im just wondering, what would YOU do in case of a zombie attack? personally i would find a couple aa-12s and a few people and just hold out somewhere with some doritos and mountain dew.
Me and a friend have talked about this alot, and I have a perfect plan. I'll go into the basics, but not the entire thing, as there is a chance of zombies retaining memory in the process of zombification, and I don't want everyone to find out.
Basically, I am going to go find a farmhouse, cuz every farmer and their mums are packing where I live, slash and burn the trees around the farm, start planting crops to keep myself (and the ladies ) alive, and er.... enjoy all the free time I have (with the ladies.)
My plan Is to go to my local school (15 minute drive), even though I don't go there anymore. It's secure, It's got a gate, fence, security camera's, lots of wood from tables, metal from the legs. Lots of houses outside with cars with fuel, houses have food and there Is a tescos about within a ten minute walk and a Coop you can get to in two minute walk.
There are two kinds of people in a Zombie Apoc, those who plan, survive and fight back! and.. people like you, well, we call them zombie dinner.
If you are careful, you will hardly have to ever fight zombies. If we assume they're slow but as strong as people, I doubt most people could kill a zombie and It wouldn't be like games or films. Defence would be all that mattered.
Lord-loss? It doesnt protect him, zombies have too many buildings to hide behind, He would turn the corner and be zombie food. I am plenty protected, as zombies have no body heat, where I live has the coldest winter in the U.S. and because I burned down the trees, would be able to see zombies coming from miles away.
Lord-Loss wrote:If you are careful, you will hardly have to ever fight zombies. If we assume they're slow but as strong as people, I doubt most people could kill a zombie and It wouldn't be like games or films. Defence would be all that mattered.
yes, but that takes all the fun out of things! i mean, who wouldn't want to shoot a zombie in the head with an aa-12?
Lord-Loss wrote:If you are careful, you will hardly have to ever fight zombies. If we assume they're slow but as strong as people, I doubt most people could kill a zombie and It wouldn't be like games or films. Defence would be all that mattered.
yes, but that takes all the fun out of things! i mean, who wouldn't want to shoot a zombie in the head with an aa-12?
You would sing a different tune the moment your friends got bitten, trust me.
Lord-Loss wrote:If you are careful, you will hardly have to ever fight zombies. If we assume they're slow but as strong as people, I doubt most people could kill a zombie and It wouldn't be like games or films. Defence would be all that mattered.
yes, but that takes all the fun out of things! i mean, who wouldn't want to shoot a zombie in the head with an aa-12?
You would sing a different tune the moment your friends got bitten, trust me.
going back to the aa-12s i picked up previously... maybe ill pick up some grenade launcher rounds too , oh and btw, my freinds would have aa-12s too
I wouldn't, that gun is too loud and it would attract more, plus would would have to be close in order for it to be effective. I will just ride my bike through the waterways all the way to the ocean and hitch a ride on a boat some where. In reality my only weapons I would have are my two baseball bats. Unless I pick up gun somewhere on the floor or something.
First I would gather all my camping gear and MRE's. Then I would rush to the nearest gunshop (I don't think my 9mm is enough to stop the undead) and grab a hunting rifle and several shotguns. One shotgun for myself and more in case I run into other survivors. Then run for the hills, find a nice defensable position in the mountains and hope that the zombies die of starvation like in 28 Days Later
I would head for Nevada. The plan would be to assemble a group of survivors, and move around the state in a convoy of RV's, Pickups, and SUV's.
I choose Nevada for several reasons. It is a large state, but has many uninhabited areas with long lines of sight. Other than a few large cities, there are many smaller, easy to raid, settlements. Many of these settlements would have supplies of ammo and quality firearms, because of the lax gun laws in the state. Also, due to the heat, water would be able to distill, and it would be entirely possible to make use of solar energy. If the undead are of the undead variety, it might also be able to smell them at a distance, and with proper wind conditions. Nevada's natural heat would make rotting flesh especially pungent.
Long term, the plan would be to protect some Eggheads while they engineered a cure. Precautions would be taken to avert any 'horror movie' scenarios.
i would first grab my baseball bat, hockey stick, maybe a shovel and grab a plastic strom trooper kilt (will expalin in detail below). and grab my ute and fill it up with some food.
then i would drive to my nearst bunnings warehouse for some PVC pipe and more suplies (like tools, flameable things, stakes). i will use the PVC pipes to make the ST armour stronger and bite proof against the zombies.
then head to the army base that is 5 minutes away from bunnings and hope to find some guns. If im lucky i will find some and ammo.
Then I will head into the countryside, hoping to find a defendable position and other survivors. When i find this defendable poistion i will use a shovel to dig holes and place the starkes in for a nasty surprise for the zombies. then wait out the zombie apoc or move on when the position is comprimised or i run out of food in the area and need to search for more.
Use flameable things to burn to create a zombie distraction.
Lord-Loss wrote:Use the "Search" before posting a topic..
My plan Is to go to my local school (15 minute drive), even though I don't go there anymore. It's secure, It's got a gate, fence, security camera's, lots of wood from tables, metal from the legs. Lots of houses outside with cars with fuel, houses have food and there Is a tescos about within a ten minute walk and a Coop you can get to in two minute walk.
There are two kinds of people in a Zombie Apoc, those who plan, survive and fight back! and.. people like you, well, we call them zombie dinner.
I disagree, we need a new zombie thread at least once every month.
Others think of this as Zombie attack. I like to think of this as the zombie olympics. So many events. shooting for distance, close action shooting. We have kids events planned, some dog retrievals, and even old west style events (stage coach defense with a double barreled scat gun is the current favorite). After watching deadliest warrior, we're thinking of staging our own Al Capone vs. Jesse James competition, now with live (sort of) subjects!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cheese Elemental wrote:I'd sit back and watch the Australian wildlife rip 'em apart.
5 years after Zombiepocalypse, Australia is a world superpower. They form an alliance with the Frazzled's Republic O Texeasandnearbyparts and divide up the world. Frazzled takes to wearing purple togas and calling himself Augustus...
mebobsayhi9 wrote: personally i would find a couple aa-12s
Oh alright, I guess I'll just find myself a high powered military grade rifle. You know what, maybe I'll stumble into an of Tiger tank that can shoots lasers and transforms into a large robot named Megatron. . .
But in all honesty, I'd probably sit around for a while, maybe just accept it. The minute they break through the door however, I'll start to panic and scale out my window. I'll run towards my car, only I'll forget the keys. I jump a nearby low metal fence in panic and head towards the man made lake, only to find zombie ducks in it. They will peck at my body until I'm dead, then return I shall. Come Zombie Christmas, I'll be eating duck. . .lots of duck.
The BBC science magazine:'FOCUS' actually did an article on how to survive an armageddon of various different types, including: the world falling apart, robot uprising, giant monster attack, sentient plants (think day of the triffids), alien invasion and zombie attack. I'll type out the part of the article that concerns zombies:
Focus Magazine wrote:Zombie Apocalypse
Scenario: You wake up in the morning to find that nearly everyone you know and many you don't have been turned into walking cadavers. Worse, they all seem to have aquired a ravenous appetite for human flesh. Worse still, one bit from your old neighbour is all it takes to make you join the hordes of the undead. Any ideas?
Reality: If you think the scenario is something science can't possibly have contemplated then think again. In August, Dr Robert Smith? (the question-mark really is part of his surname), at the university of Ottawa, Canada, led a mathematical study to model the spread of a zombie plauge. They looked at three strategies: quarantining the zombies, trying to cure them, and attacking them.
"We were suprised to discover that quarantine doesn't help much at all," says Dr Smith?. "What you end up with is a bunch of zombies in quarantine and all the humans dead."
Trying to cure those infected with the plauge fared little better - with just a few humans left facing an overwhelming undead horde. "The best strategy is impulsive attack," says Dr Smith?. "Not just destroying the zombies, but destroying them over and over again, each time with an increasing force."
While the military would try to minimise civilian casualties in such attacks, difficult decisions may have to be made. "If the military advice was that wiping out a populated area was essential, to avoid greater loss of life later, polititians should take that advice," says Nick Pope, a former MoD employee who now commentates on defence issues.
Guidlines for the individual citizen facing the living dead are simple: leg it. There are no multiple kill bonuses in this game - survival is your priority and your attackers are slow moving. Recommended kit is the humble crowbar: excellent for dealing with any locked doors that block your path, and equally handy for cracking heads should you wind up in a corner.
There we have it then, let the military deal with it. Boring I know...
Apparantly, thats what scientists do in their spare time.
reaaaaching for that tiny bit of gun nut in me....
I own a small collection of WWII rifles and a few other guns.
I would grab my M1 garand, my SKS, and my mossberg 500, throw a dufflebag full of ammo into my 4runner, and head to the nearest costco.
why costco?
fortress-like structure, steel reinfored. I would grab one of the many forklifts inside, and lift freezer cases and block all of the doors.
there is enough perishable and non perishable food in there to last at LEAST a year. There are cleaning supplies, medical supplies, supplies to be used as weapons, to build, etc. They have generators there, both for power AND for sale. Fuel stores for the forklifts and the generators. Enough space to not go stir crazy, ride bikes around, etc.
Roof access.
what more do you need?
EDIT: I have to add this...I didn't think I would need to add this much detail, but most people here would DIE in a zombie apocalypse from what i have been reading...
on all door seams there would be plastic, sealed with tape. I would be using air purifiers that are in all costcos over the air vents, and near where I cook. Zombies can smell you, so you would need to make the place air tight, except for ventilation.
Costcos also have loads of welding supplies. On the roof I would weld up a metal bar system to deter outer roof access, I would get the metal from the 20 foot high shelves that fill the store. Also, well all latches and door shut, if you need to leave, you are doing it from the roof...but you would not need to leave. My plan is foolpoof. I have spent literally HOURS and hours with a friend planning this.
and this is my idea...if I see you at costco during the zombie apocalypse, I'm going to kick you out, unless you want to join forces....I don't trust people in crisis situations....
mebobsayhi9 wrote: personally i would find a couple aa-12s
Oh alright, I guess I'll just find myself a high powered military grade rifle. You know what, maybe I'll stumble into an of Tiger tank that can shoots lasers and transforms into a large robot named Megatron. . .
+1
I just love how in these types of threads, people seem to think that Mg42's and Law's ect ect will just by lying around just waiting to be picked up. And that gun shops will be giving away free firearms to anyone who walks in the door.
Besides, here in America, we wouldnt even have to use our military to kill the zombies!! We would just send in our guard dogs.....
mebobsayhi9 wrote: personally i would find a couple aa-12s
Oh alright, I guess I'll just find myself a high powered military grade rifle. You know what, maybe I'll stumble into an of Tiger tank that can shoots lasers and transforms into a large robot named Megatron. . .
+1
I just love how in these types of threads, people seem to think that Mg42's and Law's ect ect will just by lying around just waiting to be picked up. And that gun shops will be giving away free firearms to anyone who walks in the door.
Besides, here in America, we wouldnt even have to use our military to kill the zombies!! We would just send in our guard dogs.....
Actually I would hope the LAWs would not just be lying around. Wouldn't that mean that the guys manning them didn't make it?
Frankly I am not concerned. I'm with the weiner dogs. We're here to help.
'Acquire' a truck. Drive to an armoury that I know the location of. Pick up rifles and ammo. Head to nearest supermarket to fill said truck with non-perishable supplies. Head to Army+Navy stores to pick up survival equipment. Drive south and 'acquire' a boat of some sort (doesn't have to be huge), hopefully meeting other survivors along the way. Sail to the Isle of White. Exterminate Undead population of Isle of White. Rebuild a military society from there. Send frequent foraging parties to the mainland to forage for supplies.
CadianXV wrote:'Acquire' a truck. Drive to an armoury that I know the location of. Pick up rifles and ammo. Head to nearest supermarket to fill said truck with non-perishable supplies. Head to Army+Navy stores to pick up survival equipment.
Drive south and 'acquire' a boat of some sort (doesn't have to be huge), hopefully meeting other survivors along the way. Sail to the Isle of White. Exterminate Undead population of Isle of White. Rebuild a military society from there.
Send frequent foraging parties to the mainland to forage for supplies.
Sorted!
How do you know 5,000 people won't be trying to do the same thing?
I have my heavily armored hummer ready. iamgince a bulldozer combined with hummer and flame turret.
then i drive to my undisclosed location to my fortress.
Then i only allow the smartest and strongest into my society.
AA-12's arent even in production yet, where do you plan on finding them? And empty they weigh 11 lbs, almost 15 when loaded with a drum. Undisciplined fire control means you and your buddies will be out of ammo on day one or two, because shot gun ammo is heavy you cant carry/haul much with you.
For me, I'd take over one of the nearby super max prisons. Use the non infected inmates to clear out the infected in exchange for freedom. Larger prisons have generators, medical facilities, very solid security measures, armories with a moderate amount of ammunition, tools/workshops- and a water source. People forget most municipal water supplies are gonna end once the lights go out.
We may be a little constrained by our gun laws, but at least our forbears knew how to defend a property from hordes of scum.
Mall, farm, no thankyou. I will get together a few uninfected and head to Caenarvon or Warwick Castle, or even the Tower of London at a pinch.
Good king Edward knew how to build a fortress, the above fortress was designed to hold against armed living Welsh peasants with a minimum effective garrison of only 11, so the undead hordes should be a doddle especially once you back up your farmers shotguns and motorcycle helmets with some mail from the armoury and a nice large poleaxe.
Orlanth wrote:We may be a little constrained by our gun laws, but at least our forbears knew how to defend a property from hordes of scum.
Mall, farm, no thankyou. I will get together a few uninfected and head to Caenarvon or Warwick Castle, or even the Tower of London at a pinch.
Good king Edward knew how to build a fortress, the above fortress was designed to hold against armed living Welsh peasants with a minimum effective garrison of only 11, so the undead hordes should be a doddle especially once you back up your farmers shotguns and motorcycle helmets with some mail from the armoury and a nice large poleaxe.
Orlanth wins the thread. Game, set, match. Now off to plot how to steal a plane and make it to a Welsh castle, while eating queso and keeping weiner dogs from chewing on the throttle.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Smack, here I am a Texan and thinking about fortresses in Europe. I see your welsh caslte and raise you... The ALAMO!
Of course, we might have to stop along the way at another Alamo. remember your friendly waitstaff is fully prepared in the event of a Zombie outbreak (this is my absolutely favorite theater)
I will hold out where I live for as long as possible so as to let all the impulsive "go grab guns and load up the truck" types to get killed and stop being a potential problem for me (I live in flats, so I would destroy the ground floor stairs, and possibly the 1st floor stairs too).
Then depending on how many zombies there are around, I will either drive straight to the coast, or stop off at the supermarket over the road for food etc. I may then go and join Orlanth in his castle, or head for one of the many islands off the coast of the UK.
Although I have some serious doubt as to the numbers of zombies that can be generated. Most accounts have people who are bitten taking about 12-16 hours to go from bitten to "zombie making death coma". However, since zombies tend to attack until their prey is dead (and they are having a good ol' munch on them), I don't think that many people will actually make it into zombies, as they will be killed before they are far enough along the path of infection to be reanimated.
SilverMK2 wrote:I will hold out where I live for as long as possible so as to let all the impulsive "go grab guns and load up the truck" types to get killed and stop being a potential problem for me (I live in flats, so I would destroy the ground floor stairs, and possibly the 1st floor stairs too).
Then depending on how many zombies there are around, I will either drive straight to the coast, or stop off at the supermarket over the road for food etc. I may then go and join Orlanth in his castle, or head for one of the many islands off the coast of the UK.
Although I have some serious doubt as to the numbers of zombies that can be generated. Most accounts have people who are bitten taking about 12-16 hours to go from bitten to "zombie making death coma". However, since zombies tend to attack until their prey is dead (and they are having a good ol' munch on them), I don't think that many people will actually make it into zombies, as they will be killed before they are far enough along the path of infection to be reanimated.
Although that is just for a kind of plague zombie, the radiation zombies are much more dangerous, as they don't even have to be killed/bitten by another zombie to come back as a zombie.
Frazzie the Alamo isnt a real castle, it will need perpetual firepower to hold, so bring along plenty more ammo.
Frankly you ought to look across the Atlantic still, but forget our castles, there might not want to share the resources no matter how much ammo you have.
Grab your Texans and get y'all to France.
Lovely chateau ripe for the picking. You septics really dont know what you are missing, having never had the pleasure of taking territory away from the French. You shouldn't have too many problems, but if things get difficult call us, or the Germans, and we will be happy to provide you with a few tips.
SilverMK2 wrote:Although that is just for a kind of plague zombie, the radiation zombies are much more dangerous, as they don't even have to be killed/bitten by another zombie to come back as a zombie.
Vis the zombies in (I believe) the Romero films.
Wait whats a rad zombie? Theirs undead (alien induced) zombies, and virus zombies. Whats a rad zombie-a former surfer?
SilverMK2 wrote:Although that is just for a kind of plague zombie, the radiation zombies are much more dangerous, as they don't even have to be killed/bitten by another zombie to come back as a zombie.
Vis the zombies in (I believe) the Romero films.
Correct you are Silver,in the Romero films anyone who dies,for whatever reason (excluding having their brains blown out/destroyed),will reanimate and attack the living.
Now as to the OPs question.
This is one of my favorite topics,and my brother,friends and I have discussed "plans" for such a situation numerous times,basicly since my Brother (and several other friends/family memebers) work in the medical field,we are to contact each other at the first signs of "trouble",at that point we make our way to one of two rural areas,on wich family has property (homes,supplys,water,generators,etc.),with no one around for miles and lots of open "killing ground".
Getting to these locations would be the most difficult part,as I live 10 minutes from Atlanta (sure to fall apart very quickly),getting out of this area and "on the road"quickly is key to my plan working.
As for provisions on the road,I own 3 handguns + a shotgun,have plenty of ammo,and ever since going through Huricane Katrina,I keep LOTS of bottled water & canned food in the home,along with first aid supplies.
So...not a "great" plan,lots of variables that could surely go wrong...but it's what I have thus far.
Orlanth wrote:Frazzie the Alamo isnt a real castle, it will need perpetual firepower to hold, so bring along plenty more ammo.
Orly thats its charm, you are talking to a Texan here...
If I were really worried there's four other missions in San Antonio (the Alamo was actually one of a string of missions here). Some have been restored and are fully secured. If it can keep out native hostiles it should work for zombies. There's at least one with all walls restored and really cool iron doors. You'd have to be zombie hercules to get through it. Plus the walls are low enough to drop a ladder down and go scavening.
Here is is. Impgrenable against Comanches and Apaches. Good enough for me. This is a picture fo the church. You can see some of the wall on the left with stables on the inside.
http://www.nps.gov/saan/historyculture/sanjosehistory1.htm
SilverMK2 wrote:Although that is just for a kind of plague zombie, the radiation zombies are much more dangerous, as they don't even have to be killed/bitten by another zombie to come back as a zombie.
Vis the zombies in (I believe) the Romero films.
Wait whats a rad zombie? Theirs undead (alien induced) zombies, and virus zombies. Whats a rad zombie-a former surfer?
In Romeros "Night of the living Dead",the "reason" given for undead reanimation is radiation from a destroyed space probe.
SilverMK2 wrote:Although that is just for a kind of plague zombie, the radiation zombies are much more dangerous, as they don't even have to be killed/bitten by another zombie to come back as a zombie.
Vis the zombies in (I believe) the Romero films.
Wait whats a rad zombie? Theirs undead (alien induced) zombies, and virus zombies. Whats a rad zombie-a former surfer?
In Romeros "Night of the living Dead",the "reason" given for undead reanimation is radiation from a destroyed space probe.
Gotcha the alien undead ones. They're easy. Its really zombielympics with them. I have 4,000 rounds of .22LR and two scoped (and slowly softening up SWMBO for a competition level purchas) rifles for them.
Orlanth wrote:We may be a little constrained by our gun laws, but at least our forbears knew how to defend a property from hordes of scum.
Mall, farm, no thankyou. I will get together a few uninfected and head to Caenarvon or Warwick Castle, or even the Tower of London at a pinch.
Good king Edward knew how to build a fortress, the above fortress was designed to hold against armed living Welsh peasants with a minimum effective garrison of only 11, so the undead hordes should be a doddle especially once you back up your farmers shotguns and motorcycle helmets with some mail from the armoury and a nice large poleaxe.
Too much wall to defend, in a swarm situation, even the slowest, dumbest zombies could climb on top of each other over those walls. More people to guard the walls means more people to betray you and possibly to go bat gak crazy.
Mistress of minis wrote:AA-12's arent even in production yet, where do you plan on finding them? And empty they weigh 11 lbs, almost 15 when loaded with a drum. Undisciplined fire control means you and your buddies will be out of ammo on day one or two, because shot gun ammo is heavy you cant carry/haul much with you.
For me, I'd take over one of the nearby super max prisons. Use the non infected inmates to clear out the infected in exchange for freedom. Larger prisons have generators, medical facilities, very solid security measures, armories with a moderate amount of ammunition, tools/workshops- and a water source. People forget most municipal water supplies are gonna end once the lights go out.
Prison would be waaay to risky. You think that all of those serial rapist cannabals in a SUPER MAX prison would just vacate and let you take over? ummm...no.
Orlanth wrote:Frazzie the Alamo isnt a real castle, it will need perpetual firepower to hold, so bring along plenty more ammo.
Orly thats its charm, you are talking to a Texan here...
If I were really worried there's four other missions in San Antonio (the Alamo was actually one of a string of missions here). Some have been restored and are fully secured. If it can keep out native hostiles it should work for zombies. There's at least one with all walls restored and really cool iron doors. You'd have to be zombie hercules to get through it. Plus the walls are low enough to drop a ladder down and go scavening.
Here is is. Impgrenable against Comanches and Apaches. Good enough for me. This is a picture fo the church. You can see some of the wall on the left with stables on the inside.
http://www.nps.gov/saan/historyculture/sanjosehistory1.htm
Assuming the classic vast hordes of zombies you might have problems of the dead clambering over the dead and reaching the tops of the walls. Like you said, those walls are low.
Orlanth wrote:Assuming the classic vast hordes of zombies you might have problems of the dead clambering over the dead and reaching the tops of the walls. Like you said, those walls are low.
IG_urban wrote:Too much wall to defend, in a swarm situation, even the slowest, dumbest zombies could climb on top of each other over those walls.
Orlanth wrote:Frazzie the Alamo isnt a real castle, it will need perpetual firepower to hold, so bring along plenty more ammo.
Orly thats its charm, you are talking to a Texan here...
If I were really worried there's four other missions in San Antonio (the Alamo was actually one of a string of missions here). Some have been restored and are fully secured. If it can keep out native hostiles it should work for zombies. There's at least one with all walls restored and really cool iron doors. You'd have to be zombie hercules to get through it. Plus the walls are low enough to drop a ladder down and go scavening.
Here is is. Impgrenable against Comanches and Apaches. Good enough for me. This is a picture fo the church. You can see some of the wall on the left with stables on the inside.
http://www.nps.gov/saan/historyculture/sanjosehistory1.htm
Assuming the classic vast hordes of zombies you might have problems of the dead clambering over the dead and reaching the tops of the walls. Like you said, those walls are low.
Admittedly my zombie movie intake is somewhat limited, but I've not seen that as an issue previously. They were not able to get onto the roof in Dawn of the Dead or Shawn of the Dead. Worse to worse the missions have a "keep" aspect of the main chapel wherein we could fall back to if needed. They are substantially higher and were designed for last ditch defense. The chapel would also be easier to defend with very limited points of entry and sniper positions available.
by the look of that castle there look to be multiple towers. If this becomes a problem just retire to one of the keeps.
IG_urban wrote:yes then you are stuck for good. you will just starve.
1. ies starve. Texans adapt and overcome.
2. Every good Texan who's ever lived near the coast and hurricane season will have sufficient supplies. Sadly, the zombie games won't last forever, and we'll have to go back to work.
3. There's another option...long pig barbeque. Just saying.
Orlanth wrote:Assuming the classic vast hordes of zombies you might have problems of the dead clambering over the dead and reaching the tops of the walls. Like you said, those walls are low.
IG_urban wrote:Too much wall to defend, in a swarm situation, even the slowest, dumbest zombies could climb on top of each other over those walls.
readings posts helps.
Zombie cicrus acrobats?
Climbing over bodies to get to the top of a twelve foot wall in level ground is one thing, having enough bodies to fill a moat then reach the top of a thirty foot wall (minimum) plus battlements is something else entirely.
Who needs to eat people when you can hit a surplus store and grab a few cases of MREs? Oh, wait...maybe people taste better.
is it just me or do I smell BACON! Zombie, the other other other white meat.
Yea, as noted I'd likely stop at Alamo Drafthouse. They have pizza, burgers, and like 100 different types of beer plus wine. Check out some movies, eat some real buttered popcorn and a Blue Hawai pizza, load up the vehicle with munchies and head for the Mission. Academy sports is along the way. if not completely looted could hold up there instead (but I figure things are going to be completely looted).
Orlanth wrote:Assuming the classic vast hordes of zombies you might have problems of the dead clambering over the dead and reaching the tops of the walls. Like you said, those walls are low.
IG_urban wrote:Too much wall to defend, in a swarm situation, even the slowest, dumbest zombies could climb on top of each other over those walls.
readings posts helps.
Zombie cicrus acrobats?
Climbing over bodies to get to the top of a twelve foot wall in level ground is one thing, having enough bodies to fill a moat then reach the top of a thirty foot wall (minimum) plus battlements is something else entirely.
ever been in a mosh pit?
Automatically Appended Next Post: also, you are still dealing with the fact that you have ACRES of unguarded wall.
IG_urban wrote:also, you are still dealing with the fact that you have ACRES of unguarded wall.
I don't think I've ever seen a zombie film with either 1; a climbing zombie or 2; an acrobatic zombie.
Again a baseline for the zombie would be useful. The fast zombie may have enough instinct to climb/swarm a wall, but I don't think a shambling zombie would.
I've been in hundreds of mosh pits...but I don't see the connection between them and the ability of the undead to scale walls.
Now,I would suppose that should the bodies of eliminated dead pile high enough,the animated dead could perhaps climb the pile of their "fallen comrades" and reach the tops of a high wall,but that would be one hell of a big pile of bodies.
Now,concerning unguarded walls,I'd say that would be something you would definatly try to avoid,of course if you have the manpower,you post guards/snipers,if you have the resources,motion sensors,video survalence equipment...anti personal mines every 20 feet.
There are several different types of zombies, of which I feel need to be addressed.
Romero "Shamblers": Slow but unstoppable. Virus spread variable. When you die, you turn into one, no matter what.
New Age "Ragers": Quick and deadly. Virus spreads in seconds. Can only be infected by body fluid transmission.
And one that I feel should be mentioned for the sake of arguement, since it seems to share the basic theme of zombie comics.
The Crossed: A virus that turns off the part of your brain that keeps you from acting out your sickest desires. Rape, murder, torture, arson, everything you may have thought about, even hidden away in the deepest, darkest part of your mind, you will act out. You cease to feel pain, or anything really. All you want is to keep the cycle of madness going. Virus spreads from body fluid contact.
The only upside to this, is that they aren't that bright, and won't wear clothes in cold environments.
My plan, in order of type:
Romero Plan: Stay at home. Destroy steps, board up garage. There is a river in my back yard that can be used to get water for as long as it keeps from going dry. Water can be boiled, making several risky trips to fill up water containres. I have animals if the canned food runs out. Sit up on the roof, sniping zombie, but tending to just wait it out for the most part.
New Age: Board up windows and destroy steps. Gather as much water as possible from river before it drys up.
Wait it out in my attic.
Crossed: Go home, get .22, get KA-BAR, and proceed to run like hell. It's the only way to survive them.
I personally would prefer a seige/defence scenario rather then an "on the move" approach that you tend to see.
Seige Plan:
Stage One: Remain indoors. Defned defend defend.
Stage Two: Pack up shop. Taking essential tools. Axe, crowbar, sledgehammer, claw hammer, saws, nails, wrech, flashlights, pocket knife.
Essentials. Water bottles, canned goods.
Weapons: .22 long rifle (my parents finally bought me one to practice for the rifle team with!), KA-BAR, Bayonet, other assorted knives.
get to my high school. Break in. Steal keys to bus depot. using stolen buses, make a defensive barricade. Using axe and saws, slowly but surely remove nearby trees to be used for even more wall building.
Break into rifle range, steal the .22s and get up onto one of the roofs of the school (three floors.) use this as prime sniping spot. Wait it out, venturing past barricades to look for survivors/scavenge.
I can use the football and other athletic feilds to plan food if need be, as well as the gym and weight room to keep fit. Library to do some learnin while I'm it.
IG_urban wrote:also, you are still dealing with the fact that you have ACRES of unguarded wall.
I don't think I've ever seen a zombie film with either 1; a climbing zombie or 2; an acrobatic zombie.
Again a baseline for the zombie would be useful. The fast zombie may have enough instinct to climb/swarm a wall, but I don't think a shambling zombie would.
Andrew
FITZZ wrote: I've been in hundreds of mosh pits...but I don't see the connection between them and the ability of the undead to scale walls.
Now,I would suppose that should the bodies of eliminated dead pile high enough,the animated dead could perhaps climb the pile of their "fallen comrades" and reach the tops of a high wall,but that would be one hell of a big pile of bodies.
Now,concerning unguarded walls,I'd say that would be something you would definatly try to avoid,of course if you have the manpower,you post guards/snipers,if you have the resources,motion sensors,video survalence equipment...anti personal mines every 20 feet.
READ IT
Unless you have guards, and even IF you have guards. A walled fortress is bad news bears. Having a roof is the thing that is lacking. If they climb on top of your building, your fine, if they make it over your walls, your screwed. I would rather be safe than sorry.
It's neat that you have been to hundreds of mosh pits. And if you cannot see the connection between a mosh pit, in which I have seen people larger than myself jump into/on top of, and have seen people literally climb on top of other people with ease, and a mob of zombies, then I don't know man....
If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days. So in a good scenario you would probably have around 1500-5000, but on a crowded piece of land like the UK, in an area like that, probably more like 20,000. Are you going to tell me that you would find it completely impossible for them to scale the walls? Think......a layer of 2 or 3 "bodies" or trampled bodies, from the sheer weight and mass pressing towards the wall, then climbing on top of other zombies....you are already talking about 10-15 feet. It's only a matter of time. The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls....
I dunno man... I will stick with Costco.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:There are several different types of zombies, of which I feel need to be addressed.
Romero "Shamblers": Slow but unstoppable. Virus spread variable. When you die, you turn into one, no matter what.
New Age "Ragers": Quick and deadly. Virus spreads in seconds. Can only be infected by body fluid transmission.
And one that I feel should be mentioned for the sake of arguement, since it seems to share the basic theme of zombie comics.
The Crossed: A virus that turns off the part of your brain that keeps you from acting out your sickest desires. Rape, murder, torture, arson, everything you may have thought about, even hidden away in the deepest, darkest part of your mind, you will act out. You cease to feel pain, or anything really. All you want is to keep the cycle of madness going. Virus spreads from body fluid contact.
The only upside to this, is that they aren't that bright, and won't wear clothes in cold environments.
My plan, in order of type:
Romero Plan: Stay at home. Destroy steps, board up garage. There is a river in my back yard that can be used to get water for as long as it keeps from going dry. Water can be boiled, making several risky trips to fill up water containres. I have animals if the canned food runs out. Sit up on the roof, sniping zombie, but tending to just wait it out for the most part.
New Age: Board up windows and destroy steps. Gather as much water as possible from river before it drys up.
Wait it out in my attic.
Crossed: Go home, get .22, get KA-BAR, and proceed to run like hell. It's the only way to survive them.
I personally would prefer a seige/defence scenario rather then an "on the move" approach that you tend to see.
Seige Plan:
Stage One: Remain indoors. Defned defend defend.
Stage Two: Pack up shop. Taking essential tools. Axe, crowbar, sledgehammer, claw hammer, saws, nails, wrech, flashlights, pocket knife.
Essentials. Water bottles, canned goods.
Weapons: .22 long rifle (my parents finally bought me one to practice for the rifle team with!), KA-BAR, Bayonet, other assorted knives.
get to my high school. Break in. Steal keys to bus depot. using stolen buses, make a defensive barricade. Using axe and saws, slowly but surely remove nearby trees to be used for even more wall building.
Break into rifle range, steal the .22s and get up onto one of the roofs of the school (three floors.) use this as prime sniping spot. Wait it out, venturing past barricades to look for survivors/scavenge.
I can use the football and other athletic feilds to plan food if need be, as well as the gym and weight room to keep fit. Library to do some learnin while I'm it.
I ahve alot of time on my hands.
oh...and the ZSG, common sense, and EVERY ZOMBIE MOVIE, have proven the barricading yourself in a house is the worst idea of all time.
IG_urban wrote:
If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days. So in a good scenario you would probably have around 1500-5000, but on a crowded piece of land like the UK, in an area like that, probably more like 20,000. Are you going to tell me that you would find it completely impossible for them to scale the walls? Think......a layer of 2 or 3 "bodies" or trampled bodies, from the sheer weight and mass pressing towards the wall, then climbing on top of other zombies....you are already talking about 10-15 feet. It's only a matter of time. The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls....
Why do you assume that all zombies would have super-senses or something?
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:There are several different types of zombies, of which I feel need to be addressed.
Romero "Shamblers": Slow but unstoppable. Virus spread variable. When you die, you turn into one, no matter what.
New Age "Ragers": Quick and deadly. Virus spreads in seconds. Can only be infected by body fluid transmission.
And one that I feel should be mentioned for the sake of arguement, since it seems to share the basic theme of zombie comics.
The Crossed: A virus that turns off the part of your brain that keeps you from acting out your sickest desires. Rape, murder, torture, arson, everything you may have thought about, even hidden away in the deepest, darkest part of your mind, you will act out. You cease to feel pain, or anything really. All you want is to keep the cycle of madness going. Virus spreads from body fluid contact.
The only upside to this, is that they aren't that bright, and won't wear clothes in cold environments.
My plan, in order of type:
Romero Plan: Stay at home. Destroy steps, board up garage. There is a river in my back yard that can be used to get water for as long as it keeps from going dry. Water can be boiled, making several risky trips to fill up water containres. I have animals if the canned food runs out. Sit up on the roof, sniping zombie, but tending to just wait it out for the most part.
New Age: Board up windows and destroy steps. Gather as much water as possible from river before it drys up.
Wait it out in my attic.
Crossed: Go home, get .22, get KA-BAR, and proceed to run like hell. It's the only way to survive them.
I personally would prefer a seige/defence scenario rather then an "on the move" approach that you tend to see.
Seige Plan:
Stage One: Remain indoors. Defned defend defend.
Stage Two: Pack up shop. Taking essential tools. Axe, crowbar, sledgehammer, claw hammer, saws, nails, wrech, flashlights, pocket knife.
Essentials. Water bottles, canned goods.
Weapons: .22 long rifle (my parents finally bought me one to practice for the rifle team with!), KA-BAR, Bayonet, other assorted knives.
get to my high school. Break in. Steal keys to bus depot. using stolen buses, make a defensive barricade. Using axe and saws, slowly but surely remove nearby trees to be used for even more wall building.
Break into rifle range, steal the .22s and get up onto one of the roofs of the school (three floors.) use this as prime sniping spot. Wait it out, venturing past barricades to look for survivors/scavenge.
I can use the football and other athletic feilds to plan food if need be, as well as the gym and weight room to keep fit. Library to do some learnin while I'm it.
I ahve alot of time on my hands.
oh...and the ZSG, common sense, and EVERY ZOMBIE MOVIE, have proven the barricading yourself in a house is the worst idea of all time.
That seems to be the case only when dealing with LARGE HORDES. I live in a rural area, and you have to drive about an hour to get anyplace, except the school.
So while everybody is busy trying to get to the National Guard base, or to a gunshop, I'm wating at home, taking pot shots at the occasional zombie with my .22 to keep them from massing around the house.
Alos, not every zombie movie has shown barricading yourself to be a bad idea.
Dawn of the Dead: The main chaarcter survives the night by barricading himself in a farmhouse, hiding in the basement. (not where I would hide, but still.)
Shaun of the Dead: Until the zombies attention was grabbed, they were doing pretty well.
28 Weeks Later: Until the infected found the survivors, they did fine.
And besides, zombies are only as dangerous a speople.
So a 5'10", 155 lbs person may be up against a 6'4" 210 pounder, the shorter one will have the advantage, because their body is rottting off.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IG_urban wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:There are several different types of zombies, of which I feel need to be addressed.
Romero "Shamblers": Slow but unstoppable. Virus spread variable. When you die, you turn into one, no matter what.
New Age "Ragers": Quick and deadly. Virus spreads in seconds. Can only be infected by body fluid transmission.
And one that I feel should be mentioned for the sake of arguement, since it seems to share the basic theme of zombie comics.
The Crossed: A virus that turns off the part of your brain that keeps you from acting out your sickest desires. Rape, murder, torture, arson, everything you may have thought about, even hidden away in the deepest, darkest part of your mind, you will act out. You cease to feel pain, or anything really. All you want is to keep the cycle of madness going. Virus spreads from body fluid contact.
The only upside to this, is that they aren't that bright, and won't wear clothes in cold environments.
My plan, in order of type:
Romero Plan: Stay at home. Destroy steps, board up garage. There is a river in my back yard that can be used to get water for as long as it keeps from going dry. Water can be boiled, making several risky trips to fill up water containres. I have animals if the canned food runs out. Sit up on the roof, sniping zombie, but tending to just wait it out for the most part.
New Age: Board up windows and destroy steps. Gather as much water as possible from river before it drys up.
Wait it out in my attic.
Crossed: Go home, get .22, get KA-BAR, and proceed to run like hell. It's the only way to survive them.
I personally would prefer a seige/defence scenario rather then an "on the move" approach that you tend to see.
Seige Plan:
Stage One: Remain indoors. Defned defend defend.
Stage Two: Pack up shop. Taking essential tools. Axe, crowbar, sledgehammer, claw hammer, saws, nails, wrech, flashlights, pocket knife.
Essentials. Water bottles, canned goods.
Weapons: .22 long rifle (my parents finally bought me one to practice for the rifle team with!), KA-BAR, Bayonet, other assorted knives.
get to my high school. Break in. Steal keys to bus depot. using stolen buses, make a defensive barricade. Using axe and saws, slowly but surely remove nearby trees to be used for even more wall building.
Break into rifle range, steal the .22s and get up onto one of the roofs of the school (three floors.) use this as prime sniping spot. Wait it out, venturing past barricades to look for survivors/scavenge.
I can use the football and other athletic feilds to plan food if need be, as well as the gym and weight room to keep fit. Library to do some learnin while I'm it.
I ahve alot of time on my hands.
oh...and the ZSG, common sense, and EVERY ZOMBIE MOVIE, have proven the barricading yourself in a house is the worst idea of all time.
That seems to be the case only when dealing with LARGE HORDES. I live in a rural area, and you have to drive about an hour to get anyplace, except the school.
So while everybody is busy trying to get to the National Guard base, or to a gunshop, I'm wating at home, taking pot shots at the occasional zombie with my .22 to keep them from massing around the house.
Alos, not every zombie movie has shown barricading yourself to be a bad idea.
Dawn of the Dead: The main chaarcter survives the night by barricading himself in a farmhouse, hiding in the basement. (not where I would hide, but still.)
Shaun of the Dead: Until the zombies attention was grabbed, they were doing pretty well.
28 Weeks Later: Until the infected found the survivors, they did fine in the begining
And besides, zombies are only as dangerous a speople.
So a 5'10", 155 lbs person may be up against a 6'4" 210 pounder, the shorter one will have the advantage, because their body is rottting off.
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:That seems to be the case only when dealing with LARGE HORDES. I live in a rural area, and you have to drive about an hour to get anyplace, except the school.
So while everybody is busy trying to get to the National Guard base, or to a gunshop, I'm wating at home, taking pot shots at the occasional zombie with my .22 to keep them from massing around the house.
Alos, not every zombie movie has shown barricading yourself to be a bad idea.
Dawn of the Dead: The main chaarcter survives the night by barricading himself in a farmhouse, hiding in the basement. (not where I would hide, but still.)
Shaun of the Dead: Until the zombies attention was grabbed, they were doing pretty well.
28 Weeks Later: Until the infected found the survivors, they did fine in the begining
And besides, zombies are only as dangerous a speople.
So a 5'10", 155 lbs person may be up against a 6'4" 210 pounder, the shorter one will have the advantage, because their body is rottting off.
that is ONE NIGHT
They had maybe 3 hours before the zombie's attention was sparked. And all it took was a sound from a pinball machine. it could also be a light, a sneeze, etc. then they were screwed. (one of my fav movies, btw)
yeah, and when the infected FOUND them, they got wafflepwned. hard.
once again...I'll be in my costco...you're a cool dude, I'll let you in...
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:That seems to be the case only when dealing with LARGE HORDES. I live in a rural area, and you have to drive about an hour to get anyplace, except the school.
So while everybody is busy trying to get to the National Guard base, or to a gunshop, I'm wating at home, taking pot shots at the occasional zombie with my .22 to keep them from massing around the house.
Alos, not every zombie movie has shown barricading yourself to be a bad idea.
Dawn of the Dead: The main chaarcter survives the night by barricading himself in a farmhouse, hiding in the basement. (not where I would hide, but still.)
Shaun of the Dead: Until the zombies attention was grabbed, they were doing pretty well.
28 Weeks Later: Until the infected found the survivors, they did fine in the begining
And besides, zombies are only as dangerous a speople.
So a 5'10", 155 lbs person may be up against a 6'4" 210 pounder, the shorter one will have the advantage, because their body is rottting off.
that is ONE NIGHT
They had maybe 3 hours before the zombie's attention was sparked. And all it took was a sound from a pinball machine. it could also be a light, a sneeze, etc. then they were screwed. (one of my fav movies, btw)
yeah, and when the infected FOUND them, they got wafflepwned. hard.
once again...I'll be in my costco...you're a cool dude, I'll let you in...
The survivors in 28 Weeks Later lasted several weeks, at least that's what I inferred. And beisdes, aren't you basically doing the same thing with your Costco, only differenc ebeing you have
forklifts and I have buses?
My house is multi storied, and with the stairs destroyed, the zombies can be funneled into one area for killing, or to allow myself/family to escape in another route.
And thanks for letting me. I jsut need ot find my shoppers club card.
I understand what your getting at,and you do make some good points.
I still,however belive that the undead would have a very difficult time going over fortress/castle walls.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done,after all zombies have no other distractions,so of course being single minded and tenacious,they may find a way over.
Incidently,you must have been in some pretty fething insane mosh pits for people to reach 30+ feet in the air,I've been going to shows and in mosh pits since 1985 and I've never seen anyone do that...of course,I am an "old" man now and may be a bit unfamilar with new fangled moshing techniques...pfft,you youngsters and your nutty new trends.
Mistress of minis wrote:AA-12's arent even in production yet, where do you plan on finding them? And empty they weigh 11 lbs, almost 15 when loaded with a drum. Undisciplined fire control means you and your buddies will be out of ammo on day one or two, because shot gun ammo is heavy you cant carry/haul much with you.
For me, I'd take over one of the nearby super max prisons. Use the non infected inmates to clear out the infected in exchange for freedom. Larger prisons have generators, medical facilities, very solid security measures, armories with a moderate amount of ammunition, tools/workshops- and a water source. People forget most municipal water supplies are gonna end once the lights go out.
Prison would be waaay to risky. You think that all of those serial rapist cannabals in a SUPER MAX prison would just vacate and let you take over? ummm...no.
AA-12's have been in development since the 70's(hence prototypes), only recently have they made any progress with modern metallurgy and techniques for forging them in stainless steel. They are not available for sale to the public, and are built to order(hence- custom rather than production)- as they require a Class 3 license. Same with a USAS 12. Might as well wish for a mini gun while you're at it Try going for a Saiga 12 if you want a realistic/obtainable mag fed shot gun. The ammo is still really heavy.
And, you obviously have no grasp of how a supermax prison is set up and operated. Set aside silly movie and TV notions. A supermax prison has thier inmates in a cell almost 24 hours a day. 3 showers and 3 rec periods(in a slightly larger cell) per week are the only times they get to come out. That means you could pop them one at a time. Even if they did break down thier cell door- theres multiple layers of security and picking off anyone attacking the doors is how the places are set up. Using the strengths of the facility you turn 800 guys, into a simple problem that can be dealt with 1 guy at a time. So, they may not 'let me' take over- but they wouldnt have a choice in the matter. Having worked in both of Arizonas supermax prisons, and an older prison retrofitted to hosue supermax inmates- I know the strengths and weaknesses of the systems in place and how to use them.
Besides tha AA-12,while an impressive weapon,wouldn't be very practical for "zombie control".
As Mistress of Minis already pointed out,12 gauge ammo ,in abundence, would be extreamly heavy,also,the full auto function (as with any full auto)would simply be a waste of ammo.
While firing an AA-12 into a crowd of the living would be devestating,the same does not hold true concerning zombies...with the undead your looking for well placed head shots,not massive amounts of traumatic wounds.
Now of course,as I said,I have a shotgun(Mosberg 500) and would of course be bringing it along,but only as back up/and for the knock down power.
For a primary weapon,I'd probably go with a Mini-14,.223 ammo is readily available and carrying several 20 round magazines wouldn't be to cumbersome.
I have thought this out you and a bunch of buddies go to a cosco board up the place hold out there plenty of food and CHAINSAWS!! then use some of the phones or radios to get help and get saved also on the way raid a gun store and steel a monster truck.
or re-create dead rising lol
SilverMK2 wrote:Although that is just for a kind of plague zombie, the radiation zombies are much more dangerous, as they don't even have to be killed/bitten by another zombie to come back as a zombie.
Vis the zombies in (I believe) the Romero films.
Wait whats a rad zombie? Theirs undead (alien induced) zombies, and virus zombies. Whats a rad zombie-a former surfer?
For shame... they held up in the \/\/(inchester), not on a roof, for shame.
I have seen that movie 20+ times...
Also, that Costco idea is perfect in theory, though there are quite a few variables being left out, if we want to go hollywood, I would have to say human nature would be the number one.
@Golden Eyed Scout
Ragers are just wrong, Simon Pegg would agree.
Also, the "alos" should be alas, not to nitpick, though it just sticks out to me, and fills me with rage.
You plan to hold all of that stuff? And you're what 14, 15?
The ""Romero"" (???) plan seems to be the best, though I don't see you having to worry about the river drying up. Maybe freezing up, but not drying.
------------------------
I would either a:
Join IG-Urban
OR
Grab my pistol crossbows =(
Grab my brother and rest of family, if they're all alive and kicking. (Not biting)
Head to the plaza in my area, which has a nice house that is under construction, with two stories, about 10 feet away from a local store.
I would probably just, block/destroy the means of reaching the second stories to these buildings.
Connect them with something sturdy, or just rope, and have two people hold it. =P
Stay there until things clear up a little bit, if not, run for it.
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:There are several different types of zombies, of which I feel need to be addressed.
Romero "Shamblers": Slow but unstoppable. Virus spread variable. When you die, you turn into one, no matter what.
New Age "Ragers": Quick and deadly. Virus spreads in seconds. Can only be infected by body fluid transmission.
And one that I feel should be mentioned for the sake of arguement, since it seems to share the basic theme of zombie comics.
The Crossed: A virus that turns off the part of your brain that keeps you from acting out your sickest desires. Rape, murder, torture, arson, everything you may have thought about, even hidden away in the deepest, darkest part of your mind, you will act out. You cease to feel pain, or anything really. All you want is to keep the cycle of madness going. Virus spreads from body fluid contact.
The only upside to this, is that they aren't that bright, and won't wear clothes in cold environments.
My plan, in order of type:
Romero Plan: Stay at home. Destroy steps, board up garage. There is a river in my back yard that can be used to get water for as long as it keeps from going dry. Water can be boiled, making several risky trips to fill up water containres. I have animals if the canned food runs out. Sit up on the roof, sniping zombie, but tending to just wait it out for the most part.
New Age: Board up windows and destroy steps. Gather as much water as possible from river before it drys up.
Wait it out in my attic.
Crossed: Go home, get .22, get KA-BAR, and proceed to run like hell. It's the only way to survive them.
I personally would prefer a seige/defence scenario rather then an "on the move" approach that you tend to see.
Seige Plan:
Stage One: Remain indoors. Defned defend defend.
Stage Two: Pack up shop. Taking essential tools. Axe, crowbar, sledgehammer, claw hammer, saws, nails, wrech, flashlights, pocket knife.
Essentials. Water bottles, canned goods.
Weapons: .22 long rifle (my parents finally bought me one to practice for the rifle team with!), KA-BAR, Bayonet, other assorted knives.
get to my high school. Break in. Steal keys to bus depot. using stolen buses, make a defensive barricade. Using axe and saws, slowly but surely remove nearby trees to be used for even more wall building.
Break into rifle range, steal the .22s and get up onto one of the roofs of the school (three floors.) use this as prime sniping spot. Wait it out, venturing past barricades to look for survivors/scavenge.
I can use the football and other athletic feilds to plan food if need be, as well as the gym and weight room to keep fit. Library to do some learnin while I'm it.
I ahve alot of time on my hands.
There is also the "Last Stand 2" variety. Some are fast, some are slow. some have weapons and armor, and some are dogs. They also easy to kill (depending on the type) with a few shots from any shotgun.
Me, I would get some chain mail and a fully sealed suit underneath. This along with melee weapons (one strapped to my arm to prevent me from losing it) would make me effectively immune to attack by a regular zombie. Of course, hordes would cover me so I couldn't move so I would still have to take care but I could slowly take a smaller group out.
In regards to food and such, I would get a large supply of food from stores in the area, such as Costco and Walmart and guns if available along with a boat. (not a small one) Get to a construction site a get a backhoe (along with fuel of course) and industrial steel fencing for a temporary shield later. Also get materials for concrete molds and mixers and such for the concrete.
Load supplies onto the boat and take trips to an island suitable for farming where the backhoe (for a dry moat) and the fencing come into play as a shield while I clear the island and begin construction of the wall. If other survivors are found this will make this much easier but the endgame plan is to have a concrete wall (high, like 15 or so feet) surrounding my main residence and another wall (about 15 feet tall as well) encompassing a farm, the first wall and recreation areas and dry moats about 10 feet deep around each wall (5-10 feet in front to prevent erosion and digging from creating a hole in the wall or collapsing a section of it. This along with alarms and sporadically placed emergency shelters in case of a zombie breakthrough.
The house itself would be much fortified with the supports and such and the inner sections at least being fireproof and unbreakable by zombies. Of course this all would take years to do, so the start would be hard (easier with other survivors) and would involve me traveling, surviving by my wits and armor etc... until all the supplies were at the island and I had enough stored food to last until I could start to farm.
Power would come from solar cells and entertainment would be primarily work on the wall etc... and things like Xbox, ps3, imagination, or good old 40k! (even better with another survivor!). Water would be distilled from the ocean or rain in purifiers powered by the solar panels or by fire. Food by my stores and eventually farming.
Finally, I would regularly clear out any zombies that somehow made it across the ocean with melee weapons with a longer reach such as polearms and spears, chains with sickles or ranged weapons such as crossbows (as their bolts are very reusable) bows (same reason) and guns (last resort).
Get a mechanic, a con-man, a football coach, and a producer (makes sure she's black). Give them weapons, pain pills and molotovs. Then send them through a mall, a bridge, an amusement park, a swamp town, a sugar mill, and another (bigger) bridge. Record all of this and make it into an online video game available on Steam.
You just killed the world's population in zombies.
I do hope they do make this game in the near future. I think people will buy it.
To the people suggesting that zombies attacking a fortress with a 30-40ft wall would easily be able to scale it - if you are talking about an outbreak of that scale, nowhere on the mainland will be safe at all. For a start, even for the minimum number of zombies it would take to scale a wall of that size we are talking perhaps a thousand? In all probability far more than that.
And to everyone saying "I would snipe the odd zombie as it came along" - no! The key to staying alive is to keep hidden. Shooting zombies just lets everything know where you are. It is the same tactic for any other form of defense or activity - if it is loud or visible - try not to do it - hide your sentries, conduct farming etc somewhere that it cannot be seen (say behind a giant 40ft castle wall ).
Not to mention the threat of human attackers - in a world where there is no authority besides what you make for yourself, would you rather be in a school, your house, a prison, or somewhere that has been designed especially to defend against other humans? (granted not humans with explosives, but most castles have walls more than 6ft thick, so we are looking pretty good still on the whole fortress front).
The only safer place would be an island - with a castle
And there are a number of those in the UK, so we are all good.
Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:When a Zombie attack hits here's what you do:
Get a mechanic, a con-man, a football coach, and a producer (makes sure she's black). Give them weapons, pain pills and molotovs. Then send them through a mall, a bridge, an amusement park, a swamp town, a sugar mill, and another (bigger) bridge. Record all of this and make it into an online video game available on Steam.
You just killed the world's population in zombies.
I do hope they do make this game in the near future. I think people will buy it.
-------------------
I would probably kill myself.
I live in chicago, in a crowded apartment buidling, unless I can pull of a shawn of the dead, I'm flakked.
Or just chill in my room and post on dakka and spam and say "YAKFACE CAN'T TOUCH THIS...SUCK MY...."
I should stop.
If this happened while I was in Sweden during the summer, however. I would do this.
Go here.
Wait a month or so to see if the zombies die, if not, kill myself out of boredom and loneliness.
Oh, and I would bring my Revolver, and my Tek-9 With me.
I understand what your getting at,and you do make some good points.
I still,however belive that the undead would have a very difficult time going over fortress/castle walls.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done,after all zombies have no other distractions,so of course being single minded and tenacious,they may find a way over.
Incidently,you must have been in some pretty fething insane mosh pits for people to reach 30+ feet in the air,I've been going to shows and in mosh pits since 1985 and I've never seen anyone do that...of course,I am an "old" man now and may be a bit unfamilar with new fangled moshing techniques...pfft,you youngsters and your nutty new trends.
not 30 feet dude, I never said that.
Mistress of minis wrote:AA-12's have been in development since the 70's(hence prototypes), only recently have they made any progress with modern metallurgy and techniques for forging them in stainless steel. They are not available for sale to the public, and are built to order(hence- custom rather than production)- as they require a Class 3 license. Same with a USAS 12. Might as well wish for a mini gun while you're at it Try going for a Saiga 12 if you want a realistic/obtainable mag fed shot gun. The ammo is still really heavy.
And, you obviously have no grasp of how a supermax prison is set up and operated. Set aside silly movie and TV notions. A supermax prison has thier inmates in a cell almost 24 hours a day. 3 showers and 3 rec periods(in a slightly larger cell) per week are the only times they get to come out. That means you could pop them one at a time. Even if they did break down thier cell door- theres multiple layers of security and picking off anyone attacking the doors is how the places are set up. Using the strengths of the facility you turn 800 guys, into a simple problem that can be dealt with 1 guy at a time. So, they may not 'let me' take over- but they wouldnt have a choice in the matter. Having worked in both of Arizonas supermax prisons, and an older prison retrofitted to hosue supermax inmates- I know the strengths and weaknesses of the systems in place and how to use them.
First off, your attitude is up here...and you need to bring it down. We can have a discussion without making ridiculous assumptions. You have no idea what I have done in my life. Literally, in a 25 miles radius from me, (Downtown Seattle), I could go to at least 7 different gun shops, and obtain an AA 12, a USAS 12, OR a Saiga, I have gone in and held them. They are expensive as bewbs. You are acting like a class 3 license is hard to obtain
And when you fly me down there, and I watch you do what you are proposing, DURING a zombie apocalypse...then I will get on board with your idea. Right now, especially after your long explanation, it sounds like a LOT of hassle for little return. Have fun. Ill be in Costco.
oh....grammar and spell check are your friend.
FITZZ wrote: Besides tha AA-12,while an impressive weapon,wouldn't be very practical for "zombie control".
As Mistress of Minis already pointed out,12 gauge ammo ,in abundence, would be extreamly heavy,also,the full auto function (as with any full auto)would simply be a waste of ammo.
While firing an AA-12 into a crowd of the living would be devestating,the same does not hold true concerning zombies...with the undead your looking for well placed head shots,not massive amounts of traumatic wounds.
Now of course,as I said,I have a shotgun(Mosberg 500) and would of course be bringing it along,but only as back up/and for the knock down power.
For a primary weapon,I'd probably go with a Mini-14,.223 ammo is readily available and carrying several 20 round magazines wouldn't be to cumbersome.
Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:@Frazzled
For shame... they held up in the \/\/(inchester), not on a roof, for shame.
I have seen that movie 20+ times...
Also, that Costco idea is perfect in theory, though there are quite a few variables being left out, if we want to go hollywood, I would have to say human nature would be the number one.
@Golden Eyed Scout
Ragers are just wrong, Simon Pegg would agree.
Also, the "alos" should be alas, not to nitpick, though it just sticks out to me, and fills me with rage.
You plan to hold all of that stuff? And you're what 14, 15?
The ""Romero"" (???) plan seems to be the best, though I don't see you having to worry about the river drying up. Maybe freezing up, but not drying.
------------------------
I would either a:
Join IG-Urban
OR
Grab my pistol crossbows =(
Grab my brother and rest of family, if they're all alive and kicking. (Not biting)
Head to the plaza in my area, which has a nice house that is under construction, with two stories, about 10 feet away from a local store.
I would probably just, block/destroy the means of reaching the second stories to these buildings.
Connect them with something sturdy, or just rope, and have two people hold it. =P
Stay there until things clear up a little bit, if not, run for it.
dude hell yes. I will literally discuss the piss out of the Costco thing with you....I wasted a lot of time perfecting it.
IG_urban wrote:also, you are still dealing with the fact that you have ACRES of unguarded wall.
I don't think I've ever seen a zombie film with either 1; a climbing zombie or 2; an acrobatic zombie.
Again a baseline for the zombie would be useful. The fast zombie may have enough instinct to climb/swarm a wall, but I don't think a shambling zombie would.
Andrew
I think we're leaning towards shambling zombies.
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IG_urban wrote:
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:That seems to be the case only when dealing with LARGE HORDES. I live in a rural area, and you have to drive about an hour to get anyplace, except the school.
So while everybody is busy trying to get to the National Guard base, or to a gunshop, I'm wating at home, taking pot shots at the occasional zombie with my .22 to keep them from massing around the house.
Alos, not every zombie movie has shown barricading yourself to be a bad idea.
Dawn of the Dead: The main chaarcter survives the night by barricading himself in a farmhouse, hiding in the basement. (not where I would hide, but still.)
Shaun of the Dead: Until the zombies attention was grabbed, they were doing pretty well.
28 Weeks Later: Until the infected found the survivors, they did fine in the begining
And besides, zombies are only as dangerous a speople.
So a 5'10", 155 lbs person may be up against a 6'4" 210 pounder, the shorter one will have the advantage, because their body is rottting off.
that is ONE NIGHT
They had maybe 3 hours before the zombie's attention was sparked. And all it took was a sound from a pinball machine. it could also be a light, a sneeze, etc. then they were screwed. (one of my fav movies, btw)
yeah, and when the infected FOUND them, they got wafflepwned. hard.
once again...I'll be in my costco...you're a cool dude, I'll let you in...
So will a hundred other people trying to do the same thing you are doing. One will be infected.
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Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:@Frazzled
For shame... they held up in the \/\/(inchester), not on a roof, for shame.
No no when Shawn goes to get his girlfriend. he climbs up. All the other zombies are still kicking it downstairs.
IG_urban wrote:
Too much wall to defend, in a swarm situation, even the slowest, dumbest zombies could climb on top of each other over those walls. More people to guard the walls means more people to betray you and possibly to go bat gak crazy.
For the purposes of argument I'm going for the classic shambling zombie here.
Zombies aren't/don't seem capable of cooperation to any extent so the idea that they will perform a circus act to raise some of their number to a point above a castle wall seems a little ridiculous (almost as bad as the thought of a zombie plague, but not as much fun). I would rather have a 6 to 12' thick stone wall to protect me compared to a singe concrete breeze block. Also, consider, your problems are not solely related to the undead. Referring back to the second of Romeros films, a determined human foe is going to go through your walls with minmal thought. From the pictures I can source for Costco it seems to be a steel frame construction with 'filler' walls. It also seems to have a 'no walk' roof.
In the short term, the Costco idea has lots going for it. Food & supplies.
Long term, it's is a box that requires electricity and modern amienities (eg sewers & running water) to function, no fall back bastions, no natural lighting, and no way of self support in the long term. It is not designed to house large numbers of people permanently. The roof is a liability as should the zombies get onto the roof they will simply fall through into the shop below.
Now compare.
In the short term a castle has little to recommend. There will be an effort required to initially secure it, and unless there is a cafe or such little supplies.
Long term, it is a construction of proven durability, designed with the express purpose of keeping people out, dead or alive. There will in all likelyhood be a spring or well within the walls to provide water and has considerable space to either keep livestock or grow food. It is not designed to rely on modern amienities. The castle can become self sufficient after a time. It is designed to house large numbers of people. Should the worst come to the worst there are fall back positions to consolidate to and perhaps attack back from.
Its apples and oranges.
Are you preparing short term or long term? Me, I'd rather think long term.
Cheers
Andrew
PS want an ideal place to stay, google Fort George, Scotland and have a look at the satellite plan. Okay you need a few bodies to secure it, but once you have......
First off, your attitude is up here...and you need to bring it down. We can have a discussion without making ridiculous assumptions. You have no idea what I have done in my life. Literally, in a 25 miles radius from me, (Downtown Seattle), I could go to at least 7 different gun shops, and obtain an AA 12, a USAS 12, OR a Saiga, I have gone in and held them. They are expensive as bewbs. You are acting like a class 3 license is hard to obtain
And when you fly me down there, and I watch you do what you are proposing, DURING a zombie apocalypse...then I will get on board with your idea. Right now, especially after your long explanation, it sounds like a LOT of hassle for little return. Have fun. Ill be in Costco.
oh....grammar and spell check are your friend..
"
Mr. Jerry Babar, President/CEO of Military Police Systems, Inc. (MPS, Inc.) of Piney Flats, Tennessee and developer of the AA-12 Shotgun, kindly answered my questions today, 23 Feb 2009, which I transcribed (possibly with some minor errors) as follows: "[I am returning] your call about the AA-12. By the 1986 Federal law, any [machine] guns made prior to 19 May 1986 are transferable, and there are 400,000 legal machine guns in the United States. Any [machine] guns made after 19 May 1986 are not transferable to civilians and cannot be [built by or owned (inaudible)] by civilians. And in fact, if I ever get my license up, I can assure you that I can't even have them [AA-12's]. I can't keep them in stock or transfer them, or somebody will have my license. There are 19, almost 20 [AA-12] guns built right now and they are with various military operations for evaluation, and they are involved with some of the manufacture of them [AA-12's]. Watch the Military Channel in June [2009] for the new Robot video that we just did. It is a really good 20-30 minute video. It will be under the "Ultimate Weapons" program. Also, the New Yorker magazine has a six page article on us. I appreciate you for calling. Thanks alot."
That kind of makes the veracity of your claims very dubious. 19, almost 20 of them built by 2009, and you're claiming at least 7 of them are in Seattle gunshops, rather than military testing ranges. Smells like something that needs a shovel to spread about the garden. A class 3 license itself isnt that hard to obtain, but the machine gun transfer IS.
FITZZ wrote: I've been in hundreds of mosh pits...but I don't see the connection between them and the ability of the undead to scale walls.
Now,I would suppose that should the bodies of eliminated dead pile high enough,the animated dead could perhaps climb the pile of their "fallen comrades" and reach the tops of a high wall,but that would be one hell of a big pile of bodies.
Now,concerning unguarded walls,I'd say that would be something you would definatly try to avoid,of course if you have the manpower,you post guards/snipers,if you have the resources,motion sensors,video survalence equipment...anti personal mines every 20 feet.
Unless you have guards, and even IF you have guards. A walled fortress is bad news bears. Having a roof is the thing that is lacking. If they climb on top of your building, your fine, if they make it over your walls, your screwed. I would rather be safe than sorry.
It's neat that you have been to hundreds of mosh pits. And if you cannot see the connection between a mosh pit, in which I have seen people larger than myself jump into/on top of, and have seen people literally climb on top of other people with ease, and a mob of zombies, then I don't know man....
If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days. So in a good scenario you would probably have around 1500-5000, but on a crowded piece of land like the UK, in an area like that, probably more like 20,000. Are you going to tell me that you would find it completely impossible for them to scale the walls? Think......a layer of 2 or 3 "bodies" or trampled bodies, from the sheer weight and mass pressing towards the wall, then climbing on top of other zombies....you are already talking about 10-15 feet. It's only a matter of time. The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls....
Your guides are based on US architecture fro the modern age, walls are small and made of brick. Rushing football crowds can damage walls and barriers, so zombies with FNP should be able to go a lot further.
Medieval walls however are designed all about defending against lots of people with low tech solutions.
and have seen people literally climb on top of other people with ease, and a mob of zombies, then I don't know man.... The medieval mind thought of that, the minimal usable proper defensive wall is 30ft, anything your zombies can do men at arms can do. Its tried and tested tech, zombies will not be able to scale the walls. Good castle walls will be 50ft tall with glasis at the bottom and an overhanging crenelated battlement. There is not getting over that by hand.
If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days. Another factor in medieval fortification is crew concealment, the zombies will not hear or see the defenders unless they want to be heard of seen.
Whether you should stay put and fortify or move constantly is one of the dilemmas of zombie survival. Either way you run into zombies. The best solution is a secure base with armoured mobility, so you can try both methods with relative impunity. For this modern gates will not do, only a proper castle gate or an underground installatyion will provide a proper zombie lock through which to drive your AFV on a resource recon or distraction run.
The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls.... Remember what I said about Caenarvon, the LOS cover was so good it required a round the clock minimum garrison of 11, this accounted for sleep shifts and multiple points of attack. This also meant no firearms and against an armed populace with light siege equipment. Zombies lack the needed knowledge of the Art of Siege Investment, frankly I suspect in this you and the zombies have something in common. Things can get a bit dodgy once zombies invent black powder and cannon casting, but that a long way off, and few zombies let alone board members have read Sebastian Le Prest De Vauban's seminal treatise on cracking fortresses either.
Defending a castle will be easy against unarmed zombies with no siege warfare capability, and servicable bolt action rifles can still be found in enough numbers to arm the defenders adequately over time. In fact our lack of public access to automatic weaponry might be a long term boon, ammo will go much further if you have SMLE's adn those guns are amateur bush user friendly. All in all the only real rroblem might come from panicy persons outside who want in and have explosives.
On a final note what happens if a mistake is made, some zombies get over ther walls, or the gate is not closed in time. Norammly zombies in the perimeeter is a major problem, however castles have concentric defences, towers to retreatto, if zombies come over the walls it will be a trickle not a tide. retreat back to the next gate and wait until morning then retake the walls with a careful assault supported by fire from the inner battlements. Zombies in the outer baliey have nowhere to run to nowhere to hide. Any point of defence can be taken at places where zombies cannot use their numbers, narrow chokepoints where one or two well armed defenders could hold for a time where a staple of good castle design.
I gotta agree with Mr. Orlanth that a sturdy castle would be a pretty formidable defense/home against a zombie invasion.
If you could then factor in some proper add on defenses -- oil, fire, boiling lead, UK cuisine, endless reruns of "Friends" etc etc then you could sit tight for quite some time.
PLus Zombies , whilst being slower to rot, would quickly freeze up thanks to our weather. We laugh at your notions of "climate".
FITZZ wrote: I've been in hundreds of mosh pits...but I don't see the connection between them and the ability of the undead to scale walls.
Now,I would suppose that should the bodies of eliminated dead pile high enough,the animated dead could perhaps climb the pile of their "fallen comrades" and reach the tops of a high wall,but that would be one hell of a big pile of bodies.
Now,concerning unguarded walls,I'd say that would be something you would definatly try to avoid,of course if you have the manpower,you post guards/snipers,if you have the resources,motion sensors,video survalence equipment...anti personal mines every 20 feet.
Unless you have guards, and even IF you have guards. A walled fortress is bad news bears. Having a roof is the thing that is lacking. If they climb on top of your building, your fine, if they make it over your walls, your screwed. I would rather be safe than sorry.
It's neat that you have been to hundreds of mosh pits. And if you cannot see the connection between a mosh pit, in which I have seen people larger than myself jump into/on top of, and have seen people literally climb on top of other people with ease, and a mob of zombies, then I don't know man....
If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days. So in a good scenario you would probably have around 1500-5000, but on a crowded piece of land like the UK, in an area like that, probably more like 20,000. Are you going to tell me that you would find it completely impossible for them to scale the walls? Think......a layer of 2 or 3 "bodies" or trampled bodies, from the sheer weight and mass pressing towards the wall, then climbing on top of other zombies....you are already talking about 10-15 feet. It's only a matter of time. The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls....
Your guides are based on US architecture fro the modern age, walls are small and made of brick. Rushing football crowds can damage walls and barriers, so zombies with FNP should be able to go a lot further.
Medieval walls however are designed all about defending against lots of people with low tech solutions.
and have seen people literally climb on top of other people with ease, and a mob of zombies, then I don't know man.... The medieval mind thought of that, the minimal usable proper defensive wall is 30ft, anything your zombies can do men at arms can do. Its tried and tested tech, zombies will not be able to scale the walls. Good castle walls will be 50ft tall with glasis at the bottom and an overhanging crenelated battlement. There is not getting over that by hand.
If you have a fortress, ESPECIALLY with open air areas that are going to put you, your food, and ANY OTHER LIVING THING's scent out in the breeze easily, zombies from MILES around are going to be swarming you within days. Another factor in medieval fortification is crew concealment, the zombies will not hear or see the defenders unless they want to be heard of seen.
Whether you should stay put and fortify or move constantly is one of the dilemmas of zombie survival. Either way you run into zombies. The best solution is a secure base with armoured mobility, so you can try both methods with relative impunity. For this modern gates will not do, only a proper castle gate or an underground installatyion will provide a proper zombie lock through which to drive your AFV on a resource recon or distraction run.
The whole while you and MAYBE 20 people are going to be rushing around checking all of the walls.... Remember what I said about Caenarvon, the LOS cover was so good it required a round the clock minimum garrison of 11, this accounted for sleep shifts and multiple points of attack. This also meant no firearms and against an armed populace with light siege equipment. Zombies lack the needed knowledge of the Art of Siege Investment, frankly I suspect in this you and the zombies have something in common. Things can get a bit dodgy once zombies invent black powder and cannon casting, but that a long way off, and few zombies let alone board members have read Sebastian Le Prest De Vauban's seminal treatise on cracking fortresses either.
Defending a castle will be easy against unarmed zombies with no siege warfare capability, and servicable bolt action rifles can still be found in enough numbers to arm the defenders adequately over time. In fact our lack of public access to automatic weaponry might be a long term boon, ammo will go much further if you have SMLE's adn those guns are amateur bush user friendly. All in all the only real rroblem might come from panicy persons outside who want in and have explosives.
On a final note what happens if a mistake is made, some zombies get over ther walls, the the gate is not closed in time. Norammly zombies in the perimeeter is a major problem, however castles have concentric defences, towers to retreatto, if zombies come over the walls it will be a trickle not a tide. retreat back to the next gate and wait until morning then retake the walls with a careful assault supported by fire from the inner battlements. Zombies in the outer baliey have nowhere to run to nowhere to hide.
1. Some people are taking this seriously, lets all keep this light hearted shall we and avoid snide comments.
2. Orly, I think you’re overthinking the capacity of the zombies somewhat. None of the seminal treatises on the subject – Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Shawn of the Dead (seminal treatise- ) have mirrored zombies exhibiting any sort of coherent behavior. Their typical response when the prey is outside reach is literally to shamble about slowly. Their most coherent attack appears to be to gather and bang on the door in a half hearted teenagerlike manner.
-I don’t think climbing or piling zombies is an issue. Piling up bodies would, as noted require thousands.
-Siege maneuvers-no its not going to get there. I think working a doorknob pushes the envelope for your basic zombie.
-Frankly, as our leader the Immortal Shawn has taught us, all you really need is a box of old LPs and you’re set. Getting into a castle is both highly secure and epic cool. I’ll salute you from our Texas mission version. Let the games begin!
reds8n wrote:I gotta agree with Mr. Orlanth that a sturdy castle would be a pretty formidable defense/home against a zombie invasion.
If you could then factor in some proper add on defenses -- oil, fire, boiling lead, UK cuisine, endless reruns of "Friends" etc etc then you could sit tight for quite some time.
PLus Zombies , whilst being slower to rot, would quickly freeze up thanks to our weather. We laugh at your notions of "climate".
You mean we rig up TV's on the battlements and screen episodes of Friends on continuous loop. How cruel, but will it deter zombies?
Something to add, some castle have large internal baileys. Dover is particularly impressive, not only can you divert all the resources artics from the supermarkets warehouses but you could land a fair few helicopters too. If things get really bad because some idiot forgets to shut a door, or recognises a zombie realtive and wants to let them in because 'johnny won't hurt me' you could land a helo on many of the keep roofs also and escape to the next castle.
Human error is just about the only way in for zombies.
I shoulda known you were a Remington guy!! Im surprised theres not a bayonet lug on there for you to mount your weiner dog as a CQB option
No they are more of a fire and forget weapon. If you've ever seen a weiner dog run, once you recover from the hysterical laughter, you'll definitely forget. It takes them awhile, I mean come on the Shanker's legs are 6 inches long and he's the big one...
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Orlanth wrote:Something to add, some castle have large internal baileys.
Wait castles are full of whiskey flavored coffee? Dude forget the zombie games. I am on my way...NOW.
2. Orly, I think you’re overthinking the capacity of the zombies somewhat. None of the seminal treatises on the subject – Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Shawn of the Dead (seminal treatise- ) have mirrored zombies exhibiting any sort of coherent behavior. Their typical response when the prey is outside reach is literally to shamble about slowly. Their most coherent attack appears to be to gather and bang on the door in a half hearted teenagerlike manner.
-I don’t think climbing or piling zombies is an issue. Piling up bodies would, as noted require thousands.
-Siege maneuvers-no its not going to get there. I think working a doorknob pushes the envelope for your basic zombie.
-Frankly, as our leader the Immortal Shawn has taught us, all you really need is a box of old LPs and you’re set. Getting into a castle is both highly secure and epic cool. I’ll salute you from our Texas mission version. Let the games begin!
Actually Frazzie, you are agreeing with me.
The Dreadnote wrote:Hey Orlanth, I'll chip in with wall duty if you let me in your castle
All welcome.
AndrewC wrote:
Are you preparing short term or long term? Me, I'd rather think long term.
Long term is a given, who is looking to survive for a day? Actually most of the populace to be honest are short term thinkers, but anyone who puts thought into the scenario will be drawn into longer and longer term prerspectives whenever they think about it. This is why zombie scenarios are a good mental exercise.
AndrewC wrote:
PS want an ideal place to stay, google Fort George, Scotland and have a look at the satellite plan. Okay you need a few bodies to secure it, but once you have......
Hmm, no. Those are good field defences for the gunpowder age, so a GMPG on the battlements will have perforating fire because it is a much lower firing position. However because it is based around massed fieldsd of fire it will require a hefty garrison. Scotland has some very nice castles to use, but I would rule out any design post 15th century.
Im surprised none of you guys have mentioned the obvious and entertaining way to thwart a zombie insurgency.
You grab a couple of them, just drop a noose down from your roof or wall. Then you stuff the zombie full of explosives, just a low bracity blasting agent- dont wanna have to worry about blowing your own walls up. Then you paint the top of thier head orange (spray paint, so you can see them in the mob). Then throw em back out, and set them off when convenient/amusing.
Bombies. Courtesy of having a dwarf necromancer character in 1993 ^_^
A little OT but the conversation between Mistress and IG piqued my curiosity. I had no idea that it was so easy to get a federal firearms license (FFA). Heck, I might just get one so I can buy a SAW or an old M-60 (even though I'd have to take out a second mortgage for ammo).
As for weight, depending on what load you're using, they're not all that heavy. I've carried 50 or more shells with me on camping/hunting trips. Besides, a shotgun should be your close-in back-up weapon.
Back on topic. Frazz is right, plenty of firearms down here and ammo for most weapons is not a problem because every 3rd house you walk into would have ammo... Heck, down south even the zombies will be packing.
Orlanth wrote:Human error is just about the only way in for zombies.
We should probably kill all the humans, just to be safe.
It will be ok, if we improve two border measures and get really anally retentive over them.
1. All gates always sealed and an airlock method of getting through the gatehouse to be used at all times. Exeptions made for artics, and that requires all hands to battle stations and guns pointed everywhere.
2. Everyone entering is strip searched for bites, everyone, no exceptions, never. Anyone with a scratch of drawn blood is quarantined, bitten people are monitored and caged. Not all bites are from an infected source.
Admitting people with concealed bites is the No1 cause of post-zombie society collapse.
No they are more of a fire and forget weapon. If you've ever seen a weiner dog run, once you recover from the hysterical laughter, you'll definitely forget. It takes them awhile, I mean come on the Shanker's legs are 6 inches long and he's the big one...
So, maybe a giant slingshot or modified potato cannon could be used as a deployment method for Battle weiner dogs...
Schools are also an excellent choice. In Texas most schools double as hurricane or tornado shelters are are designed to be very tough. The elementary that GC goes to (two weeks and counting then its the Big Leagues for GC!!!) is masonry and stone and built as a tornado shelter. Glass is shatter resistant metal reinforced glass. Doors are lockable, metal and few. Has a full kitchen and water, and really cool art supplies and a library (for no reason in particular). Practically defendable with a small group as well.
AndrewC wrote:
PS want an ideal place to stay, google Fort George, Scotland and have a look at the satellite plan. Okay you need a few bodies to secure it, but once you have......
Hmm, no. Those are good field defences for the gunpowder age, so a GMPG on the battlements will have perforating fire because it is a much lower firing position. However because it is based around massed fieldsd of fire it will require a hefty garrison. Scotland has some very nice castles to use, but I would rule out any design post 15th century.
I was actually meaning in the initial stages there's a fair few rooms to check, but after that, its a doddle.
Why would you rule out any design post 15th century?
Orlanth wrote:Anyone here espouse the 'keep moving' doctrine of zombie survival. Zombieland is based on that principle (another highly recmmended film).
Personally I think its doomed and only lasts as long as the next unlucky encounter in unfmailiar territory or as far as scavenged resources last.
I think eventually everyone goes to keep moving which devolves into caveman level unless the zombie plague gets zapped. Meanwhile the farmers start farming again and humanity resets to about 2500BC. Either zombie games wind down in just a few months or its 2500BC time.
Frazzled wrote:Schools are also an excellent choice. In Texas most schools double as hurricane or tornado shelters are are designed to be very tough. The elementary that GC goes to (two weeks and counting then its the Big Leagues for GC!!!) is masonry and stone and built as a tornado shelter. Glass is shatter resistant metal reinforced glass. Doors are lockable, metal and few. Has a full kitchen and water, and really cool art supplies and a library (for no reason in particular). Practically defendable with a small group as well.
Yeah but you'd be stuck eating cafeteria food....a fate worse than zombification.
Frazzled wrote:Schools are also an excellent choice. In Texas most schools double as hurricane or tornado shelters are are designed to be very tough. The elementary that GC goes to (two weeks and counting then its the Big Leagues for GC!!!) is masonry and stone and built as a tornado shelter. Glass is shatter resistant metal reinforced glass. Doors are lockable, metal and few. Has a full kitchen and water, and really cool art supplies and a library (for no reason in particular). Practically defendable with a small group as well.
Yeah but you'd be stuck eating cafeteria food....a fate worse than zombification.
Nah thats why you go to the elementary. We're talking pizza, burgers, lots of sweets.
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Mistress of minis wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
No they are more of a fire and forget weapon. If you've ever seen a weiner dog run, once you recover from the hysterical laughter, you'll definitely forget. It takes them awhile, I mean come on the Shanker's legs are 6 inches long and he's the big one...
So, maybe a giant slingshot or modified potato cannon could be used as a deployment method for Battle weiner dogs...
I like you're thinking there. You could even set up a tripwire system that launches a weiner dog ala bouncing betty style. Nice.
Also don't forget to grab some super soakers as they'll likely have some turpentine around the place for it.
Local school is like that here, but with archery stuff Grab a few bows maybe a knife or two and of course the arrows and it will take a long time for you to fully run out of ammo. Not to mention it has a wood work section and metal working section as well. Them combined with a lot of time, a good imagination and a need to kill everything around would make some pretty interesting weapons (you should be getting the mental image of the bulky iron man suit from the movie bursting out of a school and trampling over zombies laughing manically). Like off the top of my head, fixing up something like a sword, but with some batteries (big of course) as a pack to heat up the blade to the level where it stops the wounds from bleeding, then of course the handle needs insulation.
Basically be imaginative to the level of near Mcguyver-ness (Unless you killed 20 zombies with a sniper rifle made out of pencil, paper clip and two rubber bands you're only close ), get a secure place then be a total jerk to all the zombies until the end of your life. Not like there's anything else to do
I'd suggest bringing along a loaded revolver, with "plan B" engraved on the side. The bullets aren't for the zombies.
agnosto wrote:A little OT but the conversation between Mistress and IG piqued my curiosity. I had no idea that it was so easy to get a federal firearms license (FFA). Heck, I might just get one so I can buy a SAW or an old M-60 (even though I'd have to take out a second mortgage for ammo).
Getting the FFL and getting a machine gun are seperate processes Sorta like getting a drivers license compared to the most difficult car registration imaginable. The breaking point for alot of people, is the clause that lets ATF pretty much walk into your house/buisness anytime they want- no warrant required. It doesnt happen often but its in their ability.
agnosto wrote:As for weight, depending on what load you're using, they're not all that heavy. I've carried 50 or more shells with me on camping/hunting trips. Besides, a shotgun should be your close-in back-up weapon.
The average shot shells, you get about 8-10 rounds per lb of weight. Add in a 12 lb gun that can fire 300 rpm out of 32 rd drums.....a decent combat load is gonna take a weight lifter, or military level fitness thats used to humpin a pretty solid ruck. On the up side, if you had enough mags you could lighten your load by around 30 lbs per minute
agnosto wrote:Back on topic. Frazz is right, plenty of firearms down here and ammo for most weapons is not a problem because every 3rd house you walk into would have ammo... Heck, down south even the zombies will be packing.
Lets make zombies with LAZER BEAMS in thier frikkin heads!!! Add in a wireless cam and it could be like a zombie FPS game!
Ayah I carry 50 in my skeet bag for well skeet and that just makes you look like Daniel Boone with a possibles bag. A couple of clips of .308 and your set.
Of course if they really are shambly zombies I could carry about 10,000 rounds of .22 LR and keep the shotgun for people, who would be much more fo a threat.
AndrewC wrote:Why would you rule out any design post 15th century?
The nature of warfare changed after large gunpowder cannons became more common in the 15th century, meaning that older castle designs could no longer adequately protect those inside. Thus, new designs of castle sprung up to provide protection from a mostly cannon/musket based attack, rather than from attack by catapult, wall stormings etc.
Any 50lbs just to arm yourself for the possible destruction of about 50 zombies? I'd rather carry 50 rounds of regular ammunition and then all the rest of the gear I would need to go further. Or better yet, stock my castle with as much ammo as I could find and not have to use it because the zombies can't get past the walls
Mistress of minis wrote:Imagine the Mythbusters episodes post Z-day.....
Tonight on Mythbusters.. Can you create a zombie killing cannon with a air compressor and some metal pipes and what random junk can kill them so you know what to ram down the barrel
SilverMK2 wrote:
The nature of warfare changed after large gunpowder cannons became more common in the 15th century, meaning that older castle designs could no longer adequately protect those inside. Thus, new designs of castle sprung up to provide protection from a mostly cannon/musket based attack, rather than from attack by catapult, wall stormings etc.
No, he seemed to infer that he would rule out any castle designed built after the 15th century for defense against zombies (or have I misread )
As far as I can see they still have the same defensive properties against 'foot'.
A lot of post C15 castles have slightly lower walls, often where older towers were pulled down in order to form platforms large enough to mount cannons.
There is also the fact that many more modern castles are not actually designed for defense, as such, compared to the older styles - they are designed for comfort and looks, rather than being able to be heavily defended sites.
And to reply to an earlier comment about Dover castle - it might be a good place to hole up, but will be far more likely to be in control of whatever is left of government, since it has all sorts of relatively new tech in there, and is in very good condition.
SilverMK2 wrote:A lot of post C15 castles have slightly lower walls, often where older towers were pulled down in order to form platforms large enough to mount cannons.
There is also the fact that many more modern castles are not actually designed for defense, as such, compared to the older styles - they are designed for comfort and looks, rather than being able to be heavily defended sites.
True, but I would have thought that they were still high enough to fend off the zombie hordes
And looking at the pictures for Fort George, and having visited, I know where I want to go.
Well, they are certainly better than houses, but I would suggest more wall = better
There are about 70m people here in the UK at the moment, and we are one of the most densely populated nations around too - that makes for a lot of potential zombies, and not much room to hide.
Although, as I have mentioned, I have my doubts on how many there would actually be with the traditional bite/infected/coma/zombie cycle of about 16-14 hours, for the reasons explained earlier.
However, with the "space probe radiation" style "anyone who dies comes back a zombie within minutes of death" zombies, we could be up poo river without any trousers.
SilverMK2 wrote:A lot of post C15 castles have slightly lower walls, often where older towers were pulled down in order to form platforms large enough to mount cannons.
There is also the fact that many more modern castles are not actually designed for defense, as such, compared to the older styles - they are designed for comfort and looks, rather than being able to be heavily defended sites.
True, but I would have thought that they were still high enough to fend off the zombie hordes
And looking at the pictures for Fort George, and having visited, I know where I want to go.
Andrew
Partly, the reason is because old castles from the Uk were manpower efficient. Medieval castles in the Uk had a different doctrine from those in most of Europe, alpine forts excepted. Continetnal castles wre there to defend against large sale siege, and support large offensive garrisons, some in ther Uk were (Tower of London, Dover) but most such as the bastion castles of Edward 1 were there to secure hostile territory and offer low garrison number points for secure perpetual control, relief garrisons could then be centralised. Most British castles on all sides of the borders were built that way, relatively small, low garrison counts and very efficient.
Castles had sniper garrsions plus a few men at arms/knights for chokepoints, realtively high walls small towers high multiple viewpoints. Manpower was only concentrated around the gates and then only when needed.
Now when you get the the renaissance fire volume of powder and shot are what matters, its all becomes very mathmetical. Walls are at the correct angle, not just to deflect shot but also to bring maximum numbers of musketry and cannon to bear. Its very manpoweer intensive.
Take Fort George to example, the walls are angled to create crossfires, now this would be excellent if you had machine gunners and lots of ammo, but you also have problems.
1. Renaissance forts require an active garrison, contantly ready to fire, the large building behind the walls are mostly magazines, you would be expected to get through a huge volume of ammo in a defence. defenders of earlier castles sat individually with bows and waited for odd opportunities. This translates into active wall defence to repel zombies, wheras the garrison in a medieval castle can and should very likely sit tight and do nothing most of the time.
2. Sloped walls are climbable, even if with a little difficulty.
3. Renaissance forts had lower walls to allow for penetrating shot shoot from a high wall shot goes through the target into the ground, shoot from low level and shot pases through one into a another. This will make for efficient automatic fire, that is true, but it also means that to gain 'height' renaissance forts requires deep excavated dry moats. LOS to those is poor and as zombies accumulate they will become zombie traps. Zombies around a medieval castle would eventuially drift away, especially if the garrison is quiet.
4. The main reason. Look at the angles of fire. An archer tower in a mediaval castle has a 360 degree view and will cover 180 arc of wall. Musket emplacements in a renassaince fortress will have 60 degree fire arcs at best, often far less, they are supposed to only see to the front for their own protection adn for good musketry drill, renaissance garrisons were much larger and the idea is that if you can see the defenders they have a crossfire on you from two walls. This means even if you have machine guns and lots of ammo you will need to set up defenders on every stetch of wall to account for full coverage and must keep active garrsion at all times because the walls are lower. Meanwhile three or four riflemen in the highest wall towers will provide full active cover for an earlier castle even a large one like Caernarvon, and you could get away with a watch as few as one or two men mean the gate or even ignore the zombies entirely. Given three silenced sniper rifles and careful use of arrowslits you could mount a silent defence against wandering zombies without them knowing where they are drawing fire from.
Fort George is a great example of a renaissance fortress, but lt will be best used for stopping the post nuclear biker hordes, not zombies.
Orlanth wrote:
Take Fort George to example, the walls are angled to create crossfires, now this would be excellent if you had machine gunners and lots of ammo, but you also have problems.
1. Renaissance forts require an active garrison, contrnstly firing, rather than in sniper position with a bow and waiting for opportunities. This translates into active wall defence to repel zombies, wheras the garrison in a medival castle can and should very likely sit tight and do nothing most of the time.
2. Sloped walls are climbable, even if with a little difficulty.
What you say makes sense, but we're coming at cross purposes here. Are we trying to actively kill all zombies or create a self sustaining bastion?
The walls at this particular fort still have high, almost vertical walls in 30' range. The slopes you are referring to are at the top, and are currently unreachable to the zombies. (presumably to allow grenades to roll back on the attackers! not an issue in this case) With the notion of acrobatic zombies now discounted they still can't get in because the walls are still sufficiently tall/vertical enough that they can't climb them. So if they can't get in, why waste ammo?
You're doing generic, I'm on specific.
Andrew
However since Fort George is home to the 3rd Black Watch, complete with their armoury, the problem isn't how the zombies get in, it's how do I get in?
The zombies have Trebuchets that launch cars what do your old frail castles do now?
Ask if they have the relevant paperwork to allow them to scrap cars in that matter , and while they try to figure out the relevant legislative paperwork , which is hard enought when your alive , nip round with a pair of scissors and cut the ropes
What you say makes sense, but we're coming at cross purposes here. Are we trying to actively kill all zombies or create a self sustaining bastion?
The walls at this particular fort still have high, almost vertical walls in 30' range. The slopes you are referring to are at the top, and are currently unreachable to the zombies. (presumably to allow grenades to roll back on the attackers! not an issue in this case) With the notion of acrobatic zombies now discounted they still can't get in because the walls are still sufficiently tall/vertical enough that they can't climb them. So if they can't get in, why waste ammo?
You're doing generic, I'm on specific.
30' is still a minimum defensive wall. So to have your low to the ground firing positions you need negative height. Now your zombies will get in there and fester, and come out when you are trying to do supply runs etc etc. Think of it as a countersunk trench filled with zombies ready to jump you if you come out.
The walls will be oriented opposite to earlier walls, old castles had a glasis at the bottom to deflect rams and boulders, renaissance forts had glasis at the top because thats the only part seen from level view.
Put is this way, medieval men could build renaissance style forts they didnt because in a pre-powder age it wasnt necessary usually. Zombies are a 'pre-powder' opponent.
Got medieval?
AndrewC wrote:
However since Fort George is home to the 3rd Black Watch, complete with their armoury, the problem isn't how the zombies get in, it's how do I get in?
Black Watch would probably be taking in survivors, initial run survivors will include bite victims, you and the survivoprs from the Watch will need to clear it out first. old castles are rarelty active garrisons, Tower of London being the only exception, so its a matter of walking in. The National Trust aren't going to be able to stop you.
Orlanth wrote:Black Watch would probably be taking in survivors, initial run survivors will include bite victims, you and the survivoprs from the Watch will need to clear it out first. old castles are rarelty active garrisons, Tower of London being the only exception, so its a matter of walking in. The National Trust aren't going to be able to stop you.
Sorry, this is one of the exceptions, see those nice clear fields, thats their firing ranges.
So, I say we take the island idea mentioned earlier- and take it to the next evolution.
An aircraft carrier! If the previous crew got zombiefied, cleaning them out might be too much effort- but if they killed eachother off already, you have a huge amount of infrastructure. Sure, the nuclear plant is only going to last 20 years, maybe longer with light use. But thats plenty of time to wait out the zombies. Theres desalinators for water, long term food stores for a few thousand people. Although the owner/operator manual might take a while to get through.
I suppose any of the nuclear destroyers would work too, you jsut wouldnt have the acreage on the deck to make a nice garden
Mistress of minis wrote:So, I say we take the island idea mentioned earlier- and take it to the next evolution.
An aircraft carrier! If the previous crew got zombiefied, cleaning them out might be too much effort- but if they killed eachother off already, you have a huge amount of infrastructure. Sure, the nuclear plant is only going to last 20 years, maybe longer with light use. But thats plenty of time to wait out the zombies. Theres desalinators for water, long term food stores for a few thousand people. Although the owner/operator manual might take a while to get through.
I suppose any of the nuclear destroyers would work too, you jsut wouldnt have the acreage on the deck to make a nice garden
A bold plan, to be sure. On the other hand, anyone can figure out how to man a castle in a few days. How many people know how to operate a nuclear vessel of any size? For that matter, how many people does it take to operate a nuclear carrier? This 11 man castle sounds like the ideal place to be in a zombie outbreak simply for its ease of use and low population requirements.
I do like the idea of a large boat as a source of salvation, but I wonder how long it would take to organize or train a crew.
Ever seen a boat that has been at sea for 20 years without any real dry-dock upkeep?
Even the best maintained machines break down eventually. I know how to get clean water for a handful of people with nothing more than a sheet of plastic and a cup of dirty water, but nothing that will clear enough water for a few thousand people packed on an aircraft carrier.
Another problem comes with supplies, overcrowding, food, etc.
With a castle there is the possibility of growing food within the walls, but nothing like that on a ship. You also have great defense against both human and zombie attackers. On a ship you may be safe from zombies, but don't think everyone won't run to the docks when they realise what is happening. Not everyone on the seas will be playing nice.
.....thinking now...I think I'd man up to a zombie if I had chainmail on...with sword and shield....I don't think I could just sit and wait for years and years on a ship. again, thinking about it I'd rather get out and do something useful than just sit there =/ I think I'd be happy as Cannon Fodder trying to protect my friends and family than some body that takes up space, eats the food, and does menial tasks.
Although as people have stated....that may change if the situation does arise....Thats just what I would want to do.
Loot the local pawn shop for a sword. Swords don't run out of ammo like shotguns, don't run out of fuel like chainsaws, and decapitate much easier than a ball bat. Swords are the answer to zombies. Trust me... I've dealt with it a couple of times before, and my wakazashi is never far from my bed nowadays. Maybe I'm NUTS or maybe I'm PREPARED! that's for cops to figure out... if they survive the next outbreak.
Automatically Appended Next Post: we get them here a lot, almost as often as tornados... just go to walmart and take a look around you'll see what I'm talking about... They're EVERYWHERE, just waiting, eating, growing, shuffling around.... so yeah get a good sword and you'll be fine
I would go to my friends house, his dad has 30 shotguns 5 pistols 3 rifles and plenty of food storage to last 30 people a month of food, water and ammo. Trust me I helped him move all those guns in their new house
SilverMK2 wrote:The problem with swords is that it is rare to be able to get a good one - there are so many show and replica swords around.
dude take the scadian trash and sharpen it on a rock. a blade is a blade. it doesn't have to be excalibur, just a big long blade that doesn't need reloading. You could kill slow staggering zombies all day with a big piece of sharp head-chopping metal (which is also a music genre I think)
Except that most show blades are cheap crappy alloy that breaks as soon as you hit anything with it
Better off getting some metal scaffolding (or other solid, workman-like metal ), running over it a few times with a truck to make it flat and then sharpening the edges.
Swords are not pick up and swing weapons, there is an entry level skill requirement. Try a halberd instead, against slowpoke zombies reach is a good asset.
SilverMK2 wrote:Ever seen a boat that has been at sea for 20 years without any real dry-dock upkeep?
Even the best maintained machines break down eventually. I know how to get clean water for a handful of people with nothing more than a sheet of plastic and a cup of dirty water, but nothing that will clear enough water for a few thousand people packed on an aircraft carrier.
Another problem comes with supplies, overcrowding, food, etc.
With a castle there is the possibility of growing food within the walls, but nothing like that on a ship. You also have great defense against both human and zombie attackers. On a ship you may be safe from zombies, but don't think everyone won't run to the docks when they realise what is happening. Not everyone on the seas will be playing nice.
They don't have to be at sea. Stay moored in port. They are the ultimate moat scenario castle. Put someone by the anchor chain to make sure they can't come that way and you're good.
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SilverMK2 wrote:The problem with swords is that it is rare to be able to get a good one - there are so many show and replica swords around.
However many sporting goods stores have machetes for sale. They are real.
But again, Shawn of the Dead showed us the way. We don't need swords, or guns, or machetes. We only real just need a cricket bat or a nice five iron. There are five irons all over the place. : )
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Death Gear wrote:I would go to my friends house, his dad has 30 shotguns 5 pistols 3 rifles and plenty of food storage to last 30 people a month of food, water and ammo. Trust me I helped him move all those guns in their new house
Why do you think he's going to let you in?
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Guitardian wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:The problem with swords is that it is rare to be able to get a good one - there are so many show and replica swords around.
dude take the scadian trash and sharpen it on a rock. a blade is a blade. it doesn't have to be excalibur, just a big long blade that doesn't need reloading. You could kill slow staggering zombies all day with a big piece of sharp head-chopping metal (which is also a music genre I think)
Thats not quite accurate G. Usually the difficulty is one of two areas:
1) 'Cletus that ain't no steel!' Use of aluminum or cheap grade steel
2) Tang. The tang is usually insufficiently strong for a real sword and the blade will snap off with a real swing.
Also: there are old cold war bunkers all over the place, sometimes in cities, sometimes in the middle of nowhere.
That said: Remington trench broom, spas 12 with 50 round drum, or 2 TA-5 pistols with 100 round drums.
Otherwise: M1 rifle.
All of these ammo is plentiful, and are solidly built and unlikely to wear out quickly. The AK is also an option, but remember to conserve ammo with one. Having to change a clip in the middle of an assault is bad.
If you're bunkered up, just keep hitting them with molitovs/a flamethrower (I have one, and they are legal to own without a permit). You can kill quite a few with one shot and fuel is plentiful.
Mistress of minis wrote:Mr. Jerry Babar, President/CEO of Military Police Systems, Inc. (MPS, Inc.) of Piney Flats, Tennessee and developer of the AA-12 Shotgun, kindly answered my questions today, 23 Feb 2009, which I transcribed (possibly with some minor errors) as follows: "[I am returning] your call about the AA-12. By the 1986 Federal law, any [machine] guns made prior to 19 May 1986 are transferable, and there are 400,000 legal machine guns in the United States. Any [machine] guns made after 19 May 1986 are not transferable to civilians and cannot be [built by or owned (inaudible)] by civilians. And in fact, if I ever get my license up, I can assure you that I can't even have them [AA-12's]. I can't keep them in stock or transfer them, or somebody will have my license. There are 19, almost 20 [AA-12] guns built right now and they are with various military operations for evaluation, and they are involved with some of the manufacture of them [AA-12's]. Watch the Military Channel in June [2009] for the new Robot video that we just did. It is a really good 20-30 minute video. It will be under the "Ultimate Weapons" program. Also, the New Yorker magazine has a six page article on us. I appreciate you for calling. Thanks alot."
That kind of makes the veracity of your claims very dubious. 19, almost 20 of them built by 2009, and you're claiming at least 7 of them are in Seattle gunshops, rather than military testing ranges. Smells like something that needs a shovel to spread about the garden. A class 3 license itself isnt that hard to obtain, but the machine gun transfer IS.
1. it's really sad that you went to those lengths to prove your point. you can't be wrong, huh? have to have the last word?...typicial.
2. I am probably wrong on which model I was holding, so I will give you that. But there are a number of auto 12 models around. I was probably lost in the awe of holding an auto shoty and then my brain made the correlation between that and the AA 12 in my head movies because I play too much MW2. But I DID say an AA 12, SAIGA, or USAS......are you one of those people who doesnt listen (read), because you are too concerned with being right and what you are going to say next? I never implied that there were 7 AA 12s.
3. your prison idea is still gak.
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AndrewC wrote:
IG_urban wrote:
Too much wall to defend, in a swarm situation, even the slowest, dumbest zombies could climb on top of each other over those walls. More people to guard the walls means more people to betray you and possibly to go bat gak crazy.
For the purposes of argument I'm going for the classic shambling zombie here.
Zombies aren't/don't seem capable of cooperation to any extent so the idea that they will perform a circus act to raise some of their number to a point above a castle wall seems a little ridiculous (almost as bad as the thought of a zombie plague, but not as much fun). I would rather have a 6 to 12' thick stone wall to protect me compared to a singe concrete breeze block. Also, consider, your problems are not solely related to the undead. Referring back to the second of Romeros films, a determined human foe is going to go through your walls with minmal thought. From the pictures I can source for Costco it seems to be a steel frame construction with 'filler' walls. It also seems to have a 'no walk' roof.
In the short term, the Costco idea has lots going for it. Food & supplies.
Long term, it's is a box that requires electricity and modern amienities (eg sewers & running water) to function, no fall back bastions, no natural lighting, and no way of self support in the long term. It is not designed to house large numbers of people permanently. The roof is a liability as should the zombies get onto the roof they will simply fall through into the shop below.
Now compare.
In the short term a castle has little to recommend. There will be an effort required to initially secure it, and unless there is a cafe or such little supplies.
Long term, it is a construction of proven durability, designed with the express purpose of keeping people out, dead or alive. There will in all likelyhood be a spring or well within the walls to provide water and has considerable space to either keep livestock or grow food. It is not designed to rely on modern amienities. The castle can become self sufficient after a time. It is designed to house large numbers of people. Should the worst come to the worst there are fall back positions to consolidate to and perhaps attack back from.
Its apples and oranges.
Are you preparing short term or long term? Me, I'd rather think long term.
Cheers
Andrew
PS want an ideal place to stay, google Fort George, Scotland and have a look at the satellite plan. Okay you need a few bodies to secure it, but once you have......
I don't have castles man. and costco is fething HUUUUGE...and there is so so so so so much perishable and non perishable food.....
remember when I said I wasted hours on this idea?....well...I used to smoke a lot of weed....and this was one of our main brainstorms. we went as far as touring a costco and facilities. the roof is totally walkable, the walls are about 3 feet thick, reinforced with steel.
drinking water? there are at least 50 pallets containing 20 water cooler sized bottles. this is not counting the countless water bottles both small medium and large. also, yard waste bins, huge mixing containers from the kitchen, garbage cans (both the ones for sale and the ones in the place) to be filled with water while the water is still running...plus, I live in seattle, man....the rainiest place in the USA...it seems. we get rain the majority of the year.
my party would have no more than 6 people...
my party is also full of city living, ron paul, supporting gun collectors. we all know how to shoot, we paintball and go shooting weekly (when possible). We all have stores of ammo and weapons. any "determined" human foe is getting two in the chest and one in the head, no questions asked.
I am in class, but I will be more than happy to type out my complete plan tonight....my friend is a literal certified genius. I am (despite how fast and inaccurately I may type, or how hot headed I may get on here, and how I am 23 and sometimes, not as often as a few years ago, but still, I don't think about things before I say them) pretty dang myself. We have run hundreds of scenarios. We have thought up everything that we could conceive, and are intelligent enough to adapt to un-thought-of-situations.
IG_urban wrote:
I don't have castles man. and costco is fething HUUUUGE...and there is so so so so so much perishable and non perishable food.....
remember when I said I wasted hours on this idea?....well...I used to smoke a lot of weed....and this was one of our main brainstorms. we went as far as touring a costco and facilities. the roof is totally walkable, the walls are about 3 feet thick, reinforced with steel.
i think you are overestimating the thickness/construction of the the walls as well as the roof. All the pictures I could source showed a steel girder frame construction with filler walls on the side, the roof was of open frame construction with no internal supports, which while having walkable portions is not completely safe. And I seriously doubt that Costco wuld let you walk over it to test the load points.
drinking water? there are at least 50 pallets containing 20 water cooler sized bottles. this is not counting the countless water bottles both small medium and large. also, yard waste bins, huge mixing containers from the kitchen, garbage cans (both the ones for sale and the ones in the place) to be filled with water while the water is still running...plus, I live in seattle, man....the rainiest place in the USA...it seems. we get rain the majority of the year.
my party would have no more than 6 people...
with an average usage of 60 to 90 litres a day you're going to run out quicker than you think.
my party is also full of city living, ron paul, supporting gun collectors. we all know how to shoot, we paintball and go shooting weekly (when possible). We all have stores of ammo and weapons. any "determined" human foe is getting two in the chest and one in the head, no questions asked.
I am in class, but I will be more than happy to type out my complete plan tonight....my friend is a literal certified genius. I am (despite how fast and inaccurately I may type, or how hot headed I may get on here, and how I am 23 and sometimes, not as often as a few years ago, but still, I don't think about things before I say them) pretty dang myself. We have run hundreds of scenarios. We have thought up everything that we could conceive, and are intelligent enough to adapt to un-thought-of-situations.
And so is every other person in Seattle. If it ever did happen, you and everyone else is going to be running to the same place. Look at all the panic buying that happens whenever something unforseen happens, first place that gets hit is the stores. And if the Army, police or National Guard decide they want Costco, you're not holding on to it.
Please don't take this the wrong way, you claim you and your friend are both either genius or extremely intelligent, but you both failed to take into one consideration, your plan may be horribly wrong, so claiming that it is foolproof is very stupid. We all make mistakes. Case in point, and could be said a cheap one, if you, a self confessed gun collector, can misidentify a shotgun you claim to have held, what else have you got wrong?
Cheers
Andrew
I think I'll be sleeping with the light on tonight....
Guitardian wrote:Loot the local pawn shop for a sword. Swords don't run out of ammo like shotguns, don't run out of fuel like chainsaws, and decapitate much easier than a ball bat. Swords are the answer to zombies. Trust me... I've dealt with it a couple of times before, and my wakazashi is never far from my bed nowadays. Maybe I'm NUTS or maybe I'm PREPARED! that's for cops to figure out... if they survive the next outbreak.
Automatically Appended Next Post: we get them here a lot, almost as often as tornados... just go to walmart and take a look around you'll see what I'm talking about... They're EVERYWHERE, just waiting, eating, growing, shuffling around.... so yeah get a good sword and you'll be fine
.....its people like you that I'd want in my survivor party
AndrewC wrote:
i think you are overestimating the thickness/construction of the the walls as well as the roof. All the pictures I could source showed a steel girder frame construction with filler walls on the side, the roof was of open frame construction with no internal supports, which while having walkable portions is not completely safe. And I seriously doubt that Costco wuld let you walk over it to test the load points.
Well considering each costco is built differently, and you are looking at images on the internet, you really have no idea what you are talking about. Well I was up on the roof for about 20 minutes. I didn't run the gauntlet of scientific load bearing tests....but who gives a gak? What am I storing up there....elephants and tanks?
AndrewC wrote:with an average usage of 60 to 90 litres a day you're going to run out quicker than you think.
why the hell would I be using that much water?....seriously? in a zombie situation I would sponge bathe every couple of days, be drinking AT MOST a litre of water per day, x 6.
AndrewC wrote:And so is every other person in Seattle. If it ever did happen, you and everyone else is going to be running to the same place. Look at all the panic buying that happens whenever something unforseen happens, first place that gets hit is the stores. And if the Army, police or National Guard decide they want Costco, you're not holding on to it.
really? really? have you ever been to Seattle? Let alone the US? We are one of the most liberal democratic areas...people are so ridiculously gun-scared here. Please, do not argue if you have nothing to base it off of.
oh and I cut off some of your quote, but as far as people in costco, 6 heavily armed people could clear it out pretty quick (hence the gun fear). Besides, I live 10 minutes from a costco. And while everybody else is gathering their airlooms and supplies and getting eatn, I will make my way there with my 4runner.
We have Bangor Naval Base, McChord Airforce Base, and Fort Lewis within 100 miles....the armed forces are not going to need a costco....these bases are so huge....to give an idea, Bangor has a very large percentage of the total number of nuclear subs our navy has. McChord is massive. Just down the road from downtown seattle we have a HUGE natl guard/army storage plant with a large number of combat/supplie/armored vehicles...and that isn't even a base.
in fact...here...
Army
* Yakima Firing Center
* Fort Lewis
Navy & Marine Corps
* Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
* Everett Naval Station
* Naval Station Bremerton
* Naval Underwater Warfare Engineering Station
* Whidbey Island Naval Air Station
* Naval Strategic Weapon Fac Pac
* Bangor Naval Submarine Base
Air Force
* Fairchild AFB
* McChord AFB
Coast Guard
* Thirteenth Coast Guard District
* Group Port Angeles
* Group Seattle
* Marine Safety Office Puget Sound
* Air Station Port Angeles
* National MotorLifeboat School
* Vessel Traffic Puget Sound
Personnel Totals
* Army 17,367
* Navy & Marine Corps 7,751
* Air Force 7,280
* Coast Guard 2,112
* Active Duty Military 32,398
* Reserve and National Guard 31,105
* Total Personnel 65,615
they don't need a costco.
AndrewC wrote:Please don't take this the wrong way, you claim you and your friend are both either genius or extremely intelligent, but you both failed to take into one consideration, your plan may be horribly wrong, so claiming that it is foolproof is very stupid. We all make mistakes. Case in point, and could be said a cheap one, if you, a self confessed gun collector, can misidentify a shotgun you claim to have held, what else have you got wrong?
Cheers
Andrew
I think I'll be sleeping with the light on tonight....
Misidentifying a class III non-civilian full auto shotgun and owning WWII rifles, an AK47 an SKS (which count as curio and relic by law) and Mossberg 500 and a few handguns are very different things.
I don't really like your confrontational attitude, my friend. But, whatever. It's the internets.
Please, IM me, try to find holes in my plan...it's not perfect, but I guarantee you that I have thought about it extensively.
1. it's really sad that you went to those lengths to prove your point. you can't be wrong, huh? have to have the last word?...typicial.
2. I am probably wrong on which model I was holding, so I will give you that. But there are a number of auto 12 models around. I was probably lost in the awe of holding an auto shoty and then my brain made the correlation between that and the AA 12 in my head movies because I play too much MW2. But I DID say an AA 12, SAIGA, or USAS......are you one of those people who doesnt listen (read), because you are too concerned with being right and what you are going to say next? I never implied that there were 7 AA 12s.
3. your prison idea is still gak.
1- It didnt take any great lengths- I follow weapons development for revolutionary weapon designs like the AA-12 and Kriss SMG. So it took all of 30 seconds to find that little note in my email archive.
2- You made bogus claims that you could get one at an AA-12 of several Seattle area gunstores- if you want to waffle over semantics so you dont look like you were full of crap or slowed- thats your prerogative. If you cant tell the difference between an AA-12, a USAS 12, or a Saiga- you have bigger issues than me calling your crap online. Theres a big difference to handling these weapons IRL than runnin around in an FPS acting like you're a commando. I realize this is tempered with the flex in reality of zombies, but when you make claims of facts- that are based on something in our reality- dont get offended when someone lets you know you arent right. FYI, the USAS 12 were never commercially available in the US(class 3 destructive device), so just like the AA-12, not something that sits on a gun store shelf.
3- Youre planning on holing up in a Costco-With no power, you have no water. With no power all that frozen and refrigerated food is going to rot. You wont be able to eat a few thousands pounds of produce and meat before that happens, or drink several hundred gallons of milk. No ventilation to get that stink out- its going to smell worse than the zombies in there in short order. The building is too big to adequately defend because its not designed for it. No clear fields of fire, multiple points of entry and about half the time the building is flammable(and wont have working sprinklers). So, just keep callin my idea gak if it makes you feel better
IG_urban wrote:
remember when I said I wasted hours on this idea?....well...I used to smoke a lot of weed....
It shows.
IG_urban wrote:
my party would have no more than 6 people...
That sounds just like every D&D game thats gone bad...
IG_urban wrote:
my party is also full of city living, ron paul, supporting gun collectors. we all know how to shoot, we paintball and go shooting weekly (when possible). We all have stores of ammo and weapons. any "determined" human foe is getting two in the chest and one in the head, no questions asked.
A 'determined' human foe may have 20 freinds that all know how to shoot too. 6 people is NOT enough to secure a building that covers on average 100,000 square feet.
IG_urban wrote:
I am in class, but I will be more than happy to type out my complete plan tonight....my friend is a literal certified genius. I am (despite how fast and inaccurately I may type, or how hot headed I may get on here, and how I am 23 and sometimes, not as often as a few years ago, but still, I don't think about things before I say them) pretty dang myself. We have run hundreds of scenarios. We have thought up everything that we could conceive, and are intelligent enough to adapt to un-thought-of-situations.
Your freind may be a genius, and your local gunstore might stock AA-12's and USAS 12's on the racks next to the Bolters and Plasmaguns. But what it boils down to, is you THINK your plan is perfect and therefore everyone elses must suck. You dont get it. People have different skills and knowledge- yours makes you think a costco is a fort with a lifetime supply of food. You instantly dismiss everyone elses ideas, which is pure ignorance. 'Adapting to un-thought-of-situations' means keeping an OPEN mind, accepting that there are better ideas- taking the parts that are better and making them fit with your skillset and knowledge.
Please, IM me, try to find holes in my plan...it's not perfect, but I guarantee you that I have thought about it extensively.
With this
IG_urban wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
my costco plan is failsafe against all types of zombies as well.
At least now you accept that there may be holes in your plan. And according to you, you are the only people in Seattle who own guns? As to the authorities wanting Costco, it's called fair division of supplies, they seize it to distribute to others.
IG, I'm not doubting you've thought that plan through but you've dismissed all other options as non viable and been quite rude and abrupt in some of your posts. Confrontational, pot & kettle spring to mind here.
AndrewC wrote:
At least now you accept that there may be holes in your plan. And according to you, you are the only people in Seattle who own guns? As to the authorities wanting Costco, it's called fair division of supplies, they seize it to distribute to others.
IG, I'm not doubting you've thought that plan through but you've dismissed all other options as non viable and been quite rude and abrupt in some of your posts. Confrontational, pot & kettle spring to mind here.
Cheers
Andrew
Oh come on Andrew, he obviously knows everything, we should be hoping he lets us be one of the 6 in his party at his Costco citadel that has 3 foot thick walls. With his vast experience in his 23 years of playing video games while smoking weed with his certifiable genius friend, he obviously has the 'right stuff' to stop the zombie menace.
Mistress of minis wrote:Oh come on Andrew, he obviously knows everything, we should be hoping he lets us be one of the 6 in his party at his Costco citadel that has 3 foot thick walls. With his vast experience in his 23 years of playing video games while smoking weed with his certifiable genius friend, he obviously has the 'right stuff' to stop the zombie menace.
Sorry, I'm heading to Fort George hoping the 3rd Black Watch will let me in.
As an aside, I was in the local "Pound Shop" (a place where everything costs a pound) and found a farmers guide to crop rotation and a full aisle of kiddies grow your own veggies packs. Since the BBC "Survivors" is more likely than "Zombie Apocalyps" I now know where I'm heading first
Could we please stop the fighting? I understand where mistress of minis is coming from with her arguement, but the way you are going about it is a little inflammatory which could result in the thread being closed.
Ig Urban has admitted to his mistakes over handling weapons, and we seem to be able to spot the holes in his plan when he can't. Let's try and do it a bit nicer tho?
And dude, admitting that you came up with this idea while smoking weed is like convincing your girl to do a position cause oyu saw it in porn.
Not exactly helping you out.
if you wish to continue this conversation debating each others plan, choice of weaponry, etc etc, I ask that you then please do so over pm.
Mistress of minis wrote:Oh come on Andrew, he obviously knows everything, we should be hoping he lets us be one of the 6 in his party at his Costco citadel that has 3 foot thick walls. With his vast experience in his 23 years of playing video games while smoking weed with his certifiable genius friend, he obviously has the 'right stuff' to stop the zombie menace.
Well... if this was Shawn of the Dead... I suppose so...
I'll stick to my plan involving blast doors that can withstand a 5 megaton direct hit. I think that will keep the zombies out fairly well.
Costco is a really bad idea simply because everyone and their brother will run there for supplies, which you will quickly run out of.
And remember, the government subscribes to the idea of 'Nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure' when it comes to the big 'Z'.
Mistress of minis wrote:Oh come on Andrew, he obviously knows everything, we should be hoping he lets us be one of the 6 in his party at his Costco citadel that has 3 foot thick walls. With his vast experience in his 23 years of playing video games while smoking weed with his certifiable genius friend, he obviously has the 'right stuff' to stop the zombie menace.
Sorry, I'm heading to Fort George hoping the 3rd Black Watch will let me in.
As an aside, I was in the local "Pound Shop" (a place where everything costs a pound) and found a farmers guide to crop rotation and a full aisle of kiddies grow your own veggies packs. Since the BBC "Survivors" is more likely than "Zombie Apocalyps" I now know where I'm heading first
Andrew
Funny how so few people plan past hoarding some ammo and cans of tuna. I hate gardening, so I'd have to get me some serfs & peasants to herd my goats and grow the veggies
And I'm still sleeping with the light on it may sound funny but the idea of zombies scares the crap out of me. Seriously. No joke. Never got over seeing the first Romero film.
Mistress of minis wrote:1- It didnt take any great lengths- I follow weapons development for revolutionary weapon designs like the AA-12 and Kriss SMG. So it took all of 30 seconds to find that little note in my email archive.
bs.
Mistress of minis wrote:2- You made bogus claims that you could get one at an AA-12 of several Seattle area gunstores- if you want to waffle over semantics so you dont look like you were full of crap or slowed- thats your prerogative. If you cant tell the difference between an AA-12, a USAS 12, or a Saiga- you have bigger issues than me calling your crap online. Theres a big difference to handling these weapons IRL than runnin around in an FPS acting like you're a commando. I realize this is tempered with the flex in reality of zombies, but when you make claims of facts- that are based on something in our reality- dont get offended when someone lets you know you arent right. FYI, the USAS 12 were never commercially available in the US(class 3 destructive device), so just like the AA-12, not something that sits on a gun store shelf.
It's not a bogus claim. Stop.
It's not waffling, you absorbed a very vague and loose translation of what I said. And judging by the rest of your post, you barely read any of it.
I am not saying I went to the gun store yesterday and I go every day. These things happened at different intervals in time, and I was merely stating that I may have remembered it wrong. So ease off the b switch, please.
Yeah, and drugs are not commercially available in the US either. The street sweeper, I believe, is also a class III DD, but they used to be sold in the back of soldier of fortune magazine, and if you bought it before the ban its yours legally. Which means a gunshop could EASILY have one, or a USAS on display. Which is why I have seen one before. Just because you have not seen something, does not mean it does not exist. Also, I never said that I could purchase one. I said I could possibly obtain one, in the event of the ZA.
Mistress of minis wrote:3- Youre planning on holing up in a Costco-With no power, you have no water. With no power all that frozen and refrigerated food is going to rot. You wont be able to eat a few thousands pounds of produce and meat before that happens, or drink several hundred gallons of milk. No ventilation to get that stink out- its going to smell worse than the zombies in there in short order. The building is too big to adequately defend because its not designed for it. No clear fields of fire, multiple points of entry and about half the time the building is flammable(and wont have working sprinklers). So, just keep callin my idea gak if it makes you feel better
Costco has thousands of pound of canned vegetables and fruit and nuts. which, last time a checked, last a REAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLY long time. also, vacume sealers, which, untill the power gets switched off, I can seal perishable food. yes, frozen and refrigerated and a lot of perishable food will go bad...never said it wouldn't. There is plenty of ventilation. Not to mention the 100+ gallons of reserve fuel for the stores generators which switch on in the event of a power outage to keep the food from going bad. AND the HUGE propane tanks they sell with BBqs, and the propane refilling station in the store, and the the thousands of batteries of the AA AAA C D DD etc variety. I am not an idiot, Im not going to blow the place up. jesus. I don't need sprinklers. The building is made out of metal and concrete, the shelves are made out of metal, the roof is made out of metal, the floor is concrete. it's not going to catch on fire easily.
READ POSTS BEFORE YOU RESPOND!!!!!!! there are at any given time, 5 forklifts meant for lifting thousands of pounds in a costco. take the freezer boxes, which are about 12 feet high, 20 feet long, and who knows how heavy, and place them in front of the metal sliding doors. do the same with all other doors. they can be moved if needed. there are welding supplies in a costco, weld all of the doors shut, reinforce them with peices from the shelves. I can tig and mig weld, anything else I could figure out.
and I am just going to let the food sit and rot?....piss no, I have nothing else to do...I'll bring it out on the roof and throw it over the side.
your plan is gak, and you are a venomous, nasty, person with a daunting need to be right. and it makes me feel GRRRRRRREAT! to say so.
AndrewC wrote:Okay compare this
IG_urban wrote:
Please, IM me, try to find holes in my plan...it's not perfect, but I guarantee you that I have thought about it extensively.
With this
IG_urban wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
my costco plan is failsafe against all types of zombies as well.
yes, I know. I said it is failsafe against all zombie types, not all problems. not the same thing, thank you, come again. at another point in this thread I said it is fool-proof...because I am not an idiot.
AndrewC wrote:At least now you accept that there may be holes in your plan. And according to you, you are the only people in Seattle who own guns? As to the authorities wanting Costco, it's called fair division of supplies, they seize it to distribute to others.
No, we are not the only people...but the majority of the owners have a handgun or shotgun with a box of ammo maybe, and the ones with more are not going to be going to a downtown costco, let alone be anywhere near one...most of theme are on the other side of the mountains in eastern WA. AND IF the military comes....I will cooperate. and insist on riding in a tank, and them letting me keep my guns. in that situation, I bet they would...if not...at least I will be in a tank. if they want to send me to a FEMA camp, I will run. My guess is, that they will be too busy securing VIPS and fighting off the hoards. maybe after a few weeks they might, but by that time, it will be safer to move about. the zombies will have spread out more.
AndrewC wrote:IG, I'm not doubting you've thought that plan through but you've dismissed all other options as non viable and been quite rude and abrupt in some of your posts. Confrontational, pot & kettle spring to mind here.
Cheers
Andrew
I fight fire with fire, me boyo. I have tried to be nice, but certain people just need to be right and/or started off nasty.
and I have only dismissed 2 ideas. the prison idea and the castle idea.....
oh wait, and GES' hide in the house idea.
the castle idea has its charms, I will admit now....but there are no castles around here. and I would rather be in costco.
[figurative]I am the pot...and I am black...and so is the kettle....neither one is better than the other. the kettle just needs to realize this, too...[/figurative]
I haven't followed the entire fight...but....reading this.....IG_Urban.
This is endgame my friend....I'm sorry to say but she burned you so bad that I have 3rd degree burns from reading it.......acceptance of defeat is your only option
PS: Damn Mistriss.....Damn....that was epic burnage......but you made me laugh when you said "AA-12's and USA 12's on the racks next to the Bolters and Plasmaguns"
Mistress of minis wrote:Oh come on Andrew, he obviously knows everything, we should be hoping he lets us be one of the 6 in his party at his Costco citadel that has 3 foot thick walls. With his vast experience in his 23 years of playing video games while smoking weed with his certifiable genius friend, he obviously has the 'right stuff' to stop the zombie menace.
now you are crossing the line. piss off.
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:Could we please stop the fighting? I understand where mistress of minis is coming from with her arguement, but the way you are going about it is a little inflammatory which could result in the thread being closed.
Ig Urban has admitted to his mistakes over handling weapons, and we seem to be able to spot the holes in his plan when he can't. Let's try and do it a bit nicer tho?
And dude, admitting that you came up with this idea while smoking weed is like convincing your girl to do a position cause oyu saw it in porn.
Not exactly helping you out.
if you wish to continue this conversation debating each others plan, choice of weaponry, etc etc, I ask that you then please do so over pm.
I think you need to smoke more weed. There have been many great ideas thought of whilst smoking weed.
I admitted mistakes in handling 1 type of weapon...and I have invited, NUMEROUS times for people to IM me about holes in my plan....and I have been addressing each one that has been brought to the table, all the while dealing with people being nasty.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Commissar NIkev wrote:
I haven't followed the entire fight...but....reading this.....IG_Urban.
This is endgame my friend....I'm sorry to say but she burned you so bad that I have 3rd degree burns from reading it.......acceptance of defeat is your only option
PS: Damn Mistriss.....Damn....that was epic burnage......but you made me laugh when you said "AA-12's and USA 12's on the racks next to the Bolters and Plasmaguns"
Costco has thousands of pound of canned vegetables and fruit and nuts. which, last time a checked, last a REAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLY long time. also, vacume sealers, which, untill the power gets switched off, I can seal perishable food. yes, frozen and refrigerated and a lot of perishable food will go bad...never said it wouldn't. There is plenty of ventilation. Not to mention the 100+ gallons of reserve fuel for the stores generators which switch on in the event of a power outage to keep the food from going bad. AND the HUGE propane tanks they sell with BBqs, and the propane refilling station in the store, and the the thousands of batteries of the AA AAA C D DD etc variety. I am not an idiot, Im not going to blow the place up. jesus. I don't need sprinklers. The building is made out of metal and concrete, the shelves are made out of metal, the roof is made out of metal, the floor is concrete. it's not going to catch on fire easily.
Dude....but if you only have like 6 people that be A LOT of work. I've never been in a Costco but I've read about how large you guys said it was.....there is just no way 6 people can do that in time. Survivors may come in or Zombies may venture in because of your scent.... Plus you'd all be so busy watching your backs that you'd barely get any work done....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IG_urban wrote:
no, not really.
I must say yes.
...you know......you could just leave this thread if you're going to tell people to piss off.....If this really makes you that mad.....you don't have to be on this site you know. Thought someone as apparently smart as you would think of that by now.
Mistress of minis wrote:
1- It didnt take any great lengths- I follow weapons development for revolutionary weapon designs like the AA-12 and Kriss SMG. So it took all of 30 seconds to find that little note in my email archive.
Mistress of minis wrote:Mr. Jerry Babar, President/CEO of Military Police Systems, Inc. (MPS, Inc.) of Piney Flats, Tennessee and developer of the AA-12 Shotgun, kindly answered my questions today, 23 Feb 2009, which I transcribed (possibly with some minor errors)
transcribe means that it came from audio.....why not just copy and past the email? Oh, and you also said "inaudible" in that same post..implying you probably called and left a message in a failed attempt to "burn" me for this topic.
Mistress of minis wrote:Your freind may be a genius, and your local gunstore might stock AA-12's and USAS 12's on the racks next to the Bolters and Plasmaguns. But what it boils down to, is you THINK your plan is perfect and therefore everyone elses must suck. You dont get it. People have different skills and knowledge- yours makes you think a costco is a fort with a lifetime supply of food. You instantly dismiss everyone elses ideas, which is pure ignorance. 'Adapting to un-thought-of-situations' means keeping an OPEN mind, accepting that there are better ideas- taking the parts that are better and making them fit with your skillset and knowledge.
no the only plans I have said anything about were the castle and your prison (and GES's). I have gone back and admitted that I was wrong a number of times, wheres you just turned on your b switch as soon as I had issues with your plan. because you have to be right.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Commissar NIkev wrote:I must say yes.
...you know......you could just leave this thread if you're going to tell people to piss off.....If this really makes you that mad.....you don't have to be on this site you know. Thought someone as apparently smart as you would think of that by now.
stop being a troll. mistress is being needlessly nasty....I will not tolerate that. I cannot stand people making idiotic assumptions about my life based on a few lines of text...typical ignorance.
IG_urban, I regret to inform you that you are 100% failed to provide a viable survive the zombie plague plan. This is because by standing around arguing loudly you have attracted some zombies. It is a pity you and those you are having a slagging match with were too busy comparing weapon stats to notice the shuffling noises from all around until way too late.
IG_urban wrote:
stop being a troll. mistress is being needlessly nasty....I will not tolerate that. I cannot stand people making idiotic assumptions about my life based on a few lines of text...typical ignorance.
Okay....I am not like 10 meters tall and stomp around the world smashing things and bashing stuff with a club......thats just ridiculous. But dude, you said you smoked weed and made these plans. Its obvious that you're plan will have many many holes and mistakes when you plan it when your high on that Mary-Jane.
But yea.....I'm going to do what you should have done when you got 'mad', I'm signing off for now.
Orlanth wrote:IG_urban, I regret to inform you that you are 100% failed to provide a viable survive the zombie plague plan. This is because by standing around arguing loudly you have attracted some zombies. It is a pity you and those you are having a slagging match with were too busy comparing weapon stats to notice the shuffling noises from all around until way too late.
Orlanth wrote:IG_urban, I regret to inform you that you are 100% failed to provide a viable survive the zombie plague plan. This is because by standing around arguing loudly you have attracted some zombies. It is a pity you and those you are having a slagging match with were too busy comparing weapon stats to notice the shuffling noises from all around until way too late.
You have been bitten, game over.
Awe.......Darn........Wait....DO I have time to shoot myself so I don't attack anybody else? If so, I'll do that so I don't become a possible doom for anyone else.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brunius wrote:1) Find an army base
2) Grab guns, nades, RPGs, etc.
3) Grab APC
4) GET TODA CHOPPA!
Everybody seems to be obsessed with walls all off a sudden. It's incredibly easy to amke some defensive barricades to slow zombies down and allow oyu to mount a proper defence that don't require 30 foot high walls. Well, depending on the size of the horde.
Inwhich case, I will admit to wanting to be in the castle.
I would praise grandfather Nurgle for blessing this Planet with one of the deadliest diseases known to the Imperium of Man (except AIDS). I would also confinscate all shotguns, the well known "cure" for those infected with the zombie plague (and AIDS). The Planet would Then belong to nurgle and then I'd be promoted to Daemon Prince! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!
transcribe means that it came from audio.....why not just copy and past the email? Oh, and you also said "inaudible" in that same post..implying you probably called and left a message in a failed attempt to "burn" me for this topic.
no the only plans I have said anything about were the castle and your prison (and GES's). I have gone back and admitted that I was wrong a number of times, wheres you just turned on your b switch as soon as I had issues with your plan. because you have to be right.
mistress is being needlessly nasty....I will not tolerate that. I cannot stand people making idiotic assumptions about my life based on a few lines of text...typical ignorance.
I never claimed to have gotten the email from him directly, nor claimed to have been the intended recipient. Myself and a few other weapons enthusiasts have a mailing list where we share tidbits of relevant information. Just like there are 40k forums and mailing lists, they exist for gun nuts too.
You're talking about idiotic assumptions based on a few lines of text and typical ignorance. This is amusing as you're demonstrating it yourself and cant seem to see that. Like assuming Im being 'nasty'. Im merely responding to your claims, which when challenged you get very defensive which shows some insecurity. You dismiss others ideas without making any relevant thoughts or reasons- and get confrontational when your own are challenged with logical points.
If you're not up for a little intellectual sparring which includes having your ideas challenged, you need better ideas, or to be able to more coherently communicate. 'Think tanks' are about having your ideas challenged- which lets them evolve past problems you cant see from your perspective. Several points against your Costco plan have been made, and each time you blindly defend the plan and make solutions which arent practical at all (like lifting TONS of rotting food to the roof to throw it out....come on...really....). If you accepted the criticism and refined the plan, and saw the value in others plans- you open up more options and possibilities.
You dont seem to be willing to see things from the perspective of others, that limits your abilities. If you dont want your ideas to be challenged, dont post them in a forum like this. Otherwise, look at it as a chance to find new holes in your plan you dont have the life experience to have seen yourself.
*Uses TA-5's to headshoot 45 zombies in less then 20 secs.*
... Why post around here? I just pointed out the most glaring flaw in his plan, and everyone ignored it.
I'll repeat, since no one is paying attention due to personal drama:
Everyone and their brother will be heading to costco (and similar stores such as wal-mart) with the same idea. In any plague situation, zombie or otherwise, your odds of avoiding infection are much higher when you avoid the vector that spreads it. In this case: people. Or zombies, which are pretty much the same thing.
BaronIveagh wrote:*Uses TA-5's to headshoot 45 zombies in less then 20 secs.*
Everyone and their brother will be heading to costco (and similar stores such as wal-mart) with the same idea. In any plague situation, zombie or otherwise, your odds of avoiding infection are much higher when you avoid the vector that spreads it. In this case: people. Or zombies, which are pretty much the same thing.
Exactly- you would only need enough food to last a few weeks while the zombies eat all the unarmed 'sheeple'. After that theres less competition for resources.
Another factor that we havent taken into account, is while we have talked about what 'type' of zombies- we wouldnt have anyway of knowing what kind they were right away. It would take some time to figure that out, and during that time avoiding them altogether would be the safest route. It would kind of suck to think theyre shuffling biter zombies, only to get a blood splash by a viral zombie. If animals arent affected by it- could the carrion eaters still be carriers?
Mistress of minis wrote:Another factor that we havent taken into account, is while we have talked about what 'type' of zombies- we wouldnt have anyway of knowing what kind they were right away. It would take some time to figure that out, and during that time avoiding them altogether would be the safest route. It would kind of suck to think theyre shuffling biter zombies, only to get a blood splash by a viral zombie. If animals arent affected by it- could the carrion eaters still be carriers?
Also, would survivors be lucky and not infected, therefor being bitten would mean getting infected, OR...... would the survivors be Carriers, infected with the desease, but unaffected by it? Something that would need to be figured out quickly, with no real safe way of testing it.
Hmmm, thats something I dont think has ever been touched on- that being a human carrier thats not affected. That would just suck, like a Zombie STD . It would require organized medical tests and quarantine procedures- would definitely make people super paranoid.
On the upside, depending on your climate, assuming they're really the undead, you only have to last a few months before zombies would disintegrate. Something I've noticed gets danced around a lot in cinema.
True- zombies and winter would make for zombi-cicles. And in the southwest 100+ degree weather would at least made sure you could smell the zombies coming.
Nope- not out in the open air- they'd rot like anyother dead critter. The air here is drier, but all the moisture & bacteria from the internal organs would still be pretty nasty. And if they did dry out- I think zombies only work when theyre 'moist'
You know, now re-thinking this, and seeing I didn't have as much fun with this thread in my earlier post, I'll post again.
Since I AM fethed in chicago, no matter how you look at it, zombie-gangsters high as a mofo roam the streets 24/7 (heh, funny, you know, chicago, guns...yeah) I won't re-think that. I would kill myself with my gun no matter what, I am not getting eaten alive, I'd rather just die and see what really happens when your dead, than to have one of the countless horrors that could happen to me in a zombie outbreak.
So, Sweden. Considering a lot of people probably would go to the castle I mentioned (it has a flakking moat, and a crank-up bridge, and the moat is literally huge, zombies would just sink and get stuck or something, they're not getting out of it.) I'll think of a different possibility.
I would have one other person with me, preferably my brother Doug, as he is pretty smart, and ran with me during our crime careers in the gak-lands of Chicago. I would kill myself of being alone, or go insane.
With that one other person being with me, I would have my Tek-9, along with oodles of ammunition, and 2 spare clips, along with a glock 9MM, with tons of ammunition and I think one other spare clip.
And these:
My brother would have probably something similar minus the swords, I can't say for sure.
And, I'd take my beastlord model to remind me of my Warhammer dreams so I don't go insane. Memories is about all we will have to entertain ourselves when we aren't running from/killing zombies.
My parents would be dead by then, like it or not, they are too old and slow to lug around, and I would have them to cry me to sleep every night.
We would drive to the very, very north of sweden, where it is barely habitable by human beings. My great uncle has a cottage in the mountains. He built a nuclear holocaust bunker under it, and you can guess whats under there. Lots of food, lots of water, lots of not dieing for a VERY, VERY long time.
Basically, we would send out groups of two at a time to search for anything, animals to eat for a change of eating most likely the same thing every day, zombies to shoot (the very, very few that would be up there, let alone SURVIVE up there)
Karon wrote:Since I AM fethed in chicago, no matter how you look at it, zombie-gangsters high as a mofo roam the streets 24/7 (heh, funny, you know, chicago, guns...yeah) I won't re-think that. I would kill myself with my gun no matter what, I am not getting eaten alive, I'd rather just die and see what really happens when your dead, than to have one of the countless horrors that could happen to me in a zombie outbreak.
Yeah, I may have won the thread.
Your bitten solution (gun to the head) is not hardcore enough. One of the first thing I would make/find/acquire is a belt, put easily armed explosives on it, and if I get bit and those of us who survived are not immune, I'm "Going Nova" so to say. Go out with a bang, and take some of those sons a' bitches with me so others can get away. And I'm not a happy meal.
The problem with swords is they start getting dull after the first five or so decapitations, or are fairly heavy for hard core zombie killing (swing a bastard sword around for a few hours and you'll know what I mean). What you want is a flanged mace. Light enough to swing all day, but lacking in the 'breakable' downside to a ball bat. Axes are also good, but too heavy for "all day action".
I'd also recommend chain mail. Zombies would have a hard time biting through it. But it's also light weight compared to, say, field plate.
I believe it was Orlanth that suggested a Halberd, which is like the Mk VI pointy stick Keeps the critters out of bite range- and is alot easier to learn the basics.
I cant really support chainmail though. The extra weight is a mobility issue, and while its not as bulky as metal plate armor- it would only provide some bite protection. It wont stop the blunt trauma if a zombie grabs you, or if a couple start having a tug of war with ya Mace is a good choice though- robust, simple in use. Wont get stuck in a skull, spine or rib cage like choppin stuff can.
Alot of SCA fighters make armor out of modern materials- like plastic- which would be adequate to protect against zombie bits if it was designed/adapted with that in mind. If you really want to get crafty, titanium chainmail with some carbon fiber plates could make a suit of full plate at around 10-15 lbs.
If i can go diving in what is essentially chain mail with sharks, I'd call that pretty good protection. Zombies aren't super strong, they can't pull you in half.
Hit the local DIY store and grab axes (not chainsaws) and gasoline to burn the bodies. Escape to the local shopping exchange, one route in, one route out.
Food, raw materials for barricades, furniture and electronics and if that wasn't awesome enough, the airports right beside it if everything goes up a certain creek.
CadianXV wrote:'Acquire' a truck. Drive to an armoury that I know the location of. Pick up rifles and ammo. Head to nearest supermarket to fill said truck with non-perishable supplies. Head to Army+Navy stores to pick up survival equipment. Drive south and 'acquire' a boat of some sort (doesn't have to be huge), hopefully meeting other survivors along the way. Sail to the Isle of White. Exterminate Undead population of Isle of White. Rebuild a military society from there. Send frequent foraging parties to the mainland to forage for supplies.
Sorted!
How do you know 5,000 people won't be trying to do the same thing?
First off, your attitude is up here...and you need to bring it down. We can have a discussion without making ridiculous assumptions. You have no idea what I have done in my life. Literally, in a 25 miles radius from me, (Downtown Seattle), I could go to at least 7 different gun shops, and obtain an AA 12, a USAS 12, OR a Saiga, I have gone in and held them. They are expensive as bewbs. You are acting like a class 3 license is hard to obtain
And when you fly me down there, and I watch you do what you are proposing, DURING a zombie apocalypse...then I will get on board with your idea. Right now, especially after your long explanation, it sounds like a LOT of hassle for little return. Have fun. Ill be in Costco.
oh....grammar and spell check are your friend..
"
Mr. Jerry Babar, President/CEO of Military Police Systems, Inc. (MPS, Inc.) of Piney Flats, Tennessee and developer of the AA-12 Shotgun, kindly answered my questions today, 23 Feb 2009, which I transcribed (possibly with some minor errors) as follows: "[I am returning] your call about the AA-12. By the 1986 Federal law, any [machine] guns made prior to 19 May 1986 are transferable, and there are 400,000 legal machine guns in the United States. Any [machine] guns made after 19 May 1986 are not transferable to civilians and cannot be [built by or owned (inaudible)] by civilians. And in fact, if I ever get my license up, I can assure you that I can't even have them [AA-12's]. I can't keep them in stock or transfer them, or somebody will have my license. There are 19, almost 20 [AA-12] guns built right now and they are with various military operations for evaluation, and they are involved with some of the manufacture of them [AA-12's]. Watch the Military Channel in June [2009] for the new Robot video that we just did. It is a really good 20-30 minute video. It will be under the "Ultimate Weapons" program. Also, the New Yorker magazine has a six page article on us. I appreciate you for calling. Thanks alot."
That kind of makes the veracity of your claims very dubious. 19, almost 20 of them built by 2009, and you're claiming at least 7 of them are in Seattle gunshops, rather than military testing ranges. Smells like something that needs a shovel to spread about the garden. A class 3 license itself isnt that hard to obtain, but the machine gun transfer IS.
BaronIveagh wrote:The problem with swords is they start getting dull after the first five or so decapitations, or are fairly heavy for hard core zombie killing (swing a bastard sword around for a few hours and you'll know what I mean). What you want is a flanged mace. Light enough to swing all day, but lacking in the 'breakable' downside to a ball bat. Axes are also good, but too heavy for "all day action".
Swords are optimal against low armour opponents, axes and maces were there to deal with armoured opponents and to use less iron in construction. Which swiords to choose, a machete is good its commonplace and you will know if you pick one up you likely have a servicable weapon, forget the overrated Japanese crap unless you have the specific marial art to use them properly. Given the skill a zweihander is best, its got everything you need from a melee weapon, and you can rerally cut yourself some killing room, still the zwersh' is an art wheras a polearm does the same sort of thing for less. Wonder why polearms were the standard medieval weapon? There are several good reasons but near the top are utter lethality and ease of use. Other than that axes are good, but I would go with a two handed dane axe (you could use a firemans axe in dane axe fighting style) figure of eight swing, keep the momentum and 'lawnmower' the zombies. Given no access to proper medieval weaponry I would go for a full length firemans axe. Given the choice most forms of polearm: glaive, bill, naginata or halberd preferably, or if you are lucky enough to know how to use it the zwersh, claymore or daikatana.
Maces and chain weapons are great weapons against living opponents that go down after sustaining massive taumas, as living people do, zombies however dont work that way, most of the start their attacks while under heavy trauma. 'Beating up' zombies is not a good idea.
BaronIveagh wrote:
I'd also recommend chain mail. Zombies would have a hard time biting through it. But it's also light weight compared to, say, field plate.
I entirely concur, and mentioned chainmail on my first post on this thread. Proper chainmail is hard to come by and the stuff found in castles is not survicable unlike plate, however reenactors chain is likely almost as good. Real chainmail will have sealed rivites, reebnactors chainmail does not, it is closed with a jewellers vice. This would cause problems on a battlefield, but should do well enough against zombies at least until they have you on the ground and start pulling from all directions, but by then unless rescue is very fast you are gone anyway.
Chainmail is a second skin, and there are very few gaps, and is weak only to piercing weapons. The chain stops slashing and claw attacks, padded gambeson underneath is what stops trauma. Your chain attire should ideally be head to toe medieval replaced only by a modern bike helmet for clear sealed vision and modern boots, with perhaps a duster on top.
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Mistress of minis wrote:I believe it was Orlanth that suggested a Halberd, which is like the Mk VI pointy stick Keeps the critters out of bite range- and is alot easier to learn the basics.
Yep. On top of that you can concentrate your efforts on a narrow entryway when in 'poke' mode, clear a path in 'sweep', and deal with a floored opponent decisively in 'chop'.
Mistress of minis wrote:
I cant really support chainmail though. The extra weight is a mobility issue, and while its not as bulky as metal plate armor- it would only provide some bite protection. It wont stop the blunt trauma if a zombie grabs you, or if a couple start having a tug of war with ya Mace is a good choice though- robust, simple in use. Wont get stuck in a skull, spine or rib cage like choppin stuff can.
Have you worn chainmail? Chain is like 'iron flab', it distributes its mass around the body like you put on some pounds over Christmas but did not otherwise compromise your health. With well made chain you can carry a lot of weight in armour and not notice, I have worn heavy chain 'all day' and gone about normally, you can even forget you are wearing it. Though things can be very different for ladies. Chain natruially deposits most of its weight on the hips and shoulder the rest directly on the skn surface. For ladies this also means the a heavy load on the upper halves of the breasts, which are not a load bearing surface in any normal wear outside some peoples idea of 'playtime'. In fact depending on the girl the breasts might have to take the weight of the entire front sheet of the chainmail from the armpits downwards, a good proportion of the weight of the entire armour. Sports bras might help, or a sports pectoral, or if the gambeson is also stacked to cantilever the weight back onto the shoulders where it belongs. Size A girls wont have any problems, but any girl beyond a C cup should consider wearing a cuirass instead.
Mistress of minis wrote:
Alot of SCA fighters make armor out of modern materials- like plastic- which would be adequate to protect against zombie bits if it was designed/adapted with that in mind. If you really want to get crafty, titanium chainmail with some carbon fiber plates could make a suit of full plate at around 10-15 lbs.
I have heard a lot about ultra modern mail, some of it is really good designs, others less so. But as the SCA et al are not actually trying to 'cut to the point' in their fighting the difference is not put to the test. Unless there are obvious gaps both should be good against zombies. Armet and salet might look cool, but I would still go with a bike helmet or riot police helmet though, you need to keep the infected blood spraying everywhere away from your face.
I entirely concur, and mentioned chainmail on my first post on this thread. Proper chainmail is hard to come by and the stuff found in castles is not survicable unlike plate, however reenactors chain is likely almost as good. Real chainmail will have sealed rivites, reebnactors chainmail does not, it is closed with a jewellers vice. This would cause problems on a battlefield, but should do well enough against zombies at least until they have you on the ground and start pulling from all directions, but by then unless rescue is very fast you are gone anyway.
Chainmail is a second skin, and there are very few gaps, and is weak only to piercing weapons. The chain stops slashing and claw attacks, padded gambeson underneath is what stops trauma. Your chain attire should ideally be head to toe medieval replaced only by a modern bike helmet for clear sealed vision and modern boots, with perhaps a duster on top.
Have you worn chainmail? Chain is like 'iron flab', it distributes its mass around the body like you put on some pounds over Christmas but did not otherwise compromise your health. With well made chain you can carry a lot of weight in armour and not notice, I have worn heavy chain 'all day' and gone about normally, you can even forget you are wearing it. Though things can be very different for ladies. Chain natruially deposits most of its weight on the hips and shoulder the rest directly on the skn surface. For ladies this also means the a heavy load on the upper halves of the breasts, which are not a load bearing surface in any normal wear outside some peoples idea of 'playtime'. In fact depending on the girl the breasts might have to take the weight of the entire front sheet of the chainmail from the armpits downwards, a good proportion of the weight of the entire armour. Sports bras might help, or a sports pectoral, or if the gambeson is also stacked to cantilever the weight back onto the shoulders where it belongs. Size A girls wont have any problems, but any girl beyond a C cup should consider wearing a cuirass instead.
1st - i trust this guy with my armor needs. But if the Zombies are diseased don't you have to worry about zombie saliva dripping into your helmet? I mean if you were able to make the armour one big set that zombies COULDN'T remove individual parts, wouldn't you have to worry about that. Although this is why I would also trust this guy, he suggested a biker helmet, preferably one that is sealed
2nd - well we'll just have to keep the ladies out of the melee now won't we
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Mistress of minis wrote: If animals arent affected by it- could the carrion eaters still be carriers?
Isn't it possible that animals still CARRY the virus, like if a bird ate a zombie, its blood and matter will be on the bird so even though it isn't infected it could still CARRY the virus right? So that takes all scavenging animals off the food list.
I see your castle and raise you, a castle on a cliff
in my backpack i would carry water, trail mix, survival tin, three clips for the gun, gas mask and multi vitamin tablets
my attitude towards other survivors would be somewhat commisar like with a "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude
the vehicle would be used to collect food & suplies from all the shops on the royal mile incuding the GW. yey, i can carry the hobby into the new age
FM Ninja 048 wrote:I see your castle and raise you, a castle on a cliff
No difference, zombies arent into tunneling once you have your 30' or more it doesnt matter if you have Beaumaris (Edward I's incomplete masterpiece) or Tigers Nest (the castle in Bhutan built atop a very high cliff)
FM Ninja 048 wrote:
in my backpack i would carry water, trail mix, survival tin, three clips for the gun, gas mask and multi vitamin tablets
Chain mace, not good, take an axe for the close in work.
FM Ninja 048 wrote:
my attitude towards other survivors would be somewhat commisar like with a "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude
Not good, you need friends
"Observe first, avoid, ask questions or shoot later"
FM Ninja 048 wrote:
the vehicle would be used to collect food & suplies from all the shops on the royal mile incuding the GW. yey, i can carry the hobby into the new age
Good call.
Morale is important, looting a GW gives you plenty to do inside your keep that is not survival related and a distraction form the words problems. Boardgames would be the natural first step, small compact, reusable and communal; in fact they were listed as essential items, not secondary items, for people to take into bomb shelters.
Useful points i will refine my masterplan, a question though how long wolud the dakka servers be up for once the zombies hit, would we be able to comunicate through them to band together?
Internet would only last as long as thne daisty chain of servers, we are talking hours.
Nice castle you have, no need to change that. Nothing wrong with castles on cliffs, you just dont get much extra benefit, and will likely not have access for any artics you commandeer. You might have to rely on a small van for your supply runs. More trips = more risk.
You wont be alone in as castle though, not only you get those who purposely travel there, you get locals who run there by happenstance.
Ok...that makes sense.
Yea I don't really know anything about Scotland climate being in America and all. =/
unfortunatly I don't even know that much about castles :(
Commissar NIkev wrote:...with the castle. What about Water? You need clean water and if zombies get in the water it will contaminate it.
All castles have a well, its the first thing dug. If you cannot get to a sustainable warter supply the site is not good enough for a castle. Many castle wells on good sites had to dig several hundred feet to water, but dig they did, no water no castle.
A well might be capped but is unlikely to be no longer there.
Commissar NIkev wrote:...with the castle. What about Water? You need clean water and if zombies get in the water it will contaminate it.
All castles have a well, its the first thing dug. If you cannot get to a sustainable warter supply the site is not good enough for a castle. Many castle wells on good sites had to dig several hundred feet to water, but dig they did, no water no castle.
A well might be capped but is unlikely to be no longer there.
Thats logical....
@FM Ninja 048 - The coins would probably contaminate the water.
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:An easier alternative to chainmail would be (taking a bite outta Mad Max here) is padding.
Football and Hockey padding is really big and could limit the mobility/agility advantage that you want to have over a zombie.
I would suggest using something like paintballing armor, as it's lightweight and could stop a bite, but doesn't restrict movement.
Or you could go the route of certain law enforcement agencies, and wear low caliber bullet proof armor.
true, but a zombie can only bite through what a human could bite through so if you cant eat it they can't, therefor masssive amounts of armour is overcompinsating you don't really need that much to fend of a bit, jeans and a ripstop jacket would do.
Commissar NIkev wrote:...with the castle. What about Water? You need clean water and if zombies get in the water it will contaminate it.
All castles have a well, its the first thing dug. If you cannot get to a sustainable warter supply the site is not good enough for a castle. Many castle wells on good sites had to dig several hundred feet to water, but dig they did, no water no castle.
A well might be capped but is unlikely to be no longer there.
Thats logical....
@FM Ninja 048 - The coins would probably contaminate the water.
Coins wouldn't necessarly contaminate the water,coins (silver and copper ionazation) was used for centuries in keeping water fresh,American pioneers used coins in their barreled water supplies to prevent bacterial growth.
Armor is also a matter of climate. A full suit of chain with the proper padding underneath would cook someone here in Az about 9 months out of the year. Having had to wear riot armor in July, you get about an hour in the sun before you need to be rotated out to rehydrate and get your core temp down.
What about vehicles? Id rather run a zombie over than have to chop them up
Commissar NIkev wrote:....your forgeting about saliva....if you get cut and get blood/saliva/anyotherbodyfluid in that cut its over. so I doubt Jeans would be a good Idea.
We have to allow for some leeway regarding contaminated fluids or chainsaws wouldn't be weapons of choice.
I'd suggest either a dirt bike, ebacuse they are rugged and relatively simple to learn how to use, tho it's better for using to slip away from a zombie.
The attack transport would prolly be an armored car that cna be found in banks or companies that tranport valuables. Outfit it with a dozer blade, and problem solved.
A push bike is probably the best. A dirt bike can be heard from 8000000000000000000 miles away, so will attract everything in the world to your position.
A push bike is faster over long distances than walking or running, and it is very quiet, light enough to lug over walls etc. And you can still hook on a trailer to carry supplies/team mates.
I watched this recently but has anbody concidered a senario like "Doomsday", the movie where they just quarintine scotland because of infection to contain the outbreak, would it be possible to make it through the quarintine zone it this way the case? plus the infected country's economy just sagnates as the rest of the world tries to ignore it how would this work out, in the movie an infection pops up in london, but that was a virus not proper zombies so basically can zombies be quarintined or would it end up like 28 weeks later?
FM Ninja 048 wrote:I watched this recently but has anbody concidered a senario like "Doomsday", the movie where they just quarintine scotland because of infection to contain the outbreak, would it be possible to make it through the quarintine zone it this way the case? plus the infected country's economy just sagnates as the rest of the world tries to ignore it how would this work out, in the movie an infection pops up in london, but that was a virus not proper zombies so basically can zombies be quarintined or would it end up like 28 weeks later?
It would depend, How fast did we discover it? How many people has it infected before we discovered it? How many tourists have left said area unknowingly infected with it? Is it Airborne? Can we get it from animals? How badly did the government(s) feth up the cure?
As for vehicle, I would avoid most vehicles, probably keep a Pick'em up truck for a quick getaway, but other than that, it would be hard to keep the gas for it when you would need the gas for other needs (Warmth, Cooking, stuff like that).
How many of you have rules set up? I have a couple rules for when I hole up:
Rule #1: No acting like a zombie or I will shoot you, and if you get bitten you have 1 hour to get yourself out of my sight before I start shooting. (Provided survivors aren't immune, anyway)
Rule #2: No Smoking, We are stuck in a small farmhouse, and I don't want to have to smell that....
Rule #3: No hardcore drinking, last thing we need is someone to get piss drunk, think their invincible/want to pee outside/don't care, and tear down part of our defenses.
Rule #4: It's either usefull, or dead weight. This includes people.
Rules sound like a good idea.
I use some variation of these in my everyday life, LOL.
1) One Speed: Mine. If you cna over take me, leave me behind. I can track if I need to.
2) You get bitten, one round in between the eyes. I expect no less for myself.
3) I will not heistate to kill you if you suffer from "Terminal Idiocy." The only cure is death.
4) If you don't have anything useful to say, shut your face hole.
Slarg232 wrote:How many of you have rules set up? I have a couple rules for when I hole up:
Rule #1: No acting like a zombie or I will shoot you, and if you get bitten you have 1 hour to get yourself out of my sight before I start shooting. (Provided survivors aren't immune, anyway)
Rule #2: No Smoking, We are stuck in a small farmhouse, and I don't want to have to smell that....
Rule #3: No hardcore drinking, last thing we need is someone to get piss drunk, think their invincible/want to pee outside/don't care, and tear down part of our defenses.
Rule #4: It's either usefull, or dead weight. This includes people.
5) Keep it secret, keep it safe - light and noise discipline at all times.
6) Knowledge is power - everyone is expected to learn new skills (medicine, engineering, etc) and teach them to the group - everyone should know enough to at least help with every aspect of life.
7) For the greater good - risk is not an option - even if you really want to get that petrol from the station, if it is too risky, retreat and come up with another plan - lives are worth more than anything.
8) Check, check, check again - Check that you have all your equipment before you go out, check someone knows where you are going, check everyone in the party knows the plan and has everything they need, most important of all - check everyone (head to foot) for injuries and bites after every trip into the outside world.
9) Fitness first - Everyone must keep fit.
10) Keep busy - idle hands are the devil's play thing, and bored people start to get itchy. Keep busy with activity, talent shows, teaching, growing food, learning, etc as much as possible.
While the majority of Slargs,GES & Silvers "rules" are good ones (although I take exception to the smoking one),steadfast rules could just as likely get you killed(or create problems) as well.
A set of guidlines is of course needed,but remaining fluid will probably be a better state of mind.
For example,Silvers rule # 7..in many cases "risk" is going to have to be an option if you wish to remain alive.
Concerning vehicles,it deppends on the area your in,GES idea concerning dirt bikes is good for open areas and quick recon,and IMO camper equiped pick up trucks would be a must have,along with modified U-huals for "supply raids".
What ever the vehicles,I would advise older models as they are much easier to repair and maintain.
Obviously for number 7, "risk" is subjective. If you need something and will not be able to exist without it, the risk of attacking a large group of zombies is lower than the risk of not attacking them.
@FITZZ: You'd eventually run out of cigarettes, and unless you feel like tending to your own crop of tobacco, picking it, drying them out, then rolling them, and then smoking them. And you'd have to rotate the soil every year with peanut/soy/kudzu anyway to continue growing tobacco.
And for vehicles: A mountain bike is good, only as long as oyu cna ride it. If someone isn't physically fit enough to ride it up a steep hill fats enough to escape form zombies, they become tired out, and become a liability. Which is where a dirt/high performance bike comes in.
Not all are incredibly loud. Some are only loud if you decide to rev the bike, in which case you suffer from terminal idiocy, and I will shoot your gas tank.
COurse, if your ride a chopper, those always seem to be loud. Tho I may be mistaken.
Regular cars are a no-no. Too flimsy, can't push through masses of the undead clogging the streets very well. Also, try not to drive over them in your MBT. Body parts can, actually, clog your treds.
M3 Half Track would be ideal except for the fairly low open back. Humber Pig is a viable wheeled option that some swat teams picked up when they were decommissioned.
Russian BMP 1 or 3 would be the bomb. Damn things are rugged as gak. Brads require too much maintenance. You'll want something that you won't need a lot of parts for in a vehicle that runs off available fuel. If the zombies are petering out or you don't have a large swarm, then a duce will do you nicely, particularly the mobile command center/tool shop type with the hard backs.
Exactly ,that's why I'm more in favor of "guidlines and flexiblity".
@ GES.
Well,given the fact that maintaing ones ability to "run like hell" if needed is going to be very important to ones survival in a zombie infested world,I may have to cut back on the smoking,plus the smell of cigarettes may give away positions in certain tactical situations,so no smoking there.
However,in a "Fortress" that's already surrounded...smoke 'em if ya got 'em.
Guidelines would be better than rules, and no pets as they may carry the virus and not get infected.
also would a good old 4x4 with a crude dozerblade, plates over the wheels and bars over the windows be just as good and more easily avalible than a military grade apc
and on the cigs could you not just grab your packets when you went raiding for food that would last a while as zombies don't smoke
While there arent many in my area- snow plows seem like ready made for dealing with zombies. A purpose built plow designed to handle heavy loads and traction designed for slippery surfaces(as blood is really slippery til it starts to dry). And while not great on gas, they'll get farther than tracked vehicles on the same amount of fuel.
Mistress of minis wrote:While there arent many in my area- snow plows seem like ready made for dealing with zombies. A purpose built plow designed to handle heavy loads and traction designed for slippery surfaces(as blood is really slippery til it starts to dry). And while not great on gas, they'll get farther than tracked vehicles on the same amount of fuel.
good idea and you could custom the back so its easyer to get in/out of so you could fill it with suplies
Mistress of minis wrote:While there arent many in my area- snow plows seem like ready made for dealing with zombies. A purpose built plow designed to handle heavy loads and traction designed for slippery surfaces(as blood is really slippery til it starts to dry). And while not great on gas, they'll get farther than tracked vehicles on the same amount of fuel.
Problem is, most Snowplows aren't really that fast, so would quickly be overwelmed by a horde.
5) Keep it secret, keep it safe - light and noise discipline at all times.
6) Knowledge is power - everyone is expected to learn new skills (medicine, engineering, etc) and teach them to the group - everyone should know enough to at least help with every aspect of life.
7) For the greater good - risk is not an option - even if you really want to get that petrol from the station, if it is too risky, retreat and come up with another plan - lives are worth more than anything.
8) Check, check, check again - Check that you have all your equipment before you go out, check someone knows where you are going, check everyone in the party knows the plan and has everything they need, most important of all - check everyone (head to foot) for injuries and bites after every trip into the outside world.
9) Fitness first - Everyone must keep fit.
10) Keep busy - idle hands are the devil's play thing, and bored people start to get itchy. Keep busy with activity, talent shows, teaching, growing food, learning, etc as much as possible.
Definatly a good 6. going to have to add them to mine.
As for them being "guidelines", in my town the only one I would really have problems enforcing would be the drinking one, since this town is filled with teenagers whose parents help supply the booze, they would not really care for me to tell them not to get drunk (though put them all in a small building together, and I gerruntee they will have the town repopulated in 9 months ). But anyway, the people in my area are pretty much useless, the kind of people who talk big and bad but the moment someone stands up to them, they back down. I highly doubt any of them will know what to do if/when the apocolypse hits. But then, I'm graduating saturday, so if it happens on 2012 I'll be long gone from here.
Of course the other upside of snow plows would be that they would be most available in regions where,if the book World War Z is to be "belived",zombies freeze solid and become inanimate during half the year.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slarg232 wrote:
As for them being "guidelines", in my town the only one I would really have problems enforcing would be the drinking one, since this town is filled with teenagers whose parents help supply the booze, they would not really care for me to tell them not to get drunk (though put them all in a small building together, and I gerruntee they will have the town repopulated in 9 months ). But anyway, the people in my area are pretty much useless, the kind of people who talk big and bad but the moment someone stands up to them, they back down. I highly doubt any of them will know what to do if/when the apocolypse hits. But then, I'm graduating saturday, so if it happens on 2012 I'll be long gone from here.
Not to worry,the vast majority of boozing teens(and adults as well) won't survive the first week.
I have thought about this, and I have some problems about the first few weeks...
First, I sew together three backpacks with metal inside so they don't rip. Get the crude lawn weapons I have, (three Iron 1-foot bars, 15 HUGE knives, bush clippers, battery-powered, huge-teethed chainsaw, and a skate board and a bat) that will fill the first 1.5 backpacks, and take up 34 pounds, 1/3 my carring limit. Then, I'll get my airsoft gun, paint it, just in case I need to bluff. A phone also, to call my hunt-crazed uncle to see if he's still hunt-crazed instead of brain-crazed, go over and get a gun. I'll get with him, and then we'll start a group either in my shcool, or on the road. That's the plan for the first few months.
lord of the ghosts wrote:I have thought about this, and I have some problems about the first few weeks...
First, I sew together three backpacks with metal inside so they don't rip. Get the crude lawn weapons I have, (three Iron 1-foot bars, 15 HUGE knives, bush clippers, battery-powered, huge-teethed chainsaw, and a skate board and a bat) that will fill the first 1.5 backpacks, and take up 34 pounds, 1/3 my carring limit. Then, I'll get my airsoft gun, paint it, just in case I need to bluff. A phone also, to call my hunt-crazed uncle to see if he's still hunt-crazed instead of brain-crazed, go over and get a gun. I'll get with him, and then we'll start a group either in my shcool, or on the road. That's the plan for the first few months.
Ditch the battery powered weapons and skateboard. Also, you don't need so many knives - you will be able to find lots more later. Also, get a single, larger bag, preferably one which doesn't have loads of straps hanging off it, and which is comfortable and easy to slip in and out of (nothing worse getting caught by your bag and not being able to get out of it ).
Unless the airsoft gun is really good, I probably would not bother with it, though I guess you can use it to cause a distraction (shoot some pellets near zombies to draw them away from yourself (I imagine the gun itself is fairly quiet, and you will be shooting at glass, metal, anything that will make lots of noise)).
I would also suggest that your plan is essentially for the first couple of days, if that. Beware of jammed phone lines and lots of people heading for the school in the first few days.
Slarg232 wrote:Problem is, most Snowplows aren't really that fast, so would quickly be overwelmed by a horde.
Snowplows are purpose built on modified truck frames, like dump trucks and other construction type vehicles. They arent sports cars but they'll do 50-55 mph. They only go slow when theyre pushing a few tons of snow.... Dunno why you think it would be slower than zombies.
lord of the ghosts wrote:I have thought about this, and I have some problems about the first few weeks...
First, I sew together three backpacks with metal inside so they don't rip. Get the crude lawn weapons I have, (three Iron 1-foot bars, 15 HUGE knives, bush clippers, battery-powered, huge-teethed chainsaw, and a skate board and a bat) that will fill the first 1.5 backpacks, and take up 34 pounds, 1/3 my carring limit. Then, I'll get my airsoft gun, paint it, just in case I need to bluff. A phone also, to call my hunt-crazed uncle to see if he's still hunt-crazed instead of brain-crazed, go over and get a gun. I'll get with him, and then we'll start a group either in my shcool, or on the road. That's the plan for the first few months.
Ditch the battery powered weapons and skateboard. Also, you don't need so many knives - you will be able to find lots more later. Also, get a single, larger bag, preferably one which doesn't have loads of straps hanging off it, and which is comfortable and easy to slip in and out of (nothing worse getting caught by your bag and not being able to get out of it ).
Unless the airsoft gun is really good, I probably would not bother with it, though I guess you can use it to cause a distraction (shoot some pellets near zombies to draw them away from yourself (I imagine the gun itself is fairly quiet, and you will be shooting at glass, metal, anything that will make lots of noise)).
I would also suggest that your plan is essentially for the first couple of days, if that. Beware of jammed phone lines and lots of people heading for the school in the first few days.
Silver summed this up fairly well,battery powerd weapons are to much trouble,save battery powerd items for things like a radio.
Knives are terrible anti zombie weapons,if your close enough to stab them (which is pointless anyway,unless you penetrate the skull) they are close enough to bite you,one good k-bar and perhaps a swiss army knife will suit your needs.
The baseball bat is ok,aliminium is much better than a wooden one though,but the airsoft gun(?),using it to "bluff" will likely get you killed,and as a distraction technique...meh,throw a rock.
Also,phone lines are going to be pretty useless after all hell breaks loose,so a phone might be pointless,and as noted,while schools may be safe areas,they also may fill up quick...and eventualy become one big buffet.
Finding your "hunting crazy" uncle ,or even better,some fire power of your own,would possibly be your first best step.
Slarg232 wrote:Problem is, most Snowplows aren't really that fast, so would quickly be overwelmed by a horde.
Snowplows are purpose built on modified truck frames, like dump trucks and other construction type vehicles. They arent sports cars but they'll do 50-55 mph. They only go slow when theyre pushing a few tons of snow.... Dunno why you think it would be slower than zombies.
In my area, Snowplows are the type of thing that no matter what weather it is, it's a traffic jam behind it.
.... But then in my area, a traffic jam is also only like..... 4 cars going less than 40 MPH, too.
The problem with a snow plow if you'll eventually be pushing several tons of zombies.
If you really want to go this route, use a mine flail. You can make them out of every day angle iron and lengths of chain. All you need is a PTO to spin it. And a rain coat. It's going to be messy.
And the mace is better then the zweihander. You don't beat the m up with it, you crush their skulls. A footman's flanged mace can get some terrific force behind it, since they're designed to stave in plate armor. And it's lighter and more portable.
BaronIveagh wrote:The problem with a snow plow if you'll eventually be pushing several tons of zombies.
The snow plow will push the zombies aside, even a digger will to some extent.
BaronIveagh wrote:
If you really want to go this route, use a mine flail. You can make them out of every day angle iron and lengths of chain. All you need is a PTO to spin it. And a rain coat. It's going to be messy.
Mine flail, I am sure you can pick one up at your local garage.
BaronIveagh wrote:
And the mace is better then the zweihander. You don't beat the m up with it, you crush their skulls. A footman's flanged mace can get some terrific force behind it, since they're designed to stave in plate armor. And it's lighter and more portable.
The mace is a nasty weapon for use against living targets, but traditionally blunt vs zombies is a poor choice. A smashed skull is not going to do much to a zombie short term, you will need lots of hits to do enough accumulative damage to take one down. You need to obliterate the brain stem, cut straight to it.
Ummm, snowplows are designed to push stuff aside- not pile it up like a bulldozer blade.
And a mine flail, I think thats like antiquated tech that was phased out in the 50's. Regardless, it would be on a military base- and would require knowing how to operate a tracked vehicle which would also eat through alot more fuel.
Mistress of minis wrote:Ummm, snowplows are designed to push stuff aside- not pile it up like a bulldozer blade.
And a mine flail, I think thats like antiquated tech that was phased out in the 50's. Regardless, it would be on a military base- and would require knowing how to operate a tracked vehicle which would also eat through alot more fuel.
It would be on very specific military bases too, its is not standard equipment by a longshot. Most other things people have asked for can be sourced, by one or more community groups.
Actually, you're thinking of the big cow catcher style plows, which, at least in New York, have been largely replaced by the bulldozer style plows. For moving snow, they're good, and cheap, and are bolted to non-renforced frame trucks that happen to have stainless steel salt beds.
Zombies are heavy and would easily pile up in front of them. Heck, we had a case here a year or so ago where just one person being run over wrecked one. Imagine forty or fifty piled up in front of it!
Nope, totally outdated. They'd never use them now. Can't imagine where you'd find one.
Point of fact: you can make one in your OWN HOME to mount on any vehicle that has a winch or a power take off. The original ones were improvised in the field in North Africa. And believe me, Rommel was a lot scarier then zombies back then!
And since they were found to tear apart bocage, I think they'll do a number on zombies.
Mistress of minis wrote:
And a mine flail, I think thats like antiquated tech that was phased out in the 50's.
No, they're still in current use, and are frequently found in the inventories of humanitarian organizations.
BaronIveagh wrote:Actually, you're thinking of the big cow catcher style plows, which, at least in New York, have been largely replaced by the bulldozer style plows. For moving snow, they're good, and cheap, and are bolted to non-renforced frame trucks that happen to have stainless steel salt beds.
Zombies are heavy and would easily pile up in front of them. Heck, we had a case here a year or so ago where just one person being run over wrecked one. Imagine forty or fifty piled up in front of it!
Flat plows don't push snow straight ahead, they are angled towards the side you wish the snow to be pushed. It doesn't matter though, if a massive crowd of bodies is in front of you, you aren't going to drive through it.
BaronIveagh wrote:
And since they were found to tear apart bocage, I think they'll do a number on zombies.
They will also break quickly as the chains become stuck in the zombies. Concussion blasts and shrapnel are nowhere near as difficult to pass through as human flesh. There's also the issue of covering everything you need to be able to touch in infected blood; requiring sterilization.
dogma wrote:
They will also break quickly as the chains become stuck in the zombies. Concussion blasts and shrapnel are nowhere near as difficult to pass through as human flesh. There's also the issue of covering everything you need to be able to touch in infected blood; requiring sterilization.
Depends if it's an old or new style, and the thickness of the chain. A Sherman Crab could tear apart a hedgerow (and the guys on the other side), which is a hell of a lot tougher then any group of people, and only loose a few links if that. I totally agree about the blood thing. I've never understood why heroes could be smeared in gore and never get infected. Maybe it's only transmitted via saliva?
But believe me, if you hit group of zombies with the heavy gauge chain ones, it'd look like feeding a cat into a chipper shredder. I mean, hell, it does that with live men, I can't imagine it would be any different for dead ones.
BaronIveagh wrote:
Depends if it's an old or new style, and the thickness of the chain. A Sherman Crab could tear apart a hedgerow (and the guys on the other side), which is a hell of a lot tougher then any group of people, and only loose a few links if that.
I've never heard of Sherman crabs being used against hedgerows, not in significant numbers anyway. The bulk of the work was done by bulldozers, and Cullen Cutters. The Bocage hedgerows were hundreds of years old, and composed of trees, bushes, and shrubs with deep root systemss. I doubt any flail would be useful against it.
Additionally, as far as this argument is concerned, the crab is nearly useless as an example. Its mine flail was powered by the main engine and, when engaged, slowed the tank to a maximum speed of ~1 mph. This design gave the crab's flail a lot of power, which allowed it to pass through barbed wire obstacles. You might be able to mulch the zombies in front of you, but the ones that will soon be at your sides will pose a nominal threat given the reduction in speed caused by such a drive system.
Its also important to remember that earlier mine flails were highly unreliable, and prone to tangling in barbed wire. Unless you plan on mounting a large secondary power plant on your vehicle, or drawing from an auxiliary transmission, your flail won't be doing much to a wall of zombies. It may take out a few, but is highly likely to become overburdened. Note what happens when you take an electric weed-whacker to the base of tall grass.
FM Ninja 048 wrote:I see your castle and raise you, a castle on a cliff
in my backpack i would carry water, trail mix, survival tin, three clips for the gun, gas mask and multi vitamin tablets
my attitude towards other survivors would be somewhat commisar like with a "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude
the vehicle would be used to collect food & suplies from all the shops on the royal mile incuding the GW. yey, i can carry the hobby into the new age
Grrr, Edinburgh was my idea for 6 years, you steal my idea!!!
FM Ninja 048 wrote:I see your castle and raise you, a castle on a cliff
in my backpack i would carry water, trail mix, survival tin, three clips for the gun, gas mask and multi vitamin tablets
my attitude towards other survivors would be somewhat commisar like with a "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude
the vehicle would be used to collect food & suplies from all the shops on the royal mile incuding the GW. yey, i can carry the hobby into the new age
Grrr, Edinburgh was my idea for 6 years, you steal my idea!!!
don't worry all dakkites are welcome, we'll just have to watch out for the glaswegien cannibals but other than that we'll be fine just load the 1 o'clock gun with cutlery
The school is a good diea, i don't see why people keep thinking it's not.
Most schools, sadly for the education system but not the apocalypse, are quite fortress like.
My school was built on top of a mountain to prevent kids from ditching classes to go somewhere, as it's to far from anyplace to do that. It has several large doors designed to take heat levels from explosions (the school board was worried about kids going on rampages using homemade explosives.) for a consatsnt 24 hours, and has several gates that are sued in malls to close down the shop.
Add to that you can use the woodshop, which most schools have, to build barricades or weapons.
Or just use the desks, tables, computers, tvs, and bookshelves to make defensvie perimeters in a pinch, and you're set for at leats a little while.
And you've got a steady supply of food and drinks if you find and turn on the emergency generators quick enough to power the freezer and home ec rooms back up. If the school has a rifle team as well, it isn't that hard to open the gun safe and take the weapons and ammo from inside to use.
Sure, they're only .22s, but it's a good enough weapon for a beginner to use, and the ammo is light enough that it cna be carried for a long time with a lot of it.
Obviously there are flaws to the plan, if someoen would point them out I'm sure there'd be a way to work aorund these.
Yes I have used axes before. I have thrown them at targets before and used them in scouts when I was younger.
But I will admit defeat on the missing hands clause because I happen to like my hands.
Although why throw them when I can simply decapitate?
The same thing about turning is also true of splitting mauls. (Combining the thrill of both axe and sledge!)
By the way, don't use one of those to fight zombies. Yes, they would shatter like glass, but, you would get tired within an hour or two of combat with it as your weapon.
fallen_wolfborn wrote:Yes I have used axes before. I have thrown them at targets before and used them in scouts when I was younger.
But I will admit defeat on the missing hands clause because I happen to like my hands.
Although why throw them when I can simply decapitate?
Just my own opinion,but I would avoid axes/hatchets all together for CC with zombies (wich in itself should be avoided,unless absulotely needed),in favor of maces,flails or even aluminum baseball bats,crushing the skull is going to be a lot easier than decapitating the zombie.
fallen_wolfborn wrote:So hand axes for the win in melee at least... or katanas.
Not even close. A katana will dull after a few strokes, even if you're a pro. See this lampshaded in Highschool of the Dead.
Note: Zombies most likely sense by sound or vibration, since optic nerves degrade past usability fairly rapidly after death. This means that plans involving something like a thumper (see Dune) might lure them into areas which can then be napalmed. Or just prepared with a petrol/Styrofoam jelled fuel concoction and hit with a flare. Fwoosh.
I never go anywhere without my crowbar. Seriously I'm not making that up, it's been with me for 18 years now and still works fine at... well... everything. I'm not talking about taking off heads necessarily (it would make a good dent I guess) but as a great last minute getaway device, you can never go wrong with the trusty crowbar for those annoying nailed-shut upper story windows, or the access to the roof... or the subway tunnel, or the supermarket. Crowbar is definitely on my packing list.
Automatically Appended Next Post: crowbar, big backpack, sword, and canned goods
I'm already making my shopping list just to be prepared because this could go down any day now.
fallen_wolfborn wrote:So hand axes for the win in melee at least... or katanas.
Not even close. A katana will dull after a few strokes, even if you're a pro. See this lampshaded in Highschool of the Dead.
Note: Zombies most likely sense by sound or vibration, since optic nerves degrade past usability fairly rapidly after death. This means that plans involving something like a thumper (see Dune) might lure them into areas which can then be napalmed. Or just prepared with a petrol/Styrofoam jelled fuel concoction and hit with a flare. Fwoosh.
Do we not remember the gospel of Max L Brooks, hmm?
fallen_wolfborn wrote:So hand axes for the win in melee at least... or katanas.
Not even close. A katana will dull after a few strokes, even if you're a pro. See this lampshaded in Highschool of the Dead.
Note: Zombies most likely sense by sound or vibration, since optic nerves degrade past usability fairly rapidly after death. This means that plans involving something like a thumper (see Dune) might lure them into areas which can then be napalmed. Or just prepared with a petrol/Styrofoam jelled fuel concoction and hit with a flare. Fwoosh.
Do we not remember the gospel of Max L Brooks, hmm?
According to the gospel of Max L Brooks.
"The one handed hatchet is a good weapon of last resort.
If you find yourself cornerd,and larger weapons are useless,a hatchet blow will more than take care of an attacker."
Also (paraphrased) from the gospel of Max L Brooks.
Hearing & Smell seem to be the 2 senses zombies depend on the most.
dogma wrote:If you're in melee you've already been infected.
BaronIveagh wrote:No, not in numbers, but they could (and did) in a pinch, according to my grandfather's best friend, who drove one.
... I'm trying to picture the zombies threatening a buttoned up Sherman... and not succeeding...
They could get into, and jam, the tracks. They could jam the air intakes for the engine. They could block the gun, or penetrate the hull ports.
Other then the tracks, all those things require intelligence. Which seems to be the one thing that most sources state zombies seem to lack.
On World War Z: Max is wrong, in a lot of ways. While, no, you cannot burn a zombie to ash with napalm, the ensuing cooking will render them re-dead just the same. That much heat can and will destroy brain tissues and ligaments enough that if the zombie isn't dead, they won't be able to move, and can be quickly eliminated while immobile.
FM Ninja 048 wrote:
don't worry all dakkites are welcome, we'll just have to watch out for the glaswegien cannibals but other than that we'll be fine just load the 1 o'clock gun with cutlery
I was going to get annoyed at this comment, but then I remembered the colour of the Edinburgh Buses and thought I couldn't kick a man when they're down.
BaronIveagh wrote:
Other then the tracks, all those things require intelligence. Which seems to be the one thing that most sources state zombies seem to lack.
Intelligence, or luck, which is an important thing to consider when facing a horde. Additionally, I don't think I've seen any zombie movie in which zombies are entirely devoid of intelligence. They still lash out at targets, and move to walk through doors rather than running into walls.
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:The school is a good diea, i don't see why people keep thinking it's not.
Most schools, sadly for the education system but not the apocalypse, are quite fortress like.
My school was built on top of a mountain to prevent kids from ditching classes to go somewhere, as it's to far from anyplace to do that.
It has several large doors designed to take heat levels from explosions (the school board was worried about kids going on rampages using homemade explosives.) for a consatsnt 24 hours,
and has several gates that are sued in malls to close down the shop.
Add to that you can use the woodshop, which most schools have, to build barricades or weapons.
Or just use the desks, tables, computers, tvs, and bookshelves to make defensvie perimeters in a pinch, and you're set for at leats a little while.
And you've got a steady supply of food and drinks if you find and turn on the emergency generators quick enough to power the freezer and home ec rooms back up.
If the school has a rifle team as well, it isn't that hard to open the gun safe and take the weapons and ammo from inside to use.
Sure, they're only .22s, but it's a good enough weapon for a beginner to use, and the ammo is light enough that it cna be carried for a long time with a lot of it.
Obviously there are flaws to the plan, if someoen would point them out I'm sure there'd be a way to work aorund these.
Dude you school sounds amazing(not the fact that its the school but what it contains)
*Problems I saw*
Food - Dude your in a high school, I don't know about you but if people and kids start shuffling to schools they would all die, kids here eat like a squig in a hospital of civilians(Sad I know but its all I could think of), so there will be riots resulting in doom unless you have people with guns or a very Charismatic individual who acts as the leader that everyone will listen to(those are pretty damn hard to find)
But yea, I'm in America so people in other countries probably wouldn't have to worry about food as much considering one of America's problem with youths is obesity
Weapons - this wasn't a problem, I just wanted to add, don't forget about archery teams, though they aren't as good as guns, thats actually(as far as I know) the only weapons my school has. JROTC sucks cause all of our M1's lack a firing pin and have a metal rod welded in the barrel(they really want us to die in an apocalypse)
BaronIveagh wrote:In all likelihood, the panicking humans will cause more damage then the rampaging zombies, at first. That's one thing that Brooks got right.
I whole heartedly agree,avoiding large groups of humans will be important to survival,particularly in the first days,the amount of stampeding, car crashing,wildly shooting,running around atracting zombie attention nonsense would create LOADS of casulities,and you don't want to be numbered among them.
I've found that not being numbered among the casualties is a good thing. The alternative sucks. Or hurts like hell. Both are negative outcomes, in my book.
BaronIveagh wrote:I've found that not being numbered among the casualties is a good thing. The alternative sucks. Or hurts like hell. Both are negative outcomes, in my book.
dogma wrote:It really all depends on how widespread the infection is. If its global, survival would be highly overrated.
But surviving does mean you can hope for a better tomorrow. Even if "Hope is the first step down the road to disappointment"
And I don't know about you guys, but in my hidey hole, I am going to...... Sacrifice myself to the repopulation of the world.
BaronIveagh wrote:I've found that not being numbered among the casualties is a good thing. The alternative sucks. Or hurts like hell. Both are negative outcomes, in my book.
dogma wrote:It really all depends on how widespread the infection is. If its global, survival would be highly overrated.
But surviving does mean you can hope for a better tomorrow. Even if "Hope is the first step down the road to disappointment"
And I don't know about you guys, but in my hidey hole, I am going to...... Sacrifice myself to the repopulation of the world.
stop being a troll. mistress is being needlessly nasty....I will not tolerate that. I cannot stand people making idiotic assumptions about my life based on a few lines of text...typical ignorance.
Sorry the Mods are the ones who decide if its tolerated thank you. You need to seriously chill out. Now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orlanth wrote:IG_urban, I regret to inform you that you are 100% failed to provide a viable survive the zombie plague plan. This is because by standing around arguing loudly you have attracted some zombies. It is a pity you and those you are having a slagging match with were too busy comparing weapon stats to notice the shuffling noises from all around until way too late.
Frazzled wrote:
Sorry the Mods are the ones who decide if its tolerated thank you. You need to seriously chill out. Now.
Frazzie, that was three days and four pages ago.
I can imagine Frazzie the wizened exasperated schoolteacher who rushes out into the playground waving a cane to demand the kids behave, only to stop suddenly and find himself all alone becuse school broke for the holidays the day before.
Frazzled wrote:
Sorry the Mods are the ones who decide if its tolerated thank you. You need to seriously chill out. Now.
Frazzie, that was three days and four pages ago.
I can imagine Frazzie the wizened exasperated schoolteacher who rushes out into the playground waving a cane to demand the kids behave, only to stop suddenly and find himself all alone becuse school broke for the holidays the day before.
Frazzled wrote:
Sorry the Mods are the ones who decide if its tolerated thank you. You need to seriously chill out. Now.
Frazzie, that was three days and four pages ago.
I can imagine Frazzie the wizened exasperated schoolteacher who rushes out into the playground waving a cane to demand the kids behave, only to stop suddenly and find himself all alone becuse school broke for the holidays the day before.
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Would it surprise you that I've gone into work, poked my head up a few hours later, wondering where the hell all the other lazy bastards are, only to realize it was a holiday?
I'd take the wife and kids up into the mountains. There shouldn't be too many Zombies out there, and it wouldn't be hard to find a spot where you could see them coming from all directions. Plenty of water and food if you know how to hunt and fish, and I know some spots where we could hole up for the winter, if I split enough firewood. I think once winter set in we'd be okay, since I'm pretty sure zombies would freeze solid.
Oh, and guns. Lots and lots of guns. Which I have.
Well I would grab all the metal poles and heavy tublar things in my garage and head to my local tesco. Clear it of zombies and block the doors. Then wait to be saved by the army
Maybe they build them with fewer entrances and exits these days, but my middle school and high school had far too many access points to make them ideal in my mind. They also had lots of ground level windows, which wouldn't seem to be a good idea either.
Ayah it depends on the school Gorgon. As noted previously, newish schools (post 1980) in much of Texas have gone Bunkerized with minimal exterior windows, which are often reinforced. My school high school and GC's elemtnary had inner courtyards where all the windows were facing (but still reinforced). Its really smart actually.
besring wrote:Well I would grab all the metal poles and heavy tublar things in my garage and head to my local tesco. Clear it of zombies and block the doors. Then wait to be saved by the army
then wait to be saved by army
army saved
more like napalm bombed or killed or left to rot or sent to work camps to decreace risk of trasmission
Monster Rain wrote:I'd take the wife and kids up into the mountains. There shouldn't be too many Zombies out there, and it wouldn't be hard to find a spot where you could see them coming from all directions. Plenty of water and food if you know how to hunt and fish, and I know some spots where we could hole up for the winter, if I split enough firewood. I think once winter set in we'd be okay, since I'm pretty sure zombies would freeze solid.
Oh, and guns. Lots and lots of guns. Which I have.
*Sigh* now you see reading this, probably If I wasn't with anyone I'd probably stick with some random family and 'try' to keep them as safe as I possibly can. I'd give me a reason to go on living. I'd probably feel more at peace knowing that I'm keeping someone safe rather than being a self serving bastard(Not harshing on anyone that would fight for themself) But If I found that 1 special person(I'd be damned lucky if that happend) in the apocalypse then I'd probably leave the family for her.
Monster Rain wrote:I'd take the wife and kids up into the mountains. There shouldn't be too many Zombies out there, and it wouldn't be hard to find a spot where you could see them coming from all directions. Plenty of water and food if you know how to hunt and fish, and I know some spots where we could hole up for the winter, if I split enough firewood. I think once winter set in we'd be okay, since I'm pretty sure zombies would freeze solid.
Oh, and guns. Lots and lots of guns. Which I have.
*Sigh* now you see reading this, probably If I wasn't with anyone I'd probably stick with some random family and 'try' to keep them as safe as I possibly can. I'd give me a reason to go on living. I'd probably feel more at peace knowing that I'm keeping someone safe rather than being a self serving bastard(Not harshing on anyone that would fight for themself) But If I found that 1 special person(I'd be damned lucky if that happend) in the apocalypse then I'd probably leave the family for her.
Hell, I could use a few good men. How's your aim? Any good at carpentry?
I was wondering,what exactly would peoples "load out" be?
By that I mean what gear would you consider must have for survival in the first week?
My basic "load out" would consist of.
4 wheel drive,camper covered pick up.
x3 cases MREs
x3 cases bottled water
BDUs
first aid kit
Mini-14 x 6 20 round magazines (250 rounds ammo)
Colt 1911 x 4 magazines (100 rounds ammo)
Rossi .357 (50 rounds ammo)
Mosberg 500 ( 50 shells)
zippo
K-bar
tools for auto repair.(though I would most likely take another car if need be)
machette
flight jacket
carton of cigarettes.
FITZZ, do you own all that hardware or is it more of a wish list?
Since I know exactly where I'm headed I wouldn't need a whole lot of water. If I only had say... 15 minutes to pack up the the car I'd grab all my firearms and ammo, a huge pot to boil water in, my survival knife and the Camping gear(tents, sleeping bags and whatnot.) Shovels, first aid kits, my axes and splitting mauls and I'm realizing that the only AM/FM radio I have is on my daughter's pink Tinkerbell CD player...
Lighters
My Dog(barking at a key moment saves lives)
As many Dry Goods as I can fit around the family in the car.
That, combined with living off the land should allow me to get myself set up in the mountains and ready for winter... If you're out there and hear that there's a compound of Zombie Fighters in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, you better believe it!
Of course, to get in you'll have to swear fealty to the God-King Monster Rain and be ceremonially branded. Standard post-apocalyptic procedure.
Oh, what firearms you ask?
870 12-Gauge
.357 Magnum
H&K 9mm
Ruger .380(for the kids! Aim for the face, baby! You haven't been playing "Link's Crossbow Training for nothing!)
8mm Swede
SKS AK-47
The wife is Diabetic so insulin is going to be an issue... I'll have to raid pharmacies occasionally after the initial chaos dies down. Otherwise, things will be pretty grim.
With the exception of the Mini-14 (wich I hope to purchase soon) & the camper covered 4 wheel drive ( I own a Mercury Cougar...bleh),I have everything else on the list,plus a Tuarus 9mm.
And I now feel like a complete tool,as I left my girlfriend and kids off my list.
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:The school is a good diea, i don't see why people keep thinking it's not.
Most schools, sadly for the education system but not the apocalypse, are quite fortress like.
My school was built on top of a mountain to prevent kids from ditching classes to go somewhere, as it's to far from anyplace to do that.
It has several large doors designed to take heat levels from explosions (the school board was worried about kids going on rampages using homemade explosives.) for a consatsnt 24 hours,
and has several gates that are sued in malls to close down the shop.
Add to that you can use the woodshop, which most schools have, to build barricades or weapons.
Or just use the desks, tables, computers, tvs, and bookshelves to make defensvie perimeters in a pinch, and you're set for at leats a little while.
And you've got a steady supply of food and drinks if you find and turn on the emergency generators quick enough to power the freezer and home ec rooms back up.
If the school has a rifle team as well, it isn't that hard to open the gun safe and take the weapons and ammo from inside to use.
Sure, they're only .22s, but it's a good enough weapon for a beginner to use, and the ammo is light enough that it cna be carried for a long time with a lot of it.
Obviously there are flaws to the plan, if someoen would point them out I'm sure there'd be a way to work aorund these.
Dude you school sounds amazing(not the fact that its the school but what it contains)
*Problems I saw*
Food - Dude your in a high school, I don't know about you but if people and kids start shuffling to schools they would all die, kids here eat like a squig in a hospital of civilians(Sad I know but its all I could think of), so there will be riots resulting in doom unless you have people with guns or a very Charismatic individual who acts as the leader that everyone will listen to(those are pretty damn hard to find)
But yea, I'm in America so people in other countries probably wouldn't have to worry about food as much considering one of America's problem with youths is obesity
Weapons - this wasn't a problem, I just wanted to add, don't forget about archery teams, though they aren't as good as guns, thats actually(as far as I know) the only weapons my school has. JROTC sucks cause all of our M1's lack a firing pin and have a metal rod welded in the barrel(they really want us to die in an apocalypse)
Well thats what I though would be flaws.
The good news is nobody thinks of going to the school tho. There is a small National guard base nearby, a hospital, and Piccatinny Aresenal about an hour and a half away, so most people would be trying to
get to these places and not the school.
The good news on the food front, well, let's just say we're not called the "Timberwolves" without good reason. We also have cougars, deer, moose, duck, geese, wild turkey, racoons, beavers,
and a medium sized river perfect for fishing.
animals that can be hunted. Only problem is that the things like turkeys and ravens and such are scavengers so they can't be all that tasty.
As for what you mentioned about people, you need not worry. My entire plan was designed around just myself, so that it could be executed by one person, and then adapted to larger groups.
Provied for if anybody happens to want to try it.
1) Break into the school, and get the keys to the bus depot.
2) Drive buses to form a defensive outer wall.
3) Make defensive inner walls out of desks and tables. (Stairs can't be destroyed tho)
4) Use book cases to block off the space between the buses and the ground, use the left over to make small blocks to shoot from behind
if fighting groups of humans trying to gain access.
5) Take the machinery from a nearby construction site to dig a trench outside the bus line.
6) Use the wood tech departments tools, cut down surronding trees.
7) Turn the trees into stave to fill trench.
8) Begin to become self sufficent, by turning football field into a cornfield.
9) After you have been made self sufficent, retake the world!
kamakazepanda wrote:I havnt checked if its been suggested yet but would the zombies kill eachother???? just a suggestion
Not according to any film or book I've seen/read,zombies attack and eat the living (this is going with Romero,Snyder zombies),their is even a scene in the original Dawn of the Dead,in wich a group of zombies start to attack Stephen,who has turned into a zombie while traped in an elevator,the zombies,upon realizing he is now a zombie stop and walk away. (sorryif that was a spoiler,but hey...the movie is 33 years old).
Also,in any of the "infected but not dead" zombie films (28 days/weeks later,Quarintine etc) the infected don't seem to be aggresive to other infected.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Monster Rain wrote:Meh, isn't it implied that you would do something with them (refering to my Girlfriend and children)]
True,but for a second there I felt like the worlds biggest douche...
" Mommy? why is Daddy driving away so fast?...and why doesn't Mr. Ramirez have an arm?"
Monster Rain wrote:The problem is that a school will be centrally located... You'll be pretty busy fighting off the Undead.
I mentioned it before, my school is located on a mountain top. Not at all centrally located. The closest community is about 45 minutes away, which is why people would be busy trying to get
to the National guard basa, hospital, or even so far as Picatinny Aresenal.
Monster Rain wrote:The problem is that a school will be centrally located... You'll be pretty busy fighting off the Undead.
I mentioned it before, my school is located on a mountain top. Not at all centrally located. The closest community is about 45 minutes away, which is why people would be busy trying to get
to the National guard basa, hospital, or even so far as Picatinny Aresenal.
See Scout being in a small town has some advantages,in a small enough town you (and the other living) have a good fighting chance of taking out most of the zombies in town,with enough ammo and a good secure area,it's just a matter of snipeing for a while and then doing sweeps.
Hell,with enough living you could perhaps take the whole town back.
So, my portable loadout(in the instance my house gets discovered out in the boonies)
Water filter. Clean water is majorly important.
Empty soda bottles(tougher than water bottles and wont melt if you put gas in them)
Zippo.
Kukri.
200m of nylon web/strap(2000lb load, the stuff is handy)
spool of fishing line(use with empty cans to make an alarm or to set up trip lines while ya sleep)
E-tool(fixed blade 'spetznaz' type, not a folder)
multiplier tool & crescent wrench
Bolt cutters(makes getting into places for scrounging easier)
LED flashlight with Nimh batteries(can be recharged by modifying a salvaged alternator out of a car).
Binoculars(steiner 12x50)
pistol & rifle- type doesnt matter as much as ammo supply.(to start my .40 glock and mauser 7mm)
Good pair of gloves
roll of plastic sheeting.
Cool hat
cool shades.
lightweight radio(to listen for news, and to use as a zombie distraction device).
If I was holed up, thered be more guns/ammo. More gadgets since I could rig up a windmill or solarpanels for recharging batteries. Food and water storage. Get away/supply collection vehicle.
Monster Rain wrote:The problem is that a school will be centrally located... You'll be pretty busy fighting off the Undead.
I mentioned it before, my school is located on a mountain top. Not at all centrally located. The closest community is about 45 minutes away, which is why people would be busy trying to get
to the National guard basa, hospital, or even so far as Picatinny Aresenal.
See Scout being in a small town has some advantages,in a small enough town you (and the other living) have a good fighting chance of taking out most of the zombies in town,with enough ammo and a good secure area,it's just a matter of snipeing for a while and then doing sweeps.
Hell,with enough living you could perhaps take the whole town back.
I would still like to ahve movie theater that i don't have to drive an hour to get too. Or that doesn't have a fight club.
Loadout:
Essentials/Tools
Lighter
Pack (my dad's old army one, or mine own.)
MRE's (once again, my dads army days.)
Water in metal bootles.
Crowbar
Sledgehammer
Claw hammer
Hatchet
Saw
E-Tool(s) (One from my dad, folding, my grandad as well, fixed. Navy for grandad, army for pop)
Books
Flashlight
Cover (Boonie hat for you Non military types.)
Boots
Running Shoes
Coat
Winter Gloves
Work Gloves
Sweatpants
Sleeping bag.
If I did my math right, that comes out to about 85-90 lbs. It's a little bit heavy, I won't move as fast or be as agile.
Worse comes to worst, i can just drop my sledge and cleaver, as I have smaller tools that do that. but it pays to be prepared.
Heavy leathers*
dry socks*
night vision goggles
canteen*
Collapsible water drum (55 gallon)*
water filters/purifier tablets*
folding solar panel*
petard*
entrenching tool (russian non-fold)*
M-35 Command Vehicle variant with multifuel engine
or
BTR-40PB (BTR would be better if there's an easy fuel supply, but M-35 is easier to work on in the field and can run on heating oil if you have to)
BAR (.30-06 Springfield is everywhere)*
nylon web/camo netting*
my standard survival kit (fishing, snares, flares, colored smoke, tinder, flint and steel, mirror, toothbrush, etc)*
shortwave*
Colt 1911 .45 ACP (.45 is also fairly common, and the 1911 is one of the most durable pistols ever made)*
Machete*
jump boots*
krugarrands*
ace of spades*
clear plastic sheeting*
pop bottles*
as much ammo as possible*
my frock coat*
skinning/filleting knife*
fedora*
laptop*
sat uplink*
det cord*
Some spray paint and writing materials would be handy too, especially if you want to leave signs of survival for others to follow.
Guns would be pretty tough to get a hold of here in England; most towns and cities have a Gunmaker of some kind but i'm guessing they would be very hard to break into, and also located in the middle of a population centre likely to be teeming with the undead :(
Raiding a school science department would be more productive as there will be plenty of flammable materials and other stuff available (magnesium, gunpowder, thermite mixtures, etc...).
Why on earth would I want to leave a trail for anyone to follow? I'd be up to my ass in useless deadweights in no time.
I picked a shortwave due to it's ability to get world wide broadcasts, and my sat uplink has built in GPS. Plugged into my laptop map software, and I an tell where I am down to about a five foot area.
) alive, and er.... enjoy all the free time I have (with the ladies.)
, oh and 
ies starve. Texans adapt and overcome.
, and while they try to figure out the relevant legislative paperwork 
I think I'll be sleeping with the light on tonight.... 
