At the request of some folks in another thread, I am posting my digital tank design here. The plan is to finish up the design and put this into production as a plastic injection kit.

For backwork and more info see this thread at warseer: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928

The images shown here are the latest. The hull s very much unfinished (the folks over at warseer wouldnt leave me alone until I started working on the turret, and I hit some 'designer's block' so I moved on for a bit. I'm going to be revising the hull design a bit in the coming bit. For the most part, changes are going to be limited to the front end of the vehicle and the rivets/armor plating.

Comments and criticisms welcome!

Ummm... looks really cool but I cannot shake the feeling that with the first picture you unconsciously made a "Millennium Falcon" turret.

I wouldn't say it was an unconcious decision... but I will say I am starting to regret it

Reminds me of the Abrams with a miniature millenium falcon on top; expect a lawsuit from both George Lucas and the US military

The word is "subconscious"... if he did it while he was unconscious it would be considered a miracle that he could do anything at all...

lol, good observation fox

Mecharius, I'm not really worried about a lawsuit... especially since it shouldnt look a thing like the falcon once I get the gun(s) on there.

Although I'm curious... where do you see the Abrams? I have been told that several times, but really, I dont see it?

Yeah im sorry i have crewed the arbrams and i dont see it either.

Other than that i think its beautiful for 40k.

The abrams opinions are probably stemming from the low-slung, elongated chassis.

"OK Chewie, PUNCH IT!" (cue "whoob...whoob...whoob..pffffffff" noise)

that thing is nice looking... i may need 20 of them

Wow awesome! How much will it cost to make it an plastic?

I've been drafting up a tank design to replace my Leman Uglies, and my hull design is very very similar to yours. Mines a bit simpler, fewer angles & plates, but the sponson mounts are almost identical in concept.

For the bulges on the track skirting- are you going to line up the raod wheels with those, or is there some purpose to the odd spacing?

For the turret, putting a second hatch ring on the left side, and squaring up the stowage boxes/aft section of the turret would reduce the Mellenium Falcon proportions and lines. Im also guessing you havent rivetted the turret yet?

On my design Ive been going back & forth on a round turret, like a contemporary soviet type, or to stick with the Imperiums apparent ban on curved armor

Im also setting my design to be resin casting freindly, and have a similar troop transport counter part- possibly using a 'universal' sort of tracked chassis. Im still playing with shapes, I doing it old school, with sketches and a large blob of clay to set the rough prototype shapes.

Im curious to see how yours comes along and how you build the initial protoypes up through the mold making phase.

This looks great so far.

Mistress of minis wrote:I've been drafting up a tank design to replace my Leman Uglies, and my hull design is very very similar to yours. Mines a bit simpler, fewer angles & plates, but the sponson mounts are almost identical in concept.

That might be problematic... I was planning on eliminating some of the angles (mainly the ones forward of the sponsons on the sides). Hope you don't mind, lol.

For the bulges on the track skirting- are you going to line up the raod wheels with those, or is there some purpose to the odd spacing?

They are meaningless. Original intent was to make them into some sort of fancy sci-fi smoke generation system. Right now though, I'm thinking I may just remove them entirely (and rework the side skirt to appear a bit more modern, with flexible plates, etc.). They are completely independent of the suspension.

For the turret, putting a second hatch ring on the left side, and squaring up the stowage boxes/aft section of the turret would reduce the Mellenium Falcon proportions and lines. Im also guessing you havent rivetted the turret yet?

Nope, the turret is very much still a wip. Will take those suggestions into consideration.

On my design Ive been going back & forth on a round turret, like a contemporary soviet type, or to stick with the Imperiums apparent ban on curved armor

Im also setting my design to be resin casting freindly, and have a similar troop transport counter part- possibly using a 'universal' sort of tracked chassis. Im still playing with shapes, I doing it old school, with sketches and a large blob of clay to set the rough prototype shapes.

Im curious to see how yours comes along and how you build the initial protoypes up through the mold making phase.

Well, as of right now, the plan is to get get the design rapid prototyped (basically direct to resin, except it probably won't be a resin material), make sure everything fits together/there aren't any design issues, etc. and then its going to go directly to mold manufacturing and plastic injection production via CAM (computer aided machining) processes.

Hans_posthumus wrote:Wow awesome! How much will it cost to make it an plastic?

Its going to cost me something upwards of 20,000 USD to get the molds produced. Afterwards (depending on how I set up the sprue, etc.) it could be as cheap as 1-5 USD per sprue produced. If there is enough interest (and there seems to be indeed), I may end up selling them for 25-30 USD each. If that is the case, I will need to sell about 1300 units to break even.

I would skip the bulges on the sideskirts, if you want more detail I would add some reactive armour or similar instead. Otherwise, impressive build, I would buy one, though I am curious to see how the finished turret will look

I have been considering reactive armor (mainly because its what I call 'lazy mans detailing'. easy way to get a varied surface without doing much work), but I'm not sure how well it fits the design. I'm trying to go for something retro-futuristic. Something that is clearly sci-fi, but has many throwbacks to older techs and designs that haven't been seen in a while. I think reactive armor might be too modern, but maybe I can add it in as an optional upgrade type deal

I was also considering the possibility of bedspring or Schürzen

Are there updated dimensions past the ones at the start of the warseer thread for actual size? 2" tall is um...I don't know my mind is just thinking it'd be flat like a panfish.

been a while since I checked, and a bit busy packing up atm to check. But from what I recall the hull is 7" long by (about) 4.1" wide. Don't remember the height, but it wasn't too high (unlike the actual Leman Russ).

To give you a better sense of scale, here is a scale comparison pic (its a bit out of date in regards to the turret). Its not exact, but it should be fairly close.

So, what program are you using? It looks like fun just to play around with.

Looks like NXS to me... gotta get you on Maya or 3DS boy, so you can output some prettier renders than the CAD style!

Good eye major tom. It is NX 5.0

I also have solidworks, but I dont really ever use it.

I had maya and 3ds (and rhino 3d) but I had absolutely no idea how to use them, so I got rid of them. I still have blender, but I only kept it because it was the only one I had acquired legally out of the group. I'm an engineer, and thus recieved training on engineering software. To me, 3ds, maya, rhino, and blender are the most unintuitive, impossible to use software ever written.

Lol fair enough, I am the opposite in all circumstances on that one lol, designer, own maya, CAD makes my brain hurt and puppies cry lol.

It's a shame they don't play well together, Engineers are some of the best hard surface modelers out there, but we can't take your models and work them into film level stuff because of the NURBS an unattached surfaces... shame...

Nice job though!

You sure? I thought that transformers and iron man stuff was done on up using CAD software?

And I'm sure there has to be some sort of way to be able to get from CAD to CG and back again? If not, sounds like a great problem to solve (and a great way to make money).

I would like to learn how to use maya/3ds, etc. (and get better at Zbrush, I got the basics down, I think). Especially for doing posable humanoid models (I think you can see where I'm going with that). If you have any suggestions regarding that, it would be greatly appreciated.

Hmm, that's pretty sweet yeah.

So what are the plans for the sponson weapons? Will you be offering 'counts as' bits or am I going to have to try to figure how to fit plasma cannons in those slots?

Well, I happy to see anyone thats working to put out a quality product. I looked at your Warseer thread and this tank is something you've been working on for a while

As much as I'd like to go the route you are with the direct prototyping and injection molding- I really doubt I could get the funds up for that- so Im sticking with the garage resin casts.

But Im glad you got this thread rolling- helps keep me motivated to keep workin on my stuff ^_^

Glad to share, if you would like to post pics of your own project, you're more than welcome to.

As for weapons, I will be offering my own 'counts as' versions. Although for the sponson/hull mounted weapons, its only going to be the barrels sticking out. I dont really see any reason why the ENTIRE weapon on a sponson needs to be clearly visible.

My sketches so far arent really worth posting

And the 'counts as' versions are the only way to go for the base model- gotta avoid those pesky C&D orders GW likes to bully people with.

Im planning on making mine compatible with GW stuff, but the sponsons will be mounted flat( like on the side compared to the current sponsons). The only reason I'm planning on having the weapons bits external is for gaming mechanics. Letting people see a plasma cannon or heavy bolter provides more clarity than just a muzzle on a swivel would.

a Millennium falcon based grav tank with a mighty turret on it could well be an awesome thing. The turret has got me thinking that

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:The word is "subconscious"... if he did it while he was unconscious it would be considered a miracle that he could do anything at all...

I do not mind being corrected... as long as it is correct.

Webster Dictionary definition: "not consciously held or deliberately planned or carried out <an unconscious bias>"

You are correct in the other definition.

I find if I want to copy something, I like I try to re-create only the heart of the design and try to avoid the other details.

It IS cool what is being done here.

Thanks. I love hearing how awesome I am!

Talizvar wrote:Ummm... looks really cool but I cannot shake the feeling that with the first picture you unconsciously made a "Millennium Falcon" turret.

First thing that poped into my head as the pic loaded.

I give you the gift of a modified hull (still WIP)!

Very nice, you saw my design/sketch, which I like

I'd add more of the original Russ in there, like the coils on the side, and some of the angles of the treads.

I like your sponson ideas although they do look small when compared to GW's huge weapons. if you could make them bigger you'd be golden.

I think your square hatches need to be circles. The Imperium is wierd like that. If a tank is rounded in anyway its wrong. If the doors/hatches are squared they are wrong.

I think if you get some of the original Russ in your design it will be more quickly viewed as a Russ remake and not a 40k Abrams conversion. (Oh and most people see abrams because of the way the turret and chassis connect+the long chassis and placement of the lights. You people who have lived in the thing obviously have more knowledge on the tank and have a much stronger mental image.

I like the drivers area in the new hull design

here's a bit of an update:





As always, still a WIP. I figured enough people were complaining about exposed turret rings that it deserved to be addressed. Also the update makes the underside of the turret less of a target, and also allowed me to make the turret a bit deeper to allow the crew to move around a bit more. Also, decided that the periscopes for the sponsons were making it to difficult to keep the turret safe, so the new design is going to have to settle for co-axial sights instead.

Why is there a millenium falcon on the tank?

And the turret looks way too big atm

Mecharius wrote:Reminds me of the Abrams with a miniature millenium falcon on top; expect a lawsuit from both George Lucas and the US military

lol

poipo32 wrote:Why is there a millenium falcon on the tank?

And the turret looks way too big atm

This:



is the millenoum falcon. It only bears a passing resemblance to the turret.

Which, btw, is NOT way too big. Its the right size. If you want to talk about a big turret, please see this:



and if you want an example of a too small turret, see these:

Nice design.., reminds me a bit of the Israeli Merkava tank..

Sorry for the lack of updates, my laptop died and it was a while before I could get it repaired. As you can see I've modified the design rather considerably.

Comments and criticisms always welcome!

That's no longer a tank. It's a mobile fortress of solitude.

That or a Land Yacht

Should I take that as a compliment or an insult?

Also, in case anyone is curious, no that is not final. I have to add details and hatches, etc.

Both? I just have this image of Dr. Evil looking out one of those windows with his pinky to the corner of his mouth as the tank goes tearing through a city

It looks good to me. Has the look of modern, low-profile tanks, while the sponson(?) mountings retain the old WW1 "mobile bunker" feel.

carabine wrote:

Talizvar wrote:Ummm... looks really cool but I cannot shake the feeling that with the first picture you unconsciously made a "Millennium Falcon" turret.

First thing that poped into my head as the pic loaded.

Me too! Nice work.

That's a hell of a tank, very nice work. The current turret size looks really good to me. Big enough to fit crew in, but still proportional to the rest of the tank.

I feel you guys on the CAD/CG software discrepancy too. I started out trying to teach myself the artsy ones, then had to take university classes in CAD and am actually employed in that now. The CAD seems a lot more intuitive to me as well but they both lack features that the other has that seem like criminal oversights.

What are the round slits in front and side for? are there going to be gun placements there?

I think the curve really dont fit with the rest of the tank , if anything , it should be curve the same way as the turret's back ( in blocks of straight lines )

Yeah, the round slits are weapon mounts (hull mount up front and sponsons on the sides).

Noted on the straight lines vs. curves. I've been thinking the same thing, I'll give it a go later to see how it looks. I chose the curves because I wanted them to look kind of like bunkers, which are generally curved.

looks very good by me. I also see some Abrams influences in the overall design (ie, how the turret has basically the same width as the hull of the tank, and the overall profile of the tracks themselves)

If you were one for taking the Dozer blade upgrade in your guard tanks, you might consider making a modified mine-plow or a Sherman tank style Hedgerow for it.

Not meaning to rush you at all but... When can we see the big shootaz! (bounces up and down with far to much excitement). Great looking tank mate!

that looks very cool, will you build it?

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:The word is "subconscious"... if he did it while he was unconscious it would be considered a miracle that he could do anything at all...

That made me laugh so hard, I'm sigging that

Sorry there haven't been updates for a while (months...), but I've been pretty busy with real life, and had a bit of 'designers block'. I've mostly just been messing around with various changes to the design, this is where it stands now. As always, it is still a work in progress.

To answer your question from way earlier, you can transfer obj's or fbx files that will hold the geometry and the UV's, but for proper cinematic rendering the problem is the nature of the geometry. With Maya and others like it, you need a solid shell for the most part in order to texture it properly, preferably in quads. Cad builds the files as nurbs usually that line up, but are not 'solid'. So for instance the side panel of the armor may appear to be one piece, but in fact is is 30 jagged shards that need to be stitched back together by hand. It is possible, but so time consuming it is usually easier to just create new geometry in program. I would be the happiest camper in the world if we could use CADs 'out of the box', believe me it would be heaven at work! lol

That being said, the tank is coming along really nicely! Design wise, the only thing that jumps out at me is the side track panels. The shape is very conventional, while the upper parts of the tank are very futuristic, unique and awesome, almost Tron like. I would try to do something to bring them in line with the top, some curves and tech paneling.

Hmm, hopefully those will blend in a bit better when I'm done with them. I'm trying to avoid curved features, as that clashes with the established Imperial aesthetic. And Tron like? Hmm... thats a new one I suppose.

the un-riveted portion in the middle in specific. It will lose it a bit as details are added.

However, lose the rivets and other fine details, shove a black shader on there and a big ass off center gun, you got yourself a baddass neon tank!

Talizvar wrote:Ummm... looks really cool but I cannot shake the feeling that with the first picture you unconsciously made a "Millennium Falcon" turret.

You beat me to it!

I like the look of the turret. At least the deminsions. It seem ridiculous that 40000 years into the future, even if the IG are not supplied with the best weaponry, they would have at least made the turret more sleek with a smaller side profile to avoid taking a direct hit to it!

Talizvar wrote:Ummm... looks really cool but I cannot shake the feeling that with the first picture you unconsciously made a "Millennium Falcon" turret.

Just when I was wondering if this project was dead.
The new side skirts look great.
I still can't shake the feeling the turret looks too big, but somehow a M1 Abrams turret doesn't.

Subscribed.

Do you plan on mass producing this? If so, I'll take 10.

I would like to, but I don't have very much in the way of cash. I think what will end up happening is that I'll have a set of prints done and get a casting house to do resin production so the people that REALLY want them can get them, and then somewhere down the line, if I think I can swing it, look into plastic production.

Its the Millineum Falcon tank!!!

Not that it doesn't look cool, its just that in the rendering with that grey color.....


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chaos0xomega wrote:I wouldn't say it was an unconcious decision... but I will say I am starting to regret it

Don't, it looks awesome, and once there are weapons on the turret nobody will know....call it a quirk of the design process




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chaos0xomega wrote:I would like to, but I don't have very much in the way of cash. I think what will end up happening is that I'll have a set of prints done and get a casting house to do resin production so the people that REALLY want them can get them, and then somewhere down the line, if I think I can swing it, look into plastic production.

Serious question, is it going to be the hull, or are weapons going to be part of the cast? Almost seems like a neater idea to supply just the hull and turret and let make sure each one is unique....just me though.

chaos0xomega wrote:I would like to, but I don't have very much in the way of cash. I think what will end up happening is that I'll have a set of prints done and get a casting house to do resin production so the people that REALLY want them can get them, and then somewhere down the line, if I think I can swing it, look into plastic production.

I don't care what it costs, that thing looks 1000x better then the GW Leman Russ and I want to buy it. When do you think it'll be ready for resin production?


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Another thing you could do is set up a poll to see how many people would be interested in purchasing this kit, as companies, I believe, need at least 1000 kits sold before a Plastic mold would be viable.

agroszkiewicz wrote:
Serious question, is it going to be the hull, or are weapons going to be part of the cast? Almost seems like a neater idea to supply just the hull and turret and let make sure each one is unique....just me though.

I plan for there to be weapon options available to cover all possible leman russ variants (including FW variants like the annihilator and the pretty-much useless conqueror). For the main cannon based variants (LRBT, Demolisher, Vanquisher, Conqueror, and Eradicator) this will be pretty easy, I came up with a pretty cool system that basically uses modular parts/inserts to change the appearance of the barrel. I have to find the sketches I made, but IIRC, it would be 6 pieces (back, short barrel, main barrel, vanquisher extension, muzzle break, heavy muzzle break).:
So a LRBT would be back, short barrel, and main barrel (to give it a "two-piece appearance)
the demolisher would be back, heavy muzzle break
Vanquisher would be back, main barrel, vanquisher extension, muzzle break
Conqueror would be back, short barrel
Eradicator would be back, short barrel, heavy muzzle break

For resin production, I would probably only supply that setup, and leave the other variants up to the purchaser (simply for cost/time reasons). For plastic production, I would supply all variants (because I can, and such a small addition wouldn't really affect things).

As for hull weapons, I basically have to provide all of those, as I don't think the GW bitz will fit with what I am planning to do, but I could be wrong.

I don't care what it costs, that thing looks 1000x better then the GW Leman Russ and I want to buy it. When do you think it'll be ready for resin production?


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Another thing you could do is set up a poll to see how many people would be interested in purchasing this kit, as companies, I believe, need at least 1000 kits sold before a Plastic mold would be viable.

Thanks! Appreciate the comments, as for when it will be ready... well, i started this hmm... 2 years ago. Unfortunately when i started I decided I would design as I go (rather than doing the sensible thing of sketching first), this has resulted in a lot of time wasted changing the design around, etc. (see the link in the OP to the whineseer thread to get an idea of the design evolution). I don't have a lot of time to work on it atm, but how much other stuff I have going on varies a lot on what is basically a weekly basis. Depending on how motivated I get to finish this, I could possibly have it done by Christmas (highly unlikely). More reasonable estimate: the model will be ready to go summer 2011. Whether I will have the 500-1000 USD that it would cost to have this thing printed (let alone molded/cast) is another matter that I can't predict w/ any reasonable accuracy.

And yeah, i'm gonna do the poll thing, look into pre-orders, etc. etc. when I'm ready for that step, I'm still a long way off.

EDIT: BTW, working w/ some rough estimates I received about a year ago, I could quite reasonably sell plastic versions of the kit for about 25-30 USD each, IIRC the breakeven point would require me to sell some 1800 kits. I'm not necessarily interested in making a profit, I just don't want to take a loss, so I hope that if and when this does make it into production I can provide it at a reasonable price.

So what does everyone think of the latest changes? Just trying to get some input, as I'm messing around w/ the front end a little bit, trying to simplify the geometry a bit, as well as 'bulk up'.



Side note: In terms of production, I've been thinking about the possibility of a hybrid kit as an initial offering. I'm worried that things like the handlebars/ladder rungs will be too fiddly in resin (as in too annoying for people to enjoy assembling the kit), and I'm thinking that the track links would be better made in plastic as well. While this has the initial downside of increasing production costs (the processes used for resin production and plastic production are entirely different), the sprues required for the handlebars and tracks would be small enough (and simple enough to manufacture) that I might actually be able to pull it off. Then I could offer the rest of the kit in resin, and as I build up a reserve of cash start converting more and more of the kit over to plastic (probably start w/ weapons, and work my way from there). Thoughts?

chaos0xomega wrote:To me, 3ds, maya, rhino, and blender are the most unintuitive, impossible to use software ever written.

Hey now! As a non-engineer layman with no training of any kind, I found Rhino to be both intuitive and simple.

Is the front going to serve as an assault ramp?

IS that an assault ramp on the millennium falcon launcher?


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An i hate rhino.

I find max far superior

No, no assault ramp.... where did that idea come from?

its probably because of the vertical raised bits on the nose of the tank... and really, i dont see where people get their "millenium falcon" ides from.. i "see" the barrels when i look at the pictures.

this looks like it could be fairly easily be made into something in between the leman russ.. like a Malcador or something.

It looks like the Millennium Falcon on top of a tank chassis!

its probably because of the vertical raised bits on the nose of the tank...

this looks like it could be fairly easily be made into something in between the leman russ.. like a Malcador or something.

The vehicle isn't big enough to transport the crew plus a squad... It's really only slightly larger than the Leman Russ (mainly in its length).

And thank you peatreed, but I already received that comment... many many times. In fact... if you bothered to read any of the other comments, I would guess you would see 20 previous posters saying the same thing.

chaos0xomega wrote:

The vehicle isn't big enough to transport the crew plus a squad...

I was only pointing out the nose looks, because you had asked where people got the idea of an assault ramp. I have read/been following this thread nearly since its beginning, and have noted that it was to be a leman russ replacement tank.

The front-end geometry is complete! Now I get to (re)detail the chassis!! And I swear this time my detailing will consist of more than just "RIVETS!!!!!!!!111!!11!!1!!ONE"

IMO, it looks great, but i think that the front end of it is too blunt and flat.. If you look at the tanks of today (and of 40k) the front planes are all angles. i think that the nose angle on this tank is too up and down to effectively deflect or prevent penetration the way more slanted noses would.

I know nobody else has mentioned this yet, but I feel like I have to point this out...
The turret looks exactly like the Millenium Falcon.

I think you need to make the armour more 'square', if you know what I mean.

I LIKE the turret.

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/chewie-and-han.jpg

To say the turret only has a 'passing' resemblance to the millenium Falcon is a bit of a bloody cheek. There's no shame in acknowledging your (Obvious) inspirations. Anyways it is a cool looking tank. My on problem is it looks somewhat silly in the frontal elevation (too tall), centering the sponsons clearly has it's aesthetic drawbacks. I think giving it some sort of diagonal detailing /l l\ on the side skirts would maybe solve this.

Random idea, could you not look into resin casting this to raise some money for the plastic moulding? Your 3D print would be good enough to take a mould from, presuming the pieces were thick enough.

They would be quite expensive though.

The Tank looks great, The turret however looks too wide for the body and I wouldn't limit the turrets resembalance to the Millineum Falcon as "Passing". It shares alot of the shape, and panel placements.

Turret is not too wide in my oppinion. Look at this, Leopard 2A4, main battle tank of couple of countries..
So it looks great, keep on working!

Another quick thing, quite hard to put into words; The superstructure of the main chasis discluding the turret is quite 'Tau' in it's current iteration. The central placement of the hull weapon mount is too symmetrical. This is not a problem if you Aim to create a cool 'sci fi MBT' but is a problem if you want to make it look 'Imperial'.

This tank looks amazing. Have you considered making your tracks "coincidentally" as wide as tamaiya rubber tracks?

...how wide are tamiya tracks? Chances are I'm not going to change anything on the model, but it might actually fit.

Perkustin wrote:Another quick thing, quite hard to put into words; The superstructure of the main chasis discluding the turret is quite 'Tau' in it's current iteration. The central placement of the hull weapon mount is too symmetrical. This is not a problem if you Aim to create a cool 'sci fi MBT' but is a problem if you want to make it look 'Imperial'.

I'd rather have a cool scifi MBT that fits in with imperial infantry than an imperial MBT, thats why I started the project to begin with (hence the name). The design will look considerably less symmetrical once the details have been added.

man "look at this tank this tank is amazing give it a lick"
girl "mmm tastes just like rasins"
man "with a stroke of its main 'cannon' it turns into a plane or melenium falcon and it turns back again when you tug on its exhaust pipe."
"girl "eww thats dirty"

thank you www.weeblestuff.co.uk

excelent looking tank keep the turret its cool and lets face it we gamers arn't usualy picky with our geekiness!


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I really like the design but I'm not sure about the side sponsons? I know that they only shoot forward on the gw LRBT but i just have the nagging feeling that it might work better if you moddeled two blocks which would fit onto and slightly over the side skirt?

Some more updates: ladders on both sides, and a 'hatch' system for the driver. Turns out that the turret wouldn't be able to make a full 360deg rotation if there was anything above the drivers station. The solution? The entire armor section slides forward on rails. Not the most elegant solution,, I suppose, but it works.

Oh man that looks so cool. I hope you get some production going on that, it would be pretty cool to play with. I also think the size of the turret is bang on really. Look at the Abrams man, that thing has a beast of a turret

Side note, all the falcon jokes are REALLY being over used here.

Yes I agree KingCracker, there are 3 pages of falcon jokes here, a bunch over on the locked thread on warseer, and I hear it almost every time I open up the files in front of my friends/family/roommates, etc. Its really making me not want to bother anymore, the jokes are so unoriginal that it hurts.

Aside from that, thanks for the positive comments!!

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I really like the design but I'm not sure about the side sponsons? I know that they only shoot forward on the gw LRBT but i just have the nagging feeling that it might work better if you moddeled two blocks which would fit onto and slightly over the side skirt?

Errr... They should have roughly 90deg of rotation like the actual LRBT. And I'm not modelling blocks to fit on the side skirts. First of all, it wouldn't work because there isn't enough space underneath the skirt to have anything other than the suspension/road wheels/bogies/tracklinks that the tank needs to actually move, and the whole point of bringing the sponsons into the footprint of the tank is to counteract one of the main reasons that sponsons are no longer used (being that they extend the width of the vehicle needlessly, making it impossible to use in an urban environment).

Great job chaos, but I don't think that the ladder pieces fit into the general aesthetic. Perhaps put them on one side, or the back, with more spacing between each rung.

Great looking machine! I have been playing around with some digital sculpting sites for a few months now, I must say that I am more impressed than ever

Are there going to be any 40k markings on it or are you trying to stay away from them?

Nope. There will be space available in prominent locations for you to apply your own decals/brass etch.

Hello,
The front keeps catching my eye, and I figured out what it is. It is to flat up front, perhaps break it into two planes, other wise it loses the tank effect and looks like a Volvo grill, or a old Kubelwagen front, with the bevel it would be better at deflecting small and medium arms fire as well, giving it a more amphibous look.

Regards,
Carl

I know precisely what you mean, and its being worked on.

First : Applause for you sir - really liking the tank . The general proportions look good to me, and the turret looks like it could be easily modified for a range of different weapon loadouts.

Second : If I may, I have a thought - inspired by the comments about the nose armour - regarding a possible marketing approach...

Would it be possible to slightly modify the chassis to develop an APC variant ?

My thought is that an APC kit might be easier to put into production, and slightly cheaper perhaps, offering a means of building funds for the launch of the MBT kit ?

I'm no expert, and have NO experience in this type of venture so I may be way off, but I thought I'd at least mention it in case it helps.

Anyhoo - keep up the sterling work. If I were an IG player I'd be waiting to order a few of these

Thanks for the comments Reaper6. I suppose it could be modified for an APC variant, I'll have to give that some thought though. I have plans for an APC that shares a similar design philosophy (and can also be used for things such as artillery vehicles, air-defense vehicles, flame-tanks, etc.), but is more of a half-track style vehicle, kind of a bastard child of a ww2 german SDKFZ and a modern day LAV III in terms of looks.

That looks amazing. This is what the LMBT should look like. Great mix of old styling (the sponsons), with a modern and futuristic theme to it.

Keep up the great work. Hopefully you get it put into production, if even a limited run. For 30 buck a pop, I would need a garage just to fit these into.

I am also interested in an APC to replace the chimera (although unlike the LRBT, I actually don't mind the GW model). Your idea seems like it would look pretty great.

Also, you make me want to get back into CAD... shame I never learned how to do 3D.

Talizvar wrote:Ummm... looks really cool but I cannot shake the feeling that with the first picture you unconsciously made a "Millennium Falcon" turret.

Agree.

If, and when you manage to get this printed out. Do you have an idea of how you'd like it to piece together? Like hull pieces, turret, etc?
I think the tank looks fabulous. Did think YT-1300 at first, but once it was placed on the tank, you could hardly tell.

Well, I'm trying to find the middle ground between convenience and detail. I have some nifty (theoretical) ideas on how to manage both, but I'm not sure if it will work out the way I would like it to.

Obviously its very much a WIP, but this is something I threw together last night. I decided to knock out a few smaller pieces to get some more experience with the 3d thing (as well as to give me a break from the tank), and to make some cash on the side. This is a heavy weapon platform, not unlike what you might find in Imperial Guard platoons. Weapon options-wise, I'm imagining twin light machine guns, a mortar, a heavy mg, AT rifle, high-energy laser, and cannon (with AT and fragmentation rounds). I should have the design finished by the end of next week (maybe not the weapons). The heavy mg and high-energy laser designs will probably be a first-look at the hull-mounted weapons for the tank, and I'm thinking a twin-linked AT rifle would make a pretty cool turret as well, don't you?

Once its done, I'm gonna see about finding a caster. Not sure if I want to sell these things directly, I'm consisering contacting Troll Forged, maybe Chapterhouse, maybe some others. I'll decide who I'm going w/ depending on the terms offered to me.



The big blue circle is the outline of a 60mm base. As you can see, it overhangs a bit, but I've never seen someone have an issue with a mini because it overhangs its base. Besides that, it kinda needed to be this big to capture the feel I was going for, I wasn't able to do exactly what I wanted to do, but I'm overall quite pleased.

Nice. That, I'm interested in.

Very nice! I'd vote for slightly smaller, if at all possible, to get the spades onto a 60mm base, though...

That said, if you get these out fairly soon and at a reasonable price-point, I'd be interested in quite a few for my Tallarn army. It'd save me having to convert up a bunch of weapons chassis for my heavy weapons. I never did like the original metal ones... 'Course I'd be trying to fit the older-style metal autocannon on most of them, so it'd also depend on if that was an "easy" fit.

Vale,

JohnS

Hmm, I'll see about making it smaller, but I'm kinda limited by technology. The smallest 'thin wall' I can do is .6mm and some of the walls are sitting at about 1mm right now, and I don't want these to be flimsy... so we'll see. Alternatively I can shorten the spade pole or whatever its called a bit. I personally prefer them longer, but it doesn't really significantly effect the appearance IMO.

I'm aiming to have these available for sale late february-marchish. Say 2 weeks to get the designs finished + 2 weeks to get prototypes + 2 weeks to get molds + 1-2 weeks of 'flex' time? Really it depends on the prototypist and the manufacturer. The prototypes shouldn't take more than a day + shipping time to get to me, unless they get hit with a big project at the same time. But the manufacturer is an unknown factor, since aside from not having one lined up yet, I don't know what their production times are like, etc.

As for weapons, the 'slot' on the shield is about 7.5mm wide, so if the old style metal autocannons are 7.5mm or less in width, you'll be good to go.

Pricewise, I don't really know, since I wouldn't be the one manufacturing them. Obviously there would be some sort of quantity discount (especially because I'll be needing a couple hundred of these things myself over the next year or so...). There will probably be a sliding scale on the price, with a bigger discount the more you buy.

Update time. The wheels and spades/spadepole thingies and the front of the shield are done. I only have the main structure and weapons left to do atm, and I had a really sweet idea on how to ensure the weapon remains securely in place while still being interchangeable (without the use of magnets). I'll have more on that next update.

Also, as you can see, I shortened the spades they still overhang SLIGHTLY but not really.

chaos0xomega wrote:Good eye major tom. It is NX 5.0

I also have solidworks, but I dont really ever use it.

I had maya and 3ds (and rhino 3d) but I had absolutely no idea how to use them, so I got rid of them. I still have blender, but I only kept it because it was the only one I had acquired legally out of the group. I'm an engineer, and thus recieved training on engineering software. To me, 3ds, maya, rhino, and blender are the most unintuitive, impossible to use software ever written.

Ever try Photoworks for Solidworks?

No, what does photoworks do? I'm guessing its a rendering application?

It is soooo pretty.

I wish it would fit in with my IG army... guess its time to mix regiments...

i want you to make it more like the falcon. EXAXTLY like it.

sparkywtf wrote:It is soooo pretty.

I wish it would fit in with my IG army... guess its time to mix regiments...

Whats your IG army? Should fit w just about any force I can think of, except maybe Elysians.

diarrhea attendant wrote:i want you to make it more like the falcon. EXAXTLY like it.

The tank or the heavy weapon platform?... Get back into your hole, troll!

I'm really liking the redesign. Would you be planning on offering the carriage without any weapons?

I'm definitely going to keep this on my "to watch" list...

Valete,

JohnS

cygnnus, I haven't given it much thought in regards to how would it be sold. Since this is destined for resin production (at least until I have enough money to do plastics and not end up in additional debt, on top of my student loans), I don't see why weaponless carriages would be an issue. I just have to figure out how to work the logistics system so I don't end up with a freight container of unwanted weapon bits.

chaos0xomega wrote:

sparkywtf wrote:It is soooo pretty.

I wish it would fit in with my IG army... guess its time to mix regiments...

Whats your IG army? Should fit w just about any force I can think of, except maybe Elysians.

Catachans... They would work for like artillery, but I just don't think they kind fit in with an army of Rambos running through the forest.

Then again, Chimeras don't really fit in either... oh well!

Depending on the price and weapon options, they would be a great way for me to get me 12+ heavy weapon squads... or w.e that apoc formation is!

sparkywtf wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

sparkywtf wrote:It is soooo pretty.

I wish it would fit in with my IG army... guess its time to mix regiments...

Whats your IG army? Should fit w just about any force I can think of, except maybe Elysians.

Catachans... They would work for like artillery, but I just don't think they kind fit in with an army of Rambos running through the forest.

Then again, Chimeras don't really fit in either... oh well!

Depending on the price and weapon options, they would be a great way for me to get me 12+ heavy weapon squads... or w.e that apoc formation is!

Part of the reason I'm doing this

I'm trying to put together a Praetorian infantry horde, and as such I need about 90 of these things just for that

And yeah, I see what you mean about Catachans, although I don't really think it would be quite so out of place. Even Catachans gotta set up defensive positions. Go research what a Vietnam War era firebase looked like

Like I said earlier, pricewise I have no clue, but I'm aiming for affordable en masse.

Weapons options wise, twin light machine guns, a mortar, a heavy mg, AT rifle, high-energy laser, and cannon (with AT and fragmentation rounds). I'll leave you to figure out what is usable with 40k IG armies.

Anywho, here is the mostly final design (barring weapons):




I made one major modification to the previous design. The spacing between the two wheels was increased 4mm in order to allow the weapon mount more freedom to rotate. It can now rotate about +-10 degrees.

I played around a bit with the idea of adding an electro-optical device on the opposite side of the gunshield from the vision slit. I decided against it because it seemed a bit like too much tech for something that is fairly crude.

I also played around a bit with the idea of a 'lower shield' to cover the space in between the two wheels. Not sure if its that important/if I should bother. Thoughts?

I'd say no on the lower shield.

1. From a IRL standpoint, a lower shield would make it more difficult to move through terrain.

2. from a casting perspective, a lower piece would be another mold, most likely.

1. Well, the Germans didn't seem to have an issue doing it: http://www.gamefront.nl/images/fh_pak40.jpg

2. Yeah, thats the main reason I didn't want to bother, although I think I can integrate it into one of the other pieces depending on the shape.

you must have been rendering that for a damn long time

chaos0xomega wrote:No, what does photoworks do? I'm guessing its a rendering application?

Basically yes. It now comes standard with Solidworks 2011. I haven't had time to play with it much, been too busy at the office.

I'm going to have to re-d/l solidworks then. I would like to provide better renders to you, my loyal fanbase...

...speaking of which, where are all the posts of validation from my adoring fans? I DEMAND VALIDATION!!!! AND ADORATION!!!!

(seriously, since May 2010 I only had 4 pages of posts.... on warseer I had 4 pages of posts in the first month(and half of them weren't mine...), what gives!?)

chaos0xomega wrote:I'm going to have to re-d/l solidworks then. I would like to provide better renders to you, my loyal fanbase...

...speaking of which, where are all the posts of validation from my adoring fans? I DEMAND VALIDATION!!!! AND ADORATION!!!!

(seriously, since May 2010 I only had 4 pages of posts.... on warseer I had 4 pages of posts in the first month(and half of them weren't mine...), what gives!?)

We're old. Pretty pictures impress, but vaporware is vaporware.

It isn't vaporware, I'm just lacking in encouragement.

Don't know about encouragement, but if you hit a good price point, you can be expecting remuneration...

Seriously, the weapons platforms are very nice. But I'd suggest Valhallan42nd's stance is not an unreasonable one. Get that thing in resin or whatever and you'll get some more positive words I'm sure.

Valete,

JohnS

cygnnus wrote:

Seriously, the weapons platforms are very nice. But I'd suggest Valhallan42nd's stance is not an unreasonable one. Get that thing in resin or whatever and you'll get some more positive words I'm sure.

Well considering that (barring the weapons) its finished, I'll be able to send the design to the printers as soon I get my student loan (about 3 weeks from now). However, that doesn't do me much good, as I need to find a caster.

Have you considered teaming up with Chapterhouse?

Great weapons platform! I could use with a pair of them for my DKoK.

Breotan is right, I would see if Chapterhouse is interested and I am sure they would be given the great looking model that you have designed.

I've considered it, but I'm not sure if I want to. As you probably know they are involved in legal action w/ GW. I am concerned that I will end up being involved in the situation (GW tried to nail Paulson Games for sculpting the superheavy walker (even though they DIDN'T sculpt it)), I don't want to end up in a similar position. Additionally, the heavy weapon platform is partially the product of me wanting money. I'm fairly certain I would make much much more directly selling the product, then by going through Chapterhouse. I would also have more control over the price, how it would be sold, etc. if I did it myself, whereas CHS would set whatever price they think is appropriate (which may be/probably is more than I would like it to be).

You should try using Photoworks, as suggested. Apply a material to the platform and hit the render. It's awesome, though it may be confusing at first.

Nice HWP, by the way

chaos0xomega wrote:I'm going to have to re-d/l solidworks then. I would like to provide better renders to you, my loyal fanbase...

...speaking of which, where are all the posts of validation from my adoring fans? I DEMAND VALIDATION!!!! AND ADORATION!!!!

(seriously, since May 2010 I only had 4 pages of posts.... on warseer I had 4 pages of posts in the first month(and half of them weren't mine...), what gives!?)

Your the best!!! Everything you make builds a desire in myself to spend loads of money.

Enough for you? Seriously, even that Heavy Weapons Platform is great.

chaos0xomega wrote:I've considered it, but I'm not sure if I want to. As you probably know they are involved in legal action w/ GW. I am concerned that I will end up being involved in the situation (GW tried to nail Paulson Games for sculpting the superheavy walker (even though they DIDN'T sculpt it)), I don't want to end up in a similar position. Additionally, the heavy weapon platform is partially the product of me wanting money. I'm fairly certain I would make much much more directly selling the product, then by going through Chapterhouse. I would also have more control over the price, how it would be sold, etc. if I did it myself, whereas CHS would set whatever price they think is appropriate (which may be/probably is more than I would like it to be).

If encouragement is what you need, then by all means: I have money. The things you are designing make me want to part with my money, because they are very cool, and fit with a retro sci-fi feel that fits my Wargames Factory Shock Troops quite well.

Please make the weapons platforms, so that I can give you my money.

LOL. I was just joking about the encouragement/adoration bit, but thanks guys

I think I figured out how I'm going to handle the weapons/no-weapons sales situation.... I just need to 1. Get the money I'm expecting, and 2. Find a moldmaker/caster 3. Finish the weapons

Right, so I have money, prints will be coming soon, I'm still playing with the model a bit before I send it off for a quote, seeing if there is anything I can improve on, and making sure that its suitable for printing/casting, etc.

I'm looking for possible manufacturers for this thing. I've decided, since most of you seem to have expressed interest in the platform sans weaponry, to push ahead without weapons for now (since I'm having a bit of modelers block in regards to them), this way you all have less to wait. The weapons will still be produced, its just going to be a while before we see them.

Obviously, no idea on a price yet, won't have an estimate until I can talk to the printers and the manufacturers.

chaos0xomega wrote:Right, so I have money, prints will be coming soon, I'm still playing with the model a bit before I send it off for a quote, seeing if there is anything I can improve on, and making sure that its suitable for printing/casting, etc.

I'm looking for possible manufacturers for this thing. I've decided, since most of you seem to have expressed interest in the platform sans weaponry, to push ahead without weapons for now (since I'm having a bit of modelers block in regards to them), this way you all have less to wait. The weapons will still be produced, its just going to be a while before we see them.

Obviously, no idea on a price yet, won't have an estimate until I can talk to the printers and the manufacturers.

Outstanding news! Can't wait to hear details on when it's up for sale (and hoping it'll come in a a price point that doesn't hurt too bad!), how it looks "in the flesh", etc... And great idea, from my perspective at least, on opting not to hold the platform up for weaponry. You can always work that later...

Valete,

JohnS

Update: no good news, I've tried emailing a couple of foundries, etc. No dice, haven't heard back from any of them a week later...

Update: slightly better news! I was directed towards another service, and these guys are LEGIT. Hoping to hear back from them soon, probably not until after the weekend, but depending what they say, I may be going towards plastic w/ this (fortunately I considered that when I started designing this thing. Going to have to make a couple minor modifications, but it shouldn't take long).

chaos0xomega wrote:Update: slightly better news! I was directed towards another service, and these guys are LEGIT. Hoping to hear back from them soon, probably not until after the weekend, but depending what they say, I may be going towards plastic w/ this (fortunately I considered that when I started designing this thing. Going to have to make a couple minor modifications, but it shouldn't take long).

Plastic? Cool... I'm sure there are many of us here waiting to see how it turns out!

Valete,

JohnS

If these get into production, I will start a guard army just because of them!

chaos0xomega wrote:Update: slightly better news! I was directed towards another service, and these guys are LEGIT. Hoping to hear back from them soon, probably not until after the weekend, but depending what they say, I may be going towards plastic w/ this (fortunately I considered that when I started designing this thing. Going to have to make a couple minor modifications, but it shouldn't take long).

Any news? (Who, me? Impatient? Pshaw...)

Valete,

JohnS

I love this tank! I would buy it if it was available for sale

Tanks temporarily back-burnered while I try to crank out the weapon platform, etc.

Haven't heard back yet, but I've been using the power of math to figure out materials usage, etc. (for the platform) and well, I feel good about this... lets just say that if I did this myself, it would cost me about 20 cents per casting in materials... This does NOT mean thats what the casters will charge me, I expect the cost to be a good bit more to account for time, plus the cost of molds and other procedures, etc. but it gives me a baseline to work with.

Hurry up so you can take ridiculous amounts of my money.

Going as fast as I can, but I kinda have to rely on other people having the courtesy to respond to communications... still waiting...

In the meantime, I finished modifications to the design. The shield piece and the weapon mount are no longer a single piece, so it should make molding/casting a bit easier. I also lowered the height of the mounting point 2mm, so the weapon won't sit quite so high in relation to the shield.

Tank looks lovely, would consider a gaurd army for it, assuming I'm not completely burnt out after all the projects I currently have going on.

Man if you do this i will make you rich!

I FINALLY GOT A RESPONSE!! W00T W00T!!

Discussions have started, lets hope for the best.

As an aside, once I get stuff with the weapon carriage sorted out and available to you all, I'm going to get the weapons out of the way, and then get back to the tank.

Update: Bad news. The price of molds was pretty much in the ballpark I expected, but the cost per copy was way too high (8 dollars a copy at their bulk discount rate, screw that). I'm going to look elsewhere.

chaos0xomega wrote:Update: Bad news. The price of molds was pretty much in the ballpark I expected, but the cost per copy was way too high (8 dollars a copy at their bulk discount rate, screw that). I'm going to look elsewhere.

$8 per to you? So the "retail" would be, what, double that? Yeah... That's probably be too high... Pity.

Valete,

JohnS

Yeah, 8 per to me. Which is completely unreasonable given that they only need about 10-20 cents of material per copy to make it. Yeah, I get that there are additional costs and that they need to turn a profit, but that is absolutely ridiculously high.

Another update, I'm looking into plastics some more. My school happens to have machine shops capable of cutting molds.... ordinarily I wouldn't have access to this unless I was taking certain specific classes, etc. but a good friend of mine happens to help run the shop and offered to help me out!

Could work provided you could find the resources to produce the stuff at a reasonable price. Glad you found a better way to produce this stuff, the company that you contacted charged you way too much, I would say it would cost way less to produce kits of the size you are planning.

Commander Cain wrote:Could work provided you could find the resources to produce the stuff at a reasonable price. Glad you found a better way to produce this stuff, the company that you contacted charged you way too much, I would say it would cost way less to produce kits of the size you are planning.

Well, if I produced the molds I would need to find and contract a foundry to mold it for me, but the machine shops here have plastic injection machines, so I might be able to crank out a couple hundred at what basically amounts to 'at cost' for sale to you guys.

First I need to redo some parts to make it compatible w/ the injection process.

Look forward to it. I'm doing Elysians, which are supposed to lightweight drop troops, but since I love your minis so much, I'm going to justify it in my fluff...somehow....

Its all looking amazing. I really hope to hear some good news about getting those casts made up for all of us who want to get our hands on them!

I want updates. your stuff is looking good.

No real updates, real life has been kicking my ass. I just decided about 10 minutes ago that I should get in contact with chapterhouse and see if they would be interested.

Or try maxmini? they do a lot of cool stuff. www.maxmini.eu

Maxmini is a quality manufacturer who also happens to not be in litigation right now.

Liking your stuff, shot you a PM.

Maxmini is getting sued aswell by who and over what? sorry to derail your topic? anyone shoot me a PM to clear up my lack of knowledge?

Still very interested in this project. Hopefully someone takes it on, it's too good to pass up.

I like the turret...but it DOES look like the Millenium Falcon!

chaos0xomega, the weapons platform looks ace
I like your tank too, looks sleek and fast.. not slow and fat like the Leman Russ.
Really hope everything pans out and you find a manufacturer soon, I'd definitely depart with some of my money.

I hope you find a manufacturer soon! With the price of GW going up, we are gonna need someone with a great looking model!

Also, the tank needs to get done! I am half tempted to offer up money to make the molds as long as I get something back from it! Anything to add a great option.

If you have the kind of money to make that kind of investment, I will gladly work out a deal with you if it will help make it a reality (obviously I'm nowhere near ready to accept such an investment, but if you're serious pm me and we'll talk).

Classes are winding down, so I'll have summer the summer to work on this stuff, and I'm talking to people to try to make the weapon platform (at least) happen soonish. Sorry for the lack of updates, but real life has been kicking my butt.

Can't wait to see some progress.

Time for me to start checking on prices of getting things made in resin.

I want some of these with cannons
have always wanted an Artillery Regiment and these look the things that can give me it, without pouring money into FW
If you can fit the gun carriage onto one sprue it will be very well recieved
have you considered using Shapeways? they CNC the parts and sell them for you.

SteelSpectre wrote:Look forward to it. I'm doing Elysians, which are supposed to lightweight drop troops, but since I love your minis so much, I'm going to justify it in my fluff...somehow....

This shouldn't be too hard, current and past military forces have slung howitzers, tanks, gun carriages and such under helicopters, I see no reason Elysians wouldn't have a similar capability.

Found a pic...

I might give shapeways a shot in the near future, but I've seen their work in the past, and I've never been impressed, their machines aren't really meant for this level of detail.

I've tried getting in touch with Paulson Games, but they seem to be lacking in the communications department...

Fingers are crossed.

Sent an email to chapterhouse today. They might be in the midst of legal action, but they seem to be more responsive to communication from their customer base than the other groups I've tried contacting. Lets see what they say.

Heard anything back yet? Just a thought, but you could possibly collaborate with Warmill? He is in the midst of setting up his own shop.

Dunno who Warmill is...

I'm discussing with Chapterhouse right now. We'll see where it leads.

Ow my ego!

Lol in all seriousness warmill is me and Ed, we've just started making our own stuff. Because we're nuts we're doing everything ourselves, CAD, machining of masters, moulding and casting, etc. At the moment we're cutting the masters for our Valkyrie conversion kit. We have been following your thread for a while now and did actually talk about approaching you about the weapon platforms a while back. If Chapterhouse doesn't work out for you shoot us a message and we can have a chat.

At the very least, knowing someone else is interested never hurt anyone's bargaining power

Harry - warmill

Actually I have seen your stuff before, it was a few months ago, thought it was cool, didn't pay enough attention to the man behind the ideas, my bad.

Yep, will definitely keep you in mind for the future/depending on what Chapterhouse says.

So chapterhouse fell through, now in discussion with warmill (I hope).

Sorry about the Chapterhouse. Good luck with Warmill. They seem really busy, so yeah... I want your stuff though, SOMEBODY needs to make it soon.

Its alright (and to be clear here, tihis is not an issue I have w/ chapterhouse, I expected this might occur. Long story short, Chapterhouse is not a casting house, they hire out to casting services to get their stuff done. The casting houses, for whatever reason, were charging large sums per copy of the mini. The material cost is something to the effect 10-20 cents (US) per copy, they were asking probably in the ballpark of 7 to 8 bucks each...(on top of the mold costs). It just wasn't economically feasible for chapterhouse to produce them, with the markup, they would come out to at least 15 bucks for just a single copy of the gun. I would like to get the price more in the ballpark of a 1/2-1/3 that cost, because honestly, nobody is really going to even consider these as a viable option for their army at anything more than that.

From what I understand, warmill does everything in house, so they may be able to get these into production at a more reasonable cost. They also seem to be pretty smart fellows, with some innovative ideas on how to produce things, so who knows what they will come up with.

Good to hear. I didn't expect it to be Chapterhouse being a problem, but still sucks cause we have to wait longer to get ahold of your fantastic designs!

I know, I'm trying. If warmill doesn't work out, I think I may try troll forged (but from what I understand hes extremely backed up), because really I see no other option.

Okay, so Warmill fell through, it is beyond their current ability of in-house production it seems. Wasn't able to get through to troll-forged...

...so... I'm going back to the original plan of plastic production (or at the very least RIM - Rapid Injection Molding, which is basically resin casting on a larger scale). I'm currently working on a couple other projects for some friends, but as I wrap those up I'll be getting back to work on this stuff. I'll need to make some minor alterations to the design in order to make it fully compatible with the plastic molding process, but for the most part these will be structural/engineering based rather than cosmetic. I'll also be getting moving on the weapon options, if you have any ideas/suggestions for weapon types, feel free to post them (pics, etc.).

The way I see it, is that I'll be leaving college in December with about 50,000 dollars in debt, the cost of getting molds tooled and a production line started won't really make things that much worse (we're talking about adding another $10k in debt, not that that much in the grand scheme of things), and this will at least see a return provided I can generate enough sales.

Anyway, to get an idea of how feasible this will be, I need you guys to answer a short questionnaire for me (please be honest/realistic):

1. Assuming cost is no object, how many weapon carriage models do you want/need? Consider this as the total/maximum number you would purchase to meet your current mini wants/needs.

2. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 3 for $24?

3. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 5 for $35?

4. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 15 for $90?

Note that these prices are subject to change, they are what I figure I will be able to charge based on my estimates. In terms of material/production costs they are more than realistic, the real questionmark is the cost of production molds, and if/when I will be able to recoup that investment.

I'd probably be interested or willing to get the 5 pack, or 2 sets of 3- and that's just for the carrage, not with any weapons. I'd be looking at them more for some Big Gunz for my Orks, rather than IG.

Which is actually something you ought to think about- are you trying for something that's mostly compatible/to be used with 40k? Or are you looking to sell these as generic "Heavy Iron Gun Carriage" models?

Actually, if they're near or equal to the rendered model in detail, I'd probably be willing to buy a 3 pack for $35-40. It's pretty nice detail, and a good aesthetic- plus it'd be useable in most steampunk or gothic sci-fi setting, and it even looks like it'd have some nice bits on it for conversion and scratch work.

They are generic gun carriages, born out of my desire to see guard armies running around with a light version of ww2 era german pak 36s/40s. In other words, they are generic, so they won't be limited to use by 40k gamers, but they are being modeled with an eye towards 40k players.

As for Orks, it shouldn't be hard to convert the carriage, a couple bits like glyphplates or plasticard here and there and you're good. The weapons won't be orky per-se, but they are going to be on the lower tech side of the sci-fi spectrum, My missile launcher equivalent should be suitable for use as a kannon more or less out of the box, and so should the lascannon equivalent be suitable for the zzap gun (I might even throw in an extra bit that you can attach to the end of the barrel that is reminiscent of the shokk attack gun to make it a bit easier). The only question is the mortar/lobba option. I'm debating whether to include a mortar at all, as including it would require a modification to both the carriage and the shield.

As for detail, they should come out virtually the same as the rendered model. The design is within the limits of (high end) printing/CAM technology.

Nice. And the rokkets- eherm, sorry, Rockets would work fine as Lobbas, really. Orky players can always konvert if need be.

I would buy in 3 or like 9 packs, as that just makes sense for certain rules.

How many I would buy, well that depends more on the time they come out, during the school year, that is hard to say.

Obviously if they were on the cheaper side, I would purchase a lot of them.

Well,I'm trying to keep them as cheap as possible, but I need to at the very least be able to break even, so the price is ultimately determined by my perception of demand...

chaos0xomega wrote:Okay, so Warmill fell through, it is beyond their current ability of in-house production it seems. Wasn't able to get through to troll-forged...

...so... I'm going back to the original plan of plastic production (or at the very least RIM - Rapid Injection Molding, which is basically resin casting on a larger scale). I'm currently working on a couple other projects for some friends, but as I wrap those up I'll be getting back to work on this stuff. I'll need to make some minor alterations to the design in order to make it fully compatible with the plastic molding process, but for the most part these will be structural/engineering based rather than cosmetic. I'll also be getting moving on the weapon options, if you have any ideas/suggestions for weapon types, feel free to post them (pics, etc.).

The way I see it, is that I'll be leaving college in December with about 50,000 dollars in debt, the cost of getting molds tooled and a production line started won't really make things that much worse (we're talking about adding another $10k in debt, not that that much in the grand scheme of things), and this will at least see a return provided I can generate enough sales.

Anyway, to get an idea of how feasible this will be, I need you guys to answer a short questionnaire for me (please be honest/realistic):

1. Assuming cost is no object, how many weapon carriage models do you want/need? Consider this as the total/maximum number you would purchase to meet your current mini wants/needs.

2. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 3 for $24?

3. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 5 for $35?

4. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 15 for $90?

Note that these prices are subject to change, they are what I figure I will be able to charge based on my estimates. In terms of material/production costs they are more than realistic, the real questionmark is the cost of production molds, and if/when I will be able to recoup that investment.

Shame about the other options falling through. Although an extra $10k might seem like a lot on top of the other debt you'll be carrying, make sure you're thinking with your wallet there and not your heart!

That said, on to your question...

1. Ideally? Probably on the order of 15-18. Enough to do a good number of Heavy Weapon squads and HW for my line squads. Less, of course, the mortars and missile launchers anyway... Yeah... 15 would probably do it. 18 might be overkill, although that's a concept that's fairly foreign to Guard...

Hard time answering the other questions, but overall, I'd probably have a total budget of not more than ~$100 for the heavy weapons platforms for my Tallarn since I'd still have to deal with weapons and crew. That said, I'd probably wouldn't be willing to plop down $90 "sight unseen" on the platforms, no matter how nice the renders looked until I could get a sense of whether or not they'd work for what I'd want. Don't get me wrong, they renders look very nice, but I'd want to make sure they work before I'd be happy dropping the big monies.

But in short, your #4 option would work quite well for me, with the one caveat outlined above.

So, yeah, if you can get the prices in the range you've listed above, and the models come out looking like one would hope, I'd expect to be good for ~$100.

But to rain one last time on the parade, are there 100+ folks (and that's not even factoring in material cost and labor!) who'd be willing to pay that much to get you to the break-even point on a $10k investment? I certainly don't want to discourage the introduction of these platforms, as they have potential, mind you. Just a cautionary note...

Valete,

JohnS

Well, thats why I'm asking people to answer these questions for me, to give me an idea of how many an 'average' customer would buy (I would take myself, but I have need for about 90 of them, I'm probably right in assuming I'm not 'average'), be it 1 or 100. I'm figuring that I can realistically expect about 100-150 people minimum will make a purchase within 3 month of release (especially following my intended marketing blitz, sending out a couple free samples for review by BOLS, BoK, TGN, BoW, etc. so I can get the word out). Using that number I can determine the economic feasibility of actually making the investment to get this done. I'm willing to eat a small initial loss on this (by small I mean a few hundred bucks to a grand or so) because once this is in production, it will generate revenue effectively on its own with only a minor investment on my part to maintain production lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, serious question, how do you guys feel about the inclusion of ammocrates/weapon accessories? Yes or you can live without them/use existing bits? It won't really impact costs that much, just time (to make them).

Honestly, I'd sell them separately, and keep the prices of each 'package' low. That way folks will have the option of buying the gun carriage without the guns, the guns without the carriage, the ammo crates without either, etc... It opens up the market to those who aren't necessarily looking for field artillery miniatures, and are just looking for 'guns' of some description, or trailers, or things to mount other stuff on. Plus, psychologically speaking, the average person's going to be more likely to buy two kits, one for $15 and one for $10, than one kit for $25, even if they contain the exact same things, because each kit is below the 'cheapness' threshold.

Unfortunately its not the option. The cost of doing separate molds for weapons and carriages is effectively twice the cost of doing one mold for both. We're talking 3-4k dollars for each set of molds in that case.

Although selling them seperatly would bring the possibility of you having excess stock of one while running out of the other it is still possible to sell them seperatly even if they are manufactured together.

I look forward to seeing your project comming to fruition.

mullet_steve wrote:Although selling them seperatly would bring the possibility of you having excess stock of one while running out of the other it is still possible to sell them seperatly even if they are manufactured together.

Thats the reason why its not going to happen.

Don't know if it's too late to answer but I would do 2 3-packs at the moment.
However if I get my lazy butt in gear it would probably be another 2 3-packs at the end of the year as well.

Never too late to chime in (unless I'm already pumping stuff out for production). Thanks for the data!

If we're talking about theoretical maximums, I could be persuaded to get 2 of the 15-for-$90 deal.

However - I'd want to see the finished, produced items first. I'd also have to take into account the postage costs.

Additionally and with no offence, but I'd likely prefer to purchase them via eBay or some such, as sending $200-odd to a guy off a board with a promise to send me some stuff is too risky. With eBay I have some protection for my payment. Same deal with the more established webstores.

Thanks for the thoughts scipio.

Out of curiosity, how do you guys feel about kickstarter? I"m contemplating finishing the design and getting quotes, etc. for plastic. Depending on what I hear I'll start a kickstarter campaign, and if enough people pitch in I can get this moving for realsies. As a reward, I would give people that donated free kits for every x number dollars they committed, ideally the dollar value for this would be less than the retail value of each kit, making it more advantageous to donate to the kickstarter then to sit and wait, and also making it a sort of 'preorder' system.

As for seeing a real example of this before committing, I would get some prototype prints first, assemble/paint them and display them for all to see first (obviously).

Kickstarter might be a good idea. Get some folks who've shown interest to put a bit of skin in the game as it were...

Valete,

JohnS

I would probably do a kickstarter.

Anything to help you eventually bring out amazingly beautiful tanks

I may actually donate to that, if you were to start one. I'd actually love to get one or two of those carriages and maybe a gun or two.

Cool, great to hear. I'm about to finish wrapping up a couple of unrelated projects, as soon as that is done, figure about a week or two for me to finish the plastic version of the design files plus weapons, another week for a quote/negotiations and then kickstarter is a go. From there I can get moving on the tank again, and hopefully get that done in a reasonable timeframe.

So you're going plastic?

Wow 15 for $90? I'd be on that like a fat kid to a smartie! Though realistically speaking my budget would likely see me jumping on 3 to start with. But how to say no to $6/pc? .




You know; there are some cannons not made for certain vehicles **cough** basilisk **cough** variants **cough** that I'd like to see your eventual 3d sculpts for. Both the gun carriage and the tank look awesome and I think fit in to the Imperial vehicle design nicely; though would be on the newer end of tanks of course.


The only concern I have for the LRBT is that the front hull mount weapon seems like it would be getting more than a 45° firing arc :S. Not that I wouldn't love my tank to have a larger field of view, but I know a lot would rag on it for being modeled for advantage; well in this case purchased for advantage .

Coyotius wrote:So you're going plastic?

Afraid so Coyotius. Well, really it depends on how the Kickstarter goes. I may still have some resin work for you down the line, but nobody is really doing sci-fi plastics atm, and I wanted to go plastic since the beginning.

Dracheous wrote:Wow 15 for $90? I'd be on that like a fat kid to a smartie! Though realistically speaking my budget would likely see me jumping on 3 to start with. But how to say no to $6/pc? .




You know; there are some cannons not made for certain vehicles **cough** basilisk **cough** variants **cough** that I'd like to see your eventual 3d sculpts for. Both the gun carriage and the tank look awesome and I think fit in to the Imperial vehicle design nicely; though would be on the newer end of tanks of course.


The only concern I have for the LRBT is that the front hull mount weapon seems like it would be getting more than a 45° firing arc :S. Not that I wouldn't love my tank to have a larger field of view, but I know a lot would rag on it for being modeled for advantage; well in this case purchased for advantage .

I thought hull mounts had 90° arcs? woops....

And yes, I have plans for an APC halftrack and associated variants (artillery, anti air, Rocket, flame tank, and light tank). That is obviously farther down the line.

The front is a 45 arc, but it shouldn't really matter. It isn't like it is that hard to measure a 45 from the center of the turret. I would keep it as is cause it looks awesome!

chaos0xomega wrote:

Afraid so Coyotius. Well, really it depends on how the Kickstarter goes. I may still have some resin work for you down the line, but nobody is really doing sci-fi plastics atm, and I wanted to go plastic since the beginning.

Well, I wish you a sincere best of luck. You know how to reach me if you change your mind...still might not hurt to get a quote from me though.

Talizvar wrote:Ummm... looks really cool but I cannot shake the feeling that with the first picture you unconsciously made a "Millennium Falcon" turret.

Sigged baby,

And I think it looks good. What software are you using?

I agree with anyone who mentioned this looks Like the Merkava MBT...which is fairly well known as the Milleniium Falcon in target identification.
The only gripe I have about the tank is probably intentional on your part. In the rear the tracks slope down instead of up...fits GW models but not the real world. and the lengthy space between the 6 road wheels and the seventh could be mashed up, maybe 3 close a space, 2 space, 2. Just a thought. good luck on production.

BroneJon, I'm using NX 7.5

Auston, the rear tracks actually slope up, just not as severely as in most real world vehicles. There are only 6 road wheels, the 7th one is actually an idler. You can make it out a bit better if you look at the side profile view in the first post. I'm contemplating making the idler a bit smaller to make the effect a bit more pronounced.

If these can go to Australia i would say 15 pack. that would be awesome for guard.

I don't see why it couldn't go to Oz/NZ. There will be a higher s&h, but just because GW is screwing you guys doesn't mean I will too. I'm almost done with my other obligations, should be two-three days, and then I can get back to work. Aiming to open up the Kickstarter around October at the latest.

1. Assuming cost is no object, how many weapon carriage models do you want/need? Consider this as the total/maximum number you would purchase to meet your current mini wants/needs.

- I would take 8 of the weapon carriages

2. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 3 for $24?

-3 orders of 3

3. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 5 for $35?

-3 orders of 5

4. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 15 for $90?

-one order

I would also buy 5-8 of those tanks, even if they were $30 each. Realism plus scale plus the baneblade feel on the engine compartment really makes them cool in my book. Outstanding job.

Thanks for the vote of approval

I'm getting started again this weekend on the weapons carraiges. Aiming for 1 to 2 week working time before I'm ready to start asking around for quotes. Figure another week or so for that, and then an unknown quantity of time for me to get prints of the model, and then its kickstarter time.

The tank, as much as I would like to push it through, is going to have to take a back seat for a little time. The file size is virtually unworkable onmy now woefully out of date laptop, need a real job before I can afford a new one. I may have a go at trying to break it down into smaller chunks so I can work at it again, but even trying that is going to be a nightmare and a half.

Gonna have a bit of an update for you in the next couple days, I've been redesigning some pieces for plastic production, and so far it looks great

Sorry fella's, classes have unexpectedly hit me like a ton of bricks, things should slow down in a couple weeks so I can put more time into this, but my projected timeline may have been a bit optimistic...

In any case, here is a teaser pic of the redesigned wheel to whet your appetites.



And yes, coming up with a tread pattern that will cast in a single piece and still look reasonably 'real' is a labor of love.

Are you still doing this?
You can put me down for a few, as well. Both tanks and the weapon carraiges. Get this done soon!

Yes, I'm still doing this, or trying to. I think I have the monetary issues all resolved, but I still can't find the time to finish the designs and ask for quotes. It's like every time I think I'm going to have an easy week and be able to put some more time in, I get hit with a surprise exam + 3 papers. Hopefully, next week will be different, but I'm not counting on it.

Oh, I've also figured out how to get slightly more realistic looking renders, so hopefully I'll have some better looking renders for y'all.

you could always upload it to shapeways...

Shapeways printers can't handle this level of detail. Not happening.

Define level of detail, i dont see much that cant be done at 0.1mm

Well, I'm not fond of the frosted texture, nor am I fond of the 25+ dollar per copy price to have it printed using their frosted ultra detail material. Besides that, the material itself is kinda flimsy (IMO) and better suited to a display model rather than something you want to play with.

In any case, its not happening, so trying to convince me otherwise is not worth the effort.

for that tank, would the Ryza russ turrets work on it? Also would it have sponsons like a macharius, that would look sweet! and maybe hide the road wheels like all 40k tanks
Id buy one or 3 or 10!

Nope. The entirety of the Ryza turret (sans weapon) would fit inside the turret ring, so you would have to construct a new top to fit it properly (and it would look silly).

The sponsons will look similar to the Macharius's, but I think its really closer to the Macharius hull weapon mount rather than the sponson mount:



The road wheels are staying as is, the point is to make a generic sci-fi vehicle that will suitably represent a russ or any other scifi mbt. The 40k look is completely unrealistic, and therefore is out of the question.

as for buying 3 or 10, good! I'm hoping that if/when this goes somewhere (I'll be buying a new laptop/pc soonish so I'm hoping to be able to get cracking on it, as well as hopefully getting a job...), I can make them affordable enough that its a realistic possibility for you.

OK!

I have not been totally idle...



Working on a new design for the weapon mount

Pics of the (AFAIK) completed redesign, 100% plastic friendly. Hoping to at least have one or two weapon concepts done around this time next week

have you tried any architectural modelling firms? they usually have some top of the range kit, I did a week of work experience when i was at school with one and they let me go up now and use their casting and laser cutting facilities if i give them some notice and they're not to busy.. might be worth a try, I'd give you their number but seeing as you're in the USA and I'm in the UK it wouldn't make sense..

Nah, haven't really looked into anything like that. I'm more looking at industrial solutions rather than small scale "garage kit" type things.

Looking great, but you gotta stop polishing the cannonball and get that thing in production (at a reasonable price)!

Valete,

JohnS

I know I know I know... I started some basic work on weapons... I'm thinking of throwing in a RIM-116 esque launcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile) just for giggles :3

Remember, you're a startup. Don't try to get GW or PP quality right off- even they had terrible sculpts when they started out- but if you can get even mediocre sculpts of interesting things cheap enough, you'll do fine.

MERRY CHRISTMAS! (and if you dont celebrate chrimbo, too bad, its not just for Christians anymore anyway)




So, in keeping with the spirit of generic sci-fi, the first weapon up is a mini-MRLS type thing, perfect for use as a mortar or missile launcher. This one has 12 launch tubes, each 2mm in diameter. I'll be doing another variant with larger tubes (probably 3-4mm in diameter) for those that like their oversize weaponry.

I'm also going to do an optional display screen piece that attaches to the frame (for use with this and other weapons) to provide a slightly more sci-fi targeting/firing mechanism than the mk1 eyeball and joystick trigger.

I like this artillery piece, but wouldn't it be smarter to have the missiles be mounted on a tripod, as cannons and mortars are more likely to be set on a rolling mount?

That's a really nice design for a missile pack, I had been wondering what you were going to try for that.

Thanks! Heres the "heavy" version (4mm diameter tubes)





I'm also about halfway done with a mortar type weapon that will be able to double as a heavy anti tank cannon with a longer barrel attachment.

After that its a laser cannon and large caliber rifle, and then I'll mess around with some concepts for an HMG and twin LMGs Oh, and the targeting display attachment, etc.

I like tyhis heavy weapon design.

*clicks subscribe*

Hi, i love your project! I have a thing for 3d modeling ever since school so this is right up my street. I've been watching your progress for quite a long time and i'd actually quite like to see some tutorials if you have the time? It'd be nice to see what your methods are, most people tend to have their own way of doing things with CAD.

It is looking very cool indeed.

Wow! If they look this good I will buy 15 for $90,- in a heartbeat.

My Krieg infantry needs some good looking heavy weapons carriages that aren't 17 pounds each.

Thanks TiB! The project is progressing slowly, I've finished school, and am now employed full time... looking for full time employment >< I'll be doing some more work on the weapons this week I think.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
The word is "subconscious"... if he did it while he was unconscious it would be considered a miracle that he could do anything at all...

Was not paying attention to this thread.

I just hate it when I am corrected when no correction is needed: "The Deliberation-Without-Attention Effect"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscious_Thought_Theory

Please research a little bit before you correct someone, it makes you look silly.

Please let dead threads rest in peace.