Some other things like Plastic Giant and catapult have to wait for a second wave.
Mahu wrote:So in 40k news, Tzeentch and Thousand Sons Players got two alternate Deflier/Soul Grinder Models, and the perfect fiends and seeker counts as.
... and Greater Daemons and Dark Eldar Ssliths and lots of Necron stuff!
I like it. The field of skeleton bits adds to the feel of things as one stands above the others, a hidden message of even in death there is no escape from servitude to your betters.
So we get these great pictures of snake undead things, undead
MOUNTED on snake undead things, and giant Sphinx undead
monstrous things, and the tomb guard just kind of look like that?
I understand the need for rank and file, but Tomb Guard are more
than that, so they should look stellar. These undead just look...
bored.
The rest is ace. I look forward to a "painting obsidian" guide.
I wouldn't say that cover is ugly, I'd say it looks good. HOWEVER, I don't think it suits Codex/Army Book Covers, I like a drawing of a large part of the army/range, not just a single skeleton and some skulls.
An action shot at least IMHO.
I don't think it's ugly, but I don't think it's suitable either.
That artist...Gallagher? Is so dated....totally need kopinski on that one.
How is it dated? You can barely even see the detail on it, it's low res and cropped wrong.
I was referring to its style. GW artwork has evolved alot in the past 10 years, and that artist work, to my eyes, look horibbly dated. It looks like something out of the old 90's "RED" phase. The previous cover was a much better piece of art.
That artist...Gallagher? Is so dated....totally need kopinski on that one.
How is it dated? You can barely even see the detail on it, it's low res and cropped wrong.
I was referring to its style. GW artwork has evolved alot in the past 10 years, and that artist work, to my eyes, look horibbly dated. It looks like something out of the old 90's "RED" phase. The previous cover was a much better piece of art.
+1
Quick, somebody photoshop a flying-V guitar on that guy.
Total fail on the cover front, much prefer the old one too
I smell a lot of TK stuff being sold - everybody 10 and up loves giant monsters! That said, those stalkers are the sort of model that makes me build entire armies. I'm assuming there's a special character that lets me field them as core? Hot damn
It seems that getting the current army box seems to be a good idea, none of those models seem to be updated and the savings is only going down when they re-do it.
I'm liking the rare version of the sphinx, and the stalkers. The rest of it is garbage. I'm especially disappointed in the new TG. Being given the choice between getting the ugly new models and being stuck with sword'n'board as my only equipment option is excruciating. Well, in any case, I better get me some more metal TG before they disappear, I refuse to get these hideous new ones.
I wonder what the unit size will be on stalkers...I'd love to have six or more of them pop up under someone's deathstar and count as pulling off a rear charge, just as TG hit em in the front. We may have our replacement hammer unit here...
And the necrosphinx...heroic killing blow? Really? C'mere, hydras, I gots a present for yas.
I'm glad to see pics of the new models, but I'm more interested in rules changes, especially in terms of magic.
Finally some skeletons I can respect, when i first saw the army page for the tomb kings I was like "Holy SHIAT, STUPER SKELETON ARMYIES!?!?!¿" then I got bored looking at a bunch of flimsy looking skeletons with swords and closed the page. The old models had very little detail and cheesy looking skeletal horses, I'm glad TK got some really interesting models, instead of more GIANT SKELETON man ooohoooOOOoooOO.
I planned on starting Tomb Kings, but I'm a bit concerned that the older skeletons, the troops, and particularly the chariot horses are going to look all out of proportion and dated next to the new Tomb Guard, might have to wait and see what wave 2 brings (which would also give me time to paint my backlog before starting something else!)
Big winged thingy is defo a seperate kit from the Warsphinix. Left front leg is in a different position entirely.
And by using my mysterio-vision, looks like the Snakeyknight Dudes have Killing Blow, and can be upgraded to be underground troops. Mounts have poisoned attacks (figures). Oh, and the sepulchural stalkers can also Digstrike (yes, a new term coined by me because burrowing doesn't sound as cool)
This thing made me want to convert a pre-heresy Thousand Sons librarian dreadnought. I'm really considering doing an army now.
Make that a Ksons librarian dreadnought! The obsidian bit behind the head screams "psychic hood"
And here I expected a gay looking sphinx. This model and the mount are the only two that I like. Looks like my 10k of tomb kings wont be changing too much.
Is anyone else looking at this model and thinking Chaos dragon ogre repeat or even a dragon ogre shaggoth made Egyptian?
Anyone else getting ideas for an eldar wraithlord with the big guy?, might have to kit bash that up when they get a new dex, I always get a sort of egyptian feel from CW eldar.
Mr Mystery wrote:Big winged thingy is defo a seperate kit from the Warsphinix. Left front leg is in a different position entirely.
There is still a good chance that they could be the same kit. Look at the differences between the Trygon and Mawloc. They were equally as different as the two sphinxes. The left front leg could easily be adjustable for a different position. The have the same body, legs, and tail. Even part of the chest area is the same.
If they are in the same kit, I will be very happy, because the second one's torso and arms look like they would fit perfectly on a Thousand Suns Soul Grinder.
+ Overall - Good
+ Plastic Tomb King - Neutral. Not a bad model by any stretch, but... unimpressive, either next to the old metal version or the other new models. Being plastic is its main boon (It is plastic, yes?). Wait to give a thumbs up or thumbs down until I see what alternate options are.
+ Warsphynx - Good. I'm so-so about the Tomb Guard on top, but the model itself is overall gorgeous. Somewhat static, yes, but I'm sure there's parts to fix that.
+ Sepulchral Stalkers - Love them. Adore them. I want one. Or three.
+ Necropolis Knights - Very eh. Snakes are alright, but the riders... they seem much more "barbaric" than I imagine Tomb Kings as. Less "controlled" too.
+ Tomb Guard - Neutral. They look nice, yes. Plastic too, which - even if $30 USD / 10 (which wouldn't surprise me), would be a good $5-15 cheaper than their metal versions. But... I prefer the old look over the new one. The old ones had a decent mixture of "ornate" and "professional", while these look much more ornate than professional.
+ Mega-Sphynx - Good. Think it's gorgeous, overall, but something seems... "off", from the arms, keeping me from giving the same result as Sepulchral Stalkers.
+ Army Book Cover - Neutral. It seems a bit... "empty", and a let-down from the Tomb King cover last edition (Which, IMO, was one of the best covers of that series of army books).
1.) Rumours have been quite certain for several months that there will be no resculpts of the current plastic boxes in the first wave. Tomb Kings only have 3 plastic kits, other plastic kits have higher priority, more than fit into the first wave (Giant, catapult).
2.) With plastic Tomb Guard you have loads of bitz to upgrade the look of the old infantry.
3.) Yes, old Khemri skeletons are taller than current VC ones, but they present the skeletons of larger super humans, so it fits the fluff.
4.) They don't look as bad as HE spearmen or bowmen or Silver Helmets, DE Warriors, or Skaven Night Runners, so join the queue
Lord Scythican wrote:
Mr Mystery wrote:Big winged thingy is defo a seperate kit from the Warsphinix. Left front leg is in a different position entirely.
There is still a good chance that they could be the same kit. Look at the differences between the Trygon and Mawloc. They were equally as different as the two sphinxes. The left front leg could easily be adjustable for a different position. The have the same body, legs, and tail. Even part of the chest area is the same.
Come on: Both Sphinxes obviously share the same body, the same legs (yes, plastic kits allow you to glue legs into different positions, okay, the front left one is an alternative leg), the same tail (with two alternative ends), only the front part and the howda are different. And my black box post already confirmed that both options are in there. Same with the snake variants, that share the same box cover in the advert but different descriptions for each unit.
Fugly art is fugly. Time to print out the old cover to tape over
Kroothawk wrote:
3.) Yes, old Khemri skeletons are taller than current VC ones, but they present the skeletons of larger super humans, so it fits the fluff.
4.) They don't look as bad as HE spearmen or bowmen or Silver Helmets, DE Warriors, or Skaven Night Runners, so join the queue [
Bow down to the super race of undead fantasy egyptians!
but well I suppose the 2nd point hits hard. Many armies never got too many updates (unless we're going to be looking forwards to a 2nd wave later)
Tomb King wrote:Is anyone else looking at this model and thinking Chaos dragon ogre repeat or even a dragon ogre shaggoth made Egyptian?
I don't think this is what you had in mind, but the lower half of that sphynix could make a killer Shaggoth conversion! Or better yet, Kholek
And you know, with all the folks wanting to build 1KSons dreads with the upper body (including MEEEEE!!!!) there will probably be quite a few of the lower-body bitz floating around soon.
Therion wrote:The War Sphinx variants are cool and all but is GW really not updating the basic Skeleton infantry? They look awful.
Everybody is claiming wave 2 for the things people actually need: skeletons, catapult, bone giant (ok maybe less the BG ). This is a great move for GeeDub: sell lots of the current boxes, at jacked up prices (by repackaging 10 to a box, or simply raising prices), to people who have been lured in by the shiny toys, and sell the new toys to old players drawn back to their TK / 8th edition (also those who never left? Do they exist?). Then in 1-2 years wave 2 hits, and they get another round of new players who held out due to the TK core line, as well as people scrapping their old troopers because the new core is jaw-droppingly better (IMO, the difference between old and new VC skellies).
Or you use VC skellies as minimum infantry core, then max out on the big and medium monster kits. My plan, assuming the rules make it remotely worthwhile
New Tomb Guard are rubbish in my opinion. I really like the look of the old ones, the only downsides were their cost due to being metal and their limited poses, they should have just made plastic copies. Oh well, just make believe that those Tomb Blades are Tomb Spears!
NAVARRO wrote:Totally cold on every new TK mini... big things look toyish.
Funny seeing as this is a game of toy soldiers.
But seriously, what's toyish about them? The detail looks great, and I think they are definitely interesting pieces. Or was that hate just to hate comment? I'm honestly curious. Obviously everyone's entitled to their opinion, but seeing as I'm familiar with your work as a sculptor I'd like to know what you think is so bad about them.
brettz123 wrote:I dont like the knights on the cobras but everything else is really awesome. Pretty cool release from GW.
Yeah, I'm less-than-thrilled with the cobras and cobra-riders, but that sphinx is dead sexy. If that can design something that cool for TK, imagine what kind of a Nagash model they could do these days!
Mantle wrote:+1 If the skeleton horses look as good as they do on that artwork Im afraid I might be buying some TK on release.
There shouldnt be any new horse models though
Unless GW are going to do something whacky like abolish horse cavalry entirely (e.g. snake riders instead), yes, the old horse models look desperately pathetic compared to the newer plastics and must surely be a high priority for replacement. A second release wave, perhaps?
I can't really fault the design aesthetic of these very much, since out of all the FB armies, the Tomb Kings have perhaps the best reasoning for being bedecked in absurd amounts of gold and decorations. I do think it's a bit sad that all the releases are focused either on elite units or giant monsters when their core elements are in desperate need of renewal.
Good lord, just took a look at those models, and hot damn, that Warsphinx. I don't play TK and I don't have an interest in starting them up, but that model is just beautiful. Wish I had an army I could convert it to use with or something.
Some other things like Plastic Giant and catapult have to wait for a second wave.
Mahu wrote:So in 40k news, Tzeentch and Thousand Sons Players got two alternate Deflier/Soul Grinder Models, and the perfect fiends and seeker counts as.
... and Greater Daemons and Dark Eldar Ssliths and lots of Necron stuff!
For those people that don't like the current skeletal horses (most people, I guess) Mantic Games do alternative Undead models. Perhaps they're more in line with VC than TK, but it's a base to work from. I'd imagine there will be a lot of extra TK pieces on the new sprues that will help with modifications.
Mantic has fleshy Zombie horses, not skeleton horses, so don't fit.
Sadly not even Reaper (Warlord Nefsokar fraction) nor Wargods of Aegyptus have good horses, but they have useful other alternative miniatures for Tomb Kings.
NAVARRO wrote:Totally cold on every new TK mini... big things look toyish.
Funny seeing as this is a game of toy soldiers.
But seriously, what's toyish about them? The detail looks great, and I think they are definitely interesting pieces. Or was that hate just to hate comment? I'm honestly curious. Obviously everyone's entitled to their opinion, but seeing as I'm familiar with your work as a sculptor I'd like to know what you think is so bad about them.
Let me start by just saying that a couple things...
-My comments have the exact same relevance as the anonymous poster who cant sculpt (wich is nothing )
-I don't do hate its not my style of living and surely not my way of posting... totally knocking at the wrong door there cadaver.
With that out of the way I will try o be more specific and its not going to be sugar coated... the reason WHY I haven't been more specific is because Im sensible to what people post and looking at the vast majority of posters loving these I didn't feel the need to pollute this thread and their enjoyment with these new minis...
1- Tomb Guard- This box set regiment is boring, all skellies look like that have no neck and heads stuck on torsos, these poses are way to similar even for rank&file, the music horn is ridiculous big the helms gives the illusion that the oversized GW head styles are even bigger... these are OK 10 years ago... today? Sorry they look dated and boring to paint and assemble... The only thing interesting is the vulture on the banner...
2- Necropolis Knights - The concept is as bad as it gets... tries to much to be original but its juts dumb... a skeletton that barely can walk is now a pro surfer on a giant snake with a mask... the cobra head the bones are kind of not that good and its neither a dead cobra neither a living one so it looks bad... the skellies themselves are nice detailed but the concept ruins everything.
3- Sepulcral stalkers - The best of these releases suffer from unbalanced bodies and the top mask is plain ridiculous, lets not even talk about the fan on the tails.
4- The lord looks like a downgrade from old lords and suffers from the same odd proportions of TG I specially dislike the bettle erection the ridiculous finger... this is not how a lord should look like IMO its a god rankandfile mini though. Pointing finger pose is also explored to the death by GW.
5- Warshpinx- The quality of this miniature is very dubious to me... looks like some skellies were atached to a souvenir toy... detailed you say? There is no muscle definition there to paint and they try to disguise it by nice painting of lines on the body... the pose looks like its taking a dump... the head looks like someone got into its bits box and randomly stuck stuff on a toysrus toy... sorry but detail quality is not measured by the amount of crap you stuck on a mini. The armour is either ridiculous or makes no sense... i mean axes on the back legs armour? If this fella lays down he will kill himself with those axes blades... The tail OMG looks like its from another TOY and stuck into it ... theres more to it but you get the general idea.
6- The other version of the same warsphinx kit...- Looks better I like the face and the hands arms... but man that huge body with no muscles, same problems of to much stuff stuck to it, odd tail... axes on low armor... good face ruinied by stucking incredible amounts of crap on the forehead...etc
In short man... you get the extreme dated static TG then the extreme dynamic surf skellies ... inferior lord... and one big kit that its just like a souvenir toy packed with non sense stuff on top... thats why Im cold... bad concepts... undetailed ( since I dont consider random stuff on top of a undefined body competent detailing). Also its not the size that makes these interesting by the contrary... the smaller and better designed the concept and sculpt is the more Im impressed.
If I had to define in one sentence my feelings I would say... poor execution on childish concepts.
If you dont know the difference of a toy and a wargame token for you to paint I feel a bit sorry for your perspective mate.
In that article they discuss points and things too, which is insightful. For example:
The bulk of the Tomb Kings army will be made of Skeleton Warriors and Archers. These more than make up for their Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill 2 by causing Fear, being Unbreakable and, due to the Lore of Nehekhara, easily replenishable during the game. They are also incredibly cheap, at base cost of only 4 points per Skeleton.
warpcrafter wrote:Those are the goofiest gak I've seen in a long time. I guess that WFB is the new Apocalypse.
Yeah I'd agree, and its for that reason I'm out.
Heh, well there where other factors, time being one, but after the orc and Goblin book I wanted to see where they where going, looking at the Sphinx and its probably Rare, Lord and whatever the Tomb Guard mounted counts as, Special? Like with the Giant Spider, its you'll 'NeedS it cus they're aweSuM' promo, which will translate on the average tabletop to at least two or three of the new big plastic kit.
I guess thats how it's going to be with every army, and I can't justify the larger scale, and in particular the cost that its going to take to keep up. In 40K I still feel I can ignore the biggest units if need be, Apocalypse is a stll a seperate game. So Warhammer is being dropped, I still have 40K, I'm still thinking about Infinity and other skirmish level games, I'll probably pick up a couple more Mordheim gangs if I'm honest.
Also those Cobra riders actually drove me to distraction, they are possibly one of the worst concept ideas I've ever seen GW come up with, the Yanu ti allikes are actually really nice, but seriously Skeletons standing on undead cobras. Can't stand them.
Mr Mystery wrote:Big winged thingy is defo a seperate kit from the Warsphinix. Left front leg is in a different position entirely.
There is still a good chance that they could be the same kit. Look at the differences between the Trygon and Mawloc. They were equally as different as the two sphinxes. The left front leg could easily be adjustable for a different position. The have the same body, legs, and tail. Even part of the chest area is the same.
Come on: Both Sphinxes obviously share the same body, the same legs (yes, plastic kits allow you to glue legs into different positions, okay, the front left one is an alternative leg), the same tail (with two alternative ends), only the front part and the howda are different. And my black box post already confirmed that both options are in there. Same with the snake variants, that share the same box cover in the advert but different descriptions for each unit.
Well turns out we were right huh? I am glad they are in the same kit. Now I am hoping the Necrosphinx torso is about the same size as the Soul Grinder's. If it is, these massive extra bitz will make a Thousand Suns Soul Grinder very possible. If someone has access to the blackbox, please try and post a comparison pic.
I had so hoped that the Tomb Guard wouldn't follow the White Lions, Phoenix Guard, etc. in their pricing. Sadly that dream was crushed as usual. I was also surprised (though not sure why) that the Snake Cav are the price of Bloodcrushers. That seriously reduces the number I would ever field. Why won't GW realize that in WFB things need to be cheaper to get people playing it more?? When you need 20-30 of 1 unit, making 10 guys $41.25 is just insane.
Eh, the Tomb Guard look boring and weird without necks (they'd be alright at 10 models for $25 or something but at that price point they should be amazing). The cobra riders are the stupidest things I've seen in a while; I would think a 12 year old would be too mature for that idea and think it was lame. The Sphinx is alright but it feels like they are trying to shoehorn a big plastic kit into every army now and it's really not that special.
a few more rules snippets here and there, some we've already gleaned but there's new stuff there IIRC.
4 points for a skellie eh ?
4 points sounds fair since they are worthless after the fear nerf. They are still pretty bad if there's no way to effectively give them leadership for the new movement abilities and steadfast probably still does nothing for them but at least it's something. I would probably just fill up the core with chariots units rather than bother with skeletons even at 4 points a pop and then get my ranked units from the special section but we'll see if they actually understand the problems with the undead armies once the book comes out. The fact that that page lists undead "unbreakable" as a bonus probably leads to "they don't."
Thunderfrog wrote:Are there any rumors at all about what these units do? Any inside info on the codex at all?
From the Getting Started Page, it does give a tidbit for the knights and howdah thing
Necropolis Knights stand upon the hoods of their stone Necroserpent mounts. These are tough Monstrous Cavalry units with 5 Attacks each, three of which are Poisoned Attacks and the remaining two have Killing Blow. What's more, as Monstrous Cavalry they can stomp, and have a 3+ save, should the enemy actually land a blow.
The Khemrian Warsphinx is a massive monster made of stone, jade, marble or any other rock-hard substance. When animated, it is a terrifying thing to face, its Toughness means all but the strongest attacks will struggle to wound the creature and its special Thundercrush attack can lay waste to even horde units in a single round of combat.
Of course as usual though, this is obviously over exaggerated in terms of actual gameplay. what ever sells eh gw?
Could we get a mod to put the new/additional pics on dakka for those of us viewing from work? %^&*$ Cybernannies!!!
I wonder...if the base cost of a skellie is 4 points, everything beyond a hand weapon must be an upgrade. I can't wait to see how much a bow (the only worthwhile kit, IMHO) costs. 2 points? I also want to know whether the unit size cap is lifted, so I can throw down a block of 60 bowmen as the tarpit that keeps on giving. You'll be damned if you do and damned if you don't. Get stuck in, and they stop shooting...but you'll take 4-5 phases to crumble them out! Even better if we get a steadfast equivalent that, say, cuts crumble in half if we outrank.... Lose by 12? take off 6 models. Make that 5 for the BSB's presence.
/edit/
One thing does disappoint me, though. I understand that the sphinx would have to be an undead construct, but I had this mental picture of a bipedal ogre-sized lion with a pharao's headdress swinging a crook and flail in a very dynamic raging combat pose. This bit about being on four legs with Indian weaponry (katars, really??) is more than a little "meh." I was thinking moderate strength, high number of high initiative and skill attacks, not the highest toughness, but a lot of wounds. Something like S6, T6, I7, WS7, 5A, and 5-6 wounds. This model looks more like S7, T8, I2, WS6, 3A, and 5-6 wounds. In other words, huge, super hard, and slow, when the fluff suggests big, hard, and fast.
4 points! That's cheaper than I was expecting. They were going to have to be cheap to take in any quantity. I'm guessing it's about right. Effectiveness of a goblin, with a couple boosts. A lot will swing on synergies with the rest of the army.
Speaking of which, I noticed the "My Will Be Done..." snippet says that the Tomb King grants his Weapon Skill of 6 to the unit he is fighting with.
Stalkers/Knights are Ogre sized cavalry units with seemingly enough bits leftover from building one or the other to where you can just buy a snake sprue from a bits vendor and build the other.
Speaking of which, I noticed the "My Will Be Done..." snippet says that the Tomb King grants his Weapon Skill of 6 to the unit he is fighting with.
It mentioned something about being on foot for that. Would be good to buff out a unit of Tomb Guard
Or core skellies...I wonder if princes do the same thing...I'd have to field one for each of my bowmen units. Getting hit on 4s instead of 3s would enhance their survival big time, and hitting more opponents back on 3s would reduce crumble, too (not going to suggest that they'd actually win combat, LOL)
On the other hand, if we keep IOtSE, TG hitting on 2s against most foes in the first round of combat would be beastly!
Oh, and nearly $20 a pop for stalkers is highway robbery. I may have to skip those for now, then buy them off of the bandwagon undead players for $5 each when they move on to the next army du jour! I'll happily pay $50 for a sphinx, though...I only need one of those.
JHall wrote:I had so hoped that the Tomb Guard wouldn't follow the White Lions, Phoenix Guard, etc. in their pricing. Sadly that dream was crushed as usual. I was also surprised (though not sure why) that the Snake Cav are the price of Bloodcrushers. That seriously reduces the number I would ever field. Why won't GW realize that in WFB things need to be cheaper to get people playing it more?? When you need 20-30 of 1 unit, making 10 guys $41.25 is just insane.
I'll second all of that. GW has been going this direction even on more basic troops lately, raising the price of basic Orc Warriors to $29 US. I was discussing this with another friend recently who worked for GW for 10 years and even he was saying that it seems like they are making it really hard to play Fantasy Battle. Just as the new rules encourage people to use larger units than ever the price of doing so has become prohibitive for many potential players. Of course, 40K prices are not immune to these marketing tactics, 20 Imperial Guardsmen now cost $49.50 US, but since 40K is more popular than Fantasy Battle in most markets GW has been having an easier time getting people to pay those prices even on horde armies like Imperial Guard.
I'll also point out that even the cost of the starter set, Island Of Blood, is not probably where it should be to lure in more players. I see many times more copies of Assault On Black Reach go out the door in a day at the game store than copies of Island Of Blood, so why is Island Of Blood, the starter set for the less popular of the two games, priced higher? If you want to lure people into getting hooked on your less popular game then the price needs to make it more tempting to try it.
Hmm....you're right, not much new there. I love the painting, and it looks like settra's still around.
If we get ranks of three, I could see a settra army actually working. Blocks of 3x3 chariots dropping 3D6 S5 impact hits and needing to lose, what 10 wounds before losing their first rank? Yum!
Of course, a Khalida list would be even nastier, if she stays, what with the points drop and all...I could see 200 poisoned bowmen at 2000 points...depending on configuration (say 5 blocks of 40?), that would potentially be 300 poisoned shots a turn. Even chaos warrior regiments would fall like wheat before the scythe!
Now we just need Friday to roll around so we can descend on the FLGSs like a plague of locusts (score cool points for relevant biblical reference) and devour the army book in the black box.
I see many times more copies of Assault On Black Reach go out the door in a day at the game store than copies of Island Of Blood, so why is Island Of Blood, the starter set for the less popular of the two games, priced higher?
While I see its value as a loss leader, I also see the economics behind it. It won't sell as well as AOBR at any price, so there's little incentive to sell it at a loss.
Sorry TK players, all your old models? Worthless. Expect to have to buy a crapton of new stuff to field a worthwhile force. Ushtabi? Probably crap now for 100 pts each. Scorpion? 300 points now. Bone Giant?
Bone Giant?
HAHAHA you're kidding right?
(seriously though, fantastic looking models and Robin Craddace can go die in a fire.)
LOL... kind of the same bitterness I have about C: DA versus C:UM? Only with a villain other than Craddace?
Anyway, playing against nids, I'm of the mind that in the current over-meched environment, those S8 LOS-free shots are the only thing making nids viable. I play against two nid players using my mech guard (9 chimeras, 2 hellhounds, 3 russes), and I regularly monkeystomp the one without hive guard, while the one that fields two units of three is actually pretty challenging, since I can't hide that AV10 side armor from his antitank shooting. I do see how he killed fexes, and trygons are just stupid, but I think hive guard were pretty much necessary.
Im still unsure about what I term the apocalpsation of Warhammer, everything just seems to be getting bigger, more epic and more outlandish.
Dont get me wrong, those Spinx models are amazing aesthetically but what happened to grunt units slugging it out whilst trying to out manouver each other? Now said grunts get stomped flat by giant spider, spinx, hellpit, stegadon *insert whatevers next*.
NAVARRO wrote:
5- Warshpinx- The quality of this miniature is very dubious to me... looks like some skellies were atached to a souvenir toy... detailed you say? There is no muscle definition there to paint and they try to disguise it by nice painting of lines on the body... the pose looks like its taking a dump... the head looks like someone got into its bits box and randomly stuck stuff on a toysrus toy... sorry but detail quality is not measured by the amount of crap you stuck on a mini. The armour is either ridiculous or makes no sense... i mean axes on the back legs armour? If this fella lays down he will kill himself with those axes blades... The tail OMG looks like its from another TOY and stuck into it ... theres more to it but you get the general idea.
6- The other version of the same warsphinx kit...- Looks better I like the face and the hands arms... but man that huge body with no muscles, same problems of to much stuff stuck to it, odd tail... axes on low armor... good face ruinied by stucking incredible amounts of crap on the forehead...etc
Sphinx has little "muscle definition" because it is not a creature, it is an animated statue. Of course they could have given it exaggarated muscle definition, but it would have looked silly and fitted poorly with the background. All the bling parts contrast nicely with relatively smooth "stony" body. I think it looks very nice.
march10k wrote:If we get ranks of three, I could see a settra army actually working. Blocks of 3x3 chariots dropping 3D6 S5 impact hits and needing to lose, what 10 wounds before losing their first rank? Yum!
Wouldn't they be S6 impact hits? They start at S4 and get a +1 bonus per rank, right?
I'm excited at the new possibilities of both this, and a skeletal archer army.
Ratius wrote:Im still unsure about what I term the apocalpsation of Warhammer, everything just seems to be getting bigger, more epic and more outlandish.
Dont get me wrong, those Spinx models are amazing aesthetically but what happened to grunt units slugging it out whilst trying to out manouver each other? Now said grunts get stomped flat by giant spider, spinx, hellpit, stegadon *insert whatevers next*.
While monsters can and do make your opponent sweat, an unsupported monster is really not a "Win-all" unit. With 0 rank bonus, you tend to already be down a couple CR points just based on opponent's ranks and possibly standard. Sure, they can dish out a decent amount of damage, but they can still get run down and killed just like any other unit.
I am a bit concerned about the Sphinx's ability to "crush entire Hordes flat" though, that I will grant you. If it's anything beyond a basic Thunderstomp, I'm going to start wondering why other monsters don't have it. I mean, the Sphinx is about the size of a Stegadon it seems...
Ratius wrote:Im still unsure about what I term the apocalpsation of Warhammer, everything just seems to be getting bigger, more epic and more outlandish.
Dont get me wrong, those Spinx models are amazing aesthetically but what happened to grunt units slugging it out whilst trying to out manouver each other? Now said grunts get stomped flat by giant spider, spinx, hellpit, stegadon *insert whatevers next*.
While monsters can and do make your opponent sweat, an unsupported monster is really not a "Win-all" unit. With 0 rank bonus, you tend to already be down a couple CR points just based on opponent's ranks and possibly standard. Sure, they can dish out a decent amount of damage, but they can still get run down and killed just like any other unit.
I am a bit concerned about the Sphinx's ability to "crush entire Hordes flat" though, that I will grant you. If it's anything beyond a basic Thunderstomp, I'm going to start wondering why other monsters don't have it. I mean, the Sphinx is about the size of a Stegadon it seems...
doesn't sound normal xD its special "Thundercrush" attack can lay waste to even horde units in a single round of combat.
march10k wrote:If we get ranks of three, I could see a settra army actually working. Blocks of 3x3 chariots dropping 3D6 S5 impact hits and needing to lose, what 10 wounds before losing their first rank? Yum!
Wouldn't they be S6 impact hits? They start at S4 and get a +1 bonus per rank, right?
I'm excited at the new possibilities of both this, and a skeletal archer army.
Yes...of course. 10 S6 hits would take a rank off of even a horde, bringing back the viability of a flank charge...yum! For that matter, a ranked unit of chariots could potentially take down a hydra on the charge, in spite of the regen.
NAVARRO wrote:
5- Warshpinx- The quality of this miniature is very dubious to me... looks like some skellies were atached to a souvenir toy... detailed you say? There is no muscle definition there to paint and they try to disguise it by nice painting of lines on the body... the pose looks like its taking a dump... the head looks like someone got into its bits box and randomly stuck stuff on a toysrus toy... sorry but detail quality is not measured by the amount of crap you stuck on a mini. The armour is either ridiculous or makes no sense... i mean axes on the back legs armour? If this fella lays down he will kill himself with those axes blades... The tail OMG looks like its from another TOY and stuck into it ... theres more to it but you get the general idea.
6- The other version of the same warsphinx kit...- Looks better I like the face and the hands arms... but man that huge body with no muscles, same problems of to much stuff stuck to it, odd tail... axes on low armor... good face ruinied by stucking incredible amounts of crap on the forehead...etc
Sphinx has little "muscle definition" because it is not a creature, it is an animated statue. Of course they could have given it exaggarated muscle definition, but it would have looked silly and fitted poorly with the background. All the bling parts contrast nicely with relatively smooth "stony" body. I think it looks very nice.
The approach they gave to the feet is not the same treatment they gave body and if its stone at least they could make it a more interesting subject and give it some sandstone texture and cracks something please because such HUGE flat surface is only common on souvenir gifts and not enjoyable to paint.
I'm interested in the points for those tomb guard. Throw in a tomb king with his 'my will be done' and equip them with halberds. Then we will have WS 6, Str 5, T 4, and (I'm guessing) a 5+ armor save. That is one hell of a unit! It may even be worth 10 or 12 points per model once fear and unbreakable are taken into account. If some of the rumors are true, (9 point per model) these guys will be something to be feared. Against most things it will hit on threes and wound on threes or even twos against weaker units. I also want to see the unit sizes for them. Right now, the 25 max rule makes them almost useless.
I'm not sure that I like models, particularly the head dress. It looks a bit more South American than Egyptian if you ask me. I'm also not digging the whole golden burial mask thing with the unit champ. The shields, as well as the shafts of the halberds are cool.
Ratius wrote:Im still unsure about what I term the apocalpsation of Warhammer, everything just seems to be getting bigger, more epic and more outlandish.
Dont get me wrong, those Spinx models are amazing aesthetically but what happened to grunt units slugging it out whilst trying to out manouver each other? Now said grunts get stomped flat by giant spider, spinx, hellpit, stegadon *insert whatevers next*.
While monsters can and do make your opponent sweat, an unsupported monster is really not a "Win-all" unit. With 0 rank bonus, you tend to already be down a couple CR points just based on opponent's ranks and possibly standard. Sure, they can dish out a decent amount of damage, but they can still get run down and killed just like any other unit.
I am a bit concerned about the Sphinx's ability to "crush entire Hordes flat" though, that I will grant you. If it's anything beyond a basic Thunderstomp, I'm going to start wondering why other monsters don't have it. I mean, the Sphinx is about the size of a Stegadon it seems...
doesn't sound normal xD its special "Thundercrush" attack can lay waste to even horde units in a single round of combat.
I don't they'll get too complicated with it. It'll just be another level, so:
55 dollars for 3 stupid looking knights? Ill pass!
I am not seeing the scorpion in any of the pictures. It seems they may be taken out. Havent seen any catapults either but heard they are coming in the next wave?
The necrosphinx can fly and has heroic killing blow. Why send that a regular unit. Pick enemy power house and unleash!
Tomb King wrote:55 dollars for 3 stupid looking knights? Ill pass!
I am not seeing the scorpion in any of the pictures. It seems they may be taken out. Havent seen any catapults either but heard they are coming in the next wave?
Don't put too much stock in what you see on here price-wise, yet. I saw somebody report them at 43eur on here earlier, which is about £38. When the prices came out on the website they're actually £33.50, so still pricey, but the estimates were about 10% over. Take off a further 15% or so you can knock off if you shop around online, it's not SO bad... kind of.
55 dollars for 3 stupid looking knights? Ill pass!
Don't put too much stock in what you see on here price-wise...
The person posting about the $55 price is in the US and the prices have been posted by GW for hours here already. The price is $54.50, $55 rounding up. In other words, he was discussing the actual price, not some rumor. People will definitely be looking at online discounters, eBay, trading, etc., especially if they want more than one set of those.
31 pounds is cheaper than the Arachnarok at least, but 25.50 for a unit of 10? Seriously? They only way that that can be justified is if they have a HEEP of stuff to add to your warriors. As for the snakes, the models look stunning, as do sphinx and tomb guard, but 33.50 is alright if you can make two different units out of the box. Still, I'm not entirely certain how GW price their stuff. Is it weight? Manufacturing costs? Unit value?I hope it's not weight because the necroknights definitely don't look like 30 plus pounds of plastic. At least there seems to be enough stuff to customize new units, maybe heads, weps and other stuff from Tomb Guard for core units, that Lich Priest form the Sphinx will be my HQ lich on foot. Replace the skull necrosphinx head on the Bone Giant, hopefully scavenge plenty from the necroknights, maybe arms and heads for ushabti. They added a Settra on foot, and seem to have taken away the Tomb King with great weapon. I'm not buying stuff up for the inevitable price rise until they reveal the next set of new stuff, hoping for new catapult and core, as well as a new Special Character.
NAVARRO wrote:The approach they gave to the feet is not the same treatment they gave body and if its stone at least they could make it a more interesting subject and give it some sandstone texture and cracks something please because such HUGE flat surface is only common on souvenir gifts and not enjoyable to paint.
It is supposed to be carved from obsidian, I'd reckon.
55 dollars for 3 stupid looking knights? Ill pass!
Don't put too much stock in what you see on here price-wise...
The person posting about the $55 price is in the US and the prices have been posted by GW for hours here already. The price is $54.50, $55 rounding up. In other words, he was discussing the actual price, not some rumor. People will definitely be looking at online discounters, eBay, trading, etc., especially if they want more than one set of those.
Ahh right, whoops. Just ran that through a currency converter and that's the exact same amount we're paying here in the UK, then. Maybe I'm just desensitised to the high prices now, but there are a lot of places you can discount the shelf price as mentioned.
Still, I'm not entirely certain how GW price their stuff. Is it weight? Manufacturing costs? Unit value?
Obviously, the overhead cost of design and production is factored into every price, but so is the unit value. It's why some blisters with a single small model cost more than a blister containing three large models. Unit in-game value is an enormous part of the secret "goblin index" used to determine pricing.
Ratius wrote:Im still unsure about what I term the apocalpsation of Warhammer, everything just seems to be getting bigger, more epic and more outlandish.
Dont get me wrong, those Spinx models are amazing aesthetically but what happened to grunt units slugging it out whilst trying to out manouver each other? Now said grunts get stomped flat by giant spider, spinx, hellpit, stegadon *insert whatevers next*.
While monsters can and do make your opponent sweat, an unsupported monster is really not a "Win-all" unit. With 0 rank bonus, you tend to already be down a couple CR points just based on opponent's ranks and possibly standard. Sure, they can dish out a decent amount of damage, but they can still get run down and killed just like any other unit.
I am a bit concerned about the Sphinx's ability to "crush entire Hordes flat" though, that I will grant you. If it's anything beyond a basic Thunderstomp, I'm going to start wondering why other monsters don't have it. I mean, the Sphinx is about the size of a Stegadon it seems...
doesn't sound normal xD its special "Thundercrush" attack can lay waste to even horde units in a single round of combat.
I don't they'll get too complicated with it. It'll just be another level, so:
"his picture is both spectacular and terrifying. If the small things in the middle of the picture are Warsphinxes, what in the name of Settra are the huge things on either side?"
im thinking new tomb giants!
also looks like they will have interchangeable heads like the Egyptian gods
Ra-bird
jackal - Anubis
Snake (can't remember names)
Still, I'm not entirely certain how GW price their stuff. Is it weight? Manufacturing costs? Unit value?
Obviously, the overhead cost of design and production is factored into every price, but so is the unit value. It's why some blisters with a single small model cost more than a blister containing three large models. Unit in-game value is an enormous part of the secret "goblin index" used to determine pricing.
I'd prefer, that blisters were more expensive than they are, but plastics like Tomb Guard were cheaper. You only have to pay to have maybe 3 or 4 Lords and Heroes so make the Tomb King 13.50 and the Tomb Guard 22. Obviously taking only 3 from what will be a popular box and adding 5 to a TK wont justify it as they will inevitable make a loss but it would be a tactic I'd welcome.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alphacerberus wrote:On GW website Whats new today theres a picture of the army book
"his picture is both spectacular and terrifying. If the small things in the middle of the picture are Warsphinxes, what in the name of Settra are the huge things on either side?"
im thinking new tomb giants!
also looks like they will have interchangeable heads like the Egyptian gods Ra-bird jackal - Anubis Snake (can't remember names)
Tomb Guards are more or less on par with the other elite units of other armies. Granted it's overpriced compared to the Grave Guard, but let's see how many sprues we get from it before rendering judgement. At least it's not as bad as Terminators.
Personally I'm in love with the two new constructs. What choice status is the Stalkers?
Even the bestest photoshoper in the grim darkness of the far future will have trouble making that more readable.. blowing up images just makes em all pixely and/or blurrey
Animated Construct, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Nehekharan Undead
Transmogrifying Gaze
Range 8" S1
A Transmogrifying Gaze is a magical attack, and does not require a roll To Hit. Instead, when the unit shoots roll and artillery dice for each Sepulchral Stalker in the unit and add the results together. The target suffers a number of automatic hits equal to the result. When rolling To Wound with these hits (S1), substitute the target's Toughness with its Initiative value. If the target has several Initiative values, always use the highest. Targets with no Initiative value are immune to this attack. No armour saves are allowed against a Transmogrifying Gaze. Finally, for each Misfire result rolled, the Sepulchral Stalkers suffer D3 automatic Wounds with no armour saves allowed, as they catch glimpses of their own reflection in their foe's sword blades or polished shields.
Stone Hides: Necropolis Knights have a total armour save of 3+. Theis takes into account the combined effects of the mount's Animated Construct special rule, and the rider's armour and high vantage point.
Necros wrote:Even the bestest photoshoper in the grim darkness of the far future will have trouble making that more readable.. blowing up images just makes em all pixely and/or blurrey
Yeah I'm squinting like a bastard trying to make out the special rules for the stalker attack, hahah.
To add to Steamdragon's post; looks like its a range 8", S1 attack. Sorry Lizards and Dwarves!
The Knights look cute (2 WS4 KB attacks, 3 WS3 Poison Attacks, 3+ armor all around), though going Knight or Stalker heavy will be greatly helped by having the Lore of Light around for WS10 shenanigans.
Updated my previous post with all the info from those pages.
Edit: since we're on a new page...
Spoiler:
Stalker:
Monstrous Beast
M7 WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W3 I3 A2 Ld8
Animated Construct, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Nehekharan Undead
Transmogrifying Gaze
Range 8" S1
A Transmogrifying Gaze is a magical attack, and does not require a roll To Hit. Instead, when the unit shoots roll and artillery dice for each Sepulchral Stalker in the unit and add the results together. The target suffers a number of automatic hits equal to the result. When rolling To Wound with these hits (S1), substitute the target's Toughness with its Initiative value. If the target has several Initiative values, always use the highest. Targets with no Initiative value are immune to this attack. No armour saves are allowed against a Transmogrifying Gaze. Finally, for each Misfire result rolled, the Sepulchral Stalkers suffer D3 automatic Wounds with no armour saves allowed, as they catch glimpses of their own reflection in their foe's sword blades or polished shields.
Stone Hides: Necropolis Knights have a total armour save of 3+. Theis takes into account the combined effects of the mount's Animated Construct special rule, and the rider's armour and high vantage point.
That's more than a little "meh." 99% of enemy units (I3 or better, and it almost certainly goes off of the statline I value, so no wounding great weapons on 4+) would be wounded only on 6s...I guess it has value against greatswords and such, due to the disallowance of armor saves? But, seriously, needing 6s to wound, you're not getting more than 2 wounds per stalker, and that at a significant chance of crumping yourself instead? I only see this being useful against monsters. 3-5 artillery dice worth of "need a 6 to wound" could put some pain on a bloodthirster, for example, but against virtually anything else in the game, you're better off charging!
And is it really "transmogrifying," not "transfixing?" Transmogrification is a total ripoff of "Calvin and Hobbes"
And is it really "transmogrifying," not "transfixing?" Transmogrification is a total ripoff of "Calvin and Hobbes"
Only if Calvin and Hobbes also originates from the 1600s.
trans·mog·ri·fy /trænsˈmɒgrəˌfaɪ, trænz-/ [trans-mog-ruh-fahy, tranz-] –verb (used with object), -fied, -fy·ing. to change in appearance or form, especially strangely or grotesquely; transform.
Origin: 1650–60; earlier also transmigrify, transmography; apparently a pseudo-Latinism with trans-, -ify
Yeah that attack is seriously meh, their stat line is not impressive in the least either. They would have to be extremely cheap to ever be worthwhile or if you knew for 100% that you'd be playing Dwarves or Lizardmen.
The Necropolis Knights look like they might be decent, will totally depend on their points value.
And is it just me or is the only item that seems reasonably priced the Sphinx kit? Everything else seems insanely over priced, hell even the army book but I guess it is probably hard cover.
That's more than a little "meh." 99% of enemy units (I3 or better, and it almost certainly goes off of the statline I value, so no wounding great weapons on 4+) would be wounded only on 6s...I guess it has value against greatswords and such, due to the disallowance of armor saves? But, seriously, needing 6s to wound, you're not getting more than 2 wounds per stalker, and that at a significant chance of crumping yourself instead? I only see this being useful against monsters. 3-5 artillery dice worth of "need a 6 to wound" could put some pain on a bloodthirster, for example, but against virtually anything else in the game, you're better off charging!
And is it really "transmogrifying," not "transfixing?" Transmogrification is a total ripoff of "Calvin and Hobbes"
I dunno about that. The Stalkers themselves aren't really fantastic in CC (although I guess they do get Stomp as MBs...) Sure, you have a ~16% chance per Stalker to do D3 wounds to your unit, but enh. There are a variety of low I targets to use it on, like Trolls, Dragon/Ogres, almost anything Orcs n Goblins, Hellcannons, etc. etc.
Sure, against Elves you're not pretty much done, but Dwarves?
I just hope they don't get a TK version of Miasma!
And as it's turning them to stone/sand (hence why they take damage if they "see themselves reflected") then it would be Transmogrifying, not Transfixing (which is about more along the lines of hypnosis.)
That big cool thing in the pic may be the Colossus on the Bone Giant description...
It sounds like, if you read the bone giant page in the rare section, there is another new rare choice for the army.
here is the text:
"The Bone Giant is a great model to represent a Tomb Kings Necrolith Colossus."
Now whether that is just an upgrade to a giant OR something totally new, I can see Forgeworld making one of those with the next book; the TK vs Bret one
The Bone Giant/Colossus thing on the left appears to stand a lot more to the front than the Sphinxes, so it's size may be a bit misleading in that picture. It will probably be higher, but not that much bigger than the Sphinxes if we ever get a miniature for it.
Aye, but Calvin and Hobbes comics are the only place the term's been used in hundreds of years. I'd lay a dollar against your pastry of choice that the author's more familar with comic books than he is with 17th century English!
streamdragon wrote:
And as it's turning them to stone/sand (hence why they take damage if they "see themselves reflected") then it would be Transmogrifying, not Transfixing (which is about more along the lines of hypnosis.)
Hmm...I see what you mean, but I was thinking in terms of that one woman in the bible looking back at the city she'd been commanded to abandon and being turned to a pillar of salt...and transfixion to me just means to be rooted/pinned to the spot...which would certainly fit here.
Anyway, I think the gaze attack is best used against single models, where piling up several artillery dice in hits that wound on 6s has merit. Against a ranked unit, even a low-I one, I just don't see it doing anything dramatic...just too many wounds on the unit for the gaze to have an impact.
Ah, I assumed that since there's a dude on its head casting some sort of lightning that it was simply a Liche Priest riding on a Warsphinx (which is apparently one of their mount options). It seemed that perspective is what made it look bigger than the other one.
What's going on with the winged creatures on the right side of that pic? It looks like a High Elf Griffon getting ready to fix a flock of something. Any ideas?
Sageheart wrote:I was amazed at how expensive the tomb guard were, 41 dollars is quite a bit for 10 guys.
Weren't the older ones more expensive (by a fair margin) for 10 of them?
Is this sentiment because the new ones are plastic? Or am I mis-remembering?
Whether anyone is mis-remembering or not, it is irrelevant how much the old metal ones cost.
What matters is how the price tag compares to the content of the kit, and clearly this one is overpriced compared to the content of other similar plastic kits just like the Greatswords & Bestigor are overpriced.
It would be like GW producing a new $75 plastic kit for five VC Blood Knights, and someone saying "hey but the metal ones cost $90!". That would be quite rediculous now wouldn't it.
TBD wrote:It would be like GW producing a new $75 plastic kit for five VC Blood Knights, and someone saying "hey but the metal ones cost $90!". That would be quite rediculous now wouldn't it.
Oh I don't know - everything is relative. I think that would be good.
TBD wrote:It would be like GW producing a new $75 plastic kit for five VC Blood Knights, and someone saying "hey but the metal ones cost $90!". That would be quite rediculous now wouldn't it.
Yes. But they'd still sell. It's the same thing with all armies. Stuff that works well costs a lot. Look at IG. Hellhounds, in spite of being chimeras with one sprue swopped out, cost six arms and three legs. Each. Because you'll buy them if you want to compete. What's a 45 point sentinel cost? The better part of a dollar a point! Same reason.... In-game utility is a VERY big part of how GW prices models. No use crying over it.
TBD wrote:What matters is how the price tag compares to the content of the kit, and clearly this one is overpriced compared to the content of other similar plastic kits just like the Greatswords & Bestigor are overpriced.
It would be like GW producing a new $75 plastic kit for five VC Blood Knights, and someone saying "hey but the metal ones cost $90!". That would be quite rediculous now wouldn't it.
If you say so. . . .But I daresay if they released plastic Tyranid Hive Guard @$50 for three of them they would be snapped up and not whined about.
If there are more options and more models for less money, I do not see that as a bad thing.
Since GW wrote the note asking what that big thing is, I don't think it's a sphinx. THey state in their own words, the sphinx is in the middle, sowhat is that thing on the side.
Yes, there is a caster on it's head, so whatever it is..it's big enough to be a stable platform and tower over the rest of the army.
My guess - the colossus, so a Warhammer Forge release. Notice, it's also holding a giant blade similar to what Ushabti hold...
TBD wrote:It would be like GW producing a new $75 plastic kit for five VC Blood Knights, and someone saying "hey but the metal ones cost $90!". That would be quite rediculous now wouldn't it.
Oh I don't know - everything is relative. I think that would be good.
Ah yes, that one again. By that logic anything goes when it is convenient doesn't it.
Maybe next year GW will require customers to let the local Redshirt take them up the arse 3 times in addition to the price of the kit. Some people would still think it's a good deal while others wouldn't. After all everything is relative.
Lord Scythican wrote:What's going on with the winged creatures on the right side of that pic? It looks like a High Elf Griffon getting ready to fix a flock of something. Any ideas?
If you look closelt, and below - it's actually bretonnians fighting the tk, not high elves.
It's probably carrion attacking the poor pegasus knight.
TBD wrote:It would be like GW producing a new $75 plastic kit for five VC Blood Knights, and someone saying "hey but the metal ones cost $90!". That would be quite rediculous now wouldn't it.
Oh I don't know - everything is relative. I think that would be good.
Ah yes, that one again. By that logic anything goes when it is convenient doesn't it.
Maybe next year GW will require customers to let the local Redshirt take them up the arse 3 times in addition to the price of the kit. Some people would still think it's a good deal while others wouldn't. After all everything is relative.
I dare say some people would take that, although they'd be in the minority.
It's simple though:
Is $90 cheap for five knights? No.
Is $75 cheap for a plastic kit of five knights? No, but it's cheap relative to the only alternative, so it's relatively cheap.
Lord Scythican wrote:What's going on with the winged creatures on the right side of that pic? It looks like a High Elf Griffon getting ready to fix a flock of something. Any ideas?
If you look closelt, and below - it's actually bretonnians fighting the tk, not high elves.
It's probably carrion attacking the poor pegasus knight.
GO FOR HIS EYES, GO FOR HIS EYES!
Ok thanks! How big are the carrions? I wonder if I could convert some Island of Blood griffons into some, (or at least that awesome flaming chariot conversion I saw the other day!)
Lord Scythican wrote:Ok the big thing on the left is one of those sphinxes. It is called Perspective people. He is the same size as the other two.
No, I don't think so. The article on the GW website says "If the small things in the middle of the picture are Warsphinxes, what in the name of Settra are the huge things on either side?" which to me is a hint that the things on the side are something bigger and different then the Warshpinxes. Plus, the one in the forefront appears to be similar to the one in the background, which is huge compared to the stuff in the middle. So, by way of Perspective, if it's further away and still much larger, it must be significantly bigger then the Warsphinxes. Right?
Lord Scythican wrote:Ok the big thing on the left is one of those sphinxes. It is called Perspective people. He is the same size as the other two.
No, I don't think so. The article on the GW website says "If the small things in the middle of the picture are Warsphinxes, what in the name of Settra are the huge things on either side?" which to me is a hint that the things on the side are something bigger and different then the Warshpinxes. Plus, the one in the forefront appears to be similar to the one in the background, which is huge compared to the stuff in the middle. So, by way of Perspective, if it's further away and still much larger, it must be significantly bigger then the Warsphinxes. Right?
Maybe I am looking at the wrong thing. These are the two that I am saying is the same thing:
I'd put (but I'm not going to before anyone suggests) money on it being a bone giant. It looks to be standing upright (particularly it's closest hand) and appears to be postured and modelled differently to the Sphinxes. Along with the GW sneaky sneaky preview talk...
I reckon it's a Bone Giant and that the kit would look like a cross between the Sphinxes and existing model, as GW seem to be (understandably) keeping to the Egyptian theme more with this release.
Lord Scythican wrote:Ok the big thing on the left is one of those sphinxes. It is called Perspective people. He is the same size as the other two.
No, I don't think so. The article on the GW website says "If the small things in the middle of the picture are Warsphinxes, what in the name of Settra are the huge things on either side?" which to me is a hint that the things on the side are something bigger and different then the Warshpinxes. Plus, the one in the forefront appears to be similar to the one in the background, which is huge compared to the stuff in the middle. So, by way of Perspective, if it's further away and still much larger, it must be significantly bigger then the Warsphinxes. Right?
Maybe I am looking at the wrong thing. These are the two that I am saying is the same thing:
I think you're correct, and that the third tall object in the picture is something different - perhaps a colossus as people suggested.
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Tomb King wrote:
Tantras wrote:Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, some rules! Can somebody with some decent software handy zoom and tidy this image please?
I have a big monitor so I just read it. Pretty cool. Got the sphinx by chance?
Afraid not; this was just a direct steal from the GW site.
Lord Scythican wrote:Ok the big thing on the left is one of those sphinxes. It is called Perspective people. He is the same size as the other two.
No, I don't think so. The article on the GW website says "If the small things in the middle of the picture are Warsphinxes, what in the name of Settra are the huge things on either side?" which to me is a hint that the things on the side are something bigger and different then the Warshpinxes. Plus, the one in the forefront appears to be similar to the one in the background, which is huge compared to the stuff in the middle. So, by way of Perspective, if it's further away and still much larger, it must be significantly bigger then the Warsphinxes. Right?
Maybe I am looking at the wrong thing. These are the two that I am saying is the same thing:
Its an Ushabiti (sp?). That two handed blade is very distinctive.
Agamemnon2 wrote:I can't really fault the design aesthetic of these very much, since out of all the FB armies, the Tomb Kings have perhaps the best reasoning for being bedecked in absurd amounts of gold and decorations. I do think it's a bit sad that all the releases are focused either on elite units or giant monsters when their core elements are in desperate need of renewal.
And where are all the special characters? :-P
To be fair, I wouldn't mind ornamentation...
If it weren't the "Funny hat skulls everywhere" ornamentation that every single other army has, with the only difference being where the skulls are stuffed and what shape the funny hats have. I mean, would it kill them to do some sun-related stuff for the TKings? Or something from any of the other pantheon members from the Time of Legends books? I just know people are going to whinge at me if I say "It's not what they use to be," going "Well fluff changes!", but, er... wasn't that the entire point of "Time of Legends", ala Horus Heresy, to set down just what happened and to change some fluff points / set new things down?
NAVARRO wrote:1- Tomb Guard- This box set regiment is boring, all skellies look like that have no neck and heads stuck on torsos, these poses are way to similar even for rank&file, the music horn is ridiculous big the helms gives the illusion that the oversized GW head styles are even bigger... these are OK 10 years ago... today? Sorry they look dated and boring to paint and assemble... The only thing interesting is the vulture on the banner...
New problem I just noticed about TGuard: They really are nothing more than Funny Hats. Those helmets wouldn't even cover a significant chunk of the head.
"Helmets" and shields are the only two things that put me off, really, with Helmets more than shields (since the skull could be explained as them being a post-Nagash TK bunch). Odd how such small things (Incubi using Klaives instead of Halberds, Tomb Guard helmets) seem to bother me more than "big" things.
NAVARRO wrote:2- Necropolis Knights - The concept is as bad as it gets... tries to much to be original but its juts dumb... a skeletton that barely can walk is now a pro surfer on a giant snake with a mask... the cobra head the bones are kind of not that good and its neither a dead cobra neither a living one so it looks bad... the skellies themselves are nice detailed but the concept ruins everything.
Concept is what killed it for me too. Tomb Kings aren't an army of undead beings made together by angry Tomb Kings, which seems to be the new fluff. They were a raised army of the dead that was still kept together and disciplined.
When I heard "Tomb Kings are an army of Constructs", I thought they meant something like the first Time of Legends book on Nagash. Ushabti, Sphynx's, Tomb Scorpions, Bone Giants, stuff like that. Stuff they were already confirmed to have, and would make sense with what we'd seen. Not... Snake-Riding Skeleton Warriors. Bedecked in skulls and bling. It just leaves a poor taste in my mouth.
CadianXV wrote:Fair point, and not something I'd considered.
There also appears to be a Lich Priest riding the top of its head to give an idea of scale.
Exactly. So if you take the three Sphinxes from left to right, you can also get a good size idea for the bone giant looking thing. That thing would be at the very least, 18 inches tall. More than likely it is scenery, like something sculpted from rock, (think pyramids, etc.)
kirsanth wrote:If there are more options and more models for less money, I do not see that as a bad thing.
That is exactly the attitude GW is hoping for. They try to grab a little more every time and every time enough people apparently bend over for them. The thing is that their pricing is just too damn inconsistent and random.
Just sticking with Fantasy, they give us plastic Savage Orcs for 10 euros less (because they are core and not a special choice?) a little over a month ago, and now this.
Plastic Temple Guard & Black Orcs & Grave Guard are special choices also and they are cheaper. Chaos Knights get a ton of parts & way more plastic in the box, and they are only 19,50 (I consider this one of the best money/value kits out there). Ten Flagellants are 22,50 and a rare choice. Etc.
These Tomb Guard are nice but thin models. No way they can justify these guys to be more expensive than all of the above-mentionted items.
This is the same conversation that has already been held so often though. It's useless because seemingly it's unlikely a large enough portion of GW's customers will ever get enough backbone to draw the line, but it sure as hell deserves it to be said when they (GW) pull another fast one on us.
It's definitly not an Ushabti, you can see one on the far right. As for the thing in the distance it's quite likely a scenery piece, with the other thing a Necrolith Colossus. I dope it's not the new Bone Giant as it seems far too animal like. I thought that the lore puts the bone giant as, well, a big skeleton man. Hoping it and the Ushabti get decent re-sculpts and plastic sets, along with an ace new core and that huge flaming bird mount that was rumored for the Lich Priest. Definitely some decent scope for conversion, and a lot of stuff to make core skellies more exciting.
Tantras wrote:I dare say some people would take that, although they'd be in the minority.
Maybe they'd create a whole new market for themselves though. Who knows how profitable it would be
How good do these guys (Tomb Guard) perform on the battlefield btw?
A box of 40KTH/SS Terminators is overpriced as well compared to what you get in the box, but at least they are rock solid on the table. The Greatswords I once got (at 40% off) for my Empire warband haven't really been as good in the field as their $ cost would/should indicate.
TBD wrote:It's useless because seemingly it's unlikely a large enough portion of GW's customers will ever get enough backbone to draw the line, but it sure as hell deserves it to be said when they (GW) pull another fast one on us.
So my spending less money on more models shows a lack of backbone?
I would think that spending more money on less models shows a lack of financial savvy, but I must be missing something.
Feel free to buy the medal models instead just to show off your, uh, backbone.
kirsanth wrote:If there are more options and more models for less money, I do not see that as a bad thing.
That is exactly the attitude GW is hoping for. They try to grab a little more every time and every time enough people apparently bend over for them. The thing is that their pricing is just too damn inconsistent and random.
Just sticking with Fantasy, they give us plastic Savage Orcs for 10 euros less (because they are core and not a special choice?) a little over a month ago, and now this. Plastic Temple Guard & Black Orcs & Grave Guard are special choices also and they are cheaper. Chaos Knights get a ton of parts & way more plastic in the box, and they are only 19,50 (I consider this one of the best money/value kits out there). Ten Flagellants are 22,50 and a rare choice. Etc.
These Tomb Guard are nice but thin models. No way they can justify these guys to be more expensive than all of the above-mentionted items.
This is the same conversation that has already been held so often though. It's useless because seemingly it's unlikely a large enough portion of GW's customers will ever get enough backbone to draw the line, but it sure as hell deserves it to be said when they (GW) pull another fast one on us.
Very fair point, there is a lot of inconsistency. Stromvermin and clanrats, both core for the same army, with the same amount of models in each box, and whilst the Stormvermin are bigger, does that justify a 10 pound price increase? The Souls casket, 30 quid? and what is it? One model on a stand. It's made of metal sure, but why is so expensive? And BloodKnights! Great model for sure, but each one isn't that much bigger than your Chaos Knight, there cost justification? They're made of metal. Why the hell are they made of metal? they are so similar to Chaos Knights it's just irritating looking at the price. You could buy a battalion for that amount of money, just go and buy a whole army rather than 5 metals in a box.
Didn't notice this posted yet, but the What's New section has a 360 of the Warsphinx and also mentions that,
"These two colossal creatures are both phenomenally powerful and almost completely indestructible: there aren't many creatures out there that have a toughness of 8 (yes, you read that correctly - 8). "
Pretty beefy. Depending on the armor save it'll be pretty durable. Low armor save=bait for massed itty-bitty attacks (or poison).
kirsanth wrote:So my spending less money on more models shows a lack of backbone?
I would think that spending more money on less models shows a lack of financial savvy, but I must be missing something.
Feel free to buy the medal models instead just to show off your, uh, backbone.
Cheers.
I am not talking about buying the metal models or whether or not they are worth their price. The metal models are not involved in this conversation.
Every customer, no matter whatever you are buying, should demand to get the best value for his/her money's worth. That is what this is all about.
If GW can produce for you a plastic kit like the new Savage Orcs for 22,75 euros, then they can & should charge you the exact same price for a comparable kit of ten Tomb Guard fellas who undoubtedly have about the exact same number of extra options on their sprues.
But they don't. Instead they charge you 10 euros more for it. Because they feel like it and they know the sheeple will pay it anyway.
In other words: you are not getting the best value for your money.
What exactly about that do you not understand?
I am not calling you out this specifically, but I find this way of thinking that is being displayed by such a large % of the people in the hobby in general very disturbing. It is exactly why GW is still getting away with their pricing shenanigans.
TBD wrote: I am not talking about buying the metal models or whether or not they are worth their price. The metal models are not involved in this conversation.
Every customer, no matter whatever you are buying, should demand to get the best value for his/her money's worth. That is what this is all about.
If GW can produce for you a plastic kit like the new Savage Orcs for 22,75 euros, then they can & should charge you the exact same price for a comparable kit of ten Tomb Guard fellas who undoubtedly have about the exact same number of extra options on their sprues.
But they don't. Instead they charge you 10 euros more for it. Because they feel like it and they know the sheeple will pay it anyway.
In other words: you are not getting the best value for your money.
What exactly about that do you not understand?
I am not calling you out this specifically, but I find this way of thinking that is being displayed by such a large % of the people in the hobby in general very disturbing. It is exactly why GW is still getting away with their pricing shenanigans.
Here's the point you are missing. Even accounting for the (temporary) bandwagon effect, GW knows it'll sell fifty boxes (more, really) of savage orks for every one box of tomb guard. It's economies of scale in action. First you have to amortize the fixed costs over a much lower sales volume, then try to make a reasonable profit. I say reasonable profit for the enterprise (production of plastic updates to an existing metal model line) as a whole, not the individual sale of one box to one customer. If they can get by making two euros profit per box of orks, they'd have to make a hundred euros per box of tomb guard for it to have been worth their while to do it in the first place. For low volume armies like TK and SoB, getting the models at any price is...cheap. If you insist that they sell them at the same profit margin as space marines, they just won't make them in the first place.
TBD wrote: I am not talking about buying the metal models or whether or not they are worth their price. The metal models are not involved in this conversation.
Every customer, no matter whatever you are buying, should demand to get the best value for his/her money's worth. That is what this is all about.
If GW can produce for you a plastic kit like the new Savage Orcs for 22,75 euros, then they can & should charge you the exact same price for a comparable kit of ten Tomb Guard fellas who undoubtedly have about the exact same number of extra options on their sprues.
But they don't. Instead they charge you 10 euros more for it. Because they feel like it and they know the sheeple will pay it anyway.
In other words: you are not getting the best value for your money.
What exactly about that do you not understand?
I am not calling you out this specifically, but I find this way of thinking that is being displayed by such a large % of the people in the hobby in general very disturbing. It is exactly why GW is still getting away with their pricing shenanigans.
Here's the point you are missing. Even accounting for the (temporary) bandwagon effect, GW knows it'll sell fifty boxes (more, really) of savage orks for every one box of tomb guard. It's economies of scale in action. First you have to amortize the fixed costs over a much lower sales volume, then try to make a reasonable profit. I say reasonable profit for the enterprise (production of plastic updates to an existing metal model line) as a whole, not the individual sale of one box to one customer. If they can get by making two euros profit per box of orks, they'd have to make a hundred euros per box of tomb guard for it to have been worth their while to do it in the first place. For low volume armies like TK and SoB, getting the models at any price is...cheap. If you insist that they sell them at the same profit margin as space marines, they just won't make them in the first place.
An interesting rebuttal. I hadn't looked at it this way before.
TBD wrote:[In other words: you are not getting the best value for your money.
What exactly about that do you not understand?
I have no Tomb Guard and would like some, I find it confusing that now that I have a more efficient option available, someone is asserting I (as a customer) lack backbone for purchasing them.
And yes, the metal models DO factor in, as they are the other option to use.
Tomb King wrote:Hope you all dont like customizing your Tomb king for that mount! He comes assembled like black reach!
Well did you think GW was going to put a fully customizable Tomb King in the Sphynx box? I did not. I didn't even think the Sphynx would look at all like it does, and considering there is only one Tomb King model after they took away the one with Great Weapon, this is a welcome addition, means I don't have to buy either a Tomb King or Lich Priest in my current plan for my new Tomb King army.
Hopefully the new Tomb King range is like SM and DE, all the parts can be swapped and interchanged so I can spruce up my all my humble core Skeleton Warriors with some Tomb Guard goodies
I'm loving the Sphinx. Like the Giant Spider before it, it is an excellent looking model. I deeply dislike fantasy battle but I can see me owning one and making it into some sort of ancient Martian war engine.
Ok there is just no way that large thing on the right is a Necrolith Colossus. It is a Necrosphinx. The blade is an upclose shot of someone's human sized weapon. They have been cut out of the picture through cropping. The blade does not belong to the large creature, because you can clearly see both hands holding it. So unless this supposed "Necrolith Colossus" has two right arms, then the blade doe snot belong to it. When you take the blade out of the equation, the thing looks exactly like something built from the Khemrian Warsphinx/Necrosphinx kit.
Lord Scythican wrote:Ok there is just no way that large thing on the right is a Necrolith Colossus. It is a Necrosphinx. The blade is an upclose shot of someone's human sized weapon. They have been cut out of the picture through cropping. The blade does not belong to the large creature, because you can clearly see both hands holding it. So unless this supposed "Necrolith Colossus" has two right arms, then the blade doe snot belong to it. When you take the blade out of the equation, the thing looks exactly like something built from the Khemrian Warsphinx/Necrosphinx kit.
If that's a human sized weapon then i'm Vanilla Ice. That clearly belongs to the giant thing on the left side of the picture. I fail to see a 2nd hand holding the weapon, i see one at the top end of the weapon and then two sections of the haft / or handle. If it was somebody coming across then the artist decided to have a ninja jump 3 feet away from the camera during the snap shot. Also you can see in the picture that the thing on the left has many different ornamental pieces then you see on the Sphinx's. It's something completely different. I don't imagine GW would have personally asked what we thought it was if it was just another sphinx.
I don't care how silly they are as a concept- skeletons surfing on snakes has absolutely mademy day.
I was hoping that the 'big monster' part of the relaes would be the Bone Giant, but I'm not going to complain about the Sphinx. I can work with that.
(Also, why does every single GW thread on here have to turn into an economics debate? :( 's getting old, folks, and we're all just saying the same thing over and over and over and...)
Misguidance wrote:I don't care how silly they are as a concept- skeletons surfing on snakes has absolutely mademy day.
I was hoping that the 'big monster' part of the relaes would be the Bone Giant, but I'm not going to complain about the Sphinx. I can work with that.
(Also, why does every single GW thread on here have to turn into an economics debate? :( 's getting old, folks, and we're all just saying the same thing over and over and over and...)
Hey I tried to turn this one into a photoshop thread...
Misguidance wrote:I don't care how silly they are as a concept- skeletons surfing on snakes has absolutely mademy day.
I was hoping that the 'big monster' part of the relaes would be the Bone Giant, but I'm not going to complain about the Sphinx. I can work with that.
(Also, why does every single GW thread on here have to turn into an economics debate? :( 's getting old, folks, and we're all just saying the same thing over and over and over and...)
I for one like the Knights and if they're a decent price points wise, I think I'll grab a unit of them and 2-3 Sphinxes. Not sure about Tomb Guard. Hopefully my LGS will have the codex in by Saturday.
Misguidance wrote:I don't care how silly they are as a concept- skeletons surfing on snakes has absolutely mademy day.
I was hoping that the 'big monster' part of the relaes would be the Bone Giant, but I'm not going to complain about the Sphinx. I can work with that.
(Also, why does every single GW thread on here have to turn into an economics debate? :( 's getting old, folks, and we're all just saying the same thing over and over and over and...)
Hey I tried to turn this one into a photoshop thread...
And I applaud your efforts. Also, I really want to see that Thousand Sons... thing... made into reality.
...I wonder how much in the way of spare parts we will get in the Sphinx box? If thre is enough, I bet it would be a great place to get som scenery stuff and conversion bits.
Misguidance wrote:I don't care how silly they are as a concept- skeletons surfing on snakes has absolutely mademy day.
I was hoping that the 'big monster' part of the relaes would be the Bone Giant, but I'm not going to complain about the Sphinx. I can work with that.
(Also, why does every single GW thread on here have to turn into an economics debate? :( 's getting old, folks, and we're all just saying the same thing over and over and over and...)
Hey I tried to turn this one into a photoshop thread...
And I applaud your efforts. Also, I really want to see that Thousand Sons... thing... made into reality.
...I wonder how much in the way of spare parts we will get in the Sphinx box? If thre is enough, I bet it would be a great place to get som scenery stuff and conversion bits.
I bet there is a lot. I know everything that I used in the mockup could be considered spare parts. I have a feeling this conversion will be a very popular one since the bitz will not hurt the model (if you do the option with the riders).
TBD wrote:Every customer, no matter whatever you are buying, should demand to get the best value for his/her money's worth. That is what this is all about.
Ask your wife/girl-friend how many plastic toy soldiers are the best value for your money
Aye, but Calvin and Hobbes comics are the only place the term's been used in hundreds of years. I'd lay a dollar against your pastry of choice that the author's more familar with comic books than he is with 17th century English!
I doubt that 1 American comic is the ONLY place it's been used in hundreds of years.
I honestly can't believe that you're trying to argue this. The GW author got the word from the same place Waterson did: a Thesaurus. I doubt a newspaper comic that ended 15 years ago is where he got it from.
Can one of our British users say if Calvin and Hobbes even RAN in Britain, much less was popular?
TBD wrote:Every customer, no matter whatever you are buying, should demand to get the best value for his/her money's worth. That is what this is all about.
Ask your wife/girl-friend how many plastic toy soldiers are the best value for your money
I love it. Haha I have had this conversation with my girl many a time. "But babe, that is sixty bucks, that's a lot of money, don't you want a new guitar?"
Yeah I got my new guitar and a dark eldar raider. So I win!
TBD wrote:Every customer, no matter whatever you are buying, should demand to get the best value for his/her money's worth. That is what this is all about.
Ask your wife/girl-friend how many plastic toy soldiers are the best value for your money
My wife says: Whatever amount keeps me playing.
She'd rather I play with little men than go out drinking or hanging around places where there are other women. She's a jealous type.
Aye, but Calvin and Hobbes comics are the only place the term's been used in hundreds of years. I'd lay a dollar against your pastry of choice that the author's more familar with comic books than he is with 17th century English!
A simple Google search will show you just how colossally wrong you are. There's software, marketing plans and even a freakin' rock band called Transmogrify.
I've been a TK player for as long as they've existed as a distinct faction.
I had a big load of Undead as my first WH collection, and when the VC/TK split happened I went for the Egyptian looking guys.
I stuck with 'em through years of playing a Ravening Hordes list. Having a perfectly disciplined army of dopey skellies was fun. I even won a fair few games, largely from my opponents having no clue of how to handle the army. In fact, one game got me my first job as a Redshirt.
When they got an army book, I went all out and bought the mega army deal and a bunch of extras. I went conversion crazy and ended up with the cast of a Discworld book. GW at the time having a sense of humour and self-deprecation, I was even allowed by management to use my Seagull Carrion, Pharoah-led Assassins and Camel-riding Priestess in-store.
So I had to build my own Sphinx and use the Scorpion rules for it because some moron decided that an army obviously based on Egyptian pantheism shouldn't have a Sphinx despite said army having a Sphinx in Warmaster. So I couldn't participate in small lunchtime skirmish games due to having to take two expensive characters. I had the finest generals in the game, orchestrating devastating flank charges with a 100% success rate in breaking and wiping out units prior to hibernation.
It was Skull Pass that put them into hibernation. I always wanted a pure Night Goblin army (none of this 'using NG figures to crew regular Goblin artillery' malarky; if you don't chew mushies and live in a cave, you're not in my army) with a load of pet Trolls, and here was my chance. I loves my little unpredictable gobbos. Vaguely herding them towards enemies and waiting for something horrible to happen to someone else was a far more enjoyable game experience than advancing a cavalry line, forcing through an 'incantation of charging you in the ass' through sheer weight of numbers, and sweeping up the board. But I knew that some time there'd be a new release of the Khemri massive, and I'd get back in the chariot to civilise the savage races.
Hmm.
I think I'm going to start saving up to build these Skull Pass leftovers up into the Spider Tribe goblin army I promised myself...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Platuan4th wrote:
march10k wrote:
Origin:
1650–60
Aye, but Calvin and Hobbes comics are the only place the term's been used in hundreds of years. I'd lay a dollar against your pastry of choice that the author's more familar with comic books than he is with 17th century English!
I doubt that 1 American comic is the ONLY place it's been used in hundreds of years.
I honestly can't believe that you're trying to argue this. The GW author got the word from the same place Waterson did: a Thesaurus. I doubt a newspaper comic that ended 15 years ago is where he got it from.
Can one of our British users say if Calvin and Hobbes even RAN in Britain, much less was popular?
All I can say is that it was stocked in bookstores as much as The Far Side, it was fairly well-known amongst my circle of friends, and that a number of that circle (myself included) loved C&H to pieces. Wouldn't be astonishing if this was where the GW designer first encountered the word.
I just tend to bring up economics, as that's part of the incentive to buying new models. If I can get the new plastics for $41.25 USD, or the old metals at the same quantity for $45 USD, and I prefer the old metals more, it... doesn't give me much incentive to get the new plastics.
I still intend to try getting some of the Stalkers, as I love the models, but then I was originally thinking of a second box. With them as they are now? Just a single box is all I really have space for in my budget. I don't think it's much a problem to talk about economics when it's relevant, just a problem when you jump in a thread, go "Guardsmen were 20 for $30 :V", then jump back out after causing the damage.
Wonder whether the new Undead will keep the "Arrows always hit on 5+" special rule? The "Numbers mean your low BS won't matter!" comment leads me to believe a resounding "No".
Minsc wrote:Wonder whether the new Undead will keep the "Arrows always hit on 5+" special rule? The "Numbers mean your low BS won't matter!" comment leads me to believe a resounding "No".
I think I read in the Incoming article that the 'no modifiers to hit' rule still holds true. Cant' confirm it though, since the Incoming article seems to have vanished from GW's site.
I like the skeletons. I really dislike the snakes.
While the sphinx looks impressive, I don't think it really blends well with a TK army.
I suppose all that I can say for the moment is that the new models alone aren't necessarily going to be enough to cause me to pull out my old TK army and make the jump to 8th edition.
I think we all need to remember where GW growth comes from. If models look childish, think for a minute... Perhaps they are going for a 12-16 year old demographic to try and get young people playing the game. Maybe these models were supposed to look cool to a 12 year old who will start with Tomb Kings and play warhammer for the next ten years. It is smart for them to design some armies for young players who will later switch over to a more mature looking army.
Does anyone know if the scorpion is still around? He is still for sale on the website, but I don't see the model anywhere in the pics that just came out.
JimLofa wrote:Does anyone know if the scorpion is still around? He is still for sale on the website, but I don't see the model anywhere in the pics that just came out.
-Jim
If you look on the Tomb Kings Return on GW's site, there are two scorpions in the upper left corner, painted black.
So, it does a minor restoration (not bad!) with every successful casting, in addition to the regular effects.
... In turn, they lost immunity to miscast, immunity to Winds of Magic reliance, and are probably going to be looking at casting values.
So-so. I liked that Nehekharans didn't miscast and had unique stuff, but if Orcs are losing their unique miscast table they might as well lose their own. This would, if I recall right, leave only the Ogres now with their own miscast table, which works because the BRB version of miscasts is nowhere near as terrifying (IMO) to Ogres as it could be.
Speaking of spells, don't forget to pre order early if ya want those spell cards.. they'll be gone before the army book is even out if it's like every other army
Grimgob wrote:@ my FLGS I herd that the book is not ready yet and will not be included with the models in the black box. Can someone confirm this please.
Same here! They said they will ship it out when they finish printing it.
If they're taking away the Tk incantations and made them use normal magic it will be a massive blow to the army.
TK were a long while ago one of the strongest magic armies because of how their incantations worked, without that I really hope they totally reworked the army.
The only reason why TK magic was effective was due to the autocast rule. If they were a normal magic army their lore would have been laughably pitiful and limited. If they're going to be subject to spell failure, let's hope that their lores are in line with everything else.
Grimgob wrote:@ my FLGS I herd that the book is not ready yet and will not be included with the models in the black box. Can someone confirm this please.
themidget428 wrote:Bad news is, at least for the states (idk about elsewhere) but the tomb king codex got stuck in customs XD im guessing robin c was snortin some coke off the codexes. lmao
I also think it's most likely that they'll revert to the standard magic system. They tend to like to simplify things in revised editions/releases so as not to alienate newcomers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I was in my local GW store yesterday, he said they're expecting the black box today or at worst, next Thursday. They get their normal stock deliveries on a Thursday and apparently this stuff just comes along with them. He had no idea of the contents of said black box though.
I shall give him a telephone interrogation later today.
Has anybody got an idea as to the scale of those Spectral Stalkers? I'm a 40K player, but I've just started Egyptian Necrons, and those snakes look pretty boss for Wraith conversions, I'm just not sure if the Stalkers are much too big for wraiths.
Darkjediben wrote:Has anybody got an idea as to the scale of those Spectral Stalkers? I'm a 40K player, but I've just started Egyptian Necrons, and those snakes look pretty boss for Wraith conversions, I'm just not sure if the Stalkers are much too big for wraiths.
That's kinda what I was thinking... when necrons get re-done the TK will be appealing but right now as they are the new minis don't quite hack it.
Ratius, this is everything that's going out the first week of May. There might be a few smaller things later in the month (like normal) and we'll know that in a few weeks.
Wave 2 won't be for at least another 18 months or so, I'm sure.
Darkjediben wrote:Has anybody got an idea as to the scale of those Spectral Stalkers? I'm a 40K player, but I've just started Egyptian Necrons, and those snakes look pretty boss for Wraith conversions, I'm just not sure if the Stalkers are much too big for wraiths.
They're on 50x100 bases, you'll have to do some work to get them on 40s.
Am I the only one who absolutely hates these new models?
IMO they look too cartoonish to me. Granted, the Warsphinx box is pretty cool-looking, but even that has a taste of "gotta get some new big box" feeling, like dreadknight and giant spider thing...
nyyman wrote:Am I the only one who absolutely hates these new models? IMO they look too cartoonish to me. Granted, the Warsphinx box is pretty cool-looking, but even that has a taste of "gotta get some new big box" feeling, like dreadknight and giant spider thing...
So you hate the Shinx, but also think its cool? Am I missing something? I thought the Shinx has been part of the Tomb King lore for a while so......yeah, nothing they can do but put it in a big box, considering its an animated statue.
The Necropolis Knights are a little bit out of the blue, they look, well, meh. I'll probably only get one box and make the non rider snake things and scavenge the riders for other stuff. The Tomb Guard on the other hand look actually amazing, definitely getting two or more of those, because they looke great, and more the extra bits. NOt too happy about their price so maybe order them cheap.
nyyman wrote:Am I the only one who absolutely hates these new models?
IMO they look too cartoonish to me. Granted, the Warsphinx box is pretty cool-looking, but even that has a taste of "gotta get some new big box" feeling, like dreadknight and giant spider thing...
The Knights are the main things that put me off, everything else is just personal taste and price wincing. The Tomb Guard look remarkably bleh to me, especially their heads, but then just a minor shield & head swap would seemingly fix most of the problems.
I'm a bit terrified with the possibility TK's will have, though. Specifically, things like 10pt Tomb Guard with WS6, S5, T4, killing blow. That is, well, very nasty. Can see TK's readily having people use big bricks if that article was correct, since a unit of 30-or-so lead by a Lord might only set you back a good 500pts.
If I don't have time for a TK army there are still so many great conversion opportunities for those new snake riding knights and the Sphinx. And think of the kit-bashing with all the extra parts from those kits. Fantastic!
Quick update on Sphinx rules - Khemri War Sphinx, Toughness 8, 5 wounds, ridden by either a Lich or a Tomb King, or 4 Tomb Guard all with Killing Blow 4 Attacks, Strength 5. Can exchange its attacks for a Thundercrush, place a small template on an adjacent unit and then roll 'a load of die' to wound. It's said is can kill 31 models a turn, if all its attacks wound. Apparently it can Thunderstomp in the same turn as the Thundercrush. It causes Terror too. Necrosphinx - Killing Blow, Decapitating Strike. One attack every turn at Strength 10 with Heroic Killing Blow. Toughness 8, 5 wounds, nothing said about attacks but I assume its 4 at strength 5. It can also fly.
I'm not a huge gamer so I'll leave the rest of you to determine their effectiveness.
One thing that confuses me is why the Sphinx on the right in the top picture is breathing fire. Hopefully this is an as yet unrelieved ability. I would have thought the Necrosphinx would have some new abilities as well. It is a Lord choice after all, and looks too big and important to only have two moves.
I want my Sphinx so I can take the upper body and skull head and convert a Bone Giant, unless they reveal one before release day of course.
That alt Necrosphinx head is nice. That, and multiple types of magic (Nehekharan + Life + Death) is slowly drawing my gaze away from my Night Goblins after all...
I'll be interested to see the actual entry for the Sphinx, since that seems...well insanely broken. Which means that there is like a 50/50 chance that it is correct.
You forget, Vonjan, this is immediately following an Orc book. As such, odds are actually about 80-20 in correctness' favor, with 50-50 being the odds it prices between a Giant and Arachnarok in price.
Looks nasty, wouldn't be surprised it that's how GW tries to resolve "Monster" issues: Just give them the ability to crap out a ton of hits on someone at once. Glad to see that Monsters seem to get a lot of anti-monster abilities as well, allowing for some interesting clashes as a Venom-Surging Arachnarok engages with a Necrosphinx.
vonjankmon wrote:I'll be interested to see the actual entry for the Sphinx, since that seems...well insanely broken. Which means that there is like a 50/50 chance that it is correct.
Well it comes from GWs daily update, it's not speculation, its fact. Unless they change the rules between now and May, these will be the rules for the Sphinxes. They aren't hugely specific but they are official.
It would have been great if the new army book was in the black box. Maybe they want people to order stuff before they find out what it does in the game. I would only do this if I was just buying the model to paint it.
As I said earlier, I like the new models. Some are better than others, but thankfully there are no pumbagores. If GW does not do well with this release, I take it as a response to the high cost of 8th ed.
iproxtaco wrote:Can exchange its attacks for a Thundercrush, place a small template on an adjacent unit and then roll 'a load of die' to wound. It's said is can kill 31 models a turn, if all its attacks wound. Apparently it can Thunderstomp in the same turn as the Thundercrush.
iproxtaco wrote:Can exchange its attacks for a Thundercrush, place a small template on an adjacent unit and then roll 'a load of die' to wound. It's said is can kill 31 models a turn, if all its attacks wound. Apparently it can Thunderstomp in the same turn as the Thundercrush.
This sounds... ludicrous, honestly.
Ludicrously awesome!
No, truthfully, it does sound a little much. I understand they feel the need for monsters to get past their weakness vs Blocks, but I think they need to stay in their support/anvil role instead of being the ultimate hammer that can wipe blocks by themselves.
I was telling my local GW Mgr that tomb kings was probably GW's last chance to pull me back in to fantasy which I have not played for a couple of years, much less bought any new models.
The new models have me excited and have got me ready to jump back in, but desperately want to see how the rules work out.
With only 4 attacks, you're almost always better off doing the crush, you'd be hard pressed to fit a small template over less than 4 models. Obvious exceptions are made for single model units (like other monsters) or anything with only one rank. But even against 10 guys (2 ranks of 5) on 25mm bases (like say, Chaos Warriors) you're going to get more than 4 models under a template.
I'll assume that since it uses a template the hits are randomized as per shooting (and thus somehow allows a LoS! save), but even still...
I think the thing with Thundercrush is what str is strikes at. It uses the Sphinx str 5, well just wow...
It's something like a str 2 hit, that seems a bit more inline with things. I could still do some damage but it really lowers the insane infantry just got pwned moments.
Hmmm... So priests can ride warsphinxes, too? That actually makes them useful, perhaps, maybe. I'm certain that I want my kings on foot for MWBD, and at the same time, a warsphinx out of lord/hero points easily pushes a character out of the mix the same way the casket does...but it does seem like a good way to keep the heiro alive...I guess I'll have to wait and see the book. One thing's for sure, though, I'm definitely doing a necrosphinx with crook and flail, rather than those dopey katar looking blades.
And using winds of magic, I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason to take a HLP (MWBD>L3/4)...I'm thinking two survivor kings for lords, and three-four priests for heroes (two nehekerans and 1-2 lore of light)... unless TPs get to boost their units' WS as well...in which case I'd go the opposite way and spam 3-4 princes, and take two HLPs (to get 4/6 spells from each lore, assuming those taking the TK lore don't automatically know all spells?)
Dropping my SSC and the points drop for my skellies should give me the points for the necrosphinx, and the character changes will of course be internal to that point allowance...
The cool thing is, with no casket or catapult to protect, my tactical options go up dramatically!
vonjankmon wrote:I think the thing with Thundercrush is what str is strikes at. It uses the Sphinx str 5, well just wow...
It's something like a str 2 hit, that seems a bit more inline with things. I could still do some damage but it really lowers the insane infantry just got pwned moments.
\
No its a strength 5 hit, on all models under the template. I guess it may be evened out depending on what roll you need to actually hit with the attack in the first place, before rolling for wounds and saves.
Some insights by the first people having read the army book:
Notushabti over at Tomb King Forum wrote:From my reading of the TK army book this afternoon.We still cause fear, can't march, Arrows of the asp, and hold for charge reaction. Unbreakable/unstable special rules etc.
Magic: Must take our Nehekharan lore on heirophant and additional casters can choose either from the Lores of light or death.
We only use power dice from Winds of Magic now. I am assuming that we can miscast now as well.
Level 1 Liche 70 pts , Lvl 2 upgrade for 35pts
Level 3 high Liche priest 170 pts, Lvl 4 upgrade 35pts
Nehekharan lore: The restless dead is the lore attribute. D3 + 1 wounds if augment spell is successfully caste on friendly Nehekharan undead target unit.
Khsar's incantation of the desert wind (signature spell). Caste on 8+. all unengaged friendly nehekharan undead units within 12" may make a single move as if in the remaining moves sub-phase (cannot charge). all non engaged friendlies can be instead targeted within 24" for a casting value of 16+. Any unit can only be effected by the desert wind once per turn.(undead construct units can only recover 1 wound per turn)
1. DJaf's Incantation of Cursed Blades. 7+. Augment, range 12". Until the start of your next magic phase close combat attacks gain killing blow or heroic killing blow special rule. If the unit already has killing blow or herioc killing blow special abilty, it will work on a 'To wound' roll of 5 or 6+ while this spell is in play. can increase range to 24" instead on a casting value of 10+
2. Neru's Incantation of Protection 9+. Augment range 12", until start of caster's next magic phase.
5+ ward save on a single friendly target unit. all friendly units within 12" can be targeted instead for 18+
3. Ptra's Incantation of righteous smiting 9+. Augment range 12" until start of caster's next magic phase. Target unit gains 1 attack (mounts, riders, models crewing chariots, monsters and war machines). If armed with a bow or great bow then get multiple shot (2) special rule. All friendly Nehekharan undead units can be targeted instead within 24" for 18+.
4. Usirian's Incantation of Vengeance, hex range 18" 10+. Until start of caster's next magic phase target unit has its movement reduced by D3 to min of 1 & all terrain is treated as dangerous terrain if unit moves. range can be extended to 36" for a casting value of 13+. Until start of next magic phase.
5. Usekhp's Incantation of Desiccation, 11+ hex range 24". target unit suffers -1 strength, -1 toughness (to min of 1) Until start of caster's next magic phase. Can instead choose to reduce by D3 (min of 1) for a casting value of 22+
6. Sakmet's Incantaion of the Skullstorm, Remains in play. magical vortex 15+. small template is placed on the board and a direction is nominated. artillery dice is rolled and the number is multiplied by wizard level = amount template is moved in stated direction. Every model passed over or under the template suffers a single strength 4 hit. misfire = place template over caster and scatter by wizards level in random direction. use large round template for a casting value 25+. on subsequent turns, vortex moves randomly equal to role of artillery dice. if misfire, vortex dissipates instantly.
Units: There is an impressive mix of special characters.
eg: There is a lvl 5 wizard for 360pts, Arkhan the Black.
From memory skeletons are 4 pts with 30 points for full command
hand weapon and shield is free
spear is 1+ point per model, light armour is 1 pt per model.
Bowmen are 6 pts, 30 pts for full command, 1pt per model for light armour.
heavy horsemen are 12 pts with vanguard
skeleton horsemen 14pts (light cav) scout special rule.
Ushabti are 50 points each. Can add command units and giant bows str 6 30"
chariots are 55 points forming ranks 3 models wide.
a new model that gives undead constructs regeneration within 12"
a new model that acts as body guard to Tomb King except in a challenge, he steps in to take the hit on a 2+
skulls of the foe is now 30 points
Casket now 135 points has 3 wounds and doesn't have a priest as crew
Light of death works differently
It came from below:
Place the marker in remaining moves phase, Buried units are raised using scatter dice but cannot charge. miscast is the same.
Magic items: (from memory)
Destroyer of Eternities 80 pts
Blade of Ankhara 50 pts? every unsaved wound gains 1 wound.
enkhils kanopy 50 pts?
cloak of dunes 50 pts?:character has fly and any enemy unit flown over takes D? damage.
BotuL 50 pts power level 5.
Banner of the hidden sands is 90 points and any reserve troops (not yet deployed) up to 150 points can be deployed within 12" of bearer in remaining moves sub phase.
(...)
Light of death of is:(from memory) roll 3d6,combine total and compare to units highest leadership (not sure about generals inspiring presence). if the roll is higher than leadership the difference is the amount of wounds with no armor saves, distributed as shooting attacks. Then choose a unit within 6", on 4+ the light of death jumps to that unit roll 3d6 and so on. If the casket is destoyed any units with 12" takes (d6 str6 hits)?
I cannot remember if this is the mechanism for it going off or if it is only how damage is resolved.
We saw a giant with the unstoppable assault special rule for 170 pts. You could extras like another hand weapon and and Bow to take it to 215 points in total.
(...)
Also, please do not get too hung up on the wording of my posts. They are by no means an exact transcription.
(...)
I feel that they have done a good job breathing new life into our beloved TK.
Mannfred over at Warseer wrote:Umm here are some special rules for the new tomb kings:
Special Characters: Arkhan the black - Lv5 wizard...i kid you not
Special Necrotect - gives boast to constructs on the board
Settra's Herald - a more buffed up version of the Tomb King herald
A Tomb prince/king that is actually made up of scrabs
Khalida is still in an she gives the unit she joins poison shooting, and also they can use her ballistic skill of 3 instead of the usual 2.
Tomb King - my will be done, gives the unit joined his ws of 6
Tomb Prince
Tomb Herald - Mix between an icon bearer and a champion
Necrotect - gives all constructs within 12 inches of them regeneration
Core Units: Nothing different here.....skeles are 4pts each, and bows ones are 1 or 2 points more than them.
Chariots - d6 impact hits at str4 +1 str for each rank behind the first but they are no longer fast cav but still on 5+ armour
Light Cavalry get the fast cav special rule
Heavy/Regular Cav get the vanguard rule
Special: Ushabti - new plastic ushabti with bows, 30inch str6 volley fire.
Tomb scorpion - same
Carrions - same
Necroknights - the tomb guard ridding giant serpents
Stalkers - have a special attack, for each one it's an 8inch shooting attack x artillery dice and at str 1 against enemy initiative, no armour saves. If you roll misfire you take d3 wounds back....because....it describes shiny bits of armour and swords reflecting their gaze and hence they turn themselves to stone...
Tomb Guard - can have halberds and bows i fink....bows do not have killing blow
Rare: - the good stuff
Casket of Souls - 3d6 leadership against a unit and then on a 4+ it can bounce to a unit beside it...
The sphinex with tomb guards on it's back, thunderstomp on 2d6.
The sphinex with blades, special str 10 heroic killing blow attack
Tomb Giant - the one we know of, can also take a bow, and it's a bolt thrower basically.
Special Tomb Giant - this on is a giant liche priest. It gives d3 extra casting to spells within 12 and has 3 spells of it's own, bound items.
Enjoy.
(...)
Umm Magic Items....lol it's pretty sad...it's like the Orcs and Gobo book so theres only like 8 pieces of wargear all up if fink
2 Weapons - Destroyer is in...and the other one is like for each wound cause you get a wound back? I fink it's like blooddrinker from Vamps.
1 Armour - ??
umm one enchanted item - is one use only gives d6 extra to incantations for the wizard for one turn.
Oh magic banners....
The reform banner is in.....clueless why
but the other on is like banner of hidden legion....150pts and the unit gets to like act like a tomb scorpion so it comes from below special rule but different wording...if you choose it to come up from within 12 of the banner you get to re-roll the scatter dice.
Ummm ushabati can get addition hand weapon or great weapon or great bow - sorry but the bow is like wtf so yea...
Umm skeles? The basic skele i believe has shield and hand weapon mentioned above. Oh and bow armed skeles are 2 extra points.
Chariots are....if the old ones were 50pts their now 5 points more.....
Belverker over at Warseer wrote:Skeletons have hand weapon and shield, can get spears and light armour at the usual cost
So another big monster that can be auto killed by a cannon that will hit almost all the time due to engineer rules
Does gw not understand why monsters suck? Oh well it can sit next to my stegadons. HOwever, on the flip side they seem to have realized that undead needed to be 4 pts a model due to how unfair unstable is against them. Good job!
I like multiple shots that never need more than a 5+ to hit.. Poor highelves, youre even more awful with your bows now
... Killing Blow Tomb Guard on 5+? WS6, S4 w/ 4+/5+ save or WS6 S5 5+ save unit with 5+ killing blow? That... ouch. I feel sorry for Cavalry now. I also feel sorry for my Boyz, as now I'm definitely getting the Boss stuck-in with the Tomb Guard, so it's only going to be Goblins that ever get anywhere near them.
5+ Ward Spell is mixed. And by that, I mean "mixed on degree of power". Decent spell, but not sure how close it comes to "crazy".
Single Righteous Smiting / Game is going to hurt TK shooting armies, a lot.
Vengeance looks a bit weak to me, but only because of Itchy Nuisance.
Desiccation also seems a bit weak to me, in this case when compared to BRB. Combining it with... whatever Lore's signature spell could be nasty, though, with many, many D3's of stats sapped.
Skullstorm looks good for slamming someone with lots of hits at once.
Well, there goes my hope for TK's with Arkhan. I just... am not looking forward to them like this.
Ushabti at 50pts / apiece is not surprising.
If Light of Death is shooting, can be nasty versus low-leadership armies. Can.
Thematically? Eh, thematically GW killed Tomb Kings for me (somehow!). Model-wise I still have a great interest to get them, and if I can I'll try to buy the old TK book when I next step in my GW, but as for actually playing the army? No thank you.
I have to say that the new sphinx things are pretty damn awesome, they nearly made me want to start a tomb kings army. They're not a bad price either, considering it's GW we're on about here and it is a huge two-in-one kit.
Their rules do seem pretty awesome too, both seem to be able to cause a lot of damage, and one can even fly! That should teach those cannons a lesson or two!
The rules just seem very "meh" to me. I know that the TK have only been seperate from VC for one army book but they really had a unique feel to them with their spells and army. This new book just really feels like they're just more of the same that's out there.
Losing the ability to charge via magic hurts them a lot too, since that's basically the only way the TK currently function.
iproxtaco wrote:Can exchange its attacks for a Thundercrush, place a small template on an adjacent unit and then roll 'a load of die' to wound. It's said is can kill 31 models a turn, if all its attacks wound. Apparently it can Thunderstomp in the same turn as the Thundercrush.
This sounds... ludicrous, honestly.
Of course they are going to bring out the coolest and most ridiculous aspects of the army. This is a business and they are trying to entice people to buy their product. When we get our hands on the book, we may actually see a balanced army... So much rides on core troops and army synergy for any army book. Most armies have one or two all star units. Look at the steam tank or the bloodthirster for example. Still, a general can not win with these units alone.
I sure hope a lot of this is wrong, although I have a feeling it will not be.
1) Losing incantations took away the really unique thing about the army. And the new lore sucks for the most part. A lot of TK armies will need multiple units on the field to function but you can't spin your buffs everywhere like you could before. And seriously.. what other lore has so many 15+ casting requirements in it.
2) Nerfing Khalida. Lame.
3) Nerfing shooty-kings as a whole. Terrible!
4) Nerfing It came from below! bs! Why even take a scorpion for war machine hunting when now it pops up on your turn, then they just turn around and shoot/charge it on their turn. Completely freaking stupid.
5) Really? The Casket had to get hit too?
Final thoughts?
Unless a lot of this is wrong, this is definately Tyranid Cruddace and not Guard Cruddace. They got rid of almost all of my favorite things about the army. They should have just left them on the shelf until someone who actually understood the army would have a chance to write it. Now it's so much less strategy and more blocking up doods with a high WS and marching them into other doods with high WS's, except your doods have KB!
RARARAR.
I just spent 300$ on GK stuff, as it was 1 of my 4 armies. I have a feeling I wont be repeating that trend with TK's. Sheesh. Just thinking about it makes me pissed. Stupid GW. Stupid Cruddace. God dammit. One of my favorite armies now just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll wait to see the book before I sell off my Kings, just in case, but this sucks and there's nothing I can do but wonder why they thought anything listed about (except the modeling work) was a good idea.
I'm liking the prospect of 50 point ushabti. It almost makes a horde a viable option. Str 6 bows, and the MI friendly eighth edition rules have put these guys near the top of my list for this new release.
A lvl 5 wizard?? C'mon, running a TK army is gonna be like running eldar now, anyone who plays them will ALWAYS run Arkhan the Black. I wonder what kinda wargear he'll have.
I am kinda glad to see that special character come back though. He had a neat model back in the day
Unfortunately now that I've sat and thought about it for a bit I think I'm in agreement with Thunderfrog. Was really looking forward to the TK coming out, was going to start fantasy back up, and then they give us this crap...
I think I'll just buy the army book and take a look but if even half of what we think now is true I think I'll just leave my TK on the shelf and get back into Hordes, I haven't played my Everblight in a couple of years now.
Of corse, doesent every set of rumours that get posted up on the internet sound ludicrouse, but then when the codex/army book comes out, a suprising amount of them are true, and on paper they look amazing, but in game they tend to not be as effective as first thaught, or to get them it costs a lot in points and a lot of people go back to spam listing again
Thunderfrog wrote:I sure hope a lot of this is wrong, although I have a feeling it will not be.
1) Losing incantations took away the really unique thing about the army. And the new lore sucks for the most part. A lot of TK armies will need multiple units on the field to function but you can't spin your buffs everywhere like you could before. And seriously.. what other lore has so many 15+ casting requirements in it.
2) Nerfing Khalida. Lame.
3) Nerfing shooty-kings as a whole. Terrible!
4) Nerfing It came from below! bs! Why even take a scorpion for war machine hunting when now it pops up on your turn, then they just turn around and shoot/charge it on their turn. Completely freaking stupid.
5) Really? The Casket had to get hit too?
Final thoughts?
Unless a lot of this is wrong, this is definately Tyranid Cruddace and not Guard Cruddace. They got rid of almost all of my favorite things about the army. They should have just left them on the shelf until someone who actually understood the army would have a chance to write it. Now it's so much less strategy and more blocking up doods with a high WS and marching them into other doods with high WS's, except your doods have KB!
RARARAR.
I just spent 300$ on GK stuff, as it was 1 of my 4 armies. I have a feeling I wont be repeating that trend with TK's. Sheesh. Just thinking about it makes me pissed. Stupid GW. Stupid Cruddace. God dammit. One of my favorite armies now just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll wait to see the book before I sell off my Kings, just in case, but this sucks and there's nothing I can do but wonder why they thought anything listed about (except the modeling work) was a good idea.
If you are raging against GW just for the sake of doing so, then just say it. From your complaints, it sounds like you enjoy TK the way they are now so why not just play the current codex? If you hate an armybook that hasnt even been released yet, and hence you havent actually seen, why not just play what you like? Or is your problem that you didnt get an armybook that was super powered in your eyes? Dont say the man that wrote the rules doesnt understand the army; thats not whats upsetting you, considering you bemoan the Tyranid codex and laud the IG codex. Just say its balanced and you didnt want that, just say you feel entitled to a really powerful army rather than cursing GW for changing the things *you* liked.
As far as TK goes, I will wait to see the entire ruleset before passing judgment. It looks interesting, but different. Since Im not beholden to the current armybook, Im looking forward to dissecting the list and seeing what kinds of tricks I can pull out of it. Im not sold on the new trend of fitting large monsters into every army, but it does make me wonder what they'll come up with next.
Thunderfrog wrote:I sure hope a lot of this is wrong, although I have a feeling it will not be.
1) Losing incantations took away the really unique thing about the army. And the new lore sucks for the most part. A lot of TK armies will need multiple units on the field to function but you can't spin your buffs everywhere like you could before. And seriously.. what other lore has so many 15+ casting requirements in it.
2) Nerfing Khalida. Lame.
3) Nerfing shooty-kings as a whole. Terrible!
4) Nerfing It came from below! bs! Why even take a scorpion for war machine hunting when now it pops up on your turn, then they just turn around and shoot/charge it on their turn. Completely freaking stupid.
5) Really? The Casket had to get hit too?
Final thoughts?
Unless a lot of this is wrong, this is definately Tyranid Cruddace and not Guard Cruddace. They got rid of almost all of my favorite things about the army. They should have just left them on the shelf until someone who actually understood the army would have a chance to write it. Now it's so much less strategy and more blocking up doods with a high WS and marching them into other doods with high WS's, except your doods have KB!
RARARAR.
I just spent 300$ on GK stuff, as it was 1 of my 4 armies. I have a feeling I wont be repeating that trend with TK's. Sheesh. Just thinking about it makes me pissed. Stupid GW. Stupid Cruddace. God dammit. One of my favorite armies now just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll wait to see the book before I sell off my Kings, just in case, but this sucks and there's nothing I can do but wonder why they thought anything listed about (except the modeling work) was a good idea.
If you are raging against GW just for the sake of doing so, then just say it. From your complaints, it sounds like you enjoy TK the way they are now so why not just play the current codex? If you hate an armybook that hasnt even been released yet, and hence you havent actually seen, why not just play what you like? Or is your problem that you didnt get an armybook that was super powered in your eyes? Dont say the man that wrote the rules doesnt understand the army; thats not whats upsetting you, considering you bemoan the Tyranid codex and laud the IG codex. Just say its balanced and you didnt want that, just say you feel entitled to a really powerful army rather than cursing GW for changing the things *you* liked.
As far as TK goes, I will wait to see the entire ruleset before passing judgment. It looks interesting, but different. Since Im not beholden to the current armybook, Im looking forward to dissecting the list and seeing what kinds of tricks I can pull out of it. Im not sold on the new trend of fitting large monsters into every army, but it does make me wonder what they'll come up with next.
Its fresh and its new and has a few new units but its still not a top tier army by any means. They took away some of the best things tomb kings still had and then gave us a few good units to try an compensate. They took a real weak army book and bumped it up to just a weak army book. The fluff just went out the window. We ride snakes now and are ushabti have bows??? The hierophant magic is okay but significantly less then are current incantations. Catapults just went down in my book. Looks like we will have to spam the new and expensive units to be competitive. I feel like we are more like vampire counts now but lacking more on are ability to regenerate.
Tomb kings giving their ws... hmmm helm of commandment anyone?
Im surprised we didnt get something that can give us always strike first or a khemri coach that steals powerdice.
Absolutely ridiculous prices. I mean come on, $91 Australian for 3 cobras? What the hell is GW thinking? Seriously, I thought they were trying to get more people into the game, not scaring away those that have been in the hobby for a decade or more. Looks like I'll be sticking with Mantic Games, seems as they have got something right with their models. The prices.
Thunderfrog wrote:I sure hope a lot of this is wrong, although I have a feeling it will not be.
1) Losing incantations took away the really unique thing about the army. And the new lore sucks for the most part. A lot of TK armies will need multiple units on the field to function but you can't spin your buffs everywhere like you could before. And seriously.. what other lore has so many 15+ casting requirements in it.
2) Nerfing Khalida. Lame.
3) Nerfing shooty-kings as a whole. Terrible!
4) Nerfing It came from below! bs! Why even take a scorpion for war machine hunting when now it pops up on your turn, then they just turn around and shoot/charge it on their turn. Completely freaking stupid.
5) Really? The Casket had to get hit too?
Final thoughts?
Unless a lot of this is wrong, this is definately Tyranid Cruddace and not Guard Cruddace. They got rid of almost all of my favorite things about the army. They should have just left them on the shelf until someone who actually understood the army would have a chance to write it. Now it's so much less strategy and more blocking up doods with a high WS and marching them into other doods with high WS's, except your doods have KB!
RARARAR.
I just spent 300$ on GK stuff, as it was 1 of my 4 armies. I have a feeling I wont be repeating that trend with TK's. Sheesh. Just thinking about it makes me pissed. Stupid GW. Stupid Cruddace. God dammit. One of my favorite armies now just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll wait to see the book before I sell off my Kings, just in case, but this sucks and there's nothing I can do but wonder why they thought anything listed about (except the modeling work) was a good idea.
If you are raging against GW just for the sake of doing so, then just say it. From your complaints, it sounds like you enjoy TK the way they are now so why not just play the current codex? If you hate an armybook that hasnt even been released yet, and hence you havent actually seen, why not just play what you like? Or is your problem that you didnt get an armybook that was super powered in your eyes? Dont say the man that wrote the rules doesnt understand the army; thats not whats upsetting you, considering you bemoan the Tyranid codex and laud the IG codex. Just say its balanced and you didnt want that, just say you feel entitled to a really powerful army rather than cursing GW for changing the things *you* liked.
As far as TK goes, I will wait to see the entire ruleset before passing judgment. It looks interesting, but different. Since Im not beholden to the current armybook, Im looking forward to dissecting the list and seeing what kinds of tricks I can pull out of it. Im not sold on the new trend of fitting large monsters into every army, but it does make me wonder what they'll come up with next.
You're .. well.. something. I've been warned by the mods twice for the word I want to use.
If you are raging against GW just for the sake of doing so, then just say it. From your complaints, it sounds like you enjoy TK the way they are now so why not just play the current codex?
Because I play in an enviroment where most of our playing time comes via tournaments.. which wont take an old army book. I am NOT clamoring against GW in general. If I were, I wouldn't have mentioned a lot of TK specific stressers.. I would have just went on about GW sucking at everything they do.
Or is your problem that you didnt get an armybook that was super powered in your eyes? Dont say the man that wrote the rules doesnt understand the army; thats not whats upsetting you, considering you bemoan the Tyranid codex and laud the IG codex.
Wrong again. Point is, if I was crying about wanting an OP army book, I would NOT be wanting TK's to stay as they are. Nothing that's new has really been TK unique. Instead, they took a step backwards and are aiming the codex at being a VC knockoff, life the poster above mentioned. Sure, they used some name references from the Nagash the Sorceror books, but that's little more than lip service. Why would a Vampire SC pop up in a TK book? Lame. Giving us a carbon copy VC ability to transfer WS? Lame.
I don't give a rats ass about what's "competitive". I've won far more games with the current super weak TK codex than I had any right too. If the book just kept it's originality that'd be enough, but they couldn't even get the idea of an incantation in there.. and worse, they mechanically dismantle the current TK builds that were focused on the things that made the army unique. The reference to Nids and Guards wasn't to say I want a Guard equivilant level of dominance from the TK book. It was to say that Cruddace has made 1 book thats proved strong, and 1 that is a joke.
From the looks of things, you can add another book to the "Joke" column.
It really makes me sad to see that GW is dumming down the armory and magic sections of the new armie books for more simple players. It really robs me of the depth and detail I loved to put into my lords and heros and just give all the armies the cookie cutter feel I drifted away from 40k for.
kastellan wrote:Absolutely ridiculous prices. I mean come on, $91 Australian for 3 cobras? What the hell is GW thinking? Seriously, I thought they were trying to get more people into the game, not scaring away those that have been in the hobby for a decade or more. Looks like I'll be sticking with Mantic Games, seems as they have got something right with their models. The prices.
Hey, this might sound heretical, but does anyone know where i can get alternative skeletons for TK? I love the new models and rules, but i can't stand the old skeletons. Can anyone help???
). This is a great move for GeeDub: sell lots of the current boxes, at jacked up prices (by repackaging 10 to a box, or simply raising prices), to people who have been lured in by the shiny toys, and sell the new toys to old players drawn back to their 
