That is a problem with price increases PEOPLE DON'T READ THE WHOLE THING. They see price increase and start to rant without reading the whole thing sounds like somthing an ork would do

moonshine wrote:That is a problem with price increases PEOPLE DON'T READ THE WHOLE THING. They see price increase and start to rant without reading the whole thing sounds like somthing an ork would do

Wait, people don't read the whole thing?

This is shockingly familiar. Like the Ward hate before this and whatever the internet was raging about before that and so on and so on.

I agree that this is frustrating news, but I think that there could be some good in it also.

If they really are going to be pumping the extra income into games development, better supplies, materials, etc. then I support it. An important thing that many of us seem to be forgetting is that you can't expect them to be able to continue to improve the game as a whole on the same budget that they had a year ago.

The new sculpts that we have been getting are on the most part stunning, a new armybook/codex every other month or so is very cool. Yes, paying more blows, but we should also try to think about how much the hobby has grown and how much more they have been putting out for us lately too.

Fact of the matter is that, prices have been increasing steadily but they have also been dumping tons of resources into continually improving the games through updated content, models, etc.

Alphapod wrote:
It seems clear to me (having taken ONE economics class) that GW is far underestimating the price elasticity of demand of their product. They seem to think that the decrease in sales from a price increase will always be outweighed by the increase in revenue. This isn't true; every demand curve has both elastic and inelastic segments. I believe (from what I know personally, from what I've heard, and from what I've read here) that GW is now in the elastic segment of their demand curve: they will experience a revenue decrease with price increases. Since many of their cost are not per unit (ex. paying sculptors, buying molds), it makes more sense for GW to try and sell more models, as the increase in revenue will not be dampened by an increase in total costs as much as would be expected because per-unit cost are falling (possibly could be called economies of scale).

Are you sure GW has underestimated the price elasticity of the demand for their product? Long ago I realised that I am not GW's target client (I've been in the hobby for fourteen years and easily spend $1000 usd a year) because there are few out there like me. Every move they make spites the long term buyers; 300% price increases over time on the same product, the decline of white dwarf, just read over dakka and you can see the decision making. Their target is children, in the 12-15 year range, and it is on them that they make their money. Kid comes in, buys a starter set, a codex, and three or four boxes, then never comes back in. It happens alot, I've seen it. I've spoken with my local Red Shirt (although they dont wear red anymore do they), and he tells me that those sales happen most frequently.

Thinking about it, he is probibally right. Of the fifty or so regulars (we have a decent local community), I would argue that a little less than half spend less than that 12-15 year old's start up in a given year. As much as they may hang out and play games, rarely do they buy anything. There is a second tier, people who buy models here or there, but are price sensitive, and only pay enough in-store to justify playing in-store, spending less that $500 dollars a year on the hobby (realistically many are lower). The rest of us either spend more, but really there can't be more than 10 of us who do. All togeather we probibally spend 35-40k in store a year, and I think I am high on that number, but my local GW has tried, rather successfully, to increase sales this year, and did a number of things right with incenitves. This number is not enough to keep a store running. For every 50 people GW gets started, assuming spend 3-400 each, GW brings in 15-20k. That means they only have to bring in one player every week, to hit that number. Ive seen my local red shirt bring in 3-4 people in a day (Obviously not repeatable every day, but at least once, if not twice, a week). Scary what their actual sales off of this customer base might actually be. I don't know that this is the case everywhere, but it is at my GW, and I am led to believe that this is the GW model.

Also, I don't know price flexibility matters so much when you factor in GW's actual costs vs. returns. Most of the models design costs are paid for, and their production costs are minimal. The fact that they could sell some of these models 20 for 22 dollars and still do well financially ought to indicate their cost per unit is very low. I think it is fair to say, across the board, prices have increased and average of 100% atleast since I've started. Chances are that is all profit. Even this most recent round of increase, 2-25%, is all profit; there is no way it is anything else. Depending on how much those who are leaving spent monthly (I'm assuming it wasn't equal to the insensitive bunch as per definition) vs. those who were price insensitive, not forgetting the other half of the client base, could mean that GW will see an increase in revenue even if 1 in 4 of their regular customers left. Not to mention, because of the high profit margin per unit, they may not lose money as a company unless a full half to two thirds of their regulars stopped buying. All of this is very speculative, but it is a possibility if my conception of the breakdown GW's customers are accurate.

I agree that this is frustrating news, but I think that there could be some good in it also.

I'm just not seeing it this time for reasons I've expressed earlier on. This is just one of four announcements this week that cut deep into their customers' ability to continue in the GW hobby. I'm not defending this one, not this time.

osumicrobio wrote:If they really are going to be pumping the extra income into games development, better supplies, materials, etc. then I support it.

1.) The money goes to paying dividends.
2.) Raising prices has never created more income for GW, on the contrary.

@Brass:
Yes, this has been a rough week for the hobby as far as news goes :-X I just see the hobby now compared to the hobby 12 years ago when I started and it is night and day. Some good things have been taken away, some good things have been added, but the hobby has changed completely and has a lot added to it.

@Kroot
Are you sure that the money is going to dividends or is that an assumption? Not trying to argue, just trying to get things straight. Generating extra income was probably poor word choice, I meant to say that it covers their increased costs of labor and materials going into updating the games.

pretre wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Are you kidding me.... I'm speechless. I'm absolutely dumbfounded.

I simply cannot afford to pay 40$ for a rhino. I cannot, by any means drop 30$ on a box of warriors. This is an outrage. I quit. Games Workshop is out of control, and they're obviously never going to lower their prices, so I see no reason to buy their products any more.

You got part of that first sentence right. Please read the spreadsheet again. Neither of those items went up in price. It in fact says 'No change in price' right next to them.

What are you talking about? It says 33.00 --> 39.75 or something. Same with 25.00 --> 29.75 for the warriors


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh. Lol. That's the price in CAD, not the new price. My window didn't expand far enough to see the top

I get that this is a recession, but this is just getting ridiculous.

I reckon that if they dropped the prices by 50p (Pound Sterling), people would hate on them less, and they'd sell more, which would be good for everything.

But then, it would be good for us poor players.

If you actually read they're end of year report you realise that they are not making milions, iirc only 1% of revenue getnerated was actually profit. The reason they cannot decrease prices is because: Material increases in price, shipping cost more, running stores cost more. If you decreased prices you would also need to decrease quality, here is an example:
If you make a model for 10£ and sell it for 20£ then you make 10£ profit

If you sell that same model for 12£ then you make 2" profit no matter how many you sell and you would need to sell 5 of those models to get theyr'e money back.

That is a small scale example and models do not actually cost 10£ to make (they are cheaper than that by far) but the principal is the same. You are stuck with a choice betwean having: good quality models or cheap models. In a few years I have no doubt people will be complaining about privateer press for increasing prices.

Oh and by the way a brand new Mould costs about 4000£- used, a good quality Mould would cost much more, you would need several of them to maintain quantity and the cost of maintaining them is very high indeed. Just somthing to think about.

I am in no way completly supporting gw but I like to look at all the Facts instead of going of and Bitching.

conversely though they are in the mess because of their behavior/decisions in the past.

The constant price hiking together with other silly decisions have brought their profits to a standstill.

osumicrobio wrote:@Kroot
Are you sure that the money is going to dividends or is that an assumption? Not trying to argue, just trying to get things straight. Generating extra income was probably poor word choice, I meant to say that it covers their increased costs of labor and materials going into updating the games.

GW's half-yearly report 25th january 2011 wrote:Operating profit at £6.7m (...)
A dividend of £7,784,000 (25.0 pence per share) was paid in the six months to 28 November 2010.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10770556
I am no financial expert, but dividend looks £1m greater than the profit.

moonshine wrote:If you actually read they're end of year report you realise that they are not making milions, iirc only 1% of revenue getnerated was actually profit. The reason they cannot decrease prices is because: Material increases in price, shipping cost more, running stores cost more. If you decreased prices you would also need to decrease quality, here is an example:
If you make a model for 10£ and sell it for 20£ then you make 10£ profit

If you sell that same model for 12£ then you make 2" profit no matter how many you sell and you would need to sell 5 of those models to get theyr'e money back.

That is a small scale example and models do not actually cost 10£ to make (they are cheaper than that by far) but the principal is the same. You are stuck with a choice betwean having: good quality models or cheap models. In a few years I have no doubt people will be complaining about privateer press for increasing prices.

Oh and by the way a brand new Mould costs about 4000£- used, a good quality Mould would cost much more, you would need several of them to maintain quantity and the cost of maintaining them is very high indeed. Just somthing to think about.

I am in no way completly supporting gw but I like to look at all the Facts instead of going of and Bitching.

But a more ACCURATE measure would be to take a look at their revenues. While there was an increase in revenue, their sales VOLUME seems to have decreased when you take into account inflation and price increases.

So although they are making more revenue, their profits are flat and their sales volume is decreasing. Basic economics shows that if the aggregate demand has decreased, increasing cost is the LAST thing you should do. That would only further decrease demand. Instead, GW should be keeping stable pricing and working to decrease their costs.

In a company like Games Workshop, I would imagine that their biggest indirect costs must be the stores. In an environment where independent stores are floundering, why would GW maintain its own? Instead, moving that risk and cost outside the company, to distributors, would let GW cut costs, reduce risk, and spend capital on more direct-cost items.

As a world-wide leader in the industry, GW doesn't need to have its own stores in order to move their product. They already have the momentum those stores provided, but - at least here in the US - the solo-shops are not seeming to make money. If they are only a drain on GW's coffers, why not ax them and allow independent stores to fill the gap?

Well there goes me finishing my Tau army and building and armored IG army (I know mech IG but i like the tanks )

Like how can a cysis suit cost $30CAN!!!! Really? it sould be $20 max.

So for those who care, here's a quick breakdown of GW's revenues, cost of sales, and operating costs for the last five financial years.

Right below each amount, i dropped in the % change from one year to the next.

What we are seeing is that GW operating profits have not really been all that consistent over the years. While the net profits after tax have been smoothed out to look pretty on the financials, the operating profit is really a better measure of how their business is doing. And it looks like it's all over the place.

At the end of the day though, despite some great rebound from the recession in 2007, GW is not significantly ahead of their numbers in 2005. And - once again - these amounts are NOT taking inflation into account and NOT including price increases (which would artificially inflate revenue numbers).

Looking at expenses - one of the big "reasons" for price increases, we see that expenses have been fairly steadily decreasing since 2005. At the end of 2010, they were about 75% of what they were in 2005, despite increasing lead prices, and increasing oil costs.

Now GW has been closing stores, reducing staff to one person in many places. This would account for much of the reduced cost of sales. There has also been a consolidation of many back-office functions, but this would be reflected in Operating Costs, not in Cost of Sales.

However, even taking into account the store closings, the decrease in Cost of Sales during a period of rising material costs (oil and lead) would seem to imply that material costs are not a significant factor in Cost of Sales. That means that this material change - while helpful to GW's bottom line - will not significantly change the direct materials cost for figures. Also, it is an additional slap in the face as we watch GW adjust prices AGAIN to increase their revenue figures.

What this tells me is that the big cuts need to come from GW's indirect cost centers. They need to reexamine their sales structure, take a look at their 5-year plan to increase Hobby Center sales, and decide if Hobby Centers are really the future of their business, or if providing outside retailers, and ONLINE retailers with their products might not reduce costs and still drive the sales they desire.

If I were Tom Kirby, I wouldn't be lowering my salary or cutting my own benefits, but I'd be creating some explicit metrics for performance for each of my product lines, and taking a heavy cleaver to poorly performing products or segments.

Hobby Centers, I'm looking at you.

Scottywan82 wrote:
What this tells me is that the big cuts need to come from GW's indirect cost centers. They need to reexamine their sales structure, take a look at their 5-year plan to increase Hobby Center sales, and decide if Hobby Centers are really the future of their business, or if providing outside retailers, and ONLINE retailers with their products might not reduce costs and still drive the sales they desire.

If I were Tom Kirby, I wouldn't be lowering my salary or cutting my own benefits, but I'd be creating some explicit metrics for performance for each of my product lines, and taking a heavy cleaver to poorly performing products or segments.

Hobby Centers, I'm looking at you.

Thing is that the Stores are very valuable as a promotion tool, something whichs effectiveness is difficult to measure. Sure, if you only want to sell stuff, then Online stores are far more cost-effective. However, few people start the miniature hobby because they stumble upon it in the Internet.

Backfire wrote:

Thing is that the Stores are very valuable as a promotion tool, something whichs effectiveness is difficult to measure. Sure, if you only want to sell stuff, then Online stores are far more cost-effective. However, few people start the miniature hobby because they stumble upon it in the Internet.

I think what you're saying is true, but it largely applies to localities. There has never been a Games Workshop store within 200 miles of where I live. We however have a thriving Games-Workshop hobby community that on any given weekend there is a store within a half hour to forty five minute drive holding some kind of Warhammer event. I believe what Scottywan is proposing is shifting that job of hobby recruitment to Independent stores, which have more than just Games-Workshop products to rely on for facilitating profitability, and Games-Workshop becoming more like a distributor (while maintaining their website/direct sales of course), cutting their operating costs by reducing their own retail chain, which in theory would raise their net profit.

Well-run independent stores around the world have proved that they can (a) turn a profit, (b) support the hobby with tournaments, in-store gaming, modelling & painting support, new customer advice & assistance, etc., all the while with lower prices AND lower discounts than GW stores. So why does GW still have so many of its own retail stores that are failing at (a) or (b) or both?

moonshine wrote:That is a problem with price increases PEOPLE DON'T READ THE WHOLE THING. They see price increase and start to rant without reading the whole thing sounds like somthing an ork would do

Sorry, I have to ask, but how confident are you in your ability to understand what other people have or have not read?

I say this because you are totally wrong, and failed completely in your attempt to badmouth everyone that is upset about arbitrary price increases, by saying that they haven't read the whole thing.

Next time before posting I suggest you re-read your post, and consider all the myriad ways you are wrong, as well as the outrageous assumptions you make. Doing so may avoid making yourself seem stupid/ignorant/an ass.

derek wrote:

Backfire wrote:

Thing is that the Stores are very valuable as a promotion tool, something whichs effectiveness is difficult to measure. Sure, if you only want to sell stuff, then Online stores are far more cost-effective. However, few people start the miniature hobby because they stumble upon it in the Internet.

I think what you're saying is true, but it largely applies to localities. There has never been a Games Workshop store within 200 miles of where I live. We however have a thriving Games-Workshop hobby community that on any given weekend there is a store within a half hour to forty five minute drive holding some kind of Warhammer event. I believe what Scottywan is proposing is shifting that job of hobby recruitment to Independent stores, which have more than just Games-Workshop products to rely on for facilitating profitability, and Games-Workshop becoming more like a distributor (while maintaining their website/direct sales of course), cutting their operating costs by reducing their own retail chain, which in theory would raise their net profit.

This is seconded for me, i got into GW games back when there were no GW stores in the US and i did not see a GW store in person until i had been playing their games for well over a decade. my home area is about 350 miles from the nearest GW store and most likely always will be. i have a fair amount of local stores who deal in GW product. I believe (and have been personal told by a regional manager, back when they had them) that the local store is GW's best bet, they are local personal people who have a very personal vested interest in promoting these products. lets face it, its a great deal cheaper to provide a little support to a local retailer than it is to run a dedicated store, the same regional managers stance was the GW only opened stores where they felt they needed to promote their product due to a lack of local retailers. if this is the case they have a funny way of doing it.

GW ceased making any sense a great deal of time ago. When they were small and spunky and shipping chunks of lead across an ocean to me, their prices were a bit easier to take, but now with their modernized design and manufacturing process (which i know a bit about) their constant price increases, which really seem to outstrip inflation by a long shot are getting very intolerable if nothing else simply on principle. I am not adverse to paying a premium price for a premium product, or even paying a premium to help support my local store.

but i know when im being scr

ph34r wrote:

moonshine wrote:That is a problem with price increases PEOPLE DON'T READ THE WHOLE THING. They see price increase and start to rant without reading the whole thing sounds like somthing an ork would do

Sorry, I have to ask, but how confident are you in your ability to understand what other people have or have not read?

I say this because you are totally wrong, and failed completely in your attempt to badmouth everyone that is upset about arbitrary price increases, by saying that they haven't read the whole thing.

Next time before posting I suggest you re-read your post, and consider all the myriad ways you are wrong, as well as the outrageous assumptions you make. Doing so may avoid making yourself seem stupid/ignorant/an ass.

Nope my thing was about people moaning this thread has proved they do. I actually understood what I was talking about and I have made one rant because every price increase everybody else rants about it.

Wow! The stuff on that list is cheap!

Yup, I'm from Australia.

moonshine wrote:

ph34r wrote:

moonshine wrote:That is a problem with price increases PEOPLE DON'T READ THE WHOLE THING. They see price increase and start to rant without reading the whole thing sounds like somthing an ork would do

Sorry, I have to ask, but how confident are you in your ability to understand what other people have or have not read?

I say this because you are totally wrong, and failed completely in your attempt to badmouth everyone that is upset about arbitrary price increases, by saying that they haven't read the whole thing.

Next time before posting I suggest you re-read your post, and consider all the myriad ways you are wrong, as well as the outrageous assumptions you make. Doing so may avoid making yourself seem stupid/ignorant/an ass.

Nope my thing was about people moaning this thread has proved they do. I actually understood what I was talking about and I have made one rant because every price increase everybody else rants about it.

So when you said that nobody read the whole thing, and called everyone as dumb as an ork, what you REALLY meant to say was...

That you think everyone is moaning about this?



Sorry to be blunt, but you DO know that those are DIFFERENT things, right? As in, not the same concept. As in, you posted one thing and now insist that you posted something else.

No it is the same old tired out line of "I'm never playing agian lets boycote gw". It is like a broken record every price rise.

People in australia have somthing to moan about paying double the money for the same product is deffiantly wrong.

The people who live in the Uk and america etc.. It is going to cost about 4.50£ more in the UK for a 22.50£ box set which is about 7 us dollars. If you are going to get this upset about having to pay 7 dollars on average more then I would not check the price of gassoline every week. I guess it means you will have to buy less stuff or shop around a bit (heaven forbid)

Infact just of the top of my head here is an example of how to save some money :

You want 2 de khymera ?

You could buy them from gw for about 16£

or buy these for about 9£ http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/Wyrd-Miniatures/The-Neverborn/Waldgiest-2-pack-/prod_9291.html

It's really not hard to save money if you look around enough.

moonshine wrote:No it is the same old tired out line of "I'm never playing agian lets boycote gw". It is like a broken record every price rise.

People in australia have somthing to moan about paying double the money for the same product is deffiantly wrong.

The people who live in the Uk and america etc.. It is going to cost about 4.50£ more in the UK for a 22.50£ box set which is about 7 us dollars. If you are going to get this upset about having to pay 7 dollars on average more then I would not check the price of gassoline every week. I guess it means you will have to buy less stuff or shop around a bit (heaven forbid)

Infact just of the top of my head here is an example of how to save some money :

You want 2 de khymera ?

You could buy them from gw for about 16£

or buy these for about 9£ http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/Wyrd-Miniatures/The-Neverborn/Waldgiest-2-pack-/prod_9291.html

It's really not hard to save money if you look around enough.

Saving money with alternative minitures isnt the hard part.
Been allowed to play in GW stores and participating in tournaments with those minis are the problems.

No offense, moonshine, but have you not been paying attention to the news that in addition to this price change GW has also decided to prevent UK-based online stores (such as Wayland Games, the very store you just linked to) from shipping anywhere outside the UK or European Union?

Normally, yes, most of us would whine and moan and then grit our teeth and keep on buying. But now that GW is trying to strangle one of the few ways that we can get their products at a reasonable price while at the same time making it more difficult via making said products more expensive, people are starting to seriously get angry. Not just whiny, but legitimately angry. This goes double for folks down under, since now they've got next to no way to get GW items at anything other than obscene prices that are still going up.

It's not a matter of "Oh noes, another price change, everyone whine while doing nothing." It's a matter of finding out that one of the only reliable ways of getting GW miniatures at a decent price has disappeared at the exact same time that they chose to start squeezing us for even more money, even on products that haven't been out for a full month yet (i.e. Tomb Kings Army Book.)

Evilgnome wrote:Wow! The stuff on that list is cheap!

Yup, I'm from Australia.

Nice post

Although the price rise will not affect me personally as I won't be buying GW product, possibly not even second hand, I am saddened for younger players where the increase on retail prices may push the item beyond what is affordable.

I can't afford GW prices and maintain other interests. After all, sheer silk stockings and designer label basques don't grow on trees you know.

Can somebody please explain to me why Canadians pay more than Americans even though our dollar is stronger?

Flaming Troll wrote:Can somebody please explain to me why Canadians pay more than Americans even though our dollar is stronger?

Because GW is jealous of your moose, Australia's kangaroos and NZ's kiwis.

In all seriousness, it's because they can, and there's not much the consumers can do about it if they still want their Plague Marines.

moonshine wrote:No it is the same old tired out line of "I'm never playing agian lets boycote gw". It is like a broken record every price rise.

People in australia have somthing to moan about paying double the money for the same product is deffiantly wrong.

The people who live in the Uk and america etc.. It is going to cost about 4.50£ more in the UK for a 22.50£ box set which is about 7 us dollars. If you are going to get this upset about having to pay 7 dollars on average more then I would not check the price of gassoline every week. I guess it means you will have to buy less stuff or shop around a bit (heaven forbid)

Infact just of the top of my head here is an example of how to save some money :

You want 2 de khymera ?

You could buy them from gw for about 16£

or buy these for about 9£ http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/Wyrd-Miniatures/The-Neverborn/Waldgiest-2-pack-/prod_9291.html

It's really not hard to save money if you look around enough.

So you think that paying 15% more for the same product is okay and that people should stop complaining.
You think that because gas prices go up, that GW prices should do their best to inflate even harder.
You think that it's not a problem that GW items cost too much, because you can get 3rd party models instead.

Your spelling is absolutely atrocious. Your logic is terrible.

I'd guess you are either a ~13 year old, or you are in fact completely smashed off moonshine.


Please. Get better critical thinking skills, or just stop posting.


EDIT: Oh, and my favorite part is that you never explained your "you diden't read the whoel price ajustment!!11 lol orks" spiel. I'm going to go ahead and conclude that you are just drunk-posting.

i saw several 'they whine, they say they'll stop paying, and then they'll keep paying' posts through this whole tirade.

I can say quite nicely that I left paying for any GW product(apart from a few BL books and DoWII) for over two years now and i've been very happy for it.

I went to some different companies, who offer me (IMO) better product at a reasonable price, or at least if its not per capita less expensive than a GW model, there's certainly a lot less of them that i need to field. For instance, if i sold off my current 40k armies for HALF what i bought them for 2000-2007, that being a BT army, a guard army, and a sisters army, i could fund a dozen or more faction lists for a number of other gaming systems i play, of which the most prominent now are Dystopian Wars and Uncharted Seas. Infinity, Malifaux, Heavy Gear Blitz, Firestorm Armada and others are all right there as well. Heavy Gear not as much as the others, but i could create a decently playable force for much less than what i deem a 'decently playable force' for any GW game system.

Point being, i voted with my wallet long ago, and I enjoy seeing my chosen systems reap the benefit of a fall-off in GW-only players that GW's practices have acheived. Just a friendly note that there are plenty of us out there that have chosen other routes that don't involve GW anymore.

That being said, i am still sad its happening since GW products are the 'gateway game' into minis for my generation and the next, since they have the most exposure due to their stores, LGS stock, and the numerous video games that have popularized the setting. I still love the storyline and could still belt out hours and hours of old Imperium history(and used to at length to my dad on long car rides) but I have just found so many other systems that allow my dollar(or $500 even) to go soooooo much farther than it can with GW.

CPTPromotable wrote:
That being said, i am still sad its happening since GW products are the 'gateway game' into minis for my generation and the next, since they have the most exposure due to their stores, LGS stock, and the numerous video games that have popularized the setting. I still love the storyline and could still belt out hours and hours of old Imperium history(and used to at length to my dad on long car rides) but I have just found so many other systems that allow my dollar(or $500 even) to go soooooo much farther than it can with GW.

As a friend said to me in a discussion yesterday concerning the price changes:
'I have kind of longed for the day when I break off the mainstream'

And thanks to the latest price hikes, I think I can honestly say that I will NEVER buy a new in box product for any GW game (will all be purchased second hand, if at all).

GW is a great gateway game, however they would be an even greater gateway game if they weren't rising prices like it's a regular housekeeping task.

I was not sure which thread to post this, as it relates to the price increase, metal to resin, and not shipping outside EU. It occurred to me that GW probably planned to release all of the bad news on one day, rather than spread the news out over time. They may have figured it was like removing a bandaid. Just rip it off and get it done with, rather than have negative backlash with each separate announcement. It is important that the community not forget GWs actions for some time to come.

spaceelf wrote:I was not sure which thread to post this, as it relates to the price increase, metal to resin, and not shipping outside EU. It occurred to me that GW probably planned to release all of the bad news on one day, rather than spread the news out over time. They may have figured it was like removing a bandaid. Just rip it off and get it done with, rather than have negative backlash with each separate announcement. It is important that the community not forget GWs actions for some time to come.

Possible, but for many people it was the sum of the announcements that alienated them.
I know I would not have "quit" so quickly if it´d be only the prize rise (be it in general or the Finecast stuff) or only the southern hemisphere embargo.

It was the price increase up to 25% paired with the blow in the nads to our southern friends that lead me to the decision that GW is just not worth any "loyality" anymore.

ph34r wrote:So you think that paying 15% more for the same product is okay and that people should stop complaining.
You think that because gas prices go up, that GW prices should do their best to inflate even harder.
You think that it's not a problem that GW items cost too much, because you can get 3rd party models instead.

Your spelling is absolutely atrocious. Your logic is terrible.

I'd guess you are either a ~13 year old, or you are in fact completely smashed off moonshine.


Please. Get better critical thinking skills, or just stop posting.


EDIT: Oh, and my favorite part is that you never explained your "you diden't read the whoel price ajustment!!11 lol orks" spiel. I'm going to go ahead and conclude that you are just drunk-posting.

Out of mild curiosity, when was the last time you managed to post something without either A: Throwing at least one ad hominem, B: Making yourself look like a complete gakker, or C: A+B? Perhaps you should get better people skills - or just stop posting.

I'm not saying the Aussies shouldn't be downright insulted at this, but whats to stop you from just buying new off of Ebay and probably getting the same price you were before?

Drachii wrote:Out of mild curiosity, when was the last time you managed to post something without either A: Throwing at least one ad hominem, B: Making yourself look like a complete gakker, or C: A+B? Perhaps you should get better people skills - or just stop posting.

I tend to reserve criticism and insults for those particularly deserving of them. Moonshine is without a doubt, though that might be attributable to him being drunk while posting. Based on your post which ironically manages to snag a "C: A+B" on your scale, you are probably also deserving of scorn. What's your excuse?


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Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:I'm not saying the Aussies shouldn't be downright insulted at this, but whats to stop you from just buying new off of Ebay and probably getting the same price you were before?

Ebay will probably be the last viable source of reasonable priced models if the stores can't sell. Unfortunately Ebay stores don't have quite the quantity or customer service as online stores, nor do they often offer free or even reasonable shipping.

What's to stop a "Dakka Buddybuyers" system.

eg Aus member A has Britbuddy member X
Kiwi B has Britbuddy Y

A and B tell X and Y respectively what they want.
X and Y buy the goods via a discount store and send on the goodies to the Antipodes

Obviously X and Y have been recompensed via paypal
and a lot of trust is required so honest chaps on both sides is essential, and would work on a non-profit basis.
wait that means the system wouldn't work on Dakka as there just aren't enough altruistic good eggs here!

Just thinking of a way that could help out our beleaguered chums.

Sad, very sad.
But I have already obtained all the wyches and warriors i need
On the other hand WHY...WHY...why...

I don't see how hobby centers are making profit in all markets.

I see a FLGS as better options. Let someone else pay the cost of maintaining a bussiness, employees, physical presence. It's harder to control the direct message with the customer and it's they make less profit since the FLGS gets their cut.

it relates to the price increase, metal to resin, and not shipping outside EU. It occurred to me that GW probably planned to release all of the bad news on one day, rather than spread the news out over time. They may have figured it was like removing a bandaid.

I expressed this exact same general concept to some friends yesterday, figuring GW wanted to minimize the time-frame for outrage. By dumping four bits of really bad news all at once they simply overloaded and burned out the customer fury all at once.

DiscoVader wrote:No offense, moonshine, but have you not been paying attention to the news that in addition to this price change GW has also decided to prevent UK-based online stores (such as Wayland Games, the very store you just linked to) from shipping anywhere outside the UK or European Union?

Normally, yes, most of us would whine and moan and then grit our teeth and keep on buying. But now that GW is trying to strangle one of the few ways that we can get their products at a reasonable price while at the same time making it more difficult via making said products more expensive, people are starting to seriously get angry. Not just whiny, but legitimately angry. This goes double for folks down under, since now they've got next to no way to get GW items at anything other than obscene prices that are still going up.

It's not a matter of "Oh noes, another price change, everyone whine while doing nothing." It's a matter of finding out that one of the only reliable ways of getting GW miniatures at a decent price has disappeared at the exact same time that they chose to start squeezing us for even more money, even on products that haven't been out for a full month yet (i.e. Tomb Kings Army Book.)

I read the whole thing but this topic is about the price change


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ph34r wrote:

moonshine wrote:No it is the same old tired out line of "I'm never playing agian lets boycote gw". It is like a broken record every price rise.

People in australia have somthing to moan about paying double the money for the same product is deffiantly wrong.

The people who live in the Uk and america etc.. It is going to cost about 4.50£ more in the UK for a 22.50£ box set which is about 7 us dollars. If you are going to get this upset about having to pay 7 dollars on average more then I would not check the price of gassoline every week. I guess it means you will have to buy less stuff or shop around a bit (heaven forbid)

Infact just of the top of my head here is an example of how to save some money :

You want 2 de khymera ?

You could buy them from gw for about 16£

or buy these for about 9£ http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/Wyrd-Miniatures/The-Neverborn/Waldgiest-2-pack-/prod_9291.html


It's really not hard to save money if you look around enough.

So you think that paying 15% more for the same product is okay and that people should stop complaining.
You think that because gas prices go up, that GW prices should do their best to inflate even harder.
You think that it's not a problem that GW items cost too much, because you can get 3rd party models instead.

Your spelling is absolutely atrocious. Your logic is terrible.

I'd guess you are either a ~13 year old, or you are in fact completely smashed off moonshine.


Please. Get better critical thinking skills, or just stop posting.


EDIT: Oh, and my favorite part is that you never explained your "you diden't read the whoel price ajustment!!11 lol orks" spiel. I'm going to go ahead and conclude that you are just drunk-posting.

No I am saying that you can't have everything you want all the time,

Gw is not a charity it is a company and tries to get as much money of people as it can. It does provide a place to play the game and popularity menas there will be people to play against for at least the next decade.

Oh and by the way, if you insult people like a child it does not do anything to help prove you are more intelligent than the person you are arguing with.

ph34r wrote:

Drachii wrote:Out of mild curiosity, when was the last time you managed to post something without either A: Throwing at least one ad hominem, B: Making yourself look like a complete gakker, or C: A+B? Perhaps you should get better people skills - or just stop posting.

I tend to reserve criticism and insults for those particularly deserving of them.

Nice to see you attempt to establish criteria of 'deserving' before spewing bile at people. Did you miss Rule 1?

Based on your post which ironically manages to snag a "C: A+B" on your scale, you are probably also deserving of scorn. What's your excuse?

I don't think I need an excuse to call someone out when they're being overly odious. Oh, and to reach 'C' on my scale, I'd have to reach 'A'. Maybe your definition of ad hominem is different to mine.

I haven't really said anything about this topic because as with many others I just don't understand the logic. I realize I am not the main customer but I was sat looking at what I want to do gaming wise over the next 2 years (sorry, analyst/ accountant - cannot help it) and I decide that I am not starting a new army. This just doesn't sit well - the amount of money they require is past my thresehold.

I am a double income no kids and have a high disposable income - I could quite easily just walk into a shop and buy a new army tomorrow but this is starting to push past my cost verses worth. All my impulse decisions stopped a yr or two ago. Now my actually purchases have practically stopped.

The thing I don't understand is if I think like this as a DINK then why price products this high for parents who make purchasing on behalf of children - surely they face more income/ expense pressure than I.

I just don't get it.

This is pretty much the last straw for me. I haven't spent a dollar since the Battlescribe nonsense, but I had planned on finishing a Grey Knights army that I started. That's not going to happen now. I have a few things set aside at the FLGS which I will pick up, but other than that, there will be no more GW purchases from me.

The hardest part of this is there isn't any other games that I really like. FoW is cool, but noone plays here. I can't stand the look of PP's minis, and their prices are almost as bad as GWs. Mantic makes some cool stuff, but I'm not a huge Fantasy gamer. I have more than enough minis to last me for a long time, but I'd like to support a company that deserves my hard earned money. Maybe I should go back to painting random Reaper minis.

Aramus wrote:This is pretty much the last straw for me. I haven't spent a dollar since the Battlescribe nonsense, but I had planned on finishing a Grey Knights army that I started. That's not going to happen now. I have a few things set aside at the FLGS which I will pick up, but other than that, there will be no more GW purchases from me.

The hardest part of this is there isn't any other games that I really like. FoW is cool, but noone plays here. I can't stand the look of PP's minis, and their prices are almost as bad as GWs. Mantic makes some cool stuff, but I'm not a huge Fantasy gamer. I have more than enough minis to last me for a long time, but I'd like to support a company that deserves my hard earned money. Maybe I should go back to painting random Reaper minis.

You may already have heard of some of these but the thread on alternate games might still be helpful.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369662.page

One of the big benefits to playing a GW game is that, as the industry biggest seller, you can go to pretty much any active gaming scene and find someone to play. With the smaller game systems and lines, it may be up to you to generate that interest.

Backfire wrote:Thing is that the Stores are very valuable as a promotion tool, something whichs effectiveness is difficult to measure. Sure, if you only want to sell stuff, then Online stores are far more cost-effective. However, few people start the miniature hobby because they stumble upon it in the Internet.

This might be true in your area, but not so much in the US. In the most of the US, there IS no retail GW presence. It's the FLGS that does the share of bringing people into the hobby. The FLGS population in areas where GW *does* have a retail presence would pick up any lost revenue from new players.

Eric


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ph34r wrote:

moonshine wrote:That is a problem with price increases PEOPLE DON'T READ THE WHOLE THING. They see price increase and start to rant without reading the whole thing sounds like somthing an ork would do

Sorry, I have to ask, but how confident are you in your ability to understand what other people have or have not read?

I say this because you are totally wrong, and failed completely in your attempt to badmouth everyone that is upset about arbitrary price increases, by saying that they haven't read the whole thing.

Next time before posting I suggest you re-read your post, and consider all the myriad ways you are wrong, as well as the outrageous assumptions you make. Doing so may avoid making yourself seem stupid/ignorant/an ass.

Dammit, ph34r, STOP IT.
That's twice in two days' you've said something I totally agreed with and wanted to find a "like" button for.

Eric

OMG - has GW lost the plot. I went to my FLGS and they have been slapped with an order telling them they cannot offer RRP discounts that undercut them and a Ban on Retailers selling outside to Europe, Asia, US and Canada! Plus retailing certain items on the internet.

All this will do will force more of us onto Other gaming systems, I learn't of this the other day and nearly bought a Tomb Kings Army but instead moved into PP Warmachine.

WTF - It is bad news for Gamers Worldwide but i really feel sorry for Australian Gamers, they are going to get uber shafted by GW. Wayland Games must be miffed as well.

warboss wrote:

Aramus wrote:This is pretty much the last straw for me. I haven't spent a dollar since the Battlescribe nonsense, but I had planned on finishing a Grey Knights army that I started. That's not going to happen now. I have a few things set aside at the FLGS which I will pick up, but other than that, there will be no more GW purchases from me.

The hardest part of this is there isn't any other games that I really like. FoW is cool, but noone plays here. I can't stand the look of PP's minis, and their prices are almost as bad as GWs. Mantic makes some cool stuff, but I'm not a huge Fantasy gamer. I have more than enough minis to last me for a long time, but I'd like to support a company that deserves my hard earned money. Maybe I should go back to painting random Reaper minis.

You may already have heard of some of these but the thread on alternate games might still be helpful.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369662.page

One of the big benefits to playing a GW game is that, as the industry biggest seller, you can go to pretty much any active gaming scene and find someone to play. With the smaller game systems and lines, it may be up to you to generate that interest.

Hmmm, Firestorm Armada seems pretty cool (BFG is one of my favorite games) Anyone else play it?

As far as generating the interest...eh, I'm about burnt out on that. Been doing that for a while with 40k around here, I'd like a chance to just play something for a change.

Aramus wrote:Hmmm, Firestorm Armada seems pretty cool (BFG is one of my favorite games) Anyone else play it?

As far as generating the interest...eh, I'm about burnt out on that. Been doing that for a while with 40k around here, I'd like a chance to just play something for a change.

I haven't played it but I've heard good things about it second hand and both of the local stores I've been to recently have it in stock. I haven't gotten into a space combat game since B5 fleet action (and it was FASA starship combat a decade before that!).

The good news is that in most stores, you can simply plop down with two painted armies and people will stop to take a gander. I've outed some closet heavy gear collectors simply by running my little demos for friends before Deathwatch games. Also, selling a GW army at 40% off retail will still net you enough to get both a small to medium army for yourself and an OpFor.

BrassScorpion wrote: By dumping four bits of really bad news all at once they simply overloaded and burned out the customer fury all at once.

That is ... an unusual marketing strategy to win customers

Anyone thought of panic buying? then after the novelty buys (ooh shiny new finecast ill get one of those but only one) which follow the panic buying maybe a price drop to get the public generalized buying again.

Drachii wrote:Nice to see you attempt to establish criteria of 'deserving' before spewing bile at people. Did you miss Rule 1?

Perhaps you should ask yourself that same question

Drachii wrote:Oh, and to reach 'C' on my scale, I'd have to reach 'A'. Maybe your definition of ad hominem is different to mine.

Drachii wrote:Making yourself look like a complete gakker,

Drachii wrote:Perhaps you should get better people skills

Drachii wrote:ad hominem

Hahahaha, really grasping at straws here, hypocrite. Reported for trolling


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Alphacerberus wrote:Anyone thought of panic buying? then after the novelty buys (ooh shiny new finecast ill get one of those but only one) which follow the panic buying maybe a price drop to get the public generalized buying again.

GW would never lower prices. They're too set in their (horrible) ways. GW probably figures that every time they raise prices, people panic buy, and then a couple months later forget that things used to be cheaper and keep buying.


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Kroothawk wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote: By dumping four bits of really bad news all at once they simply overloaded and burned out the customer fury all at once.

That is ... an unusual marketing strategy to win customers

This way we can't focus on any single point of bad news at once! It's like each one is only 25% as bad as it would be!

Think of it as a reverse-wave system. We just got waves 1-4 all at once!

Yeah... I can't see an ad hominem in ph34r's post. I tried to find one - I really did - but at no point does he says "You're wrong ebecause you are stupid!". Instead he says "You're wrong and you're stupid!", and that's not an ad hominem.

It seems as if we've wandered a bit far afield here.

Can we all please get back on track, stay on topic, and leave the personal stuff out?

Thanks!

n0t_u wrote:

SkaerKrow wrote:I look forward to dancing on GW's grave.

Don't forget to set it on fire first.

Id do way more than dance on it.
Like I posted in a thread about more secret release dates, This makes me so glad I have Fully built Mech Guard. This is so stupid, do they think the people that play their games are loaded?

ph34r wrote:

moonshine wrote:No it is the same old tired out line of "I'm never playing agian lets boycote gw". It is like a broken record every price rise.

.....

It's really not hard to save money if you look around enough.

So you think that paying 15% more for the same product is okay and that people should stop complaining.
You think that because gas prices go up, that GW prices should do their best to inflate even harder.
You think that it's not a problem that GW items cost too much, because you can get 3rd party models instead.

Your spelling is absolutely atrocious. Your logic is terrible.

I'd guess you are either a ~13 year old, or you are in fact completely smashed off moonshine.


Please. Get better critical thinking skills, or just stop posting.


EDIT: Oh, and my favorite part is that you never explained your "you diden't read the whoel price ajustment!!11 lol orks" spiel. I'm going to go ahead and conclude that you are just drunk-posting.

I know I shouldn't say it, because it's a little unfair on Moonshine, but your post really did make me laugh... a rare occurrence in these dark times!

Pacific wrote:I know I shouldn't say it, because it's a little unfair on Moonshine, but your post really did make me laugh... a rare occurrence in these dark times!

Yeah. In reflection I think I may have been a bit harsh, but really, his solutions/excuses were pretty far out there. At least we got some laughs out of it

This price rise is going to hurt a lot more than the customers. It's going to destroy GW's retail operations worldwide - just give it time.

I genuinely feel for the US store staff that will fall short of unrealistic sales goals (they're already unrealistic) this year in the wake of these prices and lose their livelihoods after the corporate hacks show up and throw them out. GW is truly it's own worst enemy - this is almost like watching charlie sheen self destruct.

They've sued just about everyone they can, intimidated everyone else, raked their existing employees over the coals, fired masses of people, and shut out their customers from the hobby. Supreme arrogance is the only explanation here - this isn't mere survival - and if some sort of survival is sincerely the corporate motivation for such drastic acts, then GW as a company is already financially doomed.

It's very sad to see the hobby we all love come crashing down like this, and I am sure Kirby and his board figure they will ride this out - but the logistics of it are pretty simple: many people can no longer afford the hobby, and as this continues year after year, hand over fist, that will only lead to an eventual nonexistent consumer base with which the company can draw it's income. There are only so many people who can/will pay hundreds of dollars for a handful of plastic men when they have infinitely wiser options, even if said options are not as close to their hearts as the GW hobby once was.

There are so many other options for tabletop gaming, and many other kinds of gaming in general - much of it far, far more affordable than GW - and once a certain percentage of GW's loyalists get out of the market, there will be regret in that Nottingham boardroom when the effect that comes with it hits them hard. Kids will buy a starter set, if mom can afford it, but they'll generally never stay in the hobby - too expensive, the veterans are the ones that have the contagious passion that creates a gaming community. They're the ones that hang out at the LGS and help people pick out their new purchases and offer them tips for getting the most out of their armies. GW is going to get a fat slice of humble pie when they realize this.

As far as the "all the bad news at once" thing goes - Machiavelli wrote that cruelty should be dispensed all at once and kindness over time since people have short memories. It seems GW management reads "the Prince". : )

I genuinely feel for the US store staff that will fall short of unrealistic sales goals (they're already unrealistic) this year in the wake of these prices and lose their livelihoods after the corporate hacks show up and throw them out. GW is truly it's own worst enemy

I have also been concerned about that. I'm already making less impulse buys or purchases of large piles at once these days and the higher prices will cause further reductions. Many other hobby vets I know are also cutting back more since prices got so tough the past couple years. This is going to be a lot harder on the store staff for sure as they try to meet their monthly goals and earn associated bonuses.

GW seriously has "corporate kill-teams" that come out when their stores are underperforming. They will send out the regional manager, and then the guy above him, and they'll come to the store and rattle the manager's cage and/or fire him and have someone else in his spot within a few days. It's almost unreal how they treat their employees. I understand that low performance needs to be dealt with, but I feel for the guys that are already facing the hatchet and will be unemployed by mid-june due to this next price-hike.

EDIT: I just imagine myself in their place, maybe making a lot of good progress towards running a solid store, and then boom, this hits and customers bail on you and now you're telling your wife you're looking for work.

Really sucks.

I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

I'd also like to say, I think people really, really need to direct any ire towards upper management. I went into my local GW today and the manager has been fielding hate calls. Seriously???

He's a dude running a store, and a nice guy at that. Save the hate for where it belongs.... perhaps "corporate", but definitely not the shop runners. They're just doing their job.

I'll probably pick up the DE book this week, and check out the prices after the hike and see if I can stomach it. But if I were to start another army right now, I honestly think it'd be another GW... although I have picked up a Privateer Press force as another option, it's not the same quality of sculpts that I see from GW, not to mention all the extra options that I just take for granted on the sprues.

RiTides wrote:I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

I'd also like to say, I think people really, really need to direct any ire towards upper management. I went into my local GW today and the manager has been fielding hate calls. Seriously???

He's a dude running a store, and a nice guy at that. Save the hate for where it belongs.... perhaps "corporate", but definitely not the shop runners. They're just doing their job.

I'll probably pick up the DE book this week, and check out the prices after the hike and see if I can stomach it. But if I were to start another army right now, I honestly think it'd be another GW... although I have picked up a Privateer Press force as another option, it's not the same quality of sculpts that I see from GW, not to mention all the extra options that I just take for granted on the sprues.

I would really hope people wouldn't hate on the retail sales staff on the ground level, they're literally about as disillusioned as the rest of us - but they need to keep quiet to keep their jobs. What's terrible is the corporate hacks seriously have NO idea how it is to run a retail operation from the floor. They think their little store visits make them knowledgeable in this, but they fail across the board to understand how challenging it really is.

Really, people should be calling up GW corporate if they want to be heard, rattle the cages of those closest to the ears that matter.

I agree with RiTides about the prices for the new models.

However, how can we justify the older models also being higher in price?

I feel bad for everyone being affected by GWs four pronged attack on it's customers. That being said, there is at least one GW employee that I feel really bad for.

That dubious honor goes to the poor schmuck/s that that get to run/work at the new GW store opening here in sunny Arizona... in June.

Reasons I feel bad... 1- It's AZ, so naturally it's hot.

2- GW stores have done poorly here in the states even in good times... from what I understand.

3- Could they have chosen a worse time to open a store? anywhere?

4- Yeah... it's hot. I know I already mentioned it, but I felt it could be said again. Anyone ever cooked eggs on the sidewalk? It's been done here. And it's summer.

5- All of the fresh about nerd rage going around, it's going to be one hell of a rough opening. Poor Bastards.

Do we have any historical price rise information over the last 3 years? It seems like there have been astronomical price rises these past few years, after nearly a decade of relative stagnation.

Is this the case?

One of the major reasons Australia is paying so much more than they should for GW products is because of the disparity between the exchange rate of the Australian Dollar with the British pound vs. their comparative PPP rates.

International companies use the PPP rates from the IMF (Purchasing Power Parity) to set prices in other countries so they can avoid the volitility of currency exchanges. In theory the PPP, which is set by long term GDP figures and comparitive currency exchange rates over long periods of time, will lead to a more stable exchange rate. So items in different countries should end up being similar in value from one country to another. However in practice that doesn't always work, and in the short term it can lead to some inequities.

I'd bet that in 2007 prices weren't so out of whack in Australia. But in the 4 years since 2007 the value of the Australian Dollar compared to the British pound has nearly doubled. But in that same time period the PPP's have barely budged.

The 2010 PPP for the UK compared to the US Dollar was .64, (.64 Pounds to the US Dollar) Australia's was 1.61. So the PPP conversion between them ends up around 2.5, and so theoretically goods worth 1 British Pound would be equal in value to 2.5 Australian Dollars. However, currently 1 British Pound is really only worth 1.52 Australian Dollars.

So according to that PPP conversion rate, Assault on Black Reach that costs 56.50 Pounds in the UK should cost 141.25 Dollars in Australia. That is very close to what GW charges. And since the PPP doesn't take into account shipping costs in it's calculations, tack on another $9Aus for shipping costs and you end up with the GW price of $150.00 Aus.

However, in actuality the value of Assault on Black Reach due to current comparative currency exchange values is really only $85.88 Aus. $85.88 vs $150.00, you're paying almost double. And Australia isn't the only country to suffer from this kind of pricing idiocy, New Zealand and much of Asia is out of whack with Europe where PPP vs Currency is concerned.

There are a lot of calls for the IMF to introduce a new system, but change is slow and for now most companies and countries will take stability over accuracy.

So GW isn't really to blame, at least not solely to blame. The relative newness of Global trade and international pricing are really at fault, and this is one of the flaws in the current system.

I hope this helps to make sense of the situation, and that this doesn't lead to any arguements.

RiTides wrote:I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

It's interesting that you mention that; were it not for the upcoming DE releases, I would have no trouble swearing off GW products cold turkey. That said, I personally find the entire DE range, up to and including the new releases, to be an exception to the prevailing aesthetic of GW's releases, rather then a continuation of them, so after they are finished...

Beyond that, and I would tie this into what the fellows on Beasts of War were saying, there really are a lot of amazing lines out there; while I love Warmachine/Horde rules, I will freely admit they are behind GW's standards in rules. Infinity, on the other hand... I would say that the DE releases are the only GW offerings that even come close to the quality of the overall Infinity range.

Buzzsaw wrote:

RiTides wrote:I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

It's interesting that you mention that; were it not for the upcoming DE releases, I would have no trouble swearing off GW products cold turkey. That said, I personally find the entire DE range, up to and including the new releases, to be an exception to the prevailing aesthetic of GW's releases, rather then a continuation of them, so after they are finished...

Beyond that, and I would tie this into what the fellows on Beasts of War were saying, there really are a lot of amazing lines out there; while I love Warmachine/Horde rules, I will freely admit they are behind GW's standards in rules. Infinity, on the other hand... I would say that the DE releases are the only GW offerings that even come close to the quality of the overall Infinity range.

How easy is it to find Infinity stuff in the US? I pretty much only see GW and PP in stores.

dariakus wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:

RiTides wrote:I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

It's interesting that you mention that; were it not for the upcoming DE releases, I would have no trouble swearing off GW products cold turkey. That said, I personally find the entire DE range, up to and including the new releases, to be an exception to the prevailing aesthetic of GW's releases, rather then a continuation of them, so after they are finished...

Beyond that, and I would tie this into what the fellows on Beasts of War were saying, there really are a lot of amazing lines out there; while I love Warmachine/Horde rules, I will freely admit they are behind GW's standards in rules. Infinity, on the other hand... I would say that the DE releases are the only GW offerings that even come close to the quality of the overall Infinity range.

How easy is it to find Infinity stuff in the US? I pretty much only see GW and PP in stores.

The Warstore carries pretty much the whole range (at 20% off); but shops can certainly get it. My local is mostly a comic shop, and he orders through Alliance/Diamond... which has some problems, to be honest. If you local is having trouble finding it through their suppliers, the Warstore supplies retailers as well.

The biggest problem with Infinity is that it's new, and is in the early stages of growth; I recommend downloading the quick-start rules, proxying some models and seeing if you like the game (or buying the beautiful models for use in other games, whatever suits your fancy). The best thing to do is to be an advocate for the game, that's the only way to see more of it in the states.

SabrX wrote:Sighh... I remember the good ol' days when AoBR cost $60.

WHAT! I just got into 40k this December (and then out again in March to play Malifaux--sidenote, all you ship-jumpers: Get a box of Mx!), and anyway, WHAT! AOBR used to cost $60? And now it's...$100. And when did it first come out? 2008?

Neffertech wrote:One of the major reasons Australia is paying so much more than they should for GW products is because of the disparity between the exchange rate of the Australian Dollar with the British pound vs. their comparative PPP rates.

International companies use the PPP rates from the IMF (Purchasing Power Parity) to set prices in other countries so they can avoid the volitility of currency exchanges. In theory the PPP, which is set by long term GDP figures and comparitive currency exchange rates over long periods of time, will lead to a more stable exchange rate. So items in different countries should end up being similar in value from one country to another. However in practice that doesn't always work, and in the short term it can lead to some inequities.

I'd bet that in 2007 prices weren't so out of whack in Australia. But in the 4 years since 2007 the value of the Australian Dollar compared to the British pound has nearly doubled. But in that same time period the PPP's have barely budged.

The 2010 PPP for the UK compared to the US Dollar was .64, (.64 Pounds to the US Dollar) Australia's was 1.61. So the PPP conversion between them ends up around 2.5, and so theoretically goods worth 1 British Pound would be equal in value to 2.5 Australian Dollars. However, currently 1 British Pound is really only worth 1.52 Australian Dollars.

So according to that PPP conversion rate, Assault on Black Reach that costs 56.50 Pounds in the UK should cost 141.25 Dollars in Australia. That is very close to what GW charges. And since the PPP doesn't take into account shipping costs in it's calculations, tack on another $9Aus for shipping costs and you end up with the GW price of $150.00 Aus.

However, in actuality the value of Assault on Black Reach due to current comparative currency exchange values is really only $85.88 Aus. $85.88 vs $150.00, you're paying almost double. And Australia isn't the only country to suffer from this kind of pricing idiocy, New Zealand and much of Asia is out of whack with Europe where PPP vs Currency is concerned.

There are a lot of calls for the IMF to introduce a new system, but change is slow and for now most companies and countries will take stability over accuracy.

So GW isn't really to blame, at least not solely to blame. The relative newness of Global trade and international pricing are really at fault, and this is one of the flaws in the current system.

I hope this helps to make sense of the situation, and that this doesn't lead to any arguements.

Worth Repeating. Tried explaining this in another forum, but the nerd rage from the Southern Hemisphere Blockade, Resin Switch, Price Increase drowned it out.

BrassScorpion wrote:

I genuinely feel for the US store staff that will fall short of unrealistic sales goals (they're already unrealistic) this year in the wake of these prices and lose their livelihoods after the corporate hacks show up and throw them out. GW is truly it's own worst enemy

I have also been concerned about that. I'm already making less impulse buys or purchases of large piles at once these days and the higher prices will cause further reductions. Many other hobby vets I know are also cutting back more since prices got so tough the past couple years. This is going to be a lot harder on the store staff for sure as they try to meet their monthly goals and earn associated bonuses.

I really sympathise with their store employees. They are hamstrung by corporate policy. The only bright spot is that they may beat this month's goal because people are buying stuff prior to the price increase and switch to resin.

Thrax wrote:
GW seriously has "corporate kill-teams" that come out when their stores are underperforming. They will send out the regional manager, and then the guy above him, and they'll come to the store and rattle the manager's cage and/or fire him and have someone else in his spot within a few days. It's almost unreal how they treat their employees. I understand that low performance needs to be dealt with, but I feel for the guys that are already facing the hatchet and will be unemployed by mid-june due to this next price-hike.

EDIT: I just imagine myself in their place, maybe making a lot of good progress towards running a solid store, and then boom, this hits and customers bail on you and now you're telling your wife you're looking for work.

The way GW treats its employees disgusts me. Although a store needs to be properly managed, there are many other factors that determine its success. Most stores boost business by advertising and by having sales. Unfortunately these factors are out of the hands of the store manager.

As an aside, I checked the GAW share price.
It slumped in January, but has picked upback.

It spiked on the 18th May but has settled back down to 422.5 at the time of writing.

At least the investors seem happy with all the news this week.

I am a bit lost with all the shennanigans but what happened on the 18th?

sorry to take this OT but was just not sure if it is worth a whole new thread, was curious if the spike coincided with the price increase announcement. Will start new thread if OP/Mods object to this being here.

ph34r wrote:

Pacific wrote:I know I shouldn't say it, because it's a little unfair on Moonshine, but your post really did make me laugh... a rare occurrence in these dark times!

Yeah. In reflection I think I may have been a bit harsh, but really, his solutions/excuses were pretty far out there. At least we got some laughs out of it

When you know everything about model making on a mass scale and you know everything about buissnes then you can say your opinons are more right than everyone elses. Nobody actually knows gw's buissnes plan or what is happening behind there closed doors so it is all well and good saying what you think they should do but without all the knowledg then your ideas could be a pretty bad move.

Read there strat

http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FinalFullYearReport.pdf


They don't care. They have doubled their return on capital through price raising and cost reduction plans. If we keep buying, nothing will change. They have a solid business plan and performance. Their stock went up 2% yesterday. Crazy.... Just so sad

The share price picked up in April due to the announcement of dividends.

Managed to find a couple of reviews about GAW shares.
They were predictibly far removed from the events of this week and oblivious that sales could be hit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/marketforceslive/2011/apr/08/games-workshop-gains

http://www.stockopedia.co.uk/content/games-workshop-undervalued-55829/
It is hard to believe it is the same company that has the fanbase so riled.

One thing that's been interesting to me is to watch the near non-existent sales of the few elite "Special" troops for Fantasy Battle the past few years that cost $41.25 US for 10 models. I hardly see any of these built or used in games I would presume mostly because of the high cost. This includes Greatswords, Bestigor and more recently Tomb Guard. Now all the elite "Special" troops that currently cost $33 are being increased 25%(!) to $41.25. Given the lackluster sales of the existing $41.25 sets one may have been inclined to think there could be a shift downward on the price of those sets or at least no more new sets introduced at that price. The idea that so many sets will be at that price point and still sell seems ludicrous. When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

BrassScorpion wrote:When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

Hey my brother has one with 40 greatswords..........all metal bought at a gamesday bargain bin just before they released the plastics. Heh heh heh

BrassScorpion wrote:One thing that's been interesting to me is to watch the near non-existent sales of the few elite "Special" troops for Fantasy Battle the past few years that cost $41.25 US for 10 models. I hardly see any of these built or used in games I would presume mostly because of the high cost. This includes Greatswords, Bestigor and more recently Tomb Guard. Now all the elite "Special" troops that currently cost $33 are being increased 25%(!) to $41.25. Given the lackluster sales of the existing $41.25 sets one may have been inclined to think there could be a shift downward on the price of those sets or at least no more new sets introduced at that price. The idea that so many sets will be at that price point and still sell seems ludicrous. When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

Between the price rises and 8th edition rules I think that Fantasy is dead. It is just too costly to start an army. The new TK battalion has approximately 450 points worth of models for 120 USD. So to get a 2000 point army you are looking at spending at least 480 bucks. The new stuff is not selling, and people are not playing as much. Case in point, there were only four Fantasy players on hand for the grand opening of the battle bunker in Maryland.

BrassScorpion wrote:One thing that's been interesting to me is to watch the near non-existent sales of the few elite "Special" troops for Fantasy Battle the past few years that cost $41.25 US for 10 models. I hardly see any of these built or used in games I would presume mostly because of the high cost. This includes Greatswords, Bestigor and more recently Tomb Guard. Now all the elite "Special" troops that currently cost $33 are being increased 25%(!) to $41.25. Given the lackluster sales of the existing $41.25 sets one may have been inclined to think there could be a shift downward on the price of those sets or at least no more new sets introduced at that price. The idea that so many sets will be at that price point and still sell seems ludicrous. When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

GW thinks they're an *IDEAL* candidate!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=10100033a&_requestid=3588165

Expect Dark Eldar prices to be "adjusted" next year.

You guys honestly believe DE price is this "low" because GW want to make it fair pricing for us?

No, its to gain momentum from introducing DE back to us after the long absence.

That's fine with me, LunaHound... by this time next year, I'll have all the DE I'll want/need (just saying...). Might as well buy where the quality is highest and price is the most reasonable, right?

I agree with BrassScorpion about the fantasy elite units for over $40 for 10 small models... I haven't bitten on any either, and I generally see people just not fielding these if they didn't already have them.

spaceelf wrote: Case in point, there were only four Fantasy players on hand for the grand opening of the battle bunker in Maryland.

Well, there were at least 5- I currently only play fantasy (will be starting 40k again with dark eldar) but didn't have my army with me... but yes, in our area fantasy is less popular.

However, the Columbia GW store has a strong fantasy contingent... mostly people who have played it for a long time, though (even though I personally have not).

RiTides wrote:That's fine with me, LunaHound... by this time next year, I'll have all the DE I'll want/need (just saying...). Might as well buy where the quality is highest and price is the most reasonable, right?

I agree with BrassScorpion about the fantasy elite units for over $40 for 10 small models... I haven't bitten on any either, and I generally see people just not fielding these if they didn't already have them.

spaceelf wrote: Case in point, there were only four Fantasy players on hand for the grand opening of the battle bunker in Maryland.

Well, there were at least 5- I currently only play fantasy (will be starting 40k again with dark eldar) but didn't have my army with me... but yes, in our area fantasy is less popular.

However, the Columbia GW store has a strong fantasy contingent... mostly people who have played it for a long time, though (even though I personally have not).

Yes right now its very good time to purchase Dark Eldar, however i feel that IF i continue to get into warhammer armies, im contributing to GW/s sucess at ripping us off.
Its like GW does ONE thing that is good, out of 10 , should i still bother with them knowing they'll continue to treat us badly in the future and beyond?

I dunno , the compulsive buying is tugging at me :'<

Well, I long ago resigned that I don't like their corporate practices... but then, I don't like Microsoft's corporate practices, but I have an Xbox.

More to the point, I usually buy locally, and I'm supporting my local hobby scene and store. One of the stores is a GW, one is an independent, and I game at both.

So from that perspective, I don't mind supporting them... and with those incredible models I'm actually quite happy to! If it's not worth it to me, I won't... but these models (DE) make it well worth it at their current price- it is quite good.

Might as well, anyone that wants to use it go for it, spread the word.

spaceelf wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:One thing that's been interesting to me is to watch the near non-existent sales of the few elite "Special" troops for Fantasy Battle the past few years that cost $41.25 US for 10 models. I hardly see any of these built or used in games I would presume mostly because of the high cost. This includes Greatswords, Bestigor and more recently Tomb Guard. Now all the elite "Special" troops that currently cost $33 are being increased 25%(!) to $41.25. Given the lackluster sales of the existing $41.25 sets one may have been inclined to think there could be a shift downward on the price of those sets or at least no more new sets introduced at that price. The idea that so many sets will be at that price point and still sell seems ludicrous. When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

Between the price rises and 8th edition rules I think that Fantasy is dead. It is just too costly to start an army. The new TK battalion has approximately 450 points worth of models for 120 USD. So to get a 2000 point army you are looking at spending at least 480 bucks. The new stuff is not selling, and people are not playing as much. Case in point, there were only four Fantasy players on hand for the grand opening of the battle bunker in Maryland.

For giggles I priced my 2000pt skaven army at MSRP (Pre-price hike, pre-tax) with no basing or paints, and the models come out to $775. It's a pretty tough sell when you are trying to get people interested/back into the game.

I'm rather indifferent. But I'm on a personal moratorium anyway due to family issues.

I'll unfortunately be one of the vultures circling when people start selling off their stuff though.

NELS1031 wrote:

Neffertech wrote:One of the major reasons Australia is paying so much more than they should for GW products is because of the disparity between the exchange rate of the Australian Dollar with the British pound vs. their comparative PPP rates.

International companies use the PPP rates from the IMF (Purchasing Power Parity) to set prices in other countries so they can avoid the volitility of currency exchanges. In theory the PPP, which is set by long term GDP figures and comparitive currency exchange rates over long periods of time, will lead to a more stable exchange rate. So items in different countries should end up being similar in value from one country to another. However in practice that doesn't always work, and in the short term it can lead to some inequities.

I'd bet that in 2007 prices weren't so out of whack in Australia. But in the 4 years since 2007 the value of the Australian Dollar compared to the British pound has nearly doubled. But in that same time period the PPP's have barely budged.

The 2010 PPP for the UK compared to the US Dollar was .64, (.64 Pounds to the US Dollar) Australia's was 1.61. So the PPP conversion between them ends up around 2.5, and so theoretically goods worth 1 British Pound would be equal in value to 2.5 Australian Dollars. However, currently 1 British Pound is really only worth 1.52 Australian Dollars.

So according to that PPP conversion rate, Assault on Black Reach that costs 56.50 Pounds in the UK should cost 141.25 Dollars in Australia. That is very close to what GW charges. And since the PPP doesn't take into account shipping costs in it's calculations, tack on another $9Aus for shipping costs and you end up with the GW price of $150.00 Aus.

However, in actuality the value of Assault on Black Reach due to current comparative currency exchange values is really only $85.88 Aus. $85.88 vs $150.00, you're paying almost double. And Australia isn't the only country to suffer from this kind of pricing idiocy, New Zealand and much of Asia is out of whack with Europe where PPP vs Currency is concerned.

There are a lot of calls for the IMF to introduce a new system, but change is slow and for now most companies and countries will take stability over accuracy.

So GW isn't really to blame, at least not solely to blame. The relative newness of Global trade and international pricing are really at fault, and this is one of the flaws in the current system.

I hope this helps to make sense of the situation, and that this doesn't lead to any arguements.

Worth Repeating. Tried explaining this in another forum, but the nerd rage from the Southern Hemisphere Blockade, Resin Switch, Price Increase drowned it out.

Oh, wow, realy? I cant beleive you wrote that with a straight face.

PPP is a calculation used to normalise the relitive wealth in diferent countrys. The reason this is needed is because the cost of living varries from country to country and tend to remain stable regardless of currency changes, i.e an apple grown and sold in Australia will remain the same price regardless of currency exchange rate.

However GW models are an imported item made in a different country... which only has a small import tax on it...

Changing exchange rates makes it cheeper to import and more expensive to export. The value of PPP has no bearing on the price of imported items.

Thanks GW, as if the metal to resin price wasn't enough to stop me buyin well this has.

Seems my High Elves wont be arrodable to finish.

Has an australian price list leaked yet?

I love finding ways around giving GW any of my money. The only thing I have to pay full retail price for is ForgeWorld. There are already so many items that I would NEVER pay full price for. This list has increased the number of items I will never buy direct from GW by about 50%. I would love to see GW get put back in their place. I can't wait to see GWs closing all over and independent retailers rise once again! If the prices weren't so ridiculous, I would buy 3 times as many armies as I own right now. I've wanted to play Fantasy since I was a kid, but I can barely afford to play 40k in a decent manner. If the prices were lower, I would own Daemons, Warriors, Skaven, and Wood Elves armies. I refuse to pay the price of admission. I just got into Apocalypse with visions of Greater Brass Scorpions and Legit Warhound Titans. There is no way I am going to buy into Fantasy. I have a PS3 and 3DS to feed as well. That's right; other interests in this world besides Warhammer.

I would love to see some organized criminal action take place against GW. Like one day we all drive trucks through our local GWs. Not to steal....just to make a statement. One giant Astronomican sized F U to GW. Let's just boycott the bitches. I have enough Warhammer crap to last me a good year or so without buying new stuff. I would love to have a hand in holding GWs head under water for a while.

The real kick in the teeth is Canadian's pay more when our dollar is on par with the US if not better at times.