hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really Hope there is a flower that can deliver Battlesuits into well, battle.

I see somebody may have been watching Gundam lately.
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/La_Vie_en_Rose

 JOHIRA wrote:
Then if I were them, the last weapon I would deploy to fight great hordes of gribbly chitinous death would be a slow, lumbering, difficult-to-transport ground-based super-heavy that can be easily overwhelmed by massed infantry.

There is nothing a giant robot can do that other vehicles can't do better. Aside from looking like a humanoid, which is something that can be a concern to Imperials, Chaos, Orcs, and Eldar but really should not be part of the Tau design. Small mobile infantry suits- makes perfect sense. Giant robots that serve no purpose other than looking cool?

True, but I can see the Tau going for a Mobile Armor-style approach: large, yet taking advantage of the large size to deck the thing out with powerful thrusters, shields, and weapons. It doesn't have to be slow and lumbering, skimmer or even flyer battlesuits would easily be possible with Tau technology.

I don't see why Tau wouldn't have something like a Dreadknight or War Walker. Larger than a Battlesuit and just as manoeuvrable.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:






Poppycock.
warriors and immortals not only lost *some* stuff but they got a helluvalot cheaper, too. per point they're way more effective now: no, that resorb tax works out at less than 3 pts per model on a 20 model unit and that lord has more uses than just that res orb!), have you even *tried* using ghost arks (I don't, myself but I've seen it combined with large blob units to great effect) with your warriors? obviously not, from your statements.
I don't think I said pariahs=lychguard; I just said that's what they'd Counts-As for. If you'd have cared to read even halfway closely you'll see I mentioned them as a disappointment, with destroyers the only nerf.
Monoliths not good? I see you haven't played either with or against them, obviously. they work *just* fine. Differently, yes. Which is good, last codex they were just annoying. Not even that good, just a *(&*()^ to take out.
if you can't make scarabs work you suck at the psychological warfare aspect of the game; they present a disproportionate threat for the points they cost, and dealing with them takes time. No, if your opponent manages to get his flamer troops right up to them before they inflict some harm either he expended significant resources not doing anything more useful, or you're just incompetent
Wraiths might not resurrect but they're even better for the points than they were so again, tiny, tiny violin

Basically, the old codex **sucked** as for fun-to-play either with OR against.
...so yeah, playstyles changed. For the better, mostly, but yeah you have to adapt. once you do that though, **all** those units, except for destroyers and to a lesser degree your old pariahs, make for useful, effective and potentially tier 1 competitive choices. *maybe* not scarabs, but everything else? Hell yeah.

And about those warriors: I like tough troops better, as well so I play immortals too but I can see loads of uses for those warriors and as soon as my first 2K pts list is done, those 40 warriors I still have lying around which I painted as an, I believe, 12 or 13 year old kid when they first came out will hit the brake fluid right quick - I've seen them used to great effect; it just takes a *little* more tactical thinking than just "advance all, and fire at anything that looks squishy" which was all the previous codex *could* do.

wow. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about only after successfully playing Necrons for the last 12+ years. Or I do and mostly what you've said is crap. Scarabs a psychological threat against what the non existent plethora of vehicles or the flyers they can't hit? Are warriors useful? Yes to be cheap and sit on an objective. 20 blob squad warriors with an ark. The ark just gets blown up then opponents kill the warriors. God forbid an opponent gets close to warriors and they are swept faster than anything else in the game. The cost of 1 res orb Per warrior in a 20 man squad is 7.75 with no other options because you at least have to purchase an overlord for th RC then attach the lord with orb to the squad. That cost vastly increases as you arm both models with useful equipment and you can slightly of set the cost do the Overlord as you spread it across more lords in more squads but in the end it cost about as much as they did in 3rd edition and you get a weaker Armour save.

So since the new codex got released all your overlords do is unlock royal courts, you do not utilize terrain to any effect and finally, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of vehicles with other types than "flyer"?
I now understand why you have a hard time winning - sheesh...

No I have no trouble winning. I have a great record and one of the more feared non-cron air Necron lists out there. I do it witout relying on the obsolete nerfed units from the 3rd edition codex. Your assessment of the effectiveness of Necron units is just very off.

ergo: you saw them, didn't like them, and discarded them. Right?
'Cause I've seen those so-called "nerfed" units used to great effect -- by plenty of folks. Just not the numbskulls who pretend they're still in 3rd...

No, he uses them, just not as much as he use to. They fall to my Tau, rather quickly even. The newer units will handily beat my Tau. They are not better, and are likely worse for the cost than their previous incarnation. Newer units are better, but not so much better that old units are completely unplayable, just not optimal.

 Bolognesus wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:






Poppycock.
warriors and immortals not only lost *some* stuff but they got a helluvalot cheaper, too. per point they're way more effective now: no, that resorb tax works out at less than 3 pts per model on a 20 model unit and that lord has more uses than just that res orb!), have you even *tried* using ghost arks (I don't, myself but I've seen it combined with large blob units to great effect) with your warriors? obviously not, from your statements.
I don't think I said pariahs=lychguard; I just said that's what they'd Counts-As for. If you'd have cared to read even halfway closely you'll see I mentioned them as a disappointment, with destroyers the only nerf.
Monoliths not good? I see you haven't played either with or against them, obviously. they work *just* fine. Differently, yes. Which is good, last codex they were just annoying. Not even that good, just a *(&*()^ to take out.
if you can't make scarabs work you suck at the psychological warfare aspect of the game; they present a disproportionate threat for the points they cost, and dealing with them takes time. No, if your opponent manages to get his flamer troops right up to them before they inflict some harm either he expended significant resources not doing anything more useful, or you're just incompetent
Wraiths might not resurrect but they're even better for the points than they were so again, tiny, tiny violin

Basically, the old codex **sucked** as for fun-to-play either with OR against.
...so yeah, playstyles changed. For the better, mostly, but yeah you have to adapt. once you do that though, **all** those units, except for destroyers and to a lesser degree your old pariahs, make for useful, effective and potentially tier 1 competitive choices. *maybe* not scarabs, but everything else? Hell yeah.

And about those warriors: I like tough troops better, as well so I play immortals too but I can see loads of uses for those warriors and as soon as my first 2K pts list is done, those 40 warriors I still have lying around which I painted as an, I believe, 12 or 13 year old kid when they first came out will hit the brake fluid right quick - I've seen them used to great effect; it just takes a *little* more tactical thinking than just "advance all, and fire at anything that looks squishy" which was all the previous codex *could* do.

wow. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about only after successfully playing Necrons for the last 12+ years. Or I do and mostly what you've said is crap. Scarabs a psychological threat against what the non existent plethora of vehicles or the flyers they can't hit? Are warriors useful? Yes to be cheap and sit on an objective. 20 blob squad warriors with an ark. The ark just gets blown up then opponents kill the warriors. God forbid an opponent gets close to warriors and they are swept faster than anything else in the game. The cost of 1 res orb Per warrior in a 20 man squad is 7.75 with no other options because you at least have to purchase an overlord for th RC then attach the lord with orb to the squad. That cost vastly increases as you arm both models with useful equipment and you can slightly of set the cost do the Overlord as you spread it across more lords in more squads but in the end it cost about as much as they did in 3rd edition and you get a weaker Armour save.

So since the new codex got released all your overlords do is unlock royal courts, you do not utilize terrain to any effect and finally, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of vehicles with other types than "flyer"?
I now understand why you have a hard time winning - sheesh...

No I have no trouble winning. I have a great record and one of the more feared non-cron air Necron lists out there. I do it witout relying on the obsolete nerfed units from the 3rd edition codex. Your assessment of the effectiveness of Necron units is just very off.

ergo: you saw them, didn't like them, and discarded them. Right?
'Cause I've seen those so-called "nerfed" units used to great effect -- by plenty of folks. Just not the numbskulls who pretend they're still in 3rd...

You got me. I don't have 3+ bags full of 4 Monoliths, 3 C'tan, 9 destroyers, 40 scarabs, 70+ warriors, 20 flayed ones, and 10 Pariahs. Because I dumped my beautifully painted army of 12+ years. Or check my signature and do the math then guess if that is right or not.

Oh wow, cool. A quote chain about Necrons, in a thread about Tau? Brilliant.

 Just Dave wrote:
Oh wow, cool. A quote chain about Necrons, in a thread about Tau? Brilliant.

They're much harder to delete from my iPad.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:
Oh wow, cool. A quote chain about Necrons, in a thread about Tau? Brilliant.

They're much harder to delete from my iPad.

You could just stay on topic instead?

Wow, the more rumors I hear about the Tau, the less I want to play them. I just hope they don't get the CSM treatment and get their 4th ed codex with 6th ed tacked on.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:
Oh wow, cool. A quote chain about Necrons, in a thread about Tau? Brilliant.

They're much harder to delete from my iPad.

That is what the "Ignore" function is for.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
Wow, the more rumors I hear about the Tau, the less I want to play them. I just hope they don't get the CSM treatment and get their 4th ed codex with 6th ed tacked on.

Yes I agree. While a fairer approach, the Chaos codex doesn't help to compensate for the over the top elements from, GK, Blood Angels, Necrons, etc...

LOUD NOISES!

So does anyone actually have any rumours about the Tau, apart from the usual "there MIGHT be a codex released early next year?" and "they have this really cool new feature, there's a lion one, and a dinosaur one, and three other animal ones and they combine to make some giant robot thing, a "megazord" if you will"

 NecronLord3 wrote:
You got me. I don't have 3+ bags full of 4 Monoliths, 3 C'tan, 9 destroyers, 40 scarabs, 70+ warriors, 20 flayed ones, and 10 Pariahs. Because I dumped my beautifully painted army of 12+ years. Or check my signature and do the math then guess if that is right or not.

As I said, there's always a few numbskulls who don't know how to use a new (and different) dex
(deleting stuff on iPad is easy by the way, I just did it. you know you can use the blue balls in a selection and drag them to change what you selected and what not? it's easy only the scrolling in a posting box sucks).

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
Wow, the more rumors I hear about the Tau, the less I want to play them. I just hope they don't get the CSM treatment and get their 4th ed codex with 6th ed tacked on.

well, I remember when the DA rumours just started out it all sounded rather underwhelming; people were basically posting stuff to that effect as well. Rumours are getting better now, though. I'd say there's a fair chance we're just not hearing the juicy bits and the Tau 'dex will be a tonne of fun. God knows even the CSM dex was a huge improvement over it's predecessor even if many of us might not like the direction many things are taking (but then again, many of us just want 3.5 back ).

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nothing about the Tau way of warfare precludes something like this being "evolved" to deal with enemies which cannot be dealt with in straight up tactical maneuvers.

Say something like a certain race which has been pestering the Tau, and are known to come at you in great hordes of gribbly chitinous death?

Something like that calls for explosive flame weapons and rapid firing ion weapons, not more railguns.

Yeah, it's hard to beat a railgun....unless it's two or more railguns or rapid fire railguns....double tap at 36".... joy.

I can see them screwing with railguns so bad. We have a rail gun and a rail rifle, why not a rail cannon and a rail pistol!

Tau do need a little better high rate of fire options. I dam hope they fix the ion blaster and I wouldn't mind the burst cannon being a little more than just 3 carbines glued together.

 Micky wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nothing about the Tau way of warfare precludes something like this being "evolved" to deal with enemies which cannot be dealt with in straight up tactical maneuvers.

Say something like a certain race which has been pestering the Tau, and are known to come at you in great hordes of gribbly chitinous death?

Something like that calls for explosive flame weapons and rapid firing ion weapons, not more railguns.

The railgun submunitions would beg to differ.

Micky wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nothing about the Tau way of warfare precludes something like this being "evolved" to deal with enemies which cannot be dealt with in straight up tactical maneuvers.

Say something like a certain race which has been pestering the Tau, and are known to come at you in great hordes of gribbly chitinous death?

Something like that calls for explosive flame weapons and rapid firing ion weapons, not more railguns.

Perhaps making the airbursting fragmentation projector no longer special issue, but available for all Crisis suits, as well as giving us the XV9 and the pulse submunitions rifle along with it. Tau could also use a heavy flamer variant, as well as a torrent weapon (and if recent codices are an indication, torrent weapons are definitely an "it" thing...I'm looking at you Heldrake). Horde armies are something that Tau do have trouble with, as their blast weaponry is rather limited and/or short ranged. Granted, our best blast weapon has a nice and long range, but you can only field up to 3 in a standard game, and it typically fights with the XV88s for slots. What I'd really like to see is some sort of torrent weapon option on the Devilfish or Piranha, or perhaps some sort of flame drone.

Ledabot wrote:I can see them screwing with railguns so bad. We have a rail gun and a rail rifle, why not a rail cannon and a rail pistol!

Tau do need a little better high rate of fire options. I dam hope they fix the ion blaster and I wouldn't mind the burst cannon being a little more than just 3 carbines glued together.

If one of the rumors is true, rail weapons would be much nastier (and, IMHO, much more realistic). What I'm referring to is the ability for a rail weapon to penetrate multiple vehicles/units down its trajectory with reduced strength after each hit. I'm sure we'll see a proliferation of rail weapons within the Tau army, as its pretty much the Tau's specialty. Is this necessarily a bad thing? I don't think so. High penetration/powered long-range weaponry is not something I'll complain about. I'd love to be able to take rail rifles with my standard FW squads, even if its only one or two per squad, or even something like a rail carbine with an 18-24" range at S6 AP3.

On a side note, can we please keep the Necron (or any other irrelevant topics) discussions outside of this thread? Take it to PM or start a thread in the appropriate forum. It's really annoying to have to read through half a page of discussing Necron in a Tau rumor thread.

I can see most (if not all) of the special issue wargear being made available to everyone. Or at least, you can take it on as many HQ options as you like, or on all squad leaders.

Tragically not a lot of new rumors here (as a necron player, that thread was hysterical) except for something about maybe a big suit? Regardless of some people thinking once could work with current tau fluff - fluff is always changed and augmented, so if GW wants to sell one, they will (for better or for worse).


A few of my thoughts regarding tau stuff...
* Beam - I think we will get this for rail weapons. It screams railgun. This is just my speculation. They may tweak it a bit, but I would be surprised if the railgun was NOT beam.
* FW units - I think we will get a few. Not as many as I hope, but a couple (I don't care about the rules, I just want to use the models) - the trygon and piranha made it before, I suspect we may get something.
* New units - they always need new units - they want to sell models (what are they going to do for 6th ed for the full codexes? Or 7th? Gw has painted themselves into a corner here....). I am guessing new suits or infantry - either an ally or a special short ranged unit (which is ironic, as I feel many are short ranged already).
* Flyer - of course tau will get at least one. I just pray the stats are better than the existing terrible FW ones. Love the models, the stats are rubbish.

GW needs to sell models - thats their revenue stream. I acknowledge and respect that. (so lets not rant on the pros and cons of it).

I am just wondering how much they will release new models, how much may just be add on stuff (new HH weapons, or fish upgrades vs. a brand new tank).

davethepak wrote:
GW needs to sell models - thats their revenue stream. I acknowledge and respect that. (so lets not rant on the pros and cons of it).

I haven't seen a single person here proposing that GW should not sell models or in general being opposed to the notion that GW sells models. What I'm opposing is GW chucking their own design work under a bus just to sell new shiny that doesn't fit with good design. And yes, I know that GW frequently does this (I even acknowledged this in my first post)- but that doesn't mean that they should continue to do this.

ooo! How about the Skyray fires it's payload ala Manticore. They look damn similar, why not just get it over with already. And maybe move it to a different slot. I'm tired of not playing with the skyray because I have to bring XV88s to win.

I will start playing Tau again once this new book comes out. In fact I've already started pulling them out of storage to be stripped and repainted(First army, paint jobs were miserable.) I'm tired of rumours and just want my damn book. T.T

Gifblaur wrote:
ooo! How about the Skyray fires it's payload ala Manticore. They look damn similar, why not just get it over with already. And maybe move it to a different slot. I'm tired of not playing with the skyray because I have to bring XV88s to win.

I'm personally hoping it becomes a transport, perhaps for pathfinders. While a hammerhead probably trades off transport capacity for generator capacity, a skyray's just has a missile rack on the roof, here's no reason it couldn't fit 6-8 guys inside.

 Rainyday wrote:

Gifblaur wrote:
ooo! How about the Skyray fires it's payload ala Manticore. They look damn similar, why not just get it over with already. And maybe move it to a different slot. I'm tired of not playing with the skyray because I have to bring XV88s to win.

I'm personally hoping it becomes a transport, perhaps for pathfinders. While a hammerhead probably trades off transport capacity for generator capacity, a skyray's just has a missile rack on the roof, here's no reason it couldn't fit 6-8 guys inside.

That's actually not true.

The Skyray trades its transport capacity for generators within as well powering an advanced sensor suite which takes up the majority of the interior.
Remember that the Skyray when originally introduced was a primarily anti-aircraft vehicle.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's actually not true.

The Skyray trades its transport capacity for generators within as well powering an advanced sensor suite which takes up the majority of the interior.
Remember that the Skyray when originally introduced was a primarily anti-aircraft vehicle.

Ok, I concede defeat on that point. Unfortunately, GW has already passed up one chance to give it good anti-air, so we still have tau lugging imperial quad-autocannons around for their flyer-shooting needs.

I haven't seen any news regarding the Skyray so far. While we obviously don't have very many details right now, I still think there's a possibility it could remain anti-air in name only. Of course if the new air-to-air flyer has markerlights this would change everything.

 Rainyday wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's actually not true.

The Skyray trades its transport capacity for generators within as well powering an advanced sensor suite which takes up the majority of the interior.
Remember that the Skyray when originally introduced was a primarily anti-aircraft vehicle.

Ok, I concede defeat on that point. Unfortunately, GW has already passed up one chance to give it good anti-air, so we still have tau lugging imperial quad-autocannons around for their flyer-shooting needs.

I haven't seen any news regarding the Skyray so far. While we obviously don't have very many details right now, I still think there's a possibility it could remain anti-air in name only. Of course if the new air-to-air flyer has markerlights this would change everything.

When the Skyray was introduced, flyers were an Imperial Armour thing and the AA upgrade was 30 points.

With flyers becoming an actual Codex option, it's very likely we'll see the AA upgrade rolled into the Skyray.

We better dang well see SOMETHING for them. I like the model despite what others say about them. Actually there isn't anything about Tau I really dislike except for vespids.....Oh Gak..GW needs to sell more of em I'm sure(because really, who actually owns the things?) so they might be the new uber unit! JK

Yeah, I imagine a fair bit of Tau Ragequit if the Skyray doesn't get effective AA capabilities.

More so if effective AA capabilities don't otherwise appear in our codex.

Even more so if there is the sudden appearance of several dedicated Assault units (as opposed to Counter-Assault units)

Considerably more so if the Tau suddenly go full Grimdark.

So yeah, I'm not worried about if th Tau will get a big mecha or not (and I can see the good and bad of that). There are a lot more key aspects of our army's effectiveness and flavour that hae to go right.

Gifblaur wrote:
ooo! How about the Skyray fires it's payload ala Manticore. They look damn similar, why not just get it over with already. And maybe move it to a different slot. I'm tired of not playing with the skyray because I have to bring XV88s to win.

I will start playing Tau again once this new book comes out. In fact I've already started pulling them out of storage to be stripped and repainted(First army, paint jobs were miserable.) I'm tired of rumours and just want my damn book. T.T

You do realize that the Skyray already does indeed fire like the Manticore, in terms of limited ammunition, right? You get six shots with its seeker missiles, and that's it. I also ask, what slot would you put it in? There's a reason it's in the heavy slot (it's not fast, it's not an elite unit, definitely not a troop or HQ, either), and there's a reason that people don't use it. The Skyray has almost no utility in a normal game. Seeker missiles are only S8, single shot, no blast weapons. Add the fact that you have to hit with and expend a markerlight, then roll to hit with the seeker missile itself (I know it's BS5, but it's still an extra chance to fail)just to hit a target...no thank you. To me, it's a no brainer to use the XV88 or Railhead in a match to get more bang for my buck, unless they give the Skyray some sort of AA capability or different variants of seeker missiles. As of right now, the Skyray is merely a way to get the whole Hammerhead/Devilfish sprue, as well as the extra bits from the Skyray sprue at the same value as the Hammerhead (until GW wisens up and charges more for the Skyray kit).

Honestly, I don't see a lot of "Tau ragequit" if they don't give the Skyray AA capability, either. As of right now, it's not exceptionally difficult for the Tau to bring down a flyer with focused pulse rifle fire. That S5 30" range can glance most flyers to death; I know it's not perfect, or as effective as taking something like a quad gun, but it works in a pinch. In the end though, I have faith that GW will give us at the very least a flyer and some sort of AA option for our vehicles or suits. Also, it's the Skyray...most Tau players have already written it off...frankly, I think many folks wouldn't care if nothing happened to it, or if it disappeared altogether.

I know we are supposed to stick to rumors, but wouldn't it be awesome if the turrets were operated as standard tau suits but-
Mobility is made up for in armor, stealth field, and ability to"hunker down"-being almost invulnerable if not firing
You could also do a "hidden deployment" rule, which you right down board coordinates and you can choose to place them there when ever you decide to. (Only soft terrain-its kind of hard to dig in in intact concrete)

via Stickmonkey
Tau UBER-suit

AV:11/11/11
Hullpoints:2
Dual (not linked) Rail Cannons
Missile Launcher
Interceptor/Skyfire
Many upgrade options including Stealth

BONUS Tasty Morsel:
Markerlights gain the ability to grant Skyfire.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/11/40k-rumors-tau-uber-suit-latest.html

 Cyrax wrote:

via Stickmonkey
Tau UBER-suit

AV:11/11/11
Hullpoints:2

shaso_iceborn@warseer wrote:'big tau suit': WS2, BS4, S5, T6, W4, I2, A2, Ld8, Sv2+4++

Are more big suits in the works? Over on warseer the big suit is more akin to an MC whereas SM quotes walker stats. Has anyone got more info on that?

By the looks of it, the MC-suit seems so much better than the walker suit, 11AV and 2 HP... Its goin to die so easily : / at least it has some really nice weapons and options, and the Stealth one can make him really powerfull, maybe he can also take the Shield for the Inv¿

And... Oh... Dual Rail CANNON... Interceptor/skyfire... Looks broken, really broken

Markerlights grants Skyfire: Hype

Shaso_iceborn regularly spouts random gak he "hears". He's been doing that for over a year now, and he's never been right.

An AV 11 suit with only two HP is practically worthless. Let's hope that is not correct.

I really hope this is a cruel joke. Even with stealth it's only getting a decent cover save if its hidden, but its going to be taken down by auto cannons so fast.

I really hate this. They give Tau something good, but then make it so weak to try and balance it out. I'm guessing its going to be at least 150 points for that too.

 Cyrax wrote:

via Stickmonkey
Tau UBER-suit

AV:11/11/11
Hullpoints:2
Dual (not linked) Rail Cannons
Missile Launcher
Interceptor/Skyfire
Many upgrade options including Stealth

BONUS Tasty Morsel:
Markerlights gain the ability to grant Skyfire.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/11/40k-rumors-tau-uber-suit-latest.html

This suit sounds like a walker designed by a Dark Eldar for the Tau. But if it has Skyfire/Interceptor on the rails too... That would be interesting in a good way!

 Vhalyar wrote:
Shaso_iceborn regularly spouts random gak he "hears". He's been doing that for over a year now, and he's never been right.

Links? I only have recent stuff for him and it is all pending.

That "Uber" suit sounds more like flyer stats to me. I can see the Tau having an 11/11/11 2HP flyer with rail cannons/missile launchers and wargear to give it stealth. It also puts it in line with some of the rumors that have been dropped about a Tau flyer. Perhaps somebody has their wires crossed? I see an MC-type suit being more likely than an armored one.

Thinking that the 11/11/11 is the "Copperhead" that's been thrown around a bit. Those aren't stats that could reasonably survive on the board as a walker.

 pretre wrote:

 Vhalyar wrote:
Shaso_iceborn regularly spouts random gak he "hears". He's been doing that for over a year now, and he's never been right.

Links? I only have recent stuff for him and it is all pending.

Avian quotes you like this (trustworthy as ever ):

shaso_iceborn - Total rumors: (25 TRUE) / (2 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Anyway:

shaso_iceborn wrote:As said before I simply pass along what is told to me. I was told the MC version was in recent play-testing, this however, does not mean it comes into final product. Like many others I hear about things during certain areas of completion, many things change or never even make it into final product. All I can do is pass along information given to me. Even I will say although they have been getting much better and much more accurate, my sources are unreliable at best as the information they give me is from "early in the process" production and subject to change.

I have information about an upcoming expansion too but I will wait for others before I chime in before I say too much, and besides it's very off topic for Tau.

I recently corrected Shaso_iceborn's tracking, as it looked to be a cut and paste error.

shaso_iceborn - Total rumors: (0 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Where's the link to where Avian posted that so I can correct it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nevermind. Google got it for me.

What is a rail cannon?
How can you get better then a rail gun? unless it str 14 ap 0

S10 AP1 Small Blast would be better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although then it couldn't skyfire. Or S10 AP1 Heavy 4.

(Not a rumor)

... or drawing a line would also be better.

Drawing a line sounds such a childish kind of combat mechanic. I wouldn't believe they would do that except they already have done with that Space Wolf space magic spell.

Absolutely, because there's no way that a projectile could pile right through one object and into another in a straight line.

 pretre wrote:
S10 AP1 Small Blast would be better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although then it couldn't skyfire. Or S10 AP1 Heavy 4.

(Not a rumor)

Time to saves the moneys

Perhaps the rail cannon will be what the HH carries (as in having the capability to fire the submunition rounds), and the railgun will be the weapon carried by the XV88. Or perhaps a rail cannon is specifically a rapid-fire skyfire weapon (I don't see it being S10 AP1 Heavy 4 as pretre proposed...maybe something more like S7 AP2 Heavy 3). Or perhaps we're reading into something that merely semantics or a name change (or error in translation). Until we get some sort of hint, we can speculate until we're blue in the face.

And Kilkrazy, I don't think it's a silly combat mechanic. Just like pretre said, it's not a stretch to think that a hyper velocity projectile could penetrate multiple targets. I do think that they have to be careful how they implement the mechanic, because I can see it being either very complicated and convoluted or really broken.

Updated Shaso a bit more based on his warseer post history in the tracker.

 MechaBeast wrote:
Wasn't there a rumor about 9 months ago that had different HQ's 'unlocking' certain troop options? Wouldn't something this size and firepower be an awesome HQ for a crisis suit troop based army

I would not be surprised... isn't this something of a core design philosophy for GW at the moment? Not a bad one, in my mind, especially if it's "generic characters" as opposed to special characters doing the unlocking.

I had a neat idea to revise Inquisition forces based around this, so an Inquisitor HQ could take an SoB (Probably one of the old Chapter Approved specialist Sisters... Famulous? Dialogus? Fakelatinus?) in their retinue to unlock SoBs, or a Guard officer for a simpel version of Guard, or both...The SoB HQ would auto-unlock SoBs, of course... And might have a specialist to unlock IG squads for the CA-era 'Sisters with Guard support"...

Is there any precedent set that this could have the MC rules instead of a Walker or vehicle rules?

 MechaBeast wrote:
Is there any precedent set that this could have the MC rules instead of a Walker or vehicle rules?

Um...the dreadknight?

On the railcannon - there is a whole new weapon type - beam - which sounds a lot like a railgun to me.

Here is hoping. I just want them to add my FW models to the dex....I don't care what the rules are (well, ok, if the 11/11 hp2 thing is it....I will never use it).

 MechaBeast wrote:
Is there any precedent set that this could have the MC rules instead of a Walker or vehicle rules?

It's a guy in a big suit, akin to a dreadknight.


On the other hand, so are war walkers... X_X so there goes that.

 Micky wrote:
On the other hand, so are war walkers... X_X so there goes that.

Ah, but the difference is that the dreadknight has arms. The war-walkers only have legs.

Any news on the HQ front?
Like are we restricted to the damn Crisis commanders still?

Sadly no news, but I would expect that different suit types will become an option. XV22 commanders could come out like shadowsun. In fact, I would be surprised if the big fella coming out couldn't be an hq though. Commander and fire support don't tend to stick together. Also, a bigger target is not very tauish. I could see Gw doing it though. A big special character that just yells "look how awesome I am! I'm in a freakn mecha!"

Wraithlords could be seen as such a precedent also.

It's still rather silly though. Something like a dreadknight is a mechanical bipedal construct. It's a walker. MC are durable because they have 4+W, armor save, and relatively high T. Walkers are insanely fragile because Pen results can reduce it's mobility, firepower, or out right destroy it. Glances remove it's "vehicle wounds" far too easily.

Basically I see it like this. If it is a walker, it's inheirantly vulnerable. Add to that it's armor 11 all around, it has weapons that you don't want to survive past turn 1 (especially if it's stronger than the railgun), it will destroy vehicles in reserve when they come in, and is especially good against flyers.

I don't know if they plan on keeping D.Pods as shrouding and that the "stealth" option is something new or just how the new D. Pod will go. I want to bet that the D. Pod will now grant stealth since they're going to make Tau more points efficient for 6th. So I also assume this walker will be getting a 4+ cover save as well. I don't think it's going to be able to be in a squadron either.

But really you have one of the biggest possible targets in the game, and it's fragile to boot. I really hope this early playtest got tossed because I don't want this to be the direction Tau goes.

Another thing that scares me is the use of the term Rail cannon. It really makes me think they are going to tone down the broadside's railgun to be weaker and probably lower ap. I'm guessing S8 AP2, and make the cannon a S10 Ap1 weapon. I really hate sounding so negative, but this is the one bit of news I've heard on Tau in a while and it's very very depressing.

Have they ever taken a weapon/unit that has been the same for two versions of the codex and super-nerfed it before?
I just can't really see GW taking the railgun and utterly changing it's function like that.
I think that the railcannon would just be a different version with a different version. For example, it is only S9 but has beam. Somthing like that.

 DakkaHammer wrote:
Have they ever taken a weapon/unit that has been the same for two versions of the codex and super-nerfed it before?

Sure, just take a look at Codex: Tyranids.

I think the rail "cannon" will be for the vehicle versions of the gun. This way there is a clear distinction in terms between the ones mounted on the broadsides and one mounted on a Hammerhead that can shoot in a straight line and or sub-munition.

Just thinking out loud

 pretre wrote:

 DakkaHammer wrote:
Have they ever taken a weapon/unit that has been the same for two versions of the codex and super-nerfed it before?

Sure, just take a look at Codex: Tyranids.

Deathspitter: Strength 6, Assault, Blast nerfed to Strength 5, Assault 3
Barbed Strangler: Strength 8, Assault, Large Blast nerfed to Strength 6, Assault, Large Blast

 MechaBeast wrote:
I think the rail "cannon" will be for the vehicle versions of the gun. This way there is a clear distinction in terms between the ones mounted on the broadsides and one mounted on a Hammerhead that can shoot in a straight line and or sub-munition.

Just thinking out loud

Yeah, given that they're so vastly different in size

I'll be shocked if Railguns don't get the ability to draw a line. Such a mechanic would be realistic as far as what a real Railgun would do. A projectile that travels several miles per second is not going to simply be stopped dead in its tracks by the likes of some dinky Land Raider.

 Archonate wrote:
I'll be shocked if Railguns don't get the ability to draw a line. Such a mechanic would be realistic as far as what a real Railgun would do. A projectile that travels several miles per second is not going to simply be stopped dead in its tracks by the likes of some dinky Land Raider.

Unless you roll a 3.

via Anonymous playtest Comments on Faeit 212 wrote:
I tested this battlesuit. That startling is correct, the 4+ invul. Comes from a shield generator. It does not have Inteceptor/skyfire

the "Big Battle Suit" I tested was noted as being on the large oval base, it's picture showed that it is VERY similar in design to the Golden Daemon Bot. It comes with the Rail Cannons if you would like for it to. It has BS 4 similar to the Hammerhead. It again, follows that profile. People are wondering is what it offers instead of the Broadsides. First, it's more flexible. Second, it can't be instant deathed (by high strength weaponry). Lastly, broadsides have gone up in cost slightly. What do broadsides provide? Dedicated anti tank and more railguns for the price. I find it likely that more dedicated tau armies will opt for the "Big Battlesuit" and more allied contingents will opt for broadsides.

 pretre wrote:
Absolutely, because there's no way that a projectile could pile right through one object and into another in a straight line.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, although obviously it would be rare, just that it is a stupid, childish combat mechanic.

A railgun projectile usually wouldn't go through anything solid because it gets vapourised on hitting the target, which is what does the damage. What might shoot out the other side is a cone-shaped cloud of super-hot gas and spall debris. Should the railgun be give the ability to create a small blast opposite the hit point on a target, to reflect this?

Ooh. That'd be kind of cool. Maybe a flamer template out the other side of the unit.

 pretre wrote:

via Anonymous playtest Comments on Faeit 212 wrote:
I tested this battlesuit. That startling is correct, the 4+ invul. Comes from a shield generator. It does not have Inteceptor/skyfire

the "Big Battle Suit" I tested was noted as being on the large oval base, it's picture showed that it is VERY similar in design to the Golden Daemon Bot. It comes with the Rail Cannons if you would like for it to. It has BS 4 similar to the Hammerhead. It again, follows that profile. People are wondering is what it offers instead of the Broadsides. First, it's more flexible. Second, it can't be instant deathed (by high strength weaponry). Lastly, broadsides have gone up in cost slightly. What do broadsides provide? Dedicated anti tank and more railguns for the price. I find it likely that more dedicated tau armies will opt for the "Big Battlesuit" and more allied contingents will opt for broadsides.

I'm saddened by the cost upgrade, but in a meta game of alliances, who wouldn't want to take a Broadside for some anti tank.

I'm trying to reason why it would make a difference between a dedicated tau army would take the Mech vs an alliance army taking broadsides.

Because Broadsides can be taken in units and i guess the new thing will be solo (not counting drones).

So... Giant walker with two railcannons and a good save. Where does this leave the hammerhead?

 Savageconvoy wrote:
So... Giant walker with two railcannons and a good save. Where does this leave the hammerhead?

Who knows? Though it's still a higher AV than this purposed walker. Maybe there's weapon options available to the hammerhead only. Maybe it's not in the same FOC slot as this walker.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
So... Giant walker with two railcannons and a good save. Where does this leave the hammerhead?

Who knows? Though it's still a higher AV than this purposed walker. Maybe there's weapon options available to the hammerhead only. Maybe it's not in the same FOC slot as this walker.

If the playtesters rules stay as is, it sounds like it will have MC rules

If it's a MC, where does it fall? Elite choice, heavy support, possibly HQ w/ battlesuits as troops. If it's heavy support, will it compete with the FW turreted hammerheads or broadsides. They' re both devastating. I'm anxious for anything Tau at this point. Bring on 2013.

What about on a roll of a 6 to hit, the thing makes a traight line?

 MechaBeast wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
So... Giant walker with two railcannons and a good save. Where does this leave the hammerhead?

Who knows? Though it's still a higher AV than this purposed walker. Maybe there's weapon options available to the hammerhead only. Maybe it's not in the same FOC slot as this walker.

If the playtesters rules stay as is, it sounds like it will have MC rules

Even more of a reason then, Hammerhead can't fall victim to tesseracht labyrinths or Time's Arrow or Eternity Gated (three immediate examples I can think of of abilities that remove models, bypass eternal warrior, and don't care about toughness).

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Absolutely, because there's no way that a projectile could pile right through one object and into another in a straight line.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, although obviously it would be rare, just that it is a stupid, childish combat mechanic.

A railgun projectile usually wouldn't go through anything solid because it gets vapourised on hitting the target, which is what does the damage. What might shoot out the other side is a cone-shaped cloud of super-hot gas and spall debris. Should the railgun be give the ability to create a small blast opposite the hit point on a target, to reflect this?

I'm not sure that's how the physics work, unless you're thinking of a specific type of ammunition specially designed to fragment in such a way. But everything we read says Tau use a solid projectile just like the U.S. Navy's railgun prototype. I suppose the projectile could break, but it's not going to vaporize. The explosive force and plasma plumes follow in the wake of the projectile... According to all the footage I've seen anyway.

 Archonate wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Absolutely, because there's no way that a projectile could pile right through one object and into another in a straight line.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, although obviously it would be rare, just that it is a stupid, childish combat mechanic.

A railgun projectile usually wouldn't go through anything solid because it gets vapourised on hitting the target, which is what does the damage. What might shoot out the other side is a cone-shaped cloud of super-hot gas and spall debris. Should the railgun be give the ability to create a small blast opposite the hit point on a target, to reflect this?

I'm not sure that's how the physics work, unless you're thinking of a specific type of ammunition specially designed to fragment in such a way. But everything we read says Tau use a solid projectile just like the U.S. Navy's railgun prototype. I suppose the projectile could break, but it's not going to vaporize. The explosive force and plasma plumes follow in the wake of the projectile... According to all the footage I've seen anyway.

Projectiles do damage by transferring kinetic energy. If a projectile punches through a target and out the other side, than the energy is staying with the projectile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWZPp3aEjuM

It's a sales pitch, but hey, it's about railguns so it can't all be bad.

It starts off with the dart but eventually different ammunition will be developed for it. This is essentially the musket ball of future weapons, god help anyone on the receiving end!

This "linear railgun" idea is ridiculous. A railgun can go through objects, but the bazillion times stronger laser beam of the Volcano Cannon can't? Come on ! And its not like the railgun is the most powerful AT in the game. We have Bastion-Breacher Shells for that job, and they aren't damage stuff in a line either.

Also, if the playtester rumours about the big-battlesuit are true, then we will finally have something solid against CronAir other than the Aegis Quad Gun. Interceptor/Skyfire Railguns on a high-Toughness platform with a 4+ invu? Yes please!

 AtoMaki wrote:
This "linear railgun" idea is ridiculous. A railgun can go through objects, but the bazillion times stronger laser beam of the Volcano Cannon can't? Come on ! And its not like the railgun is the most powerful AT in the game. We have Bastion-Breacher Shells for that job, and they aren't damage stuff in a line either.

Because shells are designed to explode at the end of their journey, solid shot railgun ammunition isn't really. Same thing with the volcano cannon, it's a blast weapon. If the railgun put down a template then I don't think anyone would give a second thought to the shot continuing.

I have mixed feelings about railguns going in a line. On the one hand, it feels like the shot should just plow through whatever I shoot at when I roll a 6 or something, but drawing multiple 72" lines across the board is going to get tiresome quick. Especially if there's terrain in the way, or models that are really tall.

I don't think it's too absurd to get the linear railgun. I mean we are somewhat limited in our Anti-tank being restricted to HS. How many other armies can only take las cannons in the HS slot?

Might as well make the Railgun stand out more. Besides, it's nice to make the enemy really spread everything out to avoid lining up.

Yes all AT is in HS, just look at all the vendettas, land speeders, dreadnoughts, lootas, hive guard, fire dragons and any others i forgot.

 Micky wrote:
I really hope they dont start throwing Veritechs in there....

We dont need jetfighters that transform into battlesuits X_X

You shut your whore mouth! You bet your limey butt we do!

Keep in mind with a linear weapon that will also limit your ability to hit multiple units if you're in ruins or on battlements or something. Since, but definition you'll be firing in a straight line, if you're ever on uneven playing field with the enemy you'll be shooting down instead of straight.
Make sense?

 DakkaHammer wrote:

Same thing with the volcano cannon, it's a blast weapon.

The volcano fires a huge beam of of energy. It is the very definition of a "beam weapon".

 HoverBoy wrote:
Yes all AT is in HS, just look at all the vendettas, land speeders, dreadnoughts, lootas, hive guard, fire dragons and any others i forgot.

... Good job proving him right Yes, all these things are in HS. If you want AT in the tau army, you're limited to fusion blasters. So it would be like any other army being unable to take long-ranged AT (like a lascannon) on anything not in their Heavy Support slot.

 DakkaHammer wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
This "linear railgun" idea is ridiculous. A railgun can go through objects, but the bazillion times stronger laser beam of the Volcano Cannon can't? Come on ! And its not like the railgun is the most powerful AT in the game. We have Bastion-Breacher Shells for that job, and they aren't damage stuff in a line either.

Because shells are designed to explode at the end of their journey, solid shot railgun ammunition isn't really. Same thing with the volcano cannon, it's a blast weapon. If the railgun put down a template then I don't think anyone would give a second thought to the shot continuing.

I have mixed feelings about railguns going in a line. On the one hand, it feels like the shot should just plow through whatever I shoot at when I roll a 6 or something, but drawing multiple 72" lines across the board is going to get tiresome quick. Especially if there's terrain in the way, or models that are really tall.

Exactly. Not to mention that real terrain is not the flatness of a tabletop.

 Nagashek wrote:

 Micky wrote:
I really hope they dont start throwing Veritechs in there....

We dont need jetfighters that transform into battlesuits X_X

You shut your whore mouth! You bet your limey butt we do!

I'm holding out for the Water Caste pop-singer who holds concerts in the middle of battle.

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:

 HoverBoy wrote:
Yes all AT is in HS, just look at all the vendettas, land speeders, dreadnoughts, lootas, hive guard, fire dragons and any others i forgot.

... Good job proving him right Yes, all these things are in HS. If you want AT in the tau army, you're limited to fusion blasters. So it would be like any other army being unable to take long-ranged AT (like a lascannon) on anything not in their Heavy Support slot.

Well truth be told fusion blasters are good AT, and they can be mounted on fast or some more durable platforms, the lack of choice actually stems from the fact that back when the codex was written having that many options was the norm.

RogueRegault wrote:

 Nagashek wrote:

 Micky wrote:
I really hope they dont start throwing Veritechs in there....

We dont need jetfighters that transform into battlesuits X_X

You shut your whore mouth! You bet your limey butt we do!

I'm holding out for the Water Caste pop-singer who holds concerts in the middle of battle.

HQ Choices:
Shas El: Typical Battle Suit commander
Shas O: Battle Suit commander with the additional option "Macross Cannon" for 50pts. Once per game, you may lay down the Apocalypse Template. Every model underneath takes a S10 AP1 Melta Lance Ordinance hit. The Shas O has "Preferred Enemy" USR while making the Macross Cannon attack.

RogueRegault wrote:

 Nagashek wrote:

 Micky wrote:
I really hope they dont start throwing Veritechs in there....

We dont need jetfighters that transform into battlesuits X_X

You shut your whore mouth! You bet your limey butt we do!

I'm holding out for the Water Caste pop-singer who holds concerts in the middle of battle.

I like to imagine that's how my Ethereal inspires the troops (yes i converted a female Ethereal).

 HoverBoy wrote:

Well truth be told fusion blasters are good AT, and they can be mounted on fast or some more durable platforms, the lack of choice actually stems from the fact that back when the codex was written having that many options was the norm.

Fusion Blasters are just standard Melta weapons that require you to be up close in an army that's designed to fight at a distance. The fast durable platforms also lose their shrouding bonus just to get within firing range. It's really not going to be too difficult to bring down an open topped A11/11/10 when it drives right up to you. That and combined with being on an expensive vehicle that only has two close range weapons.

Such is the life of 4th ed.

Piranhas weren't all that good in 4th edition. They just weren't rivalled by anything better.

 HoverBoy wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:

 Nagashek wrote:

 Micky wrote:
I really hope they dont start throwing Veritechs in there....

We dont need jetfighters that transform into battlesuits X_X

You shut your whore mouth! You bet your limey butt we do!

I'm holding out for the Water Caste pop-singer who holds concerts in the middle of battle.

I like to imagine that's how my Ethereal inspires the troops (yes i converted a female Ethereal).

The Tau! Now with the Minmei Defence.

"That little watercaste girl is singing on the middle of the battlefield."
"I now realize the futility of fighting. From this day hence I renounce my warlike ways."
"Lets join her fan club!"

Said no one in the 40k universe ever.

Actually I just thought of something important.

How do Tau wear eyeglasses?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Actually I just thought of something important.

How do Tau wear eyeglasses?

Instead of a bridge they have a pacifier on the end that fits into the groove on their face.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
So... Giant walker with two railcannons and a good save. Where does this leave the hammerhead?

It leaves the hammerhead immune to poison weapons and small arms fire, also a lot more mobile.

 HoverBoy wrote:
Yes all AT is in HS, just look at all the vendettas, land speeders, dreadnoughts, lootas, hive guard, fire dragons and any others i forgot.

Heavy Destroyers, scarabs, Triarch Stalkers, anything with a warscythe. None of that is in HS slot for necrons.

And no, I'm not counting "gauss" weapons.

What Tau need is more Anti heavy infantry.
Please let stealth suits take rail rifles.
I really hope that big suit holds up.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What Tau need is more Anti heavy infantry.
Please let stealth suits take rail rifles.
I really hope that big suit holds up.

They just need to allow stealth suits to take all weapon types. Yu get stealth and shroud but only one hard point, seems like a very fair trade compared to normal crisis suits which are almost always better.

Last time they kept stealth on short range gear for "balance" with the new way the stealth field works i hope they realize that's no longer necessary.

 HoverBoy wrote:
Last time they kept stealth on short range gear for "balance" with the new way the stealth field works i hope they realize that's no longer necessary.

^This.

Rail rifles, or anything with a 36"+ range for the stealth suits was broken using the old rules. Now, well, not so much. Even if it were only the team leader/Shas'vre that was able to take, say, a plasma rifle, I'd be happy. Or perhaps the Shas'vre will unlock those weapons for the whole team. I'd pay those 5 extra points to replace the BCs with something else.

Really, though, it would be nice to have the ability to take heavy/special weapons with FW squads, or to just give us more troops options. FWs are great for gunlines, but Tau are seriously hamstrung with being able to take and hold objectives. Overwatch has mitigated some of that, but with a lack of any ability to take AP2 weapons in a FW squad really hurts against TEQ.

The tau rumor front has been quiet lately...

But wait, Sniper drones already have a stealth field generator?
How where they not broken with rail rifles before?

No jetpacks.

They need to have rail rifle machinegun.Damage of rail rifle, 3 shots, lines until they hit tank "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" says pyschic chorus

If you do the math, sniper drone teams are only slightly less effective than fireknifes for their point cost. They do trade manoeuvrability for range however. The new rules let them become really hard to remove from behind cover. I'm surprised we don't see them more apart from the reason they take up HS slots. (still 3 teams for 1 slot)

All right fellas,

Here is the wish list from Farseerandyman.

Tau need the following...not to make the army devastating, just to make it fun to play and play against.

1. Firewarriors-- Must have the ability to pack an AT weapon. Something like a Rail Rifle...str 6 rending maybe..

2. Kroot-- Include the Mercenaries options for improved str, init, Sixth Sense. Stuff like that made the Kroot VIABLE. Bring them back.

3. Marker Lights-- Ill put it this way... "rolling dice is fun, NOT rolling dice is NOT fun" When an army has an OBVIOUS lynch pin, it leads to "Take out the pathfinders and the army falls apart" Having to rely on my opponents ( the tau player ) bad luck just to survive the "Alpha Strike" on round one is TOTALLY UNSPORTING!!

4. Ethereal-- At this point just let me pay 50 points to give my army HATRED. The Ethereal is right next door to useless.

5. Drone technology-- I LOVE the idea. Lets expand on it. How about 3 legged walker drones that are troops? The drone rules now are TOTALLY FRUSTRATING!!

6. Hand to Hand-- Or the lack thereof. The Tau are designed to be a mobile gun platfrom. Understood. Give them an EFFECTIVE hand to hand unit. It doesnt have to be overwhelming, just something fun to play. Watching my Kroot die by the handfull against Eldar just sucks. At least give the Kroot some sort of "sneaky" save in hand to hand.

7. Hammerhead-- The Taros Campaign has the right idea. Give that chasis some options!!

8. UberMech-- The Tau need a cool "UberMech" something like armor 12 all the way around and a 4+ invulnerable save. Give it 3 HP and 2 Rail Cannons. Give it the "it will not die" rule to reflect Nano-tech repair systems.

9. Anti Psyker-- Again, nothing overpowering. Just a chance. Throw in the Niccasar.

10. Ethereal Bodyguard-- How about some COOL bodyguard for the Ethereal. Mercenaries, Alien Bounty hunters, Robot killing machines, Slyyth, Hrud...let the imagination run wild.

11. Monstrous Creatures-- How cool would a giant chitinous bug from the Vespids be? It bursts out of the ground and attacks the nearest UNIT!! Cheap, but devastating and wildly unpredictable...it would give a little contrast to the army.

12. New vespid units---How about a cool "Sectaurs" unit---Vespids riding big ol' Dragonflies?? The dragonfly could be treated as Jump Infantry or Flying Cavalry. Give them a cool small blast "acid spit" attack..

13. Cavalry-- Include the Kroot Gnarlac (spelling?) riders.

14. Off table support-- How about being able to purchase off table support in the form of either anti-tank or anti-infantry...maybe give the Firewarrior Shas'o the ability to call in support..or maybe that is the previously mentioned "support" weapon in the Firewarriors unit.

15. Flyers-- I know they have them , just put them in the next codex.

16. Defense lines or fortifications-- How cool would a twin linked Rail cannon with Skyfire be? Or how about a cool landing pad that had anti aicraft capability? How about a Fortification that could pump out drones?

Just some thoughts my son and I have come up with...Whatcha guys think?

Andyman

I seem to remember that the game Dawn of War had a variant of the Devilfish that was like a mobile drone factory. So like every turn it could pump out a squad of Gun Drones ala Tervigons.

Oh yea the Harbinger, and it looked so boxy in the back i always found it funny

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
All right fellas,

Here is the wish list from Farseerandyman.

Tau need the following...not to make the army devastating, just to make it fun to play and play against.

1. Firewarriors-- Must have the ability to pack an AT weapon. Something like a Rail Rifle...str 6 rending maybe..

The Tau codex specifically states that the use of heavy weaponry in their firewarrior squads is against Tau combat doctrine and I'm pretty sure it won't change. Nor should it. FWs should be targeting enemy infantry, not vehicles. They have other units equipped to deal with vehicles.

I'm hoping that FWs will get a new special ability or two to become a little more 'elite guerrilla commando' if you know what I mean. They are, after all, born into a life of combat training. Much like Cadians but with superior tactical training instead of the IGs ideology of brute force and mindlessly pushing to take ground.

16. Defense lines or fortifications-- How cool would a twin linked Rail cannon with Skyfire be? Or how about a cool landing pad that had anti aicraft capability? How about a Fortification that could pump out drones?

Also against Tau combat doctrine. Tau don't futz around with holing up in bunkers and trenches as a strategy. They'll use them for cover if they happen upon them, but since holding ground is of little meaning to the Tau, they don't bother erecting their own armored defense lines. I think purchasing the aegis defense line is just fine. Just say that your army was fortunate to be near some abandoned imperial defenses when they engaged your opponent.

I liked your other ideas though.

Aside from the "UberMech" which will cost like 500 pts the way you have it laid out.

What i would like to see is Vespids become like scourges, Carrying in assault weapons to kill enemies.
Give them a weapon where it auto glances on a 2-5.

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
All right fellas,

Here is the wish list from Farseerandyman.

Tau need the following...not to make the army devastating, just to make it fun to play and play against.

1. Firewarriors-- Must have the ability to pack an AT weapon. Something like a Rail Rifle...str 6 rending maybe..

2. Kroot-- Include the Mercenaries options for improved str, init, Sixth Sense. Stuff like that made the Kroot VIABLE. Bring them back.

3. Marker Lights-- Ill put it this way... "rolling dice is fun, NOT rolling dice is NOT fun" When an army has an OBVIOUS lynch pin, it leads to "Take out the pathfinders and the army falls apart" Having to rely on my opponents ( the tau player ) bad luck just to survive the "Alpha Strike" on round one is TOTALLY UNSPORTING!!

4. Ethereal-- At this point just let me pay 50 points to give my army HATRED. The Ethereal is right next door to useless.

5. Drone technology-- I LOVE the idea. Lets expand on it. How about 3 legged walker drones that are troops? The drone rules now are TOTALLY FRUSTRATING!!

6. Hand to Hand-- Or the lack thereof. The Tau are designed to be a mobile gun platfrom. Understood. Give them an EFFECTIVE hand to hand unit. It doesnt have to be overwhelming, just something fun to play. Watching my Kroot die by the handfull against Eldar just sucks. At least give the Kroot some sort of "sneaky" save in hand to hand.

7. Hammerhead-- The Taros Campaign has the right idea. Give that chasis some options!!

8. UberMech-- The Tau need a cool "UberMech" something like armor 12 all the way around and a 4+ invulnerable save. Give it 3 HP and 2 Rail Cannons. Give it the "it will not die" rule to reflect Nano-tech repair systems.

9. Anti Psyker-- Again, nothing overpowering. Just a chance. Throw in the Niccasar.

10. Ethereal Bodyguard-- How about some COOL bodyguard for the Ethereal. Mercenaries, Alien Bounty hunters, Robot killing machines, Slyyth, Hrud...let the imagination run wild.

11. Monstrous Creatures-- How cool would a giant chitinous bug from the Vespids be? It bursts out of the ground and attacks the nearest UNIT!! Cheap, but devastating and wildly unpredictable...it would give a little contrast to the army.

12. New vespid units---How about a cool "Sectaurs" unit---Vespids riding big ol' Dragonflies?? The dragonfly could be treated as Jump Infantry or Flying Cavalry. Give them a cool small blast "acid spit" attack..

13. Cavalry-- Include the Kroot Gnarlac (spelling?) riders.

14. Off table support-- How about being able to purchase off table support in the form of either anti-tank or anti-infantry...maybe give the Firewarrior Shas'o the ability to call in support..or maybe that is the previously mentioned "support" weapon in the Firewarriors unit.

15. Flyers-- I know they have them , just put them in the next codex.

16. Defense lines or fortifications-- How cool would a twin linked Rail cannon with Skyfire be? Or how about a cool landing pad that had anti aicraft capability? How about a Fortification that could pump out drones?

Just some thoughts my son and I have come up with...Whatcha guys think?

Andyman

Here's what I think:
1. Love the idea, but against Tau doctrine to have mixed weapons in their squads. How about we continue what the Rifle and Carbine options were all about? Have a single distinct gun each FW squad can take, like, Either a squad using Rifles, or Carbines, and maybe a third option, like a pulse SMG or Pulse Trench/Flakk Gun (kinda lame example guns, but the idea stands). Work with the idea that while they can't have mixed arms in their FW units, how about FW come in 3 or 4 distinct flavors, depending on which gun they take from the loadout?
2. More kroot options always welcome. Maybe give them a shaper without the crazy point cost, I don't necessarily want the basic kroot better, stat-wise, but more options are always appreciated.
3.I love markerlights, but make them more accessible, and update their rules on what they can do (eliminate target priority, introduce skyfire), and make the more accessible to field (such as eliminating the "networked markerlight" and non-networked variants, make makerlights "networked" by default).
4. Make Ethereals useful. Have his honour-guard get BS 4 for free. and maybe let his honour guard shoot overwatch at full BS (call it "resolute" or something)
5. Love drones, like the walker drone idea, I don't even dislike the lower BS as long as I get twin linked, but more weapon options would be nice, and for god's sake, make them fearless. Tau are one of the few races that regularly deal with leadership, can we at least get basic support machines that don't feel fear?
6. Disagree. No hand-to-hand. Never. Let kroot and vespid be "OK" or "Kinda good depending on the situation", but never flat-out good. We're Tau, we're ranged and our weakness is melee. Take that weakness away from us and we become vanilla bland and boring. Let us suck in melee. Tau being good in melee is like giving dark eldar units slow and beefy bruisers, it's against what the army stands for. Tau's melee slogan should be like a junior high anti-drug catchphrase "Never. Even. Once."
7. Totally agree, more options for tank chassis!
8. Mixed feelings. A "Monsterous Creature" type of ubermech would be pretty cool, as most MCs are melee beasts, it would be nice to have a weapons platform MC for Tau. I've also seen the Armor 12 monstrosity, I loathe that idea, but that's just me, because I know precisely zero players who fear walkers with 12 armor. Everyone I know loves fighting against dreadnaughts, because they die by turn 2 and are a gigantic point waste. No walker/vehicle platform please.
9. Like the idea for anti-psyker, but it's kinda like the melee thing... it's just not Tau's bag. I'd be perfectly content to never get psychic units. We're Tau, have your mind bullets, we have pulse bullets! (but I still like the idea, options are ALWAYS good.)
10. Love the idea for more of the Auxiliary races to be involved. But I don't think they should be Ethereal bodyguards. I think pure Tau would protect their own kind. Let the Hurd and ect be new fast attack choices or whatnot!
11. Maybe the I'm being conservatively shortsighted, but I'd love an MC that's a gun platform, not melee, we don't need a semi-tyranid unit on our team.
12 and 13. Really like both ideas, but Vespid have wings, I don't think they need cavalry to ride, kroot cavalry would be super-boss though, like old dragoon cavalry of olde. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoon
14. yes. Yes! YES! Call in Air Caste template strikes! Ammo/supply drops! Example: large blast template on own men that gives whomever it hits rerolls to hit/wound, or perhaps feel no pain, kind of like really weird HQ-ordered bonuses on your own men (like a very limited but potent version of IG "orders")
15. Can't wait for the Copperhead!
16. Yes, I would love to see Tau specific fortifications, they're one of the few teams that would have a reason to have non-IG fortifications.

Like your ideas for the most part, this is just how I feel about them and my own personal ideas. Feel free to shoot it full of holes.

Since this thread has become discussion about Codex rules rather than rumours, I am going to transfer it to the 40K Proposed Rules forum.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will also add the link to my old "Ideas for 5th edition Tau Codex" article.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Ideas_for_a_5th_edition_Tau_Codex

 Archonate wrote:
Much like Cadians but with superior tactical training instead of the IGs ideology of brute force and mindlessly pushing to take ground.

That's not all the IG does, and the Cadians are among the best-trained regiments in the Imperium. They live on what is effectively a Death World, having Fire Warriors be better because they "train a lot" doesn't make much sense.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Since this thread has become discussion about Codex rules rather than rumours, I am going to transfer it to the 40K Proposed Rules forum.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will also add the link to my old "Ideas for 5th edition Tau Codex" article.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Ideas_for_a_5th_edition_Tau_Codex

Always have to share that right Killkrazy Should I link related discussion thread or you think its out of date?

Bit sad that this got derailed so quick. Good job guys!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What Tau need is more Anti heavy infantry.
Please let stealth suits take rail rifles.

I would rather see them buff sniper teams, maybe give the spotter a bsf and perhaps allow the drones to survive on the spotters death but lose their targetting arrays.
The price may need to be adjusted if markerlight costs change and definately will need some work if plasmaheads become codex but i really like snipers at <1k points i dont think they need much more to become viable in larger games.

Single hardpoint stealth teams would help sniper teams too, by giving you decent anti armour in the elites slot you lessen the need to have it in all three of your heavy slots.

 Archonate wrote:

The Tau codex specifically states that the use of heavy weaponry in their firewarrior squads is against Tau combat doctrine and I'm pretty sure it won't change. Nor should it. FWs should be targeting enemy infantry, not vehicles. They have other units equipped to deal with vehicles.

I'm hoping that FWs will get a new special ability or two to become a little more 'elite guerrilla commando' if you know what I mean. They are, after all, born into a life of combat training. Much like Cadians but with superior tactical training instead of the IGs ideology of brute force and mindlessly pushing to take ground.

Firewarriors may not carry heavy weapons, but nothing stops them from having something like an under barrel EMP grenade launcher. That would be my suggestion, and anything else would have to come in the form of a drone.

what are the rumored stats for the Walker? Will it be more or less survivable compared to regular crisis suits? Would It be better in close combat against small arms fire, or better at long range because it will be less succeptable to outflankers?

The walkers stats are just a few pages forward. It's basically a huge bull's eye to an enemy. It's basically instant death to vehicle and flyer reserves. But it's A11 and two hull points make it as survivable as a piranha.

I would like to think that it's durable, but I can't imagine an enemy letting it survive turn 1. It'll probably cost 175 points.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Archonate wrote:
Much like Cadians but with superior tactical training instead of the IGs ideology of brute force and mindlessly pushing to take ground.

That's not all the IG does, and the Cadians are among the best-trained regiments in the Imperium. They live on what is effectively a Death World, having Fire Warriors be better because they "train a lot" doesn't make much sense.

Cadians are born into military service just like the Fire Caste. Cadia is not a death world, it is a civilized world. Thus, Cadians get their combat experience by being deployed, just like the Fire Caste.
The difference is that Tau are more tactically flexible.
Examples:
IG get shot by their own officers for falling back. Tau accept falling back as a perfectly rational course of action and often use it as a strategy to isolate and eliminate pursuing enemies.
An IG battle plan consists of blundering forward with lots of tanks and infantry. This is why they are known as "The Hammer." (Not very sophisticated, but still damaging.) Whereas the Tau battle plan is more like an elaborate football play.
This is how and why Tau are able to deal with a larger enemy force. Not because they "train a lot", but because they train smarter.
I guess this is all a matter of opinion. But the way I see it, IG are not as well organized as the typical Tau cadre.

One other idea I had for Tau Markerlights (aside from granting skyfire and eliminating old useless abilities they use to grant)

Give markerlights the ability for Precision Shots. It's a simple concept that would be easy to implement:

Lets say I have 10 fire warriors shas'la shooting at a squad of 10 guardsmen with a commisar, I paint the IG squad with 2 marker lights. I can either reduce their cover, raise my BS, or perhaps for each marker on the IG I can attempt one precision shot. So two markerlights on the IG could be any number of combination of them, 1 markerlight gives BS4 shots against the group, and the other 1 designated shot is a p-shot towards any model I choose. ect. for other mix-and match options.

I think "one marker equals one p-shot" is fair and balance, and it compliments the Tau idea of tactically dissasembling opponants. Have 6 markerlights on a a squad of IG with Harker? Harker better start getting ready to make some FNP checks. That Hive Tyrant stomping around with 3 Tyrant Guards? Markerlights + Ion Cannon equals very frusterated Tyrant Guards. (also, maybe allow "Look out sir" at normal level (+4 for normal characters, 2+ for independant characters, to keep it fair... maybe).
Thoughts?

 Archonate wrote:
But the way I see it, IG are not as well organized as the typical Tau cadre.

There's a billion guardsmen (with a B) for every fire warrior. Why bother?

Markerlight = precision shot? Railguns become the absolute best sniper weapon ever.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Markerlight = precision shot? Railguns become the absolute best sniper weapon ever.

... I see how that could be OP, maybe some sort of rule saying that Vehicle guns couldn't utilize the precision shot option?


Oh wait! I know! It allows characters or independant characters to forgo the "must roll a 6" rule, and just lets them get precision shot! There, now no tanks can get it!

 Archonate wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Archonate wrote:
Much like Cadians but with superior tactical training instead of the IGs ideology of brute force and mindlessly pushing to take ground.

That's not all the IG does, and the Cadians are among the best-trained regiments in the Imperium. They live on what is effectively a Death World, having Fire Warriors be better because they "train a lot" doesn't make much sense.

Cadians are born into military service just like the Fire Caste. Cadia is not a death world, it is a civilized world. Thus, Cadians get their combat experience by being deployed, just like the Fire Caste.
The difference is that Tau are more tactically flexible.
Examples:
IG get shot by their own officers for falling back. Tau accept falling back as a perfectly rational course of action and often use it as a strategy to isolate and eliminate pursuing enemies.
An IG battle plan consists of blundering forward with lots of tanks and infantry. This is why they are known as "The Hammer." (Not very sophisticated, but still damaging.) Whereas the Tau battle plan is more like an elaborate football play.
This is how and why Tau are able to deal with a larger enemy force. Not because they "train a lot", but because they train smarter.
I guess this is all a matter of opinion. But the way I see it, IG are not as well organized as the typical Tau cadre.

Cadia is, for all ingens and purpouses, a Death World. Planet-wide permanent combat against Chaos tends to be quite dangerous. Furthermore, what you describe as the one and only IG doctrine is only part of the IG repertoire; for every Valhallan Chenkov-charge there's Elysians, Harakoni Warhawks, Tallarn or Catachan; for every Death Korps of Krieg there's an Armageddon Steel Legion. The Imperial Guard is just as well-trained and flexible as the Fire Caste, trying to hand wave that away with "better training" doesn't sit well with me at all.

Just to talk about the Fire Warrior versus Cadian issue, the point of the game rules is to create different factions which play differently, not a variety of factions which are similar in style but wear different uniforms.

It doesn't matter that Cadians train all their life while Fire Warriors are only militia. What matters is that the Tau codex should offer a different play style with a fair points value.

Fire Warriors are not militia, they are an entire cast devoted to war, as such they too train their whole lives, as such i have no problem with the two armies having generally the same level of training, but that would still be in different doctrines. As was stated earlier Tau aren't big on holding ground and fortifying positions while most imperial guard regimen't work the exact opposite way, Elysians being one of the many exceptions simply on the grounds that the imperium is so fething HUGE.

If marker lights could affect precision shots it would be insane. It would pretty much garuntee that if Tau get the initiative they are also getting first blood and slay the warlord. That and I would take at least three single broadside units that all get the character upgrade.

Now I'm not saying its not an interesting idea, cause I do like it. It just might take a bit to hammer out.

I still kinda think that (non-networked) Markerlights will end up being similar to a Signum, where they become like a Shas'ui upgrade that just gives some sort of hit bonus... I dunno what it could be like really. Maybe just on a 4-6 it makes the squad twin-linked, or reroll 1s?

Networked Markerlights though... those are where the nifty things could be. Missile strikes, night fighting removal, Skyfire, cover save reduction... i think they'll get simplified a lot compared to what they do now.

night fighting removal is kinda of silly when you have a squad upgrade for 3 points. Lets you free up markerlights to make that one turn so devastating.

But really I hope that they change the Markerlight system. I don't think it should be used to increase BS, because then it justifies them giving a shooty army BS3 army wide. That and it'd quit a lot of the useless bickering.
"Oh, firewarriors cost more than a veteran but have way worse stats because they can get BS5. Wish my vets could get BS5. And no special weapons. Ugh. Lucky."

I digress. Markerlights are a nice little gimmick, but I don't think they should be something vital. Like the chaos boon table, to a lesser extent. I really don't like the idea of entire units and most of a FOC being dedicated to one gimmick like that. It just really ruins synergy in the army.

Maybe the Markerlights will give Twin Link or Remove Cover. Simple, efficient boosts that radically can improve the firepower of a lot of units.

I read somewhere about sm scouts getting something like markerlight and they gave twin linked. Tau ones just boosting bs would be crappy in comparison. It also induced much rage as I saw GW blatantly steal stuff from the tau and giving it to sm. Horrible horrible rumour.

I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

Ok, completely random question, but why did this thread get moved to proposed rules? Shouldn't this be in News/Rumors?

Because they always turn into wishlists and discussions of the last 5 years worth of rumours rather than the current news.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

I dunno, I can land have lived without depending on a 4+ hit to then make another unit less sucky. They would have to be OP for me to be interested in using them otherwise they're just wasted points when I could have something actually have a chance to damage an enemy on that 4+ instead.

 agnosto wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

I dunno, I can land have lived without depending on a 4+ hit to then make another unit less sucky. They would have to be OP for me to be interested in using them otherwise they're just wasted points when I could have something actually have a chance to damage an enemy on that 4+ instead.

I felt the same way about Markerlights until I began to field Tetras with Targetting Arrays. The number of Markerlight hits they generate for the cost to field them drastically improves the utility of your Markerlights. If you can work them into your line up, give 'em a try and be amazed at what your Firewarriors and Broadsides do.

Jefffar wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

I dunno, I can land have lived without depending on a 4+ hit to then make another unit less sucky. They would have to be OP for me to be interested in using them otherwise they're just wasted points when I could have something actually have a chance to damage an enemy on that 4+ instead.

I felt the same way about Markerlights until I began to field Tetras with Targetting Arrays. The number of Markerlight hits they generate for the cost to field them drastically improves the utility of your Markerlights. If you can work them into your line up, give 'em a try and be amazed at what your Firewarriors and Broadsides do.

Except for general play or competitive tourney play Tetras are not allowed. (at leat not in my area) so no use getting accustomed to a unit I can't field anywhere but home. While I like what markerlights can do for the army, I think the BS upgrade makes markerlights too much of a target. Keep the things like firing seeker missiles or ignoring cover, but just give the army an Improved bs and watch it work like i should. For right now markerlights are something you can't depend on lasting more than a turn or two (oh that unit buffs your army to shoot better?? well I should kill that then!) and even single Shas'ui markerlights do not work too well.

Paitryn wrote:


Except for general play or competitive tourney play Tetras are not allowed.

What else kind of play is there?

davou wrote:

Paitryn wrote:


Except for general play or competitive tourney play Tetras are not allowed.

What else kind of play is there?

I would guess playing against a waac player. Someone that doesn't want you to use something good basicly

Paitryn wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

I dunno, I can land have lived without depending on a 4+ hit to then make another unit less sucky. They would have to be OP for me to be interested in using them otherwise they're just wasted points when I could have something actually have a chance to damage an enemy on that 4+ instead.

I felt the same way about Markerlights until I began to field Tetras with Targetting Arrays. The number of Markerlight hits they generate for the cost to field them drastically improves the utility of your Markerlights. If you can work them into your line up, give 'em a try and be amazed at what your Firewarriors and Broadsides do.

Except for general play or competitive tourney play Tetras are not allowed. (at leat not in my area) so no use getting accustomed to a unit I can't field anywhere but home. While I like what markerlights can do for the army, I think the BS upgrade makes markerlights too much of a target. Keep the things like firing seeker missiles or ignoring cover, but just give the army an Improved bs and watch it work like i should. For right now markerlights are something you can't depend on lasting more than a turn or two (oh that unit buffs your army to shoot better?? well I should kill that then!) and even single Shas'ui markerlights do not work too well.

This is why I like my local gaming store, the guys down there don't care about winning, it's all about fun. Any chance to see new units is generally accepted, and definitely welcomed!

If this is true then I'm definitely going back to tau! Why must you always pull me back in GW?!

Please just lock this thread already.

uberjoras wrote:
Please just lock this thread already.

No way man, We're getting close!

So nobody knows nothing.

 AresGOW2000 wrote:
So nobody knows nothing.

Double negatives and bringing up a dead thread! Great job.