flamingkillamajig wrote: Oh come on even a force wielding (star wars) wizard of power level 9000 couldn't forsee all that BS. It just so happened they found the ring and then gandalf found out about it's power. It's not like he could forsee all that. He only mildly assumed once the power was used and the writing on the ring was viewed through flame. It's not like Gollum's presence in a cave in the middle of nowhere beneath a goblin lair would be noticed by the forces of good. It was basically right under evil's nose the whole time just like frodo's trek all the way through to mordor. Geez guys we couldn't throw a few guards around the huge freaking volcano within our own fortress walls? You know just on the off chance they sneak their way in even with a small covert force or you know 2 traveller's on a journey through time and space and....well self-exploration of each other ;O. Yes i am hinting at the odd close bond Sam and Frodo got the second they went off on their own away from the fellowship. I know quite a few that joke about the closeness those two shared on their journeys.
He knew Bilbo would be very useful, vital even, to completing the quest to the misty mountains, which would in turn remove Sauron of a powerful ally (Smaug), which would be a very good move in the coming war which he fears- he knows that much. With the ring, no, he didn't know that, but Sauron alongside Smaug could still destroy middle earth anyway.
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flamingkillamajig wrote: You know just on the off chance they sneak their way in even with a small covert force or you know 2 traveller's on a journey through time and space and....well self-exploration of each other ;O. Yes i am hinting at the odd close bond Sam and Frodo got the second they went off on their own away from the fellowship. I know quite a few that joke about the closeness those two shared on their journeys.
few things wrong here:
- they didn't "journey through time and space". They took a long and dangerous trek, that's all.
- Gay jokes, always a good way to go. How many of those people you know who joke about that have read the book? Or is it the same guy who claims Sam sung 20 pages about gandalf fighting the balrog?
- They have a strong bond, you know why? Two best friends with literally no one else for company for nearly a year, both of them risking their lives for each other and everything they hold dear. Just listen to Sam's monologue in the two towers, it really shows what they feel.
- The only way the forces of evil knew of into Mordor was the black gates, which was guarded by tens of thousands of orcs. They, however, went across an unknown path through the dead marshes, straight past Minas Morgul, up some hidden, long forgotten stairs to a giant spider's lair, straight through Cirith Ungol, through an army of at least 10,000 orcs, and then to Mount Doom. Hardly the most obvious or easily guarded route, is it?
Add in the fact that almost all the orcs in mordor went to fight at either Pellenor Fields or the battle at the Black Gate, and that Sam wasn't exactly awful at killing orcs considering what happened in Cirith Ungol, and they would've gotten into mount doom either way.
Goliath wrote: Add in the fact that almost all the orcs in mordor went to fight at either Pellenor Fields or the battle at the Black Gate, and that Sam wasn't exactly awful at killing orcs considering what happened in Cirith Ungol, and they would've gotten into mount doom either way.
Aye, I reckon you'd need several orcs or uruks as guards, and considering their track record of behaving (Shagrat at Cirith Ungol, Grishnakh at Fangorn), they'd probably fight each other, be it over the shiny shirt, the ring, the hobbits themselves or all by themselves.
I think an extreme simplification might be that the wizards in Middle Earth are a mix between Arch-Angels and Demi-Gods. I want to say that in the background Gandalf and Sauron are basically the same kind of being.
Yeah... that's an apt discription.
<inner LoTR geek coming out>
Sauron was a Maia... but, he was the "right-hand" dude for Morgoth (aka, Melkor). The Balrog is also of the Maia... technically a fallen Maia.
Gandalf, Sarumon, Radagash were "Istari", created to guide/protect the creations of Middle-Earth.
They were not the classical D&D wizards... (well, they can be, but that wasn't their role).
flamingkillamajig wrote: Doesn't matter that they cleaned everything as they still barged in unwelcomed and then proceeded to eat his food and completely disregard any respect in the least to bilbo or his property. Not to mention they make fun of him and eat all his food. At the very least if you are going to show up regardless if somebody wants you to or not you should at least let them know you're coming first....except in wars. That'd be mighty odd to let them know you're coming. It's not like they'd warm up a spot by the fire for you...or in the fire. Also being dead is generally not favorable. It's a good thing nobody looted bilbo's house when he was gone. You never really know when you're gone for months at a time.
let me break this down for you:
- They thought Bilbo was expecting them, and didn't find out because of their natural bluntness and lack of politeness.
- There were 13 dwarves, tired from several day's (more likely week's) travelling.
- They don't care for the niceties Bilbo has- the doily, the chest, the fine ale.
So that covers:
- "barging in"
- "eat all his food"
- "let them know you're coming first"
- "disregard bilbo's property"
- "make fun of him."
They did also do the dishes and left the place very nice and clean.
Right, while the Tolkien's dwarves were described as "rough around the edges"... as a race, they had deep sense of honor and integrity. Having those... there's no way they'd leave Bilbo's pad in disarray.
whembly wrote: Right, while the Tolkien's dwarves were described as "rough around the edges"... as a race, they had deep sense of honor and integrity. Having those... there's no way they'd leave Bilbo's pad in disarray.
true, and (forgive me if I'm wrong), but I thought when he woke up, they'd left everything in good order. (Minus, of course, the contents of his pantry)
whembly wrote: Right, while the Tolkien's dwarves were described as "rough around the edges"... as a race, they had deep sense of honor and integrity. Having those... there's no way they'd leave Bilbo's pad in disarray.
true, and (forgive me if I'm wrong), but I thought when he woke up, they'd left everything in good order. (Minus, of course, the contents of his pantry)
Indeed, and thats why Bilbo half believed it was just a unpleasent dream he'd had when he woke up the next morning.
flamingkillamajig wrote: You know just on the off chance they sneak their way in even with a small covert force or you know 2 traveller's on a journey through time and space and....well self-exploration of each other ;O. Yes i am hinting at the odd close bond Sam and Frodo got the second they went off on their own away from the fellowship. I know quite a few that joke about the closeness those two shared on their journeys.
few things wrong here:
- Gay jokes, always a good way to go. How many of those people you know who joke about that have read the book? Or is it the same guy who claims Sam sung 20 pages about gandalf fighting the balrog?
- They have a strong bond, you know why? Two best friends with literally no one else for company for nearly a year, both of them risking their lives for each other and everything they hold dear. Just listen to Sam's monologue in the two towers, it really shows what they feel.
The people that usually joke about that have never been in a situation where they routinely lay their lives on the line with a specific group of people. I would imagine any soldier would be able to identify with their relationship.
flamingkillamajig wrote: You know just on the off chance they sneak their way in even with a small covert force or you know 2 traveller's on a journey through time and space and....well self-exploration of each other ;O. Yes i am hinting at the odd close bond Sam and Frodo got the second they went off on their own away from the fellowship. I know quite a few that joke about the closeness those two shared on their journeys.
few things wrong here:
- Gay jokes, always a good way to go. How many of those people you know who joke about that have read the book? Or is it the same guy who claims Sam sung 20 pages about gandalf fighting the balrog?
- They have a strong bond, you know why? Two best friends with literally no one else for company for nearly a year, both of them risking their lives for each other and everything they hold dear. Just listen to Sam's monologue in the two towers, it really shows what they feel.
The people that usually joke about that have never been in a situation where they routinely lay their lives on the line with a specific group of people. I would imagine any soldier would be able to identify with their relationship.
I can quasi-confirm that. Still, while I see the why of the jokes with the movies, the books never lead me to interpret it that way or made me think of gay jokes. Perhaps it's how it was translated to the screen.
d-usa wrote: The people that usually joke about that have never been in a situation where they routinely lay their lives on the line with a specific group of people. I would imagine any soldier would be able to identify with their relationship.
I also find it annoying how some people can't seem to comprehend that there's different types of love other than sexual, one of which is the kind of almost brotherly love formed in a strong friendship which frodo and sam had for each other (same with Merry and Pippin too, actually).
but yeah, back to the hobbit- how many of us can name them from seeing them on screen?
Here's my method: Thorin- leader. Not much else really, we all know that one. Dwalin- Bald guy. Balin- Old guy. Kili- Good looking guy. Fili- The other good looking guy. Ori- Mister Monk. Nori- Mister Mohawk. Dori- Mister Moustache. Bifur- "WHAT YEAR IS IT?!" Bofur- lovable irish chap with the funny hat Bombur- Fat guy. Oin- Mister Curly beard. Gloin- the most generic dwarf.
d-usa wrote: The people that usually joke about that have never been in a situation where they routinely lay their lives on the line with a specific group of people. I would imagine any soldier would be able to identify with their relationship.
I also find it annoying how some people can't seem to comprehend that there's different types of love other than sexual, one of which is the kind of almost brotherly love formed in a strong friendship which frodo and sam had for each other (same with Merry and Pippin too, actually).
but yeah, back to the hobbit- how many of us can name them from seeing them on screen?
Here's my method:
Thorin- leader. Not much else really, we all know that one.
Dwalin- Bald guy.
Balin- Old guy.
Kili- Good looking guy.
Fili- The other good looking guy.
Ori- Mister Monk.
Nori- Mister Mohawk.
Dori- Mister Moustache.
Bifur- "WHAT YEAR IS IT?!"
Bofur- lovable irish chap with the funny hat
Bombur- Fat guy.
Oin- Mister Curly beard.
Gloin- the most generic dwarf.
Thorin
Dwalin
Fili
Kili
Oin
Gloin
Nori
Ori
Bfur
Bombur
nope. That's it.
on a kinda unrelated note, GW stuffed up the main mission (the new introductory mission in-store) in the new boxed set.
Why is Bilbo included in the mission? At the time he was with Golem :S...
Matt.Kingsley wrote: on a kinda unrelated note, GW stuffed up the main mission (the new introductory mission in-store) in the new boxed set.
Why is Bilbo included in the mission? At the time he was with Golem :S...
well they couldn't really have a mission about riddles (or have gollum in goblin town), but they couldn't not have Bilbo either.
Frazzled wrote: I think Bofur was Canadian? he sure acts like it and the took is kind of a giveaway. Which one is the mentally challenged one?
Bifur, due to the axe sticking out of his forehead.
Nah, Bofur is played by James Nesbitt, who is very Northern Irish, and used the accent in the film.
Frazzled wrote: I think Bofur was Canadian? he sure acts like it and the took is kind of a giveaway. Which one is the mentally challenged one?
Bifur, due to the axe sticking out of his forehead.
Nah, Bofur is played by James Nesbitt, who is very Northern Irish, and used the accent in the film.
aye, Bofur is my favourite so far... that voice... now, I'm not gay, but if I was a chick, I'd probably have a bit of a crush on him...
They do actually. In Newfoundland and Nova Scotia, the settlers were predominantly Scottish and Irish. The ulster accent sounds a lot like a scottish accent in some ways, and even parts of the south of ireland have a similar twang.
Apparently (according to friends who've visited newfoundland and one who lives in Nova Scotia) the accents remain really close to those regions.
It was fantastic.
Was it the same as the book? No.
Were the changes for the better? In my opinion, definitely.
The part that really is going to stick with me from it was the way that they managed to use the soundtrack so evocatively, much like they did in the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy. The thing that immediately sticks out to me is how they worked the piece "Over The Misty Mountains Cold" in the scenes with the Dwarfs. It worked so beautifully, and what's more...it felt so different to when the Company are singing it in Bagend as a dirge/lament.
Kanluwen wrote: The part that really is going to stick with me from it was the way that they managed to use the soundtrack so evocatively, much like they did in the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy. The thing that immediately sticks out to me is how they worked the piece "Over The Misty Mountains Cold" in the scenes with the Dwarfs. It worked so beautifully, and what's more...it felt so different to when the Company are singing it in Bagend as a dirge/lament.
definitely, that's a highlight of the film for me too- shivers when that came on
I'll sound in on this one. I liked....well, I guess the locations.
I'm still heartbroken that Guillermo del Toro wasn't able to continue working on it. At least he would have treated it with quiet dignity(probably), rather than loud, stupidity.
Grimnoc wrote: I'll sound in on this one. I liked....well, I guess the locations.
I'm still heartbroken that Guillermo del Toro wasn't able to continue working on it. At least he would have treated it with quiet dignity(probably), rather than loud, stupidity.
-Guillermo is still working on it, but as assistant director or some similar position.
-Jackson treated it like a less serious lord of the rings, which, in effect, it was.
Grimnoc wrote: I'll sound in on this one. I liked....well, I guess the locations.
I'm still heartbroken that Guillermo del Toro wasn't able to continue working on it. At least he would have treated it with quiet dignity(probably), rather than loud, stupidity.
And it would have been R rated with gratuitous violence and grossness...
Earlier today, HISHE (How It Should Have Ended) released a video for the hobbit:
I tend to quite like their videos either for exposing movie plotholes or making jokes, but I'm not sure if it's my LotR-fangirl level of loyalty that's made me not like the lord of the rings or the hobbit HISHEs- The loopholes in them not only are by no means original (having been said by every smart-arse who's ever had anything to do with LotR), but also aren't actually loopholes- I can't be bothered going into the reasons behind why the eagles don't just fly them there (apparently "because that wouldn't be much of an adventure, would it?" isn't good enough), and they're not even funny, just stupid. /rant.
The whole gay thing between Sam and Frodo comes from Clerks 2.
That being said after seeing that movie and seeing the way Rudy looks at Elijah in the scene where Green Street Hooligans wakes up, it's pretty funny either way.
That being said after seeing that movie and seeing the way Rudy looks at Elijah in the scene where Green Street Hooligans wakes up, it's pretty funny either way.
The whole gay thing between Sam and Frodo comes from the ridiculous sexual tension between them...
I mean in the films, it's completely absent from the books.
Oh very much agreed. But that has way more to do with Elijah Wood's enormous, soulful eyes and Rudy's (cant remember the actor Sean Astin maybe?) acting than any real gay tension. And Clerks 2 definitely brought it to the fore front.
Well that and the slow motion zoom in of Samwise's lips saying "share the load" in RotK lol.
I mean in the films, it's completely absent from the books.
Sorry, still don't see it. Just two best friends who have to face a horrifying and difficult task together, despite being sheltered country bumpkins who like to eat too much. Hell I think because of that, I would rank Sam as being braver in his own way than Aragorn for what he pulls through and accomplishes, and likely the same for Bilbo. At least Aragorn was raised to face the trials of a ranger with combat training.
I mean in the films, it's completely absent from the books.
Sorry, still don't see it. Just two best friends who have to face a horrifying and difficult task together, despite being sheltered country bumpkins who like to eat too much. Hell I think because of that, I would rank Sam as being braver in his own way than Aragorn for what he pulls through and accomplishes, and likely the same for Bilbo. At least Aragorn was raised to face the trials of a ranger with combat training.
I mean in the films, it's completely absent from the books.
Oh very much agreed. But that has way more to do with Elijah Wood's enormous, soulful eyes and Rudy's (cant remember the actor Sean Astin maybe?) acting than any real gay tension. And Clerks 2 definitely brought it to the fore front.
Yeah, the supposedly gay tension between them isn't actually anything to with the script, storyline or anything really apart from Elijah's acting. Don't blame Astin though- he plays the part of the incredibly loyal simplistic friend perfectly.
This is sort of related, what with the slight music tangent. Saw the teaser for Man of Steel again recently and finally recognized the music; they used "The Bridge of Khazad Dum" by Howard Shore. It seemed familiar but I never could quite place it initially.
Ahtman wrote: This is sort of related, what with the slight music tangent. Saw the teaser for Man of Steel again recently and finally recognized the music; they used "The Bridge of Khazad Dum" by Howard Shore. It seemed familiar but I never could quite place it initially.
recognised it in the first 3 seconds or so ...I've seen the fellowship too many times as what should be good for me
In something of an attempt to prevent this thread going under for a little while longer, I recently bought the behind-the-scenes book by weta workshop (written before final release), which talks about Gandalf meeting a younger Bilbo at his grandfather, the Old Took's, birthday, and being impressed that he didn't run away from a dragon Gandalf conjured to scare the other kids, as well as talking quite a lot about the green dragon and market, which IIRC doesn't appear in the hobbit.
This is good news, because it means there'll be an extended edition
Further reasons why you shouldn't walk:
- They're practically demi-gods, they don't do favours.
- Mordor has flying beasts too- pretty easy to flick a hobbit off an eagle's back...
- It'd make a pretty crap book if they flew, wouldn't it?
Narrowly avoiding threadomancy here, but I just stumbled across the list of which films are nominated for which oscars, and was stunned by the hobbit's lack of nominations.
Nominated for:
Best production design
Best visual effects
Best Makeup and hairstyling
Other categories I'd have thought it would get nominated for:
Best costume design
Best original song
Best original score
Best cinematography
Now, I know I'm something of a fanboy on this matter, but I like to think I can set my opinions to one side if I want to. I thought the hobbit had about the same quality soundtrack as the lord of the rings trilogy did (which was amazing), which earnt Howard Shore four oscars.
It's a similar thing with costume design (which was maybe even better), which earnt two nominations previously, cinematography (another oscar), and I thought Martin Freeman deserved at least a nomination for best leading role.
I know the academy award members are fairly notorious for snubbing films widely and deservedly known as successes, but is it just my fanhood talking, or are you guys surprised by this too?
Yeah, I agree. The Hobbit should have been Nominated for best original song and best soundtrack, as well as best cinematography. Costume design was good too.
