I think it's quite a good thing to point out that this kind of attack is and has been a fact of life elsewhere in the world. We Americans would do well to consider that as the coverage ramps up, not because any American lives lost or disrupted are less valuable for that reason, but because events like these should make us think critically rather than self-righteously.
So you're saying throwing a trillion dollars or so around every time someone does something bad in this country isn't the way to go?
Go back to Russia Manchu!
The Dark Apostle wrote: Kronk how was I being trollish? I worded my sentence badly, but Manchu corrected me. Think of other countries, and how much they suffer, this morning in Pakistan, 12 people were killed in a very similar incident to that in Boston. In a year today, I won't be seeing a memorial to them will I?
You came accross as saying this isn't a big deal and should feel bad for being shocked becauce these things don't happen here very often. Which is rather offensive and could easily be seen as trolling for a reaction.
Grey Templar wrote: You came accross as saying this isn't a big deal and should feel bad for being shocked becauce these things don't happen here very often. Which is rather offensive and could easily be seen as trolling for a reaction.
The original posts didn't read as being polite, nor friendly, to me but its obviously not my call to make.
Massachusetts General Hospital have just had a press conference saying that they are confident that there should be no further loss of life. They praised the surgeons and doctors, including those who had previously served in the military in Iraq and Afghanistan who had experience treating the type of wounds the victims had.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Massachusetts General Hospital have just had a press conference saying that they are confident that there should be no further loss of life. They praised the surgeons and doctors, including those who had previously served in the military in Iraq and Afghanistan who had experience treating the type of wounds the victims had.
This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco. Well, regardless of whether somebody like McVeigh did this, McVeigh's ideas did not die with him. Here we have a bombing on tax day, a.k.a., "Patriot's Day" where the bombing took place. There is a very strong and open anti-government rhetoric in this country and I think part of the reason we Americans are so cavalier about our rhetoric is we don't pay much attention to other countries where that rhetoric more frequently turns into violence.
It seemed to me his post was neither polite nor friendly, but was under no obligation to do so. He pointed out (Quite accurately) that Americans are getting upset over the deaths of innocents while similar occurrences both before and since the marathon get almost no media coverage.
Frankly, I find it somewhat offensive that you all are getting upset at him for simply pointing out that had this occurred in Senegal or Palestine instead of within the US itself, there likely would have shrugged shoulders and mumbled dismissals all around when at the watercooler the next day. Loss of life is tragic regardless of circumstance, and being upset that someone pointed out the arguably callous nature of ignoring tragedies outside your own border is just petty.
EDIT: The news about the casualties is heartening. I noticed the sheer volume of people delivering first aid, and fairly quickly as well, and I suspect this will also come to light as also being a major reason why there was no further loss of life despite the numerous horrendous injuries.
The Dark Apostle wrote: From what I've seen they offer little,
A few days ago a house was invaded by the IRA, a man was tied down and shot infront of his families, America has been silent.
I have alot of anger towards America on numerous things and I'm sorry for putting my anger out like this, I'll delete the comment.
I'm trying to understand why you you're angry at the US for it. The US has nothing to do with the IRA, or Ireland for that matter. Indeed, until a discussion on this board a few weeks ago, I didn't even know the IRA still existed.
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The Dark Apostle wrote: That's a good idea, I think I should make a thread showing all the trouble that goes on in the world that you SHOULD be hearing..... Thank you
Make one. I'll troll it like you're trolling this one mayhaps. .
"A bomb went off in Ireland?
Big deal, we have our own problems!":
Someone would say, if they were a complete and utter gak heap.
darkPrince010 wrote: It seemed to me his post was neither polite nor friendly, but was under no obligation to do so. He pointed out (Quite accurately) that Americans are getting upset over the deaths of innocents while similar occurrences both before and since the marathon get almost no media coverage.
Frankly, I find it somewhat offensive that you all are getting upset at him for simply pointing out that had this occurred in Senegal or Palestine instead of within the US itself, there likely would have shrugged shoulders and mumbled dismissals all around when at the watercooler the next day. Loss of life is tragic regardless of circumstance, and being upset that someone pointed out the arguably callous nature of ignoring tragedies outside your own border is just petty.
Petty, eh? That's pretty ironic from someone defending statements of an arguably callous nature.
Manchu wrote: This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco.
EDIT: And I would agree with your assessment of that person being a gak heap.
Simply edited this to show I wasn't trying to imply you actually meant this, just that it was odd you would not find that being petty, despite having said in your own post that is seemed gakky.
Manchu wrote: This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco. Well, regardless of whether somebody like McVeigh did this, McVeigh's ideas did not die with him. Here we have a bombing on tax day, a.k.a., "Patriot's Day" where the bombing took place. There is a very strong and open anti-government rhetoric in this country and I think part of the reason we Americans are so cavalier about our rhetoric is we don't pay much attention to other countries where that rhetoric more frequently turns into violence.
Maybe we should wait until more details get released instead of trying to pin point blame just yet. The police, FBI and other federal authorities are still investigating and have not said who is responsible yet.
The police have confirmed though that the Saudi national that they spoke with yesterday is "not considered a suspect"
Monster Rain wrote: That's not basically a paraphrase of what the person you're defending said?
The quote? No that's a direct quote from the police as reported on the news through the link I provided above. I can see were that may have caused confusion, apologies I should have been clearer.
Well which do you expect someone to pay more attention to?
Something that happened in their country just now effecting a major international event or something in a tiny country accross the ocean thats been having little spats over the past century.
Manchu wrote: This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco. Well, regardless of whether somebody like McVeigh did this, McVeigh's ideas did not die with him. Here we have a bombing on tax day, a.k.a., "Patriot's Day" where the bombing took place. There is a very strong and open anti-government rhetoric in this country and I think part of the reason we Americans are so cavalier about our rhetoric is we don't pay much attention to other countries where that rhetoric more frequently turns into violence.
Well thats certainly stirring the pot. I'm sure nothing bad will happen now...
Manchu wrote: This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco.
Going with a subtle racist angle now?
Er, no? I don't think McVeigh was a racist -- or at least, he explicitly disavowed racism. I don't think these Boston attacks had anything to do with racism, either. My point is, people in countries where these attacks are more frequent don't have to look far overseas to find the culprits. They are more aware of the violent unrest at home than Americans seem to be. We have a tendency to dismiss public violence as either international terror or mental illness. McVeigh is a good example of how such assumptions can be dead wrong. This attack, undertaken on tax day and entailing crude, small bombs, fits the domestic terror profile from what I've heard on the news.
Grey Templar wrote: Well which do you expect someone to pay more attention to?
Something that happened in their country just now effecting a major international event or something in a tiny country accross the ocean thats been having little spats over the past century.
I am saddened by how little you apparently care about loss of life in other countries. Your attention isn't a zero-sum game; You can care about events in other countries as well as your own, and no-one is stopping you from being upset at both tragedies equally.
Manchu wrote: This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco. Well, regardless of whether somebody like McVeigh did this, McVeigh's ideas did not die with him. Here we have a bombing on tax day, a.k.a., "Patriot's Day" where the bombing took place. There is a very strong and open anti-government rhetoric in this country and I think part of the reason we Americans are so cavalier about our rhetoric is we don't pay much attention to other countries where that rhetoric more frequently turns into violence.
Yeah, there are plenty of better targets for a racially motivated terrorist.
Thats also kinda why I'm not sure about the anti-government terrorist angle. You think an anti-government terrorist would blow up a public building like a courthouse or IRS office, not a sporting event.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah, there are plenty of better targets for a racially motivated terrorist.
Thats also kinda why I'm not sure about the anti-government terrorist angle. You think an anti-government terrorist would blow up a public building like a courthouse or IRS office, not a sporting event.
Exactly. Home grown (aka nonIslamic) will go after government, the opposing party, or some focal point.
Jihadi - anything that kills the most people in the most public manner.
Could be a serial killer type as well, but more doubtful. Pulling off delivery of multiple bombs takes more effort. has happened before though, and with more fatalities.
Grey Templar wrote: Well which do you expect someone to pay more attention to?
Something that happened in their country just now effecting a major international event or something in a tiny country accross the ocean thats been having little spats over the past century.
I am saddened by how little you apparently care about loss of life in other countries. Your attention isn't a zero-sum game; You can care about events in other countries as well as your own, and no-one is stopping you from being upset at both tragedies equally.
I like how you assume I don't care about other countries.
I'm just saying its perfectly natural to care more about what happened in your country than whats happening elsewhere and thats its wrong of you to belittle someone for thinking that.
I didn't say that whats happening elsewhere doesn't matter and that I don't care. I do, I just care more about Americans. No, it isn't zero sum. Its more like 95-5, I care 95% about America and 5% about the rest of the world at this point in time.
darkPrince010 wrote: Frankly, I find it somewhat offensive that you all are getting upset at him for simply pointing out that had this occurred in Senegal or Palestine
That's not at all what his first post said and that's the post I reported. Don't paint people with such broad brushes or jump to conclusions and you'll be fine.
The topic here is the tragedy in Boston, the news that is coming out, and the response of the first aid personnel to the victims and the response of the investigators to the perpetrators.
I find the "What about [INSERT COUNTRY]?" posts to be seriously off-topic. But hey, what do I know?
kronk wrote: The topic here is the tragedy in Boston, the news that is coming out, and the response of the first aid personnel to the victims and the response of the investigators to the perpetrators.
I find the "What about [INSERT COUNTRY]?" posts to be seriously off-topic. But hey, what do I know?
Pretty much. I don't understand the what-about-ery either, or the need to bring it up here instead of another thread.
The Dark Apostle wrote: Grey Templar, it is natural to care more about your own country, but to show an almost blatant disregard for the happenings in many is bad.
Manchu wrote: This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco.
Going with a subtle racist angle now?
Er, no? I don't think McVeigh was a racist -- or at least, he explicitly disavowed racism. I don't think these Boston attacks had anything to do with racism, either. My point is, people in countries where these attacks are more frequent don't have to look far overseas to find the culprits. They are more aware of the violent unrest at home than Americans seem to be. We have a tendency to dismiss public violence as either international terror or mental illness. McVeigh is a good example of how such assumptions can be dead wrong. This attack, undertaken on tax day and entailing crude, small bombs, fits the domestic terror profile from what I've heard on the news.
The Dark Apostle wrote: Grey Templar, it is natural to care more about your own country, but to show an almost blatant disregard for the happenings in many is bad.
Saying that "I'm sorry that this happened in Boston, MA USA" is not the same as saying "I'm not sorry at all about your country's plight at all."
The fact that this happened in a highly populated city, on a holiday, at the finish line of a very popular sporting event makes this an absolutely shocking event. Of course it's getting a lot of media attention.
EDIT: Make a post about the incident(s) in your country that you feel needs attention. I'll make a point to give you my thoughts, and condolences, as warranted. Understand that I'm not upset at you The DA. Just confused about your choice in moving this conversation into something else entirely.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah, there are plenty of better targets for a racially motivated terrorist.
Thats also kinda why I'm not sure about the anti-government terrorist angle. You think an anti-government terrorist would blow up a public building like a courthouse or IRS office, not a sporting event.
Exactly. Home grown (aka nonIslamic) will go after government, the opposing party, or some focal point.
Jihadi - anything that kills the most people in the most public manner.
Could be a serial killer type as well, but more doubtful. Pulling off delivery of multiple bombs takes more effort. has happened before though, and with more fatalities.
Home grown can still easily be radicalised Islamists, and is becoming the favoured tool of our fav Terror group and their off-shoots.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah, there are plenty of better targets for a racially motivated terrorist.
Thats also kinda why I'm not sure about the anti-government terrorist angle. You think an anti-government terrorist would blow up a public building like a courthouse or IRS office, not a sporting event.
Again, I don't think there's anything pointing at a racial motivation here. As to the target, I don't think we're necessarily talking about the sporting event so much as the city itself. Seems to me the attack was on the public and the sporting event was just what drew the public there. That's still pretty ambivalent in terms of whether the culprit is more of a McVeigh type or more of a Faisal Shahzad type.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah, there are plenty of better targets for a racially motivated terrorist.
Thats also kinda why I'm not sure about the anti-government terrorist angle. You think an anti-government terrorist would blow up a public building like a courthouse or IRS office, not a sporting event.
Again, I don't think there's anything pointing at a racial motivation here. As to the target, I don't think we're necessarily talking about the sporting event so much as the city itself. Seems to me the attack was on the public and the sporting event was just what drew the public there. That's still pretty ambivalent in terms of whether the culprit is more of a McVeigh type or more of a Faisal Shahzad type.
I suppose. We can think too hard about the motivation and thinking there must be symbolisim in the event attacked.
Grey Templar wrote: And what makes you think we are disregarding them? Much less disregarding them intentionally?
Maybe I misread him but I don't think DA was talking about people ITT specifically. Rather, he was talking about the American media. And can anyone really dispute that when attacks like this happen in other countries they often get little or no coverage in the USA? I mean, what makes an attack in Dublin local news and an attack in Boston international news? It's a good question.
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Grey Templar wrote: We can think too hard about the motivation and thinking there must be symbolisim in the event attacked.
Both domestic and international terrorists seem to care a lot about that sort of thing, however.
Following the last page of this thread to its logical conclusion, no one is allowed to be more sad about a death than any other given the carnage that happens every second. If you aren't tearing your clothes and sobbing for the 30 people that died in the space it took you to read this you are a rank hypocrite.
kronk wrote: Just confused about your choice in moving this conversation into something else entirely.
But his point isn't about something else entirely. He's wondering about this particular incident in relation to other similar ones that happened elsewhere.
to stop the high levels of off-topic traffic here is a thread to discuss news that probably wont get good media coverage, but are equal or worse to current happenings.
As the news media themselves said, the Boston Marathon is a big worldwide event. IIRC they said second only to the Olympics in many respects.
That alone automatically qualifies it as international news, people from all around the world participate. They mentioned that in some places in Africa in particular this is a big deal.
Then we have that it happened in the US, not often that there is a terror attack here. Just makes it a little more news worthy because of it being out of the ordinary.
Every single one of you in this thread making stupid with your typing to say 'isn't it gakky that Americans only care when it's one of their cities that gets bombed' should really consider that all suffering is relative.
I think cancer is terrible, I generally go about my business and don't worry about it though, I might watch a news article on it or I might change the channel so I can watch King of the Hill. If I hear that someone in Thailand has woken up today with cancer, I will feel a modicum of sympathy, if I read on facebook that a friend of a friend has cancer, I will feel more sympathy and perhaps offer a condolence note to my friend asking if I can help, if I am told over the phone that a friend I've known for years has just come back from the doctor's with the news they have cancer and it's incurable, I will be devastated.
This bombing is important to Americans because it happened in America, that doesn't make Americans cold to the horrible things going on right now everywhere else, just more concerned that their own homes may now not be safe, that their friends and family might have been injured or killed or that it happened to people they can more readily identify with and therefore empathize more closely with through shared national identity, language and culture. That doesn't make them monsters, that makes them human.
Hey, 'IRA is terrible' guy, it could be really easily argued that you are selfish, going on about some guy killed by the IRA when there are hundreds of thousands of people languishing in North Korean prison camps and suffering terrible human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia, the Yemen, China etc, aren't you a terrible person for going on about the IRA and just one man, just because you're in Ireland...
... pssst, or maybe that has a greater degree of significance on your list of priorities, not because you are a callous fethtard, but because you are just near to it and feel it deeper.
Now, all you clever chaps, take your 'Scoring points at Frank the ex Democrat guy because I'm not a Democrat and I hate Democrats more than pedos' or 'You're bad for being American and being selfish because other things happened' and most especially, most assuredly you 'Well, in the greater context of the world, this is a fairly minor explosion so, you know, don't be going overboard', I'd really like it if you stop, at least in this thread.
Because this.
This is human blood smeared all over the floor by an explosive, planted in an inner city area attended by huge numbers of families at a sporting event during a holiday. The explosives were designed to inflict massive wounding. Again, to remind you as you conjure ways to strike at your political enemies over this or try to dismiss it as minor or want to attack the nation this went on in because you don't like their foreign policy or whatever banner you've come to this thread to wave and tout.
This is human blood, smeared all over the floor by an explosive, your argument is fething invalid. I passed some of these people, the ones the bits of red on the floor used to belong to, yesterday and I am imploring you to stop peddling crap in this thread.
So, lets just show some decorum, some small measure of class, just this once.
I don't think that Manchu's statement has anything to do with racism, he just rightly points out that during events like that we usually assume that somebody did this to us, instead of us doing it to ourselves.
Hence the reason why everybody jumps on the "this looks like AQ" bandwagon, or the reason why everybody reported "the police are talking to a Saudi national". There was an interestic statistic in the news today that the majority of bomb plots stopped since 9/11 have been orchestrated by domestic groups, with Jihadist groups coming in second. But who do we suspect first?
Let me give you my first hand experience in this:
In 2002 I was going through nursing school, and during my clinical rotation in the ICU I was taking care of a native american patient who would only speak his native language. He grew up speaking the language of his tribe but he could speak perfect English prior to his accident. When I asked about that the doctors told me that sometimes, during traumatic incidents such at that, a person can revert back to his first language.
About a month later my school, together with another university, participated in a mass-casualty drill & terrorist attack drill. The scenario was that evil terrorists caused an accident on the interstate, wrecked a tractor trailer filled with anhydrous ammonia that was contaminating the scene, and that there was a secondary explosive in the trunk of one of the vehicles next to our wrecked school bus, there were no terrorists on scene. All the agencies (Fire Departments, Highway Patrol, local sheriff) knew was that it was an accident that was suspicious with lots of victims.
I was a victim with a broken leg and arm hanging halfway out of the school bus and also had a camera with me to take pictures for the student paper. When the firefighters got to me I spoke only German to them (remembering the native american guy) since that could very well be a real thing that I would be doing in a situation like that. Not knowing what I was saying the firefighter moved on to the next victim. Within a few minutes more firefighters came by, placed me on a backboard, strapped me down, and left me there. Over the radios I could hear that they said that they had the suspected terrorist and before I knew it the bomb disposal robot was going through my camera bag.
The agency failed their test because once they got to the foreign guy they thought that they had the non-existing terrorist and they quit securing the scene and they never did find the bomb in the car.
So my personal experience is that the "foreign bad guys did this until proven otherwise" mindset can exist.
Seconded. Look, irrespective of your political or social thinking, this is a thread about a tragedy that happened. People died, a lot more were injured, and a city is in shock.
The thread is dedicated to that, and as a result, that is the topic of the thread; bringing up other tragedies is therefore off-topic, unless it's by comparison.
Enough with the point-scoring, it's not big and it's not clever.
Grey Templar wrote: Then we have that it happened in the US, not often that there is a terror attack here. Just makes it a little more news worthy because of it being out of the ordinary.
I actually think that is the real issue. From without and within, there is an attitude about the US that it is safe from political violence and that is pretty true in a certain sense. But I also think that a lot of American violence is political and that political dimension is often washed out as insanity. From a certain POV, the contemporary IRA are simply sociopaths. Their organization, however, seems to belie that POV. Well, what if whoever did this was acting alone? If so, will we see this sort of spectacle at the trial:
Looking abroad, I'm also thinking of Anders Brevik here. That guy has been largely passed of as a simple lunatic in his country -- and we know the prosecutors there wanted to take that angle as a way of dismissing him. If they called him a terrorist, people might think he had a perspective even if it was a strange one. Looking back to McVeigh, yeah, what does it take to kill so many people? He must have been crazy in some sense. Same with Brevik. But this brand of crazy does strike me as having more to do with the insanity of political violence, whether perpetrated by one man or global organizations.
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d-usa wrote: that during events like that we usually assume that somebody did this to us, instead of us doing it to ourselves.
That's well put, better than I had been saying it I think.
I don't know if this is foreign or domestic, so I'm not speculating on either. IF they used cell phones to detonate the bombs... well, I don't know how difficult that technology is to pull off. TV and movies =/= real life.
Maybe 5 guys in the US could do that by pooling resources, or maybe it takes REAL money, perhaps from oversees.
I don't know, either way. My knee-jerk reaction from last night's report that a Saudi man was being interviewed and people piling on Facebook that it was a foreigner was to think of Richard Jewell and people jumping to conclusions. This isn't our first rodeo. Let's see how things develop before pointing blame and attacking someone at Kroger's because they "look foreign" (re: people post 911 attacking foreigners).
Manchu wrote: This whole thing reminds me of 1995 when we were convinced we were looking for Pakistanis in the wake of the Oklahoma city bombings. And of course it turned out to be Tim McVeigh instead because he was mad about Waco.
Going with a subtle racist angle now?
Er, no? I don't think McVeigh was a racist -- or at least, he explicitly disavowed racism. I don't think these Boston attacks had anything to do with racism, either. My point is, people in countries where these attacks are more frequent don't have to look far overseas to find the culprits. They are more aware of the violent unrest at home than Americans seem to be. We have a tendency to dismiss public violence as either international terror or mental illness. McVeigh is a good example of how such assumptions can be dead wrong. This attack, undertaken on tax day and entailing crude, small bombs, fits the domestic terror profile from what I've heard on the news.
kronk wrote: Let's see how things develop before pointing blame and attacking someone at Kroger's because they "look foreign"
Yes, exactly so. I think that's why the President was so circumspect with his statement yesterday. There is a lot of violence in this country, political and otherwise. The fact that we have little idea about who did this or why is kind of frightening in that context. It could have been someone from almost any background. It could have been someone with any variety of grievance.
Eh... the media will always decide what's more important and what is not... on the BBC there is more coverage about Thatcher rather than the Boston attacks.
kronk wrote: I don't know if this is foreign or domestic, so I'm not speculating on either. IF they used cell phones to detonate the bombs... well, I don't know how difficult that technology is to pull off. TV and movies =/= real life.
Maybe 5 guys in the US could do that by pooling resources, or maybe it takes REAL money, perhaps from oversees.
I don't know, either way. My knee-jerk reaction from last night's report that a Saudi man was being interviewed and people piling on Facebook that it was a foreigner was to think of Richard Jewell and people jumping to conclusions. This isn't our first rodeo. Let's see how things develop before pointing blame and attacking someone at Kroger's because they "look foreign" (re: people post 911 attacking foreigners).
I just heard that pressure cookers inside of bags were used to detonate the explosives. The same type of device was used in the London Bombings a few years ago. It's a commonly used device though, worldwide.
Still don't know who is responsible, but we're getting more and more clues.
captain collius wrote: I'm a noted right-wing person on these forums but I must say that the First responders of Boston have been heroic in everything they have done.
President Obama who I do not like has been out front and done a superlative job.
To MGS and anyone else who was in that area or knew someone who was I am so glad to hear that everyone is alright
As the President himself said, these sorts of things transcend political boundaries, and judging by the comments on here and my own feelings on the matter, national ones too.
Though some'll try to take advantage - they always do - the vast majority of people will keep a stiff upper lip, to use the age-old cliche, and show the people responsible that they will not be cowed.
The best response to terrorists is to show that they have no power over you, and carry on defiantly in the face of their actions.
Exactly I just feel that many people take a political leaning to be a hatred of the other side when this is not true.
Also Keep Calm and Carry On is always the order of the day.
I just heard that pressure cookers inside of bags were used to detonate the explosives. The same type of device was used in the London Bombings a few years ago. It's a commonly used device though, worldwide.
Still don't know who is responsible, but we're getting more and more clues.
If that's the case, it certainly makes domestic plausible if not probable. Can't say for certain until someone's in hand cuffs or someone steps up and claims responsibility.
Following the last page of this thread to its logical conclusion, no one is allowed to be more sad about a death than any other given the carnage that happens every second. If you aren't tearing your clothes and sobbing for the 30 people that died in the space it took you to read this you are a rank hypocrite.
How very utilitarian of you. Of course, a reasonable counterpoint is to question whether that equality is absolute, or if there are tragedies that ultimately should be considered less tragic (such as those who make their own bed, so to speak... like Timothy Treadwell, to give you a non-political example)
Also: BAM! Snuck some "blame the victim" into this thread (because it's Dakka, after all).
Anyway, the roundabout point I'm trying to get at is we all live in and as part of communities, and our locus of familiarity will always give us a bias that some people are more important, subjectively, to us than others. There's no point in calling someone a hypocrite, because we all are in that respect. And we're generally all okay with that, too.
Now, to answer the original question: attacks in Boston, MA get more attention globally than does an attack in Dublin, Ireland because terrorist attacks in Boston are thankfully very rare occurances; whereas Dublin has seen its fair share of attacks. To put it bluntly: dog-bites-man isn't news. Man-bites-dog is news. Couple that with a global telecommunications network that is largely comprised of American-based mega-conglomerates (see previous statement about locus of familiarity) and you've got your answer. that's why the attack in Boston gets more press than one in Dublin. It's not really a sympathetic answer, but that's how it is.
The Dark Apostle wrote: Kronk how was I being trollish? I worded my sentence badly, but Manchu corrected me. Think of other countries, and how much they suffer, this morning in Pakistan, 12 people were killed in a very similar incident to that in Boston. In a year today, I won't be seeing a memorial to them will I?
Are you really of the opinion that the Pakistanis don't care enough about their own people to have memorial to them? If it is true they don't, that is sad, but is irrelevant to this topic.
I seriously doubt they care too much about the attack in Boston though, and those in the US probably do. Hence THIS topic. Perhaps you should also post on a Pakistani forum and point out they are ignoring violence in some country other than theirs...
d-usa wrote: I don't think that Manchu's statement has anything to do with racism, he just rightly points out that during events like that we usually assume that somebody did this to us, instead of us doing it to ourselves.
Hence the reason why everybody jumps on the "this looks like AQ" bandwagon, or the reason why everybody reported "the police are talking to a Saudi national". There was an interestic statistic in the news today that the majority of bomb plots stopped since 9/11 have been orchestrated by domestic groups, with Jihadist groups coming in second. But who do we suspect first?
Let me give you my first hand experience in this:
In 2002 I was going through nursing school, and during my clinical rotation in the ICU I was taking care of a native american patient who would only speak his native language. He grew up speaking the language of his tribe but he could speak perfect English prior to his accident. When I asked about that the doctors told me that sometimes, during traumatic incidents such at that, a person can revert back to his first language.
About a month later my school, together with another university, participated in a mass-casualty drill & terrorist attack drill. The scenario was that evil terrorists caused an accident on the interstate, wrecked a tractor trailer filled with anhydrous ammonia that was contaminating the scene, and that there was a secondary explosive in the trunk of one of the vehicles next to our wrecked school bus, there were no terrorists on scene. All the agencies (Fire Departments, Highway Patrol, local sheriff) knew was that it was an accident that was suspicious with lots of victims.
I was a victim with a broken leg and arm hanging halfway out of the school bus and also had a camera with me to take pictures for the student paper. When the firefighters got to me I spoke only German to them (remembering the native american guy) since that could very well be a real thing that I would be doing in a situation like that. Not knowing what I was saying the firefighter moved on to the next victim. Within a few minutes more firefighters came by, placed me on a backboard, strapped me down, and left me there. Over the radios I could hear that they said that they had the suspected terrorist and before I knew it the bomb disposal robot was going through my camera bag.
The agency failed their test because once they got to the foreign guy they thought that they had the non-existing terrorist and they quit securing the scene and they never did find the bomb in the car.
So my personal experience is that the "foreign bad guys did this until proven otherwise" mindset can exist.
Thats really quite interesting.
I know I heard that the saudi national was running from the scene and then caught by a citizen before getting handed over to police.
Let me say that if I was a saudi national and a bomb went off near me, I'd run. Because I'm be pretty sure that if I stuck around I'd get the gak kicked out of me for looking like a terrorist.
What stopped me from jumping on the "it's dem damned ferenurs" bandwagon is the fact that nobody has taken credit for this. Normally when Islamist terrorists do something along these lines, they shout it far and wide. This would be a huge badge of honor for them yet there is nothing. In fact, none of the "usual suspects" or even groups on the periphery have stepped up, flag in hand. That makes me think it is home brewed and/or a partisan of some sort who holds an ideology but doesn't actually take orders from a larger group. Examples would include McVey and Nidal Hasan.
Breotan wrote: What stopped me from jumping on the "it's dem damned ferenurs" bandwagon is the fact that nobody has taken credit for this. Normally when Islamist terrorists do something along these lines, they shout it far and wide. This would be a huge badge of pride for them yet there is nothing. In fact, none of the "usual suspects" or groups on the periphery have stepped up, flag in hand. That makes me think it is home brewed and/or a partisan of some sort who holds an ideology but doesn't actually take orders from a larger group. Examples would include McVey and Nidal Hasan.
On the other hand, it's likely not a 'good idea' for an outside terror group to claim responsibility until they've at least gone and dug themselves into a very deep hole hidden away in some buttcrack corner of the world...
I mean, if it was you, would you seriously consider telling the US, the country that spent 10 years blowing up parts of multiple countries to capture/kill the dude who toppled the WTC, "I did it - mwah hahahaha!" BEFORE you'd squireled yourself away into some deep dark abyss?!
Days to weeks or more can typically go by without a claim of responsiblity being made, and after learning their lesson about how far the US or other western states will go to track down and apprehend the guilty parties, we might not even get an 'official' claim.
The US does have an epic history of nabing the cowards who perpetrate such terrible acts on their soil afterall.
Breotan wrote: What stopped me from jumping on the "it's dem damned ferenurs" bandwagon is the fact that nobody has taken credit for this. Normally when Islamist terrorists do something along these lines, they shout it far and wide. This would be a huge badge of pride for them yet there is nothing. In fact, none of the "usual suspects" or groups on the periphery have stepped up, flag in hand. That makes me think it is home brewed and/or a partisan of some sort who holds an ideology but doesn't actually take orders from a larger group. Examples would include McVey and Nidal Hasan.
On the other hand, it's likely not a 'good idea' for an outside terror group to claim responsibility until they've at least gone and dug themselves into a very deep hole hidden away in some buttcrack corner of the world...
I mean, if it was you, would you seriously consider telling the US, the country that spent 10 years blowing up parts of multiple countries to capture/kill the dude who toppled the WTC, "I did it - mwah hahahaha!" BEFORE you'd squireled yourself away into some deep dark abyss?!
Days to weeks or more can typically go by without a claim of responsiblity being made, and after learning their lesson about how far the US or other western states will go to track down and apprehend the guilty parties, we might not even get an 'official' claim.
The US does have an epic history of nabing the cowards who perpetrate such terrible acts on their soil afterall.
If somebody foreign was involved in this, then it was very well planned and a long time coming. If they haven't dug themselves a hiding hole during all this planing and before they carried it out then they would be pretty dumb.
d-usa wrote: I don't think that Manchu's statement has anything to do with racism, he just rightly points out that during events like that we usually assume that somebody did this to us, instead of us doing it to ourselves.
Hence the reason why everybody jumps on the "this looks like AQ" bandwagon, or the reason why everybody reported "the police are talking to a Saudi national". There was an interestic statistic in the news today that the majority of bomb plots stopped since 9/11 have been orchestrated by domestic groups, with Jihadist groups coming in second. But who do we suspect first?
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Name five large terrorist attacks on the US or its citizens - I'm willing to bet that Sept 11th and its horrors are pretty close to, if not, the top. That was the worst nightmare for many people, so rightly or wrongly, its a natural reaction to ask if this is happening again.
In a lot of cases in both Iraq and Afghanistan the use of multiple simultaneous explosions was a hallmark of AQ, especially in market places and other soft civilian targets (Madrid, 7/7 bombings etc.). So going by a well known MO isn't pointing the fingers at "an other" or racism, its what the facts supported at that time.
Now that being said (and throughout I have not pointed the blame at any one source, merely highlighted possible groups) AQ and its affiliate groups are often very quick to claim responsibility. The fact that this has not been done some 24+ hours later, that there does not appear to have been a suicide bomber, and the timing of the attack on Patriot's Day could reasonably show that it is not an attack by AQ and its affiliates.
Experiment 626 wrote: On the other hand, it's likely not a 'good idea' for an outside terror group to claim responsibility until they've at least gone and dug themselves into a very deep hole hidden away in some buttcrack corner of the world...
I mean, if it was you, would you seriously consider telling the US, the country that spent 10 years blowing up parts of multiple countries to capture/kill the dude who toppled the WTC, "I did it - mwah hahahaha!" BEFORE you'd squireled yourself away into some deep dark abyss?!
And as Seal Team Six showed, it doesn't matter where you are, or how deep you think is safe - you will be found
Actually, it can take up to 72 hours for groups to claim responsibility, if they ever do.
If this was the first of multiple planned attacks a group (foreign or domestic) could be waiting for the other attack(s) before taking responsibility (if they ever do).
kronk wrote: I don't know if this is foreign or domestic, so I'm not speculating on either. IF they used cell phones to detonate the bombs... well, I don't know how difficult that technology is to pull off. TV and movies =/= real life.
Maybe 5 guys in the US could do that by pooling resources, or maybe it takes REAL money, perhaps from oversees.
I don't know, either way. My knee-jerk reaction from last night's report that a Saudi man was being interviewed and people piling on Facebook that it was a foreigner was to think of Richard Jewell and people jumping to conclusions. This isn't our first rodeo. Let's see how things develop before pointing blame and attacking someone at Kroger's because they "look foreign" (re: people post 911 attacking foreigners).
I did it out of curiosity with an old phone of mine. Took about 10-20 minutes once I had everything in one place, and a little over an hour to find the stuff. Though my dad does have a set of those weird screwdrivers they use for electronics so that made it easier. You wouldn't want to hook it up until your on site though, as the hammer can move if jostled enough.
Of course, since who ever pulled this off seemingly did so without setting any indications/warnings of a specific threat, I have no faith that Sec Napolitano is correct. I hope she is.
Whoever behinds this terrorism wants Third world war!
Kim Jong Un said nothing about it. the N. Korea might be well benind the attacks. If this is true, I don't think he was using Korean spy, he's using Russian gangs to do this.
Well, I wouldn't put acts of terror beyond them. They just as crazy as most Terror organizations. Its just they'd probably have managed something bigger.
I think the picture of the kids from Iraq, beside the picture of the child that died in the bombing holding up the peace message should be shown to every adult that holds a position of power whatsoever. If that doesn't move people, then I fear they are beyond help.
yet they deny any responsibilities to the incident.
They might do it, or another organizations incorporated into the Al Quaeda itself.
So is terrorism an act against 'Imperialsm' or 'Colonialism' done by many western powers?
Terrorism is any act designed to spread terror. Normaly by a small group against a nation. Nation against nation is normaly catagorised as an act of war rather than terror.
It is most certainly "not an act against 'Imperialsm' or 'Colonialism'". See Sri Lanka Buddhist extremists, The East Turkestan independence movement and many others. Terrorism exists all over the world.
We just have to hope they find out who did this and that they can be brought to justice.
Steve steveson wrote: It would make that statement hilarious if it was a US right wing extremist group.
Hilarious isn't the word I would use to describe that, especially with three people dead and upwards of 170 injured. There may be a bitter irony in two opposing hateful groups with differing ideologies sharing an opinion on the events, but to say that its hilarious is just crass.
The symbolism and what little we know about the devices show them to be most likely domestic. A pressure cooker was used as the bomb casing, based on the smell described by the witnesses and the large amount of white smoke the explosive was most likely black powder with potassium or sodium chlorate as potential alternatives (both tend to contain a certain amount of sulfur).
The simplest version of this would be a few cans of ffg places in a pressure cooker (trying for better compression with the black powder) that was then filled with ball bearings and some type of remote detonator (cell maybe?) or a timer.
The reason that there are so many reported flash burns is that the pressure cooker made a poor casing and failed too quickly, flinging about 1/3 to 1/2 of the explosive into the air before it could fully ignite. This actually reduced the overall effectiveness of the bombs.
The types of devices, the spacing and timing are very similar to what we have seen in Afghanistan and places where AQ and their ilk are active. Add in that Inspire published a 'how to' for these types of devices and I would guess an AQ type, or influenced by AQ.
Add in the target selection is much more in line with AQ types vice typical anti government types. (Again, even Inspire urges targeting sporting events and the like).
The types of devices, the spacing and timing are very similar to what we have seen in Afghanistan and places where AQ and their ilk are active. Add in that Inspire published a 'how to' for these types of devices and I would guess an AQ type, or influenced by AQ.
Add in the target selection is much more in line with AQ types vice typical anti government types. (Again, even Inspire urges targeting sporting events and the like).
Bottom line is, we don't know yet.
There's also a report that a known AQ '13 magazine had instructions to building such pressure cooker bombs...
The types of devices, the spacing and timing are very similar to what we have seen in Afghanistan and places where AQ and their ilk are active. Add in that Inspire published a 'how to' for these types of devices and I would guess an AQ type, or influenced by AQ.
Add in the target selection is much more in line with AQ types vice typical anti government types. (Again, even Inspire urges targeting sporting events and the like).
Bottom line is, we don't know yet.
There's also a report that a known AQ '13 magazine had instructions to building such pressure cooker bombs...
That is what Inspire is. And it isn't a report, I've seen the magazine (over a year ago).
The stupidity burns. So because what appears to be a lone individual. based on the evidence to date, detonates a low quality improvised explosive device we should start handing over an unrelated item? Genius..... maybe he'll ask for a pressure cooker registry next. And the "Lets hope it was a white guy", what would the reaction if we substitute a minority for white guy in the report?
The stupidity burns. So because what appears to be a lone individual. based on the evidence to date, detonates a low quality improvised explosive device we should start handing over an unrelated item? Genius..... maybe he'll ask for a pressure cooker registry next. And the "Lets hope it was a white guy", what would the reaction if we substitute a minority for white guy in the report?
1. Jay Mohr is likely trying to gain some press attention so that he can be hyped up for a D-list reality TV show. He should be ignored forever, just like he has been so far.
2. Given the knee-jerk fear reactions to "the other" that has been displayed in the recent past...
azazel the cat wrote: 1. Jay Mohr is likely trying to gain some press attention so that he can be hyped up for a D-list reality TV show. He should be ignored forever, just like he has been so far.
2. Given the knee-jerk fear reactions to "the other" that has been displayed in the recent past...
In agreement over 1. because I'd never heard of him until this thread. As regards 2. should we be pointing the finger at anyone until the facts are established, much less hoping that its a certain group? Like I said substitute your minority of choice for White Man in that article and guess what the reaction will be.
(CNN) -- Investigators believe they have identified a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings, a source who has been briefed on the investigation told CNN's John King exclusively.
The breakthrough came from analysis of video from a department store near the site of the second explosion. Video from a Boston television station also contributed to the progress, said the source, who declined to be more specific but called it a significant development.
Earlier, a federal law enforcement source with firsthand knowledge of the investigation told CNN that a lid to a pressure cooker thought to have been used in the bombings had been found on a roof of a building near the scene.
While such clues may move the investigation forward, they did not reveal whether the attack was an act of domestic or foreign terrorism.
Tracking suspects in the Boston bombings
New clues in Boston Marathon attack
"If your experience and your expertise is Middle East terrorism, it has the hallmarks of al Qaeda or a Middle East group," former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes said. "If your experience is domestic groups and bombings that have occurred here, it has the hallmarks of a domestic terrorist like Eric Rudolph in the 1996 Atlanta Summer Olympics bombings."
Bolded point is extremely relevant to all the speculation flying around.
DEVELOPING: Fox News has been told that the circuit board suspected of being used to detonate the Boston Marathon bomb has been recovered, and that FBI investigators continue to scan and analyze the cell phone tower records to identify positive hits for signs of calls that may have triggered both explosions remotely.
So sounds like the police/FBI are looking for evidence of a command detonated cell phone type IED
We bombed Al Qaeda because they claimed responsibility and we knew where they were. We didn't bomb anyone when McVeigh pulled his shenanigans because... he actually was a lone wolf. If he had ran off to some remote location and was surrounded by crazed supporters that wouldn't give him up I bet things would have gone differently.
We bombed Al Qaeda because they claimed responsibility and we knew where they were. We didn't bomb anyone when McVeigh pulled his shenanigans because... he actually was a lone wolf. If he had ran off to some remote location and was surrounded by crazed supporters that wouldn't give him up I bet things would have gone differently.
(CNN) -- Authorities arrested a suspect Wednesday in the fatal bombings at the Boston Marathon, a federal law enforcement source told CNN's Fran Townsend.
Details about the suspect's identity and motive were not immediately available. News of the arrest was first reported by CNN.
Investigators identified the suspect based on two videos taken before Monday's attack, the federal law enforcement source told Townsend.
One of the videos was surveillance footage taken at the nearby Lord & Taylor department store, the other was shot by a Boston television station, a source who has has been briefed on the investigation exclusively told CNN's John King.
The development came after a chaotic day in which investigators revealed more details about the makeup of the bombs and apparently unrelated scares over letters containing ricin gripped the nation's capital.
The bombs exploded 12 seconds apart near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, killing three people and wounding about 180 others.
One of the bombs was housed in a pressure cooker hidden inside a backpack, the FBI said in a joint intelligence bulletin. The device also had fragments that may have included nails, BBs and ball bearings, the agency said.
The second bomb was also housed in a metal container, but it was not clear whether it too was in a pressure cooker, the FBI said.
The U.S. government has warned federal agencies in the past that terrorists could turn pressure cookers into bombs by packing them with explosives and shrapnel and detonating them with blasting caps.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maelstrom808 wrote: Now they are saying no one has been arrested. #businessasusual
(CNN) -- [Breaking news update at 2:36 p.m. Wednesday]
There is conflicting information as to whether someone has been arrested in connection with the Boston Marathon bombings. A federal law enforcement source told CNN's Fran Townsend that someone was arrested. But later, two senior administration officials and another federal official told Townsend that there had been a misunderstanding among officials and that no one has been arrested.
Fox news is hardly at the forefront of news agencies who put breaking news up before confirming the facts in an effort to be the first ones with the scoop. They are all equally guilty as far as that goes. There is no news outlet that waits to confirm breaking news.
There are legitimate criticisms that can be leveled against Fox news, but this is definitely not one of them.
Soladrin wrote: You are aware European news doesn't really mean anything. Europe isn't a country...
Nothing in my previous post implied that Europe was a country. European news outlets = news outlets from Europe. Something can originate from a place without that place being a country.
"If your experience and your expertise is Middle East terrorism, it has the hallmarks of al Qaeda or a Middle East group," former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes said. "If your experience is domestic groups and bombings that have occurred here, it has the hallmarks of a domestic terrorist like Eric Rudolph in the 1996 Atlanta Summer Olympics bombings."
Bolded point is extremely relevant to all the speculation flying around.
Point.
I'll add though that my area of expertise is actually bombings in general rather than 'US' or 'Afghan' specific. Trained or experienced bombers *tend* to use more potent explosives than simple black powder, however, if available. This *suggests* that this is an amateur bomb maker who bought an easily available over the counter explosive rather than mixing their own more potent brew. The symbolism of bombing an event to commemorate the battles of Lexington and Concord has a highly 'American' symbolism. ('a shot heard 'round the world')
Though it is true that foreign terrorists would likely try for a sporting event, the Boston Marathon is less than ideal. You want something where a large number of people are crowded into a more or less confined area, like a football or baseball game.
The real issue with a 'foreign triggerman' is that they would have detonated at the moment the first runner crossed the line (the moment of absolute maximum world wide media coverage for maximum 'terror' impact) rather than wait and hope for a sufficiently large group of stragglers to give it a big enough body count.
While I can't deny a similarity to the Afghan IEDs I'll also point out that it's also similar to European (specifically a certain style of Irish) devices as well. Factor in we live in the age of the internet with bomb plans and home brew explosive mixes traded like beer recipes and there is significant uncertainty.
Throw in the fact that today Harry Reid and Barak Obama both received Ricin in the mail...
Where are you seeing the two "right hands"? I see one right hand on the back pack and what looks like his left hand in the back pack. What am I missing?
Where are you seeing the two "right hands"? I see one right hand on the back pack and what looks like his left hand in the back pack. What am I missing?
Evidently the Boston courthouse is being evacuated due to suspected Bomb Threat.
What.The.feth.Is.Going.On!
MGS... stay home!
Edit: just so that you know... with the advent of social media... these things are flying around now. No one knows what the feth is going on...
There may be speculation that the evacuation is simply to get the media way from the courtroom because of the erroneous arrest report earlier.
I like how the caption "backpack seems to be missing" is tagged to a white cap with sunglasses above the visor where the other two pictures show a white cap without sunglasses. Also, this guy has black pants and no hoodie where the one shown earlier in the thread has a hoodie and tan pants.
In the article in the first link it looks like a completely different person between the first and second set of pictures (darker hair, different jacket and different pants) and the photo with the caption "Backpack seems to be missing" shows a man in a sea of people, if it was slung low or held in his hands (common at packed events for room) then it wouldn't be visible in those pics.
I want to see the perpetrator caught, but I'd rather not have someone falsely accused on the internet on little evidence.
Apparently there's going to be a news conference at 5pm Boston local time.
Hopefully the media circus gets a little cleared up and we'll get some more actual facts from those actually 'in the know'.
And what's with the idiotic plot to send poisoned letters to the Pres?! Looks like a Darwin Award for world's worst assassin.
Experiment 626 wrote: Apparently there's going to be a news conference at 5pm Boston local time.
Hopefully the media circus gets a little cleared up and we'll get some more actual facts from those actually 'in the know'.
And what's with the idiotic plot to send poisoned letters to the Pres?! Looks like a Darwin Award for world's worst assassin.
In the article in the first link it looks like a completely different person between the first and second set of pictures (darker hair, different jacket and different pants) and the photo with the caption "Backpack seems to be missing" shows a man in a sea of people, if it was slung low or held in his hands (common at packed events for room) then it wouldn't be visible in those pics.
I want to see the perpetrator caught, but I'd rather not have someone falsely accused on the internet on little evidence.
I know I was going to point out how idiotic the comment section was.
Breotan wrote: I like how the caption "backpack seems to be missing" is tagged to a white cap with sunglasses above the visor where the other two pictures show a white cap without sunglasses. Also, this guy has black pants and no hoodie where the one shown earlier in the thread has a hoodie and tan pants.
Much adieu about nothing.
Concur with you and Dread, this line of theory's BS.
whembly wrote: Damn... my boston twittah feed just went crazy...
Evidently the Boston courthouse is being evacuated due to suspected Bomb Threat.
I expect that these are due to crank calls by someone who thinks it's all just a big joke. I hope there are arrests here, too. People are frequently stupid enough to do this from their own phones, after all.
Breotan wrote: Allen West clearly doesn't understand the definition of massacre. Also, handcuffs and Miranda rights hardly qualify as avenging anything
wut? "massacre"?
Google-fu'ed:
mas·sa·cre
/ˈmasikər/
Noun An indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of people: "the attack was described as a cold-blooded massacre".
Verb Deliberately and violently kill (a large number of people).
whembly wrote: Ahem... Allen West is boss... that's all.
People like to rattle their sabers and act like they want to march to war after these kind of things.
Hopefully we will remember this attack the same way we remember the Oklahoma City bombing: People talk about the bombing, but it is remembered much more for the response of the people here than the act of a madman. We are having the memorial Marathon this weekend where the lives of those lost are celebrated and remembered. The Memorial itself is a testament on how to remember a tragedy in a somber and reverent way. Seriously, if anybody is ever in the Oklahoma City area, hit me up and I will personally take you on a tour. It's an amazing place filled with hope, not what you would expect from the site of an attack.
There is a reason this has become the symbol of the Oklahoma City attack:
whembly wrote: Ahem... Allen West is boss... that's all.
Dude, whatever he's smoking he needs to share with the rest of the class. While a lot of people were hurt, and sadly a few people died, it was barely a blip on the radar. Now, if they had whipped up some RDX, spiked it with ball bearings and white phosphorus, and left those bags in, say, a crowded hospital waiting area or ER, then we're talking.
whembly wrote: Ahem... Allen West is boss... that's all.
Dude, whatever he's smoking he needs to share with the rest of the class. While a lot of people were hurt, and sadly a few people died, it was barely a blip on the radar. Now, if they had whipped up some RDX, spiked it with ball bearings and white phosphorus, and left those bags in, say, a crowded hospital waiting area or ER, then we're talking.
Texas had a bigger, deadlier (it is Texas), explosion by accident than these 'terrorists' (amateurs) could muster with planning.
While for the people involved, sure, the Boston Marathon bombing was a horrific event for the people involved, compared to other terrorist bombings or even an industrial accident where there's a large explosion, it hardly rates attention. The current US hysterical over reaction is more damaging in the long run than the bombing itself.
So the simple solution is to round them up like any other common murderer, incarcerate them or give them the chair, and then get on with your lives.
Evidently the less moderate new sources are reporting that the Saudi student has been deported for security reasons. The wingnuts are going off that Saudi Arabia is being protected (again).
Frazzled wrote: Evidently the less moderate new sources are reporting that the Saudi student has been deported for security reasons. The wingnuts are going off that Saudi Arabia is being protected (again).
Frazzled wrote: Evidently the less moderate new sources are reporting that the Saudi student has been deported for security reasons. The wingnuts are going off that Saudi Arabia is being protected (again).
Greaaattt...
I must've missed something.
What Saudi student?
The one that was variously described as a suspect, student of interest, witness, etc. at the hospital.
One of the people questioned following the blast was a Saudi national. The FBI quickly determined he had nothing to do with it, but the media wasn't so quick to dismiss the 'guilt' of a foreign national, so the Government is hustling him out of the country to avoid any potential 'incidents'.
Frazzled wrote: The one that was variously described as a suspect, student of interest, witness, etc. at the hospital.
Oh. Hadn't heard about that. I just keep seeing the before/ after pictures of two gentlemen of apparent Middle Eastern descent with and without large bags being circulated.
I think it was the Saudi national who's apartment was searched in the past few days. It could have been any number of things, but maybe they found something there that was a red flag?
Dreadclaw69 wrote: I think it was the Saudi national who's apartment was searched in the past few days. It could have been any number of things, but maybe they found something there that was a red flag?
I don't think they found anything. He was fleeing the scene with 2 backpacks, according to reports/speculation/rumors. So he was detained and questioned and cleared of any wrong-doing.
Edit: I'm looking for an article concerning him being deported and why, but none of the media outlets have it right now. Just the crazy conspiracy websites and/or extremist blogs. So, I'm not linking any of them. If something pops up on CNN, ABC, or the like, I'll read that.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: I think it was the Saudi national who's apartment was searched in the past few days. It could have been any number of things, but maybe they found something there that was a red flag?
I don't think they found anything. He was fleeing the scene with 2 backpacks, according to reports/speculation/rumors. So he was detained and questioned and cleared of any wrong-doing.
Edit: I'm looking for an article concerning him being deported and why, but none of the media outlets have it right now. Just the crazy conspiracy websites and/or extremist blogs. So, I'm not linking any of them. If something pops up on CNN, ABC, or the like, I'll read that.
Until then, it's a rumor.
Exactly.
They need to move on this fast before this stuff gets out of hand.
kronk wrote: Edit: I'm looking for an article concerning him being deported and why, but none of the media outlets have it right now. Just the crazy conspiracy websites and/or extremist blogs. So, I'm not linking any of them. If something pops up on CNN, ABC, or the like, I'll read that.
I think that we can do without giving the crazies more web traffic so good call
kronk wrote: Edit: I'm looking for an article concerning him being deported and why, but none of the media outlets have it right now. Just the crazy conspiracy websites and/or extremist blogs. So, I'm not linking any of them. If something pops up on CNN, ABC, or the like, I'll read that.
I think that we can do without giving the crazies more web traffic so good call
I took an exploratory look on those sites and it's been reported that the Saudi is being deported because of his connection to terrorist activities (not related to the Boston Attack) and that he's connected to a powerful/infuential Saudi familiy and the ICE is deporting him now to mitigate further embarassment to the powerful Saudi family.
ugh... need to scrub my eyeballs... not doing that again. o.O
whembly wrote: I took an exploratory look on those sites and it's been reported that the Saudi is being deported because of his connection to terrorist activities (not related to the Boston Attack) and that he's connected to a powerful/infuential Saudi familiy and the ICE is deporting him now to mitigate further embarassment to the powerful Saudi family.
ugh... need to scrub my eyeballs... not doing that again. o.O
I hope none of your brain cells died from expose to those sites
The types of devices, the spacing and timing are very similar to what we have seen in Afghanistan and places where AQ and their ilk are active. Add in that Inspire published a 'how to' for these types of devices and I would guess an AQ type, or influenced by AQ.
Add in the target selection is much more in line with AQ types vice typical anti government types. (Again, even Inspire urges targeting sporting events and the like).
Bottom line is, we don't know yet.
There's also a report that a known AQ '13 magazine had instructions to building such pressure cooker bombs...
So this could be the reasons the cops suspect anyone in Boston speaking 'foreign accents'?
there also a talk about 'Nigerians' who were caught and questioned by cops.
AQ is said to have African connections in many countries with significant muslim populations. Also Nigerian muslims were said to have a very low anger treshold. any remarks to the God by any media is treated as 'blasphemy'. a serious crime they believe it is punishable by death, a very horrible and torturing death!
The types of devices, the spacing and timing are very similar to what we have seen in Afghanistan and places where AQ and their ilk are active. Add in that Inspire published a 'how to' for these types of devices and I would guess an AQ type, or influenced by AQ.
Add in the target selection is much more in line with AQ types vice typical anti government types. (Again, even Inspire urges targeting sporting events and the like).
Bottom line is, we don't know yet.
There's also a report that a known AQ '13 magazine had instructions to building such pressure cooker bombs...
So this could be the reasons the cops suspect anyone in Boston speaking 'foreign accents'?
there also a talk about 'Nigerians' who were caught and questioned by cops.
AQ is said to have African connections in many countries with significant muslim populations. Also Nigerian muslims were said to have a very low anger treshold. any remarks to the God by any media is treated as 'blasphemy'. a serious crime they believe it is punishable by death, a very horrible and torturing death!
kronk wrote: Edit: I'm looking for an article concerning him being deported and why, but none of the media outlets have it right now. Just the crazy conspiracy websites and/or extremist blogs. So, I'm not linking any of them. If something pops up on CNN, ABC, or the like, I'll read that.
I think that we can do without giving the crazies more web traffic so good call
I took an exploratory look on those sites and it's been reported that the Saudi is being deported because of his connection to terrorist activities (not related to the Boston Attack) and that he's connected to a powerful/infuential Saudi familiy and the ICE is deporting him now to mitigate further embarassment to the powerful Saudi family.
ugh... need to scrub my eyeballs... not doing that again. o.O
Yea I wouldn't do that again if I were you. I like to occasionally drop in on left wing stuff and right wing stuff to point and laugh, but its not for the timid.
The types of devices, the spacing and timing are very similar to what we have seen in Afghanistan and places where AQ and their ilk are active. Add in that Inspire published a 'how to' for these types of devices and I would guess an AQ type, or influenced by AQ.
Add in the target selection is much more in line with AQ types vice typical anti government types. (Again, even Inspire urges targeting sporting events and the like).
Bottom line is, we don't know yet.
There's also a report that a known AQ '13 magazine had instructions to building such pressure cooker bombs...
So this could be the reasons the cops suspect anyone in Boston speaking 'foreign accents'?
there also a talk about 'Nigerians' who were caught and questioned by cops.
AQ is said to have African connections in many countries with significant muslim populations. Also Nigerian muslims were said to have a very low anger treshold. any remarks to the God by any media is treated as 'blasphemy'. a serious crime they believe it is punishable by death, a very horrible and torturing death!
There were a bunch of them, gathered at the front, wearing ribbons that said "First Place", they must be terrorists!
Frazzled wrote: Yea I wouldn't do that again if I were you. I like to occasionally drop in on left wing stuff and right wing stuff to point and laugh, but its not for the timid.
I like to do the same, that way I know I'm keeping myself relatively centered by comparison
ugh... need to scrub my eyeballs... not doing that again. o.O
Exactly. Still nothing...
Welp, it's on FOX, but not seeing anything on CNN or other news networks. Gotta run to lunch, though. Just "sources say". Hopefully his sources aren't those crappy blogs...
I would not be surprised if there are going to be people who will be followed by this event even if they had nothing to do with it...
[ur=http://gawker.com/5994955/the-posts-person-of-interest-is-a-local-high+school-track-runnerl]The Post’s ‘Person of Interest’ Is a Local High-School Track Runner[/url]
"BAG MEN," the New York Post's front cover brays this morning, underneath a photo of two Boston Marathon spectators. "Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon." After its embarrassing performance on Monday in the aftermath of the marathon bombings, has the Post redeemed itself by scooping the first, much-discussed photos of the suspects?
No. As CBS' John Miller reports, neither man is likely to be a suspect in the bombings, and these are not the pictures of the possible suspects that authorities plan on releasing. But I didn't need John Miller to tell me that— the "persons of interest" in the photos are two local kids who had already been checked out by Reddit and other message-board "crowd-sleuthing" efforts yesterday, and found to be a incredibly unlikely suspects.
As we documented yesterday, the a large and active community of amateur detectives, dedicated to the close examination of photographs of the scene, emerged on the link-sharing site Reddit (and elsewhere) in the aftermath of Monday's bombing. Their efforts were going about as well as you might imagine, which is to say, not very well—lots of MS-Paint circles and lots of near-baseless speculation.
But thanks to their ability to do really basic internet detective work, they managed to figure out pretty quickly that the guy in the blue track jacket almost certainly isn't a bomber. All they had to do was find his Facebook. I was able to do it pretty quickly: He's a Moroccan-American kid, a local high-school soccer player and track runner (possibly he and his friend's track outfits could have been a tipoff that they were actually interested in the race?) who works at Subway and likes How High and The Hunger Games. On Monday, he took a couple of geekily enthusiastic photos of himself at the marathon. These were the latest posts on his News Feed (since deleted; he's also changed his name on Facebook):
Now: Were cops circulating his photo, as the Post reports? Probably, yes, they were circulating them internally, sanely, and responsibly, along with many other photos, the way police do (or should). Are or were he and his friend "persons of interest"? Sure! Maybe.
It took Redditors a few hours to find that Facebook page; it took me about ten minutes in the wake of their work. If you have even a little faith in the FBI, it's difficult to imagine that its investigators didn't figure out who this kid is, and how unlikely he is as a suspect, yesterday—especially after he went to authorities to clear his name.
Which means there are two possibilities: one, the Post newsroom couldn't even be bothered to do the bare minimum of follow-up reporting—that after reporters had spoken to their sources, who gave them at best outdated information, they didn't (or didn't know how to) spend the ten minutes it would have taken to learn that the person in the photos had been identified already—by message board posters!—as a person who did not plant a bomb at the Boston Marathon.
Or, two, that the the Post did the followup reporting—that its reporters found out that the kid had been identified online, that he'd contacted authorities, that he's just some poor teenager who posts "SWAG" image macros on his Facebook page—but is institutionally so committed to identifying an Arab, any Arab, as a terrorist, that it still splashed his photo on the front page and insinuated his suspect-hood.
You don't even need to leave the Post's website to understand why that's so damaging. For most of the morning, the article below their exposé on the scary Arab "persons of interest" was "Bx. idiots beat up ‘Arab' in revenge," a story about a Bangladeshi-American man who'd been assaulted in New York City the day of the marathon:
[O]ne of the men snarled, "Yeah, he's a f—king Arab," and the gang pounced, punching him on the head and body, dislocating his left shoulder and leaving him semiconscious. [...]
The victim said he went home and turned on the TV, and only then learned about the bombing and put two and two together.
"I saw the news, and then it hits me: That's why I got jumped," he said.
I hope the journalists and editors involved lose their jobs. And I honestly don't often hope for things like that, but man, feth those guys. That is fething criminally irresponsible.
Pressure Cooker......wow.....last time I and a bunch of others that have came across that type of IED were in Iraq and Afghanistan........
What bothered me the most though....they moved a ECM (think they're using a Duke II or a Warlock) into the area after the explosions. Complacent in effect
d-usa wrote: I would not be surprised if there are going to be people who will be followed by this event even if they had nothing to do with it...
[ur=http://gawker.com/5994955/the-posts-person-of-interest-is-a-local-high+school-track-runnerl]The Post’s ‘Person of Interest’ Is a Local High-School Track Runner[/url]
"BAG MEN," the New York Post's front cover brays this morning, underneath a photo of two Boston Marathon spectators. "Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon." After its embarrassing performance on Monday in the aftermath of the marathon bombings, has the Post redeemed itself by scooping the first, much-discussed photos of the suspects?
No. As CBS' John Miller reports, neither man is likely to be a suspect in the bombings, and these are not the pictures of the possible suspects that authorities plan on releasing. But I didn't need John Miller to tell me that— the "persons of interest" in the photos are two local kids who had already been checked out by Reddit and other message-board "crowd-sleuthing" efforts yesterday, and found to be a incredibly unlikely suspects.
As we documented yesterday, the a large and active community of amateur detectives, dedicated to the close examination of photographs of the scene, emerged on the link-sharing site Reddit (and elsewhere) in the aftermath of Monday's bombing. Their efforts were going about as well as you might imagine, which is to say, not very well—lots of MS-Paint circles and lots of near-baseless speculation.
But thanks to their ability to do really basic internet detective work, they managed to figure out pretty quickly that the guy in the blue track jacket almost certainly isn't a bomber. All they had to do was find his Facebook. I was able to do it pretty quickly: He's a Moroccan-American kid, a local high-school soccer player and track runner (possibly he and his friend's track outfits could have been a tipoff that they were actually interested in the race?) who works at Subway and likes How High and The Hunger Games. On Monday, he took a couple of geekily enthusiastic photos of himself at the marathon. These were the latest posts on his News Feed (since deleted; he's also changed his name on Facebook):
Now: Were cops circulating his photo, as the Post reports? Probably, yes, they were circulating them internally, sanely, and responsibly, along with many other photos, the way police do (or should). Are or were he and his friend "persons of interest"? Sure! Maybe.
It took Redditors a few hours to find that Facebook page; it took me about ten minutes in the wake of their work. If you have even a little faith in the FBI, it's difficult to imagine that its investigators didn't figure out who this kid is, and how unlikely he is as a suspect, yesterday—especially after he went to authorities to clear his name.
Which means there are two possibilities: one, the Post newsroom couldn't even be bothered to do the bare minimum of follow-up reporting—that after reporters had spoken to their sources, who gave them at best outdated information, they didn't (or didn't know how to) spend the ten minutes it would have taken to learn that the person in the photos had been identified already—by message board posters!—as a person who did not plant a bomb at the Boston Marathon.
Or, two, that the the Post did the followup reporting—that its reporters found out that the kid had been identified online, that he'd contacted authorities, that he's just some poor teenager who posts "SWAG" image macros on his Facebook page—but is institutionally so committed to identifying an Arab, any Arab, as a terrorist, that it still splashed his photo on the front page and insinuated his suspect-hood.
You don't even need to leave the Post's website to understand why that's so damaging. For most of the morning, the article below their exposé on the scary Arab "persons of interest" was "Bx. idiots beat up ‘Arab' in revenge," a story about a Bangladeshi-American man who'd been assaulted in New York City the day of the marathon:
[O]ne of the men snarled, "Yeah, he's a f—king Arab," and the gang pounced, punching him on the head and body, dislocating his left shoulder and leaving him semiconscious. [...]
The victim said he went home and turned on the TV, and only then learned about the bombing and put two and two together.
"I saw the news, and then it hits me: That's why I got jumped," he said.
Innocent until proven guilty. Has everyone forgotten about this?
Jihadin wrote: Pressure Cooker......wow.....last time I and a bunch of others that have came across that type of IED were in Iraq and Afghanistan........
What bothered me the most though....they moved a ECM (think they're using a Duke II or a Warlock) into the area after the explosions. Complacent in effect
Jihadin wrote: Pressure Cooker......wow.....last time I and a bunch of others that have came across that type of IED were in Iraq and Afghanistan........
What bothered me the most though....they moved a ECM (think they're using a Duke II or a Warlock) into the area after the explosions. Complacent in effect
ECM?
English for non-military folks...
from my days of EVE, I believe it means Electronic Counter-Measure
Jihadin wrote: Pressure Cooker......wow.....last time I and a bunch of others that have came across that type of IED were in Iraq and Afghanistan........
What bothered me the most though....they moved a ECM (think they're using a Duke II or a Warlock) into the area after the explosions. Complacent in effect
Well, they had no reason to turn it on before hand. But with all of the media reports of UXO's it was a prudent move to have it in there. They had no clue if there was other bombs, and putting the counter measure up until they could determine so was a smart decision. Nothing complacent about it.
I mean, isn't the point to prevent any further detonation by cell phone if there are more bombs?
That's the idea. It's not 100% reliable though, and can really backfire if the devices have a deadman switch if they lose signal. They turn on the ECM and everything pops at once.
As far as 'pressure cooker' devices, again, they're not unique to the middle east. You'll find them any time there are a lot of IEDs in use.
How often are deadman switches used? Is it a major threat with things like this, can't be huge otherwise we probably wouldn't even use an ECM vehicle at all.
Grey Templar wrote: How often are deadman switches used? Is it a major threat with things like this, can't be huge otherwise we probably wouldn't even use an ECM vehicle at all.
Depends on how much time, effort, and skill your bomber has. These guys strike me as amateurs, so pretty unlikely. A skilled bomber would have detonated the bombs, and then drove a much larger device to the scene disguised as an ambulance or police car, gotten to a minimum safe distance and detonated, with a five min timer as a backup detonator, This causes maximum casualties, particularly among the first responders.
Grey Templar wrote: How often are deadman switches used? Is it a major threat with things like this, can't be huge otherwise we probably wouldn't even use an ECM vehicle at all.
Depends on how much time, effort, and skill your bomber has. These guys strike me as amateurs, so pretty unlikely. A skilled bomber would have detonated the bombs, and then drove a much larger device to the scene disguised as an ambulance or police car, gotten to a minimum safe distance and detonated, with a five min timer as a backup detonator, This causes maximum casualties, particularly among the first responders.
Or set the other to go off a minute or two after the first. It would have given more time for people to gather after the first.
They didn't pay to much attention to a near decade of IED use in Iraq.
d-usa wrote: Just moving the second device up the street to the medical tent would have been pretty bad.
Yes, that would probably have increased the number of dead by an exponential amount just from the impact on the first responders not getting there in time.
whembly wrote: is it possible that no one has claimed resposibility due to our drone policy/
Not likely. Most of these guys like to think they're really smart or are not afraid to die. Or both. Taking credit is a big thing for them, an ego kick and proof of their 'superiority'.
whembly wrote: is it possible that no one has claimed resposibility due to our drone policy/
Not likely. Most of these guys like to think they're really smart or are not afraid to die. Or both. Taking credit is a big thing for them, an ego kick and proof of their 'superiority'.
None of the major/inor terrorist grps are claiming it so far which I really hope they don't....thinking its a nutjob X 2 at least. They moved the ECM in after the explosion to prevent 2ndary by remote. Even though the IED's went off by pressure cookers can you imagine the backlash the LEO and others would get if they were remote detonated instead.
whembly wrote: is it possible that no one has claimed resposibility due to our drone policy/
Not likely. Most of these guys like to think they're really smart or are not afraid to die. Or both. Taking credit is a big thing for them, an ego kick and proof of their 'superiority'.
Jihadin wrote: None of the major/inor terrorist grps are claiming it so far which I really hope they don't....thinking its a nutjob X 2 at least. They moved the ECM in after the explosion to prevent 2ndary by remote. Even though the IED's went off by pressure cookers can you imagine the backlash the LEO and others would get if they were remote detonated instead.
My money is on a new domestic player. Radical right wing fringe group would seem to match up with the symbolism best.
Depends on the location. It can be a real enlightening experience or the funky feel of the shockwave going through you..........the other be getting gonged inside the vehicle
Jihadin wrote: Depends on the location. It can be a real enlightening experience or the funky feel of the shockwave going through you..........the other be getting gonged inside the vehicle
Spalling is not my friend, It hurts.
A lot.
Conversely, there is a sort of interesting, rhythmic feel to shock waves washing over you as you lay prone. As long as it doesn't land too close to the hole you're trying to make deeper.
d-usa wrote: Just moving the second device up the street to the medical tent would have been pretty bad.
Yes, that would probably have increased the number of dead by an exponential amount just from the impact on the first responders not getting there in time.
More importantly, it would have taken out the on site medics who are credited with saving a lot of lives. With those guys as casualties this would have ended much worse.
My money is on a new domestic player. Radical right wing fringe group would seem to match up with the symbolism best.
Is it your belief that the April 15th date is important? Do you think if the Marathon had been held on the 12th or the 17th for example it would not have been the target?
My money is on a new domestic player. Radical right wing fringe group would seem to match up with the symbolism best.
Is it your belief that the April 15th date is important? Do you think if the Marathon had been held on the 12th or the 17th for example it would not have been the target?
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Tax Day, Patriot's Day in Mass, Boston home of revolution and the Tea Party.
All adds up to a statement, if you were looking for patterns in the chaos.
So then you do NOT think the Boston Marathon was the target. Interesting. What do you think they would have hit on the 15th if the Marathon had been on the 12th or 16th or any date besides the 15th?
I don't agree with you at all by the way. I think the event was the target. If you are going to use a symbolic date you also choose a more symbolic target. US Anti-govt types in the past have hit gov't type targets. These guys instead chose a target the same way jihadist types do, a public event in a public place and civilians....
Used device out of a jihadist playbook and even featured in Inspire? check
Template for attack (multiple devices with some separation in time and distance) out of jihadist playbook we've seen overseas? check
Target selection out of jihadist playbook (hit sporting events and public gatherings)? check
Of course it could be anti-gov't types following jihadist playbook, we don't know. I do know the attack is of a type that anti-gov't types have never done so is way outside what you would expect from them.
We'll see.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seaward wrote: I'm having a great deal of fun watching the internet scream at itself over the ethnicity of those guys.
Ethnicity means nothing. John Walker Lind was a white kid. Plenty of other examples along that line.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Tax Day, Patriot's Day in Mass, Boston home of revolution and the Tea Party.
All adds up to a statement, if you were looking for patterns in the chaos.
So then you do NOT think the Boston Marathon was the target. Interesting. What do you think they would have hit on the 15th if the Marathon had been on the 12th or 16th or any date besides the 15th?
I don't agree with you at all by the way. I think the event was the target. If you are going to use a symbolic date you also choose a more symbolic target. US Anti-govt types in the past have hit gov't type targets. These guys instead chose a target the same way jihadist types do, a public event in a public place and civilians....
I didn't say the marathon wasn't the target, I'm saying the marathon IN Boston, on this day, was the target...
US police are hunting a suspect in Monday's deadly Boston Marathon bombing, after another suspect was killed in a car chase and shoot-out.
Police began the manhunt on Thursday after an officer was killed at a university campus.
Two suspects stole a car and threw bombs and traded gunfire with police chasing them. An officer was wounded.
Three people were killed and more than 170 wounded when two bombs exploded near the finish line of the marathon.
The authorities tracked the two suspects to Watertown, west of Boston, where one was killed and another escaped.
Police later confirmed that the two men they were chasing were suspects in Monday's marathon bombing.
The FBI has released several images of two men they were hunting in relation to the bombing.
One was wearing a white cap, the other had a black cap.
Police said "suspect number one" had been killed, and they were looking for "suspect number two", the "white-capped individual".
Col Timothy Alben: Suspect is "armed and dangerous"
The authorities in Massachusetts Bay have suspended the transport system and no vehicles are being allowed in or out of the Watertown area.
Officials have told people in the area to stay at home, and warned businesses not to open.
Armed police Swat teams are going from door-to-door in Watertown searching for the suspect.
Blast wounds
An earlier police statement said the two men were suspected of killing a police officer on campus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) late on Thursday.
They then stole a car at gunpoint and drove away with the car's owner still on board.
They released the driver unharmed.
After a car chase, witnesses in Watertown heard several explosions and a gun-battle lasting 10 minutes.
Video footage emerged showing a fully-clothed suspect lying on the floor, surrounded by police.
More video was shown by US media of a suspect being led into a police car after being stripped of his clothes.
But it is not clear who the men were - and what happened after their apparent arrest.
Dr Richard Wolfe, of the Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, said the suspect was brought in with multiple blast and gunshot wounds to his upper body.
Watertown resident describes explosions and gunfire
He was in cardiac arrest when he arrived at hospital and despite attempts to resuscitate him, he was pronounced dead at 01:35 (05:35 GMT), Dr Wolfe said. .
Police also confirmed that an officer had been critically wounded in the chase.
Boston police Commissioner Ed Davis said he believed the man being hunted in Watertown was a "terrorist".
"We believe this to be a man who came here to kill people," he said.
Three people were killed and more than 170 wounded when the two bombs exploded near the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
The blasts killed Martin Richard, aged eight, Krystle Campbell, 29, and Lu Lingzi, 23, a postgraduate student from China.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Tax Day, Patriot's Day in Mass, Boston home of revolution and the Tea Party.
All adds up to a statement, if you were looking for patterns in the chaos.
So then you do NOT think the Boston Marathon was the target. Interesting. What do you think they would have hit on the 15th if the Marathon had been on the 12th or 16th or any date besides the 15th?
I don't agree with you at all by the way. I think the event was the target. If you are going to use a symbolic date you also choose a more symbolic target. US Anti-govt types in the past have hit gov't type targets. These guys instead chose a target the same way jihadist types do, a public event in a public place and civilians....
I didn't say the marathon wasn't the target, I'm saying the marathon IN Boston, on this day, was the target...
And you would be wrong... it wasn't anti-gov't types.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Tax Day, Patriot's Day in Mass, Boston home of revolution and the Tea Party.
All adds up to a statement, if you were looking for patterns in the chaos.
So then you do NOT think the Boston Marathon was the target. Interesting. What do you think they would have hit on the 15th if the Marathon had been on the 12th or 16th or any date besides the 15th?
I don't agree with you at all by the way. I think the event was the target. If you are going to use a symbolic date you also choose a more symbolic target. US Anti-govt types in the past have hit gov't type targets. These guys instead chose a target the same way jihadist types do, a public event in a public place and civilians....
I didn't say the marathon wasn't the target, I'm saying the marathon IN Boston, on this day, was the target...
And you would be wrong... it wasn't anti-gov't types.
So, Chechen terrorists are pro-government types?
Whatever, claim your victory chief. Have a fething cookie.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Tax Day, Patriot's Day in Mass, Boston home of revolution and the Tea Party.
All adds up to a statement, if you were looking for patterns in the chaos.
So then you do NOT think the Boston Marathon was the target. Interesting. What do you think they would have hit on the 15th if the Marathon had been on the 12th or 16th or any date besides the 15th?
I don't agree with you at all by the way. I think the event was the target. If you are going to use a symbolic date you also choose a more symbolic target. US Anti-govt types in the past have hit gov't type targets. These guys instead chose a target the same way jihadist types do, a public event in a public place and civilians....
I didn't say the marathon wasn't the target, I'm saying the marathon IN Boston, on this day, was the target...
And you would be wrong... it wasn't anti-gov't types.
So, Chechen terrorists are pro-government types?
Whatever, claim your victory chief. Have a fething cookie.
No, Chechen terrorists are jihadist insurrectionists. They have been fighting the Russians since Ivan the Terrible. These are the same guys that took over the elementary school, wired it up with bombs and slaughtered a bunch of them, as well as the ones who attacked the ballet theater.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Tax Day, Patriot's Day in Mass, Boston home of revolution and the Tea Party.
All adds up to a statement, if you were looking for patterns in the chaos.
So then you do NOT think the Boston Marathon was the target. Interesting. What do you think they would have hit on the 15th if the Marathon had been on the 12th or 16th or any date besides the 15th?
I don't agree with you at all by the way. I think the event was the target. If you are going to use a symbolic date you also choose a more symbolic target. US Anti-govt types in the past have hit gov't type targets. These guys instead chose a target the same way jihadist types do, a public event in a public place and civilians....
I didn't say the marathon wasn't the target, I'm saying the marathon IN Boston, on this day, was the target...
And you would be wrong... it wasn't anti-gov't types.
So, Chechen terrorists are pro-government types?
Whatever, claim your victory chief. Have a fething cookie.
No Chechen terrorists are jihadist insurrectionists. They have been fighting the Russians since Ivan the Terrible.
These are the same guys that took over the elementary school, wired it up with bombs and slaughtered a bunch of them, as well as the ones who attacked the ballet theater.
And we have killed Chechens in Afghanistan and Iraq. As I stated earlier in the thread, this attack fit an AQ template, and due to target selection (the marathon) absolutely did NOT fit anti-gov't terrorist attacks.
CptJake wrote: It shouldn't. They came in legally which isn't the issue with the immigration debate.
Perhaps it should be.
Might be time to turn on the No Vacancy light.
I think we need to re-look a lot. Turning on the No Vacancy light probably isn't the smartest approach, but being a lot more selective may be worth looking at.
Frazzled wrote: No, Chechen terrorists are jihadist insurrectionists. They have been fighting the Russians since Ivan the Terrible.
These are the same guys that took over the elementary school, wired it up with bombs and slaughtered a bunch of them, as well as the ones who attacked the ballet theater.
If they are Chechen then its something I didn't see coming, Chechen's traditionally have a grudge against the Russians. Last I heard these brothers had been here for 10 years so unless they were only recently radicalised.
Then again we have seen multiple nationalities travel to Iraq and Afghanistan to wage war
How would the Immigration Bureau have been able to tell ten years ago that this particular guy was going to become a terrorist in ten year's time?
Considering he was about 10-12 years old at the time, he probably might have been 'turned' by experiences he received inside the US, in which case any prior method of detection would be useless.
No, Chechen terrorists are jihadist insurrectionists. They have been fighting the Russians since Ivan the Terrible.
These are the same guys that took over the elementary school, wired it up with bombs and slaughtered a bunch of them, as well as the ones who attacked the ballet theater.
Um, frazz, actually it was the Russians that did the slaughtering in those instances, IIRC. The Chechens tried to take hostages, forgetting the Russians don't worry about killing their own people to make a point, That elementary school (assuming it's the one I'm thinking of) got run over with Tanks to make sure the rebels were dead, the children were simply 'collateral damage'.
What strikes me as odd is based on what we know about the two brothers that supposedly carried this out is that they REALLY do not fit the profile. Successful, lived in the US for more than a decade, the older brother was a tryout for the US Olympic boxing team and the younger had just received a scholarship from Cambridge to study as an engineer, The younger is 19 and still on the loose, the older is 26 and was shot dead by police.
I'm reading through the info atm. The whole thing really smells. There's something to this we're not seeing or being told.
No, Chechen terrorists are jihadist insurrectionists. They have been fighting the Russians since Ivan the Terrible.
These are the same guys that took over the elementary school, wired it up with bombs and slaughtered a bunch of them, as well as the ones who attacked the ballet theater.
Um, frazz, actually it was the Russians that did the slaughtering in those instances, IIRC. The Chechens tried to take hostages, forgetting the Russians don't worry about killing their own people to make a point, That elementary school (assuming it's the one I'm thinking of) got run over with Tanks to make sure the rebels were dead, the children were simply 'collateral damage'.
What strikes me as odd is based on what we know about the two brothers that supposedly carried this out is that they REALLY do not fit the profile. Successful, lived in the US for more than a decade, the older brother was a tryout for the US Olympic boxing team and the younger had just received a scholarship from Cambridge to study as an engineer, The younger is 19 and still on the loose, the older is 26 and was shot dead by police.
Which just goes to show how scary the brainwashing can be...
BaronIveagh wrote: Um, frazz, actually it was the Russians that did the slaughtering in those instances, IIRC. The Chechens tried to take hostages, forgetting the Russians don't worry about killing their own people to make a point, That elementary school (assuming it's the one I'm thinking of) got run over with Tanks to make sure the rebels were dead, the children were simply 'collateral damage'.
Which just goes to show how scary the brainwashing can be...
I'm gonna assume you're joking on this. Ten years is more than enough time for most brain washing to lose a lot of effectiveness. Or are you talking about the Russians brainwashing themselves to not care about human life, which I will agree, can be pretty scary on occasion.
Which just goes to show how scary the brainwashing can be...
I'm gonna assume you're joking on this. Ten years is more than enough time for most brain washing to lose a lot of effectiveness. Or are you talking about the Russians brainwashing themselves to not care about human life, which I will agree, can be pretty scary on occasion.
I'm dead serious. You've got two people who were basically living the American dream, turned into stone cold mass murderers. They didn't just wake up one day and decide to do this. There were outside influences from somewhere.
I was hoping that this wouldn't come down to religious motivation, but it appears on the current information that it could well be. And yet again, innocents are murdered in the name of some fictional god.
Apologies if you are religious in any way, no offence meant, but it's beginning to look like the world would be a much safer place if we just banned all organised religion.
Eggs wrote: I was hoping that this wouldn't come down to religious motivation, but it appears on the current information that it could well be. And yet again, innocents are murdered in the name of some fictional god.
Apologies if you are religious in any way, no offence meant, but it's beginning to look like the world would be a much safer place if we just banned all organised religion.
"No offense"
*says organized religion is terrible for the world*
I'm atheist, but that's just a stupid contradiction.
Might want to read it yourself. T-72 tanks and 9 thermobaric missiles into an enclosed area filled with hostages? And remember that it's Russian numbers. 350 odd hostages were killed, and 200 or so remain missing and unaccounted for. (Because they were incinerated when they were hit with thermometric weapons in an enclosed area, or blown to smithereens either by the tank fire or by the bombs they were wired with detonating for various reasons.)
Not saying the rebels didn't kill people, but that the amount of butchery that went on the part of the Russian attack force.
Eggs wrote: I was hoping that this wouldn't come down to religious motivation, but it appears on the current information that it could well be. And yet again, innocents are murdered in the name of some fictional god.
Apologies if you are religious in any way, no offence meant, but it's beginning to look like the world would be a much safer place if we just banned all organised religion.
People with malicious intent generally don't need a reason to kill others, religion is just a nice fig leaf that gives them some justification for their actions.
A tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny
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BaronIveagh wrote: Might want to read it yourself. T-72 tanks and 9 thermobaric missiles into an enclosed area filled with hostages? And remember that it's Russian numbers. 350 odd hostages were killed, and 200 or so remain missing and unaccounted for. (Because they were incinerated when they were hit with thermometric weapons in an enclosed area, or blown to smithereens either by the tank fire or by the bombs they were wired with detonating for various reasons.)
I did read it, I read what both sides did and didn't just focus on either or
I don't think it would have been any better if it had been a non-religiously motivated reason. The same events occur either way, and the people doing it are still so far off the reservation that their views are pretty marginlized to begin with.
"I don't like taxes, so I killed people" is stupid.
"I don't believe in private ownership of the means of production so I killed people" is stupid.
"My god wants people to act the way I think he thinks he wants them to act so I killed people" is stupid.
Eggs wrote: I was hoping that this wouldn't come down to religious motivation, but it appears on the current information that it could well be. And yet again, innocents are murdered in the name of some fictional god.
Apologies if you are religious in any way, no offence meant, but it's beginning to look like the world would be a much safer place if we just banned all organised religion.
"No offense"
*says organized religion is terrible for the world*
I'm atheist, but that's just a stupid contradiction.
How is it a contradiction? Hasn't organised religion been at the root of pretty much every war for the last two thousand years? It's probably the only thing responsible for more death than disease.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: People with malicious intent generally don't need a reason to kill others, religion is just a nice fig leaf that gives them some justification for their actions.
Eggs wrote: a much safer place if we just banned all organised religion.
Ironically, Jesus was a big opponent of what we now call organized religion. So....
I'm not buying the religion argument here though. Only Fox is, so far, carrying the 'Muslim' statement, though who knows. Boston is hardly a hotbed of Radical Islam. I'm still not seeing any sort of motive, even a religious one. For a 'mad dog killer' argument, one person would make sense, but two people makes it a stretch.
Bloomberg News reporter Asjylyn Loder has told BBC World Service radio that she spoke to Chris Bauman, the bother of Jeff Bauman - who identified one of the suspects after having both his legs amputated below the knee after Monday's bomb attack.
Chris said that when Jeff woke up from anaesthesia after surgery he asked for a pen and paper and wrote down that he had seen the guy and that they showed the note to the FBI and that he was able to give a description of the man. He was waiting for his girlfriend and he saw this man set this bag down and he looked him right in the eyes and two and a half minutes later the bag exploded.
And I think we can do without the 123,456th would the world be better off without religion debate, and the back and forth over how much we blame the Russians/whomever and so on. Thanks.
.. Pat Robertson rails against the evils of D&D, Millwall soccer fans rioting, Maggie T. divides the nation and the threat of nuclear war from a communist state.
. whose idea was this 80s revival anyway ?
.. .. oh god, Dallas is back on the TV too isn't it ?
.. Pat Robertson rails against the evils of D&D, Millwall soccer fans rioting, Maggie T. divides the nation and the threat of nuclear war from a communist state.
. whose idea was this 80s revival anyway ?
.. .. oh god, Dallas is back on the TV too isn't it ?
Bloomberg News reporter Asjylyn Loder has told BBC World Service radio that she spoke to Chris Bauman, the bother of Jeff Bauman - who identified one of the suspects after having both his legs amputated below the knee after Monday's bomb attack.
Chris said that when Jeff woke up from anaesthesia after surgery he asked for a pen and paper and wrote down that he had seen the guy and that they showed the note to the FBI and that he was able to give a description of the man. He was waiting for his girlfriend and he saw this man set this bag down and he looked him right in the eyes and two and a half minutes later the bag exploded.
p until all hell broke loose late last night in the greater Boston area, Bloomberg had staked a claim to finding one of the most interesting twists in the larger story around the marathon bombing: 27-year-old Jeff Bauman, upon waking up from surgery after losing both of his legs to the blast, provided a description of one of the two men believed to be behind the bombings. It was that description, his brother says, that helped federal investigators crack the case wide open:
Just before 3 p.m. on April 15, Bauman was waiting among the crowd for his girlfriend to cross the finish line at the Boston Marathon. A man wearing a cap, sunglasses and a black jacket over a hooded sweatshirt looked at Jeff, 27, and dropped a bag at his feet, his brother, Chris Bauman, said in an interview.
Two and a half minutes later, the bag exploded, tearing Jeff’s legs apart. ... He lost both legs below the knee. "He woke up under so much drugs, asked for a paper and pen and wrote, ‘bag, saw the guy, looked right at me'," Chris Bauman said yesterday in an interview. ...
While still in intensive care, Jeff Bauman gave the FBI a description of the man he saw, his brother said. Bauman’s information helped investigators narrow down whom to look for in hours of video of the attack, he said.
Like the rest of the Internet, I want that story to be true. But it's worth noting that a close reading makes it clear that this is Chris Bauman's version of events, not his brother's and certainly not the FBI's, which declined to comment on the story. Jeff Bauman's description could have been what broke open the case. It also may not have. We can't know for sure without hearing from the FBI, and they're a little busy at the moment. Still, given Jeff Bauman's location at the time of the blast, and what we now know about the suspects, his brother's version certainly appears possible and maybe even likely.
Assuming it is accurate, it makes for a truly amazing story, all the more so because it involves a chain of events that can be tracked through newspaper clippings back nearly a decade to 2004, when we first met Carlos Arredondo, the man who rushed to Bauman's aid Monday. Arredondo, for those who aren't familiar with his painful past, lost one of his sons in the Iraq War. When the Marines came to tell him, he was so overcome with grief he set himself on fire inside their van, in the process becoming "one of the iconic images of the Iraq war," in the words of the Washington Post. On Monday, he was cast in a different iconic image:
(Quick note: There's a little confusion given Bloomberg's use of "yesterday" and the fact the story was originally published late Thursday. But I spoke with one of the reporters who wrote the story, Esmé E. Deprez, and she explained to me late last night that the interview indeed happened Thursday after the FBI presser.)
The discussion with regards to the actions of the Russians and the merits of religions are not needed or wanted in this thread.
Further posts on these topics will be treated as spam and deletions and/or warnings will be handed out for any such posts.
The surviving Boston bomb suspect has been identified as Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge, Mass., a federal law enforcement official told USA TODAY.
Police have identified Tsarnaev's older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, as the other bombing suspect, killed during the manhunt at MIT.
The brothers had been living together on Norfolk Street in Cambridge. An uncle, Ruslan Tsarni of Montgomery Village, Md., told The Associated Press that the men lived together near Boston and have been in the United States for about a decade. They came from the Russian region near Chechnya, which has been plagued by an Islamic insurgency stemming from separatist wars.
Tsarnaev was a wrestler at the Cambridge Rindge and Latin School in Cambridge, Mass. He was named a Greater Boston League Winter All Star in 2011.
Cambridge Rindge and Latin School did not immediately respond to USA TODAY's phone calls. Many Boston-area schools were closed Friday.
None
This surveillance photo released via Twitter by the Boston Police shows the second Boston Marathon shooting suspect entering a convenience store.(Photo: AP)
In May of 2011, as a high school senior, Tsarnaev was awarded a $2,500 City Scholarship from the City of Cambridge to pursue higher education.
Before moving to the United States, he attended School No. 1 in Makhachkala, the capital of Dagestan, a predominantly Muslim republic in Russia's North Caucasus that has become an epicenter of the Islamic insurgency that spilled over from Chechnya.
His profile on the Russian social networking site Vkontakte says, he lists his languages as English, Russian and Nohchiyn Mott (a Chechen language). His world view is described as "Islam" and he says his personal goal is "career and money."
A "joke" posted on the profile page, translated from Russian, says: "There is a car... in the car sits a Dagestani, a Chechen and an Ingush. Question - who is driving? The answer: - The Police."
This is an old joke that has been told with a myriad of ethnic "passengers", meant to imply that if a certain ethnic person is in the car, the only reason would be because they had been arrested, says Andrea McCarren of WUSA-TV in Washington, D.C., who had the posts translated.
The father of the suspects in the Boston Marathon bombing claims that his son who is still on the loose is a smart and accomplished young man.
Anzor Tsarnaev spoke with The Associated Press by telephone from the Russian city of Makhachkala on Friday after police said one of his sons, Tamerlan, had been killed in a shootout and the other, Dzhokhar, was being intensely pursued.
"My son is a true angel," the elder Tsarnaev said. "Dzhokhar is a second-year medical student in the U.S. He is such an intelligent boy. We expected him to come on holidays here."
kronk wrote: Older brother talked his younger brother into something insane?
Eh... possible, but both really don't have any clear motive. What seems even stranger is that the older brother was killed by a combination of bullet wounds and shrapnel. If the story that they were throwing bombs at them from a car is true, that doesn't make sense.
Thn again we have Elvis Impersonators mailing the President ricin so... insanity reigns?
One report said he had an explosive on his body, which is why they believe the other suspect might also have a strapped-on explosive, as the police blotter said.
Maybe it was hit by a bullet and went off?
As for motive, people do dumb things for many reasons. I don't doubt that these gentlemen were picked on for being "different" their whole lives. The older brother dropped out of college to become a boxer, but that appears not to have worked for him. Mad at the world?
I don't know. I think we'll find out more if they catch the younger brother alive.
Ahtman wrote: I don't think it would have been any better if it had been a non-religiously motivated reason. The same events occur either way, and the people doing it are still so far off the reservation that their views are pretty marginlized to begin with.
"I don't like taxes, so I killed people" is stupid.
"I don't believe in private ownership of the means of production so I killed people" is stupid.
"My god wants people to act the way I think he thinks he wants them to act so I killed people" is stupid.
Which just goes to show how scary the brainwashing can be...
I'm gonna assume you're joking on this. Ten years is more than enough time for most brain washing to lose a lot of effectiveness. Or are you talking about the Russians brainwashing themselves to not care about human life, which I will agree, can be pretty scary on occasion.
I'm dead serious. You've got two people who were basically living the American dream, turned into stone cold mass murderers. They didn't just wake up one day and decide to do this. There were outside influences from somewhere.
The older brother was here for about 10 years... the younger was only here for about a year.
kronk wrote: Older brother talked his younger brother into something insane?
Thn again we have Elvis Impersonators mailing the President ricin so... insanity reigns?
Wasn't that debunked?
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Kilkrazy wrote: How would the Immigration Bureau have been able to tell ten years ago that this particular guy was going to become a terrorist in ten year's time?
Considering he was about 10-12 years old at the time, he probably might have been 'turned' by experiences he received inside the US, in which case any prior method of detection would be useless.
I think the older brother was here for about ten years... that'd place him at age 16/17 when he immigrated. The younger brother was only here for a year.
The guy was in the USA for 10 years. How was the IB suppose to know 10 years ago, that his younger brother would be able to persuade him to become a terrorist in 10 years time?
The guy was in the USA for 10 years. How was the IB suppose to know 10 years ago, that his younger brother would be able to persuade him to become a terrorist in 10 years time?
It doesn't (at least I don't think it does).
Suspect 1 was 26 years old and immigrated 10 years ago or so...
Suspect 2 was the younger brother at 19 immigrated a year ago...
Because there's 10 year gap, this leads me to believe that this was planned long ago, rather than some rapid radicalization...
Suspect 1 was 26 years old and immigrated 10 years ago or so...
Suspect 2 was the younger brother at 19 immigrated a year ago...
Because there's 10 year gap, this leads me to believe that this was planned long ago, rather than some rapid radicalization...
I'm gonna ask where you got the fact that suspect 2 came to the US in the last two years. Everything I'm reading has them coming to the US 10 years ago.
And I've seen some long term games, but waiting ten years in a plan to blow up the Boston Marathon seems unlikely to me, as it's an annual event.
The guy was in the USA for 10 years. How was the IB suppose to know 10 years ago, that his younger brother would be able to persuade him to become a terrorist in 10 years time?
It doesn't (at least I don't think it does).
Suspect 1 was 26 years old and immigrated 10 years ago or so...
Suspect 2 was the younger brother at 19 immigrated a year ago...
Because there's 10 year gap, this leads me to believe that this was planned long ago, rather than some rapid radicalization...
It probably wasn't planned 'long' ago (unless within the last year is a long time) and these kids probably did go through a radicalization process that did take a couple of years. What will be interesting is the support network (if it exists and I suspect it does). How much training did they get (and where)? Did they do the recon and mission planning? Who got them their weapons?
Suspect 1 was 26 years old and immigrated 10 years ago or so...
Suspect 2 was the younger brother at 19 immigrated a year ago...
Because there's 10 year gap, this leads me to believe that this was planned long ago, rather than some rapid radicalization...
I'm gonna ask where you got the fact that suspect 2 came to the US in the last two years. Everything I'm reading has them coming to the US 10 years ago.
And I've seen some long term games, but waiting ten years in a plan to blow up the Boston Marathon seems unlikely to me, as it's an annual event.
The guy was in the USA for 10 years. How was the IB suppose to know 10 years ago, that his younger brother would be able to persuade him to become a terrorist in 10 years time?
It doesn't (at least I don't think it does).
Suspect 1 was 26 years old and immigrated 10 years ago or so...
Suspect 2 was the younger brother at 19 immigrated a year ago...
Because there's 10 year gap, this leads me to believe that this was planned long ago, rather than some rapid radicalization...
It probably wasn't planned 'long' ago (unless within the last year is a long time) and these kids probably did go through a radicalization process that did take a couple of years. What will be interesting is the support network (if it exists and I suspect it does). How much training did they get (and where)? Did they do the recon and mission planning? Who got them their weapons?
Don't you think it's possible that they've acted alone?
A little over two hours ago, someone opened a Twitter account for Dzhokhar A Tsarnaev, one of the two brothers still at large as of this writing and responsible for the Boston Marathon Bombing. The profile picture is of the fugitive but is cropped from a picture available online.
The last tweet is in Russian and is a translation of the previous tweet:
Boston Police Dept. ✔ @Boston_Police
#WANTED: Suspect identified as 19 year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev of Cambridge. Suspect considered armed & dangerous. pic.twitter.com/jFdHLGsrGc
Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev @Dzhokhar_A
@Boston_Police I will kill you all as you killed my brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev #watertown one killed i think one injured;;;; gooooo hell
1:42 PM - 19 Apr 2013
The rest of the tweets are variations of “I will kill you.”
Right now, there are over four thousand following the account and Fox has labeled it as “internet intelligence.”
It seems unlikely that an angry and presumably panicked 19 year old being hunted by thousands of heavily armed men would take the time to tweet about it and is more likely a sad cry for attention.
Don't you think it's possible that they've acted alone?
Possible yes. Probable no.
They got training somewhere. Some of the skills they have shown are hard to self teach. The level of radicalization they got to is indicative of outside influence. The resources they have displayed over he last 13 hours are another indicator of a support mechanism.
But, I do not know. It COULD have been just them. We'll see. I just know that the indicators being reported seem to show they were not completely alone in this.
It's not that hard. Me and a friend at school were making electrically detonated pipe bombs with fertilizer and sugar at the age of 12, in the early 1970s.
We just used basic physics and chemistry out of textbooks, no specialist knowledge or training at all.
I think by the age of 26 we might have graduated to timer or radio detonation if we hadn't stopped because it was illegal.
Don't you think it's possible that they've acted alone?
Possible yes. Probable no.
They got training somewhere. Some of the skills they have shown are hard to self teach. The level of radicalization they got to is indicative of outside influence. The resources they have displayed over he last 13 hours are another indicator of a support mechanism.
But, I do not know. It COULD have been just them. We'll see. I just know that the indicators being reported seem to show they were not completely alone in this.
I disagree. People with training would have left town within an hour of the bombing, the devices were very poorly built, and only idiots get into extended car chases with the police.
I'm not talking about just the bomb making though. You are right, and as I have pointed out Inspire has the 'recipe' for that type.
I am talking about the reports they used grenades against the cops. I am taking about the way they fought the one engagement where the one kid got capped. And other things.
Don't you think it's possible that they've acted alone?
Possible yes. Probable no.
They got training somewhere. Some of the skills they have shown are hard to self teach. The level of radicalization they got to is indicative of outside influence. The resources they have displayed over he last 13 hours are another indicator of a support mechanism.
But, I do not know. It COULD have been just them. We'll see. I just know that the indicators being reported seem to show they were not completely alone in this.
Okay... fair enough.
fething hell... we need to show our appreciation for all the LEO, FBI, EMT, Docs, & Samanitarians... they're all fething heroes.
We need to setup a website somehow that accepts donations to be used to buy "rounds" for these folks at their favorite pubs/resturants.
CptJake wrote: I'm not talking about just the bomb making though. You are right, and as I have pointed out Inspire has the 'recipe' for that type.
I am talking about the reports they used grenades against the cops. I am taking about the way they fought the one engagement where the one kid got capped. And other things.
That has not yet been confirmed, and it could just have easily been pipe bombs. Though I suspect before this is all over that we find out the cops were also using grenades, but that might just be my cynicism about anyone being taken alive in all this.
Point of fact it can be quite easy to teach those skills. The US Army has entire handbooks on it.
Don't you think it's possible that they've acted alone?
Possible yes. Probable no.
They got training somewhere. Some of the skills they have shown are hard to self teach. The level of radicalization they got to is indicative of outside influence. The resources they have displayed over he last 13 hours are another indicator of a support mechanism.
But, I do not know. It COULD have been just them. We'll see. I just know that the indicators being reported seem to show they were not completely alone in this.
I disagree. People with training would have left town within an hour of the bombing, the devices were very poorly built, and only idiots get into extended car chases with the police.
You assume they think like you and would unass the AO. Having more devices is indicative of wanting to carry out more attacks. Not going suicide is indicative of having more mission to carry out. Staying local to the area you know makes a lot of sense, (out bound travel was VERY tightly watched after the event) especially if you assume your support structure may help you (bad assumption, any support structure will go deep under ground).
Don't you think it's possible that they've acted alone?
Possible yes. Probable no.
They got training somewhere. Some of the skills they have shown are hard to self teach. The level of radicalization they got to is indicative of outside influence. The resources they have displayed over he last 13 hours are another indicator of a support mechanism.
But, I do not know. It COULD have been just them. We'll see. I just know that the indicators being reported seem to show they were not completely alone in this.
I disagree. People with training would have left town within an hour of the bombing, the devices were very poorly built, and only idiots get into extended car chases with the police.
You assume they think like you and would unass the AO. Having more devices is indicative of wanting to carry out more attacks. Not going suicide is indicative of having more mission to carry out. Staying local to the area you know makes a lot of sense, (out bound travel was VERY tightly watched after the event) especially if you assume your support structure may help you (bad assumption, any support structure will go deep under ground).
But, what do I know.
CptJake... where are you seeing they had grenades? And Baron... I'm sure the LEO can distinguish a grenade vs pipebomb....
Don't you think it's possible that they've acted alone?
Possible yes. Probable no.
They got training somewhere. Some of the skills they have shown are hard to self teach. The level of radicalization they got to is indicative of outside influence. The resources they have displayed over he last 13 hours are another indicator of a support mechanism.
But, I do not know. It COULD have been just them. We'll see. I just know that the indicators being reported seem to show they were not completely alone in this.
I disagree. People with training would have left town within an hour of the bombing, the devices were very poorly built, and only idiots get into extended car chases with the police.
You assume they think like you and would unass the AO. Having more devices is indicative of wanting to carry out more attacks. Not going suicide is indicative of having more mission to carry out. Staying local to the area you know makes a lot of sense, (out bound travel was VERY tightly watched after the event) especially if you assume your support structure may help you (bad assumption, any support structure will go deep under ground).
But, what do I know.
CptJake... where are you seeing they had grenades? And Baron... I'm sure the LEO can distinguish a grenade vs pipebomb....
Scanner last night. And no, cops having anything thrown at them in the dark, especially if it goes BOOM may call the object grenades. We will find out the truth later.
But, again, the TTPs they followed from the original bombing through right now, and other things indicate to me a support structure of some type. Maybe limited. I maybe completely wrong (and actually hope I am), but I have a tiny bit of experience in this type of thing and I am calling it as understand it based on what we are hearing and seeing.
You assume they think like you and would unass the AO. Having more devices is indicative of wanting to carry out more attacks. Not going suicide is indicative of having more mission to carry out. Staying local to the area you know makes a lot of sense, (out bound travel was VERY tightly watched after the event) especially if you assume your support structure may help you (bad assumption, any support structure will go deep under ground).
But, what do I know.
It's not actually that hard. (And within an hour the police would still have been setting up roadblocks. You really don't appreciate how large a metropolitan area like Boston is until you try to cordon it off.)
And so far I have not heard anything confirmed about additional devices.
I can say that people of my acquaintance have passed through police road blocks and check points by the simple expedient of stealing a news van and waving a press pass at the police officers. And they came up with that one on the spot rather than planned it.
This is how I would have done it:
Acquire fake ID, set up a safe house and two vehicles. Buy a hair cut kit and hair dye. Store my devices etc off site at a storage locker under an assumed name. Make me some RDX. Carry out the small bombs and then ambulance blast plan I outlined earlier. Exit scene and cut my hair, and shave. Use hair dye (in my case easy because I'm light brown haired). Put on an egragariously American Tshirt and jeans, drive away. Have papers in order if stopped. Cross into Canada, or drive to Mexico. Fly away. (OR, if i have other targets in mind: leave town until heat is off. Recover devices at storage locker after two months or so if they are not yet found and hit target.)
CptJake wrote: We'll see. I stand by my analysis. So far I've been on the mark.
It'd not a bad analysis, but you're jumping to conclusions much the way I was looking at it as most likely domestic. (though we don't yet know their actual motives, so it might still be domestic.)
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So far my favorite theory is that this is a false flag operation initiated by Putin to unite the U.S. and Russia in common hatred of Jihadis.
A bit far fetched... but I can actually picture Putin doing something like that, as he's cold blooded enough that if he thought it would work...
Don't you think it's possible that they've acted alone?
Possible yes. Probable no.
They got training somewhere. Some of the skills they have shown are hard to self teach. The level of radicalization they got to is indicative of outside influence. The resources they have displayed over he last 13 hours are another indicator of a support mechanism.
But, I do not know. It COULD have been just them. We'll see. I just know that the indicators being reported seem to show they were not completely alone in this.
As Canadian intelligence has been seeing, AQ's newest favorite tactic is to radicalise young North American youth and turn them into willing fighters. Much easier to send a few spotters & recruiters over here, pick-out those youth who show the kind of signs and behaviors they're looking for, then send them off overseas to recieve training and finally use them either as foriegn fighters or else send them back home to cause mayham here.
Not saying this is what happened with these two idiots, but I'd be willing to wager a guess that it's a likely possibility and can readily explain how two otherwise 'normal' and 'caring' individuals turn into mass killers within a short period of time.
Look at the 2 Canadian kids killed in the Algerian hostage taking earlier this year... (plus a third kid being held by foriegn police and CSIS + RCMP looking for a 4th kid)
Wether these kids are simply looking for a sense of belonging/family, or see it as kind of adventure, or even just gaining the nothing of doing something important & meaningful with their lives.
And just what is the mineral composition of the rock you apparently live under?
Nice personal attack.
Ethnicity means nothing in this case. Ideology and motivation are what drives the attack.
Why am I wrong?
We know AQ and their ilk purposely recruit white/euro/anglo looking types.
Not a personal attack; sorry if it came across as such. I'm just trying to point out that you apparently never noticed the hard shift towards many, many people being openly anti-Arab following 2001.
Just confused about your choice in moving this conversation into something else entirely.
