Thee are dozens of alternate universes in DC but in current cannon, the DNA of Kryptonians and Humans is incompatible.
And for the record Armagedon 2001 was awesome and featured allot of amazing alternate futures for DC characters. I paticularly like the one where Superman becomes pompous and begins to imposes his will on the world, until they send Batman in a reversal fight from that of DKR where in this situation Batman kills Superman. It was great. Armagedon 2001 was ruined by storyline leaks that spoiled the ending where Captain Atom turned out to be Monarch and was a much more plausible incarnation of Monarch than Hawk was.
NecronLord3 wrote: Thee are dozens of alternate universes in DC but in current cannon, the DNA of Kryptonians and Humans is incompatible.
They've already established this in the "New 52"?
Man, they move fast!
I missed that. Not saying that it hasn't been established, but I don't remember seeing it in Action Comics or Superman in the New 52. Was it in Supergirl or Superboy?
Of course, the point remains that the movie is in fact a sort of alternate universe to the comics anyway.
Edit: Back on topic, I forgot to mention that the shot in the movie of Krypton's destroyed moon was a nice nod to the old comics. I believe Jax-Ur was the one who wrecked it, although he doesn't appear to be the guilty party in Man of Steel.
NecronLord3 wrote: Thee are dozens of alternate universes in DC but in current cannon, the DNA of Kryptonians and Humans is incompatible.
They've already established this in the "New 52"?
Man, they move fast!
I missed that. Not saying that it hasn't been established, but I don't remember seeing it in Action Comics or Superman in the New 52. Was it in Supergirl or Superboy?
Of course, the point remains that the movie is in fact a sort of alternate universe to the comics anyway.
Edit: Back on topic, I forgot to mention that the shot in the movie of Krypton's destroyed moon was a nice nod to the old comics. I believe Jax-Ur was the one who wrecked it, although he doesn't appear to be the guilty party in Man of Steel.
This is exactly why I can't understand, much less get into anything DC, everything is friggen time travel or extra dimensions or some BS I watched a cartoon movie with my sisters kid while babysitting him, it was alternate reality superman being a mob boss or something and alt. reality batman trying to blow up the world
Then the next movie was all time travel BS Then the video game comes out, its alt. reality superman being evil
I can deal with this, its stupid, but I can deal with it, I treat it like a TNG episode where everything is all weird "lol what if everyone was a pirate! but still sort of the regular characters too!" its fairly typical bad writing.
What gets me isn't just bad writing, its that they try and tie everything together, its just terrible.
Also is it just me or does the finale of this movie make me want to make a 3rd person pvp game like bid for power from a million years ago, but add in silly amounts of punching people through buildings and collateral damage.
I don't think they tried to tie this movie to the comic universe at all, but DC is known for alternate Universes and on several occasions tried to rid themselves of them only to immediately go back to them. Marvel does it a little, but nowhere near as bad (616, Ultimate).
NecronLord3 wrote: Thee are dozens of alternate universes in DC but in current cannon, the DNA of Kryptonians and Humans is incompatible.
They've already established this in the "New 52"?
Man, they move fast!
I missed that. Not saying that it hasn't been established, but I don't remember seeing it in Action Comics or Superman in the New 52. Was it in Supergirl or Superboy?
Of course, the point remains that the movie is in fact a sort of alternate universe to the comics anyway.
Edit: Back on topic, I forgot to mention that the shot in the movie of Krypton's destroyed moon was a nice nod to the old comics. I believe Jax-Ur was the one who wrecked it, although he doesn't appear to be the guilty party in Man of Steel.
This is exactly why I can't understand, much less get into anything DC, everything is friggen time travel or extra dimensions or some BS I watched a cartoon movie with my sisters kid while babysitting him, it was alternate reality superman being a mob boss or something and alt. reality batman trying to blow up the world
Then the next movie was all time travel BS Then the video game comes out, its alt. reality superman being evil
I can deal with this, its stupid, but I can deal with it, I treat it like a TNG episode where everything is all weird "lol what if everyone was a pirate! but still sort of the regular characters too!" its fairly typical bad writing.
What gets me isn't just bad writing, its that they try and tie everything together, its just terrible.
Also is it just me or does the finale of this movie make me want to make a 3rd person pvp game like bid for power from a million years ago, but add in silly amounts of punching people through buildings and collateral damage.
*shrug* Marvel has its own multiverse, Ultimates, clone sagas, whatever was going on with Age of Ultron, etc. It doesn't fully reboot the universe like DC periodically does, but then that leaves decades of continuity hopelessly tangled and confusing in spots. The X-books are a prime example. Marvel may go about its business differently than DC, but they end up in roughly the same place, which is why you shouldn't sweat precise continuity much for characters that have been around for decades.
I don't really know what you mean about the ending. To me, it was more or less what you'd expect given 30 years of pent-up demand for a knockdown, drag-out brawl involving Superman that doesn't look like actors gliding around on wires.
*shrug* Marvel has its own multiverse, Ultimates, clone sagas, whatever was going on with Age of Ultron, etc. It doesn't fully reboot the universe like DC periodically does, but then that leaves decades of continuity hopelessly tangled and confusing in spots. The X-books are a prime example. Marvel may go about its business differently than DC, but they end up in roughly the same place.
Maybe its just that every piece of media that I've seen in the last few years from them either directly involves dimensional travel or time travel, or its brought up in every single conversation ive seen about the subject.
Where every Marvel subject is "Oh its iron man, his thing is he's a rich douche with power armor" or "oh, its thor, he's, well, thor"
I'm sure if you nitpick the same nonsense is there, just that DC is laser-accurate zero'd in on it. I know by comparison hulk was different colors, is sometimes angry, sometimes not, sometimes a complicated character, sometimes a drooling idiot, I dont know dude.
I've actually read some of the ultimates, and its fun for the most part, like I said, the issue isn't having these things exist as spinoffs or whatever, its trying to tie everything together in this one big mess.
reds8n wrote: and yet we know Superman has descendants.
Maybe, like in All Star Superman someone clever .. like Luthor .. .. figures out how to make them compatible.
Plus.. there's the whole magic angle too.
Human DNA and Kryptonian DNA are incompatible. Kal's descendants sometimes originate between himself and Wonderwoman. Also his DNA is in the clone from RoS. The Superman Prime was,described as giving a measure of his godlike power to decendents that proved themselves to fight for justice. It's a pothole in MoS that Jor-el,would send Kal to earth to ensure the blood line of all kryptonians when he can't procreate with the indigenous species. Though I guess Diana is also indeginous of earth.
NecronLord3 wrote: It's a pothole in MoS that Jor-el,would send Kal to earth to ensure the blood line of all kryptonians when he can't procreate with the indigenous species.
It is only a plot hole if you confuse the comics for the movie. No where in the film does it say he can't procreate with humans, and even if it were true, it is never stated the only way for him to ensure the survival of all Kryptonians is through procreation with humans.
NecronLord3 wrote: It's a pothole in MoS that Jor-el,would send Kal to earth to ensure the blood line of all kryptonians when he can't procreate with the indigenous species.
It is only a plot hole if you confuse the comics for the movie. No where in the film does it say he can't procreate with humans, and even if it were true, it is never stated the only way for him to ensure the survival of all Kryptonians is through procreation with humans.
I thought that was the point of the Scout ship Matrix tank thingy, that they could suck that out and restart the Krypton species. Weren't they originally looking for the codex as a data device of some sort (which looked like a skull to me) and only found out later it was impregnated in supersuit.
Might be interesting in that, er couldn't they have avoided all that by saying "yo Jor El, broman we need a cheek swab yo so we can restart the species.
What, no we'll boogy somewhere else to restart Krypton II. Had enough of the talking monkeys? Come with us. No, ok then later bro we're outta here."
Movie ends.
They actually didn't need ANY of the movie now that I think about it.
The main problem was, that Zod was wanting to do a bit of DNA spring cleaning out of the codex.
Jor-el wanted to keep the whole diversity thing going, so he sent the codex off with Supes (I apparently got told off for calling him Supes the other day).
NecronLord3 wrote: It's a pothole in MoS that Jor-el,would send Kal to earth to ensure the blood line of all kryptonians when he can't procreate with the indigenous species.
It is only a plot hole if you confuse the comics for the movie. No where in the film does it say he can't procreate with humans, and even if it were true, it is never stated the only way for him to ensure the survival of all Kryptonians is through procreation with humans.
I thought that was the point of the Scout ship Matrix tank thingy, that they could suck that out and restart the Krypton species. Weren't they originally looking for the codex as a data device of some sort (which looked like a skull to me) and only found out later it was impregnated in supersuit.
The movie *clearly* implies that the birthing matrix doesn't require or involve copulation, especially any copulation having to do with Clark. Remember Zod asking if Clark needs to be alive for the DNA to be extracted? Again, it's amazing what holes develop when you invent things and selectively take things from the comics and act like they have a bearing on the movie.
And even though it has no bearing on the movie, I'd still like a citation for where it's been established in the New 52 that Kryptonian DNA is incompatible with human DNA.
kronk wrote: I liked the recent Star Trek 2 better than Man of Steel.
There were some good moments, and some fine acting, but I felt the movie was OK at best.
Spoiler:
Good: The American Robin Hood's influence on Superman.
The show succeeded in making me empathetic, but not sympathetic, with General Zod. I actually liked this character.
Bad: It looked like the Krypton chapter of the script was written my George Lucas, ala Star Wars prequels. It just had that "WTF?" feel to it. Took me out of the movie, actually.
60 minutes of tearing down 1 building after another. I get it. These guys are bad asses. Do I really need to see 400 buildings get torn down, one by one?
WTF? I thought the sun's radiation gave superman his power, not the air. When he goes on the ship, they explain that the Krypton air made him weak. Also, General Zod and hot alien fighter chick didn't get x-ray vision until they took off their masks, but he had super strength from the get go? I don't get it. Big hole there some where.
Also, they destroyed Zod's ship by getting another one close to it that had a warp engine or whatever they call it. 1. Wouldn't everyone in an advanced space-traveling civilization know not to get two of these ships near one another, ala Space Travel 101: gak Not to Do. 2. Wouldn't they have safe guards like, I don't know, a sensor that says "Hey feth-heads, there's a ship within 10 Krypton miles, veer left" and known there was a baby carrier ship with a warp engine approaching? 3. Why the feth would you not have 20-30 of your advanced fighters protecting your world engine? I dunno. I'm not a military guy, I guess.
Awesome: Supes punching Zod in mid air. That scene was freaking cool. Also, "I was bred to be a soldier. Where did you learn to fight? On a farm?" That was pretty funny.
In contrast I thought ST was warmed over ass and loved Superman #24 or whatever this is. Its the first movie I've seen in a theater this year that I really liked.
*Loved Zod, but love that actor. He's epic in Boardwalk Empire. I liked the Zod background. He's not a bad guy. He's trying to save his race in Mongol style.
*Loved the female second in command. Good writing for her.
*Liked the backstory flashbacks. It kept the film pacing excellent.
*Lois Lane - excellent.
*I liked the backstory of an old Kryptonian empire. Now that would be a nice prequel.
*I joked with the wife that this wasn't Superman. This was "flying, punchy Jesus"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
They didn't need to show that if it was meant to show a starvation death. Even Zod seems to be a little unnerved by it. So I think it's supposed to suggest that something nasty is out there. Brainiac? Tyranids?
Superman vs. Nid Biotitans. YES.
Fraz liked Superman and disliked Captain America and, I believe, Avengers? Well, time to face it. Fraz has gone senile people. Time to let him sit on his porch with his puppies.
NecronLord3 wrote: No they're huge. And it has everything to do with whether it good or not.
Nitpicking rarely has determined the overall quality for a film or it's entertainment value, and most of the time what people call plotholes are not plotholes at all. A plothole requires an internal inconsistency within the diegesis of the film, of which there isn't anything blatant in the film that does that.
NecronLord3 wrote: No they're huge. And it has everything to do with whether it good or not.
Nitpicking rarely has determined the overall quality for a film or it's entertainment value, and most of the time what people call plotholes are not plotholes at all. A plothole requires an internal inconsistency within the diegesis of the film, of which there isn't anything blatant in the film that does that.
Here's a good list of just some of the plot holes in this movie.
Fraz liked Superman and disliked Captain America and, I believe, Avengers? Well, time to face it. Fraz has gone senile people. Time to let him sit on his porch with his puppies.
Considering I don't know anyone who liked Captain America personally, suck it! (yea I know logic failure there, but its demonstrative of a very different demographic). Maybe watching things like African Queen put me in a different mindset when it comes to half ass decent writing. Plus I don't read comics. I think I read three as a child, and then Dark Knight.
Avengers storyline was meh. It had a big boring center. It would have been better as just the Bruce Banner/ Tony Stark Banter hour. I would have liked that a lot better actually (and would have fit Whedon's style...). My hopes that Thor would get killed by a small bunny were sadly not to be.
NecronLord3 wrote: No they're huge. And it has everything to do with whether it good or not.
Nitpicking rarely has determined the overall quality for a film or it's entertainment value, and most of the time what people call plotholes are not plotholes at all. A plothole requires an internal inconsistency within the diegesis of the film, of which there isn't anything blatant in the film that does that.
AHTMAN USED A TEN DOLLAR WORD. HE"S LERNT MORE GOODER! FRAZZLED HEAQD SPINNING.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: That list is the very definition of "Nitpicking".
NL3 has got a serious axe to grind vs. MoS.
Who knows why?
He's just jealous of the smoking hot Kryptonian second in command. Now thats a reboot!!!
Watched Avengers again yesterday and I don't get the complaints about the casualties in MoS in comparison. Metropolis had more time to evacuate then they did in Manhattan, and during the battle in Metropolis in MoS the buildings are mostly abandoned, whereas in the Avengers they show people still at work the whole time. There is even a scene where the Chitari(sp) jump though windows and just unload on the people there. I wouldn't be surprised if the casualty rate in MoS was smaller whereas damage to the city was greater, and vice versa in Avengers.
Fraz liked Superman and disliked Captain America and, I believe, Avengers? Well, time to face it. Fraz has gone senile people. Time to let him sit on his porch with his puppies.
Considering I don't know anyone who liked Captain America personally, suck it! (yea I know logic failure there, but its demonstrative of a very different demographic).
Thats because Captain America isn't a "real american"
Fraz liked Superman and disliked Captain America and, I believe, Avengers? Well, time to face it. Fraz has gone senile people. Time to let him sit on his porch with his puppies.
Considering I don't know anyone who liked Captain America personally, suck it! (yea I know logic failure there, but its demonstrative of a very different demographic).
Thats because Captain America isn't a "real american"
Yes and no - the Avengers battle is over a very short time period - although its amusing that traffic was driving normally in some of the later street shots of Metropolis as the punch up goes on and on...........I did think the post attack sequence was better - in Avengers it was - what does it all mean, whose fault was it, we are not alone etc. MoS - back to work as normal in the newspaper building (whihc I thought fell down..........)
Cap A was in my opionion a pretty poor film - the action was subpar GI Joe - at least in that film the baddies minions could actually shoot. Poor main baddie too.
It was a bit wierd that Sups lost his powers due to the atmospheric chnage but could fly / surivive fine in space...........
Also I thought it amusing that Sups dad wanted a "better world" where his superpowered son could rule over lesser beings as a god. But then the dad was pretty much a classic supervillian ?
Evil Lair outside city.
Wierd created space dragon monster to fly around on.
super genius and ninja fighting skills.
Disdain for your civilisations culture etc.
I'm just saying if Captain america represented what Texas wants our values to be and was a racist misogynist xenophobe, he'd be better received in texas and frazzled would know people that liked him.
Mr Morden wrote: Yes and no - the Avengers battle is over a very short time period - although its amusing that traffic was driving normally in some of the later street shots of Metropolis as the punch up goes on and on...........I did think the post attack sequence was better - in Avengers it was - what does it all mean, whose fault was it, we are not alone etc. MoS - back to work as normal in the newspaper building (whihc I thought fell down..........)
Cap A was in my opionion a pretty poor film - the action was subpar GI Joe - at least in that film the baddies minions could actually shoot. Poor main baddie too.
It was a bit wierd that Sups lost his powers due to the atmospheric chnage but could fly / surivive fine in space...........
Also I thought it amusing that Sups dad wanted a "better world" where his superpowered son could rule over lesser beings as a god. But then the dad was pretty much a classic supervillian ?
Evil Lair outside city.
Wierd created space dragon monster to fly around on.
super genius and ninja fighting skills.
Disdain for your civilisations culture etc.
I'm just saying if Captain america represented what Texas wants our values to be and was a racist misogynist xenophobe, he'd be better received in texas and frazzled would know people that liked him.
I do believe you just called me a racist. If you're in Austin this weekend we could discuss that personally.
Fraz liked Superman and disliked Captain America and, I believe, Avengers? Well, time to face it. Fraz has gone senile people. Time to let him sit on his porch with his puppies.
Considering I don't know anyone who liked Captain America personally, suck it! (yea I know logic failure there, but its demonstrative of a very different demographic). Maybe watching things like African Queen put me in a different mindset when it comes to half ass decent writing. Plus I don't read comics. I think I read three as a child, and then Dark Knight.
Avengers storyline was meh. It had a big boring center. It would have been better as just the Bruce Banner/ Tony Stark Banter hour. I would have liked that a lot better actually (and would have fit Whedon's style...). My hopes that Thor would get killed by a small bunny were sadly not to be.
I'm a huge Cap fan since my childhood, and I didn't hate the Cap movie. They got the uniform right. It just wasn't what it could have been, which was a little more Saving Private Ryan and Batman Begins. The Marvel films keep it very light and kid-friendly, which I fully understand and is a smart business move. But Cap represents some of Marvel's best, most grounded material, and it was partially wasted by the film.
And while some would feel this is a nitpick, I feel it isn't -- the Red Skull needs to be a Nazi. Period. Not a was-Nazi, not a sort-of-Nazi. If they want to make him a Super Soldier, fine. But the most important point about the character is that Hitler personally trained him to be the perfect Nazi and representation of Nazi ideals, and Cap is his counterpoint. I know the business reasons why he wasn't, but it hurt the film IMO to make Cap vs. the Red Skull as some kind of separate, private war going on with WWII as the backdrop, instead of being a representation of the greater conflict, with both Cap and the Red Skull getting involved in the fighting alongside regular troops, etc.
The Avengers was a fun romp. It's fun just seeing them on screen together, and the movie has a good mix of humor and action. You have to give Whedon credit for keeping it all together, because that many superhero characters in one film has major trainwreck potential. But it was a thin plot, and the Loki character was reduced to being a garden-variety mustache-twirling villain. After repeat viewings, I still like the film, but probably a little less than I originally did.
Man of Steel isn't a perfect movie either. But I submit that it's actually a much smarter film than some people are giving it credit for, and a lot of nitpicks that people are making about it are easily answered or not actually supported by the film.
