91733
Post by: BaronVonSnakPak
casvalremdeikun wrote:if you want to take the Angel's Wrath formation you need one Squad of Vanguard Veterans and two squads of Assault Marines. So they definitely have a place. It is a good way to get more Assault Squads on the board. VVs aren't terrible, better things exist for the Elites slot. Hence why the formation is good.
Good to know. My elites are overcrowded (I wish DC were fast attack and ASM were troops) but I might just kitbash a squad together anyway.
PanzerLeader wrote:I'm thinking of putting a squad of 6 or 7 in my TAC list with melta bombs for everybody. Throw in a priest and Knights will have to be leary of getting too close.
Sounds fun. Grey Knights or Wraith Knights? There are plenty of both in my area lol.
6686
Post by: PanzerLeader
BaronVonSnakPak wrote:casvalremdeikun wrote:if you want to take the Angel's Wrath formation you need one Squad of Vanguard Veterans and two squads of Assault Marines. So they definitely have a place. It is a good way to get more Assault Squads on the board. VVs aren't terrible, better things exist for the Elites slot. Hence why the formation is good.
Good to know. My elites are overcrowded (I wish DC were fast attack and ASM were troops) but I might just kitbash a squad together anyway.
PanzerLeader wrote:I'm thinking of putting a squad of 6 or 7 in my TAC list with melta bombs for everybody. Throw in a priest and Knights will have to be leary of getting too close.
Sounds fun. Grey Knights or Wraith Knights? There are plenty of both in my area lol.
Dreadknights, Wraith Knights, Imperial Knights, Stompas...none of those really want to run into melta bombs that strike with WS5.
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Post by: Desubot
Razerous wrote:Again, Dreads are still disembarking from the Raven, same difference. Those embarked tacticals are the same.
Now the key question is, how to make this formation effective? I would also suggest including some form of reserve manipulation, as you may need help to get those assaulting units into play.
Well the ones mentioned so far would be the command rhino or i think it was tigger that had the +1 or -1 options. and i think some sort of bunker or LOS blocking shainananges to keep the rhino safe and to add a com relay
A lot of that army is off table and not all of them get rerolls to reserves.
would be the obvious start.
But i do not know the price of that rhino.
91787
Post by: benjak
 Desubot wrote:Razerous wrote:Again, Dreads are still disembarking from the Raven, same difference. Those embarked tacticals are the same.
Now the key question is, how to make this formation effective? I would also suggest including some form of reserve manipulation, as you may need help to get those assaulting units into play.
Well the ones mentioned so far would be the command rhino or i think it was tigger that had the +1 or -1 options. and i think some sort of bunker or LOS blocking shainananges to keep the rhino safe and to add a com relay
A lot of that army is off table and not all of them get rerolls to reserves.
would be the obvious start.
But i do not know the price of that rhino.
I'd just shake the other guy's hand if my storm ravens don't come in and just ask for a rematch immediately  . 3+ rerollable isn't so bad, it just means you automatically lose 12% of the time
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
benjak wrote: Desubot wrote:Razerous wrote:Again, Dreads are still disembarking from the Raven, same difference. Those embarked tacticals are the same.
Now the key question is, how to make this formation effective? I would also suggest including some form of reserve manipulation, as you may need help to get those assaulting units into play.
Well the ones mentioned so far would be the command rhino or i think it was tigger that had the +1 or -1 options. and i think some sort of bunker or LOS blocking shainananges to keep the rhino safe and to add a com relay
A lot of that army is off table and not all of them get rerolls to reserves.
would be the obvious start.
But i do not know the price of that rhino.
I'd just shake the other guy's hand if my storm ravens don't come in and just ask for a rematch immediately . 3+ rerollable isn't so bad, it just means you automatically lose 12% of the time
Like I said earlier (or perhaps in another thread), take a Librarian in Terminator armor and the Archangels detachment and stuff Libby somewhere that it would be incredibly difficult to get at him, and then let the magic happen.
91787
Post by: benjak
 casvalremdeikun wrote:benjak wrote: Desubot wrote:Razerous wrote:Again, Dreads are still disembarking from the Raven, same difference. Those embarked tacticals are the same.
Now the key question is, how to make this formation effective? I would also suggest including some form of reserve manipulation, as you may need help to get those assaulting units into play.
Well the ones mentioned so far would be the command rhino or i think it was tigger that had the +1 or -1 options. and i think some sort of bunker or LOS blocking shainananges to keep the rhino safe and to add a com relay
A lot of that army is off table and not all of them get rerolls to reserves.
would be the obvious start.
But i do not know the price of that rhino.
I'd just shake the other guy's hand if my storm ravens don't come in and just ask for a rematch immediately . 3+ rerollable isn't so bad, it just means you automatically lose 12% of the time
Like I said earlier (or perhaps in another thread), take a Librarian in Terminator armor and the Archangels detachment and stuff Libby somewhere that it would be incredibly difficult to get at him, and then let the magic happen.
Yup you could certainly do that but for me personally, it would bother my sense of verisimilitude to have the libby in terminator armour on the field by his lonesome. I'd much rather have him go into battle surrounded by his terminator cadre.More fun for me
81025
Post by: koooaei
Bring in the scouts with cloaks. Would be pretty fluffy.
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Post by: Eldercaveman
Surely a drop pod and taking the second player turn is the best bet. That way your opponent can shoot anything he likes on the board but your drop pod will be guaranteed to come in at the start of your turn. Remember you don't lose from having no models in the table until the end of the game turn.
This formation lets us roll for reserves from turn 1 correct?
Does it state what we need to roll for them?
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Post by: Fireraven
3+ re roll-able
91787
Post by: benjak
You get a 3+ rerollable to have the Stormravens come in on the 1st turn. You can have a drop-pod on the first turn but what would you put in it?
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Post by: Desubot
Just that you can so i would assume a 3+ as normal.
But yeah i think the drop pod method would be best.
Check to see if the formation comes in. if it doesn't bring in a cheap pod with something cheap some where safe. otherwise bring in your heavy hitters with the formation.
Why not a DC Dread with blood talons for ultimate lulz against vehicles or elites.
I bet it would give quite a lot of untis a run for its monies.
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Post by: Fireraven
Desubot wrote:Just that you can so i would assume a 3+ as normal.
But yeah i think the drop pod method would be best.
Check to see if the formation comes in. if it doesn't bring in a cheap pod with something cheap some where safe. otherwise bring in your heavy hitters with the formation.
Why not a DC Dread with blood talons for ultimate lulz against vehicles or elites.
I bet it would give quite a lot of untis a run for its monies.
I'm running the dc dread in the grapples hot drop that bad boy.
91787
Post by: benjak
Desubot wrote:Just that you can so i would assume a 3+ as normal.
But yeah i think the drop pod method would be best.
Check to see if the formation comes in. if it doesn't bring in a cheap pod with something cheap some where safe. otherwise bring in your heavy hitters with the formation.
Why not a DC Dread with blood talons for ultimate lulz against vehicles or elites.
I bet it would give quite a lot of untis a run for its monies.
Good idea. I'm kinda iffy on the first turn assault from drop-pods so maybe a Furioso with frag-cannon/heavy flamer? AV13 and 2 str 6 flamer templates followed by a str 5 template can be a serious distraction.
6005
Post by: Death By Monkeys
Damocles is 75 pts. It also comes with a teleport beacon and orbital bombardment in addition to allowing +1/-1 on reserve rolls. It's a 0-1 HQ selection that doesn't take up a FOC slot.
75 pts to make sure you only fail that reserve roll 2.8% of the time - ain't bad!
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Post by: Frankenberry
Just so I can take stock of everything and sort of centralize it, can anyone list the current formations/dataslates available to BA? WD, online, and supplements? When I finally spend the money to revamp (lawl) my Blood Angels, I'd like to be able to get everything, because...y'know, options.
Also, to clarify the rerollable 3+ for reserves for the Fury formation is on turn 1?
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Archangel Strike Force Detachment is in Shield of Baal: Exterminatus.
Angel's Fury and Angel's Wrath Formation are in this weeks White Dwarf.
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Post by: HalfBlood
This formation (spearhead) is very cool, however I don't think it will be viable in Comp 1850 lists.
If you invest in x3 Ravens + x3 Tac you are at 1020 points.
This leaves you ~800 points for the rest of your army.
Lists that I have considered were
x3 Ravens + x3 Tac. 2 Tac units had 2 Melta, 1 Tac unit had 2 plasma.
x2 Tac With Heavy Flamer Drop Pod.
This leaves you at 1320. You also have room for combi weapons on the sargs.
x5 ASM 2 Melta, 1 Combi Melta, Drop Pod. This allows you to mess around with T1 Pods.
x5 DC JP 1 PW
x5 DC JP 1 PW
This allows us to abuse the DS and assault rule. Remember DC will slaughter most units. I may consider throwing in 1 more PW, or another DC model.
You are at 1725. You still need an HQ, but should be a fun, semi comp list.
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Post by: warpspider89
 Carnage43 wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:2. Death Company - Quick question: Why would you EVER take a bolt pistol with these guys? I get that the extra attack is cool, but the Bolter tossing out its Rapid Fire is better. You then charge in and mop up with Rage. 5-15 man squads means I won't have problems fielding a ton of blood-crazed maniacs with my FOUR elite slots. I am going to run a full squad of Jump DC with a Chaplain wearing the Wings of Angels. Which brings me to...
Bolters are the last nail in a potentially game losing fail chain. You want the hammer of wrath attack in combat...so you have to use your JP in the assault phase, so you cost yourself 6" in the movement phase. Which means you already have a potentially 6" longer charge. Double tapping bolters increases that charge range again...sometimes by nothing, sometimes by enough to make you miss the charge, which, unless your opponent is "slow", will result in a dead death company squad. With the new formation giving +1I, there's no reason NOT to take BP/ CCW, as you will be attacking first 99% of the time anyways, and you shouldn't need the bolters to thin out the target for melee unless you are really desperate.
I really disagree with your assessment. Yes, if you are using the bolters to shoot at the target you plan to charge, then you might ruin your charge. I completely agree that, under those conditions, bolters are not worth it. As has previously been noted by Martel732, the charge will generally be enough to wreck the enemy unit. Why do I bring that up? It means that the presence of the death company itself can be used as a movement deterrent. People will not want to themselves in a position where they will get charged. Board control like this is awesome. Where do bolters come in? Simple: they give you reach to impact the board, even with just 10 shots, on places you cannot impact with your charge.
Also, on rare occasions you may find your DC at near point-blank range with the enemy. Those moments will be ideal times to double-tap + charge. e
6005
Post by: Death By Monkeys
HalfBlood wrote:This formation (spearhead) is very cool, however I don't think it will be viable in Comp 1850 lists.
If you invest in x3 Ravens + x3 Tac you are at 1020 points....You still need an HQ, but should be a fun, semi comp list.
I ran the points on a list a little bit ago. Run the Angel's Fury detachment with the Angel's Wrath detachment (1x 7-man Vanguard Vets, 2x 7-man Assault Squads) and a Damocles Rhino - using detachments only, you don't need any HQs and the Damocles doesn't take up a FOC slot. The VV Sgt will be the Warlord. 51 infantry, 3 flyers, 1 tank that hides behind cover for the first turn. You can tool up each of the squads pretty well. In fact, I could go more bare bones and fit more bodies in pretty easily.
53816
Post by: Rezyn
Sorry if this is a dumb question, having some trouble figuring out how that formation works list-wise.
So if you take the formation with 3 ravens and 3 tac squads, is that technically a detachment? You still need an HQ, but are the 3 tac squads from the formation sufficient for your force org that requires 2 troops? or do you need 2 MORE troops in addition?
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Post by: Paradigm
You need to more troops and an HQ if you're using a CAD or BSFD alongside the Formation.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
 Rezyn wrote:Sorry if this is a dumb question, having some trouble figuring out how that formation works list-wise.
So if you take the formation with 3 ravens and 3 tac squads, is that technically a detachment? You still need an HQ, but are the 3 tac squads from the formation sufficient for your force org that requires 2 troops? or do you need 2 MORE troops in addition?
Unless you take the Detachment that allows for 16 Elites.
53816
Post by: Rezyn
OK so the formation is like a small detachment in addition to any other formation your army is using. So you cant "add to" the formation to make it 1 detachment so to speak.
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Post by: Desubot
Well a formation is a "special detachment"
and any battle forged list can have any number of them.
Im however not sure if it can be the only detachment of a battle forged list or not.
47877
Post by: Jefffar
Edit, ninja'd
63122
Post by: warpspider89
 wuestenfux wrote:Well, I remember a game 2v2 when I battled with my DoA army vs Nids and Eldar.
The SG really had a problem to shine since there were literally no Nids they were good against.
All four players agreed on this.
I can see some use for a SG against a Dev. or Havoc unit.
But otherwise. Hmm.
I find that they are best used as a counter attack unit, like banshees in the Eldar codex. Used to use them with axes to dig Mephy out of combat with 2+ armor save units. Can fill same role now only cheaper and with more killing power (more bodies). Automatically Appended Next Post: wuestenfux wrote:HandofMars wrote: wuestenfux wrote:The elite section looks quite congested:
Termies, Dreads, Cmd squad, Vanguard, Sternguard, DC.
I'd take DC in the first place.
The formation gives you an extra elite slot.
Atm, I think I'll not need a fourth elite slot.
Two times ten DC Marines is a good starting point.
I think 4 squads of 5 > 2 squads of 10. Why? If your enemy fires enough shots to kill 7 DC, then you are making them waste firepower with the 5 man squad. They can still work together to have the same effect in combat as 10 man squads. Its a good plan if you don't need all those elite spots  Automatically Appended Next Post:  Tamwulf wrote:Got the Codex. My jaw dropped when I got to Tycho. Had to read it, reread it, and try and find something elsewhere in the codex. I hope I'm just overlooking it, but...
TYCHO HAS NO CLOSE COMBAT WEAPON. None. No knife, no Deadman's hand, no chainsword, no power weapon... nadda, zip. He does have digital weapons, and a whole bunch of special rules to help him in close combat, but NO CLOSE COMBAT WEAPON.
Yes he does. He has a bolt pistol. Pistols = CCW
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Post by: HalfBlood
I feel squads of 5 DC is way too small. If you lost ~2-3 models you lose alot of killing power. 10 Models is too much though.
I run 2 units of 8 with PW and PF JP in my lists and it seems to do very well. T2 assaults usually.
The magic number will be 7-8.
Back to talking about the Spearhead formation,
I can see this getting used in larger point games. Maybe around 2000-2500.
People were talking about running the X16 Elite formation with the Spearhead formation. It can be interesting. But each unit of Terminator costs ~200 points. Which seems like too costly.
Too bad you can take DC :(
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Take Furioso Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods. They are cheaper than Terminators.
87442
Post by: HalfBlood
I am still not on board with that. I feel like that will get FaQed. to disallow units from drop pods from assaulting using this special rule.
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Post by: Desubot
Well Ether way its a good idea to get drop pods in as.
1) this allows you to go second and take a whole turn of no shooting
2) emergency units in case you fail your 2-3 + rerollables.
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Post by: Anpu42
I am liking for all of the Assault Terminators and Tactical Terminators I have.
I hope DA get this treatment.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 Anpu42 wrote:I am liking for all of the Assault Terminators and Tactical Terminators I have.
I hope DA get this treatment.
Wouldn't count on it. GW has made it their mission to ensure that DA remain bottom tier.
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Post by: HalfBlood
I agree with you on that. If I were to run the Spearhead formation. I would probably taken 1-2 Tac Pods with Heavy Flamer to be my alpha strike.
If Dreads are allowed to assault out of the drop pods using this rule, then I will probably run ~3-4 Frag Dreads in pods. It leaves about ~150 points left to spend.
10335
Post by: Razerous
HalfBlood wrote:I agree with you on that. If I were to run the Spearhead formation. I would probably taken 1-2 Tac Pods with Heavy Flamer to be my alpha strike.
If Dreads are allowed to assault out of the drop pods using this rule, then I will probably run ~3-4 Frag Dreads in pods. It leaves about ~150 points left to spend.
Surely you want DC Dreads for the attacks, one of the few Walkers that have a viable number of attacks - Frag Dreads are for shooting primarily? Assuming we are aiming for an assault-on-arrival (Oo.. AoA army! Nailed it!)
72325
Post by: soomemafia
I actually consider fielding the Angel's Wrath formation.
It gives you two important things:
1. ability to play a DoA army (sort of) with precise Deep Striking with masses.
2. an excuse to use Vanguard Veterans
5x Vanguard Veterans - 160 points. Two Melta bombs, a hidden Power Fist and a Power Weapon to the Sergeant.
10x ASM - 190 points for two Meltaguns
10x ASM - 205 points, the same with Power Sword on the Sgt.
Slightly more than 500 points (630 with Damocles command Rhino to ensure that they come when needed).
Not too much for a spearhead to your Assault.
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Post by: pantheralegionnaire
I certainly like it that they have given us so many options, allowing us to run what we want: the ability to run ASM and Vanguards with DoA equivalent rules, go heavy on the Stormravens, drop in Dreadnoughts, develop the Flesh Tearers, use our Death Company in numbers.
Lots of great choices, so I am happy!
6005
Post by: Death By Monkeys
 Paradigm wrote:You need to more troops and an HQ if you're using a CAD or BSFD alongside the Formation.
You're right - IF you're using a CAD or Allied Detachment alongside the formation, you would need more troops and an HQ. But you don't HAVE to take a CAD.
Desubot wrote:Well a formation is a "special detachment"
and any battle forged list can have any number of them.
Im however not sure if it can be the only detachment of a battle forged list or not.
You can make a Battle Forged army composed solely of Formations if you so choose.
I was wrong about the Damocles, though. While it doesn't take up a FOC slot, it still has to adhere to any restrictions detailed on the Detachment. Which, in this case, since both my Detachments are Formations that specify exactly what units need to be in them, the Damocles is restricted from being in either one and so I cannot include it in the army.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
I have to rip the Flamers off my Assault Squad and put a pair of Meltaguns on them. Might change out the Power Maul for a Sword.
87442
Post by: HalfBlood
^^ This.
Since Tac have access to Heavy Flamers, there is no reason to have flamers on your ASM when you can equip them for Vehicle hunting which is much more cost effective.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
casvalremdeikun wrote:I have to rip the Flamers off my Assault Squad and put a pair of Meltaguns on them. Might change out the Power Maul for a Sword.
I might keep the Maul for S7 Attacks.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Anpu42 wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:I have to rip the Flamers off my Assault Squad and put a pair of Meltaguns on them. Might change out the Power Maul for a Sword.
I might keep the Maul for S7 Attacks.
good point. Woo hoo! No remodeling of the Sergeant!
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Yes it is like having a pair of Auto-Cannons in your pocket, just ask TWC about it.
My Wolf Priest on a Bike has killed more Transports with his Magic Club [I used the Club from the DA Biker set to make his] than I can count.
30143
Post by: Carnage43
 warpspider89 wrote: Carnage43 wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:2. Death Company - Quick question: Why would you EVER take a bolt pistol with these guys? I get that the extra attack is cool, but the Bolter tossing out its Rapid Fire is better. You then charge in and mop up with Rage. 5-15 man squads means I won't have problems fielding a ton of blood-crazed maniacs with my FOUR elite slots. I am going to run a full squad of Jump DC with a Chaplain wearing the Wings of Angels. Which brings me to...
Bolters are the last nail in a potentially game losing fail chain. You want the hammer of wrath attack in combat...so you have to use your JP in the assault phase, so you cost yourself 6" in the movement phase. Which means you already have a potentially 6" longer charge. Double tapping bolters increases that charge range again...sometimes by nothing, sometimes by enough to make you miss the charge, which, unless your opponent is "slow", will result in a dead death company squad. With the new formation giving +1I, there's no reason NOT to take BP/ CCW, as you will be attacking first 99% of the time anyways, and you shouldn't need the bolters to thin out the target for melee unless you are really desperate.
I really disagree with your assessment. Yes, if you are using the bolters to shoot at the target you plan to charge, then you might ruin your charge. I completely agree that, under those conditions, bolters are not worth it. As has previously been noted by Martel732, the charge will generally be enough to wreck the enemy unit. Why do I bring that up? It means that the presence of the death company itself can be used as a movement deterrent. People will not want to themselves in a position where they will get charged. Board control like this is awesome. Where do bolters come in? Simple: they give you reach to impact the board, even with just 10 shots, on places you cannot impact with your charge.
Also, on rare occasions you may find your DC at near point-blank range with the enemy. Those moments will be ideal times to double-tap + charge. e
You make a good point, but the argument is specialization against versatility. I believe in making a squad better at what they are good at, rather than viable in more situations. Death Company are a melee squad, and yes, while they will typically wreck everything they come up against there ARE threats out there where the extra attacks are necessary. You can get fire support from other units, and opportunities to shoot, while nice when they happen, should ideally be minimized. Even in a perfect situation where they get 2-3 volleys off against optimal targets they will do at best, about half of what their points cost should accomplish.
There's wiggle room in their loadout, but I think BP/ CCW are the superior choice for an optimal loadout overall.
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Post by: TranSpyre
Would mephiston run better out of a Stormraven with Vanguard Vets, Sternguard Vets, or Death Company?
The VVs would have 5 hand flamers, 3 lightning claws, and 2 storm shields for tanking shooting. 5 men total.
The SVs would have 2 heavy flamers, 5 combi-flamers, and a bolt pistol. 7 men total.
The DC would have 5 hand flamers and 5 power swords. 5 men total.
Thoughts?
87442
Post by: HalfBlood
@TranSpyre
I wouldn't take any flamers on any of these squads.
DC are way stronger than VV. The comparison is on a previous page. So if anything I would prefer DC as the close combat choice.
Also I would have flamers on these squads. VV and DC are designed (in almost all cases) for assault. Flamers are good at killing light infantry, thus making your charged distance longer.
As for your question. I would have Mephiston with DC inside a Stormraven if I had to choose one of the three. Also 5 Power Swords is way overkill. You only need ~1-2 and maybe a powerfist to go vehicle hunting.
Hope this helps!!
18080
Post by: Anpu42
It looks like this will become my Core that I will build my List with.
Capitan with Paired Lighting Claws, Jump Pack
Command [Old Honor Guard] Champion with Power Lance and 3 pairs of Lighting Claws, Jump Pack
Librarian
Sternguard [Plasma for everyone]
Dread of some sort
2-4 Tactical Squads with the Sargent having Comb-Flamer/Lighting Claw or Hand Flamer/PS, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pods.
2 Assault Squads, one with Plasma Pistol and one with Melta
87702
Post by: TranSpyre
HalfBlood wrote:@TranSpyre
I wouldn't take any flamers on any of these squads.
DC are way stronger than VV. The comparison is on a previous page. So if anything I would prefer DC as the close combat choice.
Also I would have flamers on these squads. VV and DC are designed (in almost all cases) for assault. Flamers are good at killing light infantry, thus making your charged distance longer.
As for your question. I would have Mephiston with DC inside a Stormraven if I had to choose one of the three. Also 5 Power Swords is way overkill. You only need ~1-2 and maybe a powerfist to go vehicle hunting.
Hope this helps!!
Thanks for the advice. Since I already have a stabby unit with Dante and a bunch of Sanguinary Guards, I think I'd rather just scrap the unit entirely for either a Caestus to carry the unit or a Fire Raptor for general air support. Thanks to the Caestus' Misericorde special rule, it can carry any 10 models, ignoring the bulky USR. I figure I'd throw in Dante, 7 Sang Guards, a Sang Priest, and a ML2 Libby. Seems like Mephiston lost some of his edge, anyways.
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Post by: Martel732
Mephiston is actually much more useful now. Especially as psychic defense.
10335
Post by: Razerous
So I wanna have some fun with the new BA codex...
A core of Tiggy, Assault Cents, Grav Cents, Scouts.
3 Pods (2 Empty, 1 Melta ASM), Librarian (Scrolls & Staff seems fun?), Sicaran with the Sarosh legacy (and bolters!).
I'm also considering including something like a DC Dread that could go in an empty drop pod, if I fancy deploying the Grav Cents on Foot.
Basically, what else could fit into this 1500pt army? Assuming I go for two scout squads for the BA detachment, I have ~250pts left, It can also be a normal CAD or Angry Marine Detachment (S5 / I5).
Help?
16978
Post by: exsanguis
What does everyone think of this as a 1000 pt list for a game on Boxing Day? Keeping it semi-fluffy and using the BSF:
Captain - The Angels Wings, Valor's Edge, Meltabombs, Artificer Armour (160)
DC x10 - JP, 2x Power Fists (280)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Predator - TLLC, LC Sponsons (140)
Captain and DC will either start on the board in cover, or DS in and assault something meaty. I think they're a particularly hard hitting unit for this points level. The Tac's are using my preferred load out for mid-field objective sitting, and the Pred is there to hopefully neutralise any MC's or heavy armour.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Anpu42 wrote:
Yes it is like having a pair of Auto-Cannons in your pocket, just ask TWC about it.
My Wolf Priest on a Bike has killed more Transports with his Magic Club [I used the Club from the DA Biker set to make his] than I can count.
My Assault Sergeant has his from the Dark Angel's Upgrade Sprue. Seems odd that only DA are modeled with Power Mauls. I still might strip off some of the plain marine parts and put on some of the Blood Angels stuff I have leftover from my Tactical Squad and Death Company.
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Post by: warpspider89
... while they will typically wreck everything they come up against there ARE threats out there where the extra attacks are necessary. You can get fire support from other units, and opportunities to shoot, while nice when they happen, should ideally be minimized.
Most of the time its better not to kill everything on the charge. Dodge the enemy shooting phase in combat, then finish the job and bust out for your turn. I think that situation is more likely to come up, which is why I think the reduction is fine for the ability to deal more damage earlier on. I agree sometimes you might need 1-15 more S5 I5 WS 5 attacks (ideally). But most of the time, you can have things in your army that can deal with targets like that. Plasma or melta tote-ing assault marines for example.
Even in a perfect situation where they get 2-3 volleys off against optimal targets they will do at best, about half of what their points cost should accomplish.
Its really hard to talk about movement on the forum, but those 2-3 volley's are happening at the start of the game as they move towards their enemies. The damage from any volleys would be added to damage in those 3 rounds of combat.
There's wiggle room in their loadout, but I think BP/CCW are the superior choice for an optimal loadout overall.
These death company will not be operating on their own. Everything has to be able to work together and adjust each match. I think a bolter makes them a little better at that.
87702
Post by: TranSpyre
If I'm taking Sanguinary Guard with Dante, how should I equip them? I know I should grab a banner and at least 1 power fist, but what else? And how many Guards should I take?
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Post by: warpspider89
The Sanguinor gives a 12 inch bubble of fearless to all units from the Imperium. I think there might be something there with him as HQ when BA are the allied detachment/formation to an IG primary.
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Post by: Rezyn
So I like the concept of fragioso's, especially podding in with a heavy flamer upgrade. I have played blood angels for a few years(with a break in there waiting for the new dex) but never run a furioso with a frag cannon. My main curiosity with this combo is what to do with them after they pod in and hopefully template something into oblivion.
I mean, a dreadnought walking around 6 inches with only template weapons isnt exactly something to be feared. I suppose if you can get them into combat with another vehicle that fist can do some carnage, but are most people that run them able to shoot with those templates more than once?
They seem easy to avoid after their drop.
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
Rezyn wrote:So I like the concept of fragioso's, especially podding in with a heavy flamer upgrade. I have played blood angels for a few years(with a break in there waiting for the new dex) but never run a furioso with a frag cannon. My main curiosity with this combo is what to do with them after they pod in and hopefully template something into oblivion.
I mean, a dreadnought walking around 6 inches with only template weapons isnt exactly something to be feared. I suppose if you can get them into combat with another vehicle that fist can do some carnage, but are most people that run them able to shoot with those templates more than once?
They seem easy to avoid after their drop.
Magna Grapple is an auto-take now, as it's a free swap from the smoke launcher. That grants MtC, which helps when charging quite a bit and gives you a re-roll when going after tanks.
The Fragioso's primary target upon drop is a squishy support unit or even MEQ since the Frag Cannon has rending. However when choosing this target place the Furioso so that the enemy will have to either move away from objectives, or towards your other units to avoid it. Then at that point even if he's not catching units in assault, he's "herding" the enemy into the guns and blades of the rest of your forces.
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Post by: DO IT TO IT
 TranSpyre wrote:If I'm taking Sanguinary Guard with Dante, how should I equip them? I know I should grab a banner and at least 1 power fist, but what else? And how many Guards should I take?
I think the general consensus is the encarmine swords are better than the axes, since they can at least take advantage of the +1i, if you're using that detachment. I wouldn't pay any points for different guns at all. Definitely grab the banner and the power fist could be good but I wouldn't say it's 100% necessary if Dante is also in the unit. In an 1850 list I was brainstorming, I was thinking I'd take 5 Sanguinary Guard with the banner, swords, angelus boltguns, attached Dante, and an attached Sanguinary Priest with a jump pack and nothing else.
73959
Post by: niv-mizzet
Played a semi-deathstar of Dante, 6sword and 3axe SG, and a jump priest (naked gear,) in the last two games. Both games the unit was a-ok at the end and running around to objectives. The second game they Multi assaulted and went on a murder spree of a venomthrope, a zoanthrope, 20 termagants, then 2 warriors, and another 15 termagants, then left Dante by an objective while they murdered another dozen termagants, left the priest on that objective and went on to murder 10 hormagaunts and claim the objective they were on on turn 6. The unit by itself ended up split to score 9 VP, and basically walked through an entire army.
This is partially because the tyranid player is kinda...meh. Was still fun though.
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Post by: TranSpyre
I think I'm looking at a 8 man with 5 swords, 2 axes, and a power fist, preferably coming out of a Caestus. they'd be joined by Dante and a priest.
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Post by: Bartali
Carnage43 wrote:
People keep saying this....but I'm not seeing it.
Death Company. Okay, best in slot, no argument from me. Jump packs, a couple fists and/or axes, and they will bury pretty much anything in melee short of a Knight or top level MC.
Sang Guard. Suck...still. Not enough attacks to deal with hordes, not strong enough to deal with MCs, and not amazing against vehicles. Not worth using.
"Normal" Dreads. Just....no. They've been bad since 6th dropped, and no one uses them in any marine army.
Death Company/melee furioso Dreads. Needs a pod. Experience has proven they still have trouble making it to melee. Over kill against infantry, and the opponent would have to be awful to let it charge a decent MC or character. IMO, nearly impossible to use optimally against an opponent that is half decent.
Template dread. Get a pod, Frag cannon/heavy flamer. Costs what? 175? If you want to do template spam you might as well use tactical squads, as you are forced to take them anyways and can filled your cursed compulsory troop slots 
Vanguard? Are these even elite? Inferior to DC in every way at any rate.
Sternguard. The chapter tactic does nothing for them, and if they've been brought into line with vanilla sterns, their combi-weapons are over priced now. I wouldn't take them in a vanilla list other then salamanders for MC melta fire, so I'm sure as hell not taking them here.
Edit: I forgot terminator! They are literally that bad. Tacticals suck balls, and melee termies are impossible to deploy properly.
Edit2; Forgot command squads...damnit. I have to see the points here, but they are inferior in melee to DC, and I feel there are probably better options for deploying special weapons elsewhere. bikes/attack bikes probably. It's also borderline insulting they are an elites choice instead of slotless HQ unlock.
I might field a couple of dreads occasionally ....MAYBE, but not every time.
Death Company is a no brainer, maybe 2 squads of 6 or 7 actually.
So 2, maybe 3 once in a while Elite slots. Not feeling crowded personally.
I'm with Carnage. DC are the standouts in the Elite slot, hard to see beyond them.
In general it's poor codex with little thought put into it. I fill up my elite slots with DC, fill up my Fast slots with Bikers or ASM and then struggle to spend the rest of my points on anything worthwhile. Baal strike force detachment is night on mandatory, and oh does it irk to still have two compulsory troops slots in that to sell the new Tactical box.
First pass, 1499pts
Astorath
10x DC w/ 2xPF, JPs
5x DC, w/ JPs
5x DC, w/ JPs
5x DC, w/ JPs
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
3x Bikers w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikers w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikers w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
1x Stormraven w/ Las, Melta
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Post by: Martel732
It' uninspiring, I'll agree.
30143
Post by: Carnage43
archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Storm Raven is basically mandatory for anti-air anyways, and 22 point per model power weapon vanguard are almost certainly better than DC. Sternguard with free combi-weapons is gravy.
860 points gets you 30 guys, 20 with power weapons and jump packs and 10 with combi-weapons, and a Storm Raven. Blood Angels codex formation (Strike force?) for Jump Sang priest and Dante, 2x5 scouts, toss in some grav bikers.....do we have a decent list?
Discussion; New mandatory competitive formation? Death Company obsolete? Pure power armor/flyer list.....interests me.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Carnage43 wrote:archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Storm Raven is basically mandatory for anti-air anyways, and 22 point per model power weapon vanguard are almost certainly better than DC. Sternguard with free combi-weapons is gravy.
860 points gets you 30 guys, 20 with power weapons and jump packs and 10 with combi-weapons, and a Storm Raven. Blood Angels codex formation (Strike force?) for Jump Sang priest and Dante, 2x5 scouts, toss in some grav bikers.....do we have a decent list?
Discussion; New mandatory competitive formation? Death Company obsolete? Pure power armor/flyer list.....interests me.
You would need an Elites unit with the Baal Strike Force Detachment for it to be legal, but otherwise you are golden.
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Post by: MadMaverick76
My review of some of the codex has lead me to believe the days of the BA ASM w/ JP are numbered? Have BA tactical squads made a comeback? Or are they just there to secure and hold objectives?
Are BA back to focusing on the heavy elites?
I still have a major affinity for an all JP army, it is what comes to mind with BA. DC still seem like a point sink to me though.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 MadMaverick76 wrote:My review of some of the codex has lead me to believe the days of the BA ASM w/ JP are numbered? Have BA tactical squads made a comeback? Or are they just there to secure and hold objectives?
Are BA back to focusing on the heavy elites?
I still have a major affinity for an all JP army, it is what comes to mind with BA. DC still seem like a point sink to me though.
There is a formation that is 1x VV, 2x ASM. All must have JP. ASM with JP are just fine.
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Post by: TranSpyre
What do you guys think is the best place for Libbies? I changed my list to all DC in the elite slot, and I think Libbies would be better for my list than priests, since DC already has FNP.
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Post by: BakAG
I believe you guys should watch the review the Stomping Grounds guys did for the codex and the battle reports and maybe you will change your opinion on sang guard.
I did...
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Post by: Kavish
Sanguinary guard + Dante + jump pack Librarian = uber unit of death.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 Kavish wrote:Sanguinary guard + Dante + jump pack Librarian = uber unit of death.
Add in a Sanguinary Priest to make them harder to kill.
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Post by: kryczek
655pts and sitting right in front of me.
Tooled up of course.
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Post by: Desubot
Demolisher and stuff says hi
Im glad i started taking those
also will get punked by grav cents pretty quickly.
well unless invisibility goes off. (they got telepathy right?)
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
On it's own? Yes.
With the new formations and detachments? It's a game changer.
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Post by: benjak
Until GW decides to FAQ it
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Post by: TranSpyre
Is a divination Libby with a sterguard squad a good idea? I'm looking at Meltas and combi-meltas in a drop pod.
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Post by: pantheralegionnaire
exsanguis wrote:What does everyone think of this as a 1000 pt list for a game on Boxing Day? Keeping it semi-fluffy and using the BSF:
Captain - The Angels Wings, Valor's Edge, Meltabombs, Artificer Armour (160)
DC x10 - JP, 2x Power Fists (280)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Predator - TLLC, LC Sponsons (140)
Captain and DC will either start on the board in cover, or DS in and assault something meaty. I think they're a particularly hard hitting unit for this points level. The Tac's are using my preferred load out for mid-field objective sitting, and the Pred is there to hopefully neutralise any MC's or heavy armour.
Hey, just to get you an answer: it's not going to scare anyone, but it's a good balanced Adeptus Astartes list (except for the Death Company) that should allow you to deal with most issues at 1000 points. I might consider swapping the Captain out for a Librarian or even a jump-pack equipped Sanguinary Priest, though.
Half of your points (almost) are wrapped up in the full Tactical Squads too--if you ran a scout squad of 5, you might be able to put something else into the list.
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Post by: ultimentra
Hey guys I just recently picked up half of Deathstorm, and I am really liking the idea of adding a BA ally detachment to my AM force. Thoughts?
Here is what I am thinking-
HQ- Tank Commander in an Exterminator with LC/MM
Exterminator buddy with same loadout-
This is basically a cheap way to get Lascannons and Multi-Meltas on an AV14 platform while still having a main gun that can hit light armor. Swiss army knife tanks.
Core of 3 Chimeras with Plasma veterans
Vendetta
Manticore (because I don't have wyverns and they are actually useful for AT)
For the BA ally detachment-
A Chaplain w/ Jump pack, 7 Death Company all with JP, 1 with a PF.
5 Tac Marines in a pod, melta/combimelta or Flamers loadout.
This comes out to roughly 1850, and can be expanded on for 2k.
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Post by: exsanguis
 pantheralegionnaire wrote:exsanguis wrote:What does everyone think of this as a 1000 pt list for a game on Boxing Day? Keeping it semi-fluffy and using the BSF:
Captain - The Angels Wings, Valor's Edge, Meltabombs, Artificer Armour (160)
DC x10 - JP, 2x Power Fists (280)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Predator - TLLC, LC Sponsons (140)
Captain and DC will either start on the board in cover, or DS in and assault something meaty. I think they're a particularly hard hitting unit for this points level. The Tac's are using my preferred load out for mid-field objective sitting, and the Pred is there to hopefully neutralise any MC's or heavy armour.
Hey, just to get you an answer: it's not going to scare anyone, but it's a good balanced Adeptus Astartes list (except for the Death Company) that should allow you to deal with most issues at 1000 points. I might consider swapping the Captain out for a Librarian or even a jump-pack equipped Sanguinary Priest, though.
Half of your points (almost) are wrapped up in the full Tactical Squads too--if you ran a scout squad of 5, you might be able to put something else into the list.
Changed it around a bit:
Chaplain - Angels Wings, Meltabombs
DC x10 - 2x Power Fists, JP
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, PG, MM
Tac Squad x5 - LC
Predator - TLLC, LC Sponsons
Leaves me 160 points. I feel a bit light on bodies, but I did contemplate the idea of bring in a podding Fragioso.
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Post by: HalfBlood
casvalremdeikun wrote: Carnage43 wrote:archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Storm Raven is basically mandatory for anti-air anyways, and 22 point per model power weapon vanguard are almost certainly better than DC. Sternguard with free combi-weapons is gravy.
860 points gets you 30 guys, 20 with power weapons and jump packs and 10 with combi-weapons, and a Storm Raven. Blood Angels codex formation (Strike force?) for Jump Sang priest and Dante, 2x5 scouts, toss in some grav bikers.....do we have a decent list?
Discussion; New mandatory competitive formation? Death Company obsolete? Pure power armor/flyer list.....interests me.
You would need an Elites unit with the Baal Strike Force Detachment for it to be legal, but otherwise you are golden.
Easily the go to list. I am actually making my version of the archangel sanguinary wing right now.
I am thinking 7 Power Swords per unit, 2 Power Axes, and then 1 Power Fist. Each on the VV units.
For the Sternguard I am thinking, 7 Combi Plasma and 3 Combi Melta.
Thoughts?
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Post by: pantheralegionnaire
@exsanguis, I have always found the Fragioso very useful. It depends on who you're playing but if you can get the Heavy Flamer upgrade (in terms of points cost) you have three templates. I have wrecked Eldar Walkers and hordes with this many times. At worst it's a shooting magnet, which might let you get your DC somewhere where they can do some damage.
Sanguinary Guard are looking very good these days, as discussed elsewhere on this thread, but not in a 1000 point game.
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Post by: HalfBlood
Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
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Post by: Carnage43
HalfBlood wrote:Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
I don't see why not. It's my plan ATM.
I'm thinking;
archangles sanguine wing;
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Sternguard, 5 combi-plasma, 5 combi melta? Not sure of my split yet
200 Storm Raven
220 Dante
152, 2 Sang priest, Jump pack, bolt pistol, hang with the vanguard ideally, might splurge on power weapons here, but I doubt it.
110 - 140 2x5 scouts or tacticals
474 3x3 man bike squad, 2 grav guns, 1 combi grav, MM attack bike. Might spend for a fourth bike to soak wounds...but meh.
That's pretty much right on 1850. If I go with scouts then I can spend a little more on the sang priests.
I've seen worse lists I suppose.
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Post by: Crazyterran
Are you allowed to take a dedicated transport for the sternguard? Takes away the alpha strike potential of they have to ride the stormraven.
All these formations make it pretty pointless to run codex marines unless you are running a bike list or cent star. Free power weapons would make vvs worth their points in any codex, but at the moment only bas are getting it. Don't even get me started on the free combi weapons on sternguard, even if it's only in this formation.
Maybe when there's a C:SM vs CSM or something book. :p
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Post by: benjak
 Crazyterran wrote:Are you allowed to take a dedicated transport for the sternguard? Takes away the alpha strike potential of they have to ride the stormraven.
All these formations make it pretty pointless to run codex marines unless you are running a bike list or cent star. Free power weapons would make vvs worth their points in any codex, but at the moment only bas are getting it. Don't even get me started on the free combi weapons on sternguard, even if it's only in this formation.
Maybe when there's a C: SM vs CSM or something book. :p
Unfortunately, the formation rules require the sternguard to deploy in the storm raven.
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Post by: akwing00
Carnage43 wrote:HalfBlood wrote:Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
I don't see why not. It's my plan ATM.
I'm thinking;
archangles sanguine wing;
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Sternguard, 5 combi-plasma, 5 combi melta? Not sure of my split yet
200 Storm Raven
220 Dante
152, 2 Sang priest, Jump pack, bolt pistol, hang with the vanguard ideally, might splurge on power weapons here, but I doubt it.
110 - 140 2x5 scouts or tacticals
474 3x3 man bike squad, 2 grav guns, 1 combi grav, MM attack bike. Might spend for a fourth bike to soak wounds...but meh.
That's pretty much right on 1850. If I go with scouts then I can spend a little more on the sang priests.
I've seen worse lists I suppose.
I like the Vanguard split, although I'm just wondering if lighting claws would be any good in certain situations over power weapons?
EDIT-
I just saw you get one lightning claw for free, not a pair so yeah I like what you've done with the VV
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Post by: HalfBlood
Carnage43 wrote:HalfBlood wrote:Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
I don't see why not. It's my plan ATM.
I'm thinking;
archangles sanguine wing;
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Sternguard, 5 combi-plasma, 5 combi melta? Not sure of my split yet
200 Storm Raven
220 Dante
152, 2 Sang priest, Jump pack, bolt pistol, hang with the vanguard ideally, might splurge on power weapons here, but I doubt it.
110 - 140 2x5 scouts or tacticals
474 3x3 man bike squad, 2 grav guns, 1 combi grav, MM attack bike. Might spend for a fourth bike to soak wounds...but meh.
That's pretty much right on 1850. If I go with scouts then I can spend a little more on the sang priests.
I've seen worse lists I suppose.
Well since we can split Vangaurd. I think your split is great. 3/2. You are looking at 12 Power Sword attacks on the charge. With 8 Power Axe attacks.
Here is another question. Since the Stormraven has a troop capacity of 12. Can we throw an HQ in with the sternguard. The reason I ask this is because the Stormraven / sternguard would be part of a formation, while the model would most likely be an HQ. Just a thought.
What's your thoughts on Corbulo in with the Stormraven. This would give a 6" I and WS bubble for your vanguard. Just a thought.
I definitely agree with running Dante. It always seems like he is a must nowadays because of his absurd cc potential.
My last question does the formation come on turn 1? Or is it reserves?
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Post by: akwing00
would it ever be worth it to give the VV some storm shields now?
87442
Post by: HalfBlood
 akwing00 wrote:would it ever be worth it to give the VV some storm shields now?
I was considering this. Definitely going to have to play test it.
I definitely like the idea of 2-3 grav bike squads though.
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Post by: Bartali
Carnage43 wrote:HalfBlood wrote:Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
I don't see why not. It's my plan ATM.
I'm thinking;
archangles sanguine wing;
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Sternguard, 5 combi-plasma, 5 combi melta? Not sure of my split yet
200 Storm Raven
220 Dante
152, 2 Sang priest, Jump pack, bolt pistol, hang with the vanguard ideally, might splurge on power weapons here, but I doubt it.
110 - 140 2x5 scouts or tacticals
474 3x3 man bike squad, 2 grav guns, 1 combi grav, MM attack bike. Might spend for a fourth bike to soak wounds...but meh.
That's pretty much right on 1850. If I go with scouts then I can spend a little more on the sang priests.
I've seen worse lists I suppose.
I'd still probably want the +1I from the Baal detachment over free power weapons. The key to any BA assault unit for me is "Can I punch out Thunderwolves with Storm Shields ?" DC at I5 can, VV with Power Weapons at I4 can't
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Post by: each-uisge
some days ago i used this list
- 8x DC with JP (1x PF, 2x PW)
- 8x DC with JP (1x PF, 2x PW)
- 10x SG (1x PF, 1x Plasma Pistol)
- Sanguinary Priest with JP (on SG)
- 6x Bike (2x Grav-gun plus 1x Combi-grav) + MM Attack Bike
- 5x ASM w Melta on pod
- 5x ASM w Melta on pod
- Libby with Staff of Gallian (in pod with ASM)
- 10x Tac w Flamer/HF in pod
(technically, was squadded half in pod half holding ground on objective)
- 5x Sniper Scout
i faced a WS Eldar w/ Wraithknight; we played only for 1,5 turn 'cause was too late ;_;
however, it worked fine. Gravgun vs MC is a must. Melta was working fine but holo-field and night combat saved them from several shot. Scouts died 'cause of a tactical error (too close to wraithknight and they get smashed).
I felt like SG would need one more PF (and maybe one more high strenght ranged weapon)
how could i tune it?
i was thinking about removing pod and putting squads on rhino, to avoid deep strike while playing against interceptors (ie vs tau), and/or removing 1 DC from each squad to recover some points
also, Bike is good for marines, dunno how much is good for BA...
it's for 1750 game
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Post by: Coyote81
I think the BA Bikers can be pretty amazing, although I see exactly why our command squad doesn't get bikes, bikers with extra attack at WS5 I5 S5 would be amazing, I already think they are pretty damned good. I could see people teaming them up with White Scars characters for Hit and Run.
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Post by: Fireraven
each-uisge wrote:some days ago i used this list
- 8x DC with JP (1x PF, 2x PW)
- 8x DC with JP (1x PF, 2x PW)
- 10x SG (1x PF, 1x Plasma Pistol)
- Sanguinary Priest with JP (on SG)
- 6x Bike (2x Grav-gun plus 1x Combi-grav) + MM Attack Bike
- 5x ASM w Melta on pod
- 5x ASM w Melta on pod
- Libby with Staff of Gallian (in pod with ASM)
- 10x Tac w Flamer/ HF in pod
(technically, was squadded half in pod half holding ground on objective)
- 5x Sniper Scout
i faced a WS Eldar w/ Wraithknight; we played only for 1,5 turn 'cause was too late ;_;
however, it worked fine. Gravgun vs MC is a must. Melta was working fine but holo-field and night combat saved them from several shot. Scouts died 'cause of a tactical error (too close to wraithknight and they get smashed).
I felt like SG would need one more PF (and maybe one more high strenght ranged weapon)
how could i tune it?
i was thinking about removing pod and putting squads on rhino, to avoid deep strike while playing against interceptors (ie vs tau), and/or removing 1 DC from each squad to recover some points
also, Bike is good for marines, dunno how much is good for BA...
it's for 1750 game
Use Angel's Wings relic Jump pack on Priest instead of normal Jump Pack stops the interception expt by snap shot. for the little points cost it saves your best squad.
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Post by: BakAG
Desubot wrote:Demolisher and stuff says hi
Im glad i started taking those
also will get punked by grav cents pretty quickly.
well unless invisibility goes off. (they got telepathy right?)
Well the list used also has 5 drop pod assault marines with 3 meltas and 2 10 tacticals w melta combi melta.
If your demolisher survives this you might have a chance... but i doubt it. In one of the 2 battle reports the one vs eldar
even 5 wavesherpents crumbled. Anyway that is their fb page: https://www.facebook.com/TeamSGVideos?pnref=lhc
and you can find the review they did and the battle reports they did for the BA on the past broadcast on their twich channel: http://www.twitch.tv/sgvideo.
Ps Mr Jesse Newton said he already won a tournament with that list so...
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
I am wondering which Dreadnought I should build my Deathstorm Dread as. If I build it as the Death Company Dreadnought, it gives me the ability to run it as Cassor the Damned, and use it as a Troops, either to meet the Troops requirement, or to field a Dread outside the crowded Elites slot. DC Dreads are also a little cheaper, even when equipped with Blood Talons. But the Furioso comes with a better weapon skill, better armor, and the ability to take a Frag Cannon. Which should I take?
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Post by: Martel732
I don't think elites are crowded at all with BA. The frag cannon is a fantastic weapon that I can never turn down.
77846
Post by: Poly Ranger
Hang on a sec... VV get free power weapons and sternguard get free combis with the archangel force??? Where are the rules for this detachment? I gotta be reading this thread wrong...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I know its been said on some previous page, but could somebody tell me again where each of these detachments are found please? I really cba to look through 14pages again for it... cheers.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Poly Ranger wrote:Hang on a sec... VV get free power weapons and sternguard get free combis with the archangel force??? Where are the rules for this detachment? I gotta be reading this thread wrong...
Someone posted spoilers for Exterminatus. The big drawback is that you need to field ten man squads of 2xVV and 1xSV. The SV have to be embarked on a Stormraven too, so this formation isn't going to come cheap.
77846
Post by: Poly Ranger
casvalremdeikun wrote:Poly Ranger wrote:Hang on a sec... VV get free power weapons and sternguard get free combis with the archangel force??? Where are the rules for this detachment? I gotta be reading this thread wrong...
Someone posted spoilers for Exterminatus. The big drawback is that you need to field ten man squads of 2xVV and 1xSV. The SV have to be embarked on a Stormraven too, so this formation isn't going to come cheap.
Still pretty damn strong for its points! Wow! What detachments come in what books/ WDs? Its annoying that they are not all in one place!
61618
Post by: Desubot
BakAG wrote: Desubot wrote:Demolisher and stuff says hi
Im glad i started taking those
also will get punked by grav cents pretty quickly.
well unless invisibility goes off. (they got telepathy right?)
Well the list used also has 5 drop pod assault marines with 3 meltas and 2 10 tacticals w melta combi melta.
If your demolisher survives this you might have a chance... but i doubt it. In one of the 2 battle reports the one vs eldar
even 5 wavesherpents crumbled. Anyway that is their fb page: https://www.facebook.com/TeamSGVideos?pnref=lhc
and you can find the review they did and the battle reports they did for the BA on the past broadcast on their twich channel: http://www.twitch.tv/sgvideo.
Ps Mr Jesse Newton said he already won a tournament with that list so...
Im also a follower of not running singletons unless its too excessive.
2+ Vindicators has always been a staple. at medium points range.
87442
Post by: HalfBlood
Bartali wrote:
I'd still probably want the +1I from the Baal detachment over free power weapons. The key to any BA assault unit for me is "Can I punch out Thunderwolves with Storm Shields ?" DC at I5 can, VV with Power Weapons at I4 can't
The thing is, Archangel Sanguinary Wing detachment gives you Free 400 points. You get 20 Free power weapons = 300 free points + 100 free points in combi weapons for your sternguard.
I would never throw a vanguard unit into a unit that has stormshields. Why waste all the power weapons on a unit that has a 3+, 3++ when you can shoot them and have the same outcome?
The +1 I will definitely be missed, but I would rather have 400 extra army points.
15582
Post by: blaktoof
after reviewing the contents of deathstorm I noticed in the rulebook that:
the HQ is not a formation but an HQ selection with faction blood angels.
the Dred is a troop that is not a formation, but a troop selection with faction blood angels.
the DC are not a formation, but a troop selection with the faction blood angels.
in essence each is a dataslate like cypher/bel'akor etc and not a formation detachment.
as such they can fill any slot of a formation detachment that they meet the requirements for.
so BA could have DC and a dred as their 2 cumposlory troops in a CAD for example if they use that dred, and those DC.
might already have been stated in this thread, but that's pretty awesome.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Are the death masks for Sanguinary Guard really worth it? I don't particularly care for their appearance and they don't seem all that useful, though they are dirt cheap.
73959
Post by: niv-mizzet
Do you ever play against orks or cc dark eldar? That's about the only time they're both functional AND helpful.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
niv-mizzet wrote:Do you ever play against orks or cc dark eldar? That's about the only time they're both functional AND helpful.
I play against Orks occasionally, but not often. No one I know runs DE. I decided to go with the regular helmets because I like their appearance better.
20671
Post by: Bartali
BakAG wrote: Desubot wrote:Demolisher and stuff says hi
Im glad i started taking those
also will get punked by grav cents pretty quickly.
well unless invisibility goes off. (they got telepathy right?)
Well the list used also has 5 drop pod assault marines with 3 meltas and 2 10 tacticals w melta combi melta.
If your demolisher survives this you might have a chance... but i doubt it. In one of the 2 battle reports the one vs eldar
even 5 wavesherpents crumbled. Anyway that is their fb page: https://www.facebook.com/TeamSGVideos?pnref=lhc
and you can find the review they did and the battle reports they did for the BA on the past broadcast on their twich channel: http://www.twitch.tv/sgvideo.
Ps Mr Jesse Newton said he already won a tournament with that list so...
40K is so fragmented now that one persons touirnament win doesn't really mean anything. Points level, missions used, comp and meta massively change how effective a list can be.
i mostly play Maelstrom missions (where Wave Serpents and Knights are non-existant) for instance, and would much rather have jumpers and bikes over drop pods
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Post by: wuestenfux
Bartali wrote:BakAG wrote: Desubot wrote:Demolisher and stuff says hi
Im glad i started taking those
also will get punked by grav cents pretty quickly.
well unless invisibility goes off. (they got telepathy right?)
Well the list used also has 5 drop pod assault marines with 3 meltas and 2 10 tacticals w melta combi melta.
If your demolisher survives this you might have a chance... but i doubt it. In one of the 2 battle reports the one vs eldar
even 5 wavesherpents crumbled. Anyway that is their fb page: https://www.facebook.com/TeamSGVideos?pnref=lhc
and you can find the review they did and the battle reports they did for the BA on the past broadcast on their twich channel: http://www.twitch.tv/sgvideo.
Ps Mr Jesse Newton said he already won a tournament with that list so...
40K is so fragmented now that one persons touirnament win doesn't really mean anything. Points level, missions used, comp and meta massively change how effective a list can be.
i mostly play Maelstrom missions (where Wave Serpents and Knights are non-existant) for instance, and would much rather have jumpers and bikes over drop pods
Absolutely true.
An army good in one scenario might fail in another, since the environment plays a major role now.
Bound, unbound, multiple CADs, super heavies allowed or not, point level, allies yes or no, missions.
There are so many parameters out there.
Comments like "I played this army against Nids and the Nids player is meh" are not very helpful.
32940
Post by: Araenion
Why not have both? Psychological effect of something very dangerous dropping in the enemy deployment zone cannot be overstated. I'd have a very fast, durable and punchy jump infrantry and up to 3 pods as support for that.
80136
Post by: BakAG
wuestenfux wrote:Bartali wrote:BakAG wrote: Desubot wrote:Demolisher and stuff says hi
Im glad i started taking those
also will get punked by grav cents pretty quickly.
well unless invisibility goes off. (they got telepathy right?)
Well the list used also has 5 drop pod assault marines with 3 meltas and 2 10 tacticals w melta combi melta.
If your demolisher survives this you might have a chance... but i doubt it. In one of the 2 battle reports the one vs eldar
even 5 wavesherpents crumbled. Anyway that is their fb page: https://www.facebook.com/TeamSGVideos?pnref=lhc
and you can find the review they did and the battle reports they did for the BA on the past broadcast on their twich channel: http://www.twitch.tv/sgvideo.
Ps Mr Jesse Newton said he already won a tournament with that list so...
40K is so fragmented now that one persons touirnament win doesn't really mean anything. Points level, missions used, comp and meta massively change how effective a list can be.
i mostly play Maelstrom missions (where Wave Serpents and Knights are non-existant) for instance, and would much rather have jumpers and bikes over drop pods
Absolutely true.
An army good in one scenario might fail in another, since the environment plays a major role now.
Bound, unbound, multiple CADs, super heavies allowed or not, point level, allies yes or no, missions.
There are so many parameters out there.
Comments like "I played this army against Nids and the Nids player is meh" are not very helpful.
Agreed. That is the reason i also posted the links to their VODs so anyone interested could watch the full review. The thing is, those guys are competitive players and their opinion
has more weight than mine, so there is that. Long story sort they have great content for competitive 40k and are fun to watch and learn, since they are people that know what they talk
about, and not some random guy on the net.
5462
Post by: adamsouza
That's an awful lot of Melta, and not a single Death Company.
30143
Post by: Carnage43
Double paying the troop tax, worthless captain.
Podded ASM aren't amazing in Maelstrom IMO, as it leaves you stranded. You either drop the pods on the objectives and leave yourself spread out, or concentrate them on the enemy and leave yourself without much mobility.
It's an alpha strike army with all the melta, and a mini-death star with Dante + sang guard + sang priest.
Unless you can cripple the enemy with the opening melta volley he will be free to pick apart the sang guard, and then this list is just done.
11860
Post by: Martel732
I agree, I don't much care for this list.
80136
Post by: BakAG
He said that even though he didnt believe it at first the SG was the mvp of his list, moping anything left by the pod alpha strike.
Death co he would use only if he was really sort of points instead of SG.
Also Martel you always say that marines crumble before serpents and that is your main problem... this list destroyed a serpent spam list handled by another member of the team...
and suddenly you dont care? I would expect a little more interest from you... just saying...
11860
Post by: Martel732
Because its not flexible. I would do better for use if I tailored my list to fight WS. That's not an option. I don't know they are coming ahead of time. This list is gak against Tyranids.
30143
Post by: Carnage43
Martel732 wrote:Because its not flexible. I would do better for use if I tailored my list to fight WS. That's not an option. I don't know they are coming ahead of time. This list is gak against Tyranids.
It's 19 deep striking melta weapons against a list that replies entirely on 5-6 medium vehicles. This is literally the perfect counter to it, so I'm with Martel here.
This isn't "Blood Angels dominate WS spam!" this is "Paper beats rock!".
Anyone can beat WS spam if they take a perfect counter list for it. The real trick is beating WS spam without tailoring your list....and still being able to beat 4 knights/200 orks/biker grav spam...etc.
11860
Post by: Martel732
BA don't dominate anything without list tailoring. That hasn't changed, unfortunately.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
How viable is the Angel 's Wrath formation? It seems like a good way to get a bunch of Assault Squads (with meltaguns) on the board to hunt vehicles . How would the VV best be kitted out cheaply and effectively? I am thinking just LCx2 on the Sergeant.
81617
Post by: each-uisge
Fireraven wrote:Use Angel's Wings relic Jump pack on Priest instead of normal Jump Pack stops the interception expt by snap shot. for the little points cost it saves your best squad.
Is'nt Angel's Wing only useful for a single unit?
i don't plan to deep strike JP SG nor DC: they are way more effective running (or jumping )across the field than hoping to bring them at turn 2 (too many time i ended to be tabled because half of my army was still in reserve -_- )
i only deep strike pod (or at least stormraven, when i put them on list) so i'm sure they came down at first turn.
and a frag cannon dread coming down from a pod is a goooood thing
however, the problem are they are locked on the rear side of the table, alone, and surely will be pwned in one or two shooting turn.
in battle against tau they probably will be wiped out just by the intercept :_(
so i was thinking about putting them on the rhino, and a rhino full of flamer equipped tac is a good thing; however, the cost increase and will not be able to use their true potential: even at full speed, rhino will need one or two turn to come close, and they sure will be glanced to death (if not exploded) after a couple of turn :\
so what's better? using ASM on rhino or drop pod, even in the risk of intercept?
or using a lot more of pod?
or... if i buy Angel's Wing for an hq, and then put them inside a pod with a 5-men squad, he can reroll scatter and avoid intercept for podded unit? or it work only for JP deep striking unit?
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Jump packs cannot embark into transports, including drop pods. So no-go.
77630
Post by: Thud
BakAG wrote: Desubot wrote:Demolisher and stuff says hi
Im glad i started taking those
also will get punked by grav cents pretty quickly.
well unless invisibility goes off. (they got telepathy right?)
Well the list used also has 5 drop pod assault marines with 3 meltas and 2 10 tacticals w melta combi melta.
If your demolisher survives this you might have a chance... but i doubt it. In one of the 2 battle reports the one vs eldar
even 5 wavesherpents crumbled. Anyway that is their fb page: https://www.facebook.com/TeamSGVideos?pnref=lhc
and you can find the review they did and the battle reports they did for the BA on the past broadcast on their twich channel: http://www.twitch.tv/sgvideo.
Ps Mr Jesse Newton said he already won a tournament with that list so...
That's not the list he won a tournament with. Also, it was a Highlander tournament and he had two Imperial Knights...
81617
Post by: each-uisge
Ouch
ok i did forget this
however, back on topic
it's safe to put ASM and troops on rhino in lieu of drop pod? or it's useless and does'nt worth the cost??
11860
Post by: Martel732
It's not useless. I've actually seen drop pods backfire quite a bit because you have to commit so early.
80136
Post by: BakAG
 Thud wrote:BakAG wrote: Desubot wrote:Demolisher and stuff says hi
Im glad i started taking those
also will get punked by grav cents pretty quickly.
well unless invisibility goes off. (they got telepathy right?)
Well the list used also has 5 drop pod assault marines with 3 meltas and 2 10 tacticals w melta combi melta.
If your demolisher survives this you might have a chance... but i doubt it. In one of the 2 battle reports the one vs eldar
even 5 wavesherpents crumbled. Anyway that is their fb page: https://www.facebook.com/TeamSGVideos?pnref=lhc
and you can find the review they did and the battle reports they did for the BA on the past broadcast on their twich channel: http://www.twitch.tv/sgvideo.
Ps Mr Jesse Newton said he already won a tournament with that list so...
That's not the list he won a tournament with. Also, it was a Highlander tournament and he had two Imperial Knights...
Yes thats true, he even said that his SG did more work killing things than both knights, the list shown is what was used in against eldar and deamons.
79662
Post by: akwing00
Anyone have a suggestion for a good general loadout for the stern guard combi-weapons in the archangles sanguine wing formation?
77846
Post by: Poly Ranger
Guys have you thought about the libby dread podding for a T1 assault? IF we can assault from the pod, then ANY MC or squad of MCs is paste! An average of 6 attacks on the charge with quickening. Striking at I5, WS5, st10. That means usually hitting first, on a 3+, wounding on a 2+ force attacks. Thats 3 dead carnifex right there!
87442
Post by: HalfBlood
akwing00 wrote:Anyone have a suggestion for a good general loadout for the stern guard combi-weapons in the archangles sanguine wing formation?
For Vanguard I am doing 8 Swords 2 Axes. Each Vanguard squad will be combat squaded resulting in 4 units of 5 with 4 swords and 1 axe.
For Sternguard I was thinking 5 combi plasma, 5 combi melta. I am not sure exactly how these squads should be combat squaded yet.
81366
Post by: sand.zzz
Poly Ranger wrote:Guys have you thought about the libby dread podding for a T1 assault? IF we can assault from the pod, then ANY MC or squad of MCs is paste! An average of 6 attacks on the charge with quickening. Striking at I5, WS5, st10. That means usually hitting first, on a 3+, wounding on a 2+ force attacks. Thats 3 dead carnifex right there!
I dont see anything in the Codex or Exterminatus that allows assault from deep strike. Lots of reserve rerolls, a run + shoot the same turn as DS, and a turn 1 DS.
80358
Post by: Fireraven
sand.zzz wrote:Poly Ranger wrote:Guys have you thought about the libby dread podding for a T1 assault? IF we can assault from the pod, then ANY MC or squad of MCs is paste! An average of 6 attacks on the charge with quickening. Striking at I5, WS5, st10. That means usually hitting first, on a 3+, wounding on a 2+ force attacks. Thats 3 dead carnifex right there!
I dont see anything in the Codex or Exterminatus that allows assault from deep strike. Lots of reserve rerolls, a run + shoot the same turn as DS, and a turn 1 DS.
It is a White Dwarf Exclusive formation in #47 Page
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
The assault from deep strike formation is in white dwarf
77846
Post by: Poly Ranger
sand.zzz wrote:Poly Ranger wrote:Guys have you thought about the libby dread podding for a T1 assault? IF we can assault from the pod, then ANY MC or squad of MCs is paste! An average of 6 attacks on the charge with quickening. Striking at I5, WS5, st10. That means usually hitting first, on a 3+, wounding on a 2+ force attacks. Thats 3 dead carnifex right there!
I dont see anything in the Codex or Exterminatus that allows assault from deep strike. Lots of reserve rerolls, a run + shoot the same turn as DS, and a turn 1 DS.
Go back a few pages in the thread. Everyone has been discussing it. It is a formation with 3 ravens which start rolling for arrival turn 1 with a 3+ reroll. Any BA unit arriving via deepstrike within 12" of 2 locator beacons from this formation can assault from deepstrike. Automatically Appended Next Post: The debate is to whether this applies to units arriving via drop pod.
When the SW codex was released there was discussion as to whether LotD could use drop pods as they are required to deploy via deepstrike. The issue was whether people interpreted the drop pod arriving via deepstrike and there happening to be a unit inside it or whether both arrived deepstrike. The conclusion of that discussion (of which there wasn't a final one) would set precedence for this it would seem.
66089
Post by: Kangodo
Well, not really sure.
In my opinion the content of the Drop Pod does not Deep Strike itself.
But I'm also of the opinion that the Formation cares about where it came from ( DS-reserve) and not how it came from there.
PS. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/627370.page
That's the thread with the discussion.
77846
Post by: Poly Ranger
I would tend to agree that it intended for teleporting and jump packs only. Even then it's pretty awesome.
73959
Post by: niv-mizzet
Poly Ranger wrote:I would tend to agree that it intended for teleporting and jump packs only. Even then it's pretty awesome.
Even though it specifically mentions "drop" in the description?
77846
Post by: Poly Ranger
To tell you the truth, as soon as I heard about this formation, I went on BL website and downloaded the last 3 WDs to make sure I got the right one. Turns out that they don't have an e-version of it yet (as of yesterday), so a complete waste of 7 odd quid (WD #46 is pretty good but the other 2 are the usial catalogues). So I was unaware of the actual description :-p. Now you say that though...
46257
Post by: th3maninblak
So i did play a game today vs an imperial fists sentinels of terra list and pretty much tabled him. Sanguinary guard made their points back, death company didnt (though getting shield of sanguinius off 2 turns in a row was great) but did soak a TON of firepower. The libby isnt the best HQ ive ever played with, but hes certainly strong. The priest is, well, phenomenal.
Surprisingly the work horses of the day were my 2 assault marine squads. Losing fnp hurts, but being str5 init5 on the charge and rapidly deploying melta guns to the field was definitely a huge boon.
Oh, and cassor the damned was a boss.
73959
Post by: niv-mizzet
 th3maninblak wrote:So i did play a game today vs an imperial fists sentinels of terra list and pretty much tabled him. Sanguinary guard made their points back, death company didnt (though getting shield of sanguinius off 2 turns in a row was great) but did soak a TON of firepower. The libby isnt the best HQ ive ever played with, but hes certainly strong. The priest is, well, phenomenal.
Surprisingly the work horses of the day were my 2 assault marine squads. Losing fnp hurts, but being str5 init5 on the charge and rapidly deploying melta guns to the field was definitely a huge boon.
Oh, and cassor the damned was a boss.
So far, my only game where I used Cassor, he dropped in and got into melee unwounded with a riptide. He then failed to wound the riptide, and the riptide exploded him with one smash. 
87442
Post by: HalfBlood
Based on how the rules are written, the Spearhead formation allows units in Drop Pods to assault the turn they come in.
Do I believe this is what GW meant?
Nah, I think the formation was designed for Jump units and Terminator units.
Do I think GW will FAQ it?
Ofcourse, but I feel they will allow units from Drop Pods to deep strike the same turn because it will allow them to sell more drop pods . As a BA player I've already bought 3 for my ASM Melta units, and my Tac HF units, but I may need more >.<.
In competitive play (1850 pts) I don't think we will see this formation. It costs at least 1020 + Tac upgrades = ~1100 points. That leaves you 750 points to spend on HQ / Troop Tax / Assault Killy units.
In the end I feel it will force most armies to invest in more AA units, or more Interceptor.
91733
Post by: BaronVonSnakPak
Anyone planning on fielding Sternguard Vets with their BA army?
Is a 5-man squad with 3 combi-plasma and 2 combi-melta in a drop pod worth the points?
18080
Post by: Anpu42
BaronVonSnakPak wrote:Anyone planning on fielding Sternguard Vets with their BA army?
Is a 5-man squad with 3 combi-plasma and 2 combi-melta in a drop pod worth the points?
I find them worth it, though I usually don't both with Melta [I have bad luck with Melta] I just stick with Plasma.
The formation with the One Sternguard with free Combies is going to become my Go to one I build two new Vanguard Vets. That sound in the background it my wallet as I look for Spartan Helms and Shields.
91733
Post by: BaronVonSnakPak
Anpu42 wrote:BaronVonSnakPak wrote:Anyone planning on fielding Sternguard Vets with their BA army?
Is a 5-man squad with 3 combi-plasma and 2 combi-melta in a drop pod worth the points?
I find them worth it, though I usually don't both with Melta [I have bad luck with Melta] I just stick with Plasma.
The formation with the One Sternguard with free Combies is going to become my Go to one I build two new Vanguard Vets. That sound in the background it my wallet as I look for Spartan Helms and Shields.
Cool, I'll just proxy the melta as plasma. Do people ever use a heavy weapon in a Stern squad? The ammo options from combi weapons always seemed a better option to me.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
BaronVonSnakPak wrote: Anpu42 wrote:BaronVonSnakPak wrote:Anyone planning on fielding Sternguard Vets with their BA army?
Is a 5-man squad with 3 combi-plasma and 2 combi-melta in a drop pod worth the points?
I find them worth it, though I usually don't both with Melta [I have bad luck with Melta] I just stick with Plasma.
The formation with the One Sternguard with free Combies is going to become my Go to one I build two new Vanguard Vets. That sound in the background it my wallet as I look for Spartan Helms and Shields.
Cool, I'll just proxy the melta as plasma. Do people ever use a heavy weapon in a Stern squad? The ammo options from combi weapons always seemed a better option to me.
The only Heavy weapon I would conceder myself are Heavy Bolters with Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics to offset the Snap Shot Issue.
To me Sternguard are to be a Mobile Force.
87702
Post by: TranSpyre
I was considering Heavy Flamers and Combi-meltas as a bodyguard for Mephy or Dante....
Gotta love that Assault Heavy Flamer.
81617
Post by: each-uisge
So long...
could be useful a little recap about formations and detachments?
useful for who does'nt whanna read 14 pages just to know wich supplement need to buy?
BA Formations:
- one on Shield of Baal: Deathstorm
- a couple of them on White Dwarf issue #47
- one inside BA Codex
where are the others?
BA Detachment
- one inside BA Codex
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
So is the best loadout for an Assault Squad 2x Meltaguns? Is Grav a no-no for them(best left to bikes?)
81617
Post by: each-uisge
Big problem with Grav-gun is they are salvo 3/2: that's mean half range and only 2 shot each if you are moving (and thus also disembarking from pod)
bikes however are relentless so they always fire at full range and 3 shot each
so: 2x grav-gun + 1x combi-grav on bikes shot total of 9 shot at 18" after moving 12" -> potentially crushing at 30"
same load-out on asm means 6 shot at 9" after moving 6" -> potential range is 15".
and bike cost only 4 point more than asm and got +1 T
42687
Post by: Coyote81
each-uisge wrote:Big problem with Grav-gun is they are salvo 3/2: that's mean half range and only 2 shot each if you are moving (and thus also disembarking from pod)
bikes however are relentless so they always fire at full range and 3 shot each
so: 2x grav-gun + 1x combi-grav on bikes shot total of 9 shot at 18" after moving 12" -> potentially crushing at 30"
same load-out on asm means 6 shot at 9" after moving 6" -> potential range is 15".
and bike cost only 4 point more than asm and got +1 T
They could jump 12 and shoot.
81617
Post by: each-uisge
not if drop podded
however, they still shot only 2 hit for grav-gun, not 3. And to 9" range!
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
 Coyote81 wrote:each-uisge wrote:Big problem with Grav-gun is they are salvo 3/2: that's mean half range and only 2 shot each if you are moving (and thus also disembarking from pod)
bikes however are relentless so they always fire at full range and 3 shot each
so: 2x grav-gun + 1x combi-grav on bikes shot total of 9 shot at 18" after moving 12" -> potentially crushing at 30"
same load-out on asm means 6 shot at 9" after moving 6" -> potential range is 15".
and bike cost only 4 point more than asm and got +1 T
They could jump 12 and shoot.
Yeah, but they couldn't assault if they fire their grav guns, which defeats the purpose of the Assault Squad. I think I might take a Bike Squad with Gravguns and an Assault Squad with Meltaguns. Bikes to deal with heavy armor stuff, and the Assault Squad to vehicle hunt.
54708
Post by: TheCustomLime
Do you guys think it's viable to run foot Death Company? I was considering converting some extra tac marines I have into Death Co and I have a ton of extra bits to do so. I was thinking of equipping them with a couple of infernus pistols, power fists and loading them up in a Land Raider crusader.
10335
Post by: Razerous
 TheCustomLime wrote:Do you guys think it's viable to run foot Death Company? I was considering converting some extra tac marines I have into Death Co and I have a ton of extra bits to do so. I was thinking of equipping them with a couple of infernus pistols, power fists and loading them up in a Land Raider crusader.
Grav Death Company yeeaa... wait awww... 
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Razerous wrote: TheCustomLime wrote:Do you guys think it's viable to run foot Death Company? I was considering converting some extra tac marines I have into Death Co and I have a ton of extra bits to do so. I was thinking of equipping them with a couple of infernus pistols, power fists and loading them up in a Land Raider crusader.
Grav Death Company yeeaa... wait awww...
Yeah, that would be pretty awesome if they could get grav, but alas they cannot. Bikes seem to be the best way to get grav for BA. Oh well.
42687
Post by: Coyote81
casvalremdeikun wrote: Coyote81 wrote:each-uisge wrote:Big problem with Grav-gun is they are salvo 3/2: that's mean half range and only 2 shot each if you are moving (and thus also disembarking from pod)
bikes however are relentless so they always fire at full range and 3 shot each
so: 2x grav-gun + 1x combi-grav on bikes shot total of 9 shot at 18" after moving 12" -> potentially crushing at 30"
same load-out on asm means 6 shot at 9" after moving 6" -> potential range is 15".
and bike cost only 4 point more than asm and got +1 T
They could jump 12 and shoot.
Yeah, but they couldn't assault if they fire their grav guns, which defeats the purpose of the Assault Squad. I think I might take a Bike Squad with Gravguns and an Assault Squad with Meltaguns. Bikes to deal with heavy armor stuff, and the Assault Squad to vehicle hunt.
You take 5 Man ASM with 2x special weapons and a sergeant with combi-weapon? I find that hard to believe. It is a mobile shooting unit it through and through.
58692
Post by: DarthOvious
Has anyone else noticed that Corbulo is an initiative beast. He has a base init of 5 but with his warlord trait, speed of the primarch, the red grail and charging with the detachment bonus from the codex he could be initive 8.
81025
Post by: koooaei
Don't gravgunz get some sort of ini reduction for someone hit by it? A squad of gravgunz can be used to deal with mellee MC in combination with another squad or even themselves popping all those krak nades before this MC hits them in mellee.
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Post by: HalfBlood
I am still disappointed that Corbulo doesn't have an option to purchase a JP.
How are people running Corbulo? In a rhino or Stormraven?
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Post by: Anpu42
Probably 9 models with Vanguard Vets in a pod or 10 models with Sternguard in a Stormraven.
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Post by: JuniorRS13
Has anyone theorized how Seth could be utilized? He might not be the most optimal choice, but I'm sure there's something that could put him to use.
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Post by: Frankenberry
JuniorRS13 wrote:Has anyone theorized how Seth could be utilized? He might not be the most optimal choice, but I'm sure there's something that could put him to use.
Just from what I've been reading he could be very nasty when paired with a good squad of DC, maybe in a pod with a decent formation as backup?
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 koooaei wrote:Don't gravgunz get some sort of ini reduction for someone hit by it? A squad of gravgunz can be used to deal with mellee MC in combination with another squad or even themselves popping all those krak nades before this MC hits them in mellee.
Yeah, Gravguns have the Concussive rule, which lowers the target's initiative to 1 until the end of the next assault phase. Which means they could be used in conjunction with Hammernators to take down an annoying MC. Though racing around said MC, taking potshots with the Gravguns might be a better option.
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Post by: HalfBlood
Quick Rules Question that I hope one of you can help clear up for me.
So the Warlord trait Descent of Angels says: Units in your Walord's detachment with.............
So my question is: If you have a Formation, lets say Archangel Sanguine Wing, but your warlord is not part of the Formation and has the warlord trait above, does the trait effect deepstriking vanguard? I understand that the trait says the untits must be part of the Warlords Detachment, however this is a formation NOT a detachment.
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Post by: Jefffar
I think you are on to something there Halfblood.
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Post by: akwing00
HalfBlood wrote:Quick Rules Question that I hope one of you can help clear up for me.
So the Warlord trait Descent of Angels says: Units in your Walord's detachment with.............
So my question is: If you have a Formation, lets say Archangel Sanguine Wing, but your warlord is not part of the Formation and has the warlord trait above, does the trait effect deepstriking vanguard? I understand that the trait says the untits must be part of the Warlords Detachment, however this is a formation NOT a detachment.
page 121 of the rules, first line under the section formations says, formations are a special type of detachment so i already assumed the deepstriking vanguard formation wouldn't benefit from that warlord trait, so I was thinking of taking some locator beacons on my drop pods
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
HalfBlood wrote:Quick Rules Question that I hope one of you can help clear up for me.
So the Warlord trait Descent of Angels says: Units in your Walord's detachment with.............
So my question is: If you have a Formation, lets say Archangel Sanguine Wing, but your warlord is not part of the Formation and has the warlord trait above, does the trait effect deepstriking vanguard? I understand that the trait says the untits must be part of the Warlords Detachment, however this is a formation NOT a detachment.
No, members of the Formation Detachment would not gain the Warlord benefits. Only units in the Warlord's Detachment will gain the Command Benefits.
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Post by: MadMaverick76
ASM with 2x Melta still legit?
I am thinking my all JP BA Army would just need an update in adding 2x VV and some SG in a DP. Libby as an HQ and maybe 2x ASM.
Ideas on the general build? It seems to lack any real heavy support or range, but lots of bodies. It is just a general idea right now, haven't put pen to paper for the numbers/points/specifics.
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Post by: locarno24
HalfBlood wrote:Quick Rules Question that I hope one of you can help clear up for me.
So the Warlord trait Descent of Angels says: Units in your Walord's detachment with.............
So my question is: If you have a Formation, lets say Archangel Sanguine Wing, but your warlord is not part of the Formation and has the warlord trait above, does the trait effect deepstriking vanguard? I understand that the trait says the untits must be part of the Warlords Detachment, however this is a formation NOT a detachment.
a formation IS a Detachment,.
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Post by: Carnage43
MadMaverick76 wrote:ASM with 2x Melta still legit?
I am thinking my all JP BA Army would just need an update in adding 2x VV and some SG in a DP. Libby as an HQ and maybe 2x ASM.
Ideas on the general build? It seems to lack any real heavy support or range, but lots of bodies. It is just a general idea right now, haven't put pen to paper for the numbers/points/specifics.
2x melta is still legal, and legit, but your army has no troop choices. ASM are no longer troops.
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Post by: MadMaverick76
Carnage43 wrote: MadMaverick76 wrote:ASM with 2x Melta still legit?
I am thinking my all JP BA Army would just need an update in adding 2x VV and some SG in a DP. Libby as an HQ and maybe 2x ASM.
Ideas on the general build? It seems to lack any real heavy support or range, but lots of bodies. It is just a general idea right now, haven't put pen to paper for the numbers/points/specifics.
2x melta is still legal, and legit, but your army has no troop choices. ASM are no longer troops.
Hot damn, figured I missed something.
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Post by: th3maninblak
Ive been running 2x10 assault marines with double melta and a power sword, and theyve been the MVPs in a couple games. If youre running dante i would try out 3x5 assault marines with jump packs and double melta starting in reserve.
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Post by: jifel
th3maninblak wrote:Ive been running 2x10 assault marines with double melta and a power sword, and theyve been the MVPs in a couple games. If youre running dante i would try out 3x5 assault marines with jump packs and double melta starting in reserve.
If you're deepstriking the ASM, you could just take a Drop Pod instead... Also, you can buy either a combi melta or two pistols for the Sergeant, which isn't a bad deal for extra melta punch.
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Post by: MadMaverick76
th3maninblak wrote:Ive been running 2x10 assault marines with double melta and a power sword, and theyve been the MVPs in a couple games. If youre running dante i would try out 3x5 assault marines with jump packs and double melta starting in reserve.
What's your point level? Troop choice?
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Post by: th3maninblak
Without dante, drop pods are the way to go. With him you bring them ALL in reliably on turn 2, and with greater accuracy and added mobility in subsequent turns.
In all my lists ive been running 5x tacs in a pod with melta+combi melta and cassor the damned.
Edit: my shop regularly plays at 1850
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Post by: Midnightdeathblade
So I dont know if I missed this, but is there any way for Sanguinary guard to be troops?
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Post by: BaronVonSnakPak
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
There is not. FOC changes seem to be a thing of the past.
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Post by: Rezyn
What edition of WD are those formations in, like the one with 3 ravens? I just picked up #46 and it has a flesh tearers one, but not the others I've seen discussed.
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Post by: Midnightdeathblade
Thats unfortunate. Bright were the days of themed armies. Alas, they are no more...
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Post by: tomjoad
You know, if themed armies are genuinely what you are looking for, they have a section in the main rulebook detailing exactly how to theme you army around any unit or concept you like...
And if you, like near everybody else on Earth don't want to play Unbound, I'm willing to suggest that "themed armies" were never as compelling a concept as people often made them out to be.
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Post by: Kangodo
I also think it's weird to think of spam as a 'theme'.
Sanguinary Guard have back-up, troops to sweep whatever they leave behind in their rush.
You will hardly find a good general that relies on a single unit to deal with everything.
Unless you're playing in really small missions, in which case you should go Unbound at 500.
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Post by: adamsouza
There is a detachment to play the Archangles, 1st company
You can field all Death Company by using the datasheets from DeathClaw as troops, up to 4 DC as Elites, and Tycho as HQ
All Jump Packs, take Archangels detachment
First Turn assault, 3 stormraves detachment
Make it rain Dreadnaughts, BA detachment gives you 2 Libby Hq Dreads, 4 elite Dreads, and Cassius the Damned as a troop, and/or Anchangels for 6 Furiosos
There are PLENTY of themed combinations, they are just different from the ones you used in 6th Edition
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Post by: Midnightdeathblade
I just always wanted to use a load of Sanguinary guard. Even though they would probably just get mowed down lol.
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Post by: Poly Ranger
Sorry to ask again guys, but where do I find the formation with free power weapons on VVs and combis on sternies?
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Post by: Kangodo
That is still possible! In the old Codex you could take: Dante + 30 Sanguinary Guard + Priest = 1500 points and that would give 10 or so FNP. Now you can take: Dante + 2x Priest + 30 Sanguinary Guard + 2x5 Scouts for 30 points less and that would give 20 models FNP. So let's compare this: +10 more models with FNP +Guaranteed Furious Charge and Initiative 5 on the charge +Dante hits at W7, I7, S7 with AP2 // 20 SG's hit at WS5, I5 and S5 with their Swords. +10 Scouts so you could keep the entire SG-group in Deep Strike and you can camp your objectives (Scouts are good for this! Especially with CCWs) +30 points left for anti-tank gear or Death Masks +Squads of 10 (perhaps 2x10 for the priests and 2x5 to spread the assault) +Dante's Mask is now sort of like a Fear-bubble. -No pinpoint Deep Strike -You might need to buy some Scout-models. Poly Ranger wrote:Sorry to ask again guys, but where do I find the formation with free power weapons on VVs and combis on sternies?
Shield of Baal: Exterminatus I have the WD47 and it's not in there, so that is the only option left.
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Post by: Poly Ranger
Cheers kangodo.
Realistically guys, the only thing im p*ssed about with the dex is Baals being moved to HS and losing fast. Especially since a flamestorm cannon is apparently worth 40pts more than an autocannon. I've got 6 shelf sitters now (4 flamestorms).
Talons could have done with rampage and tycho needed an assault weapon aside from a bolt pistol.
Aside from that, I absolutely love this new dex and all the formations.
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Post by: Anpu42
Poly Ranger wrote:Cheers kangodo.
Realistically guys, the only thing im p*ssed about with the dex is Baals being moved to HS and losing fast. Especially since a flamestorm cannon is apparently worth 40pts more than an autocannon. I've got 6 shelf sitters now (4 flamestorms).
Talons could have done with rampage and tycho needed an assault weapon aside from a bolt pistol.
Aside from that, I absolutely love this new dex and all the formations.
The Baal still has fast, it lost scout.
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Post by: Poly Ranger
Yeh sorry I meant scout. Scout was what made a flamestorm so good. 40pts more than a base pred now, has to get in melta range to be of use and won't realistically be firing against any smart opponent until T3. What a waste of points.
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Post by: Midnightdeathblade
Kangodo wrote:That is still possible!
In the old Codex you could take:
Dante + 30 Sanguinary Guard + Priest = 1500 points and that would give 10 or so FNP.
Now you can take:
Dante + 2x Priest + 30 Sanguinary Guard + 2x5 Scouts for 30 points less and that would give 20 models FNP.
So let's compare this:
+10 more models with FNP
+Guaranteed Furious Charge and Initiative 5 on the charge
+Dante hits at W7, I7, S7 with AP2 // 20 SG's hit at WS5, I5 and S5 with their Swords.
+10 Scouts so you could keep the entire SG-group in Deep Strike and you can camp your objectives (Scouts are good for this! Especially with CCWs)
+30 points left for anti-tank gear or Death Masks
+Squads of 10 (perhaps 2x10 for the priests and 2x5 to spread the assault)
+Dante's Mask is now sort of like a Fear-bubble.
-No pinpoint Deep Strike
-You might need to buy some Scout-models.
Poly Ranger wrote:Sorry to ask again guys, but where do I find the formation with free power weapons on VVs and combis on sternies?
Shield of Baal: Exterminatus
I have the WD47 and it's not in there, so that is the only option left.
I happen to have some awesome metal scouts!
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Edit: didn't read a couple posts after the one I quoted.
I wish there was a Baal Pred formation that gave them Scout. One can dream.
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Post by: th3maninblak
Im still using and loving my assault cannon preds. 135 points for a fast av13 platform with a ton of anti infantry/light armor gunfire? Yes please.
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Post by: Martel732
th3maninblak wrote:Im still using and loving my assault cannon preds. 135 points for a fast av13 platform with a ton of anti infantry/light armor gunfire? Yes please.
The BA don't need anti infantry fire, though. They need fire to kill things that they can't kill in hth.
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Post by: th3maninblak
Martel732 wrote: th3maninblak wrote:Im still using and loving my assault cannon preds. 135 points for a fast av13 platform with a ton of anti infantry/light armor gunfire? Yes please.
The BA don't need anti infantry fire, though. They need fire to kill things that they can't kill in hth.
They also need gunfire to crack open transports and put wounds on MCs so they can win those combats. And TL assault cannons can tackle av12-13 as well.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
The fact that the Assault Cannons are rending means you stand a good chance of putting the hurt on stuff no matter the toughness or AV. But you can do almost the same thing for a lot cheaper with a Razorback. Only drawback is the worse armor.
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Post by: wuestenfux
 jifel wrote: th3maninblak wrote:Ive been running 2x10 assault marines with double melta and a power sword, and theyve been the MVPs in a couple games. If youre running dante i would try out 3x5 assault marines with jump packs and double melta starting in reserve.
If you're deepstriking the ASM, you could just take a Drop Pod instead... Also, you can buy either a combi melta or two pistols for the Sergeant, which isn't a bad deal for extra melta punch.
A drop podder unit is immobile as soon as it has arrived.
I'd prefer jump packs any day and reserve the pods for Tacticals.
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Post by: each-uisge
It's better ASM on Rhino or on JP?
i normally whould use 2xASM with melta combo on pod but i need to avoid deep strike 'cause of @#£$%& interceptor, so i'm planning on rhino. However, i fear rhino's armor is too low to protect them and on feet they are almost useless
also, is it wise to use double detachment? i mean something like Baal Strike Force with DC, SG, Priests, ASM, bike and CCW scouts, and a CAD with just 2x tac. That's great, 'cause i can use sec obj on tactical and still get +1I on every assault/dc/sg marine. Plus i can get 2x priest AND Mephiston (and i can also put priest and Mephy on same unit for max crashing awesomeness) however i will need to pay double "troop tax". So long: it's cost effective? can i pick an allied detachment as BA while my main is BSF? or an allied flesh tearer (or another subchapter)?
last, but not least: is sanguinary a good choice for Mephiston? just the quickening will make him wreak havoc around the field, however a full biomancy could be more focused...
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Post by: wuestenfux
each-uisge wrote:It's better ASM on Rhino or on JP?
i normally whould use 2xASM with melta combo on pod but i need to avoid deep strike 'cause of @#£$%& interceptor, so i'm planning on rhino. However, i fear rhino's armor is too low to protect them and on feet they are almost useless
also, is it wise to use double detachment? i mean something like Baal Strike Force with DC, SG, Priests, ASM, bike and CCW scouts, and a CAD with just 2x tac. That's great, 'cause i can use sec obj on tactical and still get +1I on every assault/dc/sg marine. Plus i can get 2x priest AND Mephiston (and i can also put priest and Mephy on same unit for max crashing awesomeness) however i will need to pay double "troop tax". So long: it's cost effective? can i pick an allied detachment as BA while my main is BSF? or an allied flesh tearer (or another subchapter)?
last, but not least: is sanguinary a good choice for Mephiston? just the quickening will make him wreak havoc around the field, however a full biomancy could be more focused...
Tacticals in Rhinos or Pods and ASM for deep striking or moving behind the Rhinos where the Rhinos are used as moving hills.
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Post by: each-uisge
ASM on JP then?
Rhino are not really what i should call "moving hills"... more like "moving piece of cardboard"
luckily, they are fast and can flat out to 24" in a single round (or move in formation so the first give cover to the other ones...)
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Post by: adamsouza
each-uisge wrote:ASM on JP then?
Rhino are not really what i should call "moving hills"... more like "moving piece of cardboard"
luckily, they are fast and can flat out to 24" in a single round (or move in formation so the first give cover to the other ones...)
Unless they EXPLODE !! they remain on the table as scenery, so your likely to have a table full of Rhino Wrecks to hide behind
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Post by: Martel732
th3maninblak wrote:Martel732 wrote: th3maninblak wrote:Im still using and loving my assault cannon preds. 135 points for a fast av13 platform with a ton of anti infantry/light armor gunfire? Yes please.
The BA don't need anti infantry fire, though. They need fire to kill things that they can't kill in hth.
They also need gunfire to crack open transports and put wounds on MCs so they can win those combats. And TL assault cannons can tackle av12-13 as well.
You can grow old waiting to roll those "6s". The Baal is not an effective anti AV12-13 platform. Pay some more points and get a Stormraven.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote:The fact that the Assault Cannons are rending means you stand a good chance of putting the hurt on stuff no matter the toughness or AV. But you can do almost the same thing for a lot cheaper with a Razorback. Only drawback is the worse armor.
It's not a good chance. Rending is a terrible rule unless it is army-wide like the Eldar. I personally think the assault cannon is a gak weapon. Paying 100+ pts for four rending shots is pretty crazy to me.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Rending isn't that terrible. But you are right, it is much better when practically everyone has it. But Eldar need a hefty amount of nerfing anyway.
I am wondering if a Techmarine w/servo harness with four servitors stuffed into a Stormraven a worthy investiture? I hate that the Techmarine takes up an HQ slot, but making the Stormraven even more durable might be worth it, also for some Bolster Defenses to make Scouts have a good cover save.
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Post by: Martel732
casvalremdeikun wrote:Rending isn't that terrible. But you are right, it is much better when practically everyone has it. But Eldar need a hefty amount of nerfing anyway.
I am wondering if a Techmarine w/servo harness with four servitors stuffed into a Stormraven a worthy investiture? I hate that the Techmarine takes up an HQ slot, but making the Stormraven even more durable might be worth it, also for some Bolster Defenses to make Scouts have a good cover save.
Having used the baal for years and years, i can tell you that rending is so unreliable it may as well not exist. You can pray for the "6"s, but thats a terrible general plan.
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Post by: th3maninblak
I actually cant count the number of rhinos, razorbacks, raiders, predators, and even wave serpents ive brought down with baal preds. Ive also found a 2 to 1 split of baals to stormravens to be a really good mix.
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Post by: Martel732
th3maninblak wrote:I actually cant count the number of rhinos, razorbacks, raiders, predators, and even wave serpents ive brought down with baal preds. Ive also found a 2 to 1 split of baals to stormravens to be a really good mix.
Consider yourself the world's luckiest BA player. And you don't need rending against AV 11. Still, I think the assault cannon is a poor weapon, especially compared to the scatter laser. Having to get within 24" for if-come-maybe "6" has never worked that well for me.
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Post by: Poly Ranger
I know it was mentioned earlier but I want to elaborate on taking advantage of those free 400pts of free wargear in that formation.
I've ordered exterminarus but it's not arrived yet so I'm assuming you don't need a HQ in the formation.
The powerweapons I reckon would be good for a 5 sword/5axe split, allows you to deal with most stuff then. Combis on the stern a 5 melta/5 plasma split for the same reasons, combat squadded on deployment. Keeping the VVs as full 10 units. 1 would benefit from an attached priest from the rulebook detachment.
So what they would need so far is something to be able to thin horde. We have that in DC. 4 squads of 5 with no upgrades would be cheap and lethal for the points.
Anti-MC could be supplied by 2 grav biker squads and a 3rd melta biker squad with attack bike could provide further AT.
Scouts with bp&ccw with melta bombs on the sarges for cheap and cheerful threats to take the 2 troop slots. Elite force whilst being high amount of MSU.
Priest (In VV squad)
Jp
5 DC
Jps
5 DC
Jps
5 DC
Jps
5 DC
Jps
5 scouts
Mbs
5 scouts
Mbs
5 bikers
2 grav, combi grav
5 bikers
2 grav, combi grav
5 bikes and 1 attack bike
2 melta, combi melta, multimelta
10 VVs
5 sword, 5 axe
10 VVs
5 sword, 5 axe
10 sternguard
5 combi melta, 5 combi plasma
Stormraven
Tl mm, tl ac
2000pts
2 detachments for tournament use too. All round tac. Little light on AA. With 14 to 16 dangerous units.
What do you think?
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Post by: Paradigm
each-uisge wrote:
also, is it wise to use double detachment? i mean something like Baal Strike Force with DC, SG, Priests, ASM, bike and CCW scouts, and a CAD with just 2x tac. That's great, 'cause i can use sec obj on tactical and still get +1I on every assault/dc/sg marine. Plus i can get 2x priest AND Mephiston (and i can also put priest and Mephy on same unit for max crashing awesomeness) however i will need to pay double "troop tax". So long: it's cost effective? can i pick an allied detachment as BA while my main is BSF? or an allied flesh tearer (or another subchapter)?
last, but not least: is sanguinary a good choice for Mephiston? just the quickening will make him wreak havoc around the field, however a full biomancy could be more focused...
I'm thinking I'll be taking 2 Detachments at anything 1500+. Primary will be Archangels, with a TDA Libby/Captain, Dread and any TDA or Sternguard I'm taking. In the secondary, it'll be a Baal Strike Force with my Tacticals, Assaults, DC and SG, and a pair of Priests in HQ. Basically, stuff that doesn't need the Init boost (shooters and Termies) goes in the Archangels, the rest go in a BSF for the old-school FC.
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Post by: th3maninblak
Martel732 wrote: th3maninblak wrote:I actually cant count the number of rhinos, razorbacks, raiders, predators, and even wave serpents ive brought down with baal preds. Ive also found a 2 to 1 split of baals to stormravens to be a really good mix.
Consider yourself the world's luckiest BA player. And you don't need rending against AV 11. Still, I think the assault cannon is a poor weapon, especially compared to the scatter laser. Having to get within 24" for if-come-maybe "6" has never worked that well for me.
To each their own, i suppose. There are also tons of monsters in my meta, too. The baals help with them a ton as well.
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Post by: kryczek
I love my Baal but it just never seem's to cut the mustard.
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Post by: Martel732
th3maninblak wrote:Martel732 wrote: th3maninblak wrote:I actually cant count the number of rhinos, razorbacks, raiders, predators, and even wave serpents ive brought down with baal preds. Ive also found a 2 to 1 split of baals to stormravens to be a really good mix.
Consider yourself the world's luckiest BA player. And you don't need rending against AV 11. Still, I think the assault cannon is a poor weapon, especially compared to the scatter laser. Having to get within 24" for if-come-maybe "6" has never worked that well for me.
To each their own, i suppose. There are also tons of monsters in my meta, too. The baals help with them a ton as well.
Can't you put more wounds on monsters with a tri-las fast pred because of 48" range?
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Post by: Razerous
kryczek wrote:I love my Baal but it just never seem's to cut the mustard.
Compare it to the Sicaran.
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Post by: kryczek
Oooh nasty. I like it.
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Post by: evildrcheese
What are people running HQ wise? I used to mix it up between libbies and reclusiarchs. We've lost access to Telepathy, so no access to invis. Our powers are pretty interesting but since only the Primarisis guaranteed I'm finding it hard to build a list with Libbies as the HQs
Now Priests are HQs so they're competing for the covetedslot. I always used to run them with full assault squads, but now I can't see myself running assault marines so now sure if I should take them...or who to put them with if I do (SG seem a good contender, but SG are pretty expensive so if not with the SG then with who?)
Captains now have access to Arty armour, so they're slightly more viable.
My meta isn't really going for LoWs, at the moment, so no Dante for me, hopefully I can persuade that the restrictions to LoWs should be not apply to Character LoWs, only super heavies...
So, yes what to do about the HQ conundrum?
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Post by: Martel732
I think librarians are still pretty valuable. Biomancy, divination, and sanguinius are all pretty useful.
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Post by: Paradigm
I'm going with TDA Libby or TDA Captain with TH/SS for my Archangels Detachment, and 2 Priests in HQ for my BSF Detachment at 1850, running with Pod Assualt Squads (sadly now at 9 men so the Priest can fit).
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Post by: jifel
So I just got Deathstorm for Christmas, being a Tyranid Fanatic. But, now that I have that, I'll be starting a small flesh Tearers army. I have the BA codex, but any Reccomendations on load out for the Shield of Baal units? I was thinking a Furioso Dread as that seems the best, and for DC I was thinking Jump Packs with one Hammer and one powersword on the Sergeant. For the captain, would it be best to replace the Stormbolter for a Combi? I have all the options if it is. And for Terminators, if I must take them, I was thinking I'd take one cyclone and one chain fist.
Thoughts on the above? Any more advice for flesh Tearers?
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Post by: each-uisge
I usually use one DC with Power Weapon, one with Power Fist, the other with Chainsword. Fist ones with bolter, other with pistol for maximum attack number.
DC without JP are useless imho, so I'd put that on everyone. However, i will magnetise the JP so they are easier to transport. I think adding a magnet to backpack too could be useful to swap JP and not-JP
My Furioso has magnetised arms too so i can hotswap them in the need.
For termies i don't know because i almost never used them
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Post by: ThatSwellFella
Speaking of Death company(i have only played a couple games before the new BA dex, and i am a flesh tearers player to be precise): the only time i would not give them jump packs is if i want them iin drop pods, Say Gabriel Seth, chaplain(eventually with valours edge, still have to see how it will work out, and 8 death company with Hammer,fist and rest chainswords, eventually 3 inferno pistols since i am already packing them in a drop pod. I would drop them with vanguard veterans with sanguinary priest, (8 of veterans to be precise) 5 of which have TH/SS combo, and 1 pair of lightning claws(not necessarily) while sargeant has a relic blade and storm shield(to maximize the initiative 5 from the baal strikeforce detachment i am thinking of using) and assault squad with 2 meltaguns and inferno pistol/power sword sargeant.. and drop the 2 death company/furioso dreads afterwards tl;dr I would play the BA assault elements all pods with a lot of melta or all jump packs in which case the relic jumppack is a must
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Post by: jifel
Quick question: If you use the Flesh Tearers Relics from Shield of Baal: Exterminatus, are you prohibited from using Blood Angels relics or formations?
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Post by: Poly Ranger
BA relics will only be prohibited in that detachment. You can take whichever formations you like. They are separate from the flesh tearers formation, even if still used as flesh tearers.
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Post by: Kangodo
I'm also confused by the wording for Relics and Warlord Traits, so let me quote the relevant parts:
Any character with the Blood Angels Faction that can normally select from the Relics of Baal, and is part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book, can select a relic from those listed in their relevant section instead of from those listed in Codex: Blood Angels at the points cost shown.
Units chosen from the Archangels Detachment and Formations can also make use of the Relics and Warlord Traits listed below.
If your Warlord is part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book, you can choose to roll on the Warlord Traits table of the appropriate Faction in the following sections instead of those found in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules or listed in your codex.
Only units from these Detachments/Formations may pick the Relics and Traits, that is clear! So no Baal Strike Force with Archangel-Traits or Relics.
But the usage of 'can', 'can also' and 'you can choose' makes it sound as if a unit from an Exterminatus-formation/detachment may also use the Codex-Traits and Relics.
Perhaps it's because English is not my first language, but what am I missing?
16978
Post by: exsanguis
Working on a list to include the Archangels Sanguine formation and a Fire Raptor:
Sanguine Formation:
Sternguard x10 - 10x Combis
Vanguards x10 - 2x Power Fists, 8x Power Weapons, 2x Storm Shields
Vanguards x10 - 2x Power Fists, 8x Power Weapons, 2x Storm Shields
Stormraven - Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta
CAD:
2x Sanguinary Priests - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol
2x Tac Squads x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta
Fire Raptor Gunship
Predator - Twin-linked Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Leaves me with 63 pts for a 2k list. Any thoughts?
52201
Post by: evildrcheese
Martel732 wrote:I think librarians are still pretty valuable. Biomancy, divination, and sanguinius are all pretty useful.
What support units are going with the libbies?
Paradigm wrote:I'm going with TDA Libby or TDA Captain with TH/SS for my Archangels Detachment, and 2 Priests in HQ for my BSF Detachment at 1850, running with Pod Assualt Squads (sadly now at 9 men so the Priest can fit).
I assume then you're running termie units within the Archangels strike force? Or is it Van/Stern vets and a lone HQ deep? Can you expand on your thinking? I did consider podding assault marines as 9 man and a priest, but the mobility is too much to give up. I think if podding min squads with max special weapons is the way forward.
I'm thinking a bike Libby and bike priest in a bike squad might be useful. Perhaps go divination with plas, or biomancy with grav. Potentially a T8 librarian with iron arm is nice, with a staff he striking at S10 on the charge...
The Archangels Orbital Intervention Force looks pretty interesting. Any combination of 3 termy units who can run and shoot from deep strike might make Tac termies more viable. I wonder if you could effectively run twice with assault terminators using that formation...I also assume TDA HQs from another detachment are free to join these units and benefit from the formation special rules (?).
42687
Post by: Coyote81
exsanguis wrote:Working on a list to include the Archangels Sanguine formation and a Fire Raptor:
Sanguine Formation:
Sternguard x10 - 10x Combis
Vanguards x10 - 2x Power Fists, 8x Power Weapons, 2x Storm Shields
Vanguards x10 - 2x Power Fists, 8x Power Weapons, 2x Storm Shields
Stormraven - Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta
CAD:
2x Sanguinary Priests - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol
2x Tac Squads x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta
Fire Raptor Gunship
Predator - Twin-linked Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Leaves me with 63 pts for a 2k list. Any thoughts?
I've been trying to use that formation to my advantage as well. Maybe my list will give you some ideas. I'll explain my reasoning as well.
Sanguine Formation:
Sternguard x10 - 10x Combis(plasma/melta)
Vanguards x10 - 1x Power Fists, 2x Storm Shields with LC (One set on Sgt), 4x Powermaul, 3x Powerswords JPs
Vanguards x10 - 1x Power Fists, 2x Storm Shields with LC (One set on Sgt), 4x Powermaul, 3x Powerswords JPs
Stormraven - Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta, Extra Armor (Never get Crew stunned)
Baal Strike Force.
1x Sanguinary Priests - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol Power Sword Veritas Vitae warlord
1x Sanguinary Priests - Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol CCW
Furioso Dreadnought Melta/Heavy Flamer Droppod Beacon
10x Tacticals HF, Flamer, Sgt w/ 2x HF Droppod Beacon
5x Scouts BP/ CCW Sgt Meltabomb Camo Cloaks
5x Scouts BP/ CCW Sgt Meltabomb Camo Cloaks
5x ASM 2x Melta Combi-Melta Droppod Beacon
The idea behind the list is to reduce my armies weakness to flyer by having the whole army on my opponents side of the table. The droppods will guide in my VV and SGV when they jump from the stormraven on turn 2. I have the options of bringing my flamer heavy tacticals turn one with dread support, or the melta heavy ASM with dread support. Notice the 2nd half of the army gets +1I on charge and give my warlord rerolls on the warlord table.
25400
Post by: Fayric
Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.
66089
Post by: Kangodo
 Fayric wrote:Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.
That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.
42687
Post by: Coyote81
Kangodo wrote: Fayric wrote:Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.
That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.
This kind of stuff makes me look forward to a revamped psyker system for 8th ed.
25400
Post by: Fayric
Kangodo wrote: Fayric wrote:Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.
That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.
You may still swap a randomly generated power for the disciplines primaris. Technically you roll once on divination -swap it for Prescience, then go on to roll on sang and swap it for Quickening.
Edit: the relevant rule explaining primaris powers are on p23 of the rule book. Psychic focus (as you refer to) is a separate rule on p22.
76717
Post by: CrownAxe
Kangodo wrote: Fayric wrote:Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.
That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.
You're both right. Primaris powers can always be chosen as a substitute for any rolled power but if you happen to roll all of your on the same discipline you also get the primaris for free.
25400
Post by: Fayric
 CrownAxe wrote:Kangodo wrote: Fayric wrote:Not to fond of psychers these days, but a lv2 lib choosing primaris from both divination and sang sounds like a solid option for any build.
Much better than any gamble roll on a single list to get focus.
That is not how Primaris Powers work.
When you pick your choices all from Divination, you also get the Divination Primaris; it is a bonus for staying in a single Psychic-discipline.
Same goes for the other Disciplines.
You're both right. Primaris powers can always be chosen as a substitute for any rolled power but if you happen to roll all of your on the same discipline you also get the primaris for free.
No we are not both right, he said I cant swap powers for primaris. this is in all ways wrong.
52201
Post by: evildrcheese
Since we're on the subject of psychic powers, anyone have any idea if Mephiston benefits from Psychic Focus for a discipline he takes his two randomly generated powers from?
D
77630
Post by: Thud
 evildrcheese wrote:Since we're on the subject of psychic powers, anyone have any idea if Mephiston benefits from Psychic Focus for a discipline he takes his two randomly generated powers from?
D
Yes, he can get psychic focus. I'm at my parents' place now, so I can't give you a page number, but in the psychic phase section it states that powers psykers automatically get, that are not part of a discipline, do not count for the purposes of psychic focus.
66089
Post by: Kangodo
CrownAxe wrote:You're both right. Primaris powers can always be chosen as a substitute for any rolled power but if you happen to roll all of your on the same discipline you also get the primaris for free.
You are right, I totally read over that part.
77159
Post by: Paradigm
evildrcheese wrote:
Paradigm wrote:I'm going with TDA Libby or TDA Captain with TH/SS for my Archangels Detachment, and 2 Priests in HQ for my BSF Detachment at 1850, running with Pod Assualt Squads (sadly now at 9 men so the Priest can fit).
I assume then you're running termie units within the Archangels strike force? Or is it Van/Stern vets and a lone HQ deep? Can you expand on your thinking? I did consider podding assault marines as 9 man and a priest, but the mobility is too much to give up. I think if podding min squads with max special weapons is the way forward.
Yeah, Termies in the AA. Here's my rough 1850 list:
Archangels:
ML2 Librarian, TDA
10 Termies, 1 HF, 1 AC (combat squadded)
5 Sternguard, Pod or Rhino
Baal Strike Force:
2x Sang Priest
5x Death Co, JP
2x Tacticals, All The Flamers, Rhinos
2x Assaults, 9-men, 2x Meltas in each
Somewhere in there things may get swapped out for some SangGuard, a Dread or even Vanguard.
Not the best, but then it's not trying to be.
52201
Post by: evildrcheese
On page 105 there's details of Special Issue Wargear, one item is Hellfire Shells (not rounds, which the Sternguard have). Now I might be missing something but I can't find a unit that has access to these? Anyone else notice these?
They're Heavy 1, blast, Poisoned 2+.
D
66089
Post by: Kangodo
Hmm, I do have one question!
One Terminator Sergeant may take the Relic-weapon from the Archangels, but does that also extend to Assault Terminators?
Their unit composition also has 4 Terminators and 1 Terminator Sergeant.
77159
Post by: Paradigm
evildrcheese wrote:On page 105 there's details of Special Issue Wargear, one item is Hellfire Shells (not rounds, which the Sternguard have). Now I might be missing something but I can't find a unit that has access to these? Anyone else notice these?
They're Heavy 1, blast, Poisoned 2+.
D
An optional shot for Scout HBs, I believe.
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
it is ... actually makes the HB kinda worthwhile at a 5 point upgrade on top of the HB cost.
52201
Post by: evildrcheese
So it is...not bad. I'm planning on running CC Scouts, so not sure I'll ever use it. It is interesting though. Thanks for clearing that up.
D Automatically Appended Next Post: Paradigm wrote: evildrcheese wrote:
Paradigm wrote:I'm going with TDA Libby or TDA Captain with TH/SS for my Archangels Detachment, and 2 Priests in HQ for my BSF Detachment at 1850, running with Pod Assualt Squads (sadly now at 9 men so the Priest can fit).
I assume then you're running termie units within the Archangels strike force? Or is it Van/Stern vets and a lone HQ deep? Can you expand on your thinking? I did consider podding assault marines as 9 man and a priest, but the mobility is too much to give up. I think if podding min squads with max special weapons is the way forward.
Yeah, Termies in the AA. Here's my rough 1850 list:
Archangels:
ML2 Librarian, TDA
10 Termies, 1 HF, 1 AC (combat squadded)
5 Sternguard, Pod or Rhino
Baal Strike Force:
2x Sang Priest
5x Death Co, JP
2x Tacticals, All The Flamers, Rhinos
2x Assaults, 9-men, 2x Meltas in each
Somewhere in there things may get swapped out for some SangGuard, a Dread or even Vanguard.
Not the best, but then it's not trying to be.
Cool. I like it, not my cup of tea if I'm honest but I like the composition. Surprised to see a complete lack of power weapons/fists on the DC. Would two slightl larger squads (7 man with a few upgrades possibly serve you better?)
This new codex is really kicking me in the balls in terms of writing a list. I just can't make something I'm happy with.
D
81767
Post by: trulsante
This is a list that I think I'll be running on a tournament in January. In Sweden we're running with something called "subcomp" that tries to balance GWs not-so-great rules. That is why I'm not running three assault squads with triple meltashots
The idea is simple: the libby goes out scouting with the bikes so that I may (or may not) safely deep strike with everything. The priest drops with the full assault squad. And having the special jump pack enables a safer deep strike and the shoot snap-shot only rule when they land is boss!
Any ideas on how I might improve the list, or play the list?
Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment)
1647p (out of 1650p)
HQ
Librarian
Auspex, Bolt Pistol, Bolt Pistol, Gallian's Staff, Psyker (ML2), Space Marine bike, The Veritas Vitae
Sanguinary Priest
Auspex, Power weapon, The Angel's Wing
Elites
Death Company Squad
6x Death Company Marine, Jump Pack, Power Fist, Power axe
Dreadnought
Twin-linked autocannon, Twin-linked autocannon
Troops
Tactical Squad
Flamer, Heavy flamer, Combi-Flamer, 9x Tactical Marine
Drop Pod
Tactical Squad
Meltagun, 4x Tactical Marine
Razorback
Tactical Squad
4x Tactical Marine
Razorback
Fast Attack
Assault Squad
4x Assault Marines, 2x Meltagun, combimelta
Drop Pod
Assault Squad
9x Assault Marines, Jump Packs, 2x Meltagun, Combimelta
Scout Bike Squadron
Astartes Grenade Launcher, 2x Scout Biker, Locator Beacon
Heavy Support
Baal Predator
Heavy bolters
Predator
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Overcharged engines
42687
Post by: Coyote81
trulsante wrote:This is a list that I think I'll be running on a tournament in January. In Sweden we're running with something called "subcomp" that tries to balance GWs not-so-great rules. That is why I'm not running three assault squads with triple meltashots
The idea is simple: the libby goes out scouting with the bikes so that I may (or may not) safely deep strike with everything. The priest drops with the full assault squad. And having the special jump pack enables a safer deep strike and the shoot snap-shot only rule when they land is boss!
Any ideas on how I might improve the list, or play the list?
Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment)
1647p (out of 1650p)
HQ
Librarian
Auspex, Bolt Pistol, Bolt Pistol, Gallian's Staff, Psyker (ML2), Space Marine bike, The Veritas Vitae
Sanguinary Priest
Auspex, Power weapon, The Angel's Wing
Elites
Death Company Squad
6x Death Company Marine, Jump Pack, Power Fist, Power axe
Dreadnought
Twin-linked autocannon, Twin-linked autocannon
Troops
Tactical Squad
Flamer, Heavy flamer, Combi-Flamer, 9x Tactical Marine
Drop Pod
Tactical Squad
Meltagun, 4x Tactical Marine
Razorback
Tactical Squad
4x Tactical Marine
Razorback
Fast Attack
Assault Squad
4x Assault Marines, 2x Meltagun, combimelta
Drop Pod
Assault Squad
9x Assault Marines, Jump Packs, 2x Meltagun, Combimelta
Scout Bike Squadron
Astartes Grenade Launcher, 2x Scout Biker, Locator Beacon
Heavy Support
Baal Predator
Heavy bolters
Predator
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Overcharged engines
Using standard CAD instead of the Baal Strike Force for a reason?
46257
Post by: th3maninblak
Ok, so breaking from competitive builds, i feel like a captain with a jump pack, fury of baal and an infernus pistol would be a solid 10/10 on the cool a$$ gunslinger scale. Reasonably effective too.
81767
Post by: trulsante
Because I value objective secure more than I value +1 on initiative. And all missions in the tourney have maelstrom either as a primary or as a secondary objective. But I'm inclined to just go screw it - let's kill everything before they can secure objectives!
11860
Post by: Martel732
trulsante wrote:Because I value objective secure more than I value +1 on initiative. And all missions in the tourney have maelstrom either as a primary or as a secondary objective. But I'm inclined to just go screw it - let's kill everything before they can secure objectives!
It's hard to get FNP on BA objective secured units, so I don't think they are that valuable. I'll take the +1 init and go for tablings.
46257
Post by: th3maninblak
Martel732 wrote:trulsante wrote:Because I value objective secure more than I value +1 on initiative. And all missions in the tourney have maelstrom either as a primary or as a secondary objective. But I'm inclined to just go screw it - let's kill everything before they can secure objectives!
It's hard to get FNP on BA objective secured units, so I don't think they are that valuable. I'll take the +1 init and go for tablings.
Im securely in this camp. Playing objective games yesterday i rarely missed objective secured. Just kill anything that would contest you.
Also im debating the usefulness of command squads. 155 points buys you 5 vets with jump packs, a champion, apothecary and 3 melta guns. Having to use the company champion kinda blows (though hes basically a free ws5 power weapon) but in the grand scheme of things thats not a lot of points for a mobile melta unit that is fairly strong in assault and decently durable.
782
Post by: DarthDiggler
I'm going to try this first. It's a hybrid of my 6th edition mech BA list with new stuff. I'll explain some of the synergy at the end.
HQ - Mephiston
HQ - librarian, level 2, jump pack
EL - Furioso, frag cannon, heavy flamer, drop pod
EL - 10 Sternguard, 4 combi-plasma, meltabomb, rhino
EL - 9 Death Company, jump packs, fist, power axe
TR - 5 Tacticals, meltagun, Lazerback
TR - 5 scouts, snipers
FA - 5 ASM, 2 meltaguns, combi-melta, drop pod
FA - 5 ASM, 2 meltaguns, combi-melta, drop pod
HV - Vindicator, over charge engines, shield
HV - Predator, side Lascannons, over charge engines
HV - Predator, side lascannons, over charge engines
Now I want the ASM to hunt vehicles and then MC's. Mephiston attaches to one of them to present a serious threat in the backfield. I'll usually drop Mephiston with ASM and the Furioso on turn one. Mephiston and the Furioso present serious threats in the backfield from the get go. To prevent the enemy from just zooming out of their deployment zone or turning around to deal with Mephiston and the Furioso, the vindicator and two predators and Sternguard will threaten them from my deployment zone. The DC and Libby will act as cleanup as they jump up the table.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Where I find Objective Secure not really worth it is when I am only taking 2 Troop Choices out of 8-12 Units.
42687
Post by: Coyote81
Anpu42 wrote:Where I find Objective Secure not really worth it is when I am only taking 2 Troop Choices out of 8-12 Units.
The new forced Blood Angel Style.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Coyote81 wrote: Anpu42 wrote:Where I find Objective Secure not really worth it is when I am only taking 2 Troop Choices out of 8-12 Units.
The new forced Blood Angel Style.
Yes, and Space Wolves too.
Since the new Space Wolf Codex came out I have yet to field a CAD and the Blood Angels Codex is not going to change this pattern at all.
81767
Post by: trulsante
You, my newly found friend, have convinced me! Baal strike force it is
66089
Post by: Kangodo
trulsante wrote:You, my newly found friend, have convinced me! Baal strike force it is
Good choice!
Trust me: When you have a Tactical Squad on that Objective with I5 and S5 on the charge, it's secured.
Objective Secured is, in my opinion, more useful for ranged and resilient armies.
It's when you have a unit that cannot win the combat, but they will surely endure a couple of turns.
77159
Post by: Paradigm
Yeah, I can't see myself ever using the CAD with BA. +1 Init is too good to pass up.
81617
Post by: each-uisge
today i did my first complete match with new codex
i was against tiranyd with 7+ MC and flying tyrant-ifex-thing (really i fail to memorise creature name x_x )
my list was standard:
- Libby lvl 2 with staff of gallian (with tactical, see below)
- priest with JP on
- sanguinary guard 9x encarmine + 1x fist
- death company 1x fist, 2x pw, 5x chainsword and pistol
- death company 1x fist, 2x pw, 5x chainsword and pistol (yes, 2 identical squad)
- 5x sniper scout, pwned on first shooting round ;_;
- Tac 1x flamer, 1x heavy flamer, 2x hand flamer, pod; squadded: flamer squad on pod (with libby) while others running on objective (did almost nothing, they failed ALL Ld test -_- )
- ASM 2x melta, 1x combi-melta, 2x bolter, pod
- ASM 2x melta, 1x combi-melta, 2x bolter, pod
- Bike 2x grav-gun 1x combi grav, 3x bolter bike + MM attack bike
i honestly gave up on 4 turn while i had only 5 SG left and he still had 3 MC on the table. We both had 5 points each from tactical objective (but i would never be able to survive 5th turn...)
on my defense i say i didn't know i would play vs 'nids, so list was not tailored against this horde of MC (plus, he rarely use too many MC)
however list was ok.
funny and effective, if i had a little more luck on grav gun and DC's saves and dind't do a couple of errors
what i lack to see useful was the librarian.
maybe sanguine powers sucks. maybe running along a 5 men flaming tac drop podded is'nt a good idea. maybe i just got unlucky with psychic roll. however, almost did nothing, neither deny the witch :\
it's a "surely must, you can't leave him home" and i did something wrong, or is no more a good choice (like it was on previous edition)??
is list a good composition or i should change something, like removing a DC and adding a big boxed metal guy (aka fragioso), a command/sternguard in lieu of assault or something like that?
(maybe also adding something on Archangel Strike Formation )
28981
Post by: kryczek
Hi All, I've eventually got a list i quite like the look of. It's CAD, 2k, no formation's or LOW. Plenty of fast mech and pod's.
We're just starting to use the maelstrom mission's and want to know if you think this could do well at them?
Here's the link if you want to add/ask anything specific.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/628605.page#7460424
Here's the quick one.
S-priest: J-pack, Valours edge,
Sanguinary guard (5): 1 x PF, 2 x axes, priest goes here,
Furioso: M-grapple, HF,
Drop pod: Deathwind,
Furioso: Frag cannon, HF,
Drop pod:
Tactical squad (10): HF, Flamer, Vet: power weapon, hand flamer,
Drop pod:
Tactical squad (10): HB, Grav, C-grav, (combat squad's)
Razor back: t/l Las-cannon's, d-blade,
Tactical squad (10): P-Cannon, Plasma gun, C-plasma, (combat squad's)
Razor back: t/l Assault cannon's, d-blade,
Assault squad (5): 2 x melta gun's, 1 x c-melta,
Drop pod: Deathwind,
Stormraven:
Baal: HB, S-bolter, d-blades,
Vindicator: S-bolter, S-sheild,
I like the heavy mech feel to it and with plenty of fast stuff it has maneuverability to get to point's.
Cheer's 
80358
Post by: Fireraven
I just played the 3 storm raven 3 tact squad formation today all I can say is blaa. None of the deep striking things got off a charge from deep striking. Because the dang storm ravens killed everything within range could have played it diffrently, but I did play Tau and almost took them off the board 1st turn. While the 3 storm ravens looks great on paper it is a huge point sink. Although coming in turn 1 doing a 0 opening deployment denied shooting and the storms really cleaned up. I might redo it with just no weapons on the tacs maybe meta bombs on sgts.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Fireraven wrote:I just played the 3 storm raven 3 tact squad formation today all I can say is blaa. None of the deep striking things got off a charge from deep striking. Because the dang storm ravens killed everything within range could have played it diffrently, but I did play Tau and almost took them off the board 1st turn. While the 3 storm ravens looks great on paper it is a huge point sink. Although coming in turn 1 doing a 0 opening deployment denied shooting and the storms really cleaned up. I might redo it with just no weapons on the tacs maybe meta bombs on sgts.
What were your intended Jump/Teleport units? Was the Tau list not equipped for dealing with a bunch of fliers?
80358
Post by: Fireraven
He had 2 sky fire units, they both got nuked, his inteceptor got nuked, with the angels jump pack relic making interceptor snap shoot on his squad. Castor dread controlled my back field and the tacs sat on 3 objectives.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Fireraven wrote:He had 2 sky fire units, they both got nuked, his inteceptor got nuked, with the angels jump pack relic making interceptor snap shoot on his squad. Castor dread controlled my back field and the tacs sat on 3 objectives.
Ah. Well, nice to know that the army that is most capable for nuking fliers can have an issue with this setup. I don't think I will ever run it though. The Angel's Wing seems to be an auto-include for anyone running a JP army.
I do have a couple thoughts. If I give the Angel's Wing to a model, then stick that model into a Stormraven, are Interceptor shots against the Stormraven fired as Snap Shots?
Also, can I stuff the Vanguard Veterans from the Angel's Wrath formation into a Stormraven?
80358
Post by: Fireraven
Angels wrath is a formation that rolls in an once so you could not embark it on the raven.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Fireraven wrote:Angels wrath is a formation that rolls in an once so you could not embark it on the raven.
I kinda figured. Still curious if the Angel's Wing would grant its Snap Shot Interceptor ability to a Stormraven if the bearer is embarked on it. I still might attach whatever I give the Angel's Wing to the Vanguard Veterans from Angel's Wrath. Ensuring they get to the ground so their attached Assault Squads get in too is pretty important.
80358
Post by: Fireraven
No reason why you could not put the relic on a priest like I did then in combining reserves attach the priest to the squad. Still only 1 roll for the whole formation.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Fireraven wrote:No reason why you could not put the relic on a priest like I did then in combining reserves attach the priest to the squad. Still only 1 roll for the whole formation.
Well, I guess I would just have to hope I get Descent of Angels for him so I can reroll basically everything in regards to Deep Strike. Since the Priest would be attached to the Vanguard Vets, they should get the benefit. Would basically give them laser-precise Deep Strike. And since the Assault Squads don't scatter if within 6", could maximize the amount of S4, AP - hits. Or...I could just get Dante and attach him and the Priest to the VVs.
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
Hey guys, I played my 2nd game with the new dex last night vs Crimson Slaughter. It was 1500 points and my list was:
Mephiston
Librarian in TDA, Gallian's Staff, Storm Shield, Vitae, ML2
10x Tacticals, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Combi-melta, Drop Pod
9x Tacticals, Melta, Combi-Melta, Rhino
5x ASM, 2x Melta, Drop Pod
Furioso, Frag Cannon, heavy Flamer, Magna Grapple, Drop Pod
9x Death Company, 1x Fist, 1x Sword, 1xAxe, Jump Packs
Tigurius
5x Scouts - 4x Sniper, 1x Missile
His list was 2 units of chosen in rhinos, a heldrake, lvl 3 sorcerer with +1 WC upgrade, Daemon Prince of Khorne, Defiler, Helbrute, 2 Nurgle Obliterators. I think that was it. Various Upgrades of chaos all around.
First thing -- Invisibility on Death Company makes them unstoppable. They killed fully half of his army, including both HQ's, while only taking 2 casualties in return. I made a mistake with mephiston, as I assaulted his obliterators thinking his sorcerer was joined with them. When i realized that wasn't the case i paid for it with Mephiston's blood, but luckily he wasn't my warlord so it was OK.
Overall I really enjoyed how the list played, and the +1 to initiative from the Baal Strike Force came into play pretty often. Now that Death Co are only WS4, i think a chaplain or Astorath are really worth adding into the force.
I won 15-4 on turn 7. Also I tabled him. Woot.
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Post by: Martel732
I think BA will be rough on many lists without a lot of firepower. Of course, that's a short list of lists in 7th.
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Post by: Crazyterran
That moment when inquisitor coteaz and his grav cent bodyguards roast the special jump pack equipped captain and his death company entourage.
Good times, good times.
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Post by: th3maninblak
Oh yeah, Coteaz gets around the angels wings. Havent thought of that.
I dunno, by using speed to our advantage we can close the gap with shooty armies fast enough to get dudes in for some knife work. Luckily we have such a huge advantage in CC that even a few guys getting across the table will do the job.
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Post by: tetrisphreak
So which detachment's Command Benefit is the best?
Baal Strike Force - +1 INI when charging
Archangels Strike Force - Re-roll Reserves, 1d6 scatter on deep strike
Flesh Tearers Strike Force - Rage on a charge roll of 10+
At first glance, I think the Baal Strike Force is the clear winner, but the unique FOC's associated with Archangels and Flesh Tearers makes them desirable as well, depending on what type of list you'd like to make.
edit -fixed the typo on flesh tearer's bonus.
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Post by: Kangodo
Probably the Baal. The FT-Strike Force needs a 10 or higher, otherwise it would have been good 
Baal > Flesh Tearers, because +1I is better than a small and unreliable chance for additional attacks.
I wouldn't want to give up the Initiative-bonus to avoid the 2 mandatory Troops.
The Archangels is something you probably only want if you're deadset on taking the Veterans, since the scatter can also be obtained through Commander Dante.
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Would it be feasible to use the TL-Assault Cannon turrets from the Baal Predator kits as Razorbacks? From a Wysiwyg standpoint?
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Post by: Paradigm
 tetrisphreak wrote:Would it be feasible to use the TL-Assault Cannon turrets from the Baal Predator kits as Razorbacks? From a Wysiwyg standpoint?
It would look cool, so I'd say it's fine. Make it clear what's what and you shouldn't have any issues.
On the subject of Detachments, I reckon I'll be taking an Archangels one for my Termies and Sternguard Vets (who don't really need the +1I thanks to Fists and shootyness respectively), while my Tacs, Assaults, Priests and DC go in a BSF.
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Paradigm wrote: tetrisphreak wrote:Would it be feasible to use the TL-Assault Cannon turrets from the Baal Predator kits as Razorbacks? From a Wysiwyg standpoint?
It would look cool, so I'd say it's fine. Make it clear what's what and you shouldn't have any issues.
On the subject of Detachments, I reckon I'll be taking an Archangels one for my Termies and Sternguard Vets (who don't really need the +1I thanks to Fists and shootyness respectively), while my Tacs, Assaults, Priests and DC go in a BSF.
With your Archangels, do you prefer a terminator Libby, Chaplain, or Captain? I'm thinking of giving Karlaen a fair shot, even though he doesn't have a storm shield. Iron Halo is something, at least.
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Post by: Kangodo
That's a good idea!
Perhaps I should get some Sternguard too, but they have so many options I wouldn't know what to take.
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Post by: Paradigm
tetrisphreak wrote: Paradigm wrote: tetrisphreak wrote:Would it be feasible to use the TL-Assault Cannon turrets from the Baal Predator kits as Razorbacks? From a Wysiwyg standpoint?
It would look cool, so I'd say it's fine. Make it clear what's what and you shouldn't have any issues.
On the subject of Detachments, I reckon I'll be taking an Archangels one for my Termies and Sternguard Vets (who don't really need the +1I thanks to Fists and shootyness respectively), while my Tacs, Assaults, Priests and DC go in a BSF.
With your Archangels, do you prefer a terminator Libby, Chaplain, or Captain? I'm thinking of giving Karlaen a fair shot, even though he doesn't have a storm shield. Iron Halo is something, at least.
It's all just theory at the moment, as I haven't got around to playing it yet, but either a TDA ML2 Librarian or a TH/ SS Captain.
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Alright, thanks for the input!
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Post by: Paradigm
Kangodo wrote:That's a good idea!
Perhaps I should get some Sternguard too, but they have so many options I wouldn't know what to take.
I run mine with a couple of Combi-meltas and that's it. Once they pop those, the Special Issue Ammo is all they need, as they have the different rounds to engage any kind of infantry really. I certainly wouldn't give up the Bolter for anything, that's an easy trap to fall into but not worth it, seeing as you already pay for the Special Ammo and it's great.
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Post by: Kangodo
And how many of those do you play?
It seems like a good idea to put them in a Drop Pod.
I often wish they had Relentless, since that would make them a beautiful squad.
Argh, my wishlist gets bigger.. It's now at Assault Terminators, Sternguard and Tactical Marines.
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Post by: tetrisphreak
I wouldn't think that more than 2 units of sternguard would be necessary. Although if you were running pure Archangels you could treat them like tacticals and run a ton of them.
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Post by: Paradigm
Kangodo wrote:And how many of those do you play?
It seems like a good idea to put them in a Drop Pod.
I often wish they had Relentless, since that would make them a beautiful squad.
Argh, my wishlist gets bigger.. It's now at Assault Terminators, Sternguard and Tactical Marines.
Typically, just one squad of 5 or 10 (depends on points) in a Pod with a pair of Combis. Point them at the thing you want dead and pull the trigger.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
What is a good loadout for the Vanguard Veterans in the Angel 's Wrath formation? Obviously running two squads of meltagun x2 for my Assault Squads (one sergeant with a Combi-Melta, the other with a Power Maul). I am thinking Storm shields on at least three of the VVs so they can survive the first turn after deep strike, but I am not sure what to do beyond that.
As of right now I am looking at doing a Relic Blade SS Sergeant, BP/SS x2, Twin LC x2. Is this a viable loadout?
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Post by: Poly Ranger
I am so unbelievably annoyed with GW. Not only did my order for Exterminatus + Deathstorm take over two weeks to arrive, but they sent me Leviathan in stead of Exterminatus AND it turns out Deathstorm is not the same book as you would get inside the deathstorm box with extra units and formations, but is instead a novel with absolutely no rules to speak of.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Poly Ranger wrote:I am so unbelievably annoyed with GW. Not only did my order for Exterminatus + Deathstorm take over two weeks to arrive, but they sent me Leviathan in stead of Exterminatus AND it turns out Deathstorm is not the same book as you would get inside the deathstorm box with extra units and formations, but is instead a novel with absolutely no rules to speak of.
cust serv dude. Apparently they are second to none.
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Post by: each-uisge
Can i put a Terminator Libby with 5x Sternguard in a pod?
this way i can use them for an Archangel Strike detachment
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Post by: kryczek
Yes. One more elite and you have an archangel strike force ready to rock.
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Post by: th3maninblak
How does everyone feel about stand alone libby? D6+2 warp charges with rerolls on 1s on psychic tests seems fine vs most armies. Of course you just dont get powers off vs things like daemons and GK
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Post by: soomemafia
The Lone Libby works just fine if you ask me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which, I believe, you just did.
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Post by: Kavish
How do you get re-rolls on 1s for psychic tests?
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Post by: Razerous
The Staff. It is a nifty piece of wargear.
Sadly, BA do not have interesting troops. Rhino Rush could be the way forwards, however.
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Post by: Kangodo
I still think the Scouts are quite awesome.
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Post by: each-uisge
kryczek wrote:Yes. One more elite and you have an archangel strike force ready to rock.
This is the idea...
Why putting 2x Fragioso and a podded sternguard in your main BSF while you can squeeze a TDA Libby and get Archangels Strike Force on the field? Automatically Appended Next Post: th3maninblak wrote:How does everyone feel about stand alone libby? D6+2 warp charges with rerolls on 1s on psychic tests seems fine vs most armies. Of course you just dont get powers off vs things like daemons and GK
or an eldar council...
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Post by: th3maninblak
Ok, so barring a few armies, the lone libby should be fine.
And BA arent about their troops. We literally have awesome stuff in every other slot, and the baal strike force detachment takes away obsec anyways.
Im also finding that 2 squads of 5 scouts with shanks and melta bombs works just fine to fill out troops
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Post by: ThatSwellFella
This is my list for 1850 points, still trying to figure out what's worth taking in a tournament, idea is to make an alphastrike which is then chained by deep striking assault marines and furioso dread, while the enemy is distracted by 15 blood crazed psychos who are being led by Carnarvon(AKA Astorath, i play flesh tearers )
HQ
Astorath the grim
Sanguinary priest with valour's edge
ELITES
Furioso dreadnought with blood talons, heavy flamer meltagun in a drop pod with locator beacon
6 Sternguard veterans with 6 combi meltas in a drop pod with locator beacon
15 death company with jump packs, 3 thunder hammers and one power fist
TROOPS
10 man tactical squad with melta and combi melta sargeant in a drop pod with locator beacon
5 scouts with bolters
FAST ATTACK
5 man assault squad with 2 meltaguns and veteran sargeant with lightning claw and combi melta(with jump packs in a deep strike)
5 man assault squad with 2 meltaguns and veteran sargeant with lightning claw and combi melta(with jump packs in a deep strike)
LORDS OF WAR
Gabriel Seth
1847 total
TACTICS drop the tactical marines (which are combatsquadded into 5 bolters and meltaa and combi melta), bolters will clear bubblewraps, after which sternguard(which are dropped together with seth and sanguinary priest) and other tacticals will hopefully blow something up. Scouts are gonna infiltrate at some objective and generally try to do such boring tasks Turn 2, or 3, 3rd drop and assault marines should come and cause some more havoc, seth would probably charge some horde unit along with he death company who are either in assault killing stuff or shot to pieces.... I have a feeling that this list is going to bring either crushing victory or defeat by turn 4 which i don't like, but if i wanted a tableflattening steamroller i would simply take iron hands.... Do you guys have any lists you had success with in tournaments?
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Post by: adamsouza
th3maninblak wrote: Im also finding that 2 squads of 5 scouts with shanks and melta bombs works just fine to fill out troops
Which, I personally find frusterating since I sold off 100+ BP/ MW scouts back when 6th Edition dropped, and they weren't as good as they are now, leaving me none to field now, when they are an attractive option.
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Post by: th3maninblak
 adamsouza wrote: th3maninblak wrote:
Im also finding that 2 squads of 5 scouts with shanks and melta bombs works just fine to fill out troops
Which, I personally find frusterating since I sold off 100+ BP/ MW scouts back when 6th Edition dropped, and they weren't as good as they are now, leaving me none to field now, when they are an attractive option.
Ouch, that sucks. Luckily i just had a guy give me 10 of them for free.
I dont know why, but i really dont like BA drop pod armies. It seems... wrong. Even though im a competitive person by nature. What do you all think are the best options for a jumper army?
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Post by: ThatSwellFella
th3maninblak wrote: adamsouza wrote: th3maninblak wrote:
Im also finding that 2 squads of 5 scouts with shanks and melta bombs works just fine to fill out troops
Which, I personally find frusterating since I sold off 100+ BP/ MW scouts back when 6th Edition dropped, and they weren't as good as they are now, leaving me none to field now, when they are an attractive option.
Ouch, that sucks. Luckily i just had a guy give me 10 of them for free.
I dont know why, but i really dont like BA drop pod armies. It seems... wrong. Even though im a competitive person by nature. What do you all think are the best options for a jumper army?
Well use combination of both pods and jump packs, like i did Automatically Appended Next Post: ThatSwellFella wrote: th3maninblak wrote: adamsouza wrote: th3maninblak wrote:
Im also finding that 2 squads of 5 scouts with shanks and melta bombs works just fine to fill out troops
Which, I personally find frusterating since I sold off 100+ BP/ MW scouts back when 6th Edition dropped, and they weren't as good as they are now, leaving me none to field now, when they are an attractive option.
Ouch, that sucks. Luckily i just had a guy give me 10 of them for free.
I dont know why, but i really dont like BA drop pod armies. It seems... wrong. Even though im a competitive person by nature. What do you all think are the best options for a jumper army?
Well use combination of both pods and jump packs, like i did
more precisely, combi melta sternguard with some CC character(i like Seth, have great success with him, even though people say he is garbage. For 155 pts he is AWESOME horde thinner, not to mention that he can instakill MEQs with his blood reaver), eventually 1 tacsquad in a drop pod, also the furioso dreadnought in a 3rd pod. Give all the pods locators, take 15man death company unit led by Astorath as a gun magnet so sternguard and tacs can shoot or charge with attached CC character. Then turn 2 or 3 melta spamming assault marines 2 5man squads will drop with jump packs and blow something else up
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Post by: astro_nomicon
Well I've gone up against a Blood Angels/ Tau Allies list a couple of times now and I can tell you that Jump Pack DC and Sang Guard have been a serious thorn in my side. Granted I'm playing a Daemons/Nids so my only real shooting is from two flyrants and it's hard to remove 3+/5+ FNP or 2+/5+ FNP with just 24 S6 shots. It has been more difficult to bring the full weight of my assault to bear with the threat of being mulched by DC if they get the charge since they are just as fast as my assault units. I think one of each Sang Guard and DC is a really good start. Dante seems practically mandatory for DoA and he makes a really good tank/beatstick for either the Sang Guard or DC. After that I'd go for MSU Assault Squads with melta or flamer. Blood Angels do special weapons drops like nobody's business now. 105-115 pts for 2 specials and a combi? Yes please. Obviously drop pods are slightly better, but it can still be accomplished with Jump Packers. I'm not entirely up to date with all of the Blood Angels formations but if there's anything that allows to you start DS'ing turn 1 it seems like it'd be worth its weight in gold.
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Post by: Talys
 astro_nomicon wrote:I'm not entirely up to date with all of the Blood Angels formations but if there's anything that allows to you start DS'ing turn 1 it seems like it'd be worth its weight in gold.
Angel's Fury gives all DSing BA units charge as long as they arrive from DS near the stormravens -- including Turn 1 (eg drop pod stuff). It's an expensive formation though; you need to take 3 stormravens and 3 full tactical squads, for a little over a thousand points.
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Post by: ninjafiredragon
Kangodo wrote:trulsante wrote:You, my newly found friend, have convinced me! Baal strike force it is
Good choice! Trust me: When you have a Tactical Squad on that Objective with I5 and S5 on the charge, it's secured..
What the hell are you talking about? I would shoot you from the distance, and not give a crap bout your CC stats.
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Post by: Kangodo
If you are shooting from a distance, Objective Secured wouldn't matter either.
They still have the same shooting stats as many Tactical Squads, just a gigantic bonus in CC.
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Post by: evildrcheese
How do people feel about that 3 squads of terminators formation in the exterminatis boom which has them all arrive together and they can run and shoot on the turn they land, might be a pretty nifty way to have a ton of terminators land in your opponents face. It is a fairly hefty points investment though.
D
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Post by: th3maninblak
evildrcheese wrote:How do people feel about that 3 squads of terminators formation in the exterminatis boom which has them all arrive together and they can run and shoot on the turn they land, might be a pretty nifty way to have a ton of terminators land in your opponents face. It is a fairly hefty points investment though.
D
Grey knights do it better and cheaper. Their terminators are 33 points as opposed to 40, and have the better weapons (incinerators, psycannon, etc).
Maybe its just me, but i dont like doing things that other armies straight up do better.
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Post by: Red Marine
Im looking for HQs that can buff. Ive been using Corbulo with success but Im wondering about librarians. My last attempts at the psychic phase left me very unhappy. The total randomness and the opponents ability to work against you now changed it from a buff or two for help, to unreliable and dangerous crap. ...but divination was real nice.
So 2 libies or should i stick with Chaps and Priests for buffmanders? Opinions? Anecdotes?
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Post by: Hollismason
I'm surprised more people aren't using the obvious advantage of the STike Force Mortalis formation and going for a Iron Clad drop pod with Assault marines list. That thing is crazy. Also, you can't get Centurions but you can get 3 Command Squads w/ 3 Graviton Guns which uh isn't terrible to drop in on someone.
Just combine it with the Angels Fury Assault your opponents on turn 1 with 3 squads of Death Company and 2 Death Company Dreadnoughts
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Post by: th3maninblak
 Red Marine wrote:Im looking for HQs that can buff. Ive been using Corbulo with success but Im wondering about librarians. My last attempts at the psychic phase left me very unhappy. The total randomness and the opponents ability to work against you now changed it from a buff or two for help, to unreliable and dangerous crap. ...but divination was real nice.
So 2 libies or should i stick with Chaps and Priests for buffmanders? Opinions? Anecdotes?
Ive definitely had some luck with lone libbys. Really if you only run 1, buff him to lvl2 with Gallien's staff for more chances to actually get psychic powers off.
As far as generic HQ choices go, the priest is the "go to" option, as there are few lists that wont benefit from him. Librarians are cheap, surprisingly fighty, but inconsistent. There will be games where he doesnt get a single power off. The captain and chaplain are both choices that, while not at all flashy, are consistently good.
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Post by: evildrcheese
th3maninblak wrote: evildrcheese wrote:How do people feel about that 3 squads of terminators formation in the exterminatis boom which has them all arrive together and they can run and shoot on the turn they land, might be a pretty nifty way to have a ton of terminators land in your opponents face. It is a fairly hefty points investment though.
D
Grey knights do it better and cheaper. Their terminators are 33 points as opposed to 40, and have the better weapons (incinerators, psycannon, etc).
Maybe its just me, but i dont like doing things that other armies straight up do better.
Whist I can see your point to a certain extent, I think it's a bit silly denying ourselves options because another dex can do it 'better'. It's like other marine armies not using rhinos just because ours are fast? I'm not saying this terminator formation is our golden goose which will propel blood angels to the top tables, just that it's an interesting option for landing 15 terminators in your opponents deployment zone and adding back field pressure, saturation of 2+ armour and with the run moves greater flexibility/less threat from blast weapons. I do wish termies were cheaper though.
Hollismason wrote:I'm surprised more people aren't using the obvious advantage of the STike Force Mortalis formation and going for a Iron Clad drop pod with Assault marines list. That thing is crazy. Also, you can't get Centurions but you can get 3 Command Squads w/ 3 Graviton Guns which uh isn't terrible to drop in on someone.
Just combine it with the Angels Fury Assault your opponents on turn 1 with 3 squads of Death Company and 2 Death Company Dreadnoughts
Where this Strike Force Mortalis formation found and what exactly is it?
D
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Strike Force Mortalis is from Shield of Baal: Exterminatus.
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Post by: evildrcheese
So where does the Ironclad come in, or do you mean a furioso? What's your thinking behind this formation that males it so great, I can actually remember which on it is, is it the Death Company one?
Grav command squads are pretty interesting, but if you're dropping in you won't be benefiting from max shots, and after you've dropped you'll either take casulties, reducing effectiveness for future shooting or you opponent will just move out of range...
D
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