Galas wrote:
The number of people saying that Ultramarines, that are clearly Roman, are the "Greeks" Space Marines made me stir in my chair!
Is like saying that Chinese, Japanese and Korean are the same. No, they aren't!

So, the Ultramarines in the Horus Heresy having Greek sounding names (Eikos Lamiad, Phraetus Auguston, Lyros Sydance), having a Tetrarchy of officers (deriving from the Greek tetra-), and in their old Index Astartes article, Macragge's culture was compared to Spartan culture, with mandatory military camps for children (which I believe is still in place) isn't Greek enough? Coupled with their general architecture and aesthetic, plus the actual Omega symbol on their armour, the Greek influence is visible.

I'm not denying that they're also influenced by the Romans, but they certainly have Greek themes too. They're always best described as Greco-Roman.

When people don't want female space marines, they site the fluff, never usually screaming about the outcome or anything. People can be angry, but not to the extent usually described by people who want female space marines.

Also, lets get some male SOB.

Please noooooooooo

I'm already on the fence on true scale ultramarines

 Stevefamine wrote:
Please noooooooooo

I'm already on the fence on true scale ultramarines

On the bright side at least we now know for certain that they didn't use NuMarines to shoehorn female marines into the fluff

 Luciferian wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
Please noooooooooo

I'm already on the fence on true scale ultramarines

On the bright side at least we now know for certain that they didn't use NuMarines to shoehorn female marines into the fluff

Well, we still don't know all the facts yet. However, given what they've said about them being descended from the same geneseed, that would imply that FemPriMarines aren't going to be a thing.

The modeling variety argument is good if you apply that to getting male Sororitas as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The modeling variety argument is good if you apply that to getting male Sororitas as well.

Thus, you are in favor of Primaris Space Marine women?

I did use the modeling variety argument and was also in favor of creating a ''male Sisters of Battle'' (you would have to change the name of the faction or create a subfaction due to the gendered name).

Was it just a pedentic question?

epronovost wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The modeling variety argument is good if you apply that to getting male Sororitas as well.

Thus, you are in favor of Primaris Space Marine women?

I did use the modeling variety argument and was also in favor of creating a ''male Sisters of Battle'' (you would have to change the name of the faction or create a subfaction due to the gendered name).

Was it just a pedentic question?

I think it was a sarcastic one.

Some Sob players might accept males in order to get actual plastic sisters of battle.

I do wonder how much I can troll local SW players by making a force of female primaris marines decened from their genestock...the Wolf Sistern!

 Souleater wrote:
Some Sob players might accept males in order to get actual plastic sisters of battle.

I do wonder how much I can troll local SW players by making a force of female primaris marines decened from their genestock...the Wolf Sistern!

Or we could not have Male SoB because redacting the whole Age of Apostasy would be stupid.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

epronovost wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The modeling variety argument is good if you apply that to getting male Sororitas as well.

Thus, you are in favor of Primaris Space Marine women?

I did use the modeling variety argument and was also in favor of creating a ''male Sisters of Battle'' (you would have to change the name of the faction or create a subfaction due to the gendered name).

Was it just a pedentic question?

I think it was a sarcastic one.

Half and half. It involves messing with fluff for two different armies.

Did you know there's still people upset about the Necron lore change? Now multiply that 10× for the Space Marine reaction. For the same reason I don't want male Sisters Of Battle.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Souleater wrote:
Some Sob players might accept males in order to get actual plastic sisters of battle.

I do wonder how much I can troll local SW players by making a force of female primaris marines decened from their genestock...the Wolf Sistern!

Or we could not have Male SoB because redacting the whole Age of Apostasy would be stupid.

I'm not talking about a complete retcon.

GW have decided to move the story forward. New Imperial Tech. The return of Gulliman. Huge warp chasm just cut the Empire in half! All hands to the pumps, I say. Girlyman declares that the Church have proved themselves faithful since that whole messy AoA thing. The Decree Passive is lifted!

I mean male nuns...monks if you will would be crazy, of course. But....wow...I could have a field day with Valkyries! "Stand back little brother, we'll handle this!" Oh, blessed am I to have such an iron control of my bladder else I mayst have already soiled myself.

 Souleater wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Souleater wrote:
Some Sob players might accept males in order to get actual plastic sisters of battle.

I do wonder how much I can troll local SW players by making a force of female primaris marines decened from their genestock...the Wolf Sistern!

Or we could not have Male SoB because redacting the whole Age of Apostasy would be stupid.

I'm not talking about a complete retcon.

GW have decided to move the story forward. New Imperial Tech. The return of Gulliman. Huge warp chasm just cut the Empire in half! All hands to the pumps, I say. Girlyman declares that the Church have proved themselves faithful since that whole messy AoA thing. The Decree Passive is lifted!

I mean male nuns...monks if you will would be crazy, of course. But....wow...I could have a field day with Valkyries! "Stand back little brother, we'll handle this!" Oh, blessed am I to have such an iron control of my bladder else I mayst have already soiled myself.

Can you not have Valkyries in the form of Seraphim? I mean, I recon Sisters could use a jump pack squad with some more melee weapons (storm shields and axes/spears?) but why do they need to be Space Marines to be Valkyries?

And how would that tease my friendly neighborhood Space Wolves?

You're talking to a guy who added a Corrupted Wolf Priest Biker to his Chaos Marines back in 3rd Edition because the *only* thing that guy ever died to in all the battles I saw him take part in...were my Daemonettes!

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
So, the point of increasing gender representation in 40K is not to further some feminist agenda, it's to make the game appeal more to female gamers.

I find this argument considerably less convincing than the others presented so far, think of the marketing value doesn't do it for me. If anything it's a wonderful argument as it why they should make something other than marines on a regular basis, but makes near zero sense when they have a massive franchise based on a given iconic appearance that you want them to change on the theory it'll appeal to more people.

Also as someone who has a number of lady sports fan family members. Large muscle bound men are rarely something that turns women off of a subject unless they're being actively annoying at the time, and some times not even then. Turn up the ass slapping and turn the power armor into spandex and you might see a gain, but I don't think that would be well received by the community either. Most of it anyway. I'd be interested in hearing from people who had their interest flame out on them before I'd make many assumptions, to my knowledge it's generally people's behavior or the absolute horror of the fluff that do it, but those are just a pile of anecdotes on my part.

 Souleater wrote:
And how would that tease my friendly neighborhood Space Wolves?

You're talking to a guy who added a Corrupted Wolf Priest Biker to his Chaos Marines back in 3rd Edition because the *only* thing that guy ever died to in all the battles I saw him take part in...were my Daemonettes!

That's absolutely fluffy, and a very cool nod to continuity.

However, I think it's absolutely possible for a unit of Seraphim, in a minor Order of Sororitas working with the Space Wolves, to have that competitive attitude against the Wolves. They can tease them just as well as if they were Sisters or not.

Sorry, friendly rivalry with the Space Wolves is reserved for the Dark Angels. Wrasslin' and all.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Half and half. It involves messing with fluff for two different armies.

Did you know there's still people upset about the Necron lore change? Now multiply that 10× for the Space Marine reaction. For the same reason I don't want male Sisters Of Battle.

Just to be sure we are on the same page, we aren't talking about changing the past fluff. We are talking about Primaris Space Marine women. All Primarchs and all Space Marine before were all men. The reason there wasn't Space Marine women earlier still stands. Now, we just have a new sort of Space Marine that can come in two gender.

That's nowhere near the level change imposed on Necron Players from souless machine ruled by Star Gods to soul animated machine that imprisonned Star Gods. That's a complete reversal of a trope. Supreme, genitacally enhance monastic knightly warrior men to Supreme, genitacally enhance monastic knightly warrior men and women, you'll have to admit is a much smaller change in term of trope. In fact, it's the same trope, we just added the squadette in there.

I'd be happy with female marines. Was always a daft bit of fluff that some fans seem to be unquestionably attached to. I've always had a problem with the slavish obsession some people have with 'preserving the canon', but that's a rant for another thread...

 Luciferian wrote:
Sorry, friendly rivalry with the Space Wolves is reserved for the Dark Angels. Wrasslin' and all.

Did you really consider Dark Angels vs Space Wolves friendly rivalry?!

Plus, the Valkyrie Sisters of Battle sounds awesome. I know what to do when 40k releases plastic SOB in the future. I have already female models with fur capes in the SoS!

 Galas wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:
Sorry, friendly rivalry with the Space Wolves is reserved for the Dark Angels. Wrasslin' and all.

Did you really consider Dark Angels vs Space Wolves friendly rivalry?!

Plus, the Valkyrie Sisters of Battle sounds awesome. I know what to do when 40k releases plastic SOB in the future. I have already female models with fur capes in the SoS!

They could be from the Ermine Mantle Minor Order. They were operating close to Cadia and the last Grand Abbess of the Sisterhood was from their Order (she disapeered while on pilgrimage to the birthworld of the Sisterhood 250 years).

 nudibranch wrote:
I'd be happy with female marines. Was always a daft bit of fluff that some fans seem to be unquestionably attached to. I've always had a problem with the slavish obsession some people have with 'preserving the canon', but that's a rant for another thread...

Well, I've always had a problem with the slavish obsession some people have with subverting the canon.

Especially when the reasons most typically given are "Because I want..."

"...to troll people invested in their current image and identity."

"...to turn Space Marines into a political bludgeon."

"...to change the image and identity of Space Marines to reflect me."

"...just because."

And as of this thread I've only ever seen one person give a convincing argument about how it could be done in a thematically consistent way without completely subverting the trope of the Space Marine.

But indeed, that is a rant for another thread.

 Luciferian wrote:

 nudibranch wrote:
I'd be happy with female marines. Was always a daft bit of fluff that some fans seem to be unquestionably attached to. I've always had a problem with the slavish obsession some people have with 'preserving the canon', but that's a rant for another thread...

Well, I've always had a problem with the slavish obsession some people have with subverting the canon.

Especially when the reasons most typically given are "Because I want..."

"...to troll people invested in their current image and identity."

"...to turn Space Marines into a political bludgeon."

"...to change the image and identity of Space Marines to reflect me."

"...just because."

And as of this thread I've only ever seen one person give a convincing argument about how it could be done in a thematically consistent way without completely subverting the trope of the Space Marine.

But indeed, that is a rant for another thread.

Ofcourse that's the case, I feel including more diversity and positive portrayals of underprivileged folks to be good for society, and don't pretend that your wish to adhere to the status quo is apolitical. Everyone has an agenda, myself and yourself included and by opposing my agenda you're pushing your own.

INDEED.

AND THAT'S WHY THESE THREADS NEVER LAST LONG OR END WELL.

LIKE...

...THIS ONE.