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Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/16 21:40:29


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Not that I have seen.


This is my main gripe about the game.

Two factions.

TWO.

That's... not going to hold interest for long.

Also, still not keen on calling extra models 'expansions'. Sounds very board-gamish and not really strategy gamish.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/16 21:45:47


Post by: EnTyme


You know, I've been trying figure out what's been bothering me about FFG's marketing for the game, and I think you just nailed it, Doritos. It's a new kit, not an expansion. "Expansion" just has that context of needing to tack it on to something else in order for it to function. FFG's boardgame roots showing through, I guess. I do like that AT-ST, though. Even if this game doesn't take off in my area (and based on how rare X-wing has become around here lately, it might not), I may end up getting one of those for my shelf. I like the vehicles, but I just can't really get excited about the troops.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/16 21:50:59


Post by: Yodhrin


First - it's the Empire and the Rebellion, even after two additional trilogies those are still the two factions the vast majority of Star Wars fans care about, so of course they're FFG's opening lineup.

Second - they're called expansions because they're expansions. This is why I don't like FFG's business model and why I won't be using these models to play Legion - the miniatures as basically fancy Meeples, what you're paying for are the *cards*. X-Wing, and Legion, are basically wargame-CCG hybrids.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/16 21:51:10


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 EnTyme wrote:
You know, I've been trying figure out what's been bothering me about FFG's marketing for the game, and I think you just nailed it, Doritos. It's a new kit, not an expansion. "Expansion" just has that context of needing to tack it on to something else in order for it to function. FFG's boardgame roots showing through, I guess. I do like that AT-ST, though. Even if this game doesn't take off in my area (and based on how rare X-wing has become around here lately, it might not), I may end up getting one of those for my shelf. I like the vehicles, but I just can't really get excited about the troops.


Correct. "Expansion", to me implies something else. Like new rules, new ways to play the game, something to expand it beyond a few units.

It makes me think 'board game', where you get more pieces and map bits and new rules to play the game with. New missions, etc.




Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/16 22:01:26


Post by: Gimgamgoo


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Not that I have seen.


This is my main gripe about the game.

Two factions.

TWO.

That's... not going to hold interest for long.

Also, still not keen on calling extra models 'expansions'. Sounds very board-gamish and not really strategy gamish.


Ah the old 'two factions' argument made against a new game, no doubt by a GW fan.
If it bothers people so much, just paint the Stormtroopers different colours.

Mind you, the two factions have done ok for the films since 1977.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/16 22:21:03


Post by: warboss


I suspect they'll eventually have a scum faction as well. If it were most other IPs then I'd echo the sentiment but I don't think it'll be an issue for Star Wars miniatures in the short term. Just look at X-wing as a recent example as it was frequently sold out in the US for years despite only having two factions. Long term though I'd expect them to come out with others beyond just scum based on different eras like clone wars separatists and mandalorians.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/16 22:27:58


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Ah the old 'two factions' argument made against a new game, no doubt by a GW fan.


Yes, on a forum dedicated primarily to a game created by GW. Wow, it's like stumbling across an Asian guy in China. So weird.

And GW isn't the only game with more than two factions. Infinity, Warmahordes, etc.- all of those have multiple factions.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
If it bothers people so much, just paint the Stormtroopers different colours.


"If you want to drive a Ferrari, just write 'Ferrari' on your Fiat."

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Mind you, the two factions have done ok for the films since 1977.


A film is not a wargame.

That film has a very rich expanded universe that has generated a lot of interest since the last movie of that trilogy dropped in 1983.

Some of us also have more than one friend or partner that we play games with. I'm sure you can at least imagine what this is like.

I swear, this is why I secretly loathe Star Wars game products. I want to play, I want to enjoy it- but the defenders of the franchise can be outright hostile when defending this franchise. I used to think Trekkies were bad, but Star Wars fandoms are much more toxic.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 00:03:27


Post by: Taarnak


I am not a fan of BoW but that AT-AT terrain board on the previous page is pretty awesome. I have one of those myself and I am seriously considering using it in a similar fashion to what they have done.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 00:34:16


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I'll just point out that it's not a standard Kenner At-AT but something bigger (they mentioned it in one of the recent weekenders) in case you didn't know


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 00:57:18


Post by: Taarnak


They mention it's a newer one than the vintage Kenner one in the video posted here. Based on the size of it compared to the figures it might be the 2010 Hasbro version that I have. If not, it's pretty close in size.

I need to check and see if the one I have wouldn't better represent an AT-ACT from Rogue One at 1/48th scale. I believe they were a bit bigger than standard AT-ATs.

Either way, it's a damn nice terrain piece and an idea worth stealing.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 01:10:10


Post by: Yodhrin


Are there any affordable AT-AT models around at the moment that would be in the right scale, or do you pretty much have to hunt around for older ones?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 01:17:33


Post by: Taarnak


 Yodhrin wrote:
Are there any affordable AT-AT models around at the moment that would be in the right scale, or do you pretty much have to hunt around for older ones?

Older ones from what I've found. The 2010 Hasbro AT-AT is close to 1/48th scale, as I mentioned above.

None of them are cheap, however...


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 01:56:58


Post by: angel of death 007


 Kriswall wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
They look about the same/ a tiny bit better in terms of detail as minis in Mansions of Madness 2nd ed(which is done by FFG as well). And as much as I love MoM2ed, it's not a high praise. Mantic is ahead of the game compared to SW legion, the way I see it.
Imho, FFG are trying to make SW legion as a game suitable for both: war gamers and boardgamers. And it seems to me, CMON are far ahead in this nieche with more impressive minis (for wargamers) and no assembly required (for boardgamers)
Due to the nature of board gaming models, their quality is almost always worse compared to the evergrowing standards of the wargaming world (wyrd, GW, Mierce, Corvus Beli, CMON, even PP). And SW legion quality looks pretty much "boardgame" to me.


I own all of the Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition stuff and have seen the Legion models up close and personal at Gencon. The detail on the Legion minis is much, much better than the MoM minis. I also have a fair amount of Mantic stuff. I would characterize Mantic as below Legion quality. Mantic may have changed, but the models I've purchased have always been disappointing. Maybe it's the scale. Mantic stuff is generally smaller, so it holds less detail.

My opinion, having held the models at Gencon, is that they're below GW's newer stuff in quality, but well above board game level. I think people just need to get their hands on the models and see the quality for themselves.

34 days and counting.


Ya but considering the size of the AT ST it might not be GW newer stuff quality but it is no where near GW newer stuff prices either.... considering their comparables are at the $150 mark or more. I think I am willing to accept a slightly sub GW quality at a 1/3 the cost of GW pricing.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 02:08:06


Post by: Kenshinzo 7


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Ah the old 'two factions' argument made against a new game, no doubt by a GW fan.


Yes, on a forum dedicated primarily to a game created by GW. Wow, it's like stumbling across an Asian guy in China. So weird.

And GW isn't the only game with more than two factions. Infinity, Warmahordes, etc.- all of those have multiple factions.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
If it bothers people so much, just paint the Stormtroopers different colours.


"If you want to drive a Ferrari, just write 'Ferrari' on your Fiat."

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Mind you, the two factions have done ok for the films since 1977.


A film is not a wargame.

That film has a very rich expanded universe that has generated a lot of interest since the last movie of that trilogy dropped in 1983.

Some of us also have more than one friend or partner that we play games with. I'm sure you can at least imagine what this is like.

I swear, this is why I secretly loathe Star Wars game products. I want to play, I want to enjoy it- but the defenders of the franchise can be outright hostile when defending this franchise. I used to think Trekkies were bad, but Star Wars fandoms are much more toxic.




So you think Games Workshop's fandom isn't just as toxic? All fandoms have toxicity, especially when they feel threatened by a rival.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 07:37:19


Post by: Thargrim


https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/269955-learn-to-play-rules-and-demo-pictures/

basic rules have more or less been posted in full now (and actually legible this time), I can't say how long these will remain up but worth looking at if you don't really know how the game works yet.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 07:43:18


Post by: Manchu


Quick reminder, it is OK to post criticisms about a miniatures gaming product line. That's squarely within the wheelhouse of a miniatures gaming discussion forum.

That said, it's always worth remembering we're only discussing toys here, after all - keep that in mind when deciding which criticisms merit what kind of response, if any.

Thanks!


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 09:28:38


Post by: Pacific


JimmyWolf87 wrote:
I might get a set of Stormtroopers just to check them out but I'm really struggling to summon the interest I want to have.


There is definitely other stuff about that I'm more excited to see released (the new Fallout game for example). That being said, I can't see myself not getting a set of Stormtroopers to paint up, just because it's something I've always wanted to see.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 16:46:42


Post by: angel of death 007


 Pacific wrote:
JimmyWolf87 wrote:
I might get a set of Stormtroopers just to check them out but I'm really struggling to summon the interest I want to have.


There is definitely other stuff about that I'm more excited to see released (the new Fallout game for example). That being said, I can't see myself not getting a set of Stormtroopers to paint up, just because it's something I've always wanted to see.


I was excited about the new Fallout game until they announced they weren't doing a kickstarter and there all in pre order price was rediculous. (I had 300-$400 ready to spend on an all in kickstarter but when the all in was over a grand it pushed me out.) I did preorder the base game but at GW prices I will find other models for gameplay so I got to save some money there only costing around $70 for the base game which I rarely do. Fallout had my interest but now it is fully vested in Legion and the new Batman game that will be on kickstarter soon. Very expensive year indeed but it is all about finding the best bang for your buck and I think Batman might see my $. At least for 1st quarter all in around $300ish (hoping) expenditure.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 17:28:53


Post by: cerealkiller195


I'm not sure how i feel about Legion yet. On one hand... STAR WARS mass combat game with my beloved Storm Troopers. On the other hand so far only two factions and unlike Xwing that really came into the light with the introduction of scum I still can't see 'scum' being a mass combat army. I would need to see either another army added on or a few more options to see a little variety in lists before I decide if I will truly commit or not.

As far as the scale as a wargamer just about everything gets compared to GW. They had a scale shot of the model vs whatever monstrosity GW put out and it's slightly taller and at a fraction of the cost. Yes you may say it lacks certain detail to it (it doesn't have the GW skulls on it) but it is functional. Also lets be honest there are people who just won't paint it anyway or simply see it as a playing piece and nothing more.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 18:41:31


Post by: warboss


cerealkiller195 wrote:
I'm not sure how i feel about Legion yet. On one hand... STAR WARS mass combat game with my beloved Storm Troopers.


I'm not sure it properly qualifies as a mass battle game yet as it feels like it's a purposeful half step inbetween that and skirmish games. Skirmish games starters at 28mm typically have 5-10 models per side with maybe one larger showpiece fig whereas mass battle games typically have 20-40 per side with either a unit of larger figs and/or a much larger one. It feels like this is at the onset smack dab in the middle both in packaging and rules.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/17 19:24:18


Post by: Kovnik Obama


 warboss wrote:
I suspect they'll eventually have a scum faction as well. If it were most other IPs then I'd echo the sentiment but I don't think it'll be an issue for Star Wars miniatures in the short term. Just look at X-wing as a recent example as it was frequently sold out in the US for years despite only having two factions. Long term though I'd expect them to come out with others beyond just scum based on different eras like clone wars separatists and mandalorians.


In a conversation with a friend, one of the devs confirmed that both a Scum and a Droid faction would come out by mid 2019.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 02:13:40


Post by: Vertrucio


 warboss wrote:
cerealkiller195 wrote:
I'm not sure how i feel about Legion yet. On one hand... STAR WARS mass combat game with my beloved Storm Troopers.


I'm not sure it properly qualifies as a mass battle game yet as it feels like it's a purposeful half step inbetween that and skirmish games. Skirmish games starters at 28mm typically have 5-10 models per side with maybe one larger showpiece fig whereas mass battle games typically have 20-40 per side with either a unit of larger figs and/or a much larger one. It feels like this is at the onset smack dab in the middle both in packaging and rules.


This is definitely more of a platoon scale game with some company support thrown in.

In order to make the most of their SW miniature game license, now that they can't do as many board games for full profit due to Hasbro, they may actually try making a mass battle version. They already have the tiny vehicles and buildings sculpted for Rebellion and Armada.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 05:58:36


Post by: Taarnak





Don't know if it has been posted already, but this video has decent close ups of the melted plastic, and some size comparisons. Size comparisons starting around the 19 minute mark.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 06:38:49


Post by: Manchu


/lots of thread edits/

Feel free to disgree with each other's opinions about this product line. But no more back and forth on who is being hostile/toxic. The hostility/toxicity here consists solely of calling one another hostile/toxic. So: end of. Thanks!


As to these figs. Despite being really excited at first, I'm not getting into Legion. I know I would overlook all reservations about FFG miniatures if I was more excited about SW. But my current interest in SW is at historic lows and maybe that is influencing my opinion. But I am really reminded of metal figs here, something like Knight Miniatures - not just because they are multi-part static poses but given the way some things seem to fit well and others don't.

FFG's path is selling miniatures to people who aren't primarily miniatures gamers whereas, I think, GW is focusing on making stuff that really appeals to the hobbyist impulse. For me, I'm pulling to the latter rather than the former.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:05:26


Post by: Don Savik


As a fan of the rebel alliance I love some of the kits they have (dat t-47 airspeeder......awww yea) and a fan of FFG (I own a lot of xwing and armada) I gotta say.......pass.

I get why they're so opposed to standard dice and tape measures, they wan't everything fresh out of the box to be playable with nothing else, but seriously I can't take it any more with all these special dice for every single special game. And don't even get me started on the cards. So what if a good card for scout troopers is an equipment card from a rebel kit? Do you pay 45 dollars for the kit just for one card, or buy it on ebay for 6 bucks (one piece of 1x2" cardboard). Its heinous for a miniatures game to be set up that way.

I feel like they missed an opportunity for it to be more freeform as less restricting than it is, but as it stands they made a weird side-grade to Star Wars Assault, with less opportunities for unique models. If I got these models it would be as a display piece or some kind of diorama idk.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:14:54


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Don Savik wrote:
I get why they're so opposed to standard dice and tape measures, they wan't everything fresh out of the box to be playable with nothing else, but seriously I can't take it any more with all these special dice for every single special game. And don't even get me started on the cards...


That's another issue I have. I have bad luck with cards. Don't ask me why, but they tend to go missing. Or get damaged, no matter how hard I try.

And dice, too. I don't want dice special-made for one game. It just bothers me.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:21:25


Post by: Peregrine


 Don Savik wrote:
So what if a good card for scout troopers is an equipment card from a rebel kit?


Unless you're playing in sanctioned tournaments you just print off a list from the squad builder, like people do in every other FFG Star Wars game. The cards are just a reference for the rules with no gameplay purpose (and a proof of purchase in FFG events), any other printed reference does the job just as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
And dice, too. I don't want dice special-made for one game. It just bothers me.


That's an awfully narrow way of looking at things. Custom dice open up new mechanics that just don't work very well with standard dice. It's much easier to have custom dice with the appropriate dice than to remember if a 4 on a D6 is supposed to be a focus or a hit for this particular unit, when it might be the opposite for some other unit.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:25:22


Post by: Manchu


FFG is driving the whole market toward component-heavier games, creating a wider gap between "mainstream" brands and the traditional diorama-esque approach. When X-Wing came out, I was all for tokens and cards and proprietary dice but the novelty has faded. There's something clean about just dice (especially D6s) and minis, although some token content is certainly fine. Legion doesn't seem especially token heavy (for FFG) but yeah the card thing is a big minus for a lot of people.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:27:15


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Peregrine wrote:
That's an awfully narrow way of looking at things. Custom dice open up new mechanics that just don't work very well with standard dice. It's much easier to have custom dice with the appropriate dice than to remember if a 4 on a D6 is supposed to be a focus or a hit for this particular unit, when it might be the opposite for some other unit.


So, perspective-

During the summer, I tend to spend a month (more or less) on vacation. Also, I tend to take my board games on deployments. REALLY easy to lose things like that, when you're moving around. And so many games don't have replacement dice, so it sucks.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:30:08


Post by: Peregrine


 Manchu wrote:
There's something clean about just dice (especially D6s) and minis, although some token content is certainly fine.


IMO it's the exact opposite. Tokens in X-Wing are just physical notes of things that you'd have to remember in other games. Instead of having to remember that you cast the +1 BS buff on a particular unit you put a token on the unit, much like lots of 40k players already do with wound counters/status tokens/etc. That's a cleaner mechanic than having the same kind of rules but with no physical means of tracking them. And same thing with the dice. Having dice with symbols representing the outcomes directly is cleaner than rolling D6s for the same mechanic and having to look up results on a table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
And so many games don't have replacement dice, so it sucks.


This is unfortunate, but every FFG Star Wars game has replacement dice for sale. If you lose the special dice you can buy a new set of them just like buying replacement D6s.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:32:27


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Peregrine wrote:
This is unfortunate, but every FFG Star Wars game has replacement dice for sale. If you lose the special dice you can buy a new set of them just like buying replacement D6s.


I would hope so. If other factions and time periods are introduced, that is.

But it's also very easy to reach into my massive dice bag or go get some Bicycle dice.

Also, fun fact- my D&D Dice got taken by Qatari police.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:38:42


Post by: Manchu


Big concern with proprietary dice is stock. Extra dice packs sometimes go out of stock for long stretches and FFG core sets usually (always?) have too few dice. Bigger issue: when the game is OOP or, as likely, FFG stops supporting them for 2-3 years before they formally go OOP (and FFG can be ruthless about letting games wither on the vine) the extra dice packs dry up very fast, maybe because the stock was always thin.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:41:49


Post by: Peregrine


 Manchu wrote:
Big concern with proprietary dice is stock. Extra dice packs sometimes go out of stock for long stretches and FFG core sets usually (always?) have too few dice. Bigger issue: when the game is OOP or, as likely, FFG stops supporting them for 2-3 years before they formally go OOP (and FFG can be ruthless about letting games wither on the vine) the extra dice packs dry up very fast, maybe because the stock was always thin.


To be fair, if a game is performing so poorly that FFG drops production entirely there probably aren't too many people being hurt by the lack of supply. What limited player base that remains can be served by third-party sellers, like the people making fancy X-Wing dice for people who want something that looks cool.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 07:45:06


Post by: Manchu


 Peregrine wrote:
IMO it's the exact opposite.
I think we're using "clean" in different ways. I am talking about a clean look while you seem to be talking about clean mechanical interactions. So the far-end version of what I'm saying is the folks (usually self-defined grognards) who brook no tokens. They don't want gameyness apparent on the face of the scene. This is kind of a frustrated film director approach. And these guys don't care too much about tight rulesets that test relative player skill. I am not far-end on that spectrum but I find myself leaning in their direction.
 Peregrine wrote:
To be fair, if a game is performing so poorly that FFG drops production entirely there probably aren't too many people being hurt by the lack of supply. What limited player base that remains can be served by third-party sellers, like the people making fancy X-Wing dice for people who want something that looks cool.
Third parties tend to cater to the games that are the most popular (e.g., X-Wing), in which FFG's stock problems are more about high demand than lack of support. So the game I specifically had in mind is Battlelore 2E. I started buying before the axe officially dropped and the cheapest way to get dice was additional core sets (!) although prices have calmed now.

My practice is to always buy additional dice packs at the outset when buying into any FFG line with proprietary dice. But until there is a L5R minis game I think my wallet is safe on this score, generally.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 08:56:49


Post by: Albertorius


 Manchu wrote:
My practice is to always buy additional dice packs at the outset when buying into any FFG line with proprietary dice. But until there is a L5R minis game I think my wallet is safe on this score, generally.


Save up, just in case


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 09:50:07


Post by: Yodhrin


 Peregrine wrote:


This is unfortunate, but every FFG Star Wars game has replacement dice for sale. If you lose the special dice you can buy a new set of them just like buying replacement D6s.


Except for the fact you can buy a literal dice-sack of D6s for the price of 6 FFG super-super-snowflake dice. Like everything else with FFG's game/business model, the bespoke stuff would be a lot more tolerable if it wasn't priced like a deliberate attempt to gouge people.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 11:11:05


Post by: SeanDrake


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:


This is unfortunate, but every FFG Star Wars game has replacement dice for sale. If you lose the special dice you can buy a new set of them just like buying replacement D6s.


Except for the fact you can buy a literal dice-sack of D6s for the price of 6 FFG super-super-snowflake dice. Like everything else with FFG's game/business model, the bespoke stuff would be a lot more tolerable if it wasn't priced like a deliberate attempt to gouge people.


I picked up the star wars dice app for a couple of quid, includes the Rpg, armarda and x wing dice and I guess they will add legions.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 11:25:48


Post by: Yodhrin


SeanDrake wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:


This is unfortunate, but every FFG Star Wars game has replacement dice for sale. If you lose the special dice you can buy a new set of them just like buying replacement D6s.


Except for the fact you can buy a literal dice-sack of D6s for the price of 6 FFG super-super-snowflake dice. Like everything else with FFG's game/business model, the bespoke stuff would be a lot more tolerable if it wasn't priced like a deliberate attempt to gouge people.


I picked up the star wars dice app for a couple of quid, includes the Rpg, armarda and x wing dice and I guess they will add legions.


Which is predicated on the idea that you A: have a device capable of running the app(either with you when you play, or at all) and B: like using apps - personally I play tabletop games to escape from devices, everything else in life these days is devices and sodding apps.

It also doesn't negate the simple fact that for the 8-10 quid FFG want for a pack of six proprietary dice, you can buy an actual bag of fifty D6s of equivalent quality. There's no justification for that, it's just naked, unashamed greed.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 11:52:37


Post by: Peregrine


Call it greed if you like, but it's still just $10. You're probably spending that much on lunch when you go out to play some games, so I can't really feel too much outrage about the price.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 17:17:31


Post by: Vertrucio





Full 800 point game.

As for the usual thread pollution. It's business. The dice may be on the higher scale, but look at GW's necromunda and bloodbowl dice and it's the same pricing scheme.

Necromunda dice - 8 dice at $12.50 retail
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/gw-300-02.html

SW Legion dice - 15 dice for $14.95 retail
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/ffgswl02.html

Dice are also incredibly easy to manufacture. There won't be stock issues from lack of production, but rather failure to order.

All this reads like way too much, "The Lady Doth Protest Too Much."


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 19:37:55


Post by: Davor


Are we complaining about a few bucks now? Like $2-$5? Wow what happened to the days when we use to complain about something being $20-$50 over priced from GW now we are talking about five bucks or less.

How have the times changed on Dakka. As Peregrine said, we mostly spend that money on lunch when in which case would be cheaper to make at home than buying out. I guess if someone has to complain that something is $5 overpriced then they are in the wrong hobby or playing the wrong game.

So again what are we complaining about?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 20:10:15


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


Davor wrote:
...As Peregrine said, we mostly spend that money on lunch...


If it's normal to send that kind of money on lunch, I see why the FLGS is populated by several 'rotund' individuals.

The idea isn't that they 'cost too much'. But hypothetically...

Go to the gaming club for some 40k, and realize I've lost my dice or left them at home or something. I go buy some more at the local gaming store- even Wal-Mart has Bicycle dice for a couple of bucks.

I go to play D&D on a whim with some friends. I left my dice across town. Well, I can swing by any gaming store- even some basic bookstores- and grab some dice.

I go to play 'Legion'. I left my dice. Unless my opponent wants to share, I've got to track down these special dice or order them.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 21:43:17


Post by: zend


I really like the models, but the dice and card systems are off putting so I'm not likely to ever play. I don't mind purchasing proprietary dice, for like Bolt Action or whatever, but I hate it when games use color coded tiers for their dice.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 21:54:03


Post by: Pacific


That must make your choice of games you can play rather limiting.. !

It's another weapon in the games designer's arsenal, I've lost track of the number of games that I've played that employ either special dice, cards or whatever.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 22:11:17


Post by: Peregrine


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
If it's normal to send that kind of money on lunch, I see why the FLGS is populated by several 'rotund' individuals.


Good to see more insults towards other people. But no, $10 for lunch does not mean eating excessively, it just means getting something at least a step up from dollar menu hamburgers. It's very easy to hit the $5-10 range with a small and relatively healthy meal.

I go to play 'Legion'. I left my dice. Unless my opponent wants to share, I've got to track down these special dice or order them.


And, unless the game is a complete failure (in which case you probably aren't playing it anyway), that tracking down probably consists of walking over to the FFG shelf and taking a pack of dice up to the register. Plus, it's not like sharing dice is actually a huge burden. Unless your opponent is TFG they'll let you share their dice in that situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 zend wrote:
but I hate it when games use color coded tiers for their dice.


Why? As Pacific said, it's a very useful tool to have as a game designer and it works very well in FFG's other games. Why is dice color such a big deal?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 23:02:32


Post by: zend


 Pacific wrote:
That must make your choice of games you can play rather limiting.. !

It's another weapon in the games designer's arsenal, I've lost track of the number of games that I've played that employ either special dice, cards or whatever.


*shrugs*

This game seems like it should play like a normal skirmish game, but FFG were desperate to keep it unique so they put in their usual board game stuff in it. If I wanted to play a Star Wars board game, I could just play Imperial Assault. Which isn't a bad game from what I've seen, it just isn't for me.

Sweet models though. They're not as detailed or as customizable as something GW would produce, but for the cost and size they're fine imo. Im already down for the starter kit, an AT-ST, and a rebel speeder. I just hope this game survives. Not only so we can get more models, but so actual players don't get left with nothing after their initial investment.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 23:23:46


Post by: Davor


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Davor wrote:
...As Peregrine said, we mostly spend that money on lunch...


If it's normal to send that kind of money on lunch, I see why the FLGS is populated by several 'rotund' individuals.

The idea isn't that they 'cost too much'. But hypothetically...

Go to the gaming club for some 40k, and realize I've lost my dice or left them at home or something. I go buy some more at the local gaming store- even Wal-Mart has Bicycle dice for a couple of bucks.

I go to play D&D on a whim with some friends. I left my dice across town. Well, I can swing by any gaming store- even some basic bookstores- and grab some dice.

I go to play 'Legion'. I left my dice. Unless my opponent wants to share, I've got to track down these special dice or order them.


You have made some good points, BUT the point that was brought up was price. Someone people were complaining about $5 or $10. They were not complaining what you brought up. So yeah, the person who complains about paying an extra $10 will in most cases spend that money at a burger joint or Starbucks what ever café or junk food to buy snack on.

That said, I think of the reasons I don't get into FF games now is because of the dice. It was cool at first, but now I see that as a novelty. More pita than anything else just like you explained.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 23:26:00


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Peregrine wrote:

Good to see more insults towards other people. But no, $10 for lunch does not mean eating excessively, it just means getting something at least a step up from dollar menu hamburgers. It's very easy to hit the $5-10 range with a small and relatively healthy meal.


Still fishing for persecution and offense where it doesn't exist, I see. Anyway, if you're spending that kind of money on lunch regularly you are:

-Going to get fat or have some other serious health problems.
-Financially reckless.
-Have pricier tastes than the average person, more power to you.

 Peregrine wrote:
And, unless the game is a complete failure (in which case you probably aren't playing it anyway), that tracking down probably consists of walking over to the FFG shelf and taking a pack of dice up to the register. Plus, it's not like sharing dice is actually a huge burden. Unless your opponent is TFG they'll let you share their dice in that situation.


Oh, cool. I'll just waltz over to the FFG shelf that every gaming store across the United States has.

And TBH, I can't blame anyone for not wanting to share dice. I've seen how some gamers don't wash their hands and cough all over the place.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 23:27:46


Post by: zend


 Peregrine wrote:


Why? As Pacific said, it's a very useful tool to have as a game designer and it works very well in FFG's other games. Why is dice color such a big deal?


I don't like tiered dice. It's unnecessary. Why do I need a Yellow (or whatever color the high tier for this game is) tier dice with less blank facings to show my vehicle has a higher chance of landing shots than my infantry that uses a White tier dice with more blank facings, when giving the units different hit values on a normal D6 can do the same thing?


It's different for the sake of being different, when it doesn't need to be. I'd be all over this if it played like Bolt Action or GW's skirmish games like SBG/AOS/40k.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 23:37:04


Post by: ZebioLizard2



Then you have silly gak like the facings for the special offensive/defensive action. You're telling me that the armored Storm Troopers can't block a shot, but the t-shirt rebels can? Makes sense fluff wise, because ST armor is more for looks than anything, but in game it's just dumb. Give the rebels a lower armor save, but a better hit value to represent that they can actually see and aim because they're not wearing dumb helmets.


The Rebels do have a lower armor save and a better hit value. The special action gives the rebels a dodge token, while the Storm troopers special gives them better aim.



Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/18 23:43:33


Post by: zend


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Then you have silly gak like the facings for the special offensive/defensive action. You're telling me that the armored Storm Troopers can't block a shot, but the t-shirt rebels can? Makes sense fluff wise, because ST armor is more for looks than anything, but in game it's just dumb. Give the rebels a lower armor save, but a better hit value to represent that they can actually see and aim because they're not wearing dumb helmets.


The Rebels do have a lower armor save and a better hit value. The special action gives the rebels a dodge token, while the Storm troopers special gives them better aim.



I stand corrected, and I will retract that part of my bitching post.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 01:47:49


Post by: Manchu


Stuff like that reminds me why I was so excited about Legion mechanically back in August. Seems like a solid attempt to translate SW.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 01:48:57


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Storm troopers special gives them better aim.


Well if they're just going to gak all over the canon like that, then I'm out...


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 01:52:29


Post by: Manchu


Yeah, but remember 'only imperial storm troopers are so precise" ...


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 01:53:44


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Manchu wrote:
Yeah, but remember 'only imperial storm troopers are so precise" ...


Maybe they were just terrible at shooting things wearing white. It confused them.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 01:54:51


Post by: Manchu


If Empire dominates the meta, expect an Ewok faction.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 02:00:09


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Manchu wrote:
If Empire dominates the meta, expect an Ewok faction.


Dude, we all know they will. I mean, why wouldn't you play Empire? I mean, that's kinda what I think is going to be the first problem- two people are going to show up with Vaders and boxes of Stormtroopers and just get tired of the same thing over and over again.

I kinda think this game needs to consider adding something else sooner than 2019. X-Wing fell out of favor faster than that in most areas, and it had a wider variety of models and stuff.

I mean, FFS they've got The Old Republic sitting out there with a lot of interesting concepts.



Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 02:06:26


Post by: Manchu


I highly suspect prequels stuff is largely beyond the license or license holders have been directed to keep references to the prequels to a minimum.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 02:19:00


Post by: malfred


 Manchu wrote:
I highly suspect prequels stuff is largely beyond the license or license holders have been directed to keep references to the prequels to a minimum.


Did prequels make it into Xwing or Armada? (I didn't follow them)


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 02:21:10


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 malfred wrote:
Did prequels make it into Xwing or Armada? (I didn't follow them)


I don't think Prequels did, but they did have several ships that weren't in the movies. Some were straight out of the Expanded Universe.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 02:24:31


Post by: Manchu


 malfred wrote:
Did prequels make it into Xwing or Armada? (I didn't follow them)
Sorta kinda. The ARC-170, for example, is a fighter originally from the prequels but there is an X-Wing model for it ... but it is explicitly a Rebellion (rather than Republic) fighter, right down to FFG painting a Rebellion symbol on the wing.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 02:52:25


Post by: zend


Yeah it's weird, the closest thing to Prequel content I've seen from FFG is the Maul pack for IA, but that's his appearance from Rebels.

Their license must not cover it. Disney has made no attempt to bury the Prequels, not counting cancelling The Clone Wars.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 02:56:54


Post by: Manchu


I think they want to rehabilitate it.

And TBH the Clone Wars are a much more exciting conflict than anything in the Disney movies so far.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 03:08:05


Post by: Davor


 Manchu wrote:
Yeah, but remember 'only imperial storm troopers are so precise" ...


They are. If they ever did shoot the main characters, they would have never found the rebel base. That is why they kept missing all the time. To let them escape.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 03:29:06


Post by: warboss


 malfred wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
I highly suspect prequels stuff is largely beyond the license or license holders have been directed to keep references to the prequels to a minimum.


Did prequels make it into Xwing or Armada? (I didn't follow them)


As a faction, no. At least one ship did (the ARC-170) before I stopped following releases of X-Wing. Not sure about Armada as I never followed it.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 05:52:44


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 zend wrote:
Yeah it's weird, the closest thing to Prequel content I've seen from FFG is the Maul pack for IA, but that's his appearance from Rebels.

Their license must not cover it. Disney has made no attempt to bury the Prequels, not counting cancelling The Clone Wars.
There are however prequel cards in Destiny. There's also clone war stuff, and other stuff from the prequels.. So FFG does have the rights to make such things. Maybe they just didn't like that stuff and prefer to avoid it?
Spoiler:


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 08:01:35


Post by: Stormonu


On the subject of specialty dice - it takes about 5 minutes to map out the special symbols to pips on a chart, and then a few games to memorize that; you can even do that for color-coded dice by buying colored dice.

I also will take cards over roster sheets every day. The cards generally have all the stats and don't need retyping.

However, I have to say Last Jedi killed a LOT of enthusiasm I have for Star Wars. This game has gone from a day one purchase to, "meh, I'll pick it up before it goes out of print." - After all, I still have my WotC minis and even my West End metals at this point. Heck, I guess I could even whip out my old 3.5" figures*, I guess...

* I bought 'em for my kids, and some collectability, now they're just rotting in boxes because my kids play video games instead of playing with toys...


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 08:12:45


Post by: zend


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
 zend wrote:
Yeah it's weird, the closest thing to Prequel content I've seen from FFG is the Maul pack for IA, but that's his appearance from Rebels.

Their license must not cover it. Disney has made no attempt to bury the Prequels, not counting cancelling The Clone Wars.
There are however prequel cards in Destiny. There's also clone war stuff, and other stuff from the prequels.. So FFG does have the rights to make such things. Maybe they just didn't like that stuff and prefer to avoid it?
Spoiler:


Hmm, interesting. I didn't think to check their card games.

Since they do have the rights, here's hoping they decide to do some Prequel stuff for Legion. This game would easily allow for it and there's a ton of stuff they can pull from to make Republic and CIS factions unique. If they don't want to go all out and make whole factions from The Clone Wars era, they could supplement both Empire and Rebel Alliance witha few units and characters from the era.

I expect we'll see characters and units from Rebels at the least. Maybe even Rogue One.


Actually discussing the game is making me almost want to play. It'll depend on what the local scene looks like, I know there's an X-Wing group here, so if I see them with Legion stuff I might give it a shot.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/19 09:43:42


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


I believe part of the reason there's very little Prequel stuff is because the designers of X Wing don't really want to.

Destiny has a different design team, and because its a card game they also have a faster turnover rate when it comes to referenced due to the sheer amount of cards they need each release. You can't really reprint different versions of Leia, Luke, Vader and Palpatine over and over again. With X Wing only releasing 2-4 ships each wave on average they burn through ships at a lower rate.

IIRC Legions at the very least has one of the X Wing designers on its rule team, and assuming its waves follow a similar pattern of 2-4 releases after the initial one (and given they have already confirmed plans for 2 more factions by the end of next year), it is likely we won't see any prequel stuff for a while if at all.

I would really love to see Republic vs CIS though.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/20 06:45:41


Post by: Snord


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Dude, we all know they will. I mean, why wouldn't you play Empire? I mean, that's kinda what I think is going to be the first problem- two people are going to show up with Vaders and boxes of Stormtroopers and just get tired of the same thing over and over again.


It doesn't seem to affect WH40k. For all the variety in factions available in that game, most people end up with dudes in power armour facing each other...

The Prequels would have been a better setting for Legion. That would have provided the background for several properly fleshed-out infantry armies, including manageable-sized vehicles. But it would never have had the instant appeal of the Original Trilogy.

I agree with the earlier comments about the models - they look like rather basic metal figures, and the lack of customisability is a turn-off for me. I question whether it will have the same level of success as X-Wing.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/20 07:14:57


Post by: Kalamadea


I haven't seen anybody mention scale since the Youtubers started getting review copies. Couldn't find any that directly compared the minis to IA, but this is a screen grab from the Spikey Bits unboxing next to a Space Marine



and here's one of Agis' scale shots from a while back next to a similar Space Marine



Sure looks a lot closer to IA than the old shots from the pre-release resins shown at Gen-Con, they might be closer to IA than we initially believed.

Spoiler:


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/20 09:07:06


Post by: ZebioLizard2



It doesn't seem to affect WH40k. For all the variety in factions available in that game, most people end up with dudes in power armour facing each other...
There's a bit of variance due to codex and availability for those in power armor rather then something that'll grant your varied stormtrooper corp different things. There's never really been Galactic Empire or First Order styled bonuses for X-wing and IA.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/27 01:03:38


Post by: Thargrim


https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-legion/#/support-section

rules reference/learn to play booklet are now up for download on the support section of this page. Plus the article from today:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/2/26/swl-rally-the-troops/


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/27 16:00:59


Post by: Yodhrin


Davor wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Davor wrote:
...As Peregrine said, we mostly spend that money on lunch...


If it's normal to send that kind of money on lunch, I see why the FLGS is populated by several 'rotund' individuals.

The idea isn't that they 'cost too much'. But hypothetically...

Go to the gaming club for some 40k, and realize I've lost my dice or left them at home or something. I go buy some more at the local gaming store- even Wal-Mart has Bicycle dice for a couple of bucks.

I go to play D&D on a whim with some friends. I left my dice across town. Well, I can swing by any gaming store- even some basic bookstores- and grab some dice.

I go to play 'Legion'. I left my dice. Unless my opponent wants to share, I've got to track down these special dice or order them.


You have made some good points, BUT the point that was brought up was price. Someone people were complaining about $5 or $10. They were not complaining what you brought up. So yeah, the person who complains about paying an extra $10 will in most cases spend that money at a burger joint or Starbucks what ever café or junk food to buy snack on.

That said, I think of the reasons I don't get into FF games now is because of the dice. It was cool at first, but now I see that as a novelty. More pita than anything else just like you explained.


"Some people" were "complaining" about $5-10, because not everyone is chauffeur-driven to the game store in their Trumpesque golden stretch limo chucking money out the window to the peasants because it means nothing to them(and yes, that's obvious hyperbole, you're not clever for pointing that out).

Every pound I have to spend on extraneous, unnecessarily money-grubbing nonsense is a pound less I have to spend on actual models. Now, if FFG were actually including a few spares in their game boxes, rather than providing the absolute bare minimum necessary for the rules to function(not function optimally even, just function) in order to drive people to buy additional, self-evidently and demonstrably overpriced add-on packs, or even if they were still doing that, but the add-on packs were reasonably priced for what you get in them(ie, lower price or more dice, I care not which), there wouldn't be a problem. But, they don't include adequate amounts of the special dice in the game box, and they do expect you to fork over an unreasonable amount for the addon packs, and the fact you'll try and turn that around and pull this "fnar fnar stop being such a cheapskate" trash because to you it's not a significant amount of money, I think that says quite a lot about you chief. Quite a lot.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/27 16:21:03


Post by: LunarSol


FFG are terrible about their dice. Legion is apparently no exception; not having enough to support rolls from models in the box itself. It's pretty inexcusable, but I guess it makes them money so too bad for us.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/02/27 17:09:48


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Can the special dice not be converted and mapped onto a standard D6?

e.g.

White Die = White numbered D6
Blank = 1,2,3,4
Block = 5
Surge = 6

Red Die = Red numbered D6
Blank = 1,2
Block = 3,4,5
Surge = 6

Use sticky labels, charts etc for reference.


Its been a long time since I played Imperial Assault which I gather is a spiritual predecessor to Legion and I've not played Legion itself so I've probably got the SW:L dice wrong, but you get the gist.

I might do this for SAGA for the Dice sets that I lack.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/02 13:59:51


Post by: Taarnak


Some new videos from Sorastro of the melted plastic:






Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/08 01:36:36


Post by: Thargrim


Apparently the type of plastic used for this game does not work well with plastic cement/glue (and it may not work at all tbh). It seems superglue is the way to go, same as resin figures. This kind of bummed me out cause I kind of hate using superglue across so many figures and it doesn't clean up well if you screw up. I pretty much swear by the testors blue tube.

I think the game is out in about 15 days, feels like it's been a long time since it was originally announced.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/08 02:58:44


Post by: Theophony


Sara demo copy at miniaturemarkets new retail store grand opening. Figs look great, but after playing x-wing I’m all done with the table clutter of fog games.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/08 08:34:14


Post by: Pacific


What is a fog game?

Damn those are some nice looking Stormtroopers. Who am I fooling, I'm not going to be able to resist at least getting the starter set to paint them up. If the game is fun & playable that will be a bonus. I'm fairly confident FFG should have taken a good crack at it in that regard.

Cheers for posting that painting guide Taarnak


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/08 09:02:08


Post by: Messiah


May not work with Polystryrene glue, might work with other gules for plastic.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/08 09:09:37


Post by: Theophony


 Pacific wrote:
What is a fog game?

Damn those are some nice looking Stormtroopers. Who am I fooling, I'm not going to be able to resist at least getting the starter set to paint them up. If the game is fun & playable that will be a bonus. I'm fairly confident FFG should have taken a good crack at it in that regard.

Cheers for posting that painting guide Taarnak

it’s one of those games where autocorrect decides your not paying enough attention and it eats up your post. I now forget what I meant to type , just too many chits on the table for my tastes.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/08 10:55:46


Post by: His Master's Voice


Hmm, up close, those STs don't have the crispness I'd like to see on something I'd buy just to have rather than as a gaming piece.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/08 14:39:03


Post by: Pacific


 Theophony wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
What is a fog game?

Damn those are some nice looking Stormtroopers. Who am I fooling, I'm not going to be able to resist at least getting the starter set to paint them up. If the game is fun & playable that will be a bonus. I'm fairly confident FFG should have taken a good crack at it in that regard.

Cheers for posting that painting guide Taarnak

it’s one of those games where autocorrect decides your not paying enough attention and it eats up your post. I now forget what I meant to type , just too many chits on the table for my tastes.


It's OK, I get what you mean!


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/08 14:43:26


Post by: LunarSol


 Theophony wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
What is a fog game?

Damn those are some nice looking Stormtroopers. Who am I fooling, I'm not going to be able to resist at least getting the starter set to paint them up. If the game is fun & playable that will be a bonus. I'm fairly confident FFG should have taken a good crack at it in that regard.

Cheers for posting that painting guide Taarnak

it’s one of those games where autocorrect decides your not paying enough attention and it eats up your post. I now forget what I meant to type , just too many chits on the table for my tastes.


I assume you were trying to type FFG game.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/09 00:43:06


Post by: angel of death 007


 Thargrim wrote:
Apparently the type of plastic used for this game does not work well with plastic cement/glue (and it may not work at all tbh). It seems superglue is the way to go, same as resin figures. This kind of bummed me out cause I kind of hate using superglue across so many figures and it doesn't clean up well if you screw up. I pretty much swear by the testors blue tube.

I think the game is out in about 15 days, feels like it's been a long time since it was originally announced.


Definately agree about the whole super glue thing it is my least favorite thing to work with. It has been a long time since it was originally announced, I thought for sure they would do like a Christmas release but here it is 3 months past that, they definately took their sweet time on something they already had basically finalized several months back.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/09 08:29:31


Post by: Vertrucio


You've been working with super glue forever guys, using it is nothing new.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/09 09:49:21


Post by: Magnian


Sorry to jump on from nowhere, but I have an odd question. Given how dakkadakka is mostly focused on 40k, I'm somewhat surprised to see SW is popular here.
Given how vastly different these 2 franchises are, I tend to find myself drawn to one and repulsed by the other. So I guess I'm just wondering why it is well enough liked by people here?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/09 12:07:25


Post by: Krinsath


 Magnian wrote:
Sorry to jump on from nowhere, but I have an odd question. Given how dakkadakka is mostly focused on 40k, I'm somewhat surprised to see SW is popular here.
Given how vastly different these 2 franchises are, I tend to find myself drawn to one and repulsed by the other. So I guess I'm just wondering why it is well enough liked by people here?


I'll give you credit that you promised an odd question and delivered. Your career in politics has been ruined by your ability to keep your word.

To attempt an answer, I'd say it's the same reason it's possible to like football and American football at the same time? It's fairly normal to be able to enjoy to different settings in the same genre as there's no requirement for exclusivity in one's preferences. Liking 40k doesn't mean I must therefore dislike Star Wars for not being 40k (or vice versa). Having read Tolkien and liking the MIddle-Earth setting doesn't mean I have to despise Game of Thrones's Westeros or Raymond E. Feist's Midkemia So forth and so on.

In my personal history both Star Wars and Warhammer were major components of my childhood. They both have their strengths and both have their flaws, but the fact that they're different means they can both have a niche because one doesn't do what the other does. I would find, and expect is fairly common, that franchises that *aren't* vastly different are the ones most likely to not be "liked enough" to have a real following in comparison.

You'd have to elaborate more on your personal preferences, though I understand not wanting to skew the conversation at the outset.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/09 13:27:55


Post by: Pugnacious_Cee


Got to actually hold the miniatures and see the game in action yesterday at a preview event. They've got some mold lines on them that are a bit jarring, but ultimately they're really nice. The speed bikes and rebel walker are especially cool!

I went from "excited" to actually, legitimately cannot wait to get my hands on this.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/09 15:36:00


Post by: LunarSol


I quite enjoyed the preview event as well. The game system was more interesting in concert than it read on paper. Suppression in particular is really interesting. The models also have significantly more presence than I was expecting.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/09 21:20:49


Post by: Thargrim


https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/3/9/fortify-your-battlefield/

official terrain/objectives plus cards for Legion, and a spare barricades set. Definitely going to get the objectives, they look a lot cooler than card tokens on the table.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/09 22:32:36


Post by: EnTyme


I actually wouldn't mind getting some of those to use as scatter terrain in 40k.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/10 00:39:22


Post by: Ruglud


Oooooh, moisture vaporators, nice....

Spoiler:

Fortify Your Battlefield
Announcing Priority Supplies and Barricades for Star Wars: Legion



Fantasy Flight Games is proud to announce two new expansions for Star Wars™: Legion, bringing your battlefields even closer to the Star Wars galaxy!

Priority Supplies Battlefield Expansion
Barricades Pack
The battles of Star Wars: Legion can rage across the galaxy. You may be fighting in the desert wastes of Tatooine, the snow fields of Hoth, the grassy fields of Lothal, or the tropical beaches of Scarif. No matter where the Galactic Civil War takes you, the Priority Supplies Battlefield Expansion and the Barricades Pack have the miniatures to bring new life to your battlefields. Your troops may hunker down behind sturdy barricades or desperately maneuver to secure crates, comms stations, and moisture vaporators. With a total of twelve objective miniatures and eight barricades between these two expansions, you’ll have everything you need to bring a new level of Star Wars realism to your games of Star Wars: Legion.

You can pre-order your copies of the Priority Supplies Battlefield Expansion and the Barricades Pack at your local retailer or online through our webstore today! Then, read on for more of what you can find within these two expansion packs.


Priority Supplies Battlefield Expansion
Your battles might take you to planets across the galaxy, but one thing that most games of Star Wars: Legion have in common are your objectives. Objective tokens are commonly placed on the battlefield at the beginning of the game as the players select the objective card that will be used for their game. These objective tokens could represent crates of supplies, communications relays, or key positions on the battlefield, but with the addition of the Priority Supplies Battlefield Expansion, you can bring your objective tokens to life with twelve new objective miniatures.


Rather than a flat piece of punchboard, the objective miniatures included in the Priority Supplies Battlefield Expansion spring off of the battlefield, providing a clearly visible and thematic place for you to direct your army. Within this expansion, you’ll find three comms stations, four moisture vaporators, and five supply crates, each giving you the perfect way to mark an objective token on the battlefield, no matter which objective card you’re using. And of course, even if you’re not marking objective tokens, each of the miniatures in this expansion can stand in as terrain, bringing an added layer of Star Wars theme to your games of Star Wars: Legion.

You’ll also find new variety for your conflicts in the three brand-new battle cards included in the Priority Supplies Battlefield Expansion. Sabotage the Moisture Vaporators puts the new moisture vaporator miniatures to good work—one player is tasked with repairing the four moisture vaporators scattered across the field, while the other player must attempt to sabotage them. A new deployment card, Advanced Positions, puts both armies in opposite corners of the battlefield and allows them to adapt and move, scouting in advance to gain the upper hand. Finally, the Minefield condition card transforms any battleground into a lethal deathtrap, sprinkling mines around the battlefield. Whenever a unit gets too close, they run the risk of setting off a detonation that could shatter even the toughest defenses.

Between twelve new objective miniatures and three new battle cards, the Priority Supplies Battlefield Expansion promises to reshape your games of Star Wars: Legion and draw you into the Galactic Civil War like never before.


Barricades Pack
When you’re seeking protection from enemy blaster fire, there are few substitutes for the solid weight of a barricade between you and your foes. Decorate your games with more terrain and provide cover for your troopers with the Barricades Pack for Star Wars: Legion!

Within this expansion, you’ll find eight unpainted barricades, identical to the barricades included in the Star Wars: Legion Core Set. By doubling your supply of barricades, you can create even more variety in your battles, sprinkling barricades across the field and providing places for units on either side to hunker down and take refuge from enemy fire. You can use these barricades as decorative terrain for an Imperial installment or a secret Rebel base—or you can integrate them fully into your game by providing heavy cover for any unit that hides behind them. Either way, the Barricades Pack invites you to bring a little more Star Wars flavor into your planetary battles.


Enter the Star Wars Galaxy
Supply crates, comms stations, moisture vaporators, and barricades—whether you’re fighting for the Galactic Empire or the Rebel Alliance, every new miniature in these expansions brings more of the Star Wars galaxy to life on your tabletop.

Look for the Priority Supplies Battlefield Expansion (SWL16) and the Barricades Pack (SWL17) to be released in the second quarter of 2018! You can pre-order your copies at your local retailer or online through our website today.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/10 03:39:07


Post by: insaniak


 Magnian wrote:
Sorry to jump on from nowhere, but I have an odd question. Given how dakkadakka is mostly focused on 40k, I'm somewhat surprised to see SW is popular here.
Given how vastly different these 2 franchises are, I tend to find myself drawn to one and repulsed by the other. So I guess I'm just wondering why it is well enough liked by people here?

The world would be a boring place if we could only like one thing.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/10 23:41:54


Post by: LunarSol


 Thargrim wrote:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/3/9/fortify-your-battlefield/

official terrain/objectives plus cards for Legion, and a spare barricades set. Definitely going to get the objectives, they look a lot cooler than card tokens on the table.


You get a set of Barricades in the core set anyway.

The objectives feel like a no brainer, but I'd like them on thinner bases. I'm not sure I can handle the little command console though. I'd just expect anyone who triggers it to immediately die.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/11 02:41:52


Post by: Elbows


Yep, the objective bits could be good, but I suspect a serious FFG pricetag.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/11 02:45:28


Post by: angel of death 007


$25 MSRP. They are on miniature market for preorder


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/11 05:13:03


Post by: ScarletRose


I saw the core box set up on a demo table at a game store I was at today (not my local store, but near enough that I occasionally travel there). The minis looked surprisingly crisp and well done.

I'm seriously considering this game now.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/11 10:41:26


Post by: notprop


Are the crates cast onto the bases?

Seems like an odd choice if they are.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/11 11:07:23


Post by: Riquende


 notprop wrote:
Are the crates cast onto the bases?

Seems like an odd choice if they are.


Maybe base contact is an important consideration for scenarios?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/12 01:42:40


Post by: angel of death 007


 ScarletRose wrote:
I saw the core box set up on a demo table at a game store I was at today (not my local store, but near enough that I occasionally travel there). The minis looked surprisingly crisp and well done.

I'm seriously considering this game now.


The dark side is calling out to you, don't fight it. As a wargame lover at heart and being a huge star wars fan I was in from the get go.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/12 12:55:40


Post by: Magnian


 Krinsath wrote:
 Magnian wrote:
Sorry to jump on from nowhere, but I have an odd question. Given how dakkadakka is mostly focused on 40k, I'm somewhat surprised to see SW is popular here.
Given how vastly different these 2 franchises are, I tend to find myself drawn to one and repulsed by the other. So I guess I'm just wondering why it is well enough liked by people here?


I'll give you credit that you promised an odd question and delivered. Your career in politics has been ruined by your ability to keep your word.

To attempt an answer, I'd say it's the same reason it's possible to like football and American football at the same time? It's fairly normal to be able to enjoy to different settings in the same genre as there's no requirement for exclusivity in one's preferences. Liking 40k doesn't mean I must therefore dislike Star Wars for not being 40k (or vice versa). Having read Tolkien and liking the MIddle-Earth setting doesn't mean I have to despise Game of Thrones's Westeros or Raymond E. Feist's Midkemia So forth and so on.

In my personal history both Star Wars and Warhammer were major components of my childhood. They both have their strengths and both have their flaws, but the fact that they're different means they can both have a niche because one doesn't do what the other does. I would find, and expect is fairly common, that franchises that *aren't* vastly different are the ones most likely to not be "liked enough" to have a real following in comparison.

You'd have to elaborate more on your personal preferences, though I understand not wanting to skew the conversation at the outset.


Thanks for your effort at indulging my idle curiosity. Over the past couple of years I've often on various forums seen friendly (and not so friendly) banter along the lines of "SW vs. 40k, who wins?". What was interesting in all of these was the level of engagement. As for the examples you've given, I understand the point and can possibly even expand a bit on it. With Star Trek I've mostly found the tv show to be no more than a passable time waster. But the last couple of movies on the other hand was nice. This is all part, I suppose of trying to keep a franchise fresh. If it is done wrong, people lose interest. Plenty of people are bemoaning this very issue with the new 40k. Sorry for rambling, thanks anyway.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 00:01:01


Post by: Thargrim


Two new desert 3x3 gaming mats from FFG, specifically for Legion. They are getting a mixed reception due to having so many terrain features but I think they look pretty good. And because i'm in the states I can get these mats cheaper than the ones from the UK which tend to have expensive shipping.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/3/13/prepare-your-troops/

Spoiler:




Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 00:45:53


Post by: JoeRugby


Nipped into firestorm games today and they had a demo copy

Not see no any size comparison pics yet so got some pics with some of their nearby Necromunda minis. (bear in mine the goliaths a big gits and the Esther has platform shoes)

Troops


Luke


Guy with asthma


Quality looks good but they won’t fit in with my model collection (was praying for the production minis to be a bit smaller than the resin masters) so I’m out.



Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 09:42:35


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Are the Stormtroopers all a head taller than the rebels? No wonder Luke was "a little short".


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 10:13:51


Post by: Vertrucio


Size matters not.

(Unless it's miniature scale )


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 10:56:06


Post by: Albertorius


Those production bases are kind of surprisingly tall...


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 12:08:44


Post by: JimmyWolf87


Those are indeed pretty tall (especially if they're Goliath height but without the bulk). The shape of the bases looks a bit... naff? Probably just because it's a departure from most other companies (which may be the point) but they just look odd to me.

Those pics do go some way to easing my concerns about production quality (some of the sculpts are still garbage mind...).


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 12:44:17


Post by: Elbows


The good news though is that the figures aren't slotted or attached to the base (if the assembly video I saw was accurate). So you can mount them on whatever bases you want. I know I'd go Renedra like my 40K stuff if I ever did Star Wars.

Zero issue with silly tall bases I can ignore.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 12:52:16


Post by: Aeneades


You can mount on alternate bases for the infantry but vehicles need to be mounted on the official bases as they are shaped to fit the movement tool.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 13:00:26


Post by: Elbows


Good point. I admit if I bought the minis I wouldn't be playing FFG's game, so I didn't think about that, lol.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 15:01:52


Post by: EnTyme


Even accounting for the taller base, those minis are taller than I expected. If I could into this, I'd definitely want to use a shorter base, and maybe file down the vehicle bases a little? It's a little thing, but it bothers me for some reason.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/14 15:32:33


Post by: LunarSol


It doesn't realistically matter, but since the edges are slanted, if you make the base shorter you make it slightly smaller.

Personally, in hand I didn't notice the height, but I wasn't really working with the models either. I certainly notice it on the objective set though.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/21 02:58:56


Post by: Thargrim





video from the developers, more or less a hype video. But they certainly seem enthusiastic about this game getting support for a good while. This will be out on the shelves this thursday, I got mine from a discount seller so with shipping and all I probably won't get to get going on this until early next week.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/21 22:20:34


Post by: Kalamadea


I still may be able to sneak in some of my WotC stuff if I rebase everything on GW bases. People on the Facebook group have been split on the bases, a lot of people want to use clear acrylic and there's a number of companies already producing them, but the game is True LoS and some people are taking that to the point of if you can see Vader's lightsaber tip you have LoS to Vader, so if you use anything besides the official FFG bases then you can't use your figs in any organized play because that extra 2mm of height changes their profile. It's the whole "kneeling wrathlords" issue form 3rd edition all over again, I fething despise True LoS systems

I'll know soon enough, got my shipping notice this morning


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/21 23:56:27


Post by: Yodhrin


 Kalamadea wrote:
I still may be able to sneak in some of my WotC stuff if I rebase everything on GW bases. People on the Facebook group have been split on the bases, a lot of people want to use clear acrylic and there's a number of companies already producing them, but the game is True LoS and some people are taking that to the point of if you can see Vader's lightsaber tip you have LoS to Vader, so if you use anything besides the official FFG bases then you can't use your figs in any organized play because that extra 2mm of height changes their profile. It's the whole "kneeling wrathlords" issue form 3rd edition all over again, I fething despise True LoS systems

I'll know soon enough, got my shipping notice this morning


Ugh. I am ever more glad I decided to just get these to paint and use with generic, non-wallet-assaulting rules.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 00:48:10


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
I still may be able to sneak in some of my WotC stuff if I rebase everything on GW bases. People on the Facebook group have been split on the bases, a lot of people want to use clear acrylic and there's a number of companies already producing them, but the game is True LoS and some people are taking that to the point of if you can see Vader's lightsaber tip you have LoS to Vader, so if you use anything besides the official FFG bases then you can't use your figs in any organized play because that extra 2mm of height changes their profile. It's the whole "kneeling wrathlords" issue form 3rd edition all over again, I fething despise True LoS systems

I'll know soon enough, got my shipping notice this morning


Ugh. I am ever more glad I decided to just get these to paint and use with generic, non-wallet-assaulting rules.


I'm curious, what alternate rulesets are you using?

I don't like the typical counter heavy over design of FFG games. I found Imperial Assault to be confusing.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 00:51:45


Post by: Yodhrin


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
I still may be able to sneak in some of my WotC stuff if I rebase everything on GW bases. People on the Facebook group have been split on the bases, a lot of people want to use clear acrylic and there's a number of companies already producing them, but the game is True LoS and some people are taking that to the point of if you can see Vader's lightsaber tip you have LoS to Vader, so if you use anything besides the official FFG bases then you can't use your figs in any organized play because that extra 2mm of height changes their profile. It's the whole "kneeling wrathlords" issue form 3rd edition all over again, I fething despise True LoS systems

I'll know soon enough, got my shipping notice this morning


Ugh. I am ever more glad I decided to just get these to paint and use with generic, non-wallet-assaulting rules.


I'm curious, what alternate rulesets are you using?

I don't like the typical counter heavy over design of FFG games. I found Imperial Assault to be confusing.


Don't even know yet tbh, right now most of the non-GW rulesets I know are for fantasy.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 00:58:07


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


I would reccommend This is Not a Test, but thats more of a skirmish warband game akin to Necromunda than a skirmish battle game.

SAGA perhaps? Though again, thats geared more towards historical and fantasy themes with a heavy focus on melee.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 01:00:34


Post by: Galas


Gates of Antares... Maelstrom Edge... those are the company level Wargames I can think of that are sci-fi and obviously not 40k.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 01:52:30


Post by: Vertrucio


I actually like a bunch of stuff in FFGs rules, no reason it can't be modified into something else, especially since they're pulling from a bunch of other miniature games' rules already.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 06:26:43


Post by: kodos


No reason not to use the free FFG rules and print cards on your own (or just don't use them) if you just want to play the models

Than there are a lot free SciFi rules out there, from old stuff like Stargrunt Ii, to very new like Warpath


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 08:27:59


Post by: AAN


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm curious, what alternate rulesets are you using?
I don't like the typical counter heavy over design of FFG games. I found Imperial Assault to be confusing.


LOL, while I play IA I have to agree FFG has a tendency to include way too much marker.

A nice generic SF ruleset for platoon level (20+ minis per side and a couple of vehicles) is my own
Victory Decision: Future Combat: http://agisn.de/html/future_combat_vide.html


OK - I am biased here, but maybe read the description and reviews and judge for yourself.
Under the design notes I have sketched up some example units to give a feel what is possible.
http://agisn.de/html/fuco_design_notes.html


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 08:56:24


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Kalamadea wrote:
I still may be able to sneak in some of my WotC stuff if I rebase everything on GW bases. People on the Facebook group have been split on the bases, a lot of people want to use clear acrylic and there's a number of companies already producing them, but the game is True LoS and some people are taking that to the point of if you can see Vader's lightsaber tip you have LoS to Vader, so if you use anything besides the official FFG bases then you can't use your figs in any organized play because that extra 2mm of height changes their profile. It's the whole "kneeling wrathlords" issue form 3rd edition all over again, I fething despise True LoS systems

I'll know soon enough, got my shipping notice this morning


Just order thicker acrylic bases, then. This isn't rocket science.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for rules, I'd consider Blasters and Bulkheads. It's a generic set of sci-fi skirmish rules, but it's clear that they're designed to be Star Wars with the serial numbers filed off. You can have heroes and units of 5-10 grunts, so the unit packs available for Legion and Imperial Assault are ideal, and it should handle up to a platoon or so per side (or half a dozen heroes) with no issues . I've been using the old WotC prepainted models.

I wouldn't want to field too many large vehicles, but one or two AT-ST or snowspeeders should be OK.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 09:38:32


Post by: Yodhrin


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
I still may be able to sneak in some of my WotC stuff if I rebase everything on GW bases. People on the Facebook group have been split on the bases, a lot of people want to use clear acrylic and there's a number of companies already producing them, but the game is True LoS and some people are taking that to the point of if you can see Vader's lightsaber tip you have LoS to Vader, so if you use anything besides the official FFG bases then you can't use your figs in any organized play because that extra 2mm of height changes their profile. It's the whole "kneeling wrathlords" issue form 3rd edition all over again, I fething despise True LoS systems

I'll know soon enough, got my shipping notice this morning


Just order thicker acrylic bases, then. This isn't rocket science.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for rules, I'd consider Blasters and Bulkheads. It's a generic set of sci-fi skirmish rules, but it's clear that they're designed to be Star Wars with the serial numbers filed off. You can have heroes and units of 5-10 grunts, so the unit packs available for Legion and Imperial Assault are ideal, and it should handle up to a platoon or so per side (or half a dozen heroes) with no issues . I've been using the old WotC prepainted models.

I wouldn't want to field too many large vehicles, but one or two AT-ST or snowspeeders should be OK.


Ooooh, that looks ideal. Not having loads of vehicles is fine as far as I'm concerned, the expansion of 40K in recent years has amply demonstrated what a bad idea pushing multiple large vehicles in this scale is.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 09:54:38


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Plus, it's only a tenner for the PDF. Every character is designed by the player(s), although there's a sample pirate band in the back of the rules. Looks like it'd do well for Firefly, Guardians of the Galaxy (well, maybe not Ego) and settings like that, too.

http://www.wargamedownloads.com/item.php?item=1193&pics=2


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 13:34:40


Post by: Easy E


I plan on picking up a starter and some trooper boxes so I can play Rampant Stars!

http://www.wargamevault.com/product/209268/Rampant-Stars?src=newest_recent


I have used the rules to play Star Wars before with Micro Machines when they made infantry packs. Memories!

http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/04/rampant-stars-battle-report-star-wars.html



However, if you want to get really crazy you could use the old Star Wars Miniature Battles rules from West End Games. I plan to do this as well! The rules won Best Wargames Rules at Origins..... in 1991!

Here is my review: http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2018/02/review-star-wars-miniature-battles-west.html



I mean, once you have the models, you can go hog wild with all sorts of rules systems! That is my plan. Get some basic troopers and units and go to town in the Star Wars Universe!

http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/04/tomorrows-war-battle-report-star-wars.html






Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 15:18:13


Post by: Elbows


My entire group is pretty much of the same opinion: Get the minis, drop the rules.

If I'm honest, I think even FFG knows this - may have even planned on it. By using their usual "TONS OF ADDITIONAL CRAP" game model...they can justify the increased cost of the miniatures, knowing full well the cards and tokens are being tossed in a box by 60-70% of the people who are going to buy into these models.

FFG makes more money selling less plastic. It's not a bad plan.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 15:50:30


Post by: LunarSol


I kind of understand trying to play the rules with other minis. I'm not really grasping the logic for the other way around.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 17:06:07


Post by: kodos


Popular games with good minis often have bad rules, while good rules came very often without miniature support.

In historical gaming, having rules and minis separate is normal
in Fantasy gaming this is complete unusual
and in SciFi gaming it is 50:50 depending if you go more fantasy in Space or real SciFi.

for real SciFi or modern/future combat there are much more good rules out there than miniatures
so a new range of human soldiers is first of all interesting for those games without models


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 20:42:53


Post by: Yodhrin


 LunarSol wrote:
I kind of understand trying to play the rules with other minis. I'm not really grasping the logic for the other way around.


Because the minis are good and the rules aren't to our taste. Or rather, the business model surrounding them isn't - I want to buy, build, and paint a modest thematic Star Wars force that I can use in games. If I want to do that specifically to play Legion, I also have to buy extra superfluous models maybe even for factions I don't even intend to collect just to get the cards, not to mention the overpriced extra play-aids and dice and tokens and blah blah blah. Given how rarely I'm likely to get a chance to play with them regardless of which system I use, I might as well use a system that isn't designed from the ground up to be an unnecessarily massive cash vampire.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 21:24:50


Post by: Elbows


Precisely.

FFG games, while "okay" are laden with special dice, special markers, special friggin' movement sticks, and heinously designed "card gotchas" etc. Basically, like many systems, the game is too heavily tied into sales/etc. There are dozens of applicable sci-fi rule sets out there for reasonable cost which have none of that. It sounds like my group is considering everything from Victory Decision, Rogue Stars, Tomorrow's War, to Osprey's Black Ops, Stargrunt II, and blasters and bulkheads...so who knows where we'll end up.

A lot of these games are simply rulebooks with zero need to buy specific miniatures, etc. They're not tied into a money-grab kind of build style for selling the game. So we get the minis, ditch the FFG parts and play a more enjoyable game. (Heck, I'm planning on eBaying off the extra bits to get some money back).

All companies which sell rules and models to support them eventually fall into this kind of thing. It's not a crime, but it ends up making pretty poor rules sets if the companies get too big.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 21:46:28


Post by: Stormonu


I’d certainly like to try the new rules out by FFG, but I do already have a ton of WotC minis, some West End metals and even the old micro machine figures - and the action fleet models if I want to incorporate some vehicles as well (including a RotJ AT-ST 1/4 model I bought last week). Heck, if I really felt like abusing myself, I can open the 3.5 figures I collected ages ago and have a go at it.

I’m not going to let myself be bound either to specific models or rules. My biggest challenge is both finding someone to play and, should I grab FFG’s official stuff, piling more minis into the mountain of shame I need to get painted.

For now, planning to try a couple games with the PDF rules and self-printed cards. If I like what I see, I’ll add it to the pile. If not, I don’t have to set yet another Star Wars game on the shelf alongside the WotC game and the old WEG mini game I’ve already got collecting dust.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 21:53:26


Post by: Easy E


You can still play WEG and WOTC if you want. You have everything you need!


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 21:58:19


Post by: Elbows


Heck, I have the WEG books on PDF...never really looked at them, but I will now. Good point! (it's probably awful!)


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 22:10:19


Post by: Stormonu


 Elbows wrote:
Heck, I have the WEG books on PDF...never really looked at them, but I will now. Good point! (it's probably awful!)


The WEG rules aren’t bad, but they have some clunky features back from 90’s gaming. Drop a wonky rule or two (such as firing arcs on infantry models), and it’d still be a playable game today. The WotC rules, not so much.

However, I’m just curious how well the Legion rules work - and it’d be easier to find local players, TBH.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/22 22:21:06


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 LunarSol wrote:
I kind of understand trying to play the rules with other minis. I'm not really grasping the logic for the other way around.


I'm the opposite. Buying these miniatures to use with other rules is obvious - they're the only source of Star Wars miniatures at the moment, and they're pretty good, so lots of people will want them for whatever ruleset they already use. But I don't see many people wanting to use these rules in a non-Star Wars context. Buying the expansion packs for the cards and chucking away the miniatures is even more expensive than the other way round, and there's no stats for anything that isn't Star Wars.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 07:39:52


Post by: AAN


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Plus, it's only a tenner for the PDF. Every character is designed by the player(s), although there's a sample pirate band in the back of the rules. Looks like it'd do well for Firefly, Guardians of the Galaxy (well, maybe not Ego) and settings like that, too.

http://www.wargamedownloads.com/item.php?item=1193&pics=2

I totally agree, Blasters and Bulkhead is a great! Got it too, however please bear in ind that it is basically a squad level skirmish (6+ minis per side) game, not platoon level like Legion.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 15:19:29


Post by: jake


The set my housemate pre-ordered arrived yesterday while I was at work. I took a look when I got home and was not impressed. I had really been looking forward to this since I actually like Armada, but the models are really poor. he plastic is sub-par, the details are super soft and mold lines are prevalent. My housemate had assembled the Imperial half of the box, so I didnt get to do that myself, but looking at the unassembled rebels it looks like the models do not have modular parts. You're stuck with the same poses in each set. The poses themselves are pretty bland as well. The models are bigger than the Imperial Assault models, but don't really look any better. They look like mediocre board game models.

I'm extremely disappointed. If you were planning on buying this game for the models I'd really recommend staying away.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 16:42:03


Post by: griffen127


New Han and more rebels commandos.


[Thumb - IMG_1991.JPG]


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 16:44:37


Post by: griffen127


Han, they gave out the star cards also.

[Thumb - IMG_1993.JPG]
[Thumb - IMG_1996.JPG]


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 17:41:17


Post by: friareriner


Good on FFG for previewing these models in Australia.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 18:01:26


Post by: Sqorgar


oloS uaH is my favorite Star Wars character. Don't care for that sopuawwoC leqeY though.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 18:17:27


Post by: warboss


Hey, he actually has his blaster in those unlike in posters for the upcoming Solo movie!

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/han-solo-film-poster-removes-guns.54500/


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 18:23:24


Post by: Sqorgar


Han didn't just not shoot first, he didn't shoot at all. Future versions of Star Wars will involve Han Solo getting into a tickle fight with Greedo.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 18:24:00


Post by: Thargrim


 jake wrote:
The set my housemate pre-ordered arrived yesterday while I was at work. I took a look when I got home and was not impressed. I had really been looking forward to this since I actually like Armada, but the models are really poor. he plastic is sub-par, the details are super soft and mold lines are prevalent. My housemate had assembled the Imperial half of the box, so I didnt get to do that myself, but looking at the unassembled rebels it looks like the models do not have modular parts. You're stuck with the same poses in each set. The poses themselves are pretty bland as well. The models are bigger than the Imperial Assault models, but don't really look any better. They look like mediocre board game models.

I'm extremely disappointed. If you were planning on buying this game for the models I'd really recommend staying away.


Well if you're used to stuff like GW it makes these models seem more toy-like. They seem to be made of an almost pvc/abs type plastic. I haven't had issues cleaning the mold lines but they seem to vary. IMO these are definitely ahead of the IA models, but similar in detail to bolt action minis except Legion is more like an easy to build style. In a way you get what you pay for, these models are a lot cheaper than most, so is the quality. As Sorastros painting guides have shown these models can still look really good with a little bit of effort. It's been basically common knowlege that the game was going to have duplicate sculpts it's been a known thing since last year.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 18:31:09


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


So if the Rebels are getting Han and Commandos, what for the Imperials?

Director Krennic and Death Troopers?
General Mohc and Dark Troopers?
Thrawn and Death Troopers?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/23 18:44:01


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 AAN wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Plus, it's only a tenner for the PDF. Every character is designed by the player(s), although there's a sample pirate band in the back of the rules. Looks like it'd do well for Firefly, Guardians of the Galaxy (well, maybe not Ego) and settings like that, too.

http://www.wargamedownloads.com/item.php?item=1193&pics=2

I totally agree, Blasters and Bulkhead is a great! Got it too, however please bear in ind that it is basically a squad level skirmish (6+ minis per side) game, not platoon level like Legion.

Six units of five Stgormtroopers each plus an officer is a platoon. The core box for Legion contains troopers, a leader and a light vehicle for each side - well within the capabilities of Blasters and Bulkheads.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 05:22:21


Post by: jake


 Thargrim wrote:
 jake wrote:
The set my housemate pre-ordered arrived yesterday while I was at work. I took a look when I got home and was not impressed. I had really been looking forward to this since I actually like Armada, but the models are really poor. he plastic is sub-par, the details are super soft and mold lines are prevalent. My housemate had assembled the Imperial half of the box, so I didnt get to do that myself, but looking at the unassembled rebels it looks like the models do not have modular parts. You're stuck with the same poses in each set. The poses themselves are pretty bland as well. The models are bigger than the Imperial Assault models, but don't really look any better. They look like mediocre board game models.

I'm extremely disappointed. If you were planning on buying this game for the models I'd really recommend staying away.


Well if you're used to stuff like GW it makes these models seem more toy-like. They seem to be made of an almost pvc/abs type plastic. I haven't had issues cleaning the mold lines but they seem to vary. IMO these are definitely ahead of the IA models, but similar in detail to bolt action minis except Legion is more like an easy to build style. In a way you get what you pay for, these models are a lot cheaper than most, so is the quality. As Sorastros painting guides have shown these models can still look really good with a little bit of effort. It's been basically common knowlege that the game was going to have duplicate sculpts it's been a known thing since last year.


These models aren't just not up to GW standards, they're well below any other game I've bought in the last few years (although certainly not the worst I've ever seen). I was satisfied with the quality of the starter boxes for Beyond the Gates of Antares and Wrath of Kings, but this set is of lesser quality than both.

And while we knew that there would be duplicate sculpts, I did not expect the models to be basically monopose. I was hoping that the arms would be interchangable, or at least the heads could be turned. Sadly thats not the case. Without significant conversion you're stuck with the exact same 7 models in each set. There are no extra parts or accessories for infantry either. No way to customize the models at all.

I also don't buy into the "you get what you pay for, these models are a lot cheaper than most" argument. These models aren't really cheaper than a lot of the better options out there and I feel like $25 for 7 low quality plastic models isn't actually a great gaming deal. Or at leats not a good enough excuse for low quality.

I haven't had a chance to clean the mold lines yet, so they may not be a big issue at all. I'm assembling the rebels tonight , so I'll see what I think of them, I guess.

Right now I'm really regretting the purchase. Maybe the game play will blow me away, but as someone who mostly plays games for the models I'm hugely disappointed. And since a LOT of people here are saying that they're ONLY buying the game for the models I thought it would be a good idea to share my opinion. If you don't really care about good looking models and are okay with mediocre board game quality or are more interested in the game play than you may not have a problem with these. In which case I imagine you'll be able to pick up a lot of them on ebay for very cheap very soon.

EDIT: I've now assembled the Rebel half of the box. While the quality isn't any better,the Rebels do (in my opinion) have better poses, and the folds and straps of their clothing make for more interesting detail that relies less on crispness than the Stromtrooper's flat armor. I'm still disapointed in the models, but I think the Rebels are definitely better than the Imperials.

Mold line are pretty prevalent (at least in my set), but they are very easy to clean away, so thats a plus.

The walker and Speederbikes are the best part of the set. The soft details matter less for these models, and they're both pleasingly large. So thats nice.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 05:52:28


Post by: Thargrim


 jake wrote:
 Thargrim wrote:
 jake wrote:
The set my housemate pre-ordered arrived yesterday while I was at work. I took a look when I got home and was not impressed. I had really been looking forward to this since I actually like Armada, but the models are really poor. he plastic is sub-par, the details are super soft and mold lines are prevalent. My housemate had assembled the Imperial half of the box, so I didnt get to do that myself, but looking at the unassembled rebels it looks like the models do not have modular parts. You're stuck with the same poses in each set. The poses themselves are pretty bland as well. The models are bigger than the Imperial Assault models, but don't really look any better. They look like mediocre board game models.

I'm extremely disappointed. If you were planning on buying this game for the models I'd really recommend staying away.


Well if you're used to stuff like GW it makes these models seem more toy-like. They seem to be made of an almost pvc/abs type plastic. I haven't had issues cleaning the mold lines but they seem to vary. IMO these are definitely ahead of the IA models, but similar in detail to bolt action minis except Legion is more like an easy to build style. In a way you get what you pay for, these models are a lot cheaper than most, so is the quality. As Sorastros painting guides have shown these models can still look really good with a little bit of effort. It's been basically common knowlege that the game was going to have duplicate sculpts it's been a known thing since last year.


These models aren't just not up to GW standards, they're well below any other game I've bought in the last few years (although certainly not the worst I've ever seen). I was satisfied with the quality of the starter boxes for Beyond the Gates of Antares and Wrath of Kings, but this set is of lesser quality than both.

And while we knew that there would be duplicate sculpts, I did not expect the models to be basically monopose. I was hoping that the arms would be interchangable, or at least the heads could be turned. Sadly thats not the case. Without significant conversion you're stuck with the exact same 7 models in each set. There are no extra parts or accessories for infantry either. No way to customize the models at all.

I also don't buy into the "you get what you pay for, these models are a lot cheaper than most" argument. These models aren't really cheaper than a lot of the better options out there and I feel like $25 for 7 low quality plastic models isn't actually a great gaming deal. Or at leats not a good enough excuse for low quality.

I haven't had a chance to clean the mold lines yet, so they may not be a big issue at all. I'm assembling the rebels tonight , so I'll see what I think of them, I guess.

Right now I'm really regretting the purchase. Maybe the game play will blow me away, but as someone who mostly plays games for the models I'm hugely disappointed. And since a LOT of people here are saying that they're ONLY buying the game for the models I thought it would be a good idea to share my opinion. If you don't really care about good looking models and are okay with mediocre board game quality or are more interested in the game play than you may not have a problem with these. In which case I imagine you'll be able to pick up a lot of them on ebay for very cheap very soon.


Well 20 bucks from discount sellers, but even at 25 it's not that bad for a fully legal unit out of the box with all options. Compared to daughters of khaine, witch aelves...50-60 bucks for a battleline kit and you often run them in blobs of 20. The cost of the legion figures is more comparable to slaanesh daemons though. Well hopefully you like the gameplay, I haven't had a chance to play yet i've only managed to get a couple squads built. I won't lie the gameplay here does strike me as being more accessible than 40k at a glance. I can't get anyone I know to play 40k/AoS but this game is designed differently, less emphasis on numbers, less dice rolls etc. It's kind of refreshing to me to be able to paint very simple models that are also as iconic as a stormtrooper. As you can see with the Idoneth Deepkin, GW keeps going more and more extravagant and flashy and at a certain point it becomes too much for me...(mathlaan avatar) even if on a technical level it's pretty amazing. I kind of like that these models are chunky and sturdy and I could drop them without breaking much of a sweat. Some GW models seem too nice for gaming, I do prefer to collect them than play with em.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 05:57:42


Post by: ScarletRose


Interesting how quality seems so subjective (and so subject to exaggeration) - I was looking at the display board of Legion minis set up at my not so local game store and thought they looked pretty sharp for the material they used. Definitely better than some of the Wrath of Kings minis I've gotten.

As far as a poseability, I dunno FFG is already stepping one step more towards traditional wargaming with having to assemble and paint the minis (compared to say X-wing). I'm wondering if the full GW-esque sprue of a million bits might be something they skipped to avoid alienating the less modelling savvy segment of their audience.

On the other hand GW has been moving back towards monopose with some of their stuff so who knows?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 06:08:02


Post by: Chikout


I must say I'm surprised by how bad some of this stuff looks. The vehicles look pretty good and the infantry looks fine but the characters so far look terrible. Han Solo may be the worst yet.

[Thumb - Screenshot_2018-03-24-14-29-42.png]


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 06:10:01


Post by: Thebiggesthat


Helen Bonham Carter in Planet of the Apes


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 06:13:45


Post by: Thargrim


The characters are pretty meh, I mean Luke is decent but Han and Leia are underwhelming. Could be the paintjob, which certainly isn't helping. But I wonder if they have the likeness rights for the actors. I know these models are designed in cad/digital so you would think they could articulate their likeness a bit better. The snowtroopers look spot on, so do the rebel commandos, but the named characters I will admit are not so good.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 08:23:07


Post by: jake


Chikout wrote:
I must say I'm surprised by how bad some of this stuff looks. The vehicles look pretty good and the infantry looks fine but the characters so far look terrible. Han Solo may be the worst yet.


At first glance I thought that was a Force Awakens era Leia.


 ScarletRose wrote:
Interesting how quality seems so subjective (and so subject to exaggeration) - I was looking at the display board of Legion minis set up at my not so local game store and thought they looked pretty sharp for the material they used. Definitely better than some of the Wrath of Kings minis I've gotten.


Did you get a chance to really look closely at them? I wouldn't say that quality is subjective, but maybe we have different standards or criteria? Also, part of the problem IS the material they use. Its not a kind of plastic that really allows for fine detail. Other companies have gotten good mileage out of it, but in my opinion Fantasy Flight hasn't here. I really think that, even if they wanted to go easy to assemble mono pose models they really should have gone to the trouble of producing higher quality models in a better material. I'm sure some people will be satisfied with these, and thats fine, but for me these models are WAY too far below my standard to want to spend time and money on.

As a side note, I own almost every Wrath of Kings model and while they aren't not the greatest quality miniatures for the most part I think they're better (and in may cases far better) than these Legion models.



Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 09:43:28


Post by: Yodhrin


I mean, they're not resin casts or anything, but based on the videos I've seen they look equivalent to GW plastic kits from a few years ago, like around the same level as the WHF Empire infantry kits. Maybe I just don't have any standards, but that's good enough to earn my money.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 10:44:04


Post by: jake


 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean, they're not resin casts or anything, but based on the videos I've seen they look equivalent to GW plastic kits from a few years ago, like around the same level as the WHF Empire infantry kits. Maybe I just don't have any standards, but that's good enough to earn my money.


Aren't those WHF Empire kits actually fairly old? I'm having trouble finding the release dates, but there's an Amazon review on one of the kits from 2010. Those Empire kits also come with a LOT more parts and are actually fairly customizable, unlike these mono-pose Star Wars models with no extra parts and zero customization. The plastic used in those Empire kits is also better quality. I don't own any of those kits, but assuming they are standard GW quality of the time I think its likely that the casting is much better quality as well, with sharper detail. So honestly I don't think that these Star Wars models look as good as a not particularly great 8+ year old GW kit.

I'm not saying that you don't have standards, and if you like these models and they meet whatever criteria you have for an acceptable purchase thats just fine. But I don't think a reasonable argument can be made that these are not mediocre and relatively low quality models compared to modern standards. Unfortunately I think we have to admit that Fantasy Flight didn't do a particularly great job with the models for this game. Which is pretty disappointing for me, since I really was looking forward to these kits. That doesn't make the game unplayable at all, but it is a big turn off for me and will keep me form making any more purchases. Based on the discussion here since the game was announced and the number of people who are apparently only interested in the models i'm guessing this will be a big disappointment for a large number of potential buyers.

But as gaming pieces they are pretty acceptable. They're super easy to assemble. I think I got the whole Rebel half done in about 30 minutes. They're not fragile and unlikely to fall apart. For board game quality models they look nice enough and have a variety of poses.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 12:54:04


Post by: kodos


Those Empire Kits were a step backwards in quality compared to the previous kits
Monopose with they only options being changeable weapons, more accessory but fixed on the model and not optional etc

The Militia was a better kit quality wise than the new State Troop box

But this were the time GW reduced model count in boxes, made production cheaper and increased prices so most of the kits by that time were not considered "standard" or high quality and were inferior to everything that was made for historical games by that time


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 13:01:51


Post by: His Master's Voice


 kodos wrote:
Those Empire Kits were a step backwards in quality compared to the previous kits


You may prefer your model kits to be more modal, but that's hardly an indication of quality in line with metrics like detail sharpness, casting or material, all of which most certainly did not deteriorate from previous offerings.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 13:24:05


Post by: jake


 His Master's Voice wrote:
 kodos wrote:
Those Empire Kits were a step backwards in quality compared to the previous kits


You may prefer your model kits to be more modal, but that's hardly an indication of quality in line with metrics like detail sharpness, casting or material, all of which most certainly did not deteriorate from previous offerings.


Thats mostly what I mean when I was talking about the quality of the Legion kits. if these are the criteria for model quality (as opposed to playablility, pose, cost or modularity) than they are notably lacking. They're also lacking in modularity, and I think they're poses aren't very good (but thats really subjective).


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 13:28:41


Post by: kodos


 His Master's Voice wrote:

You may prefer your model kits to be more modal, but that's hardly an indication of quality in line with metrics like detail sharpness, casting or material, all of which most certainly did not deteriorate from previous offerings.

of course it is a indication of quality if you get mono pose or modular models
the same like moving part on large model kits

call it quality of design

but if you are just talking about sharpness and mold lines and how good the models fit together than yes, we got the decrease here too.
(and than new GW kits are not special either as they are not superior than anything Mantic makes in plastic if you are just talking about sharpness abd moldlines)


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 13:36:30


Post by: jake


 kodos wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:

You may prefer your model kits to be more modal, but that's hardly an indication of quality in line with metrics like detail sharpness, casting or material, all of which most certainly did not deteriorate from previous offerings.

of course it is a indication of quality if you get mono pose or modular models
the same like moving part on large model kits

call it quality of design

but if you are just talking about sharpness and mold lines and how good the models fit together than yes, we got the decrease here too.
(and than new GW kits are not special either as they are not superior than anything Mantic makes in plastic if you are just talking about sharpness abd moldlines)


out of curiosity, which Mantic kits do you feel are really good examples of this? I've bought a few over the years (although none in the last year) and I haven't been impressed with the quality at all. Or rather, I've found the quality notably inferior to GW kits. The quality isn't awful.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 14:32:05


Post by: angel of death 007


 jake wrote:
 kodos wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:

You may prefer your model kits to be more modal, but that's hardly an indication of quality in line with metrics like detail sharpness, casting or material, all of which most certainly did not deteriorate from previous offerings.

of course it is a indication of quality if you get mono pose or modular models
the same like moving part on large model kits

call it quality of design

but if you are just talking about sharpness and mold lines and how good the models fit together than yes, we got the decrease here too.
(and than new GW kits are not special either as they are not superior than anything Mantic makes in plastic if you are just talking about sharpness abd moldlines)


out of curiosity, which Mantic kits do you feel are really good examples of this? I've bought a few over the years (although none in the last year) and I haven't been impressed with the quality at all. Or rather, I've found the quality notably inferior to GW kits. The quality isn't awful.


It all comes down to you get what you pay for, if you want diamonds buy diamonds, if you are happy with looks like diamonds buy cubic z's. The fact of the matter is yes had GW done starwars they would have been a lot better but a squad of 7 storm troopers would also be around $50 USD. So at half that for rank and file models.... I think it is a no brainer. Some people are happy paying Lexus prices for a Toyota. Others are more reasonable with their money.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 14:33:20


Post by: SnotlingPimpWagon


 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean, they're not resin casts or anything, but based on the videos I've seen they look equivalent to GW plastic kits from a few years ago, like around the same level as the WHF Empire infantry kits. Maybe I just don't have any standards, but that's good enough to earn my money.


If you mean Empire infantry from the 6th ed starter - maybe you`re right. Otherwise I would strongly disagree. State troops have pretty sharp detail, weapons and banners and bling is certainly well done.
I haven`t seen anythong of the like from Legion, but vehicles suffer less and look pretty decent (at least from the photos), IMHO
Straight lines help, I guess


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kodos wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:

You may prefer your model kits to be more modal, but that's hardly an indication of quality in line with metrics like detail sharpness, casting or material, all of which most certainly did not deteriorate from previous offerings.

of course it is a indication of quality if you get mono pose or modular models
the same like moving part on large model kits

call it quality of design

but if you are just talking about sharpness and mold lines and how good the models fit together than yes, we got the decrease here too.
(and than new GW kits are not special either as they are not superior than anything Mantic makes in plastic if you are just talking about sharpness abd moldlines)


I became sceptical of your claims whence I read about Mantic making plastic kits with the same level of sharpness of detail as GW


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 15:03:08


Post by: jake


angel of death 007 wrote:


It all comes down to you get what you pay for, if you want diamonds buy diamonds, if you are happy with looks like diamonds buy cubic z's. The fact of the matter is yes had GW done starwars they would have been a lot better but a squad of 7 storm troopers would also be around $50 USD. So at half that for rank and file models.... I think it is a no brainer. Some people are happy paying Lexus prices for a Toyota. Others are more reasonable with their money.


Yes, you obviously get what you pay for. My argument is that Fantasy Flight could have made something better that I actually would have been excited to pay a little more for. Saying "Its not very good, but it only costs $25" isn't a really compelling argument. It's not a "no brainer" if the models are so poor that I regret buying them.

I know not everyone is going to feel that way, but I do. I want the models I invest my limited resources into to actually be good. I'm not interested in "good enough". Thats why this product has been a letdown for me.






Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 16:36:58


Post by: kodos


I looks like you either get good rules or good models at the moment
It will take a while until I can grap a Box, but if the quality is equal to X-Wing it should be good enough for gaming

but the price includes also the cards which makes the price ok for models+gaming material (not good, but ok)

jake wrote:
out of curiosity, which Mantic kits do you feel are really good examples of this? I've bought a few over the years (although none in the last year) and I haven't been impressed with the quality at all. Or rather, I've found the quality notably inferior to GW kits. The quality isn't awful.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
I became sceptical of your claims whence I read about Mantic making plastic kits with the same level of sharpness of detail as GW


My newest GW kit was the Changeling and some AoS models
For Mantic I got the Enforcer and Abyss

pure manufacturing quality they are equal, sharp details (for plastic), mould lines were less and easier to remove (without killing details) on the Mantic models.
the advantage for the Mantic models was that they are free to pose while the GW models all are monopose but looked better as single model and both did not fit perfectly (Mantic ones because of the poseable joints) and needed Green Stuff.

actually comparing older kits of them, the plastic Elves and Dwarfs from Mantic (have them here too) are also equal to kits GW from the same time period
they were just inferior/different in design and a lot of people on the web reviewed them as bad quality because they did not like the design

comparing the GW basic dwarf warriors, the Mantic ones are superior (the bad High Elves are no longer sold by GW I guess)
And Mantic wants their stuff to look good in regiments which why posable arms are more important than a dynamic single models


But there is just the opinion out there that GW is superior in model quality to everything because they are the most expensive one while they are just equal to everyone else and only superior in design (if you like it)


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 17:13:17


Post by: griffen127


Free Veer or Leia for the Acon team tourney.


[Thumb - IMG_1997.JPG]


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 18:36:33


Post by: Yodhrin


 jake wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean, they're not resin casts or anything, but based on the videos I've seen they look equivalent to GW plastic kits from a few years ago, like around the same level as the WHF Empire infantry kits. Maybe I just don't have any standards, but that's good enough to earn my money.


Aren't those WHF Empire kits actually fairly old? I'm having trouble finding the release dates, but there's an Amazon review on one of the kits from 2010. Those Empire kits also come with a LOT more parts and are actually fairly customizable, unlike these mono-pose Star Wars models with no extra parts and zero customization. The plastic used in those Empire kits is also better quality. I don't own any of those kits, but assuming they are standard GW quality of the time I think its likely that the casting is much better quality as well, with sharper detail. So honestly I don't think that these Star Wars models look as good as a not particularly great 8+ year old GW kit.

I'm not saying that you don't have standards, and if you like these models and they meet whatever criteria you have for an acceptable purchase thats just fine. But I don't think a reasonable argument can be made that these are not mediocre and relatively low quality models compared to modern standards. Unfortunately I think we have to admit that Fantasy Flight didn't do a particularly great job with the models for this game. Which is pretty disappointing for me, since I really was looking forward to these kits. That doesn't make the game unplayable at all, but it is a big turn off for me and will keep me form making any more purchases. Based on the discussion here since the game was announced and the number of people who are apparently only interested in the models i'm guessing this will be a big disappointment for a large number of potential buyers.

But as gaming pieces they are pretty acceptable. They're super easy to assemble. I think I got the whole Rebel half done in about 30 minutes. They're not fragile and unlikely to fall apart. For board game quality models they look nice enough and have a variety of poses.


My criteria for an acceptable purchase is different based on what I'm making the purchase for. Sometimes I want maximum bitz, sometimes pose variety, sometimes a specific aesthetic, but while I'd usually almost always prefer either HIPS or resin the actual material is less important to me so long as the models will do what I want them to do. In this case, I want them to look like reasonable quality Star Wars models and based on what I've seen I think they meet that standard.

I mean, for all I know FFG shat the bed and shipped out loads of boxes full of sub-par final product, but when I look at the painting videos with production plastics on YouTube I just don't see what you're seeing, I don't see "mediocre low quality models". If you've got your phone handy, maybe you could take a few pictures and show us what you mean.

EDIT: I mean, yeah, I look at that pic of Veers and I don't see a model of particularly lesser quality than the newer Empire plastic infantry, or the ME Broken boxed set. The folds in the fabric are clearly defined, smaller detailing like armour clasps are visible, the gun has detailing, the face has fully defined features. If you put the exact same design through an injection-molded HIPS design and production process you would get marginally better definition on some areas like the rank bar, but I'd wager folding money that if you took such a model and this one, painted them to the same standard, and did a "Pepsi Challenge" comparison a lot of the people arguing the Legion kits are "melted" etc wouldn't have a clue which was which.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 18:37:23


Post by: SnotlingPimpWagon


 kodos wrote:
I looks like you either get good rules or good models at the moment
It will take a while until I can grap a Box, but if the quality is equal to X-Wing it should be good enough for gaming

but the price includes also the cards which makes the price ok for models+gaming material (not good, but ok)

jake wrote:
out of curiosity, which Mantic kits do you feel are really good examples of this? I've bought a few over the years (although none in the last year) and I haven't been impressed with the quality at all. Or rather, I've found the quality notably inferior to GW kits. The quality isn't awful.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
I became sceptical of your claims whence I read about Mantic making plastic kits with the same level of sharpness of detail as GW


My newest GW kit was the Changeling and some AoS models
For Mantic I got the Enforcer and Abyss

pure manufacturing quality they are equal, sharp details (for plastic), mould lines were less and easier to remove (without killing details) on the Mantic models.
the advantage for the Mantic models was that they are free to pose while the GW models all are monopose but looked better as single model and both did not fit perfectly (Mantic ones because of the poseable joints) and needed Green Stuff.

actually comparing older kits of them, the plastic Elves and Dwarfs from Mantic (have them here too) are also equal to kits GW from the same time period
they were just inferior/different in design and a lot of people on the web reviewed them as bad quality because they did not like the design

comparing the GW basic dwarf warriors, the Mantic ones are superior (the bad High Elves are no longer sold by GW I guess)
And Mantic wants their stuff to look good in regiments which why posable arms are more important than a dynamic single models


But there is just the opinion out there that GW is superior in model quality to everything because they are the most expensive one while they are just equal to everyone else and only superior in design (if you like it)


1) GW are not the most expensive
2) I`ve held mantic minis (dwarves with guns) alongside GWs (dwarves with guns) and I can`t agree with that sharpness is the same : Mantics dwarves are inferior
3) Just judging by pics on the internet Abyss or Enforces don`t look like GW quality to me in terms of detail sharpness and design. A good comparison would be Neopytes/Skitarii and plastic bloodletters. Guess which one look like have finer features
4) There are better minis, than GW, but none come close in the medium of plastic (unless it`s wyrd miniatures, but you`d hate them - they have no posability)

When it comes to legion: the state of minis looks worse, than Mantic Enforces. But a fair comparison would be Something of PVC as well: it would be interesting to see Legion alongside Bloodrage or Rising Sun or The World of Smog (in one photo)...
Judging by the pics on the net the duel is lost by FFG again (and I`m not talking about master sculpts CMON likes to show instead of real minis they sell)


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/24 22:03:50


Post by: Ruglud


Dodgy Han aside...

When your face is a prune, then action goes BOOM!"

Well played FFG with this model...


Spoiler:



I'm liking the Rebel Strike Team
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/3/23/rebel-strike-team/


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 09:00:36


Post by: jake


It looks like at least one of these models is just a Trooper from the first set with a cloak sculpted on.



its harder to tell with the others. Some of them look like they may be older sculpts with cloaks, and possibly new heads or arms. A few of them look like they're older sculpts that have been mirrored. But as I said, its hard to tell.

Variety is really nice, but there's no good reason to be repeating sculpts like this.



Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 12:25:37


Post by: Elbows


I was actually hoping it'd be like old GI Joes and Star Wars figures, where the minis plastic, and the cape is a tiny piece of felt.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 15:23:21


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 jake wrote:
 kodos wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:

You may prefer your model kits to be more modal, but that's hardly an indication of quality in line with metrics like detail sharpness, casting or material, all of which most certainly did not deteriorate from previous offerings.

of course it is a indication of quality if you get mono pose or modular models
the same like moving part on large model kits

call it quality of design

but if you are just talking about sharpness and mold lines and how good the models fit together than yes, we got the decrease here too.
(and than new GW kits are not special either as they are not superior than anything Mantic makes in plastic if you are just talking about sharpness abd moldlines)


out of curiosity, which Mantic kits do you feel are really good examples of this? I've bought a few over the years (although none in the last year) and I haven't been impressed with the quality at all. Or rather, I've found the quality notably inferior to GW kits. The quality isn't awful.


GCPS marines and the Asterian Marionettes.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 16:13:48


Post by: angel of death 007


 jake wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:


It all comes down to you get what you pay for, if you want diamonds buy diamonds, if you are happy with looks like diamonds buy cubic z's. The fact of the matter is yes had GW done starwars they would have been a lot better but a squad of 7 storm troopers would also be around $50 USD. So at half that for rank and file models.... I think it is a no brainer. Some people are happy paying Lexus prices for a Toyota. Others are more reasonable with their money.


Yes, you obviously get what you pay for. My argument is that Fantasy Flight could have made something better that I actually would have been excited to pay a little more for. Saying "Its not very good, but it only costs $25" isn't a really compelling argument. It's not a "no brainer" if the models are so poor that I regret buying them.

I know not everyone is going to feel that way, but I do. I want the models I invest my limited resources into to actually be good. I'm not interested in "good enough". Thats why this product has been a letdown for me.


At the end of the day you are going to have people who are going to get them to play with for the game... these models may or may not be painted more then likely won't be. And seeing how it is meant to be a multi minature wargame several boxes of squads or whatever add up and are needed to make an army much like GW.

The other way to look at it is for people who want to collect or display. Here is where painting and conversion comes in big. They are not painting one model and putting it under a magnifying glass on a display they are painting several. So are you only going to paint 3 or 4 storm troopers or will you want like 20. A dileramma is a bit different then I can understand this but even for those they require a lot of modifications on the original models.

So to play an army based game lets look at the pros and cons. Having to buy multiple rank and file models... Legion wins here, cheaper prices... oh and wait... Legion also comes with everything to use the models in the box. So if you want a squad of storm troopers you buy a squad of storm troopers for $20 (online) or $25 in store.

GW... you want a squad.. you buy one to 4 boxes of models at $30-50 each box, a $40 ish dollar codex, just to use said models, and pay an extra $15 if you want their cards... So basically min around $70 to field one squad or up to around $240... and this is just 1 squad of rank and file troopers.

I really don't see your argument, if you are getting them for gaming then you can get an army or the majority of it for the cost of one squad which you need numerous others to play. I am saying that if you want army scale wargaming and you have a budget, this gives you an option that GW just doesn't offer. This could be the game for the every man.... where GW is geared toward the plastic crack addicts who will pay anything to get their fix.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 18:16:33


Post by: Ben2


I think you are very much over egging the affordability.

The starter is still £80 without discount and you likely want two of them because of dice and accessories and a need for basic troops. 800 points as the standard game size pushes you towards needing those sort of numbers for basic troops, and using any of the alternate and cheaper commanders creates a bigger need for more troop squads.

Having now handled the models, they are on a par with Mantics restic offerings as seen in Deadzone. They are nowhere near the quality of GW, and will need bending with hot water to get things like lightsabers straight. I'll even need to bend the barricades.



Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 18:48:38


Post by: ElvisJuice


Glad I passed on this now. FFG just aren't up to doing a mass battle tabletop game to modern standards.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 18:54:57


Post by: Smellingsalts


I think if you are a painter or modeler this game is not for you. There are metal kits and plastic model kits for Star Wars and they are great. Having said that, in my store we have sold a ton of this game. It is blowing up like x-wing did. I am 54 and tired of assembling model kits to play miniatures games. There are many who don't care for the hobby aspect of miniatures and just want to play. I think this game is for them. Next weekend we will have a battle for Hoth bring and battle using At At's from the Wizards of the coast Star wars game. It should be a lot of fun!


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 19:13:16


Post by: kodos


You want the starter box twice, but you also most likely share them with someone or sell the part you don't want
So we count it once, using the boxes we have at the start you are at 125€ for a standard size army (Starter + another HQ + another Troop)

Than we are adding another Hero, vehicle and special Troops to get some variation and maybe another set of dice

200€ and you are done

If it is cheap will depend on if WYSIWYG is a thing for official gameplay and if conversion are allowed (like using the Maelstroms Edge Box to add some Aliens and increase the amount of Troopers you own for cheap)
And of course if you would need to buy some upgrade Boxes later just for a single model or a card

It could expensive very fast if power creep enter the game and you need to spend 25€ just to get a single mode with the card (hello GW plastic heroes)


Comparing it to 40k is not really a thing as the game size is very different, but:
Death Guard: Starter Box twice and selling what we don't need (so count it once), Codex and Cards, and another Box (Vehicle) = 200€ and we are ~250 points short for standard game level
So we end up we 300€ to enter the game with no variation at all and are limited to 2 factions (Primaris or Death Guard) to get that price (for everything else we start at 400-500€)


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 21:12:30


Post by: Yodhrin


Smellingsalts wrote:
I think if you are a painter or modeler this game is not for you. There are metal kits and plastic model kits for Star Wars and they are great. Having said that, in my store we have sold a ton of this game. It is blowing up like x-wing did. I am 54 and tired of assembling model kits to play miniatures games. There are many who don't care for the hobby aspect of miniatures and just want to play. I think this game is for them. Next weekend we will have a battle for Hoth bring and battle using At At's from the Wizards of the coast Star wars game. It should be a lot of fun!


I still disagree with this. 90% of my hobby is modelling and I can't match up what I see(pretty cool, could be sharper here or there but they look like what they're supposed to, Han aside) with how some folk are describing them(ermahgerd, they're melting, meeeeeelllllttiiiiing). I swear some folk seem to have never bought anything except GW plastic model kits designed and produced within the last 5-10 years.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 21:34:46


Post by: Vertrucio


The ladies doth protest too much methinks.

A lot of arguments used, which are valid, but so much one sided posting it's laughable.

Legion isn't the next coming of The Emperor, but it's not the downfall of the Empire with what people are saying.

The quality is just fine for tabletop miniatures from what I have in hand. The amount of modeling I'd need to do is no different from 90% of what I'd have to do for other games, GW included.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 22:16:29


Post by: Sarigar


For @ $200 I have 2 x 800 point armies which is the standard army size. It also includes everything I need to play. Pretty good value IMO.

The models are not at current GW quality, but I also think this is on purpose. These models are very easy and quick to assemble. In a pinch, assemble and play all in a single day.

Looking at some of my older GW models still in production (Warp Spiders for example), I think the mini quality is just fine, especially for the price point. Not that I am one, but talented painters can do a lot with these

Not say it will surpass 40K, but the game is refreshing and a nice change of pace.



Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 23:22:50


Post by: complex57


Got my hands on some of them today, I was pleasantly surprised with the models.

I might grab some of them up, but I have a lot of other things that need taking care of first.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/25 23:52:16


Post by: Imhotepmagi


I don't know what everyone is making a fuss about. The minis are just fine.

[Thumb - IMG_20180324_170407.jpg]


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 00:00:09


Post by: Neronoxx


ElvisJuice wrote:
Glad I passed on this now. FFG just aren't up to doing a mass battle tabletop game to modern standards.


Legion is a skirmish game?
WTF is your definition of mass battle?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jake wrote:
It looks like at least one of these models is just a Trooper from the first set with a cloak sculpted on.



its harder to tell with the others. Some of them look like they may be older sculpts with cloaks, and possibly new heads or arms. A few of them look like they're older sculpts that have been mirrored. But as I said, its hard to tell.

Variety is really nice, but there's no good reason to be repeating sculpts like this.


I doubt its a resculpt (still not bothered too much if it is tbh) but there are only so many ways to do that pose, it could just be a similar sculpt.
Tbf if it is a resculpt that's pretty cheap of ffg though.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 05:14:21


Post by: Stormonu


Does anyone remember the Star Wars Command figures? I was cleaning up my game room and found a ton of them I'd bought when the price tanked on them a few years back.

I wonder if they're about the right size for Legion?

S'blocked for size...
Spoiler:




Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 05:48:37


Post by: jake


angel of death 007 wrote:
 jake wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:


It all comes down to you get what you pay for, if you want diamonds buy diamonds, if you are happy with looks like diamonds buy cubic z's. The fact of the matter is yes had GW done starwars they would have been a lot better but a squad of 7 storm troopers would also be around $50 USD. So at half that for rank and file models.... I think it is a no brainer. Some people are happy paying Lexus prices for a Toyota. Others are more reasonable with their money.


Yes, you obviously get what you pay for. My argument is that Fantasy Flight could have made something better that I actually would have been excited to pay a little more for. Saying "Its not very good, but it only costs $25" isn't a really compelling argument. It's not a "no brainer" if the models are so poor that I regret buying them.

I know not everyone is going to feel that way, but I do. I want the models I invest my limited resources into to actually be good. I'm not interested in "good enough". Thats why this product has been a letdown for me.


At the end of the day you are going to have people who are going to get them to play with for the game... these models may or may not be painted more then likely won't be. And seeing how it is meant to be a multi minature wargame several boxes of squads or whatever add up and are needed to make an army much like GW.

The other way to look at it is for people who want to collect or display. Here is where painting and conversion comes in big. They are not painting one model and putting it under a magnifying glass on a display they are painting several. So are you only going to paint 3 or 4 storm troopers or will you want like 20. A dileramma is a bit different then I can understand this but even for those they require a lot of modifications on the original models.

So to play an army based game lets look at the pros and cons. Having to buy multiple rank and file models... Legion wins here, cheaper prices... oh and wait... Legion also comes with everything to use the models in the box. So if you want a squad of storm troopers you buy a squad of storm troopers for $20 (online) or $25 in store.

GW... you want a squad.. you buy one to 4 boxes of models at $30-50 each box, a $40 ish dollar codex, just to use said models, and pay an extra $15 if you want their cards... So basically min around $70 to field one squad or up to around $240... and this is just 1 squad of rank and file troopers.

I really don't see your argument, if you are getting them for gaming then you can get an army or the majority of it for the cost of one squad which you need numerous others to play. I am saying that if you want army scale wargaming and you have a budget, this gives you an option that GW just doesn't offer. This could be the game for the every man.... where GW is geared toward the plastic crack addicts who will pay anything to get their fix.


Fantasy Flight could have produced better quality models without resorting to GW prices. Lots of companies do. If you find these models acceptable, thats fine for you. And probably a lot of other people. But their quality is notably sub-par compared to many, many other miniatures lines, not just GWs stuff. Wouldn't it have been nice if Fantasy Flight HAD made better quality models for this game? Wouldn't you have preferred that? Wouldn't everyone? I think they could have done a better job and still kept the price point the same or not much higher. I don't really understand the "I don't want better models" argument. If mediocre models are good enough for gaming than surely good models are better, right? And if you can have good models for the same price (or maybe slightly more) why would you want mediocre ones?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Neronoxx wrote:
ElvisJuice wrote:
Glad I passed on this now. FFG just aren't up to doing a mass battle tabletop game to modern standards.


Legion is a skirmish game?
WTF is your definition of mass battle?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jake wrote:
It looks like at least one of these models is just a Trooper from the first set with a cloak sculpted on.



its harder to tell with the others. Some of them look like they may be older sculpts with cloaks, and possibly new heads or arms. A few of them look like they're older sculpts that have been mirrored. But as I said, its hard to tell.

Variety is really nice, but there's no good reason to be repeating sculpts like this.


I doubt its a resculpt (still not bothered too much if it is tbh) but there are only so many ways to do that pose, it could just be a similar sculpt.
Tbf if it is a resculpt that's pretty cheap of ffg though.


its literally the same model with a cloak sculpted over it. If you own the model and compare it to the photo its REALLY obvious. Its not just a similar pose.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 05:55:30


Post by: ScarletRose


Fantasy Flight could have produced better quality models without resorting to GW prices. Lots of companies do. If you find these models acceptable, thats fine for you. And probably a lot of other people. But their quality is notably sub-par compared to many, many other miniatures lines, not just GWs stuff. Wouldn't it have been nice if Fantasy Flight HAD made better quality models for this game? Wouldn't you have preferred that? Wouldn't everyone? I think they could have done a better job and still kept the price point the same or not much higher. I don't really understand the "I don't want better models" argument. If mediocre models are good enough for gaming than surely good models are better, right? And if you can have good models for the same price (or maybe slightly more) why would you want mediocre ones?


So... is the theory here that repeating the word 'mediocre' over and over will somehow change other people's opinions? Seems like wishful thinking tbh.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 06:06:26


Post by: Yodhrin


You've yet to demonstrate that they're "mediocre" by any objective standard, just in your opinion. Which is fine, you're entitled to it, but unless you can actually demonstrate all these "many, many other" superior plastic miniature lines, or show in what way specifically the Legions models are "mediocre" there's no reason for anyone to treat it as more than that.

To my eye, these are not mediocre:





They're not the greatest models ever to grace the face of planet earth, but they look like what they're supposed to look like, they're well detailed, and that detail is sufficiently sharp and deep that I can use the same painting techniques I use on GW models and get solid results.

Now like I said, for all I know FFG shipped out a lot of sub-par product and you got a dud box or something, but if you're looking at photos like that and telling me the subjects are "mediocre" and lacking detail, that they're substantially worse than most other plastic wargaming models floating around out there, I'd have to suggest it's your standards that are unreasonable rather than ours.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 06:31:34


Post by: jake


 ScarletRose wrote:
Fantasy Flight could have produced better quality models without resorting to GW prices. Lots of companies do. If you find these models acceptable, thats fine for you. And probably a lot of other people. But their quality is notably sub-par compared to many, many other miniatures lines, not just GWs stuff. Wouldn't it have been nice if Fantasy Flight HAD made better quality models for this game? Wouldn't you have preferred that? Wouldn't everyone? I think they could have done a better job and still kept the price point the same or not much higher. I don't really understand the "I don't want better models" argument. If mediocre models are good enough for gaming than surely good models are better, right? And if you can have good models for the same price (or maybe slightly more) why would you want mediocre ones?


So... is the theory here that repeating the word 'mediocre' over and over will somehow change other people's opinions? Seems like wishful thinking tbh.


I'm just stating my own. Obviously different people are going to have different standards, and some people simply won't care about sharper details, better quality plastic or cleaner casting (for any number of reasons). And thats fine. But if you do care about that stuff and you were hoping for a set of well done, quality models, I think its understandable to be disappointed.

For those of you who don't actually own the models yet but think they look great based on Fantasy Flight's photos or videos of models given to painters before the release, I'd really recommend taking a close look at the models in person before you decide to buy (or buy more than you already have.

I've said enough n this topic. I hope none of you regret your purchases and I hope you enjoy the game.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 06:39:55


Post by: ScarletRose


 jake wrote:


I've said enough n this topic. I hope none of you regret your purchases and I hope you enjoy the game.


And the grapes were probably sour anyway...

--


To my eye, these are not mediocre:


Thanks for more pics. It looks like a few mold lines and maybe some greenstuff on the shoulder joints, but it shouldn't be a problem at all.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 07:06:06


Post by: ElvisJuice


Neronoxx wrote:
ElvisJuice wrote:
Glad I passed on this now. FFG just aren't up to doing a mass battle tabletop game to modern standards.


Legion is a skirmish game?
WTF is your definition of mass battle?


Lol, no it isn't. Imperial Assault is a skirmish game. Legion is a wargame, multiple squads and vehicles per side. And I was using mass battle as a catch-all to include this and that cruddy Runewars thing they did, since that's another example of a (in my opinion, I realise this is subjective, please calm down) bold attempt let down by the models.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 07:17:39


Post by: Thebiggesthat


Are there any other companies making star wars minis? I had another game yesterday and liking the system more and more. But those minis stink.

Happy to pay a premium for better, has anyone got any good leads?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 08:29:37


Post by: AndrewGPaul


ElvisJuice wrote:
Neronoxx wrote:
ElvisJuice wrote:
Glad I passed on this now. FFG just aren't up to doing a mass battle tabletop game to modern standards.


Legion is a skirmish game?
WTF is your definition of mass battle?


Lol, no it isn't. Imperial Assault is a skirmish game. Legion is a wargame, multiple squads and vehicles per side. And I was using mass battle as a catch-all to include this and that cruddy Runewars thing they did, since that's another example of a (in my opinion, I realise this is subjective, please calm down) bold attempt let down by the models.


There's no ISO committee to define terminology; it's pretty common to describe a game as a "skirmish game" if the models are individually based. Others take it to mean a game with a small model count, or alternatively one where models are not grouped into units. All three of those definithions can overlap, but have significant differences too.

A confrontation involving twenty soldiers and a single light recce vehicle is a skirmish, really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Smellingsalts wrote:
I think if you are a painter or modeler this game is not for you. There are metal kits and plastic model kits for Star Wars and they are great.


I know there's model kits available from Revell, but metal models? Only West End Games, WotC and Knight models ever made metal Star Wars miniatures to my knowledge, and they're all long out of production.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thebiggesthat wrote:
Are there any other companies making star wars minis? I had another game yesterday and liking the system more and more. But those minis stink.

Happy to pay a premium for better, has anyone got any good leads?


At the moment, the only people making Star Wars infantry models are Fantasy Flight Games and LEGO. And whoever it is makes the 4" toys these days.

The Wizkids pre-painted collectible figures should still be reasonably easy to come by on Ebay, but they're not "better". Knight Models made some good miniatures, but the range was limited (A squad of five Stormtroopers, a squad of five Sandtroopers, two Royal Guard, a Scouttrooper on speeder bike and Darth Vader for the Imperials, and RotJ Luke, ANH Leia, ANH Han and ESB Chewie with disassembled Threepio for the Rebels, plus Boba Fett and a load of Clone Wars Jedi and battle droids). Nice for painting, useless for gaming.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 09:13:12


Post by: TwilightSparkles


My ten cents worth: for the price - and in the UK the comparison to GW is much closer - it's pretty good. The models don't require much cleanup - I did 2 cores worth of rebels and the speeder in under an hour and no parts required straightening. The monopose issue is easily sorted - snip off the connector peg and just glue in the hole as required. I managed to give all 4 squad leaders a different look just by doing this .

Granted it seems quality control is an issue but this is not unique to FFG and is also seen with Warlord, mantic and Privateer, to name a few. GW quality control is excellent and in 25 years of buying I've had 2 sprue issues and one mispack.

It's actually nice to have a game where it doesnt require assembling 100 odd bits to make ten troopers.

The rebrl spec ops look good, they're realistic in the context of the universe - and it's cool you have s couple of unit options in the box with the rules / cards. Han will, I think , have a dual slot option.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 09:19:15


Post by: Thebiggesthat


Oh I absolutely agree with the ease of building thing, as someone that has built 30 primaris, each one with about 20 bits, I like an easy assemble mini.

But it's just the lack of detail. And the miscasting.

I think I'll just end up accepting it, and enjoying the gameplay.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 09:33:30


Post by: Yodhrin


 ScarletRose wrote:
 jake wrote:


I've said enough n this topic. I hope none of you regret your purchases and I hope you enjoy the game.


And the grapes were probably sour anyway...

--


To my eye, these are not mediocre:


Thanks for more pics. It looks like a few mold lines and maybe some greenstuff on the shoulder joints, but it shouldn't be a problem at all.


NP, and note that they are not FFG promo pics but from a review, though obviously there's still a danger FFG chose the best possible casts for all the review copies it sent out or which just happened to be bought by reviewers and Elvis is working at a game store in North Dakota etc etc EDIT: And if someone has got a gak quality box, why just accept it? The promo and review images out there are pretty universally similar, if the models you were sold don't meet that standard then contact the retailer and demand a replacement.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 12:40:15


Post by: Pugnacious_Cee


I pre-ordered and have now assembled all of my Rebels.

As someone who has handled/assembled/painted miniatures from at least 30+ lines over the last 15 years, these minis are the jam. They're solid, they're clean, they're easy to assemble, they have minimal (and easily fixed) mold lines, and the sculpts are really sharp. Even the bases are really nice and thick/solid.

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 13:18:10


Post by: Thebiggesthat


I've had them in my hand. I've assembled models from most game systems released in the last 10 years, and painted on commission for quite a few.

It's opinion. More importantly, it's what you as a hobbyist is happy with. But you are no more right than me or anyone else in this thread


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 13:25:19


Post by: Chikout


 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:
I pre-ordered and have now assembled all of my Rebels.

As someone who has handled/assembled/painted miniatures from at least 30+ lines over the last 15 years, these minis are the jam. They're solid, they're clean, they're easy to assemble, they have minimal (and easily fixed) mold lines, and the sculpts are really sharp. Even the bases are really nice and thick/solid.

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.

As I said earlier it is the character models that are the problem. The vehicles look great and the troops look decent but the character models look really poor.
In most games the character models get the most attention and the best sculpts, but the opposite is true here. The faces are the worst part but the poses are not great either.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 13:29:21


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I'd bet that they don't have the nessesary personal image likenesses from the actors (or actors estates) to actually have the characters who aren't; covered in masks/makeup look like the people, you see much the same problem with action figures etc

If we ever get to the new movies they probably will as the movie companies are much better about tying that sort of stuff up nowadays when a lot of blockbusters make as much in toys and other merch as in ticket sales


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 14:08:34


Post by: LunarSol


 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.


A lot of FFGs promo material doesn't have the best paint jobs and for whatever reason makes them look a lot shorter than they are in person. From the pictures I've seen I was expecting something squatty like the Walking Dead minis. In person they stand out better, they're taller and feel better proportioned and the faces feel like there's better detail to work with. I have been finding more and more that people are often fooled by exceptional paint jobs or blown up renders and the FFG pictures definitely aren't pulling that trick.

That said, they're not GREAT by any means. They are the newer PVC that's harder and holds detail better than the soft stuff we saw at the dawn of Kickstarter, but they're still PVC for the most part. They're easy to work with though and look properly iconic once you get some paint on them and that makes the whole thing more exciting than it would be otherwise. It's also worth noting that the larger stuff is made in a nicer styrene. It's done thicker than GW or Wyrd and feels closer to PP's stuff, but it means stuff like the AT-ST is sporting nice sharp lines and the speeder bikes are pretty spot on perfect.

Anyway, overall I'm happy with my purchase, but a lot of that is because the game itself is fun. The models are good enough and I was pretty happy with what I was able to pull out of this guy:
Spoiler:





Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 14:09:32


Post by: Krinsath


I'd rate the models as "middling" myself; they look like they're supposed to and are slightly more detailed than what one would find in a true mass-market offering. Someone said they're reminiscent of Mantic's initial DeadZone offerings and that's about where I'd situate them myself. Nothing to be ashamed of from a gaming perspective, but unlikely to be something where individual models really get held up as display pieces, especially the characters who I think Orlando has the right of that they're not actually allowed to make them look like the actors.

They're not up to the standards of a high-end GW kit, but it's also not priced as such. I do think that in terms of detailing/execution, Dreamforge's stormtroopers are far superior, but they're not "the" Star Wars stormtrooper either (for obvious reasons). They can (obviously) still be made to look nice, but I think they are a comparatively weaker foundation for it than other offerings. Grey Knights, as an example, can be made to look very nice with minimal skills because the foundation provided by the model is that much stronger. With Legion it feels like the onus is much more on the painter to make them look their best, and the ceiling of how good they can be made to look is likely a bit lower. At the end of the day though, they're being manufactured to be gaming pieces and not display pieces per se, so that will likely be sufficient for the market.

While most of the infantry models assemble easily enough, I do wonder if the AT-ST and similar kits will be off-putting to the board game crowd. I've heard anecdotes that there's a good chance for resistance to even the assembly of the infantry in that segment of the market.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 14:23:22


Post by: LunarSol


 Krinsath wrote:

While most of the infantry models assemble easily enough, I do wonder if the AT-ST and similar kits will be off-putting to the board game crowd. I've heard anecdotes that there's a good chance for resistance to even the assembly of the infantry in that segment of the market.


They did a surprising amount of assembly ahead of time. The AT-ST head, for example, is obviously a 12ish piece sprue and comes completely assembled. The speeder bikes too have some parts already done. Not that that matters to people that panic at the sight of super glue, but just something that surprised me when I was putting it together.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 14:27:26


Post by: JimmyWolf87


 LunarSol wrote:
 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.


A lot of FFGs promo material doesn't have the best paint jobs and for whatever reason makes them look a lot shorter than they are in person. From the pictures I've seen I was expecting something squatty like the Walking Dead minis. In person they stand out better, they're taller and feel better proportioned and the faces feel like there's better detail to work with. I have been finding more and more that people are often fooled by exceptional paint jobs or blown up renders and the FFG pictures definitely aren't pulling that trick.

That said, they're not GREAT by any means. They are the newer PVC that's harder and holds detail better than the soft stuff we saw at the dawn of Kickstarter, but they're still PVC for the most part. They're easy to work with though and look properly iconic once you get some paint on them and that makes the whole thing more exciting than it would be otherwise. It's also worth noting that the larger stuff is made in a nicer styrene. It's done thicker than GW or Wyrd and feels closer to PP's stuff, but it means stuff like the AT-ST is sporting nice sharp lines and the speeder bikes are pretty spot on perfect.

Anyway, overall I'm happy with my purchase, but a lot of that is because the game itself is fun. The models are good enough and I was pretty happy with what I was able to pull out of this guy:
Spoiler:





Well done on that paint job. Captures it brilliantly.

My only gripe with the model (not your efforts) is the usual FFG 'droop' on the lightsaber. It's like watching Spaceballs.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 14:48:23


Post by: Dr_Keenbean


The droop is easily countered by just dipping it in hot water for a few seconds. The assembly guide even says as much. In the case of both sabers from the core set mine straightened right out on their own in the hot water with no need to fiddle. PVC isn't the best medium but this is some of the better PVC I've dealt with.

I also really like the scale and I feel like the detail is exactly where it needs to be and channels the source material perfectly. I like that the minis don't have to be overburdened with skulls, scrollwork, sculpted smoke like Warhammer stuff nor straps, buckles, bags, etc like Infinity stuff. That isn't a dig on those visual styles as I play and paint those games as well.

I painted up my Vader in about 2 hours of the most fun, least stressful painting I've had in the last 27 years of painting minis:
Spoiler:


Did any news or previews come out of Adepticon for Legion or are we still too close to the initial release? I'd really love to hear if they intend to release minis for other eras in the future. I want some First Order stormtroopers!


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 15:31:59


Post by: LunarSol


JimmyWolf87 wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.


A lot of FFGs promo material doesn't have the best paint jobs and for whatever reason makes them look a lot shorter than they are in person. From the pictures I've seen I was expecting something squatty like the Walking Dead minis. In person they stand out better, they're taller and feel better proportioned and the faces feel like there's better detail to work with. I have been finding more and more that people are often fooled by exceptional paint jobs or blown up renders and the FFG pictures definitely aren't pulling that trick.

That said, they're not GREAT by any means. They are the newer PVC that's harder and holds detail better than the soft stuff we saw at the dawn of Kickstarter, but they're still PVC for the most part. They're easy to work with though and look properly iconic once you get some paint on them and that makes the whole thing more exciting than it would be otherwise. It's also worth noting that the larger stuff is made in a nicer styrene. It's done thicker than GW or Wyrd and feels closer to PP's stuff, but it means stuff like the AT-ST is sporting nice sharp lines and the speeder bikes are pretty spot on perfect.

Anyway, overall I'm happy with my purchase, but a lot of that is because the game itself is fun. The models are good enough and I was pretty happy with what I was able to pull out of this guy:
Spoiler:





Well done on that paint job. Captures it brilliantly.

My only gripe with the model (not your efforts) is the usual FFG 'droop' on the lightsaber. It's like watching Spaceballs.


Thanks! Definitely could have straightened the saber but in person I find it only really noticeable from certain angles and I rushed him a bit to make sure I got him primed while the weather was still permitting.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 15:34:49


Post by: Sqorgar


Miniature quality aside, has anyone actually played the game yet? It came out a while ago, but I have yet to see anybody say whether the game itself is worth playing. I've only seen reviews from board gamers, and even those weren't exactly overwhelmed with excitement.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 15:37:51


Post by: Kalamadea


I'd argue that they're right where they need to be for detail vs ease of use. Remember, there's going to be a lot of new people that have never touched a model before, just because of the Star Wars brand. The figures assemble very quickly and have plenty of deep, relatively sharp detail for the material. I bought heavily into Deadzone KS, and this PVC is miles ahead of that. The style and scale is a fair bit cartoony, maybe that's where the complaints are coming from?

That stinks some people aren't happy, but I'm glad I'm not one of them. I spent my weekend building and painting my core set and like the models enough I already ordered a second core set. I'm perfectly content with the level of detail vs the time expenditure to get them on table.

There's an online list builder that has the cards scanned already, so I'll likely just print out the cards and use my WotC AT-STs and snowspeeders, so a complete game for 2 players for $140. And it's FREAKING STAR WARS! I don't feel like that aspect is mentioned enough


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sqorgar wrote:
Miniature quality aside, has anyone actually played the game yet? It came out a while ago, but I have yet to see anybody say whether the game itself is worth playing. I've only seen reviews from board gamers, and even those weren't exactly overwhelmed with excitement.


there's been a few people that mentioned playing it just a few posts ago and said they enjoyed it. My FLGS was completely sold out by the time I stopped in yesterday, but there were two of the 40k players doing a single core set game and after they finished they both went up to the counter and ordered enough for a full army, if that's any indicator.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 16:02:02


Post by: LunarSol


 Sqorgar wrote:
Miniature quality aside, has anyone actually played the game yet? It came out a while ago, but I have yet to see anybody say whether the game itself is worth playing. I've only seen reviews from board gamers, and even those weren't exactly overwhelmed with excitement.


It came out Thurs.

That said, a lot of people have played it because demo copies went out a couple weeks ago. I personally was very on the fence until I played the demo. The gameplay sold me on it more than the models (I actually kind of shy away from painting licensed models for fear of not getting the colors right).

My first impression of the game was that it was basically someone's personal "if I made 40k this is how I'd fix it" game. Alternating activations because those are popular but otherwise just move, roll to hit, armor save, standard stuff. What sold me on the game was the suppression system. It works on a couple levels. When you shoot at something, they are likely to lose an action when they activate but they also gain cover and become harder to kill. What this does in practice is break up the value in focus firing things off the table and makes it more worthwhile to spread damage around, both because attacking causes a debuff and because there's less value in attacking something with the cover bonus. It breaks up a lot of the usual decisions in alternating activations, as sometimes its best to let a wounded unit die to activate a unit before its suppressed or attacking something you can't kill just because doing so will likely prevent it from getting to where it needs to go.

The other surprising aspect of this is just how easy it is to make units flee. Courage stats on units are super low, but they can use their commander's while in range. This in a lot of ways creates something that feels similar to how Warmachine works, with units needing to stay within your leader's control and even a bit of an assassination system, where you can kill the commander to make units break and flee.

The game certainly needs more variety, but the built in scenario system is better than a lot of games I've played out of the box and upgrades feel better designed than past FFG games I've played. I'm regularly surprised at how often I find myself wishing I had taken an option I had dismissed initially. I don't love all the proprietary stuff, but its pretty easy to play with a tape measure and only use the movement gauges for vehicles (hint: range 1 = 6", move 1 = 4", move 2 = 6", move 3 = 8"). I'll probably switch to tape measure pretty quickly. How the game grows will certainly matter, but right now the game is fun, people are excited and even with the limited selection, armies feel pretty cool and iconic. Regardless of where the game ends up, I'm happy with what I got and what I'm playing and hoping FFG can keep the ball rolling on this one for a while.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 16:30:39


Post by: Dr_Keenbean


I'd really like to see them add in scenario books for each of the films like LOTR had.

I think that when working with a property like this that would be a really big seller. If they could also try to include scenarios for X-Wing & Armada in those books to fully round out the films I think that would be awesome. I don't play those games but it would make it hard for me not to.

I'm a big fan of what I've read of the rules but I have yet to actually play a game. Adult with a full-time job and friends with their own jobs & kids, etc.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 17:27:18


Post by: ElvisJuice


Doesn't fit FFG's MO for miniatures games. Rules will come out in the form of cards and dials, always bundled with figures whether you want them or not. That way you can spread the content of one supplement book over several boxes of figures, make people buy duplicates if they want multiple copies of a card to upgrade multiple squads with, that kind of thing. Why say "Rebel squads may upgrade to Veterans for 2 points, gaining a reroll" in a book when you can print that on a card and sell it in a box of New Rebels in Top Hats, tie mechanics to exhausting cards so you need duplicates of the card, etc.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 17:48:32


Post by: Sqorgar


 LunarSol wrote:
My first impression of the game was that it was basically someone's personal "if I made 40k this is how I'd fix it" game.

I keep hearing that it is a version of the Dust Warfare rules. Having not played DW, does anybody know how true it is?

I'm this close to pulling the trigger on Legion. I really liked BattleLore 2e, which FFG killed in favor of Runewars TMG. It took a while to get over that and try Runewars TMG, which I really liked (it's in my top games). But now, it appears that FFG has killed that in favor of Legion. I like Star Wars and I generally like the games that FFG puts out, but I don't care for how fickle FFG can be with these things. And I also hear that Legion lacks dice, which is a FFG staple, but it seems particularly bad with Legion. I kind of want some guarantees, and though Star Wars is generally safer than FFG's other series, I need something that edges Legion past my concerns (and, let's face it, bitterness)


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 17:52:01


Post by: Manchu


@jake

did you have any contact with Runewars minis before handling the Legion stuff you received?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 17:52:36


Post by: Sqorgar


ElvisJuice wrote:
Doesn't fit FFG's MO for miniatures games. Rules will come out in the form of cards and dials, always bundled with figures whether you want them or not. That way you can spread the content of one supplement book over several boxes of figures, make people buy duplicates if they want multiple copies of a card to upgrade multiple squads with, that kind of thing. Why say "Rebel squads may upgrade to Veterans for 2 points, gaining a reroll" in a book when you can print that on a card and sell it in a box of New Rebels in Top Hats, tie mechanics to exhausting cards so you need duplicates of the card, etc.

Descent 2e had a scenario book published for it, but it was largely a replacement for the substandard scenario book in the core box. It is likely that if they do a scenario book, it will be included in a box with miniatures (like Imperial Assault's big box expansions, or the Dust Tactics operations).


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 19:02:09


Post by: LunarSol


Runewars doesn't appear to have been abandoned. The Uthuk expansions are all on their way along with a new unit for the other factions. I'm not sure the game itself is exactly flying off shelves, but I'd peg that more on a pretty dull setting and models more than anything.

As for expansions and upgrade cards; FFG seems to be doing better with Legion; at least initially. All of the generic upgrade cards in the expansions are the same for each faction; so getting Rebel units gives you the same cards as Imperial ones. Moreover, they're even being nicer with the singles of stuff in the Core box. New cards in the Stormtrooper single are also in the Snowtrooper single for example, so you're not really forced to purchase the singles of stuff from the Core this time around. It's still not perfect and I'd rather have a digital solution any day of the week, but its a lot better.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 20:23:39


Post by: Sqorgar


 LunarSol wrote:
Runewars doesn't appear to have been abandoned. The Uthuk expansions are all on their way along with a new unit for the other factions. I'm not sure the game itself is exactly flying off shelves, but I'd peg that more on a pretty dull setting and models more than anything.

RW is dull mainly because it's just line troops (so far?). The monsters and heroes are pretty cool.

As for expansions and upgrade cards; FFG seems to be doing better with Legion; at least initially. All of the generic upgrade cards in the expansions are the same for each faction; so getting Rebel units gives you the same cards as Imperial ones. Moreover, they're even being nicer with the singles of stuff in the Core box. New cards in the Stormtrooper single are also in the Snowtrooper single for example, so you're not really forced to purchase the singles of stuff from the Core this time around. It's still not perfect and I'd rather have a digital solution any day of the week, but its a lot better.

Runewars is the same way. The general cards are available in boxes for all factions, with the faction-specific cards are repeated between boxes. It's pretty good, except for the power discrepancy between the core and individual unit boxes. It feels like Runewars was just dry run for Legion.

Maybe you can answer a question for me. With Runewars, it is cheaper to just buy two cores than the buy one core and individual unit boxes. However, the core sets are missing powerful upgrade cards from the unit boxes. So, core x2 doesn't have the Wind Rune upgrade from the archer box, which greatly improves the archers. Is Legion like that? Is there a Legion wiki anywhere that I can use to figure out what cards come in each box? The core boxes also include unique heroes, so if you double up, you end up with redundant characters.

Also, second question: Legion uses some weird proprietary measuring stick. To those who are used to measuring tape, how is this doohickey? Seems like on a busy table, it'd get in the way more often than not. They also sell it separately. Is it worth having more than one?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 20:31:57


Post by: Vertrucio


Thankfully, the single boxes for Rebel and Empire troops just includes grappling hooks and I think 1 new grenade type. Both are useful, but not 100% must includes in your list as they have specific uses. Grenades require range band 1.

The range sticks are literally just 6" measuring sticks. So range 1 is 6", range 4 is 24". You can easily use a tape measure to avoid buying extra sticks. Movement is mostly the same for infantry. Vehicles still need to obey the turning and such.

On another topic:
One thing I'm seeing is that a lot of players aren't making use of area terrain. It's a staple of many modern wargames, but definitely not used to their full extent here. There's rules for them right in the main rulebook.

Another +1 for Legion that they actually have full terrain rules, instead of just janky specific rules for purchased terrain sets.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 21:11:39


Post by: LunarSol


 Sqorgar wrote:
Is Legion like that? Is there a Legion wiki anywhere that I can use to figure out what cards come in each box? The core boxes also include unique heroes, so if you double up, you end up with redundant characters.

Also, second question: Legion uses some weird proprietary measuring stick. To those who are used to measuring tape, how is this doohickey? Seems like on a busy table, it'd get in the way more often than not. They also sell it separately. Is it worth having more than one?


http://starwarslegion.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Legion_Wiki

To answer the question of whether or not Legion's individual upgrades are necessary... I'd say no. In part this is because you can get the upgrades elsewhere; The snowtrooper expansion contains the same new upgrades as the stormtrooper expansion. You get the new speeder upgrade in the AT-ST. (This is true of the Rebel stuff: Rebel Trooper stuff in Fleet Trooper expansions, AT-RT stuff in Snowspeeder).

The upgrades not in the core set are the following:
Comms-Jammer: Enemies can't give orders to models within 6" of the thing with the jammer. Not useless, but limited range.
Grappling Hooks: Ignore the potential damage from climbing. Table dependent; damage chance is pretty low anyway. Climbing is restrictive enough to have limited value.
Impact Grenades: 6" range attacks that ignore armor. Potentially powerful, but limited threat range. Probably the best of them, but doesn't feel like the best vehicle solution.

So a pretty limited selection that is available via other means. I definitely don't feel like I'm missing anything.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 21:49:23


Post by: AegisGrimm


Holy, ever-loving crap, are people being insanely critical in this thread. You would think Legion has the worst rules ever written, models that hearken back to the days of melty Mage Knight prepaints, and an FFG representative kicks you in the crotch with every purchase and forces you to thank them.

It's a wargame, people. And while the models are not the epitome of HIPs plastic, they come at a fraction of the cost of many other tabletop wargames.

God, it's like the days of when Armada released and people screamed about how they were being ripped off by FFG because the squadron pieces not being prepainted, and dragging the quality of the prepaints over the coals.

As I am not in the know, so far I don't even see a lack of an issue with cross-faction upgrade packaging like with Xwing and Armada, which people were doom and glooming about before the game even released.



Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/26 22:31:01


Post by: ElvisJuice


Alright, dismissing the criticism of the figures - fine, that's subjective, each to their own. Calling them "a fraction of the cost of many other tabletop wargames", though?

Which?!

I've got the basic infantry models coming out at £3 a model after discount, £21.50 for one squad.

What are we comparing that to?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LunarSol wrote:

The upgrades not in the core set are the following:
Comms-Jammer: Enemies can't give orders to models within 6" of the thing with the jammer. Not useless, but limited range.
Grappling Hooks: Ignore the potential damage from climbing. Table dependent; damage chance is pretty low anyway. Climbing is restrictive enough to have limited value.
Impact Grenades: 6" range attacks that ignore armor. Potentially powerful, but limited threat range. Probably the best of them, but doesn't feel like the best vehicle solution.

Could be a lot worse, I suppose... I still don't like this way of doing things compared to just putting the rules in books, but if they aren't ripping the piss with it too much then that's OK


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 00:20:10


Post by: angel of death 007


 jake wrote:
 ScarletRose wrote:
Fantasy Flight could have produced better quality models without resorting to GW prices. Lots of companies do. If you find these models acceptable, thats fine for you. And probably a lot of other people. But their quality is notably sub-par compared to many, many other miniatures lines, not just GWs stuff. Wouldn't it have been nice if Fantasy Flight HAD made better quality models for this game? Wouldn't you have preferred that? Wouldn't everyone? I think they could have done a better job and still kept the price point the same or not much higher. I don't really understand the "I don't want better models" argument. If mediocre models are good enough for gaming than surely good models are better, right? And if you can have good models for the same price (or maybe slightly more) why would you want mediocre ones?


So... is the theory here that repeating the word 'mediocre' over and over will somehow change other people's opinions? Seems like wishful thinking tbh.


I'm just stating my own. Obviously different people are going to have different standards, and some people simply won't care about sharper details, better quality plastic or cleaner casting (for any number of reasons). And thats fine. But if you do care about that stuff and you were hoping for a set of well done, quality models, I think its understandable to be disappointed.

For those of you who don't actually own the models yet but think they look great based on Fantasy Flight's photos or videos of models given to painters before the release, I'd really recommend taking a close look at the models in person before you decide to buy (or buy more than you already have.

I've said enough n this topic. I hope none of you regret your purchases and I hope you enjoy the game.


I really love the fact that my ATST only cost $40, had it been GW it would have easily cost $125 or $150 USD.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 00:21:53


Post by: privateer4hire


AT-ST are like imperial guard sentinels, right?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 00:55:08


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 privateer4hire wrote:
AT-ST are like imperial guard sentinels, right?
The chickenwalkers yeah.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 01:10:09


Post by: Galas


In size they are bigger than Imperial Knights.

Spoiler:


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 01:11:03


Post by: LunarSol


It's got chicken legs!!!
Spoiler:



That said, in the grand schem of things its not as much plastic as it seems. It's definitely big, but its a lot of empty space between the head and the ground compared to the models its technically taller than.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 01:13:19


Post by: Galas


That wouldnt have matter to GW to put it a price tag.
One can't really say the price of infantry figures is cheaper in Legion than compared to GW, but the price of this AT-ST is just insane. In the good sense.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 01:18:53


Post by: Chikout


The vehicles do look nice, but the scale is a bit worrying for game play. An AT-AT would be Titan sized. It limit what vehicles will be usable.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 01:58:43


Post by: Yodhrin


Chikout wrote:
The vehicles do look nice, but the scale is a bit worrying for game play. An AT-AT would be Titan sized. It limit what vehicles will be usable.


Good. By which I mean, I like this scale for infantry, and if they're going to do it, it's good that they're apparently, so far anyway, not going to go over the top like GW have with 40K since they rolled Apocalypse into the main rules. If the only appearance an AT-AT ever makes in Legion is as terrain or a special scenario(I can imagine a version of the "rolling table" concept from GorkaMorka where terrain moves along by however much per turn going off at one end and coming back at the other in a different layout with the AT-AT static in the centre, representing it advancing on an objective, while your Legion forces skirmish around its feet as the Rebels try to sabotage the walker) I'll be happy.

Not that I would mind seeing a smaller-scale game focused on grand conflicts at some stage, but TBH I find that concept a lot less interesting for Star Wars than I do for 40K.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 02:30:15


Post by: angel of death 007


I do hope we see an ATAT and i bet it will be maybe in the $100-150 dollar range... where if GW made it it would be FW and would be over a $1000 so only a few could afford it. The price of the ATST is perfect and shows what is possible. Had GW had made the same thing it would be atleast 3-4x the cost.

People are oh to quick to defend GW and their pricing but in all honest they price the every man out of most of their kits and FW really does a number on it. Always wanted a warhound but my wife would litterally bury me in the back yard if she knew i spent that price on a model. Though I did 3D print one for about $15 with all weapon options. And I justified my 3D printer by getting it on black Friday, it has saved me countless thousands of dollars over the past year.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 06:42:42


Post by: Thebiggesthat


It's far too big. And would be pretty useless for most scenarios.

This should have been 6mm scale, I'm hoping they still do them eventually ala Armada


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 06:47:18


Post by: Albertorius


 Sqorgar wrote:
Miniature quality aside, has anyone actually played the game yet? It came out a while ago, but I have yet to see anybody say whether the game itself is worth playing. I've only seen reviews from board gamers, and even those weren't exactly overwhelmed with excitement.


I did play it back when I got the rules files and then again a couple of times on the FFG's demo boards at Game On Madrid last december. So far I've found it pretty interesting, and I'm hoping to get some 800 points games to see how it hold up to the standard size.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 13:56:51


Post by: Vertrucio


I'd say it plays like Bolt Action 2.0, with all the extra star wars silliness on top. So perhaps like MEdge, Konflikt, Gates, etc.

People have been using tables that are way too 40k-like. Aka, empty open streets with giant LoS blocking or way too open buildings spread out between them.

This is not a game for 40k tables, and instead players should look to Bolt Action and similar tables to see what kind of terrain to setup. Lots of area terrain, chest high walls (barricades) where appropriate such as around houses and structures.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 16:03:15


Post by: LunarSol


Thebiggesthat wrote:
This should have been 6mm scale, I'm hoping they still do them eventually ala Armada


Star Wars is really a hero driven franchise. 6mm would make it hard to sell on the backs of Vader and Luke and the rest. It's also not a scale the franchise has ever used for a "fair fight". Pretty much every 6mm scale battle in the Star Wars universe is a completely one sided affair to show how hopeless open warfare would be against the bad guys. I actually initially felt the battles in the game would be a little too large for Star Wars, but with heroes taking up a quarter of the army it ends up being pretty small scale and about the right size overall. Closer to Endor or Scarif than Endor or Naboo.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 16:10:36


Post by: privateer4hire


I was reading on boardgamegeek that the core box doesn't come with the full rules. Sorry if it's been covered ad nauseum on this thread. Where are the advanced rules if this is correct about the core box?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 16:39:03


Post by: Vertrucio


They're FREE online, like almost all modern wargame rules should be with how they need to be updated so often.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 16:39:53


Post by: privateer4hire


 LunarSol wrote:
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/86/db/86dbf9d4-fb20-4f6a-bf5a-5297a62f60aa/swl_rules_reference_11_eng.pdf


Thanks. So players need the PDF to play the advanced rules?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vertrucio wrote:
They're FREE online, like almost all modern wargame rules should be with how they need to be updated so often.


Got it. Thanks.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/03/27 16:45:17


Post by: LunarSol


 privateer4hire wrote:


Thanks. So players need the PDF to play the advanced rules?



It's essentially the detailed rules for things the core box doesn't cover. Really the only really important thing is that it contains the rules for custom terrain. The core box only uses the barricades that come in the set (on a total tangent, those barricades are awesome and will become a part of my Infinity collection immediately) so the PDF includes stuff like forests and climbing and stuff like that.

The vast bulk of that document is a giant reference/FAQ. Want to know how to rules specifically interact or the timing of conflicting modifiers? Look up the rule in there and it will provide some pretty detailed examples of how to resolve... pretty much everything.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/03 02:08:28


Post by: angel of death 007


So after reading some of the negative reviews on here I got my preorder set, late as usual but never the less.

So I looked over and did some prefitting before gluing. There was nothing that required any hot water bending at all. The details on the miniatures seem crisp and were a breeze to assemble. There was only a few places i had to hit with the razor knife on two models in the whole set.

The models are a lot better then the privateer press plastic models I have worked with. The plastic has some give and does not snap like privateer press models sometimes do.

Overall I would rank the models at a solid 8/10, only due to some of the monopose nature of the models. Easily one of the best models on the market for the money. I will be buying in heavy.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/03 03:12:13


Post by: Sqorgar


angel of death 007 wrote:
The models are a lot better then the privateer press plastic models I have worked with.
If they weren't, it would be cause for alarm.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/03 17:59:17


Post by: Albertorius


Eh, dunno. PP's plastics being worse than FFG's should probably be cause of alarm for PP, given how long they've been making them already...


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/03 21:36:24


Post by: LunarSol


 Albertorius wrote:
Eh, dunno. PP's plastics being worse than FFG's should probably be cause of alarm for PP, given how long they've been making them already...


They've largely abandoned the plastics. They're still out there simply because they haven't been replaced, but new stuff is pretty much exclusively resin/metal these days.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/04 07:14:16


Post by: kodos


The experiment with the Boardgame/Restic/PVC plastic was short but painful
while some of the last models were not bad overall it was nearly a disaster (from a modelling point of view)

So FFG is doing better with their first minis than PP with their first plastics is good but not the best comparison

PS: Are there any hints what is planned after Veers/Solo?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/04 07:26:18


Post by: Thargrim


 kodos wrote:
The experiment with the Boardgame/Restic/PVC plastic was short but painful
while some of the last models were not bad overall it was nearly a disaster (from a modelling point of view)

So FFG is doing better with their first minis than PP with their first plastics is good but not the best comparison

PS: Are there any hints what is planned after Veers/Solo?


The developers supposedly kind of hinted at scout troopers on foot, though don't ask me for proof of that. The 3rd imperial commander could be anyones guess. But they seem to announce new expansions during the middle-ish of every month so we'll know in a couple weeks. Some people have suggested Tarkin but I honestly don't think he would fit into this game setting very well.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/04 07:49:07


Post by: AduroT


Assembled a batch of the core Rebels last night, and in my opinion they’re the best pvc Minis I’ve ever seen. Are they full on GW styrene quality? No. Styrene still makes better Minis, but this is definitely a good gateway or entry to Minis games since it’s a huge name license that may attract new players to the hobby. Gots to assemble a second batch of core Rebels tonight.

As an aside, are people sticklers for needing the actual upgrade cards? I know locally the opinion is more of a whatever, just print off your own copies if you need more. Seems like it would be pretty easy to do that for anything outside big events run by actual FFG staff.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/04 09:02:14


Post by: kodos


WYSIWYG is big question for now as there are no official rules if you need the original upgrade card, or the model or both
eg are the upgrade cards enough or need the model to be equipped with the upgrades too or vica versa
 Thargrim wrote:

Some people have suggested Tarkin but I honestly don't think he would fit into this game setting very well.

There are already Spaceship Troops so why not a Space Commander
But I agree that it is unlikely, same as the Emperor


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/04 09:05:31


Post by: Albertorius


 LunarSol wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Eh, dunno. PP's plastics being worse than FFG's should probably be cause of alarm for PP, given how long they've been making them already...


They've largely abandoned the plastics. They're still out there simply because they haven't been replaced, but new stuff is pretty much exclusively resin/metal these days.


Oh, that's good to know given the ones I've seen. How are the newest resin/metal ones? I must admit I've been veering off them for some time now.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/05 14:29:49


Post by: LunarSol


 AduroT wrote:

As an aside, are people sticklers for needing the actual upgrade cards? I know locally the opinion is more of a whatever, just print off your own copies if you need more. Seems like it would be pretty easy to do that for anything outside big events run by actual FFG staff.


Not really, though at the moment there's not enough of them to really matter either way. I've played X-Wing without cards for ages despite owning them all. At some point I just got tired of managing them.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/05 15:33:20


Post by: Sqorgar


 AduroT wrote:
Assembled a batch of the core Rebels last night, and in my opinion they’re the best pvc Minis I’ve ever seen. Are they full on GW styrene quality? No. Styrene still makes better Minis, but this is definitely a good gateway or entry to Minis games since it’s a huge name license that may attract new players to the hobby.
My box is coming today, so I haven't seen them in person yet, but I will say that Runewars has a noticeable change in quality from the core box to the later expansions (like the latari or uthuk army expansions). The plastic isn't as bendy and seems to keep details better. Spears definitely still droop though.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/05 16:14:26


Post by: Shrapnelsmile


I only had to re-set one Rebel gun with hot water. otherwise they are very nice quality. I appreciate that the minis come bagged with pieces already separated. Saves a vast amount of time in comparison to a sprue.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/05 16:31:30


Post by: Kalamadea


Hairdryer works just as well if you keep one at your hobby station for painting (and you really should). Out of 2 cores I've only had to fix one stormtrooper who's legs were a bit too close together. Hit it with a hairdryer for 15 seconds and it was all set to go. I'm still assembling the second rebel models though, I was waiting for some aftermarket resin alien heads to come in which they just did yesterday


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/06 09:14:56


Post by: AduroT


Set two of Core stuff assembled just as nicely as the first, though had some mispack issues. Didn’t get the little handlebar for the AT-RT, and the guy who got the Imperials says he got an extra bag of one of the Stormtrooper grunt poses instead of the rocket launcher guys. It sounds like mispacks are fairly frequent, which would be the downside to everything being desprued and separated before packing I imagine.

Also got my first game in today. Skipped the demo rules and went straight to the 800pt level. Learned some stuff, made some mistakes, opponent’s defense dice were pretty hot, got my butt kicked, had a bunch of fun. Playing again on Sunday I believe after a local Shadespire tournament.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 02:44:17


Post by: Stormonu


Just got mine yesterday and started putting together last night. Only problem I'm having is I can't quite make out how to put the fins on the front of the speeders, my old, tired eyes just can't make out the proper detail.

The plastic figures are overall pretty good. I wouldn't listen to any naysayer that hasn't held one - it's just sour grapes.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 04:12:22


Post by: Sqorgar


Since other people are sharing their opinions, thought I'd share mine. Got it earlier this week, did assembly and played one game with it so far.

The models are later Runewars quality, which means they have flash, but fit together fine (early RW stuff required a lot of cutting off bits). No mispacks either, thank goodness. I didn't hate the models as much as I expected to, design-wise, which I attribute to using poor paintjobs on the FFG website. They look a lot nicer in person, unpainted, than they do in the glamour shots. My main complaint is that I had to wash all the figures first - you could feel the greasy residue on the bases, and I'd read a lot of reports of paint/glue not sticking. The assembly instructions for the speeder bikes was done at a poor angle and it isn't obvious where a few pieces go (even the glamor shots on the FFG website don't help), but I figured it out eventually. On the whole, I'd give the models a decent score but I didn't enjoy assembling them.

Playing the game did not leave me impressed. I think just a core box robs you of so many things that would be in the full experience (the command cards are basically unimportant when you only have 4 units - just put orders on your two unique units and all that's left are interchangeable stormtroopers, enough dice to play, variety in units and customization). The learn to play guide skips a lot of details that are only found in the PDF-only rules reference (I play miniature games to get away from computer screens). With RuneWars, I felt like the core box was representative of the game, and I wanted more because I liked the game and wanted bigger battles and to customize my trays. With Legion, I felt like I got half a game - one which only half impressed me - and I now I have to decide if I want to invest another $75 (at least) to get a second set (which I wouldn't look forward to assembling).

There were things I did like, such as the command card system. It gives a bit of a bluffing to initiative, gives commanders a unique feel, and with the random activation, can make a tactical impact. Despite making it more complicated, I like that cover and dodges don't cancel critical hits. I had a unit of two guys firing at another unit behind a barricade. Under normal circumstances, the barricade would cancel any potential damage I do (I can do 2, heavy cover cancels 2), but with criticals, I managed to sneak a shot past. Otherwise, it would've been a stalemate where the first one who left cover would lose. While I dislike the measuring stick, the movement tools turned out to be a non-event, and I guess did their job to make sure that vehicles weren't just large people and that facing mattered (especially with compulsory moves). I liked only measuring form the leader and just teleporting the rest of the unit into cohesion. That speeds up the game a lot, I think.

I'm not blown away. I see a hint of potential, but I really don't have any desire to play a starter game ever again. I'm not sure I want to invest further in the game either, so either my core set just became worthless or it became a down payment. As a game, I'm not sure what to think, but as a starter box, I think FFG screwed up. And what the hell with the dice? Units have a minimum of 4 models in it, yet only 3 dice?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 04:22:10


Post by: privateer4hire


 Sqorgar wrote:
...And what the hell with the dice? Units have a minimum of 4 models in it, yet only 3 dice?

That's an FFG tradition. You either buy a 2nd starter or one of their $10 plus (depending on the game) extra dice packs.
Or you write down or remember the results of the first roll and then roll enough dice again to make up the difference.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 05:22:14


Post by: Sqorgar


I'm well familiar with FFG's cheaping out on dice, but it was never this bad before. There was rarely enough for two players, but Legion doesn't even have enough for ONE player. Combined with not even printing the rules reference (which is required to play a full game), I feel like FFG is starting to cut too many corners with Legion. It's gone from irritating to offensive.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 06:27:33


Post by: Vertrucio


Meanwhile... almost everyone has bought over $40 in dice within the last year. Some of us purchased vanity dice that look interesting but are actually harder to read, or less random, than normal vanilla dice.

And a few of you purchased those specialist games dice too.

Yeah, it sucks, yes, it's getting more money out of you, but this dice based argument is tired and old.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 07:12:49


Post by: TwilightSparkles


The dice argument is pretty valid when you reach the point in turn 1 of the intro game and realise you need five dice but have three fir a squad to shoot, and the rules are written in such a way that you obviously need the dice. If it used regular d6 then no argument, but it uses custom, limited supply, dice. Half the units in the box need the extra dice just in the demo to attack. That's before you get to defence....

Say what you like about GW but as a starter box this is woeful in comparison, leaving aside the lack of a game legal force in the box - should have had greater variety in trooper unit sizes.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 07:20:04


Post by: BrookM


FFG is no stranger to not including enough dice in their core sets.

The X-Wing starter also needed at least one or two more of each colour IIRC, it's been years since I last played, but it annoyed me when I got the starter that we didn't have enough dice.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 07:50:13


Post by: kodos


The core set is made to be bought twice
same as it was for X-WING

You get 2 Boxes exchange units with your opponent and have enough gaming material

1 Box is just to get into it and not a full game


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 11:05:41


Post by: Albertorius


 kodos wrote:
The core set is made to be bought twice
same as it was for X-WING

You get 2 Boxes exchange units with your opponent and have enough gaming material

1 Box is just to get into it and not a full game

So... get 4 boxes' worth of minis of one faction? (because otherwise you won't be getting enough dice to play with unless you always play together) Kinda seems overkill. Now that I got my complimentary box, though, I'll probably buy another one to get enough for two players. Plus, I kinda dig the game, and I have novice wargame players to teach.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 15:01:49


Post by: Sqorgar


 Vertrucio wrote:
Yeah, it sucks, yes, it's getting more money out of you, but this dice based argument is tired and old.
The argument isn't old when literally the first roll you make in the game will come up short of dice. This isn't a "it would've been nice if I didn't have to share dice" deal. You physically can not play the game with the amount of dice included. BatteLore 2e had too few dice, but situations where you came up short were less common. In Legion, it is every roll - and you really need the dice because many of the rules change the dice (rerolls, converting one symbol to another, cancelling symbols). And they didn't even print half the rulebook, not to mention that completely worthless box insert.

To be clear, I generally don't have a problem with FFG's "double up on cores" philosophy. I find it mildly irritating, especially when there is waste (like Arkham Horror LCG), but I've always felt like one core box was enough to accurately judge the game, such that the second core contributed to my experience rather than completing it.

Legion's box, as a starter product, I think joins the ranks of Wrath of Kings, X-Wing, Malifaux, and The Walking Dead's solo box where the starter boxes do an extremely poor job of being a good introduction to the game. I think 40k's First Strike box does more with less, and I think the gold standard for starter boxes is Infinity's Operation: Icestorm (if there's a better one out there, let me know).


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 15:21:12


Post by: str00dles1


 Vertrucio wrote:


Yeah, it sucks, yes, it's getting more money out of you, but this dice based argument is tired and old.


Cant even come close to try to understand this. You are completely wrong here.Besides the other 100 reasons this game will be short lived and terrible, its just being cheap and lazy. Its their usual MO, and for some reason this decided to make this one the worst for their biggest IP. 2 Core sets and you still need to share dice. They wanted to hit the 90$ mark for some reason to make it appealing, but it would have been better to make it 100$ and add in the 5 extra dice.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 15:36:06


Post by: Kriswall


str00dles1 wrote:
 Vertrucio wrote:


Yeah, it sucks, yes, it's getting more money out of you, but this dice based argument is tired and old.


Cant even come close to try to understand this. You are completely wrong here.Besides the other 100 reasons this game will be short lived and terrible, its just being cheap and lazy. Its their usual MO, and for some reason this decided to make this one the worst for their biggest IP. 2 Core sets and you still need to share dice. They wanted to hit the 90$ mark for some reason to make it appealing, but it would have been better to make it 100$ and add in the 5 extra dice.


lol... "the other 100 reasons this game will be short lived and terrible"

It's Star Wars. It has decent models and a tight rule set. Initial reports are that it's fun to play. It's significantly cheaper than the main competitor's offerings. It's definitely not going to be "short lived and terrible". You sound like a GW diehard who automatically hates anything non-GW. 40k can be fun. So can tons of other games.

The core box is $90. If you want to double the dice, buy the dice pack and just pretend like the core box was $105, instead... which seems to be what you want. Also, to be clear... a dice pack is 15 dice and not 5.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 15:55:44


Post by: Sqorgar


 Kriswall wrote:
lol... "the other 100 reasons this game will be short lived and terrible"

It's Star Wars. It has decent models and a tight rule set. Initial reports are that it's fun to play. It's significantly cheaper than the main competitor's offerings. It's definitely not going to be "short lived and terrible". You sound like a GW diehard who automatically hates anything non-GW. 40k can be fun. So can tons of other games.

I don't think you have to be a GW diehard to think the game won't have legs. For one thing, look at FFG's past history. They outright abandoned many great game systems (including several miniatures games), and even their best, most successful game series (like Imperial Assault) only last a few years. If FFG doesn't feel like Legion is making money, they'll drop it like a hat, Star Wars or otherwise, and they won't ever tell you that they've done it. If you go more than 3 months without an update, just assume FFG killed the line. Honestly, as much as I like FFG games, I think they are their own worst enemy when it comes to selling lifestyle games.

I wouldn't describe Legion as significantly cheaper either, since you will be paying a minimum of $150 to get started. Apparently, an 800 pt game is two core sets + a vehicle (snowspeeder or AT-ST), so split two cores ($45 + $45) + AT-ST ($40) + dice pack ($10). That's cheaper than GW stuff, but I think GW games are still fun at smaller point levels. Age of Sigmar with a few units is still fun. Legion with few units undermines Legion's only unique gameplay selling point, the command system. Also, $150 isn't cheap compared to other non-GW games, like Infinity or Malifaux. You also get a lot less than two cores of Runewars will get you (Legion's 66 minis vs Runewars' 120+)

It does have Star Wars, and that's not nothing, but with Disney doing everything in its power to kill the brand, I wonder how much longer being Star Wars will mean something? Not to mention that the Star Wars game market is oversaturated in ways that make even Cthulhu jealous. What does Legion bring that you can't get from Imperial Assault, Armada, X-Wing, Rebellion, Star Wars: The Card Game, their RPG, or Destiny - or for that matter, what does it do that you couldn't get from WotC's SW Miniatures, the WEG SW Miniature Battle, or Decipher's CCG?

Hopefully a lot. We'll have to wait an see. But it's entirely reasonable to be wary here.

The core box is $90. If you want to double the dice, buy the dice pack and just pretend like the core box was $105, instead... which seems to be what you want. Also, to be clear... a dice pack is 15 dice and not 5.
And then buy another $90 core set, with duplicate cards, figures, and tokens you don't need, because you still don't have a game with only one.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 17:23:29


Post by: Grot 6


Locally, this game is rotting on the shelves...

BOTH of my buddies at the shops are worried that they made a bad investment in picking this up. Two different towns, two different shops. The Star Wars IP is toxic and people pretty much STOPPED playing anything Star Wars related.

We were talking all sorts of mess about it when we took a look at the rules, then the figures... THEN the dice. To that guy that automatically assumes that you are going to buy TWO games.... No. The game is meh.

The "Move and shoot constructible whippy stick is a joke. The movement stick is unusable, and whoever designed these rules did it on the back of a napkin at the local strip club when they had a few too many drinks.

The "Units" are supposed to move on the whole, and are on par with meat shields, who do not move in a normal logical fashion. The figures themselves are overly complicated, and pedestrian.

6 siders, and some D 20's, a tape measure, and get rid of that stupid attaching crap on the bases and that idiot maneuver shooting stick. As a STart, then go back and give these rules to an Editor, and playtest the game.

Did I mention that it is filling the shelf, and no one wants it?

Yeah, This one will be in the sale pile in about a month...


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 17:38:12


Post by: kodos


 Sqorgar wrote:

I wouldn't describe Legion as significantly cheaper either

We have already compared it, if take on the cheapest possible way to enter 40k, Legion is still 100€ cheaper.

Compared to other games, ~200€ is the level for a complete army or whatever and Legion fits in there the same way as X-Wing

And then buy another $90 core set, with duplicate cards, figures, and tokens you don't need, because you still don't have a game with only one.

or just get the expensions instead


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 17:54:30


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Grot 6 wrote:
Locally, this game is rotting on the shelves...

BOTH of my buddies at the shops are worried that they made a bad investment in picking this up. Two different towns, two different shops. The Star Wars IP is toxic




Anyway, you've got the expensive bit. The good news is that if you want to play a Star Wars game, sci fi skirmish rules are dead cheap.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 17:56:11


Post by: angel of death 007


 Grot 6 wrote:
Locally, this game is rotting on the shelves...

BOTH of my buddies at the shops are worried that they made a bad investment in picking this up. Two different towns, two different shops. The Star Wars IP is toxic and people pretty much STOPPED playing anything Star Wars related.

We were talking all sorts of mess about it when we took a look at the rules, then the figures... THEN the dice. To that guy that automatically assumes that you are going to buy TWO games.... No. The game is meh.

The "Move and shoot constructible whippy stick is a joke. The movement stick is unusable, and whoever designed these rules did it on the back of a napkin at the local strip club when they had a few too many drinks.

The "Units" are supposed to move on the whole, and are on par with meat shields, who do not move in a normal logical fashion. The figures themselves are overly complicated, and pedestrian.

6 siders, and some D 20's, a tape measure, and get rid of that stupid attaching crap on the bases and that idiot maneuver shooting stick. As a STart, then go back and give these rules to an Editor, and playtest the game.

Did I mention that it is filling the shelf, and no one wants it?

Yeah, This one will be in the sale pile in about a month...


Interesting as my LGS invested in a full shelf, they have 4 for GW stuff, and SW legion shelf looks like a Walmart after a zombie apocalypse.

On the arguement of GW 40k vs Legion is cost, there is no comparison. GW is a crap ton more expensive even if you go the cheapest routes possible to build a typical entry level tournament army. Between rule book a codex and possibly a chapter approved you are already up there in money, and that is before adding it models or any other add ons. Yes you can get some SC sets for GW which are nice but they don't come with everything you need to field them and are far from what you need for an army.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 18:29:22


Post by: Sqorgar


Grot 6 wrote:Yeah, This one will be in the sale pile in about a month...

I don't think it is as dire as that. It's worth being wary of the future of the game due to FFG's history, but it is a bad idea to judge the future potential of a miniatures game based on early adopters. Honestly, I think the most important aspect of a miniatures game is ongoing support, and if FFG keeps pumping out new expansions (they couldn't for Runewars), the game will keep growing.

I think FFG's initial rollout policy is terrible, as it was with Runewars. The majority of early expansions are just from the core box, which every player is guaranteed to have (you can't play the game without the movement tools, dice, tokens, deployment cards, so you can't build an army separately). The chief competition for those expansions is the core box, and they are not priced appropriately. At $25 for a trooper box, it is more than 1/4th of the cost of core set, while getting 1/8th the value (not including the value of extra barricades and dice). There's no situation in which that $25 trooper box is going to look like a good deal. Once you get past the stuff in the core box (like the AT-ST), the value becomes a little more reasonable. So, let's see where Legion is at after a year's time, when they've released more things worth buying.

kodos wrote:We have already compared it, if take on the cheapest possible way to enter 40k, Legion is still 100€ cheaper.

Compared to other games, ~200€ is the level for a complete army or whatever and Legion fits in there the same way as X-Wing
I already explained my reasoning. I think GW products are more playable at lower point totals, so you need less product to have a fully playable game. For instance, I think Know No Fear (or Thunder & Blood for AoS) is perfectly playable for two players at $80, while I don't think Legion is playable at $90.

And then buy another $90 core set, with duplicate cards, figures, and tokens you don't need, because you still don't have a game with only one.

or just get the expensions instead

It is still a much better value than buying its components separately. However, unlike Runewars, I'm not sure a second core box is the best way. I just don't think you want that many speeder bikes or four identical basic trooper units. It feels like a stop gap until more unit variety is available.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 18:41:49


Post by: LunarSol


 Sqorgar wrote:

It is still a much better value than buying its components separately. However, unlike Runewars, I'm not sure a second core box is the best way. I just don't think you want that many speeder bikes or four identical basic trooper units. It feels like a stop gap until more unit variety is available.


2 unit of bikes seems perfectly fine. Currently they're probably the single most efficient unit in the game. I'm strongly considering buying a third unit after getting 2 in core boxes. The AT-RT is also quite strong and a pretty versatile piece worth considering in any of its 4 configs. At first I thought Snowtroopers would strictly replace Stormtroopers, but I'm less certain now. The DLT is a pretty amazing gun exclusive to regular Stormies. With the heavy emphasis on trooper units for scenario, I'm actually thinking 4x Storm/2x Snow might be a perfectly viable plan. I'd not be surprised to see something similar with the Rebel Troopers.

I do think it would have helped immensely if Leia/Veers/Snow/Fleet expansions were available at launch, but apparently we're supposed to be getting them as part of a monthly release schedule. It will be interesting to see if they can keep up with that.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 18:44:47


Post by: Sqorgar


angel of death 007 wrote:
On the arguement of GW 40k vs Legion is cost, there is no comparison. GW is a crap ton more expensive even if you go the cheapest routes possible to build a typical entry level tournament army. Between rule book a codex and possibly a chapter approved you are already up there in money, and that is before adding it models or any other add ons. Yes you can get some SC sets for GW which are nice but they don't come with everything you need to field them and are far from what you need for an army.

GW has multiple ways to get into 40k: First Strike, Know No Fear, Dark Imperium (not including stuff like Start Collecting boxes, the occasional box like Forgebane, and the Christmas battleforce bundles). All three of these starter products can be cheaply expanded with Easy Build models, and include the unit sheets so you don't even technically need a codex. As long as you want Primaris space marines or Death Guard, 40k isn't very expensive to get into at all.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 19:34:54


Post by: TalonZahn


Legion will suffer from the same thing the other FFG properties do.

Once it moves out of Original Trilogy territory, to add armies, it will crap out and start to die off.

Sure, they can throw in singles here and there like Imperial Assault; Chewie, Droids, etc... that my buy some time, but not much.

I think it was HBMC who brought this up concerning vehicles. Once they hit the iconic ones, which tye pretty much have, they need to go to the other movies.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 19:41:32


Post by: Kriswall


 Sqorgar wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:
On the arguement of GW 40k vs Legion is cost, there is no comparison. GW is a crap ton more expensive even if you go the cheapest routes possible to build a typical entry level tournament army. Between rule book a codex and possibly a chapter approved you are already up there in money, and that is before adding it models or any other add ons. Yes you can get some SC sets for GW which are nice but they don't come with everything you need to field them and are far from what you need for an army.

GW has multiple ways to get into 40k: First Strike, Know No Fear, Dark Imperium (not including stuff like Start Collecting boxes, the occasional box like Forgebane, and the Christmas battleforce bundles). All three of these starter products can be cheaply expanded with Easy Build models, and include the unit sheets so you don't even technically need a codex. As long as you want Primaris space marines or Death Guard, 40k isn't very expensive to get into at all.


40k has exactly ONE way to get into the game if you're not interested in Primaris Marines or Death Guard and you want to play "standard", i.e. ~2000 point Matched Play games of 40k. Buy a core rule book. Buy one or more index/codex books and then spend enough money to buy 2000 points worth of models. You'll be in for hundreds and hundreds of dollars. First Strike, Know No Fear and Dark Imperium are only worthwhile if you're interested in those two specific factions.

Also, why are people saying that Disney is trying to kill Star Wars and that Star Wars is toxic? It's one of the strongest IPs in the market right now. Star Wars is a massive money maker. Is this just salt from people who didn't like the new movies?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 19:45:59


Post by: LunarSol


I think if they bite the bullet and add Clone Wars factions things will be fine. If they stick to the rebellion era things are going to be tough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kriswall wrote:

Also, why are people saying that Disney is trying to kill Star Wars and that Star Wars is toxic? It's one of the strongest IPs in the market right now. Star Wars is a massive money maker. Is this just salt from people who didn't like the new movies?


One person said this, but to answer the question... yes?

Locally its probably the fastest selling game our LGS has seen. Keeping the momentum is always the challenge though.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 20:33:45


Post by: Sqorgar


 Kriswall wrote:

40k has exactly ONE way to get into the game if you're not interested in Primaris Marines or Death Guard and you want to play "standard", i.e. ~2000 point Matched Play games of 40k. Buy a core rule book. Buy one or more index/codex books and then spend enough money to buy 2000 points worth of models. You'll be in for hundreds and hundreds of dollars. First Strike, Know No Fear and Dark Imperium are only worthwhile if you're interested in those two specific factions.

There's several things here that I disagree with. The first is that not everybody plays at 2000 pts, especially new players. A starter box is something intended to teach a game, or at least present a representative sample of the game, not build a tournament level army. You could argue that the Warmachine starter box (Cryx vs Cygnar?) or Infinity starter box (PanO vs Nomads) are worthless if you don't want to play those armies, but that's not what the function of a two player starter box is, and that's why there are other, individual army starter boxes in addition to the two player starter boxes. Legion doesn't have that option.

Second, the core 40k rulebook is pretty optional. The core 8 pages of rules are freely available (and included in the starter sets), and the majority of the other rules in the rulebook are not immediately relevant to new players (most isn't relevant to old players either). Arguably, a new player could skip the codex as well, relying on the data sheets included with the models and using power levels to build armies. It's not optimal, but if you allow for the possibility that new players aren't going to tournaments the day after they start, it's at least playable without spending lots of money.

To get to tournament level, GW games are expensive. But for new players and casual players, it is not particularly expensive to get into the game. There's also multiple options that you can choose from. If price is a concern, GW has products for you. If choosing your army is a concern, GW has products for you. Legion has a single $90 entry point, which I would argue isn't a complete product, much less an actual entry point. Legion has a poor starter product and for players who are not yet ready to commit to a tournament army, or even to Legion as a whole, it probably does more harm than good.

Also, why are people saying that Disney is trying to kill Star Wars and that Star Wars is toxic? It's one of the strongest IPs in the market right now. Star Wars is a massive money maker. Is this just salt from people who didn't like the new movies?
It is salt (the new movies are objectively poorly written), but at the same time, Star Wars merchandise is rotting on clearance racks showing that the property is definitely not as healthy as when Disney bought it.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 21:04:18


Post by: kodos


The Star Wars IP has just one big problem and that is the same as for Star Trek
J. J. Abrams

 Sqorgar wrote:
is perfectly playable for two players at $80, while I don't think Legion is playable at $90.

Legion offers a more playable game in the core Box than 40k for the same price

Yes you can start 40k with the Faction Starter and the free rules but you miss parts of the game
the same for Legion, except that the full rules are free to download and yes for 40k you need the rulebook and the codex or you have no scenarios, mission, command cards etc


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Legion will suffer from the same thing the other FFG properties do.
Once it moves out of Original Trilogy territory, to add armies, it will crap out and start to die off.

I would say the other way around, as soon as we get Clone Wars and Rebels the game will get a boost


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 21:10:31


Post by: Gimgamgoo


So many angry GW sychophants in this thread ranting about an entirely non-GW game. I can only imagine that Fear has led to Anger which has led to Hate.
Fear of a game possibly stealing away some of 40k's limelight for a short while.

It's a game! Not a way of life. You're not buying a life choice. You're not buying a puppy.
Stop using the word "investement".

You can buy a game, have fun painting the figures, have fun playing it for a while. Then stop.
You don't have to have continual releases for the money you spent on it make it 'worthwhile'.
It can go on the shelf at somepoint, or to a car boot, or put the figures away in a box or a display cabinet. If you feel you had fun for the money you spent then all well and good.

Oh, and all that gak about FFG will drop this game, "just look at their history blah blah blah".
Well, some people played Warhammer Fantasy Battles, one of 2 main games made by GW. Look at that now. Gone. History. Dropped. I guess looking at GW's history, that's 50% of their long term line up dropped. So all that gak about FFG dropping games, coming from GW fans... just a waste of bytes travelling down the interwebs. The only game they've made that is still going is 40k. And you've had to buy that 8 times over (and codices/supplements etc). The only thing remaining are the little toy soldiers. And then the continuing scale changes and removal of older models from the latest books means even those are a waste of time. Is that 'support'?

I'd so much rather be reading about what's coming for Star Wars Legion, short lived or not, DoA or not.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 21:46:43


Post by: AegisGrimm


Its hard to say whether Legion will peter out so stupidly early into the game. So many people complained about Armada and how it was going to die due to price, bad Core Set construction and lack of ships to pull from that it's become a running joke on the FFG forums, and the game has 7 waves of ships and a really good campaign set so far.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 21:48:48


Post by: TalonZahn


If you think there will be a boost when the Clone Wars come around.... you will be sorely surprised. In the U.S. the Prequels are pretty heavily panned and disliked.

People *might* buy some Clone Troopers ( I doubt it ) to fill out some "different" Stormtroopers, but they are already painting them to look like Clone Wars troopers.

So why buy more? lol

What's left outside of that from the Prequels? Gungans? Droids?

I stand by my assessment.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 21:54:08


Post by: warboss


 TalonZahn wrote:
If you think there will be a boost when the Clone Wars come around.... you will be sorely surprised. In the U.S. the Prequels are pretty heavily panned and disliked.

People *might* buy some Clone Troopers ( I doubt it ) to fill out some "different" Stormtroopers, but they are already painting them to look like Clone Wars troopers.

So why buy more? lol

What's left outside of that from the Prequels? Gungans? Droids?

I stand by my assessment.


I actually prefer the setting of the Clones Wars (although the prequel movies were obviously inferior IMO to the original trilogy) for most gaming and used to set my RPG during that time. I also think it works better for wargaming as well personally. I just have alot of good memories of the EU stories (mainly comics) set in that time that I strongly preferred to both Galactic Civil War and the post-original trilogy EU works (at least until the the Legacy era 130+ years ABY).


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 22:12:13


Post by: kodos


 TalonZahn wrote:
If you think there will be a boost when the Clone Wars come around.... you will be sorely surprised. In the U.S. the Prequels are pretty heavily panned and disliked.

this has nothing to too about the prequels or the movies in general (people play the game for the setting and not for a specific movie)
but the clone wars gives much more possibilities and it were the only part in the timeline were a wargame can shine

even Hoth was just one battle with a clear outcome while the clone wars give much more freedom


Legion has enough Fluff and good rules to keep people playing, the only thing were it can fail is too less variation in troops
and while the clones were just colored stormtroopers, the separatists had more than just droids
even a full wookie army is possible in clone wars


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 22:17:47


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


Im still waiting to buy in, want to see what else they come out with for the Empire. At the very least I'll be waiting for Veers and the Snow Troopers and then make them Imperial Marines.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/09 23:02:42


Post by: LunarSol


 TalonZahn wrote:
If you think there will be a boost when the Clone Wars come around.... you will be sorely surprised. In the U.S. the Prequels are pretty heavily panned and disliked


People don’t like the prequels? I had no idea...

The droid army is still good fodder for a war game and I always stand by the notion that any war game army full of things I hate gives me a great opportunity to kill them.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 00:11:28


Post by: Sqorgar


 Gimgamgoo wrote:
So many angry GW sychophants in this thread ranting about an entirely non-GW game. I can only imagine that Fear has led to Anger which has led to Hate.
Fear of a game possibly stealing away some of 40k's limelight for a short while.
Are you talking about me? I've never even played 40k. I've played more Runewars in the past year than anything by GW. My complaints are as a FFG customer.

If you feel you had fun for the money you spent then all well and good.
The thing I've been complaining about is that I HAVEN'T had fun for the money I spent.

Oh, and all that gak about FFG will drop this game, "just look at their history blah blah blah".
As a Runewars player, we had to wait months for all four factions, and even then, the Uthuk and Latari factions are currently lacking basic functionality that the other two have (ranged and second hero for Uthuk, melee for Latari). I think the last release (the Uthuk army expansion) was in November, and with Legion delaying things, it will probably be June before the next release (assuming there is one). There's been absolutely no communication at all since the announcement of the wraiths and scouts. I'm not sure what FFG could do to make me less optimistic about the future of the game.

FFG's competence here is directly related. It's not "look at their history to see how they've fethed up in the past" (and they have), it's "look at them fething up right now with something basically identical to Legion". The fact that Legion is Star Wars doesn't make me feel like the results of these decisions will turn out differently.

Well, some people played Warhammer Fantasy Battles, one of 2 main games made by GW. Look at that now. Gone. History. Dropped. I guess looking at GW's history, that's 50% of their long term line up dropped. So all that gak about FFG dropping games, coming from GW fans... just a waste of bytes travelling down the interwebs. The only game they've made that is still going is 40k. And you've had to buy that 8 times over (and codices/supplements etc). The only thing remaining are the little toy soldiers. And then the continuing scale changes and removal of older models from the latest books means even those are a waste of time. Is that 'support'?
I don't want Legion to fail. I want them to move past the obvious troop stuff and get to things like Ewoks (why start with Endor troops and not have Ewoks?) or Mon Calamari vs Quarren troops. I would kill to see a model of heavy Ithorian armor. I want a troop transport and a landspeeder. Is Kyle Katarn still canon in Disney's universe? I would literally recreate entire levels of Dark Forces if he got a model. I'd LOVE to see Clone Wars stuff (despite FFG refusing to admit that era exists, I would buy basically anything that showed up in RotS or the Clone Wars show).

I want Legion to succeed not because of what it currently has, but what it could have one day. That's what I'm talking about when I say investment. The game that is currently there is passable (my main complaints are about the starter set, not the game), and with a little work, it could be amazing. Right now, it is frustrating and there's insecurity about its handling.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 01:52:36


Post by: angel of death 007


 Sqorgar wrote:
 Kriswall wrote:

40k has exactly ONE way to get into the game if you're not interested in Primaris Marines or Death Guard and you want to play "standard", i.e. ~2000 point Matched Play games of 40k. Buy a core rule book. Buy one or more index/codex books and then spend enough money to buy 2000 points worth of models. You'll be in for hundreds and hundreds of dollars. First Strike, Know No Fear and Dark Imperium are only worthwhile if you're interested in those two specific factions.

There's several things here that I disagree with. The first is that not everybody plays at 2000 pts, especially new players. A starter box is something intended to teach a game, or at least present a representative sample of the game, not build a tournament level army. You could argue that the Warmachine starter box (Cryx vs Cygnar?) or Infinity starter box (PanO vs Nomads) are worthless if you don't want to play those armies, but that's not what the function of a two player starter box is, and that's why there are other, individual army starter boxes in addition to the two player starter boxes. Legion doesn't have that option.

Second, the core 40k rulebook is pretty optional. The core 8 pages of rules are freely available (and included in the starter sets), and the majority of the other rules in the rulebook are not immediately relevant to new players (most isn't relevant to old players either). Arguably, a new player could skip the codex as well, relying on the data sheets included with the models and using power levels to build armies. It's not optimal, but if you allow for the possibility that new players aren't going to tournaments the day after they start, it's at least playable without spending lots of money.

To get to tournament level, GW games are expensive. But for new players and casual players, it is not particularly expensive to get into the game. There's also multiple options that you can choose from. If price is a concern, GW has products for you. If choosing your army is a concern, GW has products for you. Legion has a single $90 entry point, which I would argue isn't a complete product, much less an actual entry point. Legion has a poor starter product and for players who are not yet ready to commit to a tournament army, or even to Legion as a whole, it probably does more harm than good.

Also, why are people saying that Disney is trying to kill Star Wars and that Star Wars is toxic? It's one of the strongest IPs in the market right now. Star Wars is a massive money maker. Is this just salt from people who didn't like the new movies?
It is salt (the new movies are objectively poorly written), but at the same time, Star Wars merchandise is rotting on clearance racks showing that the property is definitely not as healthy as when Disney bought it.


Most people who play 40k and are there for pick up games wanna play 2000 pts. Typically under this people think you are a noob and a lot of people don't want to teach the game. The core 8 page rules are good for a demo anything aside from that you need a full rulebook. Since most 40k players at my LGS are far from noobs skipping the codex will put you at a serious disadvantage or even a handicap which is why GW makes so much money on codex's which they don't need but it is pure gold money maker so they make it a necessity. Obvious to anyone considering they release a new codex every month/ or every other month and hardly ever new models with the new dex. So if you don't need a codex why is it the main thing GW puts out? I don't know one person who uses power levels to build an army at all. You are right new players are not going to tournaments, but most players at atleast my LGS who are looking for pickup games are going there with a 2000 point tournament list they want to play test. If this is different from the 40k norm in your area then I apologize but honestly this is the typical 40k regulars at my LGS and several other locations i have visited.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 03:26:44


Post by: Sqorgar


angel of death 007 wrote:
Most people who play 40k and are there for pick up games wanna play 2000 pts. Typically under this people think you are a noob and a lot of people don't want to teach the game.
We're talking about the cost of getting into 40k and starter products in general, so I am assuming we're talking about noobs. But I'm starting to understand why other people don't think the Legion starter box is a bad product. I'm guessing that if they have decided to play Legion, they've already bought two cores and an AT-ST, sight unseen. They don't use the starter box as an introduction, and their eye is on tournament level games, not simply experiencing what the game has to offer before deciding to buy more.

The core 8 page rules are good for a demo anything aside from that you need a full rulebook. Since most 40k players at my LGS are far from noobs skipping the codex will put you at a serious disadvantage or even a handicap which is why GW makes so much money on codex's which they don't need but it is pure gold money maker so they make it a necessity. ... I don't know one person who uses power levels to build an army at all. You are right new players are not going to tournaments, but most players at atleast my LGS who are looking for pickup games are going there with a 2000 point tournament list they want to play test.

That's one way to play, sure, but it isn't the only way. As a casual player, I mostly interact with other casual players, and we don't necessarily go to the LGS to play. We play on our own tables in our own houses. When we do play at the LGS, we generally play with a group of people we are familiar with rather than doing pick up games against strangers. I'd wager that there are plenty of casual, non-LGS games going on out there - possibly even more of them - and that the things your group thinks are so fundamental to the experience are not even a blip on the casual radar.

For instance, a two player starter set is obviously not designed for people who want to be up and running at 2000 pts for their first game. It's designed for friends, spouses, and siblings to dip their toes into the game - ones who may not have a strong opinion on Cygnar vs Khador and the current meta. Boxes like these are (usually) a self contained introduction to the game, a purchase more in line with buying a board game than investing in a game system. These starter sets usually represent a good value overall, so more hardcore players will still pick them up... but these boxes aren't designed for that audience. (Though I think that maybe Legion's is)

There was this episode of The Dice Tower called, Great Games We'll Never Play Again!. In it, all three of the panelists say Android: Netrunner, despite enjoying the game a lot, and all three of them bring up the exact same player who ruined the game for them by being aggressively hardcore about how it is played. There isn't just one audience for a game, and sometimes, people think that their aggressively hardcore approach is the only way to play a game, and not only is it offputting to other players, it has an opportunity to ruin the game for them forever. For some reason, what you wrote above reminded me of that.

If this is different from the 40k norm in your area then I apologize but honestly this is the typical 40k regulars at my LGS and several other locations i have visited.
I don't play 40k, but I suspect my local 40k group is very similar. But if I did play 40k, they wouldn't be the people I'd be playing against anyway.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 03:59:46


Post by: motyak


We seem to have strayed pretty far afield. Let's slow riiiight down on the off topic stuff and return to actual news and rumours alright? Actual discussion of this game can go in one of its discussion threads, it's why we've got em


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 05:58:20


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Edit: didn't see the warning.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 06:17:37


Post by: Chikout


So the fantasy flight website is pretty rubbish. It does a poor job of explaining the contents of the expansion packs or even showing when they are going to be released. I was interested in the snow troopers, but after clicking through three pages of unhelpful info all I can see is a release date of q1 2018 which has already finished. Is there a good Website that people go to for info?
Also why is the entire Imperial Assault line out of stock? Has it been discontinued in favour of Legions?


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 07:08:14


Post by: Krinsath


Chikout wrote:
Also why is the entire Imperial Assault line out of stock? Has it been discontinued in favour of Legions?


FFG has, to my knowledge, never sold Imperial Assault directly on their website. Persistent rumor is that Hasbro felt that it was a Star Wars board game and that the veneer given of a skirmish game as well was insufficient to get it out of the area of their own license. As part of a presumed settlement, FFG doesn't sell the product directly and it's only available via third parties. I've not come across anything official, but it's a rumor that would appear to have at least a ring of truth to it.

Now with the release of Legion I wouldn't be shocked to find out they weren't going to be doing major work on Imperial Assault anymore; if they do have restrictions put on their sale of the latter it means they get far better ROI on other products. It'd also be less strain on their production, which does seem to be However, there's been nothing official on that front (nor is there likely to be, as Sqorgar points out).


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 07:30:07


Post by: ingtaer


Generally FFG updates can be found here;
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/upcoming/

Though it is still vague as can be. This shows they are still printing IA stuff so it is not going anywhere. Strangely there is no mention of Legion stuff on the upcoming page, I haven't followed it too closely so don't know if their ever was.

According to the NZ distributor though the wave 2 Legion stuff is out on the 30th of June.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 12:56:30


Post by: Albertorius


EDIT: Whoops, didn't see the warning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Krinsath wrote:
Chikout wrote:
Also why is the entire Imperial Assault line out of stock? Has it been discontinued in favour of Legions?


FFG has, to my knowledge, never sold Imperial Assault directly on their website.

It seems to be a USA thing.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 13:13:18


Post by: Krinsath


 Albertorius wrote:
EDIT: Whoops, didn't see the warning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Krinsath wrote:
Chikout wrote:
Also why is the entire Imperial Assault line out of stock? Has it been discontinued in favour of Legions?


FFG has, to my knowledge, never sold Imperial Assault directly on their website.

It seems to be a USA thing.


Could be, though that's likely in line with violating the North American license but perhaps not the EU or other regions; it wouldn't be a stretch to figure that Lucas/Disney doled out regional exclusive licenses and not world-wide ones so there'd be more of them. It's also worth noting that "Not Available" is different from "Out of Stock" on FFG's website. Imperial Assault is listed under the former, while things out of stock are listed as that (e.g. - the X-Wing Rebel transport at the moment).

Moving back to the actual topic, has anyone heard if the plan is really to release Veers/Snowtroopers in the next few weeks and then Leia/Fleet troopers in a following month? That seems like what would be likely to happen based on their current status (Veers on the boat, Leia at the printer), but it does strike me as not particularly healthy for the product to give one faction (of two) a leg up for a month or so. Sure, it's not that much in the big picture, but it seems like it would unnecessarily sour some people. Not sure if it's better to keep a steady-if-unbalanced-drip of content coming out or to get symmetrical releases.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 13:58:39


Post by: ZebioLizard2


Given their previous statements it seems they will be releasing at least one expansion per month. FFG's site still has Veers and the snowtroopers as "on the boat" so to speak.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 14:34:23


Post by: LunarSol


 Krinsath wrote:

Moving back to the actual topic, has anyone heard if the plan is really to release Veers/Snowtroopers in the next few weeks and then Leia/Fleet troopers in a following month? That seems like what would be likely to happen based on their current status (Veers on the boat, Leia at the printer), but it does strike me as not particularly healthy for the product to give one faction (of two) a leg up for a month or so. Sure, it's not that much in the big picture, but it seems like it would unnecessarily sour some people. Not sure if it's better to keep a steady-if-unbalanced-drip of content coming out or to get symmetrical releases.


The plan is to do monthly releases and yes, it seems like that means Veers/Snowtroopers one month, Leia/Fleet the next, Barricades/Objectives after that, and Han/Scouts the month after. I'm sure we'll hear about the Imperial Han equivalent in a couple weeks as that keeps going.

Pretty much no hobby game ever gives parallel models out to its factions on the same release day. A month gap is actually pretty much the shortest I've seen and they seem to be staggering it in such a way that who's "ahead" changes. Really, it shouldn't matter after a couple rounds of releases as long as the game keeps its units relevant and doesn't follow X-Wing's path of "only the last releases matter".


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/10 15:41:27


Post by: Sqorgar


 ingtaer wrote:
Generally FFG updates can be found here;
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/upcoming/

Though it is still vague as can be. This shows they are still printing IA stuff so it is not going anywhere. Strangely there is no mention of Legion stuff on the upcoming page, I haven't followed it too closely so don't know if their ever was.

Not sure why you aren't seeing Legion stuff on the page, unless you are sorting by miniature games. For some reason, FFG puts it in the board game category on the upcoming page.

People have calculated the average wait time from In Development (months) -> Printing (3-8 weeks) -> On the Boat (4-6 weeks) -> Now Shipping (one week), but I'm pretty sure FFG fudges it a bit. We know FFG prints and ships entire cycles of their LCGs at the same time, but they still do a little bit of theater of putting it through this cycle on the upcoming page. Don't know what FFG's miniature production capacity is, but Legion could be the same way. It may be produced in waves, but released monthly.

Also, generally speaking, FFG announces new products (in existing lines) about 3-4 months before release. The third commander for the Imperials, if they are sticking to a monthly schedule, should be announced about a month after Han.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/11 01:38:52


Post by: ingtaer


Nah they just didn't show up, they do now.

Where have people got the idea that there will be month by month release? NZ distribution is showing Fleet troops/snow troops/Leia/Veers as all being released on the same day (30/06). Does that mean we have to wait for a single container load for all of it, I wonder.


Star Wars Legions News - Clone Wars Expansions p. 37 @ 2018/04/11 17:00:06


Post by: kodos


spanish FFG side says 27th of April for Veers and Snowtroopers and May for Leia and Fleet Troopers
http://www.fantasyflightgames.es/en_desarrollo