Hey guys Disdainful built the new DE minis from the black box and posted them on CNC. I think he may plan on posting them here too but I wanted to make sure everyone got a good first look at them! Check it out, he reviewed the construction process as well, they look awesome I can't wait.

Capture and Control: Dark Eldar Preview/Review Part 1 - Kabalite Warriors and Reavers

Yikes. That sounds not very fun with the whole ''gun 1 ONLY goes with arms 1''...

A Black Ram wrote:Yikes. That sounds not very fun with the whole ''gun 1 ONLY goes with arms 1''...

Agreed. It's a trend I've been noticing more and more with GW, and I find it defeats the main purpose of plastic models. If it's still going to be a pain to custom pose our minis, I think that's a huge value loss.

Anyway, very nice review.

while I have to agree that it kinda sucks to be stuck with a handful of poses, we're the hobby community, for cryin' out loud! When we want an alternate pose, we make an alternate pose.

That being said, methinks I'm getting one of those bikes for my fledgeling comission painting service, to act as part of my portfolio.

Commander Endova wrote:

A Black Ram wrote:Yikes. That sounds not very fun with the whole ''gun 1 ONLY goes with arms 1''...

Agreed. It's a trend I've been noticing more and more with GW, and I find it defeats the main purpose of plastic models. If it's still going to be a pain to custom pose our minis, I think that's a huge value loss.

I noticed this too. The most recent thing i can think of is the IoB models, where spear A had to go onto body A. Plastic models are supposed to be easy to pose, customise and convert. Hopefully this wont keep happening

Eldar Own wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:

A Black Ram wrote:Yikes. That sounds not very fun with the whole ''gun 1 ONLY goes with arms 1''...

Agreed. It's a trend I've been noticing more and more with GW, and I find it defeats the main purpose of plastic models. If it's still going to be a pain to custom pose our minis, I think that's a huge value loss.

I noticed this too. The most recent thing i can think of is the IoB models, where spear A had to go onto body A. Plastic models are supposed to be easy to pose, customise and convert. Hopefully this wont keep happening

Wait, they did?

Huh, no wonder those didn't go together easily.

I wish the review had given some more info on what weapons were included on the Warrior sprue is all. How many of the damn thing do I need to buy to make one squad of Trueborn the way I want it, lol.

Eldar Own wrote:I noticed this too. The most recent thing i can think of is the IoB models, where spear A had to go onto body A. Plastic models are supposed to be easy to pose, customise and convert. Hopefully this wont keep happening

Didn't they say this was the direction they wanted to go in - making the plastic kits more straight forward? They've done this in the current skaven and chaos fantasy regiments which both had more more parts in their previous releases.

When they started releasing the multipart plastic regiment boxes they got ever more complex. The first of what I think of as the the more modern multipart plastics were fantasy chaos warriors and then skeletons, but later they did stuff like Empire, and for 40K Eldar guardians and the rest. They got ever more complicated until they released the Skaven regiment which was insane, each one had seperate legs, arms head and tail and that's before optional bits and the shield. And they were tiny. They were worth the effort, but they were a lot of work. They've since re-released the skaven regiments and taken a somewhat backward step in making them less optional with fewer parts to create each figure. It looks like a fairly deliberate choice to me.

I love that. We want plastic models because they're easier to convert but when we get plastic models we complain that they aren't in enough variety right out of the box and we have to convert them.
Jesus.

Everything warriors can be equipped with are on the sprue. Arm swaps aren't all doom and gloom. I am putting it all together now for my store. Only thing missing is the upgraded close combat weapon for the reaver sprue. If you want an agonizer, vibro-sword or other special; you have to get it from warrior sprue or eBay it.

New Skaven Clanrats models are IMO a pretty good compromise between complicated multipart sets which took forever (and ended up looking pretty much the same anyway) and the plastic single pose lookalike clanrat models from the old days (which didn't even rank up!). The new set has 20 individual models each with their own character which is sufficient to create regiments which looked mixed.

I'm finding with the Ungor sprues at the moment that a mix of heads is enough to create individuality from 10 standard bodies.

There are specific limitations inherent in any type of mould making, so in order to get certain shapes out of plastic they literally have to chop the models up into a certain amount of pieces. This is especially true with something like the Reaver Jetbikes.


As for each model only having one way to assemble it, again it is a trade-off. You can either get a more generic, basic design for the models that allows a much wider range of potential limb placement, or you can get models that are only able to be posed one way out of the box but that pose is much more dynamic and exciting.

Personally all I have to do is look at the DE models to realize which choice is superior. I'll take the awesome looking poses, please! If it really bothers me that each unit has the same set of poses then I'll take the time to do some simple conversions, which is exactly what plastic modes allows you to do!

I'll just take all the female modeling parts thank you.

On the subject of arm a/gun a....do remember that the kits themselves are interchangable. This alone adds a great deal of potential variety, as it is a reasonable assumption that most people looking for added variety (due to finding certain poses repetitive) should have a few spares, odds and sods kicking around by then to aid in that.

yakface wrote:Personally all I have to do is look at the DE models to realize which choice is superior. I'll take the awesome looking poses, please! If it really bothers me that each unit has the same set of poses then I'll take the time to do some simple conversions, which is exactly what plastic modes allows you to do!

But is this actually the case?

What the review says is that weapon 1 goes with arms 1. It doesn't say that the weapon 1 + arms 1 also only go on body 1.

If you can put weapon/arms 1 on body 2, for example (if the bodies are numbered too, that is), then that would increase the number of poses significantly. If it's really only 10 different poses from each kit, then meh, but looking at the sprue at the GW site it seems that we are free to swap sets of arms and different bodies as we please.

yakface wrote:

Personally all I have to do is look at the DE models to realize which choice is superior. I'll take the awesome looking poses, please! If it really bothers me that each unit has the same set of poses then I'll take the time to do some simple conversions, which is exactly what plastic modes allows you to do!

That's very true. The old models where very static and 2 dimensional. I have to say I love the look they went for with the "evil Eldar Guardian" vibe. It works much better and the faces look so much nicer as well.

You really can't win trying to cater for such a diverse customer base. Make everything fully customisable, and you get complaints of excessive complexity; reduce the number of components for easier fit and quicker assembly, and you get complaints about lack of customisation. The fact that some arms/weapons have to be used together hardly 'defeats the purpose' of plastic models. Even the 2-piece plastic AoBR models are easier to customise than metal models.

The reviewer in the linked article may have slightly missed the point with the Warrior poses. They are almost certainly less dynamic by design, so as to better differentiate the Warriors from the Wyches (those leg poses are also very characteristic of Jes Goodwin's work). Also, you will presumably be able to use Wych legs if you want your Warriors to look as though they're moving quickly. That's the beauty of designing several sets of models at the same time. Looking at the WiP photos (as distinct from reading the review) just makes me want to get some of these models and see what can be done with them.

I really don't care, I'm just glad that there are models and that they look awesome.

I am already in love with the ball and socket flying stands. I wonder if they will sell those as bits.

"...but on the other hand I was hoping for more than ten guys in static, “knees slightly bent” standing poses with the odd set of “tentative step forward” legs and two “massive one-legged crouch” sets "


Why? don´t be so picky, mate. Practically ALL the 40k humanoid core troops are like that.

An interesting read anyways.

Got myself down to my FLGS the other day, and was given the nice treat of being able to hold one of the reavers up close. Very impressed by the level of detail, and the hair being whipped back really does give it the appearance of motion. I think the warriors arn't that bad TBH - enough variation for those no good at customisation, but still those skilled amongst us able to do so can find a way to make them different.

On the topic of model look and feel - whats people's opinions on Incubi/Archons?
The Incubi/Archons some people claim look too fantasy with the horns. Maybe a conversion job on the helmets, or even different heads altogether?





I'm not sure if you could file back the horns and still make them look good...probably better to go with a new helmet or just helmetless and take a head from any number of other models.

I personally prefer this archon model - lucky the archon comes with both options in the box.

What really cracks me up about the Incubi helmets are the spiky ears, not the horns (which, apart from being a bit ugly are not so out of place). I mean, sculpted ears over the real ears? what´s the point? Yeah, you are eldar, we get it.

Wiglaf wrote:What really cracks me up about the Incubi helmets are the spiky ears, not the horns (which, apart from being a bit ugly are not so out of place). I mean, sculpted ears over the real ears? what´s the point? Yeah, you are eldar, we get it.

So that they don't get confused with other masked figures on the battlefield:

White Mask with pointy ears and no smile = Incubi

Whie Mask with pointy ears and smile = Harlequin

White Mask with black armor and no ears or smile = Space Marine Chaplain

This reminds me of the new Reaver canopies...

warpcrafter wrote:I am already in love with the ball and socket flying stands. I wonder if they will sell those as bits.

The socket part of the joint is actually built into the model itself so bits buying the two parts won't help you that much with converting them for other bikes unless you want to use the Reaver bike as a basis for your conversion.

Scottywan82 wrote:How many of the damn thing do I need to buy to make one squad of Trueborn the way I want it, lol.

I'd say 4 boxes of warriors, only 1 of each special or upgrade weapon on the sprues from what I can see of the pics off the GW website. However, that's not taking into consideration making some GS molds to get the extra weapons needed.

I totally agree that the warriors probably needed to be a little more static in their posing to contrast the Wyches (who are all running and leaping and so on); I had this conversation at length with a friend in the store who is very sharp when it comes to modeling and has a keen eye for poses. I guess I was just not suitably 'wowed' by the minis, and the fiddly construction process didn't help. As stated in the review, they serve as basic troopers just fine, nothing more. I haven't seen the Wyche box yet, so I can't speak to their interchangeability, but if it really was Jes working on these basically by himself then we can expect them to all be fully integrated.

Based on the first looks at the codex, I don't see a lot of Warrior-based armies making the cut, so it may not matter. I'm just waiting for Hellions and Mandrakes!
-Dis.

The incubi are nice, but the horns are just a terrible excuse for chaos elves.

Rymafyr wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:How many of the damn thing do I need to buy to make one squad of Trueborn the way I want it, lol.

I'd say 4 boxes of warriors, only 1 of each special or upgrade weapon on the sprues from what I can see of the pics off the GW website. However, that's not taking into consideration making some GS molds to get the extra weapons needed.

How does one make a GS mold? Any links on that?

Oh come on the majority of the figures are plastic so its really easy to construct the poses you want just plan it first before you cut anything.

Scottywan82 wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:How many of the damn thing do I need to buy to make one squad of Trueborn the way I want it, lol.

I'd say 4 boxes of warriors, only 1 of each special or upgrade weapon on the sprues from what I can see of the pics off the GW website. However, that's not taking into consideration making some GS molds to get the extra weapons needed.

How does one make a GS mold? Any links on that?

There is an article about GS press molds on the Capture and Control site on the "Hobby" page.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:How many of the damn thing do I need to buy to make one squad of Trueborn the way I want it, lol.

I'd say 4 boxes of warriors, only 1 of each special or upgrade weapon on the sprues from what I can see of the pics off the GW website. However, that's not taking into consideration making some GS molds to get the extra weapons needed.

How does one make a GS mold? Any links on that?

There is an article about GS press molds on the Capture and Control site on the "Hobby" page.

Thank you kindly!

iLLiTHiD wrote:
On the topic of model look and feel - whats people's opinions on Incubi/Archons?
The Incubi/Archons some people claim look too fantasy with the horns. Maybe a conversion job on the helmets, or even different heads altogether?

Overall, I like the Incubi less than the plastics minis. They are attractive models, but I think the horns are too overtly Chaos-y, and they don't seem to quite fit with the rest of the model range. Their big swords are cool, but some of the Incubi are posed in such a way that they almost seem to be struggling to lift them. If I bought any I'd want to replace those heads, or at least file the horns off.

The Archon is okay, but I would try and do my own using the various plastic components. I agree that the head without the horns is much, much better.

Very cool models. The specific weapon to body/arms though is a bit 1998 for GW. I thought we'd moved past that.

spireland wrote:Very cool models. The specific weapon to body/arms though is a bit 1998 for GW. I thought we'd moved past that.

It really is... I would think they'd move past that. I do see the reasoning for it though. How many ways does a normal troop hold a rifle anyways? Besides that, seperate arms to rifles makes things even more fiddly....I'm having flashbacks of putting 40 kroot together...ugh, the horror.

Rymafyr wrote:

spireland wrote:Very cool models. The specific weapon to body/arms though is a bit 1998 for GW. I thought we'd moved past that.

It really is... I would think they'd move past that. I do see the reasoning for it though. How many ways does a normal troop hold a rifle anyways? Besides that, seperate arms to rifles makes things even more fiddly....I'm having flashbacks of putting 40 kroot together...ugh, the horror.

I don't know, I like the spikey heads and horns. Then again I have a WoC army for fantasy so I am probably a little partial I think I am happiest about the Archon being plastic, I love the plastic Space Marine Captain set (and I'm excited over the rumors about a plastic Chaplain/Librarian kit in the future) I get tired of trying to convert metal ICs with plastic bits and greenstuff to make them look different from everyone else's.

I thought the Archon was specifically not plastic. They've just tried to make the metal models in the range compatible with the plastics by having similar arm/head connections.

Wiglaf wrote:What really cracks me up about the Incubi helmets are the spiky ears, not the horns (which, apart from being a bit ugly are not so out of place). I mean, sculpted ears over the real ears? what´s the point? Yeah, you are eldar, we get it.

I can't image search at work so can someone answer this?

Didn't the Samurai Masks have ears?

The intention is to give the illusion that it is not a mask, I believe. So having features like ears makes sense.
Plus it helps "sell" the look. Without the ears it is definitely a helmet. With, well it could be their head.
After all, mandrakes don't have mouths.

Howard A Treesong wrote:When they started releasing the multipart plastic regiment boxes they got ever more complex. The first of what I think of as the the more modern multipart plastics were fantasy chaos warriors and then skeletons, but later they did stuff like Empire, and for 40K Eldar guardians and the rest. They got ever more complicated until they released the Skaven regiment which was insane, each one had seperate legs, arms head and tail and that's before optional bits and the shield. And they were tiny. They were worth the effort, but they were a lot of work.

They've since re-released the skaven regiments and taken a somewhat backward step in making them less optional with fewer parts to create each figure. It looks like a fairly deliberate choice to me.

I like the old, 5E Empire state troops - solid legs, and nice bitz. The Eldar Guardians were insane: 2 legs, 2 arms, torso & head, 2 vanes = minimum 1 part per point, with extra bitz for more.

I think GW finally got a key part of the model right in their heads, which is for gaming. The separate legs & torso makes a 3-part assembly which makes for an inherently weak model foundation. Make the legs & torso a single strong part, and the unnecessary breakage from handling drops dramatically. It's a good compromise between the durability mono-pose and the customizability of multi-part models.

A lot of my stuff (Eldar, IG, SoB, Inq) is 1-piece metal from 2E, and I really like the weight and durability.

If I recall correctly, the legs on the 3rd ed. starter box were all 1-piece bits, although they included actual space marine sprues there, so things have, indeed, changed. But the point here is more along the lines of "Is is really so impossible for xenos to get single-piece legs anymore?"

Other than Orks, Tau, Necrons and Kroot?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skrulnik wrote:

Wiglaf wrote:What really cracks me up about the Incubi helmets are the spiky ears, not the horns (which, apart from being a bit ugly are not so out of place). I mean, sculpted ears over the real ears? what´s the point? Yeah, you are eldar, we get it.

I can't image search at work so can someone answer this?

Didn't the Samurai Masks have ears?

The intention is to give the illusion that it is not a mask, I believe. So having features like ears makes sense.
Plus it helps "sell" the look. Without the ears it is definitely a helmet. With, well it could be their head.
After all, mandrakes don't have mouths.

Some samurai masks did, some didn't. They weren't all full face masks though and were part of a larger helmet. Ears were often present though, and were certainly present in japanese noh masks.

It's clearly meant to be a demon mask, I really don't get what people keep complaining about. "Eww, it has horns, but only Chaos have horns." I'm assuming these are amongst the same people that think nipples on BA embossed chest armour are gay. Because, you know...nipples.

Because I am old, the horn motif on the Dark Eldar figs make me think of old-timey D&D and the difference between demons & devils.

To me, the Dark Eldar are meant to be more like devils than daemons. Completely horrible and evil, but in a more regimented and disciplined way than the lunatic tentacle sex blargy-argy-argy of daemons.

In any case, the new Dark Eldar are definitely evil for the damage they're going to do to my wallet. BRING IT ON.

Going to want to get my hands on a Klaive or 2 for conversions sake.

man those look so bad ass...cant wait for the release! The older models should just be embarrased to even call themselves Dark eldar!

I like everything, especially the minimalist helmets on the jetbikes. Really sci-fi, but it might clash with the chaosy horns on the Incubi. I actually think the Archon could be used in a Chaos army no problem as a lithe and deadly slaanesh lord.

Dark Eldar deserve awesome models after the 15-year wait.

powerclaw wrote:

Dark Eldar deserve awesome models after the 15-year wait.

This is probably the most important point to be made about the range.

hubcap wrote:Completely horrible and evil, but in a more regimented and disciplined way than the lunatic tentacle sex blargy-argy-argy of daemons.

Yeah. that is going in my sig.

I really hate the look of the Incubi, there remind me to much of fanasty and there armor looks fanasty too... Im sticking with my old ones... I might incorparate the new swords into the older models, but Im disapointed in the Incubi and the Jets bikes.... I miss the spikes, and the riader looks like its out of Jedi... im looking too see if i can find a jabba and princess leia model small enough for it..... But i do like the codex as much as could read while having a hundred of people looking over my shoulder just to see the new army. I my self cant wait too model some whacks and grotestes again...

StarGate wrote: I miss the spikes

Chaos has plenty of them, you could shave some off a land raider or something

powerclaw wrote:I like everything, especially the minimalist helmets on the jetbikes. Really sci-fi, but it might clash with the chaosy horns on the Incubi. I actually think the Archon could be used in a Chaos army no problem as a lithe and deadly slaanesh lord.

Dark Eldar deserve awesome models after the 15-year wait.

It's 15 years now is it? It's bad enough when people complain about the "12 year wait" as though they've been expecting a full range re-do since the day DE first came out. Lets keep the hyperbole down to a dull roar shall we.

The old Incubi may have been amongst the best models in the old range but they look comical next to the new range.

plastictrees wrote:It's clearly meant to be a demon mask, I really don't get what people keep complaining about. "Eww, it has horns, but only Chaos have horns." I'm assuming these are amongst the same people that think nipples on BA embossed chest armour are gay. Because, you know...nipples.

Let's not go overboard and personally attack everyone who disagrees with you. I don't like the horns because I think they look silly. I can't imagine a case where the Imperial Guard commander is ordering his men to hold the line against an incoming squad of incubi. And his men are firm even against the prospect of being chopped to bits by filthy xenos with 4 ft long swords flying in on a skimmer decorated with the severed heads of their comrades. But then they see the helmets have horns, and everyone says that gak, and then they all flee for the hills. The incubi are already imposing models. They don't need to play a round of "who has the tallest hat" to be more scary. If they absolutely must have horns, I'd have preferred they be no more than half as long as they are, and be swept backward. Or possibly forward.

As it stands, the ideal defense against Incubi looks to be to build a bunker with a door that is only 5 feet tall.

plastictrees wrote:

powerclaw wrote:I like everything, especially the minimalist helmets on the jetbikes. Really sci-fi, but it might clash with the chaosy horns on the Incubi. I actually think the Archon could be used in a Chaos army no problem as a lithe and deadly slaanesh lord.

Dark Eldar deserve awesome models after the 15-year wait.

It's 15 years now is it?

It is. Codex: Eldar was released in 1994, almost exactly 15 years ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JOHIRA wrote: As it stands, the ideal defense against Incubi looks to be to build a bunker with a door that is only 5 feet tall.

LOL!

Thank goodness Guard Chimera doors are only 5 feet tall...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

plastictrees wrote:

powerclaw wrote:I like everything, especially the minimalist helmets on the jetbikes. Really sci-fi, but it might clash with the chaosy horns on the Incubi. I actually think the Archon could be used in a Chaos army no problem as a lithe and deadly slaanesh lord.

Dark Eldar deserve awesome models after the 15-year wait.

It's 15 years now is it?

It is. Codex: Eldar was released in 1994, almost exactly 15 years ago.

All those Eldar Exodite players must be getting really steamed at this point then.

skrulnik wrote:

Wiglaf wrote:What really cracks me up about the Incubi helmets are the spiky ears, not the horns (which, apart from being a bit ugly are not so out of place). I mean, sculpted ears over the real ears? what´s the point? Yeah, you are eldar, we get it.

I can't image search at work so can someone answer this?

Didn't the Samurai Masks have ears?

The intention is to give the illusion that it is not a mask, I believe. So having features like ears makes sense.
Plus it helps "sell" the look. Without the ears it is definitely a helmet. With, well it could be their head.
After all, mandrakes don't have mouths.

Yes, but Samurai are humans. Eldar aesthetics are about subtlety... and sculpted ears are unnecessary and a clumsy choice to insinuate their non human and sinister nature, imo. Instead of that I would have made the horns longer and narrower, more eldar-like to differentiate them more from chaosy ones.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:I am already in love with the ball and socket flying stands. I wonder if they will sell those as bits.

The socket part of the joint is actually built into the model itself so bits buying the two parts won't help you that much with converting them for other bikes unless you want to use the Reaver bike as a basis for your conversion.

Actually, I was thinking more of using them for Gargoyles. I've looked at Dremel kits before, and I seem to remember a grinder or sander head that might just work for making an indentation that is the same size as that ball. The old sort of flight stands with the skinny peg at the end are the worst thing GW has ever made.

Wiglaf wrote:


Yes, but Samurai are humans. Eldar aesthetics are about subtlety... and sculpted ears are unnecessary and a clumsy choice to insinuate their non human and sinister nature, imo. Instead of that I would have made the horns longer and narrower, more eldar-like to differentiate them more from chaosy ones.

Incubi Fare'elar: "Haha! Look at their clumsy human ears Mer'lyv!"
Incubi Mer'lyv: "Pardon?"

i've said it too much so im gonna say it again: the new incubi are not half as good as the old ones.

necrongod wrote:i've said it too much so im gonna say it again: the new incubi are not half as good as the old ones.

That is your opinion, and I certainly don't agree with it.

Imo those new Incubi are easily the best sculpts in the entire Dark Eldar range, both old and new.

I think it would be better if they had updated the old incubi rather than totally re-imagining them.

I'm 110% with you Phototoxin. They're no longer the same aspect warriors. Now they're just some mish-mash between a banshee and a scorpion. Even though that's all they were in the past too, the background they had to make them 'evil striking scorpions' was probably the best thing the old DE had going for them.

Now they may as well be some new aspect the Eldar came up with to worship demons and it fell out of favor during the fall.

They've effectively thrown out the whole Karrandras vs Arhra, Striking Scorpions vs Incubi angle. I mean why in the world was Arhra the original striking scorpion exarch? Nothing carried over between the 2.

Nvs wrote:I'm 110% with you Phototoxin. They're no longer the same aspect warriors. Now they're just some mish-mash between a banshee and a scorpion. Even though that's all they were in the past too, the background they had to make them 'evil striking scorpions' was probably the best thing the old DE had going for them.

Now they may as well be some new aspect the Eldar came up with to worship demons and it fell out of favor during the fall.

They've effectively thrown out the whole Karrandras vs Arhra, Striking Scorpions vs Incubi angle. I mean why in the world was Arhra the original striking scorpion exarch? Nothing carried over between the 2.

Except the heavy armor and brutal close-combat focus?

Oh you mean they don't have mandi-blasters?

It's as if the Dark Eldar don't have the rigid discipline and training of their more noble brethren!

JohnHwangDD wrote:I think GW finally got a key part of the model right in their heads, which is for gaming. The separate legs & torso makes a 3-part assembly which makes for an inherently weak model foundation. Make the legs & torso a single strong part, and the unnecessary breakage from handling drops dramatically. It's a good compromise between the durability mono-pose and the customizability of multi-part models.

A lot of my stuff (Eldar, IG, SoB, Inq) is 1-piece metal from 2E, and I really like the weight and durability.

What are you doing with your models? Weapons and fine parts can break with normal handling, but unless you're throwing them around the room the legs and bodies shouldn't be coming apart. I think your comment applies to WHFB models, where the need to rank them up limits the scope for posting them - it's actually better to have the legs and torso all in once piece. Orks and Marines have separate torsos and legs, and this adds a lot to their posability - I wouldn't want to lose that, but the current plastic Eldar definitely come in too many pieces. I've never seen this as an issue of durability though. Maybe use stronger glue?

Scottywan82 wrote:

Nvs wrote:I'm 110% with you Phototoxin. They're no longer the same aspect warriors. Now they're just some mish-mash between a banshee and a scorpion. Even though that's all they were in the past too, the background they had to make them 'evil striking scorpions' was probably the best thing the old DE had going for them.

Now they may as well be some new aspect the Eldar came up with to worship demons and it fell out of favor during the fall.

They've effectively thrown out the whole Karrandras vs Arhra, Striking Scorpions vs Incubi angle. I mean why in the world was Arhra the original striking scorpion exarch? Nothing carried over between the 2.

Except the heavy armor and brutal close-combat focus?

Oh you mean they don't have mandi-blasters?

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough... the argument was from a background point of view. The old models portrayed that feeling very well. The new ones have nothing in common with the old ones.

I love those flying bases on the bikes. I don't know how many times I have busted off a plastic nub from the current GW bases inside a Devilfish or a Piranha; they look stronger, and I love the ability to tilt the model. Those DE models are awesome too. And even just a little converting should solve any problems with the limited options for posing the arms.

necrongod wrote:i've said it too much so im gonna say it again: the new incubi are not half as good as the old ones.

Several posters seem to be advocating a point along these lines; just to be clear, when you say "the old ones", you mean


These?

And when we say "the new incubi" you mean these?

JOHIRA wrote:I don't like the horns because I think they look silly. ... The incubi are already imposing models. They don't need to play a round of "who has the tallest hat" to be more scary.

Uh...

Rose-colored glasses and all that.

My FLG had a box of Wyches, Warriors, Raider and Reavers come in along with the codex (not a black box, these were complete retail boxes) but he is not allowed to let me buy them till November 6.

I'm going to take a notebook down there tomorrow night and start messing around with lists. I'd also be willing to write down anything else that someone might want to know.

Buzzsaw wrote:

necrongod wrote:i've said it too much so im gonna say it again: the new incubi are not half as good as the old ones.

Several posters seem to be advocating a point along these lines; just to be clear, when you say "the old ones", you mean


These?

And when we say "the new incubi" you mean these?

JOHIRA wrote:I don't like the horns because I think they look silly. ... The incubi are already imposing models. They don't need to play a round of "who has the tallest hat" to be more scary.

Uh...

It's someone's opinion on what equates to being an art piece. Showing GW's pics of the old ones compared to the new ones doesn't really accomplish a whole lot,as I think most of us can agree that the paint job on the old models is pretty gak compared to the paint job done on the new ones. I can see where some people who actually spent some time painting the old Incubi and didn't just dry brush them and paint a couple of details would like their aesthetic better.

Buzzsaw wrote:Several posters seem to be advocating a point along these lines; just to be clear, when you say "the old ones", you mean

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/148577-Classic%20Incubi.html
These?

And when we say "the new incubi" you mean these?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/148579-De%20Incubi%2C%20DE%20Incubi.html

To be fair, the worst thing about those models are the stick-like abdomen and lack of a proper pelvis, rather than the distinctly Incubi aspects of the model.

Worst thing IMO with those old models was those shoulders...I know eldar (even dark eldar) are about ...but those just look awkward and highly impractical.

Sure some may argue why have any shoulder thingies at all? But at least the new ones are:

1. Facing upwards, so far less likely to break off in the thick of a melee (they also would theoretically protect the wearer from blows from behind - a practical application of armour)

2. Covered in spikes, gives that viscious and sadistic nature of the dark eldar so much more that just perfectly smooth shoulders (more akin to the noble eldar imo)


I must agree with the evaluation that the old models look very stick-thin, almost skeletal. And don't start me on those damn hats...lol I'm also not sure about the new horns, but hell, its alot better than a bloody christmas elf hat gone wrong!

Tailgunner wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I think GW finally got a key part of the model right in their heads, which is for gaming. The separate legs & torso makes a 3-part assembly which makes for an inherently weak model foundation. Make the legs & torso a single strong part, and the unnecessary breakage from handling drops dramatically. It's a good compromise between the durability mono-pose and the customizability of multi-part models.

A lot of my stuff (Eldar, IG, SoB, Inq) is 1-piece metal from 2E, and I really like the weight and durability.

What are you doing with your models? Weapons and fine parts can break with normal handling, but unless you're throwing them around the room the legs and bodies shouldn't be coming apart. I think your comment applies to WHFB models, where the need to rank them up limits the scope for posting them - it's actually better to have the legs and torso all in once piece. Orks and Marines have separate torsos and legs, and this adds a lot to their posability - I wouldn't want to lose that, but the current plastic Eldar definitely come in too many pieces. I've never seen this as an issue of durability though. Maybe use stronger glue?

I'm just playing them, and some times, accidents happen. Less breakable is better, because I'm in it for the long haul. I've had enough stuff break in the past that I just don't want to deal with the whole re-glue and re-touch nonsense.

Posability isn't a big deal, as long as there's some variety to work with. The "obvious" poses for legs + torso can be handled in the default sculpt, and being plastic, you can always recut and convert if needed.

I already use Testors gel, because it's the strongest plastic cement available.

Again, it's not that my stuff comes apart, but why not build stronger just because you can.

Ya know, I've been looking at the Dark Elf Dreadlord/Noble minis and not exactly feeling inspired, but those Incubi will make a beautiful stand-in.

Whatever1 wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:

necrongod wrote:i've said it too much so im gonna say it again: the new incubi are not half as good as the old ones.

Several posters seem to be advocating a point along these lines; just to be clear, when you say "the old ones", you mean

<Snipped for Brevity>
These?

And when we say "the new incubi" you mean these?
<Snipped for brevity>

JOHIRA wrote:I don't like the horns because I think they look silly. ... The incubi are already imposing models. They don't need to play a round of "who has the tallest hat" to be more scary.

Uh...

It's someone's opinion on what equates to being an art piece. Showing GW's pics of the old ones compared to the new ones doesn't really accomplish a whole lot,as I think most of us can agree that the paint job on the old models is pretty gak compared to the paint job done on the new ones. I can see where some people who actually spent some time painting the old Incubi and didn't just dry brush them and paint a couple of details would like their aesthetic better.

It's the paint job that's the critical issue here? Sure it's not, maybe...

AlexHolker wrote:
To be fair, the worst thing about those models are the stick-like abdomen and lack of a proper pelvis, rather than the distinctly Incubi aspects of the model.

iLLiTHiD wrote:Worst thing IMO with those old models was those shoulders...I know eldar (even dark eldar) are about ...but those just look awkward and highly impractical.

Sure some may argue why have any shoulder thingies at all? But at least the new ones are:

1. Facing upwards, so far less likely to break off in the thick of a melee (they also would theoretically protect the wearer from blows from behind - a practical application of armour)

2. Covered in spikes, gives that viscious and sadistic nature of the dark eldar so much more that just perfectly smooth shoulders (more akin to the noble eldar imo)


I must agree with the evaluation that the old models look very stick-thin, almost skeletal. And don't start me on those damn hats...lol I'm also not sure about the new horns, but hell, its alot better than a bloody christmas elf hat gone wrong!

By the by, can anyone seriously look at the new models against the old models, and think that the "tallest hat" are more pronounced?

Not to derail my snark, but I would point out there is a genuine question in my initial post: I am unfamiliar with the previous Dark Eldar line, so the picture of five Incubi I have up there is from GW's website, pulled up through a google search. I'm honestly not sure that when people say "the old Incubi model" that's what they mean.

Perhaps it's just my own twisted mode of thinking, but does anyone else think that these might look awesome with the blank-faced jetbike heads?

Just to clarify I like the new minis better than the old ones but I think there should have been some striking scorpion-ishness to them.

I personally think they'd look pretty nice with the mask helmet that comes with the new Dark Eldar warrior kit.

But then again, I have a thing for masks...

I really have no idea what some of you guys are thinking. Especially necrongod, who feels the need to express how he thinks the new incubi are worse than the old ones over, and over, and over...I just don't see how. It's unfathomable. I could open Pandora's Box and learn all the secrets of the universe and still not understand why the hell someone would prefer the old gakky models over the new blinding hotness.

But that's just my opinion I guess.

Agreed with Sidstyler. The new DE look much better than the old ones.

Sidstyler wrote:I really have no idea what some of you guys are thinking. Especially necrongod, who feels the need to express how he thinks the new incubi are worse than the old ones over, and over, and over...I just don't see how. It's unfathomable. I could open Pandora's Box and learn all the secrets of the universe and still not understand why the hell someone would prefer the old gakky models over the new blinding hotness.

But that's just my opinion I guess.

+1

just on the side, from another forum..
For models that would settle as warp beasts, something like the Warriors of chaos hounds could be used right without any conversion? As there is no overlapping from the fantasy - 40k range? But what about using Chaos Spawn as the Clawed Fiend? Is it allowed to just use a model from another team to represent it like that?

WYSIWYG?


*also, on the side, howd this go for a haemy conversion？ What do you guys think?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440102a&prodId=prod1050096

Maybe someone should take the old heads/SS heads, add some bitz, and stick them on the new bodies! Evil SS!

kanelom wrote:For models that would settle as warp beasts, something like the Warriors of chaos hounds could be used right without any conversion? As there is no overlapping from the fantasy - 40k range? But what about using Chaos Spawn as the Clawed Fiend? Is it allowed to just use a model from another team to represent it like that?

WYSIWYG?

Sure, as long as it's obvious what it's supposed to represent.

*also, on the side, howd this go for a haemy conversion？ What do you guys think?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440102a&prodId=prod1050096

I think that's an incredibly ugly miniature, in a bad way. If it was me, I'd go for something like this as a basis instead.

Nvs wrote:I'm 110% with you Phototoxin. They're no longer the same aspect warriors. Now they're just some mish-mash between a banshee and a scorpion. Even though that's all they were in the past too, the background they had to make them 'evil striking scorpions' was probably the best thing the old DE had going for them.

Now they may as well be some new aspect the Eldar came up with to worship demons and it fell out of favor during the fall.

They've effectively thrown out the whole Karrandras vs Arhra, Striking Scorpions vs Incubi angle. I mean why in the world was Arhra the original striking scorpion exarch? Nothing carried over between the 2.

They address your concern in the fluff section, and Arhra's section (Drazhar).

But I can't imagine you wouldn't have read the codex before you decided to attack the writing, right? That would just be silly.

I'm sure those scorpion hats looked awesome on paper, but they look completely slowed imho.

The shoulderpad thing I can understand, huge shoulderpads were all the rage back in the day for some godawful reason...

Is there any information about new models for Grotesques or Haemonculi,
or even models for Wracks?

Buzzsaw wrote:
[pics cut by JOHIRA]

JOHIRA wrote:I don't like the horns because I think they look silly. ... The incubi are already imposing models. They don't need to play a round of "who has the tallest hat" to be more scary.

Uh...

Whoa, sorry. I didn't realize anyone had noticed what I said, much less replied to it. I feel honored to receive your notice, sir!

Now yes, when you put the two pictures side by side the new Incubi are by every technical measure superior to the old ones. But there are two things that make the old helmets less silly in my opinion: First, the old helmets are tall because they have a gun in them. You're welcome to argue that having a gun mounted on your head is silly, but the point is the added height is there for a reason. It's not just decorative. Secondly, yes, the helmets are tall, but they are the tallest thing on the old Incubi (apart from the halberds, of course). On the new Incubi between their horns and their back vanes they have decorations extending up to 1.5 times the hight of their head. I don't care for it.

But even taking all of that into account, I think your quoting of my post is invalid because I never said the new ones are not as good as the old ones. I said I thought the horns on the new Incubi are silly. And I'm going to stand by that. This is not a zero-sum game where if I don't like one thing about the new I must hate it in comparison to the old. The new Incubi are generally extremely nice models. They just get silly with the headgear, IMHO. If I played DE I'd personally try to cut off the horns and either replace them with backwards-pointing horns, or some kind of slick helmet vane or stylized dreadlock thing. In fact, that could be a really cool way to allude to the rumours of their founder having been Ahra.

wuestenfux wrote:Is there any information about new models for Grotesques or Haemonculi,
or even models for Wracks?

Only that a next wave will concentrate on the Haemuculi units. No details as always.

Kroothawk wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Is there any information about new models for Grotesques or Haemonculi,
or even models for Wracks?

Only that a next wave will concentrate on the Haemuculi units. No details as always.

That would be absolutely great.

Just picked up the codex today and I have to agree that it is the Haemonculi and their creations that interest me the most.

Generalstoner wrote:Just picked up the codex today and I have to agree that it is the Haemonculi and their creations that interest me the most.

Indeed, the Haemonculi coven eventually provide some strong builds thanks to pain tokens (and arcane wargear?).

JOHIRA: More or less silly than the horned helmets of Chaos Space Marines?

I guess Predator-style dreads would have been cooler than horns, though. But in any case I like the look they went for and they're by far my favorite models out of the new range. I wish I bought more than one box, but that's what tax time is for right?

I just wish there were at least one-two more poses, but considering that there are only 3 mandrake poses I'd say that's a very minor gripe.

Sidstyler wrote:JOHIRA: More or less silly than the horned helmets of Chaos Space Marines?

Less silly. And compared to the CSM horned helmets where the horns join together at the tips and hold up skulls and things, they don't even register. It's not even a fair fight really, very little can out-silly 40K Chaos.

Kroothawk wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Is there any information about new models for Grotesques or Haemonculi,
or even models for Wracks?

Only that a next wave will concentrate on the Haemuculi units. No details as always.

Didn't they say on the videos that the next releases would be the venom and more wyche stuff? Or am i misremembering?

I love everything about the revision of the DE, I cant wait to start collecting an army!