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Post by: ironicsilence
 valkyriePROfail wrote:Why do some people take like for granted that assault marines are all about jp?
ASM in LASPLAS/ AC razorback and meltagun/flamer troops at 165 points per squad is dead. And this is what hurts most about it.
That is more than saying that all jp army is dead. The 35 points discount in vehicles was a bless in a codex with such pricey units points wise.
Pretty much this, I have a 2000 point ASM in razorback army which is now largely no longer usable
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Post by: MaxT
Until the FA focused detachments/formations come out in the next couple of weeks.
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Post by: Red Marine
Im really not liking the rumored changes to dreadnaughts. If true I think we've really lost something. BAs could take a lot of good Dreads. Reducing the possible number of Dreads and nerfing them at the same time really hurts. Not that they were ever super powerful, but armor saturation is a real thing. A couple of Dreads and a Pred with a Rhino worked.
Im still scratching my head on the new Termi models. Terminators suck a full bag of rotten donkey ¢*©k. GW could make them out of gold for $5 a piece and never sell one of them. Which is awful, because there iconic outclassics.
I always prefered more SCI-fi in my sci-fantasy, so less blood thirsty flying lunatics trying to destroy armored vehicles with a pointy stick is fine by me. Not that i don't think it was a dick move, but im sure they'll release a data slate or something that will cover it.
Im also not thrilled by these chapter tactics. Pus one Int helps in assault against SMs but not much else. Moving DOA to a warlord trait was a surprise. Anyone else got a read on our future chapter tactics?
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Post by: sockwithaticket
They shouldn't be releasing datasheets to fix things or offer more options (for extra money) they should be in the fething codex from the off, particularly when the damned thing costs £30 to begin with.
This is doubly the case when they knowingly invalidate previous army builds. If they provide a mechanism to bypass their dickishness as a dataslate or formation then it should be in the book.
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Post by: WellSpokenMan
Hmm, so Drop Pods are in FA. Cassor looks better now that I can get him a ride.
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Post by: MaxT
 sockwithaticket wrote:They shouldn't be releasing datasheets to fix things or offer more options (for extra money) they should be in the fething codex from the off, particularly when the damned thing costs £30 to begin with.
This is doubly the case when they knowingly invalidate previous army builds. If they provide a mechanism to bypass their dickishness as a dataslate or formation then it should be in the book.
In that I agree, but you can't expect GW to change their entire business model just for your Blood Angels. GW's DLC propensities are a joke, but that's not a BA issue, that's a GW issue.
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Post by: sockwithaticket
I know, I know. Just venting really.
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Post by: valkyriePROfail
I really hope furiosos and the frag cannon aren't nerfed in any way. They aren't like broken or anything close but still the best unit in the codex.
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Post by: Lowb
valkyriePROfail wrote:I really hope furiosos and the frag cannon aren't nerfed in any way. They aren't like broken or anything close but still the best unit in the codex.
My Death Company guys would like to have a word with you...
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Post by: DO IT TO IT
I read on (I think) Bolter & Chainsword that frag cannons are now 5 pts and their stats are the same.
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Post by: valkyriePROfail
Lowb wrote: valkyriePROfail wrote:I really hope furiosos and the frag cannon aren't nerfed in any way. They aren't like broken or anything close but still the best unit in the codex.
My Death Company guys would like to have a word with you...
Its always risky to say "best unit" but your DC boys would agree at some point 
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Post by: PhillyT
People upset about the movement of Assault Marines from troop haven't been paying attention to the previous codex releases. Look at orks, two options at troop and no means of shifting slots around.
They are fine doing this because you can just represent the assault armies with unbound lists. Just because most people want to ignore that doesn't mean GW is going to play that game and alter the army to allow for it.
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Post by: lawlskees
I can kind of see where people are pissed. Some players, like me, play for fun. Others play to win. What is kind of Ironic, most of the people who are complaining about the Assault Marine change seem to be mostly concerned with competitive play. However, an all jump pack list isn't competitive WHAT-so-ever. Only mech lists, such as non-jump pack marines in razorback spam, is somewhat competitive and was a few years back. Another point to make, lets say GW came out with a new "killer" unit for blood angels, everyone wouldn't be complaining about spending money. You all would be rushing to the store. HELL THE DAMN BA DICE ARE SOLD OUT! Yes, it is only a TAC squad, but it's beautiful!
What drew me the most to play blood angels was death company. They are hard to use but the challenge of getting them into the assault and wreaking havoc is exhilarating.
So the biggest issue for myself is the weapon skill reduction from 5 to 4, same for DC Dread. To me this is the worst change and it really does piss me off. I'm surprised nobody else is really mentioning this. BTW, Assault marines suck and unless your playing for fun, I feel very sorry for you.
The GOOD:
GUYS! We get our own freaking powers! How worried were we a few months back when 7th came out? Everyone was pissed because Mephy lost his powers and we were going to be stuck with the crappy powers for librarians.
Dante is a absolute beast now. We finally have a character that strikes at a good initiative with an AP2 weapon. Lysander Can't do that. Only a Captain with a 50 point burning blade upgrade can. (I REALLY HOPE DANTE STILL HAS HIT AND RUN)- can you imagine?
Our tactical squads are arguably the best in the Astarte now, depending on who you talk to. Especially for us since we are assault oriented. 4 flamers? Cmon guys...
POINTS REDUCTION? the biggest complaint of all. DO I need to say more?
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Post by: masquerade81
Is there any word yet about the drop pods? Can they be bought empty as fast attack or not?
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Post by: Redemption
 masquerade81 wrote:Is there any word yet about the drop pods? Can they be bought empty as fast attack or not?
Yes
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
GLad to see that Vindicators can still be made fast.
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Post by: WellSpokenMan
lawlskees wrote:I can kind of see where people are pissed. Some players, like me, play for fun. Others play to win. What is kind of Ironic, most of the people who are complaining about the Assault Marine change seem to be mostly concerned with competitive play. However, an all jump pack list isn't competitive WHAT-so-ever. Only mech lists, such as non-jump pack marines in razorback spam, is somewhat competitive and was a few years back. Another point to make, lets say GW came out with a new "killer" unit for blood angels, everyone wouldn't be complaining about spending money. You all would be rushing to the store. HELL THE DAMN BA DICE ARE SOLD OUT! Yes, it is only a TAC squad, but it's beautiful!
What drew me the most to play blood angels was death company. They are hard to use but the challenge of getting them into the assault and wreaking havoc is exhilarating.
So the biggest issue for myself is the weapon skill reduction from 5 to 4, same for DC Dread. To me this is the worst change and it really does piss me off. I'm surprised nobody else is really mentioning this. BTW, Assault marines suck and unless your playing for fun, I feel very sorry for you.
Swapping Black Rage for Rage (which allows them to score), Jump packs being very reasonable, and the limit of one unit being removed seem to have taken the edge off the WS loss. Not to mention the possibility of having them strike at Init 5. Properly equped they can wipe out whole units of MEQ without taking a single wound.
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Post by: Azreal13
 PhillyT wrote:People upset about the movement of Assault Marines from troop haven't been paying attention to the previous codex releases. Look at orks, two options at troop and no means of shifting slots around.
I've seen other people struck in the face with a mallet, I can see the mallet as it swings towards my face. How much less annoyed does that make me when the mallet hits me in the face?
They are fine doing this because you can just represent the assault armies with unbound lists. Just because most people want to ignore that doesn't mean GW is going to play that game and alter the army to allow for it.
But, as has already been pointed out, Unbound comes with it's own set of compromises and isn't really a valid solution.
Additionally, what I haven't seen really discussed anywhere, is with the loss of ASM as troops for BA, it has been taken away from other options too. Want to run a codex chapter 8th company army? Use the BA codex! Want to use another chapter, Legion or Warband which heavily favours assault troops? Use the BA codex! Simply want to represent a fast moving Vanguard force comprised solely of fast moving, close assault units? Use the BA codex!
While GW apparently give us lots of options so we have a sandbox to play in, they keep taking significant options away.
Unbound is not a solution, at best it's a finger in the dyke.
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Post by: Makinit
Any word on BA dreads still being able to take the claws that allow an extra hit for every unsaved wound? Us Orkz would like to know.
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Post by: lawlskees
The "I wish Matt Ward would have written this codex" ........I couldn't stop laughing.
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Post by: Lowb
 Makinit wrote:Any word on BA dreads still being able to take the claws that allow an extra hit for every unsaved wound? Us Orkz would like to know.
That rule is gone, those give Shred now, like lightning claws do....
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Post by: Makinit
Lowb wrote: Makinit wrote:Any word on BA dreads still being able to take the claws that allow an extra hit for every unsaved wound? Us Orkz would like to know.
That rule is gone, those give Shred now, like lightning claws do....
Da Boyz will be 'appy to hear dat.
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Post by: Nightlord1987
Any news on Dante's Cheese Mask Curse? The one that subtracted 1 from EVERY STAT LINE from a character? Is it gone? Please tell me it's gone....
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Post by: niv-mizzet
Makinit wrote:Lowb wrote: Makinit wrote:Any word on BA dreads still being able to take the claws that allow an extra hit for every unsaved wound? Us Orkz would like to know.
That rule is gone, those give Shred now, like lightning claws do....
Da Boyz will be 'appy to hear dat.
Yep. 10 points to gain shred on an already s10 ap2 attack is probably the worst spent 10 points in the book now. Blenderosos are no longer a thing. It's now one of those "noob-check" options, just thrown in to quickly separate who is decent at list building and who is terrible.
Our local ork and tyranid players are also cheering. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Nightlord1987 wrote:Any news on Dante's Cheese Mask Curse? The one that subtracted 1 from EVERY STAT LINE from a character? Is it gone? Please tell me it's gone....
I've been searching far and wide for this answer, and no one has bothered to mention it yet.
If it's still there, Dante is an absolute monster now. If not, he's still pretty hot.
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Post by: Eldercaveman
Nightlord1987 wrote:Any news on Dante's Cheese Mask Curse? The one that subtracted 1 from EVERY STAT LINE from a character? Is it gone? Please tell me it's gone....
An educated guess would say it's gone, and it is now what causes his fear bubble, since it is just a better death mask, and death masks now cause fear.
Note, no evidence just pure guess work.
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
It IS gone indeed, and Dante's got Hit'n'run.
Eternal warrior still make him hot ,especially hitting at strength 6AP2 at I 6!
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Post by: Kangodo
lawlskees wrote:I can kind of see where people are pissed. Some players, like me, play for fun. Others play to win. What is kind of Ironic, most of the people who are complaining about the Assault Marine change seem to be mostly concerned with competitive play. However, an all jump pack list isn't competitive WHAT-so-ever. Only mech lists, such as non-jump pack marines in razorback spam, is somewhat competitive and was a few years back. Another point to make, lets say GW came out with a new "killer" unit for blood angels, everyone wouldn't be complaining about spending money. You all would be rushing to the store. HELL THE DAMN BA DICE ARE SOLD OUT! Yes, it is only a TAC squad, but it's beautiful!
Additions are never a bad thing, it are 'deletions' that upset people.
What drew me the most to play blood angels was death company. They are hard to use but the challenge of getting them into the assault and wreaking havoc is exhilarating.
So the biggest issue for myself is the weapon skill reduction from 5 to 4, same for DC Dread. To me this is the worst change and it really does piss me off. I'm surprised nobody else is really mentioning this. BTW, Assault marines suck and unless your playing for fun, I feel very sorry for you.
The Priest/Corbulo brings them back to WS5 
WS, S and I5 Death Company-squads with cheap JP's should ease the pain.
There is also more 'GOOD' than what you just said 
I think that the Codex seems extremely strong and fun, it's just a little pain that the ASM/ DC are no longer Troops.
It'd be nice if we could just accept that some people don't like this change and then we can all continue to freak out over how awesome everything else looks.
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Post by: Mavnas
Clearly BA need an FA heavy detachment, so that I can run it to buy empty pods for my primary. GW would make hundreds off the drop pods they could sell me alone.
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Post by: Carnage43
Mavnas wrote:Clearly BA need an FA heavy detachment, so that I can run it to buy empty pods for my primary. GW would make hundreds off the drop pods they could sell me alone.
2 compulsory FA choices and a techmarine as HQ. Call it the "rental pod" detachment.
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Post by: PlaguelordHobbyServices
Wasn't there a screenshot earlier saying that Blood Claws STILL got their extra attacks?
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Post by: th3maninblak
Claws are strx2 ap2 shred. No extra attacks.
But a Death Company dread is 140 for a dude with magna grapples and blood talons that ignores shaken and stunned, and has rage.
6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the charge at initiative 5 on a dread that doesnt get shaken or stunned and all but ignores cover is SWEET.
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
It's not in the codex at least. Death company and its dread are Elites, while they're shown as Troops in the Deathstorm leaflet too. I don't quite get it
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Post by: Zewrath
valkyriePROfail wrote:Why do some people take like for granted that assault marines are all about jp?
ASM in LASPLAS/ AC razorback and meltagun/flamer troops at 165 points per squad is dead. And this is what hurts most about it.
That is more than saying that all jp army is dead. The 35 points discount in vehicles was a bless in a codex with such pricey units points wise.
Fun fact, assuming the tactical squad costs the same as C: SM, a group of 5 marines + melta gun + combi-melta and lasplas razorback is exactly 165 points. GW just wants you to replace what you already have with tactic squads instead.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Or he could play Black Templars and get the CCW/ BP Marines w/Special Weapon and combi in a slower vehicle for the exact same cost (so one more weapon in exchange for not fast).
Either way, still looking forward to more leaks. Give me moar info!!!! 
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Post by: Warhams-77
The formation in the upcoming White Dwarf
Got the new WD today, there's a Flesh Tearers formation in it. I'd post pics, but mine is in german, so it'd be useless.
It consists of 3 tactical squads, 1 assault squad, 1 vanguard squad and 1 furioso.
The entire formation ignores disordered charges and are stubborn as long as the vanguard vets are alive. They also all gain +1I on the charge.
Source: 4chan /tg
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Post by: Hulksmash
Oh my.....Another Formation but it sounds like a not horrible one.
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Post by: Red Corsair
 Deadshot wrote:Vendablefall wrote: Bla_Ze wrote:Who cares about AM being tropps? I have played since 2E and i certainly dont...
What troubles me is what happens with the honour guard 
totally agree, ive also played since 2nd andam not worried about the ASM slot swap, i feel the change taking the BA back to bemore like i have them pictured in my head, we can still take 7 squads of jumpers as others have stated..
can no one think of the honor guard!!!! my beautiful gold paint jobs are getting stripped and painted black :-(
Many have only played since 5th or 3rd, and so actually DO care. Plus, not many actually care about Honour Guard, because Command Squads are better with multiple special weapons, and Sanguinary are better jumpers and guards with their 2+ save and power weapons all around.
You say "we can still take 7 Jumper Squads"... C: SM can take 6. Not exactly a major leg up in that department, especially as one such unit is Honour Guard that are pretty poor points sinks in comparison to vehicles or other JP units.
In 3rd assaults were not troops either. Not sure what your getting at, the majority of the track BA have only had tactical and scouts for troops.
To recap 2nd, 3rd and now 7th have all been tacs/scouts only while 4th(white dwarf awful dex) and 5th(previous) had assaults in troops.
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Post by: Warhams-77
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Post by: Red Corsair
 th3maninblak wrote:Claws are strx2 ap2 shred. No extra attacks.
But a Death Company dread is 140 for a dude with magna grapples and blood talons that ignores shaken and stunned, and has rage.
6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the charge at initiative 5 on a dread that doesnt get shaken or stunned and all but ignores cover is SWEET.
I love walkers that tear face but I fear immobilized results more then explodes
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Post by: Kaughnor
 Zewrath wrote: valkyriePROfail wrote:Why do some people take like for granted that assault marines are all about jp?
ASM in LASPLAS/ AC razorback and meltagun/flamer troops at 165 points per squad is dead. And this is what hurts most about it.
That is more than saying that all jp army is dead. The 35 points discount in vehicles was a bless in a codex with such pricey units points wise.
Fun fact, assuming the tactical squad costs the same as C: SM, a group of 5 marines + melta gun + combi-melta and lasplas razorback is exactly 165 points. GW just wants you to replace what you already have with tactic squads instead.
I think the razorback/rhino's cost ten points more for fast now (at least according to the info dumped yesterday on 4chan) so 175 points for that set up. Sergeants have access to inferno pistols now as well. If (and big if) they can equip 2 I`m thinking an MSU squad with 2 inferno pistols, melta gun in razorback with heavy flamer would be a solid unit for 165 points.
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Post by: Red Corsair
Except I bet inferno pistols are at least 15pts a piece, I also doubt sergents will be able to dual wield (just like other recent books disallow) but assuming you can that is +30 pts for a 6" threat range 3" if you want to have armor bane ..... I mean if you really want to
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Post by: DarthOvious
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Post by: Kaughnor
 Red Corsair wrote:Except I bet inferno pistols are at least 15pts a piece, I also doubt sergents will be able to dual wield (just like other recent books disallow) but assuming you can that is +30 pts for a 6" threat range 3" if you want to have armor bane ..... I mean if you really want to
Ya pistols are probably not the go to but for 145 points you get the heavy flamer razorback with melta gun and combi melta. Not to mention the marines are I5 with furious charge. I`m liking these changes. More than anything the points adjustment across the board allowing me to pack more objective secured marines into a list.
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Post by: Carnage43
What's all pretty self explanatory....anything specific you need?
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Post by: WellSpokenMan
Could somebody summarize, for those of us at work. My net nanny said no.
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Post by: DarthOvious
 Carnage43 wrote:
What's all pretty self explanatory....anything specific you need?
Kind of wanted to know what The Sanguinor does now. I know the details that have been said about him but does he gain IC? Also does he keep his aura for +1A?
EDIT: From what I can see he doesn't get it which I think sucks pretty bad.
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Post by: TheDraconicLord
 DarthOvious wrote: Carnage43 wrote:
What's all pretty self explanatory....anything specific you need?
Kind of wanted to know what The Sanguinor does now. I know the details that have been said about him but does he gain IC? Also does he keep his aura for +1A?
EDIT: From what I can see he doesn't get it which I think sucks pretty bad.
The "Aura de Fervor" says all Blood Angels units that are 6'' or under gain +1A.
EDIT: Not sure about the IC. It says he's a Jump Unit (Character) and it says he's Unique.
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Post by: Azreal13
Furious charge, Eternal Warrior, Fearless
+1A for all BA within 6"
Something that appears to be to do with HoW
Don't even speak Spanish!
He is NOT a personaje Indpendiante.
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Post by: Destrado
Carnage43 wrote:
What's all pretty self explanatory....anything specific you need?
Sanguinor has Furious Assault, Courage (? I'm guessing Fearless) and Eternal Warrior. He re-rolls Impact Hits and To Wound in challenges (Angel of Vengeance?), also has an Aura of Fervour, meaning every miniature within 6" gets +1 Attack.
Wargear is Artificier armour, blade encarmine, iron halo, deathmask, jumppack, frag'n'krak.
Astorath has Bolt Pistol, Executioner's Axe, and Blood Liturgies (literal translation).
Our favourite Blood Angels Chaplain has Feel no Pain, Relentless, Fanatic, Rage, can only join DC, the first wound he suffers he will had +1 Str and Att for the rest of the turn/game? (not sure). Oh and the BLOOD CROZIUS. For the BLOOD... erm.
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Post by: DarthOvious
 TheDraconicLord wrote: DarthOvious wrote: Carnage43 wrote:
What's all pretty self explanatory....anything specific you need?
Kind of wanted to know what The Sanguinor does now. I know the details that have been said about him but does he gain IC? Also does he keep his aura for +1A?
EDIT: From what I can see he doesn't get it which I think sucks pretty bad.
The "Aura de Fervor" says all Blood Angels units that are 6'' or under gain +1A.
EDIT: Not sure about the IC. It says he's a Jump Unit (Character) and it says he's Unique.
Yep, that means he still can't join squads which is a bit rubbish. He would be good otherwise but by himself he is just going to get pelted with firepower. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Azreal13 wrote:Furious charge, Eternal Warrior, Fearless
+1A for all BA within 6"
Something that appears to be to do with HoW
Don't even speak Spanish!
He is NOT a personaje Indpendiante.
Thank You Automatically Appended Next Post:  Destrado wrote: Carnage43 wrote:
What's all pretty self explanatory....anything specific you need?
Sanguinor has Furious Assault, Courage (? I'm guessing Fearless) and Eternal Warrior. He re-rolls Impact Hits and To Wound in challenges (Angel of Vengeance?), also has an Aura of Fervour, meaning every miniature within 6" gets +1 Attack.
Wargear is Artificier armour, blade encarmine, iron halo, deathmask, jumppack, frag'n'krak.
Astorath has Bolt Pistol, Executioner's Axe, and Blood Liturgies (literal translation).
Our favourite Blood Angels Chaplain has Feel no Pain, Relentless, Fanatic, Rage, can only join DC, the first wound he suffers he will had +1 Str and Att for the rest of the turn/game? (not sure). Oh and the BLOOD CROZIUS. For the BLOOD... erm.
Thank You
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Post by: Carnage43
DarthOvious wrote: Carnage43 wrote:
What's all pretty self explanatory....anything specific you need?
Kind of wanted to know what The Sanguinor does now. I know the details that have been said about him but does he gain IC? Also does he keep his aura for +1A?
EDIT: From what I can see he doesn't get it which I think sucks pretty bad.
No IC from what I can tell, but still has the +1A aura.
Artificier Armor
Encarmine blade
Frag and krak grenades,
Death mask
Iron Halo (no more 3++)
Jump pack
Heroic mark? (Sergeant buff skill I assume?)
Eternal warrior
Furious charge
Fearless
Reroll hits and wounds in duels?
+1 Attack aura.
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Post by: Andilus Greatsword
 B0B MaRlEy wrote:It IS gone indeed, and Dante's got Hit'n'run.
Eternal warrior still make him hot ,especially hitting at strength 6AP2 at I 6!
GOOD. I fething hated that thing, it was like an automatic handicap with absolutely no counter or downside.
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Post by: Rippy
 Andilus Greatsword wrote: B0B MaRlEy wrote:It IS gone indeed, and Dante's got Hit'n'run.
Eternal warrior still make him hot ,especially hitting at strength 6AP2 at I 6!
GOOD. I fething hated that thing, it was like an automatic handicap with absolutely no counter or downside.
Yeah agreed, Dante is still a boss though.
Here is hoping that CSM gets the same treatment, Abaddon and Typhus getting buffs and LOW status. Typhus hitting at initiative, yes please.
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Post by: valkyriePROfail
Zewrath wrote: valkyriePROfail wrote:Why do some people take like for granted that assault marines are all about jp?
ASM in LASPLAS/ AC razorback and meltagun/flamer troops at 165 points per squad is dead. And this is what hurts most about it.
That is more than saying that all jp army is dead. The 35 points discount in vehicles was a bless in a codex with such pricey units points wise.
Fun fact, assuming the tactical squad costs the same as C: SM, a group of 5 marines + melta gun + combi-melta and lasplas razorback is exactly 165 points. GW just wants you to replace what you already have with tactic squads instead.
ASM transport discount comes from dropping their jp. Are you considering that discount for tacticals? If im not mistaken tacs cost 90 and ASM 100. I dont have the old codex handy so im just guessing.
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Post by: BrokenRecord
I am going to assume that Dante still lacks any kind of invulnerable save? Not that it is in any way a deal-breaker, but it would be nice if he got an iron halo or something!
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Post by: BeeCee
Dante has always had an iron halo.
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Post by: Kangodo
Dante always had an Iron Halo.
You're probably talking about Mephiston?
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Post by: Red__Thirst
 BrokenRecord wrote:I am going to assume that Dante still lacks any kind of invulnerable save? Not that it is in any way a deal-breaker, but it would be nice if he got an iron halo or something!
Dante has always had an invulnerable save ever since the 3rd Edition codex. He's been Artificer Armor/Iron Halo (2+/4++) for a long long time. He's never not had an invulnerable save to my knowledge?
Mephiston is the one who hasn't had an invulnerable save by default since I can remember, he's just rocking Artificer Armor. (2+ save)
Dante is looking to be an absolute monster in close combat. Descent of Angels by default, regular meltagun profile in a pistol format for a bonus melee attack, a +2 strength power axe (Axe Mortalis) that swings at initiative(!!) and is AP:2, Saves 2+/4++ with Eternal Warrior, Death Mask that causes Fear in a 6" bubble, Independent Character, jump pack for rapid movement and bonus Hammer of Wrath attacks, Furious Charge, crazy good stat line, and now apparently Hit & Run too?
I'm so happy he's finally got the clout he deserves. He's always been kinda 'meh' in every previous codex. WHY it took this long for Dante, who's over 1100 years old, to get the Eternal Warrior USR is beyond me, but he's got it now so that's what matters!
Take it easy for now.
-Red__Thirst-
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Post by: kryczek
I'm just happy getting Dante back TBH. The ASM is a bit of a kick but the point's drop's all round seem to be good. Goodbye HS normal dread this annoyed me more than the assault squad's.
Did they get flakk on the dev's? I'm sure they would've but you never know with GW.
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Post by: th3maninblak
Spanish is a bit rusty, but mephiston is going to entirely depend on his points cost. His statline is still very strong, particularly since hes an IC. Transfixing gaze is marginally useful, but i cant make out if he gets his special sanguine sword power in addition to other powers or instead of one of the 3 powers he rolls for.
Bottom line is if hes 175 ish, he will be amazing.
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Post by: Kangodo
Dante also used to have Hit and Run
But I agree, Dante looks freaking sweet.
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Post by: Colpicklejar
Any word on how Corbulo's doin'?
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Post by: Paradigm
WS boost and FNP like Priests, but in a 6" bubble. Looks like he lost his reroll and 2+ FNP.
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Post by: Valhallan42nd
I'd love to see Seth and Dante's pages.
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Post by: Mara
Well, I must say that this new codex has been full of surprises for me - and no doubt for all of BA players - and I've already been through the stages of disbelief, anger, despair, reluctant acceptance and moving on with this update as the information has been rolling in.
The cut on troops section and overall moving of units around the FOC kind of disheartens me like many others (no more dedicated LRs, wonder what I'm going to do with all those five I own... ). But this new codex will definitely blow some fresh air to the way I play my noble Sons of Sanguinius. I won't be able to roll out my mechanised nor jump pack army like I used to, but the drop in points and the rest of the changes will more than make up for what was lost. I really dig the new psychic discipline and relics, and the BA specific FOC is a blast (to the past)!  I really missed the good old FC. In the end, I am more than happy to have this update, more so when the rest of the stuff comes in.
But one question has arisen to mind while browsing this thread, and seeing the fresh out LOW chapter masters... Does Gabriel Seth still have his S8 AP-, Rending chainsword of massacre? 
With those new rules he received, he would be awfully fun to run with some squad juiced with a chaplain. Gotta get those  !
As a side note I can already hear the cheering of the croud in my local gaming group when I announce the end of the age of blendernoughts and the demon prince Mephiston that caused them so much desperation. No more mulching two thirds of the opposing tyranid army by yourself Mr. Lord of Death.
26336
Post by: Motograter
It sounds good over all though I am sick to death of hearing how good dante is now. Not everyone wants to take dante
84004
Post by: Jinx Magiga
Motograter wrote:It sounds good over all though I am sick to death of hearing how good dante is now. Not everyone wants to take dante
48188
Post by: endlesswaltz123
Dante could be horrendous if he gains the right blessings then on top... Invisibility, iron arm, the sanguine blessing that boosts I & A.
Absolute slayer.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, warp speed as well.
73959
Post by: niv-mizzet
endlesswaltz123 wrote:Dante could be horrendous if he gains the right blessings then on top... Invisibility, iron arm, the sanguine blessing that boosts I & A.
Absolute slayer.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, warp speed as well.
Erm...Dante is not a psyker. Someone could throw invis or quickening on him sure, but he can't iron arm or warp speed himself.
1478
Post by: warboss
What is the "servomadura" on the second entry? The rest looks like it should be for a chaplain but at least in english that sounds like something a techmarine would get.
48188
Post by: endlesswaltz123
I forget about iron arm and warp speed, never managed to get them to use them... Ignore that.
50012
Post by: Crimson
Motograter wrote:It sounds good over all though I am sick to death of hearing how good dante is now. Not everyone wants to take dante
Which reminds me: there probably isn't a generic Chapter Master option, right?
89217
Post by: JuniorRS13
Characters are looking solid, depending on points.
72001
Post by: troa
 Crimson wrote:Motograter wrote:It sounds good over all though I am sick to death of hearing how good dante is now. Not everyone wants to take dante
Which reminds me: there probably isn't a generic Chapter Master option, right?
I'd be shocked if there was. I'd expect captain only, as it was last time for BA.
60351
Post by: alanmckenzie
67097
Post by: angelofvengeance
First, Tycho may be an old model, but he's aged very well IMO.
From Twinner's thread:
No specific points values or images. It is against the rules, motyak
Baal no longer have scout :(
They can take 2 special weapons still, but they don't have RB as transports. TO get a RB for them you would have to use a Fast attack spot.
4056
Post by: Bla_Ze
Deadshot wrote:Vendablefall wrote: Bla_Ze wrote:Who cares about AM being tropps? I have played since 2E and i certainly dont...
What troubles me is what happens with the honour guard
totally agree, ive also played since 2nd andam not worried about the ASM slot swap, i feel the change taking the BA back to bemore like i have them pictured in my head, we can still take 7 squads of jumpers as others have stated..
can no one think of the honor guard!!!! my beautiful gold paint jobs are getting stripped and painted black :-(
Many have only played since 5th or 3rd, and so actually DO care. Plus, not many actually care about Honour Guard, because Command Squads are better with multiple special weapons, and Sanguinary are better jumpers and guards with their 2+ save and power weapons all around.
You say "we can still take 7 Jumper Squads"... C: SM can take 6. Not exactly a major leg up in that department, especially as one such unit is Honour Guard that are pretty poor points sinks in comparison to vehicles or other JP units.
Command squads are better? Holy Sanguinius... you do know how Honour/command squads work with C: SM right?
BA honour squads can take a mix of EVERYTHING, and im pretty sure the only thing special SM honour squads can take is a relic blade.. And lets not even talk about command squads, they can take no special weapons at all???
50012
Post by: Crimson
 troa wrote:
I'd be shocked if there was. I'd expect captain only, as it was last time for BA.
Well, it's kinda annoying for people who play a successor chapter (other than Flesh Tearers.) Though it is the same problem with Dark Angels.
22119
Post by: KillaCam
Dang. No close combat weapons on tycho besides digital weapons huh....... That blows.
67097
Post by: angelofvengeance
 KillaCam wrote:Dang. No close combat weapons on tycho besides digital weapons huh....... That blows.
I think Tycho's a bit more of a shooty character anyways. No biggy IMO.
48188
Post by: endlesswaltz123
Death company are 100pts starting for 5, can get a further 10 models, they can't get a sergeant like squad raphene.
They can't get special weapons though, which I was hoping.... JP relentless grav guns would of been nice.
8230
Post by: UltraPrime
Bla_Ze wrote: Deadshot wrote:Vendablefall wrote: Bla_Ze wrote:Who cares about AM being tropps? I have played since 2E and i certainly dont...
What troubles me is what happens with the honour guard
totally agree, ive also played since 2nd andam not worried about the ASM slot swap, i feel the change taking the BA back to bemore like i have them pictured in my head, we can still take 7 squads of jumpers as others have stated..
can no one think of the honor guard!!!! my beautiful gold paint jobs are getting stripped and painted black :-(
Many have only played since 5th or 3rd, and so actually DO care. Plus, not many actually care about Honour Guard, because Command Squads are better with multiple special weapons, and Sanguinary are better jumpers and guards with their 2+ save and power weapons all around.
You say "we can still take 7 Jumper Squads"... C: SM can take 6. Not exactly a major leg up in that department, especially as one such unit is Honour Guard that are pretty poor points sinks in comparison to vehicles or other JP units.
Command squads are better? Holy Sanguinius... you do know how Honour/command squads work with C: SM right?
BA honour squads can take a mix of EVERYTHING, and im pretty sure the only thing special SM honour squads can take is a relic blade.. And lets not even talk about command squads, they can take no special weapons at all???
Command squads can take special weapons.
73959
Post by: niv-mizzet
Tycho seems worthless. I don't see his leadership 10 thing anywhere, and he hits like 3 tactical marines in combat... The only thing he has going for him is one melta shot that will hit 97% of the time, then he's done. With how heavily contested the HQ's are with Astorath to go with the now-much-better jp death company, or PRIESTS to go with...anyone, or libby dreads using quickening on themselves, or Mephy...
Yeah...my Tycho model is now a combi-melta sternguard sergeant. He's never leaving the shelf otherwise.
4056
Post by: Bla_Ze
Im looking at their entry now, can you please tell me what i might be missing?
77630
Post by: Thud
Bla_Ze wrote:
Im looking at their entry now, can you please tell me what i might be missing?
The part of the FAQ that added the option to take special weapons.
81366
Post by: sand.zzz
I guess its safe to say there is no BA Codex supplement. A few formations in Exterminatus and thats it.
84179
Post by: BrokenRecord
sand.zzz wrote:I guess its safe to say there is no BA Codex supplement. A few formations in Exterminatus and thats it.
Why do you say that?
4056
Post by: Bla_Ze
 Thud wrote: Bla_Ze wrote:
Im looking at their entry now, can you please tell me what i might be missing?
The part of the FAQ that added the option to take special weapons.
Wonderful, perhaps we have a chance to get something Close to our beloved honour squad anyway.. time will tell.
58692
Post by: DarthOvious
 angelofvengeance wrote: KillaCam wrote:Dang. No close combat weapons on tycho besides digital weapons huh....... That blows.
I think Tycho's a bit more of a shooty character anyways. No biggy IMO.
He does get both rage and rampage so he gets a ton of attacks.
26336
Post by: Motograter
Death Company with or without jump packs hmmmmm.....
70069
Post by: Rippy
Looks like that guy who had 30 DC with two TH each is still all good!!! Wording supports his army! Best news today.
26336
Post by: Motograter
 Rippy wrote:Looks like that guy who had 30 DC with two TH each is still all good!!! Wording supports his army! Best news today.
Assuming he splits them into 2 squads as they are max size 15
20774
Post by: pretre
Someone aught to tell Twinner not to put codex pics in the gallery...
72001
Post by: troa
Crimson wrote: troa wrote:
I'd be shocked if there was. I'd expect captain only, as it was last time for BA.
Well, it kinda annoying for people who play a successor chapter (other than Flesh Tearers.) Though it is the same problem with Dark Angels.
Wow...I'm dumb. You are correct sir, my brain failed me there. That'll be interesting to see if there is one. Automatically Appended Next Post:  pretre wrote:Someone aught to tell Twinner not to put codex pics in the gallery...
The mods did.
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
Have codex in hand ... any questions? I also have the datacards ... not opened them up yet.
61618
Post by: Desubot
 OIIIIIIO wrote:Have codex in hand ... any questions? I also have the datacards ... not opened them up yet.
Scale from 1-10 how mad will the interwebs be??
also do scouts get LSS ?
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
 Desubot wrote: OIIIIIIO wrote:Have codex in hand ... any questions? I also have the datacards ... not opened them up yet.
Scale from 1-10 how mad will the interwebs be??
also do scouts get LSS ?
I was about a 9 on the pissy scale, after looking into the codex I am about a 2 ... I can still take things the way I want as far as JP army goes ... still bothers me that the RAS is gone from troops ... oh well.
Scouts ... not that I could find.
61618
Post by: Desubot
Well thats a bummer for a decent troop tax.
I guess regular scouts will be fine. (unless they are doing that thing where they chuck it into FA slot.
87813
Post by: SharkoutofWata
What terminators can take the banner upgrade? Is it JUST assault Termies?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And what does the banner do?
(Can't edit for some reason)
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
 SharkoutofWata wrote:What terminators can take the banner upgrade? Is it JUST assault Termies?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And what does the banner do?
(Can't edit for some reason)
Yes on the Assault ... you smoke either a LC or a Storm Shield ... have to trade one in.
Re-roll failed morale and pinning test ... not worth it.
4056
Post by: Bla_Ze
In what form can we have honour guards?
84179
Post by: BrokenRecord
No Honour Guard, as that is what the Sanguinary Guard are. We can take a Company Command Squad though.
3687
Post by: Red__Thirst
First, Can Blood Angels Captains purchase Artificer Armor from the armory? Always bugged me with the last codex that Captains couldn't purchase Artificer Armor.
Second, What's the price difference between a regular Jump Pack, and the Chapter Relic Jump Pack for a Captain? (is it 5 points more? 10 points?)
What's the name of the Relic Power Sword that has AP:2?
Lastly, Would you mind helping me out with the total points on a Captain build I plan on running?
Captain armed with the following:
Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, Relic Death Mask, Relic Item that allows for second Strategic Warlord Trait, and the Relic AP:2 Power Sword.
I'm hoping he'll run around 170ish points for this gear, please let me know though, if you don't mind?
Thanks for the help OIIIIIIIO!
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
4056
Post by: Bla_Ze
BrokenRecord wrote:
No Honour Guard, as that is what the Sanguinary Guard are. We can take a Company Command Squad though.
Yeah.. i know we dont have the Honour guard.. thats why i wrote "in what form"
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
 Red__Thirst wrote:First, Can Blood Angels Captains purchase Artificer Armor from the armory? Always bugged me with the last codex that Captains couldn't purchase Artificer Armor.
Yes
Second, What's the price difference between a regular Jump Pack, and the Chapter Relic Jump Pack for a Captain? (is it 5 points more? 10 points?)
5
What's the name of the Relic Power Sword that has AP:2?
Valour's Edge
Lastly, Would you mind helping me out with the total points on a Captain build I plan on running?
Captain armed with the following:
Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, Relic Death Mask, Relic Item that allows for second Strategic Warlord Trait, and the Relic AP:2 Power Sword.
I'm hoping he'll run around 170ish points for this gear, please let me know though, if you don't mind?
3 melta bombs cheaper than your quote
Thanks for the help OIIIIIIIO!
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Automatically Appended Next Post: The more I look into this book the happier I am ... It actually looks like a lot of fun to play. I was all kinds of, not even Furious Charge, but Black Rage at the way I perceived the way they changed my codex. I am actually looking forward to playing a game with this book ... like not even joking. It really does look like fun so far as I have read.
32325
Post by: Deschenus Maximus
OIIIIIIO wrote:Have codex in hand ... any questions? I also have the datacards ... not opened them up yet.
Is it true that normal Preds and Vindies can't buy Fast?
How many meltabombs more is the BA Rhino and Razor compared to their SM equivalents?
Is the Stormraven Fast Attack or Heavy Support?
Also, how many meltabombs is the Baal Pred? Does it still have Scouts?
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
Deschenus Maximus wrote: OIIIIIIO wrote:Have codex in hand ... any questions? I also have the datacards ... not opened them up yet.
Is it true that normal Preds and Vindies can't buy Fast?
False ... all Rhino chassis can buy it for 2 MB
How many meltabombs more is the BA Rhino and Razor compared to their SM equivalents?
Not sure ... do not have SM Codex
Is the Stormraven Fast Attack or Heavy Support?
Heavy
Also, how many meltabombs is the Baal Pred? Does it still have Scouts?
Sticker price is 23 MB but you can really knock off 2 MB because it comes from the factory with a Super Charger installed.
57815
Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
Do assault troops still get a discount is they ditch their Jump packs for a Dedicated transport?
Is Sanguinor only 4++ now?
What is the profile of the Glaive Encarmine?
41035
Post by: Mulletdude
 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:Do assault troops still get a discount is they ditch their Jump packs for a Dedicated transport?
Is Sanguinor only 4++ now?
What is the profile of the Glaive Encarmine?
Assault mans get a free rhino or drop pod if they ditch their packs.
Yes, Sanguinor is only a 4++ now.
S: User, AP3, Master Crafted.
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:Do assault troops still get a discount is they ditch their Jump packs for a Dedicated transport?
Kinda ... they can take either a DP or a Rhino for free
Is Sanguinor only 4++ now?
He is
What is the profile of the Glaive Encarmine?
Power Swords or axes that are 2 handed and MC
18032
Post by: jspyd3rx
How many special weapons can assault marines and tacticals take per five man squad?
41245
Post by: tarnish
Am i the only one thinking that it´s a bit dull that they only get a new kit for termies, tacticals, this blood priest or whatever it´s called and the starterset?
Nothing really new and interesting there, just the same old in a new wrapping.
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
 jspyd3rx wrote:How many special weapons can assault marines and tacticals take per five man squad?
RAS can take 2, Tac squad can take either Heavy or Special, not both until you get the 10th guy
5462
Post by: adamsouza
 tarnish wrote:Am i the only one thinking that it´s a bit dull that they only get a new kit for termies, tacticals, this blood priest or whatever it´s called and the starterset?
Nothing really new and interesting there, just the same old in a new wrapping.
The longstanding rumor was GK treatment for codex... so new chapter specific Tacticals with new weapon options, new sanguinary priest sculpt, new chapter specific terminators, point reductions, and everything in the Deathstorm box set being better than the regular version in some way, is actually kind of nice
69146
Post by: timwrightii
Sanguinary Priests are HQ. Any way to keep them from taking up a slot?
Can Sanguinary Priests take relic Jump Pack? What about Terminator Armour?
How many MB are infernos pistols?
Can Sergeants take two pistols?
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
 timwrightii wrote:Sanguinary Priests are HQ. Any way to keep them from taking up a slot?
Not that I could see
Can Sanguinary Priests take relic Jump Pack? What about Terminator Armour?
Relic JP Yes, Termie Armour ... no
How many MB are infernos pistols?
3
Can Sergeants take two pistols?
They come with a bolt pistol and you can trade your bolter in on say a hand flamer that costs 2mb, then you can trade in your bolt pistol in as well
On a side note, a 5 man RAS can take 2 meltas ... bonus for us!!
69146
Post by: timwrightii
Thanks! I'm Over the loss of assault troops and getting genuinely excited!
32325
Post by: Deschenus Maximus
Refering back to my earlier questions, a SM Rhino is 7 meltabombs and a Razor w/ say Assault Cannon is 15 meltabombs. Do BA pay 2 meltabombs over that in each case?
Also, very important question: can Stormravens be made a Dedicated Transport?
41396
Post by: Kaughnor
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions. I've got a few. How many points is the tac squad heavy flamer? Does the 1 elite 2 troop detachment for +1 initative have objective secured for its troops. Is Seth fearless? And are vanguard vets pointed the same as SM. Thanks again.
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
Deschenus Maximus wrote:Refering back to my earlier questions, a SM Rhino is 7 meltabombs and a Razor w/ say Assault Cannon is 15 meltabombs. Do BA pay 2 meltabombs over that in each case?
Indeed, that is the case
Also, very important question: can Stormravens be made a Dedicated Transport?
No unit has the SR as a dedicated transport
81366
Post by: sand.zzz
Its almost thursday and theres no images/leaks. Theres nothing in the next WD about one either.
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
 Kaughnor wrote:Thanks for taking the time to answer questions. I've got a few. How many points is the tac squad heavy flamer?
Heavy Flamer is 2MB
Does the 1 elite 2 troop detachment for +1 initative have objective secured for its troops.
Negative
Is Seth fearless?
Indeed he is
And are vanguard vets pointed the same as SM.
Not sure ... VVS is 19 MB base cost then to put JP on them it is 3 Search Lights
Thanks again.
Interesting side note ... Drop pods are also a fast choice ... Like the SW dex
32325
Post by: Deschenus Maximus
OIIIIIIO wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote:Refering back to my earlier questions, a SM Rhino is 7 meltabombs and a Razor w/ say Assault Cannon is 15 meltabombs. Do BA pay 2 meltabombs over that in each case?
Indeed, that is the case
Also, very important question: can Stormravens be made a Dedicated Transport?
No unit has the SR as a dedicated transport
Oh wow that is bs. Let me get this straight: frikkin Space Wolves, who HATE flying, have DT Flyers for almost all their units, but goddamn Blood Angels, who feel like flying is pretty much communion with Sanguinius, don't. Wooooooooooooooooooooow. GG, GW.
89630
Post by: Arcanguel123
Carnage43 wrote: DarthOvious wrote: Carnage43 wrote:
What's all pretty self explanatory....anything specific you need?
Kind of wanted to know what The Sanguinor does now. I know the details that have been said about him but does he gain IC? Also does he keep his aura for +1A?
EDIT: From what I can see he doesn't get it which I think sucks pretty bad.
No IC from what I can tell, but still has the +1A aura.
Artificier Armor
Encarmine blade
Frag and krak grenades,
Death mask
Iron Halo (no more 3++)
Jump pack
Heroic mark? (Sergeant buff skill I assume?)
Eternal warrior
Furious charge
Fearless
Reroll hits and wounds in duels?
+1 Attack aura.
Astorahth
Artificer Armor
bolt pistol
frag, krak
rosario
axe, +1S, ap2, two handed, strike last, rending/ Instand dead...
80358
Post by: Fireraven
Hell ya my "Honor Guard " becomes my command squad and I lose noda.
66727
Post by: OIIIIIIO
Fireraven wrote:Hell ya my "Honor Guard " becomes my command squad and I lose noda.
And if you want you can take that "Honour Guard" 4 times over in one list. You do not need a Headquarter unit to open them up to take.
54581
Post by: Kavish
Thanks for answering questions.
Does Dante have furious charge like everyone else?
What about Mephiston?
What is Lemartes like now?
83653
Post by: Mavnas
OIIIIIIO wrote:Fireraven wrote:Hell ya my "Honor Guard " becomes my command squad and I lose noda.
And if you want you can take that "Honour Guard" 4 times over in one list. You do not need a Headquarter unit to open them up to take.
Wait, what?
30143
Post by: Carnage43
Mavnas wrote: OIIIIIIO wrote:Fireraven wrote:Hell ya my "Honor Guard " becomes my command squad and I lose noda.
And if you want you can take that "Honour Guard" 4 times over in one list. You do not need a Headquarter unit to open them up to take.
Wait, what?
BA have Sanguinary guard instead of vanilla's honor guard. You can take 4 Sang guard squads
Command squad is similar to vanilla command squads, I hear they take a slot now though...elite?
90752
Post by: Warhams-77
There is a detachment in the new codex that allows 4 Elite
51937
Post by: shock_at
Carnage43 wrote:Mavnas wrote: OIIIIIIO wrote:Fireraven wrote:Hell ya my "Honor Guard " becomes my command squad and I lose noda.
And if you want you can take that "Honour Guard" 4 times over in one list. You do not need a Headquarter unit to open them up to take.
Wait, what?
BA have Sanguinary guard instead of vanilla's honor guard. You can take 4 Sang guard squads
Command squad is similar to vanilla command squads, I hear they take a slot now though...elite?
He probably meant the new command squad as being the old honour guard. If the BA command squad is the same to SM command squad, then it sucks due to SM command squads not having access to special weapons and no jump packs.
91680
Post by: Mchaagen
 shock_at wrote:
He probably meant the new command squad as being the old honour guard. If the BA command squad is the same to SM command squad, then it sucks due to SM command squads not having access to special weapons and no jump packs.
Special weapons were added to command squads in the FAQ.
74772
Post by: the shrouded lord
I think oiiiiio deserves thanks for his service.
70859
Post by: pantheralegionnaire
For sure! Thanks for taking the time to answer questions!
I can't wait to get my own Codex!
78159
Post by: PlaguelordHobbyServices
Deschenus Maximus wrote: OIIIIIIO wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote:Refering back to my earlier questions, a SM Rhino is 7 meltabombs and a Razor w/ say Assault Cannon is 15 meltabombs. Do BA pay 2 meltabombs over that in each case?
Indeed, that is the case
Also, very important question: can Stormravens be made a Dedicated Transport?
No unit has the SR as a dedicated transport
Oh wow that is bs. Let me get this straight: frikkin Space Wolves, who HATE flying, have DT Flyers for almost all their units, but goddamn Blood Angels, who feel like flying is pretty much communion with Sanguinius, don't. Wooooooooooooooooooooow. GG, GW.
Quoted for Truth...
Once again, GW trumps Space Wolves flavor in order to make them uber-powerful...
The Stormraven started as a BA unique vehicle, it should've been a dedicated transport for BA units... This bites worse than RAS being moved out of troops..
68780
Post by: diepotato47
How many melta bombs is Tycho? And does he have a set Warlord Trait?
58692
Post by: DarthOvious
He has 2 different versions from what was posted earlier on.
Death Company Version - About 29MB, his warlord trait is the one that gives rampage (D3 extra attacks if the enemy outnumbers you).
Normal Version - About - About 26MB and his trait is the same as above.
68780
Post by: diepotato47
Awesome, thank you
91701
Post by: Euchre_King
Can sanguinary priests take a storm shield for 2MB?
53744
Post by: rollawaythestone
What is with these points values in Melta Bombs!? Skaven-slave units is the only acceptable currency!
5018
Post by: Souleater
Can vanilla Captains and Commanders now take Artificer Armour? Seemed odd the couldn't.
80586
Post by: Zewrath
 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote: OIIIIIIO wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote:Refering back to my earlier questions, a SM Rhino is 7 meltabombs and a Razor w/ say Assault Cannon is 15 meltabombs. Do BA pay 2 meltabombs over that in each case?
Indeed, that is the case
Also, very important question: can Stormravens be made a Dedicated Transport?
No unit has the SR as a dedicated transport
Oh wow that is bs. Let me get this straight: frikkin Space Wolves, who HATE flying, have DT Flyers for almost all their units, but goddamn Blood Angels, who feel like flying is pretty much communion with Sanguinius, don't. Wooooooooooooooooooooow. GG, GW.
Quoted for Truth...
Once again, GW trumps Space Wolves flavor in order to make them uber-powerful...
The Stormraven started as a BA unique vehicle, it should've been a dedicated transport for BA units... This bites worse than RAS being moved out of troops..
Except what you're quoting isn't true. Space Wolves distrusts teleporting, they don't hate flying what so ever.
28259
Post by: Ugly Green Trog
Zewrath wrote: PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote: OIIIIIIO wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote:Refering back to my earlier questions, a SM Rhino is 7 meltabombs and a Razor w/ say Assault Cannon is 15 meltabombs. Do BA pay 2 meltabombs over that in each case?
Indeed, that is the case
Also, very important question: can Stormravens be made a Dedicated Transport?
No unit has the SR as a dedicated transport
Oh wow that is bs. Let me get this straight: frikkin Space Wolves, who HATE flying, have DT Flyers for almost all their units, but goddamn Blood Angels, who feel like flying is pretty much communion with Sanguinius, don't. Wooooooooooooooooooooow. GG, GW.
Quoted for Truth...
Once again, GW trumps Space Wolves flavor in order to make them uber-powerful...
The Stormraven started as a BA unique vehicle, it should've been a dedicated transport for BA units... This bites worse than RAS being moved out of troops..
Except what you're quoting isn't true. Space Wolves distrusts teleporting, they don't hate flying what so ever.
You can't deny it makes less sense for wolves to have flying DT than BA though.
39712
Post by: Neronoxx
 Ugly Green Trog wrote: Zewrath wrote: PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote: OIIIIIIO wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote:Refering back to my earlier questions, a SM Rhino is 7 meltabombs and a Razor w/ say Assault Cannon is 15 meltabombs. Do BA pay 2 meltabombs over that in each case?
Indeed, that is the case
Also, very important question: can Stormravens be made a Dedicated Transport?
No unit has the SR as a dedicated transport
Oh wow that is bs. Let me get this straight: frikkin Space Wolves, who HATE flying, have DT Flyers for almost all their units, but goddamn Blood Angels, who feel like flying is pretty much communion with Sanguinius, don't. Wooooooooooooooooooooow. GG, GW.
Quoted for Truth...
Once again, GW trumps Space Wolves flavor in order to make them uber-powerful...
The Stormraven started as a BA unique vehicle, it should've been a dedicated transport for BA units... This bites worse than RAS being moved out of troops..
Except what you're quoting isn't true. Space Wolves distrusts teleporting, they don't hate flying what so ever.
You can't deny it makes less sense for wolves to have flying DT than BA though.
Dedicated transport status is based on willingness to use the transport and its availability. Wolves would DEFINITELY be more willing to use a rare and possibly irreplacable vehicle for unit-ferrying. Besides, that matches the Space Marine codex's storm raven. They use it primarily as a gunship and secondly a transport.
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Post by: Destrado
Zewrath wrote:
Except what you're quoting isn't true. Space Wolves distrusts teleporting, they don't hate flying what so ever.
Actually I think Wolves prefer to fight with "both feet planted on the ground, as Russ intended". That's why Skyclaws were looked sideways by their peers.
The bit about teleporting actually started in 3rd if I'm not mistaken (their Terminators could not deepstrike), now it's more permissive but that fluff tidbit has been kept. I think it's actually in line with their character.
Also to answer someone, servoarmadura can be Servo Armour, but I'm maybe more inclined to say it's Bionics.
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Post by: th3maninblak
rollawaythestone wrote:What is with these points values in Melta Bombs!? Skaven-slave units is the only acceptable currency!
Skaven slaves work better in fantasy where things occasionally have odd point costs. Particularly characters when all their wargear is added in.
Melta bombs are something every 40k player knows the point value of, and give us a good clean idea of point values.
Personally i prefer thunderfire cannons. Like the old mephiston was 2.5 thunderfire cannons.
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Post by: Deschenus Maximus
Neronoxx wrote:
Dedicated transport status is based on willingness to use the transport and its availability. Wolves would DEFINITELY be more willing to use a rare and possibly irreplacable vehicle for unit-ferrying. Besides, that matches the Space Marine codex's storm raven. They use it primarily as a gunship and secondly a transport.
Ahem... Blood Angels would Deep Strike their Land Raiders straight into battle using T-hawk transporters - an incredibly dangerous (if not suicidal) manoeuvre. So I don't think your argument is valid.
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Post by: valkyriePROfail
 warboss wrote:What is the "servomadura" on the second entry? The rest looks like it should be for a chaplain but at least in english that sounds like something a techmarine would get.
Servoarmadura is power armor
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Post by: adamsouza
Deschenus Maximus wrote:
Ahem... Blood Angels would Deep Strike their Land Raiders straight into battle using T-hawk transporters - an incredibly dangerous (if not suicidal) manoeuvre. So I don't think your argument is valid.
Speaking of which, can Blood Angels still deep strike their Landraiders ?
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 adamsouza wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote:
Ahem... Blood Angels would Deep Strike their Land Raiders straight into battle using T-hawk transporters - an incredibly dangerous (if not suicidal) manoeuvre. So I don't think your argument is valid.
Speaking of which, can Blood Angels still deep strike their Landraiders ?
Nope. Sucks too because that was a fluffy and awesome thing that they used to do.
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Post by: Lowb
 casvalremdeikun wrote: adamsouza wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote:
Ahem... Blood Angels would Deep Strike their Land Raiders straight into battle using T-hawk transporters - an incredibly dangerous (if not suicidal) manoeuvre. So I don't think your argument is valid.
Speaking of which, can Blood Angels still deep strike their Landraiders ?
Nope. Sucks too because that was a fluffy and awesome thing that they used to do.
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, was it really? Or was it just a Wardzinga?
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Post by: warboss
valkyriePROfail wrote: warboss wrote:What is the "servomadura" on the second entry? The rest looks like it should be for a chaplain but at least in english that sounds like something a techmarine would get.
Servoarmadura is power armor
Thanks for the clarification.
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Post by: Glorywarrior
Lowb wrote:
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, was it really? Or was it just a Wardzinga?
Yep. They got Dropped from ThunderEagles or whatever those were called...they scattered full amount though. That stank. This was true in 5th ed.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
Lowb wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: adamsouza wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote:
Ahem... Blood Angels would Deep Strike their Land Raiders straight into battle using T-hawk transporters - an incredibly dangerous (if not suicidal) manoeuvre. So I don't think your argument is valid.
Speaking of which, can Blood Angels still deep strike their Landraiders ?
Nope. Sucks too because that was a fluffy and awesome thing that they used to do.
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, was it really? Or was it just a Wardzinga?
I thought the ability to DS was awesome. I would never do it, but having it as an option was pretty cool.
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Post by: Jinx Magiga
casvalremdeikun wrote: adamsouza wrote:Deschenus Maximus wrote:
Ahem... Blood Angels would Deep Strike their Land Raiders straight into battle using T-hawk transporters - an incredibly dangerous (if not suicidal) manoeuvre. So I don't think your argument is valid.
Speaking of which, can Blood Angels still deep strike their Landraiders ?
Nope. Sucks too because that was a fluffy and awesome thing that they used to do.
except for the fact that the Blood Angels only had 3 Thunderhawk Transporters across their entire chapter
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Post by: gorgon
There's only one Mephiston, and yet there was no shortage of him on 40k battlefields.
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Post by: Olgerth Istaarn
As a collector who quit playing a long time ago, I look forward to all the shiney new bitz to play with. At least something positive out of all this.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 gorgon wrote:There's only one Mephiston, and yet there was no shortage of him on 40k battlefields.
Dude travels. A LOT. Asorath does too.
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Post by: plastictrees
Every Landraider dropping Thunderhawk has at least 4 emergency Mephistons equipped for rapid battlefield deployment.
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Post by: Kangodo
casvalremdeikun wrote:I thought the ability to DS was awesome. I would never do it, but having it as an option was pretty cool.
I would, especially with the IA4-SE upgrade for 20 points that removes the scatter.
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Post by: BrokenRecord
As ridiculous as the idea of DS Landraiders is, I've always loved the idea of giving no fracks and just shoving a tank full of angry spesss vampires out of the back of a plane.
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Post by: troa
 plastictrees wrote:Every Landraider dropping Thunderhawk has at least 4 emergency Mephistons equipped for rapid battlefield deployment.
Bahahaha. Exalted.
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Post by: Red Corsair
gorgon wrote:There's only one Mephiston, and yet there was no shortage of him on 40k battlefields.
Actually there was, you could only field one in a game. It was possible however to DS 4-5 land raider in a single game, even when their chapter only had 3 THT... Yea that is a pretty big difference.
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Post by: gorgon
plastictrees wrote:Every Landraider dropping Thunderhawk has at least 4 emergency Mephistons equipped for rapid battlefield deployment.
I always imagined the Mephistons to be mounted on and fired off the missile rails under the wings.
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Post by: Eldercaveman
I think since we now have a Tactics thread here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/626355.page
And a guy with the codex in hand answering all questions here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/626498.page
And with the codex only being two days away, this thread has served it's purpose. Thank you all, and good night
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Post by: endlesswaltz123
Red Corsair wrote: gorgon wrote:There's only one Mephiston, and yet there was no shortage of him on 40k battlefields.
Actually there was, you could only field one in a game. It was possible however to DS 4-5 land raider in a single game, even when their chapter only had 3 THT... Yea that is a pretty big difference.
It's alright man, I've seen 60 ASM from the second company on the table top before....
Too soon?
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Post by: Bull0
Well personally I've kept coming back (and sifting through the huge amount of really tedious complaining) in the hopes of seeing some more pics of the new Terminators and Librarian, but I guess at this point we should see them tomorrow, so...
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Post by: Kelly502
Blood Angel Dice... That's all I want for Christmas at this point, I missed the Dakka Dice due to Paypal being a pain in the arse, and I always miss limited dice runs...
It's been a really good thread, enjoy it, and I can't wait for the Codex to be at my front door! Still plugging away at my Terminators.
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Post by: Vendablefall
Noticed in the Blood angel codex thread they were talking about no mention of the Lamenters successor chapter at all in the codex, and they seem to be replaced by another chapter..
could this be an indication that a Lanenters Supplement is inbound?
in the past do they leave supplement chapters out of the parent books?
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Post by: Anpu42
I m still shaking my head over the whole "My Old Army Is Illegal" thing.
My old CAD is:
Captain with Jump-Pack
Honor Guard with Jump Pack
Sternguard
2x Assault Squads
3x Land Speeders
Stormraven.
Now it will be an Unbound List with the exact same Models:
Captain with Jump-Pack
Command Squad with Jump Pack [Used to be my Honor Guard]
Sternguard
2x Assault Squads
3x Land Speeders
Stormraven.
How is my List Illegal?
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Post by: warboss
 Anpu42 wrote:I m still shaking my head over the whole "My Old Army Is Illegal" thing.
My old CAD is:
Captain with Jump-Pack
Honor Guard with Jump Pack
Sternguard
2x Assault Squads
3x Land Speeders
Stormraven.
Now it will be an Unbound List with the exact same Models:
Captain with Jump-Pack
Command Squad with Jump Pack [Used to be my Honor Guard]
Sternguard
2x Assault Squads
3x Land Speeders
Stormraven.
How is my List Illegal?
I choose not to play against unbound lists and so do plenty of other gamers I know. Most tournies I see posted about here (both local and national) in the US don't allow unbound. GW themselves don't allow unbound in their warhammer world events. That is how your list is functionally illegal.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
I do not recall seeing this, a nice video previewing the new Priest and Tactical Squad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkn4Lrey3KE
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Post by: Kirasu
Anpu42 wrote:I m still shaking my head over the whole "My Old Army Is Illegal" thing.
My old CAD is:
Captain with Jump-Pack
Honor Guard with Jump Pack
Sternguard
2x Assault Squads
3x Land Speeders
Stormraven.
Now it will be an Unbound List with the exact same Models:
Captain with Jump-Pack
Command Squad with Jump Pack [Used to be my Honor Guard]
Sternguard
2x Assault Squads
3x Land Speeders
Stormraven.
How is my List Illegal?
Can't say I agree at all. Regulating your list to Unbound is basically saying "I don't plan to play 40k except against my best friend." Unbound is simply not a legitimate solution to the problems as it's barely accepted. You'll prob find more Planetstrike games than unbound :p
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Post by: SharkoutofWata
Weird double post...
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Post by: Deadshot
 Kirasu wrote: Anpu42 wrote:I m still shaking my head over the whole "My Old Army Is Illegal" thing.
My old CAD is:
Captain with Jump-Pack
Honor Guard with Jump Pack
Sternguard
2x Assault Squads
3x Land Speeders
Stormraven.
Now it will be an Unbound List with the exact same Models:
Captain with Jump-Pack
Command Squad with Jump Pack [Used to be my Honor Guard]
Sternguard
2x Assault Squads
3x Land Speeders
Stormraven.
How is my List Illegal?
Can't say I agree at all. Regulating your list to Unbound is basically saying "I don't plan to play 40k except against my best friend." Unbound is simply not a legitimate solution to the problems as it's barely accepted. You'll prob find more Planetstrike games than unbound :p
That's a player issue though, not a rules issue. The rules say Unbound is perfectly acceptable and legal. Players outlaw it. It's like in Pokémon games, some are banned because they are too powerful (usually some sort of Legendary or super-powerful rare one), but that's a metagame ruling, not a Nintendo official ruling. As far as GW is concerned, Unbound is a perfectly legitimate solution.
Also note, however, that the issue BA are having is not the same as the one Orks, Space Wolves, DE, Purifierwing or Draigowing had with their Codexes. The others had elites moving to troops via a character to make a themed army (a la Deathwing, Loganwing, Draigowing, Crowewing, Nipplewing, etc), with the option to not include that character and usae them as Elites as normal. BA have a troop unit moving permanently to Fast Attack. A better analogy would be Guardian Jetbikes (I think they are troops too?) becoming Fast Attack which makes Eldar Biker players have to buy footslogging troops to now play a CAD.
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Post by: MajorStoffer
To be quite frank, GW removing all force-org shifts is them saying "Play unbound" not "don't play your army."
The reason people don't like unbound as, were it accepted as the new default mode (As Jervis himself stated it was in his interview pre-7th), the already troublesome cheesemongers would become completely unmanageable because the game's balance, internal and external, is fundamentally broken.
Unbound as a concept isn't the problem, if anything, it helps soften the blow of the blandification of codexes and the continued refusal to go back to the customization of 4th edition codexes. If the codexes were actually balanced internall and externally even a little bit, rather than all over the damned place, and the core rules didn't strongly favour some kinds of armies over others, unbound would just be a choice for more themed armies at a slight disadvantage via losing objective secured and more control over what your warlord is good at (and yes, there's some continued implied dislike for random warlord traits in there).
Locally, I have no problem getting games with my unbound armies; I've always wanted to run a Marine 1st Company, so now that I can ditch the useless bloody tactical marines, I can take more overpriced sub-par Elite choices, and no one scoffs at playing me as 10 termies, sternguard, vanguard, honour guard and a land raider is, well, quite frankly bad against most even slightly competitive lists. I do, however, agree that given the limitatons of the game system, the onus is on the player to prove their unbound list isn't them just being a cheesy bastard, but it is similarly unfair to said player if they have clearly made a themed army, or the one they've always wanted to say "No, I won't play you" on the pure principle of Unbound. Books by their covers and all that.
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Post by: BlaxicanX
Deadshot wrote:That's a player issue though, not a rules issue. The rules say Unbound is perfectly acceptable and legal. Players outlaw it. It's like in Pokémon games, some are banned because they are too powerful (usually some sort of Legendary or super-powerful rare one), but that's a metagame ruling, not a Nintendo official ruling. As far as GW is concerned, Unbound is a perfectly legitimate solution. Also note, however, that the issue BA are having is not the same as the one Orks, Space Wolves, DE, Purifierwing or Draigowing had with their Codexes. The others had elites moving to troops via a character to make a themed army (a la Deathwing, Loganwing, Draigowing, Crowewing, Nipplewing, etc), with the option to not include that character and usae them as Elites as normal. BA have a troop unit moving permanently to Fast Attack. A better analogy would be Guardian Jetbikes (I think they are troops too?) becoming Fast Attack which makes Eldar Biker players have to buy footslogging troops to now play a CAD.
It's a rules issue because the reason behind Unbound being banned by many players is due to it being broken and dysfunctional. There is nothing sane about a situation like: "o hi, can I run an unbound list so that I can use all these assault marines I now can't use in a standard game?" "Sure. I'll use my Unbound Inquisitor list then. =-) "Well... fair is fair I guess. =)" *Unbound Inquisitor list" has 30 one-man psyker units in it for 300 points. 1200 points of daemons get summoned over the next three turns* It's a poorly implemented system with poorly implemented rules. It may work in friendly games between close-knit friends, but if you're bros4lyfe with the guy you're playing with, why did you need Unbound in the first place? A real friend would probably have always let you ignore the FoC if it was for the sake of you having fun with your minis. That's what friends do.
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Post by: master of asgard
Can someone explain to me how people are talking about taking Cassor the Damned Dreadnought as a troop choice without taking the rest of his formation from Deathstorm? I feel like I've missed something in the rules here.
Thanks!
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Post by: SharkoutofWata
Nowhere anywhere (that I know of) does it say that a unit that is part of a Formation has to be taken in that formation and nowhere else. Cypher and Tyrannic War Veterans are good examples. He is a troop choice like any other, and that Formation he is a part of is a Formation like any other.
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Post by: master of asgard
SharkoutofWata wrote:Nowhere anywhere (that I know of) does it say that a unit that is part of a Formation has to be taken in that formation and nowhere else. Cypher and Tyrannic War Veterans are good examples. He is a troop choice like any other, and that Formation he is a part of is a Formation like any other.
Cool thanks! So it's like all the units in Deathstorm are special characters (or a squad with a fixed load-out), which can be used all together to make a formation with certain benefits, or separately as you would any other special character? I'm a bit inexperienced with 7th ed and all this formation malarkey as you can see.
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Post by: Thud
 BlaxicanX wrote:It's a poorly implemented system with poorly implemented rules. It may work in friendly games between close-knit friends, but if you're bros4lyfe with the guy you're playing with, why did you need Unbound in the first place? A real friend would probably have always let you ignore the FoC if it was for the sake of you having fun with your minis. That's what friends do.
Yeah, I never understood this either. For people supposedly heavily into the fluff and the narrative they must have exceptionally poor creativity. I'm a competitive tournament player, and I played against "unbound" lists in 5th edition in friendly games. My opponent had a CSM army with an IG platoon, some Plague Bearers and a Great Unclean One. I even managed to break out a fluffy list too.  For two people who know each other, and know what the other person is looking for in a game of 40k, army composition is not, has never been, and never will be, an issue. For pick-up games, tournaments and games between people who approach the game differently, unbound is a farce.
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Post by: Deadshot
BlaxicanX wrote: Deadshot wrote:That's a player issue though, not a rules issue. The rules say Unbound is perfectly acceptable and legal. Players outlaw it. It's like in Pokémon games, some are banned because they are too powerful (usually some sort of Legendary or super-powerful rare one), but that's a metagame ruling, not a Nintendo official ruling. As far as GW is concerned, Unbound is a perfectly legitimate solution.
Also note, however, that the issue BA are having is not the same as the one Orks, Space Wolves, DE, Purifierwing or Draigowing had with their Codexes. The others had elites moving to troops via a character to make a themed army (a la Deathwing, Loganwing, Draigowing, Crowewing, Nipplewing, etc), with the option to not include that character and usae them as Elites as normal. BA have a troop unit moving permanently to Fast Attack. A better analogy would be Guardian Jetbikes (I think they are troops too?) becoming Fast Attack which makes Eldar Biker players have to buy footslogging troops to now play a CAD.
It's a rules issue because the reason behind Unbound being banned by many players is due to it being broken and dysfunctional. There is nothing sane about a situation like:
"o hi, can I run an unbound list so that I can use all these assault marines I now can't use in a standard game?"
"Sure. I'll use my Unbound Inquisitor list then. =-)
"Well... fair is fair I guess. =)"
*Unbound Inquisitor list" has 30 one-man psyker units in it for 300 points. 1200 points of daemons get summoned over the next three turns*
It's a poorly implemented system with poorly implemented rules. It may work in friendly games between close-knit friends, but if you're bros4lyfe with the guy you're playing with, why did you need Unbound in the first place? A real friend would probably have always let you ignore the FoC if it was for the sake of you having fun with your minis. That's what friends do.
Again, that is not a rules issue, that's a player issue with people choosing to play the game in the beardiest, cheesiest list against someone's fluffy 8th Company force. It is a system designed for friendly Forging of Narratives that GW wants, except that the players insist on doing the min-max Riptide/Sternguard Drop Pod lists or whatever is the FotM right now.
On the opposite side of that coin, if I brought a fluffy Scout company army to a tournament that allowed unbound and expected to win, that's my failing, no one else. If someone were to go to a pro-Unbound tournament, they should be likewise bringing the beardiest list possible if they want to play competitively. That could make for even better games, such as a Wave Serpent brigade vs a Daemon Factory and see what happens.
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Post by: Anpu42
So what everyone is saying that if the list I play tonight is perfectly Legal, because "The Codex Has Officially Not Come Out Yet" and no one will have an issue with it.
Yet, tomorrow when the "New Codex Comes Out" The same exact List is Illegal because it is now Unbound.
Then Yes you have an issue with the other Players if you can't go "But you know this List and you know it is not over-Powered at all."
This is the part I find silly.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
I guess everyone running an assault squad focused army better pray that the dataslate coming out tomorrow somehow aids them in running their lists. Not counting on it, but nevertheless, one can hope.
Nevermind, it is just the data cards from Deathstorm. Lame. Lame. Lame.
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Post by: warboss
Deadshot wrote:
That's a player issue though, not a rules issue. The rules say Unbound is perfectly acceptable and legal. Players outlaw it. It's like in Pokémon games, some are banned because they are too powerful (usually some sort of Legendary or super-powerful rare one), but that's a metagame ruling, not a Nintendo official ruling. As far as GW is concerned, Unbound is a perfectly legitimate solution.
I'll put this in larger letters as you missed it a few posts up.
GW THEMSELVES DOESN'T ALLOW UNBOUND IN THE FEW EVENTS THAT THEY STILL RUN.
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2014/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-rules-and-our-events-in-2014/
It is not a "player" issue. The company itself doesn't want to deal with the ramifications of the blatant cash grab unbound rule in the events that they run. Saying "just play unbound" is the army building answer equivalent of posting "just d6 it" in every YMDC rules question thread. It is pointless and not helpful in any degree. Unbound isn't a solution to anything nor is it a yardstick to measure legality or anthing by other than the level of GW's greed and ignorance.
50012
Post by: Crimson
master of asgard wrote:
Cool thanks! So it's like all the units in Deathstorm are special characters (or a squad with a fixed load-out), which can be used all together to make a formation with certain benefits, or separately as you would any other special character? I'm a bit inexperienced with 7th ed and all this formation malarkey as you can see.
Exactly.
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Post by: Deadshot
warboss wrote: Deadshot wrote:
That's a player issue though, not a rules issue. The rules say Unbound is perfectly acceptable and legal. Players outlaw it. It's like in Pokémon games, some are banned because they are too powerful (usually some sort of Legendary or super-powerful rare one), but that's a metagame ruling, not a Nintendo official ruling. As far as GW is concerned, Unbound is a perfectly legitimate solution.
I'll put this in larger letters as you missed it a few posts up.
GW THEMSELVES DOESN'T ALLOW UNBOUND IN THE FEW EVENTS THAT THEY STILL RUN.
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2014/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-rules-and-our-events-in-2014/
It is not a "player" issue. The company itself doesn't want to deal with the ramifications of the blatant cash grab unbound rule in the events that they run. Saying "just play unbound" is the army building answer equivalent of posting "just d6 it" in every YMDC rules question thread. It is pointless and not helpful in any degree. Unbound isn't a solution to anything nor is it a yardstick to measure legality or anthing by other than the level of GW's greed and ignorance.
No, GW want business. IF they allowed Unbounded, no one would turn up, because of the perception of Unbound as cheesy. So they make an appeasement that gets people through the doors, take some deposits for events, pushes them towards the shops and keeps pockets full (not ours). Its the ramification of the playerbase denouncing it that they don't use it, because
a) Better success for events
b) No drama as people ragequit over having to face Daemon Factory or whatever.
c) allows they to control the Spirit of the Game by saying "This is how it should be played here."
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Post by: Sidstyler
Kinda makes one wonder why the hell they even made Unbound in the first place then, if they know people hate it and they themselves don't even think it fits their definition of "the Spirit of the Game"...
Well I guess they probably didn't know we were going to hate it beforehand, though there isn't really any excuse for that. A cursory glance at Dakka or any random forum would probably tell them that throwing the rules out the window would probably piss people off.
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Post by: Walnuts
Serious question for everyone who is upset about how their 100% assault marine army is no longer 'viable.'
I'm sitting here like, shoot, drop two scout sniper squads for 120 points, and then you can take 30 assault marines and 4 elite choices worth of vangaurds / sang guards / death company, and then throw in a command squad if you have a spare HQ.
That's a lot of jump packs, and the troop tax of 120 pts seems pretty negligible considering they can hold two points on your side of the board.
So that's my question, in 6th and 7th edition up until now, did you use literally NO units to hold points on your side of the board, and if so, how the hell did you win?
Especially in 6th, where you would have needed a shooty troop choice to hold points on your side of the board, and sniper scouts were just slightly bad and tacticals were terrible.
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Post by: Glorywarrior
I think the main reason most people are upset is because the Assault Marines had objective secured up until now.
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Post by: Carnage43
 Walnuts wrote:Serious question for everyone who is upset about how their 100% assault marine army is no longer 'viable.'
I'm sitting here like, shoot, drop two scout sniper squads for 120 points, and then you can take 30 assault marines and 4 elite choices worth of vangaurds / sang guards / death company, and then throw in a command squad if you have a spare HQ.
That's a lot of jump packs, and the troop tax of 120 pts seems pretty negligible considering they can hold two points on your side of the board.
So that's my question, in 6th and 7th edition up until now, did you use literally NO units to hold points on your side of the board, and if so, how the hell did you win?
Especially in 6th, where you would have needed a shooty troop choice to hold points on your side of the board, and sniper scouts were just slightly bad and tacticals were terrible.
It's the complete lack of choice that pisses people off.
You wanna run your 3 ASM squads? Well now you HAVE to run 2 other squads. All the bikes/speeders you used to support your ASM before? Now you CANNOT use them. Also, ASM wasn't even a spectacular army to begin with, and now you have to have a tax to get it back to a shadow of it's former glory....a completely unnecessary nerf.
As for "Well, 2 scout squads holding objectives...blah blah". There's cheaper/better things to hold objectives. Allies, good ranged units, speedy units that can jump from point to point (like the bikes we can't fit now). Paying a tax for an already mediocre army is just another nail in the coffin to it. Good armies don't have taxes, or are cheap/good enough it doesn't really matter. The fact it's called a tax at all should be some manner of signal people don't want this stuff.
GW has killed a whole army archetype, the Jump pack assault type. Nightlord jumper armies, BA ASM heavy lists, 8th company vanilla jumper lists...etc, could all use the BA codex to make a full jumper list, but they are all dead now. Not to mention the AV13 wall getting gutted without FA Baals, and the dread spam list going from 7 to 5 dreads at most.
It's like they systematically set out to break every single stereotypical Blood Angel list from the last 4 years. At this point, I'm not even sure why the BA codex exists, as you could roll it into the vanilla book and we might just be better off.
 Glorywarrior wrote:I think the main reason most people are upset is because the Assault Marines had objective secured up until now.
Objective secured is almost 100% irrelevant for ASM in my opinion. This is the least significant portion of loss they've suffered from moving from the troop slot.
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Post by: Mr Morden
GW don't care............they want you to buy new stuff not just keep using your old stuff. Making AM FA rather than Troops may help this - so for them it was QED.
And whilst its not exactly the same loosing the ability say to make Wracks Troops through a generic (and previously pretty essential) HQ character it does exactly the same in practice - removes choice of how you play your army, same with Nobs and Orks.
Saying that the Blood Angels is now just C: SM is a bit of exaggeration, given that they still have all the special units that made them different from Codex compliant Chapters units (Death Company, Librarian Dreadnoguhts, Special Assault Dreadnought (that used to be just generic), how many Special Characters?),
How many other First Founding Chapters don't get their own Codex - Raven Guard, Salamanders, White Scars and who have never had the chance to have all that BA have been given.
Ask Black Templars who has the better deal - many were very upset about being rolled up in the main Codex - I wasn't but hey. Remember even the Wardex specifically stated that the Blood Angels had no more Assault marines than any other Codex Chapter. My Sisters army has jut one Troops choice and not even a printed codex - awesome.
Sooo nothing in the new Codex is any good? Looks like quite a few good things to me? We were Never (as lots of people said early in the thread) going to get a Codex like Eldar - and shouldn't either - the Eldar Codex (or a couple ofunits toned down) needs fixing - But GW can't be bothered
GW has killed a whole army archetype, the Jump pack assault type. Nightlord jumper armies, BA ASM heavy lists, 8th company vanilla jumper lists...etc, could all use the BA codex to make a full jumper list, but they are all dead now. Not to mention the AV13 wall getting gutted without FA Baals, and the dread spam list going from 7 to 5 dreads at most.
Really? So you have to run 2 squads of five men to have the same army - having had a army wide point drop for the units you actually want to play? 5 Dreadnoughts is not spamming?
And we have not even got the new formations yet that will likely allow Jump marine armies - sadly they will be in other books or DLC - but that's how GW works now and should have been expected given the previous codex releases. They don't care[i] if it invalidates old armies because they want to sell you new ones - its Not a good thing but it is reality in 40k now.
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Post by: Hulksmash
We went from 6 to 6 on Dreads using the old BA CAD (3 HS and 3 Elite) and the new BA formation (2 HQ and 4 Elite). just to throw that out there...
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Post by: Anpu42
 Sidstyler wrote:Kinda makes one wonder why the hell they even made Unbound in the first place then, if they know people hate it and they themselves don't even think it fits their definition of "the Spirit of the Game"...
Well I guess they probably didn't know we were going to hate it beforehand, though there isn't really any excuse for that. A cursory glance at Dakka or any random forum would probably tell them that throwing the rules out the window would probably piss people off.
Because they wanted People to be able to play Anything They Wanted.
This does Multiple things:
1] Stop People from Complaining about the "Restrictions Of The FOC" that people have whined about for Years now. [I do find it funny the People who hate the "Troop Tax" seem to be the ones who hate Unbound the Most]
2] Allow People to just buy whatever models they have/want. ["Well I only Play Marines, but that new Ork Staompa Looks to Cool to not Pick up and I can Use it too with my Unbound List."]
3] Push Impulse Buys. [See #2]
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Post by: Hulksmash
Unbound gave groups a ruleset that allowed them to just play with whatever. I doubt it was ever meant for pick-up/tournament games. That said I like the idea of unbound in friendly games. A buddy and I have been talking about having a silly set-to and I might have unbound make an appearance.
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Post by: adamsouza
It's important to remember that unbound and WAAC are not the same thing. The internet just rages against unbound like they are the impossible to have one without the other.
Bikes as troops, ASM as troops, Mega Armored boyz as troops, etc... didn't break 6th edition when they were FOC. They don't break 7th edition by being played unbound.
For tournaments though, those things might not be the best 'balanced' things.
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Post by: Red Corsair
Walnuts wrote:Serious question for everyone who is upset about how their 100% assault marine army is no longer 'viable.'
I'm sitting here like, shoot, drop two scout sniper squads for 120 points, and then you can take 30 assault marines and 4 elite choices worth of vangaurds / sang guards / death company, and then throw in a command squad if you have a spare HQ.
That's a lot of jump packs, and the troop tax of 120 pts seems pretty negligible considering they can hold two points on your side of the board.
So that's my question, in 6th and 7th edition up until now, did you use literally NO units to hold points on your side of the board, and if so, how the hell did you win?
Especially in 6th, where you would have needed a shooty troop choice to hold points on your side of the board, and sniper scouts were just slightly bad and tacticals were terrible.
A lot of the pet peaves in here I suspect are not actually reflective of peoples armies. Literally every BA army I have seen has taken at least one squad of sniper scouts since 5th. With the point drop you get that second one for gratis really. People always want more while expecting to lose nothing. That book desperately needed some clean up and as you pointed out, its not difficult in the slightest to run as many jump troops as before. They just won't be Obsec, but give me a break, why are people so attached to assault squads if they are incapable of clearing objectives? Obsec doesn't really matter much in this instance.... Plus, DEATH COMPANY SCORES! lol Automatically Appended Next Post:  Hulksmash wrote:Unbound gave groups a ruleset that allowed them to just play with whatever. I doubt it was ever meant for pick-up/tournament games. That said I like the idea of unbound in friendly games. A buddy and I have been talking about having a silly set-to and I might have unbound make an appearance.
They have allowed unbound at the last few local RTT here in Maine and I got the opportunity to pit my TAC rounded marines against 3 Baneblade variants! It was a blast! I blew him out on objectives and won handily. Unbound is always mentioned as abusive by people who are full of crap and haven't ACTUALLY played with it. Most gamers are nice fellas and won't take 15 annihilation barges, not to mention I don't know any moron that would buy that many in reality 
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Post by: Mavnas
Honestly I5 S5 scouts with CCW and a power sword on the Sgt will knock over enemy MEQ in CC if you can get the charge off. They would have been amazing if they'd had the mobility of the LSS, but...
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Post by: Fayric
Well, I think unbound is a try to tie the game closer to the stories and mythology of 40k.
However fun we can have at the "cinematic" approach, its a really nice element to a game that is rapidly evolving in to a wider cultural concept of epic stories and evocative art.
Anyway, I see unbound as one of many specific list you can build, much as you could have a list for city fight or apocalypse, or a mechanized or foot list, all in the same army.
I really dont get people that just play one list over and over. Unbound is a nice option to try out once in a while I bet, It dont need to be an all or nothing approach.
Its not like battle forged armies are automatically balanced and fair anyway.
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Post by: Carnage43
Hulksmash wrote:We went from 6 to 6 on Dreads using the old BA CAD (3 HS and 3 Elite) and the new BA formation (2 HQ and 4 Elite). just to throw that out there...
7 in the old codex. 3 elite, 3 heavy and 1 DC dread in troops. You are correct about the new detachment though, 6 is still possible. Still, furioso dreads worked best in an AV13 spam list with Baals and pred....which is dead.
That said, I still haven't seen the point cost on the new libby dread, but I can't imagine GW has made them a sane amount of points.
Mr Morden wrote:GW don't care............they want you to buy new stuff not just keep using your old stuff. Making AM FA rather than Troops may help this - so for them it was QED.
I'd love to buy NEW stuff....all of their " new" stuff for the BA release is just old units with BA bling on them though. No Storm Talon/Raven, Centurions, stalker/hunter...like when Vanilla marines got new units, just old units with new iconography. We got tactical terminators and tactical marines. Not saying they are bad kits, or that new players won't love them, but I have something like 20 tactical terminators and 60+ tactical marines I don't use already. Nothing new for me.
Saying that the Blood Angels is now just C:SM is a bit of exaggeration, given that they still have all the special units that made them different from Codex compliant Chapters units (Death Company, Librarian Dreadnoguhts, Special Assault Dreadnought (that used to be just generic), how many Special Characters?),
How many other First Founding Chapters don't get their own Codex - Raven Guard, Salamanders, White Scars and who have never had the chance to have all that BA have been given.
I'll concede that the Blood Angels are better off than the non-codex first founding chapters in terms of kits. As for quality of rules, that's debatable especially with how good white scars and Iron Hands are ATM.
As for folding them into vanilla. It really wouldn't take much anymore.
Death company are vanguard vets + FnP + rage for X points.
Libby dreads really should be available to everyone anyways.
The special assault dreads are glorified Ironclads.
ASM special weapons, but quantity and types, should be available to vanilla marines.
Baal pred is a weapon swapped predator
Blood angels vehicle upgrade for fast = 10 points
3 special characters, Dante, Mephiston, Corbulo. Throw the rest in dataslates, as Asataroth/Tycho would work better with a DC formation, Sanguinor in a DoA style army...or something.
Done. 3 pages for characters and 1 for special rules. Would take as much room as the Black Templar take now.
Sooo nothing in the new Codex is any good? Looks like quite a few good things to me? We were Never (as lots of people said early in the thread) going to get a Codex like Eldar - and shouldn't either - the Eldar Codex (or a couple ofunits toned down) needs fixing - But GW can't be bothered
I didn't say there was nothing good. Dante is awesome. Corbulo looks decent. DC are finally solid.....that's about it. Everything else is done better by someone else or is worse than it used to be. Where the GK codex was broken down into 1-2 lists overnight, I still haven't seen a half way decent BA list yet.
GW has killed a whole army archetype, the Jump pack assault type. Nightlord jumper armies, BA ASM heavy lists, 8th company vanilla jumper lists...etc, could all use the BA codex to make a full jumper list, but they are all dead now. Not to mention the AV13 wall getting gutted without FA Baals, and the dread spam list going from 7 to 5 dreads at most.
Really? So you have to run 2 squads of five men to have the same army - having had a army wide point drop for the units you actually want to play? 5 Dreadnoughts is not spamming?
My last BA list was something like;
Mephiston
2 Sang priests with jump packs
3 x 10 ASM, double special weapons
2x2 attack bikes with multimeltas
2 Vindicators
Storm Raven
It was fast, aggressive, and fun. Now Meph can't fly along with his JP buddies, can't get FnP across everyone, can't fit the attack bikes in, and need to spend points on scouts/tacticals that I don't want and don't fit the speed of the list. I wouldn't be SO pissed off if the scout could at least take Land Speeder storms...but they didn't even get that.
My vanilla marine list is 3-4 biker squads, an attack bike squad and 2 storm talons. If they don't allow troop bikers in the next vanilla codex, I will have exactly the same problem I'm having with BA. No troops and like 6 FA choices.
And we have not even got the new formations yet that will likely allow Jump marine armies - sadly they will be in other books or DLC - but that's how GW works now and should have been expected given the previous codex releases. They don't care[i] if it invalidates old armies because they want to sell you new ones - its Not a good thing but it is reality in 40k now.
<sigh> who knows what formations are on the horizon. ATM though, I'm done with the BA codex and back to my vanilla biker grav spam list.
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Post by: Bull0
Carnage43 wrote:
As for folding them into vanilla. It really wouldn't take much anymore.
Death company are vanguard vets + FnP + rage for X points.
Libby dreads really should be available to everyone anyways.
The special assault dreads are glorified Ironclads.
ASM special weapons, but quantity and types, should be available to vanilla marines.
Baal pred is a weapon swapped predator
Blood angels vehicle upgrade for fast = 10 points
3 special characters, Dante, Mephiston, Corbulo. Throw the rest in dataslates, as Asataroth/Tycho would work better with a DC formation, Sanguinor in a DoA style army...or something.
Done. 3 pages for characters and 1 for special rules.
This is hilarious, by the way. "Folding them into vanilla is easy, just give vanilla everything they've got and remove half the characters, add them back in as dataslates because everyone loves DLC". You also forgot Sanguinary Priests.
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Post by: Carnage43
 Bull0 wrote: Carnage43 wrote:
As for folding them into vanilla. It really wouldn't take much anymore.
Death company are vanguard vets + FnP + rage for X points.
Libby dreads really should be available to everyone anyways.
The special assault dreads are glorified Ironclads.
ASM special weapons, but quantity and types, should be available to vanilla marines.
Baal pred is a weapon swapped predator
Blood angels vehicle upgrade for fast = 10 points
3 special characters, Dante, Mephiston, Corbulo. Throw the rest in dataslates, as Asataroth/Tycho would work better with a DC formation, Sanguinor in a DoA style army...or something.
Done. 3 pages for characters and 1 for special rules.
This is hilarious, by the way. "Folding them into vanilla is easy, just give vanilla everything they've got and remove half the characters, add them back in as dataslates because everyone loves DLC". You also forgot Sanguinary Priests.
Have a chaplain upgraded with a narthecanium for X points, bang, sang priest. Trade out the chappy rules for it as well.
Sang guard = honor guard + jump packs and MC 2 handers for ~7 points.
DLC is garbage, but having 3 more special special characters than other chapters isn't enough to warrant a codex of their own when dataslate could easily cover that.
Having different side armor and +1WS on their melee dread isn't enough to warrant a codex of their own.
Having a different turret and sponsons on a predator isn't enough.
Having an upgraded vanguard squad isn't enough.
Having melta-guns in their assault squads isn't enough.
Write is just like they wrote the black templar tactics. "When you select the BA chapter tactics these new upgrades are available: Fast to rhino/razors/preds for 10 points, lightning claws on ironclads for X points, vanguard can become DC for X points and get rage and FnP"...etc. Of course they have to boil is down a bit more, but we are already like 75% of the way there with the 7th edition codex anyways and the loss of troop DC, DC dreads and ASM, no more FA Baals and sang priests becoming HQ.
If you are going to make Blood Angels a stand alone army, they need to be different enough to warrant having a book at all. If all your differences are a few gear differences and a handful of special character then it's not worth the effort IMO. I mean, look at BA today and compare it to BT pre-sixth edition space marines. Thin.....
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Post by: Kangodo
No, but all of that combined IS enough for a separate Codex.
So shut up now? This gak doesn't belong in a rumour thread about the Blood Angels getting a new codex.
In related news:
- 18 new datasheets for the Blood Angels 1st and 2nd Companies, Flesh Tearers, and the Necrons of the Mephrit Dynasty. That’s the equivalent of four Codex Supplements in one book!
Those new things are awesome, but it makes me wonder about a Supplement.
Aren't we getting one?
And I'm not really sure I want to spend 60 euro for 18 data-sheets, not even when my second army are Necrons.
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Post by: Melcavuk
Its not just datasheets, allegedly there are warlord traits and relics for the BA 1st Company, the Flesh Tearers and Necrons in the book. Plus the formations, plus the background, scenarios etc. though given that the BA 1st company rules are in this book it likely indicates no supplement in the immediate future.
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Post by: Wonderwolf
Not true. They just alternate between battle forged and unbound formats at different stages of the event.
From the very page you linked to.
The final game will follow the Unbound Rules set for army selection from page 117 of the rulebook with the following tweaks:
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Post by: Bull0
That Shield of Baal: Exterminatus looks awesome, I've pre-ordered. Anything with Seth on the cover gets my vote (he's on the cover of the softback). I'm vaguely excited about it, which is rare for me with GW these days.
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Post by: Azreal13
I find it curious that they have not only sculpted BA iconography onto the shoulder pad, but sculpted the pad onto the upper arm. Seems like two opportunities to allow for non- BA players who don't fancy taking a scalpel to their £18(!) model to purchase it have been missed.
Curiously short-sighted, even for GW.
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Post by: Desubot
WOH WOH WOHhh
Is that a plastic psychic hood without any BA icons?
edit: Bloody hell nvm i see the damn drop on the belt buckle :(
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Post by: Azreal13
Missed that.
Again, curious choices limiting the applications of the mini for those not wishing to convert. The buckle could just as easily have been an Aquila.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Christ, now I look at the painted version, there's iconography everywhere.
Totally baffled.
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Post by: warboss
Wonderwolf wrote:Not true. They just alternate between battle forged and unbound formats at different stages of the event. From the very page you linked to.
The final game will follow the Unbound Rules set for army selection from page 117 of the rulebook with the following tweaks:
I did see that but the single exception doesn't negate the general rule. For ONE event out of THREE, you can use unbound for a SINGLE day out of TWO. You'll have to excuse me if I consider them specifically banning unbound (despite it being the "default" game according to Jervis) in all but one event on one day as simply disallowing unbound. You are of course free to consider allowing it in a single event type only on one day out of two it is offered as "alternating" but I don't consider that to be an accurate assessment of their practical application of the unbound rules.
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Post by: Crimson
What I find really strange (and highly annoying) that on the terminators part of the torso is attached to the legs.
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Post by: ironicsilence
Walnuts wrote:Serious question for everyone who is upset about how their 100% assault marine army is no longer 'viable.'
I'm sitting here like, shoot, drop two scout sniper squads for 120 points, and then you can take 30 assault marines and 4 elite choices worth of vangaurds / sang guards / death company, and then throw in a command squad if you have a spare HQ.
That's a lot of jump packs, and the troop tax of 120 pts seems pretty negligible considering they can hold two points on your side of the board.
So that's my question, in 6th and 7th edition up until now, did you use literally NO units to hold points on your side of the board, and if so, how the hell did you win?
Especially in 6th, where you would have needed a shooty troop choice to hold points on your side of the board, and sniper scouts were just slightly bad and tacticals were terrible.
my 5th and 6th edition army was based around 5 man assault squads in razorbacks a s priest or 2 and lots of fast tanks, I did the av13/razorback spam. I won games by crushing my enemies, seeing them driven before me, and hearing the lamentation of there women. I didnt need to hold any objectives on my side of the board if I stopped you from holding any objectives on your side of the board
My army is no longer valid for 2 reasons
1. I can no longer use assault marines as troops
2. I can no longer put my assault marines into razor backs
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Post by: Wonderwolf
warboss wrote:
I did see that but the single exception doesn't negate the general rule.
Umm... of course it does.
If you claim there are no black swans, a single specimen will prove that wrong, even if it's only one among thousands. Simple laws of logic.
Of course, you could've phrased your original claim in a less exaggerated, panicky and inflammatory way, in which case a more reasonable argument around a possible bias might have come from it. As it is, you're sensationalist attempt to cry wolf just made you look like a fool.
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Post by: Warhams-77
New Artwork from the eBook preview
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Post by: Kangodo
Who is that first one? :O
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Post by: Desubot
I feel it may be a transcendent c tan
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Post by: sockwithaticket
New Terminator kit sprue pictures show that four out of five torso fronts come with a head already molded in and the legs all come with the back of the torso molded on.
That is abominable design. There is literally no reason not to follow the established pattern of loose heads and two piece torsos unless your specific aim was to cut down the options people have when posing their miniatures
For a company that keeps claiming it's about models not games it's truly pathetic. And they have the cheek to charge more for it than 4 of the other 5 terminator kits.
As ever with GW, they just cannot seem to do something good without following it up with something utterly stupid.
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Post by: Warhams-77
Yes, this (Ctan vs Hierophant) was already teasered in the white dwarf pages
Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is a lot of Sisters of Battle unit artwork in the Shield of Baal III iBook preview
There isnt much information about the detachments though. 'The Alliance of Asphodex' is the chapter when Necrons and Blood Angels fight side by side against the swarm
And...
There is a Necron Lord in the left corner of that photo which looks new
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Do we have pictures of this preview?
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Post by: Warhams-77
I am working on it
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Post by: Claimh_Solais
Most say I'm disappointed at the terminators :(
compared to the Deathwing ones
(I made my BA termis from the deathwing kit) I think its a really lazy jobb and all
torso and legs are onepic bitz ala starterbox termis kills it so much ..
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Post by: NoggintheNog
sockwithaticket wrote:New Terminator kit sprue pictures show that four out of five torso fronts come with a head already molded in and the legs all come with the back of the torso molded on.
That is abominable design. There is literally no reason not to follow the established pattern of loose heads and two piece torsos unless your specific aim was to cut down the options people have when posing their miniatures
For a company that keeps claiming it's about models not games it's truly pathetic. And they have the cheek to charge more for it than 4 of the other 5 terminator kits.
As ever with GW, they just cannot seem to do something good without following it up with something utterly stupid.
Its a silly design for sure. And one of the silliest is with 4 of the termies having a moulded in head with only one left blank, why include 5 separate heads other than bragging about parts count. It isnt choice, because four of those heads appear to be identical pairs
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Post by: Warhams-77
Ok, done and uploaded on imgur. Looks new, never saw a left hand like that
Lords Of Wargaming had rumored a new Necron Lord (not accompanied by a codex) late this year
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it Anrakyr?
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Post by: sockwithaticket
NoggintheNog wrote: sockwithaticket wrote:New Terminator kit sprue pictures show that four out of five torso fronts come with a head already molded in and the legs all come with the back of the torso molded on.
That is abominable design. There is literally no reason not to follow the established pattern of loose heads and two piece torsos unless your specific aim was to cut down the options people have when posing their miniatures
For a company that keeps claiming it's about models not games it's truly pathetic. And they have the cheek to charge more for it than 4 of the other 5 terminator kits.
As ever with GW, they just cannot seem to do something good without following it up with something utterly stupid.
Its a silly design for sure. And one of the silliest is with 4 of the termies having a moulded in head with only one left blank, why include 5 separate heads other than bragging about parts count. It isnt choice, because four of those heads appear to be identical pairs
It's truly baffling. It's difficult enough to get any sense of motion or dynamism into Terminators, positioning heads and torsos appropriately is one method of attempting to do that and this sprue design completely takes it away from you.
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Post by: jspyd3rx
Um. That's a new necron warrior, fyi.
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Post by: Warhams-77
It is Anrakyr, I guess
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Post by: Desubot
I think he means the guy behind the warrior.
I feel like that grav marine is going "oh feth me"
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Post by: Warhams-77
The Necron warrior is converted. Waaaghschale cleared that up
Image from WD 
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Post by: Ghaz
It does look like Anrakyr, but the Gauss Flayer on the Warrior looks to be either a new sculpt or a conversion.
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Post by: endlesswaltz123
Flesh Tearer, 1st & 2nd company supplements in the next book including different warlord and relics.... Wonder if any of them are going to have ASM's as troops. Stern guard with objective secured could be amazing, probably going to be the termies who get it though.
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Post by: PastelAvenger
endlesswaltz123 wrote:Flesh Tearer, 1st & 2nd company supplements in the next book including different warlord and relics.... Wonder if any of them are going to have ASM's as troops. Stern guard with objective secured could be amazing, probably going to be the termies who get it though.
I was told this today as well, didn't give me any details on it though.
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Post by: Warhams-77
I haven't read the SOB codex. These are shown in Shield of Baal 3 and are probably old artwork
Fleshtearers and Sisters in SoB 3
Another artwork from SoB 3
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Post by: Desubot
Dat Space battle. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Arnt those ships supposed to be irreplaceable?
iv always wondered how the impirum has soo many ships.
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Post by: TheDraconicLord
Oh, this is getting more and more glorious <3 Freakin' fantastic
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Post by: sockwithaticket
That many Flesh Tearers built from new models and on the new bigger bases = incoming supplement for my money.
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Post by: gorgon
If the FT are getting their traits and relics in Exterminatus, then that IS their supplement. Much like how Leviathan was the Tyranids' supplement.
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Post by: Warhams-77
Yes, it is a FT, BA and pre-codex Necron supplement at once
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Post by: rollawaythestone
That art is stellar. I imagine this will be one beautiful campaign book.
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Post by: Warhams-77
I found one of the Fleshtearer detachments in the eBook preview and more art. Uploading
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Necron Lord definitely says Anrakyr to me. That left arm is his Tesseract Arrow hand
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Post by: Chad Warden
All Necrons going 32mm now?
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Post by: Warhams-77
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Post by: Backfire
sockwithaticket wrote:New Terminator kit sprue pictures show that four out of five torso fronts come with a head already molded in and the legs all come with the back of the torso molded on.
That is abominable design. There is literally no reason not to follow the established pattern of loose heads and two piece torsos unless your specific aim was to cut down the options people have when posing their miniatures
For a company that keeps claiming it's about models not games it's truly pathetic. And they have the cheek to charge more for it than 4 of the other 5 terminator kits.
As ever with GW, they just cannot seem to do something good without following it up with something utterly stupid.
I guess they wanted better poses. Lets face it, multipose Terminators tend to have bad poses. Obviously it limits the options...
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Post by: rollawaythestone
Good eyes. Those do look like 32mm. Which would mean a reboxing of some Necron units.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Did anyone else notice that the Angelic Host Web Bundle's Command Squad was built using a bunch of BA Tactical Squad parts?
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Post by: jspyd3rx
Hey! What that tower in the back?! New Void shield?!
1
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Post by: Motograter
casvalremdeikun wrote:Did anyone else notice that the Angelic Host Web Bundle's Command Squad was built using a bunch of BA Tactical Squad parts?
Yes though they were on 25mm bases and not the new 32mm ones. Blood angels may yet have another week of releases. They still have no army boxed set release so throwing another new kit in is a possibility (fingers crossed for assault squads)
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Post by: Warhams-77
Could it be just converted? Looks interesting indeed
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Motograter wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:Did anyone else notice that the Angelic Host Web Bundle's Command Squad was built using a bunch of BA Tactical Squad parts?
Yes though they were on 25mm bases and not the new 32mm ones. Blood angels may yet have another week of releases. They still have no army boxed set release so throwing another new kit in is a possibility (fingers crossed for assault squads)
I am not counting on a new Assault Squad. If they were going to do it for BA, it seems they would've already done so. The only thing that I can really see is that the legs on the Company Champion are not from the Tactical Squad box. Is it possible that they are showing a converted kit? Sure, but that would be false advertising. Most of the other parts are just the regular Command Squad spruce mixed with Tactical Squad parts though.
If they did suddenly release a new Command Squad kit, I would be all over it. I may run into problems with slots with Elites pretty soon.
EDIT: oh Christ, it is the Company Champion torso from the Command Squad box. I'm slowed.
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Post by: Motograter
Still though army box will be due. See what comes with it if they get one anyway
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Post by: jah-joshua
i'm going to be painting Seth for the Nova Open charity raffle in a month or two...
good to see i chose a character who is getting some love...
it gets me even more motivated to paint ...
i'm loving the look of ALL the new BA plastics...
now it's time to finish painting a plastic Dante conversion...
my second one...
i'm happy to see my clients will be getting some good use out of him this time around...
i felt bad for the first guy who bought one, 9 months ago...
now, i bet he is stoked!!!
cheers
jah
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Post by: sockwithaticket
Backfire wrote: sockwithaticket wrote:New Terminator kit sprue pictures show that four out of five torso fronts come with a head already molded in and the legs all come with the back of the torso molded on.
That is abominable design. There is literally no reason not to follow the established pattern of loose heads and two piece torsos unless your specific aim was to cut down the options people have when posing their miniatures
For a company that keeps claiming it's about models not games it's truly pathetic. And they have the cheek to charge more for it than 4 of the other 5 terminator kits.
As ever with GW, they just cannot seem to do something good without following it up with something utterly stupid.
I guess they wanted better poses. Lets face it, multipose Terminators tend to have bad poses. Obviously it limits the options...
Absolutely many of the existing multi-part kits are hard to get decent poses out of, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that their legs don't already come with a back attached or front torso parts with heads whose facing direction cannot be altered. It's mainly down to the complete lack of thought that went into the leg and arm design of those kits, with the former all being the same kind of static, splayed, slightly crouched style that makes tactical marines so difficult to do anything cool with and the latter largely being straight arms with no indication that they can flex in any way whatsoever.
From the preview pictures on the website the alterations they've made to this kit do very little to address those issues, the lightning claw armed terminators are particularly good examples of this (the 'come at me bro' one excepted). Cutting down the posability of them without needing to hack them up is not helpful in getting better poses from your terminators. If they're going to restrict what we can do with them they could at least come up with more like the Dark Vengeance chainfist Terminator who is rearing back with his chainfist balled, ctually looking like he's about to punch it through something. That model demonstrates that they can engineer parts that make a dynamically posed Terminator if they put their minds to it and it would be so easy for them to alter that ad file to get an awesome lightning claw pose,
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Post by: Fango
Looks like standard Imperialis modular terrain with bits of the defense line up top?
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Post by: Nyghoma
Anyone know what the new Necron information looks like in Exterminus? I'm wondering if it's worth the buy.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I ordered the new campaign book. I didn't realise these were so expensive (I didn't look at the price of the first one I bought). Anyway, they're amazing books, so big props to GW for finally doing campaign books. But I of course immediately take those props back for not bothering to leverage these campaigns into a wider release. Shield of Baal will be forgotten as quickly as it arrived.
 Fango wrote:
Looks like standard Imperialis modular terrain with bits of the defense line up top?
It is. It's just a kit-bashed building.
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Post by: endlesswaltz123
Glad flesh tearers are getting some love though mind. Always preferred them as a chapter to the blood angels, that little bit darker and grim dark - surprised the sisters are happy to fight alongside them though given what happened on Armageddon.
It's not going to happen, but it would be lovely if the got a little upgrade sprue for them, 20 flesh tearer chapter shoulder pads, some chain axes, some really dark faces without the hair, maybe a bit of battle damaged armour to go here and there with a few vehicle parts.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
endlesswaltz123 wrote:Glad flesh tearers are getting some love though mind. Always preferred them as a chapter to the blood angels, that little bit darker and grim dark - surprised the sisters are happy to fight alongside them though given what happened on Armageddon.
It's not going to happen, but it would be lovely if the got a little upgrade sprue for them, 20 flesh tearer chapter shoulder pads, some chain axes, some really dark faces without the hair, maybe a bit of battle damaged armour to go here and there with a few vehicle parts.
I would love to see some upgrade sprues made for BA and Flesh Tearers. The art and color schemes of the Flesh Tearers in the new codex is phenomenal. The thing is, the new BA Tactical Squad box really doesn't fit Flesh Tearers very well, they would be better off using the regular Tactical Squad. If they released an upgrade sprue with ten Flesh Tearer shoulder pads, a heavy flamer, some Flesh Tearer helmets, and a muscled torso or two for the Sergeants would be really cool. That way they could customize the regular Tactical Squad kit.
I would like to see a kit for Blood Angels that comes with some shoulder pads, a muscled torso, some Jump Packs, and tabards so you can customize Assault Squads, Command Squads, and Captains to fit better with the new BA Tactical Squads. I get they want us to buy more BA Tactical squads, but I would gladly spend $10 USD on an upgrade sprue and a Command Squad.
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Post by: Bull0
GW do a nice line in flesh tearer shoulder pads but they've been out of stock for ages. That said, look at the image of Seth linked above - he's got basically as much straight Blood Angel iconography on him as he does Flesh Tearer, you could achieve the same effect by simply painting on the buzz saw motif on a kneepad and a shoulderpad. I disagree that the new tacticals kit doesn't fit Flesh Tearers well.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Bull0 wrote:GW do a nice line in flesh tearer shoulder pads but they've been out of stock for ages. That said, look at the image of Seth linked above - he's got basically as much straight Blood Angel iconography on him as he does Flesh Tearer, you could achieve the same effect by simply painting on the buzz saw motif on a kneepad and a shoulderpad. I disagree that the new tacticals kit doesn't fit Flesh Tearers well.
The wings are the biggest problem. The new Tactical squad is LITTERED with them. Works out well for most of the BA successors, but doesn't really fit the Flesh Tearers very well. And what I mean by that is Seth is the only Flesh Tearer depicted with wing iconography. The rest look like regular old Space Marines.
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Post by: endlesswaltz123
Yeah flesh tearers are thuggish and brutal. Their MO tends to have them run through so many brick walls that their equipment is damaged, possibly looting equipment post battle.
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Post by: Bull0
To be honest, even with my Blood Angels I mix and match the heavily blinged-up kits like Death Company with the normal marine kits to achieve a more "toned down" look, and I sort of assumed anyone making Flesh Tearers would do the same - that'd break up all the wings. And I've not seen many other flesh tearer images but of those I have, they universally have some wings on them somewhere (even if it's just the chest eagle)
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Post by: reds8n
This book being out this thread is over.
Further BA discussion can take place in the appropriate board, or a new thread can be started for any new models/books.
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