gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

It's a 33% price hike with no additional pages. Less than I thought but still rude.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

It's a 33% price hike with no additional pages. Less than I thought but still rude.

aka_mythos wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

It's a 33% price hike with no additional pages. Less than I thought but still rude.

But its "full-colour"... surely that counts for something.

aka_mythos wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

It's a 33% price hike with no additional pages. Less than I thought but still rude.

But its "full-colour"... surely that counts for something.

NAVARRO wrote:Well damn GW for making all spiders goofy but the rest of the model is sweet so yes a must buy... I could have got 3 of these but model not as good as I espected so only one for me.

JOHIRA wrote:I like the spider in an abstract way. I'd never buy it, don't play the army, but I like that it's there.

I'm pretty meh about the rest of it. And is it just me, or are the savage orc muscles unusually angular?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:It means we can enjoy the art recycled from 1993 in full color?

It means the fluff page where this one time some Orcs had a waagh and it was was awesome will now have a color border around it?

jgemrich wrote:I swear if GW included a certificate for a 'date' with a porn star in a release there would still be complaints.

As for hardback, I'm all for it after watching my space marine codex fall apart the first week of purchase.

Destrado wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Well damn GW for making all spiders goofy but the rest of the model is sweet so yes a must buy... I could have got 3 of these but model not as good as I espected so only one for me.

I wonder if you will... when I saw it I thought you'd get two or three to convert

I like the releases, but a hardback book will be a bit complicated. Price-wise amongst other things, I'd be nice if for every hardback they also sold (or the HB came with) a smaller booklet, ala BRB/Small rule book.

Polonius wrote:Undoubtedly, but that doesn't mean complaints can't be valid. If said porn star were, say, a gentleman that performs in "bear" videos, you might be less excited about that "date"...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Polonius wrote:Undoubtedly, but that doesn't mean complaints can't be valid. If said porn star were, say, a gentleman that performs in "bear" videos, you might be less excited about that "date"...

What's a 'bear' video... or do I not want to know?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Polonius wrote:Undoubtedly, but that doesn't mean complaints can't be valid. If said porn star were, say, a gentleman that performs in "bear" videos, you might be less excited about that "date"...

What's a 'bear' video... or do I not want to know?

NAVARRO wrote:

Will only get one, not 2 not 3 just one!

Who I'm I kidding...

Theres lots of potential in that kit

jgemrich wrote:I swear if GW included a certificate for a 'date' with a porn star in a release there would still be complaints.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Strikes of yet another short-term cash grab, probably started with some bean-counter going:

"Hey Jeff, our customers only ever buy one Codex book right? Well... let's make 'em more expensive then. I mean, if we're only going to sell one to each customer, might as well make as money money as we can."

Sarigar wrote:Cool looking models, but not enough to get me wanting to play Fantasy.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

It's a 33% price hike with no additional pages. Less than I thought but still rude.

jgemrich wrote:I swear if GW included a certificate for a 'date' with a porn star in a release there would still be complaints.

Regarless, great release. The spider is fantastic and I love how the SO boar boyz are sitting up vs hunched like the new boar boyz.

As for hardback, I'm all for it after watching my space marine codex fall apart the first week of purchase.

Makov wrote:Can't...start...another...army...

Father Gabe wrote:

jgemrich wrote:I swear if GW included a certificate for a 'date' with a porn star in a release there would still be complaints.

Regarless, great release. The spider is fantastic and I love how the SO boar boyz are sitting up vs hunched like the new boar boyz.

As for hardback, I'm all for it after watching my space marine codex fall apart the first week of purchase.

Actually I dont think there would be a complaint on that one...just saying


Automatically Appended Next Post:
just read the bear comment...i retract my statement...ick.

On a positive note, full color book would be nice but still a 33% price hike for artwork that will probably be at least 50% recycled is a downer. Perhaps if they added additional pages and content, I would be more impressed. Once again, the spider is amazing. I have no need for it but that model would be great as a showcase piece.

Boss Salvage wrote:
So yea, can't wait to be an idiot and start up an all savage army

MegaDave wrote:I really want a giant spider, just to cut it up into some other unrecognizable monster. And I like the savage orcs, even though some of their muscles look they have hard edges to them.

agnosto wrote:Those gobbos with two weapons will make awesome sneaky git stand-ins for my Chaos Dwarf army.

Kanluwen wrote:

agnosto wrote:Those gobbos with two weapons will make awesome sneaky git stand-ins for my Chaos Dwarf army.

The Sneaky Gitz surely are the real winners of this release

Ixquic wrote:Also if they are charging $40 a book now they damn well have better cleared up the "pages falling out a week after purchase" problem.

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

agnosto wrote:Those gobbos with two weapons will make awesome sneaky git stand-ins for my Chaos Dwarf army.

The Sneaky Gitz surely are the real winners of this release

From what I gather from the blurp it looks like they'll have ASF and AP while being able to strike from deeper ranks. Not bad rules if I had a Goblin army I'd definitely be adding them.

Kanluwen wrote:I hadn't noticed until I was looking at them again that there's a blurb from "Da Block Gobbo" down at the bottom.

Epic.

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I hadn't noticed until I was looking at them again that there's a blurb from "Da Block Gobbo" down at the bottom.

Epic.

I actually like the blurps, a fluffy way to give unit information.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Someone please tell me the hardback is a limited release thing. I really don't want to start spending $40 per armybook. I mean the current $30 is enough to stop me from buying them just to read.

And companies wonder why they lose money to internet piracy. . . I don't even see it as piracy anymore I see it as a case of robin-hood.

Da Boss wrote:I like the giant spider, but in a way, I think it would detract from the feel of my Orc and Goblin army. Instead of being a chaotic horde of allied tribes, it would become "a bunch of guys and their massive spider". I might get one, but I hope I can run a solid list without needing one.

Kanluwen wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Someone please tell me the hardback is a limited release thing. I really don't want to start spending $40 per armybook. I mean the current $30 is enough to stop me from buying them just to read.

33 more pages than the current Orcs & Goblin book, with the entire book being done in full color.
There's going to be a price bump if even just one case from those two parts had come to pass, not a price drop.

And companies wonder why they lose money to internet piracy. . . I don't even see it as piracy anymore I see it as a case of robin-hood.

You do realize that Robin Hood wasn't stealing things for his own gain, right?

And that the whole point of the story of Robin Hood was about the tyranny of monarchs, nothing that can remotely be compared to a free market and bad business strategies.

George Spiggott wrote:If you look across the industry £22.50 is actually quite reasonable.

That spider is quite lovely. Sans all those stupid goblin bits it would look awesome.

Is it possible to make an army of just spiders and river trolls (also lovely), perhaps led by a Shaman. Can giant spiders make power attacks?

Shas'o Dorian wrote:You are over analyzing the robin-hood metaphor. I know it's not perfect but I see $40 for an overly flashy army book too steep.

Kanluwen wrote:

Shas'o Dorian wrote:You are over analyzing the robin-hood metaphor. I know it's not perfect but I see $40 for an overly flashy army book too steep.

It's a terrible metaphor that you used in a context to try to justify internet piracy. The army book isn't something that is essential to your everyday survival or livelihood.

Kanluwen wrote:Just noticed that there is apparently a new Goblin character named "Gitilla Da Hunter".

Interesting. I wonder if they're making him similar to the Squig Hunters in WAR?

catharsix wrote:as for that big spider, all i can say is...

HO-LY SHIP... want very badly.

that thing is going to be my Tervigon. to heck with the conversion kits, super-expensive Russian models, and converting Carifexes. that thing was MADE to be spawning little gaunts. totally gonna pre-order that.

-C6

"Whirling Death" is just them moving the Night Goblin Fanatics from packs of one to three.

schadenfreude wrote:The price hike to hardback is $8.25.

$8.25 is not a big deal if we are getting a better product, especially in a hobby thats.

$8.25 won't even noticeable to a player starting a savage ork army with the new plastics.

I for one am very willing to pay $8.25 for a superior product, especially as $37.25 for a hardback is less of a rip off than 29.00 for a soft back.

That is unless the hardback book is an inferior product in comparison to the current army books. If the spine breaks and the pages flop out I'm sure I won't be the only one that will end up pissed off about paying more money for an inferior product.

It's all good as long if the book's spine is high quality, and that's a big if.

Lord of Deeds wrote:
The spider looks great, and to be honest, I like all the new O&G models. Not sure I like the paint job on the boars though.

As for the book, a little bit more mixed. I really do hope they plan on offering a soft cover version for practical reasons. As for the price, since GW is advertising a hard back full color army book which is what PP offers as well, we seem to have an opportunity to do an apples to apples comparison on value. PP forces of Kador hardcover book is $0.31 per page US compared to $0.36 per page US for the GW O&G hardcover book for about a 16% difference in price. Assuming that a lot of the content of the O&G book will be recycled (Art, flavor text, etc.) then it would seem that the book has a GW brand price premium built in since on it's face it is a poor value vis-a-vis the PP product offerings. But then we already knew that, right?

Lord of Deeds wrote:
The spider looks great, and to be honest, I like all the new O&G models. Not sure I like the paint job on the boars though.

As for the book, a little bit more mixed. I really do hope they plan on offering a soft cover version for practical reasons. As for the price, since GW is advertising a hard back full color army book which is what PP offers as well, we seem to have an opportunity to do an apples to apples comparison on value. PP forces of Kador hardcover book is $0.31 per page US compared to $0.36 per page US for the GW O&G hardcover book for about a 16% difference in price. Assuming that a lot of the content of the O&G book will be recycled (Art, flavor text, etc.) then it would seem that the book has a GW brand price premium built in since on it's face it is a poor value vis-a-vis the PP product offerings. But then we already knew that, right?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Strikes of yet another short-term cash grab, probably started with some bean-counter going:

"Hey Jeff, our customers only ever buy one Codex book right? Well... let's make 'em more expensive then. I mean, if we're only going to sell one to each customer, might as well make as money money as we can."

Kanluwen wrote:33 more pages than the current Orcs & Goblin book, with the entire book being done in full color.
There's going to be a price bump if even just one case from those two parts had come to pass, not a price drop.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

It's a 33% price hike with no additional pages. Less than I thought but still rude.

But its "full-colour"... surely that counts for something.

It means we can enjoy the art recycled from 1993 in full color?

It means the fluff page where this one time some Orcs had a waagh and it was was awesome will now have a color border around it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Savage orcs are also $30 for 10, while most sets are usually $25 for 10. 20% hike.

carmachu wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:33 more pages than the current Orcs & Goblin book, with the entire book being done in full color.
There's going to be a price bump if even just one case from those two parts had come to pass, not a price drop.

You can of course try and justify the new price in hardcover. But the fact is folks are saying $30 was their limit. Giving them things like "hardcover" or more recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count isnt what they want.....wont justify the new price to some. Or many.

epy346 wrote:The posts and blurbs seem indicate all-new or mostly new art. I haven't seen any recycled stuff just yet from the pictures, but we'll see how it goes.

carmachu wrote:You can of course try and justify the new price in hardcover. But the fact is folks are saying $30 was their limit. Giving them things like "hardcover" or more recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count isnt what they want.....wont justify the new price to some. Or many.

aka_mythos wrote:This like all of Games Workshop products is a luxury item, that we all can go on living without. So those who think its worth it will have, and those who don't won't. This is how the world works.

SweetLou wrote:well you say spider.............i see a tervigon

aka_mythos wrote:

carmachu wrote:You can of course try and justify the new price in hardcover. But the fact is folks are saying $30 was their limit. Giving them things like "hardcover" or more recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count isnt what they want.....wont justify the new price to some. Or many.

The worlds not fair. If $30 truly is a persons limit, they should probably have questioned to themselves getting into a hobby where they were putting themselve on the brink of impoverishment to play. Whether a person decides to continue their hobby is their personal choice. The product by all rational: material, effort, and design is worth $37... it only stands to be seen if it truly is worth that to the individual. This like all of Games Workshop products is a luxury item, that we all can go on living without. So those who think its worth it will have, and those who don't won't. This is how the world works.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

It's a 33% price hike with no additional pages. Less than I thought but still rude.

But its "full-colour"... surely that counts for something.

It means we can enjoy the art recycled from 1993 in full color?

It means the fluff page where this one time some Orcs had a waagh and it was was awesome will now have a color border around it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Savage orcs are also $30 for 10, while most sets are usually $25 for 10. 20% hike.

I'd just like to reiterate this post. It rings true for me as well.

If we saw the 33% price rise mean that the army book or codex was merged into an additional fluff tome, so for example the new Empire book when it comes out is the combined weight and content of a previous style army book along with 'Uniforms and Heraldry', then it's taking that sting out somewhat.

But to go up by 33% with no additional pages AT ALL?!? c'mon, that's daylight fething robbery in it's self.

To those angrily defending and touting 'you don't have to play the game and you can leave at any stage', consider someone who's invested in an army for years and years and what they stand to lose if they now abandon the GW hobby and look to reinvest in a new wargame. They are a mite trapped and in their case, I'd give serious consideration to obtaining a download instead, illegal or not.

Niccolo wrote:I had a thorough read of the book today. I came away impressed with the rules and the book itself. Very pretty with new pictures. As an O&G player I would have bought it eventually, but I pre-ordered it and Ive never pre-ordered a GW book before.

Kanluwen wrote: so we can get the whining about "NO NEW CONTENT! HIGHWAY ROBBERY! PIRATE IT! " out of the way please!

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Man, you guys, calm down, it is just a game. Is nothing sacred? I mean, really! We get a 112 page hardcover, full cover army book from GW for $37(which is cheap, the paper they print on and the color ink they use is PRICEY) and we get people throwing hissy fits like a bunch of 12 year old Justin Bieber fangirls! Really? Have you no balls?

If only people got this passionate about things that really matter, like animal abuse and environmental degradation, the world would be a better place.

_Tim?

Edit: Oh, yeah, and there is thing called "discount retailers" and eBay, where you can get any GW product for 20% off all the time.

agnosto wrote:The thing that gets me about the 8ed book and probably all books that will come out now is that they fill it up with lots of pretty pictures when all I want is the rules so I can play the game. I would be willing to pay the same price if they toss the pictures, fluff and 'eavy metal crap and just give me condensed, easy to read rules.

Meh.

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Did I also mention my old soft cover army book is on its last legs, even after being taped and glue from day 1?

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Dude, it would be cheaper to have less pictures and fluff, but then you end up with a much more boring game. Have you ever heard of Kings of War? It is a great game with a good system as far as I have heard, but has the worlds worst looking rules. Just plain 'ol text with some icon here and there. Completely dull and un-inspiring, which was why I never started the game, even though it is touted by it's fans as one of the best fantasy rules systems out there. It is just bad marketing all around.

Did I also mention my old soft cover army book is on its last legs, even after being taped and glue from day 1?

_Tim?

ImperialTard wrote:When I read your first post my brain nearly shut down at seeing you post something not incredibly cynical. Glad you mulled it over and maintained the status quo.

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:You could just borrow the rulebook from a friend, and handcopy the rules that you need into Microsoft word, then just print it out, then you don't have to pay for it. Or you could try breaking and entering, grabbing the army book, madly scribbling the rules down in a notebook by the light of a flashlight, putting the book back, the leaving. Still don't have to pay, and it looks nice and bland enough to satisfy the gamer in you.

aka_mythos wrote:

carmachu wrote:You can of course try and justify the new price in hardcover. But the fact is folks are saying $30 was their limit. Giving them things like "hardcover" or more recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count isnt what they want.....wont justify the new price to some. Or many.

The worlds not fair. If $30 truly is a persons limit, they should probably have questioned to themselves getting into a hobby where they were putting themselve on the brink of impoverishment to play. Whether a person decides to continue their hobby is their personal choice. The product by all rational: material, effort, and design is worth $37... it only stands to be seen if it truly is worth that to the individual. This like all of Games Workshop products is a luxury item, that we all can go on living without. So those who think its worth it will have, and those who don't won't. This is how the world works.

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
@Fullheadofhair: I am mostly just annoyed that you and others seem to take it all totally for granted. It is annoying as those of us who get excited about it have to deal with party-poopers.

_Tim?

carmachu wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

carmachu wrote:You can of course try and justify the new price in hardcover. But the fact is folks are saying $30 was their limit. Giving them things like "hardcover" or more recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count isnt what they want.....wont justify the new price to some. Or many.

The worlds not fair. If $30 truly is a persons limit, they should probably have questioned to themselves getting into a hobby where they were putting themselve on the brink of impoverishment to play. Whether a person decides to continue their hobby is their personal choice. The product by all rational: material, effort, and design is worth $37... it only stands to be seen if it truly is worth that to the individual. This like all of Games Workshop products is a luxury item, that we all can go on living without. So those who think its worth it will have, and those who don't won't. This is how the world works.

No offense, but your logic is slowed. I didnt say the $30 limit was due to "the brink of impovishment" or any nonsense. People have a limit for what they will pay for items and consider fair.

I have the money to buy a $37 hardcover O&G book. There is no way this side of hell I will. Its NOT WORTH THE MONEY they want to charge for the book. It is NOT WORTH $37 to me. No army book or codex is from GW. $25 is my limit of what I consider them worth buying. Beyond that, I wont spend my money on it. I can afford to do so, but given GW's track record of quality and such in printed form, no way, no how is it worth $37. hardcover, color or page count.

yevix wrote:
I think the price is so hefty cause of the VAT Increase that happend this year, they are simply putting up all the prices on all their products its unavoidable

fullheadofhair wrote:

yevix wrote:
I think the price is so hefty cause of the VAT Increase that happend this year, they are simply putting up all the prices on all their products its unavoidable

I am afraid that is just not true. Even though flag is US I am English and I used to do VAT for Kraft Foods (i.e I understand how VAT works) and how pricing is decided in a retail operation.With regard to the US, there is no VAT and infact, in some states there is sales tax to add to this - unlike VAT sales tax is added at the till as the customer pays. For me, with sales tax, the book is closer to $41.

Mewiththeface wrote:@fullheadofhair
You don't want a hardbound book with plenty of pictures, apparently good rules, and new content and fluff for a fair price of 37$, what do you want?
A cheaper price isn't a good answer.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

ImperialTard wrote:When I read your first post my brain nearly shut down at seeing you post something not incredibly cynical. Glad you mulled it over and maintained the status quo.

No problem 'Tard.






Wow... that joke kinda wrote itself.

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:You could just borrow the rulebook from a friend, and handcopy the rules that you need into Microsoft word, then just print it out, then you don't have to pay for it. Or you could try breaking and entering, grabbing the army book, madly scribbling the rules down in a notebook by the light of a flashlight, putting the book back, the leaving. Still don't have to pay, and it looks nice and bland enough to satisfy the gamer in you.

_Tim?

Mewiththeface wrote:@fullheadofhair
You don't want a hardbound book with plenty of pictures, apparently good rules, and new content and fluff for a fair price of 37$, what do you want?
A cheaper price isn't a good answer.

yevix wrote:They should have released 1 big book with all the rules for all the armies, no fluff, no fiction practically no pictures just the raw rules, special rules, items etc


Then release individual books on armies with fluff, painting guides, artwork, stories etc

dienekes96 wrote:I am thrilled it is in hardcover. Gets rid of the riffraff playing the game, and classes up the local gaming scene.

dienekes96 wrote:I do appreciate all of the business advice in this thread. In lieu of an MBA, I am going to collate all of the comments about GW's business practices in this, and similar, threads into Microsoft Word and submit it as my thesis. I smell a publishable article.

dienekes96 wrote:I am thrilled it is in hardcover. Gets rid of the riffraff playing the game, and classes up the local gaming scene.

Vilegrimm wrote:Hmmm... I've seen a few fellow Canadians mention the new Orc & Goblin stuff, but none have mentioned the army book price yet. Kind of funny that our dollar is slightly over par with the American Dollar, is 0.62 pounds English, but:

US book price: $37.25
Canadian book price: $44.75

Really? are we really going back to this style of GW pricing?

No... no thanks, even though I have a huge O&G army, I think I'll pass...


-Vilegrimm

Blokus wrote:

dienekes96 wrote:I am thrilled it is in hardcover. Gets rid of the riffraff playing the game, and classes up the local gaming scene.

+1

Hopefully all books become hardcover so that the gutter trash that smell like ashtrays will never again plague the play area. They can take their pdf army books and hodge-podge of minis and play behind the Taco Bell dumpster.

Blokus wrote:

dienekes96 wrote:I am thrilled it is in hardcover. Gets rid of the riffraff playing the game, and classes up the local gaming scene.

+1

Hopefully all books become hardcover so that the gutter trash that smell like ashtrays will never again plague the play area. They can take their pdf army books and hodge-podge of minis and play behind the Taco Bell dumpster.

augustus5 wrote:

Mewiththeface wrote:@fullheadofhair
You don't want a hardbound book with plenty of pictures, apparently good rules, and new content and fluff for a fair price of 37$, what do you want?
A cheaper price isn't a good answer.

I want a softcover book with apparently good rules and comparable content and fluff. 112 pages isn't that much more than a typical army book. I don't need hardcover or brightly colored borders on the pages to capture my attention, I'm perfectly happy with the few pages of colored pictures of the models currently found in army books.

IF they were to add more rules/more fluff, maybe army specific game variants (think of the Battle Missions book and take an army's section out and toss it into the army book) then I would be happy to pay $40 for an army book, hard or soft cover. As it stands this is a 25% price hike and all I'm getting is a book that's hardcover as opposed to softcover.

yevix wrote: this angle looks so much better


I think gw has 1 good thing going for it, they make some of the best (and cheap compared to forgeworld) large kit models, this spider is superb already pre ordered it

RiTides wrote:

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:You could just borrow the rulebook from a friend, and handcopy the rules that you need into Microsoft word, then just print it out, then you don't have to pay for it. Or you could try breaking and entering, grabbing the army book, madly scribbling the rules down in a notebook by the light of a flashlight, putting the book back, the leaving. Still don't have to pay, and it looks nice and bland enough to satisfy the gamer in you.

The hyperbole really isn't needed or helpful...

Puscifer wrote:
I don't know if anyone knows this or not - but are the howdah and goblins removable as in can I just have the spider and annoying WHFB bits on it???

If so, I have just found a base model for a Tyrannofex and Tervigon.

Mewiththeface wrote:@fullheadofhair
You don't want a hardbound book with plenty of pictures, apparently good rules, and new content and fluff for a fair price of 37$, what do you want?
A cheaper price isn't a good answer.

Polonius wrote:It's an interesting gambit, and it might work. As a hobby we've swallowed every price increase thus far.

NAVARRO wrote:From the vibes I get on dakka and over the net it seems to me that in general people are really not swallowing anymore, yet this is only my grosse generalization since only GW has the numbers.

I could be filthy rich but that doesnt mean I'm not price sensitive, only a fool doesnt avaluate what he is actually buying.

dienekes96 wrote:I am thrilled it is in hardcover. Gets rid of the riffraff playing the game, and classes up the local gaming scene.

Polonius wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:From the vibes I get on dakka and over the net it seems to me that in general people are really not swallowing anymore, yet this is only my grosse generalization since only GW has the numbers.

I could be filthy rich but that doesnt mean I'm not price sensitive, only a fool doesnt avaluate what he is actually buying.

I hear that, and I"m not saying that nobody is price sensitive. I've been in the hobby for nine years now, or roughly when the price hikes began in earnest. In that time, I've heard plenty of comments about "GW pricing itself out of the market" while my collection grows, my ability to get in a game grows, and the national tournament scene and interent hobby scene grows.

Obviously there's a point where the product becomes untenably expensive. I've just stopped trying to gues where that point is. I speak for myself and my buying habits when I talk about price, but I've been proven wrong too many times to bank too hard on the idea that GW doesn't know what they are doing.

I've also learned that people leave the hobby because they are done with it. Now, the reason given is always something like price, or new rules, or not wanting to add on to their army, but the bottom line is that most people don't stay in a hobby for a decade, let along their entire life. So yes, this price increase may knock some people out, but they were mostly out the door already.

If I'm an O&G player that games twice a week and attends tournaments, that new army book is well worth $37, as it keeps me playing.

Polonius wrote:Well, for nearly all hobbyists the buying slows down. I own many large armies: why would I keep buying massive amounts of new stuff?

there is massive diminishing returns. The first GW models I bought I still use and have been painted for years. Everytime I start a new army I have to be aware that I've got more than few unfinished armies already waiting for me. The $500 I spent a decade ago on my IG bought me a decade of gaming, painting, and entry into the hobby. the $500 I've spent on Orks have bought me a few games and a giant pile of unpainted plastic. Part of that is the change from college student with more time than money to professional with ample funds but limited free time. But part of it is that after a few armies, $500 could buy more fun with Warmachine, or an Xbox, or whatever.

NAVARRO wrote:Why do you buy say more videogames or movies etc? There's always another army, another system this hobby is much about compulsive shopping but since prices are getting a "luxury" you start to be a lot less compulsive, see my point?... 500$ may be well spent elsewere for another kind of enjoyment true and I do that quite often although I dont see myself buying diferent GW armies like I used to because I know the train wreck its going to be price wise.

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Man, you guys, calm down, it is just a game. Is nothing sacred? I mean, really! We get a 112 page hardcover, full cover army book from GW for $37(which is cheap, the paper they print on and the color ink they use is PRICEY) ...
Edit: Oh, yeah, and there is thing called "discount retailers" and eBay, where you can get any GW product for 20% off all the time.

Lordhat wrote:I for one refuse to buy army books/ codecies in hard back. I'm not gonna pay $40 for a book that I'll ruin shoving it in/out of my gaming bag. Hardbacks are simply the wrong format for something that gets that much use, and we all know that the quality is going to be crap from the get go. Not to mention my gaming supplies are already heavy enough. Unless GW plans on releasing softbacks versions as well, I'll just end up getting a PDF version somewhere, and make do with that.

Polonius wrote:Ok, obviously few O&G players are going to not buy the new book. So, a big market is already there. And if GW continues to make each new release great in terms of models and rules, then the book will sell because it's a good army.

So, in terms of the already hooked, and the people that are going to get hooked, the price is either worth it or worth swallowing.

Here's a question, which I'm guessing GW market reseach knows: how many people buy army books without necessarily playing that army? Meaning, how many hobbyiest own more than a small handful of army books?

I don't know. I know that I have nearly every 40k codex ever published, and most of the 6th and 7th edition WFB books (and I've played five games of fantasy in my life). $20 was an easy impulse buy. $25 wasn't hard, especially as quality goes up. Nearly $40 starts becoming a luxury for me.

Now, it's possible that GW thinks that instead of spendin the $37 on a book I won't use, I'll spend it on other GW product. And maybe they are right.

The point is, they've essentially release a "deluxe collectors edition", and if there is no standard version, it becomes less worthwhile to many hobbyist.

It's an interesting gambit, and it might work. As a hobby we've swallowed every price increase thus far.

Polonius wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:From the vibes I get on dakka and over the net it seems to me that in general people are really not swallowing anymore, yet this is only my grosse generalization since only GW has the numbers.

I could be filthy rich but that doesnt mean I'm not price sensitive, only a fool doesnt avaluate what he is actually buying.

I hear that, and I"m not saying that nobody is price sensitive. I've been in the hobby for nine years now, or roughly when the price hikes began in earnest. In that time, I've heard plenty of comments about "GW pricing itself out of the market" while my collection grows, my ability to get in a game grows, and the national tournament scene and interent hobby scene grows.

Obviously there's a point where the product becomes untenably expensive. I've just stopped trying to gues where that point is. I speak for myself and my buying habits when I talk about price, but I've been proven wrong too many times to bank too hard on the idea that GW doesn't know what they are doing.

I've also learned that people leave the hobby because they are done with it. Now, the reason given is always something like price, or new rules, or not wanting to add on to their army, but the bottom line is that most people don't stay in a hobby for a decade, let along their entire life. So yes, this price increase may knock some people out, but they were mostly out the door already.

If I'm an O&G player that games twice a week and attends tournaments, that new army book is well worth $37, as it keeps me playing.

Lordhat wrote:I for one refuse to buy army books/ codecies in hard back. I'm not gonna pay $40 for a book that I'll ruin shoving it in/out of my gaming bag. Hardbacks are simply the wrong format for something that gets that much use, and we all know that the quality is going to be crap from the get go. Not to mention my gaming supplies are already heavy enough. Unless GW plans on releasing softbacks versions as well, I'll just end up getting a PDF version somewhere, and make do with that.

NAVARRO wrote:
Yeah we old buggers that have been here for more than a decade know that people come and go and yes I know you were talking from your personal experience towards GW. You know I kind of feel we are the exception since most just find other hobbies
But personally speaking I dont buy not even 10% of what I used to get back in the days and each box or blister I get from GW must really be special... For example I just got Hordes rulebook and I think I should have had the hardback because the quality perceived is so much higher than anything GW churns out.

You also seem to be a bit more concerned about prices since you consider a book over X a luxury and anyone that been around for so long knows this trend of raising prices is getting out of hand latelly, blame the economic situation or just our old grumpy mood but I believe that even hardcore folks are reavaluating the amounts they ussually get from GW.

I suck at economics so from the reviews i read about GW sales if they are accurate and if GW is not selling what it was supposed to maybe a critical mass has been reached, I dont know.
Sometimes little things like this 30%raise on book can change everything and some people close the doors... the problem is that GW has been doing so many little things like this so often.
Sorry for all these ramblings but sometimes I look at GW and see the stress they make me endure and supporting a GW army is becoming more of a burden than rather a pleasure and thats the absolute oposite of my definition of hobby.

Buzzsaw wrote:

Polonius wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:From the vibes I get on dakka and over the net it seems to me that in general people are really not swallowing anymore, yet this is only my grosse generalization since only GW has the numbers.

I could be filthy rich but that doesnt mean I'm not price sensitive, only a fool doesnt avaluate what he is actually buying.

I hear that, and I"m not saying that nobody is price sensitive. I've been in the hobby for nine years now, or roughly when the price hikes began in earnest. In that time, I've heard plenty of comments about "GW pricing itself out of the market" while my collection grows, my ability to get in a game grows, and the national tournament scene and interent hobby scene grows.

Obviously there's a point where the product becomes untenably expensive. I've just stopped trying to gues where that point is. I speak for myself and my buying habits when I talk about price, but I've been proven wrong too many times to bank too hard on the idea that GW doesn't know what they are doing.

I've also learned that people leave the hobby because they are done with it. Now, the reason given is always something like price, or new rules, or not wanting to add on to their army, but the bottom line is that most people don't stay in a hobby for a decade, let along their entire life. So yes, this price increase may knock some people out, but they were mostly out the door already.

If I'm an O&G player that games twice a week and attends tournaments, that new army book is well worth $37, as it keeps me playing.

This got me thinking about models for getting rules to players, and I realized how elegant PP's model actually is:

Hardcore collector/enthusiast of one faction? Get the $45 hardcover faction book, with full art, background and modeling sections.

Collector/enthusiast of more then one faction? $35 softcover has (as far as I know) all the content in the hardcore.

Just want the rules for a given faction? For $19 you can get the faction deck, which has rules for all the models updated for Mk.II.

That 3 tier system seems pretty good now that I think about it. When Army Books/Codices were around the $25 mark, I would pick each one up as it came out, just to have a handle on the shape of the game. As the books have gone up in price, I've stopped picking them up, and co-incident with that my overall interest has dropped (not going to blame that all on book prices).

But, if I could pick up just the rules for the faction for $19 MSRP? You bet I would have all of them.

But, GW is, at least it seems, going the opposite direction here: rather then give people multiple ways in, they are only offering the premium level.

Durzod wrote:I don't like to rely on Army Builder (too many glitches), but that may be the way to go if I wanna continue 40k and/or WHFB. Wait a couple of months THEN play the newest version of my old armies...until GW catches on and yanks their license.
GW, now there's the real internet pirates.

heacy hitter wrote:I like the look of whats in the bottom left hand corne. Wonder what it is?

Nothing in the 8th edition book leads me to believe the army rules will be better; in fact playing 8th edition has shown the exact opposite since 6th and 7th were inherently better designed...

yevix wrote:
maybe less focus on pictures and artwork and fluff that doesn't make sense most of the time and more on rules paint guides etc...

I can see his point not everyone cares about the fluff or artwork (I certainly dont care is its black and white or color) some just want a good tabletop game...

dienekes96 wrote:I am thrilled it is in hardcover. Gets rid of the riffraff playing the game, and classes up the local gaming scene.

Bram Gaunts OnG summary

Disclaimer: I will repeat some things that already were said. I will only talk about -new- things. I will not talk about pointcosts. I have a raging headache, so there will be more mispelling than usual.

General Rules

Animosity: Each Unit with the Animosity special rule with at least 5 moldels wit hthat rule rolls 1d6 at beginning of their players turn. 2+ nothing happens, and the unit may act normally.

You do not toll for animosity as long as you man a building.

On a roll of 1, roll a D6 again, and consult the following chart to see what happens.

1: The unit deals D6 S3 autohits to the nearest friendly unit with: at least 5 models that have the animosity rule, within 12 inches. The 'hit' unit afterwards deals D6 S3 hits to the quarreling unit. If there's no valid 'target', treat this result as a 2-5
Hordes caus 2D6 hits.
This never causes panic.
Both units may not perform any other action in this turn. The 'victim' does not have to roll for animosity this turn - they are to busy fighting back.

2-5: The unit has to declare an attack at the nearest valid enemy unit. If there is no target, the greenskins start to attack each other. Nothing happens, but the unit may not move, attack, shoot or cast spells for the following turn.

6. "Who's da best? Yes, dat's us. Let's get 'em!" The unit is aligned towards the nearest enemy unit and performs a regular move action towards that unit (it may not march, and stops 1 inch before enemy units. ). Afterwards, the unit may act normal. If there is no visible opponent the unit moves straight forward.
EG: A unit of Goblin Wolf Riders rolls a 1, followed by a 6, for animosity. You measure the distance to all enemy units, and find that a unit of Highelf Reavers, standing 20" away in their flank, is the nearest unit. The goblins are now turned on spot (as they would be if they were to persue an enemy) and are moved 9 inches towards the reavers afterwards. They may declare a charge, move, march or fire their weapons at will.


Choppas.
A model with a Choppa increases it's strength characteristics by 1 for each first round of close combat. This does not apply to mounts of any kind. It applys to magical weapons aswell.

Fear Elves:
Any Elven Unit causes fear for a unit with this special rule.

Size matters:
Orks never have to pass a panic test caused by a unit that is only composed from goblins or creatures ridden by goblins (that goes for the arachnarok spider aswell)

Big'unz
You may have one unit total per army.

Units

Ork Warbosses (any kind)
Profile the same. Orc Warbosses have light armour, black orc warbosses heavy armour as standard loadout.

Waaagh! Special rule.
Once per game, a Orc Warboss who is the army general of any kind (Savage or Black or Vanilla) may declare a Waaagh, after he declared a valid charge. For the rest of the turn all units of Boar Boys (any kind) or Orcs (any kind) that have at least 5 models gain +1 on their combat resolution. The Generals unit gains +D3 instead. (Yes, that rule is lame.)

Surpress Animosity (Black Orc Characters) If a unit fails their animosity check, the Boss deals D6 S5 hits, that may not be allocated to the boss and never cause panic.


Shaman - no change.

I don't know if it was the case earlier, but great orc shaman may mound a wyvern now.

Orcs:

Arrar Boys Boss gains +1 BS instead of +1 A/WS

Boar Boys:
No changes in stats. Come with a hand weapon and light armour at moderate point costs. Big un upgrade and weapons upgrades are a little cheaper. Overall I personally still don't deem them worthy...

Orc Chariot
No changes. Keeps spears and the option on 3rd crew member.

Black Orcs
Points dropped (or point drop), gained ItP

Savage ORcs
Savage orcs gain the impact-spear. It'S a unit upgrade that can be taken once. The unit deals D3 S5 impact hits (which deal D3 wounds at large creatures) as long as it has at least 1 rank of 5 models behind the first.. You have to nominate 1 model that causes the hits at the beginning of close combat.

Savage Boar Boys
Savage Boar Boys gain +1 attack from fighting with 2 handweapons, but they suffer casulties for dangerous terrain on a roll of 1-2.

Goblin Bosses (any kind) - no changes. They may NOT declare a Waaagh.

Goblin Shaman
Night Goblin Shaman now have magic shrooms (don't know what they are called) as a default loadout. they have to take one at east attempt to cast a spell. They add D6 on their casting attempt.
This is not counted a power dice and therefor may not trigger irresistable force. If the goblin rolls a 1 for the shroom he loses a wound on a roll of 4+ and the cast is automatically considered a miscast (meaning it fails) as long as he doesn't roll irresistable force with the power dice.

Goblins
Upgrade costs at the same price as skaven clanrats.
Nigh Goblins may get to pic either bows or spears for free instead.
Sneaky Gitz (those new chars) are treated as characters and may not leave the unit. They are hidden just as skaven/DE assassins, nut have to be revealed at 1st round of cc. they may be targetted individually.
Thay gain killing blow at first round of combat.
They have a S of 3, 2 A, WS 2.

Goblin Wolfriders
remain light cavallery with 4+ AS.

Goblin Chariots
the same, same options.

Rock Lobba - the same

Spear Chukka:
If you roll a 1 to hit you roll on the misfire chart of Stonethrowers from the rulebook.

Doom Divers
Fires like a Stonethrower, but still deals D6 S5 hits with no AS allowed.
You may hit several units with the doom diver theoratically, as you use his base (the winged guy on the skimemr base) to determine who's hit.

Spider-Riders
May move across obstacles and Buildings without penaltys, but not end their movement atop of them (or in them)
They can fight in buildings and keep all benefits from being mounted. Mount and rider count as 1 model.

Arachnarok Spider
Where to start?
ItP, causes Terror, Large Target, Stubborn, Fast Movement, Wallclimber (may move over buildings like Spider Riders), Poisoned attacks (spider only)

All attacs in CC are fought against the Spider. You cannot attack the goblin crew in any way. If it's mounted by a great shaman the shaman is hit by all ranged attacks on a roll of 5+

It has a Crew of 8 goblins armed with bows and spears.

Poisoned blow: befor rolling to hit with the spider you have to pick one of it'S attacks and roll that seperate. This attack deals multiple wounds (D6)

Netlobber is a Stone thrower with S 1(3), units hit suffer from always strikes last until the End of the spiders NEXT turn (3 rounds of cc totally). It may fire and move, but not march. Misfire means it just doesn't fire at all.

Shrine: +2 to channel for all friendly mages within 12", shaman on top gains Master of Lores

Fanatics: The same as before, only that they are counted as being in light cover.

Squigs: No characters may join squig herds.

Squig Rider
Cavallery, skirmishers. If you roll a triple 6 for movement, each squig causes impact hit (1)
Giant Cave Squig: A character mounted on a giant cave squig may join squig riders. Ig he does the unit may reroll their movement roll.

Squig fanatics:
S6, T4, W3.
They move 3D6 inches until they come in contact wit a unit. From there on they act like fanatics. Counting to be in light cover.

Work like fanatics, only that they deal 2D6 S6 armourpiercing attacks.


Trolls: Same as before
Stone Trolls: 5+ scaly save, MR (2)

River Trolls: as befor.

Snotlings: Special Coice.
Boom shroom: Boom shrooms are a thrown wapon that hits automatically and ignores armour saves.

snotling chariot
several upgrades, like dealing stronger impact hits, first impact hits ignore armour saves, more movement, etc.

Gorbad Ironclaw

His wapon grant him ASF, ignores Armour saves and causes multiple wounds (d3)
Works as General and BSB within 18 inches all the time
you may field as many biguns as you want with gorbad
as long as he lives all units within 18 inches from him get a bonus of his current wounds on their rolls on the animosity chart.

Azhag
Lvl 3 Wizard using lore of death
all orcs within 18 inches of azhag have to reroll failed animosity checks

Wurzhag
Lvl 4 wizard
Furry Squig: may store up to 1 power or dispel dice per (regarding who's turn it is) to be used in the next magic phase. (either as a power or dispel dice)
Has MR (3) and may reroll miscast rolls.
5+ wardsave through his warpaint
His mask contains the spell "Destructive Glare", see magic section later on.

Wurrzagh's Fury: Curse spell, 8+. all enemy casters within 12 " have to roll 1 d6. They are removed from play with no saves allowed on a roll of 6, including their mounts. For each killd wizard Wurrzhag gains 1 die in his furry squig, and the capacity for stored dice is increased by 1.

Grom
no change, but he may declare a Waaagh which affects all Goblin infantry or cavallery in adition to all orc units.

Skarsnik
Skarsniks weapon contains a bound spell, level 5: Deals D3 S6 hits with no armour saves allowed. Increased to D6 hits if he'S within 12 " to a night goblin horde.

At the beginning of the game roll a D6 for each emeny unit. On a roll of 6 they are delayed and arrive in their owners 1st turn via reinforcements.

Nightgoblin Units that rallied after chosing 'flee' may move after regrouping, as if they were light cavallery.

Snagla Magotspitta
Spider Cavallery character. (he's a hero choice, not an upgrade.)
he has poisoned attacks and dals multiple wounds (D3) - he has a one time thrown weapon with the same rule.
He has to join a unit of spider cavallery. They get hatred (Imperium).

Gitilla the Hunta
Wolfrider Character
He and his unit of wolf riderz gain +1 BS and may reroll flee and persuit rolls.
HE has a Sultiple shots (3) Bow

Grimgore Ironhide
Looses 2 Attacks and drops in points. Same weapon, same armour.
He has a choppa (and therefor S8 in first round of combat...)
He may declare a Waaagh!
He has to join a unit of Black Orcs, and no other character may join that unit.
The unit gains hatred (everyone, every last of 'em) and increases it's weapon skill by 1 (yes, that's for free)


Magic

I'm sorry, I don't know casting values.

The small Waaagh!
Sneaky thievery: After a small waaagh spell is succesfully cast (and not dispelled), roll a D6. You gain 1 powerdice on a roll of 5+, while your oponnent loses a dispel dice. if he has no more dispel dice, this has no effect.

Base spell: Naughty Stabbing
targetted unit within 12 inches gains armour piercing attacks. In adition they may reroll hits and wounds when they attack an enemy in the flank or rear.

1st spell: Destructive Glare
magic missile, 24". Deals 2D6 S3 hits, or if boosted, 3D6 S3 hits.

2nd spell: Gift of the Spider God
targetted friendly unit gets poisoned attacks, or the effect of exsisting poison is increased to 5+.

3rd spell: Itching
Targetted enemy unit reduces it's Movement and Initiative characteristics by D6 (minimum of 1). Units with the random movement rule reduce the dice rolled to determine their movement by D3 (and still suffer D6 penalty on their I score)

4: Gork will fix it:
Targeted enemy unit has to reroll all To hit, to wound and armour saves of 6.

5: Nightshroud.
casters unit is treated as being in light cover. All enemy units getting in b2b ontact with the affected unit have to take a test for dangerous terrain. May be expanded to all friendly units within 12".

6: Bad Moon's Curse
RiP, Magic Whirl. 3" template, moved 4D6 in a straight line away from the caster in a direction of his chosing. All models touched by the template have to pass a test on the following characteristic, or louse one wound with no AS allowed (roll a D6 to determine the characteristic):
1-2: Initiative
3-4: toughness
5-6: strength.
May be boosted to 5" template and characteristic of the wizard's chosing.


Big Waagh!
As long as there are more Orc units in CC than there are fleeing Orc units the strength characteristic of all spells from the big Waaagh is increased by 1.

Base Spell: Mork (or Gork)'s gaze: Draw a 4D6" line away from the caster. Each model touched suffers a S4 hit. May be boosted to 6D6

1st spell: Brainbursta: Pick one enemy model within LoS and 18". Targetted model gains 1 S5 hit. May boost range.

2nd spell: Gorks Fists: Caster gains +3A, +3 S and 6+ ward save. RiP.

3rd spell: Gorks hand:
Pick one model from the frst rank of targetted friendly unit. Place it with alignement of your chosing within 3D6 inches of former location, and arrange the unit in same formation around it. May be boosted to 5D6.

4th spell: Headbutt
Targeted enemy caster within 4D6 inches suffers a S4 multiple wounds (D3) hit withou AS. Range may be boosted to 6D6.

5th spell: Let's get going:
Affacts all friendly orc units within "d& inches. They may reroll to hit rolls in Close combat.

6th spell: Gorks Feet.
Place the Gork's Feet template (yes, it's back.) within 36 inches of the shaman, and scatter it D6 inches. all touched models suffer a S6 hit that causes multiple wounds (D3)

afterwards, roll a D6.
1: Gork Slippes (or was shoved by Mork) and stomps upon one of your own units
2-3: Gork Wanders off (spell ends)
4+: stomp again (either a different unit, or the same one.)

Haven't been through the items yet, and my head is killing me. Enjoy =)

Spider looks real cool but unless there's some sort of new howda rule where you can only hit one crew with a template weapon it's going to be useless on the table when one cannon ball kills all 10 goblins riding in it with one shot.

Da Boss wrote:So, I see some people have seen the book.
Hit me, if you would: What is the story with Animosity? How much control am I going to have over my dudes?

carmachu wrote:

dienekes96 wrote:I am thrilled it is in hardcover. Gets rid of the riffraff playing the game, and classes up the local gaming scene.

Maybe if you really wanted to class up the gaming scene, you should lose some weight, and take a shower and use deoteriant. Justa thought.

catharsix wrote:as for that big spider, all i can say is...

HO-LY SHIP... want very badly.

that thing is going to be my Tervigon. to heck with the conversion kits, super-expensive Russian models, and converting Carifexes. that thing was MADE to be spawning little gaunts. totally gonna pre-order that.

-C6

schadenfreude wrote:As a night gobbo player the rumors of 2 point gobbos with spears, improved animosity, and our own magic lore have me looking forward to the new book.

I am even happy about the prospect of malfunctioning spear chukas. That should bring the price down and make them even cheaper.

schadenfreude wrote:...wanting orcs and gobbos to be as orderly as elves and dwarves is waac.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:...wanting orcs and gobbos to be as orderly as elves and dwarves is waac.

Except that it's not. Please put down your label maker machine

You're forgetting that having an army that often doesn't do what you want to it do, turn after turn, game after game can actually be not at all fun to play. And if someone isn't having fun, then why would they want to continue playing that army. That doesn't make them waac either.

Kroothawk wrote:
Creating more imaginative games for those who can afford the higher price, leaving those behind who can't afford it (or never start it because of the even higher entry hurdle). But to be honest, GW has never been concerned about losing customers, they were content if the remaining customers roughly paid the same money for less products. Lucky are those veterans who already own such big armies (gathered over years) and now only have to buy the army book and maybe a few new shineys.

Kroothawk wrote:On the army book:

NAVARRO wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:On the army book:

Looking at that page design I do hope the rest of the book is a bit more 2011 and less past century Because that layout lets be honest, does not need colors Looks more like a printable pdf than a harback with all the sweet stuff... Well maybe it was just a bad page example...

dienekes96 wrote:

carmachu wrote:

dienekes96 wrote:I am thrilled it is in hardcover. Gets rid of the riffraff playing the game, and classes up the local gaming scene.

Maybe if you really wanted to class up the gaming scene, you should lose some weight, and take a shower and use deoteriant. Justa thought.

Son, I look like a cross between Ivan Drago and Hugh "muthaeffing" Jackman, and I smell like a unicorn fart. The rest of the gaming scene needs to man up to my high standards.

NAVARRO wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:On the army book:
Snip

Looking at that page design I do hope the rest of the book is a bit more 2011 and less past century Because that layout lets be honest, does not need colors Looks more like a printable pdf than a harback with all the sweet stuff... Well maybe it was just a bad page example...

skrulnik wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:On the army book:
Snip

Looking at that page design I do hope the rest of the book is a bit more 2011 and less past century Because that layout lets be honest, does not need colors Looks more like a printable pdf than a harback with all the sweet stuff... Well maybe it was just a bad page example...

That's pretty much the whole book.
Most of the color art is old army book covers, and box covers.
I don't remember any new full page art. Lots of new page filler art though.
.

Da Boss wrote:Oh, okay. So with Animosity now, most of the time, you can still charge. That's alright then. I retract my previous whinge.

Da Boss wrote:As to magic items and so on, I am hopeful that with Animosity having less impact, we will need them less.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

Spider looks real cool but unless there's some sort of new howda rule where you can only hit one crew with a template weapon it's going to be useless on the table when one cannon ball kills all 10 goblins riding in it with one shot.

Dont want to really go over old ground with this post, but it will be fine.
Spider has 8 wounds, so a single cannon wont do the job.
Crew cant be hit.
However, a great shaman using one as a mount gets hit on a 5-6 (spider on 1-4)

So yea, you will lose the shaman, but crew go down when the bug dies, and no sooner.




TBH, the thing that really gets to me is Wurrzag losing spleenripper :(
He needs mobility!
Granted he can now go 1 to 1 with teclis and best him, while killing off most monsters in a single spell, but thats not the point!
He is missing his boar, and wizzbang (his squig, the previous tribe elder that cast him out) has now no longer got a name :K
GW needs to add to things, not take them away.


Either way, at 290 points a spider ill be taking 2 as my rares.
Ill pass on a 3rd for a shaman though, since i rather take wurrzag.
Can now also afford to get more savages, since i have 40 metal now. (wanted around 100, but price and weight dont help thier cause)

Karon wrote:
8 dollars more, and I get a gakload more of durability, and full color? With minimally more weight? Sign me up!

Games Workshop wrote:On the Tabletop
Arachnarok Spiders are utterly devastating on the battlefield. Not only do they fight with 8 Poisoned Attacks at Strength 5, but the eight Forest Goblins can also get stuck in from the howdah on its back... and then it can Thunderstomp! That alone is enough to break the back of most regiments, but when you consider that it also has 8 Wounds, Toughness 6 and a 4+ armour save, it has some serious staying power too. Being a (particularly large and gribbly) spider, it has a Movement of 7 and the Obstacle Strider, Forest Strider, Wall-crawler and Swiftstrider special rules, making it as fast as most heavy cavalry, but infinitely more deadly.

Use your Arachnarok Spiders to:
Outflank the Enemy: Their combination of speed and ability to easily traverse terrain makes an Arachnarok Spider far more than just a blunt weapon to hurl at the enemy. It's true that such a powerful monster can overwhelm most regiments on its own, but why fight fair when you can flank them and fight dirty instead? It's what a Goblin would do.

Hunt Enemy Monsters: With a multitude of Poisoned Attacks and the Immune to Psychology special rule, an Arachnarok Spider makes an exceptional monster hunter. And if that's not enough, the Venom Surge rule means that one of its attacks can cause D6 wounds - easily enough to down the hardiest of creatures. There are very few models in the game that can fight such a powerful creature and survive, so why let them? And just think of the bragging rights you'll earn if you manage to strike the finishing blow with one of your Goblin crew.

Carry your Goblin Great Shaman: An Arachnarok Spider can be taken as a mount for a Goblin Great Shaman. Not only does this unlock access to the Catchweb Spidershrine (and the Loremaster special rule for your Great Shaman), but provides great protection for your fragile spell caster by virtue of deterring your enemy from attacking him and consequently engaging his fearsome mount.

Watch out for:
Cannons: It may sound obvious, but a cannonball will cause your pride and joy no end of grief. If you face enemy cannons in battle, try to cling to the terrain as best as possible, taking advantage of your ability to easily traverse such awkward ground. If the worst comes to the worst and your enemy has a clear shot, just be grateful that your spider starts the game with so many Wounds.

Powerful Characters: On paper, an Arachnarok Spider can dish out a world of pain, but if you face an enemy character with a really good armour save, your model's Strength of 5 may not be enough to cause them much trouble. Some powerful characters can also hit really hard, or worse, cause Multiple Wounds. Such heroes will see off your spider in short order if you're too reckless with your choice of targets. Your spider is certainly tough, but remember that it's far from invincible.

It's good that the goblin crew are apparently immune to damage but it still won't last. Maybe with two one will make it to combat but 600 points for that doesn't seem well spent.

Minsc wrote:So, if I'm getting right the character rumors:

BOrcs are going up in points, and the only gain they get is... default of wearing Heavy Armor. Savage Orcs are predominantly raising in points / staying consistent, but it's minor price changes where they do exist. Common Orcs are going down in points.

Goblin prices are going down predominantly, with about ten points lost for each Lord Shaman type and the Lord Warboss-types almost being halved in points (assuming 'Seer didn't mean Big Boss prices), with untold prices on Goblin Big Bosses.


I imagine a few Savage Orc-level heroes with either the Shrunken 'Ead or some Magic Resistance items from the BRB to booster Savage Orc mob Ward Saves (since the Spirit Totem's gone). With the MR2 Magic Item on one character, and the +1 Ward Save on another, you're looking at a 5+ Default Ward on the SOrcs, with a 3+ Ward versus magical direct-damage attacks. If you are using a 30-strong unit with these upgrade, it should be akin to about a 2.5 point / model upgrade for the unit to have this - not too bad, all things considered. If you increase it up to forty, for some odd reason (maybe it's a very large point game), it drops to only two points / model in addition.

I can readily see Savage Orcs trading out non-Big 'Un regular Orcs in short order, due to Frenzy and the Warpaint advantages versus magic with the loss of the Spirit Totem Dispel Dice.

Prevalence of Orc Arrers, this edition, is probably going to drop. With a point increase (seven points a model! That's just a point shy of an Empire Crossbowman!), but no stat increase (and, worse, a Champion that's only +1BS [from the rumors] instead of +1S, +1WS, and +1A), they aren't worth their points in most instances. If you do see Orc Arrers, it'll probably be as a house to some Shaman you intend to keep back from the main lines.

Mr Mystery wrote:Had a good trawl through the book, and the rumours you post is constructed from aren't entirely accurate. Certainly, Savage Orcs have gone down in points.. Arrer Boyz seem like something of a Bargain to me, once you factor in Volley Fire, and Choppas. Nobody wants to face a unit which can vomit shots, and kick you in the pills.

Mr Mystery wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and the new Goblin upgrade (Sneaky Stabbers, or whatever they are called) are filth. They have ASF, and when revealed in the first round of combat (compulsory) they have killing blow. Sure, they are not great shakes beyond that...but seriously....their points cost. I know I can't post it up here, but if I said two thirds of fifty percent of feth all, in terms of what you actually get.......

Mr Mystery wrote:And Mangler Squigs make my moist in my special places......plus I can pimp Pump Wagons (ignore armour saves in the first round of combat? I should blimmin' well coco. KERRUNCH!)

Mr Mystery wrote:Oh, and 'Ere We Go is a dirty little spell from Big Waagh. Cast the spell, and pick a unit. Then roll either 3D6 or 5D6 depending on the level chosen. Take model from front of said unit, and position it anywhere within this range. Rest of the unit is formed up around the model in it's previous formation, with everyone where they were.

Yup. You got telly-porta Orcses!

Oh, and Savage Orc Boarboyz....they can fight with 2 Hand Weapons. However, if you take this option, you might want to keep them away from dangerous terrain....

Really cool book so far! Loads of stuff I forgot to look up (like you know....Wyverns and that).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, one last tidbit...the Choppa Rule, as mentioned, is any non-magical weapon held by a unit with the Choppa Rule. +1S in the first round of combat, whether charging or receiving.

Suddenly I'm seeing the appeal of a large block of Big'uns Stabbas....4 ranks of S5 filth anyone?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

ImperialTard wrote:When I read your first post my brain nearly shut down at seeing you post something not incredibly cynical. Glad you mulled it over and maintained the status quo.

No problem 'Tard.






Wow... that joke kinda wrote itself.

Da Butcha wrote:A question for anyone (lucky ) who has a chance to review the book:

I have loads of Spider Riders, and I love the new Arachnarok model (x3).

Are there options for filling the points between 2 Arachnaroks (in Rare), 1 Goblin Shaman on Arachnarok (as Lord) and loads of spider riders (as Core), with something else spider-related?

I'm not sure Goblin Big Bosses on Gigantic Spiders are still in the list (and I don't know if that would really be enough points), but it would be great if Goblin Heroes could ride regular Giant spiders (and sit safely in the Spider Rider units). Alternatively, is there any way to field Forest Goblins on foot? I know enough people just want the spider for conversion, so I can probably buy some plastic Forest Goblins, but is there still a Spider Banner or anything to make them something distinctive from regular Goblins on foot.

It's not going to be a awesome army in play, I think, but I already have a 2500 pt Orc army (no gobbos but crew), and a 2500 point Night Goblin army (only night goblins and squigs), so a 2500 point Forest Goblin army would be great, and would give me a good base of Forest Goblins if I wanted to mix up my Greenskins.

Buttlerthepug wrote: Other than normal goblins on foot and spider riders there sadly not much else in terms of spider units.

...

Needless to say there are plentiful ways you can convert an army to maintain a forest goblin theme while still packing 3 Arachnarok Spiders along with Spider Riders (including the hero special character on spider)

Da Butcha wrote:

Buttlerthepug wrote: Other than normal goblins on foot and spider riders there sadly not much else in terms of spider units.

...

Needless to say there are plentiful ways you can convert an army to maintain a forest goblin theme while still packing 3 Arachnarok Spiders along with Spider Riders (including the hero special character on spider)

So there's no option for a Goblin Big Boss/Shaman on Spider (other than the special character)?


Or is there a special character AND an option for regular characters on spiders?