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Post by: Muhahapu
Hey, I've seen this from somewhere!
why don't you post the whole army? It may be more effort, but I think you'll get a better response eh?
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Post by: Darth Bob
Okay. I can now say I've seen armies in all shapes and sizes.
Interesting concept...have any fluff?
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Post by: Nightwatch
Very interesting...though I'll sniff sadly every time I see your name on these forums...
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Post by: Sageheart
i like this idea! cool stuff!
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Post by: HF Izanagi
I'm not sure... am I missing something fluff-wise?  It's an interesting concept to say the least.
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Post by: crimsonmicc
It would be cool if your Hq character was an actual humanoid model that was levitating numerous small blocks off his base. A blockomancer if you will.
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Post by: gwaahr
the larger cubes on 40mm bases are my HQ chariots, the lord of change will be blockomancer style
heres the soul grinder
closeup of 'guts'
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Post by: devilution
I don't get it.
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Post by: UmbrellaLegion
I thought I wanted a unique army... I have been proven very, very, very wrong.
I like the idea, but I think it would be worth experimenting with other polyhedral shapes.
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Post by: BoyMac
Can you explain the reasoning as to why you wanted to make a chaos army themed like this? I am confused.
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Post by: InventionThirteen
This is full of artistic brilliance and wonderment. Very science fiction, very strange and totally awesome. I'm subscribing.
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Post by: Fafnir
Make sure you always have some creepy ambient music in the background whenever you play them. It looks like it'll be a really atmospheric army.
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Post by: The Good Green
I get it. I think it's AWESOME!
I will be watching. 
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Post by: gwaahr
If people dont get it i feel no obligation to provide an explanation - some people just wont.
but anyway, heres a tidbit,
from Thomas McEvilley's "13 ways of looking at a blackbird":
11. Content arising directly from the formal properties of the work.
"The formalist idea that abstract art lacks content is rightly seen today as archaic. It seems the associative and conceptualizing activities of the human mind go on constantly and transpire in an instant. thus we see everything within some frame of meaning. If perceptions truly had no content whatsoever they would be blank moments that would leave no trace in memory. At one level, formal configurations function as ontological propositions. Merely by shaping energy one models the real; every grasping or shaping is a rhetorical persuasion for a view of reality. Critics commonly have asserted that music has no content. But, for example, Beethoven is widely experienced as presenting a view of reality as stormy, turbulent and full of passionate arriving, while a Pollock drip painting asserts flux and indefiniteness of identity as qualities that can be found in the world. This tautological interface between form and content is not a mystical attempt to unify opposites. It simply means that a work demonstrates a type of reality by embodying it. Thus, abstract art, far from being non-representational, is, in effect, a representation of concepts; it is based on a process like that of metaphor, and overlaps somewhat with both iconography and representation."
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Post by: monkeytroll
Interesting idea, I'll keep an eye on this to see how it progresses.
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Post by: gwaahr
screamers
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Post by: Savnock
Brilliant. We have an abstract expressionist on Dakka. Well, it had to happen... Nice execution too. Each of the shapes you've chosen suggests the unit it's supposed to represent quite well: it's highly doubtful anyone will have counts-as issues after you've explained what everything is (unless they are either a tool or an art critic  )
Probably a good idea to keep all wargear (gifts, whatever) nice and simple to avoid memory issues all the same.
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Post by: Phayse
It's a treatise on the folly of perception, although McEvilley, lauded though he is doesn't provide the best of arguments. He's a better critic than he is a teacher.
In his book, he waffles on for 300ish pages about breaking down common consensus on what form is. "impossible Configuration" works well for Tzeentch, who is the master of change.
Though the form differs, who's to say they do not posess the same qualities as a flamer, a horror or a soul grinder? In one way, it's a winner as his medium is representative of a work of fiction (GW universes) so liberal interpretation is possible. But, and this is the same constant weakness for work of this form, there is already a consensus on how the entity should look.
He took the background (Tzeentch the changer, master of the impossible ) and gave it a different form.
It's kind of like arguing that my blue diiffers from your blue. Horribly fiendish.
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Post by: SoloFalcon1138
Another example of...
I mean they look cool and everything, but c'mon...
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Post by: gwaahr
Cheers Phayse.
heres another chariot
its hard to get a pic, but theres a little screamer type of block flying out of the centre.
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Post by: jackanory
Oh hell yeah, this is awesome! 
Probably the most original army concept I've ever seen. Also a lot more creepy than most SKULZ,CHAINZ,BLUDZ chaos armies Maximum respect from me.
Plus it must have been super cheap and quick to put together! Are they all complete then? Would be good to see them all together.
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Post by: gwaahr
ive built maybe 2 thirds of the army, but i need to revisit the basing because its pretty boring..
thinking of introducing an off yellow as a very rare secondary colour..
i like the dreamy pink and blues though..just might get too much of a zebra effect.
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Post by: ChocolateGork
A really amazing idea with a really amazing execution. I love it
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Post by: TomxJ
I like it.
But visually they have no sense of "place", something is only unusual if it differs from the norm, and in a fantasy world the common concensus is based on points of reference which might have to be explained to the viewer.
What about providing a contrasting point of reference against objects from the "normally perceived" world, such as battlefield detrius on the bases or as someone else has suggested a status quo centre piece, to really bring out just how weird these are and also provide a point of reference to us the observer.
Regards
Tom j
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Post by: kenshin620
Very...interesting. It does remind me of my days studying the forms of Cubism and Abstractionism. I might have to agree though that showing on the model/base that it does belong in 40k might make it look like it "belongs" more
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Post by: gwaahr
TomxJ wrote:I like it.
But visually they have no sense of "place", something is only unusual if it differs from the norm, and in a fantasy world the common concensus is based on points of reference which might have to be explained to the viewer.
What about providing a contrasting point of reference against objects from the "normally perceived" world, such as battlefield detrius on the bases or as someone else has suggested a status quo centre piece, to really bring out just how weird these are and also provide a point of reference to us the observer.
Regards
Tom j
Yeah cheers Tom, thats prettymuch what I had in mind for 'zazzing' up the bases. I also want to include some ruined hellenistic style sculptures, just like those scibor bases, but im broke so ill be sculpting them.
did a bit o painting on the screamers, gonna play more with smooth and rigid colour shifts.
 g
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Post by: jackanory
gwaahr wrote:
thinking of introducing an off yellow as a very rare secondary colour..
i like the dreamy pink and blues though..just might get too much of a zebra effect.
Personally, I think the two colours are enough. I think an extra colour would lose some of the uniformity you've got going on there...
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Post by: Tortured-Robot
I love the idea, and the way they turned out. The last image of the two screamers is beautiful.
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Post by: Leigen_Zero
All I can say is, lolwut?
I'd play a game against you, but good luck getting that army to pass mustard at a tourney/non-'my garage' gaming club/store!
I like the idea, and to be fair they are quite well made and painted but I still have to ask why?
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Post by: Perkustin
Nice terrain!
-_- Not sold on this, are you trolling to get as many people as possible to say poncey artistic stuff?
I do like them, they look cool it's just......
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Post by: jackanory
I guess a problem with having an original army like this is that you'll always be coming up against philistines.
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Post by: gwaahr
link didnt work before
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Post by: TheChronoTrigger
I don't believe it's a matter of "getting it" or not. Most of us here on dakka are artists of some sort. i think its the fact that this is also a game, along with a hobby. And an army like this wouldnt be allowed in some stores/tournaments. It would be like me bending some paperclips to look like a person and calling it a space marine, and justifying it by by calling it abstract.
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Post by: Redbeard
But the fact that it's a tzeentch army, where half the daemons in the force are supposed to be randomly shaped blobs of form, makes this very not the same as calling a paper-clip a space marine.
I like it.
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Post by: Warboss Gutrip
I like it...
But I get a strong 'I don't want to have to spend money on GW miniatures' vibe.
It is cool though.
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Post by: lukewild1982
What can I say but really really clever.
I will admit when I saw the first few pictures I really thought "oh dear god what is this person doing". Then I thought like i think a lot of people that are against this are thinking, that you were trying to be cheap make an army without paying for the models. Then I realised that there is no way this is your first or even second attempt at an army as its way too crazy an idea for someone who has not been into gaming for a good amount of time, so chances are you have paid your dues to the wargaming gods and spent plenty of cash over the years as we all have.
I was wondering, did the inspiration come from a random piece of melted polystyrene from a terrain project or something such as. I can sort of imagine someone doing something then noticing the deformed lump and getting the lightbulb glow over their head.
Great idea keep it up. I think the Lord/HQ controlling this army is what will pull it all together because creative/innovative it is, its still a bunch of floating cubes, it just needs that something to make sense of it all.
keep it up.
What other armies do you have out of curiosity?
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Post by: gwaahr
I have collected over 12 GW armies, and painted over a dozen commissioned ones. I used to participate in organized events and tournaments untill i grew tired of the scene and the direction the game was being taken.
Im currently undertaking my masters in fine art and now i just play in my garage and paint stuff for fun.
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Post by: lukewild1982
I assumed right then that there was no way this was not born of experience of the hobby.
Congratulations to you and long may it continue
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Post by: gloomygrim
I like em, there weird and i think fitting of tzeentch army. They have the "WTF IS THAT" factor.
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Post by: Redbeard
I keep wanting to paint a Modrian Iron Guard army. I don't know how many people will get the joke though.
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Post by: inmygravenimage
This is inspired and utterly, wonderfully, bizarely - chaotic.
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Post by: Ambull
At first I was confused, now I'm right on board - this is radical, brilliant, exciting and awesome all at once.
Even taken at face value without the concepts ushered into this from McEvilley and others, it's actually really disturbing. Recall a classic episode of Tom Baker-era Doctor Who: The Stones of Blood, where the major villains are simply giant stones that move about the countryside committing acts of total destruction and murder.
I would be terrified if I were a pack of marines seeing this army coming over the horizon. It's a total freakout. Keep going, can't wait to see a finished army shot.
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Post by: Malika2
I think this is one of the coolest and most original ideas I've seen in ages, you truly made the cubes look like actual demonic and almost alive entities. Keep up the good work!
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Post by: Perkustin
This:
gwaahr wrote:the larger cubes on 40mm bases are my HQ chariots, the lord of change will be blockomancer style
heres the soul grinder
This is the only reason i am not sold on them, there's something about above post that i find lacks credibility. I think they look cool and have no problem with cubes being horrors but soul grinder?!
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Post by: xtceze
This is the only 40k army thats has ever legitimately creeped me out....
The image in my head of an endless tide of glowing cubes, destroying everything in their path, its almost too much.
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Post by: Boss Salvage
I stalked your photobucket for years man, and you've inspired at least one army of mine (faceless, tentacular Tau). It's wonderful to sort of officially see your stuff on a forum, you couldn't have chosen a more interesting army to unleash upon Dakka  But I get a strong 'I don't want to have to spend money on GW miniatures' vibe.
Not trying to flame, but IMO that's hilarious - Salvage
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Post by: morgendonner
Seems like something from an episode of Star Trek TOS.
Cool project, I dig the idea as long as it's just for casual play.
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Post by: TomxJ
Yeah cheers Tom, thats prettymuch what I had in mind for 'zazzing' up the bases. I also want to include some ruined hellenistic style sculptures, just like those scibor bases, but im broke so ill be sculpting them.
Those ruined statue bases would be a great contrast. Semiotically Using faces as a point of reference to justify how weird these things are is a fanstatic move. Metaphocally a destroyed civilisation being dominated by a seemingly random force also works nicely given the context of the 40k universe.
btw have you seen what looks like a Rick Griffin inspired Tzeentch army?
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220124&highlight=eyes+tzeentch
Regards
Tom j
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Post by: Samus_aran115
Wow. That's...original 
I like it a lot though! It IS tzeetch!
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Post by: Phayse
Perkustin wrote:This:
gwaahr wrote:the larger cubes on 40mm bases are my HQ chariots, the lord of change will be blockomancer style
heres the soul grinder
This is the only reason i am not sold on them, there's something about above post that i find lacks credibility. I think they look cool and have no problem with cubes being horrors but soul grinder?!
I agree, on a larger scale, it's more difficult to get away with it, but more abstract forms might detract from the theme. Maybe incorporate something into the interior of the cube? It's already partially open, so maybe some kind of ravening maw?
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Post by: lukewild1982
One thing I really want to know is how you go about doing them, I can guess for the most part but things like to soulgrinder being open and having this molten oozing quality, although I have an idea in my head you could have done this a number of way. A good description of your methods would be great and maybe even a few pictures to better show the processes
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Post by: alphaomega
I think it all works.
I would love to play against a force like this. I have issues with the plastic horrors and many of the other Tzneetch models. This is chaos given a solid form.
Excellent portrayal of change and madness.
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Post by: Phayse
lukewild1982 wrote:One thing I really want to know is how you go about doing them, I can guess for the most part but things like to soulgrinder being open and having this molten oozing quality, although I have an idea in my head you could have done this a number of way. A good description of your methods would be great and maybe even a few pictures to better show the processes
Poly Cement. Melts on contact and turns it all into a viscous goo. My guess is the two halves were introduced to each other after application, and carefully teased apart to form the threads you can see.
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Post by: tylermenz
Interesting, I'll give you that. Executed nicely.
But i can't help but think the idea would be better suited to a book. Something like HP Lovecraft where the imagery is always vaguely hidden behind veils of horror. Sight unfortunately dispels that imagery and unknown.
Personally I think that miniatures are inherently a little more concrete, and that our hobby is a little bit less tolerant of the abstract.
Your army speaks more of laziness than cheapness to me. Although the formless blobs are nice, the execution is inherently simplistic, and the painting shows little technical skill. Your explanation of abstract art just seems like artistic snobbery to me.
Your qoute "If people dont get it i feel no obligation to provide an explanation - some people just wont. "
Leaves me with an ill taste in my mouth. Of course you will no doubt say that abstract art is not about skill or technique, but I would counter that Miniature Hobbying is about skill and technique.
I leave you with an image that I think shows the abstractness of Tzeentch, gives a slight taste of horror, and at the same time remains concrete.
By CMON user mazk7130
*Edit* its not a B&W photo
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Post by: Sageheart
i would def fix up the bases, maybe even have a dead marine here and there, but i still am loving this.
only issue i might have is weapon layouts on things such as a soul grinder, if you can have some sort of way to have weapons on these blocks, not necessarily 40k weapons, but some sort of count as system that way i can see where the weapons are etc.
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Post by: jackanory
tylermenz wrote:I would counter that Miniature Hobbying is about skill and technique.
Says who?
Anyway, I would counter that OP has shown real skill and technique in this army.
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Post by: Austragalis
It would be creepy as feth to be attacked by an army of abstract geometry. Too bad you can't make any non-euclidean shapes, eh?
I totally like the idea that a Tzeentch army would be a horde of formless blobs. It's very unsettling.
Obviously, there may be problems on the battlefield, mainly with your opponents not being able to keep track of which unit is which. Some particularly beardy players may even refuse to play against such an army (but on the other hand, the most extreme among those won't even play against overly-converted models).
Creatively, I feel like it might be "too" cubey. Like, maybe your greater daemon could be a pyramid (although, the blockomancer idea is really cool).
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Post by: Ambull
From past work one can tell that gwaahr is NOT lazy.
Some people will be down with it, some won't. I applaud this awesome army and concept.
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Post by: Mr Nobody
This fits Tzeentch perfectly, completely incomprehensible.
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Post by: xlightscreen
mmm not sure what to think of them.
Reading the thread yes abstract art does require a explanation. If a artist can't explain his actions then what separates this from "Hey guys I melted a couple of cubes and put them on bases!" As much as I would like to agree with the tidbit you posted.
As for the army itself yes it is very Tzeentch. I probably like your screamers the best. the pink horrors could use a little bit more character to them. The chariots are decent as well. the Soul grinder is a bit to far fetch since its built by a different faction other then Tzeentch himself.
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Post by: Perkustin
@Tylermenz cheers for pointing this out:
gwaahr wrote:If people dont get it i feel no obligation to provide an explanation - some people just wont
Proceeds to quote something or other
I can't believe you wrote that..... I get it, i just don't dig it personally, deal with it, keep what the lecturers Taught you for the Essay bro.
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Post by: Phayse
tylermenz wrote:
Your qoute "If people dont get it i feel no obligation to provide an explanation - some people just wont. "
Leaves me with an ill taste in my mouth.
I dunno. I get where he's coming from. I had a module back in uni, and got sick of explaining the principles behind a piece of work to my flatmates. It made sense to them once they'd had the walkthrough, but you kind of get burned out after the 5th or so time of giving the blow-by-blow. It's not snobbery, it's just too much brain warping.
Abstract art and other similar schools are definitely something for people with an ingrained love of art, as it's often nonsensical without knowing the whys and wherefores. It's not due to snobbery that it isn't accessible, it just relies a lot more on background knowledge and thoughts. It's kind of like trying to somersault before you can walk - something that you tend to get into once the foundation principles are known.
Apart from Grayson Perry. He's just bonkers. ( Awesome win point: My wife became friends with Phillipa Perry after being followed on twitter by her - that unveiling in manchester a few weeks back? Went. Hobnobbed. Enjoyed.)
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Post by: Fiend
I was skeptical of this idea at first, but after examining the models and and realizing they are creations of the warp, I am impressed. I want to play against this army. The models are great representations of the incomprehensibility of the warp. Why would the create anything recognizable?
Of course many wouldn't play against this army because it is akin to 'these bits of rotting flesh is my Nurgle army,' but nevertheless is does make sense. Matters of laziness or 'non-GW' parts don't matter to me as I play for the story and this makes a great story. Heck, I might even play that Nurgle army if there weren't sanitation issues.
Also, I am a very un-artsy person. The fact that I've even painted my army has impressed me.
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Post by: TheChronoTrigger
I'd have to agree whole heartedly with tylermez and xlightscreen. Especially about the soulgrinder not being from tzeentch himself. Also if these are to represent ever changing form then it would be nice to at least see different shapes, or maybe convert one to appear as if it is coming out of the warp, perhaps some gs tendrils or a few arms flailing. It just seems they lack character, they appear fragile, not frightening like demons would appear.
I do however feel your soulgrinder is your strongest piece yet, because it has that melting and changing facet, and you can almost see faces coming out of it. If you could capture that essence in all the pieces i would be more okay with it.
But this is one of those armies where you will absolutely hate it or completely love it, like a Tarentino movie
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Post by: CadianXV
First impression: This is the laziest idea I have ever seen. Maybe cool for one mini, but a whole army? Pff. No way.
On reviewing: Actually, this is kind of cool.
2nd review: This is an awesome idea. Simple, innovative, and well executed.
3rd review: Oh....oh god no.... I can see faces in the polystyrene. They're... they're calling me......
Please...no,please!...NO.... NOOOOOOOO......!
*Brain melts into a cube*
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Post by: neil101
cool army i love it , the shapes have some nice contours etc, and very surreal and chaos.
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Post by: Darth Bob
If it were anything other than Tzeentch, I'd be like "No way." However, I think you've hit the nail right on the head as far as the style of The Changer of Ways.
One thing I think I would do is incorporate some of the "change" element, however. Maybe add some random eyes or miscelaneous appendages sprouting from the cubes, just to add a more Daemonic look to some of them.
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Post by: gwaahr
Why does 'change' always get interpreted as being random appendages, mouths and eyeballs popping out every which way?
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Post by: MajorTom11
Isn't this project over a year old? I remember seeing this entire army, painted, it was a point of a 'is this art??' thread somewhere else? I am a bit surprised to see it presented as if it just started???
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Post by: Darth Bob
gwaahr wrote:Why does 'change' always get interpreted as being random appendages, mouths and eyeballs popping out every which way?
Because such abominations and random anatomies are inherent in that which Chaos is so accustomed; the idea mutation and the warping of the body and soul.
I get what you're going for, and I think it's a fantastic idea, but the cubes don't look nearly Chaotic enough. They look like a floating variant of the Gelatinous Cubes from D&D. Making them look more Daemonic, since thats what they are, would not only add to the look of the army, but also divulge from the "It's a bunch of floating cubes" look. It makes more sense that minions of Tzeentch would be ever changing and take on various forms that would be both disturbing and frightening to the mortal races. I think a block of flesh with the surface of it changing and morphing with appendages and the like every-which-way is not only more terrifying and disturbing than a porous pink cube, but also more Daemonic and in-line with Chaos and Tzeentch.
Take my advice or don't, but I think the cubes are a bit plain. The other models look great as-is, but the Horrors look like blocks of Jello.
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Post by: xlightscreen
 I can believe in!
Sorry couldn't resist >.<
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Post by: gwaahr
The army isnt fully painted, or even built yet..
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Post by: Darth Bob
http://forums.tauonline.org/project-logs/79825-cubes-tzeentch.html According to this thread you started this project sometime last year. Is there a particular reason you're making it look like you just started it on the 22nd?
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Post by: tylermenz
Warboss Gutrip wrote:I like it...
But I get a strong 'I don't want to have to spend money on GW miniatures' vibe.
It is cool though.
Ambull wrote:I like it...
From past work one can tell that gwaahr is NOT lazy.
Two qoutes from a familiarly named "Waargh" on Tau Online, about this same army (or at least one which has the exact same models, concept, and pictures) from just under a year ago.
"Basically I want to make the cheapest and quickest army possible just for club games."
"and I want a free army"
The Chariot was cool, defending your idea as artistic and and unique without mentioning that that isn't the reason you made it....but that you just happened to want an army and had Styrofoam laying around...i don't even know what to say.
On a side note, did anyone else think of the Umbra from Xenology?
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Post by: gwaahr
I dont see why this is an issue for you.
I started building the army midway through last year, I dont think I even had an account on dakka at that stage. Before I could make much progress with the project I had to put it on hold to focus on writing and exhibiting for uni. I now have more spare time and have started work on the army again. So I made a thread on dakka about it to reach a broader international audience while i work on finishing the army off.
+edit+
And for the record, I DO want a 'free' army. And I dont think there is anything wrong with that having been my initial impetus for making this army, its come a long way, and im excited about where im planning on taking it.
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Post by: Darth Bob
I just don't see why you didn't make it clear that this army was started before. Because, going by your other thread, none of your "updates" are really updates at all. They're just models you finished months ago and are recycling in your Dakka thread. Why not just say "I started this army last year, here's what I've done so far" and then add new stuff instead of adding stuff you've already done. It's like saying "I've had a model 100% finished and posted on other sites for a year, but I'm going to post WIP shots for days before actually showing content that I already had ready to show back when I started the topic." It's just a little...I dunno, odd. It's not so much an issue as much as I don't understand why you did it. I certainly hope to see some new models now. Cheers!
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Post by: InventionThirteen
gwaahr wrote:I have collected over 12 GW armies, and painted over a dozen commissioned ones. I used to participate in organized events and tournaments untill i grew tired of the scene and the direction the game was being taken.
Im currently undertaking my masters in fine art and now i just play in my garage and paint stuff for fun.
Big ups on undertaking a masters. I'm currently in my last year of a fine arts degree here in that little island New Zealand. I am contemplating taking a masters on but I am unsure if I have come to the right understanding required yet. Very fine army by the way, reminds me of a Hoffman painting.
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Post by: gwaahr
because im using my girlfriends mac(which im yet to fully grasp) and our internet sucks and keeps dropping out? i had to update pics in dribs and drabs over a couple of hours yesterday.
I chose to present the pictures with as little information as possible simply to let people on dakka come at it fresh. And honestly, i didnt think about it that much, its not a calculated attack, its just a modelling diary.
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Post by: Darth Bob
gwaahr wrote:because im using my girlfriends mac(which im yet to fully grasp) and our internet sucks and keeps dropping out? i had to update pics in dribs and drabs over a couple of hours yesterday.
I chose to present the pictures with as little information as possible simply to let people on dakka come at it fresh. And honestly, i didnt think about it that much, its not a calculated attack, its just a modelling diary.
Alright, I meant no offense, it was a simple question, there's no reason to get defensive. A little common civility and a good attitude will get you far here on Dakka. The opposite will not. Likewise, when someone gives you some constructive criticism, don't ignore it or get offended. Simply look at it with an open mind (like so many of us here have with your Cubes of Tzeentch; some more than others), analyze and explain why that criticism or suggestion seems off to you. Instead of saying "I feel no need to explain myself to you", a very arrogant and pompous approach to a civil conversation, approach the criticism with empathy and you will find that you not only make less enemies, but you may also end up improving your army beyond even what you thought possible.
This is a great army and you have a great idea, but everything has room for improvement. The Dakka community is here to give you our ideas and support, so don't just brush off a critique as an attack on your artistic freedom. I personally love this army and I think it would be alot of fun to play against. It's also very inspirational to those who maybe don't have alot of money at the moment and/or want an army or a few units that are different. I commend you for being unique, but don't let your quest for uniqueness cause you to shut out and get in a turtle shell every time someone has a critique or suggestion.
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Post by: jackanory
xlightscreen wrote:
Reading the thread yes abstract art does require a explanation.
No, not at all. Some artists may chose to present their own interpretation of their work to the viewer but there's no reason why they shouldn't let the viewers interpret it all for themselves. In fact there's no reason for the artist's personal interpretation to be any more valid than any other viewer's. Once the work is complete, the artist is just another viewer of the piece.
Oh and:
gwaahr wrote:
Why does 'change' always get interpreted as being random appendages, mouths and eyeballs popping out every which way?
So true!
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Post by: Scarper
I wish there was a karma system on Dakka - the above would get some serious positives from me. (Frig, the above being Darth Bob. You ninja, Jackanory!  )
Nice work with the cubes though - really original idea, and really fitting for Tzeench! I like them as they are - I think tentacles and such would ruin their simplicity and surrealism.
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Post by: MajorTom11
We aren't accusing you of anything btw, there is nothing to be gained or lost either way, unless of course you are posting someone else's work, which I don't think you are anyways.
Just odd, I actually was a huge proponent of yours in a thread discussing this finished army last year, defending it as a wonderfully original, perfectly in character yet unique and well executed idea. I did say that a little more variety in Geometry would have helped, and also having multiple mini cubes orbiting the chariot for instance would have been cool. But overall, I was very impressed.
I do distinctly remember seeing a large, painted army. Forgive us for wondering out loud what is going on, but I've been a pretty avid Dakka reader for a while now and this is the first time I have seen someone re-present something as new before.
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Post by: gwaahr
Your memory must be hazy, because the army is sitting over there on the shelf looking back at me in unpainted mockery.
Im planning on doing a second batch of horrors that have varying degrees of distortion/dissolution, to be interspersed throughout all the units to zazz them up. Im thinking a few mini-diorama type of things like the 'unit filler' thing used in fantasy armies. Id like to include at least one minidiorama of a cube attacking a human of some kind, just for a visual reference for the more discriptively inclined.
At first I was pretty hesitent to make the cubes any more representative, but now after having put the project on hiatus ive warmed to the idea of putting as much concerted effort into the modelling/painting as I would any other army. I had 2 commission armies on the go at the time of inception, so the cubes began as a fun side project away from all that.
Im currently painting up horrors, going with softer colour shifts like the screamers, albiet with a few outright rigid blue|pink shifts thrown in too. It just seems more chaosy, y'know?
oh yeah and hey im not that lazy guys, sometimes i get around to doing things, like i built this squiggoth in 2006/...or 07...or something, cant remember
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Post by: Medium of Death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia
This is great. Loving the more broken down cubes, especially the hollow ones.
Any ideas for the 'blockomancer'? Perhaps him sitting within a larger cube, almost like a throne?
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Post by: gwaahr
probably more like silver surfer/penitent engine/tool music video
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Post by: Ambull
I love how much this thread is ruffling feathers. It's really creating a fascinating discussion, I don't think anyone's really being offensive: there are many challenges with this project, on gwaahr's end as the creator and on our end as the audience and the viewers of the final product.
Let's all keep an open mind as we anticipate more updates.
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Post by: SoloFalcon1138
I am not degrading the craftsmanship or the creativity, but if I played this army, outide of the Pink and Blue Horrors, I'd be constanty asking which is which. Especially if two units happened to collide in battle, I wouldn't know which I was targeting. And if you're going for anything to pay in a tournament, you may be able to argue that the 50-60% GW rule could be referring to net weight, and a lot of these "minis" are probably lighter than their GW bases, so maybe?
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Post by: Savnock
It would be truly hilarious if you added bits of GW figs to the bases as battle detritus, and those weighed enough to make your army tournament legal.
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Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
It took me a while to figure out why this seemed familiar, other than in a generic Lovecraftian sort of way.
But I think what it reminds me of is Uzumaki. Just creepy and unsettling in a way that it really shouldn't be. And yet sounding just silly when you try to describe it to someone. Automatically Appended Next Post: Savnock wrote:It would be truly hilarious if you added bits of GW figs to the bases as battle detritus, and those weighed enough to make your army tournament legal.
I do feel like it definitely needs some baseline to contrast the abstract nature of the horrific beings. Horrified Guardsmen being driven insane for no conceivable reason just because these horrors from beyond the veil of reality are around, things like that.
Hell, you could make a whole project out of the basing. One looking like he's rocking back and forth holding his knees and weeping. One holding his head in pain. One standing limp with a vacant look on his face. One with blood streaming down his face because he just gouged out his own eyes. One with his laspistol in his mouth.
Lots of possibilities here.
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Post by: Santobell
It's an interesting idea, youcan get some very chaotic shapes form melting foam and plastics like this.
Personally I would like to see some wailing faces in the trailing mass behind the screamers etc.
Lost souls traped in the every changing blah blah chaos lingo (sorry not a huge chaos follower), but certainly a well thought out army I guess I'm just looking
for something to link it to the game system some more something a little more tangable.
On the plus side floating cubes can be used cross game system from frightening space fleets, to shifty football players and relentless faceless soldiers.
An "A" for effort all round, perhaps with the addition of a blockomancer it'll get that tye in it seems to scream for.
Maybe call him Q-bert the shape lord?
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Post by: UmbrellaLegion
You, sir, have inspired me. Perhaps it is for the better or for the worse, but I've had an idea for Nurglings that were piles of simple slime, and someone told me to make them from clay.
You have convinced me to build a clay Nurgle army!
A glorious testiment to the mucous and viscous gunk of Granddaddy Nurgle!
Thank you, Gwaahr.
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Post by: em_en_oh_pee
I will be damned if I am not tempted to try something like this myself, as it looks fun to do! Very inspiring!
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Post by: oadie
tylermenz wrote:Interesting, I'll give you that. Executed nicely [Eh... I'll withhold judgment, for the time being].
But i can't help but think the idea would be better suited to a book. Something like HP Lovecraft where the imagery is always vaguely hidden behind veils of horror [Honestly, I've never gotten the Lovecraft love. Something about the execution ruining the concept, like is mentioned next, only the words provide the concept-killing image. "Look! An unspeakable, indescribable terror that is terrifying because it is unspeakable and indescribable!"]. Sight unfortunately dispels that imagery and unknown.
Personally I think that miniatures are inherently a little more concrete, and that our hobby is a little bit less tolerant of the abstract.
[snipped a section I don't fully agree with] Your explanation of abstract art just seems like artistic snobbery to me [Agreed, 100%. That's not a snobbery knock, though. Without snobbery, there wouldn't be any purely academic disciplines left. Doesn't mean it won't occasionally make you want to stuff their cashmere scarves down their esoteric little throats.].
Your qoute "If people dont get it i feel no obligation to provide an explanation - some people just wont. "
Leaves me with an ill taste in my mouth. [Your idea, your "models," your business. Doesn't mean you don't deserve some flak for scoffing at the peasants. I'd expect more cries of "insubstantial artsy piddling" to come from your words than from the general concept or the models.] Of course you will no doubt say that abstract art is not about skill or technique, but I would counter that Miniature Hobbying is about skill and technique.
I leave you with an image that I think shows the abstractness of Tzeentch, gives a slight taste of horror, and at the same time remains concrete [Man, that thing is cool.].
By CMON user mazk7130
*Edit* its not a B&W photo
This post sums up a lot of my reactions. I've added notes where I deemed necessary.
This army simultaneously reminds me how much I enjoy thinking outside the box (ducks incoming barrage of pun-hate imbued produce) and why I want to blot out the latter half of the twentieth century in every generalized textbook on art history, ever - the invasion of what I like to call "modernist fappery." It's relatively satisfying, as a mental exercise, to explain/"justify" this kind of stuff, but that only takes me so far. The concepts are far more interesting than the execution in pretty much every case. It's rather akin to my view of formal logic - it's interesting enough to play around with the concepts and the system, but it only seems to have any significance within its own sphere. Eh, maybe I'm just embittered, due to the topic being given a disproportionate amount of attention (measure it how you will - by quantity of works, popularity, influence, etc. It deserves mention and study. It doesn't deserve more than 2-3 lectures in an intro course.).
That's part of the reason why this doesn't work, for me, as an army. There are some cool looking melted forms, in there. The concept is interesting. I'm even happy to see a few physical pieces to really convey your concept. But as a full army for a tabletop wargame, this feels like a fun little mental exercise stretched way too thin.
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Post by: Yggdrasil
MajorTom11 wrote:We aren't accusing you of anything btw, there is nothing to be gained or lost either way, unless of course you are posting someone else's work, which I don't think you are anyways.
Just odd, I actually was a huge proponent of yours in a thread discussing this finished army last year, defending it as a wonderfully original, perfectly in character yet unique and well executed idea. I did say that a little more variety in Geometry would have helped, and also having multiple mini cubes orbiting the chariot for instance would have been cool. But overall, I was very impressed.
I do distinctly remember seeing a large, painted army. Forgive us for wondering out loud what is going on, but I've been a pretty avid Dakka reader for a while now and this is the first time I have seen someone re-present something as new before.
Hey, Tom, I had posted a thread in the DCM Mosh Pit about it, for this army had really caught my attention on this forum. That could explain why you had already seen the pics... And you had provided a good analysis of the matter, IIRC... Here it is : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/334234.page (sorry, DCM-only ha!) waargh, I'm glad you're back to it, that was a really "think out of the box" thread to me, and I really enjoyed it! Whatever motives you are, I don't think you have to be blamed upon by others! Our motivations are usually a mix of various elements, and the price of an army is probably taken more into account than not ( IG vehicles-spam, I'm looking at you). I don't have money problems, but if I could have an original army for free, I wouldn't mind!!! So keep up the good work!
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Post by: ChocolateGork
gwaahr wrote:Your memory must be hazy, because the army is sitting over there on the shelf looking back at me in unpainted mockery.
Im planning on doing a second batch of horrors that have varying degrees of distortion/dissolution, to be interspersed throughout all the units to zazz them up. Im thinking a few mini-diorama type of things like the 'unit filler' thing used in fantasy armies. Id like to include at least one minidiorama of a cube attacking a human of some kind, just for a visual reference for the more discriptively inclined.
At first I was pretty hesitent to make the cubes any more representative, but now after having put the project on hiatus ive warmed to the idea of putting as much concerted effort into the modelling/painting as I would any other army. I had 2 commission armies on the go at the time of inception, so the cubes began as a fun side project away from all that.
Im currently painting up horrors, going with softer colour shifts like the screamers, albiet with a few outright rigid blue|pink shifts thrown in too. It just seems more chaosy, y'know?
oh yeah and hey im not that lazy guys, sometimes i get around to doing things, like i built this squiggoth in 2006/...or 07...or something, cant remember
Thats..........Gnarly? (I love it)
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Post by: MajorTom11
That IS Gnarly! AwesomeSauce -
Gwaahr, you are quite right, it was much more recent than I thought that we saw it (Thanks for the reminder Ygssie!)
Here is what I wrote back in December, I must have been feeling particularly verbose that day lol, but it was an honest critique I hope you will find flattering/constructive for the new pieces you plan to add.
Um, I don't think there will be any hugely tangible artistic reference for these guys.
Were I to criticize this from my art and design backgrounds, I would say this, ahem -
The piece as a whole is competently executed and presented. It has taken a non-traditionalist route and leveraged simple cubes in form if not texture vs anthropomorphized (or states there-off) demonic representations. The effect as a whole is creepy, faceless and silent, somewhat reminiscent of Giger's design ethos with his Alien creature; The lack of eyes, and in this case, appendages as well, lends to a feeling of increased dread as the victim cannot discern the intent of the constructs nor the means through which they will be dispatched.
Unfortunately, as a whole, the theme is heavily reliant on bending the audiences expectations. Once the curiosity factor of 'ooh that's different' wears off, the viewer is left with a somewhat lackluster and repetitive army, one that does not readily convey a theme of change nor easily identify itself for gaming purposes.
Overall, I would say this was an interesting start and a good path to stay on, but it will require a lot more work and a variation on the theme to maintain an interest in the army in and of itself, and not basing it's worth primarily on comparison to expectation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/17 10:37:11
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Post by: Sageheart
well I want to see how far this goes, I do think the units look a bit too similar but it is a great concept, and seeing your other work I can see you making this very cool. It really needs more GW stuff on the bases to make it more in line with the rest of the armies out there, and i woudl say you also need to make the differences between units a bit bigger rather than just size. something that would make me see what is a soul grinder and what's a demon prince, maybe having some legs, or eyes, on certain units, such as the soul grinder has legs, but nothing else, the demon prince has one eye, etc. or going with different shapes or colors.
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Post by: Mastiff
It's a great concept, and I love the texture of the models. I love the creativity and originality.
My only complaint is that I would like to see the models tied into the 40k universe a bit more, possibly with rubble or detrius that would also give the models a sense of scale. Bodies might take away from the simplicity of the models, but brick walls, barbed wire or discarded weapons would help tell the story of alien lifeforms invading the mundane world.
Can't wait to see what comes next.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
oadie wrote:That's part of the reason why this doesn't work, for me, as an army. There are some cool looking melted forms, in there. The concept is interesting. I'm even happy to see a few physical pieces to really convey your concept. But as a full army for a tabletop wargame, this feels like a fun little mental exercise stretched way too thin.
I can't say I agree with anything you have said. For example, the black and white space marine fighting black and white tentacle demons picture you quoted from a previous poster is dull as dishwater to me. It's just bog-standard GW daemons painted intricately and time-consumingly. Tentacles, teeth, legs and faces. Dull, dull, dull.
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Post by: Piousman
I think this guy could be an interesting start for the blockmancer.
He is a Chaos Renegade player for Blood Bowl from Gaspez Arts.
- Piousman
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Post by: dbsamurai
TomxJ wrote:I like it.
But visually they have no sense of "place", something is only unusual if it differs from the norm, and in a fantasy world the common concensus is based on points of reference which might have to be explained to the viewer.
What about providing a contrasting point of reference against objects from the "normally perceived" world, such as battlefield detrius on the bases or as someone else has suggested a status quo centre piece, to really bring out just how weird these are and also provide a point of reference to us the observer.
Plus then you can legally use them in tournie's at most FLGSs since you can say "hey they're mostly made of GW parts! XDDDD
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Post by: Popsicle
Stangely... entrancing. I applaud you, mate. Nice one.
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Post by: Wehrkind
It took me a little to realize what irked me about horrors, and it didn't click until I saw the screamers: too many straight lines. The screamers from behind are really fantastic, and from the front (I am using the words loosely ) are good, with the trailing bits giving a good sense of motion.
The cubes though are a little too static looking, with too many square corners and straight edges. The melted out cube and the soul grinder both are improvements for me as well, giving more of a sense of movement and flow. I would like to see the SG have a little more of an pseudopod of something reaching out. Something to add some flow and motion, as opposed to just floating gently around. That might just be a personal thing though; I find things that seem to have motion and purpose to be more menacing that simply floating and unknown. Even I can't figure out how they move what purpose they have
Still, I am looking forward to more of the army. I might well end up playing with a similar concept in the future, as some of those forms are terribly hypnotic. Great concept; it is always cool to see different takes on just what "kaos" is.
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Post by: Young_Logan
Very very interesting. I love the idea behind the army and if was any other army of deamons that where from other powers I would say no but it works for the changer of ways. One thing you could attempt is the cubes morphing, no arms, eyes etc but blocks turning into other blocks and other shapes would look really weird and awesome. It is also pretty freaky and reminds me of slimes ( evil slime ) from a game a play now and then ( shivers )
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Post by: sphynx
Looks excellent, i'd love to fight an army like this, it'll feel utterly hopeless...
Well, I hope the Changer of Ways understands, because i sure as hell don't.
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Post by: terribletrygon
The blockmancer should be Steve from Minecraft.
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Post by: Kathie von Vhoorl
I like this concept quite a bit! I agree that there should be some 40kness added to the bases and/or a blockomancer to center the army.
Nice work!
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
This is taking cubism to the extreme!
In all seriousness, though, this is a great idea and while I sorta get it, I have to say, WHY?
Anyway, to all those fools saying 'It aint GW tourny legal' or 'it won't be alloed at your local gw store' Gwaargh actually stated that this army wasn't going to be used for tournies or at his flgs, it would be used for fun friendly games in his garage.
Personally, I like this, keep up the good work!
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Post by: Sageheart
I really like that last one!
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Post by: gwaahr
few sketches of potential updates...because it never hurts to have another soul grinder or...chariot...dick..thing
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Post by: Tortured-Robot
Not that I want or would ever copy your idea, but can i have some info on your creation process? (I want to try some of your melting effect on bases/building damage.)
I'm guessing you use expanded Polystyrene and an Adhesive to melt/create the shapes?
I have a crap-ton of the compressed Polystyrene thats used for insulation, but im not sure if this melts in the same way...
anyway, liking the new sketches.
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Post by: gwaahr
I use packaging polystyrene, the stiffer the better usually, then I melt it with a combination of lighters(jet lighter works best), spray paint and super glue. Each has a different effect and layering those effects will create new participations.
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Post by: AdeptusAssfartes
So awesome and creepy! I can just picture a line of guardsmen behind a barricade blasting at them with looks of incomprehensible horror strewn across their pathetic, carbon based faces.
Keep it up! I really wanna see you model that second concept sketch.
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Post by: gwaahr
ha ha, i like that. pathetic carbon-based forces
the basing needs more or less complete re-doing i think. More differing hights in the horror squads, and more battlefield detritus. Ruined hellenistic/imperial/representational architecture and screaming guardsmen. Its all a part of Cubes Phase II.
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Post by: Kensei81
Hi there Gwaahr,
just wanted to add my applause at a unique idea. the cubes look great.
i would support the previous suggestions of adding some "victims" to the bases or something to the like, but that's just my opinion.
for the HQ, perhaps have some additional floating cubes circling the main cube, using wire or clear plastic, kind of like a satellite effect.
anywho, congrats on the originality. keep us posted.
Kensei81
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Post by: Sabet
i personally do not like it. to me i cant see how they represent some of the things you describe, though i can see the screamers. but a question, why are you doing this?
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Post by: Mr.Malevolent
Definitely like the idea and the execution. This army would completely freak me out if I played against it. Keep up the amazing work
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Post by: NecronBender
Interesting concept!
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Post by: bunnygurl
This...I was not expecting. It's curiously interseting, although in some I'm having a hard time seeing the specific unit the cube is supposed to be.
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Post by: Grie Velorn
I like them.
Do you have any other ideas on the other gods of chaos? Maybe the spheres of nurgle, or the triangles of khorne.
I think you could pull it off very well.
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Post by: dajobe
I like them, very cool. Im with Mr Malevolent, if we had a game and you pulled these out, at first i'd be like WTF? but it is VERY cool
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Post by: Sageheart
I love how you placed them against normal scouts there, great image. They really are a scary army, would love to play against them.
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Post by: WarMill
I absolutely love it, it's the simplicity of the shape and the horror of the warping effect on them that makes it sinister for me. Very chaotic, an army of these would be way more terrifying than an army of screaming berezerkers because at least you could relate to the berserkers as humanoid whereas there is absolutely no way to relate tothese.
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Post by: Mr Nobody
I would hate to play against this.
I don't know what to shoot!
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Post by: dajobe
he would probably tell you, or a list would be a good idea, for example, pointy things=screamers
big boxes=...
little boxes=...
he could just hand that to all opponents and all would be good
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Post by: gwaahr
dajobe wrote:he would probably tell you, or a list would be a good idea, for example, pointy things=screamers
big boxes=...
little boxes=...
he could just hand that to all opponents and all would be good
Yeah I made one with diagrams that I give to my opponents if they havent already heard of the army. I generally only play 40k against close friends these days, got sick of the tournament game when 5th got released.
heres my scouts fighting the cubes...just coz
and wip cubeling swarms
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Post by: Boss Salvage
Mr Nobody wrote:I would hate to play against this.
I don't know what to shoot!
It's like with 'Nids: shoot the big ones! Still love the army, dig them action shots - Salvage
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Post by: Yggdrasil
Love the swarm concept!!!
And those Scouts clearly show you're not the lazy type... Nice colours & contrasts!!
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Post by: gwaahr
( WIP)
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Post by: Sageheart
those swarms are the best so far! I think the dark gray bases with the bright cubes really go well together. I love the terrain bits too, like the little chaos icon, and the tech stuff, good work!
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Post by: InventionThirteen
The cubeling swarms are awesome, great contrast and nice crisp colours.
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Post by: Joetaco
I like the idea or rather what i understood it to be. these "cubes of tzeentch" are highly mutable beings drawing parallels to Lovecraft's "colours out of space".
Overall the idea is cool and the shapes look nice BUT i don't like the paint scheme.
In my minds eye i invision something that would blend in the eye; something neither pink nor blue, but each at the same time. (i'm red/ green color blind and i once saw a green bush with red spray paint on it; i struggled to comprehend what i was looking at for a while)
i don't think thats something that could be achieved, but it would neat to see replicated.
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Post by: dajobe
i really like that telephone poll thing. but as I have said before, i really like these, to me it perfectly imbodies the spirit of a Tzeentch army.
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Post by: nectarprime
tylermenz wrote:
Your army speaks more of laziness than cheapness to me. Although the formless blobs are nice, the execution is inherently simplistic, and the painting shows little technical skill. Your explanation of abstract art just seems like artistic snobbery to me.
Ironic much? That was the snobbiest post in the thread...
OP, looks amazing, can't wait to see more of your work.
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Post by: The Dwarf Wolf
Mr Nobody wrote:I would hate to play against this.
I don't know what to shoot!
I Think that is amazing and realistic... What should a mortal general with no Knowledge of demonology think when facing an army of daemons of chaos?
I just love this. This is one of the rare scratch built armys that i would not dare to copy, just because of i respect it so much. Your army embody Tzench perfectly, and I can see those cubes changing colors and "blobing" forms whyle flloating trought the batlefield. Tottaly allien, tottally demonic. Those are domonic models that i could say "this thing deserves a invulnerable save just for existing", and dont look just another set of antrophomorfic aliens in 40k scenario.
You gained my Exalt... 
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Post by: junk
Amazing!
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Post by: DeadlySquirrel
Seems to me you just wanted a cheap way to build a big army. I wouldn't play you.
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Post by: Ovion
If you'd bothered reading the thread, rather than just making stupid comments (like others have) you'd have noticed this guy has a LOT of armies that he's done to a rather high standard.
Furthermore, I don't think he really plays anymore and this arm is more an exercise in artistic flair, and it's been done very, very well.
All these people naysaying are ultimately childish and pathetic, and I have a question for you:
Can you do better than this army, let alone his others?
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Post by: MrMerlin
This is more than awesome! I am definetly putting this on my to-do-list! They look so simple, yet beautiful.....
subcribed and exalted!
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Post by: TheRobotLol
This actually inspired me to do my Tzeentch army. All abstracty..
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Post by: Dabedman
Seriously cool concept, I love the fact that you seem to get crazy detail with such simple means and common sense.
It is a great idea and awesome application of fluff theory, but honestly I would love to see you develop the concept further for a bit of diversity. Maybe have a creature be a few cubes together, or some real deamon melding into or out of a cube. Someone mentioned the soul grinder cube having a gaping maw inside. That would be sweet to explore.
It is truly awesome and abstract and all that, but don't forget that the possibilities are endless.
Subscribed and exalted and all that.
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Post by: whigwam
Thank you, thread necromancy, for bringing me something awesome to look at. @OP: Beautiful army. Very nicely done.
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Post by: PapaPiggy
Are you cheap, or a genius? I can't tell. I love this idea almost as much as the sprue necron army. Either way man, Good job
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Post by: Colonel Jurten
An ingenious army, that really suggests the warping, maddening, twisting nature of Tzeentch, - they make me think of the Hounds of Tindalos, Yog-Sothoth or some other Lovecraftian cosmic horror. It is amorphous and odd, it feels slightly wrong next to standard 40K models, ever so slightly out of place, as it should be. Probably not playable in a normal sense, but too bloody good for that to be a problem if you ask me.
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Post by: EirÃkr
Perfect.
Literally, perfect.
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Post by: privateherbert24
Fits the Tzeentch theme PERFECTLY. Even though they aren't GW models I would have no qualms playing against them, they embody the feel of tzeentch very well. I likey.
I might try something sort of like this, albeit less geometric, for a daemon for my chaos guard... Thanks for the inspiration.
~J
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Post by: spudkins
Dont really understand this at all.
peace
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Post by: Pipboy101
I love this army and it's concept. It is giving a loose form to something that by all definition has no form. It is almost a forbidden planet concept when the form of the beast comes from the subconscious where the primal and abstract resides. Wonderful work and it shows a true concept of the subconscious. There is a sense of menace that adds to the chaotic feel of the shapeless warp energy trying to from to the physical rational mind.
You have my exalt.
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Post by: LunaHound
How does OP creat the melty stringy effect?
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Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
LunaHound wrote:How does OP creat the melty stringy effect?
I believe it's a heat gun on foam.
I've seen certain glues and such do the same. Zip Kicker, among others, does quite a fascinating number on foam.
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Post by: gwaahr
Its using a mixture of superglue, heat gun and lighters - basically heat sources and/or chemicals that will distrupt the surface of polystyrene. Its basically a matter of experimentation
Im currently doing experiments with expanding foam and a hair dryer for Cubes 2.0
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Post by: MrMerlin
What do you do about the unhealthy vapours? I'd like to copy your cubes....
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Post by: gwaahr
buy a good quality gas mask
I was using a dust mask at first until I realised it was doing nooooooooothing
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Post by: neil101
i love these , one of the best army ideas in 40k
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Post by: baseballclu
Your work is pure artistic genius and I don't know why people complain about something so original and non-conformist, though that may be the very thing that causes some people to not understand it, the non-conformist artistic expression. The whole idea is genius and the colour scheme really helps with the trans-dimensional horrors that tzeentch is.
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Post by: ENOZONE
Interesting. Bring out the spray paint.
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Post by: Slaanesh-Devotee
This is fantastic!
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Post by: SlaveToDorkness
No, it's terrible.
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Post by: Rippy
Necromancer ahoy!
Also, I don't get it. I could scrunch up paper and put it on bases, still not art, just being stingy and not buying models.
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Post by: Snrub
Allow me to quote the OP
 gwaahr wrote:If people dont get it i feel no obligation to provide an explanation - some people just wont.
but anyway, heres a tidbit,
from Thomas McEvilley's "13 ways of looking at a blackbird":
11. Content arising directly from the formal properties of the work.
"The formalist idea that abstract art lacks content is rightly seen today as archaic. It seems the associative and conceptualizing activities of the human mind go on constantly and transpire in an instant. thus we see everything within some frame of meaning. If perceptions truly had no content whatsoever they would be blank moments that would leave no trace in memory. At one level, formal configurations function as ontological propositions. Merely by shaping energy one models the real; every grasping or shaping is a rhetorical persuasion for a view of reality. Critics commonly have asserted that music has no content. But, for example, Beethoven is widely experienced as presenting a view of reality as stormy, turbulent and full of passionate arriving, while a Pollock drip painting asserts flux and indefiniteness of identity as qualities that can be found in the world. This tautological interface between form and content is not a mystical attempt to unify opposites. It simply means that a work demonstrates a type of reality by embodying it. Thus, abstract art, far from being non-representational, is, in effect, a representation of concepts; it is based on a process like that of metaphor, and overlaps somewhat with both iconography and representation."
Just because you think something is terrible doesn't mean it actually is. You just might not get it.
Also, don't necro threads more then a month old, no matter how awesome they may be.
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Post by: yakface
It is fine to post replies in old painting and Modelling threads as they don't tend to contain topical information that is out of date.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Well aren't you a joyless cretin. There is in all honesty no point in going around saying "This is crap" at people's models. I could do it to a goodly percentage of threads here, but I won't because why should I?
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Post by: Butterqwist
Funny that people say ¨well I could also do that...
The trick is that you have not and he/she did, that is art for you m8. Example: Many people today can make excellent copies of Claude Monet. Some even with better execution then him when talking about technical skill, but they were not first and therefor their paintings have no real value, according to all the international institutions of art).
I say this work is amazing and hope hes coming back with updates
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Post by: Alpharius
Constructive (and polite) criticism is the order of the day, all day, every day.
Especially in the P&M sections.
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Post by: SlaveToDorkness
I thought about offering up my reasoning for not liking these, but then figured I'd go with the OPs "I don't have to explain myself" attitude. So went with the minimum effort and explanation, keeping with the theme.
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Post by: Xenon
I really like this army. Very chaotic, mysteric and abstract, just as tzeentzch should be. I also like the way you have painted them. Really does justice for those foam cubes.
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Post by: Anvildude
What you missed was the berét jauntily cocked over one eye.
Personally I think this is brilliant, and what more Chaos modellers should aspire to. The Warp is meant to be the manifestation of all Man's twisted subconscious desires (or at least the daemons are?)- that means they're not always going to come out looking like chicks with crab claws or red Devil Dudes. Especially for Tzeench, who's reasoning we cannot know.
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Post by: BrotherOfBone
The fluff thing is interesting, how Tzeentchian demons don't have any real form, but if they don't have any real form then why are they all in a cube-esq shape?
Doesn't make sense to me, personally.
Also I don't tend to like anything done with an airbrush, seems lazy, but whatever floats your boat. I'm a paintbrush man myself.
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Post by: THEDARK1RI5ES
Love this concept! A massive 'change' (geddit?) from the usual.
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Post by: Boss Salvage
Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:This is fantastic!
SlaveToDorkness wrote:No, it's terrible.
The debate rages on!!
The army is brilliant Gwaahr, keep being a bloody madman
- Salvage
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Late to the party but I vote for awesome.
I think spheres or irregular blocks might have worked better (cubes seem so orderly) but other than that, it's fantastic.
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Post by: Yggdrasil
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:Late to the party but I vote for awesome.
I think spheres or irregular blocks might have worked better (cubes seem so orderly) but other than that, it's fantastic.
I just love when Mods are the ones necro'ing... Can I report it ?!?
I'm still on the "awesome" side, though, and it's nice to have another look at them... So thanks KK ! 
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Post by: Sageheart
Agreed with above.
Now would like to see more of those scouts!
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Post by: jhe90
The warp is ment to be a place man cannot comprehend, the cubes are not a push too far.
Its as great creative response to the concept
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Post by: queen_annes_revenge
Hmm.. I like the cubes.. But i think theyd be better as part of a more conventional army.. It looks like you couldnt afford regular models/cant paint regular models/or are one of them artsy a*seholes who have to be totally different... Maybe just make a unit of the cubes, and have demons erupting from them.. Like theyre carriers for them
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Post by: Medium of Death
The fact that people have the audacity to come in and abuse a fellow poster over stuff they don't like is astonishing.
Constructive feedback is permissible in this forum. If you can't phrase your feedback in such a manner then you probably shouldn't be posting here.
I'd love to see a resurgence of this army, or perhaps a use of this technique in combination with plastic bits to create Umbra.
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Post by: Squigsquasher
Necrothread I know, but it has to be said.
This is awesome, and really original. Tzeentch is by its very nature abstract, and these are just that. They actually look really creepy and menacing- their complete lack of anything resembling humanoid, organic or living features makes them so alien, so utterly incomprehensible...
Also they're really nicely painted!
For the Lord of Change, how about a rectangular, floating monolith?
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Post by: Bronzefists42
Under normal circumstances I might call this lazy if not for two things:
1. They are amazingly well painted.
2. They are the best interpretation of Tzeentch I have seen in a long time.
Those screamers are amazing and I can see the image of guardsmen cowering in fear as floating cubes reduce them to ooze.
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Post by: Otto Weston
Keep up the good work!
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Post by: Norn King
Love it, don't listen to the neckbeards getting mad over a slightly non-fluffy army.
This is completely original, something which is actually rare around here. To me these actually represent Tzeentch really well, its not a bunch of flying octopi slapping you in the face, but masses of energy that have come to this world to consume you.
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Post by: Darth Bob
Looking back on it this is still one of my favorite Tzeentch armies out there. Hope you come back to it, gwaahr, the concept art is brilliant.
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Post by: LeCacty
I agree. Absolutely gorgeous as well as origninal!
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Post by: Ezra Tyrius
I really, really like this army. It's just so very Tzeentchy, and so not-Tzeentchy; deliciously paradoxical. Which is straight up Tzeentch's alley I think
It's strange to see why people are so 'hostile' towards this, we're all fine with scratchbuilders making models from stuff they find around their house, converting models to completely different ones with green stuff and even proxying models with just their bases, but cheaply-produced featureless floating BOXES are way out of line?
...unless you're all secretly Khornates, because I can totally see why this army would make him rage beyond measure; after all, what would be more aggravating to a blood-obsessed maniac than an army of silent stone cubes which do not bleed?
But I do hope you all realize Tzeentch is watching this thread and laughing at all of us.
Very, very hard.
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Post by: toasteroven
What a wondrous idea this was (is?)
This is what the essence of chaos should look like.
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Post by: LeCacty
 Ezra Tyrius wrote:I really, really like this army. It's just so very Tzeentchy, and so not-Tzeentchy; deliciously paradoxical. Which is straight up Tzeentch's alley I think
It's strange to see why people are so 'hostile' towards this, we're all fine with scratchbuilders making models from stuff they find around their house, converting models to completely different ones with green stuff and even proxying models with just their bases, but cheaply-produced featureless floating BOXES are way out of line?
...unless you're all secretly Khornates, because I can totally see why this army would make him rage beyond measure; after all, what would be more aggravating to a blood-obsessed maniac than an army of silent stone cubes which do not bleed?
But I do hope you all realize Tzeentch is watching this thread and laughing at all of us.
Very, very hard.
Ugh. I forgor how COOL tzeentch is...
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Post by: Tinkrr
I like it a lot, except the larger models. I think the small cubes, the nurglings (cubelings), and screamers invoke the feeling of what they are assumed to be in a very awesome way.
The larger models, I don't see it, though I like the design concept of it. Maybe try to bring out some of that imagery out in the models more, like you did with the first three I mentioned. Something like the Soul Grinder looking like it does now, but make it look like it's dragging in souls to its center. As for the chariots, I kind of like what you did with the latter two, where it looks like something is in the center, but maybe make it look more like that thing is riding it more.
That being said, I like it a lot as a whole, I just want to feel more of that Screamer, Horror, Nurgling aspect that I've seen.
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Post by: Sneshy
Your attitude towards your artistic vision is tragic. I find the idea is creepy, eary and mysterious. But given the circumstance it would be best to explain to your critics so what they see isn't just foam blocks when they obviously didn't go through the same brain waves you went through making it.
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Post by: Ezra Tyrius
I don't really get why we even dragged the subject of 'art' into this. Yes, it's abstract and gwaahr did quote someone who was talking about art, but in the end, isn't this all the explanation you need:
gwaahr wrote:I am building a daemon army of tzeentch out of melted polystyrene blocks.
So yeah, he's building an army out of melted polystyrene blocks. Why? Because he wants to. You can think that's lazy, cheap or whatever, but in the end, it's his choice to do so. If he doesn't feel like explaining himself, why should we force him to do so? Plenty of people have an entire host of models but they don't really have an explanation as to why they have them or collect them other than "I think they're cool" or "Because I want to play that army". Why is this so different?
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
 Yggdrasil wrote: Kid_Kyoto wrote:Late to the party but I vote for awesome.
I think spheres or irregular blocks might have worked better (cubes seem so orderly) but other than that, it's fantastic.
I just love when Mods are the ones necro'ing... Can I report it ?!?
I'm still on the "awesome" side, though, and it's nice to have another look at them... So thanks KK !
3 months is not a necro!
Is it?
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Post by: LeCacty
 Kid_Kyoto wrote: Yggdrasil wrote: Kid_Kyoto wrote:Late to the party but I vote for awesome.
I think spheres or irregular blocks might have worked better (cubes seem so orderly) but other than that, it's fantastic.
I just love when Mods are the ones necro'ing... Can I report it ?!?
I'm still on the "awesome" side, though, and it's nice to have another look at them... So thanks KK !
3 months is not a necro!
Is it?
No! It's awakening from a coma!
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Post by: gwaahr
2.0
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Post by: evildrcheese
Very cool. I love to see people do neat things for daemon armies as I think they could basically take any form and and what GW produces is just one example.
Keep up the great work.
EDC
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Post by: LeCacty
HE LIVES!!!!
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Post by: amazingturtles
I have just found this and I am looking forward to whatever new wonders this thread might bring.
hopefully the wonders will be cube shaped.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Can't wait to see more!
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Post by: gwaahr
cheers guise
heres a quick WIP, sketching out colours and values
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Post by: LeCacty
Niiiice!
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Post by: Cleatus
This is one of the most awesome things I have ever seen.
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Post by: gwaahr
 Darth Bob wrote:Okay. I can now say I've seen armies in all shapes and sizes.
Interesting concept...have any fluff?
they werent based on this, but for people who want some 40k fluff justification there is this; http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Cube
Just re-reading a selection of the drivel some people have posted about this army. It never ceases to amaze me how offensive some people can be about other people's work for no apparent reason. I mean, I dont go around mindlessly proclaiming when I dont like things, but then I guess the old adage rings true when it comes to the cubes;
some people are just jerks.
SlaveToDorkness wrote:No, it's terrible.
Nah m8, your terrible. lol.
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Post by: bebopdrums2424
gwaar, pay them no mind. You are one of the most original and true artists on this site, and by far one of my favorites. So much so that I wish I paintedlike you did, but then,I'd be jive because I'd just be copying you!!! Don't let those idiotic comments about being confused (honestly what's to even be wconfusused about) and whatever else get to you. Chances are they are super young and aren't really here for anything else but space marines. Looking forward to any update of yours!
Bebop
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Post by: SJM
Don't feed the trolls.
FREE THE CUBES!!!
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Post by: Verviedi
This army is just so great, in ways that I can't describe in any three-dimensional tongue.
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Post by: inflatablefriend
Love this so hard. Fantastic idea well executed!
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Post by: Commander Cain
What a cool idea for an army! The latest cubes have a real creepy look about them. Have you considered adding some models getting eaten by the larger cubes? I would love to see you half-melt a guardsman and place him in the center of one! Have yourself an exalt and I look forward to seeing much more in the future
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Post by: LeCacty
#cube4lyfe
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Post by: SlaveToDorkness
 bebopdrums2424 wrote:gwaar, pay them no mind. You are one of the most original and true artists on this site, and by far one of my favorites. So much so that I wish I paintedlike you did, but then,I'd be jive because I'd just be copying you!!! Don't let those idiotic comments about being confused (honestly what's to even be wconfusused about) and whatever else get to you. Chances are they are super young and aren't really here for anything else but space marines. Looking forward to any update of yours!
Bebop
I'm neither "super young" nor a space marine fanatic. I don't even play 40k any more. I'm a fan of Gwaar's other thread and love his original paint style. Which is precisely why I feel this particular concept falls short of his abilities. Of all the oohs and aaaahs over this concept, at the end of the day it's just melted foam with some dry brushing and washes. I'm all for original concepts but the execution for me is just lacking. Hence my comment of it being terrible. The concepts have improved as he's progressed beyond the initial rough cubes on sticks. Pushed further it could be pretty cool.
I'd say the confusion would lie in having to play against this army and try and keep up with what each vague cube shape actually represented in-game. Especially the bigger things.
But that's just my idiotic kid GW fanboy opinion. I apologize for going against the slavering sycophants.
As you were...
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Post by: gwaahr
lol ok crazy lady, i accept your weird apology
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Post by: toasteroven
Nice cubes.
Who would have known that cubes would be such a contentious matter?
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Post by: Anvildude
That's Art, innit?
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Post by: evildrcheese
Beautiful, just beautiful.
EDC
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Post by: bigfish
excellent army, would be awesome to play against a force like this at least once. Awesome man
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Post by: LeCacty
Niice
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Post by: Ketara
I do like it, although I'm a little unsure on the execution. Can't help but feel it wasn't completely realised, despite a good start, and could have had more done with it.
Makes me think of this chap a fair bit.
.png/revision/latest?cb=20120320043146)
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Post by: Jehan-reznor
Cubism makes a return
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Post by: RustyNumber
NECROMANTIC POWERS I COMPEL THEE
Miscast mentioned The Cubes and I was amazed to find some remains online preserved within this venerable thread!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgtvBFDr18
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Post by: Skinflint Games
Loving this, and needless to say I plan on having a crack at it myself...
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