By posting complaints about price rises, southern hemisphere embargos, smelly redshirts, a lack of news and rumours shoddy rules, lack of tourney support.... basically whatever you want to complain about on their facebook page.
Just had a look at just one of the threads there...wow, they've managed to upset just about everyone this time!
Nice one GW.
Oh, and I would class this thread as "news" due to A) it's relevance to current events in the hobby which are news as of today, and B) it's probably news to a lot of people (like me) that they've got a facebook option to vent their disgust at GW.
At least they're efficient. They're trying to offend the largest amount of people in the shortest duration of time by raising prices, decreasing purchasing venue options, and pulling lots of figs for both determinate and indeterminate amounts of time. I marvel at their ability to shoot the entire foot off with a shotgun instead of pistol shooting individual toes off like most businesses would.
Yeah, I´m wondering the whole time myself: How the heck could they believe that bringing all those news in rapid succession would be any good?
I have to admit, the price hike alone would not have bothered me that much. It would only have meant less GW minis bought per month, so my armies would grow slower.
The switch to resin/plastic mix, well I´m not that unhappy about that actually. Pretty indifferent either way.
The supposed new policy with unveiling new stuff only a week before release. Well, less hype and more time spend contemplating if I actually would need the model.
The whole southern hemisphere thing? Pretty bad move, but not affecting me directly.
All things together? Damn, that actually pissed me off, as far as I can be pissed of about plastic toys anyway. For now I´m done with buying new GW stuff. I´m more into PP right now anyway, and I have more than enough GW stuff left to paint.
They're already hard at work deleting comments about playing other games and purchasing other companies products. My comment I left less than 20 minutes ago poofed.
Erasoketa wrote:I can't understand how GW is able to do some stuff so great, and also able to take the worst decisions.
I think they choose everything rolling D6s. We've been lucky with the DE, I guess.
Eh, that would be because the people making models and the people making business decisions are not one and the same.
The models are constantly improving, a few odd stinkers aside. The business side has been consistently been absolutely slowed.
I disagree. The people who makes the models are responsible of how they look like, but I don't think they choose the pricing or if it's going to be a metal kit or a plastic kit (or resin now). For example, DE Cold Ones and Chaos Knights, are great kits with a nice price. Then we have the Vampire Count knights, as expensive as a battleforce. Someone in a desktop is rolling dices, or flipping coins, or something equally stupid and random.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:GW will close their own account?
GW closed their own forums, when people started first to complain.
So, yeah.
I, for one, have no FB account and certainly won't create one for this.
Korraz is right. If GW closed their own forums due to negative publicity they'll certainly have no problem leaving facebook (if they can figure out how to delete their account). I'm sure it's been said before, but as a multinational corporation they understand only profit.
I wish GW the best of luck in figuring out how to delete a facebook account.
Cracked.com wrote:
Facebook keeps deleted accounts for only two weeks, but it makes sure that even getting to that stage is ridiculously complicated. If you search in your account settings, you'll see an option to "deactivate" your profile. Click on that, and Facebook will show you images of your friends and you saying "[name] will miss you."
Let's say you somehow make it past all the emotional blackmail and deactivate your account. Guess what? "Deactivating" isn't the same as deleting: All your information is still stored by Facebook indefinitely, and people can continue to tag you in pictures and send you invitations. The REAL delete button isn't in your settings at all -- it's hidden in a place that isn't so easily accessible. To reach it, you have to follow a needlessly complicated series of steps.
Even then, you're not out of the woods. As we mentioned, you have to wait two weeks for your profile to be erased permanently, but if you interact with Facebook in any way during those 14 days (including "Like" boxes and Facebook Connect), the account cancellation will be aborted. Let's say you use Facebook Connect on a website and you set it up to log you in automatically. As soon as you navigate into that website, Facebook will assume you regretted your decision and will reactivate your account.
Plus, Facebook pictures are also notoriously hard to delete. Try this: Upload a picture to Facebook and then copy the image's URL (that's the long address ending in .jpg). Now delete the image from your profile and paste the URL to your browser's address bar. The picture will still be there. If you check back in a month, chances are it still won't be gone.
A study by Cambridge University found out that out of 16 social networks, seven take longer than a month to delete your images. Think of the implications: Let's say an embarrassing picture somehow finds its way into your profile, possibly due to circumstances involving alcohol consumption. The next morning you rush to delete the picture, but if even one of your friends saw it and copied the URL, he'd be able to access, download and propagate the image for the next month.
Facebook admits that deleted content "may persist in backup copies for a reasonable period of time" adding that it "will not be available to others," but that's bs -- try that URL from before in a different computer, and it will still work. By contrast, sites such as Flickr and Twitter delete images instantly. And speaking of Twitter, it doesn't store your deleted tweets for any amount of time -- but the Library of Congress does. For, you know, posterity. It keeps a record of "ALL public tweets, ever, since March 2006," in case future generations wonder what Snooki was having for lunch on Dec. 23, 2010.
Well I am not one to say I will quit because of all this, but eventually there will be a straw that breaks my camel's back.
I quit Magic the Gathering after years of BS like this with GW. When the most expensive staple cards for a Standard deck went from $25.00 to $90.00+, I figured it was time to jump ship. People still play the game despite the problems, but I have noticed a significant decline in the Friday Night Magic attendance and the new set prereleases. Eventually the game will quit due to a "decrease in sales". "Nobody is buying our game anymore. Waaaaaa!"
I don't know why people who are in the money making business think it is a good idea to piss off its customers.
It sort of reminds me of the Legend of the Seeker TV show. People complained that they went too far away from the source material. Die hard fans of Terry Goodkind's series started to loathe the show and eventually stopped watching it. Eventually the show was canceled. Who didn't see that coming?
Now the Game of Thrones series is out and it is doing a good job of sticking with the source material, (the stuff that people like...). The show is already a 1000 times better than The Legend of the Seeker and it is not because of the boob shots.
You wanna keep your fans and keep the money rolling in, then you need to appeal to them, not piss them off.
'Nads, I'd recommend posting their (physical) address in the OP too, as that's supposed to be the best way to contact/complain them.
I recognised your comments solely due to the hair cut too!
I'd also say N&R is fairly appropriate for this as it's where it would get the most notice, with people being appalled after reading the 'real' N&R...
Heck, it was news to me that GW was on FB.
Is it a good idea to invite people to post all the usual stuff? The real issue - prices - will get lost in the white noise. If I were GW I'd have a considerable amount of skepticism about a lot of the stuff that gets dumped on them. The GW forums are a good example - any valid criticisms disappeared in a storm of idiocy, and by the time they closed them they'd ceased to perform any useful function (in fact I wonder if that's where GW's apparent resistance to internet comment stemmed from). But a targeted campaign to make them realise that the coming price 'changes' are a bridge too far would be harder to ignore.
gr1m_dan wrote:The first things I stopped buying were the glue, flock, paint, tools etc
Even a Blueshirt told me to buy the glue from another shop cause it's so expensive compared to normal places! :-O When I was at the counter too!!!!
+ 1
Never, ever buy modelling supplies from GW. You can find much, much cheaper alternatives elsewhere which work just as well if not better e.g. I use fine model railway ballast for basing which is half the price of GW modelling sand and not as chunky.
Have they, I'm not seeing any deletions. The number has been going steadily up all day
As far as I can tell, they can't delete posts, only hide them. Compare the number of comments the wall post says it has, vs the number you can see when you click to view them. Everything missing has been hidden by GW.
I think it's quite telling that people are calling for Ward's head. It says less about Internet Hyperbole and more about the quality (or lack thereof) of Ward's work.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I think it's quite telling that people are calling for Ward's head. It says less about Internet Hyperbole and more about the quality (or lack thereof) of Ward's work.
So where were the people calling for Pete Haines or Cavatore's heads?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
filbert wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:Well, it's good to know people can't even whine right and there's complaints about how "I'd keep playing if only Mat Ward were fired."
When has this community ever been able to agree on anything, much less act in unison?
This is actually hilarious. I've never seen such unadulterated venom being projected at a business before. Obviously everything they are getting they brought down on themselves, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a vacancy pop up on GW Careers in a few days for 'Trainee Facebook Comment Deleter' or something like that.
filbert wrote:An example of the community 'concerted effort'
From Facebook:
Michael Allen Oliver wrote: Its your countries taxes and import laws, not Games Workshop.
Bull. Why are they cracking down on independent stores that -can- sell to distant markets as a good price, then? We don't have an official GW retailer in Brazil. It's online or nothing. If GW wants our market, they should do whatever Maelstrom and Wayland do right instead of effectively pricing whole continents out of their market.
I haven't posted on dakka in literally years but this thread has inspired me.
I think that this whole situation is hilarious. Who still buys models at these prices? If I were a teenage boy again, facing these prices, I would buy a game console instead of getting into GW gaming and both save money and avoid the awkward shame of being viewed as a giant dork..
Even as an adult with substantial disposable income, it's hard to maintain the fantasy of dignity in what amounts to playing with children's toys when you're spending 30 dollars on the luxury of being able to assemble and paint a piece of injected molded resin.
The poster who made the analogy to abusive relationships hit the nail on the head: you may love them and you may have a bunch of great memories, but they don't listen to you and they treat you like garbage. The only way things will get better is by accepting that they currently suck and that it's your responsibility to stop enabling the abuse.
Kanluwen wrote:
So where were the people calling for Pete Haines or Cavatore's heads?
There were plenty.
There were plenty of people who I remember just thought they were twits. I don't remember people calling for them to be fired or physically harmed like they do for Ward.
1. Print your letter on one side of paper (any longer and no one will read it). Hand-sign it.
2. Double, triple check spelling and grammar.
3. Don't rant. Post a reasonable and thought-out argument. Make your points very clear and concise. Focus on how the changes effect you personally, you do not represent the whole world.
4. Make it clear you want a response back.
5. Repost the text of the letter here so people can base their own letters on it.
6. Send it to the following people:
Tom Kirby
Mark Wells
Kevin Rountree
all at:
Games Workshop
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS
In an age of email, paper letters remain one of the most impactful ways to get a point across. You have time to compose a well thought out argument, and no one actually gets letters any more.
that is very true. A letter is alot more likely to get a reply than an email. You'd think it would be easier to ignore but it is not!
although you will likely get a reply amounting to what happened in the Simpsons with the "cosmic wars episode"
"Hey Warhammer fan, thank you for showing how much you love our products! as a thank you here is a single hair from Tom Kirby's head for you to cherish"(no we wouldnt give you a free model or even a piece of sprue what were you thinking hahah)
yours
Mark
poor Admin Clerk assigned to respond to disgusted customers.
Cant blame them though, they have dozens of people milking money from off their product, so obviously their interests come first. But that doesnt justify abusing your customers.
Clearly everything they are doing right now is aimed at disabling the online retailers and "encouraging" people to go to GW stores and GW online by making it mandatory when all the fine cast stuff goes back to direct only. GW Online is the end game, it means total profits.
This is GW controling the hype again and encouraging white dwarf sales, well "attemping" anyway. I couldnt tell you what their thinking is on this, it comes off as them being high on their own farts again thinking they can do no wrong.
I'd tell you all to tell GW how you feel with your wallets but they dont get it, they just increase prices...
Lord Scythican wrote:I have half a mind to sell my 40K models and buy some Forgeworld stuff. Only a few more price hikes, and they will be about the same price.
That'll show 'em! Sell your current armies and give them more of your money by buying even more expensive crap.
also does amnybody have a pre-written letter I could borrow, I'm not very good at letter wirting yet
Yeah I think we need some sort of well written letter that lists the general issues we are all having at the moment. It needs to be clear, concise, tactful, and respectful. Then everyone can add their own flavour to it and send it to GW. Somebody want to start up a letter so we can all look over it, edit, and make comments and suggestions for it?
Gee. Who'd have thought they'd lock down their wall after the Internet chatter on Forums, which they do visit, said to post any kind of frustration you have with them on their wall.
Lord Scythican wrote:I have half a mind to sell my 40K models and buy some Forgeworld stuff. Only a few more price hikes, and they will be about the same price.
That'll show 'em! Sell your current armies and give them more of your money by buying even more expensive crap.
While you make a valid point, I guess I should elaborate on my reasoning. If I sell all my GW stuff and buy me a Death Korps of Krieg army I will finally be content. I wouldn't need to buy anything else ever again if I had my favorite army.
So, you're not actually teaching GW a lesson; you're actually doing what they want you to do. Sell you stuff, of better yet throw it away and buy all new stuff from them. Your example's even worse because FW is so expensive that you can buy 2 or 3 complete armies for the price of the one you're thinking about.
agnosto wrote:So, you're not actually teaching GW a lesson; you're actually doing what they want you to do. Sell you stuff, of better yet throw it away and buy all new stuff from them. Your example's even worse because FW is so expensive that you can buy 2 or 3 complete armies for the price of the one you're thinking about.
No its not. I buy probably 10,000 points worth of GW stuff a year. If I sold what I currently have and bought the last army I would ever own, I could exit this nonsense with at least somethng that I want. I would effectively quitting the game.
Seriously I sold a couple grand of Nids last year to buy a couple grand of Dark Eldar and Blood Angels this year. I will probably do the same for Necrons and Sisters of Battle. However if I went with the forgeworld plan, I would pretty much be out of the game.
I actually tried to do this last year. To get the Death Korps army I need I would have to have around $2000.00. But if I did, I would be content and not spend another dime on GW products. As it stands, I spend a couple hundred a month, sell off some, and buy more.
Of course my original point is kind of lost. Originally I meant, hey I might as well buy Forgeworld since GW is almost the same price.
Lord Scythican wrote:Yeah I think we need some sort of well written letter that lists the general issues we are all having at the moment. It needs to be clear, concise, tactful, and respectful. Then everyone can add their own flavour to it and send it to GW. Somebody want to start up a letter so we can all look over it, edit, and make comments and suggestions for it?
yeah, if I wrote my own it would just be "Dear GW, Frack your and your stupid price rises and Frack your Fethed-up Independent retailer policy, In fact, I'm moving to Infinity [insert giant middle finger pic here]"
agnosto wrote:So, you're not actually teaching GW a lesson; you're actually doing what they want you to do. Sell you stuff, of better yet throw it away and buy all new stuff from them. Your example's even worse because FW is so expensive that you can buy 2 or 3 complete armies for the price of the one you're thinking about.
Apparently, it's cheaper for people in Oz to buy the FW kits that include the GW plastics as an afterthought than to buy the GW plastics direct. While in this case he's teaching no one a lesson, it would be a bit of a sting if he were down under.
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:This is actually hilarious. I've never seen such unadulterated venom being projected at a business before.
Where have you been. This kind of thing is standard on GW-related forums. For some reason people are then upset when their indiscriminate ranting falls on deaf ears.
Lord Scythican wrote:Yeah I think we need some sort of well written letter that lists the general issues we are all having at the moment. It needs to be clear, concise, tactful, and respectful. Then everyone can add their own flavour to it and send it to GW. Somebody want to start up a letter so we can all look over it, edit, and make comments and suggestions for it?
yeah, if I wrote my own it would just be "Dear GW, Frack your and your stupid price rises and Frack your Fethed-up Independent retailer policy, In fact, I'm moving to Infinity [insert giant middle finger pic here]"
So in other words, you are asking for a little help. A general letter filled with complaints and not harsh language seems like it would rather useful then.
Okay someone want to write something for us to look over? (Don't let FM Ninja write it...)
Isn't this so strange though? We dislike how they treat us, yet we always come back for more until we are fed up with them. After we exit the game, a few ignorant kids with their mother show up at a store and replace us. No wonder GW does things the way they do.
You can't argue guys, thats not a salution. If you want to sell your army and buy death korps, we get it but it doesn't really help. However if thats what you want we see your point, go for it!
However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.
(Where is Ben Franklin when you need the guy!?)
Kanluwen wrote:
So where were the people calling for Pete Haines or Cavatore's heads?
There were plenty.
There were plenty of people who I remember just thought they were twits. I don't remember people calling for them to be fired or physically harmed like they do for Ward.
I don't remember any about Alessio either, but I remember a LOT about Pete Haines. Not near the Ward level though.
Nüb wrote:You can't argue guys, thats not a salution. If you want to sell your army and buy death korps, we get it but it doesn't really help. However if thats what you want we see your point, go for it!
However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.
(Where is Ben Franklin when you need the guy!?)
I am trying to make that point as well. The whole forgeworld thing will not help the problem, but it would be a nice way to exit the hobby. It is like my comments towards speaking with your wallet. It doesn't help the overall issue.
I did the same with Magic the Gathering. I sold all my cards and bought something else. I look at the new cards and wish they would get their act together but they won't. If a few thousand people a month sent some letters for a year, I bet GW would listen eventually. I just don't think it will happen. I will waste my time writing a letter than will be 1 of 20. I might as well jump ship and start collecting home decor with my wife.
but theres so many other miniature games out there!
also if you want a middle ground, shop on ebay or use proxy models!
the only way to really let a retail company know you dont like their behavior is with your wallet. GW may eventually go to the wall but its likely someone (hopefully with more brains) will take it over.
Lord Scythican wrote:Yeah I think we need some sort of well written letter that lists the general issues we are all having at the moment. It needs to be clear, concise, tactful, and respectful. Then everyone can add their own flavour to it and send it to GW. Somebody want to start up a letter so we can all look over it, edit, and make comments and suggestions for it?
Nüb wrote:However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.
(Where is Ben Franklin when you need the guy!?)
If no-one's stepped up by Thursday, I may have a pop at it. I can't guarantee the quality, but I'd like to argue I can be concise, tactful and respectful whilst my English is good. Letter-writing, maybe not-so-much, but if no-one has offered to by Thursday I'd be willing to try...
Lord Scythican wrote:Yeah I think we need some sort of well written letter that lists the general issues we are all having at the moment. It needs to be clear, concise, tactful, and respectful. Then everyone can add their own flavour to it and send it to GW. Somebody want to start up a letter so we can all look over it, edit, and make comments and suggestions for it?
Nüb wrote:However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.
(Where is Ben Franklin when you need the guy!?)
If no-one's stepped up by Thursday, I may have a pop at it. I can't guarantee the quality, but I'd like to argue I can be concise, tactful and respectful whilst my English is good. Letter-writing, maybe not-so-much, but if no-one has offered to by Thursday I'd be willing to try...
I can write actually pretty good if I want, but I prefer to edit...
Ravenous D wrote:Clearly GW will respond to your letters by increasing the prices due to the need for a bigger mail box...
hah
I could just imagine this "sadly due to the recent increase in mail we must ask customers to submit a cheque for 50p for us to open/read their mail due to the costs of maintaining a mailbox...oh and we need to pay some kid £2.50 an hour to open them! (but only when hes not polishing Master Kirby's nails)
Nüb wrote:You can't argue guys, thats not a salution. If you want to sell your army and buy death korps, we get it but it doesn't really help. However if thats what you want we see your point, go for it!
However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.
(Where is Ben Franklin when you need the guy!?)
Here's Kirby's open letter that he's asking to be posted on Blogs or sent to GW:
Tailgunner wrote:Where have you been. This kind of thing is standard on GW-related forums. For some reason people are then upset when their indiscriminate ranting falls on deaf ears.
Oh, I've always been here. I've just never seen it projected with actual faces and names behind the aggression. Anonymity on the internet plays a big part in people ranting indiscrminantly, but when that handle turns into 'Joe Bloggs from the UK' suddenly he's an actual, paying customer rather than a faceless pundit on the interwebs.
Why? No seriously, why? I'm sure the excuse of cutting off Australasia and other countries (Canada, India, Korea, South American countries, etc.) to benefit the independent and GW store sales in Australia sounded good but unless you cut the prices here to not be a ridiculous 200% higher price than overseas, it's not going to happen. Let's look at this logically. You've stopped us from buying from stores like Maelstrom and Wayland with an embargo agreement in your Terms and Conditions (remember globalisation? how's that going btw?). Does this mean we are going to now buy at RRP in Australia or other countries? No.
There are other outlets overseas we can buy from which are still much cheaper (hi America), other companies which you cannot touch without raising a helluva lot of crap (hi ebay) and people who are willing to ship to us overseas (hello family and friends) without the 200% tax. We won't be getting as huge a discount as before but it's much better than buying here at RRP. The other option is of course going to be quitting which I imagine some people are going to do. Check out this thread on WargamerAU where a lot of people are indicating they are. The ultimate bottom line? Your bottom line suffers (more people leaving) and the retailers in Australia do not benefit.
Now I'm all for one in supporting the locals. I buy all my products such as spray paint, paints, plasticard, magnets, drills + bits, modelling putty, brushes, etc. from Australia. As an aside, do you actually stock good quality merchandise for all of those options? I don't see you selling plasticard, magnets, good sized drillbits, custom bases, etc. I'd be happy to pay a 5-10% premium on these objects compared to other stores to support your business but then again, I don't really want to support your business currently do I? The point of any business is to make a profit but the problem with your business model is you do not do this whilst concurrently supporting your customer base. We don't ask for much but a short list would look like...
not raising prices every year, without fail, regardless of the economic situation or inflation rates
basing prices around the world upon exchange rates (I wouldn't be averse to paying 20% more in Australia compared to the UK or America locally but I am adverse to paying twice as much) - there are circumstances in each country that make operating there more or less expensive but you need a base retail price for your product which is then translated by exchange rates at a given time (i.e. quarterly) rather than a price set many, many years ago. It's part of being in a global market.
regular and quick FAQs - you've done a fantastic job IMO of creating some pretty balanced books for 5th edition, fix the grey areas quickly.
official erratas - man up and admit you've made mistakes (hi Tyranids) and work on erratas that are official and re-print the books with these amendments. Admitting a mistake and fixing it isn't a problem and I'd applaud you for it. Ignoring a problem is.
fix Fantasy - you did it with 40k, why go backwards with Fantasy?
don't think your customer base is moronic - the resin re-cast to be cheaper than metals whilst hiking prices, not fooling anyone.
Ultimately people in Australia and other countries go overseas for their Games Workshop products for a reason: it's significantly cheaper (I.e. half price). What motivation is there to therefore buy from our locals when you aren't treating your customers with loyalty and support? People will walk away and your bottom line will hurt. A simple solution: care about your customers. Change the Australian (and other countries) prices so they are at least similar to the UK and US. This doesn't have to be the exact same price but some parity would be greatly appreciated.
Here's a quick example. If you could buy a similar product for $45 compared to $150, what would you do? How about if the product was the exact same but if you ordered it overseas it was $80 compared to $150 by the time it reached your door step? I'm pretty sure you'd want to take the cheaper option correct? For you as a company, you make your profit margin through the reseller regardless of where it is purchased. You may make more money off a direct sale at an Australian store compared to an Internet sale from the UK but you have already achieved the profit margin from the Internet sale already. The Australian stores may be hurting but this is down to the initial price you have set, not market trends. Simply put, you are alienating customers from a large and developing market.
I and many of the readers here obviously enjoy your game. We've played it through thick and thin (4th edition...) or come back thanks to an improvement game balance (5th edition) and don't want to leave. We will though sooner or later if you keep piling on idiotic choices on us. Other companies like Privateer Press did very well in the early to mid-2000s for a reason and people will migrate to other gaming systems if you continue to mistreat them and their loyalty.
As it stands I question why you do the things you do. Raising prices every year annoys me but I cannot complain too loudly as your products are a luxury item but you do not provide excellent customer service one usually expects with such goods. I certainly find minimal fault with your staff or when your product is damaged/faulty but your overarching business model seems counter-intuitive to maintaining a customer base. Even if you are getting a large amount of new customers imagine how much better off your company would be if you had maintained a significant portion of your repeat customers. The model you are running currently to me does not seem sustainable as your turnover rate in customers is just too high. I applaud your efforts in making 40k 5th edition a more competitive game but what you've done to Fantasy 8th edition doesn't bode well for the future.
Please, look to satisfy both the shareholders and the customer rather than just the former.
Nüb wrote: However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.
<YourAddress>
<DateOfWritingLetter>
Games Workshop Willow Road Lenton Nottingham NG7 2WS
Dear <NameOfGamesWorkshopEmployee>,
I am writing to inform you of how displeased I am with the new pricing structure that has been recently announced. I have been playing <GameSystems> since <Date> but now I am begging to feel that I will no longer be able to justify the costs of continuing. For instance, consider <ProductYouLikeButIsTooExpensive>, I would love to include <ProductYouLikeButIsTooExpensive> in my <FavoriteArmy> but its cost of <NewProductCost> places it beyond what I can spend on <GameSystem> at this time.
<OptionalSection> The current trend of annual price increases reminds me of <GameSystemThatDidSomethingSimillar>. <Publisher> <DidSomethingSimilar> which led to me <DoingSomething>. </OptionalSection>
While I love <FavoriteGWGameSystem> and have spent <MeasureOfTime> building, converting, painting, and gaming with it, I feel the day approaching where I will have to leave <FavoriteGWGameSystem> behind and take up something like <CompetingProduct>.
Thank you for your time and Consideration.
Sincerely, <YourName>
So for instance, I were to write Jervis today I might write:
12 Shoggoth Way R'Lyeh
May 17, 2011
Dear Mr. Jervis Johnson,
I am writing to inform you of how displeased I am with the new pricing structure that has been recently announced. I have been playing Warhammer 40,000 since July of 2008, but now I am begging to feel that I will no longer be able to justify the costs of continuing. For instance, consider the Necron Battle Force, I am looking to expand my Necron army ahead of the rumoured codex release this year, but its cost of $105(USD) represents an increase of slightly over 16% compared to last year. While it would be significantly more simple to buy new models, I will instead be purchasing the models I want second hand to help cut costs.
The current trend of annual price increases reminds me of Magic: The Gathering. Wizards of the Coast began releasing an new core set every year in addition to their typical three expansions. Any card that is no longer printed in a core set or in one of the current year's expansions may not be used in the most popular game formats. This priced me out of their market. I sold off all of the cards I owned and used the money to purchase one of the Realm of Battle and terrain bundles that was available when Planetstrike was released.
While I love Warrhammer 40K, and have spent many hours over the past three years building, converting, painting, and gaming with it, I feel the day approaching where I will have to do the same thing I did with Magic, and find another game system.
Dear Games Workshop, We the actual players of your games and collectors of your miniatures are becoming increasingly disturbed by the route that you are pursuing. We would like you to comment on the following points and justify them if you can.
1) Despite the worldwide recession your persistent price rises may be for the benefit of shareholders but are of little benefit to the actual fans as you are forcing many of us to give up a hobby we care about. Also as more people drop out this will have a very adverse effect on your profits.
2) Sacking staff and closing stores is a very quick way of saving money and maintaining profit, but for how long? What happens when you can't sack/close anymore?
3) Resin may seem like the way forward but as resin contains oil prices as we have seen are perhaps more volatile than metal and they never go lower so as the consumer would notice. Is it safe to assume that resin will see the price rises as frequently as at the moment?
4) Do you honestly believe that your high costs on all your ranges encourage players and new players to continue/join the hobby?
5) Why do you not listen to the people on the ground? After all we are the ones who pay the bonus to shareholders; WE MATTER.
6) Other companies are now investing in plastic and to be honest they are making a mockery of your prices. Hell even two of your talented people the Perrys are producing high quality figures at a much much lower price than you. Why?
7) If you persist in ignoring the players, you are going to lose a lot of money and the shareholders will not be happy. You seem to think you are invincible> YOU ARE NOT. Carry on like this and your business will implode.
This is as far as I've got at the moment. Feel free to laugh/criticize anything. I'm beyond being angry. I've been into GW since White Dwarf 53 and now I'm being forced out> I don't like it.
All good stuff, I don't agree on all the points that people are rasing, but a lot of them I am including in my own letter (which is focused on the year on year price increases) so keep the views coming
I think i'm just going to sit back and wait a little, right now everyone seems to be in knee jerk reactionary mode. I can completely understand the annoyance over price hikes for Southerners. That's Justifiable. But the idea of Resin models appeals to me since i prefer that than metal. I just wish they're pricing would be proportional to the material expenses rather than be the same as the metal pricing. But for now it's a wait a see. Lucky i got plenty of warhammer to paint and in the meantime I don't plan to get any more.
And if it does turn out bad, then i'll be given the final go ahead to start playing Infinity which i've been interested in now for the past few months.
Alright the page was made, sorry it took so long I had to grab some noms. I was gonna put a picture of angry marines cause it seemed appropriate for the topic, however serious it may really be. So without further adue, please feel free to give input on anything that should be posted or updated in a format.
Forgive me it was the initial set up, I'm going to be sending everything to a spellchecker to make sure its clean. However if you think that something should be changed or added please feel free to let me know.
Look it was just a set up name it can all be edited, I can fix it or another could be started, it was just a point so we could have one. If you have suggestions let me know.
Yeah, they're slowly purging any 'negative' comments on their FB page, and no one can directly post on thier wall, only 'comment' on what they put up there. Business as usual, but keep it up this week and hopefully they'll just shut it down like thier vaunted 'Eye of Terror' forums.
Le Grognard wrote:Yeah, they're slowly purging any 'negative' comments on their FB page, and no one can directly post on thier wall, only 'comment' on what they put up there. Business as usual, but keep it up this week and hopefully they'll just shut it down like thier vaunted 'Eye of Terror' forums.
And really, the comments on their FB page were the same crap that led to their forums being shut down.
Emotionally charged dribble. If you want to be taken seriously by GW, you need to couch things in business terminology.
How about, instead of boycotting, writing angry letters, or winge on this site we all just pledge to buy used. Its a hassle, stripping paint sucks, and sometimes bits are missing but its damn cheaper and GW won't be getting nearly as much of your money (if you aren't buying kits from stores on Ebay).
Kanluwen wrote:
And really, the comments on their FB page were the same crap that led to their forums being shut down.
Emotionally charged dribble. If you want to be taken seriously by GW, you need to couch things in business terminology.
I agree. Vote with your dollars.
I am done buying new GW models at MSRP. I'll get everything else I'm interested in either via second-hand markets or use proxy miniatures from another manufacturer, as will the other three members of my gaming group. Not to be mellowdramatic, but that seems to be a common sentiment and I'm curious to see if/how GW attempts to crack-down on 2nd-hand sales via legal means in the next 12 months (or sues Mantic for copyright infringement).
As time goes on, I'll probably stop playing WFB altogether assuming the current trend on cost-to-value stays the same (in plain English: their miniatures cost too much relative to how much enjoyment I get out of them). Its a shame as I enjoy their IP and their game; however, I can't justify paying their suggested prices.
Nüb wrote:Alright the page was made, sorry it took so long I had to grab some noms. I was gonna put a picture of angry marines cause it seemed appropriate for the topic, however serious it may really be. So without further adue, please feel free to give input on anything that should be posted or updated in a format.
Stop. Please. The last thing we as GW's customers need is an angry marine representing us. They'll never take us seriously. We'll just come off as the ignorant, vitriolic, unwashed masses that they already think we are. You didn't even spell "towards" right!
In all honesty, the only way anyone of us will effect a change in the way GW does business is to leave them alone. It's not going to be Facebook pages or letter-writing campaigns. It's going to be cold, hard currency. We're going to have to buy less often, or buy secondhand. Or even buy from other companies, who will certainly put our money to better use.
So, taking a look at some of the financial reports, it looks like it backs up what many folks here have been spouting off about.
We ARE - in fact - buying less GW than we used to.
Taking a look at their 2010 financials, they report revenues of 126.5 million GBP.
Going back to 2006, they reported 115.2 million GBP.
Than an increase of about 9% (rounding up for conservatism).
Inflation is listed in the US at about 3% per year. Once again, let's be conservative and say about 2.5%. Over 4 years (2006-2010), that would predict an inflationary increase of 10%, assuming sales volume remained stable.
However, GW is seeing only a 9% increase - which add up when we're discussing 100+ million GBP.
Additionally, I do not have the price list from 2006 to compare to, but even last years price increase was considerably more than 3%.
Assuming that there had been NO OTHER price increases since 2006 (obviously not true, but once again, being conservative), then the sales VOLUME has obviously dropped.
Since there have been price increases - and not insignificant ones - it is safe to say we as consumers are not purchasing the same quantity of miniatures that we used to.
And going back a year further (the 2006 financials finally loaded) makes it even grimmer.
In 2005, GW reported income of 136.6 million GBP. So fast forward to the present, they are now bringing in less revenue before accounting for inflation. Or their price increases. I realize that we are in a recession that we are just now recovering from, but a 19% DECREASE (including 2.5% estimated inflation annually) in revenue? That is a sad story told on these reports...
Once again, that's a decrease in constant dollars. The decrease in units sold would be far higher. If anyone HAS an old price list from 2005 or 2006, I would really be interested to get some hard numbers on that. Thanks in advance to some kind soul who can hook a brother up.
Kanluwen wrote:
So where were the people calling for Pete Haines or Cavatore's heads?
There were plenty.
There were plenty of people who I remember just thought they were twits. I don't remember people calling for them to be fired or physically harmed like they do for Ward.
You might be correct. Maybe Ward's "crimes" are bigger. Or maybe it's a sign of the times that people are more eager to see someone who they feel has wronged them get hurt, and think this is acceptable behavior. The global politics of the past 10 years certainly helped reinforce that viewpoint.
necroplayer wrote:
If everyone would go a few days (three to five) without pouring our money into GW would make on hell of an impression on them.
Maybe online, but brick and mortar stores have already bought the merchandise from suppliers and the suppliers have in turn already bought from GW... imo, it might hurt your FLGS more than GW to be honest.
**EDIT** But if people orchestrated a wide-boycott of online sales... yeah, it might get their attention... I just am at odds with this news: On one hand I'm happy to have easy to mod materials, but I'm worried about melting point in the Oklahoma heat (running an errand or 2 before heading to the game-shop can get the car incredibly warm)... and I'm miffed about the price increase of course.
I realize this isn't your fault. And I realize that this doesn't affect me, as I'm in America, not the Pacific Rim, but this is breaking my heart:
Taken from Maelstrom Games
Firstly, Games Workshop's new Terms and Conditions, which come into force on the 31st of May 2011. These, among other things, restrict the sale of language products - i.e., rulebooks and codices that are not in English - and, most crucially of all, restrict the sale of all of their products to the European Union, although there are a couple of countries (such as Norway and Switzerland) that are geographically within Europe but not in the EU that we can still sell to.
The full list of countries that we can sell GW products to is as follows:
Obviously this means that all of our faithful Games Workshop customers from the Anglosphere - Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States - as well as those from Brazil, Chile, Peru, Russia, Japan and South Korea (apologies for those countries I have missed out) will now miss out on our superb service and cheap prices, but I'm afraid the terms and conditions of our contract with Games Workshop mean that we have to say goodbye.
I look at this, and I wonder what the heck went wrong, and why I'm so upset about this. And I begin to realize a couple of things:
The company you work for, and I used to work for, has lost sight of the big picture in lieu of short term gains.
And despite the egregious price inequity in AU, Games Workshop HQ won't do the right thing and drop prices to reflect the current exchange rate of GBP to AUD, because they're worried about short term profit.
Despite the Finecast models being made of a cheaper raw material (since rising metal costs were the reason pewter got the nix), prices will rise.
Games Workshop upper mangement seems slow to recognize that other choice in games now exist
All this is disheartening to me. Not because Games Workshop is some vast evil conspiracy, no, because it's my hobby, and I love it. It just makes me feel like I'm in a relationship with an neglectful spouse at times. I want to love your company so much, but you make it so damn hard to do that. I know that in the long run, I've already made your bean-counters happy with my 17 years in the hobby, but damn it, I want you all to be here when I have a kid, so I can show them what it means to be a wargamer, and how much fun I had discovering all this. I just think if GW keeps on this current path, people are going to get fed up, and drop out.
If you can, pass this along the chain. See if someone can shake some sense into the upper management at GW before it's too late.
This seems mildly childish guys? like I understand the frustration at the price increase (and a source would be nice one that btw) but at the end of the day you either play the hobby or you don't. If you have constructive criticism to give them then write a well thought out, reasonable and most importantly FACT FILLED email to HQ. Don't fill their FB page with infantile crap.
I will continue to support my local GW and will keep buying models (albeit at a slightly slower rate). What happened to getting on with your life? it's a hobby, a luxury an enjoyable way to pass the time. They don't NEED to do any of this. They enjoy it. So man the skak up and get on with it.
Maybe online, but brick and mortar stores have already bought the merchandise from suppliers and the suppliers have in turn already bought from GW... imo, it might hurt your FLGS more than GW to be honest.
Then maybe we should try and convince our local stores not to order from GW for a certain period of time because we're just not to purchase any of it until that period of time is up.
People complaining about the price hikes on Facebook may not faze Games Workshop itself, but it'll at least spread the word to a wide population that otherwise doesn't browse forums such as DakkaDakka and Warseer.
Massive complaints may not change GW's mind, but it'll get the word out to the ignorant majority.
Scottywan82 wrote:So, taking a look at some of the financial reports, it looks like it backs up what many folks here have been spouting off about.
SilverMK2's post on GW's wall wrote:I really cannot fathom just what you are doing GW. You are pricing yourself out of existence and alienating customers. Your non-announcements and utter lack of advertising outside of the “GW internal memo” style self promoting is quite fran...kly unbelievable. How can you expect to continue to exist on a continually diminishing customer base on “word of mouth” alone? LOTR was a huge chance to grab vast numbers of new players but look how that turned out. I don’t think I’ve seen a LOTR game being played in years.
Looking at your financial statements the figures show constantly declining sales "glossed over" with the raises in price helping to make up the shortfall.
The only reason you are staying afloat is because you are closing stores, cutting back the fat, etc... none of which are in any way sustainable. Is the ideal GW sales model a single guy somewhere buying a pack of 5 Space Marines for £100m? Because that seems to be where it is heading.
All the adolescent complaining is what needs to stop. What needs to continue are the coherent posts of how this is going to affect each person.
For instance, warmachine/hordes is gaining popularity locally, and instead of getting a third army or even getting into WHFB, ill instead choose Warmachine/hordes.
GW has the privilege of hearing my intentions so they can decide, with all other data, how they want to proceed. Its fine if they want to continue with their annual 5-25% price increases. It just means they won't be selling their products to me anymore.
Valhallan42nd wrote:I sent this off to GW late last night.
Dear Customer Service Representative,
I realize this isn't your fault. And I realize that this doesn't affect me, as I'm in America, not the Pacific Rim, but this is breaking my heart:
But it does affect you, albeit not to the extent that it does under the equator. Your choices of whom you can order from will drop as of the date of the new policy. I *have* ordered from wayland and maelstrom despite having an equivalent option in the states (the exchange rates were favorable at the time). I *won't* be able to as of May 28th and neither will you.
Dracos wrote:All the adolescent complaining is what needs to stop. What needs to continue are the coherent posts of how this is going to affect each person
I agree man, but ultimately, it's what happens in such a widespread, public and anonymous form of discussion. Just need to sort the wheat from the chaff (or whatever the saying goes)...
SilverMK2 wrote:
The only reason you are staying afloat is because you are closing stores, cutting back the fat, etc... none of which are in any way sustainable. Is the ideal GW sales model a single guy somewhere buying a pack of 5 Space Marines for £100m? Because that seems to be where it is heading.
Korraz wrote:
GW closed their own forums, when people started first to complain.
So let them. Let them keep sticking their heads in the sand, it will be all the more entertaining when the crash comes.
Well, that is unless for some reason known only to those on the inside they are trying to kill the company. Maybe some of the people want it to go bankrupt then buy up the IP as a private company again.
In the meantime I need to get the funds for 2 SMtac squads, 2 term squads, and 2 CSMtac squads. That should set me up with minis pretty well for the other system I use.
Would be a very small bummer if they tank before the new necrons come out...
Noisy_Marine wrote:Let GW know you care with your wallet. It's the only language they understand.
Actually, they don't even understand THAT language, as the decade long decline in total revenue (inspite yearly price hikes by about 10%), sales and customers as featured in the annual reports show. Too bad that the shareholders don't understand that language either and let the current management continue.
necroplayer wrote:
If everyone would go a few days (three to five) without pouring our money into GW would make on hell of an impression on them.
Maybe online, but brick and mortar stores have already bought the merchandise from suppliers and the suppliers have in turn already bought from GW... imo, it might hurt your FLGS more than GW to be honest.
**EDIT** But if people orchestrated a wide-boycott of online sales... yeah, it might get their attention... I just am at odds with this news: On one hand I'm happy to have easy to mod materials, but I'm worried about melting point in the Oklahoma heat (running an errand or 2 before heading to the game-shop can get the car incredibly warm)... and I'm miffed about the price increase of course.
I very rarely buy directly from GW...the vast majority comes from ebay discounters.
Dracos wrote:All the adolescent complaining is what needs to stop. What needs to continue are the coherent posts of how this is going to affect each person.
For instance, warmachine/hordes is gaining popularity locally, and instead of getting a third army or even getting into WHFB, ill instead choose Warmachine/hordes.
GW has the privilege of hearing my intentions so they can decide, with all other data, how they want to proceed. Its fine if they want to continue with their annual 5-25% price increases. It just means they won't be selling their products to me anymore.
Ive been in and out of Hordes/Warmachine three times in the past four years. Its fun for awhile, then it becomes really old really fast, as everybody has some sort one two uber cheese combo to win by turn two by killing your caster. As I said old fast. I may not like the price hikes but Ill continue playing GW, just a few more buys over the next few motnhs and Ill be done with my last two works in project.
Valhallan42nd wrote:I sent this off to GW late last night.
Dear Customer Service Representative,
If you can, pass this along the chain. See if someone can shake some sense into the upper management at GW before it's too late.
Matt
I think this is the best letter I have seen so far, nicely written and keeps to the point. I think it's important for those writing letters (and I do think that writing is a great idea) stay away from the juvenile, slightly rude sounding comments I have seen elsewhere. Remember, it's not a post on the internet that you are sending, and write like you are an adult in a business situation (which is exactly what this is_
I am going to write and post a letter from the far East. Who knows, that it costs a couple of $ to send, might well show how seriously I take this current round of changes?
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:By posting complaints about price rises, southern hemisphere embargos, smelly redshirts, a lack of news and rumours shoddy rules, lack of tourney support....
Awwww....someone's a cranky pants and needs a new hobby......
krazynadechukr wrote:
Awwww....someone's a cranky pants and needs a new hobby......
Don't need a new one, just one where I can purchse product at a similar price to people in the UK and US.
I have NO problem doing that.
You would complain if you had to pay Australian prices....
When will enough be enough? How expensive will a box of standard troops become before people start jumping ship, even now 10 space marines is close to 40$ and most vehicles are 50 and above.
The Night Stalker wrote:When will enough be enough? How expensive will a box of standard troops become before people start jumping ship, even now 10 space marines is close to 40$ and most vehicles are 50 and above.
Welcome to the world of Canadian prices my friend!
The Night Stalker wrote:When will enough be enough? How expensive will a box of standard troops become before people start jumping ship, even now 10 space marines is close to 40$ and most vehicles are 50 and above.
Welcome to the world of Canadian prices my friend!
But Canada has it worse, as the American/Canadian exchange rate does nothing to help the Canadian GW prices. Those are still much higher there than in the US for retail values.
Soon US prices will become Canadian prices and Canadian prices will become Forgeworld prices, and then the apocalypse will be at hand, for Forgeworld along with all GW prices will be so high that the fabric of reality will tear under their unstoppable mass.
Killamop wrote:What happened to getting on with your life?
Yeah! How dare people have opinions about the stuff they spend thousands of dollars on! If someone complains about the business they've been loyally supporting for years jerking them around, they must not have a life!
it's a hobby, a luxury an enjoyable way to pass the time.
And what's that got to do with the price of chips? Most of my hobbies have gone down in price over the years despite the quality of the product increasing with technology. Certainly none have increased in price far faster than the inflation rate, while simultaneously adopting cheaper materials.
They don't NEED to do any of this. They enjoy it. So man the skak up and get on with it.
What exactly are you even trying to say here? GW is doing us a service simply by existing and we should thank them for selling us anything at all?
Killamop wrote:This seems mildly childish guys? like I understand the frustration at the price increase (and a source would be nice one that btw) but at the end of the day you either play the hobby or you don't. If you have constructive criticism to give them then write a well thought out, reasonable and most importantly FACT FILLED email to HQ. Don't fill their FB page with infantile crap.
I will continue to support my local GW and will keep buying models (albeit at a slightly slower rate). What happened to getting on with your life? it's a hobby, a luxury an enjoyable way to pass the time. They don't NEED to do any of this. They enjoy it. So man the skak up and get on with it.
Next time you go to buy something, I punch you in the gut and take $5 extra.
Why you mad? Deal with it. Just get on with your life.
Killamop wrote:This seems mildly childish guys? like I understand the frustration at the price increase (and a source would be nice one that btw) but at the end of the day you either play the hobby or you don't. If you have constructive criticism to give them then write a well thought out, reasonable and most importantly FACT FILLED email to HQ. Don't fill their FB page with infantile crap.
I will continue to support my local GW and will keep buying models (albeit at a slightly slower rate). What happened to getting on with your life? it's a hobby, a luxury an enjoyable way to pass the time. They don't NEED to do any of this. They enjoy it. So man the skak up and get on with it.
Next time you go to buy something, I punch you in the gut and take $5 extra.
Why you mad? Deal with it. Just get on with your life.
People are frustrated not because they hate GW but because they actually care about their hobby and don't want to see GW Corporate continue on the path they are on and run things into the ground. This is the eternal problem big business seems to have with the Internet, they can't see past the exaggerated raging and simply dismiss everything rather than realising that there is actually some very helpful feedback being given.
DarknessEternal wrote:For shame a business try to make money. What's the world coming to.
There's a difference between a business trying to make money and a business seeing how much crap it can get away with. Prices in Australia and new Zealand are double the prices the rest of the world pays, simply because GW can get away with it? A price increase on a wide selection of models, after they have been transferred to a cheaper manufacturing technique? Consistently taking steps to alienate their own customer base? That is not the conduct of a company trying to do well in the current recession. That is a company trying to maximize short-term profits to the detriment of their customers and themselves.
You guys should not bother with facebook, at all. Even if they cared at all about the opinions of the internet, which they most emphatically do not, even the most concisely written, impassioned argument carefully crafted with 15 minutes of loving writing only takes 2 clicks to delete.
Ouze wrote:You guys should not bother with facebook, at all. Even if they cared at all about the opinions of the internet, which they most emphatically do not, even the most concisely written, impassioned argument carefully crafted with 15 minutes of loving writing only takes 2 clicks to delete.
Vimes wrote:Yeah, I´m wondering the whole time myself: How the heck could they believe that bringing all those news in rapid succession would be any good?
... .
It got the Chapter House case out of the headlines.
I don't think I've ever seen a hobby company so disturbingly out of touch, not only with it's loyal fans but with the world in general.
It's such a crying shame that this once great company that bought so much fun into our lives is now all but the bane of the very hobby it created but I don't care anymore, I'm not even living in the affected countries but I am done here. There are better things to spend my money on and to spend my time worrying about.
why is he defending GW by calling the "whiners" poor and unable to afford the game?
Because some people get off on that. "Oh, I see you drive a Ford, well I guess you couldnt afford a BMW like me", that sort of thing. Snobbery. I can see some TFG in a store somewhere saying "AH a Warmachine player, you should get a better job so you can step up to a premium game system like 40k, like I play".
I sent an e-mail too the metro herald (a free newspaper in Ireland, its reallys popular, like REALLY popular) they might run a story, probably not, but its something anyway
DarknessEternal wrote:The false sense of entitlement in this thread is staggering.
Any chance of some specifics on this? I'm not really seeing any.
People are complaining because prices are rising yet again despite cheaper materials and processes being used, massive reductions in services (through closure of stores, cutting down remaining stores to 1 man shops, etc), stopping people from paying the same price as UK/US customers who live in the ROW group rather than absurd local prices, etc.
DarknessEternal wrote:The false sense of entitlement in this thread is staggering.
Any chance of some specifics on this? I'm not really seeing any.
People are complaining because prices are rising yet again despite cheaper materials and processes being used, massive reductions in services (through closure of stores, cutting down remaining stores to 1 man shops, etc), stopping people from paying the same price as UK/US customers who live in the ROW group rather than absurd local prices, etc.
All are extremely valid complaints.
Please, I await your insights into this.
He is trying to troll by posting a deliberately inflammatory and contradictory opinion. Please don't feed the trolls.
Unfortunately, after these most recent antics, I find I no longer care about GW. Another one (vet) bows out after 20+ years with GW. Sorry, the "Fun Factor" has finally been crushed by the sweeping incompetence of GW management.
"On the 16th of May 2011 Maelstrom Games announced that Games Workshop had revised the terms and conditions of their trade agreement with independent stockists in the UK[21]. The new terms and conditions restrict the sale of all Games Workshop products to within the European Union, Norway and Switzerland"
What... Really? So now I can't get models at a some what fair price brand new.... I don't want to be spending $62 for a box of marines... not to mention a price rise... I just can't afford to dare keep up with this hobby anymore... This is indeed sad.
Well, we can see that there are quite a few of you with strong feelings about several issues, and the threads have gone a little crazy. We’re sorry many of you feel frustrated. We have read all of your comments and because we (the web dudes) don’t have the power to act on any of them, be assured that we have passed your comments on to the higher levels of management in GW.
We want to continue posting pictures of your fantastic miniatures, and link to hobby related items. We would like future threads to remain relevant to the topic in question, so everyone else can have their voice heard and enjoy the discussions about the hobby we all love.
We’ve got your comments both in this thread and on those older posts, which will remain open for you to carry on the conversation there – please, feel absolutely free to do so, we will indeed read them. But in any new threads, we want to celebrate the creative efforts of others. Any comments that stray off topic will be removed.
Just remember that we must remove any strong language and abusive users, in consideration of our youngest fans.
I quit Magic the Gathering after years of BS like this with GW. When the most expensive staple cards for a Standard deck went from $25.00 to $90.00+, I figured it was time to jump ship. People still play the game despite the problems, but I have noticed a significant decline in the Friday Night Magic attendance and the new set prereleases. Eventually the game will quit due to a "decrease in sales". "Nobody is buying our game anymore. Waaaaaa!"
I am late to respond to this but I would just like to state that this is not even close to being true. I am an avid tournament player for Magic. Back in 2007, there was a Grand Prix in Dallas/Fort Worth that had a little over 700 people attend. There was another Grand Prix in Dallas/Fort Worth earlier this year that had nearly 1500 people attend. All of the Grand Prixs have sky-rocketed in attendence and the upstart of the Starcity Games Open series has been a huge shot of adrenaline to the tournament scene for Magic. The FNM's that my local store have been getting have been through the roof since several years ago. This might not be the case everywhere, but I can at least say it is so for my FLGS.
Now, as for 40k, it has been dying off around my local store. Will this recent price hike kill off interest at my FLGS? In my opinion, only slightly.
DarknessEternal wrote:For shame a business try to make money. What's the world coming to.
There is a big difference between making a profit and gouging your customer base. Sooner or later GW is going to realize that difference. I only hope it isn't too late to fix it.
GW's incompetence , high prices , arrogance and treatment of players has caused me to lose the tiny amount of respect I used to have for the company , their are others who offer miniatures of the quality and a better price while Games Workshops overly high prices and ridiculous rules have really damaged the fans of their games.
I posted this on GW fb page and sent it as an email to GW I dont care about the price rises or changes to resin... I do care about dictators.... so many have been assassinated
To Games Workshop... Hi from Australia To whom it may concern: Please explain how you can justify enacting a busness accumen that allows a supplier to dictate to retailers who they can and cannot sell to. It is criminal to hear that northern hemisphere retailers cannot sell your products to southern hemisphere customers. I have over 100,000 points of current 40K Apocalypse GW products, and I am not finnished buying yet. I have bought from 5 GW stores in 3 States in Australia, from GW direct sales, from 3 local hobby stores, and from 2 online stores (one in Australia and one in UK)... and I have purchased from Forgeworld as well. I have been collecting since 1987 and also have over 50,000 points of GW Epic products... HOW DARE YOU tell me who I can and cannot buy from... HOW DARE YOU dictate to anyone... you sell to retailers... end of the decision making. If you dont like who buys your product.... GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS. WE buy your products... WE keep you in business... WE give you profits... and WE can take it all away from you. (Lord Castellan Mik) Brisbane Australia
Just found a great comment
Thank you for all of your comments. Your concerns will be forwarded directly to Recycle Bin until we can figure out how to put an embargo on Facebook commenting. Ridiculous. Keep tightening your grip, GW and more and more gamers will be slipping through your fingers. Hm, reminds me of a line from Star Wars.
Lord Castellan Mik wrote:I posted this on GW fb page and sent it as an email to GW I dont care about the price rises or changes to resin...
I do care about dictators.... so many have been assasinated
As nice as internet rage is, you might want to proofread if you want to be taken seriously.
blood reaper wrote:It won't shoot anything at you its a Citadel Spray Gun.
LOL (hasnt even unpacked mine yet...guess from that there doesnt seem much point in doing so!)
I think some people said that (after the initial quality-control issue) it's perfectly good for certain tasks, like base-coating tanks. It's not a true airbrush, nor does it claim to be.
Lord Castellan Mik wrote:I posted this on GW fb page and sent it as an email to GW I dont care about the price rises or changes to resin...
I do care about dictators.... so many have been assasinated
To Games Workshop... Hi from Australia
To whom it may concern: Please explain how you can justify enacting a busness accumen that allows a supplier to dictate to retailers who they can and cannot sell to. It is criminal to hear that northern hemisphere retailers cannot sell your products to southern hemisphere customers. I have over 100,000 points of current 40K Apocalypse GW products, and I am not finnished buying yet. I have bought from 5 GW stores in 3 States in Australia, from GW direct sales, from 3 local hobby stores, and from 2 online stores (one in Australia and one in UK)... and I have purchased from Forgeworld as well. I have been collecting since 1987 and also have over 50,000 points of GW Epic products... HOW DARE YOU tell me who I can and cannot buy from... HOW DARE YOU dictate to anyone... you sell to retailers... end of the decision making. If you dont like who buys your product.... GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS. WE buy your products... WE keep you in business... WE give you profits... and WE can take it all away from you.
(Lord Castellan Mik) Brisbane Australia
While I agree with the sentiment, including all caps kind of takes away from the seriousness of your comments. I'd also suggest that you post links or the actual pics into the message to prove you're not lying. Anyone can lie that they've got 100,000pts and most people won't believe a statement like that. You've actually got some pics in your dakka gallery to back it up though and those pics might garner more initial attention from facebooks visitors that a post without them.
While I agree with the sentiment, including all caps kind of takes away from the seriousness of your comments. I'd also suggest that you post links or the actual pics into the message to prove you're not lying. Anyone can lie that they've got 100,000pts and most people won't believe a statement like that. You've actually got some pics in your dakka gallery to back it up though and those pics might garner more initial attention from facebooks visitors that a post without them
.
To take that a step farther, how do I know that the army in your pic just isn't your buddie's army? Or one you just randomly found on the Internet? Just sayin'...
Dear Sir or Madam,
I am writing to you to register several complaints at your recent business decisions. As a collector and player of most of your miniature war-games for this past 15 years I am both disappointed and angered to hear of a simultaneous price increase due to the shift to ‘citadel finecast’. Indeed if this is a resin like material then it is cheaper to produce than metal. You may have additional overheads at present while the change is implemented but it is cheaper in the long run, yet you pass this cost onto the consumer. Essentially you are going to be selling a product made of a cheaper material for increased cost.
Indeed the general price increases, of over 170 of your product lines (ranging from 1%-25%) means that in this time of recession it is increasingly difficult to even begin contemplating continuing to support your business.
I believe that if you dropped your prices your sales would explode, generating more profit, as the value for money increases. In addition this would garner a lot of favor and loyalty from your target demographic.
I realise that some changes do indeed justify increased cost, however it seems as if there has been an almost regular, annual, increase in prices. Your competition is able to produce similar miniatures cheaply. While your plastic kits are indeed some of the best currently being manufactured, I am afraid to inform you they are not good value for money. Armies of all core games need more miniatures than in previous editions to become viable due to points re-structuring, lack of support for older army books/codices, as well as some wildly imbalanced codices are factors which do not stand the game in good stead.
Despite marketing yourselves as a miniatures company you must know that the games are what sell the majority of your miniatures. People collect armies to play games. While semi-official, almost casual guidelines, used to be serviceable in the 80’s and early 90’s the world has moved on. When, as a player I play a game I want to know that the rules are clear and have been well play-tested. I want to know that my army is supported. When you market an army, we as players are trusting that you will support it. For example in Warhammer 40K when/if you update Necrons or Witch Hunters in the future why should I buy them? - the miniatures alone, despite being excellent (and they will be excellent) will not justify the proposed costs if they do not get updated for almost another decade. Additionally as a player I have no guarantee of support, clear rules or regular codex updates as Games Workshop styles itself as a miniatures company. I realise that some armies are higher priority but there is a large disparity in some armybooks/codices which needs to be promptly addressed.
My final concern is the large amount of secrecy which makes it difficult to anticipate or plan one’s hobby spending accordingly. While I realise that sometimes in the complex world of manufacturing and supply things go wrong, as well as the desire to only show the best of your work, some general communication with your customers/fanbase would not go awry. If customers had some rough indication of what the next 3-6 months forecast in terms of releases then it would make life easier in terms of planning and managing armies.
Finally, your miniatures are some of (if not the) best being produced, however if people cannot afford to buy them they will unfortunatly go to cheaper systems. When I have children I would like to be able to enable them to play – they way things look at the moment this will never happen and it makes me sad.
The constant increase in price is absurd. You raise your prices about as often as petrol stations. Though unlike petrol, you never reduce price... Not even when significantly reducing your production costs. You couldn't even allow the pricing to remain static. You have absolutely no respect for your customers, in fact you don't even refer to us as 'customers'; no, we're "followers". If this is what we are then understand this... Followers have leaders and should those leaders fail to lead with honesty, integrity and fairness the followers will revolt. GW, hear me... Your customers, your followers... We have reached a break-point. The insurrection against you and you tyrannical, unethical business practices is gaining force. Us 'followers' are yearning for new leadership. Give it to us or face mutiny.
The constant increase in price is absurd. You raise your prices about as often as petrol stations. Though unlike petrol, you never reduce price... Not even when significantly reducing your production costs. You couldn't even allow the pricing to remain static. You have absolutely no respect for your customers, in fact you don't even refer to us as 'customers'; no, we're "followers". If this is what we are then understand this... Followers have leaders and should those leaders fail to lead with honesty, integrity and fairness the followers will revolt. GW, hear me... Your customers, your followers... We have reached a break-point. The insurrection against you and you tyrannical, unethical business practices is gaining force. Us 'followers' are yearning for new leadership. Give it to us or face mutiny.
I applaud anyone that takes the time to write a physical letter---rather than simply ranting on a forum.
That said, I would keep the letter as objective and non-confrontational as possible for the largest impact. A format like;
This is me
This is how long I've played the hobby and how much money I've spent on your product over the years
This is how much I enjoy your background and universe
However, this is me not being able to spend money on your product due to your practice and prices.
This is where I'll be spending my money now.
Suggestion: Customer Buy Out. Every GW customer throws £1 in to a pot, hey presto the customer becomes the majority share holder, ensuring that GW HAVE to keep us happy as SH's and customers. Win win.
kitch102 wrote:Suggestion: Customer Buy Out. Every GW customer throws £1 in to a pot, hey presto the customer becomes the majority share holder, ensuring that GW HAVE to keep us happy as SH's and customers. Win win.
If only twer possible.
Yeaaahh and you think it is hard for anyone to agree on anything now.
Mark Wells, the CEO, comments in writing "We are here to deliver a good return for our owners. And we aim to do that for a very long time." Not to be taken out of context- he's refering to not accepting awards as they're there to do well for their investors and not accept awards, but the fact that he doesn't say include "customers" in that sentence says so much to me.
IIRC, I read this thing months ago (I was going for a job there, reading financial reports aren't a hobby of mine...) and I'm sure there's something in there that says they make 75% margin on the majority of their products (when sold through GW stores). I don't begrudge a company making profits, but I remember buying a tactical squad for £10 in the late 90's / early 00's, I think that makes my point for me!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote:
kitch102 wrote:Suggestion: Customer Buy Out. Every GW customer throws £1 in to a pot, hey presto the customer becomes the majority share holder, ensuring that GW HAVE to keep us happy as SH's and customers. Win win.
If only twer possible.
Yeaaahh and you think it is hard for anyone to agree on anything now.
Completely agree with that, hence the "if only" comment.
Carrying on with the day dream though, disagreements are nothing that a vote system can't fix.
kitch102 wrote:
Completely agree with that, hence the "if only" comment.
Carrying on with the day dream though, disagreements are nothing that a vote system can't fix.
Just out of curiousity, how many successful companies are run by a democratic system? I'm not saying GW hasn't done some dumb stuff, but do you really think that the customers, who are pretty uninformed on most issues, are going to make better business decisions that are going to keep the company afloat?
I can see the first vote: 50% price reduction Yes/No.
blood reaper wrote:Just found a great comment
Thank you for all of your comments. Your concerns will be forwarded directly to Recycle Bin until we can figure out how to put an embargo on Facebook commenting. Ridiculous. Keep tightening your grip, GW and more and more gamers will be slipping through your fingers. Hm, reminds me of a line from Star Wars.
blood reaper wrote:Just found a great comment
Thank you for all of your comments. Your concerns will be forwarded directly to Recycle Bin until we can figure out how to put an embargo on Facebook commenting. Ridiculous. Keep tightening your grip, GW and more and more gamers will be slipping through your fingers. Hm, reminds me of a line from Star Wars.
The constant increase in price is absurd. You raise your prices about as often as petrol stations. Though unlike petrol, you never reduce price... Not even when significantly reducing your production costs. You couldn't even allow the pricing to remain static. You have absolutely no respect for your customers, in fact you don't even refer to us as 'customers'; no, we're "followers". If this is what we are then understand this... Followers have leaders and should those leaders fail to lead with honesty, integrity and fairness the followers will revolt. GW, hear me... Your customers, your followers... We have reached a break-point. The insurrection against you and you tyrannical, unethical business practices is gaining force. Us 'followers' are yearning for new leadership. Give it to us or face mutiny.
It's kind of threatening, but not really.
Yikes. That's special.
lol... Special indeed. I want to incite rioting, pillaging and any other form of anarchy. I want to turn gak upside down, inside out... Whine, bitch and complain like the troll I am.
(If you haven't realized by now... I'm having a laugh at all the over reaction.)
warboss wrote:At least they're efficient. They're trying to offend the largest amount of people in the shortest duration of time by raising prices, decreasing purchasing venue options, and pulling lots of figs for both determinate and indeterminate amounts of time. I marvel at their ability to shoot the entire foot off with a shotgun instead of pistol shooting individual toes off like most businesses would.
kitch102 wrote:
Completely agree with that, hence the "if only" comment.
Carrying on with the day dream though, disagreements are nothing that a vote system can't fix.
Just out of curiousity, how many successful companies are run by a democratic system? I'm not saying GW hasn't done some dumb stuff, but do you really think that the customers, who are pretty uninformed on most issues, are going to make better business decisions that are going to keep the company afloat?
I can see the first vote: 50% price reduction Yes/No.
warboss wrote:At least they're efficient. They're trying to offend the largest amount of people in the shortest duration of time by raising prices, decreasing purchasing venue options, and pulling lots of figs for both determinate and indeterminate amounts of time. I marvel at their ability to shoot the entire foot off with a shotgun instead of pistol shooting individual toes off like most businesses would.
You just won the internet.
WOOT! Now I'll just go stand in line behind the chocolate rain kid to collect my millions!
In addition to sending a letter to GW proper----I spoke with a rep for 5-10 minutes RE: their recent policies and he said believe it/or not---they actually do file such calls. So if you have 3 minutes and you're bored. Probably won't do much---but hey you never know when someone will get frustrated and shoot an email to the right person.
And they'll keep filing calls, up until the point that they become too numerous. Remember, this is the company that decided that closing down their own forums was better than addressing the concerns of their customers.
One thing is for sure, if this ramps up much more, and becomes visible to their shareholders, they're going to go into damage control mode to try and head off their shareholders from dumping stock in what looks to be an unstable investment.
It'll have to impact their financials first, though, and it'll have to be visible enough to get the corporate types to take it seriously - no small feat. Vote with your $$$, that is all they care about. If you whine and complain, they'll just ignore you, but if you use $$$ against them, they cannot ignore you.
Their beast must be fed, starve it, and it'll change it's tune.
It's easy to let shareholders know of GW's incompetance in the eyes of their consumers.
Many stock site have comment sections for each company's stock.
Of course you cant just go in bad mouthing the company to be taken seriously, but if you have any stock market savvy and present the details with links in a clear matter, they do get recognized.
I recall something similar being done the last time GW's stocks were plummeting.
If course in that instance, I used it to get better prices on my shares of GW stocks when I shorted it a couple months later trebling my money. But the message was still clear. Shareholders beware of long stock hold. In other words, not worthy of long term investment and only good for riding fad waves such as what will be seen when the new Hobbit movie hits, etc.
Thrax wrote:One thing is for sure, if this ramps up much more, and becomes visible to their shareholders, they're going to go into damage control mode to try and head off their shareholders from dumping stock in what looks to be an unstable investment.
It'll have to impact their financials first, though, and it'll have to be visible enough to get the corporate types to take it seriously - no small feat. Vote with your $$$, that is all they care about. If you whine and complain, they'll just ignore you, but if you use $$$ against them, they cannot ignore you.
Their beast must be fed, starve it, and it'll change it's tune.
Good point. But i'm wondering if the hardcore gamers do this will it make a difference. Considering the GW policy of bagging the newbs into spending a few hundred bucks i don't know if this would make a difference.
Thrax wrote:One thing is for sure, if this ramps up much more, and becomes visible to their shareholders, they're going to go into damage control mode to try and head off their shareholders from dumping stock in what looks to be an unstable investment.
It'll have to impact their financials first, though, and it'll have to be visible enough to get the corporate types to take it seriously - no small feat. Vote with your $$$, that is all they care about. If you whine and complain, they'll just ignore you, but if you use $$$ against them, they cannot ignore you.
Their beast must be fed, starve it, and it'll change it's tune.
Good point. But i'm wondering if the hardcore gamers do this will it make a difference. Considering the GW policy of bagging the newbs into spending a few hundred bucks i don't know if this would make a difference.
Likely not to the extent that people are hoping. However, it's a better alternative than raging hard and having that energy go to waste. I empathize with everyone who's upset with GW right now, but I also know the nature of the beast. Wells would like people to think they're helpless vs. his agenda, and to an extent he's right, but if the customer base as a whole shifts dramatically in one of many ways, he'll be all about that legendary customer service once again.
Just a thought, could one way to damage GW sales without affecting your own hobby be to not use their paints/hobby materials?
Understandably many people want to keep using their models, even if they are unhappy with the way they are being treated by GW, but switching to using other paints and not purchasing other GW hobby materials should still damage their sales - albeit not that much, but every little helps - whilst not changing your hobby experience.
Just Dave wrote:Just a thought, could one way to damage GW sales without affecting your own hobby be to not use their paints/hobby materials?
Understandably many people want to keep using their models, even if they are unhappy with the way they are being treated by GW, but switching to using other paints and not purchasing other GW hobby materials should still damage their sales - albeit not that much, but every little helps - whilst not changing your hobby experience.
If they could make the connection that we were not buying their paints/hobby materials because we were pissed at them over recent decisions. Personally I do not think they would ever make the connection...
Just Dave wrote:Just a thought, could one way to damage GW sales without affecting your own hobby be to not use their paints/hobby materials?
Understandably many people want to keep using their models, even if they are unhappy with the way they are being treated by GW, but switching to using other paints and not purchasing other GW hobby materials should still damage their sales - albeit not that much, but every little helps - whilst not changing your hobby experience.
I had a vague idea like this, except I was thinking about a specific model range, but yes targetting modelling materials/tools/paints is a good idea, particularly as the quality of these products isn't that great anyway. As Scythican says a) loads of people would have to sign up to it and b) they would have to know we were doing it.
Just Dave wrote:Just a thought, could one way to damage GW sales without affecting your own hobby be to not use their paints/hobby materials?
Understandably many people want to keep using their models, even if they are unhappy with the way they are being treated by GW, but switching to using other paints and not purchasing other GW hobby materials should still damage their sales - albeit not that much, but every little helps - whilst not changing your hobby experience.
I had a vague idea like this, except I was thinking about a specific model range, but yes targetting modelling materials/tools/paints is a good idea, particularly as the quality of these products isn't that great anyway. As Scythican says a) loads of people would have to sign up to it and b) they would have to know we were doing it.
Just Dave wrote:Just a thought, could one way to damage GW sales without affecting your own hobby be to not use their paints/hobby materials?
Understandably many people want to keep using their models, even if they are unhappy with the way they are being treated by GW, but switching to using other paints and not purchasing other GW hobby materials should still damage their sales - albeit not that much, but every little helps - whilst not changing your hobby experience.
And so the waffling begins!
No, this will not work. If players have to invent strategies to feel like they've protested while still enabling them to buy GW product, then GW still has them by the gonads. You still think you need their product. And as long as you think that, GW can do whatever they want with you. The only thing that will affect company policy is not buying their product period. There are plenty of better games out there and there are plenty of better models. The only thing GW has going for it is being established as a franchise that is well-recognized. They've laid the ground work in getting players onto a common ruleset and game system. If players are really sick of GW gouging them, then it's time that players take responsibility for their own games.
Just Dave wrote:Just a thought, could one way to damage GW sales without affecting your own hobby be to not use their paints/hobby materials?
Understandably many people want to keep using their models, even if they are unhappy with the way they are being treated by GW, but switching to using other paints and not purchasing other GW hobby materials should still damage their sales - albeit not that much, but every little helps - whilst not changing your hobby experience.
And so the waffling begins!
Possibly, but who's to say that things like the Great Fan Push Back didn't cause a drop in sales... and subsequently gave GW an excuse to raise prices
Realistically, I think GW will see a steep drop in sales this year, but they'll come up with their own vague reasons (it was a hot summer and everyone went down the beach, quick raise prices, that'll bring them back), but it would be good if there was some form of publicised co-ordinated protest to kick GW in the balls and let them know they were being kicked in the balls. Something like non-attendance of Games Day.
Just Dave wrote:Just a thought, could one way to damage GW sales without affecting your own hobby be to not use their paints/hobby materials?
Understandably many people want to keep using their models, even if they are unhappy with the way they are being treated by GW, but switching to using other paints and not purchasing other GW hobby materials should still damage their sales - albeit not that much, but every little helps - whilst not changing your hobby experience.
Too late. A lot of people already do this. Many people use Vallejo or others. The generic acrylic paint that you can find in Michael's or other craft stores also works just as well.
Does the idea that citadel paints are necessary for GW models come from the idea that many people have that GW is "the hobby?"
Just Dave wrote:Just a thought, could one way to damage GW sales without affecting your own hobby be to not use their paints/hobby materials?
Understandably many people want to keep using their models, even if they are unhappy with the way they are being treated by GW, but switching to using other paints and not purchasing other GW hobby materials should still damage their sales - albeit not that much, but every little helps - whilst not changing your hobby experience.
Too late. A lot of people already do this. Many people use Vallejo or others. The generic acrylic paint that you can find in Michael's or other craft stores also works just as well.
Does the idea that citadel paints are necessary for GW models come from the idea that many people have that GW is "the hobby?"
No, it comes from the "idea" that Citadel paints are easier for many people to work with, have a pretty big selection of colors, the boxes and GW painting articles that most people are introduced to when they're first starting out all use Citadel's paints, and what's more: GW and pretty much any independent store who sells their stuff stocks them.
Are they the best paints out there for someone who knows how to color match or do their own mixes to approximate colors? No, they're really not.
But are they bad? Not by a long shot. They're just expensive as all getout for the most part.
CAse is point. Pink Horrors. number of pink's made by GW 1 or 0 Number I've gathered for mine. 13. Then the wifey decides that her colors are set for her brets......
Cutting out just the hobby stuff is minor as people use all sorts of products.
The only thing I can think of that would get their full attention would be a full page advert in a national newspaper. The media would certainly be interested as to why wargames fans were so angry with a company. It would also put the wind up shareholders. I see it as a way to raise genuine concerns without being abusive.
If I had a dollar for everytime i read a thread like this on Dakka I'd have about 17 dollars!!
I'll say what I usually say on these kinds of threads:
Nobody forces you to buy GW stuff. Plenty of cheap minis from all sorts of companys. Ditto that for paints brushes etc. I probably spend more on vodka than I do the hobby, so I don't resent the odd price rise.
I don't want to take anything away from people's anger, but I've been in the hobby a long time (20+ years) and I've seen a lot of things like this go on from GW. My advice would be to adapt. Make your own terrain, buy cheaper stuff from other stores etc
Going and yelling at the web team will acomplish nothing. It is like going to a supermarket and complaining to a shelf stacker, he has no control over what the company does, he just works for them. Futhermore the amount of buisness "experts" that seem to know everything about model making don't know what is happening behind gw's closed doors.
People are asking for a form letter. I posted one in the price rise thread. Feel free to use it. I've also posted it on the fb page, though I get the feeling they'll remove it.
FYI, used to work for an indie stockist. Got me into the hobby. 6 years ago. Prices have increased for battleforces and contents lowered since then.
Started at €50, last time I checked, €80. In 6 years.
Black Library (GW publishing arm) is selling eBooks online to the world
From Australia we even pay more for electronic stock
The new story "Midnight on the street of knives" is GBP1.50, but we pay AU$5.99... even though the exchange rate for the last 2 years has been in the vicinity of AU$2.28
oni wrote:Someone get Anonymous to take down their web store. That will hurt profits.
That would be interesting as it is a corrupt company that does need to get their head back in gear. Just shoot Anonymous an email about what GW has been exactly doing. Of course I can't really say they will do anything plus it would be a bad idea. Knowing them
Also I commented on it saying, what the helk oh well Time to play sc2 and blizzard games...
Hey all, I had an account here a long time ago, apparently lost to the Warp. I lurk here, post on Warseer. HBMC and I go waaay back over on Spacebattles. I've been following the conversation on this entire debacle and wrote an editorial for a blog/podcast I'm a part of here in New York, Tabletop Hooligans. Incorporated into it is some stuff I've seen in some threads here on DakkaDakka, and I wanted to post a link here to give everyone an opportunity to see it. I specifically wanted to thank to guys who posted the customer service numbers and the UK mailing addresses for Games Workshop. Who knows, maybe we can make a difference.
Slacker - that was an extremely well-written and informative editorial. Well done, sir. That's the kind of level-headed writing we need to get across to other fans, and most importanly, GW itself - that we're not just "nerdraging" or whining, but that we're honestly upset about things and we HAVE thought things through and done our research before making this decision. Carries a lot more weight behind it than simply moaning and screaming.
Slacker wrote:Hey all, I had an account here a long time ago, apparently lost to the Warp. I lurk here, post on Warseer. HBMC and I go waaay back over on Spacebattles. I've been following the conversation on this entire debacle and wrote an editorial for a blog/podcast I'm a part of here in New York, Tabletop Hooligans. Incorporated into it is some stuff I've seen in some threads here on DakkaDakka, and I wanted to post a link here to give everyone an opportunity to see it. I specifically wanted to thank to guys who posted the customer service numbers and the UK mailing addresses for Games Workshop. Who knows, maybe we can make a difference.
Fantastic. This is exactly what I was hoping to see. Everyone that cares about their hobby needs to get serious, right now, if they expect to be able to enjoy it for even another year. GW is headed for a trainwreck and clearly they need some collective input to "right the ship" if you will.
People need to stop posting internet flames, stop whining within the walls of their FLGS, and start making the types of positive contributions, such as this article suggests, that will bring our hobby back from the brink.
Some of you may not yet be convinced that things are truly all that bad, or that they will ever be - but if you sit this out, you will find that this is not a all-of-a-sudden thing, and GW is literally taking our hobby away from us. With their latest garbage they've effectively taken half the globe out of the hobby via pricing it beyond people's means. With these yearly price hikes, this WILL BE THE REST OF US before you realize it.
Act now. Be courteous and mature. Tell GW you're walking away until they address the community in a way that is more than patronizing, and let them call your bluff. Stand firm. They won't last a year if we all cut back. Their stock will slip and they will re-evaluate this strategy.
Your alternative is to wait. To wait and enjoy the same fate as Australia and NZ in a few more years, when a box of tactical marines costs as much as a battleforce.
Trust me, I am not normally someone to "call people to arms" over the internet - but if you sincerely care about this hobby even a little, you need to follow through with due diligence and do what you can, legally and maturely, to protect your investment in it.
Let's put it this way-last time I was here, Warseer was still Portent. And I think the forums were green.
And for the guys who haven't been in the hobby as long as some of us and don't quite get what the big deal is all about-ten years ago, a tactical squad ran $20. Now it's $40, going to $44? Or $45? Whatever the new price increase is. Sure, they added a bitz sprue. That's great. Fantastic. So I don't have to order the $4 assault weapon sprue from GW...oh, wait, you didn't know that you used to be able to get a meltagun and a plasma gun and some random other crap from GW for $4 back in the day? Yeah. I'm sorry, the extra shoulder pads and doodads are NOT worth twenty bucks. I put my space marines from 2001 next to my space marines from 2011, and they don't look any different.
You need something unique for them to take notice. For example, if everyone at a GW tournament, or a games day, or other large GW event does something at the actual event right in their face (im not talking about pulling punches btw =p) its alot harder for them to sweep it under the rug.
There's a problem with that-Games Workshop doesn't actually run any events in the United States aside from Gamesday, and that requires you to spend an inordinate amount of money that goes *directly* into GW's pocket in order to attend. That completely negates the entire point of a boycott.
Slacker wrote:There's a problem with that-Games Workshop doesn't actually run any events in the United States aside from Gamesday, and that requires you to spend an inordinate amount of money that goes *directly* into GW's pocket in order to attend. That completely negates the entire point of a boycott.
Nothing stops you from boycotting outside of the event. If you gather enough people you could even have someone phone-in the local news, as they love that sort of thing. Lot better than the usual "Hey guys, another murder down on main, but stick around for more sports!"
Well, honestly, the better goal would be to generate so much mail and phone traffic that investors find out and spike the stock price. THAT is the more effective way to get results. Nothing is going to have a more serious impact on what we want to do than negatively impacting Games Workshop's stock price. Nothing.
Slacker wrote:Well, honestly, the better goal would be to generate so much mail and phone traffic that investors find out and spike the stock price. THAT is the more effective way to get results. Nothing is going to have a more serious impact on what we want to do than negatively impacting Games Workshop's stock price. Nothing.
As would bad press, and I mean, admit it, we Americans get riled up as it is over "Wall-Street screwing the poor", if the media got a hold of this and ran with it, GW would have bigger worries. This is of course before you take into account that most Americans who would see such a news story would instantly be offended by "Some foreigners" ripping off the "honest working joes" of America, irregardless of the fact that you needed more money to play warhammer than most would think of spending on plastic space soldiers.
Oh, of course. I'm honestly not sure how one could actually get this into the media, short of a significant letter writing campaign or something on the internet going viral. Don't get me wrong, my blog post is doing rather well in terms of getting reposted, but it's not doing *that* well. Thoughts?
Slacker wrote:Oh, of course. I'm honestly not sure how one could actually get this into the media, short of a significant letter writing campaign or something on the internet going viral. Don't get me wrong, my blog post is doing rather well in terms of getting reposted, but it's not doing *that* well. Thoughts?
Gather enough people for a protest in front of the event center, and phone the local media, most local news-stations have a phone number you can call for tips/breaking news. Surely if you had enough people it would make a small mention in the least. Now were such a thing to happen, think of those who sit at home and play WH/WH40K or browse the forums, but didn't know about the protest, this in turn draws more people, which in turn draws more attention. Besides, GW may have done some daft moves of late, but even they can see an angry mob outside the doors of their biggest/only event in america, complete with news-crews. I may not have the specifics of the whole plan, but I got the right idea going, at least it's better than the malarky coming out of GWHQ.
Certainly a large group protesting outside of Gamesday might have an impact, but that's in the summer, and may well be too late to be effective. There's no significant Hobby Centers here in New York to protest outside of-the two GW run stores in the City are literally bad jokes, and when I said they would fit in our LGS's storage closet, I wasn't exaggerating very much. Certainly combined they have less floor space then the basement, which is solely used as a storage room. Not much of a point in protesting out in front of them. I think in the interim before Gamesday, some sort of combined phone call/letter writing campaign coupled with trying to get a media spotlight on the issue may be our best bet.
Slacker wrote:Certainly a large group protesting outside of Gamesday might have an impact, but that's in the summer, and may well be too late to be effective. There's no significant Hobby Centers here in New York to protest outside of-the two GW run stores in the City are literally bad jokes, and when I said they would fit in our LGS's storage closet, I wasn't exaggerating very much. Certainly combined they have less floor space then the basement, which is solely used as a storage room. Not much of a point in protesting out in front of them. I think in the interim before Gamesday, some sort of combined phone call/letter writing campaign coupled with trying to get a media spotlight on the issue may be our best bet.
Everyone could mail GW a bag of marbles with a note attached that says "We heard you lost these"
*snorts*
That remains an option, sort of in the vein of the old "Save our show" bits people did with TV shows. I think just doing letters may be the way to go for now, but who knows, we can always keep that in mind as the nuclear option.
Or one of us can hit it big in the Mega-millions lottery and become the majority stock holder.
Slacker wrote:Hey all, I had an account here a long time ago, apparently lost to the Warp. I lurk here, post on Warseer. HBMC and I go waaay back over on Spacebattles. I've been following the conversation on this entire debacle and wrote an editorial for a blog/podcast I'm a part of here in New York, Tabletop Hooligans. Incorporated into it is some stuff I've seen in some threads here on DakkaDakka, and I wanted to post a link here to give everyone an opportunity to see it. I specifically wanted to thank to guys who posted the customer service numbers and the UK mailing addresses for Games Workshop. Who knows, maybe we can make a difference.
Fantastic. This is exactly what I was hoping to see. Everyone that cares about their hobby needs to get serious, right now, if they expect to be able to enjoy it for even another year. GW is headed for a trainwreck and clearly they need some collective input to "right the ship" if you will.
People need to stop posting internet flames, stop whining within the walls of their FLGS, and start making the types of positive contributions, such as this article suggests, that will bring our hobby back from the brink.
Some of you may not yet be convinced that things are truly all that bad, or that they will ever be - but if you sit this out, you will find that this is not a all-of-a-sudden thing, and GW is literally taking our hobby away from us. With their latest garbage they've effectively taken half the globe out of the hobby via pricing it beyond people's means. With these yearly price hikes, this WILL BE THE REST OF US before you realize it.
Act now. Be courteous and mature. Tell GW you're walking away until they address the community in a way that is more than patronizing, and let them call your bluff. Stand firm. They won't last a year if we all cut back. Their stock will slip and they will re-evaluate this strategy.
Your alternative is to wait. To wait and enjoy the same fate as Australia and NZ in a few more years, when a box of tactical marines costs as much as a battleforce.
Trust me, I am not normally someone to "call people to arms" over the internet - but if you sincerely care about this hobby even a little, you need to follow through with due diligence and do what you can, legally and maturely, to protect your investment in it.
ive just wrote a couple of letters which should be winging their way to hq by tomorrow.
Slacker wrote:Hey all, I had an account here a long time ago, apparently lost to the Warp. I lurk here, post on Warseer. HBMC and I go waaay back over on Spacebattles. I've been following the conversation on this entire debacle and wrote an editorial for a blog/podcast I'm a part of here in New York, Tabletop Hooligans. Incorporated into it is some stuff I've seen in some threads here on DakkaDakka, and I wanted to post a link here to give everyone an opportunity to see it. I specifically wanted to thank to guys who posted the customer service numbers and the UK mailing addresses for Games Workshop. Who knows, maybe we can make a difference.
Fantastic. This is exactly what I was hoping to see. Everyone that cares about their hobby needs to get serious, right now, if they expect to be able to enjoy it for even another year. GW is headed for a trainwreck and clearly they need some collective input to "right the ship" if you will.
People need to stop posting internet flames, stop whining within the walls of their FLGS, and start making the types of positive contributions, such as this article suggests, that will bring our hobby back from the brink.
Some of you may not yet be convinced that things are truly all that bad, or that they will ever be - but if you sit this out, you will find that this is not a all-of-a-sudden thing, and GW is literally taking our hobby away from us. With their latest garbage they've effectively taken half the globe out of the hobby via pricing it beyond people's means. With these yearly price hikes, this WILL BE THE REST OF US before you realize it.
Act now. Be courteous and mature. Tell GW you're walking away until they address the community in a way that is more than patronizing, and let them call your bluff. Stand firm. They won't last a year if we all cut back. Their stock will slip and they will re-evaluate this strategy.
Your alternative is to wait. To wait and enjoy the same fate as Australia and NZ in a few more years, when a box of tactical marines costs as much as a battleforce.
Trust me, I am not normally someone to "call people to arms" over the internet - but if you sincerely care about this hobby even a little, you need to follow through with due diligence and do what you can, legally and maturely, to protect your investment in it.
ive just wrote a couple of letters which should be winging their way to hq by tomorrow.
I actually want to thank you and the rest who have done this. Seriously. Collectively we can save our hobby, but we've got to get real about it and actually tell GW what we expect if they're to continue their revenue stream off the backs of our hard earned wages.
I appreciate the intent and goodwill of some of our overseas brothers, however, if you want to research and comment on Australian wages and our complaints of higher mark-ups for GW products… then please use the appropriate tables and not advertisement, marketing or statistical hype and propaganda. As you can see, the Government figures are based upon statistics without a thought for reality. While the reality is that most workers are well below advertised averages unless they work well above average overtime, or are management or highly paid executives… hence the blowout of the statistical average wage for the non-average worker.
The Governmental advertising hype for potential immigrants:
Average full-time earnings in Australia were $64,641 per annum in 2010. (According to the Bureau of Statistics.) If overtime and bonuses are included, earnings were $67,116 per annum. The average male wage (ordinary time earnings) in Australia is $69,233 per annum. With overtime, this rises to $69,997. The average female wage (ordinary time earnings) in Australia is $56,950 per annum. With overtime, this rises to $57,704. Australia's best-paid workers are miners, whose ordinary earnings average $103,111 a year. Next come professional, scientific and technical services workers who average $77,761 per annum. Retail workers average $48,703. The poorest wages are found in the accommodation and restaurant sector where full-time workers earn $46,306 on average.
The reality according to Australian Industry Awards: Most workers are at Level 2
Slacker wrote:HBMC and I go waaay back over on Spacebattles.
Heya Slack. Nice to see you still kickin' around.
Nice article, but I did find this line amusing:
"I want to thank all the people participating in the discussions taking place on ... Spacebattles."
Really? There's a conversation on this taking place at SB.com? Hadn't noticed. Good news - I've been a Mod there for a decade (if not more) so I can ban those accursed apologists!
Well, there wasn't *much* of a discussion, but I felt the need to acknowledge what little there was. There's actually more going on now at Stardestroyer on the topic I started when I posted my article on the topic, but *eh*.
Slacker wrote:Well, honestly, the better goal would be to generate so much mail and phone traffic that investors find out and spike the stock price. THAT is the more effective way to get results. Nothing is going to have a more serious impact on what we want to do than negatively impacting Games Workshop's stock price. Nothing.
As would bad press, and I mean, admit it, we Americans get riled up as it is over "Wall-Street screwing the poor", if the media got a hold of this and ran with it, GW would have bigger worries. This is of course before you take into account that most Americans who would see such a news story would instantly be offended by "Some foreigners" ripping off the "honest working joes" of America, irregardless of the fact that you needed more money to play warhammer than most would think of spending on plastic space soldiers.
I know what'll make GW lower prices!!
Falling profit margins due to bad press! It'll make them lose money, so they'll thank us for pointing out the error of their ways by lowering prices!
During their "everything must go" clearout sale.
Causing them to lose profit isn't going to make them act any nicer towards you. You're suggesting that we become the terrorists of the hobby world, causing mass profit decreases because GW did stuff that we don't agree with.
Slacker wrote:Well, there wasn't *much* of a discussion, but I felt the need to acknowledge what little there was. There's actually more going on now at Stardestroyer on the topic I started when I posted my article on the topic, but *eh*.
I can't ban people at SD.net Slack - how does this help me?
Late to the party, but here's my lengthy 2 cents. Can someone PM me the mailing address again? I can't seem to find it in the huge mess of threads. I'm taking suggestions too, as I feel that this is overly long and wall-of-text-ish.
Dear Mr. Wells.
As a long time Games Workshop customer, due to your recent policy announcements, I feel compelled to write to you in order to voice my concerns about the hobby's medium to long term health.
I've been a customer since 2nd Edition Warhammer 40 000. Coming from this old school of gamers, I learned early on to adopt a "pay where you play" mentality. After all, if you didn't support your local gaming establishment in exchange for using its facilities, there was no guarantee that it would continue to operate. As such, I support any action by Games Workshop to support their retail chain and brick and mortar independent retailers. Without any doubt, the face of gaming has changed greatly since that time, and with the prevalence of the internet, so has the worldview of most gamers. When I first joined the hobby, gamers were once concentrated around their local game stores to meet like-minded individuals. Those stores not only provided a place to play, but a venue to hang out, swap ideas, show off your new conversion or paint scheme or learn new tactics, modeling and painting techniques. These days, you can do almost all of that over the internet, and gamers definitely feel less of an attachment to their game stores. The one thing that game stores offer that cannot be replaced by the internet is playing physical games and the running of events. In my experience, it is this "value added" approach that draws gamers to the stores and keeps them coming back. Over the years, your Games Workshop retail chain performed an excellent job of providing this value added experience, as did White Dwarf magazine. This brings me to the first of my concerns.
The move to one man stores greatly concerns me as this seems to run contrary to the value-added store based model. While they may have been a necessary cost cutting measure, the one man stores can only offer the full hobby experience to fewer customers due to limits on what one staffer can do at one time, at reduced hours. A strong indicator is the stark change from painted preview models to unpainted preview models. In addition, the changes over the last few years to how information is released via trade services to the retail chain, independent retailers and the general public also troubles me. New product was once announced far in advance through White Dwarf magazine. As of late, staffers seem to be informed of new developments mere weeks before they hit the streets. This lack of information and inability to speak to rumours is frustrating to both the staff and the customers, and undermines the value of the stores as a source of information.
At its core, the main "value" of the Games Workshop hobby is providing a great modeling experience and gaming with like minded individuals. As such, attending events are one of the biggest value-added aspects of the hobby. Sadly, there has been a significant decrease in the number of official Games Workshop events held across North America over the last several years, from dozens to just Games Day in Chicago. Leagues, tournaments with limited edition tournament prize support and battle tours seem to be a thing of the past. It is with fond memories that I recall the amazing Dark Eldar slave raid table that the Canadian retail team made for Canadian Games Day back in the late 90's. It is with pride that I display on my shelf my Games Workshop Rogue Trader sportsmanship plaque that I won back in the early 2000's. It is with a sense of accomplishment that I entered the Warpstone painting contests at your Conflict events. It was with excitement that I fought to repel the Thousand Sons from the Eldar webway during the Eye of Terror battle campaign. These events all added richness and value to the Games Workshop hobby. Maybe they put a drain on company resources during a critical time, but I feel their absence makes the hobby a poorer place, and I am genuinely saddened when I think of the gamers that never knew this time.
Before the Oakville Battle Bunker was closed in Canada, I was disappointed to find that this store did not stock the entire range and that customers would still have to special order in the ever growing list of "direct only" and "specialist games" models. To me, this seemed counterintuitive as the "Battle Bunker" series of stores always had a kind of mystique as a kind of gaming Mecca, second only to the Nottingham HQ - which justifiably or not, raised my expectations of the services that it would offer. While it may not make financial sense to stock all the stores with the full range, has there been any thought to having regional flagship stores which do stock the entire range? While the online shipping options are very fast, there is something about being able to walk in to a location and be able to pull product directly from a shelf.
Finally, I'd like to touch briefly on some of the complaints written by Australian gamers over your decision to limit sales from UK retailers to the Eurozone. Again, I think that price is not so much the issue as perceived value. The internet has brought gamers together like never before, and made gamers acutely aware of what is happening in other parts of the world. While I appreciate the explanation that it costs more to run operations in Oceana, this does nothing to change the reality that buying at Australian MSRP is numerically poor value when compared to the rest of the world. As a Canadian gamer, I certainly understand where they are coming from, as Canadian prices are significantly higher than US MSRP, despite being directly adjacent to, having a stronger dollar and sharing the same regional and supply arms of Games Workshop as the United States. Due to the gamers’ disposition towards immediate gratification, one might expect that most web sales come from those without easy access to a local store. (Granted, Direct Services does muddy the waters a bit). Perhaps a possible solution is to separate the web store arm from the regional arms, allowing for more standardized pricing, pegged against the GBP and/or US dollar with bi-annual adjustments for currency fluctuation.
That aside, the quality of your models has never been better. It is with some anticipation that my gaming group awaits the release date of the Finecast line. Hopefully some conversion kits such as alternate heads and weapons packs are in the works. However, I think that the tipping point is fast approaching where selling on the quality of the models alone is no longer provides enough value in the minds of the consumer. We remain hopeful that under your leadership, we can look forward to a return the days of sneak peeks of incomplete concepts to capture our imaginations, more contests to stoke our creativity and increased corporate run events to satisfy our competitive itches.
Here’s to the hope that we’ll soon return to a Golden Age of Gaming.
"Nobody is buying our game anymore. Waaaaaa!"
