We’re pleased to announce the latest details and info for the DaBoyz Grand Tournament. This is the sixth year in a row we are running the event.

The 2011 DaBoyz GT will be held October 21, 22, and 23, 2011. This will be a three day event, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
Updated rules can be found at our brand new website:
http://www.daboyzgt.com

Ticket Sales and Registration
Ticket sales are now live! Ticket ordering information and the hotel discount can be found on the web site. Additional events will be added as they are confirmed.

http://www.daboyzgt.com


Sponsorship
We want to thank the fantastic sponsorship we got from last year. This sponsorship has grown for this year. We are very grateful for all the donations we have received. Thanks to the generosity of our sponsors last year, we offered a huge array of perks and rewards for our attendees. We’re very grateful for the generous donations for our gaming and charity events, and for the time and assistance we received from our volunteer staffers.


Location
The 2011 DaBoyz GT is being held at:
Main Street Armory, 900 Main Street Armory. Rochester, NY
http://www.rochestermainstreetarmory.com/
It is located in downtown Rochester close to several hotels and restaurants. The Armory itself is over 10,000 Sq. Ft. Space that includes its own restaurant. The armory will also have a cash bar and vending stand with a buffet to sell food throughout the weekend.


The Event
The event features a two-day, 6 games, 120-player Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament. This will take place on Saturday and Sunday. There will also be Warhammer Fantasy Independent Tournament. Both tournaments are part of the National Tournament and will be given invites from Games Workshop for the Nationals in 2012. The National tournament will be held at the end of the Indy GT season.
Also on Friday this year, we will be running an America Team Event.
Other great events and features include:
• A food and cash bar will be available in the gaming hall. A full service restaurant is also located inside the same building.
• Shuttle service to and from local hotels and the Rochester airport.
• Large Apocalypse event.
• Great prizes, cool swag, and t-shirts

• Vendors area

Limited space is still available for clubs to run events and for retailers in the dealer room. Also welcome are volunteers to help with convention staffing. If you’d like to be a part of one of the premiere events in the Northeast, contact us today!

Well, that comp is certainly unforgiving if you want to take a good list to murder face with.

Wow, the Armory, I love that place. Very cool venue for the event.

Maybe since moving my curse has been lifted and I'll finally be able to attend a GT. Here's hoping.

Kurgash wrote:Well, that comp is certainly unforgiving if you want to take a good list to murder face with.

That comp is unforgiving unless you build anything less than an army particularly for this tournament.

It's the worst example of "forcing us to play with the toys THEY want us to play with" that I've ever seen.


It's ok though...it's easy enough to skip that tourney and go to one that's more "player friendly". Good luck with the tournement at any rate.

That is a seriously nasty comp sheet. I'd have to play around with it to see how to break it.

For fun a quick look. Ouch, my all foot loganwing is at -10 (starting at 80). My Deathwing is actually at 40 and so barely legal to play. My Orks on the other hand come in at an awesome -120

I must build total D-bag lists

wish y'all luck.

Hi

Looking forward to attending again this year. It's always a blast. Last year, I got to play 3 members of Team America, defeating 2 and narrowly losing to Space Curves on the secondary objective while drawing the other two.

Hulk, I think you are missing their point about their comp system. The comp is intended to encourage variety and really has nothing to do with power level. That being said, it certainly changes what a powerful army might be/look like...

My variety driven Ork army from 2010 scores a perfect 80, my Tau list from 2009 on the other hand a paltry 25, while my Necrons fails with -10 thanks to plenty of repetition and the inclusion of NightBringer, who I assume is a "named/special character." Of the three, I think my Orks are the best list in terms of power, but it has plenty of variety.

Cheers,
Nate

I agree with Carlos

I went last year and had a blast with my Tau and scored max comp points. I'm looking forward to this.

Oh yea, not to mention Rochester has Yeuling on tap

I didn't miss the point. I get that it's to encourage variety. I'm just not a fan of the named character dropping you by 25% off the total starting and 40% from the "playable" allowance. On that note why even have 30pts being "playable"? Why not start at 50 and you need to have a score to play?

There are other things that annoy me about it but it does make my choice of attendance a little easier. Not saying it's not a great event because I hear it is. It'll probably sell out again and be a blast to attend. I personally can't justify a plane ticket to attend it. Good luck to those attending as I'm sure it'll be great. Jay and them run a top knotch event.

On that note why even have 30pts being "playable"? Why not start at 50 and you need to have a score to play?

carlosthecraven wrote:
The comp is intended to encourage variety and really has nothing to do with power level.

Ummm...why?

After all, GW itself doesnt...if you've seen any of the recent codexes.

Same weekend as the Ard Boyz finals. Not a big deal for most folks....just saying.

Obviously you will encourage variety by limiting the options, anyone with half a brain could see that.

Here's my potential list (with max points, if I did the math properly)

CCS, LC, Banner, astropath
5x stormtroopers, melta x2
2x Melta vets in chimera
melta vets
Penal Legion
PCS w/ flamer x4
4x Infantry squad with meltas, autocannons, pwoer weapons, 1x commissar w/ power weapon

Valyrie
Vendetta
Manticore
Hydra x3

I guess that's a pretty varied list, but it's still nasty.

Every year it is the same thing... A bunch of people with no intention of attending the event angry up the forum because they can't stand someone somewhere plays the game in a way they don't like. If the people attending enjoy the format, good for them? There is plenty of room for different formats. If you don't like Comp... don't participate? live and let live?

Personally, I have been trying to attend this and I might get to this year. I am excited I can take something totally different from my NOVA and 'ard Boyz lists and end up playing against something besides the same distilled internet metalists. Sounds fun, a good day of gaming and seems like a well-run event. I might even get to use Flash Gitz in a tourney list for once!

Maybe people in this thread should listen to Insaniak from the 2010 thread:

Indeed. Save the comp discussion for a comp discussion thread. Let's leave this thread for discussing the event

nkelsch wrote:Every year it is the same thing... A bunch of people with no intention of attending the event angry up the forum because they can't stand someone somewhere plays the game in a way they don't like. If the people attending enjoy the format, good for them? There is plenty of room for different formats. If you don't like Comp... don't participate? live and let live?

Personally, I have been trying to attend this and I might get to this year. I am excited I can take something totally different from my NOVA and 'ard Boyz lists and end up playing against something besides the same distilled internet metalists. Sounds fun, a good day of gaming and seems like a well-run event. I might even get to use Flash Gitz in a tourney list for once!

Maybe people in this thread should listen to Insaniak from the 2010 thread:

Indeed. Save the comp discussion for a comp discussion thread. Let's leave this thread for discussing the event

I don't recall anyone getting upset or angry. In fact, I disagree and wish the tournament well.

The simple fact is that the comp system here makes no more sense than imposing mandatory 6 troop choice armies with an HQ choice leading each squad.

It makes no sense, there's no reason for it, and it's not really "Warhammer 40,000".

But like I said, whatever. I suppose these sort of "house rules" are some peoples cup of tea. I prefer playing 40k against other people that play 40k.

Good luck at Da Boyz GT.


EDIT

In fact...it seems like just about everybody who disagrees has said good luck in some fashion or another for the most part.

Just comments here...that's all. No hatred.

Just signed up, and being I will be at thewarstore weekend earlier in the month it should be fun.

nkelsch wrote:Every year it is the same thing... A bunch of people with no intention of attending the event angry up the forum because they can't stand someone somewhere plays the game in a way they don't like. If the people attending enjoy the format, good for them? There is plenty of room for different formats. If you don't like Comp... don't participate? live and let live?

And every year, it's the same thing. People that don't read posts get made because they can't understand that someone would explain why they won't attend an event.

Live and let live, indeed.

Why is there no comp against monstrous creatures? If my list is neutered how could I deal with a bunch of them?


I personally like that comp sheet, it's just another way to play...I just think they need to add more to it before I'd attend. Comp the crap out of every army!!

I think that it's a great event for people that enjoy semi-competitive games, have large collections, and can get into the spirit.

That said, I'm going to make serious effort to get there.

I think this makes for a very interesting tournament environment..

(Biel-tan Fluff Army - WooHoo!)

looking forward to attending!

Polonius wrote:

nkelsch wrote:Every year it is the same thing... A bunch of people with no intention of attending the event angry up the forum because they can't stand someone somewhere plays the game in a way they don't like. If the people attending enjoy the format, good for them? There is plenty of room for different formats. If you don't like Comp... don't participate? live and let live?

And every year, it's the same thing. People that don't read posts get made because they can't understand that someone would explain why they won't attend an event.

Live and let live, indeed.

I think the thread could do without people saying "yes, you are not playing real 40k... but if you enjoy not playing 40k, then good luck!" and similar backhanded unhelpful insults and comentary on COMP in general. Just like last year and the year before...

I know why people won't attend... And I don't have any issue with it... what I can't understand is how come people can't keep it to themselves and have a driven urge to tear down comp events in these forums, especially for events they never had any intention in ever participating in.

I think it's sort of something you accept one way or another. With the way the NOVA brackets Day 2 this year, it accomplishes precisely the same intent as comp - whatever your list, you're competing fairly against peers on day 2, for actual prizes, and so greater variety can be brought.

There are certainly people who don't like anything that changes anything, so they're going to comment ... and it's the internet, so they're going to comment in ways they wouldn't in person (sadly).

IT's good to champion an event, but I think DaBoyz at this point is comfortable / used to it, and their constituency is as well.

As an aside, b/c I'd like to at some point make a DaBoyz GT (with any luck, this year), this is probably something like what I'd bring (With 3 seconds of thought put into it):

Company Command Squad w/ Meltaguns, Astro
Commissar Lord w/ Camo/Fist

3 x Meltavet squads, 2 in Chimeras
Flamer vet squad
Platoon command and 2 Infantry Squads w/ Autocannons on all 3

5 Stormtroopers w/ 2 meltas
3 Ogryns (or perhaps some Ratlings) for the Lord Com

Vendetta w/ Heavy Bolters
Valkryie w/ MRPs

Demolisher w/ HHF
Manticore

I don't think the comp impacts its commonality or potency at all, and it's an 80 point list according to their rubric, plus I have the models for it painted.

nkelsch wrote:
I think the thread could do without people saying "yes, you are not playing real 40k... but if you enjoy not playing 40k, then good luck!" and similar backhanded unhelpful insults and comentary on COMP in general. Just like last year and the year before...

True. Of course, holding posts to the standard of "could the thread do without this" isn't the most practical.

And not every person reading this thread read the ones prior. It's not utterly out of line to point out to new readers that there is a very demanding comp requirement. It could be done with mroe tact than some people have, but it's still worth pointing out.

As for the actuall comment of "real 40k," well, yeah, it's harsh, but it's at least defensible.

I know why people won't attend... And I don't have any issue with it... what I can't understand is how come people can't keep it to themselves and have a driven urge to tear down comp events in these forums, especially for events they never had any intention in ever participating in.

Ok, this thread is essnetially an advertisment, or inducement, to attend an event. People are saying why they won't attend, and maybe the organizers will alter their way of running things to accomodate.

Polonius wrote:
Ok, this thread is essnetially an advertisment, or inducement, to attend an event. People are saying why they won't attend, and maybe the organizers will alter their way of running things to accomodate.

I can guarentee that DaBoyz GT will never drop comp from our events. We understand that not everyone enjoys comp or even the idea of comp. We also understand that there is no perfect way of judging comp, hell even our own group has had disagreements on how to do it. However, the rubric we are trying this year is just another crack at getting comp right, if we try enough different ways we are bound to get it right aren't we?

To the people that have already stated they are coming and that they've had a great time in previous years I would like to thank you and promise that you'll have another great year with great people. To the detractors I would hope you reconsider. We do our best to put on a great event with a ton of prize support and great people. Please don't assume comp isn't fun or competitive without trying it at a large event. Give it a try and you might be surprised

Oh, I figured. I was just giving examples of why people might give their opinions when at least one person seems to not want to read them.

I have my thoughts on the rubric, but I figure it'll be fun, and it's in driving distance.

BTW, what is the hotel situation?

Polonius wrote:Oh, I figured. I was just giving examples of why people might give their opinions when at least one person seems to not want to read them.

I have my thoughts on the rubric, but I figure it'll be fun, and it's in driving distance.

BTW, what is the hotel situation?

If you take a look at the bottom right of our page we have some info on the hotel closest to the Main Street Armory. Also, there are a ton of other hotels near Rochester airport.

nkelsch wrote:Every year it is the same thing... A bunch of people with no intention of attending the event angry up the forum because they can't stand someone somewhere plays the game in a way they don't like. If the people attending enjoy the format, good for them? There is plenty of room for different formats. If you don't like Comp... don't participate? live and let live?

Seems like the only person trying to "angry up" the thread is you, brah. Even comp-haters like myself are encouraging folks to enjoy themselves here.

Personally, I have been trying to attend this and I might get to this year. I am excited I can take something totally different from my NOVA and 'ard Boyz lists and end up playing against something besides the same distilled internet metalists. Sounds fun, a good day of gaming and seems like a well-run event. I might even get to use Flash Gitz in a tourney list for once!

You know, contrary to what the internet tells you, not every competitive list is the same. The netlists people complain about never win anything anyway, the better player with the list he's experienced with always comes out on top. Get off your computer more, you'll be surprised at what goes on in the real world.

NoVA and 'Ard Boyz don't forbid you from using Flash Gitz. If you like them, go for it! You don't learn anything unless you experiment.

Crimthaan wrote:I can guarentee that DaBoyz GT will never drop comp from our events. We understand that not everyone enjoys comp or even the idea of comp. We also understand that there is no perfect way of judging comp, hell even our own group has had disagreements on how to do it. However, the rubric we are trying this year is just another crack at getting comp right, if we try enough different ways we are bound to get it right aren't we?
To the people that have already stated they are coming and that they've had a great time in previous years I would like to thank you and promise that you'll have another great year with great people. To the detractors I would hope you reconsider. We do our best to put on a great event with a ton of prize support and great people. Please don't assume comp isn't fun or competitive without trying it at a large event. Give it a try and you might be surprised

I can vouch for 2 things with this crowd. 1) They love their comp and 2) They are incredibly passionate about the hobby and know how to put on a great show. The latter is what's most important.

Normally I wouldn't touch a comp event with 10 foot pole (or, rather, 10 identical 1 foot poles ) for all the usual reasons that don't need to be rehashed here. But this is my old club we're talking about here, I've gotta come out if I can.

For all you competitive types, you gotta approach it with a different view. This is not a competitive tournament, it's the ultimate casual hobby event. Beer & Pretzels. Don't take it very seriously, just show up to meet some great folks, see some amazing armies and chuck dice around.

Looking forward to it.

I like the comp rules. I think it will be fun. Add list making as part of the gaming experience. I think it's perfectly fine to have a few big events with rules like this. I hope I can make it.

Chumbalaya wrote:
For all you competitive types, you gotta approach it with a different view. This is not a competitive tournament, it's the ultimate casual hobby event. Beer & Pretzels. Don't take it very seriously, just show up to meet some great folks, see some amazing armies and chuck dice around.

Good to hear you are coming Chumby! I would however contest your "it's not a competitive tournament". Just because it's comp doesn't mean we don't have competition or that the competition isn't at the same level as say...Nova. The comp just makes you play in a different way than you would at NOVA but with the same competition. You know that lol

Crimthaan wrote:

Chumbalaya wrote:
For all you competitive types, you gotta approach it with a different view. This is not a competitive tournament, it's the ultimate casual hobby event. Beer & Pretzels. Don't take it very seriously, just show up to meet some great folks, see some amazing armies and chuck dice around.

Good to hear you are coming Chumby! I would however contest your "it's not a competitive tournament". Just because it's comp doesn't mean we don't have competition or that the competition isn't at the same level as say...Nova. The comp just makes you play in a different way than you would at NOVA but with the same competition. You know that lol

Careful, you'll fall into the very thing you don't like other people doing! The NOVA uses a form of passive comp, that removes much of the pressure of "list building" from the opportunity to compete in a skill sense. This is different, obviously, from comp that puts greater emphasis on building within a new system of "list" and learning that, but it's effectively "comp" in that it benefits less list-intensive hardcore folks, and it increases the permissible variety in attendant list. So, from one fan to another - bravo and keep it up.

For all - competitiveness is directly proportional to the difference between players in terms of skill/capability. The closer a game is, the more competitive it is. Comp or not has nothing to do with this, on face value, though too steep a learning curve on a list-oriented comp system CAN cause greater differences between those who play well but don't have much list building time/capacity, and those who can really dissect and "crack" the list nuances of a comp system.

As I said above, I'll be trying to attend myself this year with some kind of variant on the guard list I posted. DaBoyz is one of the best regarded events around, year in and year out, in terms of how well it's run.

I think the comp system looks great to me as far as a general rubric is concerned. Frankly the only way to due a truly 'fair' comp system is to basically lay out codex by codex which builds exactly you feel are over/under powered and then judge each list separately. Anytime you have a set rubric there will be some armies that can 'game' it more than others.

With that said, I think a lot of the cookie-cutter army feel you get in tournaments these days does come from duplicated unit choices, so making this the focus of the rubric, along with a floating 30 point 'judged' section should indeed make sure that armies in this tournament are much more varied than most tournaments.

And at the end of the day, that is the stated point of their comp system...to encourage codex exploration instead of seeing a bunch of unit duplicates, with the floating 30 judged points as a reserve to help focus on lists that are still super-powerful but skirt around the rubric. So I'd imagine if people took the couple of guard lists suggested here you might end up not getting the 30 judged points to your lists, where armies that clearly have gone for straight up diversity over killing potential would get those points given back.

Overall I'd love to attend this tournament because of the variety that this comp system will no doubt encourage and if I lived anywhere on the East coast this (along with the NOVA) would be definite choices for me.


And I'll never understand why people say that tournaments with comp restrictions on them "aren't 40K"...40K like any game encourages the use of house rules, and a comp system is basically just one giant house rule. This makes it no more or no less 40K than any other game with or without house rules.

MVBrandt wrote:
Careful, you'll fall into the very thing you don't like other people doing! The NOVA uses a form of passive comp, that removes much of the pressure of "list building" from the opportunity to compete in a skill sense. This is different, obviously, from comp that puts greater emphasis on building within a new system of "list" and learning that, but it's effectively "comp" in that it benefits less list-intensive hardcore folks, and it increases the permissible variety in attendant list. So, from one fan to another - bravo and keep it up.

For all - competitiveness is directly proportional to the difference between players in terms of skill/capability. The closer a game is, the more competitive it is. Comp or not has nothing to do with this, on face value, though too steep a learning curve on a list-oriented comp system CAN cause greater differences between those who play well but don't have much list building time/capacity, and those who can really dissect and "crack" the list nuances of a comp system.

As I said above, I'll be trying to attend myself this year with some kind of variant on the guard list I posted. DaBoyz is one of the best regarded events around, year in and year out, in terms of how well it's run.

I stand corrected Brandt, I assumed too much about NOVA and generalized. I certainly won't make that mistake again! I am happy to hear you want to attend our GT and I look forward to some good games and better times!

If it's a little "harsh" that I said "not 40k" to some people, I only did it b/c I like playing straight up games. This is TOTALLY a reason that I wouldn't attend.

Now I'm sure Da Boyz run a fantastic tournament. I know these guys personally from Adepticon and actually suffer from a self imposed rivalry with a great guy, Shawn Kemp...damn him! (I'll get you yet Shawn!) I'm sure that the show they put on during the weekend is top notch.

However, when I'm in tournament mode...I'm all business. One thing I really hate, and always has, has been any form of comp. I simply dont like having people tell me what toys I get to play with over the weekend. Indeed, several of the armies that I have 'tournament ready' are flat out illegal to play at this tournament...yet they are completly playable within normal 40k rules. Honestly, and some people will probably wince at this, I'd find a one day 'Ard Boys tourney more satisfying 'game-wise' than this tournament that forces me into building and playing an army that I have no interest in practicing with.

I like redundancy and efficient units. My current Grey knights list doesnt have any fast attack. I'm HEAVILY penalised (indeed, illegal) unless I shoehorn a StormRaven or an interceptor squad into my army....which totally throws the balance of the army that I've build and envisioned.

It's just my point of veiw. I'm not trying to get a mad-on here...really I'm not. I feel comp is silly in a "tournament" atmosphere though...and noone can make me feel different about that.

So what do I do? Not attend, then when I see Da Boyz at Nova or maybe Adepticon next year, have a beer with Shawn, Chris or Jay and ask..."So how'd that stupid comp-lovers tournament go? Harhar!" To which they'd reply "Great! After all Shane...you werent there! How could it have gone otherwise?" Then we both clink glasses and check out the blond that just walked up in the turqoise party dress....

Like I said...good luck with the Tourney, I wont be attending, but it promotes the hobby....even if it isnt 40K.

Hulksmash wrote:

On that note why even have 30pts being "playable"? Why not start at 50 and you need to have a score to play?

It's probably about the overall scoring. Think of most paint scores. If you have the 3 color minimum, most tournaments give you X number of points, while those same tourneys tell you that painting the minimum is required. Why give those points out when you get them for just showing up with what you were supposed to?

In most cases it's just to help the math at the end of the day add up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshane1 wrote:...One thing I really hate, and always has, has been any form of comp. I simply dont like having people tell me what toys I get to play with over the weekend. ...

Doesn't GW tell you how to play with your toys? To me, I look at the rubric and see it as another Force Org chart. It's just another way to play the game.

Anyway, the GT should be a hell of a time. Last year's was a great event, and I'm looking forward to attending this year as well.

Comp isn't my cup of tea but if I lived in the area I'd still go just because it is a fun weekend of gaming with buddies. Hell, if I had the money I'd still go for the same reason.

And if anyone really doesn't like the format, they can start their own GT like we did for the Bay Area Open. Otherwise, be glad you have a big GT locally to attend at all as those things take a ton of work to organize.

I hope you all have a great weekend!

Deadshane1 wrote:If it's a little "harsh" that I said "not 40k" to some people, I only did it b/c I like playing straight up games. This is TOTALLY a reason that I wouldn't attend.

Now I'm sure Da Boyz run a fantastic tournament. I know these guys personally from Adepticon and actually suffer from a self imposed rivalry with a great guy, Shawn Kemp...damn him! (I'll get you yet Shawn!) I'm sure that the show they put on during the weekend is top notch.

However, when I'm in tournament mode...I'm all business. One thing I really hate, and always has, has been any form of comp. I simply dont like having people tell me what toys I get to play with over the weekend. Indeed, several of the armies that I have 'tournament ready' are flat out illegal to play at this tournament...yet they are completly playable within normal 40k rules. Honestly, and some people will probably wince at this, I'd find a one day 'Ard Boys tourney more satisfying 'game-wise' than this tournament that forces me into building and playing an army that I have no interest in practicing with.

I like redundancy and efficient units. My current Grey knights list doesnt have any fast attack. I'm HEAVILY penalised (indeed, illegal) unless I shoehorn a StormRaven or an interceptor squad into my army....which totally throws the balance of the army that I've build and envisioned.

It's just my point of veiw. I'm not trying to get a mad-on here...really I'm not. I feel comp is silly in a "tournament" atmosphere though...and noone can make me feel different about that.

So what do I do? Not attend, then when I see Da Boyz at Nova or maybe Adepticon next year, have a beer with Shawn, Chris or Jay and ask..."So how'd that stupid comp-lovers tournament go? Harhar!" To which they'd reply "Great! After all Shane...you werent there! How could it have gone otherwise?" Then we both clink glasses and check out the blond that just walked up in the turqoise party dress....

Like I said...good luck with the Tourney, I wont be attending, but it promotes the hobby....even if it isnt 40K.

To each their own Dead! And don't worry, you're not the only one with a self induced rivalry with Kemp...though mine is more with Chris as he wrecks me on a weekly basis. I'm playing Kemp this Sunday to get him some ETC training in, I'll be sure to say hi to him for you.

Deadshane1 wrote:If it's a little "harsh" that I said "not 40k" to some people, I only did it b/c I like playing straight up games. This is TOTALLY a reason that I wouldn't attend.

Now I'm sure Da Boyz run a fantastic tournament. I know these guys personally from Adepticon and actually suffer from a self imposed rivalry with a great guy, Shawn Kemp...damn him! (I'll get you yet Shawn!) I'm sure that the show they put on during the weekend is top notch.

However, when I'm in tournament mode...I'm all business. One thing I really hate, and always has, has been any form of comp. I simply dont like having people tell me what toys I get to play with over the weekend. Indeed, several of the armies that I have 'tournament ready' are flat out illegal to play at this tournament...yet they are completly playable within normal 40k rules. Honestly, and some people will probably wince at this, I'd find a one day 'Ard Boys tourney more satisfying 'game-wise' than this tournament that forces me into building and playing an army that I have no interest in practicing with.

I like redundancy and efficient units. My current Grey knights list doesnt have any fast attack. I'm HEAVILY penalised (indeed, illegal) unless I shoehorn a StormRaven or an interceptor squad into my army....which totally throws the balance of the army that I've build and envisioned.

It's just my point of veiw. I'm not trying to get a mad-on here...really I'm not. I feel comp is silly in a "tournament" atmosphere though...and noone can make me feel different about that.

So what do I do? Not attend, then when I see Da Boyz at Nova or maybe Adepticon next year, have a beer with Shawn, Chris or Jay and ask..."So how'd that stupid comp-lovers tournament go? Harhar!" To which they'd reply "Great! After all Shane...you werent there! How could it have gone otherwise?" Then we both clink glasses and check out the blond that just walked up in the turqoise party dress....

Like I said...good luck with the Tourney, I wont be attending, but it promotes the hobby....even if it isnt 40K.

Of course you can and should like what you like. I think it was a bad idea back in the day when prety much every tournament used some sort of comp as well. I think there always needs to be a wide variety of different tournament styles available so that players who like different things have a set of events to gravitate towards.

I just don't like the hyperbole of calling an event with comp 'not 40K' because it's just that: hyperbole. What you like is 'core' or 'basic' 40K, with no expansions, no supplements and no house rules...and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But there's also nothing wrong with events that include some expansions (like Imperial Armor) or house rules (like comp). They're all still games of Warhammer 40,000 and no version is inherently 'better' than the other.

While I generally gravitate towards un-comped events myself these days, constantly seeing completely theme-less (from my perspective) armies made up of repeated unit choices does tend to deplete my interest in playing the game anymore. That's because behind it all, the reason I still play 40K is because of the cinema of the battle that goes on in my head with each battle, which is why you'll rarely see me ever concede a game early (unless time demands it), because I like to have my little soldiers fight to the last man even if the balance of the game is already long been decided.

Of course, my current army build suffers from the exact same symptom I'm describing...I'm playing an Ork Kan wall with nearly all duplicated choices. Of course in my mind I can justify this as an Ork Mek (or two) leading a ramshakle army of walkers...something I really have trouble doing with 'Grey Knight' armies made up of 5 Psyrifleman Dreads screened by Henchmen Rhinos. Those types of armies (and even my own) really do suck a lot of that cinema out of the game and reduce it down to a purely mathematical formula of tabletop effectiveness.

I don't fault anyone for taking lists like this (like I said, I do it myself), but I do recognize that something is inherently 'lost' when so many armies at a tournament look eerily similar and don't make much of any connection to the background the army is supposedly drawn from. So while I would hate if we ever went back to having most (or all) events using comp, I do really want to attend some tournaments with some decent (and interesting) comp restrictions in place just to get a bit more of that 'cinema' back into army building.


With all that said, the one thing I can totally agree with you that is really bad (IMHO) about this comp system is that they have a minimum that you must adhere to. That essentially makes some lists that are perfectly 'legal' from the codex completely disallowed in this event and that really isn't cool. Players should be able to bring whatever they want, take their massive comp ding for it and play their games. I don't think disallowing some players from attending because their only painted army forms an illegal list is something that should ever be included.

the comp system for this event takes the game back to the stone age of competition.

all it does is make players try to find new loopholes in a new poopy system.

yeah, i said that. your system is doggy doo.

...and dakka: your little 'post editor' asking me about typing in all lower case letters is slowed. since when does the internet give two s**ts about MLA (or formatting for that matter)?

HarveyDent wrote:the comp system for this event takes the game back to the stone age of competition.

all it does is make players try to find new loopholes in a new poopy system.

yeah, i said that. your system is doggy doo.

If you look at it from the perspective of giving people new challenges to create a ballbuster list, isn't that more fun, fair, and upfront than "stealth comp" hidden in missions?

I think the worst downside you can argue to this is that it hurts older, weaker armies. It does create some interesting new possibilities.

What can you say The DaBoyz GT is different event. It is no Nova, Adepticon, Wargamescon, Warmasters, or the Bay Open. All good events, but each one is different and great in there own way. For instance Nova format is great format and a lot of events are coping it, but if every tournament ran the nova format people would think it would be boring (sorry MBV). Gamers want variety. I love going to events. I would have made Warmasters, WargamesCon and Nova this year if it was not for the little ETC I have to attend in about a week.

I think most gamers like me really don’t care. If an event has not comp or sportsmanship or even painting I will still play in it. All I want to do is to get a good game in. Sure I want to win, but if I get beat I get beat. The DaBoyz went down the ACT Tennessee I had to bring a low kill point army because every mission had kill points. I wanted to win so I had to change up my list.
Sure the Comp system is really telling you what you can play, but is no different than other tournaments if want to win.

Hulk: I hope wreck with Nids at the Nova.

Chumby: I am glad you are thinking on coming.

Nate: sorry I can’t make Warmasters this year. Freaking ETC!

MVB: I really wanted to go to Nova this year, but wife would of killed me if I want to Europe and then to the Nova Open.

DeadShane: I am sorry you think it is not 40k. I do think playing with comp just makes you are better player. What is your record vs. Shaun? I hope to see you at the next big event.

Yakface: yea we did not want to put a limit on the comp, but we have seen is that very good players (aka as Brad Chester) showing up with nasty armies just destroying other very good players with sup-par armies.

I hope see a lot of you, if not maybe at one of the events listed above.

HarveyDent wrote:the comp system for this event takes the game back to the stone age of competition.

all it does is make players try to find new loopholes in a new poopy system.

yeah, i said that. your system is doggy doo.

...and dakka: your little 'post editor' asking me about typing in all lower case letters is slowed. since when does the internet give two s**ts about MLA (or formatting for that matter)?

The rules of this site state that, yes, this site cares.

These are the same rules that you agreed to follow when you signed up for an account here.

There's a link to them in my signature.

Please re-read them ASAP.

Thanks!

I'm a sad panda. My Sister's score a -15. New codex looks even worse with repeating units. Glad they are so overpowered.

Good luck with your tournament, just not my cup of tea.

Jay said it well. There is room for types of events and all types of events can be fun. Day boyz gt, by all accounts, is good fun. I hope this is there best year yet. I've met a lot of day boyz club at adepticon and they're all really cool guys.

Looming forward to seeing the results. I wonder if sparks can pull it off again with the mighty footdar!

yeah, sadly there are those of us that like to play this game called Warhammer 40,000. there are no rules in the rulebook that dictate the game be played in the way this tournament wants it to be played.

well... wait, the tournament isn't saying you CAN'T play 40K. it's just saying that you don't deserve to win at 40K the way these tournament organizers want you to win. they think that variety is the spice of the hobby... and thus that is the way you can win. competition promotes diversity, not the other way around.

...and criticizing posts for not having correct capitalization is just silly. that's just another version of personal preference that has gone too far.

Posts without correct grammar are criticised because they are difficult to read.

There is a rule of the site that users should type in correct English. Correct grammar helps readers to understand what you are trying to say.

...and yet you use incorrect grammar. where are the grammar police now?

My two cents before this thread gets closed hehe

If you play baseball and all of sudden use a larger ball and change the field size doesn't a game cease being Baseball and become Softball? They are two different games. If someone wants to call the BoyzGT not 40k they have every right to and not be branded hyperbolic.

If the goal of the BoyzGT is to see different lists than what you see at a standard event then maybe this comp system might work. If the goal that you usually find with Comp systems is to somehow protect the players for "tough" lists then it will fail because any power gamer will exploit any comp system in order to win. Defeating a purpose of the comp in the first place.

Also isn't this rubric the first time it is being tried out? I would want to hear more about how much it is has been play tested so at the very least the organizers if it works well or not.

tastytaste wrote:
If you play baseball and all of sudden use a larger ball and change the field size doesn't a game cease being Baseball and become Softball? They are two different games. If someone wants to call the BoyzGT not 40k they have every right to and not be branded hyperbolic.

That is an incorrect analogy because a comp system does not change how the actual game is played, it simply changes how players are allowed to play the (same) game.

So a much better analogy would be the handicap system in golf that effectively penalizes better players and rewards worse players to allow them to compete with each other despite their skill levels being vastly different. No one would ever consider saying someone 'isn't playing golf' because they're playing with a handicap.

Or an analogy closer to yours would be the difference in rules between college and professional baseball. Professional baseball doesn't allow metal bats (and a variety of other small changes) for example, yet both are most certainly considered baseball.

Tournaments with and without comp systems are still warhammer 40,000 tournaments and in both players are playing games of warhammer 40,000. In fact, for a long, long time the 'official' tournaments run by Games Workshop included a comp system, so were games played in those tournaments somehow not warhammer 40K?

If you think comp systems are stupid, archaic, etc, that's your prerogative and its fine. But to say a tournament using some form of comp system is somehow 'not 40K' is useless rhetoric designed to make the players and organizers who actually like comp systems feel that they are somehow stupid, weak or lesser gamers for doing so.

The only good thing that can be said about this comp system is that it is transparent.


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Upon second thought, I like it. I mean, feth it. It seems that the only goal of the comp system is to increase variety rather than address balance issues. Let's admit it, triple vendetta/triple riflemen dread/venom spam is boring as hell. Sure people will figure out the most broken list within the system, but the sole goal of increasing variety will still be achieved.

tastytaste wrote:Also isn't this rubric the first time it is being tried out? I would want to hear more about how much it is has been play tested so at the very least the organizers if it works well or not.

They run a great tournament. The rules change a bit year to year, but people attending know what to expect. And they playtest their rules quite a bit.

Folks attending have a good time, and it sells out each year.

If it was in driving distance I'd be there regardless of the format simply because I hear they put on a good event. That and I'm lucky enough to have large enough armies to attempt to break the system. Granted I'd have to play MEQ as Daemons and Nids won't do well at all in this kind of set-up.

Hulksmash wrote:If it was in driving distance I'd be there regardless of the format simply because I hear they put on a good event. That and I'm lucky enough to have large enough armies to attempt to break the system. Granted I'd have to play MEQ as Daemons and Nids won't do well at all in this kind of set-up.

Yeah, there are some legitimate crticisms to be made about this format: it punishes older books, and books that rely on mech, far more than newer, more varied books.

And, I hate to agree with Yak on general principle, but some of criticisms are (or make no effort not to look like) pretty condescending. I had a frat brother that would rail about how stupid the vegan restaurant near us was, seemingly ignoring the near constant 15-minute wait for a table.

It's been a while since I played 40k... but wouldn't it be fairly easy for an army like Dark Eldar to get the 80 comp points, but still bring a really hard list? As Polonius points out, it has a lot of troop choices (at least, if you take a Haemonculus) and a large variety of units that are decent.

People wouldn't be able to spam just a few, but I feel like it'd still be extremely strong just swapping out some selections for others. (I'm starting DE, so it's the only army I can really comment on)

That said, I like it when tournies try to do some sort of crazy comp. The DakkaCon GT was great fun (particularly with the banning of the "number 6 spells", making games get played out a bit more without units being deleted from the board by magic) even though afterwards you realize how certain armies were able to exploit the rules, etc. It's just part of this type of event and I kind of like it.

That said, I wouldn't be able to play in the fantasy tournament since no special characters of any kind are allowed :-/. What an outdated rule... just ban the ones that you feel are overpowered! Throgg-led troll army = no dice :-/

The problem I see with DE is that they're virtually all mech. I don't know enough about them to know if they can take decent foot sloggiers.

Well, with Webway portals they can... but it's a risk (however, it's how I plan to play them ). Certainly not the usual raider-spamfest that is seen in tournaments...

Hulksmash wrote:If it was in driving distance I'd be there regardless of the format simply because I hear they put on a good event. That and I'm lucky enough to have large enough armies to attempt to break the system. Granted I'd have to play MEQ as Daemons and Nids won't do well at all in this kind of set-up.

I placed 2nd overall with Nids last year, and the format isn't all that different. Looking at my army list from last year, I think that it'd score 80 on the rubric as well.

These types of comp events are the only kind of would ever consider attending -- atleast its not entirely based on a subjective panel of judges (which is what they have done in the past IIRC). I know some players see building lists for these events as a challenge, I personaly kind of like it also when attending Astronomicon in past years (they ditched their comp now though).

I agree though it does force many to build and paint almost entirely new armies and that is going to alienate folks -- but it is what it is.

Warmaster Primus wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:If it was in driving distance I'd be there regardless of the format simply because I hear they put on a good event. That and I'm lucky enough to have large enough armies to attempt to break the system. Granted I'd have to play MEQ as Daemons and Nids won't do well at all in this kind of set-up.

I placed 2nd overall with Nids last year, and the format isn't all that different. Looking at my army list from last year, I think that it'd score 80 on the rubric as well.

Yeah tyranids aren't so bad off, assuming the comp and 30 point requirement keeps transport spam to a minimum. No real need to take special characters, no need to take dedicated transports and troops are not just tacked on but key parts to most builds. Perfect comp? Not what I would shoot for (gotta take hits for the elite selections) but minimal deductions seems very possible.

So you are saying I can take a baseball (certain list) to a softball game and it would be ok? The basic FoC is part of the games basic rules this comp system is asking players to change that to suit the comp system. That is changing how the game is designed to be played. That is why I chose softball over say football because while the difference is not great it is still there.

yakface wrote:

tastytaste wrote:
If you play baseball and all of sudden use a larger ball and change the field size doesn't a game cease being Baseball and become Softball? They are two different games. If someone wants to call the BoyzGT not 40k they have every right to and not be branded hyperbolic.

That is an incorrect analogy because a comp system does not change how the actual game is played, it simply changes how players are allowed to play the (same) game.

So a much better analogy would be the handicap system in golf that effectively penalizes better players and rewards worse players to allow them to compete with each other despite their skill levels being vastly different. No one would ever consider saying someone 'isn't playing golf' because they're playing with a handicap.

Or an analogy closer to yours would be the difference in rules between college and professional baseball. Professional baseball doesn't allow metal bats (and a variety of other small changes) for example, yet both are most certainly considered baseball.

Tournaments with and without comp systems are still warhammer 40,000 tournaments and in both players are playing games of warhammer 40,000. In fact, for a long, long time the 'official' tournaments run by Games Workshop included a comp system, so were games played in those tournaments somehow not warhammer 40K?

If you think comp systems are stupid, archaic, etc, that's your prerogative and its fine. But to say a tournament using some form of comp system is somehow 'not 40K' is useless rhetoric designed to make the players and organizers who actually like comp systems feel that they are somehow stupid, weak or lesser gamers for doing so.

tastytaste wrote:So you are saying I can take a baseball (certain list) to a softball game and it would be ok? The basic FoC is part of the games basic rules this comp system is asking players to change that to suit the comp system. That is changing how the game is designed to be played. That is why I chose softball over say football because while the difference is not great it is still there.

And missions that punish units that move over 6" or giving your opponent 5 extra KPs if you don't take fast attack choices don't alter 'how the game is meant to be played'? By your statement, 'ardboyz is a comp event and always has been as the missions force people to change the units they take and force changes to army organization and force org. I see no difference between 'ard boyz wacky mission comp and comp like this rubric. People have been setting arbitrary rules to change how people build lists in events for years and it is part of the game and GW has always promoted it in the past. As long as it is transparent, you can prepare for it, I see no difference.

I guess I don't care if you want to call it Circle-Jerk 40,000... it looks like it'll be fun to me, and apparently enough other people to make it a thing.

Since not even the rulebook defines "real" 40k to be mean restricted to the rulebook, at some point definitions of "real", like nearly all defintinions of reality, simply turn into "the way I see it."

So, yes. This is not 40k "the way you percieve it."

But reality is far more complex than you realize.

Technically, I have always viewed 'ardboyz as having comp, yes.

tastytaste wrote:So you are saying I can take a baseball (certain list) to a softball game and it would be ok? The basic FoC is part of the games basic rules this comp system is asking players to change that to suit the comp system. That is changing how the game is designed to be played. That is why I chose softball over say football because while the difference is not great it is still there.

yakface wrote:

tastytaste wrote:
If you play baseball and all of sudden use a larger ball and change the field size doesn't a game cease being Baseball and become Softball? They are two different games. If someone wants to call the BoyzGT not 40k they have every right to and not be branded hyperbolic.

That is an incorrect analogy because a comp system does not change how the actual game is played, it simply changes how players are allowed to play the (same) game.

So a much better analogy would be the handicap system in golf that effectively penalizes better players and rewards worse players to allow them to compete with each other despite their skill levels being vastly different. No one would ever consider saying someone 'isn't playing golf' because they're playing with a handicap.

Or an analogy closer to yours would be the difference in rules between college and professional baseball. Professional baseball doesn't allow metal bats (and a variety of other small changes) for example, yet both are most certainly considered baseball.

Tournaments with and without comp systems are still warhammer 40,000 tournaments and in both players are playing games of warhammer 40,000. In fact, for a long, long time the 'official' tournaments run by Games Workshop included a comp system, so were games played in those tournaments somehow not warhammer 40K?

If you think comp systems are stupid, archaic, etc, that's your prerogative and its fine. But to say a tournament using some form of comp system is somehow 'not 40K' is useless rhetoric designed to make the players and organizers who actually like comp systems feel that they are somehow stupid, weak or lesser gamers for doing so.

It's an interesting way to argue: Just ignore what Yak says, and keep making baseball analogies.

Agreed- although yak did use the college baseball vs. professional baseball analogy. I.e., they're both baseball, but there are slightly different rules. In one, metal bats are allowed. In another, they are not.

So, tastytaste- if you bring a softball to either of those games, no, you will not be allowed to use it. However, it does not change the fact that certain equipment is allowed at one, but not at the other... even while they both remain, in essence, "baseball". About field size- that's rather silly, as the field size at many ballparks differ.

It's also pretty silly to argue that a tournament using comp isn't playing "40k" anymore... as Polonius, nkelsch illustrate quite well. To address nkelsch's point- what is your take on non-rulebook missions? The narrow approach you're taking makes it sound as if those would be out of bounds for you, too.

If you play baseball and all of sudden use a larger ball and change the field size doesn't a game cease being Baseball and become Softball? They are two different games. If someone wants to call the BoyzGT not 40k they have every right to and not be branded hyperbolic.

This is a horrible analogy. FYI, none of the field sizes in pro baseball are consistent. Some fields have a shorter, or longer left/ right field...or a deeper center field. Others have a higher or shorter wall...yet the rules of baseball still apply. The only constant in the field of pro baseball is the distance between bases, the size of the bags, the size of home plate, and the dimensions of the batter's box.

Or an analogy closer to yours would be the difference in rules between college and professional baseball. Professional baseball doesn't allow metal bats (and a variety of other small changes) for example, yet both are most certainly considered baseball.

This is a slightly better analogy, but still differs because the leagues are different (thus different rules). It's still baseball, but a better comparison would be to keep it into one league of play. You could almost make the argument that Comp events would be considered a different league of 40k. The core rules are still intact, but certain requirements of game play are different.


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Polonius wrote:The problem I see with DE is that they're virtually all mech. I don't know enough about them to know if they can take decent foot sloggiers.

They have foot slogging options that can work well with some creative thinking.

We've all missed one of the greatest examples in sports composition:

The National League bans the Designated Hitter because it's OP!

Polonius wrote:We've all missed one of the greatest examples in sports composition:

The National League bans the Designated Hitter because it's OP!

Quick! Someone go tell them they aren't playing Baseball!

On Topic: Great Tournament and events. Highly recommended Our group will be coming up for it, and my shop will be supporting it.

CaptKaruthors wrote:

If you play baseball and all of sudden use a larger ball and change the field size doesn't a game cease being Baseball and become Softball? They are two different games. If someone wants to call the BoyzGT not 40k they have every right to and not be branded hyperbolic.

This is a horrible analogy. FYI, none of the field sizes in pro baseball are consistent. Some fields have a shorter, or longer left/ right field...or a deeper center field. Others have a higher or shorter wall...yet the rules of baseball still apply. The only constant in the field of pro baseball is the distance between bases, the size of the bags, the size of home plate, and the dimensions of the batter's box.

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Polonius wrote:The problem I see with DE is that they're virtually all mech. I don't know enough about them to know if they can take decent foot sloggiers.

They have foot slogging options that can work well with some creative thinking.

Good job at failing at Softball knowledge let google help you...


•Pitching area: Youth baseball programs, particularly at the advanced levels, feature a pitching mound that the pitcher throws from (the younger levels may call for hitters to hit off a tee or from a ball pitched from their coach). That isn't the case in softball — at any level. The pitcher delivers balls on level ground with the batter. The other major pitching difference is that softball pitchers deliver the ball in an underhand motion; baseball pitchers can throw overhand or even sidearm if they choose.
•Distance from the pitcher's area to home plate: The game of fast-pitch softball puts a greater emphasis on pitching, because the pitcher throws from a distance much closer to home plate than in baseball. At the beginning levels of youth softball, pitchers generally deliver pitches about 35 feet from home plate. At the higher levels of play, pitchers throw balls from 40 feet.

So now your precious baseball constants don't apply to Softball hence why it is a different game. The DaBoyzGT is enough change to the rules of the game to not be 40k 5th edition but DaboyzGT 40k simple as that. The same way I would call Novaopen Nova40k for the rubric they use. To avoid or not acknowledge the differences doesn't do any player any favors.

Read more: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-differences-between-softball-and-baseball.html#ixzz1Ur7gEpUq

mikhaila wrote:

Polonius wrote:We've all missed one of the greatest examples in sports composition:

The National League bans the Designated Hitter because it's OP!

Quick! Someone go tell them they aren't playing Baseball!

On Topic: Great Tournament and events. Highly recommended Our group will be coming up for it, and my shop will be supporting it.

If you ask many baseball purest they would say American League is not baseball . Also play Softball sometime and tell me that is not different enough to be considered a different game.

Now with Thewarstore weekend out of the question for the month I am looking even more forward too this (especially because I don't need too catch hell for going too two events in one month from the wife).

Comp in 40k... /facepalm

tastytaste wrote:The DaBoyzGT is enough change to the rules of the game to not be 40k 5th edition but DaboyzGT 40k simple as that. The same way I would call Novaopen Nova40k for the rubric they use. To avoid or not acknowledge the differences doesn't do any player any favors.

Ah, so you consider any major tournament with... what? Comp and/or unique missions / objectives? To be _____40k?

I think that's a very strange, and unecessary, position to take, but you're of course entitled to it.

Clearly, you're a vocal minority... as this is a very popular event, as is the Nova Open, and all the players who I've talked to who have attended Nova consider themselves to have played in a 40k tournament.

If you don't, that's fine... however, please don't continue to hijack this thread with that rather odd point of view. You've made your point of view clear, many of us disagree, and would like to move on to discuss the details of this event. Perhaps the issue of "Is _____ really 40k?" could have its' own thread created in this section for further discussion. (If anyone decides to make such a thread, please link to it here so that further general discussion of that issue can be directed there)

Just would like to throw this thought in there:

I love comp. Why? Because I'm not forced to play it. I don't have to play in that tourney. However, I love having tournaments around that do have comp, as it allows me to play with and against armies that I normally wouldn't see. It's an alternate form of the game that no one is forcing you to play.

My 2 cents.

tastytaste wrote:If you ask many baseball purest they would say American League is not baseball

Now you're over-stepping boundaries.

First; the American League won the first World Series EVER, the Boston Americans vs. Pittsburgh Pirates

Second; what makes it not baseball? Are you going to quote me the use of the DH? That wasn't even implemented until 1975, 71 years after we whooped NL ass in the inaugural world series.

Third; don't tell me because it's the "junior circuit". Clearly junior trumps senior in this case. How many wins does the NL have since the leagues established a noted championship (world series) game between the two? 44? The AL has won 62 times. The Yankees alone have 27, more than half of your total wins.

DH was implemented to spice up the game and differentiate the leagues better. Don't say it isn't baseball. One league consistently does better year in and year out.

Reminds me of the tournaments for Street Fighter II Turbo with the mass banning of ST Akuma. To quote David Sirlin:

"Most characters in that game cannot beat Akuma. I don’t mean it’s a tough match—I mean they cannot ever, ever, ever, ever win. Akuma is 'broken' in that his air fireball move is something the game simply wasn’t designed to handle. He is not merely the best character in the game, but is at least ten times better than other characters. This case is so extreme that all top players in America immediately realized that all tournaments would be Akuma vs. Akuma only, and so the character was banned with basically no debate and has been ever since."

yakface wrote:
So a much better analogy would be the handicap system in golf that effectively penalizes better players and rewards worse players to allow them to compete with each other despite their skill levels being vastly different. No one would ever consider saying someone 'isn't playing golf' because they're playing with a handicap.

A closer analogy using golf would be you are penalized strokes for every iron you take. 2 strokes if you take a putter. Take to many and you are not allowed to play!. Of coarse if you only take even irons we like you and can award some points so you score higher. Of coarse it could be odd ones too, but we are not going to tell you how the judges will rule before you get there, if you of coarse only take a driver and just enough irons to meet what we what you to play with. Oh, and no carts cause thats just OP to take transports!


Thats how I see it.

Actually, the USGA does regulate the number of clubs a player can carry. They also don't' allow hybrid clubs.

And the PGA doesn't allow carts...

So, yes. In many ways it's like golf.


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The Canadian Football League still maintains a rule that 50% of a team's roster must be Canadian born or trained. Before you mock the CFL, keep in mind that it's average attendance per game is only slightly less than Major League Baseball.






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NASCAR has more restrictions on how to make the car go faster than any other rule.


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I guess I'd say that high levels of competition often come with restrictions on what you can use, which players you can field, etc.

I've been looking forward to Da Boyz GT for a while; I've wanted to make it out for years. I like how their Comp system kind of evokes the Comp-heavy environment of the GW tournaments I started with, back in '99-2002 or so. That was a fun environment, and the metagame of designing a varied list which met the criteria while still being effective was a lot of fun,

tastytaste wrote:The DaBoyzGT is enough change to the rules of the game to not be 40k 5th edition but DaboyzGT 40k simple as that. The same way I would call Novaopen Nova40k for the rubric they use. To avoid or not acknowledge the differences doesn't do any player any favors.

So basically, you don't have an arguement at all. Every tournament will be slightly different, you just want us to use stupid names for 'the game they play'. Announcing 'Dayboyz GT' and posting rules isn't enough? You personally need it to say

"Now annoucings Wargamescon where players can play 7 games of WargamesCon40k!"
"Sign up now for the NOVAGT where you can play 3 days of NOVA40K!"

And how is anyone avoiding the differences? You think players they don't read the tournament rules before showing up?

Woah woah woah now mike.....theirs rules I'm supposed too read.

I am obviously totally missing something here. I didn't even look at the comp packet and outright agree with the pro-comp guys.

No one is forcing anyone to play, what's the big fuss?

The biggest irony of me is dashofpeppers's "argument" that has no real bearing here. Let's also remember he was the guy using raiders as venoms... or, softballs as baseballs.

Hey Walls, I believe that was Dash, and no need to bring up unrelated stuff here... I think his argument has been laid to rest and it'd be best to leave it at that.

Fixed. And considering it's till elongating on this page, I do think it bares bringing up.

I think you misunderstood me... I meant, I believe Dash is the person who was using converted raiders as venoms (and is no longer doing so, hence why I said no need to discuss it here) rather than tastytaste, who is the one posting here.

My space wolves scored -90 but my Paladin deathstar army from hell scored 80....

Well that was useless.

great guys and a well run event. A number of the BFS guys went last year and i know more will be going back. I intend on going once i recoup from the running the BFSGT earlier in the month. Plus fishboy owes me a beer.

i support the tournament 100% good luck guys.

anything we can do to help, get in touch.

-ed

Ravenous D wrote:My space wolves scored -90 but my Paladin deathstar army from hell scored 80....

Well that was useless.

How? Unless you didn't take draigo (which would be odd in a 'paladin' army), the highest you can score is 50. (Draigo is in the third bracket of the special chara point levels, and gives you a -30 off the bat).

I'm not in love with the comp system (or any) and I think it just shifts the meta to something new (and possibly even less balanced). My other complaint is that you just flat out can't take some armies, making a lot of peoples collections unable to play (ones with multiple light transports, which I would think is a lot of many peoples collections).

I could see horde orks/guard doing pretty well just at first glance, but I'd need to play around with it more to see how to break it.

Regardless, I know some of the guys involved, and they're a nice group, and seem to have an event a lot of people enjoy. It may not be one for everyone, but enough people like it that it merits running!

targetawg wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:My space wolves scored -90 but my Paladin deathstar army from hell scored 80....

Well that was useless.

How? Unless you didn't take draigo (which would be odd in a 'paladin' army), the highest you can score is 50. (Draigo is in the third bracket of the special chara point levels, and gives you a -30 off the bat).

I'm not in love with the comp system (or any) and I think it just shifts the meta to something new (and possibly even less balanced). My other complaint is that you just flat out can't take some armies, making a lot of peoples collections unable to play (ones with multiple light transports, which I would think is a lot of many peoples collections).

I could see horde orks/guard doing pretty well just at first glance, but I'd need to play around with it more to see how to break it.

Regardless, I know some of the guys involved, and they're a nice group, and seem to have an event a lot of people enjoy. It may not be one for everyone, but enough people like it that it merits running!

Paladin deathstar works easily without Draigo. You aren't going to take multiple units so Grand Strategy is all you need to make them scoring. Draigo is just an tough EW buffer for the pallies.

This comp is kind of annoying though. It doesn't really affect 5th editions Imperials who can take multiple units with the same role (or even the same units) in different foc slots and who can game the dedicated transport penalty with bikes and and Vendettas. I don't like it that the comp's main function is to give Marines and IG edge over Xenos.

Aetherse wrote:

targetawg wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:My space wolves scored -90 but my Paladin deathstar army from hell scored 80....

Well that was useless.

How? Unless you didn't take draigo (which would be odd in a 'paladin' army), the highest you can score is 50. (Draigo is in the third bracket of the special chara point levels, and gives you a -30 off the bat).

I'm not in love with the comp system (or any) and I think it just shifts the meta to something new (and possibly even less balanced). My other complaint is that you just flat out can't take some armies, making a lot of peoples collections unable to play (ones with multiple light transports, which I would think is a lot of many peoples collections).

I could see horde orks/guard doing pretty well just at first glance, but I'd need to play around with it more to see how to break it.

Regardless, I know some of the guys involved, and they're a nice group, and seem to have an event a lot of people enjoy. It may not be one for everyone, but enough people like it that it merits running!

Paladin deathstar works easily without Draigo. You aren't going to take multiple units so Grand Strategy is all you need to make them scoring. Draigo is just an tough EW buffer for the pallies.

This comp is kind of annoying though. It doesn't really affect 5th editions Imperials who can take multiple units with the same role (or even the same units) in different foc slots and who can game the dedicated transport penalty with bikes and and Vendettas. I don't like it that the comp's main function is to give Marines and IG edge over Xenos.

I think this system really hits imperial the hardest actually, whether thats a good or bad thing is entirely subjective. But the imperial books (which comprise the majority of the 5th books) top builds focus on dedicated transport spam, because they got such excellent, dirt cheap dedicated transports.

Razor spam (GK, BA, SW) not so much..Mech IG? Not with all those chimeras you don't.

Time will tell how the people attending game the system and determine the "strongest" armies under the new ruleset (the comp). And no, thats not a stab into the 40k/not 40k topic. This has essentially just shifted the balance/equilibrium, and list builders will figure out what they think is the top competitive and comp army for this environment.

If rochester were closer, I'd consider going, as one of my favorite things is list building..

targetawg wrote:
I think this system really hits imperial the hardest actually, whether thats a good or bad thing is entirely subjective. But the imperial books (which comprise the majority of the 5th books) top builds focus on dedicated transport spam, because they got such excellent, dirt cheap dedicated transports.

Razor spam (GK, BA, SW) not so much..Mech IG? Not with all those chimeras you don't.

In my opinion it hits Dark Eldar and Necrons hardest. Necrons don't have enough good units to work around the spam restrictions and DE just lose half of their mobility, firepower and target saturation in troop and elite slots if they aren't allowed to go full mech.

The missions aren't troop based so everyone can dedicate more points to non-scoring slots and unlike Dark or regular Eldar meching those slots doesn't necessarily mean more dedicated transports for Imperial players. For example Blood Angels can wield 2 Razorbacks, 2 Predators (Baal and normal) and more than 2 Dreads (HS, Elites and Death Company) without penalty and from there you can decide if you want to take slight hit to your comp score and spam more or game the system and cherrypick from the units that you haven't taken yet. The comp just changes the list building away from simple repetition to patchwork repetition for the codices that allow it and penalizes everyone else.

Aetherse wrote:

targetawg wrote:
I think this system really hits imperial the hardest actually, whether thats a good or bad thing is entirely subjective. But the imperial books (which comprise the majority of the 5th books) top builds focus on dedicated transport spam, because they got such excellent, dirt cheap dedicated transports.

Razor spam (GK, BA, SW) not so much..Mech IG? Not with all those chimeras you don't.

In my opinion it hits Dark Eldar and Necrons hardest. Necrons don't have enough good units to work around the spam restrictions and DE just lose half of their mobility, firepower and target saturation in troop and elite slots if they aren't allowed to go full mech.

The missions aren't troop based so everyone can dedicate more points to non-scoring slots and unlike Dark or regular Eldar meching those slots doesn't necessarily mean more dedicated transports for Imperial players. For example Blood Angels can wield 2 Razorbacks, 2 Predators (Baal and normal) and more than 2 Dreads (HS, Elites and Death Company) without penalty and from there you can decide if you want to take slight hit to your comp score and spam more or game the system and cherrypick from the units that you haven't taken yet. The comp just changes the list building away from simple repetition to patchwork repetition for the codices that allow it and penalizes everyone else.

Necrons are going to have trouble in any competitive environment (imo) because they're definitely one of the "weakest" books, but as far as the composition matrix, missions are less troop based, meaning the player can take less warriors (something that hurts necrons usually). The real issue is that tri-lith is one way necrons really avoid the phase out shenanigans, and with that incurring such a comp penalty, it makes them fairly vulnerable. Also, if the environment sees far less mech and more foot due to the matrix, there will be even worse matchups for the mech-lacking necrons.

Though, I imagine Judges may look kindly with their +30 points they can award on necron lists..

All paid up and looking forward to going.

I just paid I am in! Deamons with only -10 to comp score for the changeling, had a few test matches and won them all I am feeling good about this!

Good job at failing at Softball knowledge let google help you...

Hey, thanks for miss quoting me as I'm NOT talking about Softball. I'm talking about MLB.

•Pitching area: Youth baseball programs, particularly at the advanced levels, feature a pitching mound that the pitcher throws from (the younger levels may call for hitters to hit off a tee or from a ball pitched from their coach). That isn't the case in softball — at any level. The pitcher delivers balls on level ground with the batter. The other major pitching difference is that softball pitchers deliver the ball in an underhand motion; baseball pitchers can throw overhand or even sidearm if they choose.
•Distance from the pitcher's area to home plate: The game of fast-pitch softball puts a greater emphasis on pitching, because the pitcher throws from a distance much closer to home plate than in baseball. At the beginning levels of youth softball, pitchers generally deliver pitches about 35 feet from home plate. At the higher levels of play, pitchers throw balls from 40 feet.

It is the same game as the fundamental rules are the same. A ball is used, a bat is used, the object of the game is the same. Hell even the positions are the same (except for slow pitch which will occasionally have one more outfielder). Softball is essentially a derivative off the core game of baseball...but both games are played in the same manner. The same can be said for 40k tournaments with slightly different variations to their rules packet. The fundamental rules (how the game is played, won or lost) IS THE SAME. Which is why I said that a better comparison would be playing at different ballparks and all the quirks that occur with that...or how AL and NL have the subtle difference of a DH hitting vs. a Pitcher hitting. Same game, but certain conditions change. Differences in tournaments would be the same thing.

So now your precious baseball constants don't apply to Softball hence why it is a different game. The DaBoyzGT is enough change to the rules of the game to not be 40k 5th edition but DaboyzGT 40k simple as that. The same way I would call Novaopen Nova40k for the rubric they use. To avoid or not acknowledge the differences doesn't do any player any favors.

:face palm: LOLz...whatever...

I will also be attending with a brand new GK army I am building specifically for this event. You can follow the progress on my blog here:

http://synaps3.blogspot.com/p/grek-knights-daboyz-gt-project-army.html

Don't forget the best general at this event qualifies for a spot on the American ETC team for 2012!

http://teamamerica40k.com/?page_id=6

I know this qualifying spot is controvercial just as the comp subject can be. It is a strong belief of some of DaBoyz founders that playing with diverse army selections make you a stronger player. They backed up this philosophy by getting two members onto our 3rd place ETC team this year. A member of our ATC team also took best general out of 70 players with an Eldar list where the only duplicated unit selection was guardians.

This is a great event for trying out new units or dusting off old ones. We also boast some of the best terrain at a large event and our builders work for months to provide new and exciting tables every year. Some of last year's terrain can be found here:

http://s1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa407/ccourtney35/Daboyz%20GT%20Tables%20and%20Terrain/#!cpZZ2QQtppZZ20

Hope to see y'all there! Introduce yourself to me if you recognize my army!

Now see your making me want too post my GK's I am doing just for DABOYZ!!!

tastytaste wrote:If you play baseball and all of sudden use a larger ball and change the field size doesn't a game cease being Baseball and become Softball? They are two different games. If someone wants to call the BoyzGT not 40k they have every right to and not be branded hyperbolic.

Yeah, I skipped a couple of pages. BUT ANYWAY...

I assume everyone who says that playing with comp 'isn't 40k' would also apply this label to any tournament which uses missions that aren't in either the main rulebook or the Battle Missions book.

Since making up your own missions is EXACTLY THE SAME as introducing a comp score (i.e. changing the goalposts for winning YOUR tournament from the ones laid out in the rules) I'd assume you'd all be just as critical of it?

Personally, I think the tournament sounds interesting. It will certainly add variety, and I'd find it fun to build a different list to what I usually take. If i lived on the right continent, I'd try and attend.

I wanted to update you on the 2011 DaBoyz GT.
Tickets are selling fast, but there are still more available.

Here is a list of our Sponsors:
TABLEWAR
Gale Force Nine
Battle Foam
Battle Ready Miniatures
Amazing Magnets
The Broken Forge
Miniature Painting Authority
Pair-A-Dice Games
Millennium Games
Boldo’s Armory
Woodland Scenics
Hot Wire Foam Factory
Warmill Gaming Accessories
Spikey Bits
Allstate
More to come!

A Swag Bag will be given out to everyone that plays in the event.
The Swag Bag itself is being donated by TABLEWAR. This is what you will find in the Swag Bag:
Collectable 2011 DaBoyz GT beer Glass with one beer/drink ticket on us
Custom DaBoyz GT “Ork” dice
Custom DaBoyz GT 2011 resin objective markers
Custom bases by Battle Ready Miniatures
TABLEWAR Display trays
Rare Earth Magnets

We also plan on doing Raffle, so every time someone loses a game they get a raffle ticket. One of the main prizes for the raffle is 1300+ point Space Wolf army painted by Miniature Painting Authority.

Go to our website to find out more information. www.daboyzgt.com

Just Under 30 Days Remain Until The Big Event! =

Tickets are going fast, but we still have tickets available for the 40k Team, Warhammer 40k, and Warhammer Fantasy events.

Buy your tickets here: www.daboyzgt.com

Here is the critical information:

DaBoyz GT 2011
The 2011 DaBoyz GT features a two-day, 6 games, 120-player Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament. This will take place on Saturday and Sunday. There will also be a Warhammer Fantasy Independent Tournament. Both tournaments are part of the National Tournament and will be given invites from Games Workshop for the Nationals in 2012. The National tournament will be held at the end of the Indy GT season. Also, the 40K DaBoyz GT is a qualifying event to become a member of team America for the European Team Championships. The top Battle Point Finisher wins a spot on the team. Furthermore, each participant’s score will be applied toward their “wild card” spot calculation.

A list of our Sponsors
TABLEWAR
Gale Force Nine
Battle Foam
Battle Ready Miniatures
Amazing Magnets
The Broken Forge
Miniature Painting Authority
Pair-A-Dice Games!
Millennium Games
Boldo’s Armory
Woodland Scenics
Hot Wire Foam Factory
Warmill Gaming Accessories
Spikey Bits
Allstate
More to come!

A Swag Bag will be given out to everyone that plays in the event!
This is what is located in the swag bag. The bag itself is being donated by TABLEWAR.

Collectable 2011 DaBoyz GT beer Glass with one beer/drink ticket on us
Custom DaBoyz GT “Ork” dice
Custom DaBoyz GT 2011 resin objective markers
Custom bases by Battle Ready Miniatures
TABLEWAR Display trays
Rare Earth Magnets

We also plan on doing a Raffle, so every time someone loses a game they get a raffle tickets. One of the main prizes for the raffle is 1300+ point space wolf army painted by Miniature Painting Authority.
Go to our website to find out more information. www.daboyzgt.com

We've just posted out our sample packs for the swag bag plus a couple of battlesnap kits for prizes. Hope you like!

I'm just about ready for this tourney. Finished painting my last model yesterday evening, just gotta do a little decal work, print out my list and done!

I'm looking forward to this one and having some yeulings!

We got over 90 people signed up for the 40k Event!

I wish you guys had exclusions to the comp bracket...I think that I should be awarded max composition for fielding Necrons at all at a GT, but mine don't qualify to play. :(

Jay_Daboyz wrote:We got over 90 people signed up for the 40k Event!

You have 8 just from my group alone!

still trying to get the weekend off so my son and i can attend. Jay tix still left ?

question on the comp.

does the trygon and trygon prime count as the same heavy?

btw wish this tournament the best

Oops.

thehod wrote:question on the comp.

does the trygon and trygon prime count as the same heavy?

btw wish this tournament the best

Yes, its the same thing regardless of options

Let me start by saying I have nothing against comp events.

That being said, I dislike the fact that all six painted armies that I could use for this event are illegal due to this specific comp setup. Codexes with only 1 Troop choice are penalized for taking 5+ of them? Even at half points, that's a little absurd.

And I'm talking about powerhouses like No-Termi BT and Rough Rider IG.

Good luck at any rate.

zedsdead wrote:still trying to get the weekend off so my son and i can attend. Jay tix still left ?

We still some tickets left. I hope you can come.

lol 205-80= I wouldnt be able to play if i tried. Ouch Comp!

culsandar wrote:Let me start by saying I have nothing against comp events.

That being said, I dislike the fact that all six painted armies that I could use for this event are illegal due to this specific comp setup. Codexes with only 1 Troop choice are penalized for taking 5+ of them? Even at half points, that's a little absurd.

And I'm talking about powerhouses like No-Termi BT and Rough Rider IG.

Good luck at any rate.

I think your post brings up a common misconception about comp, especially with this event. At least how we're doing comp here, it's less about restricting power house biulds and more about increasing variety within army lists. Like you said, No-Termi or Rough Rider IG would get hit quite a bit. So would mono-legion Chaos, but it's not about restricting power level.

I like to think of it as another test of generalship. I see it as another way to modify one of the basic parameters of the game to see how well you choose your army and how well that army does. It's akin to creating your own missions. You have to biuld your army to fufil the goals of the missions (testing your list biulding ability), and then you need to actually do it on the tabletop (testing your generalship during the game). We take it a step further by restricting the number of units you can spam.

If you look at the top tables at many events around the country, you'll see a lot of spam (which is perfectly fine). How can we push the comfort level of competitive players, making them take different lists than what exists in the current meta, and test their generalship ability? Our answer is this comp system.

Also, six armies and you can't build a list that scores 30 with any one of them? Seriously? I have Chaos, and a steaming pile of crap would be better than anything in the FA section, but I still could field a 30 point army with what I have.

Warmaster Primus wrote:
I think your post brings up a common misconception about comp, especially with this event. At least how we're doing comp here, it's less about restricting power house biulds and more about increasing variety within army lists. Like you said, No-Termi or Rough Rider IG would get hit quite a bit. So would mono-legion Chaos, but it's not about restricting power level.

But how do you justify penalizing someone for not having variety in their troop choices, even if they are only allowed one type? Chaos book has how many types of troops choices in it? Mono-legion is a choice you make at army selection. Necrons or Templars on the other hand...

I like to think of it as another test of generalship. I see it as another way to modify one of the basic parameters of the game to see how well you choose your army and how well that army does. It's akin to creating your own missions. You have to biuld your army to fufil the goals of the missions (testing your list biulding ability), and then you need to actually do it on the tabletop (testing your generalship during the game). We take it a step further by restricting the number of units you can spam.

I agree with this, and this is why I don't have a problem in general with comp. I like the additional test of generalship, much in the way I enjoyed the matchmaking aspect of the ATC. Having played fantasy for some time, I'm very familiar about the conception of comp.

If you look at the top tables at many events around the country, you'll see a lot of spam (which is perfectly fine). How can we push the comfort level of competitive players, making them take different lists than what exists in the current meta, and test their generalship ability? Our answer is this comp system.

You can achieve the same affect by disallowing x,y, and z. Don't want people to spam there FA full of vendettas? Make a hard rule that they can't unless they fill x amount of other force org slots.

Also, six armies and you can't build a list that scores 30 with any one of them? Seriously? I have Chaos, and a steaming pile of crap would be better than anything in the FA section, but I still could field a 30 point army with what I have.

Which is why I specified painted armies. I have only painted the models I use in lists, I don't have one of everything.

For example:

My Templar list takes a 20 point hit for having 6 troop choices (because there's only 1 in the book) even though it's two rhino squads, two razor squads with a melta, and two las/plas squads. Those 4 transports net me another -20. I'm 10 away from illegal on troops alone. Forget the speeders or vindis.

For IG, I'm down 40 points from the matrix alone. Two units of Rough Riders and a squad of Scout Sentinels uses up my alloted fast attack, but since I only have 1 HQ (CCS), 1 Elite (Marbo), 2 troops, and no heavies I take a 80% hit of my alloted leeway. Then after being penalized for not having enough troops, I take a hit for having too many, as both of those troops have multiple infantry platoons and heavy weapons teams. I stopped adding it up when I hit negatives.

My main problem with these formulas is how penalizing your troop selections are. In both of these instances if I ignored the troop penalties my lists would be fine. For the game that is 5th edition in which scoring units (who for most codexes are the troop selections) are so important to success in missions, to limit them seems counterintuitive. By gaming this comp system I could easily make an army with some books with the intent of tabling everyone I fought, but instead of the comp system stopping that it stops me from making balanced lists designed to win by objectives.

This could be mitigated somewhat with missions, saying any infantry units could score, etc. But I've never seen a fantasy comp event that limited your score on taking core selections. I can think of a few books that could game this system, and have lists in mind for most of them. I will be very interested in watching the results of this tournament and how often those same lists are used.

I'll see you all in Chicago next April, at any rate.

I'm really looking forward to Daboyz GT this year. Thats why I'm going to the effort of not only Playing in it, but Bringing not one, but TWO tables to the event. One of them I began building specifically to bring this year.

New table link
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391231.page

Old table link
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/390889.page#3209904

Don't forget the "ETC-style" team event on Friday this year which is a new addition to the event.

http://www.daboyzgt.com/40KTeamEvent.aspx

There are already 11 teams (4 players each) registered and it would be awesome to get 12 or more. If you're coming alone or in a small group, you can try to find more players for a team here:

http://daboyzateam.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=daboyzgt&action=display&thread=3141

Hope to see y'all next week!

I've got a 3 man team so far, if anyone wants to be a fourth let me know

Horst I just shot you a PM.

Galorn wrote:I'm really looking forward to Daboyz GT this year. Thats why I'm going to the effort of not only Playing in it, but Bringing not one, but TWO tables to the event. One of them I began building specifically to bring this year.

New table link
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391231.page

Old table link
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/390889.page#3209904

They are looking good! Unlike most events we give out prizes for the best table. Just like we give out prizes for best painted. One of the prizes for the "best table" will be the Gatehouse and and the Tower and corner set donated by WARMILL

Only thing I don't like about this comp system is the restriction on named / special characters. Any Tau player with the stones to bring Aun'Va should be rewarded, dammit!

NeutronPoison wrote:Only thing I don't like about this comp system is the restriction on named / special characters. Any Tau player with the stones to bring Aun'Va should be rewarded, dammit!

true, but anyone who takes mephiston should be clubbed in the head with the rulebook...

and making a list of special characters that aren't allowed would just cause more problems than its worth.

You get debate either way. A targeted banned/penalty list aiming at the specific awesome/overused characters wouldn't be a bad thing. People do that in WHFB a lot.

Hey Mannahnin you making it out to Da Boyz this year?

I wish. :( I was really hoping to this year but it didn't work out. That's part of why I went to BFS earlier this month. I could only do one or the other and couldn't do my first choice (no offense to BFS; that was a fun time and excellent folks running it).

Mann who were you at the BFS? What did you play?

Hey Joe, I'm Ragnar. I had Chaos Space Marines.

Heh...all you had to say was Ragnar hehe. It was good to see you there again.

After all our Blood Angel talk Ragnar, you are ducking out on beer and 40k with Rick James..... For Shame!

I'M RICK JAMES B@#$H!!!! Sorry I know I couldn't stop doing that at the Boston Brawl and I just can't stop know...

I am a single player looking for a team!! let me know if anyone else is interested? Maybe 3 others we can all get togeather and make a team???

If you are unable to find a team before the event show up Friday morning and let the staff running the event know.

ok Will do! Thansk!

i am so stoked for this tourney........nurgle is my homeboy and he wants to hang. finally got done painting and converting. this will be such a nice change from the spammy games ive been playing for ard boyz and the local tourneys. i think a lot of people going to this will be hobbyists and not run of the mill gamers, and for the record.... i love the rubric and missions.

bah....well word has come down from the big guys. The whole department has been forced over the next 2 weekends. I was afraid of this happening and couldnt make a commitment till they made a decision. Im pretty disapointed i cant go. I really wanted to hang out with Joe, Jay and Shawn.

-sorry guys

ed

Busy packing up now, for those of you playing against me look for the purity seals.... you will know what I mean when you see them.

I am packing up now also! I will be handing out Nurgles Best Brew for all my opponents! A free drink from Papa Nurgle .... and Jones Soda ha ha ha! See you all there!

Sending out a box of prizes from the store with Mr. Justin Cook. Someone make sure Justin doesn't pawn them off for a sixpack and a new teddy bear.

anybody know if guinness will be on tap? do they have well drinks or should i bring a flask?

Me and Nick are heading up tonight - no team tournament but tomorrow it is on like donkey kong. I will have pens and markers for bag nonsense too. AROOO!!!

Good luck folks !

Have a blast! Looking forward to seeing the results!

Hey guys,

We're going to be trying to update our website throughout the weekend with results (http://daboyzgt.com/)

For the team event, Congrats to Team Toledo (aka, The Toledo Tools, aka 3 Jerks and 1 Nice Guy, aka The Toledo Torpedoes - I assume that one is some sort of innuendo) for winning.

Beaver Club snagged Team's Choice/Best Team Appearance. Good job guys!

For those results: http://daboyzgt.com/40KTeamEvent.aspx

Good luck to all the players this year

Sweet! Ongoing updates are the penultimate best thing to being there! (The next-best thing would be live video, like Nova; maybe someday).

is there any live blogging from the event going on?

Yeah, any updates (between beers) would be sweet!

Greg sparks was first going into round four, and I saw wyatt traina as third. I have no idea the standings after the forth round as we did four today and two tomorrow.

I want everyone to know the only reason sparks got a 35 off of me is because I am an idiot.

I could have tank shocked him off of an objective, so he wouldn't have been contesting it... and then I would have drawn the primary for him, so it would have been 25-10 instead of 35-0.

I moved the tank in the opposite direction. I don't know what possessed me to do this... maybe its just 3 games yesterday followed by 4 games today has turned my brain to mush.

Quick update

Going into round 4 the top battle points you had Greg Sparks, Nick Rose, Brandon Vallee, and David Light.

round 4 pairings saw Greg Sparks and Nick Rose played each other and Brandon Vallee and David Light play each other other.

Greg and Nick game was all business. It look like that Greg was beating him early, but Nick Rose came back like a raging bull to win the game.

David also pulled a win against Brandon.

All good games

Going into round 5 here are the match ups:

Nick Rose vs David Light

Joe Cherry vs Wyatt Traina

Greg Sparks vs Brandon Vallee

The total rankings with some soft scores (not all) for the top ten players going into round 5 are:

Wyatt Traina
Andrew Norum
Greg Sparks
Nick Rose
Joe Cherry
Jeff Hobin
Rodney Schuyler
Thomas Reidy
David Light
Nate Stevens

I am waiting for long time friend of Wyatts' (Spacecurves) to call in a bomb threat or something.

It should be interesting.

I will try to keep you posted.

Awesome! What armies are the top folks fielding? Nick's got his Black Templars, is that right? Is Wyatt fielding Orks, or SW, or something else? David, Joe, Greg? Brandon's got White Scars, IIRC?

Mannahnin wrote:Awesome! What armies are the top folks fielding? Nick's got his Black Templars, is that right? Is Wyatt fielding Orks, or SW, or something else? David, Joe, Greg? Brandon's got White Scars, IIRC?

Greg is running Foot eldar.
Nick got Black Templars
Joe is running Grey Knights
David is running Blood Angels
Wyatt is running orks

Last round
we have Nick and Wyatt fighting it out on the top table







Automatically Appended Next Post:
Place Player

1 Nick Rose
2 Nate Stevens
3 Wyatt Traina
4 Jeff Hobin
5 John Willingham
6 Kyle Oman
7 Greg Sparks
8 Chris Courtney
9 Eric Hobin
10 Joe Cherry
11 Joe Johnson
12 Ricky Johnson
13 Shaun Kemp
14 Aaron Stiebits
15 Mike Mutscheller
16 Paul Miglino
17 Rodney Schuyler
18 Jason Hager
19 Thomas Reidy
20 Andrew Norum

Here are the top 20. Nick took the top spot. He did not lose a game all weekend. I also want to say congratulations to Nick getting back on the ETC team.

Player 2 and 3 have the same overall points so they are tied for 2nd and 3rd place.

The event is done! It was a great time. The final results will be posted tomorrow on our web site. daboyzgt.com

The GT was... Okay. there were some SNAFU and FUBAR things that caused a snowball effect of holding up the start of a few things but, on the whole I had fun. Thanks for running this again Jay.

Galorn wrote:The GT was... Okay. there were some SNAFU and FUBAR things that caused a snowball effect of holding up the start of a few things but, on the whole I had fun. Thanks for running this again Jay.

You are correct. The one problem we had was the printer stop working Saturday morning. That really sucked. Good thing we had a back up printer, but we had to install the drivers for the laptop.

One of the other items we had was holding up the results was doing the tallies for the sportsmanship scoring. We asked players to rank there opponents scoring at the end of event. It really gives you a good spread with out affecting the overall final results, but it took to long. We had 4 judges doing this for all the 92 players. That is one item we need revisit for next year.

I want to thank you all for coming.

Well done, Nick!

Wyatt, I was pulling for you, buddy. Next year! Sounds like an awesome event.

As one of the judges and minor TO for DaBoyz GT this year I would just like to thank everyone that came out and attended our event. From what I heard everyone had a great time (even with comp!) and were very happy with the event as a whole.

I would however like to apologize for some of the hold ups we had. As Jay stated we had some technical difficulties Saturday morning and Saturday night, and then sportsman scoring was a nightmare. All of these things will be brought up in our meeting as we plan next years event!

Again thank you for everyone that came and I hope to see even more people next year!

A suggestion I would make for next year - Get an application for your laptop that allows the sending of text messages, and send pairings / results out via text messages.

You can find the results here.

www.daboyzgt.com

I had a blast, cant wait for next year. The only thing that I thought could be improved was that no body knew what you guys wanted for that 30pts the judges award for comp, its obviously subjective and there is clearly a sh*t list of units that offend it.

And I question the paint judging when I see drybrushed and speed painted armies scoring in the 60s. It'd be nice to see a individual breakdown of that so we can see what to improve on.

Awesome to see the results up quickly. That's always nice.

Here's a Link to the Pics I took at Da Boyz This year.

http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Events/Da%20Boyz%20GT%202011/

Greetings All

I was lucky enough to participate in the team event and the tournament itself.

This was my first major GT and I have to say that I was very impressed and had excellent, enjoyable games against all of my opponents.

I heard that some feedback forms/questionaires are going out so I will keep an eye out.

For anyone considering attending the event I would recommend that you look at the results. There are a number of older codeci in the top 20 and you can see by the comp score that strategy and tactics mattered! The composition aspect of Da Boyz is evolving and in combination with a truly broad array of tables and thought provoking missions makes for a very distinct GT experience.

The whole "cup of tea" thing has been posted and debated however I would ask people to keep an open mind. The spirit of the composition is to make you look at your codex and rethink your approach to it and your gaming.

Never once in 9 games did I feel I was beaten or won because of something "spammy" either my opponent or I did something skillful... that was the determining factor. --Aside from rolling 5 ones for 7 termie armour saves in a single throw --

Mature enjoyable game play.. and an event that continues to improve! I am already thinking ahead to next year.

Cheers all

Mongo

---Cold and Fast Soul Drinkers!!!---

Hi

Thanks for the great event. I had a blast as always, and if it wasn't for utterly failing in round 6, I could have pushed past Nick for the overall victory. Instead, I am quite content being tied with Wyatt for 2nd.

As one of the armies that scored in the 60s (68/70), I can assure Ravenous that neither speed nor dry brushing were features of my Ork army.

The extra work that I put into every model, as well as the new stuff, was able to push me from 6th last year into the top three this time around.

Cheers,
Nate

Eh, painting judging is pretty random.

2 years ago I played in the 2009 GT, and got a 74/100 on painting.

Spent a lot of time improving the basing / appearance of my army, using a lot of the same models, got a 34/70 this time.

Oh well

Hi

Painting is the Ice Dancing of 40K - sometimes you get the Russian Judge, and he just doesn't like your stuff.

The variance my Tau Army has received at events has ranged from tied for 2nd (Da Boyz 2009) to waaaaaay down the list at the Adepticon Championships in 2011. At the same time, my buddy's orks scored much higher at Adepticon than they did at Da Boyz this year with new stuff added. Banking on painting is anything but a surefire plan.

Cheers,
Nate

Nate, did you play Tau in the 2009 DaBoyz GT? Your name is familiar -__-

If so, the game we played in the 2009 GT was my finest hour.

Hi

Yes, that was me. Which army was yours? The marines that utterly crushed me after all my broadsides decided to either die or run like little girls, leaving your land raider and termies open to have a field day?

Cheers,
Nate

yup It was my assault sergeant with a thunderhammer who was a hero, though... the rest of his squad all died along the way, but he made it through and took out like 2 squads of crisis suits himself

Hey Nate

No kidding on the painting being random, my army got only 5 points higher then an army that had unpainted models... So you can say Im on the bitter bus a little bit, especially after winning best painted at Conquest that was judged by Golden Daemon winners. I really wanted to see where I took the hits to get me the 33/70.

As for the your orks I know your base is wicked, every models is converted, and the skin is awesome, but you got to admit your battle wagon is drybrushed boltgun, if its not, it came off looking like that and its the biggest model in the army so it kind of stood out :\. I shouldnt have used your army as an example in my post above, there were a 3 or 4 marine armies at the front table that were "speed paint" specials and couldnt figure out what was so fantastic about them.

Looking at the painting matrix your army scored in the top 3 otherwise you would be 65 and scoring perfect in everyother field, so the only way you could have lost those 2 points was not having "wow" worthy diorama bases and display base. I mean compare your army to Kyles, it has more colour variation so its more eye catching sure, but yours had way more conversions, his display base was better but I didnt see diorama bases on his either so why did he get perfect in that and you didnt? My point is why bother having the painting matrix if they are going to make it up as they go along?

Where can I find the rubric for painting and sportsmanship?

I'm hearing some horror stories (not here) and would love to know what all of it gets based off of before I consider making the trek out there next year.

The front table was not necessarily the armies 'picked by judges' as the top armies. They were voluntarily placed there by players to be reviewed and receive votes for 'best painted' if someone liked them.

No army with unpainted models should have gotten more than 2-5 total painting points if you look at the rubric. There were some reports I heard of people 'hiding' unpainted models for when the judges came by.

No idea how they did Sportsmanship, I think it was based on 'favorite player' votes - so you get 5 points for the first and 0 for last. I am not sure all players turned these in, two players told me they ranked me first and another second and I ended up with a 14 overall, which implies in my other 3 games I was last and is a bit surprising to me...

The painting rubric is here....

http://www.daboyzgt.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=IjToXAF0sZ4%3d&tabid=77&mid=454

Hi Josh

No worries.

Regarding my Metal work on all my models, I use the following process:
Tin basecoat
Tin-Boltgun 50/50
Boltgun
Chainmail edging/selective sections for brighter spots
Mud Wash to take it back down and tie it together.

I can definitely understand that it might not look like that much went into it, given that the lighting at the Armoury wasn't stellar and required a close look.

@ Horst - yup, that was the hardest thrashing my Tau has ever taken. There was one time where a Blood Angel took them to the woodshop as well, but not like that...

Cheers,
Nate

the_trooper wrote:Where can I find the rubric for painting and sportsmanship?

I'm hearing some horror stories (not here) and would love to know what all of it gets based off of before I consider making the trek out there next year.

All that info is on the web site www.daboyzgt.com

the sports is based loosely off Jason Buyaki's system. you can find it here:
http://fortbuyaki.blogspot.com/2011/01/tournament-sportsmanship-way-to-do-it.html

The problem is that the top ten painters get chosen by there fellow players.

I do feel with 3 to 4 judges there could be bias opinion, but if you have 90 + players picking all the same armies for best painted. Could all those players get it wrong? Believe me I thought a grot army and another Eldar should have been top 10, but should I really add my bias opinion to change there scores. That would be unfair.

Before you can ask we make sure people put there name on the sheet so they are not just voting for their friends. We double check that with master list showing where people are coming from.

That is same thing for sportsmanship. We also asked players to rank sportsmanship. So each player got 0 to 5 points for each game.

Is either system perfect? No. The only perfect system is not to have these awards.

We used that form of sportsmanship scoring in the first NOVA, and it popularized / was espoused by others thereafter ... works fine, as long as it's explained well enough that people don't get surprised by a "good" score being in the middle of the pack.

hey guys i lost a brand new carhart jacket at the tourney did anyone happen to pick it up or see its last whereabouts?

I was there it was a good time for all I think, Some of the missions favored cretin armies and on day 2 one necron player that tailored his list to fight GK requesting to play a GK player that was above him in rank and the TO let him do it. That was not cool. But other than that it was a great time and had fun!

If by Tailor his list to face grey knights, you mean took one of everything out of his codex, then yes, that is true. That player has been playing the exact same list for all of 5th ed. To suggest he tailored to kill GK is preposterous.

PainTraina wrote:If by Tailor his list to face grey knights, you mean took one of everything out of his codex, then yes, that is true. That player has been playing the exact same list for all of 5th ed. To suggest he tailored to kill GK is preposterous.

You know whats preposterous Wyatt.... THE AMISH!!!!! Personally I was a GK player and I played my first 3 games straight against GK's. Being I asked too not play a 4th against the same army and they said no I don't hold much credit to the statement the judges set up a game.

BTW I will say this, Poker Face was the dumbest scenerios I have ever played. I get the idea they were shooting for but the follow through and wording on it was pretty poor.

Dr_Chin wrote:I was there it was a good time for all I think, Some of the missions favored cretin armies and on day 2 one necron player that tailored his list to fight GK requesting to play a GK player that was above him in rank and the TO let him do it. That was not cool. But other than that it was a great time and had fun!

First of all we use random software that places peopled again each other. Only time we would switch if the software made them someone play the same person twice. You most be talking about Chris Courtney and Eric Courtney. Chris made jokes all weekend about playing the "other" Courtney. Just to see who the best Courtney was. It was game 5. Eric Courtney battles points were 35, 25, 0 and 35. Chris Courtney battle points were 35, 27, 0, and 35. 95 battle points vs 97 battle points. All players had played other players by their battle points. So 2 points does not seem that for far off after 4 games had been played. Sorry it seem that way from the outside.

If Chris army was to win against all grey knight players all weekend, it did not happen. He lost twice all weekend. At least once was a grey knight player. I was watching it because it was the top table.

Besides it you still a game if I did place someone against someone then you still need to win to be the champion. You did not hear Nick Rose whine when he add to play several ETC players and best of field starting at game one.

This is way I hate being a TO. To much crap to goes with it!

Jay_Daboyz wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:I was there it was a good time for all I think, Some of the missions favored cretin armies and on day 2 one necron player that tailored his list to fight GK requesting to play a GK player that was above him in rank and the TO let him do it. That was not cool. But other than that it was a great time and had fun!

First of all we use random software that places peopled again each other. Only time we would switch if the software made them someone play the same person twice. You most be talking about Chris Courtney and Eric Courtney. Chris made jokes all weekend about playing the "other" Courtney. Just to see who the best Courtney was. It was game 5. Eric Courtney battles points were 35, 25, 0 and 35. Chris Courtney battle points were 35, 27, 0, and 35. 95 battle points vs 97 battle points. All players had played other players by their battle points. So 2 points does not seem that for far off after 4 games had been played. Sorry it seem that way from the outside.

If Chris army was to win against all grey knight players all weekend, it did not happen. He lost twice all weekend. At least once was a grey knight player. I was watching it because it was the top table.

Besides it you still a game if I did place someone against someone then you still need to win to be the champion. You did not hear Nick Rose whine when he add to play several ETC players and best of field starting at game one.

This is way I hate being a TO. To much crap to goes with it!

Yeah Jay! Why didn't you give me the easy match ups !?

I played 6 great players right out of the gate and was a well run touranment.

I played the following people:
1. Eric Hobbin IG Guard well known Touranment player
2. Kyla Oman from the Canada and one of Canada top players
3. Shaun Kemp ETC Ork player
4. Greg Sparks wel know infamous Foot Eldar
5. David Light from Houston Top Contender at Wargames con and beat people such as Parker and others
6. Wyatt Traina well he was a Seal but whatever (Just kidding bud)

Was a great time, the venue is great and overall any body who enjoys tournaments dislikes or loves comp should go to the event.

it is unfortuante I agree with this blog: http://akersminis.blogspot.com/ I do like Jay I like the event in genral I am not sure if I do want to go again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PainTraina wrote:If by Tailor his list to face grey knights, you mean took one of everything out of his codex, then yes, that is true. That player has been playing the exact same list for all of 5th ed. To suggest he tailored to kill GK is preposterous.

Yup sad but its true I heard him say it.

The blog is me but it is a honest overview, and everything I wrote in the blog I wrote on the questionaire after the event.

I think this feed back is good for we all learn from what happens, maybe next year there will be some adjustments and things will run smoother and better!

Empchild wrote:The blog is me but it is a honest overview, and everything I wrote in the blog I wrote on the questionaire after the event.

Empchild,

I don't think anything you put in there is negative or bad for saying. Its constructive criticism and as a TO for another event those are the things we look for. That being said I wouldn't scratch off the event. Give them a chance to get better and see how they approve. Running these types of events is not easy or money makers. They are learning experiences out the gate and you can only get better over time.

I talked to Jay and we are going to give him our software from WargamesCon and help him with pairing for next year.

Darkn you have a good point and yes as TO's we see it as critisim and not malicous in nature but I havd found over the years that I need to be ready for the trolls that will blow what is asaid out of perportion. I will most likely give them a year lor two and wait and see how it goes. If things are sounding on the up I will give it another chance, but if not then it is what it is. Sorry for any typos as I am on the phone doing this.

Empchild -reading about the calls being made against you, the judge got the SR one right - from your post it sounds like you didnt declare all shooting with the unit at the same time, but fully resolved the shot THEN declared where the machine spirit was going. This is technically incorrect, as all shooting from one unit is simultaneous.

This could just be the way you wrote it, of course

nosferatu1001 wrote:Empchild -reading about the calls being made against you, the judge got the SR one right - from your post it sounds like you didnt declare all shooting with the unit at the same time, but fully resolved the shot THEN declared where the machine spirit was going. This is technically incorrect, as all shooting from one unit is simultaneous.

This could just be the way you wrote it, of course

I think the argument was more about the judging not if he called the split fire or not its how the judge handled the call.

thanks!

Chin you are correct and nos you are grabbing at shadows budy. I had declared everything what the judge wanted was for me too stay on the downed ship and not be able to machine spirit anything else. The judge constantly kept comming over and would go against his own rulings and it was out of angst. The judge told me I was being a prick to the kid for calling him out on cheating on several occassions. In the end that was placed in there too show more the angst from my end over the poor judging overall.

Empchild wrote:Darkn you have a good point and yes as TO's we see it as critisim and not malicous in nature but I havd found over the years that I need to be ready for the trolls that will blow what is asaid out of perportion. I will most likely give them a year lor two and wait and see how it goes. If things are sounding on the up I will give it another chance, but if not then it is what it is. Sorry for any typos as I am on the phone doing this.

Emp,

You can ask Jay and Crimthan on the feedback I gave them last year and how much I raised on their boards. They worked with a lot of people and different personalities to try to make this years event better which I think they did. The event will be ever changing though that is for sure and they do have open ears.

I had a blast and was already bouncing ideas off of the persons I was driving home with for an army next year.

Thanks to all the people that helped run the singles tourney

Empchild wrote:Chin you are correct and nos you are grabbing at shadows budy. I had declared everything what the judge wanted was for me too stay on the downed ship and not be able to machine spirit anything else. The judge constantly kept comming over and would go against his own rulings and it was out of angst. The judge told me I was being a prick to the kid for calling him out on cheating on several occassions. In the end that was placed in there too show more the angst from my end over the poor judging overall.

Also curious about your blog feedback.

"comp: This is a contraversal issue for many, and I personally have no issue with comp at a tourney... if it's done right. Initially we had a rubric we had too go off of that was out of 80, I personally score 70 pts (I took a untooled pure close combat falchions gk army). After this initially submitted rubric that we knew what our score would be the judges would grant up too an additional 30 points of comp. The problem was this was a blind comp decision and they refused too even state how they graded it. I personally recieved an additional 10 points, while another grey knight player took 30 for a full 110pts. He was a local....hrmmmmm but when I asked one of the judges he argued with me saying no GK player recieved max comp. I offered to show him on the list they posted but he refused to look and keep telling me I was wrong. The judges also refused when asked to at least explain to us how they graded the blind comp portion. This pissed a lot of players off and there was many grumbles."

Final results and scores are here: http://www.daboyzgt.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=K5rg1VCnUgM%3d&tabid=96&mid=468

Only 2 armies out of 91 received 30 judged comp, despite what you said in your blog. One Tau army (not local) and one CSM army (not local). There were 2 local GK players and I was one of them, scoring an 80+ 18. I took an inquisitor (no grenades, no psycannon) with a henchman unit that had acolytes, servitors, jokaero, assassins, and crusaders. Can you point out which GK player scored full comp as you claimed in the blog?

The only real problem was organizational (and I was led to believe there was a buffet!), which can be handled for next year.

When I went to the DaBoyz GT 2 years ago, it had no fantasy segment running at the same time, and was like 40 people less.... so organizational problems were probably much less noticable then.

The missions were fine for the most part, though the hot potatoes mission was a bit dumb... immobilized land raider turn 1 with an objective thrown right next to it on turn 4... no way to move away, and too late to pick up the objective and throw it back. GRRR!!!

Empchild wrote:...I had declared everything what the judge wanted was for me too stay on the downed ship and not be able to machine spirit anything else...

I think what Nos is saying, which is implied from your post, is that the judge is correct in that all shooting from the vehicle is simultaneous. Which means if you say, I melta the Rhino, roll, pen, damage, explode you cannot now say I want to then Machine Spirit a lascannon into the Land Raider. You probably did not mean it that way, but I had the same thought when reading it.

Chris Courtney talks smack, if you do not hear the whole conversation or do not know the context it is easy to mistake what he says. That list may eat Grey Knights due to the Nightmare Shroud and Pariahs, but I have seen him play it for years now. It has slight adjustments to get the Comp score but is otherwise unchanged.

I agree with your assessment about being sure to clarify the missions so the intent is clear on each. I liked most the missions, but interpreting them could be confusing.

The most disappointing thing I have heard about this event is they allowed unpainted models to be played on the table. I am unsure how that was allowed to stand.

I'll clear up the problem with the Stormraven ruling right now, as I was the judge that has made the "controversial ruling".

Patrick (the 13 year old playing against him, not 15) walked up to me and asked "his Stormraven just blew up my vendetta with it's Multi-Melta and now he wants to use the Stormravens Assault cannon to shoot at my veterans that were in the vendetta". I walked over to the board and calmly told Emp that he cannot do that. In order to use Power of the Machine Spirit you have to declare what each weapon is going to shoot at before any dice are rolled.

For example "My Crusader's Multi-Melta is going to fire at your Chimera and my Assault Cannon is going to use PotMS to shoot at your Hydra over there" and then the dice fly. What this player wanted to do was "My stormraven is going to shoot it's multi-melta at your vendetta. Ok, now that I blew up your vendetta I am going to use PotMS to shoot my Stormraven's assault cannon at the veterans that just got out of the vendetta". That is in incorrect interpretation of the ruling and I called him out on it.

That aside I am sorry that you did not enjoy your experience at our event. Until I saw your post I have had dozens of players come up to me (including some of the most respected names in the game: Greg Sparks, Nick Rose, Wyatt, Ricky Johnson) come up to me and thank me for running a good and fun event. Am I under any illusions that it went off without a hitch? Absolutely not. I know we had hiccups with technology, pairings, and some of the missions. I will take your constructive criticism to heart and use it to continue growing DaBoyz GT.

However, I will not tolerate being accused of favoritism or cheating. I'm sorry you didn't like the ruling about your Stormraven but it was the right one. Admittedly that was the only time I went over to your table, but I can assure you that other judges wouldn't have had sided with Patrick just because he was a local, as we constantly correct him for making rule mistakes and such.

EDIT: Just to make sure that the rule was clarified for you Emp I took my ruling to Dakka as a whole. Here it is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/406547.page

So please before you start accusing a 13 year old of cheating and favoritism among the judges please make sure that you yourself are playing the game correctly. I know that in a tournament we all get worked up and hyper and can make simply rule mistakes...so if you made this mistake perhaps give a little bit of leeway to others, especially younger kids that are the future of this gaming community.

I am assuming you are trevor so I will say this, don't come here and start a storm lieing. You came over multiple times and made comments and other snipes and went against your own rulings when asked. I personally don't care for you and your lies here and think its funny as all this is going too do is cause more contreversy. BTW Patrick was 15 he told me that so don't start saying I was picking on a 13 year old.

Here's the low and skinny of it some people will either have no issues with the event and get pissy whatever. Some of you will agree fully with me and that's fine either way. I wrote it as I personally saw it and by the conversation I had with my friends on the way home and after. Some people will try and tear apart everything stated and some will see it for the intent it was stated clearly. Take it for whatever it is and decide for yourself all around because like I said personally I will not return next year and I actually have a lot of respect for Jay on this one because I know what its like too organize events and the stress you go under doing it. My two cents and with that I leave you all to your own decisions as it is now several days after and I am done and putting this disapointing weekend behind me as I prep for SVDM and Adepticon two events I respect greatly.

Woah! Easy there cowboy! I'm Andy, not Trevor. I'm the one that wore glasses. I'm sorry if I got Patrick's age wrong. 15, 13, does it matter? The point I meant was on the one particular ruling I made on your game you were clearly wrong, so isn't it logical to assume you may or may not have been wrong on other calls? I never mean offense!

Also I'm not attacking your blog post, I was sincere when I said I would take your concerns to heart and insure Jay will as well. No one foul here. In regards to Trevor I am sorry you feel the way you do about him and if he said anything out of line I am sorry. Again it's a learning experience for new judges.

I had a blast at the tourney - I brought Grey Knights, with an 80 comp and got 12 from the Judges (Thanks, Matt Ward for giving us 2 total troop choices), and did fairly well...until some guy named Mike Mutscheller said disparaging words about my mother, and then it WAS ON. (I kid, I kid. It was a blast to play Mike, and we talked for a while afterwords). Of course, remembering the 2nd day that I had wargear that I totally forgot to use the 1st day, which would have made the difference in some games would have been more awesome.

The one downside I had that weekend was that some lady backed up into my car in the hotel parking garage. Woo.

But hanging out with friends, as well as some of the best players in the country (Shaun Kemp also took me for a ride on his Ork-Sexy-Truck) on the 2nd day, that's it's reinforced my decision to head to Adepticon - Not to merely play, but to re-connect with them and bond over our love for plastic toys.

Or hear more awesome stories about Mike's kids.

-jared

djdarknoise wrote:...Of course, remembering the 2nd day that I had wargear that I totally forgot to use the 1st day, which would have made the difference in some games would have been more awesome.

Were these those servo skulls I asked about in game 5? Had a great game playing you, Daemons vs. GK the way it should be! Hope the insurance stuff worked out for you, those parking garages can be confusing, I prefer to back down them at 15 mph...

Jared, maybe you will learn that parking garages are dangerous places too be driving! How was the drive home for you btw? BTW I loved the 25 minutes we spent waiting on our frostees at wendys.

Hi

Regarding the software, it was the stuff used at the Warmaster's Challenge. We have run a 66 man singles event without a single problem. It normally just takes the click of a button to make it work, and we have never had the problem that was occurring (producing matchups that had already occured, forcing manual checking and changes).

Unfortunately, its designer wasn't down for the weekend, or we could have probably fixed it right after it first occurred after round three.

I don't know what went wrong, but I apologize to Jay, the rest of the organizing team, and everyone that was standing around for an issue that arose from our program. Point the blame for that issue at us.

Cheers,
Nate

calypso2ts wrote:

djdarknoise wrote:...Of course, remembering the 2nd day that I had wargear that I totally forgot to use the 1st day, which would have made the difference in some games would have been more awesome.

Were these those servo skulls I asked about in game 5? Had a great game playing you, Daemons vs. GK the way it should be! Hope the insurance stuff worked out for you, those parking garages can be confusing, I prefer to back down them at 15 mph...

I seriously am the best GK player ever. I should get max sportsmanship for gimping myself the entire tournament.


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Empchild wrote:Jared, maybe you will learn that parking garages are dangerous places too be driving! How was the drive home for you btw? BTW I loved the 25 minutes we spent waiting on our frostees at wendys.

Worth every penny.

Drive home was good, Rochester is a straight shot down 90. Although, I got pulled over. For *NOT* speeding.

I think next time I'm just going to fly. Or take a bus. Or fly a bus.

I got a ticket on 90 for not speeding once too.... I was going 65 in the left lane for too long, and someone sped past me on the right. Cop pulled me over and said that lane is for passing only, and because I blocked the other guy from passing me in it, I got a ticket.

Later I realized that nobody could legally pass me anyway, so I shouldn't have gotten a ticket :(

Horst wrote:I got a ticket on 90 for not speeding once too.... I was going 65 in the left lane for too long, and someone sped past me on the right. Cop pulled me over and said that lane is for passing only, and because I blocked the other guy from passing me in it, I got a ticket.

Later I realized that nobody could legally pass me anyway, so I shouldn't have gotten a ticket :(

Nah, not really, they have that lane designated as "passing only", so even when driving the speed limit you're supposed to be in the right lane, only moving to the left to pass.

Now, whether it's still a stupid, stupid rule is up for debate..

well yea, but the fact is it would be illegal for anyone to pass me ANYWAY, because I was going the posted speed limit.

So, the cop ignored the guy who blew past me at 80, and gave me a ticket instead. Lovely!

On an interstate you can excellerate up to 15 mph over the posted speed limit too pass somone as long as you return within 5 mph of the speed limit within 150ft, ergo it is legal . Several of my friends are state police and showed me the law on it since I was curious.

hyv3mynd wrote:I took an inquisitor (no grenades, no psycannon) with a henchman unit that had acolytes, servitors, jokaero, assassins, and crusaders. Can you point out which GK player scored full comp as you claimed in the blog?

Aaron, it's Paul, we met up round #3. Your GK's against my IG. What a chess match down to the wire. As I recall, no one wanted to make that first move. Sure enough, turn 4, here comes your Storm Raven rocketing over to contest my objective. It took two full turns with everything I had to bring it down but fortunately I did and held onto the draw. Great game! Hopefully we'll run into each other again.

Best,
Paul

It was a close game Paul. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if we both didn't make epic errors or run out of time. Between you forgetting 9 plasma shots and me forgetting fortitude on the stormraven, the game could have gone very differently for sure.

I'm sure we'll cross paths again sometime for a rematch, perhaps Tennessee next year if the dicehead guys run the ATC again and if I make the local team.

Wish Paul forget his plasma against my paladins, that was a sea of hurt....

This has to be Josh! Another epic match! The best one I had in recent memory. That game was insane and if it wasn't for your failed morale check, who knows? My game against Aaron had quite a few things going on for both of us and we were overcome in thought. So much so that we short changed ourselves.

Both games were hard fought as you both are very good players! A pleasure meeting you both.

Paul

NotThisTime wrote:This has to be Josh! Another epic match! The best one I had in recent memory. That game was insane and if it wasn't for your failed morale check, who knows? My game against Aaron had quite a few things going on for both of us and we were overcome in thought. So much so that we short changed ourselves.

Both games were hard fought as you both are very good players! A pleasure meeting you both.

Paul

Don't worry Paul you will soon reach the stars

Nick, enjoy the moment, for it will indeed be short lived.

NotThisTime wrote:Nick, enjoy the moment, for it will indeed be short lived.

Sniff Sniff... Do I smell a challenge for leadership of the clan!

Well I had a great game against Paul round 5. He absolutely wiped the floor with me but I pulled a hard matchup against a very very nasty list (damn you colossus!) and a very awesome opponent. Great to meet you Paul and hope to see you next year

Rick, my dice were hot. A couple different die roles here or there and those storm ravens would have been in my face. Needless to say, it was a pleasure to have met you and I look forward to round 2 sometime. Maybe I'll see you at Adepticon.

Paul