I've been wondering how the average dakka user feels about them

Mine is 7/10. Considering the fact that nearly all my money goes to them and I love their games and fluff stories, it should be 10, but the prices and some other recent issues (finecast) put a dent into that. But I still like them.

How do you feel about them?

I'll give them a 5.

I deducted 2 points for the prices, 1 point for the lack of two way communication, 1 point for not promoting the DIY aspect of the hobby anymore and 1 point for turning WD into a catalogue.

6/10
If they were better at pricing and organising events it would be a 10. Also, I don't like finecast.

Love the products, the universe, the fluff, the history, everything they churn out is brilliant, though price increases and this secrecy thing does them down in my opinion. I do wish white dwarf was more as it was 10 years ago too.

I would complain about FINEcast, but don't feel like I should as the customer service more than makes up for it. I also don't want to turn this thread into a finecast hate march either!

I went 8/10 ... they generally have everything I need (I haven't branched out into converting, modelling, other aspects of the hobby ... yet) and the prices are something I can deal with.

5/10.

Love the universe, hate the company and games that control it.

I gave 3/10.

I love the background they created, and for many years GW were the only figures I bought, especially the specialist games range (when fully supported). I also looked forward to WD each month.

Now, my love for them has waned considerably. The prices are crazy, and getting crazier all the time, the range of games they support has dropped, and the way they treat customers these days, especially in the Southern hemisphere is just pathetic, and frankly, what they have allowed WD to become is just criminal.

GW was once a bright, vibrant & innovative company worthy of support, now they are just a plain greedy, vindictive company who seem to hold it's customers in total contempt, while wanting them to pay exhorbitant prices for sub-standard product ('finecast').

I voted 10/10 (I am not a total fanboy) But I really like the company that does this for me, I have a great time at this hobby, prices could be lower, but they aren't horrible.. and I actually LIKE finecast from what I have seen. I think GW is an awesome company, and honestly, without fantasy and 40k, I would probably be playing Xbox with my spare time, so it is probably good for me.

4/10. love the fluff and a lot of the models look nice, but the rules are horrible now (40k) and the prices are pretty steep. the neglect to specialist games is also a big thing for me.

GW has lost me as a customer for many years now. i have moved on to other game systems.

3/10 pretty much done with GW at this point. 8th ed WFB is a wreck. Can't stand the shift to over sized vehicles in 40K. Warhammer historical seems to be trying to run off their customers. Still Devlan Mud must count for something....

Pretty low these days, but they get points (3 of 10) for very good technical quality of their plastic sculpts, even if I think many of the new models are overdesigned in the extreme.

I feel I have become too old for both the fluff and the games, or, alternately, GW has made the fluff and the games too childish for me.

They make really nice minis (+3) and terrible, basic rulesets (+1) that make my friends fight each other (-2) that I can't afford (-2).

0/10

My only major complaint is that I wish they'd write their rules a little tighter, and be a little more on the ball with the FAQs.

Other than that though, I really don't have anything bad to say. 9/10

8/10 because games are fun, minis are good, customer service is excellent.

minus points for price and 'white dwarf factor' ie no communication until the day then: ZOMG ITS UBER BUY OVAR NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND OF THEM!)

Paints, minis are some of the best. Fluff is good. Rules hit and miss- it's not tight like warmachine but warmachine is a ccg with minatures as far a s I'm concerned.

Badly run 4/10.

The fact that I can't actually buy their product without a large inconvenience, and then have to pay a lump of money on top of RRP, means my score is 3/10.

I love the background and imagery, a lot of the model range (although I don't like the recent movement towards large, almost toy-like plastic kits), but I feel the company has been badly run since they started selling shares - at that point, a slow downward slide began, and the company is now run by money men who care little for the hobby and those who take part in it.

I still believe there are a core of creative types at the heart of the company, and the occasionally stunning work they produce (such as the DE), as well as the reading material coming out of BL and FW is the only reason they don't get a 0 or a 1.

10 / 10

-3 : For WHFB 8th Edition
-1 : For Necromunda
-1 : For Mordheim
-1 : For BFG
-1 : For unexplainable price hikes
-1 : For Failcast
-1 : For horrible trade practices with online retailers and mortar and brick stores alike
-1 : For WD

I could go on but they are already at 0 / 10, so I gave them a 1 / 10...

Hey look guys, it is this thread again.

I honestly cannot rate a company that provides models to build and paint, saying GW is the hobby is sort of pointless as there are other companies that make miniatures and game rules. Honestly the best way to to voice your opinion about GW is to vote with your wallet, as senseless complaining is worthless, and also a waste of time.

But to be completely honest, if I was offered a NIB Land Raider or a WtA rulebook for five dollars I would take the book and cackle maniacally as I ran away from the guy.

So a resounding I do not care out of ten.

btemple0 wrote:Hey look guys, it is this thread again.

I honestly cannot rate a company that provides models to build and paint, saying GW is the hobby is sort of pointless as there are other companies that make miniatures and game rules. Honestly the best way to to voice your opinion about GW is to vote with your wallet, as senseless complaining is worthless, and also a waste of time.

But to be completely honest, if I was offered a NIB Land Raider or a WtA rulebook for five dollars I would take the book and cackle maniacally as I ran away from the guy.

So a resounding I do not care out of ten.

Hey look guys, it is this post again.

Was this even necessary? I find it ironic that you think senseless complaining is worthless and a waste of time - what exactly, then, is your own post?

Someone asked a question about the general opinion of GW. As of yet, the discussion has been reasonable and peaceful - it's not a 'GRR! I hate GW, and so should the rest of you!' thread, but a 'What's your overall opinion of GW? I think they're doing ok, but there's a couple of things wrong with them, and here are my legitimate reasons for concern' thread.

If you don't care, why do you feel as though you need to let everyone else know?

I like their games and fluff a whole lot but find that they are a bit costly - so 7/10.

Usually get very good service from any individuals I have spoken to in the company from the stores to the telesales

8/10


They're alright. I love chaos space marines, so I guess I have to love GW... Or play black crusade.

8/10

I like GW. They're making some silly mistakes, but that's nothing bad. Does anyone remember the iPod Mini?

Anyway, they make a great game, have the best customer service I have ever seen, and are very big in helping out the community. They're not perfect, so 8/10 seems fair.

6/10 should be an 8 but the 'recent' price rises has put me off buying some of the 'one per army' models ie gulavar and carnosaur, I was happy paying 23 or 30 for them but not 30 and 40 (pounds sterling).

always friendly when i visit, trying to sell me stuff don't care there a shop and actually are less persistant than others (ie phone shops), most workers know answers to my questions, finecast, meh I've had problems with all metals I've brought and atleast in the part where they ain't missing fingers easier and faster to fix. Oh and nice models.

6/10

The GW of my youth is gone and will never come back, so all those classic RT Era minis are something that I have to haggle on Ebay for and the feeling that the company is run by people that I might have something in common with if I happened to meet them in a pub is long gone...so boo hoo, nothing is going to change that.

The quality of the sculpts and some of the new areas that GW has diversified into have improved though, for certain. Forge World and the modern Black Library are (pardon the pun) literally worlds apart in stature from the guff that used to pass as GW fiction or specialist minis and kits.

The people on the phones are still great to deal with and some of the staff in the stores have evolved from the cave-dwellers they used to employ.

Better than average, but some of the old spark has just gone.

Oh, and WD is crap.

Im with the OP on this one. I give them a lot o money and really enjoy the hobby aspect of the game, but i also feel like they have dropped the ball a bit of late. Bad codex, bad rules, bad finecast. NOT A perfect ten from me either.

I'll give them one

7/10 for me.

I like GW, but then i just started so all the fluff and what not is new to me.

I knocked them for finecast and prices. I never got to do metals. I didn't start until after finecast but the few models I have seen I've passed on. To be honest they look like they require more skill then i posses at this point in time. I really don't want to pay top price for something that is subpar and requires large amounts of skill to put together without breaking.

I would imagine that at least with metal you had to be a real cluts to break it.

Well GW is def not what it use to be, WD is not what it use to be -1(beating a dead horse), Prices are very high -1(said a 1000 times), Finecast I don't personally like -1 but on the flip side, It easier to get in to 40k and fantasy now than it was 10-15yrs ago +1, you can still purchase older non supported games and collectors miniatures (even though the prices are ridiculous) +.5, good customer service, plus decent online painting articles, and being able to survive and grow when other gaming compaines have simply vanished or failed earns them another +.5 so I rate them a 9/10.

4/10.
WHFB 8th is shocking, 40k is getting real old real fast and the lack of support for other games systems is woeful. The prices are mental, failcost was a complete farce and the lack of sneak peaks is terrible. WD is nowt but a catalogue now, nothing like it was 10-15 years ago.

But, the fluff is ace (bar a certain Mat(t) W), and the books are pretty cool too. This saves GW from being a complete train wreck. This and the fact that 2nd Ed is still viable and awesome fun to play as well.

I'm going 6-7/10. The plastics are awesome, Finecast has been ironed out a bit, and there's a lot of crossover between the codices (according to the leaked Necron fluff) which I like a lot. Makes things feel more unified in 40k. In addition, the video games are better than ever, with Space Marine and Dawn of War II: Retribution. Finally, the BL books have gotten better since Aaron Dembski-Bowden signed on, and he does great work.

On the downside, GW hates Australia, WD is getting a little better but not enough, and the annual price rises suck. Their tight-fisted rumor policy is irritating, but they said at GD during a seminar that it was only a test, and if people didn't like it they'd change.

It's two steps forward and one or two steps back for me. If I was in Australia or elsewhere in the Southern Hemisphere I'd definitely rate them lower.

I like them. 7/10. But I tend to be fairly harsh on 1-10 tests. I can't think of ANY company I'd give a 10 to.

6/10, simply because of prices and lack of customer communication and imbalances/codex creep.

There really isnt anything else to complain about, great models, great fluff, but those are huge concerns.

6/10

Pros: I love the background and many of the models GW produces. Even if I gave up the game I would buy the occasional model to paint. Love Black Library, maybe even more than actually playing the game or modeling.

Cons: Recent price increases, the price to field a competitive army is almost prohibitive with lower points values and higher cost per model. Poorly worded rulebooks and army books across the board. Lack of models for some ranges, lack of weapon options included with certain models/boxes.

Like the 40k universe, but hate the GW universe: high prices, secrecy, lack of communication.

4/10

I love most of the models.

The fluff has been going more and more peculiar year by year (shaman generated Emperor? , The new Grey Knights stuff etc etc )

The built in pro-imperial slant is incredibly annoying, as is the ludicrously long wait between non-imperial updates. The armies being 50% imperial variant to 50 non-imperial is vexing also.

The company's secrecy policy, business practises and pricing are a major turnoff.

The ruleset is poorly written, and baised towards a melta and vehicle spam meta that favours certain armies..

Can't fault the models (mostly) but the rest..

I loved GW when I was younger, yes people called them the 'evil empire' back then too, but now I agree. I'm fed up of their aggression towards the rest of the industry and the way they define themselves as the be-all of wargaming, the paranoia about the wider gaming world. White Dwarf is a rag. The prices have gone to insanity. The finecast is a turn off. Their business practices towards places like Australia just make me shake my head, although I'm not directly affected by it I sympathise with the frustration. It simply can't be ignored. GW simply isn't the company I grew up with, they have dumbed down their game systems and the fluff and their 'hard sell' techniques make visiting their shops almost so painful that I simply steer clear. I buy very little GW now, but when I do it's from anywhere but a GW store.

Their models are typically very good. The Finecast look horrible but that's a recent change, the metal and plastic of recent years has been superb irrespective of the prices, but there's a lot of other people churning out the same for less. The only other thing they get right is customer service, you have a broken/miscast model they'll replace it fast. Yes it's their legal duty to do so, but they really do a good job of it.

2/10

Irredeemable company that holds nothing but contempt for their customer base. The fact that they produce pretty little toys in no way divorces them from their corrupt business principals, inability to make effective business decisions, insane and inane need for secrecy, or the laughable rules they push.

Whatever the opposite answer is to the last time my opinion on this was asked for. Just to confuse and annoy and because my opinion will not change them unless suddenly I get enough cash to buy a controlling share of the company.

For me, my distaste for GW is death by 1000 cuts. I give them 2/10. Here's how I rated:

Started at 0.

How awesome is the GW Hobby? THIS AWESOME...

+5 for engrossing background.
+5 for generally awesome models.
+5 for excellent customer service.
+5 for extensive player network.
+5 for great paint range
--------------------------------------------------
+25/10

Things GW did to chip away at my loyalty:

-1 for axing bitz service. I understand why they did it, but it doesn't lessen the disapointment.
-1 for price differences across regions (GWUS/GWCAN era). - I live in Canada, paying an average of a 25% premium and then 15% tax over the US MSRP is hard to swallow.
-1 for price differences across regions (GW North America Era)
-1 for AUS embargo
-1 for corporate excues to justify above price diferences.
-1 for annual price adjustments (built up over over 10+ years).
-0 for Finecast
-1 for making Finecast more expensive than the 2nd edition models that they are recasts of.
-1 for corporate excuses to justify above price increases (built up over over 10+ years).
-1 for axing their loyalty promotions.
-1 for axing sales and auctions.
-1 for dumbing down of core ruleset.
-1 for enforced reverse compatibility between v3 to V5.
-1 for slow releases to fix problems generated by core ruleset changes.
-1 for relasing more SPESS MEHREIENS EQ. than all the non MEQ armies combined.
-1 for lack of FAQs in light of the slow release cycle to fix problems generated by core ruleset changes.
-1 for gutting the RT tournament support.
-1 for axing the Canadian GD / GT circuit.
-1 for axing the Canadian events team.
-1 for axing the US events team.
-1 for marginalizing White Dwarf (no player features, few masterclasses and death of Chapter Approved)
-1 for initiating very tight rumor control, trying to prop up White Dwarf with this move and trying to paint this move as justified.
-1 for marginalizing Specialist Games
-1 for sending Cease and Desists to their fanbase
--------------------------------------------------
-23

Hence: 2/10

My general opinion: My favorite wargame/models (WH40K) are made by my least favorite company (GW and it's many fails and flaws).

Sort of like refusing to leave an abusive relationship...

4/10.

If you'd asked me 6-8 years ago I'd have said 10/10.

The downfall has been recent, and it has been quick.

WD got ruined, specialist games stopped, prices tripled, lawsuits got handed out like candy, army books ceased to have any attempt at balance and had their background butchered.. then to top it off we got southern hemisphere ban and finecast this year.

As for Mantic? Freaking 10/10. For a company with a dozen employees it is doing a hell of a lot of things right (interacting with community, open betas on it's rules, mantic points, cheap models, free rules with balanced and constantly updated army lists, one specialist game and expansion released, mantic journal is a great read), and damn-near approaching GW in terms of product range (Kings of War, at least is a currently viable and excellent alternative to warhammer, with 5 released armies).

Unfortunately, you won't find many people that will take that into account, the vast majority of people are happier to pay GW prices and put up with anything because the product range is massive, the sculpts are good, and the *background* is good.. that's the only thing that GW really has left IMO, the evocative background that was laid down all those years ago.

My general opinion about GW is the following balance.

Pros

1- Spacehulk
2- Citadel washes and primers
3- The original genestealer fluff and Nids
4- Superb Plastic kits
5- Starter deals
6- The fact that GW in the past made our hobby something more mainstream for all
7- Golden Deamons
8- Old games like necromunda, mordheim, bloodbowl etc
9- The artwork
10- The huge numbers of sculptors they trained and sacked (that then opened new miniatures companies...)

Cons
1- Finecast
2- Overpriced
3- Anti Net
4- Anti Marketing
5- Fluff simplifications
6- Shifting from a cool nerd game for all ages to something JUST for kids
7- Legal issues and fan bullying ( bloodbowl for example) ( freeloaders and embargo episodes)
8- Model quality is no longer the best in the market.
9- Immense time gaps between your army of choice updates and the silence treatment between that
10- Red books and silly ridiculous ways of presenting themselves to a much informed fanbase.

THere are more things and its probably a tie... If I was to base my opinion just based on the present it would be a very negative note but I cannot discard the brilliant past and some of the things they did... 6/10

The problem is that many new companies today do have a higher score IMO.

Low on the totem pole. Not at the bottom, though (yet).

They produce nice miniatures (but aren't alone in this).
They produce middling games rules (not the worst I've seen, but I have definitely seen better).
Their marketing is nonexistent outside of their stores.
Their sales model is flawed.
Their monthly catalogue is expensive and lacking other content.

Yes, I like their game background (well, the original one, not this pious and zealous space k-niggits crap) but I liked them before they were *homaged*cough* from their sources to make it.
I like bits of the backgrounds of other games, too. I got spacehulk (1989) not because it was a game in the 40k universe, but because it was a 'marines v aliens' game on a tunnel board.

When I started out, they were probably an 8 or so. We had no GW stores (ONLY independents, we've had their stores for around 20 years).
Over the years, that rating has slid down the pole to hover slightly below a 3.
At least it's higher than the rating I give to WD (I'd give it a negative if I could but that would mean I cared more about it than I do).

8.

They charge too much for how many models you get, but, you can work around that with a little effort, and all companies are out to maximize their profits, I dont see why their aggressive sales pitch annoys people to the degree it does. Just do what I do, never go into the GW stores and use Ebay, and it goes right on over your head.

Fact is, their games background pisses all over everything else out there. I have never read a background story for another game that is anything like as absorbing, and the BL has released some genuinely good sci-fi, far far better than I believed it would be when I cynically picked up the Eisenhorn trilogy expecting it to be sub par fan fiction for a toy game.

MrMerlin wrote:I've been wondering how the average dakka user feels about them

Mine is 7/10. Considering the fact that nearly all my money goes to them and I love their games and fluff stories, it should be 10, but the prices and some other recent issues (finecast) put a dent into that. But I still like them.

How do you feel about them?

When I started playing, 10/10. As they continued on thier downward spiral, my journey to the mountains of madness progressed from 100% behind the company to a rather agitated fan, to an irate ex fan in the space of six to eight months. Now it is at 0/10. I give two craps about thier industrial strength B.S. that they continue to fleece the general public with, and they are now a laughing stock joke of the industry of how not to be.

I'm now back to the beginning of my introduction to GW's Rogue Trader, and trying to recapture the magic, fun, wonder, or whatever it was that first attracted me to them.

I have that feeling with RAFM's UFX line, combined with Reaper, Cobblestone, etc, but as far as GW? No. I'm digging thier old stuff out of nastalga, rather then any real sense of attraction to thier new stuff. If anything, I'm just apathetic to the current brain trust that have taken it upon themselves to @#$% up a perfectly good system. I see the money grubbing, the double speak, and the hypocracy for what it is, and hope that one day they see it in themselves to actually have an epiphany and wake themselves up from thier assclownishness kool aid swill stupor that they have themselves continued to push onto the market in general, and just fail so badly that they go back and relearn the lessions of thier past that put them on the top of the industry once upon a time.

Old gaming has the advantage of not being Tinkered with by know it alls and has beens that have taken it upon themselves to run GW into the ground.

Necromunda is still safe with me, and I have an on again off again fun factor with Mordhiem, and I play it with more... unconventional gangs thwen I do with GW's stuff.

I play a little Cutlass, and am getting my paint on with PP's stuff, though I'm, not a real big fan of some of the jagoff's I've met who are TFG types that are out there. I see them anymore, I just walk the other way. Better for me, better for them.

Other games, such as Golgo Island, Star Mogual, and Cutlass are interesting and, are to me the general next step in games like Necromunda/ Mordhiem.

Going back to the basics of get a handful of miniatures, and play a basic game of gang fight, add in some extra skills and earn some stuff, and improve the gang. I've had great fun with Zombies, Cthuhlu stuff, and some fantasy and Sci Fi stuff.

Best thing is I don't have to shell out fifty to a hundred bucks for a book, when there are a good number of free rules sets out there on the web, and scenarios, additional material and figures are there to go back to square one, and play some fun stuff without having to sell your first born and house for a few boxes of plastic figures, and some metal stuff, along with a set of model tanks, or vehicles for about ten bucks each for as much as you get for 50 from the GW machine.

keezus wrote:For me, my distaste for GW is death by 1000 cuts. I give them 2/10. Here's how I rated:

Started at 0.

How awesome is the GW Hobby? THIS AWESOME...

+5 for engrossing background.
+5 for generally awesome models.
+5 for excellent customer service.
+5 for extensive player network.
+5 for great paint range
--------------------------------------------------
+25/10

Things GW did to chip away at my loyalty:

-1 for axing bitz service. I understand why they did it, but it doesn't lessen the disapointment.
-1 for price differences across regions (GWUS/GWCAN era). - I live in Canada, paying an average of a 25% premium and then 15% tax over the US MSRP is hard to swallow.
-1 for price differences across regions (GW North America Era)
-1 for AUS embargo
-1 for corporate excues to justify above price diferences.
-1 for annual price adjustments (built up over over 10+ years).
-0 for Finecast
-1 for making Finecast more expensive than the 2nd edition models that they are recasts of.
-1 for corporate excuses to justify above price increases (built up over over 10+ years).
-1 for axing their loyalty promotions.
-1 for axing sales and auctions.
-1 for dumbing down of core ruleset.
-1 for enforced reverse compatibility between v3 to V5.
-1 for slow releases to fix problems generated by core ruleset changes.
-1 for relasing more SPESS MEHREIENS EQ. than all the non MEQ armies combined.
-1 for lack of FAQs in light of the slow release cycle to fix problems generated by core ruleset changes.
-1 for gutting the RT tournament support.
-1 for axing the Canadian GD / GT circuit.
-1 for axing the Canadian events team.
-1 for axing the US events team.
-1 for marginalizing White Dwarf (no player features, few masterclasses and death of Chapter Approved)
-1 for initiating very tight rumor control, trying to prop up White Dwarf with this move and trying to paint this move as justified.
-1 for marginalizing Specialist Games
-1 for sending Cease and Desists to their fanbase
--------------------------------------------------
-23

Hence: 2/10

This, a thousand times this. They have so much going for them, yet they seem to bungle it all up in the details.
I think the final straw for me was them trying to sell me DE scourges that could have two of the same special weapon per five models, nay they NEED two of the same special weapon for every five guys to function, and they gave us a box with only ONE of each special weapon in it.

Get frelled GW, I'm tired of being sold what ammounts to incomplete kits, I wouldn't buy a models car that didn't come with 4 freaking tires and I'm not buying any more units that don't come with all the options needed to make them playable.

I'm going with a 5. The universe is fantastic and the models great, but I can't help but feel the game itself is lacking in some way and it is fething expensive.

GW got me into the hobby, but I stayed for the myriad of other companies, rule sets, and miniature lines out there.

I like Games Workshop's universes. As much as stuff gets griped about, I enjoy most of their games. GW's customer service is excellent. However, they do have some rather intense PR issues and they're criminally managed (literally for a while, with Tom Kirby being both CEO and Chairman of the Board, illegal under UK law, and he did exactly what that law was designed to prevent, stuff like *borrowing* money to pay dividends to stockholders which conveniently doubled his yearly salary), they're upper management seems to not quite really understand their customers or demographics or in many cases their own business.

Also, as cliche as it is, their pricing is becoming ludicrous. It's one thing to adjust prices to keep up with inflation. It's another to make it an actual planned event with yearly price step increases. 5 years ago, a Codex was $20, now they're $33. Their cost certainly has not risen by 65%, inflation certainly doesn't account for anything conceivably near that, nor any combination of such factors bar absolutely incompetent management and production mishaps which even for GW seems a stretch so we're left simply with they feel they can get such a price. However, I feel they're pricing themselves out of the market. I've recently picked up two other systems with more than enough models for typical play (Infinity and Firestorm Armada) for less than half what a typical full 2000pt GW WH40k army would be.


So, I should say, I like GW IP, I like their customer service, and I like most of their products, but as an actual corporate entity there's not a whole lot to like.

My score for GW wasn’t too high. The main reason being due to 5th edition rules (lack of quality and balance), lack of non IoM releases, ROW embargo, price, lack of quality in White Dwarf and lack of errata. The lack of quality in their rules was probably the main reason why I quit GW.

Good thing with places like ChapterHouse, MicroArts Studio, Maxmini, it’s possible to follow 40k and not buy GW.

scarletsquig wrote:4/10.

If you'd asked me 6-8 years ago I'd have said 10/10.

The downfall has been recent, and it has been quick.

WD got ruined, specialist games stopped, prices tripled,

So a few years ago basic squads were only $15au?

I remember when you could get 3 rhinos for about the cost of one now.

The prices have got a bit insane.

-Loki- wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:4/10.

If you'd asked me 6-8 years ago I'd have said 10/10.

The downfall has been recent, and it has been quick.

WD got ruined, specialist games stopped, prices tripled,

So a few years ago basic squads were only $15au?

I'll take the catachans boxset as an example.

When I bought it about 8 years ago it was £12 for 20. All basic squads were £12, no idea what that meant in AUD at the time.

Now it's £18.50 for 10, which is an increase of more than triple.

The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

4/10

My initial score of 7/10 was based on my love of GW from long ago, plus the fact that GW still could have the potential to be a good company.

However, with the release of newer armies that still do not fufill their own niche area, with the elimination of metal and the finecast fiasco, plus shoddy FAQing and fluff.

I would say that 4/10 reflects what games workshop has become, and sadly what needs to occur for games workshop to become a major fan-based company.

Ascalam wrote:I remember when you could get 3 rhinos for about the cost of one now.

The prices have got a bit insane.

And I remember when a pack of cigarettes was 89 cents. It doesn't mean the prices are high; it means you're older.

8/10

Amazing customer support, the best product line in the business, awesome fluff, and the stock pays consistent dividends.

If asked prior to failcast I would have said 9/10. Although, I'm against resin products in general.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Keep up the great work GW!

7/10 mostly because they aren't supporting tournament play and marketing themselves as well as they should be.
I don't think they get enough credit for the quality of their plastic kits.

RanTheCid wrote:3/10 pretty much done with GW at this point. 8th ed WFB is a wreck. Can't stand the shift to over sized vehicles in 40K. Warhammer historical seems to be trying to run off their customers. Still Devlan Mud must count for something....

You noticed that too eh? Warhammer historical has been the red headed step child for years.

8/10

Honestly, I think they're a solid company. It's easy from our limited perspective to just blame GW and moan, but IMHO they're expanding and I'm happy for them. They have a great background, decent ruleset, and awesome miniatures.

The only thing I'll harp about is prices. And the number of Space Marine armies.

I gave them a 7. Points were lost because of their ultra expensive prices, particularly in Australia and their 'you can't sell to those outside Europe policy'. But I do love the models, the hobby, the fluff and the friendly staff at my LGS

Hey, thanks for voting and posting guys! With the 200 votes we have now you can see that dakkas opinion of gw is something around 6/10.

Keep 'em coming!

Ascalam wrote:I remember when you could get 3 rhinos for about the cost of one now.

The prices have got a bit insane.

It was 3 rhinos £10 here. Now you pay double that for one .

8/10. Because they make some pretty cool shizz.

3/10 - the universe and fluff was the best thing going for it, but now its stagnant. Minis are nice, but pricey given the amount needed to play. Rules are awful, and there are much more tactical, flowing games to play if you look around.

HI all.
A 3 from me.
Nice asthetic (1)and exelent customer service (1) and usualy helpful/creative/ talented staff(1).

(Pre 1998 they would have got a solid 8 or 9.Honest open two way dialoge with the customer base +1, wide range of games +1 , all games better support +1, boxed games in the main stream for ease of acess,+1,WD was a hobby magazine , not just a minature cataloge+1,the focus was more games by gamers for gamers.+1... )

But honestly the GW plc corperate managment are running the company into the ground while Kirby bloats his pension fund.

If the board of directors was replaced by people who actualy understood the GW products and the most suitable customers for them.
They could work out the best way to bring them together, and MASSIVLEY improves value for money.

Rather than focus on the easiest to please , and the least price sensitive demoghraphic, which is loosing GW sales volumes at an ever incresing rate.
(Because fewer and fewer people can justify paying the prices GW plc think thier producrs are worth.)

4/10

They are a company that I want so badly to succeed, write good rules, put out awesome minis, and support their specialist game line...

But deep down I know most of those goals are completely dead and buried. Sadly, I (and my gaming dollar) have moved on.

I gave them an 8/10.

I like their product and while would like it to be cheaper (I remember 50p dwarfs and £2.50 for 5 marine blisters!), I do not find the price is not off-putting since I don't see many comparable products that differ drastically.

Their introdution of new blood to the industry should not be under estimated and for that they deserve enormous credit, be it from store fronts or the licenced games.

Customer service remains a shining example of how to do it right (take note all other UK comanies!), WD was a real mess but shows signs of improvement (I have actually bought the last 2), Spulk/Dreadfleet have also been a step in the right direction adding important variety to their lines, Finecast after a botched release has turned out some impressive miniatures and they have really stepped up to the mark on the new releases (DE and by the looks Necrons too).

So all in all I guess I like what they make.

I won't expound on the negatives as I see many have already done so, but firmly believe that allot of the issues raised are either understandable (commercially) and/or blown out of proportion.

Dakka says: 5.67 at the time of typing with 221 votes cast.

Me, I scored them quite low (I voted yesterday so I forget, but I think it was a 3).

Prices
Corporate strategy
Quality and consistency of rules
Ridiculous length of rules cycle and failure to errata armies over time
Failure to market and support LotR properly
Finecast
White Dwarf quality and subscription change
Half-arsed HE model refresh (new stuff is in a different scale)

But I like the models and the universes and I find the current iterations of the rules mostly balanced for the armies produced for these editions.

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

Ouze wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

No.

8/10

-1 for Finecast (I liked metals MORE)
-1 for yearly price hikes
-1 for Secrecy
-1 for The legal action against their fans
+2 for the GW store system. While not perfect, it is still great to be able to always have a place to play 40k.

PhantomViper wrote:

Ouze wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

No.

Best. reply. ever.

Ouze wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

So constantly increasing prices is a good way to reflect market demand? Whatever your on, I want some of it.

Right now it's a 7.

When I first got into the hobby it was about 6. Everything seemed expensive as hell and way too complicated. In the years that followed that went to a 7, 8, then 9. When apocalypse dropped it was a true 10 for me. Now its about a 7 for me. Still good but the GW that was 20 minutes away was closed by corporate and now there's just a douchie LGS. And everyone wants to play Warmachine when I'm sitting on an Imperial Horde.

5/10

-Great Minis.
-Excellent Background.
-Have been very good for the growth of the hobby in that the ubiquity of GW means that you can always find a game.
-Excellent customer service regarding ordering, replacements, etc.

VS

-Rediculous prices.
-Slowly whittling DIY out of the hobby.
-WD is a pathetic catalog trying to pass as a magazine.
-Rulesets that are mediocre at best and are updated in ways that seem suspciously designed to make old models bad and new/larger/more models good.

Pacific wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Ouze wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:The vast majority of GW models have either doubled or tripled in price since 3rd edition 40k and 6th edition warhammer.

Isn't the fact that GWS still exists as a business entity despite those all those many price hikes evidence they were under-priced then, and more accurately reflect market demand with the new higher prices now? Just sayin'.

No.

Best. reply. ever.

Yeah, very pithy, but cleverness and image macros aside, the fact remains that no business can remain "overpriced" for, like, 20 goddamn years. Not unless they have a monopoly on something, which GWS does not. If they really were "overpriced" then there would be a market vacuum of competitors making the same product for cheaper and stealing marketshare. Decade after decade, that doesn't happen. Hence, your definition of "overpriced" is suspect. This thread is a good example; the same people who claim GWS are overpriced also keep buying their crap. Overpriced does not mean "I wish it cost less", it means it costs more then I'm willing tol buy, something which clearly is not actually happening.

Ouze wrote: If they really were "overpriced" then there would be a market vacuum of competitors making the same product for cheaper and stealing marketshare.

You mean like PP, Wyrd, Spartan, BF and a few other companies that have been experiencing an increase in sales and general exponential growth whille GWs sales have been decreasing since the end of the LoTR movies? That kind of loss of market share?

Ouze wrote:
Decade after decade, that doesn't happen.

That white helmet you're wearing may be impairing your perception of the hobby world outside of a GW store... Go read the threads about GWs own financial reports and you'll see the steady decline of GW miniature sales in the past years.

Ouze wrote:
Hence, your definition of "overpriced" is suspect. This thread is a good example; the same people who claim GWS are overpriced also keep buying their crap. Overpriced does not mean "I wish it cost less", it means it costs more then I'm willing tol buy, something which clearly is not actually happening.

To you maybe not, to me and countless others, yeah that has happened a few years ago, just because you don't aknowledge it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Do you even realize that only the drastic cost cust measurements that have been implemented in the past few years and the sale of the IP to computer games, board games, etc are the things that are keeping GW above the red with current level of sales?

That was my long version of the "No" reply, btw...

When I joined up, 25 years ago, everything was new and bright and shiny and there was so much to look forward to.

And things just got better and better, for years, every time I opened a White Dwarf, there were things to dazzle and amaze and going to a Games Workshop was cool, witnessing the employees creating amazing models and dioramas and being brought into games was so cool.

Then the Red Age dawned, suddenly the focus switched to the very young kids, around my early 20s, and I found a rapidly changing attitude in the GW store, if I wasn't buying anything, then due to my age I was not so very welcome as I had been. Costs began to creep up and finally I said, at the age of 25, enough. So I quit the hobby after 14 years and had nothing to do with it.

Then, aged 30, I moved from my home town to the big city and met up with old friends who'd remained playing (including dakka's own 'RandyMcStab') and this coincided with the ork range being redone. I found that I really enjoyed the refined rules, the models were once again amazing and having friends playing outside of the stores meant I didn't have to go in them much (as they were now beyond awful, swarming with loud kids, the occasional smelly person and most annoying a certain staff member of the local store who was probably too used to dealing with kids to know how to address another adult).

Yes it was still pricey stuff, but I could now comfortably afford it. I threw myself back into the hobby with a vengeance. I was back on the carousel and enjoying it.

Then the price started skyrocketing, I mean really shooting up.

Then the C&D attacks started vomiting out directed at their own fanbase, some of whom had worked bloody hard to produce things for the hobby that GW had stopped doing.

White Dwarf continued to become more and more worthless.

The creative side of the hobby was being damped down, terrain was now being made by GW.

Then the Tin Price Hike (supposedly a 'temporary measure' during the tin inflation hike, which was never revoked by GW) followed by the Plastic Price Hike (allegedly to 'bring our wonderful plastics in line with the price of our metal range'?!?). The financial reports openly described the 'price elasticity' that the consumer of the product was willing to endure...

Then more and more price hikes.

The bait and switch of metal to resin, a cheaper material, followed by another very sharp price hike despite this being a cheaper material.

The awful way the company deals with 3rd party vendors. The Oz and RoW debacle.

I believe, strongly, that the senior management of the company actively disliked it's player base. I think the design studio is held by the throat by that same management and forced to do some fairly cynical things with codices and rules in order to promote sales over playability. I think we, the very people who make the company exist, are regarded in a highly negative fashion by the people at the top.

I think as time goes on, that I'm riding the carousel less and less, it's becoming very expensive for a ticket and it just goes round and round and gives you a sore arse. I think as time goes on, that there will be other rides at the fair that I'm going to be trying out as well, with cheaper tickets and less pain to the posterior.

Nicely said Stompa, though my time in the " GW trenches" isn't quite as long as yours ( 12-13 years for me), you've summed up my feelings very well...
With the exception of a few second hand purchases I've completely phased out buying any GW products...and am also looking at other " rides at the fair".
As to the OP's poll...1-2/10...

I don't play their games anymore. I don't see any moves on their part to get me to return. I gave a generous 3/10

3/10

I haven't been involved with wargaming for nearly as long as many of the posters on here (~6 years maybe?) But even I have noticed the change. Less and less content on their website, less creativity in general, more pushing of sales. Then the Summer of Our Discontent happened, and I quit buying from GW. Now, their business practices have driven me away, and the prices are keeping me away. I would love to buy and paint up a stonehorn, but I can't afford to buy a model like that just for giggles.

infinite_array wrote:5/10.

Love the universe, hate the company and games that control it.

This.

8/10. They have everything I need.

I think I said 4/10.

I used to love the universes. 40k and Fantasy, then they started to make some strange changes to the rule systems and army structure. I find Fantasy so boring to play, and the stupid structuring with percentages ruins game play and rewards Power Gaming.

The fact that specialist games are sold as an after thought is upsetting too.

The changes with the current trend of 40k codexes has made the game less enjoyable. To the point I haven't played since May. I fear with some of the rumours for 6th ed that will be the end of my adventures with GW.

Well maybe not if LotR SBG gets a boost from The Hobbit. That might hold me.

I'd like to note something my wife, whose background is in customer service management pointed out to me.

In the customer service world anything less than a 4 out of 5 (or 8 out of ten in this case) is considered a fail on any of the satisfaction surveys customers filled out/answered over the phone. If your customers aren't w lking away with a warm fuzzy feeling you did something wrong.

By extension I think its pretty clear GWS is doing something wrong, especially since this is our HOBBY, its what we do for fun. I don't see how a company responsible for stuff we do for fun can find a 6/10 average rating acceptable, when a credit card company would be firing people over that.

Do I think they're totally frelled? No. But I think this is a clear sign that they could be doing a much, much better job of making thier customers happy. A sign that there is a lot of room for improvement, but here's the agravating part- they refuse to acknowledge this. They are the "biggest and the best and the product is clearly the best", at least in thier own minds, so postive change fails to materialize.

Sigh...that the really agravating part.

7/10.

Don't hate the company, but prices on this side of the pond are definitly ludicrous. I still enjoy the games, still enjoy reading the fluff, and they still make the only minitures range that interests me.

I avoid their stores, since it's more irritating than interesting going in. Even the good staff are turning into used car salesmen. Though I do endure it for the odd finecast purchase.

So yeah, basically I dislike the new staff behaviour and the pricing is ridiculous, but that's all I can really put against it. 7/10 seems fair.

8/10 only complaints bad store placement and finecast oh amlost forgot PRICES they are outrages

8/10

the models, the universe, all of it so just awesome

I took down 2 points for

1:prices...30 dollars for 10 boyz....Really!?!?
2:Need to get to work and update all of the codexs up to 5th edition...than move on to 6th.....

Jwalker52 wrote:8/10 only complaints bad store placement and finecast oh amlost forgot PRICES they are outrages

which is why their customer base is shrinking

7/10

They create massive, in depth, fascinating universes. I love the stories, characters, and setting of both WHFB and 40k to death. I have wasted countless hours reading old codexes and pages on Lexicanum.

I'd say the majority of the models they make are excellent.

That's the good and the value of the good greatly outweighs the bad even if there appears to be more of the latter.

Their rules are unbalanced gak. Army books and codexes should be updated within 6 months of a new edition and certainly prior to 'Ard Boyz.
They take far too long to release models for everything, forcing you to buy 3rd party, buy FW (effing Nob Bikers and Rhinox Riders) or convert your own. Converting is great and all, but not everyone has GD skills. I preferred my converted Stormravens and Rhinox Riders to the GW/FW ones, but things like bikers are just too much of a PITA to convert.

They leave too much stuff underdeveloped and really need to at least triple the amount of army lists/armies for each system.

Where are the Araby, Nippon, Chaos Dwarfs, Northmen (Norsemen, w/e you want to call them), Cathay armies?

Where is the Adeptus Mechanicus codex?

Why can't I field a pure Stormtrooper army? Or Orks in Warcoptas? Why can't all Terminators use Drop Pods? Why do the Deep Striking rules suck ass unless you're Blood Angels, in a Drop Pod, or an IG Stormtrooper? Why do snipers suck (other than the Vindicare)?


There is so much untapped potential that it is overwhelmingly frustrating.

CorvidMP wrote:
By extension I think its pretty clear GWS is doing something wrong, especially since this is our HOBBY, its what we do for fun. I don't see how a company responsible for stuff we do for fun can find a 6/10 average rating acceptable, when a credit card company would be firing people over that.

I question why people who would list their satisfaction as such frequent a web forum entirely about a game that they hate.

4/10

meh

Well er I have a whole list load!!!!
They are;
Over priced
Kick you out if the shop if you have done nothing wrong (Yes happened to me ;0)
Rarely let you pitch up and play a game freely
Wont let you play if you have a large amount of none gw bits in your army
Will threaten to kick you out or say something is "apparently illegal" (Like saying you have cast something to save you money instead of you having to buy 10 of them)
Did I mention they are over priced?
I could go on...

HAZZER

DarknessEternal wrote:

CorvidMP wrote:
By extension I think its pretty clear GWS is doing something wrong, especially since this is our HOBBY, its what we do for fun. I don't see how a company responsible for stuff we do for fun can find a 6/10 average rating acceptable, when a credit card company would be firing people over that.

I question why people who would list their satisfaction as such frequent a web forum entirely about a game that they hate.

It's not hate I'm talking about, it's the people rating GW a 5 or 6. Mildly irked customers are more the order of the day, and they can be a problem for a business even more so than the hate filled net trolls, because they can be very fickle customers- more likely to spend their time or money elsewhere, and I don't mean stomping off and forswearing the company forever after, just redirecting their money/attention elsewhere for a bit (be it other mini companies, video games, basket weaving- whatever).

The point of my post is that by the metric other companies use to determine customer satisfaction they aren't doing so hot, which isn't good long term, and I want them to succeed long term trust me- I have several grand invested in their products that I would like to be able to continue to enjoy over the years.

DarknessEternal wrote:I question why people who would list their satisfaction as such frequent a web forum entirely about a game that they hate.

Because hating GW and hating the game are not the same thing.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:I question why people who would list their satisfaction as such frequent a web forum entirely about a game that they hate.

Because hating GW and hating the game are not the same thing.

Well said LOL!Because you can still like the game and buy the modles cheeper online but hate gw for pricing them at such rediclous prices!So you have to but them online or will waste money!!!

HAZZER

My Score: 7/10

Pros
+6 for great universe and overall fluff
+6 for plastic model quality
+2 for customer service. Had to call twice, very helpful and accomodating both times
+1 for placing some tutorials on their website

Total +15

Cons
-3 for price and price hikes. I can still afford it thanks to online discounters.
-2 for lack of finecast quality control
-2 for speed that we see updated codices/models for those armies still lost in past editions
-1 for vagueness in some of the rules

Total -8

Final Score - 7/10

I like their Universe and the Black Library.

I like the concepts of a "free" universe put forward in Apoc, but they do little to spread this idea to their core systemes. They are still overly hung-up on "Officialdom".

I like their support of FW to expand the Universe in ways and places that GW will not go.

I miss the Black Gobbo and White Dwarf as an actual resource for the hobby as opposed to an ad.

I like that they provide everything a hobbyist could need such as terrain, models, paints, etc. However, their attitude towards it is a bit disappointing and close minded.

I love their Specialist Games, and am sad that they let them go to waste.

Plastic Models and Kits are great, but the price has put them in a place where I no longer find value in them.

The constant edition changes is tiresome to me. Let's get some core rules and design philosophy and stick with it please.

Overall a 5/10. I wish them no ill, but I won't do much to support them either. The great thing is, they could win my loyalty and more importantly $$$ back with a bit of effort and a strategy.

6/10. Enjoy the origins and history but strongly dislike the game mechanics from 3rd Ed onward (one size fits all, move as many models on and off the table in the shortest time possible). As a veteran player I feel abandoned by the company and game because I do not meet the target demographic. I understand the purpose of business is to turn a profit but I am not happy with the methods they employ to accomplish this.

But 6 out of 10 is still pretty good. The miniatures are amazing, the community is awesome, and there's always hope for 6th Ed. And 7th. And 10th. I'm not going anywhere.

I honestly don't get all the despise for Finecast. Aside from the price hike (which I suppose is reason enough to dislike it), I don't think the models are of less quality as the pewter ones are/were. In my mind, being they are lighter, they are easier to transport, and being made of less dense material, are not as fragile, considering the amount of pieces some of these models are built with. Granted I don't own a lot of Finecast models (2, to be exact) but I do foresee myself buying a few more in the future, especially if they release models for IC's that I really enjoy playing.

Back on topic, I voted 7/10. The GW store in NY isn't bad, and while their prices are obviously subject to what their company sets them at, the atmosphere is very pleasant. The staff are generally helpful with ideas of painting and modeling, and are all around friendly people. My only gripe with it is that it's a lot smaller than I'd imagine a place for tabletop gaming should be. In my mind, with the amount of income GW generates, this store can and should be in a place at least 3 times the size they're currently occupying.

HAZZER wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:I question why people who would list their satisfaction as such frequent a web forum entirely about a game that they hate.

Because hating GW and hating the game are not the same thing.

Well said LOL!Because you can still like the game and buy the modles cheeper online but hate gw for pricing them at such rediclous prices!So you have to but them online or will waste money!!!

HAZZER

That's the thing. Due to the secondary market GW takes the resale price into consideration when setting a price. This is a similar practice to many industries. Take books for example. So even if you are buying in the resale market technically you are still supporting GW... But who wouldn't? It's a great company.

I don't like how people rant on GW's 8th edition rules. They are balancing the game and making it fairer.

10/10
Best store. Ever. Great stores, Great rules, Great Models, Great Staff, Great Customer Service, Great Business Tatics.

And that's a comment I thought I would never read from an Aussie

Ye gods, if you had seen them 10 years ago by that reckoning your head will have exploded!

Ultramarinescout wrote:10/10
Best store. Ever. Great stores, Great rules, Great Models, Great Staff, Great Customer Service, Great Business Tatics.

Wait... don't you work for GW? I thought I saw you mention that your work for them, or did at one point.

@ mattyrm (because I don't want to post again so soon)

You mean his enthusiasm for GW products.

Ultramarinescout wrote:10/10
Best store. Ever. Great stores, Great rules, Great Models, Great Staff, Great Customer Service, Great Business Tatics.

I admire his enthusiasm for the hobby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mattyrm wrote:

Ultramarinescout wrote:10/10
Best store. Ever. Great stores, Great rules, Great Models, Great Staff, Great Customer Service, Great Business Tatics.

I admire his enthusiasm for the hobby.

EDIT - Jervis Johnson had me in a headlock and managed to type that last sentence. Ive slapped him about now though don't worry.

1/10 for being a giant douche bag in general.

It really doesn't matter how much someone on here says they (dis)like GW. They still hand them their wallet.

Worglock wrote:It really doesn't matter how much someone on here says they (dis)like GW. They still hand them their wallet.

Some people do. Some people do not. I spend $25 per month at my local GW store compared to 2 years ago in which I spent 3 to 5 hundred per month. The corporation got me really angry, especially the one store concepts here in the US to give Kirby is damn dividend. Oh and now there are no red shirts in my region now. Everyone is in a black shirt and are known as "Hobby Specialists".

When asked about the decrease in spending I go with the following.
No longer am I able to buy bits from your store.
No longer am I able to custom built terrain due to GW Edict on using Realm of battle boards/their terrain.
No longer is there a painting academy where you can actually learn things on how to paint and get something neat in return.
No longer am I able to have a decent game due to the rug rats overrunning the store as they snub the vets whom many were buying product until all of the recent changes.

I only pay $25 per month (on the average) so I can try, yes try to get a game in every once in a while with some of my friends.

Local Friendly game stores in my area were wiped out once GW moved on in. Only game store in a 20 mile radius.

My anger is on the Corporation and its most recent policies which is harming the game. I vote with my wallet and if they do not want my money then someone else will.

In a very nice way I told the regional manager that the Benjamins are always in my pocket just waiting for something good to come my way.

I am still waiting.

Worglock wrote:It really doesn't matter how much someone on here says they (dis)like GW. They still hand them their wallet.

You know, I'm curious - exactly how, Worglock, do you know our spending habits?

I believe a couple of calls are in order.

And you're wrong, by the way. I can't speak for others, but I can attest that I haven't given GW a single cent for almost half a year now, and going strong. My Marine's are sitting up in the attic, waiting for the Christmas break so I can put them on eBay. I'll be keeping 5 Black Templar Sword Brethren (which I got from a friend, for free. Ha!) just to paint. And to show future generations that, yes, GW once made metal models.

My Flames of War and Battletech miniatures, on the other hand, are well on their way to being painted. Certainly more so than my GW figures ever were.

Worglock wrote:It really doesn't matter how much someone on here says they (dis)like GW. They still hand them their wallet.

Privateer Press has my wallet. GW has my lunch money.

GW is perfectly happy with my lunch money because so many other
people give them their wallet.

Worglock wrote:It really doesn't matter how much someone on here says they (dis)like GW. They still hand them their wallet.

Nope, sorry to disapoint you but the only things that I bought from GW in the past 5+ years have been painting supplies (yes, I know that their brushes are overpriced pieces of crap, but for some reason I can't get the same results with brushes from other brands and I love their washes).

PP is currently in charge of my wallet while BF, Infinity and Malifaux sometimes take it to go to the mall!

Worglock wrote:It really doesn't matter how much someone on here says they (dis)like GW. They still hand them their wallet.

Shame the financial statements say otherwise

7/10

Points off for the ridiculous pricing (2) , and the WD becoming a catalogue rather than a hobby-based magazine.

I went 6/10. After 22 years of being a fan I still love GW's concepts and the universe they created, I will always be a 40k fan.

But.... The heart and soul of what made GW great has been dead for many years now, I cant ever see a time when the games they create will again feel like they belong to the customer.

My vote would be for 4 or 5 ish out of 10. You know, it is amazing that after all these years, GW still haven't completely managed to alienate me from their games, despite their apparent disdain for veteran gamers. That being said, I haven't bought anything from GW in nigh on 2 years - other companies like PP, Mantic and Brushfire get my money now and will continue to do so. As already pointed out earlier, a dislike of GW does not equate to a dislike of the games; it is just incredibly frustrating as a fairly loyal patron over the years, to witness some of the more baffling decisions they have taken.

I really wouldnt be too happy if i was GW management seeing this poll. I mean, 9 and 10 are the mallest fraction, and 95% of the poters have many negative statements to poste. Either its just (for some weird reason) that dakka hates gw, or, more likely, GW doing something seriously wrong.

If this poll has 500 or so votes someone should send it to them .

MrMerlin wrote:I really wouldnt be too happy if i was GW management seeing this poll. I mean, 9 and 10 are the mallest fraction, and 95% of the poters have many negative statements to poste. Either its just (for some weird reason) that dakka hates gw, or, more likely, GW doing something seriously wrong.

If this poll has 500 or so votes someone should send it to them .

It doesn't mater. GWs business model doesn't care about customer retention wich means that they don't care about the opinion of anyone in this forum.

I make the current average 5.57.

MrMerlin wrote:I really wouldnt be too happy if i was GW management seeing this poll.

The majority is 6/10 or higher. They would be pleased.

DarknessEternal wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:I really wouldnt be too happy if i was GW management seeing this poll.

The majority is 6/10 or higher. They would be pleased.

Both of you have just provided a lovely example of the nature of subjectivity

Pacific wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:I really wouldnt be too happy if i was GW management seeing this poll.

The majority is 6/10 or higher. They would be pleased.

Both of you have just provided a lovely example of the nature of subjectivity

Or the nature of fanboyism, take your pick.

MrMerlin wrote:I've been wondering how the average dakka user feels about them

How do you feel about them?

pretty much somewhere between 1-3 out of 10. As a company. Havent spent money on them in ages. As I tell all my friends, GW has moved on from us older folks so I moved on from them.

I think it's healthier to be a fanboy than a hater.

Of course, if you can avoid being either...

Rurouni Benshin wrote:I honestly don't get all the despise for Finecast. Aside from the price hike (which I suppose is reason enough to dislike it), I don't think the models are of less quality as the pewter ones are/were.

Sure they are. They've so far have a greater miscast rate then metal or plastic ever did. GW is selling stuff to FIX the miscasts that are minor. How on earth are you saying they are less quailty then pewter?

Finecast for me was the final straw. Not paying more for less.

I don't consider myself a fanboy or a hater. They do not make my favorite wargame, and they're far from the worst company EVAR. I don't get totally emotionally invested in The Hobby.

I would rate GW as a whole - including their corporate behavior, games, background, and miniatures - at about a 4/10. They produce a pretty decent product (miniatures) but a pretty poor ruleset (5th ed, 8th ed, and some of the recent codex/army book releases). Their products are expensive for what you receive, but there are a few standout examples. They have also done a lot to expand the hobby, and you can go to any city in the U.S. and find people who play 40k. The 40k and fantasy settings are two-dimensional and hackneyed, but they're also lots of fun.

So overall, I'd rate them at about a 4/10. Below average for wargaming companies, but well above the worst offenders (Clix and D&D miniatures).

carmachu wrote:

Sure they are. They've so far have a greater miscast rate then metal or plastic ever did. GW is selling stuff to FIX the miscasts that are minor. How on earth are you saying they are less quailty then pewter?

Finecast for me was the final straw. Not paying more for less.

As far as I've seen, I don't know where the miscasts are coming from, as far as what the Finecast models show. Granted I don't own a lot of models compared to say, a "Veteran Gamer/Collector", but from what I can tell (as far as the models I've purchased), they are not inferior to their pewter counterparts.

Perhaps if you sited or quoted something that can shed a bit more light, I'd at least be willing to see where your opinions are coming from.

If you think about it, there is one aspect of wargaming where GW rules, and that is the quantity of players. They may have their (numerous) flaws, but it would be hard to find an equally omni-present game system. Right now I can only think of one other popular sytem, Warmachine.
So even if the systems might not be perfect (well i think theyre ok) youll at leat find someone to play against.

MrMerlin wrote:If you think about it, there is one aspect of wargaming where GW rules, and that is the quantity of players. They may have their (numerous) flaws, but it would be hard to find an equally omni-present game system. Right now I can only think of one other popular sytem, Warmachine.
So even if the systems might not be perfect (well i think theyre ok) youll at leat find someone to play against.

I'd even argue that. If you were to say 'GW has the most obvious presence' in wargaming, then I'd agree - they certainly are the face of wargaming at the moment.

But I'd argue that historical gamers - say, Napoleonics players that use 25-28mm figures - have more players than GW, but are just much less obvious about it.

7/10 i said this because, -2 for the prices -1 for the strict rules in many of the shops i have been in, say, no drinks, no food, no sitting, no 'off topic' convosation off warhammer

infinite_array wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:If you think about it, there is one aspect of wargaming where GW rules, and that is the quantity of players. They may have their (numerous) flaws, but it would be hard to find an equally omni-present game system. Right now I can only think of one other popular sytem, Warmachine.
So even if the systems might not be perfect (well i think theyre ok) youll at leat find someone to play against.

I'd even argue that. If you were to say 'GW has the most obvious presence' in wargaming, then I'd agree - they certainly are the face of wargaming at the moment.

But I'd argue that historical gamers - say, Napoleonics players that use 25-28mm figures - have more players than GW, but are just much less obvious about it.

I'd have to go with Mr. Merlin on this one. 40k has a ubiquity that is unparalelled.
In historical gaming, you have to choose between a multitude of scales (mostly 25,15,10,6 and 3 mm) many eras, and many, many rulesets. It's far more difficult to find a Historical game that matches your era, scale and and favored rules than it is to find a 40k game.
I highly doubt there are anywhere near the nubmer of napoleonic players, as GW players. Hwever even if the numbers were equal, it is inconceivable to me tha there is a Napoleonic ruleset and scale combination that has more players than 40k.

40k (in the USA anyway) is probably the easiest game in the country to find an opponent for. Between the high number of players, massive infrastrueture (clubs, GW shops, FLGS's, online communities, etc.) 40k is the top wargaming choice for someone for whom finding an opponent is the highest priority.

Despite the fact that I no longer buy new GW product or play 40k, I'll never sell my two 40k armies, largely because of this fact. If my gaming club (we play indie games) falls apart or I have to move, I'll always be able to find a game of 40k.

6/10

I have a love-hate relationship with GW at the mo, love the background, 40K has pretty much no equal in the Sci-fi background department. The rules do the job for a two hour wargame, and the models in general are well designed and fun to paint, use. Getting better all the time in fact.

However, I hate the Corporate side of the company, the treatment of worldwide customers, prices rocketing out of control onto a spiral that is going to lead them into the toilet if they aren't careful. My guess is they are getting extremely close to the tipping point for new kids joining the hobby. £20.50 for a single Ogre character, really? Most adults I know with young kids already think GW is way too expensive.

Plus the ubsurd 'news blackout' thing they have going on, which goes against pretty much all fundimental buiness practises when dealing with a hobby based customer base, especially a niche one where word or mouth and excitement for new lines drives new blood into the hobby.

Also just to top off, the death of Specalist games, another entry way it seems going on many threads over the years, for a lot of folks into this so called GW hobby, and yeah, starting to think Kirby is milking the company for all its worth at the moment.

Eilif wrote:
I highly doubt there are anywhere near the nubmer of napoleonic players, as GW players. Hwever even if the numbers were equal, it is inconceivable to me tha there is a Napoleonic ruleset and scale combination that has more players than 40k.

40k (in the USA anyway) is probably the easiest game in the country to find an opponent for. Between the high number of players, massive infrastrueture (clubs, GW shops, FLGS's, online communities, etc.) 40k is the top wargaming choice for someone for whom finding an opponent is the highest priority.

Despite the fact that I no longer buy new GW product or play 40k, I'll never sell my two 40k armies, largely because of this fact. If my gaming club (we play indie games) falls apart or I have to move, I'll always be able to find a game of 40k.

You know, thinking about it, I have to concede the point to you and Merlin.

8/10

I buy for the models alone so I have no reason to deduct from bad rules of the game system itself.

If I were to take some points away, it would be for the bad management and the way WD has collapsed into a pricey catalogue.

Apart from that GW is doing everything pretty well in my eyes, all they need to do is take a deep breath, stop playing around and then they will get a 10/10 from me.

Rurouni Benshin wrote:
As far as I've seen, I don't know where the miscasts are coming from, as far as what the Finecast models show. Granted I don't own a lot of models compared to say, a "Veteran Gamer/Collector", but from what I can tell (as far as the models I've purchased), they are not inferior to their pewter counterparts.

Perhaps if you sited or quoted something that can shed a bit more light, I'd at least be willing to see where your opinions are coming from.

Then you havent been paying attention. There are various threads around showing all the flaws from minor to send the stuff back to GW. In greater rates then metal ever had.

They look great IF you get one without flaws. But not really much more superior to metal once the primer comes on.

So to quote a site....try looking around here for all the discussions, including the primer comparison. Otherwise.....you sound more like trolling.

8/10
+Story
+Units
+Game

-Matt Ward
-Pricing
-Fine"oops it dropped"cast

carmachu wrote:
Then you havent been paying attention. There are various threads around showing all the flaws from minor to send the stuff back to GW. In greater rates then metal ever had.

They look great IF you get one without flaws. But not really much more superior to metal once the primer comes on.

So to quote a site....try looking around here for all the discussions, including the primer comparison. Otherwise.....you sound more like trolling.

Admittedly, I haven't read many discussions on Finecast, mostly due to the fact that I've collected the majority of my models before they were released and didn't find myself in need of anything. However, that said, I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones to have gotten good models then. Or, maybe I'm just easier to please than others. Aesthetically speaking, I can see how they're on par with metal mini's, but I was also gauging them from a different point of view, in that their weight makes a difference as well. Granted, it is in all likelihood a minor difference, but a difference nonetheless.

But back on topic for a second, I also strongly agree with what Eilif had said about the player base for 40K being so high in number. Many of my friends go through phases where they play WHFB, WM, and other tabletop games (recently, Malifaux has become quite popular). But in the end, I know that they'll be around for 40K at the end of the day.

carmachu wrote:

Rurouni Benshin wrote:
As far as I've seen, I don't know where the miscasts are coming from, as far as what the Finecast models show. Granted I don't own a lot of models compared to say, a "Veteran Gamer/Collector", but from what I can tell (as far as the models I've purchased), they are not inferior to their pewter counterparts.

Perhaps if you sited or quoted something that can shed a bit more light, I'd at least be willing to see where your opinions are coming from.

Then you havent been paying attention. There are various threads around showing all the flaws from minor to send the stuff back to GW. In greater rates then metal ever had.

They look great IF you get one without flaws. But not really much more superior to metal once the primer comes on.

So to quote a site....try looking around here for all the discussions, including the primer comparison. Otherwise.....you sound more like trolling.

To be fair, you are the one that is coming of as aggresive. The chap has an opinion that differs from yours that's all.

That said I am willing to back Rurouni Benshin on this one. Finecast are better gaming models than metal in almost all respects.

The now somewhat dated threads that you refer to did not paint this resin in the best of lights for obvious reasons but I would suggest that the teething problems are now behind them and the productions where it should have been from the start.

I have bought two very nice models in this medium (some 3+ months ago now) and on mooching around a biggish retailer in London this week and discussing it with the owner he confirmed that the first 2 batches received were a joke but sinvce then they are on the money.

Obviously the danger is that your FLGS hasn't checked their inventory and still has the duff batches on the shelves.

I rated them as a 8/10. I think they have done a fine job for years. Their products are never anything but good, the writers are great, and the product that they have created between the two has lasted longer than any other gaming product outside of Dungeons & Dragons, and even they had a part in the back in the day!

But they are expensive, and always have been expensive, hence the reason I waited so long to get into Warhammer. But, that goes with the territory of a hobby, many of them are expensive and people who constantly complain about it should find another hobby.

Are they perfect? Far from it, but for a gaming company to stay as true to their products as they have without selling out is commendable in and of itself.

Having a large player base, is NOT the same as having a large customer base.
If people dont buy new GW minatures , its not putting money in GW coffers.
And concidering the large amount of GW stuff available on Ebay etc, and much better VFM minatures availbale from other manufacturers.

GW plc short sighted focus on '...selling toy soldiers to children... ' is simply not working.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
but for a gaming company to stay as true to their products as they have without selling out is commendable in and of itself.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

without selling out? GW is the definition of selling out. Go check the dictionary, there is an actual picture of Kirby next to the "Selling Out" entry!

notprop wrote:

To be fair, you are the one that is coming of as aggresive. The chap has an opinion that differs from yours that's all.

That said I am willing to back Rurouni Benshin on this one. Finecast are better gaming models than metal in almost all respects.

The now somewhat dated threads that you refer to did not paint this resin in the best of lights for obvious reasons but I would suggest that the teething problems are now behind them and the productions where it should have been from the start.

I have bought two very nice models in this medium (some 3+ months ago now) and on mooching around a biggish retailer in London this week and discussing it with the owner he confirmed that the first 2 batches received were a joke but sinvce then they are on the money.

Obviously the danger is that your FLGS hasn't checked their inventory and still has the duff batches on the shelves.

Well, there is an element of truth to this, however there are the worrying blog reports coming out that show Finecast issues with new models; that is to say, not old metal models that have been retooled for Finecast but brand-new models released in Finecast. One bloggist wrote quite a detailed review of issues with a new ogre Firebelly - that is an all new model and shouldn't have any issues at all. I can't find the link at the moment (I remember reading the blog in question after it was linked in a thread here on Dakka).


Edit: Here is the link:

http://davetaylorminiatures.blogspot.com/2011/09/might-makes-right-ironblaster-and.html

It's not all doom and gloom by any means but it is still somewhat worrying that issues are still occurring and QA/QC is still not up to speed.

Rurouni Benshin wrote:
Admittedly, I haven't read many discussions on Finecast, mostly due to the fact that I've collected the majority of my models before they were released and didn't find myself in need of anything. However, that said, I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones to have gotten good models then. Or, maybe I'm just easier to please than others. Aesthetically speaking, I can see how they're on par with metal mini's, but I was also gauging them from a different point of view, in that their weight makes a difference as well. Granted, it is in all likelihood a minor difference, but a difference nonetheless.

Weight does make a difference, unfortunately I'm the opposite way- metal has weight, hence value. Fine cast is so light that I dont see the value.

But running with your thought- if their on par with metal(barring miscasts) I dont see them being worth MORE in what their asking for the same model, but lower quality material(see the threads on what kind of resin they use. It is NOT a high quality kind).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

notprop wrote:

To be fair, you are the one that is coming of as aggresive. The chap has an opinion that differs from yours that's all.

No, he's coming off a bit ignorant on the subject. Many threads have been on the subject, yet he's never seen them here.

That said I am willing to back Rurouni Benshin on this one. Finecast are better gaming models than metal in almost all respects.

Not really at all. But thats been done to death already.

The now somewhat dated threads that you refer to did not paint this resin in the best of lights for obvious reasons but I would suggest that the teething problems are now behind them and the productions where it should have been from the start.

didnt paint them in the best light for obvious reasons? WOuld those reasons be that they relesased a bunch crap that they rushed out the door or didnt care about qualithy control? It still doesnt change the fact that thir using a crap material type resin, in comparison to other manufacturers big and small, even forgeworld.

A well round retort I'm sure.

You can't be very happy with the miniatures that GW forced you to buy and hold on to after you complained about them carmachu?

GW made a hash of the release and are taking steps to put it right with variable results (tips hat to filbert).

I can only compare it to other resins that I have bought recently and it looks good, went together well and doesn't smell like sin (i'm looking at you Battlefront! ).

6/10

PRO:
-Nice story
-Nice model designs
-Stable company

CONS:
-Price
-Rules takes too much time to update
-Distribution of minis
-Brainwashed fanboys

carmachu wrote:Weight does make a difference, unfortunately I'm the opposite way- metal has weight, hence value. Fine cast is so light that I dont see the value.

But running with your thought- if their on par with metal(barring miscasts) I dont see them being worth MORE in what their asking for the same model, but lower quality material(see the threads on what kind of resin they use. It is NOT a high quality kind).

Well, since you're able to see the differences in our opinions concerning weight (and have acknowledged that mine is a valid, albeit just a different point), wouldn't it be possible that GW shares my opinion on "the lighter the model, the more valuable" concept?

Please understand I'm not trying to pick an argument with you, but rather just trying to be openminded about the topic. You accused me of supposedly trolling, when my opinions are in fact valid. As notprop pointed out, we just don't agree. So can't we just agree to disagree?

As for my opinion on why the Finecast models are more expensive, I can only estimate that it's caused by inflation. Without researching further on how pewter and resin models are created, I can't give anymore of a definitive answer than that. But if there's a discussion on Dakka talking about it, I'm sure you'll let me know, right?

Rurouni Benshin wrote:

carmachu wrote:Weight does make a difference, unfortunately I'm the opposite way- metal has weight, hence value. Fine cast is so light that I dont see the value.

But running with your thought- if their on par with metal(barring miscasts) I dont see them being worth MORE in what their asking for the same model, but lower quality material(see the threads on what kind of resin they use. It is NOT a high quality kind).

Well, since you're able to see the differences in our opinions concerning weight (and have acknowledged that mine is a valid, albeit just a different point), wouldn't it be possible that GW shares my opinion on "the lighter the model, the more valuable" concept?

Please understand I'm not trying to pick an argument with you, but rather just trying to be openminded about the topic. You accused me of supposedly trolling, when my opinions are in fact valid. As notprop pointed out, we just don't agree. So can't we just agree to disagree?

As for my opinion on why the Finecast models are more expensive, I can only estimate that it's caused by inflation. Without researching further on how pewter and resin models are created, I can't give anymore of a definitive answer than that. But if there's a discussion on Dakka talking about it, I'm sure you'll let me know, right?

Your opinion is only valid regarding the weight issue wich is subjective.

Every other of your points you've admited to being ignorant about, be it the proven lack of quality control of the GW failcast minis (but this point has improven noticeably in the latest batches, even if I think that for the price you pay for the failcast minis, any failure due to poor QA is unacceptable!), the proven lack of quality of the GW failcast resin (it is more prone to warping by heat than even FW resin for instance), or even that the casting process for failcast is exponentially cheaper than for metal minis due to the current insane prices of metals in general and tin in particular.

Not only that, but even now you refuse to do the simple research needed to educate yourself on these issues and do that half joking reply, so I'm sorry to say that you do come of a bit trolish even if a good intentioned one.

PhantomViper wrote:
Your opinion is only valid regarding the weight issue wich is subjective.

Every other of your points you've admited to being ignorant about, be it the proven lack of quality control of the GW failcast minis (but this point has improven noticeably in the latest batches, even if I think that for the price you pay for the failcast minis, any failure due to poor QA is unacceptable!), the proven lack of quality of the GW failcast resin (it is more prone to warping by heat than even FW resin for instance), or even that the casting process for failcast is exponentially cheaper than for metal minis due to the current insane prices of metals in general and tin in particular.

Well, since you've so kindly point out these things, I will concede my point then. Cheers!

Rurouni Benshin wrote:
Well, since you're able to see the differences in our opinions concerning weight (and have acknowledged that mine is a valid, albeit just a different point), wouldn't it be possible that GW shares my opinion on "the lighter the model, the more valuable" concept?

F no. GW is charging higher money for a product that costs them less. "Value" has nothing to do with the concept lighter model more value. Less cost, more profit. Thats about it.

Please understand I'm not trying to pick an argument with you, but rather just trying to be openminded about the topic. You accused me of supposedly trolling, when my opinions are in fact valid. As notprop pointed out, we just don't agree. So can't we just agree to disagree?

That you like finecast and I dont, isnt the issue. The ignorant comment is this: HOW long have you been on dakka, and NOT see one of the many many many finecats threads, and you have the gall to ask for links on the bad side of finecast? Thats your ignorance. Not whether you like it or find value in it.

As for my opinion on why the Finecast models are more expensive, I can only estimate that it's caused by inflation. Without researching further on how pewter and resin models are created, I can't give anymore of a definitive answer than that. But if there's a discussion on Dakka talking about it, I'm sure you'll let me know, right?

If your estimating inflation, I'm going to use the "I" word again. Because your not even remotely in the ball part. I stand my my comment earlier on your opinion of finecast. Glad you like it, but you dont seem to have any facts on it.

I rated 7/10 because of their sometimes ridiculous rules, prices and business management. But I do like their gams and beautiful models. Fluff is sometimes really good too.

The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:I rated 7/10 because of their sometimes ridiculous rules, prices and business management. But I do like their gams and beautiful models. Fluff is sometimes really good too.

PhantomViper wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
but for a gaming company to stay as true to their products as they have without selling out is commendable in and of itself.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

without selling out? GW is the definition of selling out. Go check the dictionary, there is an actual picture of Kirby next to the "Selling Out" entry!

Ever look at the state of Dungeons & Dragons lately? They are now the WoW of the role-playing world. When TSR sold itself to Wizards of the Coast, who in turn were sold to Hasbro, that was a sell out. Who owns Games Workshop? That's right, Games Workshop does.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Ever look at the state of Dungeons & Dragons lately? They are now the WoW of the role-playing world. When TSR sold itself to Wizards of the Coast, who in turn were sold to Hasbro, that was a sell out. Who owns Games Workshop? That's right, Games Workshop does.

GW could be said to have 'sold out' when it went into the hands of shareholding companies and is now bound to their whims to squeeze every penny. GW owns GW, what does that mean exactly when so many shares are in the hands of other companies who have no interest in the hobby, only wringing out profit.

TSR were sold to Wizards because they were facing bankruptcy with millions of dollars of debt. They didn't have much option other than to 'sell out', the company was finished.

Everything that's ever made money sold out before you heard of it.

I have no issues with GW.

DarknessEternal wrote:Everything that's ever made money sold out before you heard of it.

Except with GW

Those of us who have following the company for a long time will know there has been a marked change in the way that it has behaved since it went public, a lot of it not for the better.

Brother_SRM said it well.

I live in Aus - so I gave the Morons that make the pricing decisions/embargoes a -25/10.

5th Ed 40K - 8/10
Failcast($) - 1/10
WhiteDwarf Mag/Toiletpaper - 1/10
Staffcuts+Closing Stores = Increased Profits - 1/10
"Surprise Surprise Surprise" Release Mentality - 1/10

Let's put it another way - I will play 40K probably for the next 23 years - but will I spend $118 on a plastic Model that doesn't even FIT together properly again? No. I'll just reuse the 20 or so I have already....

infinite_array wrote:

Ultramarinescout wrote:10/10
Best store. Ever. Great stores, Great rules, Great Models, Great Staff, Great Customer Service, Great Business Tatics.

Wait... don't you work for GW? I thought I saw you mention that your work for them, or did at one point.

@ mattyrm (because I don't want to post again so soon)

You mean his enthusiasm for GW products.

I like other things.. like fantasy flight stuff...

I used to love GW. I have been in the hobby for 22 years now and have watched GW turn to crud. for this i gave 4/10
The worst thing they have done tho was taking away the old ctalogues. I used to love being able to buy bits without having to get the whole miniature....
They push up their prices far to high. Their latest excuse for this is the new 'finecast' range. Just like the price hike as Apocalypse was released. Funny that....a new game to play with massive armies....prices go up.

10 imperial guardsmen for £18!!!!Horde armies really suffer now, how is anyone suppose to build an Imperial guard/Ork/Tyranid army without taking out a bank loan? it is deplorable behaviour.
i may as well give up on them and collect Spacemarines like everyone else. seeing as i can build an army of them in half the time at less cost.
Did anyone manage to get a copy of Spacehulk btw? i did but paid £150 for it.. and no i had to buy it from GW. not some cold hearted b***** who bought 1000's of them to sell on ebay. I had to get it imported from the states. But i can say the miniatures in it are awesome and the game itself ...well its no surprise it won awards.

As for White Dwarf, we may as well rename it 'Lord of the Rings'. The amount of money this company makes now they could give it its own mag.
You never seem to see much in the way of 40k releases now.
They get rid of fun things like Necromunda, remember that?

But in fairness the company is providing hobby centres and such, but if we cant afford the miniatures to build armies then what is the point.
It is true that they produce some of the finest miniatures but if their casting process is anything like forgeworlds then it truly is a waste of time.
The new spacemarine game however is awesome... makes up for the less than standard movie they made. Also cant wait for Dark Millennium to be released.

Please tho, if someone from GW is reading this, because we no longer have the catalogues, get the ball rolling on some weapon sprues, extra equipment sprues, variant heads, bionics, bare arms for imp guard that arent mr universe sized, we want to personalise our miniatures, anything to stop forgeworld sucking away our finances too. reward the fanbase, the converters and the collectors. £37 for a drop troop squad is a little steep, even if they are resin.

I used to love GW, but as they have bled us dry over the years my enthusiasm waned.
i miss the good old days.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

akira5665 wrote:Brother_SRM said it well.

I live in Aus - so I gave the Morons that make the pricing decisions/embargoes a -25/10.

5th Ed 40K - 8/10
Failcast($) - 1/10
WhiteDwarf Mag/Toiletpaper - 1/10
Staffcuts+Closing Stores = Increased Profits - 1/10
"Surprise Surprise Surprise" Release Mentality - 1/10

Let's put it another way - I will play 40K probably for the next 23 years - but will I spend $118 on a plastic Model that doesn't even FIT together properly again? No. I'll just reuse the 20 or so I have already....

well said

Annihilator236 wrote: I used to love GW. I have been in the hobby for 22 years now and have watched GW turn to crud. for this i gave 4/10
The worst thing they have done tho was taking away the old ctalogues. I used to love being able to buy bits without having to get the whole miniature....
They push up their prices far to high. Their latest excuse for this is the new 'finecast' range. Just like the price hike as Apocalypse was released. Funny that....a new game to play with massive armies....prices go up.

10 imperial guardsmen for £18!!!!Horde armies really suffer now, how is anyone suppose to build an Imperial guard/Ork/Tyranid army without taking out a bank loan? it is deplorable behaviour.
i may as well give up on them and collect Spacemarines like everyone else. seeing as i can build an army of them in half the time at less cost.
Did anyone manage to get a copy of Spacehulk btw? i did but paid £150 for it.. and no i had to buy it from GW. not some cold hearted b***** who bought 1000's of them to sell on ebay. I had to get it imported from the states. But i can say the miniatures in it are awesome and the game itself ...well its no surprise it won awards.

As for White Dwarf, we may as well rename it 'Lord of the Rings'. The amount of money this company makes now they could give it its own mag.
You never seem to see much in the way of 40k releases now.
They get rid of fun things like Necromunda, remember that?

But in fairness the company is providing hobby centres and such, but if we cant afford the miniatures to build armies then what is the point.
It is true that they produce some of the finest miniatures but if their casting process is anything like forgeworlds then it truly is a waste of time.
The new spacemarine game however is awesome... makes up for the less than standard movie they made. Also cant wait for Dark Millennium to be released.

Please tho, if someone from GW is reading this, because we no longer have the catalogues, get the ball rolling on some weapon sprues, extra equipment sprues, variant heads, bionics, bare arms for imp guard that arent mr universe sized, we want to personalise our miniatures, anything to stop forgeworld sucking away our finances too. reward the fanbase, the converters and the collectors. £37 for a drop troop squad is a little steep, even if they are resin.

I used to love GW, but as they have bled us dry over the years my enthusiasm waned.
i miss the good old days.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

akira5665 wrote:Brother_SRM said it well.

I live in Aus - so I gave the Morons that make the pricing decisions/embargoes a -25/10.

5th Ed 40K - 8/10
Failcast($) - 1/10
WhiteDwarf Mag/Toiletpaper - 1/10
Staffcuts+Closing Stores = Increased Profits - 1/10
"Surprise Surprise Surprise" Release Mentality - 1/10

Let's put it another way - I will play 40K probably for the next 23 years - but will I spend $118 on a plastic Model that doesn't even FIT together properly again? No. I'll just reuse the 20 or so I have already....

well said

I think this is a very well written post, congrats. All you say makes sense, and I agree on everything. But I have to tell you, my eyes hurt when i read it, and that nearly made me stop in the middle. So maybe consider writing your posts in white, i think people would like that more.

Finecast was more miss than hit for me, but when I had an issue customer service replaced my faulty mini with a new one immediately, and I haven't had a problem since.

Price hikes suck, but that's life. Other gaming companies are getting more expensive, as well, though not quite as expensive as GW.

I feel that the fluff has been getting less grimdark and more mythic, lately, which I don't really like.

Their most recent licensed videogames (Dawn of War, Space Marine) were well made and tons of fun. Black Library novels are often decent, and occasionally very good.

I've been very impressed with a lot of their recent releases, 8th edition Fantasy, Dark Eldar (book and models), Storm of Magic, Ogres, etc. GW's released a lot of cool large kits in the last two years or so, the Stormraven, the Hellpit Abomination, the Mawloc, etc.

I did not like the most recent Tyranid codex; I'd planned on picking them up but abstained after buying up the book and giving it a thorough reading.

The embargo, while not affecting me, is a pretty big red mark on their record, in my opinion.

So, 7/10. If I lived down under, it'd be a lot lower.

Annihilator236 wrote: I used to love GW. I have been in the hobby for 22 years now and have watched GW turn to crud. for this i gave 4/10
The worst thing they have done tho was taking away the old ctalogues. I used to love being able to buy bits without having to get the whole miniature....
They push up their prices far to high. Their latest excuse for this is the new 'finecast' range. Just like the price hike as Apocalypse was released. Funny that....a new game to play with massive armies....prices go up.

10 imperial guardsmen for £18!!!!Horde armies really suffer now, how is anyone suppose to build an Imperial guard/Ork/Tyranid army without taking out a bank loan? it is deplorable behaviour.
i may as well give up on them and collect Spacemarines like everyone else. seeing as i can build an army of them in half the time at less cost.
Did anyone manage to get a copy of Spacehulk btw? i did but paid £150 for it.. and no i had to buy it from GW. not some cold hearted b***** who bought 1000's of them to sell on ebay. I had to get it imported from the states. But i can say the miniatures in it are awesome and the game itself ...well its no surprise it won awards.

As for White Dwarf, we may as well rename it 'Lord of the Rings'. The amount of money this company makes now they could give it its own mag.
You never seem to see much in the way of 40k releases now.
They get rid of fun things like Necromunda, remember that?

But in fairness the company is providing hobby centres and such, but if we cant afford the miniatures to build armies then what is the point.
It is true that they produce some of the finest miniatures but if their casting process is anything like forgeworlds then it truly is a waste of time.
The new spacemarine game however is awesome... makes up for the less than standard movie they made. Also cant wait for Dark Millennium to be released.

Please tho, if someone from GW is reading this, because we no longer have the catalogues, get the ball rolling on some weapon sprues, extra equipment sprues, variant heads, bionics, bare arms for imp guard that arent mr universe sized, we want to personalise our miniatures, anything to stop forgeworld sucking away our finances too. reward the fanbase, the converters and the collectors. £37 for a drop troop squad is a little steep, even if they are resin.

I used to love GW, but as they have bled us dry over the years my enthusiasm waned.
i miss the good old days.

'Squints', this would be so much easier to read if I was not colourblind...

10/10 Fanboi for lyfe! I love GW stuff, they always have new stuff when I'm ready to buy something and I always enjoy building, painting, and playing with my toy soldiers. If I got down below 10/10 for something that I choose to spend my extra time and leisure money on I would move on pretty quickly, it's just a game after all. I have my clicky finger ready for ordering Necrons, let's do this!

(yes, I'm totally serious)

Sorry about the red :S

Commander Cain wrote:

Annihilator236 wrote: I used to love GW. I have been in the hobby for 22 years now and have watched GW turn to crud. for this i gave 4/10
The worst thing they have done tho was taking away the old ctalogues. I used to love being able to buy bits without having to get the whole miniature....
They push up their prices far to high. Their latest excuse for this is the new 'finecast' range. Just like the price hike as Apocalypse was released. Funny that....a new game to play with massive armies....prices go up.

10 imperial guardsmen for £18!!!!Horde armies really suffer now, how is anyone suppose to build an Imperial guard/Ork/Tyranid army without taking out a bank loan? it is deplorable behaviour.
i may as well give up on them and collect Spacemarines like everyone else. seeing as i can build an army of them in half the time at less cost.
Did anyone manage to get a copy of Spacehulk btw? i did but paid £150 for it.. and no i had to buy it from GW. not some cold hearted b***** who bought 1000's of them to sell on ebay. I had to get it imported from the states. But i can say the miniatures in it are awesome and the game itself ...well its no surprise it won awards.

As for White Dwarf, we may as well rename it 'Lord of the Rings'. The amount of money this company makes now they could give it its own mag.
You never seem to see much in the way of 40k releases now.
They get rid of fun things like Necromunda, remember that?

But in fairness the company is providing hobby centres and such, but if we cant afford the miniatures to build armies then what is the point.
It is true that they produce some of the finest miniatures but if their casting process is anything like forgeworlds then it truly is a waste of time.
The new spacemarine game however is awesome... makes up for the less than standard movie they made. Also cant wait for Dark Millennium to be released.

Please tho, if someone from GW is reading this, because we no longer have the catalogues, get the ball rolling on some weapon sprues, extra equipment sprues, variant heads, bionics, bare arms for imp guard that arent mr universe sized, we want to personalise our miniatures, anything to stop forgeworld sucking away our finances too. reward the fanbase, the converters and the collectors. £37 for a drop troop squad is a little steep, even if they are resin.

I used to love GW, but as they have bled us dry over the years my enthusiasm waned.
i miss the good old days.

'Squints', this would be so much easier to read if I was not colourblind...

LOL and a very good point. I wasn’t even alive when GW started but from researching their business history my self it seems that greed has been the problem to success. If the whole dakka dakka group could start a pertsion to lower prices you know to get it back to the old days...Or something like that I think GW could earn some sort of respect. On the outside world people think that it is a waste of money which the only business is from nerds. This is because of their stores- now I do mean on offend the people that do work in the stores. But they are always pretty much
"Hi do you want to buy this or this or this or this ect."
Then I or you would go “wow (Not really meaning it by to stop them asking you questions) who did this army?"
They would then go "That was bob's (Protecting any identy what’s so ever!)"
We would then go and talk to that person "Well I did this in the name of the great chaos god of khorne wwwwaaaaaaahhhhh (3 year old noises)"
Or the imperium or (you get the point).
They we would have to pretend to like it like so “wow you’re so cool! (Jokes!)"

HAZZER

I voted 8 because ther minis are great as is most of ther products but i knocked a point off because of price and also a point because everytime i go in there store i feel like i cant just pick something up and have a look at it without them trying to sell it me.

mrwezmond wrote:I voted 8 because ther minis are great as is most of ther products but i knocked a point off because of price and also a point because everytime i go in there store i feel like i cant just pick something up and have a look at it without them trying to sell it me.

Sure they try to sell tuff to you, what do you expect from a guy working in a shop? Its what theyre getting paid for.

MrMerlin wrote:

mrwezmond wrote:I voted 8 because ther minis are great as is most of ther products but i knocked a point off because of price and also a point because everytime i go in there store i feel like i cant just pick something up and have a look at it without them trying to sell it me.

Sure they try to sell tuff to you, what do you expect from a guy working in a shop? Its what theyre getting paid for.

Back when GW had a presence in the Northeastern US, the GW salesmen wouldn't be pushy in the slightest.

Chowderhead wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:

mrwezmond wrote:I voted 8 because ther minis are great as is most of ther products but i knocked a point off because of price and also a point because everytime i go in there store i feel like i cant just pick something up and have a look at it without them trying to sell it me.

Sure they try to sell tuff to you, what do you expect from a guy working in a shop? Its what theyre getting paid for.

Back when GW had a presence in the Northeastern US, the GW salesmen wouldn't be pushy in the slightest.

well sadly theyre not today. But I just tell them i know what i want already and i only have the money for that to dispose, and they knock it off

Chowderhead wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:

mrwezmond wrote:I voted 8 because ther minis are great as is most of ther products but i knocked a point off because of price and also a point because everytime i go in there store i feel like i cant just pick something up and have a look at it without them trying to sell it me.

Sure they try to sell tuff to you, what do you expect from a guy working in a shop? Its what theyre getting paid for.

Back when GW had a presence in the Northeastern US, the GW salesmen wouldn't be pushy in the slightest.

Ye i can accept that they just doing there jobs but theres always one who is literally breathing down your neck soon as they see you pick something up. Even though you went in to buy something anyway, theres always something else you "need" just so they can meet there sales quotes.Like i said i still think their models are great quality and il still go and buy them they just shouldnt be so pushy. Any way iv found a way around it, i just send in my girlfriend with a list lol.

Chowderhead wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:

mrwezmond wrote:I voted 8 because ther minis are great as is most of ther products but i knocked a point off because of price and also a point because everytime i go in there store i feel like i cant just pick something up and have a look at it without them trying to sell it me.

Sure they try to sell tuff to you, what do you expect from a guy working in a shop? Its what theyre getting paid for.

Back when GW had a presence in the Northeastern US, the GW salesmen wouldn't be pushy in the slightest.

That was probably because the product sold itself.....

as a collector you know what you want to buy aswell, which is why i suppose that people feel that the staff are pushy and condescending.
now I myself take careful consideration into what i buy these days, for reasons stated above.

I guess the prime directive in the GW Councill of Evil is one of hard selling before everyone loses interest.

for a company i loved since i was 7 years old i am not very nice to it

im a bad man..........

Starting at an average of 5/10 (on a true neutral scale where 5 is no feelings either way):

First the positives:
+1 - Enjoy the universe of 40K
+1 - Love the models
+1 - Love some of the specialist games

For a score of 8/10

Then the negatives:
-1 - No support for specialist games
-1 - Constant price hikes
-1 - Treatment of customer base like The Enemy
-1 - Denial of the internet/21st century/other companies/that they are anything other than the whole wargaming hobby

For an overall score of 4/10. I would probably be tempted to go down to 3/10 adding an extra -1 for general dissatisfaction.

hey guys were nearly at 500 votes!

So whats the average? 6?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
but for a gaming company to stay as true to their products as they have without selling out is commendable in and of itself.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

without selling out? GW is the definition of selling out. Go check the dictionary, there is an actual picture of Kirby next to the "Selling Out" entry!

Ever look at the state of Dungeons & Dragons lately? They are now the WoW of the role-playing world. When TSR sold itself to Wizards of the Coast, who in turn were sold to Hasbro, that was a sell out. Who owns Games Workshop? That's right, Games Workshop does.

I couldn't care less about D&D and TSR.

But really, the old GW company motto was "by gamers for gamers", the moment that they wen't public they started to care only for how much profit they can make, that is selling out.

Also, the moment that they wen't public, GW stopped owning GW, they are owned by hundreds or thousands of share holders that don't care about GW customers or even about the product that the company makes they only care about share dividends, that is selling out.

NAVARRO wrote:So whats the average? 6?

with 496 votes its at 5.7

MrMerlin wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:So whats the average? 6?

with 496 votes its at 5.7

A bit above the water line then, many times people here do complain about the super fans or the chronic naysayers but at the end of the day its my impression that this score is really a mirror of the reality outhere... and its so funny that the final score is so moderate

The extreme pro/con viewpoint is more likely to be spoken, rather than the moderate middle. There is a large number of people in the middle who are not really moved to post, or are drowned out by the pro/con people.

yay, 500 votes!

I voted 5. Love the fluff, always have, always will, but I question the pricing and some of the decisions made over the years. Great plastic models, but the rest just really ruins for me.

I voted a 7/10.

I love Warhammer. I love 40k. I make no secret of that fact.

Now, what I do generally keep to myself is my irritation with some of the company practices. Things such as price raises irritate me, but generally--I ignore them as I have a fairly steady income during the summer and winter. During that timeframe, most of my money goes towards paying for college for the fall and spring--but what's left is banked and earns me interest until I need/want the funds.

What keeps me content with the amount I've spent over the years on Games Workshop's stuff however is the simple fact that as much as I like exploring other company's offerings, I just keep coming back to GW. There's something about the settings of their game that appeals to me in a way that Privateer Press or the other Big Names cannot. I can also be pretty certain of the fact that I've made a good investment. Whether it's the investment of time I've put into my models, the time I've spent reading the background material, or even just the people I've met--GW takes my money, and I get something tangible back.

if sending this to GW would make a difference id do it, but id bet my a** that theyd ignore it. But on the other hand, its nearly 500 complains at once....

MrMerlin wrote: its nearly 500 complains at once....

Most of the votes are not complaints.

While I do like 40k, I do not like Games Workshop. Any company that takes out loans to preserve its profit margin is being run into the ground.

I gave it a 6/10 because the prices are so damn high. About 50% higher than needed. How do i know? Because GW employees get 50% off all retail products, and any company that sells their product at a loss (with the exception of Sony) to their employees isn't smart.

DarknessEternal wrote:

MrMerlin wrote: its nearly 500 complains at once....

Most of the votes are not complaints.

well every guy voting 7 has some things bothering him right? Or else it would be 10

MrMerlin wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

MrMerlin wrote: its nearly 500 complains at once....

Most of the votes are not complaints.

well every guy voting 7 has some things bothering him right? Or else it would be 10

If nothing else this poll proves that many people when asked to rate something out of 10 will vote 7.

I'm being serious here, we covered it in a stats lecture last year.

I really have a problem with the embargo to my country, and the prices, and the secrecy, and the ego of the company. I really have a problem with almost everything on GW, but damn, their products are incredible. And so, i give a 5...

I gave them an 8/10. I think my only gripe is with the White Dwarf. I think it was at its best in the late 90's. I would like to see them promote the hobby more by showing more kit bashing, conversions, how to's, campaigns, fun rules for "in house only" events, and battle reports. I miss the days when there would be a card building, new strategy cards, wargear cards, vehicle data faxes, etc in each white dward. Heck from time to time there were new templates, games, and other tid bits in the magazine. Thats what I miss about the magazine.

MrMerlin wrote:
well every guy voting 7 has some things bothering him right? Or else it would be 10

Not enough to matter. Businesses don't try to meet the exact demands of every customer, that's impossible.

The problem with GW games is that they are meant for fun, not competetive play.... but people do it anyway so whatever.


I go to tournaments in order to play cool new people and fight painted WYSIWYG armies (which doesn't happen normally ha ha).

With that in mind, the prices are geting random. Most people will complain about them being high in general, but I think that's just a base few with out looking at the models as a whole. Some units are 10 bucks for a 250 point model, and other are 24 bucks for a 21 point model (chaos daemon changling).

And yes, WD used to be the gak ha ha... now I just go into the store and "read" (meaning look at the new models comming out) before I buy something. Not worth the cash anymore, which is sad, as I used to love them.

I think a lot of the older oop games are still alot of fun but could use a minor update.... which as lazy as most gamers are, you can just do it yourself.

The hobby, novels, and the great people I have met due to the hobby of Games workshop has more then made up for it's short comings though. Most of my best friends I have met from the game, and all the mega D bags I have met along the way have been funny as hell (I watched a guy throw a blood thirster through a wall once hahahaha). 8-10

theblessing8386 wrote:The problem with GW games is that they are meant for fun, not competetive play.... but people do it anyway so whatever.

I don't see why that should be an excuse for poor editing or how they seem to keep writing rules without reference to the core process.

It's meant to be a social game so even if played for fun, the rules should be well tested and edited to facilitate more time playing the game and making pew-pew noises and less time negotiating the rules before or during the game if you're playing pick-ups with people you don't know.

I would score GW 10/10

The company does what it does. As a customer you either accept that fact or you don't and go elsewhere.

In todays market, it doesn't make any sense (and you can argue till you're blue in the face) why anyone would have any score below 10?!? It's not like you're forced to use GW as an outlet for your hobby; yes, all your friends play, and yes, it's the only company that provides you a location to play at....blah, blah, but it's still your choice.

To complain about something while handing over your money with half mumbled regret and self soothing "logic" behind WHY you MUST spend your money at GW is borderline insanity.....seek help

Delephont wrote:
In todays market, it doesn't make any sense (and you can argue till you're blue in the face) why anyone would have any score below 10?!? It's not like you're forced to use GW as an outlet for your hobby; yes, all your friends play, and yes, it's the only company that provides you a location to play at....blah, blah, but it's still your choice.

To complain about something while handing over your money with half mumbled regret and self soothing "logic" behind WHY you MUST spend your money at GW is borderline insanity.....seek help

That is the most ******** piece of "logic" that I've read in a long time...

So someone can't like the games but dislike the company that produces them? If you like the 40k background and wish to buy some novels to enjoy it you automatically have to rate GW a 10?

Hell, I wouldn't rate any company in the miniature wargaming hobby as a 10/10, every single one of them, be it PP, BF, CB, has something that I don't like, does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

3/10. I love the universe, it is just that the company is getting lazy. I find myself just not bothering to play the game with the current codex power creep.

7/10
I do admit games workshop has its flaws...but I do really love their miniatures and simply fantastic customer service.
White dwarf in my opinion was ok in this period of time...but lately the past few issues have just been full of LOOK HAOW AWESHUM THISH IS BY EET BY EET! (the dreadfleet one in particular, any page not about dreadfleet was advertising something else...)

So yeah 7/10 for me, white dwarf is shining its shiny thing sin my face without any actual depth or general attention from me. hope the tidal wave of gak in WD will go away soon D:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

madman12367 wrote:7/10 i said this because, -2 for the prices -1 for the strict rules in many of the shops i have been in, say, no drinks, no food, no sitting, no 'off topic' convosation off warhammer

WoW your shop owners cruel. In my local hobby...place, (which is a games workshop) We talk about other things just as much as we talk about warhammer, plus I got a milkshake in there a few times along with other foodstuffs, thats just your store mate, not GW

PhantomViper wrote:does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

Apparently, yeah. If you don't think any company you buy products from is fething perfect then you should just stop buying and enjoying those products.

About the only good things about gw are the background and even that is standard sci-fi stuff and the mini's
GW mini's i can take or leave. There was some post in the painting and modelling section where a guy showed a 5 man squad of old marines and i was pleasantly surprised to see that they actually looked good, so clean looking ( the lack of skulls and purity seal band aids was great to see). I think when it comes to mini's less is definately more, i think that must be the reason i like PP models.

I still find it bizarre that alot of people admit that GW games are so-so, yet play these games like there is no other alternative. Take the leap people, it isn't really that scary.
The expense of gw gaming is truly insane. Instead of staying where its safe and rolling a , try new systems and roll a

PhantomViper wrote:So someone can't like the games but dislike the company that produces them? If you like the 40k background and wish to buy some novels to enjoy it you automatically have to rate GW a 10?

Hell, I wouldn't rate any company in the miniature wargaming hobby as a 10/10, every single one of them, be it PP, BF, CB, has something that I don't like, does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

This "supposed" split between a company and it's product is totally bogus. I'd draw your attention to the internet crazyness surrounding Mr. Ward. Surely the companys impact on the final product is directly affected by their drive and direction.....I've heard the argument that liking WH40K =/= like GW.....however, from any point of view the two are intertwined in every way.

How can you play WH40K without encountering GW's pricing? How can you read the fluff without encountering GW advertising slant? How can you enjoy the miniatures without traversing GW's attitude towards material selection and manufacturing techniques? (Finecast anyone?)

And yet.....here we are, caught in this love / hate relationship that so many would refuse exists?

Of course, it's easy to say you enjoy something but aspects of it really hack you off......but to be fair, who cares? the end effect....the hollow ring of the cash register, as your hard earn penny changes hand with the blue bedecked GW employee, says everything no internet poll can convey.

Call my logic fuzzy if you will.

Delephont wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:So someone can't like the games but dislike the company that produces them? If you like the 40k background and wish to buy some novels to enjoy it you automatically have to rate GW a 10?

Hell, I wouldn't rate any company in the miniature wargaming hobby as a 10/10, every single one of them, be it PP, BF, CB, has something that I don't like, does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

This "supposed" split between a company and it's product is totally bogus. I'd draw your attention to the internet crazyness surrounding Mr. Ward. Surely the companys impact on the final product is directly affected by their drive and direction.....I've heard the argument that liking WH40K =/= like GW.....however, from any point of view the two are intertwined in every way.

How can you play WH40K without encountering GW's pricing? How can you read the fluff without encountering GW advertising slant? How can you enjoy the miniatures without traversing GW's attitude towards material selection and manufacturing techniques? (Finecast anyone?)

And yet.....here we are, caught in this love / hate relationship that so many would refuse exists?

Of course, it's easy to say you enjoy something but aspects of it really hack you off......but to be fair, who cares? the end effect....the hollow ring of the cash register, as your hard earn penny changes hand with the blue bedecked GW employee, says everything no internet poll can convey.

Call my logic fuzzy if you will.

I go out of my way to avoid buying anything from GW. Almost everything I have has been constructed second hand, and I have A LOT of stuff. WH40k is a pretty good game and I enjoy it. GW is a horrible company and I despise it and the way they do "business". It's really that simple and easy.

JB_Man wrote:
I go out of my way to avoid buying anything from GW. Almost everything I have has been constructed second hand, and I have A LOT of stuff. WH40k is a pretty good game and I enjoy it. GW is a horrible company and I despise it and the way they do "business". It's really that simple and easy.

It's simple because you haven't grasped my point. The company products = the company, without the company there are no products, and vice versa.

How this isn't obvious is beyond me? Do you think there are little big eared men who work in a barn off the coast of England that make Space Marines so cool? All the great advertising that gets you salivating over the latest WH40K release is not created in a vacuum, it's produced by the same people who decide to hike prices, ban sales in certain countries by online retailers, and kill off metal production in place of Finecast.

This is the funny point, all of the individuals and departments in GW that make the game the thing you love are also the individuals and departments that make the decisions you hate.

Ying and Yang.....you can't have one without the other.

Delephont wrote:

JB_Man wrote:
I go out of my way to avoid buying anything from GW. Almost everything I have has been constructed second hand, and I have A LOT of stuff. WH40k is a pretty good game and I enjoy it. GW is a horrible company and I despise it and the way they do "business". It's really that simple and easy.

It's simple because you haven't grasped my point. The company products = the company, without the company there are no products, and vice versa.

How this isn't obvious is beyond me? Do you think there are little big eared men who work in a barn off the coast of England that make Space Marines so cool? All the great advertising that gets you salivating over the latest WH40K release is not created in a vacuum, it's produced by the same people who decide to hike prices, ban sales in certain countries by online retailers, and kill off metal production in place of Finecast.

This is the funny point, all of the individuals and departments in GW that make the game the thing you love are also the individuals and departments that make the decisions you hate.

Ying and Yang.....you can't have one without the other.

A company and it's products are not the same. A company is an entity with an identity. It makes business decisions. It's chooses to triple prices, limit exports, attempt to kill internet business, and go sue-happy on anything and anyone. Plastic soldiers make none of these decisions. They have no desire to make a profit. They have no motive. They are either plastic soldiers you like or don't like.

I don't even understand why this warrants discussion.

Delephont wrote:

JB_Man wrote:
I go out of my way to avoid buying anything from GW. Almost everything I have has been constructed second hand, and I have A LOT of stuff. WH40k is a pretty good game and I enjoy it. GW is a horrible company and I despise it and the way they do "business". It's really that simple and easy.

It's simple because you haven't grasped my point. The company products = the company, without the company there are no products, and vice versa.

How this isn't obvious is beyond me? Do you think there are little big eared men who work in a barn off the coast of England that make Space Marines so cool? All the great advertising that gets you salivating over the latest WH40K release is not created in a vacuum, it's produced by the same people who decide to hike prices, ban sales in certain countries by online retailers, and kill off metal production in place of Finecast.

This is the funny point, all of the individuals and departments in GW that make the game the thing you love are also the individuals and departments that make the decisions you hate.

Ying and Yang.....you can't have one without the other.

That logic is wrong on so many levels that I can't even begin to argue against it...

You are saying that it is the creative department that decides the price hikes? That the guys that write the codices are the ones that decided to embargo Australia?

The company is the sum of all its parts, but just because you love some part of it, doesn't mean that you have to love the entire company, do you understand this concept?

Hell, even inside the development deparment I hate everything made by Matt Ward but I love Robin Cruddace's work. And both those things have some influence in my overall opinion of the company but I don't have to hate the company just because I hate some parts of it any more than I have to think that GW is perfect just because I enjoy playing 40K...

Ok my two pence. Take the company and the products away and 40k still exists, the universe and what makes 40k great were created way before the company itself took a wrong turn. Its quite easy to love the concepts without ever having to go anywhere near GW. I am part of a fairly large group of 2nd ed players that having been doing just that for almost 15 years.

PhantomViper wrote:That logic is wrong on so many levels that I can't even begin to argue against it...

You are saying that it is the creative department that decides the price hikes? That the guys that write the codices are the ones that decided to embargo Australia?

The company is the sum of all its parts, but just because you love some part of it, doesn't mean that you have to love the entire company, do you understand this concept?

Hell, even inside the development deparment I hate everything made by Matt Ward but I love Robin Cruddace's work. And both those things have some influence in my overall opinion of the company but I don't have to hate the company just because I hate some parts of it any more than I have to think that GW is perfect just because I enjoy playing 40K...

I agree.

Let me put my point another way.....to get to the diamond, you need to wade through a ton of S$%*, add to that the fact, that ton of S$%* has the potential to define / destroy / affect the diamond in some way.

By supporting the diamond you're also propping up the S$%*, so end effect, as long as you're willing to wade through the muck to get that diamond, you're a grown-up (I assume) and you know what's what, why go on complaining about it?

Either the S$%* aint so bad so you'll carry on scrambling around in it, or it's so bad that you'll give up and seek another diamond elsewhere.

Delephont wrote:
I agree.

Let me put my point another way.....to get to the diamond, you need to wade through a ton of S$%*, add to that the fact, that ton of S$%* has the potential to define / destroy / affect the diamond in some way.

By supporting the diamond you're also propping up the S$%*, so end effect, as long as you're willing to wade through the muck to get that diamond, you're a grown-up (I assume) and you know what's what, why go on complaining about it?

Either the S$%* aint so bad so you'll carry on scrambling around in it, or it's so bad that you'll give up and seek another diamond elsewhere.

Ok, now I understand what you are saying.

Well, I don't support them in the way that I don't buy stuff from GW anymore. You could say that I generate free publicity for them by playing their games in a public venue but that is as far as my (current), support for them goes and I think I've balanced that by selling all of my old WHFB and 40K armies and thus impacting on their sales of new models...

Delephont wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:So someone can't like the games but dislike the company that produces them? If you like the 40k background and wish to buy some novels to enjoy it you automatically have to rate GW a 10?

Hell, I wouldn't rate any company in the miniature wargaming hobby as a 10/10, every single one of them, be it PP, BF, CB, has something that I don't like, does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

This "supposed" split between a company and it's product is totally bogus. I'd draw your attention to the internet crazyness surrounding Mr. Ward. Surely the companys impact on the final product is directly affected by their drive and direction.....I've heard the argument that liking WH40K =/= like GW.....however, from any point of view the two are intertwined in every way.

How can you play WH40K without encountering GW's pricing? How can you read the fluff without encountering GW advertising slant? How can you enjoy the miniatures without traversing GW's attitude towards material selection and manufacturing techniques? (Finecast anyone?)

And yet.....here we are, caught in this love / hate relationship that so many would refuse exists?

Of course, it's easy to say you enjoy something but aspects of it really hack you off......but to be fair, who cares? the end effect....the hollow ring of the cash register, as your hard earn penny changes hand with the blue bedecked GW employee, says everything no internet poll can convey.

Call my logic fuzzy if you will.

Lets compare *GW-products* and *Gw-sales management* with "wife" and "mother in law". You can love the first one and still hate the second.

MrMerlin wrote:
Lets compare *GW-products* and *Gw-sales management* with "wife" and "mother in law". You can love the first one and still hate the second.

Nice.

There is a difference though! One would hope that your Mother in Law doesn't re-define your wife every five - six years.

If that were the case, you've either got to start loving the Mother in Law or ditch them both.

7-8ish

Love the product, hate the price.

7/10, love the 40k universe, but those prices and my DA...err...

Since we are going into familly comparisons lets just say GW is that old college sweetheart you used to have a good time with but she never really keep up with the times and her head still stuck in the past... I mean today you would meet her and have a good night for old times sake but your having much more fun with the modern chicks out there. Do you hater her? Nah we old farts do respect the past... even if she's a 6 today you still have a bit of fun with her. Dont hate just spread the love.

I voted 6/10... a month ago it would have been 4 or 5

My reasoning... I love their sculpts, even if for marines Scibor does better. I love most of their terrain, even if they're getting stupidly skull-happy. Finecast seems to be getting straightened out, though the first piece I saw was terrible.

What I don't like - price increases. That said, my objection to that decreased somewhat when I got to visit Warhammer World. There were a lot of nice, if not amazing, cars in their lot and the employees seemed genuinely happy. To me, that increases customer loyalty - I like dealing with companies that seem to treat employees well.

Other things I'm not a fan of - super-secret-squirrel marketing campaigns... lack of support for their own products... and most particularly their take on IP, considering that an awful lot of their universe is borrowed or directly stolen.

Could we split the poll?

General opinion of the actions of GW plc .1

General opinion of the actions of the GW studio staff.8

Everything BAD about GW plc is directly down to poor corperate managment .

Everthing great about GW is down to the talented studio staff!

8/10. Why? I am a fanboy.

Deal with it.

Lanrak wrote:Could we split the poll?

General opinion of the actions of GW plc .1

General opinion of the actions of the GW studio staff.8

Everything BAD about GW plc is directly down to poor corperate managment .

Everthing great about GW is down to the talented studio staff!

Yes, I very much agree with this. All they need is a new management.

6/10 nice fluff models and rules, but they are just money grabbers now (which makes little Spartan sad...).

3/10

-2 points for no more Mega-Campaigns. I miss Armageddon and the Eye of Terror Global Campaigns with a passion and could care less about 'Ard Boyz.
-2 points for a lack of balance to the game. How old is the oldest Codex, now? Until next week I believe it's Necrons at 8 years. What about the next oldest? And each one is either met with wild cries of cheese or a groan as it doesn't beat the current frontrunner. How do you improve the odds of a 10-man Space Marine Tactical squad - supposedly the elite warriors of the galaxy - so that they don't miss every shot they fire against standard grunts of other races? Look at something along the lines of "Combined Ranged Attack" in Warmachine.
-2 points for a lack of support for an Organized Play/Demo Team. Not all of us live near battle bunkers and stores DEDICATED to Game Workshop. Bring Back the Outrider program and support it like Wizards supports the DCI, Privateer supports its Pressgangers, Wyrd Games supports its Henchmen for Malifaux.
-1 point for a feeling of unintentional forward momentum. The Inquisition needed their own Codex which would INCLUDE the GK and the SoB and the DW as options. Instead the Inquisition is crazy all over the place and no good Deathwatch rules.
-1 point for removing customization in armies. I miss IG combat doctrines and the Codex Variations from 4th edition codexes.
-1 point for there STILL not being plastic Sisters of Battle.
-1 point for turning WD into a catalogue.

+2 points for Black Library fiction by Dan Abnett.
+1 point because its the one game my brother and I can both agree to play.

All of that being said, GW is still my second favorite miniatures game company.

Farquestor wrote:3/10

-2 points for no more Mega-Campaigns. I miss Armageddon and the Eye of Terror Global Campaigns with a passion and could care less about 'Ard Boyz.
-2 points for a lack of balance to the game. How old is the oldest Codex, now? Until next week I believe it's Necrons at 8 years. What about the next oldest? And each one is either met with wild cries of cheese or a groan as it doesn't beat the current frontrunner. How do you improve the odds of a 10-man Space Marine Tactical squad - supposedly the elite warriors of the galaxy - so that they don't miss every shot they fire against standard grunts of other races? Look at something along the lines of "Combined Ranged Attack" in Warmachine.
-2 points for a lack of support for an Organized Play/Demo Team. Not all of us live near battle bunkers and stores DEDICATED to Game Workshop. Bring Back the Outrider program and support it like Wizards supports the DCI, Privateer supports its Pressgangers, Wyrd Games supports its Henchmen for Malifaux.
-1 point for a feeling of unintentional forward momentum. The Inquisition needed their own Codex which would INCLUDE the GK and the SoB and the DW as options. Instead the Inquisition is crazy all over the place and no good Deathwatch rules.
-1 point for removing customization in armies. I miss IG combat doctrines and the Codex Variations from 4th edition codexes.
-1 point for there STILL not being plastic Sisters of Battle.
-1 point for turning WD into a catalogue.

+2 points for Black Library fiction by Dan Abnett.
+1 point because its the one game my brother and I can both agree to play.

All of that being said, GW is still my second favorite miniatures game company.

OMG SOMEBODY NOTICED!!!!

Im still waiting for a DW codex (sadder Spartan mode...)

Lanrak wrote:Could we split the poll?

General opinion of the actions of GW plc .1

General opinion of the actions of the GW studio staff.8

Everything BAD about GW plc is directly down to poor corperate managment .

Everthing great about GW is down to the talented studio staff!

i agree with you on that, its a shame they are managed by leeches

If GW sold cars, they'd be selling sleek sexy sports cars, complete with all leather heated interior, integrated GPS, premium audio, moonroof, 18" alloy wheels with low profile sport tires, 30 color options (3 coat premium coat) and high intensity LED headlamps - however, the steering wheel and seatbelts sold seperately and the only available engine is a 80HP 4 cylinder.

keezus wrote:If GW sold cars, they'd be selling sleek sexy sports cars, complete with all leather heated interior, integrated GPS, premium audio, moonroof, 18" alloy wheels with low profile sport tires, 30 color options (3 coat premium coat) and high intensity LED headlamps - however, the steering wheel and seatbelts sold seperately and the only available engine is a 80HP 4 cylinder.

haha LOL, you forgot that the seats would be full of little failcast holes, and youd have to buy some extra fixin' stuff for 100$

keezus wrote:If GW sold cars, they'd be selling sleek sexy sports cars, complete with all leather heated interior, integrated GPS, premium audio, moonroof, 18" alloy wheels with low profile sport tires, 30 color options (3 coat premium coat) and high intensity LED headlamps - however, the steering wheel and seatbelts sold seperately and the only available engine is a 80HP 4 cylinder.

Are you saying.. something... that ... might ... look like..... a Porsche, Keezus.. ???

*drum roll please*

McNinja wrote:While I do like 40k, I do not like Games Workshop. Any company that takes out loans to preserve its profit margin is being run into the ground.

I gave it a 6/10 because the prices are so damn high. About 50% higher than needed. How do i know? Because GW employees get 50% off all retail products, and any company that sells their product at a loss (with the exception of Sony) to their employees isn't smart.

When I used to work for GW, it was a lot more than that. You could buy metals 'by weight' (paying 20-30c for a single metal miniature), I believe I got an entire IG Steel Legion army for less than $200 (actual price would have been closer to $800). I'm not sure why the policy was changed, but I think the high staff turnover, combined with selling on ebay had something to do with it.

Someone posted a while back about how well they treat their staff (sorry couldn't find the exact quote). Well, they are certainly not the worst company I have worked for, but I did hear some absolute horror stories of other stuff that has gone on. I won't repeat it here, suffice to say the 'happy family' picture (as it probably does with most larger companies) doesn't fit well.

keezus wrote:If GW sold cars, they'd be selling sleek sexy sports cars, complete with all leather heated interior, integrated GPS, premium audio, moonroof, 18" alloy wheels with low profile sport tires, 30 color options (3 coat premium coat) and high intensity LED headlamps - however, the steering wheel and seatbelts sold seperately and the only available engine is a 80HP 4 cylinder.

And they’d sell a stitching kit so you could fix (READ: finish) the upholstery yourself, and occasionally you’d get a car where they haven’t taken off the masking material they put on all the windows when they spray paint it.

I'm perplexed why people are so shocked that models require modeling.

They don't come painted and assembled either; are you going to start whining about that next?

DarknessEternal wrote:I'm perplexed why people are so shocked that models require modeling.

They don't come painted and assembled either; are you going to start whining about that next?

They aren't meant to come painted and assembled. They are meant to come cast to a standard that requires only limited repair/cleaning.

DarknessEternal wrote:I'm perplexed why people are so shocked that models require modeling.

They don't come painted and assembled either; are you going to start whining about that next?

I'm perplexed why people don't know the difference between modeling and miscasts. In almost all resin industry there are high quality standards, some more than others but none as bad as GW... You can call fixing overpriced miscasts modeling I call it rip off.

I like the models but the prices are too high.

I think certain companies hide a general lack of quality behind the “hobby” aspect of their products. It’s gotten to the point where someone is actually looked down upon if they complain, because it hints at a lacking in their “hobby” skills.

Those companies that engage in this type of activity are having a grand old time.....I mean, do you know how much it costs a company to ensure quality from their output? Believe me, it’s not cheap.

Now when these guys convince you that you should pay a higher price for the privilege of correcting their process issues, then I’m sorry, but that’s daylight robbery.

So how will you “hobbyists” feel when GW attempts to sell you a schematic of a Space Marine for £1000 and expects you to sculpt and cast it yourself (maintaining I.P. laws of course!)?.....ok, that’s a gross extrapolation of possibility, but the question still stands, where does product quality stop and hobby interactions start?

Gotta go with a 5 here.

I would have given more if it weren't for the following:

- Finecast
- 8th Ed. Fantasy
- Prices
- WD ( which is an absolute abomination these days, I used to love that time of month )

Other than that I love the stuff they do, the plastic mini's, the paints and the BL are all fantastic! Well except the ultramarines omnibus by Mr McNiell.......that was awful........

8/10, suits my needs

A good company that lost touch with their customer base and has become deaf to feedback who releases product, but is too concerned about the next release to refine or polish the current.

Love the product and background, absolutely HATE this trade embargo/southern hemisphere pricing :(

Interestinglty in regards to WD - even the Store staff said to me this Month "Unless you like Dreadfleet - don't Bother"

Pfft - GW. You want to charge $13.50 for a sales brochure? They actually CLAIM it on Tax as a 'Business Advertising cost' - which is why it clearly states 'catalog' on the cover.

Money Grubbing Parasites.

6/10, Love Warhammer 40k and Fantasy, love the back ground, but the companies actions recently have not been good (price rise)...what I wonder is what will happen if they raise the price next year... hmmm

7/10
+2...love the fluff of the universe.
+2...DE got a new codex finally and it isn't OP
-2...WD is a joke now
+1...WD used to be nice and I still have the old copies.
+1...I haven't had any bad experiences with finecast...Cowgirl and honor guard (got em for the HG and cowgirl for a buddy), warhydra, and a new archon...no miscasts and no bubbles!
+1 for a decent ruleset. It's a pain when people try to rule lawyer their way then I use the old addage on Pg2...it is RAW that you shut up about RAW. It's a game.
+1 I actually liked BFG. I still have my DE and imperium fleets.
+2 For the sculpts currently. I mean have you seen the new DE stuff? It looks really good.
+2 for cumoster service. Missing one bit on a baneblade and I got a whole new one!
+1 for not making all stores that carry GW stuff required to be a GW store anymore...at least carry the exact same as GW stores.
-2 for communication, and getting so tight lipped about upcomming events.
-2 for price hikes...this one ticks me off. They are running the business backward...you don't raise prices to meet your bottom line. You lower them to sell more product to meet your bottom line.

Still 1 / 10 is still to generous.

I don't care for their antics, but that plastic release thing might be a hopeful step in the right direction.

I like those RPG's, which is thier only saving grace for me right now about them.

I'm back to RT, hoping to regain some perspective before they went off the deep end and decided to hose us all on every little front.

I loves me some RT, Hates me some GW.

Its hard to put a numerical value on it for me.

I love their game, I love their fluff and I love their miniature line. Say what you will, but I don't believe it is coincidence that they are one of the most popular tabletop war-game producers about.

However, for me, its the administrative manners that seriously detract from my over all opinion of them. Exorbitantly and unjustifiably ridiculous prices in Australia, followed by the banning IR in Europe and such from shipping out to us further cements that they fully expect us to pay these prices.
Say what you will, but I refuse to pay $110 AUD for a Stormraven. And for those Yankies who aren't aware, the Australian dollar is pretty much equal at the present moment, so what your looking at is fairly accurate for you guys too.
The quality issues with fine cast (and the way that its argued as being significantly more expensive to produce than pewter figures by GW employees - and I know thats a-whole-nother can of worms we can reopen another time ), general issues with staff being either exceptionally over zealous in their approach to retail OR adopting a 'higher-than-thou' approach with every facet of the hobby basically stops me from attending the store - hence why I started a gaming club.

I love what they do, I hate how they do it.

~Ghost

GW to me, is a matter I get very mad at, though I have a short fuse

I begun this when I was 12, a little over 10 years ago, I funded my first army, Dark Eldar, with a summer job, and would with summer jobs for years to come. It was a really interesting hobby where my weird and wacky idea's had no limit, sure I never liked space marines but there was a lot of other, just as good on the table stuff to choose from
then that begun to change, maybe because I grew up, but I begun to realize when I was nearing 20 the hobby was really changing on me, I begun to enjoy it less and less, outright quit 40K in favour of fantasy, until that became totally unplayable (the demons) then that changed and the rules were, well crappy, so I tried 40k again and said to hell with that. Fantasy is still meh, I don't want to have to paint hundreds of models to have a 2000 pt game.
40k is still ass, because I still refuse to play marines, I pretty much decided to hell with this, I am gonna play old editions, I enjoyed those!
and now I play 4th

It's a shame that there is no way of correlating age of voters next to the voting figure, or at least time spent in the hobby.

I would be willing to bet that for those who it is a fresh experience a high vote is more likely, while some of us cynical old bastards who have been around for a longer time will give it a lower vote.

Pacific wrote:It's a shame that there is no way of correlating age of voters next to the voting figure, or at least time spent in the hobby.

I would be willing to bet that for those who it is a fresh experience a high vote is more likely, while some of us cynical old bastards who have been around for a longer time will give it a lower vote.

That as well as those people that work for the company now and those who worked for the company in the past.

7/10 and heres why.

- GOD DAUM the quality of models is the best i have seen.
- The price of one character costs as much as vehicle and 4 knights can cost as much as a battle force/battalion. So the price scaling is a bit off; i understand quality allows higher prices but not to the point where cocaine becomes a cheaper hobby.

- They have not told EA to stuff it and taken back their fantasy IP. I mean c'mon anyone led to warhammer by DoW that saw WAR can tell you its bad for the IP. Long since past the time when WAR should have been shut down and mythic been hit so hard with a law suit that they sever its connection to the EA hive mind. The game doesn't do the IP justice and probably drives people away from it; given how it was launched. I understand they wanted to get gamers into wargaming but they need to back track and do like they did with 40k. Start with RTS games, escalate to third person games(in Warhammers case i vote Skyrim/Oblivion -esque RPG), THEN do the MMO. Avoid the system shock to gamers that know the familiarity of Blizzards similar appearing races.

- The IPs are still good; not a fan of where i expect 40k going to. Warhammer fantasy has appeared dead in the water sicne the MMO bombed(and subsequently made it radioactive) and 40k is doing well but i have a sinking feeling that they are going to aim directly for 9 year olds and that will bring a drop in quality of fluff. Despite how much i like 40k i find myself leaning towards fantasy simply because it SEEMS like its less like battle porn. Even if that's because GW has pretty much abandoned it for 40k.

- Customer service seems pretty good but their website lacks product images(need to back track and provide more)

- major point of anger/rage Less ranty version Damnit that rant never gets old. Fortunately i did not take that apartment in Cedar Hill otherwise i would never see the inside of a gaming club.

The only saving grace GW has is the fluff and extensive plastic range. The second another company comes up with a decent fluff and army sized battles with plastic models im jumping ships. Yes mantic im looking at you, opportunity is there just need to grab it.

3/10.

Customer relations is the worst I have seen in a war gaming company, ever.

Customer? Oh, for other companies we are still called hobbyists.

Akroma06 wrote:7/10
+2...love the fluff of the universe.
+2...DE got a new codex finally and it isn't OP
-2...WD is a joke now
+1...WD used to be nice and I still have the old copies.
+1...I haven't had any bad experiences with finecast...Cowgirl and honor guard (got em for the HG and cowgirl for a buddy), warhydra, and a new archon...no miscasts and no bubbles!
+1 for a decent ruleset. It's a pain when people try to rule lawyer their way then I use the old addage on Pg2...it is RAW that you shut up about RAW. It's a game.
+1 I actually liked BFG. I still have my DE and imperium fleets.
+2 For the sculpts currently. I mean have you seen the new DE stuff? It looks really good.
+2 for cumoster service. Missing one bit on a baneblade and I got a whole new one!
+1 for not making all stores that carry GW stuff required to be a GW store anymore...at least carry the exact same as GW stores.
-2 for communication, and getting so tight lipped about upcomming events.
-2 for price hikes...this one ticks me off. They are running the business backward...you don't raise prices to meet your bottom line. You lower them to sell more product to meet your bottom line.

This is a awesome post!

Byte wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:7/10
+2...love the fluff of the universe.
+2...DE got a new codex finally and it isn't OP
-2...WD is a joke now
+1...WD used to be nice and I still have the old copies.
+1...I haven't had any bad experiences with finecast...Cowgirl and honor guard (got em for the HG and cowgirl for a buddy), warhydra, and a new archon...no miscasts and no bubbles!
+1 for a decent ruleset. It's a pain when people try to rule lawyer their way then I use the old addage on Pg2...it is RAW that you shut up about RAW. It's a game.
+1 I actually liked BFG. I still have my DE and imperium fleets.
+2 For the sculpts currently. I mean have you seen the new DE stuff? It looks really good.
+2 for cumoster service. Missing one bit on a baneblade and I got a whole new one!
+1 for not making all stores that carry GW stuff required to be a GW store anymore...at least carry the exact same as GW stores.
-2 for communication, and getting so tight lipped about upcomming events.
-2 for price hikes...this one ticks me off. They are running the business backward...you don't raise prices to meet your bottom line. You lower them to sell more product to meet your bottom line.

This is a awesome post!

You do realize that sarcasm is really dificult to put across in writing, right?

Especially because of this:

Akroma06 wrote:
+1 for a decent ruleset. It's a pain when people try to rule lawyer their way then I use the old addage on Pg2...it is RAW that you shut up about RAW. It's a game.