Do you you know that cheating gamer? that gamer that tries to win by screwing you over some how someway.
He does not put enough damage on his/her characters.... constantly.
Counts dice rolls incorrectly giving him/her more hits than they rolled?
We have a new gamer at the store that does this all the time and my group is getting a bit fed up with him.
Today while playing a civil war game and battle tech he insists be re-roll their dice if any part of the dice lops over the side of the table. Even if it is the corner of a die. But only insists this if it is a high roll.
If a die does not roll "correctly" (ie bounce enough to his liking) he will demand you to re-roll it. Again this only occurs if he can benefit from it.
If a die rolls on a rules cheat sheet he will demand that you re-roll it claiming the piece of paper gave it an unfair advantage. Once again, only does it when it is to his advantage.
We brought this up to him throughout many games. All he does is yell how smart he is because he watches a lot of history channel and science shows. I told him congradulations you now know aliens built the pyramids and probed Hitler which caused WWII and the Holocaust.
Now for the part that feels like someone stuck a razor blade up my ass.
He's 19 years old. He brings his mother down with him to enforce his bull crap ideas. Now, I just can't lash out and threaten to stop his ass for being a little jagbag. I tried to explain to his mother the situation.
But her little precious spoiled knows everything thanks to Sesame Street education is always right.
While reading this, if you are suggesting go to the store owner... well that would seems like the simple solution... right? we did. Turns out the kid and mother and very very good friends.
I really have no other alternative other than to bail out of the store and play somewhere else unless we can come to an agreement of sorts.
I wrote this letter/email to see if things can change
Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
I am writing on behalf of our game club that plays at your game shop every Saturday. It is apparent and with much arduousness that the shop's new customer has received special privileges that gives a competitive edge in every game on his command. I know we are simple folk who's education can never match that, of one who watches the History channel. But we can manage on how a game plays, and XXXX's manipulation of rules and dice rolls have made games unmanageable. We have been loyal customers. Some members of our club have been customers since 1962 when the store first opened.
I realize you just purchased the store last year from the original owner. You are still grasping the financial side of things and still trying to understand the idea of customer loyalty and appreciation. Therefore, if you do not ban XXXX from the game store or allow fair competitive game play back into the store our club will no longer be purchasing products from your store.
I know 12 customers may not seem like a lot to care about, but here is something to consider. I have averaged out the purchases made from your store from the past 5 years. Our members have spent $2,000-3,000 dollars a year each. or about $24,000-36,000 a year.
I can't tell you how to run your business. I hope you make the decisions that is best for yourself and other customers. Because I would hate to see another person join the unemployment line.
I have yet to send it, but, believe it is the only possible way.
ÆΞØИ wrote:His mom can't force you guys to play with him.
No, he or she can't. But can annoy us until we do. Trying playing a game with a 500 lbs. woman that smells like cheap Guatemalan hotel hovering over you. Or a 19 year old kid who acts like a 3 year old until you play with him.
You're letter is both sarcastic and not a little condescending to the store owner. I don't think it will occomplish what you desire perhaps the opposite. Letters are too formal and will come across as an ultimatum or threat, I wouldn't send it.
If everyone refuses to play with the berk that should hit the message home. If he has no one to play then he will either get bored and move on or perhaps change his ways.
ÆΞØИ wrote:His mom can't force you guys to play with him.
No, he or she can't. But can annoy us until we do. Trying playing a game with a 500 lbs. woman that smells like cheap Guatemalan hotel hovering over you. Or a 19 year old kid who acts like a 3 year old until you play with him.
Seriously? Grow a pair. Don't play against him. If his mom tries to annoy you into it, ignore her. Just play against the people you know.
Another solution - someone make a table at home, and simply stop playing there. Making a table isn't hard at all, and you might start to enjoy not playing at the shop. After all, you won't be resricted by open hours.
Your letter sucks. Don't send it, it will have the opposite to the desired effect.
Look, this guy comes down to the store and makes things uncomfortable, right? He argues about dice rolls and gets his mum to come down and help him out.
Well, just stop letting him.
You're a grown man. If he wants a dice to be re-rolled simply say "No, I won't do that, the dice is flat and the result is fair" and then deal with the fallout. He might throw a tantrum and start screaming and yelling, holding his breath and stamping his feet, but so what?
Don't play against him. If his mom tries to annoy you into it, ignore her. Just play against the people you know.
Another solution - someone make a table at home, and simply stop playing there. Making a table isn't hard at all, and you might start to enjoy not playing at the shop. After all, you won't be resricted by open hours.
It's really not that simple as you make it out to be. We ignore him. We address our frustrations over and over to him and his mother. The only way we can actually get any gaming done is if one of us serves as the sacrificial pacifier. As stated earlier, the new shop owner does not help with the situation, if anything it is encouraged.
We do have game tables at home, but we also enjoy going down to the shop once a week as an outing.
Well, just stop letting him.
We've tried every time. You can't continue the game until he get his way or he will throw things, generally just dice.
And about my letter? What sucks about it? Condescending?
From a store owner who tells us to play nicely when we brought the issue up, being polite about it was the idea a week ago. And the week before that. And the week before that. And all those weeks before that too.
Are you sure the kid hasn't got some sort of issues that you're not being told about. People having tantrums and throwing stuff about at the age of 19 doesn't sound right to me.
Anyway, your letter is condescending in several places and likely won't get the result you are after at all.
Really you should just ignore him. You can't be forced to play him, I don't understand the point here. Just decline to game with him.
If you do play, insist upon the rules, lay down the law. If he throws a tantrum and stuff gets broken, well then you can have it out with the owner and this kid.
I suggest that you find a bit of space you can rent once a week and have the club meet there. The advantage to a private club is that you can ask people not to come back....
(to get somewhere cheap think outside the box. A lot of stadiums have meeting rooms that are empty during the week. Try political clubs that have premises, gyms, etc. It's not especially easy but it's well worth doing!)
I do agree that the letter's rather condescending - mostly the second paragraph, I think.
Main thing, don't play with the guy. At all. Ever. If he's throwing things, even if it's just dice at the moment, there's no guarantee that he won't escalate to throwing other things - like books, or other people's models. There's also the potential he could injure somebody that way - maybe point this out to the store owner, and mention the legal problems that could bring. Not in a threatening manner, just a "hey, you might not have considered this, but this could happen".
If ignoring the guy doesn't work, and the shop owner doesn't do anything about it, next time the guy and/or his mum start trying to bully you into playing, just start obviously packing your stuff up. If they ask what you're doing, just say something like "This is a game that's meant to be fun. You are making it not fun, therefore we are leaving." Preferably loud enough for the owner to hear.
By giving in to their demands all the time, you're just enabling them and reinforcing their bad behaviour. Stop doing that, and remove yourselves from the situation. Sure, you'll have to sacrifice some of your funtime at the shop - but if it's not fun because of these idiots, then you're not losing much of anything anyway. If you're really desperate to get your gametime in there, go get some food or something, then come back in an hour or so to see if they're still there. If they are, that day's probably a loss. If they've given up and gone away though, hey, all good.
Piston Honda wrote:It's really not that simple as you make it out to be. We ignore him. We address our frustrations over and over to him and his mother. The only way we can actually get any gaming done is if one of us serves as the sacrificial pacifier.
We've tried every time. You can't continue the game until he get his way or he will throw things, generally just dice.
Nonsense. What are they going to do? Lay on the tables and prevent gaming until the son has a game? Physically bar people from setting up and rolling dice?
No. They might piss and moan, but so what? Deal with it. As soon as they stop getting their way, they'll stop going to the store.
So what if he throws dice? Just ignore him, refuse to play him, or simply start packing up if he throws a tantrum mid-game.
If you let them bully you into giving him a game, they'll just keep doing it.
And about my letter? What sucks about it? Condescending?
If your whole group are in the same boat, you basically team up and ignore him, or a persistent in your grievance, but a letter like that won't get you anywhere.
What I'd advise is if you really think you can't get away from him (bare in mind, you say there are 12 of you, ergo, equal numbers so a game each) say you're a clan and are preparing for upcoming games against other clans and to join your clan there is a $250 fee or something, then he won't be trying to join in.
I would go with the ignore at all costs approach. Go a bit early so that you are all set up to play and maybe underway with games by the time he arrives. If he whines about not having an opponent then that's just tough. Have your next round of games preplanned as well. That way he will have no reason to whine at you, as it's his own fault for being late on the scene.
Also, try organising a tournament in your club, where you have to fight all of the members of your club over a period of weeks. As he isn't a member of your club leave him out of the tournament line-up. If he asks to join in just tell him that he isn't a member of the club. If he asks to join the club then just tell him that, having played him in the past, he doesn't meet the required standards of sportsmanship as he cheats and makes the games thoroughly unpleasant for all of you. And make sure your club stand together as a unit on it. He'll soon realise his error and clean up his act, or leave.
The above advice is probably best. Make it clear you're not willing to play with someone who is ruining it for everyone. But I've known people who were not able to confront such people in person (this may be you, though I assume nothing). In such a case, here is a more edited letter that may be considered helpful rather than criticizing:
Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
As a long time customer, I have enjoyed my time in your shop (under previous and current management) and it has been a very welcoming establishment. Sadly, it seems that this atmosphere is deteriorating. It has become apparent, to both myself and other loyal customers, that certain customers have become very unkind and inhospitable, to the point where our time spent in the store is no longer enjoyable and becoming less and less a viable option. We have attempted mediation, but it is becoming increasingly strenuous and cooperation seems unlikely. I'm sure with proper steps from ownership to prevent bullying and unfair behavior, any differences between various customers and players can be overcome, but until such time, I foresee an unfortunate drop in myself and other's patronage to your store.
Sincerely,
PistonHonda,
A Concerned Customer
As the old saying goes, more flies with honey than vinegar.
Explain to him, not his mother, that you will not be playing him until he has embraced the notion of playing fairly. Remind him that a game should be enjoyed by both sides and that playing him as things stand, with him being elastic with the rules for his army, feels like playing a cheat and is not fun.
Do it calmly, do it without malice or raising your voice or becoming in any way agitated. Once you have calmly stated your position, resume your games with others and do not engage him or his mother in any attempt they make to argue...
Don't play against him. If his mom tries to annoy you into it, ignore her. Just play against the people you know.
Another solution - someone make a table at home, and simply stop playing there. Making a table isn't hard at all, and you might start to enjoy not playing at the shop. After all, you won't be resricted by open hours.
It's really not that simple as you make it out to be. We ignore him. We address our frustrations over and over to him and his mother. The only way we can actually get any gaming done is if one of us serves as the sacrificial pacifier. As stated earlier, the new shop owner does not help with the situation, if anything it is encouraged.
We do have game tables at home, but we also enjoy going down to the shop once a week as an outing.
Well, just stop letting him.
We've tried every time. You can't continue the game until he get his way or he will throw things, generally just dice.
And about my letter? What sucks about it? Condescending?
From a store owner who tells us to play nicely when we brought the issue up, being polite about it was the idea a week ago. And the week before that. And the week before that. And all those weeks before that too.
None sense, ok to me it sounds like you and your friends have tried for a long time, to Ignore the spoiled brat but, have you tried to ignore him for the whole day? my advice is try this and see how it go's and if he starts throwing dice (or models for the matter) then tell him he is being a spoiled brat and to stop it and if he go's crying to his mom/guy who runs store about that write down a list of what he constantly dose and give it to his mom/guy who runs store then tell him/her he has to improve the things on the list before he has another game with you.
If this doesn't work then tell him/her that you will not be bullied into a game with this lad for your spare time.
The letter is a last resort (NEVER do it until it becomes store owner becomes impossible), mainly as in paragraph 2 it sound like your black-mailing him and in third paragraph your telling the store owner his own profits (store owners Dont like either...)
Don't send this letter. If he acts like a small kidd, he will not understand it. I'd play the games without him unless its a tourney. Just ignore his mother.
Basically, you're being bullied by a 19 year-old mommy's boy.
You did behave as though he was a good-willing adult, you did try diplomacy... But you've been giving in up until now. Is that about right ? Because athough it sounds hardly credible, it comes across as that. The bit about him bragging about his general knowledge when you bring up his poor sportsmanship sounds like a non sequitur.
Well then, take it to the next step : confront him. Spank him like the spoiled little brat that he is, tell his awful mother to go feth herself because no, her little sweetie is not the second coming of the Messiah and he's ruining the fun for all the reasonable grown ups with his being TFG.
Or, if you really want to avoid confrontation and let him get away with it and since there seems to be no option left given that you've tried to be reasonable, send a letter to the storeowner. gunslingerpro's one to begin with ; not too alarmist or threatening, but a formal method should send the right message : "something is seriously wrong".
If he still refuses to step in to uphold common decency in his shop, send yours. It's an ultimatum, the last step before packing your stuff and not coming back. Because that's where it should come in the end if he has such poor business sense as to value his horrible friends more than his customers.
It bears repeating that giving in or not acting on your words (as in "For heaven's sake stop being such an obnoxious gak ! Hey, let's play some more together") at any moment is only going to weaken your position further.
The only way to resolve problems with people that simply will not act reasonably is just to distance yourself from them. Ignore him when he wants to play, explain why you are doing so when you can, and just leave the store if it gets out of hand.
It really IS that simple. If he cheats and is not fun to play against, don't play him, period. He might hang around and annoying you for awhile, but only because you've shown him that if he does that, you'll break down and play him. If you hold out, ignore him, ignore his mom, and don't give them what they want, they're not going to have a reason to keep coming back.
Will he whine/cry/complain? So what! Just say "No"
Will his mother complain? So what! Just say "No"
Will the store owner try to MAKE you play him? So what! Just say "No"
"We don't want to play you. Go away"..and keep repeating it whatever he says.
Should the mother or store owner address you with such an issue....simply don't respond to them, turn to the guy and repeat the above sentence.
But as said....there must be more to this. How many people does the "we" in "we don't enjoy playing with him" really include? Is it perhaps just you?
Why on Earth haven't you introduced a dice box with the attached rule of "Every roll must land in the dice box"??
gunslingerpro wrote:The above advice is probably best. Make it clear you're not willing to play with someone who is ruining it for everyone. But I've known people who were not able to confront such people in person (this may be you, though I assume nothing). In such a case, here is a more edited letter that may be considered helpful rather than criticizing:
Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
As a long time customer, I have enjoyed my time in your shop (under previous and current management) and it has been a very welcoming establishment. Sadly, it seems that this atmosphere is deteriorating. It has become apparent, to both myself and other loyal customers, that certain customers have become very unkind and inhospitable, to the point where our time spent in the store is no longer enjoyable and becoming less and less a viable option. We have attempted mediation, but it is becoming increasingly strenuous and cooperation seems unlikely. I'm sure with proper steps from ownership to prevent bullying and unfair behavior, any differences between various customers and players can be overcome, but until such time, I foresee an unfortunate drop in myself and other's patronage to your store.
Sincerely,
PistonHonda,
A Concerned Customer
As the old saying goes, more flies with honey than vinegar.
Good letter! This is much more appropriate and much more likely to work with the store owner.
As for the mother and child, you need to politely and firmly refuse to play with him. It really is that simple.
And then just sit there untill he lets you. Better bring a second army and tell him you are going to start playing another game untill he's ready to act his age. If he starts throwing things, then the owner should step up because there is now a chance for damaged to his property.
Ignore his mother, if she tries to act on his behalf say "I'm sorry but I was talking to your 19 year old adult son, if you insist on treating him like a child then that leaves us no choice but to treat him the same way"
As it has been said here already, you are all adults, no one can make you do anything you don' want to. Act like an adult and don't let yourslef get bullied.
Simply tell the kid you don't like playing him and than don't play with him. Just don't try to speak for a group. Each person will have to tell him. Think... Forest Gump... seats taken.
This is rude advice, but I don't like rogue gamers that are out to ruin fun either.
Don't play him, period. No one can force you to play with anyone, and though they may be irritating, you can ignore them and tell them to bugger off. As other have said, be firm, and stick to your guns.
Granted, I'd probably go off on the kid and the mother, but I have zero patience for individuals like that.
What about having someone else there as a "referee"? Youd both have to agree to abide by the refs decisions before the game started and just refuse to play him if he wont agree to it.
It sounds to me like maybe the kid (adult?) has something wrong with him? A 19 year old bringing his mother must have some underlying reason? Maybe try speaking to the mother and asking if there is anything you need to know?
I agree with the tactic of say no. You don't have to play with anyone you don't want to. Don't let a troll drive you away.
If he asks to play, say, "No, I do not want to play you. I won't play you."
You do not have to justify anything. If he pesters further, give the uncomfortable stare. Silence.
We have one of these as well. We call him "creepy guy". His mom drops him off (he's mid 20's or so) and leaves him all day. The guy in my situation doesn't play, doesn't paint, doesn't do anything hobby related. All he does is wander the store, harass the regulars, and step in to "help" shoppers.
You wouldn't believe how bad it is. I watched a couple weeks ago as he approached an 8-10 year old kid who was outside looking in the window. Kid's dad was a few feet away, kid had paused to look at the pretties. Creepy guy opened the door and said, "Hi little boy, come in and see what we do here," giving a long look with smirk on face. Kid's dad came right back, did pedo-alert kid-grab, and hurried off, obviously freaked out. I was expecting the police to show up.
I've tried refusal to engage, uncomfortable stare, and silence, when gaming or painting. This fool, however, continues to troll and pester. Finally I told him to leave me alone and mind his own business. Firm. Direct. No room for argument. He finally stormed off, flapping his arms like a 5 year old. But you know what? I don't care. I'm not there to babysit. Someone with the social graces of a 5 year old needs to not be dropped off in a store for strangers to mind. Especially when that social ineptitude scares off customers.
You have no obligation when someone is being a donkey-cave. Normal politeness will simply be used against you. But you have to be firm and leave no room for debate when politeness fails. You are not there to entertain socially inept trolls. Just do not engage or entertain the idiocy.
Seems to me that you have left it too long. I'm afraid to say that you got yourself into this situation by not standing your ground in the first instance.
As you have lost this encounter you are the one who has to find somewhere else to play.
If the store owner goes bust due to loosing your business then that's his own fault.
Worst I had was when I got to a tournament final and I instakilled a guys commander with the Nightbringer and he said he had Eternal Warrior, he didn't have his Dark Angels codex with him, so me being nice believed him... Until the last turn, the TO came over and asked why there was wound counters next to his commander, the guy got flustered and said "I thought he had Eternal Warrior"... Luckily it happened then as his commander was removed (not the terminator squad which would've been wiped out too) and I managed to just win the match and tournament on kill points.
Alternatively, maybe you should bring your own mom.
This is the best post in the thread.
I'll just skip the part where I tell you to man up because a few others have already done it. I'll chime in that if you do choose to send a "letter" rather than talking to the store owner face-to-face, don't make it passive-aggressive like your first letter or the one posted by Gunslingerpro. If he's enough of a problem to pass a note about, he's enough of a problem to name in the note and chronicle his behavior.
But again, the best behavior is to just ignore him no matter what.
happygolucky wrote:Also, please tell us what happens when you have tried out these ideas on dakka (this story has left me intrigued)
Also how many friends come to this store out of how many people attend the club every time you go?
If there is a lot of people who go, why doesn't he just go and annoy the other people?
As I have said, the whole don't play with him thing is tried every week. But it comes down to someone just saying all right, let's play a game, just to shut him up. He does it to other people. Like a civil war board game he was playing with our oldest member, the kid was playing as the south, as a simulation the south was at a disadvantage for naval power and war production. He insisted on altering the rules to make it equal to the union. He didn't get his way and dumped all his pieces all over the floor.
Being weak as an above poster said has nothing to do with it. Don't be a troll.
Gymnogyps wrote:
We have one of these as well. We call him "creepy guy".
Either this guy spends a good amount on product, or your store is run by the most inept person ever. Wow.
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Piston Honda wrote:As I have said, the whole don't play with him thing is tried every week. But it comes down to someone just saying all right, let's play a game, just to shut him up.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results - Albert Einstein
Take a step back for a moment and look at the situation from outside. You're letting (essentially) a child dictate terms to you and your friends rather than just saying "no."
It sounds like your store owner is a moron for not recognizing it as a problem, but you're acting incredibly childish over the situation. It's not hard to either tell the kid "no" or find a different place to play.
Edit: We had a guy at our FLGS that was a very poor sportsman. He'd literally accuse you of cooking your dice if you rolled well. He had a bad attitude and was verbally abusive during matches. Watching fun games as a spectator, he'd pick apart your unit selections (which were obviously not optimized) and offer unsolicited advice in a dismissive manner. Everyone eventually stopped playing him. He got the message and we see him but maybe once every 3 months for about 10 minutes these days. As a game store patron, you're part of a community, and communities often police themselves.
You keep hearing the same advice over and over. Get your group together, discuss the situation and agree not to play him. No one likes playing him? DON'T! I don't understand why this is so difficult.
He is a 19 year old man, acting like an 8 year old, and you are all encouraging him. This is not his mother's fault, this is not the store owner's fault...it is your group's fault. Simple as that. All of you need to man up and DO NOT PLAY HIM.
If there is something they are doing to physically stop you from playing a game with people other than him...tell us. But the story you have shared with us so far is of a gaming club that doesn't have the guts to stand up to a kid.
ÆΞØИ wrote:His mom can't force you guys to play with him.
No, he or she can't. But can annoy us until we do.
Still don't play with him, think, what is more annoying, that guy annoying you to play with him, or actually playing with him? I think actually playing with him would be more anoying...
Writing a letter is totally pathetic. Seriously, grow a pair and dont play with the kid. I dont see why people complain about things then do nothing about it. If someone annoys me, I wont play with them and we are both much happier for it. If he questions why, say "because i dont play with cheating douchebags". Dont lie, dont beat around the bush, tell him off and that will be that.
Again, agreeing with all the above posters, there is no reason you should be playing with this kid.
19 years old and still hanging around his mom?
Something is clearly very wrong.
Throwing tantrum and flinging pieces? After he threw all his civil war pieces on the floor, I can not see why you would ever EVER play another game, or even considering playing a game with him.
Think about how this kid would be dealt with in any other situation (where there's significantly less man-children around to be bullied..). Is there ANY other place where his behaviour would be tolerated?
How you and eleven other grown men (I assume?) are getting pushed around by a brat (who I honestly have trouble believing is 19) is absolutely mind-boggling.
Don't play against him. If his mom tries to annoy you into it, ignore her. Just play against the people you know.
Another solution - someone make a table at home, and simply stop playing there. Making a table isn't hard at all, and you might start to enjoy not playing at the shop. After all, you won't be resricted by open hours.
It's really not that simple as you make it out to be. We ignore him. We address our frustrations over and over to him and his mother. The only way we can actually get any gaming done is if one of us serves as the sacrificial pacifier. As stated earlier, the new shop owner does not help with the situation, if anything it is encouraged.
We do have game tables at home, but we also enjoy going down to the shop once a week as an outing.
Well, just stop letting him.
We've tried every time. You can't continue the game until he get his way or he will throw things, generally just dice.
And about my letter? What sucks about it? Condescending?
From a store owner who tells us to play nicely when we brought the issue up, being polite about it was the idea a week ago. And the week before that. And the week before that. And all those weeks before that too.
People have given you plenty of options. You have shot them all down.
So, yes your right, there is no way to resolve this. Only thing to do is quit gaming and find a new hobby...
Sekminara wrote:How you and eleven other grown men (I assume?) are getting pushed around by a brat (who I honestly have trouble believing is 19) is absolutely mind-boggling.
This is a good point, actually.
OP - how old are you and your friends?
If they're all 14 or something then it makes a little more sense.
CT GAMER wrote:People have given you plenty of options. You have shot them all down.
So, yes your right, there is no way to resolve this. Only thing to do is quit gaming and find a new hobby...
Agreed. The story about him throwing his pieces to the ground in a historical board game should be reason enough to NEVER let him near anyone else's gaming supplies ever again. If he stops by during your game, just simply agree ahead of time that EVERYONE calmly but collectively tell him that you don't want to include him due to his past behavior. If he starts his usual whining, simply stop the game and have EVERYONE stare at him in silence for minutes on end until he leaves. If he really does have the short attention span and need for constant excitement that your posts (directed at OP, not CT) indicate, he will soon be too bored to continue sitting at the table. If he comes back later when you're playing again, repeat the stoppage and silent treatment. Eventually he'll be trained through non-violent yet still confrontational means. You may lose out on a single session of weekly gaming but it will be worth it in the end. If he starts to resort to violence or vandalism, threaten to call the police loudly enough so that the store owner will hear. He has no right to ruin any of your property regardless of any mental disabilities he may or may not have.
Talking about the guy behind his back at the store or griping on the internet (while at the same time discounting the same suggestion given over and over) does nothing to help you and just makes you guys look like a group of catty junior high girls. Stand up for yourself consisently and the problem will solve itself.
... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.
Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C
People have given you plenty of options. You have shot them all down.
As I have said, they have been tried already. Silent treatment did work. Refusing didn't work. Not letting him play worked until he started moving terrain around and out models.
I asked the store owner if he had any learning disabilities (it was not apparent there was) The new owner said no. Either the owner is keeping the issue private (i have no issue with that) or the kid has anger and attention issues.
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Juvieus Kaine wrote:... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.
Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C
LOL.
Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"
here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Juvieus Kaine wrote:... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.
Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C
LOL.
Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"
here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"
Piston Honda wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Juvieus Kaine wrote:... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.
Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C
LOL.
Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"
here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"
You laugh but that's pretty much what I mean. You call him out on all the things he'd normally call you or your friends out on. I know you mentioned "wonky" dicerolls, so do the same to him. Any of those particular rolls he does, you call him out and get your friends behind you to do it. THe entire table vs one guy and his mother would work more in your favour and if he's smart enough he'll cotton on that what he's doing is what he's recieving. How you go about this is your call - subtely and he'll gain major frustration in the long run, or directly in the next game and he'll get very mad very fast.
People have given you plenty of options. You have shot them all down.
As I have said, they have been tried already. Silent treatment did work. Refusing didn't work. Not letting him play worked until he started moving terrain around and out models.
I asked the store owner if he had any learning disabilities (it was not apparent there was) The new owner said no. Either the owner is keeping the issue private (i have no issue with that) or the kid has anger and attention issues.
Well, that's completely unacceptable, he has no right to interfere in a game that he has no bearing on. Repeat behaviour of this sort should be grounds enough for the store owner to realise? Or his mother? Something seems very wrong about this situation.
You just simply don't play with him, don't acknowledge him. At all.
As for his mother, you are completely FREE to tell her that the smell bothers you, and you reserve the right to have her do something about it. If she doesn't just bring it up with the store owner. Certain hygiene standards are necessary in such a store.
Again, with the kid, ignore him. Don't play with him, don't even entertain the notion. If he is bothering you, ask him to stop or leave, those are his two options.
CT GAMER wrote:People have given you plenty of options. You have shot them all down.
So, yes your right, there is no way to resolve this. Only thing to do is quit gaming and find a new hobby...
Agreed. The story about him throwing his pieces to the ground in a historical board game should be reason enough to NEVER let him near anyone else's gaming supplies ever again. If he stops by during your game, just simply agree ahead of time that EVERYONE calmly but collectively tell him that you don't want to include him due to his past behavior. If he starts his usual whining, simply stop the game and have EVERYONE stare at him in silence for minutes on end until he leaves. If he really does have the short attention span and need for constant excitement that your posts (directed at OP, not CT) indicate, he will soon be too bored to continue sitting at the table. If he comes back later when you're playing again, repeat the stoppage and silent treatment. Eventually he'll be trained through non-violent yet still confrontational means. You may lose out on a single session of weekly gaming but it will be worth it in the end. If he starts to resort to violence or vandalism, threaten to call the police loudly enough so that the store owner will hear. He has no right to ruin any of your property regardless of any mental disabilities he may or may not have.
Talking about the guy behind his back at the store or griping on the internet (while at the same time discounting the same suggestion given over and over) does nothing to help you and just makes you guys look like a group of catty junior high girls. Stand up for yourself consisently and the problem will solve itself.
^^ This is some of the best advice I have seen.
I would just personally shun him and his mother. He comes into the store and tries to talk to your or your club members just explain to him that due to his past behavour's the club will not be interacting with him anymore. If he gets mad or his mother gets involved, explain to her that her son is not a enjoyable opponent for TTWG and then 'click the ignore button'. Trust me it DOES work. He will either get the idea and grow up or he will leave you guys alone. Is your club the main component of gaming down here? Is there alot of 'random casual play'? If all 12 of you ignore him, is there still enough people there to play games with or will he be ' all alone with his toys'?
How partial are you to this store? Is it the 'only game in town'? Are there other places you can play? What is the major malfunction? It's not like he's got a gun to your head. As long as you all stick together as a group there is no way the grusom twosome can win againsted all 12 of you. Worse case happening will be that if 'ignoring' him doesn't work then you need to switch stores. It sucks, I know but if it's making you want to quit TTWG then he's dictating to you how to have fun and you can't allow that. These kinds of people need to be punished and not encouraged, everytime someone plays againsted him he's encouraged to keep on doing the same thing. Make him someone elses problem.
As a social experiment, I would like to see someone go to a place where other adult men gather to play games, such as a bar with a happening pool or darts league, behave like the person described by the OP, and note the difference in reaction between that group of people and those who typically frequent gaming stores.
Monster Rain wrote:As a social experiment, I would like to see someone go to a place where other adult men gather to play games, such as a bar with a happening pool or darts league, behave like the person described by the OP, and note the difference in reaction between that group of people and those who typically frequent gaming stores.
Right hook and chucked out the door. That's how that would end.
Piston Honda wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Juvieus Kaine wrote:... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.
Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C
LOL.
Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"
here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"
You laugh but that's pretty much what I mean. You call him out on all the things he'd normally call you or your friends out on. I know you mentioned "wonky" dicerolls, so do the same to him. Any of those particular rolls he does, you call him out and get your friends behind you to do it. THe entire table vs one guy and his mother would work more in your favour and if he's smart enough he'll cotton on that what he's doing is what he's recieving. How you go about this is your call - subtely and he'll gain major frustration in the long run, or directly in the next game and he'll get very mad very fast.
I'm just going to make him look up every rule in the book and have him read it to me.
Act like I no longer know how to play the games anymore.
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Skippy wrote:
Piston Honda wrote:
Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"
here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"
Dont be stupid!.... You use a digital calliper for that, not a micrometer.
Piston Honda wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Juvieus Kaine wrote:... There's always Plan C - C for Counter-Troll. Okay it's pretty lame to stoop down to said teen's level but hey - if you treated him as he's treating you, he might think twice or leave. Question his dicerolls, question his units and rules, pick on the tiny things. If it drives him mad then it's working - course if he starts throwing things about make sure they're not yours.
Okay it's not the best advice to give really and the others are right but since you've pretty much dismissed them, there's always Plan C
LOL.
Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"
here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"
You laugh but that's pretty much what I mean. You call him out on all the things he'd normally call you or your friends out on. I know you mentioned "wonky" dicerolls, so do the same to him. Any of those particular rolls he does, you call him out and get your friends behind you to do it. THe entire table vs one guy and his mother would work more in your favour and if he's smart enough he'll cotton on that what he's doing is what he's recieving. How you go about this is your call - subtely and he'll gain major frustration in the long run, or directly in the next game and he'll get very mad very fast.
I'm just going to make him look up every rule in the book and have him read it to me.
Act like I no longer know how to play the games anymore.
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Skippy wrote:
Piston Honda wrote:
Are you sure your battleship really moved 7"
here is a micrometer, I want to make sure he did not move a fraction over 7"
Dont be stupid!.... You use a digital calliper for that, not a micrometer.
Brilliant!
No that is the wrong answer, DON'T play againsted him. If you try to beat a fool at his own game he will win because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Just ignore him. It worked when I worked at GW, the annoying people got the hint real fast. Same with FLGS i've played at. Either ' private pile' him (full metal jacket reference) him or shun him.
Castiel wrote:Right hook and chucked out the door. That's how that would end.
Amen.
OP, fighting fire with fire is nearly always a terrible idea. Especially as something is clearly wrong with the kid.
Look at the signs:
19 years old still being escorted by mother
Unable to control temper - (tossing game pieces)
Unaware that people want nothing to do with him - (your 'confrontations')
Unable to stop cheating, despite that he is aware that people know he is - (asking for unfair re-rolls)
Unwilling to be ignored - (moving terrain models around? Jesus.)
Honestly it looks as if the kid has asperger's and his mother is unaware/unwilling to admit it.
Get into a shouting match with a kid in that kind of condition, and you either get told, as the kid has no social reservations, where you do.
Or you lead to the kid having a breakdown, in which case you could/would be vulnerable to legal action (bullying). You would get it hard too as he probably does have a mental disorder (from your descriptions), and anybody with a brain (judges, attorneys) would wonder why you just didn't leave or ignore him.
Piston Honda wrote:As I have said, they have been tried already. Silent treatment did work. Refusing didn't work. Not letting him play worked until he started moving terrain around and out models.
He's not allowed to touch your models and terrain.
Don't let him.
Look, you've obviously got some confidence issues. You'd rather send a letter than deal with anything face to face, find it easier to give in and play than ignore the guy, and seem far more interested in the passive-aggressive options rather than simply standing up for yourself.
Really, theres no other advice we can give.
Don't let a kid push you around. End of story.
If the thought of all that confrontation and assertiveness on your part scares you, then I don't know what to say.
Talking about the guy behind his back at the store or griping on the internet (while at the same time discounting the same suggestion given over and over) does nothing to help you and just makes you guys look like a group of catty junior high girls. Stand up for yourself consisently and the problem will solve itself.
You´re absolutelly right and normally I would agree but what else can be done then such things if clearly 10 guys are to big pussies to be able to tell one single troublemaker and his WT mom to put on a weight and go jump into a lake?
As said, if the situation is as pathetic as this not even silent treatements and pretendings to not know the game will be anything other then lame excuses not to face up to something that is basically laughable.
Those solutions belong to some drama queen suffering from a princess syndrome.
Help everobody and your self asteem out and just ask a beefy friend to tag along and put the asshat in place for you once and for all.
Takes one hour and problem solved or you can keep beating around the bush being silent or pretending not to know the rules for a couple more weeks untill that too fails.
...one of you 10 guys do have a beefy friend right? Right? How about just a normal mentally stable friend who doesnt take crap or are everybody and their friends in that gaming community suffering from an effete geenepool?
Apparently he is a semi pro wrestler in one thread and the worlds biggest pussy in this one.
How come a beefy wrestler cannot stand up to some whiny 19yo kid in a gaming store?
So which one is it, are you a wrestler or a pathetic whimp...or maybe both but I´m having a hard time getting that to compute.
I skimmed through the arguments but I have to ask, is this kid all right upstairs? It sounds like he may have some mental issues. This may be the reason the store owner doesn't want to tell the kid to get lost and it may be the reason the mother is so adament that he gets a game in and goes with him to play with his toy soldiers. I've played table top games for over 15 years. I've only seen one person bring a parent along and that was because he had Aspergers (spelling?) and his dad picked up the game because of his son. When his son would lose his temper (and it did happen from time to time which is normal for someone with this issue) his dad would buy a soda for the guy playing him and would take his son outside to cool off. The kid was only talkative when a game was going on and outside of that would rarely speak but we all liked the kid (he was 15/16) and really had a knack for painting the soldiers.
Trust me - the store owner doesn't want Jenny McCarthy all over him for not being nice to people with Aspergers (spelling?).
You said he throws dice? does that mean your dice?
If some kid threw my dice over a crowded game floor I'd get in their face? my stuff? seriously? and the store owner sits there and watches it? I'd get in his face TOO! infact I mutiny the whole store!
lol jk but seriously if some kid threw my dice I'd have a big problem with him.
And for 4 I could phrase this nicely but I find that anger hits home with a lot more force:
4 Grow some balls and say " No. F**k you, I'm not going to re roll that die. Grow the f**k up. I come here for fun and to play a friendly game or 2, not to listen to some jumped up toddler throw a tantrum when he doesnt win. I'll play it your way now. lets see how you like it when I've using an army 2x as big as yours."
Bonus option (this woll become an increasingly attractive option): Batter the little brat
Since you have a place to play elsewhere but you like going out to the store for social reasons then I suggest the following:
When he comes in, ignore him. If he starts interferring with your game(s) then just pack up your stuff and make sure to tell the owner "thank you for today but I'm leaving now". Don't mention the bother and make sure everyone leaves at the same time. After this happens a few times the owner should catch onto why this is happening. If he doesn't do something after that then just permanently pack it in regarding that store. Don't raise a fuss or threaten the owner with loss of business just thank him and leave.
Dont feed the troll!
The guy is apparently a wrestler ffs
lol
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Piston Honda wrote:OK, get it out. It's fake, it gay because they are half naked.
Feel better about yourself?
good.
So does anyone like pro-wrestling or ever liked it? There was a time when people watched pro-wrestling and were not considered "losers". This was mainly the attitude era. Seems like most of those people have gone on to MMA/UFC stuff.
I've been watching pro wrestling since I was 3, I told my 1st grade teacher I wanted to be a wrestler. She laughed. But when all the other kids wanted to be an astronaut, or a doctor she does applaud them. Or how about that one weird kid who was going to have several occupations? A veterinarian ballet dancer. Or the Lawyer and pro-football player. Nothing wrong with that. But being a pro wrestler? Crazy.
Never understood why wrestling has had such a big stigma. It's either seen as gay, fake or promotes violence. I've always seen wrestling as one of the biggest contributors to American culture along with comic books, baseball, football.
Now my career path has changed (special education). But I still live part of my dream. I went to a wrestling school for about 2 years. I and I perform at indy shows from time to time. Last show I was at I went through a table and sliced my back on the metal leg and had 80-some stitches. There is nothing more satisfying than doing a stunt that gets the crowd to shout "Holy S#!t" or insult the fans and get them to boo and throw things at you and rip apart their stupid signs.
Piston Honda wrote:
I'm just going to make him look up every rule in the book and have him read it to me.
Act like I no longer know how to play the games anymore.
Up untill this point I was unsure, but now I am. Your store has three problems the first two, the nineteen year and the management, are brought up by you. The third and biggest problem is the people that play him.
As to learning difficulties, it seems apparent from all available evedience that he has learned that his behaviour is both welcome and supportted. Your groups conduct has done that.
Pyriel- wrote:Dont feed the troll!
The guy is apparently a wrestler ffs
lol
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Piston Honda wrote:OK, get it out. It's fake, it gay because they are half naked.
Feel better about yourself?
good.
So does anyone like pro-wrestling or ever liked it? There was a time when people watched pro-wrestling and were not considered "losers". This was mainly the attitude era. Seems like most of those people have gone on to MMA/UFC stuff.
I've been watching pro wrestling since I was 3, I told my 1st grade teacher I wanted to be a wrestler. She laughed. But when all the other kids wanted to be an astronaut, or a doctor she does applaud them. Or how about that one weird kid who was going to have several occupations? A veterinarian ballet dancer. Or the Lawyer and pro-football player. Nothing wrong with that. But being a pro wrestler? Crazy.
Never understood why wrestling has had such a big stigma. It's either seen as gay, fake or promotes violence. I've always seen wrestling as one of the biggest contributors to American culture along with comic books, baseball, football.
Now my career path has changed (special education). But I still live part of my dream. I went to a wrestling school for about 2 years. I and I perform at indy shows from time to time. Last show I was at I went through a table and sliced my back on the metal leg and had 80-some stitches. There is nothing more satisfying than doing a stunt that gets the crowd to shout "Holy S#!t" or insult the fans and get them to boo and throw things at you and rip apart their stupid signs.
The Crusader wrote:To be honest, I'd fill the little s**t in
Yeah of course big man, you'd beat a 19 year old kid up because he's a brat that throws dice around.
You don't need to get nasty, you don't need to use violence or bad language, or threaten the store management either verbally or through a letter. You simply refuse to play with this customer or engage him in conversation beyond the basics. If he attempts to handle your stuff you tell him that it's absolutely not acceptable and if the store owner refuses to let you play in peace without someone fiddling with stuff on the table you pack up and walk out.
If you can't decline to play a game with someone you don't even like then there's really no hope.
Remulus wrote: To the Op: if he moves your models and the terrain i think you can tell the workers at the flgs that and they will tell him to cut it out.
And if he doesnt listen they will kick him from the store.
You didn't really read it did you?
Also, an aside... To all the toughnuts, where are you in the world? Whenever I've been to a GW, LGS or tournament I've seen about two people who could throw down, and not just a set of dice.
adameast wrote:Also, an aside... To all the toughnuts, where are you in the world? Whenever I've been to a GW, LGS or tournament I've seen about two people who could throw down, and not just a set of dice.
The boys from Triple Play up in Lebanon, NH could tell a few stories, I think.
I hear Game Castle can get a little rough at times as well.
Remulus wrote: To the Op: if he moves your models and the terrain i think you can tell the workers at the flgs that and they will tell him to cut it out.
And if he doesnt listen they will kick him from the store.
You didn't really read it did you?
.
I did read it, I said for him to ignore the kid, but then the op said the guy would move the models/terrain while they were playing.
You could always stomp a mudhole in his ass, but that might get you kicked out and not him. Ok now seriously you could be firm like Kaldor said, which I think would work really well. He'll get annoyed with you and stop playing against you.
Or if you really think it's worth it you could always go on a different day, unless he spends everyday there.
I know of an occasion when some obnoxious big mouth got punched at an event. He lost a painting competition and was booing the winner and making all sorts of loud comments, but didn't realise the guy's adult son was standing very near by.
Justice done? Did the git deserve it? Well the police got involved and words like 'assault' started to be used in relation to the son's actions. I don't think it went much further, but that kind of hassle over toy soldiers isn't worth it.
Pyriel- wrote:Dont feed the troll!
The guy is apparently a wrestler ffs
lol
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Piston Honda wrote:OK, get it out. It's fake, it gay because they are half naked.
Feel better about yourself?
good.
So does anyone like pro-wrestling or ever liked it? There was a time when people watched pro-wrestling and were not considered "losers". This was mainly the attitude era. Seems like most of those people have gone on to MMA/UFC stuff.
I've been watching pro wrestling since I was 3, I told my 1st grade teacher I wanted to be a wrestler. She laughed. But when all the other kids wanted to be an astronaut, or a doctor she does applaud them. Or how about that one weird kid who was going to have several occupations? A veterinarian ballet dancer. Or the Lawyer and pro-football player. Nothing wrong with that. But being a pro wrestler? Crazy.
Never understood why wrestling has had such a big stigma. It's either seen as gay, fake or promotes violence. I've always seen wrestling as one of the biggest contributors to American culture along with comic books, baseball, football.
Now my career path has changed (special education). But I still live part of my dream. I went to a wrestling school for about 2 years. I and I perform at indy shows from time to time. Last show I was at I went through a table and sliced my back on the metal leg and had 80-some stitches. There is nothing more satisfying than doing a stunt that gets the crowd to shout "Holy S#!t" or insult the fans and get them to boo and throw things at you and rip apart their stupid signs.
Look up the link above.
Say what?!?
Any comments to this, Piston?
What do you want me to say? I like pro-wrestling. I broke my first bone jumping off my parents couch doing Macho Man's flying elbow drop. Yes I'm in the minority, but I have watched just about my entire life. Wanted to be a pro-wrestler growing up. Then when I did grow up had to look at something... well more practical. Most people I met who tried to make it big spent 20 years in it. Some weeks they get paid. Others they didn't. Sometimes they even got paid in hamburgers and cans of beer.
I have wrestled in a few indy shows, you may have seen them advertised in your area wrestling in high school gyms, aircraft hangars, American legions. Usually get 70-150 people. 300 if you are really really really lucky and in the right area. It's nothing like you see on TV. no fireworks, no titan-tron. Of the 5 shows I did I only got paid for 3 and was not worth the time. Still love wrestling, but glad I did not get involved with it as a profession.
Talking about the guy behind his back at the store or griping on the internet (while at the same time discounting the same suggestion given over and over) does nothing to help you and just makes you guys look like a group of catty junior high girls. Stand up for yourself consisently and the problem will solve itself.
You´re absolutelly right and normally I would agree but what else can be done then such things if clearly 10 guys are to big pussies to be able to tell one single troublemaker and his WT mom to put on a weight and go jump into a lake?
As said, if the situation is as pathetic as this not even silent treatements and pretendings to not know the game will be anything other then lame excuses not to face up to something that is basically laughable.
Those solutions belong to some drama queen suffering from a princess syndrome.
Help everobody and your self asteem out and just ask a beefy friend to tag along and put the asshat in place for you once and for all.
Takes one hour and problem solved or you can keep beating around the bush being silent or pretending not to know the rules for a couple more weeks untill that too fails.
...one of you 10 guys do have a beefy friend right? Right? How about just a normal mentally stable friend who doesnt take crap or are everybody and their friends in that gaming community suffering from an effete geenepool?
Apparently he is a semi pro wrestler in one thread and the worlds biggest pussy in this one.
How come a beefy wrestler cannot stand up to some whiny 19yo kid in a gaming store?
So which one is it, are you a wrestler or a pathetic whimp...or maybe both but I´m having a hard time getting that to compute.
Look at all his topics started. Stop feeding the trool everyone.
Apparently he is a semi pro wrestler in one thread and the worlds biggest pussy in this one.
How come a beefy wrestler cannot stand up to some whiny 19yo kid in a gaming store?
So which one is it, are you a wrestler or a pathetic whimp...or maybe both but I´m having a hard time getting that to compute.
What do you want me to do?
Deck him and get arrested?
Sorry but you are coming off as a troll. I can stand up to him. I have told him off and that he has to play with respect.
Just because he yells, manipulates rules is not an excuse to act physically. Sorry but there are laws in place. What do you want me to do?
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boyd wrote:I skimmed through the arguments but I have to ask, is this kid all right upstairs? It sounds like he may have some mental issues. This may be the reason the store owner doesn't want to tell the kid to get lost and it may be the reason the mother is so adament that he gets a game in and goes with him to play with his toy soldiers. I've played table top games for over 15 years. I've only seen one person bring a parent along and that was because he had Aspergers (spelling?) and his dad picked up the game because of his son. When his son would lose his temper (and it did happen from time to time which is normal for someone with this issue) his dad would buy a soda for the guy playing him and would take his son outside to cool off. The kid was only talkative when a game was going on and outside of that would rarely speak but we all liked the kid (he was 15/16) and really had a knack for painting the soldiers.
Trust me - the store owner doesn't want Jenny McCarthy all over him for not being nice to people with Aspergers (spelling?).
Earlier (somewhere in this thread) I asked the store owner if the kid had some mental issues. The store owner said no.
I just have to accept that as true, it's none of my business to get involved.
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inquisitorlewis wrote:
Look at all his topics started. Stop feeding the trool everyone.
Wow, that's an old shop. Sounds like a nice place.
Sounds tough. Maybe.... Wear ski masks, abduct the kid in the middle of the night and then beat him up with socks with rocks in them? Usually solves most problems.
Or you can give him some cement shoes as a late christmas present and let him play around in the river...
Honestly though. I have no opinion besides just not playing with him. Sorry if I'm missing something that wasn't in the first post. That's all I read.
I would make a video battle report so we can see the fun/problems/mum. Maybe it would force him to be semi respectable. If not you might have a Youtube smash vid "gamer brings his mammy to bully players"
Samus_aran115 wrote:Wow, that's an old shop. Sounds like a nice place.
Sounds tough. Maybe.... Wear ski masks, abduct the kid in the middle of the night and then beat him up with socks with rocks in them? Usually solves most problems.
Or you can give him some cement shoes as a late christmas present and let him play around in the river...
Honestly though. I have no opinion besides just not playing with him. Sorry if I'm missing something that wasn't in the first post. That's all I read.
I love the shop. It was built in 1908 Originally as a fire station.
It still has the fireman's pole (that's what it is called right?) ans some cast iron plates around the place.
The original owner bought it and sold board games out of it and comics, math professor by day awesome geek at night. Then it was "THE" place to play Dungeons and Dragons way back when before born.
Original owner sold the store lat year, retired and now lives in South Carolina to be closer to his daughter and grand children. Wish he never sold it. But family comes first.
boyd wrote:I skimmed through the arguments but I have to ask, is this kid all right upstairs? It sounds like he may have some mental issues. This may be the reason the store owner doesn't want to tell the kid to get lost and it may be the reason the mother is so adament that he gets a game in and goes with him to play with his toy soldiers. I've played table top games for over 15 years. I've only seen one person bring a parent along and that was because he had Aspergers (spelling?) and his dad picked up the game because of his son. When his son would lose his temper (and it did happen from time to time which is normal for someone with this issue) his dad would buy a soda for the guy playing him and would take his son outside to cool off. The kid was only talkative when a game was going on and outside of that would rarely speak but we all liked the kid (he was 15/16) and really had a knack for painting the soldiers.
Trust me - the store owner doesn't want Jenny McCarthy all over him for not being nice to people with Aspergers (spelling?).
Earlier (somewhere in this thread) I asked the store owner if the kid had some mental issues. The store owner said no.
I just have to accept that as true, it's none of my business to get involved.
Try asking the mother. It isn't the store owners place to tell you that kind of thing. Reading the thread, and having helped out with some kids on the Autism spectrum in high school, it does sound like he may have Aspergers.
Ok, something is seriously wrong in this thread...
How old are all of you?
If someone that isn't a personal friend, touches anything on my table without asking first, they will get to hear me tell them to stop it in a not to polite way the first time they do it, the second time will see them get a ruler to the hand that tries it.
If someone threw a dice during a game I would pack up and end the game right there.
If someone threw one of my models to the floor on purpose, he would get punched, no questions asked, no silent treatment or whatever other passive-agressive "solutions" you guys recomend. You damage someone elses property on purpose, you get a fist to the face (and no, this isn't bravado, I already did this to a guy who kept picking up my stuff without permission, I didn't punch him that time, but I pushed him up hard against a wall and held him there until he realised that it wasn't ok to do that)...
At least over here, the cops wouldn't even bat an eye at something like that and if the kid really is mentally challenged then the mother would have the pleasure of paying for the damage done to your models (after the mandatory 10+ years for the case to navigate our PoS court system).
Even if in your civilised countries this isn't an option, you can still physically restrain him when he starts throwing around your stuff, can't you? If the store owner then doesn't expell the guy from the store, YOU can threaten to call the police and sue for the damages that he is causing to your property.
But in all of this, I'm mind boggled that 12 adults are being bullied around like this...
Hey, I was reading some of the reasons you don't just ignore him, and I have a question...
Can you just bypass him completely and change your schedule somewhat, and have your outing to the game-shop a different day?
*Edit*
Oh, btw... we had a similar case (as in, someone we didn't want to play with...) at our shop with this one fellow.... we all resolved to say this: "Oh, I had a game schedule with [insert friend's name], he should be along shortly" This preserved feelings, etc... not that I cared about his feelings, but we wanted to keep the shop somewhat civil. Eventually he got the hint.
I agree that the only way to deal with it is to refuse to play him, but i do feel for you, these kinds of situations are very awkward. Dont be afraid to pack up and walk out of the store if he starts anything.
Id be very disappointed by the shop owner in your position, sounds like he doesn't really give a s***. If he tipped a board games up all over the floor he should have been asked to leave the store.
DeathReaper wrote:Seriously, just tell him you have your games already set up for the day, and do not play him.
if he touches your stuff, that is unacceptable, and alert him that his behavior will not be tolerated.
If he will not, bring it up to the owner.
If he manipulates the terrain on the table, ask him to leave the terrain alone.
If he will not, bring it up to the owner.
If he does nothing, leave and find somewhere else to play.
This is the best solution to your problem.
You claim to have refused to play him, but then said that one of you eventually gives in. Saying "no" to the kid for a little while before giving in only encourages him to keep at it until you give up.
If the owner has no issue with the kid repeatedly touching or moving models that he shouldn't be, and doesn't see anything wrong with the kid throwing models, why is it that you want to play there?
Castiel wrote:Try asking the mother. It isn't the store owners place to tell you that kind of thing. Reading the thread, and having helped out with some kids on the Autism spectrum in high school, it does sound like he may have Aspergers.
Er, no it doesn't.
I have what used to be called Asperger's but they are mostly calling it "autistic spectrum disorder" now.
I am not a D-bag.
This guy just sounds like a badly behaved, entitled, brat.
I do have an idea of what the OP could do, not passive-aggressive, not violent but definitely very funny,
Play him and loose - massively.
I think if you tried your hardest you could throw a 2000 point game in 20 minutes.
Do it in the funniest way possible, do a battle report of it, I'd read it.
Build a list full of the least useful units in your codex.
Your turn 1 -
Movement phase - move all your guys out of cover and closer to the enemy.
Shooting phase - don't shoot.
Assault phase - charge your stuff towards (but not into combat with) his guys.
His turn 1 -
Moves
Shoots - don't bother taking armour saves, nothing says you have to.
Assaults - don't bother again.
Well done fella, you win. I'll play someone else next.
Castiel wrote:Try asking the mother. It isn't the store owners place to tell you that kind of thing. Reading the thread, and having helped out with some kids on the Autism spectrum in high school, it does sound like he may have Aspergers.
Er, no it doesn't.
I have what used to be called Asperger's but they are mostly calling it "autistic spectrum disorder" now.
I am not a D-bag.
This guy just sounds like a badly behaved, entitled, brat.
I never said all people with it were, that is not what I meant at all.
I'm not that familiar with the different parts of the Autism spectrum, so I may have it wrong with Aspergers, but it does sound like some of the things that one of the kids I helped with did. He was constantly seeking attention, and would cheat at games and need time to cool off when things didn't go his way.
This sound familiar to this guys behaviour, and the fact that he has his mother with him at 19 years of age further suggests that he may have some kind of autism or something else.
Kaldor wrote:Your letter sucks. Don't send it, it will have the opposite to the desired effect.
Look, this guy comes down to the store and makes things uncomfortable, right? He argues about dice rolls and gets his mum to come down and help him out.
Well, just stop letting him.
You're a grown man. If he wants a dice to be re-rolled simply say "No, I won't do that, the dice is flat and the result is fair" and then deal with the fallout. He might throw a tantrum and start screaming and yelling, holding his breath and stamping his feet, but so what?
Be firm.
All of this! Could not have said it better myself!
Okay..... Piston Honda.... Everyone agrees that you and your whole group need to agree not to talk to this guy, not to play a game with this guy, just ignore him.
So, do that for 2 weeks and let us know how it went. It's going to be tough, he's going to make a complete a$$ of himself, but keep quiet. He's going to get more upset, but don't let it upset you. Understand that you are winning, and the more upset he gets in the store, the more you win. Don't say a word! Not even that last parting shot that you are going to want to take.
I say it again, if you keep quiet, you WIN! Explain it to your group, whoever talks to him first loses! End of story.
If you say anything to him, you will yank defeat out of the jaws of victory, so don't do it.
If you do anything other than ignoring him for 2 weeks, there is absolutely nothing that can be done to help you, so all of us here will just ignore this thread. (Guys, we have to help this guy! Understand? If any of us breaks down and starts responding to his posts, he won't learn anything).
The reason that you can't break down and talk to him, (and god forbid play a game with him!) is every interaction he has with you, he is learning something. If he comes into the store and you don't talk to him, he asks for a game and you ignore him, he starts throwing a fit and screaming, and you don't react at all, then he will learn that doesn't work. Because of all the crap you've put up with already, the first few times are going to be rough because he has learned that you will respond. It's going to take a few times for him to un-learn that. That means if anyone folds on you, it will reinforce his behavior. He will learn that throwing dice, models, terrain, his own feces, whatever, actually works and that is what he will continue to do.
Don't fall for it.
So, Piston Honda, let us know you are going to do this and then don't even read the posts here for 2 weeks, or until the guy starts leaving you alone, whichever is shorter.
Everyone else, talk amongst yourselves, but Piston Honda is going to be absent for 2 weeks to try out our idea. Be strong for him!
What you need to do?
Seriously man? Need I spell it out for you or are you able to actually read your own thread and the advice contained within it?
Let me ask you something, what would you do if the guy when lpaying against you, got a mental breakdown and grabbed a fistfull of YOUR models and threw them as hard as he could on the floor?
Would you still keep doing your passive pretending games or would you appologize to him or just walk away or what?
Castiel wrote:Try asking the mother. It isn't the store owners place to tell you that kind of thing. Reading the thread, and having helped out with some kids on the Autism spectrum in high school, it does sound like he may have Aspergers.
Er, no it doesn't.
I have what used to be called Asperger's but they are mostly calling it "autistic spectrum disorder" now.
I am not a D-bag.
This guy just sounds like a badly behaved, entitled, brat.
I never said all people with it were, that is not what I meant at all.
I'm not that familiar with the different parts of the Autism spectrum, so I may have it wrong with Aspergers, but it does sound like some of the things that one of the kids I helped with did. He was constantly seeking attention, and would cheat at games and need time to cool off when things didn't go his way.
This sound familiar to this guys behaviour, and the fact that he has his mother with him at 19 years of age further suggests that he may have some kind of autism or something else.
I agree as the fact that a family member needs to go with him to the shop tells me that he must have something on the autism spectrum. If he was a brat, more than likely, his parents would have dropped him off to get away from them. The fact they stayed with him at the shop is more indicative that there is something else going on.
Another thing, its called a spectrum - there will be people with the same disorder who will not have the same characteristics to the same degree. You can only go with what you've experienced. We had a kid with Aspergers in our group and that was how he acted from time to time. He would almost get to the point he would grab the other players mini in anger. His dad was always there to diffuse the situation before it got too bad. If it was a small temper tantrum, he would go outside for about 5-10 minutes. If it was really bad, his dad would take him home. The kid was about 15-16. Without parental supervision, the kid would have gotten into a fight or broken stuff in the shop. He was a nice kid and eventually over 2 years or so I think that he got better and was able to interact with everyone as it took him a while to get familiar with the entire group. But that is what sucks about the disorder. The people who have it are usually highly intelligent but they have a few quirks that make them odd. Usually they don't like contact with others and get upset when something doesn't go their way. I know two people with the disorder from college and I can attest that they were both smarter than me but they lacked any sort of people skills. One has a Doctorate in Electrical Engineering from the Florida Institute of Technology and the other has a Masters Degree in Taxation. They were both highly technical people but lacked the ability to effectively communicate their ideas.
Ignoring him, and saying "no", seems to be the best answer.
I would also even go to the extent and say that you don't bother setting up anything, keep it tucked away, before he shows up. So when he does and he gets "bratty" about your group saying no, he won't have your stuff to toss. If he grabs the nearest thing, it might be store property.
Just stand up to them and say "no". Don't cave, don't reason, just refuse.
To the two guys who quoted me regarding autism and d-baggery I apologise.
I was not trying to offend but there is a point to be ade.
Asperger's is a perceptual disorder.
Due to the nature of it and the fact that nobody is a perfect parent there is a correlation between having it and being a nob.
There is not, however, a causation.
Having Asperger's does not make you like that.
It can make your parents treat you differently in development which can lead to the behavioural problems you describe.
The man is still responsible for his behaviour and the fact that he brings his mother along with him is either:
A, more likely to be psychological (probably caused by her) than physiological or neurological.
or
B, because the new shop owner is tapping her (which might explain the preferential treatment too).
rob-or-ross wrote:To the two guys who quoted me regarding autism and d-baggery I apologise.
I was not trying to offend but there is a point to be ade.
Asperger's is a perceptual disorder.
Due to the nature of it and the fact that nobody is a perfect parent there is a correlation between having it and being a nob.
There is not, however, a causation.
Having Asperger's does not make you like that.
It can make your parents treat you differently in development which can lead to the behavioural problems you describe.
The man is still responsible for his behaviour and the fact that he brings his mother along with him is either:
A, more likely to be psychological (probably caused by her) than physiological or neurological.
or
B, because the new shop owner is tapping her (which might explain the preferential treatment too).
Lulz thank you. Having a disorder is not an excuse to inflict it on others. If he has a disorder, he should state it. He should also explain he might react in an odd manner, so what to expect, and also how he will mitigate his own negative actions/behavior. If he is incapable of this, and incapable of interacting in a social setting, then he should not be put in such a setting.
So the utter lack of discussion of a disorder or disability makes it likely this kid is just a spoiled brat. rob-or-ross has a more likely explanation in his points A and B above. Assuming a d-bag is on the autism spectrum simply due to d-baggery is a disservice to those who actually are. People are more than willing to aid and forgive when not taken advantage of. Assuming the trappings of a mental disorder to get away with being a d-bag is absolutely, 100%, Barnum T Bailey level, taking advantage of the kindness of people.
He throws dice eh? Well If I were you, I'd punch him square in the face if one of those dice hit my figures, even if it did not damage it. Or if you dont want to get charged with assualt. Just yell at him, not scream, but yell. Raise your voice in a matter where everyone stops and stairs, It will embarsse him and make him look like an utter dill weed. And if the store owner does not like it tell him "Tough nuts, learn how to run a store and when to kick tards out when they act like a tosser
Seriously though, find/create a new store. We had a local gamer open a store due to not liking the policies of another local store, and the new store has had nothing but success ever since.
adameast wrote:Also, an aside... To all the toughnuts, where are you in the world? Whenever I've been to a GW, LGS or tournament I've seen about two people who could throw down, and not just a set of dice.
The boys from Triple Play up in Lebanon, NH could tell a few stories, I think.
I hear Game Castle can get a little rough at times as well.
The Game Castle (I assume in Londonderry NH by the reference to Lebanon NH) is our FLGS and I have never had a major a problem with any one there, but we are there maybe 4 times a month, mostly for tournaments. Our group floats between houses for gaming.
underestimate the lovin of a 500lb gorilla! 
