Hey guys and gals!

So, I've been lurking for a long time and read SOOOO many threads about Finecast (Failcast. Failco$t. Failcrapst ETC).

But, I don't think I've seen one that says anything positive about Finecast, and that's a real danm shame tbh.
Now, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm sure everyone that has beef about Finecast has their reasons, so I'm here to try and balance it a bit.

Now, before I go on please read this:

LEAVE YOUR HATE OUT OF THIS THREAD.

If you wanna hate, go find one of the 10m threads that already exist bashing on Finecast.
As for the rest of you...

I've bought the following 5 models:

Finecast Librarian in Terminator armour - Flawless.
Finecast Commissar - One of the eyes seemed a bit O.o but tbh, it looks fantastic.
Finecast Chaplain with JC - Again, actually flawless.
Finecast Emperors Champion - No problems anywhere, and this was the first FC I bought the same week Finecast was released.
Finecast Astorath the Grim - The wings were pretty shoddy... So shoddy that I was actually gunna take him back but never got around to it, so I've taken him and converted him. Gunna give him a set of Scourge wings and bish-bash-bosh job done ^-^

So, yeah.
I'm wondering who else is actually genuinely impressed with Finecast?


As a note: I'm gunna address the fact I have a shoddy Astorath model, because I'm sure at least 1 person will argue "you say FC is good, but you have a bad cast? Contradiction MUCH?" Well no, not at all. The GW staff at my store are some of the most helpful, professional and pleasant people I've ever had the courtesy to meet and I know for a fact, each one of them would replace the model in a heartbeat and likely even let me keep the miscast. Several times now I've gone down there with an issue with glue, brushes and files and each time they've handed me a replacement over the till with no questions asked. Two of those times, I didn't even need the product in question!

This is relevant because I believe the FC rage also stems partly from QC and customer service. It's more of an experience, then just a problem with one specific thing. Anyhow, the fact is, yes, it was miscast and yes I kept it. That was my choice and I stand by it.

Nice to see a positive report. This still won't end well,though...-

My 25th anniversary model was flawless but I think people will always make more noise about the negatives than the positives

I enjoy Finecast for converting.

It's fragile, but it's much easier to convert with than metal ever was.

TECHMARINES HOOOOOOO!

As a material, it's got its advantages - Light, easy to glue, easy enough to work. Very cheap to purchase (material wise), and relatively quick to produce (fast setting resin, centrifugal pressurisation of mould). Detail retention is good. Forgeworld use the same material, and the same technique for some models, which from the accounts I've heard are usually pretty good.

There are disadvantages too of course (QA aside, which I honestly believe is a factor of the scale of production being attempted). Notably the material can't self-support top-heavy desings (a la Mangler Squigs). Garfy's recently done a FW Hierophant titan (a design which also can't self-support properly, exhibiting a similar design flaw), and reinforced the legs using an excellent method (check out Tale of Painters blog for details). This isn't a particular problem with the material, but it's something a modeller should be aware of - certain designs in some materials will require some quite advanced techniques to get the best out of them.

All this said I had a reasonable time with my Emperor's Champion. It came out OK - some warping on the sword, but the detail retention was nice, and it was pretty easy to clean up.

But am I impressed? No. Not really. Suitable for some things, but not for a whole range of miniatures. Forgeworld have it right (in terms of their material choices for what models), and I'm constantly impressed by them. The hierophant is a special case - I couldn't really suggest another way of casting that beast other than how it has been done - the reinforcement work there is a definite requirement of the design.

Winterdyne, I'm curious as to why you bought the Emperor's Champion in Finecast. The advantage I see in Finecast is that it's light which makes it excellent for larger figures like monsters and dragons.

But as for the smaller figures I can't see the benefit. With new releases you don't have the choice, but why buy a figure in Finecast when you have the option of getting it cheaper and in metal?

I'm not really sure what good a thread does that purposely only allows positives (or negatives) about a product to be discussed, but here goes.

I've got a dark elf assassin and supreme sorceress that both were flawless. I like the weight of the material, and I also do not really like working with metal figures. I really would like to see GW get their process for casting in this material down to an acceptable level failures to good casts.

I have unfortunately had horrible luck with finecast necrons, getting five out of five bad purchases. With that being said the OP's failure rate is a mere 20%, much better than my 71% failure rate.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Winterdyne, I'm curious as to why you bought the Emperor's Champion in Finecast. The advantage I see in Finecast is that it's light which makes it excellent for larger figures like monsters and dragons.

But as for the smaller figures I can't see the benefit. With new releases you don't have the choice, but why buy a figure in Finecast when you have the option of getting it cheaper and in metal?

Can't speak for Winterdyne but I have myself waited with purchases if it was rumored that a metal model (even single model blisters) would be "finecasted". And I have done that because I really detest metal as a material.

I love the weight of the model in metal, but that's just about it. Metal models chips a lot more than finecast, it is very annoying to assemble - not only gluing it, but also pinning - and as the final straw metal is very hard to do anything in terms of conversions with, where finecast is much easier to bend, cut and combine with other plastic bitz.

All in all I love finecast, and while there of course are a lot of problems with quality control, but at least GW is fine about returns.


Cheers

Actually, I was just blowing the refund from Captain Stern number 9 on a model a client had requested. I also wanted to see what a *decent* Finecast model was like. Wasn't perfect, but certainly wasn't terrible. If they were all that quality, they'd be OK value at about 60-70% of the price. The metal version had been retired, and I'd have to go scouring eBay or discount providers to get one. I prefer in general to buy at Warhammer World, where I can get what I need exactly when I need it. Time is a bit more valuable than a slight discount to me.

To be honest, large monsters are one of the designs where the Finecast material works less well - the material is just too 'saggy' for overloaded joins (dragon wings, long extended necks). A firmer resin is needed for those, or the reinforcement technique I mentioned earlier would need to come into play.

Smaller, fiddlier things are exactly where I do see the benefit - a particular miniature that would work brilliantly in Finecast (assuming it cast properly) is Urien Rackarth. The arms attaching to his back were extremely frustrating in metal - too thin to pin easily, and too heavy to set on with superglue quickly. The only downside is the supporting worms for the bulk of the miniature are a point where it could sag if warmed, and I don't think they'd be too easy to reinforce.

Mixed media kits are probably what I'd think are the 'best case' solution for all this - the fiddly parts could be provided in resin, and the load-critical parts in metal. There'd be a minor saving in material costs (but some!) and the consumer would get the advantages the new material offers. coupled with a design that actually works. The downside is that a model would then require several moulds and production runs to actually be produced, ramping the cost to produce up. So it won't happen.

Edit: And for those who keep complaining about metal models getting chipped - what are you guys *doing* to them? I've got pristine models that were gamed with for years... Clean, prime, paint, gloss, matt. And don't let the spongmonkeys at the LGS touch your minis.

At last, a positive Finecast thread! And there was much rejoicing!

Myself, I love Finecast, mainly because I hate metal. So much easier to put together. Also, I love the easy convertability of Finecast, as it's so lovely and soft that you can cut it up easily.

believe it or not I do like fine cast, just not how GW does it. as a medium its great to work with and far better than metal, painting it isn't too much of an issue so long as you do it right. its just too bad that GW cant really cast to save their lives. if I could buy finecast without the fear of miscasts then I would be all over it but unfortunatly GW's quality controll is gak

I've had a number of really well cast finecast models, and a minority of really messed up ones that I had to replace. Customer service has always been easy to work with in that regard.

I'll admit to a fair bit of cursing when my necron overlord had a staff snap with almost no pressure applied.

I think for me the main advantage of finecast is lack of paint chipping. With metal models no matter how much varnish I apply it seems like the painted models always continue to chip their paintwork. I hate that more than anything else finecast throws at me since it's really hard to fix a chipped up paint job and have the colors flow through properly.

Hopefully all the extra profit gw is raking in by upping the price on finecast will be well spent on making all the character/one off kits into plastic. That would make it all worthwhile.

I'll throw my couple cents into it:

I bought the following Finecast minis;

Urien Rakarth - actually a replacement for a metal when I called GW due to a mispacked blister. Pretty perfect cast, lots of flash between the pieces, but its wafer thin and should be an easy clean up. The metal fiddly arms were a PITA. This should be easier.

Huron Blackheart - tough one to check in finecast. Being hit with a melta leaves all kinds of problems. This one is actually in excellent shape too. No voids, damaged parts, or holes.

Isabella Von Carstein - very nice model. Still in the blister, but looks perfect from what I can see.

I haven't assembled any of them yet, waiting to get around to (or back to) the appropriate army.

Well I have 2 apostate preachers of Nurgle (I am pretty sure they are finecast, though they were painted when I got them) They look great, I really like them. Only issue I had was one of the preachers' chainsword was a little bent. So I snapped it and re glued it straight Also I have seen many other finecast models at my LGS. A little bubble here and there but no problem at all! I find people whining the most about whether they want to keep the model as is or want to convert it!

Benamint wrote:Well I have 2 apostate preachers of Nurgle (I am pretty sure they are finecast, though they were painted when I got them) They look great, I really like them. Only issue I had was one of the preachers' chainsword was a little bent. So I snapped it and re glued it straight Also I have seen many other finecast models at my LGS. A little bubble here and there but no problem at all! I find people whining the most about whether they want to keep the model as is or want to convert it!

The apostate preacher is a Forgeworld model. Also resin, but different from Finecast.

My only Finecast to date is the 25th anniversary model, and it's in great shape. There's a little bubble under the cuff of one leg, and three pinholes in one of the armor joints. Nothing that 10 seconds with Liquid Green Stuff can't fix.

The apostate preacher is a Forgeworld model. Also resin, but different from Finecast.

Thanks, I knew that with GW they have something like "a finely detailed resin cast kit" and then has the Citadel Finecast tag on it. My bad I just figured 40k resin mini, must be finecast

Brother SRM wrote:

Benamint wrote:Well I have 2 apostate preachers of Nurgle (I am pretty sure they are finecast, though they were painted when I got them) They look great, I really like them. Only issue I had was one of the preachers' chainsword was a little bent. So I snapped it and re glued it straight Also I have seen many other finecast models at my LGS. A little bubble here and there but no problem at all! I find people whining the most about whether they want to keep the model as is or want to convert it!

The apostate preacher is a Forgeworld model. Also resin, but different from Finecast.

My only Finecast to date is the 25th anniversary model, and it's in great shape. There's a little bubble under the cuff of one leg, and three pinholes in one of the armor joints. Nothing that 10 seconds with Liquid Green Stuff can't fix.

that reminded me about another problem that I have with GW, rather than address a problem themselves, they bring out a product to fix their own minis :3 that being said liquid GS has been a god send for my GS work

I'm going to break a self imposed restriction on posting in Finecast threads.

The reason I don't post in Finecast threads is because these are obviously my opinions, and it gets old when people
a) call me a White Knight (considering I quit originally because of issues with a GW model, this is hilarious)
b) insist that when I express my opinions, I'm obviously saying everyone should share my opinions

But, here we go.

Gorlack wrote:Can't speak for Winterdyne but I have myself waited with purchases if it was rumored that a metal model (even single model blisters) would be "finecasted". And I have done that because I really detest metal as a material.

I'm the same. One of the reasons I lost interest in wargaming about early 4th edition was metal models. I just don't like working with metal. I suffered through it. The model that pushed me over the edge was the metal Venerable Dreadnought. It had a pipe in its shoulder that was about 2cm in diameter. It was terrible, and I didn't have any tools that could smooth it down. At that point, I simply said 'feth it' and stopped playing.

When I got back into 40k, I was having a lot of fun with the plastics again, and avoided the GW metal Hive Tyrant by going with a FW Tyrant. I was about to start buying Zoanthropes and Hive guard, knowing I'd have to think of ways to keep the Zoanthropes standing and spend a long time pinning the Hive Guard, when I heard whispers of GW moving to resin, so I held off. Boy am I glad I did.

First day of Finecasts release, I grabbed a Zoanthrope. Went together fine. Had a tiny airbubble the size of a pinprick on the carapace. Grabbed a second Zoanthrope after that, which had a hideous amount of flash. Once the flash was cleaned off, no issues. Then I grabbed a pair of Hive Guard. No issues (though I accidentally broke a tongue off one myself).

Then I grabbed a Venomthrope. Man. Chimneys didn't line up when glued to the carapace (though I've since learned all Venomthropes have this, and did in metal as well), and miscast under the head. I decided to fix these issues myself, since I wanted some practice fixing resin. For Christmas, I got a Varghulf. Gigantic airbubble in the shoulder. So big, that airbubble had its own airbubbles. Called, got a replacement. Airbubbles in the fur on its back (I only noticed because some grooves were shiny). I really didn't care enough to get another replacement - when its painted, it won't be seen.

I still work with metal models. Heck, I'm playing Infinity which is all metal models. But the chance to have models in resin? I'll take it, even if it means I have to fix the occasional model, so I don't need lead weights on the bases of top heavy models, or need to pin simple joins like arms, or need a razorsaw to do a simple conversion like a head swap. I've had my issues with Finecast, like everyone else. I honestly don't believe people who say they've bought Finecast and never had a flaw on a model. But I'm willing to ride it out, due to my dislike of metal models. When they get it right, the model is fantastic, glues together perfectly, and doesn't need pinning. When they get it wrong, I'll now simply get replacements until they get it right.

Only finecast model I own is a succubus from DE. Besides for a bent up staff, it is flawless. The only problem I have is that I left it in a position where the staff has been bent again, but nothing hot water cant fix.

I have a techmarine and four servitors, two Librarians and 2 haemonculi. All of which have been perfect. I have seen a couple of models in blisters with small flaws and I've seen one man in the local GW be encouraged to fix a small hole with liquid greenstuff and another have a seriously defective model replaced immediately. I don't buy too many non plastic models but I'm not aware that anyone I regularly play against has had more than very minor issues with Finecast. I'm quite certain the major issues exist, I'm not certain that they're as widespread (in the UK at least) as Dakka forums would lead one to believe.

I don't especially like finecast as the kits come in fewer parts than the plastics (which makes for faster assembly but sometimes harder painting I find) and the thin parts are quite easily damaged. But I do prefer it to metal and I can live with it though I would prefer just plastics in an ideal world.

Got crowe and a runesmith in finecast, perfect cast, no bends, all good. Thank god for that, got next to no modelling skill.

Huron Blackheart and an Archon. Very good, no mismoulds.

Brother Axel wrote:
This is relevant because I believe the FC rage also stems partly from QC and customer service. It's more of an experience, then just a problem with one specific thing. Anyhow, the fact is, yes, it was miscast and yes I kept it. That was my choice and I stand by it.

I feel anyone coming to the thread should read this bit first. Meanwhile, on Planet Earth.....

So far I have bought these in finecast:

Shadowseer: Perfect

Cockatrice: Perfect

2 Painboys: 1 Perfect, the other had a bit of stuff on his right shoulderpad but that's ok because it makes it look like his set fire to himself and that fits with the fluff.

Imotekh the Stormlord: Little bit of a bent staff, just had to bend it back into place, no big deal.

All in all, I'm pretty pleased with it so far.

I bought ten of the 25th Anniversary figures. All had problems but after sorting out the good from the bad, I had five full boxes of really good (but perhaps not "flawless") figures and five that got sent back to GW. Now they have replaced those figures and looking through them I have only three pieces (out of five full boxes) that need to be returned. I'd prefer that everything was perfect when GW sent me replacements but not unrealisticly optimistic given what other people have stated previously. Once these three pieces are replaced, I'll have ten complete and nearly perfect kits.

The only complaint I have is the time it's taking to get this done. :/

I have been collecting Citadel miniatures since I bought the C1 and C2 minis on release, not even knowing what they were, I just liked them. In all that time I have had miss casts on occasion, especially with mould slippage and areas filling in as the moulds got old, this has always been a problem with Citadel minis when a change in material or technology has occurred. This is a niche pastime and always has been, casting has always improved over time and I'm sure it will with finecast. As said earlier I'm sure all this hate is to do with the 'hard sell' and purchase experience rather than the product.
Just my pennies worth.

I dont really give a stuff about finecast. The quality looks good, except for when it doesnt. I took a peek in the back of a few blisters the other day, and all i saw was some grit on the back of a leg. It looked like a pain but not a deal breaker, as i have experience with spartan games early dindrenzi battleship (OH DEAR GOD WHY)

The deal breaker is that they have priced me out of the hobby, and that the only new miniture in 40k that interests me at all is the GDUK miniature, which as it is only being sold at the event (meaning you cant cheat and get one when you buy your ticket) i am going to have to pay absurd ebay prices for.

Cheers GW.

(But yeah, i dont see an overwhelming problem with finecast, and i am sure that they will have ironed out all the issues in 2 price rises time)

Could you upload a pic of the commissar with the funny eyes? would be interesting to see!

I once got a box of DE Wracks and two of them were prefectly cast

I've had quite a lot of bad experiences, but thanks to how great GW have been replacing them I don't mind that much. When you do have a bubble-free, well cast model, finecast is infinitely easier to work with than metal was. I think their spiel about FC being so much more finely detailed was over exagerated, but simply for ease of assembly/conversion I prefer it as a material.

If GW can work out any remaining casting issues, and are still happy to exchange any faulty casts that I may end up with in the meantime, I see the change as an improvement.

I've still not bought one thanks to all the bad press, but I was checking out the Calgar and Honour Guard they had on the table and they looked brilliant, I have the metal ones and I would definitely prefer the FC ones, I like the light weight feel and the fact their frigging hands wouldn't snap off every time I pick them up.

I checked some blisters and they looked good as well. I reckon I will break and finally pick that Termie Libby up this weekend.

I'm glad to see so many people that have had a good run of luck with the FC stuff!

Unfortunately, The Great Wolf, I did a head-swap on him yesterday (ironic, right?).
I've always liked the model, but the head wasn't what I was going for as I'm using the model as an Imperial Officer of some sort in my Inquisitorial Retinue. I did manage to salvage his hat though

That's the amazing thing about Finecast. I'm currently looking at a Commissars hat that I've cut from a model that is ready to be used however I'd like. As pretty much 90% of my stuff is kit-bashed or converted in some form, the flexibility of FC is a huge win for me, as it allows me to really spice my models up with nice resin bits.
I think GW dropped the ball a little bit when they didn't really advertise the conversion and modification opportunities of FC.

Gorechild wrote:I think their spiel about FC being so much more finely detailed was over exagerated, but simply for ease of assembly/conversion I prefer it as a material.

I was pretty disappointed when they took that route to hype the launch. There's other, actually noticeable improvments they could have concentrated on, particularly, like you said, ease of assembly and conversion. But I guess it's hard making an entire White Dwarf issue around that concept.

Got a Sorcerer of Tzeench as a test model to see if the woes where held true. It didn't this time, the model came together easily, came with a lovely detailed base. Painted and shelved as I don't play Warriors.

I run a three strike policy. In the summer i'm going to order some Haradrim Commanders. That will be the second swing. I'll get a Doom Bull as well. That can be the third test.

I've got a few FC models. In order of purchase.

DE Sslyth - Great cast, a couple of minor air bubbles I shot some superglue into, and a bent gun sheathe arm. I decided to replace a few of the arms with stuff from the plastic Kalabite set. Looks great. Overall happiness 4.5/5

DE Lamia - Another great cast. Sheathe is a little warped. Going to use the hot water one it. Overall happiness 4.5/5

DE Lelith Hesperax - Goodish cast. There was a lot of flash I had to clean up around the face and when I was cleaning it up I found her left ear (under all the flash). Her left shoulder plate was either so thin that I mistook it for flash and removed it, or was just flashy - either way what I perceive as the left shoulder plate (which is pretty much a spike) looks very good. Small air bubbling around her bottomside leaving the impression of exposed ladybits - haven't fixed this yet - not sure I should. And lastly her right hand dagger hilt was cast so thin that it broke almost instantly when trying to remove it from the sprue. Despite these four things I still like the cast - I removed the dagger altogether leaving her with a clenched fist and I removed the flagpole she's standing on leaving the impression that she's landing from an aerial attack. I kind of like it and I figure I can alway put her on a skyboard if I decided I didn't. Overall happiness 4/5, there's a lot of good detail in a delicate looking figure.

and by proxy my son recently bought
Trayzn the Infinite - Great cast, I don't remember seeing anything about it that pissed me off (and I was fearful I would find a bunch). Staff was bent...son hot watered it, was less bent, I'm sure I could straighten it out all the way. My son painted it up and it looks great. Overall happiness 5/5.

That being said I'm still not sold on buying $150 on four boxes of FC sight unseen. Even less so if I'm doing mail order from a place a thousand miles away. Just not there yet. One mini at a time I guess.

I have big mek with kff, box of wracks, haemoculous, succubus, archon, incubi, and urien wrackarth.none had any casting issues that I could find.

Shadowbrand wrote:Got a Sorcerer of Tzeench as a test model to see if the woes where held true. It didn't this time, the model came together easily, came with a lovely detailed base. Painted and shelved as I don't play Warriors.

I run a three strike policy. In the summer i'm going to order some Haradrim Commanders. That will be the second swing. I'll get a Doom Bull as well. That can be the third test.

Hang on - was your Sorcerer of Tzeentch this dude?

If so, then he was plastic, not Finecast...

My own finecast purchases were three boxes of plaguemarines...

There were only a couple miscasts or bubbles in the entire lot (and of those, i only fixed one, because the others just seemed to work for a nurgle army)

Actually, i would say that of the FC stuff i have bought, i've had less work toget them going than with the FW stuff sitting on my desk.

I haven't bought a finecast model myself, but I have obtained some second hand. The ones I have obtained didn't really have any issues and they were much easier to glue than the metals! I found they seem to paint different as well. Not exactly sure but it felt different painting the finecast than any metal models I've painted.

I think finecast will continue to improve and I'll probably be actually buying some soon.

I have bought 6 Hive Guard. Most perfect 2 had some bubbling but it was nearly unnoticeable.

Terminator Librarian had a bent staff but it was fixed easily.

Coteaz was perfect.

In general I am okay with Finecast, obvious price rises are questionable, especially with some figures almost doubling in price, but the material in general is lovely to work with.

As to what I have had so far.


Tyranid Hive Tyrant - got it as soon as it came out, absolute dream to put together, no pinning required. Some minor poc marks, but nothing serious and fits in with the Tyranid look. Only minor issue was a horrific bent sword, and even after several warm to cold treatments, its not fully straight, but is at a point it doesn't bother me.

Necron Imotek, in general fine, some minor poc marks across the cloak, but didn't seem to distract from the fig, weapon slightly bent but an easy fix.

Necron Cryptek, absolutely fine, no issues.

Lord Commissar - once again pretty much spot on, sword bent again, but I think this is likely to be a common issue with any long weapon. Thankfully apart from the horrible reverse bend like the Tyrant had, its generally a easy fix.

Isabella von Carstien was my last buy, which had a couple of serious flaws. a bubble had formed in her left ear, removing the ear and a section of the hair, also another bubble under the chin had removed most of the chin, and was almost through to her mouth. This was sent back and GW replaced it. The replacement was acceptable.

Aura has also had a Succubus, she had a nasty chin issue too, I think some other minor issues as well, which got a replacement figure sent out. The second one was fine.

I picked up Huron Blackheart and a Necron Overlord to paint up for friends of mine at Christmas. Admittedly, I also picked them up to try the new material. I couldn't find an Ork model that I really needed and wanted at the time (I'm pretty well set for Orks at this point and most of their range is plastic anyway), so presents for friends seemed a good solution.

I did have to fill in some air bubbles on the Necron Overlord's cape thing, but that's about it. I wound up resculpting a chunk of Huron's leg, then smacking my forehead when I figured out that it was supposed to be melta-damaged. That, I honestly blame on not knowing the model. Then again, how many of us really paint multiples of Special Characters?

At any rate, I found out a few things. First, I'm a big prep guy. I spend a lot of time going over models with my files and knives and greenstuff before I paint. It's just how I do things and it's actually part of the fun for me. Even factoring filling in the bubbles in the Overlord's cape, prep was both easy and straight forward. Not using files is a little bit odd, but not really a drawback. The only issue I ran into was that Huron's axe arm having releasing agent still on it. A quick soak in Dawn took care of that. It was actually more of a head scratcher since the rest of the model was fine.

I did see a couple of questionable blisters when the material first came out, but the newer ones seem to be both better and more consistent than the originals.

I can't say I'm a fan of the price jump, but I understand it given that they've apparently gone from 10-ups in metal to 3-ups in Finecast. In terms of quality, I know folks have encountered problems, but I haven't in the models I've worked on. With my Orks and my Sisters, I've really seen more and bigger issues with metals.

My biggest issue with Finecast is the lack of weight to it. I'm used to metal models. Picking up an HQ and really feeling like you've got something there. It's more of a tactile thing there, but you don't get the same weighty feeling with a Finecast piece.

MrGiggles wrote:That, I honestly blame on not knowing the model. Then again, how many of us really paint multiples of Special Characters?

Or look at the picture on the front of the clam pack.

Just this afternoon I put together an Imotekh the Stormlord. I bought this piece around Christmas, and finally got around to putting him together, and I am not impressed.

Now, there is nothing horrendously wrong with the figure. Nothing is grotesquely miscast, and there are no glaring air bubbles in any key places.

However, there are some places in his cape & loincloth where the resin is so thin that it is translucent, and one strand on the side of his cape was broken in its sprue. And of course, there are small air bubbles at the bottom of his cape, but I'm not going to get upset over that as even their demo picture has those bubbles, wherein they have even been humourously highlighted.

However, I'm very disappointed with the overall quality. The fine detail just isn't there; in fact often it's so thin that it's more like a thin layer of detritus that withers away at the touch. And most of all, I'm disappointed in how obviously low-grade the resin itself is. It has almost no weight, and no structure. I can only describe it as feeling pliable like non-galvanized rubber. Honestly, its fragility is such that I expect it to break during transport from inside the GW figure case.

Like I said, there's nothing shockingly bad about it, but the entire model honestly feels like the sort of cheap copy that you would expect from a recaster. (and yes, it was bought direct)

I won't create hate threads about Finecast, and I won't get up in arms over it. However, I will not purchase any additional Finecast. The product just does not seem to be as good as as GW's plastics.

(BTW- I don't know if something has changed lately, but the last box of Deathmarks I bought felt like they were made of a heavier-duty plastic than Necron Warriors, and there was almost zero flashing or mold lines on them. Whatever was used for those things should be how all of the models are made)

I've purchased a Finecast Warboss, and a finecast Broodlord so far, and both of them were pretty decent casts, no problem with Finecast so far, bar the Warboss's squig breaking off because of the softness of the material, but a quick pin vice job fixed with minimal hassle.

So far Ive had:
Eldar shadowseer
Dragon ogre shaggoth
Khorne exalted hero
Broodlord
1 Hive Guard
Dark eldar archon & incubi
All of these have been pretty much spot on with only minor imperfections mainly in places that cant really be seen, like the underside of cloaks. I honestly prefer finecast to metal as it is much easier to work with on bulkier models like the hive guard or particularly the shaggoth.

Azazel, I think this is the case for most of the newer plastic kits.

I realize that there are those who are irritated or tired of seeing finecast complaints, especially when their own experiences have been positive. However, other than acting as a source of irritation, what harm comes of it...and this is a long shot...if GW takes heed and improves the process so that instead of X% defects you now have <X%? Let's face it, the defects are there, that can't even be argued (check out the mega thread). It doesn't occur in every product and doesn't affect every customer but it still occurs often enough to be more than a blip.

I'm only writing this out of curiousity, not hating on FC, GW or those who've had good experiences.

I too love resin and I'm crossing my fingers that eventually they'll nail this thing. >

coyotius wrote:Let's face it, the defects are there, that can't even be argued

And yet people here still are arguing it, or, at best, attempting to explain it away a year after release.

coyotius wrote:I realize that there are those who are irritated or tired of seeing finecast complaints, especially when their own experiences have been positive. However, other than acting as a source of irritation, what harm comes of it...and this is a long shot...if GW takes heed and improves the process so that instead of X% defects you now have <X%? Let's face it, the defects are there, that can't even be argued (check out the mega thread). It doesn't occur in every product and doesn't affect every customer but it still occurs often enough to be more than a blip.

I'm only writing this out of curiousity, not hating on FC, GW or those who've had good experiences.

I too love resin and I'm crossing my fingers that eventually they'll nail this thing. >

I think everyone can agree on the above - that we want Finecast to be as good as possible. I think the problem is there is differing interpretation of what constitutes 'good', and what people are prepared to accept in terms of the work that needs doing on a model bought off the shelf.

Also, I think there is a certain amount of indignation from the more longstanding fans - that perhaps new players and hobbyists will accept flawed merchandise, and won't realise anything is wrong with it. The kid thought Lilith looked great on the picture on the website, but why is her sword missing bits and she has a chunk missing from the back of her head? Combined with the first-time painting effort, the overall result is horrific - they get thrown in a box, and he picks up the xbox controller.

This isn't a criticism but an observation - I'm guessing the OP is quite young and probably doesn't have much experience of miniatures outside of GW's own. If you have nothing else to draw comparison to then of course the current Finecast hit rate is, well, fine. For those of us however who can look at minis from other manufacturers, or GWs own past quality for that matter, then FC is not acceptable in its current form.

I really don't understand where the finecast defenders get off trying to say it looks good.

I have yet to see 1 finecast model that actually looks nearly as good as any metal model GW has made.

They could be better with a better mix of plastin/ resic.

As for the good sculpts, I saw a couple. One was the necromancer, the other was a space marine guy. Other then that, the more detail, the worse for wear.

There are some truly mind numbing pictures over in the other thread for how truly low the mighty have fallen, though.


As for recovering from this one, Hate to say it, but I'm not seeing it. Especially if they end up putting these in the 6th edition box sets.

So far I have purchased the Necron Overlord, Cryptek, Hive Tyrant, Hive Guard, Venomthrope, Brood Lord and a Zoanthrope.

Of all of those the only one I had a problem with was the Zoanthrope; the join at the bottom is not strong enough to support the model - I admit I may have weakened the join a bit myself, but it's still not great.

Overall I am very happy with the finecast and much prefer it over the metal models. So... where are my Finecast MEGANOBS?!

Brother Axel wrote:Hey guys and gals!

So, I've been lurking for a long time and read SOOOO many threads about Finecast (Failcast. Failco$t. Failcrapst ETC).

But, I don't think I've seen one that says anything positive about Finecast, and that's a real danm shame tbh.

Here ya go, a thread where the mods warned anyone that dared say anything negative:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/427192.page

I'm curious why there needs to be a "fair and balanced" view on Dakka. There's already a thread about Finecast. Why do we need a second, super special one about how lovely and wonderful it is? Why not post all your positive experiences in that thread?

Edit: i also find it suspect that you registered and posted this thread almost immediately. On most message boards, people would suspect you of being a paid shill of some sort for such an act.

Brother Gyoken wrote:Why not post all your positive experiences in that thread?

With unpainted pictures please...it just helps strengthen the claim.

Well, I'm glad your experience of Finecast has been a positive one. For the record, out of five purchases (Terminator Librarian,Chaplain, Draigo, Crowe and a Broodlord) every one needed to be exchanged at least once before I had an acceptable cast.

No hatred, just observation.

Emerett wrote:I really don't understand where the finecast defenders get off trying to say it looks good.

I have yet to see 1 finecast model that actually looks nearly as good as any metal model GW has made.

Brother Gyoken wrote:

Brother Axel wrote:Hey guys and gals!

So, I've been lurking for a long time and read SOOOO many threads about Finecast (Failcast. Failco$t. Failcrapst ETC).

But, I don't think I've seen one that says anything positive about Finecast, and that's a real danm shame tbh.

Here ya go, a thread where the mods warned anyone that dared say anything negative:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/427192.page

I'm curious why there needs to be a "fair and balanced" view on Dakka. There's already a thread about Finecast. Why do we need a second, super special one about how lovely and wonderful it is? Why not post all your positive experiences in that thread?

Edit: i also find it suspect that you registered and posted this thread almost immediately. On most message boards, people would suspect you of being a paid shill of some sort for such an act.

I'm sorry, did neither of you not read the title of this thread? Hate goes in the OTHER thread. Now if you have an actual problem with a Fincast product and can discuss it in a way that isn't hateful then by all means post away.

I haven't had much Citadel Finecast experience - I've been limited to an Ultramarines Chapter Champion model and, just this week, an Asterion Moloc from Forge World (obviously, FW firmly deny that they use Citadel Finecast for any models, as that is specifically a GW brand - they have just been known to use a resin mixture that's coincidentally completely identical to Citadel Finecast )

The disadvantages? Neither model was perfect: the Chapter Champion was missing a chunk of his elbow, although I was able to fill that out with green stuff with no bother, and Moloc has a hollow foot but, for some inexplicable reason, he still has the treads on his boots spread out over the hollow center. Still, it's the foot he's standing on, so now he's glued to his base, noone else shall ever see it.

As for advantages? Well, the lighert weight and increased resistance to dropping is excellent (the same day I got Moloc, one of my cats "assisted" me in some shelf clearing by knocking a row of metal Legion of the Damned models off the shelf and four feet down onto a wooden floor - they exploded). I also love how much easier it is to file and butcher Citadel Finecast - that Ultramarines chappie was not an Ultramarine for long. I also approve of how easy it is to bend and manipulate when you warm it up: I never did manage to get my resin Nurgle Sorceror's halberd straight, but the considerably warped spear being wielded my Moloc took all of 15 seconds to adjust to perfection, including cooling time. I can imagine that this would be very useful if you wanted to reposition limps or tails as well.

I don't think I've ever had a "perfect" finecast model. Nearly every one I've bought has either needed a touch or so of LGS or the staff has had to get some sort of replacement bit. I'm still positive overall mainly because the Bunker staff are so great when it comes to fixing problems and I really really hate metal.

Can anyone here actually provide us with some high resolution, unpainted, pictures of what a 'perfect' or 'flawless' Finecast miniature looks like please?

I feel that maybe i've been hard done by, as I've gone through nearly £1000 worth of the stuff and not come across a single perfect/flawless mini yet. I've had less than half a dozen 'acceptable' ones now from that tally, but none were anywhere near perfect or flawless.

By 'acceptable' I mean that I only needed to fill in up to a dozen or so bubbles, and resculpt a few detail obscuring voids on the mini, and recarve a few areas where mould tears from prior casts have added extra material to my model.

This is still terrible compared to any other company's resin products, but in my considerable experience is the best i've seen, and after a couple of hours prep-work, the painting of said models was quite a pleasurable experience. Just like most things in life you have to work for.

Surely someone can shed some light on what the grail of Finecast is? I genuinely want to know what I should be looking out for.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

coyotius wrote:Let's face it, the defects are there, that can't even be argued

And yet people here still are arguing it, or, at best, attempting to explain it away a year after release.

Amazing isn't it?

Orki wrote:Can anyone here actually provide us with some high resolution, unpainted, pictures of what a 'perfect' or 'flawless' Finecast miniature looks like please?

I feel that maybe i've been hard done by, as I've gone through nearly £1000 worth of the stuff and not come across a single perfect/flawless mini yet. I've had less than half a dozen 'acceptable' ones now from that tally, but none were anywhere near perfect or flawless.

By 'acceptable' I mean that I only needed to fill in up to a dozen or so bubbles, and resculpt a few detail obscuring voids on the mini, and recarve a few areas where mould tears from prior casts have added extra material to my model.

This is still terrible compared to any other company's resin products, but in my considerable experience is the best i've seen, and after a couple of hours prep-work, the painting of said models was quite a pleasurable experience. Just like most things in life you have to work for.

Surely someone can shed some light on what the grail of Finecast is? I genuinely want to know what I should be looking out for.

I too would like to see.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen really good casts. In fact I own one (Terminator Librarian - And it only took two replacements to get... Third times a charm I guess.), but the overwhelming majority of Finecast that I've seen has been FAIL. I believe (and I'll catch major flak for saying this) that a large majority of those who defend Finecast have incredibly low quality standards or perhaps poor eyesight.

All I'm asking is to be proven wrong. So please, I implore you Fincast defenders to try and change my assumption before flaming me. Make me believe in Finecast.

oni wrote:
I too would like to see.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen really good casts. In fact I own one (Terminator Librarian - And it only took two replacements to get... Third times a charm I guess.), but the overwhelming majority of Finecast that I've seen has been FAIL. I believe (and I'll catch major flak for saying this) that a large majority of those who defend Finecast have incredibly low quality standards or perhaps poor eyesight.

All I'm asking is to be proven wrong. So please, I implore you Fincast defenders to try and change my assumption before flaming me. Make me believe in Finecast.

How DARE you to doubt the words of all these fine gents! If they say that their failcrap miniatures are flawless, then that is because they are! You are just another hater coming in here and asking for "proof"! Everybody knows that Failcrap is a revolutionary casting method that produces the best miniatures in the universe, so say GW, so say we all!

Just saw Albatrosses Bloodthirster in FC and it was spot on.

Excellent model, nice and light too so the wings sit on nicely and didn't require pinning or anything.

I was pretty impressed anyway.

My Commissar Yarrick came through flawless, and all the bits I needed from the Termie Librarian I purchased were flawless. There were some issues with pieces I didn't use (the staff I think was a little mangled).

The nice thing about finecast is that it let me put a GK helmet in place of the head on the Libby. I never would have even attempted that in pewter.

oni wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

coyotius wrote:Let's face it, the defects are there, that can't even be argued

And yet people here still are arguing it, or, at best, attempting to explain it away a year after release.

Amazing isn't it?

No more amazing than the fact that people still use "Failcost", "Finecost", "Failcast", etc.

Orki wrote:Can anyone here actually provide us with some high resolution, unpainted, pictures of what a 'perfect' or 'flawless' Finecast miniature looks like please?

I feel that maybe i've been hard done by, as I've gone through nearly £1000 worth of the stuff and not come across a single perfect/flawless mini yet. I've had less than half a dozen 'acceptable' ones now from that tally, but none were anywhere near perfect or flawless.

By 'acceptable' I mean that I only needed to fill in up to a dozen or so bubbles, and resculpt a few detail obscuring voids on the mini, and recarve a few areas where mould tears from prior casts have added extra material to my model.

This is still terrible compared to any other company's resin products, but in my considerable experience is the best i've seen, and after a couple of hours prep-work, the painting of said models was quite a pleasurable experience. Just like most things in life you have to work for.

Surely someone can shed some light on what the grail of Finecast is? I genuinely want to know what I should be looking out for.

I too would like to see.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen really good casts. In fact I own one (Terminator Librarian - And it only took two replacements to get... Third times a charm I guess.), but the overwhelming majority of Finecast that I've seen has been FAIL. I believe (and I'll catch major flak for saying this) that a large majority of those who defend Finecast have incredibly low quality standards or perhaps poor eyesight.

All I'm asking is to be proven wrong. So please, I implore you Fincast defenders to try and change my assumption before flaming me. Make me believe in Finecast.

Here's where my problem comes up.

I do have a perfect Finecast model. I ordered a Dark Emissary on 7/25/2011, alongside of my Necromancer.

At that point in time, I was very much in the camp of "Well, it's still in its teething stages and I'm sure I can't be the only one who has gotten a perfect casting!" so I didn't think to document it with photographs before priming and starting to paint it. I've been very upfront about my experiences with Finecast so far(Two duds in the form of Vlad von Carstein, a fairly good cast of Konrad which I tried to strip the paint from and subsequently ruined, and then the Dark Emissary who had no flaws which I cannot readily discern), so if you want the photographs of the Dark Emissary I'll provide them.

My first Finecast was exquisite, a Dark Eldar Llamia-- Lhamea-- poison lady. Beautiful detail, not miscasts. The second, a box of incubi, was tolerable. The klaives were kinda wobbly, and there were some bits that need sanding down. The third, another box of incubi, were flat awful. Flaws all over.

Though I still prefer metal, I think there's great potential for Finecast minis to be beautiful, well detailed models.

Brother Gyoken wrote:
I'm curious why there needs to be a "fair and balanced" view on Dakka. There's already a thread about Finecast. Why do we need a second, super special one about how lovely and wonderful it is? Why not post all your positive experiences in that thread?

Edit: i also find it suspect that you registered and posted this thread almost immediately. On most message boards, people would suspect you of being a paid shill of some sort for such an act.

The problem is that, without being prodded in that direction, humans typically focus on the bad. It's the reason why I remember every failure that cost me at Adepticon, but I don't really remember the amazing rolls that I had.

I think this thread is a good idea, and I've been around a tiny bit longer than yesterday. The problem lies in the fact that 12 months of constant finecast complaining isn't content. It gets boring after a while. And if I'm a shill, then they're mailing the checks to the wrong address.

OT, but interesting: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070828110711.htm

PhantomViper wrote:

oni wrote:
I too would like to see.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen really good casts. In fact I own one (Terminator Librarian - And it only took two replacements to get... Third times a charm I guess.), but the overwhelming majority of Finecast that I've seen has been FAIL. I believe (and I'll catch major flak for saying this) that a large majority of those who defend Finecast have incredibly low quality standards or perhaps poor eyesight.

All I'm asking is to be proven wrong. So please, I implore you Fincast defenders to try and change my assumption before flaming me. Make me believe in Finecast.

How DARE you to doubt the words of all these fine gents! If they say that their failcrap miniatures are flawless, then that is because they are! You are just another hater coming in here and asking for "proof"! Everybody knows that Failcrap is a revolutionary casting method that produces the best miniatures in the universe, so say GW, so say we all!

Haters gonna hate. In this case, haters gonna hate on the wrong thread.

Nice work.

I agree. People are quick to be cynical and negative on the internet, quite aside from the negative bias memory shows. A little positivity helps balance out all the bitterness.

Squigsquasher wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

oni wrote:
I too would like to see.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen really good casts. In fact I own one (Terminator Librarian - And it only took two replacements to get... Third times a charm I guess.), but the overwhelming majority of Finecast that I've seen has been FAIL. I believe (and I'll catch major flak for saying this) that a large majority of those who defend Finecast have incredibly low quality standards or perhaps poor eyesight.

All I'm asking is to be proven wrong. So please, I implore you Fincast defenders to try and change my assumption before flaming me. Make me believe in Finecast.

How DARE you to doubt the words of all these fine gents! If they say that their failcrap miniatures are flawless, then that is because they are! You are just another hater coming in here and asking for "proof"! Everybody knows that Failcrap is a revolutionary casting method that produces the best miniatures in the universe, so say GW, so say we all!

Haters gonna hate. In this case, haters gonna hate on the wrong thread.

Nice work.

Seriously.. that fether calls me a troll.

All I have to say is that after my experience having to pin the arms onto my Flammers of Tzeentch and nearly losing it and hurling the models through a closed window, I will deal with whatever flaws Finecast throws my way before doing metal again.

I am holding off on getting any Plaguebearers until they come out in Finecast.

The only Finecase model I have gotten so far was a KFF Big Mek for Christmas. He took a bit of cleaning up to get all the extra bits off, and I had to use green stuff in a couple of places to get it "perfect" (at least for me,) but I don't really care that much. Looks good primed. Can't wait to actually paint it.

Nictolopy wrote:I am holding off on getting any Plaguebearers until they come out in plastic.

Come on man, aim for the stars! I'm really hoping we get plastic plaguebearers with the next Daemons release.

htj wrote:I agree. People are quick to be cynical and negative on the internet, quite aside from the negative bias memory shows. A little positivity helps balance out all the bitterness.

Be fair now, I'm sure the above few posts weren't specifically aimed at me, but I did say that I've had a few acceptable casts now. Although I think the word 'acceptable' is pushing the definition somewhat. The word I was looking for is 'tolerable'.

That's my little bit of positivity for you guys. Can I have some pics now please?

Large, unpainted, in focus, well lit (no, that doesn't mean overexposed), and from a few angles (particularly from the underside where all the bubbles form). Please, show me your good fortune so I may adjust my statistics accordingly, and go into my local again in an effort to seek out this level of 'flawless' and 'perfect' quality myself.

htj wrote:I agree. People are quick to be cynical and negative on the internet, quite aside from the negative bias memory shows. A little positivity helps balance out all the bitterness.

What positivity? This thread isn't an example of positivity, this thread is spin control and a semi-marketing ploy by all the white knights, pure and simple.

There isn't a single shred of positive evidence besides statements, because every single absolutely flawless example of failcrap that people get, is so absolutely marvellous and wonderful that their owners feel compelled to immediately prime it and paint it!

So since we're putting up criteria now...

From now on, whenever one wishes to claim that they "dug through the racks looking for a moderately acceptable cast" you must actually provide photographs of each model you disregarded as "poor quality".

If I can't be trusted to provide basecoated photographs of my model, then you most certainly cannot be trusted to have actually dug through the racks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:

htj wrote:I agree. People are quick to be cynical and negative on the internet, quite aside from the negative bias memory shows. A little positivity helps balance out all the bitterness.

What positivity? This thread isn't an example of positivity, this thread is spin control and a semi-marketing ploy by all the white knights, pure and simple.

"Spin control"? For who?

Games Workshop doesn't give a flying feth what you think. They don't give a flying feth what I think. They don't give a flying feth what you're posting on Dakka.

The fact of the matter is a simple one. People like you, the ones who constantly feel the need to post using terms such as "failcrap"(it stopped being 'edgy' or even remotely amusing sometime last fall/winter, by the by) make it damned near impossible to get any actual discussion going on in regards to the models themselves. It is nonstop whining about "Oh X is in failcrap, PASS!" or rants about the prices.

Prices certainly are an issue, before you run off on a tangent and start in with another line of white knight accusations, and should be discussed. But a thread about the models themselves is not the place for it--and by that same logic, it is very similar to how the thread for documenting issues one has had with Finecast models is not for making ridiculous jokes.

There isn't a single shred of positive evidence besides statements, because every single absolutely flawless example of failcrap that people get, is so absolutely marvelous and wonderful that their owners feel compelled to immediately prime it and paint it!

Gee. It's almost like people want to paint the models they buy...

I don't make a habit of photographing models so that I can show the Internet what I got when they arrive. Do you?
I prep and then prime them, to start painting.

PhantomViper wrote:

htj wrote:I agree. People are quick to be cynical and negative on the internet, quite aside from the negative bias memory shows. A little positivity helps balance out all the bitterness.

What positivity? This thread isn't an example of positivity, this thread is spin control and a semi-marketing ploy by all the white knights, pure and simple.

There isn't a single shred of positive evidence besides statements, because every single absolutely flawless example of failcrap that people get, is so absolutely marvellous and wonderful that their owners feel compelled to immediately prime it and paint it!

Right. So anyone who likes Finecast is a white knight marketing shill? Or indeed, anyone who reports a positive experience?

Perhaps people are faster to post bad examples because a bad example is more emotionally responsive. Perhaps when people get a good one they don't think 'I must post this on Dakka Dakka!' but rather think 'cool, I'm going to paint this.' Yes, Finecast has a lot of trouble meeting decent QA but that doesn't mean that everything is terrible. It's nice to hear that people are having good experiences too, and that the whole thing isn't a unmitigated disaster. Going by all the 'look at this crap!' threads, one could be put off from ever risking it, but having people talk about the positive as well as the negative restores a little customer confidence in those who don't want to write off all of GW's Finecast stuff as a lost cause. And you know what? Some people still like to buy the nice miniatures GW makes.

You want to believe that all Finecast is terrible and give aggro to threads that talk about nice experiences with it? Well, in the end that's your choice. But if you find yourself thinking you're personally under attack by statements that are talking about the general nature of people on the internet, and if you find yourself so convinced that those who disagree with your worldview are members of some strange unpaid corporate-worshiping groupthink-cult that you feel the need to append your posts with patronising little facepalms... well. Then you're probably not going to get much out of the discussion at all.

I've said my piece. Take it or leave it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Orki.

Statement wasn't targetted at you, it's an observation of the nature of folks on the internet. We're all guilty of it.

And - nope. If you're not willing to take someone's word for it that their casts were fine then you're being unreasonable. The vast majority of us (maybe all of us) genuinely have no reason to lie.

Kanluwen wrote:So since we're putting up criteria now...

From now on, whenever one wishes to claim that they "dug through the racks looking for a moderately acceptable cast" you must actually provide photographs of each model you disregarded as "poor quality".

If I can't be trusted to provide basecoated photographs of my model, then you most certainly cannot be trusted to have actually dug through the racks.

That is one of the most slowed "arguments" that I've ever read! Let me see if I understood you correctly, you are stating that the people that posted pictures of bad failcrap miniatures went to the trouble of going trough the racks in their store, and then spent their hard earned cash specifically on a badly cast miniature just so they could post about it in the internet?

Is that really your "argument"?

Kanluwen wrote: But a thread about the models themselves is not the place for it--and by that same logic, it is very similar to how the thread for documenting issues one has had with Finecast models is not for making ridiculous jokes.

Completely agree, that is why I didn't post in this thread until now, but after 3 pages... where are the models? Doing my best Jerry Maguire impression: "SHOW ME THE MODELS!"



Automatically Appended Next Post:

htj wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

htj wrote:I agree. People are quick to be cynical and negative on the internet, quite aside from the negative bias memory shows. A little positivity helps balance out all the bitterness.

What positivity? This thread isn't an example of positivity, this thread is spin control and a semi-marketing ploy by all the white knights, pure and simple.

There isn't a single shred of positive evidence besides statements, because every single absolutely flawless example of failcrap that people get, is so absolutely marvellous and wonderful that their owners feel compelled to immediately prime it and paint it!

Right. So anyone who likes Finecast is a white knight marketing shill? Or indeed, anyone who reports a positive experience?

Perhaps people are faster to post bad examples because a bad example is more emotionally responsive. Perhaps when people get a good one they don't think 'I must post this on Dakka Dakka!' but rather think 'cool, I'm going to paint this.' Yes, Finecast has a lot of trouble meeting decent QA but that doesn't mean that everything is terrible. It's nice to hear that people are having good experiences too, and that the whole thing isn't a unmitigated disaster. Going by all the 'look at this crap!' threads, one could be put off from ever risking it, but having people talk about the positive as well as the negative restores a little customer confidence in those who don't want to write off all of GW's Finecast stuff as a lost cause. And you know what? Some people still like to buy the nice miniatures GW makes.

You want to believe that all Finecast is terrible and give aggro to threads that talk about nice experiences with it? Well, in the end that's your choice. But if you find yourself thinking you're personally under attack by statements that are talking about the general nature of people on the internet, and if you find yourself so convinced that those who disagree with your worldview are members of some strange unpaid corporate-worshiping groupthink-cult that you feel the need to append your posts with patronising little facepalms... well. Then you're probably not going to get much out of the discussion at all.

I've said my piece. Take it or leave it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Orki.

Statement wasn't targetted at you, it's an observation of the nature of folks on the internet. We're all guilty of it.

And - nope. If you're not willing to take someone's word for it that their casts were fine then you're being unreasonable. The vast majority of us (maybe all of us) genuinely have no reason to lie.

1 year has passed since the initial release, not a single picture of flawless miniature has surfaced?

Even in BoW's freaking unboxing videos you can see bubbles and miscasts in the miniatures even in GW's own promo pictures! Is it really that unreasonable to ask for actual proof of what people are claiming? Call me a hater all you like, I'm not prepared to take peoples words on all those wonderful models when I personally haven't seen a single failcrap miniature without at least a minor casting flaw.

PhantomViper wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So since we're putting up criteria now...

From now on, whenever one wishes to claim that they "dug through the racks looking for a moderately acceptable cast" you must actually provide photographs of each model you disregarded as "poor quality".

If I can't be trusted to provide basecoated photographs of my model, then you most certainly cannot be trusted to have actually dug through the racks.

That is one of the most slowed "arguments" that I've ever read!

First of all: cut the insults. If you cannot make a reasonable attempt at discourse, kindly leave the thread and take a break. Come back when you've composed yourself and can engage in a reasonable discussion without having to resort to personal attacks.

Let me see if I understood you correctly, you are stating that the people that posted pictures of bad failcrap miniatures went to the trouble of going trough the racks in their store, and then spent their hard earned cash specifically on a badly cast miniature just so they could post about it in the internet?

Is that really your "argument"?

Second: If you are going to accuse someone (or their argument for that matter) of being mentally challenged, I highly suggest you make the effort of actually reading the post they've replied to and their reply before posting.

My "argument" is that if it's perfectly acceptable for someone to claim that they "dug all through the racks" with no evidence to support it, then why is it that I would have to provide photographs that meet the following criteria to be believed?

Large, unpainted, in focus, well lit (no, that doesn't mean overexposed), and from a few angles (particularly from the underside where all the bubbles form).

If we begin applying a set of criteria to one argument, we need a set of criteria to apply to the other. Without criteria applying in both cases, it's just stacking the deck in favor of one or the other.

Kanluwen wrote: But a thread about the models themselves is not the place for it--and by that same logic, it is very similar to how the thread for documenting issues one has had with Finecast models is not for making ridiculous jokes.

Completely agree, that is why I didn't post in this thread until now, but after 3 pages... where are the models? Doing my best Jerry Maguire impression: "SHOW ME THE MODELS!"

Your first post was what most would consider flamebaiting/trolling. With good reason, I might add.

That said, it's quite clear that even if one were to post a "perfect Finecast" someone such as yourself would claim that they had to go through obscene lengths to get it.

Well, sorry Phantom. I painted mine. You could take my word for it, or assume that I'm lying. Up to you. Don't see why I'd bother lying, but there you go.

Ooh, I have a fun idea. If I'm a white knight shill, then I'll totally switch loyalties and talk about how terrible Finecast is and how GW actually employs people for the purpose of eating babies if you pay me more than I claim GW is paying me!

htj wrote:
@Orki.

Statement wasn't targetted at you, it's an observation of the nature of folks on the internet. We're all guilty of it.

And - nope. If you're not willing to take someone's word for it that their casts were fine then you're being unreasonable. The vast majority of us (maybe all of us) genuinely have no reason to lie.

Thats cool man. I guessed that anyway, though I fear the light-hearted tone in which my comment was meant may have been misinterpreted.

I'm not accusing anyone of lying, nor am I being unreasonable. I have no reason to believe you're lying. I'm simply asking to see photo's of what it is that i've been missing out on.

Again, I've been through more Finecast than probably every poster in this thread combined and have yet to see a perfect or flawless cast. Just as I believe you have got them, you must therefore believe I have yet to see one. I've thoroughly enjoyed working on the ones that I kept as passable, but was under no delusions as to their quality when I accepted them at the point of sale, nor when I got them back to the studio and found while under proper scrutiny the additional flaws that we're not apparent upon purchasing.

I'll say it again just in case anyone thinks i'm being unreasonable. - I would simply like to see what it is i'm missing out on. While the flaws in Finecast are well documented, It really shouldn't be hard for someone to purchase a mini that is 'perfect' and 'flawless' at some point over the lifespan of this thread, and provide us unlucky buggers with some hope for the future.

Guys, please don't flame this thread with the sort of discussion that has gone on elsewhere. Help a brother out, will ya?

The bloke is an absolute ****, the amount of times he has called me a troll for merely debating a point with him about the level of incandescent rage he displays, and now he rocks up in here? It says "not a hate thread" in the title and he is in here throwing insults about and essentially trolling you.

I suggest you ignore him, as I said before, several thousand people have now said "I got a great model" If he want to forward the view that he has severe mental problems and thinks every single one of said individuals works for GW PLC let him gibber away on his lonesome.

There is no need to post a photo for the vast majority of humans, your word is ample proof enough.

Well, I could post a picture of a perfectly cast DE mini, but it's painted, so it wouldn't prove much in many people's minds. Just that I'm an at best average painter. I'm not even a fan of Finecast, I much prefer metal, but the constant ragging on it kinda grates, you know? So I'm willing to go to war on a thread like this, but I'll try not to escalate this.


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Good call, matty. Thanks.

Did we just cross the streams?

Kanluwen wrote:
My "argument" is that if it's perfectly acceptable for someone to claim that they "dug all through the racks" with no evidence to support it, then why is it that I would have to provide photographs that meet the following criteria to be believed?

For the same reason that someone who claims to see a unicorn should provide a picture, whereas someone who claims to have seen a horse does not. Most people have seen a horse.

Honestly, I do believe that GW can produce some good finecast models. However, I'd love to compile a list of which models are generally good quality, and which models have a high rate of failure. For example, the 25th anniversary marine and the necron lord seem to have a high rate of repeated failure, even when a customer requests multiple replacements. Based on the evidence I've seen I wouldn't even bother wasting my time to try to find one of those in good condition. There must be some models that have a higher rate of success., at least according to the comments I've read. I'd like to be able to look up which models are a lost cause, and which models can be purchased with confidence.

To this end, I would like to see people provide pics of good quality models, because it would help re-establish some trust for the product. The high rate of failure on some models, which has been documented repeatedly through photos, has seriously damaged finecast's reputation. It's not unreasonable to expect GW's defenders to make the same effort to document their success.

In short, we've had a 70+ page thread with lots of pictures of horses. Here we have a thread talking about how beautiful unicorns are, but no pics.

Mastiff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
My "argument" is that if it's perfectly acceptable for someone to claim that they "dug all through the racks" with no evidence to support it, then why is it that I would have to provide photographs that meet the following criteria to be believed?

For the same reason that someone who claims to see a unicorn should provide a picture, whereas someone who claims to have seen a horse does not. Most people have seen a horse.

Everyone knows you can't photograph a unicorn though! They're like vampires!

That said, here is the best I can do for giving you some proof. I am not stripping and unbasing this model for Dakka, so you'll have to make do for now.

Kanluwen wrote:

Mastiff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
My "argument" is that if it's perfectly acceptable for someone to claim that they "dug all through the racks" with no evidence to support it, then why is it that I would have to provide photographs that meet the following criteria to be believed?

For the same reason that someone who claims to see a unicorn should provide a picture, whereas someone who claims to have seen a horse does not. Most people have seen a horse.

Everyone knows you can't photograph a unicorn though! They're like vampires!

That said, here is the best I can do for giving you some proof. I am not stripping and unbasing this model for Dakka, so you'll have to make do for now.

Spoiler:

Thanks Kanluwen, for taking the first step. Yeah, it's hard to see, but it's a start at least. Hopefully we can get more in the future.

( Why are pics of flying saucers and loch ness monsters always blurry and dark anyways? )

I have painted all my Finecast I'm afraid because there wasn't anything wrong with them. I can post pictures of the painted models but that wouldn't provide the 'proof' you're looking for. Quite honestly I can see entirely the point of providing photos of unpainted models with flaws but it never really struck me that anyone would want pictures of unpainted ones that were okay.

But I'll happily post a couple of pictures next time I buy a Finecast model.

I have finally purchased my first finecast models, weary of the bad wrap they get on the web:

1 box of Fire Dragons
1 box of Striking Scorpions
1st of all, the details are beautiful, and models are very striking, it seems to hold crisp edges very well. However, they all did have some bubbles/voids (which I am too lazy to fill, they look great anyways), and took a lot longer to prepare with cutting molding/flashing, etc. lots of cleanup!

However, I think I'll be a large fan of them being LIGHTER and less likely to CHIP PAINT than metal. They also glue much easier, and they do have the neat property of easily repositioning with hot water. that makes some conversions very easy.

i do think their process needs improving upon, in light of all the problems they have, but the products still nice.

Would I buy it again? .... maybe, it was a lot of work preparing the 12 models. But damn, they're pretty.

Because they exist in a dimension out of synchronization with our own, and as such the ripples they create in our own dimension cause cameras to take blurry and dark photos.

Plus, everyone knows the clearer the photo the more faked it is.

I went back and looked closely at him, and realized I missed a moldline on his horns on my clean-up though.

Okay, after that little derailing, <resume topical discussion, or terminate thread participation>.

The main problem with FC is that it was launched as the figures
to end all figures. The original release was so overdone that it had
To get a bad reception. And to be honest I see it like this. If you get a good
FC mini, then its actually very good indeed. But if you get a poor one its
Really poor. With metal the standard was uniform. So GW should
Have perfected the casting before such claims were made. Personally I love
Plastic as its so easy to convert and work with.

Some people hate FC some love it.

Me, I use whatever I think looks good. All the materials have advantages
And disadvantages. I don't think FC is that great a material for mass
Produced minis and I'm disappointed with the cost as well.
At the end of the day I think GW brought it out without perfecting it and as such
You have those with bad expierances and those with good.
Neither camp it seems will budge.

My one finecast model was the female vampire lord. It had a few tiny bubbles but nothing which obscured any detail. The sword was slightly bent and I couldn't get it to stay unbent which has kind of put me off any model with a sword or any other long thin part.

Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring. This is my Nightbringer Finecast model. I've not painted it because it was the wrong size for a conversion, so it's been waiting in a drawer all this time. It has a small problem with the underside of one of the sashes but apart from that... no bubbles I can find, no voids, but a lot of flash and vents. I put in some inserts, but they're pretty big pictures as well.

If you get a good
FC mini, then its actually very good indeed. But if you get a poor one its really poor. With metal the standard was uniform

This seems sensible. I'd modify it to say: If you get a good
FC mini, then its actually very good indeed. But if you get a poor one it can be really poor. With metal the standard was far more uniform.

Metal figures could be poor but were seldom so. Not many held detail to so fine an extent as good Finecast (I have two Finecast librarians both of which have better definition of fine detail than the metal one I have -- though the metal one was perfectly satisfactory as far as I'm concerned).

I have had 2 boxes of plague marines, 1 box of seer council, coteaz, draigo, techmarine, all the BA characters and not one issue

Darkness wrote:I have had 2 boxes of plague marines, 1 box of seer council, coteaz, draigo, techmarine, all the BA characters and not one issue

We look forward to seeing all of their pictures then.

The thing is (not directed at you but in general), it has happened quite often that someone has claimed "I have this great flawless FC model", only to have people come out of the woodwork and from all over the place spotting bubbles, missing chunks, screwed up details and other mishaps.

So unfortunately experience has shown people's word can not be taken when it comes to this subject. What looks "perfect" to the one apparently is far from it to the other.

I have had a few very good (but not pefect) casts myself, however, and I do usually check a whole bunch of FC models whenever I am at the store(s), about 8/9 out of 10 blisters I have come across have some kind of casting issue that stops me from buying it.

TBD wrote:

Darkness wrote:I have had 2 boxes of plague marines, 1 box of seer council, coteaz, draigo, techmarine, all the BA characters and not one issue

We look forward to seeing all of their pictures then.

The thing is (not directed at you but in general), it has happened quite often that someone has claimed "I have this great flawless FC model", only to have people come out of the woodwork and from all over the place spotting bubbles, missing chunks, screwed up details and other mishaps.

So unfortunately experience has shown people's word can not be taken when it comes to this subject. What looks "perfect" to the one apparently is far from it to the other.

I can think of one notable case where someone came out and "spotted bubbles, missing chunks, screwed up details, and other mishaps" and the poster who actually had the model in their hands was able to shoot down every single bit of it.

What looks like a "mishap" to one person on a computer screen might not be in real life. It goes both ways, sadly.

Was that my Arjac Rockfist, Kan?

If so, I'm still waiting on Luna explaining what he thought the issues were that he was seeing, as a red circle without description wasn't that clear.

It indeed was, Dysartes.

That said, sometimes it is going to simply be a case that you might not see it in person but when you've got a nice photo you'll spot something you haven't before.

Either something looks the way it is supposed to, or it doesn't.

I haven't seen that specific case (or I have but didn't pay attention), but usually it should be pretty clear cut

TBD wrote:Either something looks the way it is supposed to, or it doesn't.

I haven't seen that specific case (or I have but didn't pay attention), but usually it should be pretty clear cut

Something can look the way it is supposed to in person and still have flaws that will show up when photographed and then shown on a PC screen, but not readily when you're holding it in your hand.

TBD wrote:Either something looks the way it is supposed to, or it doesn't.

I haven't seen that specific case (or I have but didn't pay attention), but usually it should be pretty clear cut

Well I recall seeing it, and that case in point was patently fething ridiculous. People are far too polite to say it, but there were red circles drawn around a few bubble issues the buyer hadn't complained about sure, but also plenty drawn around fully none existent gak.

As I've said before, I'm no white knight, I don't have enough time and effort invested into the hobby to be one and I've still not bought a FC model (I reckon Ill take the plunge this year though as the quality seems to be getting better judging by the boards) but at the end of the day, people on both sides of the line (hater/lover) act ridiculously on this board. I don't understand why it is however that only the lovers seem to get constantly abused. Why the feth do people have to print photos? There have been a good what? Ten-Twelve people in this thread said they have good models? That's enough for people without an irrational hatred/tin foil hat wearer that thinks its all some warped conspiracy.

Seriously, ask the majority of people (normal people make up about 95% of the board) if a pleasent well mannered poster saying "I have a good model" is enough for them, and they will say "Sure it is". What possible reason do tens of people have to lie about it? Get the tin foil out, they are all GW employees, and half of them live in Jervis Johnsons basement.

The lovers see sunlight where there is none, and the haters, as in the case above, absolutely 100% DO see misery and hatred and destruction where there is none, but nobody seems to mention that as much.

Its an embarrassing way for adults to act, and as I said, it always seems to be from the people who own tens of thousands of bucks worth of war-gaming gak.

Basically people that need to go outside a bit more.

TBD wrote:Either something looks the way it is supposed to, or it doesn't.

I haven't seen that specific case (or I have but didn't pay attention), but usually it should be pretty clear cut

TBD: Linky, linky

All those folks asking for pics, and not a single comment about my C'tan Shard. I'm crushed. :(

It looks better than a metal one I painted some years back.

What I don't understand is why there is this "hater"/"lover" mentality? Why's it gotta be us or them extremes?

Can't we just settle for it being sometimes good, sometimes bad, let it die?

LadyCassandra wrote:All those folks asking for pics, and not a single comment about my C'tan Shard. I'm crushed. :(

It looks very clean, thanks for posting it. That's exactly what I wanted to see. I'd be more likely to take the time to buy that particular model, and have some confidence that either it'll be decent quality, or, if it's not, that calling QC has a chance of returning a good model.

I think resin probably works better for organic forms, where any warping is undetectable, as opposed to models that have sharp, straight edges and planes.

It was right before I posted in that thread too

Makes me sad because I still haven't found a decent Witch Hunter...

Your Arjac certainly looks alright. The pictures are too small for me to be able to see what exactly is going on underneath those circles, but there don't seem to be any real issues. The circled little area on the inside of the shield seems a little off, however not a big deal.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
The C'Tan looks good too.

daedalus wrote:What I don't understand is why there is this "hater"/"lover" mentality? Why's it gotta be us or them extremes?

Can't we just settle for it being sometimes good, sometimes bad, let it die?

Exactly, the vast majority of people fall into neither.

daedalus wrote:What I don't understand is why there is this "hater"/"lover" mentality? Why's it gotta be us or them extremes?

Can't we just settle for it being sometimes good, sometimes bad, let it die?

The problem with Neutrals is you just don't know what they're thinking.

My Marneus Calgar + Honor Guard / 25th Anniversary marine are pretty much perfect.

I don't have a camera, so no pictures. I plan on getting an emperor's champion to paint as a captain with Storm Shield/Relic Blade. I'll hopefully have some sort of camera by then to show it either way.

I keep hearing that other companies don't put out stuff as bad as GW does with Finecast. This was something I bought myself today to use as a Lahmian vampire lord.



The banner has more flaws than the 6 finecast models I've bought so far. Mostly just small air bubbles, but there's a particularly bad spot there a resin pipe was cut and needs to be filed down and resculpted, and there's a huge airbubble along one area (which I saw because of the shiny) that's about 2cm long and 5mm wide.

Still won't return it. I can fix all of this, or it won't be noticeable when I paint it. But so far, aside from Infinity models, I've gotten a miscast from everything non-GW that's metal or resin. My AoW vampiress's hand and head I wanted to use had a massive mold slip, the Wyrd Biet Noir I got for Christmas had a miscast dagger, and now this.

Blood and Slaughter wrote:

If you get a good
FC mini, then its actually very good indeed. But if you get a poor one its really poor. With metal the standard was uniform

This seems sensible. I'd modify it to say: If you get a good
FC mini, then its actually very good indeed. But if you get a poor one it can be really poor. With metal the standard was far more uniform.

Metal figures could be poor but were seldom so. Not many held detail to so fine an extent as good Finecast (I have two Finecast librarians both of which have better definition of fine detail than the metal one I have -- though the metal one was perfectly satisfactory as far as I'm concerned).

...Which is why I prefer Finecast to metal, since if you do get a bad cast, you can get it replaced.

I am going to put my opinion in here... I think that there is nothing wrong with Finecast, I mean, sure there are miscasts, but you get that with metals and plastics in many miniatures companies, not just GW and not every product that a company sells will be flawless, there will always be mistakes, that is inevitable and a part of life.

I do agree however that GW have had trouble with some of their first Finecast minis, but it takes time to master new materials, especially when casting fine, intricate details on miniatures.

My last point is that most of the pictures that have been used as 'evidence' against Finecast have just been the same images regurgitated over and over again, and a very vocal minority. I bet in the grander scheme of things most Finecast miniatures are perfectly okay.

Rant over...

I have no axe to grind either way, and I hate the kind of polarisation that seems to have happened to the community at the moment. Using terms like 'Finecrap' has directly lead to threads such as this being made and yet even more confrontation.

I mean did anyone read this comment in the opening post:

Anyhow, the fact is, yes, it was miscast and yes I kept it. That was my choice and I stand by it.

Now, right there, that should have made it immediately apparent that there was little point in having any discussion, I'm not going to go into the long list of reasons why. The point of view comes so far out of left-field that it may have been made by an alien called Zarf discussing the merits of playing frisbee on the moons of Saturn, using only ancillary tentacles.

As I have said previously, surely everyone can agree that what most hobbyists want is to have good quality miniatures?

The problem is, there seems to be a propensity towards polarisation, and certain people (on both sides of the 'argument') who seem unable to offer a balanced critique, and so the categories of 'white knight' and 'hater' are made. Think rationally for a moment, who is likely to be really working for GW, or Mantic for example, and would want to sew discord amongst the ranks? The concept is laughable, yet this is an idea that I seem to see implied in some of these posts.

From my own experience of Finecast? I have seen some very good casts (including an Inquisitor who was perfect, a lovely little miniature and nice in the new medium), and some quite bad ones, including an Astorath the Grimm who looked like he had bingo wings. As always I think we have to remove the two extremes - yes, it is not perfect and still has some issues, but at the same time it doesn't mean the world is going to end.

Personally, I would close this thread, and the other 70-odd page one. Open a new one called 'Finecast feedback thread'. Any mention of 'hater', 'white knight' or 'Finecrap' gets removed by the mods, and instead we can try and get a more objective (and less emotionally charged) critique of how the new models are turning out, and more of a general community consensus about them.

As I have said, we are all on the same side here.

Well said.

Pacific wrote:As I have said, we are all on the same side here.

The problem is, being the internet, we're not. I hold the same opinion as you do - it can be good, it should be good, and you have the potential to get a fantastic model, but you also have the potential to get a poor model. Simply because I like the new material, I get called a white knight. hell, I've been stalked across various sub forums by someone trolling every post I make calling me a GW white knight, which started from liking finecast.

Doesn't feel like we're on the same side.

Brother Axel wrote:Hey guys and gals!

So, I've been lurking for a long time and read SOOOO many threads about Finecast (Failcast. Failco$t. Failcrapst ETC).

But, I don't think I've seen one that says anything positive about Finecast, and that's a real danm shame tbh.
Now, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm sure everyone that has beef about Finecast has their reasons, so I'm here to try and balance it a bit.

Now, before I go on please read this:

LEAVE YOUR HATE OUT OF THIS THREAD.

If you wanna hate, go find one of the 10m threads that already exist bashing on Finecast.
As for the rest of you...

I've bought the following 5 models:

Finecast Librarian in Terminator armour - Flawless.
Finecast Commissar - One of the eyes seemed a bit O.o but tbh, it looks fantastic.
Finecast Chaplain with JC - Again, actually flawless.
Finecast Emperors Champion - No problems anywhere, and this was the first FC I bought the same week Finecast was released.
Finecast Astorath the Grim - The wings were pretty shoddy... So shoddy that I was actually gunna take him back but never got around to it, so I've taken him and converted him. Gunna give him a set of Scourge wings and bish-bash-bosh job done ^-^

So, yeah.
I'm wondering who else is actually genuinely impressed with Finecast?


As a note: I'm gunna address the fact I have a shoddy Astorath model, because I'm sure at least 1 person will argue "you say FC is good, but you have a bad cast? Contradiction MUCH?" Well no, not at all. The GW staff at my store are some of the most helpful, professional and pleasant people I've ever had the courtesy to meet and I know for a fact, each one of them would replace the model in a heartbeat and likely even let me keep the miscast. Several times now I've gone down there with an issue with glue, brushes and files and each time they've handed me a replacement over the till with no questions asked. Two of those times, I didn't even need the product in question!

This is relevant because I believe the FC rage also stems partly from QC and customer service. It's more of an experience, then just a problem with one specific thing. Anyhow, the fact is, yes, it was miscast and yes I kept it. That was my choice and I stand by it.

I am not impressed at all with finecast. I would rather have plastic, metal, or w/e resin Forgeworld used to use. I have had a 50/50 mixture of flawless and flawed...I frown when I find out something is made of this stuff. GW working with us is the only positive I have found.

TBD wrote:

Darkness wrote:I have had 2 boxes of plague marines, 1 box of seer council, coteaz, draigo, techmarine, all the BA characters and not one issue

We look forward to seeing all of their pictures then.

The thing is (not directed at you but in general), it has happened quite often that someone has claimed "I have this great flawless FC model", only to have people come out of the woodwork and from all over the place spotting bubbles, missing chunks, screwed up details and other mishaps.

So unfortunately experience has shown people's word can not be taken when it comes to this subject. What looks "perfect" to the one apparently is far from it to the other.

I have had a few very good (but not pefect) casts myself, however, and I do usually check a whole bunch of FC models whenever I am at the store(s), about 8/9 out of 10 blisters I have come across have some kind of casting issue that stops me from buying it.

Love the vote of confidence. This thread is clearly not for you then. Experience has taught me that all the issues with finecast are blown out of proportion. None of my finecast pieces have had issues.

As for what is perfect, lets say all but coteaz were for commissioned armies. I guarantee my standards are tougher than 99% of people out there,

Funny thing with the finecast is that most metal modes I have bought have had more issues than the reported finecast issue.

Darkness wrote:Funny thing with the finecast is that most metal modes I have bought have had more issues than the reported finecast issue.

This sounds like hyperbole. I own 3 all-metal armies, amounting to hundreds of models, and I can count the number of notable miscasts on one hand. I suppose one of us could just be luckier than the other?

Funny thing with the finecast is that most metal modes I have bought have had more issues than the reported finecast issue.

Wow, now that is a tall claim!

I think to make a claim that resin offers a better hit/miss ratio than metal I think is stepping a little bit too far - I've collected GW miniatures for over 20 years, through both lead and the inauguration of white metal, and in the hundreds of them that have passed through my hands onto the painting table I don't think I have ever seen a significant miscast, beyond mild flash. Certainly, not a distortion of the high-detail parts of the model, and absolutely nothing like on the scale we are seeing these days.

In the past month or so I've seen personally at least half a dozen miscasts of Finecast that were beyond what most people would deem to be acceptable. In one month. That's not to say that miscast resin is unique to Finecast - I've had Flames of War tanks before which were appalling and had to be returned. More a problem of the medium, which is being exacerbated by GW's apparent use of spin casting and poor grade resin.

Pacific wrote:
As I have said, we are all on the same side here.

Sums it up for me. I agree with your suggestion regarding a thread where we don't label each other.

I believe that Finecast is neither a resounding success nor an utter failure but falls somewhere in between on a sculpt by sculpt basis. There are figures that come out of the process near perfect every time and those where it's hit or miss. If by chance you only buy those that have high rates of success then finecast is perfect in your mind, if you are unlucky enough to get some from the other group then obviously you'll believe the opposite. Personally my experiences have been poor but I know there are good ones out there.

With the news of LotD going finecast I recently bought all the figures I didn't already own so I could A) get them cheaper and B) get them in metal to hopefully avoid returns. This is where finecast concerns me. When I clicked "complete order" (or whatever) there was no little voice in my head saying "I hope these are good", the same can't be said when I buy their resin. Would I rather have the LotD in resin? Yes. I don't plan to convert but I do prefer the medium. They've already arrived and are perfect by any standards. Have I never had issues with metal? No, but over all these years I've made more calls to GW over FC than metal. Is the replacement process so awful? No, but it can get frustrating when it becomes multiple calls concerning the same model.

Anyway, I think posting good/bad pics and personal experiences informs us of what figures are "full speed ahead" and which are "buyer beware"...they don't win the argument of finecast being perfect or a "fail".

Howard A Treesong wrote:Winterdyne, I'm curious as to why you bought the Emperor's Champion in Finecast. The advantage I see in Finecast is that it's light which makes it excellent for larger figures like monsters and dragons.

But as for the smaller figures I can't see the benefit. With new releases you don't have the choice, but why buy a figure in Finecast when you have the option of getting it cheaper and in metal?

Lugging a metal Karamzov round isn't fun. My only gripe is thin things such as the new Necron Overlords weapon breaks far too easily and is impossible to repair. However I bought 2 Venomthropes the second finecast came out (didn't dare attempt the metal ones *shudder*), they are perfectly cast and are argueably the coolest model GW has.

I've only made 1 finecast purchase so far, a box of Striking Scorpions. All in all I'm pretty pleased with it, a couple small air bubbles but in places that are hard to notice. You've really gotta be looking for the impurities to catch them.

I'm still pretty leery about buying any others, and will be making those purchases sparingly, but my experience so far hasn't been horrible.

I've purchased the following:
Calgar with Honour Guard:
-The banner was messy and there were some issues with a few models. Called up customer support and they promptly sent me replacements. I asked if they wanted me to ship the others back, they said "No, keep em, take the best of both kits and make your squad, you can practice your green stuff work on the others." I was pleased with this.

Sicarius:
Had issues with his cast, same as above result though, GW promptly sent me a new one.

I've taken a commission to paint Abbadon (or is it Abaddon >.<. He was in finecast and I was pretty pleased with the scuplt and the overall crisp feel/look of the model.

I've seen the Eldar Council kit, Draigo, and some Rangers, all of which look awesome.

I think many people complain, and they have a right too, but most people seem to understate how much Gamesworkshop does to make things right (or at least myself and everyone else who has dealt with them has had 101% outstanding customer service). We do however call seeing as we do not have a location near by to walk into.

Edit:
Also wanted to note that although the resin can snap it is awesome not having to deal with models that weigh a ton and break if you glue them with anything short of epoxy (speaking about pewter).

-Loki- wrote:

daedalus wrote:What I don't understand is why there is this "hater"/"lover" mentality? Why's it gotta be us or them extremes?

Can't we just settle for it being sometimes good, sometimes bad, let it die?

The problem with Neutrals is you just don't know what they're thinking.

"If we hit THAT bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!"

Seriously though, you can be somewhere in between without being bland.

Finecast is OK. It's harder to shatter, the paint doesn't chip, and is easier to put together, flash and bubbles is easy to fix, anyway.

I have only worked with a few finecast models so far. Not enough for a full evaluation. But, what I have worked on has not converted me to being a fan of this particular resin over metal.
I have found that this resin seems to be a bit flimsy and small parts of the model like spikes and blades have a tendency to break or bend rather easily. More so than metal.

I have been working on metal models for a while now and with the proper tools and practice I have found that pinning and converting metal models is not that difficult no matter what the size of the metal part.

So, At this time I will say that I am not a fan of finecast. But, if some changes to the resin formula were made to strengthen it and the amount of bubbles and flaws were reduced to the level that the metal models had I might begin to like this product.

Time will tell.

PhantomViper wrote:This thread isn't an example of positivity, this thread is spin control and a semi-marketing ploy by all the white knights, pure and simple.

There isn't a single shred of positive evidence besides statements, because every single absolutely flawless example of failcrap that people get, is so absolutely marvellous and wonderful that their owners feel compelled to immediately prime it and paint it!

You want a single shred of positive evidence? Okay. Here's one.



And here is another. Oops, I guess that's two shreds of positive evidence. My bad.

Quite frankly, there was no need to provide those pictures, as PhantomViper is just another troll, but I salute you for proving him wrong anyway.

Squigsquasher wrote:Quite frankly, there was no need to provide those pictures, as PhantomViper is just another troll, but I salute you for proving him wrong anyway.

So are most of the people that frequent these threads.

That Dragio looks awesome, but yeah, your words are ample for more than most. I wouldn't take the time out of your life to photograph your stuff and upload them just to appease an odious little cyber bully with a complex.

is that a chunk missing from draigo's sword, to the right of the runes on his sword?

on the back banner, reverse view, there's something wrong with the ][ on the right hand side

the ends of the crossbar of the backbanner are irregular too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, bokeh is all well and good but please increase the depth of view of your camera so that the areas immediately beyond and behind your focus point, i.e., the whole miniature, are in focus otherwise everything beyond a minute plane is blurred.

Really?

I can't see any chunk missing from the swords edge. All I can see on the back of the =][= on the top of the banner pole is some little bits of flash. And the ends of the crossbar? They're stoppers. You might see them in your house on the ends of curtain rods.

holycow wrote:is that a chunk missing from draigo's sword, to the right of the runes on his sword?

Nothing is missing from the sword so I'm not really sure what you think you're seeing there.

holycow wrote:on the back banner, reverse view, there's something wrong with the ][ on the right hand side

I suppose it isn't perfectly symmetrical but nothing really wrong with it, either.

holycow wrote:the ends of the crossbar of the backbanner are irregular too.

I suppose. See above comment.

holycow wrote:also, bokeh is all well and good but please increase the depth of view of your camera so that the areas immediately beyond and behind your focus point, i.e., the whole miniature, are in focus otherwise everything beyond a minute plane is blurred.

Ah, the first truely legitimate criticism of these images isn't about the figure but rather my lack of skill with a camera. I know that the depth of field isn't great but this is a cheapo camera and I'm lucky it has a macro setting. My intent was to show how the detail was not miscast in any way (or repaired by myself) and I think I did that rather well. If all you can do is nitpick about minor "irregularities" then I should point out that that's a long way from the horror stories generally posted on the internet and can be viewed as "proof of positivity" in itself.

Still, I think I should mention that these miniatures are NOT recent purchases, they are among the first batch of finecast to have hit the shelf. This is back when the world was ending and every finecast miniature being released is supposed to have looked like swiss cheese or melted in the afternoon sun. First batch stuff I have but did not take pictures of (all of which were absolutely fine) are my box of Dark Eldar Incubi, Deathmaster Snikch, King Louie Liquor, Lelith Hesperax, Queek Headtaker, Urien Rakarth, and the Tyranid Hive Tyrant back when it was a finecast body with plastic arms.

Let's compare this to the plastic Daemon Prince kit that I recently purchased. That thing would NOT go together correctly. I nearly had to pour LGS into the gaps where the wings attached, under the arms, and where the legs attached to the hips. This is a plastic kit and is a failure of design on GW's part, not a failure of production process at the plastic mill (or whatever it's called where they pour the plastic). There was no replacing bits because everything was cast correctly and would have been identical in every other kit. Can't say this is a problem with the first batch of models, either, because this thing has been out for quite a while now.

Please don't think that I get perfect miniatures from the Finecast Fairy or something. Production problems do exist and it is rather sad that GW allows so many errors to slip into customers' hands. Still, unless you live in an isolated area and can only do web orders chances of bad casts ending up on your hobby table can be mitigated no nearly zero. When I buy a model I inspect every package I get to make sure all the bits are there and that each bit has nothing wrong with it or isn't damaged in some way. When I see a problem, I get the Bunker staff to replace the bit, which they promptly do. That means I leave the shop with a figure that is perfectly acceptable for having spent money on. This isn't new behavior on my part. I did this even back when GW only used metal for their singles.

Ive actually had quite a few decent finecast models, only 1-2 real problems in total though.

3 hive guard - 1 has a few small bubbles on the underside of its hoof (cant be seen)

3 zoanthropes - no issues except minor tail warping on 2 of them.

Stormlord - a few tiny bubbles here and there, but had to look bloody hard to find them.

3 sets of boneswords - these were a fail though. out of 6 swords only 1 could be recognised.

Old one eye - amazing amazing condition, couldnt find a single issue.

2 mangler squigs - 1 has a few bubbles, but apart from that (and the weak legs issues) they are great.

I could go on for hours with this.
But from my own trials / luck, i have no real issues with it, infact, i like finecast.
Just think GW need to be easy on what they make from it as there are 2 issues.

1: Old metal sculpts (taurus etc) dont convert well into resin.
They had gap issues before and all this has one is make them worse.

2: Weak joins: The mangler squig is a good example.
For those who dont know, its 2 large squigs stacked up.
The connection point between the 2 is a single leg, which with the weight, bends badly and needs a support.

LadyCassandra wrote:All those folks asking for pics, and not a single comment about my C'tan Shard. I'm crushed. :(

My apologies. I've had a busy weekend, and though I can't speak for anyone else, I don't sit at my laptop waiting for people to post.

It does look fine though in those pics. It's not particularly clear, but it certainly does look noticeably better then any of the few acceptable casts i've had. If all of the Finecast minis I bought looked like that then I'd be a content customer!

Congrats, and may you luck hold out better than mine.

Breotan wrote:Let's compare this to the plastic Daemon Prince kit that I recently purchased. That thing would NOT go together correctly. I nearly had to pour LGS into the gaps where the wings attached, under the arms, and where the legs attached to the hips. This is a plastic kit and is a failure of design on GW's part, not a failure of production process at the plastic mill (or whatever it's called where they pour the plastic). There was no replacing bits because everything was cast correctly and would have been identical in every other kit. Can't say this is a problem with the first batch of models, either, because this thing has been out for quite a while now.

That is strange. My Daemon Prince kit had no such problems and everything fit perfectly fine witout gaps.

There are plenty of crappy kits, though. The Tau Crisis Suits are notorious for their terrible fit. The Devilfish chassis isn't exactly no.1, though better than the Suit.

To be fair, aero modellers are used to various types of bad fit from many manufacturers.

I'm on a pretty good run with finecast, have a skaven warlord that didnt need any repairs just the usual clean up off the sprue, and there was less clean up needed than i used to get from metal minis so thats a positive in my book.

I also have a librarian terminator with a bubble on the corner of the book back banner thing that i decided not to fix and instead made it a bullet chip, i think it made sense since it was a nice round chip as if he was taking fire to the fore

The weird thing about the Finecast is that it kinda melts under heat. Not really melts, but gets really flexible - I followed tutorials online for fixing my fire dragons where a head had a slight curve, or the Firepike was curved like a banana. I nuked some water in the microwave to near hot, and got some cold water in a 2nd cup, and in 10 seconds in the hot water, the whole model got very pliable, soft and spongey (probably 120-150 degrees at least, that's a guess). bend it to place, dunk in cool water to set the shape, and you're done.

Nice thing about that is easy conversions and easy reposing of limbs, to a point (gotta avoid rubber arms syndrome). That is a benefit, really; easily reposable. Although I would be afraid of what leaving them in a hot car might do for an extended period of time.

just tossing this out there but Breotan's FC Draigo looks way better than the metal Draigo that I worked on a few months ago

Can't we all just get along though? Seriously.

The way I see it the FC fans really should be supporting the guys who arent happy with their FC purchases. At the end of the day everyone just wants the same thing: A Good Product

People may be happy with their FC purchases but that doesnt invalidate the horror stories that are still out there and that are still being made. Hyperbole, low-fail rate or not the fact remains that unsellable and unusable product is still being made and sold. If you're an FC fan that should be even more so unacceptable to you.

Breotan wrote: Okay. Here's one.

Although this is a little OT, man, that Draigo sure is a great looking model.

Ouze wrote:Although this is a little OT, man, that Draigo sure is a great looking model.

Yea, too bad I've decided not to use Grey Knights anymore. I'll just keep him for painting.

I have purchased:

Dante
2 Hive Guard
1 Lictor
1 Tomb King
1 Liche Priest
1 Astorath
1 Casket of Souls
1 Term Libby

I haven't had to return anything. The worst flaw was missing part of a skull on the casket of souls on one of the skulls that goes on top. It's a seperate piece and the flaw was underneath, so you can't even see it.

I owned the terminator librarian already, and compared to the metal, the finecast is so much better looking, easier to assemble, and much easier to lug around.

Bakerofish wrote:just tossing this out there but Breotan's FC Draigo looks way better than the metal Draigo that I worked on a few months ago

Can't we all just get along though? Seriously.

The way I see it the FC fans really should be supporting the guys who arent happy with their FC purchases. At the end of the day everyone just wants the same thing: A Good Product

People may be happy with their FC purchases but that doesnt invalidate the horror stories that are still out there and that are still being made. Hyperbole, low-fail rate or not the fact remains that unsellable and unusable product is still being made and sold. If you're an FC fan that should be even more so unacceptable to you.

Well said. I sometimes feel that there is an unspoken "you must be nit-picking or you must be a lazy hobbyist because I've bought a gajillion finecast and haven't had any problems!" In my case, not true, but it bums me out to think others might believe this.

Breotan wrote:

Ouze wrote:Although this is a little OT, man, that Draigo sure is a great looking model.

Yea, too bad I've decided not to use Grey Knights anymore. I'll just keep him for painting.

That is a shame since it is a terrific model and an excellent finecast example. A little OT, but why? Is it because people give you flak for using GK? Give it a half a year and another Marine codex.

The photos are so small Breotan.

Which mod can I be in contact with to why 2 of my legitimate posts are removed? Thanks.

coyotius wrote:

Breotan wrote:

Ouze wrote:Although this is a little OT, man, that Draigo sure is a great looking model.

Yea, too bad I've decided not to use Grey Knights anymore. I'll just keep him for painting.

That is a shame since it is a terrific model and an excellent finecast example. A little OT, but why? Is it because people give you flak for using GK? Give it a half a year and another Marine codex.

No issues with the army other than it doesn't really do much for me. I'm going to use some of my unbuilt GKs for Librarians of my regular SM chapter and probably trade or sell off the rest.

LunaHound wrote:The photos are so small Breotan.

Wut?