Let me start by saying my interactions with Battlefoam have been generally positive. The salespeople at the various cons are always courteous, helpful and enjoyable to interact with. In the last couple of years I’ve managed to purchase 6 different bags and god knows how many feet of foam but, my recent warranty request to repair a faulty leg on my 1520 has me very disappointed.
While loading a 1520 into my car at Adepticon this year, one of the plastic legs broke under what I would reasonably consider normal and acceptable usage. When I called Battlefoam to inquire about the warranty and report the problem I was told that if I wanted the problem resolved, I’d have to purchase a set of replacement legs and install them myself or glue the leg back on. Now, I don’t really have a problem with needing to do the work myself but, I do take issue on an ethical level with having to purchase a replacement part at my own expense and I don’t consider gluing a leg back on to be an acceptable solution when a product (which isn’t exactly cheap) is sold with a quality guarantee.
To be fair, I do own quite a few Battlefoam products as do many of my friends and I consider it far and away to be the best product in this market space. In the past couple of years I’ve been using their product I’ve never seen a problem like this come up… I don’t believe this problem to indicative of the quality of Battlefoam products but, I do believe this to be a rare case in which a bag was sold with a defective part.
That being said, I’m more than a little disappointed with the way Battlefoam’s customer support has handled this issue. I don’t know that I would go so far as to not recommend the product to prospective buyers but, the quality of their customer service is definitely something to consider when making a purchase.
I’m not typically one to complain but, this whole ordeal has been very frustrating and I thought I’d share my experience.
Your assuming they believe you broke it in an acceptable manner.
They are assuming you didn't.
Unfortunately the burden of proof is on you. Same as any other company except GW! The only company I know which blindly sends replacements out...which I'm grateful for.
I know what you mean though I bought FW dreadnaught droppod foams from them which were too shallow. I sent pics with a video IOT get them to send me a deeper foam. They told me to rotate my pods as if I was balancing them on the fin to make it look shallow instead so I could finagle new foams.
I was kind of insulted they thought I was too stupid to rotate the pods (really...i mean come on), or was angling for free stuff so I called again. They relooked my email and 24hrs later they said they were sending me replacements and fixing the error for future customers.
What I don't understand is how either there was a faulty batch made or I'm the only one to give feedback. So in terms of rating their customer service I guess I give a B. I'd have given an A had they taken the time to really look at my pics and video the first time. But if I turn the tables and was infuses role I could see myself making similar mistakes or having had delt with other dumbasses telling them to rotate the model becoming typical advice.
I can certainly understand the whole burden of proof bit but, if it's a rare occurrence and you're working with a customer who's already bought 6 bags, should you really force them to jump through 27 different hoops to get a $5.00 replacement part? I don't know that I could treat my customers that way. It's a real shame.
Yeah I can understand the 6 bags, not cheap, sense of entitlement. Its a lesser version of the I bought a 30K$ car and you want me to pay for the flimsy plastic clip that just broke? It's a .25 cent part your charging me 20$ and 25$ for instalation...
Battlefoam might care to think in those terms as it's stuff like that which drives customers to other companies. Heck that is why I have 0 customer loyalty and try to put the screws in car dealers and the like whenever possible.
I was considering Battlefoam but now I'm glad I looked at their Quality Guarantee. While not bad, it's not what I want to go through if there is a problem.
For fun I checked Sabol and they apparently only stand behind their product for 10 days. Makes Battlefoam much more appealing in that regard.
But I think I'll stick with GW cases even if they aren't optimal. They've been good and if I have a problem I feel comfortable GW will stand behind the product and if they want it back they'll pay to take it back. <-This is an assumption, I've never had a problem with one of my cases from GW so never called them about it.
If it's under warranty they should really repair it themselves (or send you the part and let you do the repair if you'd rather - though that would likely invalidate any remaining warranty, but it'd be quicker).
Sometimes companies get flooded with claims that are - unlike yours - quite frankly bogus. Because the 'customer is always right', it's often true that people are only too ready to exploit goodwill. This can have unfortunate results for genuine customers like yourself as the compamy will tend over time to regard all claims as questionable (time spent handling returns can amount to considerable percentage of man hours for a small company and frivolous or fraudulent claims can exacerbate this to unmanageable levels). Let me reiterate, this claim seems entirely fair. But there's so many people out there who do defraud companies (be it by adding a little onto an insurance claim to compensate' for the excess, or by returning a 'leaking' waterproof jacket and expecting an on the spot replacement, or whatever) that even the most reasonable companies - especially in fact the more reasonable companies tend to begin to question all returns unless they're big enough to just refund/replace willy-nilly which is seldom the case for wargames accessories companies like Battlefoam. So yes, the cost is factored in - but that's based on a reasonable returns rate. Folk who've made fraudulent returns will cut right into that. genuine customers and the company both lose out.
I've worked for companies that make it hard for customers to return their products. Never once has that been a good company overall. that's changing though...
Companies that experience high returns especially with high cost items (ie: Apple) have learned to offer "accident protection" or in the case of Apple they offer "Apple Protection Plus" which people pay extra to get. A lot do pay for it too. There is a formula to figure out the profit point for doing something like this so it's not like they're just guessing or even doing something unique to them. The act of someone buying this extra special protection product in itself reduces the likelihood of a scam being pulled on them too, so they can still be jerks for standard returns but extra special nice to those who paid for it. The likelihood of the extra special insurance being purchased goes up with the cost of the item. Note that this product is different than the standard extra warranty product typically offered at purchase. I'm referring to premium protection products.
Yeah but a small company suffers far more because their margins are less. You'r enot dealing with WalMart or Apple hear, you're dealing with a fairly small company that people do exploit (I recently heard two people at a tournament discussing the best way to damage a bag - not Battlefoam - to try and claim a new one under warranty. From what they were saying it seemed an accepted thing in their circle, much like - I suppose - people regard a little insurance fraud as acceptable).
Should this bag have been repaired? Sure. But there is another side to things, and that is a significant minority of people who do try to rip companies off and who can turn a small company who delivers excellent service on returns into one where genuine returns are over-scrutinised because of other customers abusing the system.
Professionally, I work as a Network Analyst and in my line of work I occasionally run into problems that require warranty work (faulty routers, failed hard drives, etc.). It's been my experience that getting this sort of thing taken care of isn't much of a hassle these days. Most companies that offer a warranty will stand by it without issue.
Anytime a customer makes a warranty claim there is always the risk that it's fraudulent but, that's just the nature of the beast. If your business is going to maintain a positive reputation you kind of have to take the customers word for it. If you're not willing to do that... don't offer or advertise a quality guarantee. Treating the customer like a criminal seems like a poor way operate.
And just to reiterate, I wasn't asking for a replacement bag or anything insane. I was simply asking for a new set of plastic legs which I was willing to install myself. I really don't know what someone would do with a bunch of fraudulent 1520 bag legs?
Within this link you will find information regarding our warranty on bags:
“There is a 90 day guarantee on all bags found to be defective due to manufacturing defects. Bags deemed defective can be exchanged for the exact matching product. Shipping and handling charges will not be reimbursed; however, Battle Foam® will ship the replacement bag at no extra cost. Customers who purchased their bag from their Local Friendly Game Store must have a valid receipt of purchase and must show a date no later than 90 days to qualify.”
Since the bag was purchased past this time frame, then you would qualify for the limited warranty.
“There is a 1 year limited warranty on all bags no matter where they are purchased. In this case, the customer may fix the bag locally. Battle Foam will gladly refund the cost of the work done to the bag to correct any rips or damage caused by faulty straps or other general problems. Only customers that provide a valid receipt will receive a refund for any corrections or repairs done to the bags.”
Please note that though the bag was purchased a year ago, we are willing to take care of the costs if you fix it locally. Very rarely do we hear of broken pegs on our bags, but we do have replacement parts for sale that we would gladly assist you with installing. As a company we have no way of knowing how the peg broke off, but we are still here to help. We are not ignoring your problem in any way and are only trying to help you with a solution per our policy.
This attitude from BFCS doesn't surprise me. This is one of several complaints about BF on Dakka (several are about their CS actually). I have no qualms with the BF product. I actually do believe that it is one of the best "army transport" options we have. The durability of the product is well reported. They are expensive as sin. If the durability isn't needed then there are several other cheaper options that will suit your needs just fine.
That said, I will maintain my boycott of BF products based solely on the attitude of the company and those involved with it. <text redacted - you are welcome to your opinion, and to your position, but I'd ask you to be VERY careful of a) categorizing all of any company's employees in the way you did; or b) offering your opinions on whether certain activity is or is not criminal. --Janthkin>
To the OP, I am glad that you seem to have gotten the issue resolved after the second call and I hope that your replacement parts hold up better than the originals did.
I really appreciate the response and I'm really not trying to cause a hassle. My wife and I spent several hours trying to locate a store that repairs luggage. As I said on the phone, we couldn't find one reasonably close to where we live. If you could locate one in my community for me I'd happily bring it over to them, pay for it myself and forward on the receipt but, logically, it seems a whole lot easier to just send the $5.00 part, no?
Kurros wrote:I really appreciate the response and I'm really not trying to cause a hassle. My wife and I spent several hours trying to locate a store that repairs luggage. As I said on the phone, we couldn't find one reasonably close to where we live. If you could locate one in my community for me I'd happily bring it over to them, pay for it myself and forward on the receipt but, logically, it seems a whole lot easier to just send the $5.00 part, no?
You do realize that Battlefoam itself doesn't actually just have a bunch of spare parts laying around, right (they don't build each bag themselves, they have them built)? So unfortunately it wouldn't be feasible for them to just have the spare part lying around sadly.
Within this link you will find information regarding our warranty on bags:
“There is a 90 day guarantee on all bags found to be defective due to manufacturing defects. Bags deemed defective can be exchanged for the exact matching product. Shipping and handling charges will not be reimbursed; however, Battle Foam® will ship the replacement bag at no extra cost. Customers who purchased their bag from their Local Friendly Game Store must have a valid receipt of purchase and must show a date no later than 90 days to qualify.”
Since the bag was purchased past this time frame, then you would qualify for the limited warranty.
“There is a 1 year limited warranty on all bags no matter where they are purchased. In this case, the customer may fix the bag locally. Battle Foam will gladly refund the cost of the work done to the bag to correct any rips or damage caused by faulty straps or other general problems. Only customers that provide a valid receipt will receive a refund for any corrections or repairs done to the bags.”
Please note that though the bag was purchased a year ago, we are willing to take care of the costs if you fix it locally. Very rarely do we hear of broken pegs on our bags, but we do have replacement parts for sale that we would gladly assist you with installing. As a company we have no way of knowing how the peg broke off, but we are still here to help. We are not ignoring your problem in any way and are only trying to help you with a solution per our policy.
Can I ask you an honest question? How many bag repair shops exist locally in your community? My zip code is 53177... if you can find one, I'd be happy to go over there.
It seems as if this is a policy designed to be near impossible to redeem. You're pushing your customers to either give up or, pay you additional money to buy a replacement for the faulty part. Yes, you have no way of knowing how the peg broke off but, you can say that about any repair that needs to be made under the guidelines of your quality guarantee. It may be the company's policy to treat consumers this way but, maybe it's time to reevaluate that policy?
I'm really not sure what it is you think your customers are going to do with the replacement parts... it's not like I'm trying to build a treefort out of them.
As you've stated, you have the part needed in stock... you have a quality guarantee... my bag is still within that 1 year time frame... this treatment is way unnecessary.
Kurros wrote:
Can I ask you an honest question? How many bag repair shops exist locally in your community? My zip code is 53177... if you can find one, I'd be happy to go over there.
I had to find what city you were in first. Once I Googled your Zip to find you were in Sturtevant, I simply Googled "Sturtevant, WI luggage repair" (sans quotes) to get the results.
Actually, the zip code had a typo (should read 53144) but, it's close enough. The nearest store listed in that Google page is over an hour away... That means a hour there, an hour back and then, a return trip once it's finished... that isn't exactly local.
@Kurros -
I would probably say to give them a chance to work with you here before getting too worked up... The fact that they came in to address it in this thread says they give a poop. Whether it is because they want to help out a customer on that merit alone, or if they want to avoid negative press, either way, you have their ear and that is more than you can expect with a lot of companies these days.
I can definitely see your point about the warranty, and the way it should be handled. You bought an expectation of quality along with the bag, and you want what you payed for in essense. I get it.
From Battlefoams side though, as a business owner, the particular circumstances of your problem are a bit tough to resolve easily. Though well known in our circle, they are not a large company. Therefore on the one hand, they have to maintain a degree of quality and a reputation for it, as the community is small enough that a bad story could do them tangible damage. I think they take this seriously as a fact of business for them.
That being said though, on the other side of the coin, they also have to deal with the financial realities of their warranties and how to honor them. Much like an iphone, there are certain kinds of damage where they just can’t say for sure if you got wasted one night and kicked off a peg in a fit, or if the thing just fell off. There has to be a limit to their commitment to repair with an item of this cost, as you yourself have pointed out, it is not like a repair facility is easily accessible to everyone… replacing bags completely or even paying for repairs out of pockets is potentially a horrendous financial burden on them, and they have to be wary of it.
Now, that being said, I think it would be reasonable to assume that given your tone, the story as you state it and the venue you chose to express yourself, that in all likelihood it happened exactly as you say.
If I would be so forward to suggest Kyle/Romeo whichever of you guys is watching, that sending Kurros the part free of charge, and giving him instructions on how to repair it himself (I am assuming that no matter what the case may be, hot glue and a screw drilled into the peg through the bag, and then the screwhead itself sealed to the fabric with hot glue would fix the bugger on good and tight) would be a good way to resolve it?
To give you an example Kurros, last week I was travelling back home with my wife and son, and the guy helping with the valet luggage decided to manhandle the stroller like a gorilla getting it onto the plane and broke it. Now, on the upside, Air Canada had coverage for it. On the downside, we had to call and arrange an appointment with their repair place, then go drive downtown to drop it off, and I just had to go pick it up again today. It was a huge pain in the ass and a few hours of my time, which = $$$ from my pocket. In a perfect world, they would have just replaced it with a new one shipped straight to my door… instead I had to run around like an idiot, but at least, at least it got sorted out relatively easily except for the time.
Now Air Canada is a pretty massive company, if that was all they could swing, I can well imagine that Battlefoam would have trouble matching it out of hand.
Anyways, I am sure there is a resolution that could be had here. Having met Romeo and spoken with him a bit, I can say the guy takes his business very seriously as well as the quality of the product.
Good luck to you!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
12thRonin wrote:
Janthkin wrote: <text redacted - you are welcome to your opinion, and to your position, but I'd ask you to be VERY careful of a) categorizing all of any company's employees in the way you did; or b) offering your opinions on whether certain activity is or is not criminal. --Janthkin>
But it's ok to say things like this about GW and their employees as a whole cause they're not an advertiser? GW gets far worse than things like that.
Btw, Chapterhouse and many others that have had heated debates and comments centered around them ARE advertisers, and the debates still happened. Advertisers don't get special treatment guys, honestly. Most of the staff probably couldn't even name half of them. The Mod's have nothing to do with implementing or regulating ads, it is completely an admin thing and they have never, ever said anything about treating anyone differently. That is not what Dakka is about, at all. The owners don't run it for profits, they run it out of love of the hobby.
If anyone is defending battlefoam, it may simply be that we own one of their products and had a good experience, or have seen incidents in the past where they did right by the customer. As to GW, of course we don't condone blanket statements on the entire company's staff lol! What does the local red-shirt have to do with a suit raising prices? Nothing at all... please don't confuse a dislike of certain policies by some people into a generalized hatred, or an endorsement there-of... that simply wouldn't make sense, would it?
I don't blame you for making that assumption though, unfortunately that is the way it works in a lot of places... I did not write the above to admonish you or make your arguement seem foolish, merely to give a few facts that would hopefully change your mind.
An hour away isn't local for going to get a pizza, but it is for luggage repair. It's not like you're going to go to the shop 20 times or something. Surely you have reason to go into Milwaukee or Chicago on other business sometimes?
That was a very well written and fair post. Kudos.
To be clear, I didn't immediately run to the forums. My wife exchanged several emails on my behalf as well as a phone call with Kiran (I hope I'm spelling her name right... I apologize if I'm not) and then, I did follow up with Kiran myself; it was after that conversation that I posted my review of the process and my frustration.
To add a little levity, I believe Tommy Boy sums it up better than I can:
My stance on this isn't that the part is expensive (I own over a grand in Battle foam products... five bucks isn't a big deal). My point is that a guarantee should mean something. I shouldn't need to jump through all these hoops to get there.
My reason for posting wasn't to drag a small companies name through the mud; it's more for consumer awareness.
I'm sorry if my post implied in any way shape or form that I found your original post, or anything you have done thus far unreasonable, not at all.
Just trying to see how it is a gakky situation for both sides, and also throwing my hat in that I am inclined to think they should take care of you and send the part free and tell you how to install it yourself.
At the point you were at, coming on the forums to speak about it was a perfectly natural thing to do. Again, apologies if my message seemed otherwise.
MajorTom11 wrote:I'm sorry if my post implied in any way shape or form that I found your original post, or anything you have done thus far unreasonable, not at all.
Just trying to see how it is a gakky situation for both sides, and also throwing my hat in that I am inclined to think they should take care of you and send the part free and tell you how to install it yourself.
At the point you were at, coming on the forums to speak about it was a perfectly natural thing to do. Again, apologies if my message seemed otherwise.
No worries at all. I just wanted to fill in some blanks. I think your post was pretty well on the mark.
Within this link you will find information regarding our warranty on bags:
“There is a 90 day guarantee on all bags found to be defective due to manufacturing defects. Bags deemed defective can be exchanged for the exact matching product. Shipping and handling charges will not be reimbursed; however, Battle Foam® will ship the replacement bag at no extra cost. Customers who purchased their bag from their Local Friendly Game Store must have a valid receipt of purchase and must show a date no later than 90 days to qualify.”
Since the bag was purchased past this time frame, then you would qualify for the limited warranty.
“There is a 1 year limited warranty on all bags no matter where they are purchased. In this case, the customer may fix the bag locally. Battle Foam will gladly refund the cost of the work done to the bag to correct any rips or damage caused by faulty straps or other general problems. Only customers that provide a valid receipt will receive a refund for any corrections or repairs done to the bags.”
Please note that though the bag was purchased a year ago, we are willing to take care of the costs if you fix it locally. Very rarely do we hear of broken pegs on our bags, but we do have replacement parts for sale that we would gladly assist you with installing. As a company we have no way of knowing how the peg broke off, but we are still here to help. We are not ignoring your problem in any way and are only trying to help you with a solution per our policy.
Can I ask you an honest question? How many bag repair shops exist locally in your community? My zip code is 53177... if you can find one, I'd be happy to go over there.
It seems as if this is a policy designed to be near impossible to redeem. You're pushing your customers to either give up or, pay you additional money to buy a replacement for the faulty part. Yes, you have no way of knowing how the peg broke off but, you can say that about any repair that needs to be made under the guidelines of your quality guarantee. It may be the company's policy to treat consumers this way but, maybe it's time to reevaluate that policy?
I'm really not sure what it is you think your customers are going to do with the replacement parts... it's not like I'm trying to build a treefort out of them.
As you've stated, you have the part needed in stock... you have a quality guarantee... my bag is still within that 1 year time frame... this treatment is way unnecessary.
Am I understanding this thread correctly- Battlefoam has confirmed to you (over the phone, I think) that they have this part in-stock, and you can buy it for $5.00?
I agree that it's poor form not to just send it on for free, if they've confirmed it's only a $5.00 part that they have on-hand! If that's what the customer wants, and will agree to as the solution to the problem, it would be MUCH cheaper than having them go to a luggage repair shop. Particularly, good customer service would imply working with a customer to find a solution... if the luggage repair shop is not local, and the part is in-stock and able to be sold, why not send it for free as a compromise?
I think it is excellent that Battlefoam responded in this thread, and look forward to hearing of the positive resolution that they come up with to this matter.
I find it interesting that instead of sending you a $5 part, an option that you are okay with, that they would send you to get the bag repaired professionally and reimburse you for that. Ignoring the inconvenience to you, getting the bag repaired professionally has to cost more than $5, not even counting fuel costs to you.
It's interesting how hard Battlefoam works at getting their bad press.
Irdiumstern wrote:I find it interesting that instead of sending you a $5 part, an option that you are okay with, that they would send you to get the bag repaired professionally and reimburse you for that. Ignoring the inconvenience to you, getting the bag repaired professionally has to cost more than $5, not even counting fuel costs to you.
It's interesting how hard Battlefoam works at getting their bad press.
And this is what must be incredibly frustrating for companies dealing with customer service.
The company has a perfectly reasonable offer on record for any faults with their product. However a customer has decided that the reasonable offer isn't the most convenient thing for them and is hoping they will be able to provide him with an alternate method to complete the fix (which of course it doesn't hurt to ask).
If the company is able to accommodate the customer's request, then good on them. But just because a customer has decided that the existing reasonable repair option isn't what works best for them doesn't suddenly mean that the company is 'working' to get bad press!
The company has an existing repair offer for their bags that the purchaser tacitly agreed to upon purchasing the product. While a different repair solution may seem simpler to the customer, that's not what the company offered to you as a repair option when you purchased the product.
So for anyone to insinuate that the company is somehow dropping the ball or actively taking steps to torpedo their reputation is frankly ludicrous. All the company is doing is offering to do what they said they would do...reimburse the cost of repairing their bag, which again is a perfectly reasonable offer.
Irdiumstern wrote:I find it interesting that instead of sending you a $5 part, an option that you are okay with, that they would send you to get the bag repaired professionally and reimburse you for that. Ignoring the inconvenience to you, getting the bag repaired professionally has to cost more than $5, not even counting fuel costs to you.
It's interesting how hard Battlefoam works at getting their bad press.
And this is what must be incredibly frustrating for companies dealing with customer service.
The company has a perfectly reasonable offer on record for any faults with their product. However a customer has decided that the reasonable offer isn't the most convenient thing for them and is hoping they will be able to provide him with an alternate method to complete the fix (which of course it doesn't hurt to ask).
If the company is able to accommodate the customer's request, then good on them. But just because a customer has decided that the existing reasonable repair option isn't what works best for them doesn't suddenly mean that the company is 'working' to get bad press!
The company has an existing repair offer for their bags that the purchaser tacitly agreed to upon purchasing the product. While a different repair solution may seem simpler to the customer, that's not what the company offered to you as a repair option when you purchased the product.
So for anyone to insinuate that the company is somehow dropping the ball or actively taking steps to torpedo their reputation is frankly ludicrous. All the company is doing is offering to do what they said they would do...reimburse the cost of repairing their bag, which again is a perfectly reasonable offer.
What reasonable repair offer are your referring to?
The one where the customer has to spend a total of 4 hours driving and a good 40 bucks worth of gas? I think most wouldn't consider that to be either local (as the policy states) or reasonable.
yakface wrote:So for anyone to insinuate that the company is somehow dropping the ball... is frankly ludicrous. All the company is doing is offering to do what they said they would do...reimburse the cost of repairing their bag, which again is a perfectly reasonable offer.
I disagree with this, yak (edited out the phrase of "or actively taking steps to torpedo their reputation", as I don't think they're doing that at all, just dropping the ball on an easy customer service issue).
I do think they're dropping the ball a bit, but I look forward to seeing them pick it up again, as they've posted in this thread and are active on forums. Good on them for doing so, now they just need to take the last, easy step!
You use the phrase "reasonable", but a a "reasonable" resolution is to work with the customer, save your company the man-hours of dealing with this, and send the replacement part (which unless I am misunderstanding, they have told the customer they have on-hand and are willing to send them for $5, plus shipping I assume) and have a happy customer.
That would be the very definition of "reasonable", in my opinion!
MajorTom11 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
12thRonin wrote:
Janthkin wrote: <text redacted - you are welcome to your opinion, and to your position, but I'd ask you to be VERY careful of a) categorizing all of any company's employees in the way you did; or b) offering your opinions on whether certain activity is or is not criminal. --Janthkin>
But it's ok to say things like this about GW and their employees as a whole cause they're not an advertiser? GW gets far worse than things like that.
Btw, Chapterhouse and many others that have had heated debates and comments centered around them ARE advertisers, and the debates still happened. Advertisers don't get special treatment guys, honestly. Most of the staff probably couldn't even name half of them. The Mod's have nothing to do with implementing or regulating ads, it is completely an admin thing and they have never, ever said anything about treating anyone differently. That is not what Dakka is about, at all. The owners don't run it for profits, they run it out of love of the hobby.
I see my original post is deleted while being lectured on how there's no special treatment, okay. Lets start up a thread about the Foam Wars and see how fast it gets locked. If anything, that reinforces that view since we can't seem to be able to discuss that.
In regard to the owners, I'd be pretty sure that Yak and Lego aren't running the site at a loss.
If anyone is defending battlefoam, it may simply be that we own one of their products and had a good experience, or have seen incidents in the past where they did right by the customer. As to GW, of course we don't condone blanket statements on the entire company's staff lol! What does the local red-shirt have to do with a suit raising prices? Nothing at all... please don't confuse a dislike of certain policies by some people into a generalized hatred, or an endorsement there-of... that simply wouldn't make sense, would it?
But blanket statements are pretty common on GW threads for all red shirts, blue/black shirts, Finecast, etc. and nothing is said about it by the mods.
I don't blame you for making that assumption though, unfortunately that is the way it works in a lot of places... I did not write the above to admonish you or make your arguement seem foolish, merely to give a few facts that would hopefully change your mind.
You didn't since you did not offer facts but opinions. I've seen too many times that the mods leap to Romeo's defense anytime that Battlefoam is mentioned negatively. Some of the same arguments here defending Battlefoam apply equally to Finecast (driving to replace or repair it isn't a big deal), but yet the damaged party complains that they shouldn't have to do that when it comes to a equally overpriced product with high quality expectations.
Irdiumstern wrote:I find it interesting that instead of sending you a $5 part, an option that you are okay with, that they would send you to get the bag repaired professionally and reimburse you for that. Ignoring the inconvenience to you, getting the bag repaired professionally has to cost more than $5, not even counting fuel costs to you.
It's interesting how hard Battlefoam works at getting their bad press.
And this is what must be incredibly frustrating for companies dealing with customer service.
The company has a perfectly reasonable offer on record for any faults with their product. However a customer has decided that the reasonable offer isn't the most convenient thing for them and is hoping they will be able to provide him with an alternate method to complete the fix (which of course it doesn't hurt to ask).
If the company is able to accommodate the customer's request, then good on them. But just because a customer has decided that the existing reasonable repair option isn't what works best for them doesn't suddenly mean that the company is 'working' to get bad press!
The company has an existing repair offer for their bags that the purchaser tacitly agreed to upon purchasing the product. While a different repair solution may seem simpler to the customer, that's not what the company offered to you as a repair option when you purchased the product.
So for anyone to insinuate that the company is somehow dropping the ball or actively taking steps to torpedo their reputation is frankly ludicrous. All the company is doing is offering to do what they said they would do...reimburse the cost of repairing their bag, which again is a perfectly reasonable offer.
What reasonable repair offer are your referring to?
The one where the customer has to spend a total of 4 hours driving and a good 40 bucks worth of gas? I think most wouldn't consider that to be either local (as the policy states) or reasonable.
I'd consider that local if I lived in the suburbs of two large cities; when a person chooses where they live and are not living where every conceivable service is within close proximity, they must reasonably expand their definition of local to include those cities for uncommon services (like luggage repair or neurosurgery). Certainly you can bundle your luggage repair with other trips to Chicago or Milwaukee?
You being unhappy with the answer doesn't make the answer less reasonable. Frankly I'd have sent you the part and been done with it, but it is unreasonable to complain that by following their written policy a merchant is behaving unjustly (even if we both agree that there is what appears to be a simple solution).
12thRonin wrote:But blanket statements are pretty common on GW threads for all red shirts, blue/black shirts, Finecast, etc. and nothing is said about it by the mods.
You didn't since you did not offer facts but opinions. I've seen too many times that the mods leap to Romeo's defense anytime that Battlefoam is mentioned negatively. Some of the same arguments here defending Battlefoam apply equally to Finecast (driving to replace or repair it isn't a big deal), but yet the damaged party complains that they shouldn't have to do that when it comes to a equally overpriced product with high quality expectations.
Not to disrupt a perfectly good conspiracy theory, but it's really very simple. See those yellow triangles in the upper-right of each post? They invite moderators to look at a particular post. When someone hits the triangle, we look. If we think it appropriate, then we act. If no one hits the triangle, then it's quite possible no mod ever reads the post - it's a big forum.
Blanket negative generalizations about any company's employees, or legally-unsound assertions about a company's business practices are not welcome on the board, regardless of the company.
And further discussion along these lines in this thread will be treated as off-topic, and sanctioned accordingly.
Let's focus on getting Kurros' issue resolved, and not drag this off-topic.
Right now, I think Battlefoam is dropping the ball on this customer service issue, but I know they read the forums and am hoping that that will be rectified very shortly.
Irdiumstern wrote:I find it interesting that instead of sending you a $5 part, an option that you are okay with, that they would send you to get the bag repaired professionally and reimburse you for that. Ignoring the inconvenience to you, getting the bag repaired professionally has to cost more than $5, not even counting fuel costs to you.
It's interesting how hard Battlefoam works at getting their bad press.
And this is what must be incredibly frustrating for companies dealing with customer service.
The company has a perfectly reasonable offer on record for any faults with their product. However a customer has decided that the reasonable offer isn't the most convenient thing for them and is hoping they will be able to provide him with an alternate method to complete the fix (which of course it doesn't hurt to ask).
If the company is able to accommodate the customer's request, then good on them. But just because a customer has decided that the existing reasonable repair option isn't what works best for them doesn't suddenly mean that the company is 'working' to get bad press!
The company has an existing repair offer for their bags that the purchaser tacitly agreed to upon purchasing the product. While a different repair solution may seem simpler to the customer, that's not what the company offered to you as a repair option when you purchased the product.
So for anyone to insinuate that the company is somehow dropping the ball or actively taking steps to torpedo their reputation is frankly ludicrous. All the company is doing is offering to do what they said they would do...reimburse the cost of repairing their bag, which again is a perfectly reasonable offer.
What reasonable repair offer are your referring to?
The one where the customer has to spend a total of 4 hours driving and a good 40 bucks worth of gas? I think most wouldn't consider that to be either local (as the policy states) or reasonable.
I'd consider that local if I lived in the suburbs of two large cities; when a person chooses where they live and are not living where every conceivable service is within close proximity, they must reasonably expand their definition of local to include those cities for uncommon services (like luggage repair or neurosurgery). Certainly you can bundle your luggage repair with other trips to Chicago or Milwaukee?
You being unhappy with the answer doesn't make the answer less reasonable. Frankly I'd have sent you the part and been done with it, but it is unreasonable to complain that by following their written policy a merchant is behaving unjustly (even if we both agree that there is what appears to be a simple solution).
I think it's more than a bit of a stretch to say two trips across state lines, through a series of tolls and 4+ hours of driving is convenient/local.
I think the gripe is more that the policy itself is made so unnecessarily inconvenient that customers are going to more often than not give up. I can't say whether or not that's the intention of the "Quality Guarantee" but, it's hard to argue against that being the end result (at least in this case).
To be frank, the bag is designed to transport models. It broke during a car ride... I have two pieces of luggage that I travel with, each of which costs less than my Battlefoam bags. I've traveled all over the country with this luggage... through numerous airports and as a result, the ungentle manhands of many a bag handler without a single issue. I've had this 1520 for about a year and after two longish car rides and a dozen or so smaller ones, it's already broken. I think it's OK to voice concern about a company that doesn't have an issue with a problem like this whether it falls under every minucia of their policy or not. When people hear about a quality guarantee, it builds a certain expectation of both that company and their product.
That being said, I don't fault anyone for coming to Battlefoams defense on this. They do alot of great things for the community (like supporting this site as well as other community sites like Bartertown). As I stated in the original post, the staff at Battlefoam despite our differences have always been friendly and up until now a pleasure to work with. I do think I'm being fair in saying this was a poor experience and I do think this is something consumers should be made aware of if they are to make an informed purchase.
Personally, I don't think it's asking too much for this to be made right and the convenient solution most on here seem to agree isn't that difficult to acheive. As a long time customer, I don't appreciate being put through the ringer.
Within this link you will find information regarding our warranty on bags:
“There is a 90 day guarantee on all bags found to be defective due to manufacturing defects. Bags deemed defective can be exchanged for the exact matching product. Shipping and handling charges will not be reimbursed; however, Battle Foam® will ship the replacement bag at no extra cost. Customers who purchased their bag from their Local Friendly Game Store must have a valid receipt of purchase and must show a date no later than 90 days to qualify.”
Since the bag was purchased past this time frame, then you would qualify for the limited warranty.
“There is a 1 year limited warranty on all bags no matter where they are purchased. In this case, the customer may fix the bag locally. Battle Foam will gladly refund the cost of the work done to the bag to correct any rips or damage caused by faulty straps or other general problems. Only customers that provide a valid receipt will receive a refund for any corrections or repairs done to the bags.”
Please note that though the bag was purchased a year ago, we are willing to take care of the costs if you fix it locally. Very rarely do we hear of broken pegs on our bags, but we do have replacement parts for sale that we would gladly assist you with installing. As a company we have no way of knowing how the peg broke off, but we are still here to help. We are not ignoring your problem in any way and are only trying to help you with a solution per our policy.
Can I ask you an honest question? How many bag repair shops exist locally in your community? My zip code is 53177... if you can find one, I'd be happy to go over there.
It seems as if this is a policy designed to be near impossible to redeem. You're pushing your customers to either give up or, pay you additional money to buy a replacement for the faulty part. Yes, you have no way of knowing how the peg broke off but, you can say that about any repair that needs to be made under the guidelines of your quality guarantee. It may be the company's policy to treat consumers this way but, maybe it's time to reevaluate that policy?
I'm really not sure what it is you think your customers are going to do with the replacement parts... it's not like I'm trying to build a treefort out of them.
As you've stated, you have the part needed in stock... you have a quality guarantee... my bag is still within that 1 year time frame... this treatment is way unnecessary.
We have found that shoe repair shops are your best bet and that would be our best recommendation.
jwolf wrote:You being unhappy with the answer doesn't make the answer less reasonable. Frankly I'd have sent you the part and been done with it, but it is unreasonable to complain that by following their written policy a merchant is behaving unjustly (even if we both agree that there is what appears to be a simple solution).
I might be being a tad nitpicky here, but there's that word again, "reasonable"...
The "reasonable" route is to take the one of most convenience, least cost, and least resistance, which in this case is sending the replacement part.
I can agree that Battlefoam is following (I would say Unreasonably) the letter of the written rule of their guarantee policy. However, when there is an easy fix and the customer has clearly spoken to them over the phone about it, I would say it is an unreasonable.
A few examples, since I do a lot of online transactions and take some pride in the fact that I've always been able to work out differences to the satisfaction of both parties...
-An ebay item I bought was not clearly described as to what size it was (large or small). I thought the listing described it being the large one, and the seller agreed to split the difference of the cost with me (a few dollars).
-The reverse scenario, I sent a package for some models I'd sold someone, and it was seemingly lost in the mail (they were in the same state, and it hadn't arrived for weeks, and delivery confirmation said "Undeliverable). I offered to split the loss with them, and Paypaled them half of what they'd sent me back. Fortunately, the package was finally returned to me (strangely, the address was correct, it had just been mishandled / temporarily lost) and we were able to complete the exchange in-person.
I can understand the OP's frustration in spending $1K on Battlefoam products, but not having (likely the first, and a small one) customer service need addressed. My personal style would not have been to post on the forum about it most likely, and simply deal with them directly... and if it cost me $5 to fix it, they might lose my (considerable) business over my feeling like they didn't value me as a customer.
However, in some ways it can be more helpful to work it out here, assuming both parties are willing to work with one another to a positive resolution. If not, it does make people aware of things... similar to a transaction report, basically getting the facts out for all to see.
And as I've said a few times, I believe Battlefoam is going to come through on this to the satisfaction of the customer, and thus it will become a non-issue.
Edit: Ah, KyleBattleFoam posted before mine, and in a rather... disappointing fashioin. Well, as I said, the facts are now here for all to see, but I'm surprised that, rather than satisfy a repeat customer and gain accolades for good service, you would rather stick to the letter of your policy... it is strange from a business stand-point to me, but perhaps you don't want to set a precedent. Still, it's disappointing... I would think many "shoe repair shops" would balk at being asked to repair the leg on a miniatures case, don't you?
Actually, now that I check, the first 5 hits on Google Maps for STL happen to be shoe places that also do luggage repair. All scattered about 15-30 minutes from each other in town. Pretty reasonable.
Oh, the sixth hit on Maps? A barber shop that does luggage repair.
I'll continue to run through the paces... I'm going through the process of calling all the shoe repair places in my area right now (on hold as I type this).
So far, I'm 0 for 1 and I must say, I feel a bit like a jackass trying to explain to a cobbler what a miniature case is.
I wouldn't even give them that. I'd simply tell them you have a luggage case that had a leg broken off from it and you would like to know if they do that. Keep it simple, like.
@RiTides - Reasonable to you may not be equal to reasonable for a company. Perhaps Battlefoam has sent this very part out 20 times and 19 out of 20 times the customer could not handle the repair themselves and ended up having to take it to a professional, so they don't support the first failure step and instead push for the successful outcome, regardless of how the customer (who likely has zero experience with the problem) feels it would be most convenient to solve the problem?
As to shoe repair shops, my experience with them is they will do anything you ask for a price, and they are pretty able to handle most repairs while you wait if you're willing to do so. So no, I don't think a shoe repair shop would balk. And if you read Kyle's response, unlike you or I, Kyle actually has experience with getting this repair done and has found that shoe repair shops are the best option.
So you and I could theorize all day, but Kyle has experience. If we accept that his goal is not to give bad customer service (I think we can agree that Battlefoam would rather have happy customers than angry ones), logic would tell us that Kyle is pointing Kurrus towards the path he believes (from experience, not conjecture) will ultimately make Kurrus most happy.
jwolf wrote:@RiTides - Reasonable to you may not be equal to reasonable for a company. Perhaps Battlefoam has sent this very part out 20 times and 19 out of 20 times the customer could not handle the repair themselves and ended up having to take it to a professional, so they don't support the first failure step and instead push for the successful outcome, regardless of how the customer (who likely has zero experience with the problem) feels it would be most convenient to solve the problem?
As to shoe repair shops, my experience with them is they will do anything you ask for a price, and they are pretty able to handle most repairs while you wait if you're willing to do so. So no, I don't think a shoe repair shop would balk. And if you read Kyle's response, unlike you or I, Kyle actually has experience with getting this repair done and has found that shoe repair shops are the best option.
So you and I could theorize all day, but Kyle has experience. If we accept that his goal is not to give bad customer service (I think we can agree that Battlefoam would rather have happy customers than angry ones), logic would tell us that Kyle is pointing Kurrus towards the path he believes (from experience, not conjecture) will ultimately make Kurrus most happy.
A very reasonable response, and I appreciate it. If KyleBattleFoam had laid it out like this, I wouldn't be taking the position that I was... however, his response simply reiterated their policy, and didn't go into such detail, so I couldn't know if that was the reason.
The OP had mentioned their suggesting he simply glue it back on, so I didn't have the impression that sending the customer the part resulting in a subpar repair was the issue at hand.
But your point is well taken, and I appreciate the reasoned response . It seems whenever any "foam" company is being discussed, we all lose our heads, so it's refreshing to see such a post!
Kurros wrote:
What reasonable repair offer are your referring to?
The one where the customer has to spend a total of 4 hours driving and a good 40 bucks worth of gas? I think most wouldn't consider that to be either local (as the policy states) or reasonable.
Should they have checks your proximity to luggage repair shops and warned you in advance of the time and effort it would take for you to get the item repaired, should something happen to it?
It's not their fault that you've decided your option is better than theirs. As Yak said, they made their policy clear in advance. It's not THEIR fault that you're now deciding that it isn't good enough.
When you claim it to be four hours of driving, you're misrepresenting things by inferring that it's not local. Within an hour of your location is definitely local. So, if you've got an hour each way to drop it off and return home, it adds up to 4 hours, but presenting it the way you did gives the impression that it's a far worse situation than it is.
@Ronin
Driving an hour to replace a $10 model isn't the same as driving an hour to repair a $180ish bag.
It's clear you've got an agenda. Could you keep it out of this thread, please?
If you want to complain about the way the site's run, there are other -far better- places to do it.
jwolf wrote:@RiTides - Reasonable to you may not be equal to reasonable for a company. Perhaps Battlefoam has sent this very part out 20 times and 19 out of 20 times the customer could not handle the repair themselves and ended up having to take it to a professional, so they don't support the first failure step and instead push for the successful outcome, regardless of how the customer (who likely has zero experience with the problem) feels it would be most convenient to solve the problem? As to shoe repair shops, my experience with them is they will do anything you ask for a price, and they are pretty able to handle most repairs while you wait if you're willing to do so. So no, I don't think a shoe repair shop would balk. And if you read Kyle's response, unlike you or I, Kyle actually has experience with getting this repair done and has found that shoe repair shops are the best option. So you and I could theorize all day, but Kyle has experience. If we accept that his goal is not to give bad customer service (I think we can agree that Battlefoam would rather have happy customers than angry ones), logic would tell us that Kyle is pointing Kurrus towards the path he believes (from experience, not conjecture) will ultimately make Kurrus most happy.
A very reasonable response, and I appreciate it. If KyleBattleFoam had laid it out like this, I wouldn't be taking the position that I was... however, his response simply reiterated their policy, and didn't go into such detail, so I couldn't know if that was the reason.
The OP had mentioned their suggesting he simply glue it back on, so I didn't have the impression that sending the customer the part resulting in a subpar repair was the issue at hand.
But your point is well taken, and I appreciate the reasoned response . It seems whenever any "foam" company is being discussed, we all lose our heads, so it's refreshing to see such a post!
I'll second that, and if that were the case, I would have very much appreciated that explanation during the initial phone call with Kiran. Had that conversation taken place, I probably wouldn't be here right now. Since they offered to sell me the part, I can only assume the process isn't overly complex.
I look at it like this:
1. The first response of glue it back on or buy a part + shipping was poor. 2. The second response of take it to a luggage repair shop an hour away was also poor. 3. The third response of taking it to a cobbler has yet to be graded but, thus far has been a pain in the neck.
In my opinion, sending the part free of charge would have been a good response. The A+, number one response would have been for them to locate a cobbler in my area and send the part so the cobbler could properly replace it as opposed to epoxying the broken half back on (to be fair, I have no idea how a cobbler would repair this, this is just a semi-educated assumption... I'll reserve full judgement of the repair for when/if the process ever completes).
On a side note, this is far and away the most work I've ever done for $5.00... Two weeks of calling/emailing Battlefoam, an hour or two of forums posts, a series of calls to cobblers and now a possible trek over to a shoe store for a repair quote. My usual response would have been to give up a long time ago. Now, I feel compelled to see it through on principle.
I'll post a picture of the bag tomorrow morning (at work at the moment) as well as any follow up photos if the repair goes through.
@MagickalMemories
I get that your site as well as this one are both supported by Battlefoam and your instincts are to defend them but, I can't see how saying it's four hours worth of driving is in any way misleading? I laid it out pretty clearly. Let's be fair here.
Kurros wrote:I'll second that, and if that were the case, I would have very much appreciated that explanation during the initial phone call with Kiran. Had that conversation taken place, I probably wouldn't be here right now. Since they offered to sell me the part, I can only assume the process isn't overly complex.
I look at it like this:
1. The first response of glue it back on or buy a part + shipping was poor.
2. The second response of take it to a luggage repair shop an hour away was also poor.
3. The third response of taking it to a cobbler has yet to be graded but, thus far has been pain in the neck.
This is the crux of the issue. As jwolf said, we could conjecture all day and not really know Battlefoam's view, so it's good to stick to the facts here, rather than ascribe motivation to either the business or the customer, since both have the same goal here (satisfying the customer's service request).
If Option 1 was truly suggested over the phone, yet the part is covered under a guarantee and Battlefoam would pick up the tab for a repair shop to make the fix, it's reasonable to expect them to simply give you the part to fix it yourself.
It looks to me like they're not going to do so, though, so I look forward to hearing if you're able to find a shoe repair shop (Likely, given that the cost is on Battlefoam here) and what the final cost ends up being to Battlefoam to address this problem.
Oh in that case fair enough, I do think even though the warranty is limited then they could just send the part if you're happy that that would be an end to it.
Kurros wrote:I get that your site as well as this one are both supported by Battlefoam and your instincts are to defend them but, I can't see how saying it's four hours worth of driving is in any way misleading? I laid it out pretty clearly. Let's be fair here.
Frankly, I don't appreciate the insinuation about my personal ethics. I believe that what's right is what's right, regardless who's involved.
To be fair:
1) It's not MY site. I'm just an Admin there.
2) Look at my history. Battlefoam's only been advertising on Bartertown for a matter of months, but I've been commenting on Battlefoam posts since the beginning. If I've got an issue with something I see, I don't hesitate just because it's BF. I've got a LONG history of complaining about the prices, for example.
Just so there's no mistake - and I'm certain Romeo will see this post - I do not now and never will give anyone special treatment due to their status on Bartertown. That goes for members, advertisers and staff. I call it like I see it, and I always have.
Romeo's a big boy and has NO problem speaking out. He doesn't need me to defend him.
If I truly believed BF was in the wrong, I'd say as much. If they felt the need to move their business from Bartertown because I had an opinion of a situation that did not favor them, then so be it.
My point in saying your statement was"misleading" was that saying you had to dive 4 hours gives a much different impression than saying it's an hour away. An hour away sounds like... well, like what it is. Saying it's a 4 hour total drive gives the impression that it's 4 hours away - even if that wasn't your intent.
That being said....
Reading again, it looks like you're maintaining that the bag is less than one year old.
Battle Foam Quality guarantee wrote:
Bags
There is a 90 day guarantee on all bags found to be defective due to manufacturing defects. Bags deemed defective can be exchanged for the exact matching product. Shipping and handling charges will not be reimbursed; however, Battle Foam® will ship the replacement bag at no extra cost. Customers who purchased their bag from their Local Friendly Game Store must have a valid receipt of purchase and must show a date no later than 90 days to qualify.
There is a 1 year limited warranty on all bags no matter where they are purchased. In this case, the customer may fix the bag locally. Battle Foam will gladly refund the cost of the work done to the bag to correct any rips or damage caused by faulty straps or other general problems. Only customers that provide a valid receipt will receive a refund for any corrections or repairs done to the bags.
Unfortunately, this doesn't say WHAT is covered under the limited warranty. Because of that, I'll presume in your favor that the foot SHOULD be covered.
You said:
When I called Battlefoam to inquire about the warranty and report the problem I was told that if I wanted the problem resolved, I’d have to purchase a set of replacement legs and install them myself or glue the leg back on.
Did you tell them the bag was less than a year old? Did you have your proof (I'd presume they can look it up in the system, but better safe than sorry)?
Presuming you showed that it was less than a year old, did they give you a reason that you'd have to buy the legs and install them?
Is it possible that, in the quoted part above, you forgot to mention that you're paraphrasing the conversation and may be using a different wording than was used by them or that they said they'd reimburse you for the cost in some way?
KyleBattleFoam chimed in with this, regarding the fact that your bag was more than 90 days old:
“There is a 1 year limited warranty on all bags no matter where they are purchased. In this case, the customer may fix the bag locally. Battle Foam will gladly refund the cost of the work done to the bag to correct any rips or damage caused by faulty straps or other general problems. Only customers that provide a valid receipt will receive a refund for any corrections or repairs done to the bags.”
Please note that though the bag was purchased a year ago, we are willing to take care of the costs if you fix it locally. Very rarely do we hear of broken pegs on our bags, but we do have replacement parts for sale that we would gladly assist you with installing. As a company we have no way of knowing how the peg broke off, but we are still here to help. We are not ignoring your problem in any way and are only trying to help you with a solution per our policy.
What *I* read (in the red text) - and, granted, Kyle could've worded it better, if this is what he was saying- is that Kyle's saying, "Hey. We've got the parts here. Take it and get it fixed, per our policy (they can get the parts from us), and we'll reimburse you for the costs."
I STILL don't see the issue. He chimed in quickly, reiterated that they'd be happy to live up to their policy, and you're still complaining about it.
???
Look, I get it. You don't want him to follow policy. You want him to do what's easiest for you. It doesn't work that way. The guarantee is as it is for a reason. If everyone who wanted a special dispensation were to get it, then there's no reason to HAVE the specifically worded guarantee. Their guarantee would be, "If something goes wrong within a year, tell us what you want us to do to fix it."
They have a method in place for repairing the bags. You did know or should have known this before you bought the bag. If you didn't, then that's your fault for not doing your homework as a consumer. It's not like you were railroaded into the purchase before knowing the warranty. It's prominently posted on the site; no purchase necessary to see it. You could've read it, asked questions, then made an informed decision. If you didn't, your argument has no legs to stand on. If you did... well, it still doesn't, since you know it in advance.
MagickalMemories wrote:KyleBattleFoam chimed in with this, regarding the fact that your bag was more than 90 days old:
“There is a 1 year limited warranty on all bags no matter where they are purchased. In this case, the customer may fix the bag locally. Battle Foam will gladly refund the cost of the work done to the bag to correct any rips or damage caused by faulty straps or other general problems. Only customers that provide a valid receipt will receive a refund for any corrections or repairs done to the bags.”
Please note that though the bag was purchased a year ago, we are willing to take care of the costs if you fix it locally. Very rarely do we hear of broken pegs on our bags, but we do have replacement parts for sale that we would gladly assist you with installing. As a company we have no way of knowing how the peg broke off, but we are still here to help. We are not ignoring your problem in any way and are only trying to help you with a solution per our policy.
What *I* read (in the red text) - and, granted, Kyle could've worded it better, if this is what he was saying- is that Kyle's saying, "Hey. We've got the parts here. Take it and get it fixed, per our policy (they can get the parts from us), and we'll reimburse you for the costs."
That's not how I read what Kyle said, Eric. The part you highlighted in red clearly says "we do have replacement parts FOR SALE", followed up by, "we would gladly assist YOU with installing".
I take that as meaning- pay us $5 plus shipping, and we'll guide you through how to screw the replacement parts (that you BOUGHT, and paid us for) on.
A guarantee implies to me that I won't have to buy replacement parts, they're covered. Seemingly, Battlefoam will cover all costs of having a repair shop make the fix, but won't cover the cost of a part for the customer to fix it themselves. I find that odd, but at this point taking it to the shop and letting them charge whatever it costs, and having Battlefoam reimburse you for it (or whatever their method is for this) seems to be the way to go.
Still disappointing on the part of Battlefoam and backing up their guarantee, however. The bags are priced at a premium, and are the best on the market, I think. But part of that price includes the guarantee, and I agree with the OP that they are putting obstacles in place to having that guarantee redeemed. Most people, myself included, would have either 1) Paid $5 to get the replacement parts at this point, or 2) Glued the broken leg back on, rather than go to the trouble of having a shop fix it.
Personally, for a small fix like this, I agree with the OP that it'd be way easier to do himself. It's been pointed out ample times that this does not fall in the wording of Battlefoam's guarantee, but I think it falls within the spirit of the guarantee. It's the difference between a company going the extra mile, or stopping at the letter of the rule of what they have to do.
Battlefoam is stopping at the letter of the rule, in this case... which is a poor business decision in my view, as it tilts people like me that are STILL making up their minds about foam (after all this time, we're still out there ) against the additional investment these premium bags entail, when premium customer service does not (seemingly, at least in this case) go along with it, as I had thought it would.
Just my opinion, of course, and it does seem that wherever foam is concerned, we'll have drama
MagickalMemories wrote:KyleBattleFoam chimed in with this, regarding the fact that your bag was more than 90 days old:
“There is a 1 year limited warranty on all bags no matter where they are purchased. In this case, the customer may fix the bag locally. Battle Foam will gladly refund the cost of the work done to the bag to correct any rips or damage caused by faulty straps or other general problems. Only customers that provide a valid receipt will receive a refund for any corrections or repairs done to the bags.”
Please note that though the bag was purchased a year ago, we are willing to take care of the costs if you fix it locally. Very rarely do we hear of broken pegs on our bags, but we do have replacement parts for sale that we would gladly assist you with installing. As a company we have no way of knowing how the peg broke off, but we are still here to help. We are not ignoring your problem in any way and are only trying to help you with a solution per our policy.
What *I* read (in the red text) - and, granted, Kyle could've worded it better, if this is what he was saying- is that Kyle's saying, "Hey. We've got the parts here. Take it and get it fixed, per our policy (they can get the parts from us), and we'll reimburse you for the costs."
That's not how I read what Kyle said, Eric. The part you highlighted in red clearly says "we do have replacement parts FOR SALE", followed up by, "we would gladly assist YOU with installing".
I take that as meaning- pay us $5 plus shipping, and we'll guide you through how to screw the replacement parts (that you BOUGHT, and paid us for) on.
A guarantee implies to me that I won't have to buy replacement parts, they're covered. Seemingly, Battlefoam will cover all costs of having a repair shop make the fix, but won't cover the cost of a part for the customer to fix it themselves. I find that odd, but at this point taking it to the shop and letting them charge whatever it costs, and having Battlefoam reimburse you for it (or whatever their method is for this) seems to be the way to go.
Still disappointing on the part of Battlefoam and backing up their guarantee, however. The bags are priced at a premium, and are the best on the market, I think. But part of that price includes the guarantee, and I agree with the OP that they are putting obstacles in place to having that guarantee redeemed. Most people, myself included, would have either 1) Paid $5 to get the replacement parts at this point, or 2) Glued the broken leg back on, rather than go to the trouble of having a shop fix it.
Personally, for a small fix like this, I agree with the OP that it'd be way easier to do himself. It's been pointed out ample times that this does not fall in the wording of Battlefoam's guarantee, but I think it falls within the spirit of the guarantee. It's the difference between a company going the extra mile, or stopping at the letter of the rule of what they have to do.
Battlefoam is stopping at the letter of the rule, in this case... which is a poor business decision in my view, as it tilts people like me that are STILL making up their minds about foam (after all this time, we're still out there ) against the additional investment these premium bags entail, when premium customer service does not (seemingly, at least in this case) go along with it, as I had thought it would.
Just my opinion, of course, and it does seem that wherever foam is concerned, we'll have drama
Wonderful post, RiTides. I agree with you on all points, especially interpreting Kyle's post. Which, if we step back for a moment is ridiculous in the first place. Why is Kyle's posting, and Battlefoam's communication with the Kurros, lacking in such a manner as to create vagueness and possible misinterpretation? Seems like customer service representatives should provide coherent responses to their customers to remove any miscommunication about policies. it is rather telling that we are arguing over what Kyle meant, and what actions on Kurros' part would be most appropriate in this situation.
Kurros, I applaud your desire to see this through to the end. Give Battlefoam the same dogged behavior right back and make them pay for the cobbler to fix your bag. I am sure the cobbler's bill will come to more than the cost of the part, especially if MagickalMemories' interpretation of Kyle's post is actually what Kyle meant. Having the cobbler purchase the replacement part form Battlefoam, repair the bag, and then turn around and charge you for the service will surely come to much more than the $5.00 replacement leg. I would imagine sending BF that bill would feel pretty great after the runaround Battlefoam has given you.
Sabol designs replaced my bag in less than a week due to a tear at a seam. It took a couple emails and a picture and I had a new bag on the way. Because of the way they treated me I will remain a customer for life.
so even if the part + shipping was $20 and it took you a half an hour to install. you would still be money ahead of all the time you wasted trying to fix this percieved injustice.
@RiTides:
FWIW, I'm not claiming to have the correct interpretation, just that, when I read it, that's the message I got from it. That's why I said it could've been worded better and also qualified it with, "if this is what he was saying." LOL
@DT777
I am sure the cobbler's bill will come to more than the cost of the part, especially if MagickalMemories' interpretation of Kyle's post is actually what Kyle meant. Having the cobbler purchase the replacement part form Battlefoam, repair the bag, and then turn around and charge you for the service will surely come to much more than the $5.00 replacement leg.
Agreed.
Look, I didn't say it was the most sensible approach. LOL Just saying that it appeared that way to me and that I understand WHY they'd want to stick with the guarantee as it was previously laid forth.
R3con wrote:Sabol designs replaced my bag in less than a week due to a tear at a seam. It took a couple emails and a picture and I had a new bag on the way. Because of the way they treated me I will remain a customer for life.
Sabol has customers to lose. If you don't like their bags, you can go with Portable Warfare or Outrider or other bag companies that make standard-sized bags.
Battlefoam makes wonky-sized trays because once you've invested in their product, you're stuck with their "premium" product. Your options lie in simply buying another Battlefoam bag or spending quite a sum of money switching to another company.
skkipper wrote:so even if the part + shipping was $20 and it took you a half an hour to install. you would still be money ahead of all the time you wasted trying to fix this percieved injustice.
As was said, some people are still on the fence about bag companies and always on the lookout. Those of us appreciate Kurros's stand mostly on moral grounds.
If I drop down $200+ on a Battlefoam bag, I'd want the guarantee and quality to be what is advertised. Hence why people complain about GW's Finecast so much. I'm not saying Battlefoam has low-quality products; people's testimonials seem to say the opposite. However, problems may still pop up and Kurros is showing us how we would expect to be treated.
Myself, I'd like to see BF's input on things at this point.
I'd like to see their response to the "guide you through it" possible (hopefully) misunderstanding and how they intend to resolve it.
Agreed... unfortunately, they haven't posted in this thread recently, although hopefully that means they're just dealing with Kurros directly (as he hasn't updated, either).
MajorTom11 wrote:I don't blame you for making that assumption though, unfortunately that is the way it works in a lot of places... I did not write the above to admonish you or make your arguement seem foolish, merely to give a few facts that would hopefully change your mind.
This is how Kurros' thread affects me. Right now I got money to burn, but literally no time. Right now I'm frequently spending $100 here and there on trinkets a couple of times a week just to keep me from going insane. Right now I was thinking about getting a Battlefoam bag, because I really like their foam creator tool, customability of it all, it's a superior product and all, yada yada yada...but mostly because I need (no...make that want) a (cool transport) bag for my stuff. For over a year now I've courted the idea of of buying a Battlefoam bag...a year ago $200-300 was out of my price range (amazon and priority mail boxes from work were not), now not as much.
But this headstrong and run around attitude that Kurros is receiving over a $5 part is astounding. How superior is a product when you have to spend weeks fighting over what's essentially lunch money? As a potential customer who's sitting here, reading and watching this thread, I'm really taken aback. And after all this crap, even if Kurros gets his part shipped to him it's a bittersweet win. Who wants to go back and forth for weeks like this? This really makes me want to spend my hard earned cash with Battlefoam /sarcasm.
I'm liking just about everything RiTides posted in this thread. A part that Battlefoam would sell for $5 probably cost them $2.50.
And for the record, if my $300 bag broke, I wouldn't take it to the cobbler for some glue job - I would expect the broken part to be replaced with a factory part - so that cobbler/luggage guy better have received it from the company. And also for the record I probably would have just caved and bought the part. Kudos to Kurros for seeing this one through. Good luck buddy.
I'm also a potential customer who HAD been considering Battlefoam for my army transport needs - and right now, I can pretty much guarantee I won't be bothering to consider Battlefoam any longer. It's bad enough that Kurros is getting the runaround like this when he's a USA customer - as an Australian, I don't even want to think about the rigmarole I'd have to go through if I ever needed to claim on the warranty.
Even if BF are sticking to their stated policy, the whole way this issue's been handled is very, very offputting to me.
Best of luck to Kurros in getting this resolved in a satisfactory manner!
For what it's worth, I've had my 1520 for over a year and I've not exactly been kind to it. It's held up perfectly in spite of it. The wheels and feet are worn on mine, but that's to be expected from use.
Ok guys, I have allowed our customer service to deal with this for over a month.
I am stepping in to just put this to bed. At the end of the day our customers are our most important part of our business.
Having someone this upset does no one any good.
At the end of the day we have been dealing with the customer directly. We have offered many options but that is not the point.
There are also points here that have not been made and facts that have yet to be discussed. Again, water under the bridge.
I simply ask that the customer email me directly at romeo40kradio@battlefoam.com and I will personally handle the situation.
If that is not an option please PM me and we will send the parts needed.
Sure its not our policy, but at this point the situation is also not common. We don't have this type of problem and we don't have threads that turn into this.
With that point I do ask the original poster to handle this with me and the problem will be solved.
Kurros hadn't updated here, I didn't realize this was still unresolved, 2 weeks later...
Good of you to step in to resolve it, I'm just surprised it's been this difficult to get such a seemingly small matter taken care of.
I also didn't read the OP's posts as being upset, just disappointed (his phrase). I was more surprised than anything else... but again, I'm glad you're planning to resolve it for them, although I just can't picture why it would have needed to get to this point / have taken this long...
Sounds like more of the same with BF. My own customer service problems weren't resolved until Romeo stepped in. After that, smooth sailing. (I won't go into the problem again, but if you care just look under threads started by myself). There's at least one guy there that knows how to run a business.
I'll start out with the disclaimer first. I am posting the facts below and it is not an attack on the original poster or the following posts assuming information that was not posted.
Now for the facts that I have looked into since this situation was pointed out.
On 4/2/2011 The original poster put an order in with us at Adepticon 2011 (order number AD1067-1)
The P.A.C.K. 1520 was shipped a couple weeks later and arrived sometime in May of 2011.
The customer then used the bag for the duration of time until he approached one of our customer service reps at Adepticon 2012 this year. Since Adepticon was later in the month of April it was clearly past the 1 year warranty period.
The confusion for the customer seems to have been the order date and the delivery date. I'm sure he believed that his one year started from the time the item was delivered not the actual order date of 4/2/2011.
This is understandable and seems to be the main reason this problem even happened.
At Adepticon the customer approached our staff and asked about fixing the legs. I must say that our staff pointed out that he was extremely nice and seemed to be understanding of the policy and situation. Our staff explained to him how we would be able to help him and assumed everything was resolved.
By resolved I mean they told him he was outside his warranty time and that a $5 parts charge would be assessed for getting the replacement wheel and leg item.
Soon after Adepticon 2012 the customer emailed our customer service staff and expressed his frustration with the $5 charge for the part. (please keep in mind these parts are much more expensive but we simply provide them at what we have discussed as a reasonable price to still keep customers happy and not got too far in the red)
Our staff again explained that he was outside of his 1 year warranty as stated by his order placed on 4/2/2011 and the call came in on or around 4/25/2011.
Clearly this was simply our staff sticking to the letter of the law as stated on all of our products and policies.
I also must say that the original poster was friendly during these conversations and never really seemed upset, just questioned why he needed to pay $5 for the part.
Also, our staff was responsive and addressed all his needs based on our regulations.
Our staff works very hard and nobody here is to blame. It’s simply one persons view of a policy and our staff trying to explain it.
At the end of the day I personally trust our staff of 20 plus employees to handle these problems. They as employees make these decisions based on our written policies. It does not mean they are not doing their job or trying to be difficult. They are simply trying to do their jobs the best they can based on what the job and company expects of them.
With that said they do not bring these types of problems to management attention because they want to solve problems the best they know how.
Like any business we have employees, managers, and owners. The chain of command at Battle Foam is a great one and everyone does their part. 99.9% of the time things flow perfectly. .01% of the time we have a situation that needs to be escalated and resolved by me, Jama, or one of our other managers.
This is one of those cases. At the end of the day, an overlooked date turned into a debate about $5.
That problem is now solved because I have personally issued a replacement part to the original poster and customer.
I'm sure he will receive it in the next few days and apply it to his bag to take care of the situation.
The moral of the story is this. Companies have policies in place to help its customer and protect its bottom line. This was a special case that needed some additional attention and it was handled.
So for future reference, will your warranties take effect from order date, or ship/receive date, since you do stock items with at times significant lead times? Might keep it from being an issue in the future.
I don't know, do most companies base warranties on when one pays, rather than when a product is sent/received? Again just seems like a good point to clear up, which I didn't see above. Appreciate the explanation, though.
We base it on the order date because it is a hard number. Custom orders may post things up to 2 weeks after the order date. This is one of those cases and is why the problem was resolved at no charge.
Pre-Orders are based on actual ship dates and do not factor in the weeks before the item is available to be shipped.
Wow, I just realized that sounds confusing.
Normal orders warranty - 1 Year on all parts from time of order.
Pre-Orders - 1 Year from time of shipping.
Normal orders with custom work that may delay the shipment - 1 Year from time of order but most orders go out in less than 10 days.
Again, keep in mind that we don't really have warranty issues like this. Popped stitches are easy to fix and we pay the full amount for repairs. No other company does any of this and my garage filled with ripped and damaged transport systems is proof.
I think Romeo did the right thing here and also took a lot of time to explain the circumstances. I know everything won't be wrapped up til the deal is done and bag is fixed, but let's also give a bit of credit here too.
A few mentioned that it took long to get here, a few mentioned that they have to get to Romeo to get something done. I think the point to make here is that they DID get Romeo, and it is getting addressed.
I have had far too many instances in the past few years with all kinds of things from Sears fixing a washer to a baby stroller maker sending a replacement part where the road ended flat out at the customer service and nothing got done, ever. It wasn't even possible to struggle up the ladder. So ya, taking this long sucks, light at the end of the tunnel actually happening though? Pretty rare these days.
I wanted to quickly follow up on this matter (I apologize, I've not been around the last couple weeks).
I actually didn't talk to the Battlefoam guys at the Adepticon booth (the leg broke while I was leaving the event) although, I did buy a Malifaux bag, a paint bag and a bunch of trays while I was there. It must have been someone else.
Romeo is right about the order date but, I was working under the assumption that the guarantee kicked in when I received the product. In the future, this is probably something that should be clarified to the customer when they are making a purchase.
At any rate, I did receive a call and a private message from Romeo regarding this matter and they did end up shipping me the part (should arrive after the holiday weekend). It's unfortunate it took a month to play out but, I'm happy with the result.
As I've said before and I'll repeat again... while Battlefoam and I were at odds over the original response, every step of the way their staff was both polite and courteous. I'm happy with the final result and will likely continue to buy their products in the future. I realize Romeo is a busy guy and I applaud his effort to step up and take care of this.
Whether positive or negative, I really appreciate all the feedback this has received from the DakkaDakka community... Thanks everyone.
I hate to derail this off topic, so if needed mods just delete and PM me.
A warranty on an item starts on something that doesn't even exist yet? I place my order for my bag and custom foam on Black Friday. I won't see it until after Christmas, based purely on my last experience. (disclaimer, I didn't order a bag, only custom foam, but this is all there to make my point). Anyway, over a month, maybe closer to 1.5 months, I finally see my order. My 1 year warranty is now an 11 month warranty, or a 10.5 month warranty.
Sorry, but that's just ludicrous. It is literally impossible for me to use my warranty during the time that I don't have the items! Battlefoam uses a trackable shipping method (UPS). The delivery dates are shown on their website when the tracking # is put in. How is that not a solid date?
Coming into this late, but my own experience with Battlefoam Customer Service has played out exactly like Romeo described above. I had a problem with a custom tray I ordered with a bag around the holidays, it took a while to get to me, and because of other things going on in life I didn't actually find out about the problem until a month or so after receiving it. I called and the person I talked to about it was very friendly, and asked if I could snap a picture (which I did) and email it and they'd take it to a production manager (or some title along those lines). About a day later they emailed me to tell me what exactly the problem was (the tray had some unaccounted for overlap in the tray creator and when it went to be cut one of the shapes was somehow shrunk). They said to design another tray and they'd send it right out. I did, and got the tray a few weeks later. Was very satisfied with this approach. Glad to see Romeo stepping in here with someone who didn't have such a smooth time of dealing with customer service.
Frankly, if anything in this thread has put me off buying from Battlefoam, it's the fact that the head of the company is happy bandying about detailed information of customer transactions on an internet forum in an attempt to score points on said customer.
Sorry, by no standard of behaviour is that acceptable business practice. Never mind the minutia of this particular case, never mind the idea that a product warranty start date can be a date -prior to the creation of the product- is pretty ludicrous, getting into a public back and forth with a customer who has a complaint is amateur-hour. If you must, post asking them to contact you(something that could have been done via PM), but if someone posts something negative about your product online, justified or not, just suck it up.
And before anyone white-knights to the defense of BF, I'd ask that you take a moment and imagine what the reaction would be if a GW employee, posting with an official and verified account, came on here and started arguing, however politely, with people in, say, a Finecast complaint thread. I suspect that "unprofessional" would be the -kindest- word anyone would use to describe such behaviour.
Yodhrin, it was a Battlefoam employee (Kyle) other than Romeo posting earlier in the thread, the owner (Romeo) only posted on this last page.
I have been pondering the warranty start date, too, though... I think Lormax makes a valid point for Battlefoam to consider. Should the 1-year warranty really start from the order date, particularly with the backlog that tends to happen due to the (awesome) annual Black Friday sale?
That could result in more stickiness down the line... so it really could be better to use the ship date. Might make it a hair harder to look up when dealing with a customer complaint... but you could just give them the benefit of the doubt if it's within a month of the warranty end date, too
I can understand all sides on this and I see where, as a businessman, Romeo would do it from the date the order has shipped as oppossed to when the order was recieved, but I am going to throw a what if here and forgive me as such, but what if the customer buys from a store and then has the issue. Are they garunteed from the date they purchased said item or from when the store purchased it, or in some cases not at all? Also I would tend to lean towards going off of when the item arrives, as I have ordered in the past for my own person and even in the off season (i.e not a holiday or big sale) and it took two to three weeks just to even post to me. Seemed rather odd being when I called the lady on the phone said it was in stock. In the end glad the guy is happy and this is just a bunch of things to ponder I guess for Battlefoam.
Yodhrin wrote:Frankly, if anything in this thread has put me off buying from Battlefoam, it's the fact that the head of the company is happy bandying about detailed information of customer transactions on an internet forum in an attempt to score points on said customer.
Yeah, I know, he totally offered up the date of purchase and the battlefoam order number. With that kind of information being release into the public he could totally have people uh... um... wait, what? I like my privacy as much as the next guy, but it seems like you're freaking out about nothing. Besides, if you're willing to 'out' a company in a public forum, then I think the company has all rights to display facts. They're anonymous, and it's given us basically what the OP already told us in the first post. Where is the problem?
Sorry, by no standard of behaviour is that acceptable business practice. Never mind the minutia of this particular case, never mind the idea that a product warranty start date can be a date -prior to the creation of the product- is pretty ludicrous, getting into a public back and forth with a customer who has a complaint is amateur-hour. If you must, post asking them to contact you(something that could have been done via PM), but if someone posts something negative about your product online, justified or not, just suck it up.
So it what you're saying is that this should be one of those one-sided bash fests like we get in here with Finecast so that the internet hate feedback loop starts up about yet another company? I'd personally rather hear about what the company proposes to do to resolve the issue. This also gives a good (and open!) look into their customer support procedures. The reason why most companies don't do this kind of stuff is because they're not as invested in making the situation right; they want to be able to step back and say "too fething bad" if the need arises. The fact that Romeo's willing to put his neck out in public is a GOOD thing. I feel like you're either not thinking this through fully or you have a chip on your shoulder.
Personally, I feel a little weird about the product ship date being the warranty date also, but how does anyone else do it for mail-order stuff? Call up newegg or Amazon, see how they do it. I'll bet it's similar for anything that doesn't have a confirmed delivery date.
And before anyone white-knights to the defense of BF, I'd ask that you take a moment and imagine what the reaction would be if a GW employee, posting with an official and verified account, came on here and started arguing, however politely, with people in, say, a Finecast complaint thread. I suspect that "unprofessional" would be the -kindest- word anyone would use to describe such behaviour.
Frankly, if they used facts, offered a path to resolution, and were polite? I'd be over-fething-joyed.
I have been in a company that sold parts (automotive performance parts). Our warranties started on the date or purchase, regardless of when the part was picked up or installed. I understand this. The reason you can't use delived date is even though UPS gives an estimated date, this is not a guarentee. We shipped UPS for everything and while most parts arrived on time, some were delayed. A date on the invoice is the simplest way of tracking waranties. From what I have heard from other companies, this seems to be a standard pratice.
Yodhrin wrote:Frankly, if anything in this thread has put me off buying from Battlefoam, it's the fact that the head of the company is happy bandying about detailed information of customer transactions on an internet forum in an attempt to score points on said customer.
Sorry, by no standard of behaviour is that acceptable business practice. Never mind the minutia of this particular case, never mind the idea that a product warranty start date can be a date -prior to the creation of the product- is pretty ludicrous, getting into a public back and forth with a customer who has a complaint is amateur-hour. If you must, post asking them to contact you(something that could have been done via PM), but if someone posts something negative about your product online, justified or not, just suck it up.
Apparently, also "never mind" that the customer himself has already bandied about all of the information and Romeo's doing nothing but discussing things that the OP himself has already covered.
Yodhrin wrote:And before anyone white-knights to the defense of BF, I'd ask that you take a moment and imagine what the reaction would be if a GW employee, posting with an official and verified account, came on here and started arguing, however politely, with people in, say, a Finecast complaint thread. I suspect that "unprofessional" would be the -kindest- word anyone would use to describe such behaviour.
Pointing out inaccuracies in your logic is white-knighting, now? I'm hoping not.
Also, if I DID start a thread and put in all the applicable details -as the OP has- I'd have no problem with the GW rep discussing details just as openly. If you lodge a complaint in the public eye, expect to see it resolved in the public eye.
Eric
Automatically Appended Next Post:
optimusprime14 wrote:I have been in a company that sold parts (automotive performance parts). Our warranties started on the date or purchase, regardless of when the part was picked up or installed. I understand this. The reason you can't use delived date is even though UPS gives an estimated date, this is not a guarentee. We shipped UPS for everything and while most parts arrived on time, some were delayed. A date on the invoice is the simplest way of tracking waranties. From what I have heard from other companies, this seems to be a standard pratice.
So, if someone ordered a part & you shipped it 3 weeks later, the warranty started on order date and not date of shipment?
It's no secret I'm a BF fan, but I agree that the warranty should start on the shipment date, at worst.
Yodhrin wrote:Frankly, if anything in this thread has put me off buying from Battlefoam, it's the fact that the head of the company is happy bandying about detailed information of customer transactions on an internet forum in an attempt to score points on said customer.
Yeah, I know, he totally offered up the date of purchase and the battlefoam order number. With that kind of information being release into the public he could totally have people uh... um... wait, what? I like my privacy as much as the next guy, but it seems like you're freaking out about nothing. Besides, if you're willing to 'out' a company in a public forum, then I think the company has all rights to display facts. They're anonymous, and it's given us basically what the OP already told us in the first post. Where is the problem?
Sorry, by no standard of behaviour is that acceptable business practice. Never mind the minutia of this particular case, never mind the idea that a product warranty start date can be a date -prior to the creation of the product- is pretty ludicrous, getting into a public back and forth with a customer who has a complaint is amateur-hour. If you must, post asking them to contact you(something that could have been done via PM), but if someone posts something negative about your product online, justified or not, just suck it up.
So it what you're saying is that this should be one of those one-sided bash fests like we get in here with Finecast so that the internet hate feedback loop starts up about yet another company? I'd personally rather hear about what the company proposes to do to resolve the issue. This also gives a good (and open!) look into their customer support procedures. The reason why most companies don't do this kind of stuff is because they're not as invested in making the situation right; they want to be able to step back and say "too fething bad" if the need arises. The fact that Romeo's willing to put his neck out in public is a GOOD thing. I feel like you're either not thinking this through fully or you have a chip on your shoulder.
Personally, I feel a little weird about the product ship date being the warranty date also, but how does anyone else do it for mail-order stuff? Call up newegg or Amazon, see how they do it. I'll bet it's similar for anything that doesn't have a confirmed delivery date.
And before anyone white-knights to the defense of BF, I'd ask that you take a moment and imagine what the reaction would be if a GW employee, posting with an official and verified account, came on here and started arguing, however politely, with people in, say, a Finecast complaint thread. I suspect that "unprofessional" would be the -kindest- word anyone would use to describe such behaviour.
Frankly, if they used facts, offered a path to resolution, and were polite? I'd be over-fething-joyed.
Nonsense. No company on this earth run by a professional gets into slanging matches in public; I've had disputes with Jenners, GW, Forge World, John Lewis, Argos, and a dozen other companies over the years, but not once has it occurred to me to consider that one of their employees might stumble across a thread on a forum where I was having a moan about those problems and proceed to post details -ANY DETAILS- relating to that dispute. You can make up all the excuses you like, but I find the idea that you'd be totally cool with a GW employee coming on here and, in their official capacity, getting into a back-and-forth with you in a thread where you had posted a critique to be laughable; it would be a goddamn nuclear apocalypse. As to facts, and a "path to resolution", tell me; is the PM function on this forum broken? No? Then there was no need whatsoever for any interaction in this thread. This isn't some monstrously unjust slander against the company, it's a legitimate complaint, and you resolve legitimate complaints with the customer, not by trying to minimise your liability in a public forum.
As for ship dates, Amazon don't take weeks to deliver what I order, I pay them money, and my goods arrive two days later, on the button, every single time. THAT's why they can get away with running the warranty from order date, running from order date for a custom made-on-demand product with a long ship time would be like Amazon running the warranty from the date that I put down a preorder.
MagickalMemories wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:Frankly, if anything in this thread has put me off buying from Battlefoam, it's the fact that the head of the company is happy bandying about detailed information of customer transactions on an internet forum in an attempt to score points on said customer.
Sorry, by no standard of behaviour is that acceptable business practice. Never mind the minutia of this particular case, never mind the idea that a product warranty start date can be a date -prior to the creation of the product- is pretty ludicrous, getting into a public back and forth with a customer who has a complaint is amateur-hour. If you must, post asking them to contact you(something that could have been done via PM), but if someone posts something negative about your product online, justified or not, just suck it up.
Apparently, also "never mind" that the customer himself has already bandied about all of the information and Romeo's doing nothing but discussing things that the OP himself has already covered.
My mouth is actually hanging open in disbelief that anyone can seriously put forward such a spurious comparison.
Customer, posting anonymously, complains about a company's customer service.
Owner of the company and other CS employee, identified as such, posts specific details about that order, in an attempt to cast the anonymous customer as being dishonest.
In your mind, these things are totally equivalent, and the latter is not a complete iron-clad validation of the initial complaint? Damn, if you ever start a business, remind me never to order from you.
Yodhrin wrote:And before anyone white-knights to the defense of BF, I'd ask that you take a moment and imagine what the reaction would be if a GW employee, posting with an official and verified account, came on here and started arguing, however politely, with people in, say, a Finecast complaint thread. I suspect that "unprofessional" would be the -kindest- word anyone would use to describe such behaviour.
Pointing out inaccuracies in your logic is white-knighting, now? I'm hoping not.
Also, if I DID start a thread and put in all the applicable details -as the OP has- I'd have no problem with the GW rep discussing details just as openly. If you lodge a complaint in the public eye, expect to see it resolved in the public eye.
Eric
When you get around to pointing out a flaw in my logic, let me know.
I'm not a huge fan of Romeo's confrontation nature at times.
However I will suggest many companies do not even offer a warranty for their product. Battlefoam does. I have minor concerns with the idea of a warranty based on a order date, not on the received date, as that is very deceiving to the consumer.
However, have to say. Romeo is only offering the nature of his understanding of the consumers complaint, which the consumer when on a website about a $5 part. Honestly if I was the consumer who already paid several hundred dollars, and the manufacture of the product said "hey i hear you, here's a $10 part, we'll give it to you to fix your bag for $5." My only response would be "thank you."
Lastly: Battlefoam, please get the order number out of your post. That order number is tied to a consumers name, address, phone, and likely email. Its not right to throw that out in the open.
njpc wrote:Lastly: Battlefoam, please get the order number out of your post. That order number is tied to a consumers name, address, phone, and likely email. Its not right to throw that out in the open.
...It's only tied to a name/etc. in BF's own system, where they already have the information. While I don't know that it adds much, it certainly can't hurt anyone here.
Yodhrin wrote:
Nonsense. No company on this earth run by a professional gets into slanging matches in public; I've had disputes with Jenners, GW, Forge World, John Lewis, Argos, and a dozen other companies over the years, but not once has it occurred to me to consider that one of their employees might stumble across a thread on a forum where I was having a moan about those problems and proceed to post details -ANY DETAILS- relating to that dispute. You can make up all the excuses you like, but I find the idea that you'd be totally cool with a GW employee coming on here and, in their official capacity, getting into a back-and-forth with you in a thread where you had posted a critique to be laughable; it would be a goddamn nuclear apocalypse. As to facts, and a "path to resolution", tell me; is the PM function on this forum broken? No? Then there was no need whatsoever for any interaction in this thread. This isn't some monstrously unjust slander against the company, it's a legitimate complaint, and you resolve legitimate complaints with the customer, not by trying to minimise your liability in a public forum.
Uh, okay, dude, whatever you say. BF has a well-known and established presence here. This thread was not 'stumbled upon'. I doubt Romeo is meticulously chasing down dissenters online, and he certainly never cast the customer as dishonest, at least, not from my reading of this thread. I got that he wanted to provide a single and precise explanation of the full issue, especially since he could use it as an opportunity to publicly set the expectation about how they run their warranties on their bags.
I'm guessing you've never been in a situation where you're heavily vested as a small business, or probably in customer service, for that matter. You tend to go to great extents to protect your business as much as possible, because you actually feel every lost sale.
I also find my impressions of what both of us think happened curious.
You: "Battlefoam is wearing a top hat and black cape, twirling it's moustache while dumping personal information of people who besmirch it's name!"
Me: "Uh, they're a small company in a competitive field who live and die by their good name. They SHOULD be doing what they're doing, especially when it's on a forum they're known for frequenting enough to make public announcements in."
You: "Here's a list of all these massive big-name companies that are completely unrelated, and they handle business differently."
MagickalMemories wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
optimusprime14 wrote:I have been in a company that sold parts (automotive performance parts). Our warranties started on the date or purchase, regardless of when the part was picked up or installed. I understand this. The reason you can't use delived date is even though UPS gives an estimated date, this is not a guarentee. We shipped UPS for everything and while most parts arrived on time, some were delayed. A date on the invoice is the simplest way of tracking waranties. From what I have heard from other companies, this seems to be a standard pratice.
So, if someone ordered a part & you shipped it 3 weeks later, the warranty started on order date and not date of shipment?
It's no secret I'm a BF fan, but I agree that the warranty should start on the shipment date, at worst.
Eric
It would be invoiced on the shipping date, we were unable to print an invoice untill the part is in stock. I understand there may be a difference in how BF works, but IMO a warranty has started the moment it leaves a company's doors.
It can also be to help BF by making suggestions that are beneficial to everyone about how to avoid this admittedly rare issue.
What it is not for is for random people to pop in and demand heads roll and get pissed at anyone who who can see 2 sides to the story.
So settle down, and if you want to talk about Battlefoam in general, good or bad, there are other threads in which to do it.
Stay on topic or the thread will need to be shut down, which I prefer it not to be as I think it would be in everyone's best interest to see this resolved amicably, which is the road it seems to be on.
Yodhrin wrote:
My mouth is actually hanging open in disbelief that anyone can seriously put forward such a spurious comparison.
Customer, posting anonymously, complains about a company's customer service.
Owner of the company and other CS employee, identified as such, posts specific details about that order, in an attempt to cast the anonymous customer as being dishonest.
In your mind, these things are totally equivalent, and the latter is not a complete iron-clad validation of the initial complaint? Damn, if you ever start a business, remind me never to order from you.
Whatever. You believe what you want to believe. I'll stick with the facts.
There is no anonymity on the internet, and Romeo didn't post anything that would bother ME, if posted about ME. Especially in a thread I started and gave out as many details as the OP did.
Furthermore, don't worry. If I start my own business, I'd be choosier about my customers, anyway.
Yodhrin wrote:When you get around to pointing out a flaw in my logic, let me know.
I wouldn't waste my time. When you get around to noticing it yourself, you know where to find me.
MagickalMemories wrote:....It's no secret I'm a BF fan...
Yodhrin wrote:Nawwwww, go'an, I'd never have guessed.
Juvenile sarcasm fail.
Grow up and have a mature conversation. Hmm?
njpc wrote:I'm not a huge fan of Romeo's confrontation nature at times.
This is not solely aimed at njpc:
When is the last time you saw Romeo act confrontational? Can anyone point to anything within, say, the last year? Eighteen months?
How long does someone have to "keep their nose clean," regarding being confrontational, before he is able to shrug off that label?
fficial&client=firefox-a#
. It seems whenever any "foam" company is being discussed, we all lose our heads, so it's refreshing to see such a post!
) against the additional investment these premium bags entail, when premium customer service does not (seemingly, at least in this case) go along with it, as I had thought it would.
