Overread wrote: Except these are Chaos Demons and basically everything Chaos cross complies in almost all the games when it comes to the Demons. About the only things that don't are things like the Brass Scorpion and its like - ergo machines.
All the organics and beasties and demon entities cross over all the games - heck most of the 30K Chaos Demon models are from the other lines in FW.
No, these are Daemons of the Ruinstorm, they are so explicitly tied to one particular event that it's in their actual name. The daemonic forces of the Four cross over into everything Warhammery because the Four are in everything Warhammery. And don't kid on, the bleating about this has nothing to do with the fact they happen to be daemons, it's just yet another example in a long, unending line of examples of 40K players viewing 30K as nothing more than a source of add-on units for their 40K armies rather than its own setting and system.
Overread wrote:Except these are Chaos Demons and basically everything Chaos cross complies in almost all the games when it comes to the Demons. About the only things that don't are things like the Brass Scorpion and its like - ergo machines.
All the organics and beasties and demon entities cross over all the games - heck most of the 30K Chaos Demon models are from the other lines in FW.
It is stupid, that's kinda the cool thing about daemons, you can use them in both. They're daemons ergo..should work for both.
Overread wrote: Except these are Chaos Demons and basically everything Chaos cross complies in almost all the games when it comes to the Demons. About the only things that don't are things like the Brass Scorpion and its like - ergo machines.
All the organics and beasties and demon entities cross over all the games - heck most of the 30K Chaos Demon models are from the other lines in FW.
No, these are Daemons of the Ruinstorm, they are so explicitly tied to one particular event that it's in their actual name. The daemonic forces of the Four cross over into everything Warhammery because the Four are in everything Warhammery. And don't kid on, the bleating about this has nothing to do with the fact they happen to be daemons, it's just yet another example in a long, unending line of examples of 40K players viewing 30K as nothing more than a source of add-on units for their 40K armies rather than its own setting and system.
Or, accept that maybe they'll sell a lot more for spending a little time making 2 more datasheets, for a unit that exists in the warpmand hence is utterly timeless and simultaneously coexists with 40k.
These guys having rules for 40k makes more sense than any of the marine vehicles, units or characters that port over. 30k eliteism aside, having a creature borne of emotions, in a timeless environment only ever exist for 1 event?
About ten years ago I viewed FW prices as a little on the high side, but still acceptable for the generally high standards of models that they sold.
At some point down the line the prices seem to have skyrocketed up, way ahead of inflation, to become unpalatable.
I wonder if the pricing has indeed increased astronomically, or if my perception is off?
One thing that immediately springs to mind is the Renegade Psyker, recently re-released as part of the Necromunda line. I’m fairly sure that the price on initial release was £10, and that was as part of a two figure bundle, so call it £5.
Overread wrote: Except these are Chaos Demons and basically everything Chaos cross complies in almost all the games when it comes to the Demons. About the only things that don't are things like the Brass Scorpion and its like - ergo machines.
All the organics and beasties and demon entities cross over all the games - heck most of the 30K Chaos Demon models are from the other lines in FW.
No, these are Daemons of the Ruinstorm, they are so explicitly tied to one particular event that it's in their actual name. The daemonic forces of the Four cross over into everything Warhammery because the Four are in everything Warhammery. And don't kid on, the bleating about this has nothing to do with the fact they happen to be daemons, it's just yet another example in a long, unending line of examples of 40K players viewing 30K as nothing more than a source of add-on units for their 40K armies rather than its own setting and system.
Or, accept that maybe they'll sell a lot more for spending a little time making 2 more datasheets, for a unit that exists in the warpmand hence is utterly timeless and simultaneously coexists with 40k.
These guys having rules for 40k makes more sense than any of the marine vehicles, units or characters that port over. 30k eliteism aside, having a creature borne of emotions, in a timeless environment only ever exist for 1 event?
But isn't the point of Forgeworld to do those nice models that would otherwise not be done? If not this, why would head office not splurge out these models in plastic from GW and get them to feature in every supplement for AoS and 40k, re-writing the fluff to sell more models? The answer is perhaps someone is around who cares for the setting a little bit. This gives me some confidence.
It's amazing that someone would actually complain about people wanting stuff from the 40k universe to have rules in 40k. But then again, you'd have to be a mark to spend £75+ on models that will be of worse quality than recasts at less than half the price.
blood reaper wrote: It's amazing that someone would actually complain about people wanting stuff from the 40k universe to have rules in 40k. But then again, you'd have to be a mark to spend £75+ on models that will be of worse quality than recasts at less than half the price.
Not that recasts are legal or ethical, but the last time I read a discussion over "recasts" it was on an AoS board where a member literally said you're stealing from GW if you mould a head from a kit to give it to all members of the unit (it was about the ghastly Joker bonedudes) instead of buying a kit for each of those heads.
The Ruinstorm demons have something - or lack something - that makes me not like them too much. They're decent Demon McDemonfaces, but not something I can drool over.
blood reaper wrote: It's amazing that someone would actually complain about people wanting stuff from the 40k universe to have rules in 40k. But then again, you'd have to be a mark to spend £75+ on models that will be of worse quality than recasts at less than half the price.
I agree that the prices are high, but supporting recasters is not the answer. In the long term it kills the industry.
It could be argued that the increased presence of recasters is what has made FW raise the prices, but it’s a bit of a circular argument.
blood reaper wrote: It's amazing that someone would actually complain about people wanting stuff from the 40k universe to have rules in 40k. But then again, you'd have to be a mark to spend £75+ on models that will be of worse quality than recasts at less than half the price.
Not that recasts are legal or ethical, but the last time I read a discussion over "recasts" it was on an AoS board where a member literally said you're stealing from GW if you mould a head from a kit to give it to all members of the unit (it was about the ghastly Joker bonedudes) instead of buying a kit for each of those heads.
It's entirely unethical; the problem is that at £75 these sculpts look relatively mediocre compared to similarly priced models and come with all the wonders of Forge World resin. I can't imagine they have much in the way of options either. It's no surprise people are inclined towards cheaper alternatives.
blood reaper wrote: It's amazing that someone would actually complain about people wanting stuff from the 40k universe to have rules in 40k. But then again, you'd have to be a mark to spend £75+ on models that will be of worse quality than recasts at less than half the price.
I agree that the prices are high, but supporting recasters is not the answer. In the long term it kills the industry.
It could be argued that the increased presence of recasters is what has made FW raise the prices, but it’s a bit of a circular argument.
Well, it's obviously not; the prices were astronomical before recasts became a widespread thing, plus someone who goes about buying recasts was unlikely to buy from Forge World in the first place. There appears to have been no significant drop in Forge World's sales either.
Needless to say, this isn't a thread to have this discussion.
Overread wrote: Except these are Chaos Demons and basically everything Chaos cross complies in almost all the games when it comes to the Demons. About the only things that don't are things like the Brass Scorpion and its like - ergo machines.
All the organics and beasties and demon entities cross over all the games - heck most of the 30K Chaos Demon models are from the other lines in FW.
No, these are Daemons of the Ruinstorm, they are so explicitly tied to one particular event that it's in their actual name. The daemonic forces of the Four cross over into everything Warhammery because the Four are in everything Warhammery. And don't kid on, the bleating about this has nothing to do with the fact they happen to be daemons, it's just yet another example in a long, unending line of examples of 40K players viewing 30K as nothing more than a source of add-on units for their 40K armies rather than its own setting and system.
Or, accept that maybe they'll sell a lot more for spending a little time making 2 more datasheets, for a unit that exists in the warpmand hence is utterly timeless and simultaneously coexists with 40k.
These guys having rules for 40k makes more sense than any of the marine vehicles, units or characters that port over. 30k eliteism aside, having a creature borne of emotions, in a timeless environment only ever exist for 1 event?
But isn't the point of Forgeworld to do those nice models that would otherwise not be done? If not this, why would head office not splurge out these models in plastic from GW and get them to feature in every supplement for AoS and 40k, re-writing the fluff to sell more models? The answer is perhaps someone is around who cares for the setting a little bit. This gives me some confidence.
Nobody is clamouring for a trio of undivided daemons, which makes them a niche release, perfect for fw and not ideal for a major cross system release.
As for someone who cares for the setting, remeber these daemons exist in a timeless plane and for them the ruinstorm is happening the same time as the siege of terra, as the eye being created, as the dark age of technology etc. To pocket them into "these are daemons from this 1 time these daemons ever existed" is actually counter to the setting.
Business wise, release a pack of 3 dudes for over £70, appeal to the minority player base of 30k and nobody else = few sales, which tells them not to bother making stuff like this. Advertise it to all game systems = lots of sales, which means make more unique stuff.
But isn't the point of Forgeworld to do those nice models that would otherwise not be done?
This used to be the point of Forge World, but since they've taken most of their old range behind the sheds for summary execution, Devil only knows what their raison d'etre is anymore, beyond Contemptor Dreadnought variants for 30k players.
The Daemons of the Ruinstorm list was very specifically supposed to provide differentiation between 40k and 30k daemons, showing a time where the very concept of a daemon was not as solidified as in 40k. Porting the 30k rules directly would nullify the whole reason for creating a Daemons of the Ruinstorm list rather than just porting the 40k rules in the first place.
Aquilons, who also come on 50mm bases, now look like a joke, price wise. Even more so, that these would cost me 82 euros if I bought them in pounds, but they go to whooping 92 euros per 3. Pretty looking models though.
Daemons of the Ruinstorm represent Daemons before anything about them was understood, they are supposed to be entirely generic as the army list is one of if not the most flexible and creative there is in any of the games. These three are 'Brutes', which are large elites and bodyguard for daemon lords in the same manner as tyranid guards protect a hive tyrant. So these are basically Chaos Undivided and have formed from the racial memory of humanity's concept of 'devils'.
I think they are wonderful sculpts. I'll be building my own, more eldritch, daemons for my army, but they're a very nice mini.
Great if you want to magnetise the existing chassis, but I like to run a lot of knights so it would have been the decent thing to do both. As it stands its a 35% ish mark up if you want to run lots of Moirax over the original weapons.
I've emailed asking them if they will bundle the new weapons with the chassis, if not I'm not buying them, and I buy all the new knight models.
Edit: Response from FW:
Hi Looky Likey,
Thanks for the email.
We have no plans right now to sell just the resin portion of the Moirax as an upgrade kit.
As advertised, the sets are currently sold as a full kit including the plastic Armaer chassis.
I will forward your email over to our production team to look into further but for now and for the foreseeable future we will not have these sets available as an upgrade, only full kits.
Looky Likey wrote: Great if you want to magnetise the existing chassis, but I like to run a lot of knights so it would have been the decent thing to do both. As it stands its a 35% ish mark up if you want to run lots of Moirax over the original weapons.
I've emailed asking them if they will bundle the new weapons with the chassis, if not I'm not buying them, and I buy all the new knight models.
Edit: Response from FW:
Hi Looky Likey,
Thanks for the email.
We have no plans right now to sell just the resin portion of the Moirax as an upgrade kit.
As advertised, the sets are currently sold as a full kit including the plastic Armaer chassis.
I will forward your email over to our production team to look into further but for now and for the foreseeable future we will not have these sets available as an upgrade, only full kits.
Sting itself is quite a basic weapon all told, esp when rendered in a small miniature; paintwork would be where it would shine or not (yes I see the pun too).
Honestly I'm still rather shocked FW gets away with paint of that calibre. I mean yeah a year ago they had some newbie artists, but you'd think they'd have sort of improved significantly since then. I'm not expecting "Infinity/Golden Demon" level painting but that face painting is awful for a product photo taken that close.
IT might look perfectly fine for tabletop, but for this kind of shot - yeah bare resin would have been preferable!
Since the Middle-earth team moved to Forge World, there have been quite a few figures painted so badly (partially from a technical point of view, in part from noticable things like strangely painted eyes) that it did indeed take pictures of unpainted casts, or versions painted by the community, to realise the sculpt itself is absolutely fine. When the paintjobs are making people less likely to buy the products, it might be worth considering some changes...
On another note, I like how the Middle-earth team operates so differently that they just do their own thing, like making these WHW/event-exclusives available online for a limited time.
Just a shame FW's shipping policy for most of the world is garbage (currently 10€ to ship this tiny Hobbit, which doesn't weigh a thing and takes up no space, to Finland), making repeated small orders way too expensive. Added some items to get the previous three (Bard/Legolas/Tauriel), but they simply don't have enough products available through Forge World to get above Free Shipping more than a few times. To clarify, I don't actually mind paying postage, but the charged rates are well beyond the costs here.
You know, it's funny, 40K painting style is not really my thing, but a lot of time when I look at it, I am in awe at execution level. Every knuckle/stitch/hair individually highlighted, every gem and eye perfectly blended and shinied, even when they rush it's often beyond most of players will ever achieve. And that is the 'entry' range.
FW, tho? When I look at that garbage, I wonder what director pulled strings to hire his teenage nephew. Despite supposedly exclusive, high end range FW wants to (hopefully) target, most of the time my impression of their painters is 'I'd have done that better for free' or 'was he drunk?'. How you take something as easy to do well as 30K custodes and produce one of the worst painted ranges in GW history I'll never know...
Yodhrin wrote: No, these are Daemons of the Ruinstorm, they are so explicitly tied to one particular event that it's in their actual name. The daemonic forces of the Four cross over into everything Warhammery because the Four are in everything Warhammery. And don't kid on, the bleating about this has nothing to do with the fact they happen to be daemons, it's just yet another example in a long, unending line of examples of 40K players viewing 30K as nothing more than a source of add-on units for their 40K armies rather than its own setting and system.
So what?
Not only, as pointed above, daemons are timeless and if they existed in 30K, they exist in 40K (or during DAoT, for that matter), but FW had big opportunity to add to 40K lore and make Armless look less like a failure by actually having him do something of actual consequence by making the rules for the Daemons of the Cicatrix Maledictum (or whatever) representing new, unknown daemon forms created by upsurge of Chaos in the wake of apocalyptic tear, but apparently they don't have the imagination or creativity required. If laughably puny and weak warp storms of 30K could create a big wave of demonic activity, then vastly stronger disturbance ending M41 should have done a hundred times that. Alas, why bother doing so when you can spend another decade doodling '40K iz the suxxxorz' on unfinished draft of Cyraxus?
And yeah, the nerve of 40K players. Demanding FW actually does 5 minutes of work to open their new product to vastly greater customer pool (and hopefully lower prices a bit by relying on volume, not margin of sales), the entitled scumbags and their dirty casual money must never touch the holy purewank icon of grognards or the illusion of exclusivity and whatever denials the two remaining 30K players whisper to themselves before ordering 100 quid per two infantry models will explode or something
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: On another note, I like how the Middle-earth team operates so differently that they just do their own thing, like making these WHW/event-exclusives available online for a limited time.
Just a shame FW's shipping policy for most of the world is garbage (currently 10€ to ship this tiny Hobbit, which doesn't weigh a thing and takes up no space, to Finland), making repeated small orders way too expensive. Added some items to get the previous three (Bard/Legolas/Tauriel), but they simply don't have enough products available through Forge World to get above Free Shipping more than a few times. To clarify, I don't actually mind paying postage, but the charged rates are well beyond the costs here.
Yeah postage can be bit of issue but luckily usually I can just ask from local 40k group does anybody care about group order. I have got free express shipping that way when myself ordered not even enough for free regular shipping and regular free shipping isn't too much of an issue. Usually somebody wants something and the good thing about fw prices is 90e is easy to reach
I'd buy that just for the awesome sword stuck on the side within arms reach of the driver.
For when all your dakka ain't enough, and you really have to cut someone.
Snrub wrote: I'd buy that just for the awesome sword stuck on the side within arms reach of the driver.
For when all your dakka ain't enough, and you really have to cut someone.
I liked it but maybe the other way so hilt nearest?
Mr Morden wrote: I liked it but maybe the other way so hilt nearest?
Does seem odd that they've got it round that way. It doesn't even look easy to swap over though as the hooks are modeled with the tassels flowing over it.
That Praetor is easily one of the nicest space marines FW has released in a gooooood long while. The terminator was nice too, as are both dreads, but hot damn this one beats all.
You know, this is another 'details kinda ruin it for me' model. Look at that bolter - both targeter (the upper point above barrel) and the bayonet mount are melded into barrel, bayonet bit egregiously so, it's halfway in. Did the upside down bolter guy designed this? Also, look at both ends of the optics, either it's massive, hard to clean flash, or FW found optics broke too easily and added ugly bits of resin to support it underneath, and that's without even considering optics are laziest possible design, a cylinder with lenses sticking out to be easily scratched or dirtied on first possible thing. DA officers couldn't afford anything better? I am by no means 3D expert modeller, but I am pretty confident I could recreate that bolter in 20 minutes, and in an hour I'd produce something much better...
Edit: also, on second look, do you see his torso above keys? The bit without plates on? It's again, a simple cylinder, looking absolutely featureless, like 3D model from 1996 video game. Couldn't the designer even add a little texture or something to break this up to make it less obvious?
Edit: also, on second look, do you see his torso above keys? The bit without plates on? It's again, a simple cylinder, looking absolutely featureless, like 3D model from 1996 video game. Couldn't the designer even add a little texture or something to break this up to make it less obvious?
Shield has flat featureless planes as well. Not every mm of a model has to have some weirdo detail. There's saying less is more. Busy every square mm covered with something is plague that is infecting GW models too much
There must be some disgruntled Forgeworld employee out there, they've pushed a new product without a WC article! Ultramarines Legion Contemptor Dreadnought is available for pre-order.
Snrub wrote: Ultra dread is nice. A little bit of knife work would see it fit as a relic contemptor for pretty much any other legion.
What happened to the Iron Hands contemptor? It appears they've stopped selling it.
Either broken masters with no way of making new moulds or an unacceptably high number of production errors, for whatever reason. A real shame as that one had great details on the back of the model that aren't apparent when viewed head-on, which is obviously the most common viewing angle.
Knees aren't my favorite, but overall I really like it. Cohesive and rather restrained detailing puts it in the top tier of legion contemptor designs, unlike the mess of the osirian, space wolf, and white scars dreads.
Given their use, how long before we see an iron hands leviathan model? Would love an ultramarines one of those as well, now that the contemptor is finally out.
Have I missed something? When did all the forge world products get an extra £2-3 added to the price? I just went on the site to look for potential models for Christmas, but can't find anything online about any recent price hikes?
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Have I missed something? When did all the forge world products get an extra £2-3 added to the price? I just went on the site to look for potential models for Christmas, but can't find anything online about any recent price hikes?
Are you sure you have the right country selected? The couple of things I checked that I have bought recently still seem to be the same price.
I've a "gut feeling" prices went up by a few £ but that was about a full year ago or more. Plus chances are they have crept up now and then and its more apparent when you only view the site every few months/year.
I bought the Ebon Keshig for £60 at WarhammerFest in May, and they’re £63 now (and might even have been when they were released properly). So the increase happened after May.
Yeah it seems to be on all the horus heresy stuff. Primarchs that were 60, now 63. Kharn and sevatar and the other minor characters now 38 whereas they used to be 35. Wtf? That's a 10% increase.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Well I bought konrad curze back in 2014 and he was £60 then, and when I got Angron last year he was £60.. So this clearly isn't some gradual increase.
Angron was £50 when he first came out. The prices go up a couple of quid every year or two. Same as GW.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Damn, I usually don't complain about gw prices, but increasing the prices on current stock, that seems a bit out or order.
RPI affects ongoing overheads and costs of sale regardless of whether it’s current stock or historic.
Erm, haven't GW traditionally done their price increases a few percentage points above inflation?
Also, given the way GW products are created(ie, salaried design staff, waged in-house manufacturing, waged in-house distribution) and the sales profile they have(ie, they typically make back their entire development cost with their initial production run, which is usually sold through within a few months at most), sales of "historic" products are bordering on pure profit; a few pence of plastic and cardboard plus warehousing in a facility they own plus shipping. There's no real need for them to raise prices on older kits, because I'd wager inflation would take longer to wear their margin back down to the one they were perfectly happy with on the initial production run than the lifetime of the kit before it gets replaced.
No, they raise the prices on older kits because if they don't, the newer kits begin to look like they lack sufficient value to justify their price.
Yeah that's ridiculous. Whacking a 10% markup onto 5 year old models is absurd... Ive never experienced this through forge world before. Making me seriously consider whether I still want to support the brand.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Yeah that's ridiculous. Whacking a 10% markup onto 5 year old models is absurd... Ive never experienced this through forge world before. Making me seriously consider whether I still want to support the brand.
As people have said, FW put their prices up by a few percent across a large proportion of their range each year, and always have done. Just having a quick look at something where I remember the price, a fully armed Reaver titan will currently cost £701, when it was released (about 10 years ago) it was £550, the Warlord Titan in its original weapon configuration has gone from £1240 to £1345 over the last 5 years.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Yeah that's ridiculous. Whacking a 10% markup onto 5 year old models is absurd... Ive never experienced this through forge world before. Making me seriously consider whether I still want to support the brand.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Damn, I usually don't complain about gw prices, but increasing the prices on current stock, that seems a bit out or order.
RPI affects ongoing overheads and costs of sale regardless of whether it’s current stock or historic.
Erm, haven't GW traditionally done their price increases a few percentage points above inflation?
Also, given the way GW products are created(ie, salaried design staff, waged in-house manufacturing, waged in-house distribution) and the sales profile they have(ie, they typically make back their entire development cost with their initial production run, which is usually sold through within a few months at most), sales of "historic" products are bordering on pure profit; a few pence of plastic and cardboard plus warehousing in a facility they own plus shipping. There's no real need for them to raise prices on older kits, because I'd wager inflation would take longer to wear their margin back down to the one they were perfectly happy with on the initial production run than the lifetime of the kit before it gets replaced.
No, they raise the prices on older kits because if they don't, the newer kits begin to look like they lack sufficient value to justify their price.
GW proper though doesn't raise their prices yearly. Well not on older kits anyway. They have went for model where price of NEW kits keep going up but older kits tend to remain same. As such this year when start collecting boxes went up that was rather unusual move.
They abandoned the yearly price hike system many many years ago.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Yeah that's ridiculous. Whacking a 10% markup onto 5 year old models is absurd... Ive never experienced this through forge world before. Making me seriously consider whether I still want to support the brand.
Well, there are alternatives to them...ssshhhh...
Yup. Its a shame because I love forge world models and want to support the brand, but theres only so much undesired penetration I can take before I pull the eject handle and go east.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Yeah that's ridiculous. Whacking a 10% markup onto 5 year old models is absurd... Ive never experienced this through forge world before. Making me seriously consider whether I still want to support the brand.
Well, there are alternatives to them...ssshhhh...
Yup. Its a shame because I love forge world models and want to support the brand, but theres only so much undesired penetration I can take before I pull the eject handle and go east.
If they charged Eastern prices, instead of the million percent margin model they're currently using, they'd get one or two thousand £ from me a year. But they don't, so I spend that in Glorious Eastern ¥ instead.
tneva82 wrote: You realize right FW can never win pricing war with recasters?
Yeah I don't mean I'd only buy from FW if they were as cheap, I mean I'd buy from them if their prices weren't astronomical (I buy all my plastic GW from third party UK sellers, for example. It's still cheaper to buy this stuff from China, but it's not that much cheaper, so I generally don't bother).
I wasn't aware China/Russia/wherever was recasting the plastics? Resin is cheap to recast because the materials and moulds are cheap; plastics don't tend to be recast because the moulds for injection moulding are anything but cheap (if you want it to look half good/produce more than a handful).
I agree that FW can never win a recasting war because the recasters have vastly less overhead. They don't even have to do any design or parting work, just buy one copy of the model and use the pre-existing parts to construct their own mould. Heck most FW stuff comes with the resin tabs still attached. One guy and a casting setup can undercut FW easily.
I will agree that FW's prices overseas are very high, esp once they started shipping through GW and now use the GW conversion rate (and that marketing release was a total disaster for lower shipping).
That said I'd honestly rather go without or just save up for longer rather than support the recasters. I'd rather the money went into companies developing and working within the industry rather than those leaching off it (though this can get to be a grey area at times with some firms). Heck if you don't play at a GW store there's a legion of 3rd party companies like Creature Caster and Raging Heroes making alternatives.
FW wouldn't "win" a recaster war if their prices were lower, but if things were easier to obtain (and not just more expensive the further away from Nottingham you get, despite all coming from the same damned factory (US excluded)), then there wouldn't be the need for piracy.
Overread wrote: I wasn't aware China/Russia/wherever was recasting the plastics?
H.B.M.C. wrote: FW wouldn't "win" a recaster war if their prices were lower, but if things were easier to obtain (and not just more expensive the further away from Nottingham you get, despite all coming from the same damned factory (US excluded)), then there wouldn't be the need for piracy.
This. What happened when TV was expensive addons to expensive cable packages? Piracy. What happened when pretty much all content was available on a couple of affordable online platforms? Piracy declined. What's going to happen now the online model is being driven back towards the cable model by greedy entertainment companies? It ain't hard to guess.
Same thing with games. Same thing with music. Same thing with models. If there's an affordable and easy to use option available the vast majority of people will pay to use it, and the only "lost sales" you get are people who couldn't have afforded the product anyway and so aren't costing you anything.
There will never be no piracy, no recasting, no counterfeiting(assuming we continue to live in a vaguely free society with a vaguely free internet based on a vaguely capitalistic economic model), but the reality is the extent to which any given producer of "luxury" products suffers from it is entirely within their own control because they're the ones setting the prices and the terms of sale.
Overread wrote: I wasn't aware China/Russia/wherever was recasting the plastics?
They just make them in resin. Not great for some pieces (eg I bought some legion outriders and the bike pieces were way to flimsy for me to go to the effort of fixing so I resold them), but most of the stuff you'd want (most infantry sprues for example) are indistinguishable from plastic if they're from a good seller.
Overread wrote: I wasn't aware China/Russia/wherever was recasting the plastics?
Yup. There was youtube vid a while back on how to spot knockoff knight kits, but, frankly, the differences were so slight that it took direct side by side comparison to tell GW sprues from recasts anymore. They're THAT good at this point. And they were in plastic. Not resin kits.
I'm pretty happy with the Ultramarines Contemptor, and I ordered some.
If they did Ultramarines Leviathans that would be pretty awesome, but I am happy they finally at least gave us a Contemptor, and it was well worth the wait!
Crazyterran wrote: I'm pretty happy with the Ultramarines Contemptor, and I ordered some.
If they did Ultramarines Leviathans that would be pretty awesome, but I am happy they finally at least gave us a Contemptor, and it was well worth the wait!
I'm waiting until there's a Salamander Leviathan to buy one. But the Ultra contemptor does look good.
Yeh the weapons on that Dread look completely over the top. I don’t mind having big guns on big models, but, big guns on smaller models just doesn’t look right.
I think it looks decent. I always thought the old one, of all the FW dreads, looked like garbage when compared to the Contemptor or Leviathan, but something about the oversized weapons on this (might be just the angle) is attractive to me.
I am generally biased towards Dreadnoughts as I love them all (even the Primaris one), but man those are some great looking weapons.
Of course, FW, where is that frickin' Pavise!!!
Same, I love the look of this.
As for the pavaise...
These missiles are from early 2017 I believe, so there's a chance the Pavaise will make an appearance. I think they're finally pushing out to release stuff long pending. Just the Gatling Blasters for Titanicus and then winged Ruinstorm Dæmon to go
H.B.M.C. wrote: I had completely forgotten that they actually made the damned thing. Maybe it's one of those things that just never sees the light of day.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I had completely forgotten that they actually made the damned thing. Maybe it's one of those things that just never sees the light of day.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I had completely forgotten that they actually made the damned thing. Maybe it's one of those things that just never sees the light of day.
Like the necromunda cats?
Or Bran Redmaw
Ahh, Bran. The rumour I heard was that he destroyed moulds:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I had completely forgotten that they actually made the damned thing. Maybe it's one of those things that just never sees the light of day.
Like the necromunda cats?
Or Bran Redmaw
One of them is more of a disappointment than the other.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I had completely forgotten that they actually made the damned thing. Maybe it's one of those things that just never sees the light of day.
Like the necromunda cats?
Or Bran Redmaw
Ahh, Bran. The rumour I heard was that he destroyed moulds:
It's rare but it does happen. Privateer Press had one of their special edition models (Skorn elephant monster) which was the same. It would utterly destroy moulds far too fast to be economical to sell.
Kdash wrote: Yeh the weapons on that Dread look completely over the top. I don’t mind having big guns on big models, but, big guns on smaller models just doesn’t look right.
Uh, it’s a Deredeo. They all look OTT ridiculous. I thought that was half of the charm of the thing?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I had completely forgotten that they actually made the damned thing. Maybe it's one of those things that just never sees the light of day.
Like the necromunda cats?
Or Bran Redmaw
One of them is more of a disappointment than the other.
BrookM wrote: Has a clarification been given for this massive backlog of yet to be released models / upgrade parts?
Not to my knowledge, and considering bleigh is dead and what happened afterwards to FW armies and models in 40k, i doubt we get something not 30k primary in a long time.
We’re also going to take this opportunity to reveal the title of the next Horus Heresy campaign book: The Horus Heresy Book Nine – Crusade.
The new book is all about the conflict between the Dark Angels and the Night Lords, which raged for three years in the Thramas Sector. Alongside details of this brutal struggle, there are in-depth looks at the background and lore of these two storied Legions.
In fact, they’re so busy that they won’t be running a Horus Heresy Weekender in 2020
I don't like the nipples.
I don't mind 40kBA nipples. But it doesn't go well with the rest of this armor.
There are no sculpted abs. It's just "boobs and nipples"
Crimson wrote: I really wish they would sell those helmets separately. They are perfect for Slaaneshi marines.
Was thinking the same thing! Would look great on noise marines!
Just find a friend who play's BA, if/when they buy them borrow a head and make your own green-stuff mould for them! Goonhammer had an article on casting your own parts a while ago.
What actually distinguishes them from standard Destroyer squads other than the moobs? Just different pistols?
Visually, nothing but the Helmets really.
Angel's Tears are the BA version of Destroyers, but the only real physical difference is the helmet which is supposed to be an indistinguishable silver helmet.
In my mind, I pictured something more like the current Sanguinary Death Masks without the halo/barbs.
Too busy bringing so much stuff...then when you look at how much it actually takes them to release anything,lol
In last book DA were supposed to be, they were cut out. Then in next dark mechanicum were supposed to be,no? Seem they are out too.
Also, there were supposed to be new AL units in last book, who would have guessed, except some fluff stuff, nothing is in...
Tannhauser42 wrote: No Horus Heresy Weekender for 2020 is a big bit of disappointing news. I'm not sure I buy their excuse that they're "too busy".
I read “too busy” to mean internal restructure...
Maybe. Or maybe they're behind on Crusade, which wouldn't be a shocker given the history at that studio with the 30K books. The next AT book should be along before too long, and there should be some new Titans on the way. But if Crusade isn't ready for the event, maybe they're also looking at being light on content to fill a whole weekend.
don't know if this has been mentioned previously but the Fimir inc the noble are marked as sold out :(
Was going to add them to my xmas wishlist.
Maybe they are coming back as a new AoS army?
FW are pretty much done at this point, some people are saying FW will be doing whfb because Tony C was in the announcement.
However they say it’s being handled by the studio I personally think that implies that either Tony and the rest are being rolled into the normal GW’s structure or that FW are being divided up yet again to produce a warhammer fantasy studio.
Either of these is likely to result in FW being put out of its misery once the next book is out if we’re lucky or before if we’re unlucky. Basically I expect FW’s future to be short with an announcement by January.
tneva82 wrote: Seeing they just announced more stuff in the pipeline that seems unlikely.
There’s stuff in the pipeline from 2016 that still has not appeared not to mention the previews that never went anywhere for various reasons or the AoS team that lasted a month and a set of heads or the original FW warhammer team that got gak canned after 1 book or the fact the entire current FW team can fit in small car or........
SeanDrake wrote: FW are pretty much done at this point, some people are saying FW will be doing whfb because Tony C was in the announcement.
However they say it’s being handled by the studio I personally think that implies that either Tony and the rest are being rolled into the normal GW’s structure or that FW are being divided up yet again to produce a warhammer fantasy studio.
Either of these is likely to result in FW being put out of its misery once the next book is out if we’re lucky or before if we’re unlucky. Basically I expect FW’s future to be short with an announcement by January.
I think there is some sort of large restructure going on behind the scenes that we're only getting hints of.
Here's my complete and utter guess at what is happening: The main GW studio will continue with the mass market AoS and 40k lines including sub-brands like Warcry, Killteam, etc. However, Forgeworld itself is being expanded and its remit changed to focus on specialist games. Each specialist game will have its own department with Heresy and Middle Earth being set as a specialist game with a more fixed 3 monthly release cycle. WHFB will also join the stable in a similar vein. There'll be no more FW40k products as that isn't their responsiblity anymore. The new factory may also give them their own dedicated plastics facility.
That is what they are doing already zedmeister, the restructure to this setup you describe happened a while ago. Except for the resin stuff for specialist games and heresy, which come out more regularly than once a quarter.
They aren't doing models for 40k only anymore, with the exception being if they are called upon to do superheavy vehicles, superheavy fliers or titans. Say for example if there was going to be a model for the Overlord dropship, FW would do it.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the stuff we see but never gets released is test work from new sculptors who either don't get the job, or get it but leave when it doesn't turn out to be what they expected so there's nobody to push for a release (and in some cases the actual ownership of the sculpt may be in doubt if a test piece was started before a contract was signed)
They are some terribly boring models for BA nothing exciting there at all which is sad, I like my BA to be much more elegant and embellished, these just look very vanilla.
I really, really, really wish they would get around to releasing those Warlord carapace weapons in 28mm scale...surely, it can't be too much longer now!!!
nerdfest09 wrote: They are some terribly boring models for BA nothing exciting there at all which is sad, I like my BA to be much more elegant and embellished, these just look very vanilla.
Funnily enough you can make these out of sanguinary guard for far less $, just leave wings off and paint masks silver. Sanguinary guard doesn't exist according to FW, so there is no issue with mistaking units and the SG models look far more like Blood Angels than latest FW offering, for some reason painted red, not purple...
I actually dig it. Might grab one up whenever the 40k rules drop for it. I just pretty much sold off the last of my Horus Heresy stuff that couldn't be used in 40k, with a few little novel exceptions for fun conversions (that aren't valid, but just something to make for fun).
Also, looking at the relative size of those missiles and the Heavy Bolter compared to the hull, that thing is tiny. Like rhino footprint at best, but with the shallower sloped tracks to give it a similar profile to the Sicarian so the volume is even smaller.
Personally think it could do without the top mounted gun but it's far from a dealbreaker. And I'd be turning the HK missiles into some sort of multi launcher as well.
tneva82 wrote: One issue I have is too many guns. Way too many. Not 40k level of ridiculous but still looks way too busy
Yeah - if there's only one crew member who's firing the pintle-mounted weapon?
The one crew member, servitors dont count as crew.
And said 1 crew member is also able to control everything else from the in-helmet hud.
Yeah, they'll be a servitor, or a machine spirit, or he'll have an MIU... I just find it amusing that he's hanging out of the hatch manually firing a bolter while remotely operating the rest of the guns
You guys have seen Baneblades right? Tank which is a rolling mountain of guns right? Heck dreadnoughts can have as many guns and they are only on two legs not tracks.
Am suspicious this is tied to the impending Dark Angels release. Hey guys, here's a tank you can slap all sorts of different weapons on! Pay no attention to the impending release of the legion with the most weird weapons/toys of the Crusade! Not related at all!
Goofs aside I'd love to see the ability to slap a weird warp cannon or radiation something on this when the next book drops!
So another early teens design of how many guns can I slap haphazedly onto a chasis. very poor
So 2 is now too many guns? The missiles are completely optional and one-use each.
He’s letting his (somewhat) irrational Marine Hate take over.
Again.
This tank is positively restrained when compared to GW’s Primaris tank line though...
a baneblade is restrained compared to a repulsor/executioner.
I dig it, the missles (from the looks of it) should be easy to model somewhere else. im a big fan of Volkite soo I might just have to snag one(albeit a ways down the track).
So another early teens design of how many guns can I slap haphazedly onto a chasis. very poor
So 2 is now too many guns? The missiles are completely optional and one-use each.
He’s letting his (somewhat) irrational Marine Hate take over.
Again.
This tank is positively restrained when compared to GW’s Primaris tank line though...
Oh dear someone else Forgets / Ignores I am a MARINE player - hundreds of Marine models - multiple armies - so not even remotely true. Is your name Brian Davion?
Yes its not as bad as a Primaris tank but why does the top gun just looked plonked on.
tneva82 wrote: One issue I have is too many guns. Way too many. Not 40k level of ridiculous but still looks way too busy
Yeah - if there's only one crew member who's firing the pintle-mounted weapon?
The one crew member, servitors dont count as crew.
And said 1 crew member is also able to control everything else from the in-helmet hud.
Yeah, """easily""". He controls and fires turret with one hand, pintle gun with second, main gun with third, drives with fourth, controls the missile lock and firing with fifth and sixth, all while racing at F1 speeds and coordinating with his squadron and taking orders from praetor. No issue at all!
This thing fluff is crap, a Land Speeder that is vastly easier to drive and only has one extra gun instead of six needs two operators. It could maybe work if it had four marine crew, not one. If you threw all the guns into a garbage bin leaving only main gun + one anti-infantry, then changed role to ambush tank killer that lays in wait and uses speed to redeploy, it would make sense. Current speed freek NASCAR gun bin is about as realistic as IG trooper firing four lasguns at once while driving a unicycle.
Also, I like how people whine about Primaris tanks when A) they actually have proper crew to realistically work, B) have same amount of guns as current, real world tanks, which work. No military in the world operates anything like this garbage, in fact, one man turrets (never mind whole vehicles with multiple turrets) were dumped 70 years ago because a single operator was working them at like 20% efficiency, and current tanks have 3-4 crew doing various tasks in turret alone...
I imagine it as the Marine handles the main gun and driving, while the machine spirit controls the others weapons systems with targeting commands from the marine. Just because its a fast strike vehicle, doesn't necessarily mean its firing everything on the move, but the point defence weapon being under AI control makes sense to me.
hotsauceman1 wrote: No 40k rules? really guys? Cmon. This is a new thing, no rules for 40k from them?
Forgeworld's current business practice seems to be centred around minimising the sales of any of their kits by refusing to provide rules for them in a game people actually play.
Man you gotta love 40K people - by their farcical standard, nobody plays any other game ever
If you want 30K stuff, play 30K. If you really want it in 40K, badger the main studio not FW, they're the ones who insist only they're allowed to do 40K rules for things now.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.
I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!
Funny, but I actually agree with you on this. But hey, can't be having something that's not for 40k Marines. It's like people don't even follow a narrative or anything...
H.B.M.C. wrote: They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.
I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!
Being disingenuous there. A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?
H.B.M.C. wrote: They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.
I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!
Except there has been a precedent set that horus heresy units, barring Legion Specific ones, get 40k rules. the freaking Carodon got some. THE CARODON
i mean, cmon. atleast try to make a decent comparison.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: But we know why it doesn't have 40K rules. It's already been stated.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.
I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!
Being disingenuous there. A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?
Because, and this is a novel concept but, those units and the technology behind them was supposed to have been lost after/during the Heresy. The 1st Founding chapters should have 1 or 2 of those items left over as relics because they've managed to keep 1 or 2 functioning, but 'insert 300th Ultramarines Successor' shouldn't have any of them. One of the fundamental elements of 40k is the stagnant technology from a lost 'golden' age.
Give everyone full access (and assume baseline technology) for Heresy era equipment and the whole fall of Humanity/the Imperium loses a lot of it's luster for some.
But I get it, it's another Marine release and so it 'must' be done to cater towards the 40k crowd...
H.B.M.C. wrote: They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.
I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!
Except there has been a precedent set that horus heresy units, barring Legion Specific ones, get 40k rules. the freaking Carodon got some. THE CARODON
i mean, cmon. atleast try to make a decent comparison.
Did all those Mechanics and Talons models get rules when I want looking? Serious question.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They released a Horus Heresy-era miniature and people are losing their minds that it only has rules for the Horus Heresy.
I too am annoyed that the Godsworn Hunt from Warhammer Underworlds don't have rules in Necromunda!
Being disingenuous there. A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?
Because, and this is a novel concept but, those units and the technology behind them was supposed to have been lost after/during the Heresy. The 1st Founding chapters should have 1 or 2 of those items left over as relics because they've managed to keep 1 or 2 functioning, but 'insert 300th Ultramarines Successor' shouldn't have any of them. One of the fundamental elements of 40k is the stagnant technology from a lost 'golden' age.
Give everyone full access (and assume baseline technology) for Heresy era equipment and the whole fall of Humanity/the Imperium loses a lot of it's luster for some.
But I get it, it's another Marine release and so it 'must' be done to cater towards the 40k crowd...
Nobody's saying everyone should have full access. They're saying that it should be available as a relic, like any other FW Marine release.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But we know why it doesn't have 40K rules. It's already been stated.
Do we actually know that is the reason?
If the stated reason is "Main studio does all the 40k rules, even for FW models" then yes, at least as far back as June this year (UK Games Expo seminar) and probably earlier.
Galas wrote: The only reason someone could prefer for one 30k model to not have rules for 40k is just petty bitterness and pure envy.
Fantasy had a ton of historical units without a problem. More options is just better for people to use their extremely expensive resin toys.
Nice ad hominem there, but really it's down to the whole point of them being two distinctly different games, systems, rule sets and yes even model ranges and designs. There's not really anyone crying out for stalkers/centurions/primaris/etc to be ported into 30k it's just the 40k crowd that wants something not designed for them to be given to them.
If you want to play with the Heresy stuff, play Heresy. Or use counts-as
Galas wrote: The only reason someone could prefer for one 30k model to not have rules for 40k is just petty bitterness and pure envy.
Fantasy had a ton of historical units without a problem. More options is just better for people to use their extremely expensive resin toys.
Nice ad hominem there, but really it's down to the whole point of them being two distinctly different games, systems, rule sets and yes even model ranges and designs. There's not really anyone crying out for stalkers/centurions/primaris/etc to be ported into 30k it's just the 40k crowd that wants something not designed for them to be given to them.
If you want to play with the Heresy stuff, play Heresy. Or use counts-as
You haven't really explained why a Chapter shouldn't have one or two around outside "I don't like it because technology bad". Lots of garbage gets found randomly and if you read the fluff you'd know that. This edition literally has a Man Of Iron running around, so it's not implausible for Ultramarine Successor #300 to have found one or had one gifted to them.
Not disingenuous, but my analogy was insufficient. I should have said Warcry and not Necromunda.
MajorWesJanson wrote: A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?
And some things don't get to come along for the ride. Some 30K things stay 30k. We may not like it, but that appears to be the way it is. Moreover, FW don't do 40K rules anymore.
I don’t see the issue with this being a one man vehicle. In real life we have supersonic aircraft flown by one person who handles weapons, communications, navigation, radar, maneuvers and coordinates with squad mates. This done by a single, highly trained person.
A genetically engineered super soldier with literal plugs in his skin to interface with technology that is assisted my near AI level computers can drive a fast tank and shoot things while communicating with his other super soldier squad mates fairly well I’d imagine.
Not disingenuous, but my analogy was insufficient. I should have said Warcry and not Necromunda.
MajorWesJanson wrote: A large number of HH era models, and even some characters, are still around in the 40K era. There are plenty of Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Spartan Assault Tanks, Sicaran tanks, Deimos Predators, and Whirlwind Scorpius floating around in 40K, so why are some arbitrarily left out. There is no real rational reason for it, and adding them to 40K would boost sales and let more people enjoy the model?
And some things don't get to come along for the ride. Some 30K things stay 30k. We may not like it, but that appears to be the way it is. Moreover, FW don't do 40K rules anymore.
Why should these stay 30k though while others dont?
Its the same with the Deredeo, why do those weapons get no 30k rules but others do? Fluff is insufficient
Galas wrote: The only reason someone could prefer for one 30k model to not have rules for 40k is just petty bitterness and pure envy.
Fantasy had a ton of historical units without a problem. More options is just better for people to use their extremely expensive resin toys.
Nice ad hominem there, but really it's down to the whole point of them being two distinctly different games, systems, rule sets and yes even model ranges and designs. There's not really anyone crying out for stalkers/centurions/primaris/etc to be ported into 30k it's just the 40k crowd that wants something not designed for them to be given to them.
If you want to play with the Heresy stuff, play Heresy. Or use counts-as
You haven't really explained why a Chapter shouldn't have one or two around outside "I don't like it because technology bad". Lots of garbage gets found randomly and if you read the fluff you'd know that. This edition literally has a Man Of Iron running around, so it's not implausible for Ultramarine Successor #300 to have found one or had one gifted to them.
Implausible, no. Mandatory, also no.
Designs have been lost in the Imperium for millenia. There is no particular reason that they have to exist in modern 40k lorewise. Not everything that is lost is found again.
You have to understand that since Alan Bligh's death, half the Heresy fanbase seems to fret about the future of the Heresy line, and it feels like every time we get something new the threads about it are immediately swarmed by 40k players belittling it and Forgeworld because they can't play with it. This gets pretty frustrating.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Why be opposed to 40k fans buying it for 40k? Because FE just sees it as a sale. And more money going towards FW is good by any metric.
Dubious.
I'd argue that money going to Forgeworld would be better going to support the main GW studio games. Consolidate the sculpting talent to work more on main projects rather than these little pet projects.
Yet another dreadnought arm or yet another grossly out-of-scale titan does nobody any good outside a tiny handful of collectors.
Put 'em to work finishing up the languishing xenos lines, or new AoS or 40k lines that people have been asking for for literally years/decades (Lost and Damned, Dark Mechanicus, Hrud)
hotsauceman1 wrote: Why be opposed to 40k fans buying it for 40k? Because FE just sees it as a sale. And more money going towards FW is good by any metric.
Dubious.
I'd argue that money going to Forgeworld would be better going to support the main GW studio games. Consolidate the sculpting talent to work more on main projects rather than these little pet projects.
Yet another dreadnought arm or yet another grossly out-of-scale titan does nobody any good outside a tiny handful of collectors.
Put 'em to work finishing up the languishing xenos lines, or new AoS or 40k lines that people have been asking for for literally years/decades (Lost and Damned, Dark Mechanicus, Hrud)
I'd still prefer FW doing their own thing model-wise and since GW does the rules now they might not have such weird point levels. pet projects of sculptors lead to cool things not possible in plastic. As excellent as the Arridian Cloak on Adrax Agatone looks, the scales on the Legion specific dread, Bray'arth, pyroclasts, etc kick the gak out if plastic.
maybe the reason they might not make rules for everything(fluff reasons or not)is that the production capacity of FW would not be able to handle the influx of orders if it was the new 40k hotshit?
I buy FW for 40k due to how the vehicles/dreads etc look, not how they are in the game. If I was able to run pyroclasts in 40k I would buy them in a heartbeat, but since my 30k force is a ways out due to not being updated to 8th(I have no interest in 7th), I'm not gonna buy it. That may change if 30k gets updated.
Baragash wrote: “Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.
Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?
Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.
tneva82 wrote: One issue I have is too many guns. Way too many. Not 40k level of ridiculous but still looks way too busy
Yeah - if there's only one crew member who's firing the pintle-mounted weapon?
The one crew member, servitors dont count as crew.
And said 1 crew member is also able to control everything else from the in-helmet hud.
Yeah, """easily""". He controls and fires turret with one hand, pintle gun with second, main gun with third, drives with fourth, controls the missile lock and firing with fifth and sixth, all while racing at F1 speeds and coordinating with his squadron and taking orders from praetor. No issue at all!
This thing fluff is crap, a Land Speeder that is vastly easier to drive and only has one extra gun instead of six needs two operators. It could maybe work if it had four marine crew, not one. If you threw all the guns into a garbage bin leaving only main gun + one anti-infantry, then changed role to ambush tank killer that lays in wait and uses speed to redeploy, it would make sense. Current speed freek NASCAR gun bin is about as realistic as IG trooper firing four lasguns at once while driving a unicycle.
Also, I like how people whine about Primaris tanks when A) they actually have proper crew to realistically work, B) have same amount of guns as current, real world tanks, which work. No military in the world operates anything like this garbage, in fact, one man turrets (never mind whole vehicles with multiple turrets) were dumped 70 years ago because a single operator was working them at like 20% efficiency, and current tanks have 3-4 crew doing various tasks in turret alone...
What modern tank has even CLOSE to as many guns as a repulsor/executioner? Modern tanks have a main gun and a pintle mounted machine gun generally.
tneva82 wrote: One issue I have is too many guns. Way too many. Not 40k level of ridiculous but still looks way too busy
Yeah - if there's only one crew member who's firing the pintle-mounted weapon?
The one crew member, servitors dont count as crew.
And said 1 crew member is also able to control everything else from the in-helmet hud.
Yeah, """easily""". He controls and fires turret with one hand, pintle gun with second, main gun with third, drives with fourth, controls the missile lock and firing with fifth and sixth, all while racing at F1 speeds and coordinating with his squadron and taking orders from praetor. No issue at all!
This thing fluff is crap, a Land Speeder that is vastly easier to drive and only has one extra gun instead of six needs two operators. It could maybe work if it had four marine crew, not one. If you threw all the guns into a garbage bin leaving only main gun + one anti-infantry, then changed role to ambush tank killer that lays in wait and uses speed to redeploy, it would make sense. Current speed freek NASCAR gun bin is about as realistic as IG trooper firing four lasguns at once while driving a unicycle.
Also, I like how people whine about Primaris tanks when A) they actually have proper crew to realistically work, B) have same amount of guns as current, real world tanks, which work. No military in the world operates anything like this garbage, in fact, one man turrets (never mind whole vehicles with multiple turrets) were dumped 70 years ago because a single operator was working them at like 20% efficiency, and current tanks have 3-4 crew doing various tasks in turret alone...
What modern tank has even CLOSE to as many guns as a repulsor/executioner? Modern tanks have a main gun and a pintle mounted machine gun generally.
The Abrams has a Main Gun, a Coaxial, and up to two on top, a Loader and Commander controlled Machinegun.
Then there is the Merkava, which the Repulsors remind me of, where depending on the model the Merkava has a Main Gun, 2-3 Machine Guns and a 60mm Mortar. And can also carry a 6 Man squad.
Baragash wrote: “Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.
Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?
Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.
Flipping that argument on its head for a second, if you accept that the legion-specific units do not (currently) have rules for 40k, why is it so hard to accept that the Sabre or new Deredeo weapons do not (currently) have rules for 40k?
Well I’d say it should all have 40k rules even if it is siloed into a specific “way to play”... GW has created several different ways to play, with narrative play notionally lower stakes than competitive play... In the lore a preheresy Ultramarines force was present at the fall of Cadia, that cool, how do you play that? -The point is if narrative play truly is a way to play in this crazy setting means the purpose of rules should facilitate people playing with any models... so if GW wants to limit us to only using their products they then need to facilitate that.
Baragash wrote: “Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.
Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?
Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.
Flipping that argument on its head for a second, if you accept that the legion-specific units do not (currently) have rules for 40k, why is it so hard to accept that the Sabre or new Deredeo weapons do not (currently) have rules for 40k?
I think most people actually want those Legion specific units, so I don't think you proved a point.
Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?
Baragash wrote: “Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.
Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?
Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.
Flipping that argument on its head for a second, if you accept that the legion-specific units do not (currently) have rules for 40k, why is it so hard to accept that the Sabre or new Deredeo weapons do not (currently) have rules for 40k?
I would 100% be fine with those units having 40k rules. Anything to get those cool models on the table without going back to 7thed
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?
Can I have Tau in 30k please thanks.
Only the people that didn't bother to read the rules and math everything out. We shouldn't pay attention to their thoughts though and make sure we tell them they're wrong. Also you could easily use Tau rules in 30k. I mean I've seen Orks being used with essentially no issues.
Ultimately there should be just one ruleset and people could themselves use it in whatever era they want to play. There could be some suggestions on what units are most appropriate for which era, but not hard and fast rules.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?
Can I have Tau in 30k please thanks.
You don't even have to go that far. We're still patiently waiting for Skitarii units that we canonically know to exist during the Heresy...
There's no point in exploring a historical setting distinct to modern 40k if you're going to mash it all into modern 40k anyway. It just detracts character from both eras.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?
Only the people that didn't bother to read the rules and math everything out. We shouldn't pay attention to their thoughts though and make sure we tell them they're wrong.
Nice straw stompa you're building here. Actual, competent people capable of spotting balance issues have no problems with admitting half of the FW units are broken in the other direction (aka terribad), it's the jokers who wouldn't spot balance if it was actual, real stompa standing above them, who hide behind bad units pretending it applies to all of them and the broken pay to win FW garbage that outright replaces whole armies it is attached to on tournaments is in any way OK. Because spamming six resin units worth 3000$ easily when you could have plastic army for 1/10 of that totally makes sense when said unit is totes balanced and totally not broken crap vastly better than any potential replacement, eh?
Baragash wrote: “Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.
Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?
Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.
Which is one of the most annoying things about FW - why some stuff (mostly Marines) gets 40k rules but so little else does.... Looking at Ad Mech and Sisters of Silence in particular
There is only the FW Custodes Codex when a SOS and AD Mech one would be glorious.
Baragash wrote: “Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.
Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?
Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.
Which is one of the most annoying things about FW - why some stuff (mostly Marines) gets 40k rules but so little else does.... Looking at Ad Mech and Sisters of Silence in particular
There is only the FW Custodes Codex when a SOS and AD Mech one would be glorious.
They should get rules too!!!!! they where promised then things happened for weird reasons
I daresay the reason a lot doesn't get 40K rules is because studio time is a finite resource and, despite squeaky wheels online, providing them doesn't actually generate sufficient extra sales to warrant it.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?
Only the people that didn't bother to read the rules and math everything out. We shouldn't pay attention to their thoughts though and make sure we tell them they're wrong.
Nice straw stompa you're building here. Actual, competent people capable of spotting balance issues have no problems with admitting half of the FW units are broken in the other direction (aka terribad), it's the jokers who wouldn't spot balance if it was actual, real stompa standing above them, who hide behind bad units pretending it applies to all of them and the broken pay to win FW garbage that outright replaces whole armies it is attached to on tournaments is in any way OK. Because spamming six resin units worth 3000$ easily when you could have plastic army for 1/10 of that totally makes sense when said unit is totes balanced and totally not broken crap vastly better than any potential replacement, eh?
Well tell you what, you tell me what's actually that terribly broken on either side of the spectrum and I might humor you.
Azreal13 wrote: I daresay the reason a lot doesn't get 40K rules is because studio time is a finite resource and, despite squeaky wheels online, providing them doesn't actually generate sufficient extra sales to warrant it.
They used to say that about Sisters of Battle as well.....
Azreal13 wrote: I daresay the reason a lot doesn't get 40K rules is because studio time is a finite resource and, despite squeaky wheels online, providing them doesn't actually generate sufficient extra sales to warrant it.
They used to say that about Sisters of Battle as well.....
Except they've got actual data of FW Heresy units that have and don't have 40K rules, and can see a typical comparison in sales, Sisters don't resemble that situation at all.
Azreal13 wrote: I daresay the reason a lot doesn't get 40K rules is because studio time is a finite resource and, despite squeaky wheels online, providing them doesn't actually generate sufficient extra sales to warrant it.
They used to say that about Sisters of Battle as well.....
Except they've got actual data of FW Heresy units that have and don't have 40K rules, and can see a typical comparison in sales, Sisters don't resemble that situation at all.
No, no, that can't be it. If that were the case, then there would have to be enough people buying these Heresy-only models explicitly for playing with the Heresy rules to justify FW making them, and Very Clever People have informed us right here in this very thread that that's impossible, that Heresy is a ded gaem, and only the graciously allocated money of our generous 40K overlords can save the 30K line...
I don't get why that a model for what is now fundamentally a different game that uses a different ruleset should be expected to have rules by 40K players?
It is logically no different since the systems diverged than clamouring for 40K rules for Clanrats.
Azreal13 wrote: I don't get why that a model for what is now fundamentally a different game that uses a different ruleset should be expected to have rules by 40K players?
It is logically no different since the systems diverged than clamouring for 40K rules for Clanrats.
Those comparisons are disingenuous and you know it.
Nope. I'll concede something like Orcs or Humans would probably be a better example than Skaven, given the analogous nature of the factions, but I stand by the point.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?
It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.
Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.
Meanwhile, we waited for the rules for Heresy versions of the Knights Dominus and Armigers, and are still waiting for Skitarii.
Cyrixiinus wrote: It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.
Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.
Meanwhile, we waited for the rules for Heresy versions of the Knights Dominus and Armigers, and are still waiting for Skitarii.
Well, here's the difference: I absolutely think that those things should have 30K rules and I wish you get them as soon as possible.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?
It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.
Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.
Meanwhile, we waited for the rules for Heresy versions of the Knights Dominus and Armigers, and are still waiting for Skitarii.
Well actually, we 40k players have not gotten support from FW lately actually.
The last model I can think of made purely for 40k was the necrons robot.
Yes we can use all the stuff 30k gets like the special Dreads or the preators, none of it is made for purely 40k
hotsauceman1 wrote: I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?
It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.
Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.
Meanwhile, we waited for the rules for Heresy versions of the Knights Dominus and Armigers, and are still waiting for Skitarii.
Well actually, we 40k players have not gotten support from FW lately actually.
The last model I can think of made purely for 40k was the necrons robot.
Yes we can use all the stuff 30k gets like the special Dreads or the preators, none of it is made for purely 40k
So GW main 40K studio is what exactly? Forge World is not a studio set up to pander to 40K players. It is set up to look at other aspects of the universe which is why Specialist Studios, Middle Earth, 30K sits in it. Woe is you that FW doesnt devote any of its expressly limited resources to delivering more 40K units when the main studio is churning out releases weekly for the setting. Get back in your box mate.
Forge World have more or less being 'banned' from writing 40k rules, right? As in, it was said only GW's main studio will handle rules for any model FW puts out that may have rules in 40k.
So the way I see it, the model was ready to ship out, FW wrote the 30k rules and off it went. That's their part done. The onus is now on the GW studio to write the 40k rules, whether they come out the same time as this releases or a year in the future.
No different to Armiger rules coming for 30k later down the line really.
I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?
It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.
Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.
Meanwhile, we waited for the rules for Heresy versions of the Knights Dominus and Armigers, and are still waiting for Skitarii.
which is equally stupid to them not giving Mechanicum, Null Maiden, etc 40k rules.
the Daemons of the Ruinstorm should just be used as a 40k elite or heavy support.
Azreal13 wrote: I don't get why that a model for what is now fundamentally a different game that uses a different ruleset should be expected to have rules by 40K players?
So they can sell more than 20 of them.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?
It doesn't. But there's a good chunk of 30k players out there (not saying him) that seem to think that their toys should be exclusive to their game, and we should keep our dirty scrubby 8th edition peasant hands off of it, unless we're going to play Horus Heresy. And when we play Horus Heresy, we better ensure all of our models are exact Horus Heresy standards, with 100 percent correct legion heraldry and armor marks. If not, you can't play Horus Heresy.
Spending thousands of dollars to play 7th Edition does something to some people. Fortunately, there's only about 6 people that still play it.
I'm exagerrating, of course.
I sold everything off and quit playing because I saw no point in spending that much money on a game that so few people play. I can help someone get into 40k, and work with them. Getting someone into 30k usually involves planning a Casino robbery.
It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.
I hate to break it to you, but I'm fairly certain that Forge World would be nonexistent if they weren't making those models available to the game that actually has exponentially more people playing.
Again, I'm not sure how it's going to hurt you if they throw the rules for a damned tank out for a completely separate game. It's not preventing you from using it in the game you're playing, it's not impacting your gameplay at all. Worrying this much about people who aren't effecting you at all is unhealthy.
Azreal13 wrote: I don't get why that a model for what is now fundamentally a different game that uses a different ruleset should be expected to have rules by 40K players?
So they can sell more than 20 of them.
That's the point, they almost certainly don't, otherwise they'd be all over it. It's just a bunch of squeaky wheels complaining that they can't have the thing they'd have never bought anyway.
Azreal13 wrote: That's the point, they almost certainly don't, otherwise they'd be all over it. It's just a bunch of squeaky wheels complaining that they can't have the thing they'd have never bought anyway.
Speaking of wheels, I'm a bit annoyed when I have to clean the tracks on those Sicarans. Imagine having to do 3 of them for a Deathwatch army. Granted, I should have at least tried to repurpose the Alpha Legion ones I had, but they were already painted and had Iconography on them- so I had to buy new ones.
Squeak Squeak Squeak.
Oh, and before you say "Recaster!", I'll remind you that damned near everyone I've met that played 30k scoffed at me for NOT using recast.
Azreal13 wrote: That's the point, they almost certainly don't, otherwise they'd be all over it. It's just a bunch of squeaky wheels complaining that they can't have the thing they'd have never bought anyway.
Exactly, i bought a Fire rapter cause i wanted it for my White Scars and have a reasonable way to play it in 8th
I cant say the same for HH where the community is like 3 people here and they are, well, THAT GUY
Azreal13 wrote: I don't get why that a model for what is now fundamentally a different game that uses a different ruleset should be expected to have rules by 40K players?
So they can sell more than 20 of them.
That's the point, they almost certainly don't, otherwise they'd be all over it. It's just a bunch of squeaky wheels complaining that they can't have the thing they'd have never bought anyway.
Looks at my "30k" only Ad Mech army and shrugs knowing he is wrong.
Azreal13 wrote: That's the point, they almost certainly don't, otherwise they'd be all over it. It's just a bunch of squeaky wheels complaining that they can't have the thing they'd have never bought anyway.
Exactly, i bought a Fire rapter cause i wanted it for my White Scars and have a reasonable way to play it in 8th
I cant say the same for HH where the community is like 3 people here and they are, well, THAT GUY
As a primarily 30k player, I really don’t mind what anyone uses.
Usually I expect to see multi system rules for most things though as it boosts sales dramatically.
If something sells well, they will churn out more for it.
I honestly think that without cross game use, HH would be severely limited due to much lower sales.
Also, did you enjoy assembling the raptor or did you get one that wasn’t warped more than the 40k universe it’s self? Lol.
Both of mine were a nightmare to assemble and I stupidly built one for a friend too.
Hands down the most irritating model to assemble (looks amazing when done though)
Also, in regards to those saying HH units should all move over to 40k, GW still seems to hold some fluff in regard here.
Not all units in 30k are still used and many were disbanded and no longer used even.
Some are still around but are never used in battle as they are simply guardians now.
I understand people also don’t want the 2 games to become one as it kind of makes it obsolete, but I really do think that will never happen.
CragHack wrote: IIRC, FW are no longer responsible for 40k rule adaptations and all is up to main GW studio? No?
That's what's been said repeatedly, yes.
Yet FW still apparently get the blame for this sort of thing...
Something something email their rules team something something even though they probably won't respond
Sounds like a plan - if you could throw in a question about the monopose Canoness' gear at the same time, I'd appreciate it
You know how many emails I've sent them? I'm done with them not listening, simply because I'm just one person. Y'all need to realize it's a group effort.
CragHack wrote: IIRC, FW are no longer responsible for 40k rule adaptations and all is up to main GW studio? No?
That's what's been said repeatedly, yes.
Yet FW still apparently get the blame for this sort of thing...
Something something email their rules team something something even though they probably won't respond
Sounds like a plan - if you could throw in a question about the monopose Canoness' gear at the same time, I'd appreciate it
You know how many emails I've sent them? I'm done with them not listening, simply because I'm just one person. Y'all need to realize it's a group effort.
I have every intention of emailing them about the Canoness.
Also, did you enjoy assembling the raptor or did you get one that wasn’t warped more than the 40k universe it’s self? Lol.
Both of mine were a nightmare to assemble and I stupidly built one for a friend too.
Hands down the most irritating model to assemble (looks amazing when done though)
I have only cleaned mine at this point, im waiting to finish my buddies tigershark(OOP one too i lost the piece to an im recasting it) so i have place to put it.
I do hear they are a "Blast" to hear
hotsauceman1 wrote: Yeah there is literally no reason to do this other than pettiness.
Or, you know, to differentiate the two settings. Which are different.
30K is more than just a source of stuff for you to use in 40K. 40K gets its own factions and models. AoS gets its own factions and models. Nobody bats an eye, but as soon as the 40K players can't have everything, ever, at all times and in all ways, the toys go out the pram.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Yeah there is literally no reason to do this other than pettiness.
Or, you know, to differentiate the two settings. Which are different.
30K is more than just a source of stuff for you to use in 40K. 40K gets its own factions and models. AoS gets its own factions and models. Nobody bats an eye, but as soon as the 40K players can't have everything, ever, at all times and in all ways, the toys go out the pram.
Maybe because we wanna play with these cool models in a game that is actually played.
Originally posted by Penddraig, then forwarded first by the Age of Darkness Podcast on their Facebook page and then by Berne here on B&C.
Penddraig:
“I won’t list everything as Warhammer Community have a great write- up about the 40k releases and upcoming products. However, I did have a great chat with the Forge World team about future plans and current developments for Age of Darkness.
As usual I’ll break these down into smaller sections.”
Book 9
This is based around the Thramas Crusade - nothing new there.
Up-to-date news: Book 9 is going to the reprographics department this week and then onto the printers. This means a release is most likely in the second or third quarter after printing, shipping and world wide distribution.
The Sabre kit
This was designed by the same guy that designed the plastic titans. It is his first resin kit and was created during his lunchtimes as practice on how to sculpt resin. The FW team have been really pleased to see the community response to the unexpected release of the kit and it’s rules.
Book 10
Book 10 is currently deep into production. Due to size restraints, the Dark Mechanicum army list that was originally planned for Book 9 is now going to be in Book 10. Alongside this will be rules for additional allies for both the loyalists and traitors - this will be along the lines of the Agents of the Emperor / Warmaster concepts from a few years ago. No further details as yet.
Current developments
The GW offices at Warhammer World are currently having a massive extension added. As well as new production facilities and warehouse space there is also more room for the various design studios. The plan is once this is constructed, each of the design studios (main GW, Specialist Games, Age of Darkness and Old World) will have more space for the various teams.
This also means that each team will be expanding considerably over the next two years. This will include new rules writers (2 more for Age of Darkness for example) and miniature designers. As part of the re-structuring, Andy Hoare (ex-Heresy rules writer and head of Specialist Games) is now manager of the Specialist Games Studio and the Age of Darkness studio. This role is extremely new so Andy has lots of ideas but nothing has been put into action yet. From personal experience, Andy is a great bloke who has a lot of experience within the hobby; a clear vision of where the company and the game systems can go and also communicates clearly about what is happening (within the usual limits of GW policy).
Future hopes and plans
After a long chat with the Forge World team it’s clear that the new re-structuring is still in early days and we aren’t likely to see much change as customers for the foreseeable future.
However, the team is aware of the main community concerns and hopes. The two key ones they mentioned are:
* A cheap introduction for new players into the 30k games set
* More plastic kits
Neither of these are confirmed as in production or development but the fact that the team are having conversations about these is positive. The team also discussed that by expanding the number of writers, it would be hoped that they could release more than one Heresy-related book a year. Once again, this is future developments so only Book 10 is in current development due to the current size of the team.
One final point that we discussed in a jokey manner was the ‘Heresy is dead’ mindset. It was mentioned that currently Heresy is still producing very healthy sales figures alongside other Specialist Games and the successes of all the games is allowing the company to invest heavily into new facilities and staff. One member of the team stated that there are so many long-plans for the Heresy that they expect that within two years, “everyone will be playing Heresy”.
Also, did you enjoy assembling the raptor or did you get one that wasn’t warped more than the 40k universe it’s self? Lol.
Both of mine were a nightmare to assemble and I stupidly built one for a friend too.
Hands down the most irritating model to assemble (looks amazing when done though)
I have only cleaned mine at this point, im waiting to finish my buddies tigershark(OOP one too i lost the piece to an im recasting it) so i have place to put it.
I do hear they are a "Blast" to hear
Oh they are great fun lol.
I’d rather try and assemble an old metal thunder hawk without pins.
I’m 3/3 so far with them being massively warped.
The best advice I can give is to dry fit the hull together.
I ended up using bands to hold the main body together then submerged it in hot water to pull it into shape.
It’s an amazing looking kit but really is a nightmare to build.
Originally posted by Penddraig, then forwarded first by the Age of Darkness Podcast on their Facebook page and then by Berne here on B&C.
Penddraig:
“I won’t list everything as Warhammer Community have a great write- up about the 40k releases and upcoming products. However, I did have a great chat with the Forge World team about future plans and current developments for Age of Darkness.
As usual I’ll break these down into smaller sections.”
Book 9
This is based around the Thramas Crusade - nothing new there.
Up-to-date news: Book 9 is going to the reprographics department this week and then onto the printers. This means a release is most likely in the second or third quarter after printing, shipping and world wide distribution.
The Sabre kit
This was designed by the same guy that designed the plastic titans. It is his first resin kit and was created during his lunchtimes as practice on how to sculpt resin. The FW team have been really pleased to see the community response to the unexpected release of the kit and it’s rules.
Book 10
Book 10 is currently deep into production. Due to size restraints, the Dark Mechanicum army list that was originally planned for Book 9 is now going to be in Book 10. Alongside this will be rules for additional allies for both the loyalists and traitors - this will be along the lines of the Agents of the Emperor / Warmaster concepts from a few years ago. No further details as yet.
Current developments
The GW offices at Warhammer World are currently having a massive extension added. As well as new production facilities and warehouse space there is also more room for the various design studios. The plan is once this is constructed, each of the design studios (main GW, Specialist Games, Age of Darkness and Old World) will have more space for the various teams.
This also means that each team will be expanding considerably over the next two years. This will include new rules writers (2 more for Age of Darkness for example) and miniature designers. As part of the re-structuring, Andy Hoare (ex-Heresy rules writer and head of Specialist Games) is now manager of the Specialist Games Studio and the Age of Darkness studio. This role is extremely new so Andy has lots of ideas but nothing has been put into action yet. From personal experience, Andy is a great bloke who has a lot of experience within the hobby; a clear vision of where the company and the game systems can go and also communicates clearly about what is happening (within the usual limits of GW policy).
Future hopes and plans
After a long chat with the Forge World team it’s clear that the new re-structuring is still in early days and we aren’t likely to see much change as customers for the foreseeable future.
However, the team is aware of the main community concerns and hopes. The two key ones they mentioned are:
* A cheap introduction for new players into the 30k games set
* More plastic kits
Neither of these are confirmed as in production or development but the fact that the team are having conversations about these is positive. The team also discussed that by expanding the number of writers, it would be hoped that they could release more than one Heresy-related book a year. Once again, this is future developments so only Book 10 is in current development due to the current size of the team.
One final point that we discussed in a jokey manner was the ‘Heresy is dead’ mindset. It was mentioned that currently Heresy is still producing very healthy sales figures alongside other Specialist Games and the successes of all the games is allowing the company to invest heavily into new facilities and staff. One member of the team stated that there are so many long-plans for the Heresy that they expect that within two years, “everyone will be playing Heresy”.
Sounds like good news overall. Hopefully the HH is getting back on track after the last few years of tragedy and disruption. If the game gets even half the support of stuff like Necromunda, Kill Team and Warcry I would be very happy.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Yeah there is literally no reason to do this other than pettiness.
Or, you know, to differentiate the two settings. Which are different.
30K is more than just a source of stuff for you to use in 40K. 40K gets its own factions and models. AoS gets its own factions and models. Nobody bats an eye, but as soon as the 40K players can't have everything, ever, at all times and in all ways, the toys go out the pram.
Maybe because we wanna play with these cool models in a game that is actually played.
Good. So you can play them in 30k It's played and it's superior rule set. Win-win!
hotsauceman1 wrote: Yeah there is literally no reason to do this other than pettiness.
Or, you know, to differentiate the two settings. Which are different.
30K is more than just a source of stuff for you to use in 40K. 40K gets its own factions and models. AoS gets its own factions and models. Nobody bats an eye, but as soon as the 40K players can't have everything, ever, at all times and in all ways, the toys go out the pram.
Maybe because we wanna play with these cool models in a game that is actually played.
Good. So you can play them in 30k It's played and it's superior rule set. Win-win!
Also, considering the fact that all the weapons are currently out of stock on UK Forgeworld along with comments above on heresy having healthy sales figures, I'd say he's missing out on a popular system
hotsauceman1 wrote: Yeah there is literally no reason to do this other than pettiness.
Or, you know, to differentiate the two settings. Which are different.
30K is more than just a source of stuff for you to use in 40K. 40K gets its own factions and models. AoS gets its own factions and models. Nobody bats an eye, but as soon as the 40K players can't have everything, ever, at all times and in all ways, the toys go out the pram.
Maybe because we wanna play with these cool models in a game that is actually played.
Good. So you can play them in 30k It's played and it's superior rule set. Win-win!
Nothing against HH having their own stuff, but it is very obvious that make rules sets for 2 system you massively open your customer base. I don't have any interest in 30k but the new daemon fellas would be awesome for me in 40k, but at that price point they're not worth it as proxies for something without their own unique profiles.
You only have to look at the number of debates sparked by Leviathan Dreads in 40k to realise if a 30k unit is competitive in 40k they'll sell lots.
It’s less damaging now quad mortar phosphex isn’t lower AP any more lol.
Tired of running into triple quad mortar batteries at tournaments lol.
It’s was basically a game of select a unit for each mortar unit and remove it from the board instantly.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Yeah there is literally no reason to do this other than pettiness.
Or, you know, to differentiate the two settings. Which are different.
30K is more than just a source of stuff for you to use in 40K. 40K gets its own factions and models. AoS gets its own factions and models. Nobody bats an eye, but as soon as the 40K players can't have everything, ever, at all times and in all ways, the toys go out the pram.
Maybe because we wanna play with these cool models in a game that is actually played.
Good. So you can play them in 30k It's played and it's superior rule set. Win-win!
Nothing against HH having their own stuff, but it is very obvious that make rules sets for 2 system you massively open your customer base. I don't have any interest in 30k but the new daemon fellas would be awesome for me in 40k, but at that price point they're not worth it as proxies for something without their own unique profiles.
You only have to look at the number of debates sparked by Leviathan Dreads in 40k to realise if a 30k unit is competitive in 40k they'll sell lots.
Out of curiosity, do you guys actually know that that unit can be represented by any model with a specific base size? Or that that holds true for the entire army list? Or that having it in 40k would be redundant to the existing 40k daemon list because it's literally designed so that you can use 40k daemon models in it, as well as Sigmar models and third party models?
I really wish there were more 'medium' daemons so Ruinstorm ones would have been welcome. It has always has bugged me that (aside characters) daemons are either human-sized one wound wimps, or massive giant monstrosities that eat tanks. An unit (or several) of ogre-sized daemons is something that should exist in 40K and AoS as well.
I read the news this morning and had a chuckle. It's always the same from them: "Yeah, we know, it would be cool, but nothing is in production". Which p/m means "you will sooner forget about what we said, than see us do it"
over this.
What modern tank has even CLOSE to as many guns as a repulsor/executioner? Modern tanks have a main gun and a pintle mounted machine gun generally.
It's played and it's superior rule set. Win-win!