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Post by: Shepherd23
Has anyone noticed that the Defiance forums have been down ever since the guy who sold them their casting system came on and expressed displeasure about the delays and the lack of quality with the few sets that have shipped? This was right before the holidays. Nothing has happened since then. I find it to much of a coincidence To be maintenance.
Luckily, I don't have any backorders in. I got my marines and had planned on ordering more, but I have heard that even they are delayed. This seems like a rather worrying set of circumstances.
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Post by: Dawnbringer
I feel as though the owners really just should have gone to someone like Warlord and worked with them rather than trying to start a new company. There models are pretty good, and there concepts are nice, but it seems they are just hopeless when it comes to the business side of things.
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Post by: AlexHolker
It is a shame, but not unexpected. Still a pain in the ass, though - it's 2013 now, and I'm no closer to getting that multipart plastic female soldiers kit than I was at the start of 2012.
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Post by: Shepherd23
And I am no closer to getting the battle egg! I want that battle suit so badly.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Was after at least one set of the Germans, but it looks like I made the right choice not to pre-order. Sad, but as Dawnbringer said, they just don't seem to have as good a handle on the business side of things.
That and the fact of Dreamcast now putting out a superior product, I think they are in bad shape unless they get their act together.
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Post by: Malika2
It's kinda hard to beat Dreamcast when it comes to futuristic Nazis...
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Post by: judgedoug
The SEGA Dreamcast is manufacturing miniatures now?
On the Defiance side of things, I must have one of the only boxes of Bugs ever made (which came with a baggy of Panzergrenadiers too)
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Post by: glon52
can we get a link to the dreamcast minis? Quick google search showed nothing
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Post by: Tannhauser42
I'm pretty sure they meant to say Dreamforge. I'm posting this from phone so I can't create a link easily, but a search for dreamforge games will find it.
Edit: ninja'd
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Thats because the companies name is dreamforge. Did they ever release the germans? I planned to buy a set just because, maybe expand them to an IG army, but since im likely to end up playing Iron Core, maybe i'll just dual use the Dreamforge eisenkern minis instead.
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Post by: glon52
thanks,
I assume they are in the 28mm scale. Or more to the point, will be when released.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
Sad, but not really surprising unfortunately. They had soom cool ideas, but you can only screw up so many times till people just wont trust you anymore. I'd be very surprised if they ever pop up again, they've got a lot of bad press from this.
I pulled out when the bugs were getting delayed, I had a feeling it would all be downhill from there. Unfortunately I was right.
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Post by: CURNOW
336 page thread on frothers about it seems tony one of th main blokes is completely useless .
http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36589
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Post by: Synthetik
 judgedoug wrote:The SEGA Dreamcast is manufacturing miniatures now?
On the Defiance side of things, I must have one of the only boxes of Bugs ever made (which came with a baggy of Panzergrenadiers too)
got two of them and I dont think there very good...
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Post by: Shepherd23
I have never even heard of frothers. They have a rather colorful language setting over there and none of them seem to have anything pleasant to say about Tony in the last 3 pages.
I really am disappointed with this whole thing. It really does seem that Defiance is going to go tits up and this is just the beginning of the end. I guess my biggest fear is that the battle egg design is now lost and we will never see it made.
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Post by: Ma55ter_fett
Shepherd23 wrote:I have never even heard of frothers. They have a rather colorful language setting over there and none of them seem to have anything pleasant to say about Tony in the last 3 pages. I really am disappointed with this whole thing. It really does seem that Defiance is going to go tits up and this is just the beginning of the end. I guess my biggest fear is that the battle egg design is now lost and we will never see it made.
My favorite quote from that thread Sane max not logged in wrote: HiveTrygon wrote:
No. I was given part of the company share freely from Tony
Wow, a share in Defiance Games! One day you will be able to sell that and buy a pack of biscuits or something! HiveTrygon wrote:
I have no idea why it has problems for them
I do - Tony Reidy could  up anything. You ever see him Walking, talking & breathing at the same time? It's beyond him. He has to whistle when he goes to the toilet so he knows which end to out of. "Hi guys, Tony here, well, i know it's been a few weeks since you paid me to boil you an egg, but i have hit teething problems with the cooking medium. Rather than using boring old water, i decided to try something new - I am boiling the egg in Petrol. It's the wave of the future, but the handicapped kids I hired to do the work are reporting... problems......''
Ah, lolz like these keep the docter bills down better than apples 
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Post by: AlexHolker
Shepherd23 wrote:I guess my biggest fear is that the battle egg design is now lost and we will never see it made.
The battle egg was based on an existing design, and was better before Tony started tinkering with it. There's another manufacturer, whose name starts with A and previously released a really tiny 4*4, that I believe is drawing on the same inspiration.
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Post by: Fafnir
 AlexHolker wrote:Shepherd23 wrote:I guess my biggest fear is that the battle egg design is now lost and we will never see it made.
The battle egg was based on an existing design, and was better before Tony started tinkering with it. There's another manufacturer, whose name starts with A and previously released a really tiny 4*4, that I believe is drawing on the same inspiration.
I know which one you're talking about, and honestly, I prefered Defiance's design. Also, I would have loved to see that German walker come to fruition. Its concept art looks classy as hell.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
So have their Germans been sent out to those who have pre-ordered or? Not exactly sure what the situation is.
And I also preferred the DG egg suit, and the walker does look great. I just don't know if it will ever be made though.
And sorry about my post before. I meant Dreamforge, not Dreamcast. Posting after midnight on New Years is a little difficult it seems 
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Post by: Blackhoof
Such a shame...
those bugs and germans were nice
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Post by: Shepherd23
So far, the only item to reliably get into people's hands have been the plastic marines. I have heard that even they are not being shipped, currently.
Antinocites Workshop is the company that does another battle suit, but it is not even close to the battle egg design. Similar though.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Some of their Germans had shipped (from the stuff I was reading on their forums before they went down) but certainly not all of the pre-orders
but that was how it went with the marines (which all went out eventually)
and the bugs (which I think hadn't completed pre-order fullfilment before their production stalled)
I thnik it's not impossible that the company is still up and running and the loss of the forum may be either accidental (official reps never showed up on it very often), or because they just got fed up of the complaints, or some other reason
I guess it's a case of watch with space, and hope to buy from a shop.. preorders are NOT the way to go from past performance even if the company's here to stay
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Post by: Kroothawk
So the questions are:
1.) Who is Tony blaming now for his failure?
2.) Who is now stealing the Machinenkrieger design if not Defiance Games? 
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Post by: NAVARRO
 Kroothawk wrote:So the questions are:
1.) Who is Tony blaming now for his failure?
2.) Who is now stealing the Machinenkrieger design if not Defiance Games?
1) To a degree he already said it was Ed, which is just ridiculous.
People who blame others for their own bad practices or incompetence are becoming quite common in this industry...
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Post by: scarletsquig
 NAVARRO wrote:
1) To a degree he already said it was Ed, which is just ridiculous.
Lol, I said DFG were going to blame Ed/ Trollforged for their inevitable screw-up when he first started getting involved with them 6 months or so ago.
I was hoping they'd at least last long enough to make a Kickstarter, *that* would have been hilarious.
How the hell does Tony Reidy manage to keep convincing people to give him piles of preorder money to repeatedly fail?
At least there's no current pre-orders in place, right? I mean, the USMC and bugs have at least shipped, and that's it for now?
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Post by: Shepherd23
Only a few bugs and Germans have shipped. Very few from what I understand.
As for blame, tony has stated that the learning curve on the troll forged system was greater than expected. I do not recall seeing anything where he specifically blamed troll forged for the delays.
As to the site being down by accident, I find it to be way to much of a coincidence that right after Ed comes to defend his name, when people started attacking his system as being responsible, the defiance forums go down and haven't been back for almost two weeks. It is true that their official presence wasn't felt often, Howard was on the site, posting, about once a week and Tony was online viewing it daily. I believe that this is either, tony trying to do damage control by preventing bad press on the forums...FAIL! Or it's the beginning of the end for Defiance. Either situation isn't good.
If its the end then a lot of ore order people are gonna get screwed royally. If its damage control, there are many ways that are better at dealing with it. Tony could have been more forthcoming with news and updates for one and just maintained.a better level of communication. It is one thing that people constantly asked for. Howard always seemed to try, but constantly had the excuse of being several hours away from where production was.
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Post by: CptJake
Shepherd23 wrote:So far, the only item to reliably get into people's hands have been the plastic marines. I have heard that even they are not being shipped, currently.
Antenocitis Workshop is the company that does another battle suit, but it is not even close to the battle egg design. Similar though. Except it is available for purchase, and Antenocitis has a record of actually delivering what people pay for and has an extensive product line which actually expands and is actually sold. But, yeah, they are similar.
 Automatically Appended Next Post: Shepherd23 wrote:It is true that their official presence wasn't felt often, Howard was on the site, posting, about once a week and Tony was online viewing it daily. I believe that this is either, tony trying to do damage control by preventing bad press on the forums...FAIL! Or it's the beginning of the end for Defiance. Either situation isn't good.
If its the end then a lot of ore order people are gonna get screwed royally. If its damage control, there are many ways that are better at dealing with it. Tony could have been more forthcoming with news and updates for one and just maintained.a better level of communication. It is one thing that people constantly asked for. Howard always seemed to try, but constantly had the excuse of being several hours away from where production was.
I feel bad for Howard. I'm amazed he allowed himself to get involved with this.
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Post by: kenshin620
Saw some similar topics of discussion on other forums, doesnt look too good. Some people have gotten their bugs and germans but doesnt seem like a whole lot. Really doubtful they can turn this around anytime soon, if at all
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Post by: Bolognesus
16 quid a pop for those AW suits though, isn't it? Really, I won't be preordering any Defiance stuff but I would still really, really like for those things to actually hit distribution some day - it would make fielding a squad or two affordable...
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Post by: Shepherd23
Antinocites does have a very good rep and he has been around for sometime now. I do like his suit, but I loves the Defiance suits concept art. I don't know what it was, but I loved it from day one. Probably because it couldn't look any different from a space marine if it tried. Always hated GW marine models. They just look wrong somehow.
To my understanding, Howard was involved with the last company as well. I may be mistaken though.
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Post by: NAVARRO
Shepherd23 wrote:Only a few bugs and Germans have shipped. Very few from what I understand.
As for blame, tony has stated that the learning curve on the troll forged system was greater than expected. I do not recall seeing anything where he specifically blamed troll forged for the delays.
s.
Dags wrote:
Can't log in at work wrote:
Ttbhj spoke of the delays....and had an explanation that didn't put too much on his own shoulders:
"This was a new process that Ed was still perfecting"
"It was great to start with these (bugs) as it was the perfect test of the system and helped Ed iron out a lot of issues"
Anyone who's seen a Trollcast Sasha knows there aren't any issues to iron out; they're fething superb
Ed answer: My process works fine for me, them and their system not so well it appears but again most of that has been not taking in my suggestions. I have no idea why it has problems for them other than the way they have so many parts which then requires them to box more but for sorting out the process I've done my job here and I'm sorting THEIR problems out not mine. I'm not to fond of the situation but doing what I can to make it work for now. No big deal to me as everyone else coming in is happy and if they would have paid to get production up and running here with me things would be going smooth now. I did however not wish to take that job on as I was afraid this might happen in the end, so now they are responsible for taking money and full filling the orders. There is a lot of good in this deal but again I'm not a complete idiot so had to test the waters and see what happens. I believe Tony is trying hard but still not sure they can pull if off anymore. The bad press has been to long and this is probably the nail in his coffin. It's a shame.
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Post by: RiTides
So, I don't know the background here- did they have Ed from Trollforged give them some training / tips last year, and tried to replicate his process and do it in-house rather than having him do it, or...? That's a complete black box to me.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Way I read it, they basically paid Ed for the rights to use the process and to help them a bit in setting it up but were either too cheap to pay him to set it up entirely / do production for them or too determined to do it themselves to do so.
So basically Ed gave them a working process, helped them out here and there etc but if you have an incompetent monkey working the mold making and spincasting processes it's still going to bomb, no matter how good the process is.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
They had plans to get large scale 'plastic' spin casting going in house
(which was a smart move as they were clearly having problems getting stuff done in a timely fashion)
Ed from Trollforged came in to help with this providing advise, expertise and a varient of his plastic formula (NOT the exact material he was using though). For this the gave (or offered) a share in the company (not sure if Ed accepted this).
Now this is where it gets complicated, and reading between the lines of various forum post Ed may well have told them that the bug sculpts as is would be a big problem, and that they should pull them for re-design (too many parts, legs too thin etc), and concentrated on developing skills etc on something more likely to work (I could be wrong on all this, remember)
At this point Defiance seems to have gone their own way trying to get going own their own with production, offering the germans for pre-order, trying to fulfill on the bugs and (probably, I'm guessing here, ignoring Ed's advice on the best way to handle the material)
Since even Ed can't always get the masters/casting right (he's had to redo some of the masters for Tre that didn't work out, and Tre's had to resculpt stuff that wouldn't cast right) beginers using it will probably struggle especially if they won't re-do designs to to fit the casting method.
Again I'll say this is all gueswork and suposition based on what I've read, but probably aproaching the truth
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Post by: CptJake
It would appear the Defiance webstore still accepts orders for all their products. Isn't that nice?
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Post by: Theduke07
I was only looking forward to their female marines but that wasn't even more than a concept
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Post by: Shepherd23
I believe that a great many people are waiting for a decent female infantry model. How no one has made this by now is beyond me. I know that it wont sell billions of sprues, but I do believe they would sell enough to make the set worth while.
And as nice as the AW suit is, 16 Quid is a rich amount for me. That translates to roughly US$24 plus shipping, customs, etc. Ordering from the UK when you live in the US get rather pricey quite fast.
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Post by: judgedoug
AW removes VAT for us US buyers. So it's like GBP13 plus shipping
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Post by: kenshin620
 Theduke07 wrote:I was only looking forward to their female marines but that wasn't even more than a concept
Yup
Those days sure were magical when they first showed this
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Post by: thesilverback
To bad if Defience is going down, had some good ideas and was really looking forward towards the Chinese Imperial Army.
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Post by: Shepherd23
I see this and realize that I should have had my battle eggs half a year ago. That is just not right. Someone needs to get the taser because of this.
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Post by: Sean_OBrien
Probably the absolute worst thing he could have done...assuming as I am that the whole thing goes super critical and explodes (as these things are wont to do).
Receiving a share can give a person access to the potential profits...but it also opens one up to the potential liabilities. This is even more common in a company which is organized like Defiance is likely organized. Since they likely do not have a corporate structure which shields share holders from liabilities outside of the basic protections (which would prevent say...a law suit against you as an individual because a kid stuck a miniature up his nose...but not protect you as an individual for committing wire fraud).
If Ed's share is large enough - he could end up being tossed on the hook for preorder refunds (or at least his portion of it based on his share ownership)...which might be significant based on a lot of the chatter which I have seen. To make it even better - he probably doesn't have a controlling share...so, the chances of being able to make a meaningful change to the actual process may well be out of the question.
Then again - it could just be the pessimism coming through, but I have long come to assume that if something can go wrong...it will. Occasionally, I am pleasantly surprised when the sky doesn't fall though.
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Post by: DustGod
Nope... these guys have had issues since day 1.
too cheap to pay for quality models or quality production... I'm still with the idea that this whole company is a clown show. garbage models.
Have fun pouring money into the clown show or trying to put a positive spin on this wreck.
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Post by: Caliginous
Their concept art was cool - real hardcore sci fi.
Their models were laughable garbage.
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Post by: Azazelx
The bookkeeping seems to be on a par with early- GW days, so Ed is probably safe:
Frothers Unite Forums wrote:
HiveTrygon
Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 2637
Location: Frothers
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:03 am Post subject:
anevilgiraffe wrote:
didn't you buy into Defiance or something though?
No. I was given part of the company share freely from Tony as a good will thing but it's like a profit share thing. That's an entirely different story however and atm can't get into all the details with it but no contracts were ever signed on that by me. I've thought about it but never did decide it was right.
http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36589&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=3320
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Post by: Kroothawk
Just in case someone doesn't remember:
This is the former owner of Wargames Factory, that couldn't deliver its stormtroopers for months and finally experienced a hostile takeover by the Chinese manufacturer. Followed by a nasty internet battle between Tony and his former collegues.
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Post by: RiTides
That egg / hardsuit would've been nice... we can dream!
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Post by: Earthbeard
Kroothawk wrote:Just in case someone doesn't remember:
This is the former owner of Wargames Factory, that couldn't deliver its stormtroopers for months and finally experienced a hostile takeover by the Chinese manufacturer. Followed by a nasty internet battle between Tony and his former collegues.
Indeed, either this guy is the unluckiest or the problem really does and did stem purely from him and his management skills or lack thereof.
I was really looking forward to those Bugs, but after the shots/pics from the few people that receieved them I decided to wait for them to iron out the problems with the casting, seems It'll never be resolved now?
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Post by: Shepherd23
We don't know for sure what is going on, but it really looks bad all around and I have to say, as much as I hoped they would be a viable company, it really doesn't look good right now.
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Post by: spaceelf
Shepherd23 wrote:We don't know for sure what is going on, but it really looks bad all around and I have to say, as much as I hoped they would be a viable company, it really doesn't look good right now.
Hopefully the removal of their forum is just damage control. Their marines look good. The bugs seemed to have some problems, but did not seem to be as bad as finecast stuff. The worms were nice.
I guess the most useful comments would be from people who placed orders. Is stuff currently shipping? Maybe I will try to place an order and see what happens.
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Post by: judgedoug
I like the Marines, actually; they fit in with my Copplestone future troopers as a good OpFor. I should probably try to find another box just in case they disappear forever.
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Post by: kenshin620
judgedoug wrote:I like the Marines, actually; they fit in with my Copplestone future troopers as a good OpFor. I should probably try to find another box just in case they disappear forever.
I was about to suggest warstore
And then I noticed, they dont carry them any more. Oh dear
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Post by: Kroothawk
How about this:
Let Defiance Games make the miniatures, the Ex Illis guys design the tabletop system, let the Miece designers do the names, Mantic do the promo pics, Rob Lane do the distribution, AoW Felix do the communication, and GW do the pricing and marketing.
Can't go wrong then
But we should warn Ed
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Post by: judgedoug
And New Wave games be the official stockist!
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Kroothawk wrote:How about this:
Let Defiance Games make the miniatures, the Ex Illis guys design the tabletop system, let the Miece designers do the names, Mantic do the promo pics, Rob Lane do the distribution, AoW Felix do the communication, and GW do the pricing and marketing.
Can't go wrong then
But we should warn Ed
Genius!
Can we get Kevin J. Anderson to write the novel?
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Post by: agustin
Kroothawk wrote:Just in case someone doesn't remember:
This is the former owner of Wargames Factory, that couldn't deliver its stormtroopers for months and finally experienced a hostile takeover by the Chinese manufacturer. Followed by a nasty internet battle between Tony and his former collegues.
As soon as he was booted, WGF started hitting all their deadlines and released a ton of new kits. Lots of people online sided with Tony against the evil, soulless chinese money men, but it looks like the real issue was Tony himself. We now have what can be called a pattern of missed deliveries when he's involved.
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Post by: CURNOW
 BobtheInquisitor wrote: Kroothawk wrote:How about this:
Let Defiance Games make the miniatures, the Ex Illis guys design the tabletop system, let the Miece designers do the names, Mantic do the promo pics, Rob Lane do the distribution, AoW Felix do the communication, and GW do the pricing and marketing.
Can't go wrong then
But we should warn Ed
Genius!
Can we get Kevin J. Anderson to write the novel?
Can we shoehorn red star one/three stage studios in to there aswell? Lol
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Post by: AlexHolker
agustin wrote:As soon as he was booted, WGF started hitting all their deadlines and released a ton of new kits. Lots of people online sided with Tony against the evil, soulless chinese money men, but it looks like the real issue was Tony himself. We now have what can be called a pattern of missed deliveries when he's involved.
Tony's explanation was consistent with the facts at the time (that their business partner was dragging their feet to starve Tony out of the company), but so was Ghost Studios', so it was just an our-word-against-theirs thing. But the proof is in the pudding, and Tony's still failing to deliver without their influence.
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Post by: Chronepsis
CURNOW wrote: Can we shoehorn red star one/three stage studios in to there aswell? Lol
Beat me to it
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Post by: Grot 6
Kroothawk wrote:Just in case someone doesn't remember:
This is the former owner of Wargames Factory, that couldn't deliver its stormtroopers for months and finally experienced a hostile takeover by the Chinese manufacturer. Followed by a nasty internet battle between Tony and his former collegues.
The Ninja's, Pirates, and Cowboys couldn't have dropped the ball any harder.
You forgot the dino stampede of Raptors that ran through the reception area and pooed all over the secretaries desk. 
I saw the marines in real life. They had potential, even if you didn't get the eggs, they are still available out there in some places.
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Post by: John D Law
You can still get the marines from Frp games. Sad thing is to look on the Defiance games page at all the preorder units listed that will never come about though. Sequoia scouts, German scout bikes ect. Too bad.
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Post by: kenshin620
I still have no idea if those were even intended. FPR tends to get the strangest of pre orders
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Post by: judgedoug
I think they just list what Alliance tells them is coming out, and Alliance gets their info from the manufacturer. so most likely Defiance put their wish-list into Alliance's system.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
If there is any kind of pattern emerging... I'm guessing someone will sweep up the whole portfolio again and we will have the miniatures available before the end of summer?
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Post by: noneoftheabove0
Please don't spam the forum. Thanks ~ Manchu
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Post by: Sean_OBrien
judgedoug wrote:I think they just list what Alliance tells them is coming out, and Alliance gets their info from the manufacturer. so most likely Defiance put their wish-list into Alliance's system.
I may be mistaken - but I am pretty sure that FRP is just the retail arm of Warpath Distributors...so, they get their own list of future releases.
One of the issues that sometimes comes about though is that some retailers (and distributors) are a bit too optimistic on things like release schedules. Very few companies actually are able to hit their targets...so many companies just try to avoid any sort of public release schedule. You can find them if you poke around in things like the Alliance public catalog though. Most distributors want a 60 day notice of upcoming releases that way they can make any needed changes in warehousing or purchase plans. I know that was a point of contention with Alliance several times as manufacturers would release information to them and then customers would come looking around for something which got pushed back or otherwise had its release changed or dropped. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Mathieu Raymond wrote:If there is any kind of pattern emerging... I'm guessing someone will sweep up the whole portfolio again and we will have the miniatures available before the end of summer?
Not sure if there is enough there there to make it worth someone wanting to touch it with a 10 foot poll.
Although the molds for the first set being hard plastic might be of interest to someone who wants to get into that sort of thing...they are stylistically a hard fit into most existing lines.
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Post by: Shepherd23
While I do not believe in abusing animals, if that horses name is Tony, I can understand the anger that those gentlemen are feeling. They probably are waiting for their preorders and have come to the realization that they most likely will not be seeing them. It still doesn't making beating poor horses ok though. PITA would not approve.
That said, I do genuinely feel for all the guys with orders in. It is looking more and more each day like they are not going to see them. Defiance hasn't said a peep since their forums went down. They are ignoring facebook comments as well. Each day it seems more and more like I am never gonna see the battle egg.
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Post by: Shepherd23
There may be light at the end of this tunnel. Gary, from Defiance, has been actively responding on their facebook page ( http://www.facebook.com/DefianceGames ) and has stated that preorders should be all shipped shortly.
I hope that this is true and that we will be seeing further sets produced in short order. We shall wait and see.
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Post by: CptJake
You'll have to excuse me if I don't hold my breathe while I wait...
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Post by: spaceelf
Shepherd23 wrote:There may be light at the end of this tunnel. Gary, from Defiance, has been actively responding on their facebook page ( http://www.facebook.com/DefianceGames ) and has stated that preorders should be all shipped shortly.
I hope that this is true and that we will be seeing further sets produced in short order. We shall wait and see.
Unfortunately, they did not respond to my e-mail. I hope the reason for this is that they are busy shipping preorders. We will have to wait and see.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
I think the company has to stop doing things in bursts, and assign either time periods for individuals to do things, or tasks to specific individuals if personnel permits.
It just sounds like me when I was beginning work as a desk zombie: You have to do this and this and this. I would proceed to do one thing until the end of the shifty and neglect the other tasks because I did not have the global view yet.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
Their facebook group just put up a bunch of pics, my feed was full of them. They're all just painted UAMC marines though. And oddly enough a link to his friend's kickstarter.
Not a single thing of news about the germans or the bugs though from what I can tell.
Probably not the smartest thing to do, but at least it proves somebody over there has a pulse.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
Yes, it would have been nice to see other products actually in someone's hands. pretty much everyone that wanted them has the UAMC by now. Something else, please.
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Post by: CptJake
You can only show what you actually have....
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Kroothawk wrote:How about this:
Let Defiance Games make the miniatures, the Ex Illis guys design the tabletop system, let the Miece designers do the names, Mantic do the promo pics, Rob Lane do the distribution, AoW Felix do the communication, and GW do the pricing and marketing.
Can't go wrong then
But we should warn Ed
judgedoug wrote:And New Wave games be the official stockist!
Ah... how many of us will get that joke?
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Post by: Amdur
The comments on one of the pictures say that there are multiple projects in the works. But just like typical dfg fashion, no specifics and no real details (just like their models). They can't just drop out of existence, fail to hold on to their promises and scheduling as well as failing to deliver products to customers, and come back and say that there are many things in production. And I still think the only reason why the forums were shut down was due to the fact that the only thing on there was fan fiction, and lots and lots of complaints.
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Post by: warboss
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:Kroothawk wrote:How about this:
Let Defiance Games make the miniatures, the Ex Illis guys design the tabletop system, let the Miece designers do the names, Mantic do the promo pics, Rob Lane do the distribution, AoW Felix do the communication, and GW do the pricing and marketing.
Can't go wrong then
But we should warn Ed
judgedoug wrote:And New Wave games be the official stockist!
Ah... how many of us will get that joke?
I got it but that's because I'm old and crotchety. hrumpf... I remember when they were the only source for Rackham models.
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
speaking of those... are there still some of those models somewhere outside of eBay?
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Rackham models? I know Brookhurst Hobbies has a bunch of them still. 2/3rds of a spinner full.
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Post by: Barzam
This news about Defiance is annoying. I am one of those people who was unfortunate enough to actually place an order back in October for the Germans. I hadn't heard any of the negative stuff yet and not many people were complaining at the time, plus the site's front page said they were shipping. So far, I haven't heard a thing and I'm wondering if I should try and go through Paypal and get a refund or if I should just continue to wait and see if they might ship. It's a real shame too because I liked the look they had for the Germans and their planned releases also looked really damn cool.
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Post by: Alpharius
BobtheInquisitor wrote:Rackham models? I know Brookhurst Hobbies has a bunch of them still. 2/3rds of a spinner full.
If you're up for helping out a fellow Old School gamer, please PM me about this!
Thanks!
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Post by: spaceelf
 Barzam wrote:This news about Defiance is annoying. I am one of those people who was unfortunate enough to actually place an order back in October for the Germans. I hadn't heard any of the negative stuff yet and not many people were complaining at the time, plus the site's front page said they were shipping. So far, I haven't heard a thing and I'm wondering if I should try and go through Paypal and get a refund or if I should just continue to wait and see if they might ship. It's a real shame too because I liked the look they had for the Germans and their planned releases also looked really damn cool.
I would get a refund from Paypal. If you want to be nice about it, then you could e-mail them first. They have not replied to my e-mail in several days.
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Post by: Shepherd23
According to a post from them on Facebook from last week, they stated that they would have most all of the pre orders shipped out within a week or two, I BELIEVE. Please do not quote me as it has been a week since I saw this post.
Since they are posting on Facebook and they are replying to posts there (I have had several replies to my questions and all have been quick), I would recommend that you post a question about your order there first. If you are not satisfied with the response then I would get on about a possible refund of your money.
Of course, you can just say shove off fat man and do what you feel is best for you. Who am I to tell you what to do.
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Post by: Midnightdeathblade
This is a stupid idea, but would be funny. Everyone go order a box of their germans and backlog the out of them. Im so angry this went under. I remember Germans being announced before summer weights started. Then agian in...september (football starts) ..then out for order in.. I have no clue?I was so excited for nothing. Oh boy they royally messed things up.
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Post by: Taarnak
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Kroothawk wrote:How about this:
Let Defiance Games make the miniatures, the Ex Illis guys design the tabletop system, let the Miece designers do the names, Mantic do the promo pics, Rob Lane do the distribution, AoW Felix do the communication, and GW do the pricing and marketing.
Can't go wrong then
But we should warn Ed
judgedoug wrote:And New Wave games be the official stockist!
Ah... how many of us will get that joke?
Oh I get it to the tune of $150.00 or so...
It amuses me to no end to see all the bitching on the Mierce Miniatures thread being done by folks who buy from Cool Mini or Not.
On the subject of Defiance: Are people really still wanting anything from these guys? I can't believe that mass refunds haven't been requested. And seeing people still looking for future releases? Absolutely amazing.
~Eric
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Post by: DustGod
I don't feel sorry...cause I warned all of you in the other thread and was attack with fan boy rage....
I hope some of my attackers lost money serves em' right. Best to. Listen to old 5 deadly venoms #2 the snake.... I tried to warn all of them.
I said its a twice failed clown show....greedy, cheap and poorly run...
Miyagi: Either you karate do "yes" or karate do "no." You karate do "guess so," [makes squish gesture] Miyagi: just like grape. Understand?
"Karate do good, Karate no do good, Karate guess so
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
Reason some people still want the models is because they had some really cool ideas and designs. Their universe they had in the works had a ton of potential, and the concept art looked cool. The problem isn't the ideas so much as these guys just cannot deliver.
I still want some of those germans they had in the works for example. I realize they'lll probably never come out now, but that doesn't mean I can't like the idea they had.
However, if I want to pay for something and get it over half a year later, I'll stick with kickstarter. It would take some serious changes in policy before i would place an order with them (like many kits in a row being released exactly on time and a heavy bribe )
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Post by: DustGod
Space germans, Valkyrie femdom, and ripping off starship troopers harder than GW ever did... even the hardsuit was done year or so before it was bought and they bought it as as a core piece...
No everything they made was garbage and application of good concepts from flying debris was poor at best but keep telling yourself whatever you want. Its not personal.... just step back n look at the whole picture.
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Post by: Stormfather
Although I wasn't blown away by the Marines, I liked the bugs, and I really liked what I saw of their Germans (I got a promo frame along with a box of bugs I ordered). It would be a shame if Defiance goes under, because I think that, if they get their issues ironed out, there's a great deal of creative potential there.
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Post by: Dawnbringer
 5deadly wrote:No everything they made was garbage and application of good concepts from flying debris was poor at best but keep telling yourself whatever you want. Its not personal.... just step back n look at the whole picture.
Exaggeration much? I'd love a few boxes of the germans if I could get them. Probably even shell out for a couple of the Marine boxes as the stuff put out by Defiance is the only thing close to being usable for a C&C inspired game. I really wish that instead of starting Defiance, the guys involved had just partnered with someone who could actually get product to market.
Edit: Grammar
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Post by: washout77
If they end up going under, hopefully another (hopefully more competent in business) company will pick up where they left off and finish the cool things out. I have a few boxes of the UAMC marines, and they are some pretty cool models when fitting with lasguns occasionally to add depth
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Post by: Shepherd23
5deadly wrote:Space germans, Valkyrie femdom, and ripping off starship troopers harder than GW ever did... even the hardsuit was done year or so before it was bought and they bought it as as a core piece...
Please explain this comment. I am confused. The starship trooper bugs were twice the size of a man in the movie and completely spider-like in the book, so the rip off aspect of this is going over my head. The shape of the bugs is similar, but i wouldn't call them a rip off by any stretch.
As to the hardsuit aspect of your comment, I am completely lost and need you to explain your train of thought a bit better. If you are just saying the the drawing that inspired the suit is over a year old...Well, so what?
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Post by: Dawnbringer
Shepherd23 wrote: 5deadly wrote:Space germans, Valkyrie femdom, and ripping off starship troopers harder than GW ever did... even the hardsuit was done year or so before it was bought and they bought it as as a core piece...
Please explain this comment. I am confused. The starship trooper bugs were twice the size of a man in the movie and completely spider-like in the book, so the rip off aspect of this is going over my head. The shape of the bugs is similar, but i wouldn't call them a rip off by any stretch.
As to the hardsuit aspect of your comment, I am completely lost and need you to explain your train of thought a bit better. If you are just saying the the drawing that inspired the suit is over a year old...Well, so what?
At this point I'd not bother worrying about what he is trying to argue and just label him under the species "internetus trollius".
Edit: Spelling...
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Post by: Shepherd23
 Dawnbringer wrote:Shepherd23 wrote: 5deadly wrote:Space germans, Valkyrie femdom, and ripping off starship troopers harder than GW ever did... even the hardsuit was done year or so before it was bought and they bought it as as a core piece...
Please explain this comment. I am confused. The starship trooper bugs were twice the size of a man in the movie and completely spider-like in the book, so the rip off aspect of this is going over my head. The shape of the bugs is similar, but i wouldn't call them a rip off by any stretch.
As to the hardsuit aspect of your comment, I am completely lost and need you to explain your train of thought a bit better. If you are just saying the the drawing that inspired the suit is over a year old...Well, so what?
At this point I'd not bother worring about what he is trying to argue and just label him under the species "internetus trollius".
I am tending to agree with you, but I try to give the benefit of the doubt. I try. Really hard at times. After watching Troll Hunter, I tend to feel bad for the poor sorry things.
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Post by: Azazelx
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
judgedoug wrote:And New Wave games be the official stockist!
Ah... how many of us will get that joke?
awww... c'mon guys. Don't be mean! Automatically Appended Next Post: Taarnak wrote:
It amuses me to no end to see all the bitching on the Mierce Miniatures thread being done by folks who buy from Cool Mini or Not.
I was on hobby-sabbatical during whatever happened. Is there a link to a write-up of what exactly happened?
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Post by: judgedoug
 scipio.au wrote: Kid_Kyoto wrote:
judgedoug wrote:And New Wave games be the official stockist!
Ah... how many of us will get that joke?
awww... c'mon guys. Don't be mean!
lol... CMON indeed!
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Post by: DustGod
ooh I got quoted ....
That troll movie was pretty cool.
"Are you a Christian? They can smell Christian blood " Im sorry guys defiance just brings out the troll in me....
And yes the bug look like star ship troopers no a single thing looked good enough to buy. Bent weapons and all.
How about this for the fan boy faithful .... pre order something today.... go ahead put your money where you mouth is. Thine faithful of Defiance
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