I've just been thinking, it's been a long while since GW introduced a new faction to 40k. Do you think it's about time they either introduced a brand new one, or possibly brought back an old one (Squats, Zoats)? I think it's time we saw something totally new, myself. Adeptus Mechanicus would certainly do nicely.

inb4 not another one of these threads. Seriously though, its not gonna happen.

Yes. All variant space marine armies should be discontinued and the few useful elements of their rules/fluff moved over to C:SM, making room for Codex: Squats.

are these threads that common? I hadn't seen any so I wasn't aware of that.

Until GW is able to keep up with all of their existing codices, no. If they were able to have their books updated within a few years of each new edition, then by all means, add in a new army. Really though, if someone is unable to find one faction out of the 15 or 16 (counting all the different flavours of marine) then one more army probably isn't going to help.

Yes.
Codex: Iron Hands
Codex: Deathwatch
Codex: Salamanders
Codex: Crimson Fists
Codex: White Scars
Codex: Imperial Fists
Codex: Ultramarines
Codex: Raven Guard


Hey GW, do you guys read this?

Don't forget Codex: Rainbow Marines

What they need to be doing is updating all the current Codexes, and then we'll talk.

They need to update Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, Tau, and Sisters.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Yes.
Codex: Iron Hands
Codex: Deathwatch
Codex: Salamanders
Codex: Crimson Fists
Codex: White Scars
Codex: Imperial Fists
Codex: Ultramarines
Codex: Raven Guard


Hey GW, do you guys read this?

Because I like MEQs way too much but the color scheme is a real dealbreaker. Let's face it, if you like MEQs you have 5 times as many options as the rest of us. I have zero sympathy. When it takes them as much as 7 years to write a Codex and they already are killing off Sisters and Templar, you -really- think they need a book with new fluff and new rules and new units for every single paint job they've ever come up with?

Yes. For every marine chapter a codex is required!

tbh I want a high point cost elite Xenos army, but they just don't have one so I ended up with GKs.

 Makutsu wrote:
tbh I want a high point cost elite Xenos army, but they just don't have one so I ended up with GKs.

That's kinda what Tau was supposed to be, but it's just such an old codex.


Honestly, until GW can keep consistent updates on it's current codexes I don't think we need MORE factions. Even then, it will have to wait for a new game edition so they can work the new army fluff into the game (which, likely won't be done. They have edited army fluff before, but it's been a while since a whole new army)

thenoobbomb wrote:
Codex: Ultramarines

This already exists, lol. It's called Codex: Space Marines.

The only way a new faction gets introduced is if Games Workshop identifies a new niche they can tap into. Every Army is designed to appeal to a different segment of the miniatures market. That's why 40K has been so successful. They target everybody instead of small segments. But, they also have the ability to do so, which many smaller startups don't. The introduction of the Tau, for example, was designed to hit the anime kids by duplicating the popular mecha animes into an army. Space Marines do it on a lower scale. Since Space Marines are the most popular product, by far, they also have Viking Marines, and Crusader Marines, etc.

Introducing a new faction is a lot more involved than just coming up with a new race and churning out models. The concept for the army has to be explored for its marketability. We've seen what happens to armies that struggle to find acceptance in the gaming community. They sit shelved for a long time like Dark Eldar, or Sisters, etc. It's pretty expensive for Games Workshop to introduce entirely new ranges.

I'd love to see a codex for the mechanicum, however I'm fully aware that would be yet another imperial codex and I can only imagine how well that would go down. It's a shame we'll never see some of the splinter marine codexes being reabsorbed into the standard marines codex. But I think the view on not even being able to keep the current factions up to date is the main reason it just shouldn't happen unless they seriously up their game.

My army ideas are great though.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Yes.
Codex: Iron Hands
Codex: Deathwatch
Codex: Salamanders
Codex: Crimson Fists
Codex: White Scars
Codex: Imperial Fists
Codex: Ultramarines
Codex: Raven Guard


Hey GW, do you guys read this?

lol, is it odd that I would pay full price for a well written Codex: Imperial Fists, Codex: Deathwatch (come on, this one has just been screaming to be made. Even if it's just a mini-dex in a WD or something, get on it GW!), and Codex: Raven Guard?

No.
I meant most of them.

Iron Hands are in desperate need of their own codex.

They can't even keep a reasonable pace with the current amount of armies available, why add another to the mix?

I'd really love to see an Ad Mech codex. They're a faction that has always been part of the background and could make an interesting and different enough army.

However, I understand that Imperium is already over-represented. I'd just roll all loyalist marines (with possible exception of Grey Knights) into one huge and flexible marine codex and that would free space for more varied codices.

Also, I've been eyeing the FW Eldar Corsairs list, and that could have potential as a regular army.


My codex lineup would be:

Space Marines (A huge book with a lot of customisation)
Imperial Guard (with an option to make a traitor guard army)
Adeptus Mechanicus
Inquisition (with GK and Deathwatch AND options for fully marineless force!)
Warriors of Faith (Sisters and other Ecclesiarchy stuff; angry mobs of commoners included!)

Tau Empire (with some HQ options for non-tau races, so you could make, say, fully Kroot or fully Vespid allied contingents for another army)

Craftworld Eldar
Dark Eldar
Eldar Corsairs

Orks

Necrons

Tyranids (with support for a genestealer cult type of a force)

Traitor Legions (a massive book with a lot of options)
Daemons of Chaos

Also, 'natural allies' should have built-in support for allying. Chaos marines should have icons for summoning daemons, an allied inquisitor should be able to be a warlord of any imperial army, etc.

GW has said that they will not be rolling any of the marine codices into C:SM, largely for logistics reasons. Codex Marines are already the 'fullest' codex in terms of both rules and fluff, and to try to combine even 1 of the other codices (like Black Templars) would likely cause it to bloat unless they invalidated a large number of existing models, which is again something they don't want to do (they like the idea of players having to buy Deathwing Terminators and Wolf Guard Terminators and Sword Brethren Terminators and etc).

As an additional note, my personal opinion is that any new variants of existing forces should be handled by Forge World rather than codices. They are already starting to do this, particularly with their IG variants, and they have been highly successful in doing so. Any new codices moving forward should be for factions that either don't have their own book (Ie, Mechanus) or are entirely new (I personally feel that there is an unfilled niche for a necromancer/vampire counts style army).

However, before GW begins releasing new codices, they need to get their current codices under control. Perhaps a more structured release schedule would be beneficial in this regard. A standard edition lasts what, 5 to 6 years, so if they devote 4 months of a year for new codex releases for 40k (and an equal number of months to fantasy) that would give us a new codex every 3 months and get all 16 done in 4 years, while allowing for 4 months of other releases (Hobbit/LotR, Specialist Games, Christmas with no releases etc)

No "new" factions, however I'd really like the Traitor Legions to be better represented. Even if it was just one enormous omnibus with tons of options.

Leave it Forgeworld.

The Adeptus Mechanicus need their own codex. After that nothing else.

I'd like to see a couple of things.

More chaos codices, different legions of chaos marines (3 or 4 codices), and maybe a codex for each chaos god.

A second tau codex. Like tau veterans. A codex to make tau into a real grim-dark faction.

A zombie faction. Zombie tau, zombie guard, zombie marines, zombie eldar. Probably not zombie orks... but a real zombie faction.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Adeptus Mechanicus need their own codex. After that nothing else.

End thread.

After we get new rules for the Tau, Black Templars, Eldar, Orks, and Sisters of Battle, and new models for the Black Templars, Eldar, and Sisters, and some better Inquisition stuff, and if that doesn't make anything obsolete, and if there hasn't been a new rules release by then, and if someone can think up one that fits with the fluff, then maybe.

Long story short: The game's got too much maintenance that needs to be done to be adding more content. It'd be cool, but it's not high priority.

@op: no new factions until each old one is updated for the current edition.

Which is the same answer I give every week when this thread comes up.

Basically it would be best with these options:

-Codex: Adeptus Astartes. Where all fo Marine Chapters would be included + unique tactics and HQ for Chapters who differ in some way ( Templars, Grey Knights, Raven Guard... ). I think this would be for the best.
-Codex: Imperial Guard. Where you can choose between several Guard Regiments, each with their unique tactics.
-Codex: Inquisition, where you can choose to field 3 army's at at once.
-Codex: Ecclesiarchy.
-Codex: Craftworld Eldar.
-Codex: Chaos Legions.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons.
-Codex: Necron Dynasties.
-Codex: Tau Empire. Where you can choose different Sept's, each wit htheir unique strategy.
-Codex: Tyranid Hive Fleets.
-Codex: Dark Eldar Cabals.
-Codex: Ork clans.
and this should be it.

The logic would be that instead of having several different codex's for several different Space Marine army's they should put them all in one codex and enter different rules for each army, so that everyone could choose their own army and tactics.

And if we need some new faction: Adeptus Mecahnicus. I mean, who would not want to field an entire army of robots and cyborgs?

Until GW demonstrates they have the resources and will to support their existing armies in a timely professional manner then the answer to that question should always be a resounding "NO".

More Imperial organisations no matter how trivial!

More niche Space Marines!

If you people really want to see that many factions represented, then be prepared to embrace a D20 system. That's the only way you're going to see any real performance difference between them.

This is odd though. It's like a family with too many mouths to feed as it is and someone keeps suggesting they adopt some more kids to get some diversity.

"But you don't understand, Negative Nancy. My favorite marine army has all gone completely nuts, chopped off their right hands, and grafted on robotic replacements."
Because that's going to have a lot of change on a genetic superman with enough armor plating to make a bunker feel envious.

No, absolutely not!

Look around your average GW shop, there's no room left on the shelves for an entirely new army!
This reason alone will be the deciding factor in GW ever creating a new force t oadd onto the existing codex line-up... If the stores can't stock it, they can't sell it, ergo, no new army.

Besides, things like Ad-Mech can be added into Codex: IG by simply adding more options. (ie: an expanded retinue option for techpriests that includes skittari options and then a special character techpriest who can servitors/skittari as Troops)

Likewise, Deathwatch can simply be added as a new Elites choice into Codex: Marines.
Corsairs can be a new unit type added to Codex: Eldar and again, perhaps a new special character option or purchasible upgrade for an Autarch to move the unit to the Troops section. (and even this isn't particularly needed, since you can ally Eldar/Dark Eldar and convert them into Corsiars...)

As for the idea of an 'all-in-one' super-sized Space Marine codex?
GW tried something like before. It was called Codex: Chaos Space Marines 3.5 and it was the most hienous, confusing mess for any new player to try and wrap their head around! Plus, I'd like to not be saddled with a 1000pg tome of dooooooom! to try and lug around, that would be so heavy it would likely crush the damn gaming table!

For all those marine-haters, keep this in mind; those 6+ or so Mehreen codices make GW the piles of money they then go and spend on all our lovely fringe Xenos armies!

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Basically it would be best with these options:

-Codex: Adeptus Astartes. Where all fo Marine Chapters would be included + unique tactics and HQ for Chapters who differ in some way ( Templars, Grey Knights, Raven Guard... ). I think this would be for the best.
-Codex: Imperial Guard. Where you can choose between several Guard Regiments, each with their unique tactics.
-Codex: Inquisition, where you can choose to field 3 army's at at once.
-Codex: Ecclesiarchy.
-Codex: Craftworld Eldar.
-Codex: Chaos Legions.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons.
-Codex: Necron Dynasties.
-Codex: Tau Empire. Where you can choose different Sept's, each wit htheir unique strategy.
-Codex: Tyranid Hive Fleets.
-Codex: Dark Eldar Cabals.
-Codex: Ork clans.
and this should be it.

I'm all for this, except Grey Knights should be included in Inquisition rather than Astartes.

Ecclesiarchy would be a really sweet codex.

Experiment 626 wrote:
keep this in mind; those 6+ or so Mehreen codices make GW the piles of money they then go and spend on all our lovely fringe Xenos armies!

Everyone remember to thank your LGS teens and their parents' deep wallets for our 'fringe xenos' armies.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Yes. For every marine chapter a codex is required!

I think it will be a lot like the Chaos Space Marines codex where with a certain HQ you can take certain benefits.

Codex: Hrud
Codex: bludravens/Boreale

I want space rats

Experiment 626 wrote:

Besides, things like Ad-Mech can be added into Codex: IG by simply adding more options. (ie: an expanded retinue option for techpriests that includes skittari options and then a special character techpriest who can servitors/skittari as Troops)

Likewise, Deathwatch can simply be added as a new Elites choice into Codex: Marines.
Corsairs can be a new unit type added to Codex: Eldar and again, perhaps a new special character option or purchasible upgrade for an Autarch to move the unit to the Troops section. (and even this isn't particularly needed, since you can ally Eldar/Dark Eldar and convert them into Corsiars...)

So why Blood Angels cannot be represented by putting an elite death Company unit in Codex Space marines?

All non-GK marine armies are basically the same with little differences here and there (and some of these differences are pointless and annoying, like different prices of devastators.) Ad-Mech is more different from IG than any marine armies are from each other.

Experiment 626 wrote:


Besides, things like Ad-Mech can be added into Codex: IG by simply adding more options. (ie: an expanded retinue option for techpriests that includes skittari options and then a special character techpriest who can servitors/skittari as Troops)

No they couldn't. If you are familar with Ad Mech fluff you know they have their own armies that are radically different than any other imperial force. The Titan Legions are supported by wave after wave of Skittarii, if you crossed IG with Servitors and Space Marines you would have Skittarii. Very different from Space Marines or IG.

Two Words: Adeptus Custodes

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Two Words: Adeptus Custodes

Replaced by three

Never leave Earth.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Two Words: Adeptus Custodes

Replaced by three

Never leave Earth.

Replaced by two:

Matt Ward

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Two Words: Adeptus Custodes

Replaced by three

Never leave Earth.

Replaced by two:

Matt Ward

Ward jokes are old, and never were funny.

 Grey Templar wrote:
No they couldn't. If you are familar with Ad Mech fluff you know they have their own armies that are radically different than any other imperial force. The Titan Legions are supported by wave after wave of Skittarii, if you crossed IG with Servitors and Space Marines you would have Skittarii. Very different from Space Marines or IG.

So what exactly does an admech list add to the game rules/gameplay-wise that isn't already covered by a game that already has far too many nearly-identical armies? What hole is waiting to be filled, or is this entirely motivated by fluff?

And if it's a fluff thing, wait until the FW Heresy books include an admech list. Then you can have your niche market list/models without wasting an entire army slot on it.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Two Words: Adeptus Custodes

Replaced by three

Never leave Earth.

Replaced by two:

Matt Ward

Ward jokes are old, and never were funny.

I disagree.

Yup

Codex: Update Black Templars already

As long as it's not another fething marine faction.

Steelmage99 wrote:
Until GW demonstrates they have the resources and will to support their existing armies in a timely professional manner then the answer to that question should always be a resounding "NO".

^^^^ This this this this this ^^^^^

The ironic thing about the people complaining about not getting a dex for their favorite chapter is that you have people complaining about not getting their Black Templar updated. You can either have a lot of well maintained core Codices or you can a bunch of poorly maintained offshoot chapters that never get any updates.

Say what you want about Codex: Space Marines, but at least Crimson Fists, Salamanders, or Imperial Fists players have current builds.

Plus, Games Workshop needs to hire (oh my god, hiring people, that costs money) Codex writers, FAQ writers, playtesters, and sculptors so that they can keep this hobby dynamic and supported. 7 years for a Codex release? 7 years??? And then you look at the units they come up with and they're just moving stats around a little bit. It's a little ridiculous.

I'm going to echo the "How about they update the books they have now (including all the Fantasy books) before they think about introducing new factions to their games?" sentiment.

7 years for a Codex release? 7 years??? And then you look at the units they come up with and they're just moving stats

Heh, seven. Necrons waited 9 years, and I think Bretonnians are somewhere in the same neighborhood.... and AFAIK there's no sign of new Brets any time soon.

 RatBot wrote:


Heh, seven. Necrons waited 9 years, and I think Bretonnians are somewhere in the same neighborhood.... and AFAIK there's no sign of new Brets any time soon.

They were busy writing the rules for The Hobbit.

 RatBot wrote:
I'm going to echo the "How about they update the books they have now (including all the Fantasy books) before they think about introducing new factions to their games?" sentiment.

7 years for a Codex release? 7 years??? And then you look at the units they come up with and they're just moving stats

Heh, seven. Necrons waited 9 years, and I think Bretonnians are somewhere in the same neighborhood.... and AFAIK there's no sign of new Brets any time soon.

Miss the Dark Eldar eh? They went 15 years IIRC.

Actually, 12, and yes, I did forget. Or rather, I was looking at the date their revised 3rd edition Codex was released, which really doesn't count. So they still win the dubious "honor" of "Longest wait to get a new Codex". Bretonnians are getting close, though.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:


Besides, things like Ad-Mech can be added into Codex: IG by simply adding more options. (ie: an expanded retinue option for techpriests that includes skittari options and then a special character techpriest who can servitors/skittari as Troops)

No they couldn't. If you are familar with Ad Mech fluff you know they have their own armies that are radically different than any other imperial force. The Titan Legions are supported by wave after wave of Skittarii, if you crossed IG with Servitors and Space Marines you would have Skittarii. Very different from Space Marines or IG.

And yes they could, simply by adding an actual Skittari unit to the IG codex that becomes a 0-1 option per Engineseer included, just like how Inquisitorial Henchmen Warbands work. Have options for a T4/4+ Skittari, your bog-standard Servitors, Preatorian Servitors (mmmmm...multi-wound T3 Imperial-style Oblits!), etc...
Then the IG codex could include a special character Techpriest ala Coteaz who makes 'Ad Mech Warbands' a Troops option and removes the 0-1.

You don't need the super special flashy tanks - the current codex has enough tanks you can convert to 'count as' whatever crazy Ad-mech zanyness you want.

Done. Adeptus Mechanicus decently represented in the current 40k.
Then Forgeworld can go above and beyond like they always do and bring out the hardcore, strait from the backstory versions like they've done with the Badab War & Heresy books for Marines...

Actually, if they gave Sisters of Battle a proper, new Codex and plastic kits (including new models) that would practically be introducing a new faction to the game, since I had only seen one, maybe two SoB armies in my 12 years of playing 40K (haven't seen any in the two since I stopped playing 40K, but I imagine there haven't been a lot of new SoB armies popping up).

 RatBot wrote:
Heh, seven. Necrons waited 9 years, and I think Bretonnians are somewhere in the same neighborhood.... and AFAIK there's no sign of new Brets any time soon.

Sisters are at nine years as well.

No, the PDF/WD "codex" does not count, seeing as no new models were added and it wasn't a real book anyway.

I'd rather the Codex: Space Marine codex be expanded to encompass more chapters.

We already have White Scars covered w/o special characters. Need to see Jump Pack Captains giving Assault Marines troops to cover Raven Guard (just Vanilla Marine assault marines, none of the cool Blood Angel stuff).

Ditto for first company captain armies. Have terminators become troops w/ a TDA Captain. Not mix and match or the cool special rules like Dark Angels, just, again, Vanilla Marine terminators (not the Assault variety) troops.

Maybe leave the Sternguard as Pedro's thing. Or tie it to Artificer armour.

Maybe pay for an extra upgrade on the Captain, "Captain of the First Company". Maybe snipe Belial's no-scatter special rule for him/his group.

Just something to make Vanilla Marines encompass more than Ultramarines, Iron Hands (in a minimal manner w/ the Master of the Forge), or White Scars.

Pretty much, allow for Vanilla Marines to have a wide (but non-specialized) net for types of armies they can represent. Vanilla Marine bike armies can already do the biker thing, so why not other things?

I'd have:
-Codex: Space Marines
-Codex: Imperial Guard
-Codex: Grey Knights (they're special enough to warrant their own codex imo)
-Codex: Sisters of Battle
-Codex: Chaos Legions
-Codex: Daemons
-Codex: Orks
-Codex: Tau Empire
-Codex: Necrons
-Codex: Eldar
-Codex: Dark Eldar
-Codex: Tyranids

And Inquisitors/their retinues can be attached to any Imperial force.

Shh, careful where you say that, Harriticus, you'll get called a marine-hater

Experiment 626 wrote:


And yes they could, simply by adding an actual Skittari unit to the IG codex that becomes a 0-1 option per Engineseer included, just like how Inquisitorial Henchmen Warbands work. Have options for a T4/4+ Skittari, your bog-standard Servitors, Preatorian Servitors (mmmmm...multi-wound T3 Imperial-style Oblits!), etc...
Then the IG codex could include a special character Techpriest ala Coteaz who makes 'Ad Mech Warbands' a Troops option and removes the 0-1.

You don't need the super special flashy tanks - the current codex has enough tanks you can convert to 'count as' whatever crazy Ad-mech zanyness you want.

They need knight titans and other walkers!

I forgot to add

codex cursed foundings. I miss me rending which adds extra attacks

 Crimson wrote:


They need knight titans and other walkers!

Which is where allies and/or 'counts as' come into play, while Forgeworld can do the OTT amazing stuff they always put out. (and most of the comunity seems too damn scard to even try and give things a go with...)

It makes me think though. A space marine codex with the rules for all space marine loyalists, or hell, just make it a tomb that has all they different codexes in one. That would actually be a codex worth $50-$75.

Experiment 626 wrote:


Which is where allies and/or 'counts as' come into play, while Forgeworld can do the OTT amazing stuff they always put out. (and most of the comunity seems too damn scard to even try and give things a go with...)

And why not take this approach towards space marines? You can easily play any chapter with vanilla dex. I repeat: Adeptus Mechanicus is more different from any existing army than any two marine armies are from each other.

It would help the vanilla codex if they didn't use a full page for each entry. It's only bloated because they needed wardian fluff for each unit.

 Crimson wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:


Which is where allies and/or 'counts as' come into play, while Forgeworld can do the OTT amazing stuff they always put out. (and most of the comunity seems too damn scard to even try and give things a go with...)

And why not take this approach towards space marines? You can easily play any chapter with vanilla dex. I repeat: Adeptus Mechanicus is more different from any existing army than any two marine armies are from each other.

Because the differences between Marines would turn a single monolith tome into a giant mess.

For example, think of how awful just the Tactical Squad entry would be if it had to include Vanilla+SW+BA+DA+Templar. You'd at the very least require added bullet points for things like;
- If taken as part of a SW army, unit must instead replace heavy weapon w/additional special weapon.
One model may also take a power weapon or power fist at +X pts
One model may take Mark of the Wulfen at +X pts
One model may take a Wolf Standard for +X pts
Entire unit gain X/Y/Z special rules

- If taken as part of a Black Templar army, entire unit may replace Bolters with Chainswords.
May add +X Neophytes to the unit for +Y pts/model
One model may take a power weapon or power fist at +X pts in place of a heavy weapon.
Entire unit gains X/Y/Z special rules

- If taken as part of a Blood Angels army, entire unit gains X/Y/Z special rules.

- If taken as part of a Dark Angels army, entire unit gains X/Y/Z special rules.



And you'd have to do that for every single entry across the entire codex! It would be one gaint@$$ confusing heap of crap AND hugely open the door to massive abuses both innocent and purposeful.
Note that GW tried this type of approch with the 3.5 CSM codex, and it was easily one of the most confusing books ever, especially for newer players to get to grips with.

Like it or not, the differences between the various 'Big 5' Marine Chapters are handled better by having their own seperate codices.

1) Unified marine codex would not have to include every option that currently exist in sub-codices.

2) Most of the modification to the units would not be in the unit entry but on the Chapter's trait page.

 Crimson wrote:
1) Unified marine codex would not have to include every option that currently exist in sub-codices.

So, in other words, "drop options for army X so that my army Y can get more stuff!"?

Remember the outcry when Pariahs stopped existing and then multiply that by however many things such an approach would remove.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
1) Unified marine codex would not have to include every option that currently exist in sub-codices.

So, in other words, "drop options for army X so that my army Y can get more stuff!"?

Remember the outcry when Pariahs stopped existing and then multiply that by however many things such an approach would remove.

Eh, Chaos Codex lost all their options and got gutted like a kipper. Chaos would at least enjoy the Irony of seeing another factions (or factions I suppose) getting cut down to size. Especially one with the most love by GW.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
1) Unified marine codex would not have to include every option that currently exist in sub-codices.

So, in other words, "drop options for army X so that my army Y can get more stuff!"?

Remember the outcry when Pariahs stopped existing and then multiply that by however many things such an approach would remove.

Eh, Chaos Codex lost all their options and got gutted like a kipper. Chaos would at least enjoy the Irony of seeing another factions (or factions I suppose) getting cut down to size. Especially one with the most love by GW.

Exactly; Chaos lost loads of options. How well was that recieved by the player base?

This:

-Codex: Space Marines (or Adeptus Astartes): All marines in one. Each of the main (BA, Ultra, BT, White Scars, DA, Salamanders, SW, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists and Iron Hands) gets their own devoted special rules page and hero.
-Codex: Imperial Guard: Same as Marines, normal guard with some more tanks and maybe some more specialist units, but: DKoK, Cadia, Catachan, Mordian Guard, Tallarn, Tanith First, Elysians and Valhallans each get their own page with special rules and their own hero.
-Codex: Inquisition: Grey Knights, Sisters, Deathwatch and Inquisitors all in one.

-Codex Ork Klans: Orks, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special clan rules.

-Codex Deamons of Caos: the horrors of the Warp.
-Codex Legions of Chaos: Traitor marines and traitor guard, including things like the Blood Pact; again with special rules per each god, and special characters that give overall traits.

-Codex: Craftworld Eldar: Eldar, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special craftworld rules.
-Codex: Dark Eldar: DE. with heroes, that provide special rules, and special cabal rules.

-Codex: Necrons: Necrons, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special tomb world rules.

-Codex: Tau: Tau Empire, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special sept rules. Maybe some purely alien auxiliary armies like Kroot (not Vespid though, they aren't widespread enough.)

-Codex: Tyranids: Tyranids, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special hive fleet rules, like Behemoth gains Known Enemy: Space Marines, or even more specific, Ultramarines.

Now, I know that this will cause a lot of problems. This would basically require a reboot of almost the whole game, but I think it would be worth it, as long as Games Workshop shows us that they are at least capable of rational thinking. And it also lowers the codex volume by 4.
Another problem would be the amount of specializations an army could have and the confusion this might cause. You could have a, not only Space Marines or IG or Tau army, but a Space Marines White Scars very fast army, or Imperial Guard Artillery Regiment with close defense units, or a Tau version of the Halo: ODST.
I think this would be awesome, not only because it would make games (and lists a lot more challenging) but it would make specialist armies a whole lot cheaper (Games Workshop does hate this though) to build. I have a friend who likes BA and SW, and he almost literally had to buy two armies that were almost completely identical except for Commander Dante/Njal Stormcaller and the Sanguinary Guard/Wolf Guard.
This system of mini-dexes within a codex also is technically a new codex, for the OP.


Also, as long as we are discussing codexes, take away this hardcover gaking feth. PLEASE, I want a book I can keep open on a table without it falling into pieces, not a brick!
Arcani

-Codex: Inquisition: Grey Knights, Sisters, Deathwatch and Inquisitors all in one.

Sisters Are Not Inquisition!

They are apart of the CHURCH, Codex: Adeptus Ministorum, the Ecclesiarchy. They are only called upon by certain inquisitors because they are devout for rooting out heretics, but it is not the same as being apart of them. They had their own codex with more church related units and items, before codex: Witch hunters.

Codex: Kroot!!!!

 Arcani wrote:
This:

-Codex: Space Marines (or Adeptus Astartes): All marines in one. Each of the main (BA, Ultra, BT, White Scars, DA, Salamanders, SW, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists and Iron Hands) gets their own devoted special rules page and hero.
-Codex: Imperial Guard: Same as Marines, normal guard with some more tanks and maybe some more specialist units, but: DKoK, Cadia, Catachan, Mordian Guard, Tallarn, Tanith First, Elysians and Valhallans each get their own page with special rules and their own hero.
-Codex: Inquisition: Grey Knights, Sisters, Deathwatch and Inquisitors all in one.

-Codex Ork Klans: Orks, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special clan rules.

-Codex Deamons of Caos: the horrors of the Warp.
-Codex Legions of Chaos: Traitor marines and traitor guard, including things like the Blood Pact; again with special rules per each god, and special characters that give overall traits.

-Codex: Craftworld Eldar: Eldar, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special craftworld rules.
-Codex: Dark Eldar: DE. with heroes, that provide special rules, and special cabal rules.

-Codex: Necrons: Necrons, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special tomb world rules.

-Codex: Tau: Tau Empire, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special sept rules. Maybe some purely alien auxiliary armies like Kroot (not Vespid though, they aren't widespread enough.)

-Codex: Tyranids: Tyranids, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special hive fleet rules, like Behemoth gains Known Enemy: Space Marines, or even more specific, Ultramarines.

Now, I know that this will cause a lot of problems. This would basically require a reboot of almost the whole game, but I think it would be worth it, as long as Games Workshop shows us that they are at least capable of rational thinking. And it also lowers the codex volume by 4.
Another problem would be the amount of specializations an army could have and the confusion this might cause. You could have a, not only Space Marines or IG or Tau army, but a Space Marines White Scars very fast army, or Imperial Guard Artillery Regiment with close defense units, or a Tau version of the Halo: ODST.
I think this would be awesome, not only because it would make games (and lists a lot more challenging) but it would make specialist armies a whole lot cheaper (Games Workshop does hate this though) to build. I have a friend who likes BA and SW, and he almost literally had to buy two armies that were almost completely identical except for Commander Dante/Njal Stormcaller and the Sanguinary Guard/Wolf Guard.
This system of mini-dexes within a codex also is technically a new codex, for the OP.

Same thing like I said, and this would be the best way becaue you can try almost every mix.
Like they guys said: "Space Marines White Scars very fast army, or Imperial Guard Artillery Regiment with close defense units, or a Tau version of the Halo: ODST." So everybody woud lbe able to build the army they like.

The only correction I would add here: Sisters of Battle shoud lbe in Codex: Adeptus Ministorum or Codex: Ecclesiarchy. The yare army of the Imperial Chruch, not Inquisition.

 Arcani wrote:


-Codex: Space Marines (or Adeptus Astartes): All marines in one. Each of the main (BA, Ultra, BT, White Scars, DA, Salamanders, SW, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists and Iron Hands) gets their own devoted special rules page and hero.

-Codex: Imperial Guard: Same as Marines, normal guard with some more tanks and maybe some more specialist units, but: DKoK, Cadia, Catachan, Mordian Guard, Tallarn, Tanith First, Elysians and Valhallans each get their own page with special rules and their own hero.

-Codex: Inquisition: Grey Knights, Assassins, Deathwatch and Inquisitors all in one.

-Codex: Ecclesiarchy: SoB, Arbities (allies) and Fraternus Milita.

- Codex: Mechanicus: Skitarri.

-Codex Ork Klans: Orks, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special clan rules.

-Codex Chaos: Traitor marines and traitor guard, including things like the Blood Pact; again with special rules per each god, and special characters that give overall traits. Also includes Demons which can be used as allies or a standalone army.

-Codex: Craftworld Eldar: Eldar, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special craftworld rules.

-Codex: Dark Eldar: DE. with heroes, that provide special rules, and special cabal rules.

-Codex: Necrons: Necrons, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special tomb world rules.

-Codex: Tau: Tau Empire, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special sept rules. Maybe some purely alien auxiliary armies like Kroot (not Vespid though, they aren't widespread enough.)

-Codex: Tyranids: Tyranids, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special hive fleet rules, like Behemoth gains Known Enemy: Space Marines, or even more specific, Ultramarines.

Fix'd with this addition:

All this would be done in 40k 7th edition as a "total recall" event where every army gets a new codex the day the BRB is released. Every update, aka; new codex would be given out at the same time so that every army will never be outdated, and new army's may be introduced seamlessly whenever GW feels it is fitting.

 DemetriDominov wrote:

Fix'd with this addition:

All this would be done in 40k 7th edition as a "total recall" event where every army gets a new codex the day the BRB is released. Every update, aka; new codex would be given out at the same time so that every army will never be outdated, and new army's may be introduced seamlessly whenever GW feels it is fitting.

Yeah, my idea might happen, this ^ never will though. Too much work for GW and it'd be a very confusing first months, new ruleset for everything and you don't know anything about anything? Very, very cool idea, but very idealistic.

They need to update the hopelessly out of date armies first before they have a new faction

 Crimson wrote:
I'd really love to see an Ad Mech codex. They're a faction that has always been part of the background and could make an interesting and different enough army.

However, I understand that Imperium is already over-represented. I'd just roll all loyalist marines (with possible exception of Grey Knights) into one huge and flexible marine codex and that would free space for more varied codices.

Also, I've been eyeing the FW Eldar Corsairs list, and that could have potential as a regular army.


My codex lineup would be:

Space Marines (A huge book with a lot of customisation)
Imperial Guard (with an option to make a traitor guard army)
Inquisition (with GK and Deathwatch AND options for fully marineless force!)
Warriors of Faith (Sisters and other Ecclesiarchy stuff; angry mobs of commoners included!)

Tau Empire (with some HQ options for non-tau races, so you could make, say, fully Kroot or fully Vespid allied contingents for another army)

Craftworld Eldar
Dark Eldar


Orks

Necrons

Tyranids (with support for a genestealer cult type of a force)

Traitor Legions (a massive book with a lot of options)
Daemons of Chaos

Also, 'natural allies' should have built-in support for allying. Chaos marines should have icons for summoning daemons, an allied inquisitor should be able to be a warlord of any imperial army, etc.

This has to happen first before they attempt to add another faction. (for those who didn't realised, I removed Admech and eldar corsairs from the list, as they aren't an update of a current codex )

once this happens, admech, eldar corsairs and maybe another race (unsure what, though, but it would have to be good and xenos...

That or combine corsair, craftworld, dark eldar and exodites into one codex, so 2 new factions + 2 current ones are combined, though that would probably never happen nor work (all the SM codices rolled into one would, though, especially with traits brought back (don't know what their actual name was, didn't play 40k back then)

New faction? No, absolutely not, they don't even keep the current ones up to date.

And what's with this AdMech army stuff? They don't really fight as a separate entity from what I know.

 DemetriDominov wrote:

All this would be done in 40k 7th edition as a "total recall" event where every army gets a new codex the day the BRB is released. Every update, aka; new codex would be given out at the same time so that every army will never be outdated, and new army's may be introduced seamlessly whenever GW feels it is fitting.

This is precisely how it should be done from a gamer's perspective.

And it wouldn't be any work overall for GW. The BRB and codices could be written co-operatively, which is more likely to result in better balance among the codices. No "codex creep" and whatnot, and no incompatible rules and whatever. They'd also have all the time between editions to sculpt new figures and such to do a mass release.

But no, they want to stagger their sales and let players suffer for it. And in the end they're likely not even making more money out of it. They'd still be selling figs and books throughout the time period between the release. Yes, obviously there would be a big spike, but in the long term there'd be little difference. But noooo, they have to keep their money-grubbing shareholders happy in each quarter. Never mind keeping players happy and thus spending more and more.

tvih wrote:

But no, they want to stagger their sales and let players suffer for it. And in the end they're likely not even making more money out of it. They'd still be selling figs and books throughout the time period between the release. Yes, obviously there would be a big spike, but in the long term there'd be little difference. But noooo, they have to keep their money-grubbing shareholders happy in each quarter. Never mind keeping players happy and thus spending more and more.

It all comes back down to this: if they didn't have shareholders, which would be a very bad business model and probably would cause their prices to go even higher, we could be happy gamers with things we actually like.


The other thing we could do could be to all pool our money and buy GW so that we can get what we want.

 Arcani wrote:

tvih wrote:

But no, they want to stagger their sales and let players suffer for it. And in the end they're likely not even making more money out of it. They'd still be selling figs and books throughout the time period between the release. Yes, obviously there would be a big spike, but in the long term there'd be little difference. But noooo, they have to keep their money-grubbing shareholders happy in each quarter. Never mind keeping players happy and thus spending more and more.

It all comes back down to this: if they didn't have shareholders, which would be a very bad business model and probably would cause their prices to go even higher, we could be happy gamers with things we actually like.


The other thing we could do could be to all pool our money and buy GW so that we can get what we want.

I agree that all the books absolutely need to be updated, but I kind of like having things staggered. It makes things more interesting, getting new stuff every month, even if it isn't for my army. In an ideal world, they'd do what Privateer Press does, and release all of the books and models in them at once but then keep making new models with WD rules or rules on their website. That way we have books that all work together, but also don't have to sit through 5-6 years with no new stuff to look forward to.

Codex Administratum. Force your opponent to work trough 2d6 terrabyte of data within 1d6 hours to find the single, random error, or he/she has lost the game.

I think the only codex that can reasonably be added at this point is a Codex: Mercenaries, to take advantage of the ally system.

This would essentially be a conpendum of mini codexes, allowing for many disparate allied units to be taken to bolster existing forces. Each section will have 1-2 choices from each FOC slot, possibly with special alli rules to allow taking them without HQ or troops etc.

This would allow GW to fill in all the smaller factions that are not quite worth making an entire codex of.

For example it could include an Allies of the Imperium section, which will have DeathWatch squads, Ad Machinarium centurions etc, and the Adeptus Arbiters, with Techpriests, Arbites Judges etc as HQs.

Simularly, a Mercenaries section open to everyone might include Squats, Hivers, Gangers, mutants, roque psykers etc, perhaps with Rogue Traders and local Warlords as HQs.

Finally, a Xenos Forces section would include a coalition various alien races that can be added and open to other Xenos codexes, like space lizardmen, enslavers, slaan, etc.

This should not be too difficult to implement, and there is a lot of precidence in other game systems of such factions. They can even include special FoC rules to make all Merc armies legal.

Codex: Mechanicus
Maybe Codex: Blood Ravens (Think Thousand Son's but Loyal)

That is all.

Right now I'm just waiting for the new Ork Codex. I wouldn't mind them bring back the idea of Clan specific boys. Example, Snakebite Ork Boys got an extra attack in close combat, but no ranged weapons. if IRC.

The need of an Ork Codex is AP2, viable close combat Deffdreads(maybe make them Fast, Walkers), and update everything except Big Mek, Nobs, Warboss, Dakkajets, and Battlewagons.

DrDuckman wrote:
I think the only codex that can reasonably be added at this point is a Codex: Mercenaries, to take advantage of the ally system.

This would essentially be a conpendum of mini codexes, allowing for many disparate allied units to be taken to bolster existing forces. Each section will have 1-2 choices from each FOC slot, possibly with special alli rules to allow taking them without HQ or troops etc.

This would allow GW to fill in all the smaller factions that are not quite worth making an entire codex of.

For example it could include an Allies of the Imperium section, which will have DeathWatch squads, Ad Machinarium centurions etc, and the Adeptus Arbiters, with Techpriests, Arbites Judges etc as HQs.

Simularly, a Mercenaries section open to everyone might include Squats, Hivers, Gangers, mutants, roque psykers etc, perhaps with Rogue Traders and local Warlords as HQs.

Finally, a Xenos Forces section would include a coalition various alien races that can be added and open to other Xenos codexes, like space lizardmen, enslavers, slaan, etc.

This should not be too difficult to implement, and there is a lot of precidence in other game systems of such factions. They can even include special FoC rules to make all Merc armies legal.

BINGO
You win sire.

Definitely do NOT put all SM into one codex. You're going to have a 500 page book. Imagine lugging that around with you! Instead, I propose having one master SM codex and having several far far smaller codexes for each individual weird SM army. So if you want to play Space Wolves, you get the Space Marine codex and then the Space Wolves mini-codex that draws from the main codex. It would appear that GW is taking their focus away from SM.

I'd like to see the Ulmeathic (sp?) Confederation.

DrDuckman wrote:
I think the only codex that can reasonably be added at this point is a Codex: Mercenaries, to take advantage of the ally system.

This would essentially be a conpendum of mini codexes, allowing for many disparate allied units to be taken to bolster existing forces. Each section will have 1-2 choices from each FOC slot, possibly with special alli rules to allow taking them without HQ or troops etc.

This would allow GW to fill in all the smaller factions that are not quite worth making an entire codex of.

For example it could include an Allies of the Imperium section, which will have DeathWatch squads, Ad Machinarium centurions etc, and the Adeptus Arbiters, with Techpriests, Arbites Judges etc as HQs.

Simularly, a Mercenaries section open to everyone might include Squats, Hivers, Gangers, mutants, roque psykers etc, perhaps with Rogue Traders and local Warlords as HQs.

Finally, a Xenos Forces section would include a coalition various alien races that can be added and open to other Xenos codexes, like space lizardmen, enslavers, slaan, etc.

This should not be too difficult to implement, and there is a lot of precidence in other game systems of such factions. They can even include special FoC rules to make all Merc armies legal.

This is indeed a great idea. However, it might be more feasible to do this piecemeal as White Dwarf articles. Whenever they have rules and models for a new allied contingent they can publish it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Definitely do NOT put all SM into one codex. You're going to have a 500 page book. Imagine lugging that around with you! Instead, I propose having one master SM codex and having several far far smaller codexes for each individual weird SM army. So if you want to play Space Wolves, you get the Space Marine codex and then the Space Wolves mini-codex that draws from the main codex. It would appear that GW is taking their focus away from SM.

It used to be like that at some point. Third edition, I think. And yes, it would be preferable to what we have now.

 Crimson wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Definitely do NOT put all SM into one codex. You're going to have a 500 page book. Imagine lugging that around with you! Instead, I propose having one master SM codex and having several far far smaller codexes for each individual weird SM army. So if you want to play Space Wolves, you get the Space Marine codex and then the Space Wolves mini-codex that draws from the main codex. It would appear that GW is taking their focus away from SM.

It used to be like that at some point. Third edition, I think. And yes, it would be preferable to what we have now.

No, it was horrid back then and definately NOT! preferable to what we have now...

Those tiny mini-codices has crap for background, a joke of a hobby section and it was a PITA to build army lists when you had to reference multiple books.

I'm sorry you hate the multiple Marine codices so much, but consider that the profits GW pulls in off of those full-sized books is what allowed them to re-invent and re-release long neglected armies with little to no player base like DE or Necrons.

Besides, as far as I'm concerned, my codex is just as important and valuable as yours. Why should mine be squated and not yours?!

I'm sorry you hate the multiple Marine codices so much, but consider that the profits GW pulls in off of those full-sized books is what allowed them to re-invent and re-release long neglected armies with little to no player base like DE or Necrons.

They probably wouldn't have such a poor player base if they didn't keep them without updates for so long! Also known as the "Cycle of Fail". Because GW devotes all its resources to SM, others get left behind, those that get left behind, get less popular because they start to suck, and then nobody uses them, thus they end up with no player base!

No, it was horrid back then and definately NOT! preferable to what we have now...

Those tiny mini-codices has crap for background, a joke of a hobby section and it was a PITA to build army lists when you had to reference multiple books.

Did it quite well when I had my DA army, wouldn't mind going back to it if we could get everyone just like a full fledged SM codex.

Besides, as far as I'm concerned, my codex is just as important and valuable as yours. Why should mine be squated and not yours?!

Because it's just a special snowflake army variant that could easily go in the main book. I had quite of bit of my stuff squatted, why not yours too?

Wow, all this talk about codexes. When I started the thread I hadn't even thought about them. Probably because I never owned any back in the day when I used to play. I suppose that is a big part of the game though, huh? And before anyone asks how we used to play the gave without codexes, we just used modified versions of Space Hulk's rules.


I actually like the idea of a Codex: Mercenaries though. That actually would be a good way to bring back a lot of the older factions and units that the game used to have, like the Arbites and the Squats as well as allow them to implement some new ally units like the Tarellian Dog Soldiers.

Absolutely not. GW has enough armies in Warhammer 40k, they have just about every meaningful sci-fi trope covered, there's no need to add entirely new armies. Maybe a Mercenaries book to take advantage of the Allies rules, maybe, but no new armies. Honestly, they could afford to shed one of the Marine variants at this point.

Honestly, i think they should rewrite C:GK, and introduce,
Codex: Ordo Malleus
Codex: Ordo Xenos
Codex: Ordo Hereticus
It'll be 1st, super cool to see what a hereticus army would look like, 2nd, love for Deathwatch, and 3rd C:GK will stop being C:Shiny Marines With Power Weapons and fluff-murder
unfortunately, with the recent amount of Ward in Gw, it's more likely to be Codex: Ultramarines before my wish is granted.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

They probably wouldn't have such a poor player base if they didn't keep them without updates for so long! Also known as the "Cycle of Fail". Because GW devotes all its resources to SM, others get left behind, those that get left behind, get less popular because they start to suck, and then nobody uses them, thus they end up with no player base!

Yeah. At the LGS one guy keeps insisting that Templars aren't in a hurry to get updated because they're not a popular faction. Well gee, I wonder why, with a 7-year-old (well, it'll be 8 this year) Codex. From what I've read (I only started the hobby in June/July) BT was very popular first with Codex: Armageddon and then with the actual Codex release. But now, 7+ years later, is it any surprise that the newer, more competitive SM codices get all the players instead?

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Arcani wrote:
This:

-Codex: Space Marines (or Adeptus Astartes): All marines in one. Each of the main (BA, Ultra, BT, White Scars, DA, Salamanders, SW, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists and Iron Hands) gets their own devoted special rules page and hero.
-Codex: Imperial Guard: Same as Marines, normal guard with some more tanks and maybe some more specialist units, but: DKoK, Cadia, Catachan, Mordian Guard, Tallarn, Tanith First, Elysians and Valhallans each get their own page with special rules and their own hero.
-Codex: Inquisition: Grey Knights, Sisters, Deathwatch and Inquisitors all in one.

-Codex Ork Klans: Orks, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special clan rules.

-Codex Deamons of Caos: the horrors of the Warp.
-Codex Legions of Chaos: Traitor marines and traitor guard, including things like the Blood Pact; again with special rules per each god, and special characters that give overall traits.

-Codex: Craftworld Eldar: Eldar, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special craftworld rules.
-Codex: Dark Eldar: DE. with heroes, that provide special rules, and special cabal rules.

-Codex: Necrons: Necrons, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special tomb world rules.

-Codex: Tau: Tau Empire, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special sept rules. Maybe some purely alien auxiliary armies like Kroot (not Vespid though, they aren't widespread enough.)

-Codex: Tyranids: Tyranids, with heroes, that provide special rules, and special hive fleet rules, like Behemoth gains Known Enemy: Space Marines, or even more specific, Ultramarines.

Now, I know that this will cause a lot of problems. This would basically require a reboot of almost the whole game, but I think it would be worth it, as long as Games Workshop shows us that they are at least capable of rational thinking. And it also lowers the codex volume by 4.
Another problem would be the amount of specializations an army could have and the confusion this might cause. You could have a, not only Space Marines or IG or Tau army, but a Space Marines White Scars very fast army, or Imperial Guard Artillery Regiment with close defense units, or a Tau version of the Halo: ODST.
I think this would be awesome, not only because it would make games (and lists a lot more challenging) but it would make specialist armies a whole lot cheaper (Games Workshop does hate this though) to build. I have a friend who likes BA and SW, and he almost literally had to buy two armies that were almost completely identical except for Commander Dante/Njal Stormcaller and the Sanguinary Guard/Wolf Guard.
This system of mini-dexes within a codex also is technically a new codex, for the OP.

Same thing like I said, and this would be the best way becaue you can try almost every mix.
Like they guys said: "Space Marines White Scars very fast army, or Imperial Guard Artillery Regiment with close defense units, or a Tau version of the Halo: ODST." So everybody woud lbe able to build the army they like.

The only correction I would add here: Sisters of Battle shoud lbe in Codex: Adeptus Ministorum or Codex: Ecclesiarchy. The yare army of the Imperial Chruch, not Inquisition.

I would put the inquisition under an Ecclesiarchy book as we all know who the inquisition was anyway. It makes more sense. SoBs would be great in an Ecclesiarchy book but should be fielded as their own army, not dependant on Whitchunters or Inquisitors.

 Isthatagreengreyknight? wrote:
Honestly, i think they should rewrite C:GK, and introduce,
Codex: Ordo Malleus
Codex: Ordo Xenos
Codex: Ordo Hereticus
It'll be 1st, super cool to see what a hereticus army would look like, 2nd, love for Deathwatch, and 3rd C:GK will stop being C:Shiny Marines With Power Weapons and fluff-murder
unfortunately, with the recent amount of Ward in Gw, it's more likely to be Codex: Ultramarines before my wish is granted.

They won't re-write the GK codex for at least a couple of years as they are one of the most recent GW books

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I'm sorry you hate the multiple Marine codices so much, but consider that the profits GW pulls in off of those full-sized books is what allowed them to re-invent and re-release long neglected armies with little to no player base like DE or Necrons.

They probably wouldn't have such a poor player base if they didn't keep them without updates for so long! Also known as the "Cycle of Fail". Because GW devotes all its resources to SM, others get left behind, those that get left behind, get less popular because they start to suck, and then nobody uses them, thus they end up with no player base!

Apart from the Vanilla Codex, the only Marine Codex released during 5th edition that wasn't two editions old was the Blood Angels Codec, which was updated from a White Dwarf PDF. It's almost as if all the Space Marine Codices updated during 5th (again, apart from Vanilla, which is more or less the base against which other Codices are judged) weren't updated just because they were Space Marines, as is often implied, but because their books were flippin' ancient. If GW updated every Marine Codex every edition you might have an argument, but they don't. Marine armies wait just as long for their update (excepting Vanilla) as any other faction.

GW can't keep up with the armies it has, and you want a new faction?

We are in the 6th Edition of Warhammer 40K, and there are still armies using codex books from 3rd Edition.

 Isthatagreengreyknight? wrote:
Honestly, i think they should rewrite C:GK, and introduce,
Codex: Ordo Malleus
Codex: Ordo Xenos
Codex: Ordo Hereticus
It'll be 1st, super cool to see what a hereticus army would look like, 2nd, love for Deathwatch, and 3rd C:GK will stop being C:Shiny Marines With Power Weapons and fluff-murder
unfortunately, with the recent amount of Ward in Gw, it's more likely to be Codex: Ultramarines before my wish is granted.

People keep advocating for stuff like this, but it makes no sense. Inquisitors don't typically field armies, they just sometimes accompany Grey Knights, IG, Sisters, or SM. The Ordo Hereticus has no army, just Inquisitors. The Deathwatch doesn't operate as an army, they operate as single strike squads (usually) sent behind enemy lines for a special mission. So unless you want an army entirely composed of one squad of 5-10 guys, a Deathwatch army wouldn't make sense.

 Tamwulf wrote:
GW can't keep up with the armies it has, and you want a new faction?

We are in the 6th Edition of Warhammer 40K, and there are still armies using codex books from 3rd Edition.

The oldest Codex (Black Templars) is from 4th edition...

Sisters are still using models from second edition as their primary infantry unit, and I would hardly call the pdf "codex" an actual codex

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
GW can't keep up with the armies it has, and you want a new faction?

We are in the 6th Edition of Warhammer 40K, and there are still armies using codex books from 3rd Edition.

The oldest Codex (Black Templars) is from 4th edition...

Ahem, Tau, Eldar, Deamons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I'm sorry you hate the multiple Marine codices so much, but consider that the profits GW pulls in off of those full-sized books is what allowed them to re-invent and re-release long neglected armies with little to no player base like DE or Necrons.

They probably wouldn't have such a poor player base if they didn't keep them without updates for so long! Also known as the "Cycle of Fail". Because GW devotes all its resources to SM, others get left behind, those that get left behind, get less popular because they start to suck, and then nobody uses them, thus they end up with no player base!

Apart from the Vanilla Codex, the only Marine Codex released during 5th edition that wasn't two editions old was the Blood Angels Codec, which was updated from a White Dwarf PDF. It's almost as if all the Space Marine Codices updated during 5th (again, apart from Vanilla, which is more or less the base against which other Codices are judged) weren't updated just because they were Space Marines, as is often implied, but because their books were flippin' ancient. If GW updated every Marine Codex every edition you might have an argument, but they don't. Marine armies wait just as long for their update (excepting Vanilla) as any other faction.

Yeah, but the armies updated to 5th Ed were:
SM
BA
SW
GK

CSM
Orks
Dark Eldar
Necrons
IG
Tyranids

Thats 4/10, 2/5, that's a lot if you ask me. Especially when the Imperium is supposed to be "outnumbered, outgunned and outmatched."

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Yes.
Codex: Iron Hands
Codex: Deathwatch
Codex: Salamanders
Codex: Crimson Fists
Codex: White Scars
Codex: Imperial Fists
Codex: Ultramarines
Codex: Raven Guard


Hey GW, do you guys read this?

I think a much more effective approach to this is to do something like they do with vulkan, you get chapter tactics. As much as i want to see salamanders, crimson fists, ect ect, have their own codex, most of them would be the same with a few rules changed. Also ultramarines have a codex, its the SM codex haha that is their codex.

 Arcani wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
GW can't keep up with the armies it has, and you want a new faction?

We are in the 6th Edition of Warhammer 40K, and there are still armies using codex books from 3rd Edition.

The oldest Codex (Black Templars) is from 4th edition...

Ahem, Tau, Eldar, Deamons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I'm sorry you hate the multiple Marine codices so much, but consider that the profits GW pulls in off of those full-sized books is what allowed them to re-invent and re-release long neglected armies with little to no player base like DE or Necrons.

They probably wouldn't have such a poor player base if they didn't keep them without updates for so long! Also known as the "Cycle of Fail". Because GW devotes all its resources to SM, others get left behind, those that get left behind, get less popular because they start to suck, and then nobody uses them, thus they end up with no player base!

Apart from the Vanilla Codex, the only Marine Codex released during 5th edition that wasn't two editions old was the Blood Angels Codec, which was updated from a White Dwarf PDF. It's almost as if all the Space Marine Codices updated during 5th (again, apart from Vanilla, which is more or less the base against which other Codices are judged) weren't updated just because they were Space Marines, as is often implied, but because their books were flippin' ancient. If GW updated every Marine Codex every edition you might have an argument, but they don't. Marine armies wait just as long for their update (excepting Vanilla) as any other faction.

Yeah, but the armies updated to 5th Ed were:
SM
BA
SW
GK

CSM
Orks
Dark Eldar
Necrons
IG
Tyranids

Thats 4/10, 2/5, that's a lot if you ask me. Especially when the Imperium is supposed to be "outnumbered, outgunned and outmatched."

All the Codices you listed are newer than Black Templars, thanks for making my point for me.

As for being outnumbered, CSM wasn't updated in 5th (neither were Orks or Daemons, but they were close enough IMO) and you missed out on SoB which means that, when also counting C: IG, it's a 6/11 margin for the Imperium. Considering, however, that 8 of 16 armies are Imperial, this is not that far away from the "fair" distribution of 5/5.

But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

Why not?

 Arcani wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
GW can't keep up with the armies it has, and you want a new faction?

We are in the 6th Edition of Warhammer 40K, and there are still armies using codex books from 3rd Edition.

The oldest Codex (Black Templars) is from 4th edition...

Ahem, Tau and Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I'm sorry you hate the multiple Marine codices so much, but consider that the profits GW pulls in off of those full-sized books is what allowed them to re-invent and re-release long neglected armies with little to no player base like DE or Necrons.

They probably wouldn't have such a poor player base if they didn't keep them without updates for so long! Also known as the "Cycle of Fail". Because GW devotes all its resources to SM, others get left behind, those that get left behind, get less popular because they start to suck, and then nobody uses them, thus they end up with no player base!

Apart from the Vanilla Codex, the only Marine Codex released during 5th edition that wasn't two editions old was the Blood Angels Codec, which was updated from a White Dwarf PDF. It's almost as if all the Space Marine Codices updated during 5th (again, apart from Vanilla, which is more or less the base against which other Codices are judged) weren't updated just because they were Space Marines, as is often implied, but because their books were flippin' ancient. If GW updated every Marine Codex every edition you might have an argument, but they don't. Marine armies wait just as long for their update (excepting Vanilla) as any other faction.

Yeah, but the armies updated to 5th Ed were:
SM
BA
SW
GK

CSM
Orks
Dark Eldar
Necrons
IG
Tyranids

Thats 4/10, 2/5, that's a lot if you ask me. Especially when the Imperium is supposed to be "outnumbered, outgunned and outmatched."

Firstly look up the publish date of the Templars Codex its older than both of those.

Second your list is wrong
Yeah, but the armies updated to 5th Ed were:

SM (4 years)
BA (12 years if you don't include the White dwarf 5 if you do.)
SW (waited 9 years)
GK (7 years from deamon hunters)

Dark Eldar (12 years)
Necrons (9 years)
IG (6 years)
Tyranids (5 years)

Templars (Waiting since November 2005)
Tau (March 2006)
Eldar (November 2006)

So yeah the numbers look a little different when written out.

They cant keep up with a decent codex release cycle as it is. No

zephoid wrote:
They cant keep up with a decent codex release cycle as it is. No

This. Unless its another marine army.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

Please give a Logical reason as to why not.

Here are some reasons why Xenos/Chaos Armies are less Represented

Eldar-There are few Craftworlds and consequently few Eldar.
Tau- A blip on the imperial radar that most people don't even know about.
Dark Eldar- Comorragh is one city so there aren't that many of them.
Necrons-Okay not all are waking up.
Orks- They are numerous but they don't need much more to continue being crazy fun. Ask most ork players they just want price tweaks and a few new fun toys.
Deamons-Yeah not that numerous.
Chaos Spess Marines- They are only really around a few places.
Tyranids-No one has a clue.

The Imperium of Man is huge the rest of the factions are not.

 captain collius wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

Please give a Logical reason as to why not.

Here are some reasons why Xenos/Chaos Armies are less Represented

Eldar-There are few Craftworlds and consequently few Eldar.
Tau- A blip on the imperial radar that most people don't even know about.
Dark Eldar- Comorragh is one city so there aren't that many of them.
Necrons-Okay not all are waking up.
Orks- They are numerous but they don't need much more to continue being crazy fun. Ask most ork players they just want price tweaks and a few new fun toys.
Deamons-Yeah not that numerous.
Chaos Spess Marines- They are only really around a few places.
Tyranids-No one has a clue.

The Imperium of Man is huge the rest of the factions are not.

You're telling me that there aren't any more Xenos factions in the entire galaxy?

There's the Ulumeathic Confederation.
The chaps on the Grendl Stars.
Genestealer Cults.

There's several more armies that they could do or pull out of their ass before making any more imperials.

But even if you look at what Imperial armies there are:
- Vanilla Marines
- SW
- BA
- BT
- DA
- GK
- SoB
- IG

5/8 are fething Marines! And they're only tiny chapters! Are you telling me that there aren't specialised IG regiments that cannot be represented by other non-FW codices?

Also, what about Traitor Legions? They're massive and unique - World Eaters are incredibly different to Emperor's Children - yet they're lumped in with the rest of the 'orrible lot. Yet somehow Black fething Templars are more deserving than the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some shape or form?

Revised Codex list after reading popular opinion:

-Codex: Space Marines
-Codex: Ultramarines
-Codex: Blood Angels
-Codex: Space Wolves
-Codex: Grey Knights
-Codex: Dark Angels
-Codex: Black Templars
-Codex: Imperial Fists
-Codex: Iron Hands
-Codex: Ravenguard
-Codex: Salamanders
-Codex: Crimson Fists
-Codex: Deathwatch
-Codex: Rainbow Warriors
-Codex: Imperial Servants
-Codex: Xenos
-Codex: Chaos

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

Please give a Logical reason as to why not.

Here are some reasons why Xenos/Chaos Armies are less Represented

Eldar-There are few Craftworlds and consequently few Eldar.
Tau- A blip on the imperial radar that most people don't even know about.
Dark Eldar- Comorragh is one city so there aren't that many of them.
Necrons-Okay not all are waking up.
Orks- They are numerous but they don't need much more to continue being crazy fun. Ask most ork players they just want price tweaks and a few new fun toys.
Deamons-Yeah not that numerous.
Chaos Spess Marines- They are only really around a few places.
Tyranids-No one has a clue.

The Imperium of Man is huge the rest of the factions are not.

You're telling me that there aren't any more Xenos factions in the entire galaxy?

There's the Ulumeathic Confederation.
The chaps on the Grendl Stars.
Genestealer Cults.

There's several more armies that they could do or pull out of their ass before making any more imperials.

But even if you look at what Imperial armies there are:
- Vanilla Marines
- SW
- BA
- BT
- DA
- GK
- SoB
- IG

5/8 are fething Marines! And they're only tiny chapters! Are you telling me that there aren't specialised IG regiments that cannot be represented by other non-FW codices?

Also, what about Traitor Legions? They're massive and unique - World Eaters are incredibly different to Emperor's Children - yet they're lumped in with the rest of the 'orrible lot. Yet somehow Black fething Templars are more deserving than the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some shape or form?

Said "Black fething Templars" ARE the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some way, shape or form. Thanks for playing though.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

Please give a Logical reason as to why not.

Here are some reasons why Xenos/Chaos Armies are less Represented

Eldar-There are few Craftworlds and consequently few Eldar.
Tau- A blip on the imperial radar that most people don't even know about.
Dark Eldar- Comorragh is one city so there aren't that many of them.
Necrons-Okay not all are waking up.
Orks- They are numerous but they don't need much more to continue being crazy fun. Ask most ork players they just want price tweaks and a few new fun toys.
Deamons-Yeah not that numerous.
Chaos Spess Marines- They are only really around a few places.
Tyranids-No one has a clue.

The Imperium of Man is huge the rest of the factions are not.

You're telling me that there aren't any more Xenos factions in the entire galaxy?

There's the Ulumeathic Confederation.
The chaps on the Grendl Stars.
Genestealer Cults.

There's several more armies that they could do or pull out of their ass before making any more imperials.

But even if you look at what Imperial armies there are:
- Vanilla Marines
- SW
- BA
- BT
- DA
- GK
- SoB
- IG

5/8 are fething Marines! And they're only tiny chapters! Are you telling me that there aren't specialised IG regiments that cannot be represented by other non-FW codices?

Also, what about Traitor Legions? They're massive and unique - World Eaters are incredibly different to Emperor's Children - yet they're lumped in with the rest of the 'orrible lot. Yet somehow Black fething Templars are more deserving than the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some shape or form?

I'm not telling you there aren't more i'm giving reasons as to why they are less represented. Also look through my old posts I am no Protector of Black Templars. I've disagreed with them many times Ask AlmightyWalrus and D3molition we've argued many times. The facts are that if there were so many kits of Chaos being sold they would break down the books more but there are not.

Also I'm all for Spliting the IG. Allow me to do Valhallans with a Unique Codex!

But again People don't buy enough! So say what you want reality is.

Also here is a funny fact i know more BT players then IG.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

Please give a Logical reason as to why not.

Here are some reasons why Xenos/Chaos Armies are less Represented

Eldar-There are few Craftworlds and consequently few Eldar.
Tau- A blip on the imperial radar that most people don't even know about.
Dark Eldar- Comorragh is one city so there aren't that many of them.
Necrons-Okay not all are waking up.
Orks- They are numerous but they don't need much more to continue being crazy fun. Ask most ork players they just want price tweaks and a few new fun toys.
Deamons-Yeah not that numerous.
Chaos Spess Marines- They are only really around a few places.
Tyranids-No one has a clue.

The Imperium of Man is huge the rest of the factions are not.

You're telling me that there aren't any more Xenos factions in the entire galaxy?

There's the Ulumeathic Confederation.
The chaps on the Grendl Stars.
Genestealer Cults.

There's several more armies that they could do or pull out of their ass before making any more imperials.

But even if you look at what Imperial armies there are:
- Vanilla Marines
- SW
- BA
- BT
- DA
- GK
- SoB
- IG

5/8 are fething Marines! And they're only tiny chapters! Are you telling me that there aren't specialised IG regiments that cannot be represented by other non-FW codices?

Also, what about Traitor Legions? They're massive and unique - World Eaters are incredibly different to Emperor's Children - yet they're lumped in with the rest of the 'orrible lot. Yet somehow Black fething Templars are more deserving than the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some shape or form?

Said "Black fething Templars" ARE the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some way, shape or form. Thanks for playing though.

What? The Black Templars are somehow the equal of the World Eaters, the Death Guard, the Emperor's Children, the Black Legion, Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion etc? Even though at best a Black Templar warrior is 700 years old while a member of the World Eaters may be able to remember events that happened 10,000 years ago?

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

Please give a Logical reason as to why not.

Here are some reasons why Xenos/Chaos Armies are less Represented

Eldar-There are few Craftworlds and consequently few Eldar.
Tau- A blip on the imperial radar that most people don't even know about.
Dark Eldar- Comorragh is one city so there aren't that many of them.
Necrons-Okay not all are waking up.
Orks- They are numerous but they don't need much more to continue being crazy fun. Ask most ork players they just want price tweaks and a few new fun toys.
Deamons-Yeah not that numerous.
Chaos Spess Marines- They are only really around a few places.
Tyranids-No one has a clue.

The Imperium of Man is huge the rest of the factions are not.

You're telling me that there aren't any more Xenos factions in the entire galaxy?

There's the Ulumeathic Confederation.
The chaps on the Grendl Stars.
Genestealer Cults.

There's several more armies that they could do or pull out of their ass before making any more imperials.

But even if you look at what Imperial armies there are:
- Vanilla Marines
- SW
- BA
- BT
- DA
- GK
- SoB
- IG

5/8 are fething Marines! And they're only tiny chapters! Are you telling me that there aren't specialised IG regiments that cannot be represented by other non-FW codices?

Also, what about Traitor Legions? They're massive and unique - World Eaters are incredibly different to Emperor's Children - yet they're lumped in with the rest of the 'orrible lot. Yet somehow Black fething Templars are more deserving than the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some shape or form?

Said "Black fething Templars" ARE the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some way, shape or form. Thanks for playing though.

What? The Black Templars are somehow the equal of the World Eaters, the Death Guard, the Emperor's Children, the Black Legion, Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion etc? Even though at best a Black Templar warrior is 700 years old while a member of the World Eaters may be able to remember events that happened 10,000 years ago?

Legion. Singular. That's what you said, remember? "[...]the remnants of a mighty legion[...]"

And then there's the part where time does not flow normally in the warp. For all we know, they could have a million years of experience, or they could have 400 years of experience. The direction GW has taken doesn't seem to place an average legionnaire above a loyalist in skill, purely stat-wise before upgrades.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

Please give a Logical reason as to why not.

Here are some reasons why Xenos/Chaos Armies are less Represented

Eldar-There are few Craftworlds and consequently few Eldar.
Tau- A blip on the imperial radar that most people don't even know about.
Dark Eldar- Comorragh is one city so there aren't that many of them.
Necrons-Okay not all are waking up.
Orks- They are numerous but they don't need much more to continue being crazy fun. Ask most ork players they just want price tweaks and a few new fun toys.
Deamons-Yeah not that numerous.
Chaos Spess Marines- They are only really around a few places.
Tyranids-No one has a clue.

The Imperium of Man is huge the rest of the factions are not.

You're telling me that there aren't any more Xenos factions in the entire galaxy?

There's the Ulumeathic Confederation.
The chaps on the Grendl Stars.
Genestealer Cults.

There's several more armies that they could do or pull out of their ass before making any more imperials.

But even if you look at what Imperial armies there are:
- Vanilla Marines
- SW
- BA
- BT
- DA
- GK
- SoB
- IG

5/8 are fething Marines! And they're only tiny chapters! Are you telling me that there aren't specialised IG regiments that cannot be represented by other non-FW codices?

Also, what about Traitor Legions? They're massive and unique - World Eaters are incredibly different to Emperor's Children - yet they're lumped in with the rest of the 'orrible lot. Yet somehow Black fething Templars are more deserving than the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some shape or form?

Said "Black fething Templars" ARE the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some way, shape or form. Thanks for playing though.

What? The Black Templars are somehow the equal of the World Eaters, the Death Guard, the Emperor's Children, the Black Legion, Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion etc? Even though at best a Black Templar warrior is 700 years old while a member of the World Eaters may be able to remember events that happened 10,000 years ago?

Legion. Singular. That's what you said, remember? "[...]the remnants of a mighty legion[...]"

And then there's the part where time does not flow normally in the warp. For all we know, they could have a million years of experience, or they could have 400 years of experience. The direction GW has taken doesn't seem to place an average legionnaire above a loyalist in skill, purely stat-wise before upgrades.

The point is though that the Traitors have been neglected, even though many factions are huge and powerful, while the Imperials have been promoted constantly. Let's take Abaddon - he is an old warrior and a great warrior. His profile doesn't match his fluff - the leader of 13 mighty coalitions of Chaos warriors.

And the reason why they haven't stat-wise placed the legionnaire above a loyalist is because a CSM profile doesn't necessarily represent an ancient warrior of thousands of battles. It could be the latest guppy to join the Chaos Space Marine bandwagon. That's a major flaw in the system.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But it really shouldn't be 8/16 Imperial armies!

Please give a Logical reason as to why not.

Here are some reasons why Xenos/Chaos Armies are less Represented

Eldar-There are few Craftworlds and consequently few Eldar.
Tau- A blip on the imperial radar that most people don't even know about.
Dark Eldar- Comorragh is one city so there aren't that many of them.
Necrons-Okay not all are waking up.
Orks- They are numerous but they don't need much more to continue being crazy fun. Ask most ork players they just want price tweaks and a few new fun toys.
Deamons-Yeah not that numerous.
Chaos Spess Marines- They are only really around a few places.
Tyranids-No one has a clue.

The Imperium of Man is huge the rest of the factions are not.

You're telling me that there aren't any more Xenos factions in the entire galaxy?

There's the Ulumeathic Confederation.
The chaps on the Grendl Stars.
Genestealer Cults.

There's several more armies that they could do or pull out of their ass before making any more imperials.

But even if you look at what Imperial armies there are:
- Vanilla Marines
- SW
- BA
- BT
- DA
- GK
- SoB
- IG

5/8 are fething Marines! And they're only tiny chapters! Are you telling me that there aren't specialised IG regiments that cannot be represented by other non-FW codices?

Also, what about Traitor Legions? They're massive and unique - World Eaters are incredibly different to Emperor's Children - yet they're lumped in with the rest of the 'orrible lot. Yet somehow Black fething Templars are more deserving than the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some shape or form?

Said "Black fething Templars" ARE the remnants of a mighty legion that has existed for 10,000 years in some way, shape or form. Thanks for playing though.

What? The Black Templars are somehow the equal of the World Eaters, the Death Guard, the Emperor's Children, the Black Legion, Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion etc? Even though at best a Black Templar warrior is 700 years old while a member of the World Eaters may be able to remember events that happened 10,000 years ago?

BT has been Crusading since the end of the Heresy. 10,000 years. Our original Chapter Master (former IF Sigismund) is quite possibly the only guy to best Kharn. We also outnumber pretty much every chapter out there. We are at legion strength. We are fully capable of burning each and every one of those dirty traitors and witches.

Except the Alpha Legion. Because they dont exist.

Your warriors, however, aren't 10,000 years old, are they?

Abaddon's profile that lets him beat pretty much anyone except Ghazghkul (assuming Waaagh!) or the Swarmlord in a 1v1? That profile? Yup, too weak, he needs straight 10s all over the place!

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Your warriors, however, aren't 10,000 years old, are they?

Far from all CSM are and, again, time is a nebulous concept in the Warp.

I do honestly think that CSM should get some seperate codecies, but GW really needs to get their gak together and update what theyve already got.

I for one would scoop up Codex: Iron Warriors in a heartbeat.

Come on! Even if the marines do this and that, and exterminated A and B, and have participated in X and Y, they don't need a codex each.
I mean, come on! We might as well call in Space Marine 40k. There's no reason for the fact that marines have more than everyone else except the fact that they sell better. They don't have good characters (they're all mindless monk/killing machines), they make for crappy stories (bolter porn) and are over hyped.
The only fething reason that there is more than one Marine codex is that GW thinks with its wallet, and its working. How many marine players are there, at least 60% of all 40k is loyalist marines, 65% if you count Chaos in.

Also, marine money goes into xenos, really? If GW think that they could drop Tau, Necrons or Dark Eldar, just to make more money on marines, they would do it without blinking. They don't give a crap about the smaller xenos races and their fans.
I mean look at the rulebook, it's ANOTHER-FETHING-MARINE on the cover, SERIOUSLY!
It's War HAMMER 40k, nor Space Marine 40k, it's supposed to be a game where you can tell a story of Imperium vs Xenos and Xenos vs Xenos. But you go into a tournament and it'll look like the Horus Heresy again: BT vs DA, DA vs BA, BA vs SW, SW vs SM and SM vs BT all over the fething place.

 Arcani wrote:
Come on! Even if the marines do this and that, and exterminated A and B, and have participated in X and Y, they don't need a codex each.
I mean, come on! We might as well call in Space Marine 40k. There's no reason for the fact that marines have more than everyone else except the fact that they sell better. They don't have good characters (they're all mindless monk/killing machines), they make for crappy stories (bolter porn) and are over hyped.
The only fething reason that there is more than one Marine codex is that GW thinks with its wallet, and its working. How many marine players are there, at least 60% of all 40k is loyalist marines, 65% if you count Chaos in.

Also, marine money goes into xenos, really? If GW think that they could drop Tau, Necrons or Dark Eldar, just to make more money on marines, they would do it without blinking. They don't give a crap about the smaller xenos races and their fans.
I mean look at the rulebook, it's ANOTHER-FETHING-MARINE on the cover, SERIOUSLY!
It's War HAMMER 40k, nor Space Marine 40k, it's supposed to be a game where you can tell a story of Imperium vs Xenos and Xenos vs Xenos. But you go into a tournament and it'll look like the Horus Heresy again: BT vs DA, DA vs BA, BA vs SW, SW vs SM and SM vs BT all over the fething place.

SMs and IG are always going the sell because theyre are human beings, and therefore more identifiable to the public. You will never change that. But I promise you that 9 out of 10 SM players have branched out to start a Xenos army down the road. And people who started Xenos picked up an SM chapter later. I know I did; I started with Orks. And Ive got Nids on the way.

As long as it isn't an Imperium army, then sure.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
But even if you look at what Imperial armies there are:
- Vanilla Marines
- SW
- BA
- BT
- DA
- GK
- SoB
- IG

5/8 are fething Marines!

Six out of eight. C:GK does count as a Marine codex. Grey Knights are Space Marines. They're on the fething cover. The codex is named after them.

Similar with people who exclude C:CSM from the overall count of marines. Chaos Whinyboy McSpikypants Marines are still Marines in the lore. Heretic space marines are still space marines. Which makes it as 7 Space Marine codices compared to 9 non-Space Marine codices. This despite the fact that GW makes Space Marines in to a relatively insignificant part of he lore

 Backspacehacker wrote:

I think a much more effective approach to this is to do something like they do with vulkan, you get chapter tactics. As much as i want to see salamanders, crimson fists, ect ect, have their own codex, most of them would be the same with a few rules changed. Also ultramarines have a codex, its the SM codex haha that is their codex.

Chapter tactics (or other similar assignable Chapter traits) are a great idea, tying them to special characters is however a horrible idea.

Aaaaaannnd people have started referring to factions in this thread as "we".

I figure this one has come to its logical closure point, haha.

Notice how that's not an Ork statue outside GW HQ?

Then there's this interview with Dan Abnett.

Thirdly, if 70% (made-up number) of the player base plays one faction, would it not, for the sake of the so-oft cherished diversity, be better to have said players split over multiple, different books rather than everyone playing the same thing? It sure as hell makes more sense than splitting 8% (again, made-up number) of the player base over multiple books.

Thirdly, if 70% (made-up number) of the player base plays one faction, would it not, for the sake of the so-oft cherished diversity, be better to have said players split over multiple, different books rather than everyone playing the same thing? It sure as hell makes more sense than splitting 8% (again, made-up number) of the player base over multiple books.

Seeing as if the books were done with the entire ability to play multiple types of "Chapters" in one book, they wouldn't all be playing the same thing now would it.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Aaaaaannnd people have started referring to factions in this thread as "we".

I figure this one has come to its logical closure point, haha.

I was actually starting to get warmed up, but yes, you're right.

 Arcani wrote:
The only fething reason that there is more than one Marine codex is that GW thinks with its wallet, and its working. How many marine players are there, at least 60% of all 40k is loyalist marines, 65% if you count Chaos in.

If GW had any business sense they'd actually update their codices, SM and otherwise. More updates, more book sales.

Personally I don't really care all that much whether SM books were coalesced into a single one, other than that it'd be annoying to haul around because it'd be so big - basically the size of the hardcover BRB. And as such clumsy to use in the end, probably, due to such a huge number of units, special characters and chapter-specific rules.

I also wouldn't mind Traitor Legion codices, though those could've simply been done in the CSM codex by going into more detail. They chose not to, so it's not gonna happen. Nor is the SM "merger", as clearly evidenced by the DA codex.

As for the Xenos codices, why would we need more, even assuming GW would actually keep them as well as the factions we already ahve up to date? More isn't always better. It's quite possible that they don't have any ideas they think would work as a new army. Someone listed a few xenos possibilities. But how many have even heard of those? I haven't. Well, except the Genestealer Cults in passing. Would I be interested in them? Probably not. As it is the only xenos I have interest in are the Orks, the rest I couldn't care less about. Which doesn't mean that I'd think they don't deserve up to date codices, because they do, but so do the Imperials. Though currently only SoB and BT are in a "hurry" to get a new Codex, IG and now with the new DA codex all the SM chapters seem to be doing fine.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Thirdly, if 70% (made-up number) of the player base plays one faction, would it not, for the sake of the so-oft cherished diversity, be better to have said players split over multiple, different books rather than everyone playing the same thing? It sure as hell makes more sense than splitting 8% (again, made-up number) of the player base over multiple books.

Seeing as if the books were done with the entire ability to play multiple types of "Chapters" in one book, they wouldn't all be playing the same thing now would it.

In order for that to work, you'd either need a ridiculous amount of options, à la CSM 3.5 (which was a convoluted mess) or you'd have to axe a whole lot of options, which is a pretty interesting way of keeping diversity (and, again, ask the current CSM players how they feel about losing options). The current Vanilla Codex is already pretty huge. Adding more to it won't solve anything.

Besides, the current issue isn't that GW can't keep up, but rather that they won't, as that'd create unrealistic expectations from the shareholders. Releasing all of their "safe cards" at once would be economic suicide.

In order for that to work, you'd either need a ridiculous amount of options, à la CSM 3.5 (which was a convoluted mess) or you'd have to axe a whole lot of options, which is a pretty interesting way of keeping diversity (and, again, ask the current CSM players how they feel about losing options). The current Vanilla Codex is already pretty huge. Adding more to it won't solve anything.

Everyone says 3.5 was convoluted, but it was really quite simple. Also I had my entire army squatted upon the shift to 4.0. So seeing entire armies of SM get more and more for each chapter, Where upon you could literally play chaos legion better with them, along with the fact that SM players complain about 3.5 and say we never should have those options again... Bit of Sour Grapes for me I suppose.

They could easily fit more in if they cut down the full pages dedicated to a unit, and condensed them down. Fluff options in the front, with stats for the "Same" types of units after.

Also it is the space marines that are keeping GW afloat in the recession. So it may be a choice between a load of marine codexes and some xenos , or no codex's at all

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Everyone says 3.5 was convoluted, but it was really quite simple. Also I had my entire army squatted upon the shift to 4.0. So seeing entire armies of SM get more and more for each chapter, Where upon you could literally play chaos legion better with them, along with the fact that SM players complain about 3.5 and say we never should have those options again... Bit of Sour Grapes for me I suppose.

They could easily fit more in if they cut down the full pages dedicated to a unit, and condensed them down. Fluff options in the front, with stats for the "Same" types of units after.

TBH they shouldn't have squatted/removed entire armies from the CSM book the way they did (I'm assuming you're talking about IW?), but the result from them doing that should, if anything, be an argument in favour of never doing it again.

And "condense" often comes awfully close to "remove stuff". What exactly would you condense? I'm not sure I understand your suggestion.

Cant believe its 5 pages in and no one pointed out that the current hardback codex prices is what, £30? And general consensus is that its a tad too much correct? It's all well and good saying "roll all marines into 1 it'll be fine". Maybe it would, but its still going to make the codex bigger (even if it isnt the 500page monster joked about). Point is can you imagine how much they would charge for a bigger codex?

Yep, but that would stop every other person being a marine player, so that there is more diversity in the armies we get to play against

in all seriousness, GW should make mini-dexes anyway.

They were already going to raise the price anyway, not like that'll make much of a difference.

I would say no, it takes them 10 years to update some of the current factions.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Everyone says 3.5 was convoluted, but it was really quite simple. Also I had my entire army squatted upon the shift to 4.0. So seeing entire armies of SM get more and more for each chapter, Where upon you could literally play chaos legion better with them, along with the fact that SM players complain about 3.5 and say we never should have those options again... Bit of Sour Grapes for me I suppose.

They could easily fit more in if they cut down the full pages dedicated to a unit, and condensed them down. Fluff options in the front, with stats for the "Same" types of units after.

TBH they shouldn't have squatted/removed entire armies from the CSM book the way they did (I'm assuming you're talking about IW?), but the result from them doing that should, if anything, be an argument in favour of never doing it again.

And "condense" often comes awfully close to "remove stuff". What exactly would you condense? I'm not sure I understand your suggestion.

Condense the fluff pages down. You don't need separate pages for each and every type of Space marine unit. First you condense the common units (Tacticals, assault, devestators, scouts, the vehicles, etc) then you give fluff for what's different. (Black templar crusader units, grey hunters, blah blah). They successfully did it in the HH Betrayal book, I suggest taking a look, it's nice.

Also no, I didn't have IW. I had Slaanesh, blastmaster predator tanks and dreadnoughts, slaanesh daemons, a few cult units, chaos lord sorcerer, and a few more things of that nature.

More Xenos? Not sure if doesn't know GW, or just delirious. That is all WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP.

P.S. Why not zoidberg?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Thirdly, if 70% (made-up number) of the player base plays one faction, would it not, for the sake of the so-oft cherished diversity, be better to have said players split over multiple, different books rather than everyone playing the same thing? It sure as hell makes more sense than splitting 8% (again, made-up number) of the player base over multiple books.

They're not playing different stuff, they're all playing the same thing with a different paint scheme and have one or two special rules replaced across all the squads. With only a few specific units as exceptions you could make a Space Marine codex and then state that you had to choose a chapter. "Space Wolves all get Counter Attack and Accute Senses", and so on. It would be important not to present a specific chapter and keep it chapter neutral, though.

Regardless of this, making more content and promotions for dominating faction is a short-term investment, and that is all GW is about. It has nothing to do with a recession as someone else put it, but quick dividends. If it actually was about the hobby we'd see more proof-reading, better erratas, and intentional compensations to move the player base away from homogenisation. We'd also see a bit more specialized content being actively promoted in stores to get the old bastards that already got their complete army to expand inside the same company.
Essentially, you're actually cutting your own profit potential per customer by getting them on the road of Space Marines as it is because it's too easy to start a new army. If you go from Eldar to Dark Eldar you need a lot of new models. If you go from Grey Knights to Chaos Space Marines you need less new models but still a lot. If you go from Space Wolves to Blood Angels you need to come up with an excuse for why they are all so cold, but you don't need new models. It is, on the other hand, easier to sell an army to someone with the promise of "if you don't like it, there's a bunchload of others to choose from at the cost of a codex".

Thus all these Marine codexes are being harmful to the hobby.

P.S. There are no Space Slaan/Lizardmen because Myrmidia commited genocide on them a couple of thousand years back in order to save themselves (and accidentally a couple of future Imperial sectors as well). Granted, the story left plenty of room for them to exist, but not as a faction.