Birdy via Darnok over at Warseer wrote:"I have been told that the recent update of apple codex's with rules not updated elsewhere was an oversight by the design team, and that a pdf will become available "once someone has time." As a result of the negative feedback on these ipad updates and whitedwarf content, the design team has said they won't be including rules for armies in whitedwarf anymore."

As I feared, the strict no-content-policy of the current WD team continues. If this is true (and I fear it is), this will also put the flyer update and future new model before Codex rumours to rest. Is there any reason to read a WD two weeks after release anymore?

75hastings69 wrote:Lol, how have they even managed to remove any content from WD? Lol, GW make me smile I swear its like they're deliberately trying to do bad things!

Kroothawk wrote:
As I feared, the strict no-content-policy of the current WD team continues. If this is true (and I fear it is), this will also put the flyer update and future new model before Codex rumours to rest. Is there any reason to read a WD two weeks after release anymore?

I think the real question is...is there a reason to read WD at all anymore?

I mean, pictures can be seen anywhere, and it's not like the rest of the content is exactly worth paying for.

As a non-WD reader this makes me happy. Like Mr Hastings said, making WD worse would require effort.

Yeah, Games Workshop are funny people

 Vaktathi wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:
As I feared, the strict no-content-policy of the current WD team continues. If this is true (and I fear it is), this will also put the flyer update and future new model before Codex rumours to rest. Is there any reason to read a WD two weeks after release anymore?

I think the real question is...is there a reason to read WD at all anymore?

I mean, pictures can be seen anywhere, and it's not like the rest of the content is exactly worth paying for.

You people actually bought that line about bringing actual hobby "content" to their monthly catalogue? Ahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!

I don't think people had an issue with white dwarf updates. Thats actually really cool.

What annoyed people was that there was no way to get the rules if you didn't have an ipad after they were gone.

All they needed to do was release a general pdf (like the hundreds of illegal ones online) after 6 months or so and people would have been happy.

For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Hmm. On one hand, Darnok has an okay record and got the new WD changes right the first time. On the other hand, he was all in on the 'Pancake' edition.

I find it sad but probably accurate.

Should be easy to prove prove/disprove with some of the other rumors of upcoming content.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Yeah, two constants: people are never happy with what GW gives them and GW never does it quite right.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Is there any reason to read a WD two weeks after release anymore?

1.) You live in a silo with guns, beans, and cats. There is no internet, but there is regular mail delivery.
2.) You have brain damage like that guy in Memento, and can only remember things from the last 2 weeks. All the stuff in WD is new when you read it.
3.) You are the mother of one of the writers, and he or she is doing so well, you'd like to pitch in.
4.) 2 more issues, and you'll be able to straighten the couch on both sides.
5.) The new glossy paper really makes your paper-mache masks pop.
6.) You're trying to hook up with a wargamer, so need them to lay casually on your coffee table in case he or she ever drops by.
7.) If you gather 250 consecutive issues of White Dwarf, and burn them atop a pyre of Citradel spray guns, legend has it Gwar will appear and answer a single rules-related question.
8.) You have extreme photophobia, and the light from an ipad or monitor causes intense pain. You can only read magazines by dim candlelight.
9.) Every time there's a picture of Matt Ward, you cut out his face, cross out his eyes with a red pen, and paste it into the ledger. Soon... soon.
10.) Like GW's executive staff, you're pretty sure this "internet thing" will blow over soon, and want something to read when that happens.

I want this reply to be deleted and the thread to be locked with Ouze's reply kept forever as the final post. A perfect answer locked in forum-amber.

Just so long as they don't discontinue WD, I'm happy.

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Sorry if you were being facetious there and I have misunderstood you, but I don't think it was the printing of rules that people dislike - it was that those rules were not easily accessible after the magazine had gone on sale and then sold out.

At this point really I think the best thing they could do is just put the magazine to sleep. I used to keep saying 'they can do it' 'they can do it', so sure was I that there was still the potential for a quality magazine in there, but after more than 5 years I can safely say that none of that hope remains. That there could be such a massive re-launch of the magazine that so hopelessly missed the mark means that obviously GW HQ and the fans who want a quality magazine exist on entirely different planes of existence.

So yep, next round of cost cutting exercises -> bullet to the head, it would be the kindest thing for it.

 Pacific wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Sorry if you were being facetious there and I have misunderstood you, but I don't think it was the printing of rules that people dislike - it was that those rules were not easily accessible after the magazine had gone on sale and then sold out.

You and I and most people on Dakka know that, but GW seems to have drawn another conclusion that fits their paranoia about releasing secret information on new products. I wouldn't be surprised at all, if from WD March onward, all pics of new products would be pixeled

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Because their attempt at bringing back content was awful. It was an incredibly stupid idea to release new rules in a magazine that was immediately sold out and unavailable and then ignore the problem indefinitely by refusing to release a pdf version (even as a paid download) for the people who didn't buy the relevant WD as soon as it was released. And of course these aren't trivial things like new campaign missions (which would be content, but not essential), they're core units for one of the big new mechanics in 6th (flyers) or an update that instantly created a dominating tournament list (demons). Both of these are releases that you have to have if you want to play the game, and the difficulty in getting them is a nice clear statement saying "pirate our rules, don't buy the magazine".

I liked rules in white dwarf, until I decided white dwarf was too expensive for me and swore it off. Now I'm glad I really have no reason to buy it.

 Kroothawk wrote:
You and I and most people on Dakka know that, but GW seems to have drawn another conclusion.

Which, if the rumor is true, is why the people running WD should be fired for their utter stupidity and incompetence.

(Of course that would be just the first step in the necessary purge of GW management, but it's a good place to start.)

Doesn't this conflict massively with some other "update in WD" rumours?

 Kroothawk wrote:

Birdy via Darnok over at Warseer wrote:"I have been told that the recent update of apple codex's with rules not updated elsewhere was an oversight by the design team, and that a pdf will become available "once someone has time." As a result of the negative feedback on these ipad updates and whitedwarf content, the design team has said they won't be including rules for armies in whitedwarf anymore."

As I feared, the strict no-content-policy of the current WD team continues. If this is true (and I fear it is), this will also put the flyer update and future new model before Codex rumours to rest. Is there any reason to read a WD two weeks after release anymore?

75hastings69 wrote:Lol, how have they even managed to remove any content from WD? Lol, GW make me smile I swear its like they're deliberately trying to do bad things!

The imprecise use of language in the text of the rumour has me suspicious that this might just be a miscommunication.

"I have been told that the recent update of apple codex's with rules not updated elsewhere was an oversight by the design team, and that a pdf will become available "once someone has time." As a result of the negative feedback on these ipad updates and whitedwarf content, the [ipad]design team has said they won't be including rules for armies [printed] in whitedwarf [in ipad updates] anymore."

I remember when they'd have fun silly lists for you to try out and enjoy(usually fantasy or LOTR) and painting demo's and terrain building, not just "here's this thing you can buy for this much, buy it"
actual content, you know...
last one I got (a staff member gave it to me after taking out the sisters part) was the Dreadfleet one, and...well I bought Dreadfleet, anyone who didn't that magazine would have been useless besides selling it to sisters players
and even then, I've not met a sisters player yet who thinks anything besides "this is a pile of ass, what were they thinking?!" of that army list

I think this is just another example of GW trying to flatten the bubble sales out. If they have rules in the white dwarf then they sell out, but since they can only write rules every four years then there would be a bubble in the financials. No rules, no bubbles issue solved.

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

the problem was that if you missed that one issue they never made it available through any other method, and unfortunately much of the WD rules content was unfortunately rather poor, especially the Sisters of Battle release. It doesn't help that the Flyer rules are awkwardly bolted on.

It's appears to be an issue of GW simply recording the tone of the feedback rather than the actual informational content of the feedback.

WD isn’t worth the cost of the paper it’s printed on most of the time, but if they were going to do new units and army updates in WD then there was at least a point to those issues.

If they’re going to stop doing that then yeah, what is the draw for WD? It serves no purpose outside of being a pathetically veiled attempt at advertising filled with massive dark pictures and tiny bits of text telling you what’s in the massive dark pictures.

Of course, this could just be another cyclical thing. After the Blood Angel WD Codex they said they’d never to another WD Codex... and then along came the SoB WD Codex a number of years later. So chances are this will last for a while, and then they’ll realise that “selling the new shiny” is more important than whatever problems it causes with iPad releases (after all, this internet thingy is just a fad, so all this IOS stuff doesn’t factor into GW’s long term (ie. 3-6 months) plans) and start putting rules in WD again to go with their fancy new plastic kits.

The design team may say a lot of things. When the people paying their salary say otherwise, I see a remarkable change in tune happening.

Ah well, No Quarter still gets a solid chunk of my cash.

Who is it that is complaining that they are actually listening to?

This is Games Workshop, a company for which, if you look, you can find someone who is complaining about any given thing they do. This complaining seemingly always goes unheeded.

And yet they choose to address this issue?

Meh, the Internet is my only source of news and rumours regarding GW. As HBMC has said, WD is not worth the paper anymore. Which is sad as, like Rainbowdash, I remember when it was actually full of great content. A Tale Of Four Gamers, painting articles regarding actual painting techniques rather than 'This is how our new shiny kit looks after its been painted by a professional!', Rules for creating your own vehicles(!), Interviews with people like Andy Chambers and Adrian Wood, I could go on, but you get the point.

All WD is now is a shiny catalogue, without the bitz ordering service at the back!.....

I miss the Trollz....

HOw bad could the backlash over the iPad updates/new FAQs been? There was only a couple days lag, and then the FAQs were on the site.

This rumor seems probable enough on it's face, but it's asking us to believe that GW was so taken with two days of people saying "WTF is going on here?" that they're making a major editorial change to their magazine.

This is the same company, after all, that takes HUGE hits for everything they do, they have zero responsiveness to most customer criticism, but THIS is the one thing they're listening to fans on, even though the people who complained about this have largely said "Oh, they did new FAQs, too. Cool."

The idea that this tiny issue is going to change GW's mind about anything at all just does not track.

EDIT: For the record, jojo's reply was posted while I was typing this.

The real problem is the studio doing a PDF 'when they get around to it'.

If the rules went into a publication, they have the PDF, because it was in the publication. Even if they only need a specific page, there's an option to do literally that in Acrobat. I do it at work all the time. Or convert it to PDF - Adobe have plenty of tools to do this. I know, because I use them at work all the time.

So basically, there's no reason to not releas the PDF with the WD issue, or even a month later to encourage sales of WD, other than sheer lazyness.

yeah,
I concur
The Sisters rules made people happy.
The Ork flier rules made people happy.
The extra daemon update made people happy.

Why stop that?

Panic...

Maybe GW are planning on putting cards with the unit entry in to the boxes of the models themselves, like the interrogator chaplain in the DV box, means you have to buy the model to know if its any good on release

This reminds me of the employees that, when you attempt to introduce a new work flow, try it for 24 hours then declare it's unworkable.

One thing White Dwarf has done incredibly well is to incredibly indecisive. How can they possibly quantify what is/is not working when they change policy so frequently (and seemingly on a whim)?

 Mantle wrote:
Maybe GW are planning on putting cards with the unit entry in to the boxes of the models themselves, like the interrogator chaplain in the DV box, means you have to buy the model to know if its any good on release

Well, there is that other game that has made this method incredibly successful. What was it? I can't quite place the name. W... Wa...

feth it.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Mantle wrote:
Maybe GW are planning on putting cards with the unit entry in to the boxes of the models themselves, like the interrogator chaplain in the DV box, means you have to buy the model to know if its any good on release

Well, there is that other game that has made this method incredibly successful. What was it? I can't quite place the name. W... Wa...

feth it.

Other games? What are you talking about? The only games in The Hobby are Lord of the Rings, Warhammer, and Warhammer 40k. Everyone knows that

"The Hobby" ...is there a thread to bash that term?!

I don't know if there's one active now, but there have been about fourteen squintillion threads about it in the past, with some people ludicrously defending the concept as if it there really is a "GW Hobby" that is separate and distinct from the wargaming hobby..... but that's off topic for this thread, isn't it?

On topic: I'm still fairly certain that GW doesn't really know what it's doing, in general, despite what others may claim.

its clear GW doesn't know what its doing

and I am sure GW thinks its the only wargaming hobby as it had the gonads to display on their front page, for awhile, that they make the best miniatures in the world

 Vaktathi wrote:

It's appears to be an issue of GW simply recording the tone of the feedback rather than the actual informational content of the feedback.

Sounds a lot like my ex-wife.

 Breotan wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:
As I feared, the strict no-content-policy of the current WD team continues. If this is true (and I fear it is), this will also put the flyer update and future new model before Codex rumours to rest. Is there any reason to read a WD two weeks after release anymore?

I think the real question is...is there a reason to read WD at all anymore?

I mean, pictures can be seen anywhere, and it's not like the rest of the content is exactly worth paying for.

You people actually bought that line about bringing actual hobby "content" to their monthly catalogue? Ahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!

I feel really bad for the people who took GW at their word that the new WD would be better and have rules content, and bought subscriptions.

Welcome to the Games Workshop Hobby indeed.

 pretre wrote:
Hmm. On one hand, Darnok has an okay record and got the new WD changes right the first time. On the other hand, he was all in on the 'Pancake' edition.

I heard pancake was real, it was a "wishlist" edition before the scaled back the changes, in order to make them less drastic

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Best part of this thread......." 7.) If you gather 250 consecutive issues of White Dwarf, and burn them atop a pyre of Citradel spray guns, legend has it Gwar will appear and answer a single rules-related question."

We are insanely against piracy here at Dakka as a matter of policy. I find it extremely sad and ironic that GW itself encourages it by leaving a lot of customers with no other option if they miss certain issues or don't have an iPad. Come on.

Just release bloody pdf's and support the consumer for the love of pete... only people who are buying or interested in buying care, why put obstacles to purchasing your own stuff in place? This really irked me about the SOB and Flyer rules. It was fantastic that they did this in WD, I think most would say it was a step in the right direction.

The proper follow up would have been to put a pdf out 3 - 4 months later.

The absolute worst follow up is to discontinue the positively received action, and then compound it with additional new negative actions in just removing all real content out of the magazine.

We went from promises of content and a step away from being just a catalogue for 10 bucks to even more of a catalogue than ever before if this is actually true.

The worst part of all this is that many people will read comments like this and call internet whining or entitlement or 'What, GW is not allowed to make money?' comments... never realizing that most of us are pissed because we wanted them to succeed and by their own definition when they relaunched, they appear to have failed. A lot of people say Dakka is full of haters... although there are plenty of those running around, I usually find Dakka is full of a lot of people who are pissed because they care about GW and how they don't live up to their legacy or potential at times in certain ways. No one is going to say the models aren't better and better every year I think. But also, no one is going to say WD is better than it was 15 years ago either.

I just love it how they've added 30 or so pages to the new WD, but somehow managed to make 10 new product descriptions last for 50 pages of GW people licking them with their words.

yeah if GW got its act together and, tried, even a little, I'd actually have incentive to buy new, get white dwarf and such and such
I wanted GW to succeed, I once liked the games and did buy new, but that age has long since passed and it is sad
I would return to playing and buying more frequently if they, gave some semblance of a crap about their game, the community and had more realistic prices (in that order)

 MajorTom11 wrote:
We are insanely against piracy here at Dakka as a matter of policy. I find it extremely sad and ironic that GW itself encourages it by leaving a lot of customers with no other option if they miss certain issues or don't have an iPad. Come on.

Just release bloody pdf's and support the consumer for the love of pete... only people who are buying or interested in buying care, why put obstacles to purchasing your own stuff in place? This really irked me about the SOB and Flyer rules. It was fantastic that they did this in WD, I think most would say it was a step in the right direction.

The proper follow up would have been to put a pdf out 3 - 4 months later.

The absolute worst follow up is to discontinue the positively received action, and then compound it with additional new negative actions in just removing all real content out of the magazine.

We went from promises of content and a step away from being just a catalogue for 10 bucks to even more of a catalogue than ever before if this is actually true.

The worst part of all this is that many people will read comments like this and call internet whining or entitlement or 'What, GW is not allowed to make money?' comments... never realizing that most of us are pissed because we wanted them to succeed and by their own definition when they relaunched, they appear to have failed. A lot of people say Dakka is full of haters... although there are plenty of those running around, I usually find Dakka is full of a lot of people who are pissed because they care about GW and how they don't live up to their legacy or potential at times in certain ways. No one is going to say the models aren't better and better every year I think. But also, no one is going to say WD is better than it was 15 years ago either.

Exalted. Put it beter than i ever could have. Its something a lot of people dont seem to understand.

For example, I downloaded a pdf of the sisters of battle white dwarf release. I absolutely hated doing it, but what else could I do? I couldn't go to the store and buy it, couldn't go online and buy it, and didnt own an aple device to get it (truth be told, i'm not even sure if you can get it there). I'm not hunting down 2 seperate white dwarf issues on ebay to see if I want to even play it or not, so i downloaded it. I have lots of friends who are musicians. Piracy is a MAJOR issue for them, and I know how bad it can be firsthand.

But its kind of hard not to when GW doesnt give you an alternative. Were a sisters of battle codex released tomorrow, i'd probably buy it (even if it was a hardback *shudders*) just because I'd like to have a legal copy of the rules. But GW doesnt seem to be interested in doing that. Shame really.

So we WILL be getting PDF's of the Sisters of Battle WD codex?

"Once someone has time", and "an oversight by the design team"... yeah, not getting my hopes up here.

My main fear is that they'll start charging money for rules released for new models, i.e. new flyers, and only releasing them on I-pads.

cause everyone has an i-pad...

Honestly, I think we're close to seeing the end of White Dwarf. It might keep on as an electronic publication, with no need to keep copies "in stock." In its current incarnation, it has outlived its function as being anything more than a glossy, hundred page advertisement. It's like an infomercial that you can read on the john.

GW doesn't give 2 gaks about complaints. There was another reason for this.

 Harriticus wrote:
GW doesn't give 2 gaks about complaints. There was another reason for this.

Like they weren't selling as many white dwarf's with the rules as they thought they would...

Yeah, I'll be giving WD a miss next month and from then on. I was enticed back by the relaunch and the first one was better [in camparison to the depths plumbed by the previous editor] but has been steadily downhill from there. Even the posters, which might make it almost worth the money for people like me who like to stick Warhammer stuff all over their walls, are just catalogues in poster form.

There's no proper army reports, tournament reviews, army showcases [from real people], modelling insight, short stories, support for specialist games. Remove rules content and what's left?

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Yeah, I'll be giving WD a miss next month and from then on. I was enticed back by the relaunch and the first one was better [in camparison to the depths plumbed by the previous editor] but has been steadily downhill from there. Even the posters, which might make it almost worth the money for people like me who like to stick Warhammer stuff all over their walls, are just catalogues in poster form.

There's no proper army reports, tournament reviews, army showcases [from real people], modelling insight, short stories, support for specialist games. Remove rules content and what's left?

The world's most expensive kindling?

Griever wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Yeah, I'll be giving WD a miss next month and from then on. I was enticed back by the relaunch and the first one was better [in comparison to the depths plumbed by the previous editor] but has been steadily downhill from there. Even the posters, which might make it almost worth the money for people like me who like to stick Warhammer stuff all over their walls, are just catalogues in poster form.

There's no proper army reports, tournament reviews, army showcases [from real people], modelling insight, short stories, support for specialist games. Remove rules content and what's left?

The world's most expensive kindling?

Heh, Wouldn't surprise me if they use a type of paper that doesn't burn very well, just to make sure that you can't even use it for that.

I'm pretty much done with WD now myself. I wanted it to be good again, I really did, but I agree with a previous comment - the kindest thing for it now would be a metaphorical bullet to the head.

I'll be honest, for the last few months I've been buying a back issue of WD from my childhood on ebay once a month. I recently got the issue where they released third edition 40K. It's amazing after the current WD, there's boxouts on lots of the rule changes, a bit about the FOC, loads of info. You've got the new plastic space marine kit, with pics of the sprues and suggestions for assembly and conversions.

I'm loving these old issues. I recently stopped my WD subscription, and unless things change drastically, it'll stay that way. The magazine used to be so good.

I'll admit I'm a sucker for the presentation and feel of the new magazine, but the lack of content just kills it. It really is just a glorified catalogue. Ironic, then, that it's the 'golden era' of WD which had on the cover of each issue "Games Workshop's monthly catalogue" (or something along those lines) right there in bold text.

Hell, remember when you were encouraged to make walls and fences using things from the garden? :p

So... 5 or 10 bucks/ GBP's for back issues of White Dwarf?

How much is a good price that is reasonable?

I'm generally happy to pay about £3-5 for an issue. To be honest, it can't be any worse value than what we're getting now.

Here i thought i was the only one thinking wd has slid down a steep slope.

The relaunch one seemed sweet compared to the old ones, but a few issues along the battle reports have all the new stuff in em. It gives no feel for the potential of what it can do.
I am not gifted or anything but next wd battle report forcast says all the new stuff on the table with a mess of an army list woow.
if i were to want that i would have a game against a spoiled rich 8yr old that has all the models.
There is nothing worth reading in there its bland and
watery. Its missing the meat and potatoes. There is nothing to motivate you in there other than buy our new models. nothing to get you thinking or building cool stuff.

If the wd is a catalog then its pretty bad at doing even that. I mean i get those sears catalogs every now and then and those suckers are 200+ pages but dosnt cost me a dime. (Plus it has the bra section ).

The white dwarf is too expensive as a catalog and if its trying to be one i suggest gw starts selling bra's that's my two cents.
Also i am cowpow i am now 3 months wd free and still going strong

 Grot 6 wrote:
So... 5 or 10 bucks/ GBP's for back issues of White Dwarf?

How much is a good price that is reasonable?

Even full price is better than we can get now.
But, 2/3 of full price would be enough for me to order the odd copy now and then.

The issue is people complain about GW but still support them in droves by buying stuff. The only way GW will change is for people to walk away. Pirating doesn't prove to them their model,is bad, you still buy the models, and they still make a product you are consuming even illegally.

If a company makes it hard or impossible to purchase their product you simply do without and walk away. Don't consume it. Don't buy the rules, don't use the rules, don't buy the models, just walk away. Give your money to someone who operates In a way to get your business. Don't break the law and your integrity to fall over yourself to continue giving Gw your money, especially when they don't care about you.

Continuing to buy the plastic crack and complain about it doesn't encourage change... And Gw doesn't sell stock with every model, so owning their product gives you zero ownership in the company as much as customers seem to feel like they always deserve to be catered to.

All the rules released in updates may have made people happy. Having to pay for arguments sake a fiver to get them however along with something they deliberately print on glossy paper because it hurts to use it as toilet paper however is the drawback.

All they need to do for a HUGE positive shift towards them would be PDF each one, stick em on the website free, sell their shiny new models.

They won;t though.

And Ouze won the thread!

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Because their attempt at bringing back content was awful. It was an incredibly stupid idea to release new rules in a magazine that was immediately sold out and unavailable and then ignore the problem indefinitely by refusing to release a pdf version (even as a paid download) for the people who didn't buy the relevant WD as soon as it was released. And of course these aren't trivial things like new campaign missions (which would be content, but not essential), they're core units for one of the big new mechanics in 6th (flyers) or an update that instantly created a dominating tournament list (demons). Both of these are releases that you have to have if you want to play the game, and the difficulty in getting them is a nice clear statement saying "pirate our rules, don't buy the magazine".

This.

PP get round the problem of having a theme list annual roundup in certain issues of No Quarter, with every theme list from the past 12 months put in a single issue in case you missed it in the first place. They could put out PDFs, but still; they actually address the problem such things are an essential part of the game and if your players have incomplete rules they're gonna be pissed.

GW does its usual MO of sticking its head in the sand and using a bazooka to swat a fly.

EDIT: On a side note; has anyone actually witnessed the conversation between irritated parent with little Timmy in tow and GW staff member about how exactly to get the rules for his new shiny Chibi flyer? I'm picturing the results being hilarious.

 Bewareofthephil wrote:
I'll be honest, for the last few months I've been buying a back issue of WD from my childhood on ebay once a month.

You know, that's a really nice idea! Might copy that one, there are plenty of issues I missed.

An alternative is 'Ravage' magazine, which I think is a wonderful new alternative, and in some ways reminiscent of what WD used to be many years ago.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Because their attempt at bringing back content was awful. It was an incredibly stupid idea to release new rules in a magazine that was immediately sold out and unavailable and then ignore the problem indefinitely by refusing to release a pdf version (even as a paid download) for the people who didn't buy the relevant WD as soon as it was released. And of course these aren't trivial things like new campaign missions (which would be content, but not essential), they're core units for one of the big new mechanics in 6th (flyers) or an update that instantly created a dominating tournament list (demons). Both of these are releases that you have to have if you want to play the game, and the difficulty in getting them is a nice clear statement saying "pirate our rules, don't buy the magazine".

This.

PP get round the problem of having a theme list annual roundup in certain issues of No Quarter, with every theme list from the past 12 months put in a single issue in case you missed it in the first place. They could put out PDFs, but still; they actually address the problem such things are an essential part of the game and if your players have incomplete rules they're gonna be pissed.

GW does its usual MO of sticking its head in the sand and using a bazooka to swat a fly.

EDIT: On a side note; has anyone actually witnessed the conversation between irritated parent with little Timmy in tow and GW staff member about how exactly to get the rules for his new shiny Chibi flyer? I'm picturing the results being hilarious.

IIRC all the new NQ Theme Lists are also added to Warroom automatically and are available for perusal if you've purchased the deck that includes the 'Caster that runs the Theme List.

I'm probably in a minority, but I don't really want 'official' rules published outside of the codex. That's my reference tool, and I want it to be complete.

White Dwarf should be a vehicle for house-rules type articules. The Empire Knightly Orders article was an excellent example of this, as were the space marine cursed foundings and deathwatch articles. They were fun ways to play an army slightly differently, which may or may not be balanced but doesn't matter too much as its a house-rule, and provide a context for exploring some background narrative.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
cause everyone has an i-pad...

Didn't you get the memo?

The surprise release this year is a Limited Edition GW branded iPad.

Features include:

Choice of Space Marine Chapter cover - All Chapters available but already sold out so default skin will be Ultramarines.
Automatic Inventory and Debit Software - Anytime there is a GW price increase, it will automatically go into your bank account and remove the difference from last year on anything you own.
Internet Filtering System - Blocks all access to non-GW related gaming sites including 3rd party bits, online hobby stores, EBay, and various forums.
GW SpellCheck - It works like normal Spellcheck, only in reverse, and actually creates misspelled words and phrases to match the hard copy rulebooks to make them look correct.
Errata Updater - Automatically downloads most current Errata release and deletes previous Errata regadless of the fact they may not contain the same information or questions.
GW Maps - GPS, Maps, and Locater will include only the location, distance, and direction to the nearest GW 1 man Store.

I could go on, but I don't want to reveal too much yet.

[Edit] I forgot the most important details, it's said to cost twice as much and be made out of Finecast to decrease weight and increase durability. They are also all autographed by Matt Ward.

I liked the cursed foundings, which WD was that in

 -Loki- wrote:

 Mantle wrote:
Maybe GW are planning on putting cards with the unit entry in to the boxes of the models themselves, like the interrogator chaplain in the DV box, means you have to buy the model to know if its any good on release

Well, there is that other game that has made this method incredibly successful. What was it? I can't quite place the name. W... Wa...

I can help you with that: Most of them.

It would be an easy way to upgrade older codexes, without printing new books.
Just make new units/characters/vehicles for them with rules included on the box/blister..

Ive got nothing but contempt for the small minority of cry babies that come on this forum and endlessly complain about everything GW, it reminds me of mewling children that are upset because they cant have all the toy they want.

That said, after just getting over a 12 month sub my missus bought me, I can heartily say that I have as much contempt for anyone that can claim with a straight face WD is actually worth reading.

The magazine is fething pump. Id rather spend 10 minutes browsing dakka than looking at the fething thing. I probably wouldn't bother with it if it was 99p an issue!

 AduroT wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

Because their attempt at bringing back content was awful. It was an incredibly stupid idea to release new rules in a magazine that was immediately sold out and unavailable and then ignore the problem indefinitely by refusing to release a pdf version (even as a paid download) for the people who didn't buy the relevant WD as soon as it was released. And of course these aren't trivial things like new campaign missions (which would be content, but not essential), they're core units for one of the big new mechanics in 6th (flyers) or an update that instantly created a dominating tournament list (demons). Both of these are releases that you have to have if you want to play the game, and the difficulty in getting them is a nice clear statement saying "pirate our rules, don't buy the magazine".

This.

PP get round the problem of having a theme list annual roundup in certain issues of No Quarter, with every theme list from the past 12 months put in a single issue in case you missed it in the first place. They could put out PDFs, but still; they actually address the problem such things are an essential part of the game and if your players have incomplete rules they're gonna be pissed.

GW does its usual MO of sticking its head in the sand and using a bazooka to swat a fly.

EDIT: On a side note; has anyone actually witnessed the conversation between irritated parent with little Timmy in tow and GW staff member about how exactly to get the rules for his new shiny Chibi flyer? I'm picturing the results being hilarious.

IIRC all the new NQ Theme Lists are also added to Warroom automatically and are available for perusal if you've purchased the deck that includes the 'Caster that runs the Theme List.

That too (forgot that one! ). I haven't really got into War room yet (not got the cash, because I know I WILL want every deck), but I mean with NQ40 (IIRC) where they did a roundup of all of the theme lists published in NQ that year. No idea if they're going to do it this year with the advent of War room. It'll be interesting to see anyway. Esp. with how it compares to GW's actions on a similar thing that's being discussed in this very thread.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
We are insanely against piracy here at Dakka as a matter of policy. I find it extremely sad and ironic that GW itself encourages it by leaving a lot of customers with no other option if they miss certain issues or don't have an iPad. Come on.

Just release bloody pdf's and support the consumer for the love of pete... only people who are buying or interested in buying care, why put obstacles to purchasing your own stuff in place? This really irked me about the SOB and Flyer rules. It was fantastic that they did this in WD, I think most would say it was a step in the right direction.

The proper follow up would have been to put a pdf out 3 - 4 months later.

The absolute worst follow up is to discontinue the positively received action, and then compound it with additional new negative actions in just removing all real content out of the magazine.

We went from promises of content and a step away from being just a catalogue for 10 bucks to even more of a catalogue than ever before if this is actually true.

The worst part of all this is that many people will read comments like this and call internet whining or entitlement or 'What, GW is not allowed to make money?' comments... never realizing that most of us are pissed because we wanted them to succeed and by their own definition when they relaunched, they appear to have failed. A lot of people say Dakka is full of haters... although there are plenty of those running around, I usually find Dakka is full of a lot of people who are pissed because they care about GW and how they don't live up to their legacy or potential at times in certain ways. No one is going to say the models aren't better and better every year I think. But also, no one is going to say WD is better than it was 15 years ago either.

Exalted. Put it beter than i ever could have. Its something a lot of people dont seem to understand.

For example, I downloaded a pdf of the sisters of battle white dwarf release. I absolutely hated doing it, but what else could I do? I couldn't go to the store and buy it, couldn't go online and buy it, and didnt own an aple device to get it (truth be told, i'm not even sure if you can get it there). I'm not hunting down 2 seperate white dwarf issues on ebay to see if I want to even play it or not, so i downloaded it. I have lots of friends who are musicians. Piracy is a MAJOR issue for them, and I know how bad it can be firsthand.

But its kind of hard not to when GW doesnt give you an alternative. Were a sisters of battle codex released tomorrow, i'd probably buy it (even if it was a hardback *shudders*) just because I'd like to have a legal copy of the rules. But GW doesnt seem to be interested in doing that. Shame really.

I helped somebody out with getting the daemon update, and I'll do it again. I'll also do it for the flier issue. Why? Not because I'm a jerk, but because I'm helping out those that GW punished.

At this point, by the time I get around to modeling and painting my Storm Talon, there'll be a new codex including those rules, but I was a little miffed to see that the rules were in a WD I could not get a hold of. I found it online of course, but I don't like doing things in that fashion.

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

You're not really being fair. People never complained about content being in WD. We complained when said content was not added to GW's website in the form of a PDF some time after being published in WD, like they had always done in the past.

 helium42 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

You're not really being fair. People never complained about content being in WD. We complained when said content was not added to GW's website in the form of a PDF some time after being published in WD, like they had always done in the past.

I agree. The problem was WD exclusive rules that didn't show up anywhere else.

As an occasional player that sometimes takes multi-month breaks, I really don't like coming back to find that there are new rules that I can't legally get.

 Rented Tritium wrote:

 helium42 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

You're not really being fair. People never complained about content being in WD. We complained when said content was not added to GW's website in the form of a PDF some time after being published in WD, like they had always done in the past.

I agree. The problem was WD exclusive rules that didn't show up anywhere else.

As an occasional player that sometimes takes multi-month breaks, I really don't like coming back to find that there are new rules that I can't legally get.

It also ignores GW's core business - newbies.

If someone discovers GW today and decides it would be great to have a Sister's of Battle army - they are SOL. If they want to add fliers to their army or use one of the other WD released sets of rules they either need an iPad and pay the $6 for the particular flyer update or hope that you can find a hard copy of the magazine.

Not putting the rules up on their website is just dumb. Taking actual useful information out of White Dwarf would be equally dumb though...but I have come to expect nothing less.

 Rented Tritium wrote:

 helium42 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

You're not really being fair. People never complained about content being in WD. We complained when said content was not added to GW's website in the form of a PDF some time after being published in WD, like they had always done in the past.

I agree. The problem was WD exclusive rules that didn't show up anywhere else.

As an occasional player that sometimes takes multi-month breaks, I really don't like coming back to find that there are new rules that I can't legally get.

I am the same way.

This rumor seems unlikely to me. As people have said, it would mean scrapping all plans for spot releases of new units. And I'm pretty sure those releases are planned out well ahead of time. So even if they do make this change, it would take a while - they'd still want to release whatever new stuff is in the pipeline.

As far as the rest, I agree with everyone. It is ridiculous that GW does not make simple rule update PDFs available on their website, say, two months or three months after the initial release.

angryboy2k wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

It's appears to be an issue of GW simply recording the tone of the feedback rather than the actual informational content of the feedback.

Sounds a lot like my ex-wife.

High five for this guy, that's the type of bitterness I can get behind.

Rainbow Dash wrote:I liked the cursed foundings, which WD was that in

I would call the OCtober WD the cursed founding

helium42 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
For a year they tried to bring content back to WD.
Then people complained about splash release Codices and flyer rules.
Then GW said: "Okay, we understood: No more content."

You're not really being fair. People never complained about content being in WD. We complained when said content was not added to GW's website in the form of a PDF some time after being published in WD, like they had always done in the past.

As I said the first time, I was misunderstood: That was sarcastic and I agree with you on the pdf thing like most people on Dakka would.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
We are insanely against piracy here at Dakka as a matter of policy. I find it extremely sad and ironic that GW itself encourages it by leaving a lot of customers with no other option if they miss certain issues or don't have an iPad. Come on.

Just release bloody pdf's and support the consumer for the love of pete... only people who are buying or interested in buying care, why put obstacles to purchasing your own stuff in place? This really irked me about the SOB and Flyer rules. It was fantastic that they did this in WD, I think most would say it was a step in the right direction.

The proper follow up would have been to put a pdf out 3 - 4 months later.

The absolute worst follow up is to discontinue the positively received action, and then compound it with additional new negative actions in just removing all real content out of the magazine.

We went from promises of content and a step away from being just a catalogue for 10 bucks to even more of a catalogue than ever before if this is actually true.

The worst part of all this is that many people will read comments like this and call internet whining or entitlement or 'What, GW is not allowed to make money?' comments... never realizing that most of us are pissed because we wanted them to succeed and by their own definition when they relaunched, they appear to have failed. A lot of people say Dakka is full of haters... although there are plenty of those running around, I usually find Dakka is full of a lot of people who are pissed because they care about GW and how they don't live up to their legacy or potential at times in certain ways. No one is going to say the models aren't better and better every year I think. But also, no one is going to say WD is better than it was 15 years ago either.

You should post this up on GW Facebook Page on the off chance some one at WD will read it before the GW Mods yank it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:

75hastings69 wrote:Lol, how have they even managed to remove any content from WD? Lol, GW make me smile I swear its like they're deliberately trying to do bad things!

I'm not sure that Hastings is making any confirmations. Sounds like he is just reiterating his disgust with GW...again .

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, two constants: people are never happy with what GW gives them and GW never does it quite right.

I've seen people on this forum complaining about GW plastic glue. They were mad that it was too strong. GW really can't win here.

 undertow wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, two constants: people are never happy with what GW gives them and GW never does it quite right.

I've seen people on this forum complaining about GW plastic glue. They were mad that it was too strong. GW really can't win here.

You may be misunderstanding me here. I am agreeing with the fact that people will complain about anything but I'm also saying that GW makes a lot of mistakes.

 pretre wrote:
You may be misunderstanding me here. I am agreeing with the fact that people will complain about anything but I'm also saying that GW makes a lot of mistakes.

Not sure how many times you have to get a fly in your soup before you simply eat at a different restaurant. People complain that they want a cleaner restaurant, but continue to come there and pay for soup. We all know the restaurant should be cleaner, but why should they when they still make money and have customers?

Complaining does nothing. Stopping the flow of money from your wallet to their pocket is the only way. You actually have to take your business elsewhere and 'go without' no matter how much you want their product.

We can eat around the flies!

Although it's getting to the stage where there is a greater fly to soup ratio than even the most hardened fanboy could stomach.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Although it's getting to the stage where there is a greater fly to soup ratio than even the most hardened fanboy could stomach.

If you're talking WD, yeah, I agree. GW? Nah, there's plenty of soup.

 Medium of Death wrote:
We can eat around the flies!

Although it's getting to the stage where there is a greater fly to soup ratio than even the most hardened fanboy could stomach.

They will sell you a fly strainer for your soup.

But this also comes down to, they make a unit with rules only in WD... Then if the fact the units are unusable without rules, if you pirate the rules and buy 3 dakkajets, GW is still happy. They sold out their WD, they sold the models, they sold digital rules, they are insulated from the complains.

If people said 'I can't get the rules? I will stick to my principals and not buy the model' and sales for new WD flyers flopped, then there is a clear message that more accessible rules are needed to promote sales.

If it doesn't hurt, they won't learn nothin! Which is why the plastic-crack addicted complainers are being ignored as GW still got their money.

I think the problem is that people assume that pain will make them learn something. I don't think it ever has and I don't think it will anytime soon. They are thick.

The fact is that GW gets a lot of complaints, some rational and some not so much. For the most part the only thing that matters and garners a response when noticeable are changes in sales. If something adversely affects sales and profits they make a change, other less reliable indicators of customer satisfaction levels are largely ignored.

I understand that 'hit them in the pocketbook' is the conventional wisdom, but do we have any anecdotal evidence that that has ever worked?

 pretre wrote:
I understand that 'hit them in the pocketbook' is the conventional wisdom, but do we have any anecdotal evidence that that has ever worked?

When the Warhammer Fortress introduced many years ago in the mid-1990s did not sell virtually at all at $110 US they dropped the price to $80 after 2 years. They also sold some of them at half price at a store sale (I bought one for $40!) to get the stock down back in the glory days when they had sales.

A friend of mine worked at GW from roughly 1993 to 2004. He used to sit in on some of the meetings that determined pricing for new products here in the US. He has said the only thing that generally factored into making changes in price was sales. General complaints without sales figures to support them were largely disregarded.

Of course, GW is a very different company now than it was even 8 or 10 years ago. It's run by different people and with quite different philosophies than it was even less than that ago. Until 2003 they had discount sales events. Until 2 or 3 years ago they used to have prize support in their stores, raffles and other giveaways. These days all of those things are gone and the cost cutting is draconian, employee cutting is harsh, and store closures if profits do not continue to rise are common. It's a whole different company under the current management.

 pretre wrote:
I understand that 'hit them in the pocketbook' is the conventional wisdom, but do we have any anecdotal evidence that that has ever worked?

There doesn't need to be any evidence, it will work. When a company is as apparently closed off to feedback as they appear to be, it is categorically the only method that the consumer can employ.

When the fuel prices began to spiral, boycotts of fuel stations were organised here in the UK. Now in financial terms it probably made little impact, but it did send the message that consumers weren't happy.

Unfortunately, the behaviour of your average GW consumer does seem to show some unfortunate parallels with addictive behaviour, and as such I doubt a protest on sufficient scale could ever be sustained.

Perhaps a worldwide 24 hour boycott could send the necessary message, without forcing people to go cold turkey on their plasticrack, but I would be pessimistic about getting enough people to participate to make a difference.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Who is it that is complaining that they are actually listening to?

This is Games Workshop, a company for which, if you look, you can find someone who is complaining about any given thing they do. This complaining seemingly always goes unheeded.

And yet they choose to address this issue?

Probably has something to do with all the negative reviews they are getting in the apple book store:

"I find it extremely insulting that on top of the exorbitant price of the model, I have to pay this amount for what is essentially a set of weapon stats lines and a couple 2sentence paragraphs of special rules, If I REALLY wanted all that fluff I would buy the past issue of WD. Thanks for the blatant cash grab GW!! As always you never fail to disapoint in that area"

Im glad someone went through and got the GW employee reviews taken down, those were so transparent it hurt.

Besides that, its probably because the digital sales is one of the biggest sore spots for customers right now, there is so much negativity towards the digital stuff I'm not surprised why GW wants to stop bringing attention to it. Like how GW thinks that its perfectly reasonable for me to go get a $700 ipad, then pay $5.99 for the flyer rules, just so I have access to the dakkajet rules. I bet that goes really well when little timmy explains that to his mom when he wants to his DakkaJet.

BrassScorpion wrote: When the Warhammer Fortress introduced many years ago in the mid-1990s did not sell virtually at all at $110 US they dropped the price to $80 after 2 years. They also sold some of them at half price at a store sale (I bought one for $40!) to get the stock down back in the glory days when they had sales.

True. Come to think of it, I believe Dreadfleet got recalled for not selling well, right?

There doesn't need to be any evidence, it will work. When a company is as apparently closed off to feedback as they appear to be, it is categorically the only method that the consumer can employ.

When the fuel prices began to spiral, boycotts of fuel stations were organised here in the UK. Now in financial terms it probably made little impact, but it did send the message that consumers weren't happy.

Okay, so there doesn't need to be evidence and you give an example where it didn't work...

Perhaps a worldwide 24 hour boycott could send the necessary message, without forcing people to go cold turkey on their plasticrack, but I would be pessimistic about getting enough people to participate to make a difference.

If you could get everyone in the world to boycott them for 24 hours, it no doubt would work. Of course, that is an unrealistic goal.

 azreal13 wrote:


Perhaps a worldwide 24 hour boycott could send the necessary message, without forcing people to go cold turkey on their plasticrack, but I would be pessimistic about getting enough people to participate to make a difference.

Boycotts are bs. Especially in GW's market where they expect customers to go long periods of time between purchasing. I collect orks so unless GW releases an ORK model, I really have nothing to buy. My lack of buying may not actually represent *anything* wrong to them. If they release new stuff for my army, it will be spending spree.

Such a 24 hour boycott does nothing. Even a month boycot does nothing,e specially since people splurge and fast already with the way they purchase models.

If someone is dissatisfied the only way to be 'heard' is to quit and go away pretty much forever and when they release that new model you want, not to buy it, not to buy it second hand, not to buy it period. Even second hand promotes sales because people buy first hand knowing they can sell it second hand. if the second hand market is gone, the first hand market begins to become impacted. If I can't sell my models to buy new stuff, then the new releases go unbought.

And this all assumes that the people complaining make up enough of a customer base to actually matter. (which they pretty much don't universally in any fandom where adults buy children's toys)

People keep buying, they have no reason to change. Complaining while forking over money does nothing.

@nkelsch: Yeah, most people boycott until their army book gets a new release. lol

There doesn't need to be any evidence, it will work. When a company is as apparently closed off to feedback as they appear to be, it is categorically the only method that the consumer can employ.

When the fuel prices began to spiral, boycotts of fuel stations were organised here in the UK. Now in financial terms it probably made little impact, but it did send the message that consumers weren't happy.

Okay, so there doesn't need to be evidence and you give an example where it didn't work...

Actually didn't finish my thought there.

It did work, in the short term the government modified fuel duty rises, the supermarkets started using it as a competitive lever against each other and fuel prices did go down.

Long term it had less of an impact, but it did work to a degree, and it certainly very successfully communicated consumer dissatisfaction to the relevant organisations.

I suspect that would be the best outcome of any protest against GW though, short term placation followed by long term no difference at all.

 pretre wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote: When the Warhammer Fortress introduced many years ago in the mid-1990s did not sell virtually at all at $110 US they dropped the price to $80 after 2 years. They also sold some of them at half price at a store sale (I bought one for $40!) to get the stock down back in the glory days when they had sales.

True. Come to think of it, I believe Dreadfleet got recalled for not selling well, right?

Yup, I was in GW when they got that email, apparently having more then 2 out showed it wasnt selling and negatively impacted the company and that its removal would not to be spoken of. As far as I know they were told to just throw them in a dumpster far away from the store.

Hmm. So that actually proves that they can be convinced of things by lack of sales....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They won't take the right action, but...

 pretre wrote:
Hmm. So that actually proves that they can be convinced of things by lack of sales....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They won't take the right action, but...

They may have been convinced of something, but was it the message to consumer wanted to send

this specialist game is no fun &/or too expensive, make something better and/or cheaper

What GW heard was

We hate ALL the specialist games equally, stop making or supporting them and do your best to kick them out of your stores

so be carefull what message you try to send, GW may hear something different

My view of GW these days?

We don't get what we want. We get what we will put up with.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Like how GW thinks that its perfectly reasonable for me to go get a $700 ipad, then pay $5.99 for the flyer rules, just so I have access to the dakkajet rules. I bet that goes really well when little timmy explains that to his mom when he wants to his DakkaJet.

GW doesn't expect you to purchase an iPad just to get the rules for the DakkaJet, the digital products are there for people that already have an iPad. I like how you chose one of the highest prices possible for an iPad to illustrate your point. They can be found much cheaper than that, especially if you go with the previous model.

 undertow wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Like how GW thinks that its perfectly reasonable for me to go get a $700 ipad, then pay $5.99 for the flyer rules, just so I have access to the dakkajet rules. I bet that goes really well when little timmy explains that to his mom when he wants to his DakkaJet.

GW doesn't expect you to purchase an iPad just to get the rules for the DakkaJet, the digital products are there for people that already have an iPad. I like how you chose one of the highest prices possible for an iPad to illustrate your point. They can be found much cheaper than that, especially if you go with the previous model.

What's your solution for anyone who would like to field a Dakkajet and can't afford/does not wish to buy any sort of ipad? Or merely doesn't want yet another thing to have to cart with them to their club/shop?

Given how much they charge for Sisters of Battle models, it's the least they could do to make the rules freely available.

 azreal13 wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Like how GW thinks that its perfectly reasonable for me to go get a $700 ipad, then pay $5.99 for the flyer rules, just so I have access to the dakkajet rules. I bet that goes really well when little timmy explains that to his mom when he wants to his DakkaJet.

GW doesn't expect you to purchase an iPad just to get the rules for the DakkaJet, the digital products are there for people that already have an iPad. I like how you chose one of the highest prices possible for an iPad to illustrate your point. They can be found much cheaper than that, especially if you go with the previous model.

What's your solution for anyone who would like to field a Dakkajet and can't afford/does not wish to buy any sort of ipad? Or merely doesn't want yet another thing to have to cart with them to their club/shop?

Don't buy a Dakkajet to show your dissatisfaction with the way they released the Dakkajet and its rules. Only lack of sales will change behavior. Buying 3 Dakkajets, crying about the rules not being available does nothing to make GW change as they got your money.

If SOB and WD flyers sales were non-existent, I suspect a PDF would appear ont he website really quick with probably 10 days of hobby pages highlighting the kits.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Hmm. So that actually proves that they can be convinced of things by lack of sales....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They won't take the right action, but...

They may have been convinced of something, but was it the message to consumer wanted to send

this specialist game is no fun &/or too expensive, make something better and/or cheaper

What GW heard was

We hate ALL the specialist games equally, stop making or supporting them and do your best to kick them out of your stores

so be carefull what message you try to send, GW may hear something different

I heard some years ago, from a source I absolutely believe, that at one point all of the Specialist Games were going to be withdrawn, not only from the shop floor, but from sale (rules, miniatures, everything) - completely!

Then Jervis Johnson stepped in and offered to take all of the games lines under his wing, organise them and keep them updated/maintained, along with his other duties at the company (he wasn't being paid extra for doing do). So, perhaps one of the biggest reasons he is a top bloke, and we should be thankful that at least one of the old guard has managed to stay within the company.

 undertow wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Like how GW thinks that its perfectly reasonable for me to go get a $700 ipad, then pay $5.99 for the flyer rules, just so I have access to the dakkajet rules. I bet that goes really well when little timmy explains that to his mom when he wants to his DakkaJet.

GW doesn't expect you to purchase an iPad just to get the rules for the DakkaJet, the digital products are there for people that already have an iPad. I like how you chose one of the highest prices possible for an iPad to illustrate your point. They can be found much cheaper than that, especially if you go with the previous model.

So I dont own that white dwarf with the dakkajet rules and you're telling me I should go hunt down a cheaper ipad? Thats GW logic right there. I want to buy and use the model, I already own the ork codex, but I need to pay $100+ for the privilege? Its not like they have a long standing history of putting out PDFs on their website for free, oh wait.

Oh and Im sorry, I'll fix my previous statement to "starting from" $329, like that makes it any better.

nkelsch wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Like how GW thinks that its perfectly reasonable for me to go get a $700 ipad, then pay $5.99 for the flyer rules, just so I have access to the dakkajet rules. I bet that goes really well when little timmy explains that to his mom when he wants to his DakkaJet.

GW doesn't expect you to purchase an iPad just to get the rules for the DakkaJet, the digital products are there for people that already have an iPad. I like how you chose one of the highest prices possible for an iPad to illustrate your point. They can be found much cheaper than that, especially if you go with the previous model.

What's your solution for anyone who would like to field a Dakkajet and can't afford/does not wish to buy any sort of ipad? Or merely doesn't want yet another thing to have to cart with them to their club/shop?

Don't buy a Dakkajet to show your dissatisfaction with the way they released the Dakkajet and its rules. Only lack of sales will change behavior. Buying 3 Dakkajets, crying about the rules not being available does nothing to make GW change as they got your money.

If SOB and WD flyers sales were non-existent, I suspect a PDF would appear ont he website really quick with probably 10 days of hobby pages highlighting the kits.

Ok, I'll take that as a viable solution for the informed, mature gamer. Even if I suspect that this plan won't survive first contact in the real world.

What about those that aren't so well informed? Those that innocently buy, or worse yet are actively sold, one of these kits unaware the rules are so hard to come by? I'm already aware of non-GK or BA players being told that it was 'fine' to buy a Stormraven for their Marine armies. So obviously GW staff aren't above selling inappropriate kits to people in some cases already.

 chris_valera wrote:


I feel really bad for the people who took GW at their word that the new WD would

I was one of those people. When WD come out on the iPad (yes, I own one) I bought that first issue. It looked good, seemed to have decent content and I figured it was worth the $60 (discounted) that I paid. The next 3 issues however were a steady downhill slope.

What I wanted out of WD:
Good painting articles with solid images.
Examples of game mechanics or proper unit usage through action reports.
Rule expansions, such as fighting on a code or hot world etc.

However, all of those failed to happen.

The "painting" articles show small thumbnail images that you can't zoom in on. Further, there are numerous places where the pictures simply don't show the paint that the step says is on there. I asked them about that once; their reply was that they couldn't see it either and that the pictures / step list was supplied by the "artist"... I guess the editor couldn't be bothered to look at what was submitted to see how jacked up it was.

I also asked why you couldn't zoom; their reply was that the magazine was already too large and they wanted to cut things out not add more to it. I suggested cutting parts of the product catalog (I can get that online) or even just dropping the LoTR info as nobody cared about that anyway. But that email was ignored <- That's not entirely true.... rather than ignoring it they did a full magazine devoted to the Hobbit.

It gets worse: the models for the "paint guides" in the latest mag looked like they were painted and photographed by amateurs. I know because I'm an amateur and I can paint better than most of those. I wouldn't bother calling myself an amateur photographer, I take maybe one picture a month... using my phone. But the lighting issues between steps just floor me. So, where is this vaunted 'Eavy Metal team at? Apparently they aren't painting models for the magazine and the pictures on the main site haven't exactly been updated in a long time, so... do they even have a 'Eavy Metal team?

The action reports have been featuring an increasing disregard for the rules. Rather than actually talking about what happened and why they've devolved into childish pregame posturing and post game celebratory videos. Which would be fine if they bothered to go into any level of detail on what happened. It's like they don't even want to bother trying to play the game. Beyond that they certainly don't even try to explain the purpose of the various units in the army. This area is a PERFECT opportunity to clear up known rule problems in a real setting and instead the opportunity is completely wasted.

The last thing I wanted was rule expansions. I didn't want to count on them to publish it in the codexes (yes, I bought the digital ones) in a reasonable time and I certainly didn't want to miss getting a paper copy. So, if they have no plans to put rules in WD anymore, then my last reason for reading WD evaporated.

nkelsch wrote:
The issue is people complain about GW but still support them in droves by buying stuff. The only way GW will change is for people to walk away. Pirating doesn't prove to them their model,is bad, you still buy the models, and they still make a product you are consuming even illegally.

If a company makes it hard or impossible to purchase their product you simply do without and walk away. Don't consume it. Don't buy the rules, don't use the rules, don't buy the models, just walk away. Give your money to someone who operates In a way to get your business. Don't break the law and your integrity to fall over yourself to continue giving Gw your money, especially when they don't care about you.

Continuing to buy the plastic crack and complain about it doesn't encourage change... And Gw doesn't sell stock with every model, so owning their product gives you zero ownership in the company as much as customers seem to feel like they always deserve to be catered to.

Here's the problem with the whole "hit em where it hurts" approach; They've been losing customers and sales volume for 10 years and their reaction to that is... *drum roll* Raise prices, cut support and dick people around

 Ravenous D wrote:


Here's the problem with the whole "hit em where it hurts" approach; They've been losing customers and sales volume for 10 years and their reaction to that is... *drum roll* Raise prices, cut support and dick people around

But if you don't buy and have moved on to something else... who cares?

If you continue to buy you are like a diabetic with a candy bar who would rather lose a foot than stop eating candybars with the demand that they make candy bars sugar free... The company won't listen while you still buy their product in droves... If the entire market was to make a shift for better foods and stop buying them, then maybe you would see a change in product line to accommodate the customer's needs.

Addicted people are incapable of 'not consuming' which is why they complain and are upset when their complaints are not heard because people assume their attitude is the defacto default majority and should be catered to. People are incapable of 'going without' in this community, so I expect zero change from complaints alone...

given all the extra functionality of an iPad, i don't understand this argument about only buying an iPad to read GW products...
you can play fun video games, surf the net, email, watch movies, listen to music, AND have cool interactive ebooks, along with a whole lot more...
the touch screen is awesome, an it's a lot more portable than a laptop, while being much bigger than a cellphone (better to see the pretty pictures)...
why do most posters seem to miss, or not care, that the iPad is so much more than an ereader???

i do think the change to publishing less copies of WD was a big miss...
it used to be you could get back issues, and every store had ample copies each month...
a monthly mag should not be limited edition, especially with rules in them...
that is definitely screwing the customers, and losing sales...

personally, i have enjoyed all four digital issue (i finally broke down and bought the Hobbit one)...
Blanchitsu has been great, going so far as to include works originally seen here on Dakka from a couple of our boys...
the Golden Demon showcase was awesome...
the Terrain board spotlights are beautiful...
Forgeworld previews are a treat...
The Rivals is a fun read...
the army spotlights are cool...
plus, it a few bucks cheaper than the print mag....

all in all, i feel like i get my $8 bucks worth...
especially since i can flip through anywhere, even without internet access, which is hit or miss in Mexico...

i'm all for them putting the PDF's on the website...
i just don't buy the "iPad just for GW product" argument...
GW products are just the icing on the cake when you have an iPad...

cheers
jah

No reason to buy WD now. Period.

nkelsch wrote:
Not sure how many times you have to get a fly in your soup before you simply eat at a different restaurant. People complain that they want a cleaner restaurant, but continue to come there and pay for soup. We all know the restaurant should be cleaner, but why should they when they still make money and have customers?

Complaining does nothing. Stopping the flow of money from your wallet to their pocket is the only way. You actually have to take your business elsewhere and 'go without' no matter how much you want their product.

This just sounds like a variation of the "If you don't like GW, stop playing 40K" fallacy.

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
I concur
The Sisters rules made people happy.
The Ork flier rules made people happy.
The extra daemon update made people happy.

Why stop that?

Panic...

To make people unhappy?

I also liked the WD rule updates.

I dare say that WD rules were the ONLY thing I liked about it.

pretre wrote:I understand that 'hit them in the pocketbook' is the conventional wisdom, but do we have any anecdotal evidence that that has ever worked?

The annual business reports show evidence of the contrary

nkelsch wrote:Boycotts are bs. Especially in GW's market where they expect customers to go long periods of time between purchasing. I collect orks so unless GW releases an ORK model, I really have nothing to buy. My lack of buying may not actually represent *anything* wrong to them. If they release new stuff for my army, it will be spending spree.

Such a 24 hour boycott does nothing. Even a month boycot does nothing,e specially since people splurge and fast already with the way they purchase models.

We will see how the ongoing Hobbit boycott is doing: Still hge piles of "limited edtion" boxes to sell.
And I will be surprised if the new Codex prices plus obscene Terminator/Speeder/Talon price increases will not have serious negative impact on sales and people starting an army.

 Kroothawk wrote:
And I will be surprised if the new Codex prices plus obscene Terminator/Speeder/Talon price increases will not have serious negative impact on sales and people starting an army.

I could not agree more. I was seriously considering starting DA as my second army, after two years with Orks. Then I saw the prices and just started laughing.
I'm 41, my career pays well, and I could afford it, but I'll be damned if I'm paying those prices.
I still have my gaming money in my pocket because a $75 flyer is far outside my value system.

 Kroothawk wrote:

We will see how the ongoing Hobbit boycott is doing: Still hge piles of "limited edtion" boxes to sell.
And I will be surprised if the new Codex prices plus obscene Terminator/Speeder/Talon price increases will not have serious negative impact on sales and people starting an army.

That isn't a Boycott... that is just a product no one wants for a price no one will pay, it is just an unwanted gakky product, like Dreadfleet. A Boycott implies that people really do want the product but are refusing to buy for some other issue.

Either way, lack of sales is what causes people to change decisions, like recalls, price drops or other restructuring. I hope they do drop all the prices on hobbit stuff, and if they do... guess what? It shows the only way GW responds is terrible sales numbers.

 Kroothawk wrote:
And I will be surprised if the new Codex prices plus obscene Terminator/Speeder/Talon price increases will not have serious negative impact on sales and people starting an army.

Against my better judgement, I'm starting an army again (DA too much of a lure), but does any sensible person really buy their stuff direct from GW anymore? Bought a tactical squad off ebay for £16.00 (including postage) and that was because I was being impatient i.e. could have got it for a lot less if I'd waited until ebay's weekly dump of GW stuff that occurs on Sunday evening.

The expensive part is the new flashy toys (even with online discounters, they're expensive), but more often than not, you find don't really want them (cos the model looks silly) or need them (cos their rules are rubbish). There tends to be an exception in each release (e.g. DW Knights), but you just have to be patient and wait a few months for them to appear on ebay.

IMHO, old school GW - small infantry based armies - is still pretty doable on a budget.

 Bewareofthephil wrote:
I'll be honest, for the last few months I've been buying a back issue of WD from my childhood on ebay once a month. I recently got the issue where they released third edition 40K. It's amazing after the current WD, there's boxouts on lots of the rule changes, a bit about the FOC, loads of info. You've got the new plastic space marine kit, with pics of the sprues and suggestions for assembly and conversions.

I'm loving these old issues. I recently stopped my WD subscription, and unless things change drastically, it'll stay that way. The magazine used to be so good.

I'll admit I'm a sucker for the presentation and feel of the new magazine, but the lack of content just kills it. It really is just a glorified catalogue. Ironic, then, that it's the 'golden era' of WD which had on the cover of each issue "Games Workshop's monthly catalogue" (or something along those lines) right there in bold text.

Hell, remember when you were encouraged to make walls and fences using things from the garden? :p

Exalted for truth.

 pretre wrote:
I understand that 'hit them in the pocketbook' is the conventional wisdom, but do we have any anecdotal evidence that that has ever worked?

Put it this way. Is there an OFFICIAL GW forum? No there is not. Why? Because GW doesn't like the negativity going on. So yes complaining does work. GW solution though? Ignore and make sure nobody reads it. So OFFICIAL forums are gone now.

So you can see how GW handles things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 undertow wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Like how GW thinks that its perfectly reasonable for me to go get a $700 ipad, then pay $5.99 for the flyer rules, just so I have access to the dakkajet rules. I bet that goes really well when little timmy explains that to his mom when he wants to his DakkaJet.

GW doesn't expect you to purchase an iPad just to get the rules for the DakkaJet, the digital products are there for people that already have an iPad. I like how you chose one of the highest prices possible for an iPad to illustrate your point. They can be found much cheaper than that, especially if you go with the previous model.

Go for a previous model? Are you serious? I am sure it was said that the previous models don't work and you NEED the CURRENT model for it to work.

nkelsch wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

We will see how the ongoing Hobbit boycott is doing: Still hge piles of "limited edtion" boxes to sell.
And I will be surprised if the new Codex prices plus obscene Terminator/Speeder/Talon price increases will not have serious negative impact on sales and people starting an army.

That isn't a Boycott... that is just a product no one wants for a price no one will pay, it is just an unwanted gakky product, like Dreadfleet. A Boycott implies that people really do want the product but are refusing to buy for some other issue.

I own a crap ton of GW's LotR line, including some of the stuff that was pretty much just direct only such as the Guards of the Galadhrim Court. I haven't however touched the Hobbit because it just isn't worth it. $50 for 6 warg riders, hahaha, ha. I like the Hunter Orcs, though they kinda look like they belong in an 80's movie with David Bowie, it is still nice to have variety, especially with horde guys like orcs. I'm not a fan of the Goblins as goblins, but once someone pointed out they look like Morlocks I rather wanted them (and may still via ebay where there are people breaking up the starter set so I can get them for about $1 a guy, which is a price I don't mind paying. I doubt I'm the only LotR fan that won't touch the Hobbit stuff not because we don't like it, but because of the price.

I heard that GW will be putting the rules from White Dwarf as PDF's on their website. When I was at my local GW a couple of weeks ago I overheard the staff talking about the White Dwarf rules becoming PDF's on the GW website and congratulating a kid who had bought up the issue with GW HQ due to not being able to find rules for the Storm Talon.

 MetalOxide wrote:
I heard that GW will be putting the rules from White Dwarf as PDF's on their website.

From?

 Ouze wrote:

 MetalOxide wrote:
I heard that GW will be putting the rules from White Dwarf as PDF's on their website.

From?

When I was at my local GW a couple of weeks ago I overheard the staff talking about the White Dwarf rules becoming PDF's on the GW website and congratulating a kid who had bought up the issue with GW HQ due to not being able to find rules for the Storm Talon.

I think, generally speaking, those dudes don't know anything. I hope you're right though.

 Ouze wrote:
I think, generally speaking, those dudes don't know anything. I hope you're right though.

He is the store manager and does go up to GW HQ quite regularly
if that adds any credibility...

Sometime DakkaDakka is worst than a basket full of snake. But is not my point. Can someone can give me one reason to buy WD. For now for me, WD is like just pictures and nothing else.

Davor wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I understand that 'hit them in the pocketbook' is the conventional wisdom, but do we have any anecdotal evidence that that has ever worked?

Put it this way. Is there an OFFICIAL GW forum? No there is not. Why? Because GW doesn't like the negativity going on. So yes complaining does work. GW solution though? Ignore and make sure nobody reads it. So OFFICIAL forums are gone now.

So you can see how GW handles things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 undertow wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Like how GW thinks that its perfectly reasonable for me to go get a $700 ipad, then pay $5.99 for the flyer rules, just so I have access to the dakkajet rules. I bet that goes really well when little timmy explains that to his mom when he wants to his DakkaJet.

GW doesn't expect you to purchase an iPad just to get the rules for the DakkaJet, the digital products are there for people that already have an iPad. I like how you chose one of the highest prices possible for an iPad to illustrate your point. They can be found much cheaper than that, especially if you go with the previous model.

Go for a previous model? Are you serious? I am sure it was said that the previous models don't work and you NEED the CURRENT model for it to work.

i have the first generation iPad, and all of the products work just fine on mine, books, codex, and mag....
so, no, you do not need the current model to get the flyer rules...
that would be insane...

cheers
jah

 MetalOxide wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I think, generally speaking, those dudes don't know anything. I hope you're right though.

He is the store manager and does go up to GW HQ quite regularly
if that adds any credibility...

Unfortunately it doesn't, but there is always hope.

I'm just the casual poster on here, nothing really that important, but I felt I had to say Ouze's 10 reasons to read WD was the funniest gak I have seen on here! Loved it.

hellpato wrote:
Sometime DakkaDakka is worst than a basket full of snake. But is not my point. Can someone can give me one reason to buy WD. For now for me, WD is like just pictures and nothing else.

Functional Illiteracy?

mtnoyster wrote:
I'm just the casual poster on here, nothing really that important, but I felt I had to say Ouze's 10 reasons to read WD was the funniest gak I have seen on here! Loved it.

I thought so too (click "exalt this post" below it if you want to make it more likely for others to see it)

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
I concur
The Sisters rules made people happy.

You are kidding, right?

Ouze wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Is there any reason to read a WD two weeks after release anymore?

1.) You live in a silo with guns, beans, and cats. There is no internet, but there is regular mail delivery.
2.) You have brain damage like that guy in Memento, and can only remember things from the last 2 weeks. All the stuff in WD is new when you read it.
3.) You are the mother of one of the writers, and he or she is doing so well, you'd like to pitch in.
4.) 2 more issues, and you'll be able to straighten the couch on both sides.
5.) The new glossy paper really makes your paper-mache masks pop.
6.) You're trying to hook up with a wargamer, so need them to lay casually on your coffee table in case he or she ever drops by.
7.) If you gather 250 consecutive issues of White Dwarf, and burn them atop a pyre of Citradel spray guns, legend has it Gwar will appear and answer a single rules-related question.
8.) You have extreme photophobia, and the light from an ipad or monitor causes intense pain. You can only read magazines by dim candlelight.
9.) Every time there's a picture of Matt Ward, you cut out his face, cross out his eyes with a red pen, and paste it into the ledger. Soon... soon.
10.) Like GW's executive staff, you're pretty sure this "internet thing" will blow over soon, and want something to read when that happens.

Take the easiest exalt I've ever handed out.

 jah-joshua wrote:
given all the extra functionality of an iPad, i don't understand this argument about only buying an iPad to read GW products...
you can play fun video games, surf the net, email, watch movies, listen to music, AND have cool interactive ebooks, along with a whole lot more...
the touch screen is awesome, an it's a lot more portable than a laptop, while being much bigger than a cellphone (better to see the pretty pictures)...
why do most posters seem to miss, or not care, that the iPad is so much more than an ereader???

Because not everyone wants an iPad in the first place.

 Fafnir wrote:
Because not everyone wants an iPad in the first place.

"That's not true! That's impossible!" - Luke Skywalker, iPad enthusiast

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Because not everyone wants an iPad in the first place.

"That's not true! That's impossible!" - Luke Skywalker, iPad enthusiast

Well played... Ironically though, didn't they have fake tablets at some point in the SW movies (or am I remembering that wrong)

I think putting rules in WD proved to be a mistake in 3rd edition and would be happy to see it go away, though another quick flyer update would probably go over well with the community, especially if it gave some much-needed love to the aging Tau or Eldar.

I know that the Stormtalon and Dakkajet certainly made many appearances on local tables when they came out!

What about the 3rd Ed rules in WD were a mistake, in your opinion?

I think that they got far too casual with Chapter Approved and started using it as a safety net for anything that needed fixing after a Codex release, but it did have its upsides (variant lists!).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What about the 3rd Ed rules in WD were a mistake, in your opinion?

I think that they got far too casual with Chapter Approved and started using it as a safety net for anything that needed fixing after a Codex release, but it did have its upsides (variant lists!).

There were just too many of them. It became very difficult to keep track of what all was going on, and while the Chapter Approved compilation books helped this to an extent, they also caused confusion and increased the amount of discrepancies between different events and stores.

The list variants, while cool, also promoted the "special snowflake syndrome" that led to a lot of rules bloat in 3.5e. Not every chapter needs a set of custom rules-- in most cases using characterful options in game will serve fine for this while also making the game easier to understand for opponents.

For instance, the current Codex: Space Marines does a fine job of portraying armies from most loyalist chapters despite having far fewer custom rules. If Captains with Jump Packs or Terminator Armor made Assault Marines or Terminators troops and Chapter Tactics could be taken as an upgrade for normal characters (or maybe only Captains and Chapter Masters), things would be just about perfect.

nkelsch wrote:
The issue is people complain about GW but still support them in droves by buying stuff. The only way GW will change is for people to walk away. Pirating doesn't prove to them their model,is bad, you still buy the models, and they still make a product you are consuming even illegally.

If a company makes it hard or impossible to purchase their product you simply do without and walk away. Don't consume it. Don't buy the rules, don't use the rules, don't buy the models, just walk away. Give your money to someone who operates In a way to get your business. Don't break the law and your integrity to fall over yourself to continue giving Gw your money, especially when they don't care about you.

Continuing to buy the plastic crack and complain about it doesn't encourage change... And Gw doesn't sell stock with every model, so owning their product gives you zero ownership in the company as much as customers seem to feel like they always deserve to be catered to.

They think they have a monopoly on the wargames industry.

People aren't willing to move onto other games systems to prove its not true.

Wasn't the change to the this current version meant to add content to it?

Glad I saw through that crap and continued not to bother with it.

 n0t_u wrote:
Wasn't the change to the this current version meant to add content to it?

Anyone who read the first issue could've told you that was untrue...

Find me someone who had so that I may ask them.

I have the first issue. I'm glad I did not buy it (a friend got it for me).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Because not everyone wants an iPad in the first place.

"That's not true! That's impossible!" - Luke Skywalker, iPad enthusiast

If I'm not mistaken you only need itunes for viewing gw's ibook stuff and itunes is free and works on windows.

Maybe somebody with a pc and gw digital stuff could try if they work with just itunes.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Because not everyone wants an iPad in the first place.

"That's not true! That's impossible!" - Luke Skywalker, iPad enthusiast

If I'm not mistaken you only need itunes for viewing gw's ibook stuff and itunes is free and works on windows.

Maybe somebody with a pc and gw digital stuff could try if they work with just itunes.

Unfortunetly its not true. Whilst you can buy the Games workshop rule books and white dwarfs through itunes, you can only read them on an iPad (not even an iPhone)

Plus iTunes is a virus, and should never be installed on any system.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plus iTunes is a virus, and should never be installed on any system.

I was just about to say the exact same thing myself. Word for word.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Because not everyone wants an iPad in the first place.

"That's not true! That's impossible!" - Luke Skywalker, iPad enthusiast

If I'm not mistaken you only need itunes for viewing gw's ibook stuff and itunes is free and works on windows.

Maybe somebody with a pc and gw digital stuff could try if they work with just itunes.

Yeah when you look up the book or rules it says "requirements" which you need an ipad with iOS 5 or higher, and iBook 2 installed.

Fafnir wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plus iTunes is a virus, and should never be installed on any system.

I was just about to say the exact same thing myself. Word for word.

Immature apple bashing is immature.

We're here to bag on white dwarf. Save your "Im a peecee enthoosiast" attitude for another forum.

SabrX wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
I concur
The Sisters rules made people happy.

You are kidding, right?

I am very happy with the SOB WD codex. I'm not happy that I had to make my own PDF from my copy but oh well.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Plus iTunes is a virus, and should never be installed on any system.

I lol'd.

Well, there is that other game that has made this method incredibly successful. What was it? I can't quite place the name. W... Wa...

feth it.

GW used to do this before. They were called datafaxes and they came with their vehicles, dreadnoughts, and bikes in 2nd Edition. It isn't a new concept.

Did anyone note the very subtle change in GW preview policy today?

WoC have been confirmed as being released on a Friday as opposed to Saturday (through the WD announcement on the main page).

What are they thinking?! Surely showing us Dragon Ogres a day early will kill sales?

 matphat wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
And I will be surprised if the new Codex prices plus obscene Terminator/Speeder/Talon price increases will not have serious negative impact on sales and people starting an army.

I could not agree more. I was seriously considering starting DA as my second army, after two years with Orks. Then I saw the prices and just started laughing.
I'm 41, my career pays well, and I could afford it, but I'll be damned if I'm paying those prices.
I still have my gaming money in my pocket because a $75 flyer is far outside my value system.

Same here. I bought Dark Vengeance, and was interested in starting both DA and Chaos, until I saw the prices. Also, GW seems to be more interested in making giant new units instead of retooling old units that are in dire need of an upgrade. I passed on the Hobbit as well.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

yeah,

 pretre wrote:

SabrX wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
I concur
The Sisters rules made people happy.

You are kidding, right?

I am very happy with the SOB WD codex. I'm not happy that I had to make my own PDF from my copy but oh well.

I think we have the same appreciation of WD published rules.

No one expects a full codex in WD.
Codex SOB enables people to play Sisters sans 3rd ed codex Witch Hunters
Most people think the codex is OK

I think it's sad that the codex and small rules add ons are not made into PDFs 2 months after WD publication.
they did it with the eldar night spinner... so why not the ork Bomber?
the only answer is greed to sell the iBomber rules


To cut this great content completely would be wrong!
It will take WD in the opposite direction to the direction the fans want/ cry for!!

Panic...

So a company sells a model, and releases free rules...

Sales happen.

Company sells another model and releases purchase only rules.

Sales still happen.

Unless sales drastically dropped... why would a company turn down free money to make a bunch of people who still buy your product but cry about it while forking over their money happy?

The only thing they listen to is lack of sales... Looks like the Nightspinner free rules compared to the Bommer irules only shows GW has no incentive to release free rules and the customers are all happy... Purchases do not allow for 'I will pay full price but draw a frownie face on my money'.

If sales actually suffered, the PDFs would have been posted to the website immediately and they would have had a month focusing on how the rules are free so buy 3 dakkajets today!

yeah,

nkelsch wrote:
...The only thing they listen to is lack of sales... Looks like the Nightspinner free rules compared to the Bommer irules only shows GW has no incentive to release free rules and the customers are all happy....

Not a fair comparison because the Nightspinner is dual kit with the prism which has rules in eldar codex..
None of the Ork jets are available in the Ork codex.

But I accept your point.. your probabily right!

It's weird that they would risk damaging sales for the sake of a 3 page pdf !
Most of the iPad content is just photos of jets. plus 3pages of rules (updated) from WD

Panic...

 Panic wrote:

It's weird that they would risk damaging sales for the sake of a 3 page pdf !
Most of the iPad content is just photos of jets. plus 3pages of rules (updated) from WD

Panic...

But if it actually 'damaged' sales, it is also an easy repair... They released them with a WD which peopel could buy... and so most of the original bulk got the WD.

Now people stragling in, they have to see if it shows those kits sell worse than others due to not being available. I am sure they have that data, and if they saw a drop, the PDFs would immediatly show up.

But also remember, since PDFs go directly into your iBook bookshelf, it would almost immediatly destroy all market for the digital rules. I do not feel that people would pay the 5.99$ for the 3D pictures and fluff. If they released free rules of all add ons, then they would basically need to conceed that they would release zero rule packs. I mean, look at the warhammer fantasy monster packs?

Not saying I agree that it is 'the best' I just don't see a reason they should change direction on this particular issue if it doesn't impact sales.

Now we may see that not putting them in WD may impact sales WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than not making a free PDF. A lot of people who bought Dakkajets at launch have the WD. If they don't even have the option for that, you may see a totally different customer response. The result may not be free PDFs but may be a return to rules in WD.

GW may have to do a full model release with only Digital rules with zero WD rules to see how that impacts sales before they will believe that there is an issue. If that happened, I would recommend not buying the model regardless how overpowered or cool it is until they get the message.

(if it is an ork release I will be buying it regardless, and that is why GW doesn't care what we think)

nkelsch wrote:
But also remember, since PDFs go directly into your iBook bookshelf, it would almost immediatly destroy all market for the digital rules.

You know what else destroys all market for the digital rules? People getting sick of GW's insane sales strategy and just pirating the rules. So, buy the model, download a scan of the rules, hope that GW someday finally decides to make them available to people who don't buy an ipad.

 Peregrine wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
But also remember, since PDFs go directly into your iBook bookshelf, it would almost immediatly destroy all market for the digital rules.

You know what else destroys all market for the digital rules? People getting sick of GW's insane sales strategy and just pirating the rules. So, buy the model, download a scan of the rules, hope that GW someday finally decides to make them available to people who don't buy an ipad.

So "I am going to steal them anyways so make it free" opposed to the "We sell it in a limited media and at least make some money" Especially when sales of the MODEL do not suffer at all with the lack of rule availability.

People with no principals would steal them if it was available everywhere and for a penny. Why cater to them and care what they think?

But you buy the model, GW gets their money... so why should GW care what you think in regards to the rules? People are addicted to GW and continue to give GW money and don't seem to realize the only way GW will realize their model is 'insane' is if they actually don't purchase the models. Otherwise if you continue to purchase, and no drop ins ales occurs with digital iRules only... then it isn't 'insane' at all.

yeah,
They must be able to work out how many ork bombers sold vs how many WD/iPad rule packs have sold.
even if it's as simple as a sample test amognst ork players at a tournament it will show up a percentage of people with printed out pirate PDFs...

This will prove that some people want the bomber but don't have legal access to the rules.
Add to that some people don't pirate and the only conclusion is that some people wont buy the bomber becuase they don't have access to the rules.

It may be a very small slice of their customer base that they don't care enough to help?

Panic...

 pretre wrote:

SabrX wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
I concur
The Sisters rules made people happy.

You are kidding, right?

I am very happy with the SOB WD codex. I'm not happy that I had to make my own PDF from my copy but oh well.

Are you more happy with SoB WD codex than codex Witch Hunters?

I certainly wasn't, but to each their own.

nkelsch wrote:
So "I am going to steal them anyways so make it free" opposed to the "We sell it in a limited media and at least make some money" Especially when sales of the MODEL do not suffer at all with the lack of rule availability.

So, how exactly do you know that sales of the model haven't suffered?

And there's a third option here: offer them for sale in a format anyone can use, not just ipad owners. GW has said vague things about expanding to other formats, but until they stop being lazy and get it done they need to just put up a free pdf.

People with no principals would steal them if it was available everywhere and for a penny. Why cater to them and care what they think?

I'm talking about the people who would buy the rules but are forced to pirate them because they don't have an ipad. Since the only non-ipad option is a magazine that immediately sold out anyone who doesn't subscribe to WD (IOW, anyone with any sense at all) has a choice between trying to find a copy on ebay or piracy. And guess which one of those options is more appealing. Oh, and don't bother trying to say that these people don't exist, we've seen the posts from people saying "I wouldn't pirate stuff normally, but I have no choice".

And of course it's worse than just the missed sale of the flyer rules. Once you start pirating rules because GW forces you to it's a lot easier and more appealing to continue pirating rules. So GW loses sales on the flyers and their rules, and probably loses sales of future books as well.

jah-joshua wrote:
why do most posters seem to miss, or not care, that the iPad is so much more than an ereader?

Because they can already do all those other things you mentioned on their PC, laptop, or phone, and so have no use for an overpriced gadget that has the primary function of being able to wave it around to show people that you have one?

I don't need an iPad. Outside of GW's digital releases, I simply have no practical use for one that isn't already covered by a device I already own.

If GW had released all of their codexes in a standard ebook format, I would have bought them in a heartbeat, to drop them onto my kobo or phone to carry to games. But releasing them in a format exclusive to Apple devices just so they can add a bunch of features that I neither want nor need means a big ol' meh from me.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plus iTunes is a virus, and should never be installed on any system.

I was just about to say the exact same thing myself. Word for word.

Immature apple bashing is immature.

We're here to bag on white dwarf. Save your "Im a peecee enthoosiast" attitude for another forum.

Uh... no. It's not Apple bashing. iTunes is a legitimately horrible program. It uses far more resources than it should, the way it tags metadata is horribly annoying, and actually getting the program off your computer is an exercise in frustration. Not to mention the way Apple uses it to push their other software incessantly.

 jah-joshua wrote:

Davor wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I understand that 'hit them in the pocketbook' is the conventional wisdom, but do we have any anecdotal evidence that that has ever worked?

Put it this way. Is there an OFFICIAL GW forum? No there is not. Why? Because GW doesn't like the negativity going on. So yes complaining does work. GW solution though? Ignore and make sure nobody reads it. So OFFICIAL forums are gone now.

So you can see how GW handles things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 undertow wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Like how GW thinks that its perfectly reasonable for me to go get a $700 ipad, then pay $5.99 for the flyer rules, just so I have access to the dakkajet rules. I bet that goes really well when little timmy explains that to his mom when he wants to his DakkaJet.

GW doesn't expect you to purchase an iPad just to get the rules for the DakkaJet, the digital products are there for people that already have an iPad. I like how you chose one of the highest prices possible for an iPad to illustrate your point. They can be found much cheaper than that, especially if you go with the previous model.

Go for a previous model? Are you serious? I am sure it was said that the previous models don't work and you NEED the CURRENT model for it to work.

i have the first generation iPad, and all of the products work just fine on mine, books, codex, and mag....
so, no, you do not need the current model to get the flyer rules...
that would be insane...

cheers
jah

Thanks, good to know. Maybe I will look for one now and see if I can get a good deal.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
We're here to bag on white dwarf. Save your "Im a peecee enthoosiast" attitude for another forum.

The only person mentioning PC's so far is you Scip. Projecting much?

And Fafnir covered the rest, especially the "getting it off your computer" part, which is why I called it a virus.

 Flashman wrote:
WoC have been confirmed as being released on a Friday as opposed to Saturday (through the WD announcement on the main page).

So people who order it can get it delivered on a Friday (when most postal services are working) as opposed to releasing it on a Saturday (when most postal services are not working). Nothing was more stupid that pre-ordering a book and having it ship on the Friday, so that it doesn't arrive 'til the following Monday, meaning you can't use it during the weekend. As a strategy to get us into stores to buy it it was insultingly stupid, even more stupid when you don't have any stores near you.

This is a change for the good, assuming it's a real change.

 Panic wrote:
Most people think the codex is OK

I know only one person who thinks it's okay.

And that's pretre.

 Flashman wrote:
Did anyone note the very subtle change in GW preview policy today?

WoC have been confirmed as being released on a Friday as opposed to Saturday (through the WD announcement on the main page).

What are they thinking?! Surely showing us Dragon Ogres a day early will kill sales?

MADNESS! Nothing good shall come of this!

 Fafnir wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plus iTunes is a virus, and should never be installed on any system.

I was just about to say the exact same thing myself. Word for word.

Immature apple bashing is immature.

We're here to bag on white dwarf. Save your "Im a peecee enthoosiast" attitude for another forum.

Uh... no. It's not Apple bashing. iTunes is a legitimately horrible program. It uses far more resources than it should, the way it tags metadata is horribly annoying, and actually getting the program off your computer is an exercise in frustration. Not to mention the way Apple uses it to push their other software incessantly.

You could just...not open it. I use it to transfer things to my ipod and while it takes far too long to load, if I don't touch it it leaves me alone. It's a lot like bears in that respect.

Can you download from the istore using anything other than iTunes?

The big complaint I have about the iPad codex thing is the fact that they don't have a link to it on the GW website, making it kind of pointless. How is a person who goes to Games-Workshop.com to know that Sisters even HAVE a codex?

Every other section has an Army Essentials section with a codex and maybe a battleforce. Sisters don't. I haven't been able to find a reference on their website that shows where to find it, and the only actual mention of the codex itself is hidden in the FAQ, and there isn't any indication that it is for sale.

This is just incompetence. I mean sure the codex is BAD, but apparently it's so bad they don't even want to let people know it's for sale.

 insaniak wrote:
Can you download from the istore using anything other than iTunes?

No.

 Melissia wrote:
I mean sure the codex is BAD, but apparently it's so bad they don't even want to let people know it's for sale.

Exactly, that's the whole point. GW doesn't want you to buy SoB right now (though they'll take your money if you insist), they want you to buy all of the latest space marines now (helpful bundle! buy now and save 0%!) and then buy your SoB army later when they re-release everything at a 300% price increase.


(Hey, when the alternative explanation is "GW knows less about how to run a business than the average 15 year old GW customer" it HAS to be the right answer.)

yeah,

 Melissia wrote:

 Panic wrote:
Most people think the codex is OK

I know only one person who thinks it's okay.

And that's pretre.

I've been playing against it, and while i'm no 40k mastermind IMO it's a pretty fething good codex.

Maybe aribtorIan is a 40k tactics genius and/or the WD codex is actually usable, but he has used that codex and limited himself to options that worked as Arbites!
and he still did very well at a fething brutal tournament.... he ended up in the top 10%
... but do you expect more from a article in an amazine/catalo..../yawn*

Panic...

 insaniak wrote:
Can you download from the istore using anything other than iTunes?

Yes. You dont even have to open itunes unless you really want to. The in built "app store"-application on the iPad downloads stuff and lets you browse your regions itunes store. Buying and downloading stuff.

 Panic wrote:
yeah,

 Melissia wrote:

 Panic wrote:
Most people think the codex is OK

I know only one person who thinks it's okay.

And that's pretre.

I've been playing against it, and while i'm no 40k mastermind IMO it's a pretty fething good codex.

Maybe aribtorIan is a 40k tactics genius and/or the WD codex is actually usable, but he has used that codex and limited himself to options that worked as Arbites!
and he still did very well at a fething brutal tournament.... he ended up in the top 10%
... but do you expect more from a article in an amazine/catalo..../yawn*

Panic...

The issue isn't that it's competitive (it is) the issue is similar to Nids or IG. They have crap internal balance. There will be one ok unit, one decent unit, one amazing unit, and the rest will be crap.

For every exorcist you have pentitent engines for example. It's like with IG how every fast attack choice gets ragged on because its not a vendetta.

Every codex is competitive if played right.

But the Sisters codex basically had one big flaw-- it was boring. It added nothing new and removed a lot of fun things, and had even less variety than C:WH.

Re: sob wd codex

Yes, I like it more than codex witch hunters but not as much as codex chapter approved.

And if you stopped by the sob thread and were civil, M, you'd see there are tons I people who enjoy the new wd codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
basically had one big flaw-- it was boring. It added nothing new and removed a lot of fun things.

Biting tongue...

Say what you want, pretre, but if you try to say that it did not take away a lot of options, you would be very wrong.

 insaniak wrote:

jah-joshua wrote:
why do most posters seem to miss, or not care, that the iPad is so much more than an ereader?

Because they can already do all those other things you mentioned on their PC, laptop, or phone, and so have no use for an overpriced gadget that has the primary function of being able to wave it around to show people that you have one?

I don't need an iPad. Outside of GW's digital releases, I simply have no practical use for one that isn't already covered by a device I already own.

If GW had released all of their codexes in a standard ebook format, I would have bought them in a heartbeat, to drop them onto my kobo or phone to carry to games. But releasing them in a format exclusive to Apple devices just so they can add a bunch of features that I neither want nor need means a big ol' meh from me.

i respect your "big ol' meh", and i'm a huge fan of your conversions, insaniak...
that said, i don't think the iPad is "an overpriced gadget that has the primary function of being able to wave it around to show people that you have one?"
this is a very personal situation, and opinion, but it is great for me...
living in a small village in Mexico, i would have to wait until someone is coming to visit in order to get books...
now, i get them anytime, thanks to the iPad...

i do have a 17" laptop that made looking at minis, and editing my photos, really nice, until the video card died...
now i have a doorstop until i can track down a whole new motherboard, thanks to some stupid integrated card set-up...
luckily, i have the iPad to get me through until i can track down a motherboard from some place like Hong Kong, because i sure as hell can't find one in Mexico...

plus, mine was a gift from Nike, so it's not like i bought it to flaunt it...
doesn't mean i didn't fall in love with the touchscreen action...
c'mon, it's like having the 40K dataslate i have imagined for 25 years...

i just got the new digital White Dwarf today, by the way...
the WoC stuff looks so crisp, and there is a great UK Golden Demon round-up, plus another Blanchitsu spotlight on our very own PDH...
congrats, mate!!!

cheers
jah

This shouldn't be a big problem. If you don't have to buy copies of WD any more that's money you just saved on buying a WD issue.

Although there may be problems with content delivery. Codexes and FAQs both suck as content delivery platforms since the first is so expensive and slow to release, usually behind the rules curve and the latter is so complicated to keep up with and carry around.

The only th...

Oh you. You almost made me commit one of the three classic blunders. Obviously, never get into a land war in Asia and never get into it with a Sicilian when death is on the line, but slightly less known is 'never discuss sisters of battle with Melissia unless you want a Dakka vacation.

 pretre wrote:
Re: sob wd codex

Yes, I like it more than codex witch hunters but not as much as codex chapter approved.

And if you stopped by the sob thread and were civil, M, you'd see there are tons I people who enjoy the new wd codex.

Is that a lot of people who've never played codex Witch Hunters and playing codex SoB WD for the first time or is it people who've played codex Witch Hunters and know they are getting the shorter end of the stick after the release of codex SoB WD?

I could go on and on ranting what SoB lost in the transition, but that would derail this thread.

Knowing what they've done to SoB, I welcome WD not having rules anymore. It's fair to customers.

 pretre wrote:
The only th...

I could go on about what I mean, but I think that'd be off topic a bit much. So let's tlak about the fact that it's almost impossible to find the PDF from GW's website instead

If not actually impossible. Been looking through the articles, no mention at all. Not that Sisters are often mentioned to begin with.

as far as i can see, there is no legit way to get the Sisters list, at all...
it has not been put up for sale on iBooks, like the flyer rules are...
no back issues of the print mag available, it seems...
i couldn't find a pdf on the GW site, either...

i guess it's a good thing that most people seemed to hate the list then, huh???
it does seem crazy that rules are hard to get...

cheers
jah

Fafnir wrote:
Uh... no. It's not Apple bashing. iTunes is a legitimately horrible program. It uses far more resources than it should, the way it tags metadata is horribly annoying, and actually getting the program off your computer is an exercise in frustration. Not to mention the way Apple uses it to push their other software incessantly.

I'm not arguing, honestly. Not because I am not an outwardly agressive prick, but because I can't really argue the point. iTunes Spikes my CPU usage up to 80% when it starts - even SII:TW doesn't quite get up there.

But, getting it off has never been a problem for me; I once had to uninstall it because it was behaving weirdly with my peripherals (cycling through songs, stopping randomly.). I got it off in control panel in safe mode without hassle - even kept the music, too.

All I meant is that this forum isn't really the place to have these arguments. The complaint is about GW appealing to iPad users, not about Apple/iTunes.

That said, I walked out of a GW store tournament when they told me the cost-as-much iPad SM codex wasn't legitimate for tournament use.

On the other hand, who would actually buy an edition of white dwarf, even for its rules, when the internet makes it so easy for you to do?
Edit: I meant, who would buy WD when you could simply get the rules you want from WD off the internet after-sale. I was not insinuating that you should steal from GW and if I was, I certainly wouldn't insinuate it so publicly.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
We're here to bag on white dwarf. Save your "Im a peecee enthoosiast" attitude for another forum.

The only person mentioning PC's so far is you Scip. Projecting much?

And Fafnir covered the rest, especially the "getting it off your computer" part, which is why I called it a virus.

Yep. It's an easy point to make. I'm enthusiastic about my PC's hardware without having to bag on an unrelated company in a thread about why we hate GW and wish we had the self control to stop playing their products altogether, but really we just want to get our plastic crack a little cheaper.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
That said, I walked out of a GW store tournament when they told me the cost-as-much iPad SM codex wasn't legitimate for tournament use.

They did what now?

 SabrX wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Re: sob wd codex

Yes, I like it more than codex witch hunters but not as much as codex chapter approved.

And if you stopped by the sob thread and were civil, M, you'd see there are tons I people who enjoy the new wd codex.

Is that a lot of people who've never played codex Witch Hunters and playing codex SoB WD for the first time or is it people who've played codex Witch Hunters and know they are getting the shorter end of the stick after the release of codex SoB WD?

I could go on and on ranting what SoB lost in the transition, but that would derail this thread.

Knowing what they've done to SoB, I welcome WD not having rules anymore. It's fair to customers.

As someone who hasn't played with the Witchunter codex, since my last contact with them was in 2nd. I like the codex. Maybe not all the units have 'competititve' uses, but I've used everything in Apocalypse and all apart from Celestians have been useful/fun (Seriously, Celestians.. what am I supposed to do with them?)

Wanting to start a new army and the WD Codex being printed at the same time made me pick them up and I've never thought 'this codex sucks so much, sell the army!'. And it's sure more competitive than my Eldar.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
That said, I walked out of a GW store tournament when they told me the cost-as-much iPad SM codex wasn't legitimate for tournament use.

They did what now?

Wow, just wow. How stupid can GW get

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
That said, I walked out of a GW store tournament when they told me the cost-as-much iPad SM codex wasn't legitimate for tournament use.

They did what now?

Wow, just wow. How stupid can GW get

Wait, what

That's almost like GW saying "please don't buy our space marine models".

 Melissia wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
That said, I walked out of a GW store tournament when they told me the cost-as-much iPad SM codex wasn't legitimate for tournament use.

They did what now?

Wow, just wow. How stupid can GW get

Wait, what

That's almost like GW saying "please don't buy our space marine models".

Or asking their customers to go play Warmahordes instead.

 Fafnir wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plus iTunes is a virus, and should never be installed on any system.

I was just about to say the exact same thing myself. Word for word.

I don't even understand this. Is it because it's useful only for Apple products?

"All kinds of Space Marines are banned from official GW 40k tournaments". You heard it here first

[Edited]

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plus iTunes is a virus, and should never be installed on any system.

I was just about to say the exact same thing myself. Word for word.

I don't even understand this. Is it because it's useful only for Apple products?

As I've said, it's a resource hog, it's constantly trying to install other apple software with every update and its method of storing metadata is horrendous, amoung other issues.

I think people might be drawing the wrong idea. Clearly this is in response to the vexing "We have no idea how to provide White Dwarf back issues to distributors" problem that publishing copies of White Dwarf that people might actually want produces.

mixed bag, the sob WD dex- great fun to play but doesn't have the variety of the old witch hunters dex (no canoness jump packs..eh?).

since i returned to 40k in 2009 i have only ever bought WD for rules updates. so if this is true, no more WD for me!