So two random questions I don't really see many talking about.
What do you think will happen with Nobz come this edition? We kind of have a weird in between now with Boyz < Snagas < Nobz. I'm assuming Nobz of course will go to T5 and keep their 2 wounds / 4 save, but is that enough to make them worth anything in your eyes?
I think of any GW kit, Nobz are one of my favorites as it comes with so many goodies and has better proportioned orks. I just can never find a decent use for them. S4 basically means S5-6 with all the AP everywhere lol.
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Other question. I'm building a Mega Dread at the moment. Before I took a break I was hearing they were nasty dreads that'd get in and really mess up anything they got near. Anyone still running them?
Keramory wrote: So two random questions I don't really see many talking about.
What do you think will happen with Nobz come this edition? We kind of have a weird in between now with Boyz < Snagas < Nobz. I'm assuming Nobz of course will go to T5 and keep their 2 wounds / 4 save, but is that enough to make them worth anything in your eyes?
I think of any GW kit, Nobz are one of my favorites as it comes with so many goodies and has better proportioned orks. I just can never find a decent use for them. S4 basically means S5-6 with all the AP everywhere lol.
to give you my 2 cents on your first question, i see one of two things happening.
1: Boyz get a somewhat hefty price increase (2-4pts) and become unusable for all intents and purposes. Nobz at the same time receive no price hike and are moved to troops and instead become Gravis style orkz with 2 wounds T5 and a 4+ save. This works to eliminate boyz spam and encourage Ork players to take Nobz instead which would reduce the model count of armies.
Keramory wrote: So two random questions I don't really see many talking about.
What do you think will happen with Nobz come this edition? We kind of have a weird in between now with Boyz < Snagas < Nobz. I'm assuming Nobz of course will go to T5 and keep their 2 wounds / 4 save, but is that enough to make them worth anything in your eyes?
I think of any GW kit, Nobz are one of my favorites as it comes with so many goodies and has better proportioned orks. I just can never find a decent use for them. S4 basically means S5-6 with all the AP everywhere lol.
to give you my 2 cents on your first question, i see one of two things happening.
1: Boyz get a somewhat hefty price increase (2-4pts) and become unusable for all intents and purposes. Nobz at the same time receive no price hike and are moved to troops and instead become Gravis style orkz with 2 wounds T5 and a 4+ save. This works to eliminate boyz spam and encourage Ork players to take Nobz instead which would reduce the model count of armies.
2: nothing. They stay functionally useless.
I use small squads of 5 with big choppas/choppas regularly in evil suns horde. 110 pts for a sacrificial da jump unit that can beat up elite infantry and dreadnaughts pretty damn well. Can fit 2 MSUs for the price of 10 tankbustas + 4 bomb squigs and it's a better option IMHO. They're also a good candidate for morka/gorkanaut transport capacity if you're running those.
Nobz manly differentiate themselves from similar options by being able to take a lot of gear.
PKs are going to be a lot better with our codex, and depending on how much you have to pay for big choppas and combi-weapons a decked out unit of nobz could actually be something you would want to bring regularly.
Worst case would be GW limiting their options plague marine style - which would not only require about two pages of rules, but also leave you with a very weird unit that can't do anything properly.
Jidmah wrote: Nobz manly differentiate themselves from similar options by being able to take a lot of gear.
PKs are going to be a lot better with our codex, and depending on how much you have to pay for big choppas and combi-weapons a decked out unit of nobz could actually be something you would want to bring regularly.
Worst case would be GW limiting their options plague marine style - which would not only require about two pages of rules, but also leave you with a very weird unit that can't do anything properly.
The upside of the Plague Marine option is that there are plenty of big choppas, choppas and klaws in one box that you can still make a vaguely viable melee unit.
I think they will stay more or less the same (but with the T5) and just stay a toolbox unit that can be kitted to fill out any holes in your list.
I would think the ideal purpose of Nobz is to throw them in transports. Do Snagga Gitz usurp the purpose of them, particularly if they are troops?
It seems like the primary argument against Nobz comes down to the Primaris meta.
How are PKs going to get better? They have consistently released book after book with them being the same cost as a Killsaw and they are strictly inferior to the KS at the same cost. I don't know if GW have done the math on -3 versus -4 AP, but they appear absolutely convinced that they are the same thing. They've had plenty of time to come to the realization, so I increasingly find it unlikely they will come to a sudden epiphany.
As much as I would prefer them being superior or at least equivalent from a modeling standpoint, I don't know that I see it happening.
TedNugent wrote: I would think the ideal purpose of Nobz is to throw them in transports. Do Snagga Gitz usurp the purpose of them, particularly if they are troops?
It seems like the primary argument against Nobz comes down to the Primaris meta.
There isn't much of a primaris meta anymore though? People are struggling to stop units of 10-20 T3 1W models now and use dedicated anti-tank versus vehicles.
How are PKs going to get better? They have consistently released book after book with them being the same cost as a Killsaw and they are strictly inferior to the KS at the same cost. I don't know if GW have done the math on -3 versus -4 AP, but they appear absolutely convinced that they are the same thing. They've had plenty of time to come to the realization, so I increasingly find it unlikely they will come to a sudden epiphany.
It's fairly safe that PKs will be going to Ap-3 2 DMG while killsaws might possibly get the chainfist treatment (d3 damage, flat 3 vs vehicles).
Either way, GW has put significant effort into solving such auto-takes across all 9th edition codices, so there is good reason to believe that orks will be no different.
I don't think nobz will become troops, snaggas are our new troop option. Nobz are and will be the counterpart of SM veterans: elites that can have tons of juicy guns and close combat weapons and "cheap" enough to justify large squads. It's the only unit in our codex that is designed this way, I really doubt GW will change it.
I use small squads of 5 with big choppas/choppas regularly in evil suns horde. 110 pts for a sacrificial da jump unit that can beat up elite infantry and dreadnaughts pretty damn well. Can fit 2 MSUs for the price of 10 tankbustas + 4 bomb squigs and it's a better option IMHO. They're also a good candidate for morka/gorkanaut transport capacity if you're running those.
I vastly prefer tankbustas and to run empty nauts. But I don't think nobz, and biker nobz, are absolute trash. I'd just take meganobz if I want heavy hitters. 3 dudes with double killsaws is 120 points and they're much better than the 110 squad of nobz. More killy and more durable.
I will be playing a 1500 pt. ” tournament” in my local meta next week. I will be playing against Ad Mech, Guard and Blood Angels using the WTC 2021 Terrain Maps.
I’m having a hard time deciding my army composition. Here are the units that I have available:
HQs: Warboss on Warbike, Warboss, Weirdboy, Ghazghkull, Big Mek /w KFF, Big Mek /w SAG Troops: 60 Slugga/choppa Boyz, 20 Shoota Boyz, 20 Gretchin
Elites: 10 Kommandos, 6 Meganobz, 5 Tankbustas, 5 Nobz, Painboy
Fast Attack: 3 Deffkoptas, 5 Stormboyz, 2 Shokkjump Dragstas, 2 Megatrakk Scrapjets
Heavy Support: Battlewagon/Bonebreaka/Gunwagon/Kannonwagon, 1 Deff Dread, 2 Mek Gunz
Flyer: 1 Ork Flyer that I can use as any of them
Transport: 2 Trukks
- 2 Gretchin units would be cheap objective holders on my table side
- Weirdboy would Da Jump Boyz and /or Meganobz
- Warboss on Bike as a missile or charging along with Scrapjets
- 2x5 Kommandos + Stormboyz as versatile board control units for objectives and secondaries
- Meganobz as a real threat to opponents valuable units with Da Jump
- Shokkjump Dragstas and Deff Dread (in Tellyporta) for tank hunting
- Megatrakk Scrapjets for their melee capabilities (and also for light vehicle hunting)
- Kannonwagon staying in the backfield for fire support
- The 1 Smasha Gun is a bit of a point filler and can be used to snipe some unguarded characters/elites/vehicles
Possible Secondaries:
1. Engage on All Fronts
2. Retrieve Octarius Data
3. [depending on the mission/opponent]
Do you have any suggestions regarding my list or tactics against these factions? The factions I'm playing against are quite strong against Orks in our local meta, for example, I have found it hard to deal with Guard's and Ad Mech's firepower. Against Blood Angels, I haven't played that much so it's a bit unknown to me.
I'm still quite new to 40k, have been hobbying with my friends since the beginning of 9th edition.
I will be playing a 1500 pt. ” tournament” in my local meta next week. I will be playing against Ad Mech, Guard and Blood Angels using the WTC 2021 Terrain Maps.
I’m having a hard time deciding my army composition. Here are the units that I have available:
HQs: Warboss on Warbike, Warboss, Weirdboy, Ghazghkull, Big Mek /w KFF, Big Mek /w SAG Troops: 60 Slugga/choppa Boyz, 20 Shoota Boyz, 20 Gretchin
Elites: 10 Kommandos, 6 Meganobz, 5 Tankbustas, 5 Nobz, Painboy
Fast Attack: 3 Deffkoptas, 5 Stormboyz, 2 Shokkjump Dragstas, 2 Megatrakk Scrapjets
Heavy Support: Battlewagon/Bonebreaka/Gunwagon/Kannonwagon, 1 Deff Dread, 2 Mek Gunz
Flyer: 1 Ork Flyer that I can use as any of them
Transport: 2 Trukks
- 2 Gretchin units would be cheap objective holders on my table side
- Weirdboy would Da Jump Boyz and /or Meganobz
- Warboss on Bike as a missile or charging along with Scrapjets
- 2x5 Kommandos + Stormboyz as versatile board control units for objectives and secondaries
- Meganobz as a real threat to opponents valuable units with Da Jump
- Shokkjump Dragstas and Deff Dread (in Tellyporta) for tank hunting
- Megatrakk Scrapjets for their melee capabilities (and also for light vehicle hunting)
- Kannonwagon staying in the backfield for fire support
- The 1 Smasha Gun is a bit of a point filler and can be used to snipe some unguarded characters/elites/vehicles
Possible Secondaries:
1. Engage on All Fronts
2. Retrieve Octarius Data
3. [depending on the mission/opponent]
Do you have any suggestions regarding my list or tactics against these factions? The factions I'm playing against are quite strong against Orks in our local meta, for example, I have found it hard to deal with Guard's and Ad Mech's firepower. Against Blood Angels, I haven't played that much so it's a bit unknown to me.
I'm still quite new to 40k, have been hobbying with my friends since the beginning of 9th edition.
A few suggestions:
- The stormboyz will be either hiding and or dead. The two killsaws on the nob are unlikely to be of any help.
- Same for kommadoz, you can skip the klaw by just not getting a nob.
- Put a dreadklaw on the dread, when you face deathguard, -1 damage units or terminators this will make a huge difference.
- A single smasha is unlikely to make a difference, trade it with the savings outlined above for a trukk for your (storm) boyz for extra mobility and a harassing unit.
- In my experience not even 'ard as nails and cybork combined are enough to save a warboss when he is caught out in the open, so I prefer offensive warlord traits and the almighty killa klaw. But feel free to give it a spin and see for yourself.
- There is no reason to not upgrade your weird boy to a warphead.
I use small squads of 5 with big choppas/choppas regularly in evil suns horde. 110 pts for a sacrificial da jump unit that can beat up elite infantry and dreadnaughts pretty damn well. Can fit 2 MSUs for the price of 10 tankbustas + 4 bomb squigs and it's a better option IMHO. They're also a good candidate for morka/gorkanaut transport capacity if you're running those.
The problem with Nobz is they are the opposite of durable, the 4+ save just doesn't cut it for a 17pt model, a 19pt Assault intercessor has better movement, ballistic skill, LD -1AP on basic weapon and Save The only thing the Nob has over the assault intercessor is S5 and more attacks AFTER the first round of combat.
I don't think anyone believes Ork boyz are doing great in terms of dmg, but for about the same price as those 5 nobz you could instead take 12 boyz and a Nob with Big Choppa. And while they don't do as much dmg to elite infantry/vehicles as 5 nobz they do have a much bigger board presence and believe it or not, are actually tougher to remove thanks to the plethora of D2 weapons running around in the game today...kinda like Big choppas
Honestly I think we only have a two weeks before the leaks start coming and upend a lot of the current ork codex and change which units work best.. there is a substantial amount of completely new units already previewed and some fundamental changes that touches upon every ork unit… where units like nobs and bikers and other less then ideal 9th edition units sit after may end up changing. This is already more then a normal new codex revamp.
gungo wrote: Honestly I think we only have a two weeks before the leaks start coming and upend a lot of the current ork codex and change which units work best.. there is a substantial amount of completely new units already previewed and some fundamental changes that touches upon every ork unit… where units like nobs and bikers and other less then ideal 9th edition units sit after may end up changing. This is already more then a normal new codex revamp.
Well of course, every single edition since I can remember GW has done a 180 on units being good for the most part. Look at our poor beloved killakanz and warbikers
Orks are the exception to that rule. Killakanz havnt been good since Vehicles got wounds, at best they were "usable" before the 7th edition codex just butchered them.
We have several units that have been completely useless for quite awhile. Which is really weird since GW is known to mega-buff stuff that isnt selling at all and nerfbat stuff that sold like wildfire
Im hopeful for killkanz but i highly doubt anything is going to help them. Snaggas are the focus atm, not grots, and until grots are the focus i dont expect jack for them
Vineheart01 wrote: Orks are the exception to that rule.
Killakanz havnt been good since Vehicles got wounds, at best they were "usable" before the 7th edition codex just butchered them.
We have several units that have been completely useless for quite awhile. Which is really weird since GW is known to mega-buff stuff that isnt selling at all and nerfbat stuff that sold like wildfire
Im hopeful for killkanz but i highly doubt anything is going to help them. Snaggas are the focus atm, not grots, and until grots are the focus i dont expect jack for them
It is kind of funny that an Ork boy is now as tough as a Kill Kan. Maybe Kans will go up in toughness at the very least...
Do you think dreads will get -1 damage like their SM counterpart?
Vineheart01 wrote: Orks are the exception to that rule.
Killakanz havnt been good since Vehicles got wounds, at best they were "usable" before the 7th edition codex just butchered them.
We have several units that have been completely useless for quite awhile. Which is really weird since GW is known to mega-buff stuff that isnt selling at all and nerfbat stuff that sold like wildfire
Im hopeful for killkanz but i highly doubt anything is going to help them. Snaggas are the focus atm, not grots, and until grots are the focus i dont expect jack for them
It is kind of funny that an Ork boy is now as tough as a Kill Kan. Maybe Kans will go up in toughness at the very least...
Do you think dreads will get -1 damage like their SM counterpart?
Rumour has it that ramshackle is -1 damage if the STR of the weapon coming is is 7 or less.
I could see all Ork vehicles getting ramshackle, so if this is true.. sort of?
In unrelated news and I hate to quote BOLS…
But I’ll be darn surprised if there isn’t a big Mek model included in this wave…. Especially with a new ork meganob and big Mek action figure coming!
If that's real and Taco Bell of Lost Souls isn't clickbaiting like they usually are, I'd be actually very interested in grabbing those. Would be fun counts as stompas xD
Rumour has it that ramshackle is -1 damage if the STR of the weapon coming is is 7 or less.
I could see all Ork vehicles getting ramshackle, so if this is true.. sort of?
I won't complain if its a free buff, but my vehicles aren't worried about taking dmg from S7 or less, its the damn melta, obliterating my vehicles that is the problem, that and the Plasma. If that is a real rule its going to be mostly useless in my area.
Rumour has it that ramshackle is -1 damage if the STR of the weapon coming is is 7 or less.
I could see all Ork vehicles getting ramshackle, so if this is true.. sort of?
I won't complain if its a free buff, but my vehicles aren't worried about taking dmg from S7 or less, its the damn melta, obliterating my vehicles that is the problem, that and the Plasma. If that is a real rule its going to be mostly useless in my area.
this is secondhand info, so take it with a grain of salt.
But yeah, it's largely a nerf imo. the current ramshackle when combined even with a 6++ is actually shockingly powerful. a Deathskull trukk has a 11/36 (IE: just under 33%) chance of either taking 0-1 damage from any attack that comes its way currently. That's actually *nuts* for a cheap ass vehicle like a trukk.
The ideal guns against our cheapo vehicles are probably autocannon like vehicles, but we do live a meta of sisters, dark lances, chicken walkers... where str 8+ anti tank weapons are plentiful, common, and deadly.
That version of Ramshackle does practically nothing (because I assume, like all damage reduction rules, it still caps at minimum 1 damage). Sincerely hope it's not real.
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See it being read many times, but have no replies.
Would sincerely appreciate any advice to get my WAAAAGGH! kickin’.
Lack experience with 40k for at least a decade, so any help would be great.
FYI- Have a lot more models; MANz, Trukks, TBs, Battlewagons, tons of Boyz, Pain Boy, Dakka Jet, Gorkanaut, etc. that can be called in. No Buggies, Lootas, Boyz or Burna Boyz in my Army collection yet.
See it being read many times, but have no replies.
Would sincerely appreciate any advice to get my WAAAAGGH! kickin’.
Lack experience with 40k for at least a decade, so any help would be great.
FYI- Have a lot more models; MANz, Trukks, TBs, Battlewagons, tons of Boyz, Pain Boy, Dakka Jet, Gorkanaut, etc. that can be called in. No Buggies, Lootas, Boyz or Burna Boyz in my Army collection yet.
Da Groxx
Posted a list for you bud, sadly, you are using the old points costs from 8th.
I am going out with one last WWAAAGGGGHH! before the new Codex hits. I'm taking this GT more seriously than the last one, which was the first out of COVID restrictions so I was really just using it to get a bunch of games in after a year of minimal gaming.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I am going out with one last WWAAAGGGGHH! before the new Codex hits. I'm taking this GT more seriously than the last one, which was the first out of COVID restrictions so I was really just using it to get a bunch of games in after a year of minimal gaming.
Have tried that list before? When I run that many buggies I regularly run into the issue that they clog up chokepoints and my army goes nowhere.
My Orks are always a buggy heavy, Evil Sunz Speed Freeks army, so I have! In fact I took a similar but less optimized list to the GT last time and it worked out pretty well minus my tendency to, pardon the pun, "see red" and be too aggressive. I even had a Gorkanaut last time and still managed to move around the board just fine.
I took KannonWagons last time so I did not have to maneuver the BW chassis too much but I think I have a handle on the maneuverability.
Having just played in some 1k friendly games (so small tables and deployment zones) last weekend with a mork and gorkanaut I say go for it buddy, as long as you can get out of your DZ and engage the other army in at least mid table it isn't usually too much of an issue. You sound like you've got the experience and confidence with the list and I think this close to our new book (hopefully !) I'd say to for it and play what seems like fun Good luck with the GT dude !
I would scrap all the big shootas and save the 50pts for something that can actually...do something. 10 big shootas average 2.5dmg against Space Marines a turn. you are better off taking more boyz than that
SemperMortis wrote: I would scrap all the big shootas and save the 50pts for something that can actually...do something. 10 big shootas average 2.5dmg against Space Marines a turn. you are better off taking more boyz than that
Ditto this. Those 50 points can get you a squad of grots or kommandos which will potentially get you way more VP than the big shootas will.
Otherwise I personally would run the list as Deathskulls to capitalise on the rerolls for the buggies, but you do you.
SemperMortis wrote: I would scrap all the big shootas and save the 50pts for something that can actually...do something. 10 big shootas average 2.5dmg against Space Marines a turn. you are better off taking more boyz than that
Ditto this. Those 50 points can get you a squad of grots or kommandos which will potentially get you way more VP than the big shootas will.
Otherwise I personally would run the list as Deathskulls to capitalise on the rerolls for the buggies, but you do you.
So I won't drop the big shootas from the Bonebreakas for two reasons - One is I just have a habit of some ridiculous luck with big shootas. Like, I've killed Magnus with big shootas after failing to touch him with multiple rokkits and kustom shokk rifles lol. Second, I only have so many Boyz because when I started my Ork Speed Freek army I anticipated Boyz being redone... and here they come. So only have 22 Boyz. Don't have any Kommandos either since they don't fit my style.
However, you gave me an idea and I shuffled some points around elsewhere - mainly dropping the grot oilers and the big shootas off the boyz, and I was able to fit in that squad of grots! So hopefully that'll keep me on a home objective to secure those VPs.
So I played a game against a Necron Silver Tide list and really didn't get many VP. He had 50 Warriors w. Reapers, various support characters, Lord on disco boat, Ghost barge, 2x Doom Stalkers and 3-4 melee destroyers. He played the CC oriented Dynasty, to also make the warriors work in CC.
I had a boss on bike, KFF Mega Mek, 2 Battlewagons w. meganobz and boyz, 2 trukks w. shoota boyz, and a Kannonwagon.
I tried to push into the middle of the board and also into his deployment zone, but got stopped by all the warriors.
The Doom Stalker special rule that gives automatic overwatch is quite nasty
The Meganobz and small boy squads did not have enough attacks to kill the big blobs of 20 warriors off. They came back, and actually finished off my Meganobz in close combat, something that I did not expect!
My Biker boss bounced off his lord in CC, because the Mega Mek had the Killa Klaw. I don't think I'll be splitting out the killing power that much again.
The only effective thing in my army was the Kannonwagon, that manged to roll really well and wipe out the melee Destroyers turn 1!
I also made some game play mistakes, charging his big units, allowing him to pile in on an objective, which cost me a lot of VP in turn 2.
I think I could have won if I had had a better game plan and did not make as many mistakes, but boy I'm glad that he did not play a super competitive Necron list.
Speaking of tankbustas... What is the go-to loadout for them? is it just a bunch of rokkit launcha bois or is there something specific that makes them good?
pepi55 wrote: Speaking of tankbustas... What is the go-to loadout for them? is it just a bunch of rokkit launcha bois or is there something specific that makes them good?
The only updrade worth taking is bomb squigs, which are pretty good and you can max them out if you have the chance. Full re-rolls against vehicles is what makes them good.
This. Apart from bomb squigs only decision is klan. Bad moon would be ideal for shoot twice but just for sake of those isn't worth it and multi klan hit by CP change. Deathskull you can use the stratagem to reroll wounds which is fine but other than that just slap in bomb squigs, fire and prepare to lose them. They are pretty much one shot wonders unless they are in battlewagon and quite possibly then too.
Bonde wrote: So I played a game against a Necron Silver Tide list and really didn't get many VP. He had 50 Warriors w. Reapers, various support characters, Lord on disco boat, Ghost barge, 2x Doom Stalkers and 3-4 melee destroyers. He played the CC oriented Dynasty, to also make the warriors work in CC.
I had a boss on bike, KFF Mega Mek, 2 Battlewagons w. meganobz and boyz, 2 trukks w. shoota boyz, and a Kannonwagon.
I tried to push into the middle of the board and also into his deployment zone, but got stopped by all the warriors.
The Doom Stalker special rule that gives automatic overwatch is quite nasty
The Meganobz and small boy squads did not have enough attacks to kill the big blobs of 20 warriors off. They came back, and actually finished off my Meganobz in close combat, something that I did not expect!
My Biker boss bounced off his lord in CC, because the Mega Mek had the Killa Klaw. I don't think I'll be splitting out the killing power that much again.
The only effective thing in my army was the Kannonwagon, that manged to roll really well and wipe out the melee Destroyers turn 1!
I also made some game play mistakes, charging his big units, allowing him to pile in on an objective, which cost me a lot of VP in turn 2.
I think I could have won if I had had a better game plan and did not make as many mistakes, but boy I'm glad that he did not play a super competitive Necron list.
Still sounds like you had a good game, and kannonwagons really are amazing. I hope the gunwagon get boosted to their level.
As for the warboss vs lord thing, you always need to be warry when charging your combat monsters at 4++ characters. Rolling one or two successful rolls above average is not unlikely from a statistics point of view, but they can easily lead to that character surviving and hitting you with whatever nasty combat weapon or pistol they are sporting.
I have become much more aware of this since I play DG because my Typhus is infamous for rolling way above average on his invulnerable saves and regularly slaughtering character that totally should have killed him on average. This regularly costs my marine opponents their game - it doesn't matter if every one of your swings does 10 damage and you get to re-roll everything when I just have to roll four 4+ rolls to ignore you.
So while it is in the nature of orks to charge your biggest boss into the opponent's biggest boss - be aware that this is always gamble and that you might lose your warboss no matter how much more powerful it is than the enemy leader. The competitive was is to fight things that can't just get lucky and survive as easily and only toss your warboss against such characters when he is about to die anyways.
pepi55 wrote: Speaking of tankbustas... What is the go-to loadout for them? is it just a bunch of rokkit launcha bois or is there something specific that makes them good?
The only updrade worth taking is bomb squigs, which are pretty good and you can max them out if you have the chance. Full re-rolls against vehicles is what makes them good.
tneva82 wrote:This. Apart from bomb squigs only decision is klan. Bad moon would be ideal for shoot twice but just for sake of those isn't worth it and multi klan hit by CP change. Deathskull you can use the stratagem to reroll wounds which is fine but other than that just slap in bomb squigs, fire and prepare to lose them. They are pretty much one shot wonders unless they are in battlewagon and quite possibly then too.
So 5x bomb squigs for a small tankbusta team or is there some kind of balance?
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I am going out with one last WWAAAGGGGHH! before the new Codex hits. I'm taking this GT more seriously than the last one, which was the first out of COVID restrictions so I was really just using it to get a bunch of games in after a year of minimal gaming.
I do not have any tankbustas sadly, and I do not like the roflcoptas. Just as a heads up. Otherwise there would be two trukks full of tankbustas.
I wish you good luck. From my experience, you would find:
One flyer will be dead 50% before it do anything. One Burna Bommer do not kill anything. It is just scary and annoying. I kick them of my list and it was a big move forward.
Snazzwagoj is pretty useless imho.
Too many buggies. Too many vehicles with same speed, same range and big base = traffic jam.
No heavy long range fire. You need it. SMGs or Kannonwagons.
I don ´t see any benefit of beeing Evil Sunz. Simple switch to Deathskulls makes it much more dangerous.
I don ´ t see the plan for secondaries. You have just 2 infantry units and bigmek. How are you gonna score the secondary VPs?
Jidmah wrote: You can only have 2 squigs per 5 tank bustas - but yes, unless you need to fit them in a transport or run out of points, get as many as you can.
Oh, right okay. I got some spare boys with rokkit launchas so all thats left is getting my hands on some squigs for kitbashing... sounds like a fun project
Automatically Appended Next Post: Those Kannonwagons... Are they just battlewagons with the kannons on top? I cant seem to find anything on GW's or FW's webshop
Bonde wrote: So I played a game against a Necron Silver Tide list and really didn't get many VP. He had 50 Warriors w. Reapers, various support characters, Lord on disco boat, Ghost barge, 2x Doom Stalkers and 3-4 melee destroyers. He played the CC oriented Dynasty, to also make the warriors work in CC.
I had a boss on bike, KFF Mega Mek, 2 Battlewagons w. meganobz and boyz, 2 trukks w. shoota boyz, and a Kannonwagon.
I tried to push into the middle of the board and also into his deployment zone, but got stopped by all the warriors.
The Doom Stalker special rule that gives automatic overwatch is quite nasty
The Meganobz and small boy squads did not have enough attacks to kill the big blobs of 20 warriors off. They came back, and actually finished off my Meganobz in close combat, something that I did not expect!
My Biker boss bounced off his lord in CC, because the Mega Mek had the Killa Klaw. I don't think I'll be splitting out the killing power that much again.
The only effective thing in my army was the Kannonwagon, that manged to roll really well and wipe out the melee Destroyers turn 1!
I also made some game play mistakes, charging his big units, allowing him to pile in on an objective, which cost me a lot of VP in turn 2.
I think I could have won if I had had a better game plan and did not make as many mistakes, but boy I'm glad that he did not play a super competitive Necron list.
Still sounds like you had a good game, and kannonwagons really are amazing. I hope the gunwagon get boosted to their level.
As for the warboss vs lord thing, you always need to be warry when charging your combat monsters at 4++ characters. Rolling one or two successful rolls above average is not unlikely from a statistics point of view, but they can easily lead to that character surviving and hitting you with whatever nasty combat weapon or pistol they are sporting.
I have become much more aware of this since I play DG because my Typhus is infamous for rolling way above average on his invulnerable saves and regularly slaughtering character that totally should have killed him on average. This regularly costs my marine opponents their game - it doesn't matter if every one of your swings does 10 damage and you get to re-roll everything when I just have to roll four 4+ rolls to ignore you.
So while it is in the nature of orks to charge your biggest boss into the opponent's biggest boss - be aware that this is always gamble and that you might lose your warboss no matter how much more powerful it is than the enemy leader. The competitive was is to fight things that can't just get lucky and survive as easily and only toss your warboss against such characters when he is about to die anyways.
Yep! My Boss had brutal but cunning, but the +1 DMG from the WL trait did not make such a big difference since he saved against all my my charge attacks at 3 DMG (Killsaw). His Necron Lord then had the -1DMG relic, so my Boss was basically down to 1 DMG per attack after the first combat round. After swinging at each other for three full rounds, his lord killed my Warboss, who took the lord with him because of the Fight one last time after death stratagem.
In hindsight, I should have used my mobility to hit his more vulnerable units and then clear up the warriors and Lord afterwards instead of just charging straight into the 20 strong warrior units!
pepi55 wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: Those Kannonwagons... Are they just battlewagons with the kannons on top? I cant seem to find anything on GW's or FW's webshop
Thanks! those are all great. I was looking at the gloomspite gitz squig herd.
Im very tempted to try and kitbash a supa kannon myself, but thanks for the link to the actual product, I thought it would be an entire vehicle. Still useful as a reference for the kitbashing.
Smasha 'Ead im guessing is the leader's ability not the whole unit (i forget if squigriders are all nobs or not)
Its per model, if all of them did that holy crap thats a lot of mortals on the charge.
New bomb squig rule is pathetic. D3 is of course fickle and often doesnt do much, even if it is mortals and not wounds, but the bigger issue is the wording seems to block you from unloading all bombsquigs at once.
Also that squig shadow is 100% the chariot thing at the end of the article. Strange they called it a Squiggoth though...
Vineheart01 wrote: Smasha 'Ead im guessing is the leader's ability not the whole unit (i forget if squigriders are all nobs or not)
Its per model, if all of them did that holy crap thats a lot of mortals on the charge.
The smasha 'ead is a character model, probably elite.
wait I also dont get the bombsquig nerf? it sounds like this is only specific to overwatch and that you can still unload all squigs at once during normal shooting
So if bad moons keep shoot twice, you could activate two squigs per turn.
Honestly, this is not a nerf. Too much good gak is fly -- the fact that bomb squigs couldn't hit Jump Infantry, jet bikes, flying vehicles (you know.. wave serpents, raiders...), always sucked.
This also gets around invuls. If it's like 5 points, I think you take one.
The rule specifies "Once per turn....unit can release one", so even for bad moons shooting twice I don't think the second time they can release another squig.
Yeah they can target generic Fly units now but odds are you arent going to get to use more than 1 of them now, 2 if you actually fire overwatch with them (probably not a good idea)
If its cheap, like 5ppm or something, taking 1 is a no brainer but taking more than that is probably pointless.
We'll know more for sure though once we know wtf the Squigriders even do.
Vineheart01 wrote: Yeah they can target generic Fly units now but odds are you arent going to get to use more than 1 of them now, 2 if you actually fire overwatch with them (probably not a good idea)
If its cheap, like 5ppm or something, taking 1 is a no brainer but taking more than that is probably pointless.
We'll know more for sure though once we know wtf the Squigriders even do.
True. Given your TB are probably dead after they shoot, given they are also 12" away if they've shot a squig.
But yeah, this feels like it could be a nice buff.
There's always someone better out there to compare pictures of models to size. Is it me or is that painboss pretty short for a boss? I've long accepted we'll never get a big boss, but he looks nob size if that
Do love the other version of its claw though. Looks like something out of Portal. That head though is so bland... maybe I will keep the helmet on for once.
Vineheart01 wrote: Yeah they can target generic Fly units now but odds are you arent going to get to use more than 1 of them now, 2 if you actually fire overwatch with them (probably not a good idea)
If its cheap, like 5ppm or something, taking 1 is a no brainer but taking more than that is probably pointless.
We'll know more for sure though once we know wtf the Squigriders even do.
Honestly this isn’t a ballistic skill or a to hit roll… this is a special rule that should override the rules for overwatch which modifies to hit rolls. However spending a cp to overwatch really depends on the unit firing overwatch and since this is a new model I’m not even sure if tank bustas will still have access to bomb squigs.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I am going out with one last WWAAAGGGGHH! before the new Codex hits. I'm taking this GT more seriously than the last one, which was the first out of COVID restrictions so I was really just using it to get a bunch of games in after a year of minimal gaming.
I do not have any tankbustas sadly, and I do not like the roflcoptas. Just as a heads up. Otherwise there would be two trukks full of tankbustas.
I wish you good luck. From my experience, you would find:
One flyer will be dead 50% before it do anything. One Burna Bommer do not kill anything. It is just scary and annoying. I kick them of my list and it was a big move forward.
Snazzwagoj is pretty useless imho.
Too many buggies. Too many vehicles with same speed, same range and big base = traffic jam.
No heavy long range fire. You need it. SMGs or Kannonwagons.
I don ´t see any benefit of beeing Evil Sunz. Simple switch to Deathskulls makes it much more dangerous.
I don ´ t see the plan for secondaries. You have just 2 infantry units and bigmek. How are you gonna score the secondary VPs?
I normally don't think of myself as good but I think I can impart some wisdom here, which is why I am responding.
1) The burna bommer has done some serious damage if my opponent is not careful with their deployment. With all the aura abilities anymore, people like to bunch up and flyers can move within engagement range of enemy units. Which means I can sit my base in base to base contact with theirs for maximum explodey damage. The other side of it that I like isn't just the damage - but they tend to modify their deployment based on just the fact that I have the burna-bommer. Most people know what it does and will adjust accordingly - which means I am messing up their game plan from the get-go.
2) The snazzwagon is a cheap and annoying mortal wound bomb. It also has an innate -1 to hit it, can eat a dark lance for 1 cp, and as Evil Sunz it has a 14" base movement. I advance without penalty and with a +1 I am moving a minimum of 16". That's more than half of the 24" gap between deployment zones where I am blocking movement, shooting without any minuses, and just generally being a pain.
3) Definitely a thing that can happen. Being Evil Sunz partially helps with this - everything gets +2" of movement, +1" to advance and can advance and fire everything at no penalty because I don't have any heavy weapons. The main reason this happens I think, is that everyone thinks the buggies need to all run up at the same time... they don't. A good half of them are straight up dakka and I do not want them in combat. My goal is to flood the board and make it a car park for the enemy to get through. I can then counter-charge/continue racing around if I've bottled them.
4) Yep, no long range... but the boards are small now and everything I have moves really fast. I never have a problem being in range unless I make a mistake.
5) Evil Sunz is really underrated by a lot of people for most of the reasons I've already mentioned above. The extra movement can be big, I can dominate board control with it. I also can advance, fire and charge normally. I like to play a movement based game - so they fit my style.
6) Secondaries: This is the easiest to answer. You seem to think we have to have infantry to gain secondary points - definitely not the case my friend! Fitting into my movement based strategy, I take secondary's accordingly. Engage on All Fronts was always my go to - but I may swap it for Strangehold depending on the match up. I generally have the board control - so those are easy points. I then slot in the appropriate 2nd option depending on what I'm fighting from no mercy/purge enemy stuff. Sometimes I'll take from both depending on the match up. If I don't take from both, my third is generally super dependent on the match up. If I know for sure they'll castle, I can take investigate sites with the limited infantry I have. I can purge the witch against any psyker heavy lists, if the mission specific one is decent I can roll with it - very dependent on the match up with the third one.
Hopefully this is somewhat informative into my thinking/helpful in some way. Best of luck in your own WWaaaggghhs!
sorry but i don't get the negativity around squigbombs. First off OF COURSE it depends on the pointcost. but that is true for ALL things...
- it hits on 2/3+ in overwatch - 2/3+ for d3 mortal wounds IS WAY BETTER than 1 s8 ap-2 dmgd6 attack (even if this attack hits on a 2+) you will circumvent the wound roll and save roll. - it seems the squig is just a decorative model, so it may not take up space in the transport etc - it can hit flying units
all in all, me thinks the new rules are better than the old ones. what gets me the most is the "only once per turn" rule. once per activation would've been sufficent. so you could shoot and overwatch in the same turn.
btw... d3 mortals when overwatching on a 2+ is HUGE
I guess the benefit of old bomb squigs is the burst potential. Dropping down with a tankbusta unit, launching 2 or 3 squigs that hit on 2s with a re-roll, possibly getting you more shots than you started with.
Yeah the D6 damage was always swingy but for what, 10pts a pop to supplement a unit geared towards anti tank? It often felt worth it.
The new squigs? Well, you can only use one at a time, you get that 2+ against a vehicle and it's D3 wounds. And I believe it's on a cav unit correct? So it should be easier to get into range than bustas. Rather than a proper weapon it's now an okay tool to knock off a wound on a vehicle on the edge of carking it.
12 in alone is worth it. The 8in old bombsquig range sucked. Now I can deepstrike and mess things up. I like it more if it stays cheap. I hope it doesn’t count as a model for morale
gungo wrote: 12 in alone is worth it. The 8in old bombsquig range sucked. Now I can deepstrike and mess things up. I like it more if it stays cheap. I hope it doesn’t count as a model for morale
Isn't it 18" range? I'm fairly certain I've not been cheating with a Jump and squigbomb tactic.
The reason old bombsquig rule is awesome is it can be dumped all at once against something, the new one can only be launched 1 at a time.
Which is fine for random inclusion reasons, but bringing multiples when you cant use more than 1 is a waste of points most of the time.
Its not rendering them useless by any means, as theres also the added benefit of its D3 MORTALS instead of damage so it can potentially kill 3 1w models or get through a really annoying invul save. Its just not imo as good as dumping 4 at once against a medium vehicle and instagibbing it.
tneva82 wrote: This. Apart from bomb squigs only decision is klan. Bad moon would be ideal for shoot twice but just for sake of those isn't worth it and multi klan hit by CP change. Deathskull you can use the stratagem to reroll wounds which is fine but other than that just slap in bomb squigs, fire and prepare to lose them. They are pretty much one shot wonders unless they are in battlewagon and quite possibly then too.
if i understand you correctly, you say its not worth it to have tankbustas in a bad moon detatchment just to be able to fire twice? I disagree whole heartedly. surely it depends on the setup, and i wouldnt run an entire bad moon army just for this, but a patrol with bad moon to fit in 15 tankbustas isnt bad.
My best ork army, undefeated even is my Goff ghaz 90 skarboys army with a weird boy, kff big mek, painboy, 6 Mek Gunz, 15 kommandos, 10 grots and 15 tankbustas + 6 bomb squigs in a bad moon patrol, that i teleport forth in round 1, from a place they cant be reached (or deepstriked in if necessary, but it rarely is).
At first i made the army for fun, but the alpha strike is insane when da jumping them in with more dakka + showing off. If the enemy has vehicles, its not uncommon to remove at least 500 points worth of units from their army. Even if they dont, they still make back their own cost.
In any case, even without vehicles, they are still worth having. With vehicles however, you will destroy most of his vehicles by the time you da jump them forward. The fact you can throw in your bomb squigs at once and just see the enemy try and save what ever unit you just threw 6x D6s at is hillarious. specially because they hit on 2. The bomb squigs are amazing.
The new bomb squigs we've seen pictures of, however, leave much to be desired. but we'll have to see how else the rules revolving around bomb squigs and the rest of the rooster is. because right now the new bomb squigs that can only be fired once per turn, dealing MW, does not beat the fact im throwing out 6x D6 damage bomb squigs hitting on 2s with strength 8. Ive taken out magnus with those measly 60 points alone. being able to only fire one squig at once sucks, because tankbustas wont survive after their first volley.
Honestly Tankbustas will have a place for a while as long as Damage 3 is just such a sweet place. Cleaves through aggressor class, DG, vehicles and anything else that's worth shooting at. It'll be interesting to see how the good old bustas get changed up with the new book, I feel a basic re-roll may change into something more interesting, but possibly less reliable.
pepi55 wrote: yeah almost as if the models are no longer used? "reduced by one" sounds almost like a battlescribe uptick of the likes of super cybork body.
Wonder if reduced by 1 thing was to combat infinite bomb squigs inside trukk loophole
if i understand you correctly, you say its not worth it to have tankbustas in a bad moon detatchment just to be able to fire twice? I disagree whole heartedly. surely it depends on the setup, and i wouldnt run an entire bad moon army just for this, but a patrol with bad moon to fit in 15 tankbustas isnt bad.
Issue is you are paying easily over half a dozen CP for that. Orks aren't exactly in overabundance of CP's with green tide, fight twice's etc you want to use as well.
pepi55 wrote: yeah almost as if the models are no longer used? "reduced by one" sounds almost like a battlescribe uptick of the likes of super cybork body.
Wonder if reduced by 1 thing was to combat infinite bomb squigs inside trukk loophole
if i understand you correctly, you say its not worth it to have tankbustas in a bad moon detatchment just to be able to fire twice? I disagree whole heartedly. surely it depends on the setup, and i wouldnt run an entire bad moon army just for this, but a patrol with bad moon to fit in 15 tankbustas isnt bad.
Issue is you are paying easily over half a dozen CP for that. Orks aren't exactly in overabundance of CP's with green tide, fight twice's etc you want to use as well.
in 7 out of 10 of times (weird math, but ive had 7 battles with the army so far and maybe 2 cases only where tankbustas were meh, not bad but not super good either) ive done that, 2 cp for more dakka, 2 cp for showing off, its been well worth the cost, taking off 5-600 points of enemy models. You are right it is not as efficient against non vehicle units, but it still has the ability to turn things like magnus in to blueberry pie.
And ive already calculated that i have enough CP in my army for both green tide and fight twice for ghaz before he dies. since i rarely use get stuck in, and only sometimes use insane bravery if i have a single ork boy or so standing, then over all, my goff tide isnt very CP heavy in use. ive used insane bravery more than ive ever used get stuck in ladz, and to be fair, i never really use get stuck in ladz. I would need a total of 5 CP to pull off my basic stunts with greentide and orks is never beaten. +2 for the rare occation of insane bravery as well would be 7. I start with 7 CP, so when its my turn i have 8. -4 CP for showing off + more dakka leaves me at 4 CP turn 1. and since i dont expect Ghaz to die by turn 1 (and if he did, he probably wouldnt be in close combat anyway) i wouldnt use orks is never beaten there, so i just need the 3CP for greentide, just in case. meaning by turn 2 i can use orks is never beaten.
So im a bit more hindered on CP than i was before, by using mega nobz instead of tankbustas, but i still have the CP i need, which goes to show that ive never lost with the army. At least this way i will get off their value, which Mega Nobz dont always do. Theres also a much larger damage potential in Tankbustas.
I dont HAVE to shoot twice with tankbustas, its simply a possibility, like in a matchup where they might be useless (not that ive seen them be useless) it might not work out to shoot twice. If you are facing a massive horde army, naturally tankbustas will not be good. But i believe you can make out enemy armies that would be a pain to deal with to basically any given army you can put down. The tankbustas have downsides, they take CP, but i do have enough CP for the important things. And these guys, they wreck.
And even after they've shot what they need to shoot, they provide a 15 body wall the enemy has to deal with, because they can be allowed to leave tankbustas alone. so after they've done their thing, they still provide a sort of shield for the rest of my army as well.
Embarked tankbustas don't care about the new limitation though, just MSU them.
Take 2x5 with one bomb squig in a trukk instead of 10 with 2 bomb squigs.
For those who like bringing a trukk with 3 Meganobz I can see 5 TB + 1 bomb squig to join them as a cool option.
Tellyported/outflanked tankbustas will just take one bomb squig instead, maybe two if those get cheaper.
15 TB firing twice is a massive gamble. If there aren't enemy vehicles on the table those 315 points and 6 CPs may (plus the required HQ and troop for the additional patrol) not worth the investment. I prefer outflanking 10 TB + 4 bomb squigs and use more dakka on them. 210 points + 3 CPs and no useless HQ + troop patrol tax, but still lot of potential.
pepi55 wrote: yeah almost as if the models are no longer used? "reduced by one" sounds almost like a battlescribe uptick of the likes of super cybork body.
Wonder if reduced by 1 thing was to combat infinite bomb squigs inside trukk loophole
Considering how this new squig is no longer a ranged weapon, but a rule that requires you to measure to the unit, you probably can't use bomb squigs from transports at all.
gungo wrote: 12 in alone is worth it. The 8in old bombsquig range sucked. Now I can deepstrike and mess things up. I like it more if it stays cheap. I hope it doesn’t count as a model for morale
Isn't it 18" range? I'm fairly certain I've not been cheating with a Jump and squigbomb tactic.
You are right I was thinking 6in tankbusta bombs being a pain to get in range for…
As stated before you can fire multiple bomb squigs if you MSU instead of 1 large blob.
Clang wrote: What are the kit implications of the new bomb squig model? Are we finally getting a tankbusta squad kit, and it will include one or two bomb squigs?
I suspect that we will either be getting a plastic tankbustas kit, or they come with the squig riders kit. I'm erring towards the squig riders option, as they share similar design features in the mechanical parts on the squig and the grot (co)pilot.
Clang wrote: What are the kit implications of the new bomb squig model? Are we finally getting a tankbusta squad kit, and it will include one or two bomb squigs?
I suspect that we will either be getting a plastic tankbustas kit, or they come with the squig riders kit. I'm erring towards the squig riders option, as they share similar design features in the mechanical parts on the squig and the grot (co)pilot.
Rules-wise, making bomb squigs available to more units would be interesting.
Fluff-wise, I totally agree that squig riders should be allowed bomb squigs. Maybe other Snake Bites-ish units too, e.g. the new Snagga boyz?
Kit-wise, it's a pain, unless GW plan to add bomb squigs to multiple new kits.
Clang wrote: What are the kit implications of the new bomb squig model? Are we finally getting a tankbusta squad kit, and it will include one or two bomb squigs?
I suspect that we will either be getting a plastic tankbustas kit, or they come with the squig riders kit. I'm erring towards the squig riders option, as they share similar design features in the mechanical parts on the squig and the grot (co)pilot.
The squig rider kit has been confirmed to come with single squig bomb. In general, their lore is really close to tank bustas, so these might be the replacement. I might be wrong though.
So bloody keen for the preview on the weekend. And I know it's a bit of a stretch relivance wise, but while chatting with some mates we remembered this show.
2) The snazzwagon is a cheap and annoying mortal wound bomb. It also has an innate -1 to hit it, can eat a dark lance for 1 cp, and as Evil Sunz it has a 14" base movement. I advance without penalty and with a +1 I am moving a minimum of 16". That's more than half of the 24" gap between deployment zones where I am blocking movement, shooting without any minuses, and just generally being a pain.
Kustom Boosta-blastas also cause D3 mortal wounds on a 4+, and they don't have to explode to do it. They're also better or roughly the same at just about everything else it does except eating anti-tank shooting that, if your opponent has decided to throw it at a Snazzwagon while knowing Grot Bumper exists, probably only happens after all other valuable targets have been destroyed or are not available to be shot at.
I love that model, but the only ways I see it being justified in a list involve mental gymnastics.
2) The snazzwagon is a cheap and annoying mortal wound bomb. It also has an innate -1 to hit it, can eat a dark lance for 1 cp, and as Evil Sunz it has a 14" base movement. I advance without penalty and with a +1 I am moving a minimum of 16". That's more than half of the 24" gap between deployment zones where I am blocking movement, shooting without any minuses, and just generally being a pain.
Kustom Boosta-blastas also cause D3 mortal wounds on a 4+, and they don't have to explode to do it. They're also better or roughly the same at just about everything else it does except eating anti-tank shooting that, if your opponent has decided to throw it at a Snazzwagon while knowing Grot Bumper exists, probably only happens after all other valuable targets have been destroyed or are not available to be shot at.
I love that model, but the only ways I see it being justified in a list involve mental gymnastics.
My mental gymnastics = I have 2 of every buggy. So 'ERE WE GGOO. But I find the Snazzwagon to be better than bikers currently for about the same price.
The tournament is tomorrow - so I'll report on how they do. It's looking like a rough line up with the current armies I am seeing so should be a good test on how useless they are.
I wouldn't be surprised if tankbustas lost their bomb squigs, and they become exclusive to beast snaggas from now on. If they're available to multiple units that would be great though.
SemperMortis wrote: Saying an Ork unit is better than Warbikers as justification for taking it is...not a good argument
That's not really my argument - I just didn't feel like making the point, which why I said we'll see how they do in this very competitive GT I am going to.
I only mentioned it because as a themed Speed Freeks owner/player, it's my main alternative for a similar price since my Squigbuggies are so over-costed.
But new Codex inbound - excited to get one last huzzah out of the ol' dex before we get all the fancy new stuff.
cannot wait for the kill teams box, i have some dkok (to be fair i collect to many models so have a bit of it all) but looks liek i have a project to build and paint on my vacation at the end of the month (assumign out by then)
I'm just glad that with Plastic, you don't have to worry about the bended swords and lasguns barrels that plagued so many of the DKoK sculpts, having something sturdier to work with will definitely engender more people to buying them, alongside hopefully not costing as much as an arm an a leg to start.
Funny you say that since the new Killteam trailer shows Kommandoz vs DKoK and theres a bombsquig in there. Also a Burna, which they currently cant use either.
Kill Team hardly means anything for 40k but could easily be a plastic Kommando kit instead of a kill team specific random sprues stitched together.
Vineheart01 wrote: Funny you say that since the new Killteam trailer shows Kommandoz vs DKoK and theres a bombsquig in there. Also a Burna, which they currently cant use either.
Kill Team hardly means anything for 40k but could easily be a plastic Kommando kit instead of a kill team specific random sprues stitched together.
It could be a "mutli box" of Kommandos/Burnas/Tankbustas?
I think its still a Kommando box, simply for the fact that we did use to be able to take burnas in Kommando units, so they might just be reintroducing the weapon option in there. Bomb squigs also seem to be a new unit upgrade coming to newer kits.
Kommandos use to be able to take burnas and thier use to be a kommando w burna model…
To be fair I prefer kommando w burna then current burnas rules. Burnas special rules just don’t add anything meaningful for its overpriced cost… whereas burnas in kommando units fixes one of the burnas weakness short range weapons and melee power weapons needing a transport to get in range. Assuming burnas gain the new 12in range upgrade… this would finally fix my problem w burnas and make kommandos w burnas awesome.
I have a question about the stormboyz reserve /kommandos reserve/tellyporta strat: those units can deploy on the first turn (end of mvt phase), right ?
I don't see any mention of 1st turn restriction in the rulebook, except in the "strategic reserve" (which is a stratagem, not a general reserve rule).
XC18 wrote: I have a question about the stormboyz reserve /kommandos reserve/tellyporta strat: those units can deploy on the first turn (end of mvt phase), right ?
I don't see any mention of 1st turn restriction in the rulebook, except in the "strategic reserve" (which is a stratagem, not a general reserve rule).
No they can't. I can't remember off the top of my head where its stated, but at least in matched play, you cannot use deep strike abilities or stratagem on the first turn barring rules that explicitly allow you to do so like SM drop pods.
My thanks to those that have helped me out @SemperMortis!
In short Warboss Boss on Warbike w/ KillaKlaw. 3 groups of (10 or so) boys with Nobz, and three Smasha Gunz. Was going to mix the boys with mostly Slugga/Choppa and some Shootas.
Was originally thinking Death Skulls, as I have no protection (KFF), but am considering Evil Sunz to help me move across the table an charges. Or am I overlooking something else I should consider.
Crazy huge release, but I must point out that we will be losing the vanilla KFF Mek again, unless GW decides to include the datasheet in the codex without a model.
Yeah, that is something I noticed as well, not sure if they have some multi-build HQ that also creates the Big Mek with KFF. It really is an amazing release, I don't think Orks have gotten this much love in terms of models in a LONG time. This is the Orktober we were expecting way back and then some! DKoK and Black Templars to go along with this is just icing on the cake.
I don't know if we will lose the datasheet for the KFF mek. They only gave us back the rules (relatively) recently, models for meks exist, there are plenty of KFF's available across the range, and there are plenty of gubbins to just make some from scratch. Orks have always seemed to be the faction that was kind of the exception to "no model no rules" because of how versatile the range is.
I must say I'm not too keen on the Kill Rig/Hunta Rig. Everything else in the previews looks fantastic though. I can't wait to start seeing some rules.
Didja notice the middle deffkopta though? Armed with a KMB and Bigbomm. We may be getting our options back.
Side note, anyone wanna get the new ork terrain even though we all know it's likley to be bad. Though, all those speakers, and they did show it off with a boss inside. Am I being too hopeful in saying it could let use use auras from it?
Koptas are back from the dead, and yes with some new weapon options - here's hoping the rules/points make them worthwhile.
And a new Boyz kit, equipped with pretty much the same gear as the old kit :( so it's anyone's guess what that means rules-wise, other than surely GW will give us a rules reason to buy the new kit.
The Kill/Hunta Rig just looks wrong IMHO, although happily should be fairly easily convertible into an all-mechanical version for those preferring a squig-less army. Rules-wise? At a guess it has some decent close combat skills, perhaps a devastating charge or similar? And a big short-ranged gun, although apparently no transport capacity.
And hopefully GW have worked out that we'll only buy ork terrain like the new Bossbunka if it comes with useful rules...
I'm absolutely looking forward to all these new releases, I think they have smashed it out of the park with the new kits with the great white squig being my personal favourite. Is it just me or does Mozrog have a definite Cowboy vibe to him, kind of like a Clint EastOrk ? Be interested to see if he is a snakebite named character of it he can be taken in any clan...
Have to agree I hate that Kill rig. it looks like a toy I remember seeing as a child but for the life of me I can't recall which franchise it was from.
It looks so bad it makes the stompa look that much better.
MrStressy wrote: I'm absolutely looking forward to all these new releases, I think they have smashed it out of the park with the new kits with the great white squig being my personal favourite. Is it just me or does Mozrog have a definite Cowboy vibe to him, kind of like a Clint EastOrk ? Be interested to see if he is a snakebite named character of it he can be taken in any clan...
Given the emphasis on squigs and "old ways are best" vibes with Beast Snaggas, I wouldn't be surprised if they're one of the traits that get the biggest revamp.
Yup, Snakebites will get some stupidly good trait (or the new Snakebites-only models will get stupidly good rules), coz GW needs to sell all them new kits. Then a year later, that will be nerfed... :(
Automatically Appended Next Post: The new kommandos are interesting too. A bomb squig as somewhat expected, but also a 'kommando grot' with some sort of grappling hook, and boys with 'breacher' weapons and other new gear. Doesn't look like a dual-build kit.
XC18 wrote: I have a question about the stormboyz reserve /kommandos reserve/tellyporta strat: those units can deploy on the first turn (end of mvt phase), right ?
I don't see any mention of 1st turn restriction in the rulebook, except in the "strategic reserve" (which is a stratagem, not a general reserve rule).
No they can't. I can't remember off the top of my head where its stated, but at least in matched play, you cannot use deep strike abilities or stratagem on the first turn barring rules that explicitly allow you to do so like SM drop pods.
Grimskul wrote: Given the emphasis on squigs and "old ways are best" vibes with Beast Snaggas, I wouldn't be surprised if they're one of the traits that get the biggest revamp.
I hope so! They've always been my favorite clan in the lore!
Comments hit all my thoughts on head.
Where’s the big Mek w kff?
The hunter rig/chariot is meh…
The great white beast rider is named snakebite so won’t see the table unless major changes!
And this is a massive release!
So our only resin kit left are snikrot zagstruk grotsnik and tankbustas?
How they don’t squat the big Mek w kff or any of the other resin models.
Very pleased with the size of this release overall I’m excited and have lots to purchase…
Snakebites has a generic trait, possibly lackluster, but Beast Snaggas get doubledipping duty.
Though i'd be surprised if snakebites remain just a 6+++. Given how loud the comments were that its totally worthless lol
All I've heard so far for rumors is that snakebikes get the perma transhuman. It would make sense considering its been a pretty common trend so far (SM strat, DA, Admech lucius WLT, DE coven, and sisters strat).
my biggest fear so far is transport restrictions cause of keywords, meaning the snagga guyz wont be able embark on normal transports and boyz cant embark on the slide...
for me... that would feth up this new codex and all the nice releases BIG TIME
Even if you don't want to splurge on the limited edition box i'm fairly certain that it'll be copied/piced to heck and back in a day or so. Hell I'd happily pass along any pages anyone wanted. Cause orks are the only army i'd bother to get the spec editions of.
Well, I' m not a fan of Sneakebites and all of this AOS vibe in 40K… but…. Then I found, all this dyno stuff can be repleaced with AdMech components - kick out the white shark and use the Ballistarius type of feets!!!
Most of the stuff is ok, but doesn't hype me. The only models I'm not too fond of are the sled and the beast boss on foot, both kind of look like 80s action toys.
Luckily, the best wife in the world got me a gargantuan squiggoth for my birthday, so if the sleds get awesome rules, all I need to do is put the proper armament on the howdah and run it as counts-as.
I think all the upcoming orks, including those that were previously showed like the snaggas, are godawful except Kommandos and Deffkoptas, which I consider awesome. I don't mind Boyz but there needs to be a chance of building 30 models with the same loadout that look reasonably unique to convince me.
The huge thing on oval base is definitely one of the worst looking models ever produced by GW.
I hope already existing units are going to be ok in the new codex as no way I'm gonna buy the new stuff.
Snakebites has a generic trait, possibly lackluster, but Beast Snaggas get doubledipping duty.
Though i'd be surprised if snakebites remain just a 6+++. Given how loud the comments were that its totally worthless lol
All I've heard so far for rumors is that snakebikes get the perma transhuman. It would make sense considering its been a pretty common trend so far (SM strat, DA, Admech lucius WLT, DE coven, and sisters strat).
I think that would be logic as Snaggas rush vehicles and T5 is not enough
Anyways, Snaggas will be more expensive thna normal. boyz and Im not sure it will be worth the points for a 6++
The fear for transport rules is legit since GW did that to marines and it caused all sorts of headaches and angry marine players.
The one hope we have is they didnt reveal anything that could be a transport. The Kill Rig looks to just be a gun boat or a Wurrboy tower.
Vineheart01 wrote: The fear for transport rules is legit since GW did that to marines and it caused all sorts of headaches and angry marine players.
The one hope we have is they didnt reveal anything that could be a transport. The Kill Rig looks to just be a gun boat or a Wurrboy tower.
they said in the preview, the boat can be used as a transport (no wurrboy on top but a harpoon style missle and no gun on front) and that it fits 15 "beast-snaggas" :/
To me it appears that on the Hunta Rig the flat space above the Beastie could be used for transport capacity. Suspect this as the Killa Rig model has a gun placement in the same place while nothing is here for the Hunta Rig.
Using GW spatial calculations (as observed from Battlewagons, Gorkanaut, Trukk, etc.) would estimate a transport capacity of at least 10.
As RedNoak said, they confirmed the harpoon sled to be a transport for 15 beast snaggas. Let's hope this doesn't mean that beast snaggas can't ride regular transports.
Jidmah wrote: The box also was announced to be on pre-order next Saturday, so we will have our new codex in two weeks.
So much for "orktober" releases.
But i really hate that only beastsnaggas can ride those rigs. I think all the models look pretty cool, and i like the rig as well. Its just greed, i would assume, is the reason for why only beast snaggas can ride those rigs.
Keep in mind that Warhammer Community has been wrong on these kind of things as often as they were right, so let's not cry about the sky falling just yet.
Jidmah wrote: Keep in mind that Warhammer Community has been wrong on these kind of things as often as they were right, so let's not cry about the sky falling just yet.
but i fail to see how they would implement that. I mean if they say, that only beast snaggas can ride the rigs, would they make a work around for normal boys to be able to ride it? DOnt get me wrong i remain hopeful, and regardless, the new miniatures, i really like them. but i really dont hope they pull some gak like what they pulled with the space marines with sudden transports not being able to transport specific types of space marines, just because
Snakebites has a generic trait, possibly lackluster, but Beast Snaggas get doubledipping duty.
Though i'd be surprised if snakebites remain just a 6+++. Given how loud the comments were that its totally worthless lol
All I've heard so far for rumors is that snakebikes get the perma transhuman. It would make sense considering its been a pretty common trend so far (SM strat, DA, Admech lucius WLT, DE coven, and sisters strat).
They get perma transhuman against strengh 7 or less. My source is fairly reliable but not 100% so take this with a rather small amount of salt
Snakebites has a generic trait, possibly lackluster, but Beast Snaggas get doubledipping duty.
Though i'd be surprised if snakebites remain just a 6+++. Given how loud the comments were that its totally worthless lol
All I've heard so far for rumors is that snakebikes get the perma transhuman. It would make sense considering its been a pretty common trend so far (SM strat, DA, Admech lucius WLT, DE coven, and sisters strat).
They get perma transhuman against strengh 7 or less. My source is fairly reliable but not 100% so take this with a rather small amount of salt
If it turns out to be true, that would be fething insane. permanent transhuman for snakebites? So even armies shooting out a ton of shots with +1 to wound wouldnt mean gak as they always only ever wound on 4s? I should start snakebiti-fy my ork army..
Strengh 8 and 9 etc . would still wound on 3s since tougness 5 (2s with a +1 mod)
My fear, (if snakebite strengh 7 transhuman is true) is that boyz (regardless of their klan) will end up at 10 points per model.
Perhaps it will be a transhuman that doesn't work on "to wound modifiers". I have no info on this (but it would be weird as no trasnhuman rule so far has excluded "to wound modifiers"
Wouldn't it be like the current flashgitz? where transports can carry up to x Flash Gitz or boys? I feel like the snaggas will be another kind of unit where it can be taken into detachments of different klanz without preventing the detachment getting benefits but they wont gain any unless its a snakebites detachment
Automatically Appended Next Post: That being said I didnt really look at the rules yet... I kinda rely on this thread for any news
pepi55 wrote: Wouldn't it be like the current flashgitz? where transports can carry up to x Flash Gitz or boys? I feel like the snaggas will be another kind of unit where it can be taken into detachments of different klanz without preventing the detachment getting benefits but they wont gain any unless its a snakebites detachment
Automatically Appended Next Post: That being said I didnt really look at the rules yet... I kinda rely on this thread for any news
They will be more like speed freeks, so you will have goff beast snaggas, deffskulls beastsnaggas, snakebite beastsnaggas and so on. It's just likely that snakebites get something like "BEAST SNAGGA INFANTRY and BEASTS get 5+ FNP instead of 6+"
pepi55 wrote: Wouldn't it be like the current flashgitz? where transports can carry up to x Flash Gitz or boys? I feel like the snaggas will be another kind of unit where it can be taken into detachments of different klanz without preventing the detachment getting benefits but they wont gain any unless its a snakebites detachment
Automatically Appended Next Post: That being said I didnt really look at the rules yet... I kinda rely on this thread for any news
They will be more like speed freeks, so you will have goff beast snaggas, deffskulls beastsnaggas, snakebite beastsnaggas and so on. It's just likely that snakebites get something like "BEAST SNAGGA INFANTRY and BEASTS get 5+ FNP instead of 6+"
Well,, whatever it is, im pretty hype for the new codex if any of the last ones are an indication of the overall balance (I understand that most if not all units are balanced to be playable for other factions).
addnid wrote: Strengh 8 and 9 etc . would still wound on 3s since tougness 5 (2s with a +1 mod)
My fear, (if snakebite strengh 7 transhuman is true) is that boyz (regardless of their klan) will end up at 10 points per model.
Perhaps it will be a transhuman that doesn't work on "to wound modifiers". I have no info on this (but it would be weird as no trasnhuman rule so far has excluded "to wound modifiers"
sure. but attacking snakebite boys with strength 8 weapons is a terrible choice of targets
addnid wrote: Strengh 8 and 9 etc . would still wound on 3s since tougness 5 (2s with a +1 mod)
My fear, (if snakebite strengh 7 transhuman is true) is that boyz (regardless of their klan) will end up at 10 points per model.
Perhaps it will be a transhuman that doesn't work on "to wound modifiers". I have no info on this (but it would be weird as no trasnhuman rule so far has excluded "to wound modifiers"
sure. but attacking snakebite boys with strength 8 weapons is a terrible choice of targets
Nothing will be really good to shoot at snakebites, aside from s5 weapons (not that common for now). A good argument for expensive (PPModel wise) boyz :(
addnid wrote: Strengh 8 and 9 etc . would still wound on 3s since tougness 5 (2s with a +1 mod)
My fear, (if snakebite strengh 7 transhuman is true) is that boyz (regardless of their klan) will end up at 10 points per model.
Perhaps it will be a transhuman that doesn't work on "to wound modifiers". I have no info on this (but it would be weird as no trasnhuman rule so far has excluded "to wound modifiers"
sure. but attacking snakebite boys with strength 8 weapons is a terrible choice of targets
Nothing will be really good to shoot at snakebites, aside from s5 weapons (not that common for now). A good argument for expensive (PPModel wise) boyz :(
but if only snakebites gets this transhuman stuff then every other boy type will just be over priced :( I guess we will have to see.
But yea i hope that maybe there can be some sort of WAAAGH! mechanic. Maybe something we can toggle on at the start of a round or something. Im really looking forward to the codex. But im also slightly sad as i just made an army composition that i have not lost with at all. And i wanted to see how far i could take it! the new codex will probably be out before the next tournement i can attend.
That S7 transhuman sound rather terrbile to me. It never affects anything but S6 and S7 weapons, so if your opponent has none of those, your trait simply does nothing.
It would also affect strength 5 weapons getting a +1 to wound since that wouldnt be possible.
but i keep forgetting we're getting toughness 5. that makes perma transhuman a little less efficient, yet i would think maybe its still decent. And if its a snakebites clan rule, maybe... maybe not only your boys would receive this? Mega Nobz maybe would too, and vehicles?
Yeah, but how common are those +1 to wound buffs really?
Most of them are attached to a stratagem, so essentially you just telling your opponent to not use a stratagem. Still a bad deal.
cody.d. wrote: Even if you don't want to splurge on the limited edition box i'm fairly certain that it'll be copied/piced to heck and back in a day or so. Hell I'd happily pass along any pages anyone wanted. Cause orks are the only army i'd bother to get the spec editions of.
assuming i can get it early (usually i get things a few days before release date) and that I don't have any familial obligations or work obligations i am hoping to have points in up asap or at least some of the more interesting bits and rules so people can plan lists accordingly.
I do like a lot of the new models but snakebites have not really been my jam. I play orks and do lots of looted and cyborg bits on models. (heck i am currently making a cyborg enhanced Tyranid army) I am looking t these new kits and hoping its not too difficult to bypass the savage primordial ork look and lean more into tech. like maybe a dreadnaught armor over the mega warboss and no fur cloak or dragon skirt
Hey guys - thought I would give a report on my last hoorah with the old Codex before we get our new one in the GT I played over the weekend.
I went 2-5 and ended in 15th place out of 30 or so people. So solidly in the middle. The main secondaries I rolled with were bring it down, and some mix of whatever felt Orky - usually assassinate/thin ranks/bring it down as it fit into the match. Though my w/l ratio isn't great, I ended up with mostly close games in my losses except the final game on the first day which I'll talk about more below. My main take away was, to be frank, that we need our new dex. I mostly played people who had their new Codex's and my god was there a distinct difference in the stuff they could do vs what I could do. The theme of my games tended to be that they were really close - but if I won I was brutalizing my opponents. Except for that third game... but as said, will get to that.
Games:
Spoiler:
First game - Space Wolves/Raven Guard vs Evil Sunz: My first game was against Space Wolves with a small smattering of Raven Guard support. 3 Dread list. I underestimated it and he went first - and honestly to sum it up quickly I mainly lost this game due to my own negligence. I did not stick to my game plan of maximizing terrain/hiding the buggies and I immediately lost my two scrap jets on my right flank. The final score of 52/97 doesn't really show how close it actually felt while playing. That initial hit due to my own stupidity messed up my secondary scoring but I was whittling him down pretty well, just could not do it quick enough to score.
Second game - Necrons vs Evil Sunz: My second game I can also summarize pretty quickly, as I ended up brutalizing this poor Necron player. He brought 2 C'tans and a ton of necron warriors, a barge and 2 chronomancers. He got first turn (a running theme in almost every game I played). He moved up but stayed balled up even though I personally warned him about the Burna Bommer. He did a smattering of shooting but just took my buggies down in wounds and didn't kill anything. His strategy seemed to be to swamp the board. My turn one I flew the bomber into a C'Tan that wasn't the void dragon. Bombed the big warrior squad and killed 8 warriors, and brought 3+ characters down in wounds. Since I did that on the left flank - I just ran everything over towards that side except the Snazzwagons to be a distraction. I annihilated his Warrior squad with all the big shootas I brought - then charged in. biggest boss warbike + ramming speed + Scrap jets + ramming did more mortal wounds to the characters and the C'Tan and then the warboss on bike annihilated the C'tan. His barge survived on like, 2 wounds but I had really smashed his flank. From there - the Void dragon was a bit of a pain but I killed him eventually and just cleaned up the rest of the warriors turn by turn. Though I won this game handily - I could see the power of the new dex's from the first game and this one as they just had more stuff to do to make their army tankier/better. Whereas I just relied on the mediocre upgrades my buggies could get. I ended up winning this one with a final score of 82/47.
Third game: Drukhari vs Evil Sunz: This game... this zogging game guys. Pretty standard drukahri list. Barges with dark lances, some chronos, hellions, and wyches (along with some special character witch?) instead of whatever the regular troops are called. Some blaster dudes in some of the boats - and Draz'ar and incubi as well. I really decided to try this game - so I maximized my deployment using the terrain - placed my KFF perfectly. He got first turn - I spent 3 of my 4 CP to extend my KFF. He brought out all his bunched up boats and kept them bunched up - and did his opening dark lance salvo. He killed one dragsta and that was it. I felt really good about that. Rushed the bomber in, blew it up on his boats - mortal wounded every single boat. Flew up the board - killed two of his boats and dakka'd down some of the guys that popped out. Bonebreaka w/ Forktress defrollad some guys that popped out to get it up the board. His next turn - he honestly didn't kill too much. Draza'r popped out with incubi and killed a buggy. He got my other dragsta down to a 2 wounds, other than that was going OK. My next turn I big shoota'd the incubi to death (the snazzwagons did some real work on them). Shot a boat down - Then my warboss and a scrapjet literally ran over drazar in the charge phase with ramming speed and the drill mortal wounds. Bonebreaka charged the two remaining boats and killed another. And then.... suddenly I was dying left and right. I charged the chronos with a bonebreaker thinking he couldn't possibly get lucky enough to kill it. I even tried to use the you can't see me, can't overwatch rule but didn't roll high enough to get out of LOS to do it so had to attempt it. He rolled triple 6's on the DAMAGE 2 ZOGGIN FLAMERS WITH +1 TO WOUND?! So he just... popped it like it was paper. Then his turn he killed my remaining bonebreaka with all the blasters popping out of the dead boats, some crazy lady wych character killed my big boss because he got to reroll all attacks for saves I made - which was most of them, then I failed the second batch. And he was just picking off my buggies here and there - annihilated my boyz. I retaliated by killing the final boat, killed some wyches - but the chronos were coming up my now exposed flank from the dead bonebreaka. From there he just sort of mopped me up and scored a ton of points. As an opponent, I SUPER enjoyed playing him and we even became FB friends but we both agreed that I played it really well but there was just nothing I could do due to the Codex creep. He just had more stuff and was undercosted compared to me (least that's how it felt) so even though I was killing stuff. Like that lady who killed my warbiker boss being 75 or so points compared to 115 for my boss - and deadly gak would still pop out and take me out in retaliation when I popped stuff. The +1 to wound really hurt me. He had as much stuff in his death pile as me but was still swarming the board. It was insane.
Fourth game: Super, SUPER close game with a Chaos Iron Warriors player. 3 Decimators + 3 Defilers. I lost by 10 points, 80 to 90. Probably the best game I had of the tournament game wise. I only lost the game because I got cocky and let a solitary cultist survive.... I thought him using 4 CP to do it would block him from doing other stuff and swing the game that was in my favor then, solidly in it... but he brought them back and put behind me to score points and I couldn't turn around to get them. I had to focus on the stuff killing me. I also learned a lot about decimators... the 2+ mortal wounds really messed my day up but they became my priority and I killed them all, and his 3 defilers. All he had left was cultists. Underestimated their scoring ability. :( shoulda finished that one cultist off...
Fifth game: Not much to report here. My initial opponent dropped for some reason so they bumped the guy from the last table up to play me. He had an not greatly optimized White Scars list.... I beat him 100/17. Got first turn, mortal wound bombed a ton of his stuff and just rolled super hot and steam rolled him. I was honestly apologizing by the end of it because I felt bad but he said he had a lot of fun playing with me and learned a lot so that was nice.
All in all, I think I did really well all things considered and a great/fun way to say goodbye to the old Codex. Excited to see all the new stuff we'll get based on what I saw everyone has!
stat line for hog boys and minimum size squad of 10 for snagga boys.
if im not wrong according to the info it says htere will be more info tomorrow
I squighog boyz are tougher than I expected, but I was thinking they would have 4 wounds. Toughness 6 with 3 wounds a 4+ save sounds fun to me though. I can't wait to get these guys on the field and get stuck in with em!
stat line for hog boys and minimum size squad of 10 for snagga boys.
if im not wrong according to the info it says htere will be more info tomorrow
I squighog boyz are tougher than I expected, but I was thinking they would have 4 wounds. Toughness 6 with 3 wounds a 4+ save sounds fun to me though. I can't wait to get these guys on the field and get stuck in with em!
That isn't far off from what the buggies are honestly. As a squad, they're the same as the Scrapjet. So the scrapjet will have to get bumped up a little? I am hoping for ramshackle on everything.
Jidmah wrote: That S7 transhuman sound rather terrbile to me. It never affects anything but S6 and S7 weapons, so if your opponent has none of those, your trait simply does nothing.
If they have +1 to wound on strength 5,6 and 7 it does. Perhaps The Who,e durability paradigm for orks is changing. Also KFF no longer provides 5++ I was told, but I find that rumor hard to believe, as kff giving 5++ has been around for ages
Jidmah wrote: That S7 transhuman sound rather terrbile to me. It never affects anything but S6 and S7 weapons, so if your opponent has none of those, your trait simply does nothing.
If they have +1 to wound on strength 5,6 and 7 it does. Perhaps The Who,e durability paradigm for orks is changing. Also KFF no longer provides 5++ I was told, but I find that rumor hard to believe, as kff giving 5++ has been around for ages
Did they say what it DOES do? Cause a force field not providing a.... force field... seems like a weird concept. But we're Orks! So it could be something really interesting.
i wouldnt call since 7th edition "ages" but definitely been awhile.
It was a cover save before that. Which in the current cover rules....thats a pretty terrible benefit if they revert KFF back to that.
I hope to Gork it doesn't change back to cover. Cover is pretty garbage for a relatively low save army like us, even for our more armoured units like Battlewagons, having a 3+ save is pretty much the same or worse than a 5++ save against most anti-tank weapons.
The KFF would have to be something similar to a Shadowseer's aura of -1 to wound to be good enough to compare getting an invuln, and that's assuming it covers all friendly units with the "Ork" keyword, and I would much prefer a simple invuln. save over finicky things like that.
A -1 to wound would honestly have helped solve a lot of the Drukhari shenanigans I was facing at my tournament over the weekend. Guess there's no point in hyping myself up... we'll find out soon enough.
but -1 to hit for buggys, trukks and squigs wouldnt be THAT bad... especially for deathskulls and snaggaz, since they already have a 6++
and if the vehicles get ramshackle... thats -1 to hit on top of a 6++ followed by a 6+++(+ ? i dont know how to write the ramshackle thingy xD)
thats pretty neat, lots of chances to deny damage
light cover would be worthless, yes.
EDIT:
soooo... toughness 6 bikes all but confirmed? puts buggys and trukks in a weird spot... should be T7... or T6 with ramshakle?
idk... but if a damn raider got T6 on top of an 5++ ork stuff should be sturdier :/
Vineheart01 wrote: i wouldnt call since 7th edition "ages" but definitely been awhile.
It was a cover save before that. Which in the current cover rules....thats a pretty terrible benefit if they revert KFF back to that.
With the current rules yeah, it'd be terrible. KFF giving cover save was huge in 5th since it was a flat solid 4+ for vehicles, which used to have no save at all, but terrible in 3rd as a vehicle in cover only got -1 on the damage table as bonus for being in cover. Now with dense cover being very common and light cover giving only +1 save in an era of spam of high AP weapons and AP not being "all or nothing" like in past getting an invuln is certainly much better than a cover save.
Jidmah wrote: Is it just me, or is anyone else disappointed by the squigrider's stats?
Depending on how good the rokkit spears are, they just seem to be side-grades to nob bikers.
They might have special abilities to differentiate from nob bikers. All ork buggies seem the same thing by looking at stats and stats only, but their tactics and style of playing are different.
Jidmah wrote: Is it just me, or is anyone else disappointed by the squigrider's stats?
Depending on how good the rokkit spears are, they just seem to be side-grades to nob bikers.
They might have special abilities to differentiate from nob bikers. All ork buggies seem the same thing by looking at stats and stats only, but their tactics and style of playing are different.
Yeah, I assume they have mortal wound output when they finish a charge, and we haven't seen the potential squig profile for the additional attacks. Stratagem support will also dictate how much stronger they are over Nob Bikerz, since there's likely to be at least one or two Beast Snagga keyword based ones.
I wonder if this means that the Warboss' WAAAGH! aura rules are going to change? Doesn't look too bad though, since you get to time it when you want and so we get to time the optimal turn for getting most of extra attacks and AP. That AP is going to be a big one for buggy lists. Moving from AP-2 to AP-3 for rokkit kannons is pretty sweet, as is for kannonwagons.
That's how ork bikers are getting their AP-1, as I expected. Same for big shootas.
Although I doubt they'll also come with a native AP-1 on their guns, AP-2 would be crazy as they'll also get T6 and AP-1 in combat since they have choppas.
Well. we dont know the rules of the squig hog boys yet. There will most likely be an attack from the squig itself and maybe some +strength on charge who knows.
But unlike the nob bikers, there will most definitely be attacks from the squigs
I hope this doesn't mean losing the move advance and charge for bikers and buggies cause that is my preffered narrative lists just bikes and buggies for my speed waagh and its a pretty weak list (mostly because of the bikers) as it is
G00fySmiley wrote: I hope this doesn't mean losing the move advance and charge for bikers and buggies cause that is my preffered narrative lists just bikes and buggies for my speed waagh and its a pretty weak list (mostly because of the bikers) as it is
I too am curious if Wartrikes still provide that bonus, as that would otherwise heavily scar every mobile melee-unit from Bonebreakas to Nob bikers. I think it will remain as a stratagem at least.
im actually surprised, Waaagh! is going back to the once per game thing instead of becoming our 'new generic rule that changes per turn'
Which is kinda annoying, thats gonna slow orks down a ton since now its only once per game instead of every turn the boss is around (but at least its army wide not a 6" aura)
Also as it is right now yeah looks like buggies and wagons wont be able to adv+charge unless for some reason the speedboss doesnt lose his aura.
Now that I think of it I wonder if vehicle adv+charge will be reserved for Evil Sunz (klan or warlord trait), finally giving them a proper niche. They’ll def lose their shooting bonus so they are surely going to get something nice in return.
Vineheart01 wrote: im actually surprised, Waaagh! is going back to the once per game thing instead of becoming our 'new generic rule that changes per turn'
Which is kinda annoying, thats gonna slow orks down a ton since now its only once per game instead of every turn the boss is around (but at least its army wide not a 6" aura)
Also as it is right now yeah looks like buggies and wagons wont be able to adv+charge unless for some reason the speedboss doesnt lose his aura.
There may still be an aura or WL trait, hopefully. Army wide and not an aura (so avoiding all the aura interactions in 9th) is pretty great though.
hmm looks like the usual doom-n-gloom rumor mill "leaks" is going around now. Discord chat im apart of is flipping out over supposed "leaks" of kff going to 6++, DDD going away completely, Ramshackle being -1d for S7 or less weapons, and nauts being LoW. Why? Because it "predicted the kill rig having 2 variants" - man i wish people would ignore these rumor mills, theyre always horridly wrong or leave out whats taking its place. Such changes at face value would completely butcher orks, theyre not going to release THIS MASSIVE of a model range and then make the army pathetic beyond pathetic.
Vineheart01 wrote: im actually surprised, Waaagh! is going back to the once per game thing instead of becoming our 'new generic rule that changes per turn'
Which is kinda annoying, thats gonna slow orks down a ton since now its only once per game instead of every turn the boss is around (but at least its army wide not a 6" aura)
Also as it is right now yeah looks like buggies and wagons wont be able to adv+charge unless for some reason the speedboss doesnt lose his aura.
There may still be an aura or WL trait, hopefully. Army wide and not an aura (so avoiding all the aura interactions in 9th) is pretty great though.
It does raise some interesting potential on the upside, for deep striking units, Kommandos, stormboyz, etc getting +1 attack while outside of aura range. If Da Jump is still a thing, that as well.
I really don't like the speed waaagh apart from being from Ghazghkull's combo waaagh.
I feel like the army is going to be even slower. I really intensely dislike the 5" base movement speed.
6++ KFF i have heard of too (european source). I think sadly that if such a rumor exists both in the US and in Europe, we might be indeed getting a 6++ KFF.
Perhaps there will be a super KFF relic giving more ? We will see.
So far I am nor pleased nor displeased, we still have nearly 0 info really aside from a few rules and statlines.
LoW nauts is not a problem if they are vastly improved. Currently they are crap as heavy support choice.
addnid wrote: 6++ KFF i have heard of too (european source). I think sadly that if such a rumor exists both in the US and in Europe, we might be indeed getting a 6++ KFF. Perhaps there will be a super KFF relic giving more ? We will see. So far I am nor pleased nor displeased, we still have nearly 0 info really aside from a few rules and statlines.
LoW nauts is not a problem if they are vastly improved. Currently they are crap as heavy support choice.
i use a morkanaut in almost every single list, i love that thing. If it went to LoW i'd be super pissed. Not only because now i gotta burn a CP to use it but also now it loses kultures because they still have not fixed that part of the LoW issue (aux superheavies do not benefit from army rules per the detachment itself)
Also, that would mean i now have 7 LoW's not counting my gargant lol. More stuff to just sit on the shelf waiting for Apoc games because theyre impossible to use in normal games. (Stompa, 2 Killtanks, Battlefortress, GargSquiggoth, and if they move also 1 Mork and 1 Gork)
I'm not sure where the source of these rumors came from, its some post that got screen-capped shared in a patreon discord. Not necessarily a US rumor.
I'm thinking and hoping bosses still get their natural auras.
Also helps answer why you'd ever keep your boss back in thst fortification lol.
The only thing I'm not too happy about is unless the painboss and bigmek get warboss keyword as well, were limited on what to bring. For speedwaugh our only non-fw option is defftrike unless they give it to the squigrider hqs as well...
Dakka gun is a new term they probably added it to most weapons. I'd guess its on any bullet-based assault weapon and maybe the Gork's gun too. i'd be surprised if rokkits, kmbs, or any heavy weapons other than the Gork's gun getting it.
Which does pose an annoying issue...FW is kinda random on whether it updates to add stuff like this so theres a chance stuff from FW wont benefit from the Waaagh!'s at all (none of them make sense to be core either except Bikernobz)
I hope that 6+ invuln KFF nonsense isn't real, though that would help manage the whole Big Mek with KFF not being available still, since who would take it at that point...
If our warbikes and deffdreaks stay Core (like chickens admech, marine motos, necron motos)... We will not need to waste HQ slots in waaagh since they will benefit from both buffs from Ghazkghull.
I’m really torn on this Beastsnagga box set. On the one hand, I’m inpatient and having the codex early would be nice. I also quite like the Squig riders, and it’s also a pretty tasty discount. On the other I’m not sure if I’d use the boyz or if I’d just use the redone normal boyz.
Then again, if we’re only getting 1 box per store here in Aus I don’t think I’ll have to worry about getting it anyway
you'd think they'd ship all the ork stuff to aus given the Mad Max feeling orks tend to vibe with
i wasnt going to get it at first but both impatience for codex and my insatiable urge to buy the ENTIRE army is getting in the way. One of the reasons i refuse to play marines: their army is too big, buying all of it would be....impractical...
Tiberius501 wrote: I’m really torn on this Beastsnagga box set. On the one hand, I’m inpatient and having the codex early would be nice. I also quite like the Squig riders, and it’s also a pretty tasty discount. On the other I’m not sure if I’d use the boyz or if I’d just use the redone normal boyz.
Then again, if we’re only getting 1 box per store here in Aus I don’t think I’ll have to worry about getting it anyway
i would take the one box with a grain of salt. seems GW is doing (debate if you want) a buisness decision to allocate more boxes to stores that move more product, the 2 main stores i go to both at least seem to think they are getting plenty of them getting names for preorders
Yeah, my wallet is really feeling the squeeze with this release, gotta tactically think about how I'm going to actually fit some of the purchases of the Ork stuff that are made available.
I've already committed to buying the Kill Team box on release, now I'm debating if the Snagga box is even feasible on my part.
I swear that GW timed this just when I got a new job too. WRY
The snagga box sounds like it’s going to be pricey and I’m hoping that’s not because of a special edition rulebook.. (I never buy those since they are outdated as soon as you purchase them)
gungo wrote: The snagga box sounds like it’s going to be pricey and I’m hoping that’s not because of a special edition rulebook.. (I never buy those since they are outdated as soon as you purchase them)
$199 USD msrp, note that is the beast snagga box
no owrk on new kill team box yet sadly but will post it as soon as that data hits
That’s the same as Indomitus/Dominion, right? So $290 for us in Aus which is pretty great compared to individual pricing. I’ll have to ask my FLGS if they’re getting copies in, I am very tempted.
if i recall correctly indomidus was ~$200 USD, but i was not given AU cost unfortunately. Indomicdus had a gak ton more models, but honestly it was one of the best value boxes GW has ever released (as a% compared to retail)
assumed prices: 85 for the squigriders + squigrider nob 40 for 10 beastsnaggas (80 in the box for 2 squads) 35 for the character of course, since all medium sized characters are 35 these days. 50 for the book Total: 250USD.
If those predictions are right, free codex. I imagine im lowballing than rather than overguessing the price, the squigriders are difficult to guess since the nob isnt a 'character' it seems
Vineheart01 wrote: Dakka gun is a new term they probably added it to most weapons. I'd guess its on any bullet-based assault weapon and maybe the Gork's gun too.
i'd be surprised if rokkits, kmbs, or any heavy weapons other than the Gork's gun getting it.
Dakka gun is likely to be the equivalent of bolt gun.
Which does pose an annoying issue...FW is kinda random on whether it updates to add stuff like this so theres a chance stuff from FW wont benefit from the Waaagh!'s at all (none of them make sense to be core either except Bikernobz)
Actually, since 9th, they have been surprisingly consistent - both DG and drukhari got their army rules added.
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tulun wrote: 6++ KFF would kill our durability gains with T5. So.. yay?
oh yeah i forgot bout the cards, theyre usually 25USD.
So free cards/codex if my guesses were accurate (again im assuming theyre higher than i actually stated for the squigriders at least)
Vineheart01 wrote: oh yeah i forgot bout the cards, theyre usually 25USD.
So free cards/codex if my guesses were accurate (again im assuming theyre higher than i actually stated for the squigriders at least)
out riders are 3 for $60 and a outrider ATv is $40 my guess is the nob kit is separate and its $60 for the 3 riders and $40 per nob
though its also possible they use the orruk models from sigmar as an example, their riders are $79 USD for 3 so maybe $79 for the riders and 40 for the nob
Now that I think about it, I really hate the new Waaagh.
It forces you into deciding to optimize between melee infantry or vehicle heavy lists and is going to make list building a bit more annoying even if it does open up some lateral options.
I really don't understand the speed Waaagh rules or what the idea behind that was.
It's also going to make timing the Waaagh critical for both setups, but moreso for the regular Waaagh for obvious reasons. I really don't like the idea of 4" meganobs without advance and charge.
It also makes units like flash gitz kind of a weird fit. Why would I use them when I can go buggies? And why would I use buggies when I don't use speed Waaagh?
Also because Waaagh only affects units with the core keyword, that would seem to exclude characters, no?
TedNugent wrote: Now that I think about it, I really hate the new Waaagh.
It forces you into deciding to optimize between melee infantry or vehicle heavy lists and is going to make list building a bit more annoying even if it does open up some lateral options.
I really don't understand the speed Waaagh rules or what the idea behind that was.
It's also going to make timing the Waaagh critical for both setups, but moreso for the regular Waaagh for obvious reasons. I really don't like the idea of 4" meganobs without advance and charge.
It also makes units like flash gitz kind of a weird fit. Why would I use them when I can go buggies? And why would I use buggies when I don't use speed Waaagh?
Also because Waaagh only affects units with the core keyword, that would seem to exclude characters, no?
"Orks Core and Orks Character units..."
Waagh never affected units like flash gitz in the first place.
The biggest thing I took away from this is Ghaz now has to be your warlord to get his Great Waagh, which is a massive nerf.
I'm starting to lose faith in this codex with these rules previews. I probably won't buy the army box either. I'll just wait for the standalone codex release later.
I think a lot of this will depend partly on if or how they change the existing warboss auras. Right now, the new WAAAGH! mechanic is a bonus and I don't think you necessarily have to completely rely on it as your battle plan, we may even have a strat or relic that can affect its duration or what it can apply to, so we kind of need a bigger picture before we start saying its a negative army mechanic.
Grimskul wrote: I think a lot of this will depend partly on if or how they change the existing warboss auras. Right now, the new WAAAGH! mechanic is a bonus and I don't think you necessarily have to completely rely on it as your battle plan, we may even have a strat or relic that can affect its duration or what it can apply to, so we kind of need a bigger picture before we start saying its a negative army mechanic.
And honestly it only really comes into play once maaaaybe twice a game. Sometimes not at all. IF the boss gets a different aura, or one that maybe buffs himself I think we'll still come out winning.
$70 for Nob
$60 for named dude
$90 for Hogs
$180 for the snagga boyz
$84 for the book
$35 for the cards
Total: $519AU
So it’s a nutso savings at $290, at my LGS it’d be ~$250.
Here’s where it’ll turn out to be $350AU for no reason and I’ll be a very grumpy Ork.
But the question is, can you get your mitts on it, and if you manage to preorder when will it arrive? (I've never preordered something that was then sent to a non GW address and all the GWs in the area are fully shut due to covid.)
If it turns out to be true, that would be fething insane. permanent transhuman for snakebites? So even armies shooting out a ton of shots with +1 to wound wouldnt mean gak as they always only ever wound on 4s? I should start snakebiti-fy my ork army..
Please correct me if I am wrong (Seriously) but most armies don't have +1 to wound units, and those that do, its mostly on S4 weapons. So with that in mind, It would really only impact S6 and S7. I hate to be negative....but who cares? if you are shooting S6 and S7 weapons at my Ork boyz, ive probably already won
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Jidmah wrote: Is it just me, or is anyone else disappointed by the squigrider's stats?
Depending on how good the rokkit spears are, they just seem to be side-grades to nob bikers.
Nope I am right there with you. Unless the squig has crazy stats or the unit as a whole comes with a lot of great rules OR its priced ridiculously low, I just don't see this as a viable unit. Warbikers are 27ppm and are hot garbage right now. If this comes in at the Blood Crushers 40ppm...i just don't see it being used competitively.
In regards to the KFF. I have a strong feeling its going back to providing cover saves of +1 and/or -1 to hit. Both I would consider a nerf from a 5++ but if we get T5 with no price increase it might still be usable.
Ugh, if that's the case, the KFF is pretty much dead on arrival.
The +1 to hit aura in melee for the Warboss is more interesting, since it definitely counteracts power klaws and makes him syngergize with meganobz and make boyz mobz even more dead killy. I'd assume if this is the case, the WAAAGH! Banner Nobz aura is different?
again, i'd ignore those rumors until we actually get codex pics. This is nothing new of people spouting bs to raise chaos and oops nope it was fake (last one was necrons flipping the hell out about warriors getting nerfed in the CA, when warriors themselves are not broken in the slightest way but the sheer amount of stackable crap that makes them strong so nerfing them specifically is dumb)
All the 'leaks' ive been seeing guts the army at its core. The trend for 9th codices is to add a layer or two of rules on top of whats there, remove a couple strats, maybe redesign a unit from the ground up. Why would they suddenly strip so many rules this time around? Orks already didnt have very many rules to benefit from, just the few we had were pretty good. Hell i even saw one claiming Deathskullz is a 5+++ against mortals and nothing else. A) none of the new codices with such a mechanic only have that and B) why would they go from invul to fnp....thats weird...
Grimskul wrote: I think a lot of this will depend partly on if or how they change the existing warboss auras. Right now, the new WAAAGH! mechanic is a bonus and I don't think you necessarily have to completely rely on it as your battle plan, we may even have a strat or relic that can affect its duration or what it can apply to, so we kind of need a bigger picture before we start saying its a negative army mechanic.
Yes, but I don't want to indulge in wishful thinking and assume it's a bonus when we haven't seen if the boss gets an aura. I think it's a safer bet to think otherwise.
We really don't know how the pieces fit together yet.
I know these leaks aren’t entirely trust worthy, but I don’t get the KFF nerf, if it is true. Why make it entirely useless? And the supposed new Dakka just makes them all rapid fire weapons. Not really sure I like either of these. Nerfing Orks in these areas seems a little bizarre.
Tiberius501 wrote: I know these leaks aren’t entirely trust worthy, but I don’t get the KFF nerf, if it is true. Why make it entirely useless? And the supposed new Dakka just makes them all rapid fire weapons. Not really sure I like either of these. Nerfing Orks in these areas seems a little bizarre.
If the leaks are real, the KFF nerf is just the beginning. Kustom jobs gutted, all mek gunz nerfed, advance and charge gone, green tide gone, DDD gone, warboss on warbike gone.
Only upside I've seen is the rumored Goffs klan update to exploding extra hits in melee (not attacks) and +1 str on charge/heroic intervention.
Tiberius501 wrote: I know these leaks aren’t entirely trust worthy, but I don’t get the KFF nerf, if it is true. Why make it entirely useless? And the supposed new Dakka just makes them all rapid fire weapons. Not really sure I like either of these. Nerfing Orks in these areas seems a little bizarre.
If the leaks are real, the KFF nerf is just the beginning. Kustom jobs gutted, all mek gunz nerfed, advance and charge gone, green tide gone, DDD gone, warboss on warbike gone.
Only upside I've seen is the rumored Goffs klan update to exploding extra hits in melee (not attacks) and +1 str on charge/heroic intervention.
Well we know one of those things right? The advance and charge is still here. It's different but it has some nice buffs attacked. And warboss on bike is a FW unit, yeah it won't be in the ork book but unless GW/FW decides to change a book they printed not a few months back it should still be a unit we can take.
So perhaps those leaks are leaving out half the story, saying what we're losing and not what we're getting?
Tiberius501 wrote: I know these leaks aren’t entirely trust worthy, but I don’t get the KFF nerf, if it is true. Why make it entirely useless? And the supposed new Dakka just makes them all rapid fire weapons. Not really sure I like either of these. Nerfing Orks in these areas seems a little bizarre.
If the leaks are real, the KFF nerf is just the beginning. Kustom jobs gutted, all mek gunz nerfed, advance and charge gone, green tide gone, DDD gone, warboss on warbike gone.
Only upside I've seen is the rumored Goffs klan update to exploding extra hits in melee (not attacks) and +1 str on charge/heroic intervention.
Well we know one of those things right? The advance and charge is still here. It's different but it has some nice buffs attacked. And warboss on bike is a FW unit, yeah it won't be in the ork book but unless GW/FW decides to change a book they printed not a few months back it should still be a unit we can take.
So perhaps those leaks are leaving out half the story, saying what we're losing and not what we're getting?
To your point yes there could be positives the leaker did not notice or include. Personally I think the WAAAGH change is a downgrade or a sidegrade at best. While some of these changes seem completely outlandish, the leaker was spot on about the WAAAGH change. It would have been one thing to speculate it returns to a once per game like we had back in 5th edition. But to also be correct on the +1 attack for that turn and the subsequent turn? These were screencapped on 6/18, so he must have had some pretty advanced knowledge or be the luckiest git to ever live.
Anyways, I'm not here to doom and gloom but I'm also not hopping on the hype train. The 9th ed track record for codices isn't nearly as perfect as folks make it out to be and its easy to be excited by a huge splash of new models. We will know soon enough if this leaker is on the money. I've saved all of the screencaps from Discord I can find and if anyone wants them feel free to DM me.
I'm curious that you feel the new waagh is a downgrade. I mean yeah I get that there are some negatives but to weigh it up
+now global and works even if in a transport
+gives an extra attack on the turn you use it and the turn after
+not technically an aura so the handful of anti aura things can't turn it off (I think?)
+does not seem to be klan locked unless I missed a part which makes mixed klans have more potential
-once per game
-limited to core and characters (It remains to be seen how stingy GW is with the core rule)
The speedwaagh is a little different, well very different. I'm going to miss the first turn charges with orkymatic piston Deffdreads. But in theory it does help out the units who in theory want it most. Warbikers. Assuming it functions as I think it functions. I dunno, the warbiker datasheet may change a bunch.
On one hand, i cant have adv+charge all game now. Which is more annoying these days as such a rule is reasonably common now.
On the other hand, when i do get it i will hit like a freight train. And 40k is often determined by T3 anyway.
cody.d. wrote: I'm curious that you feel the new waagh is a downgrade. I mean yeah I get that there are some negatives but to weigh it up
+now global and works even if in a transport
+gives an extra attack on the turn you use it and the turn after
+not technically an aura so the handful of anti aura things can't turn it off (I think?)
+does not seem to be klan locked unless I missed a part which makes mixed klans have more potential
-once per game
-limited to core and characters (It remains to be seen how stingy GW is with the core rule)
The speedwaagh is a little different, well very different. I'm going to miss the first turn charges with orkymatic piston Deffdreads. But in theory it does help out the units who in theory want it most. Warbikers. Assuming it functions as I think it functions. I dunno, the warbiker datasheet may change a bunch.
My feelings are pretty much the same as Vineheart, thus why I said sidegrade at best. You lose a lot of flexibility, while gaining a bit more hitting power.
On one hand, i cant have adv+charge all game now. Which is more annoying these days as such a rule is reasonably common now.
On the other hand, when i do get it i will hit like a freight train. And 40k is often determined by T3 anyway.
I think sidegrade is putting a positive spin on it.
Games which are non-competitive, beerhammer, maybe mid tables are decided on turn 3.
Truly competitive, tight games -- top tables ones -- are played over 5 turns.
This is going to be a downgrade in top competitive play imo.
I think you'll have to play around the bonus attacks iteration of it, not the advance and charge bit -- IE, I think a mounted Ork force may become more interesting. Getting out of a truck is a free 3 inches, which is roughly equivalent to an average advance.
Oh, fun fact -- according to the leaks, 'ere we go is now re-roll ALL dice, not one or more die. Yay!
On random wish listing, if Gretchin stay at 5ppm, I hope they get their ability to defend Orks baked in, or some other fun special rule. The T3 already helps though.
People always talk about auras as if they cover the table and your warboss never dies. If you're using him in combat, he's probably not lasting 5 turns anyway, and 6 inches is not a reliable range, especially since you generally need to compete for at least 3 objectives.
It's not definitely better (I think it is) but it at least opens up a host of options that allow for interesting play.
SpeedWaaagh I currently feel less great about, but maybe other rule changes will sway me on that.
Jidmah wrote: Is it just me, or is anyone else disappointed by the squigrider's stats?
Depending on how good the rokkit spears are, they just seem to be side-grades to nob bikers.
Nope I am right there with you. Unless the squig has crazy stats or the unit as a whole comes with a lot of great rules OR its priced ridiculously low, I just don't see this as a viable unit. Warbikers are 27ppm and are hot garbage right now. If this comes in at the Blood Crushers 40ppm...i just don't see it being used competitively.
I think my guesstimate of the whole box had them at ~25 PL for the whole unit, so they might be dirt cheap. Still not satisfying, and very dependent on whether they come in units of 3 or 6. With speed waaagh and KMB koptas back, I don't think these have place in mech lists.
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TedNugent wrote: Now that I think about it, I really hate the new Waaagh.
It forces you into deciding to optimize between melee infantry or vehicle heavy lists and is going to make list building a bit more annoying even if it does open up some lateral options.
Orks have always done that though, outside of mandatory troops and a few shooty passengers, infantry has always been a no-go for orks.
I really don't understand the speed Waaagh rules or what the idea behind that was.
It's also going to make timing the Waaagh critical for both setups, but moreso for the regular Waaagh for obvious reasons. I really don't like the idea of 4" meganobs without advance and charge.
At least in my experience, they rarely, if ever, were within aura range of the warboss. At least now you can synchronize the turn you tellyport them in and get extra attacks even if they are on the other side of the board.
It also makes units like flash gitz kind of a weird fit. Why would I use them when I can go buggies? And why would I use buggies when I don't use speed Waaagh?
For the same reason you do now - to have more shooting per points. Infantry also has other advantages, like being able to perform actions and flipping objectives, which most vehicles we have can't do.
In essence, the speed waaagh fixes a big problem current buggy lists have and that is buggies being just a bit too slow to push down the field with some extra oomph for their shooting to take out dangerous targets. It's also a good fit for dreadmobs, as kanz and dreads can now barrel down the board without losing any shooting, while nauts get some extra AP on their metric ton of weapons.
BDBurrow wrote: The biggest thing I took away from this is Ghaz now has to be your warlord to get his Great Waagh, which is a massive nerf.
It's also possible that he gets a rule that he has to be your warlord, like Mortarion got. Whether that is a nerf depends massively on whether we get a stratagem that allows us to buy extra warlord traits, and if we actually want to buy any of them.
On one hand, i cant have adv+charge all game now. Which is more annoying these days as such a rule is reasonably common now.
On the other hand, when i do get it i will hit like a freight train. And 40k is often determined by T3 anyway.
but this is where 40k is going in general... position your army for two turns and then make a devastating blow. just look at the new admech stuff.
beeing restricted to a warboss for advance and charge has the big downside of only beeing able to do so in a small portion of the table, now you can synchronize the mechanic for your whole army, Which is not only pretty fluffy but also damn good. the only gripes i have is that my evil sunz trukk boyz cant do that really anymore, perhaps the warboss retains his advance and charge aura which would be great, since you would get both benefits (army wide whaaagh and localized advance and charge)
the distinction between speedwhaagh and normal whaagh is... strange though. it further incentivises to only take one type of unit, i.e. go boyz OR toys. which on one hand is the way to play right now, on the other hand was MY biggest gripe with orks these days...
but like i said it all depends on if the warboss still has the advance and charge aura... if he does i am pretty excited... if he doesnt... well.. not so much
Ork have always been that way though, and I really do miss the times of 5th when you spend turn 1 and 2 to line up the perfect Waaagh!
In 9th, it's more like setting it up T1 and then trying to kill as much as possible for two turns, while speed waaagh! is all about driving into the enemy guns blazing.
I kind of like both, for their respective armies. And it's definitely a side-grade because of the two turn damage buffs. Thrakka is kind of odd though - to get maximum benefit out of him, your army would probably be filled to the brim with goff dreads, deff rolla wagons, nauts and bikes. That said, I'm not sure that you need to maximize the benefit.
The one thing that's kind of odd is that there is no mention of beasts - either all the squigs are going to be CORE or we see yet another episode of the GW exclusive series "new miniature team not talking to codex team".
Jidmah wrote: The one thing that's kind of odd is that there is no mention of beasts - either all the squigs are going to be CORE or we see yet another episode of the GW exclusive series "new miniature team not talking to codex team".
Pretty sure they are going to be core. Too good way to establish a new, huge product range as a natural part of an old army concept. I believe the era of isolated development teams is pretty much past now, as it is with most successful modern companies.
Oh, fun fact -- according to the leaks, 'ere we go is now re-roll ALL dice, not one or more die. Yay!
But that's worse
I'm pretty sure they're being sarcastic over how happy they are.
Though tbh, that was one change I was expecting given the trend of how reroll charges abilities have been implemented in both the core rules and in 9th ed codices, you have to roll both now so unfortunately it was on the cards for that applying for orks too.
There is one thing that may be good about the changes in 9th. They are taking rules away or simplifying them, but making units better. So it could help in removing rules bloat to some degree.
Though I might be looking at it wrong, but that’s one way to try and see something positive haha.
Tiberius501 wrote: There is one thing that may be good about the changes in 9th. They are taking rules away or simplifying them, but making units better. So it could help in removing rules bloat to some degree.
Though I might be looking at it wrong, but that’s one way to try and see something positive haha.
Unfortunately, if the Charadon books are anything to go by, we're back to specialist detachments again under the guise of Regiments of Renown, with the usual haves and have-nots (that Skitarii Veteran regiment shows how hilariously out of touch GW is when it comes to balance).
I know how much everyone loves to write about how the sky is going to be falling, but keep in mind that both DG and Drukhari also were complaining about how their army was bad and ruined before the full rules were leaked.
All 9th edition codices have in common that established, strong options are taking a hit, while the army as a whole rises in options and power level. There are literally too many changes to predict anything without seeing the whole picture.
My heart leaped when I read about the bonus attack from Waaagh!, my trukkboyz would finally have their 4th attack back, then I kept reading and realized I'm stuck with Speedwaaagh! as I just don't field footbosses.
Which better suits my current army build but I really miss the satisfaction of coordinating my trukks to land right when I call Waaagh! for the boyz to get their charges off. My biggest want for this codex has been for trukk mobs to be worthwhile, and the choppa AP of course is more than welcome but I have a feeling several 10-12 boyz mobs are still not going to have the impact they did in 5th and 6th.
seriously, those leaks cannot be true. Endless streams of "this is gone" or "this is nerfed" and not a single "we now have this rule" or "now this rule is better" They dont globally nerf an army. The 7th ork codex was the one time that ever happened and it bit gw in the ass HAAAARD.
edit: Ok, the new article just gave me a massive concern... Rokkits are Heavy D3 instead of Assault 1, meaning move + shoot issues and can no longer advance and shoot. That is REALLY bad for tankbustas and random boy rokkits, like holy balls royally bad. Hopefully deffkoptas are excellent to pick up the rokkit slack. Dakka is a crappy Rapid Fire but they make no mention about still being able to adv+shoot them. Did they just block most of our army from advancing? Bigshoota didnt get buffed at all, still AP0 1D. One can hope that the FW's Free Bigshoota is the norm because it still sucks otherwise.
Positive note, bubblechukkas look rude now (assuming points are good) lol.
Seems the leaks are true, given the last 2 articles have proven them right so far.
And yeah heavy rockets is hilarious. 6’s to hit now just for a random number of rockets being shot? Oof…
I assume (like… surely) there’s gonna be some sweet unit buffs cos atm this looks like a horrific pile of nerfs to an army that doesn’t need it.
EDIT: Why would you ever put a rocket launcher into a boyz squad? D3 shots, hitting on 6’s? 10/10, best game design lol.
I can only hope that Orks ignore the heavy penalty or something.
Yup. Ork shooting just got whacked by easily 50% their normal potential. Total bs when it wasnt even amazing in the first place.
i swear to god if they dont mention somewhere that you can adv+shoot dakka weapons and the article just didnt mention it....that alone completely screws over orks because almost all of our guns are Dakka or Heavy now. Atm it seems like KMB/Burnas are the only assaults we got left. That is Grade A gak...
Also i find it insulting that its like +50% shots instead of double shots like Rapid Fire if we also cant adv+shoot them. Bigshootas are still going to be worthless junk were forced to bring...man i hope theyre free...
That is.....sUUUUper weird. Assault weapons have kinda been the Orks things for a while. While I appreciate the extra shots for rokkits (FINALLY), making them heavy really relegates them to taking them only on vehicles, AND making it blast means we can't shoot into combat with them anymore.
I know tankbustas are kinda dead in the water unless they seriously change their bespoke rules to make up for rokkits being heavy or being BS4+ base. That or they have to get way cheaper than they are now.
Also, man, really? At least give AP-1 for big shootas. What a load of baloney. They better not increase BS costs on top of that.
Vineheart01 wrote: Positive note, bubblechukkas look rude now (assuming points are good) lol.
You allocate targets before rolling to determine what kind of shot you get, so this is basically just random Strength/Damage weapon again except now you just get shafted sometimes.
I get the feeling that Dakka weapons, when proposed, were meant to basically be "Assault +" weapons and function completely like them with the added effect of the half range shot bonus, but somewhere along the line that got lost in communication and by then the wheels were in motion, "exhaustive" playtesting had been done, and by the time the matter was (if it was) brought to the writers attention it was too late - they're committed now, sorry. We won't even get an errata for it because unless it's an obvious function break like untouchable Pteraxii, GW doesn't like to make big rule changes in codex FAQs.
Rokkits are purely for vehicles or tankbustas but wow tankbustas
Shootas are worse 9in for extra shots is worse then old dakka rule of extra shot on 6. I was hoping for the boltgun change not this…a few extra shots usually doesn’t mean much when your accuracy is low and the gun has no ap mod and str4.
Bubble chukka I rather have a 2 then 3 roll depends on price but that 3 should have been d3 atks
So far mixed reaction need to see more
Stay calm we only see a very small picture nearly every unit and special rule is changed. For one thing Dakka was changed to be a keyword so that I’m assuming special rules and traits could improve specific section of ork weapons.. i doubt they nerfed ork shooting to be a worse form of assault/rapid fire weapons.
Rokkits are good on vehicles and I’m assuming Tankbustas will be able to overcome the heavy weapon tag somehow..
gungo wrote: Rokkits are purely for vehicles or tankbustas but wow tankbustas
Shootas are worse 9in for extra shots is worse then old dakka rule of extra shot on 6. I was hoping for the boltgun change not this…a few extra shots usually doesn’t mean much when your accuracy is low and the gun has no ap mod and str4.
Bubble chukka I rather have a 2 then 3 roll depends on price but that 3 should have been d3 atks
So far mixed reaction need to see more
That's pretty much every Codex release so far. It's the fairly typical doom and gloom (except for Ad Mech, shocker) as people learn things piece meal they try to synthesize it with what's already there instead of going "OK, interested to see how this mixes in what else we get". DG did it with the rumored changes to DR. Necrons did it with Warriors. We're doing it now.
We have like, 2-3 days until we see full previews. Additionally - the shootas with a Waaagghh will go to AP -2 in turn 3 if you call it in turn 2. That's no joke from even 12 boyz just shooting. Same with big shootas. Least that's how I'm reading it.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: We have like, 2-3 days until we see full previews. Additionally - the shootas with a Waaagghh will go to AP -2 in turn 3 if you call it in turn 2. That's no joke from even 12 boyz just shooting. Same with big shootas. Least that's how I'm reading it.
Stage 2 of the Waaaghs starts when Stage 1 ends. So AP-1 at best, and shootas in general aren't bikes or vehicles.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: We have like, 2-3 days until we see full previews. Additionally - the shootas with a Waaagghh will go to AP -2 in turn 3 if you call it in turn 2. That's no joke from even 12 boyz just shooting. Same with big shootas. Least that's how I'm reading it.
You're reading it wrong twice over. First of all, Stage 1 and Stage 2 are not cumulative, they're degrading. Stage 1 is more powerful with multiple effects, Stage 2 just retains one of them. So for Speedwaaagh! you get the extra ap for both Stages, but lose the other effects in Stage 2. Second of all, said bonus ap is only for Vehicle and Biker units, so boyz won't benefit at all.
Stay calm we only see a very small picture nearly every unit and special rule is changed. For one thing Dakka was changed to be a keyword so that I’m assuming more special rules and traits could improve specific section of ork weapons.. i doubt they nerfed ork shooting to be a worse form of assault/rapid fire weapons. They obviously intended to improve it in specific areas.
Rokkits are good on vehicles (hi killakans)and I’m assuming Tankbustas will be able to overcome the heavy weapon tag somehow..even if it’s just evil suns clan or something.
I like how they messed up "Morks roar" stats. the "old" range is not 30, its 36.
furthermore, out of fear for making my games even longer, the fact i need to measure up the distance and see if its within half range to get dakka and then some models gets dakka others dont, i would have just liked if our old dakka dakka rule simply gave extra hits not hit rolls.
Now you gotta measure from your unit shooting to the enemy, check if you are within half range, and in case some are in within half range, you gotta do mental gymnastics do that calculation for how many shots you end up with. I understand that if you had rapid fire weapons that would be the same, but dakka weapons on 30 ork boys with shootas where some might be within half range and others dont, oh boy. given that we can be a horde army thats.. a lot of stuff to do and not very much time to do it
But as others have said, my main gripe with this is that its a worse rapid fire, and there has been no indication that we can advance and shoot these weapons. I hope we can, because boys tends to advance all the time.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: We have like, 2-3 days until we see full previews. Additionally - the shootas with a Waaagghh will go to AP -2 in turn 3 if you call it in turn 2. That's no joke from even 12 boyz just shooting. Same with big shootas. Least that's how I'm reading it.
You're reading it wrong twice over. First of all, Stage 1 and Stage 2 are not cumulative, they're degrading. Stage 1 is more powerful with multiple effects, Stage 2 just retains one of them. So for Speedwaaagh! you get the extra ap for both Stages, but lose the other effects in Stage 2. Second of all, said bonus ap is only for Vehicle and Biker units, so boyz won't benefit at all.
They will if you put them in a transport. Which, as an Evil Sunz player - I wave my 24 boyz in Trukks at you with 3 AP -1 shots each now. It's super easy to get into that half range with these smaller boards, particularly for the big shootas. And I'm taking it as half range = every Ork rolled a dakka dakka instead of the couple you'd get normally. Granted I was wrong about how they worded the Waagghh cycle (assumed it stacked). But as an additional aside, the Preview team has mixed stuff up before themselves lol.
Comically, trukk boyz with shootas is somewhat strong during the Speed Waaagh!
Long as theyre in the trukk they get the +1 to Dakka shots and AP+1 so if theyre within 9 thats 4 shots S4 AP1.
....i said somewhat strong not amazing lol. Generally i liked to keep my shoota boyz inside the trukk anyway until it blew up or i needed to camp 2 objectives
If we can still advance and shoot it's really odd that it wasn't mentioned. Also given the dual profile of the scrap jet, the rokkits going to heavy and blast is a straight nerf. Sigh.
These preview articles have been weird though in general. Selling things that are definitely worse (miracle dice) as improved and generally feeling as though they were written by someone with no idea how the previous book worked. It's all 'These new rules are great', followed by worse rules.
Friday is generally crusade previews, so tomorrow will probably be kultures. It'll be interesting to see them sell those as improved.
All said, I'm hopeful dakka will be an assault/rapid fire hybrid because otherwise it's really not worth distinguishing from rapid fire, and we still haven't see the strats and unit upgrades (pay points to get a better whatever) or any data sheet changes.
Jidmah wrote: I didn't realize that the Speedwaaagh! says IN vehicles... that makes it significantly worse.
Given the usual way GW writes rules, it applies to vehicle or biker units, not units in a vehicle. It's 'proper' English but it should be written in a way that's clearer for everyone.
Edit: I was slow, I didn't mean to just become the broken record...
it clearly is referring to transported....what else could that possibly mean since that terminology has never been used before. i.e. inside a trukk, wagon, rig, etc.
You dont refer to crew as "in" a vehicle, theyre the vehicle.
Vineheart01 wrote: it clearly is referring to transported....what else could that possibly mean since that terminology has never been used before.
i.e. inside a trukk, wagon, rig, etc.
You dont refer to crew as "in" a vehicle, theyre the vehicle.
Take out "ork vehicle" and you'll realize that makes no sense.
"Each time a model in an orks biker unit from your army makes a ranged attacj, improve the armour penetration characteristic of that attack by 1."
Vineheart01 wrote: it clearly is referring to transported....what else could that possibly mean since that terminology has never been used before.
Except every instance of referring to a collective unit (even when it's a unit of 1 model) instead of individual models in the entire ruleset? You are not reading the whole sentence and seeing that it is referring to vehicle and biker units (and all models contained in them).
They clearly want us to use vehicles, bikers, walkers, and buggies for our dakka.
1) speedwaagh only effects these units
2) They have no way of getting advance and charge unless they are core (that we know of)
3) rokkits to heavy
Shooting infantry are looking to be a thing of the past. Walkers IMO are looking very strong. The new KMB profile is going to look nasty on a CORE deff dread.
BDBurrow wrote: They clearly want us to use vehicles, bikers, walkers, and buggies for our dakka.
1) speedwaagh only effects these units
2) They have no way of getting advance and charge unless they are core (that we know of)
3) rokkits to heavy
Shooting infantry are looking to be a thing of the past.
The "that we know of" part is key. As has been said numerous times already - we're looking at small pieces of a larger puzzle but making the larger conclusion of what the puzzle is with our couple little pieces. They could easily add a special rule to say, tankbustas, that they can move and fire with no penalty. They could easily add a SR to all buggies to make them treat HW's as assault. There's a whole list of stuff. The speculating is fun but kind of pointless until we can see the whole picture.
But... it's human nature to react, and usually chicken-little it. Specially in 40k.
"Even the humble Boyz get a considerable boost, with big shootaz moving from a perfectly decent Assault 3 to Dakka 5/3, and regular shootaz switching from Assault 2 to Dakka 3/2, making them significantly more lethal at close range. "
Rokkit launchas are heavy but maybe tankbustas will get a rule to ignore penalties, yeah, although two special rules for the shooting phase (second one is re-rolls against vehicles) sounds a bit unlikely. Even a 1CP stratagem to do that could work, they typically fire once most of the times anyway.
Before complaining let's wait for the whole picture. In the meantime 30 shots from the main Gorkanaut's gun without burning a CP for a kustom job look nice .
Big shootas with 5 shots and AP-1 in the waaagh turn also look nice, assuming they'll still cost 5 points.
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tulun wrote: "Even the humble Boyz get a considerable boost, with big shootaz moving from a perfectly decent Assault 3 to Dakka 5/3, and regular shootaz switching from Assault 2 to Dakka 3/2, making them significantly more lethal at close range. "
Still got no APGW, so ... no, not really.
We get it in the waaagh turn. Outside shootas, which shouldn't get an AP since a blob of boyz can fire 90 shots now, all our dakka weapons are mounted on bikes and vehicles.
I am dubious shoota boys are the best thing to throw into a trukk, but I guess we'll see.
And I wager the better of the two is the Waaaagh. Even in a more mounted list, you'll probably want your bikers / calvary advancing and charging at least once, and get bonus attacks in their smaller squad sizes.
Blackie wrote: Rokkit launchas are heavy but maybe tankbustas will get a rule to ignore penalties, yeah, although two special rules for the shooting phase (second one is re-rolls against vehicles) sounds a bit unlikely. Even a 1CP stratagem to do that could work, they typically fire once most of the times anyway.
Before complaining let's wait for the whole picture. In the meantime 30 shots from the main Gorkanaut's gun without burning a CP for a kustom job look nice .
Big shootas with 5 shots and AP-1 in the waaagh turn also look nice, assuming they'll still cost 5 points.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tulun wrote: "Even the humble Boyz get a considerable boost, with big shootaz moving from a perfectly decent Assault 3 to Dakka 5/3, and regular shootaz switching from Assault 2 to Dakka 3/2, making them significantly more lethal at close range. "
Still got no APGW, so ... no, not really.
We get it in the waaagh turn. Outside shootas, which shouldn't get an AP since a blob of boyz can fire 90 shots now, all our dakka weapons are mounted on bikes and vehicles.
A Gork puts out at 18 inches, 50 shots anti infantry shots base, 2d3 rokkit shots and even at ork shooting, thats an impressive salvo. On a SpeedWaaagh Turn, which I'm under the impression adds 1 shot to each dakka weapon (5 extra shots) the extra AP above all will massively increase the Gorks ability to rip apart infantry.
In addition, if Killa Kanz stay at the same price for Rokkit Kanz, they'll effectively double their shooting output on average and against 6 man elite units, they'll triple it. Deff Dreads with KMBs provided Bad Moonz stays as reroll 1s will be noticeably better at throwing out heavily damaging shots.
I hope so much that Gw lets boys mobs have more than 1 special weapon per 10 models wit the new kit and new data sheet. Please let me field 6 big shootas in a mob of 30!
For the tank bustas I guess I am still expecting that reroll to hit vehicles to be a thing. No idea if that make them very worth it, needing 6's to hit I guess. Wonder if they will get a +1 to hit when shooting at vehicles.
tulun wrote: I am dubious shoota boys are the best thing to throw into a trukk, but I guess we'll see.
And I wager the better of the two is the Waaaagh. Even in a more mounted list, you'll probably want your bikers / calvary advancing and charging at least once, and get bonus attacks in their smaller squad sizes.
I'm already drooling at a mixed forces goffs list.
So I’ve been a lurker on the forum for a long while, but had to join in on the speculation.
The article says: “ In battle this typically means that if you roll a 6 to hit, you get to shoot again, granting you a fair few extra shots when the boyz have their eye in.”
So we may still have DDD in addition to Dakka guns. So I speculate that DDD is more shots on 6s and ability to assault and shoot with dakka guns.
Hoofy wrote: So I’ve been a lurker on the forum for a long while, but had to join in on the speculation.
The article says: “ In battle this typically means that if you roll a 6 to hit, you get to shoot again, granting you a fair few extra shots when the boyz have their eye in.”
So we may still have DDD in addition to Dakka guns. So I speculate that DDD is more shots on 6s and ability to assault and shoot with dakka guns.
They were describing the old dakka.
"It’s a system we all love, but what if it was even better? That’s right. Dakka is no longer an ability, it’s an entirely new weapon type! "
Same time, 30 shoota boys shooting 150 shots is pretty funny.
Hoofy wrote: So I’ve been a lurker on the forum for a long while, but had to join in on the speculation.
The article says: “ In battle this typically means that if you roll a 6 to hit, you get to shoot again, granting you a fair few extra shots when the boyz have their eye in.”
So we may still have DDD in addition to Dakka guns. So I speculate that DDD is more shots on 6s and ability to assault and shoot with dakka guns.
They later state it was removed as an ability in exchange for the new weapon type.
Coming off the Sisters codex, GW was pretty rude in some of their updates. There were a lot of old combos/units that they broke, seemingly just because they were a cool thing before and they felt the need to change something. A lot of units lost abilities that made them stand out, a lot of general army rules got shifted, etc, etc.
But having had the chance to study the codex in full now, what they really did is force you to build your army towards specific effects. Want a melee-heavy army? Then here are the stratagems, leader buffs, and relics you really need to make that work. Tanky? You want this order with these rites. Shooty? You're gonna want to run this type of list.
It was incredibly disappointing to see the leaks, see the leaks proved correct, look at all my old lists and realize they didn't work anymore.
But once I started building new lists, I realized I could do - essentially - everything I had done before, and more. It just took some more planning, more thought, more positioning. I had to find the right synergies, and (for the most part) they were there once I started looking.
So, here's hoping the same is true for Orks. It might look pretty rude to start with, but I'm betting there will be plenty of ways to make lists work.
Hmm, I have a bad feeling the Killa Kanz are gonna go the way of “what’s in the kit is what you can build.” And I’m pretty sure Kanz come with 1 of each heavy weapon. So expect Kanz to get 1 rocket launcher for every 3, unless I’m wrong about what’s in the kit.
Vineheart01 wrote: it clearly is referring to transported....what else could that possibly mean since that terminology has never been used before.
Except every instance of referring to a collective unit (even when it's a unit of 1 model) instead of individual models in the entire ruleset? You are not reading the whole sentence and seeing that it is referring to vehicle and biker units (and all models contained in them).
I am not native english speaker, but is it possible that the "unit" refers only to the bikers, and not to vehicles ?
Also the more I compare the wordings in the first ability (+ 1 shot on Dakka) and the second ability (Ap-1), the more I feel like it's really including the transported troops. Why would they add "in" for the second ability ?
Anyway, the rule is quite unclear and we will certainly need a errata or FAQ to clarify that.
Whatever your list is today, it probably won't be as good anymore, period. That's the way it is with new codices.
We just need to find what is the next OP/killy/fun combination in the new codex so that we can spam it !
Example of a stupid idea: unit of 3 x deffdreads (1 klaw 3 bigshoota each). At speedwaahg turn , i'll get them close somehow (advance, orkmatic piston, tellyporta, whatever...) within 18", and they will dish out 54 shots str5 ap-1. If I can increase the accuracy ( stratagem, sparkly bits, etc...), that would be a nice trick hahaha .
Damn - my bad. My brain injected a “just” when reading. So I read it as “Dakka is no longer just an ability,”. Well there goes that speculation, lol. Back to lurking
assuming prices dont screw with us (like now that KMB is D3 shots it goes to 15pts instead of 10 because GW logic) a quad-KMB deffdread feels really hilarious now...
I think the issue with the previews is that they're always written from a pure hype perspective, as if there are no trade offs. They should combine them with some more competitive style articles that drill into why things change, however it's still super rare for them to be open about the rule writing process
Yeah. Like when they tell you how awesome it is that they took away your features and doubled your points! You can field less models now and your rules are simpler!
Good luck with the 
.