apparently my friend is reading me twitter postings off from boston emergency communications
Shooting/murder at MIT, carjacking a few miles away by two Middle Eastern males, both armed. Now in Watertown after being chased. Shooting at police, grenades, explosions. Officers screaming on scanner "LOUD EXPLOSIONS! LOUD EXPLOSIONS!!"
@BlogsofWar: Boston scanner - "They have explosives here at the scene." "Officer down""
@NewsBreaker: BREAKING: Scanner: Dispatcher: "Retreat, retreat" after officer radios in there are undetonated devices
@BlogsofWar: Boston scanner - Explosives on scene. Dispatcher "All units retreat. retreat." One suspect MAY be injured. Needs to be dead!
@BlogsofWar: Boston scanner - Bomb squad responding to a "package in the roadway"
1 officer KIA, one officer WIA was taken to Beth Israel hospital, no update on his condition.
One suspect is in police hands, manhunt and house by house search is continuing for other suspect, Mt Auborn hospital just went on Code Black (bomb thread condition)
Are they really suspects in the bombing before, or is the Globe just assuming this?
They've at least got one of them anyway, shame about the officer though. They'll get the other guy eventually, just hopefully it won't lead to bystanders or more officers being injured.
Shame that you can't really take their word for it any more and need to wait for stuff to be confirmed properly.
Cause on that stream, they're talking about how they're still looking for him and that's what they had just been told by the police. Really that radio link is probably the best source to follow it.
Edit: Unless they had killed the first guy instead of arresting him.
BREAKING: State Police spox: 2 suspects have been "accounted for" in Watertown scene; don't know how many there are in all -
Mass State Police: Multiple explosive devices used against police tonight in Watertown
fething hell. I've never been in a war zone, but when they play the video footage of the shoot out(s), I imagine that's exactly what one sounds like. Maybe with less automatic weapon fire.
n0t_u wrote: Scary to think what they were trying to do at that MIT building with all this stuff.
Yeah very scary, Looking at the suspect pictures if they are supposed to be the Boston Marathon bombers, looks like they could be students there. Which brings up a few unpleasant ideas
Definently sounds like rifle fire to me. For sure some 5.56 reports, probably from police officer patrol rifles (AR-15/M16s) and the deeper report sounds like AK fire to me. Does NOT sound like full auto fire though. Until right at the end any way, that sounds like some 5.56 full auto fire, which I'd attribute to police officers returning fire.
BPD scanner has identified the names : Suspect 1: Mike Mulugeta Suspect 2: Sunil Tripathi”
Watertown residents told to "roll up their windows, locks their doors & stay inside" -- This is still VERY active
Also, one of the suspects has been purportedly identified as that missing college student. Who knows if that's true, at this point people are just making stuff up to fill the silence, but interesting if it turns out to be. I wonder what was in that note now.
I'm copying this stuff off twitter cause they're typing faster then I am even though we're listening to the same scanners. They seem to like "Breaking"
Breotan wrote: Looks like there's a pic of dead suspect on Yahoo!
That's not the dead suspect, or either of the suspects actually. That's just a dude who got put on the deck, checked out and released. I was watching that live.
I have found Fox News is substantially better at covering breaking news then any of the other networks. This was the second presidential election they had faster numbers, even if, uh, some factions weren't too sure if they were true.
Not that I'm a fan of what Fox does, they're just awful. But quick on the draw, when that's what you need.
Breotan wrote: Interesting that this is all BPD and not FBI.
They have the command and control in place, and there's no confirmation that these guys are international or intrastate, so it'd be a serious pain for the feds to take command on this one, so they're jumping in and helping sure, but this fight's gonna belong to Commissioner Davies and Boston's finest since they have the manpower and jurisdiction.
AP confirms that suspect 1 died in the hospital of acute lead poisoning.
Breotan wrote: Interesting that this is all BPD and not FBI.
They have the command and control in place, and there's no confirmation that these guys are international or intrastate, so it'd be a serious pain for the feds to take command on this one, so they're jumping in and helping sure, but this fight's gonna belong to Commissioner Davies and Boston's finest since they have the manpower and jurisdiction.
AP confirms that suspect 1 died in the hospital of acute lead poisoning.
Except that the Feds have been deeply involved pretty much since the first bombings.
Ouze wrote: Not that I'm a fan of what Fox does, they're just awful. But quick on the draw, when that's what you need.
Separate the news reporting from the punditry and you'll find FOX is actually a pretty damned good news agency. You're right about the talking head shows, though - drama llamas all of them.
Sure, that doesn't mean they're in charge though. Also the FBI doesn't have the assets to do what the Boston PD is doing right now. They're primarily investigators, this is pure brute force police work mixed with some gun fighting, while I suppose the FBI could scramble a HRT team I don't think they'd be much use here with all the boots on deck already.
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DA's Forever wrote: So there's three injured officers so far from what im hearing on the scanner.
In addition to the officer presently in the hospital.
NBC is reporting that suspect 1 at least came into the U.S. about a year ago and had foreign military experience. Not sure what their source is on this, but comments from Commissioner Davies in that quickie press conference seems to corroborate that.
Damn! Suspect #1 had some SERIOUS lead poisoning, like to the tune of "doctors couldn't count all the GSWs" AND managed to blow a chunk of himself off. Arrived at the hospital in cardiac arrest as was pronounced dead at 1335 EST
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Damn! Suspect #1 had some SERIOUS lead poisoning, like to the tune of "doctors couldn't count all the GSWs" AND managed to blow a chunk of himself off. Arrived at the hospital in cardiac arrest as was pronounced dead at 1335 EST
Well damn that gun fight we heard earlier sounded like gak was hitting the fan. I'm not surprised he had more than his daily recommended dose.
All rail and commuter lines are shut down. Police telling people to go home and not wait for public transportation to resume, because it ain't gonna happen any time soon.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Damn! Suspect #1 had some SERIOUS lead poisoning, like to the tune of "doctors couldn't count all the GSWs" AND managed to blow a chunk of himself off. Arrived at the hospital in cardiac arrest as was pronounced dead at 1335 EST
Well damn that gun fight we heard earlier sounded like gak was hitting the fan. I'm not surprised he had more than his daily recommended dose.
Suspect #1 playing "Catch the Shiny Bullet" like a Boss!
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Damn! Suspect #1 had some SERIOUS lead poisoning, like to the tune of "doctors couldn't count all the GSWs" AND managed to blow a chunk of himself off. Arrived at the hospital in cardiac arrest as was pronounced dead at 1335 EST
Well damn that gun fight we heard earlier sounded like gak was hitting the fan. I'm not surprised he had more than his daily recommended dose.
Suspect #1 playing "Catch the Shiny Bullet" like a Boss!
A cop kept saying he had someone on the deck but wouldn't confirm anything. A Public announcement just went over saying busses and rails are closed and all business in the quarintine are to remain closed
Emily Riemer/Staff @EmilyWCVB wrote:RT @SeanKellyTV: No confirmation that this is actual suspect.. police here yelling "got him." Only confirmed that a person in custody.
Fark.com seems to have crashed from all the traffic.
Emily Riemer/Staff @EmilyWCVB wrote:RT @SeanKellyTV: No confirmation that this is actual suspect.. police here yelling "got him." Only confirmed that a person in custody.
Fark.com seems to have crashed from all the traffic.
Breotan wrote: Bomb Squad suiting up to deal with a suspicious device. Reporters are saying that it doesn't look like they have the suspect.
Nope. According to the scanner, they're pulling pretty much everyone available to a rallying point at a mall. My conclusion is that they're manhuntin'.
10 tactical teams out, going house to house, according to scanner.
I heard it but some of the calls are hazy and multiple people talking at a time, Sometimes cant tell whats happening. It was said quick something along the lines of "White, middle eastern" That was all.
djones520 wrote: Friend just told me the scanners are saying that the two guys they've just apprehended are middle eastern. You guys hear anything like that?
One of the guys they've got cuffed, from what I heard, has an Arkansas-issued saltwater fishing license.
I'd put the odds of him being Middle Eastern as pretty low.
djones520 wrote: Friend just told me the scanners are saying that the two guys they've just apprehended are middle eastern. You guys hear anything like that?
One of the guys they've got cuffed, from what I heard, has an Arkansas-issued saltwater fishing license.
I'd put the odds of him being Middle Eastern as pretty low.
Arkasnas saltwater fishing license? Did Louisiana fall into the Gulf of Mexico last night?
DA's Forever wrote: I heard it but some of the calls are hazy and multiple people talking at a time, Sometimes cant tell whats happening. It was said quick something along the lines of "White, middle eastern" That was all.
"One white, two... middle-eastern"
It doesn't sound like any were the specific person they're looking for, though.
djones520 wrote: Friend just told me the scanners are saying that the two guys they've just apprehended are middle eastern. You guys hear anything like that?
One of the guys they've got cuffed, from what I heard, has an Arkansas-issued saltwater fishing license.
I'd put the odds of him being Middle Eastern as pretty low.
Arkasnas saltwater fishing license? Did Louisiana fall into the Gulf of Mexico last night?
Given that Louisiana's southern border is the Gulf of Mexico... yes?
Breotan wrote: Fark just loaded. People posting, "I think we just DDOSed ourselves."
DDOS?
Distributed Denial of Service. Basically hammering a web site so hard the server crashes. Hackers use botnets to do this all the time against places like Amazon, Microsoft, etc.
Sean Kelly/Staff @SeanKellyTV wrote:Recapping--latest person taken into custody NOT the suspect.
Many Chechens are muslim so while their oppressor is Russia, perhaps there is a kind of confused anti-anti-muslim thing going on and resulted in an attack on "The Great Satan".
Ignoring the fact that the US is hardly Russia's best friend.
DA's Forever wrote: Ah alright so one still out, gotcha. Who was it they nabbed from that car then? Just being cautious? Or a third suspicious person?
They're taking down any car they see moving, as far as I can tell.
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Kilkrazy wrote: Many Chechens are muslim so while their oppressor is Russia, perhaps there is a kind of confused anti-anti-muslim thing going on and resulted in an attack on "The Great Satan".
Ignoring the fact that the US is hardly Russia's best friend.
DA's Forever wrote: Ah alright so one still out, gotcha. Who was it they nabbed from that car then? Just being cautious? Or a third suspicious person?
They're taking down any car they see moving, as far as I can tell.
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Kilkrazy wrote: Many Chechens are muslim so while their oppressor is Russia, perhaps there is a kind of confused anti-anti-muslim thing going on and resulted in an attack on "The Great Satan".
Ignoring the fact that the US is hardly Russia's best friend.
Nah.
I think they're pissed about Patriot's Day.
Might have been a plot to throw authorities off their trail. Why they did it then is still a huge question mark.
Armed response just turned over a large building in Cambridge, after a woman found blood. Nothing there now and it looks like the apcs are moving on as they are loading back onto it.
Chechen brothers, apparently.
All public transport in the Boston area is shut down. City at a virtual standstill.
There is one left on the loose.
19 year old Zokar Zarnioff (sp) still out and about.
DA's Forever wrote: Ah alright so one still out, gotcha. Who was it they nabbed from that car then? Just being cautious? Or a third suspicious person?
They're taking down any car they see moving, as far as I can tell.
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Kilkrazy wrote: Many Chechens are muslim so while their oppressor is Russia, perhaps there is a kind of confused anti-anti-muslim thing going on and resulted in an attack on "The Great Satan".
Ignoring the fact that the US is hardly Russia's best friend.
Nah.
I think they're pissed about Patriot's Day.
Might have been a plot to throw authorities off their trail. Why they did it then is still a huge question mark.
Not really, the target is the EXACT type of target AQ types are told to go for. Inspire, for example, has urged attacking sporting events and other similar gatherings.
Might be another case of speed over facts we've been seeing displayed with everything in Boston. Mostly during the Marathon though. They've been doing pretty good tonight
Police have identified Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, as the "black hat" bombing suspect, killed during the manhunt that followed. Readers have pointed out that Johannes Hirn made Tsarnaev the subject of a photo essay, "Will Box for Passport," taken before the boxer competed at National Golden Gloves competition in Salt Lake City. The captions give us a micro-profile of the suspect.
Tamerlan, who studies at Bunker Hill Community College in Boston and wants to become an engineer, took the semester off from school to train for the competition.
Tamerlan fled Chechnya with his family because of the conflict in the early 90s, and lived for years in Kazakhstan before getting to the United States as a refugee.
Originally from Chechnya, but living in the United States since five years, Tamerlan says: "I don't have a single American friend, I don't understand them."
If he wins enough fights... Tamerlan says he could be selected for the US Olympic team and be naturalized American. Unless his native Chechnya becomes independent, Tamerlan says he would rather compete for the United States than for Russia.
Tamerlan says he doesn't drink or smoke anymore: "God said no alcohol." A muslim, he says: "There are no values anymore," and worries that "people can't control themselves."
This YouTube account may be Tsarnaev's.
UPDATE: Justin Hart located Tamerlan's Amazon wishlist. Among the hits:
- How to Make Driver's Licenses and Other ID on Your Home Computer
- The I.D. Forger: Homemade Birth Certificates & Other Documents Explained
- Secrets Of A Back Alley ID Man: Fake Id Construction Techniques Of The Underground
- The Lone Wolf And the Bear: Three Centuries of Chechen Defiance of Russian Rule
- Organized Crime: AN INSIDE GUIDE TO THE WORLD'S MOST SUCCESSFUL INDUSTRY
And, of course...
Sounds like they might be tightening in on him. No confirmation, but they are tightening the noose on a house with open doors. Bringing SWAT in on a few "suspicious" houses
Also got Media running around in the zone apparently from the scanner
... although one would imagine a name like that isn't common in the area ?
That almost seems a bit too neat or easy of a find, you'd think that if you were going to dig up info like the above you wouldn't do it in your real name maybe ?
Course looks like we're not exactly dealing with a genius here so ...
I have a friend at MIT and contacted them to make sure they were ok (they were) but they said things, and I quote, 'are crazy at the moment up here'. I imagine that is an understatement.
The Uncle of the two brothers gave an interview, wish I had vid, this was a passionate and angry man, I'd be more scared of him that a SWAT team.
There as a small briefing with the uncle of the two bombing suspects. In it he wished condolences to the victims and victims families. He stated that he had not been in touch with his brother’s family in at least three months and that there was never any indication of hatred or ill will towards the US.
He stated that the reason behind the attack was that they were losers who were not able to settle themselves and harbored hatred towards those who could.
He also stated that they are of the muslim faith but that anything stating that this had to do with religion is fake.
“Someone radicalized them.”
He has stated that his family has nothing to do with that family, that the boys immigrated in 2003 and that they had never been in Chechnya . He also said that if he had known of their involvement he would have been the first person to turn them in, but had not seen the photos released by the FBI.
He claims that they brought shame to the family and to the entire Chechnyan ethnicity.
He closed with encouraging Dzhokar to turn himself in, and asked that the media respect his property and family.
So far my favorite theory from the tinfoil hat brigade is that this is a false flag operation initiated by Putin to unite the U.S. and Russia in common hatred of Jihadis.
(Reuters) - Boston bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev posted links to Islamic websites and others calling for Chechen independence on what appears to be his page on a Russian language social networking site.
Abusive comments in Russian and English were flooding onto Tsarnaev's page on VK, a Russian-language social media site, on Friday after he was identified as a suspect in the bombing of the Boston marathon.
Police launched a massive manhunt for Tsarnaev, 19, after killing his older brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev in a shootout overnight.
On the site, the younger Tsarnaev identifies himself as a 2011 graduate of Cambridge Rindge and Latin School, a public school in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
It says he went to primary school in Makhachkala, capital of Dagestan, a province in Russia that borders Chechnya, and lists his languages as English, Russian and Chechen.
His "World view" is listed as "Islam" and his "Personal priority" is "career and money".
He has posted links to videos of fighters in the Syrian civil war and to Islamic web pages with titles like "Salamworld, my religion is Islam" and "There is no God but Allah, let that ring out in our hearts".
He also has links to pages calling for independence for Chechnya, a region of Russia that lost its bid for secession after two wars in the 1990s.
The page also reveals a sense of humor, around his identity as a member of a minority from southern Russia's restive Caucasus, which includes Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia and other predominately Muslim regions that have seen two decades of unrest since the fall of the Soviet Union.
Reds8n has locked the other thread and order us all here to this one. I guess. He didn't say 'WHich' thread we're to go to, but that our thread on it was too long and we needed a shorter one.
Which is sort of backwards compared to... well, most moderation on this board, let alone other boards. Typically it's the longer thread that has been running for a while stays open and the shorter, newer, one gets shut down.
I caught a good part of it. The uncle was like the rabid pro america character from a black and white movie. He'd definitely get on the AMERIKA HURR!!! bandwagon. Excellent.
Yeah, but it's not like they're separate events. It's like having a thread on a gun being fired, and then another one on someone being hit by a bullet.
And, personally, I still think that there are some very big pieces of the picture missing. There's still nothing remotely resembling a motive.
BaronIveagh wrote: Yeah, but it's not like they're separate events. It's like having a thread on a gun being fired, and then another one on someone being hit by a bullet.
And, personally, I still think that there are some very big pieces of the picture missing. There's still nothing remotely resembling a motive.
Plenty of motive. One of the guys YouTube channels was stacked with jihadist crap. Other Islamist indicators as well.
Plenty of motive. One of the guys YouTube channels was stacked with jihadist crap. Other Islamist indicators as well.
No credible source has reported that yet. Mother Jones even states that it's questionable at best atm. Much like the 'twitter feed' from the bombers tweeting as they evade capture.
Facts people, facts.
Edit: Oh for feths sake. Now the politicians are oozing out of the other slime to blame immigrants and Muslims. Every time one of these asshats opens their mouths, I want to post a youtube version of it, dubbed over in German and blue screened against footage of the Nuremberg rallies.
BaronIveagh wrote: Yeah, but it's not like they're separate events. It's like having a thread on a gun being fired, and then another one on someone being hit by a bullet.
And, personally, I still think that there are some very big pieces of the picture missing. There's still nothing remotely resembling a motive.
Plenty of motive. One of the guys YouTube channels was stacked with jihadist crap. Other Islamist indicators as well.
Well, we arn't 100% sure its their Youtube channel. But its definitly strong circumstantial evidence.
Well, we arn't 100% sure its their Youtube channel. But its definitly strong circumstantial evidence.
It's not even close to evidence. I can put any name I like on a youtube account and select a playlist. It doesn't make me the Boston Bomber. So far mainstream news seems to be looking at it as a hoax, and even some of the more far right ones are putting disclaimers on it.
What are the chances of a Youtube account existing with the same name as the suspect that has radical islamic material on it when the suspect in question fits the profile of a radical islamic extremist?
Not sayings its a sure thing, but it is definitly highly unlikely to be a coincidence.
Watching this now, looks like a family member is being interviewed and she's claiming its a conspiracy and wants evidence but not from any agency
See, the initial lack of motivation was weird, but if the suspects were returning fire with police and lobbing bombs at them, it kinda implicates them as bombmakers.
However, the amazon wishlist and youtube channel do seem overly convenient, and makes me wonder if someone has renamed an older version to the list/channel in question to get hits and attention.
See, the initial lack of motivation was weird, but if the suspects were returning fire with police and lobbing bombs at them, it kinda implicates them as bombmakers.
Yeah, innocent people don't simply walk around with homemade bombs, rob SUVs, and shoot at cops.
Doesn't make them the bombers, but it doesn't make them Nobel Peace Prize candidates, either.
darkPrince010 wrote: However, the amazon wishlist and youtube channel do seem overly convenient, and makes me wonder if someone has renamed an older version to the list/channel in question to get hits and attention.
Or people trolling be setting up bogus lists/channels because they think it's funny or to get a little attention.
darkPrince010 wrote: However, the amazon wishlist and youtube channel do seem overly convenient, and makes me wonder if someone has renamed an older version to the list/channel in question to get hits and attention.
Or people trolling be setting up bogus lists/channels because they think it's funny or to get a little attention.
Maybe.
I haven't seen the list so I'm not going to say one way or another, but if the wishlist tracks when you add something to it or when you liked a video on your youtube channel, then it would be really obvious it was a fake as everything would have been liked or added within the span of only the last few days.
However, if the person were to already have a channel or wishlist sitting, and there was no evidence of a name change listed within easy access, then I think renaming an existing "Look at how terrorist-y <Insert Name Here> is" is much more plausible, possibly set up by someone hoping to garner attention off of the latest homicidal nutjob.
Yeah, innocent people don't simply walk around with homemade bombs, rob SUVs, and shoot at cops.
Depends on where you live. Personally, even if innocent of the bombing, if I had my face plastered over the national news as a bomber and mass murderer, I'd have done all those things trying to escape too.
Yeah, innocent people don't simply walk around with homemade bombs, rob SUVs, and shoot at cops.
Depends on where you live. Personally, even if innocent of the bombing, if I had my face plastered over the national news as a bomber and mass murderer, I'd have done all those things trying to escape too.
I'm going to assume your being sarcastic here...
Because you could just do like that teen did and walk to the local police station and clear your name.
Yeah, innocent people don't simply walk around with homemade bombs, rob SUVs, and shoot at cops.
Depends on where you live. Personally, even if innocent of the bombing, if I had my face plastered over the national news as a bomber and mass murderer, I'd have done all those things trying to escape too.
Sanity would not be your strong suit then. Your average innocent person doesn't then kill a school rent a cop and engage in a running gun battle, especially when not charged with anything.
I would think that feeling the need to rob a convenience store might be a strike against the idea that they are supported by any international organization.
Sanity would not be your strong suit then. Your average innocent person doesn't then kill a school rent a cop and engage in a running gun battle, especially when not charged with anything.
As I posted before, I wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. I've seen how New York cops can get in this situation, and if police culture is anything like that in Mass, bluntly, their only chance of being taken alive is to reach another state and turn themselves in to the police someplace else. NYSP had such a hard on for Bucky Phillips that they murdered innocent people in the search for him. (And despite the crime lab findings, the officers who were involved were not even suspended. The 'Blue Wall' came down and all the police recordings for that specific time period were erased).
Sanity would not be your strong suit then. Your average innocent person doesn't then kill a school rent a cop and engage in a running gun battle, especially when not charged with anything.
As I posted before, I wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. I've seen how New York cops can get in this situation, and if police culture is anything like that in Mass, bluntly, their only chance of being taken alive is to reach another state and turn themselves in to the police someplace else.
It's a miracle that other kid that turned himself in is still alive!
d-usa wrote: I would think that feeling the need to rob a convenience store might be a strike against the idea that they are supported by any international organization.
Sanity would not be your strong suit then. Your average innocent person doesn't then kill a school rent a cop and engage in a running gun battle, especially when not charged with anything.
As I posted before, I wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. I've seen how New York cops can get in this situation, and if police culture is anything like that in Mass, bluntly, their only chance of being taken alive is to reach another state and turn themselves in to the police someplace else.
It's a miracle that other kid that turned himself in is still alive!
Indeed, after running the gauntlet of murdering police, he came through remarkably unscathed.
Just updated that the older brother (The deceased one) had a child.
More and more I'm wondering if the father's statement earlier was true, something to the effect of "If the police kill my other son without arresting him and revealing the truth, then I am convinced that they framed them." I understand a gun battle isn't the best way to declare innocence, but it seems very hard to find a solid motive outside of the incredibly-convenient amazon wishlist and youtube channel.
darkPrince010 wrote: Just updated that the older brother (The deceased one) had a child.
More and more I'm wondering if the father's statement earlier was true, something to the effect of "If the police kill my other son without arresting him and revealing the truth, then I am convinced that they framed them." I understand a gun battle isn't the best way to declare innocence, but it seems very hard to find a solid motive outside of the incredibly-convenient amazon wishlist and youtube channel.
The large supply of pipe bombs that they had throw all over the town?
You don't just whip those up in a few hours when your picture gets plastered all over the TV.
Indeed, after running the gauntlet of murdering police, he came through remarkably unscathed.
Yeah, so did Bucky. He only had to escape over the boarder to PA and turn himself in there to cops that didn't recognize him.
Oh, and Frazz, btw: let me guess, you think that everyone who turns up dead in a prison cell hangs themselves or was stabbed by another inmate? If so, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'm looking to sell.
The large supply of pipe bombs that they had throw all over the town?
You don't just whip those up in a few hours when your picture gets plastered all over the TV.
These are the guys.
Depends. Black powder based ones can be made in a few min each. And we have no idea how many (if any) they had. So far we have very little factual information.
darkPrince010 wrote: Just updated that the older brother (The deceased one) had a child.
More and more I'm wondering if the father's statement earlier was true, something to the effect of "If the police kill my other son without arresting him and revealing the truth, then I am convinced that they framed them." I understand a gun battle isn't the best way to declare innocence, but it seems very hard to find a solid motive outside of the incredibly-convenient amazon wishlist and youtube channel.
Yeah, as I said in the other thread,this thing stinks to high heaven. There's some key item here we are not seeing.
But why would an innocent person who's face is mistakenly put on TV get armed, make a bunch of bombs, and then have a shootout with the police?
Sure, maybe they'd run and hide but it seems highly unlikely they would do anything to incriminate themselves and basically admit to the world they're the guys. You'd have to be insane to do something so illogical.
Indeed, after running the gauntlet of murdering police, he came through remarkably unscathed.
Yeah, so did Bucky. He only had to escape over the boarder to PA and turn himself in there to cops that didn't recognize him.
Oh, and Frazz, btw: let me guess, you think that everyone who turns up dead in a prison cell hangs themselves or was stabbed by another inmate? If so, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'm looking to sell.
The large supply of pipe bombs that they had throw all over the town?
You don't just whip those up in a few hours when your picture gets plastered all over the TV.
These are the guys.
Depends. Black powder based ones can be made in a few min each. And we have no idea how many (if any) they had. So far we have very little factual information.
Oh crap, they think I'm the guy who made bombs. Let me make some bombs in case they come for me!
I am a firm believer in "don't talk to the cops without a lawyer". But even I think that "let me kill all the cops so that I can prove I am not a killer" argument is pretty stupid.
Wolf wrote: So are there any updates on the man hunt ? I haven't had muc htime to go searching for updates or anything as I've been doing university work,
So anything to report ?
Nothing really, the authorities being quite mum about the whole thing.
Grey Templar wrote: But why would an innocent person who's face is mistakenly put on TV get armed, make a bunch of bombs, and then have a shootout with the police?
Sure, maybe they'd run and hide but it seems highly unlikely they would do anything to incriminate themselves and basically admit to the world they're the guys. You'd have to be insane to do something so illogical.
I think the joke on one their supposed social media accounts spelled it out:
"A car goes by with a Chechen, a Dagestani and an Ingush inside. Question: who is driving?"
"the police."
You have two people who have (good) reason to be suspicious of cops declared public enemy number 1. If you think you have no chance of surrender, what do you do?
You're all thinking like Americans. Think like someone who comes from a country where the police are more likely to shoot you in the head than arrest you. Because even though they came here a long time ago, that world view is pretty ingrained, because the people that don't think like that get shot.
Grey Templar wrote: But why would an innocent person who's face is mistakenly put on TV get armed, make a bunch of bombs, and then have a shootout with the police?
Sure, maybe they'd run and hide but it seems highly unlikely they would do anything to incriminate themselves and basically admit to the world they're the guys. You'd have to be insane to do something so illogical.
I think the joke on one their supposed social media accounts spelled it out:
"A car goes by with a Chechen, a Dagestani and an Ingush inside. Question: who is driving?"
"the police."
You have two people who have (good) reason to be suspicious of cops declared public enemy number 1. If you think you have no chance of surrender, what do you do?
You're all thinking like Americans. Think like someone who comes from a country where the police are more likely to shoot you in the head than arrest you. Because even though they came here a long time ago, that world view is pretty ingrained, because the people that don't think like that get shot.
Because if you think the police "might" shoot you, the best thing to do is to give them every reason to fill you with bullets?
Grey Templar wrote: But why would an innocent person who's face is mistakenly put on TV get armed, make a bunch of bombs, and then have a shootout with the police?
Sure, maybe they'd run and hide but it seems highly unlikely they would do anything to incriminate themselves and basically admit to the world they're the guys. You'd have to be insane to do something so illogical.
I think the joke on one their supposed social media accounts spelled it out:
"A car goes by with a Chechen, a Dagestani and an Ingush inside. Question: who is driving?"
"the police."
You have two people who have (good) reason to be suspicious of cops declared public enemy number 1. If you think you have no chance of surrender, what do you do?
You're all thinking like Americans. Think like someone who comes from a country where the police are more likely to shoot you in the head than arrest you. Because even though they came here a long time ago, that world view is pretty ingrained, because the people that don't think like that get shot.
Baron.... are you joking? 'cuz my sarcas-o-meter is broken... ?
Baron.... are you joking? 'cuz my sarcas-o-meter is broken... ?
Sadly, no. This is what these guys are thinking right now. The police are going to shoot them out of hand. They're going to do every thing they can to prevent that, including lethal force. As far as the school cop goes, we don't know what happened that led to that. But I can say that they're not trained guys. They're not experts in escape and evade, so they're going to go the brute force path. Until they feel safe, every cop that they see is a target.
I think they really really hated Boston baked beans.
What too soon?
Oh, and Frazz, btw: let me guess, you think that everyone who turns up dead in a prison cell hangs themselves or was stabbed by another inmate? If so, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'm looking to sell.
-I'm the guy who thinks criminals should be thrown into pits with robot killer klowns for my amusement, not sent to prison. I have given no thought or concern at all about that question.
If one is concerned about such a thing they could have gone to any attorney to have them negotiate a surrender, or any news organization. There are a number of ways to surrender to the authorities under scrutiny; believing a running gun battle with explosives is the only way to go is pure insanity.
Oh crap, they think I'm the guy who made bombs. Let me make some bombs in case they come for me!
I am a firm believer in "don't talk to the cops without a lawyer". But even I think that "let me kill all the cops so that I can prove I am not a killer" argument is pretty stupid.
Agreed. I have no love for the popo, but seriously?
What are the chances they could whip up such a significant number of bombs in less than a day?
I could maybe suspend disbelief for them getting armed and involved in a shootout, but bombs? The chance of that just seems way too improbable to believe it.
You are making a whole lot of assumptions, many of which are borderline crazy.
1) You assume they are innocent. Ok, thats fine. Innocent till proven guilty and all that.
2) You assume their first reaction would be to arm themselves when they have been wrongly accused of something. While this may be common with career criminals who usually have multiple violations, and thus even if the initial charge is false they may still go down for something else, it seems unlikely for someone without a criminal record. Much less someone who appears to have had a reasonably decent education and no history of violations.
3) And finally, you assume they would also quickly whip up some bombs in less than a day. They couldn't have had those materials just sitting around, I doubt anyone but the most avid black powder shooter keeps enough of the stuff around to make a handful of bombs. This would have meant they would have had to go a purchase a bunch of it on short notice. I think any store in the immediate area of a recent terror attack that sells blackpowder is going to be suspicious of anyone buying copious amounts of it and probably report it.
"Might" is probably a wrong term to use. From their way of thinking, "likely to" or "almost certainly" would be more accurate. Even though they are no longer in the days of the KGB, Putin still runs the police in very, very questionable ways, as highlighted by the previous treatment of Chechnyan rebels when they took hostages.
If I was pursued by US police outside of Oakland, I would give myself up for arrest, and accept that a broken bone or two from the more "enthusiastic" East-Coast PD is at least better than getting shot.
But if I were being pursued by Russian police, there is every chance in the world I would do my damnedest to get as far away as possible from them and the bullets they would fill me with even if I did surrender.
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Grey Templar wrote: What are the chances they could whip up such a significant number of bombs in less than a day?
If Terminator is anything to go by, they can be whipped up inside of a couple hours...
Ahtman wrote: If one is concerned about such a thing they could have gone to any attorney to have them negotiate a surrender, or any news organization. There are a number of ways to surrender to the authorities under scrutiny; believing a running gun battle with explosives is the only way to go is pure insanity.
Unless they are handloaders (assuming gunpowder boms here) where did they get the boom juice and guns. I mean most people don't have that stuff laying around.
yes, yes, I didn't say myself. I said most people. What next thing you'll be telling me the homemade rocket propelled chainsaw in the closet is illegal er, did I say too much
darkPrince010 wrote: "Might" is probably a wrong term to use. From their way of thinking, "likely to" or "almost certainly" would be more accurate. Even though they are no longer in the days of the KGB, Putin still runs the police in very, very questionable ways, as highlighted by the previous treatment of Chechnyan rebels when they took hostages.
If I was pursued by US police outside of Oakland, I would give myself up for arrest, and accept that a broken bone or two from the more "enthusiastic" East-Coast PD is at least better than getting shot.
But if I were being pursued by Russian police, there is every chance in the world I would do my damnedest to get as far away as possible from them and the bullets they would fill me with even if I did surrender.
Well yeah, it does depend on the police in question.
But these guys have been living here for some time and going to school.
While they may not trust the police just out of habit they almost certaintly know the American police arn't going to shoot them out of hand unless the officers themselves are threatened.
darkPrince010 wrote: "Might" is probably a wrong term to use. From their way of thinking, "likely to" or "almost certainly" would be more accurate. Even though they are no longer in the days of the KGB, Putin still runs the police in very, very questionable ways, as highlighted by the previous treatment of Chechnyan rebels when they took hostages.
If I was pursued by US police outside of Oakland, I would give myself up for arrest, and accept that a broken bone or two from the more "enthusiastic" East-Coast PD is at least better than getting shot.
But if I were being pursued by Russian police, there is every chance in the world I would do my damnedest to get as far away as possible from them and the bullets they would fill me with even if I did surrender.
Ok, DP gets what I'm driving at. You guys have to understand that they're from a place where the police is not the common man's friend. They show up, and you disappear. Assuming they don't simply kill you.
Grey Templar wrote: What are the chances they could whip up such a significant number of bombs in less than a day?
I could maybe suspend disbelief for them getting armed and involved in a shootout, but bombs? The chance of that just seems way too improbable to believe it.
You are making a whole lot of assumptions, many of which are borderline crazy.
1) You assume they are innocent. Ok, thats fine. Innocent till proven guilty and all that.
2) You assume their first reaction would be to arm themselves when they have been wrongly accused of something. While this may be common with career criminals who usually have multiple violations, and thus even if the initial charge is false they may still go down for something else, it seems unlikely for someone without a criminal record. Much less someone who appears to have had a reasonably decent education and no history of violations.
3) And finally, you assume they would also quickly whip up some bombs in less than a day. They couldn't have had those materials just sitting around, I doubt anyone but the most avid black powder shooter keeps enough of the stuff around to make a handful of bombs. This would have meant they would have had to go a purchase a bunch of it on short notice. I think any store in the immediate area of a recent terror attack that sells blackpowder is going to be suspicious of anyone buying copious amounts of it and probably report it.
Its not possible. Seriously. Because of the Obama Bullet Bubble Scare II, reloading supplies have been nonexistent since February. FInding powder right now requires a map, a pirate ship, and taLking parrot.
Well yeah, it does depend on the police in question.
But these guys have been living here for some time and going to school.
While they may not trust the police just out of habit they almost certaintly know the American police arn't going to shoot them out of hand unless the officers themselves are threatened.
Yeah, but panicking people are not rational, they run on instinct. I'm sure when the surviving kid calms down and thinks about it, he's likely to turn himself in.
2 ladies mistaken for Cop-killer-on-the-run Chris Dorner? who were none the less shot at by police officers?
Makes me think why someone who sees their face on national TV as a mass murderer might feel that anyone he turns himself into might turn into a vigilante... Not that it is rational, but I would assume he is operating on fight or flight.. In light of the Dorner story I was surprised the innocent kid strolled into a police station without being turned into swiss cheese in the process...
Not that I think the kid on the run is innocent, he appears guilty, I'm just trying to understand how he is thinking and figured i would chip in 2c
Its not possible. Seriously. Because of the Obama Bullet Bubble Scare II, reloading supplies have been nonexistent since February. FInding powder right now requires a map, a pirate ship, and taLking parrot.
Stores around here are well stocked. I bought ten pounds of FFG powder today. So, depends.
To be honest if they thought the police acted like they did from where they came from, then why would they come here, You wouldnt feel any safer than before so moving to the US would have been pointless.
And since they have lived here for a good few years atleast, and been weel educated (I guess ? ) means they would not just pick up a gun a load of amunition make some bombs and leg it...
Right now the biggest sticking point to me is lack of motive. You have two honors students, one who is a father, and by all accounts seemed normal and levelheaded that spontaneously decided to perform a terrorist attack and stockpile equipment for more of them. The Amazon wishlist and youtube channel stink of fabrication to me, and the facebook doesn't have anything that would lend support to my believing anything more than their sympathy towards Chechnyan rebels. Their choice of target, both location and time, strikes me in no way as supporting or even lending attention to the Chechnyan situation abroad.
Plus, think as to how many end-of-the-world survivalist-types you know who fear "Big Government" coming to take away their guns and/or rights. I personally know three different families who have this way of thinking, one of which that an end-of-days food stockpile (And several firearms), and another that has a literal arsenal (Legally, it's licensed as such), and both with more than enough blackpowder to make a half-dozen pipebombs. By no means is that not grounds for suspicion, but think as to how it would look on national TV if said acquaintances and their collections were trotted out and analyzed on daytime TV?
darkPrince010 wrote: "Might" is probably a wrong term to use. From their way of thinking, "likely to" or "almost certainly" would be more accurate. Even though they are no longer in the days of the KGB, Putin still runs the police in very, very questionable ways, as highlighted by the previous treatment of Chechnyan rebels when they took hostages.
If I was pursued by US police outside of Oakland, I would give myself up for arrest, and accept that a broken bone or two from the more "enthusiastic" East-Coast PD is at least better than getting shot.
But if I were being pursued by Russian police, there is every chance in the world I would do my damnedest to get as far away as possible from them and the bullets they would fill me with even if I did surrender.
Ok, DP gets what I'm driving at. You guys have to understand that they're from a place where the police is not the common man's friend. They show up, and you disappear. Assuming they don't simply kill you.
Are you saying someone who's lived here for TEN YEARS si going to do that at the drop of a hat? Thats not sane.
2 ladies mistaken for Cop-killer-on-the-run Chris Dorner? who were none the less shot at by police officers?
Makes me think why someone who sees their face on national TV as a mass murderer might feel that anyone he turns himself into might turn into a vigilante... Not that it is rational, but I would assume he is operating on fight or flight.. In light of the Dorner story I was surprised the innocent kid strolled into a police station without being turned into swiss cheese in the process...
Not that I think the kid on the run is innocent, he appears guilty, I'm just trying to understand how he is thinking and figured i would chip in 2c
Yeah well, gak happens. The LAPD hasn't had the best track record I'll admit and I still don't understand what happened there. But its most certaintly an outlier.
I'd take my chances with the LAPD over making the situation worse by just incriminating myself by making bombs, having a firefight, and killing an Officer. Even the most scared and panicked individual would know that making a bomb is not going to help his case.
Its not possible. Seriously. Because of the Obama Bullet Bubble Scare II, reloading supplies have been nonexistent since February. FInding powder right now requires a map, a pirate ship, and taLking parrot.
Stores around here are well stocked. I bought ten pounds of FFG powder today. So, depends.
Whats awesome is:
1. Where do you live at?
2. What kind? UniQ? Herakles?
I imagine that if the two women in the truck that was mistakenly identified as the cop hunters had whipped out weapons and bombs and started attacking the police and led them on a chase they would be alive today to sue the living bejesus out of the LAPD.
Are you saying someone who's lived here for TEN YEARS si going to do that at the drop of a hat? Thats not sane.
I refer you to:
and my post about end-of-days nutters. People do stupid gak all the time, especially preparing for stupid never-gonna-happen scenarios. It's no leap of imagination to me that instead of "Stockpile supplies for Armageddon" folks you get in the US, Chechnyans have "Stockpile Supplies for the Secret Police Break-in."
Stupid and paranoid? Certainly, and in this case further implicates them as the bombers (Just like an end-of-days nutter with barrels of food would be looked at with closer scrutiny in the event of a local bulk-dried-goods theft).
Whats awesome is: 1. Where do you live at? 2. What kind? UniQ? Herakles?
Goex. And atm I'm in Pennsylvania.
We'll assume you speaking ze truth here. I've not heard of anyone scoring powder recently, but then again I don't know blackpowder. Now that I think about it - blackpowder? are you a re-enactor? Thats not gunpowder. Would that stuff even make something explode? I mean ok it would but its really really really weak. A lot of smoke yea but as an explosive I've had farts with more power, and that was just today. In the words of the immortal bard smokeles rules and blackpowder drools!
BaronIveagh wrote: Wouldn't it be hilarious if they turn out to have been innocent after all and the real bombers got away in the confusion?
Not that the FBI will ever admit to a screw up that Epic in a million years. They still insist that Leonard Peltier is a cop killer, after all.
Call me heartless, but if they are innocent it will have absolutely zero impact on the death of at least one of them. Whatever innocence he may have had was lost the moment he opened fire on the police.
2 ladies mistaken for Cop-killer-on-the-run Chris Dorner? who were none the less shot at by police officers?
Makes me think why someone who sees their face on national TV as a mass murderer might feel that anyone he turns himself into might turn into a vigilante... Not that it is rational, but I would assume he is operating on fight or flight.. In light of the Dorner story I was surprised the innocent kid strolled into a police station without being turned into swiss cheese in the process...
Not that I think the kid on the run is innocent, he appears guilty, I'm just trying to understand how he is thinking and figured i would chip in 2c
Yeah well, gak happens. The LAPD hasn't had the best track record I'll admit and I still don't understand what happened there. But its most certaintly an outlier.
I'd take my chances with the LAPD over making the situation worse by just incriminating myself by making bombs, having a firefight, and killing an Officer. Even the most scared and panicked individual would know that making a bomb is not going to help his case.
Heh, already said I don't suspect the kid in question is innocent. He seems "guilty as hell" to me personally (as in there should be witnesses to his brother and him in gun fights that would testify, etc) . I was trying to introduce information that seems relevant to how one perceives the police in the US, especially regarding highly publicized recent news stories... someone already mentioned Bucky in NY already.. (where I got the "guilty as hell" from in fact)...
I agree he made the situation worse by doing all of what you mentioned.
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Ahtman wrote: I imagine that if the two women in the truck that was mistakenly identified as the cop hunters had whipped out weapons and bombs and started attacking the police and led them on a chase they would be alive today to sue the living bejesus out of the LAPD.
We'll assume you speaking ze truth here. I've not heard of anyone scoring powder recently, but then again I don't know the PA market.
It's all a matter of knowing which gunshops do the most business. The guys that don't have a lot of heavy business or cater to musket owners still have quite a bit of black powder. Smokeless is harder to come by.
Because he wasn't in a totalitarian state ruled by fear any more. And it took him ten years to get to the point that he trusted the US enough to let his guard down, even a little.
BaronIveagh wrote: Wouldn't it be hilarious if they turn out to have been innocent after all and the real bombers got away in the confusion?
Not that the FBI will ever admit to a screw up that Epic in a million years. They still insist that Leonard Peltier is a cop killer, after all.
Call me heartless, but if they are innocent it will have absolutely zero impact on the death of at least one of them. Whatever innocence he may have had was lost the moment he opened fire on the police.
See, self-defense against unwarranted police brutality is something I have absolutely no problem with. Just because someone is wearing a badge doesn't make the bullets they're firing at you (Presuming you're innocent) any more "right" or less deadly.
We'll assume you speaking ze truth here. I've not heard of anyone scoring powder recently, but then again I don't know the PA market.
It's all a matter of knowing which gunshops do the most business. The guys that don't have a lot of heavy business or cater to musket owners still have quite a bit of black powder. Smokeless is harder to come by.
Because he wasn't in a totalitarian state ruled by fear any more. And it took him ten years to get to the point that he trusted the US enough to let his guard down, even a little.
Yes I was referring to smokeless powder, not blackpowder. Thats really meh as a boomer. too slow.
As to the totolitarian state thing, nah, just live in some bad neighborhoods and you do that, or be raised by a former DI.
Call me heartless, but if they are innocent it will have absolutely zero impact on the death of at least one of them. Whatever innocence he may have had was lost the moment he opened fire on the police.
True, but panicking people rarely think things through. My concern is that hte younger, and probably more rah, of the two might do something really stupid next.
Fraz, I've lived in some really bad places too. But not THIS bad.
Ahtman wrote: Shooting at the police isn't self defense, it is suicide-by-cop.
Depends where you are. A person of my acquaintance was making a hasty exit from a certain Latin American country. They killed and wounded over 20 boarder agents, and lost two men of their own, but managed to get away.
BaronIveagh wrote: Wouldn't it be hilarious if they turn out to have been innocent after all and the real bombers got away in the confusion?
Not that the FBI will ever admit to a screw up that Epic in a million years. They still insist that Leonard Peltier is a cop killer, after all.
Call me heartless, but if they are innocent it will have absolutely zero impact on the death of at least one of them. Whatever innocence he may have had was lost the moment he opened fire on the police.
See, self-defense against unwarranted police brutality is something I have absolutely no problem with. Just because someone is wearing a badge doesn't make the bullets they're firing at you (Presuming you're innocent) any more "right" or less deadly.
You have an interesting view of self defense there. Cops might shoot at me so if they show up I will chunk a grenade at them, because its self defense. Ok....
How about the rent a cop they wacked? How about holding up the convenience store and stealing a car?
BaronIveagh wrote: Wouldn't it be hilarious if they turn out to have been innocent after all and the real bombers got away in the confusion?
Not that the FBI will ever admit to a screw up that Epic in a million years. They still insist that Leonard Peltier is a cop killer, after all.
Call me heartless, but if they are innocent it will have absolutely zero impact on the death of at least one of them. Whatever innocence he may have had was lost the moment he opened fire on the police.
See, self-defense against unwarranted police brutality is something I have absolutely no problem with. Just because someone is wearing a badge doesn't make the bullets they're firing at you (Presuming you're innocent) any more "right" or less deadly.
I think the argument people are making is that when you're allegedly chukking pipe bombs at the police who are pursuing you, you sort of lose your right to claim self defense.
Call me heartless, but if they are innocent it will have absolutely zero impact on the death of at least one of them. Whatever innocence he may have had was lost the moment he opened fire on the police.
True, but panicking people rarely think things through. My concern is that hte younger, and probably more rah, of the two might do something really stupid next.
Fraz, I've lived in some really bad places too. But not THIS bad.
I once stayed at a Motel 6. The horror. The horror.
Call me heartless, but if they are innocent it will have absolutely zero impact on the death of at least one of them. Whatever innocence he may have had was lost the moment he opened fire on the police.
True, but panicking people rarely think things through. My concern is that hte younger, and probably more rah, of the two might do something really stupid next.
Fraz, I've lived in some really bad places too. But not THIS bad.
I once stayed at a Motel 6. The horror. The horror.
Dude... never AGAIN! That damned bed bug ATE my shoes!
I think a lot of you keep coming back to the idea that these guys think the police 'might' shoot them. The idea that they would be almost absolutely certain of it seems to be a concept some of you struggle with.
You have an interesting view of self defense there. Cops might shoot at me so if they show up I will chunk a grenade at them, because its self defense. Ok....
How about the rent a cop they wacked? How about holding up the convenience store and stealing a car?
skyfi wrote:I think the argument people are making is that when you're allegedly chukking pipe bombs at the police who are pursuing you, you sort of lose your right to claim self defense.
Oh, I'm not saying they are innocent. I'm just saying if someone is shooting at you, especially police, they're shooting to kill, and the best way to live is to either get the hell away, or in the words of Malcom Reynolds, "Kill them right back."
Not shooting back won't make cops stop trying to shoot-to-kill if they started doing so already, and given a choice of "Lay down me weapon and let myself die" or "Fire back and have a slim chance of maybe-maybe-maybe making it out of this alive," I'll choose the second option every time.
BaronIveagh wrote: I think a lot of you keep coming back to the idea that these guys think the police 'might' shoot them. The idea that they would be almost absolutely certain of it seems to be a concept some of you struggle with.
Okay you actually surmising that the suspects are actually innocent and that they're freaked out, started shooting, throwing pipe bombs because of their alleged fear of the LEO? And that they're not the true Boston Bombers?
I hope he's brought in alive I'd like some answers.
Also I don't begrudge the relatives for saying those brothers are innocent or were set up. If someone were to tell me that my nephew had killed a load of people and was now on the run I'd call them all liars too.
That said I think their actions are those of guilty men.
BaronIveagh wrote: I think a lot of you keep coming back to the idea that these guys think the police 'might' shoot them. The idea that they would be almost absolutely certain of it seems to be a concept some of you struggle with.
Okay you actually surmising that the suspects are actually innocent and that they're freaked out, started shooting, throwing pipe bombs because of their alleged fear of the LEO? And that they're not the true Boston Bombers?
No, he's not saying that. He's saying that regardless of their innocence, their reactions to cops will be to shoot since their frame of reference regarding cops is that of Whoever Shoots First Wins. The idea of peaceful surrender to cops is a foreign idea to them because in their experience that would be a death sentence almost immediately.
Okay you actually surmising that the suspects are actually innocent and that they're freaked out, started shooting, throwing pipe bombs because of their alleged fear of the LEO? And that they're not the true Boston Bombers?
Until I'm handed something that makes a damn bit of sense in this, yes, I'll assume they're innocent. (Remember Richard Jewel, anyone? The supposed Olympic Park Bomber?)
Again, they didn't make a move until after their picture got splattered all over the TV as the 'guilty' ones. Let me posit this: if thy were really the Boston Bombers, why did they let the guy they car jacked go? The smart thing to do would have been to murder him.
Regardless if they did it or not, the idea of a peaceful surrender to police is as alien to them as the sort of political doublethink that went on in the Soviet Union would be to you.
No, he's not saying that. He's saying that regardless of their innocence, their reactions to cops will be to shoot since their frame of reference regarding cops is that of Whoever Shoots First Wins. The idea of peaceful surrender to cops is a foreign idea to them because in their experience that would be a death sentence almost immediately.
Okay you actually surmising that the suspects are actually innocent and that they're freaked out, started shooting, throwing pipe bombs because of their alleged fear of the LEO? And that they're not the true Boston Bombers?
Until I'm handed something that makes a damn bit of sense in this, yes, I'll assume they're innocent. (Remember Richard Jewel, anyone? The supposed Olympic Park Bomber?)
Again, they didn't make a move until after their picture got splattered all over the TV as the 'guilty' ones. Let me posit this: if thy were really the Boston Bombers, why did they let the guy they car jacked go? The smart thing to do would have been to murder him.
If you are really innocent, then why kill a rent-a-cop and rob a store?
Ma55ter_fett wrote: Also I don't begrudge the relatives for saying those brothers are innocent or were set up. If someone were to tell me that my nephew had killed a load of people and was now on the run I'd call them all liars too.
This is what the family is saying:
An uncle of the two Boston Marathon bombing suspects is urging the surviving suspect, Dzhozkar Tsarnaev, to surrender to authorities.
"Dzhozkar, if you’re alive, turn yourself in and ask for forgiveness from the victims, the injured and those who are left," Ruslan Tsarni said on Friday. "He put a shame on our family. He put a shame on the entire Chechen ethnicity. Turn yourself in."
and
Tsarni said he had not spoken to his nephews in several years and called them "losers" unable to "settle themselves in."
Tsarni said his nephews had no political motives and were not connected to any radical activity in Chechnya, even though the family are ethnic Chechen.
Again, they didn't make a move until after their picture got splattered all over the TV as the 'guilty' ones. Let me posit this: if thy were really the Boston Bombers, why did they let the guy they car jacked go? The smart thing to do would have been to murder him.
You do have a point...
I wonder if they were able to forensically prove that the pipe bombs they found at the brother's house were the same used at the marathon...??
Okay you actually surmising that the suspects are actually innocent and that they're freaked out, started shooting, throwing pipe bombs because of their alleged fear of the LEO? And that they're not the true Boston Bombers?
Until I'm handed something that makes a damn bit of sense in this, yes, I'll assume they're innocent. (Remember Richard Jewel, anyone? The supposed Olympic Park Bomber?)
Again, they didn't make a move until after their picture got splattered all over the TV as the 'guilty' ones. Let me posit this: if thy were really the Boston Bombers, why did they let the guy they car jacked go? The smart thing to do would have been to murder him.
If you are really innocent, then why kill a rent-a-cop and rob a store?
Yeah... that's primary why I think they got the right suspect now... 'cuz, that doesn't line up being terrified of the LEOs.
Again, they didn't make a move until after their picture got splattered all over the TV as the 'guilty' ones. Let me posit this: if thy were really the Boston Bombers, why did they let the guy they car jacked go? The smart thing to do would have been to murder him.
You do have a point...
I wonder if they were able to forensically prove that the pipe bombs they found at the brother's house were the same used at the marathon...??
Keep in mind the "bombs" used in the Watertown shootout are just presumed to be pipe bombs, and that the Boston Marathon bombs were in pressure cookers. I don't know enough about forensics to say whether or not the gunpowder from either explosion can be traced to each other, but the bombs could likely be very different types.
darkPrince010 wrote: Keep in mind the "bombs" used in the Watertown shootout are just presumed to be pipe bombs, and that the Boston Marathon bombs were in pressure cookers. I don't know enough about forensics to say whether or not the gunpowder from either explosion can be traced to each other, but the bombs could likely be very different types.
Sort of hard to throw a pressure cooker, never mind carry several and then throw them
Also a tidbit from the Daily Mail piece in case you think there’s any doubt that they’re guilty:
Alvi Tsarnaev told The (Westchester County, N.Y.) Journal News that his nephew phoned him Thursday night for the first time in about two years.
The call came at 7 p.m., just a couple of hours before Tamerlan was shot dead.
“He said, ‘I love you and forgive me,’ ” said Alvi Tsarnaev, who lives in Montgomery Village, Md.
Huh. Well, should that be verified, that's pretty much a clincher right there, since that would have been well before police pulled up outside, and unless they started whipping up bombs and making final amends when the police search for the suspects was announced, that seems pretty conclusive.
Yeah... that's primary why I think they got the right suspect now... 'cuz, that doesn't line up being terrified of the LEOs.
I think how it played out was this: they freaked out, got out guns and made a few simple bombs. The cop gets shot hours after they're Ided responding to a disturbance. I'm betting they tried to hold up the store for supplies. Notice that no one was shot in the store, but the cop pulls up and gets shot in his car. This starts the ball rolling.
Edit: I read that hte report of additional devices had been discredited.
darkPrince010 wrote: Keep in mind the "bombs" used in the Watertown shootout are just presumed to be pipe bombs, and that the Boston Marathon bombs were in pressure cookers. I don't know enough about forensics to say whether or not the gunpowder from either explosion can be traced to each other, but the bombs could likely be very different types.
Sort of hard to throw a pressure cooker, never mind carry several and then throw them
I just mean that it might not be pipe bombs, and might be a different kind of explosive. I doubt they were chucking cookware out windows, as he was a wrestler and not a Track&Field person.
Yeah... that's primary why I think they got the right suspect now... 'cuz, that doesn't line up being terrified of the LEOs.
I think how it played out was this: they freaked out, got out guns and made a few simple bombs. The cop gets shot hours after they're Ided responding to a disturbance. I'm betting they tried to hold up the store for supplies. Notice that no one was shot in the store, but the cop pulls up and gets shot in his car. This starts the ball rolling.
One thing wrong with that...
. @cbsnews has been told last night’s 7-Eleven robbery in Cambridge, MA was NOT related to the Boston bombing suspects.
— Charlie Kaye (@CharlieKayeCBS) April 19, 2013
So... we still really don't know what the feth is going on...
Edit: I read that hte report of additional devices had been discredited.
The initial reports of extra bombs at the Marathon was discredited, but I think this was for what they found at the house, and I've seen several things about lots of other explosives being found there.
Ma55ter_fett wrote: Also I don't begrudge the relatives for saying those brothers are innocent or were set up. If someone were to tell me that my nephew had killed a load of people and was now on the run I'd call them all liars too.
This is what the family is saying:
An uncle of the two Boston Marathon bombing suspects is urging the surviving suspect, Dzhozkar Tsarnaev, to surrender to authorities.
"Dzhozkar, if you’re alive, turn yourself in and ask for forgiveness from the victims, the injured and those who are left," Ruslan Tsarni said on Friday. "He put a shame on our family. He put a shame on the entire Chechen ethnicity. Turn yourself in."
and
Tsarni said he had not spoken to his nephews in several years and called them "losers" unable to "settle themselves in."
Tsarni said his nephews had no political motives and were not connected to any radical activity in Chechnya, even though the family are ethnic Chechen.
"They've never been to Chechnya!" Tsarni said.
You're right I should have said "...those relatives..." instead of "...the relatives..."
Yeah... that's primary why I think they got the right suspect now... 'cuz, that doesn't line up being terrified of the LEOs.
I think how it played out was this: they freaked out, got out guns and made a few simple bombs. The cop gets shot hours after they're Ided responding to a disturbance. I'm betting they tried to hold up the store for supplies. Notice that no one was shot in the store, but the cop pulls up and gets shot in his car. This starts the ball rolling.
One thing wrong with that...
. @cbsnews has been told last night’s 7-Eleven robbery in Cambridge, MA was NOT related to the Boston bombing suspects.
— Charlie Kaye (@CharlieKayeCBS) April 19, 2013
So... we still really don't know what the feth is going on...
So, wait; So far, are they confirmed to have attacked/killed anyone besides cops so far? (Initial accusations about the Marathon aside)
Because if the only people who they have shot at and/or killed are cops (Especially lent credence by letting the person of the car they jacked go free and untouched), this leads further credence to Baron's theory about their possible innocence and their shooting being related to reactionary actions against police that they are rightfully afraid will kill them as soon as they possibly can.
Edit: I read that hte report of additional devices had been discredited.
The initial reports of extra bombs at the Marathon was discredited, but I think this was for what they found at the house, and I've seen several things about lots of other explosives being found there.
I went to NBC's website and clicked on the headline about the additional IEDs. The article has no mention of them. So...
The description of what the guy said he saw re the running gun battle matches black powder pipe bombs though. They had to light them and throw them, lots of white smoke.
I went to NBC's website and clicked on the headline about the additional IEDs. The article has no mention of them. So...
The description of what the guy said he saw re the running gun battle matches black powder pipe bombs though. They had to light them and throw them, lots of white smoke.
whembly wrote: My point was... we really don't know what the feth is going on... it's all speculation at this point.
I think it's confirmed the they did kill that MIT guard...
Pretty much this. By all means keep an open mind about events going on, especially while the facts are still fluid. But don't be so open minded that your brain falls out
Is it just me or is anyone else surprised at how long it is taking to find this guy? I mean the had a twenty block zone cordoned off at four in the morning (EST) and they still haven't found his trail.
Breotan wrote: Is it just me or is anyone else surprised at how long it is taking to find this guy? I mean the had a twenty block zone cordoned off at four in the morning (EST) and they still haven't found his trail.
He might've gotten away... or he's hiding really good.
Breotan wrote: Is it just me or is anyone else surprised at how long it is taking to find this guy? I mean the had a twenty block zone cordoned off at four in the morning (EST) and they still haven't found his trail.
A room by room search by SWAT and EOD isn't a rushed affair, especially if there are still civilians in the area.
Not all bombs are equal eh? Maybe yours was more concussive than this victim (they had to amputate at least one leg)?
Thank god for spall liners and John James Audubon for making his book so thick. That said...
My point being that we have a description from a bomb victim that was so beat up and on drugs he couldn't speak initially. That's a good start, but if that's all we have... It's not enough to convict, if you follow. Particularly sine we have a literal crowd of thousands of people that were there that day.
Breotan wrote: Is it just me or is anyone else surprised at how long it is taking to find this guy? I mean the had a twenty block zone cordoned off at four in the morning (EST) and they still haven't found his trail.
A room by room search by SWAT and EOD isn't a rushed affair, especially if there are still civilians in the area.
I understand that. It just seems to be a little off that they go from "shootout" to losing him and not being able to find him.
Breotan wrote: I understand that. It just seems to be a little off that they go from "shootout" to losing him and not being able to find him.
If he escapes, I wonder if he'll be looking for gainful employment? I know some guys that would love to give that sort of talent training and on the job experience.
Police claim to have found a pressure cooker and pipe bombs at the suspects house. Which only really says what we already knew.
This bit was interesting:
"Doctors at Beth Israel Medical Center where Tamerlan Tsarnaev died said they treated a man with a possible blast injury and multiple gunshot wounds. Authorities gave no details on how his younger brother escaped."
Weirdly enough, suspect 2 (supposedly) made internet posts that he felt that Beck was right and that the World Trade Center was an inside job by the US Government....
That guy left the US didn't he? Because if he didn't, and that Beck fellow names him and all that...he's going to be in a lot of danger when he just wants to live his life.
FBI is firing flash bangs, though not sure why they are lobbing in flash bangs
They could just be trying to thoroughly disorient him before they move in to try to apprehend him.
I've used a flash bang from my military days, generally one is more then enough then you rush in. Only thing I can imagine is they are using flash bangs to mask troop movement but the scanner isnt mentioning anything like that
