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Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 18:29:41


Post by: Alfndrate


From my email:

You may have heard the rumors ... and now we're excited to announce that Malifaux 2nd Edition (M2E) is coming!

Malifaux 2nd Edition will be pre-released August 15 (during Gen Con 2013) with a general release by October. In the mean time we plan to tease you with new art, new models, new characters, and the ... Public Beta for Malifaux 2E.



Malifaux 2nd edition is coming! If you want to be one of the first to play it and provide input, we'll be having a public Beta for your shuffling pleasure. (More details on the Beta below.)

What are some of the features of 2nd edition to look forward to?

Streamlined, Updated Ruleset.

Clarified rules interactions and Model Actions.

Upgrade Your Models / Customize Your Crew.

That's right, keep your favorite model fresh and competitive for years to come.

New Masters.

From the current Henchmen getting promoted, to fresh faces like Tara, the Herald of Obliteration!

Gremlins a Faction?

You bet!

Easier to Read Card Format.

Every model updated to a new, easier to read format. No more searching through the books. The cards are standard sized as well, making them easy to sleeve for dry erasing.

Story Moves Forward.

Find out what happens to your favorite characters, see the new alliances formed, and discover new Tyrants!

FAQ.

For those of you who never got enough of the rules-love, we'll be moving to an FAQ system updated on a set schedule! No more searching the forums for rulings.

We'll keep you updated with more details over the next few months.


In addition, there is going to be a public beta
What

Play Malifaux with your friends! See the new rules online as soon as they're available. This will be your chance to give feedback.

Who

Anyone! No previous Malifaux experience required.

When

Starting May 31

How

Watch the new Public Beta section in our forums. Access the rules, ask questions, give feedback, and interact with other Malifaux enthusiasts.
Public Beta Forum


[size=20]Released Images:[/img]
Rasputina and Crew:


(Stripper Heel) Lady Justice and Crew:


Marcus and Crew:


Pandora and her Woes:


Bayou Gremlins "Symbol"?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 18:35:18


Post by: Lansirill


You know, when you're only out $30 on the rulebook... it doesn't sting anywhere NEAR as bad when a new edition of the rules is released a year later. I'll have to stick my nose into the public beta, should be fun.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 18:37:00


Post by: Alfndrate


 Lansirill wrote:
You know, when you're only out $30 on the rulebook... it doesn't sting anywhere NEAR as bad when a new edition of the rules is released a year later. I'll have to stick my nose into the public beta, should be fun.


It should be, and while I'm excited about some of the things I've experienced with malifaux... I have a sinking feeling in my gut about it... Probably because every game I've played hasn't had a major edition change since I started, but 40k and fantasy...

Don't mind me, August is a ways away


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 18:37:18


Post by: Scrub


Hmm, been meaning to get into this game for a while as I love the Ten Thunder figs... Well, I guess Christmas time will be the perfect opportunity to have a go!


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 18:42:20


Post by: cincydooley


 Lansirill wrote:
You know, when you're only out $30 on the rulebook... it doesn't sting anywhere NEAR as bad when a new edition of the rules is released a year later. I'll have to stick my nose into the public beta, should be fun.


Sounds like you'll also need new cards.

Hopes for the cards:

1. You can buy them in Faction Packs like they did with WM/H Vol 2
2. They're coated so you can use dry erase pens on the right away.
or
2b. They're a normal size that fit in normal sleeves so I don't have to laminate them all.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 18:46:38


Post by: decker_cky


cincydooley wrote:
 Lansirill wrote:
You know, when you're only out $30 on the rulebook... it doesn't sting anywhere NEAR as bad when a new edition of the rules is released a year later. I'll have to stick my nose into the public beta, should be fun.


Sounds like you'll also need new cards.

Hopes for the cards:

1. You can buy them in Faction Packs like they did with WM/H Vol 2
2. They're coated so you can use dry erase pens on the right away.
or
2b. They're a normal size that fit in normal sleeves so I don't have to laminate them all.


Or 3. Wyrd offers affordable sleeves that fit the cards.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 18:50:13


Post by: warboss


When did the first edition come out?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 18:52:15


Post by: Alfndrate


 warboss wrote:
When did the first edition come out?


GenCon ish, 2009


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 18:56:32


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


 cincydooley wrote:
 Lansirill wrote:
You know, when you're only out $30 on the rulebook... it doesn't sting anywhere NEAR as bad when a new edition of the rules is released a year later. I'll have to stick my nose into the public beta, should be fun.


Sounds like you'll also need new cards.

Hopes for the cards:

1. You can buy them in Faction Packs like they did with WM/H Vol 2
2. They're coated so you can use dry erase pens on the right away.
or
2b. They're a normal size that fit in normal sleeves so I don't have to laminate them all.


UNless I misunderstood, the release said they'd be normal size. However given the info already on them, the large number of special abilities most figures have, and that they are going to include the rules for glossary terms on the cards, everything is going to need multiple cards or they are going to have to strip out some abilities. I'd take mroe clutter over a blander game.

5 x 3.5" photo card holders work well for Malifaux. I got 100 off ebay for like 12 dollars shipped.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 19:01:54


Post by: spiralingcadaver


Bossk_Hogg wrote:
UNless I misunderstood, the release said they'd be normal size. However given the info already on them, the large number of special abilities most figures have, and that they are going to include the rules for glossary terms on the cards, everything is going to need multiple cards or they are going to have to strip out some abilities. I'd take mroe clutter over a blander game.


Agreed on what it sounded like and assessment.

One thing to note, though, is that 1/4 of most cards is currently taken up by a picture of the model...


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 19:23:09


Post by: Gertjan


Well, only time will tell how it'll turn out I have to admit I am both optimistic and kind of curious to see where they will take the game aswell as me having a bit of a feeling of dread. New editions have not always been a very good/fun thing. But from what Wyrd has given us so far I'm trying to let the positive thinker in me win.

I'm wondering what the impact will be with regards to what we have now, willt he old books be completely invalidated or merely not as accurate anymore, will we have to get new cards etc etc. Time will tell, I just hope they keep the change to a minimum on that front so the old stuff won't be completely invalidated.



Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 19:28:51


Post by: chaos45


The game needed a re-balancing...from the get go balance has been a massive issue. My guess is they will use the new edition to try to fix things.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 19:34:51


Post by: Alfndrate


chaos45 wrote:
The game needed a re-balancing...from the get go balance has been a massive issue. My guess is they will use the new edition to try to fix things.


O.o Strange, with the exception of a single master, I didn't notice balance issues. to each their own though And if I get more balance, then that's a good thing of course


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 19:36:06


Post by: warboss


 Alfndrate wrote:
 warboss wrote:
When did the first edition come out?


GenCon ish, 2009


Thanks. It felt newer than that. Four years is definitely on the earlier edge or reasonable for the lifespan of an edition but it's still in there.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 19:36:06


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I suspect it may be in part at least a way to allow them integrate the upcoming RPG more easily

First edition was obviously made with no thought of the RPG (supposedly due September), 2nd edition has presumably had at least some thought put into how to tie them together more easily


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 19:51:08


Post by: rikowal


A good day has been made ever better! I can't wait!


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 19:54:25


Post by: decker_cky


 Alfndrate wrote:
chaos45 wrote:
The game needed a re-balancing...from the get go balance has been a massive issue. My guess is they will use the new edition to try to fix things.


O.o Strange, with the exception of a single master, I didn't notice balance issues. to each their own though And if I get more balance, then that's a good thing of course


Faction to faction (how the game is balanced), there's overall solid balance. But there's distict tiers of balance, where book 1 stuff is weaker, book 2 stuff is more powerful, and book 3 is once again similar to book 1. Book 2 needed a number of balancing erratas, and book 4 seems to be pretty close to the post-errata power level of book 2. There's exceptions to the rule in all the books, but it's notable how many bad choices there is in book 1 and 3, that essentially are replaced by something better in one of the stronger books.

There's similar issues in a number of the schemes, but not divided by books. Some schemes will always be easy, others very difficult. Tournaments usually disallow duplication of schemes, so where you have both good master specific schemes and faction specific schemes overlapping, it can be a problem. On the other hand, there's a number of useless master specific schemes, or incredibly hard faction specific schemes. Then looking at general schemes, there's a big divide - some schemes can be made impossible for your opponent by sacrificing or killing a friendly model.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 19:58:33


Post by: Alfndrate


decker_cky wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
chaos45 wrote:
The game needed a re-balancing...from the get go balance has been a massive issue. My guess is they will use the new edition to try to fix things.


O.o Strange, with the exception of a single master, I didn't notice balance issues. to each their own though And if I get more balance, then that's a good thing of course


Faction to faction (how the game is balanced), there's overall solid balance. But there's distict tiers of balance, where book 1 stuff is weaker, book 2 stuff is more powerful, and book 3 is once again similar to book 1. Book 2 needed a number of balancing erratas, and book 4 seems to be pretty close to the post-errata power level of book 2. There's exceptions to the rule in all the books, but it's notable how many bad choices there is in book 1 and 3, that essentially are replaced by something better in one of the stronger books.

There's similar issues in a number of the schemes, but not divided by books. Some schemes will always be easy, others very difficult. Tournaments usually disallow duplication of schemes, so where you have both good master specific schemes and faction specific schemes overlapping, it can be a problem. On the other hand, there's a number of useless master specific schemes, or incredibly hard faction specific schemes. Then looking at general schemes, there's a big divide - some schemes can be made impossible for your opponent by sacrificing or killing a friendly model.


I guess I'm saying this as someone that plays Malifaux weekly with a variety of masters from all the books, and who faces a variety of masters. I rarely find myself as "outmatched" with my stuff.

Like I said, to each their own. Some people think it's unbalanced, I (and with my experiences), have found Malifaux to be fairly well balanced.

Edit: Source - I have 1/6th of the posts in the Dakka Malifaux Boards... (I have no life D: )


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 20:02:51


Post by: bbb


I've been collecting Malifaux since Christmas 2009 and have only ever played half a game, so I hope that the 2nd edition goes well and brings in new players and keeps the game alive.

Hopefully they will have better proofreading in 2nd edition than they had at the start of 1st.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 20:12:41


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


It also sounds like we may get some kind of mini campaign rules to advance characters between battles, ala Mordheim.

Any guesses on new masters/henchmen? Nekima seems logical. Myranda, Samael and Rusty Alice? With gremlins moving to a full faction, they would need several new masters/henchmen as well.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 20:14:09


Post by: decker_cky


 Alfndrate wrote:
I guess I'm saying this as someone that plays Malifaux weekly with a variety of masters from all the books, and who faces a variety of masters. I rarely find myself as "outmatched" with my stuff.

Like I said, to each their own. Some people think it's unbalanced, I (and with my experiences), have found Malifaux to be fairly well balanced.

Edit: Source - I have 1/6th of the posts in the Dakka Malifaux Boards... (I have no life D: )


I haven't played nearly as much as you. I agree that overall, the game is pretty balanced, but you're being wilfully blind if you don't think there's some obvious balance issues in the game.

Put it this way: Do you feel a slate ridge mauler provides real value for the cost compared to a rail golem? Does a sabertooth cerberus really compare with a blessed of december? Is there any reason for anyone to ever take Latigo Pistoleros? Is there a use for a malifaux child? How is the ice golem worth it's cost compared to anything else? Because there's other new models to fill in the holes, it isn't a real issue, but that doesn't change the fact that there's issues with the old rules. Wyrd has gotten better at designing rules in the system since they started, and the comparison shows it.

Likewise, the balance between hidden and open schemes is skewed heavily towards hidden. Not a game balance issues, since both players can do the same thing, but it is a design balance issue, since there's choices that there's really no reason to take.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 20:20:54


Post by: Motograter


This could certainly see me playing again only if they do faction cards though as shipping for new cards is a total rip off


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 20:31:07


Post by: Alfndrate


decker_cky wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
I guess I'm saying this as someone that plays Malifaux weekly with a variety of masters from all the books, and who faces a variety of masters. I rarely find myself as "outmatched" with my stuff.

Like I said, to each their own. Some people think it's unbalanced, I (and with my experiences), have found Malifaux to be fairly well balanced.

Edit: Source - I have 1/6th of the posts in the Dakka Malifaux Boards... (I have no life D: )


I haven't played nearly as much as you. I agree that overall, the game is pretty balanced, but you're being wilfully blind if you don't think there's some obvious balance issues in the game.


It's not being willfully blind if I honestly don't see the balance issues, I'm not refusing your idea (thus why I said in my experiences, see it's up there in my quote ), I'm simply saying that in my play experiences that the game doesn't have glaring issues, with the exception of the uphill battle I've had against a Zoraida/Collodi crew (which is what I said in my first post, that with the exception of 1 master).


Put it this way: Do you feel a slate ridge mauler provides real value for the cost compared to a rail golem? Does a sabertooth cerberus really compare with a blessed of december? Is there any reason for anyone to ever take Latigo Pistoleros? Is there a use for a malifaux child? How is the ice golem worth it's cost compared to anything else? Because there's other new models to fill in the holes, it isn't a real issue, but that doesn't change the fact that there's issues with the old rules. Wyrd has gotten better at designing rules in the system since they started, and the comparison shows it.


You make an lot of comparisions, and I've played a lot of Malifaux, I find myself taking an Ice Golem with my Rasputina crew, but that's due to my lack of models for her, my Tina list rarely varies beyond Tina, 2 Silent Ones, 2 Ice Gamins, 1 Golem, 1 Essence of Power, and I've seen people take Slate Ridge Maulers over the Ice Golem, and I've seen both Ice Golems and Blessed of December (granted this was 1 time and it was in the Cake Tournament at AdeptiCon). I know that there was issue with the power levels of the Book 1 Masters and models vs. Book 2, 3, and 4, but I run Book 1 Masters 75% of the time, and I rarely lose (often draw).

Likewise, the balance between hidden and open schemes is skewed heavily towards hidden. Not a game balance issues, since both players can do the same thing, but it is a design balance issue, since there's choices that there's really no reason to take.


On the competitive side of things, you'll see the exact opposite. Most players will take 2 schemes, and announce them both, because schemes are generally easy enough to earn that not announcing them screws you out of 1 to 2 VP. There was actually a decently heated (read: good back and forth) discussion a few months ago about this very topic, and making hidden schemes "worthy" to take.


Again, all of this goes back to personal play experiences. And as I also said in my post, more balance is NEVER a bad thing, I'm just saying that I personally don't experience unbalanced Malifaux play.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/04/30 23:56:07


Post by: Motograter


I am on my phone so I cant do pics but bols or wyrd website with m2 has a picture of the new rasputina art which I assume will be her plastic box set. Very, very nice looking!


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 00:11:00


Post by: Bolognesus


...Isn't that a puppet rather than new malifaux box set art? either I'm looking at another pic or that seems rather... chibi?
Also: F&*%*(%%, guess which box set I'm just painting up now... oh well at least I can hold off on purchasing rules for a few months (the PDFs will get me by)!

edit and yes, I **definately** had the wrong picture in mind.
right one is here:


aaand, I might have to get that for the totem, and an actually somewhat sensibly dressed rasputina. Good going there, if the models will match the art in any way.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 01:33:40


Post by: Lalochezia


Lots of info for anyone who wants to listen:

http://malifools.podbean.com/2013/04/30/episode-42a-its-a-coming/

http://tartanskirmish.podbean.com/2013/04/30/ep-23-malifaux-20-interview/

http://throughthebreach.com/blog/?p=167

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?31233-Malifaux-2-0-Unveiled!&p=301100#post301100


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I suspect it may be in part at least a way to allow them integrate the upcoming RPG more easily

First edition was obviously made with no thought of the RPG (supposedly due September), 2nd edition has presumably had at least some thought put into how to tie them together more easily


Quite a bit of thought, yeah.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 01:37:10


Post by: Alfndrate


Lalochezia is available for bribery I hear, he takes the world's best spinning chairs in trade for promo art.

Sadly, I cannot afford such a steep price.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 01:39:37


Post by: Lalochezia


 Alfndrate wrote:
Lalochezia is available for bribery I hear, he takes the world's best spinning chairs in trade for promo art.

Sadly, I cannot afford such a steep price.


Don't believe everything you hear.











I take money, too.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 02:11:49


Post by: Alfndrate


 Lalochezia wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
Lalochezia is available for bribery I hear, he takes the world's best spinning chairs in trade for promo art.

Sadly, I cannot afford such a steep price.


Don't believe everything you hear.


I was gonna say... Nilus and Nix lied to me D:

Also, I set an AdeptiCon record, I set my cake on fire during the cake match . Go me.










I take money, too.

Have you no morals?


Edit: I'll see if I can't get some information from Wyrd's forums tomorrow... If anyone has a chance to listen to the interviews that Lalo posted above, could you post some tasty tidbits from those interviews?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 03:04:23


Post by: WUWU


Yaaay, good news. Malifaux need a new edition update about two years ago hah. Lets hope they hire some quality editors/rule lawyers.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 08:54:24


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


WUWU wrote:
Yaaay, good news. Malifaux need a new edition update about two years ago hah. Lets hope they hire some quality editors/rule lawyers.


+1.

Whereabouts did that Rasputina picture come from? Any more like that floating about?

Are avatars going to be part of the main rulebook now?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 10:26:59


Post by: streetsamurai


what's the quality on malifaux plastic.

They seem absolutely terrified of showing any actual mini on theyr website, so I guess it's not too good


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 11:31:48


Post by: Bolognesus


Oh it's quite good, actually. detail can be somewhat shallow but not due to tooling quality; the mini's are just a bit more understated than you might have come to expect from GW&co.
What you see in the renders is faithfully replicated in plastic.

@Fenrir hidden away in the BoLS link earlier in the thread; took an account there to view it (which I why I rehosted it here; was annoyed enough at having to make an acc myself ).
Some folks already hinted at that pic which is why I went looking for it.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 11:39:30


Post by: Lostchaplain


I'm looking forward to this. In spite of the bad experience I had with the company at Gencon I really love this game, and can't wait for a cleaner set of rules and better balance. With any luck, Wyrd will take a note from Battlefront and have a 'trade in' program that gets you a small-format rulebook if you already have the old one. I thought that was pure class that Battlefront did that with the release of the most recent addition.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 11:41:57


Post by: Alfndrate


streetsamurai wrote:
what's the quality on malifaux plastic.

They seem absolutely terrified of showing any actual mini on theyr website, so I guess it's not too good


Lol, Wyrd can't please anyone . They used to just show unpainted minis, and then people were like, "give us painted minis!" and so they did. And then people were like, "you're covering up flaws with painted minis, we want to see unpainted." So when they switched over to plastic, they gave you the 3d renders of the models, with are about 90% representative of the detail and quality.

They're very similar to GW plastics, and extremely similar to Wargames Factory products (since I believe that is who is doing their casting).


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 11:42:18


Post by: SoulDrinker


I've heard from my local shop that the cards will be available through retail as faction packs/decks for anyone who was worried about that so it's all good news!!!!!

The Plastics are great - the new crews are just as good as the old ones in terms of miniature quality and I always use metal base inserts to add that bit of weight so you just can't go wrong with malifaux at the moment


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 11:47:18


Post by: streetsamurai


Probably will give it another try when the new edition will come out. Was playing it when it first was released, but lost interest quickly. The renders of some of theyr new plastic are great, and since it seem the quality is good,at worst it will give me a couple of cool mini.

Someone mentionned a campaign system for the setting. I doubt it would be really elaborated, since most miniature are so specialised that any advance would seriously unbalance the whole game.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 12:09:55


Post by: Alfndrate


streetsamurai wrote:
Probably will give it another try when the new edition will come out. Was playing it when it first was released, but lost interest quickly. The renders of some of theyr new plastic are great, and since it seem the quality is good,at worst it will give me a couple of cool mini.

Someone mentionned a campaign system for the setting. I doubt it would be really elaborated, since most miniature are so specialised that any advance would seriously unbalance the whole game.


Wyrd actually just released Campaign rules in their latest issue of Wyrd Chronicles, a free magazine that comes out once every other month. They're pretty solid rules, and have advancement on the characters, what happens when they die, equipment you can purchase. They're pretty solid rules, we're in the middle of a campaign at my store right now.

Edit: And with Mack writing the rules (from what I hear), it wouldn't be too hard to do something like that anyways, they're already looking at incorporating rules to convert your Through the Breach characters into Malifaux models for the wargame.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 14:24:30


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


 Bolognesus wrote:
Oh it's quite good, actually. detail can be somewhat shallow but not due to tooling quality; the mini's are just a bit more understated than you might have come to expect from GW&co.
What you see in the renders is faithfully replicated in plastic.


IMO the plastics are a mixed bag, but this is due to the inexperience of the digital sculptors, rather than the material itself. They dont understand that something might look good when blown up to 50 times the size on a computer monitor looks terrible on the tabletop. The facial features on some are just nonexistant on pieces I have (Hanging tree corpses, Jacob Lynch, Beckoners) compared to the older models. Its also lead to differing proportions of some minis, and bits that are simply too thin (hanging tree rope, beckoner pony tail) to be practical. One of the tree ropes was snapped in the package, and two of the others didnt survive assembly/painting. Others look great IMO, particularly Tannin and Graves and the illuminated.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 14:58:52


Post by: decker_cky


IMO, it's only the lynch crew, lazarus and the hanging tree that were weaker sculpts. Everything else I've seen was really solid. The other sculpts are not perfect, but they're very well done from what I've seen.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 15:01:07


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Wow....

War-gear? Pre-measuring, casting duels are now just opposed duels....?

Sounds like sweeping changes that still aren't focused on the inherent imbalances of asymetrical objectives.

I LOVE Malifaux 1.5 and don't look to it to be balanced, just fun.... but it sounds like they're making an unrecognizable game.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 15:22:00


Post by: Forar


My crew and I (6 players, been in for the last year and a half, 4 half were heavily into WH years ago) have had mixed reactions, from "cautiously optimistic" to "the end is nigh".

Apparently there's a lot of info floating around in podcasts (I may be showing my age here, but I kind of dislike those as a primary info source, prefer written text I can plow through in 5-15 minutes, rather than listen to 5 hours of podcasts to get the same info, oh well people are transcribing as we speak), and at the end of the month we'll all get a glut of new info and stats and some fears will be quenched while others are given full form.

I think what I'm most interested in will be the comparison between the 'beta' and what goes 'live' in August. As in, how much feedback can they take, and what changes can they make in the couple of months they'll have (at most) before the printers need to start shotgunning out giant piles of books and cards for transport in August and wider distribution shortly thereafter.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 15:40:14


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Forar wrote:
My crew and I (6 players, been in for the last year and a half, 4 half were heavily into WH years ago) have had mixed reactions, from "cautiously optimistic" to "the end is nigh".

Apparently there's a lot of info floating around in podcasts (I may be showing my age here, but I kind of dislike those as a primary info source, prefer written text I can plow through in 5-15 minutes, rather than listen to 5 hours of podcasts to get the same info, oh well people are transcribing as we speak), and at the end of the month we'll all get a glut of new info and stats and some fears will be quenched while others are given full form.

I think what I'm most interested in will be the comparison between the 'beta' and what goes 'live' in August. As in, how much feedback can they take, and what changes can they make in the couple of months they'll have (at most) before the printers need to start shotgunning out giant piles of books and cards for transport in August and wider distribution shortly thereafter.



Well, the problem is, in said Podcast, the designers coyly suggest that they've already locked down 90% of the rules, and won't really take TOO much feedback from players.

More disappointingly, the really interesting asymmetrical aspect to the game, which was so narratively interesting, won't be fixed, it'll be shelved... There are only FIVE strategies now, and they're ALWAYS shared.

Also, you're forced to pick from a pool of five random schemes per game now.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 15:44:15


Post by: Alfndrate


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
 Forar wrote:
My crew and I (6 players, been in for the last year and a half, 4 half were heavily into WH years ago) have had mixed reactions, from "cautiously optimistic" to "the end is nigh".

Apparently there's a lot of info floating around in podcasts (I may be showing my age here, but I kind of dislike those as a primary info source, prefer written text I can plow through in 5-15 minutes, rather than listen to 5 hours of podcasts to get the same info, oh well people are transcribing as we speak), and at the end of the month we'll all get a glut of new info and stats and some fears will be quenched while others are given full form.

I think what I'm most interested in will be the comparison between the 'beta' and what goes 'live' in August. As in, how much feedback can they take, and what changes can they make in the couple of months they'll have (at most) before the printers need to start shotgunning out giant piles of books and cards for transport in August and wider distribution shortly thereafter.



Well, the problem is, in said Podcast, the designers coyly suggest that they've already locked down 90% of the rules, and won't really take TOO much feedback from players.

More disappointingly, the really interesting asymmetrical aspect to the game, which was so narratively interesting, won't be fixed, it'll be shelved... There are only FIVE strategies now, and they're ALWAYS shared.

Also, you're forced to pick from a pool of five random schemes per game now.


Please say this isn't true :(


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 15:52:31


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Alfndrate wrote:


Please say this isn't true :(



http://throughthebreach.com/blog/?p=167

Its all right there.


I will say... I'm torn. I LOVE Mack Martin, who is co-designing Malifaux 2.0. I think Dust Warfare is grossly under-appreciated and he's a talented designer.

That said, EVERY Malifaux 2.0 change so far, inherently seems to be reducing the specific areas that make Malifaux something OTHER than a me-to skirmish game.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 16:03:03


Post by: Forar


Huh.

Strats I'm not too broken up about. Shared starts means that the crews are pretty much guaranteed to have to interact (as opposed to the rare occurrence where you could mostly just ignore your opponent and they might even ignore you, at least until one of you decided that an 8/8 tie wasn't acceptable).

5 schemes, and randomized? Look, there are a ton of imbalanced schemes (Kidnap, I'm looking very pointedly at you) and some are harder than they need to be or boarderine useless (far too difficult compared to others), but that's drastic alright.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 16:05:40


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Well, and schemes are being exaggerated in importance, now being worth a total of eight potential points.

This means schemes are actually the majority of points and thus a focus for winning the game, but you're forced into pulling your two from that random pool of five, so you might legitimately have a game that feels miserable from the moment you've sat down at the table.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 16:34:24


Post by: spiralingcadaver


 Forar wrote:
Huh.

Strats I'm not too broken up about. Shared starts means that the crews are pretty much guaranteed to have to interact (as opposed to the rare occurrence where you could mostly just ignore your opponent and they might even ignore you, at least until one of you decided that an 8/8 tie wasn't acceptable).

5 schemes, and randomized? Look, there are a ton of imbalanced schemes (Kidnap, I'm looking very pointedly at you) and some are harder than they need to be or boarderine useless (far too difficult compared to others), but that's drastic alright.

+1

I really don't care much about the strategies, because they were random anyways, but the schemes were really fun: they did a lot of stuff to make the game more interesting (and were part of why Leveticus was catapulted from "why would anyone field this loser?" to "ooh, I get it now. I want to try something mechanically unconventional"). Really hope it isn't true, or they change their minds.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 16:37:16


Post by: Elemental


 Forar wrote:
5 schemes, and randomized? Look, there are a ton of imbalanced schemes (Kidnap, I'm looking very pointedly at you) and some are harder than they need to be or boarderine useless (far too difficult compared to others), but that's drastic alright.


Could that be 5 per faction, or 5 per master? The faction and master specific schemes were really characterful, when they weren't broken (Off the top of my head, Zoraida, Kirai, Pandora and Lady Justice all had ones that were "Just like Assassinate, only harder!")


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 16:37:16


Post by: spiralingcadaver


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Well, and schemes are being exaggerated in importance, now being worth a total of eight potential points.

This means schemes are actually the majority of points and thus a focus for winning the game, but you're forced into pulling your two from that random pool of five, so you might legitimately have a game that feels miserable from the moment you've sat down at the table.

Well, if you have five of them and are required to take 2, it seems like they've got to make them less specific, I'd imagine, since there's a 40% chance you get any given scheme (meaning, say, if that cripples a master, that master would be competitively useless).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Elemental wrote:
 Forar wrote:
5 schemes, and randomized? Look, there are a ton of imbalanced schemes (Kidnap, I'm looking very pointedly at you) and some are harder than they need to be or boarderine useless (far too difficult compared to others), but that's drastic alright.


Could that be 5 per faction, or 5 per master? The faction and master specific schemes were really characterful, when they weren't broken (Off the top of my head, Zoraida, Kirai, Pandora and Lady Justice all had ones that were "Just like Assassinate, only harder!")

Oh, 5 random per faction would much better. Don't like random, but that'd be way more acceptable...


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 16:44:26


Post by: decker_cky


It could even be 5 random per faction with a 6th master specific scheme, or something like that.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 16:53:45


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
 Forar wrote:
My crew and I (6 players, been in for the last year and a half, 4 half were heavily into WH years ago) have had mixed reactions, from "cautiously optimistic" to "the end is nigh".

Apparently there's a lot of info floating around in podcasts (I may be showing my age here, but I kind of dislike those as a primary info source, prefer written text I can plow through in 5-15 minutes, rather than listen to 5 hours of podcasts to get the same info, oh well people are transcribing as we speak), and at the end of the month we'll all get a glut of new info and stats and some fears will be quenched while others are given full form.

I think what I'm most interested in will be the comparison between the 'beta' and what goes 'live' in August. As in, how much feedback can they take, and what changes can they make in the couple of months they'll have (at most) before the printers need to start shotgunning out giant piles of books and cards for transport in August and wider distribution shortly thereafter.



Well, the problem is, in said Podcast, the designers coyly suggest that they've already locked down 90% of the rules, and won't really take TOO much feedback from players.

More disappointingly, the really interesting asymmetrical aspect to the game, which was so narratively interesting, won't be fixed, it'll be shelved... There are only FIVE strategies now, and they're ALWAYS shared.

Also, you're forced to pick from a pool of five random schemes per game now.


Boo-urns! Sure, some didnt see use. But I liked that you could win through ways other than just simply marching across and smashing the other guy's face.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 17:01:48


Post by: Forar


Hell, I've won at least one game after being wiped off the table.

Which, to be fair, may still be possible with the update.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 17:08:08


Post by: Alfndrate


 Forar wrote:
Hell, I've won at least one game after being wiped off the table.

Which, to be fair, may still be possible with the update.


That was a selling point

Don't like getting tabled and auto-losing? Try Malifaux, where you can get wiped off the board, and still win!


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 17:09:56


Post by: chaos0xomega


Some cool info here but more importantly:

Whats the story about the new puppet wars? i believe unstitched is due out this month right?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 17:20:56


Post by: decker_cky


BTW, with the rules being 90% locked down, that's only sensible. Sounds like for the most part, the core mechanics are remaining. They've messed with the schemes, strategies and soulstones, and cleaned up a lot of the messy stuff (eg, roll all of the FAQs into the core mechanics through better written rules) but overall it's the same game. There's maybe potential to shift how the new things work, but in the timeline given, all there's really the potential to change is the details of strategies and schemes, and the details on particular cards which have become either dull or unbalanced.

The people in the current private beta may have a better shot at pushing things like bringing back individual strategies if the game feels lacking.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 17:35:10


Post by: Alfndrate


decker_cky wrote:
BTW, with the rules being 90% locked down, that's only sensible. Sounds like for the most part, the core mechanics are remaining. They've messed with the schemes, strategies and soulstones, and cleaned up a lot of the messy stuff (eg, roll all of the FAQs into the core mechanics through better written rules) but overall it's the same game. There's maybe potential to shift how the new things work, but in the timeline given, all there's really the potential to change is the details of strategies and schemes, and the details on particular cards which have become either dull or unbalanced.

The people in the current private beta may have a better shot at pushing things like bringing back individual strategies if the game feels lacking.


Too bad the people in the current private beta are buttoned down from talking about anything. Quickest way out of a private beta is to talk about said beta in a place that is watched by that company's employees... The second quickest way is to work for another game company (my woe)


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 17:38:21


Post by: decker_cky


 Alfndrate wrote:
Too bad the people in the current private beta are buttoned down from talking about anything. Quickest way out of a private beta is to talk about said beta in a place that is watched by that company's employees... The second quickest way is to work for another game company (my woe)


Talking to non-participants is disallowed, but I assume that there's lots of feedback that will get posted for devs and other playtesters in the beta forum. Non-participants are testing the rules, so would just be noise anyways.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 17:40:45


Post by: Alfndrate


decker_cky wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
Too bad the people in the current private beta are buttoned down from talking about anything. Quickest way out of a private beta is to talk about said beta in a place that is watched by that company's employees... The second quickest way is to work for another game company (my woe)


Talking to non-participants is disallowed, but I assume that there's lots of feedback that will get posted for devs and other playtesters in the beta forum. Non-participants are testing the rules, so would just be noise anyways.


Sorry, misread the last line in your post >_< This is what I get when I transition from SQL to real people words.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 17:41:30


Post by: Gertjan


Hmm, so far the changes don't seem very, positive imo. Butm trying to stay optimistic, and well, if the changes suck, I'll happily keep on playing the old rules so only thing missing will be any new masters which to be honest isn't a big miss at the moment since there are plenty current masters unplayed in my small group of people.

Really trying to stay positive, but it's not very easy with what I hear so far :( But I guess time will tell. Maybe that's the problem with modern day wargaming, to many rumours going around to get worked up about before even knowing what it'll end up being like. Sort of coloring the perception to much to give something a chance.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 18:39:22


Post by: Lalochezia


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
 Forar wrote:
My crew and I (6 players, been in for the last year and a half, 4 half were heavily into WH years ago) have had mixed reactions, from "cautiously optimistic" to "the end is nigh".

Apparently there's a lot of info floating around in podcasts (I may be showing my age here, but I kind of dislike those as a primary info source, prefer written text I can plow through in 5-15 minutes, rather than listen to 5 hours of podcasts to get the same info, oh well people are transcribing as we speak), and at the end of the month we'll all get a glut of new info and stats and some fears will be quenched while others are given full form.

I think what I'm most interested in will be the comparison between the 'beta' and what goes 'live' in August. As in, how much feedback can they take, and what changes can they make in the couple of months they'll have (at most) before the printers need to start shotgunning out giant piles of books and cards for transport in August and wider distribution shortly thereafter.



Well, the problem is, in said Podcast, the designers coyly suggest that they've already locked down 90% of the rules, and won't really take TOO much feedback from players.

More disappointingly, the really interesting asymmetrical aspect to the game, which was so narratively interesting, won't be fixed, it'll be shelved... There are only FIVE strategies now, and they're ALWAYS shared.

Also, you're forced to pick from a pool of five random schemes per game now.


I don't think there were any coy suggestions. What was said was that drastic changes to the core rules would be off the table once the rules go to the public beta. (i.e. the way soulstones work, etc). The reason for this is that it is impossible to design with a moving target in mind. Now, core rules which can be changed are clarity issues and balance issues (making certain schemes easier/harder, etc). What the playtest will focus on is model to model balance. Do you think a model costs too much/too little? Certain abilities need to be rewritten/removed? Think of a cool new ability a master should have? That's all very valid feedback, and changes will most certainly be made because of it. Frankly, if a game gets to a public beta stage with a month and a half before print, and the core mechanics are still swinging wildly, someone hasn't done their job.

The asymmetric play is not being shelved. Wyrd recognized that having two totally asymmetric strategies was impossible to balance. So, the standard encounter chart includes only shared strategies. But there will also be a story encounter section included with asymmetric strategies, with the understanding that the game is not balanced around the story encounter chart, it will provide that interesting, flavorful mechanic for those who want it.

As for the schemes, you have it basically right, but I'm not sure you made it entirely clear. There are 19 different schemes, and before the game 5 are randomly determined and from those 5, the players choose 2. In this way Malifaux still has a wide variety of interesting schemes, but randomly determining which ones will be available before the game creates more varied play. Players leave their comfort zones a bit. How often now do you see people taking hold out/bodyguard every other pick-up game? That's the sort of thing that this system will prevent.

Finally, schemes are being increased in VP value on the standard chart. This is both to make taking unannounced schemes more desirable (you hardly ever see that in competitive play) and to keep the fun, asymmetric dynamic of Malifaux in the standard encounter section. The shared strategy will force some interaction, but with the increased importance on schemes, players can still stick to their objectives and not just "kill everything" as has often been touted about Malifaux. Finally, the strategies scoring at the end of every turn instead of the end of the game greatly helps with this.

Hope that clears some things up.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 18:45:24


Post by: Motograter


If people are after more info and like myself don't listen to podcasts etc the wyrd website currently has many threads on malifaux 2.0


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 18:47:42


Post by: Lalochezia


chaos0xomega wrote:
Some cool info here but more importantly:

Whats the story about the new puppet wars? i believe unstitched is due out this month right?


This month, yeah.

What would you like to know?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 18:48:37


Post by: Alfndrate




Who are you masked man to have such knowledge of this game


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 19:16:04


Post by: decker_cky


 Lalochezia wrote:
As for the schemes, you have it basically right, but I'm not sure you made it entirely clear. There are 19 different schemes, and before the game 5 are randomly determined and from those 5, the players choose 2. In this way Malifaux still has a wide variety of interesting schemes, but randomly determining which ones will be available before the game creates more varied play. Players leave their comfort zones a bit. How often now do you see people taking hold out/bodyguard every other pick-up game? That's the sort of thing that this system will prevent.

Finally, schemes are being increased in VP value on the standard chart. This is both to make taking unannounced schemes more desirable (you hardly ever see that in competitive play) and to keep the fun, asymmetric dynamic of Malifaux in the standard encounter section. The shared strategy will force some interaction, but with the increased importance on schemes, players can still stick to their objectives and not just "kill everything" as has often been touted about Malifaux. Finally, the strategies scoring at the end of every turn instead of the end of the game greatly helps with this.


This sounds much better than the initial tidbits I had heard. Both the semi-random schemes (still would love master specific schemes mixed in there), and the strategies being a per turn bonus are ideas that I like conceptually. The rest (eg, increased scheme VP) seems like mostly balancing issues, so I trust those to be done well.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 19:35:01


Post by: spiralingcadaver


 Lalochezia wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Some cool info here but more importantly:

Whats the story about the new puppet wars? i believe unstitched is due out this month right?


This month, yeah.

What would you like to know?

Well, I'd like to know what sort of compatibility/update options there are for those of us who have the first edition...


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 19:47:49


Post by: nix2825


 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Well, I'd like to know what sort of compatibility/update options there are for those of us who have the first edition...


That was actually answered in a couple of the podcasts and videos. Basically, none. V2 is the way forward with no backwards compatibility.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 20:01:19


Post by: spiralingcadaver


So, no access to a new card/rules bundle or anything like that?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 20:40:52


Post by: Lalochezia


 spiralingcadaver wrote:
 Lalochezia wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Some cool info here but more importantly:

Whats the story about the new puppet wars? i believe unstitched is due out this month right?


This month, yeah.

What would you like to know?

Well, I'd like to know what sort of compatibility/update options there are for those of us who have the first edition...


For Puppet Wars? The rules will be free online, so if you want to use your old stuff with updated rules, you can.

For Malifaux 2.0, faction decks of stat cards will be for sale.



Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 21:03:11


Post by: spiralingcadaver


Puppet wars. So, clarifying, there is no way to get a printed version of the new material separate of the boxed game?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 22:17:37


Post by: Lalochezia


 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Puppet wars. So, clarifying, there is no way to get a printed version of the new material separate of the boxed game?


Correct.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/01 22:30:13


Post by: spiralingcadaver


Oh, well. That's the first thing Wyrd's done that's really annoyed me :/

The supposed support of Puppet Wars was nearly negligible, and now second edition doesn't even update the game for players who played the first. I feel kind of like a chump for the $200+ I dropped on the game.

I also feel like it's pretty dishonest to keep stock of the first edition on the web store without any clear notice about the imminent and incompatible second release


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 11:52:14


Post by: Alfndrate


Alright, so Eric Johns from Wyrd had a bit of a Q&A session yesterday on Twitter to alleviate some questions about 2nd ed... here is what was said to him, and how he responded:

Mark B asked: What is your favorite change in the new Malifaux?
EricJ Answered: The upgrade system. Adds so much depth to the system which allows you to tailor your crew the way you'll most enjoy playing them.

Several People Asked: What about cards?
EricJ Answered: About cards. Yes, everything will get a 2e card. Yes, you have to buy them. Yes, we are working to make that as painless for you as possible.

Alan R asked: Can we expect some new model releases at GenCon? If so, roughly how many per faction? New masters, etc...?
EricJ Answered: Yes there will be new models at GenCon... no promises about who or how many... but we're working with the goal of LOTS!

Jon B asked: Can you tell us one minion who is getting promoted to Henchman?
EricJ answered: Joss will be a new Henchman

@ForceVoid asked something (twitter isn't showing me)
EricJ answered: Included in my top 3 goals during design of 2e was to make sure the character of our characters stayed rich and flavorful.

@Aeth_1904 asked about outcasts in regards to the departure of Gremlins from the faction.
EricJ answered: Outcasts have their departing Gremlins replaced by new masters such as the promoted Von Schill, and Tara, Herald of Obliteration

Chris H asked: Will we get digital versions of the new faction decks?
EricJ answered: Our goal is to have a digital option for cards/rules...in time.

@BadMalifauxer asked: Will Marcus be more effective at his beast shenanigans?
EricJ answered: Marcus will be getting some special attention. He's always been one of my favorites!

Ryan C asked: Will the shift to upgrades mean that almost any master can be a viable starter box for new players? Dreamer for example.
EricJ answered: There will be variation in learning curves, but 2e is designed to be scalable to fit your preferences or experience level.

Kristian K asked: Will there be a collective pool for the factions to choose [upgrades] fro, or are they specific to separate models?
EricJ answered: Both

Sean S asked: I felt the terrain/LoS rules in v1 were a little fidgety. Will they be cleaned up in v2?
EricJ answered: We've put a lot of time and effort into cleaning up terrain/LoS, so I really hope it comes out working a ton better in 2e.

@Arkenfel asked about Nekima being promoted to henchman.
EricJ answered: Nekima the henchman has a good ring to it, don't you think? Regardless of that, she'll be getting some special attention.

Dave asked: can you hint on how gremlins will be expanded to full faction [status]? Ophelia to master level? New master? New Henchman?
EricJ answered: Multiple new Gremlin masters and giant piles of new gremlins, pigs, roosters, along with drink related puns and memorabilia.

I'm personally still not 100% sold on it, but I didn't think that Eric could give away the house on that little Q&A session. I'm just waiting for the public beta now... (seriously May, hurry the feth up, I'd like to try 2nd ed).


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 12:16:31


Post by: Gertjan


Actually, that sounds pretty good so far, along with the explanation on the strategy/schemes. My hopes are getting a bit higher.

Not very keen on the fact that I have to get the cards all over again, but it's an expense I am willing to make if the game has improved, can't be as bad as uhm, saaay, buying a new codex.

The only thing I truly do not like are the upgrades. That just sounds like a munchkin mechanism, at least, in my experience that is what they usually end up being. But the rest sounds pretty good. Guess now all I have to decide is whether I should get the 3rd book before it goes out to have the collection complete or just forget about it since it'll be not very usefull anymore in a while


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 12:37:15


Post by: Alfndrate


 Gertjan wrote:
Actually, that sounds pretty good so far, along with the explanation on the strategy/schemes. My hopes are getting a bit higher.

Not very keen on the fact that I have to get the cards all over again, but it's an expense I am willing to make if the game has improved, can't be as bad as uhm, saaay, buying a new codex.

The only thing I truly do not like are the upgrades. That just sounds like a munchkin mechanism, at least, in my experience that is what they usually end up being. But the rest sounds pretty good. Guess now all I have to decide is whether I should get the 3rd book before it goes out to have the collection complete or just forget about it since it'll be not very usefull anymore in a while


The biggest thing with the upgrades depends on how "busy" the cards are going to be in the next edition. Let's use Pandora as an example, Pandora has lots of abilities that I use, and some that I don't. If Pandora has all of those abilities, and then upgrades let her get abilities x, y, and z, then I can see it being cumbersome, but if Pandora has fewer abilities in the new addition, and say a Neverborn upgrade lets me get Terrifying 13, another gives me Obey, and a third gives me +1wk, it would let me play Pandora how I want to play her (hopefully ).

We'll have to see of course


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 12:45:35


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


It sounds (from the above) like the digital versions of the new cards may not appear at launch which seems a shame for those that may not want to immediately invest in new cards


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 12:46:24


Post by: Gertjan


I didn't even take into consideration how it would work with the upgrades possibly being on the cards actually. I just made the assumption that they would be in the books, seeing as some of them are specific and more general upgrades. If they want to keep the cards easy to read I could well imagine those not being listed there.

I don't know, customizability around where I play usually means scraping the bottom of the barrel for power options rather than anything else really, sadly enough. That is the only reservation I have about upgrades, it could be a lot of fun, but knowing some of the people playing here it will be abused where possible :(


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 12:55:12


Post by: Alfndrate


OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:It sounds (from the above) like the digital versions of the new cards may not appear at launch which seems a shame for those that may not want to immediately invest in new cards


Yeah :-\ I'd love it if they did a WarRoom sort of app, but Wyrd probably won't do such a thing. I'd pay 60 bucks like I did with WarRoom for a Malifaux App that updates for life. Also it should be noted that Malifax 1.5 (current rules) will be tournament legal until January 2014, so you've got all of October (public release of 2nd ed), November, and December to play 1.5 in tournaments, and dabble with 2nd edition on the side.

Gertjan wrote:I didn't even take into consideration how it would work with the upgrades possibly being on the cards actually. I just made the assumption that they would be in the books, seeing as some of them are specific and more general upgrades. If they want to keep the cards easy to read I could well imagine those not being listed there.

I don't know, customizability around where I play usually means scraping the bottom of the barrel for power options rather than anything else really, sadly enough. That is the only reservation I have about upgrades, it could be a lot of fun, but knowing some of the people playing here it will be abused where possible :(


I know, I mean I'd love it if they would give us a sneak peak of a minion and show us 1st edition vs 2nd edition, and perhaps what the upgrades look like, so we could compare.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 13:29:44


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Lalochezia wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Some cool info here but more importantly:

Whats the story about the new puppet wars? i believe unstitched is due out this month right?


This month, yeah.

What would you like to know?


What changed, whats in the box, and how long will we have to wait for the "boosters" to come out?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 14:33:28


Post by: Seismic


 SoulDrinker wrote:
I've heard from my local shop that the cards will be available through retail as faction packs/decks for anyone who was worried about that so it's all good news!!!!!

The Plastics are great - the new crews are just as good as the old ones in terms of miniature quality and I always use metal base inserts to add that bit of weight so you just can't go wrong with malifaux at the moment


Yer I heard that from my FLGS too . Could be a good thing, although I could probabily see people selling the cards they dont want on ebay which could see sales of those packs go down. Also screws up people who have one or 2 masters of each faction.

Still really looking forward to the game though Hopefully they'll buff Kirai (i find her rubbish) HAHAHAHAHA only kidding!


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 15:54:14


Post by: Emperors_Champion


I'm personally not a fan of upgrade systems cause they usually allow for more dull op cheese but if we're only talking 2/3 extras per leader then perhaps we're safe!

As for the card decks, this is a massive plus to me! While I love most of the models there are a few that I'd rather proxy but haven't as I prefer to have the cards. I'm also a bit of a rules/combo nerd so having a single deck to flick through rather than 4 books will be a lot easier! So if I can buy a deck of the whole Faction then I'll be a happy bunny! (Although, this is putting me off starting my 3rd Faction just yet, until we see some hint of price for the decks!)

My guesses for "promoted" mods will be, Bete Noire, Judge, Rust Alyce and . . . . . Hooded Rider! oh, also hoping for a Molly fix!

But so far so good!


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 16:28:38


Post by: Gertjan


To be honest, I don't even care what models they would promote, if the new mini's of the old crews will be anything like the drawings on the first page of this thread (rasputina) I'll be blowing my budget on buying the masters I have again in plastic.

I was going to stop buying to reduce the amount of unpainted mini's but I think now I'll simply stop to be able to save up for the other crews coming out again if they will be anything like that, it's a good incentive to finally get going on a gaming board in the meantime though. I think I might actually slowly get a bit enthusiastic about this, even though there is this nagging doubt somewhere in my mind stiif abotu those upgrades.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 17:12:54


Post by: Ignatius-Grulgor


I was really put off of starting malifaux when I saw how they handled the RPG kickstarter, though a second edition does somewhat draw me back into the 'temptation zone'. Would this mean all of the current rulebooks become invalid as anything but a source of fluff?


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 17:21:54


Post by: Alfndrate


Correct, the current rulebooks would be invalidated much like mk1 books for warmahordes, or old editions of codices.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 18:11:57


Post by: Killionaire


Malifaux needed this badly. I'm very interested.

I own something like 5 gangs, 2 of which are invincible if played right (Colette, Leviticus). Hopefully, their card and rule changes will make the game much less rock-paper-scissorsy at the high end with specific gangs.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 18:16:25


Post by: Motograter


All i hope for is that faction decks are released. Its all very well being told painless as possible but does that mean for everyone or not. Currently to get replacement cards they expect extortionate shipping so unless they do faction decks its likely this will just go away


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 18:17:58


Post by: Alfndrate


Motograter wrote:
All i hope for is that faction decks are released. Its all very well being told painless as possible but does that mean for everyone or not. Currently to get replacement cards they expect extortionate shipping so unless they do faction decks its likely this will just go away


As painless as possible: Faction decks that can be written on with wet/dry erase markers that can easily be bought through a UK/EU/ROW distro


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/02 19:18:51


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Killionaire wrote:
Malifaux needed this badly. I'm very interested.

I own something like 5 gangs, 2 of which are invincible if played right (Colette, Leviticus). Hopefully, their card and rule changes will make the game much less rock-paper-scissorsy at the high end with specific gangs.


If you think those crews are unbeatable, you're playing with the wrong gamers. ;-) Levi, for example, requires a tremendous coordination, and while you're doing your waif immortality tricks, you're likely not scoring VP. At my club, Levi players regularly get rolled. :-p

That said, there are definitely "tiers" of power to the Masters, but I feel like the game could have been fixed in several ways that didn't involved such sweeping changes.... especially hit-or-miss changes like war-gear which has ruined as many game's balance as it has helped.

Also, for a game looking to improve accessibility, clarity, etc... adding a bunch of pre-match paper-work to loading our crew just sounds annoying.

I guess this means Lucas McCabe is a prototype for 2.0, in a sense, what with having to load out him, and wastrels.... expanding this to every unit in the game? Eh.... we'll see.


Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/07 01:24:04


Post by: Absolutionis


Not my blog, but I found this nice compilation/summary of information presented thus far in the various podcasts:
http://hearusgeek.blogspot.com/2013/04/malifaux-20-confirmed.html


  • The original minion versions of Misaki and Hamelin will no longer be playable in M2E due to their promotions to Masters. The models will be playable as the masters, and Justin has said that those are the only "models" that won't be getting rules upgrades. Insignificant models are now referred to as Peons. Existing Henchmen will be upgraded to Masters, characters like the Judge will now be labeled as Henchmen. The various ranks allow certain numbers of upgrades, negating my previous guess about being master-specific.

  • Ca is going to be spell-specific rather than model-specific, to allow models to be better at some spells than others without needing a wall of text on the card. Casting duels now work the same way as normal combat duels. There's still a CC target number, but casting is an opposed duel where the defender flips at the same time.

  • It sounds like the upgrade mechanic is going to be focused on Masters, allowing you to customize a bit so a mirror match isn't necessarily identical...

  • Pre-measuring will be allowed.

  • Masters have 3 AP across the board now. Sounds like rules like Melee Expert are going to apply more to minions now.

  • Red Joker now does Severe+Weak rather than Severe+flip. Flipping the Red Joker now prevents the opponent from cheating.

  • Timing of conditions are now always spelled out instead of defaulting to the Resolve Effects step.

  • Soulstones are now spent before a duel to add a + to the flip; if used defensively they also add a - to the damage flip. You can soulstone before a flip to add a suit. Soulstones can also be spent to cycle two cards after drawing your hand at the start of the turn.

  • 50 SS games are recommended. Most model costs will likely go up a bit to allow for more variance in cost-to-power ratios. Starter boxes may add up to 30 on average rather than 25...

  • Brawls sound like they'll be relegated to story encounters now.

  • Avatars restricted to games of 40ss or higher. Avatars now have different costs rather than a flat 2ss.

  • Manifesting now works the same way across the board: When the master activates, you flip a card (cheatable). That card goes in a Manifest Stack. Each avatar has a Manifest cost (e.g. 30), and when the total of the stack hits that number, you manifest. When the avatar takes damage, you discard a card fro mthe stack, and when the stack hits 0, the avatar turns back into the regular master. Manifest rules still subject to change.

  • Strategies now work as in GG2013, and schemes can be worth up to 4 VP each.

  • Strategies are now shared across the board, schemes are now more important in order to maintain the asymmetric gameplay dynamic. Schemes can now be worth more unannounced this way. Old strategies are likely to work into story encounters rather than the core list now. 19 schemes, flip to create a pool of 5 schemes for both players to pick from. Keeps players from camping the same schemes without forcing "unique schemes". Any model that can Interact can do that to drop a Scheme marker. Accomplishing Schemes rely on the markers, which allow for bluffing with unannounced schemes. Sounds like the objective-based gameplay is maintained through the schemes more than the strats.


  • Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/07 05:58:00


    Post by: spiralingcadaver


    Cool, thanks for the re-post... some cool changes, though I'm not sure variable casting scores fits with the streamlining...


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/07 08:34:58


    Post by: Gertjan


    Thanks for that post, most of that sounds pretty good. Especially the average SS going up to better balance ss costs of models. Vert simple yet effective way of balancing games out a bit. (Personally to me that was always the biggest blunder with 3rd 40k, reducing points cost).

    Not sure I like the idea of adding SS's before flipping, makes it a bit more random and I kind of liked the calculating nature of the game with cheating/ss. But, who knows, might work out just fine, it really is something one has to play in ordre to feel how it works properly.

    Upgrading, nope, still sounds like a bad idea. Avatars, well, again, have to see how it plays during a game but sounds pretty good so far. Changes on the red joker mechanism are quite good imho.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/07 14:38:41


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


    Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.

    Also, they already had it where masters could be better at some spells than others. It was the required total to cast it...

    Is there even a point to the public playtest? If the books are being released at Gen Con in August, they're already at the printers


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/07 14:41:31


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.

    Also, they already had it where masters could be better at some spells than others. It was the required total to cast it...

    Is there even a point to the public playtest? If the books are being released at Gen Con in August, they're already at the printers


    Public playtest is probably for smoothing out things, and seeing how the game runs on a wide level...

    Avatar manifestation makes more sense now, as long as they also change the way the manifest clock works....

    And I was a head of the curve, for the longest time I thought the Judge was a Henchman (before I really knew the rules )... Guess who's right now

    Also kind of sad that my Lady J/Lucious crew isn't as viable anymore :(


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/07 16:35:14


    Post by: spiralingcadaver


    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.

    Also, they already had it where masters could be better at some spells than others. It was the required total to cast it...

    Is there even a point to the public playtest? If the books are being released at Gen Con in August, they're already at the printers

    1: not sure on this, definitely loosing character, but you could end up with a ton of objectives to keep track of, and I'm kind of feeling like manifest requirements were too much. Maybe if they just had one instead of two that might have been a good middle ground...

    Re: casting, I believe what this represents is something like how Rotten Belles currently have special rules for casting one of their spells. Since how spells work is

    attacker duels for target number --> defender duels vs. attacker's set number

    changing the starting point can have things where it's easy to succeed and difficult to counter or difficult to succeed and easy to counter

    re: printing time and play testing- good point, that will be cutting it pretty close.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/07 21:29:11


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


     Alfndrate wrote:
    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.

    Also, they already had it where masters could be better at some spells than others. It was the required total to cast it...

    Is there even a point to the public playtest? If the books are being released at Gen Con in August, they're already at the printers


    Public playtest is probably for smoothing out things, and seeing how the game runs on a wide level...


    Gen Con is August 15th, 2.5 months from the start of the public playtest. Its my understanding that the books are going tio be on sale at Gen Con (please correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, the rules are almost assuredly already at the printer, and the books will be sitting in a warehouse by the time any meaningful public playtest feedback could possibly be compiled and acted upon. Unless they're just going to dump all the printed books, I dont see how the playtest has a chance to smooth anything out.


    Avatar manifestation makes more sense now, as long as they also change the way the manifest clock works....


    I dont think it necessarily makes mroe sense. Just flipping to reach 30 faster might be simpler (but then so is chucking a fistful of d6's and counting all your 4+'s), but what does that even represent? It makes sense from a thematic perspective that the avatar of glottony and the avatar of insanity and the avatar of justice manifest differently. Its taking a flavorful mechanic and jettisoning it for the equivalent of "War". They could tighten the rules up, sure. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and replacing it with non delicious baby flavored tap water is pretty dull in comparison.


    And I was a head of the curve, for the longest time I thought the Judge was a Henchman (before I really knew the rules )... Guess who's right now

    Also kind of sad that my Lady J/Lucious crew isn't as viable anymore :(


    2 master campaign maybe?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/08 16:08:19


    Post by: Myth


    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.


    The old version was definitely more flavorful - but unfortunately also hard to balance. Some conditions were trivial, and could be automatically accomplished by turn 2. Others required a ton of luck, or really specific circumstances, or factors beyond a player's control.

    One of Malifaux's biggest strengths was definitely how much flavor went into every single card and ability on that card. But at the same time, having so many abilities and so much to keep track of could get awfully tricky. I can't tell you how many times I forgot about some minor ability a model might have! I wouldn't be surprised if part of the goal of the new edition is to try and find a better balance between flavor and function - see if they can make things a bit less fiddly, and a bit easier to keep track of, while still keeping their flavor and fun.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/08 16:20:26


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    Gen Con is August 15th, 2.5 months from the start of the public playtest. Its my understanding that the books are going tio be on sale at Gen Con (please correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, the rules are almost assuredly already at the printer, and the books will be sitting in a warehouse by the time any meaningful public playtest feedback could possibly be compiled and acted upon. Unless they're just going to dump all the printed books, I dont see how the playtest has a chance to smooth anything out.


    As someone that was involved in the Storm of Shadows playtest, I can assure you I was still testing models into late June and into early July for a book that was expected to be released at GenCon, not available for pre-release at GenCon...


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/08 16:25:52


    Post by: Forar


    You may have been testing, but did any feedback during that time actually make it into the book? Or was it just reaffirming/triple checking that nothing absolutely broken slipped through the cracks?

    Obviously the August demands are going to be much smaller than a world wide release, but even hundreds of books take time to print and ship.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/08 16:27:50


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Forar wrote:
    You may have been testing, but did any feedback during that time actually make it into the book? Or was it just reaffirming/triple checking that nothing absolutely broken slipped through the cracks?

    Obviously the August demands are going to be much smaller than a world wide release, but even hundreds of books take time to print and ship.


    Lots of feedback went was taken into consideration... I no longer have access to that forum so I can't give solid proof on anything beyond the 1 mechanic I remember testing a lot...

    Forar, PM incoming.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/08 18:13:45


    Post by: Lalochezia


    Books go to print mid July and they get there at Gen Con. Air shipping is involved, but it happens.

    There really isn't any point in running a playtest for a game that has already gone off to print. At that point all we would be doing is giving the game away for free. Which, I guess in the grand scheme, there are worse suspicions for people to have.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/08 18:13:57


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


     Alfndrate wrote:
    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    Gen Con is August 15th, 2.5 months from the start of the public playtest. Its my understanding that the books are going tio be on sale at Gen Con (please correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, the rules are almost assuredly already at the printer, and the books will be sitting in a warehouse by the time any meaningful public playtest feedback could possibly be compiled and acted upon. Unless they're just going to dump all the printed books, I dont see how the playtest has a chance to smooth anything out.


    As someone that was involved in the Storm of Shadows playtest, I can assure you I was still testing models into late June and into early July for a book that was expected to be released at GenCon, not available for pre-release at GenCon...


    Where are Wyrd's books and cards printed? Unless its in house, those books were 99.99% likely to have been printed by that point. Even in house, they'd be drying ink with a hairdryer before gen con lol.

    I've got no problems with a pre-release rules teaser to drive interest, but they shoudln't call it a playtest.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Forar wrote:
    You may have been testing, but did any feedback during that time actually make it into the book? Or was it just reaffirming/triple checking that nothing absolutely broken slipped through the cracks?

    Obviously the August demands are going to be much smaller than a world wide release, but even hundreds of books take time to print and ship.


    The wide release is in/before October. The books that are going to be released by October are going to be from the same print run as the ones available at the Gen Con release. It takes time to go from Wyrd's warehouses to distributors to retail. It doesnt make sense to do a small print run, then a larger one a few weeks later, since you're losing bulk job discount pricing.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/08 19:08:44


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
     Alfndrate wrote:
    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    Gen Con is August 15th, 2.5 months from the start of the public playtest. Its my understanding that the books are going tio be on sale at Gen Con (please correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, the rules are almost assuredly already at the printer, and the books will be sitting in a warehouse by the time any meaningful public playtest feedback could possibly be compiled and acted upon. Unless they're just going to dump all the printed books, I dont see how the playtest has a chance to smooth anything out.


    As someone that was involved in the Storm of Shadows playtest, I can assure you I was still testing models into late June and into early July for a book that was expected to be released at GenCon, not available for pre-release at GenCon...


    Where are Wyrd's books and cards printed? Unless its in house, those books were 99.99% likely to have been printed by that point. Even in house, they'd be drying ink with a hairdryer before gen con lol.

    I've got no problems with a pre-release rules teaser to drive interest, but they shoudln't call it a playtest.


    See Lalo's post just above yours, he answers it pretty well... And knows far better than I do.


    Also I'm expecting a few Bayou Gremlins waiting outside my house when I get home based on my statements in this thread, and his presence here now. Hopefully the Lalochezia, Avatar of Baby Gremlins will hit his new manifest counter thing-y and I shall be spared his wrath.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/08 22:03:05


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


     Lalochezia wrote:
    Books go to print mid July and they get there at Gen Con. Air shipping is involved, but it happens.

    There really isn't any point in running a playtest for a game that has already gone off to print. At that point all we would be doing is giving the game away for free. Which, I guess in the grand scheme, there are worse suspicions for people to have.[/quote

    Dang, that is some impressively fast TAT on the printers! Good to know feedback isnt entirely pointless.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/08 23:19:50


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


     Alfndrate wrote:
    Bossk_Hogg wrote:


    Also kind of sad that my Lady J/Lucious crew isn't as viable anymore :(


    A henchman once gave me a piece of advice... run Lucius as as Lady J Henchman, but build a crew as if he was Master. I haven't lost a game since. :-p My Ortegas were tough, but Lucius, Lady J, Guild-Riflemen, a Drill Sargeant.... are just silly. :-p


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/09 13:17:44


    Post by: Alfndrate


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
     Alfndrate wrote:

    Also kind of sad that my Lady J/Lucious crew isn't as viable anymore :(


    A henchman once gave me a piece of advice... run Lucius as as Lady J Henchman, but build a crew as if he was Master. I haven't lost a game since. :-p My Ortegas were tough, but Lucius, Lady J, Guild-Riflemen, a Drill Sargeant.... are just silly. :-p


    Oh I know, my statement of Lady J/Lucius crew not being as viable is because Lu is being upgraded to a Master in 2nd edition. There was a quote on the previous page (near the bottom) that said all current henchmen are being upgrade to Masters, Minion Hamelin and Minion Misaki are also being removed due to their master versions sticking around.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/12 20:10:29


    Post by: Absolutionis


    New illustration of Lady Justice's group (now with more Ghost Rider):

    Assuming:
    Scales of Justice, Judge, (Ghost Rider) Death Marshal x3, (Stripperheel Ninja) Lady Justice

    And for those that missed it, Rasputina's crew:
    Spoiler:


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/12 20:50:20


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    The current Death Marshalls are still serviceable, although I will confess I might want that new Lady J.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/13 03:27:21


    Post by: Guildsman


    As someone who has spent far too much time working on Death Marshals, I'm glad to see them go. Rarely been so frustrated with a single group of miniatures. Maybe it's me, maybe I got a bad cast, but they were awful.

    The new artwork is intense. This might be enough to rekindle my interest in the system.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/13 05:58:42


    Post by: Gertjan


    If those drawings are going to be the new old boxed sets then it's going to be an expensive year for me I think as those look great. I am glad I managed to hold back from getting the Lady J crew untill I got my missT in as those look great (and better yet, plastic).


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/13 06:24:06


    Post by: Breotan


    I am going to be so broke.... :(


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 13:20:26


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Just thought I'd give a bit of an update.

    Public Beta test rules go live sometime today. EricJ on twitter mentioned they would be sometime midday today. So probably noon his time (PDT), so that'd be what? GMT-8? I'll post the link to where people can grab the beta rules when they're released. In the mean time, here are some new art pieces

    Also I've been meaning to grab these updates from EricJ's twitter account, but have only just done so today.
    (Stripper Heel) Lady Justice and Crew:


    Marcus and Crew:


    Bayou Gremlins "Symbol"?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 14:51:19


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


     Guildsman wrote:
    As someone who has spent far too much time working on Death Marshals, I'm glad to see them go. Rarely been so frustrated with a single group of miniatures. Maybe it's me, maybe I got a bad cast, but they were awful.


    I'm not sure if Jazz hands McGhostrider is a good direction for them to go though. Definite step backwards in design IMO. The scales and exorcist look improved. Lady J looks stupid and cheesecake as always. She loses points for the dumbass gravity defying hair, gets some back for the more dynamic pose, and we'll call it a draw on retaining the stripper outfit and heels.

    Raputina's crew looks utterly awesome, as does Marcus' from what I can tell. Huge improvement on the razorspine. I'd actually use it over a Hordes Naga.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 14:54:54


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Out of the death marshal models though, I think that Jazz Hands is the worst in the bunch . But that's why we have old sculpts, and Miss Terious


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 14:58:22


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


     Alfndrate wrote:
    Out of the death marshal models though, I think that Jazz Hands is the worst in the bunch . But that's why we have old sculpts, and Miss Terious


    True. I've got my nightmare editions too. And I guess head swaps arent terrible in platic. Still they're the weakest link for me.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 15:37:05


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    Speaking of Miss Terious, is that still available?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 15:46:27


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    Speaking of Miss Terious, is that still available?


    Nope, she was the 2012 "convention" exclusive much like Miss Demeanor and Miss Pack. There is also the gremlinette, but she's not one of the "Misses"


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 15:56:41


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    Different species don't deter me.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 15:57:10


    Post by: cincydooley


    Whoa....so they're doing completely new plastic sets for all the original dudes. Nice.

    There goes around $150 from me.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 16:16:56


    Post by: bbb


    Marcus looks pretty great...DARN :( I may have to buy his crew again.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 17:53:05


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Mathieu Raymond wrote:Different species don't deter me.


    I'm telling your fiancee

    cincydooley wrote:Whoa....so they're doing completely new plastic sets for all the original dudes. Nice.

    There goes around $150 from me.


    Every current master (probably with the exception of the book 4 stuff), is getting resculpted I believe. This also includes current Henchmen who are getting the bump to masters. Wait... new Dreamer and Lord Chompy Bits?! FETH YEAH (Just let me have this moment)

    bbb wrote:Marcus looks pretty great...DARN :( I may have to buy his crew again.


    Hopefully his rules don't suck this edition. I had a guy look at me like I kicked his puppy when I informed him that he couldn't cast feral and Wild Heart in the same turn (due to them both being (0) action - casts)...


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 18:20:15


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    Speaking of Miss Terious, is that still available?


    She was also an early backer reward in the RPG kickstarter, so there's going to be some more on the market. I'll (eventually) have an extra one.

    Since every master is also getting an avatar, maybe we'll get a better looking hungering darkness mini to split off and use as the regular one. I'd hoped for a nightmare edition, but we're getting the new Herald of Obliteration girl's NM version instead. Any idea on what her factions will be?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 18:41:46


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    Speaking of Miss Terious, is that still available?


    She was also an early backer reward in the RPG kickstarter, so there's going to be some more on the market. I'll (eventually) have an extra one.

    Since every master is also getting an avatar, maybe we'll get a better looking hungering darkness mini to split off and use as the regular one. I'd hoped for a nightmare edition, but we're getting the new Herald of Obliteration girl's NM version instead. Any idea on what her factions will be?


    I believe Tara is an Outcast henchman... Also I'm such a dope! >_< If anyone wants to know a little bit about our future Henchmen... read the Dead of Winter Campaign stories collected here

    I can't believe I didn't notice that >_<


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 19:03:31


    Post by: chaos0xomega


    Hmm, maybe buying the metal starters for dreamer, colette, and that asian resurrectionist girl whose name I can't remember now was a bad idea.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 19:17:42


    Post by: cincydooley


    For those of you that stayed with the Thru The Breach KS: Any progress from them on any front? I know the info trickling out regarding Evil Baby has been pretty nil, so was curious how that one's going.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 19:52:20


    Post by: Alfndrate


     cincydooley wrote:
    For those of you that stayed with the Thru The Breach KS: Any progress from them on any front? I know the info trickling out regarding Evil Baby has been pretty nil, so was curious how that one's going.


    I haven't been following it closely, They've started closed beta testing at least a month ago, and there was a contest for backers to join the Canon Campaign at GenCon, that's about it that I know of. You should have gotten an email several months ago about joining the "Through the Breach" playtest site... I haven't been following Malifaux stuff too closely since they asked for playtesters for Showdown (their new card game) and I couldn't because I work for another game company.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/05/31 21:01:12


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    chaos0xomega wrote:
    Hmm, maybe buying the metal starters for dreamer, colette, and that asian resurrectionist girl whose name I can't remember now was a bad idea.


    Kirai Ankoku.

    Haven't had the guts to start painting the boxset, though. Those clothes have me mighty intimidated.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/03 20:41:22


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    There seems to be a lot of stuff on page @@...


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/03 23:50:55


    Post by: Forar


    I imagine the book will be much longer than the 73 pages it's currently at, and with shuffling fluff and last minute changes, it's probably simpler to just leave an easily searchable @@ and update before it 'goes gold' rather than try to guestimate where everything will be.

    Also, heads up, apparently trying to print the rules book in its current form is... unwise. I printed off the stat and upgrade cards for all but one of the factions, but think I'd garner some ire at work if I blew through a toner cartridge on the book itself. Especially since there'll presumably be a number of revisions coming out over the next month or two or however long they're pushing the testing until it *has* to be at the printers in order to make Gencon.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 00:40:19


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    I gazed through the stat cards... they are certainly shorter. I focused on 10T during my lunch break, and I felt that there were quite fewer abilities per model, for generally a higher price. Anyone else got that opinion?

    Also, I can't field Yamaziko and Ototo in a Misaki Crew anymore?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 00:44:00


    Post by: Absolutionis


     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    I gazed through the stat cards... they are certainly shorter. I focused on 10T during my lunch break, and I felt that there were quite fewer abilities per model, for generally a higher price. Anyone else got that opinion?

    Also, I can't field Yamaziko and Ototo in a Misaki Crew anymore?
    They're upping the price of everything and making 'normal' games a higher SS count.

    They're also removing some superfluous abilities while streamlining everything. The reason is that now Masters, Henchmen, and Minions can take special ability cards to expand upon customization. These cards are found in the .pdf as well.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 00:44:27


    Post by: Alfndrate


    I haven't been able to look through everything, the reason why models cost more is because it looks like the average game size is going up by a few points, but they're also upping some models so you're still going to have close to the same number of models on the board (from what I can tell).

    Also the "less" abilties per models is because of the new upgrades system, which gives us ways to "customize" our masters and minions as we see fit. The thing that I bet will happen is that most things will be "usable" but there is eventually going to be "those combos" that everyone will know about and you'll see at tournaments. Haven't gotten a chance to play with those rules yet, it'll be a few weeks before I can


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 01:12:09


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    Yes, I just noticed on page @@, I mean 44, they mention that 50 SS is average, and my group was using 30 SS previously.

    Oh the possibilities!


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 01:15:47


    Post by: bbb


    From what I heard they increased the costs so that they could better balance the units against each other.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 02:29:59


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    Not that I have it painted, but Kirai doesn't get stat cards for the moment... are there many masters that didn't make the Beta cut?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 02:53:26


    Post by: decker_cky


    Lots didn't make the cut (most book 2 masters/henchmen, 2 of the book 4 masters, most book 2/3 minons, avatars). They'll come out in the second wave in September/October, so it'll be a pretty short wait for them to be updated (I think the testing on them starts as soon as the actual book is released so they can be balanced against the finalized models).

    I love the idea of McMourning as a Guild master.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 02:57:29


    Post by: Absolutionis


    Speaking of Book2 Henchmen, and considering the Arcanists won the recent Campaign, is there any news on the Kaeris resculpt, or is that being completely ignored in favor of shoving it in with all the other resculpts in Mv2?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 03:03:39


    Post by: cincydooley


    Sooooo. A few things about the beta stuff... Arcanist color is now BLUE?!?!? WTF.

    And does anyone know when/if they'll have the casters in Colette's wave out (or if they will?)


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 03:05:57


    Post by: Absolutionis


    Arcanists have always been blue. Their color was originally a darker blue that made telling them apart from the Neverborn Purple a bit difficult at times.

    Collette is a Book 2 Master. She will be in Wave 2 along with all the other Book 2/3 stuffs.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 03:07:33


    Post by: cincydooley


     Absolutionis wrote:
    Arcanists have always been blue. Their color was originally a darker blue that made telling them apart from the Neverborn Purple a bit difficult at times.

    Collette is a Book 2 Master. She will be in Wave 2 along with all the other Book 2/3 stuffs.


    Have they? My fate deck looks pretty damn purple, as do all my cards......

    Thanks for the Colette info. Excited to see her new art.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 03:13:34


    Post by: Linkdead


    It is actually 2 betas. The first covers core rules and a limited amount of models. The 2nd beta will start in the fall and includes the rest of the models.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 03:14:57


    Post by: Absolutionis


    The Fate Deck you probably have is the Neverborn Fate Deck. The Arcanists are meant to be blue.
    Spoiler:


    The cards themselves look very purple-ish, but they're supposed to be blue.

    See Arcanists cards here:
    http://www.wyrd-games.net/StatCards/Arcanistsv2.pdf

    Neverborn here:
    http://www.wyrd-games.net/StatCards/Neverbornv2.pdf

    The boxed sets also have an almost-purple shade of blue whereas the Neverborn are strictly purple.

    Spoiler:


    I'm happy Malifaux v2 is making the distinction more pronounced.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 03:20:55


    Post by: cincydooley


    Hehe. No, I don't doubt it. I don't want to get in a silly argument, but I swear the cards I have are a violet purple (just looked at em). My never born stuff is definitely more of a pink-magenta.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 07:53:32


    Post by: Emperors_Champion


    They did change slighty from really blue to nearly blue! Bit weird but heh ho!

    Anyway, a couple of changes I think are worth mentioning.

    First up, std game size is as mentioned 50ss. Game length reduced to 5 turns then random.

    Soulstones no longer add a card to flips. Rather just a + flip to defence/resist. If you ss a defence flip the attacker also suffers a - flip to their damage flip.

    Red Joker on damage adds weak damage rather than the next card.

    Most masters have more wounds.

    "Pass" is no longer, although i'm led to believe that was scraped in 1.5!


    Worth noting, "Bash" is no longer an option! So you'll want to keep anyone without a melee attack out of combat!

    On that note, a (2)Charge Action gives you 2 melee attacks!

    All Masters have 3 General Actions. Everyone else has 2 unless stated!

    So a few changes! Keen to see how it all comes together!



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 10:08:44


    Post by: Elemental


     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    Also, I can't field Yamaziko and Ototo in a Misaki Crew anymore?


    You can put a Master & Henchman in the same crew, based on what everyone in the beta forums is saying.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 11:23:55


    Post by: Emperors_Champion


     Elemental wrote:
     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    Also, I can't field Yamaziko and Ototo in a Misaki Crew anymore?


    You can put a Master & Henchman in the same crew, based on what everyone in the beta forums is saying.


    And an Enforcer!

    Then boost them all up with upgrades! Master has 3, Henchman 2 and Enforcers can have 1!

    Can get pretty powerful but all upgrades cost between 1-3 ss!


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Just realised that Yama and Ototo are both Henchies!


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 12:55:25


    Post by: bbb


    Anyone know why the steamborg executioner is now a named character?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 13:44:30


    Post by: Emperors_Champion


     bbb wrote:
    Anyone know why the steamborg executioner is now a named character?


    Fluff wise they all have names, I think there was one called Hank in the first book. I think that they must keep their real names from before they are "saved/improved" by Ramos!


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/04 23:37:08


    Post by: Haight


    Cautiously optimistic about a 2nd edition. I picked the game up when it first came out, and loved it, but by the last release i'd had my fill of a game that had become bloated with complexity for its own sake, and too much errata.

    A game doesn't need uber complex rules to be interesting and engaging. Here's hoping the new edition follows the KISS model of game design. If the rules are solid, i'll pick this game up again and probably so will my group.

    -- Haight


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/05 13:15:57


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    I played a game last night, first ever with Kirai... and I have to say that I am not against having simpler stat cards. I was doing a lot of hmmm and uhhh while trying to keep the pace of the game as fast as possible.

    When faced with a 10T crew that had both Ototo and Yamaziko (my friend didn't have his crew), it was solidly in his favour.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 11:41:27


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    I played a game last night, first ever with Kirai... and I have to say that I am not against having simpler stat cards. I was doing a lot of hmmm and uhhh while trying to keep the pace of the game as fast as possible.

    When faced with a 10T crew that had both Ototo and Yamaziko (my friend didn't have his crew), it was solidly in his favour.


    Now that the beta rules are out, have you given a shot of using her with the new rules? Or is she not in the playtest rules at the moment? (I haven't checked on them since their update last Friday).

    Also, I've got a new box art to preview from Eric's twitter account:


    If anyone has been playing the beta rules for the new edition I'd certainly like to hear them. I haven't been able to give them the love and attention that I should be, but still would like to hear people's thoughts.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 12:57:45


    Post by: bbb


    The Wyrd forum has a section to discuss the open beta rules. From what I've gathered most people like them with a few quirks here and there.

    Kirai isn't in the playtest rules so far. It is mostly book 1 models. The rest will get playtested later this year after this batch is finalized.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 14:08:23


    Post by: Alfndrate


     bbb wrote:
    The Wyrd forum has a section to discuss the open beta rules. From what I've gathered most people like them with a few quirks here and there.

    Kirai isn't in the playtest rules so far. It is mostly book 1 models. The rest will get playtested later this year after this batch is finalized.


    Yeah, general review is that the rules updates are a good thing. Locally for me this is not the case, as the majority of my players are not fans of the rules . Thankfully 1.5 is tournament and event legal until January.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 14:12:31


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    Haven't given the rules a play yet, my group is fairly conservative, unfortunately.

    Kirai couldn't work with the few rules per stat card right now. Maybe I am not imaginative enough, but she literally needs almost all the spells and abilities on her card at the moment.

    Unless they were to simply her relationship with Seishins, then that might be a great boon. Or have some of that stuff on the Seishin card rather than Kirai's.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 15:32:42


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    Haven't given the rules a play yet, my group is fairly conservative, unfortunately.

    Kirai couldn't work with the few rules per stat card right now. Maybe I am not imaginative enough, but she literally needs almost all the spells and abilities on her card at the moment.

    Unless they were to simply her relationship with Seishins, then that might be a great boon. Or have some of that stuff on the Seishin card rather than Kirai's.


    Thats kinda how I feel about Jacob Lynch. Not a fan of his new version, since he's so weak compared to the other masters, and you need to pay 6 soul stones for the hungering darkness (and he has a low cache still!). No defense, next to no offense compared to other masters, slow speed and he needs to be in the thick of things. That and he lost hiring options. Boo urns.

    I do like the new Zoraida (particularly dual faction), and am feelign out the arcanists. Also, the art is almost unilaterally an upgrade. I feel like this one's gonna cost me if the minis compare. And arent eleventy billion parts.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 17:27:19


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    So fifty-seventeen thousands' ok with you?

    It's still a beta, frankly I'm happy they are doing it this way, rather than dump it on us and then FAQ the hell out of it.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 18:20:35


    Post by: Mindshred


    The devs have been really great with listening to feedback and tweaking the things that need tweaking. I only started playing 1.5 a month ago, but having seen the direction of 2.0 thus far, I'm very enthusiastic for Malifaux's future.

    They've mentioned that the models that aren't in the first wave of beta (such as Kirai) will be in the second wave, and most people expect them to be done sometime late this year / early next year.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 18:32:48


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


     Mindshred wrote:
    The devs have been really great with listening to feedback and tweaking the things that need tweaking. I only started playing 1.5 a month ago, but having seen the direction of 2.0 thus far, I'm very enthusiastic for Malifaux's future.

    They've mentioned that the models that aren't in the first wave of beta (such as Kirai) will be in the second wave, and most people expect them to be done sometime late this year / early next year.


    Unfortunately like half of Jacob's signature screw is in that list (Tannin, Graves, Depleted) and Stitched Together, so it makes him a bit harder to test and contributes to the weaker feel I get from him vs the other masters.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 19:29:55


    Post by: Elemental


     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    Haven't given the rules a play yet, my group is fairly conservative, unfortunately.

    Kirai couldn't work with the few rules per stat card right now. Maybe I am not imaginative enough, but she literally needs almost all the spells and abilities on her card at the moment.

    Unless they were to simply her relationship with Seishins, then that might be a great boon. Or have some of that stuff on the Seishin card rather than Kirai's.


    I think it's quite doable. Her signature abilities are the ability to pass hits onto Seishin, switch spirits around, turn into a spirit, transform spirits into more powerful forms and summon the Ikiryo. It's not hard to see one or two of those being innate abilities, and the others being upgrades.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/13 23:14:06


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    Upgrades without which she can't really function, though. Unless they change her dynamics. Unless they are upgrades to minions instead of her...

    If Seishins could get an upgrade named "Vessel of..." and could therefore be used to channel Kirai's wounds into a metamorphosis, that whole spell would free up a lot of space on her card.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/14 12:35:54


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    Upgrades without which she can't really function, though. Unless they change her dynamics. Unless they are upgrades to minions instead of her...

    If Seishins could get an upgrade named "Vessel of..." and could therefore be used to channel Kirai's wounds into a metamorphosis, that whole spell would free up a lot of space on her card.


    Depends on what Seishins are classified as in the new rules, if they're the new insignificant (can't remember the name, begins with a p?) then they can't take upgrades.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/14 12:43:59


    Post by: PEARSCW


    There is a pre-existance of upgrades that work on other models based on LOS. Just look at the neverborn upgrade for Woes.

    It might be that the playstyle of Kirai changes slightly, or the exact things she can do change slightly.

    I just bought my first malifaux crew, went with Collodi, so am looking forward to seeing where M2E will take him.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/14 13:56:38


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    True about the peons. That might bar them from having upgrades. What I meant was put a bit more onto their card, to free up space on Kirai's.

    Having only played twice with her, I wouldn't mind having to learn all new tricks, honestly. I'm convinced once I get the hang of her, I'll make it work.

    It would help if people remembered their strategies and schemes though...


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/14 15:12:46


    Post by: Ozymandias


    Having played a couple games, I have to say I really like what I'm seeing. Match ups that were auto-win for one side don't seem that way anymore. Also, first game, I tabled my opponent and still lost on VP's. that's exactly how Malifaux should be! In my second game I had to not kill my opponent on the last turn and get him to kill me so I could place a "scheme marker" and hen reveal that it's an explosive which gave me three VP's and the game! Super tactical, the cards are easier to understand, and you can build complexity back in with upgrades. So far, it's great!


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/16 22:41:35


    Post by: Forar


    Managed to get one game in, Perdita vs Rasputina. It was fun, looking to get our next test game in later this week, but 2/5 of my usual playgroup are pretty wary (if not outright hostile) of the next edition, so it remains to be seen whether or not I'll be adopting the new edition.

    There are others in the area who get to play on occasion, but it's hard to account for the opinions of people whom I only get to play once per month or three. Which will be an interesting dichotomy as the opinions of 2 out of up to a dozen people might influence whether or not we all buy in.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/17 12:41:19


    Post by: Alfndrate


    My playgroup is entirely against 2nd ed, so for the time being we're going to enjoy the last remaining bits of the current edition. I finally sat down this past Friday to look over Pandora, and while she's not as awesome as she was, I can still do some of the nasty tricks with her.

    The biggest change I found with her is that her Df still sucks and she has no natural defense against being targeted anymore, but you still have to beat her in a Wp duel (if I read her abilities right).



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/17 15:22:37


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    Not loving the game thus far. The wife and I do feel like 90% of the changes are good ones, but upgrades are terrible, add a layer of record-keeping to a game which has a long enough set-up already, and in the games my club has played, the vast majority of the time we go all-in on our Masters upgrades just to get them back to resembling the way they previously played.

    Also... my beloved Ortegas just feel so plain now... My favorite crew is a ghost of its former self, and that just feels annoying.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/18 13:35:55


    Post by: Forar


    As someone who started with (and regularly plays) the Ortegas, I do like the new Francisco. Santiago has indeed lost a significant amount of his old survivability, but he's plenty shoot'y still. Perdita herself is still a fairly tough nut to crack, but the changes to soul stones hit hard, as they did most combat masters. Haven't really looked much at Papa Loco, though I wasn't enthusiastic about what I saw.

    What has been done to neuter Nino should be a crime against gaming. 8" objective denial (within LOS at least) might be good, but long range doesn't mean much to a sniper who can't hit a barn, and combat 5 is pretty sad, especially for a fairly expensive figure that used to be at a 7 and could buff up to a 9.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/18 15:56:52


    Post by: spiralingcadaver


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    Not loving the game thus far. The wife and I do feel like 90% of the changes are good ones, but upgrades are terrible, add a layer of record-keeping to a game which has a long enough set-up already, and in the games my club has played, the vast majority of the time we go all-in on our Masters upgrades just to get them back to resembling the way they previously played.

    Also... my beloved Ortegas just feel so plain now... My favorite crew is a ghost of its former self, and that just feels annoying.

    This was what I was pretty worried of... reminds me of some terrible Sonic (the hedgehog) game I played ages ago, where it took 1/3 of the game so you didn't need to fight your terrible basic abilities just to play. Hopefully the playtest will encourage more innate stuff and fewer upgrades (the mechanic itself isn't that much of a problem, but less of it and more in the core seems like a better approach).

    Also, too bad, re: loosing flavor


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/18 21:53:47


    Post by: Forar


    Well, even as someone who is critical of the second edition, this is an issue that seems to come up regularly but many struggle to put clearly into words; what is "flavour"?

    Does "flavour" need to be represented mechanically in full, or can fluff cover the flavour while the mechanics are streamlined to work with minimal issues?

    Is Flavour just what a figure does? Papa still acts recklessly and blows stuff (and himself) up, is he less flavourful because those actions are done in a more concise fashion? Perdita still shoots plenty, and with good figure positioning, can still be incredibly light on her feet. While I won't argue that she lost a few things (even after upgrades), how much of that text was "flavour"?

    I hope this isn't coming across as snide or condescending, I mean it sincerely. Malifaux is my first miniatures game, and it seems to be a very heavy meta-question; just what insubstantial quality is "flavour" for such a game? The models are still there (and the plastic sculpts look good), many of the rules seem to be tightened up (even if I'm not a fan of all the soulstone changes, the Charge rules are a hell of a lot better), but I'm not sure that something being different or done without breaking out the six point font is necessarily bad.

    Perhaps I'm conflating things, and I've heard it said that a single Malifaux figure might have as many rules as an entire army in some other games, but wary as I am, hostile as my group is, I'm trying to see things from both sides and make up my mind accordingly, rather than just seeing some of the old hands on various forums scoff and say "oh, the flavour is gone" while everyone nods and tisks and tuts. :-P


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/18 21:59:43


    Post by: Mathieu Raymond


    Valid questions.

    Add another one to your list: is flavour not allowed to change? We grow up, our tastes change, yet we still enjoy life. The game will change, and we'll change with it, if we still find something to enjoy in it.

    Kirai in particular has a whole slew of rules just for herself. If they can make her true to her fluff (being a spirit of vengeance) while streamlining her rules, then great. If she changes drastically, then I will reserve my judgement until I see what they made of her. If the change is unconvincing, then I'm sure I'll find another Master. But I will miss her japanese folklore.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/20 07:18:50


    Post by: Mindshred


     Mathieu Raymond wrote:
    True about the peons. That might bar them from having upgrades. What I meant was put a bit more onto their card, to free up space on Kirai's.


    Masters can have three upgrades, Henchman can have two upgrades, and Enforcers can have a single upgrade.

    Minions and Peons - the vast majority of the models - can't have any upgrades at all.



    Re: Set up times

    We've found that after a few games, the set up time for 2.0 is actually quite a bit less than 1.5. For the most part, this has to do with a narrowed Strategy list and the way that schemes are now generated; instead of having a huge list of schemes to choose from every game, you generate four to five random schemes that both players choose from. It adds a bit of strategy, as you have a small list of options as to what you can do and what your opponent might be trying to do, and a few of the strategies are actually traps that you can lure your opponent into and/or have to watch out for. It's been fun so far.



    Re: Kirai

    I'm sure that she'll turn out just fine. She might not be able to do everything she could in 1.5, but she'll probably still retain her flavor. Leveticus was one of the most complicated masters to play in 1.5, but they've got him down to the point where he still takes skill to use, but doesn't require an internet tactica to explain how he works.

    The second wave Masters/Henchmen seem to be the ones with the slightly "wonky" mechanics (such as Kirai, Collette, and the Dreamer), as opposed to the more "standard" first wave characters.



    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    be54a70c538795ff8a19a8f10b8c85de.jpeg]Unfortunately like half of Jacob's signature screw is in that list (Tannin, Graves, Depleted) and Stitched Together, so it makes him a bit harder to test and contributes to the weaker feel I get from him vs the other masters.


    The Illuminated and Beckoners are both pretty solid, though, and Hungering Darkness is an absolute beast on the table. They may not have all of their pieces yet, but I have no complaints about the models they do have right now.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/21 16:12:13


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


     Forar wrote:
    Well, even as someone who is critical of the second edition, this is an issue that seems to come up regularly but many struggle to put clearly into words; what is "flavour"?

    Does "flavour" need to be represented mechanically in full, or can fluff cover the flavour while the mechanics are streamlined to work with minimal issues?

    Is Flavour just what a figure does? Papa still acts recklessly and blows stuff (and himself) up, is he less flavourful because those actions are done in a more concise fashion? Perdita still shoots plenty, and with good figure positioning, can still be incredibly light on her feet. While I won't argue that she lost a few things (even after upgrades), how much of that text was "flavour"?

    I hope this isn't coming across as snide or condescending, I mean it sincerely. Malifaux is my first miniatures game, and it seems to be a very heavy meta-question; just what insubstantial quality is "flavour" for such a game? The models are still there (and the plastic sculpts look good), many of the rules seem to be tightened up (even if I'm not a fan of all the soulstone changes, the Charge rules are a hell of a lot better), but I'm not sure that something being different or done without breaking out the six point font is necessarily bad.

    Perhaps I'm conflating things, and I've heard it said that a single Malifaux figure might have as many rules as an entire army in some other games, but wary as I am, hostile as my group is, I'm trying to see things from both sides and make up my mind accordingly, rather than just seeing some of the old hands on various forums scoff and say "oh, the flavour is gone" while everyone nods and tisks and tuts. :-P



    I think the line I bolded pegs where you perspective is coming from. In a whole world of miniature war-gaming, where mechanics rule the day, and usually larger scale games just see units blurring together, filling one function only, etc... Malifaux WAS refreshing. Every unit had some many things that only they could innately do, and the interplay between these options gave over-all "flavor".

    Now, fluff means nothing to me when i'm several rounds into a game... so I don't care if Nino is a legendary sniper in some badly written fan-fic.... I care about how he is represented as a play-piece.

    As it stands, modular "flavor" via war-gear is just busy-work to me, and isn't fun. Thus far my group and I have hated the extra time wasted turning fairly bland units back into what they already were.

    And ultimately the other rules changes, in general, are good ones... Problem is, going a war-gear route added nothing that we can see thus far, except a time-sink, and less intimidating unit cards for some hypothetical "casual" audience.

    We partake in an expensive, ultimately geeky hobby... There ARE no "casual" players, and accessibility is moot.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/21 16:37:35


    Post by: Elemental


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    And ultimately the other rules changes, in general, are good ones... Problem is, going a war-gear route added nothing that we can see thus far, except a time-sink, and less intimidating unit cards for some hypothetical "casual" audience.

    We partake in an expensive, ultimately geeky hobby... There ARE no "casual" players, and accessibility is moot.


    You might want to get out a slightly narrower brush there.

    Also, I'm intending to run a Malifaux league at the local club when the rules are out, so I think there just might be some of these mythical casual players, and they might also prefer it to be accessible.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/21 16:47:51


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    I'm curious as to what a miniatures "casual" looks like. In the video-game world, it is obvious... but in a hobby where the start-up of essentially any game involves buying relatively pricey-pieces and assembling/gluing tiny components... you'll likely already warded off soccer moms, and frat-boys.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/21 19:04:32


    Post by: Alfndrate


    The description of what a miniatures "casual" is a topic for a different thread, of which you're welcome to start.

    The issue of flavor, in relation to Malifaux, is a tricky thing to pinpoint Forar, as it changes from person to person, but NewTruth touches on it. Malifaux is your first miniatures game, and unlike the majority of us here, you've never gone through wargear upgrades from other game systems (namely 40k and Warhammer Fantasy). The way these games tend to work out is that people will eventually figure out what wargear upgrades will create the best army available for the points, getting the most efficient pieces of wargear for the cheapest price.

    While you could easily just say, "But Alf in Malifaux there were still people that had the same lists because people found out what worked the best." This is true, but each piece in those crews had a specific feeling and flavor to it. Nicodem was a fun master because instead of being able to summon a few key pieces of undead models, he could also swarm the board with cheap mindless zombies*. Now he has to take a wargear upgrade to do this, what it it turns out that such a thing isn't worth it to take? Your "casual" Nicodem player will probably still take it, but the guy who plays weekly, reads the forums, probably won't why? Because if he does take that upgrade, he's losing out on a potentially better upgrade.

    Now with that being said, I trust Wyrd to handle this well and to prevent such things, but that is mostly what players mean when they say that the flavor is being taken out. While originally, my Pandora may have been exactly the same as every other Pandora out there, I played her over say Zoraida because I liked the tricks that she could do that Zoe coudn't. Now both of the masters have lost bits and pieces of what made them "them" and have been given the option of giving themselves things that can make them seem similar to each other. When you market a game as a "character driven skirmish" game, you would hope that the models in the game still have character.

    It's all based on opinion anyways, and as always... to each their own.

    * - Nicodem is a fun master, but was only used as an example regardless of whether or not people think he's a great master or not.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/21 19:57:31


    Post by: Elemental


     Alfndrate wrote:
    The description of what a miniatures "casual" is a topic for a different thread, of which you're welcome to start.

    The issue of flavor, in relation to Malifaux, is a tricky thing to pinpoint Forar, as it changes from person to person, but NewTruth touches on it. Malifaux is your first miniatures game, and unlike the majority of us here, you've never gone through wargear upgrades from other game systems (namely 40k and Warhammer Fantasy). The way these games tend to work out is that people will eventually figure out what wargear upgrades will create the best army available for the points, getting the most efficient pieces of wargear for the cheapest price.

    While you could easily just say, "But Alf in Malifaux there were still people that had the same lists because people found out what worked the best." This is true, but each piece in those crews had a specific feeling and flavor to it. Nicodem was a fun master because instead of being able to summon a few key pieces of undead models, he could also swarm the board with cheap mindless zombies*. Now he has to take a wargear upgrade to do this, what it it turns out that such a thing isn't worth it to take? Your "casual" Nicodem player will probably still take it, but the guy who plays weekly, reads the forums, probably won't why? Because if he does take that upgrade, he's losing out on a potentially better upgrade.


    Are you testing the 2E rules and giving feedback on changes you think would make the game better, such as over / under priced upgrades? The open beta is still going on.

     Alfndrate wrote:
    Now with that being said, I trust Wyrd to handle this well and to prevent such things, but that is mostly what players mean when they say that the flavor is being taken out. While originally, my Pandora may have been exactly the same as every other Pandora out there, I played her over say Zoraida because I liked the tricks that she could do that Zoe coudn't. Now both of the masters have lost bits and pieces of what made them "them" and have been given the option of giving themselves things that can make them seem similar to each other. When you market a game as a "character driven skirmish" game, you would hope that the models in the game still have character.

    It's all based on opinion anyways, and as always... to each their own.

    * - Nicodem is a fun master, but was only used as an example regardless of whether or not people think he's a great master or not.


    I was sceptical, but the thing that changed my mind about upgrades was getting out of the mindset that I had to faithfully reproduce 1E Masters, and realising that I now had different options within the same character--Zoraida can be played as a peerless card-draw generator, a disruptor or a mobile skirmisher. I could do more than one of those roles, but do I want to for this game? Even if she's not doing all the stuff in one particular game that she did in 1E, how many Masters really used all the stuff on their card in the same game?

    By the by, apart from upgrades, I'd argue that the dual faction rules adds a ton of character to crews, with things like Zoraida leading Gremlins or McMourning as an agent of the Guild.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/24 12:00:48


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Elemental wrote:
    Are you testing the 2E rules and giving feedback on changes you think would make the game better, such as over / under priced upgrades? The open beta is still going on.


    I have not gotten through more than one or two games when the rules came out (we're what 4 rules updates in from that?) because I can't get anyone to play M2E with me. The players in my group are adamantly against 2nd edition and have not liked the over arching concepts of the new edition.


    I was skeptical, but the thing that changed my mind about upgrades was getting out of the mindset that I had to faithfully reproduce 1E Masters, and realising that I now had different options within the same character--Zoraida can be played as a peerless card-draw generator, a disruptor or a mobile skirmisher. I could do more than one of those roles, but do I want to for this game? Even if she's not doing all the stuff in one particular game that she did in 1E, how many Masters really used all the stuff on their card in the same game?

    By the by, apart from upgrades, I'd argue that the dual faction rules adds a ton of character to crews, with things like Zoraida leading Gremlins or McMourning as an agent of the Guild.


    Trying to recreate my favorite master isn't what I'm trying to do with upgrades, but I'm trying to find something that makes Pandora... Pandora, my Wp duel loving master that makes it next to impossible to get within a foot of her. She still has plenty of that flavor, but the way I, personally, view upgrades in wargames is that they lead to "characters" being the same thing because people have found what works the best and what isn't worth taking. I just think that the character aspect of "character driven skirmish" game is disappearing. And for what it's worth, I found myself using almost every one of Pandora's or Lynch's abilities because there were times when I couldn't safely pull off a Pacify or Incite chain and I would instead hit a model that would be within striking distance, and I'd need it to make a Wp test every time it wanted to do something (which I think is the least used ability on her card).

    I would like to note that I hope this doesn't come across as bashing Wyrd or Malifaux, because that's not what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm just not excited about the new edition and what I've experienced with it.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/24 14:30:54


    Post by: Elemental


     Alfndrate wrote:
    I have not gotten through more than one or two games when the rules came out (we're what 4 rules updates in from that?) because I can't get anyone to play M2E with me. The players in my group are adamantly against 2nd edition and have not liked the over arching concepts of the new edition.


    Huh, you'd think they'd be enthusiastic about a chance to shape the new direction, then. But without meaning to be dismissive, you can't judge a game from reading the rules alone.

     Alfndrate wrote:

    Trying to recreate my favorite master isn't what I'm trying to do with upgrades, but I'm trying to find something that makes Pandora... Pandora, my Wp duel loving master that makes it next to impossible to get within a foot of her. She still has plenty of that flavor, but the way I, personally, view upgrades in wargames is that they lead to "characters" being the same thing because people have found what works the best and what isn't worth taking. I just think that the character aspect of "character driven skirmish" game is disappearing.


    But in 1E, surely that just applied to whole models which didn't see table time because people had figured out that other things worked better at the same role. And again, if the upgrades are balanced, then "best" depends on matchup and intended tactics. Also, it's an insurance system in that if anyone does come up underpowered, then future upgrades can remedy that. Which is obviously imperfect, but still better than having to release new models (ie, the Mobile Toolkit to give Ramos his desperately needed tome on casting) to shore up old ones.

    Pandora's an odd case, because I can understand them wanting not to put her in the awful "stop your opponent from playing the game" territory, which she sometimes could be in 1E.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/06/24 14:44:02


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Elemental wrote:
    Huh, you'd think they'd be enthusiastic about a chance to shape the new direction, then. But without meaning to be dismissive, you can't judge a game from reading the rules alone.


    In their mind, the train has left the station, jumped the tracks, and is no longer fun to ride on. And their issue isn't with the fine tuned bits of the new rules, it's with the over arching major changes that they're experiencing (larger point sizes, changes to soulstones, upgrade system, etc...). I gave them M2E demos, I got in 1 game with one of my regulars, and another one of my regulars printed off everything and played a dozen games at home (basically at least 1 with each of his masters). So at least one of my players has decent "personal" experience with his reasons for disliking the new rules (i.e. playing more than 1 game).


    But in 1E, surely that just applied to whole models which didn't see table time because people had figured out that other things worked better at the same role. And again, if the upgrades are balanced, then "best" depends on matchup and intended tactics. Also, it's an insurance system in that if anyone does come up underpowered, then future upgrades can remedy that. Which is obviously imperfect, but still better than having to release new models (ie, the Mobile Toolkit to give Ramos his desperately needed tome on casting) to shore up old ones.

    Pandora's an odd case, because I can understand them wanting not to put her in the awful "stop your opponent from playing the game" territory, which she sometimes could be in 1E.


    I don't doubt that Pandora is an odd case, but for the most part she only had 2 abilities that prevented you from actually being able to not play. She had Expose Fears, which meant that you had to beat her in a Wp duel to actually do something against her, and she had Dementia. Expose Fears was her one defense against that low Df she was sporting, and it was easy enough to get around, just blast things near her, or use Auras and Pulses. Sure she has a Df4 now, and can always substitute her Wp when she needs to make a Df duel, and then turns that into a Wp duel which if your opponent is within 6 inches, will take a wound. I guess in my experience, the new Pandora just doesn't have as much board control as I was used to.

    One could say she would also dictate the flow of the game with a Pacify or Incite Chain, but I rarely saw (and experienced myself) points where Pandora wouldn't just Pacify or Incite the entire enemy crew. Once that happens, the opposing player can pick and choose who to activate like normal (so if they all have Pacify, they can't all Activate last).


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/12 18:13:04


    Post by: Absolutionis


    Plastic Witchling Stalker Sprue:



    It seems they're not putting the base on the sprue and making even common minions on their own sprue. This is ideal for Wyrd to sell boxed sets and for people that want individual models to have that option available.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/12 18:56:35


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


    That seems kind of needlessly wasteful to put the base on the sprue.

    The sculp looks very nice. If they used digital renders, they seemed to have learned from their previous misteps. Cloth has the deep recesses needed to make it actually loook good on the tabletop. No spindly bits that will break if you dare take it from a glass display case. Its not needlessly split into 587 different pieces. If they manage to do the rest of the line like this, my wallet 's gonna be hurting.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/12 19:32:19


    Post by: Absolutionis


    On the other hand, it's much easier in terms of packaging to just put in just sprues of whatever models rather than think about how many bases are needed and put in that many loose plastic bases.

    In the end, it really doesn't make too much of a difference to me. The base's rim seems to have more surface area on the bottom, so it's somewhat easier for people such as myself that put metal washers underneath all models.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/12 19:35:01


    Post by: Matney X


    They closed the M2E forum. Now we just have to wait 'til GenCon.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/12 20:13:56


    Post by: bbb


    Wow...I REALLY like that Witchling Stalker. This gives me immense hope for the new round of plastics.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/12 20:49:19


    Post by: Valhallan42nd


    Wyrd's booth is the one I'm making a beeline toward. I can't wait.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/12 21:33:56


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    Still not loving some of the changes, nor is my wife, and a few of our friends. We started playing Malifaux for its flavor above all, and the war-gear stuff just feels like a blow to it... We really like other changes... but oddly the biggest thing the beta of 2.0 has done is gotten us to go back to playing/painting our long-lost Warmachine armies.



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/13 03:49:36


    Post by: Vilegrimm


    Has anyone here checked out the article Justin had in Wyrd Chronicles no. 6? It's a piece on M2E, and why they did some of the things the way they have done.

    Myself, I'm quite excited about the new edition, and so is the group I have. I'm one of the original players; my first Malifaux purchase was at their online store for the
    book, 2 crews, 2 decks, and as soon as they were painted, I became a Henchman (and still am). Over the years, the two groups I nurtured watch the game go from
    interesting Encounters and challenges to the point where many models became overshadowed by the latest toys, and some Masters became nearly unbeatable.
    One of the groups imploded, but some of them are looking at the new edition and becoming interested again. That to me is a win.

    As for the flavour of the game, if you've actually played the beta rules, it still plays like Malifaux. We found that being able to lay Scheme markers down, even if you have
    no schemes that need them, is a fun little head game to play with your opponent. Choosing upgrades may be a "time sink" (until you get to know which ones you like),
    but no more so that picking through a dozen or two schemes. And after watching the "Zoraida-Papa Loco Bomb" crew a few times, I would argue that thanks to Meta-gaming,
    Malifaux was already losing some of its flavour to these killer-combos. (Sadly, though, this trick can still be picked)

    I think one of the other Henchmen said it best in a thread over on the Henchman forums: try not to think of this as Malifaux 2E, think of it as a "new" game. Try not to think of your
    Crew, and your favorite Master in terms of what they used to do, but think of them in terms of what they can do now. He was debating quitting after reading the rules... however,
    once he actually hit the tabletop with his Crew, he found out he really enjoyed the changes, both in mechanics and strategy. That's how I've been looking at it; it's a new game,
    and I am going to treat it as such. I hope many others will, too.

    -Vilegrimm


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/13 19:28:28


    Post by: Haight


     Vilegrimm wrote:

    I think one of the other Henchmen said it best in a thread over on the Henchman forums: try not to think of this as Malifaux 2E, think of it as a "new" game. Try not to think of your
    Crew, and your favorite Master in terms of what they used to do, but think of them in terms of what they can do now.

    -Vilegrimm



    That henchman has to realize what a huge, tall order asking that is. People have experience with Malifaux - they are naturally going to lend prior experience to the new ruleset.

    Also, it's not entirely correct that it's a new game ; it's the same game utilizing a new set of mechanics. The setting, most of the characters, and even the method in which it's played are the same - there are just fine mechanical points at the microcosmic level that have changed (mostly, not entirely exhaustive).

    It's also not necessarily a great idea to say to customers (some of which have left the game, and are peering at it wondering if it's worth coming back) "don't think of the very things [your crew / favorite master] that drew you to our game in the first place".

    I realize what this gent is doing and where his thinking is, but in reality what's being said is "to those who have gripes, don't linger on them, really - this is all new, don't worry that the things you really liked that hooked you don't do / behave the same, you'll find something else to hook you, i promise".

    I dunno, that's just not a great sales pitch to me.

    I got into 'faux a while back because i loved Leviticus and the self-destroying-reincarnating necromancer playstyle and fluff. If someone were to say to me "Don't get all hung up on that", my response would be "There's not much reason for me to play then". Let's say that in 'faux-two-point-Oh, leveticus is now a necromancer, and the self-destructing-reincarnating mechanics are gone ? There goes a lot of my interest.



    For me, clean rules, no counter-intuitive mechanics, and keeping the intrinsic feel of Malifaux (both gameplay, and fluff / setting) are what would get me back.


    -- Haight


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/13 19:42:06


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Been lurking for awhile, the new rules haven't been a big hit at my store, so we've been taking a summer break and enjoying other games. I do like the stalker sculpt up above, and think the base thing is a good idea. They did it with Santana and Miss Terious. It's a good move imo, but it can be a little wonky to some.

    With that being said, I urge anyone that is interested, go read some of the articles on the Dead Tau Project. The author Nix (Bill from the Gamers Lounge podcast) has plenty of posts on the changes and his view on it. Nix was a great henchman, and made me want to strive to be as excited and enthusiastic for this game.

    But that's if you're interested. I'll check out the Wyrd booth at GenCon, but I don't think I'll pick anything up.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/13 20:55:40


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


     Vilegrimm wrote:
    Has anyone here checked out the article Justin had in Wyrd Chronicles no. 6? It's a piece on M2E, and why they did some of the things the way they have done.

    Myself, I'm quite excited about the new edition, and so is the group I have. I'm one of the original players; my first Malifaux purchase was at their online store for the
    book, 2 crews, 2 decks, and as soon as they were painted, I became a Henchman (and still am). Over the years, the two groups I nurtured watch the game go from
    interesting Encounters and challenges to the point where many models became overshadowed by the latest toys, and some Masters became nearly unbeatable.
    One of the groups imploded, but some of them are looking at the new edition and becoming interested again. That to me is a win.

    As for the flavour of the game, if you've actually played the beta rules, it still plays like Malifaux. We found that being able to lay Scheme markers down, even if you have
    no schemes that need them, is a fun little head game to play with your opponent. Choosing upgrades may be a "time sink" (until you get to know which ones you like),
    but no more so that picking through a dozen or two schemes. And after watching the "Zoraida-Papa Loco Bomb" crew a few times, I would argue that thanks to Meta-gaming,
    Malifaux was already losing some of its flavour to these killer-combos. (Sadly, though, this trick can still be picked)

    I think one of the other Henchmen said it best in a thread over on the Henchman forums: try not to think of this as Malifaux 2E, think of it as a "new" game. Try not to think of your
    Crew, and your favorite Master in terms of what they used to do, but think of them in terms of what they can do now. He was debating quitting after reading the rules... however,
    once he actually hit the tabletop with his Crew, he found out he really enjoyed the changes, both in mechanics and strategy. That's how I've been looking at it; it's a new game,
    and I am going to treat it as such. I hope many others will, too.

    -Vilegrimm



    I appreciate these thoughts... I just feel like, if this was the version of the game i'd originally fallen in love with, maybe it would be fine... but it isn't. Likewise, our local store is being really adamant about only letting the current product version be played... so not only is it a mass of changes, some I like, many I don't.... but it is also being forced on us. Rarely does bullying help make a hobby better, versus worse. That isn't Wyrd's fault, mind you... but it is our local reality.

    In companion to this... we have two local henchmen... one is wonderful, and the kind of person who Wyrd should be proud to have, a real advocate of the game..... the other has a stink of corporate shill, and he keeps beating us over-the-head with "OMG ISN'T V2 AMAZING AND PERFECT IN EVERY WAY?!?!".... which has run quite a few folks in the club off. Its a real struggle when there isn't room for debate, and you're told, play this, and be excited about it.... or don't play.... That sucks, frankly.

    I don't know... I still think war-gear system sucks, and all of V2, to me and my group feels like a ham-fisted way of rebalancing the game in a way which will make people spend money. I don't love it, but I love the core of what makes Malifaux, Malifaux. As such, like a lot of my crew, I won't abandon the game.... i'll just cut my enthusiasm from raving fanatic, to player of a stray game here and there... until the new system shakes out, and maybe people come back.

    That said, and I wasn't trying to be snarky... the best thing to come of V2 locally really has been the huge surge in players to other, similarly excellent games. I finally get to dust off (pardon the pun) my Dust Warfare armies, my Warmachine Armies, etc... as those clubs are surging in popularity again.



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/13 22:32:08


    Post by: WUWU


    I don't understand how anyone could like the garbage of 1.5 compared to M2E. It's a better game in every way now. There's no more skimming through five books of poorly edited rules, a long with a living FAQ and errata document to see if you're (0) action is an Attack or an attack.

    Most of the criticisms I've seen have been ambiguous comments regarding "feel", or are fluff related complaints, and that doesn't cut it for me, and I think does a disservice to the excellent design process the game went through.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/13 22:36:59


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    Ok.... Well, if the changes were limited to creating a single, focused document, and ironing out inconsistencies, I think few would complain. The kinds of things you mention tend to be the kinds of changes I really like...

    ... its the "new" stuff, which frankly, kinda sucks.

    And really, you don't need to be coy about what people mean when they say "feel" or "flavor". No one here argues that "flavor" is lost in changing the impact of flipping a red-Joker on damage.

    People do feel like "flavor" is lost when you have a dull-as-rock Avatar transformation mechanic that takes a layer of uniqueness out of the game... or when you add a clunky chunk of rules regarding war-gear, that serve no purpose other than to be the most awkward rebalance i've ever seen a game go through.



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/13 22:43:08


    Post by: Guildsman


    I think I'll sit out the beta and watch all of this hooplah from a safe distance. Haven't been involved with the game for some time, but a new version is exciting. Regardless of whether or not V2 as planned is a good thing, something needed to be done. I flipped through the newest book yesterday in store and was shocked. It's an absolute mess. All the new units, characteristics, rules... it was almost too much for me, and I have experience with the system! I can only imagine what it must be like for a new player.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/13 23:25:13


    Post by: Haight


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    Ok.... Well, if the changes were limited to creating a single, focused document, and ironing out inconsistencies, I think few would complain. The kinds of things you mention tend to be the kinds of changes I really like...

    ... its the "new" stuff, which frankly, kinda sucks.

    And really, you don't need to be coy about what people mean when they say "feel" or "flavor". No one here argues that "flavor" is lost in changing the impact of flipping a red-Joker on damage.

    People do feel like "flavor" is lost when you have a dull-as-rock Avatar transformation mechanic that takes a layer of uniqueness out of the game... or when you add a clunky chunk of rules regarding war-gear, that serve no purpose other than to be the most awkward rebalance i've ever seen a game go through.



    This is very well said. Unwieldly and ham-fisted rules interactions were why i left in the first place... rebooting to a V2 with more clunky systems isn't a good sign.

    Hopefully they clean things up in the beta.

    ... Betas worry me though. I speak from experience (as i'm sure many can, though in some ways, mine are unique) that "open betas" and "open feedback trials" end up being a fishing expedition for good ideas, gak the designers and PT'ers didn't spot about 10% of the time, and 90% of the time telling the base it's wrong. And sometimes it is, but other times you get so hung up defending your work that it becomes hard to see that, ultimately, your clientele are telling you something.

    I guess what i'm saying is that i hope they have truly open minds during a beta, and it doesn't become a scenario where the items and points brought up don't become merely a defensive sounding board.

    I've seen it happen, and the results are typically gakky.


    -- Haight


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Guildsman wrote:
    I think I'll sit out the beta and watch all of this hooplah from a safe distance. Haven't been involved with the game for some time, but a new version is exciting. Regardless of whether or not V2 as planned is a good thing, something needed to be done. I flipped through the newest book yesterday in store and was shocked. It's an absolute mess. All the new units, characteristics, rules... it was almost too much for me, and I have experience with the system! I can only imagine what it must be like for a new player.



    This is another good point.

    Malifaux suffered from needless and over complexity of its rule-set in damn near record time in terms of mini's games. By the release with Lord Chompy Bits and the dreamer, i was loosing peeps from my playgroup, because it literally took playing a game to show them thow LCB worked, and they burned out on a game where they co9uldn't tell what a master did just by reading it.

    That's usually not a good thing.

    Over the next couple releases the rules bloat and enormous amount of questionable levels of complexity had created an issue for the game.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 05:32:33


    Post by: Vilegrimm


    Well, from following the Open Beta from week one, they had an updated list each week showing what changes were made, what stats were tweaked, and what pieces were rewritten, so they definitely seemed to be
    listening. Now that the time is finished, they plan on another week of Closed testing, then getting the final product off to the printers in time for Gen Con.

    @Haight:
    Yes, I do realize it's a tall order, to be asked to go back to square one, basically, with the game and your Crew. That being said, though, I've personally been through it many times in many editions of other tabletop
    games, so perhaps I have a different perspective on it (and some of those changes were horrible, to the point that I no longer play said games). However, to sit there and listening to people gripe and moan without
    actually trying the game would also be annoying as hell, which is why it was said. He was one of the complainers; then he tried the rules and found out it really wasn't world ending, after all... and really, if you already
    have the models, let your local Henchman pick up the new rules, then pick his brain and let him run you through them. If you like it, you'll probably go out and get the rules, and if you don't... well, some folks are at that
    point already.

    @Neo:
    Having a local store like you describe would suck. If everyone there is happy playing 1.5, then that is what should be played. All the owner would lose out on is sales of the new rules; I'm sure that many people would
    be interested in the new plastics, and you could still get people interested in it (although getting extra v2 cards for the redone models would be difficult). Also, having a "shill" for a Henchman would be rough, as would
    having a completely negative Henchman. Myself, I give people "the talk" and walk them through a game, letting them ask questions and ultimately decide for themselves if they want to get involved in the system. The
    game should sell itself, and we should just be there to help it along and keep things organized.

    As for the war-gear system... again, I've been playing tabletop games since 1988, so this is nothing new to me, or to other systems. If you've never dealt with it before, it can seem clunky and out of place. I guess they just
    figured it would be the best way to streamline the core cards for all the models, yet allow for complexity for those who want all the shinies. The new players to our group are happy that there are not as many choices for
    each card, now, and some of them like the fact that with upgrade options, their Pandora may not be exactly the same as the Pandora they're about to fight!

    And I'm not being snarky, either, nor did I think you were... in the interim leading up to M2E, I had just about given up on Malifaux, and invested heavily in Warmachine, picked up Infinity, SuperSystem, etc. And I still play those
    games, but the new Edition has all of us excited about where it may lead...

    @Alfndrate: Yes, Nix has been quite vocal in his dislike of the new version, which is his choice to be... That being said, as another Henchman pointed out, Malifaux actually isn't OUR game, as some Henchman were beginning
    to feel like, it's the property of Wyrd. They obviously felt the system was growing stagnant, or needed a change from where it was going, and brought about what is now Malifaux 2nd Edition. Our job is to look at the new system,
    decide whether or not we feel we can support it, and go from there. A lot of what Nix is posting is, indeed, speculation. Currently, Wyrd is getting M2E, Through the Breach, and apparently an unknown game together for Gen Con.
    They have just released an expansion for EBO, and another one is planned for Gen Con release. Could not the three key forum members he comments on be working on those, and too busy to post? They could also be very
    unhappy with M2E, but to use it as another possible sign that Malifaux 2nd edition is going wrong is, as he put it, getting close to conspiracy theory. As for the negative comments, I dunno: how many people here like to hear
    people ragging on their life's work on a daily (or hourly) basis? Of course there is going to be naysayers and corporate shills, and sometimes one side will drown out the other... at least they haven't shut their forums down.

    Really, I think the best thing is for everyone to check out the new rules when they're released, see if a local Henchman has them to try before you buy, and give the game a shot. It may retain your interest, it may not; in our neck of
    the woods, it has the potential of restarting my non-local that imploded before Storm of Shadows. In other places, it will die. But I'm at least going to give it a shot before I give it a burial. (And FWIW, before I become a shill, I'm not
    very happy with the seemingly overabundance of "goth" in the new artwork... which is why I'm stocking up on models now)

    -Vilegrimm


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 09:20:06


    Post by: Lalochezia


     Vilegrimm wrote:
    Currently, Wyrd is getting M2E, Through the Breach, and apparently an unknown game together for Gen Con.


    Showdown.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 11:07:54


    Post by: Haight


     Vilegrimm wrote:
    Well, from following the Open Beta from week one, they had an updated list each week showing what changes were made, what stats were tweaked, and what pieces were rewritten, so they definitely seemed to be
    listening. Now that the time is finished, they plan on another week of Closed testing, then getting the final product off to the printers in time for Gen Con.

    @Haight:
    Yes, I do realize it's a tall order, to be asked to go back to square one, basically, with the game and your Crew. That being said, though, I've personally been through it many times in many editions of other tabletop
    games, so perhaps I have a different perspective on it (and some of those changes were horrible, to the point that I no longer play said games). However, to sit there and listening to people gripe and moan without
    actually trying the game would also be annoying as hell, which is why it was said. He was one of the complainers; then he tried the rules and found out it really wasn't world ending, after all... and really, if you already
    have the models, let your local Henchman pick up the new rules, then pick his brain and let him run you through them. If you like it, you'll probably go out and get the rules, and if you don't... well, some folks are at that
    point already.



    -Vilegrimm


    Don't get me wrong, i've been through many many second editions too. Hell, i've worked on a couple.

    But i've never seen a new edition be requested to be thought of as an entirely new game. That's a tall (and personally i think though well intentioned, unreasonable - as in "not going to happen" unreasonable) order.

    I do agree - if people are kvetching without trying it, then that's somewhat baseless.

    For my part i'll wait until they hash everything out, and then see if it piques my crews interest.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 14:46:59


    Post by: Vilegrimm


    Ah, so it's Showdown that's coming... very interesting. Thanks for that tidbit, Lalo!

    And yes, I realize it is a tall order to request; perhaps a better way to ask would be "try it before you decide on it." Although I remember when Warhammer Fantasy and 40K went through such huge reboots, they set back all of the forces to the Ravening Hordes and the little black book that came in the box, so it has been done before.

    -Vilegrimm


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 14:59:59


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    @Vilegrimm I appreciate the thoughts and the genuine interest in discussion. For the record... I just want to say that if I didn't love Malifaux, I wouldn't complain, so obviously the core of what is here means something to me. While i've been a mini's game player for some years now, Malifaux made me step my painting/hobby game up, etc... I fell in love with it, and even won a regional league, so I feel very personally invested in all the right ways. :-)

    Likewise, I have played games with war-gear, so it isn't the concept that I dislike... I dislike it in Malifaux. In my opinion, Masters didn't need their personalities relegated to a system that makes the game take longer to set up. I have played a bunch of 2.0, and so has my club... and it really just doesn't feel like the system has any place in Malifaux.

    That said... i've invested hundreds of dollars, and obscene amounts of hobby hours to Malifaux, so i'm not going to throw them out and bitch on forums all day, to be sure... I'll probably just wait this out.... see if it flops, or thrives, and either adapt if the community consensus is that its still great, or i'll camp on my crews until V3. :-p


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 16:33:23


    Post by: Kroothawk


    The "You like Malifaux and chose a specific team you liked? Fine, now for something completely different!" approach is odd to say the least and reminds me of Confrontation when changing to 3rd edition. How can anyone be expected to buy rules now for 6 months? How can anyone be expected to buy new miniatures for the months to come? Esp. as Wyrd intents to go plastic? I hope, Malifaux survives this.



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 17:12:28


    Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


    The going plastic may be at a very convenient time......

    Folk will hold off on buying the rules/supplements as the game is changing,

    but this will be balanced out by them having to buy any of the metal minis they've been putting off before they change to plastic with a different look and feel


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 17:32:36


    Post by: Absolutionis


    I tend to put metal washers underneath all my minis, so plastic minis still have a sense of 'weight' to them. It's not too big of a difference between plastic and metal minis.

    Indeed it's difficult to find 30mm, 40mm, and 50mm washers in the US, but some stores carry them.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 17:47:01


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    Well, I know I budget about $100 a month toward Malifaux purchases for the wife and I... and V2 new struck as I was awaiting an order which, ironically was delivering some of the most nerfed, mucked up models as of beta.

    Needless to say, stuff like that will see me utterly stopping buying anything Malifaux until January.

    I do appreciate that I just had oddly terrible timing with all this. I bought into Malifaux about seven months ago, and went all in, instantly buying all the books, etc... As a result though, this happens so close to my initial purchases, that the sting of $100 of worthless books, oh so recently bought, feels terrible. :-p


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 19:50:59


    Post by: Forar


    I've played a few games. I like the scheme markers and the change to building a set of schemes, that's cool. Some of the models (that I use) were streamlined, some were nerfed, meh, against the baseline everything should wash out for the most part.

    But I'm not a fan of the upgrade system. I know why they're doing it, it's just not for me. As noted, it adds to the already considerable time to set up, though that naturally improves over time.

    However, of the 3 regular players in my crew, 1 utterly loathes the system (and may sell his partial Ressers), 1 is open to it and 1 is too busy to care. Of the infrequent players, 1 is open to it, 1 loathes it (and has his 4 crews up for sale) and the other is mostly MIA.

    I've been keeping my mind open, watching the stats and rules develop, but if those who loathe it drive it mostly underground in our usual haunt, I could see parting with 3 of my 6 crews (well, 8 actually, but I don't play Arcanists anymore) to free up space and some cash. I don't want to, but I also can't justify what will presumably hit $100+ after accounting for two books, two stat card blocks, and a figure or five (depending on how many new ones pop up in Book 2).


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 20:10:43


    Post by: Absolutionis


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    As a result though, this happens so close to my initial purchases, that the sting of $100 of worthless books, oh so recently bought, feels terrible. :-p
    Did you buy he books for the rules? The rules are available online for free and in the form of a $15 handbook if you want something physical to refer to.

    Did you buy the books for the fluff? It's been confirmed that the stories will not be returning and the storyline will be progressing. All the fluff is new stuff.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 21:00:45


    Post by: Vilegrimm


    Ouch. Yeah, buying everything all at once only to find out things are changing in the near future can take a bite out of the enjoyment. Sadly, that happens in our hobby and I really can't see a way for it to change; new editions happen, and for the most part I believe companies
    announce said edition changes once they are able to.

    @Kroothawk
    It's not really a "completely different" approach they are doing... at least, not as I see it. Some of the mechanics have changed, but not all. A lot of the Masters are still able to do what they were intended to do (unless what they could do broke the mold too much, or was considered
    game-breaking). It's just that unless you use upgrades, they don't have as many abilities to choose from. Seeing as how after years of watching some Masters never use some of their abilities, I don't find this to be a bad thing. And the new rules are coming in August, not in 6 months,
    so it's not that long to survive without them... and we still have the last Open Beta rules to demo with. For those who haven't seen their Masters show up yet, I believe Wyrd said that sometime in September or October we will see open beta testing for the rest of the current models not
    covered in M2E book 1.

    Finally, if your group isn't happy with the upgrade cards, why not come together as a group and decide on certain cards to add to the base Master/model as a "standard" add-on? That way, you know ahead of time which upgrades you have for the models
    you choose, and you could build in the costs for the non-Masters right then and there. It wouldn't work for any Official tournaments or League play, but it would allow a group of players to skip over the upgrade step if that's what they choose. That's just my personal opinion on the matter,
    though, and our group(s) will be doing it the usual way.

    -Vilegrimm


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 21:08:54


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


     Absolutionis wrote:
    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    As a result though, this happens so close to my initial purchases, that the sting of $100 of worthless books, oh so recently bought, feels terrible. :-p
    Did you buy he books for the rules? The rules are available online for free and in the form of a $15 handbook if you want something physical to refer to.

    Did you buy the books for the fluff? It's been confirmed that the stories will not be returning and the storyline will be progressing. All the fluff is new stuff.


    I don't really care about the fluff. I don't find it nearly as well written as I was told to expect before starting the game. It provided some fun background, and its flavor carried through to how many units played, but that was the extent of its value to me. I bought the books because I had no intention of buying models without seeing full stats, etc.... which require you buying expansion books....


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 22:48:23


    Post by: Kroothawk


     Vilegrimm wrote:
    And the new rules are coming in August, not in 6 months,

    This was announced in May. And I don't think, the new rulebooks will be in stores before November.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 22:56:12


    Post by: WUWU


    The new book is going to be available at GenCon and through their website during the convention. Not sure when it's being released to retailers though, but I want to say October


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 23:02:28


    Post by: cincydooley


    I really really really like that witchling.

    A lot.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/14 23:21:51


    Post by: Guildsman


     cincydooley wrote:
    I really really really like that witchling.

    A lot.

    Me too. It gives me a lot of hope for the death marshals.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/15 02:02:32


    Post by: Valhallan42nd


     Kroothawk wrote:
     Vilegrimm wrote:
    And the new rules are coming in August, not in 6 months,

    This was announced in May. And I don't think, the new rulebooks will be in stores before November.


    I do believe they'll be at Gencon.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/15 03:05:21


    Post by: Vilegrimm


    They are currently talking a September general release for the new edition rulebook, but that can be subject to change.

    -Vilegrimm


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/15 08:28:47


    Post by: Breotan


    They still putting the GenCon exclusive figures on their web store so the rest of us can buy some?



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/15 13:10:47


    Post by: Forar


     Breotan wrote:
    They still putting the GenCon exclusive figures on their web store so the rest of us can buy some?


    As far as I've heard, yes.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/15 15:54:51


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Vile, Nix has been vocal because if you look at his track record, and all that he's done for Wyrd and with Malifaux, it's a pretty abrupt thing to see him turn around and decry the actions of the company. The reason why I linked his blog is because while I love Malifaux, and still try to get in a few games a month at my store, he's voicing several concerns I've had/experienced with the new system. I'll continue to play Malifaux 1.5 as long as I can because I've bought the models, I've bought the books (I even went out of my way to find an original Malifaux Rulebook just because I wanted it in my collection), and I've organized events. Hell I'm running an achievement league the weekend after GenCon because I still enjoy the game.

    To quote RiTides (about a very similar topic, though not related to Wyrd), the reason why Henchmen were forgetting that Malifaux isn't their game has something to do with the idea that "the pressure is on the creators to make such an awesome gaming environment that the fans Enjoy it, and thus naturally want to bring in new players, paint their models, etc!" As Henchmen, this is their first duty, to promote Malifaux in a fun and positive way to show people why it's a great world and a great universe. This requires the game to be something that Henchmen can be enthusiastic about. The Henchmen that are having a hard time doing this aren't bad people, nor are they necessarily a pox upon the community but they can be, and that's where the company comes in and says, "We've noticed that plenty of you aren't happy with x, y, and z, what can we do (besides changing everything back) to help alleviate stress, build enthusiasm, and make this game fun again for you. Now it does appear that most of the people are happy with the changes, which is a good thing for Wyrd as it allows them to figure out if those that are disliking the changes are able to be happy, or are they an outlier that won't be appeased. I'm not saying this is a major issue with Wyrd, they're a good company from what I have experienced, there are just things with M2E that I as a player and gamer don't like.

    I will always recommend people look into Malifaux, it's a fantastic world, the models look awesome and it has an interesting set of mechanics. There are just pieces that I can't recommend because they're pieces that don't sit well with me, and these pieces are things that Nix was able to voice better than I can.

    Also, M2E was slated for October 2013 if I remember correctly, that's less than 6 months from the announcement (as I have a November birthday, May is 6 months before that ).


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/15 16:43:07


    Post by: Grot 6


    It was inevitable-

    the faction growth and a few of the teams need the expanded changes, not to mention its about time to start talking about larger scale games that are going to be able to play. Much as in how Warmahordes evolved, you see the same sort of thing going on here.

    "This requires the game to be something that Henchmen can be enthusiastic about. The Henchmen that are having a hard time doing this aren't bad people, nor are they necessarily a pox upon the community but they can be, and that's where the company comes in and says, "We've noticed that plenty of you aren't happy with x, y, and z, what can we do (besides changing everything back) to help alleviate stress, build enthusiasm, and make this game fun again for you. Now it does appear that most of the people are happy with the changes, which is a good thing for Wyrd as it allows them to figure out if those that are disliking the changes are able to be happy, or are they an outlier that won't be appeased. I'm not saying this is a major issue with Wyrd, they're a good company from what I have experienced, there are just things with M2E that I as a player and gamer don't like."

    This is a common sentiment as well. The companies issue is to not change too much too fast, or to be more commutative and keep players and the general information flow going.

    The result if not done so is akin to what you are seeing with GW's bang up job of community reverse Midas touch relations.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/15 19:56:53


    Post by: Vilegrimm


     Alfndrate wrote:
    Vile, Nix has been vocal because if you look at his track record, and all that he's done for Wyrd and with Malifaux, it's a pretty abrupt thing to see him turn around and decry the actions of the company. The reason why I linked his blog is because while I love Malifaux, and still try to get in a few games a month at my store, he's voicing several concerns I've had/experienced with the new system. I'll continue to play Malifaux 1.5 as long as I can because I've bought the models, I've bought the books (I even went out of my way to find an original Malifaux Rulebook just because I wanted it in my collection), and I've organized events. Hell I'm running an achievement league the weekend after GenCon because I still enjoy the game.


    I have no problem with him voicing his concerns in regards to the new system; I'm not all rosy-glowy with everything myself. However, the article linked says nothing about those concerns, and deals more with his idea that Malifaux 2nd Edition isn't being as well received as we are being lead to believe. I see no argument about any changed stats or mechanics, and many suppositions and extrapolations based on the forums that M2E is not doing well. Finally, he links Eric J's blog post about playtesting... which apparently has been taking out of context by the "community-at-large." Again, nothing on the issues he was concerned about, just more "look how Wyrd seems to treat people."

    Perhaps Nix has brought these concerns of his up elsewhere in a nice, concise and clear manner; perhaps not. But the linked article that he wrote does nothing to show me that, and instead (and I could be heavily opinionated too, just as Nix said in his article) I see someone who has quit the game, but is still hanging around and combing the forums for proof that he was right and more people are upset about the new Malifaux than happy. The overall article feels to me like a snide shot at the current higher-ups at Wyrd, that's all.

    -Vilegrimm


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/15 20:45:44


    Post by: Alfndrate


    I didn't link to a specific article, I linked to his entire blog... From mid-May/early June until the most recent article on his blog, everything has been about his life, his commissions, OR his thoughts on perceived issues with M2E. I'd go and quote distinct and direct articles, but blogspot is workblocked... lemme see if I can grab a quote via my phone. I can't grab the link atm but it was at the beginning of June. This article goes back to that idea that game creators need to create an environment in which people want to promote their games. If you are a prominent member (or heck even just a henchman in this case) of a gaming community, and you're told point blank that not only is your input not appreciated, but it's hindering the entire processing of tweaking the game, it can make for a very unfriendly environment, which sucks. I know this from first hand experience, fans of your game don't like being told, "We're not listening to your feedback." I realize that Malifaux is Wyrd's game and the direction it goes is entirely up to Wyrd, just like Brushfire and Endless: Fantasy Tactics' direction(s) are up to On the Lamb Games. As a game designer you want to move the game in such a way that you will bring in more people that you can lose when looking at a new edition. Ideally you'd rather grow your game without losing players that way you don't have to "replace" them, but that's a bit of a pipe dream.


    Edit: On to some positivity? (Or not, depending on your point of view D: ). The witchling stalker with the base on the sprue does not seem to be the norm
    Nathan Caroland said the following:
    Nathan Caroland wrote:That's a promo miniature being given away in a magazine - so the sprue layout as well as the included base aren't the norm.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/15 21:20:21


    Post by: bbb


     Alfndrate wrote:
    On to some positivity? (Or not, depending on your point of view D: ). The witchling stalker with the base on the sprue does not seem to be the norm
    Nathan Caroland said the following:
    Nathan Caroland wrote:That's a promo miniature being given away in a magazine - so the sprue layout as well as the included base aren't the norm.


    Hmm...That would mean there will probably be many inexpensive Witchling Stalkers to be had in the future...


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/16 01:57:09


    Post by: Vilegrimm


     Alfndrate wrote:
    I didn't link to a specific article, I linked to his entire blog... From mid-May/early June until the most recent article on his blog, everything has been about his life, his commissions, OR his thoughts on perceived issues with M2E.


    ah, okay, gotcha, and sorry for being obtuse on this. I've gone through a bunch of his posts and honestly, though he does have a few points, I really can't see the reasoning for his quitting, and now dissing the higher ups at Wyrd (see his comment about being a "liar"... did he actually read Eric's blog about playtesting?) To be honest, this is looking more like an ego/point-of-view clash between two individuals, with neither one giving in until the inevitable happened. I do feel for him, losing his community, et. al, but currently we only have his side of the story to go by, and no one at Wyrd is talking about what may have occurred during playtesting. Was he being helpful, rational and well spoken, or was he rambling, psychotic and nerd-raging because his favorite Master got "dumbed down?" We really don't know, which is why I take what he has to say about it all with a grain of salt...

    However, it's probably time to give that discussion a rest, and move on to something else of interest. I was saddened to hear that the Witchling Stalker was done for a magazine, and possibly/probably won't be in the Crew box. Maybe we can convince them to keep the mold for a pack o' 3 Stalkers? They're 1/3rd of the way there!

    The decent quality it shows is also a good sign that their plastics are developing nicely; makes me look forward to seeing what comes next.

    Finally, as an aside: did they ever post the rules for Avatars yet? I can't recall seeing them anywhere...

    -Vilegrimm


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/16 02:14:19


    Post by: Absolutionis


    Avatar rules aren't going to be in the first wave of Mv2, I believe.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/16 02:16:09


    Post by: Vilegrimm


    Yeah, I didn't recall reading them, but there is a reference in the Beta rules about Avatars, and read their full rules on p.@@... which made me wonder if the rules at least will be in Book 1.

    -Vilegrimm


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/16 09:51:38


    Post by: Kroothawk


    Announced 30th April, general release in October, will arrive in EU stores October-November, pretty close to 6 months to me.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/16 12:22:49


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Vilegrimm wrote:
    However, it's probably time to give that discussion a rest, and move on to something else of interest. I was saddened to hear that the Witchling Stalker was done for a magazine, and possibly/probably won't be in the Crew box. Maybe we can convince them to keep the mold for a pack o' 3 Stalkers? They're 1/3rd of the way there!


    It's probably gonna be in Ravage Magazine. Wyrd is a sponsor from what I can tell, so it'd probably be a good marketing move for them to ship CMON a bunch of witching stalkers to throw in with the magazine so that Ravage gets the bump by people wanting to buy it (for the mini), and Wyrd opens their doors to people wanting to see what game the Witchling Stalker goes to (i.e. Ravage Subscribers that don't play Malifaux).

    Which idk how well that will work for CMON, I still haven't gotten my issue 8 of the magazine.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/16 13:23:59


    Post by: Forar


     Absolutionis wrote:
    Avatar rules aren't going to be in the first wave of Mv2, I believe.


    Maybe they were removed or shuffled to Book 2, but I definitely read some new Avatar rules in one of the updates. They also described it in some podcasts, it's now a card flipping mechanic, and is a two way shift rather than one way (when the avatar 'dies' the master returns).


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/16 13:37:52


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Forar wrote:
     Absolutionis wrote:
    Avatar rules aren't going to be in the first wave of Mv2, I believe.


    Maybe they were removed or shuffled to Book 2, but I definitely read some new Avatar rules in one of the updates. They also described it in some podcasts, it's now a card flipping mechanic, and is a two way shift rather than one way (when the avatar 'dies' the master returns).


    PM incoming.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 02:45:05


    Post by: WUWU


    Seriously. The Avatar rules were not in the open playtest. Though, everything is pointing towards the rules being released in the forthcoming book


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 03:58:18


    Post by: Forar


    At a glance, no they weren't, but I believe Justin and Mack (?) went over them on some podcasts. There was definitely a forum thread about it and everything.

    But we never got any avatars to work with, so even knowing the base mechanics doesn't really give us much to work with, considering how the way they manifest and are used has changed so significantly.

    Edit: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?42024-Malifaux-2-0-Through-the-breach-transcript-highlights

    Avatars all manifest in the same way now, and can turn back later in the game as they take damage. Possibly they may only be used in 40SS games - not confirmed.

    Does anyone have a good summary for how the card stack works with the new Avatar summoning?
    With the caveat that it's subject to change:

    Every time the master activates, you flip a card. You may cheat this card. It is removed from the deck completely and put into a Manifest Stack. When that stack reaches a total equal to a certain target number (varies by master), the master Manifests. Then, every turn, one CARD is removed from that stack and put back into the deck. When the stack is empty, the master reverts to normal form.

    So you can cheat lower cards to get them out of your deck and delay manifesting, but have it last longer once you're up. Or, you can throw high cards at it, and manifest quickly, but burn out faster as well. They've mentioned they think being able to remove the black Joker from your deck may be too powerful and may have to have some specific rule for it, but were unsure what that rule would be at this point.


    And that's just from a cursory search.

    Edited to include more info because, unless I'm mistaken, some people seem to think I'm potentially leaking state secrets.

    This stuff is known.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 05:14:48


    Post by: Mindshred


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    Likewise, I have played games with war-gear, so it isn't the concept that I dislike... I dislike it in Malifaux. In my opinion, Masters didn't need their personalities relegated to a system that makes the game take longer to set up. I have played a bunch of 2.0, and so has my club... and it really just doesn't feel like the system has any place in Malifaux.


    Though the first game or two we played with the new rules took a bit longer to set up, once we got the hang of the system the set up time for 2E actually ended up being about the same as in 1E. You have upgrades you can purchase, but there really aren't a lot of them, and you're now spending much less time selecting schemes, so it more or less balanced out for us.

    Even if it does take you longer to pick which upgrades you like, that should only be two or three minutes at most once you've adjusted to the new rules. It's really not a very time-intensive process, and it still goes much faster than waiting for someone to make up a 40k army list.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 12:08:58


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Wait people actually spent time on picking schemes? I'd generally choose the faction or master specific scheme and frame for murder, holdout, eye for an eye, and a handful of other schemes depending on who my master was.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 13:14:36


    Post by: Forar


    Master Specific? Faction Specific?

    Clearly *somebody* doesn't play Guild. :-P

    ... our M/F schemes suck.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 13:18:53


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Forar wrote:
    Master Specific? Faction Specific?

    Clearly *somebody* doesn't play Guild. :-P

    ... our M/F schemes suck.


    I do Raid (or w/e one that you need to have a model on their side of the board) when I play my Lucius crew, which is generally LadyJ, Lucius, 3 Riflemen, Guild Guard Captain, Guild Guard, and w/e else I can fit in there. I'd like more guards, but that ain't happening atm .

    Edit: And I mostly play Neverborn, so I take Kidnap when I can. Eye for an Eye is next to impossible for me to get with my Pandora crew, it's too dang survivable. Though that has been reduced from what I saw in M2E (a shame, but I know people didn't like playing against her )


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 19:48:41


    Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


    Looking at the list of top 5 TTG lines posted by Cyporean (in the warhammer fantasy thread) it seems Malifaux was at No5 for 2010,11 & 12

    Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Spring 2013
    Title | Publisher
    #1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
    #2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
    #3 Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures | Fantasy Flight Games
    #4 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
    # 5 Hordes | Privateer Press

    http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/26216.html

    Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Spring 2012
    Title | Publisher
    #1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
    #2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
    #3 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
    #4 Hordes | Privateer Press
    #5 Malifaux | Wyrd Miniatures

    http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/23501.html

    Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Q2 2011
    Title | Publisher
    #1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
    #2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
    #3 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
    #4 Hordes | Privateer Press
    #5 Malifaux | Wyrd Miniatures

    http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/20744.html

    Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Q2 2010
    Title | Publisher
    #1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
    #2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
    #3 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
    #4 Hordes | Privateer Press
    #5 Malifaux | Wyrd Miniatures

    http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18046.html

    Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Q2 2009
    Title | Publisher
    #1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
    #2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
    #3 Hordes | Privateer Press
    #3 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
    #5 Dark Heaven | Reaper Miniatures

    but dropped out of the top five this year with X-wing crashing in at No3

    I wonder whether Malifaux sales numbers slipped (in which case there was a real need for this new version) or if they just held pace ?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 20:19:53


    Post by: Kroothawk


    Well X-Wing is certainly something special and unique with only a dozen products, but I doubt that with no rulebook for several months and the confusion about what is coming, Malifaux will get enough sales to jump into top 5 again, at least not before end of the year.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 21:11:16


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


    They also need to stop pretending Warmachine and Hordes are different games.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 21:34:32


    Post by: Motograter


    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    They also need to stop pretending Warmachine and Hordes are different games.


    Which if they were not registered as two different games they may well be. Alas they are different. As has been said by PP many times

    I like that witchling stalker. Certainly better looking than the rest of the plastics


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 22:03:04


    Post by: Forar


    It'd be interesting if the list were just condensed down to the parent companies in general. Games Workshop, Privateer Press, 3, 4 and 5.

    Also, I've seen similar lists around, but have heard the numbers are suspect, as in not necessarily based on hard numbers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing that some flavour of Warhammer is the biggest game around, but that the companies in question don't release hard numbers for an exacting comparison or anything, so it's based off a smaller dataset (some distributors? Some shops? Gut feeling?).

    That aside, I am curious to see how the community responds to 2.0. And I don't just mean the heated arguments on the forums, but in a 'voting with ones wallet' sense. How well the re-released crews sell, the new book, the decks of stat cards, etc.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 22:57:12


    Post by: Haight


    Motograter wrote:
    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    They also need to stop pretending Warmachine and Hordes are different games.


    Which if they were not registered as two different games they may well be. Alas they are different. As has been said by PP many times

    I like that witchling stalker. Certainly better looking than the rest of the plastics


    They share almost the entirely same ruleset, past the focus / fury mechanic. Past that one glaring difference, note that there are rules in one that directly affect the other (i.e. there are rules in WM that affect fury stat rules like transfering etc, and vice versa - Hordes rules that affect focus rules mechanics).

    It would be a lot simpler if they just combined them into a single rule-set game, a sub-declension of which was the focus mechanic or fury mechanic.

    -- Haight



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/17 23:05:32


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Forar wrote:
    It'd be interesting if the list were just condensed down to the parent companies in general. Games Workshop, Privateer Press, 3, 4 and 5.

    Also, I've seen similar lists around, but have heard the numbers are suspect, as in not necessarily based on hard numbers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing that some flavour of Warhammer is the biggest game around, but that the companies in question don't release hard numbers for an exacting comparison or anything, so it's based off a smaller dataset (some distributors? Some shops? Gut feeling?).

    That aside, I am curious to see how the community responds to 2.0. And I don't just mean the heated arguments on the forums, but in a 'voting with ones wallet' sense. How well the re-released crews sell, the new book, the decks of stat cards, etc.


    GW releases pretty solid numbers on their sales due to them being a publicly traded company.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 04:50:23


    Post by: Absolutionis


    Lady Justice plastic boxed set photo:



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 05:23:36


    Post by: spiralingcadaver


    Wow, pretty impressive looking. Still not wild about the middle jumping Death Marshal, but those are quite nice.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 10:10:04


    Post by: bbb


    That is a nice looking crew!


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 10:27:33


    Post by: spaceelf


    Those look good even in a bad photo.

    I think that with plastics like these Wyrd will do well.



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 11:17:09


    Post by: bbb


    Yeah, I agree. If they keep releasing kits that look as good as that one, then the strength of the new plastics will probably be enough to drive the game forward even if there are a lot of current players who don't like M2E.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 11:58:19


    Post by: Alfndrate


    EricJ also posted this on his twitter, which shows the witchling stalker and some Iron Zombies (as well as the aforementioned Lady J crew)




    Edit: For what it's worth, the minis have never been a bad thing for me with the jump to M2E (except that I may have to rebuy my favorite masters >_< ), just the rules... Though Jazz Hands Death Marshal needs to take a long step-ball-change* off of a short pier

    * - who knew I'd remember something from a high school musical I was a part of


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 12:21:00


    Post by: Kroothawk


    The timeline I have heard is the following:
    Prerelease of the main book on GenCon in August. Includes 3 masters each of 7 factions.
    Downloadable rules a bit later (September, October?).
    General official release is January in USA (and later for Europe). That's when normal people can buy the main rulebook plus plastic starters for all included masters (that would be 21 plastic starters, quite ambitious, I doubt they can pull that off).
    January is also the month, when the new edition officially replaces the old one.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 14:12:53


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Kroothawk wrote:
    The timeline I have heard is the following:
    Prerelease of the main book on GenCon in August. Includes 3 masters each of 7 factions.
    Downloadable rules a bit later (September, October?).
    General official release is January in USA (and later for Europe). That's when normal people can buy the main rulebook plus plastic starters for all included masters (that would be 21 plastic starters, quite ambitious, I doubt they can pull that off).
    January is also the month, when the new edition officially replaces the old one.


    Your timeline contradicts what's in the OP of the thread, and if you can provide solid information I'll be happy to update . From my knowledge it's the following:

    Pre-release at GenCon (Wyrd's announcement for GenCon 2013 Releases says "Malifaux, 2nd Edition" and Minis )
    Regular release in October. Though this might mean that Wyrd won't have it in their webstore until November as they always try to give it to the FLGS first.
    All Events (those put on by Henchmen and those sponsored by Wyrd) will officially use M2E's rules starting in January (I believe it's like Jan 15th). Which is officially when 'replaces' the old which which supports your last point.

    I don't see Wyrd releasing all of the plastic starters in a single month since that isn't how they've been operating over the past few years. It's most likely going to be something along these lines:

    August Pre-release- W/e they decide + Rulebook
    October 2013 through July 2014 - X number of starters (2 to 3?), Y Number of Blisters, replacing metal with plastic as it gets released.

    But like I said, I'd be happy to update the OP if you can provide solid evidence of your timeline


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 14:41:52


    Post by: Bossk_Hogg


    Motograter wrote:
    Bossk_Hogg wrote:
    They also need to stop pretending Warmachine and Hordes are different games.


    Which if they were not registered as two different games they may well be. Alas they are different. As has been said by PP many times

    I like that witchling stalker. Certainly better looking than the rest of the plastics


    You're grasping at semantics. They are played against each other in tournaments, they share models and rules. They're two sub groups of factions in the same game. Its like splitting off orcs and chaos from the rest of 40k because they have stupid random rules thrown in them.

    To bring it back on topic... WOW. Those new plastics look amazing. Except for the jazz hands death marshall. Someone's digital sculptor leveled up! I'd planned on picking up more metals when they inevitably hit clearance, but now I'm thinking that may end up being a waste of time to paint them if the plastics look this much better.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 17:32:39


    Post by: Forar


    The thing that makes me happiest is the single piece witchling stalker.

    The way the pieces were split up for the Guild Riflemen was simply bonkers. It was said on the forums that part of the issue was that they were letting the company/whomever that was producing the figures make the cut points, and they didn't care about ease of assembly, just ease of mold production, or something like that. After a few rounds of this they sorted the issue out and now we have vastly more reasonable figures.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/18 19:57:26


    Post by: RogueRegault


     Absolutionis wrote:
    Lady Justice plastic boxed set photo:



    Dang, looks like I'm buying the new box set.

    Models are so much better than the old...


    Personally, I really like the upgrades system. Anything that moves a game more towards "your dudes" and away from the AEG-style metaplot infecting Warmahordes can only be a bonus.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/19 13:25:53


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    The models are indeed amazing... but i'm afraid that is all it is going to take for Wyrd to keep making money, and thus not necessarily worry about being the best steward of their game.

    As a local friend pointed out to me, Malifaux 2.0 lost me, my wife, a friend, and several other players, as it stands right now... BUT our store already has one or two guys who literally buy and paint every single Wyrd release. The money they make off of nutters mass buying anything new, sight unseen, will more than make up for the five/six players (out of maybe 20... so a massive percentage) that stop buying our few crews and stray extras.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/19 14:09:33


    Post by: Forar


    It's a tough call to make. Obviously they think that they'll draw in more players and get some people who re-purchase a crew or faction or the whole line, but that's weighed against people who pass on the game entirely (or simply stick with 1.5 with the rules and figures they have).

    I mean, they wouldn't be doing this if someone hadn't run the numbers and come up with a belief that between book sales and new/replacement box purchases, they weren't going to come out ahead, but we all know there'll be some collateral damage.

    As expressed a few times now, my crew may be among those lost, which is unfortunate.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/19 14:22:46


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Yeah, I don't look forward to the idea of having to rebuy my entire crew. Sure the minis might look better, but I've already put the time and effort into assembly!

    Ideally Wyrd would love (at minimum) 2 new players for every 1 player that leaves. In a realistic fashion, they'd probably want between 3 and 5, just enough to get a small community going and growing.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/19 19:40:15


    Post by: fishy bob


    So is this a bad time to get into Malifaux?

    And what's all this about re-buying your crews? Why do you have to do that?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/19 19:45:20


    Post by: bbb


    You'd only have to rebuy your crew if you liked the new plastic version better, otherwise you can just play with your old models.

    The rules in the rulebooks will all be invalid soon, so unless you're buying them just for the fluff, then I'd avoid picking them up.

    If you know what crew you want to run you might want to hold off till you know if it will be out in plasic soon.

    So, yes, not the best time to get into the game, but if you already know people who play, then you can get started, but know that the rules will be slightly changing in the near future.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/19 20:20:42


    Post by: Elemental


     Forar wrote:

    As expressed a few times now, my crew may be among those lost, which is unfortunate.


    What do you mean, "lost"?

     Alfndrate wrote:
    Yeah, I don't look forward to the idea of having to rebuy my entire crew.


    Um, why would you need to do that? These are resculpts. GW, Privateer, and Corvus Belli have all done that, and it very seldom invalidates the originals for use in play. I think there's a grand total of two models that don't get their rules updated, non-master Misaki and non-master Hamelin, and in the first case, I can't imagine any problem with using old Misaki to represent master-level Misaki. Heck, you could probably use old Hamelin as master-Hamelin if you re-mount him on a smaller base.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/19 20:26:27


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Elemental wrote:
     Forar wrote:

    As expressed a few times now, my crew may be among those lost, which is unfortunate.


    What do you mean, "lost"?

     Alfndrate wrote:
    Yeah, I don't look forward to the idea of having to rebuy my entire crew.


    Um, why would you need to do that? These are resculpts. GW, Privateer, and Corvus Belli have all done that, and it very seldom invalidates the originals for use in play. I think there's a grand total of two models that don't get their rules updated, non-master Misaki and non-master Hamelin, and in the first case, I can't imagine any problem with using old Misaki to represent master-level Misaki. Heck, you could probably use old Hamelin as master-Hamelin if you re-mount him on a smaller base.


    please don't just grab the one sentence that makes me look like a douche, grab all the sentences that make me look like a douche. I clearly said what you quoted, and I also said, "Sure the minis might look better, but I've already put the time and effort... blah blah blah..."

    Compare those plastic pictures of Stripper Heel Justice with this:



    Those sculpts are very static, kind of boring, and are showing their age a little.

    Stripper Heels up there has an awesome looking crew, that I'd want, but I don't want to rebuy her JUST because she looks better.

    Also we have no clue how they're going to disemminate the new stat cards. They said they'd do it in the least painful way possible, they could mean least painful for them and force us to buy the new boxes for the cards . I doubt they'd do that, but ya never know

    Edit: As to Forar's comment, his local play group hasn't been taking to M2E very well which is why he's lost them.

    Edit the Second: As to the idea of using Minion Misaki and Hamelin, YOU HAVE to use the Master's model because there are different things about the model, and it's basically WYSIWYG for Malifaux. And Master Hamelin has been out since Book 2, and Master Misaki has been out since Book 4. I doubt she's getting a resculpt since her box is already plastic. Hamelin most likely is.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/20 02:53:58


    Post by: Forar


    As Alf pointed out, of my regular players, most seem either indifferent or outright hostile to the new version. At best we may stick with 1.5, at worst we might abandon the game entirely (especially with over a grand in Robotech figures coming theoretically in October). There's no point in a couple of us dropping cash on the new rule book, stat cards and whatnot if the rare game we manage to get going is 1.5 anyway.

    As expected with any edition change, there'll be some folks who just aren't interested in moving along, be it cost or attachment to the old version or whatever. D&D sees it, some video games see it, I know Warhammer sees it, etc. An edition change can be a good time to clean up the rules, freshen up the mechanics and try something new while hopefully retaining the spirit of the old, but at the same time it's also a financial venture, and it's not surprising that some people simply don't have the time, money or effort to commit to such changes. In the cold business math of the matter, the company presumably hopes that they see more people who join in (new, returning or staying) than leave.

    As for the stat cards, the word I've heard is that there'll be a stat card pack available around Gencon, with the book and (some?) of the new plastic box re-releases. This deck is supposed to contain all of the book 1 figures and upgrades, to get people started. I believe the idea is that when book 2 is released along with the new versions of the remaining figures, there'll be Faction decks released that cover each of those. Now, whether they'll skip the book 1 cards this time, or just have it be a full faction, or what, is all unclear.

    But no, you will not need to spend $30-40 per crew just to get stat cards. They haven't set a price point on the decks yet, but we've been told they are aiming to make it affordable.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/20 15:53:25


    Post by: Fenriswulf


    Stat cards are something I wish they had of done from the beginning, as I like Malifaux miniatures, but not all of them. Being able to buy complete faction sets of cards would be really handy.

    One problem I have with the move to plastic miniatures is that a lot of factions all come on one big sprue, making it pretty much impossible to buy a single figure off it. I would like a Jacob Lynch by himself to use as a different figure, but I don't want to have to buy a $40 set to get him.

    As to the change to the system, it will be interesting to see what they do with it.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/20 16:40:48


    Post by: Elemental


     Alfndrate wrote:

    please don't just grab the one sentence that makes me look like a douche, grab all the sentences that make me look like a douche. I clearly said what you quoted, and I also said, "Sure the minis might look better, but I've already put the time and effort... blah blah blah..."


    Sorry, I misunderstood you. I wasn't trying to make you look bad.

     Alfndrate wrote:
    Edit the Second: As to the idea of using Minion Misaki and Hamelin, YOU HAVE to use the Master's model because there are different things about the model, and it's basically WYSIWYG for Malifaux. And Master Hamelin has been out since Book 2, and Master Misaki has been out since Book 4. I doubt she's getting a resculpt since her box is already plastic. Hamelin most likely is.


    Huh, got a citation for that? I had a quick look on the Wyrd forums, and I can't see any "standard" rules for proxying in organised play, like Privateer have, it seems to be up to event organisers, and since there's only one version of both characters in the game now, it's not like anyone will confuse their non-Master model with something else.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/20 21:19:57


    Post by: spiralingcadaver


    Elemental, I'm pretty sure that Wyrd has stated that you can use the older versions of the models.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/20 22:34:46


    Post by: Forar


    I believe in the official rules, you can use an altered figure as long as it's at least 75% Wyrd product.

    ... that said, I have no idea how that'd play with using, say, an Austringer as a Guild Guard. Like, I'm not certain about proxying with Wyrd miniatures directly.

    But using the old Hamelin as the new? Assuming they're both similar sized figures on a 30mm base, I can't see the harm for casual, but for a tournament I'd speak to the organizer ahead of time. Preferably via email so you'd have something 'in writing'.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/21 00:42:24


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Elemental wrote:
     Alfndrate wrote:
    Edit the Second: As to the idea of using Minion Misaki and Hamelin, YOU HAVE to use the Master's model because there are different things about the model, and it's basically WYSIWYG for Malifaux. And Master Hamelin has been out since Book 2, and Master Misaki has been out since Book 4. I doubt she's getting a resculpt since her box is already plastic. Hamelin most likely is.


    Huh, got a citation for that? I had a quick look on the Wyrd forums, and I can't see any "standard" rules for proxying in organised play, like Privateer have, it seems to be up to event organisers, and since there's only one version of both characters in the game now, it's not like anyone will confuse their non-Master model with something else.


    It falls under the proxy rules from the old gaining grounds document that Proxies were not allowed, the current document says that Proxies are allowed in gaining grounds at TO's approval. Official Wyrd events, which use the Governor's Decree document however (like tournaments at a convention where Wyrd has an official presence, so like GenCon but not AdeptiCon) Proxies are not allowed. So you cannot use this model:


    to represent this model:


    And you most definitely cannot use this model:


    to represent this model:


    But that last one is mostly because Hamelin, the Rat catcher is on a 50mm base and Hamelin the Plagued is on a 30mm base. Those models (Misaki, Warmaiden and Hamelin, Rat catcher) are disappearing in M2E because they have masters already (Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders and Hamelin, the Plagued) which is completely fine as it didn't make too much sense in the concept of the whole story when a model was both a master and a minion in the game, but had already ascended to Master status/has an avatar.

    As a personal aside, I use the old Pandora, Avatar of Woe model seen here as a proxy for the regular version of Pandora. The AoW had to be dropped from a 40mm base to a 30mm, but she's on that tiny box, I'm not sure what the issue is .

    spiralingcadaver wrote:Elemental, I'm pretty sure that Wyrd has stated that you can use the older versions of the models.


    can or can't?

    Forar wrote:I believe in the official rules, you can use an altered figure as long as it's at least 75% Wyrd product.

    ... that said, I have no idea how that'd play with using, say, an Austringer as a Guild Guard. Like, I'm not certain about proxying with Wyrd miniatures directly.

    But using the old Hamelin as the new? Assuming they're both similar sized figures on a 30mm base, I can't see the harm for casual, but for a tournament I'd speak to the organizer ahead of time. Preferably via email so you'd have something 'in writing'.


    Technically the conversion rules are 66% (as it states you can use up to 33% of other company's components...


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/21 07:52:21


    Post by: Ozymandias


    Don't be silly, you can use minion Misaki as master Misaki, Mack even suggested that in a podcast. Also, it's not like Wyrd is going to come steal your models, you can use whatever you want.

    I really get the feeling a lot of the negative reaction is based on knee-jerk, arm-chair developer mind sets. I've only played a few games so far, but 2.0 has been way superior to 1.5.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/21 14:24:06


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Ozymandias wrote:
    Don't be silly, you can use minion Misaki as master Misaki, Mack even suggested that in a podcast.

    Nice, nothing like having a developer go against their official tournament rulings. For casual events, yeah it doesn't matter as long as you and your friend know wtf is going on. What podcast is this, so I can use minion Misaki as Master Misaki at GenCon, and offer that recording as proof . (Jk, I'm too busy at GenCon to play in a Wyrd tournament )

    Also, it's not like Wyrd is going to come steal your models, you can use whatever you want.

    That has never been the crux of the "rebuying your crews" argument. I know that I don't have to rebuy my crews, unless I like the looks of the new ones better.

    I really get the feeling a lot of the negative reaction is based on knee-jerk, arm-chair developer mind sets. I've only played a few games so far, but 2.0 has been way superior to 1.5.

    In probably 2/3rds of the cases, you're probably right, but there are people that don't like the new rules for a variety of reasons after playing "a few games" (technically that's 3 or more), and M2E just doesn't scratch them the way 1.5 did.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/21 15:56:23


    Post by: Ozymandias


    There is no buying a new crew argument. You don't "have" to buy the new plastic crews. If you like the look of them, you can "choose" to buy them, or you can keep using your metal models, the choice is yours. Honestly, this is the first time that I've ever seen a company redoing their models to make them better ever listed as a negative, it's blowing my mind.

    As an example, for my Vampire Counts army in WHFB, I have 3 generations of skeletons. I have the really, really old ones from back in 4th ed, then the updated 5th or 6th ed ones (the ones still in use for Tomb Kings), and then the most current ones (7th ed?), that are awesome looking. Did I think each time that I "had" to upgrade my skeleton unit? No, I liked the look of the updated models so I choose to get the new ones.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/21 16:42:48


    Post by: Elemental


     Alfndrate wrote:

    But that last one is mostly because Hamelin, the Rat catcher is on a 50mm base and Hamelin the Plagued is on a 30mm base. Those models (Misaki, Warmaiden and Hamelin, Rat catcher) are disappearing in M2E because they have masters already (Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders and Hamelin, the Plagued) which is completely fine as it didn't make too much sense in the concept of the whole story when a model was both a master and a minion in the game, but had already ascended to Master status/has an avatar.


    Well, it's not like there's no precedent for a character in Malifaux fighting a duplicate of themselves.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/21 23:57:01


    Post by: Absolutionis


    What a fabricated controversy...

    When Malifaux remade many of the masters into their second editions' alternate sculpts, they didn't obsolete the original sculpts by disallowing them. Plus, I've been to several tournaments where people ran minion Hamelin and avatar Hamelin on a 30mm base and treated it as Master Hamelin; this was allowed (and encouraged because the official Master Hamelin is ugly). Then again, it wasn't a Wyrd-sponsored event.

    Plus, it's been mentioned several times that they'll make the Mv2 cards available for purchase separately. Why would they offer such a thing if they didn't plan to allow metal sculpts of previous models.

    Nothing is being obsoleted and disallowed, and any rumors of such happening is just sensationalist.

    Let's whine about that bridge when and if we come to it.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 00:51:32


    Post by: Lalochezia


    The old metal sculpts will remain perfectly tournament legal.

    Minion Misaki and minion Hamelin have not received stats in 2.0 (and won't) because they were upgraded to masters. However, their old metal sculpts will be tournament legal proxies for their master version (in 2.0, not in 1.5 as they have stats in 1.5).

    And faction decks of stat cards will be available.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 01:56:35


    Post by: Breotan


     Absolutionis wrote:
    What a fabricated controversy...
    That's pretty much my take on it. Telling you to essentially throw out all your old models is what WizKids tried to do MageKnight, MechWarrior, etc. and look where it got them.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 11:47:56


    Post by: Alfndrate


    I've never said that you won't be able to use your old models, I said that you won't be able to use Hamelin, Rat Catcher, and Misaki, warmaiden because those models statcards/unit entries are being retired, (confirmed by a Wyrd employee on this very page). I said I have to rebuy my crews if I like them. Technically Oz, I mispoke and you're right it should have been "I choose to rebuy" my crews, which sucks because I like the looks of the art and the plastic sculpts of these models but I'd rather use them for Malifaux 1.5 than M2E. New sculpts (when they don't look terrible) are NEVER a bad thing. Jesus everyone is taking this way too seriously. I was simply answering Elemental's question about the proxying rule.

    So since this thread has the eye of Wyrd atm... I've got some questions.
    1) Since sculpts like minion Hamelin and Misaki are going to be acceptable proxies for their master versions, does this mean that the Governor's Decree rules are changing to match up with the Gaining Grounds rules?
    2) How are faction decks being distributed, and how many "extras" can we expect in a pack? Like Stitched together are Rare 3 (don't remember if this is changing in M2E), will there be 3 Stitched Together stat cards in the faction decks?
    3) What's the pricing going to look like on these faction decks? Will they be similar in size and price to PP's faction decks, will they be slimmer and cheaper? Plastic, or paper? Boxers or briefs?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 12:05:29


    Post by: Emperors_Champion


    After recently completing the Resser faction, I'm kinda hoping the re-sculpts arn't TOO awesome!

    I was looking forward to stating a new Faction in M2E and just adding any newbies to the Ressers. . . . That just won't happen if I feel the need to re buy most (if not all) the Resurrectionists!


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 13:15:53


    Post by: bbb


     Emperors_Champion wrote:
    After recently completing the Resser faction, I'm kinda hoping the re-sculpts arn't TOO awesome!

    I was looking forward to stating a new Faction in M2E and just adding any newbies to the Ressers. . . . That just won't happen if I feel the need to re buy most (if not all) the Resurrectionists!


    I know! I'm just a Hoarcat Pride away from owning all the Book 1 Arcanists...


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 13:54:07


    Post by: Valhallan42nd


    Please make a better gaki sculpt, please make a better gaki sculpt, please make a better gaki sculpt....


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 15:06:36


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    Here's something Wyrd could do in good-faith, to undo much of my and my group's loathing of V2.0....

    Considering I was responsible for getting four players into the game in the last six months, all of whom have spent heavily, how about miming what the Flames of War folks did, and offering a free/at-cost trade up of your rules books?

    I get looked at by every one of those players whom I brought into the game... who dropped $50 or more on books alone, and who now are being told those books are worthless aside from fluff.

    That would go a long, long way, to changing my attitude, which at present is still "leave Wyrd, leave the game"


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 15:30:05


    Post by: Alfndrate




    While I don't see this happening, I'd love to see this. Though I'd totally be okay if they did it on a Rules Manual basis. Trade in your Malifaux 1st Ed Rules Manual (the little 15 dollar book) and get M2E's rules manual.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 15:31:59


    Post by: bbb


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    Here's something Wyrd could do in good-faith, to undo much of my and my group's loathing of V2.0....

    Considering I was responsible for getting four players into the game in the last six months, all of whom have spent heavily, how about miming what the Flames of War folks did, and offering a free/at-cost trade up of your rules books?

    I get looked at by every one of those players whom I brought into the game... who dropped $50 or more on books alone, and who now are being told those books are worthless aside from fluff.

    That would go a long, long way, to changing my attitude, which at present is still "leave Wyrd, leave the game"


    I could have sworn that I heard that they were going to do something like that. Hopefully at least they'll do a free pdf like they did before.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 15:35:45


    Post by: Alfndrate


     bbb wrote:
    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    I could have sworn that I heard that they were going to do something like that. Hopefully at least they'll do a free pdf like they did before.


    I hope you can find that! I already expect to purchase a new rulebook, but if Wyrd could make it easier on my wallet that would be fantastic!


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 15:47:59


    Post by: Fenriswulf


    Yeah I bought the 1.5 mini rulebook, but have yet to really use it, so a discount would be nice, otherwise I have a bunch of books which have nice fluff, but no real functional use otherwise.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 15:49:46


    Post by: Valhallan42nd


    I really don't see that happening.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 16:17:01


    Post by: Emperors_Champion


    It would be nice but tbh I think because that they have been so open with the fact there is a new version coming is actually part of the problem.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing how they opened up the forum to the beta testing and that they seemed to have taken a lot of peoples feedback and suggestions and put them to use.

    However that has in turn led people to begrudge buying anything new or more annoying, new players buying the rulebooks only to find out they're only valid for a few months.

    It's really just a matter of inconveinent timing for some people and it's only cause we know (as in, really know, not just rumors) it's all coming. Let's face it, Wyrd couldn't possibly put out a world wide announcement asking people not to buy their stuff for 6 months or so! I'm sure they knew that they would face a lot of issues with a replacement version but they obviously felt the need to do it to progress their business!

    Plus, it's not like a certain other slightly more famous company who tell their customers diddley squat and would fleece a 9 year old out of 50 quid or so the day before a new edition got unpacked onto the store shelf! But that's off topic!


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 16:51:10


    Post by: bbb


     Emperors_Champion wrote:
    It would be nice but tbh I think because that they have been so open with the fact there is a new version coming is actually part of the problem.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing how they opened up the forum to the beta testing and that they seemed to have taken a lot of peoples feedback and suggestions and put them to use.

    However that has in turn led people to begrudge buying anything new or more annoying, new players buying the rulebooks only to find out they're only valid for a few months.

    It's really just a matter of inconveinent timing for some people and it's only cause we know (as in, really know, not just rumors) it's all coming. Let's face it, Wyrd couldn't possibly put out a world wide announcement asking people not to buy their stuff for 6 months or so! I'm sure they knew that they would face a lot of issues with a replacement version but they obviously felt the need to do it to progress their business!

    Plus, it's not like a certain other slightly more famous company who tell their customers diddley squat and would fleece a 9 year old out of 50 quid or so the day before a new edition got unpacked onto the store shelf! But that's off topic!


    It actually spurred me on to pick up some more things since I wanted to make sure I could still get the metal version. After the new plastics are released I'd think the prices for the old models would drop on the secondary market, but there were a few models I just wanted to make sure I had. I know I'm in the minority, though.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 17:17:18


    Post by: Absolutionis


    Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 17:35:49


    Post by: Valhallan42nd


    Some probably did. I'm coming from $75.00 rulebook, $50 codex land, so perhaps my perception is skewed, but having to replace a $35 rulebook seems not so bad.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 17:40:01


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Absolutionis wrote:
    Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?


    No idea, MkII was released before I started wargaming.

    Again, I don't care if I have to purchase a new rulebook as I expect to have to purchase one. If they have in a trade in program, bonus!

    I think the biggest thing I'd rather see at release is a rules manual. I beat the hell out of my current one, and it's still fine. I rarely crack open my Book 1 because it's out of print (the original book, not the 1.5 re-release from GenCon last year).


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/22 20:55:52


    Post by: Forar


     Valhallan42nd wrote:
    Some probably did. I'm coming from $75.00 rulebook, $50 codex land, so perhaps my perception is skewed, but having to replace a $35 rulebook seems not so bad.


    Well, 1 rulebook in August/October, a second one around Dec/Jan I believe, two decks of stat cards (first round of Book 1, then faction decks with book 2, possibly more for those who play more than one faction regularly). Do it during Gencon and you add paying full MSRP onto significant (read: $28-33) S&H, plus the cost of the deck (said to be "affordable" but no actual price that I've seen yet) and it starts to add up pretty quickly just to keep up with the edition itself.

    Plus the new figures, but that goes without saying, and I would've expected new figures whether it was 2.0 or simply book 5.

    The advantage to the Book 1 deck is that I could feasibly buy the deck and split the cost (if it's $10+, otherwise I probably wouldn't care) and give cards I don't need to friends who do. Could feasibly hook up my entire crew with 2 decks, as there isn't a ton of overlap in factions.

    Once they go to flat out faction decks, however, it's pretty much every man/woman for themselves.

    I do love the mini rules manual, hopefully another version of that is produced.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/23 03:46:21


    Post by: Alfndrate


    In case anyone was worried about the minions in the starter boxes only being in the starter box, there is a picture of the ice gamin box on ericj's twitter. The only thng this doesn't answer is if the masters come in a separate box. I would hope so, or even a master and totem combo.

    He also has the art up for the gremlin arsenal box (wave 1) which is the name for the card boxes.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/23 03:57:24


    Post by: Cyporiean


     Absolutionis wrote:
    Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?


    Yes, the sky was falling.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/23 08:12:51


    Post by: Elemental


     Cyporiean wrote:
     Absolutionis wrote:
    Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?


    Yes, the sky was falling.


    Though Mk1 now seems to be almost entirely forgotten.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/23 12:30:34


    Post by: Alfndrate


     Alfndrate wrote:
    In case anyone was worried about the minions in the starter boxes only being in the starter box, there is a picture of the ice gamin box on ericj's twitter. The only thng this doesn't answer is if the masters come in a separate box. I would hope so, or even a master and totem combo.

    He also has the art up for the gremlin arsenal box (wave 1) which is the name for the card boxes.


    As an update to this, I asked ericj if they would be releasing the sum of the boxes's parts separately, like Rasputina purchasable outside of the starter, and the reply I got was this:
    "Not all models will be available separately from their starter box"

    Also some more artwork for people interested.
    Arsenal Box for Neverborn and Gremlins



    and Ice Gamin box


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/23 19:39:02


    Post by: Lalochezia


     Alfndrate wrote:
    I've never said that you won't be able to use your old models, I said that you won't be able to use Hamelin, Rat Catcher, and Misaki, warmaiden because those models statcards/unit entries are being retired, (confirmed by a Wyrd employee on this very page). I said I have to rebuy my crews if I like them. Technically Oz, I mispoke and you're right it should have been "I choose to rebuy" my crews, which sucks because I like the looks of the art and the plastic sculpts of these models but I'd rather use them for Malifaux 1.5 than M2E. New sculpts (when they don't look terrible) are NEVER a bad thing. Jesus everyone is taking this way too seriously. I was simply answering Elemental's question about the proxying rule.

    So since this thread has the eye of Wyrd atm... I've got some questions.
    1) Since sculpts like minion Hamelin and Misaki are going to be acceptable proxies for their master versions, does this mean that the Governor's Decree rules are changing to match up with the Gaining Grounds rules?
    2) How are faction decks being distributed, and how many "extras" can we expect in a pack? Like Stitched together are Rare 3 (don't remember if this is changing in M2E), will there be 3 Stitched Together stat cards in the faction decks?
    3) What's the pricing going to look like on these faction decks? Will they be similar in size and price to PP's faction decks, will they be slimmer and cheaper? Plastic, or paper? Boxers or briefs?


    Well, looks like Eric handled it, but...

    1) Yes, the Governor's Decree and Gaining Grounds tournament rules will be changing. I aim to have new documents released by next January when M2E is officially tournament legal. I will likely make a specific note about Hamelin and Misaki (I say likely simply because I'm not certain it's necessary, but they will be legal models to use as their master versions in 2.0 regardless)

    2) Each faction will get its own faction deck with all of the models/upgrades for that faction in the first wave of models. Duplicates will be provided where necessary.

    3) No idea. I'm not on the production side of things. I can talk all day about rules, though.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/23 19:43:48


    Post by: Alfndrate


    Thanks Justin,

    Besides the Inhabitants of Malifaux pdf, any updates on Through the Breach? While I might not be on the M2E train, I've got this weird gremlin shaped rash that has been itching for my Malifaux RPG


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/24 13:48:02


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


     Absolutionis wrote:
    Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?


    They didn't have to... that rule-set actually IMPROVED the game, in a pretty unanimously received way.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/24 16:50:23


    Post by: solkan


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
     Absolutionis wrote:
    Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?


    They didn't have to... that rule-set actually IMPROVED the game, in a pretty unanimously received way.


    Maybe they didn't have to because they could find plenty of other changes to complain about?

    Instead of complaining about the rules for Warmachine Mk II, a share of the population spent endless hours either:
    1. Complaining about the changes to various models.
    2. Complaining about the choice of point scales
    3. Complaining about the changes to the special rules on the models.



    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/25 13:36:01


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


     solkan wrote:
    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
     Absolutionis wrote:
    Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?


    They didn't have to... that rule-set actually IMPROVED the game, in a pretty unanimously received way.


    Maybe they didn't have to because they could find plenty of other changes to complain about?

    Instead of complaining about the rules for Warmachine Mk II, a share of the population spent endless hours either:
    1. Complaining about the changes to various models.
    2. Complaining about the choice of point scales
    3. Complaining about the changes to the special rules on the models.



    So you mean, like Malifaux V2.0(aside from model complaints)? Got it.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/25 16:23:01


    Post by: spiralingcadaver


    Probably. People have their favorite pieces, and they tend to obsess over them not being great, so OP things are sometimes ignored and pieces no one's vocal about stay terrible.


    Malifaux 2nd Edition - October 2013, Public Beta Playtest is Live! @ 2013/07/26 07:38:19


    Post by: Wise Guy Sam




    Malifaux 2E cover

    From twitter.

    I think it looks fantastic.