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Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 22:22:10


Post by: Arais


Im one of the few people out there that play SoB (Or BT for that matter, theres a joke for you!) and as of right now, am curiously disgusted with the lack of updates or models with GW. We had the '5th edition update', which was 3rd edition but the same thing but with units removed, and no new plastic units for the army since its INCEPTION. A few friends of mine, really want to get into 40k, but they cant fathom paying 800+ dollars for pounds and pounds of metal models that dont even have their own codex. On top of that, the pure brutal, terrible fluff written about them recently (Hint: See Grey Knights) makes me so sick I want to throw up.

Im thinking they are planning of either phasing out the SoB completely, or moving some units into another Grey Knights codex for 6E. Its a shame they are losing customers over this, I am pretty sure there have to be SOME SoB players (Or want to play) out there.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 22:26:32


Post by: Waaaghpower


They aren't dead, just on the back burner while GW focuses on things that are guaranteed to bring in dollar signs.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 22:31:51


Post by: Lobokai


Who are the Sisters if Battle?


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 22:32:03


Post by: Sir Samuel Buca


Same thread, different day.
SoB don't get updated because they don't generate enough sales to justify it. Simple as. You're disgusted, big deal. GW is a business, they make business decisions. They don't care if you're disgusted by them choosing not to make changes to their own product, at great personal cost themselves, just to make the minority of their fan base happy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Waaaghpower wrote:
They aren't dead, just on the back burner while GW focuses on things that are guaranteed to bring in dollar signs.


*Pound signs.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 22:34:08


Post by: Lobokai


I'd like to see them, AM, GK, and assassins all rolled into an "Agents of the Imperium" codex.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 22:49:35


Post by: Madcat87


It's a shame they don't do anything about this, not even just a simple here's a box of ten plastic sisters to hold you over.

I just can't forget that one time in a GW store I saw a young teenage girl come in with her parents all excited about sisters of battle with her Witch Hunters codex ready only to find out what the state of the army is. Hell the guy serving them had to come ask me (a sisters player) on what's the deal with the army and the new codex. Guess how much money she spent in the store that day.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 23:15:43


Post by: A GumyBear


 Madcat87 wrote:
It's a shame they don't do anything about this, not even just a simple here's a box of ten plastic sisters to hold you over.

I just can't forget that one time in a GW store I saw a young teenage girl come in with her parents all excited about sisters of battle with her Witch Hunters codex ready only to find out what the state of the army is. Hell the guy serving them had to come ask me (a sisters player) on what's the deal with the army and the new codex. Guess how much money she spent in the store that day.


Either 0, or all her birthday, holiday, and allowance money (maybe even college savings )


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 23:16:34


Post by: Troike


Nah. Like post #2 said, they're probably just on the backburner. We'll have our day.

If they were going to get rid of them, why haven't they done it already? Why bother giving them a place in the 6E rulebook? Why bother keeping the minis in stock when they're just taking up room and could be melted down for quick cash (Sister Nisa nevar forget). My theory is that they're undergoing a redesign, or a redesign is on the schdule, and they're waiting for a chance to do a big update on them, which will of course make GW a gakload of money.

 Madcat87 wrote:
It's a shame they don't do anything about this, not even just a simple here's a box of ten plastic sisters to hold you over.

I just can't forget that one time in a GW store I saw a young teenage girl come in with her parents all excited about sisters of battle with her Witch Hunters codex ready only to find out what the state of the army is. Hell the guy serving them had to come ask me (a sisters player) on what's the deal with the army and the new codex. Guess how much money she spent in the store that day.


Damn, that's kinda sad. But yeah, even though they're likely due to get their day at some point, it's undeniable that GW's treatment of them has been arse. They are almost literally denying themselves free money by not putting the WD codex up for internet purchase. I've seen people theorise that this is because a new codex in the works, but it's still quite a gak thing to do regardless

I'd theorise that the lack of plastic/finecast Sisters could be due to the possible redesign. GW might not see much point in updating the material when they're just going to roll out new models anyway.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 23:18:12


Post by: Savageconvoy


They aren't dead. Just liquidated and turned into an armor wax to give the grey armor a better shine.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 23:31:37


Post by: -Loki-


 Madcat87 wrote:
It's a shame they don't do anything about this, not even just a simple here's a box of ten plastic sisters to hold you over.


Because GW don't do that. WG release kits for the reasons - first, they have a book to release them with - this is when things like redone core troop choices are released. Sisters don't have a book on the horizon. Second, as a wave release. Sisters haven't had a book recently enough to get a 'wave', which is generally released shortly after a book riding the releases popularity (though admittedly sometimes they get severely delayed, like the Tervigon release). Third, as hype, something they've been doing with Fantasy lately. A few of the new units coming in the book released in a White Dwarf update to get people excited. This is the reverse of a wave release, which rides the popularity of the initial release, these hype releases are there to get people thinking about the army again before the book hits.

As the Sisters box is a core troop choice (the only one they have), the only time GW is going to release it is alongside the codex. Expecting otherwise is simply silly.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 23:36:11


Post by: Psienesis


There have been rumors of new Sisters miniatures for at least 3 years now. At least. And that's only because that is as long as I can remember paying attention to such news. I'm sure that rumor has been floating around for quite a long time but, other than this "update" they've received, split over two issues of White Dwarf.... they've gotten nothing.

Even the Bloodtide thing isn't that bad, it's just terribly written. It could have been written in such a way that made their sacrifice noble, that demonstrated the lengths to which the Sisters are willing to go to ensure that the Will of the God-Emperor is carried out. That the author failed to do that is a failing of the author, not the faction (or even the Grey Knights, such an action is perfectly in keeping with them).

The argument of sales numbers not being sufficient to warrant an update is a circular argument. The sales figures aren't there because the product isn't there. If the product was there, on a level with the SM, the sales would probably be there as well, the Sisterhood is a fan-favorite faction. They're currently a niche army because they are one of the most expensive armies to field 2000 points of, as you're buying basic troops in packs of 3.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 23:44:16


Post by: HisDivineShadow


I've long been wanting a unified Inquisition dex.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 23:56:35


Post by: MrFlutterPie


 Psienesis wrote:
The argument of sales numbers not being sufficient to warrant an update is a circular argument. The sales figures aren't there because the product isn't there. If the product was there, on a level with the SM, the sales would probably be there as well, the Sisterhood is a fan-favorite faction. They're currently a niche army because they are one of the most expensive armies to field 2000 points of, as you're buying basic troops in packs of 3.


This.

Remember DE? They had poor sales so GW put less money into them. Sales continued to drop so GW took them off the shelves. Then GW actually updates the army with shiny new models decent rules and sales are up. Who would have thought abandoning a army would cause them to be even less popular? Same thing with Sisters. No plastics, no support, no real legal way of buying their current rules and not stocking them in stores have help made sure they do not make any money.

At the end of the day it's GW fault that sales are slow, that's what happens when you don't update the army in any shape way or form.

However,, I still hold hope for a DE like rival for Sisters.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/23 23:56:40


Post by: Arais


 Psienesis wrote:
There have been rumors of new Sisters miniatures for at least 3 years now. At least. And that's only because that is as long as I can remember paying attention to such news. I'm sure that rumor has been floating around for quite a long time but, other than this "update" they've received, split over two issues of White Dwarf.... they've gotten nothing....
....
The argument of sales numbers not being sufficient to warrant an update is a circular argument. The sales figures aren't there because the product isn't there. If the product was there, on a level with the SM, the sales would probably be there as well, the Sisterhood is a fan-favorite faction. They're currently a niche army because they are one of the most expensive armies to field 2000 points of, as you're buying basic troops in packs of 3.


Yeah, thats the thing. Now people here have been saying for a while that the 5E 'dex is a proven point that they are going to stick around for a while. But I remember a while back, I think it was in the 6E Rulebook, that the majority of the SoB are dead. Ive always taken this, along with the blatant disregard for them in general, as an indicator for what they plan to do with them. I mean, only time will tell like always, but I feel like gak when I have to tell my buddies that they dont even have a legal codex they can obtain, and their models cost more than the average house.

Also, while we're at it, what about the Sisters of Silence? I mean, it seems from the past that they were to be incorporated into some sort of Codex (Or get their own), how hard would it be to write up some stuff on them and plop them in a new Sisters Codex?


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 00:16:14


Post by: Troike


Arais wrote:
But I remember a while back, I think it was in the 6E Rulebook, that the majority of the SoB are dead.


What the gak. Does it actually say this? I doubt it actually says this. All of the fluff I've seen about their numbers places them in the millions.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 00:24:02


Post by: Psienesis


I've never heard anything about the majority of SoB being dead in current 40K time-lines. Sometimes, in reference to the faction's history, yes, there's not many "active" Sisters in service... but they always have a lot of girls coming out of the Schola Progenium to replace their losses. Give an Order Militant a century, and they'll be back to a few thousand women with bolter, flamer and melta at the ready for the God-Emperor.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 00:34:01


Post by: JWhex


The fact is no one outside of GW has a clue if the sisters will be dropped or redeive an updated codex in the future.

For the remainder of this edition you can play them for sure. I speculate that GW will not drop them. If they do get dropped I suppose you could always use the models for "counts as IG" squads, but that would be a sad finish to an interesting army.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 01:20:33


Post by: Evil Lamp 6


Considering their presence on the Allied Chart Matrix, I'm pretty sure that SoB are here to stay for at least the rest of 6th.

We see threads like this almost monthly (if not more often) but they all have the same thing to say. As was said above me, none of us actually know what GW is doing with Sisters. Hell, GW may not even know themselves which could be part of the reason for the lack of releases. Only time will tell.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 01:34:20


Post by: Waaaghpower


I think part of their problem is that they'll have to start from scratch with models, which is really expensive. New designs, casting, molds, kits... they habe nothing to start with. All the metal models would need converted to either resin or plastic, and most need new sculpts. With nothing useable to start with, it'll be a massive expense to create plastic new kits. And with our those, new sisters will never make money.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 01:39:37


Post by: Baronyu


Waaaghpower wrote:
I think part of their problem is that they'll have to start from scratch with models, which is really expensive. New designs, casting, molds, kits... they habe nothing to start with. All the metal models would need converted to either resin or plastic, and most need new sculpts. With nothing useable to start with, it'll be a massive expense to create plastic new kits. And with our those, new sisters will never make money.


I don't know, as others have said, the same could be said about DE revival... I can only say that if SoB aren't so ugly, it'd have been my first army rather than DE, I'd probably still make SoB my 3rd army if they renewed it, when I have time, and they haven't raised the price point to where myself and my group aren't comfortable with.

As for whether or not GW is in any position to do a major renewal as per DE(and also adding compulsory MC to SoB codex), well...


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 02:20:53


Post by: captain bloody fists


 Psienesis wrote:
I've never heard anything about the majority of SoB being dead in current 40K time-lines. Sometimes, in reference to the faction's history, yes, there's not many "active" Sisters in service... but they always have a lot of girls coming out of the Schola Progenium to replace their losses. Give an Order Militant a century, and they'll be back to a few thousand women with bolter, flamer and melta at the ready for the God-Emperor.


I suppose this is mostly true as there a mention of a Sister as a body guard for a Governess in Rynns World.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 02:26:25


Post by: Orktavius


Dark elder were pulled because the entire range was ugly (to the point even GW didn't want to sell it in stores) and had to be redone from the ground up. They were totally out of the stores for about 2 years before they got a shiny new codex and and metric ass ton of new cool models.

Currently, Sisters are in as bad a state as DE were, maybe not with being ugly models, but because the entire range is in metal, a medium GW prefers not to produce if possible. Yeah they are probably on the back burner for a bit while they update other more popular armies but I'm sure that soon enough sisters will get the DE treatment with a shiny new codex and tons of new models.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 03:20:06


Post by: BunkerBob


At my local store there are no less than 4 other people that want to play Sisters of Battle but cant due to sheer cost to field a 2k army. Heck I have been forming mine for the better part of a year now and I still am not done. Thats not just commitment but that is a masochist in training.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 04:00:29


Post by: BoomWolf


 Psienesis wrote:
I've never heard anything about the majority of SoB being dead in current 40K time-lines. Sometimes, in reference to the faction's history, yes, there's not many "active" Sisters in service... but they always have a lot of girls coming out of the Schola Progenium to replace their losses. Give an Order Militant a century, and they'll be back to a few thousand women with bolter, flamer and melta at the ready for the God-Emperor.



A century...a few thousand...

You seriously underestimation imperial requirement scales.

Heck, the recruitment rate here is IL is a few thousands every four months, and we have less people ten the number of PLANETS in the 40k imperium.


Even if the sisterhood was reduced to a mere 10000, they should be more then able to get back into the millions range within 3-4 years.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 06:40:25


Post by: dpal666


instead on "counts as" IG, they're perfect for PA bolter henchmen for a Coteaz list, although that gets expensive in points.

I'm currently sitting on 2500 pts worth, and love it every time I pull them out.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 06:57:40


Post by: DeffDred


Arais wrote:
Im one of the few people out there that play SoB (Or BT for that matter, theres a joke for you!) and as of right now, am curiously disgusted with the lack of updates or models with GW.

What's the joke? Saying that there are only a few BT players?

We had the '5th edition update', which was 3rd edition but the same thing but with units removed

By 3rd do you mean the BRB from that time period or the Witchhunter codex? The WD codex actually puts the Sisters at 4 sets of rules for them over the years. That's more than Tau and Necrons.

and no new plastic units for the army since its INCEPTION.

Since second edition? New rhino hull was plastic. They might not have gotten new plastics but they got a ton of new models.

A few friends of mine, really want to get into 40k, but they cant fathom paying 800+ dollars for pounds and pounds of metal models that dont even have their own codex.

They all want to play Sisters?

On top of that, the pure brutal, terrible fluff written about them recently (Hint: See Grey Knights) makes me so sick I want to throw up.

A few simple deaths to help the Grey Knights made your legs weak? Maybe the 40k universe is a little to intence for you.

Im thinking they are planning of either phasing out the SoB completely, or moving some units into another Grey Knights codex for 6E.

Nah.

Its a shame they are losing customers over this, I am pretty sure there have to be SOME SoB players (Or want to play) out there.

Losing customers? No they're losing people who play a seriously underpromoted army. Most Sisters players already own what they need and buy the rest from Ebay not GW.

Note: This post is mostly in jest.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 09:39:24


Post by: tgjensen


Seems to me like GW were never really able to properly keep up with all the factions, so some of the less popular armies get neglected for an edition or two (and yes, popularity is often correlated with the support they get, so it's a self-made problem). Orks got neglected between mid-3rd and late 4th edition, Chaos got neglected for a while too, and Tau, Dark Eldar and Necrons didn't get much love for a long while either. Black Templars and Sisters have had it worst, but at least it seems like GW have picked up the pace. How many more popular factions are in line for a new codex? Orks, SM, IG, Tyranids, probably Space Wolves and Blood Angels? At the current pace, that's two years, give or take. This edition has a handful years more in it before it's done, so that should leave time to give the Sisters and Black Templars some love too - provided the latter don't get folded into the regular Marine codex.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 09:46:02


Post by: BlaxicanX


One can only hope.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 09:54:46


Post by: Locrian


I would love to put together a SOB army if they were available and reasonable.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 10:54:37


Post by: tommse


I can´t even tell if i would like to play them as there is no codex you could browse through at your local store...


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 12:35:56


Post by: Kain


BlaxicanX wrote:
One can only hope.
You want them gone?


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 12:47:43


Post by: Lynata


BoomWolf wrote:You seriously underestimation imperial requirement scales.
Heck, the recruitment rate here is IL is a few thousands every four months, and we have less people ten the number of PLANETS in the 40k imperium.
Even if the sisterhood was reduced to a mere 10000, they should be more then able to get back into the millions range within 3-4 years.
Actually, he does not underestimate anything. I'm not sure where you got the "millions" from, but it isn't GW's books. In the studio material, they're more rare than the Space Marines - in part due to their rate of attrition (the six Greater Orders of the Battle Sisters bounce back and forth between 3.5k and 7k members on average), and in part because it's rare for a progena to meet the Sisterhood's high physical and psychological requirements. The Schola trains mostly Administratum scribes, with a smaller part to join military service or the Ecclesiarchy. And of those, the majority end up in the Arbites or as IG/Navy NCOs. Then there's the Commissars, and the Sororitas' non-militant Orders. Only the best get to join the 10k strong Storm Trooper regiment, or one of the Militant Orders of the Sisterhood. And every once in a while, somewhere a progena might even become a Temple Assassin or Inquisitor.

At least according to Codex fluff, anyways. Novels and stuff written by Black Library's freelancers tend to depict a lot of things a little different. And it's not as if they'd be "wrong" in doing so, as 40k background mostly has only interpretations, but not truths. But Psienesis certainly isn't wrong just because he seems to prefer what it says in GW's books.


As for the topic: There are rumours, apparently even statements from GW - and they did rework their webshop, make a new "Codex" and even released some articles on White Dwarf. But personally, I'm not holding up hope that there'll be more anytime soon. They just seem to have different priorities, I guess, and the Sisters don't really have anyone at the studio pushing their agenda right now, as they did back then with Mr. Hoare.
For what it's worth, their rarity makes their appearance on a game table truly special, and the metal minis are, I think, beautiful, with a nice weight in your hand feeling very much superior to that of some light, flimsy plastics, as much as the latter may be better for conversions (or for your wallet). They're basically a collector's army right now, akin to some of the stuff that Forgeworld has released, just that they've got an actual GW Codex and a place in the core rulebook.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 12:57:09


Post by: Kain


I wonder how the SoB players would react if when their codex does come out, it turns out that it's 7th edition daemons of chaos level broken with grey knights esque fluff.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 12:57:45


Post by: Thatguyhsagun


Well until the grey knights meet them, no.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 12:59:02


Post by: Kain


Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Well until the grey knights meet them, no.
The sisters and Eldar can form a whipping boy/girl's club with how frequently they get punked.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 14:40:13


Post by: Troike


 Lynata wrote:
In the studio material, they're more rare than the Space Marines

Looks like it might be suffering from some of GW's lack of focus on Sisters. Half of the main Orders are absent from the biggest heretic smackdown going, and only two lesser Orders showed up. Though it does note that more Imperial forces showed up later.

 Lynata wrote:
(the six Greater Orders of the Battle Sisters bounce back and forth between 3.5k and 7k members on average)

Source? Not asking in a "you're wrong" way, just interested to know.

 Kain wrote:
I wonder how the SoB players would react if when their codex does come out, it turns out that it's 7th edition daemons of chaos level broken with grey knights esque fluff.

I'll admit, I would like the fluff to an extent. Grey Knights level fluff would mean that they'd get a good, badass portrayal, even if it would be a little over the top in parts.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 14:52:55


Post by: pretre


Sisters are alive and well.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 14:59:58


Post by: curran12


Another thing to keep in mind, regarding the White Dwarf codex, is that the Blood Angels rocked the White Dwarf codex for 3 years before they got their own new one.

There's nothing greatly worrying here for me.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 15:20:06


Post by: andrewm9


 HisDivineShadow wrote:
I've long been wanting a unified Inquisition dex.


You got one already. It's called Codex:grey Knights. The Sisters do not belng and never have belonged with the Inquisition. Their mission often puts them towards working to the same goals, but they are nt part of the Inquisition any more than Imperial Guard working alongside them.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 15:23:08


Post by: Lynata


Troike wrote:Looks like it might be suffering from some of GW's lack of focus on Sisters. Half of the main Orders are absent from the biggest heretic smackdown going, and only two lesser Orders showed up. Though it does note that more Imperial forces showed up later.
GW most certainly does have a lack of focus, but that wouldn't explain why they keep them small even where they do mention them. No, it is in fact part of their theme, and can be seen across their entire presentation in GW's own material. Here is another example, the Third War for Armageddon.

I actually like this for two reasons:
- it's a clever "in-universe" excuse for why the Sisters don't show up as often in GW fluff .. they simply cannot be everywhere at once, at least not in force!
- it also lets them appear even more elite

Given their physical and psychological perks as well as the likely cost of their Astartes-grade equipment, it sounds at least reasonable to me that the Imperium may just not be capable of raising too many of them at once. And that's not even counting the "artificial" hurdles such as not every Imperial orphan getting into the Schola in the first place, so you've got a whole bunch of people who might be eligible but won't ever get into testing. Kind of like most Space Marine Chapters limiting their recruitment efforts on a single planet and then complaining that only a dozen aspirants seem useful or something like that.

Troike wrote:Source? Not asking in a "you're wrong" way, just interested to know.
2nd edition Codex SoB. It gives a detailed account of which of the Greater Orders was founded when, how many members they have, and even how many of them are trained as Seraphim. Generally an excellent resource for information on the Sisterhood's organisation, way more detailed than anything that came later. Excerpt:

Spoiler:
"Two and a half thousand years later, two more Orders were created by Deacis VI ( the Orders of the Bloody Rose and Sacred Rose) and the Convent buildings were extended to accommodate almost 15,000 warriors each. In recent years, the number of the Militant Orders' members has declined slightly and each Order now number between 3,000 and 4,000 Battle Sisters, of which perhaps 500-750 will be trained as Seraphim.These warriors are spread throughout the galaxy in various battle zones and on extended tours of duty. The size of an Order waxes and wanes irregularly, depending on the quality of recruits availble and battle losses. On occasion an Order may number no more than a few hundred warriors, all fighting the enemies of the Emperor while at other times it may reach a peak of six or seven thousand warriors, with much of the Order fighting in distant wars but still leaving a reserve of several thousand Battle Sisters and Seraphim that can be despatched if needed."
- 2E C:SoB

"There are six major Orders of Adepta Sororitas, the fighting strength of each numbering several thousand warriors, as well as many lesser sisterhoods comprised of around a hundred or so Battle Sisters."
- 5E Rulebook

[edit] My numbers were actually off a bit, a little higher than what the source states.

Troike wrote:
Kain wrote:I wonder how the SoB players would react if when their codex does come out, it turns out that it's 7th edition daemons of chaos level broken with grey knights esque fluff.
I'll admit, I would like the fluff to an extent. Grey Knights level fluff would mean that they'd get a good, badass portrayal, even if it would be a little over the top in parts.
Ouphh, I'd really prefer the happy medium of, say, IG. In fact, I was already happy to see the recent White Dwarf articles again pick up on the old "Sisters get to kill off Marine Chapters" fluff.
On the other hand, I know I couldn't resist checking up on the outrage from certain groups if it'd be cranked up to GW or SW levels.

On a sidenote, since that incident with the Bloodtide was mentioned ... I actually have no problem with this at all, and can't really "get" the criticism. All that this bit of fluff shows is two things:
- the SoB have an incredible resistance against corruption (which is one of the army's central themes, and fits to other cool stories such as this one), so much so that even the GK may occasionally depend on them
- the GK are extremely pragmatic, so much so that they don't hesitate to kill their allies if they judge this to be necessary for the greater good (which also fits to the whole Inquisition stuff)


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 15:38:24


Post by: Insane Smile


 Lobukia wrote:
Who are the Sisters if Battle?

You just made my day.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 16:26:01


Post by: Skriker


 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
Same thread, different day.
SoB don't get updated because they don't generate enough sales to justify it. Simple as. You're disgusted, big deal. GW is a business, they make business decisions. They don't care if you're disgusted by them choosing not to make changes to their own product, at great personal cost themselves, just to make the minority of their fan base happy.


Same self fulfilling prophecy too: No changes, means no newly generated interest. Same old models means no changes in player's desire to buy them. No investment no reward. Simple as.

I do agree that GW generally doesn't care about making customers happy ultimately, but acting as if it is because of "sound" business decisions is ludicrous. They released an army, gave it next to zero support and it fell flat on its face as should have been expected and they act like it is the fault of their players. They already *failed* in the business decisions with the SoB. Heck Tau weren't very popular either of late with their old, old codex, but give them a fancy new codex, a spit shine and some cool new models and they can't keep the things in stock most places. Same thing could happen with SoB with some real investment of time and energy on them. Instead GW does nothing...

Skriker


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 16:44:27


Post by: gpfunk


 Lynata wrote:
On a sidenote, since that incident with the Bloodtide was mentioned ... I actually have no problem with this at all, and can't really "get" the criticism. All that this bit of fluff shows is two things:
- the SoB have an incredible resistance against corruption (which is one of the army's central themes, and fits to other cool stories such as this one), so much so that even the GK may occasionally depend on them
- the GK are extremely pragmatic, so much so that they don't hesitate to kill their allies if they judge this to be necessary for the greater good (which also fits to the whole Inquisition stuff)
God please take all my Exalts. People who complain about that fluff seem to ignore the other pieces in the codex where they hunt down and kill entire regiments of poor Imperial Guardsmen just for knowing that they exist. Don't know why the Sisters would get any special treatment in the face of overwhelming pragmatism.

I'd love decent plastic sculpts for the basic troops. I could roll them into my Inquisitorial Retinues. Heck, it'd just be nice to have some normal, female armored bodies to work with for conversions rather than having to go third party.

I was incredibly sad to see the SoB shoehorned into a white dwarf release, I'd gotten excited to see if there were any new models that would be released. Alas. That said, GW hasn't removed them from their website, so they must not be looking to can them any time soon.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 16:46:03


Post by: pretre


 gpfunk wrote:
God please take all my Exalts.
Seconded. Lynata's SOB fluff posts are how I wish I could be if I was patient and less sarcastic.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 16:46:11


Post by: Flying Toaster


 pretre wrote:
Sisters are alive and well.


This is true in my local meta. People just think of them dead because of a lack of codex and the recent white dwarf update that some think was more insulting than helpful.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 17:12:12


Post by: Troike


 Lynata wrote:
- it also lets them appear even more elite

Hmm. Good point, didn't think of it like that.

Now if only their fluff reflected that.

 Lynata wrote:
On a sidenote, since that incident with the Bloodtide was mentioned ... I actually have no problem with this at all, and can't really "get" the criticism. All that this bit of fluff shows is two things:
- the SoB have an incredible resistance against corruption (which is one of the army's central themes, and fits to other cool stories such as this one), so much so that even the GK may occasionally depend on them
- the GK are extremely pragmatic, so much so that they don't hesitate to kill their allies if they judge this to be necessary for the greater good (which also fits to the whole Inquisition stuff)

I think that a lot of people have a problem with it conflicting with how the Grey Knights are fluffed as being utterly incorruptible in regards to daemonic influence. It makes the slaughter of the Sisters seem a bit pointless.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 18:14:49


Post by: pretre


Influence is different than physical corruption.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 18:25:18


Post by: Troike


 pretre wrote:
Influence is different than physical corruption.

Oh? I thought that the bloodtide was a warp-based thing? As in, it worked on a psychic level.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 18:53:46


Post by: Lynata


Troike wrote:Now if only their fluff reflected that.
It does - it all just depends on what sources you're looking at!

I mean, at one point GW's website flat out said that Battle Sisters are equals to the Space Marines. That's a fairly huge thing to say about (semi-)normal humans.
I think the biggest problem is that their GW fluff is pretty much all over the place and hard to find, whereas the most popular and known portrayals tend to come from Black Library novels or outsourced RPGs that often depict them in a somewhat weaker or diluted fashion. Of course every interpretation is just as valid as another, but when some are just more widespread than others, it's no wonder that the Sisters' public perception is shifted in one direction more than the other. Even SoB fans may "suffer" from this simply because they've never heard of other sources such as the Liber Sororitas, their Armageddon 3 articles, or the Anti-Astartes Strike Force list.

Troike wrote:I think that a lot of people have a problem with it conflicting with how the Grey Knights are fluffed as being utterly incorruptible in regards to daemonic influence. It makes the slaughter of the Sisters seem a bit pointless.
Yeah, I suppose that's true - but to me this seems like an issue of perception. The assumption that GKs are incorruptible "just because". However, what if what makes the Grey Knights incorruptible are tricks like these? We've never been told differently, and that's how I ultimately justified it to myself, anyways. Most of the time, the GK's special genetic material and indoctrination may suffice to keep the corruption at bay, but in some cases, such as it was with the Bloodtide, they'd just have to ... well, add a bit more protection.

Troike wrote:Oh? I thought that the bloodtide was a warp-based thing? As in, it worked on a psychic level.
I've interpreted it as both. Warp-corruption always has to do with psychic energy, yet the Bloodtide was arguably also a physical (metaphysical?) manifestation ("[...] a tide of gore corrupting everything and anyone it touches"). I would assume that most Nurgle-spawned plagues work on the same level, with physical contact being either a necessary catalyst or to serve as a "boost" to a latent Warp-powered mutation of the body.

If blood somehow carries a fraction of the psychic essence of their owner (which may be why it is often used as paraphernalia in Chaos rituals), the Sisters' mental purity (see the story about Sister Anastasia linked above, as well as the Sisters' 3E Codex "Shield of Faith" negating psychic effects cast upon them) may well have it work like some sort of "antidote" that can, as it seems, perhaps even be harnessed. In their new Codex, the Grey Knights very much come across as sort of Anti-Cultists using strange Warp rituals to fight Chaos.
That being said, the internet is also prone to exaggeration, and a lot of things - including the Bloodtide incident - are at times presented in ways that does not actually reflect the original wording. Just look at how often you see someone proclaiming that "X is canon", in spite of several GW designers and BL authors saying that this isn't how the franchise works.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 19:05:08


Post by: gravitywell


Yes, the tyranid ate all of their homeworlds.



Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 19:33:52


Post by: Psienesis


The Grey Knights are incorruptible because they possess the knowledge of the blackest sorceries that make them so... and are entirely unafraid to practice such sorceries.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 21:05:48


Post by: Spetulhu


 Psienesis wrote:
The Grey Knights are incorruptible because they possess the knowledge of the blackest sorceries that make them so... and are entirely unafraid to practice such sorceries.


Fight fire with fire? Figures...

As for SoB I'm the only one in my little circle that has any, and I've not heard of anyone fielding them in the larger group around us (this-and-that guy's old gaming mates etc). But I'm sure a real Codex and new models would make them popular, just like the Dark Eldar and Necrons suddenly became the new sliced bread. And that was after years of being obscure armies with special rules no one knew and units no one had heard of.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 22:01:54


Post by: Ovion


Sisters aren't dead, that's for sure.
I know a few people that have them, I'm looking to start a Repentia based force when I'm not broke anymore...


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 22:23:31


Post by: Kain


 Troike wrote:
 Lynata wrote:
In the studio material, they're more rare than the Space Marines

Looks like it might be suffering from some of GW's lack of focus on Sisters. Half of the main Orders are absent from the biggest heretic smackdown going, and only two lesser Orders showed up. Though it does note that more Imperial forces showed up later.

 Lynata wrote:
(the six Greater Orders of the Battle Sisters bounce back and forth between 3.5k and 7k members on average)

Source? Not asking in a "you're wrong" way, just interested to know.

 Kain wrote:
I wonder how the SoB players would react if when their codex does come out, it turns out that it's 7th edition daemons of chaos level broken with grey knights esque fluff.

I'll admit, I would like the fluff to an extent. Grey Knights level fluff would mean that they'd get a good, badass portrayal, even if it would be a little over the top in parts.

Except now you get a completely new character out of the Blue with Draigo level fluff, let's say beating Angron and all thirteen of his bloodthirster guard singlehandedly and then kicking Khorne's teeth out.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 22:42:55


Post by: JWhex


One problem that the sisters face as a poor selling army is not only competition for resources from popular 40k armies but also competition for development time and resources from the more popular fantasy armies.

No current plastic models must also be a huge drawback.

Even the failure of finecast may be playing into the mix as well. It is very clear that finecast did not work out at all like GW planned. It did not really turn out to be an alternative to metal that could be used broadly across their model range. This is clear because they have mostly stopped converting older models to finecast even though there are quite a few that remain metal other than the sisters.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 23:10:20


Post by: Melissia


No, Sisters aren't dead. But GW certainly doesn't really seem to know what to do with them.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/24 23:53:08


Post by: Troike


gravitywell wrote:
Yes, the tyranid ate all of their homeworlds.


The 'Nids ate Terra? Damn.

 Kain wrote:
 Troike wrote:
 Lynata wrote:
In the studio material, they're more rare than the Space Marines

Looks like it might be suffering from some of GW's lack of focus on Sisters. Half of the main Orders are absent from the biggest heretic smackdown going, and only two lesser Orders showed up. Though it does note that more Imperial forces showed up later.

 Lynata wrote:
(the six Greater Orders of the Battle Sisters bounce back and forth between 3.5k and 7k members on average)

Source? Not asking in a "you're wrong" way, just interested to know.

 Kain wrote:
I wonder how the SoB players would react if when their codex does come out, it turns out that it's 7th edition daemons of chaos level broken with grey knights esque fluff.

I'll admit, I would like the fluff to an extent. Grey Knights level fluff would mean that they'd get a good, badass portrayal, even if it would be a little over the top in parts.

Except now you get a completely new character out of the Blue with Draigo level fluff, let's say beating Angron and all thirteen of his bloodthirster guard singlehandedly and then kicking Khorne's teeth out.

Well if we're going that far we may as well wish for something really over the top, like fluff where the Sisters defeat a Daemon invasion by making some Grey Knights cry and then somehow using the tears to win. It'll be called the teartide.

But nah. Something that wasn't too over the top would be preferable.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 00:19:48


Post by: Gomericus


its easy

Step one,write a real codex,

step two create box sets of plastic sisters squads with enough options to create retributers or squads
plastic sera's
a plastic or finecast hg figure
a new saint figure
tanks are fine,

step three sell them.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 00:40:37


Post by: Psienesis


That would do it, really. And, in fact, you wouldn't need to have terribly many variations on the Troop choices, just bits in a box that can be used for Battle Sisters, Retributor, Domina, and Celestian squads, with additional "bitz kits" sold if you want to convert an entire box of Battle Sisters into Retributors (for example). Being that all of these Troop choices follow a standard pattern (heh), that of a woman in power armor, equipped with either standard bolter, heavy weapon or assault weapons.

Then you have a box for Seraphim (the jump-packs are going to suggest more dynamic poses for the figs, imitating jump-flight capability) and a box for Sisters Repentia, as they don't pack the PA and carry CCW exclusively.

Then you have your individual HQs, ICs and so forth all done as Finecast. Tanks and such, too, I suppose, though you could have a Citadel version for one price and then a fancy FC or FW version if you want to spend the cash on it.

So we end up with... 3 boxes of plastic figs, 10 Sisters per, support bitz kits, and then individual ICs, HQs and vehicles.

Toss in a flier and a dedicated AA tank, print an actual Codex: Sisters of Battle, and viola, license to print money.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 00:48:12


Post by: Ovion


Hell, put Jump Packs and twin-pistols in the box, and you could cover every Sisters infantry model in the current book outside of Repentia in 1 box.
Even if it charges £20 for a box of 5, with options for buidling 4-5 different squads out of it like the GK kit, with one of each special / heavy weapon option, jump packs, 1 of each power weapon and an Eviscerator, I'd be fine with that - it's only £2 more than sisters are now... but in plastic and with proper options!


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 09:32:06


Post by: Psienesis


Yeah, you could do that, I am just kinda fond of the current "jump" poses that the Seraphim figs have now... it'd look wonky on any other model in the army, of course...


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 09:56:16


Post by: Shandara


 Psienesis wrote:
Yeah, you could do that, I am just kinda fond of the current "jump" poses that the Seraphim figs have now... it'd look wonky on any other model in the army, of course...


I also love them because they are the only ones that easy to convert, since the foot-slogging all have the cloak/skirt fusing the legs/arms together.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 10:35:39


Post by: Asmodai Asmodean


 dpal666 wrote:
instead on "counts as" IG, they're perfect for PA bolter henchmen for a Coteaz list, although that gets expensive in points.

I'm currently sitting on 2500 pts worth, and love it every time I pull them out.


Ugh cringe. Any true sisters player would balk at the relegation of their girls to Henchmen status.

I've always thought a weakness in the Sisters codex was the sheer lack of variation in their line: Troops: Rhino-sisters. HS? Three Excorcists. HQ? Saint Celestine and Jump pack Canoness (Jacobus is de rigeur now, but he's a man.)
FS? as many Seraphim as you can shake a stick at. We need to get Penitent engines in and some sort of AV14 massive Church Lander you see in all the art.

So dying for a new SoB codex right now, Acts of Faith were the most creative thing to happen to 40k once upon a time.



Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 10:44:52


Post by: Ovion


Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
 dpal666 wrote:
instead on "counts as" IG, they're perfect for PA bolter henchmen for a Coteaz list, although that gets expensive in points.

I'm currently sitting on 2500 pts worth, and love it every time I pull them out.


Ugh cringe. Any true sisters player would balk at the relegation of their girls to Henchmen status.

I've always thought a weakness in the Sisters codex was the sheer lack of variation in their line: Troops: Rhino-sisters. HS? Three Excorcists. HQ? Saint Celestine and Jump pack Canoness (Jacobus is de rigeur now, but he's a man.)
FS? as many Seraphim as you can shake a stick at. We need to get Penitent engines in and some sort of AV14 massive Church Lander you see in all the art.

So dying for a new SoB codex right now, Acts of Faith were the most creative thing to happen to 40k once upon a time.
Yeah, they're a perfectly viable army all of their own. Just using them as henchmen seems silly tbh.

Also - there can be some variation, my Sisters army will boast 30 Repentia and 9 Penitent Engines!


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 11:03:47


Post by: Arais


 Ovion wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
 dpal666 wrote:
instead on "counts as" IG, they're perfect for PA bolter henchmen for a Coteaz list, although that gets expensive in points.

I'm currently sitting on 2500 pts worth, and love it every time I pull them out.

So dying for a new SoB codex right now, Acts of Faith were the most creative thing to happen to 40k once upon a time.
Yeah, they're a perfectly viable army all of their own. Just using them as henchmen seems silly tbh.

Also - there can be some variation, my Sisters army will boast 30 Repentia and 9 Penitent Engines!


Good luck with that, that'll cost you what, 500? The mere fact that we are seeing Eldar releases (That new friggin half a Titan for gods sake), Tau releases (They WERE a 4th edition codex, but come on, look at Black Templar!) among others first (And the rumors of a new SM codex) just blows my mind. I mean, they redid the Tau, as someone said here, and they sold like HOTCAKES, I mean come on! They sold out everywhere! I feel that Sisters are REALLY unique in more ways than the fact theyre just women. They are, (Considering they bring back FAITH) a vastly different army in their playstyle, no matter how much they can butcher them and their fanbase (WARD!!!). If they put some time into it, JUST A LITTLE, Im pretty sure from a business standpoint they could make some SERIOUS cash.

In any case, Ill hold onto my blind faith that they will do something with the SOMEday, maybe not in this edition, but in 7th or 8th.





Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 11:23:27


Post by: Asmodai Asmodean


I was hoping for a Sisters release this year but we're probably looking at mid 2014.



Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 11:50:14


Post by: Ovion


My full planned collection, atm, would cost roughly £650-700 (roughly US$1000) new from GW :(
Spoiler:
Celestine,
Jacobus,
27 Repentia + 3 Mistress of Repentence,
15 Battle Sisters, 2 Superiors, 4 w/ Special / Heavy Weapons,
2 Immolator,
5 Seraphim,
9 Penitent Engine,
4 Heavy Bolter Retributors, 1 Retributor Superior,
1 Exorcist
Avenger Strike Fighter(s)?

But yes, by rights, Sisters should get ome love in 2014.
The last codex (yes it was in White Dwarf, yes it isn't available normally, yes it was handled terribly, but it's still an actual codex.) was in 2011, and Blood Angels got their full book 3 years after... So here's hoping!


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 12:42:03


Post by: Pouncey


 gpfunk wrote:
 Lynata wrote:
On a sidenote, since that incident with the Bloodtide was mentioned ... I actually have no problem with this at all, and can't really "get" the criticism. All that this bit of fluff shows is two things:
- the SoB have an incredible resistance against corruption (which is one of the army's central themes, and fits to other cool stories such as this one), so much so that even the GK may occasionally depend on them
- the GK are extremely pragmatic, so much so that they don't hesitate to kill their allies if they judge this to be necessary for the greater good (which also fits to the whole Inquisition stuff)
God please take all my Exalts. People who complain about that fluff seem to ignore the other pieces in the codex where they hunt down and kill entire regiments of poor Imperial Guardsmen just for knowing that they exist. Don't know why the Sisters would get any special treatment in the face of overwhelming pragmatism.

I'd love decent plastic sculpts for the basic troops. I could roll them into my Inquisitorial Retinues. Heck, it'd just be nice to have some normal, female armored bodies to work with for conversions rather than having to go third party.

I was incredibly sad to see the SoB shoehorned into a white dwarf release, I'd gotten excited to see if there were any new models that would be released. Alas. That said, GW hasn't removed them from their website, so they must not be looking to can them any time soon.


To be honest, I used to be one of those people who was overly upset at that piece of fluff. As in, so overly upset that I completely mutilated my nicely-painted metal Grey Knight Terminator I've had since 2005. Luckily, someone - probably one of the fine people in this thread - took the time to explain it to me in detail.

It didn't help that the first time I encountered that piece of fluff was in a thread complaining about it on Dakka, where people used overly violent and brutal imagery words to describe it. And then I never did bother to actually go and read it, even after I started a GK army a number of months later. Still haven't read it.

But yes, that piece of fluff makes a lot more sense to me now than it did when all I could picture was a bunch of GKs shredding Sisters of Battle to harvest their blood. That kind of stuff makes me sick to my stomach, despite the fact that one time, when playing Starcraft II, what I did as Terran VS Zerg on a money map, was I massed infantry in the middle, then asked my Zerg opponent to send in his assault force. I watched, smiling and laughing, as the banelings and other units caused horrific waves of green and red gore to explode through my formation. I'm actually smiling while thinking about it right now. But because all those Marines and Marauders or whatever were male, I don't feel ill about it. I'm weird that way. : D

On a more pleasant topic, I haven't bought any Sisters of Battle stuff since I got my Exorcist a couple of years ago. There's just nothing left that I would use but don't have. I only play smallish games - 1,000 to 1,250 points or so - so going out and expanding my army to Apocalypse type levels is pointless. I have enough Battle Sisters to cover my needs, enough special and heavy weapons to field all the units I want to, I have 2 Canonesses with different loadouts should I ever want to use one in place of Celestine, I have Celestine, I have a Uriah-bomb unit, I have two Immolators that can be swapped between Exorcists, Immolators, and Rhinos by using different turrets (I use the Whirlwind turret with an Immolator chassis as an Exorcist sometimes, since I'm afraid of dropping my Exorcist for fear it'll shatter into dozens of pieces when it hits the floor), I have Seraphim, I have Repentia, I have a pair of Hospitallers, I have Simulacrums, I have a pair of Penitent Engines... Just about the only things I don't have are some specific loadouts for Superiors and Arco-flagellants.

So really, the only reason I'd get new models is if there are new units that come out with a new Codex, if new models come out that look better, or if plastic Sisters models are released - which I'd use to make furry and scaly Sororitas! : D


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 12:49:56


Post by: Kain


Also, some honest tanks, I remember when the Immolator was considered one of the best tanks, and then Cruddace touched it and did to it what he did to my poor Carnifexes.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 13:47:10


Post by: gpfunk


 Pouncey wrote:
To be honest, I used to be one of those people who was overly upset at that piece of fluff. As in, so overly upset that I completely mutilated my nicely-painted metal Grey Knight Terminator I've had since 2005. Luckily, someone - probably one of the fine people in this thread - took the time to explain it to me in detail.

It didn't help that the first time I encountered that piece of fluff was in a thread complaining about it on Dakka, where people used overly violent and brutal imagery words to describe it. And then I never did bother to actually go and read it, even after I started a GK army a number of months later. Still haven't read it.

But yes, that piece of fluff makes a lot more sense to me now than it did when all I could picture was a bunch of GKs shredding Sisters of Battle to harvest their blood. That kind of stuff makes me sick to my stomach.

That's often the case with the internet. I read over that bit of fluff many a time to try and fully comprehend what people were finding so abhorrent about it. If they'd read it they would've known the context in which the act was committed. I saw it more as a noble sacrifice on behalf of the sisters. I don't know if they recognized the warriors stemming the daemon tide specifically as the Grey Knights, but they certainly recognized them as the best hope to fight whatever horrors were at the center of the maelstrom. It also speaks to the purity of the Sisters, that they were so pure the Grey Knights called upon them to protect them from the raw fury of the warp.

I see it as a bit of tragic beauty. But then again, it's just one perspective.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 13:52:13


Post by: Kain


 gpfunk wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
To be honest, I used to be one of those people who was overly upset at that piece of fluff. As in, so overly upset that I completely mutilated my nicely-painted metal Grey Knight Terminator I've had since 2005. Luckily, someone - probably one of the fine people in this thread - took the time to explain it to me in detail.

It didn't help that the first time I encountered that piece of fluff was in a thread complaining about it on Dakka, where people used overly violent and brutal imagery words to describe it. And then I never did bother to actually go and read it, even after I started a GK army a number of months later. Still haven't read it.

But yes, that piece of fluff makes a lot more sense to me now than it did when all I could picture was a bunch of GKs shredding Sisters of Battle to harvest their blood. That kind of stuff makes me sick to my stomach.

That's often the case with the internet. I read over that bit of fluff many a time to try and fully comprehend what people were finding so abhorrent about it. If they'd read it they would've known the context in which the act was committed. I saw it more as a noble sacrifice on behalf of the sisters. I don't know if they recognized the warriors stemming the daemon tide specifically as the Grey Knights, but they certainly recognized them as the best hope to fight whatever horrors were at the center of the maelstrom. It also speaks to the purity of the Sisters, that they were so pure the Grey Knights called upon them to protect them from the raw fury of the warp.

I see it as a bit of tragic beauty. But then again, it's just one perspective.

You're ascribing way too much talent to Matt Ward's abilities as a writer there. It would be a better interpretation, but it's not one that he as a writer has shown the talent to create.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:02:04


Post by: gpfunk


 Kain wrote:

You're ascribing way too much talent to Matt Ward's abilities as a writer there. It would be a better interpretation, but it's not one that he as a writer has shown the talent to create.
Well, it's one that I would like to rewrite personally.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:08:57


Post by: Kain


 gpfunk wrote:
 Kain wrote:

You're ascribing way too much talent to Matt Ward's abilities as a writer there. It would be a better interpretation, but it's not one that he as a writer has shown the talent to create.
Well, it's one that I would like to rewrite personally.
Honestly it's probably "Look how awesome the knights are!"

Also this guy wrote a single Chaos Dreadnought slaughtering it's way through a sister's of battle world, meltas, lascannons, and even a living saint giving up her powers failed to stop it. But one marine throwing a hammer destroyed it.

Once.



Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:11:00


Post by: gpfunk


 Kain wrote:
 gpfunk wrote:
 Kain wrote:

You're ascribing way too much talent to Matt Ward's abilities as a writer there. It would be a better interpretation, but it's not one that he as a writer has shown the talent to create.
Well, it's one that I would like to rewrite personally.
Honestly it's probably "Look how awesome the knights are!"

Also this guy wrote a single Chaos Dreadnought slaughtering it's way through a sister's of battle world, meltas, lascannons, and even a living saint giving up her powers failed to stop it. But one marine throwing a hammer destroyed it.

Once.


Most warhammer fluff is over the top. I personally don't find this one instance any more egregious than the next.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:26:47


Post by: Kain


 gpfunk wrote:
 Kain wrote:
 gpfunk wrote:
 Kain wrote:

You're ascribing way too much talent to Matt Ward's abilities as a writer there. It would be a better interpretation, but it's not one that he as a writer has shown the talent to create.
Well, it's one that I would like to rewrite personally.
Honestly it's probably "Look how awesome the knights are!"

Also this guy wrote a single Chaos Dreadnought slaughtering it's way through a sister's of battle world, meltas, lascannons, and even a living saint giving up her powers failed to stop it. But one marine throwing a hammer destroyed it.

Once.


Most warhammer fluff is over the top. I personally don't find this one instance any more egregious than the next.

It's effectively insulting the combat capacity of an entire order of the Sisters.

It says that one order in it's entirety is less capable than one single space marine.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:31:18


Post by: gpfunk


 Kain wrote:
It's effectively insulting the combat capacity of an entire order of the Sisters.

It says that one order in it's entirety is less capable than one single space marine.
The Eldar were effectively insulted in about every codex for a long period of time. You had Eldar Avatars turned into common whipping boys by nearly every faction. Sisters aren't the only ones getting picked on.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:40:40


Post by: Kain


 gpfunk wrote:
 Kain wrote:
It's effectively insulting the combat capacity of an entire order of the Sisters.

It says that one order in it's entirety is less capable than one single space marine.
The Eldar were effectively insulted in about every codex for a long period of time. You had Eldar Avatars turned into common whipping boys by nearly every faction. Sisters aren't the only ones getting picked on.

Hence why I suggested that the Eldar and Sisters of battle form a club, the Tyranids can join too since they lose most of the battles in their own codex.

And note that in said story, written by ward, the Sisters not only didn't stop it, but they did absolutely no damage.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:45:06


Post by: Satan's Little Helper


In my 4 years of 40k I've only ever met 1 man that said he had a sisters army.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:45:47


Post by: Furyou Miko


HisDivineShadow wrote:I've long been wanting a unified Inquisition dex.


How is that in any way relevant to the conversation?
dpal666 wrote:instead on "counts as" IG, they're perfect for PA bolter henchmen for a Coteaz list, although that gets expensive in points.

I'm currently sitting on 2500 pts worth, and love it every time I pull them out.


Ooor... you could use them as Sisters and actually win.

pretre wrote:
 gpfunk wrote:
God please take all my Exalts.
Seconded. Lynata's SOB fluff posts are how I wish I could be if I was patient and less sarcastic.


Just.. yeah. Thirded.

Kain wrote:[
You're ascribing way too much talent to Matt Ward's abilities as a writer there. It would be a better interpretation, but it's not one that he as a writer has shown the talent to create.


He just needs practice. >> The actual piece of fluff is what, three lines long? It's literally "The first thing the Grey Knights do when they arrive is turn their blades on the surviving Sisters in order to anoint their armour with the blood as a ward against the Bloodtide." That's it.

Kain wrote:
 gpfunk wrote:
 Kain wrote:
 gpfunk wrote:
 Kain wrote:

You're ascribing way too much talent to Matt Ward's abilities as a writer there. It would be a better interpretation, but it's not one that he as a writer has shown the talent to create.
Well, it's one that I would like to rewrite personally.
Honestly it's probably "Look how awesome the knights are!"

Also this guy wrote a single Chaos Dreadnought slaughtering it's way through a sister's of battle world, meltas, lascannons, and even a living saint giving up her powers failed to stop it. But one marine throwing a hammer destroyed it.

Once.


Most warhammer fluff is over the top. I personally don't find this one instance any more egregious than the next.

It's effectively insulting the combat capacity of an entire order of the Sisters.

It says that one order in it's entirety is less capable than one single space marine.


Heck, I don't think you go far enough. It's basically saying that an Order in its entirety, including a Living Saint is less capable than one Tanith scout with a lasgun.

Personally, I believe that said dreadnought was infact some kind of super-daemon, and the hammer just took off the last hull point after the Sisters stripped it of the other 3000.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:50:49


Post by: Kain


 Furyou Miko wrote:


Heck, I don't think you go far enough. It's basically saying that an Order in its entirety, including a Living Saint is less capable than one Tanith scout with a lasgun.

Personally, I believe that said dreadnought was infact some kind of super-daemon, and the hammer just took off the last hull point after the Sisters stripped it of the other 3000.

Apparently Abnett thinks that Chaos Dreadnoughts are a dime a dozen asset made of tin foil.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:52:37


Post by: Furyou Miko


lol, true. There's the one in the Eisenhorn audiobook that gets taken out by a krak grenade and a force sword, too.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 14:59:42


Post by: Scott-S6


Arais wrote:
and no new plastic units for the army since its INCEPTION.

Except for the Immolator which was originally a metal/plastic kit.

They haven't had an update since 3rd, but to say they've never had an update is just flat-out wrong (released in 2nd edition, remember).


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 15:00:28


Post by: Kain


 Furyou Miko wrote:
lol, true. There's the one in the Eisenhorn audiobook that gets taken out by a krak grenade and a force sword, too.

Read the Word Bearers trilogy if you want a badass chaos Dreadnought. The Warmonger is a rockingly awesome guy. Shame about his eventual fate.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 15:10:58


Post by: Azenine


.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 15:20:19


Post by: dpal666


 Furyou Miko wrote:


dpal666 wrote:instead on "counts as" IG, they're perfect for PA bolter henchmen for a Coteaz list, although that gets expensive in points.

I'm currently sitting on 2500 pts worth, and love it every time I pull them out.


Ooor... you could use them as Sisters and actually win.

[


I do use SoB as a stand alone, when I want larger battles, they become henchmen, as I don't enjoy the ally thing. Combining them, I can do 8k battles as a GK army.

Sisters just don't scale up very well IME, <2K they're great, there's no doubt about it, above 2K is another matter.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 22:06:45


Post by: pretre


Double force org at 2k makes sisters plenty viable.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/25 22:57:21


Post by: andrewm9


 pretre wrote:
Double force org at 2k makes sisters plenty viable.


I always feel that paying 1/4 my points for troops only with no upgrades at 2000 is the biggest hurdle to making a good 2000 point double force org list.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/26 03:27:02


Post by: Pouncey


 dpal666 wrote:
 Furyou Miko wrote:


dpal666 wrote:instead on "counts as" IG, they're perfect for PA bolter henchmen for a Coteaz list, although that gets expensive in points.

I'm currently sitting on 2500 pts worth, and love it every time I pull them out.


Ooor... you could use them as Sisters and actually win.

[


I do use SoB as a stand alone, when I want larger battles, they become henchmen, as I don't enjoy the ally thing. Combining them, I can do 8k battles as a GK army.

Sisters just don't scale up very well IME, <2K they're great, there's no doubt about it, above 2K is another matter.


I ally mine with my custom Marine chapter. Actually, they're not so much a chapter as they are a group of renegade Chaos Marines. Renegade against Chaos, I mean. And my Sisters aren't so much an Order as they are- You know what, pretty much every 40k army I have that I had fluff written for is some sort of renegade, which is what happens when that fluff revolves around an ongoing series of RP that involves a mix of WH40k, Warcraft, Starcraft, and Star Trek stuff. And other stuff too. I'm pretty sure that at this point in those RPs, they all live on a futuristic united Azeroth that's hurtling through space using massive Warp drives to escape from the Imperium while simultaneously trying to recover any of the troops they tithed to the Imperium before rebelling - I don't think they've figured out that eventually the Imperium's going to order those regiments exterminated - while the Zerg sometimes make conjugal visits. And I wish I was making any of that up... I really, really do. Oh, also, there's furries.

Mostly I get my butt handed to me by my mom's Orks. One time, I had a single Scout with a Sniper Rifle, and Saint Celestine, against 10 Lootas, a Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun, a mob of Boyz, and 2 Killa Kanz by the end of the game. That Scout made a veritable gakload of 2+ cover saves from behind his defence line... Pretty much everything on the board was shooting at him for 2-3 turns. Personally, I blame my frequent losses on the additional mandatory cost of an extra HQ and Troops choice, but it's entirely possible I just make craptacular roster choices with the 300-400 points or so I have left after paying for the mandatory choices and their typical upgrades in a 1,000 point list.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/26 04:07:56


Post by: JWhex


There are two things that are troubling about the way GW is handling the sisters aside from the delayed update

1 The WD article is not available as a pdf. The Blood Angel WD codex was made available a few months after it was published

2 GW looks to be completely out of the metal miniature business now and they are no longer transfering old sculpts to finecast

This leads me to believe that they are not making the sister pdf available because they dont want to generate interest in a line they have no intention of supporting even by making additional stock of existing models.

I would not be surprised at all that once the existing stocks are sold that they will not replenish them and that they are just winding down the current models. This will leave the sisters in even more of a precarious state when it happens. When has GW had an army not supported by an available codex or range of models?


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/26 14:00:41


Post by: Furyou Miko


While they were working on the Dark Eldar overhaul, I believe Dark Eldar were completely unavailable for about two years.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/26 14:11:50


Post by: andrewm9


 Furyou Miko wrote:
While they were working on the Dark Eldar overhaul, I believe Dark Eldar were completely unavailable for about two years.


They were direct only just like Sisters are right now


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/26 15:17:02


Post by: Shandara


andrewm9 wrote:
 Furyou Miko wrote:
While they were working on the Dark Eldar overhaul, I believe Dark Eldar were completely unavailable for about two years.


They were direct only just like Sisters are right now


Still, none of the sister models is unavailable right now. And they are still all metal. Either they have enough stocks of everything or they cast it up on the spot when they get an order. Who knows. When I bought my repentia (2 squads) I first got a mail they were out of stock, but they still shipped em a few days later.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/26 16:16:14


Post by: Spetulhu


 Shandara wrote:
Still, none of the sister models is unavailable right now. And they are still all metal. Either they have enough stocks of everything or they cast it up on the spot when they get an order.


They cast more when needed, AFAIK. I ordered two blisters of three SoB to fill up my force and received them with white Citadel backing instead of the GW paper. Straight from the mint I guess.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/26 19:31:42


Post by: Troike


Spetulhu wrote:
 Shandara wrote:
Still, none of the sister models is unavailable right now. And they are still all metal. Either they have enough stocks of everything or they cast it up on the spot when they get an order.


They cast more when needed, AFAIK. I ordered two blisters of three SoB to fill up my force and received them with white Citadel backing instead of the GW paper. Straight from the mint I guess.

If true, then it's a very good sign. Shows that they have no immediate plans to discontinue the Sisters. Why else would they bother spending metal to keep making them?

On a related note, it's actually kinda cool to think that every Sister I've ordered from GW so far was casted specifically for me.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/26 19:48:09


Post by: Lynata


I recall reading somewhere that all mail order only minis are "cast on demand". They don't just keep churning out metal Catachans and Valhallans either.

The more obvious sign that GW does not plan to do away with them anytime soon is the revamp of their store page, as well as the release of WD articles. The new Minidex is a crutch, but there was no reason why GW should have invested any resources at all into this army if they just wanted to let them disappear.

They may not plan to get them a proper Codex or revisit their miniature line (I'll believe those rumours when I start seeing official announcements), but at the same time there is absolutely no reason to assume that they would suddenly pop out of existence just because a few haters keep proclaiming so since about five years.


Sisters of Battle - Are they dead? @ 2013/05/26 22:52:37


Post by: JWhex


 Furyou Miko wrote:
While they were working on the Dark Eldar overhaul, I believe Dark Eldar were completely unavailable for about two years.


Are you sure? I thought you could get them direct order at that time?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spetulhu wrote:
 Shandara wrote:
Still, none of the sister models is unavailable right now. And they are still all metal. Either they have enough stocks of everything or they cast it up on the spot when they get an order.


They cast more when needed, AFAIK. I ordered two blisters of three SoB to fill up my force and received them with white Citadel backing instead of the GW paper. Straight from the mint I guess.


This may have been true at one time but I doubt it is the case now. If someone in the US orders a metal model you think that the US branch calls in an order to have it cast up in the UK? That doesnt make sense to me. Is there any confirmation that GW is casting ANY metal models anymore?

I bet when the current SoB metal models are sold out that they will become unavailable until GW decides to revisit the army.