Rumour is that buggies and mek guns no longer split, so that language would support this change.

 kingbbobb wrote:
Looks like mech guns might have lost their mech guns deployment ability as s separate units.
The bubble chukka has the wording-

" ....if a unit contains more than 1 bubble chukka....."

Was there any scenario in which the separate unit thing was relevant? I don't suppose people moved their mek gunz after deployment around much anyway...

Otherwise I can see how this is quite bad considering that you now need to use more heavy slots if you want to place your mek gunz around the battlefield in strategic locations or suffer the max 2" distance between your gunz

Even without "all the puzzle pieces" I can't imagine a scenario which makes reduced battlefield coverage in terms of area better. Maybe it can be offset by something else but bunched up mek gunz doesnt sound appealing to me.

tulun wrote:
Rumour is that buggies and mek guns no longer split, so that language would support this change.

Buggies not splitting would be very weird. On the one hand it makes it so 1 unit of scrapjets don't all individually need access to a target to effectively engage them in CC, but then it makes the parking lot problem even more pronounced for movement. It also makes snazzwagons really weird with regards to their teleport ability, you'd never have enough to space to deep strike 2-3 of them.

Maybe Mek Gunz will ignore line of sight and act more like little artillery pieces. Would probably make them way too good though so probs not.

 Grimskul wrote:

tulun wrote:
Rumour is that buggies and mek guns no longer split, so that language would support this change.

Buggies not splitting would be very weird. On the one hand it makes it so 1 unit of scrapjets don't all individually need access to a target to effectively engage them in CC, but then it makes the parking lot problem even more pronounced for movement. It also makes snazzwagons really weird with regards to their teleport ability, you'd never have enough to space to deep strike 2-3 of them.

If true it really screws over buggies, yeah, in so many ways.

Hard to hide them, they have super bad leadership (6), enemy gains tons of efficiencies shooting them (as MSU is way worse to deal with than units of 2 or 3). Mob rule is also apparently gone.

Maybe there will be some good strats, or maybe the squig buggy will get indirect or something. FA slots are looking to be even more primo now though, so this kills buggy style lists without some kind of buffs in other ways.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
assuming prices dont screw with us (like now that KMB is D3 shots it goes to 15pts instead of 10 because GW logic) a quad-KMB deffdread feels really hilarious now...

Points matter but I feel like rokkits are better dread weapons unless you can get rerolling 1s because ~8 KMB is going to kill my dread/kan mighty quick. Extra shots are great if they actually hit and ideally not us!

All these ork previews feel like there is a bigger picture we are all missing Because these changes should be better but as previewed they look like overall nerfs. I’m just hoping there are a bunch more bespoke rules that haven’t been previewed that fixes a lot of the holes that appear from these previewed changes.

pepi55 wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
Looks like mech guns might have lost their mech guns deployment ability as s separate units.
The bubble chukka has the wording-

" ....if a unit contains more than 1 bubble chukka....."

Was there any scenario in which the separate unit thing was relevant? I don't suppose people moved their mek gunz after deployment around much anyway...

Otherwise I can see how this is quite bad considering that you now need to use more heavy slots if you want to place your mek gunz around the battlefield in strategic locations or suffer the max 2" distance between your gunz

Even without "all the puzzle pieces" I can't imagine a scenario which makes reduced battlefield coverage in terms of area better. Maybe it can be offset by something else but bunched up mek gunz doesnt sound appealing to me.

well yes, if they are in a unit non can shoot if just 1 model is in close combat.

seperate they have to be engaged by multiple attackers.

same for opposing debuffs stratagems, psychic abilities.
now all 6 smasha guns in a unit for example will get -1 to hit instead of 1 model from that enemy stratagem.

Emphasis mine, but it looks like exploding 6s to hit is gone?

Speculatiin, speculations. Without the whole context, juat speculations.

All I see is more dakka. That ´ a good.

I'm hoping that's the usual WHC snafu.

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm hoping that's the usual WFC snafu.

Unless it was changed to exploding hits, I could see them cutting it. Honestly, it just slows down the game with BS5+ models, and they seemed to want to overprice Orks assuming they got max shots on their random weapons *and* that it could spike via DDD.

You need 18 shots to just get 1 extra hit on average. It really only shone on stuff that got full re-rolls, or hit on better BS.

Yeah, I'm hoping they shift to exploding hits, I'm definitely a fan of not rerolling extra hits that usually is just a time-waster, but it'd kind of suck if we lost DDD! as a thematic rule.

So for starters I really want to drive home the point that just like everyone else I don't have all the new rules and this is just my opinion based upon the currently released rules, and as such, with it being new, I will likely change my opinion over time as I get more information and anything I have incorrect is corrected by you wonderful lot.


Overall First Impression: Fething Terrible. This is a nerf to Ork shooting almost across the board.

Starting off with Shootas: Losing Exploding 6s means Shootas are at 10-18' range WORSE than before. Once you get into 9' range you really don't want to be shooting much unless their is a 2nd unit nearby, otherwise they can remove 1-2 models and add 2-3' to the charge range. Furthermore, at 9' range it still takes a grand total of 12 Ork boyz shooting to kill a single Space Marine. Assuming we don't get a price hike that is ridiculous. 96pts of "buffed" shooting to kill a single fething Marine is pathetic. I'm leaving off Advance/shoot because I just can't imagine GW would Feth us that much. The New Dakka type must allow shooting after advancing, hopefully at full Ballistic skill.

Big Shootas: Straight up still worthless. If they become "free" than I can see them being taken if for no other reason than for S&G tactics. Being in 18' range for a big shoota is entirely doable. But 5 shots is still kinda meh at best and with no upgrades like the damn Heavy Bolter got....christ. Just so you understand, to kill 1 Space Marine with Big shootas, ALL within 18' range you need a grand total of 27 shots, so between 5 and 6 Big Shootas. Assuming you get them all on boyz that is 40-45pts of boyz and 25-30pts of Big shootas. All to kill 18pts of Marine. Now, if big shootas are free, that is way better, but still not great because again, you need all of those guns in 18' range. Would it have been too much to ask for -1AP? Would that have broken the game?

KMB: Sounds good at first, quad KMB Deffdreads just doubled their shots on average! WOO!! Problem being, they are now Blast which means when the dread or anything for that matter (Morkanaut) gets stuck in CC it can't be fired... Overall, not nearly as bad as shootas nerf but still not great. Just making it Assault D3 would have been fine, we didn't want or need blast on our weapons systems that enjoy being in CC.

The big one. Rokkitz: Mork help me. I have to show the numbers so people grasp how crap this really is. Assault 1 Rokkit meant on average you had a 38.8% chance to hit, if you advanced it went to 19.4% chance to hit. Based on the 24' range you will need to move at least turn 1, and likely turns 2-3 as well. With 1/2/3 shots this is how the math works out.

1 shot: 16.7% chance to hit
2 Shots: 33.3% chance to hit
3 shots: 50% chance to hit.
If you advance...0% chance to hit.

So on average you are getting 2 shots, which since you will likely be moving means you are now LESS likely to hit your target, the only time this isn't true is if you roll a 5 or 6 and get 3 shots which gives you a 11.2% extra chance to hit. IF you roll a 1-2, congrats you just lost 22.1% chance to hit. And the coup de grâce, Rokkitz are now Blast as well. I don't know about you guys, but the vehicles i have that also have Rokkitz, i generally want in CC. Scrapjets, Morkanautz, Kanz...I want all of those in CC at some point and that means my Rokkitz just got nerfed on those units as well.

Mek Gun rules: Bubble chukka is better, hands down its just better. D6 shots, with D6 strength and D6 AP sounds good but it averaged 3-4 shots, at S3-4 and AP-3/4. not really worth much. But the real problem is the wording of the rules. "If the unit contains more than 1 bubblechukka" Reasonably sure this means we will no longer be dividing our mek gunz up after placing them :( I can tell you as a fact that this is a HUGE nerf. I can't tell you how many times i've had opponents choose other targets for their weapons because they didn't want to overkill 1 Mek gun.

Honestly, I am slightly worried about our hopes of having useful shooting right now. Unless we have a lot of other rules interaction that we aren't seeing yet, it looks like GW just told orkz to feth off with shooting entirely.

I'm also skeptical about these rules changes. So much so that I've decided against the snagga box and will wait for the standalone codex release.

I think this probably an issue of poor framing and marketing.

Like the main stuff that has been unequivocally better has been the toughness and choppa changes (which are good). Even with the rumoured 9 ppm boys, this is a good change.

When you saw stuff like the incubi changes for DE, it was like "this is obviously better".

A lot of these teases leave a ton of questions, which is disappointing.

None of the 9th codexes so far have been truly bad, but I think it would have almost been better if they had left things in the dark than reveal a bunch of this stuff without full context.

pretty much the only reason i havnt rescinded my order at my flgs is my local groups are not that good. none of them are very good at playing the objective or finding niche "kill teams" in their armies of 2-3 units that are awesome together and can go off and do their own thing.

As a result i tend to stomp them even when im joking around. i've always been at the cusp of a pro-player in any game i play, tabletop or otherwise, but not quite good enough to actually compete (nor the interest)

I literally cant play admech right now, ive packed them away neatly. Im hoping the ork codex is good enough where i can at least play and have fun with these jokers in my area and not get stomped as hard as my admech/crons were stomping them lol.
Its fun to not play a truly min/max'd list to a degree. Long as it isnt a repeat of 7th edition level of bad i'll probably still have fun in my area (7th was so bad even the guy that routinely didnt remember half his rules would cripple me lol)

On a positive note; grot mobs rokkit kans are hitting on 3s, reroll 1s, d3 blast shots.

I wonder what the kopta rokkits profile will be?

SemperMortis wrote:
So for starters I really want to drive home the point that just like everyone else I don't have all the new rules and this is just my opinion based upon the currently released rules, and as such, with it being new, I will likely change my opinion over time as I get more information and anything I have incorrect is corrected by you wonderful lot.


Overall First Impression: Fething Terrible. This is a nerf to Ork shooting almost across the board.

Starting off with Shootas: Losing Exploding 6s means Shootas are at 10-18' range WORSE than before. Once you get into 9' range you really don't want to be shooting much unless their is a 2nd unit nearby, otherwise they can remove 1-2 models and add 2-3' to the charge range. Furthermore, at 9' range it still takes a grand total of 12 Ork boyz shooting to kill a single Space Marine. Assuming we don't get a price hike that is ridiculous. 96pts of "buffed" shooting to kill a single fething Marine is pathetic. I'm leaving off Advance/shoot because I just can't imagine GW would Feth us that much. The New Dakka type must allow shooting after advancing, hopefully at full Ballistic skill.

Big Shootas: Straight up still worthless. If they become "free" than I can see them being taken if for no other reason than for S&G tactics. Being in 18' range for a big shoota is entirely doable. But 5 shots is still kinda meh at best and with no upgrades like the damn Heavy Bolter got....christ. Just so you understand, to kill 1 Space Marine with Big shootas, ALL within 18' range you need a grand total of 27 shots, so between 5 and 6 Big Shootas. Assuming you get them all on boyz that is 40-45pts of boyz and 25-30pts of Big shootas. All to kill 18pts of Marine. Now, if big shootas are free, that is way better, but still not great because again, you need all of those guns in 18' range. Would it have been too much to ask for -1AP? Would that have broken the game?

KMB: Sounds good at first, quad KMB Deffdreads just doubled their shots on average! WOO!! Problem being, they are now Blast which means when the dread or anything for that matter (Morkanaut) gets stuck in CC it can't be fired... Overall, not nearly as bad as shootas nerf but still not great. Just making it Assault D3 would have been fine, we didn't want or need blast on our weapons systems that enjoy being in CC.

The big one. Rokkitz: Mork help me. I have to show the numbers so people grasp how crap this really is. Assault 1 Rokkit meant on average you had a 38.8% chance to hit, if you advanced it went to 19.4% chance to hit. Based on the 24' range you will need to move at least turn 1, and likely turns 2-3 as well. With 1/2/3 shots this is how the math works out.

1 shot: 16.7% chance to hit
2 Shots: 33.3% chance to hit
3 shots: 50% chance to hit.
If you advance...0% chance to hit.

So on average you are getting 2 shots, which since you will likely be moving means you are now LESS likely to hit your target, the only time this isn't true is if you roll a 5 or 6 and get 3 shots which gives you a 11.2% extra chance to hit. IF you roll a 1-2, congrats you just lost 22.1% chance to hit. And the coup de grâce, Rokkitz are now Blast as well. I don't know about you guys, but the vehicles i have that also have Rokkitz, i generally want in CC. Scrapjets, Morkanautz, Kanz...I want all of those in CC at some point and that means my Rokkitz just got nerfed on those units as well.

Mek Gun rules: Bubble chukka is better, hands down its just better. D6 shots, with D6 strength and D6 AP sounds good but it averaged 3-4 shots, at S3-4 and AP-3/4. not really worth much. But the real problem is the wording of the rules. "If the unit contains more than 1 bubblechukka" Reasonably sure this means we will no longer be dividing our mek gunz up after placing them :( I can tell you as a fact that this is a HUGE nerf. I can't tell you how many times i've had opponents choose other targets for their weapons because they didn't want to overkill 1 Mek gun.

Honestly, I am slightly worried about our hopes of having useful shooting right now. Unless we have a lot of other rules interaction that we aren't seeing yet, it looks like GW just told orkz to feth off with shooting entirely.

well let me throw you a bone - rockets on kanz will still hit on 4's as they are vehicles - a much needed buff for kanz

BDBurrow wrote:
On a positive note; grot mobs rokkit kans are hitting on 3s, reroll 1s, d3 blast shots.

I wonder what the kopta rokkits profile will be?

That's assuming we keep grot mobz the way they are and the kustom jobz are the same. Though kanz, assuming they're priced decently, definitely will be getting real mileage as a dakka unit.

SemperMortis wrote:

Overall First Impression: Fething Terrible. This is a nerf to Ork shooting almost across the board.

Furthermore, at 9' range it still takes a grand total of 12 Ork boyz shooting to kill a single Space Marine. Assuming we don't get a price hike that is ridiculous. 96pts of "buffed" shooting to kill a single fething Marine is pathetic. .

Big Shootas: Straight up still worthless. ALL within 18' range you need a grand total of 27 shots, so between 5 and 6 Big Shootas. Assuming you get them all on boyz that is 40-45pts of boyz and 25-30pts of Big shootas. All to kill 18pts of Marine.

Honestly, I am slightly worried about our hopes of having useful shooting right now. Unless we have a lot of other rules interaction that we aren't seeing yet, it looks like GW just told orkz to feth off with shooting entirely.

I am confused, are you complaining that shootas/big shoota are meh , or that the new codex rules are ?
The stats ( str, ap, d) of those guns don't change.
So, if 96pts of orks to kill a marine is pathetic, what about the 108pts we have today ? (~16 orks shootas with DDD).

Not trying to defend the new codex, after all we know not much about it, but you are comparing guns and models in the mindset that we will be playing them the same way we are playing them today.
No, this is wrong, keep in mind that we are going to change our tactics and the way we play.

Shootas ? Emphasize of the codex seems to get deadlier when we are close. and that's probably what we will do with them. In 9th ed units must go and grab objectives, getting closer is kind of obvious anyway.
Tankbustas ? Obviously, we will never advance our tankbustas, but more like playing them from a fixed position, probably center board - with T5 they may survive longer. Or maybe we'll get stratagems to move and shoot without penalties on heavies.
KMB ? well you just demonstrate that quad KMB is a bad idea. so we won't play that model fitted like that. Besides we have ways to fall back and still be shooting (blood axes rules for ex.. on a side note I really really hope the bloods axe can get way better rules....(

BDBurrow wrote:
On a positive note; grot mobs rokkit kans are hitting on 3s, reroll 1s, d3 blast shots.

I wonder what the kopta rokkits profile will be?

Do we even know if Grot mobs exist after a 9th Ed codex since that’s 8th Ed rules?

Another thing is we can see the person designing the ork changes have no idea what they are doing when they think a single str 10 hit on a bs4 platform that you can’t rely on to target is somehow better then d6 str 8 hits…. It really should have been d3 shots on a roll of 3. As designed it should target elite units with 3 wounds or similar vehicles like bikers, buggies etc. it’s a good change even if it’s slightly off

Well. I remain hopeful. I mean, Dakka guns are a new type of weapon that only WE have, meaning, our codex will most likely have the details for how they work.

You can probably still advance and fire them, and maybe we get no minus to hit?

I’m hopeful there will be niche shooting that works in spite of some poorly thought out rules.

But I expect some combo of evil suns, badmoons, strats, and warlord traits and maybe relics on certain vehicles to allow some stuff that’s better. To be fair ork shooting mostly sucked before anyway.

So how many extra shots does a Dakka jet in a apeedwaaagh?

11 ppm for a snagga will be a pain.

Codex seems weak

If true, then 9pts for Boyz and 11 for Snaggas is in-line with every codex released bar DE and Admech.
Battle sisters are 11, Necron Warriors are 13, Plague Marines are 21. It feels fair in that context.

It's only the silly priced troops that make them look bad. I know when you're forced to play Admech there is no way not to compare them to Skitarii though, so there is bound to be a bad taste when you look at 8pt Vanguard.

Boy is by far the worst troop of 9th edition codex. No way is fair costing 9 points.

shabadoit wrote:
If true, then 9pts for Boyz and 11 for Snaggas is in-line with every codex released bar DE and Admech.
Battle sisters are 11, Necron Warriors are 13, Plague Marines are 21. It feels fair in that context.

It's only the silly priced troops that make them look bad. I know when you're forced to play Admech there is no way not to compare them to Skitarii though, so there is bound to be a bad taste when you look at 8pt Vanguard.

What is the source of them being 9 and 11ppm being the price for Orks. In addition why the hell are they so expensive when Skitarii are walking around giving even space marine envy.

The prices are from the discord leaks, which have at least been partially proven.

There worse that 11pt, 13pt and 21pt models, sure, but I personally think the price is fair. I mean, Plague Marines are never played competitive and Battle Sisters are terrible and only see play because they're the only troop option.

We also haven't see the full range of buffs they can have. Maybe it will be Admech level crazy (it won't hopefully).

shabadoit wrote:
The prices are from the discord leaks, which have at least been partially proven.

There worse that 11pt, 13pt and 21pt models, sure, but I personally think the price is fair. I mean, Plague Marines are never played competitive and Battle Sisters are terrible and only see play because they're the only troop option.

We also haven't see the full range of buffs they can have. Maybe it will be Admech level crazy (it won't hopefully).

Why do these leaks never give the full picture if they have the information lol. And can I get a link to this Discord?

I think people are being hopeful dakkaguns will have an extra line in the advance and shoot like assault. If that was the case it should have been worded in the dakkagun text.

That or just removed assault from us across the board and replaced it with dakka, giving the bigger assault guns little difference in dakka range.

I have a feeling a tribe like evil sunz will get it, but not the dakkagun keyword itself

Keramory wrote:
I think people are being hopeful dakkaguns will have an extra line in the advance and shoot like assault. If that was the case it should have been worded in the dakkagun text.

Agreed. Though I think it will be more like an army-wide rule and use it as a way to differentiate from Grots. Like Orks can advance and shoot Dakka weapons without penalty. However, units consisting solely of Gretchin cannot. Or something like that.

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

shabadoit wrote:
The prices are from the discord leaks, which have at least been partially proven.

There worse that 11pt, 13pt and 21pt models, sure, but I personally think the price is fair. I mean, Plague Marines are never played competitive and Battle Sisters are terrible and only see play because they're the only troop option.

We also haven't see the full range of buffs they can have. Maybe it will be Admech level crazy (it won't hopefully).

Why do these leaks never give the full picture if they have the information lol. And can I get a link to this Discord?

https://m.imgur.com/a/927YwRE Compilation I made of leaks. There are some that I didn’t screenshot (such as 9 ppm boyz).

More rumors today:

Kill rig and hunta rig stats.
WS 3+, BS 5+ T8 W 16 Ld 7 Sv 3+ same for both.
M 12, 9, 6”
S 6, 5, 4
A 6 D6 D3
Both have
Eavy lobba - 48” D6 S6, -1AP D2
Stikka Kannon 12” S8 -2AP D3
Butch’s boyz 4 extra attacks in combat S5 -1AP D1 CC
Savage horns and hooves 4 extra CC attacks +1S -2AP D3 CC
Saw blades +2S -2AP D2 CC

Kill rig is a psyker, a character and has
Wurrtower 24” S9 -3AP D6 damage. Assault 1. If any psychic powers cast that phase become D3 attacks. Auto hits.

Transport is 10 <clan> beast snagga infantry.

Beardedragon wrote:
Well. I remain hopeful. I mean, Dakka guns are a new type of weapon that only WE have, meaning, our codex will most likely have the details for how they work.

You can probably still advance and fire them, and maybe we get no minus to hit?

then why the hell havn't they previewed it in the FETHING ARTICLE ABOUT DAKKA GUNZ?!

yeah i dont know... when i was reading up on DE or admech leaks... i always thought "oh thats a nice buff" like cognis lascans (or lances) doin 3+d3 dmg
or incubi doin 2dmg a pop, witches getting insane amounts of attacks etctec NOT ONCE have i thought that about the orks preview
ok, not entierly true... T5 and -1ap on choppaz were really good. but even then i was concerned about price hikes)

also another thing i dont get... evil sunz or speedfreaks obviously retain some form of "ignore penalties when advancing and shooting assault weapons" (see speedwaaagh buffs)
...ok i dig that... buuuuuut what assault weapons remain?? shootaz and big shootaz are dakka, rokkits are heavy what else do we have that is assault? burnas or grot guns? both wont matter.
the only thing i can think of are KMB's and a couple of buggy gunz, notable the boosta rivet gun and the shokk attack rifle.

The obvious change to save extra dice rolling was a 6 to hit generates another hit. It would be both an elegant and flavorful rule.

Instead we got half assed rapid fire.

 Dendarien wrote:


https://m.imgur.com/a/927YwRE Compilation I made of leaks. There are some that I didn’t screenshot (such as 9 ppm boyz).

omg
did they really nerf orks? xD
c'mon that dude has to be trolling... right?


EDIT:
how the hell am i supposed to play buggies in a unit??? THE BASES ARE FRIKKIN HUMONGOUS!!!

If those leaks are true, we got nerfed across the board and will suck for the next 4 years. Literally only snakebites and goffs will be played this edition.

RedNoak wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:


https://m.imgur.com/a/927YwRE Compilation I made of leaks. There are some that I didn’t screenshot (such as 9 ppm boyz).

omg
did they really nerf orks? xD
c'mon that dude has to be trolling... right?


EDIT:
how the hell am i supposed to play buggies in a unit??? THE BASES ARE FRIKKIN HUMONGOUS!!!

For some context this is what I gathered after an hour or two digging around in the orks discord: in mid-June somebody had a copy or was able to spend time with a copy of the codex. This person passed along rules changes to someone posting in Discord.

I know this all sounds very typical fake rumors of "friend of a friend" but look at the date of the original screen cap I put in imgur: 6/18. This guy was right about the dakka weapon profiles and the WAAAGH rules that far back. He could be lying, he could be lucky, but the simplest answer is he was right because he had the rules.

 Dendarien wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:


https://m.imgur.com/a/927YwRE Compilation I made of leaks. There are some that I didn’t screenshot (such as 9 ppm boyz).

omg
did they really nerf orks? xD
c'mon that dude has to be trolling... right?


EDIT:
how the hell am i supposed to play buggies in a unit??? THE BASES ARE FRIKKIN HUMONGOUS!!!

For some context this is what I gathered after an hour or two digging around in the orks discord: in mid-June somebody had a copy or was able to spend time with a copy of the codex. This person passed along rules changes to someone posting in Discord.

I know this all sounds very typical fake rumors of "friend of a friend" but look at the date of the original screen cap I put in imgur: 6/18. This guy was right about the dakka weapon profiles and the WAAAGH rules that far back. He could be lying, he could be lucky, but the simplest answer is he was right because he had the rules.

If true then mob rule disappearing and KFF at a 6++ is going to hurt even with the T5. Hopefully the weapons changes can make my Kanz/Dreads more viable to replace my tide.

So I just found an advanced rule that maybe changes things?

*Shooting whilst embarked in a transport*

9) If a TRANSPORT model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls, etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack.

Does this mean that the models inside of a transport are affected by speedwaagh?

BDBurrow wrote:
So I just found an advanced rule that maybe changes things?

*Shooting whilst embarked in a transport*

9) If a TRANSPORT model is under the effects of a modifier to its ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls, etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model makes a ranged attack.

Does this mean that the models inside of a transport are affected by speedwaagh?

I fee like it wouldnt confer the bonus because the speedwaagh rule only gives the vehicle the bonus when it is selected to shoot, which isnt the same time as the models inside it shoot.

We've been over this before with Battlewagons and infantry with Heavy weapons embarked in them before. GW only wants negative modifiers to affect passengers, not positive ones.

On the plus side, at least the teases are coming daily now.

Mmm, not sure how I feel about the D3 profiles on Rokkits and KMB. I certainly don't like the heavy on rockkits. It's one of the few weapons that tends to appear on infantry a bunch. Where big shootaz tend to appear on almost every vehicle.

Though having 4 big shootas on a vehicle then popping the speedwaagh means 24 str 5 ap1 shots if you're in half range of course. But to be honest. I would have preferred if Dakkagunz just gave 1+bs at half range instead, less mukkin about with a bunch of dice that will miss 2/3 of the time. Really hoping DDD isn't gone, or at least will have something to replace it that gives that rush of a few lucky hits making things explode.

cody.d. wrote:
On the plus side, at least the teases are coming daily now.

Mmm, not sure how I feel about the D3 profiles on Rokkits and KMB. I certainly don't like the heavy on rockkits. It's one of the few weapons that tends to appear on infantry a bunch. Where big shootaz tend to appear on almost every vehicle.

Though having 4 big shootas on a vehicle then popping the speedwaagh means 24 str 5 ap1 shots if you're in half range of course. But to be honest. I would have preferred if Dakkagunz just gave 1+bs at half range instead, less mukkin about with a bunch of dice that will miss 2/3 of the time. Really hoping DDD isn't gone, or at least will have something to replace it that gives that rush of a few lucky hits making things explode.

The wording from today's WHC article is DDD is gone and replaced by the new weapon type.

We should have 1 more day of previews tomorrow with Friday probably about crusade rules. Hopefully someone out in the wild has a full copy and they can spill the beans come Saturday.

 Dendarien wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
On the plus side, at least the teases are coming daily now.

Mmm, not sure how I feel about the D3 profiles on Rokkits and KMB. I certainly don't like the heavy on rockkits. It's one of the few weapons that tends to appear on infantry a bunch. Where big shootaz tend to appear on almost every vehicle.

Though having 4 big shootas on a vehicle then popping the speedwaagh means 24 str 5 ap1 shots if you're in half range of course. But to be honest. I would have preferred if Dakkagunz just gave 1+bs at half range instead, less mukkin about with a bunch of dice that will miss 2/3 of the time. Really hoping DDD isn't gone, or at least will have something to replace it that gives that rush of a few lucky hits making things explode.

The wording from today's WHC article is DDD is gone and replaced by the new weapon type.

We should have 1 more day of previews tomorrow with Friday probably about crusade rules. Hopefully someone out in the wild has a full copy and they can spill the beans come Saturday.

If DDD is gone that sort of leaves a gap in the faction design for special rules. We had a LD rule in mob rule, a mobility rule in Ere we go and an offensive rule in DDD. Unless one considers the Waaghs to fill that space? But then that leaves the warboss without his own aura. Bleh, it feels like a sliding sliding puzzle, GW is shuffling stuff around but then there are so many questions regarding the blank spaces.

Hopefully you're right and we will get a book leak next week. No clue how many players will actually be able to get their hands on the box preorders come Saturday.

RedNoak wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:


https://m.imgur.com/a/927YwRE Compilation I made of leaks. There are some that I didn’t screenshot (such as 9 ppm boyz).

omg
did they really nerf orks? xD
c'mon that dude has to be trolling... right?

Just read it now myself. I hate all of it lol! Seems like every tribe got nerfed pretty hard but Snakebites. ES losing +1 to charge feels especially bad.

It's clear we lost a lot of stuff to make way for the new mechanics. Which... fair... if the new stuff was better then what we already had. But so far between GWs leaks and this image... I'm not seeing what I should be happy about.

Some stuff just seems silly. Was breaking heads so bad they had to turn it into a strat? Really?

cody.d. wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
On the plus side, at least the teases are coming daily now.

Mmm, not sure how I feel about the D3 profiles on Rokkits and KMB. I certainly don't like the heavy on rockkits. It's one of the few weapons that tends to appear on infantry a bunch. Where big shootaz tend to appear on almost every vehicle.

Though having 4 big shootas on a vehicle then popping the speedwaagh means 24 str 5 ap1 shots if you're in half range of course. But to be honest. I would have preferred if Dakkagunz just gave 1+bs at half range instead, less mukkin about with a bunch of dice that will miss 2/3 of the time. Really hoping DDD isn't gone, or at least will have something to replace it that gives that rush of a few lucky hits making things explode.

The wording from today's WHC article is DDD is gone and replaced by the new weapon type.

We should have 1 more day of previews tomorrow with Friday probably about crusade rules. Hopefully someone out in the wild has a full copy and they can spill the beans come Saturday.

If DDD is gone that sort of leaves a gap in the faction design for special rules. We had a LD rule in mob rule, a mobility rule in Ere we go and an offensive rule in DDD. Unless one considers the Waaghs to fill that space? But then that leaves the warboss without his own aura. Bleh, it feels like a sliding sliding puzzle, GW is shuffling stuff around but then there are so many questions regarding the blank spaces.

Hopefully you're right and we will get a book leak next week. No clue how many players will actually be able to get their hands on the box preorders come Saturday.

Mob rule is gone if the rumors are to be believed and 'ere we go slightly nerfed (no rerolling single die).

I was more speculating if we'd get full leaks on the weekend from preview copies rather than people ordering the box. Not sure how this went with the SOB release but probably the same situation as that.

I see a lot of negativity but im sitting here wondering what could we get that offsets all these nerfs? What kind of rules would warrant all these predictions/leaks?

Some absurd unit abilities? Maybe some ridiculous warboss relics/traits?

I can simply not believe that there isnt something to compensate for these terrible klan kultur abilities, worse weapons and worse mobility.

I was thinking something along the lines of super low cost models but that was covered by the leaks so all thats left are special rules/auras. Im not sure if good stratagems would make up for the way they massacred our boiz, especially at the 500pts range where you get only 3CP...

So lootaz are s7 ap1 dakka3/2 eh? Could be great... Put a bunch of em into trukks and drive around pewpew things up to 24" to death... But then you realize they are 17ppm xD

Maybe snazzguns will be dakka? Could make flashgitz viable? 4 or 5 shots at 12" range?

Seems my 3rd edition drive-by Ork army makes a comeback… wished we still had bolt-on big shootaz

 Dendarien wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:


https://m.imgur.com/a/927YwRE Compilation I made of leaks. There are some that I didn’t screenshot (such as 9 ppm boyz).

omg
did they really nerf orks? xD
c'mon that dude has to be trolling... right?


EDIT:
how the hell am i supposed to play buggies in a unit??? THE BASES ARE FRIKKIN HUMONGOUS!!!

For some context this is what I gathered after an hour or two digging around in the orks discord: in mid-June somebody had a copy or was able to spend time with a copy of the codex. This person passed along rules changes to someone posting in Discord.

I know this all sounds very typical fake rumors of "friend of a friend" but look at the date of the original screen cap I put in imgur: 6/18. This guy was right about the dakka weapon profiles and the WAAAGH rules that far back. He could be lying, he could be lucky, but the simplest answer is he was right because he had the rules.

sounds like a playtesters version which is partially or mostly accurate but not always reflective of the final draft.. hopefully playtesters did thier job and provided better feedback then just trying to get sneak peaks and screenshooting early versions.

I don’t want to add to the grim outlook on this book but, I’m pretty concerned Kanz are going to be made worse with only being able to take what’s in their kit, so can’t all take Rocket launchers (unless I’m wrong and there’s more than 1?).

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I don’t want to add to the grim outlook on this book but, I’m pretty concerned Kanz are going to be made worse with only being able to take what’s in their kit, so can’t all take Rocket launchers (unless I’m wrong and there’s more than 1?).

We don't know what GW will hit with the "only in the box" options. They are very erratic about it.

YIKES, if that stuff is all true....like damn, they did my deffskullz dirty. I get they were definitely way too stacked with traits but ummmmmm, really? a 5+ FNP save against mortals?

Love how Blood Axes stayed the same, poor guys can't catch a break.

How much you guys want to bet the Killa Klaw only exists as a Crusade weapon or that its downgraded to being 2 damage and it doesn't reroll wounds? So it's literally just a PK with no negative to hit.

Ok, wot!? As a long time Bad Moons player, I don't mind the rumored clan rule, but as a Dread Waaagh player the Morkanaut as a LoW? KFF as only 6+?! Are you zoggin' kidding me?

It feels like 7th edition all over again. Awesome. I had to quit for 3 years Last time it happened.

Oh and stop with all the "we don't have the full picture yet". The picture is big enough right now to know our new codex has nerfed anything that was remotely fun and/or competitive.

So far, everything looks pretty dissapointing, except for T5 AP-1 choppas.

I don't have much experience with playing big 40k (I prefer to stick to skirmishes), but isn't changed Dakka rule going to slow the game down a lot? Now you have to measure which models from your blob are within half-range to have more shots, and with 30 shoota blob that is going to be a lot more annoying than measuring rapid fire for 10 marines.

Also I don't get why they didn't just make it rapid fire. Would 6 shots Big Shoota really be that OP? For 4 shot shootas you still need to bring 9 orks within 9" to kill a single marine. My only explanation is that there might be some other interractions with dakka other than a nerfed rapid fire rules, perhaps being able to advance and shoot with no penalty? Or mekbos buffing surrounding units to max dakka at long range?

Also who knows, maybe shoota boy blob will get some bonus for hitting when all of them shoot at the same target or there are more than X number of boys? I'm not too hopeful for what is comming next though.

Now I have two thoughts:

1) Biker boss and Deffkilla wartrike are both BIKER/VEHICLE and CHARACTER, so what kind of waaagh do they get? Player's choice? Both?

2) Tankbustas seem to be nerfed as rokkit launchas are going to be heavy, but one of their most common tactic was to appear by outflank or tellyport and fire after being enhanced by More Dakka. Assuming More Dakka still exists now the new tankbustas are actually 2x to 3x more powerful since penalties are removed so heavy doesn't matter and instead of firing one shot they now fire D3 with Blast.

RedNoak wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Well. I remain hopeful. I mean, Dakka guns are a new type of weapon that only WE have, meaning, our codex will most likely have the details for how they work.

You can probably still advance and fire them, and maybe we get no minus to hit?

then why the hell havn't they previewed it in the FETHING ARTICLE ABOUT DAKKA GUNZ?!

yeah i dont know... when i was reading up on DE or admech leaks... i always thought "oh thats a nice buff" like cognis lascans (or lances) doin 3+d3 dmg
or incubi doin 2dmg a pop, witches getting insane amounts of attacks etctec NOT ONCE have i thought that about the orks preview
ok, not entierly true... T5 and -1ap on choppaz were really good. but even then i was concerned about price hikes)

also another thing i dont get... evil sunz or speedfreaks obviously retain some form of "ignore penalties when advancing and shooting assault weapons" (see speedwaaagh buffs)
...ok i dig that... buuuuuut what assault weapons remain?? shootaz and big shootaz are dakka, rokkits are heavy what else do we have that is assault? burnas or grot guns? both wont matter.
the only thing i can think of are KMB's and a couple of buggy gunz, notable the boosta rivet gun and the shokk attack rifle.

i dont know?

Like anyone else, i dont know why they do what they do. there are a ton of rules that arent explained yet. Maybe they just wanted to preview some of how the dakka guns work but not all of it. Theres no telling if we can advance and charge or not with the weapons.

 Blackie wrote:
Now I have two thoughts:

1) Biker boss and Deffkilla wartrike are both BIKER/VEHICLE and CHARACTER, so what kind of waaagh do they get? Player's choice? Both?

Both wartrike and biker boss have the speedwaaagh, so as a warlord they call that one. If you have another warboss as your warlord, they get the regular one. If you have Thrakka, they get both.

2) Tankbustas seem to be nerfed as rokkit launchas are going to be heavy, but one of their most common tactic was to appear by outflank or tellyport and fire after being enhanced by More Dakka. Assuming More Dakka still exists now the new tankbustas are actually 2x to 3x more powerful since penalties are removed so heavy doesn't matter and instead of firing one shot they now fire D3 with Blast.

Too many unknowns here really, as we don't know if they keep their re-rolls or if Moar Dakka stays with us and whether it can be used on units that arrive from deep strike.
Just from what we know, d3 shots hitting on 6+ is roughly the same as 1 shot hitting on 5+, but more swingy and no more DDD

It's relatively safe to assume that they will not leave the suicide combo that the had previously intact. My guess is that tank hammers and rokkit pistols will become mandatory to tune down their massive damage potential.

well. the fact its heavy, the rokkits sucks, but i usually teleported in my tankbustas anyway so it doesnt matter much to me.

Not only are these rules worse in most cases, they’re way less fun. Really gonna miss usin a kannon wagon and getting a million sixes. Ps, feth n gak, blood axes are staying dysfunctional still. Just give us 30 inch shootas and -1 to hit at 12 inches. Snakebitez seem to be gettin blood angels and DA inner circle lol. Just hoping we get kustom klans, might make us workable.

Beardedragon wrote:
well. the fact its heavy, the rokkits sucks, but i usually teleported in my tankbustas anyway so it doesnt matter much to me.

It doesn't matter for vehicles either, they now have up to 3x the firepower in rokkits compared to the previous codex, with no penalty.

I had such hopes... High hopes make the fall and then impact that much more painful. TBH if one 9th ed codex had to be written all wrong, it was bound to be us, wasn't it ?

Oh well on the bright side of things, Goff hordes led by Ghaz seem really nasty now, like "delete whatever you touch" nasty.
Of course with 9 ppm we won't be having much aside from Da Boyz, so w&s the archetype actually works.

One thing that seems kind of certain (kind of because we don't have the strats relic, perhaps a few moar spucial ruuuuules, etc. yet), is that we sure as Mork ain't competing with druk and ad mech any time soon are we ? Sista level we may still get to with the right list building.

PS Blackie I love that Chiellini and Bonucci pic. Guess asking for that european cup + a decent ork codex was probably to much. Something had to give...

XC18 wrote:

I am confused, are you complaining that shootas/big shoota are meh , or that the new codex rules are ?
The stats ( str, ap, d) of those guns don't change.
So, if 96pts of orks to kill a marine is pathetic, what about the 108pts we have today ? (~16 orks shootas with DDD).

Not trying to defend the new codex, after all we know not much about it, but you are comparing guns and models in the mindset that we will be playing them the same way we are playing them today.
No, this is wrong, keep in mind that we are going to change our tactics and the way we play.

Shootas ? Emphasize of the codex seems to get deadlier when we are close. and that's probably what we will do with them. In 9th ed units must go and grab objectives, getting closer is kind of obvious anyway.
Tankbustas ? Obviously, we will never advance our tankbustas, but more like playing them from a fixed position, probably center board - with T5 they may survive longer. Or maybe we'll get stratagems to move and shoot without penalties on heavies.
KMB ? well you just demonstrate that quad KMB is a bad idea. so we won't play that model fitted like that. Besides we have ways to fall back and still be shooting (blood axes rules for ex.. on a side note I really really hope the bloods axe can get way better rules....(

No, I was giving my opinion on the information available. As far as the Shoota, ATM it takes 15-16 (120-128pts) Orkz shooting with DDD to kill a Marine, at any range 1-18. Guess how many Ork boyz it takes after this "Buff" at 10-18? 18. So its a minor buff at short range which is going to be incredibly niche in the game since those boyz are still going to want to be in CC and since shooting your charge target means you might lose charge range. And at mid-long range its a nerf.

I was hoping that Orkz would receive a somewhat hefty buff in dmg output to match that given to Marines and other factions in order for their basic weapon to keep up with the defensive power curve. In prior editions (Pre 2W marines) it only took 9 Orkz to kill a Marine, at that time an Ork boy was 6ppm and a Marine was 15. So 2.5x cheaper. Now (assuming we don't go to 9ppm) an ork is 2.25x cheaper (so less cheap in comparison) and it now takes 2x as many boyz to kill a Marine.

Honestly, if Ork shootas were going to stay relevant they would have needed to go to 4 shots, at worst it should have been 4 shots at half range and 3 normal. And even then it wouldn't have been as good as it used to be.

cody.d. wrote:
On the plus side, at least the teases are coming daily now.

Mmm, not sure how I feel about the D3 profiles on Rokkits and KMB. I certainly don't like the heavy on rockkits. It's one of the few weapons that tends to appear on infantry a bunch. Where big shootaz tend to appear on almost every vehicle.

Though having 4 big shootas on a vehicle then popping the speedwaagh means 24 str 5 ap1 shots if you're in half range of course. But to be honest. I would have preferred if Dakkagunz just gave 1+bs at half range instead, less mukkin about with a bunch of dice that will miss 2/3 of the time. Really hoping DDD isn't gone, or at least will have something to replace it that gives that rush of a few lucky hits making things explode.

It will take, on average, 27 big shoota shots to kill 1 Marine, with speedwaagh it goes to 18. So at max range (Turn 1...arguably the most important turn) its likely going to be 9 Big shootas to kill 1 Marine. if you get within 18' range its going to be 5-6 Big shootas. If you get within 18 AND pop Speedwaaagh its going to take 3-4 Big shootas to kill 1 single Marine.

Let all of that sink in. A SM Heavy Bolter went from 9 shots (3 heavy bolters) to kill 1 Marine (9 shots, 6 hits, 4 wounds 2 dmg) to needing 4.5 shots to kill 1 Marine. Here we were hoping that Big shootas would maybe get 5 shots standard AND -1 AP. What did we get? A nerf at max range and +2 shots at Half range....

RedNoak wrote:
So lootaz are s7 ap1 dakka3/2 eh? Could be great... Put a bunch of em into trukks and drive around pewpew things up to 24" to death... But then you realize they are 17ppm xD

Lootas will likely be dead this edition as well. Hell, they sucked in 8th until we got a stratagem to mob them into a huge horde, double their firepower and give them exploding 5s and 6s. As soon as they took away the mob up rule the Loota bomb went away and you never again saw Lootas on the competitive lists again. In 9th? If they go the way of Dakkagunz and get 3/2 at 20ppm....yeah they will be just as terrible. They are the epitome of "Glass Cannon" but they have always lacked the "Cannon" aspect of the analogy. At 2 shots each a unit of 10 will currently only net you 7.7 hits for 5.2Ish wounds and 2.5 dead Marines. 200Pts killing 45ts is not exactly a good trade off. At 3 shots it goes to 4 Marines on average but still nowhere near where it should be for a unit that has 6+ armor because it works out to 1 turn of shooting before they in turn die. Barring some new rules interactions we don't know about yet, if Lootas aren't at the least 3 shots standard, they won't have much place in the game.

And finally, I really want to drive this point home because its annoying the hell out of me. Transhuman on S7 and below is NOT a good rule for orkz. Guys we are already T5. That means the only weapon systems that are impacted by this are S6, S7 and +1 to wound on S5 weapons (And a couple other niche scenarios). Those weapons are pretty scarce as of this moment. To put it bluntly, its not a good Kulture buff

Yeah Goff boyz for the damage output seems the way to go, but perhaps snakebites if "assault canons and the like" become meta. Bad moon gorkanauts (if gorkanaut can still take the KJ for 4+ BS, and gorkanauts are more durable than currently) could be decent with bad moon extra range and the speedwaagh extra ap.

If lootas can't gain AP (they can't through the waaaghs) yes they will keep being trash, but perhaps they went to AP 2 ? (on reddit the guys says they are trash though, so don't get any hopes up)

If the rumors are true and Mob Rule is gone how badly will that hurt us and what might we expect as a brandade of that problem? I was over the moon when I first read Mob rule after suffering through the previous rule from 7th, which to me never did any thing positive for me outside of a Green tide formation. 7th was such a kick in the crotch.
I really feel like not having my troops evaporate at the first sign of enemy contact is key to having my half of the fun. Has GW lost their collective minds or will it all be ok?

Geeze I just wrote a BoLS or spiky bitz post there. Sorry for that.
I'm just a little worried.

It's very disappointing because the model releases for this new edition is truly amongst the best Orks have gotten, yet GW really seem to have dropped the ball when it comes to following through on the rules side. It certainly does not seem to match the rules writing of Admech or DE where pretty much everything got elevated to usable and streamlined.

Yeah it seems like for us everything is made equally unusable and streamlined...

exagerations aside, I am still hyped for the new snagga mounts since I like the AoS aesthetic they have. Im pretty sure i will still get the box just for the minis even if I will have to shelf them until the next codex.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the 25pt difference between the BW and bonebreaker is usually the reason i use the BW. Often i find i need to shed a few points...and D6 extra attacks that gets denied if someone charges me first isnt that appealing.

I prefer the bonebreaka. I use it extensively with the red rolla. I typically load it with 10 nobz with big choppas, pay to put it in the tellyporta, and then pop Ramming speed out of Deep Strike.
I don't give any guns to the bonebreaka, it is simply there to deliver nobz and smack, and getting 3d6 charge with reroll any/all dice has been super silly. I've not played in any GTs but I do a lot of local tournaments and typically do well (2-1 is my normal record locally against a bunch of sweaty neck beard guard/marine players)

 warhead01 wrote:

I really feel like not having my troops evaporate at the first sign of enemy contact is key to having my half of the fun. Has GW lost their collective minds or will it all be ok?

Don't forget that morale is a lot less punishing in 9th. Units don't evaporate, you just lose 1 guy + 1/6 of the remaning unit (or 1/3 of the remaining unit if you're already badly depleted). Painful but nowhere near as bad as 'kill half the unit and watch the other half vanish'.

If lootas can't gain AP (they can't through the waaaghs) yes they will keep being trash, but perhaps they went to AP 2 ? (on reddit the guys says they are trash though, so don't get any hopes up)

With the SpeedWaaagh, if loota are in a vehicle they can imporve their AP.
In addition, if they have Dakka weapon, they can move and shoot without penalty.

I didn't say loota will be awsome in this new codex but there may be things to do with

new article confirms the snakebite traits.

Squigboy weapons are pretty good assuming they arent priced out the wazoo like ork stuff usually is on release (buggies had to be cut back by like 25-30% before we touched them)

3 S6 Ap2 2D attacks from the ork and 2 S6 Ap1 2D attacks from the squig. Not bad, and if Snakebites they will wound most things on 2+ on the charge

Also the strat is interesting....you pick up to 3 snagga units to get the bonus. That makes me wonder if Squigboyz are locked to 3 models per unit but they offset the biggest problem with doing that (strat benefits) by letting the strat target multiples.

Snakebites klan trait and Squighog full rules out. Leaks were correct again.

Squighogs seem decent enough. I now consider if I should convert a squad of those on smaller trikes to match my Speed Freeks.

Kinda surprised there's no bonus to damage/strength for the stikka on the charge, though tbf Snakebites already get a bonus for squig units so they probably didn't want to over do it. They also have a ranged attack so that partly makes up for it.

But yet another rumour confirmed on the leaks that were shared.

I can live with no Mob Rule (personally what hurts more is that we can't count as Ld30 against stuff like Mind War and other Ld shenanigans) but having a 6+ invuln KFF is going to HURT. They better cut its cost down to like 10-15 points because it's nowhere near worth what it cost before now.

Bonebreaka with Red Rolla in Tellyporta plus Ramming Speed is a solid combo, even if it's empty, but I would never play it in a different way.

For a transport that needs to be on the field turn 1 the regular BW is hands down better though, cheaper, with a higher transport capacity and a better save, assuming you give it Forktress or has a Big Mek inside. And the additional D6 attacks aren't always gained.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:


PS Blackie I love that Chiellini and Bonucci pic. Guess asking for that european cup + a decent ork codex was probably to much. Something had to give...

Well I like to follow leaks and rumors and to make my own speculations, but until I see the whole codex I don't really worry. I'm quite optimistic .

Leaks accurate again.

Squighog boys, if they are around 35ish points, might be quite good under snakebites.

 warhead01 wrote:
If the rumors are true and Mob Rule is gone how badly will that hurt us and what might we expect as a brandade of that problem? I was over the moon when I first read Mob rule after suffering through the previous rule from 7th, which to me never did any thing positive for me outside of a Green tide formation. 7th was such a kick in the crotch.
I really feel like not having my troops evaporate at the first sign of enemy contact is key to having my half of the fun. Has GW lost their collective minds or will it all be ok?

Geeze I just wrote a BoLS or spiky bitz post there. Sorry for that.
I'm just a little worried.

mob rule loss would hurt a lot on morale, but with how 9th handles morale its not nearly as bad as it would have been in 8th. I am hoping they mayeb just bring back the boss pole IF we lost mob rule, it is in the current boyz box and is fairly iconic to orks.

Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

 Dendarien wrote:
Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

Yeah, its kinda a weird edge case where its really dependent on the local meta, since only some armies can really spam S6-7 weaponry.

st7, strategies that do the +1 and poison weapons if they can wound on a 3 or better

 Dendarien wrote:
Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

Honestly based on my experience with +1 to wound at the tournament I was at last weekend - that would be great to counteract that. It was so obnoxious.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
new article confirms the snakebite traits.

Squigboy weapons are pretty good assuming they arent priced out the wazoo like ork stuff usually is on release (buggies had to be cut back by like 25-30% before we touched them)

3 S6 Ap2 2D attacks from the ork and 2 S6 Ap1 2D attacks from the squig. Not bad, and if Snakebites they will wound most things on 2+ on the charge

Also the strat is interesting....you pick up to 3 snagga units to get the bonus. That makes me wonder if Squigboyz are locked to 3 models per unit but they offset the biggest problem with doing that (strat benefits) by letting the strat target multiples.

The datasheet says No. 3-6 on top of the datasheet

 Nazgrim wrote:

If lootas can't gain AP (they can't through the waaaghs) yes they will keep being trash, but perhaps they went to AP 2 ? (on reddit the guys says they are trash though, so don't get any hopes up)

With the SpeedWaaagh, if loota are in a vehicle they can imporve their AP.
In addition, if they have Dakka weapon, they can move and shoot without penalty.

I didn't say loota will be awsome in this new codex but there may be things to do with

Embarked models don't gain any benefit from Speedwaaagh!, it specifically only affects models in Vehicle and Biker units, not models embarked in one.

Twilight Pathways wrote:


Don't forget that morale is a lot less punishing in 9th. Units don't evaporate, you just lose 1 guy + 1/6 of the remaning unit (or 1/3 of the remaining unit if you're already badly depleted). Painful but nowhere near as bad as 'kill half the unit and watch the other half vanish'.

Lets do some simple math. Orkz with a Nob are LD7. In a mob of 30 you lose 7 boyz (not exactly fething hard). You auto lose 1 more so now you have 22 boyz left, you than lose 1/6th of what is left, so you lose 3-4 more boyz. Every single fething time we lose 7 models from an Ork mob you are going to lose 4-5 more from Morale. Losing 40pts per turn to morale is kind of a big deal honestly.

 Dendarien wrote:
Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

Its even worse LMAO! I just realized, the Snakebite kulture is the one you are going to want to take Squig riders in, and they are T6! LMAO! So YAY it fething stops S7 weapons from wounding you on 3s. Whoopdee fething do.

I think I'm ok with these rules. My biggest concern was we weren't going to want to use snagga boyz in anything other than snakebites. Looking at the kultur rules though, that's really only the case for the awful squig rider models. I can definitely see throwing 10-20 snaggas in a transport as part of a goff/evil suns/etc. list. 110 pts for 10 inherent S5 boyz with a 6++ and some different utility ranged weapons. Makes the beast snagga box a little more enticing. I could just keep the snagga boyz and sell everything else.

SemperMortis wrote:

Twilight Pathways wrote:


Don't forget that morale is a lot less punishing in 9th. Units don't evaporate, you just lose 1 guy + 1/6 of the remaning unit (or 1/3 of the remaining unit if you're already badly depleted). Painful but nowhere near as bad as 'kill half the unit and watch the other half vanish'.

Lets do some simple math. Orkz with a Nob are LD7. In a mob of 30 you lose 7 boyz (not exactly fething hard). You auto lose 1 more so now you have 22 boyz left, you than lose 1/6th of what is left, so you lose 3-4 more boyz. Every single fething time we lose 7 models from an Ork mob you are going to lose 4-5 more from Morale. Losing 40pts per turn to morale is kind of a big deal honestly.

 Dendarien wrote:
Snakebite transhuman seems kinda bad? You’re already T5 so it only helps against S7 weapons. I guess it counteracts +1 to wound effects.

Its even worse LMAO! I just realized, the Snakebite kulture is the one you are going to want to take Squig riders in, and they are T6! LMAO! So YAY it fething stops S7 weapons from wounding you on 3s. Whoopdee fething do.

You ignored the other part of that - which is the +1 to wound impact. So what would be +1's turning things to 2s and 3s can't. Unless it doesn't block that? Not sure on that interaction.

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

You ignored the other part of that - which is the +1 to wound impact. So what would be +1's turning things to 2s and 3s can't. Unless it doesn't block that? Not sure on that interaction.

Yes, I purposefully ignored it. Because how many S6 weapons do you know of that have a +1 to wound mechanic? The snakebite kulture is crap. Maybe they will let Grotz take the kulture finally, if that is the case Snakebites will just be hte grot kulture with Green tide becoming a horde of little Grots who can only be wounded on 4s

Squighog statline isn't bad for sure. I don't see it doing much damage to a knight (5-7 with stategem and snakebite) but they are decent against PEQ.

I think the bigger part of snakebite is the +1 to wound on squigs more so than the weird S1-S7 rule which downscales in effectiveness ironically on squigs with T6.

I feel like the value from the weird S7 rule would primarily be useful in the sense that it would cover you from S3-S7 and force your opponent into a S3 or S5/6 sweet spot to deal damage efficiently. That could be confounding for marines who don't have a lot of either, being primarily S4 with some odds and ends at S8, S7, and S5.

The bigger concern I have is that since this leak proved to be true, it makes me worried about KFF getting nerfed. KFF would also be redundant with the Snagga gits.

Does anyone think they will switch to Snakebites with this new rule? I feel like there are almost certainly going to be more interesting combos in the dex with other traits, which will potentially make squigs less appealing as a result.

I'm also particularly frustrated as klaws are again getting sidelined behind all these new weapons - 'uge choppa, the pincer, the spears....even the klaws so far, every single one has been messed up. The nob klaw is backwards for some reason, the snagga boss has a silly looking skull klaw, the painboss klaw looks weird, the squig rider SC only has a wrist mounted stabba, and they seem to be big on this pincer thing.

At least it might mean fewer of those killsaws which are awful from a modeling standpoint.

I just want a legit standard power klaw, man. What's so wrong about the old school good-ol' power klaw? It looks better than any of this junk.

SemperMortis wrote:

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

You ignored the other part of that - which is the +1 to wound impact. So what would be +1's turning things to 2s and 3s can't. Unless it doesn't block that? Not sure on that interaction.

Yes, I purposefully ignored it. Because how many S6 weapons do you know of that have a +1 to wound mechanic? The snakebite kulture is crap. Maybe they will let Grotz take the kulture finally, if that is the case Snakebites will just be hte grot kulture with Green tide becoming a horde of little Grots who can only be wounded on 4s

That would be hilarious and exactly the kind of thing I expect GW to overlook before grot tide becomes a new meta and GW furiously nerfs them to the ground. With how the klan traits are looking they may as well give them to grots at this point tbh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
Squighog statline isn't bad for sure. I don't see it doing much damage to a knight (5-7 with stategem and snakebite) but they are decent against PEQ.

I think the bigger part of snakebite is the +1 to wound on squigs more so than the weird S1-S7 rule which downscales in effectiveness ironically on squigs with T6.

I feel like the value from the weird S7 rule would primarily be useful in the sense that it would cover you from S3-S7 and force your opponent into a S3 or S5/6 sweet spot to deal damage efficiently. That could be confounding for marines who don't have a lot of either, being primarily S4 with some odds and ends at S8, S7, and S5.

The bigger concern I have is that since this leak proved to be true, it makes me worried about KFF getting nerfed. KFF would also be redundant with the Snagga gits.

Does anyone think they will switch to Snakebites with this new rule? I feel like there are almost certainly going to be more interesting combos in the dex with other traits, which will potentially make squigs less appealing as a result.

I'm also particularly frustrated as klaws are again getting sidelined behind all these new weapons - 'uge choppa, the pincer, the spears....even the klaws so far, every single one has been messed up. The nob klaw is backwards for some reason, the snagga boss has a silly looking skull klaw, the painboss klaw looks weird, the squig rider SC only has a wrist mounted stabba, and they seem to be big on this pincer thing.

At least it might mean fewer of those killsaws which are awful from a modeling standpoint.

I just want a legit standard power klaw, man. What's so wrong about the old school good-ol' power klaw? It looks better than any of this junk.

Yeah, I did find it interesting that they've been avoiding showing any sign of the PK rule overhaul, it's a bit concerning we're seeing all these baby variants with +2S, AP-2 and flat 2 damage but nothing on the main kind. I have a bad feeling with these rumours that it might actually be worse than a SM PF at this point.

SemperMortis wrote:

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

You ignored the other part of that - which is the +1 to wound impact. So what would be +1's turning things to 2s and 3s can't. Unless it doesn't block that? Not sure on that interaction.

Yes, I purposefully ignored it. Because how many S6 weapons do you know of that have a +1 to wound mechanic? The snakebite kulture is crap. Maybe they will let Grotz take the kulture finally, if that is the case Snakebites will just be hte grot kulture with Green tide becoming a horde of little Grots who can only be wounded on 4s

I could be a stupid git but I remember a bunch of Drukhari gak blowing my Evil Sunz mind as they wounded me on 3s with the +1 to wound while my stuff was T6. It was a lot of shenanigans so I lost track to be honest lol.

Denying poison effects is the big thing about the transork rule. They clearly did that because of drukari i gaurantee it, dont want the "oops too strong" army to auto kill the new shinies after all.

Theres also a handful of relics or special guns on characters that just flatout wound on 2s that are denied such effects.

Its not bad. Its just not ridiculous because for some reason S8 is easier to spam than S6/7 in this game. Had it included S8 we probably wouldnt be complaining at all since it makes sense such a mechanic would have a limit (even transhuman should have a flippin limit, a FW titan gun of S-FU only wounding a gravis armor on 4s is just fething dumb)
Honestly outside of a few melee focused units with S6 powerswords i cant think of any S6/7 thats brought in decent rate of fire. It basically jumps from S4/5 spam to S8, since Autocannons suck generally and for some reason nothing else S6/7 shooting wise is spammable for most armies.

That being said, my army is yellow and badmoonz look decent if that rumor is true so i may be happy for that lol. 24" shoota boyz ftw.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Denying poison effects is the big thing about the transork rule. They clearly did that because of drukari i gaurantee it, dont want the "oops too strong" army to auto kill the new shinies after all.

Theres also a handful of relics or special guns on characters that just flatout wound on 2s that are denied such effects.

Its not bad. Its just not ridiculous because for some reason S8 is easier to spam than S6/7 in this game. Had it included S8 we probably wouldnt be complaining at all since it makes sense such a mechanic would have a limit (even transhuman should have a flippin limit, a FW titan gun of S-FU only wounding a gravis armor on 4s is just fething dumb)
Honestly outside of a few melee focused units with S6 powerswords i cant think of any S6/7 thats brought in decent rate of fire. It basically jumps from S4/5 spam to S8, since Autocannons suck generally and for some reason nothing else S6/7 shooting wise is spammable for most armies.

That being said, my army is yellow and badmoonz look decent if that rumor is true so i may be happy for that lol. 24" shoota boyz ftw.

Bad Moonz always gets da gubbinz... I am concerned for my Evil Sunz buggy/Speed Freeks army but pleasantly awaiting the vehicle preview tomorrow.

I'm usually overly optimistic but the rumor of buggies not splitting anymore.... oof. If we get a Ravenwing style detachment I could be cool with that but sheesh.

More discord rumors on klan traits and relics: https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Not sure if it’s the same source as before

 Dendarien wrote:
More discord rumors on klan traits and relics: https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Not sure if it’s the same source as before

Is this a general Orks discord or just one you're a part of? Haha I'd like an invite link if it's general.

if that Goff trait is legit and Ghaz doesnt have a special one thats gonna be funny to see people's face when they finally bring that beast down and he just stands right back up lol

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
More discord rumors on klan traits and relics: https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Not sure if it’s the same source as before

Is this a general Orks discord or just one you're a part of? Haha I'd like an invite link if it's general.

It’s a public one from the Reddit. https://discord.gg/agDGePhX


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if that Goff trait is legit and Ghaz doesnt have a special one thats gonna be funny to see people's face when they finally bring that beast down and he just stands right back up lol

Formatting is kind of bad but that looks like a snakebite trait to me.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if that Goff trait is legit and Ghaz doesnt have a special one thats gonna be funny to see people's face when they finally bring that beast down and he just stands right back up lol

That’s the snakebite trait

Goff is the same +1 atk and -1 ap

As expected looks like orks is being pushed into snagga boys and snakebites as the Meta with still a chance for a ghaz list to be decent. Without unending greentide and it’s doubtful if skarboys exist I doubt choppaboys list are viable at 9ppm. But there is still a bit to see psychic powers and painboss effects etc.

 Dendarien wrote:

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
More discord rumors on klan traits and relics: https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Not sure if it’s the same source as before

Is this a general Orks discord or just one you're a part of? Haha I'd like an invite link if it's general.

It’s a public one from the Reddit. https://discord.gg/agDGePhX


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if that Goff trait is legit and Ghaz doesnt have a special one thats gonna be funny to see people's face when they finally bring that beast down and he just stands right back up lol

Formatting is kind of bad but that looks like a snakebite trait to me.

Thank you

If you cant advance and shoot those dakka weapons ill be mighty annoyed.

oddly enough thats all i care about. i dont want to lose my mobility like that. orks arent a stationary faction. And if i cant advance and shoot my boys shoota, then theres no fething way ill ever reach the 3rd shot from being within 9 inches with a group of shoota boys. The only way to get that close would be to advance. Unless you're in a vehicle.

hmm the monster hunterz strat is strange... i thought snaggaz had that build in?
Edit:
ok NVM they have +1 to hit build in... the strat is +1 to wound

RedNoak wrote:
hmm the monster hunterz strat is strange... i thought snaggaz had that build in?

They have +1 to hit against Monsters, not +1 to wound.

Beardedragon wrote:
If you cant advance and shoot those dakka weapons ill be mighty annoyed.

oddly enough thats all i care about. i dont want to lose my mobility like that. orks arent a stationary faction. And if i cant advance and shoot my boys shoota, then theres no fething way ill ever reach the 3rd shot from being within 9 inches with a group of shoota boys. The only way to get that close would be to advance. Unless you're in a vehicle.

It sounds like evil suns can help but losing that 1in on charge really hurts orks… I’m assuming if Dakka isn’t including initially on evil suns trait we can hopefully get it added in the what appears to be heavily Needed faq.

I really don’t understand these blanket nerfs I can only assume since orks was doing okay in tournaments several months ago they felt the need to tone down the codex stronger elements. And they did significant changes in the book but it’s like they broke a lot without fixing much… I hope the leaked previews was just an older playtest and some fixes happened since because this isn’t what people wanted.

Madjob wrote:

They have +1 to hit against Monsters, not +1 to wound.

yeah saw that^^

hahahaha the killa klaw is now just d3 ???? well no -1 to hit... but still. Someone here predicted that in a rage... but even he said it would be at least d2

RedNoak wrote:

Madjob wrote:

They have +1 to hit against Monsters, not +1 to wound.

yeah saw that^^

hahahaha the killa klaw is now just d3 ???? well no -1 to hit... but still. Someone here predicted that in a rage... but even he said it would be at least d2

Also AP-4, which isn't bad, but a far cry from re-rolling to wound. Doesn't seem like the other relics really made up for it though, at least offensively.

pretty sure the killaklaw still does flat 3 damage. All the weapon profiles they show in that post show Dx.

.....wow dedshiny shoota is D2....wtf lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty sure the killaklaw still does flat 3 damage. All the weapon profiles they show in that post show Dx.

.....wow dedshiny shoota is D2....wtf lol

yeah, that really stood out for me, they mixed it with the other shoota relic upgrade and made it AP-1 and D2. You might actually consider it now lol.

I think I just saw the best comment on the Warhammer 40k Facebook page.

"Those previews feels like watching the Titanic sink.
Did you finally managed to make the worst 9th codex?!"

Updated the Imgur post to include evil sunz rumors https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

SemperMortis wrote:
I think I just saw the best comment on the Warhammer 40k Facebook page.

"Those previews feels like watching the Titanic sink.
Did you finally managed to make the worst 9th codex?!"

Wait, how is the new Ork codex bad?
I understand the opposition to DDD, but I don't see how that's a deal breaker.
If anything, I'm more at odds with the Beast Snagga boys.
For starters, they are one consonant change from being something unfortunate, and also I don't like the squig hog riders. They don't really do anything for me, which is a pity because conceptually they should be cool.

 Dendarien wrote:
Updated the Imgur post to include evil sunz rumors https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Rezmekka'z redder armor was only ever a gimmick and kind of fun. now its just....crap.

 Dendarien wrote:
Updated the Imgur post to include evil sunz rumors https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Couldn't fit the warlord trait in the screen cap or did they not include it?

Otherwise, doesn't seem like anything is going well for Evil Sunz in this book.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I think I just saw the best comment on the Warhammer 40k Facebook page.

"Those previews feels like watching the Titanic sink.
Did you finally managed to make the worst 9th codex?!"

Wait, how is the new Ork codex bad?
I understand the opposition to DDD, but I don't see how that's a deal breaker.
If anything, I'm more at odds with the Beast Snagga boys.
For starters, they are one consonant change from being something unfortunate, and also I don't like the squig hog riders. They don't really do anything for me, which is a pity because conceptually they should be cool.

Based on the previews our shooting just got noticeably worse.
Our Snakebites kulture is garbage.

Based on the leaks that Dendarien is showing us (You are awesome btw!) it looks like boyz get hit with a price increase, our other kultures mostly suck, our relics are meh at best and our special kulture strats are mostly bad. I'm really not seeing much to be positive about right now.

SemperMortis wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I think I just saw the best comment on the Warhammer 40k Facebook page.

"Those previews feels like watching the Titanic sink.
Did you finally managed to make the worst 9th codex?!"

Wait, how is the new Ork codex bad?
I understand the opposition to DDD, but I don't see how that's a deal breaker.
If anything, I'm more at odds with the Beast Snagga boys.
For starters, they are one consonant change from being something unfortunate, and also I don't like the squig hog riders. They don't really do anything for me, which is a pity because conceptually they should be cool.

Based on the previews our shooting just got noticeably worse.
Our Snakebites kulture is garbage.

Based on the leaks that Dendarien is showing us (You are awesome btw!) it looks like boyz get hit with a price increase, our other kultures mostly suck, our relics are meh at best and our special kulture strats are mostly bad. I'm really not seeing much to be positive about right now.

Yeah, true the kultures do seem pretty bad. I thought the Snakebites Kulture was filthy at first, but now that I think of it I'm not really sure.
I don't think the relics are too bad but I'm not feeling inspired by the warlord traits. The Bad Moons trait is kind of useful but it's not buff which is what the game is built around now.

So I know these are speculations, but what concerns me with the leaks is I havent seen anything about Freebooterz

SemperMortis wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
Updated the Imgur post to include evil sunz rumors https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Rezmekka'z redder armor was only ever a gimmick and kind of fun. now its just....crap.

What? It gives us an aura Judiciar ability now.

Well, I say aura because it'll obvs go on a trike and that big ass base will hit multiple gak and block heroic interventions from fighting.

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
Updated the Imgur post to include evil sunz rumors https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Rezmekka'z redder armor was only ever a gimmick and kind of fun. now its just....crap.

What? It gives us an aura Judiciar ability now.

Well, I say aura because it'll obvs go on a trike and that big ass base will hit multiple gak and block heroic interventions from fighting.

I'm reading it like its a buff to a single model not an aura.

SemperMortis wrote:

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
Updated the Imgur post to include evil sunz rumors https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Rezmekka'z redder armor was only ever a gimmick and kind of fun. now its just....crap.

What? It gives us an aura Judiciar ability now.

Well, I say aura because it'll obvs go on a trike and that big ass base will hit multiple gak and block heroic interventions from fighting.

I'm reading it like its a buff to a single model not an aura.

Yeah, that's why I edited it. Slide that big ass trike base into multiple things and it'll shut stuff down. We shall see though.

Making one model fight last is still a rather powerful ability, especially against those PITA drukhari.

Remember fight last mechanics conflict with charging now.
If they charge you and you make them fight last it means you both fight "normally" now, and you go first being the 2nd player.

That is, unless they didnt mention its on the charge. The wording in that post is literally its a passive aura like Silent King has. If thats how it is then charging anywhere near a vehicle with that paintjob is a bad idea, da orks will swing first (or at least one of them will)

 Jidmah wrote:
Making one model fight last is still a rather powerful ability, especially against those PITA drukhari.

It's -any- model within engagement range. So if you run a trike into 3 Redemptors for instance - they can't interrupt/be chosen until everything else has. Any character heroically intervening into you gets the same treatment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I love how it looks like we're all reading this 3 different ways lol.

This is why we need a review drop.

 Jidmah wrote:
Making one model fight last is still a rather powerful ability, especially against those PITA drukhari.

Red makka will be an auto take if you run Suns.

The issue I see is that it seems to be vehicle only, meaning you probably have to take a wartrike.

Madjob wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
Updated the Imgur post to include evil sunz rumors https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv

Couldn't fit the warlord trait in the screen cap or did they not include it?

Otherwise, doesn't seem like anything is going well for Evil Sunz in this book.

These are just screenshots of screenshots - sorry it's all I could get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hoofy wrote:
So I know these are speculations, but what concerns me with the leaks is I havent seen anything about Freebooterz

This is a salty rumor, but people are saying FB is gone as a kultur. What that means for the gitz I don't know.

Don't shoot the squig 'ere, just cross posting what I'm seeing in the /r/Orks Discord

To be fair freebooters wasn’t really supposed to be a clan… it’s like clanless group like deathwatch… it’s easier for them to just make freebooters have whatever kultur thier detachment has… I’m honestly hoping grots and freebooters are able to all share the kultur now that is the only way to partially redeem these rumors.

gungo wrote:
To be fair freebooters wasn’t really supposed to be a clan… it’s like clanless group like deathwatch… it’s easier for them to just make freebooters have whatever kultur thier detachment has… I’m honestly hoping grots and freebooters are able to all share the kultur now that is the only way to partially redeem these rumors.

My feeling is flash gitz will just simply not disrupt detachment abilities and that's it.

This is a salty rumor, but people are saying FB is gone as a kultur. What that means for the gitz I don't know.

Don't shoot the squig 'ere, just cross posting what I'm seeing in the /r/Orks Discord

Wow, that would truly be dickish of GW. Get people all excited by introducing them last edition. Got me all sorts of pirate ork heads and everything, only to remove them an edition later?

Im kinda losing hope the longer this goes on.... is the new ork codex really just a dumpster fire? because in that case I will just stick to 8th edition

pepi55 wrote:
Im kinda losing hope the longer this goes on.... is the new ork codex really just a dumpster fire? because in that case I will just stick to 8th edition

We literally don't know, guy. Rumor mill is running on fumes.

Dearth of quality leaks and most of what has come out has literally been on Warhammer community.

 TedNugent wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
Im kinda losing hope the longer this goes on.... is the new ork codex really just a dumpster fire? because in that case I will just stick to 8th edition

We literally don't know, guy. Rumor mill is running on fumes.

Dearth of quality leaks and most of what has come out has literally been on Warhammer community.

Thats reassuring. I dont see anything positive so far though.. im really wondering how this can still have a good end so to say.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty sure the killaklaw still does flat 3 damage. All the weapon profiles they show in that post show Dx.

.....wow dedshiny shoota is D2....wtf lol

........killa klaw lost its reroll wound ability though :(

Yeah, this is looking like GW's first major 9th ed codex goof. There might be a specific winning wombo combo list or archetype that can win tournies, but as far as list diversity and internal balance, I feel like it's an uphill battle right now for the codex to be seen as an overall improvement over the old one.

 kingbbobb wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty sure the killaklaw still does flat 3 damage. All the weapon profiles they show in that post show Dx.

.....wow dedshiny shoota is D2....wtf lol

........killa klaw lost its reroll wound ability though :(

Unconfirmed - dude is paraphrasing stats.

 kingbbobb wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty sure the killaklaw still does flat 3 damage. All the weapon profiles they show in that post show Dx.

.....wow dedshiny shoota is D2....wtf lol

........killa klaw lost its reroll wound ability though :(

somehow i never even noticed it had a reroll to wound. Did that get faq'd in and i missed it? i swear the codex was just a -- on the rules part of the klaw.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, this is looking like GW's first major 9th ed codex goof. There might be a specific winning wombo combo list or archetype that can win tournies, but as far as list diversity and internal balance, I feel like it's an uphill battle right now for the codex to be seen as an overall improvement over the old one.

I personally can't wait to field 60 boyz for 570 pts only to have them all wiped in a single shooting phase.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty sure the killaklaw still does flat 3 damage. All the weapon profiles they show in that post show Dx.

.....wow dedshiny shoota is D2....wtf lol

........killa klaw lost its reroll wound ability though :(

somehow i never even noticed it had a reroll to wound. Did that get faq'd in and i missed it? i swear the codex was just a -- on the rules part of the klaw.

Been there the whole time lol. It's why Brutal but Kunnin is so good. 2s rerolling to hit on the charge, and usually 2s rerolling to wound on the wound. Damage 4 on the charge with burtal but kunnin.

BDBurrow wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, this is looking like GW's first major 9th ed codex goof. There might be a specific winning wombo combo list or archetype that can win tournies, but as far as list diversity and internal balance, I feel like it's an uphill battle right now for the codex to be seen as an overall improvement over the old one.

I personally can't wait to field 60 boyz for 570 pts only to have them all wiped in a single shooting phase.

Maybe they will maybe they wont?
So grots are coming back in a big way if they stay close to their current points costs. I have 60 but am thinking about adding another 30 but I want to see the codex first. Maybe I can trade off a few mek guns for them.

i fail to see how grots are coming back in a big way.
Yeah, theyre T3 now. Big whoop theyre still S2, 1W 6+ sv, with a 12" S3 pistol. Even if Zhog buffs them they arent even a third as useful as a guardsman and thats pretty sad.
Im still shocked theres no new gretchin unit because of Zhog btw. I was fully expecting a Grot Sniper squad because thats really what he would want to buff.

Unfortunately, I think all of this has been accurate thus far...

https://imgur.com/a/927YwRE

Devil in the details it seems

i love how a local marine player is trying to convince me that the new snakebite kulture is obscenely broken.
I asked him to tell me what he normally brings. All S4/5 or plasma/melta, which is S8, with a few rare sprinkles of S6/7.

I go "Cool, so those ~200 pts of stuff actually care about my entire army rule. The rest is totally unaffected. How is it amazing again?" aaaand silence.

Ignoring AP1 is far more potent than the transork rule unless an army somewhere starts spamming S6/7 suddenly.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i fail to see how grots are coming back in a big way.
Yeah, theyre T3 now. Big whoop theyre still S2, 1W 6+ sv, with a 12" S3 pistol. Even if Zhog buffs them they arent even a third as useful as a guardsman and thats pretty sad.
Im still shocked theres no new gretchin unit because of Zhog btw. I was fully expecting a Grot Sniper squad because thats really what he would want to buff.

If you couldn't tell that was partly humor. But I was also reflecting on my last game again AM where they fielded 120 infantry and I just could not kill enough of them to matter. 'So I was thinking Grots could be the new green tide method of play for Orks, they just hold down the table and objectives so I don't have to field as many Boys that will cost tooo many points and just get nuked in a turn or two but then I am not a competitive Ork player anymore.
I'm mostly thinking if I do use a bunch of grots again to field them in mobs of 10 to hopefully frustrate my opponents game plans.
I just need a lot of troop slots for that. Might shift to Grots and storm boys or something. Still need to see how the storm boys shake out.

Grots will legit become good screens if they get the snakebite culture.

But no, Skitari probably shred us hard. I think our main answer will be to go mech until they get horribly nerfed.

I am feeling bullish on our DE matchup, though.

So if grots get kultur, then snakebite grots become playable and everything else goes by the wayside. I fail to see how this is a good thing?

BDBurrow wrote:
So if grots get kultur, then snakebite grots become playable and everything else goes by the wayside. I fail to see how this is a good thing?

Yeah I'm definitely not here to push 300 grots around the table. Not that it matters, grots won't have the mini transhuman trait.

BDBurrow wrote:
So if grots get kultur, then snakebite grots become playable and everything else goes by the wayside. I fail to see how this is a good thing?

New codex, new strats. Not much else to say.

Snakebites is obviously being pushed here, welcome our new green overlords.

oh if they remove that dumbness of grots not getting kultures then yeah snakebite grots are hilarious.
Virtually nothing will wound them better than 4s because who the gak is going to fire an S8+ gun at them lol. About all that would get by it commonly is S8 "sweeping" attacks from big things the grots are tarpitting.

I agree I don't look forward to pushing that many Grots around no matter how "good" they might be or not.
But I feel, for myself I guess, there might be a right number to field to really get some work out of them. Might open up points for a fair amount of the good stuff. Some way to eat my cake and have it too.

Yeah grots won’t be getting transhuman lol. I think I might not buy the 155 euro box after all. These feels way too much like 7th Ed codex all over again. All these leaks point to GW dropping the ball again on us orks. It is strange though, all 9th codexes were really well designed so far (sisters lacking flavor though).

Please someone say something positive about this horror show unraveling before our eyes. I am sorry but I have nothing, and I don’t want to chime in on all the doom and gloom :(

Something good about snakebite kulture that I have not read so far : if you get a minus 1 to toughness, then you can be “unaffected “ by it if a strength 5/weapon hits y’a.
I know, I am holding on to whatever I find, while sliding down the slope of despair

Maybe t5 is just too darn good and they said nuke em to the ground to make up for it lol.

I Warned you. I warned you all! T5 was a mistake! A mistake I say!!!!

Keramory wrote:
Maybe t5 is just too darn good and they said nuke em to the ground to make up for it lol.

I Warned you. I warned you all! T5 was a mistake! A mistake I say!!!!

That is the most logical explanation. I mean why else would we be getting all that trash tier stuff. The strats are just awful, the relics ok at best, the wL traits are really bad… I mean maaan :(…

orks weren’t dominating anything were they ? Or did I miss something these past few months ??!!!

The ramshackle rules are pretty dope. But I'm guessing it comes with a hefty price hike for all our vehicles.

oh i guarantee GW thinks T5 is ridiculous, same for T8 as everything thats T8 is super duper expensive (except wagon with 'ard case but it sacrifices quite a bit to do that).
In theory, it makes a big deal because when you look at BASIC WEAPONS being T5 is huge and being T8 is even huger (wounding on 5s from common weapons and wounding on 6 from common weapons)
In practice, people dont bring half their army as generic troopers that use those guns. They bring like a quarter to a third, the rest are more elite stuff that spams better guns or swings bigger axes. Which devalues that toughness a bit.

If S8 wasnt so freaking common (mostly Plasma staying at S7 if overcharged would do it) then this Transork rule would be really rude, basically only PK or Tank-grade weapons ignore it which is truly thematic. Unfortunately S8 is not rare. At all.

side comment: i wonder how messed up this game would be if they actually forced you to do that though....generic troopers HAVE to be like 70% your army, say the detachment was 1-3HQ, 4 minimum troops, 0-2 anything else and no way to bring anything else. Oh who am i kidding it'd be even worse because some armies (marines) would have like 15 troops suddenly while everyone else has like 3.

BDBurrow wrote:
The ramshackle rules are pretty dope. But I'm guessing it comes with a hefty price hike for all our vehicles.

Not necessarily. I heard from a reliable but tight-lipped source that many units (including the new Squighogs, don’t know what others) were priced rather generously during the testing phase. If they weren’t changed much after that it could be our gain from all these changes. As none of these lamentative and pretty precise rumours we’ve seen have really talked much about pricing (which I believe they would’ve if it was also crooked), I wouldn’t place my bets yet.

Can we expect Goonhammer reviews as early as Sunday?

To be fair 24in shootas does make the 12in shoota half range +1 shot better but I’d still rather have reroll 1s and spam KMB or equivilant. I know the rumor says reroll 1s in melee aura is the warboss aura but I hope it’s reroll all 1s to hit.

I looked at the WHC entries again and tbh, its not that bad so far... yes, its mostly nerfs so far, but I think they will find a way to make orks good.

pepi55 wrote:
I looked at the WHC entries again and tbh, its not that bad so far... yes, its mostly nerfs so far, but I think they will find a way to make orks good.

My main concern is for list diversity, because I can see two types of min-max tourney lists but other than that if they keep stuff like lootas/burnas as is and a bunch of other units that need some loving, it'll be a very poor codex overall.

 Grimskul wrote:

pepi55 wrote:
I looked at the WHC entries again and tbh, its not that bad so far... yes, its mostly nerfs so far, but I think they will find a way to make orks good.

My main concern is for list diversity, because I can see two types of min-max tourney lists but other than that if they keep stuff like lootas/burnas as is and a bunch of other units that need some loving, it'll be a very poor codex overall.

This is my feeling too. Would gladly take a B tier codex with plenty of build diversity instead of 1 or 2 lists that push into A tier and the rest of the book is trash.

Yeah but then again we have only seen about as much of the new codex as two types of min max builds if you get what i mean?

We haven't seen anything besides our troops and some of the new models yet. Maybe our classic bosses will be able to stack special damage auras or something else that makes everything lethal..

Kinda related, but i suspect that all these nerfs to clan traits might be because grots do finally benefit from them?

i mean if were talking highly competitve lists what army has more than 2 options...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i mean if were talking highly competitve lists what army has more than 2 options...

Fair point. I also just had a thought.

Will Beast Snaggas be.... beasts? And thus able to go through walls?

I think it’s more they snag the beasts not ride them.

Stats/rules for the new Squig character.

wait wtf one attack from his squig if it rolls a 6 to wound it does 4 MW? jebus....

Shame it's unmodified. I'm assuming he'll be able to use the second portion of the snakebites trait for the 1+ to wound being on a squig and all. Cause at T7 he can't use the Transork except in a few niche instances.

Wonder what his own weapon profile is? He looks damn nasty.

eh all of that stuff is unmodified now. For some reason admech dragoons scared the piss out of them doing 4+ exploding melee...even though they were only "good" and nowhere near "obscenely good" lol

pepi55 wrote:
Yeah but then again we have only seen about as much of the new codex as two types of min max builds if you get what i mean?

We haven't seen anything besides our troops and some of the new models yet. Maybe our classic bosses will be able to stack special damage auras or something else that makes everything lethal..

Kinda related, but i suspect that all these nerfs to clan traits might be because grots do finally benefit from them?

Well, here's the thing. Most of this has been proven correct so far, right?

https://imgur.com/a/ItWAwVv
https://imgur.com/a/927YwRE

So, that would indicate that warbosses get a +1 to hit in melee aura. Snagga bosses (including named SC) get +1 to hit aura for snaggas.

Pretty much anything outside of these leaks or what's on WHC seems to be pure speculation. We've actually got a ton of information purely because WHC keeps confirming what's in these posts.

My theory is that they’re nerfing/removing rules because they’re buffing unit stats to make Orks simpler and more about pure unit strength.

At least, it’s the only positive theory I have atm lol.

Has been the "purity" bonus for orks been revealed? For not mixing clans

Not yet no, as far as I know. We haven’t heard much about non-klan army wide rules besides DDD being taken away.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
My theory is that they’re nerfing/removing rules because they’re buffing unit stats to make Orks simpler and more about pure unit strength.

At least, it’s the only positive theory I have atm lol.

Not completely impossible - the datasheets we have seem rather powerful.

We are also missing what most support characters do (they have clearly changed as much as DG's characters were), most stratagems are unknown and for kustom jobs and psychic powers the leaks only state that they suck, but not what exactly is there.

We also don't know which of the other buggy, mek guns and battlewagon weapons have changed in what way (assault, dakka, heavy, new profiles?), whether nauts got some extras for their LOW status (despite still being the suck, monoliths improved significantly), and we don't know whether we get the ability to buy extra warlord traits, which would be significant buff to fighting characters.

So there is still a lot of unknown stuff that could even the scales.

That said, my mind ins flip-flopping between "this is 7th all over again" and "this is DG codex all over again". I simply refuse to let myself dragged down by all this until I can actually play the codex once or twice.

One thing i hadnt thought about though is, that we havent seen any of the new Ork rules yet. Like the over all rules like ere we go and dakka dakka.

So if dakka dakka is gone, maybe its replaced with something else? It would seem very weak that orks only have 1 faction ability and thats a reroll to charges, and it will probably be nerfed because why not, to rerolling both die.

So there might be some more rules we havent seen in that regard. I still hope that one of the rules is the ability to advance and shooting dakka weapons.

Also i feel like the +1 to hit against vehicles with beast snaggas is a weird thing. Hitting isnt the ork problem and one of the beast snaggas seem to be ranged specialized in their entirety. Looking at the squig hog boy, he would hit with strength 6. Most vehicles that are worth going for has toughness 7 or up so i will be wounding on a +5.

Meaning, i wouldnt use, i think, snagga boys for hunting down vehicles because of their low strength. the +1 to hit should have been a +1 to wound instead. at least that way your snagga boys would be able to hunt down vehicles decently.

I understand theres a stratagem that lets you add 1 to wounds but i really feel like this should have just been a beast snagga ability, that they gain +1 to wound, and not +1 to hit. If they are designed to hunt down vehicles, still wounding them on a +5 unless i throw 2 CP out the window, seem stupid. If you need to spend CP to use them for what they are intended, then they dont do their intended role well. Just remove the +1 to hit and add +1 to wound as standard. Then i would be happy and could thus hunt down vehicles and wound them on a +4.

You cant really brag about taking down monsters and vehicles when you only wound on a +5...

Ok but guys, I think the real deal is the mekboi workshop. Think about it... The only unit of which we still havent heard anything and I bet they save the best for last.

Mekboy workshop will be the new top tier pick and it will carry the entire army

pepi55 wrote:
Ok but guys, I think the real deal is the mekboi workshop. Think about it... The only unit of which we still havent heard anything and I bet they save the best for last.

Mekboy workshop will be the new top tier pick and it will carry the entire army

Nice try, but they have already announced a replacement

i just hope that the koptas are a good kit and usefull

Well, they look good, they are one of the few units which can make use of the new rokkit profile and there is a KMB/big bomb combo on one of them.

Everything else is up to points.

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, they look good, they are one of the few units which can make use of the new rokkit profile and there is a KMB/big bomb combo on one of them.

Everything else is up to points.

Well, maybee it is time for me to brush away dust from my 2 dakkajets and the burnabomba, finally paint the trucks get me some new boys with shootas and reinvigorate /revive my air waaagh mekband...
I rekon from the initial looks that the weaponry will be somewhat easy to magnetise on the koptas aswell...

 Jidmah wrote:
That said, my mind ins flip-flopping between "this is 7th all over again" and "this is DG codex all over again". I simply refuse to let myself dragged down by all this until I can actually play the codex once or twice.

Hold strong brother, rumour around the tracks is Ork codex is the final busted codex. Buggies are the business, apparently. Output from scrapjets has already been increased, so long as you're not advancing. They were already the most shooty of the lot. And lets be serious, T5 9ppm wounds on boys is already enough to get excited about. -1 AP as well? I don't need stratagems, that's already enough for me to know we're on the way up.

 hollow one wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
That said, my mind ins flip-flopping between "this is 7th all over again" and "this is DG codex all over again". I simply refuse to let myself dragged down by all this until I can actually play the codex once or twice.

Hold strong brother, rumour around the tracks is Ork codex is the final busted codex. Buggies are the business, apparently. Output from scrapjets has already been increased, so long as you're not advancing. They were already the most shooty of the lot. And lets be serious, T5 9ppm wounds on boys is already enough to get excited about. -1 AP as well? I don't need stratagems, that's already enough for me to know we're on the way up.

Your forgot to mention scrapjets, like all buggies, are rumored to get the ramshackle rule, thus -1 damage against "strengh 7 or lower weapons".

Damn I haven't heard that one, well that's just unnecessarily good.

True, scrapjets look stupid good now. Extra shoots on the rokkit cannon, possible extra shots on the wing missle, extra shots on the four big shootas...

The buggy I'm most curious about is the squigbuggy though. I'm almost done painting mine

 hollow one wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
That said, my mind ins flip-flopping between "this is 7th all over again" and "this is DG codex all over again". I simply refuse to let myself dragged down by all this until I can actually play the codex once or twice.

Hold strong brother, rumour around the tracks is Ork codex is the final busted codex. Buggies are the business, apparently. Output from scrapjets has already been increased, so long as you're not advancing. They were already the most shooty of the lot. And lets be serious, T5 9ppm wounds on boys is already enough to get excited about. -1 AP as well? I don't need stratagems, that's already enough for me to know we're on the way up.

If you factor in the kff changes and the rumored changes to a inch of stuff we’re going to be worse off than before lol. The t5 and kff nerf actually just cancel each other out lol.

Not being tethered to a KFF tax in both mobility and points, while still getting comparable durability is probably a buff overall mate. We're not a death-ball army.

In most of my recent games I only brought a KFF because the morkanaut happens to have one, not because I needed it.

We don’t even know if big Mek w kff exists anymore severely limiting the kff now regardless.

But the main reason people didn’t take the kff last edition was deathskulls made it partially irrelevant. That sounds like it’s gone and given to beast snaggas instead.

So, i haven't been posting here since forever. But i kept playing, i went 2-1 and 1-2 at 2 RTT this month with a kustom Stompa and I've been trying EVERYTHING to make Orks work. Honestly we are way behind the curve, trying to be competitive.

I believe 100% of the rumors and I am beyond disbelief that they are nerfing the codex in order to boost the new junk that I, personally, dislike so very much (not wuzrog and mad hair man, they are cool).

This being said, I think we have to listen to the top players and NOT GET ATTACHED. Something will pop up. Some good build will occur, 99% most likely involving the new aos+40k stuff.

Also this is the last straw for me and I will not give GW one single ¢ and print only miniatures from now on. I own 10k of Orks and I be been playing since 2nd Ed, I'm tired to cycle thru those phases of bad bad gameplay, just because they need my money. I will play the game, but on my own way. I already own 6 squigs rider, so yeah .

At last, i believe goffs snaggaz and squigs are very strong, we need to check for points still, but I believe when they say 11 for snaggaz and 35 for squigs. So durability, damage and mobility is kind of better. The problem is the firebase, since right now, we are not top of the foodchain and the new DDD vs assault rules kind of hurt us.

Let's everybody hope for cheap points and some shenanigans for the shooting phase.
Today is time for veichles, which probably means ramshackle for most veichles (the worst duty eternal rule kind, -1D to minimum 1 vs =<S7)

Tomorrow we LL get a full review from guerilla tactics, most likely and Sunday some photocopy should pop around. Untill than, stay strong and keep screaming at the screen. Rage makes us stronger.


*Cue the violins from the titanic*>

wait what? where is it written that the new ramshackle is not a, on a 6 you only take 1 damage? to be a -1 damage if you are hit with strength 7 and below?

Ive missed that info completely.


My last 7 battles have been victories though, with my goff horde with mek gunz mixed with 15 tankbustas from a bad moon patrol ive da jumped forward to wreak havoc. Seemed to do very well against everything really.

Hopefully that combo remains something i can use.

Haven't seen the new powers, but they might be kind of junk. Aaaand showing off i think is just +1 to W. Consider everything you know is dead. For good

Also my meta is kind hypercompetetive, so we don't fare good up here

 Emicrania wrote:
Haven't seen the new powers, but they might be kind of junk. Aaaand showing off i think is just +1 to W. Consider everything you know is dead. For good

Also my meta is kind hypercompetetive, so we don't fare good up here

well true we've been in the higher end of middle. But given all the factions available, not all factions will be top tier.

Competitively we are at the lowest since before the codex dropped in 8th at 39%.

We REALLY need a boost.

That might be true for one-trick-ponies like harlequins or custodes, but there is no reason for a faction as varied as orks to not be within the 45-55% spectrum.

It seems to me goff snaggas are looking decent as are a few buggies.

But unless I see something that fixes the issue large units are a detriment now that mob rule is gone.. units of 10 is about is far as I’d go and I’ll probably only do that for goff beast snagga troops.

I don’t think the codex will be useless but there is a few issues that really need to be feedback on the faq. As they severely limit orks movement while doubling down on melee. I can not stress enough how bad that is for us.
1) allow Dakka weapons to have assault wpn movement rules
2) tankbustas need to ignore movement penalties w heavy
3) allow reroll 1 or both dice for charges
4) allowing buggies and Mek gun units to split after deployment
5) I’d also recommend the +1 to hit melee veh/mon on beast snaggas be changed to +1 to wound since most orks already hit in melee in 2-3 and it’s redundant with +1 hit aura on warboss… I much prefer reroll 1 to all hits aura on warboss But either change would work. Heck nob with waaagh banner is +1 to hit melee!! How many stacking +1 to hits do we need it’s redundant like the devs paid no attention to what they were doing!
6) I’d really like to see adv and charge on both turns of waaagh. And for evil suns to get +1 to charge roll again!

 Emicrania wrote:
So, i haven't been posting here since forever. But i kept playing, i went 2-1 and 1-2 at 2 RTT this month with a kustom Stompa and I've been trying EVERYTHING to make Orks work. Honestly we are way behind the curve, trying to be competitive.

I believe 100% of the rumors and I am beyond disbelief that they are nerfing the codex in order to boost the new junk that I, personally, dislike so very much (not wuzrog and mad hair man, they are cool).

This being said, I think we have to listen to the top players and NOT GET ATTACHED. Something will pop up. Some good build will occur, 99% most likely involving the new aos+40k stuff.

Also this is the last straw for me and I will not give GW one single ¢ and print only miniatures from now on. I own 10k of Orks and I be been playing since 2nd Ed, I'm tired to cycle thru those phases of bad bad gameplay, just because they need my money. I will play the game, but on my own way. I already own 6 squigs rider, so yeah .

At last, i believe goffs snaggaz and squigs are very strong, we need to check for points still, but I believe when they say 11 for snaggaz and 35 for squigs. So durability, damage and mobility is kind of better. The problem is the firebase, since right now, we are not top of the foodchain and the new DDD vs assault rules kind of hurt us.

Let's everybody hope for cheap points and some shenanigans for the shooting phase.
Today is time for veichles, which probably means ramshackle for most veichles (the worst duty eternal rule kind, -1D to minimum 1 vs =<S7)

Tomorrow we LL get a full review from guerilla tactics, most likely and Sunday some photocopy should pop around. Untill than, stay strong and keep screaming at the screen. Rage makes us stronger.


*Cue the violins from the titanic*>

Maybe time for a break from the game? As you know being a veteran player basing happiness around waiting for rules is a fools errand. You never know though, it might turn out alright.

gungo wrote:
We don’t even know if big Mek w kff exists anymore severely limiting the kff now regardless.

But the main reason people didn’t take the kff last edition was deathskulls made it partially irrelevant. That sounds like it’s gone and given to beast snaggas instead.

regular kff ork big mek is not sold anymore, big mek in mega armor with kff is still an option in the meganobz box. I am hoping they remake the kff bg mek in plastic like the ssag but maybe since the sold so many in 4th and 5th everybody has one they are not incentivised by possible sales

With these leaks I start being a bit concerned about orks durability. Getting +1T was supposed to make orks tougher but if KFF is reduced to 6++ and light vehicles/walkers don't act as single units once deployed the army seems way less resilient now.

Single units firing a few melta shots could now wipe entire squadrons.

Infantry and biker/cavalry models should do fine, but vehicles need some way to reduce/prevent damage now. Last thing I want is another set of rules that pushes for greentides.

My point is I think the crutch of the kff big Mek is gone from the rules.
U got the Morkanaut, wazbom and big Mek in mega armor.. that’s it
There is essentially no easy way to include it anymore. And the only way to get mass invuls is with beast snaggas since it’s also been removed from deathskulls.

soo.. you were right. new ramshackle gives -1 damage when not using strength 8 and above weapons.

Which affects mek gunz and killa kanz too. And as you said, gorkanauts and morkanauts are now lord of war.. with 24 wounds.

But the stompa seemingly goes down to 675 points

 Blackie wrote:
With these leaks I start being a bit concerned about orks durability. Getting +1T was supposed to make orks tougher but if KFF is reduced to 6++ and light vehicles/walkers don't act as single units once deployed the army seems way less resilient now.

Single units firing a few melta shots could now wipe entire squadrons.

Infantry and biker/cavalry models should do fine, but vehicles need some way to reduce/prevent damage now. Last thing I want is another set of rules that pushes for greentides.

Greentide is dead… no unending green tide strat, no +1 atk on 20+ models, no mob rule and turning breaking heads into a strat… there is zero incentive to use greentide and large mobs are a severe detriment.

Goff beast snaggas are your durability. They have 6++ again, they have +1 toughness and they have str6 on charge with exploding 6s with additional hits… hopefully these are troops. I still want to see the new painboss rules to see if he adds anything better then a 6+ fnp.
I’m more concerned with moving buggies in groups they are so huge it’s hard to keep them in cohesion..

Gorkanauts and Morkanauts confirmed LOW

Honest question, how many sub-8S weapons are multi damage?

Wait, how do we know there isn’t going to be rules on boyz for extra attacks or strats for it?

New kommandos got more expensive AND they no longer have native deep strike. Not sure how I feel about this. Stormboyz might replace them if they still have their basic deep strike move.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait, how do we know there isn’t going to be rules on boyz for extra attacks or strats for it?

Based on the leaked discord and screenshots which have all been confirmed true with every new community article..

My entire army just got that ramshackle rule.... and it would have saved me during the tournament I was just in. I like it. Suck on that Drukhari flamer POS.

 Grimskul wrote:


New kommandos got more expensive AND they no longer have native deep strike. Not sure how I feel about this. Stormboyz might replace them if they still have their basic deep strike move.

Lol they had 1 role… late game cheap Objective grabber.. however thier loadout is completely changing so we will see. Interested to see if zagstruk or snikrot changed as well.

 Lysit wrote:
Gorkanauts and Morkanauts confirmed LOW

Yeaaaaah, the 6 wound boost isn't good enough when we miss out of Klan traits (I guess the only good thing is that our klan traits kinda suck now for them barring maybe DS, so it's not THAT bad) and Ramshackle is basically irrelevant for them since you'd be shooting S8+ weapons at these guys anyways. Wonder if they buffed up the KMZ for the Morkanaut. Throw in the lack of a good invuln from the KFF nerf and I'm not sure what GW was thinking after the whole Monolith debacle.

Man. Seriously. They nerfed EVERYTHING.

gungo wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait, how do we know there isn’t going to be rules on boyz for extra attacks or strats for it?

Based on the leaked discord and screenshots which have all been confirmed true with every new community article..

I don’t think they’ve mentioned special rules or strats. They’ve just mentioned some changes and the sub faction specific stuff. We don’t really know anything about the majority of the units, or our strats yet.

gungo wrote:

Greentide is dead… no unending green tide strat, no +1 atk on 20+ models, no mob rule and turning breaking heads into a strat… there is zero incentive to use greentide and large mobs are a severe detriment.

For greentides I mean lists made mostly of infantries. It doesn't matter if those lists are based on 4x30, 6x20 boyz or 4x20 boyz and 2x10+ snaggas, plus the scoring MSU specialists, that's the exact same thing. +1A is granted by the waaagh, which is actually a great buff since mobs of boyz tipycally don't fight more than a turn per game and now they can get the +1A even if they're not 20+. From what I see relying on lots of bodies seems to be the way GW wants us to play.

Nauts are LoWs, kustom jobs are gone or reduced to bland upgrades, no 5++ for vehicles, no more overkill on single cheap light vehicles. Of course we lack the whole picture but that's a significant amount of nerfs to vehicles and nothing to balance those nerfs except maybe a few "reduce damage by 1" here and there.

I'm not concerned about damage output, everything seems to be buffed, something even significantly, and I'm sure GW will give us powerful tools to enhance weapons/units, but the +1T across the army was supposed to be the first step in order to make the units more durable and armywise it doesn't look like that's what we'll actually get.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Lysit wrote:
Gorkanauts and Morkanauts confirmed LOW

Yeaaaaah, the 6 wound boost isn't good enough when we miss out of Klan traits (I guess the only good thing is that our klan traits kinda suck now for them barring maybe DS, so it's not THAT bad) and Ramshackle is basically irrelevant for them since you'd be shooting S8+ weapons at these guys anyways. Wonder if they buffed up the KMZ for the Morkanaut. Throw in the lack of a good invuln from the KFF nerf and I'm not sure what GW was thinking after the whole Monolith debacle.

somehow i am hoping the big mek kff and the wazboom blasta jet get better kff rules like a mega kff or something idk. probably will nto but you never know hell gw can call it a dakka kff for all i care as logn as its better than a 6++ problem with our big stompy robots already is lack of good saves means a couple of melta shots or las cannons delete them

gungo wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:


New kommandos got more expensive AND they no longer have native deep strike. Not sure how I feel about this. Stormboyz might replace them if they still have their basic deep strike move.

Lol they had 1 role… late game cheap Objective grabber.. however thier loadout is completely changing so we will see. Interested to see if zagstruk or snikrot changed as well.

GW wants to sell their shiny new toys, I think they'll think about a way to make them at least useful.

What a fething shitshow. For real. The worst part is that I'm 100% sure they are doing it for pushing the sale of those new obnoxious piece of junk.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Lysit wrote:
Gorkanauts and Morkanauts confirmed LOW

Yeaaaaah, the 6 wound boost isn't good enough when we miss out of Klan traits (I guess the only good thing is that our klan traits kinda suck now for them barring maybe DS, so it's not THAT bad) and Ramshackle is basically irrelevant for them since you'd be shooting S8+ weapons at these guys anyways. Wonder if they buffed up the KMZ for the Morkanaut. Throw in the lack of a good invuln from the KFF nerf and I'm not sure what GW was thinking after the whole Monolith debacle.

somehow i am hoping the big mek kff and the wazboom blasta jet get better kff rules like a mega kff or something idk. probably will nto but you never know hell gw can call it a dakka kff for all i care as logn as its better than a 6++ problem with our big stompy robots already is lack of good saves means a couple of melta shots or las cannons delete them

Yeah, melta and the new D3+3 weapons are what I'm concerned about. If they made Gorka/Morkanauts and Stompas T9, I'd give them some leniency since that would be an actual move in the right direction (most LoW's should head in that direction IMO, for real superheavies at least) but I reaaaally doubt it since GW have capped themselves at T8.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait, how do we know there isn’t going to be rules on boyz for extra attacks or strats for it?

Based on the leaked discord and screenshots which have all been confirmed true with every new community article..

I don’t think they’ve mentioned special rules or strats. They’ve just mentioned some changes and the sub faction specific stuff. We don’t really know anything about the majority of the units, or our strats yet.

Not all strats and rules but the class specific stuff and lack of UGT they did
But I get ya.. you have hope

gungo wrote:
Goff beast snaggas are your durability. They have 6++ again, they have +1 toughness and they have str6 on charge with exploding 6s with additional hits… hopefully these are troops. I still want to see the new painboss rules to see if he adds anything better then a 6+ fnp.
I’m more concerned with moving buggies in groups they are so huge it’s hard to keep them in cohesion..

Beast Snaggas have the same toughness as any other Ork.

Well looks like all the leaks were right so far. Here’s hoping for some diamonds in the squig gak or we are getting fethed 7 Ed style. Again.

Yes there will probably be a competitive build or two. I just wanted to get excited about using a variety of my old collection. We will probably have to play the skew game still.

On plus side 675 stompa is actually playable…
And you can still get klan rules in a lord of war detachment… not that I think any clan kulturs are worth it…
Killakans are legit and maybe dreadmobs
Especially if the fw big Mek named character still has his +1 hit aura that works on dreads… that’s a lot of rokkits
Doubly so if grot mobs works still…

I suppose the Nauts shifting over to LoW at least frees up another HS slot?

Quite tempted to lean right into LoWs now; grab another 'Naut and a FW Killtank.

24 wounds makes it the same as a Knight right? I assume though it won’t have a 4++ the same though, just a lol worthy 6++ from their incredible new KFF.

I was keen on getting one soon but I may not now. :/

Madjob wrote:

gungo wrote:
Goff beast snaggas are your durability. They have 6++ again, they have +1 toughness and they have str6 on charge with exploding 6s with additional hits… hopefully these are troops. I still want to see the new painboss rules to see if he adds anything better then a 6+ fnp.
I’m more concerned with moving buggies in groups they are so huge it’s hard to keep them in cohesion..

Beast Snaggas have the same toughness as any other Ork.

I mean from what we have now

gungo wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait, how do we know there isn’t going to be rules on boyz for extra attacks or strats for it?

Based on the leaked discord and screenshots which have all been confirmed true with every new community article..

I don’t think they’ve mentioned special rules or strats. They’ve just mentioned some changes and the sub faction specific stuff. We don’t really know anything about the majority of the units, or our strats yet.

Not all strats and rules but the class specific stuff and lack of UGT they did
But I get ya.. you have hope

Don’t take away my hope! I want to love my Orks this edition! The WAAAGH! must be heard!

BDBurrow wrote:
Honest question, how many sub-8S weapons are multi damage?

Not happy with budget duty eternal but autocannoms, non-suped up plasma, exocrenes, heavy bolters and the like.

Basically weapons made for anti-elites won't be acting like anti vehicle weapons.

I cannot quote any real math here, but I believe that the statistical average of a d6 is 3 vs 5 of 3+D3. This means all melta and equivalents are what, 75%? Deadlier? Without counting in rerolls aura and such?

+6W alone is 33% in survivability. So it's already 40% behind the powercreep. If than you count the KFF getting 17% worst, well this is all a pile of crap, eating another pile of crap.

 Nazrak wrote:
I suppose the Nauts shifting over to LoW at least frees up another HS slot?

Yeah, that's the very HS slot spared for those who wanted to field 4-6 Mek Gunz as now they need to use two slots instead of one .

 Emicrania wrote:
I cannot quote any real math here, but I believe that the statistical average of a d6 is 3 vs 5 of 3+D3. This means all melta and equivalents are what, 75%? Deadlier? Without counting in rerolls aura and such?

+6W alone is 33% in survivability. So it's already 40% behind the powercreep. If than you count the KFF getting 17% worst, well this is all a pile of crap, eating another pile of crap.

Average of d6 is 3.5. So it’s about a 40% improvement for any weapon that went from d6 to d3+3.

 Blackie wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I suppose the Nauts shifting over to LoW at least frees up another HS slot?

Yeah, that's the very HS slot spared for those who wanted to field 4-6 Mek Gunz as now they need to use two slots instead of one .

Maybe I'm desperately searching for silver linings here, but now I've got space for a Deff Dread. Always wanted to paint one of those.

Need to make room for your new wurrchariot in your Hs slot!!!

Damage 6 with single attack claw and 24 wounds, I must say Gorkanauts sound more than OK to me. It will depend if they stay the same cost (if they cost more than they do now, mayber not...)

I own three so I can field them in a SH detachment (losing 6 CP though...), and the rest of the points can go into 30*2 boyz and a speedboss (+ whatever other character needed). This won't win me any tournament, but it could be a midly good skew list (boyz stay cap objectives but don't get too exposed either)

 hollow one wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
That said, my mind ins flip-flopping between "this is 7th all over again" and "this is DG codex all over again". I simply refuse to let myself dragged down by all this until I can actually play the codex once or twice.

Hold strong brother, rumour around the tracks is Ork codex is the final busted codex. Buggies are the business, apparently. Output from scrapjets has already been increased, so long as you're not advancing. They were already the most shooty of the lot. And lets be serious, T5 9ppm wounds on boys is already enough to get excited about. -1 AP as well? I don't need stratagems, that's already enough for me to know we're on the way up.

Scrapjets go to 3D3 shots which is an average of 6 shots. thats 2 hits a turn. That is 1.33 wounds against T5 and above. This is the fething problem with players in general, but especially GW staff. They think "OMG! 3D3 SHOTS THAT IS A LOT!" and they are right, for a Space Marine. For someone who hits half as often its garbage. This is the equivalent of a 3 shot weapon for Marines.

As far as the big shoota "buff" at half range they gain 66% percent shots, honestly its an upgrade, but it started as a turd and all they did was polish it. And what happens when you polish a turd? At best, you get 20 shots now, that is enough to do 1.48 dmg on average to a Marine. IT DOESN'T EVEN GUARANTEE A DEAD MARINE!"

I'm doing my best to stay positive here but god GW fething sucks when it comes to Orkz.

gungo wrote:
To be fair 24in shootas does make the 12in shoota half range +1 shot better but I’d still rather have reroll 1s and spam KMB or equivilant. I know the rumor says reroll 1s in melee aura is the warboss aura but I hope it’s reroll all 1s to hit.

Bad Moonz prior at 18' range averaged 60 shots and 27ish hits. With the "upgrade" and somehow getting all within 12 you now get 90 shots and average 30 hits. Situational at the absolute best, and realistically its a fething nerf.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i mean if were talking highly competitve lists what army has more than 2 options...

To put it bluntly? Marines. But they are the statistical outlier, god knows they have more units than any 2 factions combined and that is before you add in extras and chapter specific stuff.

BDBurrow wrote:
The ramshackle rules are pretty dope. But I'm guessing it comes with a hefty price hike for all our vehicles.

Last time I played a tournament I had back to back Ad-Mech players. Between the two of them they brought 15 Cognis Las-cannon Chicken Walkers. Guess how many Auto-cannons they had? Zero.

I wasn't losing vehicles and mek gunz to S7 and below, its the ridiculously OP anti-tank stuff like Melta and lascannons and the new DE weapons that were killing me.

 addnid wrote:
Damage 6 with single attack claw and 24 wounds, I must say Gorkanauts sound more than OK to me. It will depend if they stay the same cost (if they cost more than they do now, mayber not...)

I own three so I can field them in a SH detachment (losing 6 CP though...), and the rest of the points can go into 30*2 boyz and a speedboss (+ whatever other character needed). This won't win me any tournament, but it could be a midly good skew list (boyz stay cap objectives but don't get too exposed either)

Unless they gain TITANIC, it's only 3CP, right?

gungo wrote:
On plus side 675 stompa is actually playable…
And you can still get klan rules in a lord of war detachment… not that I think any clan kulturs are worth it…
Killakans are legit and maybe dreadmobs
Especially if the fw big Mek named character still has his +1 hit aura that works on dreads… that’s a lot of rokkits
Doubly so if grot mobs works still…

Anyone else notice that games workshop can't add up?

I always suspected they didn't know what points cost the stompa was and now we have proof lol

900 minus 175 is not 675 lol

Nauts going to LoW completely kills them until GW fixes the LoW slot issue.
Nobody wants to run Superheavy Detachments because 6cp is fething stupid and 3 LoWs is half or more of your list. All for only sub-par units since none of them are overly oppressive either.
But in order to run a single LoW its 1cp and sacrifice kulture rules. Thats the issue, the stupid superheavy aux detachment needs to not have that dumb penalty. Even knights feel utterly pathetic if they cant get House rules.

New ramshackle rule is fething pointless. What weapon hits a vehicle that isnt S8+ and has multidamage? All that come to mind nobody uses because for the same cost or pennies more they get an S8 version with better range/damage/ap.

Same issue i have with the transork rule: S8 is too easily spammed for it to matter. Back in 5/6th or earlier it was much harder to find S8+ outisde of melee, now its all over the damn place.

I dont see how they think these buffs are awesome. Every single thing they have released thats considered 'high power' since 9th has been S8+ and very easily spammed.
Kanz getting it at least is an interesting boost since presumably theyre still T5, often people wont wanna shoot the big guns at them since they can reliably wound them with the medium guns.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I cannot quote any real math here, but I believe that the statistical average of a d6 is 3 vs 5 of 3+D3. This means all melta and equivalents are what, 75%? Deadlier? Without counting in rerolls aura and such?

+6W alone is 33% in survivability. So it's already 40% behind the powercreep. If than you count the KFF getting 17% worst, well this is all a pile of crap, eating another pile of crap.

Average of d6 is 3.5. So it’s about a 40% improvement for any weapon that went from d6 to d3+3.

Thanks, i suck at napkins math. But confirm what i said,ALL the upgrades we are getting, are worse than the upgrades everybody else is getting. For the same price..

Yeah, it kind of shows how out of touch GW are with their own rules. S7 spam was like a 5th-6th edition thing. In 8th and especially in 9th, S8+ weapons with D3+3 or D6+2 damage is all the rage and precisely what people are spamming all over the place. I get they want to remove rolling but they could have made ramshackle way more applicable to the stuff that vehicles would actually benefit from dealing with most often.

Yup, and orks having inferior versions of the rules would be fine if we had more rules for the same price to make up for it.
But we dont. If its cheaper at all its like 2-5pts less, which means nothing in the end.
Btw thats the difference between a current Meganob and an Aggressor, and guess which one is considered a pain in the ass and the other a situationally useful unit.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yup, and orks having inferior versions of the rules would be fine if we had more rules for the same price to make up for it.
But we dont. If its cheaper at all its like 2-5pts less, which means nothing in the end.
Btw thats the difference between a current Meganob and an Aggressor, and guess which one is considered a pain in the ass and the other a situationally useful unit.

And the sad part is that the Aggressor was nerfed in their more recent incarnation too, and we can still barely keep up.

I guess we used up all the GW goodwill and "win" in the models this time around. Rules-wise somebody left a drunk grot at the typewriter again.

gungo wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
With these leaks I start being a bit concerned about orks durability. Getting +1T was supposed to make orks tougher but if KFF is reduced to 6++ and light vehicles/walkers don't act as single units once deployed the army seems way less resilient now.

Single units firing a few melta shots could now wipe entire squadrons.

Infantry and biker/cavalry models should do fine, but vehicles need some way to reduce/prevent damage now. Last thing I want is another set of rules that pushes for greentides.

Greentide is dead… no unending green tide strat, no +1 atk on 20+ models, no mob rule and turning breaking heads into a strat… there is zero incentive to use greentide and large mobs are a severe detriment.

Goff beast snaggas are your durability. They have 6++ again, they have +1 toughness and they have str6 on charge with exploding 6s with additional hits… hopefully these are troops. I still want to see the new painboss rules to see if he adds anything better then a 6+ fnp.
I’m more concerned with moving buggies in groups they are so huge it’s hard to keep them in cohesion..

This is exactly why I'm considering smaller mobs in trukks. Without green tide and the noxious auras, with a universal +1 A waaagh, and +1S on charge.

That's actually way tastier on vanilla boyz, going from S4 to the critical S5 without that skarboys strategem that favored 30 man units. S6 is lost value IMO on the Goff trait with snaggas. Big Choppas and the power snippa would gain advantage from the +1S as well, with big choppas at S8 on the charge on your nob. A goff trukk mob with regular boys could actually do some work on the charge, I feel. You could distribute this army around the board without any lost value and sprinkle in battlewagons. Advantage gained as far as unit cohesion and lost value in rank combat as well.

I would prefer beast snaggas but the other clans are extremely lame. I don't see anything that pairs particularly well with them and the only advantage is 6++ and +1S.

I'm even thinking a squad of goff nobs with big choppas would be a dirty bunch with that +1S. Even a squad of 5 with big choppas puts out 4 2D wounds on average vs PEQ with S8. They could even threaten T8.

 Grimskul wrote:


New kommandos got more expensive AND they no longer have native deep strike. Not sure how I feel about this. Stormboyz might replace them if they still have their basic deep strike move.

No +1 to charge and 11 PPM GTFOH lol

Imma make a prediction and say nobz are gonna disappear. Snaggaz are the Primaris equivalent of the nobz

They don't get 2 damage though. They just get 2 attacks with S5 -1AP choppas.

Also, if Nobz retain dual choppa, S5 -1 AP 5 attacks is still significant against 1W models.

Snaggas would be the go to IMO, if there was another clan that paired well with them, but there isn't.

id both be surprised and not surprised if nobs lose dual-choppa.
Its something that they have had in promotional art and even painted figs for ages, i've used them as 'proof' it was intended to let use use 2 of them for ages. I have quite a few modeled with dual choppas.

But, it also is something GW would totally do since for some reason orks are the only faction they actually seem to show restraint for. Except for when transitioning an old codex to a new edition i dont think orks have ever been insanely good.

Even if they didnt change in price, if they keep dual choppas im still using nobs. Now with AP1 that 5 attacks is gonna do some damage.

With just -1 AP and 5 attacks, that's an average of one wound against PEQ with dual choppa. Not too bad.

If Nobs get the power snippas, with the Goff trait that's S8 -2 AP 2D on the charge. If it's priced reasonably that would be fairly strong as well.

that i would doubt since GW has not been adding new gear to old profiles. ItS NoT MoDlEd WiTh It!

Big choppas with the Goff trait being S8 on the charge is pretty tasty.

As primary a BA fan I´m glad for the new Cap and 'I got a Plan ladz' is just what BA is about ( plus always a fun mind game). Interesting times ahead.

How long has it been...
Well, hello there, fellow orks. New codex sounds exciting.

 koooaei wrote:
How long has it been...
Well, hello there, fellow orks. New codex sounds exciting.

Hey koooaei! Long time no see. There's a lot of misgivings towards the new codex so far with the (accurate) leaks shared so far, we still don't have a good idea of unit specific rules and overall strats, hopefully we can still build Ork archetypal lists without being too shoehorned towards one type.

welcome back to the dumpster fire.
Upside: its not 7th levels of bad at least

 Vineheart01 wrote:
welcome back to the dumpster fire.
Upside: its not 7th levels of bad at least

Yeah, 7th is definitely the lowest point for Ork players. Between god awful supplements (TWICE), borderline useless formations barring a few and terrible Mob Rule mechanics, we basically had to bank on the Lucky Stikk warboss, KMK, and warbiker spam to actually do anything against opponents, and against certain armies like Tau/Eldar, we were almost guaranteed losses unless you got really lucky or your opponent was a terrible player.

We just got another BIG FLOOD of leaks:

https://imgur.com/gallery/GokPAW6

Kanz are WS4+ now! Deffkoptas look real solid and Snagga boyz are confirmed to be able to use both trukks and battlewagons! Weirdly he says Gorkanauts/Morkanauts don't have Ramshackle? There might be a day 1 FAQ item for GW right there.

Also, if you scroll to the very end, they show the grot rules. Are they serious? Really? Feth off GW, T3 grots means they should suffer more morale negatives? Sometimes I don't know if GW snorts their own crap sometimes when they write these things.

On the plus side a lot of our model range is now plastic.. and they even redid the ork boyz troop plastic kit… and a new warboss in mega armor…which means we might have new weapon options on both included!!!

Only resin left (if still in codex)
Snikrot
Zagstrukk
Maddoc
Kff big Mek
Tankbustas
Waagh banner nob
Regular weirdboy
Badrukk

Plus we got a LOT of new units.. it’s not really bad and honestly some of the changes people are complaining about like snakebite kultur and ramshackle I’m fine with. They are still better then the previous rules they replaced.. I’m mainly concerned with the mobility issues.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

But in order to run a single LoW its 1cp and sacrifice kulture rules. Thats the issue, the stupid superheavy aux detachment needs to not have that dumb penalty. Even knights feel utterly pathetic if they cant get House rules.

Someone remind me how we get a LOW for 1 CP ? and why no kulturs ?

I got 2 nauts, seems like I can't get them 2 together on field anymore, and even one will cost me 3CP ;(

i swear to god that core list better be wrong.

Deffdreads and Kanz should be core. Marine dreads are freaking core and they didnt remove that, Deffdreads/Kanz are literally budgetized Dreadnoughts.

@XC18 - latest CA mentions if the LoW in the Aux detachment matches the army of your warlord (i.e. the codex army not stuff like Imperium or Chaos tags) it refunds 2cp, total of 1 cp cost.
The lack of Kulture comes from the Aux Detachment itself, which specifically denies such rules for some stupid reason.
I feel your pain. I have 2 and am currently working on a third and now im about to just shelf a half-complete model because i will never be able to use it again until GW fixes the LoW issues.

XC18 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

But in order to run a single LoW its 1cp and sacrifice kulture rules. Thats the issue, the stupid superheavy aux detachment needs to not have that dumb penalty. Even knights feel utterly pathetic if they cant get House rules.

Someone remind me how we get a LOW for 1 CP ? and why no kulturs ?

I got 2 nauts, seems like I can't get them 2 together on field anymore, and even one will cost me 3CP ;(

It was an update they did for Auxiliary Super Heavy Detachments, they still get no traits but its been revised to only cost 1CP for your first SHV unit you take with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i swear to god that core list better be wrong.

Deffdreads and Kanz should be core. Marine dreads are freaking core and they didnt remove that, Deffdreads/Kanz are literally budgetized Dreadnoughts.

Yeah, I'm disappointed by that as well. I have a bad feeling GW are going to use the WALKERZ keyword as a crutch for strats and Mek related shenanigans. God forbid they benefit from Ork auras.

Oh good, if that's the rule for Red Shiny Shoota I may give that one a whirl for a chance. Looks fun. Thank god Burnas are finally d6 shots!!!

I am a little concerned they mention that the Speedfreeks Warboss is limited to the Deffkilla Wartrike. I prefer to use Warboss on a Warbike myself.

Lack of ramshackle on the lords of war is not an error if WHC is to be believed.

Latest article said they didnt have it.

Not that it means anything. Kanz might benefit from it since i betcha theyre still T5 but nothing else will ever benefit as all thats ever going to hit them is 1D guns or BIG GUNS that ignore the rule anyway.
"Lets give them a rule for -1 damage that only works if the player is stupid enough to fire the wrong weapon a a tank in the first place!"

It also means the vehicles from FW are gonna get hurt since part of their allure was they had the wounds to actually benefit from ramshackle old rules. Issue with trukks was they generally never had a chance to use it, either plinked to death with small guns or a single failed ramshackle against a big shot killed them, while megadreads and killtanks had the toughness, wounds, and save to cause several ramshackle saves here and there.

Ah, I must have skimmed through the WHC article too quickly then. Deffkoptas get Ramshackle at least, so that makes them a very annoying unit and a good one for us to take in most lists.

Weird they took away the auto-hit for Traktor Kannons though, not like they were being spammed or anything.

Here's all the leaks, including the new stuff that just hit today.

Too long to post in chat, just trust me and click on this for literally everything so far. Giant image.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/GokPAW6

THEY NERFED GROTS. ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING?!

The only silver lining in this whole debacle was dreads and kanz were looking good. Now they aren't even core.

Oh my. Core includes a lot of stuff.

Stormboyz, meganobs, warbikers, the squigs, tankbustas, burnas, etc.

Goff stormboyz with Waaagh are going to be particularly dangerous I feel. I wish they had a cost effective kit. S5 Ap-1 +1A and advance charge with exploding 6s.

Burnas 11ppm.
Also, Kommandos are actually 10 per the leak source.

I'm really think Stormboyz are going to be a power play. They have everything they need to murder whatever they don't like.

Ere we go still in.

Tankbustas lost re-rolls, +1 to hit is nice given that their weapons are Heavy now but it's obviously an overall nerf.

Burnas are back up to 17 points (!?!)

Grots...

This book is completely schizophrenic, I cannot follow the design logic at all.

Madjob wrote:
Tankbustas lost re-rolls, +1 to hit is nice given that their weapons are Heavy now but it's obviously an overall nerf.

Burnas are back up to 17 points (!?!)

Grots...

This book is completely schizophrenic, I cannot follow the design logic at all.

I think the spannerz might be 17.

Yeah it said Burnas are 11 and Spanners are 17. Certainly better than 30!