Keramory wrote: I'm just really sad about Evil Sunz. Favorite tribe by far and was already sad over not just 8th not having a character but them taking FW's character away too. Now apparently we lose boss on a bike... so it's just my trike I guess.
The plus 1 to charge is devastating but I'm still sticking with ES. I refuse to slog 5" orks.. 4" for Meganobz.
Before all of this I said here and elsewhere I didn't understand how enemy armies would deal with t5 spam across an entire codex. Now I know how. Nuke down everything else lol
Biker boss is a FW unit, so being excluded from the codex is reasonable. No different than other FW units like grot tanks, squiggoths, etc.
My mistake. For some reason I thought I read in one of the discord leaks they were canning that.
You did - because it read like the dude leaking didn't know WTF he was talking about. It was worded as if it was removed from the Codex. Like.. dude, it was never there to begin with.
It's why I'm skeptical we're missing context still. But we shall ssseee...
Correct playtesters will not know what’s happening to fw units… fw units will get a faq/errata shortly after the codex release to add in keywords and change weapjn profiles etc… PLUS it was just in the new chapter approved so unlikely it’s gone.
Virules wrote: T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.
I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.
1) we already had that rule...they just turned it from an aura to a once per game thing like it used to be
2) its only affecting 2 turns, while everyone else gets game-long effects.
Again with the orks getting crappier rules everyone else gets but not being costed to compensate with numbers. Boyz at 9 is a joke so far, even 11 for snaggas isnt that great
Yep.
Comparing a 9 pt boy or 11 pt Snagga boy to an 8 pt Skitari Ranger or vanguard with all the layers of buffs and stratagems, we aren't playing in the same sport, let along division.
Virules wrote: T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.
I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.
We lose mob rule as well?
please tell me you are joking?
Going to be the first 9th edition codex that's actually worse than the 8th edition version
Virules wrote: T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.
so "the problem is every other codex" essentially. Right.
BTW marines wont be breaking a sweat to beat us either as they spam S8 and what isnt S8 they fire buckets full.
The only 9th codex i dont see curbstomping the orks so far is Necrons, and even they have answers to what little we got its just not usually in the same masses that the other codices are doing.
This was literally the argument in 7th when we got our codex: "The codex internally is well balanced, nothing really screams useless or overpowered compared to the rest of it. The problem is the other armies are insanely strong compared to us!"
1) we already had that rule...they just turned it from an aura to a once per game thing like it used to be
2) its only affecting 2 turns, while everyone else gets game-long effects.
Again with the orks getting crappier rules everyone else gets but not being costed to compensate with numbers. Boyz at 9 is a joke so far, even 11 for snaggas isnt that great
Yep.
Comparing a 9 pt boy or 11 pt Snagga boy to an 8 pt Skitari Ranger or vanguard with all the layers of buffs and stratagems, we aren't playing in the same sport, let along division.
Virules wrote: T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.
I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.
We lose mob rule as well?
please tell me you are joking?
Going to be the first 9th edition codex that's actually worse than the 8th edition version
MMmmm.... but you have full knowledge of the Ad Mech Codex. We honestly don't know our strategems yet, other potential auras overlapping. There's a clear difference in data availability there.
We'll know tomorrow most likely. Then we can all collectively gripe until the next Codex lol.
1) we already had that rule...they just turned it from an aura to a once per game thing like it used to be
2) its only affecting 2 turns, while everyone else gets game-long effects.
Again with the orks getting crappier rules everyone else gets but not being costed to compensate with numbers. Boyz at 9 is a joke so far, even 11 for snaggas isnt that great
Yep.
Comparing a 9 pt boy or 11 pt Snagga boy to an 8 pt Skitari Ranger or vanguard with all the layers of buffs and stratagems, we aren't playing in the same sport, let along division.
Virules wrote: T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.
I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.
We lose mob rule as well?
please tell me you are joking?
Going to be the first 9th edition codex that's actually worse than the 8th edition version
Mob rule is very strong but these changes do equalize things. Compare plague bearers at 9 ppm to a toughness 5 ork boy at 9 ppm. I'd take the boyz any day. The problem is comparing them to the game's most infamously undercosted troops, which make every other army's troops look stupid. Boyz are still an infinitely better troops choice then, say, plague marines or even necron warriors. Everyone else has always had to worry about morale, now Boyz are in the same boat. Not to mention that failing morale is way, way less punishing in 9th.
Boyz are losing some good stuff but fundamentally 9th edition heavily rewards large numbers of 10 or less point models being obsec on objectives. Drukhari showed us how powerful this is when those models are good in melee and can advance and charge on to objectives.
Whoa, good catch. I didn't notice that the first time.
Reading it again... it seems totally intended to me. It says use at the start of any phase, not shoot or fight. Why would you do it in your command phase if it WASNT permanent?
Virules wrote: T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.
I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.
I fail to understand why people keep repeating this ad nauseum as though the Goff rules didn't leak. Goff boys can get S5 on the charge. There's your meat and potatoes.
It's an 18% points cost difference, which means that many more bodies and/or toys on the table. Nothing wrong with going the good ol slugga boy route as far as I can tell.
footfoe wrote: Whoa, good catch. I didn't notice that the first time.
Reading it again... it seems totally intended to me. It says use at the start of any phase, not shoot or fight. Why would you do it in your command phase if it WASNT permanent?
ya think? i don't buy it lol orks don't get many nice things, i expect it to be errated to 1 turn or 1 phase.
the current version of monster hunters is absurdly 3cp and lasts 1 phase, it also says use at the start of any phase.
gungo wrote: Correct playtesters will not know what’s happening to fw units… fw units will get a faq/errata shortly after the codex release to add in keywords and change weapjn profiles etc… PLUS it was just in the new chapter approved so unlikely it’s gone.
Yeah I'm hoping for a quick faq for Warboss on a Warbike. That's been my favorite HQ for a long while now and I'd like to use SpeedWaaagh with him in the future.
Nym wrote: I think most people are confusing Mob rule and Mob up. Looking at the rumors/leaks, I think we might have lost Mob Up (strat), not Mob rule.
Even if we still have mob rule, having to pay 9ppm for boyz still makes hoards tricky.
XC18 wrote: I'll be curious about the new stratagems.
No matter some models are nerfed or not, some strat can be game changing or give the egde we need.
With Unstoppable Green Tide gone, we need some wins. I'm expecting our attack twice strat to only work for snaggas for 2CP and not the squig rider ones either.
XC18 wrote: I'll be curious about the new stratagems.
No matter some models are nerfed or not, some strat can be game changing or give the egde we need.
With Unstoppable Green Tide gone, we need some wins. I'm expecting our attack twice strat to only work for snaggas for 2CP and not the squig rider ones either.
According to leaks showing off is an extra hit on a 6 on a single badmoon infantry unit 1cp because you know that’s equivilant to shooting twice. This book was written by 2 non-orks players.. god I wish stu black writes codexs he’s one of the only 2 ork players in that studio.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I was able to compile some stuff from the broken app. Forgive me if it's out of order - I put it together quickly for the discord.
Wow, I guess this is one good thing about GW's app being crappy is stuff like this
Wow, stormboyz stonks went UP. Only 1 MW now if you go full throttle on a 4+, they kept their old deep strike rule and got cheaper by 1 point.
Wonder what Zagstruk looks like now.
Also, makes sense but I feel sad Mek Gunz can't charge anymore. It was always funny doing a last ditch ramming speed on them against a nearby wounded character.
Also, the new mob rule is pretty crap, but I guess its better than having nothing at all.
So mob rule is gone and instead it’s just your no longer considered half strength if near another unit not at half strength…
We also have no attrition modifiers meaning it doesn’t do much so never take a unit of 20+ models… and really anything over 10 is a problem.
That's actually a pretty solid boost. Means you don't have to do a weird bubble around everybody. Killing enemy MSU units in CC will also actually impact your choice in terms of order when you get stuck in. Probably not enough to compete against Goffs and Deffskullz, but still not bad.
Oh god, KFF is even worse than we thought, it's 6++ within 6", but it's an actual invulnerable save, not just against shooting.
Huuuuuuuuuuh. Interesting, seems like GW compromised between the misprint in SoTB, where it gave an invuln. in CC, except they made it a garbage save instead.
If the rumours of juicing that KFF to a 5++ somehow is real, that might be borderline worth it depending on what we have to do reach that combo.
I just read that. Kinda sucks we need to pay CP to get back what we originally had, but given that it lasts till the end of the turn and it now works in CC....it might be worth it for the defensive ability.
More importantly, grot shields are now like the IW cannon fodder strat for cultists now. Might actually make stuff like Flash Gitz and Lootas potentially usable depending on if Grots are affected by Klanz.
Also, LOL, I can't believe snagga units have transhuman physiology as a strat. Totally not Primorks guyyyyz.
cody.d. wrote: Hah, the box set sold out before GW even sent the email about it being available. Good stuff. /s
Where is even the link to get it lol?
I think because Australia is in a diff. time zone they got the pre orders up early.
Nevermind I'm US. It's not till 1pm for us. First time ordering from GW directly on a preorder, so question... Do you know when they'll actually ship out? I ask because I'm moving so I got to decide an address XD
I know you guys don't really like playing Blood Axes, but I just wonder -since their trait apparently don't change- : what type of cover does BA units benefit when shot from over 18" ? Light cover ? Dense cover ?
And does BA vehicles get the cover too ?
Also, wtf, why did they make the burna boyz melee profile a 1CP strat. It doesn't even stack with when a WAAAGH! is called.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
XC18 wrote: I know you guys don't really like playing Blood Axes, but I just wonder -since their trait apparently don't change- : what type of cover does BA units benefit when shot from over 18" ? Light cover ? Dense cover ?
And does BA vehicles get the cover too ?
Still light cover, literally nothing changed for them, which really sucks to be honest, they should have at least made it outside of 12" and dense cover.
Da Krunch got a big upgrade with the caveat of doing mortals on 5+ instead of 6+ when you cast on a 9 or higher. With the Scorched Gitbonez relic that's on a 8+, that's pretty good against Skitarii spam right now.
So we got the DE Succubus "attack again" WL trait, for Brutal but Kunnin now. Pretty crazy imagining an Ork Warboss going full Jojo mode, ORAORAORA'ing an enemy to death.
Grimskul wrote: I just read that. Kinda sucks we need to pay CP to get back what we originally had, but given that it lasts till the end of the turn and it now works in CC....it might be worth it for the defensive ability.
More importantly, grot shields are now like the IW cannon fodder strat for cultists now. Might actually make stuff like Flash Gitz and Lootas potentially usable depending on if Grots are affected by Klanz.
Also, LOL, I can't believe snagga units have transhuman physiology as a strat. Totally not Primorks guyyyyz.
Read the KFF again - you don't have to be wholly within now. so 9" scratch a unit gets a 5++ for 2 CP that works against both shooting and melee. Luls.
***SPOILERS****
the squig overlords save our butts
You're not exactly wrong. The squig/snagga units are definitely some of the highlights. Though stormboyz and kommandos are thankfully very strong in this codex as well, especially the former.
Follow me lads is an interesting trait now, model tags a unit or units with a wartrike and get 1+ to charge against the target. I do hope there's a stratagem to get addional traits as there seems to be some damn fun ones.
Aww they changed Brutal but Kunning though. Gone are the re-rolls and extra damage. Now it's extra attacks = to attacks that failed to cause damage.
There is so much good stuff in there, I could have easily done the articles on the community page in a way that everyone would have gone completely insane from euphoria instead of falling into despair...
Has anyone seen rules that explain how the subcultures work? I only remember the rumor that you are allowed to tack one onto a detachment. Maybe this is our army wide rule?
By the way, for those still waiting for the pre-order to launch, make sure to enter the queue with as many devices as possible. If you are on the page when the queue starts the placement is completely random, for me I had queue placements up to 9000 positions apart, despite both devices refreshing in the same moment, which made a difference of over 30 minutes.
Also don't buy more boxes than you need, other orks out there need their codices.
There is a few strong combos in The codex but a few units went trash tier too. Wtf did they nerf grots and leave them at 5ppm. Sure you can use them in snakebites but really grots didnt need to be nerfed more.
Jidmah wrote: There is so much good stuff in there, I could have easily done the articles on the community page in a way that everyone would have gone completely insane from euphoria instead of falling into despair...
Has anyone seen rules that explain how the subcultures work? I only remember the rumor that you are allowed to tack one onto a detachment. Maybe this is our army wide rule?
By the way, for those still waiting for the pre-order to launch, make sure to enter the queue with as many devices as possible. If you are on the page when the queue starts the placement is completely random, for me I had queue placements up to 9000 positions apart, despite both devices refreshing in the same moment, which made a difference of over 30 minutes.
Also don't buy more boxes than you need, other orks out there need their codices.
Yeah the more I read through all the traits, stratagems, powers and such. There's a lot going on besides just the base statelines. Yeah a lotta stuff is different will function differently, but there's also things that only we can do which is a good feeling. Just read Careen, shame it can't be used in engagement range but still a good laugh and a callback to the old trukk rules of scatter then blow up.
Careen is literally my favorite thing right now. I used to be incredibly lucky with my careen rolls in 5th edition, my trukks would always fly into the middle of the enemy army and explode there.
Also worth noticing is that nobz benefit from the trukk boyz buff. Ironically, trukk boyz is exactly what I have suggested to fix them in a suggested rules thread here on dakka
The beastboss on squigosaur is vicious as well. Not as fast as the biker boss, but hits like three times as hard.
I'm missing the rules for battlewagons right now, has anyone seen them?
Most of the stratagems and stratagem costs feel like somebody was throwing darts at a board with random numbers on it.
Breaking heads is now a stratagem that costs 2 CP.... I mean wut?
Lumbering Strides paying a command point to allow big walkers to re-roll one or both dice on the ere we go.
I mean taking what were free abilities away then making them stratagems is not a good look, it's just feel bads.
Showing off is the same deal.
More Dakka is just poor now and again costs 2 CP
Careen. Paying 2 CP to move a destroyed vehicle 6" before it blows up. Fun rule as Jidmah says and very flavourful I'll give it that.
wth were these guys smoking?
This must have been written by a totally different team to the Ad Mech codex who get ridiculously good stratagems across the board at mostly half the CP cost
It's as I feared we have the joke codex again.
And while its not all doom and gloom, I can see some very powerful stuff in amongst the garbage. Its kind of sad really as this could have been so much better without being broken if more care had been taken.
Most of the stratagems and stratagem costs feel like somebody was throwing darts at a board with random numbers on it.
Breaking heads is now a stratagem that costs 2 CP.... I mean wut?
Lumbering Strides paying a command point to allow big walkers to re-roll one or both dice on the ere we go.
Careen. Paying 2 CP to move a destroyed vehicle 6" before it blows up
wth were these guys smoking?
This must have been written by a totally different team to the Ad Mech codex who get ridiculously good stratagems across the board at mostly half the CP cost
It's as I feared we have the joke codex again.
And while its not all doom and gloom, I can see some very powerful stuff in amongst the garbage. Its kind of sad really as this could have been so much better without being broken if more care had been taken.
Pretty sure the 2CP is only if it's a titanic. So either a naut or a killtank. Wagons and such it's only 1 i think. And think of it this way, in theory the units are cheaper for having standard abilities moved over to stratagems. So when you don't use it you don't feel ripped off.
I don't know if others already noticed but KFF now works in combat, it's a flat invuln save. Extended to 5++ thanks to a 2CP stratagem.
Odd that warbikes didn't get +1T but +1W instead.
I'm disappointed about Kustom Mega weapons being D6 instead of 2/3 + D3, at least KMBs gained more shots, but really relieved that squadrons still act as single units once deployed. Traktor Kannon is very interesting now.
No tankbusta bombs for the boyz? That would have been amazing with the TB bomb stratagem.
I haven’t seen anything on flash gits aside from the strat to shoot again (which seems great), who has intel on the best infantry model GW ever produced?
I wonder if goffs get extra tankhammer hits on a 6+.
Given all the buffs to, or changes, to kustom mega blastas and rokkits and 12 inch scorchas, i kind of see the cheap Grot Mega Tanks as sort of MVPs in this edition so far. 7 rokkits can be equipped all being D3 each. or Kustom mega blastas. meaning the grot mega tanks just received at least 100% boost to their firepower.
I noticed Deff Dreads with three claws and a Skorcha now only cost 90 points. (down from 110 for 2 claw+saw + skorcha) Aaand the Skorcha has now a range of 12'' instead of 8''.
Also, Storm Boyz gained T5 but also got a point reduction from 12 to 11. As regular Boyz went from 8 to 9, we now only pay 2 points for the jetpack. That's a good deal, right?
Warbikers aren't as cheap as I hoped but I didn't foresee the extra wound nor the Big Red Button rule. With the Choppa buff I will probably be giving them a try again, I know they don't compete with Squighog Boyz at that price but I'm never running those so it's a moot point for me.
Rukkatrukks are good now, whodathunk. Actually perfect anti-lucius weapon.
Madjob wrote: Warbikers aren't as cheap as I hoped but I didn't foresee the extra wound nor the Big Red Button rule. With the Choppa buff I will probably be giving them a try again, I know they don't compete with Squighog Boyz at that price but I'm never running those so it's a moot point for me.
Rukkatrukks are good now, whodathunk. Actually perfect anti-lucius weapon.
They look very cheap for T5 3W 4+ models with high M actually. They also gained AP-1 in shooting in the waaagh turn.
gungo wrote: Storm boys are extremely good. They also loss less models w full throttle.
Did not even notice that.
The difference is huge as well.
Before it was 0.83 for a 5-man squad (9.96 points) and 5 for a 30-man squad (whooping 60 points).
Now the unit loses 0.5 models on average, so 5.5 points. Irregardless of unit size.
However... Full Throttle is not optional anymore. When you advance the unit, you automatically use Full Throttle. Still a great change, though.
dont ever put it in a vehicle. It doesnt have that clause that it buffs the vehicle its inside anymore....
edit: HOLY GAK! Trukks transport 12 flash gits or <clan> infantry!
THEY DIDNT SCREW THEM OUT OF SNAGGAS!!
Well, I guess boyz aren't meta anymore.
Too bad, still running them. I have something like 100 of the gits and I don't like Snaggas.
Only boyz and nobz can disembark after moving though, beast snaggas can't.
From point of view, it's boyz for trukks, beast snaggas for battlewagons and gretchin for the shelf.
I can see snakebite grots for the lolz with their Transfungus Physiologee with KFF support, I dont think itll be competitive without obsec but it can be an interesting roadblock, especially with grot shields becoming the new IW cannon fodder strat for our book.
BDBurrow wrote: So how do the subkulturs work? Is it just 1 unit or the entire detachment?
I'm hearing it both ways. Early leak I thought I saw limited one subkultur unit per detachment, but now with the app leaks I'm seeing people say not. I'm inclined to believe the former because otherwise we're going to be a broken super-soup faction, as many units that get basically nothing out of certain kulturs can just take the appropriate subkultur - like I have no reason for tankbustas to be anything but Bad Moons/Deffskulls or the Boom Boyz subkultur, so if I'm not running either of the first two and I can take as many subkulturs as I want, then I'm doing Boom Boyz.
That being said, I know they don't gain the benefit of the normal Kulturs, but they still have the appropriate <clan> keyword right? I still haven't seen a shot of the specialist mob rules.
Jidmah wrote: I'm fairly positive that you can put it on at least two units, otherwise listing warbosses would make no sense.
To be fair, you can only take 1 warboss per detachment now right? If it was 1 per detachment that makes sense since you'd have to take 2 detachments for 2 warbosses
Deffdreads are 85pts with 2 klaws 2 bigshootas. Klaws/bigshootas are 0pts, rokkits/kmbs are 10 and skorchas 5
Killakanz are 40pts with a kanklaw and bigshoota. ALL its options are 0pts (side note, it says they all have a bigshoota so likely they didnt shaft them to 1 of each. either i missed it or they didnt take a pic of the options list).
why....would rokkits be free swap on kanz but not dreads? Thats kinda funny...40pt rokkit kanz?
I have 10 Killa Kanz I've been mostly sitting on most of 8th and 9th edition and now they actually look good, T5 5w models with a 3+ save and can actually hit half the time in melee with flat 3 damage attacks, plus their -1 damage rule against attacks below strength 7, which while not amazing is pretty decent at protecting them from assault plasma, autocannons, loads of Tyranid Melee (excepting the Forge World bugs that are dominating their lists rn, I'd know because my Dima is a monster) plenty of death guard weapons and if we can find a -1 strength power or aura that will make those little grots in a Kan amazing. I went from doom and gloom to realizing I can now try those old Kan Wall lists without gimping myself.
It's still killsaws for meganobz right? They were nerfed but are 5 points and you still get a bonus attack for a pair, 4d3 damage at ap-4 feels better than 6 damage at ap-3, to me.
45pts for dualsaw meganobz, each saw is 5pts since i dont see a clause (in those leaks anyway) to take both for cheaper.
that used to be fine since they were 2d before but now theyre d3d. i'll still use them purely because i have 10 Jugganobz from geargutz and theyre way too freaking sweet to not use but i'd say going klaw is probably better now since 10ppm and reliable 2d is a big factor.
Also i didnt see the strat for +1d sadly for meganobz.
Vineheart01 wrote: 45pts for dualsaw meganobz, each saw is 5pts since i dont see a clause (in those leaks anyway) to take both for cheaper.
that used to be fine since they were 2d before but now theyre d3d. i'll still use them purely because i have 10 Jugganobz from geargutz and theyre way too freaking sweet to not use but i'd say going klaw is probably better now since 10ppm and reliable 2d is a big factor.
Also i didnt see the strat for +1d sadly for meganobz.
going over the strats again...think i noticed the biggest gripe i have in these leaks. Almost every single freaking strat i'd actually want to use is 2cp. WHY ARE GROT SHIELDS 2CP!? Hell even More Dakka! is 2cp, which is just we get the half-range at full range. How the hell is that a 2cp strat when several rapid-fire boosting effects in other armies that are just about as good are 1cp? (nevermind the vanguard autowound on 4+ to hit bs being 1cp)
More Dakka was definitely the most egregious example, Dakka is already a "worse" version of rapid fire so to speak, and the unit that likes getting half their range back the most (Lootas) don't get that much out of it.
It should absolutely be 1 CP, hopefully will be errata'd to that at the first opportunity.
not to mention even more generic stuff we used to have are a strat now.
Tankbusta bombs are a 1cp thing instead of wargear. Thats total bs, even if it does 2d3 mortals (if it hits, melee only, vehicles only).
I was wondering where the melee rules for burnas went. Found them, 1cp to get that back. Wtfgw?
Looking at everything, I'm a little sad overall of the codex. One fun thing about orks is ... theyre orky. Dakka dakka, the one or both dice for ere we go, etc. All poof.
I'm not an overall fan of strategm bloat either. Why did burnas need their melee profile in a strat? Makes zero sense. Were they too broken lol?
Also f gw where it hurts most for the spanner takes. I converted half those things because they were worthless
Vineheart01 wrote: not to mention even more generic stuff we used to have are a strat now.
Tankbusta bombs are a 1cp thing instead of wargear. Thats total bs, even if it does 2d3 mortals (if it hits, melee only, vehicles only).
I was wondering where the melee rules for burnas went. Found them, 1cp to get that back. Wtfgw?
Burnas, it's weird but if it's the price to pay for 11 pts and proper flamers (not to mention the burna subkultur), I can live with it. Tankbusta bombs I actually like, coupled with the tankhammers, tankbustas can put out a silly amount of mortal wounds in CC against vehicles (4-18).
Speaking of the burna subkultur, did anyone else spot that Burna Exhausts were listed as a target of the buff, but Boosta-blastas were not eligible for joining that subkultur?
Well this is not what I expected. There is loads of new and cool stuff but more I have read there is just some bizarre things and not really in good way. It is like the guy wrote unit profiles and rules actually liked orks but the guy who wrote the stratagems and kulturs slept most of the time and then someone had to fix his mess.
But I do think there is some things that make orks usable and not just new beast snaggas.
Also, I absolutely loath that the shiny new warboss in mega-armour does not get a 'klaw. Who in the right mind thought that is okay?
I will scrap build a power klaw on my warboss with a painted text "zogg dis gw!".
The new mega armor warboss does have a garagatuan new type of big Choppa that’s basically a pk +3 str -3ap d2 damage on a warboss
Sure it’s only str9 instead of 12 but it doesn’t have the -1 to hit either..
Vineheart01 wrote: not to mention even more generic stuff we used to have are a strat now. Tankbusta bombs are a 1cp thing instead of wargear. Thats total bs, even if it does 2d3 mortals (if it hits, melee only, vehicles only). I was wondering where the melee rules for burnas went. Found them, 1cp to get that back. Wtfgw?
Burnas, it's weird but if it's the price to pay for 11 pts and proper flamers (not to mention the burna subkultur), I can live with it. Tankbusta bombs I actually like, coupled with the tankhammers, tankbustas can put out a silly amount of mortal wounds in CC against vehicles (4-18).
Speaking of the burna subkultur, did anyone else spot that Burna Exhausts were listed as a target of the buff, but Boosta-blastas were not eligible for joining that subkultur?
The big reason the tankbusta bomb strat is bs is now only 1 model in the entire army can do it and you can 'run out' because you are out of cp. Previously, every boy squad had a model with it and tankbustas had a full squad of it. I threw tankbusta bombs all the time, they were awesome surprise big damage sources. Now its gone as it only hits vehicles, melee only for some reason, and despite fielding 6 untis with it only 1 can actually do it. And coupled with how many strats we got are 1cp i dont see myself ever using it because i will NEED that cp for so many other strats now.
I originally was thinking i needed to bring 2 detachments this time around because of slot issues. But i dont even think i can handle the cp cost lol. (And they expect us to pay 6 freaking cp to bring 3 nauts...)
Madjob wrote: More Dakka was definitely the most egregious example, Dakka is already a "worse" version of rapid fire so to speak, and the unit that likes getting half their range back the most (Lootas) don't get that much out of it.
It should absolutely be 1 CP, hopefully will be errata'd to that at the first opportunity.
Is it really a worse version though?
Yes Rapid Fire gives double shots at short range, but RF weapons tend to have low fire rates to begin with.
Dakka has comparatively higher fire rates, even at long range.
I don't think it's a downgrade, more of a side grade.
imo, Nauts Burnas Tankbustas and Grots are dead and wont ever be used.
Burnas got the typical gw +1 -2 motto. Finally got D6 attacks and 12" range but are pricy and their freaking melee profile is a strat now.
Tankbustas..we all know that problem
Grots are the most pathetic unit in the game but cost the same as a guardsmen for some reason. Even grotshields got nerfed like wtf?
Nauts are 350pts(Mork) or 365pts(Gork) base (+30 for KFF for some reason.... THIRTY!!) and now have the infamous issue of being a LoW, which either forces unrealistic costs to field or loses kulture benefits.
Strangely those leaks dont include deffkoptas, the Rigs, or any of our planes/wagons. So no idea on them yet. (im hoping Dakkajets are 5/3 Dakka without getting a skyrocket price jump. They's gonna be mean if they dont go up)
Hoofy wrote: I cant believe our nauts are finally titanic, but now also LoW so we have to pay 6 cp to get them
well.. i cant believe the stompa dont have a stomp ability lol
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Vineheart01 wrote: 45pts for dualsaw meganobz, each saw is 5pts since i dont see a clause (in those leaks anyway) to take both for cheaper.
that used to be fine since they were 2d before but now theyre d3d. i'll still use them purely because i have 10 Jugganobz from geargutz and theyre way too freaking sweet to not use but i'd say going klaw is probably better now since 10ppm and reliable 2d is a big factor.
Also i didnt see the strat for +1d sadly for meganobz.
I did see an actual codex page for the Wazbom pop up. They have base BS4+, and mekbrain is gone. Supa-shootas are still S6 ap-1 d1 (was really hoping for d2), and Dakka 6/4 which is brilliant, they gained a shot at full range and doubled their old output at half. Tellyporta guns are damage D3+3.
if thats accurate and dakkajets still have 6 of those guns...whoof lol 36/24 S6 AP1 1D shots, presumably keeping the strafing run for +1 to hit if they dont splitfire. Ouch.
Vineheart01 wrote: if thats accurate and dakkajets still have 6 of those guns...whoof lol 36/24 S6 AP1 1D shots, presumably keeping the strafing run for +1 to hit if they dont splitfire. Ouch.
Yup, hoping the cost isn't abhorrent, if they stay 155 they are 100% worth taking. With Speedwaaagh it's 42 shots and ap-2.
Forgot another important detail - Wazboms have 9" (within) 5++ KFF, but only for friendly Aircraft. It also has Ramshackle so I can assume they all do. 10 PL for Wazbom.
Hoofy wrote: I cant believe our nauts are finally titanic, but now also LoW so we have to pay 6 cp to get them
Gorkanaut also lost an attack, to add insult to injury:(
Without kustom Jobs they don’t seem very interesting but I would still try 3 of them and see what is what.
Yeah I'm concerned we will lose our price cut on buggies paying for the jobs now. Squigbuggy might have a place without just for a source of indirect fire.
Yeah I'm concerned we will lose our price cut on buggies paying for the jobs now. Squigbuggy might have a place without just for a source of indirect fire.
The two I've seen stink, so I wouldn't worry about that. 15 p for 4+ one extra shot on dakka weapons each turn.
I mean, he's not wrong about Mozrog. It is a stupid datasheet.
Just in and of itself, it's a 4++ T7 with 9 wounds -1 damage, not considering the mobility and silly damage output.
Then you look at the Snakebite strategems and warlord traits. You can get things like always fights first, get free attacks based on failing to reach the damage phase. The strategems can allow you to modify damage or wound rolls. He's disturbingly solid from every angle.
Once you start adding everything up and running the math with the combinations, he's capable of ridiculous things.
The thing he's off about is that I don't actually think Snakebites are a good clan trait, especially considering the sub-S8 rule doesn't even really affect him as he's T7, except for +1 to wound or other rules.
I think snakebites can be strong against shooting armies. Wide transhuman against <F8 weapons can be crucial to survive against AdMech or Astra Militarum.
But, against melee armies, T5 is far enough. You may need Goffs bonus to charge in some points. Deathskulls can be useful too for stealing primary objectives with Stormboyz...>
Going through those leaks with all the data sheets I'm definitely in a better mindset going into the new book.
If you can spam those specialist mobs, then trukkboy mobs, tellyporta big krumpaz MANz, a squigboss and boom boy deffkoptas will be a reasonably strong choice.
For a guy who says he pilots orks a lot, I don't think he really has a good grasp of the new rules based on his other videos. He thinks the new WAAAGH is so strong that 'ere we go should have been deleted. Like what?
TedNugent wrote: I mean, he's not wrong about Mozrog. It is a stupid datasheet.
Just in and of itself, it's a 4++ T7 with 9 wounds -1 damage, not considering the mobility and silly damage output.
Then you look at the Snakebite strategems and warlord traits. You can get things like always fights first, get free attacks based on failing to reach the damage phase. The strategems can allow you to modify damage or wound rolls. He's disturbingly solid from every angle.
Once you start adding everything up and running the math with the combinations, he's capable of ridiculous things.
The thing he's off about is that I don't actually think Snakebites are a good clan trait, especially considering the sub-S8 rule doesn't even really affect him as he's T7, except for +1 to wound or other rules.
And THEN you remember that Special Characters have set Warlord Traits and can't ever be chosen for extra Trait stratagems, so those are actually irrelevant.
Sotahullu wrote: Actually, I really wonder can MANz use trukkboy mobs rule as they also have Nobz keyword. Can be kinda hilarious.
Technically - that seems accurate.
For the above post - I think everyone has a bias nature in their analysis (me included, but I have a happy one so far haha). I'm seeing a mixed bag of "omg this is great now" and still some downers.... we shall see who is right once we get on the board I think. I'm thinking there's some unintuitive combos like what Sotahullu just mentioned - that'll be amazeballs once everyone sits there and really digs in instead of going leak by leak and having a hard time keeping it as a package.
But I could be wrong and it could just fall apart on the table haha.
Sotahullu wrote: Actually, I really wonder can MANz use trukkboy mobs rule as they also have Nobz keyword. Can be kinda hilarious.
Technically - that seems accurate.
For the above post - I think everyone has a bias nature in their analysis (me included, but I have a happy one so far haha). I'm seeing a mixed bag of "omg this is great now" and still some downers.... we shall see who is right once we get on the board I think. I'm thinking there's some unintuitive combos like what Sotahullu just mentioned - that'll be amazeballs once everyone sits there and really digs in instead of going leak by leak and having a hard time keeping it as a package.
But I could be wrong and it could just fall apart on the table haha.
The army-wide rules are certainly a dumpster fire compared to the units we're seeing leaked, but the rest of the rules seem to be containing the wildfire so to speak.
I've definitely moved my opinion from "terrible codex" to "not the best, but by no means a bad book". Only time will tell.
addnid wrote: I wonder if truckboy lootas could have some play ?
I don't see any benefit? Well, I see a marginal one in that it gets you an extra 8" of range if you're trying to get within 24" for Dakka, but that feels like a bad tactic for fragile Lootas.
Hi all, been lurking for a bit but couldn't bring myself to jump in - was afraid I'd get hypernatremia. Now we know more, I'm really positive on some of the changes and lukewarm on others.
First off, and crucially, the points values seem to be incredibly generous on a lot of units - kans at 40 and meganobz at 35 are particularly welcome.
Overall, it seems like the push was to make playstyles other than hordes of boyz viable - in that I think they've succeeded, but maybe too well as boyz horde doesn't have a lot to recommend itself. New mob rule benefits smaller units at the expense of larger ones, and making the +1 attack army-wide for 2 turns rather than being only for boyz and only for 20+ models is a huge upgrade for a lot of units - stormboyz, trukk boyz, nobz, and meganobz are probably the biggest beneficiaries here (and maybe the new beast snaggas). Combined with choppas getting ap1 now and how easy it is to get +1 to hit, smaller units will be a real threat (at least for a couple of turns), and I can see a Goff stormboyz horde being devastating for opponents that aren't prepared for it.
On the downside, the changes to mob rule make it a lot less appealing to take big units of boyz, to the point there's really no reason to take one unit of 30 instead of 3 units of 10.
They've also declared war on re-rolls that are unlikely to do anything - this is overall a positive change, since half of DDD (always hit on 6) is a general rule in 9th anyway. The days of counting your sixes and rerolling them for one or two extra hits at most are thankfully over. This is a very slight nerf to certain units, but the benefits of mini-rapid fire on other units and several key units like big meks going to BS 4+ significantly mitigates the downsides.
Overall, not a "break the game over its knee and laugh" codex like AdMech and DEldar, but probably a solid A-.
I agree with office_waaagh, the codex is taking away a lot but also giving a lot. I'm now definitely in the "this is like codex DG" camp. I can't wait to play it to see what works and what doesn't.
Oh, and I agree that the guy ranting about the white squig doesn't really seem to have a clue what he is talking about. Going full tilt over a pure melee model that moves 10" and doesn't have fly doesn't seem very well informed to me.
Skragbad is a very good character that will do a lot in some matches against MSU armies (removing 4 custodes in the same attacks for example) but then will do 0 in your next 3 matches, cuz will reach anything and the enemy will run of him
Jidmah wrote: I agree with office_waaagh, the codex is taking away a lot but also giving a lot. I'm now definitely in the "this is like codex DG" camp. I can't wait to play it to see what works and what doesn't.
Oh, and I agree that the guy ranting about the white squig doesn't really seem to have a clue what he is talking about. Going full tilt over a pure melee model that moves 10" and doesn't have fly doesn't seem very well informed to me.
Yeah M10 with no fly is why I'm not so hot on the squig riders. I think I prefer warbikers just for pure speed.
I'm typically Goff green tide kinda guy so I'll need to rework what I'm thinking when it comes to the best way of setting up boyz.
Jidmah wrote: I agree with office_waaagh, the codex is taking away a lot but also giving a lot. I'm now definitely in the "this is like codex DG" camp. I can't wait to play it to see what works and what doesn't.
Oh, and I agree that the guy ranting about the white squig doesn't really seem to have a clue what he is talking about. Going full tilt over a pure melee model that moves 10" and doesn't have fly doesn't seem very well informed to me.
Yeah M10 with no fly is why I'm not so hot on the squig riders. I think I prefer warbikers just for pure speed.
I'm typically Goff green tide kinda guy so I'll need to rework what I'm thinking when it comes to the best way of setting up boyz.
I'm thinking of just bolting a squig boss and two nob squigs onto my list, and just using them as a self contained, reasonably fast, MW dealing spearhead. Hopefully them backed up by a mob of MANz coming from a tellyporta should absolutely devastate whatever they hit.
I'm thinking (assuming trukkboys can be spammed);
Warboss (With Brutal and the Killa Klaw it should kill whatever it manages to charge)
Squigboss
Nob Squig x2
MANz (with killsaws, as with hit 'em harder more attacks they seem slightly better to my lizard brain)
Deffkoptas (as many as I can justify)
Trukkboys (as many as I can justify)
Whatever is left gets spent on Heavy Support slots for more shooting punch
On Killsaws on MANz, I think it's more or less salt to taste.
45 versus 35 which is a .77 repeating cost ratio.
For that you get 4 versus 3 attacks per model, or 5 versus 4 attacks on waaagh.
3/4 = .75
4/5 = .8
And you're exchanging 2D flat for D3 damage and -4.
On average with 4 killsaws that's 1.66 unsaved wounds on MEQ for 45 points, with 2/3 chance to kill them outright. On average, you would kill one MEQ. 1.66*.66 = 1.0956. Spare wounds at D1 would be .55, so over a unit of 5 you'd knock off another Marine on average with D1 attacks.
Be warned, 3 power klaw attacks is 1.033 unsaved wounds on MEQ, or an average of one dead MEQ per klaw model in CC.
You'd also obviously lose the shooting profile which is pretty awful anyway. Average of .33 wounds on MEQ in dakka range, with no cover save, per kustom shoota. Whatever. I can see why it costs 0.
I think Waaagh actually favors the klaws as you get more attacks per point spent with more models. You could get roughly ten klaw MANz for the same cost as just under 8 killsaw MANz, for a total of 6 extra attacks without Waaagh and a total of 8 extra attacks with Waaagh.
Spoiler:
8 Killsaw MANz vs MEQ .5*.83*4*.66
1.0956 * 8 = 8.74648 dead MEQ from 2 damage
.5*.83*4*.33
.5478
4.38 dead MEQ from 1 damage
10 PKMANz vs MEQ .5*.83*.83*3
1.033
10.33 dead
So Killsaws are actually more efficient in damage output without Waaagh on a point for point basis even against MEQs but lose 2 models and 6 wounds for the same points.
And, actually, with Waaagh too.
Waaagh!
8 Killsaw MANz vs MEQ .5*.83*5*.66
1.3695 * 8 = 10.956 dead MEQ from 2 damage
Excited too. As someone commented BAs WL trait where you can move a Vehicle into Reserve and pop it back for a Ramming Speed charge is a nice 2 for 1. You counter the opponents deploy (no Trukk full or Nobz here anymore) and get a new vector of attack.
Fricken a man. Went live in US. I was able to get in because of the online queue and because I was 7 min late I couldn't get my card info in quick enough and it sold out.
Kommandos have a 3+ in cover? I know we've been lamenting the loss of their cheap late game objective grabbing, but a bunch of t5 3+ models that can turn around and lash out with a bunch of S4 +1 to wound ap-2 hits from a forward position seems like a really good tool to have.
My problem with kommandos is infiltrating and not deepstriking, but for deepstrikes I've got already stormboyz... So i will be able to do octarius anyways and engage in all fronts.
For me, the key of this is stormboying primary objetives of my opponent with blue gits ROFLMAO
addnid wrote: I wonder if truckboy lootas could have some play ?
I don't see any benefit? Well, I see a marginal one in that it gets you an extra 8" of range if you're trying to get within 24" for Dakka, but that feels like a bad tactic for fragile Lootas.
My Bad, boyz and nobz only can be truckboyz and gain +1 to hit when shooting from a trukk. Oh well, too bad. I think for my first game I will just use 90 Goff boyz, Thraka, bikerz, killa kanz with rokkits and mek gunz.
We still don’t know if we have an easy secondary but probably 2 or 3 mobs of 5 kommandos and the same for stormboyz will have to be fitted in.
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Kebabcito wrote: My problem with kommandos is infiltrating and not deepstriking, but for deepstrikes I've got already stormboyz... So i will be able to do octarius anyways and engage in all fronts.
For me, the key of this is stormboying primary objetives of my opponent with blue gits ROFLMAO
This does sound great. Can we still launch them from trukks for that extra 3 inch move ? We should soon find out…
TedNugent wrote: On Killsaws on MANz, I think it's more or less salt to taste.
Looking at them, Kans might actually be a viable replacement for MANz if you're leaning into your elite slots and have the room in heavy. They're faster, get the guarantee of more damage per hit without spending CP on Hit Em Harder, and they also get the bonus of having an actually viable shooting attack in rokkits, or more chaff clearing melee attacks in skorchas. Scrag Em also boosts their attacks.
However better LD and save on MANz, and access to Big Krumpaz and Hit Em Harder might make them the more reliable choice.
:EDIT:
Any news on whether Dakka weapons function like assault weapons or not?
addnid wrote: I wonder if truckboy lootas could have some play ?
I don't see any benefit? Well, I see a marginal one in that it gets you an extra 8" of range if you're trying to get within 24" for Dakka, but that feels like a bad tactic for fragile Lootas.
My Bad, boyz and nobz only can be truckboyz and gain +1 to hit when shooting from a trukk. Oh well, too bad. I think for my first game I will just use 90 Goff boyz, Thraka, bikerz, killa kanz with rokkits and mek gunz.
Right, we both misread the rule. I forgot it specified Warboss, Boyz, and Nobs. You are misreading it and thinking that the occupants get +1 to hit. They don't - the Trukk does.
Da Jump is <Clan> CORE and is missing the INFANTRY keyword.
Bikes and Squigs can now jump
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pepi55 wrote: So is the new found hype including the expectation of grots gaining klan traits or is everyone skeptical on that?
Also, is the snagga box going to be shipped before the normal codex is released?
On the other thread someone said the codex release will be after the 13/14th of August because it is supposed to be released after some event apparently.
As for gretchin, I remain skeptical - both in the current codex as well as in the DG codex, rules like this can be found with separately with the detachment rules. I'm only going to believe it when I see that page not having such a rule in the book.
Hey guys, this is really stupid. We gonna make a 10 page discussion about the fragment of the rules. We don' t see secondaries. We dont see how clans/cultures/spec det. works. We don' t know how many of all startegems we see. We don' t see the stats of significant part of the units and we don' t even know, whether the rules appeared in the GW app was the final version or some “in progress” version before check and revision.
Do we know, when the pre-orderd box will be delivered?
Automatically Appended Next Post: We don' t even know exactly what dakka weapon mean. And as Jidmah said, it seams, the single codex will not be available before the half of the August.
Most of the tournaments in my area has a rule like “play with the rules 2 weeks old at least” to give the players with the new codex a chance to read it at least.
So it seems we gonna play with the new codex from the beginning of the September. It' s 6 weeks and couple of tournaments witht the old codex.
So relax. This is a juicy leak but without the whole context you can' t make a plan for the new army. You can just compare some datasheets with the old ones and yes, it sucks pretty often. Like deathskulls clan ability. I read it and need to have a drink. But it doesn' t mean, the codex sucks. You just can' t see how it works, because you don' t see the context.
Jidmah wrote: I agree with office_waaagh, the codex is taking away a lot but also giving a lot. I'm now definitely in the "this is like codex DG" camp. I can't wait to play it to see what works and what doesn't.
Oh, and I agree that the guy ranting about the white squig doesn't really seem to have a clue what he is talking about. Going full tilt over a pure melee model that moves 10" and doesn't have fly doesn't seem very well informed to me.
Yeah M10 with no fly is why I'm not so hot on the squig riders. I think I prefer warbikers just for pure speed.
I'm typically Goff green tide kinda guy so I'll need to rework what I'm thinking when it comes to the best way of setting up boyz.
squighog riders are core though, so you can call a waaagh from a normal warboss and give them advance and charge.
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Tomsug wrote: Hey guys, this is really stupid. We gonna make a 10 page discussion about the fragment of the rules. We don' t see secondaries. We dont see how clans/cultures/spec det. works. We don' t know how many of all startegems we see. We don' t see the stats of significant part of the units and we don' t even know, whether the rules appeared in the GW app was the final version or some “in progress” version before check and revision.
Do we know, when the pre-orderd box will be delivered?
Automatically Appended Next Post: We don' t even know exactly what dakka weapon mean. And as Jidmah said, it seams, the single codex will not be available before the half of the August.
Most of the tournaments in my area has a rule like “play with the rules 2 weeks old at least” to give the players with the new codex a chance to read it at least.
So it seems we gonna play with the new codex from the beginning of the September. It' s 6 weeks and couple of tournaments witht the old codex.
So relax. This is a juicy leak but without the whole context you can' t make a plan for the new army. You can just compare some datasheets with the old ones and yes, it sucks pretty often. Like deathskulls clan ability. I read it and need to have a drink. But it doesn' t mean, the codex sucks. You just can' t see how it works, because you don' t see the context.
what do you mean. Im pretty sure the box i ordered from my local shop is ready for pick up the 24th of july? so thats when the earliest codex will be released
what do you mean. Im pretty sure the box i ordered from my local shop is ready for pick up the 24th of july? so thats when the earliest codex will be released
So than I' m confused. Jidmah wrote there, that codex alone will be sold around half of the august?
what do you mean. Im pretty sure the box i ordered from my local shop is ready for pick up the 24th of july? so thats when the earliest codex will be released
So than I' m confused. Jidmah wrote there, that codex alone will be sold around half of the august?
I preordered it this morning, before anyone else, at my shop (it opens online there before elsewhere), so if my shop gets one “for customer box” next Saturday, it is for me. All this to say we should be many here, including me, to be able to answer any question by next Saturday on precise details.
So we can already start planning. I just magnetised 7 killa Kans with rokkits. 40 points is really good for that load out
Snakebites Boyz and snakebite warbikes seem good against volkite contemptors, which is the current non ad mech non Drukari hotness (which is busted as fooook but obviously GW prefers to not make them 30 points more expensive). Perhaps traktor mech guns can help with that and raiders.
I don’t think we can take on ad mech, but who knows, perhaps a 100+ boyz list could if it goes first. 5++ (kff with strat) snakebite boyz, assuming 6+++ with painboy still a thing, must be quite tough to shift, even for ad mech
Any video reviews or Reddit leaks on
Specialist kulturs and clan kulturs stacking
What auras or buffs
Painboss/painboy, badrukk, maddoc, snikrot, Waagh banner, zagstrukk have?
Gargant head? (Although terrain hardly matters)
gungo wrote: Any video reviews or Reddit leaks on
Specialist kulturs and clan kulturs stacking
What auras or buffs
Painboss/painboy, badrukk, maddoc, snikrot, Waagh banner, zagstrukk have?
Gargant head? (Although terrain hardly matters)
Only one I've heard is WAAAGH banner is the same effect as it is now.
gungo wrote: Any video reviews or Reddit leaks on
Specialist kulturs and clan kulturs stacking
What auras or buffs
Painboss/painboy, badrukk, maddoc, snikrot, Waagh banner, zagstrukk have?
Gargant head? (Although terrain hardly matters)
Only one I've heard is WAAAGH banner is the same effect as it is now.
Yes, and from what I hear it doesn't have the Core limitation like the Warboss' version.
So a +1 to hit melee aura that doesn’t stack with the various warbosses +1 to hit melee auras, and doesn’t stack with the snagga +1 to hit melee auras, or the freebooter +1 to hit aura or the several other strats and ability +1 to hit auras…seriously wtfgw… you would think maybe change it to +1 to wound or reroll 1 to hit or anything diffrent.
gungo wrote: So a +1 to hit melee aura that doesn’t stack with the various warbosses +1 to hit melee auras, and doesn’t stack with the snagga +1 to hit melee auras, or the freebooter +1 to hit aura or the several other strats and ability +1 to hit auras…seriously wtfgw… you would think maybe change it to +1 to wound or reroll 1 to hit or anything diffrent.
It gives a source for +1 to hit in melee for vehicles, since none of our vehicles are Core. Snakebite Snaggas would probably have been out of control if there was a third source of +1 to wound for them, there'd be nothing in the game they couldn't wound on a 2+.
gungo wrote: So a +1 to hit melee aura that doesn’t stack with the various warbosses +1 to hit melee auras, and doesn’t stack with the snagga +1 to hit melee auras, or the freebooter +1 to hit aura or the several other strats and ability +1 to hit auras…seriously wtfgw… you would think maybe change it to +1 to wound or reroll 1 to hit or anything diffrent.
It gives a source for +1 to hit in melee for vehicles, since none of our vehicles are Core. Snakebite Snaggas would probably have been out of control if there was a third source of +1 to wound for them, there'd be nothing in the game they couldn't wound on a 2+.
Mekboss buzzgrob has a +1to hit aura for that too and it works on ranged atks! (Dreads not buggies)
Honestly my main gripe is either Waagh banner or warboss needs to be changed to reroll 1 to hit… there is literally no thought to the dozen plus +1 to hit melee auras. And we will already have a mandatory warboss version in every detachment. Making the Waagh banner redundant.
what do you mean. Im pretty sure the box i ordered from my local shop is ready for pick up the 24th of july? so thats when the earliest codex will be released
So than I' m confused. Jidmah wrote there, that codex alone will be sold around half of the august?
If you pre-ordered the box today, you get your codex next week. If you didn't, you get in late August. Totally awesome and fair to everyone... not.
agreed theres a lot other things they could do than rerolls.
But at the same token i'd take a reroll over what 3 sources of +1 to hit i can easily use now?
-1 to hit in melee is rare, thats the only time more sources of +1 would help
what do you mean. Im pretty sure the box i ordered from my local shop is ready for pick up the 24th of july? so thats when the earliest codex will be released
So than I' m confused. Jidmah wrote there, that codex alone will be sold around half of the august?
If you pre-ordered the box today, you get your codex next week. If you didn't, you get in late August. Totally awesome and fair to everyone... not.
Standalone codex release could be as late as sometime in September. Here's what the recent "Preorder Beast Snaggas" article from today states:
Please note that the Orlando leg of the US Open takes place after the release of the Beast Snagga Orks Army Set, but before the stand-alone codex is available. To make the tournament fair for any Warbosses who might miss out on the boxed set, the current Ork codex will be used at this event. Don’t worry, you’ll have plenty of opportunities to unleash your new Beast Snaggas at future tournaments.
Checking the dates for the US Open, the Orlando Open is August 13-15.
The next official event after that is the Warhammer Open in New Orleans, October 1-3.
That still gives a window of roughly 6 weeks for the codex to release on it's own. Assuming of course that the Beast Snagga article failed to mention the New Orleans Open because the codex should be available for everyone by then.
Vineheart01 wrote: agreed theres a lot other things they could do than rerolls.
But at the same token i'd take a reroll over what 3 sources of +1 to hit i can easily use now?
-1 to hit in melee is rare, thats the only time more sources of +1 would help
Personally I would leave the +1 to hit for buzzgrob, freebooters, tankbustas, snaggas, you can even leave it for the Waagh banner nob since that will allow people to pick up another aura of it if needed somewhere…
But I would turn the multiple warboss varients into a reroll 1 aura… mostly because most warboss are already 2+ to hit unless they have a PK but also because reroll 1 to hit is the only aura that prevents Kustom blastas from mortal wounding your boyz.
what do you mean. Im pretty sure the box i ordered from my local shop is ready for pick up the 24th of july? so thats when the earliest codex will be released
So than I' m confused. Jidmah wrote there, that codex alone will be sold around half of the august?
If you pre-ordered the box today, you get your codex next week. If you didn't, you get in late August. Totally awesome and fair to everyone... not.
Agreed on the no rerolls thing, it's not an Orky thing to begin with, we ain't no sissy spehss mahreens.
I would have preferred the WAAAGH! Banner give us +1A aura bubble, or some kind of ability that is triggered in the command phase where you can choose a unit within 6" of the Banner and they treat it as if though they have the benefits of a WAAAGH! (the first stage version) being called that turn. Could make sure a key unit gets that consistent boost.
-1 to hit in melee is rare, thats the only time more sources of +1 would help
Power klaws and killsaws still come with -1 to hit, so you could stack the +1's and get meganobz or PK nobz hitting on 2+. Or just have multiple sources spread out so you can hand the buff out to more places at once I suppose.
I haven't seen the Waaagh! banner in the leaks yet that I can recall, do we know for sure that it hasn't changed to some other effect?
I am impressed by the stats of the 'Uge choopa, I probably will keep the axe on my soon-to-be-converted AOS warboss ( into a Mega-armoured Boss).
Maybe don't even need to change it to the killchoopa relic.
1. It ' s hard to make a serious review from the fragments and don' t look like a fool as the fullcodex drop.
2. Those, who makes an interesting reviews have one copy of the codex already and contract with GW “we give you the book earlier and you shut up until oficial release”. This is a standard procedure with any kind of stuff - movies, books, etc., I would be surprised warhammer is something different.
Btw. such people have to have a super fun watching this speculations and knowing the full codex
The full codex has gone up for pre-order in the beast Snagga box. So it’s usually the time reviews go up.
EDIT: But maybe the box with the book going up for pre-order don’t technically count as the usual time of the NDA end point, as it’s slightly awkward compared to the book releasing by itself, while this is an early limited time box.
gungo wrote: So a +1 to hit melee aura that doesn’t stack with the various warbosses +1 to hit melee auras, and doesn’t stack with the snagga +1 to hit melee auras, or the freebooter +1 to hit aura or the several other strats and ability +1 to hit auras…seriously wtfgw… you would think maybe change it to +1 to wound or reroll 1 to hit or anything diffrent.
It gives a source for +1 to hit in melee for vehicles, since none of our vehicles are Core. Snakebite Snaggas would probably have been out of control if there was a third source of +1 to wound for them, there'd be nothing in the game they couldn't wound on a 2+.
Mekboss buzzgrob has a +1to hit aura for that too and it works on ranged atks! (Dreads not buggies)
Honestly my main gripe is either Waagh banner or warboss needs to be changed to reroll 1 to hit… there is literally no thought to the dozen plus +1 to hit melee auras. And we will already have a mandatory warboss version in every detachment. Making the Waagh banner redundant.
Unfortunately, if I am not mistaken, Buzzgob doesn’t have an aura, he has “select one at the command phase”, so for his price tag I wonder if he is worth it. Maybe ish?
Assuming the warboss's +1 aura self applies, wouldn't the klaw be better than the huge Choppa anyway? X2 versus +3.
It's X2 -3 2D -1 to hit now.
Also, huge note, in case anyone missed it - it's been confirmed that subkulturs will replace klan rules for those units, so you can't stack Goff with Trukk boyz, etc. That's a big deal and presents a big opportunity cost.
Also, huge note, in case anyone missed it - it's been confirmed that subkulturs will replace klan rules for those units, so you can't stack Goff with Trukk boyz, etc. That's a big deal and presents a big opportunity cost.
I think that is a fair deal if you take the subkultur on units that don’t really need the Klan abilities, like Goff Manz or Tankbustas.
what do you mean. Im pretty sure the box i ordered from my local shop is ready for pick up the 24th of july? so thats when the earliest codex will be released
So than I' m confused. Jidmah wrote there, that codex alone will be sold around half of the august?
If you pre-ordered the box today, you get your codex next week. If you didn't, you get in late August. Totally awesome and fair to everyone... not.
i know. it sucks they hold back the codex JUST because they can.
Battlewagon 6 attacks 120 T7 and 3+
deff rolla 15
ard case 15 points +1T lose open top
Ghazghkull takes up 18/20 models but can be transported
Seems like a pretty good deal
Gunwagon seems kinda dumb, 175 with a killcannon which is heavy D6 shots blast S8 AP2 2D, can add lobba and big shootas for 5p apiece, +1 BS on KC
I'm not seeing a power klaw on the warboss, which is ridiculous. The profile says big choppa, it's 90 zogging points and forces you to take a kombi weapon.
They're saying they can take the klaw but it's either been cropped off the sheet grabs or it isn't on the app.
Note: Zogrodd, like Ghaz, can be taken in any detachment, he just does not benefit from the clan rules.
This was said before but only 1 warboss per detachment. Complete trash.
Megaboss is looking like the autotake for only 25 p over the regular warboss and a far superior profile with +1 wound and a 2+/5++ with a better weapon. You could take a relic weapon on the boss, but I like how the huge choppa frees you up to take a defensive relic if you want to, and the 5++ means you lose less opportunity cost to take an offensive relic besides. It's just way more flexible for what you pay. If you can take the klaw my opinion may change, as at least the klaw gets +1 to hit from the aura and is then superior to the huge choppa, freeing you up to take a 4++ relic or WT.
Still mad there's nothing about Cybork bodies.
Painboss:
80
7"
3+ S5 T5 5W 4A Ld8 4+/6++ Power Snappa
Beast Snagga Klaw 5p upgrade S+4 -3 AP 2D -1 to hit
Beast Snagga (e.g. 6++, +1 to hit vehi or monst)
Can ONLY heal Beast Snagga within clan in 3"
6+++ aura to all units, not snagga locked
But he's nerfed hard. We cannot heal him. No +1 attack aura. No advance and charge. No good moral aura.
yeah and no, goffs kulture now gets extra HITS on 6's not extra attacks with +1 strength on a charge, in addition to a stratagem unbriddled carnage giving extra HITS on 5 & 6's for core and character units.
Anyone running goffs will come out of this codex ok
Rare buffs in an otherwise underwhelming codex..........the stratagems in particular have been nerfed very badly
The mega armor warboss has a Uge’ choppa not big choppa..
It’s essentially a powerklaw without the -1 to hit
Uge’ choppa-
+3 str (on a 6str warboss), -3 ap, 2d
The difference of str 9 (or 10 for charging goffs) to 12 is only viable for wounding on titanic units with 9 or higher toughness (extremely rare)… no need to be upset about no powerklaw..
The difference of str 9 (or 10 for charging goffs) to 12 is only viable for wounding on titanic units with 9 or higher toughness (extremely rare)… no need to be upset about no powerklaw..
S12 wounds on 2s models with T5 or T6 actually, S9 only on 3s but on the charge it wounds on 2s models on T5 at least. Da Killa Klaw is far superior than a 'uge Choppa.
I get the feeling that GW didn't send any of the "man read book" people a review copy.
The cynical gremlin in the back of my mind thinks they might know the codex is a whiff and didn't want the ork player base getting their hands on it before pre-ordering the boxed set.
But I suspect I'm giving them a bit too much credit.
Hunta rig 160
Snagged
Each time this model makes an attack with its stikka kannon, if an enemy non-titanic vehicle or monster loses any wounds, roll a D6. On a 4+ they cannot finish any type of move more than 12" from this model until the start of your next turn.
Open topped, ramshackle, ere we go.
15 transport capacity, SNAGGA LOCKED
Stikka kannon Heavy 1 S8 AP-2 D3 reroll hits against vehicles or monsters
3+/6++
T8 16W 6 A S6
CCW - Savage horns - S+1 AP-2 D3 4 additional attacks each time you fight
Saw blades
S+2 AP-2 D2
Kinda meh compared to the Bonebreaka TBH just because it's snagga locked. Probably superior for Snaggas. Degrades from 6A to D6 then D3 similar to BW.
Gets an additional 4 attacks S5 AP-1 D1
Comparison:
Bonebreaka gets 6+D6 or 9.5 average attacks 2+ S9 AP2 D2 attacks degrading to D6+D6 then D3+D6 Average 4.32 wounds at 2 damage or 8.64 dead MEQ
Hunta Rig gets 6 AP-2 S8 2d attacks
4 S7 AP-2 3d attacks
4 S5 AP-1 1d attacks
Average 4.2 damage
Average 3.3 damage
Average .87 unsaved wounds
Total 7.5 dead MEQ .87 unsaved additional wounds
Gets a free 'eavy Lobba and Stikka Kannon, with 15 transport capacity so technically that's all a bonus, but both are heavy and chances to hit anything pretty low since it wants to be in combat.
TedNugent wrote: Hunta rig 160
Snagged
Each time this model makes an attack with its stikka kannon, if an enemy non-titanic vehicle or monster loses any wounds, roll a D6. On a 4+ they cannot finish any type of move more than 12" from this model until the start of your next turn.
Open topped, ramshackle, ere we go.
15 transport capacity, SNAGGA LOCKED
Stikka kannon Heavy 1 S8 AP-2 D3 reroll hits against vehicles or monsters
3+/6++
T8 16W 6 A S6
CCW - Savage horns - S+1 AP-2 D3 4 additional attacks each time you fight
Saw blades
S+2 AP-2 D2
Kinda meh compared to the Bonebreaka TBH just because it's snagga locked. Probably superior for Snaggas. Degrades from 6A to D6 then D3 similar to BW.
Gets an additional 4 attacks S5 AP-1 D1
Comparison:
Bonebreaka gets 6+D6 or 9.5 average attacks 2+ S9 AP2 D2 attacks degrading to D6+D6 then D3+D6 Average 4.32 wounds at 2 damage or 8.64 dead MEQ
Hunta Rig gets 6 AP-2 S8 2d attacks
4 S7 AP-2 3d attacks
4 S5 AP-1 1d attacks
Average 4.2 damage
Average 3.3 damage
Average .87 unsaved wounds
Total 7.5 dead MEQ .87 unsaved additional wounds
Gets a free 'eavy Lobba and Stikka Kannon, with 15 transport capacity so technically that's all a bonus, but both are heavy and chances to hit anything pretty low since it wants to be in combat.
You can do some weeeird stuff with it because of the Character rule, though. It can be your Warlord and take Warlord traits, (and it's eligible for most of them), Relics (the gitbones was obviously intended but there's other things you can do with it), you can cast Fists of Gork on it, it's eligible for character-targeting stratagems.
I don't expect it to last, it was obviously unintended and some of the stuff you can do is silly, actually rather dangerous, and just all around unintuitive for the kind of unit it is. But enjoy it while it's there.
kingbbobb wrote: lol for 2cp i can inlflict smite on my own units to stop them fleeing
Why would I ever do that if just auto-passing morale is also 2CP?
Sure, if multiple units are potentially failing, but still.
Come on GW.
You can only use the generic strat once per battle so this would let you save a unit later in the battle if needed
it is so situational you will never use it,
range is 3"
gretchin = no, so you can't use it on kans
for boys or single wound infantry you would need to have 18 taking an attrition test for it to be even considered.
for multi wound units like meganobs - ok i concede might be of some use, but only really if its a big unit of 10
kingbbobb wrote: lol for 2cp i can inlflict smite on my own units to stop them fleeing
Why would I ever do that if just auto-passing morale is also 2CP?
Sure, if multiple units are potentially failing, but still.
Come on GW.
range is terrible aswell within 3".....these stratagems are terrible
Worst stratagems I've seen in any codex including the 8th edition codexes.
They seem rushed, untested and largely illogical.
Going through the ones I've seen
The Clan based ones
2 CP Unbridled Carnage - Goff core or character gets extra hits on 5+ (rather than the standard Goff 6+)
Solid strat but feels like 2 CP is over costed
2 CP Wreckas - core or character +1 to wound against vehicles (shooting or fight)
Again decent if unspectacular and should have been 1 CP.
1 CP Mystic chanting - Deny a power with any snakebite unit
Actually reasonable
1 CP Get Da Loot - Obsec for any infantry unit
Reasonable
1 CP Drive-by-dakka - Evil Sunz unit shoot then move in shooting phase
Solid
1 CP Showing off - Bad Moonz, Exploding 6's on shooting. This is feel bads, taking a powerful stratagem that allowed us to shoot twice with a unit of Looterz and turning into the old dakka dakka ability that we used to get baked in, at least its only 1 CP but nobody is going to
get excited about this
1 CP Ded Sneaky - Blood Axes. if non meganob infantry < 3" from the edge of the board, go into strategic reserve
Reasonable
So the Clan ones all told aren't terrible, they just aren't exciting, and they feel lazy. there is none of the wow factor you get in other codexes.
But it gets worse....much worse
Generic Strats
2 CP More Dakka - Dakka weapons count as within half range - overcosted garbage and more feel bads given how important
this strat was in previous editions. Looking forwards to playing against Harlequins/Drukhari and on heavily dense terrain and my whole army
needing 6's to hit. Which is kind of why More Dakka existed in the first place...
2 CP Ramming Speed - Ork vehicle charges 3D6 and 2+ chance for D3 MW impact hits. - Still very solid. Did it really need to be 2 CP though?
1/2 CP Careen - ork vehicle moves 6" before being destroyed/exploding. 2 CP on wagons/titanics - Fun little stratagem but should never cost 2 CP to do a few mortals even on the bigger units.
2 CP Cloud of SMoke - Speed freek vehicle unit -1 to hit all speed freek vehicles <6" - Solid little strat for clumping up a few vehicles under a "Malenthrope" effect, really didn't need to be 2 CP.
2 CP Hit em harder - +1 damage to meganobz in melee - solid but did this really need to be 2 CP?
1 CP Lumbering strides - Gork/Mork or stompa gets to re-roll one dice when charging - yet more feel bads, as they taunt us with our old ere we go rule and make it cost 1 CP and locked out to certain unit types.... Isn't 40k meant to be fun? what's with all these feel bads GW?
2 CP Breakin Heads - Morale phase auto pass within 3" of Nobs/Warboss after taking test. D3 mortals. Another previously baked in ability becoming a stratagem. On what planet is this a 2 CP strat? I don't get the logic on this one at all. On big units of boyz (if anyone feels incentivized to still run them - though I don't see why anyone would) If you go below half strength and aren't within mob up range of another unit of orks you probably still don't pay 2 CP for this. Utterly nonsense stratagem.
1 CP Burn em all - Burna Bommer Skorcha rokkits shoot, 1 MW to each unit within <3" - what is this? this is laughable. Is this supposed to make us feel better about losing Flying eadbutt? I'm yet to even find an Ork player who spends the 10 points to upgrade a burna bomba to have worthless Skorcha rokkits. Pure garbage.
1 CP Get stuck in ladz - Boyz and snagga boyz pile in/consolidate +3" costs 2 CP if the unit is 11+ Models. +6" movement can potentially be a powerful ability but 2 CP for units over 11+ where you really want this ability to get everybody stuck in is just more feel bads. Did they really want Ork players feeling so bad about stratagems? These are supposed to excite the players aren't they? The absolute comedy of this is the fact that we have to spend 2 CP to pile in for our units above 11 models but Skitari rangers/Vanguard can auto/hit wound on a 4+ or double shoot for 1 CP. Feels totally play tested and balanced (you do it to yourselves GW)
2 CP Gun Crazy showoffs - Flash Gitz can shoot again at closest target. Did this really need to have the clause that you have to shoot at the closest target? And again you've taken away what flash gitz could do if automatically if they rolled a 6 and turned it into a stratagem. This isn't fun GW, this comes across as lazy.
2 CP Snagga grapple - one beast snagga/boyz unit - non titanic enemy can't fall back on a 4+ - Are you honestly joking with this one? 2 CP for a 50% chance to lock a unit into combat? I have no words....
1 CP Tankbusta bomb - keyworded unit one model makes one attack, 2D3 mortal wounds if it hits a vehicle. Another random strat that has a 1 in 3 chance of doing absolutely nothing. Just keep heapin on the feel bads, particularly when you consider we used to have a stratagem for an entire squad to throw Tankbusta's bombs, and our ork boyz used to come with 1 for every 10 models for free. But it seems we can't have nice things. Can I continue to use the 8th edition codex in tournaments please?
1 CP cuttin flames - burna boyz -2 AP in melee. unexciting, used to be a baked in feature of burna's that they were power weapons. lazy, uninspiring.
2 CP Da Bigger dey iz - Beast Snagga warboss gets +2 damage against titanics - this is just so niche and such a waste of a stratagem that could have been filled with something actually useful. Comedy that's its 2 CP.
1 CP - Extra Gubbinz - extra relic - standard, every codex has it, nothing to say on this one
1 CP - Big Boss - extra warlord trait - again standard fare, every codex has it.
2 CP Force Field Boosta - KFF becomes 5+ invul in enemy shooting - Just keep rubbing in those delicious feel bads GW...."Hey guys you can spend 2 CP to do what your KFF used to do for free? aren't you excited?"
2 CP Tellyporta - non monster ork unit PL 20 or less deep strikes - still overcosted and in a world where literally anything can strategically reserve un-exciting.
1 CP Tide of Muscle - ignore modifiers on charge - Actually like this and can see it coming in useful
2 CP Orks is never beaten - Character fights on death - standard, glad they kept it in.
1 CP unstoppable momentum - smasha squig charges again if out of melee after charge phase - tricksy can see applications but so very very niche
2 CP grot shields - start of enemy shooting can't target one ork unit if one selected grot unit <6" and closer. I like this, but really not convinced it needed to be 2 CP. It's not blowing my knickers off with excitement.
1 CP Groundshaker shells - eavy lobber gun reduces movement or something.....who really cares? super niche
2 CP Tough as squig hide - only wounded on 4+ for beast snaggas. Why is our transhuman 2 CP? can't we have anything remoteley overpowered? GW game devs you're aware of the stratagems other factions have right?
2 CP Monster hunterz - one vehicle/monster is +1 to wound for 3 beast snagga units. - boring, uninspiring guff. And 2 CP again...
that's all the ones I've seen so far.
Not sure how they've managed to make less inspiring stratagems than our 8th edition codex had.
yeah i dont get why so many strats are 2cp for us. 2cp strats are supposed to be few, reserved for the big stuff that makes a huge impact.
Grot Shields is not a freaking huge impact.
In general our strats feel pretty lame. They’re practically all CP2 as well.
Gut feeling is we are spending cp on pre fame strats and only a handful will see consistent use in game like fight on death. Maybe more dakka if you have a unit for it.
Some strats are pure garbage but...youre mad about stuff like "shoot again with flash gits for 2cp?" The old ability was never worth positioning the guys to trigger it, im using the new one every time my guys are on the fething board, 30x s6 ap-3 d2 shots for 2cp hell yeah.
Definitely feels like the power level of ork units is in their core stats, rather than special rules or stratagems. Theres still a bit we dont know, but if the specialist mobs really are both free and unlimited replacements of the normal <clan> abilities....orks are going to be quite powerful imo. Just not gonna be making great use of cp - just using it to pile on blunt offensive buffs lol.
New grot shields is spicy too in the world of obscuring terrains and true los. Hide some teeny grot models in a ruin out of true los, get a free no-shootsies for any other unit within 6"
Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.
Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.
2 CP Orks is never beaten - Character fights on death - standard, glad they kept it in.
this was nerfed aswell - you can only fight again if you didn't already fight......and it no longer applies to shooting
so basically someone has to charge you and kill you to use it
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Madjob wrote: Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.
Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.
you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol
basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol
the_scotsman wrote: Some strats are pure garbage but...youre mad about stuff like "shoot again with flash gits for 2cp?" The old ability was never worth positioning the guys to trigger it, im using the new one every time my guys are on the fething board, 30x s6 ap-3 d2 shots for 2cp hell yeah.
Definitely feels like the power level of ork units is in their core stats, rather than special rules or stratagems. Theres still a bit we dont know, but if the specialist mobs really are both free and unlimited replacements of the normal <clan> abilities....orks are going to be quite powerful imo. Just not gonna be making great use of cp - just using it to pile on blunt offensive buffs lol.
New grot shields is spicy too in the world of obscuring terrains and true los. Hide some teeny grot models in a ruin out of true los, get a free no-shootsies for any other unit within 6"
Not mad about that one, my point on that one is why does it need the caveat that you have to target the closest enemy? seems unnecessary on a 2 CP strat.
2 CP Orks is never beaten - Character fights on death - standard, glad they kept it in.
this was nerfed aswell - you can only fight again if you didn't already fight......and it no longer applies to shooting
so basically someone has to charge you and kill you to use it
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Madjob wrote: Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.
Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.
you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol
basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol
Madjob wrote: Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.
Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.
you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol
basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol
but they did go upto 3 wounds which i missed
And gained native -1 to hit against shooting, and automatic 6" advance, and +4 shots at half range. While dropping 2 points. Warbikers made out like thieves in this codex, and thankfully have a niche to fill that's not invalidated by Squighog Boyz.
Madjob wrote: Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.
Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.
you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol
basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol
but they did go upto 3 wounds which i missed
And gained native -1 to hit against shooting, and automatic 6" advance, and +4 shots at half range. While dropping 2 points. Warbikers made out like thieves in this codex, and thankfully have a niche to fill that's not invalidated by Squighog Boyz.
Agreed. I'll be running 2 units of 4 at 100 pts per unit to do the job that outriders were doing for marine players at the beginning of this edition. They can nip onto the objectives and demand to be shot at, and if your opponent ignores them they can threaten to tie up his/her shooting units in combat.
Madjob wrote: Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.
Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.
There is some potential with the following - Warboss gives +1 to hit, Big Choppas and PKs are cheaper, PKs have a better profile...
You can certainly take a choppa offhand with every special weapon, which means you could run big choppa+choppa for every model in the unit for 21 PPM. With Goffs, that's 3 Big Choppa attacks at S8 on the charge, plus a choppa hit at -1 AP and S6 per model. It certainly compares favorably to assault intercessors if nothing else. They still compare poorly with Meganobz when it comes to klaws because that's 26 points versus 35 points and they get a free kustom shoota with a 2+/3W, and Goffs do nothing for them.
I'm just thinking an easy mix for them would be a warboss in tow with 10 BC/C nobs for +2 to hit, 3 big choppa attacks wounding on 2's with 2 damage and -1 AP, or 4 with waaagh. It's nothing to sneeze at, but there are potentially better options. You could also easily do MSUs out of trukks with no loss in efficiency, still getting Waaagh and S8 on charge. Alternatively, you could use them as Trukk Boyz and use dual choppas or choppa+Klaws sprinkled in, and disembark after moving.
18 points sounds like a lot until you realize it's still twice as expensive as a boy, with a 4+ armor save and 2 wounds. In what planet is that bad or inefficient? Footslogging boyz aren't going to be a thing any more, and they're certainly better than MSU boyz, with the possible exception of Goff Boyz. You could say Snaggas, but I'd say 5 S5 AP-1 attacks compare favorably on a platform that is more than twice as durable and is only 7 points more.
Was the warboss' datasheets leaked already? I'm asking since I say the BM trait which is still a 4++ for him and Da Biggest Boss seems to be cut off. So our warboss is out of chance to get an invuln, again? Or maybe it's a built in 5++. Wartrike gained it, if I'm not wrong. Sure warboss with no invuln will hurt a lot.
And gained native -1 to hit against shooting, and automatic 6" advance, and +4 shots at half range. While dropping 2 points. Warbikers made out like thieves in this codex, and thankfully have a niche to fill that's not invalidated by Squighog Boyz.
They also fire with AP-1 in the waaagh turn, which can be nice on 10/6 S5 shots per model. To me they look pretty solid now.
Well, now I ´m totally confused. So the Codex alone will be available after 15th August. Oficially confirmed. This is super stupid. Scalpels likes it. Maybe GW has its own scalpel division and makes extra money on reselling its own stuff on ebay or idontknow…
Blackie wrote: Was the warboss' datasheets leaked already? I'm asking since I say the BM trait which is still a 4++ for him and Da Biggest Boss seems to be cut off. So our warboss is out of chance to get an invuln, again? Or maybe it's a built in 5++. Wartrike gained it, if I'm not wrong. Sure warboss with no invuln will hurt a lot.
All bosses seem to have a built in 5++, so there's that upgrade.
I also just noticed stormboyz are capped at 15 now.
Madjob wrote: Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.
Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.
you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol
basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol
but they did go upto 3 wounds which i missed
And gained native -1 to hit against shooting, and automatic 6" advance, and +4 shots at half range. While dropping 2 points. Warbikers made out like thieves in this codex, and thankfully have a niche to fill that's not invalidated by Squighog Boyz.
It's kind of insane how much cheaper and better all the buggies have gotten. I'll probably have both spare CPs and points despite running the same list.
Can't wait to see what they have done with the mek speshul, scrap jet, squig buggy and KMB definitely look vicious, SJD has pretty much stayed the same.
With warbikers and koptas also getting huge boosts, outrider detachments are looking veeery tempting.
The only question remaining is what clan to pick - but considering how meh all of them have become, might as well go back to blood axes, if only for the extra CP.
I just hope to mork that they don't force them to act as a single unit.
On the topic of stratagems, there is little surprise to me here. In 9th edition codices stratagems that provide damage buffs and other no-brainer stratagems all tend to be 2CP, 1CP tends to be reserved for situational, stratagems, unit specific ones or otherwise limited stratagems.
And yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but they aren't the norm.
Now that the dust has settled, I can’t see a list that I would enjoy to play other than trukk boys. It feels like they took away all the flavor of orks. The strats are absolute garbage. Horde boyz isn’t feasible with the nerfed mob rule. Nauts are titantic LoW. This sucks.
Jidmah wrote: It's kind of insane how much cheaper and better all the buggies have gotten. I'll probably have both spare CPs and points despite running the same list.
Can't wait to see what they have done with the mek speshul, scrap jet, squig buggy and KMB definitely look vicious, SJD has pretty much stayed the same.
With warbikers and koptas also getting huge boosts, outrider detachments are looking veeery tempting.
The only question remaining is what clan to pick - but considering how meh all of them have become, might as well go back to blood axes, if only for the extra CP.
I just hope to mork that they don't force them to act as a single unit.
On the topic of stratagems, there is little surprise to me here. In 9th edition codices stratagems that provide damage buffs and other no-brainer stratagems all tend to be 2CP, 1CP tends to be reserved for situational, stratagems, unit specific ones or otherwise limited stratagems.
And yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but they aren't the norm.
I definitely prefer stratagems giving you niche uses or flexibility over "do damage twice" and having strengths built into profiles.
Also hard agree on buggies, bikes, and koptas. I think some derivative of the buggy list with kommandoz and stormboyz will still have legs. In general I feel that if you want to do any shooting now, its gotta be on a vehicle. Lootas are still fragile and 17PPM and youre stuck taking a 17PPM big shoota or KMB.
I'm still thinking about what to do with our troop situation. Big mobs feel bad with no morale protection. Maybe a return of the BW/Trukk playstyle.
I'm curious to see what the kustom jobs look like, if we can still take sparkly bitz for the +1 to hit then kans with rokkits or dreads with rokkits and KMB's are going to look very interesting. Also the punishment the wazbom blastajet can throw out now looks amazing, and at bs4 too
In general I think the overall power level of the orks will hinge on two pieces of info we don't have yet:
1) Do Dakka weapons count as Assault weapons? (mostly this affects whether Evil Sunz will be really good or quite trash)
2) How do Specialist Mobs actually work? How are they limited? it kind of seems like since theyre included with the list of characters who don't take away your clan rules that Specialist Mobs will replace <Clan> but otherwise not cost points or be limtied, which would be EXTREMELY EXTREMELY STRONG.
if you were able to say "my <clan> is Goffs, so thats all these big 30-blocks of boyz, all these melee units...Oh, but these Tankbustas are Boom Boyz, and these burna boyz are pyromaniacs, etc etc" or "Clan=Freebootas, but all the boyz are Trukk Boyz"
Stratagems are absolutely a weak point. it seems to me the best strategy is just to build "CP spenders" into the list - a 10-man unit of Flash Gitz, a 10-man unit of Meganobz, a KFF mek you're just going to use the KFF booster strat on every turn, units of 10 grots whose only goal is to sneak up behind a mid-board ruin out of true LOS to try and get off good Grot Shields, etc.
but the core stats of our gak are SOLID. Even units like Burna Boyz, which were trash before, I'm looking at like "a full-strength flamer for 11pts in an army with cheap open topped transports? .....OK!" bonebreakas with T8 3+ and 6+D6 deffrolla attacks for 175pts? A warboss in mega armor with 2+ 5++ with effectively a no-minus-to-hit power klaw for 115pts? 40pt killa kanz with D3 shot blast rokkit launchas? 10pt Kommandos with 3+sv in light cover and real infiltrate? You have my attention, codex orks.
Dendarien wrote: I'm still thinking about what to do with our troop situation. Big mobs feel bad with no morale protection. Maybe a return of the BW/Trukk playstyle.
Since there is no more advantage in running 30 boyz, most people probably won't - just like in all edition prior to 8th. I'm fairly sure that the sweet spot isn't 20 anymore, but someone will math out the optimal amount of boyz compared to how many you lose to more. Personally, if feel like beast snagga boyz are rather powerful, so 220 for a unit that can actually flip objectives and some powerful stratagem support seems like a good deal. Hordes are probably going to rely on multiple smaller units On a budget, shoota boyz camping out with a rokkit might be decent, gretchin remain the "don't have points for anything else" option.
Something positive I noticed is that dread saws and kan weapons were scrapped. Felt bad to have models suddenly have different rules after you spend much time to collect the right bits for aestetic reasons.
I'm looking into doing squads of 10 Boyz/Snaggas. Maybe squads of 15 at a push. Having big squads is absolutely pointless now that all the bonuses for large units have been removed. I think Goffs and running as many small squads of Boyz/kommandos as possible is a viable tactic. Even if you lose a couple of squads of boyz there will be quite a few left to get into combat.
Goffs with exploding sixes in combat which has been improved vastly is a real boon for the Boyz in my opinion. Blobs of 30 are worthless now however.
the_scotsman wrote: Stratagems are absolutely a weak point. it seems to me the best strategy is just to build "CP spenders" into the list - a 10-man unit of Flash Gitz, a 10-man unit of Meganobz, a KFF mek you're just going to use the KFF booster strat on every turn, units of 10 grots whose only goal is to sneak up behind a mid-board ruin out of true LOS to try and get off good Grot Shields, etc.
I disagree - the stratagems look a lot like what DG got and there it's usually better to use more 1CP stratagems and only burn through 2CP when you get a significant advantage from it.
Sometimes it's good to take a minute and carefully read the entire unit entry before you start complaining.
Well, now I ´m totally confused. So the Codex alone will be available after 15th August. Oficially confirmed. This is super stupid. Scalpels likes it. Maybe GW has its own scalpel division and makes extra money on reselling its own stuff on ebay or idontknow…
They've literally said from the moment the Beast Snaggas box was originally announced that it would come with a special cover version of the codex and that the standalone codex would release at a later point.
So Interesting enough, the Kill Rig and Hunta Rig, if they wound a Flyer with their Harpoon and position themselves correctly, (behind the flyer) they auto kill it next movement phase. You have 8 inches to work with, but you can prevent them from moving more then 12 inches from you, which will kill them when they fail their 20 inch minimum.
Also of Note, Two such wagons can immobilize any vehicle or monster if you have one on each side and they both wound with their harpoons. As unlikely as it is, it is funny to picture two of them holding Morty back from crashing into something valuable.
Of additional note, is how Cheap a lot of our models are becoming, Killa Kanz going to 40 points with any loadout is amazing and Deff Dreads dropping to 85 with quad Klaw loadout will be nice. Meks being able to apply kustom jobs through an Action if they are near a Mek Workshop without impairing the vehicle is also interesting.
the_scotsman wrote: but the core stats of our gak are SOLID. Even units like Burna Boyz, which were trash before, I'm looking at like "a full-strength flamer for 11pts in an army with cheap open topped transports? .....OK!" bonebreakas with T8 3+ and 6+D6 deffrolla attacks for 175pts? A warboss in mega armor with 2+ 5++ with effectively a no-minus-to-hit power klaw for 115pts? 40pt killa kanz with D3 shot blast rokkit launchas? 10pt Kommandos with 3+sv in light cover and real infiltrate? You have my attention, codex orks.
Yeah I am really looking forward to no more d3 Burna Boyz and Bonebreakas becoming even more fun. Deffguns being Dakka 3+2 is also a solid improvement over what they used to be.
Running 30 boyz is probably a penalty now rather than a tactic.
Mob Rule does nothing for an individual squad, its now multiple squads in the same area (side note a minimum squad of nobz nearby triggers it which is kinda funny). They lost +1 attack at 20 Unless im blind (possible) i didnt see Green Tide strat so you cant bring them back at 30man strong either
Meanwhile, they suffer massive LD issues now and will have half strength at 15 models, an issue if theyre not right up against another squad that isnt half strength.
I legit dont see a single reason to run them in 30man blobs now. Transports or dont bother with boyz now imo.
Of additional note, is how Cheap a lot of our models are becoming, Killa Kanz going to 40 points with any loadout is amazing and Deff Dreads dropping to 85 with quad Klaw loadout will be nice. Meks being able to apply kustom jobs through an Action if they are near a Mek Workshop without impairing the vehicle is also interesting.
i wouldnt be surprised if the kan one is a typo. Base cost is probably accurate but why is a rokkit/kmb/grotzooka all 0pts swapout from a bigshoota? Nothing else does that, even the Deffdread is a +10pt per swap (125pts for a quad-rokkit/kmb dread) Dont get me wrong i love the idea of kanz being good but that feels fishy.
Blackie wrote: Was the warboss' datasheets leaked already? I'm asking since I say the BM trait which is still a 4++ for him and Da Biggest Boss seems to be cut off. So our warboss is out of chance to get an invuln, again? Or maybe it's a built in 5++. Wartrike gained it, if I'm not wrong. Sure warboss with no invuln will hurt a lot.
Just watch this
Megaboss gets a 5++, warboss gets 4+.
There are two relics which give a 4++ (one of which is actually mega armor only). Best Armor Teef Can Buy (WL) gives +1 armor save/4++.
Warboss sheet was cut off but I didn't even see a Power Klaw, let alone anything else of value. They want you to pay 5 points now for the attack squig. It's garbo. He comes with a Big Choppa and a Kombi Rokkit, and you can't downgrade the Kombi weapon to save points.
Realistically, you're going to use the Megaboss now.
Biggest Boss is for an additional Warlord trait, it's not the same. You have to take the WL trait or a relic for a 4++.
I find it kind of lazy that beast snagga warbosses gives an aura of +1 to hit to beast snaggas, when they have an inherent ability already to get +1 to against vehicles and monsters.
It means that fighting beast snaggas near a beast snagga boss often wont do any thing at all. Such an overlap in abilities seem kind of silly. I understand that you get +1 to hit near non vehicles and monsters, but its still a silly overlap i feel. Warbosses for beast snaggas should give something else than a +1 to hit.
Blackie wrote: Was the warboss' datasheets leaked already? I'm asking since I say the BM trait which is still a 4++ for him and Da Biggest Boss seems to be cut off. So our warboss is out of chance to get an invuln, again? Or maybe it's a built in 5++. Wartrike gained it, if I'm not wrong. Sure warboss with no invuln will hurt a lot.
Just watch this
Megaboss gets a 5++, warboss gets 4+.
There are two relics which give a 4++ (one of which is actually mega armor only). Best Armor Teef Can Buy (WL) gives +1 armor save/4++.
Warboss sheet was cut off but I didn't even see a Power Klaw, let alone anything else of value. They want you to pay 5 points now for the attack squig. It's garbo. He comes with a Big Choppa and a Kombi Rokkit, and you can't downgrade the Kombi weapon to save points.
Realistically, you're going to use the Megaboss now.
Biggest Boss is for an additional Warlord trait, it's not the same. You have to take the WL trait or a relic for a 4++.
The image they used for the warboss has a power klaw. He obviously starts with a big choppa and can upgrade to the klaw. Given that the two available warboss models have klaw/kombirokkit and big choppa/kombiscorcha that's probably the options.
Beardedragon wrote: I find it kind of lazy that beast snagga warbosses gives an aura of +1 to hit to beast snaggas, when they have an inherent ability already to get +1 to against vehicles and monsters.
It means that fighting beast snaggas near a beast snagga boss often wont do any thing at all. Such an overlap in abilities seem kind of silly. I understand that you get +1 to hit near non vehicles and monsters, but its still a silly overlap i feel. Warbosses for beast snaggas should give something else than a +1 to hit.
Or just being near the warboss helps you really get through any -1 to hit shenanigans.
Beardedragon wrote: I find it kind of lazy that beast snagga warbosses gives an aura of +1 to hit to beast snaggas, when they have an inherent ability already to get +1 to against vehicles and monsters.
It means that fighting beast snaggas near a beast snagga boss often wont do any thing at all. Such an overlap in abilities seem kind of silly. I understand that you get +1 to hit near non vehicles and monsters, but its still a silly overlap i feel. Warbosses for beast snaggas should give something else than a +1 to hit.
Or just being near the warboss helps you really get through any -1 to hit shenanigans.
Quite odd that we now seem to be more of an MSU - mechanised army.
And the horde army now is Ad Mech, go figure.
They literally took away every single incentive for being in big mobs.
Lost most of the benefits of mob rule
Lost the bonuses to weirdboy for having big units nearby
Lost the +1 A for more than 20 models
and lost the ability to re-grow a big unit.
We already had quality of life issues trying to get those big units into combat efficiently due to the base size change.
Can anyone think of a reason to play foot boyz at all now?
At least trukk/mechanized orks seems good, but a lot hinges of how the specialist thingy works.
I won't miss putting my back out having to move 200 lads but I'm not sure this was there intent.
gungo wrote: The mega armor warboss has a Uge’ choppa not big choppa..
It’s essentially a powerklaw without the -1 to hit
Uge’ choppa-
+3 str (on a 6str warboss), -3 ap, 2d
The difference of str 9 (or 10 for charging goffs) to 12 is only viable for wounding on titanic units with 9 or higher toughness (extremely rare)… no need to be upset about no powerklaw..
I just got done saying Megaboss is the auto include, and the regular warboss is garbo. Regular warboss cannot take huge choppa and is stuck with big choppa, hence why I was saying he was garbo. Bad armor save, no invulnerable save, bad weapon, 90 points base = no redeeming qualities outside of the same things megaboss gets.
Megaboss gets the nod due to -3 AP, +1W, 2+/5++ for 25 points. That's all.
Powerklaw on regular warboss would have at least given him something of value - perhaps it was cut off of the screen grabs, and he can still take it. Among other things, this would give him access to Da Killa Klaw. 3 damage and S 12 really is not the same as S9 2 damage.
Quite odd that we now seem to be more of an MSU - mechanised army.
And the horde army now is Ad Mech, go figure.
They literally took away every single incentive for being in big mobs.
Lost most of the benefits of mob rule
Lost the bonuses to weirdboy for having big units nearby
Lost the +1 A for more than 20 models
and lost the ability to re-grow a big unit.
We already had quality of life issues trying to get those big units into combat efficiently due to the base size change.
Can anyone think of a reason to play foot boyz at all now?
At least trukk/mechanized orks seems good, but a lot hinges of how the specialist thingy works.
I won't miss putting my back out having to move 200 lads but I'm not sure this was there intent.
I can totally see Green tide being a formation in the next campaign book with all the benefits we lost...
I love that the result of the wheely-bit on the painboss is that his move is 7".
"Say, Ork Players, I hear you saying "these new squig riders is great, but what would be better is a painboy that can almost, but not really keep up with them!"
2) How do Specialist Mobs actually work? How are they limited? it kind of seems like since theyre included with the list of characters who don't take away your clan rules that Specialist Mobs will replace <Clan> but otherwise not cost points or be limtied, which would be EXTREMELY EXTREMELY STRONG.
if you were able to say "my <clan> is Goffs, so thats all these big 30-blocks of boyz, all these melee units...Oh, but these Tankbustas are Boom Boyz, and these burna boyz are pyromaniacs, etc etc" or "Clan=Freebootas, but all the boyz are Trukk Boyz"
This has been clarified in another section, which lists Specialist units under the list that can be taken in another clan detachment, alongside Ghaz, etc.
E.g., you can take the Specialist unit without losing the clan bonus for the rest of the detachment. The specialist units only get their specialist bonus, and lose the clan bonus.
So you could have a goff detachment, but each boyz mob would either choose to be trukk boyz or goffs. The trukk boyz rule fully replaces the goff clan bonus for that unit.
Tiberius501 wrote: Wait, the Bonebreaka is 175pts? I heard it was now 200pts. I’d be stoked if it was 175.
Do we have it’s full datasheet now?
Yes and yes, 175
Tiberius501 wrote: Can it make its extra attacks without needing to charge?
1 - painboy and kff are now 'within' rather than 'wholly within' so you can have 3 30-blocks of boyz with that and a warboss in the center, all of which are easily getting the buffs
2 - psychic power buffs most notably warpath which I'm assuming is still in the mix
3 - can use 2cp ignore morale strat on whatever 30-block got attacked.
1 - painboy and kff are now 'within' rather than 'wholly within' so you can have 3 30-blocks of boyz with that and a warboss in the center, all of which are easily getting the buffs
2 - psychic power buffs most notably warpath which I'm assuming is still in the mix
3 - can use 2cp ignore morale strat on whatever 30-block got attacked.
Huh. It costs 2cp each turn but 60-90 Orks running up the board with 5++ seems really good.
I feel like a green tide still has some teeth, given the new goffs trait, 'within' KFF that you can spend CP to boost back up to a 5++ and painboy.
Ghazzy+Makari (since he's just a cheaper painboy who's harder to snipe and gets +2" movement)+KFF Mek+multiple 30 blocks of goff boyz still feels like it's got teeth.
Good matchup into DG, custodes, marines, necrons, bad matchup into admech...probably a decent matchup into drukhari? it's gonna be a 'I score, you try to kill a million T5 5++ 6+FNP models' race for sure.
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Kebabcito wrote: 90 orks will cost you 2 CP for moral each turn + 2 CP for passing morale once in the match + 2 CP for 5++ rofl, and they will cost 810 points.
That's called nerf sir
only when the morale roll is actually gonna hurt me. Ghazzy lets me ignore all mods, so if my opponent kils like 20/30 from a squad I'll just eat the ~2 models that will flee, whatever.
Ghaz+Makari+KFF Big Mek+4x30 boyz+a bunch of Kommandos seems like it's got potential for a good brick gak list.
You better throw fast that big waaagh, because if you don't do it, ghaz is annihilated turn 2 and no waaagh ROFL.
And, if somehow the enemy is able to remove ghaz from the board turn 1 (not so hard now that he doesn't heal himself and everyone do MW in charging phase) you are really fethed up
Kebabcito wrote: You better throw fast that big waaagh, because if you don't do it, ghaz is annihilated turn 2 and no waaagh ROFL.
And, if somehow the enemy is able to remove ghaz from the board turn 1 (not so hard now that he doesn't heal himself and everyone do MW in charging phase) you are really fethed up
You haven't heard? He can ride a Battlewagon now. But he aggressively takes up all the seats by himself.
so 9" scratch a unit gets a 5++ for 2 
