As you may have seen on other sites Febraury is all about the Dwarfs. So for you fans of the short and bearded get pumped. March will see the release of Imperial Knights. This year is shaping up to be a good one.
-Rik
These are the same guys who were 100% accurate on Space Marines and Dark Elves.
lord_blackfang wrote: These are the same guys who were 100% accurate on Space Marines and Dark Elves.
Careful though, they said dwarves for February then March the February. I'm really hoping they stay accurate, but contradicting themselves is a bad sign. Oh, they are also saying 7th edition 40k. I'm afraid they are squandering their good name.
Knight Rumors - Jan 2014
As you may have seen on other sites Febraury is all about the Dwarfs. So for you fans of the short and bearded get pumped. March will see the release of Imperial Knights. This year is shaping up to be a good one. PENDING
40k Release - Dec 2013
The big 40k rumor is: This summer GW will release 7th edition 40k , and 9th edition Fantasy has been shelved, for now. PENDING They way it was explained to us is that 7th Edition will be made to include the new Escalation and Stronghold rules. I would also not be surprised to see the Dataslates added to the main rule book. PENDING
Release Schedule - Oct 2013
First 5 months of releases for 2014
Jan – ‘Nids DUPLICATE Feb – can’t recall at the moment (Might be Hobbit related)
Mar – Dwarfs PENDING Apr – Imperial Guard PENDING May – Wood Elves PENDING
Release Schedule - Sep 2013
People, Tyranids are not pushed back, they have always been slated for January.
Oct: Dark Elves TRUE Nov: Holiday Releases(boxed army type stuff) PARTIALLY TRUE Dec: Hobbit TRUE Jan: Tyranids TRUE Feb: Dwarfs PENDING March: IGPENDING
Dark Elf Rumors - Sep 2013
- Warlocks appear to have one hand weapon TRUE - The new chariot crew is armed with spears and what looks to be a large crossbow or bolt thrower on the chariot. TRUE - The new Warriors look quite different to me. But then again I am a big geek that notices stuff like that. They have cloaks that come down their back and all the helmets don't cover the eyes any more. TRUE - The warlocks are bare chested, and the weapons look mundane...aka not glowing. They look like large jagged daggers. They are held in reverse grips which looks pretty slick. The warlock champions eyes are glowing which IMO hints at some magical abilities. md as far as the warriors go I think a big difference will be the size of them. Look at the size difference between Isle of Blood Lothern Sea Guard and the normal High Elves spearman. TRUE - (Hydra) It looks bigger and beefier. Like we said Dark Elves are setting the bar for the best range of models in WHFB. TRUE - The cloaks hang down from underneath the shoulder armor and cover the back of the chain mail. It definitely is new for them but it looks really cool. The Druchii warriors also have shoulder armor. It makes them look simply awesome. The skull embossed on their shields looks great too. Yes the Hydra does have 2 handlers. TRUE - The Warriors, Black Guard, and Dark Riders all have cloaks. None of them appear to have face coverings. The Executioners appear to have skull faced helms. The theme to me appears to be a more sinister version of their High Elf bretheren. The plate armor has very spiked and jagged edges. The style will still fit well with the Shades and Reaper but next to these new models they will look very dated. TRUE -The Kraken has 5 heads/fanged maws. The have spines and scales with smooth neck and belly flesh. Scales are painted a Dark Grey with the softer flesh painted blue. Looks awesome. TRUE -The pictures we have of the Witch Elves has them with two hand weapons. TRUE -Black Guard look very stalwart with large halberds and high helms with 3 spikes on each side with a flowing plume on top. Their armor is black trimmed in gold and they have dark purple cloaks. The unit champion is holding a sword by the hilt with the blade planted in the ground. Musician is a drummer. TRUE -The executioners have what look like skull helms, and their armor is a brighter silver than the Black Guard. Their tunics are red in color and the Draiches are all held on the left hand side of their bodies (their left our right). They look very cool ranked up. TRUE - The Dark Riders are very cool looking. Sleek looking horses with only a bit of armor. All of the Riders are hunched over in the saddle to give the illusion of speeding fast cav. The helmets appear to be open faced and they are armed with spears in the picture I have, once again that doesn't mean they wont get crossbows (in the pictures we have they are in the back ground behind the Warlocks). TRUE - The Kraken doesn't have tentacles, it has four legs with webbed appendages ending in claws and it also has a tail. TRUE - The Cauldron of Blood/Blood Throne look very cool. If you are a fan of the newer larger models GW has been putting out for WHFB you will really dig it. It is a bit toned down compared to the Empire Celestial Hurricanum/Luminark of Hysh and has blades and hooks on it to make it very sinister and Dark Elf. TRUE - Execs use swords (phew!). TRUE - Black Guards look "amazing", with bulkier shoulders and tall helmets with plumes, so I guess pretty much like they look now (in that respect at least). TRUE - The Cauldron has six wheels and two staircases leading up to the platform with the big statue of Khaine. It is not pulled by anything, so maybe (my assumption it will be used like the Screaming Bell? Three Witch Elves on it, lots of spikes and blades. TRUE - The Witch Elves have loincloths and bras (obviously) and look "vicious". TRUE - On the Throne, there is something that looks like half-Witch Elf, half Medusa, with snakes as hair. TRUE - The new Hydra is beefier than the current one. DUPLICATE - And the WEs on the Throne use spears. TRUE - Warlocks are bare-chested, with long flowing hair, painted white. They seem to have black eyes (or no eyes), except for the champion, whose eyes are glowing. Dark Riders are cloaked (of course), and hunched over in the saddle, in order to present a low profile. TRUE
Dark Elves - Sep 2013
NEW RUMORS for Warhammer Fantasy! My "source" has sent me pictures of the new Dark Elf release. The Dark Elves will be out in October with a slew of new models:
1) NEW Plastic Dark Elf Warrior Box(Makes Spearmen, swordsmen, & crossbowmen) TRUE 2) NEW PLastic Dark Riders/Warlocks TRUE 3) NEW Plastic Blackguard/Executioners TRUE 4) NEW Plastic Coldone Chariot/Scroungerunner(Pulled by horses) TRUE 5) NEW Plastic Cauldron of Blood/Blood Throne(This model is AMAZING) TRUE 6) NEW Plastic Hydra/Kraken TRUE 7) NEW Plastic Witch Elf box TRUE
Space Marines - August 2013
"Centurions: The guys are a heavy support choice. They're a marine cased in heavy armor with powerfist with lascannons under slung on one pic and heavy bolters on the other. Think of a heavier terminator armor that a marine straps into. I think this is where Chaos Oblits came from. They look to be on 40mm and I'm really starting to dig these models. TRUE
Plastic Chaplain: Like other plastic HQ's that have come out. He is armed with a Crozius and bolt pistol. He has ornate armor and he is in a dynamic pose. TRUE
Plastic Librarian: Same as above regarding previous HQ releases. He is helmetless and he's armed with a staff. He also has a wicked cherub flying off his pack pack. I really like this model. TRUE
The Hunter: I believe this will be anti-air rhino. Its a cross between Vindicator Heavy Armor and a whirlwind style weapon mounted on the back. It comes with two cannons that have three barrels. TRUE
Vanguard Plastic: I saw two separate pics one armed with TH/SS and one with a pair of Lighting claws, finally. Same Marine bodies just with some new iconography to freshen up the models. TRUE
From what I have seen so far the Marine release is going to be huge for GW. Sorry about no pics but I promised."
Either is highly likely, although for WHFB Empire is only about halfway though the book creep, if I recall correctly. Hoping it's 40k Knights, though. I'm a sucker for large models, and in a world of Wraithknights and Riptides, Guard could use something to help out. As long as GW doesn't do something silly and give them a str. D weapon.
Either one would be welcome in my book...but seeing as how the new Warhammer starter box is rumored to have new mounted Empire models this summer...and that IG is rumored to be the next 40K army release...I'd be willing to wager it is the 'small titans' to which they are referring.
Drun Knok: We're talking about 40K superheavy walkers here, not the Warhammer horse-knights? 40K Radio: That is correct.
40k Radio: We believe it will be release through the new WD format. The week of the Release, you will get the rules in the WD. 40k radio: Rules will go back into WD and the Knights rules will most likley go in there as well.
So they are banking on WD having rules again too.
Bad bet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm going to go ahead and bet right now that 40kradio's success as a monger was a one-time thing. They got a couple rumors for DE/SM and it propelled them to stardom. Now they are having to come up with more rumors and are dry so we get this.
With this and the new CSM rumours, I could actually start to get excited about 40K again (not about either release specifically, but about the mechanism of diverse releases with rules divorced from book updates)
Sadly, in most cases anything sounding this promising is either wrong, or GW find some way of pissing in my coffee.
pretre wrote: So they are banking on WD having rules again too.
Bad bet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm going to go ahead and bet right now that 40kradio's success as a monger was a one-time thing. They got a couple rumors for DE/SM and it propelled them to stardom. Now they are having to come up with more rumors and are dry so we get this.
I hope I'm wrong.
It such a weird rumour though. In terms of the Knight part, rather than the rules. No mention of the armies that can take it. Imperial armies I presume? Perhaps Chaos?
pretre wrote: So they are banking on WD having rules again too.
Bad bet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm going to go ahead and bet right now that 40kradio's success as a monger was a one-time thing. They got a couple rumors for DE/SM and it propelled them to stardom. Now they are having to come up with more rumors and are dry so we get this.
I hope I'm wrong.
It such a weird rumour though. In terms of the Knight part, rather than the rules. No mention of the armies that can take it. Imperial armies I presume? Perhaps Chaos?
On the actual radio show they said it was for ALL imperial armies.
They also said it was from the exact same source that gave them all the space marine stuff before.
Always a chance they'll do rules in the box a la the new fortifications. Seems a bit far-fetched though, people have been asking for knights for a while.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I don't put much credence in rules being available only in such a limited format as the weekly White Dwarf. They never done that before... oh wait...
I agree broadly, but with digital versions, and a declared intent to keep back issues available, if in limited quantities, it could be worse.
It could, of course, be much better too, I mean, who do you have to punch at GWHQ to get rules inserts in the boxes for non-terrain units? But it could be worse.
So paladins, errants, castellans, crusaders will be back from epic on 30mm scale. This will be huge. Soon we could play actual W40k game with W40k 6th edition rules... with a near complete rule support for 6mm epic miniatures range ! Add-in some house rules to handle the scale discrepancies, and here it is !
Seriously, I wonder what kind of profile and cost we should expect for these giants. GW screwed the vast majority of vehicles with 6th edition rules. On the other hand, Wraithknight and riptide don't make any sense with a monstrous creature profile. I mean, mechanical huge artifacts with a pilot... but not using walker rules, unaffected by vehicle damage table which would make perfect sense on them, while vulnerable to poison and so on ? WTF ?!? Guess what ? GW design team soon realised they screwed vehicles rules, that's why any giant bipedal "robot" is to be expected with the more powerful MC profile. I hope to be wrong, but I fear for some more big absolute madness added to the game. Warhammer 40k derails out of scale.
This would sound more plausible as part of the larger IG release. As just a new huge walker available to all Imperials, and at a time when we'd expect some IG specific rumors to start popping up, this sounds just out of place.
I'm going to go ahead and bet right now that 40kradio's success as a monger was a one-time thing. They got a couple rumors for DE/SM and it propelled them to stardom. Now they are having to come up with more rumors and are dry so we get this.
I'm going to go ahead and bet right now that 40kradio's success as a monger was a one-time thing. They got a couple rumors for DE/SM and it propelled them to stardom. Now they are having to come up with more rumors and are dry so we get this.
I hope I'm wrong.
What are you betting?
I was just betting. Are you looking to take me up on a bet? I'd go so far as $1.00 paypal.
I'm going to go ahead and bet right now that 40kradio's success as a monger was a one-time thing. They got a couple rumors for DE/SM and it propelled them to stardom. Now they are having to come up with more rumors and are dry so we get this.
I hope I'm wrong.
What are you betting?
I was just betting. Are you looking to take me up on a bet? I'd go so far as $1.00 paypal.
Simply wondering about the strength of your conviction. $1 isn't a lot
Anyhow.. if 40K Radio would simply want to churn the rumour waters, why come up with improbable stuff like Knights and 7th Edition? The could simply do the "usual" stuff and sort the "armies-not-updated-in-the-last-12-months" in various random orders each month as most rumour-mongers do. Oh, and predict the end of Finecast. That one will be true ... someday ... 2019?
Zweischneid wrote: Simply wondering about the strength of your conviction. $1 isn't a lot
Anyhow.. if 40K Radio would simply want to churn the rumour waters, why come up with improbable stuff like Knights and 7th Edition? The could simply do the "usual" stuff and sort the "armies-not-updated-in-the-last-12-months" in various random orders each month as most rumour-mongers do. Oh, and predict the end of Finecast. That one will be true ... someday ... 2019?
It's an internet bet. You're lucky you're getting a dollar.
Internet personalities bet big on rumors because the short term gains exceed the long term losses. They can always claim 'that was playtest' or 'it was delayed' and still get all the sweet sweet likes and page hits.
Also, the 'put armies in order' thing usually doesn't work out for mongers. Just ask Stickmonkey's record. He's been waffling between playing it safe and not and that hasn't helped him much.
Zweischneid wrote: Simply wondering about the strength of your conviction. $1 isn't a lot
Anyhow.. if 40K Radio would simply want to churn the rumour waters, why come up with improbable stuff like Knights and 7th Edition? The could simply do the "usual" stuff and sort the "armies-not-updated-in-the-last-12-months" in various random orders each month as most rumour-mongers do. Oh, and predict the end of Finecast. That one will be true ... someday ... 2019?
It's an internet bet. You're lucky you're getting a dollar.
Internet personalities bet big on rumors because the short term gains exceed the long term losses. They can always claim 'that was playtest' or 'it was delayed' and still get all the sweet sweet likes and page hits.
Also, the 'put armies in order' thing usually doesn't work out for mongers. Just ask Stickmonkey's record. He's been waffling between playing it safe and not and that hasn't helped him much.
True.
But 40K Radio's track-record actually is flawless to the degree that it indicates a genuine source, with the minor exceptions of a month to and fro with Dwarfs, which - potentially - could be down to GW playing with shedules.
Either way, it's more about the odd observation that "readers" of rumours always seem so eager to accept the rumours that simply make prediction on past patters (even though 2013 should've proven to anyone, that GW's "patterns" are up in the air), while always being more sceptical of rumours that break the "comfortable norm" (e.g. 7th Edition), less about the monger's themselves, I guess.
To an extend, it often seems that re-dressing "community-wish-listing" as "rumours" is the more profitable way to go about it than, well, actual rumours.
Zweischneid wrote: But 40K Radio's track-record actually is flawless to the degree that it indicates a genuine source, with the minor exceptions of a month to and fro with Dwarfs, which - potentially - could be down to GW playing with shedules.
Either way, it's more about the odd observation that "readers" of rumours always seem so eager to accept the rumours that simply make prediction on past patters (even though 2013 should've proven to anyone, that GW's "patterns" are up in the air), while always being more sceptical of rumours that break the "comfortable norm" (e.g. 7th Edition), less about the monger's themselves, I guess.
My actual theory for 40kradio is that their source got early WD pics. I believe everything they predicted could have come from a WD. That strongly suggests that they would not be able to predict that far out. Which is why I am so skeptical of these big picture, out there rumors from them.
Either way, we'll know in a month or two how accurate they continue to be and whether they were just a flash in the pan. There are plenty of mongers who started out well and went downhill over time (Again, Stickmonkey is a great example of this).
Imperial Knights would make sense. It's a model people want and it might be something that could fit a Lord of War slot for Space Marine and Imperial Guard for Escalation games.
d-usa wrote: Imperial Knights would make sense. It's a model people want and it might be something that could fit a Lord of War slot for Space Marine and Imperial Guard for Escalation games.
This could finally stifle the Taudar worshipers who have began to disgrace the name of Imperial armies. We'll show them. We'll show them all...
tomjoad wrote: This would sound more plausible as part of the larger IG release.
They are nothing to do with the Imperial guard, they are operated exclusively by the Adeptus Mechanicus. Of course its not as if GW has proven loathe to 'improve' its fluff before now....
Plus Knights would be completely out of place on a 40K table top. Its not as if that has stopped GW before now either.
I suspect that this is about Emprie knights, the kit is very old now and there was talk of them getting updated a while ago.
tomjoad wrote: This would sound more plausible as part of the larger IG release.
They are nothing to do with the Imperial guard, they are operated exclusively by the Adeptus Mechanicus. Of course its not as if GW has proven loathe to 'improve' its fluff before now....
They are actually operated by Noble "Knight" Houses, more akin to the Navis Nobilite. There was a (short) HH-Knights story by Graham McNeil in the HH-Games Day Anthology from Black Library "The Imperial Truth".
pretre wrote: 40k radio specifically said it was 40k Knights.
Great, another part of 40k's fluff is about to be ruined by inexpert and uncaring hands in the name of cash. GW really seems to go out of its way to ensure that I give them no money.
pretre wrote: 40k radio specifically said it was 40k Knights.
Great, another part of 40k's fluff is about to be ruined by inexpert and uncaring hands in the name of cash. GW really seems to go out of its way to ensure that I give them no money.
pretre wrote: 40k radio specifically said it was 40k Knights.
Great, another part of 40k's fluff is about to be ruined by inexpert and uncaring hands in the name of cash. GW really seems to go out of its way to ensure that I give them no money.
I think it may be a little early to drag this bad boy out:
Zweischneid wrote: But 40K Radio's track-record actually is flawless to the degree that it indicates a genuine source, with the minor exceptions of a month to and fro with Dwarfs, which - potentially - could be down to GW playing with shedules.
Agreed. If the Imperial Knights turned out to be an April release, it wouldn't be reasonable to hold that against them.
Zweischneid wrote: But 40K Radio's track-record actually is flawless to the degree that it indicates a genuine source, with the minor exceptions of a month to and fro with Dwarfs, which - potentially - could be down to GW playing with shedules.
Agreed. If the Imperial Knights turned out to be an April release, it wouldn't be reasonable to hold that against them.
Well, actually it would. When tracking rumors we go off of pure facts. If we give wiggle room then no one is ever wrong.
What better place to release rules for a new type of kit than in the weekly WD, that is only for sale for one week in GW stores, FLGSs and GW webshop with no chance for getting back issues after that. Well done!
Kroothawk wrote: What better place to release rules for a new type of kit than in the weekly WD, that is only for sale for one week in GW stores, FLGSs and GW webshop with no chance for getting back issues after that. Well done!
Hence the reason it is unlikely and kind of a silly rumor. Either way, recent history says digital is much more likely, or even in box.
Kroothawk wrote: What better place to release rules for a new type of kit than in the weekly WD, that is only for sale for one week in GW stores, FLGSs and GW webshop with no chance for getting back issues after that. Well done!
If only they hadn't done fairly close to that in the past.
Well with all the moaning about dataslates and other digital stuff if they do go back to WD (new) rules that then vanish into the mists of 'out of print' we only have outselves to blame
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Well with all the moaning about dataslates and other digital stuff if they do go back to WD (new) rules that then vanish into the mists of 'out of print' we only have outselves to blame
(semi serious here)
Well, it is kinda true...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: If they had any sense, they'd put the rules in the box.
Yeah, the Fortification rules books were awesome. I thought it was a really nice touch.
pretre wrote: 40k radio specifically said it was 40k Knights.
Great, another part of 40k's fluff is about to be ruined by inexpert and uncaring hands in the name of cash. GW really seems to go out of its way to ensure that I give them no money.
There's nothing new about these guys is there? I thought they featured in Epic.
Who cares what they do to the fluff, so long as they just release the damn model.
Your game, you choose.
The defense of an Agri/Maiden World is as likely to gain support from any arm of the Adeptus. Those space dinosaurs won't protect themselves and I hear Marneus Calgar and Creed would go Apegak if there was no meat for their local drive-in Primarch Burger. So it's all hands to the pumps.
And while I'm talking crap I'll also proffer the unlikely scenario of an Eldar Knight....nah.
I mean, look at what's meant to be in that Dwarf release - a plastic box of stuff people already have rules for, and some new character with the full rules. I could see them releasing certain Army Book/Codex items early and putting the rules into WD (and then selling them as DLC), and then when the army book comes along those rules get folded into the new book.
So Knights could be the big oval base release for the upcoming Guard re-do, just published early (with rules in WD + DLC on website), and then for anyone who doesn't get the WD and won't buy GW's Day-1 DLC, it eventually comes out in the new Codex.
Not unrealistic at all in my mind, just a reverse of what happened with the Nightspinner (or whatever that Eldar tank is called).
I mean, look at what's meant to be in that Dwarf release - a plastic box of stuff people already have rules for, and some new character with the full rules. I could see them releasing certain Army Book/Codex items early and putting the rules into WD (and then selling them as DLC), and then when the army book comes along those rules get folded into the new book.
So Knights could be the big oval base release for the upcoming Guard re-do, just published early (with rules in WD + DLC on website), and then for anyone who doesn't get the WD and won't buy GW's Day-1 DLC, it eventually comes out in the new Codex.
Not unrealistic at all in my mind, just a reverse of what happened with the Nightspinner (or whatever that Eldar tank is called).
They have done this before with WHFB releases somewhat recently (WoC release). This was done with the Skullcrushers and Hellstriders.
Palindrome wrote: Plus Knights would be completely out of place on a 40K table top.
Really? You still think that this late in the game?
It's the popularity of those kits that leads me to believe that there is some truth to this rumour, I'm sure GW would love to get an Imperial variant of a giant stompy robot out that doesn't rely on Forgeworld.
As Far as rules go They had a CCW and a cannon of some form depending on the rank of the pilot I think the usual was a battle cannon.
I can see them as walking Russ's without the side guns and a Dread CCW or eq.
I much prefer the post-Titan legions updated Errant/Crusader/Lancer/Paladins to the original versions.
Assuming this rumour is true, and I hope it is, if there's any justice in the world the GW kit will allow for 2-3 different types of Knight (a Paladin and then hopefully something like an Errant or Crusader). I got my 15mm Crusader Leviathans/Mortis' for this specific reason, and to have official rules would be great.
I wonder if GW will learn from it's mistakes or if it will give them two D weapons and tell people to take them in units of 1-3 in regular 40k games (without opponent's permission) for only 150 points each.
I'm not on NogginJournal, someone do us a favour and ask 40K Radio if there's going to be another round of fluff-buggery with these? And in case they try their "hurr durr you ask rong kweshtuns lulz" shtick again this time round, to be specific: are there still Knight households/orders? Are they still associated with the Mechanicus? If they are changing the fluff, are we talking Black Templars level retcons, or Iron Hands post-supplement level retcons?
If GW releases a plastic knight titan, I can already see FW going crazy releasing conversion kits for them to sell to HH gamers. The HH rule books mention knights mutiple times in the fluff parts.
I assumed they were going to be a resin kit this whole time... But if GW was planning a plastic kit, then i guess that explains why FW hasn't done them yet. From what's hinted at I expect them to be super heavy walkers with Flare Shields as described or simular to the rules found in the 1st HH book.
I wrote a while back in the 'What do you expect for the new IG codex' that if an Imperial Knight wasn't included it would be financially a mistake of gigantic proportions and yet another opportunity squandered.
Looks like even GW can't be that stupid. If the model is good I might even buy a few, and a couple thousand points of army to go with them.
I think it may be a little early to drag this bad boy out:
Jumping to conclusions or simple experience with GW's past 'improvements' to the fluff?
40K really doesn't need yet another superheavy vehicle, it doesn't even need 1. I know GW doesn't care but its simply not good for the game. If they were to re-release Epic on the other hand......
Who says the Knight is going to be a super-heavy vehicle? For all we know it could be another monstrous creature, which I'd love, they are a wee bit more durable than vehicles these days.
BrookM wrote: Who says the Knight is going to be a super-heavy vehicle?
Because they are? ...
The Eldar one isn't.
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Medium of Death wrote: It such a weird rumour though. In terms of the Knight part, rather than the rules. No mention of the armies that can take it. Imperial armies I presume? Perhaps Chaos?
It's not that weird, given the impending Guard release, and the current push for bigger and bigger models.
I would go so far as to say it would be a little surprising if this particular rumour isn't true.
Kroothawk wrote: What better place to release rules for a new type of kit than in the weekly WD, that is only for sale for one week in GW stores, FLGSs and GW webshop with no chance for getting back issues after that. Well done!
Hence the reason it is unlikely and kind of a silly rumor. Either way, recent history says digital is much more likely, or even in box.
How long were Storm Raven, Ork plane and Battle Sister rules completely unavailable to anyone who didn't happen to score the relevant under-supplied White Dwarf?
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OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Well with all the moaning about dataslates and other digital stuff if they do go back to WD (new) rules that then vanish into the mists of 'out of print' we only have outselves to blame
Because 'dataslate' or 'release in White Dwarf' are the only two possible ways to release new rules...
How long were Storm Raven, Ork plane and Battle Sister rules completely unavailable to anyone who didn't happen to score the relevant under-supplied White Dwarf?
Just caught that one - Stormravens were in the 5th ed bangle book, they were released alongside the codex. Nobody else could take them until the 6th ed Space Marine book. It wasn't in White Dwarf. Your example does hold up though, for dakkajets, the battle sister codex, stormtalons (maybe you just meant stormtalons), etc
On the under-supply thing - is WD that hard to get hold of? In the UK it's even in the supermarkets and stuff. And nobody buys it, so they always have five or six left over at the end of the month. Perhaps things are different down under (everything's different down under). They've said as part of the WD change announcements that limited back issues will be available, plus it's going to be digital, so generally I think that side of things will improve a bit. They should definitely return to the days of PDFing content like this and making it free on gw.com, but that's like asking for the moon as far as GW brass are concerned
Bull0 wrote: Just caught that one - Stormravens were in the 5th ed bangle book, they were released alongside the codex. Nobody else could take them until the 6th ed Space Marine book. It wasn't in White Dwarf. Your example does hold up though, for dakkajets, the battle sister codex, stormtalons (maybe you just meant stormtalons), etc
Yeah, I meant the talon. Long week...
On the under-supply thing - is WD that hard to get hold of?
Around the time the flyer rules and the sisters codex came out, people were complaining about stores only receiving limited copies, or not receiving their orders at all. There were also those who don't buy White Dwarf regularly who didn't even know the rules were in there until afterwards, by which point it was too late.
So, as I mentioned on the first page they did give a bit more detail on the actual podcast, seems I'm the only one who listened to it.
They said it would be for all imperial forces to take, and the model itself was about the size of a wraithknight but more bulky.
When they give out these rumours its far too detailed for wishlisting, their source obviously works for GW at some point in the supply chain, they also didnt say it would be ONLY in the weekly WD we would get rules, just that the rules would be in there.
I think this illustrates just how little intersest I now have with 40k, there was a time I new rules for just about every unit in the game, often the stat lines as well.
Lockark wrote: If GW releases a plastic knight titan, I can already see FW going crazy releasing conversion kits for them to sell to HH gamers. The HH rule books mention knights mutiple times in the fluff parts.
A full plastic kit that Imperial players have to have....
but no weapon included so you have to get a FW titan weapon.
Your group/store/meta bans FW, then sorry no powerful new toy to play with
We already had that. It's called the "Vendetta".
Seriously. The official Vendetta kit is "Buy a Valkyrie, then order the Vendetta conversion kit from Forge World". The same thing currently exists for the Hydra Flak Tank.
With that said if we genuinely are going to see an Imperial Knight kit, you would not have the same situation happening again.
plastictrees wrote: If the rules aren't buried in a never to be reprinted White Dwarf then I hope Dreamforged is bracing for a lot of Crusader sales.
given that I believe the 28mm Crusader is pretty close to the size of a knight (right?) I suppose it would be rather foolish to expect GW to price it's knight kit similar to the crusader pricing? It better be a pretty amazing kit if they charge a pretty penny for it as I would need to really justify spending more then a crusader
Lockark wrote: If GW releases a plastic knight titan, I can already see FW going crazy releasing conversion kits for them to sell to HH gamers. The HH rule books mention knights mutiple times in the fluff parts.
plastictrees wrote: If the rules aren't buried in a never to be reprinted White Dwarf then I hope Dreamforged is bracing for a lot of Crusader sales.
given that I believe the 28mm Crusader is pretty close to the size of a knight (right?) I suppose it would be rather foolish to expect GW to price it's knight kit similar to the crusader pricing? It better be a pretty amazing kit if they charge a pretty penny for it as I would need to really justify spending more then a crusader
Close to the size yes... but definitely on the large size though. I hope they go through with it though. Would love to have the chance to use mine more with rules that will be more widely excepted.
given that I believe the 28mm Crusader is pretty close to the size of a knight (right?) I suppose it would be rather foolish to expect GW to price it's knight kit similar to the crusader pricing? It better be a pretty amazing kit if they charge a pretty penny for it as I would need to really justify spending more then a crusader
...
The Dreamforge Leviathan is slightly taller than a wraithknight, but considerably wider, longer, and less "empty space". I'd say it's almost halfway between a wraithknight and an Ork Stompa, perhaps a little closer to the stompa.
I'd honestly be disappointed if it was larger than a Riptide.
I don't think that it could be as large as a Leviathan, simply because of the limitations of the large oval base. The Wraithknight all ready fills that base. A Knight the size of the Leviathan would require a substancially larger base, as is evident with the leviathan.
MajorTom11 wrote: Honestly are we 100% sure Imperial Knights means Knight Titans and not WFB Imperial Knights???
They generally refer to the Empire Knights as "Knightly Orders" or "Reiksguard Knights" so it's a pretty good guess that it means the Imperial Knights.
In a perfect world it would be extremely close in overall scale to the dreamforge model, so I can mix and match parts and add and sexy fw goodies to my dreamforge stuff, but I dont think GW likes me enough to do all that
lol, I sure hope it is accurate, they have been sitting on these guys for nigh-on 20 years, so it almost feels too 'lucky' to finally get them... I thought of WFB Knights as the time of legends books about Sigmar make frequent reference to various units as Imperial Knights, and I remember rumors of Empire right after Dwarves...
Ah well, this is the first bit of GW news in over a year to actually have me interested, so, let's hope the designs are top notch! I am hoping for something that respects the old school a little bit in silhouette if not specific detail.
MajorTom11 wrote: lol, I sure hope it is accurate, they have been sitting on these guys for nigh-on 20 years, so it almost feels too 'lucky' to finally get them... I thought of WFB Knights as the time of legends books about Sigmar make frequent reference to various units as Imperial Knights, and I remember rumors of Empire right after Dwarves...
I think the books/lore might refer to them as "Imperial Knights" but the army book goes out of its way to call the basic knights "Knightly Orders"(or "Inner Circle Knights") and the more elite knights get called "Reiksguard Knights".
I will be flustered if Empire get redone right as I'm actually organizing my stuff into a playable army. I would be content if they make Demigryphs an option for Grand Masters, Generals, or Captains though. Bizarre that their brand new mount option is unusable by characters.
BrookM wrote: I'm beginning to fear that my Leviathan might be too big a model to represent a Knight if the rumour regarding it being Dreadknight sized is true.
BrookM wrote: I'm beginning to fear that my Leviathan might be too big a model to represent a Knight if the rumour regarding it being Dreadknight sized is true.
Just have to get another 15mm scaled one
They said wraithknight not dreadknight sized. You should be fine with the leviathan.
MajorTom11 wrote: Honestly are we 100% sure Imperial Knights means Knight Titans and not WFB Imperial Knights???
Firstly, that has been confirmed by 40KRadio.
Secondly, what's a Knight Titan?
Sorry, didn't know I had to take unconfirmed rumors as 'confirmed/fact' if they come from 40kRadio! Although, in all fairness, they have a pretty good track record of late, good for Kyle and Rick!
I believe the Knights were referred to as Knight Titans in the old 2nd ed days? They were epic only and released along with Adeptus Titanicus if I am recalling, so they were 'knight class titans' at the time... Could be wrong though I am relatively confident that was the case.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just took a look, they were referred to as 1-man titans at a certain point.
MajorTom11 wrote: Sorry, didn't know I had to take unconfirmed rumors as 'confirmed/fact' if they come from 40kRadio! Although, in all fairness, they have a pretty good track record of late, good for Kyle and Rick!
He means that 40k radio confirmed that they meant 40k knights when they said Imperial Knights, not that this is a fact yet.
Ah, misunderstood then sorry about that, regardless, confirmed by 40k in the sense I thought he meant holds a bit of weight all the same given their recent track-record!
I can kind of believe this. Having read through several old White Dwarfs I've always dug Imperial Knights, and they really seem to be an aspect of the Imperium that has been largely ignored since the days of Adeptus Titanicus/ Space Marine/ Epic, which is why I found it amusing to see mention of them in the recent Apocalypse book!
MajorTom11 wrote: Sorry, didn't know I had to take unconfirmed rumors as 'confirmed/fact' if they come from 40kRadio! Although, in all fairness, they have a pretty good track record of late, good for Kyle and Rick!
He means that 40k radio confirmed that they meant 40k knights when they said Imperial Knights, not that this is a fact yet.
This.
The first post ITT was me asking the same thing, the question was asked by someone else on their FB page and the response was to confirm it was intended as a 40K rumour.
As for the other thing, Knights have always been just that, 'Titan' is superfluous, inaccurate and unnecessary. While describing them as Titan-like is obviously pretty logical, it isn't what they are.
Done channelling other user's consciousnesses now!
Lion 275 on Warseer wrote: IG will be in April. March will focus soley on the Imperial Knights. Followed by Wood Elves in May...
It sounds like Imperial Knights will be a Dataslate or a mini codex. I bet you see it in the WD then have it come out in Dataslate/mini dex. From what we were told it will not be in the IG codex and will be able to ally with various armies.
IG is getting a new name with their new codex a la SoB. According to 40K Radio's source, they'll be renamed to the Astra Militarium.
Yup a brand new name. The book is called Astra Militarium. I am just going by what our source has told us. Could be a legal issue, could be they are incorporating more things into the Codex. Time will tell.
And I want to re-iterate Knight ARE NOT part of Astra Militarium (IG).
Yeaaah. Gonna go ahead and call the AM thing now. Not happening.
Imperial Guard is very weak, from a protection point of view, it exists in fact, and is a thing in other fictional universes I'm sure.
I can see the logic, but then, why wasn't Codex SM Codex:Adeptus Astartes, as we are all painfully aware of how weak Space Marines is from a legal standpoint.
I believe the Knights were referred to as Knight Titans in the old 2nd ed days? They were epic only and released along with Adeptus Titanicus if I am recalling, so they were 'knight class titans' at the time... Could be wrong though I am relatively confident that was the case.
They were referred to as "Knight suits" - the phrase "Knight Titan" has never ever been used officially:
MajorTom11 wrote: lol, I sure hope it is accurate, they have been sitting on these guys for nigh-on 20 years, so it almost feels too 'lucky' to finally get them... I thought of WFB Knights as the time of legends books about Sigmar make frequent reference to various units as Imperial Knights, and I remember rumors of Empire right after Dwarves...
Don't worry, as a fantsey player who plays Empire and read thows books too, i thought at 1st were were talking about empire knights.
I'm no specialist of legal things, but trademark status of space marines seems relatively safe, at least in wargaming / miniatures realm. While Imperial Guard is completely a thing rooted in public domain. For instance, look at historic ranges : Imperial Guard mostly refers to the Napoleonic Guard. There is no way to protect such a name as a trademark in wargaming / miniatures industry.
What surprises me is absence of use of well recognised "adeptus" word in this new name for IG. Adeptus Militarium would have sounded great !
Ravajaxe wrote: I'm no specialist of legal things, but trademark status of space marines seems relatively safe, at least in wargaming / miniatures realm. While Imperial Guard is completely a thing rooted in public domain. For instance, look at historic ranges : Imperial Guard mostly refers to the Napoleonic Guard. There is no way to protect such a name as a trademark in wargaming / miniatures industry.
What surprises me is absence of use of well recognised "adeptus" word in this new name for IG. Adeptus Militarium would have sounded great !
Within miniatures, yes, Space Marine is probably a more protectable term, but then remember GW also produce books, and may have designs on moving into other sectors (or, a company looking to acquire GW may have those designs)
Astartes has none of the issues and is well enough grounded in the fluff that it probably wouldn't generate too much uproar in the community (like they'd care)
Ah, it's all moot as its nonsense anyway, but its fun to speculate. ( For the record, I think Militarium is a bonk name and reminds me of some sort of specialist animal enclosure)
Ravajaxe wrote: I'm no specialist of legal things, but trademark status of space marines seems relatively safe, at least in wargaming / miniatures realm. While Imperial Guard is completely a thing rooted in public domain. For instance, look at historic ranges : Imperial Guard mostly refers to the Napoleonic Guard. There is no way to protect such a name as a trademark in wargaming / miniatures industry.
What surprises me is absence of use of well recognised "adeptus" word in this new name for IG. Adeptus Militarium would have sounded great !
I don't know TSR managed to Trademark Nazis in the Indinana Jones RPG back in the early 80's
azreal13 wrote: I can see the logic, but then, why wasn't Codex SM Codex:Adeptus Astartes, as we are all painfully aware of how weak Space Marines is from a legal standpoint.
And why wasn't the Sisters of Battle renamed 'Adepta Sororitas' with their latest digital Codex(ish)?
MajorTom11 wrote: Sorry, didn't know I had to take unconfirmed rumors as 'confirmed/fact' if they come from 40kRadio! Although, in all fairness, they have a pretty good track record of late, good for Kyle and Rick!
He means that 40k radio confirmed that they meant 40k knights when they said Imperial Knights, not that this is a fact yet.
This.
The first post ITT was me asking the same thing, the question was asked by someone else on their FB page and the response was to confirm it was intended as a 40K rumour.
As for the other thing, Knights have always been just that, 'Titan' is superfluous, inaccurate and unnecessary. While describing them as Titan-like is obviously pretty logical, it isn't what they are.
Done channelling other user's consciousnesses now!
I believe the Knights were referred to as Knight Titans in the old 2nd ed days? They were epic only and released along with Adeptus Titanicus if I am recalling, so they were 'knight class titans' at the time... Could be wrong though I am relatively confident that was the case.
They were referred to as "Knight suits" - the phrase "Knight Titan" has never ever been used officially:
Don't know it would get anyone hot and bothered at the idea that these things were, at some point, considered a subcategory of scout class titans -
Titan Legions (2nd Edition), pp. 27-30, 54
White Dwarf 182 (UK), " 'Eavy Metal: Forces of the Imperium," pg. 38; "Titan Legions: Knight Households," pp. 39-40
White Dwarf 180 (UK), " 'Eavy Metal: Imperial Knights", pg. 26
White Dwarf 178 (UK), "The Titan Legions," by Rick Priestly, pp. 43-50
White Dwarf 126 (UK), "Knights: Eldar & Human War Machines" by Andy Chambers, pp. 28-45
They were officially called titans, there are your references, feel free to look em up.
They may totally end up retconning that right out of existence, or they may have already, I just remember they USED to be called Knight Titans, lol don't shoot the messenger here, you can call them whatever you like it doesn't bother me!
given that I believe the 28mm Crusader is pretty close to the size of a knight (right?)
Not really, unless GW scales up Knights a lot. The Crusader is 8.5" tall. If Armorcast had done a Knight in scale with the Reaver and Warhound, it would have been 6" tall. Certainly Forge World has scaled Titans up from Armorcast sizes and so will probably scale up the Knight as well, but I don't think they will bump the height up by 40% to make it as tall as the Crusader.
As a comparison, the Eldar Wraithknight and the Armorcast Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight are in perfect scale with each other when compared to the Epic models.
With this I'm partly thinking "They're going to sell a lot of Leviathan Crusaders if this is true" but also "Perhaps GW are doing this BECAUSE they want to get in on that action". Whole thing makes a bit more sense with that in mind, for me anyway
Bull0 wrote: With this I'm partly thinking "They're going to sell a lot of Leviathan Crusaders if this is true" but also "Perhaps GW are doing this BECAUSE they want to get in on that action". Whole thing makes a bit more sense with that in mind, for me anyway
Probably?
But believe it or not, GW is got their work cut out for them in terms of catching up to/exceeding the efforts of DFG, WF and K in terms of what is now being achieved in 'traditional hard plastic'!
Agreed. While GW may end up making a cool looking model with the 40K aesthetic (skulls EVERYWHERE), it will be nowhere near as technically good as the Dreamforge product.
Don't know it would get anyone hot and bothered at the idea that these things were, at some point, considered a subcategory of scout class titans -
Titan Legions (2nd Edition), pp. 27-30, 54
White Dwarf 182 (UK), " 'Eavy Metal: Forces of the Imperium," pg. 38; "Titan Legions: Knight Households," pp. 39-40
White Dwarf 180 (UK), " 'Eavy Metal: Imperial Knights", pg. 26
White Dwarf 178 (UK), "The Titan Legions," by Rick Priestly, pp. 43-50
White Dwarf 126 (UK), "Knights: Eldar & Human War Machines" by Andy Chambers, pp. 28-45
They were officially called titans, there are your references, feel free to look em up.
They may totally end up retconning that right out of existence, or they may have already, I just remember they USED to be called Knight Titans, lol don't shoot the messenger here, you can call them whatever you like it doesn't bother me!
There's always one
I have all these (with the exception of WD126), and the link I posted covers at least two of those sources (they reprinted Codex Titanicus stuff in WD). "Knight Titan" is not used in any of them.
Although if it helps, we could ask everyone on Dakka to start using the following phrases to drive home how superfluous the term is:
Dreadknight Titan
Dreadnought Titan
Centurion Titan
Sentinel Titan
Wraithlord Titan
and my favourite...
I think people often say 'Knight Titan' because 'knight' is just a terribly generic word and could refer to number of different things and they want to specify that they mean the giant walking warmachines in 40K.
MajorTom11 wrote: Sorry, didn't know I had to take unconfirmed rumors as 'confirmed/fact' if they come from 40kRadio! Although, in all fairness, they have a pretty good track record of late, good for Kyle and Rick!
He means that 40k radio confirmed that they meant 40k knights when they said Imperial Knights, not that this is a fact yet.
This.
The first post ITT was me asking the same thing, the question was asked by someone else on their FB page and the response was to confirm it was intended as a 40K rumour.
As for the other thing, Knights have always been just that, 'Titan' is superfluous, inaccurate and unnecessary. While describing them as Titan-like is obviously pretty logical, it isn't what they are.
Done channelling other user's consciousnesses now!
I believe the Knights were referred to as Knight Titans in the old 2nd ed days? They were epic only and released along with Adeptus Titanicus if I am recalling, so they were 'knight class titans' at the time... Could be wrong though I am relatively confident that was the case.
They were referred to as "Knight suits" - the phrase "Knight Titan" has never ever been used officially:
Don't know it would get anyone hot and bothered at the idea that these things were, at some point, considered a subcategory of scout class titans -
Titan Legions (2nd Edition), pp. 27-30, 54
White Dwarf 182 (UK), " 'Eavy Metal: Forces of the Imperium," pg. 38; "Titan Legions: Knight Households," pp. 39-40
White Dwarf 180 (UK), " 'Eavy Metal: Imperial Knights", pg. 26
White Dwarf 178 (UK), "The Titan Legions," by Rick Priestly, pp. 43-50
White Dwarf 126 (UK), "Knights: Eldar & Human War Machines" by Andy Chambers, pp. 28-45
They were officially called titans, there are your references, feel free to look em up.
They may totally end up retconning that right out of existence, or they may have already, I just remember they USED to be called Knight Titans, lol don't shoot the messenger here, you can call them whatever you like it doesn't bother me!
You made me look
WD126 just says Knights or Knight suits, not Knight Titans. Lots of mentions of them fighting alongside Titan orders, or the suits being built on Titan forgeworlds, but that's it.
The information here was posted on 40k radio's facebook page, but if one had listened their 71th podcast show, of january 16, some information were already unveiled.
This is what I recollected from their speech.This has been a tricky exercise of listening and noting stuff, 3 or 4 people covering their voice one on another, but quite enjoyable. If you want to check, like if my non-english native ears are OK, please. Some small parts , I failed to understand, don't think that's relevant anyway. It is located after about 30 minutes of them talking bout news and random things of WH40k.
(...)
- It's funny to know about everything all the time.
- Oh, hell I mean we don't know everything, I don't think he 's too happy on the digitals.
- Yeah, I don't talk that much about the digital stuff.
- What ?
- Imperial Knight of... Whuupp !
- Why are you dropping that ? We got to say that one !
- Hey, just sayin' .
- What is it ?
- An Imperial titan will be out at some point in this year.
- Yeah !
- 2014.
- Why are you so sneaky with me ? Tell me right now !
- He's not sneaky with you.
- A plastic Imperial knight ?
- Hmmm...
- Oh nobody is listening, go ahead.
- An Imperial titan, that's from the rumours we've got.
- And (###)
- At some point in this year.
- Cause like, the knight titan has just one dude piloting it. So small when goes to Warhound and everything.
- It's about ... well, in the storyline, I don't know the model, we haven't seen the picture yet, this is just what the source is telling us. The knight titan is about half the size of a warhound. But plastic.
- So the size of the eldar Wraithknight ?
- But bulkier.
- Right.
- Of course.
- So think of it like that... the one that, ah ! What it is ? ... The Leviathan, that one ! That's about the equivalent size.
- That's supposed to be allied to every imperial army.
- (###) building the model (###) ?
- But see. That's where once again... that will get wrapped into 7th edition, or something akin to that , where you are playing with bigger models using escalation, all the same stuff to came out with.
...
Conversation continues bout Tyranid release and Chapterhouse models being removed from the codex and so on.
What do you think of it ?
If they do get into the Mini-titans though... I wonder how they'll make it competitive versus the Dreamforge stuff. If a WraithKnight is 140$, and I can get a Leviathan for 125$ (those are both RRP, we all know we can get discounts), I'm assuming Mark will price his in the ballpark of the KS price... so say 60$... I just don't see many of GW's flying off the shelves*
*All prices are in Canadian dollars, also known as monopoly money, or the loonie.
Hmmm, another Apocalypse unit that is pressed into normal 40k games, just to sell another 2 sprue kit for a new record high price.
Not impressed ... if that rumour turns out true.
Kroothawk wrote: Hmmm, another Apocalypse unit that is pressed into normal 40k games, just to sell another 2 sprue kit for a new record high price.
Not impressed ... if that rumour turns out true.
Titans might not be okay in regular games, but knights are smaller and weaker, so it might be all right. Eldar already have a knight.
I actually hope that they don't make them superheavies but regular walkers with great armour and HP. A bit like walking land raiders.
Kroothawk wrote: Hmmm, another Apocalypse unit that is pressed into normal 40k games, just to sell another 2 sprue kit for a new record high price.
Not impressed ... if that rumour turns out true.
Titans might not be okay in regular games, but knights are smaller and weaker, so it might be all right. Eldar already have a knight.
I actually hope that they don't make them superheavies but regular walkers with great armour and HP. A bit like walking land raiders.
Making them MCs with a toughness, str, wounds, and an armor saves allows more variation in design, and function.
As walkers they can only be adjusted by AV, invl save, str, and hull points.
Crimson wrote: Titans might not be okay in regular games, but knights are smaller and weaker, so it might be all right. Eldar already have a knight.
I actually hope that they don't make them superheavies but regular walkers with great armour and HP. A bit like walking land raiders.
Eldar and Tau got their Apocalypse units (Wraithknight, Riptide) as a no-effort way to make them "competitive". Now those Apocalypse units rule the 40k battlefield. Even more Apocalypse units don't make it better.
BrookM wrote: I hope that the Knight becomes a monstrous creature, just like the Wraithknight and Riptide.
I really don't. I wish they'd stop making things that obviously should be vehicles into MCs. (I can live with Wraithknight being a MC, as wraithbone constructs are really different from normal vehicles, but Dreadknight and Riptide should have been vehicles.)
MC over Walker/Vehicle in 6th makes them playable though - at least, you know, without having seen the possible rules for this potentially made-up release!
Crimson wrote: Titans might not be okay in regular games, but knights are smaller and weaker, so it might be all right. Eldar already have a knight.
I actually hope that they don't make them superheavies but regular walkers with great armour and HP. A bit like walking land raiders.
Eldar and Tau got their Apocalypse units (Wraithknight, Riptide) as a no-effort way to make them "competitive". Now those Apocalypse units rule the 40k battlefield. Even more Apocalypse units don't make it better.
They weren't Apocalypse units. The Riptide and Wraithknight did not exist before the codices got updated to include the units.
Alpharius wrote: MC over Walker/Vehicle in 6th makes them playable though - at least, you know, without having seen the possible rules for this potentially made-up release!
This, that's why I want it to be a MC, it is so much more durable than a vehicle in this edition.
Crimson wrote: Titans might not be okay in regular games, but knights are smaller and weaker, so it might be all right. Eldar already have a knight.
I actually hope that they don't make them superheavies but regular walkers with great armour and HP. A bit like walking land raiders.
Eldar and Tau got their Apocalypse units (Wraithknight, Riptide) as a no-effort way to make them "competitive". Now those Apocalypse units rule the 40k battlefield. Even more Apocalypse units don't make it better.
They weren't Apocalypse units. The Riptide and Wraithknight did not exist before the codices got updated to include the units.
Not to put words in his mouth, but I think Kroot was more referring to the style of unit being more appropriate for Apoc (and, to be fair, anything of the physical size was an Apoc unit beforehand, rules be damned) rather than a literal port of unit from sub-system to mainstream.
BrookM wrote: This, that's why I want it to be a MC, it is so much more durable than a vehicle in this edition.
So? Flyers are good in this edition too, so should knights be flying monstrous creatures then? Vehicles should use vehicle rules and if that means that they have certain weaknesses, then that should be reflected in their point cost.
Besides, I don't think AV14, 4 or 5 HP vehicle, maybe with an invulnerable save, would be that easy to kill.
BrookM wrote: This, that's why I want it to be a MC, it is so much more durable than a vehicle in this edition.
So? Flyers are good in this edition too, so should knights be flying monstrous creatures then? Vehicles should use vehicle rules and if that means that they have certain weaknesses, then that should be reflected in their point cost.
Besides, I don't think AV14, 4 or 5 HP vehicle, maybe with an invulnerable save, would be that easy to kill.
Weird argument there, since I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking about Flying Knights, but, those sound like some nice rules there - you just make that up on the fly?
BrookM wrote: This, that's why I want it to be a MC, it is so much more durable than a vehicle in this edition.
So? Flyers are good in this edition too, so should knights be flying monstrous creatures then? Vehicles should use vehicle rules and if that means that they have certain weaknesses, then that should be reflected in their point cost.
Besides, I don't think AV14, 4 or 5 HP vehicle, maybe with an invulnerable save, would be that easy to kill.
sure it is, a pen with a melta, then a high roll, = 400? dead points
Weird argument there, since I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking about Flying Knights, but, those sound like some nice rules there - you just make that up on the fly?
No he wasn't, but he was talking about making them MCs (whether it made sense or not) because MCs are better. So by same logic they could be flyers (whether it made sense or not), as flyers are better. But this is my pet peeve, things that are obviously vehicles not being vehicles bugs me a lot.
In any case Walkers with 13 or better armour are not that bad, and I think it could work. If you need them to be really durable, you can give them similar damage table re-roll that Venerable Dreads get.
sure it is, a pen with a melta, then a high roll, = 400? dead points
Then it shouldn't cost 400 points. Meltaguns are good at killing vehicles, that's their purpose. Do we just remove all vehicles from the game because a lucky shot with a melta can instakill them?
First0f0ne wrote: No but an Iconic unit such as a knight should not be one shot when the precedent of a durable MC "suit" type unit has been established.
Not to mention the fact that MCs are so much better in 6th than walkers could even hope for.
Land Raiders are an iconic unit too. Should they be changed to MCs as well?
Weird argument there, since I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking about Flying Knights, but, those sound like some nice rules there - you just make that up on the fly?
No he wasn't, but he was talking about making them MCs (whether it made sense or not) because MCs are better. So by same logic they could be flyers (whether it made sense or not), as flyers are better. But this is my pet peeve, things that are obviously vehicles not being vehicles bugs me a lot.
In any case Walkers with 13 or better armour are not that bad, and I think it could work. If you need them to be really durable, you can give them similar damage table re-roll that Venerable Dreads get.
sure it is, a pen with a melta, then a high roll, = 400? dead points
Then it shouldn't cost 400 points. Meltaguns are good at killing vehicles, that's their purpose. Do we just remove all vehicles from the game because a lucky shot with a melta can instakill them?
Much as I would like to agree with you (vehicles are vehicles and monstrous creatures are monstrous creatures!) you're fighting a very losing battle.
Your biggest error is attempting to apply any logic to the vehicle and MC rules in 40k. Before hull points, you might have had a case. Monstrous creatures took wounds and kept fighting until they died, while vehicles could shrug off hits indefinitely until discrete components were destroyed or something vital exploded. They were quite different, and they were different for a reason. Hull points were an arbitrary addition to the vehicle rules with no logic behind them. They exist simply to eliminate the frustration of glancing or stunning your enemy's tank all game and never killing it.
Now thanks to hull points, you have two different damage systems that are similar - you score your hits, you roll to wound/pen, and every successful roll deals one point of damage... except MCs are getting an armor save. And vehicles can still be crippled or exploded with one hit. Why don't tanks, which are covered in armor, also get an armor save? Why don't monstrous creatures, who also have vital components and weak points, have a damage table?
There's no real logic behind this at all, and one system is inherently much worse. So naturally when GW puts out new walkers, they make them Monstrous Creatures so they'll survive long enough to do something. The cat is already out of the bag - Riptides and Wraithknights are the new baseline, and if the Imperial Knight is a walker, it will be garbage compared to them, no questions asked. You're talking about AV13 walkers as though the armor matters - it's the equivalent of a toughness 9 creature with 3+ wounds, no armor save, AND the ability to cripple or kill it instantly every time you damage it. Once you include the effects of melta/armourbane and AP1 weapons, it's a complete joke. It's absolute garbage in comparison.
Now that the precedent has been set, as much as I would like to agree with you, I would rather that every walker in the game got Monstrous Creature rules. Until GW rewrites the core rules of the game, it's unavoidable now.
First0f0ne wrote: No but an Iconic unit such as a knight should not be one shot when the precedent of a durable MC "suit" type unit has been established.
Not to mention the fact that MCs are so much better in 6th than walkers could even hope for.
Land Raiders are an iconic unit too. Should they be changed to MCs as well?
Please read the whole sentence and don't respond to my thought out of context.
Now that the precedent has been set, as much as I would like to agree with you, I would rather that every walker in the game got Monstrous Creature rules. Until GW rewrites the core rules of the game, it's unavoidable now.
I agreed with you here, How the current game is designed I would very much like a version of the MC rules for all walkers. dreads, helbrutes, even sentinals
First0f0ne wrote: No but an Iconic unit such as a knight should not be one shot when the precedent of a durable MC "suit" type unit has been established.
Not to mention the fact that MCs are so much better in 6th than walkers could even hope for.
Land Raiders are an iconic unit too. Should they be changed to MCs as well?
Hear, hear. If Knights are not walkers, then nothing should be walkers, and GW should accept that their current vehicle rules are a joke.
Now that the precedent has been set, as much as I would like to agree with you, I would rather that every walker in the game got Monstrous Creature rules. Until GW rewrites the core rules of the game, it's unavoidable now.
GW will never do this. To do it would require dedication to game design in the abstract sense none of their current crop of slack-jawed yokels are capable of. Every single line of the entire rulebook and every army list needs to be rewritten by someone with half a brain and access to a professional proofreader/editor, and then, and only then, will the game be worth playing again.
It is obvious that MCs are better than Walkers, however, there are things that can mitigate those vulnerabilities somewhat, such as invulnerable saves and a rule such as 'venerable.' And yes, MCs are still better, but that's why we have point costs.
Crimson wrote: Land Raiders are an iconic unit too. Should they be changed to MCs as well?
Yes, please.
The separate set of rules for vehicles is one of the things that I have always disliked about 40K. At least from 3rd ed onwards when they took out all of the extra detail that actually meant that there was some point to them having separate rules...
It gets progressively more nonsensical with each new big robot that GW adds into the game as an MC instead of a walker... Which, for me, makes it time to just can the vehicle rules entirely and roll them all into MCs.
The separate set of rules for vehicles is one of the things that I have always disliked about 40K. At least from 3rd ed onwards when they took out all of the extra detail that actually meant that there was some point to them having separate rules...
It gets progressively more nonsensical with each new big robot that GW adds into the game as an MC instead of a walker... Which, for me, makes it time to just can the vehicle rules entirely and roll them all into MCs.
Oh I agree, the completely different rules for vehicles and non-vehicles is the thing that bugs me most in the 40K ruleset. But as long as this separation exists, vehicles should use actual vehicle rules.
I agree that walkers should be walkers, and giant creatures be MCs, but GW wants to move product, and the ruleset requires more comprehensive changes than they're willing to do as of yet.
On the front of making walkers more viable, however, is invuln saves. I've been using the character Contemptor dreadnought from IA12 for a while now, and while only having three HPs limits its staying power enormously (there should be more HP variation, much like there is with wounds between units), the invuln save and venerable rules means it rarely dies to a lucky shot, and can stand similar attrition as MCs. In fact, by being AV13 it's immune, or nearly immune, to more weapons than MCs are. Can't volume of fire down something like that easily, especially with a 4++.
Better than AV12 and a reliable save of some variety actually makes walkers not suck; problem is, most walkers, including really iconic ones are AV12 with no save, and thus simply die. But that's another matter. If they build these theoretical Knight rules somewhat akin to Contemptors, they likely won't suck while being vehicles.
However, I'm not terribly excited by the idea of yet more giant walkers which probably don't belong in normal games. Honestly, when's the last time we had a decent tank kit, or maybe focus some resources on replacing godawful or missing models still in the range, rather than stuff few people are really asking for?
However, I'm not terribly excited by the idea of yet more giant walkers which probably don't belong in normal games. Honestly, when's the last time we had a decent tank kit, or maybe focus some resources on replacing godawful or missing models still in the range, rather than stuff few people are really asking for?
I agree. However, as myself and others have noticed, GW is, and possibly increasingly, risk averse and conservative with its releases these days.
Why take the risk re-doing a model that people already own in another incarnation, therefore obligating yourself to really pull out all the stops and make it irresistible to those who don't need it, when you can make something up/trawl the archive, knock something up in Paint, glue a load of skulls on it, cobble together some half arsed rules and call it done?
I'm exaggerating, obviously, but hopefully you see what I'm saying.
Man I'm loving the whole knight titan idea...specially if its its own army....like an HQ, troops etc etc...walk on with 7 of those and go nuts lol...depending on the points cost and whatnot and if you could make every variant with one kit....
but why release the rules in a wd and still release plastic kits...if you miss out on the wd then there is no point in getting the kits right? Sounds kinda poopy...I bet they will toss them into the kits as well, so if you get the wd you have a nice book with the rules...but if not...here is something for ya in the kit too
If you miss out on the White Dwarf issue you can always get the rules in digital format, which is cute, but not super helpful for people do not possess a digital doohickey.
I hope this is true, I would love to see some knight models on 40k tables. It may or may not help sales of my Leviathans but from a strictly gamer hobbyist standpoint, I loves me some walkers
NoseGoblin wrote: I hope this is true, I would love to see some knight models on 40k tables. It may or may not help sales of my Leviathans but from a strictly gamer hobbyist standpoint, I loves me some walkers
We never would have guessed!
I'm with you on this one though - 40K Knights would be a sight to see!
This is a pretty exciting rumour to me. Despite never being an Imperial player at all I have fond memories of the Paladin Knights from the Titan Legions boxed set and seeing them on 40k battlefields would be pretty damn sweet. Shades of my younger days when squads of Stompas would take on squads of Knights in Epic. Hopefully it does indeed come to pass.
NoseGoblin wrote: I hope this is true, I would love to see some knight models on 40k tables. It may or may not help sales of my Leviathans but from a strictly gamer hobbyist standpoint, I loves me some walkers
I got 3 of your 15mm on the off chance we'd get Knight rules one day (or just make my own). Then the FWHH books make specific mention of them (as if they were eventually coming), and now this. That purchase I made of your lovely models is looking better and better every day.
NoseGoblin wrote: I hope this is true, I would love to see some knight models on 40k tables. It may or may not help sales of my Leviathans but from a strictly gamer hobbyist standpoint, I loves me some walkers
I got 3 of your 15mm on the off chance we'd get Knight rules one day (or just make my own). Then the FWHH books make specific mention of them (as if they were eventually coming), and now this. That purchase I made of your lovely models is looking better and better every day.
You did me one better there!
I 'only' got 2 - but I'll definitely be getting 1 of the 15mm Mortis versions, so I'll have a nice little Household of Three eventually!
GW's version is going to have to be an amazing work of art to beat DFG's though...
Kroothawk wrote: What better place to release rules for a new type of kit than in the weekly WD, that is only for sale for one week in GW stores, FLGSs and GW webshop with no chance for getting back issues after that. Well done!
Hence the reason it is unlikely and kind of a silly rumor. Either way, recent history says digital is much more likely, or even in box.
How long were Storm Raven, Ork plane and Battle Sister rules completely unavailable to anyone who didn't happen to score the relevant under-supplied White Dwarf?
Given how severely GWs relationship with digital products has changed over the past six months, I think it is foolish at best to look at the example of the Sisters of Battle, Dakkajet, or Stormtalon when wondering how any future White Dwarf rules releases are handled, you guys.
I think Defilers are the template for how Imperial Knights are represented. Defilers, even if not in name are effictively Chaos Knights. In epic, the most common knight has a cannon, a secondary weapon, a close combat weapon, and an energy shield of sorts. Maybe it's coincidental but that parallels a defilers cannon, reaper autocannons, crab claws, and it will not die.
Whichever division of GW is doing it I think its easy to presume this will not be a super heavy and will not have strength D weapons on the most basic form, since their nature insists they're part of a larger army of sorts with their own hierarchy with things more powerful than the basic paladin.
But even if you need to upgrade to the 28mm version of the DFG leviathans, you'll still get a great, functional "mini" at a much better price. Fully poseable and with custom weapon options.
I swear, if leviathans were to also transform into trucks, I'd be a happy man.
I think Defilers are the template for how Imperial Knights are represented. Defilers, even if not in name are effictively Chaos Knights. In epic, the most common knight has a cannon, a secondary weapon, a close combat weapon, and an energy shield of sorts. Maybe it's coincidental but that parallels a defilers cannon, reaper autocannons, crab claws, and it will not die.
True. You could play a pretty decent analogy to a Knight Paladin by just using the Defiler rules.
I think Defilers are the template for how Imperial Knights are represented. Defilers, even if not in name are effictively Chaos Knights. In epic, the most common knight has a cannon, a secondary weapon, a close combat weapon, and an energy shield of sorts. Maybe it's coincidental but that parallels a defilers cannon, reaper autocannons, crab claws, and it will not die.
True. You could play a pretty decent analogy to a Knight Paladin by just using the Defiler rules.
If the rumors are true, and beyond that FW were to have add-ons for other Knight variants they'd further likely have rules for a whole Knight army of sorts. That puts them in a position where they can't be more than just powerful conventional units. A Knight army would thus tend to be a walking Tank company, where relative to tanks they've traded nominal armor for the protection of power fields.
Huh, while searching for the Imperial Guard rumor thread, which I found and am very excited about, I discovered this (from 9/2013) -
Knight Paladin - Taller than riptide, not as tall as Wraithknight. Vanquisher cannon and Uber-chainsword are standard load out. May upgrade to Punisher Cannon, Uber-Fist with Inferno Flamers
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: Huh, while searching for the Imperial Guard rumor thread, which I found and am very excited about, I discovered this (from 9/2013) -
Knight Paladin - Taller than riptide, not as tall as Wraithknight. Vanquisher cannon and Uber-chainsword are standard load out. May upgrade to Punisher Cannon, Uber-Fist with Inferno Flamers
Seems to have already been known about!
That's actually from the fan-generated Bell of Lost Souls "Lords of Battle" supplement - it's been around for quite a while.
Sorry to disappoint, but the supplement is designed to provide trial rules for players for a lot of the older units. For example, it's also got IG Leviathans, Capitol Imperialis, and "goth" and "hun" variant Reaver Titans.
Quite a good read, but un-related to this news from Radio 40K.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: Huh, while searching for the Imperial Guard rumor thread, which I found and am very excited about, I discovered this (from 9/2013) -
Knight Paladin - Taller than riptide, not as tall as Wraithknight. Vanquisher cannon and Uber-chainsword are standard load out. May upgrade to Punisher Cannon, Uber-Fist with Inferno Flamers
Seems to have already been known about!
If you look at the old epic models, these are generally the sort of weapons that appear on them. That is to say it can simply be a case of supposition based on those models.
My biggest reason to believe its more guess work than true rumor, is this: when was the last time GW took a new model and straight forwardly gave the model a preexisting weapon?-GW's approach has been to come up with all these different new and unique weapon variances even when it looks just like a plasma cannon or assault cannon. How many different "flame" based weapons exist now? And now here we're talking about something as big a deal as Knights getting off the shelf weapons. Maybe these really are the weapon options, but it'd be uncharacteristic of GW.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: Huh, while searching for the Imperial Guard rumor thread, which I found and am very excited about, I discovered this (from 9/2013) -
Knight Paladin - Taller than riptide, not as tall as Wraithknight. Vanquisher cannon and Uber-chainsword are standard load out. May upgrade to Punisher Cannon, Uber-Fist with Inferno Flamers
I really hope that they will keep with the existing look and build of Imperial Knights like people want, rather than releasing something "cool and new!". Every large model from GW has to have some new-fangled ultra-weapon just to be "new". GW needs to understand that it's ok to use the weapons that already exist in their game!
It would be perfectly fine with me if a Knight "Paladin" (even if they demand to put a different name on it to me "new") simply had a Battle (or Vanquisher) cannon, twin-linked heavy bolters, and a titan-scale close combat weapon.
If they demand on making the art-style different just for the sake of distancing themselves from their own past (which they seem keen on doing) and putting some sort of uber-archeotech weapon loadouts on the Knights, I will simply get the Dreamforge models.
The 15mm Dreamforge "Knights" are half the price of what GW will be putting their Knights out at, and because I still mainly play games of 4th edition, I can simply use the VDR rules to make them respectful of the Epic versions, which is what they should be
ok, note to self, DO NOT PUT UNRELATED PICTURES WITH INFORMATION POSTED, it confuses people...
let us try this again...
THIS IS WHAT I FOUND ON DAKKA & WARSEER & A FEW OTHER SITES.....
FROM
november , 8
via StrykerSniper (WHO WAS ATGWHQ AND SAW THIS STUFF FIRST HAND) on Warseer :
I'm praying for stormtroopers, real ones, as a second troop choice. I did have a tiny look behind the iron curtain of GWs privacy policies, and I was able to see some mockups of the new veterans/stormtrooper boxed set, and it would be an amazing kit to build warbands or stormtrooper squads. Also I saw a model that appeared to be an Inquisitor, and was wearing a long cloak and armor.
I could see GW allowing stormtroopers as a troop choice to induce additional sales of the new kit, which, frankly, floored me. The details were great, with kasrkin style armor, and all sorts of weapons including hellguns, sniper rifles, special weapons, a cool missile launcher, a bunch of sergeant options, bolters, and lots of shotguns that managed to not look like scout shotguns. Also, the bolters did not look like marine shotuns, they were a little more human sized.
Some of the poses were also amazingly dynamic. Some were stoic standing poses, while a couple were very John Woo! There were also a lot of extra bits, poches, packs, grenades, knives, some scanner like equipment, and what appeared to be night vision goggles. If i were a puppy, I would've piddled on the rug, and it was a supreme act of will not to grab the models and run for the door. Apparently, they have also been ready for some time. Please dear God, let these see the light of my hobby store soon and I will have at least 5 boxes! This might even revitalize my Guard army.
Oh, and there were a bunch of heads! respirator heads, heads with berets, bald heads, heads with mohawks and crew cuts. Most were scarred, and one had an eyepatch, while another had a disfigured eye with what looked like claw marks, one head was smoking a stogie, and there were two heads with berets. There was even a knife that looked like a trench knife with raised knuckle dusters. There were scopes, a hand radio, and a bunch of bits for the bases including plants, a snake, and some ammo cans and satchel charges. There was even a hand holding an entrenching tool (shovel to you non-military types). There were a few holstered pistols, and as a delightful surprise, there were also autoguns in addition to lasguns, and there were bits for pistol and close combat weapon troops, although few were chainblades. There was a demo charge, melta bombs, and camo cloaks.
......etc........
There was a Knight Paladin that is taller than riptide, but not as tall as the Wraithknight. It seemed top have a vanquisher cannon and an Uber-chainsword, which are a standard load outs I am told. You may upgrade it to a punisher Cannon and/or also swap the chainsword out for an Uber-Fist with Inferno Flamers.
.......etc.........
I was very, very impressed. The attention to detail was phenomenal. If you have any questions, ask them quick, before I am "sanctioned" by the inquisition. What is that sound outside the window.......?
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: via StrykerSniper (WHO WAS ATGWHQ AND SAW THIS STUFF FIRST HAND) on Warseer :
Allegedly. This guy has no prior history so it is a crapshoot if he's telling the truth or not.
Yes, add salt before completely digesting it in... I find it odd that IG is out in March, that Dakka locked the IG Thread 16ish pages in (and another IG thread that started, only 2 pages in), yet Tyranids went on and on for months, (went off topic dozens of times) and even a new thread started because the old was over 100 pages, and never got locked... Wonder why.
True, this just means I don't need to rush and pay a king's ransom in order to get the Beowulf and Ripper Saw arms stat, now I can take my time and wait for a non-US distributor to start selling those babies.
Really wanting this to be true now, wow, it's been ages since I've been genuinely giddy about something 40k!
