Hey folks. So, a couple of threads on dating (or lack thereof) got me thinking some of the more lucky-in-love dakkanauts should pile in with some advice and help our brothers in arms to meet either that special someone, or (my personal preference) that unspecial anyone!
The thing is, it's really no mystery. Anyone, repeat ANYONE can get a date. I go on loads of them. I've got a few extra pounds (though working on it, with success), I'm over 30 and starting to resemble Bruce Willis in the follicle department. Yet, and without sounding like a total dick, I'm pretty successful when it comes to *ahem* 'the Ladies'. I'm going to share what works for me, and I would encourage the rest of you to do the same. Let's get these gentlemen hooked up!
Here's what works for me:
Part I: Confidence I am super confident in approaching women. Not because I look like Brad Pitt or have his bank balance, but because I genuinely don't give a feth about the outcome. This is like, some secret next-level gak I am sharing here. There is nothing more powerful than not giving a gak when talking to a woman. I don't mean being aloof or uninterested. This isn't the '50s. Act friendly and interested. Crack jokes. Make fun of her. If she does it back, you're onto something. It's sort of a negging approach, but gentler. I'll give you an example that happened to me literally yesterday: So, there's this awesome-looking girl in my office. She's incredible. Also, really intelligent, as it turns out. She's into chess. Anyway, who gives a gak what she's into, she struck up a conversation with me, ostensibly about work, so I invited her over to my desk to chat about it and to show her something which was on my desk that was related. As she gets to my desk, she spills her water on it, so I laughed at her and said 'smooth!'. Hey! I said I was confident, not a stand-up comedian! Now, she could have gotten all coy, or even offended, but instead she laughed and we ended up have a really nice conversation, during which she stood really close to me (proximity is a great indicator, more on that later) and gave off all sorts of positive signals.
Anyway, the key to building a romantic rapport (as opposed to a purely friendship-based one) is confidence and confidence comes not from arrogance and believing you're better than everyone else, because that's basically just hollow hubris. It's very fragile. True confidence comes from not giving a feth about how you are perceived. Not giving a feth is cool. Being cool gets you laid. The point I'm making is that I didn't give a gak what the girl would think about my sarky comment, which meant that I wasn't self-conscious, and so it came across playful as opposed to hostile or snide. Don't apologise, don't explain yourself, don't care - you will appear self-possessed and therefore dominant. We're just apes, after all...
Coming in Part II: 'The Importance of Proximity'
Over to you, Dakka. Any other advice for the bros?
Best advice I ever had was be confident and the worst that can happen is she says no. A little bit of common sense is necessary because sometimes its not a good time or idea to ask a certain person out, but the general idea always worked for me.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Best advice I ever had was be confident and the worst that can happen is she says no. A little bit of common sense is necessary because sometimes its not a good time or idea to ask a certain person out, but the general idea always worked for me.
Yeah, I was thinking of doing a chapter on setting realistic goals, but I guess that's all there is to it, really! Saying that, a cat can look at a king (or queen), so to speak. There is literally no reason not to speak to any girl, even if you think she's out of your league. I thought my last girlfriend was out of my league, but it actually turned out that she thought I was out of her league! Basically, my overall bearing and demeanour, plus (no arrogance intended at all) my intelligence, made her think she didn't stand a chance, weirdly. I mean, being wargamers, we're mostly of above average intelligence - we should use it to our advantage. Some girls REALLY dig intelligent men, but confidence and charm is key in putting it across in the right way.
Getting a date is a numbers game. If you approach more women, you'll find yourself meeting more girls you take an interest in, and the more of them you ask out for a coffee, the more who will say yes.
That is, of course, harder than it sounds, because for most of us rejection is pretty hard to take. The challenge is, like Albatross says, in just not giving a feth.
This is something I actually only figured when, of all places, my search of the internet for all truly crazy things took me to the Pick Up Artist community. Now these guys are really creepy and most of their ideas range between weird and completely insane, but the funny is that they have a much better success rate with women than a lot of guys. The interesting thing is that they get this success despite their their games and theories being incredibly stupid... but in focusing on games and method, they stop the pick up being personal - if a girl says no it is just a failure of their method, not a personal rejection. As a result, they can approach dozens of girls and not worry when they get turned down, because sooner or later a girl will say yes.
The trick is how to get that mindset without picking up any of the PUA community's misogyny. To learn to just move on when a girl says no. It isn't ever easier, but it gets easier with age, and easier the more you try it.
sebster wrote: To learn to just move on when a girl says no. It isn't ever easier, but it gets easier with age, and easier the more you try it.
In the same vein I'll say that getting your life in order absent the relationship is also important. If a girl turns me down I'll still be a healthy, successful man in his late 20's. This, of course, ties back into Albatross' point about confidence and will make you more attractive overall; regardless of sex and gender.
dogma wrote: In the same vein I'll say that getting your life in order absent the relationship is also important. If a girl turns me down I'll still be a healthy, successful man in his late 20's. This, of course, ties back into Albatross' point about confidence and will make you more attractive overall; regardless of sex and gender.
Yeah, very good point. Get your gak together, and be okay with where you're at whether you have a girl or not. It makes it easier to ask girls out, it means it doesn't matter so much when they say no, it increases the chances they'll say yes, and if you end up in a long term relationship then that relationship will stand a much better chance of lasting and being a positive experience.
Often men who have trouble with girls ask themselves, 'How can I get girls to like me?' This is the wrong question. What you should be asking yourself is, 'How can I become someone women will like?'
Hard words to hear, I know.
But if you're a pudgy ugly man with the personality of a dried pea who never leaves his house, never does anything creative, and isn't a millionaire, then your odds of getting that vivacious supermodel like girl are very slim. Because this is the real world, and that's hard enough for attractive men with a dozen talents. Even on those rare occasions where you see an exceedingly unattractive man with a very hot girl, it will be because he compensates for his lack of physical attractiveness elsewhere. He'll have spent his teen years learning how to play guitar, do amazing watercolour paintings, or writing a book. Something that made him attractive to a potential partner.
When you know you have self-worth, when you've achieved accomplishment in your life, that's when everything else tends to fall into place. If you take care of your body/health? If you spend your time teaching yourself new languages, or learning new skills? If you develop yourself as an individual? That's when the girls appear.
Sitting back eating cheetos, watching anime, playing video games and complaining about being friendzoned leaves you on the beach of the metaphorical gene pool. Sure, you might hook a girl in the same position, but the odds are you'll be taking what you can get as opposed to what you want, both in terms of personality and appearance.
Albatross wrote: Basically, my overall bearing and demeanour, plus (no arrogance intended at all) my intelligence, made her think she didn't stand a chance, weirdly. Some girls REALLY dig intelligent men, but confidence and charm is key in putting it across in the right way.
Not weird at all - this was one of the most important lessons for me. Intelligence is an asset, but unless you have a naturally "aggressive" approach to women, which shows you're interested, you might need to learn to handle it well.
I was never really shy or self-conscious, but certainly one of the more laid-back, let-it-happen-type of guys. At least that's what I thought. What I gathered over the course of my 20s was that instead I came across as friendly, but disinterested, unapproachable or even aloof, even though there was definite interest on the other side. For a long time I didn't understand why, as I was open, nice and rather successfull with my humor.
What I had to learn was to, for a lack of better words, "tone it down a bit"; and I don't mean acting dumber because all women are stupid, but showing that next to my intellectual side, there's a human being with strengths and weaknesses who's also really interested in the woman in front of him, not just the conversation. I simply never made that a topic before, because I was so caught up in "interesting things" to talk about that I always forgot to give a little of myself away as well.
Put yourself in an environment where there are lots of women who you will see regularly and can get comfortable chatting with.
An good example is some sort of sports club like running or triathlon. Ironically after I met my wife, I did both triathlon and running and got to know lots of women who were friendly and pretty fit (in both senses of the word). Quite a few were single too. Of course, I was married then, but it did occur to me that I really should have done it sooner.
Remember though, you are there to run, swim, socialise etc, not to pick up women. That part can happen naturally when you've got to know them.
Polonius wrote: It's easier then meeting whatever unrealistic standards you currently have set for yourself.
Not sure. I mean, for meeting the standard I at least know what I should do. How do you work on raising your self-worth if not by trying to improve yourself ?
Bullockist wrote: Also as someone who has had a few substamce issues, if you unnhappy about yourself chang something. Exersize is usually the best way to start positive change. Just a 15 minute walk in the sun every 2nd day will help change your outlook.
I tried doing push-ups every morning. It did help with body image, but still has all the rest to work on. And when I reached about 40 push-up a day, my wrist started hurting, so I stopped, out of fear I might damage something. Did not start again after the pain went away, but it was okay.
I also do 15 minutes biking uphill everyday, but usually under a gray sky rather than the sun, that is how I go to work .
Flashman wrote: Put yourself in an environment where there are lots of women who you will see regularly and can get comfortable chatting with
Yeah, I need to do that. Because I am quite unlikely to meet a girl at work (computer science PhD, not so many girls out here ) or at my LGS.
I need to find out something I like to do that will meet this requirement and fit in my schedule.
I've had such good luck lately with women that I've started throwing borderline homicidal phrases into conversation for the fun of it. I'm not sure if it's because they don't speak english well, or if they are actually turned on by the idea of me ripping open their bodies and mutilating them, but it seems to keep their attention pretty well.
I used to think that being a nice guy and listening to them and all that was the best way to get a girl, but it's really the worst. Doing the total opposite and not caring at all, almost treating romance like some psychological game works better. If nothing else, it's fun.
First off, Seb is right on the money about ignoring any pick up artist stuff if you are actually interested in a girlfriend, rather than sex.
Albatross is also dead on when he talks about confidence. I was really lacking in confidence when I was in school, really had low self worth. When I went to University, my confidence gradually increased. The thing is, it was still basically floating on a big ocean of unresolved insecurity, and every relationship problem I had in Uni can be traced back to that.
Confidence is a tricky thing. I recently had some trouble in my current relationship because moving country, not being able to speak the language and all that, put a dent in it. My girlfriend and I had some troubles, which seemed to partially go away when I got more comfortable in work and in my job, and felt more confident again.
It's not easy to build your confidence, but acknowledging the things you're good at is a good start.
Making a change to help yourself feel better, should be the first step. I didn't solve my problems with my girlfriend through any magical techniques- I started learning German, I knuckled down and focused on doing well in work, and started feeling better about myself. (There was some negotiation and discussion involved too, of course, but we both agreed it was the change in my confidence levels that had the biggest effect).
Back in my day we just stomped the ground, bellowed, and flashed the ladies our macho tusks.
I would also add, don't be serious. Don't make it life or death. Just invite someone out to something you're doing already. Dogma is correct in that get your freaking life sorted out first.
Also, biker bars are excellent places to meet gals for long term relationships.
As an aside, walking a really cute lovable dog is always a hit. Young wimminz love dem da wienie er dog.
British Dakkanauts, come to America, your accent over here is like using The Force or the voice of command from DUNE.
Despite having a face like a robber's dog, I am, almost daily, subjected to flirting and at least weekly, onto a sure thing if I want it, despite not looking at all. It's just a shame I didn't get myself over here at 17 and just spend a decade plundering the nation's finest, rather than coming over as a 37year old married man. The other really refreshing thing is that American girls don't give off so many weird mixed signals and so on, they are much more forward and clear on what their intentions are than British girls.
Bullockist wrote: Also as someone who has had a few substamce issues, if you unnhappy about yourself chang something. Exersize is usually the best way to start positive change. Just a 15 minute walk in the sun every 2nd day will help change your outlook.
I tried doing push-ups every morning. It did help with body image, but still has all the rest to work on. And when I reached about 40 push-up a day, my wrist started hurting, so I stopped, out of fear I might damage something. Did not start again after the pain went away, but it was okay.
I also do 15 minutes biking uphill everyday, but usually under a gray sky rather than the sun, that is how I go to work .
The whole exercize angle was more aimed at people who seem to be overly lacking in self confidence, just a small step that you stick to can provide the impetus to crawl out of the hole someone is in. The sense of sticking to something as miniscule as a 15 minute walk in the sun every 2 days can help someone realise that THEY can change their situation. Also vitamin D is VERY helpful for depression/anxiety. . Thucydides had it right “Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.”
and captain fantastic , man, sometimes you scare me. Next you'll be talking about having a skull in a fish tank. I am really hoping what you type is in jest. Also fear is a great attention grabber.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: British Dakkanauts, come to America, your accent over here is like using The Force or the voice of command from DUNE.
Despite having a face like a robber's dog, I am, almost daily, subjected to flirting and at least weekly, onto a sure thing if I want it, despite not looking at all. It's just a shame I didn't get myself over here at 17 and just spend a decade plundering the nation's finest, rather than coming over as a 37year old married man. The other really refreshing thing is that American girls don't give off so many weird mixed signals and so on, they are much more forward and clear on what their intentions are than British girls.
From my experience you are absolutely right on the accent point, and the fact that US ladies are generally much more direct. My wife always said that American chicks had a weak spot for accents, now that I'm here I can see how true that is. Nothing like standing chatting to your better half and a sales clerk coming over and demanding that I talk to her just so she can hear the accent (my wife thinks this is hilarious when it happens )
Da Boss wrote: To be fair though, Dreadclaw, the Northern Irish accent is probably the best one on the island Northern Irish accent on women, dead sexay.
My girlfriend makes fun of my (moi) accent all the toime. :(
It also has a real novelty value in the US because most people expect a Dublin accent when they think of an Irish accent
If I lose the accent I have to deport myself until I regain it, that was the deal She is amazed that I can somehow put random y's in words, and it is hilarious when she tries to copy the accent
sebster wrote: Getting a date is a numbers game. If you approach more women, you'll find yourself meeting more girls you take an interest in, and the more of them you ask out for a coffee, the more who will say yes.
.
I've got a friend who we call 'Mr 1%' for that very reason. He never lets a no get him down, and his asking of so many women eventually netted him a few responses of yes. Now he is in a happy relationship. So yeah, don't be afraid to be Mr 1%.
Couldn't find the one I was looking for, but I've always found Boomhauer to have some pretty profound advice. Basically it's a numbers game. Don't get hung up one one single woman if she's not interested. Be confident, be funny, avoid being intensely serious.
I've asked hundreds of girls out, it's not about not taking "no" for an answer, it's about hearing "no" and realizing that it doesn't mean you can't try again with somebody else. Not the end of the world. Sometimes you hear "yes" and that's when you get to be the confident, fun guy that you are Sometimes women fall into your lap, for some men more than others. I will never forget meeting a girl and 10 minutes later fething her. Seriously, I got shot down all the time. But once in awhile I didn't, and I always got to close the deal almost immediately. Makes it all worth it.
I joined an online dating site and must've sent 30 emails. of those 30 I got 3 responses. Good enough, especially since one of those three is the best woman I've ever come across, and is now my fiancee.
Actually, "avoid being intensely serious" is great advice. When I was doing my PhD and immediately after I quit, I was really serious and dour, and I had zero luck with making friends with ANYONE, let alone laydees, at that time.
Lots of us nerds tend to be a bit intense, but cooling off on it is a good thing a lot of the time!
It was only online correspondence that brought out my less than absolutely dour and serious side. (Which is weird, because I'm a lot less jokey on Dakka now than I am in real life.)
Polonius wrote: It's easier then meeting whatever unrealistic standards you currently have set for yourself.
Not sure. I mean, for meeting the standard I at least know what I should do. How do you work on raising your self-worth if not by trying to improve yourself ?
Why do you need to improve yourself? You seem to have pegged yourself as deficient in some way! The key is to do something that boosts your confidence, that makes you feel good about being you. Become confident and you will magically 'improve' in the eyes of women.
I would definitely recommend some sort of exercise, as someone else mentioned. For me, weight-training has made a huge difference to my self-esteem levels. I think it must be all that extra testosterone sloshing around in my system! Test is great for boosting your overall confidence, so look to increase it by performing large compound exercises like squats and deadlifts, get plenty of sleep and consider supplementing with Zinc and vitamin D.
Saw the thread title and thought I'd chime in, but you guys pretty much have it covered.
Project confidence? Check.
Try and try again? Check.
Get your gak together? Check.
Like I said in the other thread, what will really undermine you with the first two points is to build things up too much. The best way to avoid this is to ACT. You see a girl you'd like to talk to, do it NOW. Waiting and watching and pining away will make you less than confident heading in and also put too much of your ego on the chopping block if she isn't into you. See girl, approach girl. Rinse and repeat.
As an aside, if you're like me, the thing that will take your desirability up to Super Saiyan level is to get married. Because I'm not looking anymore and don't care. Albatross knows this and has the advantage of being single, so he's got the special sauce. If I could give my 25 year old self the knowledge I have know, my young self would CLEAN UP. Seriously.
One thing I'd add to the last point above -- which is specifically relevant to Dakka -- is to get yourself some interests and knowledge outside of geek stuff. Read some popular books, watch some popular TV shows, read/watch the news, whatever. This gives you a stronger base from which to start casual conversation with regular girls. It should go without saying that the dating pool is ridiculously deeper if you don't limit yourself to gamer girls. So don't. And do what you need to do to be able to start a conversation with them.
Da Boss wrote: Actually, "avoid being intensely serious" is great advice. When I was doing my PhD and immediately after I quit, I was really serious and dour, and I had zero luck with making friends with ANYONE, let alone laydees, at that time.
Lots of us nerds tend to be a bit intense, but cooling off on it is a good thing a lot of the time!
I have a buddy. Good looking, athletic, ripped actually. Abs that every man wants. Immediately gets attention from women. His "game" however consists of being as intense as he possibly can. He has it in his head that women want the strong-silent type, so he consistently stares without blinking or saying anything, jaw clenched. Women are immediately turned off. I don't know how many times I've told him he's got to lighten up, personality goes a loooong way with women. They are social creatures, they love interaction, so as men looking for women we have to go to where they are, and that means being social creatures in that environment. Once you hook 'em long term, then you can be a somber bastard
MeanGreenStompa wrote: British Dakkanauts, come to America, your accent over here is like using The Force or the voice of command from DUNE.
Despite having a face like a robber's dog, I am, almost daily, subjected to flirting and at least weekly, onto a sure thing if I want it, despite not looking at all. It's just a shame I didn't get myself over here at 17 and just spend a decade plundering the nation's finest, rather than coming over as a 37year old married man. The other really refreshing thing is that American girls don't give off so many weird mixed signals and so on, they are much more forward and clear on what their intentions are than British girls.
From my experience you are absolutely right on the accent point, and the fact that US ladies are generally much more direct. My wife always said that American chicks had a weak spot for accents, now that I'm here I can see how true that is. Nothing like standing chatting to your better half and a sales clerk coming over and demanding that I talk to her just so she can hear the accent (my wife thinks this is hilarious when it happens )
The flip side to that is if you're from the U.S. and pursue a girl not from the U.S., she might expect you to pursue a little harder and give you fewer strong, positive signals than you're used to. This depends on her country and culture, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that it's definitely something to keep in mind when chasing international tail.
The perfect situations for me are parties/gatherings with friends of friends. I find people tend to be drawn to my conversations and a small group forms around me. If I see a cute girl peeking over then I'll approach her in a few minutes after that.
Once the conversation is started, I just go through the motions (Hi I'm (blank), how do you know so and so, oh cool! blah blah). Then playfully poke fun at them (hopefully they will return the favour), make a mental note of things they are saying and bring it up later in the conversation as a joke or something if possible.
More introverted people can sometimes easily be offended or feel slightly overwhelmed, but then again I'm not interested in that type anyways so it's for the best.
I'm not going to lie though - if you are over 6 ft, in decent shape, and dress decently (dress matter a lot for the type I'm after!) then you can take your pick. As others have said, personality is the main factor. Its best to stick to your guns in terms of interests and your overall behaviour. Act as you would normally, don't pretend to be something your not because you will get called out on it eventually and thats a deal breaker right off the bat.
One thing that is killing me personally is age at the moment. I'm 25 and despite the stupid things I post here, I feel a little older in terms of where I am in my career and mindset. It seems every girl I come accross who seems ideal is this magic #28 - many of them just won't date down regardless of how I come accross during a conversation or how well I'm doing with my career. Those that are within that 23-26 age range just don't interest me - lack of goals/focus, slacking in school/not looking for a solid job and just not seriously looking for a relationship. Bad luck I guess
gorgon wrote: The flip side to that is if you're from the U.S. and pursue a girl not from the U.S., she might expect you to pursue a little harder and give you fewer strong, positive signals than you're used to. This depends on her country and culture, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that it's definitely something to keep in mind when chasing international tail.
I was lucky that with my wife there was mutual interest, and we were both able to be pretty up front with each other. If there were any lingering doubts (there weren't) then they would have been blown away at our first meeting.
Albatross wrote: The thing is, it's really no mystery. Anyone, repeat ANYONE can get a date. I go on loads of them. I've got a few extra pounds (though working on it, with success), I'm over 30 and starting to resemble Bruce Willis in the follicle department. Yet, and without sounding like a total dick, I'm pretty successful when it comes to *ahem* 'the Ladies'. I'm going to share what works for me, and I would encourage the rest of you to do the same. Let's get these gentlemen hooked up!
Oh come on now Alby, we all know you have the voice of an angel... I still get all weak in the knees whenever I listed to Annihilation.
There is nothing more powerful than not giving a gak when talking to a woman. I don't mean being aloof or uninterested. This isn't the '50s. Act friendly and interested. Crack jokes. Make fun of her. If she does it back, you're onto something. It's sort of a negging approach, but gentler.
I think that, right there, might be a huge part of my problem... though I also think part of that is that I might have an irrational fear that if I show any interest whatsoever then women will suddenly lose interest in me... that fear is (in part) based on prior experience, though it isn't necessarily an accurate conclusion to reach, merely the one that seems to fit the observations.
Getting a date is a numbers game. If you approach more women, you'll find yourself meeting more girls you take an interest in, and the more of them you ask out for a coffee, the more who will say yes.
Personally, I'm not a fan of that approach. I mean, it seems good if all you're after is a date and you don't really care with who/what, but if you're after something in particular then it takes a bit more effort and focus.
This is something I actually only figured when, of all places, my search of the internet for all truly crazy things took me to the Pick Up Artist community. Now these guys are really creepy and most of their ideas range between weird and completely insane, but the funny is that they have a much better success rate with women than a lot of guys. The interesting thing is that they get this success despite their their games and theories being incredibly stupid... but in focusing on games and method, they stop the pick up being personal - if a girl says no it is just a failure of their method, not a personal rejection. As a result, they can approach dozens of girls and not worry when they get turned down, because sooner or later a girl will say yes.
Sadly enough that sort of objectification is what most girls will tell you they ARENT interested in... this is also a dangerous approach (to the user of such techniques) as it borders on sociopathic.
The trick is how to get that mindset without picking up any of the PUA community's misogyny. To learn to just move on when a girl says no. It isn't ever easier, but it gets easier with age, and easier the more you try it.
This is true.
Sitting back eating cheetos, watching anime, playing video games and complaining about being friendzoned leaves you on the beach of the metaphorical gene pool. Sure, you might hook a girl in the same position, but the odds are you'll be taking what you can get as opposed to what you want, both in terms of personality and appearance.
And this!!!
I was never really shy or self-conscious, but certainly one of the more laid-back, let-it-happen-type of guys. At least that's what I thought. What I gathered over the course of my 20s was that instead I came across as friendly, but disinterested, unapproachable or even aloof, even though there was definite interest on the other side. For a long time I didn't understand why, as I was open, nice and rather successfull with my humor.
What I had to learn was to, for a lack of better words, "tone it down a bit"; and I don't mean acting dumber because all women are stupid, but showing that next to my intellectual side, there's a human being with strengths and weaknesses who's also really interested in the woman in front of him, not just the conversation. I simply never made that a topic before, because I was so caught up in "interesting things" to talk about that I always forgot to give a little of myself away as well.
I'm realizing this about myself as well.
The other really refreshing thing is that American girls don't give off so many weird mixed signals and so on, they are much more forward and clear on what their intentions are than British girls.
REALLY!??? Thats like the complete opposite of my experience.
In any case, I think the Aussie accent does more for American women than the English one... le sigh, if only I spoke like that
Like I said in the other thread, what will really undermine you with the first two points is to build things up too much. The best way to avoid this is to ACT. You see a girl you'd like to talk to, do it NOW. Waiting and watching and pining away will make you less than confident heading in and also put too much of your ego on the chopping block if she isn't into you. See girl, approach girl. Rinse and repeat.
Sometimes its not that simple, in my case it seems every girl I want to approach is always with someone (as in a guy), they might be just friends, they might be dating or whatever, in any case to me it doesn't matter, I have a pretty strict personal policy against that sort of thing, because I've been on the receiving end of that (over-confident dude trying to make a move on my date) a few times and absolutely hate it and wouldnt perpetuate that by doing it to others... interestingly enough though, it seems that married women/girls that are dating other dudes can't leave me be. Towards the end of this past summer there was probably a 6 week long stretch where every weekend a married (or otherwise unavailable) woman was making a pass at me, it really sucks cuz I ain't about that life.
As an aside, if you're like me, the thing that will take your desirability up to Super Saiyan level is to get married. Because I'm not looking anymore and don't care. Albatross knows this and has the advantage of being single, so he's got the special sauce. If I could give my 25 year old self the knowledge I have know, my young self would CLEAN UP. Seriously.
Your words are wise.
It should go without saying that the dating pool is ridiculously deeper if you don't limit yourself to gamer girls. So don't. And do what you need to do to be able to start a conversation with them.
Butbutbutbutbut... hot gamer girl covered in tattoos is like the holy grail...
I have a buddy. Good looking, athletic, ripped actually. Abs that every man wants. Immediately gets attention from women. His "game" however consists of being as intense as he possibly can. He has it in his head that women want the strong-silent type, so he consistently stares without blinking or saying anything, jaw clenched. Women are immediately turned off. I don't know how many times I've told him he's got to lighten up, personality goes a loooong way with women.
Oh gawd... this sounds so much like me... except the abs part.
One thing that is killing me personally is age at the moment. I'm 25 and despite the stupid things I post here, I feel a little older in terms of where I am in my career and mindset. It seems every girl I come accross who seems ideal is this magic #28 - many of them just won't date down regardless of how I come accross during a conversation or how well I'm doing with my career. Those that are within that 23-26 age range just don't interest me - lack of goals/focus, slacking in school/not looking for a solid job and just not seriously looking for a relationship.
This also sounds a lot like my quandry....
Step 1: Don't go to Dakka for dating advice.
I have a theory that dakka is actually a better resource for dating advice than you think. There are clearly members of the dakka community that have success with women and know a thing or two about it. These people are a better resource to the average gamer/nerd type than muscles mcgee over on pickupartistonline or whatever website it is that they use, because dakkites usually will have a similar background and set of hobbies, interests, etc. and will be able to relate better to a dakka users situation, etc.
Straightforward and smart stuff right there. This is directed at men but works for women as well.
I can't wait to see where Alby is taking this thread, but I'm sure it will be a fun ride.
Get out there. Join a Meetup.com group for something non-nerdy like wine tasting or hiking. Chicks love wine, you like wine, you like chicks... fething go!
Straightforward and smart stuff right there. This is directed at men but works for women as well.
I can't wait to see where Alby is taking this thread, but I'm sure it will be a fun ride.
Get out there. Join a Meetup.com group for something non-nerdy like wine tasting or hiking. Chicks love wine, you like wine, you like chicks... fething go!
The only time I went to a wine tasting thing was with another couple. the girlz wouldn't finish their glasses, so we were forced to. Add on some port we had to taste and some crown royals when we stumbled from there to the next door Olive Garden, and us Menz were bombed out of our skulls before the evening even started.
MANDATORY STEP: Step 1: Be attractive to the other person.
Step 2: Don't be super shy.
And that's it. It's pretty much that simple. If they think you're attractive, however they define that term, you simply need to have the confidence to act on it.
Confidence is the last .2 miles of the marathon, but attraction is the difference between sexy-time and sexual harassment.
The downside of this is that there's not really a magic way to act that will suddenly make you more attractive to someone who does not feel that way. If you don't fit within their "type" you're pretty much sunk.
And this is fairly true for both genders, frankly. Guys and Girls both have their "types," and just as a woman might deny a guy for being too large, men obviously do the same.
Then you bounce around between people who are your physical "type" until you find someone whose personality is compatible enough that you can stand them for longer than a few months of partying, and voila, marriage, or whatever long term partnership they choose (which has a 50% chance of failing).
MANDATORY STEP: Step 1: Be attractive to the other person.
If they think you're attractive, however they define that term, you simply need to have the confidence to act on it.
You qualified Step 1 with that 2nd sentence, but worth reinforcing that looks aren't everything where women are concerned. Personality goes a long way.
Bullockist wrote: The whole exercize angle was more aimed at people who seem to be overly lacking in self confidence
I am ! It is not as obvious on the internet as it is when physically meeting me. It may not even be obvious when meeting physically to some people. But I sure am. Bad body image was just a tiny part of it.
Da Boss wrote: Actually, "avoid being intensely serious" is great advice. When I was doing my PhD and immediately after I quit, I was really serious and dour, and I had zero luck with making friends with ANYONE, let alone laydees, at that time.
Lots of us nerds tend to be a bit intense, but cooling off on it is a good thing a lot of the time!
Nerds being too serious ? I would have thought the other way around. I mean, I consider all those goddamn crazy movies I like (from Troma to Sushi Typhoon) to be very nerdy, but also as far from serious as can be. Except if serious is to be taken in the Serious Sam sense, maybe. Well, geek/nerd are such a blurry notions nowadays anyway…
gorgon wrote: One thing I'd add to the last point above -- which is specifically relevant to Dakka -- is to get yourself some interests and knowledge outside of geek stuff. Read some popular books, watch some popular TV shows, read/watch the news, whatever. This gives you a stronger base from which to start casual conversation with regular girls. It should go without saying that the dating pool is ridiculously deeper if you don't limit yourself to gamer girls. So don't. And do what you need to do to be able to start a conversation with them.
Well, geek stuff is going more and more mainstream anyway. I mean, I am pretty sure there are many, many more girls that would enjoy talking about stuff like Games of Throne now than there would have been about Star Trek a few years back.
But yeah, it is obviously almost always harder to speak about, say, music with random people when your favorite music style is something obscure and niche like psychobilly rather than ultra-mainsteam like pop-rock. Niche interests can also be assets if you are lucky though, I think, If you discover some psychobilly chick and she discovers you share her musical tastes, it will be a much more meaningful shared interest. I mean, they do not get to meet other people that enjoy the same music they do as often as pop-rock fan.
Flashman wrote: but worth reinforcing that looks aren't everything where women are concerned. Personality goes a long way.
I guess what women cares about is just the same as what men care about. Analyzing what you want should give a pretty good idea of what they want. Not taking it too literally, of course, women do not want men with big boobs , but more like almost everyone will prefer being with someone who is just fun rather than someone who is nicer but oh so boring.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oups, most important part of my last message went missing somehow.
Because I feel like at every step during my education, I had to be given a second chance, or have pityed my way in, rather than actually just succeed at anything. Because it seems I can not just focus on work, and will always look for something else, anything really, to do instead, and that will just certainly create big problems for me in some close future. Because I can not even get a decent amount of sleep because no matter how many time I decide that I will impose on myself a rigorous sleep schedule, when it is time to sleep, I always have an irresistible urge to do something else, anything really, rather than sleeping. Because I have absolutely no willpower whatsoever, and my life is so much worse than what it could be (not that I am complaining about my life, I am way too lucky for it not to be obscene, but that will not make me to like myself). Because there is such a gap between what I want to do, and what I actually do. Getting a girlfriend would just be icing on the cake !
MANDATORY STEP: Step 1: Be attractive to the other person.
If they think you're attractive, however they define that term, you simply need to have the confidence to act on it.
You qualified Step 1 with that 2nd sentence, but worth reinforcing that looks aren't everything where women are concerned. Personality goes a long way.
Actually, I think I misspoke by using "need" in that 2nd sentence. I should have read "term, then having the confidence to act on it is generally sufficient."
You can still be lacking in confidence and be successful, it simply requires the other person to be that much more confident and willing to approach. If a guy is shy, it won't bar success if the woman comes up and makes it clear he won't be rejected. Once there is mutual attraction, one of the parties has to have enough of it to approach, and the other party should be accepting enough to show that their approach is not being rejected. Like, if someone is really attracted to someone else, they'll likely be willing to forgive some shyness, because the payoff for not writing off someone attractive because of confidence issues is high enough that a second chance is warranted (that's also the reason people forgive their significant others for doing really stupid things, the costs of staying with them are outweighed by the benefits of staying).
But there has to be attraction in the first place. Attraction is not always based on looks (some people look for positive things for the right reasons, such as intellect, and some people look for positive things for the wrong reasons, like money), but it usually is heavily based on physical attraction. Compatible personality minus attraction tends to result in friendship, while compatible personality plus attraction equals relationship. Attraction alone tends to result in booty calls.
Confidence is a very important step in the courting process, but it is usually separate from the issue of attraction. It helps chances (if you walk into a room with 100 people of the opposite gender and 20 find you attractive, having the confidence to hit on 10 of them makes you far more likely to be successful than having the confidence to only talk to 3), and can help to ensure someone learns enough about you that they can make an educated decision on their level of attraction (assuming their standard for attraction is not looks-based, like discovering common interests), but unless confidence is the determinative factor through which they decide if someone is attractive or not, it ends up sort of being it's own issue that is secondary in importance to attraction.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Well, geek stuff is going more and more mainstream anyway. I mean, I am pretty sure there are many, many more girls that would enjoy talking about stuff like Games of Throne now than there would have been about Star Trek a few years back.
Debatable. While geeky/nerdy things like comic book movies and game of thrones are becoming more accessible, I'd argue they have always been 'mainstream'. Star Trek, Star Wars, et al. have always been fairly popular (maybe not amongst women), hell the kids that picked on me for being a nerd or what have you when I was little watched those movies/played those games, etc. The difference, however, is that those kids didn't read the books, study the history, buy the essential guides/encyclopedias, debate what it means to make the Kessel run in 12 parsecs, etc. etc. etc. In other words, they liked that stuff, but they weren't fans. Likewise, for the most part, things like Game of Thrones, the Marvel comic movies (because as much as I like DC, their movies are terrible), etc. are more accessible to women these days, and women even like those things, but they aren't necessarily fans who are going to dig into the comics, study the history, debate whether or not the Kirby Silver Surfer was better than the Moebius Silver Surfer, etc.
But yeah, it is obviously almost always harder to speak about, say, music with random people when your favorite music style is something obscure and niche like psychobilly rather than ultra-mainsteam like pop-rock.
Oddly enough I know a lot of girls that ARE into that obscure/indy music scene lol probably more than those that listen to the poppy top 20 stuff on the radio
Because I feel like at every step during my education, I had to be given a second chance, or have pityed my way in, rather than actually just succeed at anything. Because it seems I can not just focus on work, and will always look for something else, anything really, to do instead, and that will just certainly create big problems for me in some close future. Because I can not even get a decent amount of sleep because no matter how many time I decide that I will impose on myself a rigorous sleep schedule, when it is time to sleep, I always have an irresistible urge to do something else, anything really, rather than sleeping. Because I have absolutely no willpower whatsoever, and my life is so much worse than what it could be (not that I am complaining about my life, I am way too lucky for it not to be obscene, but that will not make me to like myself). Because there is such a gap between what I want to do, and what I actually do.
Getting a girlfriend would just be icing on the cake !
chaos0xomega wrote: Star Trek, Star Wars, et al. have always been fairly popular
Star Wars maybe, but Star Trek ? Really ?
chaos0xomega wrote: Likewise, for the most part, things like Game of Thrones, the Marvel comic movies (because as much as I like DC, their movies are terrible), etc. are more accessible to women these days, and women even like those things, but they aren't necessarily fans who are going to dig into the comics, study the history, debate whether or not the Kirby Silver Surfer was better than the Moebius Silver Surfer, etc.
Well, it is true that much more people seem to have saw the series rather than read A Song of Ice and Fire. As for comics… well, they are not really popular in France. Actually, manga are. Much more than even our own, home-made bande-dessinée (which is a bit sad, especially since it is in general way less driven by commercial decisions than both comics and manga). And there are quite a bunch of girls reading manga. Well, usually younger girls, but still.
chaos0xomega wrote: Oddly enough I know a lot of girls that ARE into that obscure/indy music scene lol probably more than those that listen to the poppy top 20 stuff on the radio
I know quite a lot of girls that are quite geeky. No wonder. Alike people go together, or whatever is the actual idiomatic expression in English.
That is quite a “swim or die” solution . Not sure it would help. Following orders is not the same as having self-discipline. Also would cause problem for my academic career.
That is quite a “swim or die” solution . Not sure it would help. Following orders is not the same as having self-discipline. Also would cause problem for my academic career.
Well, geek stuff is going more and more mainstream anyway. I mean, I am pretty sure there are many, many more girls that would enjoy talking about stuff like Games of Throne now than there would have been about Star Trek a few years back.
Truth. I met a stripper in Nashville who was a massive Dr. Who fan and, as it turns out, anglophile. Yes, I asked her out. In the strip joint. Why the feth not? She said yes. We had a lovely time.
Because I feel like at every step during my education, I had to be given a second chance, or have pityed my way in, rather than actually just succeed at anything. Because it seems I can not just focus on work, and will always look for something else, anything really, to do instead, and that will just certainly create big problems for me in some close future. Because I can not even get a decent amount of sleep because no matter how many time I decide that I will impose on myself a rigorous sleep schedule, when it is time to sleep, I always have an irresistible urge to do something else, anything really, rather than sleeping. Because I have absolutely no willpower whatsoever, and my life is so much worse than what it could be (not that I am complaining about my life, I am way too lucky for it not to be obscene, but that will not make me to like myself). Because there is such a gap between what I want to do, and what I actually do.
Getting a girlfriend would just be icing on the cake !
You just described the life of literally almost everyone, more or less. To a certain extent. The difference is our attitude towards it. You think everyone has their gak together? It's all relative. The key is to enjoy your life as it is, but making positive changes where needed.
Ahtman wrote: The best way to get a date/impress someone is to slide up next to them and say "Hey, I play Orks".
Is that a good way to start, implying she looks like an ork?
Hybrid son , I'd say start creating an "aura" of discipline/order , establish a time table for doing small tasks and then take the time to enjoy making those small achievements. Works for me even on small tasks like cleaning, i started doing this about 1 year ago and it's obscene how much relief i feel after doing some housework. This then follows on to other parts of your life because you get in a habit of completeing things. I have a huge problem with sleep, forcing yourself to stay in bed not thinking about anything or how you should be sleeping is amazingly theraputic in fact lying in bed letting my brain defragment can be almost as good as a nights sleep. I also to have the attention span of a gnat unfortunately creating order around me seems to be the best way to deal with it.
Da Boss wrote: First off, Seb is right on the money about ignoring any pick up artist stuff if you are actually interested in a girlfriend, rather than sex.
Except the numbers thing. The PUA community is bang on the money about the numbers thing - put yourself out there and approach girls. The more girls you approach, the more will say yes. This doesn't mean throw yourself in front of every women you ever see, but it does mean that if you see a single girl you like, go up and say 'hi'.
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Frazzled wrote: I would also add, don't be serious. Don't make it life or death.
Yeah, this is also really good advice.
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Da Boss wrote: It was only online correspondence that brought out my less than absolutely dour and serious side. (Which is weird, because I'm a lot less jokey on Dakka now than I am in real life.)
Dakka is the place I use to get all the shouting out of my system
I honestly am not sure about either of you , but i believe I owe you guys some money from the laughter your multiquote argments generated a few months ago. I was up to the 5th page of some topic and lo and behold a sebster/seaward argument started and kept going the whole page, I think"geez this seems like a good one" , check the next page, still going, the next, still going and this point i think "WTF guys" and burst out laughing. 3 pages of internet argument is dedicated.
There are other ways to get disciplined. Ones that don't involve pledging yourself to an organization whose goals you might not actually agree with.
Just a thought.
Oh, and a couple bits of advice: DRESS WELL. Seriously people. It's not hard or expensive to do this. Plus, you just feel better when you wear good clothes. On a related note, GROOM. Shower regularly, brush your teeth twice a day, floss, wear good deodorant/cologne*, get a flattering haircut. This is all basic stuff that an appallingly large amount of men, especially single men, neglect to do.
Oh yeah, and be yourself and be comfortable with that. Putting on a facade is a good way to end up with the wrong person. Potential partners need to know who you really are.
~Tim?
*you want it to be subtle and not overpowering - Axe=NO
Yeah, the importance of a decent anti-perspirant and cologne cannot be overstated. I wear Paul Smith for Men or YSL L'Homme (depending on the occasion) and they both go down well. If a woman actually TELLS you that you smell amazing (as opposed to just thinking it) it's a good start.
Albatross wrote: Yeah, the importance of a decent anti-perspirant and cologne cannot be overstated. I wear Paul Smith for Men or YSL L'Homme (depending on the occasion) and they both go down well. If a woman actually TELLS you that you smell amazing (as opposed to just thinking it) it's a good start.
I've worn any kind of that stuff about... 15 times in my life. Every version of perfume gives me major headaches so I can't be arsed. It helps that I don't exert myself much.
chaos0xomega wrote: Oddly enough I know a lot of girls that ARE into that obscure/indy music scene lol probably more than those that listen to the poppy top 20 stuff on the radio
I know quite a lot of girls that are quite geeky. No wonder. Alike people go together, or whatever is the actual idiomatic expression in English.
That is quite a “swim or die” solution . Not sure it would help. Following orders is not the same as having self-discipline. Also would cause problem for my academic career.
"Birds of a feather flock together." I'm a man of many faces and travel in many circles, including more athletically oriented ones, I know lots of girls that are into really really heavy/dark metal, rockabilly, bands I've never heard of, *insert arbitrary, random, and superfluous sub-genre here*, etc.
As for the following orders/discipline thing, I disagree but fair enough, I found my experience with ROTC helped me out a lot in many, many ways (although in a sense it damaged me, because my tolerance for the level of bs in the civilian world has dropped through the floor, probably why I'm trying to get into OTS/OCS so badly lol).
There are other ways to get disciplined. Ones that don't involve pledging yourself to an organization whose goals you might not actually agree with.
Just a thought.
Fine, Air Force or Marine Corps if you want to be a real man Oh, you meant you DON'T want to be a real man? Fine... Coast Guard... but not the Navy. Seriously though, military service in France is a good bit different than in the US, aside from the standard issue white flags (JOKING!!!), they tend to do the humanitarian/peacekeeping thing primarily (rather than being used as a warfighting/political instrument) more like the National Guard in the US (without the combat deployments to the mid-east for a decade +), so unless you disagree with protecting people from harm and assisting in recovery, etc. that shouldn't really be an issue.
Oh, and a couple bits of advice: DRESS WELL. Seriously people. It's not hard or expensive to do this. Plus, you just feel better when you wear good clothes.
On a related note, GROOM. Shower regularly, brush your teeth twice a day, floss, wear good deodorant/cologne*, get a flattering haircut. This is all basic stuff that an appallingly large amount of men, especially single men, neglect to do.
This is dangerous advice to give if the person receiving it has a different perspective on what it means to dress well and groom. What you're trying to tell them is to dress in a trendy and sophisticated manner, for example by wearing a grey tailored suit with brown leather wingtip shoes and matching brown belt, perhaps a pink button up beneath the jacket with the top two buttons undone to reveal a white crew neck underneath... what they *MIGHT* be hearing is "Oh, so I should put on my best black leather trenchcoat with my favorite black Megadeath t-shirt and the black pants with neon green accents I got at Hot Topic with the chains crossed behind the back and my studded arm bracelets, etc. etc.
at least you qualified your statement by telling them not to use Axe though!
Better, try suggesting that someone looking to improve their fashion sense and style pick up say... Mens Health, or perhaps check out askmen.com or similar sites online...
As for scent, scent is IMPORTANT, though I think cologne should be severely limited to only formal occasions. Personally, I am of the philosophy that you should 'brand' yourself with a certain scent. For this reason, I have been using the same shampoo, soap, and deoderant for about 4 years now, its kind of like my 'odor identity' and I get complimented all the time over it. It's very subtle and the ladies only really pick up on it once they get closer to me (physically speaking), but you never want to lay all your cards down on the table up-front anyway. What you want to happen is to draw them in with looks, charm, and personality, and once they're within range of your scent they'll be thinking "Oh damn, and he smells amazing too, must know more about him!"
Albatross wrote: Yeah, the importance of a decent anti-perspirant and cologne cannot be overstated. I wear Paul Smith for Men or YSL L'Homme (depending on the occasion) and they both go down well. If a woman actually TELLS you that you smell amazing (as opposed to just thinking it) it's a good start.
I never really got into wearing cologne - the smell kind of annoys me. I'd rather just smell like nothing
When it comes to aftershave, I have a few that I switch between. The main one that I use at the moment is Encounter by Calvin Klein. I also have the Police - To Be aftershave which is cheap and cheerful. I'd recommend them both. I had a third one recently that was nice. Can't remember the damned name of it though.
We have one currently at the fitting rooms in our work which is pretty nice. I think it is Valentino by Valentino(?) . It's definitely called Valentino anyway. It's pretty nice but might not be for everybody as it has a bit of an ambiguous smell.
Just go into a large department store and have a nosey (in both senses!). I'd imagine it to be very hard for somebody to go in and not find something that they like.
Getting over the taking it personally part might take a while. Certainly I take things to heart too quickly sometimes and I'm learning not to or at least trying not to. The not giving a feth method is really good advice though.
Try not to put the person on too much of a pedestal.
I'd say that you should ask them out sooner rather than later, seize the opportunity to ask them. It took me three weeks to ask a girl from my work out because I was waiting for a decent moment and I missed a few just due to nerves. She did say yes though. Do or do not, there is no try.
Truth, attraction typically has a shelf life, it varies based on the intensity of the feels, but there is a shelf life, if you strike too soon, then you might not have built up enough attraction, if you wait too long, they might get over it, try to figure out the goldilocks timeframe (varies) and make your moves then.
Yeah, I waited a few weeks before trying to ask out a girl and now I think she's dropped out of the class so kind of missed my shot. Oh well, I'm thinking of going to the gym that way I can improve myself psychically and psychologically and maybe meet some girls plus I have a new friend in
film class so maybe I can meet some girls through networking with him.
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chaos0xomega wrote: Truth, attraction typically has a shelf life, it varies based on the intensity of the feels, but there is a shelf life, if you strike too soon, then you might not have built up enough attraction, if you wait too long, they might get over it, try to figure out the goldilocks timeframe (varies) and make your moves then.
Yeah that's true, I think the cute girl in my econ class may have had a thing for me like through my peripherals I caught her a few times staring at me, does a bit of eye flirting when walking down the halls, when she's sitting in class would start spreading out her legs when I got near her, etc,
etc. Doesn't matter now though I don't see her anymore.
Aftershave wise: Joop or aramis.
Or, if you dont mind spending a bit more for special occasions, tom ford is great, just racks in at £320 a bottle for the decent ones.
Great points here anyway.
Get your life sorted out 1st.
The more stuff you have in your life the better as anything that does go wrong is no big deal.
As opposed to holding onto 1 thing, then if you lose it, you lose everything.
Im pretty lucky really that i do ground work for a living, so never had to really worry about going to the gym.
Ill only go there once or twice a week for boxing.
On another note, this might sounds weird, but thinking is pointless.
When you speak to friends, how often do you actually think about what you are about to say before you say it?
If your talking to a woman and stopping to think what to say, this just makes things worse.
Speaking your mind to some degree is always great as its actually portraying you, and what you are really like.
Dont lie.
Lying to make an excuse for something or cover something up is just dumb.
People see and hear alot, so is it worth making yourself look stupid infront of people?
Could also ruin something you have later on down the line.
Seems weird, but dont get into caring too much.
Best way to put yourself in the friendzone is if your always there for her/him and waiting hand and foot on them.
Granted you still need to care, just dont go OTT with it.
And as it keeps being posted, dont give a feth.
He who dares, wins.
Just reading through the thread and thought I'd drop in some advice. You guys do always seem to have the most pressure, so what I thought was that I'd drop in some advice for us girls, since some might be browsing this thread too, don't be afraid to ask the guy out on a date! There's a chance that some guys won't like this approach and would rather do it themselves, but you do have to remember that its a lot of unfair pressure on a guy to expect them to always ask you. So be confident and ask the guy out, you make it a bit easier for him and maybe even surprise them
Glaiceana wrote: Just reading through the thread and thought I'd drop in some advice. You guys do always seem to have the most pressure, so what I thought was that I'd drop in some advice for us girls, since some might be browsing this thread too, don't be afraid to ask the guy out on a date! There's a chance that some guys won't like this approach and would rather do it themselves, but you do have to remember that its a lot of unfair pressure on a guy to expect them to always ask you. So be confident and ask the guy out, you make it a bit easier for him and maybe even surprise them
Yeah, if you're just siting there hoping that a cute guy or girl is going to ask you out and you're not getting the results you want it's time to change your methods.
chaos0xomega wrote: Truth, attraction typically has a shelf life, it varies based on the intensity of the feels, but there is a shelf life, if you strike too soon, then you might not have built up enough attraction, if you wait too long, they might get over it, try to figure out the goldilocks timeframe (varies) and make your moves then.
IMO, always err on the side of "striking too soon." At least your intentions are clear. IME, women generally make up their minds pretty quickly about whether men are worth a date or are only friends material. Come at them too slowly and you're gonna find yourself stuck in the friends category. The "friendzone" only exists because guys put themselves there. If you're interested, show it. It's just being honest, right? And if they're not interested, move on just as fast.
Albatross wrote: Yeah, the importance of a decent anti-perspirant and cologne cannot be overstated. I wear Paul Smith for Men or YSL L'Homme (depending on the occasion) and they both go down well. If a woman actually TELLS you that you smell amazing (as opposed to just thinking it) it's a good start.
I never really got into wearing cologne - the smell kind of annoys me. I'd rather just smell like nothing
I'm not really into wearing cologne either, nor am I that into perfume on a woman. I don't have a good nose for scents...I can hardly tell the difference between one perfume and another once they're wearing it. But women sure *love* that gak. So it's usually a good call IME, as long as you get yourself a decent scent (no cheap stuff). And a bottle will last you forever.
Glaiceana wrote: Just reading through the thread and thought I'd drop in some advice. You guys do always seem to have the most pressure, so what I thought was that I'd drop in some advice for us girls, since some might be browsing this thread too, don't be afraid to ask the guy out on a date! There's a chance that some guys won't like this approach and would rather do it themselves, but you do have to remember that its a lot of unfair pressure on a guy to expect them to always ask you. So be confident and ask the guy out, you make it a bit easier for him and maybe even surprise them
Hey Glaiceana. You busy this weekend? Fancy getting together for a drink?
gorgon wrote: The "friendzone" only exists because guys put themselves there.
No, it doesn't exist at all. The "friendzone" is a concept invented by whiny entitled s who can't stand the fact that the woman they're interested in doesn't want to sleep with them.
Glaiceana wrote: Just reading through the thread and thought I'd drop in some advice. You guys do always seem to have the most pressure, so what I thought was that I'd drop in some advice for us girls, since some might be browsing this thread too, don't be afraid to ask the guy out on a date! There's a chance that some guys won't like this approach and would rather do it themselves, but you do have to remember that its a lot of unfair pressure on a guy to expect them to always ask you. So be confident and ask the guy out, you make it a bit easier for him and maybe even surprise them
Hey Glaiceana. You busy this weekend? Fancy getting together for a drink?
No, it doesn't exist at all. The "friendzone" is a concept invented by whiny entitled s who can't stand the fact that the woman they're interested in doesn't want to sleep with them.
I think people conflate the "friendzone" with "friendzone + whining." While whining often follows, it doesn't necessarily have to, it's not an inherent feature of the "friendzone."
The friendzone is simple, if you have two people, and one wants more and makes that known, and the other makes it known that they will never be more than friends, then they've been placed in the "friendzone."
The problem is that a lot of guys weren't in the friendship to be friends in the first place, they were there to "earn" sex. Then they lash out.
But being friendzoned doesn't necessarily have to end that way. I've asked out a lot of women and gotten a lot of "no, I just want to be friends," and instead of cutting that person off or getting angry at them I've actually stayed friends with them (novel concept, that). Some of them are among my best friends. You can be friendzoned, and not act like a total jerk about it, since the friendzone is just the situation where someone you like has made it clear they only want to be friends. The "can't stand the fact that the woman they're interested in doesn't want to sleep with them" part is separate, and only comes up if the person didn't value the friendship in the first place. If you do value that friendship, you can be friendzoned and take it gracefully and stay friends.
Glaiceana wrote: Just reading through the thread and thought I'd drop in some advice. You guys do always seem to have the most pressure, so what I thought was that I'd drop in some advice for us girls, since some might be browsing this thread too, don't be afraid to ask the guy out on a date! There's a chance that some guys won't like this approach and would rather do it themselves, but you do have to remember that its a lot of unfair pressure on a guy to expect them to always ask you. So be confident and ask the guy out, you make it a bit easier for him and maybe even surprise them
Hey Glaiceana. You busy this weekend? Fancy getting together for a drink?
Get in shape
Pick up some interesting hobbies* that make you go out and meet people
Treat the women you meet like any other human.
Ask out the women you find attractive. No coworkers, no subordinates.
There. Date get.
(READ: Nothing any of the forums on this site are made to discuss. Nothing a 14yr old boy would think was cool that isn't a team sport)
No, it doesn't exist at all. The "friendzone" is a concept invented by whiny entitled s who can't stand the fact that the woman they're interested in doesn't want to sleep with them.
I think people conflate the "friendzone" with "friendzone + whining." While whining often follows, it doesn't necessarily have to, it's not an inherent feature of the "friendzone."
The friendzone is simple, if you have two people, and one wants more and makes that known, and the other makes it known that they will never be more than friends, then they've been placed in the "friendzone."
The problem is that a lot of guys weren't in the friendship to be friends in the first place, they were there to "earn" sex. Then they lash out.
But being friendzoned doesn't necessarily have to end that way. I've asked out a lot of women and gotten a lot of "no, I just want to be friends," and instead of cutting that person off or getting angry at them I've actually stayed friends with them (novel concept, that). Some of them are among my best friends. You can be friendzoned, and not act like a total jerk about it, since the friendzone is just the situation where someone you like has made it clear they only want to be friends. The "can't stand the fact that the woman they're interested in doesn't want to sleep with them" part is separate, and only comes up if the person didn't value the friendship in the first place. If you do value that friendship, you can be friendzoned and take it gracefully and stay friends.
There is another school of thought that rejects the notion that men and women can be "just friends."
For women, this may not be true, but for many men this is true. Almost every woman I know with male friends...they all have a covert or overt sexual interest in her. To that point, I have no female "friends" that fall outside one of the following categories: Significant others of male friends, women I'm sleeping with (friends with "benefits"), and women with friends I want to sleep with. The rest are just acquaintances, to be honest with you.
Glaiceana wrote: Just reading through the thread and thought I'd drop in some advice. You guys do always seem to have the most pressure, so what I thought was that I'd drop in some advice for us girls, since some might be browsing this thread too, don't be afraid to ask the guy out on a date! There's a chance that some guys won't like this approach and would rather do it themselves, but you do have to remember that its a lot of unfair pressure on a guy to expect them to always ask you. So be confident and ask the guy out, you make it a bit easier for him and maybe even surprise them
Hey Glaiceana. You busy this weekend? Fancy getting together for a drink?
sebster wrote: To learn to just move on when a girl says no. It isn't ever easier, but it gets easier with age, and easier the more you try it.
In the same vein I'll say that getting your life in order absent the relationship is also important. If a girl turns me down I'll still be a healthy, successful man in his late 20's. This, of course, ties back into Albatross' point about confidence and will make you more attractive overall; regardless of sex and gender.
Isn't that a little harder for someone in there early to mid 20's (or younger) as they're often still going through school working a gakky part time job maybe still living with their parents (to save money) or living in dorm/apartment or would the standards be different for those demographics like
being in decent shape, a healthy social life, having a car, etc?
Glaiceana wrote: Just reading through the thread and thought I'd drop in some advice. You guys do always seem to have the most pressure, so what I thought was that I'd drop in some advice for us girls, since some might be browsing this thread too, don't be afraid to ask the guy out on a date! There's a chance that some guys won't like this approach and would rather do it themselves, but you do have to remember that its a lot of unfair pressure on a guy to expect them to always ask you. So be confident and ask the guy out, you make it a bit easier for him and maybe even surprise them
Hey Glaiceana. You busy this weekend? Fancy getting together for a drink?
See, it's not that difficult, guys!
There we go, example set everyone!
So what's your answer?
For the sake of this thread, sure
Stop making it look this simple! >.<
We need more excuses NOT to ask people, not reasons to do it!
Isn't that a little harder for someone in there early to mid 20's (or younger) as they're often still going through school working a gakky part time job maybe still living with their parents (to save money) or living in dorm/apartment or would the standards be different for those demographics like being decent, a healthy social life, having a car, etc?
Oh, definitely. First off, being more financially presentable definitely helps; sooner or later, the person you're with is going to come to understand your financial situation, and the better off you are, the more likely you are to not be rejected because of that. All things being equal, the wealthier you are, the better off you'll be.
It also messes with confidence too. If you're living with your parents it will likely impair your "hunting" because obviously no one wants to go back to their parents place. I'm in sort of a limbo-esque situation where I may have to move home in my final year of schooling. I might not have to, but not knowing if I'm going to be in an apartment of my own in 3 months does cause problems, especially if I'm stuck there for a full year. I agree that having that stability gives confidence, since it sort of affirms the idea that, indeed, your life has worth, versus having to sort of fake your worth with an almost certain falling out later.
There is another school of thought that rejects the notion that men and women can be "just friends."
For women, this may not be true, but for many men this is true. Almost every woman I know with male friends...they all have a covert or overt sexual interest in her. To that point, I have no female "friends" that fall outside one of the following categories: Significant others of male friends, women I'm sleeping with (friends with "benefits"), and women with friends I want to sleep with. The rest are just acquaintances, to be honest with you.
I think the idea that many guys can't be "just friends" has some weight, but I think it kind of depends on whether one believes one can still be friends while still being attracted to them.
Like, for example, with my friends who are girls who I have asked out and gotten nos from, if the opportunity presented itself, I'd certainly want to advance it beyond mere friendship, there's still attraction there, at least with some of them. That being said, I can live, associate, and do things with them as a friend, and am willing to not force the issue. And there are some girls I'm friends with who I'm not really attracted to that I hang out with a lot too. I consider them all friends, similar or same to many guy friends I have.
But, of course, how each person defines friend isn't necessarily the same.
I dunno, I think you can be friends with women as a man. Just because you think somebody is fethable doesn't mean they can't be your friend and sometimes you just think she's cool on her own merits besides having tits.
Because I feel like at every step during my education, I had to be given a second chance, or have pityed my way in, rather than actually just succeed at anything. Because it seems I can not just focus on work, and will always look for something else, anything really, to do instead, and that will just certainly create big problems for me in some close future. Because I can not even get a decent amount of sleep because no matter how many time I decide that I will impose on myself a rigorous sleep schedule, when it is time to sleep, I always have an irresistible urge to do something else, anything really, rather than sleeping. Because I have absolutely no willpower whatsoever, and my life is so much worse than what it could be (not that I am complaining about my life, I am way too lucky for it not to be obscene, but that will not make me to like myself). Because there is such a gap between what I want to do, and what I actually do.
Getting a girlfriend would just be icing on the cake !
You just described the life of literally almost everyone, more or less. To a certain extent.
No . I have eyes to see, and it is not like that for everyone, far from it.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: On a related note, GROOM. Shower regularly, brush your teeth twice a day, floss, wear good deodorant/cologne*, get a flattering haircut.
I really stepped up on my hygiene recently, basically going from one bath a week to one shower every morning. I also got some deodorant, but as I am one of those extremely annoying animal-rights guys, I buy mine from Fresh Body Shop, because they do not do tests on animals. I found one called Activist and I have no idea if it is a good one since I have an extremely weak sense of smell anyway.
chaos0xomega wrote: I know lots of girls that are into really really heavy/dark metal, rockabilly, bands I've never heard of, *insert arbitrary, random, and superfluous sub-genre here*, etc.
Psychobilly is not superfluous, it is awesome !
Except if you are speaking about sub-genre of psychobilly, in which case okay, having subsubsubgenres can be something a bit too much. But it seems to me it is really metal that is prone to subsubsubsubgenring.
By the way, what is very dark metal ? Black metal ? Sorry, TRVE KVLT EV1L BLACK METVL ? Or more like doom metal ?
Metal is quite mainstream anyway, nowadays .
chaos0xomega wrote: I found my experience with ROTC helped me out a lot in many, many ways (although in a sense it damaged me, because my tolerance for the level of bs in the civilian world has dropped through the floor, probably why I'm trying to get into OTS/OCS so badly lol).
TOTC ? OTS ? OCS ?
Anyway, the military made a hobo of John Rambo, what would it make of me ?
chaos0xomega wrote: Seriously though, military service in France is a good bit different than in the US, aside from the standard issue white flags (JOKING!!!), they tend to do the humanitarian/peacekeeping thing primarily (rather than being used as a warfighting/political instrument) more like the National Guard in the US
Well, those French soldiers in Afghanistan still got to exchange a few gunshot against those insurgents, did they not ? As for those sent in Mali certainly got to shoot a few Islamists too.
I guess I can ask my cousins in the legion about the French military operation, and how peaceful they are. Though of course, well, they are in the legion, so… not exactly the most peaceful part of the army (for those that do not know, the French foreign legion is basically a group of foreign totally not criminals recruited into an elite corp of the French army, often under a false identity. When they finish their service, or if they are grievously armed, they get a French citizenship. Until then, they live 100% with the other legionnaires, almost no contact with civilian word as far as I understood. They are the most likely to get the very dangerous missions, as far as I know. My cousins are not foreign not-criminals though, they are officers .)
chaos0xomega wrote: This is dangerous advice to give if the person receiving it has a different perspective on what it means to dress well and groom. What you're trying to tell them is to dress in a trendy and sophisticated manner, for example by wearing a grey tailored suit with brown leather wingtip shoes and matching brown belt, perhaps a pink button up beneath the jacket with the top two buttons undone to reveal a white crew neck underneath... what they *MIGHT* be hearing is "Oh, so I should put on my best black leather trenchcoat with my favorite black Megadeath t-shirt and the black pants with neon green accents I got at Hot Topic with the chains crossed behind the back and my studded arm bracelets, etc. etc.
I am pretty sure the second outfit would be better to flirt at a metal concert . I know Hot Topic, it is the place that turn kids into vampire in South Park. The goth kids burned it down. I like the goth kids. They listen to good music.
chaos0xomega wrote: Better, try suggesting that someone looking to improve their fashion sense and style pick up say... Mens Health, or perhaps check out askmen.com or similar sites online...
Uh, really ?
Chongara wrote: Treat the women you meet like any other human.
I do. End result : I do not get dates with any human .
Chongara wrote: Ask out the women you find attractive. No coworkers, no subordinates.
So it is not okay to ask my student out ? They are above the age of consent, and I only get to grade them in one subject, I can not make them to pass or double on my own !
(Kidding, of course. And anyway, even if I wanted to, this year, among those 36 students, got a grand total of zero girls. Ahhh, teaching computer engineering !)
Albatross wrote: Hey Glaiceana. You busy this weekend? Fancy getting together for a drink?
See, it's not that difficult, guys!
If you do get to travel to West Midlands today or tomorrow to actually meet her, that would much more convincing that if you do not .
Da Boss wrote: Yeah. "Guys can't be friends with girls" usually means the person in question spends too much time thinking with the downstairs brain.
That's a little bit harsh no? It's not an issue of wanting to bang every woman I associate with. It's more the issue that I've yet to meet a single woman worth the time investment of "just friends."
For the most part, my male friends are into male-oriented hobbies: shooting, hunting, working out, beer brewing, 40k, etc. If I met a woman who was into all that, then we could be friends. Snowball's chance in hell of that happening.
That's not to say that I don't share interests with women - TV, cooking, running, hiking, etc. But I can do all of that with my male friends too, plus we can talk about the things I actually enjoy doing as hobbies while we do them. On the other hand, if all I have in common with someone is TV, cooking, running, hiking, etc., they aren't really worth the time investment as a friend unless there are other things at play.
Case in point: last night actually lol. Met up with a female friend...we are JUST FRIENDS. Both have a little too much to drink, she comes over "because I need to try this wine!" and one episode of Archer later shenanigans are happening. Completely unintentional, never to be repeated, etc. but I've never gotten smashed with a buddy and made out with him
chaos0xomega wrote: This is dangerous advice to give if the person receiving it has a different perspective on what it means to dress well and groom. What you're trying to tell them is to dress in a trendy and sophisticated manner, for example by wearing a grey tailored suit with brown leather wingtip shoes and matching brown belt, perhaps a pink button up beneath the jacket with the top two buttons undone to reveal a white crew neck underneath... what they *MIGHT* be hearing is "Oh, so I should put on my best black leather trenchcoat with my favorite black Megadeath t-shirt and the black pants with neon green accents I got at Hot Topic with the chains crossed behind the back and my studded arm bracelets, etc. etc.
I am pretty sure the second outfit would be better to flirt at a metal concert . I know Hot Topic, it is the place that turn kids into vampire in South Park. The goth kids burned it down. I like the goth kids. They listen to good music.
chaos0xomega wrote: Better, try suggesting that someone looking to improve their fashion sense and style pick up say... Mens Health, or perhaps check out askmen.com or similar sites online...
Uh, really ?
I dunno, I've been to some metal concerts (not overwhelmingly heavy/dark gak though, Animals As Leaders last night as a matter of fact), and people wear pretty normal clothes for the most part... and definitely not hot topic style stuff lol. Granted the outfit I described is to pick up a 'normal' girl in mainstream society, I tend towards the rocker and artsy chicks (with the occasional rockabilly type) myself, but I know how to dress well enough that I can draw that kind of girl while still fitting in to a more mainstream crowd.
If you are trying to get the goth/metalhead type, you're on your own. Thats a subculture/counterculture I really can't wrap my head around (which is to say I've tried dating those kinds of girls before and have had absolutely no luck whatsoever).
Case in point: last night actually lol. Met up with a female friend...we are JUST FRIENDS. Both have a little too much to drink, she comes over "because I need to try this wine!" and one episode of Archer later shenanigans are happening. Completely unintentional, never to be repeated, etc. but I've never gotten smashed with a buddy and made out with him
Sounds like my kinda woman...
SO ANYWAY,
Alby/Glaiceana, how'd the date go? Inquiring minds want to know!
Cheesecat wrote: I'm pretty sure Glaiceana is a dude and as far as I'm aware Alby is straight.
Spoiler:
Based on the deviantART link in her signature, and the fact that the picture you linked is several years old, as well as the part where she said she was female, I'm fairly certain that she's not a dude.
Secondly. Before a date, or hell even an encounter with the opposite sex, talk to yourself out loud, and do a run down of what you should say or ask. That way you can actually hear what your answers and questions are, you'd be surprised at how cool or clever it sounds in your head, yet out loud sounds absolutely terrible.
That's also my secret for job interviews as well. I always nail em. Interviews and women but serious out loud..... you have to say it out loud.
EDIT - Ninja'd= Don't think so my man. Pretty convinced that she's a girl.
I heard something interesting today, was in class speaking to one of my mates from the course and she was talking about some weird guy she had met once.
To describe him she used the phrase "looks like on of those guys you get in that weird shop"... I knew instantly what shop she was talking about at this point "the one with War-something?". I responded "Do you mean Gamesworkshop down next to Central? I take it he looked unwashed?". A damning "Uh huh" was the response. She showed me his picture and he looked like a skinny, balding viking wearing a T-shirt a few sizes too big for him. "He's such a creep" was her description.
The initial revelation sent chills down my spine. Thankfully my dissimilarity to him made me feel better. It also made me think of this thread.
I don't think there has been a "what not to wear" part of the advice and I don't think it's needed, but there are some things that you let go off. Those baggy jeans and massive t-shirts and hoodies that you had in your Mosher phase... let them go. It is not a good look.
Medium of Death wrote: EDIT - Ninja'd= Don't think so my man. Pretty convinced that she's a girl.
I heard something interesting today, was in class speaking to one of my mates from the course and she was talking about some weird guy she had met once.
To describe him she used the phrase "looks like on of those guys you get in that weird shop"... I knew instantly what shop she was talking about at this point "the one with War-something?". I responded "Do you mean Gamesworkshop down next to Central? I take it he looked unwashed?". A damning "Uh huh" was the response. She showed me his picture and he looked like a skinny, balding viking wearing a T-shirt a few sizes too big for him. "He's such a creep" was her description.
The initial revelation sent chills down my spine. Thankfully my dissimilarity to him made me feel better. It also made me think of this thread.
I don't think there has been a "what not to wear" part of the advice and I don't think it's needed, but there are some things that you let go off. Those baggy jeans and massive t-shirts and hoodies that you had in your Mosher phase... let them go. It is not a good look.
Its one of those stereotype things though isn't it. If you were to explain wargaming and the typical age groups that participate it, people who do not know much about it will assume its full of "large sweaty men who are lonely and sad", which is just stupid.
Glaiceana wrote: I mean unless you were looking at my brother in that picture you linked xD Maybe my deviant Art profile pic is a little clearer.
Yeah, you look like a girl in your deviant art profile pic but you looked like a guy with long hair to me in the "Show Yourself" thread sorry for any offense.
Medium of Death wrote: EDIT - Ninja'd= Don't think so my man. Pretty convinced that she's a girl.
I heard something interesting today, was in class speaking to one of my mates from the course and she was talking about some weird guy she had met once.
To describe him she used the phrase "looks like on of those guys you get in that weird shop"... I knew instantly what shop she was talking about at this point "the one with War-something?". I responded "Do you mean Gamesworkshop down next to Central? I take it he looked unwashed?". A damning "Uh huh" was the response. She showed me his picture and he looked like a skinny, balding viking wearing a T-shirt a few sizes too big for him. "He's such a creep" was her description.
The initial revelation sent chills down my spine. Thankfully my dissimilarity to him made me feel better. It also made me think of this thread.
I don't think there has been a "what not to wear" part of the advice and I don't think it's needed, but there are some things that you let go off. Those baggy jeans and massive t-shirts and hoodies that you had in your Mosher phase... let them go. It is not a good look.
Its one of those stereotype things though isn't it. If you were to explain wargaming and the typical age groups that participate it, people who do not know much about it will assume its full of "large sweaty men who are lonely and sad", which is just stupid.
That's exactly how my family views it.
Luckily I have a figure that makes sticks jealous of how thin I am, and I regularly wash - it's just the 'lonely' and 'sad' bits that apply to me.
I would have assumed that Alby would have done some basic research before asking her out on a date... I think he's got it covered.
Anyway, I had a bit of an epiphany on the drive back from a concert at 1AM, I was listening to Mr. Jones by The Counting Crows and realized... I don't think I really want a girlfriend or a relationship or any of that gak... what I want is worship and adoration and the knowledge that I have that sort of power over someone else... hows that for fethed up?
chaos0xomega wrote: I would have assumed that Alby would have done some basic research before asking her out on a date... I think he's got it covered.
Anyway, I had a bit of an epiphany on the drive back from a concert at 1AM, I was listening to Mr. Jones by The Counting Crows and realized... I don't think I really want a girlfriend or a relationship or any of that gak... what I want is worship and adoration and the knowledge that I have that sort of power over someone else... hows that for fethed up?
Nope, not at all, been there, done that, definitely not my scene.
Its funny too... my usual feelings towards submissives in that scene is that they are weak-minded individuals and sad excuses for human beings, it's not only a turnoff but i'm outright disgusted by it, but thats a different topic.
Funny without "catering", I like the making fun of a person without doing it too much, draws them in pretty quick with an occasional backhanded compliment.
Talk to them from the side, turning to fully face them conveys being needy.
Hit on the second best looking girl if in a group: Drives the pretty one crazy and makes the runner up happy to no end (think I saw this in a movie once but still works... strange).
Yes confidence works, yes take up space and do those power stances everyone talks about, slouching gets you nowhere.
Asking out on a date needs to be casual.
I was surprised when asking out to dinner and a movie (gah! very traditional...) I added "Since I asked, I have to buy.", Oddly that took the pressure off for those who do not like feeling "obligated".
Smell:
Spoiler:
Clean: some say baby powder makes them crazy, jury is still out on this one.
Avoid the floral whatever your mom would buy.
Look for stuff from about her age plus 10 years ago, for some sick reason girls seem to like guys smelling like their dad...
Brush your teeth and scrape your tongue, yelling over the loud music tends to give them a full dose of your breath...
Look:
Spoiler:
Use freaking hair product and again avoid smelly stuff, get your hair how you want it and get it to stay there.
Hate to say, the clean shaven look is still preferred, they imagine the stubble giving beard burn and find facial hair "intimidating". Buddy of mine does have a big moustache but is tall and looks like a plainclothes cop but his teeth are straight and white and when he smiles the women flock = bad boy look but gives safe vibes.
Whatever you wear make sure it all works together and it fits properly. The women want to know what your backside looks like and baggy does not work. "Well dressed" works almost as well as "expensive".
Go see some tailor and let them have a go at figuring out something for you: they know how to make you look two sizes smaller or bigger depending on your needs.
Extra stuff:
Spoiler:
Have something, anything that makes you different than the rest of the crowd of guys around. Accents was a good point, big hair, funky shirt you cannot find anywhere, a pin on your jacket... something that they can look at and ask about or comment on. Makes a great opener and the conversation is easy.
Get to know the staff at the places you are at or the places you take her: people greeting you by name makes you socially important and shows you are a "great guy" since other people seem to think so. You can always go there a day or two before and tip heavily and talk to them for a bit.
Find the easiest way possible to get your contact information to the person. Get bump or whatever installed on your smartphone or something easy, or use a good old card with some trumped-up reason to have one. Good excuse to have something to write on for her number (or yes, enter in the smart phone... seems too slow to me...).
The real trick is to talk about yourself enough for interest yet ask as well to show interest, fun balancing act. If anything negative is said or some blunt statement, shrug your shoulders and treat it like water off a duck's back: it is a bit of a test, you do not need her approval, you are confident in yourself.
Its one of those stereotype things though isn't it. If you were to explain wargaming and the typical age groups that participate it, people who do not know much about it will assume its full of "large sweaty men who are lonely and sad", which is just stupid.
The lonely and sad parts weren't really what she was judging him on though. I can be a bit of a morose witch at times, but it was really the looks and the dress sense that specifically gave the game away.
I mean just to suck up Albatross' arse for a moment, in the "show yourself" thread he's the prime example of somebody who does not fit that description.
Hit on the second best looking girl if in a group: Drives the pretty one crazy and makes the runner up happy to no end (think I saw this in a movie once but still works... strange).
Problem with that is perspective. My friends and I always have disagreement over who is the most attractive in any group, I know some of my female friends disagree on who is more attractive amongst them, etc. so thats an invalid tactic/point
Hate to say, the clean shaven look is still preferred, they imagine the stubble giving beard burn and find facial hair "intimidating". Buddy of mine does have a big moustache but is tall and looks like a plainclothes cop but his teeth are straight and white and when he smiles the women flock = bad boy look but gives safe vibes.
Huh, this is completely contrary to my experience...
Have something, anything that makes you different than the rest of the crowd of guys around. Accents was a good point, big hair, funky shirt you cannot find anywhere, a pin on your jacket... something that they can look at and ask about or comment on. Makes a great opener and the conversation is easy.
aka 'peacocking'
Get to know the staff at the places you are at or the places you take her: people greeting you by name makes you socially important and shows you are a "great guy" since other people seem to think so. You can always go there a day or two before and tip heavily and talk to them for a bit.
Eh, that hasn't got me very far (though I do get tons of free drinks )
Find the easiest way possible to get your contact information to the person. Get bump or whatever installed on your smartphone or something easy, or use a good old card with some trumped-up reason to have one. Good excuse to have something to write on for her number (or yes, enter in the smart phone... seems too slow to me...).
A friend of mine does the 'calling card' technique, its old school and super-corny but it seems to work for him. Its just a little card with his name, phone number, and 'person of interest' written on it and some artwork.
Because it makes you more confident, lowers your standards, allows you to sing karaoke and dance in public, approach potential partners fearlessly, all with few negative side effects!*
*side effects may include nausea, diarrhea, shame, minor/major injuries, jail time, the clap, stories you will never live down and/or death
You could always try other mind altering substances. Then again it's probably better to try and act relatively normally or relaxed. Drinking excessively is a bad move as it can go either way and from my experience, usually horribly wrong.
Because it makes you more confident, lowers your standards, allows you to sing karaoke and dance in public, approach potential partners fearlessly, all with few negative side effects!*
*side effects may include nausea, diarrhea, shame, minor/major injuries, jail time, the clap, stories you will never live down and/or death
Highlighted the relevant parts...
You could always try other mind altering substances. Then again it's probably better to try and act relatively normally or relaxed. Drinking excessively is a bad move as it can go either way and from my experience, usually horribly wrong.
Trust me, the kinds of girls you meet while on mind-altering substances usually arent the kinds that you want anything more than one night with.... if that much.
On a serious note for alcohol, in moderation can help a lot of people relax and come out of their shells a little. Commonly known as social lubrication.
Just focus on getting the date, don't concern yourself with her being girlfriend material or soul mate etc that puts up mental barriers and allows you to disqualify perfectly good prospects because you create a standard in your mind. Until you have an nice in depth conversation you won't know the first thing about that person, sometimes people that you'd never assume would be dateworthy turn out to be pretty cool and have a lot of common interests. Other people you think you know everything about turn out to be very different people then you ever expected. Infatuation tends to let us see what we want to see in somebody and it rarely has anything to do with who those people actually are.
In a worst case scenario you end up spending an evening out with somebody that it doesn't click with, but even a bad date is usually better then sitting at home alone.
The more women you are around the more practice you get at holding a decent conversation which gets you more respect with the next one. Dating is largely a matter of fishing around until you find one that you pair well with, that means you have to play the numbers game and will end up with a lot of no responses and bad dates, but sooner or later you find the correct person for you.
Don't worry about you body, ever notice how many women are married to heavy set guys? Women want a guy with personality and a sense of humor far more then just a body. While everybody appreciates a hot body women get turned on most by the mind and having good conversation. If you are insecure about your body or your job or whatever else they pick up on it, they aren't rejecting you because of those things but rather because they read your own lack of confidence in those things.
You can have a terrible job but love what you do and are passionate about it women will respect that. It doesn't matter if you shovel horse poop for a living, they want somebody upbeat and secure in themself. I know lots of guys who are deadbeats as far as their career but they project a positive outlook and enjoy what they do and they have no problem getting women because they respond to the those men being secure in what they do and enjoy.
Don't ask "what can I do to get women to like me", first figure out what you need to do to make yourself happy and how to like yourself. When you are happy with where you are in life that projects a positive vibe that in turn will attract women.
chaos0xomega wrote: I dunno, I've been to some metal concerts (not overwhelmingly heavy/dark gak though, Animals As Leaders last night as a matter of fact), and people wear pretty normal clothes for the most part...
I have been to a few, and they were not . Mostly black clothes, very few colors, for instance.
Again, everything I know about Hot Topic, I know from South Park. We do not have those shops in France.
chaos0xomega wrote: If you are trying to get the goth/metalhead type, you're on your own.
Goth is going to be pretty different from metalhead. Like, really.
Musically, and I guess culturally too.
I like both music style, though. Goth is much more confidential, and most metalheads have no idea what real goth is like, they confuse it with some metal subgenre.
Different looks too :
vs
or
I will let you guess which picture is for which music . Hint : goth comes from punk, metal does not.
Glaiceana wrote: Maybe my deviant Art profile pic is a little clearer.
I went to look. That xenomorph drawing is very good !
Punks, goths, metalheads, emos, crusties, etc seem to borrow styles from each other making it hard to distinguish them from each other.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I you don't like the taste of alcohol go for rum and coke or White Russians. Or keep drinking until it starts to taste good.
Cheesecat wrote: Or keep drinking until it starts to taste good.
Did you miss my following sentence ?
Though since for some reason, the owner of the pizzeria next to the LGS where I go to play Warmachine offers me a glass of kir every time I go there, so I am slowly getting used to it.
Cheesecat wrote: Why wouldn't you want to drink everything becomes funny and happier when you're drunk.
It turns all your bad feelings into good feelings! See also... actually, no. There are under-18s present. I do not advocate drug use in anyone under the age of majority.
Plenty of great advice in this thread, which is awesome. 'E Pluribus Unum' and all that. On the alcohol topic - yes, it can be useful in that it lowers the inhibitions of both parties. You can both relax and express how you 'really' feel about each other, which is always useful. It can also be a bit of a double-edged sword. Here's an example:
So, the other week I was out at a staff party, free bar, good times. There's this girl at work I've been trying to get with, sort of a long-term goal, if you will. She's awesome - beautiful, smart, really funny... Girlfriend material in other words. We spent most of the night together, flirting, laughing and drinking. Hard. Anyway, one thing leads to another and we end up kissing. She's like, all over me, pulling at my shirt, biting my face, then all of a sudden she ups and walks outside. She's standing there on her own, sort of swaying, and I realise she's absolutely hammered. I follow her outside and do the gentlemanly thing, offering to see her home safely. I'm walking her home and she's still grabbing me and kissing me, then she whispers into my ear 'you can stay over if you want..'
Great, right? Wrong.
It is not cool to sleep with a girl in that condition. She's in no state to give any sort of informed consent, and anyway, I only sleep with girls if they are sober enough to enjoy it. It's a rule I have, and I never break it. I may be a total fething streetwolf, but I am not an actual predator. Anyway, I politely refuse, saying 'I'm flattered, but you're drunk. I'll get you home safe and we'll pick this up later, OK?' Lo and behold, when I text her the next day to see how she's feeling (because I'm nice like that) she has no memory of getting home at all. Totally the right call on my part. If I'd slept with her, I would probably have blown any chance of getting with her in the future. At least this way she knows I'm a decent guy who can be trusted, and who isn't after only one thing. At least, not with her.
Just my 2p on the whole booze issue. Something to think about. Part II coming soon.
I was just talking about my experience with booze which tend to be fun, enjoyable experiences which I don't think is unusual (except for the occasional hangover or puking) but obliviously it can have negative consequences on people psychologically, emotionally, health-wise, etc if not
not done responsibly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've never been an angry or sad drunk I just become silly and stupid.
Alby/Glaiceana, how'd the date go? Inquiring minds want to know!
Ha, no date, sadly. She lives in the West Midlands and is (as far as I can tell) at least 10 years my junior. I was making the point that it's not difficult to ask a lady out, even an attractive one like our very own Glaiceana.
FUNFACT: I was expecting her to say 'no', so I could go 'See, I got shot down! It's not so bad!' Just goes to show... You never know. That girl? She might just surprise you and say 'yes'. Think about how fething awesome that would feel. That's your motivation. In fact, feth it, I'm setting some homework, Project Mayhem style.
Project Babe-hem: (OK, the name needs some work )
Homework: Your task is to apply the advice contained within this thread so far, and ask a girl out tomorrow. That's it, just ask her out. Use it as a learning experience. Even if she says 'no', it'll be useful because you'll see that nothing particularly bad happens. The ground doesn't open up, people don't point and laugh (unless you're in high school and you ask in front of the whole class), she just says 'no'. Big fething deal. Get used to the feeling and learn not to give a gak.
Pro-tip: Ask a girl you're not actually attracted to. That way, you won't care about the outcome.
And remember - where you go, Dakka goes. We're rooting for you!
Not soon, but I am planning on trying to release something at some point. It's sort of stuck at the demo stage really, while I'm on my vision quest. Of ass.
I mean just to suck up Albatross' arse for a moment, in the "show yourself" thread he's the prime example of somebody who does not fit that description.
Aww, thanks bro!
Yeah, most people are surprised to learn that I'm into nightmare battles in the 41st Milliennium, but I make absolutely zero apologies for it, and have never tried to hide it. It's not the game, guys. It's the gamers. Far too many of us are unwashed social retards with appalling dress sense, which prevents those of us who aren't from 'coming out', for fear of guilt by association. We don't have to be like that, though. There is no gamer 'uniform'. Even if you're into extreme metal, you can still look cool. I like metal, but that doesn't mean I have to wear awful jeans and an oversized band t-shirt. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just narrows your potential pool of love-interests to girls who pretty much dress the same. Which seems self-defeating.
The thing with drinking is that some people NEED it to have fun, which is bad. I'm not a big drinker at all and have never been drunk, but it's never stopped me having fun and enjoying life!
Alby, that's a good post, have an exalt, and thanks for the compliment!
In which case I'd advise you to look around for new bars, I find that my favourite bars in my university town are the ones that the students often ignore because they aren't in the middle of town or because they don't play any music.
Always be careful about accidentally walking into a nationalist pub though.
Sex is usually better when slightly drunk in my experience also. Of course it can be all too easy to cross the line into whiskey -er... dong territory. But a healthy buzz lowers any remaining insecurities just enough to really go at it in new ways... just sayin..
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should amend this to say that it goes for first few times encounters. When I'm with an actual partner that I care for, most of the time I want to be sober. ymmv.
Corpsesarefun wrote: In which case I'd advise you to look around for new bars, I find that my favourite bars in my university town are the ones that the students often ignore because they aren't in the middle of town or because they don't play any music.
Always be careful about accidentally walking into a nationalist pub though.
Short of the country bars and the land of lonely, middle-aged women (not the good looking kind), I've been everywhere.
If there's one thing I've learned in my time, unless you're pouring it yourself, it's either beer or straight liquor. Unless it's wine night.
Albatross wrote: It turns all your bad feelings into good feelings!
Not for everyone. I know people react quite differently to alcohol. I spend one year in the same classes as one guy who was, like, almost always at least slightly inebriated, and he was such a nice, fun and amiable fellow. One friend of mine becomes extremely irritating and annoying when drunk. Some people become violent. Other become sad (or, I do not know, maybe they are always sad but just show it when drunk ?).
Albatross wrote: I follow her outside and do the gentlemanly thing, offering to see her home safely. I'm walking her home and she's still grabbing me and kissing me, then she whispers into my ear 'you can stay over if you want..'
[…]
Anyway, I politely refuse, saying 'I'm flattered, but you're drunk. I'll get you home safe and we'll pick this up later, OK?' Lo and behold, when I text her the next day to see how she's feeling (because I'm nice like that) she has no memory of getting home at all.
You were not that drunk yourself, were you ? Clearly you remember what happened, and it seems you were still able to make the right decision.
Here, your colleague have done something she may have regrets about when sober. And it is actually far from the worse decision she could have made while drunk. That is why I do not want to get drunk.
I do not think I would be good at doing it only responsibly, so not doing it at all, or almost not, is the way to go for me, I think.
Clearly, better less than enough than too much, in this case.
Albatross wrote: FUNFACT: I was expecting her to say 'no', so I could go 'See, I got shot down! It's not so bad!' Just goes to show... You never know. That girl? She might just surprise you and say 'yes'. Think about how fething awesome that would feel. That's your motivation. In fact, feth it, I'm setting some homework, Project Mayhem style.
Project Babe-hem: (OK, the name needs some work )
Homework: Your task is to apply the advice contained within this thread so far, and ask a girl out tomorrow. That's it, just ask her out. Use it as a learning experience. Even if she says 'no', it'll be useful because you'll see that nothing particularly bad happens. The ground doesn't open up, people don't point and laugh (unless you're in high school and you ask in front of the whole class), she just says 'no'. Big fething deal. Get used to the feeling and learn not to give a gak.
See, the thing is that it is not just about how we (those who ask) feel about this. It is also about how the one we ask out feel about it. It seems it did not annoy Glaiceana, which is not surprising given it was only a joke proposal over the internet. Might not be the same with a different guy asking out a different girl in a completely different setting.
That is where self-worth plays a big role. If you do not have any, you will even feel like you are doing the girl/guy a disservice by asking out.
Albatross wrote: It turns all your bad feelings into good feelings!
Not for everyone. I know people react quite differently to alcohol. I spend one year in the same classes as one guy who was, like, almost always at least slightly inebriated, and he was such a nice, fun and amiable fellow. One friend of mine becomes extremely irritating and annoying when drunk. Some people become violent. Other become sad (or, I do not know, maybe they are always sad but just show it when drunk ?).
I believe he was being sarcastic. (Sauce: The very next sentence - like, right next to the one you quoted.)
Albatross wrote: I follow her outside and do the gentlemanly thing, offering to see her home safely. I'm walking her home and she's still grabbing me and kissing me, then she whispers into my ear 'you can stay over if you want..'
[…]
Anyway, I politely refuse, saying 'I'm flattered, but you're drunk. I'll get you home safe and we'll pick this up later, OK?' Lo and behold, when I text her the next day to see how she's feeling (because I'm nice like that) she has no memory of getting home at all.
You were not that drunk yourself, were you ? Clearly you remember what happened, and it seems you were still able to make the right decision.
Here, your colleague have done something she may have regrets about when sober. And it is actually far from the worse decision she could have made while drunk. That is why I do not want to get drunk.
I was totally smashed. I just handle it better than most people, being a fairly hardened drinker, and it's something of a curse that I almost always remember everything that happens when I'm drunk. I'm not really sure what you're driving at, here...
I do not think I would be good at doing it only responsibly, so not doing it at all, or almost not, is the way to go for me, I think.
Clearly, better less than enough than too much, in this case.
Why? What's so wrong with making a few bad decisions? Waking up with a few hangovers? I think your trepidation comes from the fact that you didn't get a lot of drunken shenanigans out of the way when you were much younger. As an adult, I know my limits and can drink just enough to have a good time, depending on the context, but that's only because I've fethed up a lot as a younger man.
Albatross wrote: FUNFACT: I was expecting her to say 'no', so I could go 'See, I got shot down! It's not so bad!' Just goes to show... You never know. That girl? She might just surprise you and say 'yes'. Think about how fething awesome that would feel. That's your motivation. In fact, feth it, I'm setting some homework, Project Mayhem style.
Project Babe-hem: (OK, the name needs some work )
Homework: Your task is to apply the advice contained within this thread so far, and ask a girl out tomorrow. That's it, just ask her out. Use it as a learning experience. Even if she says 'no', it'll be useful because you'll see that nothing particularly bad happens. The ground doesn't open up, people don't point and laugh (unless you're in high school and you ask in front of the whole class), she just says 'no'. Big fething deal. Get used to the feeling and learn not to give a gak.
See, the thing is that it is not just about how we (those who ask) feel about this. It is also about how the one we ask out feel about it. It seems it did not annoy Glaiceana, which is not surprising given it was only a joke proposal over the internet. Might not be the same with a different guy asking out a different girl in a completely different setting.
That is where self-worth plays a big role. If you do not have any, you will even feel like you are doing the girl/guy a disservice by asking out.
That's why you need to develop a winning mentality. I mean, listen to yourself! You don't exactly come across all 'rainbows and sunshine'. The point of my task was to use it as a learning experience so that you get some of these - and please don't be offended - stupid fething ideas out of your head. A girl's going to be offended or annoyed if you ask her out?
Merde.
And it wasn't a joke 'proposal'. If she's ever in Manchester, it would be my pleasure to take her out for a drink. I walk it like I talk it, because I am confident. Not because I think I'm better than anyone, because I genuinely don't think like that. I am the way I am because I'm not paralysed by fear and self-loathing, and that's where you need to get to. I'm sure you have a lot to offer the right girl, you just need to recognise it in yourself. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy if you don't. If you don't rate yourself, why should anyone else?
Yeah, it's the combination of self-loathing and datelessness that creates the vicious circle. It builds a simple request for a cup of coffee into some kind of marriage proposal.
And I think it feeds the pedestal-placing behavior you sometimes see among dateless geeks. The logic is that a date with me would be horrible, so it's insulting to even suggest it to anyone. Therefore, I'll be gallant by sparing the fair lady from a date with a troll like me. Perhaps I'll try to become platonic friends with her. Maybe that way she'll eventually notice me for the gallant fellow I am underneath and look past my trollish exterior. Beauty and the Beast!
It's all nonsense. If you want to be "rescued," you have to rescue yourself.
gorgon wrote: Yeah, it's the combination of self-loathing and datelessness that creates the vicious circle. It builds a simple request for a cup of coffee into some kind of marriage proposal.
And I think it feeds the pedestal-placing behavior you sometimes see among dateless geeks. The logic is that a date with me would be horrible, so it's insulting to even suggest it to anyone. Therefore, I'll be gallant by sparing the fair lady from a date with a troll like me. Perhaps I'll try to become platonic friends with her. Maybe that way she'll eventually notice me for the gallant fellow I am underneath and look past my trollish exterior. Beauty and the Beast!
It's all nonsense. If you want to be "rescued," you have to rescue yourself.
Word. Girls are just girls, dudes are just dudes. 'Twas ever thus.
The advice on alcohol here is a little immature guys. If someone doesn't want to drink that's up to them.
Never understood why people rarely have to explain why they drink, but almost always have to explain why they DON'T drink.
Still, good thread so far. Interesting reading.
HSOO: I have some sympathy for you, French girls can be a little intimidating sometimes! Same with upper class English girls, would never be sure how to talk to them. Still, you've got to give it a go. It will be way less awful than you imagine even in the worst case scenario.
Albatross wrote: I'm not really sure what you're driving at, here...
That I could totally make very bad decisions if I was drinking.
Albatross wrote: I think your trepidation comes from the fact that you didn't get a lot of drunken shenanigans out of the way when you were much younger.
Yes. But I did not get any for the same reason I do not get any now. Nobody has forbidden me to drink alcohol or anything.
Albatross wrote: That's why you need to develop a winning mentality.
Yes, I need to.
gorgon wrote: And I think it feeds the pedestal-placing behavior you sometimes see among dateless geeks. The logic is that a date with me would be horrible, so it's insulting to even suggest it to anyone. Therefore, I'll be gallant by sparing the fair lady from a date with a troll like me. Perhaps I'll try to become platonic friends with her. Maybe that way she'll eventually notice me for the gallant fellow I am underneath and look past my trollish exterior.
Did you read my subconscious ?
That is quite spot on.
Da Boss wrote: HSOO: I have some sympathy for you, French girls can be a little intimidating sometimes!
I did only very marginally better with Korean girls and Iranian girls yet.
I you don't like the taste of alcohol go for rum and coke or White Russians. Or keep drinking until it starts to taste good.
This could be potentially bad advice for your wallet. A lot of bars/clubs will make them pretty weak in order to save on alcohol costs.
If you don't like drinking, honestly, don't try to force it. If you can find something you like, great, if not, it's not worth the money.
You can go get your booze at a liquor store it's cheaper that way and you know exactly what you're getting. Mind you if I'm going out to a pub to drink I'm going to "The Noble Pig" (or Carlo's if I want to stay later) it's got good food and the house beers are tasty.
Albatross wrote: It turns all your bad feelings into good feelings!
Not for everyone. I know people react quite differently to alcohol. I spend one year in the same classes as one guy who was, like, almost always at least slightly inebriated, and he was such a nice, fun and amiable fellow. One friend of mine becomes extremely irritating and annoying when drunk. Some people become violent. Other become sad (or, I do not know, maybe they are always sad but just show it when drunk ?).
I don't think that it is uncommon for sober people to find drunks annoying.
I am not.
Especially in France .
26 indeed.
Why do my post make me seem younger ?
It's probably because english isn't your first language, your grammar (which is very very good mind you) is very proper, etc. As a native english speaker reading your posts, you can tell that something is 'off' but its hard to place what it is (without being able to hear the accent)
So, the other week I was out at a staff party, free bar, good times. There's this girl at work I've been trying to get with, sort of a long-term goal, if you will. She's awesome - beautiful, smart, really funny... Girlfriend material in other words. We spent most of the night together, flirting, laughing and drinking. Hard. Anyway, one thing leads to another and we end up kissing. She's like, all over me, pulling at my shirt, biting my face, then all of a sudden she ups and walks outside. She's standing there on her own, sort of swaying, and I realise she's absolutely hammered. I follow her outside and do the gentlemanly thing, offering to see her home safely. I'm walking her home and she's still grabbing me and kissing me, then she whispers into my ear 'you can stay over if you want..'
Great, right? Wrong.
AGREED! Good for you Albatross, +100 respect and an exalt.
It is not cool to sleep with a girl in that condition. She's in no state to give any sort of informed consent, and anyway, I only sleep with girls if they are sober enough to enjoy it. It's a rule I have, and I never break it. I may be a total fething streetwolf, but I am not an actual predator. Anyway, I politely refuse, saying 'I'm flattered, but you're drunk. I'll get you home safe and we'll pick this up later, OK?' Lo and behold, when I text her the next day to see how she's feeling (because I'm nice like that) she has no memory of getting home at all. Totally the right call on my part. If I'd slept with her, I would probably have blown any chance of getting with her in the future. At least this way she knows I'm a decent guy who can be trusted, and who isn't after only one thing. At least, not with her.
And I hope it works out for you! I've been in the same situation (as have my friends), never seems to work out for us... in one friends case it turned otu she was just sober enough to recall what had happened, and she got pissed at him for not getting in bed with her and they haven't spoken in the 3 years since... granted it was a bit more complicated, but still...
On the plus side, one would think that its a pretty good indicator that you have a good shot with her. They say women decide within a few minutes of meeting you whether or not they would date you, if she was like that while she was tipsy, it probably means that you haven't been disqualified (yet).
Ha, no date, sadly. She lives in the West Midlands and is (as far as I can tell) at least 10 years my junior. I was making the point that it's not difficult to ask a lady out, even an attractive one like our very own Glaiceana.
The "rule" in the US is half your age plus 7 years... I.E. - the youngest you can go is 1/2 of your current age, plus 7 years, so as a 24 year old, it is acceptable for me to date down to 19 and no younger... no idea how old she is, but I think you'd have to be pretty fething old for her to be too young for you
Homework: Your task is to apply the advice contained within this thread so far, and ask a girl out tomorrow. That's it, just ask her out. Use it as a learning experience. Even if she says 'no', it'll be useful because you'll see that nothing particularly bad happens. The ground doesn't open up, people don't point and laugh (unless you're in high school and you ask in front of the whole class), she just says 'no'. Big fething deal. Get used to the feeling and learn not to give a gak.
Pro-tip: Ask a girl you're not actually attracted to. That way, you won't care about the outcome.
If I meet a single lady in the next 24 hours, I will.
Far too many of us are unwashed social retards with appalling dress sense, which prevents those of us who aren't from 'coming out', for fear of guilt by association. We don't have to be like that, though. There is no gamer 'uniform'. Even if you're into extreme metal, you can still look cool. I like metal, but that doesn't mean I have to wear awful jeans and an oversized band t-shirt. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just narrows your potential pool of love-interests to girls who pretty much dress the same. Which seems self-defeating.
Agreed... I think we need another thread to discuss this actually... I sometimes feel like a dirty elitist bastard for my attitude towards other gamers in public, etc. but honestly, I don't want to be seen with people like that for that reason.
I thought it was to let her club you and bring you to her cave.
Or maybe I am thinking of Australian dates.
Anyway. IN all seriousness it is all about showing off who you are as a person. If you are confident about yourself, people will like you and will be attracted to you more. But maybe that only happens with me.
Da Boss wrote: Never understood why people rarely have to explain why they drink, but almost always have to explain why they DON'T drink.
I found it was more or less like this:
1) Offer them a drink. If they drink, skip to step 3), if they do not drink, go to step 2)
2) Ignore them; re-offer drink. Repeat until they accept drink. Once accepted, proceed to step 3).
3) Be happy in the knowledge that you've improved someone's life a little by giving them alcohol.
Even with family at birthdays and things, the phrases "oh go on" and "it's just a little" are repeated ad nauseam until you either cave in, or give them a reason they think is good enough. For the record, "my antidepressants say I shouldn't drink alcohol" apparently isn't a good enough reason for turning down a small glass of something.
gorgon wrote: Yeah, it's the combination of self-loathing and datelessness that creates the vicious circle. It builds a simple request for a cup of coffee into some kind of marriage proposal.
And I think it feeds the pedestal-placing behavior you sometimes see among dateless geeks. The logic is that a date with me would be horrible, so it's insulting to even suggest it to anyone. Therefore, I'll be gallant by sparing the fair lady from a date with a troll like me. Perhaps I'll try to become platonic friends with her. Maybe that way she'll eventually notice me for the gallant fellow I am underneath and look past my trollish exterior. Beauty and the Beast!
It's all nonsense. If you want to be "rescued," you have to rescue yourself.
Word. Girls are just girls, dudes are just dudes. 'Twas ever thus.
The self loathing thing I totally get. If you don't like yourself how can you expect people to like you? I guess this applies even beyond the scope of dating.
I've been trying to improve myself recently, physically with the hope it knocks on mentally, and it is difficult but I'm trying hard to stick with it. I've let myself get into a bit of a rut over the last few years and it has taken me a long time to realise it.
I've really enjoyed starting some kind of exercise routine. It does make you feel better, even if you're a toneless wonder like me. Progress nonetheless!
chaos0xomega wrote: It's probably because english isn't your first language, your grammar (which is very very good mind you) is very proper, etc. As a native english speaker reading your posts, you can tell that something is 'off' but its hard to place what it is (without being able to hear the accent)
Oh, I see. I have an explanation for at least part of that. I am writing (scientific) articles in English for my PhD, and my tutor repeatedly pointed to me that I did use informal, verbal constructions like “it's” instead of “it is”, or “let's” instead of “let us”. So, I decided to just stop using those altogether, else I would certainly continue to use them in my articles.
Ha, no date, sadly. She lives in the West Midlands and is (as far as I can tell) at least 10 years my junior. I was making the point that it's not difficult to ask a lady out, even an attractive one like our very own Glaiceana.
The "rule" in the US is half your age plus 7 years... I.E. - the youngest you can go is 1/2 of your current age, plus 7 years, so as a 24 year old, it is acceptable for me to date down to 19 and no younger... no idea how old she is, but I think you'd have to be pretty fething old for her to be too young for you
I'm 22 actually But yeah I'm going to bring up my earlier point here with regards to drinking, you should not have to do it to have a good time!
And as for the self loathing thing, that is often a pretty serious thing, its something you should definitely work on, I've seen it effect guys even attempting to ask girls out. They often have this preconception that they cannot compete with other guys.
Da Boss wrote: The advice on alcohol here is a little immature guys. If someone doesn't want to drink that's up to them.
It's all well and good to say that but on the internet the majority of people who say "I don't drink because I'm scared I'll lose control" tend to be very inexperienced with alcohol or recovering alcoholics, in this situation I assumed the former to be true. Those who only have the a drink once in a blue moon or disagree with drinking on moral grounds tend to give other reasons. For example my friend and dakka user Avatar720 doesn't drink other than the occasional soft cider, I don't see this as a sign of inexperience as I know why he does so.
I agree that you should not have to drink to have a good time but it's hardly a monster that controls your actions from the moment you first take a sip.
So, the other week I was out at a staff party, free bar, good times. There's this girl at work I've been trying to get with, sort of a long-term goal, if you will. She's awesome - beautiful, smart, really funny... Girlfriend material in other words. We spent most of the night together, flirting, laughing and drinking. Hard. Anyway, one thing leads to another and we end up kissing. She's like, all over me, pulling at my shirt, biting my face, then all of a sudden she ups and walks outside. She's standing there on her own, sort of swaying, and I realise she's absolutely hammered. I follow her outside and do the gentlemanly thing, offering to see her home safely. I'm walking her home and she's still grabbing me and kissing me, then she whispers into my ear 'you can stay over if you want..'
Great, right? Wrong.
You're a pretty decent fellow. I have a great deal of respect for how you handled that situation.
Different people experience alcohol in different ways. I mean, I drink, but my Dad's side of the family has 4 alcoholics on it, and I am wary about drinking due to that.
If someone doesn't want to drink, you don't need to evangelise at them about the benefits of drinking, it's usually the case that people are smart enough to see the benefits and drawbacks themselves and choose for themselves. It's the lack of respect inherent in assuming someone must be "inexperienced" or immature because they don't drink that gets to me.
I remember when I started drinking and how great it was to have this thing that I now shared with the majority of other adults, that was like instant conversation fodder and a very good "I belong here too!" marker. I'm sure I was a condescending ass to someone who didn't drink at the time (I was a condescending ass to almost everyone, so...). But a few years later when I went through a pretty rough time, alcohol really compounded that and made me a lot more unhappy and at the base of it, unstable. It's very individual, but for some reason it is considered acceptable to preach at people about it.
The biggest thing that frustrates me about alcohol is my own tolerance. I'm too busy to build it up the way I'd like to, so social drinking is always a balance game which gets upset easily once shots start flowing.
gorgon wrote: Yeah, it's the combination of self-loathing and datelessness that creates the vicious circle. It builds a simple request for a cup of coffee into some kind of marriage proposal.
And I think it feeds the pedestal-placing behavior you sometimes see among dateless geeks. The logic is that a date with me would be horrible, so it's insulting to even suggest it to anyone. Therefore, I'll be gallant by sparing the fair lady from a date with a troll like me. Perhaps I'll try to become platonic friends with her. Maybe that way she'll eventually notice me for the gallant fellow I am underneath and look past my trollish exterior. Beauty and the Beast!
It's all nonsense. If you want to be "rescued," you have to rescue yourself.
Word. Girls are just girls, dudes are just dudes. 'Twas ever thus.
The self loathing thing I totally get. If you don't like yourself how can you expect people to like you? I guess this applies even beyond the scope of dating.
I think the situation I outlined is dangerous because it can lead guys into an even deeper hole. Now they waste their time pining for their platonic unattainable friend, practicing the wrong kinds of behavior, and generally ensuring they won't succeed. That path is fake and a trap...you may be able to see your destination from it, but it'll never take you there.
Corpsesarefun wrote: I agree that you should not have to drink to have a good time but it's hardly a monster that controls your actions from the moment you first take a sip.
Yeah, I know. i have drink alcohol already. As I mentioned, I have a small glass of kir almost every time I go play Warmachine . I have tasted a few different beverage, from wine (I do not like it at all, usually) to beer, champagne, cider, chartreuse, soju, …
It is just that I usually do not like the taste (though IIRC soju tasted ok/good), I do not want the effect, and I am quite worried about anything that could prove addictive. I also do not smoke, neither tobacco nor… other stuff.
I used to say I am straight-edge, mostly because of how exotic it sounded (we do not have a huge hardcore scene around here, I guess), but most of them tend to be a little too dogmatic about it for me.
Da Boss wrote: Different people experience alcohol in different ways. I mean, I drink, but my Dad's side of the family has 4 alcoholics on it, and I am wary about drinking due to that.
I didn't drink for the longest time for similar reasons.
Okay, is this a drinking thread or a dating thread?
The number 1 mistake I see guys make on a date is that they talk about themselves WAY too much. I have always had good success asking questions and actually listening to the answers and then use that to spring into the next question.
If you want to keep any mystery, at the end of the date the lady should know little about you; but you should know a lot about them. That gives them a reason to see you again.
Easy E wrote: Okay, is this a drinking thread or a dating thread?
The number 1 mistake I see guys make on a date is that they talk about themselves WAY too much. I have always had good success asking questions and actually listening to the answers and then use that to spring into the next question.
If you want to keep any mystery, at the end of the date the lady should know little about you; but you should know a lot about them. That gives them a reason to see you again.
YMMV
Quoted for absolute truth and exalted. This is GREAT advice. Women like to be given space to talk about themselves, and like a man who can listen instead of trying to dominate the discussion, in my experience. It's also a handy gauge of how interested they are in you too, if they ask you questions.
Da Boss wrote: Different people experience alcohol in different ways. I mean, I drink, but my Dad's side of the family has 4 alcoholics on it, and I am wary about drinking due to that.
I didn't drink for the longest time for similar reasons.
Word. My dad was a chronic alcoholic and died of liver failure at 42. Thing is though, it's my life, not his. Drinking in moderation is fine, as long as you're the one in control and not the booze. That said, if someone doesn't want to drink, that's their business. I will say this though - social drinking is the norm, and dating is made a little more awkward if you do not drink at all, as most first dates seem to involve a few quiet drinks somewhere as get-to-know-you-better. Coffee works too, mind.
gorgon wrote: Yeah, it's the combination of self-loathing and datelessness that creates the vicious circle. It builds a simple request for a cup of coffee into some kind of marriage proposal.
And I think it feeds the pedestal-placing behavior you sometimes see among dateless geeks. The logic is that a date with me would be horrible, so it's insulting to even suggest it to anyone. Therefore, I'll be gallant by sparing the fair lady from a date with a troll like me. Perhaps I'll try to become platonic friends with her. Maybe that way she'll eventually notice me for the gallant fellow I am underneath and look past my trollish exterior. Beauty and the Beast!
It's all nonsense. If you want to be "rescued," you have to rescue yourself.
Word. Girls are just girls, dudes are just dudes. 'Twas ever thus.
The self loathing thing I totally get. If you don't like yourself how can you expect people to like you? I guess this applies even beyond the scope of dating.
I've been trying to improve myself recently, physically with the hope it knocks on mentally, and it is difficult but I'm trying hard to stick with it. I've let myself get into a bit of a rut over the last few years and it has taken me a long time to realise it.
I've really enjoyed starting some kind of exercise routine. It does make you feel better, even if you're a toneless wonder like me. Progress nonetheless!
Thing is though mate, it's the mental/psychological benefits of working out that are key in building confidence, at least until you start seeing results, which in turn boost your confidence. Hell, it's not like I'm ripped or anything - I've gone from being a sack of gak to a carrier-bag of gak (with slightly bigger arms, shoulders and legs). I feel awesome, though!
Homework: Your task is to apply the advice contained within this thread so far, and ask a girl out tomorrow. That's it, just ask her out. Use it as a learning experience. Even if she says 'no', it'll be useful because you'll see that nothing particularly bad happens. The ground doesn't open up, people don't point and laugh (unless you're in high school and you ask in front of the whole class), she just says 'no'. Big fething deal. Get used to the feeling and learn not to give a gak.
Pro-tip: Ask a girl you're not actually attracted to. That way, you won't care about the outcome.
If I meet a single lady in the next 24 hours, I will.
Do it, bro! We're right there with you! Make us proud.
There is nothing to fear but fear itself. And maybe a swift knee to the balls. Y'know, if it goes really badly.
I kid, I kid!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Part II - The Importance of Proximity Basically, closeness and physical contact. If a girl (or guy, but let's say girl for the purposes of this post for the sake of brevity, and let's face it, probability) is willing to be in your personal space then that's a pretty big indicator that she's willing to be in your personal space. OK, so that sounds obvious when I put it like that, but you'd be surprised how often guys miss it. It's a subtle, but very real, cue that every guy should be aware of and know how to read. I'm not talking standing within a few feet of you, I'm talking inches or centimetres away, so close that she occasionally brushes into you. Now, be careful - it has to be completely voluntary and intentional! Not every girl who brushes into you or stands close on the train wants to make you her personal sex-chimp. Neither should you invade her personal space in the hope of engineering something. Before you're ready for those sort of moves, you should already know that she is definitely interested. Very few girls like some random bloke *ahem* 'all up in her grill', so to speak.
OK, so I'm far too white and English to pull off 'all up in her grill', but you take my point.
Proximity should be her decision, at least in the early stages. Look for ways to invite her into your personal space and make her stay there a pleasant one - smell nice (yes, sorry guys, but nice cologne/EDT is a must! Not optional. Having difficulty picking one? PM me for suggestions. ), look fresh, smile, be friendly and use open, confident body language. Examples of ways to invite a girl into your personal space:
- Show her something. Preferably something you have made/done that is done well and that you are proud of. Aptitude is sexy. Even well-painted minis, though that works MUCH better with girls who are, at worst, neutral about geekery. Saying that, I've had one or two girls who were not even remotely interested in wargaming cooing over some of my minis, and I'm at best a mediocre painter. Alternatively, If you're in school, beckon her over to come and check your work ('does this look right to you?'), even if, hell, ESPECIALLY if you know it's right. This has the double advantage of inviting her into your personal space and demonstrating your confidence by getting her to come to you, as opposed to the other way around. Remember not to explain yourself too thoroughly. Something along the lines of 'Uh, could you come and look at this for 2 seconds?' Don't be too polite, don't be too formal.
- 'Hey, what do you think of my new cologne? I'm not sure...' Wait! Come back! It actually works. I will offer the caveat that you shouldn't say this to strangers, though! You will need to have at least some acquaintance with the target, because if pitched wrong, it's quite a bold move. The tone you're looking for is something like this: 'Uh, hey. You're a girl (said jovially, as if she's just some random girl and you don't give a gak - if pitched right, she'll probably chuckle), what do you think of my new cologne? I'm not sure... I think it might be a bit sweet.' Then leave the rest to her. Obviously, make sure you smell nice first. I've used this technique fairly recently. Let's just say it works.
Anyway, these are just things that work for me. Feel free to disagree, comments and critique very welcome!
Easy E wrote: The number 1 mistake I see guys make on a date is that they talk about themselves WAY too much. I have always had good success asking questions and actually listening to the answers and then use that to spring into the next question.
If you want to keep any mystery, at the end of the date the lady should know little about you; but you should know a lot about them. That gives them a reason to see you again.
This is known. It reminds me of this hilarious scene from “La Cité de la peur”, famous French comedy, where Patrick Bialès dates Odile Deray. Odile Deray keep on saying incredibly boring stuff, and Patrick Bialès just respond by short phrases like “Oh, that's fascinating ! Please tell me more.” They obviously end up spending the night together. I could not find the scene on YouTube :(.
Medium of Death wrote: I've been trying to improve myself recently, physically with the hope it knocks on mentally, and it is difficult but I'm trying hard to stick with it. I've let myself get into a bit of a rut over the last few years and it has taken me a long time to realise it.
I've really enjoyed starting some kind of exercise routine. It does make you feel better, even if you're a toneless wonder like me. Progress nonetheless!
Thing is though mate, it's the mental/psychological benefits of working out that are key in building confidence, at least until you start seeing results, which in turn boost your confidence. Hell, it's not like I'm ripped or anything - I've gone from being a sack of gak to a carrier-bag of gak (with slightly bigger arms, shoulders and legs). I feel awesome, though!
I did push-ups almost every day for some time. I managed to get from one series of 20 to about 40/50. And then my wrist started aching. Nothing really painful, but enough to make me worry I was going to damage my wrists, so I stopped until it it went away, and I did not start over. But now that I found this document : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=search&action=search&search_keywords=army_get_fit.pdf&match_type=all&search_titles=0&forum=&daterange=-1&daterange2=0&sort_by=time&sort_dir=DESC&resulttype=1 I am going to try to see if doing a bunch of different exercises is better than just push-up. I currently do only one circuit, but with the highest number of repetitions. Oh, and I skip 7) because I have no box.
Also, I registered to do climbing twice a week yesterday. There is no better encouragement to push your arms very strongly than “If you do not, you will fall”, and with the adrenaline, you barely feel it. Well, you do feel it, but way less than afterward when recovering .
Anyway, the pushup worked for body image at least, even though they did not make me confident.
Medium of Death wrote: The exercising is definitely helping, even though it's early days. Definitely not going to gakbag it.
So has anybody managed to secure a date in the past few days then or even tried?
I'm talking to a couple of girls on Tinder (a must!), but I'm probably going to just chill this weekend, as last weekend was mental and work has been pretty stressful this week. Thankfully I'm off for 5 days this weekend as opposed to the usual 4. I guess I'll just see how things play out. I could always hang with the girl I went out with last thursday, as she seemed pretty cool.
I did push-ups almost every day for some time. I managed to get from one series of 20 to about 40/50. And then my wrist started aching. Nothing really painful, but enough to make me worry I was going to damage my wrists, so I stopped until it it went away, and I did not start over. But now that I found this document : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=search&action=search&search_keywords=army_get_fit.pdf&match_type=all&search_titles=0&forum=&daterange=-1&daterange2=0&sort_by=time&sort_dir=DESC&resulttype=1 I am going to try to see if doing a bunch of different exercises is better than just push-up. I currently do only one circuit, but with the highest number of repetitions. Oh, and I skip 7) because I have no box.
Also, I registered to do climbing twice a week yesterday. There is no better encouragement to push your arms very strongly than “If you do not, you will fall”, and with the adrenaline, you barely feel it. Well, you do feel it, but way less than afterward when recovering .
Anyway, the pushup worked for body image at least, even though they did not make me confident.
Push ups can be surprisingly strenuous on the wrists. I have thin and relatively weak wrists. My programming probably doesn't help much with keeping them from getting beat up. Whatever pressing movement you're doing I would highly recommend playing around with your positioning and if applicable hand angle to see if you can't find a sweet spot that reduces strain on your wrists. Should that not work, athletic tape or wrist wraps will help reduce any stress to the wrists. Proper diet and programming can lead to a significant change in appearance for a beginner in just 3 to 6 months time. Becoming more physically fit is a huge confident boost for most and it will attract more attention from women to some degree.
There are alternatives to push-ups too, that can be pretty effective, and will have less impact on the wrists. Doing lying dumbbell/barbell presses is a solid chest workout, with the added benefit of really working some muscles that are mainly stabilizers that don't get much work from regular bench press or push ups.
Jumps squats are great for your legs btw. Like, jumping from a squatting position might not seem too tough, but do 20 in a row and you'll feel it. If you do enough sets of 10 or so, you'll be very sore the next morning, so don't overdo it.
Between push ups, dumbbell presses, squats/jump squats, bicep curls, and reverse crunches, you can get in a solid weight workout with only 2 dumbells (though having more of differing weights is probably best).
I figure this is as good of a place to ask as anywhere else, what do you guys use for dandruff?
I have literally tried a dozen different shampoos, and used them consistently and in accordance with directions. T-gel, Selson Blue, Head and Shoulders, a half dozen overpriced ones recommended by barbers, and even some medicated shampoo. Nothing really worked. I tried switching out my brush, which was a little rough, for a comb, still nothing.
I'm kind of at a loss, and I hate how my shoulders always look like they're having a white Christmas.
How far in advance should people say when asking if someone wants to go for a coffee or something? Are there days you should aim for? Days you should avoid? Any time within 2-5 days after asking or something?
Similarly, what are places you should avoid for first 'dates' (I loathe using that word, and I don't know why)? I often see people assuming somewhere like the cinema is ideal, but of course you're both sat there in silence for an hour and a half, which is pretty much the opposite of what you want to be doing on an early date.
How does one go about getting a reservation at Dorsia?
Those are all the questions I can see people wanting answers to right now, but it's 20-past-11 in the morning so I'm still only barely functional.
The fact that you're looking at a specific day shows you're on the right track IMO. You don't want to say something vague like "maybe we can get a cup of coffee sometime." That isn't a clear question for her to respond to. Suggest a specific day. "Hey, I have some free time on Wednesday...would you like to get a cup of coffee?"
If she's interested she'll accept or suggest another day that works better for her.
Edit: In my single days I preferred first dates over a meal, but that's because I felt my strength was one-on-one conversation. (See, even in dating it's about getting "good ground.") Most of my dates were in the city, so there was always the opportunity to go for a walk afterward if things went well.
If you're not as confident about conversation, I'd probably look at more active dates where you're doing something. As I think you already understand, movies don't allow conversation, nor are they active. If I didn't know her well already, I usually saved the movies for a later date.
Avatar 720 wrote: How far in advance should people say when asking if someone wants to go for a coffee or something? Are there days you should aim for? Days you should avoid? Any time within 2-5 days after asking or something?
Similarly, what are places you should avoid for first 'dates' (I loathe using that word, and I don't know why)? I often see people assuming somewhere like the cinema is ideal, but of course you're both sat there in silence for an hour and a half, which is pretty much the opposite of what you want to be doing on an early date.
How does one go about getting a reservation at Dorsia?
Those are all the questions I can see people wanting answers to right now, but it's 20-past-11 in the morning so I'm still only barely functional.
Just ask what days she's available that week and work with that. Yeah, cinema is probably a bad idea for a first date since you're trying to get to know the person.
A week!? I've scheduled vacations on shorter notice. I'd argue that you're much better off striking while the iron's hot - that coming weekend the absolute latest and only if you both have busy schedules during the week.
A week!? I've scheduled vacations on shorter notice. I'd argue that you're much better off striking while the iron's hot - that coming weekend the absolute latest and only if you both have busy schedules during the week.
Spontaneous dates are nice but difficult to arrange, if you want a date with nobody in particular then you can just fire off a bunch of offers and you'll likely get one reply that is free that day but if you have someone specific in mind then a week gives you both time to clear your schedules and arrange something special.
Albatross wrote: I'm talking to a couple of girls on Tinder (a must!), but I'm probably going to just chill this weekend, as last weekend was mental and work has been pretty stressful this week. Thankfully I'm off for 5 days this weekend as opposed to the usual 4. I guess I'll just see how things play out. I could always hang with the girl I went out with last thursday, as she seemed pretty cool.
Tinder seriously gets me nowhere, but then again my photos are gak.
How far in advance should people say when asking if someone wants to go for a coffee or something? Are there days you should aim for? Days you should avoid? Any time within 2-5 days after asking or something?
NEVER on a Monday, because Monday's almost universally suck for everyone, and you don't want to be associated with that suck... hell, don't even talk to them on Mondays, just in case. I would say don't plan more than a week out, 2-5 days sounds reasonable, I would try to keep it to 3-4.
Similarly, what are places you should avoid for first 'dates' (I loathe using that word, and I don't know why)? I often see people assuming somewhere like the cinema is ideal, but of course you're both sat there in silence for an hour and a half, which is pretty much the opposite of what you want to be doing on an early date.
A movie is better for a 2nd or 3rd date... lifehack: take them to a horror film, something REALLY scary... aside from the chance that she'll grab you in fear (great way to break the physical barrier) it will also get her heart rate up and cause a release of dopamine and serotonin, both of which are feel-good 'love hormones'. Through the wonderful thing known as 'misattribution of arousal', she will feel more attracted to you...
As for a 1st date, I'm of the opinion it should be one of two things, either something short and simple to give you a chance to converse (get coffee/tea together, ice cream, walk in the park, etc.) or something more hands on, maybe a little competitive (bowling, go for a hike (similar to a walk in the park but a little more intense), spend a day down the shore, etc.) to create some more interaction between the two of you.
IMO, your date options are situational... if its someone you just met or whatever in a bar, your options are a bit more limited (I wouldn't invite someone I only just met on a hike, thats like serial-rapist territory... unless of course we met in a situation where it would be appropriate to do so, for example on a hike, or while rock-climbing, etc.), if its someone you know through friends/have known for a while (for example, the cute girl at the rock gym that you climb with on occasion), then the hike invite is more acceptable.
The fact that you're looking at a specific day shows you're on the right track IMO. You don't want to say something vague like "maybe we can get a cup of coffee sometime." That isn't a clear question for her to respond to. Suggest a specific day. "Hey, I have some free time on Wednesday...would you like to get a cup of coffee?"
This.
If she's interested she'll accept or suggest another day that works better for her.
Also this. If she just says 'oh, I'm busy, maybe another time' and makes no indication of when that other time might be, then she ain't interested and you should move on.
If you're not as confident about conversation, I'd probably look at more active dates where you're doing something. As I think you already understand, movies don't allow conversation, nor are they active. If I didn't know her well already, I usually saved the movies for a later date.
Yup, pretty much this. But its a function of the both of you as much as its a function of yourself. I'm a pretty good conversationalist... but I'm also pretty quiet, I don't speak much unless I feel like I have something to say (and I usually don't), some people though I just click with and even though we've never met before I can talk to them like we're old friends. Lots of people are the same, and a date scenario can be awkward and one or both parties might not know what to say, etc. which will wreck everything even if both parties want the same thing out of it. If you don't know that you can hold the conversation, then always err on the side of an activity of some sort.
The only advantage of the cinema is to then go someplace to talk about the movie as a shared experience. However, for that you really need the right type of movie. A movie like Transformers 4 won't work.
I actually recommend your first date* to be more of an action date. This again is something that you both need to do together to create a memory and a shared experience. Memory and shared experience is what binds people.
In addition, an action date often provides a convenient excuse to break the touch barrier in a natural way. For example, if you are doing some light rock climbing you will naturally need to help each other up occassionally. A steadying hand here, a leg up there, etc. Therefore, touching each other and consequently making continued touching less awkward.
*= 1st dates are not the same as a Get To Know You coffee or similar non-committal meet-up to decide if you are worth getting a real date.
I agree with the action date idea Easy E. Something like lazer quest (lazer tag), or paint balling would be awesome in my opinion xD But obviously it depends if she likes that sort of thing or not lol.
Cheesecat wrote: I've ice climbed before but I don't remember much touching being involved (other than when starting up).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe the attitude is different in the UK but "laser-Tag" is considered something for young children in Canada.
So is playing with Toy Soldiers.
I have done Laser-tag on dates, and we had a blast. Granted, it probably isn't the only thing you do. You also do some other stuff like bowling, eating, wall climbing, bouncy house, DDR, roller skating, and general silliness. It really depends on who you are going out with. Plus, the novelty of it again leads to memory and shared experience which is a huge bonus.
My motto is to do something I enjoy doing so even if the date is crap, I will still have had fun. Plus, if you are doing something you like you are more likely to be having fun. You can then transfer this positive energy to the person you are with and they are more likely to have fun too! A fun date usually = second date.
If they aren't into it and there is no second date.... well too bad for them because they just missed out on a ton of fun! They should be pittied.
It'll only end bad if someone makes it awkward. If you go out, have the date and decide that it won't work there should be no harm done. Just don't make a big deal out of a first date.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Everyone is telling me not to ask out this girl at work. Saying it is a bad idea
You work at Dairy Queen, this isn't going to have any serious impact on your career path go for it.
I normally make it a point to not gak where I eat, romantically speaking. (What an odd thing to type.) But, listen to the Cheesecat. If your job gets complicated, you can go work at the Subway across the street. Fast food jobs are a dime a dozen.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Everyone is telling me not to ask out this girl at work. Saying it is a bad idea
Why? Does she wear a helmet? Is she the boss' daughter? Does she have a face tattoo?
You have to give more details.
Because she is my co-worker and it could end badly for me they say
Instead of asking her out, just see if she wants to grab some food at the all-night restaraunt with you because you are hungry.
Don't make it such a big deal. Asking a girl out on a date should not be seen as some life altering EVENT. YOu are setting it way too high on a pedestal then. Instead, it should be simply viewed as just another thing you do during a day.
Really, the bigger of a deal you make it; the more likely you are to be rejected because you will come off as some awkward, desperate guy. Desperation never sells, whether you are selling cars, life insurance, or yourself.
If she says No, you shrug and ask the girl next to her. People who reject spending time with you are really missing out, and it is their loss. Oh well, they had their chance.
Avatar 720 wrote: How far in advance should people say when asking if someone wants to go for a coffee or something? Are there days you should aim for? Days you should avoid? Any time within 2-5 days after asking or something?
If it's just something casual like coffee or drinks, the following weekend is usually fine, in my experience.
Similarly, what are places you should avoid for first 'dates' (I loathe using that word, and I don't know why)? I often see people assuming somewhere like the cinema is ideal, but of course you're both sat there in silence for an hour and a half, which is pretty much the opposite of what you want to be doing on an early date.
Yeah, when I was on POF, when asked what their ideal first date is, most girls seemed to say 'anything but the cinema'. I found it odd, but apparently it's a thing. I guess it's the sort of thing you do once you know the girl a bit better.
How does one go about getting a reservation at Dorsia?
Dorsia. So Dorsia is where Avatar wants to go... I can get you in there. They know me.
/boynextdoor
Incidentally chaps, I have a date squared away for this weekend and got another girl's number on Tinder. Get out there and make it happen, people!
Cheesecat wrote: I've ice climbed before but I don't remember much touching being involved (other than when starting up).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe the attitude is different in the UK but "laser-Tag" is considered something for young children in Canada.
So is playing with Toy Soldiers.
I have done Laser-tag on dates, and we had a blast. Granted, it probably isn't the only thing you do. You also do some other stuff like bowling, eating, wall climbing, bouncy house, DDR, roller skating, and general silliness. It really depends on who you are going out with. Plus, the novelty of it again leads to memory and shared experience which is a huge bonus.
My motto is to do something I enjoy doing so even if the date is crap, I will still have had fun. Plus, if you are doing something you like you are more likely to be having fun. You can then transfer this positive energy to the person you are with and they are more likely to have fun too! A fun date usually = second date.
If they aren't into it and there is no second date.... well too bad for them because they just missed out on a ton of fun! They should be pittied.
Couldn't agree more, though I really doubt how a date can go so bad in those circumstances that you are the only one to have enjoyed yourself lol.
For date ideas, I did dinner and Dave and Busters, not too long ago. It went pretty well. Dave and Busters, for those who don't have them, is like an adult Chuck E Cheese, and she was the kind of girl who would enjoy it.
Dinner and movie is pretty standard, but something more active it probably better.
Wine tastings. Women love wine tastings. Well, at least a lot of them do.
When I asked her out she said she likes me, but doesn't want a relationship right now. She's also pretty shy, but a lot more candid texting(or on steam) than in person.
However, she also wants to go out for drinks at some point.
Couldn't agree more, though I really doubt how a date can go so bad in those circumstances that you are the only one to have enjoyed yourself lol.
Exactly. They almost never do. It is simply a mechanism to help deal with nerves/fear.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xole wrote: I've got one I can't quite wrap my head around.
When I asked her out she said she likes me, but doesn't want a relationship right now. She's also pretty shy, but a lot more candid texting(or on steam) than in person.
However, she also wants to go out for drinks at some point.
Do you have to be in a relationship to go out and have some fun?
kronk wrote: Obviously, I've done my homework, too!
Well done! Although you only get a C because she's already your fiancee. Saying that, if she wasn't already your fiancee when you asked her on the date, you get an A+++!
xole wrote: I've got one I can't quite wrap my head around.
When I asked her out she said she likes me, but doesn't want a relationship right now. She's also pretty shy, but a lot more candid texting(or on steam) than in person.
However, she also wants to go out for drinks at some point.
Doesn't seem that hard to figure out IMO. She's a tease. She enjoys flirting with you, but doesn't want anything else. And as long as you hold up your part of the bargain, she's happy to continue teasing you. Pretty nice and convenient for her, huh? Think about it...what does going out for drinks "at some point" even mean?
If it was me, I'd move on. IME, those girls are usually trouble. If you're unwilling to do that, try not answering her texts or whatever for a while and see what happens. Change the dynamic and stop playing the role she wants you to play.
xole wrote: I've got one I can't quite wrap my head around.
When I asked her out she said she likes me, but doesn't want a relationship right now. She's also pretty shy, but a lot more candid texting(or on steam) than in person.
However, she also wants to go out for drinks at some point.
Doesn't seem that hard to figure out IMO. She's a tease. She enjoys flirting with you, but doesn't want anything else. And as long as you hold up your part of the bargain, she's happy to continue teasing you. Pretty nice and convenient for her, huh? Think about it...what does going out for drinks "at some point" even mean?
If it was me, I'd move on. IME, those girls are usually trouble. If you're unwilling to do that, try not answering her texts or whatever for a while and see what happens. Change the dynamic and stop playing the role she wants you to play.
The "at some point" is because of me, because right now I'm busy with mid terms and papers.
xole wrote: I've got one I can't quite wrap my head around.
When I asked her out she said she likes me, but doesn't want a relationship right now. She's also pretty shy, but a lot more candid texting(or on steam) than in person.
However, she also wants to go out for drinks at some point.
Doesn't seem that hard to figure out IMO. She's a tease. She enjoys flirting with you, but doesn't want anything else. And as long as you hold up your part of the bargain, she's happy to continue teasing you. Pretty nice and convenient for her, huh? Think about it...what does going out for drinks "at some point" even mean?
If it was me, I'd move on. IME, those girls are usually trouble. If you're unwilling to do that, try not answering her texts or whatever for a while and see what happens. Change the dynamic and stop playing the role she wants you to play.
Yep, I had the same thing with the girl from my earlier story. Stopped texting her and going over to say 'hi' at work, lo and behold, she starts texting me and coming to see me. Women are weird like that. Sometimes they want to push you away, but not ALL the way away, if you take my meaning. Just play it cool. Talk to other chicks. Make sure she sees.
If you're going to a movie, pick one that fits the situation.
Went with a girl to see Twilight: Breaking Dawn pt.2.
I went in full MSTK3 mode throughout the entire movie (for what it's worth, the theatre was almost empty). I don't feel that she was too happy with me.
But I had a great time (as did a few people in the audience who joined in).
Point is, know your audience. Just because she says she wants to watch Twilight for the laughs doesn't mean she wants to watch Twilight for the laughs (for what it's worth, it is easily one of the funniest movies of the decade, totally worth watching).
Cheesecat wrote: I've ice climbed before but I don't remember much touching being involved (other than when starting up).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe the attitude is different in the UK but "laser-Tag" is considered something for young children in Canada.
So is playing with Toy Soldiers.
I have done Laser-tag on dates, and we had a blast. Granted, it probably isn't the only thing you do. You also do some other stuff like bowling, eating, wall climbing, bouncy house, DDR, roller skating, and general silliness. It really depends on who you are going out with. Plus, the novelty of it again leads to memory and shared experience which is a huge bonus.
My motto is to do something I enjoy doing so even if the date is crap, I will still have had fun. Plus, if you are doing something you like you are more likely to be having fun. You can then transfer this positive energy to the person you are with and they are more likely to have fun too! A fun date usually = second date.
If they aren't into it and there is no second date.... well too bad for them because they just missed out on a ton of fun! They should be pittied.
Ice skating. Ice skating is the ultimate action date. Why? Well, in the US at least, the average girl doesn't know how to ice skate. She hits the ice, has trouble balancing... what do you do? You hold her by the hands and help her stay steady, tease her a little bit, and help teach her how to skate. Its perfect, and its FUN.
Incidentally chaps, I have a date squared away for this weekend and got another girl's number on Tinder. Get out there and make it happen, people!
So how attractive is the average girl you go on dates with? We talkin HB7+ or like HB3-4... cuz you go on a lot of dates
Cheesecat wrote: I've ice climbed before but I don't remember much touching being involved (other than when starting up).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe the attitude is different in the UK but "laser-Tag" is considered something for young children in Canada.
So is playing with Toy Soldiers.
I have done Laser-tag on dates, and we had a blast. Granted, it probably isn't the only thing you do. You also do some other stuff like bowling, eating, wall climbing, bouncy house, DDR, roller skating, and general silliness. It really depends on who you are going out with. Plus, the novelty of it again leads to memory and shared experience which is a huge bonus.
My motto is to do something I enjoy doing so even if the date is crap, I will still have had fun. Plus, if you are doing something you like you are more likely to be having fun. You can then transfer this positive energy to the person you are with and they are more likely to have fun too! A fun date usually = second date.
If they aren't into it and there is no second date.... well too bad for them because they just missed out on a ton of fun! They should be pittied.
Ice skating. Ice skating is the ultimate action date. Why? Well, in the US at least, the average girl doesn't know how to ice skate. She hits the ice, has trouble balancing... what do you do? You hold her by the hands and help her stay steady, tease her a little bit, and help teach her how to skate. Its perfect, and its FUN.
My knees are fethed; if I take a fall on anything particularly solid and land even slightly awkwardly, then I'm off my feet for the next day or so. I'm also not very strong at all, and terrified of heights, so climbing isn't a good idea either. Essentially there's nothing 'action-y' that I can really do except things like laser quest and bowling (even if I am horrific at it); everything else won't end in fun, it'll end in pain and blood and tears.
I'm afraid of heights but I still enjoyed ice climbing and indoor climbing, try new things you maybe surprised you like them more than you thought. Like I once attended a native sweat lodge ritual and I thought it would be boring sitting in a hot pitch-black hut soaking in my own sweat but it
turned out to be this awesome almost druggy experience.
xole wrote: I've got one I can't quite wrap my head around.
When I asked her out she said she likes me, but doesn't want a relationship right now. She's also pretty shy, but a lot more candid texting(or on steam) than in person.
However, she also wants to go out for drinks at some point.
In my opinion all she is doing is trying to keep the companionship you guys have without it transforming into something all awkward on a 'date' experience(could be for her headspace benefit not yours). She has said she likes you and doesn't want a relationship now (how often is this line bs!) but wants to see you again. Don't do what I did and take the "not as a date" thing personally and let a good woman go.
Advice from the stupid. I know what I'm talking about.
Cheesecat wrote: I'm afraid of heights but I still enjoyed ice climbing and indoor climbing, try new things you maybe surprised you like them more than you thought. Like I once attended a native sweat lodge ritual and I thought it would be boring sitting in a hot pitch-black hut soaking in my own sweat but it
turned out to be this awesome almost druggy experience.
Already tried indoor climbing before.
Nope.
I'm also not trying ice climbing, because I don't want to.
Any activity that is '______ climbing' is off my list forever; I can barely climb a ladder without gaking myself.
As my one piece of dating wisdom, don't try picking up girls in clubs if you don't like going to clubs yourself - because then she thinks you share an interest in clubbing, which is expensive and not much fun (YMMV)
(unless you're looking for a one-nighter, in which case, clubs could work)
Anyway Alby, I realized with the fatal flaw in this thread, you skipped perhaps the most important part (or at least the one I have the most trouble with)... The Approach.
If I see a pretty lady at the other end of the bar, what do I do? If theres a cute girl sitting across from me on a train, what do I do? If I step outside of the bar and see a cute girl smoking a cigarette, what do I do? What about the waitress? The girl at the checkout counter of the local supermarket? The girl in the car next to mine at the stop light? The chick walking down the street in the city? What if she's with her friends? What if she's alone? What if she's with some guys (but they don't appear to be dating)? When is it appropriate to approach? When is it not?
Anyway Alby, I realized with the fatal flaw in this thread, you skipped perhaps the most important part (or at least the one I have the most trouble with)... The Approach.
If I see a pretty lady at the other end of the bar, what do I do? If theres a cute girl sitting across from me on a train, what do I do? If I step outside of the bar and see a cute girl smoking a cigarette, what do I do? What about the waitress? The girl at the checkout counter of the local supermarket? The girl in the car next to mine at the stop light? The chick walking down the street in the city? What if she's with her friends? What if she's alone? What if she's with some guys (but they don't appear to be dating)? When is it appropriate to approach? When is it not?
Here is what I learned in my decade or so in sales. The number 1 reason a salesperson fails is because they never ask for the sale. It doesn't really matter how badly you ask, if you at least ask you get 20% of people saying Yes. 20% will always say No. Then the other 60% will say No to a bad approach and need some more convincing or a more sophisticated approach.
This also applies to dating. I had a friend that used the worst line ever, but it never failed to get him a date eventually because he was always asking people out on dates. Most folks without dates have never really come out and asked for one.
So, my answer is that the technique of the approach matters less than actually asking, even if it is as clumsy and boring as "Can we go out on a date?" That will put you at least into a 20% success rate. Now, to raise that 20% to a higher ratio involves skill and technique. However, if you don't know what to say or do; at least just ask for the date.
Anyway Alby, I realized with the fatal flaw in this thread, you skipped perhaps the most important part (or at least the one I have the most trouble with)... The Approach.
If I see a pretty lady at the other end of the bar, what do I do? If theres a cute girl sitting across from me on a train, what do I do? If I step outside of the bar and see a cute girl smoking a cigarette, what do I do? What about the waitress? The girl at the checkout counter of the local supermarket? The girl in the car next to mine at the stop light? The chick walking down the street in the city? What if she's with her friends? What if she's alone? What if she's with some guys (but they don't appear to be dating)? When is it appropriate to approach? When is it not?
Anyway Alby, I realized with the fatal flaw in this thread, you skipped perhaps the most important part (or at least the one I have the most trouble with)... The Approach.
If I see a pretty lady at the other end of the bar, what do I do? If theres a cute girl sitting across from me on a train, what do I do? If I step outside of the bar and see a cute girl smoking a cigarette, what do I do? What about the waitress? The girl at the checkout counter of the local supermarket? The girl in the car next to mine at the stop light? The chick walking down the street in the city? What if she's with her friends? What if she's alone? What if she's with some guys (but they don't appear to be dating)? When is it appropriate to approach? When is it not?
Here is what I learned in my decade or so in sales. The number 1 reason a salesperson fails is because they never ask for the sale. It doesn't really matter how badly you ask, if you at least ask you get 20% of people saying Yes. 20% will always say No. Then the other 60% will say No to a bad approach and need some more convincing or a more sophisticated approach.
This also applies to dating. I had a friend that used the worst line ever, but it never failed to get him a date eventually because he was always asking people out on dates. Most folks without dates have never really come out and asked for one.
So, my answer is that the technique of the approach matters less than actually asking, even if it is as clumsy and boring as "Can we go out on a date?" That will put you at least into a 20% success rate. Now, to raise that 20% to a higher ratio involves skill and technique. However, if you don't know what to say or do; at least just ask for the date.
Right, but that doesn't address the issue of actually getting into a position of where you can ask for a date. I don't know what part of the country you're from, but around here, if you were to walk up to an attractive woman you have never met before and say "Can we go out on a date" without any sort of lead-in whatsoever... you're probably not getting a date...
Anyway Alby, I realized with the fatal flaw in this thread, you skipped perhaps the most important part (or at least the one I have the most trouble with)... The Approach.
If I see a pretty lady at the other end of the bar, what do I do? If theres a cute girl sitting across from me on a train, what do I do? If I step outside of the bar and see a cute girl smoking a cigarette, what do I do? What about the waitress? The girl at the checkout counter of the local supermarket? The girl in the car next to mine at the stop light? The chick walking down the street in the city? What if she's with her friends? What if she's alone? What if she's with some guys (but they don't appear to be dating)? When is it appropriate to approach? When is it not?
Here is what I learned in my decade or so in sales. The number 1 reason a salesperson fails is because they never ask for the sale. It doesn't really matter how badly you ask, if you at least ask you get 20% of people saying Yes. 20% will always say No. Then the other 60% will say No to a bad approach and need some more convincing or a more sophisticated approach.
This also applies to dating. I had a friend that used the worst line ever, but it never failed to get him a date eventually because he was always asking people out on dates. Most folks without dates have never really come out and asked for one.
So, my answer is that the technique of the approach matters less than actually asking, even if it is as clumsy and boring as "Can we go out on a date?" That will put you at least into a 20% success rate. Now, to raise that 20% to a higher ratio involves skill and technique. However, if you don't know what to say or do; at least just ask for the date.
E has it right. This was actually going to be Part IV: 'Ask for the Money'. I'll go into more detail later but basically, I would recommend asking a girl out in a one-on-one setting. It's better for maintaining your confidence levels if you don't have an audience.
So how attractive is the average girl you go on dates with? We talkin HB7+ or like HB3-4... cuz you go on a lot of dates
Sorry, didn't answer this before. HB? Not sure what you mean..
Honestly, it varies. I'm not shallow at all, so looks aren't everything. I'm no Bradley Cooper! The last girl I was in a relationship with was Chinese, stunningly beautiful (to me anyway, YMMV), but insane. The girl I went out with last thursday was fairly average-looking (for the purposes of this conversation, of course) but really funny, with a great personality. If I think I'm going to enjoy someone's company, I'll date them and see what happens. I do tend to go for curvier women though, being something of a larger chap.
I agree with Albatross about the one-on-one. You keep saying "approach", but to me in most of your scenarios -- bar, waitress, supermarket, etc. -- your approach is easy or already done for you. If she's your waitress, checking out your groceries, etc. your contact has been made. You just need to strike up a real conversation. Others -- groups, stoplights -- make me think you don't have the best grasp of what actually constitutes a good opportunity.
I mean, good luck approaching a girl who's with a guy or guys and you don't know the score. I guess you can try it by waiting for an opening when the dudes aren't around, but you better be prepared for that situation to escalate quickly. I mean, I'm a pretty easygoing guy and not the jealous type, but I'm not going to respond well if you hit on my girl when I'm standing right over there. And even if he's just a platonic friend or her brother, he still might not appreciate it and interfere with whatever good vibes you're trying to establish with her.
Speaking of dates, there hasn't been a lot here about specifically what you should do.
My one rule is this: Whether or not it was a cold approach, unless the girl wears tons of designer clothing and fancy jewelry (in which case she will probably expect a dinner date...seriously), take her along while you do something you were planning on doing anyway. You want it to be casual. For example, "I was thinking about going to the park today to play with my dog and drink some wine...want to come with? We'll see if he approves."
Definitely include an activity though, because sitting around listening to a woman talk about herself is less fun than watching primer dry. Unless she's a complete train wreck, in which case you probably don't want to date her. Anyway... Ideally it's going to be something that you do very well, she doesn't do at all, and she's going to need some coaching. For outdoorsy women, shooting or fishing both work really well. For a more urban type, darts or pool work well. Whatever you do, don't go to a movie.
I'd say fishing would be hit or miss. There's often a lot of waiting, and if its her first time and doesn't catch a fish, it could suck quite a lot that all the time was for nothing lol. But I guess if you're patient and have plenty to talk about, it could still work out fine.
Glaiceana wrote: I'd say fishing would be hit or miss. There's often a lot of waiting, and if its her first time and doesn't catch a fish, it could suck quite a lot that all the time was for nothing lol. But I guess if you're patient and have plenty to talk about, it could still work out fine.
I mean, you can still talk the entire time. Another activity I like a lot is archery. Shooting crossbow is very easy, and there's an indoor range near me. It's free as you can reuse your bolts, cocking the bow is very difficult (165 lb pull) so you'll be casually showing off your strength doing it for her, and you don't need to wear hearing protection so you can actually chat and laugh about stuff while you're doing it.
As for fishing...there is a bit of waiting but there's a lot of casting, baiting a hook, etc. Most women are hesitant to touch worms, so definitely use live bait. It opens up good opportunities for flirty teasing, like "What...you're afraid to touch a worm!? OK I'll do it for you this time but you're gonna have to get a little dirty sooner or later." etc. There are about 1000 reasons that outdoor sports are amazing for dates.
One main thing is, if you're going fishing, be sure to go to a spot that always hits. I've got a few spots where I'll rarely catch anything worth keeping, but I'll hit little sunnies all day long. Catch and release fishing is pretty good if you've got a nice spot
Anyway Alby, I realized with the fatal flaw in this thread, you skipped perhaps the most important part (or at least the one I have the most trouble with)... The Approach.
If I see a pretty lady at the other end of the bar, what do I do? If theres a cute girl sitting across from me on a train, what do I do? If I step outside of the bar and see a cute girl smoking a cigarette, what do I do? What about the waitress? The girl at the checkout counter of the local supermarket? The girl in the car next to mine at the stop light? The chick walking down the street in the city? What if she's with her friends? What if she's alone? What if she's with some guys (but they don't appear to be dating)? When is it appropriate to approach? When is it not?
Here is what I learned in my decade or so in sales. The number 1 reason a salesperson fails is because they never ask for the sale. It doesn't really matter how badly you ask, if you at least ask you get 20% of people saying Yes. 20% will always say No. Then the other 60% will say No to a bad approach and need some more convincing or a more sophisticated approach.
This also applies to dating. I had a friend that used the worst line ever, but it never failed to get him a date eventually because he was always asking people out on dates. Most folks without dates have never really come out and asked for one.
So, my answer is that the technique of the approach matters less than actually asking, even if it is as clumsy and boring as "Can we go out on a date?" That will put you at least into a 20% success rate. Now, to raise that 20% to a higher ratio involves skill and technique. However, if you don't know what to say or do; at least just ask for the date.
E has it right. This was actually going to be Part IV: 'Ask for the Money'. I'll go into more detail later but basically, I would recommend asking a girl out in a one-on-one setting. It's better for maintaining your confidence levels if you don't have an audience.
Right, thats not what I'm talking about. You guys are discussing 'actually asking a girl out', I'm talking about the more important (IMO) part of actually meeting/introducing yourself to the girl so you can actually get in a position to ask. (As for the ladies, if you're even halfway decent looking most guys would probably be pretty thrilled if you just walked up to them and started a conversation).
So how attractive is the average girl you go on dates with? We talkin HB7+ or like HB3-4... cuz you go on a lot of dates
Sorry, didn't answer this before. HB? Not sure what you mean..
Honestly, it varies. I'm not shallow at all, so looks aren't everything. I'm no Bradley Cooper! The last girl I was in a relationship with was Chinese, stunningly beautiful (to me anyway, YMMV), but insane. The girl I went out with last thursday was fairly average-looking (for the purposes of this conversation, of course) but really funny, with a great personality. If I think I'm going to enjoy someone's company, I'll date them and see what happens. I do tend to go for curvier women though, being something of a larger chap.
It was a joke, lol. HB is pickup artist lingo for "Hot Babe", its some sort of scale they use to rate women.
I agree with Albatross about the one-on-one. You keep saying "approach", but to me in most of your scenarios -- bar, waitress, supermarket, etc. -- your approach is easy or already done for you. If she's your waitress, checking out your groceries, etc. your contact has been made. You just need to strike up a real conversation. Others -- groups, stoplights -- make me think you don't have the best grasp of what actually constitutes a good opportunity.
lol, I was trying to be humorous with the stoplight, etc.
Should we limit the discussion to how to generate contact or assume you are already there and the person is paying attention you?
Well thus far the assumption has been that you're already there... I think thats a weak assumption, since I suspect most people that need this thread will also need to meet people first in order to utilize the information contained therein.
You are nowhere near as witty as you think you are, man. Sorry, what's your issue here? That I'm unsuccessful with women because I go on lots of dates? I've never not gotten a second date, if that's what you're implying... I've been in relationships, too. I'm not saying I'm some sort of lothario, but I've been around the block and wanted to extend some (hopefully) helpful advice to my fellow dakkanauts, in the interests of helping them to meet someone. It came out of an earlier thread, in which a few people (very bravely, in my opinion) expressed that they had not been on a date, or had struggled to get one/not been on many etc. I'm trying to help.
If you feel my advice is in any way invalid due to my age or relationship status, then by all means, offer some advice of your own. We're all ears. Except for Frazzled. He's mostly gin, bad temper and a gun.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Put THAT in your sig and quote it!
endless wrote: DakkaDakka : dating advice from a single 30 something.
Who better to give advice than someone who goes on a lot of dates?
I spent far too long thinking about this and I've concluded that 30 something year olds that regularly go on dates are indeed the best people to give dating advice. Anyone under 20 has nowhere near enough experience and those in their 20's are only just refining their date etiquette. On the other end of the spectrum you have those in their 40's and 50's who are much less likely to be actively dating and thus are more likely to give dated (pardon the pun) advice, though their experience may make up for it. Ultimately the only people who don't have something to offer in the world of dating advice are those that have never been on a date for whatever reason.
Yeah, I agree that 30 somethings would probably be the best for advice but obviously "endless" knows better than all of us. Also I thought this thread was supposed to be a form of collected knowledge it's not like this is just an opinion piece by one poster.
Everything has been covered pretty well except - if you don't have really awesome facial hair, shave that gak. If you aren't sure whether you have awesome facial hair, you don't.
Glaiceana wrote: I agree with the action date idea Easy E. Something like lazer quest (lazer tag), or paint balling would be awesome in my opinion xD
I do not know if laser quest/tag/game works the same way in UK/US and in France, but here it would definitely not work for a date, because you need to be at the very least 6 to play a game.
And that is pretty much what I do almost every time I do something with a girl : even when we end up doing it just the two of us, I almost always said something like “maybe nameoffriend will join us” or something to that effect. Hence, not date .
chaos0xomega wrote: A movie is better for a 2nd or 3rd date... lifehack: take them to a horror film, something REALLY scary... aside from the chance that she'll grab you in fear (great way to break the physical barrier) it will also get her heart rate up and cause a release of dopamine and serotonin, both of which are feel-good 'love hormones'. Through the wonderful thing known as 'misattribution of arousal', she will feel more attracted to you...
Really ? I would have thought most girls are not really into horror movies, and those that are would be more hardened against it than most people.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well thus far the assumption has been that you're already there... I think thats a weak assumption, since I suspect most people that need this thread will also need to meet people first in order to utilize the information contained therein.
It is true for me.
Avatar 720 wrote: Essentially there's nothing 'action-y' that I can really do except things like laser quest and bowling (even if I am horrific at it); everything else won't end in fun, it'll end in pain and blood and tears.
Okay, maybe not blood.
I am sure there are other things, except maybe if you are horribly frail for a reason. Bicycling, for instance ?
gorgon wrote: You keep saying "approach", but to me in most of your scenarios -- bar, waitress, supermarket, etc. -- your approach is easy or already done for you. If she's your waitress, checking out your groceries, etc. your contact has been made. You just need to strike up a real conversation.
I am surprised, because here I see two big problems. The first one is that they will be working, usually pretty busy, and will not have time for a real conversation. The second one, especially with a waitress, is that they are in a situation where professionally, they cannot really tell you “feth you”. They have to be at least polite about it.
NuggzTheNinja wrote: For outdoorsy women, shooting or fishing both work really well.
No can do. I am really, really not into killing stuff. And not even into piercing the palate of fishes with a big metal hook, putting them out of the water where they cannot breathe and start to panic, and then putting them back in the water with a pierced palate.
If I am going for outdoor activities, and am in Grenoble, I will certainly choose Via Ferrata. It is quite like a mix between climbing and trekking. Pretty much almost anyone can do it, you will get to move around quite a bit, get nice sights. The way the Via Ferrata here is done, you can very easily adapt what you do to the level of people you are doing it with. It is also very easy to go there (5 minutes from my place), it is always open, and it is free. No need to rent gear, I have enough for two people. The only thing is that it requires a good, or at least okay, weather, so you cannot do it any day.
Cheesecat wrote: Yeah, I agree that 30 somethings would probably be the best for advice but obviously "endless" knows better than all of us. Also I thought this thread was supposed to be a form of collected knowledge it's not like this is just an opinion piece by one poster.
Exactly, bruv. This thread isn't about me. I just wanted to get the ball rolling. I think you're right on the 30 something point too - most single 30 somethings I know are hardcore daters. I put it down to a couple of factors: Your slightly advanced age means that you're slightly more picky than you would be in your twenties, and don't just go for the first half-decent looking perdon who shows interest. Also, you probably tend to have (some) money, so you can afford to go to nicer restaurants/bars or do activities more often. You're also a bit more secure in yourself, having been around the block a few times. Again, all of this is just my take on it, people are of course free to disagree.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Got a date tonight, incidentally.
Glaiceana wrote: I agree with the action date idea Easy E. Something like lazer quest (lazer tag), or paint balling would be awesome in my opinion xD
I do not know if laser quest/tag/game works the same way in UK/US and in France, but here it would definitely not work for a date, because you need to be at the very least 6 to play a game.
And that is pretty much what I do almost every time I do something with a girl : even when we end up doing it just the two of us, I almost always said something like “maybe nameoffriend will join us” or something to that effect. Hence, not date .
NuggzTheNinja wrote: For outdoorsy women, shooting or fishing both work really well.
No can do. I am really, really not into killing stuff. And not even into piercing the palate of fishes with a big metal hook, putting them out of the water where they cannot breathe and start to panic, and then putting them back in the water with a pierced palate.
If I am going for outdoor activities, and am in Grenoble, I will certainly choose Via Ferrata. It is quite like a mix between climbing and trekking. Pretty much almost anyone can do it, you will get to move around quite a bit, get nice sights. The way the Via Ferrata here is done, you can very easily adapt what you do to the level of people you are doing it with. It is also very easy to go there (5 minutes from my place), it is always open, and it is free. No need to rent gear, I have enough for two people. The only thing is that it requires a good, or at least okay, weather, so you cannot do it any day.
Well in the UK quite a few adults do Laser Quest, its not just for kids Although I'm sure paintballing is more of an adult thing, probably in France as well xD
As for the fishing, I guess that's true if you're squeamish it wouldn't be something you'd enjoy. I've been fishing lots of times, never killed the fish, always put them back. You have to remember that their gums are mostly cartilage and rubber type stuff, they don't even bleed when they get hooked, so its not as cruel as you think.
The Via Ferrata thing you mentioned does seem like a good activity too!
When it comes to what to do on a date it really depends on the people involved. As HSoO said he is squeamish so should avoid those sorts of activities but the same goes for taking someone who is fussy with food to a nice restaurant. It really comes down to knowing what both people want out of the date, which is one of the things that makes first dates so infamously hit and miss.
If you know your date through friends it doesn't hurt to do a little research beforehand to get a rough idea of what they might like to do. Even if you have no mutual friends it can't hurt to give them a few options rather than jumping straight to "you, me, dinner, friday".
Glaiceana wrote: Well in the UK quite a few adults do Laser Quest, its not just for kids
Here too. I would gladly do that, and I am sure I would find plenty of people who would be enthusiastic too. I guess what I wrote was ambiguous : I did not meant you had to be 6 years old, I meant you have to be 6 peoples rather than just two !
If you go as a couple, you will spend most of your time searching each other through the labyrinth, and then when you finally find each other, it will require a lot of fair-play to let the other flee after having shot him/her to keep the game at least a bit interesting.
When working as teams of 3 people, it is much better !
Glaiceana wrote: As for the fishing, I guess that's true if you're squeamish it wouldn't be something you'd enjoy.
It is not about being squeamish. I do not eat meat for the very same reason, and yet I have never felt sick at the sight of an hamburger. It is really a conscious decision.
Glaiceana wrote: You have to remember that their gums are mostly cartilage and rubber type stuff, they don't even bleed when they get hooked, so its not as cruel as you think.
Okay, I hope so.
Glaiceana wrote: The Via Ferrata thing you mentioned does seem like a good activity too!
Hey Glaiceana, do you want to try Via Ferrata with me next week-end ?
Hehe. This thread got Glaiceana asked out three times!
My date last night went stupendously well. The girl was really nice, funny and attractive and we spent the whole night laughing. Topics included everything from 'the first time you saw a corpse' to fisting. Lots of fun and gin. I think I'll see her again. She was over a foot shorter than me though, which might take some getting used to.
Albatross wrote: Hehe. This thread got Glaiceana asked out three times!
My date last night went stupendously well. The girl was really nice, funny and attractive and we spent the whole night laughing. Topics included everything from 'the first time you saw a corpse' to fisting. Lots of fun and gin. I think I'll see her again. She was over a foot shorter than me though, which might take some getting used to.
I tend to like the shorter girls, they make convenient arm rests
But seriously, I need some more advice... is there any way to err... better discern a young ladies age? I met a really cool girl at the Devils game I was at saturday night, we really hit it off... then as I was about to ask her number, etc. I figured out she was still in high school... story of my goddamned life.
Albatross wrote: Hehe. This thread got Glaiceana asked out three times!
But how many of them were serious?
(Depending on how serious the answer was, mine may or may not have been. ) ((Then again, the West Mids are an awfully long way to go for someone without a car and place to crash until the next train back. ¬.¬))
(((I think I'll just go back to looking around my local area and staring unblinkingly at anyone I find attractive until they get up and leave - that seems to work for me right now.)))
chaos0xomega wrote: "Hey I need your help, which beer is better, the Pilsner or the Lager?"
"I don't know, why don't you ask the bartender?"
hmmm... doesn't seem like its all that great...
Then she wasn't interested in you! It's not the question, it's you (or her, depending on how you look at it).
Ask her something relevant to her interests.
"Which do you think is a more reasonable ally for my Space Marines? Imperial Guard or Tyrranids?"
"I don't think..."
"Wrong! Trick question! Tyrranids can't ally with anything! Man, and you thought I'd give you my number?"
"Uh..."
Kronk says "Leave them speechless!"
Hahahaha! This is brilliant. I'm not sure even I dare use that! I also like Will Smith's 'hey shorty, put your number on this paper right quick before i change my mind...', but I haven't had the balls to use that either!
Yeah, the 'which is better' is a good one, I reckon. Other than that, just try to catch her eye. I she meets your gaze, smile quickly. If she smiles back say 'hi'. To be honest, cold approaches are tricky. A lot depends on looks, which can be daunting, as the rejection is immediate and visceral, especially if you're not very secure in how you look. Just relax and have fun, and try not to take it too personally if she's not interested. You might just not be her type. It's no big deal. I'm sure you have physical things that you find attractive and unattractive, right?
chaos0xomega wrote: "Hey I need your help, which beer is better, the Pilsner or the Lager?"
"I don't know, why don't you ask the bartender?"
hmmm... doesn't seem like its all that great...
Well, people tend to respond well when you ask them for help. People want to help. It makes them feel important.
Here is what Dale Carnegie, the guy who wrote How to Win Friends and Influence People had to say about getting people to like you....
Six ways to make people like you
1. Become genuinely interested in other people.
2. Smile.
3. Remember that a person's name is to that person the sweetest and most important sound in any language.
4. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves.
5. Talk in terms of the other person's interests.
6. Make the other person feel important - and do it sincerely.
So the "Which is better?" approach hits point 1, 4, 6, and probably leads into point 5 really quickly. I am hoping you are doing point 2 anyway.
If we're ever on a date, please try not to use it unless it's to catch my attention (for example, if I'm about to get run over by a bus); I much prefer the use of eye-contact and body language to indicate that you're speaking to me.
Try and remember their name! I'm terrible with names, especially when drunk. Asking their name 3 times is not a good start, Especially when you've repeated it at least once.
The name game thing can have a varying impact depending on tone of voice and relation to the person. One of my exes would only ever use it disapprovingly, and the way she said it dripped acid and venom, it would pretty much shatter my psyche any time she used it and leave me a babbling wreck (but thats also because she had manipulated me and twisted me around her finger so well that I was a wreck anyway), another girl I dated would say it though and the hair on the back of my neck would stand on end and my spine would tingle (in a good way).
Yeah I agree about the name thing, it depends on how its used. I'm not usually that keen on hearing my full name, the nickname version (Sam) is preferred lol. But I guess it does depend on the tone.
I just have some sort of innate hatred of hearing my name, which is then affected by the tone etc. as normal. It's like starting with a +10 to Name Hatred stat whereas everyone else starts with a neutral +0.
My full name is a no-go, though. 'Christopher' is far too formal and usual precedes something bad or negative.
All that said, reading my name is fine.
I'm also not a fan of hearing my own voice, which has made editing my youtube videos a bit of a pain - having to listen to me saying the same stuff over... and over... and over... and over... *shudders*.
I just have some sort of innate hatred of hearing my name, which is then affected by the tone etc. as normal. It's like starting with a +10 to Name Hatred stat whereas everyone else starts with a neutral +0.
My full name is a no-go, though. 'Christopher' is far too formal and usual precedes something bad or negative.
All that said, reading my name is fine.
I'm also not a fan of hearing my own voice, which has made editing my youtube videos a bit of a pain - having to listen to me saying the same stuff over... and over... and over... and over... *shudders*.
As a fellow Chris/Christopher I can relate entirely my friend (also about the voice, its weird hearing your own voice on a recording), most of my friends (and even casual acquaintances) refer to me by my last name, so hearing my first name is weird, though if the person in question is female, then I'm all for it.
As a fellow Chris/Christopher I can relate entirely my friend (also about the voice, its weird hearing your own voice on a recording), most of my friends (and even casual acquaintances) refer to me by my last name, so hearing my first name is weird, though if the person in question is female, then I'm all for it.
Despite not being a Chris, this is pretty much true of me. I'm known pretty much entirely by my surname.
Hell, it's even become a forum name!
Also - I did my homework at the weekend; and if I can do it then I'm damned sure the rest of you lot can too!
Interesting stuff guys! I think this really would have helped me out when I was younger. Here are my 2 cents.
1) Confidence is key. Without confidence you are awkward and no girl likes awkward. One of the first dates I went on was with this gorgeous amazing blonde who was way too hot for me. I kept asking her the whole night if she was having fun. Turns out she would have had I just not freaked out on her all night. But we learn and move on.
2) Find a girl/guy who does what you like. The most successful relationships/dates I have ever had were with women that i shared a common interest with. So decide, do you like to go hiking? Do you like video games? Board games are cool right? Whatever, find something fun you can do together. I had a subscription to the Official Playstation Magazine in the early 2000s. They had a segment in there that highlighted couples who played video games, the title was "Those who play together, stay together." Words to live by.
3) Go for it! Sack up, just do it already!!! See that hot girl in class or at the bar or at work? Just go talk to her. Know that you are interesting and that you have worth to provide to her. Tell her that you think she is pretty (I personally hate that stuck up pick up game stuff) and ask if it would be cool if you walked her to her next class or if you could buy her a drink while you chatted about how happy you are that Macklemore won all sorts of Grammys this year (or something that is a "safe" topic interesting to you and maybe her). If you can make it through without a hitch, just go ahead and ask her out on a date (if that's what you want) or another drink if you are at a bar.
4) You can say no. As a guy who had a lot of trouble dating when I was younger, every time I saw a girl that was remotely interested in me I fell head over heels. This is beside the fact that I found many of them unattractive (personally, physically, sexually, etc). If you have invested time in someone and you aren't happy. Then get out. Be picky guys/gals. You will thank me for it later.
As a fellow Chris/Christopher I can relate entirely my friend (also about the voice, its weird hearing your own voice on a recording), most of my friends (and even casual acquaintances) refer to me by my last name, so hearing my first name is weird, though if the person in question is female, then I'm all for it.
Despite not being a Chris, this is pretty much true of me. I'm known pretty much entirely by my surname.
Hell, it's even become a forum name!
Also - I did my homework at the weekend; and if I can do it then I'm damned sure the rest of you lot can too!
As a fellow Chris/Christopher I can relate entirely my friend (also about the voice, its weird hearing your own voice on a recording), most of my friends (and even casual acquaintances) refer to me by my last name, so hearing my first name is weird, though if the person in question is female, then I'm all for it.
Despite not being a Chris, this is pretty much true of me. I'm known pretty much entirely by my surname.
Hell, it's even become a forum name!
Also - I did my homework at the weekend; and if I can do it then I'm damned sure the rest of you lot can too!
As a fellow Chris/Christopher I can relate entirely my friend (also about the voice, its weird hearing your own voice on a recording), most of my friends (and even casual acquaintances) refer to me by my last name, so hearing my first name is weird, though if the person in question is female, then I'm all for it.
Despite not being a Chris, this is pretty much true of me. I'm known pretty much entirely by my surname.
Hell, it's even become a forum name!
Also - I did my homework at the weekend; and if I can do it then I'm damned sure the rest of you lot can too!
Yes, mate!
How did it go?
Pretty well I think
Amusingly; we met on Tinder
We're gonna need moar details before I can give you your grade!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Tinder is mega. There is absolutely no reason not to be on it if you're single. Had a few dates off there and got a few more lined up. TONS of beautiful girls on there.
Well, not serious enough to go to another country, but if by chance we ever happen to be in the same neighborhood, I would totally go do some Via Ferrata with her.
Yes. That is THE HORROR ! I hate hearing my voice a lot. Also, as an unrelated note, my voice is definitely very feminine : at least one out of ten people that have never seen me before and hear me on the phone thinks I am a woman.
Albatross wrote: I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Tinder is mega. There is absolutely no reason not to be on it if you're single.
Well, there is one : I have no smartphone.
So, today I was eating lunch with my supervisor and a few other member from the team, and then some colleague comes with a new, very nice girl. After a while (because we were not seated close), I started chatting with her, asking her name, what she does (she is a PhD student too), joked on how we both wear hats, and then… well, of course, I did not do my homework .
.
Well, maybe I will see her again. Not so sure though, she splits her time between three labs, and she had already been doing her PhD for more than one year, it was the first time I met her.
Anyhow, she is working in computer science too. That means she spent most of her time surrounded mostly by boys. What are the chances she is still single ? Practically none .
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Well, maybe I will see her again. Not so sure though, she splits her time between three labs, and she had already been doing her PhD for more than one year, it was the first time I met her.
Anyhow, she is working in computer science too. That means she spent most of her time surrounded mostly by boys. What are the chances she is still single ? Practically none .
Listen to yourself! Just stop! You are your own worst enemy when you think this way.
This is known in the sales business as "Pre-qualifying". Essentially, you talk yourself out of the sale before you even try. Remember, the number one reason people fail to get a date is because they NEVER ASK. Don't be that guy!
Get out of your head, and just ask. Try something like, "Huh, I would love to hear more about your work. Let's get together for coffee and you can tell me more. What works better Wednesday or Thursday after work?"*
* Note= I would not call this a date. This is simply establishing some sort of connection that could lead to a real date. However, that is still a lot further than you are right now.
Easy E wrote: Listen to yourself! Just stop! You are your own worst enemy when you think this way.
That only came as an afterthought. I certainly did not think “Hey, let me not ask her to meet again because she likely already has a boyfriend.” I forced myself to overcome my shyness/self-deprecation enough to initiate a conversation, but not enough to ask her to meet again.
Anyway, last time I managed to ask a girl from the lab to meet together, even though she did have a boyfriend, we still became friends, so that is totally not any excuse for not proposing a later meeting.
Easy E wrote: Try something like, "Huh, I would love to hear more about your work. Let's get together for coffee and you can tell me more. What works better Wednesday or Thursday after work?"*
Yeah, that is what I should do, and maybe what I would have done if we had had more time to chat. And maybe what I will do if we meet again.
Easy E wrote: Listen to yourself! Just stop! You are your own worst enemy when you think this way.
That only came as an afterthought. I certainly did not think “Hey, let me not ask her to meet again because she likely already has a boyfriend.” I forced myself to overcome my shyness/self-deprecation enough to initiate a conversation, but not enough to ask her to meet again.
Anyway, last time I managed to ask a girl from the lab to meet together, even though she did have a boyfriend, we still became friends, so that is totally not any excuse for not proposing a later meeting.
Easy E wrote: Try something like, "Huh, I would love to hear more about your work. Let's get together for coffee and you can tell me more. What works better Wednesday or Thursday after work?"*
Yeah, that is what I should do, and maybe what I would have done if we had had more time to chat. And maybe what I will do if we meet again.
Cool! Sounds to me like you're making a little progress on the confidence front, which is brilliant. I would echo what E said about not talking yourself out of asking this person out, but I would add that it sounded like it took a lot of balls for you to do what you did, so take encouragement from that, and from the fact that you seemed to establish something of a rapport with her. It's all positive stuff. Stay positive. Although you didn't technically complete your homework, you still get a 'C' for effort. Build on this and keep making progress!
Automatically Appended Next Post: p.s. Next time you talk to her it might be worth asking her about her work, getting into deep conversation about it then making an excuse to dash off - a pressing engagement or something. That sets you up nicely for '...but let's pick up this conversation later on, over coffee - how does [insert day] work for you?'.
If my rugged good looks and sparkling wit don't win her over, I just drop some dashing lines and claim her heart.
Your father must be a drug dealer, cuz you dope!
Can I have directions?… to your heart?
You’ve got the whitest teeth I have ever seen!
Can I buy you a drink, or do you just want the money?
Are you Sweadish? cuz you’re the sweetish girl I’ve met!
If I followed you home, would you keep me?
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: If my rugged good looks and sparkling wit don't win her over, I just drop some dashing lines and claim her heart.
Your father must be a drug dealer, cuz you dope!
Can I have directions?… to your heart?
You’ve got the whitest teeth I have ever seen!
Can I buy you a drink, or do you just want the money?
Are you Sweadish? cuz you’re the sweetish girl I’ve met!
If I followed you home, would you keep me?
Pick up lines may be the worst way to introduce yourself.
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: If my rugged good looks and sparkling wit don't win her over, I just drop some dashing lines and claim her heart.
Your father must be a drug dealer, cuz you dope!
Can I have directions?… to your heart?
You’ve got the whitest teeth I have ever seen!
Can I buy you a drink, or do you just want the money?
Are you Sweadish? cuz you’re the sweetish girl I’ve met!
If I followed you home, would you keep me?
You haven't included the best one ever.
How do you like your eggs in the morning? Fertilized?
I mean taking the piss out of guys that have used pick up lines on her and talking about what pick up lines you've heard is a good, lighthearted way to fill a conversation.
Corpsesarefun wrote: I mean taking the piss out of guys that have used pick up lines on her and talking about what pick up lines you've heard is a good, lighthearted way to fill a conversation.
I have no problem talking about how gakky pick up lines are either but to use them and to be genuine about it I don't see that working too often unless you're like an amazing person.
On the name thing, my girlfriend hates her name because it's unusual, old fashioned and everyone always mispronounces it. I've always called her by various nicknames. The real name only gets used in times of dire import. She also only refers to me by nicknames. Most of which are mildly embarassing (Penguin and Hobbit are her two favourites).
I'd like to add some input in the form of an anecdote;
A man dies horribly in a freak accident. He goes up to heaven, and there is god.
God; Oops, sorry about that. I was busy checking on the oven. So, because of that excruciating death you had to endure, I will grant you one wish, than return you unharmed. The wish can be anything you want.
Man; Well I have always wanted to go to Hawaii, but I hate flying. Can you make a highway to Hawaii?
God; That is ridiculous! Think of something else.
Man; hmm... I would like to be able to have a vague understanding of women.
God; So, how many lanes do you want the highway to be?
Now, she could have gotten all coy, or even offended, but instead she laughed and we ended up have a really nice conversation, during which she stood really close to me (proximity is a great indicator, more on that later) and gave off all sorts of positive signals.
.
. Thucydides had it right “Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.”
s who can't stand the fact that the woman they're interested in doesn't want to sleep with them.
.
. I have eyes to see, and it is not like that for everyone, far from it.
.
. Mostly black clothes, very few colors, for instance.
?
) 
