Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) - Forum

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Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/05 05:16:02

Post by: mbutler132000

I just wanted to see if anyone here on the forum has worked with this company. In January I traded Sean, the owner, a number of models for commission work. When I originally asked, and re-verified before I sent the models, I was told it would take 3 weeks for the commission to be completed. This seemed like a very fast turn around considering what I was sending him so I was not surprised when it became obvious the deadline would not be met. Here is the summary of the conversations we had.

Between the 12/26/2013 and 01/05/2014 I received a total of 24 emails from Sean about a possible trade. Often I received multiple emails per day. He came across as a responsible business owner. We agreed on an amount I would pay for the commission work taking into account the numerous models I would trade him.

1/16/2014 - I receive a message that the models arrived. There was a $72 customs fee that I reimbursed Sean for, as I did not feel it was right for him to have to pay this.

1/22/2014 - Received a message that Sean was trying to finish a job for one other client and he would get to my models after this.

2/05/2014 - Was told by Sean he would have some pictures sent to me on how the models were coming along

2/09/2014 - Sent Sean an email about a tournament I had coming up and was checking in to see if the models would be completed in time.

2/14/2014 - Received an email from Sean stating he thought they would be finished by then.

I sent numerous email asking for an update as I never received any pictures.

2/28/2014 - Received an email stating they were having internet problems and he would send over the pictures and upload videos to the YouTube channel.

Again I never saw anything and sent numerous emails requesting some sore of an update.

3/14/2014 - Received an email basically saying the exact same thing as the last one. They were having internet issues and he would send over the pics soon.

You can link to the Youtube page here
https://www.youtube.com/user/BattlegroundsWG/videos

Between 2/05/2014 and 3/17/2014 Sean uploaded 22 videos, none of which had any of the models I sent him. After being ignored for weeks I was finally able to get a hold of Sean through Twitter. And once again I was given the same story. The internet is messed up and he will send over the pics. This was on 03/24/2014, and I have never heard anything since then.

The company Sean runs had a special going on where you could pay $500 and get $1000 worth of service. Between the original transaction and the additional money I paid to have the customs fees reimbursed I was close to this number so I offered to jump in on the deal. They of course accepted and I sent over the remaining money. Once I realized either Sean's company is either incapable or unwilling to honor their end of the deal I requested a refund of the extra money I paid to get in of the special offer, I still wanted to pay for the commission as well as the customs fee.

I am hoping this is resolved soon, but I am at a bit of a loss with this whole ordeal. I have tried to use people before who just posted on the Forum that they would do commission work and never had any luck. This time I decided that I would go through a company as I presumed this would be safer and have someone who cared about the service they give their customers. So far this has been at least as bad if not the worst experience I have had. I could not possibly recommend this company to anyone at this point.

If anyone else has worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming and has any advice on how to get responses from them I would greatly appreciate the help.

If there are any changes to this situation I will try to update this thread.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/05 17:24:23

Post by: twinner

I am sorry to say this but you can consider your models and your money gone.

I live in Ontario and when heard of this company I hopped right on it. Originally he said my commission of ONE tank would take two weeks, which I considered very reasonable. I sent him the tank and the money, this was in Janurary. He has since stopped contacting me, and will not respond to my calls or texts.

Now that is just one tank, my brother on the other hand sent him a fairly large space wolf detachment to have painted up. Not only that but over $600 worth of High Elves as payment. My brother also put in over 40 hours of work for Sean developing all those fancy spreadsheets he has, which my brother was promised payment for. Last month my brother was getting frustrated and asked he return the models, both the space wolves and the high elves. He said he would, when we got the package it was only the space wolves, might I add that only had the base coat done, when Sean said he was sending finished models back. When my brother asked about the high elves he said they were sold, and he wouldn't give a refund. In his words he didn't offer refunds for trade-ins.

This was very unprofessional and I have all his contact information for any who wants it. Below I will post a very lengthy facebook message feed between him and I. Please note it is long, sorry about the spelling errors. let me know if I missed any personal information. My brother and I have since gave up and cut out losses, but be warned.

Spoiler:

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/05 21:18:02

Post by: orkybenji

What's with all the dirtbags in wargaming?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/05 22:01:56

Post by: motyak

From memory he was on dakka posting a while ago, and he seemed pretty sketchy from the get go

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/05 22:04:31

Post by: filbert

I hate to say it but guys, caveat emptor. Don't just throw your money at shinies, do a bit of research and due diligence.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/05 22:28:32

Post by: mbutler132000

Well hopefully anyone else on this forum thinking of doing business with him will read this first.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/05 23:36:05

Post by: Relapse

orkybenji wrote:
What's with all the dirtbags in wargaming?

My question is why don't the people these guys cheat get together, put all the cost of money and miniatures that have been bilked into a huge case and turn it over to the tender mercies of the courts. One person might have a small claims case. Many together could maybe have a felony fraud thing going.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/06 13:29:47

Post by: Leo_the_Rat

You may want to contact his sponsors and let them know what's going on. There's no sense in them having their names associated with him.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/06 17:32:58

Post by: mbutler132000

I figured that is what this post would do. The moderator commented so the guys who run Dakka must know about this person. Twinner did Sean ever try to tell you his Internet was down. That is the excuse I have been getting for the past two months. I don't want to say it's untrue, but it is a little hard to believe a businesses Internet could go down for two months and never be fixed. As a small business owner I can say that if this happened to me I would be intent on getting this fixed before this much time passed.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/06 17:38:32

Post by: alarmingrick

mbutler132000 wrote:
I figured that is what this post would do. The moderator commented so the guys who run Dakka must know about this person. Twinner did Sean ever try to tell you his Internet was down. That is the excuse I have been getting for the past two months. I don't want to say it's untrue, but it is a little hard to believe a businesses Internet could go down for two months and never be fixed. As a small business owner I can say that if this happened to me I would be intent on getting this fixed before this much time passed.

He's lied/misled about so much already that I'm sure the Interwbes being broken is probably also BS. I wonder if he's got Mandelbaum blood in him? He sounds like he could be a cousin....

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/06 18:33:34

Post by: twinner

mbutler132000 wrote:
I figured that is what this post would do. The moderator commented so the guys who run Dakka must know about this person. Twinner did Sean ever try to tell you his Internet was down. That is the excuse I have been getting for the past two months. I don't want to say it's untrue, but it is a little hard to believe a businesses Internet could go down for two months and never be fixed. As a small business owner I can say that if this happened to me I would be intent on getting this fixed before this much time passed.

According to my facebook messages, he can't afford real internet so uses his phone for internet.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/06 19:35:15

Post by: mbutler132000

Twinner what number did you call to get a hold of him. The number on his website 1-855-712-1447 says it cannot be completed as dialed.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/07 12:55:37

Post by: porkuslime

You have a last name for Sean?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/07 13:22:52

Post by: twinner

Sean Duncan

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I received this message this morning from Sean,

"my cell is screwed up I can't contact anyone easily"

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/07 16:56:18

Post by: the shrouded lord

Wow, this guy sounds like an ass hat. Some one needs to tell the sponsors ASAP.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/09 21:24:00

Post by: Darth Bob

His constant excuses for not giving a legitimate answer to your simple questions is indicative that he has no intention of resolving the issue. Has anyone contacted his sponsors?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/09 22:06:34

Post by: twinner

Darth Bob wrote:
His constant excuses for not giving a legitimate answer to your simple questions is indicative that he has no intention of resolving the issue. Has anyone contacted his sponsors?

I just sent an e-mail to all three.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/09 22:30:06

Post by: mbutler132000

Sorry, I don't do a whole lot on this site other than trades. Not sure what is meant by sponsor. Also, in our last conversation he said he was working on my models now. I informed him I would let everyone here know what happens from here on in. That way he will either be down to follow through on his deal, allbeit very tardy, or will be shown to be a business to avoid. I believe this is the most fair way to do it.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/10 19:59:06

Post by: tdub415

I have also had dealings with Sean. I shipped him my models back and they were received 9/5/13. I have still yet to see any proof positive that any work has been done on my commission, which was paid in full. I will follow this thread and update with any changes/updates to the status.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/17 02:37:24

Post by: mbutler132000

Quick update on this one. I've tried to contact this person via Twitter and email and received no response as of yet.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/17 06:20:16

Post by: twinner

I have been messaging one of his sponsors. He has removed the list of sponsors from his sites. Here is the last message I received from the sponsor I have been messaging. This is the FLGS he frequents.

He mentioned his internet is down and asked me how to respond. I offered to have him come to the store and use the internet here and to do whatever the customer wants to MAKE IT RIGHT! Awaiting his response. While awaiting his response another of his customers' called me with a similar issue. I asked him to remove us from his website, he has done this but has yet to respond. I'll let you know should he do so. Best regards; David

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/19 03:28:51

Post by: mbutler132000

Update to a conversation I had with the owner of Battlefield Wargamming

Last time I heard from Sean was 04/05/2014

Via Twitter
Today
5:06 PM Me: As I understand it you are now able to use the Internet at a LGS. So I presume I will receive an update soon.

5:13 PM Sean: What's an LGS

5:28 PM Me: Local gaming store. One of the guys from the forum said he spoke with a sponsor of yours and was told this.

5:31 PM Sean: Well unfortunately they are not my partner anymore. I believe he said you called him. Which is what did it

5:32 PM Sean: Not a big deal I was planning on ending it soon anyway due to a move but still

5:33 PM Me: Wasn't me that called. You said two weeks ago you were just about finished with my models. Are they ready?

6:25 PM Me: Can I get an answer?

It is now 10:28PM here and I have heard nothing.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/22 09:38:02

Post by: reds8n

I've had to delete a few posts, we do not allow or permit threats of harm to be made on Dakka.

Please refrain, even in jest, from posting such.

Let's hope there is a satisfactory conclusion for everyone sooner rather than later.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/22 15:04:31

Post by: Sigvatr

Has anyone tried pressing legal charges on him yet? Sounds like a classic fraud to me.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/22 15:11:09

Post by: notprop

Sigvatr wrote:
Has anyone tried pressing legal charges on him yet? Sounds like a classic freud to me.

Him as well eh?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/25 04:16:04

Post by: mbutler132000

My latest email sent on 4/24/14. Have not heard from him sine 4/6/14.

"This is becoming more and more obvious you have no intentions of doing the work I paid for. I would like for you to return models I sent, all of them, as well as the money I paid. You tell me you are a legitimate business yet you have done nothing legitimate since we started this whole deal. Neither I nor any of your other paying customers can do anything about your internet problems, that's an issue you need to learn to fix on your own if you want to own a business. My client don't care if I have issues that hinder me from doing the work they paid for, they just want the work done and I find a way to do it. Nothing you have told me has been true. You have missed half a dozen deadlines you set up, I've never received a valid update on any work you claim you have completed, and your communications is a joke. You want my advice, find as place with Wi-Fi, I don't care if it is a coffee shop or donut shop or whatever. Go there everyday and respond to the customers who have entrusted you with their money and product. I made that post on Dakka and instead of being a good business person and seeing it as an opportunity to show potential customers you can deal with adversity in your business you just complain about you have lost money over it. Clearly you are not capable of completing the work you have taken on this far and so you should not be getting any new customers. If you were so concerned with your reputation you should have made things right with the customers you mislead, the fact you did not but just continued to whine about how everything is hard for you just proves you do not care about this business and are unable to run it. I will post this email on Dakka as I said I would post all communications between you and I from now on. If you actually think you have any defense in this matter you can respond to this email or on Dakka. If you respond to this email I will post any response on the forum. Hopefully not too many more people will actually pay to have work completed by your business."

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/25 13:30:51

Post by: twinner

I have finally decided it is a lost cause. Next time I am in Toronto (3 hours away), I might try and meet him face to face, nothing threatening, hopefully I could inspire him to release the models back to their owners. The sad part is, is he had the skill to be a successful business. He had a beautiful websites, he had everything going for him. What a waste.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/25 14:26:02

Post by: mbutler132000

That is the one reason I don't think the intentions of him were to steal the models and money in the first place. Don't really see someone going through that much work on a website, business, example models just to screw a few people out of their miniatures. I think it is now a case of someone who has no idea how to run a business started something up they thought would be fun and is in way over their head. I'm not going to just let it go though, otherwise I will have to just write off the fact he had taken a significant amount of money from me. Hopefully it will just become so annoying he decides is not worth it.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/28 03:01:44

Post by: mbutler132000

Looks like his website has been taken down.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/28 04:07:13

Post by: alarmingrick

mbutler132000 wrote:
That is the one reason I don't think the intentions of him were to steal the models and money in the first place. Don't really see someone going through that much work on a website, business, example models just to screw a few people out of their miniatures. I think it is now a case of someone who has no idea how to run a business started something up they thought would be fun and is in way over their head. I'm not going to just let it go though, otherwise I will have to just write off the fact he had taken a significant amount of money from me. Hopefully it will just become so annoying he decides is not worth it.

Daniel Mandelbaum would disagree.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/28 04:11:46

Post by: mbutler132000

I'm not sure who that is.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/28 04:20:37

Post by: alarmingrick

mbutler132000 wrote:
I'm not sure who that is.

wait until the search fearture has been fixed, pop some popcorn and read a few hours of what you search result produces when you search that name. I seriously was thinking your guy was DM's Canadian cousin.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/28 17:42:45

Post by: mbutler132000

Sent a message to Sean via Facebook and received an answer.

Me: I have seen your website has been taken down and you are not answering my Twitter messages or my emails. Can I get an answer as to whether or not you are going to return my models and money?

Sean: Nono it's just under a diff domain the normal one is renewing.
I'll have an update shortly this I yer et problem is coming to and end finally
Internet*

Me: Ok so you received my last email?

Have not received an answer yet.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/28 17:47:09

Post by: twinner

I hope I get my razorback back, and you get your army back. Hopefully he just has horrible customer service compared to being a thief.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/04/29 23:47:59

Post by: kb_lock

alarmingrick wrote:
mbutler132000 wrote:
I'm not sure who that is.

wait until the search fearture has been fixed, pop some popcorn and read a few hours of what you search result produces when you search that name. I seriously was thinking your guy was DM's Canadian cousin.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Daniel+Mandelbaum+site%3Awww.dakkadakka.com&l=1

For those interested

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/03 04:26:50

Post by: mbutler132000

Sean finally wrote me back via Twitter.

Sean - I have to look at your bill to work everything out. Refresh myself on the specifics

Me - I am looking for a refund of the money I have paid thus far unless you can prove the models are being worked on or finished. These should be finished as you assured me it would be no more than three weeks and that time was up months ago. I would like full refund on the money I paid in for the special you had running, the total is in the emails I sent you I would also like the models I sent returned to me. If the High Elves have been painted to the standard you set forth I will pay for them If not I want a refund of the full $500 I have paid in as well as the High Elves and the other models I sent over, as this will mean you did not keep up your end of the agreement.

I will also mention to him those members on this forum who have brought up the fact he did not keep up his end of the deal with them.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/03 07:08:02

Post by: Scipio Africanus

Does it seem to anyone, that he could just steal your money without stealing your toys too? It is a solid kick to the groin that he takes both.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/03 09:25:35

Post by: kb_lock

If you are going to be a jerk, why not be a total jerk?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/03 10:32:47

Post by: Sidstyler

Well, it's not like the law is going to do anything about it. As far as I know people have actually tried before, and even though it's an adult blatantly stealing another adult's property (and in most cases their money as well), the cops still view miniatures as literally toys and aren't really willing to treat it like "real" theft, even when in Mandelbaum's case there's literally hours worth of reading and evidence to go with the claims, with thousands of dollars worth of product or services unaccounted for, and his real name and physical address available to go with it all. It might as well be a child telling on another child for stealing his ice cream cone for all the feths they'll give. They'll probably tell you they'll look into it while fighting back a smile, then crack up laughing as soon as you're gone and not do jack gak after the fact, instead joking with their buddies about the awkward man-child that came in to report his My Little Pony dolls being stolen.

It's essentially a crime with no punishment, except maybe in the rarest of circumstances. It's why Mandelbaum has gotten away with it for literally years, possibly still continues to this day, and undoubtedly why the hobby seems to attract so many others like him. Wargamers are easy targets and have no way to fight back or seek restitution, and any attempt to do so will fail because no one takes it seriously.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/03 11:37:56

Post by: Byte

Could mail fraud play into this? I put in a complaint with the USPS and local PD before with some paintball stuff(not even $100 worth) and the local PD in Hawaii went to dudes house. Got my stuff in two shakes of a lambs tail.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/03 12:39:32

Post by: dantay_xv

Take a look at this thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/523737.page

Its slightly old but it may be of use. Maybe speak via pm to some of the guys who were involved.

Btw if you file for it, they are not miniatures or models, call them collectibles and you'll be taken far more seriously.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/03 19:55:25

Post by: Byte

dantay_xv wrote:
Take a look at this thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/523737.page

Its slightly old but it may be of use. Maybe speak via pm to some of the guys who were involved.

Btw if you file for it, they are not miniatures or models, call them collectibles and you'll be taken far more seriously.

Yep, see my post above. Worked out the same for me. That's why I'm always puzzled on why folks don't pursue criminal action more aggressively.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/03 21:42:31

Post by: alarmingrick

Byte wrote:
dantay_xv wrote:
Take a look at this thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/523737.page

Its slightly old but it may be of use. Maybe speak via pm to some of the guys who were involved.

Btw if you file for it, they are not miniatures or models, call them collectibles and you'll be taken far more seriously.

Yep, see my post above. Worked out the same for me. That's why I'm always puzzled on why folks don't pursue criminal action more aggressively.

I think it may come down to actual local PDs and public officials. I contacted both the local police and DA's office in Daniel Mandelbaum's area and was told in didn't matter vebally and via form letters. When he was nonstop calling my house I called my local PD. The oficer came out, filed a report and suggested I stay off "the Dakka". It's atitudes like that that make it feel almost if they're aiding and abetting people like him through indifference.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/03 21:54:27

Post by: Byte

Tell you what, money is money and mail/wire fraud is fraud. Paying for services and products not rendered is a crime. It sucks that didn't work for you, but god help the idiot that tries to take kitty food money from this house!

I've filed a claim with one of my actual credit card companies for services not rendered in the past, the credit card company reimbursed me and sued the individual (~$900). My paypal is associated with one of my cards, I always have that bullet in my belt.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/04 00:37:54

Post by: twinner

For myself since it was only $40 and a razorback I lost it would not be worth going to the pd: but I will suggest it to my brother

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/04 18:50:57

Post by: mbutler132000

Sean had agreed to give me a refund on the additional money I paid in on the deal he had going. Once I have received this I will post that fact as well as what the plan will be for going forward.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/11 15:59:27

Post by: twinner

Any updates?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/12 08:46:00

Post by: master of ordinance

This sounds like a Mandelbaum. Good luck.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/13 01:34:01

Post by: mbutler132000

No update as of yet. I will say it appears his website is back up. I'm not saying that's evidence he will follow through.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/13 04:29:10

Post by: twinner

Well he must have internet, he has just blocked me from replying to any of his posts or messaging him, all i asked is if I would ever see my model. Which leads me to two conclusions, #1 I am not getting my model back, and #2 he is still wanting to get new "customers" so be careful, it would also be awesome if some people could comment on some of the photos,and start putting pressure.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/Battlegroundswargaming?ref=stream

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/13 20:05:57

Post by: milkboy

If this Daniel Mandelbaum guy is still active, should the linked thread be stickied? It is unfortunate to have more members of the hobby being scammed.

Bad trades/online purchases already leave a bad taste in my mouth. I can only imagine how being scammed can put a player off this hobby totally, as everytime you look at a model, you would only be reminded of the scam.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/15 11:49:01

Post by: Refamonkey

Hi everyone,

I too had the exact same problem with Sean Duncan. However I went ahead last month and contacted the peel police department. I have been in contact with them and they have worked with me (one of the police Sgt's has emailed me multiple times). Now that I know this is a bigger issue I will email him and ask him if he wants me to put his email up on this forum or if he would want to email you guys all individually. I'll keep you guys updated as soon as I receive word from him.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/15 15:01:57

Post by: mbutler132000

Would greatly appreciate that. At this point I think everyone would prefer to get back the merchandise and whatever money they can that has been paid to this guy.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/15 15:36:56

Post by: winterdyne

I remember this guy starting up, and the prices he was offering were stupidly cheap. The quality, meh, reasonable enough. But I didn't think it was maintainable then. Looks like I may have been right.

I've been doing commissions a long time, and the truth of it is, when you put prices down like that the volume of work has a very high risk of becoming daunting to the point of you simply not being capable of doing it.

Having taken money in advance (even at the 10% - 20% up front I charge) is TERRIFYING. You can get into the situation where know you need to push things on, but you literally don't have the time, and this causes a freeze while you find something else to give you money to eat / rent a room, whatever, and that can (if you've been even slightly overconfident in your scheduling) cause a vicious cycle of spiralling debt (in terms of work owed, if not actual arrears on payments due). It can get even worse if you're working two jobs to make ends meet, as you have even less time than you were estimating when thinking of the commission things as 'full time'. Take the moral path of completing your promised work, or the practical path of being able to eat? Generally most people's morals go out of the window if they can't support themselves.

In terms of advice to commission places - learn how to say 'no, I can't do any more', and 'I need to cancel this job'. Ensure you have the deposit money for commissions booked set aside so you can refund it if necessary. Also, ensure you talk to clients when things go tits up (and sooner or later, something ALWAYS goes tits up).

I've had one job (albeit a large one) go badly wrong, and I'm still working on it, having taken initial order and deposit nearly 2 years ago. This has meant I've basically needed to stop taking on new work (other than a few small pieces to keep things ticking over) so I can concentrate on it - clearing the decks and throttling back while maintaining a profile of work (and balancing other jobs too) is extremely difficult. Luckily, the client is well aware of how things play out, and is happy to wait for what'll be an absolutely lovely army when I'm done with it. And he knows where I live and (scarily) knows how to call in airstrikes, lol.

In terms of advice to clients looking for commission work - don't just look at a gallery of work done - pay attention to WHEN it was done. This gives you an idea as to whether the studio is active - tracking WIP posts on forums is a good way of seeing things. Look for honesty in how the service communicates with people - a purely positive spin is usually... well, spin. Everybody screws up sometimes, look for the places that acknowledge that and deal with it.

NEVER pay up front in full unless you really, really trust the service - this means you've had successful, satisfactory work done in the past and you trust the studio to communicate and/or hold your money and toys.

NEVER EVER trust a place that requires payment in full up front. I don't know anywhere that does this.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/20 17:23:19

Post by: Refamonkey

Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay in updates. I am in the army so I tend to get stuck in the field alot.

As of approximately 1 hour ago, this case was forwarded to an Officer in the criminal investigation bureau of the Peel police department. The Police SGT I have been working with after looking into the matter forwarded all the relevant details (and this thread) to them. He will let me know what the CIB will do sometime this week once he has an answer from them. I will continue to update as I get more info. Hang in there guys!

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/20 20:10:50

Post by: tdub415

Thanks for the update. I filed a complaint with the BBB
which was un-responded to by Sean, so at least that mark will be on his record if anyone tries to look up the validity of his services: http://www.bbb.org/kitchener/business-reviews/miniatures-collectors/battlegrounds-wargaming-in-brampton-on-1308593/complaints

I would advise anyone who has negative dealings with him to open a BBB case. It's unlikely that you will gain anything from it, but it will help to create a public record so that others will be aware. When I initially set up my project with him, I didn't find anything negative (and I looked) and so I took the chance. I want to do what I can to make sure nobody else falls into the same trap that I did.

I will open a case with my local police department (as I'm out $315 USD retail in models and $400 CAD in commission), and forward any information I can to help with your case.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/20 20:16:55

Post by: skycapt44

I set up a commission with Sean about a year ago. I live about 1 hour from him so thought worst case scenario I could track him down. Needless to say very similar situation. I was put off many times and my project was delayed. We talked on the phone many times. I put up $80 as a deposit. He said he had a family member who worked for FedEx and I couriered the models to him. About 1.5 months later (supposed to be 2 weeks) I got my models back. A terrible paint job, nothing like what was agreed. When I say terrible I mean terrible. I've since stripped the models they were that bad. He agreed it was lousy and had tons of excuses. I cut my loses and did not give him an extra cent. I kept calling him and emailing him and finally got my models back. Do not deal with this guy is my advice.

Hope everything works out for you.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/20 21:04:44

Post by: RiTides

Refamonkey wrote:
Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay in updates. I am in the army so I tend to get stuck in the field alot.

As of approximately 1 hour ago, this case was forwarded to an Officer in the criminal investigation bureau of the Peel police department. The Police SGT I have been working with after looking into the matter forwarded all the relevant details (and this thread) to them. He will let me know what the CIB will do sometime this week once he has an answer from them. I will continue to update as I get more info. Hang in there guys!

Thanks for the update, Refa! Best of luck to you and others trying to get your money / models back, or at least getting some justice served.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/26 00:55:05

Post by: twinner

He has just posted this on his facebook page.

"Hey everyone. Thanks for sticking with us during the inyernet issues we have been having. Our normal website address and email address issue has been addressed and fixed. So please feel free to contact us anytime."

It seems he has yet to give up, he is either the dumbest scam artist or the worst business owner ever, either way I want my models back!

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/26 13:59:30

Post by: mbutler132000

I know some people my believe this is just naiveté but I think it's just really poor management and someone starting something they have no idea how to run. Seems like a lot of work for a scam that would all have to be redone pretty quickly once a person was caught.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/26 14:55:33

Post by: twinner

this is my recent text conversation I had with him. I texted him from a number he didn't know was mine, which I why I probably got the initial response,

Me: Hey! I saw your back up. Are you still accepting commissions.

Sean: Hello. How are you?

Website domain was renewing had a few problems but it's back now.

I am accepting new commissions. But I will tell you we are having a slight delay as we are a bit behind. But I do know I'm one of the cheapest out there so if you were looking at getting yourself a commission time slot was can talk further.

Me: Can I be honest?

This is Kevin from Sudbury. I just really want my stuff back man.

I don't understand how someone can continually lie to people and keep ripping people off. Aren't you afraid there is going to be repercussion? Maybe you aren't trying to rip people off, but man you have to fix this situation soon.

Sean: Yeah I know and stuff is crazy here, I'm slowly bringing things back. And no there are no repercussions because I never told one person they couldn't have their stuff. Meaning there is no theft.

We don't have a contractual due date.

I've never said, "Hey I'm keeping your stuff." Because I'm not keeping it.

And I fully just told you we were behind thinking you were a new customer. So I mean right there shows that I'm telling people and only taking new projects after they know about the delay.

Honestly all this ranting online has made it so much harder actually.

I had to get a day job because of all the slander.

I know you guys want your stuff back but making it harder isn't helping.

Like I told the officer that contacted me. I can claim bankruptcy right now and call this a learn learn XP. But I would never do that. I'm sticking it out and getting my customers what they paid for.

Me: Just send me my tank back please.

Can you do that?

Sean: Like I even have one kid saying I stole his stuff but doesn't want to show up to any of our meeting times.

I can do what ever you want.

Me: Send me my tank back tomorrow?

Sean: Just know I don't want to keep your tank.

Me: I have already paid return shipping.

Sean: Yeah I know.

Me: Can you send it to me tomorrow?

Sean: Yep, I will contact you tomorrow with a shipping number.

Me: If you return my stuff and I confirm it to people online it will help you a lot.

Sean: That would be nice, again sorry for the inconvenience man I really am. My life just got really f****d up.

I don't even have power at home, my landlord isn't paying his bill and ditched the house.

It's so f****d up,

Me: Just send me my model back tomorrow as promised and it will help you a lot.

Sean: Alright buddy I'll keep ya posted.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/26 19:01:12

Post by: Haight

I hope you get your stuff back (everyone in this thread)...

... but i know the type, and i will believe it when i see the post saying "Yup got my stuff back (painted or not)".

I don't know what about wargaming attracts scumbags.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/26 21:52:47

Post by: mbutler132000

Does this guy even know what he is talking about when he complains about preople posting this stuff online. First off, for it to be slander the people on this post would have to be falsifying what happened. If someone has lied on here Sean is more than welcome to come and post that fact and tell the truth of what happened. At least look up the word before you start throwing out accusations. And a slight delay? I sent him my stuff at the beginning of February and was told three weeks. It is now the end of May and I have yet to see any proof that anything has been done, other than his assurances. I don't think he understands he is running a business. These aren't your local gaming buddies asking you to paint their stuff, these are people who don't know you from Adam, there is no reason for them to trust you after you continuously give out sob stories of why you can't live up to your end of the deal. I run a business too and I don't get to my customers and tell them, "well life's tough right now so you will suffer for it". They don't care what is tough they just want whatever product or service they paid for. And as far as it not being theft because he isn't saying he is not giving the stuff back, that's laughable. If you say over and over you are going to return a product and never actually do, that's theft. I don't care what you tell the customer. I'm not saying those are his intentions but at least think about what you are writing before you do. I've emailed and messaged him through Facebook and Twitter, but not heard anything yet.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/26 23:36:52

Post by: Leo_the_Rat

Bankruptcy doesn't stop theft charges either. Just because he can't pay anyone back doesn't mean he's clear of facing criminal charges of fraud and theft.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/27 21:58:08

Post by: mbutler132000

I went down the same route as Twinner and messaged Sean via text.

Me: As I understand it you are back up and able to use your Internet. Is everything going smoothly for your business now?

Sean: Haha getting caught up model by model

had major Internet issues with my house and cellphone all at once. It has been terrible. Then on top my domain had an error renewing and I had to put a error ticket put and have it fixed. But yes I'm getting back on schedule.

Me: Are you now able to send out photos of the projects as they are being worked on?

Sean: I'm currently working on that. May I ask who this is? I'm guessing ur a current client

Me: Yes, I sent over the high elves back in February. I was told a couple of weeks ago you were putting the finishing touches on them. So I presume by now they are finished. You should have my email, the photos can be sent there. (sent at 9:23am)

Me: Anything? (sent at 12:14pm)

Me: Should I look for these photos in my email, on your website, or your YouTube channel? (sent at 4:45pm)

It is now 5pm here and I've yet to hear anything.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/29 18:26:12

Post by: mbutler132000

Just an update. Sent this text to Sean about ten minutes ago.

Me: So will I get an answer on this? As I understand it you were suppose to ship back one of your other customers tank a few days ago. He had not indicated this has happened. Any updates on either project?

Have not received an answer to this or my previous inquiries.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/05/29 20:06:13

Post by: tdub415

I have yet to hear anything back from Sean following an email I sent at 9:59 AM (central time) on Tuesday, May 27th, 2014. My last response from him is still from Feb. 14th 2014.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/06/02 02:15:10

Post by: mbutler132000

I have found some information from another customer of Sean's who has been dealing with the police on this directly. There is currently an officer investigating this company and Sean. I was given the officers name and email and have sent him my complaint about Sean to add to the claims they currently have against him. If anyone else would like this information I believe the more people that make these claims the better the chances of having a good outcome, if nothing else it will help the police stop this person from ripping off other people. PM me if you are interested and I will send you the prevalent information.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/06/23 00:27:08

Post by: twinner

any updates on this?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/06/23 00:54:37

Post by: Retrogamer0001

I got so mad at this "person" that I messaged him through FB:

ME:Why are you stealing from people on forum's like DakkaDakka? I certainly hope you know the word is out on you and your "business". I would suggest doing the right thing and showing that you're capable of being a decent human being and not a lying thief.

Sean: Projects are in progress. All customer's can receive there models back at any time with no refund as work has already been completed or they can let me.do the right thing like I'm doing and completing them

Sean: Their*

ME:I hope this is true, and I'll be posting your response on the forum. This is something a lot of people are discussing right now.

Take from that what you will, but I think he's lying. I really hope you guys get this sorted out.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/06/23 01:21:06

Post by: twinner

Seeing as how I have asked for my models back, whether or not he has finished them, and still have yet to receive anything, let alone hear from him. I feel this is a lie.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/06/23 01:23:03

Post by: Retrogamer0001

twinner wrote:
Seeing as how I have asked for my models back, whether or not he has finished them, and still have yet to receive anything, let alone hear from him. I feel this is a lie.

Whatever it may be, he replied to me immediately, so don't believe any of his bs about internet issues if he decides to bring that up again.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/07/07 13:18:47

Post by: mbutler132000

Sent Sean a twitter message and was able to get a response. Below is the conversation.

Me: Will you be sending back my models and refunding the money you agreed to now? I, along with numerous other dissatisfied customers, have contacted your local police about this matter. I would prefer not to go down that road but will if I feel you continue to ignore these requests.

Sean: K first off I'm not ignoring ur messages I told you numerous times that I'm going through all the emails and messages to get to everyone. Your stuff is being packaged up to send out. As far as a refund there will be none. Refunds are a privilege not a right. I have a few angry customer yes but you were the one to go public when this was a private matter. Noone told you that you were getting robbed. You shouldn't assume. Due to thay I've basically closed down and started a regular job. Making sending you your stuff take easy longer as I Don't have time anymore. So if ur wondering how I'm not finishing this stuff now you know. I currently work all day somewhere else And not a single cop has done anything cuz it's a civil matter. They can't do anything

Me: Well I will leave what they are capable of doing up to them, not you. You agreed to the refund, that is why I am expecting it.
If you are choosing not to keep your word that is up to you. As for going public with this, that was my right.

Sean: Sure it was Matt. I know you just wanted ur stuff I do understand. It just caused me to have to get a diff job making getting you guys ur stuff alot harder

Me: I did not tell any lies , only what happened throughout this process. I will watch for the models in the mail and expect to see them in the next couple of weeks. The refund is because you will not be able to do the work I paid for now. Please send over the tracking number once the package has shipped.

So according go Sean my stuff should ship out soon. I'll keep this post updated on anything new I hear.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/07/07 19:38:15

Post by: PlasticSwap.com

Wow, how do people manage to get away with this? Maybe Canadian law is different then US law but even to have my website up I had to register a business license and agree that if my business gets sued it would go against my personal assets.

I guess this guy is probably just a kid but the entitlement there is crazy. The "I had to get a day job so i can't do your stuff...." heh there are a lot of us that have a day job and still work hard to make our customers happy.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/07/11 22:00:33

Post by: mbutler132000

Still not heard anything about this actually being shipped after I was told Monday it would be.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/07/14 18:23:35

Post by: mbutler132000

Still no word on if this was actually sent off.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/07/25 12:55:36

Post by: AduroT

Anything yet?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/07/25 13:39:43

Post by: Mr. Burning

I just read through this thread and As bad as Sean at Battlegrounds Wargaming is (for whatever reason) Those individuals who have lost out should really be moving on.

If Sean was a legit business type he would have contacted those affected in the first instance and not waited for it to get this far.

An offer would have been made and or shipping numbers would have been provided again - before it got this far.

Looking at the transcripts it seems obvious that, with another job, there is no possible way to commission paint minis, at low low prices, with the amount of limited hours in a day.

Just pass on details of convos and messages to the officer mention ITT. suck it up and learn a life lesson.

Just don't play message ping-pong and stretch out the inevitable.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/08/03 03:08:35

Post by: mbutler132000

The purpose of this thread is not only to convey information back and forth but to warn other people about him. If we simply said he didn't follow through and that was it he might so be getting customers. His website is still up so I can only assume he will take money from new customers if any try to deal with him. Also as you said, you just found it and it's been up for a couple of months now. So new people are still just now finding out about this person.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/08/03 04:33:21

Post by: twinner

Mr. Burning wrote:
I just read through this thread and As bad as Sean at Battlegrounds Wargaming is (for whatever reason) Those individuals who have lost out should really be moving on.

If Sean was a legit business type he would have contacted those affected in the first instance and not waited for it to get this far.

An offer would have been made and or shipping numbers would have been provided again - before it got this far.

Looking at the transcripts it seems obvious that, with another job, there is no possible way to commission paint minis, at low low prices, with the amount of limited hours in a day.

Just pass on details of convos and messages to the officer mention ITT. suck it up and learn a life lesson.

Just don't play message ping-pong and stretch out the inevitable.

Stand up guy you are.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/08/03 09:03:28

Post by: Mr. Burning

No, just a realist.

A commission painter is the same as a garage, the same as a supermarket, the same as any other company offering a service.

Take my money and you better be able to fulfill your end of the contract.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/08/04 06:34:37

Post by: TwilightSparkles

The problem is I suspect that, as in the UK, a lot of "commission painters" are not registered businesses. I'm still struggling to understand why people have not initiated credit card charge backs or didn't dispute via Paypal before the 45 day deadline? Hope you guys eventually get what you are owed.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/08/04 20:29:49

Post by: tdub415

Unfortunately (as I found out when I disputed it via Paypal), paypal's protection doesn't apply to 'services'.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/08/05 18:07:05

Post by: mbutler132000

Also PayPal only goes 45 days for disputes. it's usually longer than that before you know something has gone wrong. At least that's the way it was in my case.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/08/06 21:09:49

Post by: Koppo

TwilightSparkles wrote:
The problem is I suspect that, as in the UK, a lot of "commission painters" are not registered businesses. I'm still struggling to understand why people have not initiated credit card charge backs or didn't dispute via Paypal before the 45 day deadline? Hope you guys eventually get what you are owed.

The UK does not have he concept of "Registered Business". We have types of companies such as Limited Liability which require to be registered with companies house and any person acting as a business that turns over £10k has to pay (and register for) VAT but anybody can act as a business by just doing so. Certain activities need things like insurance and the like (pubic liability for example) but any sole trading business is with the person in the UK, not any corporate entity (meaning their possessions are up for grabs should they default on debts).

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/08/07 00:30:58

Post by: twinner

We have results, this goes to show you as a community we can get results and stop people like this.

There will be charges being placed, one account for each person affected.

That is about 10 accounts, this guy will never do this again. Let this be a warning to anyone reading this who thinks they can get away with stealing from the community, your actions do not go unpunished. Are toys, worth going to jail for?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2014/08/09 23:52:56

Post by: DukeBadham

Will the charges stick though? or will it just be considered drama over toys and nothing will happen? please keep people updated! and I hope you get your models and money back all of you!

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/01/19 21:57:16

Post by: kolu2210

Any updates on what happened with this?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/02/20 22:46:53

Post by: tdub415

I have tried reaching out to the constable who was working on this case a few times in the past couple of months, but haven't heard anything back yet.

I received a letter from the MINISTRY OF CONSUMER SERVICES to the effect of, "they've tried to contact him, but he's non responsive. We can't do anything else, we suggest you pursue legal action".

I have notice that Sean has opened a new record label by the name of DPMO Records, and has been active on his facebook account again (and pointed this out to the police).

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/02/24 12:57:57

Post by: kronk

tdub415 wrote:
Unfortunately (as I found out when I disputed it via Paypal), paypal's protection doesn't apply to 'services'.

If your paypal is connected to your credit card, call them. You can dispute through them, eve after paypal's 45 days.

Best of luck!

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/11 15:57:20

Post by: mbutler132000

Well it looks like this company's Facebook page is back up and running. They are still taking commission work from people. I'd just ask anyone looking to work with them to read the previous posts on this forum to be able to make a well informed decision.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/11 16:24:18

Post by: Kimchi Gamer

It is a bit troubling that this guy has his FB page back up in running, claiming to be the largest and best Canadian miniature painting service. A quick read through of this page reveals a person seemingly incapable of not only running a business but also of being trustworthy. How many months of sending a message saying 'your stuff is being prepared for shipment' followed up by saying things like 'you've caused me to have to get a new job so it makes it hard to pack your stuff up'. It's unfortunate for the customers in this thread, but I think the original models were most likely sold long ago. Sean admits to renting a room in a house with no power, as well as laments that he had to get a 'real job'. Not sure if those facts connect with his miniature painting company being the best in Canada.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/11 17:21:46

Post by: mbutler132000

I noticed that too. He says he is the largest in the UK and Canada. I know he has an address you can send them to in the UK but as far as I can tell it's just him doing it and he isn't in the UK. Definitely wish I had done more research before I made any agreements with him.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/11 17:35:10

Post by: kronk

twinner wrote:
Well he must have internet, he has just blocked me from replying to any of his posts or messaging him, all i asked is if I would ever see my model. Which leads me to two conclusions, #1 I am not getting my model back, and #2 he is still wanting to get new "customers" so be careful, it would also be awesome if some people could comment on some of the photos,and start putting pressure.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/Battlegroundswargaming?ref=stream

Kronk Kronkington III is no longer allowed to post on this FB site.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/11 18:28:50

Post by: DukeBadham

kronk wrote:
twinner wrote:
Well he must have internet, he has just blocked me from replying to any of his posts or messaging him, all i asked is if I would ever see my model. Which leads me to two conclusions, #1 I am not getting my model back, and #2 he is still wanting to get new "customers" so be careful, it would also be awesome if some people could comment on some of the photos,and start putting pressure.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/Battlegroundswargaming?ref=stream

Kronk Kronkington III is no longer allowed to post on this FB site.

Why was Kronk Kronkington banned from his facebook site? From what I have seen Kronk Kronkington has always been the epitome of gentlemanliness! This confirms it, Battlegrounds is up to no good! (allegedly)

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/13 17:20:07

Post by: tdub415

For quite some time (basically the point those of us who have commissioned things realized what was up) he has had all posts/comments disabled and deleted those that were already there.

I did get a response from him on facebook:

ME:
March 2nd, 2:35pm
Sean, now that you appear to be active again, when can I expect either a refund of what I paid you plus the cost of the models I shipped you, or my project to completion?

Battlegrounds Wargaming:
March 2nd, 4:38pm
Yup I'm back. things are much better now. I'm paid ting full time again so I will have an update for you very soon

Not going to say I've heard that before, but <insert what I said I wasn't going to say>. We'll see how things play out...

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/14 14:52:12

Post by: Gav99

Has anyone contacted the company that he rents his webpage address from? This would be the first thing to shut down so that he can't continue to entice new customers (marks) to his scheme. Frankly, until he has fulfilled his current obligations he shouldn't be taking any new business.

He's also on facebook, so has anyone tried contacting his family and friends to tell them about what he's doing? This has worked for some in the past.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/14 20:16:08

Post by: mbutler132000

I would never suggest contacting the friends and family of someone in this situation. They have nothing to do with it, so there is no need to do anything that could be seen as harassing them.
I did just receive a message from Sean stating the following:
"Hey how are you. I wanted to message you as regarding your commission. I have totally lost access to my old email.and have lost all your records. I want to make things right with you. Please contact me"
I sent him an email stating I had a list of all models and money I sent him and can resend this list if needed. We will see what happens now.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/14 21:36:54

Post by: Metalhed2434

Am I the only one who would refuse to do business with someone like that based solely off of grammar?!?! Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be "that guy" as I am certainly no grammar professional, and I am not a troll. I am not even trying to sound snarky, arrogant, or rude. I honestly just wonder if I am the only one who does that. If the grammar is totally broken, I guess I just don't feel like I can trust the person on the other end of the faceless internet...I was just shocked to read through that and have no one mention it.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/14 23:21:18

Post by: SpookyBoogie

Metalhed2434 wrote:
Am I the only one who would refuse to do business with someone like that based solely off of grammar?!?! Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be "that guy" as I am certainly no grammar professional, and I am not a troll. I am not even trying to sound snarky, arrogant, or rude. I honestly just wonder if I am the only one who does that. If the grammar is totally broken, I guess I just don't feel like I can trust the person on the other end of the faceless internet...I was just shocked to read through that and have no one mention it.

In a sense i do that. Some typos are not something i worry about but when somebody comes across like they don't really care what they write it does put me off. It'd be like a Surgeon coming to see me and talking like "Yo dawg we be gettin dis tumor right outta you brap brap!" and throwing down a gang sign I'd run away. When somebody has good spelling and grammar it shows they care about their work and that they have a feel of professionalism, It's not a huge rule of course some of the best scam artists out there know how to come across like they know what they are talking about and how to seem genuine but first impressions in any business relationship between artists and client are important.

I'd say there are much bigger red flags to look for than spelling though.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 00:39:00

Post by: jah-joshua

i write like this on a forum, because it is quick and easy...
forums are fairly loose and informal, in my opinion...

I write like this when I reply to commission inquiries, because it is professional, and correct. A commission request is business, which should be taken seriously.

cheers
jah

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 01:44:51

Post by: mbutler132000

Here is the correspondence I have had with this company after I sent him a list of everything I had commissioned as well as my trades. I would be very interested if anyone here thinks my request is out of line.

SEAN: Let me go over all this get everything. Organized and I'll make a plan from there. Unfortunately I can't refund your money as I don't have it but I would be more the happy to get this done for you ASAP. I've gotten my life under control on my end and I'm finally able to get some real work done. Again I apologize for everything.

ME: Well this has certainly been an ordeal. If the original work that was promised was completed at the original price I would accept that. However, the original price was $252. I paid an additional $248 for the deal you had going, pay $500 and get $1000 worth of work. Due to everything that has happened up to now I do not believe this part of the deal can be fulfilled. Therefore as I see it the $248 should be reimbursed. That will leave me paying $252 and all the models I traded in for the painting commission.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 02:09:39

Post by: jah-joshua

wow...
that is an ordeal...
the question is, though, how does one get blood from a stone???
if the guy doesn't have the cash to reimburse you, what are your options???
what a horrible situation for you to be in, mbutler132000...
i feel for you...

best of luck getting this resolved...

cheers
jah

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 02:25:27

Post by: Byte

Something is definitely off.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 02:37:38

Post by: Verviedi

How wouldn't he have the money?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 03:06:37

Post by: mbutler132000

Sean has agreed to reimburse me the money and complete the project. I will post how this process goes.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 03:29:03

Post by: Byte

I hope it works out in your favor. This situation sounds like its been a mess for you.

Such a shame as his ad seems to have some potential.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 03:31:34

Post by: mbutler132000

When I asked for a timeframe on the completion of this project, due to the fact that it seemed he had quite a bit of backlogged work to finish, this was the response I received.

SEAN: Oh there's only a couple left now you and one other. As for time I'm not 100% few weeks for sure..I've been painting up a storm lately.

I would say that anyone who has posted on this thread, or who has been in this situation with Sean, and has received the finished product should post here. As I told Sean, I would post everything that happened and if there was anything in here that seemed untrue I would encourage him or any other member to call it out. If he has completed a backlogged order for someone that should be reflected in this thread, regardless of past dealings. Anyone posting a completed order I would say is encouraged to tell how the process went, good or bad.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 04:53:57

Post by: jah-joshua

good to hear that the dude is back in touch with his customers...
i hope everything works out...

cheers
jah

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 11:19:49

Post by: SpookyBoogie

I have fingers crossed for people after going through this thread the guys track record isn't so great. If he can redeem himself fine but he's already done a lot of damage to his reputation. He seems like he has no money so he probably spends it as soon as he gets it and he has no records of clients what did he delete them?

A happy ending would be nice but he could easily make all these promises again and then vanish.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/15 23:22:24

Post by: MeanGreenStompa

This man?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/16 02:28:16

Post by: mbutler132000

Yes, that's his channel

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/27 02:36:57

Post by: mbutler132000

Just wondering if anyone on this forum post who paid Battlegrounds Wargaming for commissioned painting has received the finished product or photos of a work in progress they can post here. While I have not seen any pictures of the models I sent over to them, they have assured me they are being worked on and will be able to meet the timeframe given to me. Which will be a week from Sunday. I spoke with Sean and assured him that i would post pictures of the finished product on this thread in order keep the entire process upfront. He has told me that some of the past jobs have been completed and I would encourage anyone who has received the product or pictures of the product to communicate that on this thread. At the same time, anyone who has seen a new deadline lapse should post this fact also. My goal is to make sure only the truth gets out about how these processes are going.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/27 04:44:59

Post by: Torga_DW

Keep in mind that paypal and credit cards have expiration dates on when you can file a complaint to get your money back. Some people/companies are aware of this and will try to talk/stall you until that date is passed and then they effectively own your money.

Courtesy and promises are nice, but i prefer the father's quote from grumpy old men: "you can wish into one hand and s*** into the other, and see which one fills up first."

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/31 03:42:44

Post by: twinner

I have since be in contact with him, I just asked for my stuff back. Painted or not I just want the model, it is only a FW Razorback but still. I was talking with him two weeks ago and the first deadline he said he would repaint it by was missed. I talked with him again on Friday asking he just mail it back in whatever condition it is in, we agreed on today. I have not heard from him yet, I will let you know.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/31 12:38:44

Post by: Byte

Nothing about this situation sounds on the level. Always the mail fraud option. That works really well.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/03/31 13:57:38

Post by: mbutler132000

I think most everyone involved has taken the legal action they can. Personally I'm hopeful that it works out this time and this was just a situation of someone getting in over their head in the beginning. I suppose if Twinner does not hear anything today about his model being returned that will speak volumes about the current state of this situation. For me, the deadline set by the painter was this Sunday. I've already received emails saying this date could change, but as of right now he has assured me he still believes he is on schedule. I have not received any WIP pictures, but if I do I will post them, or at least post the fact I received them and what state the models are in. I doubt many people are going to have a lot of patience if these deadlines start coming and going again. Fortunately it sounds like we do have some legal options if it comes to that. Personally I hope it doesn't and would prefer to wait a little bit longer, at this point only a little bit, and get what I originally paid for.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/01 16:16:55

Post by: mbutler132000

Twinner, did you ever hear anything back on your model? Did he send it yesterday?

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/01 20:41:34

Post by: twinner

mbutler132000 wrote:
Twinner, did you ever hear anything back on your model? Did he send it yesterday?

Did not hear anything from hear from him.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/02 20:52:32

Post by: ash o

Just seen this thread, he's consistently posting onto his Instagram. https://instagram.com/battlegroundswargaming/
I'm down a Warhound so I know the pain here.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/02 21:53:08

Post by: mbutler132000

I've noticed a few people from Britain posting on here. Did any of you send your stuff to the British address he had on his site? I wonder who is working on the stuff over there.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/02 21:57:34

Post by: ash o

I posted to the Canada office, the Sheffield office (which is a half hour drive from me) was supposedly backed up so he paid postage for me.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/03 02:05:33

Post by: twinner

He got back to me and said he was behind yet again. Even thought I asked him not to paint it and just ship it out, he seemingly ignored that.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/03 12:28:22

Post by: Leo_the_Rat

You live in Canada, he lives in Canada, the RMCP works in Canada and, you use the Canadian postal service. I suggest you start using the RMCP and Postal Inspectors services.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/07 14:12:07

Post by: mbutler132000

The deadline he set for himself on my models was Sunday. Sent an email asking for a new deadline but have not heard anything yet.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/11 14:30:54

Post by: ash o

He's replied to me, informed me he's in the process of moving.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/11 15:27:36

Post by: mbutler132000

So he reached out to everyone to assure them he was going to get the work finished right before he moved? Did he say it was an unexpected move or he just thougt he could take on two huge projects at once.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/11 17:45:28

Post by: ash o

Just said he was in the middle of it and would start my work in the next few days and that he's been trying to square the missed work with everyone else.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/15 03:34:21

Post by: mbutler132000

I've still heard nothing from him. Last email I received was on the second of the month telling me he thought he would be finished by the fifth. I've sent three emails since the deadline and heard nothing back.

Last email received:
Not 100% I'm just saying that with painting times fluctuate. If someone say around 4 weeks it could be 3 could be 5. I'm aiming for Sunday but we shall see.

My most recent email sent:
This is starting to seem a lot like last time where I kept requesting updates and would hear nothing back. I'd really like some sort of an update. And pictures of my models, whether you have done anything to them or not. I'd like some sort of proof you have them. Please have this to me by Thursday or I will have to try to retrieve my merchandise by other means. I really don't want to have to re-involve the police, but I need some sort of communication from you.
Thank you,

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/15 05:17:41

Post by: twinner

Last I heard he had updates pictures for me, even though I had just requested them back without him painting them. Will let you know if I hear anything. Bulter, please send me a list of the models he has of yours please.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/20 18:18:02

Post by: mbutler132000

I noticed he has been putting pictures on his Facebook page of some Necron models. Is this an old commission of someone here he has started working on? If not I would assume he has put all of us on the back burner while he does a few new customers, even though the people on this thread have been waiting a year + to get the work completed.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/20 19:00:59

Post by: Cothonian

Having read through this topic it sounds like time for legal action. Every communication this guy sends is always the same, it appears that he has no intent to return any of the property sent to him.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/21 17:54:16

Post by: mbutler132000

Just received a Facebook message from Sean. He said he is unpacking everything now and about to start painting my stuff. He did send me a picture of a whole bunch of HE models. Can't really tell what they are but he says some are mine. The rest of mine are apparently packed away. We will see if the pictures start coming in.

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/21 19:01:47

Post by: ash o

Doing better than me, I'm still awaiting a reply

Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience) @ 2015/04/23 13:36:51

Post by: twinner

He posted an ad on my local online market place, he obviously thinks he has time to take on huge commissions, yet he can't send me my single tank back...

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hobbies-craft/city-of-toronto/free-warhammer-battleforce-w-1000-commission/1066725177?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true