I've read the books Nosferatu, and Arkhan was Nagash's main man for a long time before he became disgraced. Then he threw his lot in with the Queen of Lahmia.
Point is, he's always been a enemy of Khemri and never their ally. Makes no sense he's an IC in a TK book.
Thunderfrog wrote:I've read the books Nosferatu, and Arkhan was Nagash's main man for a long time before he became disgraced. Then he threw his lot in with the Queen of Lahmia.
Point is, he's always been a enemy of Khemri and never their ally. Makes no sense he's an IC in a TK book.
Thunderfrog wrote:I've read the books Nosferatu, and Arkhan was Nagash's main man for a long time before he became disgraced. Then he threw his lot in with the Queen of Lahmia.
Point is, he's always been a enemy of Khemri and never their ally. Makes no sense he's an IC in a TK book.
Might just be a simple case of ret-conning then.. I mean GW owns the fluff they can do what they want (Im looking at you Matthew Ward)
There is a rumor that in the second wave they are replacing the core skeleton model. If GW has made a mistake anywhere this would be it. How do you build your new/old TK army without buying skeletons? I plan on buying several battalions and just putting the new skeletons in front.
Meanwhile to answer your question directly, everyone who makes models makes skeletons, it is one of the most base models out there.
http://www.reapermini.com/
They're certainly cheaper but better is a bit of a preference thing.
I have 60 mantic skellies, but tbh i probably prefer the old GW skellies with TK bits, especially when using the new Tomb Guard swords. I think its those goofy eyebrows that put me off the most (and there are a few areas that are flat esp. the shields)
However, this has been discussed before so i shall leave it there, apologies for going OT.
Really excited now, just finished getting up to the last page (86!) on Warseer but cant be bothered to post everything.
Frgt/10 wrote:Quick update from me:
There are a few more models to be shown: the necrotect, prince apophas, and the ushabti with great bows. All are metal models. These are more than likely the week three...
Ushabti sculpts are similar to current but not the same. Prince is made of scarabs, can fly and has a S2 breath weapon apparently.
Also note that the Bone Giant isnt represented picture-wise in the new book.
Hierophant has Regen 6+ and gives it to the unit hes in.
I think the stalkers look creepy and intimdating, great models! The knights, on the other hand, look incredibly goofy mainly due to the crazy-looking riders, as has been pointed out. But at least they are not simply boring and plain...on a snake.
I've been an Undead payer since before the VC/TK split and back then the WS-boosting ability was a TK thing, not a VC thing. If anything, we're getting our ability back from the Nagash-lovers.
> Arkhan appearing
Awesome. I'm genuinely pleased to see him, we can kill him again. He uses our army list? Well yeah, that's no surprise given that Nagash and the TK basically had the same kind of forces. It's kinda like a Daemonhost-heavy radical *cough heretic cough* Maleus army being built from the same codex as a pure Grey Knights force.
Thunderfrog wrote:I've read the books Nosferatu, and Arkhan was Nagash's main man for a long time before he became disgraced. Then he threw his lot in with the Queen of Lahmia.
Point is, he's always been a enemy of Khemri and never their ally. Makes no sense he's an IC in a TK book.
Might just be a simple case of ret-conning then.. I mean GW owns the fluff they can do what they want (Im looking at you Matthew Ward)
The thing is, the Nagash Books are from the very recent Time of Legends series, so it's not like they're changing 10 year old fluff (Well, they're changing that too, but still). Just odd that they're doing something that would be roughly equivalent of letting a Space Wolf army play with Ahriman.
Question: I think someone mentioned Ushabti with Bows. If you look in the Video there is a unit of what looks like Ushabti on the upper left hand side of the board.
I do not know the tomb king range well, but it appears that two of the ushabti are holding weapons in one hand with the weapon vertical.
The pictures online of the ushabti all have them holding two handed weapons Mostly Horizontally.
Could this be a sneak peak at the Ushabti with Bows?
Currious about something now. On GW's Whats new for today, Where it mentions Kalida, and says she makes the archers all have poison.. could it be she still gives that to all archer units, not just one she joins?
I always loved the ushabti models, I just wish they woulda plastified them instead of making the snake thingies.. although I don't mind the regular snakes, but the skeleton surfers look kinda silly.
Can't imagine ushabti archers though, I prefer them being hard hitting great weapon statue things.
stratassj wrote:Currious about something now. On GW's Whats new for today, Where it mentions Kalida, and says she makes the archers all have poison.. could it be she still gives that to all archer units, not just one she joins?
It doesn't say that. It states "since she can make my archers' arrows Poisoned" which is kind of sad.
Necros wrote:I always loved the ushabti models, I just wish they woulda plastified them instead of making the snake thingies.. although I don't mind the regular snakes, but the skeleton surfers look kinda silly.
Can't imagine ushabti archers though, I prefer them being hard hitting great weapon statue things.
I think that you can see the new Ushabti Archers in the video for the What's New today. they are on the upper left of the board.
LazzurusMan wrote:Hey, this might sound heretical, but does anyone know where i can get alternative skeletons for TK? I love the new models and rules, but i can't stand the old skeletons. Can anyone help???
stratassj wrote:Currious about something now. On GW's Whats new for today, Where it mentions Kalida, and says she makes the archers all have poison.. could it be she still gives that to all archer units, not just one she joins?
It doesn't say that. It states "since she can make my archers' arrows Poisoned" which is kind of sad.
Ahh yes but he then goes on to say he would include her in a unit of tomb guard, hinting that she does make all of the archers have poisoned arrows.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also on the video I think the two models to the right of the screen on the skull scenery are new Liche(sp?) priests and there's an IC at the front which might be the guy that gives constructs regeneration (cant remember what they are called)
Oh and also I'm guessing the ushabti archers are in metal? as they pointed out the new plastic kits.
Unless there keeping the other releases we haven't properly seen yet under wraps.
Anyone that's seen the sphinx for reals know if it's something that you could magnetize, like swap the beasty head for the big torso, and swap the wings for the howdah on the back? Kinda looks like there's a separation right above the front legs where you could swap stuff around
Okay I am wanting a TK army now..Just want a different cover for the army book wow that is ugly. Now jsut need to find someone who buys the army and than wants to sell at 50% off lol
I think iv figured out what that big thing with the liche priest stood on top is.
is it a hierotitan? I put too parts together from the getting started page with the piece of artwork with the TK on it.
"Statues of Warsphinxes, Necrolith Colossi and Hierotitans tower above the skeletal legions"
and
"Every Tomb Kings army needs at least one Liche Priest present, the highest ranking of which is called the Hierophant."
Hierophant... Hierotitan, sorta makes sense not sure if anyone had figured this out yet so thought I might as well post it
Necros wrote:Anyone that's seen the sphinx for reals know if it's something that you could magnetize, like swap the beasty head for the big torso, and swap the wings for the howdah on the back? Kinda looks like there's a separation right above the front legs where you could swap stuff around
Why not just model the howdah on the back of the necrosphynx? Magnetize that, or just set it up so it sits on the back of the sphinx like a saddle.
Frgt/10 wrote:There are a few more models to be shown: the necrotect, prince apophas, and the ushabti with great bows. All are metal models. These are more than likely the week three releases I mentioned.(...)
(On Ushabi) They're quite nice. They're new sculpts as apposed to additions to previous ones, but obviously they share similarities with the current ones. In terms of conversions it depends how the arms attach to the torsos, they also have quivers that need to be removed.(...)
Bone giant is 2nd wave.(...)
(On Necrotect) the model has a whip and has some serious conversion potential imo(...)
and you ca see all the models i mentioned in the video they posted today; ushabti back left, necrotect back right, and the new prince front right. (...)
Casket is rare and no longer an option for a priest.(...)
Also to those worrying about healing units in combat; the tomb kings have 4 augment spells, so I don't really know what you're all worrying about honestly...(...)
necrolith colossus is like the old bone giant, but can take a giant bow (bolt thrower) and a few other weapon options (GW, 2 hand weapons, i think thats it)
BTW, the Sphinx is on a chariot base, as are the snakes.
Photo from the video, posted by anselminus over at Warseer:
Frgt/10 wrote:There are a few more models to be shown: the necrotect, prince apophas, and the ushabti with great bows. All are metal models. These are more than likely the week three releases I mentioned.(...)
(On Ushabi) They're quite nice. They're new sculpts as apposed to additions to previous ones, but obviously they share similarities with the current ones. In terms of conversions it depends how the arms attach to the torsos, they also have quivers that need to be removed.(...)
Bone giant is 2nd wave.(...)
(On Necrotect) the model has a whip and has some serious conversion potential imo(...)
and you ca see all the models i mentioned in the video they posted today; ushabti back left, necrotect back right, and the new prince front right. (...)
Casket is rare and no longer an option for a priest.(...)
Also to those worrying about healing units in combat; the tomb kings have 4 augment spells, so I don't really know what you're all worrying about honestly...(...)
necrolith colossus is like the old bone giant, but can take a giant bow (bolt thrower) and a few other weapon options (GW, 2 hand weapons, i think thats it)
BTW, the Sphinx is on a chariot base, as are the snakes.
Photo from the video, posted by anselminus over at Warseer:
LazzurusMan wrote:Hey, this might sound heretical, but does anyone know where i can get alternative skeletons for TK? I love the new models and rules, but i can't stand the old skeletons. Can anyone help???
Mix old skeletons with new tomb guard bits.
Guess i'll just get Tomb Guards and count as skeleton with hw + shield.
But thats too expensive. Looked at Mantic Games skeletons , dont like either.
@ lazzurusman , my original idea was to buy box of vampire counts skeleton and box of tombking skeletons.
build the tomb king skeletons into archers. Give the shield + some egyptian head to the vampire count skellies.
The Necrosphinx is slightly smaller than I was hoping for, but I am still pretty impressed with it. Also, I am looking forwardto seing what Ushabti can do with bows. I bet they hit pretty hard.
Is there any word on if there will be a new plastic bone giant kit yet?
I heard the Bone Giant is coming 2nd Wave, I'm sure Kroot can confirm whether this is the case or not however.
Actually, in his post it says "Bone giant is 2nd wave.(...) " (From Frgt) and it can be safely assumed it's plastic.
Well, I ended up preordering the book, 1 sphinx and a box of snake surfers to paint up. I doubt I can get my old 6th edition army up to speed for a reasonable amount of money though, I think I'd need another 500 pts of Core at least and that's too expensive money-wise.
The store I work in didn't, and from what I gather from other stores in our area they didn't either. On the website where it lists the contents of the Black Box it doesn't actually say that it would contain the Army book.
I think this is because some of the new models due to be released a few weeks after the launch (think Castallan Crowe & Jokaero for GK) haven't been shown yet and will have pictures in the Army Book. So don't expect the new book to hit the shops until after the 2nd batch of new stuff is up on the website so that it's still a surprise as to some of what's to come rather than everyone having seen it all before it gets announced.
Misguidance wrote:The Necrosphinx is slightly smaller than I was hoping for, but I am still pretty impressed with it. Also, I am looking forwardto seing what Ushabti can do with bows. I bet they hit pretty hard.
Is there any word on if there will be a new plastic bone giant kit yet?
IIRC ushabti have strenght6 longbows
And BS2 i guess..... And they replace your GW or other CC weapon.
So no awesome shooting unit IMO
I just noticed that on the GW site, the Bone Giant has had the following text added to it's description: 'The Bone Giant is a great model to represent the Tomb Kings Necrolith Collossus.'
I don't know whether I'm reading too much into this, or whether the new Bone Giant will look significantly different and they'll rename the old one or what. Interesting, though.
BrookM wrote:Some of those new names make me feel that they are TRYING TOO HARD.
There just trying to inject a little flavor. Anyway, I'm seriously liking the Tomb Guard, and so I will probably make them the backbone of my army. Not getting any cavalry or chariots until they make better skeletal horses. The ones they have now look like skinny lego toys.
LunaHound wrote:Any solid news on whether we'll get new core skeletons at wave 2 release?
Rumours about late 2012 releases are still a bit shakey , but two sources say that in a late 2nd or 3rd wave, we will see new standard skeletons including cavalry and chariots.
vonjankmon wrote:Losing the ability to charge via magic hurts them a lot too, since that's basically the only way the TK currently function.
Couldn't agree less. If charging meant swinging first, I'd agree wholeheartedly, but going in initiative order really cuts the value of the charge down to...a point or three of static CR, and, in the case of some units, impact hits. IMHO, Any army that gets healing, since the healing is on the home turn only, is better off receiving a charge, since you get your first dose of healing after one round of melee, not two.
Second, with M4, charge rules were kinda broken for us. If a TK player (or anyone else with M4 or less) wants free bonus movement towards an enemy who is in legal theoretical charge range (erm, 16" for us), just declare a charge. On 2D6, pick the highest, you'll almost never move less than 4" on your failed charge, and often move 5 or 6". That's pure cheese. And if you really did intend to get stuck in, you're now at 10-12" range (if you were at exactly 16", so it's probably even less) for your magical charge.
Thoughts on the new leaks:
1. S6 bows...nice thought...not sure they're worth 50 points a model, though. You can't field enough of them to seriously threaten heavy infantry (thinking chaos warriors), and single models...well, S6 isn't that impressive when you're shooting at proper monsters. So, maybe they're useful against smaller units of heavy cav? Not enough to make me field them. They seem like they do roughly the same thing as a necrosphinx, but at S6 (and ranged).
2. The 15 point bump in chariots was probably inevitable, given that they now get ranks of 3 and the changes to impact hits. 350ish points for a unit of them is steepish, but certainly not unreasonable if you're looking for an elite army of constructs and you "need" to fill your core choices with "not foot skellies"
3. 4 point sword'n'board core skellies is AWESOME. 6 point skeletal bowmen is very reasonable, but I'm not sure with the nerfing of smiting that I'd still take sixty of them. I'd rather pay the old price and have them shoot twice a turn than have them shoot once for 6 points. They're still 95% as effective in melee as sword'n'board skellies, but those now cost but 2/3 as much...so....I may have to virtually abandon shooting and do a wholesale arm swop (go from 2x30 bowmen to 20 bowmen and 40 swordsmen?) Definitely not paying the point for LA or the point for a spear (even at WS6, paying 40+ points for ten S3 attacks is inefficient)
5. The 6+ regen on the heiro isn't terrible as a freebie on him, but it certainly wouldn't inspire me to put him in a serious unit...he might get hurt, and the regen would be in lieu (and equal to) parry anyway. So maybe put him in the little unit of 20 bows, then?
6. Arkhan...I agree that he's the eldrad of 40k, no TK player will leave home without him...except me. I just don't see myself having the points to fit him in, regardless of how overpowered he might turn out to be. If there's a nifty new model for him, I may use that to represent my heiro (I have settra, but I did him without the two bonus horses, and he's a TP on chariot)
7. Light of death changes are interesting. 3D6 is superficially better than 2D6+2, and it sounds like the affected units don't need LOS? The death of "all units with LOS to the casktet" isn't as big a nerf as I initially thought, since 8th edition effectively killed off MSU anyway. It sounds like the real loss here is the ability to instakill the enemy's entire complement of war machines (since those have 2-3 wounds and moderate to low leadership, and are rarely in range of the general, but almost always have LOS to the casket), but that was a little overpowered anyway. I'll take the ability to zap a unit that's deliberately "gamed" its LOS to avoid casket effects....what ever happened to the rumor that it adds power dice? That would be a much better reason to take it. Also, what about the rumor that it's no longer an immobile war machine?
8. Scorpions not charging on arrival is pure, unadulterated BS. Bolt throwers, cannons, and helblasters are just the start of what will insta-crump them on arrival if they don't get to charge (this could be mitigated slightly if arriving under a unit still counts as charging?). The mishap table was more than punishing enough...now, if you survive your arrival, you get to stand around looking stupid for a turn? No, thank you! I guess my 170 points worth of scorpions will come out of the list and contribute their points towards the necrosphinx. At the same time, the stalkers' gaze attack, if it affects war machines (?) would be a decent replacement, since you'd only need 2-3 wounds to achieve success?
Minsc wrote:... Killing Blow Tomb Guard on 5+? WS6, S4 w/ 4+/5+ save or WS6 S5 5+ save unit with 5+ killing blow? That... ouch. I feel sorry for Cavalry now.
That (4+/5++) would imply heavy armor, the KB spell, and the 5+ ward spell? Do they have heavy armor now? And getting both of those spells off seems unlikely... Although, if I can give them heavy armor and a shield, 4+/6++ save with KB seems perfectly nasty without magical augmentation. My preferred spell in that case would be smiting, not the KB one... I realize that the bonus attack from smiting wouldn't apply to supporting attacks, but against anything but the hardest armor, double the chance of a KB is less important than 50% more attacks in the first place. Statistically, I'm saying 50% more attacks (yielding 50% more KBs as a byproduct) is a better deal than 100% more KB results. What's really funny is how 5+ KB would wound a model that TG could normally only wound on 6s (so anything with T6 or better)...getting twice the wounds on a bloodthirster, for example...that would be a prime occasion for casting that spell on TG!
Tantras wrote:The stalker's gaze attack specifically states that it has no effect against anything with no initiative value, March. Sad, but true.
...I thought I remembered something about that...hence my caveat!
Minsc wrote:... Killing Blow Tomb Guard on 5+? WS6, S4 w/ 4+/5+ save or WS6 S5 5+ save unit with 5+ killing blow? That... ouch. I feel sorry for Cavalry now.
...I thought I remembered something about that...hence my caveat!
in those mixed models you use the highest I value. . So you would roll against the crews value.
8. Scorpions not charging on arrival is pure, unadulterated BS. Bolt throwers, cannons, and helblasters are just the start of what will insta-crump them on arrival if they don't get to charge (this could be mitigated slightly if arriving under a unit still counts as charging?). The mishap table was more than punishing enough...now, if you survive your arrival, you get to stand around looking stupid for a turn? No, thank you! I guess my 170 points worth of scorpions will come out of the list and contribute their points towards the necrosphinx.
There is still tactical value to ICFB scorpions. They must, however, be used much differently.Tomb kings have always been a force where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and this will apply even more with the coming changes.
-If I'm remembering correctly, there are now scouting archer fast cavalry... Imagine a force of this fast cav going in to screen or bother war machines. Tomb kings have always worked best when and possessed a unique ability to present opponents with "damned if you do, damned if you dont" situations. Make the enemy pick between firing grapeshot at your fast cav and firing a cannon ball at your scorpion. Make a shot at your scorpion risk scattering into your opponent's units. Screen the scorpion with the cavalry, thus protecting it from bolt throwers and presenting a catch 22; do nothing and my fast cav will charge your war machines. Destroy my fast cav, and my scorpion will charge you.
-I believe that wings and tails don't count for line of sight. Scorpions have a relatively low profile apart from the tail and could easily stay out of sight behind enemy cavalry. Even if staying behind an enemy unit will not completely hide the scorpion from line of sight, it will offer a good degree of protection.
-Scorpions could also be used to distract war machines from some of the new targets in the tomb king list. Look at the size and physical outline of these new snake-a-bobbers, not to mention the Necrosphynx. The only war machines not aimed at them will be the ones aimed at the Ushabti and whatever they are calling the bone giant now a days. Dropping a scorpion behind enemy lines will force the enemy to make a hard choice, picking between the force thundering toward them, or the one already upon them. Of any army, the new tomb kings will be perhaps the most vulnerable to shooting simply because of true LOS and their huge tall models.
-ICFB scorpions could also be use in conjunction with the banner of popping up out of the sand. Its true name escapes me, but if I remember correctly it allows 120 points to come up out of no where. That is a unit of 30 sword and board skellies unless there is something that I have overlooked. 30 skellies, 2-3 scorpions, and the unit that got the icon bearer to where ever this little maneuver is going down. Suddenly, a single unit has become a considerable tactical force.
In conclusion, Scorpions are still useful if used in a more devious and defensive manner. Single scorpions may no longer be a good option. They will need to be used in conjunction with other units, or taken in mass. Like I said in the beginning, a tomb king army has always been greater than the sum of its parts. Scorpions may have a few differences, but they can still be a useful part of the whole.
I can't help but get the feeling your glass is so half full that it's overflowing.
It's not that it's a worthless unit now, but rather it isn't nearly as good as it was before and it's more expensive in this book. (Rumored 100 pts vs 85)
Of all armies, Tomb Kings did not need a nerf to their playability. Sure if the stars aline an opponent may have to make a difficult choice between one shotting our new T8 Monster that can still insta-die to a cannon or killing our scorpion instead, but it's still not as good as it was before.
They did a lot of bs to our army that makes me not even want to play it anymore, unless a lot of whats on the interwebs is simply wrong.
Thunderfrog wrote:They did a lot of bs to our army that makes me not even want to play it anymore, unless a lot of whats on the interwebs is simply wrong.
I don't want this to sound too harsh, but this always seems to be the way of it. As good as the rumors are, there are always holes and important bits missed which after contemplation with the book in hand isn't so bad. We see this with every book, and indeed if the army hadn't changed its style or effect there would be no need for a new book. Having said that, I will be brand new to TKs coming from WoC so it will all be difficult for the first few games anyway.
I'm really looking forward to getting my mitts on some of those Sphinx.
I can't help but get the feeling your glass is so half full that it's overflowing.
It's not that it's a worthless unit now, but rather it isn't nearly as good as it was before and it's more expensive in this book. (Rumored 100 pts vs 85)
Of all armies, Tomb Kings did not need a nerf to their playability. Sure if the stars aline an opponent may have to make a difficult choice between one shotting our new T8 Monster that can still insta-die to a cannon or killing our scorpion instead, but it's still not as good as it was before.
They did a lot of bs to our army that makes me not even want to play it anymore, unless a lot of whats on the interwebs is simply wrong.
Yah... Maybe I am being a little over optimistic. I guess the guy drilling holes in everyone's cup just hasn't gotten to me yet. I understand why people are frustrated. There seems to be a short list of reasons.
1) Things are changing. Change is scary and upsetting, believe me I do understand. Because we changed edition, however, we can not look at this as "how they changed our army", but instead must look at this as a whole new army. This is not variations on old tomb kings. It is a whole new army under a whole new set of rules.
2) Tomb Kings are not powerful enough. Come on guys: Buffed Tomb Guard, the ability to field multiple toughness 8 monsters, 4 pt skellies, cheaper ushabti, and access to 2 of the regular lores. Many of these things are exactly what we have been wanting! One of the things that I have heard over and over since 8th is that there is no longer a best army. I'm sure that the new tomb kings will fit right in with the vast majority of whfb armies. If you are worried about tomb kings being at the bottom of the barrel, don't be. If you are waiting for the eighth edition incarnation of Daemons of Chaos style Cheese, keep waiting.
3) Cruddace Ruined My Nids!!! OMG HE SUCKS!!! Spare me. I don't play much 40k. Maybe he did ruin the tyranids. That has little to do with the tomb kings. That is a conversation for another time and another thread.
As far as the tomb kings being nerfed... I don't see where you are coming from. Like I said above, better tomb guard, cheaper (a lot cheaper) skellies, tons of options. Some individual things may be worse than last edition, but I do not see any evidence of an overall nerf. I'm sorry if you feel disappointed by the new stuff Thunderfrog, I really am. It is obvious that you like the tomb kings a lot. I hope that there is a light at the end of your wargaming tunnel when the book finally comes out.
Why does it look to me, very often, that when something is changed for the worse in WHFB, we see the typical crowd of a few "The Sky is Falling!" people, several people with earnest complaints... and then a bunch of people telling those with earnest complaints to stop being power gamers / cheesy gits that their multi-hundred dollar investment has gone in a downward spiral because "Change happens you can't always get your super powerful cheesy army"? I mean, if I suddenly made a new 40K Imperial Guard Codex and said "All Lasguns are S1, to represent their inability to successfully pose a threat to Space Marines", would people tell those who complained "Well things change and GW has a right to do what they want you shouldn't complain that you aren't getting the powerful codex you want"?
The issue is not "Tomb Kings aren't getting powerful units," as I've pointed out Tomb Guard are going to be terrifying vanilla and especially once they have a King attached w/ some buff spells. The issue is that this is a classic GW case of "Expensive models = new Must Have's", "Fluff changed to support new sales" (Who wants to bet at the Arkhan model costing at least $30 USD when sold?), and "Old models still have use at fraction of what it once was" (Particularly bad since this army book seems to invalidate the major Tomb King playstyles from before).
I can understand the want of people not wanting to see people whinge about the new rules. However, I'm starting to get sick of seeing people here on DakkaDakka going "Well you're only upset because you aren't getting your Daemon-tier Army Book", as though that's the only reason people might be upset with the changes.
JimLofa wrote:1) Things are changing. Change is scary and upsetting, believe me I do understand. Because we changed edition, however, we can not look at this as "how they changed our army", but instead must look at this as a whole new army. This is not variations on old tomb kings. It is a whole new army under a whole new set of rules.
It is the last line that causes my concern, not the rest. It should at least be similiar to keep continuity. I am also starting, but having read a fair amount about TK; the (apparent) changes seem odd. At best. Some may play well, but that is neither here nor there.
JimLofa wrote:2) Tomb Kings are not powerful enough. Come on guys: Buffed Tomb Guard, the ability to field multiple toughness 8 monsters, 4 pt skellies, cheaper ushabti, and access to 2 of the regular lores. Many of these things are exactly what we have been wanting! One of the things that I have heard over and over since 8th is that there is no longer a best army. I'm sure that the new tomb kings will fit right in with the vast majority of whfb armies. If you are worried about tomb kings being at the bottom of the barrel, don't be. If you are waiting for the eighth edition incarnation of Daemons of Chaos style Cheese, keep waiting.
Power itself I rarely see mentioned as why people play TK. Also, adding huge guys that can be insta-killed easily by things everyone always brings in their list is definitely relating to your next point more than this one. As I stated earlier, Cruddace actually states in the interview that the Tom King Wizards have no idea how their spells work.
JimLofa wrote:3) Cruddace Ruined My Nids!!! OMG HE SUCKS!!! Spare me. I don't play much 40k. Maybe he did ruin the tyranids. That has little to do with the tomb kings. That is a conversation for another time and another thread.
Cruddace didn't do it so much as the FAQ writer. HOWEVER one thing that seems . . . par for the course here is what you touched upon previously. Killing huge monsters is no harder in Fantasy than 40k, it seems easier actually. However it seems to designers that adding these huge easy to see and kill targets models is seen as something to help deal with the game changes. It is not.
I am new to collecting them, and will be doing so; but even as I am getting started I feel like I am losing out of some of what drew me to them in the first place.
vonjankmon wrote:Problem with fast cav archers in a TK army is since they can't march opposing units on foot can catch them.
Just another reason to leave my TK on the shelf.
Plenty of other uses for Fast Cav Archers in TK to use with the army... They had to be used creatively before... So it's not like there's a big, surprising change here.
No offense Ragnar4 but 4 of the 7 uses you listed in the other post involve sacrificing the archers...
I can sacrifice any unit, I'd very much like that unit to be good at other things too.
Minsc really hit it on the head. Virtually my entire TK army is full of stuff that is no longer very good and the entire play style of the TK have changed. Again they were only around for one iteration of an army book before this one but one reason I choose to play them was their unique play style. Now they're just another cookie cutter army. Boring.
They are certainly a bit homogenized. I'd say that the infantry and magic are the main cookie cutter factors at the moment. The whole living statue thing is unique though. I have trouble likening them to another warhammer army. Maybe beastmen. Both armies have cheep crummy core infantry, good expensive special infantry, decent core chariots and a ton of monsters. Both have the ability to field multiple units with unique deployment rules. It is a bit of a stretch however. What army/armies would you guys say the Tomb Kings closely resemble?
JimLofa wrote:They are certainly a bit homogenized. I'd say that the infantry and magic are the main cookie cutter factors at the moment. The whole living statue thing is unique though. I have trouble likening them to another warhammer army. Maybe beastmen. Both armies have cheep crummy core infantry, good expensive special infantry, decent core chariots and a ton of monsters. Both have the ability to field multiple units with unique deployment rules. It is a bit of a stretch however. What army/armies would you guys say the Tomb Kings closely resemble?
-Jim
lol thats easy they are vampire counts except with a new monster and a different paint scheme!
A Tomb Kings army is led by the mummified Tomb Kings themselves and supported by the Liche Priests. A Tomb King can be mounted in a chariot or even on a Khemrian Warsphinx. You can also field him on foot where his special 'My Will Be Done' rule means that every other model in the unit he is accompanied by will share his WS of 6
A Tomb Kings army is led by the mummified Tomb Kings themselves and supported by the Liche Priests. A Tomb King can be mounted in a chariot or even on a Khemrian Warsphinx. You can also field him on foot where his special 'My Will Be Done' rule means that every other model in the unit he is accompanied by will share his WS of 6
This is one of the few things I like:
The chariot legions of the Tomb Kings have ever been a formidable sight. They can field an entire army on chariots, each of which will deliver D6 Impact Hits on the charge. When ranked up, chariots can add +1 Strength for every rank in the unit. Which means a unit of six Skeleton Chariots (in two ranks of three) will inflict 3D6 Strength 5 Impact Hits on the charge!
The TK are NOT stealing a 'Hat of hitting' from VC, they are reasserting mastery of this particularly Nehekharan ability that has supposedly fallen within their arsenal ever since WH: Undead allowed Mummy lords to take a TK's Crown that had this exact effect.
The first TK book rejigged this into an auto-cast spell of going berserk, and now it's been restored to its original elegant form.
So rather than TK turning into VC on this regard, instead VC have stolen a TK trick and are now going to be made to pay as our elite infantry mow down their second-rate shamblers and give the filthy Nagash-lovers a traitor's execution.
So we no longer get to force through a Magic phase flank charge by a Chariot unit to virtually guarantee a break (I can't remember a single pre-8ed game in which a unit held, nor one in which my charge was dispelled). No biggie, we've got the best generals in the world and losing our 'win button' just keeps us on our phalanges.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Today's Games Workshop dot com article wrote:I'm also in the middle of painting a horde of Skeleton Archers, who serve as the bodyguard for Khalida herself - if I can successfully cast Incantation of Righteous Smiting on them, they can fire fifty shots a turn using Khalida's Ballistic Skill 3.
Smiting allows you to fire in the magic phase, like it use to.
Problem being you're only ever going to get it going off on multiple units if you go for the Mega-version AND clump everyone close to the Liche Priest that managed to acquire the spell, which very much becomes an "All your eggs in one basket" sort of thing. Gone are the days of multiple Liche Priests providing multiple bubbles of Invocations the same type. It would have been nice if they at least kept the spells bound or something, like Warrior Priests.
This leads me to wonder, though, if Warrior Priests and what-not will be getting their own lore now. Warrior Priests are now Wizards of Sigmar, and get a Sigmarite Lore.
You know everyone keeps going on and on about the big nasties in the book, as well WS6 units of Tomb Guard and such - how about just simply huge hordes of spear armed skeletons? Say 60 or so big, horde formation with a Tomb King up front. Thats ALOT of attacks at WS6 at a pretty cheap cost. Oh yeah then throw in KB on these guys? Wow.
From everything I'm reading, it looks like Tomb Kings will fit great into 8th edition of huge units not giving up victory points. Say 2 big blocks of regular skellies, backed up by a couple archer units, throw in some chariot units to flank opponents tied up with the "big blocks of skellies you can't ever destroy". Thats even before you throw in Scorpions or such for warmachine hunting.
Yes having some big monsters is nice, but then again, much like the Arachnarock spider - they are very expensive and can cost you the game if you lose them (VP of 100 or more deciding). I'm sure every list will be flavored by the owner's taste (maybe a big unit of special choices), but if folks decide to go heavy core choices, I think it'll be a very competitive list.
The chariot legions of the Tomb Kings have ever been a formidable sight. They can field an entire army on chariots, each of which will deliver D6 Impact Hits on the charge. When ranked up, chariots can add +1 Strength for every rank in the unit. Which means a unit of six Skeleton Chariots (in two ranks of three) will inflict 3D6 Strength 5 Impact Hits on the charge!
Unless it changes in the new book, TK chariots are "light" chariots, meaning they only give you D3 impact hits instead of D6. Still, better than a sharp stick in the eye, and a favorite core choice for me, but not quite as devastating as a regular D6.
It has, they are normal chariots now, do D6 impact hits and now cost 55 points.
So more expensive but more hurt on the charge, but with how this edition works with combat I'm not sure how great that will be compared to some of the other things you can take with the new army book.
Last edition a unit of TK chariots would usually basically wipe the first row of the enemies block giving them basically a free turn in combat, now...well we'll see, if the chariots are still only 3 wounds with a 5+ save...could be iffy.
asmith wrote:Could someone post the pics in a new thread, or update the first post, so that it's possible to look at them without about 40 mouse clicks?
From nuts and bolts -- Next to the set of page numbers is a button that says "go". Click it, and then punch in the page number you want to go to.
kirsanth wrote:From nuts and bolts -- Next to the set of page numbers is a button that says "go". Click it, and then punch in the page number you want to go to.
Blooooody Nora. All my time on Dakka and I never realised that.
Manchu wrote:The idea is not to drown other topics in a flurry of different threads all reporting about the same news item.
Unfortunately the way the system works now it is virtually impossible to find news or rumors without reading 30 irrelevant pages with the current system. I'm sure it works fine for people who are on dakka all day everyday, but I find it's pretty worthless.
Manchu wrote:The idea is not to drown other topics in a flurry of different threads all reporting about the same news item.
Unfortunately the way the system works now it is virtually impossible to find news or rumors without reading 30 irrelevant pages with the current system. I'm sure it works fine for people who are on dakka all day everyday, but I find it's pretty worthless.
I understand where you are comming from. Warseer for example , they edit later info backs to the first post in first page.
This way we dont have to go through 30+ pages correct?
I have actually been told from a few sources that the info from GW says that the contents are not changing at all in the Battalian, just a huge price increase. Distribution/Sales info says "Package change only" and a jump from $90 to $120! Completely insane!
I'm not trying to justify GW or anything, but this potential price increase may mean less/more as the Battalion would likely come with the newer miniatures of a 2nd wave, where more of the core units are being done IIRC.
So a price increase may not be seen as so bad if it were to come with new models...
Just Dave wrote:I'm not trying to justify GW or anything, but this potential price increase may mean less/more as the Battalion would likely come with the newer miniatures of a 2nd wave, where more of the core units are being done IIRC.
So, i just read the army book. Looks cool. I'm excited. A few things that struck me:
1) The War Sphinx is really cheep. Fully upgraded it costs just under 250. At that point level, all its attacks are poison (but not the attacks of the crew), and it has a str. 4 breath weapon in addition to its thunderstomp and super-duper-template-stomp.
2) The necropolis knights can take an upgrade in order to get the new ICFB rule. The new IFCB (entombed in the sands) has a nicer misfire chart than the old one.
3) The Hierotitan is cool. It has 3 bound spells and every time a wizard casts a tomb king lore spell within 12(?) inches there is a bonus to the casting total.
4) The casket of souls adds d3 dice to your power pool.
5) Tomb guard are only one point cheaper than before, and the halberd upgrade is another two points.
6) Swarms are now special, no longer limited to one unit.
7) There is a hero level character that gives the unit it is in hatred. It costs somewhere around 50 or 60 points.
8) The cavalry are what we thought they were.
9) There is no limit to extra strength for chariot ranks. Each chariot crew member has two attacks.
All in all, these new tomb kings are an army of synergy. There is no all star unit in this army, but when used in combination with each other the different units make what I would rank as a slightly above average army book. I am excited.
-Jim
p.s. I just want to point out that if someone wanted to, he could fit 8-9 sphinxes into a single 3k list. Not that I am recommending that, but I'm sure someone will at least toy with the idea.
In a way, I kind of look forward to the cool conversions people are going to be making for Necropolis Knights. I can't imagine many people will be buying the crazy expensive, and crazy silly, kits. Should be some cool things.
Did the last battalion only allow you to make X amount of archers & the rest had to be something else? I think I vaguely remember that- & this one you can do whatever your little heart desires. Still $120...*insert joke about needing to rob actual ancient Egyptian tomb to pay for new TK*
giant stegadon wrote:Did the last battalion only allow you to make X amount of archers & the rest had to be something else? I think I vaguely remember that- & this one you can do whatever your little heart desires. Still $120...*insert joke about needing to rob actual ancient Egyptian tomb to pay for new TK*
Nope there's enough bows for everyone, so run for those old boxes I'm currently building 20 archers out of my first battalion, still wondering what to do with the rest. Should I just give 'em bows also?
I can confirm that the new battalion is 120 USD and only comes with 8 more skellies than the previous one. So, no new models.
If GW is trying to kill Fantasy they are doing a good job. I like the new models, but there seems to be a substantial number of people who do not. The new book does not have the old TK play style. This will turn off older players. There were some people in the store thinking about starting TK, but after seeing the book they decided not to.
Yeah I get kinda excited for stuff then realize now you have to use stupid 40+ man units I will never get around to painting and the models cost $3-5 a pop for plastic and I lose interest almost immediately. On top of that when you see your $140 unit get wiped off the board to one spell you can't stop it's not a good feeling.
lord_blackfang wrote:I think what's killing Fantasy (besides the rules) is the absurd cost of basic infantry.
Why do you say fantasy is being killed? Do you mean it is losing market share as its player base leaves the hobby or move to other games, or are you just personally frustrated by some of the drastic changes in rules and game-play trends we have seen in the last year or so?
Also, maybe I'm missing something here, but if GW models are so unreasonably priced then can you show me a company with reasonably priced range of models comparable to GWs? What would you consider to be reasonable prices? What quality would you expect for those prices? When I look at what comes in a box of GW models I see what is for all intents and purposes low priced models with a lot of options that allow players to customize and convert their models so their army is different from anyone else's.
Now, when that is put in the context of a game I agree that infantry costs can mount. Almost every army has the option to take cheep core infantry and the rule system rewards the practice of taking large blocks of infantry. Most armies, however, also allow players to fill core points with less expensive options. We must also remember that games can be played at a variety of point values. If a player wants to keep his expenditures low, he can have a ton of fun playing in 500, 1000, or 1500 point games without taking out a second mortgage to finance the purchase of models.
Does anyone have any idea how effective skeletal horsemen are/will be? I'm hesitant to buy 2 battalions only to end up with 16 horsemen that I may never use.
lord_blackfang wrote:I think what's killing Fantasy (besides the rules) is the absurd cost of basic infantry.
Why do you say fantasy is being killed? Do you mean it is losing market share as its player base leaves the hobby or move to other games, or are you just personally frustrated by some of the drastic changes in rules and game-play trends we have seen in the last year or so?
Also, maybe I'm missing something here, but if GW models are so unreasonably priced then can you show me a company with reasonably priced range of models comparable to GWs? What would you consider to be reasonable prices? What quality would you expect for those prices? When I look at what comes in a box of GW models I see what is for all intents and purposes low priced models with a lot of options that allow players to customize and convert their models so their army is different from anyone else's.
Now, when that is put in the context of a game I agree that infantry costs can mount. Almost every army has the option to take cheep core infantry and the rule system rewards the practice of taking large blocks of infantry. Most armies, however, also allow players to fill core points with less expensive options. We must also remember that games can be played at a variety of point values. If a player wants to keep his expenditures low, he can have a ton of fun playing in 500, 1000, or 1500 point games without taking out a second mortgage to finance the purchase of models.
-Jim
Wut? I'm not going to debate the quality of GW's recent models (even ones that people don't dig like the Dreadknight look good from a technical standpoint) but calling them low priced is absurd.
For instance these models will run you a little over $40 for the lot of ten. Compare that to this model being $12.95 for one and it looks terrible. The tiny bit of metal does not justify the much higher price.
Price alone isn't the issue. With 8th edition huge units are highly encouraged and the price for the models is really adding up. Combine that with older models being repackaged to have a higher price per model and new plastics being more expensive based on replacing equal value metal models (such as Phoenix Guard and Tomb Guard) and it's hard to see the game as "low priced." Saying you can just play 500 point games is silly since the game isn't popular at that level (people actively turn that down at stores when asked). It's like saying Warmachine can be enjoyed with just the starter boxes when no one plays that way.
Deus_Morte wrote:Does anyone have any idea how effective skeletal horsemen are/will be? I'm hesitant to buy 2 battalions only to end up with 16 horsemen that I may never use.
lord_blackfang wrote:I think what's killing Fantasy (besides the rules) is the absurd cost of basic infantry.
Why do you say fantasy is being killed? Do you mean it is losing market share as its player base leaves the hobby or move to other games, or are you just personally frustrated by some of the drastic changes in rules and game-play trends we have seen in the last year or so?
Fantasy is losing market share. This is even evident in GW stores, which is rather ironic.
JimLofa wrote:
Also, maybe I'm missing something here, but if GW models are so unreasonably priced then can you show me a company with reasonably priced range of models comparable to GWs? What would you consider to be reasonable prices? What quality would you expect for those prices? When I look at what comes in a box of GW models I see what is for all intents and purposes low priced models with a lot of options that allow players to customize and convert their models so their army is different from anyone else's.
Other companies stuff is much cheaper than GW. The detail varies, but there is some really good stuff that is much cheaper than GW. Just check out Perry Brothers, or Brigade Games. 1.50 USD or less for a highly detailed plastic miniature is reasonable. Although GWs kits come with some options, they rarely come with all of the options you want in the game.
JimLofa wrote:
Now, when that is put in the context of a game I agree that infantry costs can mount. Almost every army has the option to take cheep core infantry and the rule system rewards the practice of taking large blocks of infantry. Most armies, however, also allow players to fill core points with less expensive options. We must also remember that games can be played at a variety of point values. If a player wants to keep his expenditures low, he can have a ton of fun playing in 500, 1000, or 1500 point games without taking out a second mortgage to finance the purchase of models.
-Jim
Small point Fantasy games do not work as well as small point 40k games. Having two blocks of troops and a general is just not that entertaining. If you avoid taking models with enough wounds, then you will get rolled in Fantasy, even in a casual setting. The skeleton horsemen and chariots do not seem particularly playable.
spaceelf wrote:I can confirm that the new battalion is 120 USD and only comes with 8 more skellies than the previous one. So, no new models.
If GW is trying to kill Fantasy they are doing a good job. I like the new models, but there seems to be a substantial number of people who do not. The new book does not have the old TK play style. This will turn off older players. There were some people in the store thinking about starting TK, but after seeing the book they decided not to.
This is correct, I will also confirm it.
And further, GW is apparently repackaging the existing core troop skeleton box so that it will have less models while the price per model will most certainly go up like they have done in the recent past for Orc Warriors (19 for $35 US, now 10 for $29 US) and Cadian Shock Troops and other sets as well.
??? Tomb Kings packaging hasn't changed in years. But some of it at least likely will NOW similarly to how they quietly raised the price of the Orc Warriors as I detailed above.
kirsanth wrote:So I have seen most of the rules/units posted but still nothing about the special characters.
Off the top of my head.
Arkhan is a level 5 wizard thanks to an item. I believe he knows all spells for Lore of Death. S5/T5. Can ride a chariot which can upgrade to a flying chariot.
Settra is WS7 and confers that skill on models/units within 6". Unsure if he can be a l1 wizard and Hierophant...
Khalida confers her BS3 and Poisoned Attacks on any unit of archers she joins, supposedly costs over 300 points and not very good...
Prince Apophas is made up of scarabs. Has 4 wounds, regen, mediocre combat stats, can fly. Any unit he flies over takes 2d6 s2 hits.
Not sure about the rest of them. There's a lot more info up on Warseer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From Tomb Kings of Khemri.
Special Rules
- Never ever march for any reason.
- Always need a Hierophant (wizard of the highest level in army), and if he dies, standard Ld crumbles.
- On that note, Core choices are generally Ld 5, Special and Rare are 8, characters are 7-10.
- Beneath the sand units come up in Remaining Moves part.
- The Curse: Killer of Tomb King suffers D6 S5 wounds, Tomb Prince is D6 S4. All units involved in his death suffer.
- King's "My Will Be Done:" King gives WS6 to unit he has joined, whether on foot, mounted, etc. Doesn't affect mounts.
Characters
Lords
*Settra the Imperishable - His MWBD is 6" bubble instead of only his unit. (25 short of 500 points)
*Khalida - gives BS3 and Poison shots to bowmen units she joins...otherwise is ASF with I9 poison attacks. (as many points as are days in the year)
*Arkhan the Black (60x6 points)
*Grand Hierophant Khatep (30 less than Arkhan)
Tomb King (17x10 points)
Liche High Priest (5 points more than King)
Heroes
*The Herald Nekaph (1/3 the points of Arkhan)
*Prince Apophas (10 more than Nekaph)
*Ramhotep the Visionary (10 less than Nekaph)
Tomb Prince
Liche Priest (70 points base)
Tomb Herald - All heralds are oathed to a single king or whatever; when oathed person takes wound, on a 2+ it's bounced to the herald; Stats are mostly 4's and 3's.
Core (all command groups are 10 per dude for total 30)
Skeleton Warriors - as said
Skeleton Bowmen - Light Armor is an upgrade
Skeleton Horsemen - as stated
Skeleton Horse Archers - Scouting Fast Cav archers? yes please!
Chariots - as stated
Special
Tomb Guard
Tomb Swarms
Tomb Scorpions (killing blow, MR(1), Poison Attacks
Carrion
Ushtabi - S4 and GW stock. May swap GW for AHW or Great Bow (S6, 30:, volley fire) for free (only one option may be taken) (also hot models)
Sepulcheral Stalkers - WS3 instead of 4. Transmogrifying gaze can target any model/unit (i think you can pick out characters) within 8". Model suffers 1 artillery dice worth for each stalker in the unit (mmm, 60 hits....), S1, roll vs Initiative, no armor save
Necropolis Knights
Warsphinx - thundercrush works against infantry, warbeasts, and swarms. (210 points)
Rare
Necrosphinx - 1 more attack than warsphinx
Casket of Souls - T10, 3 wounds, bound level 5, 48", unit takes Ld test on 3D6, suffers wounds equal to the difference, no armor save; on a 3+ bounces to next unit within 6". This continues until eith er you roll a 1-2 or there are no other units in range. Units can only be hit once.
Screaming Skull Catapult - magical flaming attacks, causes panic for single wound. 90/30 points
Necrolith Colossus (bone giant) - Unstoppable assault: for every wound that goes unsaved, gets an extra attack; these extra attacks can produce yet more extra attacks, etc.
Hieortitan - bone giant priest. has Shem's Burning Gaze (light) and Spirit Leech (death)
Magic Items
Destroyer of Entities (80) - +2S, heroic killing blow, sweep attack auto-hits all models in BTB Blade of Antarhak (50) - each wound caused regains a wound in unit or him; if full, he gains regeneration
Cloak of Dunes (50) - fly, if flying over enemy unit they suffer 2D6 S2 hits, can be used repeatedly, and hit every unit flown over each turn.
Golden Death Mask (60) - causes terror; enemy unit within 6" cannot use General's Ld Scrolls of Mighty Incantation (50) - One use; gain dice to use on this spell equal to caster level; these are not power dice.
Enkhil's kanopi (25) - bound level 3; dispel all Remains in Play spells on a 2+ each; gain D3 power dice for each successfully removed
Standard of the Undying Legion - bound level 5 - augment that regens D6 +2 skellies (so also regens D3+1 due to lore)
Banner of Hidden Dead (90) - pick one unit over 150 points; it gains entombed beneath the sands, if the marker is placed within 12" of the banner, may reroll scatter and artillery dice.
Lords
Tomb King - The Curse, Flammable, My Will Be Done. Has LA and HW, and can take a GW, Flail, Spear, and/or S. Mounts: Skeleton Chariot or a Khemrian Warsphinx.
Well on the surface one might not notice too much has changed from the Tomb King of old...however there are a few noted differences. His MWBD is no longer a spell based ability, and instead transfers his unmodified(important note)weapon skill to his unit. As far as combat characters go, he is a solid hitter, and a very respectable tank due to higher than average Lords starting wounds. I expect to see a lot of Tomb King's fielded with the Death Mask, GW, and insert your remaining defensive kit here. Mounting him really only seems to be a liability IMHO as it will often be easier to clear out his ride from below him, or paste them both in the case of the monster mount.
High Liche Priest - Level 3 Wizard, can upgrade to level 4. Can choose the Lore of Nehekhara, Light, or Death. Mounts: Skeletal Steed.
Heroes
Tomb Prince - The Curse, Flammable, My Will Be Done. Has LA and HW, and can take a GW, Flail, Spear, and/or S. Mounts: Skeleton Chariot or a Khemrian Warsphinx.
Along with his Lord counterpart, the Tomb Prince has remained much the same, with the MWBD being the notable difference. He shares the same strengths and weakness to fire, and has the same mundane and mount options. Tomb Princes seem to be the way to go, if MWBD spam is your goal, as they are cheaper than the TK and the WS difference is negligible at best.
Tomb Herald - Flammable, Killing Blow, Sworn Bodyguard. Has LA and HW, and can take a GW, Flail, Spear, Halberd, and/or S. Mounts: Skeleton Chariot or a Skeletal Steed. May upgrade to a BSB.
Extreme Makeover Icon Bearer Edition! This is the new Icon Bearer, with a few changes, notably his fear of fire and his bodyguard rule, which acts as a pseudo LOS for a nominated TK/TP in his unit once per phase, where the Herald steps in and takes the hit instead of Jack Skellington. He might see some use in Construct heavy lists, or to provide some protection for DoE wielding TK's, but I am not so sure on him yet. I would be more interested if there was a Magic Banner I had to have, as the list is somewhat limited in who can take them.
Liche Priest - Level 1 Wizard, can upgrade to level 2. Can choose the Lore of Nehekhara, Light, or Death. Mounts: Skeletal Steed.
Necrotect - Flammable, Stone Shaper, Wrath of the Creator, Hatred. Has LA, HW, and Whip.
The new hero choice, and boy is he a feisty one! He is fairly close to a Herald in stats, but that isn't where his power lies. He can grant nearby Constructs Regeneration 6+(Game Changer Alert...). Oh, he also gives the unit he is in Hatred. Which is why you take him. Couples quite nicely with the changes to MWBD, and this guy is actually fairly cheap. I expect to see him in just about every list.
Core
Skeleton Warriors - Unit size 10+ Has HW and S, can also take LA and/or Spears.
They are cheaper now, and lost a unit cap, which is great. They will make decent tar pits, or speed bumps depending how large you field them, and whether or not you give them character support. At this point, I think honestly fielding them as is, is the way to go, but Spears may have merit if you plan on making them a combat unit with buffs, but I would advise just starting with a unit that is good at combat.
Skeleton Archers - Unit size 10+ Arrows of Asaph. Has HW and Bow, can also take LA.
Same deal as the warrior counterparts really. Would have loved to see stand and shoot as a charge reaction, but it isn't there. Shooting is a mixed bag in 8th, well non war machine fire, for the most part. A lot of it probably comes down to your current meta as well. After talking to GM today though, he was quick to open my mind to the merit that they have for flushing out core, and creating soft spots for squishy priests to land.
Skeleton Horsemen - Unit size 5+ Vanguard. Has Spear and S, can also take LA.
Fear the TK "heavy" cavalry...well technically most armies do, but they shouldn't. These guys just don't catch a break. I mean they aren't terrible, but cavalry is rather hit and miss, and usually reserved for really "good" cavalry units. There might be some uses for being faster and going after war machines, etc. I don't see it yet, but the book isn't technically out at this point either.
Skeleton Horse Archers - Unit size 5+ Arrows of Asaph, Fast Cavalry, and Scouts.
These guys are pretty versatile for their points. While they aren't likely to just fell war machines in one go, unless you field a LARGE unit, they can be pretty good at harassing, and diverting. They can get in close and either pepper the enemy, or move in for the charge on subsequent rounds on VERY soft targets.
Skeleton Chariots - Unit size 3+ And the Tomb Kings Rode to War, Arrows of Asaph, Chariot Legions. Has Spears and Bows. One unit may take a magic standard up to 25 points.
Initially I was pretty much impressed with these guys. The drivers picked up an extra attack, they gained rank bonus at 3 wide, and gained a version of the Ogre Bull Charge picking up a strength bonus for impact hits for ranks behind the first. Also their impact hits increased to 1d6. However, they did retain a shoddy armor save, and a hefty points increase for their trouble, as well as losing their Fast Cavalry rule. They are able to take a magic standard, though it is one unit of chariots only, and capped at 25 points. They are core though, and can be pretty solid flankers due to a higher move than most of the army.
Special
Tomb Guard - Unit size 10+ Killing Blow. Has LA and S, may take Halberds, and may take a magic standard up to 50 points.
Good old Tomb Guard, now without the hindrance of a unit size cap. Also a new equipment option is very much welcomed. They lost magical attacks in exchange for having the KB special rule, which means you will have to find other ways of dealing with Ethereal units, and Forest Spirits are happier(if they can stop being emo long enough in 8th edition), but also means you are free to kit them out with Flaming Attacks from a certain Magic Standard if you should choose. Halberds are a pretty solid choice, as it gives you some solid hitting power, and you don't have exactly "stellar" armor saves to begin with, so the S isn't missed too much. I expect these to be fielded as mainstay combat troops, or as "death stars" loaded up with a few characters. I am thinking unit sizes of 30+ will be the normal.
Necropolis Knights - Unit size 3+ Animated Construct, Killing Blow(Riders only), Poisoned Attacks(Necroserpent only), Stone Hide. Has Spear, may be upgraded to have the Entombed Beneath the Sands special rule.
The lovingly posed snake surfing knights...They have a decent armor save at least, and can do some damage in combat, but Bloodcrushers they are not. Pretty pricey as well, though might have some decent uses popping up from below to try and hit flanks and rears of engaged enemies.
Tomb Scorpion - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Killing Blow, Magic Resistance(1), Poisoned Attacks.
The scorpion lost a wound for his troubles, and didn't gain anything. He remains the same as ever, with his main role being to hunt soft targets. Not a bad choice by any means, but nothing to really jump up and down about now that he can't just pop up and into a war machine.
Ushabti - Unit size 3+ Animated Construct, Arrows of Asaph. Has GW and HW, may swap GW for either Great Bows or Additional HWs.
I have seen quite a few folks who are very excited for the Great Bow option, and I have to initially disagree with the excitement. They do not have a greater BS, and are still a large points investment for what is by default a single shot weapon. They lost the base strength 6, and with it the lovely high strength Stomp attack. I won't go out and say they are terrible because they did have a significant drop in points, but they remain a really cool model at least.
Tomb Swarm - Unit size 2-10 Entombed Beneath the Sands, Poisoned Attacks.
Drop in points, and moved to Special choice. These guys are honestly probably a better buy than a Tomb Scorpion if you want to delegate something to hide and pop up for dedicated War Machine hunting. They aren't anything special, but they should do the job, and for the cost of 2 bases, you will end up with more attacks, and wounds than a single scorpion, and have some points to spare.
Carrion - Unit size 3+ Fly.
Khemrian Warsphinx - Unit size 1 and 4 crew Animated Construct, Howdah Crew, Killing Blow(Crew only), Large Target, Terror, Thundercrush Attack. Crew come with Spears, Warsphinx may take Envenomed Sting and/or Fiery Roar upgrades.
This is something I am excited for. The breath weapon upgrade is, as its name implies, flaming. Which is a pretty useful these days. It has the lowest Initiative possible, whilst still having one, so will need to pray to dodge PoS and PSoX, but what Undead army wants to get hit by those? Granted a Hydra beats it(barely), and is a chunk less, he still sees play. These guys are fantastic at churning large infantry blocks. Thundercrush, crew attacks, and Thunderstomp can lay the serious hurt. To maximize your Thundercrush, try to boost the WS with Lore of Light.
Sepulchral Stalkers - Unit size 3+ Animated Construct, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Transmogrifying Gaze. Has Halberds.
These guys look pretty neat. The gaze would be great if it was allowed to tag War Machines, and as such, there are actually only several realistic targets for it. Most of which have better options available to you. They may prove to be decent harassment units, but would love it if the Wizards had access to Shadows.
Rare
Necrolith Colossus - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Arrows of Asaph, Large Target, Terror, and Unstoppable Assault. Has HW, may take Additional HW, GW, or Bow of the Desert
Traded in his armor for Toughness and a points drop. He can do some solid damage on blocks, especially with a WS boost.
Hierotitan - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Large Target, Spirit Conduit, and Terror. Has Icon of Ptra and Scales of Usirian.
A Liche buried in a Bone Giant of old, with fluff describing it basically as a giant piece of "bling"... This is your magic buffing statue of doom. Similar to the Colossus, with less attack. He will work best if you have multiple wizards nearby, as he can increase the casting levels. Has the default spells from the Lores of Light and Death as Bound Spells, and isn't too terribly priced. Will be a decent pick should you decide to go magic heavy, and likely mandatory in that event.
Necrosphinx - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Decapitating Strike, Fly, Killing Blow, Large Target, and Terror. May be upgraded to take Envenomed Sting.
He flies, his wings can't support him, get over it. Maybe he turned in a few millenniums’ worth of frequent flyer miles, maybe he stole Eldar Grav technology, who knows/cares. This is your monster killer. He is pretty good at it as well. Flying is really what makes this guy tick. As without marching, it does make him pretty fast still. And while it might not be his purpose, does give him the ability to maneuver to other targets as needed(war machines, etc.). Decapitating strike lets one attack hit max strength and HKB which is nice, but not exactly dependable, so don't get caught with your pants down praying for it.
Screaming Skull Catapult - Unit size 1 Screaming Skull Catapult and 3 Skeleton Crew Screaming Skulls. Crew come with HW and LA, Screaming Skull Catapult may be upgraded to take Skulls of the Foe.
Overall still a very useful piece of artillery. Flaming and magical attacks that cause panic from one wound is pretty solid, just like it was. No more double tapping, which is sad, but overall this thing is still worth its weight in gold. The upgrade became more expensive, most likely because of the Death Mask, which couples quite nicely with this piece.
Casket of Souls - Unit Size 1 Casket of Souls, 1 Keeper of the Casket, and 2 Casket Guards. Covenant of Power, Killing Blow(Casket Guard only), Light of Death, and Unleashed Souls. Keeper of the Casket Has LA and HW, Casket Guard come with LA and GWs.
The Casket underwent some serious changes as well. Moving to a Rare selection, and no longer a character mount is a good thing. One or more of them on the field act as a HE Standard of Sorcery which is quite awesome, and Light of Death is now a Bound Spell, but you can't use it is you moved. The Light however is better as it is a LD test on three dice, and bounces on a 3+ to enemy units within 6". You are not able to hit the same enemy more than once a phase though. Has a chance to ping anyone near if it dies. The Casket Guard should be noted as not being Tomb Guard anymore, they have lower stats now.
Magic Items
Destroyer of Eternities(Tomb King on Foot Only) - Magic Weapon that grants +2 Strength and the Heroic Killing Blow ability. Can exchange all of the wielder's attacks to inflict one automatic hit on all enemy models in base contact. Will hit both rider and mount, and will only hit the model involved in a challenge where applicable, these hits also benefit from +2 Strength and HKB.
Blade of Antarhak - Magic Weapon that for every unsaved wound inflicted by the blade, the wielder regains one wound, if the wielder is already at their starting wounds, they gain Regeneration until the end of the next player turn.
Golden Death Mask of Kharnut - Enchanted Item that grants the bearer Terror, in addition all enemy units within 6" cannot make use of their General's Inspiring Presence rule or their BSB's Hold Your Ground rule.
Cloak of the Dunes(Infantry Character on Foot Only) - Enchanted Item that allows bearer to fly, in addition if the bearer moves over any unengaged enemy units in the remaining moves phase, that unit suffers 2d6 Strength 2 hits distributed as shooting. The bearer may move over several units hitting them all, but will only cause one set of hits per unit per movement phase.
Neferra's Scrolls of Mighty Incantations - Arcane Item, one use only. Declare use prior to casting a spell, the Wizard adds a number of bonus dice equal to his caster level to the Power Dice that they were going to use(you must use at least one PD from the pool). These bonus dice do not count as PD, however any double rolled while casting this spell will result in Irresistible Force and a Miscast.
Enkhil's Kanopi - Arcane Item, Bound Spell Power Level 3, if successfully cast roll a 1d6 for each Remains In Play Spell on the table. On a 2+ that spell is immediately dispelled. Adds 1d3 PD to your pool for each spell dispelled this way.
Standard of the Undying Legion - Magic Standard, Bound Spell Level 5, Augment Spell if successfully cast the bearer's unit immediately regains 1d6+2 wounds worth of models.
Banner of the Hidden Dead - Magic Standard, Nominate one of your units of Infantry, Cavalry, or Chariots with the Nehekharan Undead rule that has yet to deploy, and is no greater than 150 points. That unit gains the Entombed Beneath the Sands rule, and when that unit emerges, you must place the marker within 12" of the banner's bearer. Additionally any units emerging from EBtS with a marker within 12" of the banner's bearer may re roll the artillery and scatter dice when emerging.
Lore of Nehekhara
Lore Attribute - The Restless Dead: Each time a wizard successfully casts an augment spell from the Lore of Nehekhara on a friendly Nehekharan Undead unit, that unit regains 1d3 + 1 wounds worth of models. Units with the Animated Constructs Rule can only ever regain a single lost wound this way, per magic phase.
Signature Spell - Khsar's Incantation of the Desert Wind
Casting: 8+ [Boost 16+]
Range: 12" Radius [Boost 24" Radius]
Augment Spell If successful targets all friendly unengaged Nehekharan Undead units within 12"/24", those units can immediately make a normal move as it were the Remaining Moves phase. No unit may move more than once per magic phase per this spell, but may still be targeted in order to use the Lore Attribute.
1 - Djaf's Incantation of Cursed Blades
Casting: 7+ [Boost 10+]
Range: 12" [Boost 24"]
Augment Spell Target unit within 12"/24" gains the Killing Blow ability for close combat attacks until the start of the caster's next magic phase. If the target already has the Heroic Killing Blow/Killing Blow ability, the ability will trigger on a 5+ instead of a 6+.
2 - Neru's Incantation of Protection
Casting: 9+ [Boost 18+]
Range: 12" [Boost 12" Radius]
Augment Spell Target unit/all friendly Nehekharan Undead units gain a 5+ ward save until the start of the caster's next magic phase.
3 - Ptra's Incantation of Righteous Smiting
Casting: 9+ [Boost 18+]
Range: 12" [Boost 24" Radius]
Augment Spell Target unit/all friendly Nehekharan Undead units has their attacks characteristic increased by one until the start of the caster's next magic phase. Additionally if the target(s) are armed with a bow or great bow, they gain the Multiple Shots (2) rule.
4 - Usirian's Incantation of Vengeance
Casting: 10+ [Boost 13+]
Range: 18" [Boost 36"]
Hex Spell The target unit suffers - 1d3 to its movement (to a minimum of one) and treats all terrain (including open ground) as Dangerous Terrain until the start of the caster's next magic phase.
5 - Usekhp's Incantation of Desiccation
Casting: 11+ [Boost 22+]
Range: 24" [Boost 24"]
Hex Spell The target has -1 Strength and -1 Toughness (both to a minimum of one) / -1d3 Strength and Toughness (both to a minimum of one) until the start of the Caster's Next Magic Phase.
6 - Sakhmet's Incantation of the Skullstorm
Casting: 15+ [Boost 25+]
Range: Artillery Die x Wizard Level [Boosted Artillery Die x Wizard Level]
Remains in Play Magical Vortex Place the small/large template and nominate direction. Misfire centers template on caster and moves in a random direction. Models touched by template suffer a Strength 4 hit.
Special Characters
Settra the Imperishable - The Curse, Flammable, My Will Be Done, and Settra the Great. Has The Blessed Blade of Ptra, LA, Chariot of the Gods, The Crown of Nehekhara, The Scarab Brooch of Usirian. Settra is also a Level 1 Wizard who must use the Lore of Nehekhara and may be your army's Hierophant.
High Queen Khalida - Always Strikes First, Blessing of Asaph, The Curse, Flammable, Hatred(Vampire Counts, Incarnation of the Asp Goddess, and Poisoned Attacks. Has The Venom Staff and LA.
Arkhan the Black - The Curse and Flammable. Has The Tomb Blade of Arkhan, LA, The Liber Mortis, and the Staff of Nagash. May be mounted on a Skeleton Chariot, and the Chariot may be upgraded with 2 additional Skeleton Steeds, and/or to gain the Fly special rule. Arkhan is a Level 4 wizard who must use the Lore of Death and may be your army's Hierophant.
Grand Hierophant Khatep - Grand Hierophant of Khemri and Loremaster(Lore of Nehekhara). Has HW, The Liche Staff, and Scroll of the Cursing Word. Khatep is a level 4 wizard who must use the Lore of Nehekhara, and must be your army's Hierophant.
The Herald Nekaph - Flammable, Herald of Despair, Killing Blow, Sworn Bodyguard, and Settra's Champion. Has Flail of Skulls and LA. May be mounted on a Skeleton Chariot or Skeleton Steed.
Prince Apophas - Desert Revenant, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Fly, Regeneration, Scarab Prince, Soul Reaper, Strider, and Terror. Has HW and LA.
Ramhotep the Visionary - Flammable, Frantic Fervour, Master Artisan, Frenzy, Stone Shaper, Wrath of the Creator, and Hatred. Has HW, Whip, and LA.
So your telling me arkhan can fly acroos the board and unleash purple sun all the way across their battle line? Wow I feel like an ass already!
Light spell timewarp. Doubles movement. I see above that it says they cant march for any reason. Would it still be allowed? As it isnt marching it is just doubling their movement, which would allow them to re-double if they could march. This can be quite the combination for a death start type army.
The TK Skeleton box is not getting repacked as 10 models. It is shown on the GW site with new packaging and still has 16 models for $35. So for now it is just getting new box art to bring it into line with the other packaging.
So your telling me arkhan can fly acroos the board and unleash purple sun all the way across their battle line? Wow I feel like an ass already!
Light spell timewarp. Doubles movement. I see above that it says they cant march for any reason. Would it still be allowed? As it isnt marching it is just doubling their movement, which would allow them to re-double if they could march. This can be quite the combination for a death start type army.
That could be brutal. Double their movement and then hit them with the spell that allows them to move again. Chariots move 28" in a turn?!
So your telling me arkhan can fly acroos the board and unleash purple sun all the way across their battle line? Wow I feel like an ass already!
Light spell timewarp. Doubles movement. I see above that it says they cant march for any reason. Would it still be allowed? As it isnt marching it is just doubling their movement, which would allow them to re-double if they could march. This can be quite the combination for a death start type army.
That could be brutal. Double their movement and then hit them with the spell that allows them to move again. Chariots move 28" in a turn?!
Chariots would be able to move 16 and charge up to 28" if they rolled 12 on the charge.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Or speed of light cast on a bone giant as it charges.... (ouch WS 10 attacks at initiative 10 at S6 that get to keep attacking until they roll too low to hit you.
Ixquic wrote:
Wut? I'm not going to debate the quality of GW's recent models (even ones that people don't dig like the Dreadknight look good from a technical standpoint) but calling them low priced is absurd.
For instance these models will run you a little over $40 for the lot of ten. Compare that to this model being $12.95 for one and it looks terrible. The tiny bit of metal does not justify the much higher price.
Price alone isn't the issue. With 8th edition huge units are highly encouraged and the price for the models is really adding up. Combine that with older models being repackaged to have a higher price per model and new plastics being more expensive based on replacing equal value metal models (such as Phoenix Guard and Tomb Guard) and it's hard to see the game as "low priced." Saying you can just play 500 point games is silly since the game isn't popular at that level (people actively turn that down at stores when asked). It's like saying Warmachine can be enjoyed with just the starter boxes when no one plays that way.
You do have a point. Some of GWs models are very expensive. I also must congratulate you for finding one of the largest discrepancies you possible could have between the two product lines. Maybe you could compare the mantic cavalry to http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat570033a&prodId=prod1210012a this instead. You will find that these GW undead cavalry actually cost less per model than the mantic ones.
Maybe I worded my last post poorly. The better way to phrase what I want to say would be something like: GW models have the best value for their price when you consider their quality, versatility, and the sheer amount of stuff you get in a box; particularly when put into the context of building an army for playing WHFB.
Yes, there are discount sights. The models might look cheaper at first. In some cases they will be cheaper in the end as well. Take the orcs on mantic for example. $1.29 per model. Lets say you want them to be equipped with great weapons, or halberds, or extra hand weapons. Figure out how much it will cost for those bits, if you can even find them.
-Jim
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spaceelf wrote:
Fantasy is losing market share. This is even evident in GW stores, which is rather ironic.
How are you measuring this?
spaceelf wrote:
Other companies stuff is much cheaper than GW. The detail varies, but there is some really good stuff that is much cheaper than GW. Just check out Perry Brothers, or Brigade Games. 1.50 USD or less for a highly detailed plastic miniature is reasonable. Although GWs kits come with some options, they rarely come with all of the options you want in the game.
Ok... Yes those models are cheep, in both cases. I wont argue with that in any way shape or form. They are also, by in large, single piece cast. Some have a second piece. Highly detailed? That is generous. Some of these models are great, but others are not even in the same league as GW models, especially the plastic ones coming out recently. I'm sure the little green army men you see in the toy section at the pharmacy are cheaper than GW models as well. Are there any cheap fantasy war gaming models that are at least sort of comparable to GW's quality? So far I have seen mantic. Some of the mantic stuff is ok. If I was putting together truly giant units of infantry, i might consider them.
spaceelf wrote:
Small point Fantasy games do not work as well as small point 40k games. Having two blocks of troops and a general is just not that entertaining. If you avoid taking models with enough wounds, then you will get rolled in Fantasy, even in a casual setting. The skeleton horsemen and chariots do not seem particularly playable.
500 might be a little small, but I play at 1k all the time. It is a slightly different game down at that level, but still fun and playable. That point level, for me anyway, is perfect because I can get a game in during a long lunch break. As far as the viability of chariots and skeleton horsemen, I think we are destined to disagree.
Calling GW models cheep may be inappropriate. I will say, however, that when you consider their quality and suitability for playing WHFB they are by far the best value for your money.
Ixquic wrote:
You do have a point. Some of GWs models are very expensive. I also must congratulate you for finding one of the largest discrepancies you possible could have between the two product lines. Maybe you could compare the mantic cavalry to this instead. You will find that these GW undead cavalry actually cost less per model than the mantic ones.
Maybe I worded my last post poorly. The better way to phrase what I want to say would be something like: GW models have the best value for their price when you consider their quality, versatility, and the sheer amount of stuff you get in a box; particularly when put into the context of building an army for playing WHFB.
Yes, there are discount sights. The models might look cheaper at first. In some cases they will be cheaper in the end as well. Take the orcs on mantic for example. $1.29 per model. Lets say you want them to be equipped with great weapons, or halberds, or extra hand weapons. Figure out how much it will cost for those bits, if you can even find them.
-Jim
I pointed out an example since it was one I ran into when I wanted to put together some Black Knights and it ended up being cheaper to bitz order metal parts (before that went away) and add them to other plastic models. If you want to compare 8 models for $35 bucks versus 10 models for $45 that aren't really interchangeable (since one is a barded steed with knight and the other is a naked skeleton on a naked horse) that's cool but obviously disingenuous. I will admit the older GW plastic cavalry are still at a decent price for now (Brettonians and Empire included). Either way you found an example where GW MAYBE (depending on exchange rates) beats them out for 15 cents while in mine it was a almost 3 to 1 ratio. See if I wanted to I could compare the new Tomb Guard which is a little more than $4 a model to Mantic's elite undead unit which is about $1.30 a model. A more apt comparison would be between Grave Guard and The Revenants but even then Grave Guard is $3.3 a model.
I know some people here really love extra bits but you really don't get that much. With ghouls you end up with some extra arms and stuff you'll never use. In the case of the new Grey Knights you don't get enough psycannons to fill out units if you are looking to do certain types of armies and you are forced to either find people to trade with or buy extra boxes. With skeletons you get a lot of extra heads but from more than two feet away they all look the same. While I appreciate the extra stuff when it's there it certainly isn't worth the incredible price hike.
I'm not sure why you care if Mantic orcs can use weapon load outs the game doesn't allow you to take. If you are playing Kings of War it certainly doesn't matter and if you are using Mantic models for Warhammer Fantasy you are already bared from an official GW tournament anyway so who cares if they have exactly what they are supposed to.
Overall if you feel the hobby is worth it to you, great I have no business telling people how to spend their money or have fun. When Sisters of Battle come out I still want to buy that army. However to come in and act like it isn't extraordinarily expensive (or that GW stuff is so amazing it is worth the high cost) is flat out wrong.
I feel bad with this derail that has nothing to do with Tomb Kings anymore so I'm personally done here.
Ixquic wrote:
I pointed out an example since it was one I ran into when I wanted to put together some Black Knights and it ended up being cheaper to bitz order metal parts (before that went away) and add them to other plastic models. If you want to compare 8 models for $35 bucks versus 10 models for $45 that aren't really interchangeable (since one is a barded steed with knight and the other is a naked skeleton on a naked horse) that's cool but obviously disingenuous. I will admit the older GW plastic cavalry are still at a decent price for now (Brettonians and Empire included). Either way you found an example where GW MAYBE (depending on exchange rates) beats them out for 15 cents while in mine it was a almost 3 to 1 ratio. See if I wanted to I could compare the new Tomb Guard which is a little more than $4 a model to Mantic's elite undead unit which is about $1.30 a model. A more apt comparison would be between Grave Guard and The Revenants but even then Grave Guard is $3.3 a model.
I know some people here really love extra bits but you really don't get that much. With ghouls you end up with some extra arms and stuff you'll never use. In the case of the new Grey Knights you don't get enough psycannons to fill out units if you are looking to do certain types of armies and you are forced to either find people to trade with or buy extra boxes. With skeletons you get a lot of extra heads but from more than two feet away they all look the same. While I appreciate the extra stuff when it's there it certainly isn't worth the incredible price hike.
I'm not sure why you care if Mantic orcs can use weapon load outs the game doesn't allow you to take. If you are playing Kings of War it certainly doesn't matter and if you are using Mantic models for Warhammer Fantasy you are already bared from an official GW tournament anyway so who cares if they have exactly what they are supposed to.
Overall if you feel the hobby is worth it to you, great I have no business telling people how to spend their money or have fun. When Sisters of Battle come out I still want to buy that army. However to come in and act like it isn't extraordinarily expensive (or that GW stuff is so amazing it is worth the high cost) is flat out wrong.
I feel bad with this derail that has nothing to do with Tomb Kings anymore so I'm personally done here.
I'm sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way Ixquic. I promise I was not trying to be disingenuous. I suppose we just disagree about the quality and value of GW's product.
I do have to agree with you. This has nothing to do with the thread, so I'm done here as well.
BrassScorpion wrote:??? Tomb Kings packaging hasn't changed in years. But some of it at least likely will NOW similarly to how they quietly raised the price of the Orc Warriors as I detailed above.
It's changed for the new release:
It's still 16 skeletons, still $35. Stop freaking out.
BrassScorpion wrote:??? Tomb Kings packaging hasn't changed in years. But some of it at least likely will NOW similarly to how they quietly raised the price of the Orc Warriors as I detailed above.
It's changed for the new release:
It's still 16 skeletons, still $35. Stop freaking out.
I was hoping to see a re-sculpt of these guys. The weapons have too much of a European feel, especially the ball and chain.
I have seen the codex. Feel free to ask me questions.
A few things.
LHP is just over 200 points /w lvl 4 upgrade.
Liche Priests are just over 100 points /w lvl 2 upgrade.
Khalida sucks.
LHP special character looks really meh.
Prince Apophas has a terrible model imo.
Arkhan is level 5 thanks to a magic item, but if it is destroyed he loses a wizarding level. Must take Lore of the Dead.
Settra is a beast, but is pushing 500 points.
Settra's Herald gains a 5+ KB and a 5+ Ward Save in challenges.
3x Necropolis Knights are just under 200 points. Don't seem overpriced to me. About the same as 15 Tomb Guard.
ASFAIK the special character Necrotect's rule for constructs only allows the 5+ to be rerolled so Knights can't reroll their 3+ save.
Lots of people wrote:Man these snake surfing skellies look silly, I could totally come up with a better undead Egyptian beastie
Now, if I could just find five more cheap Bone Giants and antique LOC heads...
There is supposed to be a new bone giant model in the second or third wave. Maybe you can pick up some of the current ones on the cheep once the new ones come out.
saw the new codex. The cover looks a lot better in hard cover. The Units are awesome. I really love the King's personal herald guy. The book is gorgeous, the art is good and there are tooons of new units as well as all of the old ones.
Amaya wrote:I have seen the codex. Feel free to ask me questions.
I've read everything posted so far (I think) and haven't seen any reference to the way that TK handle magic. Sure, I've seen the new spells and items, but there was a lot of speculation before the book was produced that incantations would go (true) and they would be replaced by some sort of immunity to miscasts. Can you shed any light on this?
Amaya wrote:I have seen the codex. Feel free to ask me questions.
I've read everything posted so far (I think) and haven't seen any reference to the way that TK handle magic. Sure, I've seen the new spells and items, but there was a lot of speculation before the book was produced that incantations would go (true) and they would be replaced by some sort of immunity to miscasts. Can you shed any light on this?
Cheers.
Unless I completely missed something, Priests are just normal casters now. It looked to me like Hieratic Hierachy is gone. You're still required to have a Hierophant, which must be your highest level caster, and must take Lore of Nehekera.
@Tantras - I have played the game and seen most of the line for Wargods, it is fun not amazing as a game on it's own. The figs are fairly nice I would give them a B+, almost every fig I saw was done fairly well, kinda simple, wish there was more detail but they are a smaller line and it is to be expected, I would say they are better than Reaper's best and worse than GW's Best.
@LunaHound - I have bought up half the battalions in Chicago yesterday going store to store buying out what they had. The math is simply too strong:
35 dollars a box * 4 boxes in the battalion = 140, so even if you don't use 1 whole box you are still coming out in the good for 90 bucks, further it was fun to show the managers what was going on and talk to them.
I am shocked at GW's behavior on this release, I don't think they could mess this up more if they tried. There are still GW stores without the book and with the rampant rumors going on about how sooo much has changed those stores are simply not buying. There is talk of redoing all the core skeletons in a later wave with obvious done models, why would anyone go and buy a whole new core selection after starting the army or is the concept really to buy some sphinxs and tomb guard and wait? I normally side with GW as they have must have done something right to this point to be who they are, but whoever the project manager is on this, really needs to get fired. I have seen the book... awesome... I have read the army list... love it... I think this army will be one of GW's best when FULLY released (which isn't happening in May), but atm it is in a sad state. It is a shame.
any news on SC liche priest...khatep?
I know he is nehekharan loremaster but what items? Point cost?
And I heard that khalida in only around 200p.... But not sure
And IMHO chariots are worth it d6 impact hits and +1str for each rank... And for 15p more than old ones. And command is cheaper than before
the unforgiven wrote:any news on SC liche priest...khatep?
I know he is nehekharan loremaster but what items? Point cost?
Gosh darn it, I was at my store yesterday flipping through the book. I was interested in the new units and not the SC so I cant remember a lick of the new ones
Uktabi wrote:There are still GW stores without the book and with the rampant rumors going on about how sooo much has changed those stores are simply not buying.
They are not buying because shops can't order yet.
And many shops now have the book, mine since today.
sexiest_hero wrote:Haters gonna hate Kroohawk. The Tomb guard look better in person.
My distaste is not the quality of the models, just the stylistic change and price change (Or, more accurately, lack of one). I liked the old helmets and "so-so" ornamental level of the old Tomb Guard, and the lack of price reduction between a change from metals to plastic has no real excuse besides "Increasing costs because we figure they'll be a good unit / high sellers". On the plus side, if they sell as well as many people have been planning lists out for 'em in, they could probably make up for the next two army books' costs with just the TK alone - every person who buys just one unit of 30 is putting out $135 for a plastic unit that, individually, cannot cost that much more than a box or two of Clanrats to make.
Price and style get my ire, only models I really dislike for non-style reasons I pointed out a few pages back.
Someone asked a page ago about high quality plastic fantasy models, and I just thought I would mention AoW.
I very much like Crocodile Game's stuff, especially their mummies. Their spartans are also very cool.
The thing that gets me about GW's pricing is that they get you on both ends. They charge a fortune for 'elite' figures, saying that the price reflects the points cost and that it is an elite unit. However, their regular rank and file guys are not cheap either. Case in point, the price rise in the TK battalion. They have no reason to raise the price on those models. They were practically giving away the old skeletons when the Maryland Bunker closed.
Minsc wrote:On the plus side, if they sell as well as many people have been planning lists out for 'em in, they could probably make up for the next two army books' costs with just the TK alone - every person who buys just one unit of 30 is putting out $135 for a plastic unit that, individually, cannot cost that much more than a box or two of Clanrats to make.
That's not a plus side. That just encourages them to charge an equally high price for future kits.
the unforgiven wrote:any news on SC liche priest...khatep?
I know he is nehekharan loremaster but what items? Point cost?
And I heard that khalida in only around 200p.... But not sure
And IMHO chariots are worth it d6 impact hits and +1str for each rank... And for 15p more than old ones. And command is cheaper than before
-unforgiven-
Khatep sucks. He's nearly twice the cost of a HLP.
Khalida is well over 300 points and only confers her BS to skeleton archers. Ushbati and the Colossus are only BS2 so their shooting option are meh imo.
Casket looks like a must have in any competitive list and possibly the Hierotitan also.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kroothawk wrote:
Uktabi wrote:There are still GW stores without the book and with the rampant rumors going on about how sooo much has changed those stores are simply not buying.
They are not buying because shops can't order yet.
And many shops now have the book, mine since today.
And my LGS got it in yesterday.
A little more, Stalkers are just a tad more than Ironguts and Knights are 15 points more than Stalkers. Both Sphinxes are under 230 base. Both Giants are under 200 base.
Arkhan can be the general and hierophant and I believe Settra can as well. Arkhan can take a chariot, two extra steeds, and can make it fly, but I'm unsure if the extra steeds are required to make it flying. If not he clocks in at 440 with the flying chariot I believe.
I have to disagree on the outlook of the Apophas model. That thing is awesome. I can understand if you do not think that a mummy made out of scarabs is lame, but the look of that model is nothing short of epic.
Cheers
EDIT- Necropolis Knights are only 10pts more than the Sepulchral Stalkers.
I dislike a lot of the new things surrounding the book.. mostly that they still offer a lot of bound spell options but made you reliant on winds of magic again just like anyone else.. so vs Dwarfs or Empire or High Elves, you aren't casting much at all.
Yea, there's a few way to bring in some new dice, d3 at a time, but all in all I feel they should have kept incantations in.
Second is Buried Beneath the Earth... the new It Came From Below... you cant charge popping up anymore..
3rd is Kahlida.. 360ish points for what she does.. A nerf to her poison gifting, a nerf to her magic missile staff, and a nerf to her stats all around.. LAME.
The Heirotitan, Scarab Swarms, and basic skeletons are the big boosts to the book in my opinion.
Amaya: Sad that Khatep is so expensive becouse he would be only way to be 100% sure you get all nehekharan spells you want...oh well and I dont think casket is must have coz light of the dead is level5 bound spell now so you probably use (almost) all dice you get for that...and It doesnt stack....
heirotitan is good, I agree with that, atleast for magic heavy army
And some people say that chariot sucks but I disagree with that. Yes the are expensive, yes they have Low save (like all TK) but the make double the damage that used to AND command is cheaper.
worth it IMHO.
the unforgiven wrote:Amaya: Sad that Khatep is so expensive becouse he would be only way to be 100% sure you get all nehekharan spells you want...oh well and I dont think casket is must have coz light of the dead is level5 bound spell now so you probably use (almost) all dice you get for that...and It doesnt stack....
heirotitan is good, I agree with that, atleast for magic heavy army
And some people say that chariot sucks but I disagree with that. Yes the are expensive, yes they have Low save (like all TK) but the make double the damage that used to AND command is cheaper.
worth it IMHO.
-unforgiven-
You don't have to use the Casket's spell. I'm gonna toy with it this week and see how it does.
well...caskets point cost is between 100 and 150p so...expensive extra d3 PD....
Btw if someone knows point costs and characterics of new units please PM me, coz Im working to have all info of the new book, before I buy one.
There is even batrep coming then
Thanks in advance.
Once again i am disappointed in GW's direction for an army I used to enjoy. It seems like every time one of my armies gets an update, i sell off all my models for it. I'll be doing the same for my Tomb Kings. I just hope they don't redo my High Elves and Dwarfs or i'll stop playing Warhammer altogether. Between the rise in model cost and change in rules for units I enjoyed, plus the change in their unique magic phase (if i wanted that kind of magic i'd play my High Elves), I can't continue playing this army. Oh well, this is the cycle; army gets updated- the old players give it up and new players take it over.
I ordered the book and 2 sphinx for the second round of ard boyz. I figured I will atleast use them where as I might not use the other models that look kind of silly. I havent decided what type of list I will run yet as I have not got my hands on the new book yet.
I have been thinking of Ushabti conversions as they will be better at shooting then they will be in combat.
The 1st mission of ard boyz too is a miscast one where if you roll a 1 you roll the miscast table. Great so my best caster can die and my army begin to crumble. :(
Tomb King wrote:
The 1st mission of ard boyz too is a miscast one where if you roll a 1 you roll the miscast table. Great so my best caster can die and my army begin to crumble. :(
Tomb King wrote:
The 1st mission of ard boyz too is a miscast one where if you roll a 1 you roll the miscast table. Great so my best caster can die and my army begin to crumble. :(
Seems heavily in favour of Slann...
The big issue is teclis. Does he ignore the whole mission?
Teclis ignores one miscast per round. So if he rolls a 1 from the get go on when casting doubt the player will keep attempting to cast with hi,. I know I wont. It also means some HE players may elect to leave him at home, I know I wont be amongst those that do.
As for the TK Ive ordered the new codex, sphinx, and the new cav unit. Ive just started stocking up on my core for the army so I wont be running them in the next round.
Brotherjanus wrote:Once again i am disappointed in GW's direction for an army I used to enjoy. It seems like every time one of my armies gets an update, i sell off all my models for it. I'll be doing the same for my Tomb Kings. I just hope they don't redo my High Elves and Dwarfs or i'll stop playing Warhammer altogether. Between the rise in model cost and change in rules for units I enjoyed, plus the change in their unique magic phase (if i wanted that kind of magic i'd play my High Elves), I can't continue playing this army. Oh well, this is the cycle; army gets updated- the old players give it up and new players take it over.
How many games have you played with this unreleased army book?
I've been excited for a long time about starting Tomb Kings (and warhammer fantasy in general) when they got redone. (I've had an unopened casket of souls on my desk for over a year). This update is looking good. Now I just have to get a job and watch for a second wave.
I'm disappointed in the increased costs, but I like the way the new models' boxes are set up. The sphynx box will have a tomb king in it, and the stalker box comes with knights you can convert to pop out of the sand. I'm eager to try things out if I can afford it.
BrassScorpion wrote:??? Tomb Kings packaging hasn't changed in years. But some of it at least likely will NOW similarly to how they quietly raised the price of the Orc Warriors as I detailed above.
It's changed for the new release: It's still 16 skeletons, still $35. Stop freaking out.
I have all the Skeletons I need for MY army, I was trying to do other people a favor by alerting them to a possible price increase. That is hardly freaking out. Stop freaking out that you could be wrong, again. This is the first artwork or packaging change for Tomb Kings since 2003, there was no change last year as you stated.
Speaking of which, I heard from another GW retail manager today that he was told the Skeleton troop boxes would be split and the price per model would be higher. In this case he was specific, $24.75 for less models per dollar. If you're trying to build an army with massive amounts of 4-point per model Skeletons, that price increase is really going to add up. When the Orcs were revised a couple months ago GW still sold off the 19-models for $35 US on their website till they were all gone, then the newly increased price boxes replaced them. Just because the old 16-skeleton models for $35 pricing is still being sold on the website now doesn't mean there may not be a price increase nearby on the horizon. If the info I was given is wrong and I am therefore wrong in reporting this, I would be fine with that in this case. I don't like price increases any more than the next customer, so being incorrect wouldn't be a bad thing here. But for those planning to buy a lot more skeleton models anyway, there's no harm in doing it now just in case. If the price doesn't change soon there's no harm done and if it does then those people beat the increase by buying now. Now please go argue pointlessly with someone else because I'm done with this thread. There's certainly nothing useful in it for me and trying to be a little altruistic on this forum can be exasperating at times.
Was able to take a very quick peek at the new book on Saturday. I didn't get too far into it, but I'm not happy with a lot of what I'm seeing. What we had before was a more or less thematically serious army that relied on completely safe (i.e. no miscasts) magic to attempt to provide a little extra movement or an extra attack to the various units. The magic was much more reliable than what everyone else had, but the magic was considerably less powerful than what everyone else got.
That's now all gone.
Instead we have silliness from the modeling department (surfers on snakes!), a "mainstreamed" magic system, and the loss of imo our best banner (the one that allowed a free reform before charges were declared...). Admittedly, the last one is more whining on my part than anything else. But after noting that the banner was gone, my friend happened to note that one of the banners that we kept - the one that allows you to bury a unit beneath the ground - was an extremely bad deal because at 90 points the only person who can carry it is your standard bearer.
Even in the new edition, that banner is apparently still a really bad deal...
Unfortunately I didn't have the time to sit down and take a good long look at the book, so I'm only aware of a handful of the changes.
Six months ago I would have thought that the release of Tomb Kings in 8th edition would get me interested enough to start playing again.
Having seen the new models and taken a glance at the new book, I now know better.
BrassScorpion wrote:??? Tomb Kings packaging hasn't changed in years. But some of it at least likely will NOW similarly to how they quietly raised the price of the Orc Warriors as I detailed above.
It's changed for the new release: It's still 16 skeletons, still $35. Stop freaking out.
I have all the Skeletons I need for MY army, I was trying to do other people a favor by alerting them to a possible price increase. That is hardly freaking out. Stop freaking out that you could be wrong, again. This is the first artwork or packaging change for Tomb Kings since 2003, there was no change last year as you stated.
Speaking of which, I heard from another GW retail manager today that he was told the Skeleton troop boxes would be split and the price per model would be higher. In this case he was specific, $24.75 for less models per dollar. If you're trying to build an army with massive amounts of 4-point per model Skeletons, that price increase is really going to add up. When the Orcs were revised a couple months ago GW still sold off the 19-models for $35 US on their website till they were all gone, then the newly increased price boxes replaced them. Just because the old 16-skeleton models for $35 pricing is still being sold on the website now doesn't mean there may not be a price increase nearby on the horizon. If the info I was given is wrong and I am therefore wrong in reporting this, I would be fine with that in this case. I don't like price increases any more than the next customer, so being incorrect wouldn't be a bad thing here. But for those planning to buy a lot more skeleton models anyway, there's no harm in doing it now just in case. If the price doesn't change soon there's no harm done and if it does then those people beat the increase by buying now. Now please go argue pointlessly with someone else because I'm done with this thread. There's certainly nothing useful in it for me and trying to be a little altruistic on this forum can be exasperating at times.
I also heard similar news about the repacking of skellies from a manager. However, I am not inclined to believe him given the picture from MasterSlowPoke. I think they just raised the price on the old battalion because it was too good a deal. You used to get four full boxes worth of stuff for the price of two boxes plus 20 USD, a savings of 50 USD. Now you will save about 35 USD.
Although I am happy that skellies droped in points value, GW needs to rethink its pricing. At their new pricing a generic 2k list will set you back by 500 bucks. Are they marketing this game to kids or are they just bleeding us old folks dry?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I can appreciate Eumerin's comments.
I personally feel that the book was rushed, which is strange because there were rumours that it would be released a year ago. An example of the rushed job is the rule that prevents constructs from regaining more than 1 wound per turn from magic. The limit was clearly written with the Sphynx in mind, but it really screws over units like Spectral Knights and Ushabti. Given that they cannot regain many wounds, the monstrous infantry in the book should have been cheaper. Other rushed bits include the banner of the hidden dead which states that you can use it with units of chariots, but its points restrictions prevent you from using it with chariots.
I am sad that about the internal balance of the book. There are still many units that nobody will field. A case in point are swarms. Not only are they bad, but they are moved to special and still have a unit size cap. Total fail. I feel that GW is just making the army books out of the same template. Snotlings are now special, thus Swarms must be as well. Orcs got the Aracnaroc, so TK need a giant creature as well.
BrassScorpion wrote:??? Tomb Kings packaging hasn't changed in years. But some of it at least likely will NOW similarly to how they quietly raised the price of the Orc Warriors as I detailed above.
It's changed for the new release: It's still 16 skeletons, still $35. Stop freaking out.
I have all the Skeletons I need for MY army, I was trying to do other people a favor by alerting them to a possible price increase. That is hardly freaking out. Stop freaking out that you could be wrong, again. This is the first artwork or packaging change for Tomb Kings since 2003, there was no change last year as you stated.
Speaking of which, I heard from another GW retail manager today that he was told the Skeleton troop boxes would be split and the price per model would be higher. In this case he was specific, $24.75 for less models per dollar. If you're trying to build an army with massive amounts of 4-point per model Skeletons, that price increase is really going to add up. When the Orcs were revised a couple months ago GW still sold off the 19-models for $35 US on their website till they were all gone, then the newly increased price boxes replaced them. Just because the old 16-skeleton models for $35 pricing is still being sold on the website now doesn't mean there may not be a price increase nearby on the horizon. If the info I was given is wrong and I am therefore wrong in reporting this, I would be fine with that in this case. I don't like price increases any more than the next customer, so being incorrect wouldn't be a bad thing here. But for those planning to buy a lot more skeleton models anyway, there's no harm in doing it now just in case. If the price doesn't change soon there's no harm done and if it does then those people beat the increase by buying now. Now please go argue pointlessly with someone else because I'm done with this thread. There's certainly nothing useful in it for me and trying to be a little altruistic on this forum can be exasperating at times.
I also heard similar news about the repacking of skellies from a manager. However, I am not inclined to believe him given the picture from MasterSlowPoke. I think they just raised the price on the old battalion because it was too good a deal. You used to get four full boxes worth of stuff for the price of two boxes plus 20 USD, a savings of 50 USD. Now you will save about 35 USD.
Although I am happy that skellies droped in points value, GW needs to rethink its pricing. At their new pricing a generic 2k list will set you back by 500 bucks. Are they marketing this game to kids or are they just bleeding us old folks dry?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I can appreciate Eumerin's comments.
I personally feel that the book was rushed, which is strange because there were rumours that it would be released a year ago. An example of the rushed job is the rule that prevents constructs from regaining more than 1 wound per turn from magic. The limit was clearly written with the Sphynx in mind, but it really screws over units like Spectral Knights and Ushabti. Given that they cannot regain many wounds, the monstrous infantry in the book should have been cheaper. Other rushed bits include the banner of the hidden dead which states that you can use it with units of chariots, but its points restrictions prevent you from using it with chariots.
I am sad that about the internal balance of the book. There are still many units that nobody will field. A case in point are swarms. Not only are they bad, but they are moved to special and still have a unit size cap. Total fail. I feel that GW is just making the army books out of the same template. Snotlings are now special, thus Swarms must be as well. Orcs got the Aracnaroc, so TK need a giant creature as well.
A large part of me wants to have everyone go on strike and just refuse to buy the tomb kings until they put some better thought into it. It isnt even out yet and it will already need more then a few errata's. With the current GW price increase a decent army will now triple the cost of the 40k counterpart. Not too mention having to paint all of those models to play in tournaments... sigh, I am okay with one of the two not both. The magic which we depend upon is gone and if we play a magic defense army we are screwed and just have to wing it. Constructs only getting 1 wound back is dumb. Especially in a unit of 6 ushabti. The 55 dollar snake cav will never be fielded by me because I am not paying 200 dollars for one dam unit!
A large part of me wants to have everyone go on strike and just refuse to buy the tomb kings until they put some better thought into it. It isnt even out yet and it will already need more then a few errata's. With the current GW price increase a decent army will now triple the cost of the 40k counterpart. Not too mention having to paint all of those models to play in tournaments... sigh, I am okay with one of the two not both. The magic which we depend upon is gone and if we play a magic defense army we are screwed and just have to wing it. Constructs only getting 1 wound back is dumb. Especially in a unit of 6 ushabti. The 55 dollar snake cav will never be fielded by me because I am not paying 200 dollars for one dam unit!
Glad to see I am not the only one disappointed in the new Tomb Kings. There's so much in the new book I don't like it's sad. And to the ones mocking me, grow up. I am entitled to my opinion and can be unhappy about my old favorite army without having played a game with it under the new book. I have played several 8th edition games with my old book and have not enjoyed it, and after reading the new one, I will not enjoy that as well. The book doesn't have to be released for sale for people to have read it.
You guys are forgetting one important point about the dry undead painting them is one of the easy parts. Line them up paint them white paint the metal and add any color in the places you want color then dip or wash them.
sonofruss wrote:You guys are forgetting one important point about the dry undead painting them is one of the easy parts. Line them up paint them white paint the metal and add any color in the places you want color then dip or wash them.
My tombking done that way end up looking like over fried tempura , im ashamed T-T
sonofruss wrote:You guys are forgetting one important point about the dry undead painting them is one of the easy parts. Line them up paint them white paint the metal and add any color in the places you want color then dip or wash them.
My tombking done that way end up looking like over fried tempura , im ashamed T-T
The wash sucks. Use the dark shade though and they look amazing! Then just touch them up with anti shine.
All of that adds up when you have to do 200 models though. Add that those 200 models are only 800 points of your army and they cost over 400 some odd dollars.
sonofruss wrote:You guys are forgetting one important point about the dry undead painting them is one of the easy parts. Line them up paint them white paint the metal and add any color in the places you want color then dip or wash them.
My tombking done that way end up looking like over fried tempura , im ashamed T-T
sonofruss wrote:You guys are forgetting one important point about the dry undead painting them is one of the easy parts. Line them up paint them white paint the metal and add any color in the places you want color then dip or wash them.
My tombking done that way end up looking like over fried tempura , im ashamed T-T
The wash sucks. Use the dark shade though and they look amazing! Then just touch them up with anti shine.
All of that adds up when you have to do 200 models though. Add that those 200 models are only 800 points of your army and they cost over 400 some odd dollars.
Im having tons of trouble finding the correct shade , let me go dig up what i have....
So far i tried the following:
GW brown wash : looked like tempura
Minwax Wood Stain ( English Oak ) : looks like melted caramel
Minwax Wood Finish ( Jacobean ) : Well looks like.... some sort of super thick badablack
Can anyone recommend a proper stain so we can mass produce skeletons :x
sonofruss wrote:You guys are forgetting one important point about the dry undead painting them is one of the easy parts. Line them up paint them white paint the metal and add any color in the places you want color then dip or wash them.
My tombking done that way end up looking like over fried tempura , im ashamed T-T
The wash sucks. Use the dark shade though and they look amazing! Then just touch them up with anti shine.
All of that adds up when you have to do 200 models though. Add that those 200 models are only 800 points of your army and they cost over 400 some odd dollars.
Im having tons of trouble finding the correct shade , let me go dig up what i have....
So far i tried the following:
GW brown wash : looked like tempura
Minwax Wood Stain ( English Oak ) : looks like melted caramel
Minwax Wood Finish ( Jacobean ) : Well looks like.... some sort of super thick badablack
Can anyone recommend a proper stain so we can mass produce skeletons :x
Alright.
I based them in skull white.
I bought the army painter Quick shade. The dark shade one.
I painted on all my metallic colors and other accesories. I dipped the model in the shade and then shook the model and blew on it some to get any excess out of some area's.
It should take 12-24 hours to dry. You might use anti-shine as the model will have a little of a shine to it.
You can do a whole army like this and have it look great and very tournament worthy.
With +1 Attack and a 5+ KB they would be really nasty. If you could get them WS10 and I10 also they would be obscene.
I think somewhere in this monstrous thread somebody said they were ~200pts for 3 of them - no idea of options. I guess the main difference between them and Chaos Knights is how robust they are. The Necropolis Knights' 3+ save will soon be a problem when hails of crap from every direction are poured upon them. I guess Chaos Knights have a ton more options, too. Banners, Chaos marks, etc.
With +1 Attack and a 5+ KB they would be really nasty. If you could get them WS10 and I10 also they would be obscene.
I think the Necro Knights are the same cost as the old Ushabti. Large units of necro knights will be too expensive and difficult to maneuver. Small units will be targeted and cut down just like Chaos Knights.
A large part of me wants to have everyone go on strike and just refuse to buy the tomb kings until they put some better thought into it. It isnt even out yet and it will already need more then a few errata's. With the current GW price increase a decent army will now triple the cost of the 40k counterpart. Not too mention having to paint all of those models to play in tournaments... sigh, I am okay with one of the two not both. The magic which we depend upon is gone and if we play a magic defense army we are screwed and just have to wing it. Constructs only getting 1 wound back is dumb. Especially in a unit of 6 ushabti. The 55 dollar snake cav will never be fielded by me because I am not paying 200 dollars for one dam unit!
Glad to see I am not the only one disappointed in the new Tomb Kings. There's so much in the new book I don't like it's sad. And to the ones mocking me, grow up. I am entitled to my opinion and can be unhappy about my old favorite army without having played a game with it under the new book. I have played several 8th edition games with my old book and have not enjoyed it, and after reading the new one, I will not enjoy that as well. The book doesn't have to be released for sale for people to have read it.
Welcome to Dakka/Fark/The Internet.
It's no country for thin skins and weak men.
On topic: What do you have for TK and what do you want for it? (PM is fine.)
Teclis ignores one miscast per round. So if he rolls a 1 from the get go on when casting doubt the player will keep attempting to cast with hi,. I know I wont. It also means some HE players may elect to leave him at home, I know I wont be amongst those that do.
Every time a wizard casts a spell or uses a
bound item, roll a D6. On a 1 the model must roll on the
miscast table and apply the affects. This may cause the
wizard to roll twice on the miscast table if he actually
miscasts while casting the spell.
Not to get into a big debate on it, but Teclis won't be able to ignore this one, as it states he "must" roll on the miscast table. If he rolled double 6s, then he wouldn't have to roll twice, but unless someone can find in there where it says the caster suffers a miscast in the mission, I'd have to disagree.
Tomb Kings wise though - yeah it can be a killer. Same way as with VC though.
With +1 Attack and a 5+ KB they would be really nasty. If you could get them WS10 and I10 also they would be obscene.
I think somewhere in this monstrous thread somebody said they were ~200pts for 3 of them - no idea of options. I guess the main difference between them and Chaos Knights is how robust they are. The Necropolis Knights' 3+ save will soon be a problem when hails of crap from every direction are poured upon them. I guess Chaos Knights have a ton more options, too. Banners, Chaos marks, etc.
3 Necropolis Knights = 195 with no upgrades
5 Chaos Knights = 200 with no upgrades
The latest GW email about the "elites week" on their site had an interesting still from the revent vid that a few sharp eyed people noted.. and then Mr. GodlessM popped up with another picture over on Warseer
reds8n wrote: The latest GW email about the "elites week" on their site had an interesting still from the revent vid that a few sharp eyed people noted.. and then Mr. GodlessM popped up with another picture over on Warseer
The army book has all the first wave miniatures in it. So many have seen those pics, the rest will see them tomorrow on "Advance Orders" I guess.
spaceelf wrote:
I think the Necro Knights are the same cost as the old Ushabti. Large units of necro knights will be too expensive and difficult to maneuver. Small units will be targeted and cut down just like Chaos Knights.
Yea, not convinced yet to utilize cavalry too much. 8th still has a huge dislike for them
spaceelf wrote:
I think the Necro Knights are the same cost as the old Ushabti. Large units of necro knights will be too expensive and difficult to maneuver. Small units will be targeted and cut down just like Chaos Knights.
Yea, not convinced yet to utilize cavalry too much. 8th still has a huge dislike for them
Yes but those Necro Knights are Monstrous cav Much better then normal cav.
The only thing I don't like about the snake models after seeing them in person is the decision to put them on that chariot base with the superthin tail trailing out behind them - it would have been a better use of space to have the same size model coiled up on an Ogre-sized base. I understand it's a snake, but the thing takes up like 8% of the base, and costs quite a bit per model.
They're fodder for the usual bricks of cheap infantry anyway, so it's not like you'll be seeing that much of them.
MikeMcSomething wrote:The only thing I don't like about the snake models after seeing them in person is the decision to put them on that chariot base with the superthin tail trailing out behind them - it would have been a better use of space to have the same size model coiled up on an Ogre-sized base. I understand it's a snake, but the thing takes up like 8% of the base, and costs quite a bit per model.
They're fodder for the usual bricks of cheap infantry anyway, so it's not like you'll be seeing that much of them.
But then we'll have people complaining they want uncoiled snakes
Still yea, wish they were the same size as bloodcrushers/ogres.
MikeMcSomething wrote:The only thing I don't like about the snake models after seeing them in person is the decision to put them on that chariot base with the superthin tail trailing out behind them - it would have been a better use of space to have the same size model coiled up on an Ogre-sized base. I understand it's a snake, but the thing takes up like 8% of the base, and costs quite a bit per model.
They're fodder for the usual bricks of cheap infantry anyway, so it's not like you'll be seeing that much of them.
I dont know about all that. They may find use going after armies more elite troop choices. High Elves are always a major concern but I think they would fair well against many other armies.
