Right, but at the point in time my army is modelled, most of the PDF don't know they're either Renegades or Heretics.
Kronstaat IV has (spoiler alert) seceded from the Imperium in a popular revolt, by the people for the people. They don't yet know they've been sold out by a monster who is neither Stalin nor a huge Mary-Sue. They are unaware they are Vlasovtsy.
I have nothing to do all day today but babysit though, so I could probably take a stab at a spikey one too.
Excommunicatus wrote: Right, but at the point in time my army is modelled, most of the PDF don't know they're either Renegades or Heretics.
Kronstaat IV has (spoiler alert) seceded from the Imperium in a popular revolt, by the people for the people. They don't yet know they've been sold out by a monster who is neither Stalin nor a huge Mary-Sue. They are unaware they are Vlasovtsy.
I have nothing to do all day today but babysit though, so I could probably take a stab at a spikey one too.
Friday, innit?
Spikes for the spike throne.
Do we have considered traitor knights soup allready?
Excommunicatus wrote: Right, but at the point in time my army is modelled, most of the PDF don't know they're either Renegades or Heretics.
Kronstaat IV has (spoiler alert) seceded from the Imperium in a popular revolt, by the people for the people. They don't yet know they've been sold out by a monster who is neither Stalin nor a huge Mary-Sue. They are unaware they are Vlasovtsy.
I have nothing to do all day today but babysit though, so I could probably take a stab at a spikey one too.
Friday, innit?
Spikes for the spike throne.
Do we have considered traitor knights soup allready?
I don't think it's been discussed yet but a definite must now, just like with the loyalist dogs, I see the disloyal32 and/or traitorous20 + knights being really strong. Sadly I don't know enough about knights to know which to take or how to run them.
If anyone experienced with chaos knights have some ideas I'm all ears.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Even better would be a disloyal brigade since the only thing we can do well is a cheap brigade.
Renegade enforcers backing renegade cultist blobs could make for good meat shields for knights, especially with that 5+ invul chaos knights can now dole out...
WinterLantern wrote: Renegade enforcers backing renegade cultist blobs could make for good meat shields for knights, especially with that 5+ invul chaos knights can now dole out...
Wouldn't you then go all in, and use the 30 cultist blob or 50 Mutant blob for that?
Not Online!!! wrote: Wouldn't you then go all in, and use the 30 cultist blob or 50 Mutant blob for that?
Cultist blobs of 30 i'd recomend for cheap screening that takes a decent amount of shooting to clear with the enforcers beating their buddies to death. Maybe throw in a couple of flamers too to deter charges, or if ya going shooty heavy stubbers and autoguns to murder other chaff
Not Online!!! wrote: Wouldn't you then go all in, and use the 30 cultist blob or 50 Mutant blob for that?
Cultist blobs of 30 i'd recomend for cheap screening that takes a decent amount of shooting to clear with the enforcers beating their buddies to death. Maybe throw in a couple of flamers too to deter charges, or if ya going shooty heavy stubbers and autoguns to murder other chaff
I'd go with the muties.
More flesh for just 50 pts more.
Chance for T4 and other goodies.
Not Online!!! wrote: I'd go with the muties.
More flesh for just 50 pts more.
Chance for T4 and other goodies.
I dunno, BS and WS 4+ really buffs their output so that they're little less ...useless? Though I've never tried mutants before, cos I don't have enough models or shotguns
Not Online!!! wrote: I'd go with the muties.
More flesh for just 50 pts more.
Chance for T4 and other goodies.
I dunno, BS and WS 4+ really buffs their output so that they're little less ...useless? Though I've never tried mutants before, cos I don't have enough models or shotguns
First off, renegade cultists are overpriced cultists, without stratagems to make them worth it.
I'd rather pay less then for the purpose of just beeing meatshield.
Als autoguns and Lasguns are available for muties aswell.
Not Online!!! wrote: I belive we do the Battalion better then the brigade.
I'd still also go for the mortar over the stubber.
And for the autoguns on the mutants.
But yeah maybee with a bunch of knights might work.
I'd also go for command squads instead of the enforcer.
This was just an example of how cheap we can make a brigade which is alot more cp than a battalion and only takes 1 detachment slot so you can have 2 knight detachments or a deamon and knight detachment with it.
I agree mortars are better if you want them to be more than tax for an extra 27 points.
I agree the autoguns are better and easier to make.
Command sqauds or even better marauders are probably better than enforcers but they can be targeted. Enforcers are not great for msu and made for large mobs. But it costs the same points. But again just an example.
But a cp battery and screen with knights I see doing well.
Not Online!!! wrote: I belive we do the Battalion better then the brigade.
I'd still also go for the mortar over the stubber.
And for the autoguns on the mutants.
But yeah maybee with a bunch of knights might work.
I'd also go for command squads instead of the enforcer.
This was just an example of how cheap we can make a brigade which is alot more cp than a battalion and only takes 1 detachment slot so you can have 2 knight detachments or a deamon and knight detachment with it.
I agree mortars are better if you want them to be more than tax for an extra 27 points.
I agree the autoguns are better and easier to make.
Command sqauds or even better marauders are probably better than enforcers but they can be targeted. Enforcers are not great for msu and made for large mobs. But it costs the same points. But again just an example.
But a cp battery and screen with knights I see doing well.
Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?
Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?
Enforcers are more if you want the meat shield to stick around. I'd shell out for extra bodies, which would make the enforcers a stronger investment. Command squads with that banner that lets you attack post death can be surprisingly useful however in slowing down/punishing assault units that have glass jaws.
Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?
Enforcers are more if you want the meat shield to stick around. I'd shell out for extra bodies, which would make the enforcers a stronger investment. Command squads with that banner that lets you attack post death can be surprisingly useful however in slowing down/punishing assault units that have glass jaws.
It is, it's also usefull if you are the one assaulting as khornate bunch, which I do regularly.
Surprisingly effective, even against heavy infantry.
Not Online!!! wrote: I belive we do the Battalion better then the brigade.
I'd still also go for the mortar over the stubber.
And for the autoguns on the mutants.
But yeah maybee with a bunch of knights might work.
I'd also go for command squads instead of the enforcer.
This was just an example of how cheap we can make a brigade which is alot more cp than a battalion and only takes 1 detachment slot so you can have 2 knight detachments or a deamon and knight detachment with it.
I agree mortars are better if you want them to be more than tax for an extra 27 points.
I agree the autoguns are better and easier to make.
Command sqauds or even better marauders are probably better than enforcers but they can be targeted. Enforcers are not great for msu and made for large mobs. But it costs the same points. But again just an example.
But a cp battery and screen with knights I see doing well.
Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?
Oh yeah I forgot they are only 4 man lol. Good point to save 18 more points for deamon/knights.
Not Online!!! wrote: I belive we do the Battalion better then the brigade.
I'd still also go for the mortar over the stubber.
And for the autoguns on the mutants.
But yeah maybee with a bunch of knights might work.
I'd also go for command squads instead of the enforcer.
This was just an example of how cheap we can make a brigade which is alot more cp than a battalion and only takes 1 detachment slot so you can have 2 knight detachments or a deamon and knight detachment with it.
I agree mortars are better if you want them to be more than tax for an extra 27 points.
I agree the autoguns are better and easier to make.
Command sqauds or even better marauders are probably better than enforcers but they can be targeted. Enforcers are not great for msu and made for large mobs. But it costs the same points. But again just an example.
But a cp battery and screen with knights I see doing well.
Command squad is 24, the enforcer is 30.
In the spirit of going as cheap as possible it makes sense to go for the bunch of upjumped disciples no?
Oh yeah I forgot they are only 4 man lol. Good point to save 18 more points for deamon/knights.
Just say it with me, units actually worth fielding.
Altough that 5++ blob of infantry with enforcer support does look enticing.
I mean that's what makes renegades a fun army for me to bust out on occasion, as hordes of basically fearless trash mean loads die and you get to throw a bunch of dice.
That banner trick however is hilarious against bloodletter bombs as a trash screen half the cost inflict surprisingly harsh casualties.
If you decide to be a madman and take a renegade warlord, a Tzeentch covenant screen being buffed with the 5+invul, banner and enforcers could make a decent screen/ kinda counterpunchy mook horde for your knight.
WinterLantern wrote: I mean that's what makes renegades a fun army for me to bust out on occasion, as hordes of basically fearless trash mean loads die and you get to throw a bunch of dice.
That banner trick however is hilarious against bloodletter bombs as a trash screen half the cost inflict surprisingly harsh casualties.
If you decide to be a madman and take a renegade warlord, a Tzeentch covenant screen being buffed with the 5+invul, banner and enforcers could make a decent screen/ kinda counterpunchy mook horde for your knight.
That is true. But after my 70 ish matches i kinda maybee got a bit too jaded torwards "balance".
I do think though that this also would be Handy for militia squads.
I'm usually pretty happy if my guys get to shoot three times; twice regular and one Overwatch. Their chance to hit is 1 in 3, so statistically they should all hit at least once.
Excommunicatus wrote: I'm usually pretty happy if my guys get to shoot three times; twice regular and one Overwatch. Their chance to hit is 1 in 3, so statistically they should all hit at least once.
With their flashlights.
Or the occasional stubber. or mortar. or Autogun, or shotgun, or pocket flashlight, or bbgun.
i have a feeling we need to sort out our equipment issues
It's why I prefer cultists- big whoop for guardsmen level accuracy. Militia should either be dropped to 3ppm, gain a guardsmen statline or be like a sidegrade to the guard, rather than flat out inferior. Genestealer cult managed it really well.
So renegades can make a good/kinda competant chaff screen for knights with enforcers keeping blobs in place. Maybe knights and Tzeentch renegades could combo well, especially if we abuse the cheap renegade characters as summon fodder, or just flat out take an additional 1ksons or tzeentch daemon allies?
WinterLantern wrote: It's why I prefer cultists- big whoop for guardsmen level accuracy. Militia should either be dropped to 3ppm, gain a guardsmen statline or be like a sidegrade to the guard, rather than flat out inferior. Genestealer cult managed it really well.
So renegades can make a good/kinda competant chaff screen for knights with enforcers keeping blobs in place. Maybe knights and Tzeentch renegades could combo well, especially if we abuse the cheap renegade characters as summon fodder, or just flat out take an additional 1ksons or tzeentch daemon allies?
There is no point in cultists though, you get zero ability like csm cultists, you pay 20% more for 16% combat ability.
Lose access to mortars, voxes and special weapons ( granted only the nade launchers worth it but still)
Even mutants are better, due to maximum blob and maximum value out of the enforcer.
As for knights + tzeentch renegades.
You lose a warlord trait though for tzeentch trait.
Which is an issue / can be an issue.
Allies i'd still tend torwards knights, thousands have access to tzangoors.
WinterLantern -- If the goal from R+H detachment is a meatshield and CP for Knights, and especially if you're using Renegade Enforcers to manage leadership, wouldn't it be a lot more valuable to name one of your Knights as your Warlord?
Excommunicatus wrote: I'm struggling to see why you want to take R&H Cultists, honestly. CSM Cultists cost the same and are better in almost every regard.
Umm... don't they cost the same, and are in fact the same in almost every regard?
Actually... the renegades cultists -can- have a leadership of 8, which makes them a lot better than CSM cultists.
There's not a lot of point to csm cultists anymore. Other than troop tax, of course.
Excommunicatus wrote: I'm struggling to see why you want to take R&H Cultists, honestly. CSM Cultists cost the same and are better in almost every regard.
Umm... don't they cost the same, and are in fact the same in almost every regard?
Actually... the renegades cultists -can- have a leadership of 8, which makes them a lot better than CSM cultists.
There's not a lot of point to csm cultists anymore. Other than troop tax, of course.
And recycling, and stratagems, and morale immunity, and rerolls, etc.
Sure RC marines did give another way for CP, but overall i'd still pick cultists.
Also ld 8, K, they also can have ld 3 and have no saving Grace. And on average 5,5
Excommunicatus wrote: I'm struggling to see why you want to take R&H Cultists, honestly. CSM Cultists cost the same and are better in almost every regard.
Umm... don't they cost the same, and are in fact the same in almost every regard?
Actually... the renegades cultists -can- have a leadership of 8, which makes them a lot better than CSM cultists.
There's not a lot of point to csm cultists anymore. Other than troop tax, of course.
And recycling, and stratagems, and morale immunity, and rerolls, etc.
Sure RC marines did give another way for CP, but overall i'd still pick cultists.
Also ld 8, K, they also can have ld 3 and have no saving Grace. And on average 5,5
I mean, recycling and morale immunity both come under 'stratagems', and I didn't really consider them because spending any CP on a unit of 10 cultists seems like a waste. They do get rerolls if they're near a lord, that's true, but ... I mean, how often do you keep a lord standing around near some cultists? My lords usually have better things to do.
The equation obviously changes if you're actually making a cultist army... hordes of 30-man units, with abaddon in the centre, that kind of thing. But thats a very different question to taking R&H cultists for detachment fulfilment.
But personally, I think they're all a bit rubbish. Better than CSM, perhaps, but that's not a hard feat. Nurglings are better than CSM.
Excommunicatus wrote: I'm struggling to see why you want to take R&H Cultists, honestly. CSM Cultists cost the same and are better in almost every regard.
Umm... don't they cost the same, and are in fact the same in almost every regard?
Actually... the renegades cultists -can- have a leadership of 8, which makes them a lot better than CSM cultists.
There's not a lot of point to csm cultists anymore. Other than troop tax, of course.
And recycling, and stratagems, and morale immunity, and rerolls, etc.
Sure RC marines did give another way for CP, but overall i'd still pick cultists.
Also ld 8, K, they also can have ld 3 and have no saving Grace. And on average 5,5
I mean, recycling and morale immunity both come under 'stratagems', and I didn't really consider them because spending any CP on a unit of 10 cultists seems like a waste. They do get rerolls if they're near a lord, that's true, but ... I mean, how often do you keep a lord standing around near some cultists? My lords usually have better things to do.
The equation obviously changes if you're actually making a cultist army... hordes of 30-man units, with abaddon in the centre, that kind of thing. But thats a very different question to taking R&H cultists for detachment fulfilment.
But personally, I think they're all a bit rubbish. Better than CSM, perhaps, but that's not a hard feat. Nurglings are better than CSM.
No that's the thing.
R&H Cultists don't interact with the army that fields them beyond the coven. Csm cultists do, that makes them infinitely better then r&h ones.
They get no vox, no stratagem, no nothing.
They shouldn't even be there in the first place if you look at the history of the list.
Also. It makes no sense really for R&H to even form a cp generating detachment in the first place out of soup.
I can still justify militia though, or mutants even, but not cultists. In a pure list that is.
Meh, enforcers prevent all ya trash infantry from running, which is kind of a step up from csm fodder considering I don't particularly like Black Legion. I feel with enforcers, the difference between cultists and militia is too minute to be up to anything more than personal preference, and the bs 5+ kills my soul
If Csm do go down to 12 points, I believe, especially with red corsairs, that they'd be a better troop choice to cultists, especially with bolter drill/shock assault. Cultists for csm are only good for black legion now I feel, and i'd rather just bring daemons in that case.
Renegades provide probably the best trashy screen without having to invest in Abbadon
WinterLantern wrote: Meh, enforcers prevent all ya trash infantry from running, which is kind of a step up from csm fodder considering I don't particularly like Black Legion. I feel with enforcers, the difference between cultists and militia is too minute to be up to anything more than personal preference, and the bs 5+ kills my soul
If Csm do go down to 12 points, I believe, especially with red corsairs, that they'd be a better troop choice to cultists, especially with bolter drill/shock assault. Cultists for csm are only good for black legion now I feel, and i'd rather just bring daemons in that case.
Renegades provide probably the best trashy screen without having to invest in Abbadon
you don't need to throw down abby though.
As for BS 5+. Are you new to R&H? BS5+ was always common for the meat of the army, except if you invested the points in the better units or upgraded your rable into an actually (somewhat) cohesive fighting force.
Infact that was part of the deal. Outnumber your enemy massively but suffer in performance or be off equal quality.
Now we can't do both. (because someone deemed it logical in the transition to 8th that militia is 4 pts now instead of 3, same with mutants. and decided that Veterans in the troop slot are not exitstent.
It's probably the biggest part wrong with the R&H list right now.
WinterLantern wrote: fam I ran militia grenadiers last edition. bs5+ is gak for me, imma still sad I lost my renegade tempestus
I always switched between bloody handed reaver and his full maxed out grenadier army or a heretek magos with lot's of Veterans with the 6+ FNP and 4 + armor.
I still believe that servants of the abyss may be our salvation.
Its piecemeal but atleast the troops are much better than ours other than lack of weapon customization which they may change.
With commisars are one of the only way to buff our troops and I'll be surprised if the firebrand doesn't provide a buff.
ulfhednir86 wrote: I still believe that servants of the abyss may be our salvation.
Its piecemeal but atleast the troops are much better than ours other than lack of weapon customization which they may change.
With commisars are one of the only way to buff our troops and I'll be surprised if the firebrand doesn't provide a buff.
yaaay.....
we will get replaced by gakky chaos guard that do not feel like the army should.
great.
ulfhednir86 wrote: I still believe that servants of the abyss may be our salvation.
Its piecemeal but atleast the troops are much better than ours other than lack of weapon customization which they may change.
With commisars are one of the only way to buff our troops and I'll be surprised if the firebrand doesn't provide a buff.
yaaay.....
we will get replaced by gakky chaos guard that do not feel like the army should.
great.
You mean like an army with beastmen, cheap powerful risky psychers, a few chaos marine overseers (but not always), melee guard and military grade troops (like pdf or blood pact) as well as expendable cultists. Sounds like the army should to me.
My army is formed my deserters (after being left to starve, freeze and die in the trenches) and after deserting they and their families were senticed to death so with no other alternative they rebelled. Launching a rebellion the underhivers joined them on a class war but still loyal to the big E and were winning until the planetary govener called in Astartes claming they were chaos worshipers. They started losing so turned to chaos out of desperation.
-Mutant uprisings (No beastmen do not count, Beastmen are not mutants)
- Heretek magi and their servitorized forces.
- Religious nutjobs
- Guerilla forces
- Mercenaries
And we are just talking about the options that were stripped out.
We get excactly PDF and spiky guard
With the most unfluffiest hq choice ever.
No, imo the servants are just lazy designed in their rule department especially compared to all other 8th creations.
Btw you want marine overseers? You allready have that, it's called csm codex.
I just described a revolutionary force.
Also warlords
Beastmen are mutants. They are not xenos they were human or historically were.
Negavolt cultists are much closer to heretek tha. Anything r&h has.
We have a fire brand and cultists coming so more religious units than R&H again.
Also smaller units are more guerilla than 10 man units and the speed boast from commissar also more in theme with guerilla forces.
Also traitor guard are much more mercenary than any troops choices r&h has.
If you want lazy look at the r&h index. The best units are either directly taken from a loyalist codex or elite choices which are copies of each other.
-Mutant uprisings (No beastmen do not count, Beastmen are not mutants)
- Heretek magi and their servitorized forces.
- Religious nutjobs
- Guerilla forces
- Mercenaries
And we are just talking about the options that were stripped out.
We get excactly PDF and spiky guard
With the most unfluffiest hq choice ever.
No, imo the servants are just lazy designed in their rule department especially compared to all other 8th creations.
Btw you want marine overseers? You allready have that, it's called csm codex.
I just described a revolutionary force.
Also warlords
Beastmen are mutants. They are not xenos they were human or historically were.
Negavolt cultists are much closer to heretek tha. Anything r&h has.
We have a fire brand and cultists coming so more religious units than R&H again.
Also smaller units are more guerilla than 10 man units and the speed boast from commissar also more in theme with guerilla forces.
Also traitor guard are much more mercenary than any troops choices r&h has.
If you want lazy look at the r&h index. The best units are either directly taken from a loyalist codex or elite choices which are copies of each other.
I don't look at the index, i want IA 13 level of customizability and options back.
The commisar alone is bs, as an option.
The firebrandspeaker we don't get, we get a cult leader
Beastmen are abhumans, don't belive me, check the Lexicanum, they are the same category as ratlings or ogryns. Which are not considered mutants.
Btw what you described is a bunch of deserters no political force that has started a Revolution.
At best you described a warlord. Which however would bring the question, why is he starving and has no body guard with hotshot guns.
Guerilla, based upon a commisar, beyond as allready stated that the commisar as option makes no sense whatsoever, is completely counterintuitve.
What there should be instead to propperly play Guerilla forces is democharges and sniperrifles equipped veteran options. Like IA 13. Not a bunch of spiky guardsmen with a moronical choice disregarding established fluff hq shouting at then.
Also traitor guardsmen are not mercenaries, they are traitors and deserters, units like marauders or the old grenadiers for renegades, that were mercs.
As for the elite choices the Marauders, ogryns and disciples are no copy, it's just that Gw deemed after the rules takeover after the death of the Fw subdivision leader, that r&h are not worth the effort.
Leading to command squads beeing elites instead of hq Bodyguards they were.
And you think really gw will do a good Job, when they can't even be bothered about propper understanding a list before they release a shity index?
Btw the last answer i got for my Mail after match 74 (I recently more or less stopped playing r&H) was simply.
"
We deem the state acceptable, we don't intend on changing anything. We also don't intend on expanding servants of the abyss and to incirporate them with the renegades and heretics index list as a, as you called it, "full unit".
"
My question to them was, if it wouldn't be possible to give the traitor guardsmen IG equipment options and size options for squads and if these could then replace the militia entry.
-Mutant uprisings (No beastmen do not count, Beastmen are not mutants)
- Heretek magi and their servitorized forces.
- Religious nutjobs
- Guerilla forces
- Mercenaries
And we are just talking about the options that were stripped out.
We get excactly PDF and spiky guard
With the most unfluffiest hq choice ever.
No, imo the servants are just lazy designed in their rule department especially compared to all other 8th creations.
Btw you want marine overseers? You allready have that, it's called csm codex.
I just described a revolutionary force.
Also warlords
Beastmen are mutants. They are not xenos they were human or historically were.
Negavolt cultists are much closer to heretek tha. Anything r&h has.
We have a fire brand and cultists coming so more religious units than R&H again.
Also smaller units are more guerilla than 10 man units and the speed boast from commissar also more in theme with guerilla forces.
Also traitor guard are much more mercenary than any troops choices r&h has.
If you want lazy look at the r&h index. The best units are either directly taken from a loyalist codex or elite choices which are copies of each other.
I don't look at the index, i want IA 13 level of customizability and options back.
The commisar alone is bs, as an option.
The firebrandspeaker we don't get, we get a cult leader
Beastmen are abhumans, don't belive me, check the Lexicanum, they are the same category as ratlings or ogryns. Which are not considered mutants.
Btw what you described is a bunch of deserters no political force that has started a Revolution.
At best you described a warlord. Which however would bring the question, why is he starving and has no body guard with hotshot guns.
Guerilla, based upon a commisar, beyond as allready stated that the commisar as option makes no sense whatsoever, is completely counterintuitve.
What there should be instead to propperly play Guerilla forces is democharges and sniperrifles equipped veteran options. Like IA 13. Not a bunch of spiky guardsmen with a moronical choice disregarding established fluff hq shouting at then.
Also traitor guardsmen are not mercenaries, they are traitors and deserters, units like marauders or the old grenadiers for renegades, that were mercs.
As for the elite choices the Marauders, ogryns and disciples are no copy, it's just that Gw deemed after the rules takeover after the death of the Fw subdivision leader, that r&h are not worth the effort.
Leading to command squads beeing elites instead of hq Bodyguards they were.
And you think really gw will do a good Job, when they can't even be bothered about propper understanding a list before they release a shity index?
Btw the last answer i got for my Mail after match 74 (I recently more or less stopped playing r&H) was simply.
"
We deem the state acceptable, we don't intend on changing anything. We also don't intend on expanding servants of the abyss and to incirporate them with the renegades and heretics index list as a, as you called it, "full unit".
"
My question to them was, if it wouldn't be possible to give the traitor guardsmen IG equipment options and size options for squads and if these could then replace the militia entry.
Yeah so much for that.
You know that alot of mercenaries are serving soldiers right? A lot of mercenaries in Iraq are from the new Zealand army.
I kinda agree about the commissar, could of just called him an cheif enforcer or something.
I did mention it became a class war right? That means to over throw the government and the upper classes. Thus revolutionary or atleast a codeta.
He has a ogryn body guard which is better than a hot shot gun.
I would like to see a guerilla force even with able to fall back and shoot like ultrasmurfs.
Still more likely than renegades and heretics getting an update.
So by the looks of it you have given up on r&h on favour of complaining about it and rejecting anything new that may help chaos guard get boots back on the table. Also since servants are getting more units soon so they are still getting expanded. Still a battalion of servants and a spearhead/vanguard of r&h
-Mutant uprisings (No beastmen do not count, Beastmen are not mutants)
- Heretek magi and their servitorized forces.
- Religious nutjobs
- Guerilla forces
- Mercenaries
And we are just talking about the options that were stripped out.
We get excactly PDF and spiky guard
With the most unfluffiest hq choice ever.
No, imo the servants are just lazy designed in their rule department especially compared to all other 8th creations.
Btw you want marine overseers? You allready have that, it's called csm codex.
I just described a revolutionary force.
Also warlords
Beastmen are mutants. They are not xenos they were human or historically were.
Negavolt cultists are much closer to heretek tha. Anything r&h has.
We have a fire brand and cultists coming so more religious units than R&H again.
Also smaller units are more guerilla than 10 man units and the speed boast from commissar also more in theme with guerilla forces.
Also traitor guard are much more mercenary than any troops choices r&h has.
If you want lazy look at the r&h index. The best units are either directly taken from a loyalist codex or elite choices which are copies of each other.
I don't look at the index, i want IA 13 level of customizability and options back.
The commisar alone is bs, as an option.
The firebrandspeaker we don't get, we get a cult leader
Beastmen are abhumans, don't belive me, check the Lexicanum, they are the same category as ratlings or ogryns. Which are not considered mutants.
Btw what you described is a bunch of deserters no political force that has started a Revolution.
At best you described a warlord. Which however would bring the question, why is he starving and has no body guard with hotshot guns.
Guerilla, based upon a commisar, beyond as allready stated that the commisar as option makes no sense whatsoever, is completely counterintuitve.
What there should be instead to propperly play Guerilla forces is democharges and sniperrifles equipped veteran options. Like IA 13. Not a bunch of spiky guardsmen with a moronical choice disregarding established fluff hq shouting at then.
Also traitor guardsmen are not mercenaries, they are traitors and deserters, units like marauders or the old grenadiers for renegades, that were mercs.
As for the elite choices the Marauders, ogryns and disciples are no copy, it's just that Gw deemed after the rules takeover after the death of the Fw subdivision leader, that r&h are not worth the effort.
Leading to command squads beeing elites instead of hq Bodyguards they were.
And you think really gw will do a good Job, when they can't even be bothered about propper understanding a list before they release a shity index?
Btw the last answer i got for my Mail after match 74 (I recently more or less stopped playing r&H) was simply.
"
We deem the state acceptable, we don't intend on changing anything. We also don't intend on expanding servants of the abyss and to incirporate them with the renegades and heretics index list as a, as you called it, "full unit".
"
My question to them was, if it wouldn't be possible to give the traitor guardsmen IG equipment options and size options for squads and if these could then replace the militia entry.
Yeah so much for that.
You know that alot of mercenaries are serving soldiers right? A lot of mercenaries in Iraq are from the new Zealand army.
I kinda agree about the commissar, could of just called him an cheif enforcer or something.
I did mention it became a class war right? That means to over throw the government and the upper classes. Thus revolutionary or atleast a codeta.
He has a ogryn body guard which is better than a hot shot gun.
I would like to see a guerilla force even with able to fall back and shoot like ultrasmurfs.
Still more likely than renegades and heretics getting an update.
So by the looks of it you have given up on r&h on favour of complaining about it and rejecting anything new that may help chaos guard get boots back on the table. Also since servants are getting more units soon so they are still getting expanded. Still a battalion of servants and a spearhead/vanguard of r&h
No, i am just pissed off at GW , especially thanks to the last Mail i got, which means that we will be sitting around approx 1-2 years more turning thumbs until even servants turn into something worth considering. Considering that they literally stated that they atm wouldn't even consider making traitor guardsmen into a propper unit with actual options in terms of size and equipment.
The ogryn whilest a nice ogryn model does not replace elite formations, with actual equipment.
I also reject the rules not the models, because compared to whats supposed to be in the list, from the established standard, nothing is, not even rules concerning morale or connections and interactions between units themselves.
Which to me atleast make the servants atleast now just a lazy once over.
Because what's the bloody point to give them 40 k rules when you get rien nada whilest everyone with actual commitment or basic reading comprehension could've allready written them appropriately in the first place.
Also the new firbrand is just hillarious, more fitting as a priest for gsc then Chaos.
-Mutant uprisings (No beastmen do not count, Beastmen are not mutants)
- Heretek magi and their servitorized forces.
- Religious nutjobs
- Guerilla forces
- Mercenaries
And we are just talking about the options that were stripped out.
We get excactly PDF and spiky guard
With the most unfluffiest hq choice ever.
No, imo the servants are just lazy designed in their rule department especially compared to all other 8th creations.
Btw you want marine overseers? You allready have that, it's called csm codex.
I just described a revolutionary force.
Also warlords
Beastmen are mutants. They are not xenos they were human or historically were.
Negavolt cultists are much closer to heretek tha. Anything r&h has.
We have a fire brand and cultists coming so more religious units than R&H again.
Also smaller units are more guerilla than 10 man units and the speed boast from commissar also more in theme with guerilla forces.
Also traitor guard are much more mercenary than any troops choices r&h has.
If you want lazy look at the r&h index. The best units are either directly taken from a loyalist codex or elite choices which are copies of each other.
I don't look at the index, i want IA 13 level of customizability and options back.
The commisar alone is bs, as an option.
The firebrandspeaker we don't get, we get a cult leader
Beastmen are abhumans, don't belive me, check the Lexicanum, they are the same category as ratlings or ogryns. Which are not considered mutants.
Btw what you described is a bunch of deserters no political force that has started a Revolution.
At best you described a warlord. Which however would bring the question, why is he starving and has no body guard with hotshot guns.
Guerilla, based upon a commisar, beyond as allready stated that the commisar as option makes no sense whatsoever, is completely counterintuitve.
What there should be instead to propperly play Guerilla forces is democharges and sniperrifles equipped veteran options. Like IA 13. Not a bunch of spiky guardsmen with a moronical choice disregarding established fluff hq shouting at then.
Also traitor guardsmen are not mercenaries, they are traitors and deserters, units like marauders or the old grenadiers for renegades, that were mercs.
As for the elite choices the Marauders, ogryns and disciples are no copy, it's just that Gw deemed after the rules takeover after the death of the Fw subdivision leader, that r&h are not worth the effort.
Leading to command squads beeing elites instead of hq Bodyguards they were.
And you think really gw will do a good Job, when they can't even be bothered about propper understanding a list before they release a shity index?
Btw the last answer i got for my Mail after match 74 (I recently more or less stopped playing r&H) was simply.
"
We deem the state acceptable, we don't intend on changing anything. We also don't intend on expanding servants of the abyss and to incirporate them with the renegades and heretics index list as a, as you called it, "full unit".
"
My question to them was, if it wouldn't be possible to give the traitor guardsmen IG equipment options and size options for squads and if these could then replace the militia entry.
Yeah so much for that.
You know that alot of mercenaries are serving soldiers right? A lot of mercenaries in Iraq are from the new Zealand army.
I kinda agree about the commissar, could of just called him an cheif enforcer or something.
I did mention it became a class war right? That means to over throw the government and the upper classes. Thus revolutionary or atleast a codeta.
He has a ogryn body guard which is better than a hot shot gun.
I would like to see a guerilla force even with able to fall back and shoot like ultrasmurfs.
Still more likely than renegades and heretics getting an update.
So by the looks of it you have given up on r&h on favour of complaining about it and rejecting anything new that may help chaos guard get boots back on the table. Also since servants are getting more units soon so they are still getting expanded. Still a battalion of servants and a spearhead/vanguard of r&h
No, i am just pissed off at GW , especially thanks to the last Mail i got, which means that we will be sitting around approx 1-2 years more turning thumbs until even servants turn into something worth considering. Considering that they literally stated that they atm wouldn't even consider making traitor guardsmen into a propper unit with actual options in terms of size and equipment.
The ogryn whilest a nice ogryn model does not replace elite formations, with actual equipment.
I also reject the rules not the models, because compared to whats supposed to be in the list, from the established standard, nothing is, not even rules concerning morale or connections and interactions between units themselves.
Which to me atleast make the servants atleast now just a lazy once over.
Because what's the bloody point to give them 40 k rules when you get rien nada whilest everyone with actual commitment or basic reading comprehension could've allready written them appropriately in the first place.
Also the new firbrand is just hillarious, more fitting as a priest for gsc then Chaos.
I may be relatively new to traitor guard but believe me I'm pissed off too with the lack of love for our army. I'm just trying to make it work personally I see servants being the next best thing troop wise.
The servant Ogryn is a character so can be used completely differently and more likely to make combat.
Personally the random moral made using r&h needlessly complicated to use and games alot longer. I liked the concept of random moral but the rule did put me off them alot. Traitor commissar does synergize with traitor guard units more so than most units in r&h, same with mallex and speculatively the firebrand which is said to use warp flame and empower nearby cultists.
Chaos is getting more ritualistic and fire branding with chaos symbols I see as more chaotic than alien. But that us my opinion and that of many by the looks in the comment section on the video about them https://youtu.be/Y8dsjlkc5qg
I'm fb Many have commented about the carnaval of chaos look about them which I see as well even though I prefer trench work and rebellion theme.
Rule wise the new cultists will be better than our troops. The unit will cost 40 points same as a naked militia unit but hit on a 4 and have a grenade launcher and heavy stubber.
Rule wise the new cultists will be better than our troops. The unit will cost 40 points same as a naked militia unit but hit on a 4 and have a grenade launcher and heavy stubber.
And where do we get these rules rumors?
Pray tell.
Personally the random moral made using r&h needlessly complicated to use and games alot longer. I liked the concept of random moral but the rule did put me off them alot. Traitor commissar does synergize with traitor guard units more so than most units in r&h, same with mallex and speculatively the firebrand which is said to use warp flame and empower nearby cultists.
And also said that he generates the flame within himself.
And then look at the fuel cable.
I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.
Rule wise the new cultists will be better than our troops. The unit will cost 40 points same as a naked militia unit but hit on a 4 and have a grenade launcher and heavy stubber.
And where do we get these rules rumors?
Pray tell.
Personally the random moral made using r&h needlessly complicated to use and games alot longer. I liked the concept of random moral but the rule did put me off them alot. Traitor commissar does synergize with traitor guard units more so than most units in r&h, same with mallex and speculatively the firebrand which is said to use warp flame and empower nearby cultists.
And also said that he generates the flame within himself.
And then look at the fuel cable.
Cultists are 5 points each 5x7 = 35
Stubbers are 2pts grenade launchers are 3pts
35+2+3=40.
"Cultist Firebrands are absolutely deadly at mid-range, and they also inflame the zeal of nearby Cultist hostiles. Their bodies are swollen with infernal power… so let’s just say you don’t want to be standing close to one when they’re killed…
ulfhednir86 wrote: I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.
Like that old rumour?
I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent
However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.
Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.
ulfhednir86 wrote: I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.
Like that old rumour?
I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent
However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.
Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.
My sister in law is thinking about a sisters army so that works out and it will be well suited and thematic IMHO. Also cheaper for ya hopefully since sisters are mono pose it maybe the cheap boxes like the know no fear boxes I love.
Oh I didnt even notice the stub carbine. That's cool
I think cultists are still suited for R&H and Servants since both are not just military elements but general heretics as well. Personally I would normally skip them for the trench style of my army but i do love the vraks style and the northern flank which was nurgle based and was cultists as well as deamons, military and nurgle marines.
Question: I'm looking at taking a Purge Devastation battery to go with my servants/r&h and deamon/death guard(poxwalker list) list.
The plan is to take the objectives and tie up enemy units with the troops, and use the purge stratagem to fire the fight to take out enemy vehicles. If I'm using poxwalkers I can pop the dead walk stratagem and fire into their fight to recuperate fallen poxwalkers.
What do you think is better havoks or obliterators?
ulfhednir86 wrote: I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.
Like that old rumour?
I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent
However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.
Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.
My sister in law is thinking about a sisters army so that works out and it will be well suited and thematic IMHO. Also cheaper for ya hopefully since sisters are mono pose it maybe the cheap boxes like the know no fear boxes I love.
Oh I didnt even notice the stub carbine. That's cool
I think cultists are still suited for R&H and Servants since both are not just military elements but general heretics as well. Personally I would normally skip them for the trench style of my army but i do love the vraks style and the northern flank which was nurgle based and was cultists as well as deamons, military and nurgle marines.
Question: I'm looking at taking a Purge Devastation battery to go with my servants/r&h and deamon/death guard(poxwalker list) list.
The plan is to take the objectives and tie up enemy units with the troops, and use the purge stratagem to fire the fight to take out enemy vehicles. If I'm using poxwalkers I can pop the dead walk stratagem and fire into their fight to recuperate fallen poxwalkers.
What do you think is better havoks or obliterators?
Honest answer, both are bad.
In your case go with Oblits however keep the detachment limit in mind.
Havocs just die too fast and Oblits that are not Slaanesh seriously have the succ unless you spam the nurgle tree thingy, and even then Oblits are not good, due to beeing unreliable (you think r&h morale is bad, take a look at the "weapon" Oblits have) expensive (115 pts /Obliterator is not a winning proposition often) and extremely cp hungry (command rerolls to save the gun throws, VotLW if you have access to it, purge shenanigans, etc)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
WinterLantern wrote: If the new blackstone cultists have to take carbines, heavy stubbers and flamers i'd happily take them.
Nade launcher autoguns and stubcarbines, it will 75% of the time be another absolutely abmissmal forced equipment situation.
Just the new leader get's a flamer fuelled by what i only can assume is fart gas.
ulfhednir86 wrote: I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.
Like that old rumour?
I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent
However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.
Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.
My sister in law is thinking about a sisters army so that works out and it will be well suited and thematic IMHO. Also cheaper for ya hopefully since sisters are mono pose it maybe the cheap boxes like the know no fear boxes I love.
Oh I didnt even notice the stub carbine. That's cool
I think cultists are still suited for R&H and Servants since both are not just military elements but general heretics as well. Personally I would normally skip them for the trench style of my army but i do love the vraks style and the northern flank which was nurgle based and was cultists as well as deamons, military and nurgle marines.
Question: I'm looking at taking a Purge Devastation battery to go with my servants/r&h and deamon/death guard(poxwalker list) list.
The plan is to take the objectives and tie up enemy units with the troops, and use the purge stratagem to fire the fight to take out enemy vehicles. If I'm using poxwalkers I can pop the dead walk stratagem and fire into their fight to recuperate fallen poxwalkers.
What do you think is better havoks or obliterators?
Honest answer, both are bad.
In your case go with Oblits however keep the detachment limit in mind.
Havocs just die too fast and Oblits that are not Slaanesh seriously have the succ unless you spam the nurgle tree thingy, and even then Oblits are not good, due to beeing unreliable (you think r&h morale is bad, take a look at the "weapon" Oblits have) expensive (115 pts /Obliterator is not a winning proposition often) and extremely cp hungry (command rerolls to save the gun throws, VotLW if you have access to it, purge shenanigans, etc)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
WinterLantern wrote: If the new blackstone cultists have to take carbines, heavy stubbers and flamers i'd happily take them.
Nade launcher autoguns and stubcarbines, it will 75% of the time be another absolutely abmissmal forced equipment situation.
Just the new leader get's a flamer fuelled by what i only can assume is fart gas.
Thank you for the advice what is VotLW?
And you still stay that grenade launchers are good on militia which only hits on a 5+, atleast cultists hit on a 4+ (not condoning the lack of weapon options but just stating that its probably how I would equip them anyway. Guard for front line with their armour and ld and cultists for fire support.
The firebrand is most likely a new hq or elite not inbeded on the unit and he does buff them (how we don't know yet but better than anything rdh give them currently).
Oh I've heard on fb that a servants of the abyss box is getting released latter this year so maybe a codex based on them (hopefully with weapon and unit size options) and could be reference to the sister vs traitor box.
Ps first time I used the spoiler command. Thank you fir the idea
ulfhednir86 wrote: I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.
Like that old rumour?
I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent
However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.
Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.
My sister in law is thinking about a sisters army so that works out and it will be well suited and thematic IMHO. Also cheaper for ya hopefully since sisters are mono pose it maybe the cheap boxes like the know no fear boxes I love.
Oh I didnt even notice the stub carbine. That's cool
I think cultists are still suited for R&H and Servants since both are not just military elements but general heretics as well. Personally I would normally skip them for the trench style of my army but i do love the vraks style and the northern flank which was nurgle based and was cultists as well as deamons, military and nurgle marines.
Question: I'm looking at taking a Purge Devastation battery to go with my servants/r&h and deamon/death guard(poxwalker list) list.
The plan is to take the objectives and tie up enemy units with the troops, and use the purge stratagem to fire the fight to take out enemy vehicles. If I'm using poxwalkers I can pop the dead walk stratagem and fire into their fight to recuperate fallen poxwalkers.
What do you think is better havoks or obliterators?
Honest answer, both are bad.
In your case go with Oblits however keep the detachment limit in mind.
Havocs just die too fast and Oblits that are not Slaanesh seriously have the succ unless you spam the nurgle tree thingy, and even then Oblits are not good, due to beeing unreliable (you think r&h morale is bad, take a look at the "weapon" Oblits have) expensive (115 pts /Obliterator is not a winning proposition often) and extremely cp hungry (command rerolls to save the gun throws, VotLW if you have access to it, purge shenanigans, etc)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
WinterLantern wrote: If the new blackstone cultists have to take carbines, heavy stubbers and flamers i'd happily take them.
Nade launcher autoguns and stubcarbines, it will 75% of the time be another absolutely abmissmal forced equipment situation.
Just the new leader get's a flamer fuelled by what i only can assume is fart gas.
Thank you for the advice what is VotLW?
And you still stay that grenade launchers are good on militia which only hits on a 5+, atleast cultists hit on a 4+ (not condoning the lack of weapon options but just stating that its probably how I would equip them anyway. Guard for front line with their armour and ld and cultists for fire support.
The firebrand is most likely a new hq or elite not inbeded on the unit and he does buff them (how we don't know yet but better than anything rdh give them currently).
Oh I've heard on fb that a servants of the abyss box is getting released latter this year so maybe a codex based on them (hopefully with weapon and unit size options) and could be reference to the sister vs traitor box.
Ps first time I used the spoiler command. Thank you fir the idea
The nade launcher is fine. Fine enough, just rarely a point for it when the stubber is 1 pts less with more strength and range. ( ofcourse with better BS that might change due to krak nades
I bet the firebrand get's an aura. because GW is lazy
VotWL is a 1 CP stratagem on a unit that is from a traitor legion. (so not for purge) Which improves all wound rolls by one. (Veterans of the long war)
Yes that means that boltguns can wound knights with t8 on 5+. It's an extremely good stratagem and a even better failsave for Obliterators, however purge don't get it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW just a thought experiment.
If indeed we for whatever reason would get access to stub carbines would you field them? For all infantry of course?Even if they would be potentially 1 pts/ model?
Not Online!!! wrote: [
BTW just a thought experiment.
If indeed we for whatever reason would get access to stub carbines would you field them? For all infantry of course?Even if they would be potentially 1 pts/ model?
I'd take stub carbines. a point for 3 shots each is a pretty good deal. I wish sonic blasters were just one or two points.
ulfhednir86 wrote: I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.
Like that old rumour?
I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent
However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.
Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.
My sister in law is thinking about a sisters army so that works out and it will be well suited and thematic IMHO. Also cheaper for ya hopefully since sisters are mono pose it maybe the cheap boxes like the know no fear boxes I love.
Oh I didnt even notice the stub carbine. That's cool
I think cultists are still suited for R&H and Servants since both are not just military elements but general heretics as well. Personally I would normally skip them for the trench style of my army but i do love the vraks style and the northern flank which was nurgle based and was cultists as well as deamons, military and nurgle marines.
Question: I'm looking at taking a Purge Devastation battery to go with my servants/r&h and deamon/death guard(poxwalker list) list.
The plan is to take the objectives and tie up enemy units with the troops, and use the purge stratagem to fire the fight to take out enemy vehicles. If I'm using poxwalkers I can pop the dead walk stratagem and fire into their fight to recuperate fallen poxwalkers.
What do you think is better havoks or obliterators?
Honest answer, both are bad.
In your case go with Oblits however keep the detachment limit in mind.
Havocs just die too fast and Oblits that are not Slaanesh seriously have the succ unless you spam the nurgle tree thingy, and even then Oblits are not good, due to beeing unreliable (you think r&h morale is bad, take a look at the "weapon" Oblits have) expensive (115 pts /Obliterator is not a winning proposition often) and extremely cp hungry (command rerolls to save the gun throws, VotLW if you have access to it, purge shenanigans, etc)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
WinterLantern wrote: If the new blackstone cultists have to take carbines, heavy stubbers and flamers i'd happily take them.
Nade launcher autoguns and stubcarbines, it will 75% of the time be another absolutely abmissmal forced equipment situation.
Just the new leader get's a flamer fuelled by what i only can assume is fart gas.
Thank you for the advice what is VotLW?
And you still stay that grenade launchers are good on militia which only hits on a 5+, atleast cultists hit on a 4+ (not condoning the lack of weapon options but just stating that its probably how I would equip them anyway. Guard for front line with their armour and ld and cultists for fire support.
The firebrand is most likely a new hq or elite not inbeded on the unit and he does buff them (how we don't know yet but better than anything rdh give them currently).
Oh I've heard on fb that a servants of the abyss box is getting released latter this year so maybe a codex based on them (hopefully with weapon and unit size options) and could be reference to the sister vs traitor box.
Ps first time I used the spoiler command. Thank you fir the idea
The nade launcher is fine. Fine enough, just rarely a point for it when the stubber is 1 pts less with more strength and range. ( ofcourse with better BS that might change due to krak nades
I bet the firebrand get's an aura. because GW is lazy
VotWL is a 1 CP stratagem on a unit that is from a traitor legion. (so not for purge) Which improves all wound rolls by one. (Veterans of the long war)
Yes that means that boltguns can wound knights with t8 on 5+. It's an extremely good stratagem and a even better failsave for Obliterators, however purge don't get it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW just a thought experiment.
If indeed we for whatever reason would get access to stub carbines would you field them? For all infantry of course?Even if they would be potentially 1 pts/ model?
Tbh I thought the stubber was 24" just like the nade launcher and autoguns so threat range like you taught me.
I don't mind if the firebrand is an aura it's one thing we lack and is a good way to get a buff out. What the aura does is what I mean. We will find out tomorrow.
Ah veteran's of the long war. Purge should get it since they are in the chaos 2.0 codex and the Bringers of Oblivion (You can re-roll hit rolls for attacks that target a unit that has lost one or more wounds this turn. Applies in both the Shooting and Fight phases) will work well with that
I'd need to run the math but likely to use it.
Superior damage and if need be can advance.
Purge don't get it, Vigilus ablaze and csm codex clearly state that renegades do not get access to it. And purge are renegades.
Which is one of the reason you only ever see purge or RC due to them beeing the best traits and rulewise from the renegades.
As for the stub carbines.
I would really like them on my drop in disciples.
Also rof is overall 3x higher. However threat range is for my renegades less of an issue well since i aim for close range Engagements.
Purge don't get it, Vigilus ablaze and csm codex clearly state that renegades do not get access to it. And purge are renegades.
Which is one of the reason you only ever see purge or RC due to them beeing the best traits and rulewise from the renegades.
As for the stub carbines.
I would really like them on my drop in disciples.
Also rof is overall 3x higher. However threat range is for my renegades less of an issue well since i aim for close range Engagements.
That sucks about the stratagem. Maybe go black legion and take mallex as he buffs both black legion and Servants of the abyss,but then miss out on the pox walker combo.
Yeah on disciples or marauders would be great.
So no news on what the firebrand buff sadly but the cultists basically get their weapons free.
The servants of the mallex rule is more harm than help, but atleast I don't take him anyway so it doesn't matter to me.
That said if they are going with cheaper units with debuffs like the servants of mallex rule that would work for me.
Not Online!!! wrote: Then just field 2 traitor Commissars instead No issue then no?
That's the plan Or a commie and fire brand.
Or if there is no stupid limits on cultists just a bunch of cultists and 2 firebrands depending on the points cost and buff of the fb
Not Online!!! wrote: Then just field 2 traitor Commissars instead No issue then no?
That's the plan Or a commie and fire brand.
Or if there is no stupid limits on cultists just a bunch of cultists and 2 firebrands depending on the points cost and buff of the fb
Not Online!!! wrote: Then just field 2 traitor Commissars instead No issue then no?
That's the plan Or a commie and fire brand.
Or if there is no stupid limits on cultists just a bunch of cultists and 2 firebrands depending on the points cost and buff of the fb
Firebrand might end up as elite though.
Also i really wanted stub carbines.
Its rare for characters to be elites but not impossible.
Yeah it's good we get them and that the cultists are a decent unified loadout and only 35 points a unit. Still no fast attack or heavy support tho or I may of looked at a brigade. But will see what the future holds. I think bsf is making them money just for the servants so I think we will see more for them. Also if the rumour I heard is true we will see a codex late this year for em and hopefully it will reward all of us for our patients.
Not Online!!! wrote: Then just field 2 traitor Commissars instead No issue then no?
That's the plan Or a commie and fire brand.
Or if there is no stupid limits on cultists just a bunch of cultists and 2 firebrands depending on the points cost and buff of the fb
Firebrand might end up as elite though.
Also i really wanted stub carbines.
Its rare for characters to be elites but not impossible.
Yeah it's good we get them and that the cultists are a decent unified loadout and only 35 points a unit. Still no fast attack or heavy support tho or I may of looked at a brigade. But will see what the future holds. I think bsf is making them money just for the servants so I think we will see more for them. Also if the rumour I heard is true we will see a codex late this year for em and hopefully it will reward all of us for our patients.
Doubt it, considering they still want to publish alot of sm supplements aswell as SoB and AoS still also exists.
Not Online!!! wrote: Then just field 2 traitor Commissars instead No issue then no?
That's the plan Or a commie and fire brand.
Or if there is no stupid limits on cultists just a bunch of cultists and 2 firebrands depending on the points cost and buff of the fb
Firebrand might end up as elite though.
Also i really wanted stub carbines.
Its rare for characters to be elites but not impossible.
Yeah it's good we get them and that the cultists are a decent unified loadout and only 35 points a unit. Still no fast attack or heavy support tho or I may of looked at a brigade. But will see what the future holds. I think bsf is making them money just for the servants so I think we will see more for them. Also if the rumour I heard is true we will see a codex late this year for em and hopefully it will reward all of us for our patients.
Doubt it, considering they still want to publish alot of sm supplements aswell as SoB and AoS still also exists.
With the rate of publication I wouldn't be surprised if it is the soa + sob release.
Not Online!!! wrote: On a positive side note, the Autoguns the cultists have is the same pattern vraksian renegades had.
Imagine, bloody autoguns with Stocks!
Well done gw!
Yeah I noticed that it's one of my favourite things about the minis. That and unisex also the ammo runner.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have a feeling the firebrand buff is actually when a cultist/cultist unit dies within an aura they inflict mortal wounds on enemies within range.
Thoughts on possibility and useability?
Not Online!!! wrote: On a positive side note, the Autoguns the cultists have is the same pattern vraksian renegades had.
Imagine, bloody autoguns with Stocks!
Well done gw!
Yeah I noticed that it's one of my favourite things about the minis. That and unisex also the ammo runner.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have a feeling the firebrand buff is actually when a cultist/cultist unit dies within an aura they inflict mortal wounds on enemies within range.
Thoughts on possibility and useability?
Low, it's 8 inch, altough Tbf the torch is a rather nice flamer.
Not Online!!! wrote: On a positive side note, the Autoguns the cultists have is the same pattern vraksian renegades had.
Imagine, bloody autoguns with Stocks!
Well done gw!
Yeah I noticed that it's one of my favourite things about the minis. That and unisex also the ammo runner.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have a feeling the firebrand buff is actually when a cultist/cultist unit dies within an aura they inflict mortal wounds on enemies within range.
Thoughts on possibility and useability?
Low, it's 8 inch, altough Tbf the torch is a rather nice flamer.
Indeed a good anti primarius weapon or other elites.
So fire brand is an elite (Not Online is a secret psycher) 30 points.
Explodes on death on a 5+ and mortal wounds all units within 3"
3+ to hit, 4 str & tough, 3 attacks and wounds
Hellfire staff, Assault d6, 8", str 5, ap - 1, 2 damage auto hit
Las pistol, frag and krak grenades. Sad the hellfire staff ain't a melee weapon as well.
Cultists 35 points
Leader has the stub carbine
Pistol 3, 18", Str 4
Autoguns, heavy stubber, grenade launcher, frag and krak grenades.
The fire brand being a elite not an hq is sad but otherwise not bad to hide behind the screen to overwatch or intervene against trash.
So fire brand is an elite (Not Online is a secret psycher) 30 points.
Explodes on death on a 5+ and mortal wounds all units within 3"
3+ to hit, 4 str & tough, 3 attacks and wounds
Hellfire staff, Assault d6, 8", str 5, ap - 1, 2 damage auto hit
Las pistol, frag and krak grenades. Sad the hellfire staff ain't a melee weapon as well.
Cultists 35 points
Leader has the stub carbine
Pistol 3, 18", Str 4
Autoguns, heavy stubber, grenade launcher, frag and krak grenades.
The fire brand being a elite not an hq is sad but otherwise not bad to hide behind the screen to overwatch or intervene against trash.
Not a Psyker, just a former NCO for füsiliers, you develop rather fast a bullshitometter that warns you ahead of time for bs, in this case i had it nearly broken
Btw stubcarbines are s3, still an awesome weapon.
Me wants access to it!
So fire brand is an elite (Not Online is a secret psycher) 30 points.
Explodes on death on a 5+ and mortal wounds all units within 3"
3+ to hit, 4 str & tough, 3 attacks and wounds
Hellfire staff, Assault d6, 8", str 5, ap - 1, 2 damage auto hit
Las pistol, frag and krak grenades. Sad the hellfire staff ain't a melee weapon as well.
Cultists 35 points
Leader has the stub carbine
Pistol 3, 18", Str 4
Autoguns, heavy stubber, grenade launcher, frag and krak grenades.
The fire brand being a elite not an hq is sad but otherwise not bad to hide behind the screen to overwatch or intervene against trash.
Not a Psyker, just a former NCO for füsiliers, you develop rather fast a bullshitometter that warns you ahead of time for bs, in this case i had it nearly broken
Btw stubcarbines are s3, still an awesome weapon.
Me wants access to it!
Watch the review the stud carbine is str4 Me likely alot
So fire brand is an elite (Not Online is a secret psycher) 30 points.
Explodes on death on a 5+ and mortal wounds all units within 3"
3+ to hit, 4 str & tough, 3 attacks and wounds
Hellfire staff, Assault d6, 8", str 5, ap - 1, 2 damage auto hit
Las pistol, frag and krak grenades. Sad the hellfire staff ain't a melee weapon as well.
Cultists 35 points
Leader has the stub carbine
Pistol 3, 18", Str 4
Autoguns, heavy stubber, grenade launcher, frag and krak grenades.
The fire brand being a elite not an hq is sad but otherwise not bad to hide behind the screen to overwatch or intervene against trash.
Not a Psyker, just a former NCO for füsiliers, you develop rather fast a bullshitometter that warns you ahead of time for bs, in this case i had it nearly broken
Btw stubcarbines are s3, still an awesome weapon.
Me wants access to it!
Watch the review the stud carbine is str4 Me likely alot
Feck me,it's pistol 3 oopps
That is honestly quite impressive! And I assume a typo considering the admech stub carbines have s3 but identical profile.
But if not, that's basically a mini stubber with mobility maintained. THAT IS HUGE?
So fire brand is an elite (Not Online is a secret psycher) 30 points.
Explodes on death on a 5+ and mortal wounds all units within 3"
3+ to hit, 4 str & tough, 3 attacks and wounds
Hellfire staff, Assault d6, 8", str 5, ap - 1, 2 damage auto hit
Las pistol, frag and krak grenades. Sad the hellfire staff ain't a melee weapon as well.
Cultists 35 points
Leader has the stub carbine
Pistol 3, 18", Str 4
Autoguns, heavy stubber, grenade launcher, frag and krak grenades.
The fire brand being a elite not an hq is sad but otherwise not bad to hide behind the screen to overwatch or intervene against trash.
Not a Psyker, just a former NCO for füsiliers, you develop rather fast a bullshitometter that warns you ahead of time for bs, in this case i had it nearly broken
Btw stubcarbines are s3, still an awesome weapon.
Me wants access to it!
Watch the review the stud carbine is str4 Me likely alot
Feck me,it's pistol 3 oopps
That is honestly quite impressive! And I assume a typo considering the admech stub carbines have s3 but identical profile.
But if not, that's basically a mini stubber with mobility maintained. THAT IS HUGE?
Is it huge though? I mean... you can have a maximum of one of these in an army. I don't think an extra bolter is going to tip the balance anywhere.
So fire brand is an elite (Not Online is a secret psycher) 30 points.
Explodes on death on a 5+ and mortal wounds all units within 3"
3+ to hit, 4 str & tough, 3 attacks and wounds
Hellfire staff, Assault d6, 8", str 5, ap - 1, 2 damage auto hit
Las pistol, frag and krak grenades. Sad the hellfire staff ain't a melee weapon as well.
Cultists 35 points
Leader has the stub carbine
Pistol 3, 18", Str 4
Autoguns, heavy stubber, grenade launcher, frag and krak grenades.
The fire brand being a elite not an hq is sad but otherwise not bad to hide behind the screen to overwatch or intervene against trash.
Not a Psyker, just a former NCO for füsiliers, you develop rather fast a bullshitometter that warns you ahead of time for bs, in this case i had it nearly broken
Btw stubcarbines are s3, still an awesome weapon.
Me wants access to it!
Watch the review the stud carbine is str4 Me likely alot
Feck me,it's pistol 3 oopps
That is honestly quite impressive! And I assume a typo considering the admech stub carbines have s3 but identical profile.
But if not, that's basically a mini stubber with mobility maintained. THAT IS HUGE?
Is it huge though? I mean... you can have a maximum of one of these in an army. I don't think an extra bolter is going to tip the balance anywhere.
It's better then a bolter tbh and if it gets to be a option for equipment that could get massed it is huge.
It is also a damn good gun for a small unit to have.
So fire brand is an elite (Not Online is a secret psycher) 30 points.
Explodes on death on a 5+ and mortal wounds all units within 3"
3+ to hit, 4 str & tough, 3 attacks and wounds
Hellfire staff, Assault d6, 8", str 5, ap - 1, 2 damage auto hit
Las pistol, frag and krak grenades. Sad the hellfire staff ain't a melee weapon as well.
Cultists 35 points
Leader has the stub carbine
Pistol 3, 18", Str 4
Autoguns, heavy stubber, grenade launcher, frag and krak grenades.
The fire brand being a elite not an hq is sad but otherwise not bad to hide behind the screen to overwatch or intervene against trash.
Not a Psyker, just a former NCO for füsiliers, you develop rather fast a bullshitometter that warns you ahead of time for bs, in this case i had it nearly broken
Btw stubcarbines are s3, still an awesome weapon.
Me wants access to it!
Watch the review the stud carbine is str4 Me likely alot
Feck me,it's pistol 3 oopps
That is honestly quite impressive! And I assume a typo considering the admech stub carbines have s3 but identical profile.
But if not, that's basically a mini stubber with mobility maintained. THAT IS HUGE?
Is it huge though? I mean... you can have a maximum of one of these in an army. I don't think an extra bolter is going to tip the balance anywhere.
It's better then a bolter tbh and if it gets to be a option for equipment that could get massed it is huge.
It is also a damn good gun for a small unit to have.
I mean it's not like it's a chaincannon or a lascannon. It's better than a bolter, but only marginally.
I agree, it would become a good gun if it was something every single cultist could take. But that will literally never happen. It's something a single unique model can have, so 1 3-shot bolter per 2000 points.
If you could use these cultists as troops choices and have 6 squads of them, then maybe. But you can't, and you never will.
So fire brand is an elite (Not Online is a secret psycher) 30 points.
Explodes on death on a 5+ and mortal wounds all units within 3"
3+ to hit, 4 str & tough, 3 attacks and wounds
Hellfire staff, Assault d6, 8", str 5, ap - 1, 2 damage auto hit
Las pistol, frag and krak grenades. Sad the hellfire staff ain't a melee weapon as well.
Cultists 35 points
Leader has the stub carbine
Pistol 3, 18", Str 4
Autoguns, heavy stubber, grenade launcher, frag and krak grenades.
The fire brand being a elite not an hq is sad but otherwise not bad to hide behind the screen to overwatch or intervene against trash.
Not a Psyker, just a former NCO for füsiliers, you develop rather fast a bullshitometter that warns you ahead of time for bs, in this case i had it nearly broken
Btw stubcarbines are s3, still an awesome weapon.
Me wants access to it!
Watch the review the stud carbine is str4 Me likely alot
Feck me,it's pistol 3 oopps
That is honestly quite impressive! And I assume a typo considering the admech stub carbines have s3 but identical profile.
But if not, that's basically a mini stubber with mobility maintained. THAT IS HUGE?
Is it huge though? I mean... you can have a maximum of one of these in an army. I don't think an extra bolter is going to tip the balance anywhere.
It's better then a bolter tbh and if it gets to be a option for equipment that could get massed it is huge.
It is also a damn good gun for a small unit to have.
I mean it's not like it's a chaincannon or a lascannon. It's better than a bolter, but only marginally.
I agree, it would become a good gun if it was something every single cultist could take. But that will literally never happen. It's something a single unique model can have, so 1 3-shot bolter per 2000 points.
If you could use these cultists as troops choices and have 6 squads of them, then maybe. But you can't, and you never will.
You can though allready.
And the gun is for an infantry gun without special rule strengthening allready very powerfull.
Of course, i would expect that if servants ever would get a dex and that gun be an an option that it would be atleast 1 pts.
I do hope also if it eventually happens that we can get units armed with these, even if it is elite infantry only.
So fire brand is an elite (Not Online is a secret psycher) 30 points.
Explodes on death on a 5+ and mortal wounds all units within 3"
3+ to hit, 4 str & tough, 3 attacks and wounds
Hellfire staff, Assault d6, 8", str 5, ap - 1, 2 damage auto hit
Las pistol, frag and krak grenades. Sad the hellfire staff ain't a melee weapon as well.
Cultists 35 points
Leader has the stub carbine
Pistol 3, 18", Str 4
Autoguns, heavy stubber, grenade launcher, frag and krak grenades.
The fire brand being a elite not an hq is sad but otherwise not bad to hide behind the screen to overwatch or intervene against trash.
Not a Psyker, just a former NCO for füsiliers, you develop rather fast a bullshitometter that warns you ahead of time for bs, in this case i had it nearly broken
Btw stubcarbines are s3, still an awesome weapon.
Me wants access to it!
Watch the review the stud carbine is str4 Me likely alot
Feck me,it's pistol 3 oopps
That is honestly quite impressive! And I assume a typo considering the admech stub carbines have s3 but identical profile.
But if not, that's basically a mini stubber with mobility maintained. THAT IS HUGE?
Is it huge though? I mean... you can have a maximum of one of these in an army. I don't think an extra bolter is going to tip the balance anywhere.
It's better then a bolter tbh and if it gets to be a option for equipment that could get massed it is huge.
It is also a damn good gun for a small unit to have.
I mean it's not like it's a chaincannon or a lascannon. It's better than a bolter, but only marginally.
I agree, it would become a good gun if it was something every single cultist could take. But that will literally never happen. It's something a single unique model can have, so 1 3-shot bolter per 2000 points.
If you could use these cultists as troops choices and have 6 squads of them, then maybe. But you can't, and you never will.
[/spoiler]
You can have an entire army of these cultists. There is no 1 per army limit and if you have mallex they don't take a slot anyway. Idk why you would but its possible and they are very good for their cost.
bah ,we are anyways out, due to the legends category.
Might aswell close this thread down. Because it becomes increasingly clear that we are not wished for to exist by GW:
Also, hillariously there isn't even any sign for Servants of the abyss. So not only are we looking at a banishment into legends category but also have no replacement ready
I think youre mistaking Indexes for Imperial armor as well. I really doubt theyd lock ALL OF FORGEWORLD out from events or indeed from any future balancing.
This is purely for the 40k indexes from the start of 8th.
nnnah FW are tenacious in having their gak cling on considering chaos dwarves are still playable for aos. One of the drunken dreadnoughts podcasts pointed out renegades are gonna be around for a good while yet just cos of how FW operate, they just won't be very competitive or up to date. It's looking like outside of their mass chaff niche, you'd be bettor off playing genestealer cult, guard or heck even tau if you can convert it all well enough.
Well this seems an appropriate place as any. Hello fellow Renegades and or Heretics. I got tired of waiting for some sort of codex and decided to make my own. For impartialities sake, and ironically enough, I probably won’t ever use it myself but would be happy for anyone using it to give feedback. Hell, even if you don’t use it I wouldn’t mind feedback.
Mind you it is CURRENTLY INCOMPLETE, so while I have some rules and most units planned I haven’t fleshed them out either statwise or maybe even at all. Feeling somewhat okay with most of the Stratagems, traits, relics, and [Insurgency]’s (my army wide rule versions.
Access it here:
(Add h t t p s : / / without spaces if just that don’t work. I’m not allowed to link yet.)
Honestly didn’t know where else I would put this, at least I know some R&H players come to this thread. Spread the word if you like, or don’t, maybe I’ll be back with my own thoughts on it, maybe it’ll be limited to PM’s, in any case, goodnight for now.
—————
Alright decided to give some of my thought process for this.
Special Rules: Rabble and True Believer basically boil down into simpler and more thematic Uncertain Worth. Troops basically become worthless without the backbone of fanatics holding them in line.
Insurgency: I decided to forgo locking army wide things to specific HQ choices so to stay more in line with 8e’s rules. I then themed them both on demagogues and the general ‘what kind of Insurgency occurs within the imperium’. I left out religious rebellion stuff because I figured I could make a couple of specialist detachments like Doom Cult or Apostasy or something or another.
Warlord Traits: I focused mostly on the type of people that run rebellions, from righteous to cowardly, to selfish or megalomaniacal.
Relics: mostly small stuff not much too them.
Stratagems: two main important ones, Archdemagogue and Chaos Covenant tie back into both the old and new systems. Which also allows you be one the other or both. I tried to make sure combos couldn’t get too crazy but also made sure to ensure little overlap between stuff. Fun combos still abound, but I think it plays to the army. Chaos Covenants are still broad but now hopefully a bit more balanced against each other, minor boons, all useful(except maybe Nurgle, still thinking about that one). All CP costs are currently up to debate.
Naturalnuke wrote: Well this seems an appropriate place as any. Hello fellow Renegades and or Heretics. I got tired of waiting for some sort of codex and decided to make my own. For impartialities sake, and ironically enough, I probably won’t ever use it myself but would be happy for anyone using it to give feedback. Hell, even if you don’t use it I wouldn’t mind feedback.
Mind you it is CURRENTLY INCOMPLETE, so while I have some rules and most units planned I haven’t fleshed them out either statwise or maybe even at all. Feeling somewhat okay with most of the Stratagems, traits, relics, and [Insurgency]’s (my army wide rule versions.
Access it here:
(Add h t t p s : / / without spaces if just that don’t work. I’m not allowed to link yet.)
Honestly didn’t know where else I would put this, at least I know some R&H players come to this thread. Spread the word if you like, or don’t, maybe I’ll be back with my own thoughts on it, maybe it’ll be limited to PM’s, in any case, goodnight for now.
Will take a gander, since i and others attempted the same
If they're doing all the Forgeworld books, it would imply that R+H will be included.
Hopefully with a list at least functional for casual play.
Even if they immediately threw the army into Legends, as long as they revised it before they did, that would Still be preferable to leaving it as it is.
Or maybe they'll Squat it. But the fact that they included them in Apocalypse (and fixed a thing or two when they did!) give me hope doubt that they won't do something with it, even if it's just some legit casual improvements.
If they're doing all the Forgeworld books, it would imply that R+H will be included.
Hopefully with a list at least functional for casual play.
Even if they immediately threw the army into Legends, as long as they revised it before they did, that would Still be preferable to leaving it as it is.
Or maybe they'll Squat it. But the fact that they included them in Apocalypse (and fixed a thing or two when they did!) give me hope doubt that they won't do something with it, even if it's just some legit casual improvements.
MAybee we actually get something worthwile out of it.
Allbeit i do wonder were the CAfaq is.
I admit fully that i gave them heavy flak, but at this stage i am surprised that it isn't out yet.
Excommunicatus wrote: Voyna Narodnaya is now purely a modelling project so while it would still suck to have everything taken away, it wouldn't actually effect me at all.
I'm all in for Kill Team these days and there I just run my dudespeople as Astra Militarum.
can fully reccomend the rules for KT for BSF, quite decent and a lot of possible shenanigans for the list, certainly a lot more interesting than AM.
Oh yeah? I have their rules in Kill Team Annual, but I haven't checked them out.
I'll go have a butcher's.
Danke.
EDIT - Hmm. I'm not convinced. I just don't have the models to make a good SoA KT and I'm unsure that adding a Traitor Commissar (whose model I'm already using as a Sergeant) and two Rogue Psykers makes up for losing access to eight Special Weapons and VoC.
Plus, Black Legion. Eww. Plus, plus, they're built from Cadian parts.
I guess there's nothing to stop me knocking a list together and seeing how it performs.
Excommunicatus wrote: Oh yeah? I have their rules in Kill Team Annual, but I haven't checked them out.
I'll go have a butcher's.
Danke.
EDIT - Hmm. I'm not convinced. I just don't have the models to make a good SoA KT and I'm unsure that adding a Traitor Commissar (whose model I'm already using as a Sergeant) and two Rogue Psykers makes up for losing access to eight Special Weapons and VoC.
Plus, Black Legion. Eww. Plus, plus, they're built from Cadian parts.
I guess there's nothing to stop me knocking a list together and seeing how it performs.
The BSF traitors are somewhat based on cadians, yeah but they are definately nights and day different then what cadians are ( just better proportionate, varied gender, better equipment etc.)
Honestly some of the best stuff in there is the Rogue psyker, the Negavolt cultists, no seriously they are really tough and dangerous for what they are, especially when you use the stratagem, the Legionaires are decent morale linchpins, flamers are decent, the cultists themselves are phenomenal, especially the champion with it's stubcarbine.
I haven't even bought any Vic Mini bits yet and my R&H models are already nearly 15% female.
Once I have the bits, that goes up to 29%. So gender isn't really an issue for me.
I'm going to go ahead and start a SoA KT thread, we probably shouldn't be spamming this up talking about a different gaming system and different Faction.
EDIT - Actually, no I'm not. The only part of the SoA that really appeals to me is the Traitor Commissar, who has no options and is armed in a way I cannot represent, and the Rogue Psykers. I'm gonna stick with using my dudes as Astra Militarum and eventually both types of Cultists.
Plus, I already have a squishy melee Kill Team in my Daemonettes.
