Freezeframing the bit with the Orks are facing off against GSC. The neophytes are on 25mm except for their heavy weapons guy, who’s on 32mm. The Orks match his. (Well, and you can tell their gorilla asses are no longer hanging off the side, too.)
It doesn't look like a new ork kit though. It's the same body and arms for the plastic boyz. Nothing stops you from placing them on 32s right now.
Already have, since AoS ‘Ardboyz went to 32mm. Still, it’s nice not to have base size arguments.
I think its assumed it will follow a similar template to the last version- wound/save limit, so nothing above a 2+ armour save and over 4/5 wounds? maybe.
So when are we gonna start seeing some solid info on this do you think? We guessed right in that its coming in July, my money was on the 2nd week.
Process wrote: I think its assumed it will follow a similar template to the last version- wound/save limit, so nothing above a 2+ armour save and over 4/5 wounds? maybe.
It's a new game system (with alternate activation amongst other things), and will not use the existing 40K codex, so the limits we had in previous iterations can't exist as is.
The video is mostly standard infantry, but since there are also some thunderwolves, we might see termies or even light vehicles.
If I could field a small DW Kill Team, a DW Dreadnought(Ambulatory Washing Machine Pattern of course, I'm not greedy), and an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, and if regular, non-Cawl'd Space Marines are actual badasses for a change, I might just redivert my planned Star Wars Legion spending back into 40K stuff.
If it goes as far as allowing for a kind of pseudo-GorkaMorka, I may need to mortgage my flat
Freezeframing the bit with the Orks are facing off against GSC. The neophytes are on 25mm except for their heavy weapons guy, who’s on 32mm. The Orks match his. (Well, and you can tell their gorilla asses are no longer hanging off the side, too.)
It doesn't look like a new ork kit though. It's the same body and arms for the plastic boyz. Nothing stops you from placing them on 32s right now.
Means your army will take huge nerf though.
Not to mention remove even more point of any semblance of tactics from game without upgrading board sizes...
What an oddly dated looking cover. The art style and font makes it look like something out of the 80s or maybe early 90s. Especially the dull red.
The art influences seem all over the place and jump from character to character. No idea what to make of leather bustier with boob caps, skirt, some lace wedding dress elements and a plumed hat. Except for the small two headed eagle on the mismatched pauldrons, there's nothing (in the art) to indicate 40k at all.
I dunno, she's got that flamboyant Rogue Trader look. Opera gloves, massive hat feathers, ornate cuirass, swagger stick and flintlock style pistol all fit that 40k æsthetic. In fact, the whole cover has a bit of a retro vibe to it. I like it.
Voss wrote: What an oddly dated looking cover. The art style and font makes it look like something out of the 80s or maybe early 90s. Especially the dull red.
The art influences seem all over the place and jump from character to character. No idea what to make of leather bustier with boob caps, skirt, some lace wedding dress elements and a plumed hat. Except for the small two headed eagle on the mismatched pauldrons, there's nothing (in the art) to indicate 40k at all.
I think that’s the look they were going for. I’m ready to drop some money on this myself.
I've been wanting to get into Ad Mech for a while - almost tempted by Forgebane, but was able to resist. But Admech AND Genestealer Cult is a no brainer purchase! More GC for my Cult, and some new Admech...
Voss wrote: What an oddly dated looking cover. The art style and font makes it look like something out of the 80s or maybe early 90s. Especially the dull red.
The art influences seem all over the place and jump from character to character. No idea what to make of leather bustier with boob caps, skirt, some lace wedding dress elements and a plumed hat. Except for the small two headed eagle on the mismatched pauldrons, there's nothing (in the art) to indicate 40k at all.
Can someone explain to me what Kill Teams is. Memory is fading and I can't remember. Is this the expansion of Shadow Wars Armageddon or is it something totally different?
Davor wrote: Can someone explain to me what Kill Teams is. Memory is fading and I can't remember. Is this the expansion of Shadow Wars Armageddon or is it something totally different?
If I recall, it used to have it's own rules in the BRB of a previous edition, for skirmish games. Then it was basically forgotten until 7th with that Ravenguard and Tau box, then was released in a psuedoform in SW:A with all that wonderful terrain. Now it's just getting a proper release with it's own line and unique rules.
Davor wrote: Can someone explain to me what Kill Teams is. Memory is fading and I can't remember. Is this the expansion of Shadow Wars Armageddon or is it something totally different?
Kill Team used to be a minor expansion for 40k (white dwarf exclusive at first, then there was a boxed set for 7e) that catered for extremely small scale (a single squad or so) games by altering the base rules and army comp. slightly but was just 40k. The new version out soon is the same squad-level combat as far as anyone knows, but is using its own rules, it’s own army lists, and (hypothetically) it’s own campaign system for linked games.
No-one has any actual details at this time though, apart from the fact that Rogue Traders are apparently one of the factions, and that there are d10 dice involved somehow.
Guys, skulls are clearly for organised military or religious outfits, not random ship crews. Replacing broken skull iconography requires a steady supply chain and logistics.
PS: Sooo eager to get that box. GW is killing my wallet. I hope it joins the paradise of Nurgle in the warp.
Davor wrote: Can someone explain to me what Kill Teams is. Memory is fading and I can't remember. Is this the expansion of Shadow Wars Armageddon or is it something totally different?
Kill Team used to be a minor expansion for 40k (white dwarf exclusive at first, then there was a boxed set for 7e) that catered for extremely small scale (a single squad or so) games by altering the base rules and army comp. slightly but was just 40k. The new version out soon is the same squad-level combat as far as anyone knows, but is using its own rules, it’s own army lists, and (hypothetically) it’s own campaign system for linked games.
No-one has any actual details at this time though, apart from the fact that Rogue Traders are apparently one of the factions, and that there are d10 dice involved somehow.
Ackshoolee, KT was originally a minigame designed around asymmetrical scenarios where one player took on the role of the titular Kill Team and the other controlled a much larger group of mook enemies who started out largely "dormant" until the KT player triggered an alarm or a sentry. They later appropriated the name for the fairly pish 40K "skirmish mode" rules. This new version seems different again, something more like the fan Inquisimunda system perhaps? But yeah as you say we don't really know any specifics.
Binabik15 wrote: Guys, skulls are clearly for organised military or religious outfits, not random ship crews. Replacing broken skull iconography requires a steady supply chain and logistics.
You joke, but I actually did a whole Dark Heresy campaign based on that concept - Ephyra, a world with a rigid cast system where roles are enforced by an implant that deadens all joy, hope, and dopamine responses unless someone is performing their assigned work essentially addicting them to it, the main export being servitors and servo-skulls, but as shipments of prisoners to use as source material declined and the Mechanicus refused to expand access to vat growth tech, many of the guilds began turning to "Flenser" gangs, lunatic outcast meat processing workers or unemployed guild workers driven insane by first being compelled by their implants to carry on their work and then by the horror of realisation as the implant allows them to feel again and they have to carve up unwilling victims abducted from low-hive communities.
I was quite proud of that one, at one stage I very nearly managed to make one of my players puke
zamerion wrote: From faeit.
Confirmation that rogue trader is expansion of kill team
Spoiler:
Trying to learn what Kill Teams is I went to Faeit site and I don't see him anywhere say it's an expansion. So I am puzzled what Zamerion means confirmation of an expansion. If this is an expansion does this mean we need to buy something else? That is why I asked if it was Shadow Wars Armageddon. Since it's not, I am still puzzled. Is it something new or an expansion to something else?
Davor wrote: Trying to learn what Kill Teams is I went to Faeit site and I don't see him anywhere say it's an expansion. So I am puzzled what Zamerion means confirmation of an expansion. If this is an expansion does this mean we need to buy something else? That is why I asked if it was Shadow Wars Armageddon. Since it's not, I am still puzzled. Is it something new or an expansion to something else?
Still somewhat speculative because details haven't been forthcoming yet. The theory is that there's a "core system" for Kill Team that draws from the existing 40k armies and model ranges. Then there's Rogue Trader as an "expansion" that introduces new models and ranges; mainly the eponymous "Rogue Trader" group. Likely they would later be added to 40k in an Agents of the Imperium-style, but since that Codex is no where on the horizon it seems proper to call it a "Kill Team" expansion.
More confirmation (or denial) coming as the release draws closer.
It still is bizarre to me that we somehow know more about the expansion to Kill Team that is coming out next quarter than the actual game which is coming out in three or four weeks. Either way, I'm looking forward to both!
From the cover of what is presumably Kill team with the quote from the genestealer revolutionary, doesn't look like those new models are going to be part of the Kill Team release but as an add on to the army coinciding with it.
Last few boxes have had all the new models in the artwork, but these just look like the two basic sets to me.Unless they've trimmed off the two leaders who would otherwise be framing the picture - though that seems unlikely to me.
Sabotage! wrote: It still is bizarre to me that we somehow know more about the expansion to Kill Team that is coming out next quarter than the actual game which is coming out in three or four weeks. Either way, I'm looking forward to both!
Really? How are you seeing that? We've had a video showing different kill zones, rules and new terrain. The RT video showed new models and the board
Rogue trader has been confirmed to be a KT expansion a while back, by GW itself I believe.
In any case, the new art is GSC vs. Skitarii. The video heavily featured these two factions (or more precisely the basic infantry kit of each one of them), so a box with GSC neophyte + Skitarii rangers + some new terrain seems like a likely starter box, more than ever.
I sure hope they'll release the rulebook by itself. Given that Shadespire, Necromunda, and Bloodbowl still don't have separate rulebooks, there's a risk we'll have to buy the box. But it might not be a specialist game (didn't see any info on that), and might be seen as a good way to have people start playing with a minimal investment (as a single infantry kit will probably be enough to start), so there's hope.
Sabotage! wrote: It still is bizarre to me that we somehow know more about the expansion to Kill Team that is coming out next quarter than the actual game which is coming out in three or four weeks. Either way, I'm looking forward to both!
Really? How are you seeing that? We've had a video showing different kill zones, rules and new terrain. The RT video showed new models and the board
The content of the RT box is know. It's all you see in the video.
The content of the KT box is however still a mystery. And we have no idea if a rulebook or terrain will be available separately.
He mean we still didn't know what is actually in the Kill team box. There are no new models in the trailer, and then there're expansion with new model, and then more new models.
fresus wrote: I sure hope they'll release the rulebook by itself. Given that Shadespire, Necromunda, and Bloodbowl still don't have separate rulebooks, there's a risk we'll have to buy the box.
The Shadespire rules are a free PDF download from Games Workshop on the Warhammer Underworlds website:
I have a hazy memory that a couple of months ago from a White Dwarf letters page. Someone wrote a letter reminiscing about Inquisitor style games and asking if we'll ever see anything like it again which was replied with a "maybe one day, who knows?". From what it we're seeing of Kill Team: Rogue Trader, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a future Inquismunda book.
40K 8th Edition for mass battles --》Kill Team for skirmish --》Rogue Trader for detailed narrative scenarios?
Davor wrote: Can someone explain to me what Kill Teams is. Memory is fading and I can't remember. Is this the expansion of Shadow Wars Armageddon or is it something totally different?
Kill Team used to be a minor expansion for 40k (white dwarf exclusive at first, then there was a boxed set for 7e) that catered for extremely small scale (a single squad or so) games by altering the base rules and army comp. slightly but was just 40k. The new version out soon is the same squad-level combat as far as anyone knows, but is using its own rules, it’s own army lists, and (hypothetically) it’s own campaign system for linked games.
No-one has any actual details at this time though, apart from the fact that Rogue Traders are apparently one of the factions, and that there are d10 dice involved somehow.
Ackshoolee, KT was originally a minigame designed around asymmetrical scenarios where one player took on the role of the titular Kill Team and the other controlled a much larger group of mook enemies who started out largely "dormant" until the KT player triggered an alarm or a sentry. They later appropriated the name for the fairly pish 40K "skirmish mode" rules. This new version seems different again, something more like the fan Inquisimunda system perhaps? But yeah as you say we don't really know any specifics.
Binabik15 wrote: Guys, skulls are clearly for organised military or religious outfits, not random ship crews. Replacing broken skull iconography requires a steady supply chain and logistics.
You joke, but I actually did a whole Dark Heresy campaign based on that concept - Ephyra, a world with a rigid cast system where roles are enforced by an implant that deadens all joy, hope, and dopamine responses unless someone is performing their assigned work essentially addicting them to it, the main export being servitors and servo-skulls, but as shipments of prisoners to use as source material declined and the Mechanicus refused to expand access to vat growth tech, many of the guilds began turning to "Flenser" gangs, lunatic outcast meat processing workers or unemployed guild workers driven insane by first being compelled by their implants to carry on their work and then by the horror of realisation as the implant allows them to feel again and they have to carve up unwilling victims abducted from low-hive communities.
I was quite proud of that one, at one stage I very nearly managed to make one of my players puke
Sounds like half the neurosurgeons I've assisted so far
fresus wrote: I sure hope they'll release the rulebook by itself. Given that Shadespire, Necromunda, and Bloodbowl still don't have separate rulebooks, there's a risk we'll have to buy the box.
The Shadespire rules are a free PDF download from Games Workshop on the Warhammer Underworlds website:
Insane Ivan wrote: The Skitarii counterpart pic to yesterday’s genestealer hybrids, from FB.
Anyone know which forgeworld that colour scheme is? I like it a lot.
Stygies VIII.
Black robes with red armor, and they sometimes ditch their robes to pretend they're Martians.
If this box contains Stygies decals, I'm buying three. At least.
Or begging/buying decals off people.
Thanks! I’m really curious to know what the box will contain exactly. One box worth of Skitarii and one box of Genestealer Neophytes seems a given, but apart from that... I assume we’ll know later this week, with the daily teasers.
Insane Ivan wrote: The Skitarii counterpart pic to yesterday’s genestealer hybrids, from FB.
Anyone know which forgeworld that colour scheme is? I like it a lot.
Stygies VIII.
Black robes with red armor, and they sometimes ditch their robes to pretend they're Martians.
If this box contains Stygies decals, I'm buying three. At least.
Or begging/buying decals off people.
Thanks! I’m really curious to know what the box will contain exactly. One box worth of Skitarii and one box of Genestealer Neophytes seems a given, but apart from that... I assume we’ll know later this week, with the daily teasers.
It will depend on the size of the box and how they organize the rules I'd say.
I'm going to hazard a guess and say the following contents:
1 HQ for each side(both new)
1 box of 'basic' infantry(Skitarii and Neophytes in this case)
1 box of 'elite' infantry(Sicarians and Aberrants)
With 3 new kits and 3 old, it balances out what you'd get for people splitting sets.
BrookM wrote: I think it'll be the bare basics, a squad of each, plus the new terrain and a mat to play on.
See, I was thinking that too--but then I remembered that they don't really have an 'entry' game like AOS does. AOS has Skirmish and Path to Glory both.
Kill Team could be 40k's answer to those, depending on whether or not an HQ is required.
Isn't that what the Imperium does to it's citizens? I thought it was humorous. How could it be taken any other way? Legit question so I know not to try it and be funny and offend anyone.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So the Kill Team game is not released. Now to think of it, wasn't there a Kill Team box set? Or was that for 7th edition and when 8th edition came out people stopped playing it and GW stopped supporting it?
BrookM wrote: I think it'll be the bare basics, a squad of each, plus the new terrain and a mat to play on.
See, I was thinking that too--but then I remembered that they don't really have an 'entry' game like AOS does. AOS has Skirmish and Path to Glory both.
Kill Team could be 40k's answer to those, depending on whether or not an HQ is required.
IIRC they said that the rules would be different from regular 8th edition, unlike Skirmish, which is the same, but with one or two extra rules tacked on top?
BrookM wrote: I think it'll be the bare basics, a squad of each, plus the new terrain and a mat to play on.
See, I was thinking that too--but then I remembered that they don't really have an 'entry' game like AOS does. AOS has Skirmish and Path to Glory both.
Kill Team could be 40k's answer to those, depending on whether or not an HQ is required.
IIRC they said that the rules would be different from regular 8th edition, unlike Skirmish, which is the same, but with one or two extra rules tacked on top?
Both of them are the same with a few differences, mainly dealing with organizing the army.
Path to Glory, your army at the start is restricted to a list of Heroes that give you a certain number of units as part of your force. To give an example of my Idoneth, the Akhelian King grants you 3 rolls/picks from the start while the Tidecaster and Soulscryer give you 4. You then have access to basically the entirety of the army list broken up into "Followers", "Elite Followers", "Hero Followers", and "Monster Followers". Units act as normal, but you can never take higher than the starting size or the size listed on the table(except when it's something like the Poxwalkers where they can add models as part of the game itself).
Skirmish everyone acts as an individual, morale tests are taken as a bit for the army as a whole, and you have weird caps on saves, Wounds, etc(notably that the units just won't be listed for it rather than Kill Team giving you the formula).
I always felt like it was a bit strange with regards to Kill Team that stuff that we commonly had floated as part of them(Terminators most notably...) couldn't be added while things like Thunderwolf Cavalry could be. Them going to a "Path to Glory" styled system, where you have options of HQs and then get units via a table roll/pick would open things up a bit more and make it so people can try out units that Kill Team normally doesn't allow for.
That said, this is all wild speculation on my part with regards to the contents. Just a bit of a gut feeling that we might see Kill Team become the "Path to Glory" of 40k and something else added later on as a Skirmish-y deal.
Looks like a pretty big chunk of terrain. And indeed, just two basic teams, no "special" models - I guess Clint Genestealer and his Aberrant buddies are for the Genestealer Codex after all.
Terrain's gorgeous and all but I'm so less than impressed by Kill Team in years past. If this were Path to Glory styled rather than Skirmish? Hell yeah, I'd be in right off the bat.
Apart from all the other marvellous info in that post, I note this:
This is just the beginning for Kill Team. This is a fully fledged Warhammer system that we’ll be supporting for years to come with rules, models, expansions and more – not to mention organised play, store tourneys and independent events. You can get started with Kill Team in confidence that we’ll be providing continuing support for your hobby.
We already know about Rogue Trader, very curious to see what else they'll come up with.
Terrain's gorgeous and all but I'm so less than impressed by Kill Team in years past. If this were Path to Glory styled rather than Skirmish? Hell yeah, I'd be in right off the bat.
Just curious, do you not like skirmish in general or just previous kill team games?
Well, I will probably get the Starter Set. More Skitarii! Sad no new models. I was hoping for a new Skitarii HQ. Oh well. The new terrain looks amazing. I need more buildings anyway (though my terrain is Ad Mech oriented, so I don't know if the new stuff will fit).
Good news for those who think that there are too many Space Marine factions: apart from Death Watch (who fit better in kill team than in Regular 40K, IMHO) and Grey Knights, all Space Marine chapters appear to be covered by "Adeptus Astartes". While on the Chaos side, there's Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons.
Notably absent from the list of factions are Daemons, Custodes, Inquisition, and Sisters of Battle. The first two make sense to me as they don't really fit thematically, but I'm guessing the other two will be waiting for an new release of their own (like the Rogue Trader team).
"And in case you play small, skirmish-focused factions with limited model support like Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence or even Underhive Gangers, have no fear, we at GW have decided that you can all feth RIGHT OFF! That's right, no rules support for you at all.
the_scotsman wrote: "And in case you play small, skirmish-focused factions with limited model support like Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence or even Underhive Gangers, have no fear, we at GW have decided that you can all feth RIGHT OFF! That's right, no rules support for you at all."
This is a 40K Skirmish game, not Necromunda. Why would gangs be involved?
Insane Ivan wrote: Good news for those who think that there are too many Space Marine factions: apart from Death Watch (who fit better in kill team than in Regular 40K, IMHO) and Grey Knights, all Space Marine chapters appear to be covered by "Adeptus Astartes". While on the Chaos side, there's Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons.
Notably absent from the list of factions are Daemons, Custodes, Inquisition, and Sisters of Battle. The first two make sense to me as they don't really fit thematically, but I'm guessing the other two will be waiting for an new release of their own (like the Rogue Trader team).
If it's anything like AoS Skirmish's most recent booklet, they've left out things because of strange metrics like material on the models(Wood Elves, for example, are limited to a single Hero for Skirmish--the only one available in plastic), points of the models(the Lord-Aquilor on Gryph Charger for the Stormcast Eternals seemingly got left out for this reason), and statlines of the model(certain saves/wound values were left out understandably).
When I watched the video I thought. "Did you see what's in the box? I didn't see what's in the box!" Then I looked at the Facebook post. Holy Terra that's a lot of support. Faction teams right out the gate! Orks with as yet unorkified vehicle terrain thingys! Re boxed terrain! New terrain! Stand alone rule book!?! Feth I need to win the lottery.....
the_scotsman wrote: "And in case you play small, skirmish-focused factions with limited model support like Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence or even Underhive Gangers, have no fear, we at GW have decided that you can all feth RIGHT OFF! That's right, no rules support for you at all."
This is a 40K Skirmish game, not Necromunda. Why would gangs be involved?
What is the first expansion kit we know to be coming for kill team?
is it something purely focused on the militaries involved in full scale 40k?
Or is it an unrelated skirmish set between a rogue trader crew and a minor xenos race?
the_scotsman wrote: "And in case you play small, skirmish-focused factions with limited model support like Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence or even Underhive Gangers, have no fear, we at GW have decided that you can all feth RIGHT OFF! That's right, no rules support for you at all."
This is a 40K Skirmish game, not Necromunda. Why would gangs be involved?
And as I have pointed out in the past for your underhive gang one of the AM factions should suffice PLUS rogue traders! This is way more evolved than how Necromunda dropped.
the_scotsman wrote: What is the first expansion kit we know to be coming for kill team?
Nothing involving gangs, that's for sure.
And that's because we already have a gang-skirmish game. It's called Necromunda.
the_scotsman wrote: is it something purely focused on the militaries involved in full scale 40k?
Or is it an unrelated skirmish set between a rogue trader crew and a minor xenos race?
It appears to take place inside a ship, and again, has nothing to do with gangs, because we already have that game.
Looks like KT rogue trader would have the minis and unique terrain of the ship as a faction and terrain rules as per the description of the basic unit box sets.
the_scotsman wrote: What is the first expansion kit we know to be coming for kill team?
Nothing involving gangs, that's for sure.
And that's because we already have a gang-skirmish game. It's called Necromunda.
the_scotsman wrote: is it something purely focused on the militaries involved in full scale 40k?
Or is it an unrelated skirmish set between a rogue trader crew and a minor xenos race?
It appears to take place inside a ship, and again, has nothing to do with gangs, because we already have that game.
This is a 40k skirmish game, why would it involve rogue traders?
All I'm asking is, if GW is going to cannibalize the playerbase for 40k related skirmish games AGAIN before giving full support to yet another game, they could at least provide a little backwards-compatibility between the systems.
I buy the shadow war set, build the terrain, scrounge together a playerbase, start playing a little campaign, and bam, GW releases Necromunda, everyone wants to get into that. Ok, I buy that box set, scrounge together a playerbase, start playing a little campaign, and bam, here's this crap, now everyone who was waiting around for one gang or another to release for Nec is just going to play this.
The squads with the terrain inside though? They're going to be expensive.
Honestly the only thing I don't like is the table size. The mats seem very small.
The size is one of my favourite things about it. I will be able to play it on the coffee table in my tiny Japanese house.
.
This whole release looks very promising. It will be interesting to see if Dave 'shadespire' Sanders can strike gold twice. Also what a massive release. 14 products at launch is as much as they released for aos2 or 8th edition at launch.
Just noticed that the Ork and Reiver boxes both have terrain included specifically themed for the Sector Mechanicus Killzone, and both their models are actually on the Killzone box art. Seems then that if we'll have more faction starters, they'll each have terrain for a specific killzone? Catachans with jungle terrain?
Disagree on table sizes though, I suspect they are aiming for small fast paced games. If I can get a game done in an hour, I'll have a set at work.
I'd suspect something $40 for these things. $40 on the high side, maybe $35 or $30 on the low side.
Hopefully, but I think that might be too low.
$40 would be £25 for us in GB, so £20 from my FLGS - I'd be very happy with that.
Cast in coloured plastic suggests that it's a special sprue just for this box--and given that Burna Boyz are already cheap as heck to start with, I'm feeling pretty good about that price point.
The whole paragraph about ongoing support still just reads to me like an invitation to spend 200$ on a suit rental, hotel and plane ticket to go to your trashy cousin's third wedding.
"The theme for our wedding is FOREVER! Come join us on this once in a lifetime day!!!"
"we won't drop this game like an unwanted stepchild in two months, honest!"
Insane Ivan wrote: Just noticed that the Ork and Reiver boxes both have terrain included specifically themed for the Sector Mechanicus Killzone, and both their models are actually on the Killzone box art. Seems then that if we'll have more faction starters, they'll each have terrain for a specific killzone? Catachans with jungle terrain?
It'll be true catachan terrain. All the plants, barricades, and animals are just Sly Marbo wearing different costumes.
Hmm. Will have to wait and see how it turns out, but at first blush nothing makes me want to jump up & down in joy. A lot of folk evidently consider Shadespire "gold", but it really was not my kind of game and while this seems to have a wider scope for individualisation than it did, those wee three-tier "pick one or the other" upgrade paths are a far cry from the detail of Mordheim or Necromunda. I suppose that's the point though - it's not a bad game per se, just not the one I was hoping for.
Ah well, the new terrain is stunning, there's still the models from Rogue Trader and future potential expansions to look forward to, and maybe the unit & equipment selection will be wide enough that I can counts-as one or two of my INQ28 bands until the new Inquisimunda takes shape.
One thing that does worry me a bit, is what's mentioned here under point 4:
12 Orks tactics Cards, including 6 new Tactics unique to this set.
That both implies that we'll have separate Tactics decks for each faction available separately, but also that there'll be Tactics that can only be found in the Starter boxes. Not enough to put me off this (I still like the look of nearly all of this), but that would be a shame if you already had enought models for a Kill Team, but then still needed to buy a full starter box to get all of the Tactics Cards.
Of course all depends on pricing and on that, apart from the "cheaper than buying all components separately!", we have no word whatsoever. Do we?
I was very excited about this .. until I read, "has been designed from the ground up as a brand new gaming experience. "
What I loved about SWA was the solid, proven rules set that I know how to use.. Sounds like someone in the design studio
decided to "hold my beer" moment and now we are going to get something no body wants..
Will I get the rules...yes.. but something I also noticed is all the additional rules that comes with "expansion sets"
So someone that buys the starter set and the kill zone terrain set, that means they are getting access to new rules (tactic cards etc) that
someone not buying it because they already own that stuff will not. Sounds like GW is going down the MTG route of more you buy,
the better odds of winning.
Now if the rules are in the core rule book and all the starter set is doing is giving them separate printed version.. I am okay with that
It mostly looks good, but lack of Inquisition is a real bummer. It also seems that you can't mix and match factions. I'm waiting to see whether there is at least some creativity allowed in the weapon selection.
Eldarain wrote: This all sounds very cool but I wont be participating in the "gotta catch em all" aspects.
Good thing you don't really have to?
Kill Team Starter Sets are the perfect way to get stuck in with a new kill team, each featuring specially selected models, new rules, custom tokens and terrain to bolster your collection, all at a lower price than picking up the contents separately. Each can be used as a pre-made kill team in its own right, or as a starting point for one of your own making, featuring unique faction tactics cards you won’t find anywhere else. Let’s take a look inside the Krogskull’s Boyz set.
Spoiler:
So you have 12 Ork Faction Tactics in the set, 6 of which are new.
This doesn't look to be Shadespire where you have generic cards bundled into the faction boxes. The closest thing I can see to that idea is the "environment cards", but depending on the price of the sets it's possible it's cheaper to buy them than the actual terrain solo.
streetsamurai wrote: Looks alright, but im a bit worried that it will take some wind out of necromunda
that might not be a bad thing, allow the people who want a balanced fair fight every game to move over to something that supports that, and leave necromunda for those who are cool with a gang that's well behind in the power stakes due to bad rolls and previous gangmember deaths?
Looks awesome, can't wait. In for the base and Ork boxes.for sure
If there is a tactic that you want to use, there will be lists of all of them online, the cards are similar to the warscroll cards they make for reference
It's not like a card game where you need to shuffle and randomly draw them.
the_scotsman wrote: "And in case you play small, skirmish-focused factions with limited model support like Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence or even Underhive Gangers, have no fear, we at GW have decided that you can all feth RIGHT OFF! That's right, no rules support for you at all.
Also Custodes. Because screw those banana boiz."
You should read the FAQ, they are surprisingly honest about exactly this.
And yeah, tactics are like stratagems. They will be online minutes after the boxes are on sale.
Insane Ivan wrote: Good news for those who think that there are too many Space Marine factions: apart from Death Watch (who fit better in kill team than in Regular 40K, IMHO) and Grey Knights, all Space Marine chapters appear to be covered by "Adeptus Astartes". While on the Chaos side, there's Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons.
Notably absent from the list of factions are Daemons, Custodes, Inquisition, and Sisters of Battle. The first two make sense to me as they don't really fit thematically, but I'm guessing the other two will be waiting for an new release of their own (like the Rogue Trader team).
Assassins too.
I can see all of those appearing at some point, except Daemons for the thematic reasons you mention (maybe they are included as limited options for Heretic Astartes?). Custodes do actually do espionage, although maybe they would want to release a bodysuit stealth kit for them. The biggest reason Custodes and Assassins seem to be left out would be balance in my opinion- they would beed a more carefully crafted ruleset to account for their elite models.
Inquisition and Sisters seem to be waiting for new models.
tokugawa wrote: Can't wait to see some new Shadespire-ish 40K etb plastic models!
Hopefully there is none. Etb is one of the worst thing to have happened in this hobby, and they would also make no sense in a game where customisation is involved.
No word on an Inquistion codex and now no faction for Kill Team. Think they've been squatted? *ahem* 'indexed'?
This has been my assumption for a while now, and the lack of mention of them for Killteam, the game they would be absolutely perfect for, just reinforces my position. Yes, no plastic kit support is likely the main reason as to why, but it's just a further spin through the ringer.
No word on an Inquistion codex and now no faction for Kill Team. Think they've been squatted? *ahem* 'indexed'?
This has been my assumption for a while now, and the lack of mention of them for Killteam, the game they would be absolutely perfect for, just reinforces my position. Yes, no plastic kit support is likely the main reason as to why, but it's just a further spin through the ringer.
Yeah, and Waywatchers are perfect for AoS Skirmish yet not listed for it.
They answered this question on the Facebook. They chose armies that have access to plastic kits currently.
tokugawa wrote: Can't wait to see some new Shadespire-ish 40K etb plastic models!
Hopefully there is none. Etb is one of the worst thing to have happened in this hobby, and they would also make no sense in a game where customisation is involved.
This is so incredibly wrong. The EtB kits have been fantastic, well-priced, and easy to work with. They're as easy as anything else to modify in plastic, and they allow for new people to get models on the table quicker and cheaper. Some EtB special characters or veteran guys would be a great model sub-line for Kill Team.
Aaaand I'm out. Necromunda and Shadespire were bad enough but this level of nickel and diming I will not swallow. I have zero desire to rebuy huge boxes of old models just to collect all the game rules.
lord_blackfang wrote: Aaaand I'm out. Necromunda and Shadespire were bad enough but this level of nickel and diming I will not swallow. I have zero desire to rebuy huge boxes of old models just to collect all the game rules.
Convenient discount bundles of models and terrain you'll need to start playing a new game format = nickle and diming?
lord_blackfang wrote: Aaaand I'm out. Necromunda and Shadespire were bad enough but this level of nickel and diming I will not swallow. I have zero desire to rebuy huge boxes of old models just to collect all the game rules.
Convenient discount bundles of models and terrain you'll need to start playing a new game format = nickle and diming?
Convenient discount bundles of models and terrain loads of folk already own multiples of, which you have to buy to get all the rules to play a new game format probably qualifies aye, if you can't just buy the rules content on its own at a fair price. People can say "oh it's just more options, you don't need them", but that's a fair old crock and everybody knows it.
lord_blackfang wrote: Aaaand I'm out. Necromunda and Shadespire were bad enough but this level of nickel and diming I will not swallow. I have zero desire to rebuy huge boxes of old models just to collect all the game rules.
Convenient discount bundles of models and terrain you'll need to start playing a new game format = nickle and diming?
Convenient discount bundles of models and terrain loads of folk already own multiples of, which you have to buy to get all the rules to play a new game format probably qualifies aye, if you can't just buy the rules content on its own at a fair price. People can say "oh it's just more options, you don't need them", but that's a fair old crock and everybody knows it.
And if you don't happen to own the models in question and this turns out cheaper than buying them separately?
I have yet to make my big mistake for the month, so I'm going to say I'm cautiously optimistic. It's not like my GW gaming could possibly get any worse, but maybe, just maybe we'll get some decent rules out of this one.
Maybe GW even lets me buy Necron dice. Wouldn't that be something?
No word on an Inquistion codex and now no faction for Kill Team. Think they've been squatted? *ahem* 'indexed'?
This has been my assumption for a while now, and the lack of mention of them for Killteam, the game they would be absolutely perfect for, just reinforces my position. Yes, no plastic kit support is likely the main reason as to why, but it's just a further spin through the ringer.
Yeah, and Waywatchers are perfect for AoS Skirmish yet not listed for it.
They answered this question on the Facebook. They chose armies that have access to plastic kits currently.
They did? I hope that goes just for "armies", not units within those armies. I want Fayled Ones.
tokugawa wrote: Can't wait to see some new Shadespire-ish 40K etb plastic models!
Hopefully there is none. Etb is one of the worst thing to have happened in this hobby, and they would also make no sense in a game where customisation is involved.
This is so incredibly wrong. The EtB kits have been fantastic, well-priced, and easy to work with. They're as easy as anything else to modify in plastic, and they allow for new people to get models on the table quicker and cheaper. Some EtB special characters or veteran guys would be a great model sub-line for Kill Team.
An easy to build kit will never, ever be as easy and convenient to customize as a multi-part kit. Therefore when it comes to customization, no, nothing about that statement is incredibly wrong.
Easy to build kits have merits, but let's not pretend they're the be all, end all.
lord_blackfang wrote: Aaaand I'm out. Necromunda and Shadespire were bad enough but this level of nickel and diming I will not swallow. I have zero desire to rebuy huge boxes of old models just to collect all the game rules.
What are you talking about? If you already have minis and terrain the only thing you need is the rule book which will be available on its own. Everything else is just bundles and optional extras.
lord_blackfang wrote: Aaaand I'm out. Necromunda and Shadespire were bad enough but this level of nickel and diming I will not swallow. I have zero desire to rebuy huge boxes of old models just to collect all the game rules.
What are you talking about? If you already have minis and terrain the only thing you need is the rule book which will be available on its own. Everything else is just bundles and optional xtras.
The bundles also includes some rules that are only available in them.
They lost me at "Shadespire team". I don't find anything especially appealing about a deck-building game that uses minis as expensive tokens. This isn't looking like the game I have been waiting for at all.
The playing space is too small.
Models and factions being excluded for not being in plastic is silly.
More "Do X again/+1 to Y so-called stratagems."
Shallow, one-dimensional "skills."
Terrain/rule terrain/model boxes that are likely to be a lousy deal for what you get.
Implementing AA is great, though. But not enough to get me playing.
the_scotsman wrote: "And in case you play small, skirmish-focused factions with limited model support like Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence or even Underhive Gangers, have no fear, we at GW have decided that you can all feth RIGHT OFF! That's right, no rules support for you at all.
Also Custodes. Because screw those banana boiz."
Insane Ivan wrote: Notably absent from the list of factions are Daemons, Custodes, Inquisition, and Sisters of Battle. The first two make sense to me as they don't really fit thematically, but I'm guessing the other two will be waiting for an new release of their own (like the Rogue Trader team).
Haighus wrote:Inquisition and Sisters seem to be waiting for new models.
Per the FAQ, seems they limited the selection to armies with customizable plastics - except eldar, because nobody would accept eldar getting cut - but they're cool with you running sisters as space marines units or some other equivalent as long as it looks the part.
streetsamurai wrote: Looks alright, but im a bit worried that it will take some wind out of necromunda
That only matters if you care about Necromunda.
I am very happy to se a core book separate from the box and I guess each starter box will have it's own "codex". Weird how it says every rule is in the book, but that the starting boxes are essential I'm not as optimistic about the starter boxes though. I can see them costing Start Collecting box prices rather than Shadespire boxes. Hope to be very wrong on that though. Seems this is GW's answer to Infinity.
Per the FAQ, seems they limited the selection to armies with customizable plastics - except eldar, because nobody would accept eldar getting cut - but they're cool with you running sisters as space marines units or some other equivalent as long as it looks the part.
In every other iteration of Kill Team, Guardians have been an option for a Kill Team. The only mention, specifically for Eldar, has been of Rangers--as they're a unit that "you shouldn't be without" for Kill Team.
The specific reply that I saw today was in response to someone asking about Sisters and Inquisition as an army, and the response can be paraphrased as "Not right now, since there's no customizable plastics".
lord_blackfang wrote: Aaaand I'm out. Necromunda and Shadespire were bad enough but this level of nickel and diming I will not swallow. I have zero desire to rebuy huge boxes of old models just to collect all the game rules.
lord_blackfang wrote: Aaaand I'm out. Necromunda and Shadespire were bad enough but this level of nickel and diming I will not swallow. I have zero desire to rebuy huge boxes of old models just to collect all the game rules.
Why not just buy the sold separatly rulebook?
I'd assume he's grousing over the fact that the starter sets look to include a scenery card and 6 cards that are unique to the box.
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streetsamurai wrote: I must say that no new minis being included in the box (bar the terrain) make this a lot less exciting.
Welcome to Kill Team? No need for an HQ means no need for the one thing that really would have made things interesting for anyone who didn't already own an army.
Not to belabor the point but that's why I would have rathered a "Path to Glory" style system.
No word on an Inquistion codex and now no faction for Kill Team. Think they've been squatted? *ahem* 'indexed'?
This has been my assumption for a while now, and the lack of mention of them for Killteam, the game they would be absolutely perfect for, just reinforces my position. Yes, no plastic kit support is likely the main reason as to why, but it's just a further spin through the ringer.
Forget about Greyfax already? Honestly I’m expecting them to either get a big release in 2019, or a specific Kill Team starter for any new models. GW hasn’t forgotten abou Inquisition; it’s just not their time yet. Especially if they’re going to get a few new plastic kits.
As someone who does not currently have a 40k army but has been looking at getting back into the game, this sounds nice.
Now, just to pick out my faction of choice...or two, three...
Blastaar wrote: They lost me at "Shadespire team". I don't find anything especially appealing about a deck-building game that uses minis as expensive tokens. This isn't looking like the game I have been waiting for at all.
The playing space is too small.
Models and factions being excluded for not being in plastic is silly.
More "Do X again/+1 to Y so-called stratagems."
Shallow, one-dimensional "skills."
Terrain/rule terrain/model boxes that are likely to be a lousy deal for what you get.
Implementing AA is great, though. But not enough to get me playing.
All that from a small site with limited sketchy information, you must be able to read a menu and predict how something tastes, it's temperature and where the ingredients are sourced.
Stus67 wrote: I think it looks pretty nifty. I wonder how well the gameplay and scenarios would handle being scaled up to a 4x4 table.
Also you know it's dakkadakka when people are crapping out mountains of salt about box sets when the rules are sold separately.
Nobody complained about that.
You know its dakka when in every thread, somebody is building a strawman or get confused by a 3 lines posts
White knights gonna white knight.
The preview page is clear enough that every boxed set contains unique rules. Want to play sector mechanicus and already have a huge board of it? Too bad, buy another 50+ quid box of it if you want the rules, and we'll even throw in this "whatever fits in a start collecting box footprint" sized mat that makes any third party mats you might have invalid.
Want ork tactics? Buy this 11 year old plastic kit. Etc.
Not sure it's been mentioned, will we be able to mix factions?
A space marine and auxiliary staff stranded in a hostile city, cultists led by a deathguard marine, dark eldar and regular eldar as corsairs, faux inquisition groups made of guard, scions and other units?
Sinful Hero wrote: Forget about Greyfax already? Honestly I’m expecting them to either get a big release in 2019, or a specific Kill Team starter for any new models. GW hasn’t forgotten abou Inquisition; it’s just not their time yet. Especially if they’re going to get a few new plastic kits.
The game doesn't seem to have HQs, so no need for her in this game*. Also, if the Inquisition was to get a dedicated troop it could come out in this game, but... Rogue Trader seems to imply that Kill Team could be the game where Inquisimunda happens--for reals. That Rogue Trader faction is just an assortment of characters with some meat shields. Replace the rogue trader with Greyfax and Ta-da!
Stus67 wrote: I think it looks pretty nifty. I wonder how well the gameplay and scenarios would handle being scaled up to a 4x4 table.
Also you know it's dakkadakka when people are crapping out mountains of salt about box sets when the rules are sold separately.
Nobody complained about that.
You know its dakka when in every thread, somebody is building a strawman or get confused by a 3 lines posts
White knights gonna white knight.
The preview page is clear enough that every boxed set contains unique rules. Want to play sector mechanicus and alrwady have a huge board of it? Too bad, buy another 50+ quid box of it if you want the rules, and we'll even throw in this "whatever fits in a start collecting box footprint" sized mat that makes any third party mats you might have invalid.
Changing the board size is the world's easiest, most minimal house rule, and you could just as easily mark an outline on your existing mat with terrain/objects etc. for the Killteam board. It doesn't invalidate anything!
As mentioned, I think getting hold of the unique rules in the boxsets is going to be trivial with an internet connection, although that is a legitimate if somewhat minor gripe. The board size issue is nothing though.
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ritualnet wrote: Not sure it's been mentioned, will we be able to mix factions?
A space marine and auxiliary staff stranded in a hostile city, cultists led by a deathguard marine, dark eldar and regular eldar as corsairs, faux inquisition groups made of guard, scions and other units?
I think we will have to wait and see. The boxsets are explicitly stated as being the initial release in a long line of things, so more complex stuff is likely to be added I think.
Stus67 wrote: I think it looks pretty nifty. I wonder how well the gameplay and scenarios would handle being scaled up to a 4x4 table.
Also you know it's dakkadakka when people are crapping out mountains of salt about box sets when the rules are sold separately.
Nobody complained about that.
You know its dakka when in every thread, somebody is building a strawman or get confused by a 3 lines posts
White knights gonna white knight.
The preview page is clear enough that every boxed set contains unique rules. Want to play sector mechanicus and alrwady have a huge board of it? Too bad, buy another 50+ quid box of it if you want the rules, and we'll even throw in this "whatever fits in a start collecting box footprint" sized mat that makes any third party mats you might have invalid.
They may be unique on release, but wouldn’t it also be likely they’ll release them in a compendium at a later date? Or available in a future App? I suppose that doesn’t help the faq somebody in your playgroup will have to buy it to get access to the rules, but there’s no reason to assume it won’t not be available at a later date.
And the mat manufacturer’s will be dropping new appropriately sized mats before too long, I’m sure. And nothings saying you can’t just mark out a 22”x30” section of a table or mat anyway. The mats aren’t required; just as an easy visual cue to see where the limits of the battlefield are.
What is this? No Space Marines in a starter set? Where is the outrage, or should I say where is the praise that Games Workshop is not including Space Marines for once now.
Blastaar wrote: They lost me at "Shadespire team". I don't find anything especially appealing about a deck-building game that uses minis as expensive tokens. This isn't looking like the game I have been waiting for at all.
The playing space is too small.
Models and factions being excluded for not being in plastic is silly.
More "Do X again/+1 to Y so-called stratagems."
Shallow, one-dimensional "skills."
Terrain/rule terrain/model boxes that are likely to be a lousy deal for what you get.
Implementing AA is great, though. But not enough to get me playing.
All that from a small site with limited sketchy information, you must be able to read a menu and predict how something tastes, it's temperature and where the ingredients are sourced.
If i had familiarity with their past offerings, perhaps. If I end up being mistaken, great. I've been wanting a good 40k skirmish game for a while now. However, based on what was said in this announcement as well as GW's track record, not limited to but definitely including 8th and AOS design, as well as GW's tendency to reuse rules, I think it's a safe bet that what we're getting is 8th-ish, with a few tweaks here and there to accommodate models acting independently and some sort of campaign/progression system.
Davor wrote: What is this? No Space Marines in a starter set? Where is the outrage, or should I say where is the praise that Games Workshop is not including Space Marines for once now.
Hip hip, hooray! I was happy enough to see GSC, much less no marines in a starter.
So in that it hurts. I love that this Kill Team isn't just a weaker version of 40k, so that I can play and enjoy this game without being limited by what 40k does or offers. I don't play 40k, but I've amassed a quite large and diverse selection of 40k models from various box sets over the years, and I'll finally have an excuse to use them for something other than painting.
Blastaar wrote: They lost me at "Shadespire team". I don't find anything especially appealing about a deck-building game that uses minis as expensive tokens. This isn't looking like the game I have been waiting for at all.
I disliked Shadespire greatly at the beginning, but after coming back a few months later, it turned out to be a really amazing game. The fact that this is by the Shadespire team is a selling point to me.
The playing space is too small.
Deadzone is played on a 2'x2' table with 5-10 models and it works out just fine. It really depends on the ranges of everything. If you can only walk 4" each move and shoot 8" away, a single realm of battle tile is plenty big enough (especially with lots of terrain).
Models and factions being excluded for not being in plastic is silly.
For now. Doing their little faction starter kits gives them an opportunity to do Shadespire-like warbands or Necromunda-like single sprue gangs. Rogue Trader's new, unique models already show that KT will be getting its own kits, and I'd be surprised if new faction releases going forward don't include KT in their design.
Terrain/rule terrain/model boxes that are likely to be a lousy deal for what you get.
I like what they are doing with the terrain. Packing the terrain with models and cards is smart because if you have a group of people all buying into KT, you'll end up with plenty of terrain very quickly and cheaply than if you had one guy having to buy all the terrain for a larger table. Everybody is chipping in to the quantity and variety of possible boards.
People are jumping to the conclusion that the Kill Zones and box sets are going to have rules unavailable anywhere else, not once considering that perhaps some of the rules will be available separately, or in the core rulebook.
And, honestly, worst case scenario is you have to wait a week for some dood to post the 'exclusive' rules up online in a pdf of questionable legality. This is the internet, after all. One way or another, people will be able to get everything they want.
Of course, you REALLY know it's Dakka when people are complaining as if they're being forced at gunpoint to pay for... anything. Everything?
I'm super excited for Kill Team. Gives me an excuse to pick up a box of guys and really lavish each miniature with attention. Conversions, special bits, extra time spent painting each one, picking out all the details... Then of course developing each model's story! And knowing that I might be able to take some of those models and use them in Wrath and Glory, the RPG coming out as well, to double up on the narrative fun!
I think it'll also give people that have less-than-spectacular-meta armies an excuse to keep playing their force. I've got a buddy that plays Necron that is super salty about Knights, and this will give him an excuse to get away from that scene while still sating his addiction to plastic crack.
drbored wrote: People are jumping to the conclusion that the Kill Zones and box sets are going to have rules unavailable anywhere else, not once considering that perhaps some of the rules will be available separately, or in the core rulebook.
This is outright delusional. Look at Necromunda and Shadespire. If you want all the rules, you need all the card packs and all the warbands. But at least it was all bundled with brand new minis. GW is now experimenting to see if we'll pay for cards bundled with old minis too.
Deadzone is played on a 2'x2' table with 5-10 models and it works out just fine. It really depends on the ranges of everything. If you can only walk 4" each move and shoot 8" away, a single realm of battle tile is plenty big enough (especially with lots of terrain).
Indeed, if the focus is going to be largely on regular (ie:slow) infantry who have to walk everywhere, the board size is about right for getting straight into the thick of it. Otherwise the first half of the game is wasted just getting your troops close enough to actually do anything.
This mostly looks pretty cool. Not a fan of the Fantasy Flight model for the individual unit boxes, but given that this is GW, it seems reasonably likely that they'll release a compilation of all of the box-specific rules sooner or later.
drbored wrote: People are jumping to the conclusion that the Kill Zones and box sets are going to have rules unavailable anywhere else, not once considering that perhaps some of the rules will be available separately, or in the core rulebook.
And, honestly, worst case scenario is you have to wait a week for some dood to post the 'exclusive' rules up online in a pdf of questionable legality. This is the internet, after all. One way or another, people will be able to get everything they want.
Of course, you REALLY know it's Dakka when people are complaining as if they're being forced at gunpoint to pay for... anything. Everything?
I'm super excited for Kill Team. Gives me an excuse to pick up a box of guys and really lavish each miniature with attention. Conversions, special bits, extra time spent painting each one, picking out all the details... Then of course developing each model's story! And knowing that I might be able to take some of those models and use them in Wrath and Glory, the RPG coming out as well, to double up on the narrative fun!
I think it'll also give people that have less-than-spectacular-meta armies an excuse to keep playing their force. I've got a buddy that plays Necron that is super salty about Knights, and this will give him an excuse to get away from that scene while still sating his addiction to plastic crack.
It is explicitly written that six of the ork cards are exclusive to the bundle. This is not jumping to conclusion. Its basic reading comprehension.
But anyway you are right to an extent. While im not a fan of these kind of manoeuvres, it is not a deal breaker, from from it (at least imo)
drbored wrote: People are jumping to the conclusion that the Kill Zones and box sets are going to have rules unavailable anywhere else, not once considering that perhaps some of the rules will be available separately, or in the core rulebook.
This is outright delusional. Look at Necromunda and Shadespire. If you want all the rules, you need all the card packs and all the warbands. But at least it was all bundled with brand new minis. GW is now experimenting to see if we'll pay for cards bundled with old minis too.
All of the Shadespire card rules are available online. So is the rule book. So you don't have to buy anything to get all the rules. Aside from buying a warband to get the rules for that warband. Which seems pretty fair.
The cards for kill team are totally different than shadespire/MTG. You don't need the cards. You don't shuffle/draw them. They are just a listing of rules. I'll prob just print a list anyways for ease of space on the table
streetsamurai wrote: It is explicitly written that six of the ork cards are exclusive to the bundle. This is not jumping to conclusion. Its basic reading comprehension.
Unless one of those cards is "Instantly Win the Game", I don't think it will be much of a problem. Faction decks will probably be available elsewhere (like Necromunda and Blood Bowl), along with neutral decks (possibly themed, like Blood Bowl, given that there is a Sector Mechanicus deck). Whether you select the tactics directly or draw them randomly, it uses AoS2.0's command point system (one CP per turn), so even having access to a lot of cards doesn't mean you'll be able to use all of them.
The environment cards from the starters seem to be a specific use for a generic piece of terrain (kind of like the Sacristan Forgeshrine) that simply adds variety without necessarily adding something I'd consider "required" for enjoyment. Similarly, the narrative missions included in the starters are for variety that I think most matched play players will ignore completely. So, it seems like these things include a lot of variety, not necessarily anything required for play or enjoyment.
Seriously, the cards and rules will be online within hours of release. Maybe even before. You could probably start playing this game without buying anything more than you already have.
I'm just glad that this is actually made with more than 3 factions in mind. Shadow War is fun, but the rules and scenarios only work well with the 3 factions from the rulebook.
drbored wrote: People are jumping to the conclusion that the Kill Zones and box sets are going to have rules unavailable anywhere else
Where could people possibly be getting that idea from?
'...plus Tactics cards for the Genestealer Cults and Skitarii, including options you won't find anywhere else'
'...including 6 new Tactics unique to this set'
drbored wrote: People are jumping to the conclusion that the Kill Zones and box sets are going to have rules unavailable anywhere else
Where could people possibly be getting that idea from?
'...plus Tactics cards for the Genestealer Cults and Skitarii, including options you won't find anywhere else'
'...including 6 new Tactics unique to this set'
I do wonder if they are for the specific kill teams though.
drbored wrote: People are jumping to the conclusion that the Kill Zones and box sets are going to have rules unavailable anywhere else
Where could people possibly be getting that idea from?
'...plus Tactics cards for the Genestealer Cults and Skitarii, including options you won't find anywhere else'
'...including 6 new Tactics unique to this set'
I do wonder if they are for the specific kill teams though.
Wouldn't be surprising if it were since the boxes come with a specific written out Kill Team too.
Going by what was shown in the old trailer there should be at least two other initial "Kill zone" expansions. An alien jungle/deathworld and what looks to be some kind of industrial zone with the armoured containers and servohaulers. I wonder if there will be a Tau Tidewall Kill zone? But joking aside this game could be a good way to release more non Imperial terrain and update units with new kits outside of the usual Codex cycle.
This looks a little too good... I’m worried that as a main design studio game with an insane amount of support (and brilliant rules. If Shadespire is anything to go by) this will crowd out Specialist Games with their smaller budget and slower release schedule for Necromunda. And Necromunda is infinitely more exciting to me than small scale 40k, no matter how cool it looks. I want SG to release a Necromunda rules compendium by New Years when all the gangs are out and do soft re-launch the game, but I can see it faltering if KT takes off. Not to mention that it’s likely to divide my gaming group between the two games.
Jesus people.
Necromunda was done by Forgeworld, sold by GW.
Shadespire was done by GW's new rules design team.
Kill-Team is designed by the same team as Shadespire.
It at the very least deserves a chance.
In my view Necromunda is unfortunately a missed opportunity in its current state due to not using 3D terrain. Like Kill Team now has. I'm sure they'll expand Necromunda to use The KT terrain but right now my bet is on Kill Team stealing all the glory.
X078 wrote: In my view Necromunda is unfortunately a missed opportunity in its current state due to not using 3D terrain. Like Kill Team now has. I'm sure they'll expand Necromunda to use The KT terrain but right now my bet is on Kill Team stealing all the glory.
Necromunda does use 3D terrain. It just also has a 2D (beginner) variant.
X078 wrote: In my view Necromunda is unfortunately a missed opportunity in its current state due to not using 3D terrain. Like Kill Team now has. I'm sure they'll expand Necromunda to use The KT terrain but right now my bet is on Kill Team stealing all the glory.
Necromunda gang war 1 has all the rules for 3D terrain, I personally use the tiles and 3D terrain across a campaign to signify different territory and locations. The thing is Necromunda has the gangs and cool setting going for it. Kill team is good for players with existing 40k models or people who just want to collect a small portion of models from multiple factions. But the thing is kill team.. like shadow war is probably not going to be as interesting because its gonna be lacking in character compared to Necromunda, IMO.
I'll definitely play killteam when sisters of battle get their plastics, provided the game is even played locally by that point in 2019...
If the Kill Team rules are well received I can imagine they might just update Necro17 to use those rules in a later edition. They are already practically the same as Shadow Wars (although obviously that's gone) and it would make sense to consolidate into one rule set for 40k narrative skirmish, with various expansions focusing on specific scenarios.
Mymearan wrote: This looks a little too good... I’m worried that as a main design studio game with an insane amount of support (and brilliant rules. If Shadespire is anything to go by) this will crowd out Specialist Games with their smaller budget and slower release schedule for Necromunda. And Necromunda is infinitely more exciting to me than small scale 40k, no matter how cool it looks. I want SG to release a Necromunda rules compendium by New Years when all the gangs are out and do soft re-launch the game, but I can see it faltering if KT takes off. Not to mention that it’s likely to divide my gaming group between the two games.
Though they are both skirmish games, Necromunda seems to be far more oriented around league games, where you grow a gang over multiple games and create interesting underdog scenarios and epic stories. Kill Team, however, has the three ways to play (open play, narrative play, and matched play), with only narrative play offering what appears to be a simplified leveling system. It doesn't seem to have the same league play built into the game. You don't seem to be getting Juvies and raising them up to be Champions, but instead sticking with the same set of models that get slightly better.
Frankly, this will probably INCREASE the number of Necromunda players as GW is basically shoving Sector Mechanicus terrain at KT players, and the terrain is by far the most expensive part. If you've already got a bunch of SM terrain, why not try out Necromunda while you are at it? Main problem is expensive starter set-only rules and the Forgeworld-only weapons and hired guns.
anyname121 wrote: Are there any sneaky pictures or info on price points? I love the terrain but can't afford to give many more organs.
The Sector Mechanicus terrain has been getting cheaper, with more bundled pieces. For instance, the Ferratonic Furnace ($50) has been replaced by the Ferratonic Incinerator ($60) which has additional struts and walkways. The Promethium Forge ($75) has been replaced by the Promethium Refinery ($110), which is basically two Promethium Forges put together.
Long story short, I expect the new bundles to be even better values, and I'd be surprised if the Sector Mechanicus expansion (which includes a Ferratonic Incinerator ($60), Thermic Plasma Conduits ($35), Alchomite Stack ($50), and a game board) is more than $100.
Gotta say, I'm actually looking forward to Kill Team. I'm already trying to decide what factions I want to start building: Tempestus Scions, some flavor of Astartes, Genestealer Cult...
Dandelion wrote: Necromunda does use 3D terrain. It just also has a 2D (beginner) variant.
2D Necromunda isn't a "beginner" version. It's just a different way of playing the game.
I meant that it was just an easy way for beginners to play. i.e. no need for tons of terrain
Oh god...someone has besmirched the honor of tiles around HBMC; all we have done is awoken a sleeping giant, and filled him with a terrible resolve.
On the actual news, I'm somewhat meh on the bundle approach; I like cheap terrain, but the ones previewed so far are the two 40k armies I have the least interest in. Hopefully that'll get better. At least the core box seems like a decent offer even if I ultimately pass on the team expansions.
I hope the box set is reasonably priced but it seems the go to for GW is $160 USD we will see if that sticks for Kill Team. The team add ons with terrain is interesting, as I can always use more terrain although I don't see them being at the $40 point. I would say hopefully $50 USD or $60 USD, hoping for $50 or less but doubtful.
Agree with the previous poster that sector mechanius will probably be $100 though that is a really bad stick point $80 would be good but probably too cheap given the amount of terrain so maybe $110 USD range.
Any idea when they are going to release? This has been an expensive year for me between Necromunda, AoS2, and now kill team. God save my soul and my wallet if they do an orks 40k release this year.
Any idea when they are going to release? This has been an expensive year for me between Necromunda, AoS2, and now kill team. God save my soul and my wallet if they do an orks 40k release this year.
So far it looks like what I was hoping for, except for the lack of Inquisition. I'm pretty bummed since I started working on a team specifically for the game. Hopefully the amount of customization available to IG will allow me to run most of my models with their rules.
Without trawling through 28 pages of praises and whinges, anyone wanna take a shot at what's going on with the 'Rogue Trader' thing? My guess is it's just an optional faction for Kill-Team.
fresus wrote: So far it looks like what I was hoping for, except for the lack of Inquisition. I'm pretty bummed since I started working on a team specifically for the game. Hopefully the amount of customization available to IG will allow me to run most of my models with their rules.
They’ve confirmed they’re doing further forces in the future.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Without trawling through 28 pages of praises and whinges, anyone wanna take a shot at what's going on with the 'Rogue Trader' thing? My guess is it's just an optional faction for Kill-Team.
At the very least it'll be two new factions (Rogue Traders and the Xenos/Chaos thingies) and a new killzone, on board a ship, which looks to me more akin to the "tunnels" you can use in Necromunda as opposed to 3D terrain.
What's interesting is that they mention in the Kill Team article that teams will be 5-10 models, but while the Rogue Trader team seems to be exactly 10, the Chaos/Xenos thingies are at least 16-17 models, by my count. So either some teams are less "elite" and can go over, or Rogue Trader sees a return of the Kill Team variant with one kill team and the opponent using a number of "goon" squads. Possibly also a more "RPG"-like variant?
Interesting to see will also be how customizable the Rogue Trader models are, as customizability appears to be a pretty key part of Kill Team.
Kill team seems like it is designed for gw to try out new factions for 40k. Add one unit and maybe a character type model or two, and see if it cat hes on. And if it explodes in popularity like say custodes did with their one kit, that line gets promoted to a larger line. Also lets them drip feed out some plastic kits that have needed doi g, without needing to wait for a codex.
But no vehicles of any sort. And I don't mean Baneblades or Monoliths or whatever. I mean the smaller ones - Sentinels, Kanz, War Walkers - that sort of thing.
That's a shame.
stormboy wrote: Can you find another place to vent about Necromunda? Maybe in a Necromunda thread?
Chopstick wrote: Both of the factions from Rogue Trader look like monopose kit with 0 weapon option. Especially the mutant/chaos side. Color me surprised GW.
People said that about the Necromunda kits too. Kill Team is a game about customisation; failure to include any in the first ‘large’ expansion (being a Killzone and two new factions in one) would be a massive derp on their part.
drbored wrote: People are jumping to the conclusion that the Kill Zones and box sets are going to have rules unavailable anywhere else, not once considering that perhaps some of the rules will be available separately, or in the core rulebook.
This is outright delusional. Look at Necromunda and Shadespire. If you want all the rules, you need all the card packs and all the warbands. But at least it was all bundled with brand new minis. GW is now experimenting to see if we'll pay for cards bundled with old minis too.
It's the "if" that's important there. I understand that you want to own every single bit of rules text published for the game; fair enough. The thing is, that's not been a problem for anyone I know playing Necromunda (I'm the only person who's bothered to buy all the decks of Tactics cards, and no-one else is bothered), and I think this will be the same. I'd quite like to have the six cards apparently only included with the Space Wolves starter set, but since I already have loads of Space Wolves models, I'll just make a Kill Team from the ones I have and do without the cards. I doubt it'll matter.
X078 wrote: Ahh the gangwar sup, well goes to show how fast i lost interest No loss since Kill Team is here!
Lol, you lost interest before actually reading about the game..
Yeah, but to be fair i don't think they had the rules for 3D terrain in the first box which was one of my good old memories of Oldmunda. I just lost interest then, though Van Saar models looks cool.
For the "40k" verse Kill Team looks to be the best evolution of all these special/box whatever games they've put out in my view, I R Stoked!
Chopstick wrote:Both of the factions from Rogue Trader look like monopose kit with 0 weapon option. Especially the mutant/chaos side. Color me surprised GW.
Oh no. That might mean they require some modelling!!!
X078 wrote: Ahh the gangwar sup, well goes to show how fast i lost interest No loss since Kill Team is here!
Lol, you lost interest before actually reading about the game..
Yeah, but to be fair i don't think they had the rules for 3D terrain in the first box which was one of my good old memories of Oldmunda. I just lost interest then, though Van Saar models looks cool.
For the "40k" verse Kill Team looks to be the best evolution of all these special/box whatever games they've put out in my view, I R Stoked!
The 3D rules were in Gang War 1, released the same day as the original box.
It literally tells you in the Community post and the pdf FAQ that they're planning to support this as its own product line for years. We already know that the Rogue Trader expansion includes bespoke models.
Most of the complaints in this thread can be assuaged by actually reading the source of the information.
Grinshanks wrote: I am not seeing a great deal of difference between this and Shadow War Armageddon to be honest.
Alternating turns, a different skill tree, and some tactics cards.
Like Shadow War it uses existing models and terrain. What support is it going to realistically get outside of more multi use terrain?
You mean apart from all the support they already announced, like the faction packs for the factions included in the core rules and the expansion with two completely new factions, right?
SWA = 2nd edition 40k ruleset (and 1st/2nd edition of Necromunda but with 40k factions instead of gangs)
Killteam = 8th edition 40k rules with alternate activation and other additions to the basic rules
ninjaed, already answered
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And indoor combat, maybe with more sophisticated rules, in its Rogue Trader expansion.
While I haven't read the rules obviously, this is looking to be the perfect 40k game for me. Low model count with progression is how I generally prefer my games, and since this is designed to be able to support semi-competitive play, I'm guessing the games probably aren't more than an hour or an hour and a half. The play time will likely allowing multiple games in an evening. Another huge plus to me is the size of the board. I love me a game that I don't need to set up a special table to play on, and that I can play pretty much wherever. Bonus points for the board and all the terrain you need being in the core boxed set. A big set back for Necromunda is the ludicrous amount of terrain needed to get a good 3D game going.
It seems a lot of people are pretty upset about the "exclusive" tactics cards in the expansion sets. I can understand how if you are a completionist or hyper-competitive this could be a big turn off, but since I'm going to be playing with my buds over beers I'm not too bothered.
The only downside to me (as many have pointed out) is no Inquisition from the get go. This game seems like a perfect excuse to put out some plastic Inquisition minis (probably monopose like the Rogue Trader ones coming up), so I'm sure we'll see some Ordos forces eventually. In the meanwhile I'll probably use the Scion rules to run some Inquisitional Storm Troopers and sub an Inquisitor model in for the Sarge.
Grinshanks wrote: I am not seeing a great deal of difference between this and Shadow War Armageddon to be honest.
Alternating turns, a different skill tree, and some tactics cards.
Like Shadow War it uses existing models and terrain. What support is it going to realistically get outside of more multi use terrain?
You mean apart from all the support they already announced, like the faction packs for the factions included in the core rules and the expansion with two completely new factions, right?
If by 'faction packs' you are referring to the Ork and Space Wolf starter bundles of existing models with an 8 page premade team to get you going, then no I don't really count that much. Starter kits are fine and dandy, but they don't contribute to the longevity of a game.
I had forgotten about the Rogue Trader expansion though, so that is definitely support and a plus. Kill Team will live or die depending on new factions/rules like that added to the game and I hope they announce more support soon.
I genuinely think they should have led with it, because as it stands Kill Team on release is just another rebundling of models and terrain like Shadow War..
Grinshanks wrote: I am not seeing a great deal of difference between this and Shadow War Armageddon to be honest.
Alternating turns, a different skill tree, and some tactics cards.
Like Shadow War it uses existing models and terrain. What support is it going to realistically get outside of more multi use terrain?
You mean apart from all the support they already announced, like the faction packs for the factions included in the core rules and the expansion with two completely new factions, right?
If by 'faction packs' you are referring to the Ork and Space Wolf starter bundles of existing models with an 8 page premade team to get you going, then no I don't really count that much. Starter kits are fine and dandy, but they don't contribute to the longevity of a game.
I had forgotten about the Rogue Trader expansion though, so that is definitely support and a plus. Kill Team will live or die depending on new factions/rules like that added to the game and I hope they announce more support soon.
I genuinely think they should have led with it, because as it stands Kill Team on release is just another rebundling of models and terrain like Shadow War..
It will live or die depending on the quality of the rules. Same reason that people still play SWA- the core rules are enough to build around, even if its not GW doing the building.
I dont get your dig about the starter packs, that is literally what is happening with Shadespire and there is no argument as to whether that is a supported game or not.
And if killteam is just a rebundling of models and terrain (alongside a decent quality set of rules and at a massive discount- think you missed that part) then who gives a feth? when has getting a tonne of cool gak at a huge discount alongside a playable game ever been a bad thing?
I dont get what your problem is, its an awesome intro release, with already announced future releases.
Sabotage! wrote: While I haven't read the rules obviously, this is looking to be the perfect 40k game for me. Low model count with progression is how I generally prefer my games, and since this is designed to be able to support semi-competitive play, I'm guessing the games probably aren't more than an hour or an hour and a half. The play time will likely allowing multiple games in an evening. Another huge plus to me is the size of the board. I love me a game that I don't need to set up a special table to play on, and that I can play pretty much wherever. Bonus points for the board and all the terrain you need being in the core boxed set. A big set back for Necromunda is the ludicrous amount of terrain needed to get a good 3D game going.
It seems a lot of people are pretty upset about the "exclusive" tactics cards in the expansion sets. I can understand how if you are a completionist or hyper-competitive this could be a big turn off, but since I'm going to be playing with my buds over beers I'm not too bothered.
The only downside to me (as many have pointed out) is no Inquisition from the get go. This game seems like a perfect excuse to put out some plastic Inquisition minis (probably monopose like the Rogue Trader ones coming up), so I'm sure we'll see some Ordos forces eventually. In the meanwhile I'll probably use the Scion rules to run some Inquisitional Storm Troopers and sub an Inquisitor model in for the Sarge.
Could convert an Interrogator to lead the squad- then it would be like a mission delegated by the Inquisitor to a trusted lieutenant, and would fit the profile better.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Without trawling through 28 pages of praises and whinges, anyone wanna take a shot at what's going on with the 'Rogue Trader' thing? My guess is it's just an optional faction for Kill-Team.
At the very least it'll be two new factions (Rogue Traders and the Xenos/Chaos thingies) and a new killzone, on board a ship, which looks to me more akin to the "tunnels" you can use in Necromunda as opposed to 3D terrain.
What's interesting is that they mention in the Kill Team article that teams will be 5-10 models, but while the Rogue Trader team seems to be exactly 10, the Chaos/Xenos thingies are at least 16-17 models, by my count. So either some teams are less "elite" and can go over, or Rogue Trader sees a return of the Kill Team variant with one kill team and the opponent using a number of "goon" squads. Possibly also a more "RPG"-like variant?
Interesting to see will also be how customizable the Rogue Trader models are, as customizability appears to be a pretty key part of Kill Team.
Can you link to where the Rogue Trader pics you're referring to are? Thanks
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Without trawling through 28 pages of praises and whinges, anyone wanna take a shot at what's going on with the 'Rogue Trader' thing? My guess is it's just an optional faction for Kill-Team.
At the very least it'll be two new factions (Rogue Traders and the Xenos/Chaos thingies) and a new killzone, on board a ship, which looks to me more akin to the "tunnels" you can use in Necromunda as opposed to 3D terrain.
What's interesting is that they mention in the Kill Team article that teams will be 5-10 models, but while the Rogue Trader team seems to be exactly 10, the Chaos/Xenos thingies are at least 16-17 models, by my count. So either some teams are less "elite" and can go over, or Rogue Trader sees a return of the Kill Team variant with one kill team and the opponent using a number of "goon" squads. Possibly also a more "RPG"-like variant?
Interesting to see will also be how customizable the Rogue Trader models are, as customizability appears to be a pretty key part of Kill Team.
Can you link to where the Rogue Trader pics you're referring to are? Thanks
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Without trawling through 28 pages of praises and whinges, anyone wanna take a shot at what's going on with the 'Rogue Trader' thing? My guess is it's just an optional faction for Kill-Team.
At the very least it'll be two new factions (Rogue Traders and the Xenos/Chaos thingies) and a new killzone, on board a ship, which looks to me more akin to the "tunnels" you can use in Necromunda as opposed to 3D terrain.
What's interesting is that they mention in the Kill Team article that teams will be 5-10 models, but while the Rogue Trader team seems to be exactly 10, the Chaos/Xenos thingies are at least 16-17 models, by my count. So either some teams are less "elite" and can go over, or Rogue Trader sees a return of the Kill Team variant with one kill team and the opponent using a number of "goon" squads. Possibly also a more "RPG"-like variant?
Interesting to see will also be how customizable the Rogue Trader models are, as customizability appears to be a pretty key part of Kill Team.
Can you link to where the Rogue Trader pics you're referring to are? Thanks
Haighus wrote:
Could convert an Interrogator to lead the squad- then it would be like a mission delegated by the Inquisitor to a trusted lieutenant, and would fit the profile better.
Excellent point, I've got a number of Inquisitors and Interrogators I've thrown together/kit-bashed over the years, I'll have to put one of the juniors to use!
Process wrote:
And if killteam is just a rebundling of models and terrain (alongside a decent quality set of rules and at a massive discount- think you missed that part) then who gives a feth? when has getting a tonne of cool gak at a huge discount alongside a playable game ever been a bad thing?
This is really spot on to me. I'm actually really impressed at the core box (though we don't have a price yet). There aren't many GW products where you get literally everything you need to play in the box (and by everything you need to play, I mean max model count army/warband, full conversion options for said models, full terrain, rules, dice, etc). As a complete package by GW this may be the best one yet. Honestly there aren't many miniature games like that one the market period. This is one of the best starter boxes I've ever seen.
Grinshanks wrote: I am not seeing a great deal of difference between this and Shadow War Armageddon to be honest.
Alternating turns, a different skill tree, and some tactics cards.
Like Shadow War it uses existing models and terrain. What support is it going to realistically get outside of more multi use terrain?
You mean apart from all the support they already announced, like the faction packs for the factions included in the core rules and the expansion with two completely new factions, right?
If by 'faction packs' you are referring to the Ork and Space Wolf starter bundles of existing models with an 8 page premade team to get you going, then no I don't really count that much. Starter kits are fine and dandy, but they don't contribute to the longevity of a game.
I had forgotten about the Rogue Trader expansion though, so that is definitely support and a plus. Kill Team will live or die depending on new factions/rules like that added to the game and I hope they announce more support soon.
I genuinely think they should have led with it, because as it stands Kill Team on release is just another rebundling of models and terrain like Shadow War..
It will live or die depending on the quality of the rules. Same reason that people still play SWA- the core rules are enough to build around, even if its not GW doing the building.
I dont get your dig about the starter packs, that is literally what is happening with Shadespire and there is no argument as to whether that is a supported game or not.
And if killteam is just a rebundling of models and terrain (alongside a decent quality set of rules and at a massive discount- think you missed that part) then who gives a feth? when has getting a tonne of cool gak at a huge discount alongside a playable game ever been a bad thing?
I dont get what your problem is, its an awesome intro release, with already announced future releases.
Well no, because Shadespire releases contain new models, not just reboxed existing AOS stuff, and plays a lot different to AOS and not just due to scale.
And I do care about it being more than a discounted 40k set with added rules, because not everyone is looking to buy this stuff with an eye for its use in regular 40k. I couldn't care less about using this stuff in regular 40k.
Again, if all you want is discounted 40k terrain with some added rules thrown in then thats fine. Just like it is fine for me to want a decent skirmish 40k game that isn't just 40k scaled down.
Does anyone know if the kill teams in the starter box will be in the pre-colored plastic as well. The terrain in the starter box is pre-colored too, right?
Grinshanks wrote: I am not seeing a great deal of difference between this and Shadow War Armageddon to be honest.
Alternating turns, a different skill tree, and some tactics cards.
Like Shadow War it uses existing models and terrain. What support is it going to realistically get outside of more multi use terrain?
You mean apart from all the support they already announced, like the faction packs for the factions included in the core rules and the expansion with two completely new factions, right?
If by 'faction packs' you are referring to the Ork and Space Wolf starter bundles of existing models with an 8 page premade team to get you going, then no I don't really count that much. Starter kits are fine and dandy, but they don't contribute to the longevity of a game.
I had forgotten about the Rogue Trader expansion though, so that is definitely support and a plus. Kill Team will live or die depending on new factions/rules like that added to the game and I hope they announce more support soon.
I genuinely think they should have led with it, because as it stands Kill Team on release is just another rebundling of models and terrain like Shadow War..
It will live or die depending on the quality of the rules. Same reason that people still play SWA- the core rules are enough to build around, even if its not GW doing the building.
I dont get your dig about the starter packs, that is literally what is happening with Shadespire and there is no argument as to whether that is a supported game or not.
And if killteam is just a rebundling of models and terrain (alongside a decent quality set of rules and at a massive discount- think you missed that part) then who gives a feth? when has getting a tonne of cool gak at a huge discount alongside a playable game ever been a bad thing?
I dont get what your problem is, its an awesome intro release, with already announced future releases.
Well no, because Shadespire releases contain new models, not just reboxed existing AOS stuff, and plays a lot different to AOS and not just due to scale.
And I do care about it being more than a discounted 40k set with added rules, because not everyone is looking to buy this stuff with an eye for its use in regular 40k. I couldn't care less about using this stuff in regular 40k.
Again, if all you want is discounted 40k terrain with some added rules thrown in then thats fine. Just like it is fine for me to want a decent skirmish 40k game that isn't just 40k scaled down.
I'd say they are leading with this and not with Rogue Trader because the Skitarii and Neophytes kits are some of the most customizable GW has put out for 40k in recent years, which allows even someone who has no 40k models to start with the full KT experience (including "build-your-own-team" options) right from the box; while putting out the rule book and dice on their own also allows those with existing collections of models and terrain to dive right in. Meanwhile, Rogue Trader, from what we've seen, appears that it will have less (or non-)customizable models, two very specific, new factions, and probably certain rules that make it different from the basic KT. They've stated in the Warhammer Community Post that KT will be one of the "main ways to play", alongside main 40k, AoS, etc. - I take that to mean that GW are finally seriously looking into the Skirmish market, and it makes total sense to me that they'd want to emphasize that this is for their existing 40k background, with room for their existing models - which is why many people became interested in the 40k universe in the first place.
Apple Peel wrote: Does anyone know if the kill teams in the starter box will be in the pre-colored plastic as well. The terrain in the starter box is pre-colored too, right?
No, they made a point of explaining they chose to use pre-existing 40k kits (for ease of conversions). Not sure about the future Rogue Trader stuff, but I would imagine they would keep it consistent.
I wonder what the largest model allowed will be? Is it going to be only things that qualify as "troops"? It would be pretty cool to have a dreadnought in your kill team. Somehow I'm doubting that will be allowed, though.
I'm really looking forward to alternating activation rules since the 40K alpha strike/random advantage to first player might be mitigated. I really enjoy the Bolt Action rules for that reason.
Also really looking forward to being able to have a balanced 3 player game. I'm wondering if they are going to have a revised 40K version of the Triumph and Treachery ruleset.
I really, really cannot wait to see the diversity of units we'll have access to. There's so many armies I'm willing to make kill teams for, and I couldn't be more excited.
Apple Peel wrote: Does anyone know if the kill teams in the starter box will be in the pre-colored plastic as well. The terrain in the starter box is pre-colored too, right?
No, they made a point of explaining they chose to use pre-existing 40k kits (for ease of conversions). Not sure about the future Rogue Trader stuff, but I would imagine they would keep it consistent.
I think that’s kinda silly. They are going to use existing molds of soldiers from different factions, and they are casting them in color for the start-your-kill team boxes, but they are not going to cast the starter box kill teams in color? That just seems silly.
Very impressive release on the community site, I was quite excited.
Would echo the downside of having to get the starter sets to pick up rules though. I mean who really wants 5 burna boys or a few more Stealers.
Bring on that new terrain however
Grinshanks wrote: I am not seeing a great deal of difference between this and Shadow War Armageddon to be honest.
Alternating turns, a different skill tree, and some tactics cards.
Like Shadow War it uses existing models and terrain. What support is it going to realistically get outside of more multi use terrain?
You mean apart from all the support they already announced, like the faction packs for the factions included in the core rules and the expansion with two completely new factions, right?
If by 'faction packs' you are referring to the Ork and Space Wolf starter bundles of existing models with an 8 page premade team to get you going, then no I don't really count that much. Starter kits are fine and dandy, but they don't contribute to the longevity of a game.
I had forgotten about the Rogue Trader expansion though, so that is definitely support and a plus. Kill Team will live or die depending on new factions/rules like that added to the game and I hope they announce more support soon.
I genuinely think they should have led with it, because as it stands Kill Team on release is just another rebundling of models and terrain like Shadow War..
It will live or die depending on the quality of the rules. Same reason that people still play SWA- the core rules are enough to build around, even if its not GW doing the building.
I dont get your dig about the starter packs, that is literally what is happening with Shadespire and there is no argument as to whether that is a supported game or not.
And if killteam is just a rebundling of models and terrain (alongside a decent quality set of rules and at a massive discount- think you missed that part) then who gives a feth? when has getting a tonne of cool gak at a huge discount alongside a playable game ever been a bad thing?
I dont get what your problem is, its an awesome intro release, with already announced future releases.
Well no, because Shadespire releases contain new models, not just reboxed existing AOS stuff, and plays a lot different to AOS and not just due to scale.
And I do care about it being more than a discounted 40k set with added rules, because not everyone is looking to buy this stuff with an eye for its use in regular 40k. I couldn't care less about using this stuff in regular 40k.
Again, if all you want is discounted 40k terrain with some added rules thrown in then thats fine. Just like it is fine for me to want a decent skirmish 40k game that isn't just 40k scaled down.
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Considering i referenced quality rules multiple times in my post, i dont know what your arguing against. And the ork and space wolf starter kits are easy build single pose kits- just like shadespire, so there's your new models.
Just stop whining about good news like you have to find a negative. Its good, theyre gonna support it, they've said they are.
I get that you're getting a kick out of being rude, but I am as entitled to discuss the game and give my opinion as anyone, even if you don't agree with it.
I have not even been entirely negative about it all, I said I was looking forward to Rogue Trader. How about you 'just stop whining' about other people having a different opinion?
Also I have no idea where you have got the idea the Ork and Space Wolf kits are new single pose kits? They're they're exact same as the current models and I can only see that they'll be in coloured plastic?
I get that you're getting a kick out of being rude, but I am as entitled to discuss the game and give my opinion as anyone, even if you don't agree with it.
I have not even been entirely negative about it all, I said I was looking forward to Rogue Trader. How about you 'just stop whining' about other people having a different opinion?
Also I have no idea where you have got the idea the Ork and Space Wolf kits are new single pose kits? They're they're exact same as the current models and I can only see that they'll be in coloured plastic?
But will the stuff in the Killteam game starter box be cast in color? That is what I want to know, because if I know Gee Dubya, they just throw kits into boxes, say the start collecting boxes. That’s how I ended up getting a free Militarum Tempestus Scion sprue.
I get that you're getting a kick out of being rude, but I am as entitled to discuss the game and give my opinion as anyone, even if you don't agree with it.
I have not even been entirely negative about it all, I said I was looking forward to Rogue Trader. How about you 'just stop whining' about other people having a different opinion?
Also I have no idea where you have got the idea the Ork and Space Wolf kits are new single pose kits? They're they're exact same as the current models and I can only see that they'll be in coloured plastic?
But will the stuff in the Killteam game starter box be cast in color? That is what I want to know, because if I know Gee Dubya, they just throw kits into boxes, say the start collecting boxes. That’s how I ended up getting a free Militarum Tempestus Scion sprue.
The article didn't mention if it would for the Kill Team: Box Set, but did say they would in the Ork and SW Starter Set...so maybe!
That preview seems to confirm what I feared: that you just have the options available to the squads in 40K. No fun things like Infiltrators with arquebuses allowed. Boring.
I’m hoping to get friends into 40k through Killteam, the less painting, the better.
There will be exactly the same amount of painting.
zamerion wrote: They haven t showed any profile of miniatures or weapons :(
Also its curious that there are only 4 troop "normal" types.. and then you see rogue trader, and its only 1 kind of troop and a lots of "heroes"
This is an assumption on your part.
Kill Team, previously, allowed for you to field Elites, Troops, and Fast Attacks. I won't be too surprised if we see Platoon Commanders as an option for Guard--things that are effectively 'single model units'.
Crimson wrote: That preview seems to confirm what I feared: that you just have the options available to the squads in 40K. No fun things like Infiltrators with arquebuses allowed. Boring.
I’m hoping to get friends into 40k through Killteam, the less painting, the better.
There will be exactly the same amount of painting.
zamerion wrote: They haven t showed any profile of miniatures or weapons :(
Also its curious that there are only 4 troop "normal" types.. and then you see rogue trader, and its only 1 kind of troop and a lots of "heroes"
This is an assumption on your part.
Kill Team, previously, allowed for you to field Elites, Troops, and Fast Attacks. I won't be too surprised if we see Platoon Commanders as an option for Guard--things that are effectively 'single model units'.
Yeah, they even said you could mix Reivers with Tactical Marines, so there is that.
Crimson wrote: That preview seems to confirm what I feared: that you just have the options available to the squads in 40K. No fun things like Infiltrators with arquebuses allowed. Boring.
I’m hoping to get friends into 40k through Killteam, the less painting, the better.
There will be exactly the same amount of painting.
Then what is the bloody point of colored plastic?
You don't 'have' to paint them.
If you 'had' to paint it, then a lot of players would never play 40k due to their painting backolog haha!
You'll want to paint them eventually though because (a) it looks much much better (b) FLGS/Tournaments may require it.
Coloured plastic just helps differential sides. Which is probably enough for beginners like your friends to get into it.
Chopstick wrote: No electro priest? Thought GW really want people to buy that kit in 8th by nerfing Rustalker to the ground =]
Of course there's no Electropriests. What about them makes you think "covert ops"?
Yeah, they're not as stealthy as a Space Marine riding a giant wolf
Hey, wolves are sneaky as hell. Not like the guy couldn't hop off.
I was hoping for a stealthy, floating Talos to go along with a tactically genius Haemonculous and some special forces Wracks. My Magic 8-Ball says 'Don't count on it'
Chopstick wrote: No electro priest? Thought GW really want people to buy that kit in 8th by nerfing Rustalker to the ground =]
Of course there's no Electropriests. What about them makes you think "covert ops"?
Yeah, they're not as stealthy as a Space Marine riding a giant wolf
Hey, wolves are sneaky as hell. Not like the guy couldn't hop off.
I was hoping for a stealthy, floating Talos to go along with a tactically genius Haemonculous and some special forces Wracks. My Magic 8-Ball says 'Don't count on it'
Realistically, the caveats used to explain these things in the past is that they're the things that 'emphasize a force's tactical doctrines'. A Lone Wolf on a Thunderwolf isn't something unexpected for what would basically be a 'Thirteen Warriors' styled group for the Space Wolves.
Same as a Drukhari raiding force with Hellions, Wyches, and Kabalite Warriors or things like Bullgryn, Guardsmen, and a Commissar.
Well the trailer showed wolves, but the faction is Space Marines, not Space Wolves. Even the starter box with Space Wolves on it says Space Marine Starter, not Space Wolves. So how is that going to work unless those lists are significantly longer than SWA's lists with Keywords...so Dark Angels don't end up riding wolves.
I think how lists get build will be very interesting to see. I'd expect at least as little choices as SWA and where those Operatives are available to the list, but in ones or twos...or maybe by spending CP for the battle? I'd expect to see some Stealthsuits or terminators in this game, but just not sure how they'll make it into lists and the tabletop.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Well the trailer showed wolves, but the faction is Space Marines, not Space Wolves. Even the starter box with Space Wolves on it says Space Marine Starter, not Space Wolves. So how is that going to work unless those lists are significantly longer than SWA's lists with Keywords...so Dark Angels don't end up riding wolves.
I think how lists get build will be very interesting to see. I'd expect at least as little choices as SWA and where those Operatives are available to the list, but in ones or twos...or maybe by spending CP for the battle? I'd expect to see some Stealthsuits or terminators in this game, but just not sure how they'll make it into lists and the tabletop.
There is no chapter-specific articles planned according to the Kill Team Faction Focus Index, just one for 'Adeptus Astartes'.
Not happy with the reuse of 8th edition rules. Was hoping for a unique game but every rumour, community post and leak has shown that this just seems right now as kinda lazy. Really hope I'm wrong and it's ana amazing rule set that lets me really go crazy on making unique units I fel like i want to name.
with all the info beginning to come out about Kill Team I begin to suspect Rogue Trader may well be some sort of Narrative game based on the Kill Team ruleset
that way they get a stand alone game that will sell to 40K players and Killteam players
and it would explain the number of apparent 'heroes' on the RT side of the box with doesn't fit with what they've shown for killteam. Most of the time you'll be using one of them with some buck rogers guards and there will maybe be a big scenario at the end of the game where you can use them all
Honestly, was kinda against the people complaining but now I kinda get it... you bought a rule book so expect the rules to be in it but GW is basically selling day 1 DLC in the form of starter boxes that have the complete rules obviously cut out of the rule book to persuade players to buy units they already have painted.
It would have been better for both new and old players if they made a cheapish £10-20 starter set for each faction with 5 troops in and a sprue with extra bits on. Then, let the rule book just be the rule book without me having to staple and carry an encyclopedia around with me of all the rules I am missing because I didn't buy all the box sets.
I know that, there was no chapter-specific lists for SWA, yet there was some differentiation. The faction focus' might not be the whole story since the first teaser for Kill Team has Space Wolves on wolves. Sure people can make mistakes, but GW was already printing books by the time that video was released. They knew what you could take and couldn't... So either there will be: additional operatives, wolves for everybody, or whoops--my bad about the wolves in the video.
I'm wondering now if Rogue Trader doesn't just add HQ and personalities to the game and make Kill Team more like Mordheim. Your cool personalities will advance like Necromunda characters and your grunts will have less detailed advancement. Only thing is that could split the base between those wanting to play a "pure" Kill Team and those running over to Inquisimunda 8th Edition.
There’s loads of stuff from Forge World that’s great for Kill Team. The Astra Militarum rules encompass ALL regiments of the Guard, so could well represent your Death Korps of Krieg, while the various upgrade packs and conversion kits that are available are great for customising your collection. There are currently no plans for rules for individual Forge World units.
So for Krieg you would use the same rules as Cadians, Mordians, Valhallans, Vostroyans, etc.
Crimson wrote: That preview seems to confirm what I feared: that you just have the options available to the squads in 40K. No fun things like Infiltrators with arquebuses allowed. Boring.
Aye, not my bag at all. Limited units, limited options, "catch 'em all" rules collecting, ech. Ah well, back to hoping for a new Inquisimunda.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Well the trailer showed wolves, but the faction is Space Marines, not Space Wolves. Even the starter box with Space Wolves on it says Space Marine Starter, not Space Wolves. So how is that going to work unless those lists are significantly longer than SWA's lists with Keywords...so Dark Angels don't end up riding wolves.
I think how lists get build will be very interesting to see. I'd expect at least as little choices as SWA and where those Operatives are available to the list, but in ones or twos...or maybe by spending CP for the battle? I'd expect to see some Stealthsuits or terminators in this game, but just not sure how they'll make it into lists and the tabletop.
Maybe the unit entry will be "Marine Rider" or something, with a note that this datasheet can represent a space marine on a bike or similar units such as thunderwolf cavalry.
Crimson wrote: That preview seems to confirm what I feared: that you just have the options available to the squads in 40K. No fun things like Infiltrators with arquebuses allowed. Boring.
Aye, not my bag at all. Limited units, limited options, "catch 'em all" rules collecting, ech. Ah well, back to hoping for a new Inquisimunda.
Honestly, we do not know how many of those Tactics cards will not also be represented 1. In the initial Rulebook, 2. In further rulebooks (we know these are coming, see Rogue Trader, 3. Will be made available later in Tactics card packs or 4. Will be published for free on a KT website. All we know now is that 6 of 12 Ork Tactics cards are unique to the starter set. Whether that’s the card format, or the Tactics themselves, we don’t know for sure. Worst case scenario, you’ll “need” your faction of choice’s starter box if you want to enter competetive play. While that’s not ideal, it’s hardly “collect them all”.
Anyway, I’m still looking forward to this. A properly supported 40k skirmish game, now even with promised model support (as opposed to rules only), is all I’ve ever wanted.
What I’m hoping they’ll explain alongside the faction previews, is how list building works - we’ve no information on that so far apart from the fact that you can mix and match from different squads. We do also know “battleforged” is a thing in KT, so perhaps that’ll apply to Kill Teams drawing their fighters from one unit type only?
Yodhrin wrote: Aye, not my bag at all. Limited units, limited options, "catch 'em all" rules collecting, ech. Ah well, back to hoping for a new Inquisimunda.
"catch 'em all" rules collecting? Do you have a similar opinion about Necromunda and Blood Bowl's use of tactics cards? What about Magic the Gathering? Is that a cynical exercise in forcing consumers to pay extra to have all the rules?
