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No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 16:23:52


Post by: Jidmah


 Grimskul wrote:
In that case, what is good in a deepstriking bonebreaka/battlewagon? Given the issue we just presented, do Nobz not fare any better or do they get by from the fact that they're cheaper? I'm thinking maaaybe tankbustas but now that the FAQ clarified that they aren't affected by stratagems, it might be a similar case to meganobz where its better to use them in a suicide strike capacity so you can do a one shot wonder and eliminate an enemy unit there and then rather than sit inside and shoot normally. Also, in the instance of the shooty unit, I would assume its not a bonebreaka since that defeats the purpose of its shooting capability (unless you're Blood Axes I guess).


I really see no competitive reason to drop a bonebreaka out of the sky. If you want fighty, bring a gorkanaut or dreads. The bonebreak is closed, so passengers really don't matter - so if you want to deep strike one best just fill it with boyz so it's not a huge loss when they get surrounded. A battlewagon with deff rolla is 3" wide and ~7" long, so even if your opponent puts it in a perfect donut of models, you will still be able to deploy 5-6 25mm models. Any 32mm models (or larger) will die.

Battlewagons are open topped though, making shooty passengers great. Flash gits or tank bustas can be dropped wherever you need them. This might be the one reason to use rokkit pistols since you can continue shooting when you are locked in combat. I wouldn't want to charge something with the tellporting BW though. Probably best done with Freeboota kultur, drop the wagon within 24" of a unit that is likely to get a kill, or stick a bunch of weapons on the wagon (shootas, skikkbomb chukka, killkannon) to trigger it for yourself. The wagon will be within 24" of itself and them confer the bonus to its passengers.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 16:29:51


Post by: gungo


It’s ok would have been great if he was toughness 9.
The problem w speed wagon is your heavily invest in mediocre buggies and bikes and all the index bikes options don’t have the speedfreak tag.

Looking forward to dreadmob. I don’t see how they can make Killa kans great though.

The blitz brigade might be decent if improving bonebreakers.

The stompa one is just going to be garbage.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 16:35:03


Post by: crzylgs


Stompa one would have to be buy one get one/two free...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 16:43:47


Post by: Vineheart01


Stompa legit needs a 300pt price cut for its current statline to make sense. The fact it degrades 3 times HEAVILY dinks its potential compared to other things, making that huge wound pool pretty pointless.
Its barely stronger than a GargSquiggoth, which is shy of 500pts, for 900....really?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 17:08:29


Post by: oomiestompa


the_scotsman wrote:
 oomiestompa wrote:
How's this for a ded 'ard HQ? Deffkilla Wartrike with the Kult of Speed relic, 'Ard as Nails warlord trait, and Snakebite kultur.

You get a T8 wartrike with 4+/5++/6+++.


I think that might actually be less durable than the Bad Moonz WL trait+Supa-Cybork versus most weaponry, sadly.


I did a little math on it. You're right. The KoS version only gains an advantage against bolter fire. Versus basically everything else, the Bad Moon version is tankier.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 17:44:12


Post by: Pandabeer


PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/05/5th-dec-xenos-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

Some new info on the Kult of speed detachment. That's a relic they tease on the deffkilla, so at least you have some options from the supa-cybork body

Edit: Becoming fearless is a decent buff I suppose but the relic is a side-grade from the cybork one IMO. Getting to move twice albeit forgoing advancing is real nice though. Moving bikes 32" and still being able to charge T1 sounds pretty tasty. The bike-throng rides again?

Edit 2: I guess it'd be a 30" move actually since it doubles your movement characteristic so the +2 would only apply once
Edit 3: No, the evil sunz trait adds to the movement characteristic so it would be 32" then. At least thats how I read that.


Well, a 5++ is pretty damn good against the heavy hitting stuff you're most likely going to be targeted with. The +1T isn't much of a boost however (T7 only helps against S6 and S7 which aren't all that common). It can be combined with 'Ard as Nails for T8 (improves saves vs. S4 and S8 which are very common) but you lose a lot of punch/ tactical flexibility because you can no longer take Brutal but Kunnin' or Kunnin' but Brutal. Personally I'll probably take the Relic Trike as Evil Sunz with Brutal but Kunnin' because that +1D on the Snagga Claw is so Gorkdamn awesome.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 19:16:15


Post by: gungo


 oomiestompa wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 oomiestompa wrote:
How's this for a ded 'ard HQ? Deffkilla Wartrike with the Kult of Speed relic, 'Ard as Nails warlord trait, and Snakebite kultur.

You get a T8 wartrike with 4+/5++/6+++.


I think that might actually be less durable than the Bad Moonz WL trait+Supa-Cybork versus most weaponry, sadly.


I did a little math on it. You're right. The KoS version only gains an advantage against bolter fire. Versus basically everything else, the Bad Moon version is tankier.

Remember this is just a detachment bonus you can theoretically have
Trike relic
Badmoon wl trust and super cybork
All in one detachment
Obviously wouldn’t put them all on a single trike but you can have 2 trikes or a trike with this relic and an index biker boss w badmoon wL trait and relic claw/relic choppa
Spread that durability around.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 19:17:05


Post by: Castozor


I'm having high hopes for the Dread Waagh. Our codex is great but left kans in the cold so my planned dread mob was shelved. If we get better dredds and (a man can hope) kans I can make my walker wall after all.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 21:16:38


Post by: BAN


Shiny gubbins question... is it worth a command point to take super cybork on my defftrike warlord (have relic klaw on a Warboss on bike)
I have already spent a cp to make a warphead and orks are very cp thirsty.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 21:21:29


Post by: BaconCatBug


BAN wrote:
Shiny gubbins question... is it worth a command point to take super cybork on my defftrike warlord (have relic klaw on a Warboss on bike)
I have already spent a cp to make a warphead and orks are very cp thirsty.
If you don't have at least 18 CP as Orks you're doing it wrong.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 21:24:42


Post by: Sal4m4nd3r


 BaconCatBug wrote:
BAN wrote:
Shiny gubbins question... is it worth a command point to take super cybork on my defftrike warlord (have relic klaw on a Warboss on bike)
I have already spent a cp to make a warphead and orks are very cp thirsty.
If you don't have at least 18 CP as Orks you're doing it wrong.


oh ok so you HAVE to have 3 battalions or you're not competitive? Cmon, thats a pretty dumb statement. Your spending 214 points for 5 cp. Sure its good, but it is not the only competitive build.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 21:31:40


Post by: BaconCatBug


You either take 3 battalions or a Brigade+Battalion. Orks NEED their stratagems to be competitive, period. Thus to be competitive you need to maximize your CP. You aren't going to fit 3 Brigades into the de facto standard 2000 points list, so you take 3 Battalions for 18 CP or a Brigade+Battalion for 20 CP.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/05 22:23:39


Post by: hortsmann


The requirements for 3 battalions are so easy to meet that I don't see a reason not to take it. 1 warboss and 3 weirdboyz seem great in any list, and a KFF will fit in most of them, so that's already 5 out of the 6 HQ. 90 grots (assuming you don't want any boyz) only cost 270 points, and they are great for board control, screening, holding objectives and grot shields.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 00:11:00


Post by: gungo


 BaconCatBug wrote:
BAN wrote:
Shiny gubbins question... is it worth a command point to take super cybork on my defftrike warlord (have relic klaw on a Warboss on bike)
I have already spent a cp to make a warphead and orks are very cp thirsty.
If you don't have at least 18 CP as Orks you're doing it wrong.

It’s basically the only decent relic except this new one to take on him.
1 cp relic is a great deal since it’s free relic 3cp is not
I generally like the klaw and the choppa but the cybork on trike is good or the new trike relic even better.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 02:02:49


Post by: flandarz


I'm a fan of Da Lucky Stikk, but I understand not everyone likes Goffs like I do.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 06:08:30


Post by: Jidmah


 BaconCatBug wrote:
You either take 3 battalions or a Brigade+Battalion. Orks NEED their stratagems to be competitive, period. Thus to be competitive you need to maximize your CP. You aren't going to fit 3 Brigades into the de facto standard 2000 points list, so you take 3 Battalions for 18 CP or a Brigade+Battalion for 20 CP.


What data are you basing this on? To battalions plus one 1CP detachment are still plenty of CP for most things.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 07:36:08


Post by: addnid


the_scotsman wrote:
addnid wrote:
Mek guns are also harder to kill than a grot, but that doesn't make them hard to kill. Having all six wounds condensed into a single T5 5+ body make them extremely susceptible to all sorts of guns that would only kill a single grot (dissies, plasma, rokkits, lascannons, etc.) while still being quite vulnerable to small arms fire. Obviously you'd never want to be shooting plasma at grots, but mek guns are a perfectly good target, doubly so for mid-range weapons.

And again, a handful of flankers can effectively remove multiple mek guns from the game, as those grot attacks aren't threatening anything, and even if the flankers never kill the guns, they're just going to keep re-charging the turn after the guns fall back, preventing them from ever firing again.


The worst is the riptide gatling, which can delete 2 mek gunz (9 hits, 6 wounds = 6*2 dmg = 2 mek gunz dead) out of KFF or cover, without even a single marker light being needed. Forsmasha gunz its ok they are so cheap. For other variants, well talk about a hard counter...
All the more reason to KFF all non-smasha mek gunz (when facing tau at least)


How does a single gun kill two separate units?


Ah I forgot the Grot Krew rule making the unit split into individual models upon being set on the table. My bad ! These things are really crazy good (though they could cost you dearly regarding Kill Points I guess)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 07:55:32


Post by: hollow one


 Jidmah wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You either take 3 battalions or a Brigade+Battalion. Orks NEED their stratagems to be competitive, period. Thus to be competitive you need to maximize your CP. You aren't going to fit 3 Brigades into the de facto standard 2000 points list, so you take 3 Battalions for 18 CP or a Brigade+Battalion for 20 CP.


What data are you basing this on? To battalions plus one 1CP detachment are still plenty of CP for most things.
I agree with you here, there is so much experimentation left to be done, for anyone to think they have solved anything re: meta orks is ridiculous and dishonest.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 08:04:36


Post by: Blackie


 flandarz wrote:
I'm a fan of Da Lucky Stikk, but I understand not everyone likes Goffs like I do.


I'm also a fan of Goffs and play a lot with their kultur but Da Lucky Stikk is quite bland IMHO. Da Killa Klaw is too powerful to avoid and allows the warboss to hit on 2s re-rolling wounds so Da Lucky Stikk isn't going to buff a lot of dudes, it works only for characters sadly and spamming melee characters is certainly a huge tax. Ghaz hits on 2s as well and with Fist of Gorks is going to wound everything on 2s as well. Even if I go with a second relic I'd take something else.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 08:19:34


Post by: Weazel


 Jidmah wrote:
I really see no competitive reason to drop a bonebreaka out of the sky. If you want fighty, bring a gorkanaut or dreads. The bonebreak is closed, so passengers really don't matter - so if you want to deep strike one best just fill it with boyz so it's not a huge loss when they get surrounded. A battlewagon with deff rolla is 3" wide and ~7" long, so even if your opponent puts it in a perfect donut of models, you will still be able to deploy 5-6 25mm models. Any 32mm models (or larger) will die.


Umm, you have to disembark before removing the destroyed model. So if a vehicle is completely surrounded and is destroyed you'll lose all the passengers no matter what base they're on. E: Could be that I am remembering this wrong or have missed a FAQ.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 08:28:02


Post by: tneva82


 Weazel wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
I really see no competitive reason to drop a bonebreaka out of the sky. If you want fighty, bring a gorkanaut or dreads. The bonebreak is closed, so passengers really don't matter - so if you want to deep strike one best just fill it with boyz so it's not a huge loss when they get surrounded. A battlewagon with deff rolla is 3" wide and ~7" long, so even if your opponent puts it in a perfect donut of models, you will still be able to deploy 5-6 25mm models. Any 32mm models (or larger) will die.


Umm, you have to disembark before removing the destroyed model. So if a vehicle is completely surrounded and is destroyed you'll lose all the passengers no matter what base they're on. E: Could be that I am remembering this wrong or have missed a FAQ.


No you are right. Rulebook clearly states disembark is first. Which is why i hate deep striking transport with expensive choppy passengers.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 08:34:21


Post by: Jidmah


Ah, no you are right. Mindest stuck in 5th edition once again.

I have yet to actually get a battlewagon surrounded and killed, either my opponent can't bring enough models close (for example, a single unit of ynnari shining spears, harlequins or a terminator squad can't surround it), or he fails to kill it as the vast majority of models wound it on sixes of fives (even dual talon princes) or I pull counter-attack for 2CP and roll half the surrounding models to death.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 09:00:35


Post by: BAN


 BaconCatBug wrote:
BAN wrote:
Shiny gubbins question... is it worth a command point to take super cybork on my defftrike warlord (have relic klaw on a Warboss on bike)
I have already spent a cp to make a warphead and orks are very cp thirsty.
If you don't have at least 18 CP as Orks you're doing it wrong.


It’s a 1750pt list with 2 battalions, sorry should have said


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [32 PL, 656pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 79pts]: Choppa, Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump, 4. Fists of Gork, Warphead (1 CP)

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Heavy Support +

Lootas [13 PL, 255pts]: 15x Loota

Lootas [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Loota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [55 PL, 1094pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP): 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins (1 CP)

+ HQ +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]: Butal but Kunnin, Snagga Klaw, Super Cybork Body, Warlord

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 101pts]: Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 215pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Fast Attack +

Stormboyz [14 PL, 275pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Stormboy

Stormboyz [5 PL, 95pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Stormboy

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [12 PL, 228pts]
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

++ Total: [87 PL, 1750pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 09:19:04


Post by: hortsmann


With only 13 CP and the lootas, I'd say you can't afford extra relics. The lootas will take 1 to mob up, and then 3-6 / turn. You also probably want to use stuff like "get stuck in", "ork is never beaten", "force field projekta" or "unstoppable green tide". So CP are, in my opinion, worth more than a relic in your list.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 09:30:18


Post by: PiñaColada


Played the first leg of a little mini-tournament yesterday. This was at 500 points, that later escalates to 750 and then 1k.

My army list was:

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Orks) [25 PL, 498pts] ++

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

+ HQ +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]: Butal but Kunnin, Super Cybork Body, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Kustom Boosta Blastas [5 PL, 100pts]: Kustom Boosta Blastas

Shokkjump Dragstas [6 PL, 120pts]
. Shokkjump Dragstas: Rokkit Launcha

Warbikers [4 PL, 84pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Killsaw, Stikkbombs
. 2x Warbiker: 2x Stikkbombs

Warbikers [4 PL, 74pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbombs
. 2x Warbiker: 2x Stikkbombs

++ Total: [25 PL, 498pts] ++

I played 2 games, against Dark Eldar & Dark Angels. Won both by tabling, man people were not ready for the speed that came at them. I could T1 charge basically with whatever I wanted to so the amount of damage dealt T1 was nigh impossible for the opponents to come back from. Now, I don't think the list scales that well when going up in points but I really did like the fact that a fluffy list played as it should felt powerful.

Obviously being CP destitute sucked and no obsec or going up ruins. We played (randomized) on a forest table with only a few ruin pieces so that helped me.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 11:29:20


Post by: SemperMortis


 hollow one wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You either take 3 battalions or a Brigade+Battalion. Orks NEED their stratagems to be competitive, period. Thus to be competitive you need to maximize your CP. You aren't going to fit 3 Brigades into the de facto standard 2000 points list, so you take 3 Battalions for 18 CP or a Brigade+Battalion for 20 CP.


What data are you basing this on? To battalions plus one 1CP detachment are still plenty of CP for most things.
I agree with you here, there is so much experimentation left to be done, for anyone to think they have solved anything re: meta orks is ridiculous and dishonest.


I disagree about it being too soon. Realistically nothing changed in the Codex from the Index as far as units are concerned. Basically we just got some fresh paint (Klan Kultures) and gimmicks (Stratagems). So if a unit was trash before hand (Lootas) they will continue to be trash unless they are heavily buffed by either Kulture or Strats. In the case of the lootas...well they didn't get a big boost from Kulture so they rely on strats to hold them up. So with that in mind you then look at what is the best strats to use on them and you quickly realize that for them to be optimal, they are going to be spending at least 3 CP a turn on them, not including Mob up or other buffs you can give them.

So if you aren't taking 18CP or more you are going to be running out of CP by the end of turn 2.

But, that all depends on whether or not your are playing a competitive game or a fun game. If its a fun game it might be better to just smash CP into one or two units and run rampant for a turn or two.

For me, my area is very competitive with a lot of net lists and a lot of power gaming, I have been bringing almost exclusively Speed Freakz in an Evil Sunz army and relying on massive turn 2 Deep striking teamed with bum rushing fast units turn 1 to win games. It is rather satisfying to watch people realize that 24 inches wasn't far enough back from my Warbikerz And on turn 2 watching them get even more surprised when half my army appears within 8' charge range


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 11:55:44


Post by: Blackie


SemperMortis wrote:
 hollow one wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
You either take 3 battalions or a Brigade+Battalion. Orks NEED their stratagems to be competitive, period. Thus to be competitive you need to maximize your CP. You aren't going to fit 3 Brigades into the de facto standard 2000 points list, so you take 3 Battalions for 18 CP or a Brigade+Battalion for 20 CP.


What data are you basing this on? To battalions plus one 1CP detachment are still plenty of CP for most things.
I agree with you here, there is so much experimentation left to be done, for anyone to think they have solved anything re: meta orks is ridiculous and dishonest.


I disagree about it being too soon. Realistically nothing changed in the Codex from the Index as far as units are concerned. Basically we just got some fresh paint (Klan Kultures) and gimmicks (Stratagems). So if a unit was trash before hand (Lootas) they will continue to be trash unless they are heavily buffed by either Kulture or Strats. In the case of the lootas...well they didn't get a big boost from Kulture so they rely on strats to hold them up.


I think this is true for all the codexes not just the orks one. Take the drukhari book: there aren't many changes in the units' profiles from the index but the army went from trash tier to top tier. This is ONLY due to points reductions, chapters bonuses, relics and stratagems, nothing else. If you play drukhari without their chapter bonuses, strategems and relics they suck as hell, more than orks and yet a lot of competitive players freak out about them demanding huge (undeserved) nerfs for that army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:
So with that in mind you then look at what is the best strats to use on them and you quickly realize that for them to be optimal, they are going to be spending at least 3 CP a turn on them, not including Mob up or other buffs you can give them.

So if you aren't taking 18CP or more you are going to be running out of CP by the end of turn 2.


To be optimal you should invest 5-6 CPs per turn on lootas. Mob Up, More Dakka, Showing Off and probably a re-roll on the number of shots since on 2 rolls you may easily get a 1 or 2 on that D3. Grot Shields in the opponent turn. So usually 12-13 CPs for two turns of shooting but it's not an issue since very competitive games are usually over at the at top of turn 2 or 3 at most.

In a more relaxed meta, but still semi-competitive at least, 15 lootas with just Showing Off and Grot Shields are already good enough to see many tables for an average of 7-8 CPs in the first two rounds of shooting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 12:02:30


Post by: Rismonite


You'll probably want to Tellyport two or three units (4-6 CP)
You'll probably want a Warphead or two (1-2 CP)
You'll probably want an Extra Shiny Gubbinz (1CP)

Turn one you'll likely want to mob up some Lootas (1CP)
You'll likely want to use Moar Dakka and Showin Off! (4CP)
If you didn't go first you'll want Prepared Positions (2 CP) and Grot Shields (1 CP)

So that's 14-17 CP. That's not using wreckerz turn one, that's not using "Get stuck in Ladz", "Orkz is neva defeated", or "Endless Green Tide". It is entirely possible to blow through 18 CP by the end of turn one and not really feel like you wasted a single point.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 12:11:44


Post by: flandarz


 Blackie wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
I'm a fan of Da Lucky Stikk, but I understand not everyone likes Goffs like I do.


I'm also a fan of Goffs and play a lot with their kultur but Da Lucky Stikk is quite bland IMHO. Da Killa Klaw is too powerful to avoid and allows the warboss to hit on 2s re-rolling wounds so Da Lucky Stikk isn't going to buff a lot of dudes, it works only for characters sadly and spamming melee characters is certainly a huge tax. Ghaz hits on 2s as well and with Fist of Gorks is going to wound everything on 2s as well. Even if I go with a second relic I'd take something else.


Damn. You're right. I thought it was a Banner Nob aura, that snagged everyone. Lame.

Even so, the difference between a Warboss with a Lucky Stikk and a Warboss with a Killa Klaw is this: Lucky Stikk Boss rerolls 1s (dude is hitting in 2s with his Power Klaw because of Stikk Aura) gives other Characters within 6" a +1 to hit, and deals a d3 damage, instead of a flat 3. Both of them reroll wounding, so, in the end, the only real benefit you're getting from the Klaw instead of the Stikk is the flat damage.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 12:16:03


Post by: Blackie


 Rismonite wrote:
You'll probably want to Tellyport two or three units (4-6 CP)
You'll probably want a Warphead or two (1-2 CP)
You'll probably want an Extra Shiny Gubbinz (1CP)

Turn one you'll likely want to mob up some Lootas (1CP)
You'll likely want to use Moar Dakka and Showin Off! (4CP)
If you didn't go first you'll want Prepared Positions (2 CP) and Grot Shields (1 CP)

So that's 14-17 CP. That's not using wreckerz turn one, that's not using "Get stuck in Ladz", "Orkz is neva defeated", or "Endless Green Tide". It is entirely possible to blow through 18 CP by the end of turn one and not really feel like you wasted a single point.


Nah, you chose one tactic or another, which determines what stratagems do you need and in what number. The lootas combo works on its own, you just need to field a lot of boyz, gretchins and characters to give them target saturation. Maybe just invest 2CPs for tellyporta, and all the other CPs are ok on the lootas.

Prepared positions is completely useless in a green tide, which is the most effective way to field those 25 lootas. No extra relics really required. No need of the warphead either since three battallions means basically 3 weirdboyz and only one power (da jump) is really recommended for that type of list. Wreckers also useless, if you shoot with tons of buffed lootas you already got all the shooting you need. Maybe just the endless green tide could be helpful but most of the games are over after 2 turns of shooting of those super buffed lootas. It's not easy to deal with 90 evil sunz boyz under the KFF bubble if you also need to clear tons of gretchins in order to get the lootas. When I played it, full green tide with 3 battallions, I usually had 4-5 spared CPs for endless green tide or to invest in a third round of shooting. Endless green tide is also not easy to get since a mob can be just lowered in its number but not enough to invest 3 CPs or completely shot off the table.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 12:50:43


Post by: greggles


You either take 3 battalions or a Brigade+Battalion.


I've noticed in an attempt to curtail soup armies, many events are now restricting to 2 or 1 detachment. I usually play at nova and adepticon, and many of the non GT events have restricted detachment amounts. So the last event I played at, and the next two only allow a single detachment.

Always check with your TO's before going nuts on list building. Nothing like making up a sweet 3 bat list and finding out you can't run it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 13:35:21


Post by: Rismonite


 Blackie wrote:
 Rismonite wrote:
You'll probably want to Tellyport two or three units (4-6 CP)
You'll probably want a Warphead or two (1-2 CP)
You'll probably want an Extra Shiny Gubbinz (1CP)

Turn one you'll likely want to mob up some Lootas (1CP)
You'll likely want to use Moar Dakka and Showin Off! (4CP)
If you didn't go first you'll want Prepared Positions (2 CP) and Grot Shields (1 CP)

So that's 14-17 CP. That's not using wreckerz turn one, that's not using "Get stuck in Ladz", "Orkz is neva defeated", or "Endless Green Tide". It is entirely possible to blow through 18 CP by the end of turn one and not really feel like you wasted a single point.


Nah, you chose one tactic or another, which determines what stratagems do you need and in what number. The lootas combo works on its own, you just need to field a lot of boyz, gretchins and characters to give them target saturation. Maybe just invest 2CPs for tellyporta, and all the other CPs are ok on the lootas.

Prepared positions is completely useless in a green tide, which is the most effective way to field those 25 lootas. No extra relics really required. No need of the warphead either since three battallions means basically 3 weirdboyz and only one power (da jump) is really recommended for that type of list. Wreckers also useless, if you shoot with tons of buffed lootas you already got all the shooting you need. Maybe just the endless green tide could be helpful but most of the games are over after 2 turns of shooting of those super buffed lootas. It's not easy to deal with 90 evil sunz boyz under the KFF bubble if you also need to clear tons of gretchins in order to get the lootas. When I played it, full green tide with 3 battallions, I usually had 4-5 spared CPs for endless green tide or to invest in a third round of shooting. Endless green tide is also not easy to get since a mob can be just lowered in its number but not enough to invest 3 CPs or completely shot off the table.


Blackie with just a Looota bomb, we can hand out soo many dice on two targets. Why not spend the CP to help synergize/tellyport some gitz in the hole the Lootas left? Between turn one and two, it just seems 'must take' to bring a turn 2 deep strike to stand in what your Lootas cleared. I think you were saying "no need to utilized both playstyles, that is spread too thin." but it seems 3xbattalion fits inside 2000 points and can freely fit the Loota bomb and one and maybe twoish tellyport components.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 13:48:00


Post by: Glitcha


I must be doing it wrong. I usually have 0 cp when i play. I spend them all before the game begins. lol

In other news, my nobz list has claimed its first victory. The main issue i ran into was my lack of anti armor for range. I need to find away to add more of that to my list. Overal I am happy with how the list played.

See Spolier:
Spoiler:
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Orks) [89 PL, 1300pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP): 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins (1 CP)

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, 4. Fists of Gork, Scorched Gitbonez, Warphead (1 CP)

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump, 5. Da Krunch, Warphead (1 CP)

+ Elites +

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota

Nobz [14 PL, 165pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)
. Nob: Choppa, Kustom Shoota (Index)

Nobz [14 PL, 163pts]
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Killsaw
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Slugga

Nobz [14 PL, 163pts]
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Killsaw
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa

Nobz [14 PL, 163pts]
. Boss Nob: Killsaw, Killsaw
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa

Nobz on Warbikes [7 PL, 127pts]
. Boss Nob on Warbike: Power Klaw, Shoota (Index), Stikkbombs
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbombs
. Nob on Warbike: Choppa, Choppa, Stikkbombs

+ Heavy Support +

Mek Gunz [4 PL, 62pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [36 PL, 698pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Follow me Ladz!, Kustom Force Field, Warlord

Warboss in Mega Armour (index) [7 PL, 122pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Meganobz [10 PL, 183pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

Painboy [3 PL, 65pts]: Power Klaw

+ Heavy Support +

Battlewagon [8 PL, 163pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla, 2x Rokkit Launcha (Index)

++ Total: [125 PL, 1998pts] ++


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 13:50:16


Post by: Kebabcito


I usually use my CP in tellyporta, endless greentide, more dakka and the one for deathskulls to reroll misses in wounds


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 14:03:01


Post by: greggles


Glitcha,
Maybe drop a few nobz and take some more smasha guns? That is probably the easiest solution. Since you are death skulls, I'd drop the killa saw and take a PK. (You can reroll the damage result).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 14:11:03


Post by: Glitcha


 greggles wrote:
Glitcha,
Maybe drop a few nobz and take some more smasha guns? That is probably the easiest solution. Since you are death skulls, I'd drop the killa saw and take a PK. (You can reroll the damage result).


The only reason I chose deathskulls was to give me objective secure on the nobz and the 6++. I'm okay with not getting the reroll dmg. Reroll to hit and reroll to wound is enough for me.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 14:20:27


Post by: greggles


Figured, was trying to find you some easy points for more smasha guns


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 14:26:11


Post by: Glitcha


 greggles wrote:
Figured, was trying to find you some easy points for more smasha guns


Thanks, too bad they dont get klan traits. Might need to find something else that does get klan traits.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 14:29:39


Post by: Blackie


 Rismonite wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 Rismonite wrote:
You'll probably want to Tellyport two or three units (4-6 CP)
You'll probably want a Warphead or two (1-2 CP)
You'll probably want an Extra Shiny Gubbinz (1CP)

Turn one you'll likely want to mob up some Lootas (1CP)
You'll likely want to use Moar Dakka and Showin Off! (4CP)
If you didn't go first you'll want Prepared Positions (2 CP) and Grot Shields (1 CP)

So that's 14-17 CP. That's not using wreckerz turn one, that's not using "Get stuck in Ladz", "Orkz is neva defeated", or "Endless Green Tide". It is entirely possible to blow through 18 CP by the end of turn one and not really feel like you wasted a single point.


Nah, you chose one tactic or another, which determines what stratagems do you need and in what number. The lootas combo works on its own, you just need to field a lot of boyz, gretchins and characters to give them target saturation. Maybe just invest 2CPs for tellyporta, and all the other CPs are ok on the lootas.

Prepared positions is completely useless in a green tide, which is the most effective way to field those 25 lootas. No extra relics really required. No need of the warphead either since three battallions means basically 3 weirdboyz and only one power (da jump) is really recommended for that type of list. Wreckers also useless, if you shoot with tons of buffed lootas you already got all the shooting you need. Maybe just the endless green tide could be helpful but most of the games are over after 2 turns of shooting of those super buffed lootas. It's not easy to deal with 90 evil sunz boyz under the KFF bubble if you also need to clear tons of gretchins in order to get the lootas. When I played it, full green tide with 3 battallions, I usually had 4-5 spared CPs for endless green tide or to invest in a third round of shooting. Endless green tide is also not easy to get since a mob can be just lowered in its number but not enough to invest 3 CPs or completely shot off the table.


Blackie with just a Looota bomb, we can hand out soo many dice on two targets. Why not spend the CP to help synergize/tellyport some gitz in the hole the Lootas left? Between turn one and two, it just seems 'must take' to bring a turn 2 deep strike to stand in what your Lootas cleared. I think you were saying "no need to utilized both playstyles, that is spread too thin." but it seems 3xbattalion fits inside 2000 points and can freely fit the Loota bomb and one and maybe twoish tellyport components.


2 targets per turn means four big targets dead or highly damaged in two turns. You can also declare split fire and target multiple units before rolling to hit. Let the boyz do the rest.

If you want more shooting a few mek gunz can fit as well since they're quite cheap. In the list I've tried I had 3 evil sunz deff dreads or 9 meganobz delivered by tellyporta. Of course you can make use of both playtests but the lootas bomb absorb a huge amount of CPs and I wouldn't field other untis that are CPs hungry as well. A single tellyported unit should be enough, you already have the weirdboy that can da jump stuff in turns 2+. But of course as long as you have the CPs all kind of tactics are legit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 15:32:36


Post by: PiñaColada


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-imperial-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

The "Field Commander" we could potentially get some mileage out of.. Depends on what the new traits are I suppose


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 16:45:37


Post by: greggles


Thanks, too bad they dont get klan traits. Might need to find something else that does get klan traits.


Aye, but d3 shots with dakka dakka still outputs some horrific damage at 48 inches. Can you imagine how broken they'd be if you could take death skulls with them?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 16:59:20


Post by: gungo


 greggles wrote:
Thanks, too bad they dont get klan traits. Might need to find something else that does get klan traits.


Aye, but d3 shots with dakka dakka still outputs some horrific damage at 48 inches. Can you imagine how broken they'd be if you could take death skulls with them?

Ya men guns are definitely balanced around no traits. Probably a bit to good on some.
Gretchin are balanced for no traits.
Killa kans on the other hand just appear to be forgotten. They needed to be substantially cheaper and/or increased BS to 3+ maybe even make killakans special just allow them to have +1 atk next to another kan..


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 18:42:38


Post by: Castozor


I think upping Killa Kans to at least WS4+ might be nice. They have a decent number of attacks already and got a 10 point drop from the index but ws5+ is just terrible.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 19:51:10


Post by: Kebabcito


Played against ultramarines today, my resume with bad english.

- First turn for marines, shooting ma boyz and nobz, my nobz protect themselves with gretchlins, as a result, my gretchlin unit dies and some boyz dies.

- My turn, I DaJump 10 nobz with choppas and big choppas into the predator and space marines, THEY FAIL THE CHARGE, ROFL. My boyz shoot but don't really do any kind of damage, my 3 deffkoptas shoot into the Dreadnought and oneshot him with the rockets, so this turn the only thing I did was killing the dreadnought.

- Ultramarines second turn, a lot of dakka into my boyz. he does a very bad focus and he leaves 13 boyz alive from the starter 30, my nobz (the ones who failed the charge) gets demolished, he destroys one deffkopta.

- My second turn, I go Endless Greentide, (his face is like WTF?) I jump into the marines, I destroy a lot of his army, my deffkoptas shoot his predator, make some wounds.

- His third turn, more dakka into boyz.

_ My third turn, I charge with everything and destroy his army, he have a predator and some marines left, finish 10-4


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 20:31:36


Post by: Vineheart01


Upping kanz WS to 4+ would be disgusting imo but probably not broken by any means.
I'd rather them get better guns since thats kinda the point of them, they hit on 4s in shooting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 21:04:27


Post by: Castozor


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Upping kanz WS to 4+ would be disgusting imo but probably not broken by any means.
I'd rather them get better guns since thats kinda the point of them, they hit on 4s in shooting.

Yes and no in my opinion. They might seem shooty focused but that's because regular ork shooting is "terrible" barring some klan traits and because the kanz own WS is terrible in return. At the end of the day I'm paying a lot of points for 1 rockit a kan per turn. Seeing that they get a bonus to attacks for larger squads and a decent amount of base attacks I rather they be at least half way decent at melee. Obviously that's just my personal opinion and I can see the case for making them more of a shooty unit but I think we can all agree they need something to not be overshadowed by better options. I just thought ws4+ (maybe even with a slight increase in points) would be a good way to give them the edge they need. But I guess we have to wait and see if the Dread Waagh makes them useful. I'm hoping yes but I'm sitting this one out before I buy more kanz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/06 22:19:51


Post by: Grimskul


Yeah, I feel making them 4+ WS base to show them being better than the weedy grotz they used to be would be a decent way to make up for their lack of klan traits. That or change Skrag 'Em to a variant of Surprisingly Dangerous in Large Numbers to give them +1 to hit for both shooting and cc when their unit size is 3 or more. This way you have incentive for taking larger units, while benefiting from doing so.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 00:37:19


Post by: greggles


I don't understand why they have morale period. They're grots that have been given the ultimate upgrade. They're basically super duper grots. Make killa kans immune to morale because the gretchin inside are absolutely insane. (That would go a long way to helping them out)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 01:04:09


Post by: SemperMortis


 greggles wrote:
I don't understand why they have morale period. They're grots that have been given the ultimate upgrade. They're basically super duper grots. Make killa kans immune to morale because the gretchin inside are absolutely insane. (That would go a long way to helping them out)


And that right there my friend is the biggest reason I will not field Kanz in 8th edition in actual numbers. LD 6! If you take a big squad of 6 and you lose 3 (God forbid) you have a 50% chance of losing another 1 or if you role horrendous you could theoretically lose the entire squad. No thanks. This is just another great example of GW not being able to correctly balance cost/risk with benefit. They cost too much for the benefits they give and their risk is too high.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 01:25:22


Post by: Quackzo


Honestly don't think changing the WS on Killa Kans will be the fix they need. After playing a few games with them, they definitely compensate for that WS5+ via the volume of attacks they can get. Morale is trash but at least you can work around that.

Their real downside is their lack of mobility. Every game I've played with them has been them crawling from my deployment towards objectives, and maybe getting a charge off on turn 3, this is including advances. They do have a lot of potential when they get into melee but their inability to consistently get into melee is holding them down.
They have too much competition from Meganobz, Deff Dreads, Nauts, and Bonebreakas, which can all reach their targets on turn 2 and sometimes turn 1.

On the upside, they're surprisingly tanky for their cost. So at the very least they could firmly hold objectives.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 02:02:27


Post by: Grimskul


 Quackzo wrote:
Honestly don't think changing the WS on Killa Kans will be the fix they need. After playing a few games with them, they definitely compensate for that WS5+ via the volume of attacks they can get. Morale is trash but at least you can work around that.

Their real downside is their lack of mobility. Every game I've played with them has been them crawling from my deployment towards objectives, and maybe getting a charge off on turn 3, this is including advances. They do have a lot of potential when they get into melee but their inability to consistently get into melee is holding them down.
They have too much competition from Meganobz, Deff Dreads, Nauts, and Bonebreakas, which can all reach their targets on turn 2 and sometimes turn 1.

On the upside, they're surprisingly tanky for their cost. So at the very least they could firmly hold objectives.


I'm not entirely sure mobility is their main issue, with deffkilla wartrikes allowing them to advance and charge. I do partially agree in the sense that I feel they should be allowed to tellyport onto the field. It really is a mixture of being vulnerable to morale and everything else in the codex getting better meaning that they effectively got worse.

Personally, I wish grotzookas got changed back to assault, and if it had at least AP-1, it would be something that might be considered rather than completely ignored.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 03:28:11


Post by: flandarz


I wish we could swap the CC weapon with another gun. They're basically mobile weapons platforms and would be much more suited for double gunning then having any melee weapon. Just give them a couple Assault Guns with a decent range and it don't matter if they move slow as dirt or have bad morale.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 03:42:28


Post by: Grimskul


 flandarz wrote:
I wish we could swap the CC weapon with another gun. They're basically mobile weapons platforms and would be much more suited for double gunning then having any melee weapon. Just give them a couple Assault Guns with a decent range and it don't matter if they move slow as dirt or have bad morale.


I'd just be happy seeing their baseline weapons be double the shots, their rokkit launcha arm could easily count as a "Rokkit Rack" or Twin Rokkit Launchas, same with the Big Shoota. Even just having a stratagem for 1 CP for Kanz firing twice would be great, kinda like a Killan Kan Fire Frenzy equivalent.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 05:09:01


Post by: v0iddrgn


Can't their WS get buffed with Banner Nob if you really wanted?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 05:18:38


Post by: Grimskul


v0iddrgn wrote:
Can't their WS get buffed with Banner Nob if you really wanted?


Yeah, but that's 77 points just to make them fight semi-competently, which just adds more to the issue that they rely on too many other units to prop up, unlike our other Walker units.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 07:52:15


Post by: hollow one


SemperMortis wrote:
I disagree about it being too soon. Realistically nothing changed in the Codex from the Index as far as units are concerned. Basically we just got some fresh paint (Klan Kultures) and gimmicks (Stratagems). So if a unit was trash before hand (Lootas) they will continue to be trash unless they are heavily buffed by either Kulture or Strats. In the case of the lootas...well they didn't get a big boost from Kulture so they rely on strats to hold them up. So with that in mind you then look at what is the best strats to use on them and you quickly realize that for them to be optimal, they are going to be spending at least 3 CP a turn on them, not including Mob up or other buffs you can give them.

So if you aren't taking 18CP or more you are going to be running out of CP by the end of turn 2.

But, that all depends on whether or not your are playing a competitive game or a fun game. If its a fun game it might be better to just smash CP into one or two units and run rampant for a turn or two.

For me, my area is very competitive with a lot of net lists and a lot of power gaming, I have been bringing almost exclusively Speed Freakz in an Evil Sunz army and relying on massive turn 2 Deep striking teamed with bum rushing fast units turn 1 to win games. It is rather satisfying to watch people realize that 24 inches wasn't far enough back from my Warbikerz And on turn 2 watching them get even more surprised when half my army appears within 8' charge range
We disagree again, and once again it's over the fact that you undervalue stratagems/relics/traits/tactics. That's all that matters when they give you a new codex mate, that's all that anyone really gets.

Stratagems/relics/traits/tactics are the reason the Castellan is outrageous. 3++ (relic and stratagem) and rerroll all 1s (stratagem thanks to chapter tactic) makes this unit unbeatable in efficiency, and it costs a lot of CP. Still considered absolutely top tier, because it is.... it's top tier. Just like Lootas.

Stratagems/relics/traits/tactics are the reason blood angel captains were too dominant. 3d6 charge, +d3 attacks, not suffering overwatch, and 4dmg weapon. None of that gak is on the data slate mate.

All the things that are borderline broken, are thanks to one of these bells and whistles working with a synergy. Shining spears advance and charge + soulburst, genestealers super speed clan tactic, razorwing jet fighters at -2 to hit, dark reapers fire and fade, cultists tide of traitors and double shoot, tzangoors dark matter crystal movement, lootas more dakka/showin off/grot shields, dude I can go on and on. Name me a unit people complain about and I'll tell you the stratagem that makes them broken. And the only thing that breaks that rule, are things like the loyal 32, because they enable more CP to do more broken things. It's always been about the tricks man, the data slate is important sure, but its the tricks that make units broken.

Stratagems are the codex. There is NO dice to make them work, it's the first thing you read when you open a codex, and they are the tools you use to build breakthrough efficiency. To disregard them and build a list without considering the benefit of stratagems is a low-tier-fluffy attitude. Semper, you are and incorrectly undervaluing the efficiency and capacity of our units.

Saying that Lootas are only good because of their stratagems and CP cost... is the same as saying Lootas are good... Because Lootas are good. And they only got that way thanks to stratagems and clan tactics.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 08:09:27


Post by: tneva82


 Blackie wrote:

To be optimal you should invest 5-6 CPs per turn on lootas. Mob Up, More Dakka, Showing Off and probably a re-roll on the number of shots since on 2 rolls you may easily get a 1 or 2 on that D3. Grot Shields in the opponent turn. So usually 12-13 CPs for two turns of shooting but it's not an issue since very competitive games are usually over at the at top of turn 2 or 3 at most.

In a more relaxed meta, but still semi-competitive at least, 15 lootas with just Showing Off and Grot Shields are already good enough to see many tables for an average of 7-8 CPs in the first two rounds of shooting.


One roll for lootas if you refer show off. The d3 is for phase so show off you use same value


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 08:20:49


Post by: Kebabcito


What makes a unit good or bad is his cost and his stratagems/tactics/synergy


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 10:12:44


Post by: Glane


 Glitcha wrote:
 greggles wrote:
Figured, was trying to find you some easy points for more smasha guns


Thanks, too bad they dont get klan traits. Might need to find something else that does get klan traits.


Deffkoptas with Kustom Mega Blastas are 39 points a pop and synergise disgustingly well with Deffskulls if you field them as single units. 24" Str 8 Ap-3 D6 dmg on a flying platform that helps to fill out Brigades is ridiculously good when you can reroll to hit, to wound and the damage.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 12:52:53


Post by: the_scotsman


 hollow one wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
I disagree about it being too soon. Realistically nothing changed in the Codex from the Index as far as units are concerned. Basically we just got some fresh paint (Klan Kultures) and gimmicks (Stratagems). So if a unit was trash before hand (Lootas) they will continue to be trash unless they are heavily buffed by either Kulture or Strats. In the case of the lootas...well they didn't get a big boost from Kulture so they rely on strats to hold them up. So with that in mind you then look at what is the best strats to use on them and you quickly realize that for them to be optimal, they are going to be spending at least 3 CP a turn on them, not including Mob up or other buffs you can give them.

So if you aren't taking 18CP or more you are going to be running out of CP by the end of turn 2.

But, that all depends on whether or not your are playing a competitive game or a fun game. If its a fun game it might be better to just smash CP into one or two units and run rampant for a turn or two.

For me, my area is very competitive with a lot of net lists and a lot of power gaming, I have been bringing almost exclusively Speed Freakz in an Evil Sunz army and relying on massive turn 2 Deep striking teamed with bum rushing fast units turn 1 to win games. It is rather satisfying to watch people realize that 24 inches wasn't far enough back from my Warbikerz And on turn 2 watching them get even more surprised when half my army appears within 8' charge range
We disagree again, and once again it's over the fact that you undervalue stratagems/relics/traits/tactics. That's all that matters when they give you a new codex mate, that's all that anyone really gets.

Stratagems/relics/traits/tactics are the reason the Castellan is outrageous. 3++ (relic and stratagem) and rerroll all 1s (stratagem thanks to chapter tactic) makes this unit unbeatable in efficiency, and it costs a lot of CP. Still considered absolutely top tier, because it is.... it's top tier. Just like Lootas.

Stratagems/relics/traits/tactics are the reason blood angel captains were too dominant. 3d6 charge, +d3 attacks, not suffering overwatch, and 4dmg weapon. None of that gak is on the data slate mate.

All the things that are borderline broken, are thanks to one of these bells and whistles working with a synergy. Shining spears advance and charge + soulburst, genestealers super speed clan tactic, razorwing jet fighters at -2 to hit, dark reapers fire and fade, cultists tide of traitors and double shoot, tzangoors dark matter crystal movement, lootas more dakka/showin off/grot shields, dude I can go on and on. Name me a unit people complain about and I'll tell you the stratagem that makes them broken. And the only thing that breaks that rule, are things like the loyal 32, because they enable more CP to do more broken things. It's always been about the tricks man, the data slate is important sure, but its the tricks that make units broken.

Stratagems are the codex. There is NO dice to make them work, it's the first thing you read when you open a codex, and they are the tools you use to build breakthrough efficiency. To disregard them and build a list without considering the benefit of stratagems is a low-tier-fluffy attitude. Semper, you are and incorrectly undervaluing the efficiency and capacity of our units.

Saying that Lootas are only good because of their stratagems and CP cost... is the same as saying Lootas are good... Because Lootas are good. And they only got that way thanks to stratagems and clan tactics.


Also, entirely worth noting here that many units not only changed in terms of stratagems/tactics, but also points costs and rules.

Trakktor kannons - basically a totally different unit now, and AMAZING at their job.

Flash Gitz - got 4+ armor, +1S, and +1D on their weapons

Meganobz - their bodies and every piece of equipment they can be equipped with dropped points, they went from trash to amazing via rules

Wazbom Blastajet - every weapon it has had its damage doubled. Its price went up, everyone raged, then the second they looked at the rules they figured out why.

Not to mention army-wide improvements, like everyone getting better at charging with improved 'ere we go and better at shooting with DDD... this "argument" is goofy. It's basically "argument from Say The Thing That Happened Didnt Happen."


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 13:46:47


Post by: Glitcha


 Glane wrote:
 Glitcha wrote:
 greggles wrote:
Figured, was trying to find you some easy points for more smasha guns


Thanks, too bad they dont get klan traits. Might need to find something else that does get klan traits.


Deffkoptas with Kustom Mega Blastas are 39 points a pop and synergise disgustingly well with Deffskulls if you field them as single units. 24" Str 8 Ap-3 D6 dmg on a flying platform that helps to fill out Brigades is ridiculously good when you can reroll to hit, to wound and the damage.


Because i'm running almost exclusively nobz, i don't really want to waste the points trying to get to a brigade. But i do like the idea of Deffkoptas in the list. I have a soft spot for deffkoptas. I own like 35 of them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 13:49:12


Post by: Blackie


KMKs and KMBs got buffed as well. Battlewagons got the possibility of generating +D6 hit with their rolla if they are Bonebreakas.

We also had 6 new units completely absent in the index.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 14:14:58


Post by: Sluggaloo


Not to mention warbosses as of the codex being really scary for units like the castellan.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 15:46:36


Post by: BaconCatBug


I had a crazy idea to stick 2 warboss in a gorkanaut (the one with more attacks I forget if it'd the gork or not), one with the killa klaw and the brutal trait for 4 damage flat, the other with power klaw and da lukcy stikk to support. Gorkanaut tellyports and ramming speeds turn 2, then turn 3 the warbosses pop out and mop up, or if the gorkanaut dies then it acted as a fire magnet and did it's duty


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 16:57:58


Post by: flandarz


The only issue I see is that it'll be hard to fit "expendable" models in the Gork, for if it gets destroyed before you can disembark. A single unlucky 6 and your tactic goes up in flame.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 18:00:37


Post by: hortsmann


Characters won't be targetable, i don't see the point of waiting 3 turns for them to be able to do anything, and take the risk to be surrounded and killed.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 18:34:29


Post by: lord_blackfang


So Chapter Approved is out. No changes for Forgeworld Orks. None, nada. Big Trakk still more expensive than a BW, etc.

Imperial Guard mooks didn't go up in cost either, after all the assurances from the GW apologists, so we remain the only faction whose core troops went up.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 18:43:11


Post by: PiñaColada


 lord_blackfang wrote:
So Chapter Approved is out. No changes for Forgeworld Orks. None, nada. Big Trakk still more expensive than a BW, etc.

Imperial Guard mooks didn't go up in cost either, after all the assurances from the GW apologists, so we remain the only faction whose core troops went up.

I mean, cultists went up. They are the de facto core troop of any chaos list. But in general, flamers went down making our burnas even less attractive. Powerfist down to 9 so our klaws seem a bit too pricey now. SM/CSM bikers now cost 21 points to our 23 for warbikers..

Overall I see no great worry as of right now, looking at the leaks but those are some of the things that stood out to me


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 19:06:35


Post by: BaconCatBug


Orks will get point changes in the 6 month CA errata most likely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
The only issue I see is that it'll be hard to fit "expendable" models in the Gork, for if it gets destroyed before you can disembark. A single unlucky 6 and your tactic goes up in flame.
Fair enough. I'd either have to take a single warboss and 5 kommandos or stuff some mini-meks in there in case it gets destroyed.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 19:29:47


Post by: Kebabcito


Embarked miniatures in tellyporta is useless imho.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 19:34:57


Post by: flandarz


Kebabcito wrote:
Embarked miniatures in tellyporta is useless imho.


If it's just one unit embarked, then yes. I agree. But if you wanna Tellyport multiple units, putting them into a Transport saves CP.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 20:01:47


Post by: oomiestompa


Is it worth tellyporting shooty units in a BW? Some Flash Gitz or maybe 20 Shoota Boyz?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 20:05:24


Post by: flandarz


I'd say no. In a BW, they got more than enough movement to get into range, and without it you could just Da Jump them where you want them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 20:25:02


Post by: Grimskul


Little bit miffed we're paying 13 points for a power klaw when fists went down to 9 recently, though the P.K. isn't exactly the workhorse of the Ork army anymore thankfully (relics not included) and given our higher base attacks and strength, I still think we pull ahead of the SM competition.

Disappointed they didn't touch any of the Ork FW units, some of them could be touched up. Other than that, I'm very surprised to see that normal guardsmen weren't touched at all while cultists were, and that AFAIK Drukhari were completely omitted in CA.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 20:52:09


Post by: BaconCatBug


It's another example of GW's bizarre thinking that weapons need to cost more on better bodies, despite the whole point is that better bodies cost more.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 21:05:59


Post by: Geemoney


But we also complain that ork play too much for ranged weapons when our BS is so bad......

So maybe orks just overpay for everything...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 21:36:51


Post by: Kebabcito


 oomiestompa wrote:
Is it worth tellyporting shooty units in a BW? Some Flash Gitz or maybe 20 Shoota Boyz?

Why would you lose a turn 1 shooting phase with your flash gitz/tankbustas/anything when they will be inside a BW and they WON'T die?

The reason for embarking units into a tank is to shoot as much as posible without being destroyed,

Tellyporta is a stratagem made for slow units that need to charge and fight, in normal circumstances they wouldn't be able to reach the enemy due to their lack of speed and they would be destroyed early, but this stratagem make that units safe from turn 1 shooting phase and gives them the chance to charge and fight.

I understand if someone put some meganobz inside a Gorkanaut, charges and pay for a stratagem to give meganobz a strike in turn 2, in turn 3 they will disembark in front of the enemy, other than that...



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 23:02:05


Post by: Emicrania


How about tellyporta 6 Killa Kanz????


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 23:03:01


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Emicrania wrote:
How about tellyporta 6 Killa Kanz????
Edit: Derp, you can't because GRETCHIN.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 23:04:02


Post by: Grimskul


 Emicrania wrote:
How about tellyporta 6 Killa Kanz????


You can't sadly. They have the same limitations as grotz in being unaffected by stratagems unless explicitly stated otherwise


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 23:19:11


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Grimskul wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
How about tellyporta 6 Killa Kanz????


You can't sadly. They have the same limitations as grotz in being unaffected by stratagems unless explicitly stated otherwise
Yeah, I wish I could Tellyport me some Grots to screen other units. Have to make do with Da Jump.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 23:23:27


Post by: fe40k


I mean, I knew we weren’t going to be getting any changes in CA, since we were printed too close to its release date, but...

I held hope that there would be some parity in terms of Ork rules/balancing, and other faction balancing; but, nope.

Looks like Orks are the only faction that pay for tactics, traits, and everything else.

On the bright side, -1 to hit armies didn’t get nerfed as far as we can tell, which means the price we pay for DDD is still something useful (overpriced, but, still a benefit...).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 23:25:02


Post by: JimOnMars


Kebabcito wrote:
 oomiestompa wrote:
Is it worth tellyporting shooty units in a BW? Some Flash Gitz or maybe 20 Shoota Boyz?

Why would you lose a turn 1 shooting phase with your flash gitz/tankbustas/anything when they will be inside a BW and they WON'T die?

The reason for embarking units into a tank is to shoot as much as posible without being destroyed,

Tellyporta is a stratagem made for slow units that need to charge and fight, in normal circumstances they wouldn't be able to reach the enemy due to their lack of speed and they would be destroyed early, but this stratagem make that units safe from turn 1 shooting phase and gives them the chance to charge and fight.

I understand if someone put some meganobz inside a Gorkanaut, charges and pay for a stratagem to give meganobz a strike in turn 2, in turn 3 they will disembark in front of the enemy, other than that...

I still go second a lot, and I've had quite a few BWs get popped before I get a turn. Teleporting them at least guarantees one turn of shooting before they die.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/07 23:33:25


Post by: Emicrania


 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
How about tellyporta 6 Killa Kanz????
Edit: Derp, you can't because GRETCHIN.


Another dream shattered.,...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 00:00:57


Post by: Grimskul


 Emicrania wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
How about tellyporta 6 Killa Kanz????
Edit: Derp, you can't because GRETCHIN.


Another dream shattered.,...


Our last hope for Kanz is the Dread WAAAGH! Otherwise they will be in the holding pens for a long time in 8th (or at least the next CA)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 01:02:25


Post by: deffrekka


It's quite easy to see that chapter approved wasn't done with the ork codex in mind and vice versa. Everyone's heavy flamers are 14pts, we pay 17pts. Their powerfists are 8pts, ours are 13pts. Chainfists are 11pts ours are 15pts Storm shields are 2pts and cybork body is 5pts (for a 6+++)

Now i wasn't expecting anything for orkz pts wise in chapter approved but seeing this really annoys me. Quite suddenly it's killed my mood abit for orkz. It just shows that they didn't plan the ork codex in advance to match the changes in chapter approved.

Just comparing the basic troop to a boy and it's quite horrific. Ranger 7pts 4+ 6++ save BS 3 WS 4 6" move and an ok gun. Vanguard 8pts same as above but a -1 to wound aura in CC. Both have good options that aren't expensive anymore.

Kabalites 6pts BS 3 WS 3 5+ 6+++ 7" move and a gun that wounds everything except vehicles on 4s. Gets better as the game progresses and great options.

Cultists now 5pts for BS and WS 4 + a 6" move. Weapons are crap but 2pts cheaper than a boy.

Guardsmen... yeah let's no go there, how did they stay 4pts.

And this reflected with most options now compared to orkz. You can get an armoured sentinel with a missile launcher for 45pts or 44pts with a heavy Flamer, compare that to a killakan with our equivalent options...... for god sake


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 01:12:51


Post by: BaconCatBug


It almost like different armies are good at different things. /s

We'll see in 6 months how orks are fairing and GW will adjust points then.

I agree Guardsmen staying at 4PPM is all sorts of bovine doody,


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 01:19:12


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Yea CA has truly killed my hobby excitement.

Between that, the debacle of 'Orktober' and my current workload I can easily see myself taking a break from hobbying for a bit.

We literally get our codex and new shiny rules a month and a half before every other army in the game gets point reductions . I'm certain it's not an intended bias but the continuous thoughtless actions are becoming ridiculous.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 01:44:46


Post by: deffrekka


 BaconCatBug wrote:
It almost like different armies are good at different things. /s

We'll see in 6 months how orks are fairing and GW will adjust points then.

I agree Guardsmen staying at 4PPM is all sorts of bovine doody,


You say that but what are Orkz good with? There shooting is out done by everyone (except maybe necrons). There close combat is out done by tyranids. Mobility is on par with Tyranids (kraken genestealers) leadership once again beaten by Tyranids. There horde potential is flattened by guardsmen blobs, cultists waves, fire warrior spam, red tides, phalanxes of warriors, masses of kabalites. Our psychic phase is a gimmick compared to eldar, thousand sons and grey knights. Our mechanised lists are beaten by guard, marines and ad mech. Our super heavy is trash tier, even the wraith knight got cheaper.

Orkz have been made into a jack of all trades style army, which is where we suffer as we aren't good at anything in particular and we no longer cost cheaper than our counter parts. We uses to outnumber marines 3 to 1 back in 4th and now we are 2 to 1 and in some cases (like my list) we are outnumber. We don't have any resilience anymore... hell my admech list just got cheaper by 133pts. My orkz from index to codex, went up in cost by about 40pts.

I've had alot of success with my speed freak buggy list but I don't see that anymore, we shouldn't have to wait another 6 months to match everyone else. Orkz should of been done with chapter approved in mind. It seems like orkz are always waiting (orktober dragged, possible 6 month wait for a semi update, etc etc)

I don't see orkz being good at anything, not for a long time. They seem to he a shock attack army if someone doesn't know there gimmicks well.

I'm sorry if this all sounds defeatist but it's literally killing my mojo, I've got a tournament in February and I was going to take my kult of speed list (with vigilus specialist detachments) but I can't see me taking orkz now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If it was me I would of costed things as followed:

Gretchen 2pts (a conscript has 1 better save, strength, tougness, better leadership, double the range and twice the shots at 12" and benefits from more characters in the codex and gets doctrines all for 1pt more)

Ork boy 6pts

Warboss 50pts (he's basically a upgraded ogryn with no way of getting an invun except being a badmoon warlord)

Big mek 40pts

Weirdboy 55pts

Tankbustas 14pts

Lootas 15pts

Burnas 9pts

Warbikes 20pts

Nob bikers 30pts

Trukk 50pts

Deffkopta 20pts

Killa kan 30pts

Battlewagon 100pts

Bone krusha 115pts

Gun wagon 115pts

Kustom mega kannon mek guns 40pts in total for each one as a whole

Dakkajet with all 6 shootas 120pts

Stompa 500/600pts with all its Wargear on

Ghazghkull 200 (Belisarius Cawl is 190pts like really... come on)

Gorkanaut with all it's Wargear about 250pts

Morkanaut with all it's Wargear about 250pts again

Deffdreads are fine I think

Kustom boosta blasta 80pts

Boomdakka snazzwagon 75pts

Megatrakk scrapjet 90pts

Shokkjump dragsta 95pts

Rukkatrukk squigbuggy 80pts (it's trash)

Deffkilla war trike 110pts

That's where I see orkz currently, around 15 - 20% cheaper as a whole


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 02:19:47


Post by: flandarz


Just remember guys, if we weren't complaining about Orkz, other Factions would be.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 02:30:51


Post by: gungo


I’m pretty stoked ork index units were not touched...
Why are you guys complaining?
I fully expected our super competitive units in the index and fw books to be conpletely nerfed.
Zhardsnark, warboss on bike, painboy on bike, kommandos with all the options should have been raised in points...
Be happy people those were nerfs waiting to happen!!!

Does it kinda suck our trakks are kinda overcosted a lil now sure...would it have been nice to get speedfreaks keywords on index bikes sure... but they are still well worth thier points...

I looked over the leaks... orks made out. They further lowered a few wargear items) from chapter approved 2017 like liftadroppa is zero points. so Gratz we did well. Even though not much changed.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 03:35:46


Post by: SemperMortis


yeah, you lost me as soon as similar Space Marine units became cheaper or as expensive as orkz, not to even touch on them having access to cheaper special/heavy weapons and CC weapons.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 03:53:12


Post by: Dr.Duck


Yo do all ork infantry models need to be on 32s? lootas, kommandos, nobs etc?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:
yeah, you lost me as soon as similar Space Marine units became cheaper or as expensive as orkz, not to even touch on them having access to cheaper special/heavy weapons and CC weapons.


Whihc ones?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 04:11:44


Post by: SemperMortis


 Dr.Duck wrote:
Yo do all ork infantry models need to be on 32s? lootas, kommandos, nobs etc?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:
yeah, you lost me as soon as similar Space Marine units became cheaper or as expensive as orkz, not to even touch on them having access to cheaper special/heavy weapons and CC weapons.


Whihc ones?


As an example, A Warbiker costs 21st, a Space Marine Biker costs.....21pts. A PK is more expensive than a PF, a Stormbolter is better than a Kustom Shoota but cost the same, Their Lascannons are now 40pts for twin linked but we still pay 24pts for twin linked Rokkitz. I could keep going on but I am getting annoyed now.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 07:42:29


Post by: Blackie


The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 08:32:00


Post by: tneva82


 Grimskul wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
How about tellyporta 6 Killa Kanz????
Edit: Derp, you can't because GRETCHIN.


Another dream shattered.,...


Our last hope for Kanz is the Dread WAAAGH! Otherwise they will be in the holding pens for a long time in 8th (or at least the next CA)


Was there another walker sounding detachment name? Stompa mob is for super heavy det, ie 3-5 superheavies, so no small walkers.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 08:46:52


Post by: gungo


Ya as expected the stompa detachment is garbage...
Even if it was just a super heavy aux detachment and you only had to pay for 1 stompa and in turn for 5cp could
Give him +1 to hit and wound in combat
A 5+ invul and
Teleport him 9in away
It would still be overpriced!!!

Do we have the leaks for dread mob or speedwagin yet?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 09:34:57


Post by: fe40k


That Stompa detachment confirms GW only plays narrative, where points simply aren’t used.

There’s no way you could actively develop that, and think it’s okay; or worse, worth the paper and ink it’s printed with.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 10:02:04


Post by: Jidmah


 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.


I don't get the rage about this. I wouldn't be caught dead putting a PF on one of my Death Guard champions, while I put them on every single boss nob. Two S8 attacks are no competition to three S10 attacks at all. I don't mind paying 4 additional points.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 11:42:15


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


 Jidmah wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.


I don't get the rage about this. I wouldn't be caught dead putting a PF on one of my Death Guard champions, while I put them on every single boss nob. Two S8 attacks are no competition to three S10 attacks at all. I don't mind paying 4 additional points.


I don't get why people rage about a lot of things on here. I feel great about what we have and have no complaints as we are still light years from where we started this edition. I guess I don't take this game of plastic monsters as seriously as some.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 11:48:50


Post by: hollow one


I agree with you two, the points are in a good spot and the codex is legit amazing. I think it's just the most disgruntled that spend the most time keyboard warrior-ing.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 12:34:20


Post by: Emicrania


The problem is at the core, people instead of competing to be the best version of themselves , they compete to be better than others. Therefore if everything isn't perfectly the same, than GW, your opponent, the world is unfair and everything sucks.
This is a great codex, play what what you like and mix it with what it is top tier, we can´t and should not always win.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 12:35:07


Post by: PiñaColada


Man, the "Charge through 'em" strat from the Kult of speed detachment could be insane! 2CP, consolidate 2d6" instead of 3". That could really surprise a lot of people!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 12:52:01


Post by: GreenTidePackers


Well, all 4 formations are probly not going to see top ork lists. closest one probly being kult of speed.
the WL trait is the trike getting morale immunity 12inches next to WL if the unit advanced. Relic is +1T and 5++ on trike
their strats are move distance doubled instead of advancing
the other is-instead of 3inch consolidate, its 2d6.

dread wagh for big meks, gorks, morks, killa kans, dreads
relic is the souped-up gun already leaked.
2cp shoot twice for a unit
1cp strat for mek workshop, get kustom job on 4+

Blitz brigade for warbosses, battlewagons, gunwagons, bonebreakas
leaked before but WL trait is if WL embarked in transport +1 movement and gains ere we go. reilc is giving the embarked transport and other transports a RR1 aura within 6inches.
1cp opening salvo- first battle round, gunwagon doubles it range
1cp crush em- bonebreaker gets to roll 3d6 pick highest for extra attacks
2cp hold on boys- wholly within 3 inches of battlewagon you can pick up infantry. at the end of movement drop them off wholly within 3, cant move or charge afterwards.

stompa mob just bad and wont see comp play haha.





No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 13:11:05


Post by: crzylgs


1cp strat for mek workshop, get kustom job on 4+

Uuugh :/ Let the Mek Workshop RIP, quit prodding its corpse GW!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 13:19:36


Post by: tneva82


Yep evil sun seems best(no surprise). Bliz being anotger possibility. Rest pretty bad looking.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 13:27:15


Post by: GreenTidePackers


I think the only problem i really have with the direction theyre taking orks is, theyre giving us so many options to be fast. At some point, it gets redundant. Im all for speed, but we dont have many problems getting to something as is. It would be nice to able to play a list that doesn't just auto start with 90 boys and gretchin. I enjoy orks but i wish we had the ability to play with a lot fewer models (competitively). I guess if i dont want to take Adderall before every round in a tournament, i probably have to play something other than orks lmao.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 13:28:29


Post by: PiñaColada


tneva82 wrote:
Yep evil sun seems best(no surprise). Bliz being anotger possibility. Rest pretty bad looking.

I will say that a deffskullz big mek SAG with the souped-up shokka, the warlord trait big killa boss sounds pretty scary. And you have the option to fire twice. Is it worth the CPs? Probably not, but it's fun!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 14:56:03


Post by: Blackie


 Jidmah wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.


I don't get the rage about this. I wouldn't be caught dead putting a PF on one of my Death Guard champions, while I put them on every single boss nob. Two S8 attacks are no competition to three S10 attacks at all. I don't mind paying 4 additional points.


By your logic orks ranged weapons should cost half their points since the platforms have low BS. If a plasma gun is 11, but also if it was 13, what's the appropriate cost of a rokkit launcha? Plasma guns hit on 3s, rokkits on 5s or 4s. PF and PK are exactly the same weapon, the platforms that carries them should have a different cost.

I usually give the PK only to the warboss and only the relic one, sometimes also to the goffs nobz leading boyz because they can trigger extra attacks (and I usually have a banner if I go with goffs), but I know it's not bad and a legit option at 13 points. But for me choppas and big choppas all the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GreenTidePackers wrote:


Blitz brigade for warbosses, battlewagons, gunwagons, bonebreakas
leaked before but WL trait is if WL embarked in transport +1 movement and gains ere we go. reilc is giving the embarked transport and other transports a RR1 aura within 6inches.
1cp opening salvo- first battle round, gunwagon doubles it range
1cp crush em- bonebreaker gets to roll 3d6 pick highest for extra attacks
2cp hold on boys- wholly within 3 inches of battlewagon you can pick up infantry. at the end of movement drop them off wholly within 3, cant move or charge afterwards.


This is going to be fun. I love bringing 3x T8 vehicles, usually with 1-2 footslogging warbosses embarked, I can't stand the wartrike and I prefer going with a different kultur than evil sunz. So the extra movement and 'ere we go on vehicles look very good but also the buff to the bonebreaka is nice.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 16:36:22


Post by: deffrekka


I dont know how good this is but a Bad Moons Dread Waaagh Big Mek with Da Soup'd Up Shokka popping Kustom Ammo and Showin' Off (maybe with Moar Dakka too) to shot 6d6 shots.

I actually think its 8d6 shots... "Kustom Job: This unit can shoot twice this shooting phase with all its ranged weapons."

then...

"Showin' Off: Immediately after resolving a shooting attack with a Bad Moons Infantry unit from your army. This unit can shoot all of its weapons a second time."

so would that be 2d6 shots twice and then all that a second time? You guys be the judge of that.

Then add Big Killa Boss to get +1 to wound vs vehicles and monsters and your reroll 1's to hit. You wouldnt actually need walkers in the army, just him as he qualifies for the Dread Waaagh Detachment .

He is literally 80pts, is a character so cant be targetted unless its snipers (grot shield) or pyschic powers, has a huge 60" range, and is all the anti-tank shooting you need? Saves you points on Lootas and Tankbustas + you can put him on a lofty perch and block off assaulters by hogging the whole terrain piece with grots.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 16:43:39


Post by: tneva82


Typical gw writing style could also be 4d6. Shooting second time twice means shooting 2nd time, not 3rd or 4th. Just like volter knight strategem(6 to hit is 2 hits) with endless fury relic(6 to hit is 2 hits) results in 6 to hit being 2 hits(ie strategem is useless with that relic)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tomorrow competive tournaments listed up. Lots of tau. Plenty eldar. Particularly one with eldar fliers, 3 de fliers and 3 ravager would be bad news seeing de auto kill loota star so at most one round, maybe not shooting twice. One tyranid with bazillion stealer could be trouble if i go second as they get to dz t1 boxing me in(no deep strike evil sun vs that for sure). No space marines or pa of any kind. One knight list.

Humhumhum. I'm underdog for sure


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 18:59:23


Post by: lord_blackfang


1cp to unlock the double SAG seems fine to me, the rest is whatever.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 19:07:05


Post by: SemperMortis


 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.


Don't forget, a lascannon is now 40 for 2 of them. A Rokkit is 12 and 24 for a pair. Lascannon has twice hte range, better AP, better strength and D6 damage and its carried by a BS3 model....but a rokkit costs 3/5th as much but is weaker, half the range less AP and a Flat 3 damage......YAY GW doesn't know how to price anything


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 20:26:59


Post by: BaconCatBug


Flat 3 damage is far superior to D6 damage


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 20:32:31


Post by: JNAProductions


 BaconCatBug wrote:
Flat 3 damage is far superior to D6 damage


Depends. Against Custodes? Yes.
Against Vertus Paaetors? No.
Against Primaris? Barely.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 20:39:32


Post by: Emicrania


 BaconCatBug wrote:
Flat 3 damage is far superior to D6 damage


This. Forever and ever ever ever


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 21:09:40


Post by: fe40k


Flat 3 damage is terrible - it might be better against squads of 3wound models, in which case a 1/2 might cause hits to essentially be lost; but that's not what Tankbustas are shooting at.

d6 = 3.5 average; but it's worse than that.

33% chance for 1/3-2/3rds damage
17% chance for equal damage
50% chance to deal more, or up to double the amount of damage

33% chance to be worse
67% chance to be better, or at least, equal

Tankbustas are hunting the big targets, not the 2/3w models that can be swarmed better by boyz.
And if we're being realistic - Orks are supposed to be the "random" faction, and Space Marines/etc are supposed to be the "reliable" faction. Making Orks d6 rokkits, and SM 3flat damage would make more sense; plus some Ork rokkits are boomier than others.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 21:15:49


Post by: gungo


Just to recap
Chapter approved looted wagon rules and that’s about it
Vigilant book. Some detachments that Aren’t really good...

So I can skip both books and save?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 21:33:51


Post by: PiñaColada


Well in regards to the detachments.

The dread mob has the souped-up shokka, it's solid for 1(or most likely 2)CP. Shooting twice for 2CP might be okay on that SAG or a morkanaut as well.

Skip the stompa mob.

Kult of speed gets 2 good, if situational strats. Doubling your move or consolidating 2d6" could both have good uses in games so paying 1CP to be able to access them might not be abad idea.

The Blitz Brigade has that relic that gives batllewagons/bronebreakas etc reroll 1's in CC within 6" but only if it's on a character currently embarked in one of those transports. The only characters that can join the BB are warbosses, so it seems like it's too many points invested IMO. The "Hold on boyz" strat could be useful to quickly move up a tankbusta mob without advancing them so they can chuck tankbusta bombs. Might be worth trying out.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 21:36:51


Post by: Kaiyanwang


fe40k wrote:

And if we're being realistic - Orks are supposed to be the "random" faction,

Good job - now if a designer reads your post, Rokkits will be errata'ed to d3 (with no SM change).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 21:53:01


Post by: Kebabcito


Played against death guard (again) today, my resume:

- Death guard first turn, moves, kill 8 boyz with boetid flamers, no range for more dakka.
- Orks turn: moves, shoot into the boetids with pistols, tankbustas shoot into the boetids inside battlewagon and made some wounds too, warboss charge like cray into tons of zombies (reason was to catch a objective point), deffkopta reach zombies too. Warboss with fist of gork, killa klaw, Brutal but Kunnin and squigg kill 8 or 9 zombies.

- Death guard second turn: Moves, dakka into boyz, too much gak of psychics, demon prince and boetids are inside some boxes so I cannot charge into them, tons of zombies attack my warboss and he has 1 wound left.
-Orks turn: 30 boyz charge zombies, nobz DaJump behind the enemy line and charge (I wanted to attack from all sides), my tankbustas disembark, I pay for More Dakka, More Stikkbombs and that gak of reroling wounds at vehicles and my tankbustas annihilate 2 boetids, I have tons and tons of bodies and death guard cannot do anything at 1500points to stop me (2x30 boyz, 15 nobz, 10 tankbustas, 10 gretchlin, 3 deffkoptas...). He attack my warboss paying CP, he dies, before dying I pay more CP and he does a final blow, he kills tons of zombies. 30 boyz charge into his HQ and hes full trapped.

- Death guard third turn: 1 daemon prince left, 1 HQ left and 20 zombies, he try to make some victory points knowing he's done.
- Orks turn: I got like 10 more victory points, I have freedom to make all tactical objectives and his HQ is fethed up, before shooting phase, we end the match, end is like 18-4.

If my enemy don't kill enough troops early, I win at round 3 100%, I have tons of melee so I'm quite useless first 2 turns, but after that I can stomp easy


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 21:59:10


Post by: Blackie


 BaconCatBug wrote:
Flat 3 damage is far superior to D6 damage


I basically agree, "far superior" is an hyperbole but I also prefer flat 3 over D6. But S9 is better than S8, AP-3 is better than AP-2 and range 48'' is better than 24''. Heavy vs assault doesn't matter since range 48'' means there's no need of moving at all.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 22:48:17


Post by: Jidmah


 Blackie wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.


I don't get the rage about this. I wouldn't be caught dead putting a PF on one of my Death Guard champions, while I put them on every single boss nob. Two S8 attacks are no competition to three S10 attacks at all. I don't mind paying 4 additional points.


By your logic orks ranged weapons should cost half their points since the platforms have low BS. If a plasma gun is 11, but also if it was 13, what's the appropriate cost of a rokkit launcha? Plasma guns hit on 3s, rokkits on 5s or 4s. PF and PK are exactly the same weapon, the platforms that carries them should have a different cost.

Wrong. By my logic I don't give a feth about what weapons of other codices cost. A PK is a good weapon in the ork codex at 13 points. A PF is a terrible weapon in any marine codex for 8 points. That is all that matters.

And comparing rokkits to plasma? You might as well compare choppas to volcano lances.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/08 23:57:31


Post by: Luke_Prowler


 Jidmah wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.


I don't get the rage about this. I wouldn't be caught dead putting a PF on one of my Death Guard champions, while I put them on every single boss nob. Two S8 attacks are no competition to three S10 attacks at all. I don't mind paying 4 additional points.


By your logic orks ranged weapons should cost half their points since the platforms have low BS. If a plasma gun is 11, but also if it was 13, what's the appropriate cost of a rokkit launcha? Plasma guns hit on 3s, rokkits on 5s or 4s. PF and PK are exactly the same weapon, the platforms that carries them should have a different cost.

Wrong. By my logic I don't give a feth about what weapons of other codices cost. A PK is a good weapon in the ork codex at 13 points. A PF is a terrible weapon in any marine codex for 8 points. That is all that matters.

And comparing rokkits to plasma? You might as well compare choppas to volcano lances.

If Power Klaws are that good, why is no one talking about using them outside of a warboss or MANz? Regular nobs it's been double choppa or big choppa. I know I feel like like a dang fool using them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 00:14:06


Post by: SemperMortis


 Luke_Prowler wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.


I don't get the rage about this. I wouldn't be caught dead putting a PF on one of my Death Guard champions, while I put them on every single boss nob. Two S8 attacks are no competition to three S10 attacks at all. I don't mind paying 4 additional points.


By your logic orks ranged weapons should cost half their points since the platforms have low BS. If a plasma gun is 11, but also if it was 13, what's the appropriate cost of a rokkit launcha? Plasma guns hit on 3s, rokkits on 5s or 4s. PF and PK are exactly the same weapon, the platforms that carries them should have a different cost.

Wrong. By my logic I don't give a feth about what weapons of other codices cost. A PK is a good weapon in the ork codex at 13 points. A PF is a terrible weapon in any marine codex for 8 points. That is all that matters.

And comparing rokkits to plasma? You might as well compare choppas to volcano lances.

If Power Klaws are that good, why is no one talking about using them outside of a warboss or MANz? Regular nobs it's been double choppa or big choppa. I know I feel like like a dang fool using them.


lmao, this sums it up perfectly. Nobody is taking PowerKlaws on anything except Warbosses and meganobz and even that is a stretch since most warbosses are taking the relic klaw and the Meganobz are REQUIRED to take powerklaws or saws.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 00:42:22


Post by: Dr.Duck


How are people idealy kitting out Kommando nobz? Power stabba or big choppa or what?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 00:45:14


Post by: SemperMortis


 Dr.Duck wrote:
How are people idealy kitting out Kommando nobz? Power stabba or big choppa or what?


I take mine naked, but with the new rule I might start bringing double choppa Kommando Nobz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 00:57:25


Post by: deffrekka


So what about my following idea i posted a page back:

A Bad Moons Dread Waaagh Big Mek with Da Soup'd Up Shokka popping Kustom Ammo and Showin' Off (maybe with Moar Dakka too) to shot 6d6 shots.

Possibly 8d6 shots... "Kustom Job: This unit can shoot twice this shooting phase with all its ranged weapons."

then...

"Showin' Off: Immediately after resolving a shooting attack with a Bad Moons Infantry unit from your army. This unit can shoot all of its weapons a second time."

so would that be 2d6 shots twice and then all that a second time?

Then add Big Killa Boss to get +1 to wound vs vehicles and monsters and your reroll 1's to hit. You wouldnt actually need walkers in the army, just him as he qualifies for the Dread Waaagh Detachment .

He is literally 80pts, is a character so cant be targetted unless its snipers (grot shield) or pyschic powers, has a huge 60" range.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 01:20:59


Post by: gungo


 Dr.Duck wrote:
How are people idealy kitting out Kommando nobz? Power stabba or big choppa or what?

Never the powerklaw unless ur forced too with no index
The big choppa is my go too... it pairs well w the burnas as fake power weapons But the power stabba and double choppa is fine depending on points.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 01:36:13


Post by: BaconCatBug


So I tried my Gorkanaut bomb idea. Didn't go to well because I whiffed the charge even with Ramming Speed and Ere We Go. :( Got destroyed in 1 turn of shooting, Warboss popped out and got slaughtered by charging Jetbikes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 01:43:55


Post by: Rismonite


 BaconCatBug wrote:
So I tried my Gorkanaut bomb idea. Didn't go to well because I whiffed the charge even with Ramming Speed and Ere We Go. :( Got destroyed in 1 turn of shooting, Warboss popped out and got slaughtered by charging Jetbikes.


MEDIOCRE!!!

really though that is some bad dice, go buy a lottery ticket.

My home terrain are lots of little annoying things that we call difficult terrain and I've slowly stopped putting it on the table, because missing even one charge can be gameover. Codex: Glasskannon


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 02:45:20


Post by: BaconCatBug


I wonder if running a Morkanaught with KFF might have been better.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 04:29:26


Post by: Grimskul


I dunno, I feel like power klaws fine, even in boys squads they have their niche. The extra AP can go a long way and at least for deffskulls, it makes the most of the weapon since you can reroll everything for it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 08:16:19


Post by: Blackie


 Grimskul wrote:
I dunno, I feel like power klaws fine, even in boys squads they have their niche. The extra AP can go a long way and at least for deffskulls, it makes the most of the weapon since you can reroll everything for it.


Well it depends on the target. Boyz are not good at all against armored targets but amazing against infantries. Against infantries, even elite ones, the nobz attack are a bonus but don't matter than much and against armored stuff the whole unit is not powerful enough to do serious damage. A PK doesn't synergize well with boyz in this edition, it's not like in previous editions where boyz squads were just ablative wounds for than single PK nob. Choppa and big choppa have better synergy with lots of S4 AP- attacks. Sure if you have a few spared point why not, PK are certainly not trash, but I always struggle with any single point and I basically never take them for boyz mobs.

Maybe it's just me, I always avoid versatility. If I play competitively each unit in my army must have a specific job and be optmized to do that, unless there's a unit in the codex that is good for everything (like drukhari's disintegrator cannons that are effective against infantries and tanks outpferforming dark lances) but I don't think orks have something like that, barring Smasha Guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
I wonder if running a Morkanaught with KFF might have been better.


If you fail that charge and soak the anti tank in the subsequent turn the morkanaut would be damaged and with less attacks than a gorkanaut. If the opponent managed to kill the gorkanaut, with a 5++ maybe the walker could survive but surely in bad shape. His KFF wouldn't probably cover much since the naut arrived by tellyporta. It would have been a waste of points IMHO, at least tellyporting a gorkanaut has some sense. The morkanaut is more useful as a gun boat that provides the invuln for a other units that are going to attract some attention like a bustas' trukk or a bonebreaka.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 11:36:18


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


So I don't have a stompa anymore but the tellyporta stompa strat could be fun in a narrative game and now they can get a 5+ invuln with a relic. I hadn't seen this stompa mob picture until now.

[Thumb - IMG_6738.JPG]


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 15:30:48


Post by: Jidmah


The stratagem only works for a super-heavy detachment, so a minimum of 3 lords of war. What a waste of paper.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 15:40:57


Post by: PiñaColada


 Jidmah wrote:
The stratagem only works for a super-heavy detachment, so a minimum of 3 lords of war. What a waste of paper.

You could squeeze it in at 2k with a stompa and 2x kill tanks. And then a base battalion for CP but that's still a terrible force, especially since it costs 4CP to tellyport the stompa so that's still out. And it's not like the other buffs are making up for the crazy point cost of it


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 16:27:44


Post by: SemperMortis


Wow what a god awful "Formation".

Reminds me though of 7th edition where Orkz were given a formation that required 2/3rds or more of your army to build a single Formation and the benefit was meh at best, where as Other factions like Space Marines got 400+ free transports armed with TL Lascannons and Plasma guns


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 16:42:14


Post by: flandarz


Here's to hoping the Dread Waagh is decent. And gives benefits to your Kanz, cuz they need it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 16:44:54


Post by: SemperMortis


 flandarz wrote:
Here's to hoping the Dread Waagh is decent. And gives benefits to your Kanz, cuz they need it.
My Kanz have been collecting dust since 7th edition, and I only took them out in 7th as a joke army...which was surprisingly effective when players showed up with a tailored list and realized they didn't have enough anti-armor


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 16:47:33


Post by: flandarz


I ain't gonna lie, I'd be pretty happy to roll an all Dread and Kan Army, if the Detachment makes it worth the effort.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 17:00:22


Post by: PiñaColada


 flandarz wrote:
I ain't gonna lie, I'd be pretty happy to roll an all Dread and Kan Army, if the Detachment makes it worth the effort.

We already know what the dread waaagh does. For 1CP you get the detachment. It affects Big meks, killa kanz, deffdreads, Gorkanauts, Morkanauts
The warlord trait must be given to a big mekaniak, he then repairs 1 additional wound everytime he uses that ability.
The relic is the souped-up shokka, a 2d6 SAG
Kustom Ammo strat 2CP: Shoot again with a dread waaagh unit (don't know if this works on kanz)
Mek Connections 1CP: Get a kustom job from the mekshop on 4+ instead of 6+


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 17:19:52


Post by: flandarz


That seems lackluster. We already got a WL trait that improves Mek repair. Shoot again and Relic are alright, but even a 4+ Kustom Job ain't gonna save the Workshop from gathering dust. Especially if you're paying CP just for an increased chance.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 17:23:35


Post by: PiñaColada


Well yeah. The relic is good and if you only have 1 in your current army (and a big mek SAG) it might be worth to spend 2CP to get it.

2CP to shoot again might be a decent investment on him or the morkanaut.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 17:28:21


Post by: whembly


 Jidmah wrote:
The stratagem only works for a super-heavy detachment, so a minimum of 3 lords of war. What a waste of paper.

Wow... that's a non-starter.

It would've been usable had it said "pick a detachment with a Stompa"...

Good job GW for making such a worthless rule.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 18:08:03


Post by: flandarz


PiñaColada wrote:
Well yeah. The relic is good and if you only have 1 in your current army (and a big mek SAG) it might be worth to spend 2CP to get it.

2CP to shoot again might be a decent investment on him or the morkanaut.


If we can trigger the Shoot Again with Kanz, loading up on some KMBs or Rokkits could be useful too.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 18:20:41


Post by: Pandabeer


 whembly wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
The stratagem only works for a super-heavy detachment, so a minimum of 3 lords of war. What a waste of paper.

Wow... that's a non-starter.

It would've been usable had it said "pick a detachment with a Stompa"...

Good job GW for making such a worthless rule.


Yep... Tellyporting Stompa with trait (don't know which one would be better, both look nice) and Relic just might be worth that 920 points price tag. Probably want to be Bad Moonz for the reroll 1s in the shooting phase. Tellyport in, use More Dakka for shooting, then Ramming Speed to guarantee the charge. Would be absolutely gorious, even if it's 9 CP to pull it off. If I ever get 2 Kill Tanks and a Stompa I'll be sure to give it a go (or proxy a Gorkanaut and 2 Battlewagons for a single game to see if it works for gaks and giggles)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 18:51:36


Post by: oomiestompa


Neither of the Dread Waaagh stratagems specify Gretchin units, and the Dread Waaagh does not provide a rule for Kans to override the Gretchin rule in the codex. RAW, they can't use the Dread Waaagh strats.

Literally the only benefit to Kans in a Dread Waaagh is if you take the warlord trait, you can repair an extra wound when fixing Kans. Whoop dee doo.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 19:03:30


Post by: flandarz


It's like GW wants shielding Orkz to be the only thing Grots are good for.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 21:01:31


Post by: tneva82


Well went to the competive qualifier tournament and boy what a whopping I got. My list was sooooo outclassed and I was soooo outplayed. Also had missed that all scenarios had killpoints though luckily difference was capped at 6. Still basically starting at -6 is rough.

My list:

Spoiler:
Battalion detachment: bad moons:

No FOC: Runtherd(grabba stick, squighound) 35

HQ1: Big mek in mega armour: kustom force field, kustom mega blasta, power klaw 119
HQ2: Weirdboy: da jump 62
Troop1: 30xgretchin 90
Troop2: 17xgretchin 51
Troop3: 10xgretchin 30
Heavy1: 15xloota 255
Heavy2: Mek gun: kustom mega kannon 60

Battalion detachment: deathskulls

HQ1: Big mek w/shock attack gun - WARLORD: Kunning but brutal 80
HQ2: weirdboy: da jump 62
Troop1: 10xgretchin 30
Troop2: 10xgretchin 30
Troop3: 10xgretchin 30
Heavy1: Mek gun: kustom mega kannon 60

Battalion detachment: evil suns

HQ1: Deffkilla wartrike: super cybork body 120
HQ2: weirdboy: fist of gork 62
Troop1: 29xboyz(choppa&slugga), boss nob(big choppa, slugga) 215
Troop2: 10xgretchin 30
Troop3: 10xgretchin 30
Fast1: 5xwarbike, boss nob(power klaw) 151
Heavy1: 3xdeff dread(2xklaw, 1xsaw, 1xskorcha) 336
Heavy2: Mek gun: kustom mega kannon 60


Spoiler:



One of my dreads photographed by tournament organizer.

First game was up against this eldar nightmare:

Spoiler:
Ynnari Patrol Detachment:

HQ1: Yvraine, Warlord (Tenacious survivor), Word of The Phoenix, Gaze of Ynnead [132] <Ynnari>
Troop1: 20 Guardian Defenders (20*8) [160] <Ulthwe><Ynnari>
Heavy1: 9 Dark Reapers (9*12). 8 Reaper Launchers (8*22), Tempest Launcher (27) [311] <Alaitoc><Ynnari>

Alaitoc Battalion Detachment:

HQ1: Farseer, Guide, Fortune [110] <Alaitoc>
HQ2: Farseer, Doom, Executioner [110] <Alaitoc>
Troop1: 5 Dire Avengers (5*8), 5 Avenger Catapults (5*4) [60] <Alaitoc>
Transport1: Wave Serpent (107) Twin Shuriken Cannon (17), Shuriken Cannon (10) [134] <Alaitoc>
Troop2: 5 Dire Avengers (5*8), 5 Avenger Catapults (5*4) [60] <Alaitoc>
Transport2: Wave Serpent (107) Twin Shuriken Cannon (17), Shuriken Cannon (10) [134] <Alaitoc>
Troop3: 5 Dire Avengers (5*8), 5 Avenger Catapults (5*4) [60] <Alaitoc>
Transport3: Wave Serpent (107) Twin Shuriken Cannon (17), Shuriken Cannon (10) [134] <Alaitoc>

Alaitoc Air Wing Detachment:

Flyer1: Crimson Hunter Exarch (135), 2 Bright Lances (40) [175] <Alaitoc>
Flyer2: Hemlock Wraithfighter (200), Spirit Stones (10), Jinx [210] <Alaitoc>
Flyer3: Hemlock Wraithfighter (200), Spirit Stones (10), Jinx [210] <Alaitoc>


Spoiler:


Somewhere on my turn 1 or his turn 1. Anyway did get 1st turn(yey) but screwed up with lootas trying to take out serpent with reapers. Failed. Fired again splitting few lootas to that trying to finish but failed with 2 left and rest to only flyer I could see leaving it with 2-3 wounds. Should have first fired everything at flier and then see if I had anything left for serpent(only thing I could see anyway). Opponent later thought I should have shot at 2 flyers. Well nice idea but would require da jumping out of grot safety or having put grots on my left but I needed to surround 360 degrees and I would struggle to see anywhere later. I also got into headache that grot unit behind didn't protect from front so should have done half moons. Also ynnari shooting in magic phase soaked up grots and cp's fast needing to use grot screen in 2 phase. Luckily he only got that spell off 1st and 6th turn.

I got 2 flyers out but serpents were nightmare and failed to do anything. I stupidly deep striked both boyz and dreads so flyers, serpents and bazillion small units ensured in t3 I got nothing useful out of deep strikes. Well 1 or 2 dreads into guardians but then out. Boyz deep striked behind house trying to avoid wipe out but eventually had to risk out with 4vp objective in open. Alas even with 5++ the reapers took them out no problemo. 5th turn he got good cards and 6th turn was last thing I needed. Survived with lone weirdboy and luckily game ended but again huge cards for him. Bazillion vp's from cards, lots in objectives and max 6 from kill point gap.

Game 2. Civil war vs another orks!

Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment, Ork, Evil Sunz

HQ1: Warboss (65) Da Killa Klaw (13) Kustom Shoota (2) Attack Squig (0) [80] -Warlord, Brutal but Kunnin
HQ2: Big Mek in Mega Armour (77) Power Klaw (13) Kustom Shoota (2) Kustom Force Field (20) [112]
HQ3: Weirdboy [62] -Fists Of Gork
Troop1: Boyz x30 (210) Tankbusta Bombs x3 (0) Nob (0) Big Choppa (5) [215]
Troop2: Boyz x30 (210) Tankbusta Bombs x3 (0) Nob (0) Big Choppa (5) [215]
Troop3: Boyz x30 (210) Tankbusta Bombs x3 (0) Nob (0) Big Choppa (5) [215]
Elite1: Painboy (52) Power Klaw (13) [65]

Battalion Detachment, Ork, Bad Moons

HQ1: Weirdboy [62] -Da Jump
HQ2: Weirdboy [62] -Warpath
Troop1: Gretchin x11 [33]
Troop1: Gretchin x10 [30]
Troop1: Gretchin x10 [30]
Heavy1: Lootas x12 [204]
Heavy2: Lootas x10 [170]

Air Wing Detachment, Ork, Bad Moons

Flyer1: Dakkajet (88) Supa Shoota x6 (60) [148]
Flyer2: Dakkajet (88) Supa Shoota x6 (60) [148]
Flyer3: Dakkajet (88) Supa Shoota x6 (60) [148]


Ouch. Less grots but better loota star. Lots of boyz and good support from them and 3 dakkajet...Ouch.

Spoiler:


On my turn 1. I took out 2 dakkajets from right with 2x3 shots from loota squad. Going first was big. On left bikes and trike tried suicide charge vs boyz mob to box him in and get them under 20 maybe. With 11+whatever trike averages from shooting as average output shouldn't be too bad but ended up barely putting up a dent and dying on his turn(trike on my turn...). Game could be summed up as "da jumping loota stars" as that's what was going on. T2 I brought in boyz and charged his boyz squad #2 that had da jumped to cover lootas from my deep strikes. I killed tons but they had warpath on so killed lots. I activated fight again(that faq nerf hit me big here) and vaporized rest and tagged his lootas who killed another 4. With 18 dead orks and 12 left I lost lots to morale leaving like 4. I took out his last dakkajet and thinned the boyz mob bikes had attacked but very bad rolling there.

His da jump succeeded thanks to +2 from having bigger loota star than I had so they went to killing several my lootas grot screen or not. 44 shots twice gets some through anyway. His boyz mob charged grots and tagged MY lootas. Da jump got them out of there though. Also boyz squad #3 came to my left. Careless there with spare grots. Should have blocked that area.Deff dreads came to left of boyz on left which was bad idea in the end. a) I should have trusted my shooting there b) there's warboss there and lootas c) there was 3rd boyz mob on my right I should have went for...Could even have charged with all 3 rather than 1 that charged warboss and failed to even kill it. Shooting at least wiped out boyz mob(grots were real heroes here killing boyz left and right. Albeit I had like 40 grots shooting ).

Well lootas and warboss dealt with deff dreads and da jump failed leaving my loota mob to mercy of boyz mob. At least my warlord killed his warlord before lootas killed him. We stopped before end as a) his boyz would have likely wiped out anyway b) he was bazillion vp's ahead anyway so 0-20.

Last game would be against tau:

Spoiler:
T'au Brigade Detachment +12CP, T'au Sept

HQ1: Cadre Fireblade [42pts]: Markerlight [3pts]

HQ2: Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [174pts]: 4. Through Boldness, Victory, 4x Fusion blaster [84pts], Vectored manoeuvring thrusters, Warlord

HQ3: Ethereal [45pts]: Honour blade

TROOP1: Breacher Team [35pts]. 4x Fire Warrior [28pts]. Fire Warrior Shas'ui [7pts]: Pulse blaster

TROOP2: Breacher Team [38pts]. 4x Fire Warrior [28pts]. Fire Warrior Shas'ui [10pts]: Markerlight [3pts],Pulse blaster

TROOP3: Strike Team [38pts]. Fire Warrior Shas'ui [10pts]: Markerlight [3pts], Pulse rifle. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle [28pts]

TROOP4: Strike Team [38pts]. Fire Warrior Shas'ui [10pts]: Markerlight [3pts], Pulse rifle. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle [28pts]

TROOP5: Strike Team [38pts]. Fire Warrior Shas'ui [10pts]: Markerlight [3pts], Pulse rifle. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle [28pts]

TROOP6: Strike Team [38pts]. Fire Warrior Shas'ui [10pts]: Markerlight [3pts], Pulse rifle. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle [28pts]

ELITE1: XV104 Riptide Battlesuit [272pts]: 2x Smart missile system [30pts], Heavy burst cannon [35pts], Target lock [12pts], Velocity tracker [10pts]

ELITE2: XV104 Riptide Battlesuit [272pts]: 2x Smart missile system [30pts], Heavy burst cannon [35pts], Target lock [12pts], Velocity tracker [10pts]

ELITE3: XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [305pts]: 3x MV4 Shield Drone [30pts]
. Crisis Shas'ui [96pts]: 3x Cyclic ion blaster [54pts]
. Crisis Shas'ui [96pts]: 3x Cyclic ion blaster [54pts]
. Crisis Shas'vre [83pts]: 2x Cyclic ion blaster [36pts], Drone controller [5pts]

FAST1: Pathfinder Team [56pts]: MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone [8pts]. 5x Pathfinder [40pts]: 5x Markerlight [15pts]. Pathfinder Shas'ui [8pts]: Markerlight [3pts]

FAST2: Pathfinder Team [56pts]: MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone [8pts] . 5x Pathfinder [40pts]: 5x Markerlight [15pts] . Pathfinder Shas'ui [8pts]: Markerlight [3pts]

FAST3: Tactical Drones [40pts]: 4x MV4 Shield Drone [40pts]
HEAVY1: MV71 Sniper Drones [54pts]: 3x MV71 Sniper Drone [54pts]
HEAVY2: MV71 Sniper Drones [54pts]: 3x MV71 Sniper Drone [54pts]
HEAVY3: XV88 Broadside Battlesuits [147pts]: 2x MV4 Shield Drone [20pts] . Broadside Shas'ui [7 PL, 131pts]: 2x Smart missile system [30pts], Heavy rail rifle [35pts], Velocity tracker [2pts]

T'au Vanguard Detachment +1CP, T'au Sept

HQ1: Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [176pts]: 2x Fusion blaster [42pts], High-output burst cannon [20pts], Missile pod [24pts]
HEAVY1: DX-4 Technical Drones [32pts]: 2x DX-4 Technical Drone [2 PL, 32pts]
HEAVY2: Firesight Marksman [25pts]: Markerlight [3pts], Pulse pistol [1pts]
HEAVY3: Firesight Marksman [25pts]: Markerlight [3pts], Pulse pistol [1pts]


Short edge deployment which actually was blessing as I Actually outranged him! That's unusual.

I got turn 1 and this time hadn't tellyported boyz. And boy I got near perfect chance for awesome start. Bikes+trike headed to deal with crisis team and 1 died to overwatch vs bikes that failed to charge(Drat). I used ramming speed and BARELY charged with trike but only got 3 drones for my effort. However real star potential were boyz that da jumped next to like 6 squads of small tau warriors. KMK's torched the broadside and lootas split their 3 shots each. Rolled pretty badly but all in all I got 2 squads dead, 1 squad to 3 guys and critically(I wasn't even TRYING to finish off squads as I Wanted small survivor squad) one squad behind closest squad dropped to 1 warrior. So now. 8" charge. If I succeed(78% odds) I will vaporize that 5 squad and if I roll like 9 or 10 I can even pile in to that 1 guy and if not consolidiate would get. Fight twice strategem if need be. I would have 30 boyz in his dz IMMUNE TO SHOOTING!

Best I got was 7"...

Needless to say 2 riptides, 2 commanders, 30 shots from firewarriors did not leave even 1 survivor for endless tide.

T2. I brought in deff dreads behind riptides. My lootas had no LOS to anything useful but no problem. Da jump into rocky outcrop. More dakka. 3 shots. All into riptide. 45 shots later near dead. Opponent was "phew survived" and then I fired 45 shots again and his reaction went to WHAT? when his riptide vanished in cloud of smoke. Problem was my lootas had no grot screens but I was fairly far from his weapons...Weird feeling to be outranging tau.

So 3 deff dread vs riptide. One charged. Got lots of overwatch but survived. Second charged in, got 1 wound from another support overwatch. Unfortunately 3rd failed and there was still 2 drones that took out big saws so left with wounds. Sigh. His turn fall back and concentrated on 3 dreads rather than lootas killing them all.

T3 lootas da jumped to other side(along with grots that rushed in to provide some screen in case) triggering much muttering. I tried to finish off riptide(now with 9 wounds) but 1 shots even with reroll. With more dakka on I opted to spend last 2 for show off as well despite 1 shot but 3++ it had triggered kept him going. He got just lotsa grots into range though.

T4 I finished off crisis team(1 survivor. 1 more had corked itself by overcharge) with SAG. Lootas finished off riptide and also another drone squadron when he tried to keep it alive.

T5. Time was running up so we called this last turn(he was doubtful could we get it done. I said yes. Should have tried to get game ended but with 20 minutes left felt 1 more round was fair to do). I failed da jump grot squad into his dz which would have been 2 vp(master of warp and behind the enemy lines). 12 grots charged lone firewarrior to get blood and guts and failed. His turn he got 6 cards(scenario had always discard all at start, then get 3+1 per kill from last turn so he got 6) so he got domination, secure 4, priority order secure 4 which was easy with his cold star suit warlord, psychological warfare(he also took care of that killing 4 grots) and some other so got tons of cards.

He got 19 from cards, 2 difference from kill points, 4 difference from objectives. I got total of 10 so 25-10 so 18-2 for tau.

Bugger. Final position tied last with 17 pts(so 15/25 from painting) with another tau.

Improvements from list I think I could do with same rules(ie no index).

option a) drop trike and big mek w/MA&KFF. Never impressed with those, trike easy kill point, get another SAG and the freeboota character. Another long range gun with d6 damage could be nice as deathskull. 1 was already pretty useful and this with some bad rolling. Save tons of points. Drop also bikes. Have yet to be impressed with them. Either dakkajet or maybe mek guns.
option b) Change deth skull battallion into spearhead. Drop either trike or kff MA mek. Bolster the BM grots. Get mek guns or maybe dakkajet if points have. Consider also option a combining here. Less killpoints, more guns. Don't tellyport boyz to deal with 14 cp.

Oh and obviously skorchas on dreads needs to go if I wanted optimum but I need to rip arms and convert something to them.

[Thumb - IMG_20181209_175713.jpg]


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 21:05:13


Post by: Tibs Ironblood


On the dread mob you could just bring a super shooty big mek with gretchin in a patrol to spit out the 2d6 shokk attacks, then shoot again with their strat and then shoot again if you are a bad moon or if he is your warlord and a deathskull he can be sniping out characters like nobodies business.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 21:10:35


Post by: tneva82


 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
On the dread mob you could just bring a super shooty big mek with gretchin in a patrol to spit out the 2d6 shokk attacks, then shoot again with their strat and then shoot again if you are a bad moon or if he is your warlord and a deathskull he can be sniping out characters like nobodies business.


I'm not convinced you CAN shoot three time bad moon or not. Both strategems allow you to fire "second time". That's same effect from 2 strategems. If you are shooting 3rd time it's not second time. It's not "shoot one more time" which would stack. But shooting 2nd time twice? Nope. Just like vulkrite knights don't get 3 hits out of strategem and relic that is 6=2 hits don't get here.

But that's allright IMO. The bad moon strategem is better off on lootas or tank bustas anyway. And the super SAG I would prefer on death skull anyway to get those rerolls. You can even decide to not use them(except damage if first salvo gets them) if first salvo is bad rolls.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 21:23:11


Post by: Tibs Ironblood


tneva82 wrote:
 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
On the dread mob you could just bring a super shooty big mek with gretchin in a patrol to spit out the 2d6 shokk attacks, then shoot again with their strat and then shoot again if you are a bad moon or if he is your warlord and a deathskull he can be sniping out characters like nobodies business.


I'm not convinced you CAN shoot three time bad moon or not. Both strategems allow you to fire "second time". That's same effect from 2 strategems. If you are shooting 3rd time it's not second time. It's not "shoot one more time" which would stack. But shooting 2nd time twice? Nope. Just like vulkrite knights don't get 3 hits out of strategem and relic that is 6=2 hits don't get here.

But that's allright IMO. The bad moon strategem is better off on lootas or tank bustas anyway. And the super SAG I would prefer on death skull anyway to get those rerolls. You can even decide to not use them(except damage if first salvo gets them) if first salvo is bad rolls.

Yeah that is actually a very good point I had not thought of. Still though the deathskulls version would be pretty awesome still and have a great niche for vehicle slaying and character sniping.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/09 21:24:45


Post by: tneva82


Yeah deathskull is the one I would go with that. IMO bad moon one is just too awesome for lootas or tank bustas. The lootas are just solving so much stuff. As long as you don\t run into dark eldars that is! But the SAG is pretty good weapon for deathskull and super SAG more so. And shoot again MIGHT be worth it sometimes though CP's are sooo precious on orks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 03:25:01


Post by: JimOnMars


tneva82 wrote:
Well went to the competive qualifier tournament and boy what a whopping I got. My list was sooooo outclassed and I was soooo outplayed. Also had missed that all scenarios had killpoints though luckily difference was capped at 6. Still basically starting at -6 is rough.
Nice batreps, sorry you had a bad day.

Killpoints will always be tough for us. Too bad you didn't know before you went, you could have made some coffee and read a book...might have been more fun.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 03:55:49


Post by: Trimarius


Oof, kill points and random objectives? That's a terrible combo to see at a tourney. At least you weren't running straight Deathskullz and handing out free kp even faster, I guess?

I do like the Deathskullz Super-SAG, though. He's got about the same firepower as a unit of Lootas versus a lot of targets, is pretty cheap, is harder to snipe, and let's you shoot twice in other clans (or with two units, if running Badmoons and you can afford it).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 07:51:48


Post by: tneva82


Well another casual tournament coming up. 1750 pts, no index. This time I know in advance kill points and again maxed at 6 for the gap. Scenarios will be:

Spoiler:








Current line of thinking is(prechecking already is it casual enough. Loota star being biggest eye browser but that's only ranged weapon and I'm eating so much CP anyway that will struggle to power them much. I might have to limit on more dakka unless I have to move around).

Spoiler:
battallion: bad moon

HQ1: Kaptin badruk 84
HQ2: weirdboy(da jump) 62
Troop1: 29xboyz(29xshoota)+nob(power klaw, slugga) 223
Troop2: 30xgrot 90
Troop3: 30xgrot 90
Heavy1: 15xloota 255
Heavy2: 2xmek gun(2xsmasha gun) 62

Battalion: goff

HQ1: weirdboy(da jump) 62
HQ2: warboss(big choppa, kustom shoota) 72
Troop1: 29xboyz(29xchoppa&slugga)+nob(power klaw, slugga) 223
Troop2: 10xgrot 30
Troop3: 10xgrot 30

Battalion: evil sun

HQ1: warboss(power klaw(killy klaw), WARLORD: brutal but kunning, kustom shoota) 80
HQ2: weirdboy(warpath) 62
Troop1: 29xboyz(29xchoppa&slugga)+nob(big choppa) 215
Troop2: 9xboyz(9xshoota)+nob(power klaw) 83
Troop3: 10xgrot 30

total: 1750


Plan goes: Try to deploy lootas in position they can shoot at decent targets. T1 da jump shoota mob to clear chaff. Mob up evil suns. T2 da jump them and bring goffs from tellyport. Pray like hell goffs make the charge.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 07:58:46


Post by: hortsmann


tneva82 wrote:

Current line of thinking is(prechecking already is it casual enough. Loota star being biggest eye browser but that's only ranged weapon and I'm eating so much CP anyway that will struggle to power them much. I might have to limit on more dakka unless I have to move around).


There is no reason to use more dakka if you don't have a -1 modifier. +16% shots isn't worth 2 cp.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 08:03:27


Post by: tneva82


hortsmann wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Current line of thinking is(prechecking already is it casual enough. Loota star being biggest eye browser but that's only ranged weapon and I'm eating so much CP anyway that will struggle to power them much. I might have to limit on more dakka unless I have to move around).


There is no reason to use more dakka if you don't have a -1 modifier. +16% shots isn't worth 2 cp.


Depends on targets. For example on sunday bringing down that riptide was worth it. Those things don't worry too much about being partially damaged especially when they were getting 3-4 wounds back if alive.

Though one issue is that generally they ARE jumping around. There's plenty of terrain here so it's hard to get LOS to good targets. Game 1 I had 1 flyer and 1 wave serpent visible T1 for example. Game 2 was marked by jumping lootas from both sides. Game 3 I da jumped 2/3 turns(and then ran out of CP) to allow me to get LOS to riptide.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 08:20:24


Post by: Blackie


Well if you have 18 CPs investing 2 for More Dakka on lootas usually worths it.

Always an ammo runt for Badrukk


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 08:27:23


Post by: tneva82


 Blackie wrote:
Well if you have 18 CPs investing 2 for More Dakka on lootas usually worths it.

Always an ammo runt for Badrukk


18 went up like in 2 turns this tournament...Game 1 I had little left on T3. Game 2 ditto. Game 3 I had least issues as boyz didn't tellyport and no more dakka on T1(firewarriors aren't targets the 16% more hits in average is worth it. Especially as I was trying to AVOID wiping out squads!!!) so still could fire 3 turns at full effect. Oh and was helped by never needing grot screen(did use ramming speed twice though) as the short edge table deployment was AWESOME for me. It was pretty unreal realizing the more distance orks had vs tau the BETTER it was as I was doing long range better than he was!

Orks eat CP's like sahara eats drop of rain.

And suggestions where to take 4 pts for ammo runt?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 10:25:00


Post by: Blackie


tneva82 wrote:
 Blackie wrote:


And suggestions where to take 4 pts for ammo runt?


Yeah, drop one power klaw from boyz mob and replace it with a big choppa.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 10:27:48


Post by: tneva82


That's not possible. The power klaw is quite clearly power klaw and not big choppa.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 10:31:39


Post by: PiñaColada


tneva82 wrote:
That's not possible. The power klaw is quite clearly power klaw and not big choppa.

You don't have another big choppa nob from a nobz squad you can nick it from?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 10:31:40


Post by: Blackie


You mean you don't have the model? What about a standard choppa nob?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 10:37:12


Post by: tneva82


Nope for either. I have 2 evil sun nobz. One with big choppa, one with power klaw.

BTW list got greenlight. Much to my surprise only the 3 weirdboys got any hickup but not lethal. Guess they would like less spamming but as I pointed out orks are really, really, really struggling with HQ choices and I'm going to sink through 18 CP and still not able to really power up everything to full strenght. I'm going to have to make hard choices on CP usage. Depending on deployments/who get first turn quite possible I have to da jump lootas AND seriously consider not using showing off especially if I use cp to reroll 1 from shots and not get 3 shots etc. We'll see. But I expect I want to use boyz have some CP as well and they eat 3 to begin with(2 for tellyport goffs, 1 for skarboyz).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 14:37:29


Post by: the_scotsman


I am wondering whether the ability to shoot twice is worth bringing a full 6-mob of killa kanz with my freeboota detachment.

I can invest 1Cp at the beginning of the game to bring the badskull banner and basically mitigate the Kanz morale issues (I find opponents tend to try and focus down 3-4 in a turn to wipe the rest with morale, using the banner I could basically remove that.)

The question is, is 2CP worth an extra 6 rokkit shots at BS4+? The alternate use I can come up with for the strat with Freebootas is waiting until after you trigger the kultur and popping it on something like a morkanaut or gorkanaut (neither of which I own models for) to get double shots at BS4+. You can of course combo it with More Dakka for even more shots.

I'm with Tneva with the interpretation that it is not stackable with showin' off.both say "may shoot a second time" rather than "an additional time" or "again."


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 14:42:28


Post by: PiñaColada


the_scotsman wrote:
I am wondering whether the ability to shoot twice is worth bringing a full 6-mob of killa kanz with my freeboota detachment.

I can invest 1Cp at the beginning of the game to bring the badskull banner and basically mitigate the Kanz morale issues (I find opponents tend to try and focus down 3-4 in a turn to wipe the rest with morale, using the banner I could basically remove that.)

The question is, is 2CP worth an extra 6 rokkit shots at BS4+? The alternate use I can come up with for the strat with Freebootas is waiting until after you trigger the kultur and popping it on something like a morkanaut or gorkanaut (neither of which I own models for) to get double shots at BS4+. You can of course combo it with More Dakka for even more shots.

I'm with Tneva with the interpretation that it is not stackable with showin' off.both say "may shoot a second time" rather than "an additional time" or "again."

Are you talking about "kustom ammo"? Because I'm still not really buying the fact that the kanz can get that strat thrown on them, since they are GRETCHIN and it doesn't specifically mention that it works on them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 14:56:39


Post by: the_scotsman


PiñaColada wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I am wondering whether the ability to shoot twice is worth bringing a full 6-mob of killa kanz with my freeboota detachment.

I can invest 1Cp at the beginning of the game to bring the badskull banner and basically mitigate the Kanz morale issues (I find opponents tend to try and focus down 3-4 in a turn to wipe the rest with morale, using the banner I could basically remove that.)

The question is, is 2CP worth an extra 6 rokkit shots at BS4+? The alternate use I can come up with for the strat with Freebootas is waiting until after you trigger the kultur and popping it on something like a morkanaut or gorkanaut (neither of which I own models for) to get double shots at BS4+. You can of course combo it with More Dakka for even more shots.

I'm with Tneva with the interpretation that it is not stackable with showin' off.both say "may shoot a second time" rather than "an additional time" or "again."

Are you talking about "kustom ammo"? Because I'm still not really buying the fact that the kanz can get that strat thrown on them, since they are GRETCHIN and it doesn't specifically mention that it works on them.


You pay a CP to add the special "Dread mob" keyword to them, and it specifies "Dread Mob" unit - how much more specific can you get?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:00:50


Post by: BaconCatBug


The stratagems from the Vigilus book aren't affected by the Grots rule because they aren't "Ork Stratagems".


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:02:24


Post by: PiñaColada


I don't see how this is different than like "Get Stuck in Ladz" which only specifies Ork infantry. This new detachment gives them a keyword but doesn't explicitly state that it works on grots. In both scenarios all the stated keywords on the stratagem match but it doesn't work on option a so why would it work on option b?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it working on them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:04:27


Post by: BaconCatBug


Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:06:54


Post by: the_scotsman


 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.


Nope.

[Thumb - ork strat.JPG]


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:07:46


Post by: PiñaColada


 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.

I guess that might be true.. Not sure if GW would FAQ this scenario but maybe they should, I would like if Kanz actually got to use strats but I'm unsure if GW meant for it to be a distinction here, so they might just FAQ it stating they can't.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:11:56


Post by: the_scotsman


PiñaColada wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.

I guess that might be true.. Not sure if GW would FAQ this scenario but maybe they should, I would like if Kanz actually got to use strats but I'm unsure if GW meant for it to be a distinction here, so they might just FAQ it stating they can't.


I think until they do I'll play it as though they can't, which is hilarious, because it means that kanz can benefit from the Dread mob detachment in exactly one, highly specific way: They can be repaired 1 point more with the warlord trait.

I might still consider dread waagh on a freeboota/bad moonz/deffskullz list featuring a morkanaut, since those things have relatively beefy firepower and shooting twice with More Dakka on might be a solid use of CPs for some antitank firepower. especially if youre a freeboota with the kultur popped.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:18:46


Post by: PiñaColada


the_scotsman wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.

I guess that might be true.. Not sure if GW would FAQ this scenario but maybe they should, I would like if Kanz actually got to use strats but I'm unsure if GW meant for it to be a distinction here, so they might just FAQ it stating they can't.


I think until they do I'll play it as though they can't, which is hilarious, because it means that kanz can benefit from the Dread mob detachment in exactly one, highly specific way: They can be repaired 1 point more with the warlord trait.

I might still consider dread waagh on a freeboota/bad moonz/deffskullz list featuring a morkanaut, since those things have relatively beefy firepower and shooting twice with More Dakka on might be a solid use of CPs for some antitank firepower. especially if youre a freeboota with the kultur popped.

If they clarify that the shooting twice strat works on Kanz then the detachment is a bit more interesting. As of right now, the morkanaut is probably the real target for the strat but the relic SAG might also be pretty fun if you like gambling. What's good about the detchment is that you can obviously use this in addition to showing off so there's a real chance for some crazy alpha strike potential here (even if it's soooo CP expensive)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:32:33


Post by: deffrekka


I believe you can shot 3 times with a bad moons dread big mek. It's all about sequences. The bad moon trait happens when your unit fully resolves it's shooting attempt then you use the stratagem, kustom ammo allows you to flat out shoot twice will all guns.

It's Like getting multiple instances of +1 to hit, they stack? So why wouldn't kustom ammo and showing off? Ad mech can get 2 instances of +1 to hit from 2 different stratagems for kataphrons so they hit on a 2+.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:34:48


Post by: PiñaColada


That might be true, I just want to clarify that's not what I meant. I meant showing off on lootas in addition to kustom ammo on like a morkanaut.

Regarding shooting thrice I hope GW does a little FAQ on that as well


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:49:49


Post by: deffrekka


Even then I don't think it would he too powerful, even with Moar Dakka on top and reroll 1's it gets like 12.44 hits at str 7 on average? Which is like 7 damage on a 3++ knight all for 6cp...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 15:56:03


Post by: tneva82


 deffrekka wrote:
I believe you can shot 3 times with a bad moons dread big mek. It's all about sequences. The bad moon trait happens when your unit fully resolves it's shooting attempt then you use the stratagem, kustom ammo allows you to flat out shoot twice will all guns.

It's Like getting multiple instances of +1 to hit, they stack? So why wouldn't kustom ammo and showing off? Ad mech can get 2 instances of +1 to hit from 2 different stratagems for kataphrons so they hit on a 2+.


Because it's not plus modifier but more like set number. If your ork boyz would be targeted by 2 strategems that say they hit on 4+ would they hit on 3+? Or 2 strategems saying 6 to hit is 2 hits. That's still 2 hits. Not 3 or 4


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 16:31:41


Post by: the_scotsman


tneva82 wrote:
 deffrekka wrote:
I believe you can shot 3 times with a bad moons dread big mek. It's all about sequences. The bad moon trait happens when your unit fully resolves it's shooting attempt then you use the stratagem, kustom ammo allows you to flat out shoot twice will all guns.

It's Like getting multiple instances of +1 to hit, they stack? So why wouldn't kustom ammo and showing off? Ad mech can get 2 instances of +1 to hit from 2 different stratagems for kataphrons so they hit on a 2+.


Because it's not plus modifier but more like set number. If your ork boyz would be targeted by 2 strategems that say they hit on 4+ would they hit on 3+? Or 2 strategems saying 6 to hit is 2 hits. That's still 2 hits. Not 3 or 4


I agree. both stratagems specifically say "twice" not "again." Two is the number of the shooting, the number of the shooting shall be two. One is only acceptable should you then continue to two, three is right out.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 16:50:26


Post by: deffrekka


Well one is shoot twice and the other is shoot a second time.

How does a soul bursted ynarri fire prism work when it fires it turret and has moved less than half it's movement?

If that fire prism kills it's target with its gun and gains strength from death, it then fires again twice wont it?

It's still a matter of sequence isn't it? One is done immediately, the other is done when the attack has been resolved?

(IGNORE THE FIRE PRISM, VEHICLES CAT BENEFIT FROM STRENGTH FROM DEATH, BUT IF A UNIT THAT SHOTS TWICE CAN AND THEN IS ALLOWED TO FIRE AGAIN ONCE IT HAS KILLED A TARGET WOULD THEN BE ALLOWED TO DO IT AGAIN AS IT ISNT DONE SIMULTANEOUSLY)

That's two separate instances of being allowed to fire again.

Neither one takes place at the same time during that shooting phase. If both stratagems both said the unit may fire twice I would agree. But one has a requirement that it must have already resolved it's shooting attempt to then be triggered.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 19:49:38


Post by: BaconCatBug


the_scotsman wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.


Nope.
That subheader has zero rules meaning. By your logic I can use "Showin' Off" on my Mek Gunz now because it's a "Bad Moons Stratagem" and not an "Orks Stratagem". There is a reason why the errata'd Agents of Vect to have the "You must have a Kabal of the Black Heart Model" rider, because the subheading has no rules meaning.

Baring any definition to the contrary, we default to what the English meaning of an "Ork Stratagem" is, which of course is ambiguous (thanks GW) but I don't see it as unreasonable to define it as "A stratagem found in the Ork Codex." as opposed to "any stratagem that can be used by Orks", because the latter would include BRB stratagems too.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 20:36:22


Post by: the_scotsman


 BaconCatBug wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.


Nope.
That subheader has zero rules meaning. By your logic I can use "Showin' Off" on my Mek Gunz now because it's a "Bad Moons Stratagem" and not an "Orks Stratagem". There is a reason why the errata'd Agents of Vect to have the "You must have a Kabal of the Black Heart Model" rider, because the subheading has no rules meaning.

Baring any definition to the contrary, we default to what the English meaning of an "Ork Stratagem" is, which of course is ambiguous (thanks GW) but I don't see it as unreasonable to define it as "A stratagem found in the Ork Codex." as opposed to "any stratagem that can be used by Orks", because the latter would include BRB stratagems too.


While this is an argument that can be made, I think it should be pointed out that if you want your arguments to make any kind of sense outside your own head, you should probably start by explaining why something that appears to be clearly labeled, is not. Because after reading your explanation - grots being able to use Showin' Off, and any DE unit being able to use AOV pre-faq - I agree, RAW unless it gets FAQ'd Killa Kanz can use the stratagem. But without that context, it doesn't make sense, and I think it's pretty fair to say that nobody cares about warhammer 40k rules minutiae the same way you seem to.

Next time, if you were to say "Vigilus stratagems are not Ork Stratagems because for the Grots rule to work, Ork Stratagems must mean any stratagem in the Ork Codex" then you would not need to type several paragraphs, and you could avoid using up a small quantity of the world's supply of condescension.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 20:49:18


Post by: BaconCatBug


TIL explaining your argument thoroughly is condescending.

I am not being condescending, I apologise if you somehow interpreted that way.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 22:36:07


Post by: office_waaagh


 BaconCatBug wrote:
That subheader has zero rules meaning. By your logic I can use "Showin' Off" on my Mek Gunz now because it's a "Bad Moons Stratagem" and not an "Orks Stratagem". There is a reason why the errata'd Agents of Vect to have the "You must have a Kabal of the Black Heart Model" rider, because the subheading has no rules meaning.

Baring any definition to the contrary, we default to what the English meaning of an "Ork Stratagem" is, which of course is ambiguous (thanks GW) but I don't see it as unreasonable to define it as "A stratagem found in the Ork Codex." as opposed to "any stratagem that can be used by Orks", because the latter would include BRB stratagems too.
I see your point, but I would interpret "Ork Stratagem" for the purposes of the Grot rule to mean "any stratagem exclusive to Orks", including all stratagems in the Ork codex and any other Ork-exclusive stratagems that may be added later, such as in Vigilus Defiant. I believe this is the most natural interpretation of the terminology, and that consequently Killa Kans cannot use Dread Waaagh! stratagems. An FAQ would be nice, but I think for planning purposes it's better to err on the side of being conservative if there's a rule that can be interpreted in two ways.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/10 22:46:15


Post by: Grimskul


Dread WAAAGH! was one of my hopes for Kanz to be semi-viable. Whelp, guess I was wrong. I would be ecstatic for GW to FAQ it to work for them, but until then, RAW, it doesn't.

Pay F to pay respectz, boyz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 00:32:28


Post by: SemperMortis


 Grimskul wrote:
Dread WAAAGH! was one of my hopes for Kanz to be semi-viable. Whelp, guess I was wrong. I would be ecstatic for GW to FAQ it to work for them, but until then, RAW, it doesn't.

Pay F to pay respectz, boyz.


Hell even if it did work for them they would still suck. The fact is that a fething Imperial Guard Sentinel is a better Walker than the KillaKan. Cheaper, more durable, better weapons and faster. GW just needs to unfeth themselves.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 00:33:31


Post by: Rismonite


"Rukkatrukk Lunchbuggy's niche is to provide a Squigmine in front of the Lootabomb, provide semi useful fire support, and help allow Lootas to Loot it once it inevitably blows up."

Change my mind


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 01:05:51


Post by: SemperMortis


 Rismonite wrote:
"Rukkatrukk Lunchbuggy's niche is to provide a Squigmine in front of the Lootabomb, provide semi useful fire support, and help allow Lootas to Loot it once it inevitably blows up."

Change my mind


It is an overpriced POS


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 03:41:11


Post by: Dr.Duck


Like all the dread detach has to do is give kans the ability to get clan traits and be effected by strats and they become viable.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 05:31:44


Post by: office_waaagh


 Rismonite wrote:
"Rukkatrukk Lunchbuggy's niche is to provide a Squigmine in front of the Lootabomb, provide semi useful fire support, and help allow Lootas to Loot it once it inevitably blows up."

Change my mind

I don't really think it has a niche, honestly. At 140 points, it's just not justifiable in my opinion. For 9 points more, you can have a trukk with 5 Lootas or Tankbustas in it that does a lot more for you than 3d6 shots wounding on 4's with no AP. The mine doesn't seem worth it either. Frankly, I can't think of any role for it in an army. (I haven't played with the model, so take my opinion for what it's worth).

This is more a case of "hey guys, we made a sweet model that's Orky as all and here are the rules if you want to use it in a game" rather than "the Ork army has a weakness and here is a unit that it needs to function." I do love the model. The fat Ork on the back with the shotgun is brilliant. I just can't think of anything it does that something else can't do better.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 06:30:46


Post by: tneva82


 Rismonite wrote:
"Rukkatrukk Lunchbuggy's niche is to provide a Squigmine in front of the Lootabomb, provide semi useful fire support, and help allow Lootas to Loot it once it inevitably blows up."

Change my mind


That squigmine isn't going to discourage anybody from assaulting loota star. It's bad fire support and if you want loot it just slap mek gun nearby. It's even more likely to be fired to death by being bigger threat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 06:49:58


Post by: Jidmah


 Rismonite wrote:
"Rukkatrukk Lunchbuggy's niche is to provide a Squigmine in front of the Lootabomb, provide semi useful fire support, and help allow Lootas to Loot it once it inevitably blows up."

Change my mind


If you think "has the ability to die" for is worth 140 points to you, go for it?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 08:15:13


Post by: Blackie


Put 30 boyz between the 25 lootas and their grot shields if you want to discourage people from assaulting the lootas. This way you could place the grots way far from them which is what you want for their shielding role but without leaving dangerous holes to fast flying assaulting stuff.

If the opponent is Black Heart drukhari and can negate Grot Shields by using Agents of Vect those boyz also provide the LD for the remaining lootas. You can jump those boyz later if you need them elsewhere.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 12:44:28


Post by: the_scotsman


SemperMortis wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
Dread WAAAGH! was one of my hopes for Kanz to be semi-viable. Whelp, guess I was wrong. I would be ecstatic for GW to FAQ it to work for them, but until then, RAW, it doesn't.

Pay F to pay respectz, boyz.


Hell even if it did work for them they would still suck. The fact is that a fething Imperial Guard Sentinel is a better Walker than the KillaKan. Cheaper, more durable, better weapons and faster. GW just needs to unfeth themselves.


Cheaper: Depends on build. A big shoota kan is cheaper than a missile launcher plasma cannon or lascannon scout sentinel, those better weapons you were talking about.

More durable: Very similar, but 1 point of save is better than 1 point of wounds versus almost all weaponry.

better weapons: All sentinel weapons are Heavy, which is a real problem. The sentinel's weapons are only better if it stands completely stationary, to avoid the BS5+ that would make it worse at shooting than the kan.

faster: yep. Of course, if you use this, it's worse at shooting than the kan, which takes us to the last point of the fact that the kan is equipped with the equivalent of a space marine wielding a thunder hammer versus the sentinel which has 1 S5 Ap- D1 attack in melee. That's a bit of a difference right there, and it really should cost something.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 14:45:40


Post by: SemperMortis


the_scotsman wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
Dread WAAAGH! was one of my hopes for Kanz to be semi-viable. Whelp, guess I was wrong. I would be ecstatic for GW to FAQ it to work for them, but until then, RAW, it doesn't.

Pay F to pay respectz, boyz.


Hell even if it did work for them they would still suck. The fact is that a fething Imperial Guard Sentinel is a better Walker than the KillaKan. Cheaper, more durable, better weapons and faster. GW just needs to unfeth themselves.


Cheaper: Depends on build. A big shoota kan is cheaper than a missile launcher plasma cannon or lascannon scout sentinel, those better weapons you were talking about.

More durable: Very similar, but 1 point of save is better than 1 point of wounds versus almost all weaponry.

better weapons: All sentinel weapons are Heavy, which is a real problem. The sentinel's weapons are only better if it stands completely stationary, to avoid the BS5+ that would make it worse at shooting than the kan.

faster: yep. Of course, if you use this, it's worse at shooting than the kan, which takes us to the last point of the fact that the kan is equipped with the equivalent of a space marine wielding a thunder hammer versus the sentinel which has 1 S5 Ap- D1 attack in melee. That's a bit of a difference right there, and it really should cost something.


Cheaper: Base Sentinel = 30pts Base Kan = 40 (Klaw is a free weapon but even if priced at 5pts its still more expensive)
A Sentinel with a Missile launcher or a Lascannon is 50pts. So 5pts to upgrade from a S5 ranged 36 3 shot gun to a S9 1 shot gun with -3 AP and D6 damage.

More Durable: Not very similar. Sentinel is T6 with 6 Wounds, a Kan is T5 with 5 wounds.

Better weapons: ACROSS THE BOARD BETTER! Lascannon, Missile Launcher, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer, auto cannon and Plasma Cannon vs Big Shoota, Rokkit and KMB. Yeah, most of those are heavy, but all of them are Ranged 36+, the Missile Launcher and the Lascannon are 48, they don't need to move most of the time.

Faster: Yes it is faster, and if you give it a HEAVY FLAMER it can actually have a chance to get in range to use it. And the Kan is in fact armed with a S8 -3AP 3 damage close combat weapon with 3 attacks, damn shame it HITS ON A 5! So those 3 attacks actually equal 1 hit on average and against anything above T4 its a 33-50% chance to do 3 damage. So against cheap infantry like Space Marines you are statistically likely to kill 1 a turn.....so long as you can walk slowly across the board and not die.

It isn't even a contest dude, the Sentinel is better in every category except close combat where its in favor of the kan....SO if it can slowly walk across the board it can benefit from being better at CC even though its apparently paying 10pts more for the chance to get into CC and excel vs the Sentinel which is just better starting turn 1.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 15:07:10


Post by: Blackie


The sentinel is also FA which helps filling out brigades since there are tons of HS for AM and only hellhounds as viable FA IIRC. Kanz would have been better if FA since we also have tons of effective HS.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 15:31:40


Post by: the_scotsman


SemperMortis wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
Dread WAAAGH! was one of my hopes for Kanz to be semi-viable. Whelp, guess I was wrong. I would be ecstatic for GW to FAQ it to work for them, but until then, RAW, it doesn't.

Pay F to pay respectz, boyz.


Hell even if it did work for them they would still suck. The fact is that a fething Imperial Guard Sentinel is a better Walker than the KillaKan. Cheaper, more durable, better weapons and faster. GW just needs to unfeth themselves.


Cheaper: Depends on build. A big shoota kan is cheaper than a missile launcher plasma cannon or lascannon scout sentinel, those better weapons you were talking about.

More durable: Very similar, but 1 point of save is better than 1 point of wounds versus almost all weaponry.

better weapons: All sentinel weapons are Heavy, which is a real problem. The sentinel's weapons are only better if it stands completely stationary, to avoid the BS5+ that would make it worse at shooting than the kan.

faster: yep. Of course, if you use this, it's worse at shooting than the kan, which takes us to the last point of the fact that the kan is equipped with the equivalent of a space marine wielding a thunder hammer versus the sentinel which has 1 S5 Ap- D1 attack in melee. That's a bit of a difference right there, and it really should cost something.


Cheaper: Base Sentinel = 30pts Base Kan = 40 (Klaw is a free weapon but even if priced at 5pts its still more expensive)
A Sentinel with a Missile launcher or a Lascannon is 50pts. So 5pts to upgrade from a S5 ranged 36 3 shot gun to a S9 1 shot gun with -3 AP and D6 damage.

More Durable: Not very similar. Sentinel is T6 with 6 Wounds, a Kan is T5 with 5 wounds.

Better weapons: ACROSS THE BOARD BETTER! Lascannon, Missile Launcher, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer, auto cannon and Plasma Cannon vs Big Shoota, Rokkit and KMB. Yeah, most of those are heavy, but all of them are Ranged 36+, the Missile Launcher and the Lascannon are 48, they don't need to move most of the time.

Faster: Yes it is faster, and if you give it a HEAVY FLAMER it can actually have a chance to get in range to use it. And the Kan is in fact armed with a S8 -3AP 3 damage close combat weapon with 3 attacks, damn shame it HITS ON A 5! So those 3 attacks actually equal 1 hit on average and against anything above T4 its a 33-50% chance to do 3 damage. So against cheap infantry like Space Marines you are statistically likely to kill 1 a turn.....so long as you can walk slowly across the board and not die.

It isn't even a contest dude, the Sentinel is better in every category except close combat where its in favor of the kan....SO if it can slowly walk across the board it can benefit from being better at CC even though its apparently paying 10pts more for the chance to get into CC and excel vs the Sentinel which is just better starting turn 1.


God, this is just the laziest....

The Kan essentially has weapons that are the same as the sentinel's, with shorter range but without Heavy. Rokkit = Missile launcher (Warning you now, if you say "frag missile" I will laugh at you, nobody has used one of those since 8th dropped). KMB = lascannon. Big Shoota = the redundant multilaser/hb. Scorcha = HF. Grotzooka is indeed pretty much garbage, and should never be used.

Sentinels are T5 W6 4+. Kanz are T5 W5 3+. As I said before, the point of armor on the kan makes it more durable against everything but AP-4 than the sentinel.

The sentinel has to be a stationary turret unless you give it a heavy flamer, in which case the melee capabilities of the kan come into play. Phrase the kan's melee output as hits if it makes you feel better, it remains a fact that the kan does 1.65 damage on average to a standard vehicle, versus the...let's see.... .055 damage on average from the Sentinel - 0, essentially.

It costs 13 points to upgrade a boss nob with a power klaw to deal an average of 1.66 damage to a vehicle in melee.

It costs 10 points to go from a HB/Multilaser scout sentinel to a Big Shoota Kan, 10 points to go from a Heavy Flamer Sentinel to a Scorcha kan, -1 point to go from a Lascannon sentinel to a KMB Kan, and 2 points to go from a ML sentinel to a rokkit kan.

I wonder where those points are going.

Maybe it's the upgrade from 0 damage in melee to the same damage a power klaw nob does.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 15:53:01


Post by: tneva82


Funny that point about frag missiles. My orks and grots gets plastered by those rather than krak's all the time.

Kan klaw is irrelevant as no opponent will let you charge vehicle seeing how easy they die. So you pay for nothing.

And they take hs slot which is bad. At fa they might have some role. At hs no


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 15:59:04


Post by: PiñaColada


Is this a comparison between scout sentinels and kans? Because armoured sentinels are 6W with a 3+


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 16:08:41


Post by: Billagio


So are Deff Dreads actually good now? TPing them in seems like a nice plan considering you can split them off at separate targets. How do we feel about the SC box now? Seems pretty strong now that DD are better and nobz got a boost


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 16:09:33


Post by: the_scotsman


PiñaColada wrote:
Is this a comparison between scout sentinels and kans? Because armoured sentinels are 6W with a 3+


It is indeed, because I have never seen an armored sentinel in the wild. Scouts get used all the time because they can do the pregame scoot and push back the deep strike frontline.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
Funny that point about frag missiles. My orks and grots gets plastered by those rather than krak's all the time.

Kan klaw is irrelevant as no opponent will let you charge vehicle seeing how easy they die. So you pay for nothing.

And they take hs slot which is bad. At fa they might have some role. At hs no


if my oppponent wants to kill an average of 1 boy with a 50 point model I will remove that boy and thank him.

If you're going to dismiss melee capabilities on slower units as worthless then I'm wondering why you're not super mad that talos and grotesques didnt get a huge points drop in CA. After all they basically only have melee weapons, shouldn't they be like 20ppm?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 16:15:33


Post by: tneva82


 Billagio wrote:
So are Deff Dreads actually good now? TPing them in seems like a nice plan considering you can split them off at separate targets. How do we feel about the SC box now? Seems pretty strong now that DD are better and nobz got a boost


Issue is with screens making getting more than 1 into charge range of anything worthwhile in any decent terrain. Not able to ignore ruins like infantry hurts. Last tuesday(battle report here) i indeed had trouble deep striking to my own dz let alone enemy due to random enemy models here and there. Out of 3 dreads one could charge at lib dread. Rest had minimum of dredd base more to clear.

I'm rethinking idea of 3dredds. 2 might be better unless you have lots of screen clearing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:


if my oppponent wants to kill an average of 1 boy with a 50 point model I will remove that boy and thank him.

If you're going to dismiss melee capabilities on slower units as worthless then I'm wondering why you're not super mad that talos and grotesques didnt get a huge points drop in CA. After all they basically only have melee weapons, shouldn't they be like 20ppm?




When opponent has t4 w1 6+ and t2 w1 6+ models as only targets where the 4 devastators with missiles will shoot and what? Krak missile is worse.

And lol at talos comparison. Totally different unit as even cursory glance reveals. Hint: talon actually can make into combat and is better there. Kan just pays lots of points for that ability that comes very rarely into play



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 16:20:35


Post by: the_scotsman


tneva82 wrote:
 Billagio wrote:
So are Deff Dreads actually good now? TPing them in seems like a nice plan considering you can split them off at separate targets. How do we feel about the SC box now? Seems pretty strong now that DD are better and nobz got a boost


Issue is with screens making getting more than 1 into charge range of anything worthwhile in any decent terrain. Not able to ignore ruins like infantry hurts. Last tuesday(battle report here) i indeed had trouble deep striking to my own dz let alone enemy due to random enemy models here and there. Out of 3 dreads one could charge at lib dread. Rest had minimum of dredd base more to clear.

I'm rethinking idea of 3dredds. 2 might be better unless you have lots of screen clearing


Of the three different kinds of "big thing you deep stirke" in the codex my favorite has been meganobz, followed by gorkanaut, followed by 3 dreads.

MANZ can charge things on upper levels and go through terrain, and overall seem to have a more flexible footprint (One model can be up in the front and the rest can file in behind him and rely on pile-ins to get in)

Gorka can drop in and use Rammin' Speed on himself, plus he brings a decent chaff clearing tool in his gun. only problem is the goofy giant base.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 16:24:40


Post by: greggles


Agree with the 3 deff dreads. It's hard to make work. Two seems to be the magic number to teleport in.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 16:46:51


Post by: buddha


 greggles wrote:
Agree with the 3 deff dreads. It's hard to make work. Two seems to be the magic number to teleport in.


Can report decent success with 2. True distraction carnifexes as they cannot be ignored even if they fail the initial charge.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 17:40:07


Post by: Billagio


Interesting. Thanks for the thoughts, I just feel weird not bringing the max 3 but thats just me I guess. SC (or 2) a good buy then?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 18:37:56


Post by: crzylgs


SC box is a decent buy imo - especially if you have access to 3rd party sellers who often (in UK at least) do -20% or so off RRP.

You'll have a spare Painboy but could probably kitbash him in to something.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 18:55:19


Post by: Coh Magnussen


With 3 deff-dreads, is the problem finding somewhere to put them or finding somewhere to put them where they can charge? Would 2 melee dreads and 1 shooty dread (or 1 melee and 2 shooty) make that any better?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 19:09:12


Post by: greggles


If you have a shooty dread, better to walk them, since they can be firing from turn 1. (24 inch range on the Kmb's is pretty broad).

It's mainly positioning them so that more then one can charge, of if it is even possible to place them due to not clearing enough screen. Generally with 3, the 3rd one ends up sitting behind the other two. And since they act individually after they land, you also have to be careful you don't block los for the back dread with the front dreads you are trying to charge with!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 19:12:38


Post by: the_scotsman


Coh Magnussen wrote:
With 3 deff-dreads, is the problem finding somewhere to put them or finding somewhere to put them where they can charge? Would 2 melee dreads and 1 shooty dread (or 1 melee and 2 shooty) make that any better?


Like the gorkanaut, they have big meaty bases that are tough to get in a good position around pesky screening models, but unlike the gorkanaut only 1/3 of them can use Rammin Speed to greatly open up their charge range.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 19:50:46


Post by: Sal4m4nd3r


Ran a green tide (lite-ish) last night vs mortifactors and a knight (RF battle cannon and gatling gun of some kind). Morti's had 2 dev squads (4x plasma, 4x missiles), 2 x5 scouts with snipers and missiles, bunch of primaris intercessors, chapter master (some sort of strategem to make him a chapter master with lots of re-rolls), tactical squad shields (LOL) for my charges, predator tank.

I had in a Goff Battalion - 120 boyz with choppa/slugga, warboss with killa klaw and brutal but kunnin, big mek with KFF, 5x smasha guns.

Evil sunz battalion had 2x 10 grots, 2 weirdboys (one with da jump, one with fists of gork and warpath - warp 'ead), 30 more boys (20x shoota, 9 choppa/slugga and nob with BC), 2x 10 kommandos

And a Aux detachment of 15 lootas. This was a casual game but we still like to make good lists. He targetted the mek guns pretty quickly. took 3 of them out first turn. I fired back with lootas and took out the 4x plasma squad. shot a second time and took out the predator.

Took a huge risk and TRIED to get fists of gork on my warboss but failed. But I da jumped him 9" from the knight by himself. did 16 wounds to him. All 4 hit, wounded and went through. If I had FoG go off, I could have one shotted him. That was fun. Lootas and rest smashas chipped away at him until he died. The 180 boys did VERY well. I called this greentide-lite because I opted for 20 kommandos over upgrading the warboss the ghaz and didnt take painboys, and ONLY 180 boys. Was still fun. Some (read: a lot) of boys died as the marine player played it right by backing away and rapid firing, allowing tacs to die and counter charging. In the end we sort of just wiped each other out. Killed the chapter master with my last ork LOL.

In the end one of his 5 or so marines grabbed the relic and won.. but that was sort of a footnote in this game for us. We had a blast and everything died. Great game.

Green tide is viable and competitive I get the sense... but you MUST commit to it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/11 21:23:53


Post by: office_waaagh


 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Green tide is viable and competitive I get the sense... but you MUST commit to it.

I feel like "you must commit to it" is sound advice no matter what the list building concept. Mixing and matching different units has never been a great way to go with Orks, it's always pick two or three units and spam like you're a lazy single father making dinner on his weekend with the kids.

How did the Goff kultur do for you? My first thought on seeing your list is "I would have run the big battalion as Evil Sunz and the smaller one as Bad Moonz with the Lootas and shoota boyz." To me the main reason to take Goffs would be either for extra attacks with something like Nobz or to make the boyz into Skarboyz. But I'm totally open to being wrong, I'd love to see big hordes of Goffs wrecking face.

Actually, Snakebites would have been a good kultur too, just for the free FnP without a Painboy, now I think about it. Since "it would be better as Evil Sunz" hardly seems original or insightful at this point.

Curious to get your take on whether you'd go with Goffs again for that list.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 00:23:03


Post by: SemperMortis


the_scotsman wrote:

The Kan essentially has weapons that are the same as the sentinel's, with shorter range but without Heavy. Rokkit = Missile launcher (Warning you now, if you say "frag missile" I will laugh at you, nobody has used one of those since 8th dropped). KMB = lascannon. Big Shoota = the redundant multilaser/hb. Scorcha = HF. Grotzooka is indeed pretty much garbage, and should never be used.

It costs 10 points to go from a HB/Multilaser scout sentinel to a Big Shoota Kan, 10 points to go from a Heavy Flamer Sentinel to a Scorcha kan, -1 point to go from a Lascannon sentinel to a KMB Kan, and 2 points to go from a ML sentinel to a rokkit kan.

I wonder where those points are going.

Maybe it's the upgrade from 0 damage in melee to the same damage a power klaw nob does.


Apparently we had a miscommunication. I am talking about ARMORED sentinels. They now cost 30ppm base without weapons thanks to CA 2018. Lets chalk that point up to oops on both our parts for not clarifying. The armored sentinel is T6 6W with a 3+ save.

As for the weapons...again, KMB = Lascannon, a Killakan with a KMB Is 49pts. its got a max range of 18 and if you roll a 1 to hit you suffer a mortal wound. The Armored Sentinel with a lascannon costs 50pts, 1 pt more. Its S9 as opposed to S8 which is a big deal vs T8 vehicles like Knights, and more importantly is 48in range! How often do 48 range weapons have to move around a game? Not to often would be my guess.
A Multi-Laser Sentinel is 35pts now which is S6 Ranged 36 3 shots HEAVY, a Big Shoota Armed Kan is 45pts S5 ranged 36 3 shots assault. So a slight advantage in assault vs heavy but completely negated by S6 vs S5 and then you throw in the 10pt difference and amazing nobody at all, the Multi-Laser sentinel is better.
A Missile Launcher armored sentinel is 45pts. Ranged 48 heavy 1 S8 -2AP D6 damage, a Rokkit armed Killakan is 52pts for a ranged 24 assault 1 S8-2AP D6 rokkit. So twice the range and 7pts cheaper....again, sentinel wins.
The Heavy Flamer/Skorcha comparison sucks even worse because they are literally the same weapon in every way but the Heavy Flamer is 3pts cheaper and the Armored Sentinel is 10pts cheaper base so easy win for hte sentinel.

So yeah, Armored Sentinels are literally just better than Killa Kanz in every way shape and form except in Close combat....and again, how often are Kanz really getting into CC? and even when they do they are still WS5.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 06:38:24


Post by: tneva82


 greggles wrote:
If you have a shooty dread, better to walk them, since they can be firing from turn 1. (24 inch range on the Kmb's is pretty broad).

It's mainly positioning them so that more then one can charge, of if it is even possible to place them due to not clearing enough screen. Generally with 3, the 3rd one ends up sitting behind the other two. And since they act individually after they land, you also have to be careful you don't block los for the back dread with the front dreads you are trying to charge with!


Or even have to deploy them in column...

Blocking LOS is pretty hard seeing they have these wide open areas in legs and any random point from feet to random point to enemy feet whatever is pretty hard to block. You can draw LOS this way through rhino's bottom...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:

As for the weapons...again, KMB = Lascannon, a Killakan with a KMB Is 49pts. its got a max range of 18 and if you roll a 1 to hit you suffer a mortal wound. The Armored Sentinel with a lascannon costs 50pts, 1 pt more. Its S9 as opposed to S8 which is a big deal vs T8 vehicles like Knights, and more importantly is 48in range! How often do 48 range weapons have to move around a game? Not to often would be my guess.
A Multi-Laser Sentinel is 35pts now which is S6 Ranged 36 3 shots HEAVY, a Big Shoota Armed Kan is 45pts S5 ranged 36 3 shots assault. So a slight advantage in assault vs heavy but completely negated by S6 vs S5 and then you throw in the 10pt difference and amazing nobody at all, the Multi-Laser sentinel is better.
A Missile Launcher armored sentinel is 45pts. Ranged 48 heavy 1 S8 -2AP D6 damage, a Rokkit armed Killakan is 52pts for a ranged 24 assault 1 S8-2AP D6 rokkit. So twice the range and 7pts cheaper....again, sentinel wins.
The Heavy Flamer/Skorcha comparison sucks even worse because they are literally the same weapon in every way but the Heavy Flamer is 3pts cheaper and the Armored Sentinel is 10pts cheaper base so easy win for hte sentinel.

So yeah, Armored Sentinels are literally just better than Killa Kanz in every way shape and form except in Close combat....and again, how often are Kanz really getting into CC? and even when they do they are still WS5.


KMB has actually 24" range.

And actually for kan's defence assault over heavy does matter. Range isn't everything. There's this thing called "LOS" as well. For example last sunday my lootas kept da jumping because that was needed to get LOS(at least to anything meaningfull. Do I want to fire at 3 firewarriors or riptide? I had to da jump on turns 2 and 3 just to get LOS as it wasn't hard for opponent to use LOS blocking to cover from lootas).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 08:36:14


Post by: Kebabcito


I've got better results with a footslogg green tide army than with mechanic army.

My list now is hybrid, 2x30 boyz, some gretchlins, warboss, weirdboy and bigmeKFF foot. 3 deffkoptas, 10 tankbustas in BW and 10 nobz in trukk. I've got a lot of bodies for a 1500 match, but running 120 boyz is quite useless imho


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 13:28:59


Post by: Sal4m4nd3r


 office_waaagh wrote:
 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Green tide is viable and competitive I get the sense... but you MUST commit to it.

I feel like "you must commit to it" is sound advice no matter what the list building concept. Mixing and matching different units has never been a great way to go with Orks, it's always pick two or three units and spam like you're a lazy single father making dinner on his weekend with the kids.

How did the Goff kultur do for you? My first thought on seeing your list is "I would have run the big battalion as Evil Sunz and the smaller one as Bad Moonz with the Lootas and shoota boyz." To me the main reason to take Goffs would be either for extra attacks with something like Nobz or to make the boyz into Skarboyz. But I'm totally open to being wrong, I'd love to see big hordes of Goffs wrecking face.

Actually, Snakebites would have been a good kultur too, just for the free FnP without a Painboy, now I think about it. Since "it would be better as Evil Sunz" hardly seems original or insightful at this point.

Curious to get your take on whether you'd go with Goffs again for that list.


I will be honest, the only reason it was evil suns was I originally had a big unit of meganobz for tellyporting in the list instead of the auxiliary detachment of bad moons lootas, but I physically forgot to bring the models with me to my game Since I was already changing my list nearly at deployment (when we were pulling our models out) I didnt want to chnage the list up radically in front of my buddy. But yes, normally snakebites would be preffered for the weirdboys to get a save against blowing thier 'eads off. And bonus.. I ahve a bunch of forest goblins from the aos spider riders kit I can use as grots.

I freaking love the goffs. I usually do run several units of skarboyz. I make sure to alwasy save 3 cp for the unstoppable green tide strat because they tend to get attention. But popping extra hits on 6s that hit on 3s (2s if you have a waaagghh! banner) on boys is dope. It usually works out where the extra hits, completely cover the missed hits I had. I have been running all different kinds of lists trying to try and figure out what I like and what is good. So far for me its boyz, meganobz and mek gunz. goff meganobz are amazing btw... those extra hits are so impactful. but its to tempting to get the +1 charge for tellyporting. kommandos were great as evils suns for the same reason... but 10 in a unit did nothing. wasnt small enough to simply contest on obj. Wasnt big enough to be a threat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 14:13:01


Post by: addnid


I wonder how effective would 120 boys really be if people were forced to play them on their "new" 32 mm base... Especially in the assault phase, as not many would be able to do their attacks


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 16:48:28


Post by: Castozor


Less effective obviously but good luck forcing me to rebase them. And I think someone else mentioned that when deployed right you can still get them to fight in at least 3 ranks, so you don't lose much.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 16:51:59


Post by: greggles


addnid,
I have boyz on 32mm. I run my 30 strong squads as 20 choppa/slugga, and 10 shoota. At most I get about 20 to swing in combat, so the shootas are there to take as casuilties and to do a bit of dakka while I close the gap.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 16:59:51


Post by: Vineheart01


thats one thing i always forget to do is mix shoota/slugga, im so used to "All or None" with shootas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 17:11:17


Post by: PiñaColada


So how does the "Turbo-boostas" stratagem work with evil sunz?

Evil sunz bikers have a 14" + they add 2" to their move characteristic and that stratagem doubles your movement characteristic.

So does it double the 14" to 28" and then add the extra 2 from evil sunz for a total of 30? Or does it add the ES first so it goes up to 16 and then doubles to 32?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 17:15:12


Post by: BaconCatBug


PiñaColada wrote:
So how does the "Turbo-boostas" stratagem work with evil sunz?

Evil sunz bikers have a 14" + they add 2" to their move characteristic and that stratagem doubles your movement characteristic.

So does it double the 14" to 28" and then add the extra 2 from evil sunz for a total of 30? Or does it add the ES first so it goes up to 16 and then doubles to 32?
BRB Page 175, Modifying Characteristics Sidebar, Paragraph 2.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 17:18:56


Post by: PiñaColada


 BaconCatBug wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
So how does the "Turbo-boostas" stratagem work with evil sunz?

Evil sunz bikers have a 14" + they add 2" to their move characteristic and that stratagem doubles your movement characteristic.

So does it double the 14" to 28" and then add the extra 2 from evil sunz for a total of 30? Or does it add the ES first so it goes up to 16 and then doubles to 32?
BRB Page 175, Modifying Characteristics Sidebar, Paragraph 2.

Okay thanks! So in this case they'd get a 30" move then, correct?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 18:01:40


Post by: the_scotsman


SemperMortis wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

The Kan essentially has weapons that are the same as the sentinel's, with shorter range but without Heavy. Rokkit = Missile launcher (Warning you now, if you say "frag missile" I will laugh at you, nobody has used one of those since 8th dropped). KMB = lascannon. Big Shoota = the redundant multilaser/hb. Scorcha = HF. Grotzooka is indeed pretty much garbage, and should never be used.

It costs 10 points to go from a HB/Multilaser scout sentinel to a Big Shoota Kan, 10 points to go from a Heavy Flamer Sentinel to a Scorcha kan, -1 point to go from a Lascannon sentinel to a KMB Kan, and 2 points to go from a ML sentinel to a rokkit kan.

I wonder where those points are going.

Maybe it's the upgrade from 0 damage in melee to the same damage a power klaw nob does.


Apparently we had a miscommunication. I am talking about ARMORED sentinels. They now cost 30ppm base without weapons thanks to CA 2018. Lets chalk that point up to oops on both our parts for not clarifying. The armored sentinel is T6 6W with a 3+ save.

As for the weapons...again, KMB = Lascannon, a Killakan with a KMB Is 49pts. its got a max range of 18 and if you roll a 1 to hit you suffer a mortal wound. The Armored Sentinel with a lascannon costs 50pts, 1 pt more. Its S9 as opposed to S8 which is a big deal vs T8 vehicles like Knights, and more importantly is 48in range! How often do 48 range weapons have to move around a game? Not to often would be my guess.
A Multi-Laser Sentinel is 35pts now which is S6 Ranged 36 3 shots HEAVY, a Big Shoota Armed Kan is 45pts S5 ranged 36 3 shots assault. So a slight advantage in assault vs heavy but completely negated by S6 vs S5 and then you throw in the 10pt difference and amazing nobody at all, the Multi-Laser sentinel is better.
A Missile Launcher armored sentinel is 45pts. Ranged 48 heavy 1 S8 -2AP D6 damage, a Rokkit armed Killakan is 52pts for a ranged 24 assault 1 S8-2AP D6 rokkit. So twice the range and 7pts cheaper....again, sentinel wins.
The Heavy Flamer/Skorcha comparison sucks even worse because they are literally the same weapon in every way but the Heavy Flamer is 3pts cheaper and the Armored Sentinel is 10pts cheaper base so easy win for hte sentinel.

So yeah, Armored Sentinels are literally just better than Killa Kanz in every way shape and form except in Close combat....and again, how often are Kanz really getting into CC? and even when they do they are still WS5.


The original post I responded to about this was talking about scout sentinels, presumably because scout sentinels have a reason to exist. Armored Sentinels are (even at equal points) totally outclassed by Scout Sentinels simply because Scouts can do the 9" move pregame to push back the deep strike bubble.

That's what they do. That's the entirety of what they do. If you think a 35-point model that puts out 3 S6 AP- shots is in any way usable on its own merits, I'm not sure what to say to you. Scout sentinels have a point in competitive lists because they are a cheap fast attack slot model that grants a minor advantage against armies that use top of turn 1 deep strike alpha strikes.

The reason armored sentinels are pointless is honestly the same reason that killa kanz are pointless: Their job is done infinitely better by a HUGE number of alternative units within the Guard codex. The only reason Scouts are seen at all is that unlike killa kanz, those competitors are not in the same slot as them. "long range heavy weapon toting vehicles that can't move and must be screened to keep working" is something Guard has in droves, and "distraction carnifex that shoots a bit while it advances up the field" is something that Orks have in abundance.

Comparing the two units in a vacuum is asinine, because the usefulness of both is heavily affected by the codex they're in, but I absolutely disagree with you that an armored sentinel in a vacuum is in any way better than a killa kan. you have a unit that provides absolutely no pressure, no reason at all for any opponent to give a gak about it, that can be effortlessly invalidated by any unit down to and including gretchins, brimstones, etc because it can't fall back and shoot, and packs almost no weaponry capable of making its points back. 1 BS4 lascannon is not worth 50 points. 1 bs4 multilaser at 35 is laughable. If a killa kan was just a rokkit, it'd be worthless as well, but the very fact that you do lose yours points to the one thing that it is effective at doing, and that's absorbing firepower. Those 4 BS3+ lascannon shots it takes to kill that killa kan didn't go into a more valuable vehicle. Kanz are elevated from terrible to mediocre for the same reason Guard go from decent to drop-dead amazing: They die relatively slowly for their cost. 3+ T5 is a very efficient defensive statline if you can get your opponent to target it, which Armored Sentinels cant do, but kanz can.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 18:13:56


Post by: tneva82


Armoured sentinel still has role by virtue of being fa. Kans don't have any role. Just paying too much for pointless klaw.

As is i see armoured sentinels all the time. Kans never


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 19:59:02


Post by: flandarz


If you could Grotshield with Kanz, they'd be a lot more useful in footslogging lists, since they'd be an easy way to get Loot It. As it stands, Kanz just aren't useful for anything.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 20:13:03


Post by: Vineheart01


if Grotshield was worded differently, sure.
As is, thats a ~50pt single wound.... "model is slain"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 20:21:17


Post by: PiñaColada


Okay - hear me out.

I know this is dumb but 1 trukk filled with 10 nobz all with kombi-skorchas and 2 ammo runts.

Please talk me out of this idea


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 20:31:43


Post by: Sal4m4nd3r


PiñaColada wrote:
Okay - hear me out.

I know this is dumb but 1 trukk filled with 10 nobz all with kombi-skorchas and 2 ammo runts.

Please talk me out of this idea


The kombi skorcha (which you will fire probably once per game) is more points then the nob carrying it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 20:33:14


Post by: flandarz


 Vineheart01 wrote:
if Grotshield was worded differently, sure.
As is, thats a ~50pt single wound.... "model is slain"


I mean, the whole point was to get a better save on some Nobz or other footsloggers, so having a single Kan slog with them, get wiped, and pass on a save to the Nobz might be worth 50pts and 2CP.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 22:51:47


Post by: Castozor


At that point you might as well park em in a trukk for slightly more points but 1 cp less. Saves you the trouble of paying for the other 2 kanz as well.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/12 23:53:21


Post by: JimOnMars


 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Okay - hear me out.

I know this is dumb but 1 trukk filled with 10 nobz all with kombi-skorchas and 2 ammo runts.

Please talk me out of this idea


The kombi skorcha (which you will fire probably once per game) is more points then the nob carrying it.


Yep. And at an 8 inch range, you might get a dozen, maybe two, dead screen troops. Is that really worth a knight?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 00:04:08


Post by: flandarz


 Castozor wrote:
At that point you might as well park em in a trukk for slightly more points but 1 cp less. Saves you the trouble of paying for the other 2 kanz as well.


Well, you only gotta buy 1 Kan. And this is the hypothetical world where Kanz can Grotshield. Sure, you can put your Nobz in a Trukk, but you got a 1/6 chance of losing a Nob if they ain't disembarked before it's destroyed, so you're gonna lose 2 of them if you fill it up (on average). If they ain't embarked, your opponent can ignore the Trukk and just shoot the Nobz. And if they don't ignore it, you still got a 1/6 chance of losing a D3 Nobz when it explodes.

Basically, all I was saying is: Kanz might be worth taking if they could Grotshield because a nearly guaranteed Kan death means a +1 Save to your Nobz. Right now? There's nothing a Kan can do that anything else you have can't do better.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 00:11:21


Post by: JNAProductions


 flandarz wrote:
 Castozor wrote:
At that point you might as well park em in a trukk for slightly more points but 1 cp less. Saves you the trouble of paying for the other 2 kanz as well.


Well, you only gotta buy 1 Kan. And this is the hypothetical world where Kanz can Grotshield. Sure, you can put your Nobz in a Trukk, but you got a 1/6 chance of losing a Nob if they ain't disembarked before it's destroyed, so you're gonna lose 2 of them if you fill it up (on average). If they ain't embarked, your opponent can ignore the Trukk and just shoot the Nobz. And if they don't ignore it, you still got a 1/6 chance of losing a D3 Nobz when it explodes.

Basically, all I was saying is: Kanz might be worth taking if they could Grotshield because a nearly guaranteed Kan death means a +1 Save to your Nobz. Right now? There's nothing a Kan can do that anything else you have can't do better.


Take two Ammo Runts. You now have all Nobz survive on average.

And Explodes does NOT affect occupants.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 00:20:59


Post by: flandarz


It does not. That's why I included that as part of the "if your Nobz are disembarked" part. Specifically: "If they ain't embarked, your opponent can ignore the Trukk and just shoot the Nobz. And if they don't ignore it, you still got a 1/6 chance of losing a D3 Nobz when it explodes."

And yeah, sure. You can include some Ammo Runts. But, again, this is the hypothetical "Kanz can Grotshield" world. You could spend 64 pts, with a possibility to lose every single model in the Trukk (and an average of losing 2 Ammo Runts) to spend 1 CP and improve the Saves of 10 Nobs. Or, you could spend 45 pts, with no possibility to lose a model to a poor destroyed transport roll, to spent 2 CP and improve the Saves of 12 Nobz.

I'm not saying giving Kanz Grotshield will make them competitive. But dismissing them altogether seems shortsighted. I think that they could have a solid place in a Nob-heavy footslog list if they could shield Nobz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 00:27:36


Post by: JNAProductions


 flandarz wrote:
It does not. That's why I included that as part of the "if your Nobz are disembarked" part. Specifically: "If they ain't embarked, your opponent can ignore the Trukk and just shoot the Nobz. And if they don't ignore it, you still got a 1/6 chance of losing a D3 Nobz when it explodes."

And yeah, sure. You can include some Ammo Runts. But, again, this is the hypothetical "Kanz can Grotshield" world. You could spend 64 pts, with a possibility to lose every single model in the Trukk (and an average of losing 2 Ammo Runts) to spend 1 CP and improve the Saves of 10 Nobs. Or, you could spend 45 pts, with no possibility to lose a model to a poor destroyed transport roll, to spent 2 CP and improve the Saves of 12 Nobz.

I'm not saying giving Kanz Grotshield will make them competitive. But dismissing them altogether seems shortsighted. I think that they could have a solid place in a Nob-heavy footslog list if they could shield Nobz.


If we're talking statistical improbabilities, then it's possible you can roll a 1 for every Grot Shield roll.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but you need to actually have a Grot to take the wounds to have Grot Shields work, right? So let's say I have a squad of 10 DA Hellblasters next to Azrael, firing at Nobz.

20 shots, 17-18 hits, 14-15 wounds, no saves. Except, GROT SHIELDS TO THE RESCUE! For one wound. The other 13-14 go through.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 00:53:50


Post by: flandarz


10 DA Hellblasters will destroy a Trukk too. And if the opponent is smart, they'll bring 2 units of 5 instead. So, after destroying the Trukk with the first 5, they'll take down 7 Nobz with the second 5. Since you included 2 Ammo Runts who ate your 6s, you're down to 3 Nobz.

So yes, in the particular instance of someone swarming your Nobz with -4AP death guns, the Trukk wins out. Though, just barely, because at that point, what you gonna do with those last 3 Nobz, even with their increased Save? Whether you went with a Kan or a Trukk, you're in a bad situation once you got within 15" of that mess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean, if you just wanna hate Kanz and think there's no way they could ever be viable, just say it. It's ok. I'm not a fan either. I just think they could be better if they could Grotshield.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 01:30:53


Post by: Grimskul


So has any one made a feasible dred mob list yet so far? I've done MSU deathskulls, a bumblebee list (Goff Skarboyz deepstriking and Bad Moonz firebase), an Evil Sunz tellyport list and I'm probably off to try out a Freeboota list next. However, with the recent release of leaks for Vigilus, it's renewed my interest in Dred Mob somewhat. What klan would best suit them? For me it seems to boil down to either Bad Moonz, Deathskulls, Evil Sunz, or Snakebites.

Bad Moonz mainly for the reroll 1's to hit for potential multiple KMB Dakka Deff Dread loadouts and Morkanauts, Deathskullz for the built in invuln. and the re-rolls help a lot in and out of CC, Evil Sunz for tellyport units and just getting them stuck in faster, Snakebites since the 6+ FNP is more useful on multi-wound models and the WL trait is pretty good to deal with issues surrounding morale for Kanz.

With regards to the Dread WAAAAGH! detachment, the 2D6 shot Shokk Attack Gun relic is basically what the Deffskull relic should have been, so that's pushes towards Deffskullz at least being the klan of the specialist detachment. Would it be worth spending an extra CP to make the main detachment snakebites so you could have an extra Warlord trait just to make the Kanz immune to morale? Are Kanz even worth considering after the recent discussion over their "eh" place in the codex right now? Likewise for Meka Dreads, now that Deff Dreadz are much more viable than before.

Sorry if I'm rambling a bit, I'm really hoping to make Ork walkers work this edition.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 02:12:50


Post by: Dr.Duck


addnid wrote:
I wonder how effective would 120 boys really be if people were forced to play them on their "new" 32 mm base... Especially in the assault phase, as not many would be able to do their attacks


I think you are now incentivized more than ever to do a split of choppa shootas now that you can for sure only fight in two ranks to maximize damage output.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 03:05:36


Post by: Coh Magnussen


 Dr.Duck wrote:
now that you can for sure only fight in two ranks to maximize damage output.


Has anyone done the circle-math to see if it makes sense to not pack the closest rank 100% in order to have a few "2nd rank" models that are wedged halfway in between in order to get within 1" of the target to expand the combat zone? Or perhaps to avoid base-to-base, stay ~3/4" out in order to have a larger "circle" for the 2nd rank to fill? (both 1st and 2nd rank will be able to hold more models, for that matter)

-Coh


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 03:23:28


Post by: Quackzo


You can actually circle pack 32mm to get 4 ranks, there's less room for error than with 25mm. I believe the upper bound for 4 rank is a 35mm diameter give or take a mm. The reality is that it'll be harder to achieve and less boyz will span the front line of your mob.

A couple of points about the pros of 32mm that I haven't seen mentioned. It's great for area denial and board control, you're consuming about 28% more space then you were before. From a convenience perspective, your boyz will fall over a lot less. I used metal washers to help balance my boyz but on uneven terrain they still tipped over. 32mm + washers keeps my models upright. Saves a lot of time during movement and pile in as you don't have to fiddle as much.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 06:23:27


Post by: tneva82


 flandarz wrote:
If you could Grotshield with Kanz, they'd be a lot more useful in footslogging lists, since they'd be an easy way to get Loot It. As it stands, Kanz just aren't useful for anything.


WITH kans? I could see if you could grotshield kans but WITH kans? Lose kan on 2+ for redirecting hit? Why that would be good?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
It does not. That's why I included that as part of the "if your Nobz are disembarked" part. Specifically: "If they ain't embarked, your opponent can ignore the Trukk and just shoot the Nobz. And if they don't ignore it, you still got a 1/6 chance of losing a D3 Nobz when it explodes."

And yeah, sure. You can include some Ammo Runts. But, again, this is the hypothetical "Kanz can Grotshield" world. You could spend 64 pts, with a possibility to lose every single model in the Trukk (and an average of losing 2 Ammo Runts) to spend 1 CP and improve the Saves of 10 Nobs. Or, you could spend 45 pts, with no possibility to lose a model to a poor destroyed transport roll, to spent 2 CP and improve the Saves of 12 Nobz.

I'm not saying giving Kanz Grotshield will make them competitive. But dismissing them altogether seems shortsighted. I think that they could have a solid place in a Nob-heavy footslog list if they could shield Nobz.


There's HUGE cost you are ignoring here. Something that makes this strategy way too expensive.

You would lose your once per turn grot screen strategem. There's waaaay better uses for that. Opponent will be happy to give you that +1 for all that price and be able to blow up lootas, tank bustas, skarboyz, meganobz etc that he would be able to shoot otherwise.

Yet another price: No deep striking and thus limited to foot slogging so +1 save or not you are dead before combat anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 07:14:53


Post by: office_waaagh


 Grimskul wrote:
So has any one made a feasible dred mob list yet so far? I've done MSU deathskulls, a bumblebee list (Goff Skarboyz deepstriking and Bad Moonz firebase), an Evil Sunz tellyport list and I'm probably off to try out a Freeboota list next. However, with the recent release of leaks for Vigilus, it's renewed my interest in Dred Mob somewhat. What klan would best suit them? For me it seems to boil down to either Bad Moonz, Deathskulls, Evil Sunz, or Snakebites.

Bad Moonz mainly for the reroll 1's to hit for potential multiple KMB Dakka Deff Dread loadouts and Morkanauts, Deathskullz for the built in invuln. and the re-rolls help a lot in and out of CC, Evil Sunz for tellyport units and just getting them stuck in faster, Snakebites since the 6+ FNP is more useful on multi-wound models and the WL trait is pretty good to deal with issues surrounding morale for Kanz.

With regards to the Dread WAAAAGH! detachment, the 2D6 shot Shokk Attack Gun relic is basically what the Deffskull relic should have been, so that's pushes towards Deffskullz at least being the klan of the specialist detachment. Would it be worth spending an extra CP to make the main detachment snakebites so you could have an extra Warlord trait just to make the Kanz immune to morale? Are Kanz even worth considering after the recent discussion over their "eh" place in the codex right now? Likewise for Meka Dreads, now that Deff Dreadz are much more viable than before.

Sorry if I'm rambling a bit, I'm really hoping to make Ork walkers work this edition.

Honestly that 2d6 shokk attack gun might make the detachment worth it on its own (since you don't actually need to have any dreads in your dread Waaagh! for some reason). Put on a Deathskull with their warlord trait for character sniping and with some luck/rerolls he could be an absolute terror. I want to try out a deathskullz dred detachment with burna boyz with KMB meks and a morkanaut. Throw in a couple of double KMB dreads and it's 3D3+8 shots at S8 D6 damage AP-3 with a reroll per model (rough math averages 16 wounds vs T8 5++). Only really good target for the double shooting stratagem is probably a gork/morkanaut or maybe the souped up shokka character. Makes it a bit tough since the stratagems etc work best for shooting but a dread list is probably not going to win a shooting war with anyone, but I'm curious to try it out.

Honestly, outside of the souped up shokka and the shoot twice stratagem, Dred Waaagh! doesn't actually do much.

Regarding a hypothetical world in which you could Grot Shield with kanz...I still don't think it's a good use of the kan, but I don't believe you could use Loot it! since the vehicle isn't "destroyed," it's "slain". If you do want to use the kan as an armour bonus generator, there's nothing stopping you from doing so after your opponent kills it the old fashioned way, on account of not wanting to get kan klawed in the face. Though, again, I don't think it's a good idea.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 07:28:34


Post by: tneva82


 Grimskul wrote:
So has any one made a feasible dred mob list yet so far? I've done MSU deathskulls, a bumblebee list (Goff Skarboyz deepstriking and Bad Moonz firebase), an Evil Sunz tellyport list and I'm probably off to try out a Freeboota list next. However, with the recent release of leaks for Vigilus, it's renewed my interest in Dred Mob somewhat. What klan would best suit them? For me it seems to boil down to either Bad Moonz, Deathskulls, Evil Sunz, or Snakebites.

Bad Moonz mainly for the reroll 1's to hit for potential multiple KMB Dakka Deff Dread loadouts and Morkanauts, Deathskullz for the built in invuln. and the re-rolls help a lot in and out of CC, Evil Sunz for tellyport units and just getting them stuck in faster, Snakebites since the 6+ FNP is more useful on multi-wound models and the WL trait is pretty good to deal with issues surrounding morale for Kanz.

With regards to the Dread WAAAAGH! detachment, the 2D6 shot Shokk Attack Gun relic is basically what the Deffskull relic should have been, so that's pushes towards Deffskullz at least being the klan of the specialist detachment. Would it be worth spending an extra CP to make the main detachment snakebites so you could have an extra Warlord trait just to make the Kanz immune to morale? Are Kanz even worth considering after the recent discussion over their "eh" place in the codex right now? Likewise for Meka Dreads, now that Deff Dreadz are much more viable than before.

Sorry if I'm rambling a bit, I'm really hoping to make Ork walkers work this edition.


Odds of rolling multiple 1's is so small(even 1 isn't quaranteed with 4 KMB) that dethskull trumps bad moon. It's basically evil sun for deep striking, dethskulls for shooty ones.

And no kans. Just don't. They serve zero purpose. If they were FA they might be included but in HS they serve zero purpose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 office_waaagh wrote:
Honestly that 2d6 shokk attack gun might make the detachment worth it on its own (since you don't actually need to have any dreads in your dread Waaagh! for some reason). Put on a Deathskull with their warlord trait for character sniping and with some luck/rerolls he could be an absolute terror.


Big issue with that combo is 18" range on heavy weapon with 60" range. If opponent is the kind that comes close it could be good. If you face gunline it's exposing yourself to more risk. The cool thing about that is very good long range gun that's very hard to remove due to being character.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 07:44:03


Post by: Gitdakka


Coh Magnussen wrote:
 Dr.Duck wrote:
now that you can for sure only fight in two ranks to maximize damage output.


Has anyone done the circle-math to see if it makes sense to not pack the closest rank 100% in order to have a few "2nd rank" models that are wedged halfway in between in order to get within 1" of the target to expand the combat zone? Or perhaps to avoid base-to-base, stay ~3/4" out in order to have a larger "circle" for the 2nd rank to fill? (both 1st and 2nd rank will be able to hold more models, for that matter)

-Coh


Yes I did the math. Lets assume you have a straight combat front 100mm wide. The force concentration for 2 tight ranks 32mm bases are 6.25 minis/100mm

To fit 4 ranks you need the 2nd rank to be wedged in 1" from the front. After some trigonometry, each column of minis take 38,92mm instead of 32mm. 100mm/38,92mm*4ranks=10,27minis

So the force concentration of 32mm bases in 4 ranks are 10.27/100mm.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 10:02:43


Post by: tneva82


Building up mob of 10 nobz. 3 will have big choppa and choppa, rest double choppa.

What I'm trying to figure out goff or evil sun. Guess evil sun is the obvious one but I'm trying to find some use for goffs since I have Ghaz, mob of boyz, meganobz(5) and gorkanaut as goffs as well.

How has the goff trait been with nobz? With 9 S7 -1 D2 and 35 S5 attacks those 6's could help nicely(too bad goff trait is unmodified 6's or nob w/waagh banner would be nasty).

Without +1 to charge roll unreliable charge though :-/ BW and ramming speed would get closer and maybe tag shooty unit for a round but that leads into issue of surround+kill.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 11:41:36


Post by: Jidmah


PiñaColada wrote:
Okay - hear me out.

I know this is dumb but 1 trukk filled with 10 nobz all with kombi-skorchas and 2 ammo runts.

Please talk me out of this idea


It has the same weakness as the infamous burna wagon - it has no defense against getting locked in combat, so you get to flame once and then the whole thing is off.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 13:03:44


Post by: Grimskul


 Jidmah wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Okay - hear me out.

I know this is dumb but 1 trukk filled with 10 nobz all with kombi-skorchas and 2 ammo runts.

Please talk me out of this idea


It has the same weakness as the infamous burna wagon - it has no defense against getting locked in combat, so you get to flame once and then the whole thing is off.


You can make them blood axes to give them the ability to fall back and shoot.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 14:32:48


Post by: addnid


 Grimskul wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Okay - hear me out.

I know this is dumb but 1 trukk filled with 10 nobz all with kombi-skorchas and 2 ammo runts.

Please talk me out of this idea


It has the same weakness as the infamous burna wagon - it has no defense against getting locked in combat, so you get to flame once and then the whole thing is off.


You can make them blood axes to give them the ability to fall back and shoot.


Indeed and I wanted to try that out, until i realised the total cost: 374 points unless i'm mistaken (17+14 per flamer nob, then 64 for the trukk)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 14:38:51


Post by: PiñaColada


Look, it's a stupid idea, I know that. I'm weighing if it's fun enough to actually buy, build and paint that many skorcha nobs for a trick that you'll only ever get to use once per opponent (if even that). Also, 374 points is without the ammo runts, so add another 8 I'd say.

This would probably be a ridiculous build made to be less point efficient so I could run it against other sub-optimised/thematic lists. I guess what it comes down to is how much usage have people gotten out of skorcha nobz in general? I'm thinking if I'd try this, I'd have a lot of those to sprinkle into other units should I want to, have people run them with success?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 16:56:59


Post by: Gitdakka


PiñaColada wrote:
Look, it's a stupid idea, I know that. I'm weighing if it's fun enough to actually buy, build and paint that many skorcha nobs for a trick that you'll only ever get to use once per opponent (if even that). Also, 374 points is without the ammo runts, so add another 8 I'd say.

This would probably be a ridiculous build made to be less point efficient so I could run it against other sub-optimised/thematic lists. I guess what it comes down to is how much usage have people gotten out of skorcha nobz in general? I'm thinking if I'd try this, I'd have a lot of those to sprinkle into other units should I want to, have people run them with success?


Well at least its better than burna boyz


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 17:09:47


Post by: addnid


Kombi-corchas are, IMHO, absolutely the worst costed weapon in the entire ork codex. 17 points for such a bad weapon is incredible. It would need " if you roll under 4 on the number of shots, use "4" instead"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 17:13:17


Post by: Coh Magnussen


PiñaColada wrote:
Look, it's a stupid idea, I know that. I'm weighing if it's fun enough to actually buy, build and paint that many skorcha nobs for a trick that you'll only ever get to use once per opponent (if even that). Also, 374 points is without the ammo runts, so add another 8 I'd say.


Magnetize the skorcha arm? Or even just 'loot' a marine hand-flamer and magnetize it to a slugga... though with the new codex I'm guessing sluggas are going to be replaced in droves by an extra choppa.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 17:30:28


Post by: Trimarius


addnid wrote:
Kombi-corchas are, IMHO, absolutely the worst costed weapon in the entire ork codex. 17 points for such a bad weapon is incredible. It would need " if you roll under 4 on the number of shots, use "4" instead"

Hey, now. Let's not forget the humble bubblechukka, zzap gun, kannon, and lobba. And an honorable mention to the burna, which still has an effective cost. At least the kombi-skorcha could be funny (and is great in KT).

Although, if you want to go full on pyro, you might as well spring for a chinork to get those skorchas where they need to be at breakneck speed and with the fly keyword. It can only hold ten, but that's still more than enough for this to be awesomely stupid. Replace one of the nobs with a Big Mek dual wielding a kombi-skorcha and the relic blunderbuss and go to town.

I've always wanted to do something like this, too, but could never justify it past the initial chuckle.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 17:42:33


Post by: Nym


Sooooo... I'm about to face Harlequins friday in a test match for an upcoming tourney. He'll be playing at least 12 Skyweavers and several Starweavers with Troupes embarked (he likes to use at least 3 Fusion pistols here).

I need some ideas on how to deal with them without tailoring too much because my list must be able to deal with all kind of threats. Any ideas ?

My list so far is 2 Battalions :

SAG Mek / Weirdboy / Weirdboy / Another HQ
30 / 20 / 10 Boyz and 10 / 10 / 10 gretchins

Am I wrong to think that bringing any vehicles will basically mean auto-lose ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 18:56:14


Post by: Grimskul


I'd highly suggest bringing some mek guns, particularly traktor kannons and smasha guns. The auto hit will be a godsend versus all those negatives to hit, and if the wound gets through, with 2D6 damage choosing the highest you have a good chance to wipe one out in a single shot. Plus they blow up automatically! Similarly, the smasha gun does well since starweavers are only T5, making them very easy to wound on a 2D6.

Use grots to screen them (remember flip belts only work in the movement phase now) and other than that maybe a dakkajet or other unit that has a good amount of mid strength shots to get past their 4+ save.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 20:06:03


Post by: office_waaagh


Yeah mate, honestly if you're preparing for a tourney you should bring your tourney army. If you're bringing vehicles you need practice keeping them safe from something like this. Having said that, Bad Moon Lootas with the standard stratagems will absolutely wreck that list.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 20:12:04


Post by: Glitcha


Just an update on my nobz list ive been trying out. We have won our 2nd game. The nobz crushed some GSC in a narrative mission.

I was very happy with how the nob list has been performing. It might not be a top tier army but it defiantly packs a punch.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 20:12:46


Post by: the_scotsman


 Nym wrote:
Sooooo... I'm about to face Harlequins friday in a test match for an upcoming tourney. He'll be playing at least 12 Skyweavers and several Starweavers with Troupes embarked (he likes to use at least 3 Fusion pistols here).

I need some ideas on how to deal with them without tailoring too much because my list must be able to deal with all kind of threats. Any ideas ?

My list so far is 2 Battalions :

SAG Mek / Weirdboy / Weirdboy / Another HQ
30 / 20 / 10 Boyz and 10 / 10 / 10 gretchins

Am I wrong to think that bringing any vehicles will basically mean auto-lose ?


Rokkits with More Dakka should make pretty quick work of anything Harlequin vehicle/bike. All their stuff has wound counts in neat multiples of 3.

Just add some Trakktor kannons for good measure.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 23:02:57


Post by: Emicrania


Why you guys prefer double Choppa nobz over BC ?
My mathematics tells me that BC nobz are better vs everything.
5-6 of them in a G-NAUT are gonna have to do some hard cleaning T3, by than all the chaffs should be already gone. No?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/13 23:21:55


Post by: Grimskul


 Emicrania wrote:
Why you guys prefer double Choppa nobz over BC ?
My mathematics tells me that BC nobz are better vs everything.
5-6 of them in a G-NAUT are gonna have to do some hard cleaning T3, by than all the chaffs should be already gone. No?


I think it has to do with keeping them cheap, since 14 points for 5 attacks at S5 a Nob is pretty damn good. Normally having all Big Choppas is overkill, and Nobz don't usually want to go for the heavier hitters themselves personally anyways.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 01:00:38


Post by: Castozor


Yes I too prefer a mix of BC and double choppa nobz so far. Double choppa is just so cheap, treat them as extra wound for the BC dudes when needed and 5 S5 attacks are pretty fearsome if they do make it into combat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 01:12:34


Post by: Vineheart01


Yeah, mix them.
Ive been doing 6 BC+Chop and 4 ChopChop nobz

Unless they are completely ignored, usually only 1-2 of the chopchop nobz even reaches melee for me.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 01:46:14


Post by: Dr.Duck


5 Str5 attacks for 14 pts seems pretty good. Only issue is facilitating them into combat


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 04:28:01


Post by: office_waaagh


Nobz are a prime candidate for taking advantage of Loot it since it brings them up to a 3+ save. Combined with 2 wounds each it makes them surprisingly resilient.

The challenge with them is the same as with everything in the Ork army. Nothing we have is terribly impressive defensively so we have to rely on sheer numbers. Chances are any opponent will have a good source of high strength, high rate of fire, 2 damage weapons that will shred Nobz into wet, green confetti. So the best strategy is to either not take anything multi-wound so all their high damage shots are wasted, or else take so much of it that you overwhelm their shooting and they can't kill it all. This is the problem with Nobz. If you just take a unit of Nobz you're just feeding your opponent's autocannons their ideal targets, and they probably weren't shooting anything else if you're otherwise bringing either heavy armour or boyz.

That said, another idea I have is to try out a bikes-and-trukk-nobz list, and just go all in on 2W 4+ models that move at lightning speed. Just have to finish painting the wartrike (grumble grumble...)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 06:26:03


Post by: Rismonite


Man Stratagems would have been a great time to bring the Kan Wall back in some form. Bit of a missed oppurtunity.

While I was reading about Nob armies I was wondering if the Nob Biker star couldn't exsist some how again with the assistance of grot shields. As in, deploy behind some MSU grot squads, then on your first turn move forward, and tellyport a full 30 man grot squad into grot shield range again. You'd need a full compliment of Big Mek on Bike with KFF and Painboy on Bike to help get durability out of the 30 man grot screen for when the enemy inevitably decides to burry all their anti infantry shooting into them. But it might be a way to get a pretty scary squad of BikerNobz on the table again.

EDIT; Might be ideal to have a useful Buggy for overwatch eating, unless Loot it doesn't include bikes, it might be sweet to get that Stratagem on the NobBikers right after the escort buggy dies to something awful in overwatch on assault.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 07:17:24


Post by: tneva82


 Rismonite wrote:
While I was reading about Nob armies I was wondering if the Nob Biker star couldn't exsist some how again with the assistance of grot shields. As in, deploy behind some MSU grot squads, then on your first turn move forward, and tellyport a full 30 man grot squad into grot shield range again. You'd need a full compliment of Big Mek on Bike with KFF and Painboy on Bike to help get durability out of the 30 man grot screen for when the enemy inevitably decides to burry all their anti infantry shooting into them. But it might be a way to get a pretty scary squad of BikerNobz on the table again.


BZZZZ! That strategem works for infantry squads only. Ergo you try that and enemy will simply blow the bikers apart when the opponent points out you can't use it to your non-infantry unit.

Nice idea but alas illegal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 office_waaagh wrote:
The challenge with them is the same as with everything in the Ork army. Nothing we have is terribly impressive defensively so we have to rely on sheer numbers. Chances are any opponent will have a good source of high strength, high rate of fire, 2 damage weapons that will shred Nobz into wet, green confetti.


Too bad the cybork body is a) so limited b) ridiculously priced(I mean give me a break. 5 pts for 6+++? When marines gets 3++ for TWO POINTS?). The one thing it does help is specifically vs autocannon and the kind working effectively almost as 5++ as each wound has 30% chance of requiring another autocannon hit to finish off.

But with stormshields new price(seriously 2 pts for 3++? TWO POINTS?) there's basically no price for cybork body that makes sense. Even 1 pts is ridiculously overpriced. And 1 per 5(WHY?) just makes it worse.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 09:29:31


Post by: PiñaColada


I'd take cybork bodies for 1 point each, even if they're still 1 per 5. But that's the highest point cost I'd take them at. That was one of the upgrades I was sure it'd be changed for the better/ get cheaper in the codex since they were so obviously overpriced

Edit: It sure would be nice in MANZ could take them too, it would start to make up for the lack of an invuln. Assuming the cost of the upgrade goes way down that is.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 09:39:05


Post by: Blackie


Lack of invuln is not a main problem for meganobz, it was their main weakness in the past. Now most anti tank weapons are AP-3 so they still get a 5+ save, basically like the 5+ invuln that terminators have. Against AP-2, AP-1 or AP- they'd roll their armor save anyway. Unless we're talking about giving them 3++ or 4++.

A cybork body adds a 6+++ which is way better than a invuln since it stacks with the armor save. I haven't tried snakebites meganobz though, mostly because I dislike their lore.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 09:51:15


Post by: tneva82


PiñaColada wrote:
I'd take cybork bodies for 1 point each, even if they're still 1 per 5. But that's the highest point cost I'd take them at. That was one of the upgrades I was sure it'd be changed for the better/ get cheaper in the codex since they were so obviously overpriced

Edit: It sure would be nice in MANZ could take them too, it would start to make up for the lack of an invuln. Assuming the cost of the upgrade goes way down that is.


1 pts would still be ridiculous price compared to 3++ for just 1 pts more.

Biggest issue I have with 1 per 5 is HOW TO IDENTIFY the bloody buggers. Looking at squad I'm building. Power klaw+choppa, 3 big choppa+choppa and 6 choppa2. I would like 2 of the twin choppas to have it. How I'm supposed to identify them?

1 pts, whole squad takes them. That I could get behind eventhough it would still be overpriced but at least it would only be 1/model wasted and no worries about identifying specific models.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 09:57:15


Post by: PiñaColada


1 point per body is not as good as a 3++ for 2 points, for sure. But usually in a 2k list it all adds up to 1996 or something like that, so chucking those on for "free" is fine by me.

I identify my cyborks by having modded on some extra metal/tubes etc on either the arms or head. I haven't played them as cyborks for a while but they're easily identifiable. Or you could just pose those guys differently. Have them stand on rocks or whatever


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 10:36:17


Post by: Jidmah


 Blackie wrote:
Lack of invuln is not a main problem for meganobz, it was their main weakness in the past. Now most anti tank weapons are AP-3 so they still get a 5+ save, basically like the 5+ invuln that terminators have. Against AP-2, AP-1 or AP- they'd roll their armor save anyway. Unless we're talking about giving them 3++ or 4++.

You usually need those invulnerable saves to tank melee monsters nowadays. As long as you don't try to tank a daemon primarch or a knight, you should be fine. Most AP-4 anti-tank weapons also tend to be signle shot and d6 damage, so there is a chance of them simply failing to kill a nob due to doing one or two damage.

A cybork body adds a 6+++ which is way better than a invuln since it stacks with the armor save. I haven't tried snakebites meganobz though, mostly because I dislike their lore.


You could just have them run with a doc though. I'm still a huge fan of Mad Dok Grotznik, so if you are playing deff skullz he is a great backup for MANz or nobz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 11:45:18


Post by: Dojo


I think i wanna try my Meganobz again, so cool and now i can teleport them in and charge. What are people doing with them? small distraction squad or like an anti knight team at like 20PL


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 11:51:21


Post by: Rismonite


 Dojo wrote:
I think i wanna try my Meganobz again, so cool and now i can teleport them in and charge. What are people doing with them? small distraction squad or like an anti knight team at like 20PL


Now we are teleporting them in and charging, exactly as you said

They are typically one element of a triple battalion list IMO, and probably the first or second element of a double battalion list. If you aren't fond of the Meganobz then the Deff Dreadz are probably your other flavor of Evil Sun deep strike melee dice.

Bad Moonz Lootabomm, Evil Sunz Tellyporta Meganobz (or Dreadz)), then Deffskull X component seems like a winrar


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 13:49:41


Post by: addnid


10 meganobz evil sunz on who you cast da jump and warpath. I really don’t see any other way of playing them. They are so expensive they need turn 1 action. For turn two action nobz are much better (ie transported or tellyported) I think


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 14:20:19


Post by: Blackie


I hate deathstars and always avoid the massive investment on single units, so no 10 man meganobz for me, even if they're my favorite models and used to bring 15 in 7th edition . Lootas were an exception, but got already tired of playing the list centered around them, and I've already shelved them.

I usualy bring 5-6 stock meganobz deployed by tellyporta. Evil sunz or goffs, but I also tried them in a deathskulls brigade and the re-rolls make them powerful as the goffs ones. 6+++ and obj secured tipycally don't matter but still free bonuses that could be helpful sometimes. When goffs they usually get warpath and the banner nob aura.

I use them as a back up for my 3x vehicles with deff rollas full of boyz and joined by the biker boss. For the same amount of points invested in 6 meganobz you could field 12 nobz in a trukk with 2 ammo runts, this option competed with meganobz in many of my games but I love both solutions and I alternate them.

If you want a single unbuffed unit that does a lot of stuff on its own go for the 10 meganobz but find a way to clear screeners. Sometimes 40 shots (46-47 actually, since DDD) with the kustom shootas can be enough, most of the times they don't.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 15:52:56


Post by: tneva82


addnid wrote:
10 meganobz evil sunz on who you cast da jump and warpath. I really don’t see any other way of playing them. They are so expensive they need turn 1 action. For turn two action nobz are much better (ie transported or tellyported) I think


Problem with t1 jump is you will expose them to kill cheap chaff...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 19:45:36


Post by: Lazzamore


Hey guys, mind if I ask for some tactical guidance on my Orks? Winning games have never been priority number one for me, but I'm on this massive losing streak and I don't want to be a doormat. I run Freebooters, and the bulk of my points goes to footslogging boyz and MSU Flash gitz. I tend to take the Killchoppa (or gitstoppa shells. Not sure which is better for me since I don't tend to charge with my warboss until the boys have,) Badskull Banner and a Warphead with da jump (the other power varies). MY Warlord is a Warboss with the aforementioned Killchoppa/gitsoppa shells, and 'Follow Me, Ladz!' as his trait.

Now I usually go on the offensive with this loadout and play 1500 to 2000 point games, I charge up my mixed-weapon boyz/any Nobz i took and midway sometimes I da jump my Flash Gitz behind enemy lines and shoot the warlord/buffers to death, if applicable.

Again, I've never been worried or upset about losing, I just want to pose a challenge and be fun to play with, but I was hoping perhaps a change in my strategy could improve my odds.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 19:57:01


Post by: the_scotsman


 Lazzamore wrote:
Hey guys, mind if I ask for some tactical guidance on my Orks? Winning games have never been priority number one for me, but I'm on this massive losing streak and I don't want to be a doormat. I run Freebooters, and the bulk of my points goes to footslogging boyz and MSU Flash gitz. I tend to take the Killchoppa (or gitstoppa shells. Not sure which is better for me since I don't tend to charge with my warboss until the boys have,) Badskull Banner and a Warphead with da jump (the other power varies). MY Warlord is a Warboss with the aforementioned Killchoppa/gitsoppa shells, and 'Follow Me, Ladz!' as his trait.

Now I usually go on the offensive with this loadout and play 1500 to 2000 point games, I charge up my mixed-weapon boyz/any Nobz i took and midway sometimes I da jump my Flash Gitz behind enemy lines and shoot the warlord/buffers to death, if applicable.

Again, I've never been worried or upset about losing, I just want to pose a challenge and be fun to play with, but I was hoping perhaps a change in my strategy could improve my odds.


I definitely think it could. I wouldn't worry too much, there's plenty you can do to kick up your list from where you are without having to go purely tournament competitive or buy a bunch of new stuff.

I guess my questions to you would be:

-are you pretty much playing with your whole collection, or do you have other things in reserves you could swap in or out? Could you give me a rough idea of what you have?

-About how competitive would you say your play group is? is it mostly just a bunch of folks playing with their collections, or do a lot of players follow the current tournament type lists (lots of knights, dark eldar, lists with tons of different allies)

-how would you rank the following statements in terms of priority:

"I most want to keep my army to only the Freebootas kultur."

"I most want to keep the playstyle of my army - primarily on foot"

"I most want to keep playing with my favorite units and have them be good in the game."

Honestly, it sounds like there's plenty you can do differently either just keeping the same list, or slightly configuring it with the same models to be a bit more effective. So, just let us know what you'd want to change up! Without context of how much you want to change, most of the time you're just going to get advice like "take whatever is the current tournament list. Run that."


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 20:16:21


Post by: tneva82


Also what kind of armies you generally face and what's giving you particularly hard time?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 20:21:47


Post by: Lazzamore


the_scotsman wrote:


1-"I most want to keep playing with my favorite units and have them be good in the game."

2-"I most want to keep my army to only the Freebootas kultur."

3-"I most want to keep the playstyle of my army - primarily on foot"



I organised the statements into priorities as you asked, and thanks for offering your help!

Im using most of my army. I take pretty much as many grots/boys as I have. I have tankbustas and perhaps a few more nobz I could take, and about 20 flash gits, though I usually take between 10-15. Vehicle wise, I have 7 killa kans I rarely take (I have yet to find out how to use them effectively), 2 Deff Dreads, 2 trucks, a battlewagon and about 6 koptas and one of those new Scrapjets. lately I've been trying to field more boys so that means I've taken fewer kans/wagons. Elites/HQ wise I could take 2 Painboys, a mini-mek and up to 3 extra warbosses (I recently bought someone else's collection).

My group is fairly down to earth, not necessarily 'tournament go-ers' I would say as they don't go out of there way to field tournament lists, though they tend to defeat me regularly (thus my question), and I wouldn't want to be too much of an 'easy win'.

EDIT (ninja'd):
tneva82 wrote:
Also what kind of armies you generally face and what's giving you particularly hard time?

Right now I'm in a narrative campaign and my toughest neighbors are Nurgle daemons, Guard and Space marines (the player likes to use different chapter tactics)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 20:37:54


Post by: tneva82


Well those killa kans you can pretty much forget. There's pretty much no way to field them efficiently so if you are losing a lot there's no point whatsoever giving handicap to begin with. Now if you were dominating your group those would be fun handicap but as it is...

I presume guard is typical gunline? Do they have much in form of serious counter charge unit that you would hate have charging into your units like big ogryn units? If not try to find ways to tripoint units. That is charge unit A but if there's unit nearby that's not tri-point immunized DON'T charge that unit(ie don't declare charge) but move 3 models close to one model that you can surround from 3 points. Then on pile in tag in. They will be able to attack you but that's all right, they are guards, and then you have 3 models in triangle formation over that model and he can't fall back and thus you will be 100% immune to shooting.

Same trick can work against gunline marines though they are more likely to have credible counter charge unit.

Nurgle daemons. Do they have several characters close to HUGE unit of plaguebearers? That makes that unit nearly invulnerable(I have had 60 boyz, 6 bikes and wartrike charge and while I killed 20+ one of the characters gave 2d6 pick lowest and if he rolls 1 rather than lose daemons to morale gets more...) so don't just rush in and charge that. You will likely not kill that unit and he counter charges at will. Hopefully he's not fielding blood letters as well for that purpose(that's nasty combo).

Against nurgle daemons they have very little shooting so as crazy as it might sound try initially stay back and soften the support units away before tackling the plaguebearer wall of invulnerable daemons(seriously that wall can be insanely tough. 60 boyz, 6 bikes and trike and I couldn't kill it in one round...)

Orks are pretty much dependant on strategems. How many CP's you generally field? I find anything less than 14 to be waaaay too little seeing how much orks eat them. Even basic boyz need those seeing they went worse from index without strategems.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 20:41:25


Post by: PiñaColada


Could you quickly write down what your last (or one your usual) list was?

Where do you normally have an issue? Is it the speed of the army itself? Anti-tank capabilities?

In regards to the other units you have, the battlewagon is quite good (especially as a bonebreka), the megatrakk is one of the good buggies and just a solid all rounder so both of those can be slotted into a force quite well..

A bonebreaka plus 10 nobz (and 2 runts) is a nifty little beatstick that isn't crazy expensive, and nobz are a very good target for the "Loot it" stratagem.

If it's anti-tank you lack then tankbustas are always solid but might be a big (well, big-ish) points sink if you want them in a trukk and then you can't use strats on them, they're real fragile otherwise though and might require some nifty maneuvering to keep alive. If you're looking for cheaper anti-tank (in points, not money I'm afraid) then the mek gunz are great. The traktor kannon and smasha gun are both really, really killy for their points but the KMK is still a beast IMO.

Edit: In regards to nurgle daemons. I find them to be the worst (as in most tedious army) I've ever played. That stupid un-killable tree makes them really fast and they're tough to kill. The unit stays at -1 for the phase even if they drop below 20. They're just a chore to play against. Lots of boyz should be able to chop 'em up in CC though..

Also, if you do get some mek gunz, remember that they work really well with the freeboota trait since <Gretchin> can't benefit from the trait but the can activate it for everyone else. So you'd just shoot those guns first and make the rest of the force stronger


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 20:48:33


Post by: tneva82


In terms of mek guns good way to get them cheaper(in money) is use trukk kit in conjugation. With mek gun kit, trukk kit and some spare bits you can easily build one of each mek gun(albeit bubblechukka is of limited value). Makes it bit more easy to wallet if you aren't opposed to fielding 2-3 different types.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/14 22:51:57


Post by: PiñaColada


Have you guys seen the Looted wagon rules?

BoLS has an article up about it.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-breaking-ork-looted-wagon-rules-arrive.html

Shame something like the battle fortress didn't make it into the 'dex I feel..


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 02:07:11


Post by: the_scotsman


 Lazzamore wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


1-"I most want to keep playing with my favorite units and have them be good in the game."

2-"I most want to keep my army to only the Freebootas kultur."

3-"I most want to keep the playstyle of my army - primarily on foot"



I organised the statements into priorities as you asked, and thanks for offering your help!

Im using most of my army. I take pretty much as many grots/boys as I have. I have tankbustas and perhaps a few more nobz I could take, and about 20 flash gits, though I usually take between 10-15. Vehicle wise, I have 7 killa kans I rarely take (I have yet to find out how to use them effectively), 2 Deff Dreads, 2 trucks, a battlewagon and about 6 koptas and one of those new Scrapjets. lately I've been trying to field more boys so that means I've taken fewer kans/wagons. Elites/HQ wise I could take 2 Painboys, a mini-mek and up to 3 extra warbosses (I recently bought someone else's collection).

My group is fairly down to earth, not necessarily 'tournament go-ers' I would say as they don't go out of there way to field tournament lists, though they tend to defeat me regularly (thus my question), and I wouldn't want to be too much of an 'easy win'.

EDIT (ninja'd):
tneva82 wrote:
Also what kind of armies you generally face and what's giving you particularly hard time?

Right now I'm in a narrative campaign and my toughest neighbors are Nurgle daemons, Guard and Space marines (the player likes to use different chapter tactics)


Well, the way I would set it up would be this:

Freeborn battalion. Add a 1cp detachment if you need more heavy slots. Freebootas are pretty not CP thirsty.

I'd go with Something like the following:


Battalion, brigade. Both Freebootas.

Warboss with Da Killa Klaw and Brutal But Kunnin Trait
Weird boy with Da Jump

30x shoot boyz, klaw nob
10x gretchin
10x gretchin

Scrapjet
2 individual koptas with rokkit

5x nobs
5x tankbustas 2 squig

2 trukk

1 battlewagon with Deff Rolla
5x Flash Gits

Spearhead

Warboss with headwhoppas kill choppy

5x flash gits
5x flash gits
5x flash gits

2x Deff copt
2x ddeffcopta

Gretchin start in front with the boyz to got shield if you lose turn 1. 2 git squads per truck. Nobz busts bosses and weird boy in the wagon helps you minimize drops. Your goal is to jump the boys into the enemy turn 1 if you need to, if the enemy comes to you, jump a unit of gits or nobz.

Your goal each round is to pop the smallest/most wounded vehicle in the smallest number of rokkit possible, then lay in with the gits/shootas as soon as you can. The boyz are primarily there as a turn 1 distraction, jump them in and charge if possible. The real melee threat is the nobs, bosses and Deff Rolla.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 02:09:28


Post by: Dr.Duck


PiñaColada wrote:
Have you guys seen the Looted wagon rules?

BoLS has an article up about it.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-breaking-ork-looted-wagon-rules-arrive.html

Shame something like the battle fortress didn't make it into the 'dex I feel..


Depends on pricing but I assume that they will be priced similar to the imperium versions which makes them pretty bad. Wagons with tons of add guns seems cool but the cost of our weapons ultimately makes everything too expensive, unless the chasis is dirt cheap which I doubt.

BS 5+ kinda hurts but if you put enough guns on a fortress and drop shoot twice and dakka on it you might get some value out of it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 02:24:32


Post by: the_scotsman


 Dr.Duck wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Have you guys seen the Looted wagon rules?

BoLS has an article up about it.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-breaking-ork-looted-wagon-rules-arrive.html

Shame something like the battle fortress didn't make it into the 'dex I feel..


Depends on pricing but I assume that they will be priced similar to the imperium versions which makes them pretty bad. Wagons with tons of add guns seems cool but the cost of our weapons ultimately makes everything too expensive, unless the chasis is dirt cheap which I doubt.

BS 5+ kinda hurts but if you put enough guns on a fortress and drop shoot twice and dakka on it you might get some value out of it.


They are only power level.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 02:29:48


Post by: gungo


Isn’t Looted wagons power level only? There is no price it’s a narrative/open play game thing. You can put a hundred guns on it with power level and it doesn’t matter.

As such though looted wagons are useless to most players.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 07:46:17


Post by: Dr.Duck


Oh then its extra garbage


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 10:07:20


Post by: Gitdakka


The looted vehicles seems really fun. Shame gw could not be bothered to give them points values. Still this is just more incentive to go narrative instead of match play


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 10:24:19


Post by: addnid


tneva82 wrote:
addnid wrote:
10 meganobz evil sunz on who you cast da jump and warpath. I really don’t see any other way of playing them. They are so expensive they need turn 1 action. For turn two action nobz are much better (ie transported or tellyported) I think


Problem with t1 jump is you will expose them to kill cheap chaff...


Oh yes they won’t do much more than clear screens turn 1. But they will be there right up your opponents face, and so will be your deffkilla wartrike, your bonebreakas, etc. It’s a threat overload thing IMHO.
If your list is not a « rush » list then no,that 10 meganobz unit is not worth it. Perhaps they can work as it was said by 5-6 and you can use them as goal keepers with a banner nearby (Goff meganobz with a banner must really wreck faces !) or tellyport them if you're up against a gunline, but I am slightly doubtful of the investment


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 14:12:41


Post by: PiñaColada


Looking through the new CA I saw that the Supa-kannon in the FW section is now 30 points and I got all excited before I realised it was 30 points in the Index Xenos anyways so I'm not sure what happened there. Then I got all sad because I really want that supa-kannon on a gunwagon. I'd pay real points for that damnit!

In regards to MANZ, I tried putting 5 with saws in a bonebreaka with a mini-mek, a grot oiler and rezmekkas redder armour. It worked really well but I've only tried it the one game


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 14:30:51


Post by: Kebabcito


tneva82 wrote:
Also what kind of armies you generally face and what's giving you particularly hard time?

I usually play against Death Guard, Space Marines... They have not enough dakka to stop my army and I usually win turn 3 (when I charge with everything).

I've had a hard time against Imperial Guard.

When the time to charge comes, I already lost a lot of army, if he distributes well his tanks arround the table, my tankbustas cannot reach everyone of them, so he has free shoots. My boyz/nobz can kill an entire unit with a swing, but he has tons of units so I end losing more miniatures than them. I think the only way to play against imperial guard is to DaJump and charge like crazy from all angles, staying as much as posible in close combat


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 16:51:30


Post by: the_scotsman


Well, with the weapon lists it shouldn't be too hard to derive point costs if your group is ok with allowing it.

We know pl is median cost of unit (average of least expensive and most expensive wargear configuratoon) *20.

Kart: 100pts median.

Base weapon 5pts
Most expensive 44pts
24pts median, so the base cost is 76.

Wagon: 220pt median

Base 5
Most expensive 74

39 median, 171 base cost.

The battle fortress is harder because we don't know the cost of the deffcannon and Supa gatler unless those are existing forge world weapons? Average seems to be 580, about in line with a bane blade.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 17:46:44


Post by: PiñaColada


The deffkannon (the stock option on a kustom stompa) is 0 points in FW Index Xenos and the mega-gatler is a new 'un as far as I know.

I'm just sad that Orks don't have a baneblade type chassis in the codex, the Kill Tank from FW sort of fits the bill but it needs an updated points cost IMO