Is this even possible to achieve with only a measly £100 ?

We all know GW stuff is far more expensive than any other similar game but can we pull off a descent list with this money.......

My opinion as a non pro gamer and just collector I would go with this combo

Space marine strike force or adeptus Astartes strike force rrp £140 each but only £105 from dark sphere

But that's cheating so here's another list

Tactical squad £25
Assault squad £20.50
Dreadnought £28
Razorback £25
Space marines x3 pack £6

Total = £104.50

Let's hear your lists doesn't gave to be space marines

I presume the rulebook and codex are already owned? As that is generally a good place to begin...

Not seeing any rules or codex in that list, or are we making the assumption that it is already purchased?

I would advise them not to. If they had thier heart set on it, I would advise them to forgo "new" and comb the second hand sellers.

Then I would suggest a force with a codex that is no more than 1 to 1.5 yrs old.

I just don't think you can enjoy the game with that kind of initial outlay.

Let's say codex and rules can be borrowed for the time being and it's just cost on minis


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I agree to hit the used stuff on eBay etc or discount job this is just for official reference going down your local GW and paying mug money

Go for a more affordable game?

 MWHistorian wrote:
Go for a more affordable game?

Good response but we gotta stick to wh40k

 kerikhaos wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Go for a more affordable game?

Good response but we gotta stick to wh40k

How so? In all honesty I would never advise anyone to get into 40k at this stage. To say nothing of the rules and how utterly dire I think they are, but have you even explained to them the financial ramifications of what they're about to get into? If this guy thinks £100 is enough to get anything significant he's in for a rude awakening.

Dark Vengeance £65
Razorback £25
Space marines x3 pack £6


Dark Angels <-- Could also use as vanilla marines or convert to chaos
Captain
Librarian
13 Tactical Marines
3 Bikes
5 Termies
Razorback
+
Chaos
Hell Brute
Aspiring Champion
Chaos HQ guy
20 cultitists
6 chosen
+ Rulesbook
+ dice
+ templates

 Grimtuff wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Go for a more affordable game?

Good response but we gotta stick to wh40k

How so?

Because it's his thread and he's interested in a 40K solution, not a sales pitch for other games

Do we have to stick with GW miniatures?

Cause, you know, 80 plastic Warzone infantry for 30 Euros

http://shop.princeaugust.ie/warzone-mutant-chronicles-wargame/warzone-games-expansion-sets/tg2420-1-warzone-mutant-chronicles-bag-of-80-plastic-soldiers/

Is there a list that's viable for carapace armed guardsmen? They are also easy to convert with parts either from 3rd party resin providers like Anvil or Zinge or whatever or GW plastic guns from eBay bitz sellers.

if you need vehicles, Ramshackle Games would look great next to the warzone plastics:

http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6&sort=20a&page=2

Though for my 28mm sci-fi vehicles, I use 1/48 scale Merkava tanks by Academy. They're like $20 after shipping from Korea on eBay.

£100 you say.....right, well.....

Buy Dark Vengeance from a GW store and swap out the Chaos for the Dark Angels.

For £65 you have 2x Libbys, 2x Company Masters, 20 Tactical Marines, 10 Terminators and 6 bikes. Buy a chapter upgrade frame for £12 which will give you a nice way to get 5 Company Veterans as well as the opportunity to kitbash some of the minis from Dark Vengeance making the two squads more unique. If my maths is right, there is £23. £16.50 on an attack bikt and then you have a whopping £6.50 left.

I'd be tempted to go £12 over budget and buy a Landspeeder. That would give you a list like:
Company Master
2x Librarian
2x 10 man tactical squad
2x 5 man terminator squads
1x RAS with attack bike and land speeder

That's gotta be close to a 1500 point army if it's tooled up, right?

EDIT

Oh yeah, and you get a copy of the rules

If it was in the states where i was from id probably say hit up a casino, win big so you could actually start an army

 adamsouza wrote:
Dark Vengeance £65
Razorback £25

Why not just paint up the DA as Renegades and make an all Chaos force? You can use all the DV models in one army then. Or go unbound and accept that the DA and Chaos are working together because reasons.

I would recommend buying the Dark Vengeance starter set and trading/selling away the faction you don't want. Also buy the Citadel base paint set. That's $155 which I think is close to 100 pounds. (silly British money).

(and stay away from the ridiculously priced GW primer, go to Home Depot and buy some for <$5.

I also think GW needs to develop a starter set for each faction that sells for $50. It should include 2 troop choices and an HQ, a mini rulebook and the army rules for those units.

Now if they have a bit more money to spend then there are a couple of box sets for various factions that give a small discount. usually these are around $200 which is a bit much to fork over at one time, but then again the number of people (especially kids parents!)who fork over $500 for a video game console I assume there are plenty of people who can afford this.

 frozenwastes wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Dark Vengeance £65
Razorback £25

Why not just paint up the DA as Renegades and make an all Chaos force? You can use all the DV models in one army then. Or go unbound and accept that the DA and Chaos are working together because reasons.

Why unbound they could just run as CtA

But yeah DV is actually easily the easiest way to start. if you are into chaos. go the fallen and iv seen some neet conversions into word bearers for the terminators. as well the bikes make excellent emps children.

Old style Dark Eldar from ebay, cheap as chips. Ask your friends if you can play the 5th edition codex and 6th edition rules and pick them up from Ebay too. Should be able to get this lot for under £100.

I'd suggest 6th ed mini rulebook from ebay, and £95 worth of ebay minis from someone like Mantic.

You're going to be making major compromises at that level.

Dark Vengeance Box. If your friend likes the game he can save up and spend from there.

Is it too late to jump on the 'I wouldn't' bandwagon?

Seriously though on the UK store does £100 even buy you a rulebook and codex?

If he does like the game his next buy could be one of the battleforce boxes. I think they make one for everything. Most are great deals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Is it too late to jump on the 'I wouldn't' bandwagon?

Seriously though on the UK store does £100 even buy you a rulebook and codex?

Honestly the OP asked the question and we should stay on topic and not hijack the thread. We've already got five current "GW sucks" threads alive and well, no need to add more. Just answer the OP's question if you can.

I'd suggest 6th ed mini rulebook from ebay, and £95 worth of ebay minis from someone like Mantic.

You're going to be making major compromises at that level.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MightyGodzilla wrote:
If he does like the game his next buy could be one of the battleforce boxes. I think they make one for everything. Most are great deals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Is it too late to jump on the 'I wouldn't' bandwagon?

Seriously though on the UK store does £100 even buy you a rulebook and codex?

Honestly the OP asked the question and we should stay on topic and not hijack the thread. We've already got five current "GW sucks" threads alive and well, no need to add more. Just answer the OP's question if you can.

Yes, £65 will get you the mini rule book and 1 codex.

I'm looking at the stuff I've been buying recently. It' demonstrates how little mileage you get out of GW product.

I'd tell them to buy Warzone. You can download the rules for free and a starter box for an army plus a pile of related boosters will come in at less than £100 and have all the rules for them.

Or maybe Flames of War, Dark Sphere does the 3rd edition Open Fire for £32 and you can get a heap of blisters or boxes to make up the £100.

Or Batman Miniatures Game, if they like Batman. Download the rules again, buy a heap of packs for the charactes you like. You're ready to go.

I'd side with the Dark Vengeance bunch, or if the new nids vs BA box comes to fruition that instead, trading away whichever army wasnt wanted for the same part of the army that was wanted. Either way you end up with a small but playable force and a decent starting point into the game, aswell as a mini rulebook, templates etc.

Ok wow so you have £35 to spend after rules...

Mantic orks are pretty good, as are there enforcers. Wargames factory IG are pretty cool too.

I don't know UK prices but I doubt its enough to get you anything more than a kill team so I'd only recommend alternative models if alternative games are off the table.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Mantic orks are pretty good, as are there enforcers. Wargames factory IG are pretty cool too.

Mantic Orks are scaled closer to Gorkamorka boyz, have limited sculpts, and weapon selection.
Mantic Enforcers, still currently in Restic, are a PITA to assemble, have limited sculpts, and weapon selection that doesn't match up well with 40K.
Wargames Factory IG are not that bad, but they comprise entirely of footsloggers, which would be a prettty lame starting 40K IG force, and very low points.

Dark Vengeance beats out an equivalent money's worth of Mantic or Wargames Factory for 40K use.

Dark Vengeance also includes a rulebook and templates a new player is going to need.

If you add historical kits to wargames factory you can get past the footslogging issue.

It might take a bit of looking to get the scale right but they shouldn't be hard to find in a local toy store, they are very cheap for what you get since no one can claim a historical unit as their copyright, and even the cheaper stuff actually has a lot more detail than most gaming vehicles I've see. There are also a few that fit the IG aesthetics perfectly as that's where GW took a lot of their inspiration from.

I'm not sure DV beats out the WGF troopers as you'd just end up so many of them for the same money. I don't think the Mantic Marauders should be brushed off either. So what if they're smaller and closer to Gorka Morka orks? That's a good thing considering the current stats for Ork Boyz in 40k.

I agree overall that DV is better if someone is a "beginner". The only issue they'll have is that the chaos marines which are just loaded with an overwhelming amount of detail inappropriate for a beginner. They're very busy models.

Hopefully anyone who gets DV will save them for last in their painting que. By the time you work through the cultists and marines, a painter should be up to speed for the chaos guys, but I've seen a lot of beginners really struggle with them.

They're a great thing to include in DV to get existing customers to lose their **** over detail, but they're not beginner friendly at all. The WGF troopers, on the other hand (and to a smaller degree the Mantic Marauders) are relatively plain with deep detail that paints up super easily even by first time painters. As do the Warzone plastics and cheaper snap together type historical kits like Academy's super cheap ones.

I'd side with the Dark Vengeance box, or the new rumored Tyranids versus Blood Angels, and just trading/converting whatever you don't want. You might even can find a Stormclaw box somewhere for retail, but I don't know. I've found eBay is sometimes a good source for models, but it can take awhile to wait for a deal to come up. I usually just trawl for the "Make an Offer" listings and start haggling.

Oh, and a couple of sheets of plasticard and a box of Ork boys will turn any of those historical kits into a great Ork vehicle.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Oh, and a couple of sheets of plasticard and a box of Ork boys will turn any of those historical kits into a great Ork vehicle.

Scratch building orks is probably the most economical means to produce a 40K army, for an experienced modeller, with a lot of time on their hands.

It's not something that is newbie friendly, and again out of the parameters of what the OP asked for.

--

As for the Manitc Orks being Gorkamorka scale, I'm going to guess your not an actual ork player if you think they're Ork enough to field.
No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

 adamsouza wrote:
As for the Manitc Orks being Gorkamorka scale, I'm going to guess your not an actual ork player if you think they're Ork enough to field.
No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

Sorry, I'm an ork player back to late RT days. Real orks look like this:


Painted by spevna of the lead adventure forums.

The post-Gorkamorka orks are ogres squished onto 25mm bases.

 frozenwastes wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
As for the Manitc Orks being Gorkamorka scale, I'm going to guess your not an actual ork player if you think they're Ork enough to field.
No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

Sorry, I'm an ork player back to late RT days. Real orks look like this:


Painted by spevna of the lead adventure forums.

The post-Gorkamorka orks are ogres squished onto 25mm bases.

LOL! I had 2 out of 4. Not bad.
A hundred Euro doesn't really get you much 40k, nothing much more than kill team anyways and at that you might as well just play a dedicated skirmish game with more in-depth rules.
(Still assuming we have the rules.)

 MWHistorian wrote:
A hundred Euro doesn't really get you much 40k, nothing much more than kill team ...

Your remark is either hyperbole, or you play with really big kill teams

 adamsouza wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
A hundred Euro doesn't really get you much 40k, nothing much more than kill team ...

Your remark is either hyperbole, or you play with really big kill teams

Spoiler:

DV + Razorback = less than 100 Euro
Captain
Librarian
10 Tactical Marines
3 Bikes
5 Termies
Razorback
Hell Brute
Aspiring Champion
Chaos HQ guy
20 cultitists
6 chosen
+ Rulebook
+ dice
+ templates

You're short 2 codecies if nothing else.

A codex and a rulebook. Oh wait, that already puts you at the limit... Now you just need £400 for models and paint and you'll have an army playable for average size games.

If the only options for 100 pounds are found in DV, then 40k isn't really accessible at that price at all. The money will only get you anything of note if you redefine 40k to be a two army game with Chaos and Dark Angels.

DV is a great value for the models it contains. It has many strengths. But the fact that you have to keep pointing back to it shows that it stands alone among all the options GW provides for getting an army at a good value. The very act of continually pointing to its value shows what's wrong with the rest of the 40k line.

"How would you advise a beginner to spend their £100 to get started in WH40k??"

1) Be sure that WH40k is what you really want. And that you're willing to spend much more than that in the future. And possibly repurchasing rules and codexes when they get updated. Bear in mind that the last update to 40k came out only 23 months later. That was 5 months ago, so you should probably prepare to buy a new rulebook within a year and a half, just in case.

2) The £100 isn't going to get you £100 worth of models as you'll need rules as well. And if you've decided that you want to play the current edition of 40k, you're going to spend a sizable percentage of that on a codex for your army.

3) Check to see if either of the armies in Dark Vengeance appeal to you. That box set is pretty much your only option in terms of getting anything like a reasonable sized collection for your money. You'll still face the prospect of increased costs in the future though, as you expand your army outside of the models contained in that starter.

4) You'll also need paints. While GW sells paints you'll get twice as much volume of paint if you go for another manufacturer. Like Vallejo, Coat d'Arms, P3, Armypainter, and others.

5) Take the time to look at other miniatures to see if you either a) find a different game that might appeal more or b) be usable as substitutes for 40k models at a lower price so your £100 can go further.

 adamsouza wrote:

As for the Manitc Orks being Gorkamorka scale, I'm going to guess your not an actual ork player if you think they're Ork enough to field.
No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

The Deadzone ones have dog faces. Utter rubbish.

Trukk Boyz - £26.25 (from Dark Sphere)
Flying Lead rules - £5
Infinity rules - £0
Chain Reaction rules - £0
F.A.D. rules - £0
Warpath rules, and the 40K fan-lists (if he/she would like to expand in the future) - £0
Total - £31.25.

That gives the person a fully playable force for several systems, a transport/terrain piece and almost 70 quid to spend on liquor and contraceptives

Very resourceful responses everyone. It's quite a complex question with not many options at 100 quid. But officially buying and not using discount retailers nor eBay goods this question means to challenge the mere idea of " can I join the game with just a 100 quid - and what would it get me?"

Some good combo lists by some of you and many of you have selected the dark vengeance route as it comes with rule book etc and it does seem the most sensible. but as I stated above I would give leeway to the codex and rules because I would expect a friend to lend a hand since it was them who introduced them to wh40k

I'm going to still try play with some items for alternative lists but more opinions are welcome

I'm in the US, so I'm saying that 100 GBP is equal to roughly 160 USD.

If you have a friend who is looking to get into the hobby, you really need to find out what they're most interested in. GW has classically defined "The Hobby" to have four pillars. Not everyone likes all four. The four, incidentally, are collecting, assembling, painting and playing. Enjoyment of fluff generally falls into collecting.

I have friends who play who aren't even remotely interested in painting or the background. They just need models and core rules. I have other friends who don't play much, but love painting. They just need models and paints.

Presumably, you're willing to let your buddy borrow the core rules while he is learning and playing with you. Assuming he picks an army you're not playing, he'll need a codex. The cheapest way to get this is as an eBook version from Black Library at roughly 35 USD. He can pick up a tape measure and a small pack of dice at the local dollar store for about 2 USD. Rules and hobby items are covered.

Now we need models. You're going to help your buddy with assembly, so he's not going to invest in clippers and glue quite yet. Gotta get him hooked first. While Dark Vengeance is the go to for cheap models, not everyone wants power armour. Battleforces average about 110 USD, but can go up or down depending on army. Also, some Battleforces have models that can be used as HQs while others don't. The Tau Battleforce is a perfect example of a good starting point...

Codex: Tau Empire (Black Library eBook, which you can print using any computer with a printer)
(HQ) Crisis Commander w/2 Gun Drones
(Troops) 6x Fire Warriors
(Troops) 6x Fire Warriors
(Elites) 2x Crisis Suits
(Fast Attack) Gun Drone Squadron (6 Drones)
(Fast Attack) Piranha w/2 Gun Drones
Dice
Tape Measure

Total Cost is 157 USD, or 98 GBP. Local pricing might shift this a little, but it's perfectly possible to get a functioning starter army for most factions.

To the people who say, "Yeah, but it costs more to get a 1500 point army!", I would ask this... When you started, was the first game you played at 1500? I can field thousands of points now, but my first game was played out of the 2nd edition equivalent to Dark Vengeance.

100 GBP/160 USD won't get you everything you need, but it can easily get you started.

In the age of Tablets and internet internet piracy, I raise you that ALL of the 40K rulebooks and Codexes are free to anyone with a moral gray area.

If you are willing to play Marines or Chaos Marines DV is they way to go.

If your willing to shop Ebay around, then any army can be had if you are patient enough.

In the last few months I was able to pick up 3 seperate armies( Tau, Necrons, Eldar), codexes included, for less than $150US each.

 Kriswall wrote:
I'm in the US, so I'm saying that 100 GBP is equal to roughly 160 USD.

If you have a friend who is looking to get into the hobby, you really need to find out what they're most interested in. GW has classically defined "The Hobby" to have four pillars. Not everyone likes all four. The four, incidentally, are collecting, assembling, painting and playing. Enjoyment of fluff generally falls into collecting.

I have friends who play who aren't even remotely interested in painting or the background. They just need models and core rules. I have other friends who don't play much, but love painting. They just need models and paints.

Presumably, you're willing to let your buddy borrow the core rules while he is learning and playing with you. Assuming he picks an army you're not playing, he'll need a codex. The cheapest way to get this is as an eBook version from Black Library at roughly 35 USD. He can pick up a tape measure and a small pack of dice at the local dollar store for about 2 USD. Rules and hobby items are covered.

Now we need models. You're going to help your buddy with assembly, so he's not going to invest in clippers and glue quite yet. Gotta get him hooked first. While Dark Vengeance is the go to for cheap models, not everyone wants power armour. Battleforces average about 110 USD, but can go up or down depending on army. Also, some Battleforces have models that can be used as HQs while others don't. The Tau Battleforce is a perfect example of a good starting point...

Codex: Tau Empire (Black Library eBook, which you can print using any computer with a printer)
(HQ) Crisis Commander w/2 Gun Drones
(Troops) 6x Fire Warriors
(Troops) 6x Fire Warriors
(Elites) 2x Crisis Suits
(Fast Attack) Gun Drone Squadron (6 Drones)
(Fast Attack) Piranha w/2 Gun Drones
Dice
Tape Measure

Total Cost is 157 USD, or 98 GBP. Local pricing might shift this a little, but it's perfectly possible to get a functioning starter army for most factions.

To the people who say, "Yeah, but it costs more to get a 1500 point army!", I would ask this... When you started, was the first game you played at 1500? I can field thousands of points now, but my first game was played out of the 2nd edition equivalent to Dark Vengeance.

100 GBP/160 USD won't get you everything you need, but it can easily get you started.

I just wrote down a quick army list that isn't tournament competitive, but would be fun to play in a casual environment using only the models in the Tau Battleforce and came to just over 700 points using a standard CAD. Just pointing out it's perfectly viable to pay full retail and get a starter army.

If you shop eBay or discout stores, you could get the same as above PLUS some extra units. Just depends on what you'd want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:
In the age of Tablets and internet internet piracy, I raise you that ALL of the 40K rulebooks and Codexes are free to anyone with a moral gray area.

If you are willing to play Marines or Chaos Marines DV is they way to go.

If your willing to shop Ebay around, then any army can be had if you are patient enough.

In the last few months I was able to pick up 3 seperate armies( Tau, Necrons, Eldar), codexes included, for less than $150US each.

While I certainly wouldn't recommend piracy, you can definitely pick up a used codex on eBay or maybe a player switching armies for cheaper than retail. I've seen hardback codexes go for 75% off or more if you pay attention and avoid flavor of the month armies.

 adamsouza wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Oh, and a couple of sheets of plasticard and a box of Ork boys will turn any of those historical kits into a great Ork vehicle.

Scratch building orks is probably the most economical means to produce a 40K army, for an experienced modeller, with a lot of time on their hands.

It's not something that is newbie friendly, and again out of the parameters of what the OP asked for.

--

As for the Manitc Orks being Gorkamorka scale, I'm going to guess your not an actual ork player if you think they're Ork enough to field.
No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

Oh?


Sorry they're not all painted - that was to hand at the side of my PC

Anyway. I've played GW games since 1984. Even I'd now spend the money elsewhere.
For £100 and you want to play?
Rulebook: £50
Codex: £30
And maybe you could buy a single HQ choice model for your "new army" for £15

The alternative would be to use Chaos or Dark Angels and get the DV box set. At least you get a rulebook.
£65 for DV, but you'd still need to fork out £30 for the Codex for your army.
Maybe a 1/3rd of a full DA army in points and about 1/5th of one for Chaos.

If you've only got £100 for an army... find a different company to GW. You could probably get a full box set with rules, 2 factions, a load of scenery, dice and still have £50 left over to spend on more models.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, I just see GW is releasing the rules for £35.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000-The-Rules

Mind you, it has a skull on the cover.

/sigh

So you say this person is going to lent the rules and codex? Ok so are they going to be lent clippers, knife, glue, primer, paint brushes, paint etc? If not they are going to be left with a few boxes of plastic stuck on the sprus.

The original header without reading the actual question I would say if GW only a hobby tool set, some glue a few paints and one box of Necron warriors as they are easy to paint and need the least colours and will not put the newbie off in the first place. The detail on Dark Vengeance stuff is insane for a newbie to get their head around.

Overlord in Catacomb Command Barge 22.50
Necron Batlteforce 70.00




Necorn Battledorce + CCB (835pts)

HQ (300pts)

Necron Overlord (300pts)
Mindshackle Scarabs (15pts), Phase Shifter (45pts), Phylactery (15pts), Resurrection Orb (30pts), Sempiternal Weave (15pts), Warscythe (10pts)
Catacomb Command Barge (80pts)

Troops (460pts)

Necron Immortals (85pts)
5x Necron Immortal (85pts)

Necron Warriors (245pts)
Ghost Ark (115pts)
10x Necron Warrior (130pts)

Necron Warriors (130pts)
10x Necron Warrior (130pts)

Fast Attack (75pts)
Canoptek Scarabs (75pts)
5x Canoptek Scarab Base (75pts)

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

Oh?

Those are the more expensive DEADZONE restic orks and not the cheap multipart Plastic Warpath Orks



I don't have a size comparison picture because they are all still on the sprue, in the box they came in, because they look like yoofs next to a standar boy.

wait, google...


Mantic scifi and fantasy orks are the same size

Ok how about this for a space marine entry outside the need for codex rule book and a dark vengeance kit.....the nail has been struck where today any literate computer user can can all the rules and codex through pirate portals but dropping this and moving on to hard ware and not worrying about book ware....

Space marine list 2

Tactical squad .....25
Assault marines...20
Assault marines...20
Devastator squad.20.50
Drop pod....22.50

108 quid just slightly over budget but I think it's a possible bring to the table and have a chance list....I'm still thinking for more combos worth the money

If you're happily pirating the rules, why not just steal the stuff from a GW store?

 Riquende wrote:
If you're happily pirating the rules, why not just steal the stuff from a GW store?

There is a qualitiative difference. Models are corporeal things. Books are incoporeal. Pirating a book sold at MAXIMUM GOUGING prices is what GW deserves.

Let's veer away from the pirating thing- OP said he can borrow the rules from him so let's assume he has all the rules that would be required to play.

Buying an "army size" lot on eBay or in the barter section , or buying a starter kit and selling the second half or buy two starter kits with some one else and trade the armies, then you'll both have a rule book, dice, templates and a decent sized army and some one to build and play against, you'll also have an easier time building models, now if you want to know what kind of units to get it really depends on the army .
Tony Aguilera

Well, if we're allowing piracy, then why not allow "importing" models from "alternative" manufacturers in Asia?

1500 points of FW models for £92.46?



It's important we have a set of parameters to operate in, as there are plenty of ideas here which are sticking to the letter of the OP, but are maybe violating the spirit a little?

Try buying leftover Assault on Black Reach boxes?

Buying an "army size" lot on eBay or in the barter section , or buying a starter kit and selling the second half or buy two starter kits with some one else and trade the armies, then you'll both have a rule book, dice, templates and a decent sized army and some one to build and play against, you'll also have an easier time building models, now if you want to know what kind of units to get it really depends on the army .
Tony Aguilera

 Riquende wrote:
If you're happily pirating the rules, why not just steal the stuff from a GW store?

Get off your high horse, the OP has stated numerous times that they can borrow the needed rule books and that this is an exercise at what they can legitmately buy for 100 EU.

People who are disenchanted with GW brought up the cost of the rule bools and pointed out free online alternatives. I mentioned that if your going to get rules online for free that the GW rules are online for free as well.

Let's not derail this thread by kicking the dead horse of piracy discussion

Dark vengeance really sounds like your best bet, or wait for the BA/Nid box rumored to be a few weeks away. DV will give you more options, as you can play a Fallen list (while using DA rules, Chaos rules, OR unbound/CtA). That gives you a lotta bang for your buck. Otherwise, if you aren't playing a GW exclusive only area, pick up models from Warzone, Mantic, or any other less expensive Sci Fi company and borrow those rules you mentioned. Mantic just started posting pictures of on-sprue enforcers, so no more of the restic everyone hates. You can make a decent sized SM army out of those with relative ease. And once the Dreadball Extreme Plague multipart models come out, Chaos would be simple with those models too. And lots of plasticard for vehicles. But there are definitely options. eBay or DV are really your only choices with staying completely true to GW though and getting a decent value.

Tau:
2 boxes of fire warriors - ~66
devilfish ~30

~90 bucks for a basic starter Tau army.
with the spotters from the devil fish box you can convert a fireblade easy, so not you have a max of 4 6 man fire warriors, 1 transport, and 1 HQ

Or do as I did, and use bartertown/dakka and ebay. 120 Hormagaunts for 50 bucks

If you''re looking to move away from DV, shop at a GW store / GW online and get a tasty army that isn't marines, then there are two boxes that spring to mind:

Tyranid Swarm with lots of, erm, Tyranids in it

Cadian Defence Force:
1 Cadian Command Squad
2 10 man Cadian Squads
3 Heavy Weapon teams
Chimera
Leman Russ

I don't know what that works out as in points off the top of my head but is a very good core to build on

 adamsouza wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
If you're happily pirating the rules, why not just steal the stuff from a GW store?

Get off your high horse, the OP has stated numerous times that they can borrow the needed rule books and that this is an exercise at what they can legitmately buy for 100 EU.

People who are disenchanted with GW brought up the cost of the rule bools and pointed out free online alternatives. I mentioned that if your going to get rules online for free that the GW rules are online for free as well.

Let's not derail this thread by kicking the dead horse of piracy discussion

Oh get off your own. You brought up piracy, and are now pleading to stop discussing it. You have no clue what my stance is on piracy of any kind, whether it be software (virus-ridden OS sounds fun), GW books (don't condemn it, but as I don't play it's of no interest to me) or golden age of on the high seas (more like it).

It is interesting to note that the caveat has to be added that this prospective new gamer can forego buying the rules, or any paints, glues, assembly tools etc (like the GW staffers would let that go without a hard add-on sell) to make the question even vaguely answerable. Obviously when you're a long term gamer it's easy to lose sight of all the sundry costs involved in the wider hobby (my racks of paints must have cost £hundreds themselves, but you don't notice that building up over the... decades. Yikes).

Excluding the natural bloat involved in a Kickstarter pledge, I don't recall the last time a new game cost me remotely close to £100 to start off in. In fact, I'm not sure it's even cost me that to get 'full size' forces in games. 40K is weird.

Modelling supplies do not have to cost a lot.

My primers is $1 cans of spray paint from Walmart
My Acrylics are from a craft store, usually bought on sale 3-4 for $1
My brushes are bought from craft store with 40% off coupons, and occasionally the Dollar Store
Clippers/plyers/blades,etc... Dollar Store
My paint racks are made from cardboard or foamcore

When we gain a new player he usually plays with a borrowed army, codex, dicer, templates, and rulebook.
We usually let him know about Battlescribe to make army lists.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I'm looking at the stuff I've been buying recently. It' demonstrates how little mileage you get out of GW product.

I'd tell them to buy Warzone. You can download the rules for free and a starter box for an army plus a pile of related boosters will come in at less than £100 and have all the rules for them.

Or maybe Flames of War, Dark Sphere does the 3rd edition Open Fire for £32 and you can get a heap of blisters or boxes to make up the £100.

Or Batman Miniatures Game, if they like Batman. Download the rules again, buy a heap of packs for the charactes you like. You're ready to go.

All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe.

As to the OP, I'd advise the website Bartertown if you're trying to get in on a budget, but I think they might be mostly American, so shipping may be an issue.
If the rules can be borrowed, just get any of the Battleforce boxes and you'll be good to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron one is a great deal.

 Pyeatt wrote:


All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe.

Sorry, but Flames of War is on that list and World War 2 was the largest conflict in human history with everything from close combat to the deployment of atomic weaponry. Across pretty much every terrain type and climate imaginable. The "universe" of 40k has nothing on the sheer breadth and depth of the possibilities of gaming in WW2. It's not jealousy to recommend actual history rather than a hodge-podge sci-fi universe that's targeted at teenagers.

EDIT: While I'm not a Flames of War fan myself, I see serious value in their new plastic kits for WW2 gaming in general.

It's funny you get all riled up about 40k then use FoW (the bland over priced 40k of historics) as a shining example of how to do it.

You know your doing that right?

 notprop wrote:
It's funny you get all riled up about 40k then use FoW (the bland over priced 40k of historics) as a shining example of how to do it.

You know your doing that right?

Yeah, that was sort of unintentional. I have long ago done away with using a single source for both miniatures and rules. Some of my 15mm WW2 is made by Battlefront and their new plastic platoons with transport vehicles for everyone are a great value. But I tend to use rules like Battlegroup, Bolt Action and Chain of Command.

I edited my post. Thanks!

---

BG FTW!

I'd get Warlord Games British troops from the Anglo-Zulu war range and use them as Praetorians.

Probably the Anglo-Zulu War British Starter Army for £70, the Heroes of Rorke's Drift set for officers at £7.50, and another Gatling gun from Empress miniatures for £13.

That would be 60 guardsmen, 20 conscripts (the natal native contingent) 4 officers, and 2 Gatling guns to count as whatever. For £90.5

I have no idea how many IG points that would be

 Pyeatt wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I'm looking at the stuff I've been buying recently. It' demonstrates how little mileage you get out of GW product.

I'd tell them to buy Warzone. You can download the rules for free and a starter box for an army plus a pile of related boosters will come in at less than £100 and have all the rules for them.

Or maybe Flames of War, Dark Sphere does the 3rd edition Open Fire for £32 and you can get a heap of blisters or boxes to make up the £100.

Or Batman Miniatures Game, if they like Batman. Download the rules again, buy a heap of packs for the charactes you like. You're ready to go.

All I hear is jealousy because I believe all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe.

As to the OP, I'd advise the website Bartertown if you're trying to get in on a budget, but I think they might be mostly American, so shipping may be an issue.
If the rules can be borrowed, just get any of the Battleforce boxes and you'll be good to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron one is a great deal.

Corrected your post for you.

 Pyeatt wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I'm looking at the stuff I've been buying recently. It' demonstrates how little mileage you get out of GW product.

I'd tell them to buy Warzone. You can download the rules for free and a starter box for an army plus a pile of related boosters will come in at less than £100 and have all the rules for them.

Or maybe Flames of War, Dark Sphere does the 3rd edition Open Fire for £32 and you can get a heap of blisters or boxes to make up the £100.

Or Batman Miniatures Game, if they like Batman. Download the rules again, buy a heap of packs for the charactes you like. You're ready to go.

All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe.

I don't even understand what I'm 'jealous' of. They're just suggestions of other good quality, cheaper games to buy into. I *like* the 40k universe, I still paint the models occasionally, I have a necromunda and mordheim gang here to paint, and I'd like to get into the RPGs like Dark Heresy.

Assuming rules can easily be pirated, a 500 point list that gives a bit of experience with a few different unit types:

Captain
Sniper Scouts
Tactical w/Rhino
Stormtalon

GW Basecoat brush
GW Detail brush
GW Detail brush

Vallejo Game Air (saves on the 'thin your paints' lesson a bit!) Dead White
Game Air Black
Game Air Chainmail Silver
Game Air Leather Brown
Game Air Bloody Red
Game Air Ultramarine Blue
Game Air Gold Yellow.

£100.88 on Dark Sphere

It's tough because that doesn't include glue, knife, clippers, files, rules, terrain or basing but I think you can just about get by without them (apart from glue, so add on £3 for that I suppose).

Otherwise, I think that's a decent start to the hobby for £100.

 adamsouza wrote:
Modelling supplies do not have to cost a lot.

My primers is $1 cans of spray paint from Walmart
My Acrylics are from a craft store, usually bought on sale 3-4 for $1
My brushes are bought from craft store with 40% off coupons, and occasionally the Dollar Store
Clippers/plyers/blades,etc... Dollar Store
My paint racks are made from cardboard or foamcore

When we gain a new player he usually plays with a borrowed army, codex, dicer, templates, and rulebook.
We usually let him know about Battlescribe to make army lists.

I get the feeling you shop at Hobby Lobby occasionally. That 40% off one item coupon is great, and the stores around here have started stocking Vallejo paints.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

I get the feeling you shop at Hobby Lobby occasionally. That 40% off one item coupon is great, and the stores around here have started stocking Vallejo paints.

Good guess. From what I hear, here on DakkaDakka, Hobby Lobby sounds like a place I would enjoy, but I've never been to one.

Around here we have A.C. Moore and Michaels, which are targeted more at soccer moms. When they opened up across the street from each other they ended up in a permanent price war offereing a 40-50% coupon every week.

I'd happily burn one,or both, to the ground to get a Hobby Lobby with casting supplies in it's place.

 adamsouza wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

I get the feeling you shop at Hobby Lobby occasionally. That 40% off one item coupon is great, and the stores around here have started stocking Vallejo paints.

Good guess. From what I hear, here on DakkaDakka, Hobby Lobby sounds like a place I would enjoy, but I've never been to one.

Around here we have A.C. Moore and Michaels, which are targeted more at soccer moms. When they opened up across the street from each other they ended up in a permanent price war offereing a 40-50% coupon every week.

I'd happily burn one,or both, to the ground to get a Hobby Lobby with casting supplies in it's place.

Yeah, Michaels are a rare breed where I am, and I've never seen an A.C. Moore. HL isn't too different though, just has a few things(like casting stuff) the others don't. They're all geared towards Suburbanites.

I use their app, which gives a weekly 40% off one item coupon, and tells me what's on sale any given day. Since the closest one is an hour away it can save me a trip if what I want to buy isn't on sale.

 Pyeatt wrote:


All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe

Yer.... they never fully developed that WW2 storyline, and the ending was just pants.

Ok so how about this

Space wolves warriors of the fang looks like good value for money but is it considered a starter?

That goes for the blood angels battle force - at 70 quid another 30 can be used for Baal predator, dred, sterns, termies, or vindicator

 kerikhaos wrote:
Ok so how about this

Space wolves warriors of the fang looks like good value for money but is it considered a starter?

That goes for the blood angels battle force - at 70 quid another 30 can be used for Baal predator, dred, sterns, termies, or vindicator

Well, the Warriors of the Fang looks to be 105 pounds, unless you're getting it at discount somewhere; either way I'm guessing you won't have anything left after you buy that.

That being said, the box set is a pretty good starter, giving you a bulk of Space Wolves. Maybe you could use whatever money you have left to buy some weapon option bitz on eBay or some other bitz vendor.

Now, did you want to do Space Wolves or Blood Angels? Because the iconography for either will be covering their respective box sets.

Some SM variant, for example.

Codex of choice. £28

Go halfers on two DV with a friend. Alternatively, Ebay the additional models for pretty much the same cost, if not cheaper. Or just ask at the FLGS if anyone wants to split. £52
2 Company Master
2 Librarian
10 Terminators
20 Tactical Marines
6 Bikes

That leaves 20 fething quid for paints and brushes. That's an amazing deal and a fantastic start to 40k, providing you with dozens if not hundreds of hours of entertainment. Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is either a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

 Barksdale wrote:
Some SM variant, for example.

Codex of choice. £28

Go halfers on two DV with a friend. £52
2 Company Master
2 Librarian
10 Terminators
20 Tactical Marines
6 Bikes

That leaves 20 fething quid for paints and brushes. That's an amazing deal and a fantastic start to 40k, providing you with dozens if not hundreds of hours of entertainment. Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

Or they want one of the many other factions that isn't Dark Angels or Chaos Marines. I'm leaning towards the idea that many of the people who complain are the latter. You're right though, it is a good deal if you happen to like one of those armies, but if not, you often have to pay a silly amount of money for even a small starter army.

Yeah.. please guys comeup with a 100er starter set for stuff that is not covered with the Dark Vengeance box :(

RoninXiC wrote:
Yeah.. please guys comeup with a 100er starter set for stuff that is not covered with the Dark Vengeance box :(

Deadawake1347 wrote:


Or they want one of the many other factions that isn't Dark Angels or Chaos Marines. I'm leaning towards the idea that many of the people who complain are the latter. You're right though, it is a good deal if you happen to like one of those armies, but if not, you often have to pay a silly amount of money for even a small starter army.

Who says you need to do Dark Angels? You can do ANY SM variant you want. That's what, 4-5 different codexes? That's a lot of choices.....

And that's exactly how I'd advise a newcomer to 40k to get started...

I highly suggest just posting stuff you want on the swap shop here, or bartertown.

I most recently heard reddit is pretty good as well.

 Barksdale wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:


Or they want one of the many other factions that isn't Dark Angels or Chaos Marines. I'm leaning towards the idea that many of the people who complain are the latter. You're right though, it is a good deal if you happen to like one of those armies, but if not, you often have to pay a silly amount of money for even a small starter army.

Who says you need to do Dark Angels? You can do ANY SM variant you want. That's what, 4-5 different codex choices? That's a lot of choices.....

Not really, though. The Dark Angels in the DV box are fairly obviously Dark Angels, every one of them is covered in the iconography of that chapter. It'd be very hard to use them as say, Space Wolves or Grey Knights. And that's not bringing up the issue of them being outfitted in a very specific manner since they're all snap-fit models. I mean, sure, if you really want to you can use them as 'couts as' models, but you can do that with literally anything.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

Not really, though. The Dark Angels in the DV box are fairly obviously Dark Angels, every one of them is covered in the iconography of that chapter. It'd be very hard to use them as say, Space Wolves or Grey Knights. And that's not bringing up the issue of them being outfitted in a very specific manner since they're all snap-fit models. I mean, sure, if you really want to you can use them as 'couts as' models, but you can do that with literally anything.

Really, you can. Paint them up to be whatever chapter you want. Don't be TFG.

 Barksdale wrote:
Some SM variant, for example.

Codex of choice. £28

Go halfers on two DV with a friend. £52
2 Company Master
2 Librarian
10 Terminators
20 Tactical Marines
6 Bikes

That leaves 20 fething quid for paints and brushes. That's an amazing deal and a fantastic start to 40k, providing you with dozens if not hundreds of hours of entertainment. Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

How much does the friend cost?

So for this deal, you need mate who wants to buy in as well. Its a shame it has such a constraint.

Big P wrote:
How much does the friend cost?

So for this deal, you need mate who wants to buy in as well. Its a shame it has such a constraint.

Alternatively, Ebay the additional models for pretty much the same cost, if not cheaper. Or ask at the FLGS if anyone is interested in splitting. Lots of options mate.

But then you need to buy two DV sets up front and hope to recoup via Ebay, losing costs on Ebay and Paypal charges... not too mention loss on retail value.

Yer... aint working for me. Besides, I picked up the DV Chaos stuff for very cheap on Ebay...

Im not sure basing a premise for expensive game entry on buying two sets to then Ebay parts is a runner... same as the prerequisite of needing a chum. But yes, its an option if you have the opportunity, you are correct.

Surely the 'buy in' with £100 is better done secondhand.

Big P wrote:
Besides, I picked up the DV Chaos stuff for very cheap on Ebay...

This is exactly what I'm talking about.... Glad we agree! DV splits are cheap as chips on ebay.

Big P wrote:
Surely the 'buy in' with £100 is better done secondhand.

This is also a possibility. But I'd still suggest the DV space marine variant options. New models are always better IMHO.

Let's just let the DV box go, please. There are *way* more options into 40k.

Some people might not want the Dark Angel iconography all over their units; while the DV box set is quite nice, there is much greater ubiquity in the regular Space Marine kits, hence my questioning the OP on what sort of SM army he was going for.

At this point, I think it is safe to assume the OP is very aware that DV is the cheapest option for starter materials. But if he doesn't want that set because (a) it has two different armies and there is only interest in one (and no one else to trade the other half to) or (b) the iconography isn't to his liking, then I think continuing to offer greater options is the best path.

Big P wrote:

 Pyeatt wrote:


All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe

Yer.... they never fully developed that WW2 storyline, and the ending was just pants.

That ending was total Deus Ex Machina. I mean, "Oh, a super weapon we've been developing in secret!" Soooo cliche'.

 Barksdale wrote:
Some SM variant, for example.

Codex of choice. £28

Go halfers on two DV with a friend. Alternatively, Ebay the additional models for pretty much the same cost, if not cheaper. Or just ask at the FLGS if anyone wants to split. £52
2 Company Master
2 Librarian
10 Terminators
20 Tactical Marines
6 Bikes

That leaves 20 fething quid for paints and brushes. That's an amazing deal and a fantastic start to 40k, providing you with dozens if not hundreds of hours of entertainment. Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is either a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

What if you want to play an army that isn't Chaos or DA. Not as cheap then. Also a codex is £30 and DV is £65 so that's a fiver for paints and brushes.

 Barksdale wrote:
Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is either a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

Or just doesn't want to play Space Marines.

 Barksdale wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:

Not really, though. The Dark Angels in the DV box are fairly obviously Dark Angels, every one of them is covered in the iconography of that chapter. It'd be very hard to use them as say, Space Wolves or Grey Knights. And that's not bringing up the issue of them being outfitted in a very specific manner since they're all snap-fit models. I mean, sure, if you really want to you can use them as 'couts as' models, but you can do that with literally anything.

Really, you can. Paint them up to be whatever chapter you want. Don't be TFG.

So, what you're saying is that I'm TFG for saying that Dark Angels are Dark Angels, not Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, or vanilla Marines? I'm just pointing out a fact there. If you're going to use a counts as to save money, why not save a lot more money by using a cheaper counts as? Aside from which, it still doesn't help anyone who's not interested in some flavor of Marines.

Necron Battleforce (70) + Catacomb Command Barge (22.50) + Cryptek (9.50)

Blood Angels Battleforce (70) + Dante or Tycho or Mephiston or Seth (11) + Scouts (15) or Assault Squad (20.50)

Tau Empire Battleforce (70) + Fire Warrior Team (22) + Tau Ethereal (9.50)

Daemons of Chaos Battleforce (70) + Daemon Prince (25)

Eldar Battleforce (70) + Farseer and Warlocks (20) + Farseer or warlock (7-8.50)

 Accolade wrote:
Let's just let the DV box go, please. There are *way* more options into 40k.

Some people might not want the Dark Angel iconography all over their units; while the DV box set is quite nice, there is much greater ubiquity in the regular Space Marine kits, hence my questioning the OP on what sort of SM army he was going for.

At this point, I think it is safe to assume the OP is very aware that DV is the cheapest option for starter materials. But if he doesn't want that set because (a) it has two different armies and there is only interest in one (and no one else to trade the other half to) or (b) the iconography isn't to his liking, then I think continuing to offer greater options is the best path.

Nope in no way I am specifying on one type or chapter - as is also a not directed question to aid me since I'm already approaching 6000 point blood angels company. This was merely a question to challenge if indeed it's possible to buy in with £100 with original retail fists at a GW store. Not eBay, not discount shops and non important to use the budget on codex plus rules. This is to have enough hardware to get involved in a game (whether rules are borrowed or pirated) which would contain substance in battle. Then quite simply (paints and glue etc again not needed to be part of budget) what would your shopping list of minis be and to add to it why would you pick these specific items?

SM Tactical Squad 25
SM Tactical Squad 25
SM Devastator Squad 20.50
Space Marine Command Squad 20.50
Jet Packs 5

30 Marines
3x missile launcher
1x multi-melta
2x heavy bolters
2x lascannons
2x two plasma cannons
2x Grav Guns
2x Plasma Guns
2x Melta Guns
2x Flamers
2x Combi Weapons
+ All the options in the command box
+ All the vet Sgt options from Tac box x2

Should be more than enough for a Command, 2 tacticals, a devastator, and an assault unit

Hello. Personally I would buy the Dark Vengeance starter set, You get enough for small armies for both the Dark Angels and the Chaos Space marines as well as a quick start guide and rule book. I would play a few games as each to get a feel for the armies and then purchase the codex for the preferred of the two either the Chaos space marine codex or the Space marine codex.

Dark Vengeance: £65
Either codex: £30
Total: £95

That's just what I would do good luck whatever you decide thanks for reading .

This bends several of the criteria, but I think the best option is the Space Marine Strikeforce from a discounter.

It is fieldable as a a legal CA army, it has a nice balance of units, and with things like the Sternguard in it, has enough bits to actually assemble and tailor with some variety.

It might even be halfway competitive for beginner games at lower points.