Since 6.0 ruined WoW for me (I'm sure other people like it) I decided to give SWTOR another try, especially since if you preorder the expansion you get 12x XP when completing class missions. This allows you to reach level cap in less than a day of /played time and allows you to reach cap by only doing class quests (or Makeb/Illium). It costs about $37 US to unlock that bonus (subscription+preorder).

I haven't played since opening month. As far as leveling goes the game is great, but apparently it is still lacking in endgame. The biggest issue I have with it is that each class I've played feels like it has 1-2 too many primary damage dealing abilities that clutter up the rotation. Aside from that playing a Sith Juggernaut and Powertech to 55 were really good fun. The Sith Warrior class chain is great fun and the Bounty Hunter one is slightly less interesting (but the gameplay of the Powertech is more fun for me). Currently working on Jedi Sentinel and in Chapter 2. Does anyone else play at all?

No class has a better class story than the Imperial Operative. That could have been a standalone, single player game.

Anyway, yeah, I have a 55 Sith Sorcerer, 52 Operative, 53 Jedi Sentinel, 50 Gunslinger, 35 Mercenary and am currently leveling a 20-something Trooper. Being able to skip over all the planet missions is awesome, since hunting Rakgouls for the 10th time was starting to drive me crazy.

Frelling rakgouls.

I have a 55 of every Imperial class, and a 51 Jedi Consular. Story-wise, I'm torn between the Operative and Sith Warrior. Both are good, but they are good in very different ways.

As far as endgame, it depends on how invested and deep you want to go into it. The operations have enough scale in difficulty to allow people to pug it to see the story content, but it also has the hard and nightmare modes for those wanting to push the pve limits.

streamdragon wrote:No class has a better class story than the Imperial Operative. That could have been a standalone, single player game.

The Agent's storyline is great. Lots of 007 meets Mission Impossible.
That being said, the Smuggler has a great story, too, if only for the wacky humour and the dialogues. The Jedi Knight is pretty much KotOR III, lots of epic stuff happening there.

I've got a character for every class except for the two casters (Sorcerer + Counsellor), but my two mains are a Sith Marauder and a Sniper. The former due to style and feeling, the latter because I find sniping to be an incredibly fun gameplay.

As for the endgame, I'd say it depends on what you expect of it. By now there's a lot of stuff to do if you reach L55, though most of it is the usual grind that you have in any MMO where you just run the same instances all day long. They have recently added new content in the form of the Forged Alliances storyline (featuring three new and well-made dungeons that also bridge the gap to the upcoming expansion) and the mini-planet Oricon. SWTOR operations also only require teams of 8, which are occasionally formed as pick-up groups on the Fleet, although you are expected to farm suitable gear.

And then of course there are the minigames of Galactic Starfighter, and of decking out your home in Galactic Strongholds. The latter can be rather addictive once you've started, at least if you enjoy customising and building stuff. Lastly, you've got various events getting kicked off every now and then. I think these days it's Bounty Week again?

 Lynata wrote:

streamdragon wrote:No class has a better class story than the Imperial Operative. That could have been a standalone, single player game.

The Agent's storyline is great. Lots of 007 meets Mission Impossible.
That being said, the Smuggler has a great story, too, if only for the wacky humour and the dialogues. The Jedi Knight is pretty much KotOR III, lots of epic stuff happening there.

>snip<

And then of course there are the minigames of Galactic Starfighter, and of decking out your home in Galactic Strongholds. The latter can be rather addictive once you've started, at least if you enjoy customising and building stuff. Lastly, you've got various events getting kicked off every now and then. I think these days it's Bounty Week again?

Having just finished the Smuggler story line, I'm a bit embarassed I forgot it. I did do the Jedi Knight story (Jedi Sentinel was my first character at launch; nightmare that was...), but frankly Doc's existence wipes out any positive aspect about that story. Okay, not entirely true. The part on Correlia where was pretty awesome.

Fun story: A friend and I were playing Sith Warrior (him) and Sith Inquisitor (me). We started from level 1 together. The background for the Sith Warrior is that you're basically a standout among the usual apprentices; the Inquisitor on the other hand, starts out as a slave. Complete trash until your force power is noticed.

At the very first quest giver, he refers to the Warrior and mentions something about him being the Sith he's heard so much about. My character's chat response was "Hey, I'm a great sith also!"

Think about that. They bothered to write and voice, a response that would ONLY occur when two sith started playing from level 1 while grouped together! That sort of attention to detail really blew me away.

I just got to Hoth on my Jedi Sentinel and I deeply hate this world now. The travel time in this game is really atrocious and is the number one problem I have with it. Taking 10 minutes of flying to get anywhere is not remotely fun and the world setting isn't beautiful enough to make up for it. To be perfectly honest, I haven't seen a zone yet that is comparable to anything in WoW in terms of "damn, they really did an amazing job on this." I guess cartoonish graphics don't really lend themselves well to awe inspiring scenery.

I wouldn't say that. I would say though that yes, the further you go into the game, the more rushed and boring the environments become, and barring Korriban, Dromund Kass, and Tython, there's just nothing of interest to really see. And yes. Hoth is horrible. I hated it there.

I was partial to Voss for appearances in the later worlds. My personal bane was Alderaan.

Alderaan wasn't ugly, Alderaan just dragged on and on and on for so damn long and everything was fighting giant ants. Kilik's sucked in the EU and they sucked in SWTOR too.

Frankly, the Empire was completely justified in blowing up Alderaan. I mean, if I told you there was a planet full of mind controlling ant people, you would want that rock blown up yesterday.

#EmpireWasRight
#DownWithAnts

 curran12 wrote:
Frankly, the Empire was completely justified in blowing up Alderaan. I mean, if I told you there was a planet full of mind controlling ant people, you would want that rock blown up yesterday.

#EmpireWasRight
#DownWithAnts

After having Vector try to get into my operative's pants, I'm inclined to agree.

LordofHats wrote:I wouldn't say that. I would say though that yes, the further you go into the game, the more rushed and boring the environments become, and barring Korriban, Dromund Kass, and Tython, there's just nothing of interest to really see. And yes. Hoth is horrible. I hated it there.

Personally, I thought Corellia was pretty impressive. You rarely see urban environments in an MMO that actually look and feel like a huge actual city.

I haven't been there with my Jedi yet, though. Now I'm a bit worried after reading streamdragon's post.

curran12 wrote:Frankly, the Empire was completely justified in blowing up Alderaan. I mean, if I told you there was a planet full of mind controlling ant people, you would want that rock blown up yesterday.

And besides, Alderaan totally kept a secret stash of weapons, not to mention financial and logistical support for the Rebellion. :p

 Lynata wrote:

I haven't been there with my Jedi yet, though. Now I'm a bit worried after reading streamdragon's post.

Don't be. There have been several pretty key changes to Jedi Sentinels since I played one at launch. Being able to go into combat with full Centering stacks, for instance, if you go Ataru build.

Mainly the issue with the sentinel was that you were in medium armor, but didn't get a healer companion until Balmorra (mid 40s). So going through Taris, with Rakgouls frelling shredding armor AND percentage HP was a nightmare.

Oooohhh, I thought that was referring to the story!

Alright. I'm playing in a party of four, so I've got the healing covered anyways.

Gotta echo your earlier comment regarding the dialogues, by the way. And simply having your character chime in to drop a cool line during a multiplayer conversation is like a game all by itself. Really feels like you're part of a movie.

I think my least favorite planet is Corellia. As far as going places it is like Hoth, but worse.

Well the one time I've been to Corellia I actually didn't mind it at all. They did a good job with the layout.

Corellia is cut up into a few large parts, each of which is separated by a train. There are few QT spots, all of which are the train stations, and there are no speeders at all either. The way to move through each area is on foot or mount and many of the quests are "go to the NE corner and sneeze, now go back to the SW corner and tell someone about it". Unlike Hoth, which is wide open, Corellia is a maze of buildings keeping you from going a direct route to almost any location. I didn't dislike any planet the first time either, but the tediousness of Corellia grew on me. I'd rather go just about anywhere else.

Lynata wrote:Oooohhh, I thought that was referring to the story!

Alright. I'm playing in a party of four, so I've got the healing covered anyways.

Gotta echo your earlier comment regarding the dialogues, by the way. And simply having your character chime in to drop a cool line during a multiplayer conversation is like a game all by itself. Really feels like you're part of a movie.

Oh, no! The Jedi Knight story is pretty good. It's your typical heroic journey stop the bad guy thing. The not-quite-ending on Corellia is a fantastic throwback to everything you've done during your leveling career. Trying not to be spoilery, sorry, but it's pretty good. It doesn't stand out the way that the Operative or Smuggler stories do though, is all.

I just really don't like Doc.

trexmeyer wrote:Well the one time I've been to Corellia I actually didn't mind it at all. They did a good job with the layout.

Of all the planets in SWTOR, Corellia's layout is the worst to me. Sure, you have all the individual areas separated by trains, but the road from one place to another within an area is often the most ludicrous layout imaginable. Want to go from middle right to bottom right? Straight line? Bahaha, no, try going up, through the center, back around that one building (because someone collapsed a building through the path) and then down and right. So many cut backs, switchbacks and roundabout ways of getting place to place there. Hated it. At least Hoth I can generally point myself in a direction, hit auto-run and go get a sandwhich.

Thanks, I feel better now.

Anyone here as crazy about the housing as I am, by the way? Spending way too much time, credits and cartel coins on decoration.

 Lynata wrote:
Thanks, I feel better now.

Anyone here as crazy about the housing as I am, by the way? Spending way too much time, credits and cartel coins on decoration.

I may be addicted to this. Been trying to quit, or at least get my monkey back under control, so I haven't been on as much lately. I have all four houses, though my DK house has the most work done on it (its for my main character). I bought the Tatooine house and was really disappointed to see just how frelling huge that place is. I'm never going to get enough stuff to fill that place.

I won't say how much I've spent on cartel coins to get stronghold packs. We'll leave it at "a lot". I'm not really part of a working guild (just me and my previously mentioned friend), so I can't easily get any of the raid drops or anything.

That said, my Dromund Kass apartment is also the best decorated. Haven't unlocked any of the other rooms, and only the main entry is really "decorated" in the truest sense.

I frelling LOVE the Tatooine place though. I love the layout, love the outdoor areas, and just the general feel. Like squidhills said though, that is going to be a PAIN to decorate.

 streamdragon wrote:
I frelling LOVE the Tatooine place though. I love the layout, love the outdoor areas, and just the general feel.

Yeah, Tatooine is amazing, but it is also amazingly expensive, so I have not gotten it. I have Dromund Kaas for my Imperial chars and Nar Shaddaa for my Republic characters. I wasn't orignally going to get the Kaas City one but I just loved the aesthetic to much.

 Lynata wrote:
The Jedi Knight is pretty much KotOR III

This is true IME but only if you assume absolutely no progress in game design since 2003, which really sums up the tragedy of trotting out a MMO with this license instead of a proper RPG. Sorry if this seems like beating a dead horse but your comparison vividly triggered the original sting when SWTOR was announced and the avalanche of disappointment while I played it.

I think Star Wars is perfect for MMOs. Issue is that both the Star Wars MMOs have been kind of gakky. Galaxies had the open sand box that was just great for the setting, and definitely the game's highlight, but on an overall was just a bad version of Ever Quest (In Space). SWTOR had a lot of neat stuff, but to me, SWTOR was horribly executed. Its like they put all their time and effort into the story lines and voice acting, and that part of the game is really hit and miss. The rest of it just seems to suffer from lackadaisical development.

I have a 55 Assassin. And all I have to say is feth guardians/warriors.

I try playing SWTOR every now and then, usually finish a planet, and then stop.

The class stories are genuinely good, for the most part, and there's usually a couple good sidequests per planet, but between huge travel times, way too much grind and uninspired game mechanics, I just can't be bothered after a while.

SWTOR's big flaw is the lack of something new, it relies, like most MMOs since WoW on grind for the sake of grind to get money out of the player. If that grind isn't enjoyable, however, one can only get so far without shedding players. Consider, for instance, F2P games like World of Tanks or Planetside 2; they're grindy like any MMO, but the grind is actually fun, and what you do to grind is the core, well designed part of the game, not gak you've got to do between interesting things. EA seems to have realized this fact with their current promotion, just play the class quests to advance for X price (which by F2P games is actually not unreasonable) , but I've yet to find an MMO I can really stick with because, at the end of the day, they force you to spend too much time doing boring gak when I could be doing something else.

I loved the story (once upon a time) and got bored with actual
leveling. The game was its best with partying with npcs and
advancing the storyline through class quests.

Good news, right now class quests are all you need!

 streamdragon wrote:
Good news, right now class quests are all you need!

What happens after?

 malfred wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Good news, right now class quests are all you need!

What happens after?

You hang out on the Fleet and RP, duh.

Huh. Pass.

 Psienesis wrote:

 malfred wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Good news, right now class quests are all you need!

What happens after?

You hang out on the Fleet and RP, duh.

Unless the rp system uses /rolls. At which point, you leave.

I have a love/hate relationship with the crafting and gathering system. It takes forever to do anything, but at the same time you can do things on multiple characters at once, which is pretty cool. If only you could queue more missions.

 trexmeyer wrote:
I have a love/hate relationship with the crafting and gathering system. It takes forever to do anything, but at the same time you can do things on multiple characters at once, which is pretty cool. If only you could queue more missions.

Do you have all your allies unlocked? Doing 5 missions at a time is a decent amount. When/If you get Treek and HK it just makes it that much better.

I recently got my assassin to 55, and I have to say, Im really enjoying endgame pvp, even though the gearing system is strange and i wish there was just wow-style transmog instead of orange colored gear.

My favorite planet was Balmorra by far. At least for the sith inquisitor, the rest are pretty much garbage, especially Voss, Corellia, and Belsavis (if you think alderaan and hoth are bad then wait until you see Belsavis).

If you haven't done Part II of the Forged Alliances flashpoint you really should as it takes place on a beautiful island. It also is the prelude to the expansion but that is less important.

Yeah, I've been running the 5 companions around ragged today leveling Cybertech, Scavenging, and Underworld training. Leveled a Gunslinger to 22 and I'm quitting that class for now. Might go back for the storyline, but I absolutely hate the playstyle. It doesn't feel fluid to me at all and is far too reliant on cover. Need to level my Sentinel from 48 to 55 and then my Vanguard next since that'll be the last class I've enjoyed playing so far.

Did my first SM OP on my Powertech and it was good fun. Powertech has been very fun to play and I've enjoyed it and Sentinel the most by far of the classes.

I'm all about the ops. Currently working through NiM DF and getting spanked by Brontes.

 Kojiro wrote:
I'm all about the ops. Currently working through NiM DF and getting spanked by Brontes.

Eek. I've got a full 180 Vanguard tank and I still can't get a group to get past the first boss of DF on Hard Mode.

Are you by chance on Beregen Colony Rep side? That's where I am. We're doing DF/DP HM tomorrow night for gear and we have a DPS spot open.

trexmeyer wrote:Leveled a Gunslinger to 22 and I'm quitting that class for now. Might go back for the storyline, but I absolutely hate the playstyle. It doesn't feel fluid to me at all and is far too reliant on cover.

They aren't necessarily the most mobile class but they are quite boring until 35 or so. Eventually you shoot non-stop from the start of a fight until it ends, but they aren't the most mobile.

Kojiro wrote:Are you by chance on Beregen Colony Rep side? That's where I am. We're doing DF/DP HM tomorrow night for gear and we have a DPS spot open.

Jedi Covenant server, sorry.

What spec to play as then? I'm thinking about switching to Sharpshooter.

I use Sharpshooter. Saboteur is really strong in spike damage later on, but requires perfect timing and position as you have to get all the bombs from Scatter Bomb to be under an enemy to max out your DPS. Sharpshooter is extremely consistent DPS without having to move unless you want to.

If you want PvE, it's all about Sharpshooter. Last time I played it was the highest DPS in the game at the time.

If you want PvP though, Sharpshooter suffers greatly from a lack of mobility. Any Assassin/Shadow or Warrior/Knight worth their salt will annihilate you. For PvP, you want Saboteur, as the AOE damage is both more useful in a PvP setting, and the class manages to be a little more mobile under this build.

There is dirty fighting, but if its the same as last time, if you want Dirty Fighting, the only way to do it is as a Scoundrel, as they just play it better.

If you don't like cover though, you might just not like the class. Unfortunately though, none of the game's ranged classes aren't very mobile. Most of the DPS from them requires them to be stationary. Even though Vanguards/Power Techs and Operatives/Scoundrels have guns, most of their combos and attacks require them to be in melee range for full effect. The most mobile you'll be able to get is maybe a Madness Sorcerer or a Balance Sage.

I played the game from launch until I finished a couple of class stories and then stopped. It's a fabulous single-player RPG, the single worst thing about it is that they made it an MMO.

AnomanderRake wrote:It's a fabulous single-player RPG, the single worst thing about it is that they made it an MMO.

Says you. I would not have wanted to miss out on my four-player Sith party that did the entire game in a giant co-op campaign.

Of course, they could've also made a co-op RPG instead of an MMO, but if I had to choose between a pure singleplayer experience and what we ultimately got ...

The MMO aspect of it is perfectly fine, because as a single-player game it would have been laughably short. It'd just be the story missions, which can be completed in just a few hours.

There's also all the zany stuff people come up with... the number of Grey Jedi guilds on T.E.H. and their often-hilarious members is well worth the price of admission.

(edited because forum software keeps autocorrecting a word that doesnt need autocorrecting)

Granted, in a proper single player game all the time they'd have invested into the other missions would have probably been used to expand on the class story.
However, it would very likely be a traditional Jedi story, in line with the previous KotOR titles. No option to play an assassin/covert operative for Imperial Intelligence, or a cheeky scoundrel, a power-mad young Sith aspiring for greatness, or a badass bounty hunter on the hunt of their life. We'd be lucky if we get to play different species.

Psienesis wrote:There's also all the zany stuff people come up with... the number of Grey Jedi guilds on THE and their often-hilarious members is well worth the price of admission.

lol, true

Nar Shaddaa cantina, 's all I'm saying.

Operative has been much more fun than Gunslinger/Sniper so far. I just can't stand the cover mechanic.

 Lynata wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:It's a fabulous single-player RPG, the single worst thing about it is that they made it an MMO.

Says you. I would not have wanted to miss out on my four-player Sith party that did the entire game in a giant co-op campaign.

Of course, they could've also made a co-op RPG instead of an MMO, but if I had to choose between a pure singleplayer experience and what we ultimately got ...

The co-op conversations were fabulous, but they were few and far between and regrettably linear. It's something that could stand to be revisited.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Operative has been much more fun than Gunslinger/Sniper so far. I just can't stand the cover mechanic.

Go with the healer build. Cover doesn't really matter at that point, since your healing abilities can be used outside of cover. But if you go healer, I suggest you invest a lot of time/money into Kaliyo's gear, because she's your only tank until the end of Belsavis.

Oh heck no, I'm going full damage and playing it like a rogue. Using my Cybertech to guarantee I have a dope earpiece and full set of purple/blue mods and armors every 10 levels.

The middle tree (Concealment) with the knife is a lot of fun and doesn't require cover either. It is terrible until about 25 though, so I would heal at least until then.

They are once again rebuilding certain skill-trees for classes, so make sure you catch up with the news on the forums. Certain builds are now entirely non-viable, and certain abilities have been moved to specific builds, rather than class-wide.

Ahtman wrote:I use Sharpshooter. Saboteur is really strong in spike damage later on, but requires perfect timing and position as you have to get all the bombs from Scatter Bomb to be under an enemy to max out your DPS. Sharpshooter is extremely consistent DPS without having to move unless you want to.

Ahtman wrote:The middle tree (Concealment) with the knife is a lot of fun and doesn't require cover either. It is terrible until about 25 though, so I would heal at least until then.

Well I got over my dislike for the cover mechanic and now my main and most geared 55 is a Gunslinger. Smuggler storyline actually got pretty good during Act 2, I was pleasantly surprised.
Currently trying to get an Operative from 33 to 55 in the next couple of days before early access hits.

Psienesis wrote:They are once again rebuilding certain skill-trees for classes, so make sure you catch up with the news on the forums. Certain builds are now entirely non-viable, and certain abilities have been moved to specific builds, rather than class-wide.

Oh dear god I'm scared.

Early access for Shadow of Revan is out today. Might even be out now. We'll see once the game finishes patching.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Early access for Shadow of Revan is out today. Might even be out now. We'll see once the game finishes patching.

Sadly just because some are getting Early Access that means the 12x XP is over for everyone else. I also may be bitter because the internet went down last night while I was trying to finish a character out.

I'm annoyed too since my Operative is sitting at 45. I just found out you have to finish the Chapter 3 class quests in order to unlock the new ones, so I decided to wrap that up on my Gunslinger (main) instead of finishing out my Operative. I already have 4 55s, so anymore would be a bit overkill now.

Ahtman wrote:Sadly just because some are getting Early Access that means the 12x XP is over for everyone else. I also may be bitter because the internet went down last night while I was trying to finish a character out.

For what it's worth, as an Early Access player I too would have appreciated if the 12x XP bonus would have remained for some more time so I can finish leveling all my twinks.

Damn you, other games!

 trexmeyer wrote:
I just found out you have to finish the Chapter 3 class quests in order to unlock the new ones

Well that answers whether I will level my Commando or Vanguard to 60 I guess. Both are 55 but Vanguard is still on Chapter 1.

I wasted too many hours on my Sage getting the damned Rakata Energy Cubes on Belsavis... but I really, really want the full datacron set furniture item for my Nar Shaddaa pleasure-palace.

I'm really digging the changes to Tactics Vanguard. The new basic shot (Tactical Burst) and almost unlimited High Impact Bolt are amazing.

My Sage didnt seem to have too many changes (at least, not in Healer build, which I'm currently in), though I have noticed some issues (possibly just engine-related, rather than skill-related) with Force Armor being unavailable for initial casting.

I need to test it further, to see if it is no longer defaulting to self-cast, in which case that will suck but I will manage, or if there's some other problem going on.

 Psienesis wrote:
My Sage didnt seem to have too many changes (at least, not in Healer build, which I'm currently in), though I have noticed some issues (possibly just engine-related, rather than skill-related) with Force Armor being unavailable for initial casting.

I need to test it further, to see if it is no longer defaulting to self-cast, in which case that will suck but I will manage, or if there's some other problem going on.

If they messed with my Assassin, ima cut somebody. That's my main character, right there. That's the one I have the most fun on. If they buggered her, I'm going to get Biblical on somebody's backside.

I'm resubbing this Friday, what are the changes to the assassin? Specifically the tank spec.

Assassin/Shadow seem fine to me leveling. Hatred/Serenity is currently the better DPS spec right now.

Most of the Shadows/Assassins I have heard from are pretty happy with the update.

My Annihilation Marauder is, for the most part, unchanged, however the rotations are still in a bit of flux now that bleeds and bleed management are even more central. It isn't bad, but I just run out of slots for the moves I need. :p

Sith Sorc at 60 is Beast. Watch a friend of a friend's Sorc burn down a 60 Commando in about 3 seconds.

 curran12 wrote:
My Annihilation Marauder is, for the most part, unchanged, however the rotations are still in a bit of flux now that bleeds and bleed management are even more central. It isn't bad, but I just run out of slots for the moves I need. :p

Yeah...I think all of my 55+ characters have 29+ key bindings...way TOO freaking many.

After extensive testing, I believe it may be time to retire my Sage as a Healer.Even with an Alacrity/Power build, keeping myself on my feet is a near-impossible task. The heals still cast fairly slowly, pushback is an immense problem, and there's a very poor return on HP to Force via Sacrifice.

Now, granted, this character is not spectacularly well-geared... but, then again, I did shoot her from level 35 to 55 in about a week using the x12 XP bonus, so she's not really had the opportunity to amass fortunes and comms...

.... but I'm still in a complete 140+ set, and am struggling with the Section X/Black Hole/Czerka dailies. Might need to respec into Telekinesis and become a DPS caster, rather than a healer. Of course, guildies tell me that Rishi will gear me just fine... but I point out to them that I can't do Rishi content if I can't complete the FA content.

It appears as if you only ever get one Helper-Droid for the solo-mode Forged Alliance content. I have it on my GS main, but trying to take my other toons through the content is a freakin' slog, as none of them get the droid. So far, Korriban (solo) only makes most of the mobs non-Champions... Elites and Strongs, certainly, in numbers of 4 to 8... which is simply not something that a lone Healer and 1 companion can handle.

So,,, time to respec and re-test. I havent even touched my GS other than to kick off the start of the questline, but I'm told that all the new Smuggler builds are pretty terrible.

It's an issue but by 60, and with the gear there you'll be viable again. My sage is my main and istruggled til 58 or so. Now I'm back to healing hard modes and NiM ops (at 60). That horrible bit you're in will pass.

 Kojiro wrote:
It's an issue but by 60, and with the gear there you'll be viable again. My sage is my main and istruggled til 58 or so. Now I'm back to healing hard modes and NiM ops (at 60). That horrible bit you're in will pass.

Ugh, grinding to 60 like this, just to then go back to do old content, so that I can turn around to do now-current content seems like quite a drag. Especially because you cannot do any of the content from the post-Cartel xpacks without having done FA.

 Psienesis wrote:
Especially because you cannot do any of the content from the post-Cartel xpacks without having done FA.

Wait, what?

If you haven't finished the Forged Alliances storyline, nothing past Makeb will offer you quests. I can take my characters, for example, who have not yet completed the FA flashpoints to, say, Manaan and walk around all day to look at the shiny... but literally no one on the planet will offer me a mission... or dialogue, for that matter. Same with Rishi, and I haven't bothered trying to even find Yavin 4 on a map yet.

1-50 leveling is horrific and needs an update...I dread going through Voss and Corellia for the fething 5th time...

 trexmeyer wrote:
1-50 leveling is horrific and needs an update...I dread going through Voss and Corellia for the fething 5th time...

For me it is Belsavis and Corellia, but I know that feel.

I wish that they had allowed Subscribers to keep the x12 XP bonus to story missions. I really don't want to run both my Sent *and* my Trooper through Balmorra right now.

Well my Operative is almost done with Belsaviis, but my Trooper and Shadow are dead in the water. I would love to level my trooper, but doing Tatooine and Alderaan and Balmora and such AGAIN makes me want to gag.

WoW had a great way around this problem, better dungeons, better lowbie PvP, more quest zones (and more quests piled on top of each other), less travel time, and even a pay to avoid it option by double boxing and using Recruit a Friend.

I would sub a second account and double box in a second if they ever introduced something like RAF...

Well, you could try leveling in GSF. Not sure how many players there are in it on your server, but it's not a terrible plan on Ebon Hawk. I just turn the chat-channels off so I dont have to listen to the butthurt, fly around and blow people up.

Is that any faster than normal leveling?

Yeah, because it scales, and a match normally doesnt take more than 10-15 mins. Depending on how popular GSF is on your server, you can do 3 matches an hour (there's a 5 minute delay between matches opening up the queue, I think, to permit people to retool ships and queue, etc.)

And it also doesn't matter if you win or lose, you still get rewards. Obviously, rewards are better the better you do, but if you luck out and get queued up with an Ace team, you can roll in XP and cash for basically doing nothing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, figured out the problem with the GSI Combat Support Droid and Solo-mode FPs.

If you have the Tactical version of the FP in your mission log already, you don't get the Droid, and don't get the option for the Solo mode. You have to abandon the mission and then talk to the NPC right outside the FP area (usually the gate on Fleet, or the door on Manaan) who will offer you the different modes for the FP.

Select Solo and the GSI Combat Support Droid becomes available and you just enter the FP alone. The Support Droid is *beastly*. 60K HP, can heal for 24k+ and DPS-Tanks like a mofo. With that thing, the Solo Mode FPs are cakewalks.

So I just finished Balmora on my Jedi last night and had Doc join my party.

Wow. Just wow. It's taken seven characters before I found a male NPC that I actually wanted to pursue the romance options with. I mean, I did it with ... umm... Liutenant Plank of Wood on Sage, and Black Wolverine on Inquisitor, and Malavai von Traitorface on Warrior, but I didn't *want* to. I just did it out of a sense of "it's there I may as well". Heck, I found Mandalorian Vash the Stampede so boring I turned him down and told Mako to bang him, instead.

But Doc already seems like so much fun (all of his dialogue, even before you recruit him has a [Flirt] option). He's snarky, he's funny, he verbally spars with Kira (who I also love to death)... I'm so glad to finally get an NPC that I actually want to go through the Romance dialogue tree with.

...It's just a shame that I built this character to not ever need a healer, because of the extreme love I have for Kira. I love Doc, but I don't see actually using him that much. I have a feeling Doc is just going to stay on my ship and get showered with presents until he puts out.

I romanced the following:

Elara Dorne
Corso Riggs (when I played Scoundrel)
Akaavi Spar (when I played Gunslinger)
Nadia Grail
Mako
Vette

Who I would have even though I he has no romance option:
Khem Val. He is awesome and was my first companion since my Sorc was first to level. Our bond is deep and real.

I have actually avoided all Romance options on my Sage, because that's against the Code. On my GS, however... sheesh... Corso is boring as hell. I mean... offensively bland and boring... and he's the only male human Companion available.

I had more fun romancing the NPCs on Voss and Makeb, and the one guy (Potential Spoilers) from NS who you later have to... have some rather strong words with.

 Ahtman wrote:


Who I would have even though I he has no romance option:
Khem Val. He is awesome and was my first companion since my Sorc was first to level. Our bond is deep and real.

This gets at something I dislike about the games... you can only romance a certain specific NPC in each group. Inquisitor gets Black Wolverine/Ashara, Trooper gets Elara/Aric, Bounty Hunter gets Mako/Mandalorian Vash the Stampede, and Warrior cheats by getting Vette *and* Jaesa/Malavai von Traitorface. I found myslef, whenever I played a female character, liking a different male NPC than the one you were "allowed" to end up with (at least with the male NPCs... the female ones don't seem as dull to me). My Inquisitor found Black Wolverine boring and predictable, but I would've given anything to be able to pair up with Talos Drelik: action archaelogist. Or for my Bounty Hunter to hook up with Gault (who had a personality far more compatable with my BH than the "choice" I was given). I get why the truly alien characters weren't romancable (Bowdarr and Blizz, for example) but everyone else had human-ish faces and body types... why didn't Bioware let us have more relationship freedom? Yeah, it would've added like five more conversations per humanoid NPC, but given how big the game's dialogue already is, I doubt it would've put any noticeable strain on anyone to have implemented.

squidhills wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:


Who I would have even though I he has no romance option:
Khem Val. He is awesome and was my first companion since my Sorc was first to level. Our bond is deep and real.

This gets at something I dislike about the games... you can only romance a certain specific NPC in each group

I agree that there could have been more options but Khem Val isn't interested in such frivolity or silliness, he is all rage and smash, so it makes sense not for it to be an option for him. It is part of his charm.

The fact that Bioware did not follow their (at the time) then-current standard of "bi by default" for Romance options struck me as a bit weird. I've heard varying reasons why that was, either because the ESRB said "no" (which I am not particularly inclined to believe) or because LucasArts said "no" (which I am more inclined to believe) are the two most-common explanations I have heard.

squidhills wrote:
But Doc already seems like so much fun (all of his dialogue, even before you recruit him has a [Flirt] option). He's snarky, he's funny, he verbally spars with Kira (who I also love to death)... I'm so glad to finally get an NPC that I actually want to go through the Romance dialogue tree with.

I have literally the exact opposite reaction to Doc. I hate him. I hate his stupid mustache, I hate his stupid voice. I'm a freakin Jedi Knight, I'm not "honey" or "beautiful". My Twi'Lek is covered in scars, jumps headlong into battle and chops dudes down with impunity. Constantly being told I need to be taken care of was extremely grating.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
The fact that Bioware did not follow their (at the time) then-current standard of "bi by default" for Romance options struck me as a bit weird.

To be fair, "bi by default" wasn't really their standard.

Mass Effect you had straight lady, straight dude, and "totally not female alien who is basically bi but not, because she's an alien". So basically 1 of 3.
Dragon Age Origins you had straight lady (Morrigan), straight dude (Alistar), bi lady (Leliana), and bi dude (Zevran). So 2 of 4.

So while you had bi/gay options, I wouldn't say it was the "standard" for all characters.

I'd think the various characters in DA:I having definitive sexualities (which apparently caused an uproar) sort of showcases that BioWare was about the character.


All of that said, I agree that it was odd for SWTOR to not have any non-hetero options. I admit I was more than a little crushed to find out my (female) Jedi Knight couldn't romance Kira.

You are correct on the options in DAI, but you have like 8 to 12 characters to choose from for romance options, rather than 4.

SWTOR still has no non-hetero Companion characters, though you can now flirt with certain same-gendered NPCs in certain locations (Makeb, Bounty Week NPCs in the cantinas, the Sith Lady or Thereon Shan (sp?) in the Forged Alliances storyline and... one other I'm forgetting at the moment.)

Well I've got 3 60's now (Sentinel, Juggernaut, Gunslinger) and the lack of content at 60 is a bit of bummer. Wish they'd bring back 12x XP so I could level my Commando and Shadow.

I absolutely hate Powertech playstyle for both DPS specs now. They really effed over the pyro discipline good. It used to be bloody amazing, not it flat out sucks to play as. Sitting at 55 with 500 professions. :/

Essentially Bioware swapped builds for DPS Powertech/Vanguard from their old ones. DPS Vanguard was awesome at first when I was just doing low level story missions but had problems later until I got the rotation down and realized High Impact Bolt/Rail Shot refresh the bleed effect. Now I just run up and stab them then move back and just shoot a lot, as HIB/RS will proc quite a bit. That is also important since you control you Heat/Ammo by shooting bleeding targets. The old versions Prototype/Tactics regenerated energy (well, vented heat for Powertech) automatically, now the other tree does that. The other tree you used to have to shoot burning targets, which you don't have to anymore.

 Psienesis wrote:
You are correct on the options in DAI, but you have like 8 to 12 characters to choose from for romance options, rather than 4.

SWTOR still has no non-hetero Companion characters, though you can now flirt with certain same-gendered NPCs in certain locations (Makeb, Bounty Week NPCs in the cantinas, the Sith Lady or Thereon Shan (sp?) in the Forged Alliances storyline and... one other I'm forgetting at the moment.)

Er, I was talking about DA:O, not DA:I with the "4 options" thing. I haven't gotten to DA:I yet; actually I haven't even finished DA:O yet.

I haven't done any of the same sex flirting stuff on Makeb or anything. Only been through on my (female) Operative, duoing with a male powertech. He got to flirt and man were those voice overs awkward. Like, not for the players, but the actual banter seemed to awkward in the game.

The Romance quests in SWTOR are pretty terribad, from a writing perspective... but, then again, this is Star Wars. There are elements to the MMO that are direct call-backs to the movies, which also had terribly-written dialog.

Also also... the /boogie command (if you have it unlocked) is almost perfectly timed to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_izvAbhExY


... just to point out how 70s the design of the game is intending to be... hence a lot of the haircuts (and the pantsuits).

 Psienesis wrote:
... just to point out how 70s the design of the game is intending to be... hence a lot of the haircuts (and the pantsuits).

Don't forget all those sweet sideburn options.

Ooh, yes... and the 70s porn-star look you can do with certain outfits and certain moustache options. I mean, seriously, it is Saturday Night Fever all up in this Fleet.

I really, really wish two things would happen.

1) Bring back 12x XP up to 55 for class quests (I still want to do the Sorcerer, Trooper, and Consular storylines)
2) Allow add ons. DoT specs are a pain to play as in OPs since you can't see when YOUR DoTs are about to fall off. Some kind of alert would be lovely. Also, I love DPS meters for the sole purpose of maximizing a given spec and comparing myself with other players to see if I can improve my rotation or something.

 Psienesis wrote:
You are correct on the options in DAI, but you have like 8 to 12 characters to choose from for romance options, rather than 4.

SWTOR still has no non-hetero Companion characters, though you can now flirt with certain same-gendered NPCs in certain locations (Makeb, Bounty Week NPCs in the cantinas, the Sith Lady or Thereon Shan (sp?) in the Forged Alliances storyline and... one other I'm forgetting at the moment.)

You do get to bone that Sith dude on Makeb as an Imp. IIRC.

Haven't done Makeb on an Imp, just Pub, and the only option is a geologist girl... though, iirc, you only get flirt options, I don't think it goes beyond that.

 Psienesis wrote:
Haven't done Makeb on an Imp, just Pub, and the only option is a geologist girl... though, iirc, you only get flirt options, I don't think it goes beyond that.

There is a Sith (male) and Imp Officer (female) that work with you initially to get to the planet but I don't know what the total story is as I haven't finished the Imp side on Makeb. Unlike the Rep side you have to do a bunch of quests to get to the hub so if you haven't gotten so far into it you can't even do Toborro's Courtyard.

Pub side doesn't get to TC until the very end of mission-chain, either. Other than EA cutting out the in-flight animations between the plateaus, I'm actually rather fond of Makeb... but flight-time is (on every other planet) time to refresh one's beverage... no such option on Makeb!

We start at the Planetary Governor's plantation, and you'll run back and forth to this place several times to get updates (why, again, do we carry holo-communicators if no one uses them?) and sent on to the next plateau

The story is also identical to every class (so far done it on both a GS and a Sage), which is kind of lame, but that's how it goes, I guess... though it's much easier on a Sage, as I just go around Forcequaking everything until they fall over.

 Psienesis wrote:
Pub side doesn't get to TC until the very end of mission-chain, either.

No, on the Rep side you can go straight to Makeb and take a flight to the area as the starting point and hub are the same. I have done that several times. You cannot, on the other hand, do that on the Imp side as you won't see a flight point until you have taken over the flight ring over that is the Imp hub several missions into that planet. You can get the mission on either side once you get the right level, but only the Imp side has to unlock the hub to get to it whereas on the Rep side you can get to the area right off.

Oh, yeah, but, then again, it's kind of a Republic world. That's not so uncommon... we have flight points to the entire planet, near as I can tell, but you won't ever visit more than, like, 6 of the 47 million plateaus.

Ive recently popped back on as well... My highest lvl is a 47 Merc, followed by my assassin and probably one other mid 20s character.

I'm on the RP server if anyone can persuade me to come back on.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
I'm on the RP server if anyone can persuade me to come back on.

I'm on "Jedi Covenant"... which I think is an RP server, but I don't fething know.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
I'm on the RP server if anyone can persuade me to come back on.

I'm on "Jedi Covenant"... which I think is an RP server, but I don't fething know.

I don't remember. I've not touched an MMO in over a month, I believe. Time goes quickly when you're not playing an MMO. And are drunk.

Every time a friend of mine asks me if I want to pick up SWTOR once again, I ask him if I can play a bounty hunter with a rifle, or a jedi shadow with a normal lightsaber.

So far, I haven't returned to that game.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
I'm on the RP server if anyone can persuade me to come back on.

I'm on "Jedi Covenant"... which I think is an RP server, but I don't fething know.

We aren't. Or if we are I am doing it really wrong.

Vetril wrote:
Every time a friend of mine asks me if I want to pick up SWTOR once again, I ask him if I can play a bounty hunter with a rifle, or a jedi shadow with a normal lightsaber.

So far, I haven't returned to that game.

The class based weapons limits really bugged me too.

Actually Shadows can use regular sabers, but a few of their of their abilities require saberstaff.

 Ahtman wrote:
Actually Shadows can use regular sabers, but a few of their of their abilities require saberstaff.

Most of the useful abilities. I tried playing like that, you're better off jumping off a cliff, unluckily. :(

The dumbest limitation I found is that, as a sith sorcerer, to cast the lightning bubble that shields you, you need to have a lightsaber equipped. Makes no sense.

Vetril wrote:
Most of the useful abilities. I tried playing like that, you're better off jumping off a cliff, unluckily. :(

I didn't say it would be good, just that it was possible.

Trooper and Scoundrel can't use lightsabers either, how crazy is that?

That there were no impie classes that could use assault cannons really got under my skin. Although it did motivate me to play a trooper and darkside trooper was hilarious.

What annoyed me was that in cutscenes, even though you have a giant assault cannon or rifle on your back, you would always revert to a pistol. I WANT TO SHOOT THEM WITH MAH ASSAULT CANNON! PEW PEW PEW

 Ahtman wrote:
What annoyed me was that in cutscenes, even though you have a giant assault cannon or rifle on your back, you would always revert to a pistol. I WANT TO SHOOT THEM WITH MAH ASSAULT CANNON! PEW PEW PEW

In Dragon Age Origins, you had the murder knife. The knife you only used in cutscenes to kill things off screen. In SWTOR, you have the MURDER PISTOL

 Ahtman wrote:

Vetril wrote:
Most of the useful abilities. I tried playing like that, you're better off jumping off a cliff, unluckily. :(

I didn't say it would be good, just that it was possible.

Trooper and Scoundrel can't use lightsabers either, how crazy is that?

> Implying that a Jedi can use a saberstaff but can't use a normal lightsaber.

I recently returned to SWTOR too, I'm having quite a lot of fun with it but I see it still suffers from the usual Bioware problems, the "If you are good you are a saint, if you are evil, you are the spawn of the devil". I want my Satsuki, the Jedi Sentinel to be a badass, the same as the renegade path from Mass Effect, I'm doing what's good but she's gonna kick ass and she isn't taking any gak or sparing anyone that's on the wrong side of the law.

That means I'm still neutral with almost the same number of light / dark points because sometimes the dark option isn't "renegade", oh no, it's just fething evil

... that's how Lucas wrote it. The Dark Side of the Force is wantonly Evil.

Vetril wrote:
> Implying that a Jedi can use a saberstaff but can't use a normal lightsaber.

>using 4chan implying when you could just state your argument.

All Jedi/Sith can use a regular lightsaber, some just learn special techniques that are designed around dual wielding or wielding a saberstaff. Specific techniques for specific weapon types is not a new or radical idea. One does not complain that long spear attacks are different than sword attacks after all.

 Psienesis wrote:
... that's how Lucas wrote it. The Dark Side of the Force is wantonly Evil.

Indeed. The Imperial Operative and Bounty Hunter aren't quite so bad but Lucas has always presented those who revel in the Dark Side as being fairly evil.

 Ahtman wrote:

Vetril wrote:
> Implying that a Jedi can use a saberstaff but can't use a normal lightsaber.

>using 4chan implying when you could just state your argument.

All Jedi/Sith can use a regular lightsaber, some just learn special techniques that are designed around dual wielding or wielding a saberstaff. Specific techniques for specific weapon types is not a new or radical idea. One does not complain that long spear attacks are different than sword attacks after all.

Except that there is no real reason for locking down a class to a single weapon. If a tree unlocks Juyo, which is a lightsaber way of fighting, why can't I apply it to whatever lightsaber my Jedi prefers? It's just laziness from the dev team. What if I want to use a marauder with a saberstaff, for example? Nope. So much for customization - you get one type of weapon, one type of armor, and now you get to choose even less skills, with the new disciplines patch.

Not to mention other classes: oh look, Boba Fett used a rifle. Can my bounty hunter use a rifle? No? Why? I guess that, following your reasoning, his shoulder mounted rocket launcher is a specific technique designed around dual wielding pistols. Or the sorcerer's lightning shield - you better have a lightsaber or a sword equipped, because you need a weapon to use the force and create a shield around your body.

All in all, if I want to play a class based pvp game with very little customization, I'd rather play TF2.

The class isn't locked down to one weapon, the sub-class is. If you want free form character creation on that level you are looking for pen and paper RPGs. Even then there are limits, but you can just get a DM to let you ignore them if you want.

I can't recall any version of a Star Wars RPG, computer or otherwise, that let a Jedi be all things and use any power with any ability and any weapon.

 Ahtman wrote:
The class isn't locked down to one weapon, the sub-class is. If you want free form character creation on that level you are looking for pen and paper RPGs. Even then there are limits, but you can just get a DM to let you ignore them if you want.

I can't recall any version of a Star Wars RPG, computer or otherwise, that let a Jedi be all things and use any power with any ability and any weapon.

That's because Jedi can't. A Jedi will have an affinity with the force, their master will choose how to act on it. That's when they learn how to use a set type of saber/force technique.

I guess I'm lucky that Healer Trooper can still use rifles. I hate the look of the assault cannons, so I keep my fem trooper equipped with a rifle. Sure, she can't use some of her dps abilities, but she's a healer. None of the Trooper healing abilities require an assault cannon. It's loads of fun going into PvP with a rifle and having everyone mistake you for a dps for the first few minutes. It sure helps cut down on the "kill the healer" aggro I usually get on my Sage.

 Ahtman wrote:
The class isn't locked down to one weapon, the sub-class is. If you want free form character creation on that level you are looking for pen and paper RPGs. Even then there are limits, but you can just get a DM to let you ignore them if you want.

I can't recall any version of a Star Wars RPG, computer or otherwise, that let a Jedi be all things and use any power with any ability and any weapon.

You're avoiding the critic: "the classes are weapon locked, why?" "Not true, the subclasses are weapon locked"... So I'll ask, why are the subclasses weapon locked? It makes no sense. None.
For all its flaws, ESO got customization right: you can use whatever armor and weapon you want, and thus bend the classes' chassis in different directions.

I never said I'd like to use any power with any ability and any weapon. I said I'd like to be able to customize my character to a reasonable amount. Surely asking to be able to use a rifle as a bounty hunterm or forget about lightsabers all together and go all Palpatine on someone as a sith sorcerer isn't asking too much? We're in 2014, guys, and that's from a guy with a degree in computer science.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
That's because Jedi can't. A Jedi will have an affinity with the force, their master will choose how to act on it. That's when they learn how to use a set type of saber/force technique.

As for this, ignoring the fact that at least 2 of the lightsaber styles that were estabilished in the KOTOR brand are still missing (Niman and Makashi), the classes are so restrictive that you can't even fit iconic characters within that particular framework. What's Yoda, to be able to use Ataru? A Jedi Sentinel?

None of these artificial limitations make any sense, apart from "lol keep classes completely separated". It's lazy design and it actively holds back the game. Heck, even WoW lets you choose the weapon you want to use; and that's a game that came out ages ago.

Vetril wrote:
You're avoiding the critic: "the classes are weapon locked, why?" "Not true, the subclasses are weapon locked"...

Well no, I'm just being accurate.

Vetril wrote:
So I'll ask, why are the subclasses weapon locked? It makes no sense. None.

Because you are choosing the type of fighting style you want which includes weapon. Yes, you don't have a realistic option of choosing a saberstaff wielder and not using a saberstaff.

Vetril wrote:
For all its flaws, ESO got customization right: you can use whatever armor and weapon you want, and thus bend the classes' chassis in different directions.

Pretending ESO has no limitations on character building is a bit dishonest here.

Vetril wrote:
I never said I'd like to use any power with any ability and any weapon. I said I'd like to be able to customize my character to a reasonable amount.

Of course you didn't literally use those words, you just want a special snowflake that doesn't follow the mechanics of the game. I understand your criticism, just don't think it is reasonable.

Vetril wrote:
Surely asking to be able to use a rifle as a bounty hunter

That actually wouldn't hurt anything as mechanically a pistol and a rifle are the same. The same isn't true for a lightsaber and a saberstaff.

Vetril wrote:
or forget about lightsabers all together and go all Palpatine on someone as a sith sorcerer isn't asking too much?

No character has ever lived up to what written characters can do. NPCs always break rules, not to mention Palpatine does have a saber, he just doesn't use it all that much. Again for this level of freedom and customization you are looking for a house ruled PnP game and even then you would have to be quite leveled.

Vetril wrote:
We're in 2014, guys, and that's from a guy with a degree in computer science.

If that were a degree in game design maybe that would be meaningful here, but it ain't so it isn't.

Vetril wrote:
None of these artificial limitations make any sense

You not liking it doesn't keep it from making sense, you just don't like it.

Vetril wrote:
Heck, even WoW lets you choose the weapon you want to use

Either you don't remember or you haven't played Wow in awhile and are fantasizing a bit, but you are limited to certain weapons on classes in WoW and even then certain weapons are for certain builds. A DPS Paladin using a one hander (which they don't have access to all one handed weapons) and shield will be quite handicapped in damage whereas a Tank Paladin using a Two-handed weapon (which they don't have access to all two handed weapons) would also be quite handicapped and terrible at tanking. As for why NPCs can do stuff that PCs can't read above but to reiterate NPCs in any situation can do things PCs have been limited to.

Actually, I did study game design extensively, together with computer graphics and coding for real time environments.
In fact, the only reason I am not working in the gaming industry is because my job's paycheck is higher than what I'd earn as a 3d artist or as a game designer, and I still get to make art at work.

With that out of the way...

Let me make sure I understood, I asked why a subclass has to be weapon locked, and you replied with what boils down to "because they are weapon locked"? That's circular logic!
Is there a reason for them to be weapon locked? Again, why can't a bounty hunter use a rifle? You keep saying these limitations do make sense, but yet you fail to provide a reason for them.

You point out that a lightsaber and a saberstaff are mechanically different, but that's the consequence of having classes that are weapon locked, not the cause.
"Mechanically different" is not an excuse for arbitrary limitations: who makes the mechanics? The same guys that get choose who uses what. If they want to widen the selection of weapons that is available to a class, they can rework the mechanics. If they wanted to do that to begin with, they'd have designed the mechanics around it.
Furthermore, effective separation of appearance from stats is nothing new on the MMO scene. Which means that, for some reason, the developers actually chose to keep the classes' options so narrow.

Are we even comparing the amount of character customization of SWTOR and ESO?
ESO does have limitations on character builds, but if you want to use heavy armor on a mage, you can. Want to make a rogue with a greatsword? Pick it up and start swinging.
That's good design - they decided to give a lot of room to the players, when it comes down to tweaking what their character can or can't do. You get to choose, and I can't stress how good giving choices is.
Unconvinced? Let's look at WoW: even the mage, one of the classes with the least amount of weapon proficiencies, gets to choose between staves, wands, swords and daggers.
Compare to the Sith Sorcerer's selection: single bladed lightsaber.
But the worst of it - if as a WoW mage you choose not to equip a weapon for whatever reason, you can still cast all of your spells; in SWTOR, you won't be able to cast some of your Force powers.
Thank you, developer, but I know what I am doing when I try something out of the norm; and even if I don't, it should be my choice. So, stop holding my hand.

As for NPCs being different, one of SWTOR strong points is, hands down, the setting. That a player can't even make a fairly accurate version of iconic characters such as Yoda isn't a good thing. what you collectively call "the NPCs" make up half of the reasons why Star Wars as a brand is so successful and loved by its fan base. If players can't reproduce Yoda, Qui Gon or Boba Fett, a significant part of the potential is wasted. Looking at game stats, the dwindling number of paying players seems to confirm that the license was actually misused.

Bottom line - do you like to play SWTOR? More power to you!
Personally, I'm not going to pick it up again until I am actually given a reasonable variety of character customization.

Because it's designed that way. The game is also about five years older than ESO, from a developer that is less about customization and choose-your-own-adventure gaming than it its about telling a cohesive story with the game being the medium through which that tale is told.

Being unable to make carbon copies of characters from the setting is a good thing. I don't want to see 5000 donkey-caves running around as Galen Starkiller, after all. If players cannot reproduce Yoda, Qui Gon or Boba Fett, I believe that's a credit to the game.

Vetril wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
That's because Jedi can't. A Jedi will have an affinity with the force, their master will choose how to act on it. That's when they learn how to use a set type of saber/force technique.

As for this, ignoring the fact that at least 2 of the lightsaber styles that were estabilished in the KOTOR brand are still missing (Niman and Makashi), the classes are so restrictive that you can't even fit iconic characters within that particular framework. What's Yoda, to be able to use Ataru? A Jedi Sentinel?

None of these artificial limitations make any sense, apart from "lol keep classes completely separated". It's lazy design and it actively holds back the game. Heck, even WoW lets you choose the weapon you want to use; and that's a game that came out ages ago.

To answer your questions about Niman and Makashi. They're both represented. Niman is a balanced form, already represented by Shii-Cho. Makashi is an agressive form, already represented by Soresu.

Adding those two forms would just be additional effort to add nothing to gameplay.

As for the limitations, what part of my answer wasn't clear? Jedi and Sith spend most of their lives mastering one school of combat/force application. There are few exceptions to this, and they're the ridiculously well known Sith/Jedi, like Exar Kun. This is the guy who INVENTED the double bladed sabers, and the finest duelist of his era.

Not every force sensitive has that luxury. Most are average. You can't just have a Force User master all aspects of saber combat, or force techniques, as that is physically impossible to do in a lifetime. Niman itself requires at least ten years of study to become competent at it.

It's extremely rare for a Jedi to be proficient in multiple saber forms. Mace Windu is the only 'mainstream' canon Jedi to have a mastery of multiple forms. Most would have a basic understanding of the forms, but would only be a master of one. Obi-Wan was famous as a master of Ataru, and while Anakin studied all forms but Vapaad (Windu refused to teach him the form), he had an undeniable favor for Shien.

Dooku exclusively used Makashi and is one of the only force users in all of Star Wars to be a master of it (along side the more recent character of the Inquisitor from Rebels). That Makashi isn't present in game is quite accurate, as it's typically treated as a training form, and not one to be mastered.

The only thing that SWTOR gets wrong from this perspective is that none of the forms really specify the kind of Lightsaber to be used. Technically all the forms can accomadate any kind of lightsaber (or two of them) but honestly that's just childish knit picking.


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the classes are so restrictive that you can't even fit iconic characters within that particular framework.

This is also kind of comical;

Juggernaut was clearly designed to emulate Darth Vader, Guardian in turn being designed after Anakin Skywalker and the Soresu side of Obi-Wan.

Marauder and Sentinel are transparently based on Asajj Ventress and Aayla Secura.

Sorcerer is Palpatine, and Sage is Yoda/Luminara Unduli. Assassin might as well be renamed 'Darth Maul.' Shadow is the most out of place, but only because I can't think of any Jedi who made use of a double bladed light saber from the main canon. Just one off characters like Bastilla, her great-so on grand daughter, and that guy from Clone Wars who had 2 of them XD

Power Tech is Boba Fett, Mercenary Cade Bane, both flavors of Republic Trooper are Clone Troopers, Smuggler is Han Solo, and Imperial Agent is Jagged Fel.

Honestly the classes were so blatantly based on Characters from the films and EU that decrying them as not fitting just because the Forms aren't perfectly matched is obtuse.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
To answer your questions about Niman and Makashi. They're both represented. Niman is a balanced form, already represented by Shii-Cho. Makashi is an agressive form, already represented by Soresu.

Re-read what you just wrote. Seriously. Plus, I assume you meant Shien, instead of Soresu.

Even then, Makashi is anything but aggressive. Or a training form.

Anyway. I'd just like to point out that you guys are saying that Makashi, the style developed specifically for lightsaber duels, is supposed to be rare in an era with so many Sith and Jedi? I'm amused by the suggestion. And yes, the style existed during the TOR era.

One thing I am convinced of is that either you do something right, or you don't do it at all: "sort of" is not the same as "perfectly". If you can't fit a dude precisely, then you can't.
Jedi didn't study more than one style because they saw no need, not because they weren't able to - in peaceful eras they picked up Niman because it's the advanced style that offers the easiest basics. Cin Drallig was one of the guys to master multiple styles - and that's all there is to say about this particular issue, I'm not going to be dragged into a nerdy lore debate which won't add anything to the discussion.

Still haven't given me a good reason, but I wasn't exactly holding my breath.

A good reason for what? You getting back into the game? You sound like one of those lore neckbeards that argues red cups wouldn't be behind the bar of a Republic cantina on Thursdays. Exactly the sort of person who makes me log out of MMOs to play Skyrim or DAI.

Basically, no one gives a feth about what styles are and are not perfectly fit into the game, since the EU and even the original films changed their mind during the course of the story-arc.

Fun fact: Vader was not originally Luke's father, Leia and Luke weren't written as siblings in ANH, Padme didn't die in birth (according to Leia) and none of them were intended to be human beings in the original drafts.

And, again, thank God people cannot duplicate canon characters into TOR. Most such people attempting such antics are insufferable asshats.

Vetril wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
To answer your questions about Niman and Makashi. They're both represented. Niman is a balanced form, already represented by Shii-Cho. Makashi is an agressive form, already represented by Soresu.

Re-read what you just wrote. Seriously. Plus, I assume you meant Shien, instead of Soresu.

Even then, Makashi is anything but aggressive. Or a training form.

Anyway. I'd just like to point out that you guys are saying that Makashi, the style developed specifically for lightsaber duels, is supposed to be rare in an era with so many Sith and Jedi? I'm amused by the suggestion. And yes, the style existed during the TOR era.

One thing I am convinced of is that either you do something right, or you don't do it at all: "sort of" is not the same as "perfectly". If you can't fit a dude precisely, then you can't.
Jedi didn't study more than one style because they saw no need, not because they weren't able to - in peaceful eras they picked up Niman because it's the advanced style that offers the easiest basics. Cin Drallig was one of the guys to master multiple styles - and that's all there is to say about this particular issue, I'm not going to be dragged into a nerdy lore debate which won't add anything to the discussion.

Still haven't given me a good reason, but I wasn't exactly holding my breath.

Makashi is a dueling form for a start. And by the time of the Great Hyperspace war, which by the way, occurs before the events of SWTOR, it had phased out, due to the presence of blasters. That's a major reason why it's probably not in the game.

As for the Jedi thing, you're still incorrect. Jedi train from a young age to be skilled in a specific aspect. There are very few Jedi and Sith who are skilled in more than one. You have Cin Drallig, who was the premier Lightsaber combatant of the Jedi Order of his time. And you have Exar Kun. One of the greatest Duelists of his time. Darth Revan wasn't a master of multiple schools of combat, yet you want some Jedi Scrub, freshly plucked out of the academy to be?


You don't instantaneously learn to master a school of lightsaber combat. It takes many years. As I stated, Niman takes a decade to be an adequate pupil, and a lifetime to master.

Another note about Cin Drallig. As far as I can recall, he's the only one to master six lightsaber forms.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Another note about Cin Drallig. As far as I can recall, he's the only one to master six lightsaber forms.

Yup, until Mace Windu came along.

@Vetril: FYI, the reason, mechanically, that the game requires your Sith Sorcerer to have a lightsaber equipped to use powers is because it needs the rating of the hilt to determine damage for your powers, even though they don't actually originate from the lightsaber.


Not that you actually care about the answers, since apparently you can't or won't accept that a class based game has class based restrictions.

 LordofHats wrote:

Power Tech is Boba Fett, Mercenary Cade Bane, both flavors of Republic Trooper are Clone Troopers, Smuggler is Han Solo, and Imperial Agent is Jagged Fel.

Honestly the classes were so blatantly based on Characters from the films and EU that decrying them as not fitting just because the Forms aren't perfectly matched is obtuse.

This is basically how I felt... though honestly, I would have put ANY BH into the Boba Fett Category (I haven't read any novels or EU material in over 12 years... but we'll say I'm interested and looking again)

I also get the notion expressed here that Sith Assassin should be renamed "Darth Maul"




Also, I heard from a buddy of mine who plays, that apparently the story diverges based on your alignment? As in, if I'm playing more than 1 Bounty Hunter, but I make one decide to make "Light side" choices all the time, and the other one "Dark side" choices, their stories will become completely different, with differing missions and outcomes. Any one lend any credence to that? As it stands, I have 8 characters, 4 per side, and each side is the opposing specialty class (as in, my Jedi Knight can dual wield light sabers, while my Sith Warrior cannot, etc), and I'm hesitant to start up yet another character just to find out

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Also, I heard from a buddy of mine who plays, that apparently the story diverges based on your alignment? As in, if I'm playing more than 1 Bounty Hunter, but I make one decide to make "Light side" choices all the time, and the other one "Dark side" choices, their stories will become completely different, with differing missions and outcomes. Any one lend any credence to that? As it stands, I have 8 characters, 4 per side, and each side is the opposing specialty class (as in, my Jedi Knight can dual wield light sabers, while my Sith Warrior cannot, etc), and I'm hesitant to start up yet another character just to find out

It really doesn't. Anything important is set in stone, you get to choose the small details.

As for the guys above... Whatever, it's not like I have to prove you anything, and arguing over TOR's design on Dakka is not going to change the game. Feel free to play the games you like. I happen not to like SWTOR for the reasons outlined above.

Vetril wrote:
Anyway. I'd just like to point out that you guys are saying that Makashi, the style developed specifically for lightsaber duels, is supposed to be rare in an era with so many Sith and Jedi? I'm amused by the suggestion. And yes, the style existed during the TOR era.

If you want to make complaints based on lore, understand the lore. As it is you're just whiny that your favorite isn't represented, even though lore wise there is an explanation for why. Makashi was popular before lightsabers became the force user weapon of choice. Before deflecting blaster bolts was an option. Once the Lightsaber caught on as a weapon, Makashi became insufficient for the needs of force users, and it's practice dwindled. After the Hyper Space Wars it's use was almost exclusive to teaching younglings form and discipline. It was exceptionally rare for someone to master Makashi or Shi-Cho, but Shi-Cho while rarely mastered, was so widely practiced in training and so basic that most Jedi were somewhat adept at it.

Jedi didn't study more than one style because they saw no need

You don't read much Star Wars. Well, neither do I these days. But come on. Most Jedi and Sith were versed in the basics of all 7 forms, but of them forms 4, 5, and 6 were by far the most practiced to a level of mastery and the most represented among duelists and lightsaber wielders.

not because they weren't able to

Unless your Yoda and live to be 1000, hardly any Jedi/Sith would have the time to obtain a mastery in more than 1 or 2 saber forms. Those who did were Blademasters like Windu, and exceptions rather than rules.

Cin Drallig was one of the guys to master multiple styles

He was also THE Jedi specifically chosen for the task of mastering multiple styles. It was his specific job description to know as many as possible. But the Order only ever had 1 'Battlemaster' and that guy had the glorious job of sitting in the Temple 24/7 and occasionally teaching.

You can take the exceptions and call them the standard all day, it doesn't make it the case or your complaints anything more than childish.

I would have put ANY BH into the Boba Fett Category

I say Bane for Merc because the end game armor Mercs had at release was basically Bane's jacket and silly hat XD


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Vetril wrote:

Spoiler:

For TDA: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_II:_Makashi

Maybe your should read that article?

In the intervening years, the Great Hyperspace War and the Old Sith Wars began and ended in fits and starts, which caused the appearance of Dark Jedi and Sith to take on a sporadic pattern. This, combined with the increasing availability of blaster technology, resulted in Jedi encountering ever-increasing numbers of blaster wielding opponents, but only rarely encountering enemy duelists. As Makashi had been designed strictly for blade-to-blade combat, it lacked an effective means of combating enemies with projectile weapons. Due to this oversight, Makashi lost a great deal of its practical applicability, and over time it faded into relative obsolescence... However, the style would see a return to prominence during the New Sith Wars, a thousand years of off and on warfare which saw the rise and fall of numerous Sith organizations. After the Battle of Ruusan concluded these wars, the style once again faded from popular use and never regained any widespread practice amongst the Jedi.

It's almost like this was explained to you.


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Any one lend any credence to that? As it stands, I have 8 characters, 4 per side, and each side is the opposing specialty class (as in, my Jedi Knight can dual wield light sabers, while my Sith Warrior cannot, etc), and I'm hesitant to start up yet another character just to find out

While I wouldn't say the story line's vary drastically, yes. Your choices will effect certain things, some classes more than others. The biggest chances become apparent towards the end of the story lines where Dark Side and Light Side options end up producing rather varying results for the endings.

It's standard Bioware fare kind of stuff.

I stopped reading when you mixed up Makashi and Shii-Cho, Lord. Go look it up on wookiepedia.

PS - my "favourite style" isn't Makashi. You are choosing to read my critics as whining.

Vetril wrote:
I stopped reading when you mixed up Makashi and Shii-Cho, Lord.

No I didn't...

Seriously. If you're going to whine about the lore not being accurately presented (and yes, you are whining) then understand the lore. You clearly do not. You didn't even read the article on Makashi, which essentially says the exact same thing several posters have told you here.

Except that Makashi was developed after Shii-Cho, which was a style used with mundane blades that was adapted to lightsaber combat. Shii-Cho simply wasn't the best way to duel with lightsabers since it hadn't been originally created for that weapon, and that is what led to the development of form II -Makashi, which is still one of the best forms to employ against another lightsaber user. When blaster deflection became a necessity, Soresu was invented. Makashi fell out of practice when the number of lightsaber users went down: why specialize in duelling if everyone else is shooting you?
See, you're not the only one who reads stuff, so get off your high horse.

Furthermore, I own a stack this high of games waiting for me to play them; so tell me again how much I whine about an MMO that I have no intention or need to reinstall anytime in the near future.

Vetril wrote:
Except that Makashi was developed after Shii-Cho, which was a style used with mundane blades that was adapted to lightsaber combat.

Both Shii-Cho and Makashi were developed from previous styles (and hence, why neither has a direct response for deflecting blaster bolts). Shii-Cho was rudimentary to the point of not even being a form of fighting as a much as a philosophy of fighting. Hence why it was everyone's first form, and one virtually all saber users could employ to some degree. Makashi was the first 'true' form of fighting to employ a light saber, but for the Jedi who created it was more of a sport than a practical fighting form. It's practical application in battle was very limited, both because of it's non-answer to blasters, but also because of it's very strict form and techniques as well as having limited capacity for multiple opponents.

II -Makashi, which is still one of the best forms to employ against another lightsaber user.

Makashi represents a case of crippling over specialization, one no force user could afford when participating in the larger events of the galaxy. Even by the end of the Old Sith Wars Makashi had largely been supplanted by Ataru and Shien/Djem-So, the last of which virtually rendered Makashi completely obsolete. Djem-So was widely nodded as the death call of Makashi, an offensive dueling form that accounted for blasters and use of the force in saber combat, and when used properly rendered Makashi easily defeated (which again, read the lore you'd know this. Far as I can tell you're not even reading the Wookiepedia articles you keep telling me to read, cause this info is there). The only thing Makashi offered over it was better mobility, which most Djem-So practitioners made up for with cross training in Ataru. Something easily done since Forms IV and V were developed side by side and had a lot of interchangeability.

Granted, this is completely ignoring the innate silliness of this lore. If anything the basic stance of Makashi would seem to make it one of the best for deflecting blaster bolts. It's based on European fencing, which is all about parrying, blocking, countering and foot work. Likely this is what happens when nerds who've never practiced the martial arts attempt to write some into existence XD EDIT: or a simple explanation for why Form II is so rarely presented in any Star Wars content that didn't care for how much sense it made. But the lore is the lore and we're stuck with it.

why specialize in duelling if everyone else is shooting you?

Why specialize in a form with no answer to blaster when 50% of the people you'll fight are using them? And that's just SWTOR's PvP scene The trash mobs by and large use blasters over sabers.

See, you're not the only one who reads stuff, so get off your high horse.

It's not even close to a high horse to point our your knowledge of the lore appears limited for someone who refuses to play a game on the grounds of lore. I mean seriously. You linked the article, maybe you should read it?

However, the greatest flaw of the Makashi system of combat was its inability to generate kinetic energy in it's application; the focus on precision and blade control hampered an adherent's ability to generate momentum in both offensive and defensive maneuvers. This meant that a duelist who possessed a sufficient level of physical strength could potentially overwhelm a Makashi practitioner, shunting aside strikes from the form's precision offense and simply bashing through it's evasive, footwork-oriented defense. This lack of physical force left Makashi practitioners vulnerable to duelists utilizing more contemporary forms, which emphasized power and brute strength. This weakness was especially pronounced against practitioners of the Djem So variant of Form V, as the style was based almost entirely around fast, strength-oriented swordplay.

Furthermore, I own a stack this high of games waiting for me to play them; so tell me again how much I whine about an MMO that I have no intention or need to reinstall anytime in the near future.

Your the one who keeps coming into a thread to tell us how much you hate a game you don't play for silly reasons.

You nerd to learn to accept criticism if you assumed I hate the game: I hate it so much that I played through the sith warrior story twice, just because I loved it.
The story is good, expecially the imperial agent story, but of you think the game is perfect, you're simply wrong. Don't lash back to me for pointing that out.

Vetril wrote:
You nerd to learn to accept criticism if you assumed I hate the game: I hate it so much that I played through the sith warrior story twice, just because I loved it.
The story is good, expecially the imperial agent story, but of you think the game is perfect, you're simply wrong. Don't lash back to me for pointing that out.

I never said the game was perfect (never even called it good). If you don't want shoddy criticism pointed out to you than get better criticisms.

The only reason I even bothered to respond to your posts was because I found your whole stint about the lack of Makashi so stupid I had to see how far you'd dig the hole

 LordofHats wrote:
While I wouldn't say the story line's vary drastically, yes. Your choices will effect certain things, some classes more than others. The biggest chances become apparent towards the end of the story lines where Dark Side and Light Side options end up producing rather varying results for the endings.

It's standard Bioware fare kind of stuff.

It also only really makes a difference while leveling as there are a few Light/Dark side only items and relics up to 50ish require it. After a point it doesn't matter mechanically as there are no0 restrictions. You get an achievement and legacy ability (that I pretty much never use) on all characters for maxing out one or the other once.

You can also change the way your character looks with enough DS points, if you have that option enabled, which some go for. I'm slightly disappointed that there isn't a similar option for Light Side points.

Really the only decisions I think that players should be aware of is in the Warriors story line. Romancing Jaesa is not an option if you don't turn her to the Dark Side, something that requires certain choices (somewhat) to be done earlier in the game. I don't think any of the Bounty Hunter's choices really matter. Yeah, it's harder to romance Mako as a Dark Side bounty hunter, but you can just go DA:O and give her a whole bunch of gifts and she'll forgive all the innocents you've killed XD EDIT: Though now that I think of it, I think certain Light Side options need to be taken to romance Ashara, and one Dark Side choice to romance Kira. But those choices were plainly obvious when they were presented to me.

Beyond that though other than items there's not that much that changes until the endings and I don't think you need to play Dark Side the whole game to see the 'Dark Side Ending.' Just make that choice at the end. The only class where your end of the game alignment matters I think is the Inquisitor and only because you get a different name based on where you're light, dark, or neutral (which has 0 gameplay effect).


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 Psienesis wrote:
You can also change the way your character looks with enough DS points, if you have that option enabled, which some go for. I'm slightly disappointed that there isn't a similar option for Light Side points.

Haven't you read Tolkein? Everyone knows being light side makes you pretty

I forgot about the visualization optional change. My Jugger is full on Dark Side and has the whole pale skin, red eyes, and veins popping out thing going on. Really the only Dark Siders I have are the Juggernaut and Assassin as everyone else is either all Lightside or neutral. My Agent was to much of a man of honor to be Darkside. His muttonchops wouldn't allow such a thing.

Its odd to me, because I found the Light Side far funner on Sith side (loved Light Side Inquisitor), and Dark Side funner on Republic side. Though it's probably helped that the Republic storyline's varied from bad to omfgwtf wrote the Trooper dialogue?! Never before has Jennifer Hale's talent been so wasted as the Trooper storyline XD Needed the evil douchebaggery to keep it interesting.

 LordofHats wrote:
The only reason I even bothered to respond to your posts was because I found your whole stint about the lack of Makashi so stupid I had to see how far you'd dig the hole

Way to miss my point.

Vetril wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
The only reason I even bothered to respond to your posts was because I found your whole stint about the lack of Makashi so stupid I had to see how far you'd dig the hole

Way to miss my point.

Your entire point was that the game is too limiting because you want to be able to have access to every form as a Jedi.

Allow me to reiterate, THAT ISN'T HOW JEDI WORK. Time and time again, we have explained why the game is set the way it is, and as someone who is Oh-so-familiar with the Lore(I've read the EU books, even though they're not canon anymore. As well as having played every PnP RPG Star Wars had to date.), I can tell you that the game is correctly limiting from a lore, and gameplay perspective.

The player character is not a super-Jedi.The player Jedi isn't as powerful as Revan, who isn't skilled enough to master more than one school of lightsaber conflict. Furthermore, the player characters are spawned at a time during which Jedi are taught the schools of combat that best fit the war, and from a class perspective, giving the BH a rifle makes it far too similar to the Agent.

The Forms still appear to be canon. In Rebels, Form III is acknowledged by the Inquisitor, who himself fights with the very distinct Makashi style. His description of Form III is perfectly in line with Soresu.

He also acknowledges Deba Billaba as the master who trained Kaden, who in the old lore was a master of Vaapad but did not teach it to her students; she taught them Form III instead.

Disney's decision on Canon was never about throwing all the old lore out the window, simply freeing themselves from being bound to years and years of it. Thus far, it seems the Forms are still kosher.

and from a class perspective, giving the BH a rifle makes it far too similar to the Agent.

But my BH would be so much better with a rifle XD

 LordofHats wrote:

and from a class perspective, giving the BH a rifle makes it far too similar to the Agent.

But my BH would be so much better with a rifle XD

Perhaps carbine would be the better term??

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Vetril wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
The only reason I even bothered to respond to your posts was because I found your whole stint about the lack of Makashi so stupid I had to see how far you'd dig the hole

Way to miss my point.

Your entire point was that the game is too limiting because you want to be able to have access to every form as a Jedi.

Allow me to reiterate, THAT ISN'T HOW JEDI WORK. Time and time again, we have explained why the game is set the way it is, and as someone who is Oh-so-familiar with the Lore(I've read the EU books, even though they're not canon anymore. As well as having played every PnP RPG Star Wars had to date.), I can tell you that the game is correctly limiting from a lore, and gameplay perspective.

The player character is not a super-Jedi.The player Jedi isn't as powerful as Revan, who isn't skilled enough to master more than one school of lightsaber conflict. Furthermore, the player characters are spawned at a time during which Jedi are taught the schools of combat that best fit the war, and from a class perspective, giving the BH a rifle makes it far too similar to the Agent.

Technically speaking, Jedi ought to have [i[access[/i] to every form. That's different from mastery of every form.

Seaward wrote:
Technically speaking, Jedi ought to have access to every form. That's different from mastery of every form.

Technically the character does have access to any form, the player is just making a character that has chosen to learn one form. If you re-specialize one can have the ability to master up to three forms, essentially.

It's also a completely childish thing to quibble about. It's like people who argue about whether The Menagerie is 1 episode or 2.

Seaward wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Vetril wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
The only reason I even bothered to respond to your posts was because I found your whole stint about the lack of Makashi so stupid I had to see how far you'd dig the hole

Way to miss my point.

Your entire point was that the game is too limiting because you want to be able to have access to every form as a Jedi.

Allow me to reiterate, THAT ISN'T HOW JEDI WORK. Time and time again, we have explained why the game is set the way it is, and as someone who is Oh-so-familiar with the Lore(I've read the EU books, even though they're not canon anymore. As well as having played every PnP RPG Star Wars had to date.), I can tell you that the game is correctly limiting from a lore, and gameplay perspective.

The player character is not a super-Jedi.The player Jedi isn't as powerful as Revan, who isn't skilled enough to master more than one school of lightsaber conflict. Furthermore, the player characters are spawned at a time during which Jedi are taught the schools of combat that best fit the war, and from a class perspective, giving the BH a rifle makes it far too similar to the Agent.

Technically speaking, Jedi ought to have [i[access[/i] to every form. That's different from mastery of every form.

Not really. If you don't train in combat, you'll have basic knowledge of Shii-Cho. That's it. Not all Jedi train in combat.

Also, as to the recreation or attempt at being Boba Fett...

There is not yet an in-game vehicle of a Chevrolet Corvette, so you cannot possibly be Boba Fett, as you will not have Fett's 'Vette.

I downloaded this last night and gave it a shot. Seems fun so far, but IMO I liked Wildstar better right outta the box. I made a sith inquisitor and I'm level 8 or so right now. I noticed I can get light side points or dark, would a light-side sith be dumb? Or am I better off giving in to my hate and suffering?

I'll probably just do the free to play version.. is it worth subscribing? I'll probably just be playing occasionally so I wasn't sure if $15 a month was worth it

 Necros wrote:
I downloaded this last night and gave it a shot. Seems fun so far, but IMO I liked Wildstar better right outta the box. I made a sith inquisitor and I'm level 8 or so right now. I noticed I can get light side points or dark, would a light-side sith be dumb? Or am I better off giving in to my hate and suffering?

I'll probably just do the free to play version.. is it worth subscribing? I'll probably just be playing occasionally so I wasn't sure if $15 a month was worth it

From what I've been made to understand (and it's been talked about earlier in the thread).... Having some characters go "against the grain" can lead to some interesting/funny situations. Ultimately, when those decisions come up, do what feels natural to you

Essentially it boil down to Light Side being honorable and Dark Side being out for the path of least resistance. A Sith can be honorable and a Jedi can be indifferent to the lives of others, which obliviously leads to interesting options often.

Oh, so it's just for storyline stuff? I was thinking there would be special weapons or gear that only a light side or dark side could use

 Necros wrote:
Oh, so it's just for storyline stuff? I was thinking there would be special weapons or gear that only a light side or dark side could use

Well there are relics up to a point only one side or the other can use, but that is pretty much only till 50 (I think). After 50 the Light/Dark side requirement disappears. At lower levels I remember seeing a few lightsabers with requirements but that is about it. If you want the dark side visual you have to have it turned on and level DS.

I downloaded this a while ago when it went free to play. I don't know if I ran into a glitch or what, but it seemed like all of my character's animations were incredibly off. Like, I'd hit a skill, it would do damage to an enemy, and my character would just not do anything until a few seconds later, or there were times when I'd get knocked down, but still be able to skim around on my back before my character stood back up. It was just so jarring and hard to watch that I couldn't stand to play past the first few missions. Did anyone else have to deal with that, or was it just me?

Sounds like a glitch or horrible connection. Never had that issue.

Downloaded this a month or two back and had a blast doing the F2P option; Female Inquisitor (feels right, oddly) and had an absolute blast.

Of course I know NOTHING about the universe outside of the movies and various tiny bits of trivia...so that sort of takes a bit of the shine off. But overall, I think it's a pretty decent game, should have been KotOR 3 in my opinion not an mmo, but still fun times.

Also, I've only played bits of KotOR, would that be a good way to finish my introduction to the universe and maybe prep myself a bit better for SWTOR?

Welp. I re-DL'd it. If anyone wants to do some stuff. I RP on the EU RP server.

 Frankenberry wrote:
Downloaded this a month or two back and had a blast doing the F2P option; Female Inquisitor (feels right, oddly) and had an absolute blast.

Of course I know NOTHING about the universe outside of the movies and various tiny bits of trivia...so that sort of takes a bit of the shine off. But overall, I think it's a pretty decent game, should have been KotOR 3 in my opinion not an mmo, but still fun times.

Also, I've only played bits of KotOR, would that be a good way to finish my introduction to the universe and maybe prep myself a bit better for SWTOR?

You don't need to know much at all about the SW universe outside of the films to enjoy the game... and, in fact, you might find yourself better off not getting dragged into the interminable arguments in Gen Chat over what is and is not "canon".

But those are my favorite arguments in Gen Chat!

 Psienesis wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
Downloaded this a month or two back and had a blast doing the F2P option; Female Inquisitor (feels right, oddly) and had an absolute blast.

Of course I know NOTHING about the universe outside of the movies and various tiny bits of trivia...so that sort of takes a bit of the shine off. But overall, I think it's a pretty decent game, should have been KotOR 3 in my opinion not an mmo, but still fun times.

Also, I've only played bits of KotOR, would that be a good way to finish my introduction to the universe and maybe prep myself a bit better for SWTOR?

You don't need to know much at all about the SW universe outside of the films to enjoy the game... and, in fact, you might find yourself better off not getting dragged into the interminable arguments in Gen Chat over what is and is not "canon".

None of it i canon anymore!

 Psienesis wrote:


You don't need to know much at all about the SW universe outside of the films to enjoy the game... and, in fact, you might find yourself better off not getting dragged into the interminable arguments in Gen Chat over what is and is not "canon".

Ironically, last night on one of the Imperial planets, Gen chat was flooded with "where do you get your news from" arguments, and US politics

General Chat in any game's hub(s) tend to be fairly awful.

It is no exception in TOR. The first thing I do is turn it off.

So I just hit 60 on my assassin. I like the story for SoR. Except how it portrays the player character.

I decided to subscribe for a month. Is it worth downloading that shadow of revan DLC? It was like $20 more. Or is it just for high level stuff?

I ended up sticking with a darth maul looking bounty hunter, probably because I have Mako tagging along to heal me.

Is the storyline pretty much the same for all characters, except for some class missions thrown in?

Each class has a unique storyline that travels with them all the way from 1 to 50. Each planet also has a storyline that all classes have that is unique to the planet and some sidequests.

Can you get new and better starships? The one I stole from the hangar is cool and all, but it'd be cool if you can get big ones. I'd rather have a big starship to decorate than a dumb stronghold. They should have done that in place of houses. I want my own star destroyer.

 Necros wrote:
Can you get new and better starships? The one I stole from the hangar is cool and all, but it'd be cool if you can get big ones. I'd rather have a big starship to decorate than a dumb stronghold. They should have done that in place of houses. I want my own star destroyer.

What you have described is a guild flagship.

 Necros wrote:
Can you get new and better starships? The one I stole from the hangar is cool and all, but it'd be cool if you can get big ones. I'd rather have a big starship to decorate than a dumb stronghold. They should have done that in place of houses. I want my own star destroyer.

Guilds can get those.

 Necros wrote:
I decided to subscribe for a month. Is it worth downloading that shadow of revan DLC? It was like $20 more. Or is it just for high level stuff?

I ended up sticking with a darth maul looking bounty hunter, probably because I have Mako tagging along to heal me.

Is the storyline pretty much the same for all characters, except for some class missions thrown in?

Shadow of Revan adds high end content(55-60). And new planets. The story is good. Also, Gary. Gary is the best Sith ever, and he's not even a Sith!

Also, for healing you'll end up getting Treek. Everyone does.

ah, figures. I usually don't join guilds anymore :( I don'y play often enough, and sooner or later they always turn into dramafests over the stupidest things.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Necros wrote:
I decided to subscribe for a month. Is it worth downloading that shadow of revan DLC? It was like $20 more. Or is it just for high level stuff?

I ended up sticking with a darth maul looking bounty hunter, probably because I have Mako tagging along to heal me.

Is the storyline pretty much the same for all characters, except for some class missions thrown in?

Shadow of Revan adds high end content(55-60). And new planets. The story is good. Also, Gary. Gary is the best Sith ever, and he's not even a Sith!

Also, for healing you'll end up getting Treek. Everyone does.

I think people get Treek for the flexibility of Tanking or Healing. I know quite a few that don't use Treek of course. She is really nice but not necessary. I would use HK51 more if there were more endgame armor for droids.

I like the idea of companions, I kinda wish they'd let you take a full party, and they'd talk to each other as you travel around like other bioware games. Then you'd be able to quests you need a full party for, but maybe have the loot goodness scale up for the more real players you group with or something like that.

So far I just have Mako and not-3P0. So how does crafting work, 1 companion can learn 1 skill, so if you have 3 companions you can have 3 skills? I took underworld trading for Mako, just because it seemed right for a bounty hunter.

 Necros wrote:

So far I just have Mako and not-3P0. So how does crafting work, 1 companion can learn 1 skill, so if you have 3 companions you can have 3 skills? I took underworld trading for Mako, just because it seemed right for a bounty hunter.

Not quite... you can have 1 crafting, one gathering and one "questing" skill.... it helps to pick a crafting skill that matches well with the gathering skills (the "questing" skill is another means of gathering materials for crafting)

For instance, my main is a BH as well, and I took Cybertech, Underworld Trading and Scavenging (IIRC). Initially, you can have 1 companion doing crafting, but as you level up and gain more companions, you can send more out on missions/crafting to build it up quicker.

 Necros wrote:
I like the idea of companions, I kinda wish they'd let you take a full party, and they'd talk to each other as you travel around like other bioware games. Then you'd be able to quests you need a full party for, but maybe have the loot goodness scale up for the more real players you group with or something like that.

So far I just have Mako and not-3P0. So how does crafting work, 1 companion can learn 1 skill, so if you have 3 companions you can have 3 skills? I took underworld trading for Mako, just because it seemed right for a bounty hunter.

Crafting is broken down into two types of Crew Skills, crafting ones and gathering ones. Your entire crew of NPCs do missions and crafting from those.

If you're a subscriber, you can have 2 gathering ones and 1 crafting one. Your NPCs do all of them and all share the same skill level, so it is not like Mako is only good at this. All of your crew are equal save for the small buffs and advantages they each have to specific skills.

I think you are only limited to one crafting skill. I have a character that has three gathering (Archeology, Bioanalysis, and Scavenging). I am a subscriber though so I don't know what the limitations are beyond that.

As far as missions just divide your level and that is how many comps you can have craft/on a mission at a time.

20+ = 2+
30+ = 3+
40+ = 4+
50+ = 5

Five is the max I believe, even if you hit 60 with the new expansion.

Cool. Right now I have Mako and the droid from my ship, RV-something. So does that mean I can learn a 2nd skill now? What goes good with Underworld Trading? Folks in chat were saying I should have given mako cybertech but it's too late now. I have underworld trading up to around 200 now, I send them both out to get stuff, or just the droid when I'm out killing stuff. I've mostly been going for the companion gift missions, but half the time I get junk that neither of them want :/

I'm on the Jedi Convent server, name is Sinistrah

So what's the deal with the leagacy thing? Do you need to play tons of alts to get good xp with that? I know the way I usually play these kinds of games is once I get to the end of the main story I usually quit, so I figured I'd probably do a dark side and a light side guy since it will be 2 different stories. I know the class stories will be different but if the rest of the game is the same I'll probably get bored with alts pretty quick. That's what happened with Wildstar, I maxed 1 character, then got bored and made alts then quit a couple weeks later since I ended up doing the same missions over and over.

 Necros wrote:
Cool. Right now I have Mako and the droid from my ship, RV-something. So does that mean I can learn a 2nd skill now? What goes good with Underworld Trading? Folks in chat were saying I should have given mako cybertech but it's too late now. I have underworld trading up to around 200 now, I send them both out to get stuff, or just the droid when I'm out killing stuff. I've mostly been going for the companion gift missions, but half the time I get junk that neither of them want :/

I'm on the Jedi Convent server, name is Sinistrah

As stated earlier, Underworld Trading is a "gathering" type skill. You use it to gather materials for crafting recipes and whatnot. Cybertech is one of the skills that goes very well with Underworld Trading. I can't remember, but if you're not subscribed (as in, f2p) you may only be able to get one crew skill, but once you Sub, you're able to have 3.

I'm also on Jedi Covenant, but under many guises

Underworld Trading is a quest skill that gets rare mats: blues and occasionally purples; it is not a crafting skill. I'll list the crafting skills and their gathering/quest skills that are synergistic.

Cybertech: Makes armor, mods, droid parts (up to a point), and some ship parts. Scavenge and Underword Trading.

Armorcraft: Makes Armor for non-force users and augments. Scavenge and Underworld Trading

Weaponcraft: Makes Barrels, augments, and weapons for non-force users. Scavenge and Investigation.

Synthweaving: Makes Armor for force users and augments. Archeology and Underworld Trading

Artifice: Makes weapons and hilts for force users as well as relics, enhancements, and augments. Archeology and Treasure Hunting

Biochemistry: Make health potions and stat buffs. Some are reusable for Biochem only. Bioanalysis and Diplomacy.

Slicing: Quest that gets money and sliced parts which are used to make augments. Doesn't craft anything nor does it directly tie to any craft, but any craft can use it late game.

Slicing can also reward you with blueprints used by any of the other crafting skills. It is, in essence, the crafting skill that crafts credits.

I'm subbed for now, dunno if I will stay subbed unless it can hold my interest when I feel like I'm "maxxed" .. though I do like how there's a lot more to offer than just grinding and raiding, the starfighter game is pretty fun even though I haven't gotten a single kill yet. Would be cool if they add other stuff like that, maybe pod races

I call any skill you use to make stuff "crafting" skills even if they're not technically. I'm an old dog and I can't learn too many new tricks I'll pick up cybertech then with my droid and then I guess scavenging with the next guy I get.

What happens if i have like 4 different characters in my legacy, and then switch back to the free version where they say you cna only have 2?

 Necros wrote:

I'll pick up cybertech then with my droid and then I guess scavenging with the next guy I get.

Lol, Cybertech goes to your Player Character. Mako actually has a bonus to Cybertech (so she's actually one of the better choices to craft things, especially if her affection rating is maxed). As the crafting goes to your PC, ANYONE of your companions can do any of your "crafting" skills.

oh hehe .. I guess I read it wrong before, I thought it was that your companion was learning it, which seemed like a silly idea.

Nope, they just perform the tasks... sort of.

Any of the Gathering skills that you use "in the field" are, by default, attached to the Companion as an animation (they're the one who will scan the node and pick up the whatever), but you can disable that and do it yourself, if you want.

The Crafting skills, that is, the skills that actually build an item of some kind, those *do* require a Companion to actually perform the task. Certain Companions get a bonus to certain tasks, which can become something of an edge when building items with expensive components... after all, if one Companion has a better chance of a critical success, which will reward you with 2 rather than 1 of said items, then you'll want them doing most of the work.

 Psienesis wrote:
Slicing can also reward you with blueprints used by any of the other crafting skills. It is, in essence, the crafting skill that crafts credits.

It has such a few number of schematics that pop up over and over that they are practically worthless. It is nice but the GTN is flooded with those schematics.

I ended up going with Underworld trading, cyberware and scavenging. I need to get scavenging up to like 90 though for the zones I'm in now. I'm assuming it can go up just from finding stuff, and I can do missions for the other skills?

Cybercraft makes the stuff. You gain skill in it by crafting things. You get scematics though Reverse Engineering, the Trainer, or as random drops from Slicing/mobs(GTN).

Scavenging is a gathering skill you gain levels in by scavenging sliver or better droids or sending comps out but that is usually a poor investment and slower than killing stuff and scavenging.

Underworld Trading gets you rare (blue and purple) materials you need to make blue and purple items. Cybercrafting will only use the Underworld Metals. You gain levels by sending companions on missions.

And I've not even been playing for two months...

That Sorcerer will never be leveled unless they bring back 12x XP. Regular leveling sucks.

Nice DK crib.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ahtman wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Necros wrote:
I decided to subscribe for a month. Is it worth downloading that shadow of revan DLC? It was like $20 more. Or is it just for high level stuff?

I ended up sticking with a darth maul looking bounty hunter, probably because I have Mako tagging along to heal me.

Is the storyline pretty much the same for all characters, except for some class missions thrown in?

Shadow of Revan adds high end content(55-60). And new planets. The story is good. Also, Gary. Gary is the best Sith ever, and he's not even a Sith!

Also, for healing you'll end up getting Treek. Everyone does.

I think people get Treek for the flexibility of Tanking or Healing. I know quite a few that don't use Treek of course. She is really nice but not necessary. I would use HK51 more if there were more endgame armor for droids.

People get Treek because she's funny, and her intro video has her cock-punch about half a dozen people on her way to meet you. This is because she's an Ewok, and can't reach much higher... but she comes well-armed with a bowcaster, bee-bombs, a bow that shoots giant wooden arrows through fools, an auto-deploying wood-and-leather hang-glider, and a sling for deploying kolto-bombs.

Also, again, she's a murderous Ewok. She probably eats your defeated foes when you aren't looking. Also, her post-combat comments are often lol-worthy.

So. Anyone here on Progenitor?

 Psienesis wrote:
People get Treek because she's funny, and her intro video has her cock-punch about half a dozen people on her way to meet you. This is because she's an Ewok, and can't reach much higher... but she comes well-armed with a bowcaster, bee-bombs, a bow that shoots giant wooden arrows through fools, an auto-deploying wood-and-leather hang-glider, and a sling for deploying kolto-bombs.

Also, again, she's a murderous Ewok. She probably eats your defeated foes when you aren't looking. Also, her post-combat comments are often lol-worthy.

I've got Treek on almost every character and the only part of that statement that is agreeable is the description of abilities.

I am about to start playing the game for the first time since the Beta. Anyone want to join me?

I heard there's a jawa companion bounty hunters can get? is he better than the ewok? return of the jedi made me hate ewoks :(

 Necros wrote:
I heard there's a jawa companion bounty hunters can get? is he better than the ewok? return of the jedi made me hate ewoks :(

I don't know about the Ewok companion, but yes, the Bounty Hunters do get a Jawa. My "main" is a Merc, and I have to say, up through lvl 52, Blizz (the Jawa) and Mako (the human ish healer type) are quite possibly the best base game companions there are.



The Ewok is a Cartel market option, you dont HAVE to get it... same with the HK droid (only difference is HK is a quest line, not Cartel... but it's still optional)

I got my legacy to level 2 the other day, but I couldn't really find anything in the legacy menu that i wanted. And it seemed like some of the good bonuses like for companions were only for one character and not all, I thought the whole point was it unlocked stuff for your whole "family". I guess I'll wait and use it to unlock other races for alts.

I've been using Mako, she's great. I have her set for healing mode but she still fights good too. I have the droid from my ship and a new guy Galt now, who I never even bothered to take anywhere. I have Mako up to around 9000 affection now. What happens if you get someone to 10,000?

Been doing good with cybernetics now too. I never knew you could reverse engineer stuff till yesterday the first time I did it, I got a blue plan, and then the very first blue I did gave me a purple must have been good luck because it hasn't happened since. But between scavenging and underworld trading I've been able to raise that pretty easily.

 Necros wrote:


I've been using Mako, she's great. I have her set for healing mode but she still fights good too. I have the droid from my ship and a new guy Galt now, who I never even bothered to take anywhere. I have Mako up to around 9000 affection now. What happens if you get someone to 10,000?

With Mako and a male Bounty Hunter? Usually tongue-kissing.

squidhills wrote:

 Necros wrote:


I've been using Mako, she's great. I have her set for healing mode but she still fights good too. I have the droid from my ship and a new guy Galt now, who I never even bothered to take anywhere. I have Mako up to around 9000 affection now. What happens if you get someone to 10,000?

With Mako and a male Bounty Hunter? Usually tongue-kissing.

Yep... if you're a dude bounty hunter you can "marry" her, and once you've done something like that, all her dialogue options are done, and you get an account wide bonus to presence

any other kinds of bonuses? I made a girl character and I usually don't do the romancy stuff in games anyway. I kept pumping up Mako's affection cuz I thought it might make her fight better or something.

 Necros wrote:
any other kinds of bonuses? I made a girl character and I usually don't do the romancy stuff in games anyway. I kept pumping up Mako's affection cuz I thought it might make her fight better or something.

Affection helps crew skills; I don't remember precisely how/if it influences combat stats.

 Necros wrote:
any other kinds of bonuses? I made a girl character and I usually don't do the romancy stuff in games anyway. I kept pumping up Mako's affection cuz I thought it might make her fight better or something.

Only thing that really affects the companion themselves, and is a good reason to get their affection high, is in Crafting. This is because the more a companion likes you the less time a task takes, and it also raises their chances of a critical success.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Affection helps crew skills; I don't remember precisely how/if it influences combat stats.

It might be similar to a small bump in Presence but the main thing is unlocking the companion story line, (optional) romance, and crafting.

At the higher level, that time-saving on Crew Skills matters, because those missions can take an hour-plus each otherwise, and most such Skills are not things that you can do yourself.

However, I will say that 400+ Slicing pays for itself very, very quickly. I dropped 50K on unlocking Expert Slicing, and had paid it off (six times over) within 4 hours on Rishi.

Oh, also, in certain Flashpoints, there will be opportunities for people with certain Crew Skills at or above certain ranks to do stuff that can assist your group, such as using Slicing to open certain doors or access elevators that can get your party around a sea of trash-mobs and advance more-quickly through the FP, or gain some sort of tactical advantage against certain mobs.

That sounds cool.

I have underworld trading almost to 400 now, but my other 2 re in the 200's. I've been sending galt and my droid out on missions while mako fights with me.

I haven't been able to do any flashpoints at all. I que up for them, play for like 4 hours straight, and don't get a single group. I'm always queued up for DPS cuz that's all I can do, so I guess just like every other game you can't get a group if you're not a tank or a healer.

For Flashpoints (and Operations) there are tons of DPS looking for group. Healers have a better time of it and Tanks are almost instant.

THIS IS IMPORTANT: If you are not a tank or healer DO NOT queue as one. The higher you go the more you need to be spec'd for it and people will absolutely notice. If you want to end up on a bunch of ignore lists and still never finish a Flashpoint then you can ignore this warning. Just the ability to heal does not make one a healer, nor does being about to use a shield make one a tank.

My tank is something around 50%+ mitigation, 47% shield rating, and 45% absorption but if I take the same character and spec to DPS with the same rank gear but put a shield on him it still doesn't even come close to that. On my DPS I just sucked it up and dealt with it for the most part. Are you not qeueuoing for Tactical Flash Points? Those shouldn't matter what your role is. They tend to be good xp but bad for creds crafting.

oh.. I dunno what kind of flashpoint, never looked I just click the queue button and set it to DPS. I don't ever want to be a tank or healer, cuz I don't want to get yelled at when I suck. Plus it's just more fun to shoot stuff.

Most of the FPs I skipped until I could solo them, or did with a bunch of high-level friends and just farmed Social Points from them. I'm not sure how it is on your server, but on Ebon Hawk, you can often find 1 or 2 60s to run you through the FPs for the Social Points. There won't be much kill XP or drops, but you'll get to see the story and get the payout at the end, plus rack up some Social Points.

 Psienesis wrote:
Most of the FPs I skipped until I could solo them, or did with a bunch of high-level friends and just farmed Social Points from them. I'm not sure how it is on your server, but on Ebon Hawk, you can often find 1 or 2 60s to run you through the FPs for the Social Points. There won't be much kill XP or drops, but you'll get to see the story and get the payout at the end, plus rack up some Social Points.

Tier 2 Social gets you access to the Slave Leia bikini!

I got up to level 35 or so with my bounty hunter and then kinda lost interest. The whole great hunt story was getting kinda boring. Now I’m running a jedi sage who’s turning to the dark side. But I picked that race that always has to wear glasses, so I’ll never get to see my evil red eyes :( Having a lot more fun with him though. One thing I was dissapointed with is the courisant missions seem to be the same as nar shadah.. I was hoping the 2 factions would have been a little more unique with the quests and stuff, but all they did was change the name of the planet.

That's kinda the point, though, because the war is supposed to be at a stalemate. You'll sometimes encounter references to the missions of the other side, and there's a couple of the various Companions who know Companions of other classes or of the other faction.

Can anyone help me with a technical issue? Since the latest patch (3.0.2b) I have been having a few problems. When the patch first came out I was able to log in but the game was EXTREMELY laggy, which at the time i dismissed as a temporary internet problem. Ever since then I have been unable to log on, the game just freezes on the loading screen after pressing 'play'. The bar stops loading at about 1/6, the wheel stops spinning, the load screen music does not cut in and the cursor apears.
I have no idea what is causing this, I have only hat SWTOR about two weeks now but never had any difficulties before the patch.

 vodo40k wrote:
Can anyone help me with a technical issue? Since the latest patch (3.0.2b) I have been having a few problems. When the patch first came out I was able to log in but the game was EXTREMELY laggy, which at the time i dismissed as a temporary internet problem. Ever since then I have been unable to log on, the game just freezes on the loading screen after pressing 'play'. The bar stops loading at about 1/6, the wheel stops spinning, the load screen music does not cut in and the cursor apears.
I have no idea what is causing this, I have only hat SWTOR about two weeks now but never had any difficulties before the patch.

I had some issues with this patch as well. I ended up uninstalling and reinstalling the game, but hopefully you wont have to...


Search through your SWTOR folders for something called "bitraider" and delete it, and it should, hopefully help you out significantly.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 vodo40k wrote:
Can anyone help me with a technical issue? Since the latest patch (3.0.2b) I have been having a few problems. When the patch first came out I was able to log in but the game was EXTREMELY laggy, which at the time i dismissed as a temporary internet problem. Ever since then I have been unable to log on, the game just freezes on the loading screen after pressing 'play'. The bar stops loading at about 1/6, the wheel stops spinning, the load screen music does not cut in and the cursor apears.
I have no idea what is causing this, I have only hat SWTOR about two weeks now but never had any difficulties before the patch.

I had some issues with this patch as well. I ended up uninstalling and reinstalling the game, but hopefully you wont have to...


Search through your SWTOR folders for something called "bitraider" and delete it, and it should, hopefully help you out significantly.

I will probably try that. What exactly does 'bitraider' do? I am unwilling to delete/edit files incase i make something else go wrong. I tried making annother character on annother server. Same thing happens, I couldnt get past about 20% on the load screen after character creation.

 vodo40k wrote:


I will probably try that. What exactly does 'bitraider' do? I am unwilling to delete/edit files incase i make something else go wrong. I tried making annother character on annother server. Same thing happens, I couldnt get past about 20% on the load screen after character creation.

Back when I had some serious lag issues, I asked other players, and near as anyone can tell, Bitraider simply exists to eat your bandwidth.... But apparently, by deleting it, you also "trick" the game files into thinking it needs to update when you start the game, and thus its easier to "fix" the files involved and should, hopefully fix your loading issues

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 vodo40k wrote:


I will probably try that. What exactly does 'bitraider' do? I am unwilling to delete/edit files incase i make something else go wrong. I tried making annother character on annother server. Same thing happens, I couldnt get past about 20% on the load screen after character creation.

Back when I had some serious lag issues, I asked other players, and near as anyone can tell, Bitraider simply exists to eat your bandwidth.... But apparently, by deleting it, you also "trick" the game files into thinking it needs to update when you start the game, and thus its easier to "fix" the files involved and should, hopefully fix your loading issues

I tried deleting bitraider, appart from taking longer to 'verify' on the startup it made no difference. Im getting quite annoyed now, ive done a fair bit of searching for a solution but nothing seems to work.

 vodo40k wrote:


I tried deleting bitraider, appart from taking longer to 'verify' on the startup it made no difference. Im getting quite annoyed now, ive done a fair bit of searching for a solution but nothing seems to work.

IF that didn't help, and you can't really load any ingame elements, I would try, as much as it sucks to delete the game, and reinstall it from scratch?

If it will patch, try using the Repair Tool in the patcher before pressing Play.

If that doesn't work, here's a few things that might help:

1) Delete the "Bitraider" folder and "brwqc_swtor" application from your SW:TOR folder.

2) Download the "LauncherRepairUtility" from this location: http://cdn-patch.swtor.com/patch/LauncherRepairUtilityP1.78.3a.exe

... save that file in your SW:TOR install directory for easiest use.

If you are curious, that file is mentioned in this support forum post, so you may verify its security if you like:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=419492

3) After deleting the Bitraider files and downloading that file, reboot your PC. Yes, this is required.

4) After reboot, run the Launcher Repair application. This may take awhile.

5) Play the game.

Incidentally, the above process is what I have to do every time I want to play the game, though I don't need to re-download the Repair app. For some reason, my game simply will not patch via the standard launcher. I've provided exceptions to my firewall, I've got everything in the folder whitelisted, etc. It just won't patch. I've been back and forth with EA/Bioware, and none of us can figure out what happened or why, but this works for me.

Also, as a way to avoid having to do this every time, avoid exiting the game. Just log out to character or server select and minimize the game. Unless the servers go down, you'll be able to just hop right back in the next time you want to play.

 Psienesis wrote:
If it will patch, try using the Repair Tool in the patcher before pressing Play.

If that doesn't work, here's a few things that might help:

1) Delete the "Bitraider" folder and "brwqc_swtor" application from your SW:TOR folder.

2) Download the "LauncherRepairUtility" from this location: http://cdn-patch.swtor.com/patch/LauncherRepairUtilityP1.78.3a.exe

... save that file in your SW:TOR install directory for easiest use.

If you are curious, that file is mentioned in this support forum post, so you may verify its security if you like:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=419492

3) After deleting the Bitraider files and downloading that file, reboot your PC. Yes, this is required.

4) After reboot, run the Launcher Repair application. This may take awhile.

5) Play the game.

Incidentally, the above process is what I have to do every time I want to play the game, though I don't need to re-download the Repair app. For some reason, my game simply will not patch via the standard launcher. I've provided exceptions to my firewall, I've got everything in the folder whitelisted, etc. It just won't patch. I've been back and forth with EA/Bioware, and none of us can figure out what happened or why, but this works for me.

Also, as a way to avoid having to do this every time, avoid exiting the game. Just log out to character or server select and minimize the game. Unless the servers go down, you'll be able to just hop right back in the next time you want to play.

Tried this, got as far as installing the launcher repair and rebooting. Now i cant find the launcher repair aplication on the file and the game simply wont even start now (i get a 'cant run this file on your pc message). Looks like ill have to uninstall the whole thing and try again. The only thing im worried about is my main character, is that stored on the HD with the other SWTOR files or is that data kept on an external location?

 vodo40k wrote:
The only thing im worried about is my main character, is that stored on the HD with the other SWTOR files or is that data kept on an external location?

A copy of all your characters are stored on the server side, so you dont have to worry about that. If you have set up your UI a particular way, that will be gone, but as far as gear and level, etc. that stuff will still be there.

More problems im afraid. I knew this game was nicknamed the ToRtanic for a reason, guess I underestimated how bad it would actualy be... I uninstalled and re-installed the game. Imediately after installation is complete the login box pops up with a red bar at the top which says the launcher is updating, though after leaving it for some time it never made any progress. I was forced to force close it as it just froze up when i clicked the exit box.
I rebooted my computer and tried to start it up again, this time after a small wait I am presented with a 'Certificate Authentification Failed' box. After clicking ok I get annother error message which says 'Failed to initialize web browser'. Also I usualy get a 'windows wants to make changes yes/no' box before the login screen, now i dont get one at all.

Ive tried un and re-installing three times now with the same result each time.

Wow, the machine spirit really hates you.... Have you tried calling up the support line?

Wow. There is definitely something larger than the game itself going on here.

Make sure Bitraider and SW:TOR's components are whitelisted through your firewall. Also, make sure you're running the game as an administrator for the PC (sometimes, for whatever reason, this is required).

Other than that? As Ensis said, hit up the support section of the SW: TOR official forums. But, yes, all your character and game data is stored server-side, so you won't lose anything like that.

ETA: For future reference and anyone else following the thread, the Launcher Repair Utility should remain in whatever folder you downloaded it to, or moved it to post-download. By default, it installs its package into its current folder, which is why I recommend downloading it to your SW:TOR directory, it makes it easy to just launch it and click Next until it does its thing.

Edit #Whatever: This link takes you to the SW:TOR support forums, and provides assistance with the most-common issues:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=419492

Truly I must have offended the machine spirit. After several more failed un and re-installings I wanted to see if my SWTOR being installed into my external F drive was the main problem. As I didnt have enough space on my main HD i was forced to transfer a few files over to my external drive and delete them from my main HD. For some reason even though the files had been deleted from my main HD they did not show up in the recycle bin and I did not get any free memory space. After getting angry, giving up on that approach and trying to transfer my files back I discover that my extrenal F drive has become EXTREMELY slow, to the point that even trying to look at any files crashes windows explorer and lags the entire computer horribly. My F drive is being recognised but does not display the ammount of memory used for some reason. Truly im at the point of lighting incence and praying to the machine god for salvation.

 vodo40k wrote:
Truly I must have offended the machine spirit. After several more failed un and re-installings I wanted to see if my SWTOR being installed into my external F drive was the main problem. As I didnt have enough space on my main HD i was forced to transfer a few files over to my external drive and delete them from my main HD. For some reason even though the files had been deleted from my main HD they did not show up in the recycle bin and I did not get any free memory space. After getting angry, giving up on that approach and trying to transfer my files back I discover that my extrenal F drive has become EXTREMELY slow, to the point that even trying to look at any files crashes windows explorer and lags the entire computer horribly. My F drive is being recognised but does not display the ammount of memory used for some reason. Truly im at the point of lighting incence and praying to the machine god for salvation.

Maybe you have a virus? Or some other kind of malware that is at the root cause of this issue?

Well, if you're on windows, and the drive is freezing up that badly, I would seriously try defragging it to see if there's ANY improvement.

I personally have noticed that a drive within a windows system has its performance greatly hindered if it is more than 50% full.

Looks like something else is going wrong here. I was playing some XCOM while i was trying to figure out what to do, when I quit the game I was confronted with a completely white screen. No problem probably just a graphical glitch, so I reboot and NOPE still a completely white screen. Seems like the computer otherwise is working ok, for some reason it just feels like all graphical data is for some reason being interpreted as 'white'. Absolutely have no idea what is going on here, had to go back to my ancient laptop to loo for more answers, none of which seem very informative.

 vodo40k wrote:
Looks like something else is going wrong here. I was playing some XCOM while i was trying to figure out what to do, when I quit the game I was confronted with a completely white screen. No problem probably just a graphical glitch, so I reboot and NOPE still a completely white screen. Seems like the computer otherwise is working ok, for some reason it just feels like all graphical data is for some reason being interpreted as 'white'. Absolutely have no idea what is going on here, had to go back to my ancient laptop to loo for more answers, none of which seem very informative.

Have you completely reset the power? I mean, unplug the whole system for a minute or more? It sounds like your system is just wanting to give out, how old is it?

Anyone doing the Gree Event? HM Xeno was surprisingly easy, but pulling good numbers on it has been difficult for me. I've done it twice so far. Also up to 7 60s, just have the Inquisitor quest line to complete.

I only have 1 60, but almost never get on that character, due to the guild I'm in is on the other faction, and theres actually people on all the time.

I do wish that the Bounty Event hadn't been so short

I'm not doing the Gree event, but then I am Legendary with the Gree and they love me.

I skipped the Gree event, I was having too much fun in GSF.

So SWTOR is offering purple/black weapon crystals to all subscribers at the end of March, it seems. I would be really excited, if it wasn't for the fact that my characters already have weapon crystals that fit their style/personality. Oh well, maybe they will forget to make them bind on pickup and I'll be able to sell them to the F2P crowd...

I haven't played this game since 4th quarter 2013.

I had enough since the servers were ghost towns and recruiting people for raids was more difficult than any other MMO I have ever played.

Getting people on any VoIP program was like pulling teeth.

I had a 55 Merc, 53 Op, and a 50 Sorc.

Is the new expansion any good?

I would like to chime in and ask this: is the game worth playing if you don't have a subscription? My issue is that I have varying amounts of time available to play in a given month and a subscription would be a waste some months.

 Havok210 wrote:
I would like to chime in and ask this: is the game worth playing if you don't have a subscription? My issue is that I have varying amounts of time available to play in a given month and a subscription would be a waste some months.

I think it largely depends on how you play and how much you play.... at the very least you'll want to get "preferred status" so that you can wear basically all gear (pure f2p players cannot wear Artifact level gear). IIRC, some things like "flash points", space missions and the like are limited for f2p players, in that you're only allowed to do X amount per day/week.

 Havok210 wrote:
I would like to chime in and ask this: is the game worth playing if you don't have a subscription? My issue is that I have varying amounts of time available to play in a given month and a subscription would be a waste some months.

You can sub once then after your sub runs out you will have preferred status which allows you to use oranges and blue mods which is all you need to lvl.

You gain more exp when subbed as well, so to lvl up in the ranges for a given planet if your unsubbed you will likely be doing almost every single quest on that planet to lvl up unless you do a lot of warzones or flashpoints which you have a limit on how many you can do when your unsubbed.

You can also level via Galactic Starfighter (GSF), which is the space-based PVP game within SWTOR. Unlike regular Warzones, you are not limited to the number of these you can run in a day, but the amount of Requisition (points spent to upgrade and purchase ships) is not as high as it is for subscribers.

However, if all you want to do is level and make money? GSF is the way to go.

Semi-necroing, but since there was a thread already, didn't seem like another was needed.

New expansion pack announced for Star Wars: The Old Republic! "Knights of the Fallen Empire" is to be available to subscribers in October 2015.

Cinematic trailer!

www.swtor.com/Fallen-Empire

16 Chapters total, with the first 9 available at launch, according to reports. New Companion(s), new weapons and attire, a new player-driven faction (rumors abound on this), new planets, new locations, new enemies.

Is it okay if I necro a thread that I started?

Anyone still playing? I'm on Harbinger still, mostly Empire. Working on getting all 8 primary classes to 65 currently.

I'm tentatively still playing but on BC. Without new ops content though there's not much to do. The storyline was laughably easy. Like a movie that made me push buttons occasionally.

I started playing again recently; it does seem much easier than I remember. But I never finished the Agent storyline so I'll do that, and I'm checking out the Hutt Cartel, Revan, and new Fallen Empire expansion on my lightside Sith Juggernaut.

 Kojiro wrote:
Without new ops content though there's not much to do.

Have you finished all the HM and Nightmare versions? They are quite a bit different in their complexity; Story Mode versions of Ops are really easy.

 Kojiro wrote:
The storyline was laughably easy. Like a movie that made me push buttons occasionally.

Well it isn't designed to be hard, just interesting. If you want a challenge you have to do the above.

 Ahtman wrote:
Have you finished all the HM and Nightmare versions? They are quite a bit different in their complexity; Story Mode versions of Ops are really easy.

With the exception of HM Revan, yes. Which I'm still keen for but my team disbanded and finding competent replacements (to match my Australian timezone) is difficult. Also HM Revan is a pain in the ass. Our first pull we tried him without reading a guide or anything and discovered he instant kills the tank if you approach him from the wrong angle. Hilarious but short lived.

 Ahtman wrote:
Well it isn't designed to be hard, just interesting. If you want a challenge you have to do the above.

I've done the above. We used to do NiM DF/DP at level in under 2 hours. But that's the problem. If you started your new story in full 198 optimized gear (like I did) the story was so easy I'd prefer it just be a movie. Do you get my meaning? Useless retrieval quests and fights that require a single TK wave to end are just pointless. Yeah the 30 seconds of story is interesting but it's tarnished by the fact it takes me 5 minutes of travel and mechanical, non challenging fighting to get it.

Well if you have all that done then yeah, there isn't much left to do. I can understand as I have done most of the HM(s) but if it weren't for the friends playing I probably would have stopped from boredom.

We just lost an excellent player the other day. And another good one. One went back to WoW and the other just got bored. Every person we lose gets us closer to that tipping point of just walking away.

The way they're simplifying stuff annoys me as well. They need to go back to the Dread style of ops and yes, include Nightmare mode. When ToS came out we walked through it with only a few wipes. Ravagers was the same. It became such a joke to us we'd challenge ourselves when we didn't have enough people on.

One tank, one healer and four DPS. Smashing out ToS because we can. So when an expansion comes around and buffs us to stupid levels but adds no challenges? I get bored real fast.

Well I am just starting and enjoying the story so far. I want to do all the empire stories. However it is really easy.

We have just been grinding away at achievements lately, waiting for the rest of newest story to come out. Moved all my Republic and Empire onto one server to take advantage of joint stronghold access and legacy perks.

Anyone still playing? I'm getting back into it. Mainly just to PvP as Anni Marauder/Watchmen Sentinel. I have several other classes geared out in 204/208 PvP gear, but they don't hold my interest nearly as much. I still need to level my 26 Sniper up to complete the Agent quest line properly, but I'd rather wait for another 12x boost to do that...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Currently have a 65 Marauder, Sentinel, Sorcerer, Powertech, Guardian, and I think every other class at 60, but I can't be buggered to play anything outside of my Marauder and occasionally the Guardian.

I am. With the raising of everything to 65 and making NiM content viable again we're now redoing the ops in order. Just got EC done in NiM. Missed the speed run by 12 minutes.

 Kojiro wrote:
I am. With the raising of everything to 65 and making NiM content viable again we're now redoing the ops in order. Just got EC done in NiM. Missed the speed run by 12 minutes.

What server do you play on? I get too much latency for most NiM. I've only done a few HMs I think. My gear and DPS are too mediocre. I think I was topping out 6300-6400 on my Marauder and Sentinel.

I'm on Beregen Colony, in the Paragons guild.

Is that 6,400 on the dummy or in a fight? Either way it's very respectable. Certainly beyond my ability, but I'm a healer/tank primarily.

Ah, I'm on Harbinger. I can't find a lot of my old logs but I think my high on a 1.5mil dummy was 6.5k and in a fight a low 6k. I've done something like 7.2k on a 500k dummy which was good for top 50 worldwide, but that's not an oft used metric. I'm sure I'd break 7k with min maxed gear, but I don't think I have a single 224 piece left.

Contemplating buying an EV and KP HM run once they're back on as priority targets, but that'll drain literally all of my credits to do so...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really, REALLY hate the fact that the only WZ that pops now is the newest one. I need some diversity in my life.

Harby is a whole other beast to BC. It's my understanding it's much easier to find runs there.

Are they selling runs over there? What's the cost for one of those? We six manned KP HM the other day to stress test a new prog member so we could probably do that sort of thing. I'm personally keen to break the 100 million mark.

Oh and I feel you with the new warzone. I loathe it. I so dearly wish I could just do 4v4 all day.

KP and EV SM go for 5 mil, HM for 10 mil, and priority would be 20 mil. Other ops vary more in pricing based on relative difficulty and the guild offering it. I have 3 full sets of tier that I all purchased from doing runs. I can't be fethed to grind out all that getting 0-1 item per run :-/.

You're kidding me? Our group regularly does those and just hands down 224s to whoever filled the gaps. We'll even farm NiM EC Drouks for the left side stuff.

That's crazy. We should go make some money!

Nope. I'm serious. Well, some guilds don't sell Priority Runs, but one in the past did.

I've purchased about 40 (maybe 50) of the latest 3 packs via credits and for the life of many can't get anything other than Gold Mounts. I want a damn Arbiter's lightsaber damn it...

If you were on BC I could help you out. My partner got lucky with a GTN sale and made a little over a billion credits. We've opened like 16 packs.

Whelp, I'm currently guildless and have at least one free xfer available...

Edit: Well, today I discovered that they finally updated the damage medals and I got one for breaking 1.5 mil. Wish I got a medal for 25 KBs though...