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Post by: NuclearMessiah
For all the stuff we would rather you not derail the News and Rumor thread with ;P
Updated with N3 pdf link:
http://www.infinitythegame.com/archivo/[ENG]_Rules.pdf
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Post by: aldo
Killy stuff, AVA 2 and not too expensive, I like it
Yan Huo, Invincibles Fire Support Heavy Regiment
MOV4-2, CC15, BS14, PH13, WIP13, ARM5, BTS3, W2, S5, AVA2
53/2 MULTI HMG, Pistol, Knife
54/2 HMC, Pistol, Knife
52/2 2-Missile Launchers, Pistol Knife
53/2 LT, MULTI HMG, Pistol, Knife
54/2 LT, HMC, Pistol, Knife
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
So my first thoughts.
Not a huge discount on the Vanguards, the new Unidrons are priced very similar to the Vanguards and the Preta lost mines. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also standard sepsitors can only be used twice now. Avatar still gets an unlimited plus version. Automatically Appended Next Post: And for those that care the Exrah fluff is page 133
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Vanguard didn't need a huge discount, just a discount. Their main issue was that taking a bunch of them added up at their old cost. Most folks taking three of 'em were spending a lot of extra points to get those orders. Those extra points meant buying specialists and weaponry was harder for CA. This was the true bad bit.
At 14 points, they are actually quite good and right in line with the more elite line troops of other factions. The Morat rule was improved heavily and they were given some very nice new options that will work well in links (that K1 sniper is dead cheap and will be a nasty surprise against TAGs).
For a unit that you don't have to jump through any hoops to field (like the Unidron), they make for a good basic line trooper. At the very least, I can see folks taking them again to fill a list out, especially if they aren't springing for a hacker to take batroids.
I love the Yan Huo and really wasn't expecting it to be that good. It seems like it is purpose built to be a "Timmy" (to use Magic the Gathering parlance). That is, I figured it would be big, imposing, but ultimately inefficient.
But that isn't what we got. The Yan Huo is uncharacteristically specialized for a Yu Jing unit. It is cheap for a specialty-HI (in a faction used to paying 60+ points for their good HI) with the lightest one coming in at 52 points and the priciest being only 54 (on par with the Su-Jian which is another uncharacteristically specialized Yu Jing HI).
It is equipped with the best weapons in the game in terms of fire volume but it doesn't give up much in terms of ARO punch with any of them. So it is good offensively and defensively. It may be slow, but considering what it is packing, it could have been a lot worse (many were expecting it to be a move-or-shoot type deal). It has enough armour that getting in to cover makes it hard to shift back out again. And it comes with a BS of 14 to boot, making it one of the best shooters in the faction.
And the best part? Heavy weapon LT options for a unit meant to serve on the firing line. This may well be one of our best "pricey" LT options yet. Not an assault unit like the Zuyong HMG LT, but something that can sit back in a good position and support our forward forces.
And of course, since it is basically just a barebones gun attached to a pair of legs, it can do things a TAG can't. It can dodge effectively, it can go prone(!), and it is small enough (S5, but still) that it can make good use of cover. Oh, and it can't be possessed at all, which is rare on units packing the HMC or MULTI HMG.
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Post by: -Loki-
I'm wondering if the Maghariba Guard preview profile is missing options. The new concept art most definitely had an explosive projectile launcher of some kind, whether they kept the HGL or decided to change it, but the new profiles all say HMG/HFT or HMG/2 Heavy pistols. Govads are going to be an interesting unit in competition with Muyibs. About the same price bracket, lose Dogged, but gain MSV L1. Since they were mentioned to be a Link option for Bahram, I'm assuming AVA 3 is the vanilla AVA. Also different options in the link - a hacker, missile launcher, sniper and HMG compared to a Spitfire, HRL, Panzerfaust and a Smoke LGL. Definitely going to have some fun with these guys. Kasym Beg seems good. Interesting that you can pay 10 more points to take him as Regular instead of Irregular and also gain an additional SWC. Having Kinematica L2 and PH14 will definitely make him fast, moving about in the reactive turn more. The fact he has a Panzerfaust and is on a bike is going to make him very useful against lists with TAGs. Doctor Plus is great - I hope more Haqqislam Doctors get it than just the Djanbazan. I remember Yasbir saying on the official boards people should 'have faith' that CB wouldn't boost Doctors across the board and then leave Haqqislam Doctors as merely more abundant, not better. Having wider access to Doctor Plus would certainly show that Haqqislam is still the Doctor faction.
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Post by: Sinful Hero
@NuclearMessiah
What is the exrah fluff, for those of us without a book yet?
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
Sinful Hero wrote:@NuclearMessiah
What is the exrah fluff, for those of us without a book yet?
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Post by: -Loki-
So they did a 'The Tyranids ate them'.
Disappointing.
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Post by: Alpharius
Caskudas now for rent?
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Post by: Knight
Overall. Disappointing. Crazy good profiles for USAriadna and Nomads.
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Post by: IJW
-Loki- wrote:I'm wondering if the Maghariba Guard preview profile is missing options. The new concept art most definitely had an explosive projectile launcher of some kind, whether they kept the HGL or decided to change it, but the new profiles all say HMG/HFT or HMG/2 Heavy pistols.
...
Doctor Plus is great - I hope more Haqqislam Doctors get it than just the Djanbazan. I remember Yasbir saying on the official boards people should 'have faith' that CB wouldn't boost Doctors across the board and then leave Haqqislam Doctors as merely more abundant, not better. Having wider access to Doctor Plus would certainly show that Haqqislam is still the Doctor faction.
My assumption is that that's either the Advanced ECM (chaff launchers etc.) or a canister flamethrower.
ALL Haqq Doctors get either Doctor Plus or Akbar Doctor. WIP18 Tuareg Doctor, anyone?
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Post by: GrenAcid
So exited for new Nomads, Jagulars looks like warband to me and thats cool. Oh and they have E/m ccw thats a nice suprise!
Bandits are great, Corr needed some other cammo markers so Intruder wont stay out that much, but i wonder what Scavenger rule do?
But bigges buff goes to Moiras....30 pts for basic girl with Multirifle? hell yes and thats just for starters, MSR goes from 44 to 34!! But than you see Hacker profile and its even more mind blowing... 14pts drop.
Nomads are happy for N3.
Ps. Sniper Intruder are in good spot too.
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Post by: Knight
Can someone get me rules for tinbot. Super tired right now...
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
Knight wrote:Can someone get me rules for tinbot. Super tired right now...
Pardon this is from my phone.
Tinbot
A tinbot is a semi autonomous piece of equipment that remains near is owner and provides him with some bonus or benefit. Pg 141.
I'll elaborate more when I am at my PC.
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Post by: Noir
NuclearMessiah wrote: Knight wrote:Can someone get me rules for tinbot. Super tired right now...
Pardon this is from my phone.
Tinbot
A tinbot is a semi autonomous piece of equipment that remains near is owner and provides him with some bonus or benefit. Pg 141.
I'll elaborate more when I am at my PC.
The effect is -6 to hacking attack. Well thats the info going around right now.
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Post by: -Loki-
IJW wrote: -Loki- wrote:I'm wondering if the Maghariba Guard preview profile is missing options. The new concept art most definitely had an explosive projectile launcher of some kind, whether they kept the HGL or decided to change it, but the new profiles all say HMG/HFT or HMG/2 Heavy pistols.
...
Doctor Plus is great - I hope more Haqqislam Doctors get it than just the Djanbazan. I remember Yasbir saying on the official boards people should 'have faith' that CB wouldn't boost Doctors across the board and then leave Haqqislam Doctors as merely more abundant, not better. Having wider access to Doctor Plus would certainly show that Haqqislam is still the Doctor faction.
My assumption is that that's either the Advanced ECM (chaff launchers etc.) or a canister flamethrower.
ALL Haqq Doctors get either Doctor Plus or Akbar Doctor. WIP18 Tuareg Doctor, anyone?
I don't think I'll miss the HGL. It's one of those profiles I found myself reluctant to use because of how good it was if someone wasn't prepared for it.
Good to know about Haqq Doctors. They really are one of my favorite aspects of the faction.
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Post by: Daba
Apart from the Eagle agent and Yan Huo, did Yu Jing get any other new units?
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Post by: -Loki-
Don't forget there's going to be stuff that's already out that's probably not going to make it into the rulebook. I'b be surprised to see the ZuYong in there, as they're new line troopers for a new sectorial that we won't see until Acheron Falls.
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Post by: Smacks
I'm still waiting on my book. What did the drop bear turn out to be?
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
Smacks wrote:I'm still waiting on my book. What did the drop bear turn out to be?
Pretty much a mine you can throw, doesnt require a target, but wont detonate on the turn you throw. You can chose to deploy them in the normal mine manner.
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Post by: Noir
NuclearMessiah wrote: Smacks wrote:I'm still waiting on my book. What did the drop bear turn out to be?
Pretty much a mine you can throw, doesnt require a target, but wont detonate on the Order you throw. You can chose to deploy them in the normal mine manner.
Fixed that for you ^^.
P.S. and more on the Tinbot it has 2 levels L1 is -3 hacking, L2 is -6 hacking. Plus, both levels if part of a Fireteam effects the whole Fireteam.
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
Noir wrote: NuclearMessiah wrote: Smacks wrote:I'm still waiting on my book. What did the drop bear turn out to be? Pretty much a mine you can throw, doesnt require a target, but wont detonate on the Order you throw. You can chose to deploy them in the normal mine manner. Fixed that for you ^^. P.S. and more on the Tinbot it has 2 levels L1 is -3 hacking, L2 is -6 hacking. Plus, both levels if part of a Fireteam effects the whole Fireteam.  Thanks I was just reciting that off memory lol Automatically Appended Next Post: -Loki- wrote:Don't forget there's going to be stuff that's already out that's probably not going to make it into the rulebook. I'b be surprised to see the ZuYong in there, as they're new line troopers for a new sectorial that we won't see until Acheron Falls. All the new units that have been produced since Paradiso have been added to the core book (Save Aleph and Tohaa), to include the ZuYong. Even the Yan Huo Invincible, Fire Support regiment is in the book As for the Zuyong, he has Kinematiak L1 and other then a few minor point reduction in load outs he is identical to his current stats in the Army Builder.
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Post by: ckig
Pumped for the new stuff. Bandits and Jaguars for Corregidor! New HI and imperial Agents for Yu Jing. Good time to be collecting Nomads and Yu Jing I think.
Any news on the Pano front? Haven't seen much for them besides the Bolts and the Hospitaller Knights.
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Post by: Knight
Swiss Guard, ORC, Father Knight, Aquila, Squalo, Nisse, Crock Man, Akal, Joan and Cutter were also re-typed. Joan of Arc MOV4-4, CC23, BS15, PH15, WIP15, ARM5, BTS6, W2, S2, AVA1 Special Skills: Inspiring Leadership, MA3, Religious Troop, V:NWI 49/0 Multi Rifle, Nanopulser, Pistol, AP CCW 50/0 Multi Rifle, Nanopulser, Pistol, DA CCW 49/+1 (LT) Multi Rifle, Nanopulser, Pistol, AP CCW 50/+1 (LT) Multi Rifle, Nanopulser, Pistol, DA CCW Military Order Father-Knights MOV4-4, CC23, BS14, PH14, WIP13, ARM5, BTS9, W2, S2, AVA2 Special skills: Assault, Kinematika L1, Religious Troop 44/0 Combi Rifle, Breaker Pistol, DA CCW 43/0 boarding shotgun, Breaker Pistol, DA CCW 49/1.5 Missile Launcher, Breaker Pistol, DA CCW 50/2 Spitfire, Breaker Pistol, DA CCW 50/.5 Hacker(Assault) Combi Rifle, D-Charges, Breaker Pistol, DA CCW 46/0 (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades, Breaker Pistol, DA CCW 44/0 (LT) Combi Rifle, Breaker Pistol, DA CCW 50/2 (LT) Spitfire, Breaker Pistol, DA CCW Orc Troops - now 4-4 MOV, other stats identical MULTI Rifle - 40|0 MULTI Rifle + Tinbot - 41|0.5 HMG - 44|2 Boarding Shotgun - 35|0 Combi Rifle - 36|0 Hacker (Combi) - 42|0.5 Lt (Multi Rifle) - 40|0 Lt (HMG) - 44|2 Akali Combi - 22|0 (1 pt reduction) Spitfire - 28|1.5 (4 pt reduction compared to former HMG profile) Hacker - 28|0.5 (7 pt reduction) BSG - 21|0 Croc Man - Lost Light Shotgun in all profiles, gained Multiterrain, all profiles still have Mines Combi - 30|0 (3pt reduction) MULTI Sniper - 38|1.5 (5pt reduction) Hacker - 36|0.5 (9pt reduction) FO - 32|0 (5pt reduction) Croc Man BSG - 29|0 Croc Man Lt (Combi) - 30|2 ORC, Akal and Crock have assault hacking device. Swiss Guard - Now 4-4 MOV (!), no more light shotguns on basic profiles, otherwise identical stats. MULTI - 64|0 (6pt reduction) HMG - 68|2 (1pt increase) Missile Launcher + Light Shotgun - 69|2 (5pt reduction, gained LSG) Swiss Guard Hacker (standard Hacking Device) - 70|0.5 (12pt reduction) Nisses HMG - 34|1.5 (2pt reduction) Nisses MULTI Sniper - 34|1.5 (7pt reduction) Nisses Hacker - 38|0.5 (5pt reduction) Nisses Combi+LSG - 30|0 Nisses Lieutenant - 30|1 Nisses Paramedic - 32|0 Squalo, PanOceanian Armored Cavalry Heaver Lancers MOV6-4, CC18, BS15, PH17, WIP12, ARM8, BTS6, STR3, S7, AVA2 Skills: G:Remote Presence Equipment: Advanced ECM 93/2 Multi HMG, AP Heavy Pistol 95/2.5 Multi HMG, HGL, AP Heavy Pistol 93/2 (LT) Multi HMG, AP Heavy Pistol Cutter lost heavy flame thrower, Aquila lost E/M LGL
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Post by: rahxephon
I hadnt looked into/seen any other factions things other than nomads but i did feel that many things just seemed to get better. Was wondering how other factions fared, but the swissile with a lsg is gross. No point trying to get into their bad missile ranges now.
Although in general its good, profiles that used to be too expensive seem to have come into line. (I don't understand the points drop on intruders though, and the msr one now feels a tad too cheap but I guess I'll see how it compares to everything else N3)
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Post by: ckig
So not many new units for Pano it seems. But some nice buffs. MO sectorial looks like it got a lot better.
Father knight's got a profile for everything. WIP13 BTS 9 hacker :O.
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Post by: Kanluwen
ckig wrote:So not many new units for Pano it seems. But some nice buffs. MO sectorial looks like it got a lot better.
Father knight's got a profile for everything. WIP13 BTS 9 hacker :O.
There was not much gapfilling necessary for PanO as it stands. And because they don't want to have more units which essentially will be "gapfilling" for existing Sectorials in "Acheron Falls"(like we saw with Campaign: Paradiso), a lot of the gapfilling was chosen for this book instead.
Acheron Falls is going to be seeing two new Sectorials for PanOceania(potentially three), so you'll be seeing a lot of new stuff then.
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Post by: Knight
ckig wrote:Father knight's got a profile for everything. WIP13 BTS 9 hacker :O.
Supposedly he'll also have Haris to link with other Knights, once CB gets around other rules. He really adds to Military Order force.
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
Knight wrote: ckig wrote:Father knight's got a profile for everything. WIP13 BTS 9 hacker :O.
Supposedly he'll also have Haris to link with other Knights, once CB gets around other rules. He really adds to Military Order force.
That would be nice, I like the MO, but it just feels to restrictive in list building to me. Automatically Appended Next Post: It is worth noting that the N3 rules are now up for download over on the official site.
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Post by: Henshini
Based on the new cost of some of these units, there is still no reason to take a sniper/multisniper over an HMG when the option is there, unless there's some crazy rule I'm missing where B2 AP is better than B4. The range bands are identical all the way out to 32". Can't remember the last time I actually engaged outside of that.
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Post by: str00dles1
Henshini wrote:Based on the new cost of some of these units, there is still no reason to take a sniper/multisniper over an HMG when the option is there, unless there's some crazy rule I'm missing where B2 AP is better than B4. The range bands are identical all the way out to 32". Can't remember the last time I actually engaged outside of that.
Correct me if im wrong but there are Plasma Snipers and K1 Snipers and not Plasma or K1 HMG. I will take K1 sniper over a HMG any day.
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Post by: aldo
Henshini wrote:Based on the new cost of some of these units, there is still no reason to take a sniper/multisniper over an HMG when the option is there, unless there's some crazy rule I'm missing where B2 AP is better than B4. The range bands are identical all the way out to 32". Can't remember the last time I actually engaged outside of that.
B2 DA?
and DA is scarier in ARO
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Post by: Knight
DA option can be used in active turn? That's neat.
I'd still go with more burst. Higher chance for winning face to face and landing a critical value.
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Post by: Henshini
str00dles1 wrote:Henshini wrote:Based on the new cost of some of these units, there is still no reason to take a sniper/multisniper over an HMG when the option is there, unless there's some crazy rule I'm missing where B2 AP is better than B4. The range bands are identical all the way out to 32". Can't remember the last time I actually engaged outside of that.
Correct me if im wrong but there are Plasma Snipers and K1 Snipers and not Plasma or K1 HMG. I will take K1 sniper over a HMG any day.
Even if I played combined and I was given that choice, I'm still not sure I would. 4 dice vs 2 is a pretty huge difference. That being said, the other dozen factions and sub factions who only have multi snipers or ap snipers or just straight up sniper rifles still have the same false choice. 0.5 extra SWC for half the shots? No thanks.
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Post by: Red Corsair
Pshhht, keep your firearms I am ready for an all bows all the time list
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Post by: Ronin_eX
MULTI snipers have some definite boons going for them now. The range difference between an HMG and sniper rifle is actually quite substantial now. The HMG's range cuts off long before the sniper rifle does and it is well in to its penalty ranges while the sniper rifle is still enjoying a +3 to hit. Next, it is the only MULTI weapon to keep B2 DA as an option (AP is still largely useless on it save for two TAGs). Their massive point reduction was the only other catalyst they needed to be worthwhile.
The sniper rifle's ability to outrange everything else mixed with camo often means folks can't fire back at you now (that extra -3 from surprise is huge in terms of long-range engagements; reaching -12 BS mod on a cheap camo'd sniper has never been easier).
Things like the MSR Intruder have a definite role to play now and the HMG is far less of an auto-include. The only profiles where it tends to matter now are the AD profiles and most of those lost their HMG making it a moot point (I think only the Hellcat kept the MSR/HMG, the Paras never had a MULTI and the basic SR was always pretty cheap compared to the HMG). On these guys, however, it is more a question of whether the excess range is needed rather than an inherent problem with the SR cost/ability.
On those few existing profiles that don't have some form of advanced deployment and have kept their MSR and HMG loadouts, I don't think there is much of an issue anymore. The two weapons now fill different niches and the MULTI part of the MSR is generally left in a more potent state than the lighter MULTI weapons.
If you find its range advantage is not worth it you may be playing with too much terrain, or at the very least, too little vertical terrain. Sniper rifles should occasionally get to be long-reaching weapons of terror and suppression, so remember to have a few long firing lanes where they can cause some havoc to the unweary. Tall positions tend to be good for this especially as part of a deployment zone perk for the chap that chooses to go second.
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Post by: Henshini
HMG and MSR range profiles are identical up to 32". I play on 4'x4' tables. Taking deployment zones into account, nearly all engagements happen below 32", with or without terrain. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or maybe all of my opponents aren't dumb enough to give me free shots.
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Post by: aldo
weird American hiper-dense "heroic" terrain is my guess
But I like my HMC BS14 HI, this guy looks like golden, and only 55/2
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Post by: Alpharius
aldo wrote:weird American hiper-dense "heroic" terrain is my guess
Let's NOT start that up again, please.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
4' X 4' has always been pretty small considering the ranges in Infinity. I always preferred 4' X 5' or 4' X 6' with deployment on the short edges.
And even CB recommend having something in the good deployment zone that allows you to reach out and touch the opposing deployment zone on turn 1. One of the big things folks forget when setting up Infinity terrain is to make sure deployment zones are actually unbalanced. Hell, it should be a thing in nearly every IGOUGO turn-sequence game (true alternating can usually get away with balanced sides). Popping a big sniper tower in their deployment zone or giving them a long firing lane is a good way of this even on a 4' X 4' table.
But if you ever get a chance do a 300 point game on a 4' X 6'. Even when well-covered in terrain, it leaves a lot of potential firing lanes of extreme range (especially once folks start going up to get a height advantage. Our last game of 2nd Edition actually had the x-visor on an MSR profile coming in to play and several firefights out past 50". And despite all of that, there were still numerous paths my Kuang Shi and Monks could take to cross the table. It is hard to go back down to smaller tables after these kinds of games.
Edit - That reminds me, I seem to recall it being the thing to do in 2nd Edition early on to play lengthways on a 5-6' long table (hell, I'm not near my books to check, but I even remember it being in the rulebook). I even remember folks kind of balking at Paradiso making most tables 4' X 4'. Did Paradiso and ITS move things back toward 4' X 4'? I can see how the tiny turn limit on ITS would basically require it, but smaller table definitely has an effect on medium-long range support weapons. In N3 that basically ensures the Spitfire ends up reigning in the HMG's place (especially with denser terrain in the mix). The HMG getting a better range from 24-32" probably isn't worth the greater penalty at shorter ranges in these cases. And if setup isn't giving a good field control boost to the deployment zone winner then I can see how folks would think even the N3 sniper rifle isn't worth the trouble.
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Post by: Vertrucio
The missions in the new rulebook are similar to ITS, but now don't require specialists. Instead, specialists just get bonuses when doing objectives.
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Post by: Tjomball
I might be an idiot here. But what happened to my beloved Sin Eater Observants and Reverend Custodiers? Couldn't see anything about them in the rules. ???
Am I now stuck with useless minis?
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Post by: hippiehobo
Wait did they take away the Fiday's BS? But that was the best bit
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Post by: -Loki-
They didn't. The Boarding Shotgun profile was added in Human Sphere, and no Human Sphere profiles were included. So while it makes sense to consolidate that profile into N3, they didn't and left it in Human Sphere to be updated via PDF/Army builder. Tjomball wrote:I might be an idiot here. But what happened to my beloved Sin Eater Observants and Reverend Custodiers? Couldn't see anything about them in the rules. ??? Am I now stuck with useless minis? They're Human Sphere units. They won't be in the book. CB have said for months the N3 rulebook will only include unit profiles from the core rulebook plus some extra new units. Existing units from other books will not be included.
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Post by: Kanluwen
So I got my N3 book today.
Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!
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Post by: Micky
-Loki- wrote:
They're Human Sphere units. They won't be in the book. CB have said for months the N3 rulebook will only include unit profiles from the core rulebook plus some extra new units. Existing units from other books will not be included.
Yeah, this is why all the units that should have Minelayer options don't appear to have them, because Minelayer was added in HS.
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Post by: Vertrucio
I wanna see if Chasseurs got a point increase, especially the minelayers.
Although I really need at least the stats for Briscards, since my opponent tends to field a lot of ninjas.
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Post by: chromedog
Tjomball wrote:I might be an idiot here. But what happened to my beloved Sin Eater Observants and Reverend Custodiers? Couldn't see anything about them in the rules. ???
Am I now stuck with useless minis?
Nope, they will be in the Human Sphere lists when they get done.
This book IS ONLY the replacement for the N2 book. Not N2+ HS+ CP. Those units will come when the Army builder 5 goes online, and with the pdfs after this.
I've got keisotsu butai for my JSA that have no N3 profile and they WERE in the N2 book. So you aren't alone in this.
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Post by: Noir
So did anyone see a weapon with Comms Equipment?
I post in the New thread but bitching up there, so I'll say again. Wow, CSU are ITS legal.
Then Inspiring Leadership will be great for Coordinated Order.
I likely what I see so far.
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
So although I have the book, I need to Dl the pdf onto my Note 3 and start setting up bookmarks on it for ease of use.
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Post by: IJW
Henshini wrote:HMG and MSR range profiles are identical up to 32". I play on 4'x4' tables. Taking deployment zones into account, nearly all engagements happen below 32", with or without terrain. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or maybe all of my opponents aren't dumb enough to give me free shots.
It's highly dependant on terrain. If you look at the terrain advice on p186 it looks like CB are expecting people to play on tables where there are at least some fire corridors all the way across the table and that sniper nests are an expected part of the game.
Also, if you take a look at the new Missile Launcher range bands it's got a +3 range of 24-40"...
Noir wrote:So did anyone see a weapon with Comms Equipment?
That's generally for equipment rather than guns, so stuff like Hacking Devices and Repeaters.
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Post by: ckig
NuclearMessiah wrote:So although I have the book, I need to Dl the pdf onto my Note 3 and start setting up bookmarks on it for ease of use.
I've added bookmarks and put it up on my dropbox here if you'd like:
Hope its ok with CB :x
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
ckig wrote: NuclearMessiah wrote:So although I have the book, I need to Dl the pdf onto my Note 3 and start setting up bookmarks on it for ease of use.
I've added bookmarks and put it up on my dropbox here if you'd like:
Hope its ok with CB :x
Cool, will check it out when I am not at work and can get into dropbox.
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Post by: GrenAcid
Kanluwen wrote:So I got my N3 book today.
Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!
Can you post some hints about orgins of those units? or some actual fluff as long as it ok to be here.
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
GrenAcid wrote: Kanluwen wrote:So I got my N3 book today.
Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!
Can you post some hints about orgins of those units? or some actual fluff as long as it ok to be here.
If no one beats me to it, I will when I get home in a few hours
Also thanks for joining us down here, I hate having to be an ogre and keep poking people to use this place.
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Post by: Kanluwen
GrenAcid wrote: Kanluwen wrote:So I got my N3 book today.
Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!
Can you post some hints about orgins of those units? or some actual fluff as long as it ok to be here.
Jaguars are gangers that get given two choices: Go for a long walk out an airlock without a suit or join the Jaguars. Those that join get broken down until they forget their ganger ties and start working together...because they hate their instructors.  They're a "light assault unit" that also serve a law enforcement role in Corregidor modules by keeping the gang wars from happening.
Bandits are codenames for Sub-Saharan Africa tribesmen and tribeswomen(initially, from the way it reads) that were chosen by the shaman amongst the refugees to serve as a kind of "guardian spirits" for the refugees against the gangs. Initially they were just killers, but then they were trained as thieves to take supplies necessary for the refugees to survive.
In steps The Mexican General who approaches the Shaman to have the Mbeli("Guardian Spirit") become part of the Black Hand. They now serve not just the refugees but all of the Nomad Nation.
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Post by: Noir
IJW wrote:Henshini wrote:HMG and MSR range profiles are identical up to 32". I play on 4'x4' tables. Taking deployment zones into account, nearly all engagements happen below 32", with or without terrain. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or maybe all of my opponents aren't dumb enough to give me free shots.
It's highly dependant on terrain. If you look at the terrain advice on p186 it looks like CB are expecting people to play on tables where there are at least some fire corridors all the way across the table and that sniper nests are an expected part of the game.
Also, if you take a look at the new Missile Launcher range bands it's got a +3 range of 24-40"...
Noir wrote:So did anyone see a weapon with Comms Equipment?
That's generally for equipment rather than guns, so stuff like Hacking Devices and Repeaters.
True,but it is listed under the Weapon Trait list and it not being on any weapon means no more E/M a units weapons then kill them.
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Post by: Kanluwen
The entire section starting on page 104 and ending on page 141 is called "Weaponry and Equipment" and the section you're referring to specifically states:
Most weapons and Equipment have special features, called Traits.
That's why Comms Equipment is listed where it is. Traits are at the start of the section.
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Post by: Guildsman
Kanluwen wrote: GrenAcid wrote: Kanluwen wrote:So I got my N3 book today.
Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!
Can you post some hints about orgins of those units? or some actual fluff as long as it ok to be here.
Jaguars are gangers that get given two choices: Go for a long walk out an airlock without a suit or join the Jaguars. Those that join get broken down until they forget their ganger ties and start working together...because they hate their instructors.  They're a "light assault unit" that also serve a law enforcement role in Corregidor modules by keeping the gang wars from happening.
Bandits are codenames for Sub-Saharan Africa tribesmen and tribeswomen(initially, from the way it reads) that were chosen by the shaman amongst the refugees to serve as a kind of "guardian spirits" for the refugees against the gangs. Initially they were just killers, but then they were trained as thieves to take supplies necessary for the refugees to survive.
In steps The Mexican General who approaches the Shaman to have the Mbeli("Guardian Spirit") become part of the Black Hand. They now serve not just the refugees but all of the Nomad Nation.
If the models are as cool as the rules and fluff are, these units are both going to be auto-buys for me! I wasn't expecting new units for Nomads; I assumed that they were mostly filled out.
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Post by: Enigma Crisis
Taking the two cover pictures on the Infinity website I was able to combine the two giving us the full picture which is awesome! It is a smaller resolution than the actual photos to be web friendly.
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Post by: Micky
Just noticed that the Charontids got changed to a 40mm base, as have the Yan Huo Invincibles.
I like this change - trying to fit the Charontid on a 25mm base was hell.
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Post by: AdeptSister
Did regular sniper weapons alway have shock ammo?
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Post by: Kanluwen
Guildsman wrote:
If the models are as cool as the rules and fluff are, these units are both going to be auto-buys for me! I wasn't expecting new units for Nomads; I assumed that they were mostly filled out.
To be fair, this wasn't really "new units for Nomads" in general.
It's a teaser of some of the new units for the Tunguska Sectorial, a few new gapfillers for Corregidor(along the lines of how Bolts got introduced for PanOceania), and a new possible linkable Reverend for Bakunin.
I also would not be surprised to see the Bandits make an appearance in the long-rumored Black Hand Sectorial.
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Post by: Noir
Kanluwen wrote:The entire section starting on page 104 and ending on page 141 is called "Weaponry and Equipment" and the section you're referring to specifically states:
Most weapons and Equipment have special features, called Traits.
That's why Comms Equipment is listed where it is. Traits are at the start of the section.
I don't really care were they put the damn rule. My point is, we lost the ability to shut down high-tech weapons. Then see how many burst they can dodge. Why not good it was a fun tactic.
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Post by: Micky
Noir wrote:
I don't really care were they put the damn rule. My point is, we lost the ability to shut down high-tech weapons. Then see how many burst they can dodge. Why not good it was a fun tactic.
I think E/M causing Isolated is a good compromise, being able to target a dangerous opponent and turn them Irregular is a neat trick. This is as well as its obvious benefit as an anti-hacker weapon - pretty much all the stuff EM disables is hacking or sensor related.
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Post by: -Loki-
So EM no longer disables armour and weapons? I can't say I'm surprised. Having seen a 5pt Ghazi step out and EMP a HI link and a TAG, and the consternation on my opponents face, I knew it was one of those things that was going to change. And it needed to, because being able to shut down a 100pt+ link or TAG with a single shot just seemed so absurd. edit - I just reread E/M and saw it still immobilises HI and TAGs. Guess that look of consternation will remain.
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Post by: Micky
-Loki- wrote:So EM no longer disables armour and weapons?
I can't say I'm surprised. Having seen a 5pt Ghazi step out and EMP a HI link and a TAG, and the consternation on my opponents face, I knew it was one of those things that was going to change. And it needed to, because being able to shut down a 100pt+ link or TAG with a single shot just seemed so absurd.
Oh, it still causes Imm-2 to TAGs/ HIs/ REMs. But that's just til the end of the next player turn, rather than for the rest of the game unless you have an engineer.
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Post by: IJW
Nope.
E/M causes IMM-2 state on HI, TAGs and Rems. The only way to leave IMM-2 state is a successful Engineer roll.
Noir - bear in mind that EM ammo works on Ariadnan troops so although it doesn't shut down Combi Rifles etc. it can mess up a far wider selection of targets.
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Post by: ckig
So Corregidor bandits or Zeroes guys? To my nooby eyes Zeroes look like a poor man's Bandit. Room for both in vanilla nomads?
Same with the Jaguars and Morlocks. I'm leaning towards Jaguars just because they're regular. What do you guys think?
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Post by: Knight
Both have their place. Unless of a change, Zeroes have access to minelayer, which is still a really neat ability. I lean towards Morlocks, simply because of a possibility to generate something really powerful on Metachemistry table, chain rifle with WIP 14 and are still rather criminally cheap. Otherwise Jaguars, dogged is a powerful ability.
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Post by: Kanluwen
ckig wrote:So Corregidor bandits or Zeroes guys? To my nooby eyes Zeroes look like a poor man's Bandit. Room for both in vanilla nomads?
Same with the Jaguars and Morlocks. I'm leaning towards Jaguars just because they're regular. What do you guys think?
The issue is that you're looking at it from the lens of vanilla.
In terms of CJC, Bandits are going to be a really unique and new thing for the force. Same with Jaguars.
Now I guess in vanilla there's room for both; but I don't enjoy vanilla so...
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Post by: GrenAcid
NuclearMessiah wrote: GrenAcid wrote: Kanluwen wrote:So I got my N3 book today.
Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!
Can you post some hints about orgins of those units? or some actual fluff as long as it ok to be here.
If no one beats me to it, I will when I get home in a few hours
Also thanks for joining us down here, I hate having to be an ogre and keep poking people to use this place.
Well I love talking about my fav game so Im happy to be here. Only one thing stops me from going all-nerdy, its my poor english thats saves you from waves of my rumbling.
Kanluwen wrote: GrenAcid wrote: Kanluwen wrote:So I got my N3 book today.
Haven't touched the rules; but I devoured the fluff book. Loving the background behind the new Jaguars and Bandits for Corregidor!
Can you post some hints about orgins of those units? or some actual fluff as long as it ok to be here.
Jaguars are gangers that get given two choices: Go for a long walk out an airlock without a suit or join the Jaguars. Those that join get broken down until they forget their ganger ties and start working together...because they hate their instructors.  They're a "light assault unit" that also serve a law enforcement role in Corregidor modules by keeping the gang wars from happening.
Bandits are codenames for Sub-Saharan Africa tribesmen and tribeswomen(initially, from the way it reads) that were chosen by the shaman amongst the refugees to serve as a kind of "guardian spirits" for the refugees against the gangs. Initially they were just killers, but then they were trained as thieves to take supplies necessary for the refugees to survive.
In steps The Mexican General who approaches the Shaman to have the Mbeli("Guardian Spirit") become part of the Black Hand. They now serve not just the refugees but all of the Nomad Nation.
Thx for fluff man, I love Nomad for it.
ckig wrote:So Corregidor bandits or Zeroes guys? To my nooby eyes Zeroes look like a poor man's Bandit. Room for both in vanilla nomads?
Same with the Jaguars and Morlocks. I'm leaning towards Jaguars just because they're regular. What do you guys think?
Bandits and Zeros are 2 difrent things, one is agresive infiltrator in Corregidor style(Irregular) other is cheap support with infiltration.(my only pain is no BTS on Zeros  )
As for Jaguars I think cost and MetaChem gives Morlocks edge(In one game I had 4 all with No Wound and it was very-very powerful) but then in sectorial those Jaguars will be welcome with open arms, those profiles maybe dosnt look as good as other new units but Im sure they will give us something fun to play with.
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Post by: Killionaire
Knocking out combi-rifles was always a little weird with E/M weapons in old infinity. Certainly cool, but a bit uneven. Why did the PanO combi-rifle shut down, but not the HMG or missile launcher or shotgun?
Now, you're killing that soldier's radio gear and sat-link, thus preventing him from doing anything but activating with an irregular order, and not being able to accept more instructions from command. Sensible enough. If an E/M grenade lands on a fireteam and they get hosed, then great. They're just ARO blips now pretty much and can't accomplish anything beyond that.
HI and TAGs still get shut down permanently (pending Engineer fix) as before, so that's OK too.
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Post by: -Loki-
Dropped into the store I pre orders N3 from, and they were boxing up pre orders for post! Finally grabbed it. Now to reeeeaaad. But I'm at work for another 5 hours
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Post by: Knight
Anyone had any games with the new system and profiles?
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Post by: GrenAcid
Not yet, N3 book just hit us. I think we start playing with new rules after new year.
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Post by: -Loki-
There's a couple of battle reports in the official board by an Australian named Asher using N3. One has a rather disturbing moment with a hacked Scarface gunning down his sister Cordelia.
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Post by: chromedog
Since most of my armies are sectorial, I'm waiting on the rest of the units in N3 format before I play. If I wanted half measures ( N3 rules, N2 profiles), I'd go back to playing 40k. I'm not playing any ITS tourneys for the next couple of years anyway, so I've got time. Since I also have to READ the rules before then as well (and my copy turns up probably tomorrow) that should give me several weeks worth of study. I've got 10 days in the wilderness "camping"* over xmas/new year as it is. "No nets, no wifi, no cell - not a single luxury. Like Robinson Crusoe, it's as primitive as can be."  . I've decided I'm going to print up acetate "holographic" silhouette markers for myself and a few local players. *Brother in law thinks it will make a "man out of me" - but didn't we invent flushing toilets, insect repellant and aircon so we didn't have to do that shiz?
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Post by: MajorStoffer
IJW wrote:Nope.
E/M causes IMM-2 state on HI, TAGs and Rems. The only way to leave IMM-2 state is a successful Engineer roll.
Noir - bear in mind that EM ammo works on Ariadnan troops so although it doesn't shut down Combi Rifles etc. it can mess up a far wider selection of targets.
My Merovingian army has no idea what you're talking about. Heavy infantry? What, you mean those guys with one additional armour who even with a 10 point reduction are still mediocre?
Dear Moblots, you're bad and you should feel bad.
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Post by: IJW
That's... an odd view of the revised Moblot profiles.
Anyway, I'm not talking about Moblots I'm talking about everyone - being Isolated means that the trooper becomes Irregular, can't have Regular Orders spent on them and if they're the LT you'll be in Loss of Lieutenant in your turn. If it's someone in a link they drop out of the link.
That's all stuff that MRRF is going to struggle with as much as everyone else.
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Post by: MajorStoffer
IJW wrote:That's... an odd view of the revised Moblot profiles.
Anyway, I'm not talking about Moblots I'm talking about everyone - being Isolated means that the trooper becomes Irregular, can't have Regular Orders spent on them and if they're the LT you'll be in Loss of Lieutenant in your turn. If it's someone in a link they drop out of the link.
That's all stuff that MRRF is going to struggle with as much as everyone else.
I just find Moblots boring; they really don't bring anything other than, now, an alright priced AP rifle or a more resilient Engineer profile than the otherwise lackluster Dozers. They aren't an awful choice now, just very 1-dimensional. Zouaves have mechanized deployment, Loup-Garou are all sorts of awesome, Briscards offer medium-long range strength with the now even-better MSV1, I just still don't feel any desire to swap anything I have out for Moblots.
Especially as I don't care for the models (but they're a bit long in the tooth).
And yeah, E/M still poses some threat to Ariadna, and will no doubt change some of my targeting priority (as do the various passive/non-hostile hacking programs), but they still aren't the same kind of threat they are to PanO or those other fancy gits with their fancy shiny toys.
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Post by: Barzam
So, for those of you with both, what kind of differences are there between N3 and Ice Storm's Quick Start rules?
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Post by: Chillreaper
The quick start rules in N3 seem to be the same as the mission 1 rules from O:I. Even to the point of using a three troops per side setup.
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Post by: Noir
Barzam wrote:So, for those of you with both, what kind of differences are there between N3 and Ice Storm's Quick Start rules?
They added the rest of the rules. No really thats about it.
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Post by: -Loki-
Had a good read of the Haqqislam fluff last night. I really like the Govads background. And the art lacked a visor! Maybe CB have relented and won't put the visor on the Govad models afterall. They look so great without the standard yellow visor, and that comes from someone who likes the standard yellow visor.
I liked the little art piece that had a junkyard with the old Maghariba in it. That and the fluff for the new 'Scorpion' model Maghariba were great.
Looking through the profiles, and I can see a place for the Govads definitely, both in vanilla (a cheaper MSV compared to the Djanbazan) and Bahram (actually having an MSV atall). I actually do like the new Khawarij profiles, and I'll be happy to give them a try. They still look a touch expensive, especially compared to the Kotail, but I personally think their true value is going to come in the Caliphate list as a super jumping link.
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Post by: Barzam
I got my book today. Gave it a flip through. I like the new art, though I'm not digging the Jaguar's design too much. Bare arms and no helmet? Meh. Hopefully the Bandits have a more "proper" Corregidor look to them (vacuum suits with helmets!)
I noticed that Govad art. She didn't look like she matched up with the lineart all that much, either. I'm very curious to see their figures though. I also noticed new art for the Ragik, sporting a Spitfire and the Rodok had some new artwork, too.
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Post by: Daba
Has any 'new' female power armour been spotted?
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Post by: Kanluwen
In what context? Artwork, models, what?
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Post by: GrenAcid
All!  I wish for some big piece with Riot girls or Moiras but it has to be in combat art, pinups are cool but only as aperitif.
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Post by: Tjomball
No mention of Riot Grrls in the N3 book as far as I can recall. Automatically Appended Next Post: No mention of Riot Grrls in the N3 book as far as I can recall.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Because they're Campaign: Paradiso units.
If it's in Paradiso or Human Sphere; it ain't in N3's book. It's coming later as a free PDF.
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Post by: -Loki-
I finally put the HI bounty hunter together and holy gak he's big. A good head taller than a Sekban, who is already a decently bulkily armoured MI.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Yep; but he's right in "scale" with the ORC and Mobile Brigada...
I couldn't get the stupid antennae for the back of his helmet to fit on right so I left them off and it looks just fine.
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Post by: Knight
I've been trying to make a PanO list for N3 game, however it might be due to the missing profiles but there just doesn't seem to be anything interesting there.
Particularly when I look at other factions. With Nomads I can create rather crazy, if not borderline off the top lists. Not to mention camouflage actually got a buff. Camouflage!
Haqqislam got some interesting new units and you can't go wrong with super-jump units for a really fun game, Govad, doctor plus across the profiles, solid deal all around.
Yu-Jing now has really cool heavy infantry and the new agents look they'll be interesting to play. If you manage to get into CC you'll have a good advantage.
Overall PanO... I guess I can move and shot?
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Post by: -Loki-
Isn't that the point of PanO though? They don't have many of the tricks, but they can sure shoot you dead.
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Post by: Knight
Shooting until they're removed from the table can be applied to any faction. When it's your turn in Infinity, you really want to take full advantage of it.
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Post by: GrenAcid
Knight wrote:I've been trying to make a PanO list for N3 game, however it might be due to the missing profiles but there just doesn't seem to be anything interesting there.
Particularly when I look at other factions. With Nomads I can create rather crazy, if not borderline off the top lists. Not to mention camouflage actually got a buff. Camouflage!
Haqqislam got some interesting new units and you can't go wrong with super-jump units for a really fun game, Govad, doctor plus across the profiles, solid deal all around.
Yu-Jing now has really cool heavy infantry and the new agents look they'll be interesting to play. If you manage to get into CC you'll have a good advantage.
Overall PanO... I guess I can move and shot?
For me Pan-O was this simple faction, begginer-friendly and easy to get. But I dont think they have less fun units, bunch of Tos, rather nasty HI and solid MI. Thay never had to be sneaky or complicated...they shoot.
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Post by: Knight
Infinity system rewards being sneaky and flanking. Especially, once the players learn to stack negative modifiers and the value of positioning. I've long abandoned any thought to directly assault at my opponent, not with that board denial and camouflage they typically include.
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Post by: Barzam
So, looked through the book a bit more. Did the original rulebook mention Equinox so much? It seems like there's a fair bit of references to them in the Nomad and Haqqislam sections. Think we might see some actual figures for them someday?
Seems like there's still room for the Exrah Concordat to show up. The Concordat was destroyed by the EI, but there's mention of units surviving as pirates harassing the Commissariat. I'm hoping this means that when they get to updating Paradiso and Human Sphere, they put them back in as Mercs accessible to Tohaa and CA.
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Post by: Michael Bishop
Knight wrote:Shooting until they're removed from the table can be applied to any faction. When it's your turn in Infinity, you really want to take full advantage of it.
They shootems the bestest thoug
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Post by: Killionaire
PanO is actually the most brute-force faction in the game. They apply modifiers harder, with the best shooting accuracy, best camo negation and best modifier generation (ie, TO), on specialized troops only carrying one high-powered weapon (they tend not to pack multiple secondaries). Their biggest and most powerful units (TAGs) are also the best.
This of course just lends them to getting outmaneuvered and trashed by sneaky tricks. Which is fine, as long as you remember that PanO is the most brute force faction in general.
If you're trying to make a PanO list, look at a number of new buffs. Joan of Arc is insane now with the changes to Inspiring Leadership, and Fusiliers are buffed due to supressing fire being changed. The next book's stuff is probably going to be really strong, like the Light TAGs...
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Post by: Knight
Sadly I'm waiting for a new Joan re sculpt. I did order the mobility form as I have a feeling they'll increase her movement or gave her other ability. I must say that the new armour is growing on me. No idea what I'll do with the list. I have Dragoe but I've never liked the TAG dynamic. I've run them and they've been easily taken out and likewise haven't really had any problems with eliminating the opponent's TAG. I guess I could go with Joan, Father Knight, twin Nisse, twin Pathfinder, Akal with Spitfire, spend the rest of the points on Fusiliers and Trauma Doc. I wish there'd be an alternative for an engineer.
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Post by: GrenAcid
Knight wrote:Sadly I'm waiting for a new Joan re sculpt. I did order the mobility form as I have a feeling they'll increase her movement or gave her other ability. I must say that the new armour is growing on me.
No idea what I'll do with the list. I have Dragoe but I've never liked the TAG dynamic. I've run them and they've been easily taken out and likewise haven't really had any problems with eliminating the opponent's TAG.
I guess I could go with Joan, Father Knight, twin Nisse, twin Pathfinder, Akal with Spitfire, spend the rest of the points on Fusiliers and Trauma Doc. I wish there'd be an alternative for an engineer.
Why no Croc hackers? we have new hacking.... its like drugs but better
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