120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge cost too much now in points now, not viable?

No it's still really good just that before people were using it as a AA anti everything platform.

It's absolutely fine now, just toned down enough that we'll hopefully stop seeing so many lazy spam lists of it and maybe get a few more lists with any ounce of personality whatsoever.

The only actual problem with these changes is they took away any reason to take Tesla for infantry.

Maybe the death toll for spam ability at the highest levels of competitive play, but certainly still viable. And I don't mean viable as in "you have a chance if you're playing dark angels". Sorry dark angels btw. I played Deathwing myself.

They're now appropriately costed instead of being patently undercosted (this goes for the night scythe as well). The codex has great internal balance and synergy. I think we're going to see a lot of variety in Necron lists and many of them will work well. I don't mean to sound naïve, but this might be actual progress by GW. Now if they could only fix Ctans....

It's fine as it is now.
Personally I'm not taking it, because I prefer a legion-styled army with some C'tan. The only vehicles I take are transports for my troops and triarch stalkers for judicator batalions.

 Byte wrote:
120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge to costs too much now in points now, not viable?

With the inability to hit flyers the same without tesla the night scythe almost completely wins as your choice of vehicle to field the Tesla Destructor. The only benifit that the AB beats the NS is that the AB can hold objectives and starts on the board. If your taking AB over NS then your doing it wrong.

If you want to build a flyer spam list now, I'd suggest the Doom formation instead. The formation benefit is pretty minimal, but the relative upgrade cost for the second gun has gone way down, and an S10 lance is ideal for heavy vehicle popping.

I didn't mention NSs, but OK.

 Byte wrote:
I didn't mention NSs, but OK.

Well, as an Annihilation Barge's entire purpose is to be a Tesla Destructor platform, the other two Tesla Destructor platforms (Three if you include Night Shroud, I guess) are relevant to a measure of it's viability.

changemod wrote:
If you want to build a flyer spam list now, I'd suggest the Doom formation instead. The formation benefit is pretty minimal, but the relative upgrade cost for the second gun has gone way down, and an S10 lance is ideal for heavy vehicle popping.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/634766.page
Agreed. But the thread is anni-barges.

 Byte wrote:
120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge cost too much now in points now, not viable?

A A-Barge is dead.

Just look at the lists that have been posted since the new codex dropped, there are no A-Barges in them.

The Old A-Barge was cheap, great while jinking, great for anti-air support.
The new A-Barge is none of those.

Is it still playable? Sure, but so were Flayed Ones last edition, and look at how much play they got.

 Tomb King wrote:

 Byte wrote:
120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge to costs too much now in points now, not viable?

With the inability to hit flyers the same without tesla the night scythe almost completely wins as your choice of vehicle to field the Tesla Destructor. The only benifit that the AB beats the NS is that the AB can hold objectives and starts on the board. If your taking AB over NS then your doing it wrong.

So Q.shielding brings nothing? Not that Im disagreeing with you. Its just seems your comparing apples and raw meat(both are food). I get they have the same weapon but overall they play COMPLETELY different rolls.


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 adamsouza wrote:

 Byte wrote:
120 points for what your get is actually still very good. I get the no additional hits on 6s after a jink, even so.

What say you? Anni-barge cost too much now in points now, not viable?

Just look at the lists that have been posted since the new codex dropped, there are no A-Barges in them.

Is it still playable? Sure, but so were Flayed Ones last edition, and look at how much play they got.

Ahhh, that doesn't say much. Most killy lists present themselves after big tourney play. With all the "what did he use threads?".

I understand your point, but I've played Dark Harvest FOs for sometime now. Again, doesn't mean much but wanted to throw that out there.

I think the bigger issue than any nerfs is the inability to really take them in the decurion. Sure you can take the annihilation matrix formation but due to the point cost taxes of the decurion it will not be a popular choice. As such, you will likely only see A-barges in CAD detachments which is less of an explanation of nerfs rather than choices of the decurion.

 adamsouza wrote:
Just look at the lists that have been posted since the new codex dropped, there are no A-Barges in them.

That is probably because we now have actual options and people want to try that out

I think they are still good.
Not 'try and take two CADs so you can field six of them'-good, but more a 'I have points left, let's take a Barge'-good.
And when I am building an AV13-army, I would still take one or two.
It's just not the auto-include it used to be.

 buddha wrote:
I think the bigger issue than any nerfs is the inability to really take them in the decurion. Sure you can take the annihilation matrix formation but due to the point cost taxes of the decurion it will not be a popular choice. As such, you will likely only see A-barges in CAD detachments which is less of an explanation of nerfs rather than choices of the decurion.

Excellent point Sir.

It lost Arc and snap-shotting tesla benefit (which let them Jink all the time). If they didn't, people would still field it at the actual price.

It's still a good unit, but with Heavy Destroyers on HS slot, new Doomsday Ark and Night Scythes more survivable... Oh, and the Obelisk packs more punch for less than 3 A-Barges. I'd say A-Barges will see much more field battles on casual lists than tourney ones.

The Old A-Barge was cheap, great while jinking, great for anti-air support.
The new A-Barge is none of those.

Other than already owning the model, and wanting to use it, why would you field an A-Barge now ?

The Tesla Nerf hit it's firepower and anti-air capability, while making it more expensive. I just don't see what role it fills, well enough, to justify including it an army list.

The Anni-Barge has taken several hits with this new Codex. The points increase and the nerf to Tesla* pretty much killed it as an effective AA platform (but hooray for Tomb Blades with N-Scopes on a Quad Gun!). You can't take it in the shiny new Decurion unless you really want the Doomsday Ark with it. It's still a decent unit to use, but it's no longer the auto-take it once was. And I think that's the problem: a "decent" unit often isn't good enough for those who care about competitive play. I would still toss one in when I play a CAD, maybe even both of the two I have, but it would be near the end of my list making and not near the beginning.

*I really wish they could have come up with an alternative version of Tesla rather than the lazy choice they made with it in the Codex. Tesla was only an "issue" because the Anni-Barge was cheap, can jink with a 4+ in 7th, and still put at least 3 S7 hits on anything it wanted to. It was the platform that was always the issue, never the weapon itself. It's not like anybody was ever afraid of Tesla Immortals and their extra hits.

*mistake

Not looking good for the AB. Very valid points here.

"Tesla does not apply if the unit jinked". There, fixed the vehicle problem without ruining it for troops.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The Anni-Barge has taken several hits with this new Codex. The points increase and the nerf to Tesla* pretty much killed it as an effective AA platform (but hooray for Tomb Blades with N-Scopes on a Quad Gun!). You can't take it in the shiny new Decurion unless you really want the Doomsday Ark with it. It's still a decent unit to use, but it's no longer the auto-take it once was. And I think that's the problem: a "decent" unit often isn't good enough for those who care about competitive play. I would still toss one in when I play a CAD, maybe even both of the two I have, but it would be near the end of my list making and not near the beginning.

*I really wish they could have come up with an alternative version of Tesla rather than the lazy choice they made with it in the Codex. Tesla was only an "issue" because the Anni-Barge was cheap, can jink with a 4+ in 7th, and still put at least 3 S7 hits on anything it wanted to. It was the platform that was always the issue, never the weapon itself. It's not like anybody was ever afraid of Tesla Immortals and their extra hits.

Apparently some people hated that about Immortals. A dude at LO complained at least once that the snap shots being effectively BS3 was too good.

Meh, there are people in this very forum that would hate on anything that Necrons could do better than a Space Marine.

Now the hate is just shifting from Tesla and annihialtion barges to Reanimation Protocols and Wraiths.

Anni barges are still really decent. The bigger issue is what now competes with them.

To me the doom scythe has been glossed over pretty heavily to date. For 30 pts on a NS (40 over a barge) you get a S10 ap1 lance blast that not only hits ground armour but combats flyers and can target FMCs with the death ray. I wouldn't be suprised if people start running these at least in pairs.

dominuschao wrote:
Anni barges are still really decent. The bigger issue is what now competes with them.

To me the doom scythe has been glossed over pretty heavily to date. For 30 pts on a NS (40 over a barge) you get a S10 ap1 lance blast that not only hits ground armour but combats flyers and can target FMCs with the death ray. I wouldn't be suprised if people start running these at least in pairs.

Agreed, I think a lot of folks are more in tune than you might think. Its just shiny codex syndrome right now and wraiths/destroyers are being the interwebs distraction. I'm confident the successful tourney builds have yet to be revealed.

The Doomscythe formation is sick. Heres a list I put together utilizing anni-barges in the heavy slots and the D.scythe formation. I'm still gonna run it(despite all the AB hate) just to see how it plays. I have all the models so no big deal.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/634766.page

Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Personally, I don't think it's worth taking. And if I do take it, I literally don't care if it dies. The fact that Tesla doesn't have anything special as far as a Heavy support option (S7 with mediocre range and no ap). Even before the nerf I never used more than 2 max, simply because I like other options better. Now that they not only nerfed Tesla, but made it more expensive, there's little reason to take it, besides maybe the Decurion formation.

You can spend 10 points more for a Night Scythe with more mobility, arguable more durable since it's a flyer, and same firepower, plus transport capacity. I'll be relying on my Doom Scythe and Doomsday Ark to do most of my heavy lifting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Exactly. Make it more expensive, OR nerf tesla. Doing both just kills any kind of attractiveness to the model.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Nooo. Just no. 120 points for an AV13 skimmer that can jink and fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets would still be too low.

Look at the Mortis Dread: 180+ points for an AV 13 walker with a 5++ that must remain stationary to gain skyfire. . . with S6 weaponry.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Nooo. Just no. 120 points for an AV13 skimmer that can jink and fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets would still be too low.

Look at the Mortis Dread: 180+ points for an AV 13 walker with a 5++ that must remain stationary to gain skyfire. . . with S6 weaponry.

But, as I said, just spend 10 points more for a Night Scythe. Problem solved. The reason the A-barge was used a lot for that purpose was because it sucked against most other ground targets. Sure, good number of shots, slow as a rock, no ap, ext. There's little reason to use one now.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Nooo. Just no. 120 points for an AV13 skimmer that can jink and fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets would still be too low.

Look at the Mortis Dread: 180+ points for an AV 13 walker with a 5++ that must remain stationary to gain skyfire. . . with S6 weaponry.

The AB is NOT a AV13 skimmer. It's one of the biggest misconceptions people have. It's AV 13 before the first penetrating shot - and on top of that, it's Open-Topped. And come on:

fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets

That's a lie and you know it.

 Sigvatr wrote:

fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets

That's a lie and you know it.

Wow, a little testy are we?

 Sigvatr wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

Nooo. Just no. 120 points for an AV13 skimmer that can jink and fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets would still be too low.

Look at the Mortis Dread: 180+ points for an AV 13 walker with a 5++ that must remain stationary to gain skyfire. . . with S6 weaponry.

The AB is NOT a AV13 skimmer. It's one of the biggest misconceptions people have. It's AV 13 before the first penetrating shot - and on top of that, it's Open-Topped. And come on:

fire just as effectively at ground targets and air targets

That's a lie and you know it.

It 's an AV 13 skimmer for the purposes of A LOT of weaponry in the current meta, especially in the age of HP stripping.

Okay so I overstated it's efficacy as an AA platform a *little* bit. I forget the mathhammer comparison people worked out, but wasn't it on par with TL BS3 shooting?

It's not really overcosted for what you get.

It puts out an average of 1.2 st7 hits a turn (not incl secondary gauss weapon) against flyers. Which is not bad, but not really good either at st7.
A mortis dread on the other hand for similar points cost puts out 3.6 st7 hits a turn against flyers.
The anni barge gets more hits against ground targets due to tesla.
The armour is comparable, av12 all the time vs av13 until first pen.
The anni barge gets more movement and jink (albeit both at reduced accuracy), and can hop over impassible terrain in the way.
Whilst the mortis gets a meagre close combat potential.
All in all I'd say they are pretty close.

Although you do have to bear in mind that many consider dreads as sub-optimal, whatever that means for the anni-barge in this comparison people can draw their own conclusions.

The annihilation barge is an excellent unit at 120 points. At 90 it was severely underpriced to the point it made all other heavy support choices a non option.

 schadenfreude wrote:
The annihilation barge is an excellent unit at 120 points.

What exactly is it excellent at ?

 adamsouza wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
The annihilation barge is an excellent unit at 120 points.

What exactly is it excellent at ?

It's still decent at anti-infantry duty? (though, Necrons aren't exactly lacking in that department at the moment. Plus, with the removal of Arc, it's not even quite that good at it...)

I'd rather throw in 10 more points and field 10 more warriors. They'll likely last longer, generate as many hits, and do better in assaults, and might even have Ob Sec.

 adamsouza wrote:
I'd rather throw in 10 more points and field 10 more warriors. They'll likely last longer, generate as many hits, and do better in assaults, and might even have Ob Sec.

Well, the Decurion makes warriors better. Outside the Decurion in a CAD, the A Barge might have a chance, but the Decurion makes footslogging crons solid.

 adamsouza wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
The annihilation barge is an excellent unit at 120 points.

What exactly is it excellent at ?

Killing light vehicles. War Walkes, Vypers, Raiders, Ravagers, Venoms, Sentinels, Rhinos, Razorbacks and to a certain extent Wave Serpents, Chimeras, Stalkers and Hunters.

People might still bring it, either in the Nexus Formation or in a CAD.

It's still pretty cheap - and you do ignore Crew Shaken with Living Metal automatically now, so you don't have to Jink?

Not as spammable as before, but it's still quite good for the price.

Its only a death toll for the auto take 3 in each army list.

Now they are still good, however they are not a mandatory selection anymore.

Okapi wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
The annihilation barge is an excellent unit at 120 points.

What exactly is it excellent at ?

Killing light vehicles. War Walkes, Vypers, Raiders, Ravagers, Venoms, Sentinels, Rhinos, Razorbacks and to a certain extent Wave Serpents, Chimeras, Stalkers and Hunters.

Its not excellent at any of those. At best it is okay at that. That being said just about every other non CC choice in the Necron book would be better at killing those then the Abarge.

Heck the Ghost Ark is probably better in every way that the Abarge is good while being cheaper and a transport and a repair barge and more durable.

Personally I won't include them out of principal. Had GW not heavy nerf hammered them I'd still use them. But all the changes smack of "thanks for buying those models now buy something new to replace those."

With the new cost, I don't see the point of the Annihilation Barge over the Nightscythe.

The 'scythe is a outstanding dedicated transport, so can be taken in the Decurion or elsewhere without using up a slot, and can put a lot of hits on both air and ground units.

Meanwhile, the Annihilation Barge is either a HS unit, or requires a pain-in-the-ass formation (if using Decurion). It has a secondary gun that will be snapshotting virtually all the time (since you can't move and fire both, and lack the range to just sit and pivot). And, unlike the Nightscythe, it can only put a lot of hits on ground units. Because, for some stupid reason, every non-aircraft in the 41st millennium is using WWII-era targetting computers.


Also, on the same subject, I feel that the Nightscythe is now the *only* tesla-vessel from the 5th edition book that's still worth using. With everything else, I don't see any reason at all why you wouldn't just use Gauss (or, in the case of the Barge, just drop it altogether).

The A-Barge does enormously more damage to high-T targets (5+) than the gauss flayer array does. The latter does more damage to low-T, poor-armor save infantry.

It's too expensive these days for it's range.

120 pts for a 24" gun is too much with it's nerfs. It is no longer good at shooting at flyers, you can no longer move more than 6" and fire effectively. That last point is huge, the A.Barge used to be able to re-position itself very quickly(12 inches) and still fire at 75% effectiveness. Now the Barge can only move 6" to shoot well and it only has a 24" gun leaving you with a small threat range.

It is still durable being AV13 but I think for the costs, you should just get a ghost ark; it's cheaper, it threatens all targets, it has the same threat range and it has utility for your army.

The biggest problem with the A.Barge and really the tesla destructor now is that they aren't good at AA and aren't a requirement for taking out high toughness enemies since the gauss buff makes our troops able to threaten high toughness creatures. The A.Barge just lost it's niches with other units being able to fill them.

The Night Scythe however is still very good as it is still a great transport and our best source of AA.

 vipoid wrote:
With the new cost, I don't see the point of the Annihilation Barge over the Nightscythe.

The 'scythe is a outstanding dedicated transport, so can be taken in the Decurion or elsewhere without using up a slot, and can put a lot of hits on both air and ground units.

Meanwhile, the Annihilation Barge is either a HS unit, or requires a pain-in-the-ass formation (if using Decurion). It has a secondary gun that will be snapshotting virtually all the time (since you can't move and fire both, and lack the range to just sit and pivot). And, unlike the Nightscythe, it can only put a lot of hits on ground units. Because, for some stupid reason, every non-aircraft in the 41st millennium is using WWII-era targetting computers.


Also, on the same subject, I feel that the Nightscythe is now the *only* tesla-vessel from the 5th edition book that's still worth using. With everything else, I don't see any reason at all why you wouldn't just use Gauss (or, in the case of the Barge, just drop it altogether).

Agreed on all points.

Alcibiades wrote:
The A-Barge does enormously more damage to high-T targets (5+) than the gauss flayer array does. The latter does more damage to low-T, poor-armor save infantry.

It really doesn't. It still averages less then 1.8ish wounds. The GA averages 1.2ish wounds. So not really significant.

Alcibiades wrote:
The A-Barge does enormously more damage to high-T targets (5+) than the gauss flayer array does. The latter does more damage to low-T, poor-armor save infantry.

Comparing the Shots Assuming 1 side of the ghost Ark shoots, so ignoring half the ghost arks potential shooting and ignoring it's AP5 which won't do much most times but could potentially be useful in other times the simple math is;

Shooting A.Barge does 5.22 Hits While Ghost Ark does 6.66 Hits

Against T5 A.Barge 4.35 Wounds, Ghost Ark 2.22 Wounds

Against T6 A.Barge 3.48 Wounds, Ghost Ark 1.11 Wounds

Against T7 A.Barge 2.61 Wounds, Ghost Ark 1.11 Wounds

Against T8 A.Barge 1.74 Wounds, Ghost Ark 1.11 Wounds

Against T9 A.Barge 0.87 Wounds, Ghost Ark 1.11 Wounds

So the A.Barge does out perform the Ghost Ark slightly against most High toughness creatures, however the Ghost Ark is cheaper, more durable, is a transport and can replace models while not taking up a FOC slot. Also if you are in a position to fire both sides of the ghost ark then the difference in performance is negligible.

Personally I would just field Ghost Arks over A.Barges the utility is worth more and they are less of a first blood risk.

The other aspect is that whilst the AB's damage output against high toughness targets is better than the Ghost Ark's, it's still not very impressive.

At best, you're doing a wound to a T6 Tyranid MC with a 3+ save. As soon as you start getting higher toughness, 2+ saves and/or FNP, it's just not worth the effort. And, the Wraith Knight, Dreadknight and Riptide (arguably the best MCs in the game at the moment) have at least one of those each. Well, at least it's good against Flyrants... oh, nevermind.

To put it another way, whilst it is better against those high-toughness targets, it's nowhere near good enough to be worth including for that role.

Punisher wrote:


The biggest problem with the A.Barge and really the tesla destructor now is that they aren't good at AA and aren't a requirement for taking out high toughness enemies since the gauss buff makes our troops able to threaten high toughness creatures. The A.Barge just lost it's niches with other units being able to fill them.

The Night Scythe however is still very good as it is still a great transport and our best source of AA.

Well, if we have an a-barge shooting at a carnifex, and a blob of 20 warriors shooting at one in RF range, the barge inflicts an average of 1.086 wounds and the warriors 1.481. But the warriors cost over twice as much. Due to the weirdness of the 40K wounding system, the warriors do more damage to a Talos though despite it having higher T.

Personally I'm going to use 2 in the Annihilation Nexus, because I love the idea of death machines floating slowly over the ruins, obliterating anything that dares raise its head.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally if I were GW I would have given Tesla Ignores Cover or something, maybe make it a small blast, to differentiate it positively more from Gauss. Now it's only really better if you are staying 12"-24" away from the target (which come to think of it is fine -- maybe you don't want to get close. That's far out of melta range, and out of RF range of almost everything.).

I'm going with two doom arks. If the Nexus gave something useful like tank hunter to the formation I'd be all aboard. As it stands its effect just kills your abarges more quickly. Focus AT on the doom ark and either you fix the doom ark and make the abrges AV11 and made of tin foil or you don't use the ability and just wasted points on the abarges.

You are sooo much better off with a judacator battalion with NS praetorians.

I see no ragequit issues with the Annihilation Barge costed at 120.
You're still getting a decent TL weapons platform with QS and the ability to Jink. (Wave Serpents deal with it just fine)
Also, an effective armor value of 13 still gives a lot of armies issues with scoring penetrating hits.

The sky is not falling.

 House Griffith wrote:
I see no ragequit issues with the Annihilation Barge costed at 120.
You're still getting a decent TL weapons platform with QS and the ability to Jink. (Wave Serpents deal with it just fine)
Also, an effective armor value of 13 still gives a lot of armies issues with scoring penetrating hits.

The sky is not falling.

Jinking now robs it off most of its fire power, making it an even less attractive option.

 House Griffith wrote:
I see no ragequit issues with the Annihilation Barge costed at 120.
You're still getting a decent TL weapons platform with QS and the ability to Jink. (Wave Serpents deal with it just fine)
Also, an effective armor value of 13 still gives a lot of armies issues with scoring penetrating hits.

The sky is not falling.

Sky may not be falling, but overall a good, borderline OP option became borderline useless. If the Abarge jinks it goes from the option of 4+ hits to guaranteed max of 4+ for ap-, which makes it kinda useless. The ability to jink and still be useful is what made it great, now kinda has no roll, their niche can easily be filled by multiple other options, such as ghost ark that is talked about above.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 House Griffith wrote:
I see no ragequit issues with the Annihilation Barge costed at 120.
You're still getting a decent TL weapons platform with QS and the ability to Jink. (Wave Serpents deal with it just fine)
Also, an effective armor value of 13 still gives a lot of armies issues with scoring penetrating hits.

The sky is not falling.

Jinking now robs it off most of its fire power, making it an even less attractive option.

Yea the double whammy of the price bump and the tesla nerf makes them suck. You are better off putting the points into Destroyers or Tomb Blades.

 House Griffith wrote:
I see no ragequit issues with the Annihilation Barge costed at 120.
You're still getting a decent TL weapons platform with QS and the ability to Jink. (Wave Serpents deal with it just fine)

The WS is also a dedicated transport, a Fast skimmer, has 12"+ of range over the AB, one of its weapons ignores cover, and it doesn't rely on a fancy mechanic to get a reasonable number of hits (if it got ~11 TL shots, like the WS, then I imagine people would have fewer problems with it snapshotting).

 House Griffith wrote:

Also, an effective armor value of 13 still gives a lot of armies issues with scoring penetrating hits.

The monolith is AV14 - which is even harder to penetrate. Oddly enough, I don't see people queuing up to use them, either.

Even had the old AB survived (points, teams, jink) I think it would be a hard choice. The death ray works now, and upgrades to doomsday ark and new heavy destroyers would make competition tough.

Ffyllotek wrote:
Even had the old AB survived (points, teams, jink) I think it would be a hard choice. The death ray works now, and upgrades to doomsday ark and new heavy destroyers would make competition tough.

If it had gone up to 120pts, but Tesla had stayed the same, I'd have had little issue with it. I'd have probably used it sometimes but, with all the competition you mention, it would have been a hard choice and certainly not the auto-take it once was.

However, with a 33% point increase *and* Tesla being crippled when snapshotting, I just don't see the point any more.

If tesla didn't get nerfed so hard, or no point raise then it would actually have to compete with the other HS choices. Now kinda seems like turn to CCB or just keep on the shelf


Edit: Looks like vipoid beat me to the punch

If tesla destructors had even kept the arc mechanic in some useful form I would probably continue to run them. Or if they had became fast or could be taken in squadrons. Anything other then more expensive and significantly weaker.

Another point to bring up is for 5 to 15 more points you can take a Triarch Stalker that is as durable and mobile but more more effective and versatil. An also brings synergy with the rest of the army.

Ask a space marine player why they don't use predators. With the lascannon sponsons it costs about the same as the A.barge, same number of shots trading extra hits for more str, it has double the range and yet I don't see many. For similar reasons I doubt we'll see many A.barges.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
The A-Barge does enormously more damage to high-T targets (5+) than the gauss flayer array does. The latter does more damage to low-T, poor-armor save infantry.

It really doesn't. It still averages less then 1.8ish wounds. The GA averages 1.2ish wounds. So not really significant.

That's 1.5 times.


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To continue playing Devil's Advocate, the Barge also has a turreted weapon, meaning that it doesn't have to position itself in specific ways to fire and can shoot when immobilized.

With the very recent Jink nerf, the AB has become even less worthwhile.

 Sigvatr wrote:
With the very recent Jink nerf, the AB has become even less worthwhile.

What jink nerf?

Immobilised skimmers can no longer jink.

Well, at least it makes sense.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Well, at least it makes sense.

Like bikes being able to jink after not moving.

 Byte wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Well, at least it makes sense.

Like bikes being able to jink after not moving.

They drove in a cirlce? Burned rubber to make a smoke screen? Ha, I don't know there's a bunch of silly stuff that would occur from the rules if you really tried to picture it all.

To be fair, though, Jinking while being immobilized would make sense. As stated in the BRB, immobilised might just mean that the skimmer could not be able to move to another spot, but still hover around in the spot, thus allowing for a swift turn to the left or right and thus dodging stuff.

 Sigvatr wrote:
To be fair, though, Jinking while being immobilized would make sense. As stated in the BRB, immobilised might just mean that the skimmer could not be able to move to another spot, but still hover around in the spot, thus allowing for a swift turn to the left or right and thus dodging stuff.

So the bikes sit there and perform matrix like dodging maneuvers.

Alcibiades wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
The A-Barge does enormously more damage to high-T targets (5+) than the gauss flayer array does. The latter does more damage to low-T, poor-armor save infantry.

It really doesn't. It still averages less then 1.8ish wounds. The GA averages 1.2ish wounds. So not really significant.

That's 1.5 times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To continue playing Devil's Advocate, the Barge also has a turreted weapon, meaning that it doesn't have to position itself in specific ways to fire and can shoot when immobilized.

To be fair the gun doesn't move nor is designed to thus by RAW it is hull mounted and not a turret.

Pretty sure you are wrong there and it really IS a turret...

Otherwise my necron friend has unknowingly cheated for years XD

BRB says its gotta move or was designed to move to be a turret. It does neither so I think he made a mistake lol.

I think theyre AWESOME an everyone should own 6.


BtW: check out my sale thread. I think I can supply one person with 6. lol

 BoomWolf wrote:
Pretty sure you are wrong there and it really IS a turret...

Otherwise my necron friend has unknowingly cheated for years XD

My barge isn't glued, because it can easily serve in either configuration without needing glue to hold it in place.

Gun is still totally locked forwards when placed in.

It looks like a turret to me.

GW could just, like, designate some weapons as "turrets."


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That's actually generally the point of having one main weapon on top and a secondary weapon in the front.

Alcibiades wrote:
It looks like a turret to me.

GW could just, like, designate some weapons as "turrets."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's actually generally the point of having one main weapon on top and a secondary weapon in the front.

To both I agree. The rules however are clearish on how it all works.

I have no idea why they stopped declaring what a weapon is in their respective rules but they did. In its place they left us with, "does it or doesn't it move?". Which some interpret as an imagination concept as oppose it a literal concept.

You can however run the interpretation that all vehicle weapons are turrets/hull mounted as each unit doesn't declare what its weapons are.

Just remember to build all your guns so they can swivel

lol Well that would mean all my gauss flayer arrays can both target the same thing.

Actually it seems like as long as a weapon can rotate it can see its target. No weapon is given a specific type of firing arc any more, so its feasible as long as you converted it to move I would say by RAW you're in the clear.

Except the RAW doesn't cover converting models (or even assembling them for that matter)...

Right and it only covers the proccess to determine LOS.

Vehicles no longer have rules to show where a weapons placement even is. Other then the actual kit its self.

As a side note. If you do not glue the Ghost Ark or Doomsday Arks gauss arrays inplace they can swivel around and point to the opposite side. Adding in the allowed 45° up\down from the barrel and you can get both flayer arrays to shoot the same target lol. No modifications to the model and it uses the RAW on weapon movements.

One of the reasons annibarge is not as good as before is that the tesla-nerf actually means it lost range. I used to move my barges 12" and snap shoot quite often if nothing was within 30" and it worked most of the time (we've all seen the math on old tesla and snap shots).

That said, in the context of 7th edition codexes only, current annibarge is balanced, not garbage. Too bad wave serpents are still floating around...

 MLKTH wrote:

That said, in the context of 7th edition codexes only, current annibarge is balanced, not garbage.

I don't anyone is saying it's garbage, it's just probably the worst way to spend 120 points in the new codex.

I mean, sure if we try hard enough, we may find a few, specific, situations where it's better than say half a dozen Tomb Blades, in an unbound, or CAD.

Remember too, in a Decurion, you can't even field one by itself. You need to field 2 A-Barges with a Doomsday Ark. A formation where the Abarges sit out range of everything while you strip them of their Quantum Shielding to keep the Doomsday Ark's shielding up. See, for 240 points, 2 A-barges can be useful for something that nothing else in the codex can do. You know, unless you just run the Doomsday ark in a CAD, or Mephrit Dynasty FOC, and save 70 points and just run 2 Doomsday Arks.

Or perhaps an Obelisk?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Too expensive. New points cost would be ok with the old AB, but the additional nerf to Tesla and the resulting nerf to its anti-air capabilities was too much.

This exactly. The points increase would have been okay. The tesla nerf would have been worse but still okay. Both together? My Barges will be doing CCB duty or gathering dust on the shelf .

 adamsouza wrote:

 MLKTH wrote:

That said, in the context of 7th edition codexes only, current annibarge is balanced, not garbage.

I don't anyone is saying it's garbage, it's just probably the worst way to spend 120 points in the new codex.

I mean, sure if we try hard enough, we may find a few, specific, situations where it's better than say half a dozen Tomb Blades, in an unbound, or CAD.

Remember too, in a Decurion, you can't even field one by itself. You need to field 2 A-Barges with a Doomsday Ark. A formation where the Abarges sit out range of everything while you strip them of their Quantum Shielding to keep the Doomsday Ark's shielding up. See, for 240 points, 2 A-barges can be useful for something that nothing else in the codex can do. You know, unless you just run the Doomsday ark in a CAD, or Mephrit Dynasty FOC, and save 70 points and just run 2 Doomsday Arks.

Eeem...who said they have to sit with the ark? its a formation, but not an armored spearhead (AFAIK)

To use the Quantum Deflection rule the Annihilation Barge must be within 6" of the Doomsday Ark.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Eeem...who said they have to sit with the ark? its a formation, but not an armored spearhead (AFAIK)

You sit near each other to get the benefit from the formation.

Not seeing much value in that formation, though. Your AB would just spend the game sitting next to a DA while rarely being able to shoot at things due to the limited range. I'd take a second DA over the formation anytime.

The points increase was valid, and makes sense. In its previous version the thing was an auto-take, it was so good.

Now, however, the nerf to tesla snap shots is a massive nerf to its efficiency in AA, while jinking, and a host of other situations.
I'm not sure what to do with mine anymore.

It's still a good solid unit with lots of fire power.

Hollismason wrote:
It's still a solid unit with fire power.

Edited for typos

The formation bonus isnt that great and i really wouldnt use it but as part of the duricon all living metal ignors 1-4 on the damage table which is useful for there shooting. Especialy the doomsday.

Hollismason wrote:
It's still a good solid unit with lots of fire power.

On its own? Yes. With the rest of the choices now available to Necrons? No.

To be honest, this change just reeks of poor work. I don't think that GW even intended it to be nerfed three times. They increased its cost to balance it, but I think that GW then changed Tesla in response to overwatching Tesla units, while completely forgetting about the AB and the consequence such a nerf would bring. And rest be assured that GW certainly didn't include the recent Jink nerf into consideration.

The whole codex seems really weird and instead of being a homogenous piece of work, it more looks like a collaborative work of several individual writers who poorly communicated with each other. This applies to several changes and definitely reflects upon the codex as a whole which went quite overboard and made a solid, middle of the road army into a really strong army with a few...questionable builds.

People keep talking about the jink nerf, but honestly its hardly even relevant.

How often do you see an immoblised tank, where jinking would even give it a chance to survive?

Especially an annibarge, who is probably AV11 now if its immo, so its practically dead anyway.


The problem now is not that the annibarge is bad, because its still a decent unit by all counts-its that it is surrounded by so many amazing or even OP units that it pales in comparison.

The annibarge, as its current self, is still a good tank when you look at tanks in general.

When Tesla was invented and the A-barge was originally priced, there were no snap shots and no overwatch. The A-barge's weapon was not nerfed; it was brought back to where it was to begin with.

 BoomWolf wrote:
People keep talking about the jink nerf, but honestly its hardly even relevant.

How often do you see an immobilized tank, where jinking would even give it a chance to survive?

Prior to the new book, all the time. My Barges have a nasty habit of immobilizing themselves in the movement phase, because with only a 24" range gun, they're charging forward aggressively the first few turns, and jumping up onto terrain for LOS. It wasn't uncommon for me to finish a game with all 3 Barges immobilized, but still with Quantum Shielding up and a hull point or two left, stuck in a good firing position.

After the book, no idea. With the extra cost and gutted mobility-firepower, they got cut. NS covers my ranged-mobile firepower slot, because they can actually get in range of the enemy without being forced to snap-shot.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Especially an annibarge, who is probably AV11 now if its immo, so its practically dead anyway.

Uhm...that's the point...if you're down to AV11, you would absolutely want to jink.

I don't think I'd want to face a Decurion w/ 2 formations of Annihilation Nexus, the total cost for the Nexus x 2 is 420 which in a 1800+ point game leaves a a bit over a 1000 points for the Reclamation legion.

Overlord w/ Warscythe , Phase Shifter
1 Units of Warriors in a Ghost Ark
1 15 Man unit of Warriors
5 Immortals in a Night Scythe
5 Tomb Blades w/ Particle Beamers
5 Tom Blades w/ Gauss Cannons
2 Annihilation Nexus

36 Tesla Shots
2 ST10 AP2 Shots
40 Gauss Flayer Shots
15 Gauss shots
5 ST6 Blasts
10 Gauss Shots

Well, it was an auto include in a Necron army according to the former codex.
But now it's no longer.
Two for 240 pts or even three are costly.
Some suggest an Obelisk.
But it's fire angles makes it questionable.