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Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/24 08:12:46


Post by: Azazelx


I'M SLOWLY REPAIRING THE BLOG AFTER THE PHOTOBUCKETPOCALYPSE, A FEW POSTS AT A TIME. WORKING FROM OLDEST TO NEWEST ACROSS MY THREADS, SO IT'LL UNFORTUNATELY TAKE A LITTLE WHILE.


So as not to muck up the proper army building pledge thread, I'll start posting my LotR stuff in here instead. Some stuff (like this first post) will have content cross-posted from my regular P&M blog thread, while I'll also show some older stuff that's not been shown in the P&M Blog. Everything will of course be LotR-related, though. I'll start with my most recent LotR thing, which is kinda like starting off with a Whimper instead of a Bang, but hey!

So anyway... remember this from 2003?


LotR RotK SBG Box. FFS!
Well, only 11 and some change years later after buying them, I've finally painted the scenery that came with it. I started one statue and rubble pile last year, then found the second status and rubble pile, sprayed them, then let them all sit in their own (rubble) pile on the painting desk until a couple of weeks ago, when (as you'd be used to by now) I pulled out my finger and finished the former and painted the latter.



Actually, I'm pretty happy with how well they came out in the end. Some static flock, some tufts and a bit of weathering powders have given them a look I'm quite happy with over the bog-standard drybrushing.



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/24 08:50:15


Post by: angelofvengeance


How much stuff comes in that kit then Az?


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/24 09:26:44


Post by: Archer


I was always intrigued by the Lord of the Rings models, even bought a couple (including a debacle where my Fellowship of the Ring box had no Frodo but two Sam's).

Interested to see the various LoTR models you have.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/24 11:11:45


Post by: Azazelx


I've got a fair few - many predating the Wordpress and moreso the Dakka blog. I'll try and post stuff at least once a week. Lots of stuff to photograph these days for both, and while my growing Gondor army looks impressive on the table, they're pretty tedious individually...

The RotK boxed game came with a full-sized softcover rulebook, 24 each of Warriors of Minas Tirith and the same number of Orcs. A sprue of terrain - those 4 pieces and a small bit with some fallen shields. Also some dice and wacky sticks. None of the original three games actually came with any members of the Fellowship, which I'm only just finding amusing now. That came later with the Mines of Moria set.





Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/24 11:23:50


Post by: Paradigm


Cool stuff, the scenery looks great. I look forward to seeing the rest of your collection.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/24 14:57:11


Post by: Captain Galenus


Nice! I remeber the old Two Towers box similar to this with RoR and Uruk Hai... Back in the good ol' days

Also looking forward to more Gondor love!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/25 07:41:31


Post by: Azazelx


Yep! The original three boxes - and even Moria were good times.

Here's something I shared on my regular P&M blog last February. (I haven't had a chance to take photos of new stuff yet - hopefully tomorrow). This is a Reaper Bones "Spirit of the Forest" that I painted up to be an Ent or even a Huorn. The film's ones were nice enough, but the official models are very limited, and I always pictured the Ents as encompassing a wide variety of "body types" anyway. It was a 28-hour, last minute speedpaint, originally for one of the monthly comps over at TOR


It turned out to not be a fun easy mini to paint as I'd hoped, but pretty horrible, with ill-defined "what the hell is that supposed to be?" "details" all over it. It's not going to win any prizes - over on TOR or anywhere else, but I was at least on track at the end of the first night for a half-decent tabletop model by the end bell.


I also decided to grab a pic before adding the moss and foliage. You can see much of the muddy "detail" on the model that I decided to cover...
I considered OSL for the eyes, but decided against it. I wanted to keep it a little more subtle for this model. I went with WARNING MAY VIOLATE STRICT CANON "green Entish" eyes over "red Huornish" ones.

And done!





Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/25 19:25:23


Post by: Da Boss


I really liked that Ent when I saw it on your blog. If I see the mini anywhere I will pick it up because despite your pretty negative view on it, I think your paintjob and finish are really great.

I like the GW Ent too, but I agree it is too samey if you want more than one Ent in a force. (Which I do).


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/25 21:09:05


Post by: Azazelx


Oh, I'm not completely negative. I'm quite happy with the way it turned out, it's just that a lot of the detail is mushy and it turned out to not nearly as fun/easy to paint as I'd hoped. Kinda like the Mantic Ogres. I hated painting them, and they held up my Ogre army for pretty much a year, but now that they're finished, I'm actually happy with how they turned out. Just not fun to paint.

I've got one GW Ent finished, one unbuilt and a Treebeard who has been half-finished for several years now. Sadly the completed one has suffered some "battle damage" breakage of the smaller twigs from being used in battles by ham-handed friends. It's the sort of thing that makes me scared for pretty much every unit armed with spears of pikes, as well as almost any of the new whiz-bang "dynamic" GW plastic centrepiece figures...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/26 21:15:21


Post by: Azazelx


Just a simple one today. Some of these models were finished last year, but I've finally finished off the last few of these last weekend, so now the unit is finished (for now). I've got them stuck to a Renedra 100x80mm movement tray for Kings of War, but since I use these guys for the Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game I keep them based on 25mm rounds (also for aesthetics, and for consistency with most of my other models). These figures, as reasonably simple and uniform as they are have become a real bane to my painting queue. Originally, I only had the 24 models that came with the RotK starter box, and so with 8 of each type (Archers/Spear/Blade) I afforded them each a reasonable paint job, which involved blending their skirts, leggings and the edges of their shields with wolf grey over black rather than doing something simpler and faster like a black wash over dark grey. Because of this, and the fact that they're just not that interesting to paint - particularly en masse, they tend to take me forever to get done. The tree device on the shields, as many people will know is reeeeeeeally shallow as well, making it way trickier than it should be to give a quick once-over, which is a bit annoying.



When finished - and especially in a unit either on a tray or in a bunch - they look pretty good. They're effective at looking like what they're supposed to be. On the other hand, individually, they're really not very exciting at all. This is why despite painting quite a few of these guys last year and haven't shown any of them off to date aside from a single character model - Beregond. These guys are only on show today since I'm wanting to photograph everything I finish this year, and because you guys have shown some interest.



In the rear view here you can see the blending on their skirts. It's come out a little more stark in the photos than in real life, but that's ok. The 75mm of the three ranks of figures also doesn't quite fill the 80mm of the movement tray, but again that's ok - especially as Kings of War is an element based game, and people often use fewer models and/or unit fillers - this unit "should" be 20 men strong, rather than 12 - but that's okay since it means I actually get a lot more units completed by using models and their bases in this way.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/27 09:20:12


Post by: Wolf


Hey those warriors of minas tirith are very nice ! I'm glad I dont have any to compare them too so I dont get too jealous haha

Cant wait to see more


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/27 09:47:35


Post by: Captain Galenus


Very cool minis! As you say, rank and file don't need to win no Golden Daemons to look good, but I must say yours look a helluva lot better than what my mass batch painting amounts to! I agree these really are my bane because I love them before and after the painiting marathon, but fail to really excite myself when actually painting them (so I normally add those childish little blood splatters that make no sense if they're fighting orcs...)!

One thing more.... never *deep breath to control myself* NEVER mention those blasted tree motifs again. I want to sleep tonight but I may have too many nightmares now...





Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/27 14:22:11


Post by: Azazelx


Oh yeah. I'll have something to really give you nightmares shortly in that case.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/27 15:00:18


Post by: Paradigm


The Gondor stuff and the Ent look great, I certainly could never spend that kind of time on rank-and-file WoMT (I do have another Warband to go through for next month) but the results speak for themselves!

With the 12='20' basing method, how many minis would you say was needed for a decent game of KoW? Does it play alright with maybe half a dozen units that size a side, or would you need a lot more?


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/27 18:34:13


Post by: Strombones


Damn. I feel like I really missed out by not ever playing LotR. I always heard great things about it but by the time I broke up with 40k no one really played it anymore. Well to be fair I don't think it ever had much of a strong following in the States anyway.

A boxed skirmish game like that of plastic models would really strike my fancy these days.

Maybe I can snag something off the ole' ebays.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/27 18:35:52


Post by: BeAfraid


I just don't get using the same models for Massed Battles and Skirmish.

ぜん!ぜん!じゃ!ない!
(Zen! Zen! Ja! Nai! - Not! At! All!)

I suppose that with ridiculously priced models, that might be an issue.

But the LotR stuff can be had for a song-and-dance on eBay at this point (least the older stuff).

MN


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/27 22:20:32


Post by: Azazelx


BA - You'll just have to suck it up and live with the fact that other people on the other side of the world who you'll never interact with aren't doing things the way that you would. You'll also have to live with the fact that I've got way more models than you lost in that storage shed, and as such, I'll never paint them all, and that it would be a huge waste of my key resource - that is TIME - not money - to paint essentially the same models twice with slightly different bases to play a couple of different games. Furthermore, I strongly prefer the aesthetic of individual round bases, and SHOCK HORROR have been rebasing my old Warhammer models from squares to rounds. Aside from that, the older GW LotR figures are far from "cheap" on eBay as well as resellers move their prices in line with GW's and options in Australia are severely more limited than in the US.

Hopefully this helps you "get" my choice. If not, I don't want to fething hear about it and I certainly don't want to have you gaking up my thread with this kind of irrelevant criticism. By that token, if you feel a driving need to tell me how anything that I show here is "wrong" like the cacti in the other thread, feel free to not post at all, because if I want your particular brand of constructive criticism, I'll ask for it. When the only comment you bother to make on the stuff that I show here is to criticise my basing style, then it is very much going to devalue your opinions. So please play nice so we can have civil discussions and talk about LotR and miniature-related things.


Strombones - it's reasonably easy to download the rules, and as our charming and socially-skilled friend points out, a lot of the same models are reasonably easily acquired on eBay still, and a lot cheaper than the boxed sets would cost these days. There are also a lot of historical figures that work perfectly for other factions.

Paradigm - You could certainly get 600+ points going with those kinds of numbers, which is small but a good start and very playable - good to learn the game mechanics in fact. Remember as well that you can easily ally armies using the KoW rules, so, say Gondor+Rohan, or Orcs+Goblins etc. Having 12 models to an element (rather than 20) helps as well.

Anyway, here's another model.







Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/27 22:28:42


Post by: Paradigm


Very nice once more! Is that the plastic Gandalf from MoM? I keep meaning to grab those figures if I see them at a reasonable price, but ever since GW raised the price to be their most expensive single sprue (about £37, dread to think what that would be in AU) even Ebay is no good.

My thinking for KoW-conversion, triggered by your 12=20 basing idea, was that it would be easy enough to transfer a Warband in LotR to a Regiment in KoW, so would give me a faster-playing game that would still let me use the full scope of stuff I had but without getting bogged down in the minutae of 100ish models at once. I may well try it out, or even look at home-editing the best bits of LotR SBG and KoW together (taking Heroic Stats, Priority ect and mixing it with the simple KoW unit mechanics and Morale system. Would be quite some work, but could be fun)


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/27 22:48:46


Post by: Azazelx


That's the Gandalf from the initial metal Fellowship of the Ring box, so pretty much the first released sculpt of Gandalf from the "new" GW licence.

The main thing that KoW misses out on is the scope (and number) of heroes in SBG. If you want a more "SBG" style game, I'd recommend by starting with the "proper" KoW rules, but removing the restrictions on heroes, and going through the various army lists to find profiles (with their points costs) that you feel fairly fit the various heroes, rather than strictly sticking with the ones given for the army.

I've sort of done similar with my WIP Gondor army - Human archers are garbage, so for my Rangers of Gondor/Grey Company I'm using "Elf Scouts" stats and point costs (but with the Kingdoms of Men "army special rule", and also using "Elf Cavalry" for SKoDA in the same way. Technically/RAW I can do this anyway, but they'd have the "Elf" army special rule (Elite), and not benefit from human leadership or banners.

I "balance" this by disallowing huge chunks of the KoM list - anything that doesn't fit the Gondor force, so nothing approximating Ogres, fanatics, or gunpowder weapons/artillery, etc.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/28 05:35:09


Post by: BeAfraid


Who said not understanding it meant that I don't know people do it?

Just like I don't understand why some people find huge beards attractive, doesn't mean that I don,t know there are people who do.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to mention it not being a criticism... Defensive a little bit?

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/28 12:51:06


Post by: Azazelx


It's simply needless, irrelevant, said in a critical manner "I can see it for expensive models, but these are available cheaply"and also rather rude - as is your "defensive much?" attempt to further provoke. As I said - when your only comment is to disparage the basing, then I find your intent suspicious at best. Now please refrain from further attempting to derail this thread. Thank you kindly.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/28 13:22:09


Post by: Captain Galenus


 Azazelx wrote:
Oh yeah. I'll have something to really give you nightmares shortly in that case.


Oh God, please...

Really liking that Gandalf though! Those light shaded robes really are very nice to look at. Even something small like the hilt of his sword makes me happy Much nicer than my version of that Gandalf (though it was one of the first models for LotR so what do you expect! Some of my stuff drastically needs a repaint...).

KoW does sound interesting, especially as I have hordes of minis that wouldn't work in standard SBG. Might check it out, thanks for the heads up! I don't suppose you have any example photos/batreps of battles you've done, as it intrigues me to see how it fits. I'll be checking out the sub-forum anyway though.

Looking forward to more of this lovely work!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/28 13:29:45


Post by: Paradigm


By all accounts the KoW rules are pretty awesome, I've yet to try them myself but they seem good on paper. The thing that may not seem 'right' at the start is the idea that you don't ever remove models, 'casualties' simply add tokens that make a unit more likely to Break or Flee. In other words, your unit will remain at 'full strength' until is is removed, which can seem odd but does speed up play, and keeps the battle looking epic with troop blocks everywhere.

To be honest, it's probably a better way to do large-scale LotR battles than WotR is. As Az point out, the only issue is a lack of heroes and some units, but it's easy to house-rule.

And in case you weren't aware, the full rules are FREE from Mantic:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/KINGS%20OF%20WAR/KoW-MRB-Rules-Web.pdf

http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html

There is also a new edition coming later this year.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/28 14:49:18


Post by: Captain Galenus


Yeah, it sounds like Hail Caesar with the tokens. The thing i don't like about WFB is all the empty trays that appear when units die! However, For WotR I make little dead counters to fill in the dead slots as this is more aesthetically pleasing for me... Yet to fully try this token system but it sounds interesting. Also as pointed out you don't need to worry as much about the number of models you have for each tray.

Free rules! Must be good! . Will check 'em out to see what they're like, sounds good though.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/28 19:16:45


Post by: BeAfraid


Ooh... Didn't see the Gandalf.

He's shiny and pretty....

I don't even have a set of the Fellowship painted up, and one of the things I really wanted to do was to game the various events in the books (rather than the movie versions)..

And the Fellowship would be necessary for that, at a minimum.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/02/28 22:11:14


Post by: Azazelx


 Captain Galenus wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:
Oh yeah. I'll have something to really give you nightmares shortly in that case.


Oh God, please...

Really liking that Gandalf though! Those light shaded robes really are very nice to look at. Even something small like the hilt of his sword makes me happy Much nicer than my version of that Gandalf (though it was one of the first models for LotR so what do you expect! Some of my stuff drastically needs a repaint...).

KoW does sound interesting, especially as I have hordes of minis that wouldn't work in standard SBG. Might check it out, thanks for the heads up! I don't suppose you have any example photos/batreps of battles you've done, as it intrigues me to see how it fits. I'll be checking out the sub-forum anyway though.

Looking forward to more of this lovely work!


Thank you. The colours I used for Gandalf here are very much "inspired by" the PJ films, in that the actual grey would/should be shaded into black and ave a hint of brown in it, rather than the blur-grey I used here. Likewise the hilt of Glamdring would be a little duller, but both changes make it a nicer (and cleaner-looking) model, at least for my own taste.

I haven't done any proper "write-ups" of battle reports, but I do have a couple of simple batreps here:
https://azazelx.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/8-player-kings-of-war-battle-report/
https://azazelx.wordpress.com/2014/04/15/war-room-the-grand-opening-and-some-games-got-played/

Actually it was playing KoW is what's motivated me to properly get larger numbers of minis painted. The Gondor force started off as just the initial 24 models supplemented by a second (half-finished) box before I started to make them a proper thing in KoW. Now there are quite a lot more of the little blighters done. My initial two armies for it were Elves (using my old High Elves) and Ogres (using my older models). Neither are finished, of course - and multiplayer games combined with "more people are coming for a big game, what do I have painted?" meant that a small Undead force as well as the Gondor army came to the fore. They also motivated me to crack open a bunch of Confrontation prepaints and turn those into an army, and then to do that a second time.

Currently my Wife's Undead army is led by The Mouth of Sauron and features a lot of Oathbreakers/Army of the Dead, as can be seen in the BR.

Basically - free rules and army lists. Element (regiment base) -based rather than individual mini-based (so no removing casualties). Plays quick and easy, but has a nice tactical depth to it as well. And then pick the list that you like, and proxy figures for the official ones to your heart's content - especially given that the rules were originally made to not only allow but encourage people to use their existing WHFB armies to get the game to critical mass. Once 2nd edition comes out in a few months with some streamlining and QoL changes (rather than the core of the game) the design team will be making some "unofficially official" army lists for other WHFB races, which just gives people like us more flexibility in which list we use for our own forces. The Kingdoms of Men (KoM) list is designed to be pretty flexible and cover anything from Empire and Bretonnia to Greeks and Romans to Yorkists and Lancastrians. The ally rules make it even more flexible as to what you include, and playing friendly games makes it more flexible yet again in terms of adding units that serve the models in the army.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Captain Galenus wrote:
Yeah, it sounds like Hail Caesar with the tokens. The thing i don't like about WFB is all the empty trays that appear when units die! However, For WotR I make little dead counters to fill in the dead slots as this is more aesthetically pleasing for me... Yet to fully try this token system but it sounds interesting. Also as pointed out you don't need to worry as much about the number of models you have for each tray.

Free rules! Must be good! . Will check 'em out to see what they're like, sounds good though.


We just use D10s to keep track of the wounds, but yeah - same difference. Free rules were (and still are) essentially part of their marketing effort. Wanting to be a competitor to WHFB (and sell your own models) needs to get people playing first. Hence - making the first wave of Army lists WHFB-compatible, and the rules free, so disaffected WHFB players are more willing to give it a go. I mean, most of my models that are on the table are still from GW at this stage, and while I have a bunch of Mantic's Undead and Ogres, only a few are on the table compared to my old WHFB models, etc. They're still not in a position where they can force people to buy their rules, though you could buy the hardcover until they sold the last of them - hence the newest KS, and all indications are they they will keep the rules free for the foreseeable future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BeAfraid wrote:
Ooh... Didn't see the Gandalf.
He's shiny and pretty....

I don't even have a set of the Fellowship painted up, and one of the things I really wanted to do was to game the various events in the books (rather than the movie versions)..
And the Fellowship would be necessary for that, at a minimum.
MB


Thank you. The Gandalf is one of the better versions of the character from the line. There's a "Rivendell" Gandalf that came much later, but perhaps the sculptor was different (not the Perrys) or maybe they were just having an off day. The initial Fellowship metal box are probably the best (IMO) versions of many of the characters - probably because the level of oversight at that stage of the licence would have been pretty severe - especially with the "flagship" figure box of the entire trilogy.

You might want to look into the official SBG scenario books, if you can find them. They feature quite a number of scenarios based on the books rather than the films as well as the ones seen in the films. So you have the option to have either Arwen or Glorfindel running from the Ringwraiths and taking Frodo across the Bruinen Ford. There are scenarios involving Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, the Barrow-Downs and so on. For larger battles in the later films they offer both suggested forces as well as "values" to build your own, so if you want to remove Elves from Helm's Deep, it's a doddle to do so. While I'm sure you're capable of making your own scenarios, the books certainly can provide a nice base and inspiration for ideas. I understand that the DeAgnosti/GW magazine from years ago went very much down that road as well, especially once they got past the initial hubbub of the films' releases.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/02 10:59:23


Post by: Azazelx


Again - not strictly speaking LotR models, these scenic items are (most of) the Citadel Siege Attackers and Defenders sets from the re-released HIPS Mighty Fortress whenever that was - probably the mid-1990s. I'll be using these alongside the fortress and other various castle-like objects when playing LotR Sieges. The grate is from Grendel, and will also be a pretty integral part of any Helms Deep scenarios, if you see what I mean...







Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/02 11:31:03


Post by: Paradigm


Very nice terrain!

Regarding the Fellowship figures, that FotR Gandalf is one of the nicest (and the mounted one that I think was released around the same time is amazing, shame it now goes for upwards of £50 on ebay!). I'm still partial to the Khazad-dum one sans hat and in perhaps a more iconic pose ("You shall not pass!"), but that one is a close second.

@BeAfraid: Are there any specific scenarios you're looking for? I still hhave all the DeAgostini magazines and there are lots of book-based scenarios there, I can have a look if there's anything in particular you wanted.



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/02 11:41:57


Post by: BeAfraid


Thanks.... I have the magazines (which were among my first gaming purchases of the 00s - maybe the first in 28mm).

But they were pretty much some of what I was referring.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/04 08:05:32


Post by: Azazelx


Barrow-Wights! (And one Army of the Dead/Oathbreaker painted as a third Barrow-Wight)



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/04 10:01:53


Post by: Archer


I like the mix of "real" armor over the insubstantial ghost underneath. Its a refreshing different take on what people usually paint in about 5 minutes (not that I am complaining about that effect, just refreshing to see a different take).


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/04 10:05:36


Post by: Paradigm


They look awesome. I have a few AotD metals that I won't really use for their original purpose (unless I'm playing a Pellenor/Grey Company scenario, I won't run AotD), so I may welll paint them up like this and use them for Angmar.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/04 10:38:35


Post by: SilverMK2


Very nice paintwork on some seldom seen minis!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/04 15:15:37


Post by: Azazelx


Thank you, Gents!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/04 16:59:46


Post by: Da Boss


Lovely miniatures. Like the others have said, the contrast between armour and weapons, face/hands and robes is really effective.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/04 18:41:01


Post by: Stormwall


Love the Gondor soldiers.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/05 03:53:24


Post by: Azazelx


This guy was done awhile ago (late 2012), painted for a charity auction. Very happy with how well he came out in the end. I still need to paint this model for myself. Well, I guess once Gondor is "finished", Rohan will be next up.







A couple more pics here, but they're just additional angles.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/05 10:34:47


Post by: Paradigm


Nice work! I've always loved that Theoden sculpt!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/06 02:43:17


Post by: Azazelx


This one goes out especially to Captain Galenus. For the White Tree!

These guys were painted last year, making up a decent chunk of the models I painted. As I've said, I wanted to avoid showing them individually (or at all) until I had more to show. Now that I've shown some of them recently, I figure I may as well start to show them off here on the blog to help motivate myself to get the army finished. I've got two units of swordsmen finished so far for Kings of War - one set up as a Regiment, and one as a Horde. They used to be three units, but I combined two into the larger unit.


Everything I said about painting them previously applied and applies just as much to these guys, as well as the ones I've still got to paint.


For Horde-sized units, I just double the number of models I use for a regiment. In this case 12->20 becomes 24->40. I think it still works, especially on the tabletop.


My two units of Sword-Armed Warriors of Minas Tirith



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/06 06:41:35


Post by: Archer


Can I be a pain in the proverbial (as well as show my naievity) in regards to what you mean by 12->20 and 24->40? Is it that a unit of 12 counts as units of 20?

Besides my question they look spectacular all ranked up. The paint job is great (far, far better than what I tend to do to regiments....) I like the bases a lot. What have you done with them? Painted sand with static grass?


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/06 10:30:47


Post by: Paradigm


Awesome stuff! Sure puts the one I've done recently to shame!

 Archer wrote:
Can I be a pain in the proverbial (as well as show my naievity) in regards to what you mean by 12->20 and 24->40? Is it that a unit of 12 counts as units of 20?


In Kings of War, the system Az uses for mass battle, the unit 'size' is just an indicator of how big the unit's base should be. For example, a Regiment of 20 men requires a unit base that is the same size as 20 20mm square bases (so 100x80mm). As the game mechanics are per-unit rather than per model (so you don't remove models when they die, the unit has a fixed Attack stat ect), there's no actual requirement to use that number of models so long as the overall base size is correct.

So Az uses 12 guys (on 25mm Round bases) to stand in for a regiment of 20, I go even further and use 6-10 guys on a 100x80mm base for the same unit as I prefer looser formations (and need less minis ). The game works fine either way, which is one of the best things about it.

There's a bit more discussion on this in the LotR Meets KoW thread a few lines down.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/06 10:45:06


Post by: Archer


Thanks a lot Paradigm. Sorry for the interruption Az, please return to entertaining me with your awesome paint jobs.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/06 13:30:58


Post by: Azazelx


No worries - and Para got it exactly. Doing it like this also means that my figures are just blu-tac-pry away from being able to be used in SBG (which I plan to get back to as well) and even WotR if I invest in enough of GW's proprietary regiment bases. Though some might say I'm doing it wrong, I'm happy, so that's all that matters!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/08 12:33:58


Post by: Azazelx


I've just sat down with my models and worked out exactly what I need to "finish" my Gondor figures. Not counting the odd plastic fig or 6 to finish a unit once I get everything painted.

Mounted Prince Imrahil (thought I had him, but no)
1 Metal SKoDA
1 Osgilliath Vet at minimum, or preferably 2 Bows and 2 Spears - At least I can convert these
6 Clansmen of Lossarnach - or a blister of 3 + 1 extra if I tweak. (not twerk)
6 Men-at-Arms of Dol Amroth
4 Warriors of Arnor
5 Guardians of the Fountain Court

Plus anything interesting as extras, like the WoTR Command Group with the nice big banner, and the 2-handed sword guy in it.

That's also not counting Men of Numenor - which I haven't decided what to do with yet. Paint them black as in the opening or FotR? Paint them with blue as Dol Amroth troops (with slightly different shields? Green for Arnor? I really don't know yet. I'll no doubt also need to "round out" those figures as well, but I'm sure it won't be too hard to do.


Hm.... maybe that extra SKoDA I found was actually Imrahil. I'll have to check in the morning. It'll mean I need 2 metal SKoDA instead of one, but not Imrahil. Which should be cheaper.
Unless I run the metal ones as a unique unit of 3>5 and have the standard as a separate army standard. In which case I wouldn't need any more...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/08 17:17:18


Post by: BeAfraid


It is a pity there are no dedicated models for the western Fiefs of Gondor, such as Erech, Morthond Vale, Pinnath Gelin, or the Langstrand.

They try to pass off using Rangers of Gondor for Morthond Vale, but the Rangers are Light Troops, mostly intended for Skirmishing, and the Morthond Vale troops were formed Archers with a small number of Spearmen to their front. Think sort of like English Longbowmen with Billmen to their front as protection.

And like English Longbowmen, they could be very heavily armored.

The Pinnath Gelin "troops" (if they could really be called that) were closer to the Rangers, but they would have much more ragged clothing, and no swords. They were hunters, and highlanders who simply gathered for a battle. They are described in The Levy of the Fiefs as being light archers, carrying long knives, and wearing light green, and brown clothing that offered no protection.

I have some sloppy sketches of some Mid-3rd Age troops from these regions, which likely would not have changed a lot in the next 1200 years, but they are in the next lot of miniatures to sculpt after I finish the Hithaeglir Lesser-Orcs/Goblins.

I'll dig out the sketches this evening to post for people to take a look at.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the Men of Númenóre....

I would go with using them as the troops from Dol Amroth. The Númenórean Spearmen would be very close to what most of the Standing Levy of Gondor would have looked like.

If you have the "gumption" to do so, if you swapped some heads from a few of the metal Gondorians (I think there are some Captains, and a few others with the later winged-helms of Gondor out there... Or do a press-mold of the head to use) to get a selection that had a variety of helmets (older and newer) it would look cool...

But I think they would look better as Dol Amroth troops.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/08 21:33:58


Post by: Azazelx


If you have any specific ideas on how any of the recent ranges of plastic Perry troops could be used as Fiefdom troops, I'm certainly interested.

As for the Men of Numenor figures, most are armed with sword and shield - I've got 2 spearmen, and another 4 coming, so I'll need an additional 6 to make a functional unit.. and no archers at all.

Which helmets are you talking about? Do you mean putting these helmets


onto these figures?


I do have a few of these heads from eBob as well. Well, enough for (I think) 24 figures, so either 2 regiment-sized units or one Horde.


http://www.ebobminiatures.com/products/components.htm

I originally got them for headswaps on the SKoDA cavalry and infantry (to remove their ridiculous "high elf" helmets), but I'm loath to cut off heads from figures that are now expensive, discontinued and hard to get - especially now that more sane-looking SKoDA figures are readily available - but more than happy to take off the heads of regular plastic WoMT to turn them into additional Dol Amroth troops. Swan on the helm and Tree on the chest. Not entirely ideal. I could scrape the tree off, or leave it there as a mark of their shared heritage and status as Gondor troops. And then press-mould some shield overlays from the foot SKoDA figures.



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/08 21:38:27


Post by: Paradigm


Here's an idea that may work:

If you want to put Ebob heads on the WoMT bodies, you could stick the WoMT heads on the Numenor bodies, perhaps convert those without to have spears, and use them as Citadel Guard (if they can take a shield, I'm not sure) or counts-as GotFC. They have the capes and such to fit as either, stick on some WoMT heads and they'll look less overtly Numenor, more MT. It would certainly be more useful and cheaper than trying to put together a 2nd Age Numenor army.

As for Perry conversions, I will be using the Foot Knights kit to represent MAA of Dol Amroth (with or without swapped helmets). There's enough 2-handed-polearms per sprue that you could give them all Pikes easily enough, and in theory enough open helms to work.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/08 22:00:03


Post by: Azazelx


That could work, though my hopeful plan is to bring the Gondor force to a close, simply by using all of my existing models as whatever works, and then perhaps supplementing them with a unit or so of additional Fiefdom troops via the Perry ranges. I'm thinking one unit per fiefdom really - maybe two max if I do something like what BA suggests for Blackroot/Morthond Vale as they will be more for colour with the exception of Dol Amroth, since I've got a few more of those already. So they will be more of a contingent than the others.

No shields for the Citadel Guard, I'm afraid (just checked), and since I haven't got any painted Numenorian figures, I'm now thinking that I'd prefer to avoid converting them at all, so I have some "original" figures painted up (especially as I don't have all that many of them) - especially as they have a distinctly different look compared to the 3rd Age WoMT figures. The Foot Knights are a good idea, though.

I'll have one single unit worth of Arnor spears (when I get hold of a couple more figures). Not terribly exciting, though I'm thinking I'll still paint them in the appropriate colour (which seems to be green?) as I also have the Arvedui and Malbeth figures and would like to use them in SBG scenario play (and as generic heroes in KoW) - so again - no conversion planned. Any idea of which of the 3rd Age Fiefdoms they could easily stand in for when painted in the more-or-less "official" scheme?

Spoiler:



The thought of finishing this army and putting a cap on it is really something I'm liking. In all of my many years of wargaming, I've had many armies on the table, but never actually "finished" an army to the point where I was completely done. The prospect of doing so here is actually pretty exciting. (Painting the Nth version of Aragorn/Boromir don't count towards or against "finished")


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/09 19:39:17


Post by: Azazelx


I've finished a pair of War Machines for my growing Gondor army. As fate would have it, right after photographing these guys the other day I won a second one of each on eBay, so I'll have to do a followup post to this one in a month or three when they've been paired. I think two of each should be plenty - both for games of LotR and KoW.







I'm not entirely sure which crewmen go with which artillery piece, except for the guy with more bolts, but it hardly matters anyway. Like a lot of the LotR range, and the Gondor/Minas Tirith stuff specifically, they're straightforward models that aren't anything flashy, but look good en masse and on the tabletop.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/10 00:28:26


Post by: BeAfraid


Really the Perry Plastics area too late-period for Middle-earth.

Peter Jackson's depictions are really too late-period, with too much plate armor. Tolkien was very explicit in both The Letters of JRRT and The History of Middle-earth that Middle-earth mankind remained roughly approximate to 700 - 1100AD England (which some specific comparisons slightly earlier and/or geographically distinct)

But Peter Jackson's is roughly 1250 - 1350 Italian, whereas the Plastic Perry stuff is roughly 1400 - 1500 English/French.

The Billmen would be something to completely avoid.

But the HYW Archers might work with eBob head-swaps (now that I think about it, I should produce some helmets and heads, which I could do in a couple of hours, and the printing costs would be <$100).

Also... The plastic Númenóreans are too small to use for most head swaps. The early LotR plastic stuff was tiny compared to later.

For other Fiefs, the eBob heads on miniatures like the Fireforge Norman foot, or the Perry Crusader Foot, would give you Levy troops for places like Linhir, Erech, Pelargir, Belfalas, Lebennin, or Morthond (not the Vale where the Archers come from, but the lowlands).

I have a list of the fiefs that Tolkien defined in working out the establishment of Gondor, but these likely will have had some change as Gondor Aged (with things like the Establishment of Dol Amroth, or the loss of Umbar and back-and-forth of Harondor).

As for the SWoDA.... The original metal ones.... I took a file and mill to their helmets (which I measured as being almost 28" tall, or 36" for the whole helmet) to bring them down to a more "normal" height. The swan head/neck sticking up and the shape of the remaining helmet looks really good.

But it was a freaking LOT of work, and with the release of the plastic ones, which look less laughable, the work seems to have been for nothing.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/11 09:13:09


Post by: Azazelx


I appreciate the feedback. I might use a few armoured Perry figures - either whole or in part - to kitbash some equivalents to the Knights of the White Tower models.

The HYW archers don't seem like they'd take the eBob heads very well, and the eBob heads are pretty specifically Dol Amroth themed anyway - they were originally sculpted as replacements for the SKoDA and FKoDA models. It doesn't come across all that well in the photos on his website, but the embellishments on them are a swan with spread wings (the swan's head above the forehead). I bought them with the intent of decapitation and replacement, but like yourself with several of the new plastic boxes in hand, I'm not going to cut up the older metals any more.

As I've said, I prefer to keep the Numenorians' heads as-is, with variation only in their paint, so there's no issues there.

I won't be buying any Perry metals, due to issues I've already spoken about with shipping and alternate supply - though their mailed spearmen aren't unreasonably priced - but still their crusades range is out.

When you say Fireforge Normans, do you mean the Conquest ones? Fireforge don't have Normans.

Any ideas on colour schemes for the Feifdoms?


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/11 16:42:09


Post by: BeAfraid


Yes, Conquest.

I have moments of plastic confusion.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I keep telling people.

If there is something simple that you want sculpted, let me know and I can produce it pretty easily.

Creating replacement heads is a breeze, and something I should have done ages ago.

But I could also produce weapons, or weapon-arms (since some of the troops have separate weapon arms with weapons).

And this might make for a better initial Kickstarter than my Goblins/Orcs, which seem to be something that confuse some people who do not understand the reasons for them,

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/11 23:42:55


Post by: Azazelx


Since your primary focus seems to be LotR, you'd probably get more interest over on The One Ring - though it's worth
pointing out that ToR seems to be more heavily moderated than here, so.. let's say "over-correcting" people on Tolkien when you get there in the manner of the Cacti etc might get you shut down more quickly by their mods.

I'd recommend making some mock-ups, even sketches on paper of something like heads that you're capable of creating that fit a nice compromise between the PJ films' aesthetic and what you consider properly correct (assuming you want to sell a nice number of them) and then showing them both here and there in order to work out what to produce.

Maybe stuff set up to go on the Fireforge Crusaders and also some for the Conquest Normans. I think you need to set up designs that can work well for (name your Fiefdom/s) and then show them to people, rather than expecting that people will ask for something to represent (say) Erech - because people will not think of it, but may well be receptive if you show them something that they can just stick on the body of a Numenor or Minas Tirith figure for this new, cool result!

Shields would be the other thing to do. Shields that plug into the peg-holes of the Numenorian models that have heraldry appropriate to the Fiefdom(s) of your choice and again fit in broadly with the PJ/Weta/GW aesthetic. Should also be pretty easy.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/12 14:01:30


Post by: BeAfraid


The shields I have already started on.

And I have some weapons that I should probably get attached to some arms for the plastic Númenóreans as well (mostly spears, but a few axes as well).

I originally made the shields for the Minas Tirith Cavalry, since each Fief would have similar Mounted Chivalry, but they would display their local device.

But the heads for The Fireforge and Conquest plastics make sense, thanks.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As forThe One Ring, they are too much a collection of Fan-boys for the Jackson movies, and have not an inkling of why the alterations of Jackson are such a large issue.

Tolkien himself made it pretty clear what he though of such alterations when the first production of The Lord of the Rings was ended because the producers wanted to put beaks and feathers on the Orcs (because making them human looking would 'send the wrong message'). Tolkien was outraged, and refused almost every other offer afterwards to produce movies (Saul Zaentz pretty much lied his way into Tolkien's graces to get the movie rights).

I see my attitude toward Tolkien as no different than other's attitudes toward 40k, or WWII, or anything else about which they have a passion.

Imagine if a Flames of War player had pointed out to another that putting penguins on the bases of their Africa Corps Panzers might not be something one would see in the Tunisian Deserts.

No one would bat an eye.

Yet that is effectively no different than pointing out that desert succulents would not have existed in the Middle-earth Harad regions.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/12 20:15:45


Post by: Azazelx


It really is very different indeed, because one is historical fact that remains on the edges of living memory where real people fought hard and lost their lives while the other is an obscure footnote for a generally unimportant region in a famous author's lesser-known works. Not to mention that one is cartoonishly unrealistic while the other would not look out of place to most people.

ahem.

The point about TOR is of course not how much they are fans of the PJ movies, but how much of a dedicated and receptive audience they would be - and in fact already are for alternative LotR stuff as long as it doesn't come with a lecture on how they're doing it wrong. If you want to sell alternate LotR stuff, there's already a few people there selling their own sculpts, etc, and if you can manage to show off your stuff there without alienating them then you'll be able to garner a lot more support for both your add-on bits as well as any figures you produce that are more true to the writings. I'm genuinely trying to offer helpful and useful advice. You just need to be able to turn off your inner Sheldon when you go there.

...

If you're going to make arms, I'm not sure if it would be worth doing some other/alternate weapons for figures like the Warriors of Arnor? They only have spear options in the official line, but on the other hand, they are a relatively obscure and unimportant part of the official LotR range, and accordingly they are both expensive and hard to get hold of for collectors - so possibly not worth the effort on your part.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/13 00:49:32


Post by: BeAfraid


I recognize that you are trying to be helpful.

As for "turning off my inner Sheldon...."

Like Sheldon.... I probably would if I could.

Like his character (which is based upon very real people) I don't often think there is anything at all wrong with anything I say, and it is genuinely puzzling when people get all bent out of shape.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/13 04:54:31


Post by: Azazelx


In more useful news - I found 6 Clansmen of Lamedon in a baggie inside a box of LotR figures today, so I don't need to buy any more blisters of them - and in fact I now have 1 spare figure to use elsewhere (I already have an idea, will see if it pans out after I paint all the rest) as well as the ability to use Angbor as a separate hero model.

BA - any suggestions on Tartan/colours to use on their belted plaid? I'll be avoiding the blue GW scheme, and I'm somewhat tempted to use Rowdy Roddy Piper's personal Tartan.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/13 05:53:03


Post by: BeAfraid


Tartans are a problem, as Tolkien had tended toward a color scheme for good/bad guys, that was particularly rigid in Gondor.

Blue, Green, Brown, Black, Silver/White: Good

Red, Yellow/Gold, Orange, Black: Bad

Brown could go either way, it was the colors that were matched to it.

And Violet is not mentioned much.

There are some contradictions to these schemes in the heraldry of the Noldorim Noble Houses, and for the Éotheod, where we might find more generous uses of red and yellow, but they tended to be as accents and not as primary colorations.

And Tatar would typically be more fitting for Lossarnach than Lamedon.

But a Green and Brown Tartan with a Blue and Red Pinpoint pattern would look good (as long as the red was very muted or not something external).

It would match really well with the rest of Gondor's colors (Blues, Greens, Browns, Silver/White). Green and Silver makes for a particularly stunning color combination done correctly.

If you made the breastplates a deep metallic green, with a white tree, and the tartan a sympathetic green, with a rich, dark brown, and a bright blue, and burgundy red.... Stunning....

Oh, and Calembel is the seat of Lamedon... If you wanted to do any troops from Calembel, they would be typical Spearmen in Green and White, probably unarmored, or wearing chain.

The cities tended to raise Spearmen in local livery (which was what Aragorn used in the fight against the Corsairs and Southrons once The Dead were finished with them). The Lamedon figures made by GW could be used as Highlanders (which is supposed to be what Lossarnach is... But .........).

MB



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forgot this:

Tartan samples:

http://albanach.org/articles.html?http%3A//albanach.org/colors.html


MB



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/13 07:46:04


Post by: Azazelx


Hm.. .well, I've already painted my Axemen of Lossarnach with a red/white scheme with silver metals. I'd like to keep the plate a steel/silver to keep that thread running through my Gondor force.

I'll have to have a good look at some green-based tartans. Since I'll be painting these on 14 figures, rather than one or two, it needs to be something that I'll be able to finish in a reasonable amount of time, rather than becoming such a pain in the arse that it drives me to stab myself in the neck.

I'm going to have one unit worth of Arnor figures that I'd also like to have a 3rd-age "name" (since Arnor obviously ain't happening alongside a 3rd age Gondor force) so I might call them a unit of spear from Calembel/Lamedon. They have a breastplate, but also most of the rest of their armour is chain unlike the typical WoMT models.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/13 22:05:59


Post by: BeAfraid


The Arnorians remind me a little bit of Dark Ages Iberians, or Charlemagnean Franks.

Which tends to be what most people typically think off when they think of Arnor, since both kingdoms split into three upon their deaths.

But they would probably (the appearances) be closer to Harondor, or Lebenin (the southernmost fied of Gondor at the time of the War of the Ring - seat at Pelargir). If they were painted in a if they were painted in a blue, green, and yellow palate, they would work pretty well as the Caras Maedhrym (city's standing warriors). The shields would need a different device, probably a Dromon, or Carack with a tree on the sail.

I am trying to get some devices created for the various fiefs that can be made into decals for the shields (and the shields just filed down).

Any of the levies aren't going to be so well armored, and it would only be the city troops (Minas Tirith, Pelargir, Linhir, Erech, Gonallach - Lossarnach, Calembel - Lamedon, etc...) that would have that kind of armor (at least if one follows what Peter Jackson was doing).

I suppose they could work for Calembel City troops, since Lamedon, after Lebennin and Belfalas (Dol Amroth) was the richest fief, and would be able to put out such troops (probably very few though).

The Stuff Peter Jackson's designers came up with would really have worked better as Fourth Age Gondorians, toward the end of Eldarion's reign, or immediately after it, during the events of The Shadow Returns when Orcs returned in number to threaten Gondor, led by mysterious Sorcerers out of the East (Tolkien ended the work prematurely, because it was proving to be just another sword & sorcery thriller - pity, he would have bested Howard at his own game).

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/13 23:16:57


Post by: Azazelx


Well, I'm really not wanting to modify the Arnorians - even filing down the shields, since I'll be using them for actual Arnor troops when I play SBG scenarios, etc - but I also want to include them in my KoW force - obviously as a vassal state or fiefdom of Gondor, since there'll only be one "proper" unit of them - similar to the figures of Losarnarch and Lamedon - and I have no intention of making them into an actual army. Just a very small allied contingent and a splash of colour in the otherwise quite dour looking Minas Tirith force. So a 3rd age region I can happily call them by - just for my own amusement really, since none of the others I game with will have this level of knowledge of the minutia of Tolkien. We're pretty much at the level of "These Arnor figures are being used as a regiment of spear for the Feifdom of X, since they're also using green livery and are armed more-or-less correctly." To which people will generally blink, nod, and forget. Green with yellow or white trim would probably work - I'm trying to keep the blues for Dol Amroth to keep them a bit more distinct, especially as they're the one Fiefdom I'll have troops for in any numbers - maybe even enough for a small army in and of themselves (once I check the figures and points). - Especially if I'm going to paint the Men of Numenor models in DA-style livery.

As for new stuff - nothing too exciting today - but since I'm showing off what I finish... and this week I've finished this unit of Moria Goblins from LotR. I'm working to finish the sword & shield armed batch now. I just need to find their shields, or even some replacement shields since the original ones got lost in a move...





Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/14 04:46:23


Post by: BeAfraid


Aaag! My eyes! Green orcs!

Sorry, they look great. But I have never been a fan of the green orc.

LOOONG before the Green Orc became a "thing" (roughly 1984/85, with the release of the first Space Orcs, when what'shisname at Citadel did the first Soace Orcs), I was painting my Orcs black and Dark flesh tones (There is a White Dwarf from 1983 that shows that Fief Factory Orcs with roughly the same colors).

And then in 1982, the guy in Dallas who first brought me to prominence to the miniature companies (Heritage, Partha, Martian Metals, and Dragon Tooth) had me paint these Goblins a green called Basilisk Green. Poly-S, perhaps the best line of miniature and models paints ever in existence, had the license for an official "AD&D" paint line, and Basilisk Green was one of their colors.

And... To top it off... He primed them, and he did not know how to prime miniatures, and they were the grainiest priming job I have yet to encounter (and I did not yet know about paint strippers for miniatures - I would discover them because of this job).

But because of those Green Goblins, I have had a visceral reaction to any Green Goblin or Orc since.

I even offered to pay him to let me re-paint those Goblins another color....

Anyway... The eyes on the front-right most Goblin look pretty good.

And as for the Arnor troops... I suppose that I can understand wanting tojust use them as proxies (something else I gave up on when I hit my 30's, but which I used to do a lot). Not having a broad enough selection to actually complete a force tends to require proxies for many periods.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/14 06:08:41


Post by: Azazelx


Well, in this case, I'm following the colour scheme presented by your favourites at WETA, along with PJ. As opposed to Kev Adam's green GW orcs (which I also do). My LotR Orcs are a variety of shades, again to mimic the PJ films, though I tend to paint D&D Orc models in more of a dark, ruddy brown. Pretty close to how I do my Isengard Uruk-Hai for example.

As for needing to do proxies due to a lack of broad selection... well, here's a few of my unpainted figures. (The old GW boxes have a lot more than what the covers would suggest stuffed into their foam insides. I always found them quite a good way to store figures before I discovered the hardware-store sectioned containers.



These pics are a few years old now, none of my non-WW2 historicals are in those pics for example, and I've sorted much of the other stuff into many, many more of those white tubs. You can fit a LOT of sprues worth of figures into a 15-litre tub, after all. My problem isn't a lack of toy soldiers, or money, or a lack of a broad selection. It's time left on this planet. And I actually quite like the Arnor models, which is why I own them. But I don't like them enough to feel a need to buy hundreds of the three troop sculpts, either. As I said, a nice splash of colour for KoW, and some appropriate figures for the "Historical" scenarios. Multi-use of miniatures is one of the smartest thing that anyone in this hobby can do, in my opinion. Especially when you're the guy in your regular gaming group who provides ALL of the armies and figures...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/14 06:54:25


Post by: BeAfraid


Looks like my room in 1998, prior to my accident.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/14 07:24:43


Post by: Azazelx


Nod. Hopefully that helps to give perspective on breadth vs getting stuff painted and using them across games/forces so games aren't made of grey hordes of lead, pewter or plastic.

I'm sure you also understand a strong preference to play like this:


Over this:



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/14 11:40:22


Post by: Da Boss


Those goblins are well painted, though I have always had a problem with their blobby faces (I've painted over 50 of the little buggers at this stage...) and lack of definition. I'm going to re-touch mine this year, but I am not looking forward to it. I like the proportions and style of the goblins but they were not the best sculpts that GW ever put out...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/14 12:14:43


Post by: Paradigm


Wow, that is a LOT of stuff. And I thought i had a problem...

On Orc skin tones, I do hate the GW green (and in fact, the WFB-style Orc in general), but it does work for these goblins, especially with the red cloth and the yellow eyes. But as for orcs themselves, their skin gets painted any colour that's muddy, dark and not green!

The Moria Goblin sculpts are nice enough, it's the size that I'm not a huge fan of. Not that they're too small, just that those spears are sooo breakable! I'm not sure I have any spearmen actually intact after all these years.



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/14 12:48:45


Post by: BeAfraid


Technically PJ's Moria orcs had a yellow-ochre skin.

You can see it in the promotional photos released with the extended cut of the Moria Goblins chasing the Fellowship to Lórien.

And I prefer a denser grouping of units for armies, but then I don't really do skirmish gaming (I think I have, collectively, about 100 total, of the various factions - or around a couple of dozen each - for the SBG). I use a DBx/FoG basing standard.

It gives a better representation of a unit footprint and figure/man ratio (roughly 50men/figure) for the given ground scale, which the SBG (well, which ANYTHING EVER published by GW fails at) does not seem to accommodate well. It is something that none of their game designers seem to understand the importance of. The divergence of ground scale with movement rates and missile ranges and rates produces strange results (as well as having a strange abstraction for depth).

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/14 13:54:04


Post by: Azazelx


Yeah, I'm not really a huge fan of these goblins. I mean - they work well enough for what they're supposed to be, but they're simply not exciting or fun to paint. Especially in the numbers that they come in! With that in mind, they're getting pretty much my minimum standard, which includes Citadel Foundation Gretchin Green + wash for their skin and faces for the most part, and maybe a highlight on the ones I remember/can be bothered with. A similar story with the two-tone red + wash for the colourful bits of their clothing. Inspired very much by the "official" GW scheme.


As with most things in miniature wargaming, they're full of abstraction and exaggeration - both in the colour palette used as everything should really be closer to a muddy grey if I were being "true" to the films, including the dull metal and weathered blacks (dark greys) of the Gondor uniforms, rather than the much starker and brighter silver and black that I'm using. Or to put it another way, my palette choices are inspired by the GW models and PJ's films which are in turn inspired by the books.

I've got 24 LotR orcs already painted (with various skin shades, including some decidedly non-GW greens) that I'll show off once I've repaired the broken axes and/or spears and swords, and bulked the units up to 20 figures each to get them to usable as regiments in KoW. Maybe 2x 10 for the archers.

As for the number of models in a unit, it's simply a very generalised abstraction - along with the size of everything on the table right down to the actual size of the table, since 28mm really doesn't allow for "realistic" in anything larger than skirmish scale, anyway. I've never played Kings of WarHammer et al for a realistic depiction of a tabletop war. As any kind of 1:1, 28mm games may as well be called "Supermarket Parking Lot Wars" for the sizes of the tables we play on, and If I wanted something more realistic, I'd be playing something like 10mm on my 6'x4' rather than 28/32mm. I'm quite aware that these games are as "realistic" as Battlefield or Call of Duty, and I'm okay with that. It also has the mechanical advantage of being relatively fast for me to paint a unit (for me, anyway!) has my preferred aesthetic of round bases, and works wonderfully for skirmish games, roleplaying and most anything except for WHFB - about which I give no hoots anymore. Of course, if you prefer denser forces - or looser, such as Para's - that's cool as well. Different strokes and all that.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/15 03:14:53


Post by: BeAfraid


You have hit upon my major complaint with the GW miniatures.

Or rather, GW's interpretation of PJ's films.

The ONE COMPLAINT that I DON'T HAVE with Peter Jackson's films is in the visual design work.

Even though I object to much of it as being divergent with Tolkien, it is FREAKING BEAUTIFUL.

Yet GW manages to wreck what beauty is in the design works of PJ's films.

I've painted my own closer to the production stills in the various Weta Production Art collections.

I imagine it was from these that GW took their exaggerated color schemes.

Because the Moria Goblins due have a bit of muddy red cloth on them. It is not the bright red of the GW paint suggestions, but it is red enough to be able to tell it is red even if you lift a frame from the movie, and then do a color grab with Photoshop (which I have done, and was surprised to find reds in their clothing).

Later, when I took Sensation and Percepion at UCLA from one of the guys who has written the book about why we perceive color the way we do (Dr. Phil Kellman), I gained some deep respect for PJ's production skills, at the very least (even if I do think him a narrative butcher, he knows visual design deeply).

But GW has managed to turn the muted worlds of the films into these garish, clown-like displays. They took probably the one thing that Jackson got right, and wrecked even it.

It took me a lot of time, but I have managed to paint most of my GW stuff as it appeared in the films (which included a lot of very minimalist conversions to the plastic models to cut out the undercuts that were missing — you would be utterly stunned at the difference this makes). And if I had not taken about four years off painting when I began those, I would probably not be having to re-discover how to paint now.

Also....

I have a deep admiration for people who can paint miniatures just to get them onto the table.

They seem to enjoy what they do much more than do I.

Maybe I am too close to that "suffering for your art" BS, but that seems to be how I am, regardless of how much I wish that I was otherwise.

Eventually, I plan to do some actual Moria Goblins to go with the Northern Hithaeglir Goblins I have nearly finished (I finally found a chainmail stamp that looks like it is working, which will greatly speed the finishing of the last six to eight of them).

I want to find something that goes with the Balrog Designs of Tom Meier, so that it will indicate "Moria" distinctly, rather than just being generic Goblins.

After that, I need to get the Gondorians and Foradan Éotheod done before I move on to Mordor Orcs, and Dwarves (I am hoping to do some actual Viking Dwarves — for the Longbeards/Durin's Folk, and Rus Inspired Dwarves for the Non-Longbeards of Middle-earth.... I think the Broadbeams or the Firebeards sound like they would be Rus Looking).

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/15 04:52:47


Post by: Azazelx


BeAfraid wrote:

I've painted my own closer to the production stills in the various Weta Production Art collections.
I imagine it was from these that GW took their exaggerated color schemes.

Because the Moria Goblins due have a bit of muddy red cloth on them. It is not the bright red of the GW paint suggestions, but it is red enough to be able to tell it is red even if you lift a frame from the movie, and then do a color grab with Photoshop (which I have done, and was surprised to find reds in their clothing).


Of course GW got their schemes from pre-production images, and perhaps a few stills if they were lucky. It's how all of the toy. etc manufacturers get their images before films come out, and as they need to have product ready for the shelves alongside the films' release, there are often "mistakes" or changes. WItness the original version of Bolg (who even had a GW miniature) and the toy release of Tauriel in Unexpected Journey packaging. Even Hot Toys' The Dark Knight Joker sculpt that was criticised as being "off" was due to working from stills - and if you know anything about Hot Toys and their sculpt accuracy, then you'll understand why I make this point.

GW models also need to pass the "three foot test" (or is it the four foot test?) - which is why Warhammer models are all so bright and colourful, and the LotR models all have their brightness and contrast turned up. Not to mention the palette used by most of the rest of the manufacturers and players of miniature wargame models (even many historicals). To have a "realistic" look, there'd be no point painting eyes on our models as they really come across as a dark blurry patch over a certain difference. The whites of (our) eyes isn't something easily seen over much of a distance, after all.
Spoiler:

The same applies to picking out individual teeth, which so many of us do.

So the manufacturers, their painters and we the consumer all tend to exaggerate. Colours, details, etc.

I hold nothing against you in your quest for perfection. We all paint differently, and it's a personal thing. I paint for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's just to get things finished and onto the table, and I'm happy with how even my minimum standard looks - and let's be blunt - figures like the GW plastic Moria goblins don't really deserve the best that we can do if we also plan to have enough models to game with. On the other hand, other models deserve (and get) much more care, time and detail. The two things that really give me pleasure in my painting are painting fine details, and completing models. When models don't have the scope or worth for the former, I'll take the latter. Obviously for others, the enjoyment is in painting each and every model to their very highest standard and taking their time on them, which has no less worth than any other. I know a guy who takes weeks or longer on each single model and they are very nice indeed. He doesn't really game with them (aside from Zombicide) so for him the painting alone is the thing.

I'd really like to see some of your painted models, in fact. You mentioned elsewhere that you paint about 8 models per night? So it'd be quite interesting to see the difference between those that you speedpaint en masse and those that you really agonise over. We've only seen your Bolg so far, and while the banner looks nice, the rest is a bit bluury and difficult to see properly.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/15 07:06:12


Post by: BeAfraid


The number has gone down to only 2 - 4. And even then I do not completely finish them (leaving some details till I get an entire unit finished).

If it were 15mm, then I can easily do 8 - 16 a day/night, as there are so few 15mm manufacturers who produce miniatures worth a damn (Corvus Belli, early Xyston, and some Museum and Old Glory).

But given that Tom Meir's figures demand a lot of attention, and they have details that can pass the 3' test pretty easily.... I am REALLY struggling with them.

Only the last 12 miniatures have been what I would call really "acceptable" (and they are exactly that, only acceptable), due to having just figured out a series of mistakes I had been making in painting.

But I still need to go back over all 48 of the Orcs/Great-Goblins I have finished so far to get their teeth and lips, eyes, sandals/boots, exposed tunics, and things like belt buckles or knives. And... I have a Great-Goblin general whom I need to finish the modification of before I can even paint him.

There is a thread in the Painting & Modeling section of the forums with the unit of Heavy Great Goblins I am working on (It has the word "Hithaeglir" in it - can't recall the full name of the title, but it is likely I am one of a vanishingly small number of people in this forum to use the word "Hithaeglir" so it shouldn't be hard to find).

And currently, I am working on Rohirrim Light Cavalry, since I can't even work on the mod for the Great-Goblin General until I get my epoxy putty (and I am F***ing BUTCHERING the painting on some horses - apparently I have forgotten completely how to paint Black, Grey, or White horses).

I figure that I can get both the Rohirrim and Goblin Army finished by this summer (If I was content to use individually mounted figures on sabot bases, the Rohirrim would already be finished).... But I can't bring myself to do that... Not to mention the game system would not really work with it. The base sizes are too important.

The plan is to begin promoting the Fantasy Variants for a Historical Rules set(s) that are exclusively for Mass Combat (armies representing 5,000 - 50,000; a 5,000 man army would be about 20 bases, and a 50,000 man army would be 200 bases - My Goblins and Orcs will come close when completed). And to eventually help promote the Middle-earth themed miniatures I am working on.

I wish that I could work faster, so that I could re-build the Hyborian Themed Armies that I used to have.

I had an Undead Army that was gigantic, with some of the coolest commanders ever (Rivalling the Valley of the Four Winds Undead Army that used to be owned by Ian Livingstone). I had the Ral Partha Evil Lord on a Litter, with an Ogre bodyguard, and the Necromancer on a Throne of Bone as the C-C, commanding an Army of Skeletons, Ghouls, and Zombies, with an Evil Wizard and Minions (Ral Partha figures, cannot recall which) that could summon up a unit of around 48 of the Ral Partha Heironymous Bosch demons they used to make (They were a selection of eight bodies, and twelve heads, allowing for a substantial variety).

And then an army of Aquilonians from the Old Armies of the Hyborian Age line, led by King Conan....

Those would probably be a better draw in this day and age.

But I need to just concentrate on the Goblins and Middle-earth themed stuff for the moment (besides, with its incredible lack of "magic" the rules will be easier to deal with).

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/15 19:58:21


Post by: Azazelx


Another unit I've just finished, these guys were supposed to be one of those projects that takes a week, at the most. That of course was sometime between 6 months and a year ago. I honestly can't recall since they've basically been a half-finished fixture of my painting table for a long time now. One of the big hold-ups that became a mental block (and then a wall) was my plan to convert one of their number into a Standard bearer for Kings of War. It took long enough to settle on a colour scheme for the unit - I went with red to get a look that is distinctive from the Warriors of Minas Tirith, especially as I find the stock GW scheme rather boring, even if it does fit in well with the WoMT.



I chose Red for two reasons - since the unit is considered an Elite unit in the GW SBG (despite the background talking of the men of Lossarnach being farmers and such) - and obviously these guys aren't dressed as a levy of farmers, in their fine plate over the chain. The second is because I'm reserving Blue for the substantial number of Dol Amroth guys I'll have when the army is finished, and Green for the small "Arnor" contingent, who will either be renamed for another of the Third Age Fiefdoms when not used in scenario play, or will be a "made up" unit of WoMT guard that represents their former kinsmen by wearing their traditional uniform. I might do something in Yellow/Mustard, but I'm not really a fan of that colour as a unit colour on models for whatever reason. It works for me more as an accent. So while I've been reliably informed this week by BA with his pretty thorough knowledge of Tolkien that red probably wouldn't have been used by Gondorians, I'm going with a combination of artistic licence, the rule of cool (I think they look good) and the fact that they were already painted(!)



I did briefly consider using some form of Tartan for the sashes on these guys, but with the Clansmen of Lamedor also in my painting queue, I decided that I've already got enough figures to make me sick of painting Tartan without starting early here.
Now take a good look at the next picture.



Did you look? The red line on the under-surcoat of the leftmost guy being thicker than the others really does bother me for some reason. Did you even notice it?

Anyway, with the upcoming KoW rules having done away with Standards and Musicians in units as things that have their own rules (since in 1E they were overpriced and pretty much just cancelled each other out) and now just going with "model them however you like", It helped to motivate me to just get these guys off the paint desk and onto the gaming table. I might do a standard bearer for them sometime down the line, but it's not a priority for the moment.



Oh, and the reason that the second and third ranks don't have any static flock/grass on their bases is simple. I ran out of Matt Varnish, so they've got a coat of satin for the time being while I wait for a couple of new cans of anti-shine I ordered to come in. The front rank was finished first, and got some of the Matt before it expired. I'll try to get a whole-army shot featuring the Gondor units I've shown off so far sometime soon. I'm working on some unit leaders for the WoMT Spear and Bowmen that I'm really struggling to get done, and I really want to get those finished first, so hopefully we'll have the army shots soon.

Another unit done! Hooray!





Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/15 20:06:48


Post by: Paradigm


Cool stuff! I'm not sure whether or not I regret not getting any of the non-Dol Amroth Fiefdom stuff; on one hand, they are some cool models (although a fair few I don't like), but on the other, they look easy enough to make from Historicals should I ever fancy trying them.

That, and I've never liked 2-handed weapons in SBG


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/15 23:51:56


Post by: BeAfraid


The Axemen look pretty good.

And... I don't know what this fixation with standards and musicians for each unit is about.

That is one of the aspects of the whole GW game-design philosophy for mass combat that is a bit flawed.

Typically, individual units were not really that affected by standards, and the standard and musician were used for communication, not morale purposes. They did help to establish cadence for drill, but then ONLY in units that were drilled.

In units of irregular, or Undrilled troops... Standards, musicians, etc. had little to no use, other than to identify to the army commander where a unit commander might be.

Also, unit standards were only present in groups of around 250 - 1000 men.

Given the ground scales in games like KoW, or WAB, the number of men in a unit varies depending upon whether you are looking at movement distances, missile weapon ranges, or unit size (with each one giving a different figure:man ratio).

They also tend to over-emphasize depth (another thing that distorts figure:man ratios).

Typical Infantry fought in eight to twelve ranks.

Spearmen fought in twelve to sixteen ranks, and pike in sixteen to thirty-two ranks (thirty-two for marching, sixteen for Melee).

If you have a figure:man ratio of 1:20, this works out to having a normal melee or spear unit being two figures deep, and a pike unit being four.

Yet they pile units five figures deep, when unless you have a figure:man ratio of 1:4, you just won't see that kind of depth, and then the frontage would be much wider (around 25 figures).

But... Back to the Axemen.

They look good, even with the Red Sash. It is minimal enough to not really be that big a deal to the colors.

And... The red stripe on the leftmost Axemen was noticeable, but probably would not be inside a unit.

As for saving Blue for Dol Amroth.

There are other shades of Blue, and Morthond Vale is explicitly in Blue, as would be the Troops of Erech, the seat of the Fief of Morthond. They would be a darker blue than would Dol Amroth, which would probably be slightly greener than the colors used by GW (more of a blue, blue-green).

And Lamedon is supposed to be dressed in Blue and Green.

Gondor's armies are effectively Black-Silver, Blue, Green, and a few Green-Brown in color.

Sort of like a Roman Army from the Early Imperial Roman period being mostly Red, Green, and Yellow (with a big emphasis upon red).

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Paradigm wrote:
Cool stuff! I'm not sure whether or not I regret not getting any of the non-Dol Amroth Fiefdom stuff; on one hand, they are some cool models (although a fair few I don't like), but on the other, they look easy enough to make from Historicals should I ever fancy trying them.
U
That, and I've never liked 2-handed weapons in SBG


Yep... Considering the Axemen of Lossarnach are supposed to be, in effect, Anglo-Saxon Axemen with two-handed axes, they are dead easy to finds Historical proxies for (just make sure that any shields the have are round).

And the Hunters for Pinnath Gelin are easily filled by the Perry Norman/Crusader Archers.

And any sort of Saxon Fyrd would fit the Typical Levy of the larger fiefs (basic unarmored Spearmen). Norman Spearmen might work for the wealthier fiefs, but the shields would need to be replaced if using them with the GW Caras Maedhryn (WoMT).

Really, only the plastic Knights of Dol Amroth and Ithilien Rangers are the only troops that GW makes (made) that are really needed for they fiefs.

The only troops that I can think of that might be a problem are the Archers of Morthond Vale, as they are the only others Longbowmen in the Late-3rd Age Gondor Armies, but English Longbowmen would be wholly inappropriate for them (the styles of the armor and clothing are far too distinct).

I had already suggested using the Late-2nd/Early-3rd Age Numenorean Archers, with a head swap with a WoMT figure to create the Archers of Morthond Vale. Morthond Vale is supposed to be the wealthiest Western Fief of Gondor, as the Western Fiefs are substantially poorer than the Eastern Fiefs, but Morthond is a legacy troop, and a large agricultural center.

But that would be a LOT of work to produce 12 - 24 Archers for a unit.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/16 08:58:59


Post by: Azazelx


BeAfraid wrote:

But given that Tom Meir's figures demand a lot of attention, and they have details that can pass the 3' test pretty easily.... I am REALLY struggling with them.

Only the last 12 miniatures have been what I would call really "acceptable" (and they are exactly that, only acceptable), due to having just figured out a series of mistakes I had been making in painting.

But I still need to go back over all 48 of the Orcs/Great-Goblins I have finished so far to get their teeth and lips, eyes, sandals/boots, exposed tunics, and things like belt buckles or knives. And... I have a Great-Goblin general whom I need to finish the modification of before I can even paint him.

There is a thread in the Painting & Modeling section of the forums with the unit of Heavy Great Goblins I am working on (It has the word "Hithaeglir" in it - can't recall the full name of the title, but it is likely I am one of a vanishingly small number of people in this forum to use the word "Hithaeglir" so it shouldn't be hard to find).


Here it is.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/639074.page#7656255

You might find it more useful to (re-)post it in the P&M blog section, which is much more for ongoing projects, WIPs and the like. I imagine you'd be more likely to attract comments, feedback and encouragement in P&M Blogs than in the general Painting and Modelling section.

I'll give you some feedback here, though - the shields look outstanding - both the fine rune work and the stylised bones, dragons, etc. The blue skin on some of them has a similar effect on me to how the green makes you react - it just looks "wrong" to me. - though I recognise there may be some precedent in the written works for it. The drybrushed skin works well for the rough and dirty nature of orcs, and it also looks like you've used some washes on the orange-skinned ones? They work nicely as a horde. Which ruleset are you planning to use them in, or will they just be for display? Either way - the shields are the absolute highlight of those figures.



And currently, I am working on Rohirrim Light Cavalry, since I can't even work on the mod for the Great-Goblin General until I get my epoxy putty (and I am F***ing BUTCHERING the painting on some horses - apparently I have forgotten completely how to paint Black, Grey, or White horses).


Assuming you've been out of the painting game for some time, I'd recommend picking up the Army Painter wash set. They're very good, and if you're willing to experiment with and use new/unfamiliar products and play with new techniques for things you already (or used to) know how to do, then they're a very worthwhile (and not an expensive) pickup.



The plan is to begin promoting the Fantasy Variants for a Historical Rules set(s) that are exclusively for Mass Combat (armies representing 5,000 - 50,000; a 5,000 man army would be about 20 bases, and a 50,000 man army would be 200 bases - My Goblins and Orcs will come close when completed). And to eventually help promote the Middle-earth themed miniatures I am working on.

I wish that I could work faster, so that I could re-build the Hyborian Themed Armies that I used to have.


It's going to take some time (and money) to build Orcs to that size, let alone Rohirrim as well. Best of luck to you there.



I had an Undead Army that was gigantic,
...
And then an army of Aquilonians from the Old Armies of the Hyborian Age line, led by King Conan....


Obviously your originals won't be coming back in any numbers, but it should be possible to purchase replacements fpr many of the figures. Some will be difficult or near-impossible of course, but it depends on how you wish to spend your resources in the meantime.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Paradigm wrote:
Cool stuff! I'm not sure whether or not I regret not getting any of the non-Dol Amroth Fiefdom stuff; on one hand, they are some cool models (although a fair few I don't like), but on the other, they look easy enough to make from Historicals should I ever fancy trying them.

That, and I've never liked 2-handed weapons in SBG


Heh, you can always pick up a few from the 'Bay if you ever decide you want some of the official models. I found a nice/interesting list on TMP on my other PC of figures people have been using for proxies. I'll link it a little later and reply to the other post then, since I'm about to crash here...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/16 09:12:10


Post by: nerdfest09


Yo Az :-) looking damn good mate! I really rally like the way you did all the wooden things! such a great rich colour on everything! and I'm absolutely awestruck by the sheer amount of, well, stuff in your hobby room! it's beautiful :-)


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/16 09:43:34


Post by: angelofvengeance


Azazel- I think you may have a problem lol. That's a nice big ol' pile of "To Do" haha


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/16 11:42:10


Post by: BeAfraid


 Azazelx wrote:
BeAfraid wrote:

But given that Tom Meir's figures demand a lot of attention, and they have details that can pass the 3' test pretty easily.... I am REALLY struggling with them.

Only the last 12 miniatures have been what I would call really "acceptable" (and they are exactly that, only acceptable), due to having just figured out a series of mistakes I had been making in painting.

But I still need to go back over all 48 of the Orcs/Great-Goblins I have finished so far to get their teeth and lips, eyes, sandals/boots, exposed tunics, and things like belt buckles or knives. And... I have a Great-Goblin general whom I need to finish the modification of before I can even paint him.

There is a thread in the Painting & Modeling section of the forums with the unit of Heavy Great Goblins I am working on (It has the word "Hithaeglir" in it - can't recall the full name of the title, but it is likely I am one of a vanishingly small number of people in this forum to use the word "Hithaeglir" so it shouldn't be hard to find).


Here it is.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/639074.page#7656255

You might find it more useful to (re-)post it in the P&M blog section, which is much more for ongoing projects, WIPs and the like. I imagine you'd be more likely to attract comments, feedback and encouragement in P&M Blogs than in the general Painting and Modelling section.

I'll give you some feedback here, though - the shields look outstanding - both the fine rune work and the stylised bones, dragons, etc. The blue skin on some of them has a similar effect on me to how the green makes you react - it just looks "wrong" to me. - though I recognise there may be some precedent in the written works for it. The drybrushed skin works well for the rough and dirty nature of orcs, and it also looks like you've used some washes on the orange-skinned ones? They work nicely as a horde. Which ruleset are you planning to use them in, or will they just be for display? Either way - the shields are the absolute highlight of those figures.


I have mixed feelings about the Blue Skinned Orcs. I included them purely as an homage to the original Hobbit movie (The Rankin-Bass cartoon), where many of the Goblins were blue-Skinned.

I only have a few of them in each unit with Blue Skin, and in the future I will probably cease doing so, since technically Goblins and Orcs had "Ruddy, yellowish skin."

They did not have the great variation of either the Rankin-Bass animation, nor of Peter Jackson's impetigo infected Orcs and Goblins.

So... Your creeped out feeling is justified. I have it too, to a degree, over there Blue-skinned Orcs.

And... My newer shields are even better than these, as I have a new means of lining the runes.

BTW...

The runes actually say stuff in Black Speech, or corrupted Westron.

Sometimes it is just the initials of the Great-Goblin General (which I would have to go look up), but most are just the equivalent off "SouthCentral Rules!" Or "Elves suck my ....."

As for the rules....

They are intended for a rules set that is similar to DBA/DBM(M) called Hoplon.

It, obviously, does not use individually mounted figures, and as a rules set intended for Historical Miniatures, modified forFantasy, it tends to have more rigorous basing standards for ground scale and figure:men(orc) representation.

The unit is organized, as you see it, for a troop type equivalent to DBA's "warband," which in Hoplon is the deepest normal infantry unit other than Pikes (Deeper even than spears, due to the effects of their fighting style, which tends to deeply penetrate into enemy units, whereas spears must maintain a rigidly fixed formation to make use of depth).

The unit is organized either as the Warband (with nine bases/elements in a 3x3 formation) or as Impetuous Irregular Heavy Infanty (with 8 bases/elements in a 4x2 formation).

The upside of the 4x2 Heavy Infantry is they can get rear support from a unit of Light Infantry Archera to their rear. The Light Infantry Archers begin to the front of the Heay Infantry, and can halt charges into theHeavy Infanty effort falling back through them to support the unit in melee to their rear. This was a very common infantry tactic from the dawn of massed armies up until the firearm replaced close combat weapons.



And currently, I am working on Rohirrim Light Cavalry, since I can't even work on the mod for the Great-Goblin General until I get my epoxy putty (and I am F***ing BUTCHERING the painting on some horses - apparently I have forgotten completely how to paint Black, Grey, or White horses).


Assuming you've been out of the painting game for some time, I'd recommend picking up the Army Painter wash set. They're very good, and if you're willing to experiment with and use new/unfamiliar products and play with new techniques for things you already (or used to) know how to do, then they're a very worthwhile (and not an expensive) pickup.


I already have a set of washes from Reaper that work pretty well.

I am still atruggling with them, trying to get the wash the right shade, as I have got a lot of the washes on these too dark. It wasn't until I did the figures in that link that you see that do not have styrene laminate on the top of the bases that I managed to figure out what the HELL I had been doing wrong up till then with the flesh-tones.

The flesh on those eight, and that on the command group make the flesh on the rest of them look like mud... And even those 12 are not fantastic, just better than I had been doing.

At least now I now what NOT to do when painting flesh.

When I get to the Lesser-Goblins (which are vastly easier to paint), I think the speed and confidence will help get me through the rest of the Great-Goblins faster (After I get this unit of 36 done, I am moving to two units of Lesser-Goblins, which is only 48 figures - the Lesser-Goblin units are roughly the same size in base count, but are Medium Infantry rather than Heavy, and thus have fewer figures per base, which helps to identify what the troop type is).





The plan is to begin promoting the Fantasy Variants for a Historical Rules set(s) that are exclusively for Mass Combat (armies representing 5,000 - 50,000; a 5,000 man army would be about 20 bases, and a 50,000 man army would be 200 bases - My Goblins and Orcs will come close when completed). And to eventually help promote the Middle-earth themed miniatures I am working on.

I wish that I could work faster, so that I could re-build the Hyborian Themed Armies that I used to have.


It's going to take some time (and money) to build Orcs to that size, let alone Rohirrim as well. Best of luck to you there.


I already have all of the figures. I have 48 bases of the Greater-Goblins, and around 64 bases of Lesser-Goblins and Snaga.

But those are purely for the Northern Hithaeglir Goblins (Gundabad to Caradhras, not including Moria).

The largest Orc Army will be the Mordor Army, which I can build with either GW figures (I have a HUGE number of the plastics), even though I would prefer not to, given the makeup of the army.

But I have around 220 bases worth of Orcs, Morgul humans, and Núrnen Humans (48 bases of Morgul Orcs - what people call "Morannon Orcs", 54 bases of Gorgoroth Orcs - your basic "Mordor Orc", 36 bases of Lugbúrz Orcs - Mordor Uruks, and the remainder in unspecified "Orcs" - which I would prefer to have filled out by some Lesser-Orc type, but I have yet to find any.... I will just use hoard-bases of Mordor Orcs as Snaga currently).

And I could build around 96 bases of Rohirrim, but a full Éoherë (the complete Army of the Rohirrim) is 12,000 Riders, which would only be about 72 to 80 bases (depending upon if the Royal Guard Éoreds were used as Outriders - The Outriders are drawn from the Royal Guard - or how many normal Éoreds were used as Scouts). The rules I use (either Hoplon or Fields of Glory have Light Cavalry/Horse base represented as slightly fewer men than a Cavalry base, thus an equal number of Light Cavalry/Horse would be more bases than Cavalry, or Fast Knights (depending upon which system, Rohirrim are either Lancer Cavalry, or Fast Knights - the distinction is entirely definitional). So... I do not need all of the GW figures I have.

But, I have:

• 12 Éored of Royal Guard, as 6 bases/elements of Royal Guard or 8 bases/elements of Outriders
— 18 figures of Lancer Cavalry/Fast Knights, or 16 figures of Light Horse (Royal Guard or Outrider figures)
• 96 Éored of Rohirrim as 48 bases/elements of Rohirrim
— 144 figures of Lancer Cavalry/Fast Knights (Basic Rohirrim figures, excluding the archers, of which every other Base gets one archer figure)
• 12 Éored of Scouts as 16 bases/elements of Light Horse
— 32 figures as typical Light Horse (basic Rohirrim Mounted Archers)
• 1 mass of untrained Éothéod as 12 bases/elements as Undrilled Lancer Cavalry/Fast Knights
— 36 figures of Saxon Cavalry as the untrained mounted Rohirrim/Éotheod.
• Roughly 36 bases of Dismounts/Infantry as Heavy Infantry, and 12 bases of Foot Archers
— 144 figures of Heavy Infantry, and 36 Archer figures as formed archers

I got most of these at a convention where a guy sold a giant garbage bag full of GW LotR figures for $40. I got something like 500 figures in that bag...

I also have roughly equal numbers of Haradrim, Easterlings, and Mordor Orcs (maybe more Mordor Orcs).

So... Painting time is really the only drawback, and I will be eventually selling most of these as DBA/HotT matched sets of armies and replacing them with figures I sculpt.







I had an Undead Army that was gigantic,
...
And then an army of Aquilonians from the Old Armies of the Hyborian Age line, led by King Conan....


Obviously your originals won't be coming back in any numbers, but it should be possible to purchase replacements fpr many of the figures. Some will be difficult or near-impossible of course, but it depends on how you wish to spend your resources in the meantime.


The only figures I will be buying will be undead replacements, but they are pretty far down the line.

My goal right now is to sculpt replacements for the GW Middle-earth figures.

If I continue to paint, I will likely get back up to near my old painting speed, where I will be able to easily knock out one or two units (roughly 36 to 72 figures) a month.

That is roughly half of what I used to be able to produce. If I could get myself to stick to four figures a day, that would be no problem. I am managing to finish four figures whenever I go to paint, but the problem is that I wind up skipping days.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Paradigm wrote:
Cool stuff! I'm not sure whether or not I regret not getting any of the non-Dol Amroth Fiefdom stuff; on one hand, they are some cool models (although a fair few I don't like), but on the other, they look easy enough to make from Historicals should I ever fancy trying them.

That, and I've never liked 2-handed weapons in SBG


Heh, you can always pick up a few from the 'Bay if you ever decide you want some of the official models. I found a nice/interesting list on TMP on my other PC of figures people have been using for proxies. I'll link it a little later and reply to the other post then, since I'm about to crash here...


Something else that occurred to me about the fiefdoms.

Picts or Welsh would make for excellent levies for the Langstrand or Pinnath Gelin. The Welsh or Pict Archers are almost exactly what Tolkien had in mind for what he called the Hill Men of Middle-earth, of which the Pinnath Gelin and Lanstrand are remnant populations.

These would also be excellent miniatures for "bad-guys" from Eriador when Arnor was broken up. Rhudaur would have been composed entirely of these Hill Men. They are simple unarmored, or very lightly armored Spearmen, with a few Archers as Skirmishers (not formed bodies of archers)

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/16 20:31:41


Post by: Da Boss


MB - not to hijack Azazel's thread, but I commented on your PM blog and will follow it if you are going to keep posting pictures. It's hard to get much traction in PM with any kind of fantasy project.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/16 23:44:49


Post by: BeAfraid


 Da Boss wrote:
MB - not to hijack Azazel's thread, but I commented on your PM blog and will follow it if you are going to keep posting pictures. It's hard to get much traction in PM with any kind of fantasy project.


I noticed that they are almost wholly about 40k.

I may eventually surprise them with some 40K miniatures (But, even there I seem to be an outlier, as they are Tau, which I do not see much of on Dakka). I was inspired by the Truescale Marine thread to do some sketching for actual 7ft. tall Marines, and some Power Armor that is based more upon the work on the Lockheed Power-suit (I know Homayoon Kazerooni, the inventor at UCB Berkeley - he is among the possible labs for Graduate school). But... That will have to be done between work on painting my Middle-earth/LotR stuff, and sculpting new Middle-earth/LotR minis.

I am really focused upon providing a line of miniatures that will give a lot more breadth to the GW line of Middle-earth minis, so that there are more miniatures available for the fiefs of Gondor, and for more variety in the current line.

Technically, as I have said, this is really to provide a complete alternative to GW, but I do want them to work with theGW stuff as well.

Of course, some of the stuff has no use except with the GW line, such as the Easterling Chariot I have done (and need to get laid out to 3D print the master of). It was made for solely the GW Easterlings, and would not fit at all with the Easterlings I am working on (Which look like a cross between Hun, Mongol, Bulgar, and Magyar, but with some a-historic components, such as Chariots and Battle-Wagons).

I should have some more photos this next weekend. I am almost finished with this unit of Heavy Great-Goblins, and I have started on two units of Rohirrim (One of Heavy Cavalry, and one of Light Cavalry - 18 figures on 6 bases for the former, and 12 figures on 6 bases for the latter).

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/18 22:48:46


Post by: Azazelx


BeAfraid wrote:
The Axemen look pretty good.
And... I don't know what this fixation with standards and musicians for each unit is about.
That is one of the aspects of the whole GW game-design philosophy for mass combat that is a bit flawed.
Typically, individual units were not really that affected by standards, and the standard and musician were used for communication, not morale purposes. They did help to establish cadence for drill, but then ONLY in units that were drilled.


You're over-thinking it from a "reality" perspective. The fixation with musicians and (especially) standards in fantasy games is simply due to their visual appeal. They look good, they make units stand out and they often provide a little showcase for some nice freehand painting or nice painting onto a drawn or sculpted template. Sashimono on Eldar and Elves (see what I did there?) and personal standards on character models. It's all aesthetics.



But... Back to the Axemen.
They look good, even with the Red Sash. It is minimal enough to not really be that big a deal to the colors.
And... The red stripe on the leftmost Axemen was noticeable, but probably would not be inside a unit.


Thank you, and happily, it's basically invisible inside the unit.



As for saving Blue for Dol Amroth.
There are other shades of Blue, and Morthond Vale is explicitly in Blue, as would be the Troops of Erech, the seat of the Fief of Morthond. They would be a darker blue than would Dol Amroth, which would probably be slightly greener than the colors used by GW (more of a blue, blue-green).
And Lamedon is supposed to be dressed in Blue and Green.
Gondor's armies are effectively Black-Silver, Blue, Green, and a few Green-Brown in color.
Sort of like a Roman Army from the Early Imperial Roman period being mostly Red, Green, and Yellow (with a big emphasis upon red).


I might look at some Sea Blues for DA, though if I did so, I'd want to keep Lamedon away from greens. I'm looking at perhaps doing my Black Numenorians in a deep sea green after seeing these on ToR.

http://s36.photobucket.com/user/joshuar_au/media/1_1.jpg.html

On top of that, I'm already painting my Dark Elves in the blue-green spectrum, with lots of Aqua, Turquoise, Sea Blues and Sea Greens. - a Bright GW-style blue for DA wouldn't look too close to either of the other forces I've described.



 Paradigm wrote:
Cool stuff! I'm not sure whether or not I regret not getting any of the non-Dol Amroth Fiefdom stuff; on one hand, they are some cool models (although a fair few I don't like), but on the other, they look easy enough to make from Historicals should I ever fancy trying them.
U
That, and I've never liked 2-handed weapons in SBG


BeAfraid wrote:

Yep... Considering the Axemen of Lossarnach are supposed to be, in effect, Anglo-Saxon Axemen with two-handed axes, they are dead easy to finds Historical proxies for (just make sure that any shields the have are round).


I'm in two minds about whether to make additional axemen, and if I do so, whether to kitbash ones similar to the official figures I already own, or more "realistic" ones.


BeAfraid wrote:

The only troops that I can think of that might be a problem are the Archers of Morthond Vale, as they are the only others Longbowmen in the Late-3rd Age Gondor Armies, but English Longbowmen would be wholly inappropriate for them (the styles of the armor and clothing are far too distinct).
I had already suggested using the Late-2nd/Early-3rd Age Numenorean Archers, with a head swap with a WoMT figure to create the Archers of Morthond Vale. Morthond Vale is supposed to be the wealthiest Western Fief of Gondor, as the Western Fiefs are substantially poorer than the Eastern Fiefs, but Morthond is a legacy troop, and a large agricultural center.
But that would be a LOT of work to produce 12 - 24 Archers for a unit.
MB


I'm using my ranger-type figures as Rangers of Ithilien to go with Faramir, etc rather than Blackroot Vale (regardless of what the blisters say). I've got a few Rangers of the North figures coming as well (and a couple in hand) but I'm not sure whether to paint them as the Grey Company, given that they were so few and I might not have a regiment of 12 worth of models, or just blend them in with the others, or even to supplement them with metal "Faramir's rangers" models to bulk them up to a regiment size.

As for the others, I don't mind grabbing a few more eBob heads, but I'm not willing to go to any significant amount of work for the Feifdom troops. I'm really looking forward to bringing Gondor to a close, at least temporarily so I can work on other armies more intensely. Any significant expansions to the small 1-unit Fiefdom contingents would be after finishing a few more forces to a point where I'm satisfied, and even then pretty much only ones that are easily achieved.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 nerdfest09 wrote:
Yo Az :-) looking damn good mate! I really rally like the way you did all the wooden things! such a great rich colour on everything! and I'm absolutely awestruck by the sheer amount of, well, stuff in your hobby room! it's beautiful :-)


Thanks Damo! Those Dwarves I got off you are on my hitlist for this year. I'll also continue working through the undead as well. Just got to clean (finish off) all the crap clogging my desk first...


 angelofvengeance wrote:
Azazel- I think you may have a problem lol. That's a nice big ol' pile of "To Do" haha


Yeah, I think there might be a touch of the OCD involved. Ah well, best I can do it try and get as much of it painted as I can!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/19 02:49:56


Post by: BeAfraid


 Azazelx wrote:
BeAfraid wrote:
The Axemen look pretty good.
And... I don't know what this fixation with standards and musicians for each unit is about.
That is one of the aspects of the whole GW game-design philosophy for mass combat that is a bit flawed.
Typically, individual units were not really that affected by standards, and the standard and musician were used for communication, not morale purposes. They did help to establish cadence for drill, but then ONLY in units that were drilled.


You're over-thinking it from a "reality" perspective. The fixation with musicians and (especially) standards in fantasy games is simply due to their visual appeal. They look good, they make units stand out and they often provide a little showcase for some nice freehand painting or nice painting onto a drawn or sculpted template. Sashimono on Eldar and Elves (see what I did there?) and personal standards on character models. It's all aesthetics.


I can completely understand Aesthetics.

I am all about Aesthetics.

But they seem to have rules regarding them that make no sense.

Sashimono on Elves would be heretical though.





As for saving Blue for Dol Amroth.
There are other shades of Blue, and Morthond Vale is explicitly in Blue, as would be the Troops of Erech, the seat of the Fief of Morthond. They would be a darker blue than would Dol Amroth, which would probably be slightly greener than the colors used by GW (more of a blue, blue-green).
And Lamedon is supposed to be dressed in Blue and Green.
Gondor's armies are effectively Black-Silver, Blue, Green, and a few Green-Brown in color.
Sort of like a Roman Army from the Early Imperial Roman period being mostly Red, Green, and Yellow (with a big emphasis upon red).


I might look at some Sea Blues for DA, though if I did so, I'd want to keep Lamedon away from greens. I'm looking at perhaps doing my Black Numenorians in a deep sea green after seeing these on ToR.

http://s36.photobucket.com/user/joshuar_au/media/1_1.jpg.html


OMG! Those Morgul Knights look freaking awesome. I will have to save this photo for when I go to paint my own (I only have 12, but that is about as small a unit as one would have for Morgul Knights).

In the rules I use, that would be the smallest normal unit (4 bases of Knights). The only other option would be for having them as a special troop type, such as a double-based (an 80x120mm double-deep cavalry base) unit in Wedge, which were used by some Medieval Cavalry, where I would only use ten Knights on two bases, arranged in wedges of ten knights on each base, instead of the four of normal knights.



BeAfraid wrote:

The only troops that I can think of that might be a problem are the Archers of Morthond Vale, as they are the only others Longbowmen in the Late-3rd Age Gondor Armies, but English Longbowmen would be wholly inappropriate for them (the styles of the armor and clothing are far too distinct).
I had already suggested using the Late-2nd/Early-3rd Age Numenorean Archers, with a head swap with a WoMT figure to create the Archers of Morthond Vale. Morthond Vale is supposed to be the wealthiest Western Fief of Gondor, as the Western Fiefs are substantially poorer than the Eastern Fiefs, but Morthond is a legacy troop, and a large agricultural center.
But that would be a LOT of work to produce 12 - 24 Archers for a unit.
MB


I'm using my ranger-type figures as Rangers of Ithilien to go with Faramir, etc rather than Blackroot Vale (regardless of what the blisters say). I've got a few Rangers of the North figures coming as well (and a couple in hand) but I'm not sure whether to paint them as the Grey Company, given that they were so few and I might not have a regiment of 12 worth of models, or just blend them in with the others, or even to supplement them with metal "Faramir's rangers" models to bulk them up to a regiment size.

As for the others, I don't mind grabbing a few more eBob heads, but I'm not willing to go to any significant amount of work for the Feifdom troops. I'm really looking forward to bringing Gondor to a close, at least temporarily so I can work on other armies more intensely. Any significant expansions to the small 1-unit Fiefdom contingents would be after finishing a few more forces to a point where I'm satisfied, and even then pretty much only ones that are easily achieved.



For the life of me, I cannot understand why they do not just produce some additional, proper Archer figures that are not Minas Tirith Warriors (Caras Maedhrym - City Warriors).

But... It is GW we are talking about, who would not know a thing about proper historical or mythical representations if it bit them on the A**.

Come to think of it.... I have no use for the Rangers of the North figures I have.

I'll dig them up if you want them. I think I have 8 - 12 of them... I am sure that there is something I need for trade (maybe Easterling Cataphracts - the plastics - or Morgul Knights).

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/19 09:59:03


Post by: Azazelx


BeAfraid wrote:

I can completely understand Aesthetics.

I am all about Aesthetics.

But they seem to have rules regarding them that make no sense.

Sashimono on Elves would be heretical though.


I thought you'd like that one. They could work on WHFB-style elves in some circumstances, though. Anyway, the new version of KoW is streamlining removing rules for non-magical standards and musicians, and they will become an optional thing for those who wish to model them onto their units.



OMG! Those Morgul Knights look freaking awesome. I will have to save this photo for when I go to paint my own (I only have 12, but that is about as small a unit as one would have for Morgul Knights).

In the rules I use, that would be the smallest normal unit (4 bases of Knights). The only other option would be for having them as a special troop type, such as a double-based (an 80x120mm double-deep cavalry base) unit in Wedge, which were used by some Medieval Cavalry, where I would only use ten Knights on two bases, arranged in wedges of ten knights on each base, instead of the four of normal knights.


That they do. There are a bunch of other photos at the url under that pic with other angles, more figures, etc of the Knights.


BeAfraid wrote:

For the life of me, I cannot understand why they do not just produce some additional, proper Archer figures that are not Minas Tirith Warriors (Caras Maedhrym - City Warriors).
But... It is GW we are talking about, who would not know a thing about proper historical or mythical representations if it bit them on the A**.


That one's easy! GW are way past the point where they give two gaks about the Tolkien licence, and only just renewed it to keep anyone else from getting it.



Come to think of it.... I have no use for the Rangers of the North figures I have.
I'll dig them up if you want them. I think I have 8 - 12 of them... I am sure that there is something I need for trade (maybe Easterling Cataphracts - the plastics - or Morgul Knights).


It's a kind offer, but it might be hard for me to find anything that I have which you're interested in that I'm also willing to part with. I've got both Cataphracts and MKs on my own shopping list at the moment! Have a think about what else you might be interested in, and I'll let you know what I have once the two batches of figures with RotN models arrive and I've had a chance to see exactly what I have.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/20 08:21:48


Post by: BeAfraid


i just thought of another reason why Unit Standards bug me.

Because the General's Standard should be the most obvious on the battlefield, and the Unit Standards would be:

1) Much smaller than the General's Standard
2) Different from the General's Standard.
3) And the miniature companies don't seem to make Unit Standards that are different from the General's Standards save for Guals and Romans.

This is one of the things that I have liked about the GW LotR miniatures, that they offer several standards for each force.

For smaller skirmish level games, this works well for "unit" standards (but there are no formed units in a skirmish game, and the standard here would be something that existed for morale purposes.

And for mass combat, this has offered a variety for Army (General's) Standards, for which most rules require 3 - 4 Generals (roughly how many standards exist for each nationality).

It always blew my mind that GW did not push for a more Warmaster/DBX styled mass combat game, where each army was 200 - 300 figures (and, in the case of forces like Hithaeglir Goblins/Orcs, up to 700 figures, like you would find in a Gallic or Early German Army).

They apparently are REALLY BAD at optimization math to know that selling 200 - 300 figures at ¼ of their current price, plus the 50 - 100 figures for a skirmish game would net them more money than selling just 50 or so figures per gamer (per nation) at their current prices.

Plus, units look better when the figures are based for Units, and not individuals.... But I digress...

The standards they make are all really Army Standards, and not Unit Standards.

If you look at the Roman Armies from 300BC to 300AD, the size and type of the Army and Unit Standards did not change much.

In the Maniple/Cohort styled armies, each Maniple or Cohort had a standard that was 8 feet tall, with a cloth with the Maniple or Cohort number on it (and Legion Number).

The Army Standard was always an Eagle, and then another Animal for each Legion (armies were typically Four Legions each), plus the Signifer, all of which were 9 to 12 feet tall. each General would be accompanied by the Animal Standard for his legion.

One can see a similar arrangement in the Ancient Greeks and Alexandrian Armies.

In the Dark Ages, one can see different arrangements, where rather than units, it became Feudal Lords who carried standards, and the units were only really accompanied by a musician, used for signaling, and a small flag on a spear, save for the Generals or Lords commanding the army or one of its wings.

BUT...

If GW were to make decent unit standards for units, instead of army standards, then I would be all over putting standards in each unit.

I may think about doing some conversions of some of the Hithaeglir Lesser Goblin Sculpts I am working on to be used for Unit Standards, since I am sure that there will be people who will want to use the figures for skirmish gaming, and it would also allow for dressing up units in mass combat games.

Only.... Most mass combat games are going to see Orc Armies with about four to eight units of the Lesser Goblins (if they are mixed roughly 50:50 for Lesser:Greater Goblins/Orcs).

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/20 10:24:12


Post by: Azazelx


BeAfraid wrote:
i just thought of another reason why Unit Standards bug me.

Because the General's Standard should be the most obvious on the battlefield, and the Unit Standards would be:

1) Much smaller than the General's Standard
2) Different from the General's Standard.
3) And the miniature companies don't seem to make Unit Standards that are different from the General's Standards save for Guals and Romans.


Again. Over-thinking a 30 year-old Fantasy game that only has vague connections to "realism" and is above all else, a game rather than a tactical simulation and doesn't pretend to be anything else.



It always blew my mind that GW did not push for a more Warmaster/DBX styled mass combat game, where each army was 200 - 300 figures (and, in the case of forces like Hithaeglir Goblins/Orcs, up to 700 figures, like you would find in a Gallic or Early German Army).
They apparently are REALLY BAD at optimization math to know that selling 200 - 300 figures at ¼ of their current price, plus the 50 - 100 figures for a skirmish game would net them more money than selling just 50 or so figures per gamer (per nation) at their current prices.


Nah, despite their endless missteps over the past couple of years, they're very clever (or were, in any case). By dropping the number of figures (and raising the prices) they made armies affordable yet achievable. Then they forgot the former part and have gone into an ugly spiral.
Still, let's look at your examples that you admit will take forever for you to paint. Look at my collection that I'll never paint. More sane people would give up, given these numbers, but by making armies much, much smaller and actually achievable (to complete) they get more players with more armies.



Plus, units look better when the figures are based for Units, and not individuals.... But I digress...


Generally speaking, I agree. I find the utility and practicality of individual bases outweigh the negatives. Theoretically, individual square bases woul dbe a good compromise, but I've hated those compared to the rounds since I started collecting miniatures that had slottabases (though I don't mind them for larger figures and models for some reason - maybe due to a longstanding fondness for Ogres who only came on those) and I'm in a phase of my life where not giving a feth about stuff like that works well for me.



The standards they make are all really Army Standards, and not Unit Standards.
...
If GW were to make decent unit standards for units, instead of army standards, then I would be all over putting standards in each unit.


Again, over-thinking it and over-caring about what GW makes. Really, mate, who gives a feth what GW make? It's a simple enough thing to make small banners, pennants and standards for individual units. Brass rod and foil from a tube of cream, or champagne bottle, or greenstuff. I'd make more myself if I weren't so lazy with too much of a backlog to make me care about converting models.



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/21 02:46:14


Post by: BeAfraid


I don't thin it is over thinking things if one considers what kind of game one wishes to play.

Yes, you can says "It's only a game."

But if that is the case, why are we not just playing dice, or checkers? These are "games" which have abstracted out most representations. They are not intentional representations of some facet of the world which is attempted to be recreated.

Thus, what the figures represent is important, as is how they are represented.

As I pointed out before, a collection of 100 individuals is not really an "Army." Such a collection is just a band of men, who probably are not even acting as a collective unit.

Bands of men behave differently than formed units.

The band of men is a group of individuals, acting individually (many acting as many). Yet the formed unit is a group of individuals, acting as a collective whole or unit (many acting as one).

Thus the means by which an army is represented is important for how a game depicts its nodes of behavioral representation (at the level of the individual, or the level of the unit).

Some people, most primarily historical players, for instance, have made a pretty deep study of the history of warfare, unit behavior, and the effects of an individual as that individual works to affect the unit's behavior (usually to no effect at all).

Most fantasy players I have encountered tend to be unaware of these distinctions, or even why they are important (I was rather surprised to discover that Rick Priestly, even, was largely ignorant of many of the facets of large scale warfare when play testing the expansion of Warmaster Historical).

Thus, it is rare to find, either in games or in reality, a situation where the individual and the unit are both consequential to the outcomes of a game that is intentionally trying to depict armed conflict. Only with the advent of gunpowder did an individual become consequential enough to affect battlefield outcomes.

And thus, you have the distinctions that are important concerning things like Standards, basing of units/figures, ground scales (movement distances and missile weapon ranges), time scales for turns, and morale effects.

These are all very, very different at the level of the individual (or a band of a few hundred individuals) or at the level of a unit (many hundreds to thousands of individuals, mostly similar in arms/armament, in the company of other units of similar size).

Trying to force behavior from one level of scale onto another level of scale creates outcomes that are aberrant. Things that would just not happen, or could never happen.

That might be, to some, considered "Over thinking," yet it is exactly the sort of thing that the vast majority of Historical Gamers tend to ponder as a matter of course. It is the norm there.

And Middle-earth is more just another Historical Period than it is a "Fantasy" world (not that this should make any difference).

The warfare is described in the same fashion one sees in historical epics or accounts of warfare. The tools are identical to historical warfare of the Dark Ages/Medieval periods.

So... Why should thinking about its representation in a game be any different than thinking about the representations of Medieval/Dark Ages warfare?

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/21 04:28:18


Post by: Azazelx


BeAfraid wrote:
I don't thin it is over thinking things if one considers what kind of game one wishes to play.
Yes, you can says "It's only a game."
...
That might be, to some, considered "Over thinking," yet it is exactly the sort of thing that the vast majority of Historical Gamers tend to ponder as a matter of course. It is the norm there.
And Middle-earth is more just another Historical Period than it is a "Fantasy" world (not that this should make any difference).
...
So... Why should thinking about its representation in a game be any different than thinking about the representations of Medieval/Dark Ages warfare?

MB


No, Middle Earth is not "more another historical period". It is indeed a fantasy world. Please stop conflating your favourite series of books as being as important as or equal to real battles and the real world. Like many fictitious works, it might be based on aspects of the real world with real history, but that hardly makes it unique or even more important in any way than any other fictional world or piece of work.

So anyway, you're over-thinking it. Bemoaning why Warhammer Fantasy and its ilk are not like historical simulations is the wrong question. You're getting upset because Call of Duty is not a realistic simulation of Modern Warfare, and asking why Activision don't do it properly. The answer is because it is what it is, and it doesn't pretend to be anything else. They're not doing it wrong, you are. At this point, Middle Earth is another licence. It's another IP. It might be more than that to you, but that's actually all it is. It's like Star Wars, or Star Trek, or the Avengers. It's just a fantasy thing that now has many sets of hands on it. Like Roddenberry's Trek or Lucas' Star Wars. GW didn't make the game you want(ed) Middle Earth to be, and PJ didn't make the film that you wanted to see. Complaining that GW's unit standards in WHFB are "wrong" means you've missed the point. You're complaining that these Lemons aren't sweet and aren't coloured Orange. They're superficially the same, and have some of the same DNA, but they're very different things.

If it's not the game you want them to be, you'll have to make your own. Which obviously won't have the licence or traction that a big company like GW can bring, but if you enjoy it, more power to you. What you desire probably can't easily be represented on a tabletop. Certainly not in 28mm. It's actually probably better suited to a computer game, where scale can scale.



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/03/21 08:09:06


Post by: BeAfraid


I am making an equation of importance.

I am pointing out that Middle-earth's humans (and most other races) behave according to the same rules that govern human behavior otherwise (within constraints of the fact it is a Chivalric Romance, for the most part, but that aspect only concerns a few individuals, and not the population in general of Middle-earth).

The fact that it is not unique is my point.

And the issue of whether things like WHFB is a "historical simulation" is missing the point of what it is intended to be.

And, claiming that something is "just fiction" is an avoidance of the fact that the world's created operate according to pretty fixed rules, and that one cannot simply make up anything they wish about them.

I really don't even think people know what they mean when they point out something is "just fiction." It seems to be a means of avoiding thinking, which is no crime to do.

There have been very few things that have gone wrong because someone tried to think too carefully about an issue.

Do I take Middle-earth more seriously than most?

Absolutely. And for very good reasons.

And it is only "just another license" for solely the properties purchased by Saul Zaendtz, which will not last forever.

I tend to be on the Tolkien Estate's side about what has been done with that license.

Neither I, nor they are against the portrayal of Tolkien's work in any media.

What we have a problem with are the "it's just fiction" attitudes people have about it, as that is insulting to the creator of a work of fiction. And most insulting to works like Middle-earth which occupied Tolkien's entire life, and which concern subjects most people might do well to think on a bit more.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/04/01 05:47:05


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


So, about the banners I am sending you for your LOTR guys...did Middle Earth have a Texas?


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/04/02 00:11:48


Post by: Azazelx


I'm sure there will be a part of Gondor (or at least a unit) that could feasibly use a trisected flag with a star on it. Might need to change the colours slightly though, I imagine.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/04/02 01:00:32


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I was thinking more about belt buckles for your troops.

Banner-sized belt buckles.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/04/02 03:20:56


Post by: Azazelx


I'd probably have to greenstuff some appropriate-sized codpieces.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/04/02 16:44:46


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Azazelx wrote:
I'd probably have to greenstuff some appropriate-sized codpieces.


Why? I said "Texas".


PS: I'm going to have to steal your goblin eye technique. Love the look. Your morghul knights also look great: sinister and colorful at the same time without even using the color red.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/04/03 01:30:12


Post by: Azazelx


Because "banner-sized"? Thanks for the compliments on the gobboes, it seems to approximate the movie's eyes well enough while also standing out. The Morghul Knights aren't mine, sadly. They're a guy called Joshuar_au's and I intend to rip them off as well.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/04/03 05:05:28


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Apparently I need to read your thread a little more closely than I read Lord of the Rings.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/19 09:16:45


Post by: Azazelx


It's been awhile, but I have some more stuff finished and to show (finally!)



I finally finished these Goblin Prowlers last weekend after starting them about a month ago during my Moria Goblin push. Unfortunately, and, I guess rather predictably, I got sick of painting Moria Goblins, and they sank to the back of the front of my queue. I took them to work a couple of times. but there were just too many of them to get anything substantial done, so they sat for a little while. I finally split them into two groups and took them to work last week to get stuff done in a more focused manner, and then finished them off on the weekend.

As with this sort of thing, I put more effort into these than I do with faceless plastics, but still - they're not exactly models that inspire my top-tier paintjobs. I also wanted them to look grotty and grubby, so after my usual highlighting and shading I gave them a glaze/wash of AP Soft Tone. One commentator remarked at one point that they felt that the Moria Goblins were Ochre rather than Green, but my reviewing of both stills as well as and statues and other such merchandise makes them pretty well green. Though it's more of a light olive. I'm using Citadel Foundation Gretchin Green (sadly discontinued) as a base, then highlighting it with blends into VGA Rotting Flesh. They do blend upwards into yellow-greens, but Ochre really seems to be something based off this particular still, which can be found with more than one tone to it anyway. Either way, this tone fits the Moria mob much more than the traditional Goblin Green of my (and many other) WHFB Orcs and Goblins.

Both pics here just pulled from pages on the intarwebs, with no touch-up by myself except for resizing and renaming.


How Green is my Goblin?


All depends on the light or filter, I guess?



In Kings of War they'll be part of my Goblin army, though I couldn't find an appropriate unit for how they're armed - and the actual goblin infantry all seem to be listed as pretty much rabble.



Since this simply won't do, I'll be using the unit profile of a KoM unit - either Foot Guard with 2-handers or perhaps Berserkers - it works legally as the armies can be allied anyway, and it thematically fits the unit. I'll be doing a similar thing with the Gundabad Blackshields when I get around to doing them (probably "regular" Foor Guard). My only real issue is that even Goblin Kings in KoW are Yellow-Bellied, so it'll be a bit odd to have their Elites braver than their leader. Then again... even that kinda works thematically as well if you think about it...



12 for a Regiment of "20", and two leftover for other duties and fill-ins. Unfortunately with only three sculpts there are no fancy-pants models to be banner bearers or leaders, but such is life. Let's face it, I'm way too slack to convert any for this mob! More pics over on the Wordpress for anyone interested in more individual shots rather than the unit-based ones.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/19 09:44:11


Post by: Archer


Having only ever played one game of LOTR (and it was a simple intro game to boot) are Prowlers the elite of the Moria goblins?


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/19 10:03:53


Post by: Azazelx


They're a kind of elite, yes. The problem is that so many of the LotR profiles are scattered across so many supplements, not to mention being affected by the order of release, etc. They can be armed with "normal" goblin weapons or bows as well, but the actual models are just these three sculpts, so I decided to bulk them out enough for a KoW regiment, and it'll also work well enough for any SBG needs I might have.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/19 10:42:44


Post by: Paradigm


Looking good! The skin tone looks fine to me!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/20 04:38:55


Post by: Mort


Very nice Prowlers there! Nicely painted and based! I love seeing pics of painted figs!

Bravo!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/20 07:50:57


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks guys


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/20 15:03:34


Post by: Da Boss


I've fallen behind on my LOTR stuff since life has been a bit hectic the last few weeks. Kids all have their coursework in now though so I will try to get back to it.

You've done a great job on those prowlers. I have a bunch of them, and they're not the easiest models to get a nice job on, but yours is good enough to make me think mine need a repaint. I usually mix skin tones on my LOTR goblins though your olive/green looks really nice.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/20 16:49:34


Post by: judgedoug


the very last (and now being discontinued) army books (Mordor, Moria & Angmar, The Fallen Realms, Kingdoms of Men, and Free Peoples) had all of the stats for everything, released circa 2010-2012.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/21 06:21:00


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks Doug. I think I have several of those - and at least a couple in paper form!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Da Boss wrote:
I've fallen behind on my LOTR stuff since life has been a bit hectic the last few weeks. Kids all have their coursework in now though so I will try to get back to it.

You've done a great job on those prowlers. I have a bunch of them, and they're not the easiest models to get a nice job on, but yours is good enough to make me think mine need a repaint. I usually mix skin tones on my LOTR goblins though your olive/green looks really nice.


Thanks! I know what it's like when work piles up. My own is about to hit one of those times a year when there's lots of extra work to do at home as well as the normal stuff we do in the workplace. I've used mixed skin tones on my LotR Orcs, though I'm going more uniform with the Moria Goblins. Not sure about what I'll do when I get to the Misty Mountains/Hobbit ones yet.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/28 15:54:20


Post by: mdauben


I'm firmly in the "not green!!!" camp when it comes to LOTR goblins, but I can overlook that in the face of a really nice paint job like that.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/28 18:32:04


Post by: angelofvengeance


To be honest, I don't mind how Orcs and Goblins look. I loved the look of them in Peter Jackson's Hobbit & LOTR. But then Green looks pretty mean if it's done right.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/29 19:18:22


Post by: Azazelx


 mdauben wrote:
I'm firmly in the "not green!!!" camp when it comes to LOTR goblins, but I can overlook that in the face of a really nice paint job like that.


The thing is that I'm painting their skin tones based very much off all the media and merch from the film. Much of which was created by or with their involvement of WETA - so it's actually pretty accurate - And nothing to do with GW.

Spoiler:




...etcetera.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/30 06:46:47


Post by: BeAfraid


Only the tones you think are green, "from the movie," aren't.

They are from photos that have had their color values tinkered with post-production.

If you get a screen capture from the Extended Release DVD of the movie, you will see that their skin is a pale yellowish skin-tone.

Take a screen capture, load it into photoshop, and then take a sample of the skin-tone, and then flood an empty file layer with that color and you can see that it is NOT Green very easily.

In fact, you can get the RGB values and then ask a color sampler online "Is this "x" color?" (where x=green in our case) with the given RGB values, and it will give you a Y/N.

A LOT of the online images have been through several different means of getting posted to their websites that do not preserve the actual color values of the image.

This is the difference between your cheaper scanners, or screen-capture programs and the professional quality apps or equipment.

I did not learn this until a couple of years ago, when talking to a professor at UCLA who taught Photoshop and Maya for Production (I audited the classes).

Rather than using ONE photo for the Moria Goblin's skin tones, you might want to take a look at what they look like in natural light.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:


As an example.

Notice that the skin isn't green but is rather a pale ochre color, with some darker impetigo blemish-colored spots.

Again, if you take a color sample of what you think is green, and then flood fill a photoshop layer with it, to get a better idea of what color it really is then you will find that the darker shades (mistaken for green) are actually blue-grey in color.

This will have a tendency of making us THINK we are seeing "greenish," simply because of the illusion of the Mach-bands created by the yellow and blue being next to each other. Like black and white next to each other will create darker and lighter Mach-bands of color at the connection of the two shades (white/black being tints/shades and not "colors"), actual colors will create Mach-bands that are an intersection on the absorption or emission spectrum of the two colors (depending upon the medium). With blue and yellow, this is typically green to our eyes.

So... The green on the Moria Goblins is an optical illusion.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/31 07:25:54


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


So... Painting them green would be a shortcut to reproducing that optical illusion?


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/31 15:01:48


Post by: BeAfraid


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So... Painting them green would be a shortcut to reproducing that optical illusion?


Good point, to a point.

At the level of scale we are talking about, that might be considered as a way to go about portraying them.

But it is not too difficult to reproduce the actual effect using the proper colors.

Using a yellow-ochre base, with a blue-grey wash, and then highlighting back with the yellow-ochre, and then pale-ochre on top of that will produce a similar appearance that will not be so harshly.... Green.

I have spent the last couple of years (or probably decade) trying to reproduce the skin textures of the movies (I thought, for Jackson's first Trilogy, that using Impetigo as a means of showing the Orcs as being "degenerate" was an imaginative move on his part - although perhaps insensitive).

But getting the look to look right has been a real challenge,

Using makeup sponges is a requirement to get the mottling. But it needs to be done sparingly on something that size.

But when successfully done, it provides a vastly more appropriate and appealing (in terms of getting the imagery of the first trilogy, where Jackson did not horribly mutilate Tolkien's works) appearance than doing a straight coloration for the Goblin and Orc flesh.

It is a bit of work, though, which requires more than just the base-color, wash, and highlights.

It requires a sub-base mottling (in a dark color, which will show through the base-color), then the base-color, and then a mottling of a much more contrasting (lighter) color over the areas with the sub-base mottling. Then the normal shading wash, which itself will be "blotted" as it dries by dabbing at the high-areas with the makeup sponge. Then doing a highlighting, and a touch of subtle mottling.

If I was better at shooting video, I would do a tutorial. But so far, I have only got the technique to work on the last seven models I used it on, before giving up on the movie depictions (for the most part - I do intend to return to them eventually) and working on the Thunderbolt Mountain, Ral Partha, and my own sculpts of Orcs/Goblins which adhere more closely to Tolkien's depictions.

The Moria Goblins from the first Jackson movie are perhaps the only depictions of Orcs he get "right" in terms of Tolkien's descriptions from The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and the essay "On Orcs" from The History of Middle-earth, vol X: Morgoth's Ring. They have a pale skin from living underground (as opposed to the ruddy skinned Orcs from Mordor or the Northern Hithaeglir, which tend to live more in the open), and they are more "bent" than his depictions of other Orcs (at the time, it would have been too expensive to give the Orcs a digital makeover to shorten their legs).

Azazel's Moria Goblins are beautiful, and the greenish tint isn't the kiss of death or anything. I am just ridiculously pedantic about Tolkien.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/05/31 16:05:26


Post by: Azazelx


I'm not using one photo. I'm using multiple sources, including still and a number of merchandise items from WETA/Sideshow/etc. There might be more involved ways to get a similar effect, though I can't say I care, though, as my aim is to paint them more-or-less as they appear in the films as quickly and as easily as possible. Or to put the point that Bob just made another way - in the same way that the Xenomorphs from Aliens appear to be silvery-black-grey, the actual film props were "cockroach brown". I'd add some links, but I'm sure you know all about that anyway - and it's easily google-able.

Just as you're quite pedantic about Tolkien and everything related, Moria Goblins are so very low on my "give a gak" scale - so getting them done to this reasonable standard as quickly and easily as possible is my only priority with them. It comes back to my ethos of thousands of models to paint, and only so long left to live. Your suggested method, which might well work nicely, comes under the "too much effort" category given the status of these Goblins in my collection and preference for general consistency amongst them. I'm wanting to clear the decks and have every single one of my Moria (and Gondor) models painted by the end of this year. That's a half-dozen or less sprues worth of the plastics, a few heroes, and a shaman/wardrum that I still need to purchase. Maybe add some Wargs and Warg Riders, which will work with them on the table even if they're not strictly speaking part of the same force, and call it a job done. Then I can concentrate properly on the half-painted Gondorians, and then the unpainted Gondorians. All while concentrating as much as possible on finishing the endless hordes of half-painted models that I've accumulated over the past couple of decades. 7 Months isn't an especially long time for all that...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/06/01 21:37:53


Post by: mdauben


 Azazelx wrote:
 mdauben wrote:
I'm firmly in the "not green!!!" camp when it comes to LOTR goblins, but I can overlook that in the face of a really nice paint job like that.


The thing is that I'm painting their skin tones based very much off all the media and merch from the film. Much of which was created by or with their involvement of WETA - so it's actually pretty accurate - And nothing to do with GW.[/spoiler]

Eh. To me, those examples you posted don't look green. They don't look like "human" skin tones, but they don't look green. I suppose it could be argued that in the "atmospheric" lighting used by Jackson in many of the scenes some of the orcs and/or goblins might appear to be greenish. Maybe I'm just trying to hard not to see them as green? Personally, aside from the Uruk-hai, I try to give my O&G somewhat... realistic(?) skin tones using various paint colors in the brown-tan-khaki-fleshtone range.

In any case, I'm certainly not trying to tell you how to paint your figures, or saying they are "bad" or "wrong" becuse they are green. My original comment was really meant more as a joke, but I guess that didn't come across. Plus, as I said no mater what color their skin is you did a bang-up job on painting those miniatures!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/06/03 07:41:27


Post by: Azazelx


 mdauben wrote:

Eh. To me, those examples you posted don't look green. They don't look like "human" skin tones, but they don't look green. I suppose it could be argued that in the "atmospheric" lighting used by Jackson in many of the scenes some of the orcs and/or goblins might appear to be greenish. Maybe I'm just trying to hard not to see them as green? Personally, aside from the Uruk-hai, I try to give my O&G somewhat... realistic(?) skin tones using various paint colors in the brown-tan-khaki-fleshtone range.

In any case, I'm certainly not trying to tell you how to paint your figures, or saying they are "bad" or "wrong" becuse they are green. My original comment was really meant more as a joke, but I guess that didn't come across. Plus, as I said no mater what color their skin is you did a bang-up job on painting those miniatures!


No worries mate, though the (spoilered) merchandise examples from Sideshow and WETA above are very definitely in the green spectrum in my books - though a far cry from the typical greens used in GW models, which I tried to mimic in a quick and easy fashion with my LotR models. They're a little exaggerated of course, in the same way that my Minas Tirith models have an almost "shining silver" tone of plate, rather than the grimy grey steel of the films. Or my "clean" looking blue-grey Gandalf when compared to the dirty, black-grey Gandalf of the films. (You can see both on the first page of this thread).

Hopefully I can force myself to finish the last few Moria Goblin unit commanders this weekend. Then I can photograph them and drop them into their units' movement trays...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hurk! While cleaning up my painting desk a little looking for orange paint I found a little baggie. Good news and bad news - good news was that it had 2 Moria Goblin Shamen in it (I knew I had some of those little bastards somewhere!) The bad news was 2 more MG Captains (and I'm a little over painting those bloody things.)


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/06/03 14:32:13


Post by: mdauben


 Azazelx wrote:
Hopefully I can force myself to finish the last few Moria Goblin unit commanders this weekend. Then I can photograph them and drop them into their units' movement trays...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hurk! While cleaning up my painting desk a little looking for orange paint I found a little baggie. Good news and bad news - good news was that it had 2 Moria Goblin Shamen in it (I knew I had some of those little bastards somewhere!) The bad news was 2 more MG Captains (and I'm a little over painting those bloody things.)

Heh! I think I've got a double set of the old Moria Goblin plastics from the original FOTR game box, all waiting to be painted. Plus captains, shamans, drummers and the king. I'm not at all looking forward to painting all those little buggers.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/06/04 06:19:38


Post by: Azazelx


I need to buy a drum set or two. Probably one - might convert a second. I'd forgotten about Trolls and even a/the Balrog. I guess i can add those after the mainstay of goblin grunts.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/06/04 07:06:44


Post by: BeAfraid


I just counted my sprues of Moria Goblins, and the loose ones.

I think I am going to need to sell some Moria Goblins, because I found 48 Sprues of Goblins, and around 180 loose ones.

I did not realize that I had bought so many.

And, I do not have nearly enough of the guys with the two-handed axes (I have four of them).

But I do have plenty of Shamans.

I think maybe I will paint up some basic Moria Forces (groups of between 24 and 28 miniatures, including leaders) to sell on eBay.

BTW, the miniatures look good, even with the green skin.

The Moria Goblins remain one of the few things with Jackson's Middle-earth that "work." It is a pity he did not stick with that aesthetic in The Hobbit films.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/06/04 07:48:36


Post by: Azazelx


I've just gone to check the storage tub where my Moria Goblins live. It turns out I have 11 sprues worth, so that makes 132 more of the little bastards. Not nearly as many as you have, but many more than will be fun to paint.

44 each of Spear, Bow and Blade. That makes 4x bases of 11 of each (allowing a metal figure as their leaders) for a total of 12 more regiment bases worth of models, so I'll need to work out how many more captains I need. I should (hopefully) be mostly ok-ish for Swords and Bows, but I know I'll be way short on metal Spear Captains. Funny thing is that 11 sprues works out perfectly for my current method of having all but one of the figures on a base be plastic with a metal "leader". 4 bases of each that I can combine in pairs or quads to use as larger units, plus the stuff that's already painted might well be enough for KoW at least. I like a lot of faceless infantry, but I also need to leave space for the cooler stuff like trolls and wargs. (And maybe that Balrog!)

Annoyingly, both shamans I have are the same sculpt, though I'm not sure how many are considered "normal" or "decent" in either SBG, WotR or KoW goblin armies. I might get the named one if I can find it in metal. The 2h axe Goblins at least come in blisters of 4 now, so they're a little easier to get in numbers.

I do agree with you on the aesthetics of the Moria Goblins to the Misty Mountains ones in the films. I've got 4 sprues of the Hobbit ones, plus whatever you get in the (unopened) boxed game. I'll decide whether to paint them as melanin-deficient albinos or continue with the Moria look sometime down the line. After I've painted all of these ones...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/06/04 09:48:59


Post by: Paradigm


Suddenly my entire Moria force of 24 unpainted Goblins and Durburz doesn't seem so bad...

With the shamans, I'd be sure to give them noticeably different schemes. Not only will it make them less repetitive, but you could then use one as a Gundabad Blackshield shaman, who have a different spell set to the Moria ones. I can't recall which one had Fury, but that's the best. The other had an earthquake spell which was tricky to line up, but could do serious damage in a one-shot wonder.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/06/04 10:54:11


Post by: Azazelx


I may actually have one of those Gundabad Shamans. I've got a few of the Gundabad models, though I've forgotten exactly what. Looks familiar, though.

Still, you can only make one of these little things so distinct.

At least when you're trying to maintain a pretty uniform appearance amongst the entire clan. I'll probably end up with one of the other sculpt, though, if I purchase the overpriced Moria Goblin Commanders box (since I also want the drum). I'll use the drum as an army standard, and have to figure out what I'll use for more of them, since I sure as hell won't be buying two of those boxes at AU prices...



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/07/27 11:40:26


Post by: Azazelx


Long time, no update. Until now.

Showing off some models recently painted, as well as some models less recently so.



These four - 2 of each sculpt - are the Citadel Blackroot Vale Archers Command. Some of the last waves of metals I bought from Maelstrom Games shortly before GW brought into place the ROW embargo onto UK retailers and customers in Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere. They're reasonable models, though the sculpts are nothing special. Solidly on a par with many Historical sculpts - though far more expensive - and not up to the same high standard that much of the LotR range is. It appears that I started them about a year ago, and finally forced myself to get rid of them from my painting desk a couple of weeks ago by knuckling down and completing them. I'm not sure why GW decided to go with the Blackroot Vale moniker, as they're not really correct for those troops anyway and Faramir's Rangers lacked a command section for games like WotR. In my thinking they'll be used (thematically) as part of the wider force of the Rangers of Osgilliath. They were the final models needed to complete these two units for my Kings of War Army of Gondor. I had thought these were painted earlier this year, but looking through my painting list it seems they were actually finished in July last year - the first batch one day off from a year earlier to their commanders.



The troops, made from the Rangers of Middle Earth catch-all plastic box are to be quite blunt - poor models as far as modern HIPS plastic kits go. Softly and mushily detailed, slightly oversized to the rest of the LotR range, and featuring overly-chunky details in their cloaks and clothing. They are a lazy boxed set marketed in a lazy manner - replacing all of the previous metal ranges of rangers. I'm ok with mine - as I got them all second-hand from eBay - and seeing what the sculpts were actually like I decided to paint them with the effort that they deserved. So I used base coats in a series of naturalistic colours, added minimal highlighting, and washed them all in Army Painter Dark Tone (aka Devlan Mud). I did the skin in a speed-paint version of my usual way, and did bother to pick out the eyes, but they're simple wargame models painted as simple wargame models - not as "nice" pieces. They look good enough and appropriate in a block on the table.



I have a bunch of the "proper" metals, and they'll be painted either this year or next since I want to finish off all of my Gondor (and Moria) stuff ASAP, but for the time being they're down the priority list while I continue to try and clear other models from my desk. In the meantime if I get around to playing through the LotR scenarios in the SBG books, there's enough of them painted now to cover most instances from the first several battles they appear in as well as two units for the mass battle KoW tabletop.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/07/31 04:06:33


Post by: Azazelx


More Lord of the Rings stuff today.

I recently finally finished what felt like an endless run of metal Moria Goblins. I know some of them were definitely released as "Captains" while others were probably released as them, and others might have just been released essentially as metal grunts. No matter! If they're metal, I'm promoting them to captains - to keep the unruly and also-endless horde of plastic plebs in line.









Because of the piecemeal nature of how I acquired these figures over quite a few years, there was no strict rhyme nor reason why I have any given models. No attempt has been made to differentiate them from one another, with the exception of slight variations in dirty-hair colours. They'll all stand out well enough when dropped into their own units. I could do with a few more spearmen and a few less swordsmen, for their Kings of War use, but c'est la vie.

I added the little bits of slate in order to more easily distinguish them from their plastic counterparts when playing SBG and for friends less well acquainted with the various sculpts. The slate also serves to tie them in a little better with the model of Durbûrz, who will be one of the leaders of this force in many instances. Stones on bases becoming a mark of leadership - at least of sorts.



The usual group shot of the models from today's update. This many "Captains" will help fill out quite a few units for Kings of War, LotR SBG or anything else I might wish to play using them. I'd have taken pics of them slotted into their units, but it would be long and repetitive, and as such, bloody boring. So I thought I'd skip that.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/03 18:31:22


Post by: mdauben


 Azazelx wrote:
The troops, made from the Rangers of Middle Earth catch-all plastic box are to be quite blunt - poor models as far as modern HIPS plastic kits go.

I have to agree. I decided to go with the old, metal "Faramir's Rangers" sculpts for my own Blackroot Vale archers. Of course they are still bare metal. Honestly, I think your paint job actually makes the Ranger plastics look pretty good.


I recently finally finished what felt like an endless run of metal Moria Goblins.

Looking pretty nice! Love the slightly tarnished look of the armor and the flesh tones have a nice range to them. I need some more of the plastic Moria Goblins. They are just so cheap (and so poor in combat) that you need a lot of them for a game.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/08 02:13:48


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks, the rangers with a bit of paint do come up decently, and they look just fine on the table, but I think the metals will be much nicer. All I have to do is actually paint them... /ahem

As for Goblins, I've gotten some more done recently. These three are the top end of the Moria Goblin Army I've painted up for LotR SBG and KoW (and WotR if I ever actually play it). Durbûrz, the Goblin King of Moria will lead the forces until Golfimbal on Foot and Mounted are finished, and no doubt sometimes even then.



I experimented a little using some Seraphim Sepia wash on his armour to try and give it a "gold" feel, as befits a king. It didn't exactly work for gold, but I didn't want a shiny, nice, bright gold anyway. Still, it looks decent anyway on him, and different enough from the standard muddy-steel look. The rock he's perched on was also the impetus that led to adding bits of slate onto all of the "leader" models in the Goblin army, including all of those Captains I finished recently.



These two were a nice surprise. I thought I had some shamans, somewhere but couldn't for the life of me find them. I gave up and grudgingly resolved to buy some at some stage, and then lucked out and found these guys, along with a bunch of unpainted Gundabad Blackshields. Since I've got two of the same sculpts here, I added some colour to distinguish the two by glazing their armour plates with Army Painter red and green washes. These, as with the sepia washed armour on the King kept the palette within the one chosen for the army while giving both models a bit of individuality.



I still need to buy Drûzhag, The Beastcaller and possibly the Moria Goblin Commanders set for the alternate Shaman model and the Drummers. Aside from those, the Blackshields and the more exciting and exotic models like Trolls, Wargs and the like, it'll just be the 11 sprues of plastic Moria Goblins and I'm done. 132 models. Bleugh. I see some dead-eyed batch painting in my future.



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/12 11:51:20


Post by: Azazelx


The last (currently) painted "proper" model from my Moria army - aside from extra models that will be roped in like my GW Orc & Goblin War Machines, and other monsters from Reaper Bones and such. The first Moria Troll from GW's Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring range. I painted this guy using GW's studio model a general guide, and somewhat followed their scheme and style of blending between the flesh tones and the blackened skin, as well as the flesh between the cracks. Since I followed their scheme it's most likely a fair bit brighter than the actual movie CGI model, but hey.



I added a couple of resin "orc" skulls and a femur from some blister I bought in the mid-90's, along with a Moria Goblin Shield. I'll need to push-mould some replacements!



Aside from obvious uses in LotR games, he's going to act as a Troll Bruiser (hero) to start with. Later on when I've got the other Moria Cave trolls painted, he'll simply become one of a unit, and eventually Buhrdur, the Hill Troll Chieftain will take over the Bruiser role in the army.



The model was painted as a Christmas gift for Marouda back in sometime ..around 2003-5. He's pretty much lived on shelves ever since. I'll get some WIP Moria army shots up soon. Hopefully this weekend.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/12 12:35:38


Post by: Paradigm


Looking great!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/12 15:40:37


Post by: mdauben


Love the cave troll! I've got two of those sitting on my painting table waiting for a paint job, but I was hesitant about that blended flesh.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/12 19:24:43


Post by: judgedoug


TBH your thread is super inspiring and making me start to work on LOTR figs again, Azazelx.

(in fact I am building a Morannon force right now and plan on finishing painting up my Isengard army in the next few weeks)


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/13 11:39:56


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks guys!

mdauben - The blended flesh was less difficult than it looks, but I'd recommend having a bit of a play with some cheaper models to get used to the techniques. I did this guy much later than the Moria Troll, and the techniques and idea were based on the Moria troll. The benefit of course is that this guy is a Bones model and costs about 5 bucks. And thanks to your post prompting my memory, I think this guy will also get some action alongside the Moria goblins now.


https://azazelx.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/golem-and-troll-aka-77168-bones-battleguard-golem-77004-bones-cave-troll/

Actually, Doug - a lot of this is actually your fault since you helping me get those first two army lists drawn up so I could get into KoW is what directly led into the Gondor and Moria stuff getting kicked into gear.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/13 13:42:41


Post by: judgedoug


 Azazelx wrote:
Actually, Doug - a lot of this is actually your fault since you helping me get those first two army lists drawn up so I could get into KoW is what directly led into the Gondor and Moria stuff getting kicked into gear.


Feedback loop! I'm gonna finish my Isengard army. IIRC I had finished painting about 200 warriors, characters/banners/shamans/trolls/etc, crossbowmen, and berserkers and have pikemen, scouts, and wargs left. Should be fun! Hopefully after I post pics that will inspire you to paint through another army...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/14 00:30:10


Post by: Azazelx


Heh, your Bolt Action stuff already did that. I've bought a whole lot of stuff, that's just stalled out due to the same "WTF do I do for a decent starting list?" issue that had me stumped in KoW.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/16 06:23:32


Post by: BeAfraid


Cave troll looks beautiful.

MB


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/17 05:37:27


Post by: Azazelx


Thank you!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/08/17 14:26:14


Post by: judgedoug


 Azazelx wrote:
Heh, your Bolt Action stuff already did that. I've bought a whole lot of stuff, that's just stalled out due to the same "WTF do I do for a decent starting list?" issue that had me stumped in KoW.


dude, I run Bolt Action events around here (ran a tournament on this past Saturday and another one at Guns of August this upcoming Saturday), plus monthly events... so send me details if you need Bolt Action army composition help!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/09/30 00:18:19


Post by: Azazelx


Today we have something that's somewhat recent and still available. I just finished these a couple of days ago, varnished them yesterday and finished the static grass this morning.
Six Black Númenórean Warriors from Citadel's Lord of the Rings range. I don't recall when these were released exactly, but the slotta says 07 so it would have been either 2007 or 2008 most likely. These models are exceptions to the "no starting anything new" rule I've got in place, as the "stuff I can paint 90% of at work" rules overrides the former rule. As I've noted before, a limited palette and a simple job to do (usually highlighting black cloth or painting bone) works well for me at work, and keeps me interested in the hobby when I'd otherwise be tired and (more) burnt out.



I wanted to paint these in a slightly more interesting (to me) manner than the usual, which is essentially dirtied-up steel with black robes, but still retain the proper feel of these Morgul troops. I've seen some really nice looking Morgul Knights (these guys on horses, basically) painted with deep sea green robes, but I wanted to maintain stronger visual ties through their palette being in tune with both the Ringwraiths and also (and more importantly) The Mouth of Sauron figure.



I kept the dark robes, highlighted via blending rather than drybrushing which I've used in the past for similar models. Sadly the highlighting seems to be a bit washed out in these pictures, but something I absolutely wanted to avoid was over-highlighting the robes to light grey or white, which seems to be a common solution for many painted - because the robes are black. I used my usual black palette, of blends between Army Painter Black and VMC - Black Grey and Basalt Grey. Basalt Grey is plenty light enough for these guys.



For the metal areas, I tried a new technique. First I painted the armour and shields with Vallejo Chainmail undercoat with a little bit of VMA Bright Brass mixed in. Two glazes of Citadel Seaphim Sepia Shade, and then an edge highlight of VMA Gold. Sword blades were done with Army Painter Plate Mail, washed with AP Dark Tone, and then edge highlighted with Plate Mail again.

Faces were done with VMC Sand, shaded with a paint wash of Fire Dragon Crimson, which is a very old Citadel paint that's actually a purple shade and then touched up with sand. A bit of black around their mouths and teeth picked out with VGC Elfic Flesh. Leather on the sword handles and shield straps were done with AP Chaotic Red (which is more of a deep red-brown) and washed with AP Strongtone. Done!

The reason I've documented exactly how I painted them here is because I've found that I have literally a dozen more of these guys, as well as a single pair of Castellans of Dol Guldur, who may well get the same paint scheme, given how similar they are in look and feel, and to add more variety to the scant three poses that the Black Númenóreans have.



As you can see, I attempted some minor conversion with these initial six when I got them years ago. I clipped some shoulder spikes from one of the models, and turned one of those spikes into a "rear" headspike on one of the other models. Without going into Chaos Warrior-style spikiness, I'm not sure how I can easily add any differentiation to the dozen others I have of these three sculpts. I'm not willing to go so far as to resculpt parts, and these models aren't exactly conducive to headswaps, so there's probably not a lot going to happen here.

The eventual Army of Mordor will find a home both in the various LotR games, as well as Kings of War. Plenty more to paint before I worry too much about that, though... Perhaps these guys will find their way onto the table alongside Marouda's Undead army as Allied troops.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/10/31 00:18:12


Post by: Azazelx


I had this trio of figures sitting around for a few years, doing nothing. I always found them pretty uninspiring, so really had no plans to do much with them or buy more. I'm not entirely sure why I bought them - probably just collecting the different LotR figures before GW went super-ridiculous with embargoes to AU and such a few years ago. You know how it goes. At some point in the last year or so, I decided that since there were only three of them, and their outfits as seen in the films were basically a mixture of dirty rags, I should paint them quickly and get them done.

So it turns out that painting figures which you don't especially like in an uninspiring colour scheme does nothing for getting them done, so they languished with a few base colours for a year or so. Until recent, when I tried again. That attempt was a failure as well.

So. Thoroughly uninspired, I turned to Google image search to find some inspiration to paint these little suckers and get them off my painting desk. As luck would have it, I found some images from FunkyBrush's painting blog, (posted on Lead-Adventure) with his Dunlanders converted and painted as Celts. This led to some further poking around, and the images on Bennett Blalock-Doane's blog cinched the deal.



I didn't convert the weapons or add shields as FB did, as I tend to like to keep my "first" one of any given figure untouched, unless I purchased it for that purpose, or it's otherwise an irredeemable/seriously flawed sculpt. So these guys are Wildmen of Dunland, and when I have a bunch of my Warlord Games Celts painted up, they will also be Wildmen. Sometimes. Except in games where they're all used as Celts, including the Wildmen. Who knows what the future of the table holds? Kings of War games with Saruman leading his Uruk-Hai army alongside his Celt allies led by Boudicca? Why not? Now I'm aware that painting them as pseudo-Celts is unlikely to be "historically accurate" when it comes to LotR, but the Wildmen are a people I have so very little interest in, that anything that got these painted and out of my way works nicely for me.



I repainted this guy as a ginger, as opposed to the dirty unkempt grey/white beard that he originally had when I was trying to be more movie-accurate to Jackson's films. When I threw that out and decided to go Celt, I almost painted the top guy as blonde, until I remembered the comments about Rohirrim as "straw-heads" in the (books? films?), so I toned it down to brown. Of course, that just applies to these three, and my actual (eventual) Celts will have plenty of blonde and bleached hair amongst them! There is a fourth sculpt that I don't have. I'm not going to chase it, but if I happen to see it for a reasonable/cheap price someday, I'm sure I'll pick it up.



The Celtic theme was a real inspiration. Adding a woven tartan pattern to these guys was a real godsend, as it allowed me to have some fun on them and do something I like with freehand. So ultimately, after pretty much hating these hard-to-paint models for the longest time, they finished up as a trio that I'm really quite happy with and got done in about a day. I like it when that happens. Gotta love the internet for inspiration!




Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/10/31 09:54:02


Post by: Paradigm


Good stuff as usual, Az!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/10/31 14:08:05


Post by: Wolf


Oh they look pretty cool, the tartan is very well done seems fitting for them actually.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/11/03 13:06:39


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks guys. I was glad that finishing these models turned them around for me.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/11/03 15:09:23


Post by: judgedoug


Every time I start slowing down painting my LOTR stuff, I check out your thread and get re-inspired.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/11/03 22:03:56


Post by: mdauben


Some more really good work! Those black Numenoreans are really great looking, and I love the plaid work you did on those Wildmen of Dunland! I was going to do something similar on the kilts of my Clansmen of Lamedon, but now I'm tempted to do my Wildmen the same way.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/11/04 12:41:45


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks guys. I'll be giving my Clansmen some sort of plaid as well, though it'll be much more uniform than the Wildmen. Now here's some more Citadel Black Númenórean Warriors!



These guys are queue-jumpers, via the "stuff I can paint at work" clause - as opposed to stuff I've been working on for ages. That's pretty much it for these ones. I mean, there's not a lot interesting that you can write about more of the same three sculpts you've shown before, all painted more or less identically. These are all new, though. None of the first batch are shown in the mob above. I'll make the lot of them more interesting soon, but for now. this bunch is done!

I'm working on a dozen-ish Mordor Uruk-Hai now. Though they're my current "paint at work" project, so they may be a few weeks before they're done...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/11/04 20:49:50


Post by: Wolf


As a group they look even better I really do enjoy the colours you have chosen for them.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/11/05 15:52:55


Post by: mdauben


 Wolf wrote:
As a group they look even better I really do enjoy the colours you have chosen for them.

I agree about the colors. There's a lot of black-and-steel color schemes in the evil forces. This black-and-gold scheme helps them stand out a bit as elite troops.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/11/05 18:54:44


Post by: Ketara


I really do like those Black Numenoreans. Great job! I may steal the paint scheme myself, in fact...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/11/08 19:57:44


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks for the compliments, guys. I agree on the scheme - I almost did them in black and steel, but wanted to do something a bit different, so went with the dirty brass/gold instead. I saw some other nice schemes with sea green robes and red robes, but wanted to keep them more closely linked to the other Mordor and Black Númenórean-ish stuff I have (including the Ringwraiths and Mouth of Sauron).

Now the new stuff - Black Númenórean Standard Bearers!

Standard Bearers, you ask? Yeah. GW Never made any, but that's not important. They only produced three sculpts of Black Númenórean Warriors, and that was it. As fate would have it, I had two Warriors of the same sculpt who both had their swords broken off. I really wasn't sure what to do with them for awhile. Repairing those swords was right out since drilling into sword blades is a fool's errand. Make a polearm? Drop an axe in there? Bin both and just replace the models entirely? Ah, maybe it'd work to try and put a standard in there?

So I did. It worked.



Originally, I'd hoped to freehand an inscription into the flag, but it was just too small and ragged to do so. I spent a couple of hours working out an appropriate inscription, translating it into a bastardised mixture of Adûnaic and Black Speech (to stand in for Black Adûnaic, and because the available vocabulary of both are very limited) and even worked out how to write them in Adunaroth, thanks to another speculative page online. Then it was too big for the bloody banner, and so I just painted in the Eye of Sauron instead. Blah. Yes, the angle of the drapery and skulls look a little odd. at first. That is until you realise that he's in the midst of thrusting that banner skywards at an angle, and that's why it's all trailing behind at such an angle. You see? Reasons!



But what to add? What to use? Whatever it was, it needed to be spiky and unpleasant. After rejecting the Dark Elven banners that I had, I settled on these two, from the GW Chaos Marauders sprue. Both looked spiky and evil enough to pass for the fallen men of Númenór - and fit in well enough with the GW models. Sure, the skulls are a little big, but they must be from non-humans. Olog-Hai or something, right?



In the end, I managed to turn two junk models into what will become the centrepieces of their unit(s). As with the Wildmen, Golgfag's Ogres and quite a few other models from the last year or so, models I disliked for whatever reason have become models I'm really pleased with - which is always especially satisfying! I'll get some full unit shots of these guys and their cohorts up soon. First I have to finalise their leaders, and GW Mail order sent me the wrong blister, so I need to get that sorted out first. GWAU's customer service is really hard to get hold of these days for some reason - I've been trying to get the guy on the phone for three weeks and only succeeded once, just before he went home on a Friday night over a week ago...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/12/10 04:56:20


Post by: Azazelx


These figures were found in their half-finished state - and finished off about a month ago. They were pretty much the last things I finished before stopping/changing over to the December project. Two of them had broken pikes, but I was unfortunately only able to find one. I re-glued it with plastic cement, and as you can see, the repair is a little rough. The other guy is pretty much sitting out for an indeterminate time until I can either find his pike or care enough to drill it out and replace it with wire. Not anytime soon, then!



No matter - later on when there are many more, the broken-pike guys will just blend into the masses. I'll probably do 15 in the next batch of these for a total of 24, so I can set up either 2 regiments - or more likely - a horde of Pikemen for KoW. Not sure which rules to use for them yet. I'm thinking that their not-Chaos-Warriors list might be more appropriate for filmic LotR Uruks, though the pikes are going to be an issue. I'll figure it out later, I guess. Might have to be a customised unit profile, though I prefer to avoid those.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/12/10 19:53:49


Post by: judgedoug


I am using just Kingdoms of Men for my Isengard Uruk Hai - using the heavy pike phalanx and foot guard as Uruk Pike and Uruk Warriors I think represent the "slightly better than humans" that Uruks are, and since visually there's less models on a 100x80 base (I'm also just keeping my guys on 25mm rounds), then it looks thematically appropriate with 12 Uruks versus other regiments with 15-20 guys in the same footprint.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/12/11 16:27:32


Post by: Zaephyr


Funnily enough, today, after months of deliberation, I finally did a second black wash on the metals of my 45 painted uruks. Essentially it's boltgun metal, mithril silver highlights and 2 badab black washes. I like it and I think I'll like it more when I see them on the battlefield because the metals look closer to the movie's although not as black.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/12/11 19:36:07


Post by: Azazelx


That's the rub with stuff in the movie vs stuff on the table. You can end up with a very and shapeless dark black/brown force with very little to distinguish anything. Looks much more realistic/accurate, but also kinda bland and boring from a painting perspective.



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/12/11 20:35:51


Post by: judgedoug


That's actually what I like about my Uruks, they do look like a mass of grungy armor.

My paint scheme was far simpler, though. Spray paint black, drybrush TAP Plate Mail, paint skin TAP Chaotic Read, paint two shades of brown for leathers/weapon hafts, paint black on hair. Feelin' fancy? Paint the white hand of Saruman. Dip in TAP Dark Tone can. Repeat x 400


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/12/11 20:38:41


Post by: Zaephyr


Even Aragorn himself is very dark throughout the movies. I guess only Gandalf and Legolas are bright colored. And maybe the only true metal colors are on gondorians and easterlings? Personally I prefer "extreme" highlights to achieve on effect rather than highlight naturally.

btw have you noticed how bad the uruk-hai acting was in those amon hen scenes? the dead are moving, they run like they have shat their pants and all kinds of other unprofessional stuff. I can't take it seriously nowadays.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2015/12/11 20:42:04


Post by: judgedoug


 Zaephyr wrote:
btw have you noticed how bad the uruk-hai acting was in those amon hen scenes? the dead are moving, they run like they have shat their pants and all kinds of other unprofessional stuff. I can't take it seriously nowadays.


To be fair, one of the uruk actors literally gets stepped on by Virggo Mortenson...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/02/11 23:33:26


Post by: Azazelx




I had 2 of these Castellan models from ages ago, and always planned to have them lead the Black Númenóreans. I only had two of them, though - and I wanted the third sculpt because a) collector, and b) aesthetics. With all of the changes that GW has been making in the last couple of years, I thought they might be discontinued, especially given the ridiculous prices people are asking for them on eBay. But no - they're still for sale, and indeed - the model I'm after (Sword and Dagger) is specifically still available. It's right there on the picture. A shame, going by the webpage, it seems the third one may have been discontinued as it's not pictured with the "models will be supplied at random" disclaimer that the GW pages used to have.

So I ordered it and received a blister with 2 duplicate sculpts. As in, not only a sculpt that I already had, but two of the same one in the blister. I tried to contact GWAU's mail order number a couple of times a week (when I remembered, after work when I got home early enough) for over a month and could not get an answer or even a callback. I eventually got onto someone, after well over a month and the guy had a bit of attitude, telling me that he'd been moving. Which.. doesn't really explain why nobody answered their customer service line, or made callbacks. Anyway, I explained my issue, and as it was close to 5pm on a Friday, he said that it'd be hard for him to get down to the warehouse to check, because they were finishing up for the week.



So back to the same, and a couple of weeks later I managed to have the phone answer there again, and it was a different guy who was much more helpful. I explained my issue again and he suggested that I could look on a swap group on facebook, or similar. When I pressed him and also let him know that the blister was still unopened (we're a couple of months after receiving it at this stage) and told him that I really wasn't keen on paying more postage to get the figures that are pictured on the website, he gave me the details to return them and said that he'd have a look with the warehouse guys.

Though by now we're into the start of December, and the craziness that happens at that time of year, so I actually mailed them back in the quiet time between Christmas and New Year's. A couple of weeks later (completely understandable given the time of year and what it does to the post) I received a little box in the post with a blister containing the correct model. So thank you to Sam at GWAU for sorting it out in the end. I do wonder what's happening there though - as on the rare occasions I've had issues I needed to contact mail order for in the past they answered the phone pretty quickly, and things were sorted with lightning speed (and maybe a photo emailed to show the exact issue). Hopefully they can get it back together.



So now we roll around to February, and the 6-Month Tale of Gamers Challenge over on Dakka that I've been coordinating. My "pledges" are to complete a unit/hero/warmachine/monster/etc each month for both Undead and Gondor. Now complete means just that - and it means I can motivate myself to finish off figures that have been part-painted for ages, or the last couple of models from a unit and so forth. While painting their robes on my lunch break at work the other day I realised that these guys finish off the two units of Castellans/Black Númenóreans that I started months ago, and so they count - since they'll be used in Marouda's Undead army with the Soul Reaver Infantry statline - essentially Vampiric infantry. I think they work well as Medieval-Fantasy Vampiric types who will drain your soul rather than just your blood. Not all vampires have to be 19th century aristocrats, after all....



I painted the Númenóreans some time ago last year over a period of time. I shared the first few on the blog, as well as the standard bearer conversions (not much of a conversion, but hey). Later on I finished even more of the warriors but didn't feel a need to write another post showing off identical models to the ones I'd already shown.



The eagle-eyed amongst you will note that there's one guy missing from the back rank in the second regiment. I appear to have misplaced one of my Black Númenórean Warriors. Funny how on certain forums whenever I point out some minor thing like that, there's always some socially-inept person that feels a need to post "I saw that". Well, between the Reaper forums and the LotR ones, anyway. Yeah, thanks. Well done you. So I'll have to either find the little bastard, or failing that - locate another Black Númenórean and paint him to finish the unit. Again.

Let's face it though, even I think that painting 2 non-character models in a month for half of a painting challenge is a bit pissweak, so I'll be trying to paint that RPE Skeleton Ballista I showed the other day on my Wordpress blog as well for the Undead component.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/02/24 23:20:24


Post by: judgedoug


Wow, those Castellans look great - and you convinced me to order a couple packs from GWUS.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/03/20 04:50:35


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks Doug - they are some very nice models.

Today I have some simple conversions of the Warriors of Minas Tirith models to Dol Amroth.



I'd originally planned (years ago) to file off the white trees on the plastic WoMT breastplates and shields. I've decided to leave the breastplates be, as Dol Amroth is of course a Fiefdom of Gondor, so I'll leave them on the breastplates but remove them from shields when I get to the swordsmen. Unlike the single units of troops and hero from Lossarnach and (yet to be painted) Lamedon, the Dol Amroth contingent will number a reasonable number of units. At least one each of Archers, Shield Wall, Spearmen plus Swan Knights mounted and on foot, plus of course Prince Imrahil. I may expand it further using more eBob heads on Perry Miniatures Foot Knight bodies, but I'll worry about that once I've got all the official models painted. In fact, I'm using the first batch of heads I ordered from eBob, and having placed another order (literally 5 years to the day later) on Feb 5th this year, for 6 more sets of heads, a trio of spiders and the lovely "Lady Greensleeves" sculpt. I thought it reasonable on March 6th to send a followup email since I've not had anything arrive nor had I heard anything since placing my order. Usually stuff takes 1-2 weeks to arrive from the UK, with 3 weeks being for outlier cases. So I sent him an email...

I received the two word reply to my query on 8th March. "sent today". So a month and three days after payment I had to prompt him to send my stuff. He even quoted the "your payment has been received" email from PayPal that reminds him to send product within 7 days. I guess caveat emptor applies here, and that's the kind of gakky service we can expect from eBob. I decided to order a few more head sprues from him and make sure they get posted before I publish this post. So I ordered a few more head sprues and followed up by immediately emailing him to say I expected that they'd be sent out a lot quicker than a month. He sent them the following day. I guess the lesson there is if you choose to order anything from him, email him within a few days to ensure that your stuff actually gets sent.



The paint scheme is the usual base metal - Army Painter Silver(?) (it's an unlabelled metal paint from the first KoW KS), highlighted with VMA Steel. I then vary the usual by washing with a 1:1 mix of AP Dark Tone and Blue Tone wash to give a subtle Blue Steel look.



P3 Cygnar Blue Highlight as the base for the cloth parts, highlighted with P3 Arcane Blue and shaded with a wash of VMC Dark Prussian Blue (I think - the label is unmarked). Leather straps and Boots - and Leggings are painted as a dyed blue, so VMC Dark Prussian Blue with a touch of old-Citadel Ultramarine Blue for highlight, and slightly-thinned AP Dark Tone wash. And yes, I've written down all the paints here so I can easily replicate the scheme with later units. A lot of people paint their Dol Amroth models with white cloth and blue accents. I may do so for the SkoDA and other nobles, but for the common troops of Dol Amroth, I wanted their livery to be Blue with white accents, and the dark, almost black blue to tie in more strongly with their brethren from Minas Tirith as well as the blue to keep them close to their own noble-born elites. The swan crests on their helms were painted in VMA Steel and washed with thinned down AP Blue wash.



You can see just how well the eBob heads fit onto the plastic WoMT models.

So these eight make a small unit for SBG, that can simply use the WoMT profiles, and in KoW they make for a troop of Archers, again using the KoM profiles. I'll use different statlines for some other Dol Amroth troops, but not these guys.



Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/03/20 16:54:03


Post by: Manchu


Your painting is really ace plus those helmets really turned out nicely. Those tassets are so distinctively Gondorian, it's hard to overcome - I think even if you had filed off the White Tree. As for the blue-trimmed-white, that nicely matches the caparisons of the knights' steeds.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/03/21 00:58:48


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks! I'm happy for them to still look very much Gondorian as long as they have their own distinctive look to them from the Minas Tirith troops as well, partly from paint and partly from the headswaps - which I'll carry across to the other DA models. You're right about the white trim - stolen from the GW SKoDA paint scheme.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/04/24 02:39:55


Post by: Azazelx




I needed to paint something different to plastic WoMT this month, so I looked through the Gondor figure box, and pulled out something both similar but different to the usual grind. My small collection of Osgiliath Veterans. Originally, when they were released, I didn't much like the models and got just a few to use as alternative sword captains, but more recently, I managed to pick up a few more so that I could make a small but functional unit.



I know they're pretty good in SBG when led by Faramir, but I don't want to purchase more of them, as they're not cheap in metal from GW or eBay - nor do I especially want to convert a bunch of the plastic WoMT into additional OVs. I figure this single unit will do me for general gaming, and if I ever need more to use in scenario, I can use regular WoMT as proxies.



Since these Veterans have been in the field for some time, I approached painting them in a slightly different way to how I typically paint WoMT, while keeping to a similar palette. Instead of starting with black and highlighting with AP Wolf Grey, which is a blue-grey; I started with VMC Dark Grey and added a small amount of AP uniform grey for the highlights, which is much more of a neutral grey. The leather straps were done in the usual WoMT way, but all of the extra cloth parts, such as cloaks, bedrolls, satchels and shoulder bags and extra belt pouch bags were painted in a mixture of colours taken from the palette that I used for my Rangers of Gondor, since those guys will at times be used for Faramir's rangers (along with those of Blackroot Vale and of course, the Grey Company!)



The metal of their armour was painted differently as well. I started with VGA 72.754 Gunmetal, highlighted with VMA 71.072 Gun and a very subtle highlight of Citadel Ironbreaker. After I completed my highlighting and shading of the entire model, I gave them a wash of 1:1:2 AP Dark Tone (black), AP Strong Tone (dark brown) and Windex as my thinning medium. This added a touch of grime to the models, to represent them having been out in the field for some time. The final touch (aside from flesh and hair) was a very subtle highlight of the wings embossed on the helm with Ironbreaker, to help reinforce the faces of the models as their focal point.



This shows the different tonal qualities of the various Gondor models. Dol Amroth (blue tint, brighter metal), Minas Tirith (black tint, mid-tone metal), Osgiliath Veterans (brown tint, darker metal), Ranger (natural tones)



It turned out that I only had 10 Osgiliath Veterans, so when I spent some time late last year trying to sort out my unpainted Gondor models, I decided to give them a couple of models to act as command, rather than buy more models. I threw a Gondor standard bearer and a spare Faramir into a baggie, and job done! I've got another of the same Faramir model, which I'd painted several years ago, after I'd started this blog but before I started really updating it with any frequency. He was of course painted to fit in as a commander of the Gondor army, and occasionally managed to take the field. It can be seen here. This time, I wanted the Faramir model to be very much part of the Veteran unit, and so he was painted with the same palette of greys, with just a touch of AP Wolf Grey mixed into the top highlights. I also added some gold trim on his armour and the white trim to his skirts to help distinguish him as the unit commander on the tabletop. While the Faramir is a nicely understated model, it's not really a stand-out model for someone as important as Faramir.



I found the Standard much more interesting as a model. Once again, greys are the base, and browns the additive colour rather than blue-grey. I added a bread bag from a Warlord German to his hip to help him fit in with the troops, and also took his metal head off and replaced it with a Warlord Roman Veteran head, to which I added a touch of bloodstain on his bandanna. I also painted him with blonde hair and attempted to create a stark, greasy look with a dark wash. (As we know, greasy, dirty blonde hair just ends up looking brown, but this is miniature painting.) And yeah, I know Osgiliath Veterans can't technically have a standard bearer, but he can easily be used as a Spearman, given the pointy end on that banner pole!



The "Kings of War" style unit photos this time show off one the different configurations that these guys can be set up in, in order to bring one type of weapon or another to the fore, should I decide to vary the unit profile. Just swap the spears or swords or bows to the front!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/04/24 14:50:56


Post by: Slinky


I really like them, I think you've got the "veteran" feel right


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/04/24 20:03:11


Post by: Iron_Captain


Agreed. Great job, especially on the standar bearer. I really like the gold trim on Faramir as well.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/04/27 09:37:19


Post by: Azazelx


Thank you, gents!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/04/27 14:23:21


Post by: Commodus Leitdorf


Everything here is totally awesome! Good job!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/04/27 17:13:01


Post by: Manchu


Such characterful miniatures! You did an amazing job, Azazelx.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/09 15:07:50


Post by: mdauben


You did a really outstanding job on what many would consider a rather obscure and unimportant unit. Its just full of character now and you can be proud to field those figures.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/09 17:33:54


Post by: Theophony


Theophony wrote: Fellow DakkaDakka users,

Azazelx has asked me to stop in here to speak for him as he has been dealing with an unexpected family tragedy over the last week. For those who have been following for the past few months you may have read in his blog, or here about the ongoing health concerns of his father, but this event is not related to those occurrences and was a severe shock to him and his loved ones. He has returned back to work and has begun browsing the threads again, but is not ready to participate in discussions right now so it may be a short time until we see or hear from him. He will elaborate when he can but currently he just needs to get back to normal so he will not be updating his thread or the tale of 35 gamers thread for a short time.

He does not want to tie up his blog with well wishes or condolences from everyone, though he know that we as fellow DakkaDakka members are right behind him 100%. He also does not feel like elaborating at the moment as to what has transpired, or even to answer well meaning questions as he is trying to make sense of it himself currently.

Thank You everyone for your thoughts and prayers at this time. I'm sure Azazelx appreciates them. In his absence lets fill some pages of DakkaDakka threads with some great eye candy for him to view when he needs to take his mind off of his current situation.

Theophony
]


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/18 11:08:44


Post by: Azazelx


Even as Gandalf and Pippin ran forward, they heard from within the house of the dead the voice of Denethor crying : 'Haste, haste! Do as I have bidden! Slay me this renegade! Or must I do so myself?' Thereupon the door which Beregond held shut with his left hand was wrenched open, and there behind him stood the Lord of the City, tall and fell; a light like flame was in his eyes, and he held a drawn sword.


This model is of course a likeness of John Noble as Denethor, Steward of Gondor. Sculpted by one of the Perrys from memory, this figure was released shortly after Return of the King was released, and is now sadly discontinued. It's quite a good likeness, especially given the truescale nature of the model.


As Denethor is a rather understated model despite being fairly important in the story of LotR, I wanted to make him stand out in some way - even if he's far from a must-have combat machine like his sons. I attempted to do so by mounting him on a back-to-base-ix resin base to raise his stature a little above the rank and file of Gondor. I painted the base as stained white stone - perhaps some of the ruins of Osgilliath? A little bit of ivy and a couple of tufts add the little colour to what is otherwise a very monochromatic model.


I started painting Denethor sometime years ago, but never really got far beyond the black. Last year, I started working on him and got his cloak to a point where I was quite happy with it. I then gave it a black wash to bring it back down and unify it, which just fething wrecked the whole thing. You know when you hear about people having a bad mistake happen to a model and then throwing it in the bin? That kind of thing. More recently, I worked on him a little again, this time stalling out due to still being frustrated by the wash wrecking it last time, but it's been sitting on my painting desk, and is one of the models I had specifically in mind when starting this challenge. Given the month that it's been, I decided to work on Denethor this last weekend so I'd have something "legal" finished for the painting challenge in the Gondor category..



I've tried to replicate Noble's 5 o'clock shadow and also distinguish the shades of black/grey/white between his cloak, the fur lining and his hair. Noble can look quite pale and gaunt in colour in some stills from the film, though in others his face is much closer to normal. I tried replicating that, but I felt that he was already monochrome enough, so I added a subtle amount of colour back into his face.

Aside from obvious scenario-based uses in LotR games, Denethor can also make an appearance with my Army of Gondor on the Kings of War battlefield. Possibly as a "Wizard", where the Fireball spell could represent Denethor directing artillery fire onto his chosen target, Bane-Chant representing his oratory driving his troops to greater valour on the field of battle, and so forth...


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/18 12:04:31


Post by: Slinky


The stubble effect worked really well, it's a nice little model!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/18 16:19:44


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Gorgeous work... and a haunting reminder of how amazing the Perry bros are. :-)


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/19 01:36:28


Post by: StormKing


Really liking the cloaks on those minis!
Was thinking of picking up some of the Nazgual minis (partial to the Dark Marshall but hes way more than the others for some reason...might get the Betrayer!) definetly going to try and replicate a similar build up on the cloaks gradually getting into lighter greys.
I had the witch king on foot (still do) and was actually one of my first minis ever and just sprayed black primer and I think I just dry brushed him with a grey colour...Still like that model and paint job mostly for nostalgia purposes anyways (at least the paint job hahah)


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/20 00:21:15


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks! I didn't really like the Denethor model until it was finished. It's one of those odd ducks like that.

I've got a bunch of Nazgul that I painted years ago, pretty much by drybrushing greys over black (and then some dusty sand at the end). They still look quite decent, and they certainly don't need to be stripped down. The biggest issue with my un- and half-painted extra Nazgul there is making them look consistent with their older brethren.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/20 08:36:15


Post by: Wolf


Very nice stubble effect going on there, how did you achieve that if you don't mind my asking ?

I have a Denethor waiting to be painting and I'd love to try it out !


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/21 13:10:47


Post by: Azazelx


Thanks Wolf. I first "finished" the face as a "clean" face, then I thinned down a tiny bit of Wolf Grey with a touch of saliva (it's got an elastic quality to it that real paint mediums don't have, so I use it sometimes.) and just went over the top of the "beardline" very carefully.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/21 14:04:46


Post by: Dark Apostle 666


It's a really good likeness - and given the results, I'll have to give your saliva solution method a go sometime. Nice job!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/21 16:24:25


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 Azazelx wrote:
Thanks Wolf. I first "finished" the face as a "clean" face, then I thinned down a tiny bit of Wolf Grey with a touch of saliva (it's got an elastic quality to it that real paint mediums don't have, so I use it sometimes.) and just went over the top of the "beardline" very carefully.


Gross... but awesome! :-)


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/05/21 21:45:55


Post by: Wolf


 Azazelx wrote:
Thanks Wolf. I first "finished" the face as a "clean" face, then I thinned down a tiny bit of Wolf Grey with a touch of saliva (it's got an elastic quality to it that real paint mediums don't have, so I use it sometimes.) and just went over the top of the "beardline" very carefully.


Ok so paint as normal, and spit grey paint at his face ? Got it ! Thanks though I will certainly try this out


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/07/14 02:02:00


Post by: Azazelx




This is essentially a "State of the Army" post, showing off all of the completed elements of my Gondor Army at present, which I've been properly working on over the last two or so years, with a bigger focus during the last 6 months and the painting challenge that I keep harping on about. Models that aren't yet completed are missing from the photos, so things like the Cavalry units that are part-painted will have to wait for an update down the line. While I don't intend to buy any more Gondor models, with the possible exception of any new heroes that GW might release or the odd figure to "clean up" and finalise a more difficult unit (Men at Arms of Dol Amroth, Warriors of Arnor etc) I've got all of the models for this army in my possession. I just need to paint them!



The army is nominally set up as a Kings of War force, but obviously can be used in LotR SBG, or with a few tweaks in War of the Ring (those bloody bases!) We've even used a small number of them in SAGA. Most Minas Tirith/Gondor models generally aren't very exciting at all as individuals, even with a decent amount of work put into them, but they do have a nice effect ranked up en masse.

I'm not up for a lot of typing right now, so I think I'll go with more of a "show, don't tell" for the rest of this post.

















Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/07/14 07:55:35


Post by: Slinky


Marvellous!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/07/14 13:14:21


Post by: Dark Apostle 666


Wow, that is a seriously good looking force - I have to agree with you about the Gondor range, what they lack in individual character, they make up for when assembled en mass.
And I really like how your fiefdoms and rangers stand out, but still fit in as part of the same army, that's not always an easy effect to achieve!
Thoroughly excellent.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/07/14 14:04:24


Post by: mdauben


Really impressive Minas Tirith force. I love seeing whole armies painted up like this.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/07/15 01:37:45


Post by: Freytag93


Wow. The army looks great! It's definitely inspiring to look through this thread as I start my own journey into LotR.

Great work mate


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/07/16 01:15:46


Post by: Azazelx


Thank you all very much for the kind words.



These three models were painted some time ago, around 2005 - give or take a few years, and long before blogging was a thing to me. They've recently been drafted into Marouda's Kings of War Undead force as Soul Reaver Cavalry - that is to say Vampiric Cavalry, which seems about as reasonable an approximation of Nazgûl as you can get within the Army list. These three represent a "troop" of Vampire Knights, which would ordinarily be made of 5 models. Works well enough for me!



So while the models are old, and their paint is old, what's new is that I've gotten some custom-cut MDF and been able to make a unit base for them, in much the same way as I did with the Swarms that I painted recently. I think it makes them look quite nice, and certainly looks better than having them blu-taced down to a bare piece of MDF. I don't believe I've shown these models before, so it's all good.



For now, the Nazgûl will reside in the Undead Army, but at some stage they'll be split off into their own Mordor force - When I have enough Mordor models painted to field them as a reasonable army in their own right.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/07/17 18:59:25


Post by: mdauben


Love the work on the mounted Ring Wraiths. While technically their horses are supposed to be all black, I did mine that way and it tends to produce a rather dull, monochromatic miniatures. I think your brown horses look better.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2016/07/24 22:42:44


Post by: Davor


Wow. Great work there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow. Great work there.


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2017/07/06 01:33:05


Post by: Azazelx


It's been awhile since I finished any new LotR figures, so awhile since I posted anything new in here. So here's something new!
Also, I'm slowly repairing the damage that Photobucket did to my posts, so the mangled stuff above will be sorted soon(ish). I'm working backwards from the most recent posts to the oldest...



"He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace..."
Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers Book 4 Ch. 3 "Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit"



Amongst my many projects that are theoretically on the go at any given time are usually a bunch of "one at a time"-type things, where I have randomly gotten enthusiastic about a model or even a unit from an army that I haven't really even begun on, and started painting them. These Harad Abrakhân Guard are an example of that. They took me about 6 months, on and off to get painted - mostly because I'm easily distracted and small amounts of indecision on how to paint an accoutrement can result in literally months of delay before getting back to a model.



The colour scheme was pretty simple. I wanted to avoid the purple and turquoise seen in GW's scheme entirely, and instead go for black with a splash of bright red on the sash. I think black keffiyeh/shemaghs always look sharp, so again, that was a no-brainer for me. A bit of gold retained for bling, and the clothing looks pretty good. I painted the flesh tones in a light brown tone, similar to people of Lebanese and Jordanian descent that I work with, since unlike GW until just a couple of years ago, I don't think everyone in the world has caucasian skin pigmentation. My Tallarn (if I ever finish them) have similar skin colouration to my Haradrim. (I get the TE Lawrence/SAS reference, but I prefer the Bedouin one for them.)



As with a lot of the LotR metal range, these figures do suffer a bit from GW's "three poses only!" policy, but mixed together in a unit they still manage to look decent.





Finally, the Kings of War-oriented unit shots. Until I get a lot more Haradrim painted - which won't be anytime soon - these guys will get shoved into one KoW force or another as a unit of some sort of elite humans who hit hard but have light armour. I may also be able to use them as proxies for something in games of SAGA - Crescent and the Cross. Honestly, I haven't looked hard at that since I've got very little Crusade-Era stuff painted right now.

But hey - these guys are done, and I think they turned out pretty well, so it's all good!


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2017/07/06 15:38:09


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


Look very good, I like them indeed. The muted tones work well for Abrakhan Guard. Any plans on adding the Golden King? Slighty off topic question, but do you play the SBG or just KoW with them?


Azazel's semi-random LotR miniatures thread. @ 2017/07/27 22:19:01


Post by: Azazelx


I do have the Golden King, though no plans to paint him up especially soon. I almost started on my Watchers of Karna but decided I need to get a whole lot more of my half-painted stuff finished before starting on a batch of brand-new models. I don't get to play SBG or KoW much these days, though I (theoretically) play both. I'd got the idea to paint all of the models from the scenario books in order, which is a project I need to get back to. Though on a very related note - since the dark riders turn up very early on - we have this guy, finally done!



The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.
Old fool!” he said. “Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!” And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.
– Gandalf’s encounter with The Witch-King of Angmar in The Return of the King, The Siege of Gondor

This model of The Witch King was one of the many that sat around half-painted for a measure of years before finally seeing completion at the end of one of my occasional bouts of focused “Just finish that effing thing!” a couple of months ago. With the chaos that has been happening lately, it took sometime to be photographed, and time again before being cropped, and now, finally posted. These were actually the photos I was working on when I noticed the hard drive beginning to fail a couple of weeks ago, as they weren’t saving first time and easily.



As with the others that I’ve painted previously, I’ve taken some liberties – the Witch-King’s steed here is dark brown rather than black, and I’ve also added the beaten copper to the horse’s icon, both in an attempt to add some visual interest to what could have been a more accurate, but far more boring paint job. Similarly, I’ve used weathering powders mixed with matte varnish to add a dirty effect to the bottom hem of his robes. This leaves me with 5 more “basic” mounted Nazgûl to paint in order to represent The Nine in games of SBG and whatnot, though naturally, I have a couple of mounted extras – because that happens when you buy large collections on eBay, plus the foot versions, and a fell beast or two, and also most (all?) of the “Named Character” versions of the Nazgûl that Games Workshop came out with late in the SBG’s pre-Hobbit life, because BUY THESE MODELS. To be fair, though, they’re overall a nice batch of models and as you guys know by now, owning unnecessary models is kinda my thing.



Obviously, this rather proud king has uses in any official LotR games, particularly the Strategy Battle Game, but he’ll also serve in the Undead Army for Kings of War (as a Vampire Lord) until such a time as my Mordor Army has sufficient figures painted to be up and running independently of the rather generic Undead force. (His not-quite-finished self can be seen in those pics, too!)