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Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 07:15:58


Post by: Cheesecat


I'm going to be sending out resumes to various companies but I have longish hair and I'm wondering if I should get a haircut. Does hair have much impact on job opportunities?

I have a picture so people have a better idea of what my hair is like, I'm the one on the right doing a really forced smile.
Spoiler:




Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 07:18:38


Post by: Kavik_Whitescar


Would you honestly trust a scraggly and unkept gentlemen to work for you? (cant see the pic work is janky) It wont hurt you to get a trim to get it uniform or cleaned up.



Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 07:23:53


Post by: Steve steveson


I don't know about the specifics in Canada, culture may be diffrent, but I get the feeling it's not. In the UK at least, haircuts can make a diffrence, but unless your going for a job as a merchant banker or a lawyer in an old fasioned firm yours will be fine as long as it is neat when you go for an interview. If you had a Mohawk, bright pink hair or looked in someway extream then yes, it could, but long hair is not an issue unless you happen to be going in to a very stuffy old fashioned business.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 07:25:03


Post by: Cheesecat


Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
Would you honestly trust a scraggly and unkept gentlemen to work for you?


Not everyone who has long hair is unkempt though.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 07:25:37


Post by: Steve steveson


Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
Would you honestly trust a scraggly and unkept gentlemen to work for you? (cant see the pic work is janky) It wont hurt you to get a trim to get it uniform or cleaned up.



It's not unkempt, just sholder length.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 07:28:03


Post by: Kavik_Whitescar


 Steve steveson wrote:
Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
Would you honestly trust a scraggly and unkept gentlemen to work for you? (cant see the pic work is janky) It wont hurt you to get a trim to get it uniform or cleaned up.



It's not unkempt, just sholder length.


Then you should be fine, Like I said work is wonky and I cant see most images, but as long as you are clean about it, there is no real worry imo


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 07:35:40


Post by: TseGuevara


There is one particular type of jobs that will not tolerate long hair extremely well – those which require clear enviroment, i.e. electronics assembly, chemical/microbiological lab, etc. So, unless you are seeking to transmute Pb into Au, you should be fine from a technical standpoint.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 07:39:54


Post by: Dropbear Victim


Doesn't seem bad to me.

If all else fails, turn up to the interviews in a dress. They will think your trans, won't want to be seen to discriminate and will have to hire you.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 09:01:53


Post by: daedalus


What type of job are you going for? One of my friends has a scruffy beard and dirty ponytail and got a job as a programmer without issues. The place he works for might be a little... organic, though.

For a "professional" or "customer facing" job, it might not help so much.

My advice is to at least make sure it's clean and square, or wait until you have the job and then grow it out. Harder to get rid of you after the fact.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 09:18:29


Post by: Psienesis


Depends entirely on where you live and where you want to work. Here in Seattle, there's only a few jobs that require a particularly "clean cut" look, and most of those places aren't where you'd want to work anyway.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 09:25:50


Post by: Sigvatr


Depends on the job. I would never hire someone with untrimmed hair; trimmed hair suggests cleanness to the viewer i.e. you regularly get your hair cut. Long hair doesn't go along with business. Unless you're a woman.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dropbear Victim wrote:


If all else fails, turn up to the interviews in a dress. They will think your trans, won't want to be seen to discriminate and will have to hire you.


Though I realize that it's meant to be as a joke, it's the opposite. No bigger company would want to hire people identifying as trans.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 09:28:47


Post by: Psienesis


No bigger company would want to hire people identifying as trans.


Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Boeing aren't big companies to you?

You must be stupid.

Microsoft, specifically, is one of the world's leaders in workforce diversity, followed by Google, Starbucks, and Amazon. I know several LGBT employees at various Boeing locations in the Pacific Northwest.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 09:30:11


Post by: welshhoppo


Depends on the job. I know one manager didn't want to hire anyone with a beard because he thought they were unkempt. However I work in retail and have a beard and occasionally messy hair, although that is due to the fact my hair is curly and refused to remain in a single position for more than ten minutes without curling up.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 09:31:42


Post by: daedalus


 Psienesis wrote:
No bigger company would want to hire people identifying as trans.


Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Boeing aren't big companies to you?

You must be stupid.

Microsoft, specifically, is one of the world's leaders in workforce diversity, followed by Google, Starbucks, and Amazon. I know several LGBT employees at various Boeing locations in the Pacific Northwest.


Did they show up to interviews wearing dresses?


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 09:36:39


Post by: Psienesis


Of the transexuals that I know who work for Boeing, one is F2M, and arrived in a suit and tie, but I don't know what the M2F wore. However, her job is not one that requires heels and a skirt, since she's some sort of avionics mechanic of some sort or another (which is a job field far outside my realm of expertise, so I can't even begin to describe what it is she does).


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 09:41:46


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Bane


I'd put it back at a minimum. Depends what kind of job you are looking for.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 09:46:40


Post by: Steve steveson


 Sigvatr wrote:
Depends on the job. I would never hire someone with untrimmed hair; trimmed hair suggests cleanness to the viewer i.e. you regularly get your hair cut. Long hair doesn't go along with business. Unless you're a woman.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dropbear Victim wrote:


If all else fails, turn up to the interviews in a dress. They will think your trans, won't want to be seen to discriminate and will have to hire you.


Though I realize that it's meant to be as a joke, it's the opposite. No bigger company would want to hire people identifying as trans.


Both these views are out of line with the law, and every business I have worked for or known of. Both would fall foul of EU discrimination law and the European convention on human rights. You have said things like this before, which makes me thing you are either way out of line with the majority of people, and braking the law, or Germany has some major discrimination issues. I suspect it is the former.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 10:25:38


Post by: marv335


 Psienesis wrote:
she's some sort of avionics mechanic of some sort or another (which is a job field far outside my realm of expertise, so I can't even begin to describe what it is she does).


As a fairy (Technical jargon for an Avionics Fitter) she puts black boxes into/out of slots on the aircraft, turns it on and checks the light goes green.........


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 10:26:12


Post by: von Hohenstein


When I had my first interview my hair was just long enough to make a ponytail. I required a lot of hairspray to make it look decent.
By now, my hair is 67cm long (2'3'') and I never had any issues because of my hair. Just make sure you don't look like some unhygienic punk.

@Sigvatr "Long hair doesn't go along with business". Yes, it does. Is "SIEMENS" big enough for you? Is "customer contact and supplier contact on a regular basis" business enough for you? I do have the longest hair within the whole business unit (300 people) and no one raises an eyebrow. Well, ok, some of the female employees envy my hair but that's rather positive feedback.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 10:27:27


Post by: daedalus


 marv335 wrote:

As a fairy (Technical jargon for an Avionics Fitter) she puts black boxes into/out of slots on the aircraft, turns it on and checks the light goes green.........


I dated a girl into that for a while.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 10:33:25


Post by: Sigvatr


 von Hohenstein wrote:

@Sigvatr "Long hair doesn't go along with business". Yes, it does. Is "SIEMENS" big enough for you? Is "customer contact and supplier contact on a regular basis" business enough for you? I do have the longest hair within the whole business unit (300 people) and no one raises an eyebrow. Well, ok, some of the female employees envy my hair but that's rather positive feedback.


There's nothing wrong with having long hair at all. It's just that it's being looked down upon by higher ups as it goes against the "business face". Clean shaved, clean cut. And I certainly won't displease my higher-ups.

 Steve steveson wrote:


Both these views are out of line with the law, and every business I have worked for or known of. Both would fall foul of EU discrimination law and the European convention on human rights. You have said things like this before, which makes me thing you are either way out of line with the majority of people, and braking the law, or Germany has some major discrimination issues. I suspect it is the former.


The law doesn't mean much. Its underlying purpose is good, but there are so many loopholes and vague points about it that it doesn't matter on a greater scheme / on a higher level. You could fire people for any reason you want. Chargig IPhones, badmouthing superiors, drunk photos on Facebook, pregnancy. Anything. It's breaking the law, yes, but any company frequently breaks the law on each possible level, mostly when it comes to taxes and paying employees. In the end, politics are well-aware of who has the last word on it.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 10:41:28


Post by: Psienesis


 marv335 wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
she's some sort of avionics mechanic of some sort or another (which is a job field far outside my realm of expertise, so I can't even begin to describe what it is she does).


As a fairy (Technical jargon for an Avionics Fitter) she puts black boxes into/out of slots on the aircraft, turns it on and checks the light goes green.........


I will take your word for it, because I literally have no idea what it is she does. My knowledge of avionics begins and ends with "if all you can see is the ground, you're in trouble".


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 10:44:12


Post by: angelofvengeance


Always pays to make a good impression- snip it and neaten it up a bit


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 11:28:50


Post by: djones520


Your best bet is to trim it up a bit. That first impression is the most important.

Folks can cry about the injustice of it all, long hair, crazy tattoos, 2" wide holes in your ears, etc... but in the end you are asking to for someone else to give you money, so it never hurts to present them the best image that you can.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 11:31:09


Post by: Iron_Captain


I don't think long hair is an issue, Just make sure it is clean and neatly brushed and styled.
Long hair looks nice, but it does require quite a lot of effort.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 14:27:35


Post by: Skinnereal


General presentability should overrule and issues with long hair.
Keep everything off the face and dress smartly, that should be enough.
But, as said, it's very dependant on the job, and the prospective employer.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 14:44:07


Post by: Nevelon


Go for the best of both worlds: a mullet! Business in the front, party in the back.*








*YMMV. And by “your milage may vary”, I mean don’t do this.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 14:49:59


Post by: lord_blackfang


My best friend has a ponytail. "You're hired if you trim your hair" is a line he hears often on job interviews.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 14:50:12


Post by: nkelsch


Hair is not a protected class, neither is Tattoos or piercings.

You should know your field of work, your region of the country and your prospective employer. If there is any question, and you want a job, then error on the side of getting the job.

Many companies may not care and have a casual environment, others may care especially if you are a client-facing employee. To say it doesn't have an impact, it does. Most people make subconcious snap judgements about you based upon appearance, and in a job interview, that can be the kiss of death.

The simple fact that tall people get higher paying jobs and hired more than their shorter peers shows how nonsensical it can be, but it exists.

I would clean up to the society standard until I found a stable company I liked and then grow it out. Once you do good work, no one cares what you look like.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 15:22:34


Post by: rryannn


I would recommend a haircut.

Shorter hair is easier to maintain, doesn't get in your eyes, dries faster, etc...

I had long hair in my past, cut it short to play football, cut it shorter when I joined the military and haven't looked back even now that I am out (currently in grad school pursuing an MBA).

You will stand out when you show up to an interview/networking event and everyone else is sporting a mop on their head and scruff on their neck while you are well groomed. Look good, feel good. Look better, do best.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 15:24:19


Post by: hotsauceman1


The times are changing, working with a full beard used to be a nono. Now I have lumbersexuals fixing my computer in it.
just keep it neat and no neon hair dye


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 16:28:48


Post by: KiloFiX


It depends on the job.

And most jobs shouldn't care but people are people and can't help sometimes being influenced by it.

Also, sometimes it's not the company you work for but the company's customers / clients.

A friend with a disaster of a mop worked for a company that didn't care but he never managed to close any deals.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 16:32:04


Post by: hotsauceman1


You might also want to consider straighting it and putting It in a ponytail.
Or shave it, US Berkeley did a study, shaved headstart look more dominant and you are likely to get hired more if you look dominant
Just an idea


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 16:35:15


Post by: Desubot


You could always rock a bun

But really the haircut depends on the job and who you work for.

But preference is probably on clean cut and short.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 16:35:52


Post by: Crimson Heretic


depends on the job, the culture...also be warned, alot of employers will ask to view your social networking accounts or they will look you up. I hope you don't present pot themed photos on your crackbook page, pot may be legal in some places but it is not 100% socially accepted and often results as you being labeled in a bad light.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 16:39:24


Post by: hotsauceman1


Crimson Heretic wrote:
depends on the job, the culture...also be warned, alot of employers will ask to view your social networking accounts or they will look you up. I hope you don't present pot themed photos on your crackbook page, pot may be legal in some places but it is not 100% socially accepted and often results as you being labeled in a bad light.

That is why I conduct my way on Facebook like my boss is always looking at it.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 16:40:38


Post by: jreilly89


I would argue yes. Professionals jobs are becoming more accepting, but I still wouldn't take my chances.

I am actually cutting my hair today (it's about 7" long), I took out my earrings, and all my tattoos are in places I can hide. I'm going to be submitting applications for engineering positions, so I need to look semi-professional.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 17:26:38


Post by: Talizvar


Job interviews are like a first date: It has to go perfect, this is being at your best, it will only get worse from here.

You need every advantage you can get, you can always grow your hair back at any point, you only get one shot at a particular business.

Unfortunately all manner of prejudice and preferences are at play with the possible employer, it is better to try to avoid running afoul of them.

Dress better than them, look better than them, know specific information about the job, you MUST be better than all the other applicants to be hired.

It really is a date, if everyone else is into the short hair look, you with the long may not fit into their tribe's "culture" and be passed-up on something as silly as that.

Good luck, it is not an easy thing to promote yourself like a desired product:
I will make you money!
I will innovate!
Everyone will like me and work well with me!
I will make/do/sell/save/organize all the things you needed for this job!
I know EVERYTHING needed, no further training required: good out of the box!
Offer is limited, many others are interested in me! Commit now or lose this great opportunity!

I remember feeling dirty when all was said and done on the job finding campaign trail.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 17:37:55


Post by: Jihadin


I would hire the guy in the blue if both of you showed up for interviews.

Play safe
Get hair cut
Let it grow out again


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 17:43:42


Post by: hotsauceman1


Once you get the job, you can slowly grow it back, if the job doesn't like it and you are a good worker they will tell you to cut it.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 17:45:20


Post by: Avatar 720


Dress better than them, look better than them, know specific information about the job, you MUST be better than all the other applicants to be hired.


Depending on the job and the interviewer(s), this can also do nothing for your chances. I turned up for a part-time Christmas position interview at Argos, smartly-dressed in the usual suit, tie, and clean shoes, hair recently cut, on time, with all the relevant documents to hand and knowledgeable. Got through the team challenges well, and the 1-on-1. Didn't get the position, for <insert reason here> (they never bothered getting back to me when I asked). I was easily the most presentable person there (i.e. the only guy in a bloody suit), and from chatting with the applicants before the interview, easily the most qualified--we were all job centre applicants who got first dibs on a few allotted positions as part of the Job Centre's optional mandatory scheme, where it was perfectly optional to take part, but you'd be penalised if you didn't. I didn't bother going to see who had been hired, if anyone. I wouldn't have minded as much if I'd known why, all I got was a metaphorical shoulder-shrug.

Previous to that, I was at a Tesco interview, and lost out to someone with huge boobs. The interviewer was male. You can probably guess the rest. Was also not graced with a reason for being turned down.

Sometimes the odds can be stacked against you for reasons beyond your control, even if you've made all the effort you can. Try not to get disheartened too much by being repeatedly shot down for bad reasons ("you're overqualified for this position") or no reason at all.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 17:48:51


Post by: hotsauceman1


I mean, I was told I wasn't qualified for a crossing guard position at my school. I was literally no qualified to stand and tell college students when they can cross the road. Why? The job went to freshmen because the school doesn't want freshmen working outside of campus if they can help it.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 18:58:43


Post by: Cheesecat


For context, these are the places I'm looking at:

The hospital, Home Depot, traffic person, bus sweeper, government jobs, Sun Peaks, Canadian Tire, Ajax, saw mill, BC Liquor, pulp mill, gold mine, Acres, Lafarge, streamline enterprises, CN and CP railway, John Deere, Labour Ready, Highland Copper Valley Mine, BC Hydro, Sperry Rail

service, carnival, Afton mine, NRI, Logan’s Truck Brite, New Gold Mine, construction worker, etc.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 19:10:51


Post by: sirlynchmob


Do some research,

check out their web sites and see if you can find their dress codes. Or just wander by and see how the people there are dressed.

the best thing to do is list them in the order of preferred job. This is my first pick, this is my 10th pick. Then try to interview from 10 to 1, get your mistakes out early and incorporate their feed back into your next interview on the way up your list.

from a hospital to carnival? that's quite the diverse job search.



Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 19:13:34


Post by: Cheesecat


sirlynchmob wrote:
Do some research,

check out their web sites and see if you can find their dress codes. Or just wander by and see how the people there are dressed.

the best thing to do is list them in the order of preferred job. This is my first pick, this is my 10th pick. Then try to interview from 10 to 1, get your mistakes out early and incorporate their feed back into your next interview on the way up your list.

from a hospital to carnival? that's quite the diverse job search.



I'm basically looking for any place that pays better and gives me more hours (I want at least 4 shifts a week) than my previous job (Triple-O's). Also no more restaurant jobs.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 19:30:31


Post by: timetowaste85


Honestly, I'd say a ponytail should be sufficient. If you go in in an appropriate suit, it can look dashing. I wouldn't recommend going as your hair looks in the picture. While not "wild", you could keep your current length and still make it look more groomed.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 19:43:42


Post by: jreilly89


Also, unlikely, but on the offchance they check out your Dakka Dakka profile, maybe take down the pot leaf flag


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 19:47:27


Post by: sirlynchmob


 jreilly89 wrote:
Also, unlikely, but on the offchance they check out your Dakka Dakka profile, maybe take down the pot leaf flag


that's a good point, if you facebook make a "professional" account and point any job that wants the info to that one.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 19:47:56


Post by: Stevefamine


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Crimson Heretic wrote:
depends on the job, the culture...also be warned, alot of employers will ask to view your social networking accounts or they will look you up. I hope you don't present pot themed photos on your crackbook page, pot may be legal in some places but it is not 100% socially accepted and often results as you being labeled in a bad light.

That is why I conduct my way on Facebook like my boss is always looking at it.


My job hires out a third party company to look at employee's facebooks. I took mine down and made another one under an alternate name


On the note of the OP - with your avatar and cut.... I would try and clean up a bit if the job is paying over 25k+ / or is full time. Depends on the field, the initial impression, and how you conduct yourself. If you're charismatic enough - the hair might add to your personality. The guy sitting in the cubicle next to me has a pony tail and is wearing a suit. I'm under the impression he spends quite a bit of time shaving and grooming his beard and hair - on top of dressing sharp!

My job out of college was a front desk job (As I was trying to apply within the company) as a temp. My previous boss later told me it was from my "Initial impression and clean cut professional look" and "I was the only one who wore a fitted suit, the others had polos or terribly fitted suits". I've shadowed interviews where a neckbeard in khaki / ill fitting polo shirt that hangs awkwardly.


Good luck OP


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 19:59:10


Post by: dogma


Honestly, if someone you're looking to work for is trying to track you down on something like Facebook you probably don't want to work for that person unless you're really desperate. That's a clear sign of a boss who is willing to invade your personal life.

As to hair length: its all a matter of overall image. As a pretty stocky, muscular guy I've had as many potential employers turn me down due to looking like a "thug" when I had short hair as potential employers who turned me down for looking like a "hippie" after I grew my hair out. Just make yourself appear well groomed, and don't stress about biases.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 20:17:47


Post by: d-usa


It might not be fair, but it's always best to be as presentable as possible in an interview.

1) A good first step would be to see if you can do some research and find the dress code for every position you apply for. I wouldn't want to show up to an interview not meeting their requirements, I think at the very minimum you should always show up looking like you would be ready to walk out of that office and ready to work. If your job would require you to cut your hair if you got it, then go ahead and cut it.

2) Aside from grooming requirements I am a believer of the "dress code +1 level" approach. If the business has a casual dress code, then show up in business casual. If the dress code is business casual, then show up in a suit. Of course you can never go wrong in a suit.

I am pretty lucky and my job doesn't really have a lot of rules as far as the dress code is concerned. We have rules about nails and clothes, and that is pretty much it. No rules regarding tattoos, no rules regarding beards, no rules regarding hair. I have to wear a giant respirator hood instead of a nice compact N95 respirator due to my beard, but I'm allowed to have it. But I did have an interview for a promotion last week and decided to cut and style the hair, trim the beard down from lumbersexual to metro-sexual, and wear my suit and tie instead of scrubs.



Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 20:23:38


Post by: Ouze


I agree that it depends wildly on what field you're going into. If you're going into (for example) IT and it's not management, it won't matter if it's neat in my experience. if you're going into sales or something customer facing, you might want want to shorten it up.

You could never go wrong with getting a short neat haircut, though, if getting the job is more important than your hair.



Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 20:27:56


Post by: NuggzTheNinja


Crop circles are the new thing.



The bigger the dollar signs, the bigger your salary.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 20:30:52


Post by: Sigvatr


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The times are changing, working with a full beard used to be a nono. Now I have lumbersexuals fixing my computer in it.
just keep it neat and no neon hair dye


No piercings is very important as well.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 20:32:01


Post by: marv335


"Dress for the job you want, not the job you have" my supervisor told me.

That's why I'm sat in HR dressed like Batman.....

All joking aside, cutting the hair won't kill you, and you can always grow it back later.
Short term sacrifice for long term gain.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 20:49:03


Post by: MrMoustaffa


 Cheesecat wrote:
I'm going to be sending out resumes to various companies but I have longish hair and I'm wondering if I should get a haircut. Does hair have much impact on job opportunities?

I have a picture so people have a better idea of what my hair is like, I'm the one on the right doing a really forced smile.
Spoiler:



Think about how many times you've inadvertently judged someone based on their appearance, even if you didn't mean to.

Now imagine you're a guy who has to skim through 50 some odd resumes, has probably had to deal with multiple slackers in the past, and is basing everything he knows about you to hire you for something in the time frame of 15-45 minutes.

I've talked to managers in charge of interviews who have dismissed people solely because of their posture, the way they spoke, how they entered the room, and all sorts of other things that we would consider petty. Thing is, they have very little to build an impression on you, so they have to take every little clue they get from meeting you into account. Stuff that we consider insignificant, like a little stain on a shirt, can be a big red flag to them (Well if he didn't take the time to show up to this interview at his best, how do I know he's not going to be a slob on the job? etc.) Haircut plays a big part in that. A simple, no nonsense hair cut implies you keep yourself taken care of and value your appearance. It also helps if you work in a position where you're a "face" of the company. While the average 20 something won't care, an older person in their 40's or 50's is going to look down on you and be less likely to take you seriously than if you had a cleaner haircut

Of course, it also depends on the job in question. For example, a guy covered in tattoos is still very likely to get a job in live production, because that's considered common there, whereas the odds of him getting a job as a teacher is much worse. If you're applying to stuff like Walmart or McDonalds, you should be fine as long as your credentials are good and you do well in the interview.

Think about it this way, you have to interview for a position. Now, pretending every other credential is exactly the same on these two applicant's resumes, who are you gonna hire? (apologies for the pics being two completely different people, but they were the best examples I could find on a quick search, just pretend it'd be a similar looking guy with only the hair different)

Applicant number one
Spoiler:


Or applicant number two?
Spoiler:


Honestly I don't have a ton of room to speak here myself, as I keep a beard, but I keep it well kept and keep a clean haircut as well to make up for that. If it wasn't for the fact that the jobs I work at tend to have far crazier looking people in their ranks to make me look good by comparison, and the fact that I look 16 without it, I would shave it in a heartbeat for a job interview.

Oh yeah and a little tip I found was really helpful, and it's going to sound really stupid.

A nice firm handshake.

At least, that's how it works in the southeast. A nice firm handshake is considered an essential part of "being a man", and I've had multiple interviews where that alone immediately put me in good graces with the interviewer before I had even sat down. Maybe Canada is different, but it works down here.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 21:06:29


Post by: nkelsch


 dogma wrote:
Honestly, if someone you're looking to work for is trying to track you down on something like Facebook you probably don't want to work for that person unless you're really desperate. That's a clear sign of a boss who is willing to invade your personal life.


Enjoy being unemployed. Virtually every company now does a google search and social media search of every prospective candidate before interview and most do personal investigations/background checks after hiring at a minimum to verify college credentials and criminal records. It is easy, cheap and almost every professional company does it to some extent.

If you think having a prospective employer check out your social media existence is invading your personal life, then you are best suited for selling hotdogs on the beach boardwalk or oranges on the side of a highway if you must have your private personal freedom from your employer.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 21:21:20


Post by: d-usa


nkelsch wrote:
 dogma wrote:
Honestly, if someone you're looking to work for is trying to track you down on something like Facebook you probably don't want to work for that person unless you're really desperate. That's a clear sign of a boss who is willing to invade your personal life.


Enjoy being unemployed. Virtually every company now does a google search and social media search of every prospective candidate before interview and most do personal investigations/background checks after hiring at a minimum to verify college credentials and criminal records. It is easy, cheap and almost every professional company does it to some extent.


Which is why everybody is pretty wise to make all their settings private to at least attempt to minimize what is out there.

Of course you also have jobs asking for your account passwords, and I would always decline a job that has that requirement.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 21:30:19


Post by: dogma


nkelsch wrote:

Enjoy being unemployed. Virtually every company now does a google search and social media search of every prospective candidate before interview and most do personal investigations/background checks after hiring at a minimum to verify college credentials and criminal records. It is easy, cheap and almost every professional company does it to some extent.


I've been employed whenever I tried to be since my Facebook account was created in 2004, without any attempt at sterilization. This is why I stated that, absent desperation, any employer that attempts to track you down on social networks like Facebook is probably not an employer you want to work for.

nkelsch wrote:

If you think having a prospective employer check out your social media existence is invading your personal life, then you are best suited for selling hotdogs on the beach boardwalk or oranges on the side of a highway if you must have your private personal freedom from your employer.


I think checking out certain types of social media is acceptable (LinkedIn being the best example), just not the types of social media that resemble Facebook (Google+ and Myspace being the most prominent examples) as I believe personal and professional lives should be considered separate. I also dispute the notion that people who believe what I do are only fit for "...selling hotdogs on the beach boardwalk...". I don't mean to toot my own horn but I probably make more than you do, and in large part because I don't hide from flaws brought up during interviews related to internet searches.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 21:33:46


Post by: NuggzTheNinja


 dogma wrote:
nkelsch wrote:

Enjoy being unemployed. Virtually every company now does a google search and social media search of every prospective candidate before interview and most do personal investigations/background checks after hiring at a minimum to verify college credentials and criminal records. It is easy, cheap and almost every professional company does it to some extent.


I've been employed whenever I tried to be since my Facebook account was created in 2004, without any attempt at sterilization. This is why I stated that, absent desperation, any employer that attempts to track you down on social networks like Facebook is probably not an employer you want to work for.

nkelsch wrote:

If you think having a prospective employer check out your social media existence is invading your personal life, then you are best suited for selling hotdogs on the beach boardwalk or oranges on the side of a highway if you must have your private personal freedom from your employer.


I think checking out certain types of social media is acceptable (LinkedIn being the best example), just not the types of social media that resemble Facebook (Google+ and Myspace being the most prominent examples) as I believe personal and professional lives should be considered separate. I also dispute the notion that people who believe what I do are only fit for "...selling hotdogs on the beach boardwalk...". I don't mean to toot my own horn but I probably make more than you do, and in large part because I don't hide from flaws brought up during interviews related to internet searches.


I knew there was a reason I had him on ignore. What a crock of gak

Your employer buys your skill set and your time, not your soul.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 21:52:36


Post by: Talizvar


 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Your employer buys your skill set and your time, not your soul.
There have been a couple bosses I had to less then gently remind them of that fact.
There are many individuals out there who really do want you to believe they own you.
Hence, why job hunting while still employed happens.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 22:30:12


Post by: hotsauceman1


 Stevefamine wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Crimson Heretic wrote:
depends on the job, the culture...also be warned, alot of employers will ask to view your social networking accounts or they will look you up. I hope you don't present pot themed photos on your crackbook page, pot may be legal in some places but it is not 100% socially accepted and often results as you being labeled in a bad light.

That is why I conduct my way on Facebook like my boss is always looking at it.


My job hires out a third party company to look at employee's facebooks. I took mine down and made another one under an alternate name


Ehh, I keep mine clean, nerdyou but clean.
Now god help me if they ever find out my 40k name.
I did a Google search for it and it has my pic and tons of pony and 40k stuff.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 22:57:43


Post by: Howard A Treesong


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Crimson Heretic wrote:
depends on the job, the culture...also be warned, alot of employers will ask to view your social networking accounts or they will look you up. I hope you don't present pot themed photos on your crackbook page, pot may be legal in some places but it is not 100% socially accepted and often results as you being labeled in a bad light.

That is why I conduct my way on Facebook like my boss is always looking at it.


Ha! Employers can try to look up my social networking profiles if they wish (they're all 'private' to anyone but friends).. But I'd refuse to give them access to my private accounts, it's really no more of their business than my bank account. Really, any employer that asks you give access to look through your social networking is taking the piss and should be told where to go. What next, letting them look through your window all evening to see what you talk about?

Similarly I'm surprised at the number of Americans that complain about drugs testing for the most routine of jobs. Is this really common? How have you been trained to accept this? Unless you're turning up to work stoned there's no reason it's acceptable to be asked to undertake testing for anything 'just because'. Shocking.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 23:40:59


Post by: Frazzled


Crimson Heretic wrote:
depends on the job, the culture...also be warned, alot of employers will ask to view your social networking accounts or they will look you up. I hope you don't present pot themed photos on your crackbook page, pot may be legal in some places but it is not 100% socially accepted and often results as you being labeled in a bad light.


I'm old. I don't know what a social network is.

TBone has his own though.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 23:43:51


Post by: dogma


 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Similarly I'm surprised at the number of Americans that complain about drugs testing for the most routine of jobs. Is this really common?


It is quite common though the results don't necessarily have any bearing on your employment, and the less routine your job the less likely you will be required to take a drug test.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/03 23:44:21


Post by: -Loki-


 Sigvatr wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The times are changing, working with a full beard used to be a nono. Now I have lumbersexuals fixing my computer in it.
just keep it neat and no neon hair dye


No piercings is very important as well.


I've worked in IT as a programmer now for about 6 years. Over that time I've had hair past my shoulders, various length beards (almost hobo-scruffy at some points), and known people both in IT and client services with tatoos (sleeves that were visible when wearing short sleeved shirts, visible tramp stamps), facial peircings, died hair, long hair, beards, shaved heads, etc.

The only thing I've ever done to make it easier for myself in interviews is tidy it up. If I have a beard, do a little manscaping. I did cut my hair, but that was actually months before I was made redundant, so I didn't do it for my interview. When I mentioned it at the interview, the interviewer said he hoped I didn't cut it on account of them - they were perfectly fine with it.

You're really making it sound as if Germany is pretty discriminatory.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/04 00:00:24


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Cheesecat wrote:
For context, these are the places I'm looking at:

The hospital, Home Depot, traffic person, bus sweeper, government jobs, Sun Peaks, Canadian Tire, Ajax, saw mill, BC Liquor, pulp mill, gold mine, Acres, Lafarge, streamline enterprises, CN and CP railway, John Deere, Labour Ready, Highland Copper Valley Mine, BC Hydro, Sperry Rail

service, carnival, Afton mine, NRI, Logan’s Truck Brite, New Gold Mine, construction worker, etc.



Lol, about half of these places, if I were the one hiring and you didn't have a full beard, I wouldn't hire you

Places like the hospital or anywhere that there's potential for working with/near food products, I would probably trim/cut the hair as it presents the image (even if it is falsely) that you "care" about getting your follicles into the company's products. Obviously, if they are interviewing you and they ask if you'd be willing to wear a hair net, you should say yes, because being employed and wearing a hairnet is better than being unemployed and broke


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frazzled wrote:

I'm old. I don't know what a social network is.



It's like the Elk's Lodge, Free masonry, the bowling team, the local VFW, etc.... only without the physical hand shaking and actually talking to real people thing


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/04 00:12:50


Post by: nkelsch


 dogma wrote:
nkelsch wrote:

Enjoy being unemployed. Virtually every company now does a google search and social media search of every prospective candidate before interview and most do personal investigations/background checks after hiring at a minimum to verify college credentials and criminal records. It is easy, cheap and almost every professional company does it to some extent.


I've been employed whenever I tried to be since my Facebook account was created in 2004, without any attempt at sterilization. This is why I stated that, absent desperation, any employer that attempts to track you down on social networks like Facebook is probably not an employer you want to work for.

nkelsch wrote:

If you think having a prospective employer check out your social media existence is invading your personal life, then you are best suited for selling hotdogs on the beach boardwalk or oranges on the side of a highway if you must have your private personal freedom from your employer.


I think checking out certain types of social media is acceptable (LinkedIn being the best example), just not the types of social media that resemble Facebook (Google+ and Myspace being the most prominent examples) as I believe personal and professional lives should be considered separate. I also dispute the notion that people who believe what I do are only fit for "...selling hotdogs on the beach boardwalk...". I don't mean to toot my own horn but I probably make more than you do, and in large part because I don't hide from flaws brought up during interviews related to internet searches.


I also don't hide from my 'flaws', but "you shouldn't search that stuff' is not a defense and it is not only regularly done but common practice, especially in companies with HR departments who literally have people with full time jobs which do nothing but google incoming resumes and background check new hires. You can believe they should be separate, but you clearly know they are not and manage your social media footprint correctly. Your belief doesn't manage the reality of the business world that all employers, even the one you probably work for search and make judgement based upon your social media. Owning up to it or keeping your social media consumable by employers is what keeps you good, not railing about 'my private life has no impact on work'. If you refused to work for a company who checked your facebook, you would be unemployed. Sounds like even your company checked your social media and questioned you about it during your interview.

You would be surprised how many people lie about credentials and freak out when the first thing upon being hired is submitting to a background check to verify criminal record and university degrees. Social media is just the tip of the iceburg.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Similarly I'm surprised at the number of Americans that complain about drugs testing for the most routine of jobs. Is this really common? How have you been trained to accept this? Unless you're turning up to work stoned there's no reason it's acceptable to be asked to undertake testing for anything 'just because'. Shocking.


It is pretty common. Any job which you operate machinery usually reserves the rights for random testing as part of the process, but pretty much most companies reserve the right to request testing as part of employment, and you sign away your rights.

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/asp/drugfree/drugs/dt.asp

Is drug testing legal?
In most cases it is legal for employers to test employees for drugs. No Federal laws prohibit the practice. However, there are several states that restrict or question an employer’s ability to randomly drug test employees who are not in safety-sensitive positions. Thus, it is very important that employers familiarize themselves with the various state laws that may apply to their organization before implementing a drug-testing program. Furthermore, under certain circumstances, someone with a history of alcoholism or drug addiction may be considered a qualified individual with a disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and other Federal non-discrimination statues. As a result, testing for alcohol without individualized suspicions (e.g. pre-employment or random) is not allowable.


Usually a company has a policy they make you sign, they never use it, and then if there is an incident, they do one and it helps with termination. I know I would lose my job and clearances pretty immediately should I do any drugs.




Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/04 04:20:08


Post by: KiloFiX


When I was volunteering at a clinic on weekends I'd see tons of people come in for company mandated pre-hire drug testing - from truckers, to auto plant workers, to even investment bankers.

This was in the US.

Funny thing was that many people would ask me directly if there was a way to avoid pot showing up on the tests.

I told them, from what I heard, it really didn't matter if pot showed up. (I actually did hear from one of the banks, and one of the plants that they didn't really care about pot).


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/04 04:26:26


Post by: daedalus


 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Similarly I'm surprised at the number of Americans that complain about drugs testing for the most routine of jobs. Is this really common? How have you been trained to accept this? Unless you're turning up to work stoned there's no reason it's acceptable to be asked to undertake testing for anything 'just because'. Shocking.


Officially my current job allows for the possibility, though in the 7 years I've been there, no one has been tested in any country we operate that I'm aware of.

The only jobs I've had where they did bother to test you were menial retail positions when I was young.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/04 04:39:49


Post by: Bromsy


 daedalus wrote:
 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Similarly I'm surprised at the number of Americans that complain about drugs testing for the most routine of jobs. Is this really common? How have you been trained to accept this? Unless you're turning up to work stoned there's no reason it's acceptable to be asked to undertake testing for anything 'just because'. Shocking.


Officially my current job allows for the possibility, though in the 7 years I've been there, no one has been tested in any country we operate that I'm aware of.

The only jobs I've had where they did bother to test you were menial retail positions when I was young.


And the Army...


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/04 04:55:56


Post by: DarkLink


 daedalus wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
No bigger company would want to hire people identifying as trans.


Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Boeing aren't big companies to you?

You must be stupid.

Microsoft, specifically, is one of the world's leaders in workforce diversity, followed by Google, Starbucks, and Amazon. I know several LGBT employees at various Boeing locations in the Pacific Northwest.


Did they show up to interviews wearing dresses?


If you show up to an interview in a dress and don't get hired, it's not because they secretly hate trans[insert appropriate gender-descriptor here].


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 daedalus wrote:
 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Similarly I'm surprised at the number of Americans that complain about drugs testing for the most routine of jobs. Is this really common? How have you been trained to accept this? Unless you're turning up to work stoned there's no reason it's acceptable to be asked to undertake testing for anything 'just because'. Shocking.


Officially my current job allows for the possibility, though in the 7 years I've been there, no one has been tested in any country we operate that I'm aware of.

The only jobs I've had where they did bother to test you were menial retail positions when I was young.


As a college grad, I've only ever done drug testing with the Marines. I was actually surprised when my current roommate (who works retail) mentioned he needed to get a drug test. I imagine menial labor type jobs probably need to filter out more bad eggs or something, or at least I imaging that's at least the logic behind it.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/04 05:18:08


Post by: daedalus


 DarkLink wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
No bigger company would want to hire people identifying as trans.


Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Boeing aren't big companies to you?

You must be stupid.

Microsoft, specifically, is one of the world's leaders in workforce diversity, followed by Google, Starbucks, and Amazon. I know several LGBT employees at various Boeing locations in the Pacific Northwest.


Did they show up to interviews wearing dresses?


If you show up to an interview in a dress and don't get hired, it's not because they secretly hate trans[insert appropriate gender-descriptor here].


The original thought spurred from the recommendation that he wear a dress to the interview, hence the comment. I agree with you, though I don't think we'd hire anyone seeming to be male who showed up to an interview wearing a dress, and we also have very good PR on how much we love the LGBT folks.



Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/04 14:35:45


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 daedalus wrote:
[
The original thought spurred from the recommendation that he wear a dress to the interview, hence the comment. I agree with you, though I don't think we'd hire anyone seeming to be male who showed up to an interview wearing a dress, and we also have very good PR on how much we love the LGBT folks.



What if it's not a dress per se, but rather a kilt? (like, a legit one, not a plaid skirt being played off as a kilt)

If you don't hire a scotsman, who will?? Won't you think of the Scots!? Seriously, if you don't employ them, they get all wound up and start face painting with blue and white and running around with kitchen utensils yelling "FREEEEEEEEEDDDDDOOOOOOMMM!!" and stuff. It's a bloody PR nightmare


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 18:02:58


Post by: trexmeyer


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The times are changing, working with a full beard used to be a nono. Now I have lumbersexuals fixing my computer in it.
just keep it neat and no neon hair dye


I completely lost it at lumbersexuals. Did you coin that term or is that the actual descriptor for these guys running around in plaid with huge beards and high fades?


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 18:05:49


Post by: Frazzled


 -Loki- wrote:
 Sigvatr wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The times are changing, working with a full beard used to be a nono. Now I have lumbersexuals fixing my computer in it.
just keep it neat and no neon hair dye


No piercings is very important as well.


I've worked in IT as a programmer now for about 6 years. Over that time I've had hair past my shoulders, various length beards (almost hobo-scruffy at some points), and known people both in IT and client services with tatoos (sleeves that were visible when wearing short sleeved shirts, visible tramp stamps), facial peircings, died hair, long hair, beards, shaved heads, etc.

The only thing I've ever done to make it easier for myself in interviews is tidy it up. If I have a beard, do a little manscaping. I did cut my hair, but that was actually months before I was made redundant, so I didn't do it for my interview. When I mentioned it at the interview, the interviewer said he hoped I didn't cut it on account of them - they were perfectly fine with it.

You're really making it sound as if Germany is pretty discriminatory.


You would never have made it through the door here.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 18:07:52


Post by: Crazy_Carnifex


 trexmeyer wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The times are changing, working with a full beard used to be a nono. Now I have lumbersexuals fixing my computer in it.
just keep it neat and no neon hair dye


I completely lost it at lumbersexuals. Did you coin that term or is that the actual descriptor for these guys running around in plaid with huge beards and high fades?


He is not making that up.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 18:29:42


Post by: loki old fart


Go to the place a day before you're supposed too.
Check out what everybody else is like and try to fit in.
Fitting in as part of the team, can be vital in getting the job.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 21:11:42


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
 trexmeyer wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The times are changing, working with a full beard used to be a nono. Now I have lumbersexuals fixing my computer in it.
just keep it neat and no neon hair dye


I completely lost it at lumbersexuals. Did you coin that term or is that the actual descriptor for these guys running around in plaid with huge beards and high fades?


He is not making that up.


While sad, it is true.... but as a guy with a "huge beard" and a moderately "military-esque" hair cut, not everyone who wears plaid plus beard, plus haircut is a "lumbersexual"


For one thing, *I* know how to use an ax, as well as a wide variety of powered tools. I also do not wear glasses to be ironic. I wear sunglasses, but they are the same make/model as what I wore my last 2 years in the army and so look nothing like what hipsters (aka, Lumbersexuals in this case) wear.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 21:19:50


Post by: Squidmanlolz


Most places will at least require you to keep it in a ponytail (at least that was the norm when I worked in retail)


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 21:31:45


Post by: KiloFiX


Sometimes, I do feel like showing up at work with a Warhawk and tactical beard.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 21:33:06


Post by: Squidmanlolz


 KiloFiX wrote:
Sometimes, I do feel like showing up at work with a Warhawk and tactical beard.

That's what I love about working as a plumber. I can dress however I want and nobody bats an eye.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 21:41:01


Post by: KiloFiX


 Squidmanlolz wrote:
 KiloFiX wrote:
Sometimes, I do feel like showing up at work with a Warhawk and tactical beard.

That's what I love about working as a plumber. I can dress however I want and nobody bats an eye.


Is it true what they say about plumbers and housewives? Lol, j/k and sorry digression but I had to ask.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 21:47:34


Post by: Frazzled


They don't dare look directly at you. OMG the crack is a valley of Death!


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 21:56:15


Post by: Desubot


 KiloFiX wrote:
Sometimes, I do feel like showing up at work with a Warhawk and tactical beard.


I have wanted to do that for so long but my hair no grow past 2" long :(


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 21:56:23


Post by: Iron_Captain


 KiloFiX wrote:
 Squidmanlolz wrote:
 KiloFiX wrote:
Sometimes, I do feel like showing up at work with a Warhawk and tactical beard.

That's what I love about working as a plumber. I can dress however I want and nobody bats an eye.


Is it true what they say about plumbers and housewives? Lol, j/k and sorry digression but I had to ask.

And what happens when the plumber and the milkman both arrive at the same house at the same time?


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 22:02:19


Post by: Squidmanlolz


 KiloFiX wrote:
 Squidmanlolz wrote:
 KiloFiX wrote:
Sometimes, I do feel like showing up at work with a Warhawk and tactical beard.

That's what I love about working as a plumber. I can dress however I want and nobody bats an eye.


Is it true what they say about plumbers and housewives? Lol, j/k and sorry digression but I had to ask.

Not in the least. Most people carry the "Fix my gak and get out" attitude.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 22:05:08


Post by: Frazzled



Not in the least. Most people carry the "Fix my gak and get out" attitude.


Well yea, you're a stranger in their homes. Now SWMBO is very friendly to people but I'm just polite.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 22:25:13


Post by: hotsauceman1


 trexmeyer wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The times are changing, working with a full beard used to be a nono. Now I have lumbersexuals fixing my computer in it.
just keep it neat and no neon hair dye


I completely lost it at lumbersexuals. Did you coin that term or is that the actual descriptor for these guys running around in plaid with huge beards and high fades?

I heard it on a podcast. Like Wordfunk I think.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/05 23:41:16


Post by: Albatross


I work for a major investment bank and there are dudes with long hair in my office. It's 2015. I'm occasionally surprised at how puritanical Americans can be...

As long as you make an effort to look smart you should be fine. Maybe tie it up so it's a little neater, but I wouldn't go chopping it off. The only thing I will say is that if you're working with industrial machinery, I'd maybe avoid having long hair, for safety reasons.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/06 02:01:27


Post by: KiloFiX


I think the thing about investment banking is that it's not really customer facing.

That said, I do wish the public was more accepting in general.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/06 02:03:15


Post by: Squidmanlolz


When I worked at gamestop, hair had to be ponytailed if it was longer than shoulder-length, you couldn't have died hair, etc.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/06 07:05:48


Post by: Bullockist


Chezcat I dunno about changing the hair, mebbe changing the whole head would be best.
Seriously just make it neater and enjoy hair while you can.
I am firmly in the "I wish the general public would relax a bit" camp.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 01:54:41


Post by: Albatross


 KiloFiX wrote:
I think the thing about investment banking is that it's not really customer facing.

Well, my job is client-facing - we get client visits etc.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 05:15:34


Post by: dogma


nkelsch wrote:

I also don't hide from my 'flaws'...


I sincerely doubt that.

nkelsch wrote:

...but "you shouldn't search that stuff' is not a defense and it is not only regularly done but common practice...


I never claimed otherwise.

nkelsch wrote:

...especially in companies with HR departments who literally have people with full time jobs which do nothing but google incoming resumes and background check new hires.


There is a massive difference between a Google search and a background check.

nkelsch wrote:
Sounds like even your company checked your social media and questioned you about it during your interview.


How does it sound like that? Please explain.

nkelsch wrote:

You would be surprised how many people lie about credentials and freak out when the first thing upon being hired is submitting to a background check to verify criminal record and university degrees. Social media is just the tip of the iceburg.


No, I wouldn't. Because I am not (and never was) a lazy boss, but I also never gave a damn about anything an employee did outside the workplace.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 05:20:51


Post by: hotsauceman1


 dogma wrote:
nkelsch wrote:

I also don't hide from my 'flaws', but "you shouldn't search that stuff' is not a defense and it is not only regularly done but common practice, especially in companies with HR departments who literally have people with full time jobs which do nothing but google incoming resumes and background check new hires.


There is a massive difference between a Google search and a background check.

nkelsch wrote:
Sounds like even your company checked your social media and questioned you about it during your interview.


It never came up, because the company I work for isn't terrible.

nkelsch wrote:

You would be surprised how many people lie about credentials and freak out when the first thing upon being hired is submitting to a background check to verify criminal record and university degrees. Social media is just the tip of the iceburg.


No, I wouldn't. Because I am not (and never was) a lazy boss, but I also never gave a damn about anything an employee did outside the workplace.

what if he was shooting up heroin while wearing a "I work at XXX place" shirt?


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 05:22:58


Post by: dogma


 hotsauceman1 wrote:

what if he was shooting up heroin while wearing a "I work at XXX place" shirt?


Was he sober when he came to the interview?


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 05:26:29


Post by: cincydooley


 Albatross wrote:
I work for a major investment bank and there are dudes with long hair in my office. It's 2015. I'm occasionally surprised at how puritanical Americans can be...


I also work for a bank (a top5, nonetheless) and there are men with pony tails (mostly in IT, coincidentally) and plenty of men with beards (myself included).

However, all the executive management I've had the good fortune to meet/work with all are clean shaven with very similar haircuts.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 05:37:53


Post by: Ouze


 Iron_Captain wrote:
And what happens when the plumber and the milkman both arrive at the same house at the same time?


I've seen plenty of videos that answer that exact question, and it doesn't seem to be a huge problem logistically until the pizza man arrives.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 05:50:19


Post by: d-usa


 Ouze wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
And what happens when the plumber and the milkman both arrive at the same house at the same time?


I've seen plenty of videos that answer that exact question, and it doesn't seem to be a huge problem logistically until the pizza man arrives.




Three pegs and it keeps the box from getting soggy.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 09:46:46


Post by: Haight


 djones520 wrote:
Your best bet is to trim it up a bit. That first impression is the most important.

Folks can cry about the injustice of it all, long hair, crazy tattoos, 2" wide holes in your ears, etc... but in the end you are asking to for someone else to give you money, so it never hurts to present them the best image that you can.


You had me until "... asking someone else to give you money."


I'd say that's not correct. You're trying to convince someone (or several someones) that you're the best person to trade money for work with. Appearances can be part of that decision, sad as it is. This notion that businesses grace us with a donation of cash and benefits is just as incorrect as the notion that a business "owes" an employee something automatically. It's an exchange ; service for compensation in various forms. This argument is the opposite side of the entitled employee coin.


For instance, i'm in construction. Specifically business development (financials, bidding, finance) and management (execution, profitability, mitigation). I have the numbers at my disposal to prove that I make my company in net profit many hundred times over per year what it costs to retain me. They don't "give" me gak. They compensate me to a degree that keeps me happy and not too tempted to have a wandering eye, and i keep returning double digit growth to them year after year, despite two of the last five years having slight or moderate market sector contractions.


So businesses don't just "give you money". The company compensates you for the work you do for it. It's an exchange, a trade, not a donation.




Back on topic...

Depends on industry, region, and many other factors. Sad to say, but cutting your hair, covering tattoos, taking out piercings, etc., only ever make things easier, never harder. If you're in IT or construction (industries where there's more leeway the further you are from the boardroom level), it might not be an issue. If you're in finance or mergers and acquisitions, or corporate law.... yeah. Get a haircut.

If you have any doubt at all, then I recommend a cut, and let it grow back in once you land a job you think you'll stay at for a while. Usually once you prove yourself on a job, they pretty much don't care what your hair looks like if you are a producer for the company, and you take even a minimum amount of effort to take care of it.


For what its worth i feel your pain. I used to have long hair, i have 5 tats, two of which are visible in short sleeves, and a few piercings.

The hair is now quite short, the tats are mostly covered up when i'm at the office, and the piercings are long since taken out. BUT... not all for business reasons.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 10:08:07


Post by: Howard A Treesong


It does seem an attitude particularly common among US people, that an employer should be allowed to do almost anything they like and the employee suck it up and be grateful they were even given a job. Employment is a contract that goes both ways, you do a task and are compensated for it. It's not charity so why the attitude that you should be endlessly grateful for 'being given money' and not question your treatment? Bizarre.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 10:38:39


Post by: notprop


Right on brother!

But in real world corporate culture, get your hair cut and wear the smartest suit you can afford, make sure your tie doesn't clash with your shirt, which is to say wear a white shirt. Fit in with the culture you are joining.

You can let our hair grow back after you get the job, of course then you'll be he scruffy non conformist who doesn't get promoted while slick looking smucks get the nod.

It's work in an office, we don't do it because we love but because it pays.

In London long hair is for women, poshboys who are having midlife crisis' and IT menials.

Welcome new drone, may your paperwork be never ending!


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 11:11:27


Post by: Howard A Treesong


Personally I wouldn't have long hair as there too much risk of catching headlice off the children I work with.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 12:42:11


Post by: nkelsch


 dogma wrote:
nkelsch wrote:

I also don't hide from my 'flaws'...


I sincerely doubt that.
Nice snarky backhand insult. Very smart.



nkelsch wrote:

...but "you shouldn't search that stuff' is not a defense and it is not only regularly done but common practice...


I never claimed otherwise.
So you admit is is regularly done, but claim people shouldn't work for employers who do it... and then when I say that leaves a shallow pool of prospective employers and limits your options you try to say "But But! I have a fantastic job and make more than you!"... Are you hiring? Can everyone who has bad social media footprints work for you maybe? Or maybe they need to be conscious and realize employers regularly check that stuff.

nkelsch wrote:

...especially in companies with HR departments who literally have people with full time jobs which do nothing but google incoming resumes and background check new hires.


There is a massive difference between a Google search and a background check.
So checking if someone has a criminal background is ok... but checking if someone posts about how they hate their employer or is a raging bigot is 'evil' even when both tendencies directly impact the workplace?

nkelsch wrote:
Sounds like even your company checked your social media and questioned you about it during your interview.


How does it sound like that? Please explain.
How do your potential employers know your 'flaws' unless they egosearch you? They literally know nothing about you outside your resume and what they investigate about you. A good HR should at a minimum verify your employment and get references which by its very nature can overlap with social media.

nkelsch wrote:

You would be surprised how many people lie about credentials and freak out when the first thing upon being hired is submitting to a background check to verify criminal record and university degrees. Social media is just the tip of the iceburg.


No, I wouldn't. Because I am not (and never was) a lazy boss, but I also never gave a damn about anything an employee did outside the workplace.


So Background checks to check for criminal history is ok... but checking if someone brags on social media openly about playing hookey or hangover days is 'unfair'? What about the wide array of raging bigots on the internet? You want to hire someone with a history of public bigotry via social media or is 'personal life, personal life'? You can make personal calls about what you do or do not care about, but often actions 'done outside the work place' directly impact work and are relevant and companies check this stuff both to protect themselves but their other employees as well.

If you don't want to censor yourself on social media, and don't want to be held accountable for your actions on the net... Your job opportunities are going to be limited severely in today's age where the economy is weak, jobs are scarce and it is so easy for HR departments to research you and your actions. Blaming companies for checking social media and invading your 'privacy' won't pay your bills.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It does seem an attitude particularly common among US people, that an employer should be allowed to do almost anything they like and the employee suck it up and be grateful they were even given a job. Employment is a contract that goes both ways, you do a task and are compensated for it. It's not charity so why the attitude that you should be endlessly grateful for 'being given money' and not question your treatment? Bizarre.


Because you sign away your rights in exchange for employment here, and in most states you can be fired at any time, for virtually no reason with no recourse. And salaried employees, where you are not on an hourly wage, the company does extend its control because often they own all your 'working time' because you are salaried. This means no overtime, working after hours, not selling your personal time to other employers. You can question your treatment, and be fired or conveniently 'laid off' next downsizing and there is nothing you can do about it in most cases.

And in times of employee scarcity, employees can push back. In times of job scarcity, if you don't like the terms of employment, someone else will. I remember late 90's when shorts and flipflops in the office made a comeback because good employees were hard to find and were given latitude. Those same offices and employees are wearing different clothes 15 years later.

I blame the 80s. But railing against 'how things are' doesn't get you a paycheck.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 13:05:05


Post by: Iron_Captain


nkelsch wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It does seem an attitude particularly common among US people, that an employer should be allowed to do almost anything they like and the employee suck it up and be grateful they were even given a job. Employment is a contract that goes both ways, you do a task and are compensated for it. It's not charity so why the attitude that you should be endlessly grateful for 'being given money' and not question your treatment? Bizarre.


Because you sign away your rights in exchange for employment here, and in most states you can be fired at any time, for virtually no reason with no recourse. And salaried employees, where you are not on an hourly wage, the company does extend its control because often they own all your 'working time' because you are salaried. This means no overtime, working after hours, not selling your personal time to other employers. You can question your treatment, and be fired or conveniently 'laid off' next downsizing and there is nothing you can do about it in most cases.

And in times of employee scarcity, employees can push back. In times of job scarcity, if you don't like the terms of employment, someone else will. I remember late 90's when shorts and flipflops in the office made a comeback because good employees were hard to find and were given latitude. Those same offices and employees are wearing different clothes 15 years later.

I blame the 80s. But railing against 'how things are' doesn't get you a paycheck.
And that is why we need the government to protect us from the evil employers. Like in the Netherlands, where there are a lot of legal obligations a employer has to fulfill before they can check their potential employee's social media.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/08 23:41:21


Post by: dogma


nkelsch wrote:
Nice snarky backhand insult. Very smart.


I didn't intend my comment as an insult. Rather I was observing that your argument is predicated upon hiding flaws.

nkelsch wrote:

So you admit is is regularly done, but claim people shouldn't work for employers who do it... and then when I say that leaves a shallow pool of prospective employers and limits your options you try to say "But But! I have a fantastic job and make more than you!"... Are you hiring? Can everyone who has bad social media footprints work for you maybe? Or maybe they need to be conscious and realize employers regularly check that stuff.


No, I don't. I admit that it is done , but I would say that it isn't done regularly enough to leave a "shallow pool of prospective employers".

nkelsch wrote:
So checking if someone has a criminal background is ok... but checking if someone posts about how they hate their employer or is a raging bigot is 'evil' even when both tendencies directly impact the workplace?


That isn't what I said. To clarify: if a job requires a background check it is usually laid out upfront, much like a job that requires the passage of a drug test, or the passage of a physical. I suppose that an employer might add "Must pass social network examination." to a job listing, but that seems rather intrusive.

nkelsch wrote:
How do your potential employers know your 'flaws' unless they egosearch you?


By reading my resume, complete with cover letter, and interviewing me.

nkelsch wrote:

A good HR should at a minimum verify your employment and get references which by its very nature can overlap with social media.


Why would an HR department try to acquire references that aren't provided? You're making it seem as though most jobs require something akin to security clearance, which is false.

nkelsch wrote:

What about the wide array of raging bigots on the internet? You want to hire someone with a history of public bigotry via social media or is 'personal life, personal life'?


Sure, so long as he does his job to an acceptable standard. As has been well documented the way people behave on the internet is very different from the way they behave in real life. For example, I highly doubt you're as hyperbolic IRL as you seem to be here.

nkelsch wrote:

Blaming companies for checking social media and invading your 'privacy' won't pay your bills.


Well, that really depends on how creative you are.



Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/10 18:57:49


Post by: Stevefamine


 KiloFiX wrote:
When I was volunteering at a clinic on weekends I'd see tons of people come in for company mandated pre-hire drug testing - from truckers, to auto plant workers, to even investment bankers.

This was in the US.

Funny thing was that many people would ask me directly if there was a way to avoid pot showing up on the tests.

I told them, from what I heard, it really didn't matter if pot showed up. (I actually did hear from one of the banks, and one of the plants that they didn't really care about pot).


My job had a building wide drug test the week after 4/20

4 Employees dropped out of 200~ lol




Great thread btw - informative


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/10 19:01:00


Post by: hotsauceman1


If I'm right, there has to be a certain amount of pot to disqualify you.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/10 19:41:23


Post by: Sigvatr


If everyone doing pot would be fired, a lot of high tier managers would be unemployed pretty darn fast. Quite a few of the people I know regularly smoke weed to calm down after work.


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/10 19:47:00


Post by: Desubot


 Sigvatr wrote:
If everyone doing pot would be fired, a lot of high tier managers would be unemployed pretty darn fast. Quite a few of the people I know regularly smoke weed to calm down after work.


Its a lot less stringent over in the Europe no?

Anyway those guys that dropped out probably didnt know and just assumed they should drop


Jobs and hair @ 2015/03/10 19:49:48


Post by: Sigvatr


 Desubot wrote:
 Sigvatr wrote:
If everyone doing pot would be fired, a lot of high tier managers would be unemployed pretty darn fast. Quite a few of the people I know regularly smoke weed to calm down after work.


Its a lot less stringent over in the Europe no?

Anyway those guys that dropped out probably didnt know and just assumed they should drop


I don't think there's much of a difference between the US and EU, at least not from the people I know. US managers often claim, however, that the EU is a lot more lax about drugs in some parts. We often have meetings in Amsterdam / Den Haag and..well...*wink*

It mostly boils down to "getting away with it", imo. I've seen interns getting shouted at by superiors because they smelled the weed, but in end, I'd say it was the usual "Look at me, I can shout people down, I'm important!" behavior. Marking your territory n' stuff. Frazzlin' it. Woof.