Maelstrom's Edge, both game and terrain, is now available for direct purchase at maelstromsedge.com
Here's a teaser of the new faction:
Here's a recent let's play video:
Here's an unboxing video (search youtube for more)
And here's a general overview of the game:
Thanks for your interest and support!
old first post:
Spoiler:
--
It is with great pleasure that I can at long last announce that Dakka has been working on a game and it is coming out soon - Maelstrom's Edge.
Yakface, myself and a team of 6 others have been working on this project for over 3 years. We have injection moulded plastic models finished and ready to show, with tournament quality rules written by Jon Regul (yakface). It is a squad-based skirmish game (about 20-30 models per side), and every model is multi-part and multi-pose, so there is massive potential for easy conversions and part swaps.
We spent the first 18 months developing a science fiction universe unlike any other. Maelstrom's Edge is a distinct, unique and deep universe that can and will stand independently of the game. Enough talk, here's some teaser visuals!
Maelstrom's Edge is a far future science fiction setting where a golden age of exploration and innovation has been ripped apart and humanity is on the very edge of annihilation. The Maelstrom, a gigantic apocalyptic explosion of dark energy, is rapidly expanding out from the heart of the galaxy, destroying everything it touches. As worlds and stars are obliterated from existence, those who have the means flee towards deep space, while those left behind fight for the chance to escape.
For millennia before this catastrophe, humanity spread across the galaxy at sub-light speed, painstakingly eking out an existence in space and on barely habitable worlds. Then the cybel network was discovered. A gossamer web of dark energy threads stretching between every star, the cybel network allowed humanity to colonise thousands of worlds across the galaxy's spiral arm. All the progress that the cybel network brought, the Maelstrom took away. The Maelstrom erupted from the centre of humanity's worlds a millennium ago, racing down the cybel tunnels, splitting them apart and spilling their destructive energy out into real space.
The Edge is a stormfront, light years wide, where real space meets the Maelstrom’s tide of roiling, coruscating energy. The apocalypse is coming inexorably to every planet on the Edge. In the decades leading up the Maelstrom's arrival, every person is forced to make a choice about how they want to live the remainder of their existence. Unite or divide, give or take, fight or die. Those living on the edge are not bulletproof or elite. They are ordinary people caught up in a bewildering cataclysm, their only goal to survive as best they can.
The destruction wrought by the Maelstrom has led to conflict between many of the remaining organisations and governments. The competing corporations of the Epirian Foundation made their fortunes using advanced robotics and geo-engineering to alter worlds for colonisation. Now as the Maelstrom approaches, the Epirians are forced to abandon these worlds, using their enlisted soldiers and retrofitted robots to defend their interests.
Diametrically opposed to the Epirian Foundation’s interests are the Karist Enclave, a secretive group of religious zealots. They believe that if you are mentally and physically prepared, the Maelstrom will not destroy you, but instead you will ascend to a higher plane of existence. The Karists use vials of altered cybel energy to 'commune' with the Maelstrom, achieving a trance-like state they associate with ascension.
The refugees, revolutionaries, pirates and mercenaries that are left behind on abandoned worlds are collectively known as the Broken. Poor humans team up with abandoned aliens, desperately swarming worlds near the edge as they try to survive as long as they can. Against the implacable onslaught of the Maelstrom, every dockworker, farmer, CEO and mercenary is faced with the same dilemma: what will you do to survive?
We already have two novels available now (US link)(UK link) so that you can start enjoying the universe in great depth before the game comes out. We'll have limited edition first print copies of the novels available for purchase at Salute and a short story compilation is due to be released in the very near future too. We've got some big names working on the fiction over the coming year.
Multi-part, multi-pose plastic is quite literally the hardest and most complex material to work in, and each model has been a huge undertaking. Every model we make has been superior to the previous one, and our first set of models are fantastic, so we can promise you that the latest stuff is absolutely amazing. We reject anything that does not make the grade for us as hobbyists, and will only ever release models that we want to build and use ourselves. The anticipation of getting our plastics in hand has been intense and there has been a constant flurry of paint and glue as we all love putting these things together and seeing the Maelstrom's Edge universe in the flesh. We've stuck to the 28-32mm sweet spot for scale to allow us to maintain compatibility with our existing bits boxes, battlefields, buildings and terrain. Talk is cheap though, so here are a few pictures of our earliest models. All of these are finished product (not prototypes), and 100% multipart plastic:
A game would not be anything without amazing rules. For many years, yakface supported the tournament scene with the INATFAQ, fixing the rules of others and being personally thanked many times by many in the industry for his talents. He is widely regarded as one of the greatest rules authorities in the world and Dakka is largely built on the back of his rules knowledge and capability. It is no surprise that he's had a ruleset in the back of his mind for decades and it is now realised in the form of the Maelstrom's Edge tabletop game. There are so many unique ideas and concepts in the game that it can truly be described as a next generation wargame and will serve as a point of inspiration for other game developers for many years to come. We'll slowly leak out those unique points between now and launch to keep the excitement building.
Maelstrom's Edge is a squad-based skirmish scale game in which small units of 3-5 models are used alongside individual models. The turn mechanism features alternate activation (with a twist) so there is no waiting around for someone to move their entire force. The game features a great suppression mechanism through cinematic blast markers. Subtle front and rear firing arc markers are moulded in to the bases of the models making measurements simple. Most importantly, every unit is completely distinct in form and function, so there is no min-maxing as every unit has distinct strengths and weaknesses that complement and counter each other. At the same time, we guarantee that there will be no obsolescence of units and models, so when you invest the time and money in building a force, you'll know that it will be playable in some form forever.
We started this project before Kickstarter took off in the wargaming world and based on the strength of the team alone we were able to secure enough funding to create an entire starter box set in real plastic. As we saw kickstarter deliver huge audiences and secured funding to other wargaming companies out there, we adjusted our release plan to start work on additional plastic models beyond the initial box set contents with a view to running a Kickstarter to raise the funds for the physical production, shipping and marketing elements of the plan. It is safe to say that this will be an incredibly low risk Kickstarter for anyone who wants to get first dibs on the game as the project is largely complete at the moment and should ship well before the end of the year. Our only major projected delay will be the beta testing and printing of the rulebook and related shipping. The models are close to completion and have very little work left to be retail ready, with production moving at a great and stable pace.
To show things off in the flesh, we'll be attending Salute 2015 in London's Excel centre on April 25th, so make sure you get tickets and come by our booth located at TE05 - Spiral Arm Studios (our UK spinoff company) to see the models, have a chat with us and see more of the Maelstrom's Edge universe ahead of its in depth release over the course of this year.
We'll be launching our Kickstarter at the end of April and can already confirm that it will be jointly shipping from the UK and US so there will be no customs duties to worry about for those of you living in the EU or the USA. More information will be slowly coming out between now and then in a controlled manner so that we don't end up with blank news periods, so thank you for your patience as we show more and more things at a slow but steady pace.
We know you will have many questions and you'll be eager to see as much as we can show you, but there will be a slow and controlled release of information over the coming month. Please have patience and enjoy our teasers as we show you our hard work!
Finally, please follow Maelstrom's Edge on facebook and twitter. You'll see news there before anywhere else so it is the best way to keep up with the project. If you don’t use those, then please put in your email address at http://www.maelstromsedge.com to get on the mailing list so you can see all of our updates as and when they happen!
Creating Maelstrom's Edge is the most exciting thing we've done with Dakka since taking over in 2007 and it is absolutely nerve-wracking! Your support is so very welcome as this game has been made for everyone who has been looking for a new world-class game and we know from the discussions here on Dakka that encapsulates a lot of people. We are building a sci-fi universe that will last for generations and you are here right at the start so thank you for standing with us and giving us the inspiration and base from which to build!
Thank you for reading this far!
- legoburner and the Spiral Arm Studios team
--
Squad pictures added 14 April:
--
FAQS Are there aliens or is this universe exclusively human?
The human/alien divide was a tough one to navigate but our universe is roughly akin to Star Wars in terms of the level of aliens and their integration with society, especially in the fiction and background. We've aimed for a nice balance of humans, aliens and robotics with our first load of miniatures though at the infantry level it is largely human due to market demand projections.
Are there any non-human infantry models planned?
Lots! We are in the studio painting phase for plenty of beautiful aliens and robots at the moment and will be releasing images of them over the next few weeks. We find that the best looking forces across any game use a nice variety of compatible troops, and so we have been very determined from day one to avoid creating 'yet another generic sci-fi human force' for any of our factions.
What manufacturers are you using?
We've used a few companies both inside and outside the industry, but they are all very clear that they do not like being mentioned for various reasons so we are unable to give specifics without risking our relationships and contracts. We are actively using three at the moment to help us mitigate any potential delays and have had good success with all three.
Will the story progress or be set in one instant in time?
We are progressing the storyline but will not be invalidating any models. There will be a lot going on with all sorts of events and major changes of circumstances planned over the very long term, yet the forces you build at the start will still be viable in some form in the future as well. It will be a very slow pace of movement, but it will be moving forwards.
How many factions are planned?
5 factions are in heavy development, but it will just be two for the first 18 months at least. The lead time for development, design and testing is huge so we are more focused on making the Epirians and Karists the best they can be, with lots of potential for off-shoot factions and blue vs blue fights. You probably wont see any other factions outside of the fiction until next year but The Broken, The Remnant Fleet and the Kaigus Pact are all in active development.
What kind of units can we expect?
The game is focused around the infantry scale primarily. Tanks and similar tend to be big cash sinks and time sinks for development that we think would be better spent elsewhere for now, so there is no immediate rush on them though a few early designs and plans are floating around. There will be infantry, smaller scale stuff and larger things around the size of a small dreadnought in our first couple of release tranches. From personal preference, much larger things tend to mess up the feeling of scale on the battlefield as well which we are eager to keep 'tight' given the 20-30 model force preference in our ruleset.
Sprue Pictures added 14 April:
Scale reference pictures added 17 April:
Additional Colour Schemes added 18 April:
Epirian Hunter Robot (48mm tall)
Epirian Drones:
Spider Drones
Firefly Drones
Group Shot
The drones have 4 weapon options, though 2 are specific to each drone type and one will not have any rules written for them initially as they were done as decorative elements initially, but ended up looking so good we were able to fit them on the sprue. Lots and lots of flexibility with these models though, you'll want a good pile of them in your Epirian forces!
Karist Enclave Angel Minnows:
Karist Minnows
From the rear, showing the complete lack of seams, amazing build quality and great curve of the wings
A Karist family photo
Tokens for Maelstrom's Edge:
Terrain:
Our terrain allows you to take a simple object, or build a simple shape out of card, balsa or foamcore, and cut some holes in it and stick in our plastic:
Then end up with a fantastic building once painted and weathered:
Here's a bunch more examples, all made using standard hobby materials and our terrain sprue:
I'm so excited to see this revealed!! Lego, Yak and their team have been so hard at work on this over the last few years, to see it unveiled (with more to come) is just awesome!
I really like the Karists especially, and hope to see more on the Broken later on
Wow those are some great looking miniatures, especially the Karsit trooper really like his helmet design will definitely be picking some of those up and the art, words can't describe how amazing those works are 'The Malestorm' is eerily beautiful.
Can't wait to see what else you're going to come out with, it's clear that you've put a lot of work into all of this. Congrats to all involved
Excited and suitably impressed enough to wish i had money to put down on it (I am almost completely broke at the moment.) Will follow with interest. Also, exalt to Lego!
I am certainly intrigued, the work that has give into this looks mighty impressive. The 20-30 mini scale is one I enjoy a lot, and not one a lot of games cater for, so I shall be keeping a close eye!
With a few plastic sprues sitting on my hobby desk right now, I can guarantee that they are pretty and the equivalent of anything else in the business.
This looks great! Clearly a lot of work has gone into this, with great background, pictures, and models. Excited to see where this goes and i'll be definitely tagging along...
One word of warning though: i heard from a reliable source that GW are on an IP hunt... and they take no prisoners
So will this game have a set of Mod Cubes designed for it?
Looks pretty interesting. Commenting now so I will see the release so as to check out the kickstarter. Neither faction shown is gripping me as something I *must have* , but both seem pretty solid. The heavy armor dude is pretty neat, for instance.
I'll probably pledge something simply to support Dakka, a more personally justifiable expense than DCM, I guess. And if there's a faction or unit that just jumps up and grabs me, so be it.
The size of the game is also promising, Deadzone and Infinity are fine but sometimes you want some more guys on the board, but not a horde of them like 40k can be.
I'll be watching with interest!
*edit* seeing a larger version of the Karist basic troopers... I like them more than I did at first glance. There's something about the Contractors that's putting me off and I can't resolve it. I dunno if I think they look a bit stocky or if maybe the shoulder pads are grating on my aesthetic... they look good but I'm not finding myself interested. Which is a shame because the aesthetic would fit with some of my other minis.
Would it be possible to give an idea of what the other factions are supposed to be, at least story wise? Also, would the basics of the gameplay be something you could talk about or is it too early for that? Looks great by the way, definitely plan to look into it later on.
Hi everybody, my name's Tomas L. Martin and I'm one of the two lead fiction writers on the Maelstrom's Edge project. Whilst lego has been hard at work organising the whole project and yakface has been writing a really amazing ruleset, Stephen Gaskell and myself, as well as technical writer Jon Last, have been slaving away designing a deep science fiction universe for people to get lost in, and hundreds of thousands of words of fiction set in that universe, kicking off with the launch of our first two novels, Maelstrom's Edge: Faith and Maelstrom's Edge: Sacrifice, available on Kindle now! The novels are a backdrop to the first box set, the Battle for Zycanthus, as the Epirian Foundation defends the planet of Zycanthus against the infiltration of the Karist Enclave.
I'm a scientist (my day job is in a lab at the University of Oxford) and writer (with a bunch of published stories in various places), but I'm also a gamer. I've been wargaming for about twenty years. I got into the project when lego approached me on dakka - and I hope that my experience as a wargamer has resulted in a background for the game that will get you all excited.
Hopefully that gives you an idea of the kind of universe we're aiming for here - gritty but not grimdark, imaginative but realistic, and morally ambiguous. I really proud of what we've come up with, and I think there's already a bunch of fantastic stories we've been able to tell, with plenty more to come. We want to make Maelstrom's Edge a setting you want to return to, both to read fiction by a host of great writers, but also to make stories of your own.
Whaaat! I would back this based on my positive feelings for Dakka alone, but count me in for the good looking and ready to go plastic miniatures as well!
This is so exciting! Congrats to all involved. This KS is going to be crazy fun.
Thanks for the kind feedback everyone, it is really motivating to hear positive things as you might imagine, and helps justify the huge amount of work we've put in to date.
Ruglud, there are a few images buried around the facebook page and website which are not in this thread yet, but there are plenty more yet to come as well We've got loads of artwork and colourschemes completed already, and will be showing more distinct models as the kickstarter approaches.
3dog, we wont be going in to much detail on the other factions before the kickstarter as we don’t want to unfairly build anticipation for them over the two factions that do have lots of models created for, and to make it clear that each of our factions is made up of a large number of sub-factions and is quite capable of blue-on-blue fights without needing cheesy situations. There are hints of them towards the end of the second novel though
yakface will be chiming in with some thoughts and notes on the gameplay and interesting and unique elements of the rules over the next few days so stay tuned!
I just looked at the two books, well the covers. Those walkers on the cover of the first book, cover artist's embellishment or is that the aesthetic of the robots in this setting? Because ohmagerdz!
Great looking stuff so far. Not sure how much I'll be able to chip in on the KS, but it'll definitely be something; being a Dakkaite since it was a B&M store I'm just about obligated.
Massive kudos to everyone involved. It looks stunning (both the models and art work).
I've been testing the waters with non-GW games this past 4-5 months, playing X-wing, conquest and a few other board games. I'm looking forward to giving this a shot!
And I just checked my Nook (ereader) and the ME:Faith & Sacrifice aren't available there :( Which is a damn shame because I've been looking for a book that really grabs my attention - and those two certainly do!
Got a smartphone of any kind? Kindle app is free, that's what I'm gonna use to give the first one a try. The chapter it lets you read is intriguing enough to take a chance.
Well... This is certainly unexpected! But... It looks awesome! I'm instantly interested, and it has nothing to do with "Dakka is doing it". The background sounds a lot more interesting than, say, the goofy Manticverse, and the model count sounds extremely interesting! Is it about the scale of Bolt Action? I love skirmish but yeah, sometimes you want more models without going apocalypse crazy.
The models are a mixed bag for me so far. The karists really hit the right notes. Love the helmets and colors. I want them right now! The Epirians... Yeah, not feeling it at all. They look very blocky, and remind me a bit of Thunderbird dolls. They also have assless chaps. Their poses seem a bit static despite being multi pose?
That criticism aside, I'm really liking the look of this project. If the KS has other Epirians that look better than these, I will be all in!
Looks good and congrats on getting one big step closer to release. Now that dakkadakka.com will have an "official" website game, will the forum still be the official forum of other now competing games as well in the future?
Why do the Karist fight? What do they seek to achieve by attacking others? Alternatively, what do others seek to achieve by attacking them? From what has been said, their objectives seem trivially easy to achieve - all they need to do is not run away from the Maelstrom.
My main complaint about the miniatures is that they look too top heavy. The Karist Trooper's wearing tight pants and torso armour with huge shoulder guards, and the Epirian Contractor's legs look too short relative to the rest of the model.
Reading the first book, interesting so far but haven't gotten through much yet. The Karists picking up young refugees to ingratiate and indoctrinate them early is pretty smart *and* creepy
AlexHolker wrote: Why do the Karist fight? What do they seek to achieve by attacking others? Alternatively, what do others seek to achieve by attacking them? From what has been said, their objectives seem trivially easy to achieve - all they need to do is not run away from the Maelstrom.
This was something we put a lot of work into when we designed the fluff. The key is that the Karists believe that you need to prepare your mind and body for ascension when the Maelstrom takes you. They do this by meditation and in their commune rituals, where they expose themselves to low levels of na-cybel energy, a very dilute version of the energy at the edge of the Maelstrom. The Karist Way states that if you prepare youself in this way, then you will ascend, but otherwise you will be destroyed. For this reason many Karists want to take their beliefs to as many worlds as they can along the Edge, to show people the true meaning of ascension. Sometimes, as in the novel, their methods for doing this can seem rather extreme, but they firmly believe that it is the right thing to do.
As a writer it was really interesting to write fiction from the point of view of the Karists. We really wanted to create a universe where each faction had a legitimate motive for fighting, and the Karists were the most interesting to portray. They believe incredibly strongly in ascension, which can lead them to doing some things that others might find objectionable - but to them it's the only way to save humanity.
AlexHolker wrote: Why do the Karist fight? What do they seek to achieve by attacking others? Alternatively, what do others seek to achieve by attacking them? From what has been said, their objectives seem trivially easy to achieve - all they need to do is not run away from the Maelstrom..
It's not just about being consumed by the Maelstrom... you have to be 'ready' for ascension in order to not just be obliterated. So they have their own preparations to make, but they're also seeking to 'save' humanity in the process.
Seriously, if you have smart phone or a tablet, grab yourself a copy of the books on Kindle and please, post reviews, tell people about it, you are all at the start of something incredible.
The world building is incredibly well thought out and well developed, the characters are engaging too.
Well, this is certainly a surprise! Can't wait to see more pictures of the miniatures, they look very promising. Hope the scale will be compatible with 40k, the epirians look like very promising guard-equivalents. The rules sound interesting as well.
Anyway, I wish you best luck with the project! And can't wait to see more!
Well, I did not see this coming at all! I'm very interested, not only because I wish to back an official Dakka game, but the setting does look interesting and the rules have a great potential to be very good! Plus it'll itch that scifi tabletop itch that 40k hasn't been able to for years.
GrimDork wrote:I just looked at the two books, well the covers. Those walkers on the cover of the first book, cover artist's embellishment or is that the aesthetic of the robots in this setting? Because ohmagerdz!
The range of robots is fairly diverse with those ones being fairly extreme as they are planetary scale terraforming machines which are too big to make as a model any time soon, but they do share some design DNA with the others that we are putting out. The first robots we show will be the smaller drones.
warboss wrote:Looks good and congrats on getting one big step closer to release. Now that dakkadakka.com will have an "official" website game, will the forum still be the official forum of other now competing games as well in the future?
We've spun this project off into an independent company (Spiral Arm Studios) that is not legally affiliated with Dakka, so that Dakka can remain a truly neutral place for wargaming discussion for all games including other official forums which will stay the same. We wont be changing anything about the way Dakka works except for during the Kickstarter when we'll have some fairly heavy adverts for this so that we can get full visibility across all of Dakka's pages.
I hope you guys are ready for this to go big As you've already got painted production level models to show off a lot of fears should be allayed, and the setting has a lot of potential. With the right mix of units for people to pledge... could do quite well indeed. To say nothing of the really high visibility you'll have on Dakka.
I'll probably be in for the rules at least, from day one, though I wouldn't be surprised if I pick up some random models, or perhaps the starter/sweet spot if I like enough of it. Especially if the drones you mention look somewhat like those teraformers, a little bit war of the worlds, a little bit of some other things... pretty neat.
warboss wrote: Looks good and congrats on getting one big step closer to release. Now that dakkadakka.com will have an "official" website game, will the forum still be the official forum of other now competing games as well in the future?
I just want to expand on this beyond what Lego said.
Since we purchased Dakka in 2007, we've had innumerable opportunities to potentially increase Dakka's revenue. From branding Dakka with a sponsor, to partnering with a web store, to adding more advertisements to the site, and so on. While we certainly considered all these types offers over the years, ultimately we felt that implementing them would lower the overall user experience, and that is the most important factor for us. The reason we purchased and run this site is because we loved it before we bought it and continue to love it now. We will not do anything we feel could or would damage it just for the sake of Maelstrom's Edge.
So while we will eventually have official Maelstrom's Edge forums in some capacity here on Dakka, our primary goal for the site is for it to remain a community centered on all of miniature gaming and with the best possible user experience. You can rest assured that absolutely nothing is going to change that.
Very interesting, and a rare thing to see something come "out of the blue" as it were...
So my first question, is are there rules for using "other" models in the game outside of the set factions?
But definitely going to have to dig into the rules and take a look. And, of course, watch the Kickstarter and see if there's anything there to tickle my fancy.
I'm really hoping that the rules land in (what I at least) see as something of a sweet spot between the GW rules (that manage to be -at their core- simple and dated whist simultanously being overly complex and bodged together) and rules like Infinity or Malufaux that are very sophisticated but don't quite reward "casual" play.
Best of luck and congrats for pullling something like this together. Here's hoping for a great launch and a great game!
I'm always interested in learning a new game-- I got my first taste of Infinity just today, in fact! I'm presuming there won't be some monetary barrier to access all of the rules and mini statlines? If that is to be the case, count me in! No more codex creep! Rah, rah!
So, Kickstarter at the end of the month. When are you guys hoping to get things shipped? I'm also curious what else will be in the intro box. Any kind of gaming mat/map? Any plans for your own terrain somewhere down the line?
Wow, congrats on your project. Looks really exciting. I'm really happy that you choose to use hips, since It's my prefered material.
As for the mini, i really like the karist, but the epiyrian, while very well done, are a bit too generic for me. But reading their background, it seems that they'll potentially have more distinctive features.
Eager to see the kickstarter, and their is a lot of chance that I back the project, cause even if I pretty much boycott ks these days because of the ridiculous delays most project suffer, the fact that the game is pretty much done means that it probably won't have this problem.
bbb wrote: What will be the standard size playing area?
The recommended play area is 4'x6', but it can be played on a 4'x4'.
The game features front/rear arcs for the units, and the ability to get around the flanks of units and shoot them in the rear tends to make the game a whole lot more exciting. In a 4'x4' game, this tends to be harder to accomplish (as there is less 'space' to get around the side of a unit) and therefore it is not the ideal table size...but it does still work overall.
I very much appreciate Dakka, so this has my attention.
In general I have to agree with what a few others have said: I find the Karists both visually and thematically interesting, but I'm not into the Epirians. Primarily that's down to body proportions, which seem off with the Epirians. (Keep in mind that I'd also criticize many of Games Workshop's models for similar issues. I'd never buy their Catachans, for example.)
As far as pledging goes, I could easily see putting down money for some Karists, provided that there are ways to do so which aren't punitively priced (since they aren't the "sweet spot" bundled package, etc.)
warboss wrote:Looks good and congrats on getting one big step closer to release. Now that dakkadakka.com will have an "official" website game, will the forum still be the official forum of other now competing games as well in the future?
We've spun this project off into an independent company (Spiral Arm Studios) that is not legally affiliated with Dakka, so that Dakka can remain a truly neutral place for wargaming discussion for all games including other official forums which will stay the same. We wont be changing anything about the way Dakka works except for during the Kickstarter when we'll have some fairly heavy adverts for this so that we can get full visibility across all of Dakka's pages.
yakface wrote:
warboss wrote: Looks good and congrats on getting one big step closer to release. Now that dakkadakka.com will have an "official" website game, will the forum still be the official forum of other now competing games as well in the future?
I just want to expand on this beyond what Lego said.
Since we purchased Dakka in 2007, we've had innumerable opportunities to potentially increase Dakka's revenue. From branding Dakka with a sponsor, to partnering with a web store, to adding more advertisements to the site, and so on. While we certainly considered all these types offers over the years, ultimately we felt that implementing them would lower the overall user experience, and that is the most important factor for us. The reason we purchased and run this site is because we loved it before we bought it and continue to love it now. We will not do anything we feel could or would damage it just for the sake of Maelstrom's Edge.
So while we will eventually have official Maelstrom's Edge forums in some capacity here on Dakka, our primary goal for the site is for it to remain a community centered on all of miniature gaming and with the best possible user experience. You can rest assured that absolutely nothing is going to change that.
Thanks for the timely, clear, and community centered answers. I don't play either of the games personally whose official forums are here but I always thought it was cool that you both did that for them and am glad to see it'll continue.
May I suggest a pledge level (assuming you didn't think of this already) that includes dakka DCM membership along with the game?
The game features front/rear arcs for the units [snip]
*Units* have firing arcs or *models* have firing arcs? An arbitrary firing arc for a unit doesn't seem like a mechanic that'd fit quite right in a skirmish game to me.
cygnnus wrote: *Units* have firing arcs or *models* have firing arcs? An arbitrary firing arc for a unit doesn't seem like a mechanic that'd fit quite right in a skirmish game to me.
We're using the term 'squad-based skirmish game' to describe Maelstrom's Edge because you're using smaller squads then you're used to in some games (like 40K, for example), and those squads have a variety of tactical choices to make (like a pure skirmish game typically has for each individual model).
However, it is very much squad-based mechanics in all regards. Units have a front/rear arc based on their squad leader model's position, which makes flanking a unit in this game something that is important.
That was exactly my question cygnnus. I guess it would come down to how firing is handled, but one should think that it would be squads shooting at squads but then how do you determine the squad's arc when each model has it's own indicators? And surely at upwards of 30 models we won't be rolling for models individually.
There's probably something elegant or at least sensible built in but it's beyond my understanding from the description so far.
Ninja'ed!
That makes sense then, as long as there's a clearly defined rule in place for figuring it out.
I have never joined in a Kickstarter. But I think this may be the first one I have ever participated in.
It's very rare that I get this excited about a release any more (I feel like a jaded old man or something ) but from everything I've seen with this project, the excitement is palpable!
cygnnus wrote: *Units* have firing arcs or *models* have firing arcs? An arbitrary firing arc for a unit doesn't seem like a mechanic that'd fit quite right in a skirmish game to me.
We're using the term 'squad-based skirmish game' to describe Maelstrom's Edge because you're using smaller squads then you're used to in some games (like 40K, for example), and those squads have a variety of tactical choices to make (like a pure skirmish game typically has for each individual model).
However, it is very much squad-based mechanics in all regards. Units have a front/rear arc based on their squad leader model's position, which makes flanking a unit in this game something that is important.
Ok. That, at least, makes sense. Squad-based rules are not a bad thing imho, just not what I was expecting in a ~30 model per side game. Still, I'm definitely intereted in seeing how you handle the game mechanics.
Please, please, please release a paper copy of the novels. Some of us just can't read ebooks as if they were real books.. And I really want to buy and read your novels.
Also, plastic miniatures are an interest of mine, so thank you for them.
warboss wrote: Will there be conversion rules to make up your own units/factions for use with other (nameless company) models?
That is not in the cards for the time being (and likely ever), but let me explain why.
There have been many, many games published over the years that have attempted to be systems that can accommodate any types of models by building your own units. While I find these game systems to be incredibly admirable, they never ultimately succeed for a couple of major reasons:
1) Many players tend to fall in love with the particular genre/universe of the game they're playing. The more well thought out that universe is, the more engaged players can become in it. Once you start introducing rules to allow players to build any type of unit from any other game, all of a sudden the focus of that game's universe becomes instantly muddled. Players walking by no longer see a game of Maelstrom's Edge, they see guys playing some game using models from a bunch of different manufacturers that may or may not be consistent in any way, shape or form.
Not to say that is bad at all, I'm very glad those systems exist in the world, but that is not what we're trying to accomplish. We're really proud and excited about the universe we've started to create and look forward to making it so rich and full of awesome models that you'll want to play with our minis.
2) Often when you make a system that can be used to build nearly any type of unit, it falls into a situation where it feels like the old 'jack of all trades, master of none', where the game plays *well enough* but is not focused enough to truly deliver an awesome experience. We are not trying to make this a trojan horse to take over 40k or something crazy like that. We are 100% focused on making the best damn 20-30 model sic-fi game there is, because it seemed to us that nobody out there has really been making that game for years and years now.
I am ridiculously excited for this. The universe sounds amazing and the minis look great! So glad you went for injection moulded plastic. Only thing I am worried about is having to wait for cool aliens! Plus everyone I have asked loves the look of the Karists, so I expect a lot of Karist vs Karist games in the months after release. I will definitely be there for the kickstarter though.
Are we looking at unit based special rules or universal special rules? Unit customization? If there is one thing I love in 40k, it's that.
Can you give us any hints here on dakka about some alien races? I know you want to focus on those who will come out first, but that's going to be my main draw in the long run.
yakface wrote: We are 100% focused on making the best damn 20-30 model sic-fi game there is, because it seemed to us that nobody out there has really been making that game for years and years now.
Hopefully this will take off and you can look at making the best damn starship combat game somewhere down the line...
I noticed the bases but they were part of my confusion. You said the leader's placement was what determined facing for being flanked and all, but why does each individual grunt need such a base then? I'm sure you've got it all figured out, I'm just being a bit dense Mostly because it really *is* a neat concept that I'd like to see work.
GrimDork wrote: I noticed the bases but they were part of my confusion. You said the leader's placement was what determined facing for being flanked and all, but why does each individual grunt need such a base then? I'm sure you've got it all figured out, I'm just being a bit dense Mostly because it really *is* a neat concept that I'd like to see work.
In-game promotions? Ease of only needing one type of base?
Yeah, I assume both of those are possible, maybe if the leader dies you have to pick a new one. And the latter certainly makes sense. I just wanted to pick the developer's brain since he was around and answering questions
GrimDork wrote: I noticed the bases but they were part of my confusion. You said the leader's placement was what determined facing for being flanked and all, but why does each individual grunt need such a base then? I'm sure you've got it all figured out, I'm just being a bit dense Mostly because it really *is* a neat concept that I'd like to see work.
Yeah, once you go down the route to make that type of base, you're kind of all in (that's how HIPs works)! And besides, it is unlikely, but possible to lose your squad leader before the other models in the unit, in which case another model does have to take over, so having the notched base on all your guys makes this possible.
Plus it is recommended that models are always turned to face the same direction of the squad leader to make it 100% clear which direction the squad is facing, so having the notches on every base helps in this regard as well (and if you screw up and some guys aren't facing the same way, the squad leader's facing always takes precedence anyway).
Funny enough I've been trying to develop a 20 to 30 model skirmish game with a suppression mechanic here on Dakka since I joined in 2011. First with 40k, now with 28mm WW2.
IMO this game is set up for absolute success. Its almost as if you buys listened to what people were asking for and made business out of it...
I agree with the notion that ME should stick with ME figures. Rulesets that have a concurrent model line always seem to succeed over those who do not.
Though I'm not too keen on the Empirians, im confident that as the game gathers momentum the models will get better and better (Keeping in mind we have yet to even see all models currently available).
I've never backed a kick starter so this will be my first. Considering that many of us have given money to Dakka at some time or another merely out of love of the website, I'm fairly confident that there will be plenty of monies coming toward ME.
Very excited to support this in every way that I can.
Wasn't expecting this at all. Thought I had missed an Aprul Fools joke
This looks excellent and seems to fill a void that I've been looking for for a while now, aka a 20-30 model per side skirmish game.
I like the look of the mercs although I'm curious why you used the chaps. It looks like they wear a basic set of coveralls or something then put on the chaps and vest/armor separately. Care to explain the purpose of it?
Also, what kind of forces are we going to see in the starter box? Enough to make a full "army" for the game or enough to play say 10 per side (say roughly 1/3rd the normal game size)
Finally, how modular are these starter box unit sprues going to be? The best starter boxes are flexible and allow for a lot of applications of their units, while still providing the meat and potato options should you want more. I felt dropzone commader did a good job of this as everyone I ever talked to said "just buy a starter or two and you're golden". Same with bolt Action's assault on Normandy set, where they just threw in regular sprues of Germans and US GI's which could make NCO'S, LT's, riflemen, machine gunners, snipers, anti tank soldiers, and even observers or medics with clever conversion. A good starter set can make or break a game for a lot of people so I'm interested to see what it has.
I'll be waiting eagerly for the kickstarter, even though I swore I'd never back another, I think Ill let you guys be an exception.
Lots of great questions so here are those from page 3...
gigasnail wrote:looks sharp. can we see some sprues?
Thanks! We will be happy to show some sprues fairly soon, most likely on Tuesday. We have to pace ourselves on the reveals because plastic model development is an extremely slow and complex process, so if we put out images of everything right off the bat, we'd have little to show between now and the delivery of the kickstarter. As such we are releasing pictures of models, sprues, artwork, colour schemes, etc according to a detailed schedule. Naturally there will be a lot shown at the start of the kickstarter so that everyone is armed with the most accurate information about the project possible.
warboss wrote: May I suggest a pledge level (assuming you didn't think of this already) that includes dakka DCM membership along with the game?
DCM status is a gift that people give Dakka rather than a perk we provide to users, so we have a long standing policy of never presenting it as something that is merely purchased. On top of that, we really are legally distinct entities, so taking money in to Spiral Arm Studios then giving rewards via Dakka would mean some jumping through accounting hoops.
bbb wrote:What will the Kickstarter "sweet spot" be in terms of pledging to get the most bang for your buck?
Will this have a full retail release or be geared towards internet sales?
Will rules be available for free online?
It is highly likely that the sweet spot will be $110, though we'll have a lot of options above and below that to fit whatever amount people are comfortable spending. We wont show what that package entails until right before the kickstarter though so that we can finalise artwork and give a really great first impression. On the whole we'll probably be a bit cagey on prices and details before the kickstarter so that we dont have to back track on things as the final projections are calculated with the last few quotes we are waiting on.
We have complete intention for this to be a full on retail release.
The full ruleset will not be available for free online because it has cost us a lot of time and money to develop. We will provide a basic introduction to the rules when the kickstarter launches so that everyone can get a good handle on how the game will play, but the large amount of cost benefit analysis we've done on other rulesets has shown that it simply works out better for the health of the game for them not to be free online. On Dakka we focus entirely on providing everything for free with as little advertising as possible so it is a bit against our nature having to put a price tag on such things, but we'll be sure to make the rules easily available at a very competitive price point.
Alfndrate wrote:The scenic artwork looks awesome, and sufficiently sci-fi
Can we see more of those types of images?
We have a massive library of artwork now, but again we must tease to the point of making you all ravenous as it is costly and time consuming to produce, so we have to balance it carefully. There will be lots of little bits of teasers such as the covers of the novels, and full artwork will be revealed at a fairly steady pace, especially throughout the time the kickstarter is active (May basically).
BobtheInquisitor wrote:Please, please, please release a paper copy of the novels. Some of us just can't read ebooks as if they were real books.. And I really want to buy and read your novels.
We are doing a first limited print run but will only be selling them in person at Salute in London. The intention is to go to a full print run but to get decent distribution that requires partnering with a large publishing company, and getting a good deal with good promotion for such requires us to have a bit of weight behind us first, so a full print run wont be until later in the year at the earliest once we have the gamer numbers to back us up.
Zatsuku wrote:Can you give us any hints here on dakka about some alien races? I know you want to focus on those who will come out first, but that's going to be my main draw in the long run.
We'll be showing the first alien models within the next week or so - those who fight alongside the Karists, but beyond that we'll be focusing on our initial two factions simply because there is so much to cover with them.
MrMoustaffa wrote:Wasn't expecting this at all. Thought I had missed an April Fools joke
I like the look of the mercs although I'm curious why you used the chaps. It looks like they wear a basic set of coveralls or something then put on the chaps and vest/armor separately. Care to explain the purpose of it?
Also, what kind of forces are we going to see in the starter box? Enough to make a full "army" for the game or enough to play say 10 per side (say roughly 1/3rd the normal game size)
Finally, how modular are these starter box unit sprues going to be? The best starter boxes are flexible and allow for a lot of applications of their units, while still providing the meat and potato options should you want more. I felt dropzone commader did a good job of this as everyone I ever talked to said "just buy a starter or two and you're golden". Same with bolt Action's assault on Normandy set, where they just threw in regular sprues of Germans and US GI's which could make NCO'S, LT's, riflemen, machine gunners, snipers, anti tank soldiers, and even observers or medics with clever conversion. A good starter set can make or break a game for a lot of people so I'm interested to see what it has.
We were very tempted to reveal it on April 1st, but alas the timing was not quite perfect with regards to having everything completely locked down and ready to present.
I'll let a fiction guy chime in on the chaps, but they do operate largely on partially/barely terraformed worlds which means lots of desert, sand, etc which benefits from additional protection from the elements. One funny thing on the chaps was that the initial sculpt for them did not put any fabric texture on the buttocks, so when we 3D print tested them, they had perfectly smooth buttocks. Change request number 1 was to add some creases to the clothing there!
The starter box will make a good game. The final content is dependent on just how our margins work out once we get into stretch goal territory. The most conservative measure gives it about 2/3rd the size of a 'normal' game, but still more than enough for a solid game.
I'm glad you asked about the modularity. I suspect that these will be the amongst most modular models you've ever seen in a starter set. We are using the same sprues in the starter set as the individual unit boxes, so you'll have a huge array of choices right out of the box. The Karist Troopers alone have 4 weapon options, The Tempests have 2 weapon options and the Epirians have 3 weapon options. To keep things logistically simple, it works out best for us if people just want to buy multiple copies of the starter set, so we are trying to make the value of that starter set absolutely exceptional.
Will there be EB/limited pledge levels?
Nope, it is not fair to our fans across multiple timezones and we will deliver the best possible value to everyone rather than the lucky few that jump in quickly. We are not expecting to have much trouble hitting the target and building buzz which is the main reason people use EB and limited pledges.
A final decision on Print on Demand has not been made just yet, but it would not be this side of the kickstarter. Bug me after Salute (25th April) and if there are any spare physical copies left we might be able to ship one of each out to you as we test out one of our shipping channel options.
What about fufilment to the U.S.? Do you have a U.S. based distribution channel or are U.S. Backers going to be clobbered with shipping and import fees?
We have a US and a UK distribution channel lined up so there will be no customs delays or import fees for anyone in the USA or Europe and UK. Australia and Canada will be explored if the volume is there, but it is much more likely that we'll need to ship to them from the US and UK as well.
legoburner wrote: A final decision on Print on Demand has not been made just yet, but it would not be this side of the kickstarter. Bug me after Salute (25th April) and if there are any spare physical copies left we might be able to ship one of each out to you as we test out one of our shipping channel options.
I wish you all the best of luck. I recently played a game of Bolt Action, and it was extremely satisfying to play a game where the rules were easy to understand and mechanically sound. A game set in a deep, sci-fi universe that involves a few squads, a giant robot or two, and a hero might be exactly what people are looking for today.
Wow. You guys have just managed to entice me towards something other than 40K. I've never had time, or inclination to look at other games because it is the models that I am interested in as I don't get chance to play games. Your Karists have definitely grabbed my attention and I will be awaiting the KS with hopefully some money to pledge.
Will follow with interest. Well done to everyone involved, a lot of work invested, I'm sure you can rely on the dakka community to support you. Wish you all every success.
I'll let a fiction guy chime in on the chaps, but they do operate largely on partially/barely terraformed worlds which means lots of desert, sand, etc which benefits from additional protection from the elements. One funny thing on the chaps was that the initial sculpt for them did not put any fabric texture on the buttocks, so when we 3D print tested them, they had perfectly smooth buttocks. Change request number 1 was to add some creases to the clothing there!
Hey guys,
So the deal with the chaps - The Epirians are a corporate entity and the bottom line drives everything they do. The squad you see in the picture are Contractors, which are mostly civilian troops in a manner similar to the UK Territorial Army or US Army Reserves. They have day jobs, like factory workers and terraformers, and when called to fight they just stick the Contractor uniform on over the top of their regular work clothes. That way, the Epirians don't have to worry about sizing out everyone's clothing
Never ever bring something important up on April 1st. So it was a wise decision to wait that few days longer.
Looking really cool so far. The tidbits about the 'verse sound interesting, and the models look fine. A solid first peek at this project, well done.
My personal wishlist:
Get the books done "for real". I know this might take some time and needs an interested publisher (plus a shedload of work...). But an actual book has still a lot of good reasons going in favour of it.
Provide some form of "suggested terrain". Either making some of your own, or partnering with a company that does. It's not a must, but makes the game more "complete" in my opinion. You also have a good bit more on offer for the KS (and terrain sells).
Bags? Dice? Merchandise (patches or the like)? Again, nothing necessary, but sweetening the deal.
Last, but absolutely not least: the not-Firefly crew. Your 'verse is just perfect for it. lots of people (including me) would love it, and you just have to do it!
Firstly, well done for bringing out this game. It looks very slick and professional, the models look good, and it's comparable to anything other companies are doing.
However, I am slightly concerned about something that hasn't been touched on, and perhaps Lego and/or Yakface can clear this up.
Obviously, this game is headed up by the people who also own dakka, so what is your position regarding criticism of the game on this forum?
When I say criticism, I don't mean mindless abuse, but proper constructive criticism. For example, I might review some infantry and say the plastics weren't that good because of X Y Z, or I might review the rules and say the mechanics were poor because of A B C etc etc
It's not something I would do myself, but somewhere down the line, somebody will review this game and they won't be that happy.
It's more than likely that feedback of all kinds would be welcomed, but I'd hate to see the neutrality of this site compromised if there were a bias towards this game, but I also recognise that this is your site and your game, and you can do what you want
I like the look of the Karist guys...the Eprian not so much...they seem too blocky. I can see a *lot* of BoB Karist fights until the other main factions show up.
However, I'm very interested in seeing how this game plays and what the uinverse is like. I've purchased the first book to learn more.
If the other factions look as good and the game plays well I will certainly try and throw some cash at the Kickstarter but IRL is tricky at the moment.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Firstly, well done for bringing out this game. It looks very slick and professional, the models look good, and it's comparable to anything other companies are doing.
However, I am slightly concerned about something that hasn't been touched on, and perhaps Lego and/or Yakface can clear this up.
Obviously, this game is headed up by the people who also own dakka, so what is your position regarding criticism of the game on this forum?
When I say criticism, I don't mean mindless abuse, but proper constructive criticism. For example, I might review some infantry and say the plastics weren't that good because of X Y Z, or I might review the rules and say the mechanics were poor because of A B C etc etc
It's not something I would do myself, but somewhere down the line, somebody will review this game and they won't be that happy.
It's more than likely that feedback of all kinds would be welcomed, but I'd hate to see the neutrality of this site compromised if there were a bias towards this game, but I also recognise that this is your site and your game, and you can do what you want
As long as the criticism abides by the basic tenets of Dakka (be polite, being the main one), then we welcome all criticism including that which is negative.
Can I guarantee with 100% certainty that in the future no one will feel like they were unfairly moderated because of what they said about MEdge? Absolutely not. There are always people already feel like they are unfairly moderated for a variety of reasons (the mods are 'friends' with this or that user, so on and so forth), and this will be no different.
But I can assure you of the goal: we are all big boys and have our big boy pants on. We all know that not everybody's reaction is going to be positive and when the time comes, we're ready to take that criticism on the chin as long as it is politely given. Personally, I've had a whale's share of negativity directed at me previously when I was producing the INATFAQ, so I'm quite confident we'll be able to handle things appropriately and professionally moving forwards with MEdge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zatsuku wrote: Are we looking at unit based special rules or universal special rules? Unit customization? If there is one thing I love in 40k, it's that.
When it comes to special rules, Its roughly equivalent to what you'd find in 40k...there are a host of universal special rules in the rulebook, but there are also a few special rules unique to a particular unit.
One thing I'm taking great care to do is when coming up with a unit specific special rule is to make sure it is worded 100% universally, so even though it applies only to a single unit type today, if tomorrow we want to apply it to other units, it is already good to go in a 'universal' state.
As for customization, there is and will be plenty of unit options available. Less than you'd be used to in something like 40k, but only because we don't have the same level of iterations to have built up all the myriad of different options and weapon types that they have over the decades.
It is important to me that there not be options that are supposed to be represented on the model that are not available in the model kit we sell. I don't like anyone feeling like they 'have' to convert models to play them. So to that end, every option that is required to be on the model is included in the kit. Any option not included in the kit is one that is not required to be modeled, such as any of the 'micro-drone' options an Epirian character is able to take (as these are supposed to be high-end, microscopically small drones that would not be visible).
Hello, I'm Maz, and I've been doing a fair chunk of the studio painting on this project over the past few months.
Those who are on the fence about the Epirian troops being a bit generic.
Yep, they are. They're basic humans in sci-fi ish armour with conventional (mostly) weaponry.
There's only so far you can take that.
<wine critic> Hints of Captain Scarlet and Thunderbirds, mixed with *sniff* WW2 US Pacific combat boots... </wine critic>
But they've got robotsies.
Lovely, lovely, robots. With guns and missiles and fisty things and stompy feet and and and...
They're on my painting desk now. Ro - o- o - BOTS!
In case my tone doesn't come across, I like 'em. Probably more than the Karists (which I loved doing). Probably more than I should. Hmmm.
Ok, gushing aside, these are actually really nicely put together kits, on par with Perry plastics and GW in terms of tooling and assembly.
Minimal mould lines and seams on assembly, and those in simple to clean places. This means nice, quick assembly for units. The robots (especially the small ones which you'll know when you see) are a bit trickier but show how a high part count 28mm ish sized model can really work when planned properly. Massively multipose.
As a builder, these are up there as kits. You can build quick, or build slow and do lots of conversions. Plenty of scope.
Detail is superb but not extraneous. The Karists don't really have or need much (they're very simple designs) but the Epirian armour at the back is potentially a real challenge, if you want it to be.
As a painter, its pretty much the same as the build - you can go slow and do some hardcore work, or blast out a squad and both will look pretty good.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Firstly, well done for bringing out this game. It looks very slick and professional, the models look good, and it's comparable to anything other companies are doing.
However, I am slightly concerned about something that hasn't been touched on, and perhaps Lego and/or Yakface can clear this up.
Obviously, this game is headed up by the people who also own dakka, so what is your position regarding criticism of the game on this forum?
When I say criticism, I don't mean mindless abuse, but proper constructive criticism. For example, I might review some infantry and say the plastics weren't that good because of X Y Z, or I might review the rules and say the mechanics were poor because of A B C etc etc
It's not something I would do myself, but somewhere down the line, somebody will review this game and they won't be that happy.
It's more than likely that feedback of all kinds would be welcomed, but I'd hate to see the neutrality of this site compromised if there were a bias towards this game, but I also recognise that this is your site and your game, and you can do what you want
As long as the criticism abides by the basic tenants of Dakka (be polite, being the main one), then we welcome all criticism including that which is negative.
Can I guarantee with 100% certainty that in the future no one will feel like they were unfairly moderated because of what they said about MEdge? Absolutely not. There are always people already feel like they are unfairly moderated for a variety of reasons (the mods are 'friends' with this or that user, so on and so forth), and this will be no different.
But I can assure you of the goal: we are all big boys and have our big boy pants on. We all know that not everybody's reaction is going to be positive and when the time comes, we're ready to take that criticism on the chin as long as it is politely given. Personally, I've had a whale's share of negativity directed at me previously when I was producing the INATFAQ, so I'm quite confident we'll be able to handle things appropriately and professionally moving forwards with MEdge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zatsuku wrote: Are we looking at unit based special rules or universal special rules? Unit customization? If there is one thing I love in 40k, it's that.
When it comes to special rules, Its roughly equivalent to what you'd find in 40k...there are a host of universal special rules in the rulebook, but there are also a few special rules unique to a particular unit.
One thing I'm taking great care to do is when coming up with a unit specific special rule is to make sure it is worded 100% universally, so even though it applies only to a single unit type today, if tomorrow we want to apply it to other units, it is already good to go in a 'universal' state.
As for customization, there is and will be plenty of unit options available. Less than you'd be used to in something like 40k, but only because we don't have the same level of iterations to have built up all the myriad of different options and weapon types that they have over the decades.
It is important to me that there not be options that are supposed to be represented on the model that are not available in the model kit we sell. I don't like anyone feeling like they 'have' to convert models to play them. So to that end, every option that is required to be on the model is included in the kit. Any option not included in the kit is one that is not required to be modeled, such as any of the 'micro-drone' options an Epirian character is able to take (as these are supposed to be high-end, microscopically small drones that would not be visible).
primalexile wrote: Are you guys planning on releasing heroes? I was always a huge fan of herohammer!
Any chance your working on campaign rules?
We will definitely have some character models right out of the gate to lead each faction. I also have definite plans for how named characters can/will fit into the rules, but at least initially, all the character models will be non-named characters (otherwise known as characters with names of your own personal devising), as opposed to something like Warmachine which has almost exclusively named characters.
How/when we start adding named characters into the game comes down to a lot of production details that just can't be finalized yet, but I know we're all anxious to get there eventually. The game will never, ever be 'hero hammer' (where a character model dominates the game), but certainly having some named characters available would be a lot of fun, and its definitely something we're looking forward to trying to make it happen.
As for campaign rules, there is a definite framework in place for how both narrative and campaign games will work. All our missions will be based on cards. For competitive missions, you just draw one card and both players essentially have the same mission (although each player always does have a distinct faction objective based on the faction they're playing).
For narrative and campaign missions, there is a separate card for the attacker and defender, allowing for asymmetrical mission objectives between the two players, and in some cases it looks like it will be possible for the next step of a campaign to involve the attacker drawing a random attacker mission card and the defender drawing a random defender mission card in order to randomly 'create' the next mission for the campaign.
Looks too much like Infinity or some other bland skirmis game, so wont be pleding anything. But none the less, well done to the developers whom has sunken time into this
Trondheim wrote: Looks too much like Infinity or some other bland skirmis game, so wont be pleding anything. But none the less, well done to the developers whom has sunken time into this
It doesn't really look like infinity, and infinity isn't a bland skirmish game, and it's like 2/3 times the size of infinity.
One thing I will say, I love the openess so far from the developers. I hope that continues, lack of communication is one of my pet peeves with other gaming companies.
I think the few vocal criticisms of the Epirian(sp) trooper looking blocky are due in part to the bare metal shoulders and armour and repainting them in camo should alleviate that.
As to the heads, there are a hundred hundred headswap options as they seem to be sizewise on par with Astra Militar... with Imperial Guard. I'm personally rather taken with them.
As with all things however, the price of this game and it's components will be key...
How will the rules be available? Only in the starter set? Expensive hardcover? Cheap travel-sized paperback?
How will rules for armies be released? To start, will everything be in the main rulebook? Will there be a "codex" for each army? If each army gets a "codex" is there an idea of how many years will be between revised versions? OR will new rules/units be released via combined books like with Malifaux or WarmaHordes?
If I have to spend $100ish on rules before I can play the game then I'm less interested in playing. I've spent a few hundred dollars on Malifaux, Infinity and Warmachine because I don't have to sink tons of money into rules (that will eventually be obsolete anyway).
Any plans for official tournaments or game days?
Will games be played over normal generic sci-fi terrain, or are there any specific kinds of terrain that will be needed? What % of the battlefield should be covered with terrain for a normal game?
Will starter sets have two different armies in them or be monofaction?
Will EVERYTHING be HIPS, or will there be metal/resin models as well?
Will there be a regular source of information for the game (blog/webzine/magazine)?
Will you have a community outreach team (Outriders/Press Gangers/Henchmen)?
Random pre-coffee thought that probably won't happen but amused me: I really want some miniatures in the KS that depict a man setting fire to plastic blocks and another that either looks like Sean Connery with a drink (Epirian CEO?) or a mildly crazed combat soldier with a yak mask of some sort (the first idea is more solid, though still made of jell-o overall).
Onto actual topics: I can appreciate the idea of the "night job" security forces, but I am anxious to see if there are professional soldiers in the their ranks and in the box. I'm sure that's a tidbit for later though.
How long of a campaign are you guys looking to run? That'd really help with planning out monies.
This sounds interesting, the artwork, stories and minis so far look like a great start, well done Lego, Yakface et al. Getting started on the first book now!
I'm also looking forward to more artwork, especially terrain wise.
Alabaster.clown wrote: I am already planning an Asteroid Mining/Rebel/Alien/Pirate squad that will kick some arse... and I have no idea if thats even possible yet!
Onto actual topics: I can appreciate the idea of the "night job" security forces, but I am anxious to see if there are professional soldiers in the their ranks and in the box. I'm sure that's a tidbit for later though.
There's a mix. There are full timers in their number, and they are all at least as well trained as any professional military. These guys work out on the frontier and double as private security, police and army. But as Winterdyne hinted, they have other resources to do their grunt work
Looking forward to KS and rules! Sound like a fun system with "Gates of Antares" as the possible competition at the scale.
I echo wath many others have said: Plastics are bloody great! I really likte the Karist models! I do not like the the Eprian. They look to squat and GW. Huge metal shoulderpads but no other armour? Not even helmets? The cyborg (?) modifications ad interest to the models but not enough to win me over. Actually, removing the pads and adding helmets would be enough to make me interested. On the other hand I could cut down the pads and change the helmets myself, since I have a feeling that they will be a part of my sweet-spot pledge anyway! :-)
Love the imagery and miniatures shown so far, can't wait to see further updates.
Trondheim wrote: Looks too much like Infinity or some other bland skirmis game, so wont be pleding anything. But none the less, well done to the developers whom has sunken time into this
Infinity is 8-12 miniatures, this is 20-30. As well as that, this is squad level movement and action, and sounds quite different in terms of both concept and execution.
This guy just looks way off in terms of proportions.
Legs certainly stand out the most.
The other faction look quite good though.
Yeah same here. The other factions look pretty damn good (especially the glowing effect from the weapons) but these guys like a bit meh, but only because of those shoulder pads, which could be rectified with a different paint scheme.
In my opinion, Cadian shock troops still represent the best look for humans in any sci-fi universe, out of all the games I've seen over the years. If I was playing this game, I'd buy the rules, but probably use Cadians for the humans.
I wonder what the price will be for these miniatures? I hope they don't do what GW did with the dire avengers.
Love the imagery and miniatures shown so far, can't wait to see further updates.
Trondheim wrote: Looks too much like Infinity or some other bland skirmis game, so wont be pleding anything. But none the less, well done to the developers whom has sunken time into this
Infinity is 8-12 miniatures, this is 20-30. As well as that, this is squad level movement and action, and sounds quite different in terms of both concept and execution.
Meh I suppose it all depends on how you look at it
There is a lot of interest in making a set of ModCubes compatible with MEdge! I actually showed legoburner a prototype at Last year's AdeptiCon
Nothing is finalized yet, but I'll be sending yakface a few production sample ModCubes to bring to Salute in two weeks and have ready to show if anyone wants to see it there, and we are hoping a collaboration can happen . More details to come if and when things get finalized!
First off, congratulations on getting as far as you have and good luck with your game. I'm definitely coming for a look at Salute. It looks like you've put a great amount of effort in to produce a cohesive background, game, models and novels.
But the Eperian contractor does not look good. He looks like a bad Quake 2 skin. I think you might have to work on him and his buddies before the kickstarter.
Didn't think of this till they brought up the modcube idea, but have you given any thought to working with 3rd party bits makers like Victoria Lamb, Mad Robot, Max Mini, or Kromlech?
A lot of their stuff is already compatible as is, but it would be cool to see 3rd party companies making bits for subfactions in a certain group.
I realize this probably won't happen because of legal shenanigans, but it would be awesome to see. I know Ill be mixing stuff in for my Karelians regardless because I just love kitbashing.
Edit:
Also, I kind of like the Kareluans. The pants make sense. I work outside a lot with chaps and stuff like that, and they tend to be very bulky and look a lot like that. Since these guys are essentially a schmuck like me with a gun, it makes sense that the military chaps over their pants would look baggy and bulky. The shoulders look a bit too bulky because of the armor, but I think part of it is the paint job. I actually prefer them to the religious guys, who I just don't really care for.
Here are responses to questions from page 5, thanks all!
bbb wrote:How will the rules be available? Only in the starter set? Expensive hardcover? Cheap travel-sized paperback?
Starter set will have an A5 book and we'll also have digital for sure. Hardcover is planned but timescale is not pinned down for that one as it is tied to logistical volumes.
bbb wrote: How will rules for armies be released? To start, will everything be in the main rulebook? Will there be a "codex" for each army? If each army gets a "codex" is there an idea of how many years will be between revised versions? OR will new rules/units be released via combined books like with Malifaux or WarmaHordes?
We'll cover that nearer the time, but when a new unit comes out the rules will be included and there will not be multi-year gaps between revised versions. We've designed a unique army building system which allows us to refresh or tweak the meta without need for expensive book purchases from gamers. It is better to think of releases as units rather than armies because the function and flexible range of each unit is quite dramatic, so a force built around one type of unit would play massively differently compared to a force built around a different type of unit. Much more so than 40k and other games.
bbb wrote: If I have to spend $100ish on rules before I can play the game then I'm less interested in playing. I've spent a few hundred dollars on Malifaux, Infinity and Warmachine because I don't have to sink tons of money into rules (that will eventually be obsolete anyway).
While we are charging for the rules, we do want them to be as widely read as possible so will be certainly pricing things very competitively on that front. I was put off flames of war because of the constant reissuing of expensive books - it really broke my interest in building FoW armies, and spending over a thousand bucks to keep up with the latest rules for 40k is also insane. Our rules will be accessible for sure.
bbb wrote: Any plans for official tournaments or game days?
It is a route we want to go down, but there are a lot of variables and things to deal with first, so there wont be anything on that front for quite a long time yet.
bbb wrote: Will games be played over normal generic sci-fi terrain, or are there any specific kinds of terrain that will be needed? What % of the battlefield should be covered with terrain for a normal game?
All normal terrain. Each faction has some objectives which are best represented with terrain or models, but we'll have cardboard versions of them in the box for those who dont want to make their own. A variety of terrain increases tactical options (and fun), but pretty much everything you'd expect from other games will work well. The more terrain the better as cover is a very big thing in avoiding suppression. A fairly open battlefield still works but you lose a huge amount of tactical flexibility so you'll want to get some terrain on there.
bbb wrote: Will starter sets have two different armies in them or be monofaction?
There will only be one starter set and it will contain both factions. Managing a single large box keeps costs down enough that we get more logistical and sales flexibility compared to having multiple starter boxes.
bbb wrote: Will EVERYTHING be HIPS, or will there be metal/resin models as well?
Only HIPS. There will be no resin and metal in the first year of release, and provided we hit the volumes we need, we'll avoid resin and metal forever. Our entire production, packing and distribution chain is geared around HIPS exclusively. We are very much of the opinion of go big or go home, so we didn’t want to do this project if we couldn’t go all out on plastic from the start. This also gives us a major advantage in that our production process is almost entirely automated, so we can expand to fill any volume without delays, so if we do meet with big numbers, it wont have much of a knock on impact like it would if we suddenly had to cast up and QC 10x more models than planned.
bbb wrote: Will there be a regular source of information for the game (blog/webzine/magazine)?
The maelstrom's edge website, facebook page, twitter feed and mailing list will all provide frequent updates. We do not have plans for a blog or zine at this time because the success of those depends on community driven content which we wont have until post-launch. Hiring a team to create content for them to the level of quality that we would demand would not deliver a good ROI at this stage.
bbb wrote: Will you have a community outreach team (Outriders/Press Gangers/Henchmen)?
Not initially, but we are still pre-kickstarter. That is something to be reviewed later in the year.
Krinsath wrote: How long of a campaign are you guys looking to run? That'd really help with planning out monies.
End of April to start of June so that we cover 2 pay days for most people. Going over 30 days is a bit of a no-no, but we are confident with Dakka's traffic numbers and proper pacing that we can get away with it.
partisan_nick wrote:I echo wath many others have said: Plastics are bloody great! I really likte the Karist models! I do not like the the Eprian. They look to squat and GW. Huge metal shoulderpads but no other armour? Not even helmets? The cyborg (?) modifications ad interest to the models but not enough to win me over. Actually, removing the pads and adding helmets would be enough to make me interested. On the other hand I could cut down the pads and change the helmets myself, since I have a feeling that they will be a part of my sweet-spot pledge anyway! :-)
The heads and arms are distinct parts, so are trivial to swap out with other scale compatible parts, the arms having a flat join too. It is funny hearing the proportional comments about the Epirians because they are actually a touch closer to real human scale than the Karists and I personally thought that people might be making those comments about the Karists rather than the Epirians. If the 3D sculpts for them are overlaid on a properly proportioned human model, they fit more than the Karists, but close up photography does change the perception of proportions a touch which is why we are very eager for people to see them in person as they do look great and are my personal favourite of the infantry models.
All of our models are designed to look good as a faction together, so while there are elements which might look a bit non-standard on the individual models, once you see how they relate to the shapes of the robots that will be fighting alongside the Epirians it will all click into place and the whole force looks highly unified and awesome.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I wonder what the price will be for these miniatures? I hope they don't do what GW did with the dire avengers.
The final price is dependent on the initial volumes we hit with Kickstarter. Full on plastic development is incredibly expensive and time consuming, but delivers very good economies of scale once certain volumes are hit. We'll certainly be pricing competitively. A direct apples-for-apples comparison with other manufacturers does not really work as there are almost none who are operating at the level of detail we are, with our latest models utilising multiple slide core tooling and milling detail which is much crisper than the vast majority of other ranges.
legoburner wrote: It is funny hearing the proportional comments about the Epirians because they are actually a touch closer to real human scale than the Karists and I personally thought that people might be making those comments about the Karists rather than the Epirians. If the 3D sculpts for them are overlaid on a properly proportioned human model, they fit more than the Karists, but close up photography does change the perception of proportions a touch which is why we are very eager for people to see them in person as they do look great and are my personal favourite of the infantry models.
Seeing them in person isn't a practical option for most people. If a screenshot of the 3D sculpts overlaid on a properly proportioned human model would show that the poor proportions are just an illusion caused by the photography, then posting that screenshot is a good idea.
legoburner wrote: It is funny hearing the proportional comments about the Epirians because they are actually a touch closer to real human scale than the Karists and I personally thought that people might be making those comments about the Karists rather than the Epirians. If the 3D sculpts for them are overlaid on a properly proportioned human model, they fit more than the Karists, but close up photography does change the perception of proportions a touch which is why we are very eager for people to see them in person as they do look great and are my personal favourite of the infantry models.
Seeing them in person isn't a practical option for most people. If a screenshot of the 3D sculpts overlaid on a properly proportioned human model would show that the poor proportions are just an illusion caused by the photography, then posting that screenshot is a good idea.
I don't think the combat harem pants help matters much.
Accolade wrote: I'm pretty sure Darnok was just being jokey, what with the winky face and all.
The smiley was due to my previous question being not yet answered. I'm serious about this.
I think a setting like the ME one could incorporate a group of characters based on "Firefly". In my opinion it would fit perfectly. And I don't see an IP issue at all: make the models/background "inspired by" the series, and not a 1-to-1 copy, and I can's see anybody complaining. You'd catch a lot of fans though.
Seeing them in person isn't a practical option for most people. If a screenshot of the 3D sculpts overlaid on a properly proportioned human model would show that the poor proportions are just an illusion caused by the photography, then posting that screenshot is a good idea.
3D renders are incredibly misleading as there are so many different options for distorting the view with regards to proportional scaling modes that it would be a complete misrepresentation to show them. Showing a 3D render which appropriately scales the model would heavily distort the human reference and defeat the point entirely.
We appreciate that a sizeable percentage of people will not get a chance to see this in person before the kickstarter, and because of that we are planning on posting plenty of good scale reference pictures of the models as well as pictures of the models on a range of tabletop environments which should make it a lot easier to get a good mental picture of the quality and proportions models as time goes on.
I'm just immensely excited about this project. As far as the ability to put faith in a Kickstarter goes, I think one run by Dakka itself is about as reliable as you can get, and I think that adds a lot to the potential of the game, given the reputation Dakka holds.
Lego, if you've already answered this feel free to ignore, but what inspired you, yakface et all to create your own game? With Kickstarters, there are a growing number of 28mm-scale games all vying for what 40k has- ubiquity and popularity amongst gamers. How do you all see this game fitting in that group?
Accolade wrote: I'm pretty sure Darnok was just being jokey, what with the winky face and all.
The smiley was due to my previous question being not yet answered. I'm serious about this.
I think a setting like the ME one could incorporate a group of characters based on "Firefly". In my opinion it would fit perfectly. And I don't see an IP issue at all: make the models/background "inspired by" the series, and not a 1-to-1 copy, and I can's see anybody complaining. You'd catch a lot of fans though.
Firefly was a big influence for us when designing the setting, as well as other iconic SF universes like the Battlestar Galactica remake, Star Wars, Blade Runner, Mass Effect and Cowboy Bebop. But our goal was always to create a new universe that took inspiration from such masterpieces without feeling derivative of any one in particular. There will definitely be room in our universe for the kind of characters and story that Firefly did so well, but we hope that we can create some characters of our own (such as Epirian Sheriff Kyle Wynn and Karist priestess Zafah Eridra in the novels) that you will love just as much, rather than borrowing someone else's creation!
I think a setting like the ME one could incorporate a group of characters based on "Firefly". In my opinion it would fit perfectly. And I don't see an IP issue at all: make the models/background "inspired by" the series, and not a 1-to-1 copy, and I can's see anybody complaining. You'd catch a lot of fans though.
And also drive some away.
A lot of people are extremely, violently opposed to pop-culture 'inspired' miniatures thrown into an unrelated setting. Subtle references are all well and good, but outright grabbing something from one setting and throwing it into another... not so much. As good a fit as it may seem on the surface, for those people it breaks the continuity, and while the actual legal issues behind it are quite grey, some see it as little better than counterfeiting unless it's done with a specific arrangement with the original IP holder.
I can certainly see Firefly as a fertile ground for conversions and custom armies... but I wouldn't expect to see anything in the official release.
Accolade wrote: I'm pretty sure Darnok was just being jokey, what with the winky face and all.
The smiley was due to my previous question being not yet answered. I'm serious about this.
I think a setting like the ME one could incorporate a group of characters based on "Firefly". In my opinion it would fit perfectly. And I don't see an IP issue at all: make the models/background "inspired by" the series, and not a 1-to-1 copy, and I can's see anybody complaining. You'd catch a lot of fans though.
Firefly was a big influence for us when designing the setting, as well as other iconic SF universes like the Battlestar Galactica remake, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Cowboy Bebop. But our goal was always to create a new universe that took inspiration from such masterpieces without feeling derivative of any one in particular. There will definitely be room in our universe for the kind of characters and story that Firefly did so well, but we hope that we can create some characters of our own (such as Epirian Sheriff Kyle Wynn and Karist priestess Zafah Eridra in the novels) that you will love just as much, rather than borrowing someone else's creation!
Understood. I see where you're coming from, it is just not what I wanted to hear...
I think a setting like the ME one could incorporate a group of characters based on "Firefly". In my opinion it would fit perfectly. And I don't see an IP issue at all: make the models/background "inspired by" the series, and not a 1-to-1 copy, and I can's see anybody complaining. You'd catch a lot of fans though.
And also drive some away.
A lot of people are extremely, violently opposed to pop-culture 'inspired' miniatures thrown into an unrelated setting. Subtle references are all well and good, but outright grabbing something from one setting and throwing it into another... not so much. As good a fit as it may seem on the surface, for those people it breaks the continuity, and while the actual legal issues behind it are quite grey, some see it as little better than counterfeiting unless it's done with a specific arrangement with the original IP holder.
I can certainly see Firefly as a fertile ground for conversions and custom armies... but I wouldn't expect to see anything in the official release.
Again: not my opinion, but I understand the reasoning. In the end I think it is safer to have a common ground for everybody, with the players doing "their thing" if they want to.
It's unlikely that I'll buy this myself, but I think it'll be a success for three reasons:
1) Unlike a certain, well known company, they're talking to people and taking feedback. In the long run, this customer input and engagement will build up a loyal following.
2) It looks professional and some of those miniatures look first class. I've seen a lot of half-ass efforts over the years, but this definitely falls into the looks good category.
3) The rules. I have no idea how good Yakface is at writing a ruleset, but if he's as good as they say he is, then that could tip the balance. In earlier posts, people were comparing this to Gates of Antares, but if this is a better ruleset, then that may be enough to win the day.
Nicely done guys. I will certainly be coming to see you at Salute to have a closer look at the figures. The universe so far sounds pretty cool. Are you planning on making it a living, breathing universe that changes over time?
This also explains Lego's trip to the plastics factory a couple of years back too
endtransmission wrote: Nicely done guys. I will certainly be coming to see you at Salute to have a closer look at the figures. The universe so far sounds pretty cool. Are you planning on making it a living, breathing universe that changes over time?
That's certainly the aim. The novels tie directly into the planet of Zycanthus, which is where the first box set is also based. The nature of the Maelstrom means that the universe will naturally change as worlds are destroyed and cybel tunnel routes between systems are cut off. We hope if the game is a success that we can continue to expand the fiction and game in parallel to explore more of the Spiral Arm and evolve the setting, although we are also keen not to let anyone's models and armies become obsolete by any such changes - we want to keep everyone's army current within the meta as much as possible.
Accolade wrote: I'm pretty sure Darnok was just being jokey, what with the winky face and all.
The smiley was due to my previous question being not yet answered. I'm serious about this.
I think a setting like the ME one could incorporate a group of characters based on "Firefly". In my opinion it would fit perfectly. And I don't see an IP issue at all: make the models/background "inspired by" the series, and not a 1-to-1 copy, and I can's see anybody complaining. You'd catch a lot of fans though.
That's a *really* specific want/need!
Let this universe grow with its own cast and characters
Accolade wrote: Lego, if you've already answered this feel free to ignore, but what inspired you, yakface et all to create your own game? With Kickstarters, there are a growing number of 28mm-scale games all vying for what 40k has- ubiquity and popularity amongst gamers. How do you all see this game fitting in that group?
First off, when we started this project, there was no Kickstarter (let that sink in a moment!). Second, it seems like so many of us just don't have the time or inclination to paint up 80-150 models anymore and certainly while an 'army' scale 28mm game is amazing to see and play, there is also plenty of room for the type of game that 40k really cut its teeth on being (20-30 models per side) and Warmachine nicely caters to in the Fantasy/Steampunk realm. But for whatever reason, there have been painfully few sci-fi games of any note trying to tackle that specific need (and pretty much none before Kickstarter, which is when we embarked on this).
If you want to hear more beyond that, I'll be on the upcoming D6 Generation podcast episode talking about the game. The Lost Chapter (which they do charge money for) in particular is exactly the discussion of how the project all got started and such.
This looks very exciting, a 20 - 30 miniature game sounds great for ease of entry (especially if buying two armies), but maintaining some level of tactical combat.
Can you shed any more light on the rule set objectives? Is this aimed to provide platoon level combat with a modern spin (suppression, fire superiority, maneuver) or is it more stylized?
Will the units interact directly with terrain, placement matters, or is the terrain interaction abstracted. (With the small scale and facing models, I hope that interaction with terrain is not abstracted...)
Wow. I'm really looking forward to this Kickstarter. The commitment to all HIPS is particularly impressive.
I also really like the design of the Epirian Contractor Engineer. The chaps look right. They give the model a practical vibe. I especially like the cargo pockets. The only thing I'm torn on aesthetically is the hat instead of a helmet. On one hand a helmet is more appropriate to a combat environment. On the other hand the hat makes the model look more like the lower level of a security force instead of a dedicated soldier. It's a 50/50 split for me on that one.
I understand the decision not to make the entire rules set available online. I personally prefer free rules. However you guys did the research and based your decision upon the research and I completely and totally respect/admire that.
With there at least be enough info in the basic rules intro you put out to test play a few games (with some variety) and get a feel for the core of the game?
Here's a little overview of what you can expect from the rules (in spoiler tags below). This will be going up on the MEdge website soon, in the 'rules' section:
MAELSTROM'S EDGE RULES OVERVIEW
Spoiler:
Maelstrom's Edge is an in-depth, next-generation, squad-based skirmish tabletop game, focused on roughly 20-30 models per side. It is both fresh and exciting whilst familiar and logical, featuring alternating unit activation and fistfuls of six-sided dice. Its tactics center on the concepts of cover, maneuver, facing and suppression, plus a number of exciting ancillary elements, such as reinforcements, turn-based scoring and sudden-death victory conditions.
SQUAD-BASED SKIRMISH Maelstrom’s Edge is firmly squad-based gameplay, which means you activate, move and shoot whole units, not the individual models within them. However, these are smaller fire-team sized units, typically containing between 1-5 models, comprising an overall force of roughly 20-30 models per side. Units have a wide variety of tactical options to choose from when activated, akin to the options a single model in a pure skirmish game has.
ALTERNATING ACTIVATION Each turn, players alternate activating either one or two of their units in a row. This allows you to press the immediate advantage by activating two units in a row, or instead, wait to see what your opponent will do by activating only a single unit. There are however, a couple of twists: the player with the first opportunity to activate a unit, known as the priority player, may only activate a single unit for this initial activation. Conversely, the non-priority player always has the option to hold their very last unit as the final activation of the turn.
DICE Though the unit sizes are small, the amount of dice they generate when firing is anything but. If you enjoy rolling handfuls of six-sided dice, then this game is for you. Nearly all the rolls in Maelstrom’s Edge are what is known as a versus (VS.) roll. The formula for determining whether a versus roll is a success or failure is always the same across the entire game, meaning you’ll never need to check the rulebook again once you’ve learned it.
SUPPRESSION Suppression plays a major role in Maelstrom’s Edge, and features cinematic suppression tokens (STs) on the tabletop to represent it. The more suppression a unit has, the less likely it is able to choose the action it will perform when it activates. Units taking cover are incredibly difficult to destroy, but tend to wrack up tons of suppression, making them vulnerable to deadly short-ranged firefights and close-quarters attacks.
COVER & FACING Cover is a squad’s lifeblood, with only the fool or master-strategist willing to leave their unit in the open for long. A squad’s line of sight and facing is determined by their squad leader model and Maelstrom’s Edge features bases with easily distinguishable front/rear arc markings to help establish this. Shooting at an enemy unit’s rear arc greatly reduces the protection they receive from being in cover.
DEFENSIVE FIRE Anytime a unit is fired upon by an enemy within short range, they first get to fire a round of defensive fire. However, the amount of suppression the unit has on it determines whether this defensive fire is incredibly deadly or just a minor nuisance. Therefore, properly suppressing an enemy unit before attempting to engage it at close-range is the key to success.
COMMAND POINTS Players generate a number of command points each turn based on the current turn plus the amount of command models they have on the table. Command points are a currency of sorts that can be used in a number of different ways: to bring back destroyed units as reinforcements, to prevent the enemy from bringing back their reinforcements and to reduce suppression on units near your command models.
REINFORCEMENTS Each turn, you can attempt to bring back one unit destroyed previously in the game, however you must win a secret command point bidding war against your opponent to do so. But remember, winning this bidding war means you’ll have less command points to prevent the enemy from bringing back their reinforcements and less ability to reduce suppression on your units as well.
TURN-BASED MISSION SCORING Each Maelstrom’s Edge mission is comprised of 3 different objectives, one of which is always based upon the faction you’re playing. Standard games are 5 turns long, but victory points for the mission are tabulated at the end of each and every turn. If you can manage to reach the specified total to complete the mission while outpacing your opponent by a wide enough margin, then the game immediately ends with you as the victor! This makes accomplishing mission objectives from the first turn to the very last of paramount importance.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:@Yakface
you probably want to re-pin the D6G back on the top of the discussion board before then... it seems to have fallen off
I talked with Russ about the discussion thread here on Dakka, and since they started their Patreon page, the amount of comments in any of the Dakka threads has been one at most, and usually zero. So we mutually decided it wasn't really serving a purpose any longer (sadly).
DrRansom wrote:This looks very exciting, a 20 - 30 miniature game sounds great for ease of entry (especially if buying two armies), but maintaining some level of tactical combat.
Can you shed any more light on the rule set objectives? Is this aimed to provide platoon level combat with a modern spin (suppression, fire superiority, maneuver) or is it more stylized?
Will the units interact directly with terrain, placement matters, or is the terrain interaction abstracted. (With the small scale and facing models, I hope that interaction with terrain is not abstracted...)
Hopefully the rules overview I posted above answers some of your questions about the rules.
When it comes to terrain, and in general there are quite a few abstractions in place, but let me explain the reasoning:
Most games I've played, when you finish moving your model/unit, you really aren't sure if they are stopped at that point, kneeling down and firing or if they are theoretically running forward, firing from the hip.
With MEdge, the position your unit is after you finish moving it absolutely represents where they have stopped to set up and shoot from, taking cover at the same time if it is available. You can declare that a unit is 'on the move' (representing them keeping their heads down and moving for a long period of time), but that is a crystal clear game state.
What all that means is that the position you choose to move your unit to represents their chosen firing position and because of that there is a massive, massive difference between if the unit decides to set up shop taking cover or doesn't. Yeah, random intervening terrain and/or models in the way will still make it harder to hit them, but they absolutely will not get any kind of the same protection as if they're actually in cover.
So the main abstractions involving terrain/cover would be:
• Cover is determined on the unit level, so the unit only gets cover if 1/2 of its models are in cover.
• There is area terrain as you're likely familiar with in most games, and that has the basic abstraction of theoretically being more dense than what you see on the table. As a result of that, models within area terrain count as being in cover (a concept used in most games) and you can't draw line of sight completely through area terrain to models on the other side of it.
Dorrand wrote:I understand the decision not to make the entire rules set available online. I personally prefer free rules. However you guys did the research and based your decision upon the research and I completely and totally respect/admire that.
With there at least be enough info in the basic rules intro you put out to test play a few games (with some variety) and get a feel for the core of the game?
Yeah, we're only charging for the rules because we're going to put a lot of time and money into designing the product of the book (and download of the book). There is no goal to try to keep the rules secret, and in fact I will be creating a whole series of videos that will allow you to more or less learn the basics of the game without even needing the rules.
Dorrand wrote: Wow. I'm really looking forward to this Kickstarter. The commitment to all HIPS is particularly impressive.
I also really like the design of the Epirian Contractor Engineer. The chaps look right. They give the model a practical vibe. I especially like the cargo pockets. The only thing I'm torn on aesthetically is the hat instead of a helmet. On one hand a helmet is more appropriate to a combat environment. On the other hand the hat makes the model look more like the lower level of a security force instead of a dedicated soldier. It's a 50/50 split for me on that one.
I understand the decision not to make the entire rules set available online. I personally prefer free rules. However you guys did the research and based your decision upon the research and I completely and totally respect/admire that.
With there at least be enough info in the basic rules intro you put out to test play a few games (with some variety) and get a feel for the core of the game?
I like the contractor too, the chaps he wears are very similar to the chainsaw chaps I wear for work so they make sense to me.
I really want to make a group of forrester/lumberjack/wildland firefighter guys using those models with chainsaw chaps, helmets, and possibly some wielding saws if they have an option for melee weapons. No idea where I would get 28mm chainsaws though. The oranges, greens, and yellows would make for a cool looking army, that's for sure. Plus itd give me a use for all those bearded heads I have from Victoria lamb
Makes sense because odds are guys like that would have to be able to fend for themselves if they were attacked.
Here's hoping they have an option for shotguns too
Great news on the duration of the KS! That really helps get things lined up properly on this end.
Skimming the rules, I notice the 5 round limit, and how games can be much shorter if one side is really hitting it. In playtesting, what was the average amount of time per game you guys have noticed? Was there a target you were aiming for?
Thanks for the response, that looks very interesting. I take it that the distinction between "On the Move" and "Aiming for a Shot" will be connected to the distance that a unit moves?
Will the rules embrace a wide range of weapon and equipment types, with very distinct roles and behavior? E.g.: smoke grenades to shield LoS, airburst rifles, MGs which fire to suppress a unit?
I have another question and a suggestion:
Suggestion - If I were in your position, I'd keep Maelstorm forms on the Dakka website, this is under the theory that concentrating a community is significantly better than splitting it.
Question, and this is the big one, there have been more than a few kick-starters in the past few years for skirmish miniature games. How do you plan to stand out in a competitive marketplace? How will this game be the next thing, where a half dozen have failed?
Question, and this is the big one, there have been more than a few kick-starters in the past few years for skirmish miniature games. How do you plan to stand out in a competitive marketplace? How will this game be the next thing, where a half dozen have failed?
I'd say a full range of HIPS does that on it's own. Most games are metal or resin.
DrRansom wrote: Question, and this is the big one, there have been more than a few kick-starters in the past few years for skirmish miniature games. How do you plan to stand out in a competitive marketplace? How will this game be the next thing, where a half dozen have failed?
Having seen a bit of what's still behind the curtain for the Kickstarter, for me the big differences are the miniatures (everything in HIPS is brilliant... most of those trying for odd plastic hybrids just haven't quite managed to meet the mark in quality, and at the end of the day even superb sculpts are brought down somewhat by being cast in a material that is hard to work with. Everything in HIPS makes happy happen in my head) and the fact that so much is already completed. This isn't a 'Here's an idea and a few renders for a game that we might manage to release in a year or so, but will probably run over schedule and hey! we might just randomly change the miniatures along the way, or run out of money and have to dribble out rewards to backers over the next decade! Sucks to be you!'-style project. Everything has been meticulously planned out, and a lot of effort put into having finished product to show so people will know exactly what they are going to get.
That, and the setting kicks butt and is already incredibly well fleshed out, and the game plays out really well, and quite differently to other games I've played. It's a big change from games like 40K, where you can so often ignore the mission in favour of just trying to wipe out your opponent. You're not going to see anywhere near as many games of Maelstrom's Edge finish with only one side remaining on the board...
Krinsath wrote:Great news on the duration of the KS! That really helps get things lined up properly on this end.
Skimming the rules, I notice the 5 round limit, and how games can be much shorter if one side is really hitting it. In playtesting, what was the average amount of time per game you guys have noticed? Was there a target you were aiming for?
So far, most games have lasted between 2-3 hours. The target is probably right around 90 minutes to 2 hours. However, I do put a lot of the excess time on the fact that people are essentially still learning the rules each time (because the rules have naturally been in flux during development, meaning the playtesters have still had to keep re-checking the rules each time they play to figure out what things have changed). So I fully expect that once you have two players that know the rules of the game pretty well that we'll be right on that mark.
DrRansom wrote:Thanks for the response, that looks very interesting. I take it that the distinction between "On the Move" and "Aiming for a Shot" will be connected to the distance that a unit moves?
Will the rules embrace a wide range of weapon and equipment types, with very distinct roles and behavior? E.g.: smoke grenades to shield LoS, airburst rifles, MGs which fire to suppress a unit?
I have another question and a suggestion:
Suggestion - If I were in your position, I'd keep Maelstorm forms on the Dakka website, this is under the theory that concentrating a community is significantly better than splitting it.
Question, and this is the big one, there have been more than a few kick-starters in the past few years for skirmish miniature games. How do you plan to stand out in a competitive marketplace? How will this game be the next thing, where a half dozen have failed?
Being 'on the move' makes it much harder to be hit by enemy fire, but at the cost of all the unit's firing being 'wild' (needing 6's to hit), including any defensive fire they make. Therefore, being 'on the move' close to the enemy is actually very dangerous, as you are essentially dramatically weakening your unit's defensive fire if you do.
Yes, there are a wide array of weapon types each with their own special rules. Some generate additional suppression (above whatever damage it causes normally), some ignore cover, etc, etc, etc.
The MEdge forums will be here on Dakka. Exactly where and how they will be placed is still something we're deciding on, but having them here was always the plan.
As for how we hope to succeed?
1) This is squad-based skirmish, not actually a skirmish game. That puts it in a niche that really hasn't been much attacked. We see people all the time on Dakka and other sites asking for a sci-fi game that is 20-30 models. I believe the demand is there for a good quality version of that game.
2) Multi-part, multi-pose HIPs models. This is what most miniature gamers want in their models. No other company (that I'm aware of) out of the gate has done this because it is incredibly difficult and costly.
3) The amount of time, effort and money put into developing the background and art of this setting is immense, and I hope the quality of it shows. The more people see of it, the more I think they'll like it and want to see what comes next.
4) We have an established community of gamers here on Dakka that we can utilize for feedback, advice, etc, which is invaluable.
And really, there's many more minor reasons, but those 4 points alone are hopefully good enough to propel us to success where others haven't quite made it.
I have to say, seeing this absolutely turned my day around. Dakka has been my gaming home for many years, and I love seeing the guys responsibile for it take on an endeavor like this. From a crunch perspective, it's initially shaping up to check all the boxes for what I like in a game. The fluff and models shown haven't really grabbed me yet, but i'm always slow to warm up to fluff. Will have a read of the novels and see how that puts things in perspective.
What are we looking at for base sizes? From the scale and pictures, assuming 25mm for standard infantry.
Btw I'm truely honored that you decided to name it after me.
I think the Karists aren't as heavily criticized on proportions in part because they're wearing more power armor, which understandably changes and distorts the human figure. The Epireans are wearing clothing closer to contemporary military styles, so maybe the realism threshold is higher for them because of it?
Also, the Karists are rocking some very cool-looking helmets. That never hurts.
Thematically the Karists are also a lot more compelling to me, mostly because I'm a sucker for sci-fi fanatical zealots / religious cults. Corporate-style factions like the Epireans are kind of a human baseline faction for a lot of sci-fi. I don't say they shouldn't exist - they're probably necessary just to anchor the fictional universe with a relataible / understandable human group. But that same necessity / ubiquity can make Corporate humanity seem a bit vanilla.
I plan to check this KS out, and I wish it incredible success, mostly because the stuff that excites me most - alien factions, the weirder things - are likely to follow later once the first release has found its market. Go for it, guys. We need more strong players out there competing in this market and raising the bar for everyone.
Vermonter wrote: I think the Karists aren't as heavily criticized on proportions in part because they're wearing more power armor, which understandably changes and distorts the human figure. The Epireans are wearing clothing closer to contemporary military styles, so maybe the realism threshold is higher for them because of it?
The thing about sticking to a 28mm scale is you either have a fundamental choice: keep things in more of a true proportion and end up with absolute tiny limbs and hands on the model that looks great in blown-up pictures, but is kind of pain to paint unless you're a master-class kind of painter, and looks super-tiny when its on the table and you're viewing it from a distance (which is the way you see your models most of the time, honestly). Plus, models sculpted with these proportions tend to look much smaller overall when you put them next to models from other popular 28mm ranges.
Alternatively, if you cheat and go for the more of what is known as 'heroic' scale, the models have a propensity to look a little odd to some people when you see them blown-up in pictures, but conversely are much easier to paint and IMHO, look much better when on the table at a distance (which again, is how you see your models most of the time).
There's a reason so many new games coming out have 'slipped' up to a 32-35mm scale...its because it is much, much easier to have models that look properly in proportion but also don't have teeny, tiny limbs. We've stuck to our guns and gone with a 28-32mm that is totally comparable with most of the models you all already own.
What I can say about the Epriain contractor models from my experience is two things:
1) Once you see the rest of the range we have for the Epirians, and see the contractors side by side with them, I believe the concerns you might have about them being too boxy or angular will quickly dissipate.
2) Once you see these models on the table like you will most of the time, any fears that might exist about the proportions of the models will be greatly diminished.
I am getting a Chronicles of Riddick underverse vibe from this and of course Lovecraftian universe .
I would sing all praise and such, but i there is not enough to make a decision yet.
Only 2 squads and some artwork.
I would like to see more concepts of miniatures and faction, vehicles, mecha and such.
Will the official release be like infinity starter sets or like a GW starter box?
Downloadable quickstart rules would be nice to get a feel of the game.
Will this be a semi-static universe like 40k or like warmachine where the timeline progresses and introduces new factions and new versions of characters?
Just finished the first book and I have to say that it was written really well. Love the universe and setting so far, and I also like that both sides are good/bad so far. I will start up with the second book tonight, but so far I can see how having (only) two factions can still have a variety of options on the field. Especially if both sides are able to field forces with the variety of themes present in all the different sub-factions so far.
Definitely watching this with interest. Sculpts look good so far, am glad to see the human face actually looks like a human face and not a sculpted potato.
Maelstrom808 wrote:
What are we looking at for base sizes? From the scale and pictures, assuming 25mm for standard infantry.
Btw I'm truely honored that you decided to name it after me.
Yup a 24-25mm base size with front/rear arc notches. And you're welcome!
Stormonu wrote:
Will this be available US retail after the KS?
Only once all backers have had their product delivered. It will go to global retail as soon as we can after that point though.
Stormonu wrote:
Can I put in a request for a cyborg faction (part man, part machine pirates, thinking their tech will allow them to survive the Maelstrom's edge)?
Adding a new faction is at least a good two and a half years of work, so we are very slow and very conservative on that front!
Jehan-reznor wrote:I would sing all praise and such, but i there is not enough to make a decision yet.
Only 2 squads and some artwork.
I would like to see more concepts of miniatures and faction, vehicles, mecha and such.
Indeed, keep watching as you are going to see some pretty nice things over the coming weeks and months
Jehan-reznor wrote:
Will the official release be like infinity starter sets or like a GW starter box?
It will be more in line with a GW style starter box as that is what we've grown up on and consider the standard.
Jehan-reznor wrote:
Downloadable quickstart rules would be nice to get a feel of the game.
Will this be a semi-static universe like 40k
There are more detailed responses on these points earlier in the thread, but basically yes there will be a simple rules overview for download (as well as tutorial videos), and the full rules will be available for download for a reasonable price. The universe will be evolving and progressing but we'll never obsolete any models so that factions you build now are playable forever.
d-usa wrote:Just finished the first book and I have to say that it was written really well. Love the universe and setting so far, and I also like that both sides are good/bad so far. I will start up with the second book tonight, but so far I can see how having (only) two factions can still have a variety of options on the field. Especially if both sides are able to field forces with the variety of themes present in all the different sub-factions so far.
Thanks and glad you enjoyed it. The novels have been a labour of love and have been reviewed, edited and revised constantly to get to the solid state that they are in now. As a plug for others reading this far, the novels can be bought on amazon right now
MrFlutterPie wrote:What can you tell me (fluff wise) about the The Remnant Fleet?
Sounds very Star League exodusish and that has me intrigued.
Not much right now, they have reams of background written but we are sitting on it until much later in the year. Like us on facebook or subscribe at maelstromsedge.com and you'll be the first to know about them though!
I've been reading the fist novel this morning and, so far...
That, combined with the Karist troops have me sealed into at least a starter set. Are there plans for a Proselytiser model to go with the troops, or is that something you see being away from the normal battlefields covered by the tabletop games?
A fun retro feel to the miniatures and I like some of the design touches, but not hitting the right buttons for me. That said, it's a cool background concept and a great pedigree on the rules, so I'll keep an eye out for new factions that might catch my eye.
I've always wanted a game that really made the world on which the armies are fighting into a core part of the rules and concept, so I'm interested to know what the plans are for the playing area, in terms of dimensions, coverage and how the rules account for scenery/terrain.
Any plans for HIPs terrain? The 'third army' always helps to change a fun game into a memorable experience, and really helps set the overall aesthetic and stop things becoming generic.
I have a few ideas in my head for a book series and before I tackle that I wanted to start on something new to practice and learn along the way.
I have never tried fan fiction but this new setting sounds great. A fresh new universe to explore.
Do you guys have any objection on any of us writing fan fiction and maybe posting it here or somewhere else? I have no idea how people normally do this so if anyone has ideas please let me know.
Can't wait for the Kickstarter, but first need to get the two novels.
d-usa wrote:Just finished the first book and I have to say that it was written really well. Love the universe and setting so far, and I also like that both sides are good/bad so far. I will start up with the second book tonight, but so far I can see how having (only) two factions can still have a variety of options on the field. Especially if both sides are able to field forces with the variety of themes present in all the different sub-factions so far.
endtransmission wrote:I've been reading the first novel this morning and, so far...
That, combined with the Karist troops have me sealed into at least a starter set. Are there plans for a Proselytiser model to go with the troops, or is that something you see being away from the normal battlefields covered by the tabletop games?
Thanks very much for the positive comments on the novels - it's something myself and Stephen (Gaskell, our other lead writer) in particular have worked really hard on to give people a feel for the flavour of the universe and setting we're aiming for, as well as some insight into the motives and abilities of the first two factions. The portrayal of neither of the two sides as 'good' or 'evil' was important to us - so it's good that that is coming through in the books! There's a couple of battles in the second book that I'm particularly proud of...
We certainly want there to be models for Proselytisers in the future, as well as for the special characters from the fiction. But designing and making HIPS moulds is very time and resource intensive, so monopose characters isn't the best choice for the first wave. We wanted to concentrate on multipart, multipose models with lots of different options, to give people more options to kitbash and convert. As one of the guys that invents these characters I definitely want to see them on the tabletop in the future. In this first wave I think the variety of parts and flexibility of the material will allow people a lot of scope for conversions, so I hope some of the amazing modellers and painters on this forum will create some really unique things with it!
Apologist wrote:A fun retro feel to the miniatures and I like some of the design touches, but not hitting the right buttons for me. That said, it's a cool background concept and a great pedigree on the rules, so I'll keep an eye out for new factions that might catch my eye.
I've always wanted a game that really made the world on which the armies are fighting into a core part of the rules and concept, so I'm interested to know what the plans are for the playing area, in terms of dimensions, coverage and how the rules account for scenery/terrain.
Any plans for HIPs terrain? The 'third army' always helps to change a fun game into a memorable experience, and really helps set the overall aesthetic and stop things becoming generic.
A third faction won't be in this release, again due to the time and cost constraints of making HIPS models - we wanted to do the first two factions right, rather than rush a third. However, we do have three more factions that we are very excited about, so if the first launch goes well, we'll be able to kick on with developing the next set of factions and models with the same level of quality.
I'm very much looking forward to the kickstarter and more importantly... the actual production of the game. Been pretty much a strict 40k player for a long time, but I'll make room in my gaming life for this one.
We certainly want there to be models for Proselytisers in the future, as well as for the special characters from the fiction. But designing and making HIPS moulds is very time and resource intensive, so monopose characters isn't the best choice for the first wave. We wanted to concentrate on multipart, multipose models with lots of different options, to give people more options to kitbash and convert. As one of the guys that invents these characters I definitely want to see them on the tabletop in the future. In this first wave I think the variety of parts and flexibility of the material will allow people a lot of scope for conversions, so I hope some of the amazing modellers and painters on this forum will create some really unique things with it!
We shall have to see what we can do to accommodate you then I guess temporarily we will have to just use an existing model stats/role as the Proselytisers, which is fine. I'd imagine they would essentially be a Trooper squad leader once the firefight starts anyway?
I'm looking forward to seeing how you do characters in HIPS due to the investment needed and the limited usage.
We certainly want there to be models for Proselytisers in the future, as well as for the special characters from the fiction. But designing and making HIPS moulds is very time and resource intensive, so monopose characters isn't the best choice for the first wave. We wanted to concentrate on multipart, multipose models with lots of different options, to give people more options to kitbash and convert. As one of the guys that invents these characters I definitely want to see them on the tabletop in the future. In this first wave I think the variety of parts and flexibility of the material will allow people a lot of scope for conversions, so I hope some of the amazing modellers and painters on this forum will create some really unique things with it!
We shall have to see what we can do to accommodate you then I guess temporarily we will have to just use an existing model stats/role as the Proselytisers, which is fine. I'd imagine they would essentially be a Trooper squad leader once the firefight starts anyway?
I'm looking forward to seeing how you do characters in HIPS due to the investment needed and the limited usage.
I've always though the most practical way to include characters in a HIPS/sprue environment would be to include the couple odd pieces needed to upgrade a standard model.
I don't think GW ever really marketed this, but the Ravenwing Upgrade sprue had the bits necessary to upgrade a standard Terminator model to be Belial AND the bits necessary to upgrade a standard Land Speeder to be the Master of the Ravenwing Land Speeder.
Maybe something similar would work? Include a special helmet and set of arms/special weapons and all of a sudden you can build either a standard Squad Leader or the corresponding named HQ choice. This also gives people more opportunity for conversions and posing.
I like the Epireans, I have a ton of scifi troopers with guns from various companies that I want to use for a game that suits me better than 40K. I don't have any issue with the proportions and the shoulderpads I can live with since for some reason game designers everywhere are convinced that in the future all soldiers will need shoulderpads even though they've been rendered impractical centuries ago.
My only criticize for the Epirean model shown is that he needs more gear. Even if he isn't going to have a pack he still needs webbing for ammo pouches, medkit, canteen etc. Nobody goes into a battle with just a rifle and one magazine. Hopefully there are more bits available on the sprues for the Epireans, if not I'll just have to dig some out of my bits box.
Apologist wrote:Any plans for HIPs terrain? The 'third army' always helps to change a fun game into a memorable experience, and really helps set the overall aesthetic and stop things becoming generic.
A third faction won't be in this release, again due to the time and cost constraints of making HIPS models - we wanted to do the first two factions right, rather than rush a third. However, we do have three more factions that we are very excited about, so if the first launch goes well, we'll be able to kick on with developing the next set of factions and models with the same level of quality.
Ah, sorry; I wasn't quite clear there – by 'third army', I meant the scenery. I think the release plan (two initial opposing armies) is a sensible one.
Off-topic, I see you're up in Oxford. Do you happen to head down the Abingdon Wargamers club at all? A mate of mine who lives in the area says it's a nice group.
I've always though the most practical way to include characters in a HIPS/sprue environment would be to include the couple odd pieces needed to upgrade a standard model.
Agreed. The GW upgrade sprues were a great idea that they should have stuck to. The problem comes when you have characters that fall outside of the base unit designs as you need to add more and more elements onto the upgrade sprue. For example the Proselytisers have robes, so would effectively need a completely new sculpt to themselves
I think I just figured out what I'm most excited about. It isn't the rules, which look great. It isn't the models, which so far look just grand, it's the access to the fluff and the people who imagined it/wrote it all! That's the best thing that a company can do, it's what I like most about PP and I think its what I am going to like most about this.
"Why is this like this?" "Well motyak, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
I am actually more looking forwards to delving even deeper into the fluff than I was previously, weeeee
Ah, sorry; I wasn't quite clear there – by 'third army', I meant the scenery. I think the release plan (two initial opposing armies) is a sensible one.
Off-topic, I see you're up in Oxford. Do you happen to head down the Abingdon Wargamers club at all? A mate of mine who lives in the area says it's a nice group.
Terrain is definitely important and something we've thought about, but I'll say no more than that at present!
I haven't joined a wargame club since I moved to Oxford because I've been busy working on the game but I used to be a semi-regular at Bristol Vanguard when I lived there. I'll definitely check out Abingdon when I get the chance.
Nithoggr wrote: Long time lurker and I had to post about this.
Do you guys have any objection on any of us writing fan fiction and maybe posting it here or somewhere else? I have no idea how people normally do this so if anyone has ideas please let me know.
No issues with people writing their own stories set in the universe of Maelstrom's Edge, but you may want to hold on until you get a sense of how much background we've already written (hint, a LOT), it'll give you loads of good ideas!
In the first two pages, Yak said that they don't plan on anything to change on dakka except running some banner ads during the KS and setting up a game specific subforum. Other than that, it'll still be the same neutral ground we all love to grip about our favorite game on.
Nithoggr wrote: Long time lurker and I had to post about this.
Do you guys have any objection on any of us writing fan fiction and maybe posting it here or somewhere else? I have no idea how people normally do this so if anyone has ideas please let me know.
No issues with people writing their own stories set in the universe of Maelstrom's Edge, but you may want to hold on until you get a sense of how much background we've already written (hint, a LOT), it'll give you loads of good ideas!
We do intend to have a regular short story collection/magazine and I am very keen that people will be able to submit their own stories for consideration in that. So please feel free to write stories in our universe, as long as you clearly state that it's a Maelstrom's Edge story if you post it online. I won't necessarily pick every story to be published but I will be looking for the best fan contributions. I've actually already accepted a story from one of the moderators for inclusion in a future collection...
But as stormphoenix (who is Jon Last, our technical writer and 'keeper of the fluff' ) said, if you wait a little you'll find we have created a huge universe of content to explore, which should aid you in your writing.
We have already asked some fantastic professional writers to contribute short fiction to future collections, I'm very excited to reveal more but I can't just yet!
Da Stormlord wrote: Do you have any idea when you will be releasing another novel?
Also, I will save some money to back you on kickstarter
Thank you! There's definitely plans for more novels (and I've started on the next one) but they aren't quick to write! We do however have a whole bunch of shorter fiction to share with you over the next few months.
I'm just about to hop on a flight, but can confirm that the first sprues will be shown in this thread, on the website and on the facebook feed tomorrow.
I think if you want more kit on your Epirians, there are a lot of options third-party for pouches and stuff. Leaving them a bit clean allows for people who don't like busy models in the 28mm scale and for people who like loads of gubbins to add them personally.
I also wholeheartedly agree with the 'build heroes/leaders into the troop sprues' sentiment. This is a great idea. It doesn't have to be an upgrade sprue either (though those are cool!), but just a 'boss head' and 'obligatory boss gear' bits and you're GTG.
Good to hear it Lego, pretty excited to see how the sprues are laid out.
Looks like a well thought out launch.
Always game for a more hard science fiction environment.
I will find a way to back this, looks like I will not need to find many reasons.
So, any threads we have on this we will get some moderators from 4chan to help out to prevent conflict of interest?
Looks good, keep us informed, I am sure we will all do what we can.
will there be options for a PDFs art book or fluff bible during the kickstarter? I definitely want the novels in paper, but something like a codex would be a great way to get the gist of the setting quickly. Also, there must be lots of design artwork in your files that would sell the look and feel of the universe.
For the professional writers you've tapped, would you say they are "about as famous as Peter F. Hamilton", "about as famous as Neal Asher", or "about as famous as Andy Remic"? If there is another author closer in genre stature, please feel free to throw his or her name out there.
motyak wrote: I think I just figured out what I'm most excited about. It isn't the rules, which look great. It isn't the models, which so far look just grand, it's the access to the fluff and the people who imagined it/wrote it all! That's the best thing that a company can do, it's what I like most about PP and I think its what I am going to like most about this.
"Why is this like this?" "Well motyak, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
I am actually more looking forwards to delving even deeper into the fluff than I was previously, weeeee
Yup, that's the best thing in my opinion so far too. My personal bugbear is when companies have no communication with their buyers (it only reallyyyy applies to GW but there are other examples occasionally). I love how open the developers have been so far and really hope it continues (I assume it will though, I'm not worried that it won't).
I have a big question about the tone and backstory of this universe.
It seems on the face of it that you may have out-grimdarked the grimdarkiest game of them all, with the imminent annihilation of everything not set sometime in the inevitable but vaguely distant future, but happening right now. In other words, this reads at the moment a bit like a sci-fi "Endtimes" game, at least for the region of the universe that it focuses on: the edge of the Maelstrom. In terms of narrative, that's an interesting choice; it feels like we're beginning with the end of something rather than the beginning, presumably arriving at the climatic crescendo of everything. It's not exactly clear how long people living on the edge have got, but it doesn't look like we're talking about centuries here.
I do hope that the future will be more complex and open-ended than that. I'd like to play in a universe where the eventual dominance of one faction (like Chaos) or inevitable annihilation by a natural event doesn't render all actions ultimately futile. It would be good to game in a world where battles have real consequences, which ultimately means they affect real futures, not just how we choose to die in a few months.
There's understandably a lot you haven't told us yet, since giving away everything at the beginning is not a good way to drum up and maintain interest. So it's impossible to know if having alien/distorted life behind, within, or even causing the Maelstrom would make or ruin the setting you're building, or whether elements of magic, psionics, time-travel, etc. would fit or derail it all. I'm sure we could have some pointless flame-wars here about whether or not those are good or terrible things to incorporate, but presumably you've already made up your minds, and whatever you've decided fits in well with your vision. At present we just know that the Karists believe they can commune with the Maelstrom via trance, and there are some visual cues on their armor that may indicate that they attempt to harvest and employ Maelstrom energy on the battlefield in some capacity. I don't know if you'll be able to maintain it, but I really like the present ambiguity as to whether there is actually anything to Karist beliefs about the Maelstrom, or whether they are just dangerous delusions.
Finally, I hope you will eventually have some sort of horrific, non-human or altered human faction. It could be Lovecraftian, or cybernetic, or Artificially intelligent, or undead, or - and this would be asking a lot, but hey, maybe you're geniuses - something genuinely new, a completely non-derivative sci-fi menace. Psychologically, the Karists have a horrific edge already due to their convictions (if you're on the wrong side of them), and the Epireans, as countless sci-fi films have shown us, have plenty of horrific potential as corporations following Social Darwinist principles. But ultimately your game will fare better, I believe, if it incorporates at least one physically weird / horrific faction in its second or third wave. And by weird / horrific I do not mean Evil; even the most frightening, hideous things presumably have reasons and rationales for what they do, knowable or not. Even ticks are just trying to survive and reproduce when they attach themselves to our nooks and crannies and give us Lyme disease, after all. Little bastards.
motyak wrote: I think I just figured out what I'm most excited about. It isn't the rules, which look great. It isn't the models, which so far look just grand, it's the access to the fluff and the people who imagined it/wrote it all! That's the best thing that a company can do, it's what I like most about PP and I think its what I am going to like most about this.
"Why is this like this?" "Well motyak, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
I am actually more looking forwards to delving even deeper into the fluff than I was previously, weeeee
Yup, that's the best thing in my opinion so far too. My personal bugbear is when companies have no communication with their buyers (it only reallyyyy applies to GW but there are other examples occasionally). I love how open the developers have been so far and really hope it continues (I assume it will though, I'm not worried that it won't).
Thanks, there will be times when we are busy doing other things and we're all in different timezones so replies to specific questions may take some time but we'll do our best to keep communication lines open!
We are science fiction and wargame fans ourselves and so we hope we understand what you guys are looking for. There will be times we can't reveal everything but we want to be as open and honest as we can so you can get as excited about Maelstrom's Edge as we are!
BobtheInquisitor wrote:will there be options for a PDFs art book or fluff bible during the kickstarter? I definitely want the novels in paper, but something like a codex would be a great way to get the gist of the setting quickly. Also, there must be lots of design artwork in your files that would sell the look and feel of the universe.
For the professional writers you've tapped, would you say they are "about as famous as Peter F. Hamilton", "about as famous as Neal Asher", or "about as famous as Andy Remic"? If there is another author closer in genre stature, please feel free to throw his or her name out there.
This is one of those things I can't talk about, but you're in the right ballpark with that range of talent.
The rulebook will have lots of great art and fluff in it and will be available in both pdf and hard copy.
It seems on the face of it that you may have out-grimdarked the grimdarkiest game of them all, with the imminent annihilation of everything not set sometime in the inevitable but vaguely distant future, but happening right now. In other words, this reads at the moment a bit like a sci-fi "Endtimes" game, at least for the region of the universe that it focuses on: the edge of the Maelstrom. In terms of narrative, that's an interesting choice; it feels like we're beginning with the end of something rather than the beginning, presumably arriving at the climatic crescendo of everything. It's not exactly clear how long people living on the edge have got, but it doesn't look like we're talking about centuries here.
One of the challenges of designing a background for a wargame is coming up with a reason for everyone to be willing to fight everyone else... and even themselves. The sheer chaos caused by the Maelstrom does a perfect job of providing that reason, IMO.
But while the Maelstrom promises imminent annihilation for those worlds on the edge, the sheer size of the galaxy means that there is still plenty of room for the story to continue. The story for individual worlds on the Edge will be short. What happens as the Maelstrom continues to advance? That's a much longer story.
The Maelstrom promises the eventual destruction of everything... but it's not certain. It might burn itself out. Someone might figure out how to stop it. The Karists might be right. Or there may be some other thing that comes along that saves the day... So it provides the perfect trigger for conflict, while still allowing for that glimmer of hope.
That's kind of what I was thinking too, they say they aren't trying to go as grimdark as 40k, but with MEdge the galaxy is actually blowing up constantly in the background no matter what you do, whereas with 40k there are just tons of threats besieging humanity.
But at the same time, the 'there is only war' line doesn't apply. The Karists fight Epirians for the right to preach their ways, the Epirian upper classes callously abandon worlds worth of settlers to their sad fate, but the planets aren't constantly being attacked by orks, or giant space bugs, or evil space terminators. On worlds far enough from the Edge, there are decades of life, often hard lives spent working your ass off to buy your family a ticket to a world further towards the outer rim... but while there's the constant wave of doom approaching, the constant threat of annihilation from various enemies is less.
More of a creeping doom than a zomg threats from every angle. And within that setting the skirmishes and wars happen when factions bump heads.
So its an interesting mix of doom/gloom and optimism. As long as you can keep moving out, there's hope for you and your descendents I guess.
As for the Karists, if you read the first novel it isn't far in before you find out they use energy from the Cybel network to power at least some of their technology, and they seem to have enslaved/indentured a race of aliens to work for their purposes. I'm not sure how sentient/intelligent the Angels are, but they're supposed to be largely amorphous critters that can assume most any convenient shape, and who seem to subsist off of the energy in the Cybel network.
*edit* Also, what Insaniak said, I was thinking it but didn't say it. 40k pretty much wants you to believe there is no hope, there are literally just too damn many threats encroaching on humanity from within, without, and from the warp and beyond, humans will never win. MEdge still gives you hope, even though there's an obvious time limit ticking down.. there's hope in fleeing the Maelstrom's Edge.
*edit edit* Lastly, I really have to say it's a very interesting angle to come from too. Starting at the core and working out! This in and of itself is relatively unique. Usually after you expand, you go too far and something starts eating you up from the outside in. You wake up the necrons or tyranids. Colonies get forgotten or go dark, the known universe actually shrinks because of encroaching threats. With MEdge... it seems the very opposite, your core, safety zone, everything that you know is blown up first, and you have to flee into the unknown to survive. So there's hope, but at the same time its terrifying. Maybe you'll flee the Edge just to run into some otherworldly living galaxy that decides to politely devour your entire species as they flee willingly into it's being, just a thought
winterdyne wrote: Robed legs and a different upper torso would work well.
That was kind of what I meant. While you wouldn't necessarily need everything to be new, you would need more than a new head and arm (for example). I still think the upgrade sprue concept is a good one though. It allows lots of easy modifications to existing kits when new options become available.
Reading the drop scene in the first book with the Karists wrapped in robes to cover their armour would be a very neat concept for an upgrade sprue that would make troops in disguise, or the priests at any time. It was also something that came up during the (dare I mention it) GoAks that simple upgrade sprues would easily allow for things like desert equipment or snow equipment to modify the base troops.
Prestor Jon wrote: I like the Epireans, I have a ton of scifi troopers with guns from various companies that I want to use for a game that suits me better than 40K. I don't have any issue with the proportions and the shoulderpads I can live with since for some reason game designers everywhere are convinced that in the future all soldiers will need shoulderpads even though they've been rendered impractical centuries ago.
My only criticize for the Epirean model shown is that he needs more gear. Even if he isn't going to have a pack he still needs webbing for ammo pouches, medkit, canteen etc. Nobody goes into a battle with just a rifle and one magazine. Hopefully there are more bits available on the sprues for the Epireans, if not I'll just have to dig some out of my bits box.
Vermonter wrote: Thematically the Karists are also a lot more compelling to me, mostly because I'm a sucker for sci-fi fanatical zealots / religious cults. Corporate-style factions like the Epireans are kind of a human baseline faction for a lot of sci-fi. I don't say they shouldn't exist - they're probably necessary just to anchor the fictional universe with a relataible / understandable human group. But that same necessity / ubiquity can make Corporate humanity seem a bit vanilla.
I don't really like either of the two factions. Despite being an atheist, I'd be much more interested in a non-cult religious faction as the good guys, like my old "What if the Salvation Army had an army?" faction, the Order of the Shield.
The Karis in some ways make me think of the Nod from the Command and Conquer games. I'm not sure why, and that mindset can obviously be dispelled once I learn more about the game, but it's sort of the impression I have right now. Maybe something between Nod and Menoth from Warmachine.
Vermonter wrote: ...a non-cult religious faction as the good guys, like my old "What if the Salvation Army had an army?" faction, the Order of the Shield.
The Salvation Marine Corps. You don't walk past their donation pot without putting something in, if you know what's good for you.
Back to the OP, I'm curious how FLGSs will be linked into this, if at all.
Man, I can't wait to see some more. I've been looking for a new game to play for awhile, and I like fluff more than anything, so I'm really interested to learn about your universe.
Can't wait to see some more mini pics and I'll be looking around for the kickstarter
AlexHolker wrote: ...a non-cult religious faction as the good guys, like my old "What if the Salvation Army had an army?" faction, the Order of the Shield.
The Salvation Marine Corps. You don't walk past their donation pot without putting something in, if you know what's good for you.
No. This is apparently a difficult concept for people to grasp, but I'm talking about a faction who - stay with me here - are not donkey-caves. Not a doomsday cult who converts others by the sword, not some corporation which cares for nothing but its own self-interest, good guys who try to keep the peace and get everybody evacuated before the Maelstrom hits.
AlexHolker wrote: ...a non-cult religious faction as the good guys, like my old "What if the Salvation Army had an army?" faction, the Order of the Shield.
The Salvation Marine Corps. You don't walk past their donation pot without putting something in, if you know what's good for you.
No. This is apparently a difficult concept for people to grasp, but I'm talking about a faction who - stay with me here - are not donkey-caves. Not a doomsday cult who converts others by the sword, not some corporation which cares for nothing but its own self-interest, good guys who try to keep the peace and get everybody evacuated before the Maelstrom hits.
I think if you delve a bit deeper into our world and fiction in the future, hopefully you'll see that's not our intention with either faction. We don't have an explicitly good or evil faction, but that doesn't mean that there aren't heroes (or villains) within them. Personally, I think the best stories come where the characters are people in all their many types and motivations. The Maelstrom is the ultimate testing ground to see how they choose to live their lives - do they want to be altruistic and try to help people, or are they just out for themselves?
There will be branches of the Epirian Foundation that will be callous and ruthless in pursuing only what's profitable. But there will be other worlds where the local trustees and sheriffs decide to do their best to save everyone they can. Similarly for the Karist Enclave, some of the hardline warriors believe that bringing their religion at the tip of a pulse carbine is the only way to ensure the Karist Way is spread, whilst there are huge numbers of the Karist Kaddar priesthood out on doomed worlds, trying to get as many of the vulnerable offworld where they can take the time to decide for themselves how to live their lives, so they can prepare themselves to meet ascension at the time that they are ready.
I hope that with time, we can convince you that there is room for both sides within our factions - and that this gives us a lot more scope for creating the kind of compelling conflict that leads to great fiction and the motivation for why the people on the Edge are fighting each other, even when they belong to the 'same' faction. One of my big bugbears when I was playing other wargames was playing games where I turn up with the same army as my opponent, even down to the colour scheme and theme, and we fight, despite there being no logical explanation in the fluff why such a battle might occur. By giving a bit of ambiguity and dissent within each faction, so that there are disagreements and conflict between members of the same group, I hope that we can give a good reason why these armies might come to battle each other, as well providing a really rich setting for us to tell you great stories, and allowing you the freedom to decide what kind of Karists or Epirians you want your army to be.
AlexHolker wrote: No. This is apparently a difficult concept for people to grasp, but I'm talking about a faction who - stay with me here - are not donkey-caves. Not a doomsday cult who converts others by the sword, not some corporation which cares for nothing but its own self-interest, good guys who try to keep the peace and get everybody evacuated before the Maelstrom hits.
The problem with that sort of faction is that they're not really particularly believable.
Individuals might be selfless. But any large organisation is ultimately going to be out to protect their own interests. They might justify it as being for the ultimate good of everyone (as the Karists do) but sooner or later it all comes down to the hard decisions, which are going to be decided on the basis of what is best for that organisation rather than what is best for everyone else... because otherwise that organisation won't survive.
Although it's worth noting that the Karist movement isn't a completely unified front (as is going to happen in any big enough organisation), and the level to which they use force as opposed to diplomacy is going to vary from branch to branch. For a group with their aims, soldiers aren't just for converting people by force... they can just as easily be for defence while trying to organise evacuees.
That's part of the point of painting the different factions in shades of grey - it opens up all sorts of possibilities for your own faction.
I have a big question about the tone and backstory of this universe.
It seems on the face of it that you may have out-grimdarked the grimdarkiest game of them all, with the imminent annihilation of everything not set sometime in the inevitable but vaguely distant future, but happening right now. In other words, this reads at the moment a bit like a sci-fi "Endtimes" game, at least for the region of the universe that it focuses on: the edge of the Maelstrom. In terms of narrative, that's an interesting choice; it feels like we're beginning with the end of something rather than the beginning, presumably arriving at the climatic crescendo of everything. It's not exactly clear how long people living on the edge have got, but it doesn't look like we're talking about centuries here.[
I do hope that the future will be more complex and open-ended than that. I'd like to play in a universe where the eventual dominance of one faction (like Chaos) or inevitable annihilation by a natural event doesn't render all actions ultimately futile. It would be good to game in a world where battles have real consequences, which ultimately means they affect real futures, not just how we choose to die in a few months.
One of the challenges of designing a background for a wargame is coming up with a reason for everyone to be willing to fight everyone else... and even themselves. The sheer chaos caused by the Maelstrom does a perfect job of providing that reason, IMO.
But while the Maelstrom promises imminent annihilation for those worlds on the edge, the sheer size of the galaxy means that there is still plenty of room for the story to continue. The story for individual worlds on the Edge will be short. What happens as the Maelstrom continues to advance? That's a much longer story.
The Maelstrom promises the eventual destruction of everything... but it's not certain. It might burn itself out. Someone might figure out how to stop it. The Karists might be right. Or there may be some other thing that comes along that saves the day... So it provides the perfect trigger for conflict, while still allowing for that glimmer of hope.
GrimDork wrote:Interesting thoughts, Vermonter.
That's kind of what I was thinking too, they say they aren't trying to go as grimdark as 40k, but with MEdge the galaxy is actually blowing up constantly in the background no matter what you do, whereas with 40k there are just tons of threats besieging humanity.
But at the same time, the 'there is only war' line doesn't apply. The Karists fight Epirians for the right to preach their ways, the Epirian upper classes callously abandon worlds worth of settlers to their sad fate, but the planets aren't constantly being attacked by orks, or giant space bugs, or evil space terminators. On worlds far enough from the Edge, there are decades of life, often hard lives spent working your ass off to buy your family a ticket to a world further towards the outer rim... but while there's the constant wave of doom approaching, the constant threat of annihilation from various enemies is less.
More of a creeping doom than a zomg threats from every angle. And within that setting the skirmishes and wars happen when factions bump heads.
So its an interesting mix of doom/gloom and optimism. As long as you can keep moving out, there's hope for you and your descendents I guess.
As for the Karists, if you read the first novel it isn't far in before you find out they use energy from the Cybel network to power at least some of their technology, and they seem to have enslaved/indentured a race of aliens to work for their purposes. I'm not sure how sentient/intelligent the Angels are, but they're supposed to be largely amorphous critters that can assume most any convenient shape, and who seem to subsist off of the energy in the Cybel network.
*edit* Also, what Insaniak said, I was thinking it but didn't say it. 40k pretty much wants you to believe there is no hope, there are literally just too damn many threats encroaching on humanity from within, without, and from the warp and beyond, humans will never win. MEdge still gives you hope, even though there's an obvious time limit ticking down.. there's hope in fleeing the Maelstrom's Edge.
*edit edit* Lastly, I really have to say it's a very interesting angle to come from too. Starting at the core and working out! This in and of itself is relatively unique. Usually after you expand, you go too far and something starts eating you up from the outside in. You wake up the necrons or tyranids. Colonies get forgotten or go dark, the known universe actually shrinks because of encroaching threats. With MEdge... it seems the very opposite, your core, safety zone, everything that you know is blown up first, and you have to flee into the unknown to survive. So there's hope, but at the same time its terrifying. Maybe you'll flee the Edge just to run into some otherworldly living galaxy that decides to politely devour your entire species as they flee willingly into it's being, just a thought
First off, this is a great question, Vermonter, and insaniak and GrimDork have captured a lot of what I wanted to say in response!
When I first joined the team in the very early days, the idea of the Maelstrom was what excited me most. I've been playing games my whole life, and I'm naturally as a writer most attracted to the narrative of a game. I like building, painting and playing with an army that I've come up with an identity and character for, and then I love it when I'm playing a tournament or a campaign that has a story element to it, that the actions in any one game make a difference to the way the world develops and my army's part in it.
One of the things that frustrated me with the narrative of a lot of wargames I've played over the years is that the reasons for the armies fighting are really tenuous. There are factions that fight just because they like fighting, or because they've always been at war with Eurasia, or because they are evil bwhahah or just because they want to destroy everything. That doesn't excite me, as a writer or a player. I can enjoy the game and the battles despite that, but it leaves my narrative cravings unsatisfied.
The Maelstrom is destroying each star system in turn, creeping its way across the Spiral Arm (which is the only known settled part of the galaxy). It started near the Capital Worlds further into the centre of the galaxy, and exploded outward, gobbling up many of the richest and most advanced planets and civilisations in a few decades. The Maelstrom travels much faster along the cybel tunnels of dark energy that stretch between objects of large mass, like stars or Jupiter-sized planets, than it does in open space. At the centre of the galaxy, where the density of stars is higher, the expansion was quick and brutal.
Now, some thousand years later or so, the process is a little slower, but unpredictable. When you first spot that purple stain in the sky, it might be decades or even a generation before your world is destroyed. It may be faster, if a cybel tunnel ruptures and the Maelstrom accelerates along it. But you have some time, to work out what to do next. I think that gives us lots of tension and inevitable conflict (which, in a wargame, we really want), but there's also hope.
People really have a reason to fight and strive on the Edge. To work as a Contractor for the Foundation, so that you can earn a berth on an evacuation ship for your family. To dig up metals and build ships and robots, so you can save more people. To dedicate your life to teaching people how to live better, so that they are prepared for the coming ascension. To steal a vessel and pilot it out of the system with as much booty as you can strongarm for yourself. To use the chaos to overthrow your oppressive government. To search through abandoned buildings on worlds inches away from destruction, hunting for that perfect treasure to make your fortune. To gain power so you can become warlord over everything you can.
I think there's room in our universe for a more complex and open-ended future.
Vermonter wrote:
Finally, I hope you will eventually have some sort of horrific, non-human or altered human faction. It could be Lovecraftian, or cybernetic, or Artificially intelligent, or undead, or - and this would be asking a lot, but hey, maybe you're geniuses - something genuinely new, a completely non-derivative sci-fi menace. Psychologically, the Karists have a horrific edge already due to their convictions (if you're on the wrong side of them), and the Epireans, as countless sci-fi films have shown us, have plenty of horrific potential as corporations following Social Darwinist principles. But ultimately your game will fare better, I believe, if it incorporates at least one physically weird / horrific faction in its second or third wave. And by weird / horrific I do not mean Evil; even the most frightening, hideous things presumably have reasons and rationales for what they do, knowable or not. Even ticks are just trying to survive and reproduce when they attach themselves to our nooks and crannies and give us Lyme disease, after all. Little bastards.
I think you will be happy with what we'll come up with, both in future factions and what we'll announce in the next few weeks.
AlexHolker wrote: ...a non-cult religious faction as the good guys, like my old "What if the Salvation Army had an army?" faction, the Order of the Shield.
The Salvation Marine Corps. You don't walk past their donation pot without putting something in, if you know what's good for you.
No. This is apparently a difficult concept for people to grasp, but I'm talking about a faction who - stay with me here - are not donkey-caves. Not a doomsday cult who converts others by the sword, not some corporation which cares for nothing but its own self-interest, good guys who try to keep the peace and get everybody evacuated before the Maelstrom hits.
Well since the Epirean faction is corporatized there must be departments/companies/whatever the term for subdivisions is that perform altruistic charity work for the sake of the tax deductions and nonprofits and NGOs that work from donations. The Maelstrom is an extinction event level crisis so think how immense and powerful a Red Cross type of organization would get when everyone is desperate to survive.
So let me get this straight. During the golden age of technology when mankind was exploring space. A massive warp storm starts eating world's excuse me I meant the maelstrom starts eating worlds?
There are some that can commune with the warp err I mean melstrom and gain powers in their psychic oops I mean meditative state?
computertrucker wrote: So let me get this straight. During the golden age of technology when mankind was exploring space. A massive warp storm starts eating world's excuse me I meant the maelstrom starts eating worlds?
There are some that can commune with the warp err I mean melstrom and gain powers in their psychic oops I mean meditative state?
Made an account just for that ehh? Or did you want to trash talk something without showing your 'face' hereabouts?
Cute.
Interesting parallels I guess. I don't think the big bad purple thing is really equivalent to 40k's Warp though.
The level of idea saturation that exists in this day and age, it's to the point you could point out almost anything new as derivative if you really had the motive to do so.
My understanding is that the Maelstrom destroys absolutely everything - the Karists certainly believe in the Ascension, but as far as every other living thing is concerned, it's more like "the Nothing" from The Never Ending Story than 40k's warp.
computertrucker wrote: So let me get this straight. During the golden age of technology when mankind was exploring space. A massive warp storm starts eating world's excuse me I meant the maelstrom starts eating worlds?
There are some that can commune with the warp err I mean melstrom and gain powers in their psychic oops I mean meditative state?
This sounds very original!
There is absolutely no similarity between a 40K warp storm and the Maelstrom.
And I'm not sure where you got the bit about 'gaining powers' from communing with the Maelstrom. Communion doesn't grant them powers. It puts them in a meditative state, and helps prepare their minds for the supposed Ascension.
I think it's hilarious he's trying to make the case that 40k is in any way original. But no, he's right- 40k invented fanatics and grim environments and warpstorms- they also invented space marines! Just go ask the guy that wrote Starship Troopers, he was channeling Kirby's thoughts from the future!
Really intrigued by all this! I don't post a lot on dakka but I've been reading it for years and am definitely interested in a squad based skirmish game!
Definitely prefer the Karist over the Eprian right now, nothing wrong with the Eprian imo but I'm just not usually a fan of human factions especially unarmored. That said, if robots play a big part of each faction then I'm likely to enjoy both.
The rule overview has me pretty excited and there is a very good chance of it replacing 40k for my 'large model count' games.
Price will be a factor but I will be very surprised if I don't go in for a starter.
Haven't decided how a feel about the models yet but I love the universe and would like to get my hands on the story. Any approx of when the books will be out in soft cover? Will they be available to buy during the KS? I would really like to read them but I do not have a Kindle and with all the time I spend working on the computer during the day my eyes are not up to reading a story (no matter how awesome) on the computer at night.
Accolade wrote: I think it's hilarious he's trying to make the case that 40k is in any way original. But no, he's right- 40k invented fanatics and grim environments and warpstorms- they also invented space marines! Just go ask the guy that wrote Starship Troopers, he was channeling Kirby's thoughts from the future!
Who Heinlein? I'm not actually sure if he was even the first to come up with that idea honestly. I really love Starship Troopers though (the book, not the movie).
Personally I think the idea of the Maelstrom is a really good one, and not something you could compare to a warpstorm anyways. It seems to me the Maelstrom is a steadily advancing destructive force gradually devouring all in it's path. I only know what I've read here so far, but too me, that's a great plot device to sow division all along the edges of the galaxy and I can easily envision the levels of hysteria it would cause in all those who knew their end was on it's way whether they liked it or not. All sorts of plots and actions can hatch from that, some destructive, others benevolent.
My only real concern is if advancing the storyline with a giant destructive force being the major strife building plot device, how long can we expect to draw out the galaxies destruction? In game and fluff terms, are we assuming even with story advances, everything just takes place in some really long timeframe, while everyone knows the end is coming? I mean, I guess are we talking years, decades, enough time to create ark ships to travel outside the furthest sphere of the galaxy?
I'll read the books as soon as I can and hopefully gain some insight there.
Oh hey, on a sidenote, will there be female models? I ask because what's shown here initially is all dudes, but I imagine in this particular universe, men, women and even children might end up in fighting or support roles given the dire state of the galaxy.
I do also hope in future we'll see some tanks. I know it was stated already that vehicles are at least initially a lot to design and work around, but I do really love vehicles even if they're small ones.
That's about all I had to wonder about atm. I love you....
It would be interesting to see that the religious faction may like the followers of the marker in Deadspace are deluded on what the maelstrom really is, i hope it is some kind of ascension, and there will come out a new faction like the reapers off mass effect or something else.
If everyone is fleeing the imminent destruction, will there be a space based faction like the nomads in infinity?
Phyrekzhogos wrote: My only real concern is if advancing the storyline with a giant destructive force being the major strife building plot device, how long can we expect to draw out the galaxies destruction? In game and fluff terms, are we assuming even with story advances, everything just takes place in some really long timeframe, while everyone knows the end is coming? I mean, I guess are we talking years, decades, enough time to create ark ships to travel outside the furthest sphere of the galaxy?
It depends on which bit of the story you're focussing on.
The galaxy is a big place. It's taken a thousand years for the Maelstrom to reach as far as it has, and it still has a ways to go. So the overall story arc is potentially quite long.
On a more 'local' focus, though... the Maelstrom's passage through individual systems, once it actually reaches them, can be quite swift. So there's all sorts of potential for stories or campaigns or the like to focus on individual worlds or small sectors of space, in that volatile time as the Maelstrom makes its approach and finally sweeps through.
That can then have a ripple effect on the overall story... as different regions are destroyed, the balance of power can shift between different factions, access to resources changes, new information can be gathered on the Maelstrom...
That's part of what I find so exciting about this setting - there is almost limitless potential for things to evolve organically while still keeping the basic premise of the setting intact.
Oh hey, on a sidenote, will there be female models?
Lego had said earlier in the thread that the current focus on males exclusively is down to the logistics of launching a new range from scratch, but that it was a potential option for the future.
If anything, the maelstrom sort of reminds me of that james spader sci-fi movie (supernova?) where at the end there's going to be a wave encompassing the galaxy that will either elevate humanity to a new plane of existence or else destroy it utterly. But even still, i wouldn't call it a copy. Still waiting for more info to be released, how long has it been? Are we there yet?
The galaxy is a big place. It's taken a thousand years for the Maelstrom to reach as far as it has, and it still has a ways to go. So the overall story arc is potentially quite long.
Aha! I like that sort of timeframe. I can imagine a campaign setting in a single system that the maelstrom is literally tearing its way through being an awesome focus for a plot of fighting between multiple factions trying to take over the last access to outbound system ships or something, being really awesome.
I can also imagine the moves and motives of the larger factions making plays on the outskirts of the galaxy as they try and take or keep potential systems filled with supplies, science bases, agricultural reserves, rich mineral or rare element deposits or large population centers.
This has tons and tons of potential for storylines. I can't wait to see where that goes.
Oh hey, on a sidenote, will there be female models?
Lego had said earlier in the thread that the current focus on males exclusively is down to the logistics of launching a new range from scratch, but that it was a potential option for the future.
Awww, I must've missed that post. Well I do look forward to seeing how that plays out. I love the scope of what you've come up with so I hope I can eventually play a disparate group of men, women and aliens banding together and running scared in a desperate bid for survival against other larger overwhelming forces. /sage nod
I think there's room in our universe for a more complex and open-ended future.
Many thanks darrkespur, GrimDork, Insaniak, and everyone for the thoughtful replies. This all sounds very promising. I'm actually tempted to read the books now.
darrkespur wrote: I think you will be happy with what we'll come up with, both in future factions and what we'll announce in the next few weeks.
I'm liking the first book so far, Vermonter. I really tend to *want* to like scifi books, but often they lose my interest for various reasons. So far, I'm doing ok with this one.
Lots of things could happen to stop the Maelstrom, maybe humanity flees out past the cybel network and the expansion of the maelstrom is so slow to follow that they can forget it. Or, maybe they find out how it started and they detonate some kind of uber bomb at a node causing another maelstrom to head towards the first and they cancel out See, there's Hope in this setting, but for the time being there will be loads of desperate squabbles and fights between the various factions.
Not to lend credence to an obvious troll, but at one point in the first novel, they do mention a shadow walker (or similar) who can basically teleport short (as far as I know) distances due to exposure to the Cybel network and learning to use it.
To me though, this doesn't cheapen anything, but instead opens up a whole world of possibility. I'll have to chime in more as I read, but mostly only reading before bed.
I can't really say that I'm a fan of the Maelstrom, it is too close to the 40k 15 minutes to midnight style universe. Either everything dies, at which point the plot attains a certain uneasy ending, or people survive in something which, given the scope of the threat, feels contrived. I don't think that it is a good idea, but right now I can't think of another.
About the game, do the designers have an idea about how to balance army building with the desire of people to put whatever they own in a battle? For, as much as 40K Unbound seems ridiculous, I must admit that any 40K army I ever build will abuse Unbound to its fullest, as I'll go for model design as much as rules. Do you have a plan to balance the need for an equal game with the desire of players to play with what they have / want?
DrRansom wrote: I can't really say that I'm a fan of the Maelstrom, it is too close to the 40k 15 minutes to midnight style universe. Either everything dies, at which point the plot attains a certain uneasy ending, or people survive in something which, given the scope of the threat, feels contrived. I don't think that it is a good idea, but right now I can't think of another.
I sort of agree, except this is a little more in your face than it is with 40k. The end is coming, but its rather nebulous and might take centuries or millennia from the current time, and has been going on for 10,000 years.
Thats not to say it can't be worked with. Someone might come up with a solution or they might escape.
DrRansom wrote: I can't really say that I'm a fan of the Maelstrom, it is too close to the 40k 15 minutes to midnight style universe. Either everything dies, at which point the plot attains a certain uneasy ending, or people survive in something which, given the scope of the threat, feels contrived. I don't think that it is a good idea, but right now I can't think of another.
I sort of agree, except this is a little more in your face than it is with 40k. The end is coming, but its rather nebulous and might take centuries or millennia from the current time, and has been going on for 10,000 years.
Thats not to say it can't be worked with. Someone might come up with a solution or they might escape.
Well we only have gotten a taste of it so far.
So i will reserve judgement until I have read and play tested it.
Last time I was asked to fix something for a game project it was a major issue with how the gameplay interacted between players.
DrRansom wrote: I can't really say that I'm a fan of the Maelstrom, it is too close to the 40k 15 minutes to midnight style universe. Either everything dies, at which point the plot attains a certain uneasy ending, or people survive in something which, given the scope of the threat, feels contrived. I don't think that it is a good idea, but right now I can't think of another.
I sort of agree, except this is a little more in your face than it is with 40k. The end is coming, but its rather nebulous and might take centuries or millennia from the current time, and has been going on for 10,000 years.
Thats not to say it can't be worked with. Someone might come up with a solution or they might escape.
The planets on the edge of the Maelstrom are at full on apocalypse and are doomed in the very near future, but dont underestimate just how huge the galaxy is - around 100K light years wide. The colonised human sphere is limited to a single Spiral Arm, but the Maelstrom will still take a huge number of generations to cover the whole thing. Beyond that, the universe is bigger than the galaxy. Our stories are centred on the edge, where the bulk of humanity is being forced to flee towards the rim of the galaxy, but our time frame on a galactic/human survival scale is a lot broader than 40k's 15 minutes to midnight.
AlexHolker wrote: ...a non-cult religious faction as the good guys, like my old "What if the Salvation Army had an army?" faction, the Order of the Shield.
The Salvation Marine Corps. You don't walk past their donation pot without putting something in, if you know what's good for you.
No. This is apparently a difficult concept for people to grasp, but I'm talking about a faction who - stay with me here - are not donkey-caves. Not a doomsday cult who converts others by the sword, not some corporation which cares for nothing but its own self-interest, good guys who try to keep the peace and get everybody evacuated before the Maelstrom hits.
You mean like the Ultramarines? Everyone loves them, right?
To be honest, I feel exactly the same way. My favorite 40k books by Abnett read like Christian Fiction with lasguns. I don't believe in saints or miracles, but I love reading about them. Honest men and women of faith with huge plasma rifles are chicken soup for my soul.
DrRansom wrote: I can't really say that I'm a fan of the Maelstrom, it is too close to the 40k 15 minutes to midnight style universe. Either everything dies, at which point the plot attains a certain uneasy ending, or people survive in something which, given the scope of the threat, feels contrived. I don't think that it is a good idea, but right now I can't think of another.
I sort of agree, except this is a little more in your face than it is with 40k. The end is coming, but its rather nebulous and might take centuries or millennia from the current time, and has been going on for 10,000 years.
Thats not to say it can't be worked with. Someone might come up with a solution or they might escape.
The planets on the edge of the Maelstrom are at full on apocalypse and are doomed in the very near future, but dont underestimate just how huge the galaxy is - around 100K light years wide. The colonised human sphere is limited to a single Spiral Arm, but the Maelstrom will still take a huge number of generations to cover the whole thing. Beyond that, the universe is bigger than the galaxy. Our stories are centred on the edge, where the bulk of humanity is being forced to flee towards the rim of the galaxy, but our time frame on a galactic/human survival scale is a lot broader than 40k's 15 minutes to midnight.
Ahh, I see I misinterpreted things.
Its more like there is a definite count down, but its still a long way off. Like if we knew the universe would end in 15,000 years.
DrRansom wrote: I can't really say that I'm a fan of the Maelstrom, it is too close to the 40k 15 minutes to midnight style universe. Either everything dies, at which point the plot attains a certain uneasy ending, or people survive in something which, given the scope of the threat, feels contrived. I don't think that it is a good idea, but right now I can't think of another.
I sort of agree, except this is a little more in your face than it is with 40k. The end is coming, but its rather nebulous and might take centuries or millennia from the current time, and has been going on for 10,000 years.
Thats not to say it can't be worked with. Someone might come up with a solution or they might escape.
The planets on the edge of the Maelstrom are at full on apocalypse and are doomed in the very near future, but dont underestimate just how huge the galaxy is - around 100K light years wide. The colonised human sphere is limited to a single Spiral Arm, but the Maelstrom will still take a huge number of generations to cover the whole thing. Beyond that, the universe is bigger than the galaxy. Our stories are centred on the edge, where the bulk of humanity is being forced to flee towards the rim of the galaxy, but our time frame on a galactic/human survival scale is a lot broader than 40k's 15 minutes to midnight.
Ahh, I see I misinterpreted things.
Its more like there is a definite count down, but its still a long way off. Like if we knew the universe would end in 15,000 years.
Yep, but I think unlike 40k, MEdge isn't without hope. There's always the possibility that someone figures out a way to bypass/contain/stop the Maelstrom. I'm guessing it's not all pyrrhic victories, just instead very dire states throughout.
computertrucker wrote: So let me get this straight. During the golden age of technology when mankind was exploring space. A massive warp storm starts eating world's excuse me I meant the maelstrom starts eating worlds?
There are some that can commune with the warp err I mean melstrom and gain powers in their psychic oops I mean meditative state?
This sounds very original!
Nice first post. Very original.
To be fair, we all thought something like that at one point. I mean, come on.
Yeah, and the xx-thousand years off is the doomsday clock for humanity in general. Specific planets may have a single generation, or decade. They may have determined they have 10 years but then the maelstrom expands through an unexpected strand of the cybel network and then its there in 2 years. On the Edge, things are pretty desperate and immediate. Many systems out you'll want to make sure you invest properly so your descendents an afford tickets offworld in a century or two.
Its more like there is a definite count down, but its still a long way off. Like if we knew the universe would end in 15,000 years.
With the caveat that, for individual worlds right on the Edge, that end is obviously altogether closer...
And as GrimDork suggests, the unpredictability of the Maelstrom's movement means that those closer worlds have no real idea just how long they have. They just know that it's coming.
For that matter, even those worlds further away would have to consider that they don't understand the Maelstrom, and so would have to plan for the idea that things may change without warning. So even in those 'safe' areas, I would imagine there would be a certain amount of paranoia and apprehension butting up against those who feel that they have nothing to worry about because it's all so far away...
It's disappointing to hear that the cool women in the novels won't be represented on the tabletop, at least in the beginning. I guess at least conversion should be relatively easy using third-party parts already on the market.
ETA: I also just want to say that I think the contractor guy looks really cool.
We do not have any explicitly female models in our first phase of sculpting, but have instead opted to go for gender ambiguity wherever we can. It simply comes down to economics - only so many bits can fit on a sprue and they have to be interchangeable for mult-pose to work. The female form is notably different from the male form (primarily hips and torso) and those differences are even more extreme at the scale we use. Just having female heads and torsos would not be enough. We have a company-wide veto on making any over-sexualised female models with armour that barely covers their boobs too.
We've tried to complement this gap in our initial model range by having a lot of strong female characters in our fiction, and it is our definite goal to get female versions of models as soon as it is viable, but sadly, and after a huge amount of internal debate, we determined it was not possible for our first few releases.
Thanks all, and great to see such passionate thought about the small amounts of the universe we've revealed so far
As promised, here are some more things to draw you in to our expansive universe and awesome model range:
To pre-empt questions we've been asked before on the model design choices:
The draw lines for making a two part mould meant that we had the choice of either splitting the legs at the hip, or greatly restricting the poses available. Additionally, merging the legs to the hips would have meant that some of the edges of the nice crisp armour plates would have to be blended in to the legs which is one of those really annoying things you see in sub-standard plastics.
As a result, we opted for splitting the legs and getting more sharp detail and more poses as a result. It does make assembly a touch more fiddly, but assembly only needs to be done once, whereas crappy detail is crappy forever. It also makes conversions a bit easier as there are more pre-cut places, so bending a leg, sculpting an addition, or adding a robotic hand from the bits box is much more straightforward.
The same logic is applied for the hands - the armour plates on the forearms of the Karists meant they would be out of draw line if we had hands on the arms, so there would be no finger detail without the split there. All other models we've done since have hands attached.
We've now got the best of both worlds on our more recent plastics as we are using multi-slide core tooling to give us multiple angles of draw, allowing us to get crisp, extreme detail and have easy assembly. These images are of the very first sprues we did. They are great and we've only got better and more talented since then!
legoburner wrote: We do not have any explicitly female models in our first phase of sculpting, but have instead opted to go for gender ambiguity wherever we can. It simply comes down to economics - only so many bits can fit on a sprue and they have to be interchangeable for mult-pose to work. The female form is notably different from the male form (primarily hips and torso) and those differences are even more extreme at the scale we use. Just having female heads and torsos would not be enough.
Treating men and women as being completely incompatible and requiring separate kits would be my recommendation. Gender ambiguity is a non starter - the breadth of the chest and shoulders makes these impossible to mistake for women, and fixing that would also require redoing the arms for any two handed weapon to compensate for the narrower shoulder joints.
legoburner wrote: We do not have any explicitly female models in our first phase of sculpting, but have instead opted to go for gender ambiguity wherever we can. It simply comes down to economics - only so many bits can fit on a sprue and they have to be interchangeable for mult-pose to work. The female form is notably different from the male form (primarily hips and torso) and those differences are even more extreme at the scale we use. Just having female heads and torsos would not be enough.
Treating men and women as being completely incompatible and requiring separate kits would be my recommendation. Gender ambiguity is a non starter - the breadth of the chest and shoulders makes these impossible to mistake for women, and fixing that would also require redoing the arms for any two handed weapon to compensate for the narrower shoulder joints.
Things like the bigger power armoured guys could be male or female underneath though really.
I'm jealous - I'm sure we've all wanted to make our own game at some point or another. I remember sketching some concepts a few years back, but with the saturation of new games on kickstarter these days I'm sure I'd have no chance. Living the dream guys!
AlexHolker wrote: Treating men and women as being completely incompatible and requiring separate kits would be my recommendation. Gender ambiguity is a non starter - the breadth of the chest and shoulders makes these impossible to mistake for women, and fixing that would also require redoing the arms for any two handed weapon to compensate for the narrower shoulder joints.
Things like the bigger power armoured guys could be male or female underneath though really.
Not if it's power armour. A piloted mecha could be piloted by a man or a woman, but any suit of armour where the wearer's arms are inside the armour's arms has to conform to the proportions of the wearer's skeleton, or else you're not going to be able to do anything without dislocating your shoulders.
AlexHolker wrote: Treating men and women as being completely incompatible and requiring separate kits would be my recommendation. Gender ambiguity is a non starter - the breadth of the chest and shoulders makes these impossible to mistake for women, and fixing that would also require redoing the arms for any two handed weapon to compensate for the narrower shoulder joints.
Things like the bigger power armoured guys could be male or female underneath though really.
Not if it's power armour. A piloted mecha could be piloted by a man or a woman, but any suit of armour where the wearer's arms are inside the armour's arms has to conform to the proportions of the wearer's skeleton, or else you're not going to be able to do anything without dislocating your shoulders.
well yeah in real life, but a 28mm model, there could be women in them.
I think there's a pleasing level of genericism in the sprues, which is inevitably important. The Karist sprues I can see other uses for which, ultimately, human sprues are always going to have. In terms of the plastics used, how do they respond to different types of primer?
Especially interested in the rules.
I am still waiting for a GOOD 28mm skirmish game, and preferably hard sci-fi, not sci-fantasy.
I tried many, none got it right IMO.
I have high hopes for this one!
And i like the Karist models, but models are of secondary importance for a new game, there will be many in the future anyway and the first ones are promising enough.
Ship based factions are absolutely part of the plan, as for obvious reasons mobility is a key goal for many people in Maelstrom's Edge. We don't want to say too much about future factions yet as the development time for making each HIPS sprue is significant. We don't want to get into a situation that some games have of showing you ideas that get you excited but take years before you hold them in your hands. But in the long term, if this first launch goes well, that's definitely an area we want to explore.
Wow! What a surprise! Everything looks amazing so far. I'll definitely be making room in my hobby budget for the kickstarter campaign!
