As the title says, out of the known leaked changes such as gargantuan wraithknights with stomps, D melee (with sword), and ranged D (36' ranged heavy wraithcannons which can fire each gun at a different target with two equipped), heavy support choices and can possibly be taken up to 6-8 in one list. (now also needs 6's to poison and cannot be killed by force/instant death - just deals d3 wounds)

or the 3 shots of str 6 Ap6 at 36' for all jetbikes at 27 points each.

or something else. Vote today!

Distortion weapons being D should be an option
the D scythe is going to be the weapon people fear above anything else

I'm glad that another "complain about Eldar" thread was created. We don't have enough of them on the forum, yet.

All of the above?

A few changes I think were good. I don't mind the changes to Banshees. The Wave Serpent has been made reasonable. Crimson Hunters look more useful. Stuff like that is fine.

Formations giving BS5 to Aspect Warriors, Fire Dragons getting effectively "AP0", Distort weapons becoming Destroyer weapons, and the Jetbikes are all just unnecessary and hardly balanced.

As an Eldar player since 2008, I was really looking forward to being able to play my Eldar without people complaining. That is NOT gonna happen now.

I started Eldar to play a Jetbike army. Now I might not be able to get in games because of this OVER REACTION to the codex. Is the codex overpowered? Unfortunately, yes. But I personally don't spam Jetbikes (and will only play with scatterlasers on less that half my bikes) and I don't own any Wraithguard.

Even if I tone down my lists, people will roll their eyes when I ask for a game. Until the dust settles, I may have to use the 6th ed codex, with the 7th ed Serpents rules (of which I am happy to do, but should not have to).

It just ticks me off that I have played Eldar for longer than they have been "good" and I DO NOT spam anything (2 Serpents max, 2-3 bike units no bigger than 6 models, etc) but because EVERYONE is losing their minds about this codex, I may not get the play my favorite army as often as I want.

That I need 30 Guardians or 15 (realistic expectations here) bikes for the Decurion style. And I read something on there not being Pathfinders now? That would upset me greatly. Precision Shots were what made my list fun and I really enjoyed the Snipers...

The increased whining about how OP Eldar are is the most annoying at this juncture.

GW has established that they are more focused on money than a quality game anymore. Collective bargaining is not an option against something like this. (Let's face it, this is hardly the worst thing they've done in the last three years.)

So it's time to fish or cut bait. We either need to put in our big kid pants and deal with it, or vote with our wallets and stop playing 40k. I am happy to try to figure out how to overcome the new challenges.

All that being said, I use Eldar allies to support my DE, so my incredibly vitriolic and snarky opinion is fairly biased.

Oh yes. Another thread fruitlessly complaining about Eldar. Truly the eight threads before this were simply not enough!

In all honesty, your poll is misleading. There should be "All of the above", "None of the above" and "Some of the above" options.

I don't mind any of the rules or D Weapon. I do mind the ridiculous point cost they are coming with. Sure you want Eldar to feel all mighty powerful... since well they are. But you might want to make them very elite in this case with far less models than any other faction because of a higher pts cost per model to make it fair.

All of the above.

What makes me sad is that GW hurts everyone when they produce such horribly broken rules. Hurts the Eldar players as it "invalidates" their wins (if they can even get a game) and it hurts the non Eldar players who want a fair and fun fight. Nobody wants to be the "creeps" in a PvE game and that's what many armies are going to be relegated to unless the Eldar player handicaps themselves. It's not fair to the players of weaker armies and it's not fair to the Eldar players who would need to limit themselves to create a more even playing field.

The amount of 'omg Eldar too stronk' threads.

I don't recall any one faction getting this much attention when the Codex dropped.

I don't mind any of the changes. They are still squishy stuff.

Im more pissed that the Eldar are getting ANOTHER Dex so damn soon..... I dont want all this nonsense to be fluttering around and disrupting my investments on this hobby, nor do I want to play an army that is simply auto win for what everyone will surely think as "FOTM"

Eldar seem to have a golden stick up their arse in terms of Codex Writers and I would love to meet them and their play testers....

Ahh yes. There is a part of me that feels bad for the Eldar players that don't spam gak. However, I love knowing that there are others that are going to make the rest of the Eldar players be just as miserable as the rest of us. Welcome to world where you might have to brings something crappy so that the dwindling number of people who are willing to play you doesn't dissipate even faster.

I am also glad my army is up on ebay. Peace out and good riddens to this dumb game. CSM has been broken since it came out, DA too, GK got super nerfed, Orks wait for years and still suck, but Eldar, arguably the best RAW book out there, gets buffs. Ludicrous buffs I might add.

Check my profile for the ebay link, large CSM Army, magnetized options, commission painted.

I'm a bit surprised that "everything having D weapons" isn't an option in that poll, that's the main thing I'm a bit puzzled about.

All of the above would confuse the point as that is too easy. people need to settle on one thing they really hate.

As to the other Eldar bash threads and the number of threads, it's directly related to the imbalance now on the scene.

As to gw selling models rather than rules, it's kind of fallacy as we all know that rules sell models. There are certainly folks that buy power. Heck, we have a whole tactics thread dedicated to convincing folks of what units are good to buy if you want to beat X unit.

The D weaponry on Wraithguards. Jetbikes, Wraithguard, super aspects, all a bit acceptable. But D weaponry on measly wraithguards?

The D. I don't think they should really be on anything short of a superheavy or terrain.

 Galef wrote:
As an Eldar player since 2008, I was really looking forward to being able to play my Eldar without people complaining. That is NOT gonna happen now.

I started Eldar to play a Jetbike army. Now I might not be able to get in games because of this OVER REACTION to the codex. Is the codex overpowered? Unfortunately, yes. But I personally don't spam Jetbikes (and will only play with scatterlasers on less that half my bikes) and I don't own any Wraithguard.

Even if I tone down my lists, people will roll their eyes when I ask for a game. Until the dust settles, I may have to use the 6th ed codex, with the 7th ed Serpents rules (of which I am happy to do, but should not have to).

It just ticks me off that I have played Eldar for longer than they have been "good" and I DO NOT spam anything (2 Serpents max, 2-3 bike units no bigger than 6 models, etc) but because EVERYONE is losing their minds about this codex, I may not get the play my favorite army as often as I want.

You haven't played Eldar for longer than they've been "good". Eldar have been good forever minus 5th.

None of the above is tied with wraithknights, haha

Me: none of the above. I'm not even entirely convinced that New Eldar are more powerful than Old Eldar due to the force org changes (moving WK to LoW from Heavy as a nerf to CAD, and 3 Wraithguard units requirement in war host). I guess the Jetbike thing "bothers" me the most, but not to the point of being upsetting, at least not until I've played some games against it.

The endless bitching bothers me far more than any rules change.

Show me on the dolly where the eldar touched you.

Distortion weapons being made strength "D". As if Leman Russes weren't fragile enough as they were.

 morganfreeman wrote:

 Galef wrote:
As an Eldar player since 2008, I was really looking forward to being able to play my Eldar without people complaining. That is NOT gonna happen now.

I started Eldar to play a Jetbike army. Now I might not be able to get in games because of this OVER REACTION to the codex. Is the codex overpowered? Unfortunately, yes. But I personally don't spam Jetbikes (and will only play with scatterlasers on less that half my bikes) and I don't own any Wraithguard.

Even if I tone down my lists, people will roll their eyes when I ask for a game. Until the dust settles, I may have to use the 6th ed codex, with the 7th ed Serpents rules (of which I am happy to do, but should not have to).

It just ticks me off that I have played Eldar for longer than they have been "good" and I DO NOT spam anything (2 Serpents max, 2-3 bike units no bigger than 6 models, etc) but because EVERYONE is losing their minds about this codex, I may not get the play my favorite army as often as I want.

You haven't played Eldar for longer than they've been "good". Eldar have been good forever minus 5th.

Since I started playing them at the end of 4th ed and didn't have a solid grasp on the 40K main rules/tactics until 5th ed, my point stands: When I started playing Eldar, I did so for the LOVE of the army, not because they were "good". Heck, for almost all of 5th ed, I used Vypers because I play Saim-Hann. Vypers were (and have been) considered as sub-par unit.

I play units because I like them and it is not my fault (as an Eldar player) that the units I like became broken. If you HATE playing my army so much, just sit down and have a pre-game discussion with me and we can come up with a list that BOTH of us can agree is fun to play.

It is GW's fault for handing the players to "tools" to break the game, but only the players decide to abuse them. I am NOT one of those players and it is not fair to be judged as one.

--

Have an exalt this is my attitude.

Galef, that sounds very reasonable to me.

Reading these forums you'd think most of us were sociopaths with glowing red eyes diabolically plotting to make sure our opponents are humiliated to the maximum extent possible. Or little bunny rabbits waiting to be eaten.

Another "Lets freak out over Eldar" thread, seriously people need to calm down and stop complaining and overreacting.

I'll stop complaining when the BA have a chance against the Eldar. Or the DA for that matter.

 Talys wrote:
Galef, that sounds very reasonable to me.

Reading these forums you'd think most of us were sociopaths with glowing red eyes diabolically plotting to make sure our opponents are humiliated to the maximum extent possible. Or little bunny rabbits waiting to be eaten.

I think it's part of the "other" mentality and the fact that no has seen how scatbikes will actually work and are freaking over the mathhammer.

Martel732 wrote:
I'll stop complaining when the BA have a chance against the Eldar. Or the DA for that matter.

Eldar are not invincible and a BA Drop Pod army could do some nasty stuff against a Jetbike list if played correctly. And DA are going to be redone as well so who knows, they may be even cheesier since they are "mighty Space Marines"

 gmaleron wrote:
Another "Lets freak out over Eldar" thread, seriously people need to calm down and stop complaining and overreacting.

Just don't read the bloody Eldar threads if it annoys you so much. Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?

Its the D strength weapons for me. They set an unrealistic presidence for just more codex creep. There is no reason for guns to be that strong on basic infantry models. Hell, not even heavy infantry deserves a gun that strong. It just throws the whole game in a direction that is unfriendly for casual or even guys who just want to have a laugh.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Another "Lets freak out over Eldar" thread, seriously people need to calm down and stop complaining and overreacting.

Just don't read the bloody Eldar threads if it annoys you so much. Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?

Or people need to stop making them, I think there are over 5 so far? Enough is enough and no its not telling, its people assuming the worst without having ever played against the new book and in my experience its what always happens when an apparently good new book drops, its the end of the world. WAY to much drama.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?

^^^This is actually what worries me. I have been playing/following 40K for long enough to tell the difference between when people are complaining because their army doesn't have the same stuff as the "new hotness" and when a new army genuinely has cause for concern. The new Eldar WILL change the meta. Although with so many releases lately, who can even keep up with a "meta"?

I will not stop playing 40k as long as there are at least a few local players. This is my only hobby and over half my livingroom is dedicated to 40k (table, terrain, painting station, etc.). If too many people "rage-quit", I won't know what to do with my life! (just being dramatic to lighten the mood).

A lot of people on so many of these anti-Eldar threads have said to wait until the book comes out and see what happens. To that I would like to add: Also talk to your local Eldar players, come to an understanding of what kinds of lists you would like to play against. Please be polite in doing so. This is a game and it is up to us to make it fun

 Galef wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?

^^^This is actually what worries me. I have been playing/following 40K for long enough to tell the difference between when people are complaining because their army doesn't have the same stuff as the "new hotness" and when a new army genuinely has cause for concern. The new Eldar WILL change the meta. Although with so many releases lately, who can even keep up with a "meta"?

I will not stop playing 40k as long as there are at least a few local players. This is my only hobby and over half my livingroom is dedicated to 40k (table, terrain, painting station, etc.). If too many people "rage-quit", I won't know what to do with my life! (just being dramatic to lighten the mood).

A lot of people on so many of these anti-Eldar threads have said to wait until the book comes out and see what happens. To that I would like to add: Also talk to your local Eldar players, come to an understanding of what kinds of lists you would like to play against. Please be polite in doing so. This is a game and it is up to us to make it fun

What he said. Just wait and see. And I mean jesus christ people I want to see some other threads that aren't about these stupid Eldar

Jetbikes for one. I'm a fast close combat army with light shooting. Models that can't be caught in close combat ever that are also very relevant on the battlefield shouldn't exist. It's just more shooting > melee scale-tipping.

I also take huge issue with d-scythes. They used to be s4 ap2. Wounding t3 on 3's, t4 on 4's, bypassing any armor, but unable to hurt vehicles/MC's in general. Now they wound anything on 3+, and cause d3 wounds/hull points EACH with no fnp/reanimation. S4->S: D seems like a ludicrous jump. They are now "handle anything" flamers where a unit of 5 will down orks, guard, marines, swarms (oh dear god, do they get DOUBLE the d3 wounds??) terminators, meganobz, dark eldar multiwound beasts and abominations, light armor vehicles, medium armor vehicles, heavy armor vehicles, monstrous creatures, super heavy knights, and gargantuan creatures.

They even scare the hell out of bigger super heavies. A set of 5 will take off 7 HP average from any vehicle they touch. Even my reaver Titan would have an oil leak from seeing a unit that can do that to him for only a couple hundred points.

The WK being way beyond criminally undercosted is my 3rd issue. Just another competitive auto-take, and the only good way to deal with it is IN THE ELDAR CODEX.

4th and getting down there in offensiveness is the wraithguard standard single shot guns being str D. Not a VERY large change, but still a huge buff when targeting MC's, GC's, super heavies, and decent/heavy armor vehicles.

5th is formations. I hate all free formation bonuses, but theirs aren't all that scary.

6th anything that buffs overwatch. It's already a slowed "we hate close combat units" mechanic, except apparently for the eldar-only unit that gets to ignore it, of course.

A lot of the other changes sound like neat tabletop mechanics that make the game more interesting, like warp spider reaction jumping, and the scorpions super stealth until they are in combat, as well as the haywire impact hits on flyers. Love all those mechanics, it's just the short laundry list of insane changes that destroy my soul.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Im more pissed that the Eldar are getting ANOTHER Dex so damn soon..... I dont want all this nonsense to be fluttering around and disrupting my investments on this hobby, nor do I want to play an army that is simply auto win for what everyone will surely think as "FOTM"

Eldar seem to have a golden stick up their arse in terms of Codex Writers and I would love to meet them and their play testers....

Play testers? GW has play testers?

niv-mizzet wrote:
A lot of the other changes sound like neat tabletop mechanics that make the game more interesting, like warp spider reaction jumping, and the scorpions super stealth until they are in combat, as well as the haywire impact hits on flyers. Love all those mechanics, it's just the short laundry list of insane changes that destroy my soul.

I must agree with your last point. I love what they did with the Aspects. If the book was only the Serpent Shield nerf and the Aspect buffs I'd love it.

It's just really tough when I just got a couple of the last releases and this one is on such a completely different level.

And see how the problems of the tau seem to forgotten about

DeadWingman wrote:
And see how the problems of the tau seem to forgotten about

Nothing wrong with the Tau, their power dropped off a lot since 6th and are not longer a top tier army.

losing wraithguard as Troops has to be the worst change for me.

Also, not everyone has the be TFG playing Eldar. 9 bikes with 3-4 hvy weapons is just fine. Wraithguard without WWP is just fine, sure guns are nasty...but don't go near the buggers with your tanks...blast them. Wraithknights? Just bring them out occasionally. sure, there will be some that spam the crap out of the codex, but they would do that with any codex. This one just happens to have a lot of options to do so, but people should play a few games first to see what builds are really causing problems.

The most upsetting thing for me is lots of D.
Followed closely by the amount of forum topics there are.

The opinions of the mon-keigh weigh less than sunlight.

 Rippy wrote:

Followed closely by the amount of forum topics there are.

Word. Nerf duplicate forum topics.

I find it worrying that seemingly grown-assed adults can get upset at something in a tabletop game.

 monders wrote:
I find it worrying that seemingly grown-assed adults can get upset at something in a tabletop game.

I find it worrying that people can't voice their dissatisfaction of a product without people leaping to 'they're upset/whining etc'. People are paying money for these rules. Quite a lot of money. If they're unhappy about it, they can damn well voice their dissatisfaction.

 gmaleron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'll stop complaining when the BA have a chance against the Eldar. Or the DA for that matter.

Eldar are not invincible and a BA Drop Pod army could do some nasty stuff against a Jetbike list if played correctly. And DA are going to be redone as well so who knows, they may be even cheesier since they are "mighty Space Marines"

BA drop pod can't even beat the BA. Please. The only thing "mighty" about space marines is smashbane and gravstars. BA have neither.

 gmaleron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'll stop complaining when the BA have a chance against the Eldar. Or the DA for that matter.

Eldar are not invincible and a BA Drop Pod army could do some nasty stuff against a Jetbike list if played correctly. And DA are going to be redone as well so who knows, they may be even cheesier since they are "mighty Space Marines"

Every time I hear about cheasy DA I have a warm fuzzy fealing and chukle uncontrollably.

I think overall Eldar codex became stronger? And I don't even know their decurion bonuses.

Even further, the Astartes codices as a whole have EMBARRASSING internal balance. 2/3 the models are unplayable. There is NOTHING mighty about most space marine units. Most are bad jokes.

The fact that Dark Eldar got screwed in comparison. Why do I have to be punished for not playing a poster boy army

 gmaleron wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Another "Lets freak out over Eldar" thread, seriously people need to calm down and stop complaining and overreacting.

Just don't read the bloody Eldar threads if it annoys you so much. Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?

Or people need to stop making them, I think there are over 5 so far? Enough is enough and no its not telling, its people assuming the worst without having ever played against the new book and in my experience its what always happens when an apparently good new book drops, its the end of the world. WAY to much drama.

"Nothing has been proved - wait till the Codex arrives, ignore all the pics of the actuall rules, its all fine, La la I am not looking at the pics, they are not real, not listening"

etc etc

Two YEARS to fix Cheese Serpents -how long to fix this ambomination of a codex?

Well, I think the new Jetbikes will change the meta while the Wraithknight as LoW does not.
Let's see if Wraithguard comes with D cannons.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Another "Lets freak out over Eldar" thread, seriously people need to calm down and stop complaining and overreacting.

Just don't read the bloody Eldar threads if it annoys you so much. Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?

Or people need to stop making them, I think there are over 5 so far? Enough is enough and no its not telling, its people assuming the worst without having ever played against the new book and in my experience its what always happens when an apparently good new book drops, its the end of the world. WAY to much drama.

"Nothing has been proved - wait till the Codex arrives, ignore all the pics of the actuall rules, its all fine, La la I am not looking at the pics, they are not real, not listening"

etc etc

Two YEARS to fix Cheese Serpents -how long to fix this ambomination of a codex?

And the thing is, when stuff that isn't overpowered comes out and a few people think it is, it normally goes something like this...

Forum poster 1: "Wow!! That's so amazing and powerful!"
Forum poster 2: "Nah, it's not because reasons"
Forum poster 1: "Hmm, maybe you're right"

And we move on.

The times when something is GENUINELY overpowered the discussion is more heated, with people explaining why it's overpowered and the apologists with their fingers in their ears resorting to "just wait and see".

The fact is, people have been playing this game for a long time now. So when something comes along that is obvious like Jetbikes being underpriced for their firepower or the WK being underpriced for being a D toting Gargantuan or the excessive D of the Wraithguard, people tend to figure it out even before playing a game.

The last option, and people supporting the dex/gw at this point, all sound a lot like the Ad Mech. "Everything is fine! Nothing is broken!"

 Flame-Rage wrote:
The last option, and people supporting the dex/gw at this point, all sound a lot like the Ad Mech. "Everything is fine! Nothing is broken!"

Is there no poll option for "Codex not out yet, will reserve judgement for when it actually exists"?

I get that it's a fun hot-button conversation topic on the forums right now, but for gods sake the book is'int even out yet.

 Galef wrote:
As an Eldar player since 2008, I was really looking forward to being able to play my Eldar without people complaining. That is NOT gonna happen now.

To be fair, its never happened nor will it ever happen, people have hated Eldar for the entire history of the game. Its nothing really new.

Ive mentioned it a few times in other places but what seems to be happening is GW is actively attacking tournaments. We know as of 2008 they took a 'not for competitive gamers' stance and ran with that. Then allies and 6th happened and it started the decline of integrity and balance, since then tournaments have been creating balances that GW has actively countered.

No allies? Here's a detachment that doesn't count as an ally.
No super heavies? Nope, you don't need permission now.
Still no super heavies? Here's the imperial knight
Don't like double force org? Here's unbound and the ability to take infinite detachments
Source limit? Here's the ability to take all the sources as 1
Want your old special rules? You need to combine these detachments
Percentage troop minimums? Here's troop-less, HQ-less armies.
Trying to take the bare minimum? Nope here is bad unit taxes.
Oh you think D has no place in 40k? Here is an army that has it on infantry.

You tournament gamers still kicking? Here watch this.

They are expending a lot of effort, so much so its getting more difficult to believe that they aren't trying to turn away or convert competitive gamers.

Honestly tournaments will need to make lists of restrictions, percentage caps, and 0 to whatever caps as well as making tournament specific force orgs, and eventually the book to book restrictions. Which GW used to do, until they cranked their release schedule and abandoned the game balance and focused on calling their products "collectibles" to tag the triple cost price tags.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 clamclaw wrote:
Is there no poll option for "Codex not out yet, will reserve judgement for when it actually exists"?

I get that it's a fun hot-button conversation topic on the forums right now, but for gods sake the book is'int even out yet.

All the points are out and we know the details. I tried defending it the other day, and went through the different points and ended up agreeing that its busted. The ability to take multiple knights that can multi target with D weapons then stomp the infantry makes them very very attractive, and for just shy of 300pts its a no brainer option. Which you could just stay "well tar pit then" then you enter the scatbikes to hand the infantry. MSU and target saturation? Well the knight multi targets, there goes blocking them easily. At this point you're at 835pts and you'll handle most people. Or you go wind rider core and take 1-12 knights and it gets really bad.

4 knights and a wind rider core is very real at 1850.

Really the only counter is bunkerpults and centurion star and praying to go first.

The fact that Eldar can have one of their super fast super shooty bikes with better armour for the same points that an Ork nob pays FOR JUST THE BIKE is probably the main issue, but its the bikes for me.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm glad that another "complain about Eldar" thread was created. We don't have enough of them on the forum, yet.

You can never have to many "complain about Eldar" threads..... ever.


To be fair, most of these guys have very valid points, but there are some that have blown this completely out of proportion.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 clamclaw wrote:
Is there no poll option for "Codex not out yet, will reserve judgement for when it actually exists"?

I get that it's a fun hot-button conversation topic on the forums right now, but for gods sake the book is'int even out yet.

All the points are out and we know the details. I tried defending it the other day, and went through the different points and ended up agreeing that its busted. The ability to take multiple knights that can multi target with D weapons then stomp the infantry makes them very very attractive, and for just shy of 300pts its a no brainer option. Which you could just stay "well tar pit then" then you enter the scatbikes to hand the infantry. MSU and target saturation? Well the knight multi targets, there goes blocking them easily. At this point you're at 835pts and you'll handle most people. Or you go wind rider core and take 1-12 knights and it gets really bad.

4 knights and a wind rider core is very real at 1850.

Really the only counter is bunkerpults and centurion star and praying to go first.

You're probably right, and seeing the leaked rules looks broken as all hell. Moving Wraithknights to gargantuans/LoW seemed like a way to limit their saturation, but with the formation options it will probably do little good. It will most likely be a very easy to abuse codex, though I try not to play in a particularly competitive format.

Why is 'EML lost pinning' not an option?

Wraithknights making the Heirodule look like hot garbage for half the points. Well, they already did, but now my poor babies are almost thoroughly obsolent.

 Kain wrote:
Wraithknights making the Heirodule look like hot garbage for half the points. Well, they already did, but now my poor babies are almost thoroughly obsolent.

Yeah. Thinking about how these compare to my recently painted beasty is quite depressing. Could you imagine the response you'd get if you proposed these changes in the proposed rules forum?

I think I'll hold off finishing up my Dark Angels in case Plasma Talons and DW Knights get D weapons...

*takes tentative step in*

I think that GW prices units based not only on their stat line but on the physical size of the model. Large footprint and large profile equate to decreased cost, because it becomes increasingy impossible to hide the thing. This is partly why the Wraithknight is so seemingly undercosted; the same goes for the jetbikes (and Tomb Blades for that matter -- this is why they are barey more expensive than an Immortal).

Bharring wrote:
Why is 'EML lost pinning' not an option?

Shhh, no. You're not meeting the current complaint meta. Stick to the script please.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Wraithknights making the Heirodule look like hot garbage for half the points. Well, they already did, but now my poor babies are almost thoroughly obsolent.

Yeah. Thinking about how these compare to my recently painted beasty is quite depressing. Could you imagine the response you'd get if you proposed these changes in the proposed rules forum?

I think I'll hold off finishing up my Dark Angels in case Plasma Talons and DW Knights get D weapons...

I already saw that the Heirodule was going to suck as a Lord of War when I found that one statistically gets its face beaten in by Lysander in assault.

Now I'm just wondering what's the point of its existence. So many points for either a horrendously overcosted and thoroughly mediocre assault beast, or a platform for S10 guns (that have AP3 and thus can only HP vehicles to death and is more likely to penetrate a land-raider than a Terminator's pauldrons ) that's still hideously overcosted and has abysmal resiliency per point next to the Wraithknight, Dreadknight, and Riptide.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think the new Jetbikes will change the meta while the Wraithknight as LoW does not.
Let's see if Wraithguard comes with D cannons.

This was already confirmed. Stock WG come with D-cannons that are Str D. D-Scythes are Str D but have a special rule that makes them subtract 1 from the Destroyer chart roll, so they can never get the 6+D6 wounds/penetrating hits with no save allowed, but on a 3+, they get D3 wounds/penetrating hits, so they still erase everything without a good invulnerable save. Oh, and D-scythe WG cost the same as stock, and there was no point increase for the D upgrade....which is what aggravates me to no end. WK get a massive upgrade for very little points increase, in fact, they are criminally underpriced no matter how you look at it. WG get a significant upgrade, no points increase at all (but lost the ability to be troops).

Granted, there may be other caveats we just haven't seen yet, such as maybe WG not fitting in a WS (which based on the model, makes perfect sense, after all, terminators can't ride in a rhino), which would reduce their power to more acceptable levels. This codex scares me, but I'm holding out hope that some of the madness was balanced in other ways (although the WK is just busted, not really seeing any way that is not the case).

Hemlocks are really boss. -2 Ld to all enemies within 12" + D + ML 2 and telepathy? Seriously??

Combo that with Death jesters and your chasing people off the board.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Hemlocks are really boss. -2 Ld to all enemies within 12" + D + ML 2 and telepathy? Seriously??

Combo that with Death jesters and your chasing people off the board.

so now it's seer council, bike formation, wraith guard with DE allies for WWP, multiple knights, hemlocks, AND Harlequin formation. Phew, hard to keep up with all the cheese in one force, although I don't usually play 3000pts so no worries there.

bullyboy wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Hemlocks are really boss. -2 Ld to all enemies within 12" + D + ML 2 and telepathy? Seriously??

Combo that with Death jesters and your chasing people off the board.

so now it's seer council, bike formation, wraith guard with DE allies for WWP, multiple knights, hemlocks, AND Harlequin formation. Phew, hard to keep up with all the cheese in one force, although I don't usually play 3000pts so no worries there.

Don't forget the aspect host where the only restriction of the formation is to have an exarch to give all models +1bs or Ws and get reroll Lds.

 Galef wrote:
As an Eldar player since 2008, I was really looking forward to being able to play my Eldar without people complaining. That is NOT gonna happen now.

I wouldn't sweat it to much, people will always complain and blow things out of proportion and its easier to be negative then constructive. Also and I mean no offense to IoM players that have not done this, but it seems that if any Xenos races get a great unit or even a few its IoM players in particular that freak out the most when they can cherry pick literally out of any book they want. Play what you want to play and if they refuse games with you your better off not playing them, its hurting them as well as its one less game they are getting in and depending on their attitude going on about it they could be labeled TFG.

 Kain wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Wraithknights making the Heirodule look like hot garbage for half the points. Well, they already did, but now my poor babies are almost thoroughly obsolent.

Yeah. Thinking about how these compare to my recently painted beasty is quite depressing. Could you imagine the response you'd get if you proposed these changes in the proposed rules forum?

I think I'll hold off finishing up my Dark Angels in case Plasma Talons and DW Knights get D weapons...

I already saw that the Heirodule was going to suck as a Lord of War when I found that one statistically gets its face beaten in by Lysander in assault.

Now I'm just wondering what's the point of its existence. So many points for either a horrendously overcosted and thoroughly mediocre assault beast, or a platform for S10 guns (that have AP3 and thus can only HP vehicles to death and is more likely to penetrate a land-raider than a Terminator's pauldrons ) that's still hideously overcosted and has abysmal resiliency per point next to the Wraithknight, Dreadknight, and Riptide.

The problem with the Heirodule is it's points costs and abilities haven't changed much, if at all, in... what? 3... 4 editions? FW needs to reevaluate the points costs of it's older stuff, especially now that Gargs and SH aren't their babies anymore.

 monders wrote:
I find it worrying that seemingly grown-assed adults can get upset at something in a tabletop game.

Because these grown-assed adults have paid several thousand dollars in many cases to play that game. It brought them enjoyment, and in this particular case it appears that the game they loved is taking a dramatic nosedive into an oblivion that none of them wanted. Most of them feel that 1) they could do a better job and 2) the company's priorities when it comes to gameplay are now so far removed from theirs that they feel betrayed. It's watching something you've invested time and effort into be destroyed.

It's probably worse because up until the necron codex, pretty much everything since Codex: Space Marines was kind of "meh", the power level of the game appeared to be equalizing and there was hope for 40K to be a good, decent game. Sure it wasn't perfect, but lictors were winning tournaments and we got an AdMech army. But as we should all know by now, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

I read through the codex a little while ago (I dont have it, dont have access to it now). The thing that will go under the radar are warlock conclaves at first. BoS, 1-3 gives ML1, 4-7 gives ML2, 7-10 gives ML3. Each warlock generates a warp charge. they also harness charge on a 3+.
Second thing is that farseers can selectively re-roll any dice when making DTW. good luck getting powers off against eldar who can EASILY manage 20+ dice on master levels/warlocks alone.
Everyone is getting nerdrage about scatterlaser jetbikes, when it will be the shuri-cannon ones that cause the real murder.

Plus, the real crown of -dom is the hemlock. 15 points less than a stormraven gets you BS5 flier with psychic pilot 2, who can roll on sanctic, RoB or telepathy. it also has 2 heavy d-scythes, which are S: D ap2 blasts with -1 on D-table. plus this thing counts as a "wraith construct" (the thing that lets you bring a wraithknight)

Me and a buddy made a 1750 list that consists of the following:
---
Windrider host (once per game all suriken get shred)
Jetseer w/ relic that lets you reduce warp charge cost by 1, to minimum of 1
5x jetbike warlocks
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x5 & warlock
Viper with EML {EML comes standard with plasma (S4 AP4 blast), krak, and flakk}
---
Wraithknight w 2x heavy wraithcannon ( S: D AP2, heavy 1)
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock

This came to just shy of 1750. 21+d6 warp charge per turn. 2 single shot D shots, 8 D blasts, with potential for vortex of doom on anything if you want to roll it. Only 1 warlord trait is mediocre, the rest are amazing. Even the vyper is barely a tax. It's a cheap, mobile multi-purpose gun platform, and is fairly cheap and durable skyfire. IIRC it comes stock with a 5++, or it was very cheap to upgrade to it (like a meltabomb or 2).

Was reading through the post on /tg/ about the new book, and appearantly a few games have already been played. a 1750 game VS white scar gravbikers resulted in the marines tabled by end of turn 2. Necron decurion tabled by turn 3 and 4. Pentyrant got absolutely wrecked, losing 3 flyrants turn 1 and the others turn 2. Guy said eldar took some losses in these games, but wraithknights never went down. Welcome to WarEldar40k.

StarHunter25 wrote:
I read through the codex a little while ago (I dont have it, dont have access to it now). The thing that will go under the radar are warlock conclaves at first. BoS, 1-3 gives ML1, 4-7 gives ML2, 7-10 gives ML3. Each warlock generates a warp charge. they also harness charge on a 3+.
Second thing is that farseers can selectively re-roll any dice when making DTW. good luck getting powers off against eldar who can EASILY manage 20+ dice on master levels/warlocks alone.
Everyone is getting nerdrage about scatterlaser jetbikes, when it will be the shuri-cannon ones that cause the real murder.

Plus, the real crown of -dom is the hemlock. 15 points less than a stormraven gets you BS5 flier with psychic pilot 2, who can roll on sanctic, RoB or telepathy. it also has 2 heavy d-scythes, which are S: D ap2 blasts with -1 on D-table. plus this thing counts as a "wraith construct" (the thing that lets you bring a wraithknight)

Me and a buddy made a 1750 list that consists of the following:
---
Windrider host (once per game all suriken get shred)
Jetseer w/ relic that lets you reduce warp charge cost by 1, to minimum of 1
5x jetbike warlocks
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x5 & warlock
Viper with EML {EML comes standard with plasma (S4 AP4 blast), krak, and flakk}
---
Wraithknight w 2x heavy wraithcannon ( S: D AP2, heavy 1)
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock

This came to just shy of 1750. 21+d6 warp charge per turn. 2 single shot D shots, 8 D blasts, with potential for vortex of doom on anything if you want to roll it. Only 1 warlord trait is mediocre, the rest are amazing. Even the vyper is barely a tax. It's a cheap, mobile multi-purpose gun platform, and is fairly cheap and durable skyfire. IIRC it comes stock with a 5++, or it was very cheap to upgrade to it (like a meltabomb or 2).

Was reading through the post on /tg/ about the new book, and appearantly a few games have already been played. a 1750 game VS white scar gravbikers resulted in the marines tabled by end of turn 2. Necron decurion tabled by turn 3 and 4. Pentyrant got absolutely wrecked, losing 3 flyrants turn 1 and the others turn 2. Guy said eldar took some losses in these games, but wraithknights never went down. Welcome to WarEldar40k.

Well at least games against the Eldar will be extremely quick if this is any indication.

StarHunter25 wrote:

Me and a buddy made a 1750 list that consists of the following:
---
Windrider host (once per game all suriken get shred)
Jetseer w/ relic that lets you reduce warp charge cost by 1, to minimum of 1
5x jetbike warlocks
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x5 & warlock
Viper with EML {EML comes standard with plasma (S4 AP4 blast), krak, and flakk}
---
Wraithknight w 2x heavy wraithcannon ( S: D AP2, heavy 1)
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock

Crap. Its no where close to 1750. Its over 2k. Even with just the rumoured points - the knight is 295, the 4 hemlocks are 740. The 17 bikes are 459 and the 8 warlocks are 400. The farseer (by old points) will be 150ish and another 50 odd for the viper. Just shy of 2100 points.

This is the sort of fear mongering and scare tactics we can do without thanks.

StarHunter25 wrote:
Was reading through the post on /tg/ about the new book, and appearantly a few games have already been played. a 1750 game VS white scar gravbikers resulted in the marines tabled by end of turn 2. Necron decurion tabled by turn 3 and 4. Pentyrant got absolutely wrecked, losing 3 flyrants turn 1 and the others turn 2. Guy said eldar took some losses in these games, but wraithknights never went down. Welcome to WarEldar40k.

Again - please. White scar grav bikers wreck a Wk hard. The only addition to survivability for the WK is FNP. It takes just 21 grav gun shots - all of 7 grav guns - to kill it dead. A proper WS biker list will easily have 12-20 of them. They are also fully capable of handling the scatter bikes - so much so that the WK is actually low on the threat list. The Decurion literally has a situation where EVERY gauss weapon in the list can hurt the WK and things like wraiths and doom scythes hurt it bad too. How did the nids loose 3 flyrants turn 1?!?!

This is all anecdotal "evidence" without any clarity in the actual lists (hard since the dex is still not officially out) and not backed up with any real facts - it just reads as "OMG ELDARZ ARE OP" nonsense again.

I agree the book has some serious issues and it hurts to admit that given my 20+ years playing them but all this supposed WARELDAR40K nonsense needs to stop until we have some actual hard data and experience.

Nothing bothers me at all.

I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

That they weren't removed from the game. Clearly GDumb couldn't balance even an empty scale

Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

 Massaen wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:

Me and a buddy made a 1750 list that consists of the following:
---
Windrider host (once per game all suriken get shred)
Jetseer w/ relic that lets you reduce warp charge cost by 1, to minimum of 1
5x jetbike warlocks
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x6 & warlock
windriders w/ suriken cannon x5 & warlock
Viper with EML {EML comes standard with plasma (S4 AP4 blast), krak, and flakk}
---
Wraithknight w 2x heavy wraithcannon ( S: D AP2, heavy 1)
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock
Hemlock

Crap. Its no where close to 1750. Its over 2k. Even with just the rumoured points - the knight is 295, the 4 hemlocks are 740. The 17 bikes are 459 and the 8 warlocks are 400. The farseer (by old points) will be 150ish and another 50 odd for the viper. Just shy of 2100 points.

This is the sort of fear mongering and scare tactics we can do without thanks.

StarHunter25 wrote:
Was reading through the post on /tg/ about the new book, and appearantly a few games have already been played. a 1750 game VS white scar gravbikers resulted in the marines tabled by end of turn 2. Necron decurion tabled by turn 3 and 4. Pentyrant got absolutely wrecked, losing 3 flyrants turn 1 and the others turn 2. Guy said eldar took some losses in these games, but wraithknights never went down. Welcome to WarEldar40k.

Again - please. White scar grav bikers wreck a Wk hard. The only addition to survivability for the WK is FNP. It takes just 21 grav gun shots - all of 7 grav guns - to kill it dead. A proper WS biker list will easily have 12-20 of them. They are also fully capable of handling the scatter bikes - so much so that the WK is actually low on the threat list. The Decurion literally has a situation where EVERY gauss weapon in the list can hurt the WK and things like wraiths and doom scythes hurt it bad too. How did the nids loose 3 flyrants turn 1?!?!

This is all anecdotal "evidence" without any clarity in the actual lists (hard since the dex is still not officially out) and not backed up with any real facts - it just reads as "OMG ELDARZ ARE OP" nonsense again.

I agree the book has some serious issues and it hurts to admit that given my 20+ years playing them but all this supposed WARELDAR40K nonsense needs to stop until we have some actual hard data and experience.

While the list skewed and over points, his fear mongering is a bit justified.

The other way is just as bad:

Again - please. White scar grav bikers wreck a Wk hard.

I would agree with this, except you are talking about is 7 grave guns... which would take a minimum of 4 bike squads:
3 models +2 Grav Guns comes in a little under 100 points. Four such squads would be a little under 400 points... which is more than a WK costs. I would expect 400 points worth of models to be able to kill 300 points of models. However, what is the rest of your army doing? What is the rest of the Eldar army doing? Because I can't see an Eldar playing willingly offering up his WK for you to kill without some form of retaliation back. Not sure how Space Marine bikes can compete with Eldar Jetbikes- they are faster, more maneuverable, will have more shots... if we go with the 3 model SM Bike squad noted above, you will have one twin linked bolter and two Grav Guns. For that many points, I can field 4 Eldar Jetbikes with all scatterlasers. That's 16 shots at 36" compared to 6 Gravguns and 1 Bolter shot at 24". I'm pretty sure the Eldar will have 1-2 rounds of shooting on you unless you just turboboost right across the board turn 1 and fore go shooting for a turn, trusting in your armor and jink saves.

It would be an interesting game! There are two players at my FLGS that run all bikes+Imperial Knight, and two more that run all Thunderwolves. I'm really looking forward to playing them with the new Eldar codex. It'll be a relatively simple list- 30 Jet Bikes, a WK, couple Wave Serpents with Wraith Guard, and a Farseer on Jetbike. First turn, I'll be shooting 120 S6 weapons at him... 90+ will hit, and vs. bikes, that's 60 wounds he'll have to save... meaning I should take out 20 bikes on the first turn of the game. Average rolling of course. With my dice, it'll be closer to 10. LOL

Yeah, I want to be 'That Guy' because I'm tired of those stupid lists just wrecking everyone at my club.

the list I put together was using points from the codex. entire thing was leaked on /tg/. the only thing you may have mis-enterpereted is that the windrider squads are technically 5 + warlock, 5+warlock, 4+warlock. ML3 farseer on bike with the relic is 130. Warlocks in conclave are 50 each. hemlock 185, vyper 75 with EML.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

Jetbikes spam alone decimates anything you can build with the new dex. Not to mention anything dstr at all. Obviously you were not getting rofl stomped because someone was using the old eldar dex and not the upcoming one.

I'm just hoping that the rumored full AdMech Dex will give us some tools to defend ourselves because soon Eldar will have to massively pull punches to have a non steamroller game with any halfway competent person behind them.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

so you won then................

The biggest problem will most certainly be the formation bonus, I bet. Guaranteed 6" running will mean the best players will dance on the boundaries of threat ranges, ensuring minimal to no retaliation.

The first level pass will show the Wraithknight, the bikes, the Wraithguard. Next will come the psykers, flyers, and aspect warriors. Finally, that 6" run always.

Eldar are the most powerful book as they can now effectively eliminate dice rolls from the game with superior spells, long range mobile gun platforms, D weapons, and losing almost all random from movement.

Hands down the jet bike change followed by the wraithknight buffs and the scythe guard buffs. The jetbikes are so absolutely absurd in terms of fire power that they invalidate everything else in the book aside from units that can counter av13-14 which they cannot deal with. This is where the wraithknight, and if dark eldar allies are added, the scythe guard come in since they perfectly complement the jetbikes to produce an army that is weak against nothing in the game and which only can face a potential challenge from decurion necrons because of the durability decurion provides.

Each wave serpent shooting its shield averaged 4.5 ignore cover twin linked pinning shots and 4 s6 shots. For the price of a serpent with usual upgrades you get around 5 bikes. That puts out 20 s6 shots. Yes the bikes are easier to kill than serpent but they have so much shooting that you can take half a unit of 10 off the table and still face more return fire than your own non-eldar army is probably bringing for the price of all 10 bikes. They are also ld8 which will pass the majority of their LD tests from taking casualties so running them off the board that way is not reliable at all.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

so you won then................

I fluked it and it ended turn5 and had 3 models left. You guys are blowing this out of proportion. Just adapt, buy a fething drop pod. Rad carbines ate my uber D knight.

Plus you're getting the cult mechanicus and imp knight dexes in a few weeks, clear the sand out of your circuits.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just bought some Skitarii and everything in this dex just wrecks their face. That bugs me and tells me GW knew exactly what they were doing releasing Skitarii first then immediately invalidating that entire Dex.

The only saving grace in my return to 40k is I'm the Craftworld Eldar guy in our group and I just can't bring myself to use this Atom Bomb of a codex.

How so? The skitarii actually were beating the crap out of me yesterday using the new eldar book, wraithknight was dead turn 3 and I barely won with 1 VP because I cleared off an objective (with 2 of his other units near by)

so you won then................

I fluked it and it ended turn5 and had 3 models left. You guys are blowing this out of proportion. Just adapt, buy a fething drop pod.its.

Ahh the old - LTP - often the refuge of a player with a cheese army..........................

After hearing rumours about the Eldar there is one change that, while not game-breaking, really irritates me.

Howling Banshees (and Banshee Masks) prevent an opponent from firing Overwatch.

Close Combat units, especially those with poor armour saves would love to avoid a second round of fire before they get stuck into combat. The fact that Eldar get access to a unit that ignore Overwatch, while still having what is looking to be a strong Codex, just irritates me. I wanna use ma Genestealers..

 Frozocrone wrote:
After hearing rumours about the Eldar there is one change that, while not game-breaking, really irritates me.

Howling Banshees (and Banshee Masks) prevent an opponent from firing Overwatch.

Close Combat units, especially those with poor armour saves would love to avoid a second round of fire before they get stuck into combat. The fact that Eldar get access to a unit that ignore Overwatch, while still having what is looking to be a strong Codex, just irritates me. I wanna use ma Genestealers..

YOU'LL SHOOT WITH YOUR TYRANIDS AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!/GW

I'm going to cry in the corner now.

The louder the cries of adapt the stronger the more near broken a codex becomes.

"Chaos Legions!!"

"WAAAAAAAAAGGHHHHH!"

"And don't forget the SISTERS!!!!"

 Kain wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
After hearing rumours about the Eldar there is one change that, while not game-breaking, really irritates me.

Howling Banshees (and Banshee Masks) prevent an opponent from firing Overwatch.

Close Combat units, especially those with poor armour saves would love to avoid a second round of fire before they get stuck into combat. The fact that Eldar get access to a unit that ignore Overwatch, while still having what is looking to be a strong Codex, just irritates me. I wanna use ma Genestealers..

YOU'LL SHOOT WITH YOUR TYRANIDS AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!/GW

I'm going to cry in the corner now.

Tbf I do love a Dakkafex for breakfast.

 Frozocrone wrote:
After hearing rumours about the Eldar there is one change that, while not game-breaking, really irritates me.

Howling Banshees (and Banshee Masks) prevent an opponent from firing Overwatch.

Close Combat units, especially those with poor armour saves would love to avoid a second round of fire before they get stuck into combat. The fact that Eldar get access to a unit that ignore Overwatch, while still having what is looking to be a strong Codex, just irritates me. I wanna use ma Genestealers..

I'm kind of in the same boat, aspect warriors getting a bunch of upgrades (some inherent, some via formations) really annoys me too:
Banshees get longer effective charge range and avoid overwatch
Fire Dragons get +3 on the damage chart
Warp Spiders roll against initiative
Guardians overwatch at BS2

All on top of battle focus, fleet, and bladestorm. Seriously, these are changes which other armies didn't get, and Eldar suddenly get them for free? I personally think that some of the ASPECTS are undercosted now.