Pretty much all the rumours are true, some things were neglected from mention like swooping hawks moving 18" now and mind shock pods being -2Ld to all enemy units within 12"

A lot of the book is copy pasted.

But away ask away if you already haven't seen it.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Pretty much all the rumours are true, some things were neglected from mention like swooping hawks moving 18" now and mind shock pods being -2Ld to all enemy units within 12"

A lot of the book is copy pasted.

But away ask away if you already haven't seen it.

Curious about the D weapons as Ive been hearing they are -1 S on the Scythes and only count towards instant kills being S4 overall?

scythes and heavy sycthes have the distort scythe rule which is -1 on the D table and are assumed to be s4 for instant death.

Not that it matters because on a 3+ they strip D3 wounds/hull point for each hit, just no instant gibbing imperial knights on a 6.

 Ravenous D wrote:
scythes and heavy sycthes have the distort scythe rule which is -1 on the D table and are assumed to be s4 for instant death.

Not that it matters because on a 3+ they strip D3 wounds for each wound.

They were nasty before being AP2 so really at least you get armor saves against it or do they still have the AP2?

So is there a formation for multiple wraith knights?

Also, for the jetbikes, what psy powers does the warlock leader really get to use?

Is there a restriction for wraithguard and transports?

Do the PL's have invulnerability saves, Did the avatar get anything to compensate for the loss of exarch powers?

Oh and how many extra 'meltabombs' in cost are exarchs, and are the powers base or bought?

 sudojoe wrote:
So is there a formation for multiple wraith knights?

Also, for the jetbikes, what psy powers does the warlock leader really get to use?

Is there a restriction for wraithguard and transports?

There is no formation of wraith knights, they are an aux choice after you take a core of either the wind rider host (360pts min) or guardian or storm host.

Warlocks can use runes of battle or santic daemonology

And there is none, wraithguard are just bulky.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 sudojoe wrote:
So is there a formation for multiple wraith knights?

Also, for the jetbikes, what psy powers does the warlock leader really get to use?

Is there a restriction for wraithguard and transports?

There is no formation of wraith knights, they are an aux choice after you take a core of either the wind rider host (360pts min) or guardian or storm host.

Warlocks can use runes of battle or santic daemonology

And there is none, wraithguard are just bulky.

Isn't there the dreamwalker squad?

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Do the PL's have invulnerability saves, Did the avatar get anything to compensate for the loss of exarch powers?

Oh and how many extra 'meltabombs' in cost are exarchs, and are the powers base or bought?

Only Asurman has the invul, they are pretty much copy pasted with the new aspect special rules. Avatar got +2S to his sword and gives eldar within 12" rage, fearless and furious charge

And which base powers? The avatar has no upgrads.

What special rules do Howling Banshees have?

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

Isn't there the dreamwalker squad?

Negative, that's an apoc formation and is not in this book

 Ravenous D wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Do the PL's have invulnerability saves, Did the avatar get anything to compensate for the loss of exarch powers?

Oh and how many extra 'meltabombs' in cost are exarchs, and are the powers base or bought?

Only Asurman has the invul, they are pretty much copy pasted with the new aspect special rules. Avatar got +2S to his sword and gives eldar within 12" rage, fearless and furious charge

And which base powers? The avatar has no upgrads.

I meant the exarch powers, Dang was hoping for Invulns, oh well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

Isn't there the dreamwalker squad?

Negative, that's an apoc formation and is not in this book

I thought Games workshop blurred the lines of what a apoc game is.
Nvm about whether you can use it though, it's from 6th iyanden

 BlaxicanX wrote:
What special rules do Howling Banshees have?

+3" to runs and assaults, no overwatch, the exarch knocks -2Ld off and cause fear.

Also any unit that contains at least 1 banshee mask cannot have overwatch used on them. So autarch + whatever.

does the avatar still have a 5++ ?

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

I meant the exarch powers, Dang was hoping for Invulns, oh well.

Exarch powers are pretty much gone, they just come standard to each aspect, they have a base ability and the exarch ability, neither that you pay for.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RED EYE JEDI wrote:
does the avatar still have a 5++ ?

Yup, he is a Daemon

 Ravenous D wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
What special rules do Howling Banshees have?

+3" to runs and assaults, no overwatch, the exarch knocks -2Ld off and cause fear.

Also any unit that contains at least 1 banshee mask cannot have overwatch used on them. So autarch + whatever.

Wow...

That sound you hear is Tau players crying their eyes out.

Thanks, RD.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

I meant the exarch powers, Dang was hoping for Invulns, oh well.

Exarch powers are pretty much gone, they just come standard to each aspect, they have a base ability and the exarch ability, neither that you pay for.

That's what I was hoping for, excellent! how many extra melta bombs could you of gotten from buying an exarch from last edition compared to this one.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
What special rules do Howling Banshees have?

+3" to runs and assaults, no overwatch, the exarch knocks -2Ld off and cause fear.

Also any unit that contains at least 1 banshee mask cannot have overwatch used on them. So autarch + whatever.

Wow...

That sound you hear is Tau players crying their eyes out.

Thanks, RD.

Bwahahahahaha....

Glorious!

Hey, do they still have fear/hatred Slannesh?

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

I meant the exarch powers, Dang was hoping for Invulns, oh well.

Exarch powers are pretty much gone, they just come standard to each aspect, they have a base ability and the exarch ability, neither that you pay for.

That's what I was hoping for, excellent! how many extra melta bombs could you of gotten from buying an exarch from last edition compared to this one.

Same as before


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
Hey, do they still have fear/hatred Slannesh?

They do, exactly the same as before, copy pasted era of GW

Are shoulder weapons on the WK the same amount of points?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
What special rules do Howling Banshees have?

+3" to runs and assaults, no overwatch, the exarch knocks -2Ld off and cause fear.

Also any unit that contains at least 1 banshee mask cannot have overwatch used on them. So autarch + whatever.

Wow...

That sound you hear is Tau players crying their eyes out.

Thanks, RD.

Also like to point out, Autarch with wings moves 18", so throw on a banshee mask, move 18" assault with fleet rerolls, that's pretty much auto 25" charges and no overwatch with a unit of haywire grenades. Not the best, but whatever.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

I meant the exarch powers, Dang was hoping for Invulns, oh well.

Exarch powers are pretty much gone, they just come standard to each aspect, they have a base ability and the exarch ability, neither that you pay for.

That's what I was hoping for, excellent! how many extra melta bombs could you of gotten from buying an exarch from last edition compared to this one.

Same as before

That's quite good for the extra wound and free exarch power!

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Are shoulder weapons on the WK the same amount of points?

Scatter laser is 5pts cheaper, the shuriken is the same cost as the scatter laser, and the starcannons are 5pts more than the scatter laser. So find the old cost for scatter and apply that info.

Has Illic Nightspear changed at all? Is his weapon now Str D? Do Rangers have the ability to become Pathfinders or any upgrades at all?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has Illic Nightspear changed at all? Is his weapon now Str D? Do Rangers have the ability to become Pathfinders or any upgrades at all?

 Ravenous D wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
What special rules do Howling Banshees have?

+3" to runs and assaults, no overwatch, the exarch knocks -2Ld off and cause fear.

Also any unit that contains at least 1 banshee mask cannot have overwatch used on them. So autarch + whatever.

Wow...

That sound you hear is Tau players crying their eyes out.

Thanks, RD.

Also like to point out, Autarch with wings moves 18", so throw on a banshee mask, move 18" assault with fleet rerolls, that's pretty much auto 25" charges and no overwatch with a unit of haywire grenades. Not the best, but whatever.

That is quite good indeed, so if they deploy at the front of their deployment zone thats a first turn charge! Can he get any decent melee like a scorps claw?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Are shoulder weapons on the WK the same amount of points?

Scatter laser is 5pts cheaper, the shuriken is the same cost as the scatter laser, and the starcannons are 5pts more than the scatter laser. So find the old cost for scatter and apply that info.

Thanks

Pretty much has the same CC ability as before, its not the greatest but its an option, like mixing him with harlequins so they don't get chewed up.

Do D scythes have ap2 still?

 Ravenous D wrote:
Pretty much has the same CC ability as before, its not the greatest but its an option, like mixing him with harlequins so they don't get chewed up.

I was trying to get him to be a decent charging unit with the wings, but it's as feared.

 gmaleron wrote:
Do D scythes have ap2 still?

Sure do, all the Distort weapons do.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Do D scythes have ap2 still?

Sure do, all the Distort weapons do.

Ouch, well good news is that they already were nasty and people tried to avoid them so basically play against them like you always do and you should be okay, they are still only a template when it comes to range.

How is the rest of the book, fluff and such... anything new or interesting? Anything new in the unit descriptions?

What is the status of serpent shields and holo fields?

So, question not related to cheese, does it seem like a codex you could roll out for some fun games with your friends without completely stomping them or being TFG?

 gmaleron wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Do D scythes have ap2 still?

Sure do, all the Distort weapons do.

Ouch, well good news is that they already were nasty and people tried to avoid them so basically play against them like you always do and you should be okay, they are still only a template when it comes to range.

That's the thing a lot of people aren't understanding, I ran an all wraith army for entirety of the last book and it mauls whatever it gets close to, its just gone from "most likely dead" to "Your ancestors are on fire" They will just get punked by single models sucking up overwatch and getting thrown around in combat, we already have guys rolling out against the wraith knights and he is pretty much dying the same. Eldar just hit harder long range against tanks and MCs. Pretty much they stopped being bad at anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
So, question not related to cheese, does it seem like a codex you could roll out for some fun games with your friends without completely stomping them or being TFG?

As long as you avoid the Craftworld warhost abuse and formation abuse the book is basically the same. Just focus fire on the nights, serpents aren't a big deal anymore. Its primary the formations that are the big cheese.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GearheadXII wrote:
How is the rest of the book, fluff and such... anything new or interesting? Anything new in the unit descriptions?

What is the status of serpent shields and holo fields?

You can mix serpent shield with holo fields, seems wasteful to me but oh well.

And no fluff yet I just got the rules side of things.

Can one still take multiple farseers and 7 warlocks if not how has a seerstar changed?

I have not heard anything about rangers, are they still troops? What if anything changed with them? How much do they cost?

Can you still make pathfinders, or do you need to take that ranger HQ guy still?

 Swabby wrote:
I have not heard anything about rangers, are they still troops? What if anything changed with them? How much do they cost?

Can you still make pathfinders, or do you need to take that ranger HQ guy still?

Rangers have shrouded, and are the exact same as before. Illic is there, his weapon works like it used to, it is NOT D. and his old bonuses only work on rangers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ninety0ne wrote:
Can one still take multiple farseers and 7 warlocks if not how has a seerstar changed?

There is a formation called the seer council where its 2 farseers and a warlock conclave (1-10 warlocks who are brotherhood of psykers) they can be on bikes. They cast powers on 3+ and can take bikes, this will probably be a thing that goes under the radar while everyone rages over D.

Brotherhood of psykers means that they cast and generate powers as a unit. I can live with that instead of getting all those powers per model.

Does the serpent shield lose defense if it fires?

 Leth wrote:
Brotherhood of psykers means that they cast and generate powers as a unit. I can live with that instead of getting all those powers per model.

Does the serpent shield lose defense if it fires?

A unit of 1 to 3 is ML1, 4-6 ML2, 7+ ML3

And the second the shield is used as a gun its lost for the rest of the game for the defensive side as well.

Are warlocks still a codex entry outside the formation?

Rangers with shrouded... *breathing intensifies*

Already answered sorry

ninety0ne wrote:
Are warlocks still a codex entry outside the formation?

There is the conclave is a standard dex thing, the seer council is a formation.

So 7 locks and 4 farseers is doable in a CAD+formation?

ninety0ne wrote:
and inside the detachment (1-10) do they generate ML's dofferently?

You mean the council? Its just a conclave and 2 farseers, you must take at least 5 warlocks in the conclave as per the restrictions on the council formation. They are just brotherhood of psykers, and work like Horrors, lose models and you can lose Master levels.

And thx for doing this!

ninety0ne wrote:
So 7 locks and 4 farseers is doable in a CAD+formation?

That's correct, 2 farseers from the CAD, and 2 more from the seer council formation.

How does Ghost helm work now?

ninety0ne wrote:
And thx for doing this!

No worries, damn kids have been taking my job doing this last bunch of releases, had to get ahead of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
How does Ghost helm work now?

If you take a wound from perils you use a warp charge and shrug the wound. You still take the effects. Its still awesome.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
What special rules do Howling Banshees have?

+3" to runs and assaults, no overwatch, the exarch knocks -2Ld off and cause fear.

Also any unit that contains at least 1 banshee mask cannot have overwatch used on them. So autarch + whatever.

Wow...

That sound you hear is Tau players crying their eyes out.

Thanks, RD.

I have a strong feeling that based on previous leaks tau will be crying their eyes out for other reasons already.

Is the shard of Anaris still the same?

ninety0ne wrote:
Is the shard of Anaris still the same?

Yup, they added a rending pistol and dropped out the mantle of the laughing god.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a list

Wind rider host
Farseer on bike
Warlock on bike
Vyper
3 units of 3 jetbikes

That's 358pts.

Now add 5 wraithknights

total: 1833pts, Good luck with killing that.

Any of the Iyanden murderswords make it over?

Are there any mitigating rules for the jetbikes or distort weapons, e.g. something like gets hot. Or is it just 10 jet bikes, they all get scatter lasers, and the opponent has to deal?

ninety0ne wrote:
Any of the Iyanden murderswords make it over?

Negative, but you can still use the Iyanden book, but all it does is give you more relics and the shadow council, doesn't unlock wraithguard as troops.

Funny enough any standard cent star would demolish that list. Shoot, someone running double cents would have no problem with that.

Depending on stomps could probably do the same with my current list.

But that is the nature of extreme lists I suppose.

What's the cost of wraithguard now?

cm32 wrote:
Are there any mitigating rules for the jetbikes or distort weapons, e.g. something like gets hot. Or is it just 10 jet bikes, they all get scatter lasers, and the opponent has to deal?

Nothing. Your opponent just has to deal with the scatbikes. The D isn't bad because its harder to use wraithguard, I own a wraithguard army and Im having trouble getting everything in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Great White wrote:
What's the cost of wraithguard now?

Blades are cheaper by 2pts, Guard are exactly the same, Dscythes are still +10pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Funny enough any standard cent star would demolish that list. Shoot, someone running double cents would have no problem with that.

Depending on stomps could probably do the same with my current list.

But that is the nature of extreme lists I suppose.

Pretty much, and depends on how the star is, the knights get free sun cannons, and those dent cents in.

Do swooping hawks and bahorrath have hit and run still?

Paddlepop Lion wrote:
Do swooping hawks and bahorrath have hit and run still?

Bart has hit and run, hawks don't, but they kept sky leap and move 18" as well as herald of victory and attacking flyers.

How do Shining Spear lances work? Only on the charge still?

Do Shining Spears have any access to Hit and Run?

 Saber wrote:
How do Shining Spear lances work? Only on the charge still?

Do Shining Spears have any access to Hit and Run?

Still on the charge, exact the same, no hit and run, they have a 4+ cover save if they move and the exarch rerolls against MCs and tanks

Swooping Hawks now have to buy the Exarch to get Herald of Victory, but all Exarchs are 2W now and cost the same 10pts to upgrade and pay no additional cost for the extra rule that they have.

Shining spears are better and worse. They still have Skilled rider and outflank, but the Exarch DOES NOT have access to Hit & Run. However, they come with a 4+ cover if they moved and the Laser Lance is ALWAYS AP3. The str bonus is only gained on the charge, though

Here's another list that is a little nicer (not by much)

Wind rider host
Farseer - 115pts
- jetbike

Warlock conclave - 50pts
- 1 warlock on jetbike

2x 5 jetbikes - 135pts (270pts)
- 5 scatter lasers

5 jetbikes - 125pts
- 4 scatter lasers

Vyper - 40pts

Dire Avenger Shrine:
3x 10 Dire avengers - 140pts (420pts)
- Exarch

3 Wave serpents - 115pts (345pts)
- twin linked scatter laser

Wraith Construct
Wraith Knight - 295pts

Wraith Construct
Hemlock - 185pts

Total: 1845pts

First: thank you very much for doing this!!

Is there any way to take Wraithguard in a Warhost without taking the auxiliary that requires 3 Guard units and 1 Wraithlord?

 Talys wrote:
First: thank you very much for doing this!!

Is there any way to take Wraithguard in a Warhost without taking the auxiliary that requires 3 Guard units and 1 Wraithlord?

You can go Cad + formation that's about it. Im having a hard time getting wraithguard into the list for an upcoming tournament that uses comp.

The wraithhost is the only way if you take the warhost detachment.

EDIT: You are welcome!

 Talys wrote:
First: thank you very much for doing this!!

Is there any way to take Wraithguard in a Warhost without taking the auxiliary that requires 3 Guard units and 1 Wraithlord?

I don't have the book yet, but I have seen it. The answer is No. This is actually great for the game (formations, I mean). It forces players to either pay for tax units (Vyper) or spend more on the units they want (3x WG units, 3x Crimson Hunters, etc.) This will be the balancing factor for Eldar, Necrons and any other codex that has or will have the "detachment of formations & auxiliaries"

 Galef wrote:

 Talys wrote:
First: thank you very much for doing this!!

Is there any way to take Wraithguard in a Warhost without taking the auxiliary that requires 3 Guard units and 1 Wraithlord?

I don't have the book yet, but I have seen it. The answer is No. This is actually great for the game (formations, I mean). It forces players to either pay for tax units (Vyper) or spend more on the units they want (3x WG units, 3x Crimson Hunters, etc.) This will be the balancing factor for Eldar, Necrons and any other codex that has or will have the "detachment of formations & auxiliaries"

This only matters if they want the Warhost benefits. If you're not running units that get a major boost out of "Matchless Agiility" (bonus for Run Moves), then you can just take individual formations or a CAD or any combination of them.

Thank you for doing this. Everything important has been answered. It would appears that the rumors are true. If the next books are not somewhat comparable, the exodus will be real. Oh the rage.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Talys wrote:
First: thank you very much for doing this!!

Is there any way to take Wraithguard in a Warhost without taking the auxiliary that requires 3 Guard units and 1 Wraithlord?

I don't have the book yet, but I have seen it. The answer is No. This is actually great for the game (formations, I mean). It forces players to either pay for tax units (Vyper) or spend more on the units they want (3x WG units, 3x Crimson Hunters, etc.) This will be the balancing factor for Eldar, Necrons and any other codex that has or will have the "detachment of formations & auxiliaries"

This only matters if they want the Warhost benefits. If you're not running units that get a major boost out of "Matchless Agiility" (bonus for Run Moves), then you can just take individual formations or a CAD or any combination of them.

Matchless agility + Dscythes + Dark Eldar WWP = "You might as well burn down your own house and save us the time"

Ravenous D wrote:

 Talys wrote:
First: thank you very much for doing this!!

Is there any way to take Wraithguard in a Warhost without taking the auxiliary that requires 3 Guard units and 1 Wraithlord?

You can go Cad + formation that's about it. Im having a hard time getting wraithguard into the list for an upcoming tournament that uses comp.

The wraithhost is the only way if you take the warhost detachment.

EDIT: You are welcome!

Thanks!

Galef wrote:

 Talys wrote:
First: thank you very much for doing this!!

Is there any way to take Wraithguard in a Warhost without taking the auxiliary that requires 3 Guard units and 1 Wraithlord?

I don't have the book yet, but I have seen it. The answer is No. This is actually great for the game (formations, I mean). It forces players to either pay for tax units (Vyper) or spend more on the units they want (3x WG units, 3x Crimson Hunters, etc.) This will be the balancing factor for Eldar, Necrons and any other codex that has or will have the "detachment of formations & auxiliaries"

I don't disagree at all. I like this, especially in the context of max 2 detachments.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Talys wrote:
First: thank you very much for doing this!!

Is there any way to take Wraithguard in a Warhost without taking the auxiliary that requires 3 Guard units and 1 Wraithlord?

I don't have the book yet, but I have seen it. The answer is No. This is actually great for the game (formations, I mean). It forces players to either pay for tax units (Vyper) or spend more on the units they want (3x WG units, 3x Crimson Hunters, etc.) This will be the balancing factor for Eldar, Necrons and any other codex that has or will have the "detachment of formations & auxiliaries"

This only matters if they want the Warhost benefits. If you're not running units that get a major boost out of "Matchless Agiility" (bonus for Run Moves), then you can just take individual formations or a CAD or any combination of them.

Matchless agility + Dscythes + Dark Eldar WWP = "You might as well burn down your own house and save us the time"

That's could certainly be absolutely nasty

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Saber wrote:
How do Shining Spear lances work? Only on the charge still?

Do Shining Spears have any access to Hit and Run?

Still on the charge, exact the same, no hit and run, they have a 4+ cover save if they move and the exarch rerolls against MCs and tanks

Well, at least they had the good sense to make Shining Spears worse...

Or hemlocks new mind shock pods with death jesters near armour of misery and mask of secrets - 8Ld.

Do cannons have the -1 to the d table like the scythes?

Do hawks keep haywire grenades as standard? Is there anything limiting their ability to charge after moving 18?

 Leth wrote:
Do hawks keep haywire grenades as standard? Is there anything limiting their ability to charge after moving 18?

Yes and No respectively.

What can the Hawks do if anything after doing their Haywire a flyer trick?

What are the rules for Dark Reapers I've seen the image but whats the wording cause the image I got was in spanish.

Is it all FLiers, Flying Monstrous Creatures and Flyers or just Vehicle Flyers that they reroll.

Hollismason wrote:
What are the rules for Dark Reapers I've seen the image but whats the wording cause the image I got was in spanish.

Is it all FLiers, Flying Monstrous Creatures and Flyers or just Vehicle Flyers that they reroll.

Anything that Zoomed, Swooped, Turboboosted, or moved Flat Out.

Hollismason wrote:
What are the rules for Dark Reapers I've seen the image but whats the wording cause the image I got was in spanish.

Is it all FLiers, Flying Monstrous Creatures and Flyers or just Vehicle Flyers that they reroll.

The english image I have reads:

A model with this special rule re-rolls failed to hit rolls when fire at a unit that Zoomed (fliers), Swooped (FMC), Turbo-boosted (bikes/jetbikes), or moved Flat Out (Vehicles). Also no jink VS them. 5 meltabombs each. exarch is 2 more, and fires an extra shot. Entire unit can take flakk missiles for the cost of a chainaxe each

 Ravenous D wrote:
There is a formation called the seer council where its 2 farseers and a warlock conclave (1-10 warlocks who are brotherhood of psykers) they can be on bikes. They cast powers on 3+ and can take bikes, this will probably be a thing that goes under the radar while everyone rages over D.

This x 1000. Virtually no nerf to seer council via mastery system since you can CHOOSE which power to loose (Guess what, it'll never be +1 armor or shrouded), and you only ever need to cast 2 powers anyway. In addition, you get a spare Farseer from which ever core formation you choose. So 3 Farseers + 7 Warlocks -> 16 WC to start. Oh, yea, throw in Barrhoth for HnR as well as extra movement for charges. Comes in at ~870. For referance sake, 6ed 8 warlock council + baron was 805. So for almost exactly the cost of switching your 8th warlock to a Farseer, you get more movement, more Rolls for Invis/Fortune (yes....both), and an EW tank character who doesn't slow the unit down at all. And, oh yea, they cast on 3+. And the Farseers can re-roll powers.

Just wanted to preview the next GT winner for ya.

 Galef wrote:
and the Laser Lance is ALWAYS AP3. The str bonus is only gained on the charge, though

[rough rider crying intensifies]


Dire Avengers lost unitwide 5++ inv., am I correct?

Has Prince Yriel changed?

What about War Walkers, Falcon and the Fire Prism?

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Galef wrote:
and the Laser Lance is ALWAYS AP3. The str bonus is only gained on the charge, though

[rough rider crying intensifies]


Dire Avengers lost unitwide 5++ inv., am I correct?

The Exarch can still provide that to the squad.

Has Prince Yriel changed?

He's identical.

What about War Walkers, Falcon and the Fire Prism?

Yes, except Scatterlasers are now a free swap and EML's simply automatically come with flakk missiles.

Falcons and Fire Prisms are identical, Night Spinners are 15pts cheaper.

How has the base unit pricing in the following aspects changed:
- howling banshees
- striking scorpions
- fire dragons
- warp spiders
- dire avengers
- dark reapers (BTW are these started in squads of 3 or 5?)
- jain zar

Thanks for that!

....That slipped under the rumour radar.
So a warwalker squad with eldar missile launchers can do double duty as a hydra?

Do you pay for the wraithknight's weapon options, or are they all free swaps?

locarno24 wrote:
....That slipped under the rumour radar.
So a warwalker squad with eldar missile launchers can do double duty as a hydra?

Do you pay for the wraithknight's weapon options, or are they all free swaps?

apart from the weakness of the platform yes, and the wraithknight comes base with wraith cannons and the other two are free, with the should weapons the SL and SC went down a melta-bomb in price.

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
How has the base unit pricing in the following aspects changed:
- howling banshees

2ppm cheaper

- striking scorpions
- fire dragons
- warp spiders
- dire avengers

no change.

- dark reapers (BTW are these started in squads of 3 or 5?)

5pmm cheaper, min squad 3.

- jain zar

identical


Oh, another buff I hadn't seen elsewhere yet, Rangers get Shrouded now instead of just Stealth for the same price.

Any changes to Spiders?

I heard they can now use their special movement during the enemy's shooting phase? What about the rumor that they make to wound rolls against initiative?

 GearheadXII wrote:
Any changes to Spiders?

I heard they can now use their special movement during the enemy's shooting phase? What about the rumor that they make to wound rolls against initiative?

Basically if they're declared a target of a shooting attack they can warp jump (potentially taking them out of range) and the firing unit cannot choose a different target, but then the Warp Spiders give up their move in the next turn. Exarch makes the unit Fearless, but without any of the downsides (e.g. they can still Go to Ground). Otherwise identical

 Vaktathi wrote:

 GearheadXII wrote:
Any changes to Spiders?

I heard they can now use their special movement during the enemy's shooting phase? What about the rumor that they make to wound rolls against initiative?

Basically if they're declared a target of a shooting attack they can warp jump (potentially taking them out of range) and the firing unit cannot choose a different target, but then the Warp Spiders give up their move in the next turn. Exarch makes the unit Fearless, but without any of the downsides (e.g. they can still Go to Ground). Otherwise identical

That's actually really neat. You have to weigh how badly you want a chance to escape the worst of the enemy fire versus the chance to shoot back on your opponent's turn. Plus, it's one less bit of movement for you to do with the spiders on your own turn. I always feel a bit self-conscious about moving my spiders in three phases of my own turn.

Striking Scorpions. Anything interesting happening with them?

Is the wraith knight a character? (I know unlikely but)

Is the avatar the same amount of points?

AnomanderRake wrote:Striking Scorpions. Anything interesting happening with them?

Mandiblasters wound on a 4+ instead of being S3. They are Shrouded up until they shoot or fight in a combat, and retain Stealth (that never goes away) on top of that.
Exarch gets an extra attack for each point of Init higher than an opponent in a challenge.

Skullhammer wrote:Is the wraith knight a character? (I know unlikely but)

Negatory

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Is the avatar the same amount of points?

Aye. He s now he's a LoW and gets +2S in melee. Khaine Awakened gives Fearless, Rage, and Furious Charge now instead of just Fearless.

Does the wording prevent the spiders from doing their extra move more than once per enemy shooting phase?

How does the flier attack by the swooping hawks work? Like a vector strike in the movement phase or is it a shooting phase attack that they can use after deep striking due to move + shoot? Or is is an actual assault phase thing, that may only happen after they've moved over a flier?

Does the Striking Scorpion's special ability specify it lasts until the fight phase? If it specifies fight phase, that means they have it against overwatch. If it turns off in the charge phase, then you eon't get it against overwatch.

Annnnnnnnd Im back


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 BlaxicanX wrote:
Does the Striking Scorpion's special ability specify it lasts until the fight phase? If it specifies fight phase, that means they have it against overwatch. If it turns off in the charge phase, then you eon't get it against overwatch.

Says when it fires or fights in combat so I'd say they get it against overwatch.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Does the Striking Scorpion's special ability specify it lasts until the fight phase? If it specifies fight phase, that means they have it against overwatch. If it turns off in the charge phase, then you eon't get it against overwatch.

It lasts until "the unit shoots or fights in combat." So you get it against overwatch.

 Drasius wrote:
Does the wording prevent the spiders from doing their extra move more than once per enemy shooting phase?

How does the flier attack by the swooping hawks work? Like a vector strike in the movement phase or is it a shooting phase attack that they can use after deep striking due to move + shoot? Or is is an actual assault phase thing, that may only happen after they've moved over a flier?

It doesn't seem to prevent multiple moves in the enemy shooting phase, that seems off to me, so I'd say play it as once.

Each hawk can make an attack against flyer or flying MC they moved over (they move 18" now) and on a 4+ hit the side armour with a s4 ap4 haywire attack.




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Skullhammer wrote:
Is the wraith knight a character? (I know unlikely but)

Unless you go Iyanden, Which still works as a codex because it only gives different warlord traits and relics, adds the shadow council and gives you the option to make a wraithlord or knight the warlord (and thus a character). This book is so copy pasted that none of the wording in Iyanden prevents it from being taken.

Thanks for the clarification on the Scorpions. 2+ cover against overwatch is baller.

Could you elaborate on how the Fire Prism squadron's special rule works? When you take a squadron of them, is each Prism's attack increased in strength, or do they like... combine all there shots into one?

Also, does a squadron need to contain three Prisms to get the rule, or can you have a squadron of two?

You pick 1 prism to fire, same goes with the night spinners. Not really worth the extra points when you can just take a Knight with 2 D shots.

You get +1S and -1AP for each additional prism, so you can still rock 2 and get a S10 Ap1 lance. But that's 250pts vs the 295 knight.

Yeah, that's a bit of a boner killer. Ah well. Thanks.

Personally Im going to try the aspect host with 3 units of dark reapers with starshot missiles.

18 Bs5/6 missile launchers that ignore jink and reroll against flyers or 33 starswarm missiles

Did the exarch weapon upgrade options and costs change? Such as the shimmershield and powersword option for dire avenger exarch?

Just sucks that i have a local tournament on the 25th and I wont get my farseer edition eldar codex until next week...

 Vaktathi wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:Striking Scorpions. Anything interesting happening with them?

Mandiblasters wound on a 4+ instead of being S3. They are Shrouded up until they shoot or fight in a combat, and retain Stealth (that never goes away) on top of that.
Exarch gets an extra attack for each point of Init higher than an opponent in a challenge.

Skullhammer wrote:Is the wraith knight a character? (I know unlikely but)

Negatory

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Is the avatar the same amount of points?

Aye. He s now he's a LoW and gets +2S in melee. Khaine Awakened gives Fearless, Rage, and Furious Charge now instead of just Fearless.

Seriously? Rage and furious charge bubble? this might actually be more broken than jetbikes lol.

 Xerics wrote:
Did the exarch weapon upgrade options and costs change? Such as the shimmershield and powersword option for dire avenger exarch?

Just sucks that i have a local tournament on the 25th and I wont get my farseer edition eldar codex until next week...

Pretty much all stayed the same. Copy paste book for the win



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 Xenomancers wrote:

Seriously? Rage and furious charge bubble? this might actually be more broken than jetbikes lol.

He is still 5 wounds, T6 3+/5++

Small correction re Warp Spiders: If they elect to Warp Jump during their opponent's shooting phase, they only forfeit the ability to Warp Jump during their next turn (as opposed to forfeiting all movement). They can still move as Jet Pack Infantry.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Did the exarch weapon upgrade options and costs change? Such as the shimmershield and powersword option for dire avenger exarch?

Just sucks that i have a local tournament on the 25th and I wont get my farseer edition eldar codex until next week...

Pretty much all stayed the same. Copy paste book for the win



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 Xenomancers wrote:

Seriously? Rage and furious charge bubble? this might actually be more broken than jetbikes lol.

He is still 5 wounds, T6 3+/5++

With fourtune and surrounded guardian hordes - hes gonna be pretty tough to kill. I'm really feeling the footdar.

Just have lots of distractions for him, trust me he doesn't last long unless you have scarier things running about.

What are the cost of the starshot missile upgrades for dark dealers?

 buddha wrote:
What are the cost of the starshot missile upgrades for dark dealers?

Reapers are 5 points cheaper than before, and starshot missiles are the same. A unit of 5 all with missiles and an exarch is 175pts.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Did the exarch weapon upgrade options and costs change? Such as the shimmershield and powersword option for dire avenger exarch?

Just sucks that i have a local tournament on the 25th and I wont get my farseer edition eldar codex until next week...

Pretty much all stayed the same. Copy paste book for the win



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Seriously? Rage and furious charge bubble? this might actually be more broken than jetbikes lol.

He is still 5 wounds, T6 3+/5++

With fourtune and surrounded guardian hordes - hes gonna be pretty tough to kill. I'm really feeling the footdar.

Graviton or masses Poison ala DE will still kill him quick though.

What about the Howling Banshee's "Power Weapons"?

 Anpu42 wrote:
What about the Howling Banshee's "Power Weapons"?

Still the same, ap3

A lot of the book is copy pasted.

Ugggh but not surprised

Any new fluff a all thats worth reading? Isnt it 160 pages long?

Is the striking scorpion exarch (and Kanandras's) scorpion's claw melee weapon still ST: User x2, AP:2, NOT unwieldy? Or did they retain the strike at Initiative power fist? Secondly, is the scorpion chainsword still +1 strength to the user? Is that on the stat line or added after?

If so, Scorpion Exarches and Kanadras are going to be wrecking house all day long at high initiative striking ST:8 to ST:9, AP:2 shenanigans. That's assuming the Scorpion Exarch can retain his Scorpion Chainsword along with his Scorpion's Claw still, otherwise he'll be ST:6/ST:7 if they're only ST:3 with the chainsword adding +1 after doubling from the Claw.

Thanks for the help with this Ravenous D. Appreciate it man.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Ratius wrote:

A lot of the book is copy pasted.

Ugggh but not surprised

Any new fluff a all thats worth reading? Isnt it 160 pages long?

Still waiting on the fluff.

Ok, cheers.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Is the striking scorpion exarch (and Kanandras's) scorpion's claw melee weapon still ST: User x2, AP:2, NOT unwieldy? Or did they retain the strike at Initiative power fist? Secondly, is the scorpion chainsword still +1 strength to the user? Is that on the stat line or added after?

If so, Scorpion Exarches and Kanadras are going to be wrecking house all day long at high initiative striking ST:8 to ST:9, AP:2 shenanigans. That's assuming the Scorpion Exarch can retain his Scorpion Chainsword along with his Scorpion's Claw still, otherwise he'll be ST:6/ST:7 if they're only ST:3 with the chainsword adding +1 after doubling from the Claw.

Thanks for the help with this Ravenous D. Appreciate it man.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Claw is the same as before. Still awesome. As for chain sword, yup, it is +1S ap6. And you cant combine weapons. So Karandras is throwing down at s8 and exarchs are at S6., there is no more crushing blow.

EDIT: And you're all welcome, I'm trying to stay on top of these leaks like I used to but you know, life.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 buddha wrote:
What are the cost of the starshot missile upgrades for dark dealers?

Reapers are 5 points cheaper than before, and starshot missiles are the same. A unit of 5 all with missiles and an exarch is 175pts.

Much appreciated.

I've missed it and can't track it down... What's the codex specific formation bonus? Maximum run rolls?

 Ravenous D wrote:


Claw is the same as before. Still awesome. As for chain sword, yup, it is +1S ap6. And you cant combine weapons. So Karandras is throwing down at s8 and exarchs are at S6., there is no more crushing blow.

EDIT: And you're all welcome, I'm trying to stay on top of these leaks like I used to but you know, life.

Ok, much obliged once again.

So Scorpion's Claw got a slight nerf to offset their mandiblaster buff. Hate that you can't combine close combat weapons to get both buffs (even if it's a +1 Strength after doubling from the claw, which is how I would think it would work). Is the Claw considered a specialist weapon? If not, it's even more beastly since it does confer the +1 attack for dual CCW's at least.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

 TheKbob wrote:
I've missed it and can't track it down... What's the codex specific formation bonus? Maximum run rolls?

Yup! Auto 6" run, which makes them all sorts of awesome.


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 Red__Thirst wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:


Claw is the same as before. Still awesome. As for chain sword, yup, it is +1S ap6. And you cant combine weapons. So Karandras is throwing down at s8 and exarchs are at S6., there is no more crushing blow.

EDIT: And you're all welcome, I'm trying to stay on top of these leaks like I used to but you know, life.

Ok, much obliged once again.

So Scorpion's Claw got a slight nerf to offset their mandiblaster buff. Hate that you can't combine close combat weapons to get both buffs (even if it's a +1 Strength after doubling from the claw, which is how I would think it would work). Is the Claw considered a specialist weapon? If not, it's even more beastly since it does confer the +1 attack for dual CCW's at least.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Claw is not specialist, so you do get the bonus

Even better. Yea the claw is nutbars, especially considering what Kanandras can do with it. Buh.

What are the new rules for striking scorpions?

Aside from Deep Striking if and only if you take 3, was there any change at all to Falcons? (I haven't seen their page in any of the leaks)

Falcons are the same, other then scatter lasers are free.


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 Nicky86 wrote:
What are the new rules for striking scorpions?

Mandiblasters cause wounds on 4+ and they come with stealh and have shrouding until they shoot or fight in combat. Besides that its lots of copy pasting.

Thanks! At least my Dakka Falcon will be cheaper then!

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
I have not heard anything about rangers, are they still troops? What if anything changed with them? How much do they cost?

Can you still make pathfinders, or do you need to take that ranger HQ guy still?

Rangers have shrouded, and are the exact same as before. Illic is there, his weapon works like it used to, it is NOT D. and his old bonuses only work on rangers.

Okay, can you elaborate a bit on this?

Can Illic still upgrade ALL units of Rangers to Pathfinders(granting Precision Shots on all hits, same as Illic)? Or is that option just completely gone aside from putting him into a unit of Rangers?

Illic makes the unit of rangers he joins get precision shots same as illic.

Pathfinders are gone.

That's nonsense then.

Pathfinders aren't gone, they just moved to the Tau codex

Which units are troops choices? Same as before?

Bharring wrote:
Aside from Deep Striking if and only if you take 3, was there any change at all to Falcons? (I haven't seen their page in any of the leaks)

I'll have to go and grab my Codex today so I can pick at the language on the Deep Strike rule. This one is really bizarre to me... because how the heck do you land 3 falcons beside each other on a table, with two at 4" apart from the first... On most of our tables, that's all but impossible on the opponent's deployment zone (since we have a lot of terrain). Certainly, my opponent could severely limit where I can deep strike.

rangers lost stealth, so no doubling up with illics shrouding like they used to.

Guess rangers are paying for the 3rd ed list still.


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 Talys wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Aside from Deep Striking if and only if you take 3, was there any change at all to Falcons? (I haven't seen their page in any of the leaks)

I'll have to go and grab my Codex today so I can pick at the language on the Deep Strike rule. This one is really bizarre to me... because how the heck do you land 3 falcons beside each other on a table, with two at 4" apart from the first... On most of our tables, that's all but impossible on the opponent's deployment zone (since we have a lot of terrain). Certainly, my opponent could severely limit where I can deep strike.

Falcons don't scatter, that's how!


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lustigjh wrote:
Which units are troops choices? Same as before?

Guardians (both kinds)
Jetibkes
Avengers
Rangers

Nothing moves slots.

Nerf serpents and buff falcons. Excellent move GW.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's nonsense then.

rangers get shrouded instead of stealth now, same price, so they basically just buffed all rangers to pathfinders

 Ravenous D wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I've missed it and can't track it down... What's the codex specific formation bonus? Maximum run rolls?

Yup! Auto 6" run, which makes them all sorts of awesome.

So, yea. No one is talking about this. It's probably one of the most powerful things in the codex. Anything that you can remove a dice roll from is immediately strong. More so in a game of premeasurement.

 TheKbob wrote:


So, yea. No one is talking about this. It's probably one of the most powerful things in the codex. Anything that you can remove a dice roll from is immediately strong. More so in a game of premeasurement.

I use the bunkerpult for my wraithguard, for me to get the auto 6 is a big deal, cause there is so many times that will help.

Yeah it's crazy powerful it's been mentioned before but with the warhost these are the possible movements for the units

Dire Avengers : Move 12" still shoot
Fire Dragons : Move 12" Still Shoot
Swooping Hawks : Move 24" Still Shoot
WARP SPIDERS : Move 6 + 2D6 + 6 + 2D6.
Banshees : Move 15"
Scorpions : Move 12"

Wraith Host : Move 12" Still Shoot

Is Holofields a copy/paste or is it an invuln like in the Harlies book?

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah it's crazy powerful it's been mentioned before but with the warhost these are the possible movements for the units

Dire Avengers : Move 12" still shoot
Fire Dragons : Move 12" Still Shoot
Swooping Hawks : Move 24" Still Shoot
WARP SPIDERS : Move 6 + 2D6 + 6 + 2D6.
Banshees : Move 15"
Scorpions : Move 12"

Wraith Host : Move 12" Still Shoot

Even better when combined with the aspect host, 90 Bs5 shots from 30 dire avengers with a threat range of 30" (or 36" from serpents)


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 mars2024 wrote:
Is Holofields a copy/paste or is it an invuln like in the Harlies book?

Same points, but is a 5++

I am curious why people are saying copy paste? It seems like every unit has had significant changes to how it works?

I dont think in general people like HUGE revamps and complete changes. They like little tweeks that make more units more viable. I think we are finally seeing the ability to run aspects(and not be gimping yourself). Which has been wanted for multiple editions.

as someone with a small eldar army(but is not planning on building it up) I am really excited to see the new builds that will be coming out of this book. sure there are the spam builds but they will eventually be countered and so it will be the TAC.

While I worry about facing three wraithknights I am excited about the prospect. They are gonna be easier to kill than AD lance lol so not too worried.

 Leth wrote:
I am curious why people are saying copy paste? It seems like every unit has had significant changes to how it works? Do you mean stats

The wording is identical on a lot of things, where as most rules are usually entirely rewritten there is a lot of things that have just been straight ports. There is still lots of original content but you can see that they did copy paste a lot.

Like the crimson hunter, they forgot that characters don't have precision shots... but the rule is identical.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I am curious why people are saying copy paste? It seems like every unit has had significant changes to how it works? Do you mean stats

The wording is identical on a lot of things, where as most rules are usually entirely rewritten there is a lot of things that have just been straight ports. There is still lots of original content but you can see that they did copy paste a lot.

Like the crimson hunter, they forgot that characters don't have precision shots... but the rule is identical.

True, but still overall I am happy with what I have seen and looking forward to seeing that it has to offer.

Honestly the most annoying thing is trying to memorize all the specific special rules for the units/formation bonuses. Still should not take long(I only play one game)

Do/can normal dark reapers get flakk missiles?( cant rememberthere actual name.)

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I am curious why people are saying copy paste? It seems like every unit has had significant changes to how it works? Do you mean stats

The wording is identical on a lot of things, where as most rules are usually entirely rewritten there is a lot of things that have just been straight ports. There is still lots of original content but you can see that they did copy paste a lot.

Like the crimson hunter, they forgot that characters don't have precision shots... but the rule is identical.

Except that the Crimson Hunter Exarch actually has the Precision Shots special rule.




All in all, except for the blatantly overpowered parts (which IMHO is only the Wraithknight, Wraithguard and D-cannon), this codex is actually pretty awesome. There are some units with questionable value, but nothing that's ridiculously bad, and a way to make any unit very viable if you absolutely must run it.

The only two units that are objectionably bad are Wraith Lords and Shining Spears.

Everything else is straight up better.

Skullhammer wrote:
Do/can normal dark reapers get flakk missiles?( cant rememberthere actual name.)

Yes.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's nonsense then.

rangers get shrouded instead of stealth now, same price, so they basically just buffed all rangers to pathfinders

Other than the whole Pathfinders(meaning multiple units rather than the single unit that Illic joins) losing their Sharpshot ability?

Hollismason wrote:
The only two units that are objectionably bad are Wraith Lords and Shining Spears.

Everything else is straight up better.

Why is the Wraithlord still bad?

Did Dark Reapers keep slow and purposeful (and thus relentless)?


Did the DR Exarch lose the fast shot power?

they still have both

Have the heavy weapon platforms (artillery) changed in point values at all?

Can warlocks still break off from the council to join units?
And if so is it still limited to guardian squads only?

Bharring wrote:
Aside from Deep Striking if and only if you take 3, was there any change at all to Falcons? (I haven't seen their page in any of the leaks)

Is this true? I thought it was a no-scatter deep strike with 3 but otherwise a solo can just deep strike normally?

 Gavik Dross wrote:
Can warlocks still break off from the council to join units?
And if so is it still limited to guardian squads only?

No. The units they could join before can now take Warlocks though.

 Jambles wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Aside from Deep Striking if and only if you take 3, was there any change at all to Falcons? (I haven't seen their page in any of the leaks)

Is this true? I thought it was a no-scatter deep strike with 3 but otherwise a solo can just deep strike normally?

Its true you need 3 to deepstrike otherwise no deep strike


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Vilicate wrote:
Have the heavy weapon platforms (artillery) changed in point values at all?

Nope! D cannons are even better if they ever have anything get in range.


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 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Did Dark Reapers keep slow and purposeful (and thus relentless)?


Did the DR Exarch lose the fast shot power?

The exarch gets fast shot for free and they kept their range finders and slow and purposeful


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pm713 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
The only two units that are objectionably bad are Wraith Lords and Shining Spears.

Everything else is straight up better.

Why is the Wraithlord still bad?

He isn't bad, he just is in a weird spot where wraithguard outshoot him and for less then twice the points you get a knight who is twice as effective.

How much are flakk missiles in a dark reaper squad?

And is the tempest launcher still in(the str 5 ap 3 barrage one)

I honestly don't see a reference for it, EMLs have flakk missiles noted but the reaper launchers don't. Looks like reapers don't have access to flakk missiles but reroll hits against flyers as a rule.

Temptest is S4 ap3 barrage 2

How is Illic's gun? Still Distort?

Ah sweet so its still in. and i'm guessing the exarchs fast shot still works on the tempest launcher?

 Ashiraya wrote:
How is Illic's gun? Still Distort?

Its definitely not D. Its the same as it was, on a 6 it causes instant death or a pen on a tank.


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Avlaen wrote:
Ah sweet so its still in. and i'm guessing the exarchs fast shot still works on the tempest launcher?

To the wording it adds a shot to any weapon he fires

What's the wording on an autarch with a banshee mask ?

I've been hearing he won't prevent over watch with the mask and that's a banshee rule.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
What's the wording on an autarch with a banshee mask ?

I've been hearing he won't prevent over watch with the mask and that's a banshee rule.

"At least one model in the unit...."

Yup, so an autarch or Jain Zarr attached to anything will stop overwatch

pm713 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
The only two units that are objectionably bad are Wraith Lords and Shining Spears.

Everything else is straight up better.

Why is the Wraithlord still bad?

Because he was bad before, got no extra rules or upgrades to make him better, got no points decrease to make him more viable, and everything around him got better making it even less likely you would want to take him. For the cost of 1 WL, I can take 5 scatter bikes. For the price of 2, I can take a WK.

Does a autarch with Swooping hawk wings move 18 to or is that a hawk only rule?

Does the banshees +3" to run and charge distances require the whole unit to have the rule? (ie would adding in an autarch negate that bonus?)

It's a shame they didn't include the Wraithseer in there. I don't see the Revenant so its stats stayed the same as the Apocalypse Book while the trancendant C'Tan got added to the necron codex and got worse.

Avlaen wrote:
Does a autarch with Swooping hawk wings move 18 to or is that a hawk only rule?

Does the banshees +3" to run and charge distances require the whole unit to have the rule? (ie would adding in an autarch negate that bonus?)

Any model with hawk wings moves 18" and can sky leap.

*double checking on the banshees*

Entirely must consist of models with the rule.

Yeah reapers actually have to pay for the Star Shot Missiles, that are ST8 AP3 however they reroll shots versus fliers and the Dark Eldar Exarch can purchase a Eldar Missile Launcher that has skyfire missiles and with his ability will be Heavy 2 reroll misses at BS 5.

So no Dark Reapers do not have access to skyfire.

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah reapers actually have to pay for the Star Shot Missiles, that are ST8 AP3 however they reroll shots versus fliers and the Dark Eldar Exarch can purchase a Eldar Missile Launcher that has skyfire missiles and with his ability will be Heavy 2 reroll misses at BS 5.

So no Dark Reapers do not have access to skyfire.

Even then, 6 s8 shots that ignore jink with rerolls should net 1 or 2 hits.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah reapers actually have to pay for the Star Shot Missiles, that are ST8 AP3 however they reroll shots versus fliers and the Dark Eldar Exarch can purchase a Eldar Missile Launcher that has skyfire missiles and with his ability will be Heavy 2 reroll misses at BS 5.

So no Dark Reapers do not have access to skyfire.

Even then, 6 s8 shots that ignore jink with rerolls should net 1 or 2 hits.

Reapers are actually pretty good against Flyrants since they overcome all of his saves.

6 starshots will average about 1.53 wounds.

Can you please tell me how Warlock councils work? Can Seerstar be a thing?

Conclaves are pretty straight forward.

Warlocks do not have independent character.

1-3 They are Mastery Level 1
3-7 Level 2
8+ Level 3

Each Warlock in the Conclave generates a Warp charge.


Seer Council is absolutely a thing however it's expensive , it's a formation that's 2 Farseers and a Conclave of Warlocks, which has to be at least 5 Warlocks.

So at minimum you're looking at 250 points for Jetbike Warlocks, and another 260 for the 2 Farseers. That generates 11 Warp Charge on it's own and casts spells on a 3+.

So a lot of points but casting spells on a 3+ is kind of boss. Especially if you reduce the Warp Charge of Spells that are level 2 to one with the special trinket.

Enjoy throwing around Apocalyptic Blasts with Haywire, Fleshbane and AP3.

But they would only know runes of battle and sanctic?


Also, the squad of 5 will only know 2 powers?

Can they also take heavy weapons? What are their stats? Would they absolutely fail at combat?


Thank you very much btw. I have just been accumulating Harlequin jetbikes, and I have been turning them into warlocks.

I am also happy that WK is a Titan like unit. I will just drop this thread here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/582965.page

I was told that the Wraithknight is the Eldar titan... Now it really is.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
But they would only know runes of battle and sanctic?


Also, the squad of 5 will only know 2 powers?

Can they also take heavy weapons? What are their stats? Would they absolutely fail at combat?


Thank you very much btw. I have just been accumulating Harlequin jetbikes, and I have been turning them into warlocks.

A squad of five if they only went runes of Battle Wound know 3 powers, also going Sanctic is not a bad idea with the formation.

They get Jetbikes and Singing Spears. That's it. Same stats as before 1w.

Warlocks do not have independent character.

I dunno how it'd be in CC. You could attach a Autarch though so they'd get the whole " no overwatch"

Also, they move 12" in a turn on foot. Kind of neat.

However, a squad of 5 warlocks will generate an additional 7 psychic dice (2 for mastery level and an additional 1/model). So they definitely have some juice.

Doesnt it replace the mastery level dice, not add to it? So 5 generate 5, not 5 + 2

Nope. Communion of Minds grants them the bonus dice and a variable Mastery Level. Unless my leaked photo chopped off a sentence, it does not prevent their group Mastery Level from adding dice normally.


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Which means a squad of 10 would generate 13 dice, and only be able to cast 3 powers. Be a nice buff for your other psykers.

What is the point of it though? Its just 10 guardians that have a 4+ save and a bad statline.

At least before they wouldnt all die to a single round of fire from broadsides. I mean, they werent killy, but they could at least have a bunch of powers to reliably get a 2+ armor or something.


How will you guys use them?

The Avatar does get something out of the Warhost, he moves 12" so that's uh at least something.


Hrmmm weird question I wonder if you can put Eldrad on a Bike cause uh.. Seer council.

Anyone know what Dark Reapers do exactly? Scanned through the thread and couldn't find anything, sorry if I missed it!

Primarily to give me more psychic dice for my Farseers and Shadowseers.

In addition, Windriders can take one per Windrider group, which might be nice too. I use a Freakshow list, so the Horrify power would be super useful. They can always streak around on their 36" bikes for Maelstrom games. Plus, a unit with massed Witchblades and Hammer of Wrath can probably do pretty well at mopping up wounded or straggling units.

Not saying I will definitely use them, but I'm going to consider it.

 gmaleron wrote:
Anyone know what Dark Reapers do exactly? Scanned through the thread and couldn't find anything, sorry if I missed it!

it's literally been stated in the last couple of posts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wonder if you can upgrade Eldrad to have a jetbike.

The Seer council says that if one model buys a jetbike all models MUST buy jetbikes.

 gmaleron wrote:
Anyone know what Dark Reapers do exactly? Scanned through the thread and couldn't find anything, sorry if I missed it!

Same as before, cheaper, with rerolls against anything swooping, zooming, turboboosting, or moving flat out.

And if taken in the Warhost, at BS 5, is that correct?

 Xerics wrote:
I am also happy that WK is a Titan like unit. I will just drop this thread here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/582965.page

I was told that the Wraithknight is the Eldar titan... Now it really is.

In the fluff it is. They are piloted by psychic twins, as twins are rare and seen as special by the eldar race. They run around with revenant and phantom titans keeping the smaller targets away from the larger titans and generally fething gak up. The WK on the table finally fit the WK portrayed in books like Valedor.

 Jimsolo wrote:
And if taken in the Warhost, at BS 5, is that correct?

Yes, BS5. Which doesn't help snap shots but anything else that's moving fast is incredibly nasty. Of note the way it's worded the Exarchs get the BS bonus as well so Dark Reaper Exarch BS6.

One of the things mentioned but not yet truly digested is that the Eldar Missile Launcher comes standard with Starhawk Missiles (the new flakk missiles). There is no upgrade cost for them. Meaning that Wave Serpents, Vypers, Falcons, Warwalkers, Wraithlords, Guardians, Dark Reapers, Wasps, Hornets, Corsairs and Corsair Venoms can all get cheap skyfire now.

 Massawyrm wrote:
One of the things mentioned but not yet truly digested is that the Eldar Missile Launcher comes standard with Starhawk Missiles (the new flakk missiles). There is no upgrade cost for them. Meaning that Wave Serpents, Vypers, Falcons, Warwalkers, Wraithlords, Guardians, Dark Reapers, Wasps, Hornets, Corsairs and Corsair Venoms can all get cheap skyfire now.

Oh my. That's horrible.

 Massawyrm wrote:
One of the things mentioned but not yet truly digested is that the Eldar Missile Launcher comes standard with Starhawk Missiles (the new flakk missiles). There is no upgrade cost for them. Meaning that Wave Serpents, Vypers, Falcons, Warwalkers, Wraithlords, Guardians, Dark Reapers, Wasps, Hornets, Corsairs and Corsair Venoms can all get cheap skyfire now.

Warwalkers look like they might be a a good platform for that; double duty and all.

Do you guys reckon it's possible FW will update their shadow spectres to have the wound bonus, free powers and be included for aspect host formation?

EML has been overcosted and rarely ever taken. Free Flank might change that. Probably better than the Pinning it lost, but I'll miss Pinning more than I'll welcome Flank.

 Massawyrm wrote:
One of the things mentioned but not yet truly digested is that the Eldar Missile Launcher comes standard with Starhawk Missiles (the new flakk missiles). There is no upgrade cost for them. Meaning that Wave Serpents, Vypers, Falcons, Warwalkers, Wraithlords, Guardians, Dark Reapers, Wasps, Hornets, Corsairs and Corsair Venoms can all get cheap skyfire now.

Ahahahahah another nail in the competitive Eldar coffin.

Everyone else pays 10 points for it; the Eldar get it for free because hey, they are superior.

If this is really true, then EMLs will be the most common weapon on pretty much any mounting in an Eldar army. Watch how Tau just got dethroned as anti-air kings. Watch how Eldar bring everything down, even Fliers and FMCs now.

Just a day or so ago I was trying to come up with counters for Eldar lists that dominate with ranged D WK, WG and scatbikes and I had assumed FMC and flier spam should have a chance.

Doesn't change the fact that the EML is by far the most expensive heavy weapon choice. You can't pin EMLs on Jetbikes which all the prophets here are invoking on upcoming tournaments. So your counterlist is pretty much not influenced by the addition of flak missiles to EML.

Imperials usually pay +5 points, if that, when they can get a Missile Launcher over a Heavy Bolter. +10 for Flakk.

Eldar usually pay +15 points for a missile launcher over a basic heavy weapon, which comes with Flakk.

Heavy weapon availability might be a concern, but the pricing for EML specifically doesn't seem that broken...

Is a CAD wraith list still possible with this? I had nothing living in my lists besides vehicle pilots and seers.

Yeah. EML is 15 points, while BL is 5 points. I think the Skyfire missiles are figured into the point cost, especially when you consider they lost pinning.

Bharring wrote:
Imperials usually pay +5 points, if that, when they can get a Missile Launcher over a Heavy Bolter. +10 for Flakk.

Eldar usually pay +15 points for a missile launcher over a basic heavy weapon, which comes with Flakk.

Heavy weapon availability might be a concern, but the pricing for EML specifically doesn't seem that broken...

Devastator Squads pay 15 points for the Missile Launcher and another 10 for the flakk. Sure, that's from bolter, but it does end up at 39 points for what is a basic marine with flakk. What does the equivalent cost at the Eldar camp?

 n0t_u wrote:
Is a CAD wraith list still possible with this? I had nothing living in my lists besides vehicle pilots and seers.

No: Spirit Seers no long change the FoC slot for Wraith Guard. They are Elites, so you'll have to take the requisite 2 units of troops. However, the Wraith Host Formation is 1 Spirit Seer, 3 units of Wraith Guard (any type), a Wraithlord and a Wraithknight. /shrug

90 for a Guardian unit
15? For a HB-equivelent
30? For an EML

Max 1 per 10 Guardians

But perhaps the WW is a better example:
160? For 4x HB-equivelent
+15 per ML, so 220 for 4xML

Devs:
70 stock
110 for 4xHB
130 for 4xML no flak
170 for 4xML+Flakk

On the WW it seems fairly reasonable. A pretty good balance against what it costs for the Devs. 10 points cheaper, a little more mobile but on two platforms that are fairly easy to pick off. Not that 5 marines are immensely hard to pick off, but easier to place somewhere nice, I suppose.

But aren't EML scattered quite liberally across a lot of bigger gun platforms too?

Yes, but you always pay a premium plus you have no access to what you took before, i.e. Bright Lances, Scatter Lasers etc.

According to those numbers, WW is 10 more points per ML+Flank, not less. But yes, it seems reasonable to me.

The heavier platforms can typically take a single EML in place of a heavy weapon for 15pts. When we're talking 110 points for a stock Serpent, that's 125 for one EML shot a round. Useful, but not terrible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the small blast version is AP4, which makes it better than an IoM ML by a little.

Bharring wrote:
According to those numbers, WW is 10 more points per ML+Flank, not less. But yes, it seems reasonable to me.

Actually, 50 more now that you mention it.

The heavier platforms can typically take a single EML in place of a heavy weapon for 15pts. When we're talking 110 points for a stock Serpent, that's 125 for one EML shot a round. Useful, but not terrible.

As long as it can split fire, that 15 point cost is gonna be auto include unless you know you're not gonna face a flier. If you're not able to split fire, though, shooting that one weapon at a flier is gonna invalidate the rest of your guns that round. In that case, no. I would never take it there.
This is my problem with the Dunewalkers. They have a skyfire array that is insane. A group of 3 Dunewalkers with that thing is gonna keep the skies clear... but they will not be able to do anything else well, and if you run one with and two without, then they will have two people firing blindly into the air for rounds where they try to take out airborne things and one that mostly makes "prrrrt" sounds when they are targeting ground targets. And you REALLY want them in that group of 3 for the save.

In the case of the 125 Serpent, it doesn't have Split Fire. But its only other gun (aside from the nerfed Serpent Shield) is a TL shuriken catapult. 2 s4 shots at 12". Not losing much.

Split Fire is really only available to Eldar on HQs and Superheavies.

I really don't see EML being much of a threat.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Nope. Communion of Minds grants them the bonus dice and a variable Mastery Level. Unless my leaked photo chopped off a sentence, it does not prevent their group Mastery Level from adding dice normally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which means a squad of 10 would generate 13 dice, and only be able to cast 3 powers. Be a nice buff for your other psykers.

This is RAW, but purely a function of the crappy rules writing ability of GW designers. It's clear to me that they intended it to replace, not augment, the dice they gain from their ML. Wondering how tournaments will rule it.

How is the Hemlock now? It doesn't get the full strength D weapons, correct?

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Massawyrm wrote:
One of the things mentioned but not yet truly digested is that the Eldar Missile Launcher comes standard with Starhawk Missiles (the new flakk missiles). There is no upgrade cost for them. Meaning that Wave Serpents, Vypers, Falcons, Warwalkers, Wraithlords, Guardians, Dark Reapers, Wasps, Hornets, Corsairs and Corsair Venoms can all get cheap skyfire now.

Ahahahahah another nail in the competitive Eldar coffin.

Everyone else pays 10 points for it; the Eldar get it for free because hey, they are superior.

If this is really true, then EMLs will be the most common weapon on pretty much any mounting in an Eldar army. Watch how Tau just got dethroned as anti-air kings. Watch how Eldar bring everything down, even Fliers and FMCs now.

Just a day or so ago I was trying to come up with counters for Eldar lists that dominate with ranged D WK, WG and scatbikes and I had assumed FMC and flier spam should have a chance.

You say it like anyone would willingly okay against it in the first place. Its just another thing to pile on to GW's screwup pile. This codex is going to go down in their history as their biggest mistake ever. Complaints from all the other sane players that know its nothing but pandering model selling trash, and complaints from those who bought it and now get unfairly screwed by public opinion and get no games.

What are the options for wave serpents? Is upgrade cost for the stock TL catapult to Shuri cannon the same?

Why would anyone have a problem facing the EML? SL, sure. WW, I can see it. But EML pays for Flakk like IoM, they just can't decide not to take it?

Bharring wrote:
Why would anyone have a problem facing the EML? SL, sure. WW, I can see it. But EML pays for Flakk like IoM, they just can't decide not to take it?

No. In the new codex the skyfire missiles come standard. There's no longer an upgrade charge. Half the codex has access to cheap skyfire now, and Guardians get it for free with one of the formations.

That's like saying Razorbacks get a TL HB for free. Technically correct, but practically not.

EML + Flakk costs the same as IoM + Flakk. 15 pts + a HB equivalent.

 Massawyrm wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Why would anyone have a problem facing the EML? SL, sure. WW, I can see it. But EML pays for Flakk like IoM, they just can't decide not to take it?

No. In the new codex the skyfire missiles come standard. There's no longer an upgrade charge. Half the codex has access to cheap skyfire now, and Guardians get it for free with one of the formations.

I think what he means is, the price is baked in. A space marine pays 15 for the missile launcher and 10 for the flakk, but that's from a bolter.
The Eldar seem to mostly, if not always, have to drop a heavy weapon to get it, meaning the model that takes it is already paying up to the equivalent of a space marine with a heavy bolter.
Seen in that light, they've already payed the 10 extra for the flakk. They just don't have the option not to take it. But I could be missing something, as I do not play Eldar.

I was comparing more directly to the difference between an SM with a HB, and an SM with a ML, but same general idea, Purifier.

I can't think of a single place where its not replacing a Shuriken Cannon - the sort of a equivalent of a HB - to take an EML, aside from a Dark Reaper Exarch, where its replacing a different ML.

Bharring wrote:
I was comparing more directly to the difference between an SM with a HB, and an SM with a ML, but same general idea, Purifier.

I can't think of a single place where its not replacing a Shuriken Cannon - the sort of a equivalent of a HB - to take an EML, aside from a Dark Reaper Exarch, where its replacing a different ML.

Ah, I see what you're saying. It's not the price decrease from the previous codex which is the issue (The price of most EML's didn't change, and you're right about the Cannon tax), the issue is only 2 units in the previous codex, Dark reapers and Warwalkers, could purchase the Flakks. Now Everyone that can take an EML gets it, removing the need for dedicated AA. Personally I like the change, but that's the issue.

Compared to 'Crimson Hunter, Serpents, or pray', having a few other ways to do AA is nice.

And at that price point, its usually only purchased if you really, really like the EML (I do), or you want a little AA somewhere.

That said,
1) With the new dex, we didn't need it. So much else can do AA now it seems.
2) flakk doesn't seem to be a common AA strategy for other armies that can take it.
3) The EML lost pinning. Still kinda bummed.

I really don't think the EML is going to be a problem. Might actually be worth 15pts each now, even. But it's certainly not undercosted.

So what does the Dire Avenger Shrine get?
What units are required for the StormHost?

Col. Dash wrote:
So what does the Dire Avenger Shrine get?
What units are required for the StormHost?

Simply ridiculous (and wonderful!) number of perks for the Dire Avenger Shrine:
1. 3 units of Dire Avengers, only 1 can have an Exarch, but not mandatory to have one
2. +1 BS for the Dire Avengers in the formation
3. Once per game (one shooting phase per game), guns are Assault 3 instead of Assault 2
4. Can reroll Morale, Fear and Pinning tests

The Stormhost requirements are:
1. 1 Farseer
2. 1 Squadron of Vypers (minimum of 1)
3. 1 Unit of Warwalkers (minimum of 1)
4. 3 Units of Storm Guardians (8-man sized minimum)
5. 1 Unit of Vaul's Wraith Support Battery (minimum of 1)
6. 0-1 Warlock Conclave (optional)

Whats the deal with War Walkers?

How does the Aspect formation work?

pm713 wrote:
How does the Aspect formation work?

3 units in any combo of aspects. All must take an exarch. All can re-roll morale checks. Before battle, pick +1BS or +1WS, this applies to all models in the formation. Bit inflexible that, because obviously if you mix close combat and shooting aspects you don't quite get the full benefits.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Whats the deal with War Walkers?

Same everything as before but scatter lasers are now free like the shuri canons

How many attacks does the wraithknight have?

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
How many attacks does the wraithknight have?

4 + D3 stomps

Whats the deal with War Walkers?



Same everything as before but scatter lasers are now free like the shuri canons

Do you guys see WW becomming defunct with this release since scatbikes are effectively the same platform, the HS slot being crowded already and them getting no new buffs. I have 4 collcted over the years but am not sure they now serve a function?
Before taking 3 could put out 24 shots with a 5+ save from the shield but bike spam now makes that seem insignificant.

I don't see WW getting shelved; they are the best platform for the EML.

sorry if this has already been answered/ asked, but does a spiritseer still allow wraith gurard/blade to be troops?

 the shrouded lord wrote:
sorry if this has already been answered/ asked, but does a spiritseer still allow wraith gurard/blade to be troops?

lol nope. The days of Force org swapping are over.

Fuuuu

Seeing what's going to be in this codex and what's comming in the future, the days of the Force Organisation chart are comming to an end. 40K is living another reboot comparable to what we have seen between 2nd and 3rd eddition. Welcome to the age of Unbown and Formation. Don't worry, it's gonna be fun (PS: I am actualy honest saying that).

epronovost wrote:
Welcome to the age of Unbown and Formation. Don't worry, it's gonna be fun (PS: I am actualy honest saying that).

Totally agreed. I fully approve of the direction the game is moving.

Quick fluff question for the new dex:

Does the timeline page contain an entree for a future event that seems to be a really big deal? It would be the last entree of the timeline, I ask because as Matt from MWG pointed out, the past few codicies have had a sort of hint for big events to come, with the Harlequin timeline referencing a "big final act" and the Skitarii discussed a them fining an STC which would allow them to master psychic powers, and optimize humanity's psychic form.

I am curious if this trend continues and if it i indeed pointing to some kind of timeline advancement.

Would appreciate you looking into it, thanks ahead of time!