Do you prefer the drop pod + melta method, taking out tanks at the beginning of the game?
Or
Do you throw in some plasmas and drop in for some anti infantry action?
Or
Do you save your points and rely solely on special ammo?
Or
Have you found some other creative and deadly way to field your Sternguard Veterans?

And by all means, describe any instances where your strategy worked out beautifully. (link some battle reports if you have them.)

Take two Plasma Guns or Melta Guns, and about 7-8 in a squad. Don't go TOO over the top.

6/10 Combi-Melta, 4/10 Bolter in a Drop Pod. Drop next to a tank or something nasty. Blow tank up. Use appropriate Special Ammunition after that point.

In an Objective game, enjoy ObSec Sternguard.

Tyrannic War Veterans (Sternguard with only Hellfire ammo) and Chaplain Cassius in a Land Raider Redeemer. They work as my Horde killers above all else and the rest of my list can focus on killing tanks and heavy Infantry. Bikes with Melta, Tacticals with the Grav Cannon, that sort of thing. But the Veterans rip apart things without good armor and the Land Raider torches what does.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Tyrannic War Veterans (Sternguard with only Hellfire ammo) and Chaplain Cassius in a Land Raider Redeemer. They work as my Horde killers above all else and the rest of my list can focus on killing tanks and heavy Infantry. Bikes with Melta, Tacticals with the Grav Cannon, that sort of thing. But the Veterans rip apart things without good armor and the Land Raider torches what does.

Interesting. Do you find that you have better results with a Land Raider instead of a Drop Pod? I am considering a different strategy with mine since I don't like having the squad getting shot up as easily as it does after they alpha strike.

Actually, I haven't used them in a drop pod so I can't compare the two. The Formation I use restricts that. But, I haven't had a problem with my Land Raider yet. It keeps the threat mobile as the game goes on and I don't have to fully commit an expensive unit to one section of the table. Very few things want to be within 24" of wherever I put the Redeemer and it gives me very good table control.

SharkoutofWata wrote:Tyrannic War Veterans (Sternguard with only Hellfire ammo) and Chaplain Cassius in a Land Raider Redeemer. They work as my Horde killers above all else and the rest of my list can focus on killing tanks and heavy Infantry. Bikes with Melta, Tacticals with the Grav Cannon, that sort of thing. But the Veterans rip apart things without good armor and the Land Raider torches what does.

SharkoutofWata wrote:Actually, I haven't used them in a drop pod so I can't compare the two. The Formation I use restricts that. But, I haven't had a problem with my Land Raider yet. It keeps the threat mobile as the game goes on and I don't have to fully commit an expensive unit to one section of the table. Very few things want to be within 24" of wherever I put the Redeemer and it gives me very good table control.

Everyone always wants to go the drop pod route with their Sternguard, but I really like what you have. I'd prefer to keep my losses to a minimum, rather than use them as a suicide squad. What formation are you using? What has your success rate been?

BA Sternguard in a fast Rhino have worked pretty well for me. I mean, it's BA, so there's low expectations.

The St. Tylus battle force is Cassius, 1+ TWVs, and 0-6 stormtalons. The vets are not allowed to take pods, but can take LRs as DTs. They can’t normally take rhinos/razors.

While fluffy and cool, I dislike the rules for the TWVs. And I say that as an Ultramarine player who owns the minis. Outside a few niche cases, regular sternguard are the same or just better. Which is a shame.

As for my sternguard, they normally work in a 9 or 10 man squad in a pod. Usually with a pair of HFs, occasionally a handful of c-meltas. With the 1st co formation, full 10 man squads are more attractive. Combat squadding on the drop will yield 3 units, enough to trigger the special rule.

I like to use them as 10 mans with no upgrades. The cost of combies is just too high. They weren't OP at 5 points - don't know why they changed it.

It's really too bad we don't have an open topped transport we could put them in - then theyd be really good.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like to use them as 10 mans with no upgrades. The cost of combies is just too high. They weren't OP at 5 points - don't know why they changed it.

It's really too bad we don't have an open topped transport we could put them in - then theyd be really good.

I now want to see some sternguard in scout armor, zooming around in a LSS doing black ops kinda work. The kind of work that requires shooting special ammo out of fast skimmers

 Nevelon wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like to use them as 10 mans with no upgrades. The cost of combies is just too high. They weren't OP at 5 points - don't know why they changed it.

It's really too bad we don't have an open topped transport we could put them in - then theyd be really good.

I now want to see some sternguard in scout armor, zooming around in a LSS doing black ops kinda work. The kind of work that requires shooting special ammo out of fast skimmers

Yeah that would be awesome - it begs me to wonder too. You have dudes like sgt. Telion (who is a career scout) there must be some scouts who would be approaching the skills of a sterngard. In today special forces as you said - our scouts are actually our best trained and most deadly units. So - why can't some scouts get some special ammo!?

 Nevelon wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like to use them as 10 mans with no upgrades. The cost of combies is just too high. They weren't OP at 5 points - don't know why they changed it.

It's really too bad we don't have an open topped transport we could put them in - then theyd be really good.

I now want to see some sternguard in scout armor, zooming around in a LSS doing black ops kinda work. The kind of work that requires shooting special ammo out of fast skimmers

Yes, please! Elite Scouts with Sternguard Ammo would be amazing. Would give me a reason to get more Land Speeder Storms too.

Nevelon said it. The Saint Tylus Formation. As long as they stick to their intended target, they do great. It's an expensive unit that chews through troop choices and leaves the bulk of my army available to take on other things. The Stormtalons being on the table Turn 1 with Infiltrate is friggin awesome, and in casual games it's more than enough to give me the advantage. I only run one to be friendly. Competitively it's not as good simply because a lot of armies at that level have a Turn 1 answer to Land Raiders and I lose all mobility.

I'm a fluffy player at heart which is why I use the TWV instead of normal Sternguard in my Ultramarines, but there's no reason why the same idea doesn't work with regular Sternguard.

I use mine using the ARCHANGELS SANGUINE WING Loaded up with Combi-Plasmas and two Plasma Guns.
The Vanguard Vets get Power Lance/Spear and Storm Shields [300 Style]
And then toss in a Close Combat tooled Dread.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I use mine using the ARCHANGELS SANGUINE WING Loaded up with Combi-Plasmas and two Plasma Guns.
The Vanguard Vets get Power Lance/Spear and Storm Shields [300 Style]
And then toss in a Close Combat tooled Dread.

Incredibly inefficient.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I use mine using the ARCHANGELS SANGUINE WING Loaded up with Combi-Plasmas and two Plasma Guns.
The Vanguard Vets get Power Lance/Spear and Storm Shields [300 Style]
And then toss in a Close Combat tooled Dread.

Incredibly inefficient.

What, I am only really Paying for the two Plasma Guns, Storm Shields and Jump Packs.

If your going to take stormshields and lances, why not just take lightning claws. They are also free and get reroll to wound rather than +1s, and they ALWAYS get it...not just on the turn they charge.

effreem wrote:
If your going to take stormshields and lances, why not just take lightning claws. They are also free and get reroll to wound rather than +1s, and they ALWAYS get it...not just on the turn they charge.

Because this is SPARTA!

I thematic choice, but I might do it for one of them. Those crested helm are hard to find.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I use mine using the ARCHANGELS SANGUINE WING Loaded up with Combi-Plasmas and two Plasma Guns.
The Vanguard Vets get Power Lance/Spear and Storm Shields [300 Style]
And then toss in a Close Combat tooled Dread.

Incredibly inefficient.

What, I am only really Paying for the two Plasma Guns, Storm Shields and Jump Packs.

Oh, that formation. I didn't like being forced to take two squads of overpriced crap in the form of Vanguards. The power weapons don't really help that much, only the free combis. And with combi plas, you are killing some of your own expensive Sternguards.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I use mine using the ARCHANGELS SANGUINE WING Loaded up with Combi-Plasmas and two Plasma Guns.
The Vanguard Vets get Power Lance/Spear and Storm Shields [300 Style]
And then toss in a Close Combat tooled Dread.

Incredibly inefficient.

What, I am only really Paying for the two Plasma Guns, Storm Shields and Jump Packs.

Oh, that formation. I didn't like being forced to take two squads of overpriced crap in the form of Vanguards. The power weapons don't really help that much, only the free combis. And with combi plas, you are killing some of your own expensive Sternguards.

Yes I have to deal with 'Gets Hot', but I can Vaporize a Riptide in one Volley.

Only if your opponent is braindead. You won't doubletap anything I care about in my BA lists, and I doubt a good Tau player will let you do it, either.

Martel732 wrote:
Only if your opponent is braindead. You won't doubletap anything I care about in my BA lists, and I doubt a good Tau player will let you do it, either.

I was going to say something about using tactics and using terrain, but all of that never means anything to you because we are not in the same META.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Only if your opponent is braindead. You won't doubletap anything I care about in my BA lists, and I doubt a good Tau player will let you do it, either.

I was going to say something about using tactics and using terrain, but all of that never means anything to you because we are not in the same META.

So your meta doesn't use bubblewrap? Or transports? Or board edges? Okay.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Only if your opponent is braindead. You won't doubletap anything I care about in my BA lists, and I doubt a good Tau player will let you do it, either.

I was going to say something about using tactics and using terrain, but all of that never means anything to you because we are not in the same META.

So your meta doesn't use bubblewrap? Or transports? Or board edges? Okay.

Yes we do that, but we also use Blocking Terrain and Bubble Wrap Means nothing with a target with a 5++ Save if I can get within 12".

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Only if your opponent is braindead. You won't doubletap anything I care about in my BA lists, and I doubt a good Tau player will let you do it, either.

I was going to say something about using tactics and using terrain, but all of that never means anything to you because we are not in the same META.

So your meta doesn't use bubblewrap? Or transports? Or board edges? Okay.

Yes we do that, but we also use Blocking Terrain and Bubble Wrap Means nothing with a target with a 5++ Save if I can get within 12".

If you can get within 12", it's not bubblewrap. That's the whole point.

Personally, I like using them in the Deathwatch Kill-team formation from Warzone : Damnos. It's one captain + 2 or more Sternguard / Vanguard in any combination.

When I choose sternguard, I make them my MC/GMC dedicated killers cause I usually play against Nids or Eldar. With a Drop-pod 2 Grav guns and 1 grav pistol, they strike hard, especially because the formation give them Preferred Enemy (Xenos). I like to stick a Location Beacon on the drop pod so my Tempestus Scions can DS near them and give them support.

I know it's a costly combination but it's very fluffy and I like it. Sometimes, if I play well, my vets can avoid retaliatory fire and then they become even more a pain in the butt for my opponent.

I like to leave them painted on the shelf looking pretty with the other mediocre models I never field unless playing a certain few bodies

I play Crimson Fists with Pedro, so Strenguard are good for me.

10 Sternguard; 4 combi-plasma, Drop pod for Marine killing.

10 Sternguard; 4 combi-melta, power fist, Drop pod to kill vehicles.

I used to run a lot more combi and a couple of matching special weapons in the squads, but now it's more basic.

Do you find plasma to be preferable to grav?

Okapi wrote:
Do you find plasma to be preferable to grav?

I'd use plasma over grav. Grav only goes on relentless platforms, imo.

Plasma is sort of my default, and I have a lot more of it available (bits wise) than I do grav. I run grav on my Bikes, but besides that I don't have any. The problem is that I had a large force before grav was even introduced en masse. I haven't bought one of the latest Tactical Marine kits, or any of the new Devastators, nor do I plan to. I have 40 or so Tac Marines and 2 squads of Devs already, with heavy weapons parts enough to make another unit or 2. Simply put, GW's marketing "strategy" didn't work on me. I'll live without it.

If they did a bitz pack of grav guns like they have for melta and plasma, I'd probably pick some up and refit some of my Marines. Until that day though (which we probably won't ever see anyway) I'll be fine. As an aside, where can we find grav bits? I'll list where I know:

Latest Tactical Squad box; 1 grav gun, 1 grav pistol, 1 combi-grav

New Assault Marine box; 1 grav pistol

New Devastator box; 2 grav cannons

Sternguard box; 1 grav gun, 1 grav pistol and 2 (or 3?) combi-grav

Then the plastic Captain clampack has one, but it's hardly swappable.

10 man squad, 5 combi plasma, 5 combi melta in a drop pod.
combat squad them so the two groups can shoot at different targets but can still deploy together in the drop pod.
drop by a tank, pop it with the melta shots then whipe the squad with the plasmas or special ammo

Aedgar Perri wrote:
10 man squad, 5 combi plasma, 5 combi melta in a drop pod.
combat squad them so the two groups can shoot at different targets but can still deploy together in the drop pod.
drop by a tank, pop it with the melta shots then whipe the squad with the plasmas or special ammo

Awesome, best loadout ....last year.
Till the 6th ed. codex hit, this was the best combination. Now with 10 pts per combi, i prefer to run them in 10-man squads, naked and shoot infantry.
I leave the melta drop to a command suad

 Nevelon wrote:
The St. Tylus battle force is Cassius, 1+ TWVs, and 0-6 stormtalons. The vets are not allowed to take pods, but can take LRs as DTs. They can’t normally take rhinos/razors.

While fluffy and cool, I dislike the rules for the TWVs. And I say that as an Ultramarine player who owns the minis. Outside a few niche cases, regular sternguard are the same or just better. Which is a shame.

As for my sternguard, they normally work in a 9 or 10 man squad in a pod. Usually with a pair of HFs, occasionally a handful of c-meltas. With the 1st co formation, full 10 man squads are more attractive. Combat squadding on the drop will yield 3 units, enough to trigger the special rule.

The formation clearly states that they may not take drop pods as a dedicated transport. But what about allied in FA drop pods? This could make for some good turn 1 alpha striking ignores cover shots right?

I also think that 10 pt combi-weapons is super pricey.

Okapi wrote:
Do you find plasma to be preferable to grav?

I do prefer Plasma over Gave for a few reasons.
>Plasma Has a better Range, especially when being Mobile.
>Plasma Wounds models up to T5 on a 2+ no mater the armor.
>Can do a lot of damage to Light Vehicles and to the Rear Armor of most Tanks.

Martel732 wrote:
I also think that 10 pt combi-weapons is super pricey.

Yup, 4-6 is all you need in most cases anyway. And after that you are primarily using the special ammunition for most everything else.

I like 9 Sternguard in a Rhino with Mephiston. I put a powerfist on the Sgt because the old Sternguard model with a powerfist is one of my fave and it helps if anything attacks that mephy can bully (I.e anything with a 2+).

2 or 3 Combi Plas, but generally rely on the special ammo, they're an expensive unit but they can do a lot of heavy lifting. Good for threat saturation with DC.

D

As a command squad with five meltaguns in a pod.

If I'm going to have them suicide, might as well be cheap about it. And if they live past the first turn they then get to shoot their meltas again.

I was going to put combi-weapons on mine, but decided to run them naked instead, seeing as you already pay four points for the special ammo. They land, wipe out a squad of infantry or a monster, and usually die. If I wanted melta I think I'd try the command squad, maybe do proper meltas instead of combi, just in case one of them survived the return fire.

In my group i do not face vehicles that much. Its more high tougness creatures like Tau, Nids and some Dark eldar etc

So i take the first company formation, 3 sternguard squads of 5 men. 1 combi melta per squad and one combi grav. Rest takes Hellfire rounds and go for mass wounds over AP wounds.

I drop them behind enemy lines, locator beacon attached to the pod. Turn 2,3,4,5 i can drop whatever i want next to those pods tro assist since my army is 80% deepstrike ;P

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
In my group i do not face vehicles that much. Its more high tougness creatures like Tau, Nids and some Dark eldar etc

So i take the first company formation, 3 sternguard squads of 5 men. 1 combi melta per squad and one combi grav. Rest takes Hellfire rounds and go for mass wounds over AP wounds.

I drop them behind enemy lines, locator beacon attached to the pod. Turn 2,3,4,5 i can drop whatever i want next to those pods tro assist since my army is 80% deepstrike ;P

Those are my favorite kinds of armies to play against. You volunteer to get within my assault range! Non-skyhammer marine alpha strike lists rarely do enough damage to me to win.

 Lord Corellia wrote:
Plasma is sort of my default, and I have a lot more of it available (bits wise) than I do grav. I run grav on my Bikes, but besides that I don't have any. The problem is that I had a large force before grav was even introduced en masse. I haven't bought one of the latest Tactical Marine kits, or any of the new Devastators, nor do I plan to. I have 40 or so Tac Marines and 2 squads of Devs already, with heavy weapons parts enough to make another unit or 2. Simply put, GW's marketing "strategy" didn't work on me. I'll live without it.

If they did a bitz pack of grav guns like they have for melta and plasma, I'd probably pick some up and refit some of my Marines. Until that day though (which we probably won't ever see anyway) I'll be fine. As an aside, where can we find grav bits? I'll list where I know:

Latest Tactical Squad box; 1 grav gun, 1 grav pistol, 1 combi-grav

New Assault Marine box; 1 grav pistol

New Devastator box; 2 grav cannons

Sternguard box; 1 grav gun, 1 grav pistol and 2 (or 3?) combi-grav

Then the plastic Captain clampack has one, but it's hardly swappable.

Wait, they did a bitz pack for meltas?
How did I ever miss that? I've been looking for a convenient way to get lots of meltas for my MT for ages
All of the websites I found were either out of stock or didn't deliver to Europe.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Space-Marine-Meltaguns

Martel732 wrote:

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
In my group i do not face vehicles that much. Its more high tougness creatures like Tau, Nids and some Dark eldar etc

So i take the first company formation, 3 sternguard squads of 5 men. 1 combi melta per squad and one combi grav. Rest takes Hellfire rounds and go for mass wounds over AP wounds.

I drop them behind enemy lines, locator beacon attached to the pod. Turn 2,3,4,5 i can drop whatever i want next to those pods tro assist since my army is 80% deepstrike ;P

Those are my favorite kinds of armies to play against. You volunteer to get within my assault range! Non-skyhammer marine alpha strike lists rarely do enough damage to me to win.

I understand what you mean, though i dont see tau charging that fast ;P And im called the dicsciple of the dice gods in my group... i rarely miss, rarely fail to wound/penetrate Getting assaulted can be a biatch yes... But i dont mind that much, 9/10 times enough damage has been done

Martel732 wrote:
Those are my favorite kinds of armies to play against. You volunteer to get within my assault range! Non-skyhammer marine alpha strike lists rarely do enough damage to me to win.

I love these lists too. Nobody seems to expect assault units these days, but I always bring some Wraiths/Striking Scorpions/Crusader Squads. The Marines pod in, kill a few models, and are annihilated next turn. Sure, they'll keep me from advancing as fast as I'd like, but it does cost them a couple of points.

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
In my group i do not face vehicles that much. Its more high tougness creatures like Tau, Nids and some Dark eldar etc

So i take the first company formation, 3 sternguard squads of 5 men. 1 combi melta per squad and one combi grav. Rest takes Hellfire rounds and go for mass wounds over AP wounds.

I drop them behind enemy lines, locator beacon attached to the pod. Turn 2,3,4,5 i can drop whatever i want next to those pods tro assist since my army is 80% deepstrike ;P

Those are my favorite kinds of armies to play against. You volunteer to get within my assault range! Non-skyhammer marine alpha strike lists rarely do enough damage to me to win.

I understand what you mean, though i dont see tau charging that fast ;P And im called the dicsciple of the dice gods in my group... i rarely miss, rarely fail to wound/penetrate Getting assaulted can be a biatch yes... But i dont mind that much, 9/10 times enough damage has been done

Have fun killing my Rhinos, and everything else being out of LOS. In my play group, you bring a list and THEN find your opponent. So you don't know if you are dropping against Tau or against assault Tyranids. That's one reason I've quit going drop heavy; they force you to commit very early and mobile opponents like Eldar chew you to pieces.

Martel732 wrote:
Have fun killing my Rhinos, and everything else being out of LOS. In my play group, you bring a list and THEN find your opponent. So you don't know if you are dropping against Tau or against assault Tyranids. That's one reason I've quit going drop heavy; they force you to commit very early and mobile opponents like Eldar chew you to pieces.

Hence on of the reasons I am happy I don't play with your group. Some of us though get to decide what and what we play against and usually know who that is a week in advance.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Have fun killing my Rhinos, and everything else being out of LOS. In my play group, you bring a list and THEN find your opponent. So you don't know if you are dropping against Tau or against assault Tyranids. That's one reason I've quit going drop heavy; they force you to commit very early and mobile opponents like Eldar chew you to pieces.

Hence on of the reasons I am happy I don't play with your group. Some of us though get to decide what and what we play against and usually know who that is a week in advance.

That seems absolutely insane to me. Every list is tailored, and you don't have to take any kind of generalized capabilities. So out of curiosity, what would your list against a blind opponent look like? Or would you insist on at least knowing the codex?

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Have fun killing my Rhinos, and everything else being out of LOS. In my play group, you bring a list and THEN find your opponent. So you don't know if you are dropping against Tau or against assault Tyranids. That's one reason I've quit going drop heavy; they force you to commit very early and mobile opponents like Eldar chew you to pieces.

Hence on of the reasons I am happy I don't play with your group. Some of us though get to decide what and what we play against and usually know who that is a week in advance.

That seems absolutely insane to me. Every list is tailored, and you don't have to take any kind of generalized capabilities. So out of curiosity, what would your list against a blind opponent look like?

To be honest I do not know, I don't play in your META. Most likely my Plasma SPAM List.
As for the "List Tailoring", we both have completely different concepts of that definition.
To me "List Tailoring" is knowing that next week my Space Marines are fighting Orks so I will leave the Grav at home. It is not like we look over each others list and make adjustments from there. We also tend to have the following conversation.

Anpu42: So what do want to play next week?
Nycus: I got me some of those Spore Pods I want to try.
Anup42: Cool I want to try a new List formed around Arjac's Shield Brothers.
Nycus: Cool I have wanted to see that Formation in action.

I know I am facing Nids in Pods, I don't know what will be in those pods, it couold be Fex's or Guants or even a Hive Tyrant.
He know that I am going to have a -ton of Thunder Hammers and a LRC, but that is about it.
To me this is not "List Tailoring"

Yeah, that's exactly what list tailoring is. If taking out grav from your list against Orks is NOT list tailoring, what IS list tailoring, then?

All my lists have grav because I don't know when I'm going to need it. This makes Orks a much harder match up for me than you because I don't know to leave the grav guns at home. The Ork list could just have easily been tri-Riptide. In my view, this gives you a skewed view of the effectiveness of Orks compared to how I face Orks.

This reason is why Eldar are so disgusting. They don't have to make these choices because the scatterlaser is so UNIVERSALLY effective.

Interestingly, plasma spam is not a horrible TAC choice, but mech could be a serious problem. It's pretty good against non-Riptide MCs. Riptides won't let you within range if they are any good.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, that's exactly what list tailoring is.

All my lists have grav because I don't know when I'm going to need it. This makes Orks a much harder match up for me than you because I don't know to leave the grav guns at home. The Ork list could just have easily been tri-Riptide. In my view, this gives you a skewed view of the effectiveness of Orks compared to how I face Orks.

This reason is why Eldar are so disgusting. They don't have to make these choices because the scatterlaser is so UNIVERSALLY effective.

No that is your Definition of "List Tailoring".
Your META has made it so it is hard to have a good "TAC" list, because such a thing does not exist anymore (as someone put it and I agree).
There is also some logic to how we do it. If Space Mares are about to Assault a Ork force, they are going to leave the Grav at home. Very rarely does one attack a completely unknown force. You should know if you are face Orks or Nids or Necrons.
Now Chaos and Dark Eldar are another issue...

"Now Chaos and Dark Eldar are another issue..."

Why are they special?

"Your META has made it so it is hard to have a good "TAC" list"

Eldar can still do it.

"No that is your Definition of "List Tailoring". "

So what is list tailoring to you?

Martel732 wrote:
"Now Chaos and Dark Eldar are another issue..."

Why are they special?

"Your META has made it so it is hard to have a good "TAC" list"

Eldar can still do it.

Chaos and Dark Eldar can either be Summoned or just show up out of the Warp.

Eldar have the 'Stigma" of being broken. And they are in the right hands.

As for my META making TAC so hard, no it is how the game is now. Unless you are reaching the 3k mark it is hard to effectively have enough units (in Redundancy) to counter everything.
The Closest I have come to that is My Plasma SPAM List, but Flyers and AV14 counters that real quick.

Doesn't much matter with BA. If I played in your group, I wouldn't have many good choices anyway. Plus, they'd know I'm BA and bring all anti-meq tech and I'd die. So every game would be like playing Eldar. Hooray.

Martel732 wrote:
Doesn't much matter with BA. If I played in your group, I wouldn't have many good choices anyway. Plus, they'd know I'm BA and bring all anti-meq tech and I'd die. So every game would be like playing Eldar. Hooray.

This is also the big difference between our META's, if you were not having fun we would try to change that by talking to you about what would make the game more fun for YOU.
If this involves Scenarios, Letting you set up the terrain, giving you extra points to work with, what ever it would take.
This does not mean we would take 'Scrub' List, though we just tend to play with what we want to play with that week. We just play to Socialize, Have Fun, Show off out Newest Models and see who picks for the Pizza next week. And pretty much in that order.

Right now we may be taking a page from AoS and have a 'Bring and Battle' where I am going to bring 4 Strenguard, one loaded with Plasma, One With Melta, One with Flamers and one with Grav. With a mix of Stormravens, Land Raiders and maybe some Razorback or Rhinos. I think I am going to be facing buckets of bugs.

I like the comment about yeah if you face me this, and that. Fact is that i dont have to adapt to your Meta, i have to adapt to mine where half plays gun lines (Tau, Crons, SM) And the other half plays MC nids, SW Rhino charge and Spamdar. Only Spamdar is a real problem for me but hey... its a challenge.

But dont worry, i have 2 demi companies with a first company sternguard. Sterns go in pods, Devs go in pods, tacts all go in twin linked lascannon razorbacks and move up. Plenty of threats. My stern and devs are sacrificial lambs to try and take out the high prio targets. Succes or fail, they have enemies in their deployment to deal with which leaves my armoured advance alone for a turn.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Doesn't much matter with BA. If I played in your group, I wouldn't have many good choices anyway. Plus, they'd know I'm BA and bring all anti-meq tech and I'd die. So every game would be like playing Eldar. Hooray.

This is also the big difference between our META's, if you were not having fun we would try to change that by talking to you about what would make the game more fun for YOU.
If this involves Scenarios, Letting you set up the terrain, giving you extra points to work with, what ever it would take.
This does not mean we would take 'Scrub' List, though we just tend to play with what we want to play with that week. We just play to Socialize, Have Fun, Show off out Newest Models and see who picks for the Pizza next week. And pretty much in that order.

Right now we may be taking a page from AoS and have a 'Bring and Battle' where I am going to bring 4 Strenguard, one loaded with Plasma, One With Melta, One with Flamers and one with Grav. With a mix of Stormravens, Land Raiders and maybe some Razorback or Rhinos. I think I am going to be facing buckets of bugs.

Making things for fun BA might be too much of a sacrifice Also, it's hurtful to me to have to rig the game in my favor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
I like the comment about yeah if you face me this, and that. Fact is that i dont have to adapt to your Meta, i have to adapt to mine where half plays gun lines (Tau, Crons, SM) And the other half plays MC nids, SW Rhino charge and Spamdar. Only Spamdar is a real problem for me but hey... its a challenge.

But dont worry, i have 2 demi companies with a first company sternguard. Sterns go in pods, Devs go in pods, tacts all go in twin linked lascannon razorbacks and move up. Plenty of threats. My stern and devs are sacrificial lambs to try and take out the high prio targets. Succes or fail, they have enemies in their deployment to deal with which leaves my armoured advance alone for a turn.

If you face lots of gunlines, pods are awesome. If you play a random grab bag of power builds, they start looking like more of a liability.

Martel732 wrote:
Making things for fun BA might be too much of a sacrifice Also, it's hurtful to me to have to rig the game in my favor.

It has nothing to do with 'Rigging'. It has to do with making sure you are having FUN.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Making things for fun BA might be too much of a sacrifice Also, it's hurtful to me to have to rig the game in my favor.

It has nothing to do with 'Rigging'. It has to do with making sure you are having FUN.

Unfortunately, the handicapping necessary for BA isn't fun for anyone.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Making things for fun BA might be too much of a sacrifice Also, it's hurtful to me to have to rig the game in my favor.

It has nothing to do with 'Rigging'. It has to do with making sure you are having FUN.

Unfortunately, the handicapping necessary for BA isn't fun for anyone.

You may not have to be handicapped, it may just be the situation you are in. The handicap was just part of a list of things we do to make sure ANY person could have a good time, you are reading to much into it.

There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

That being said, it would be fun to have a model left on the table around turn 4.

Martel732 wrote:
There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

We have seen some units are better than other here, but we still use them.
That is another big difference between your META and mine.
If I want to pull out my Ogryn's and Rough Riders I pull them out. We don't spend hours going of states and run our numbers though Mathhammer. We use the 'Rule of Cool' here.
That goes for both The Special Rules and Models.
I play my Sternguard with 8x Combi-Plasma and 2x Plasma Guns because I like how my Kit Bashed Combis look and It is cool to have them jump out of a Stormraven along with an Assault Dred. The fact that they are really effective at killing targets is secondary.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

We have seen some units are better than other here, but we still use them.
That is another big difference between your META and mine.
If I want to pull out my Ogryn's and Rough Riders I pull them out. We don't spend hours going of states and run our numbers though Mathhammer. We use the 'Rule of Cool' here.
That goes for both The Special Rules and Models.
I play my Sternguard with 8x Combi-Plasma and 2x Plasma Guns because I like how my Kit Bashed Combis look and It is cool to have them jump out of a Stormraven along with an Assault Dred. The fact that they are really effective at killing targets is secondary.

Interesting. I wouldn't even know how to build a list with terminators at this point. There's only about 5-7 things I use out of the BA codex at this point.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

We have seen some units are better than other here, but we still use them.
That is another big difference between your META and mine.
If I want to pull out my Ogryn's and Rough Riders I pull them out. We don't spend hours going of states and run our numbers though Mathhammer. We use the 'Rule of Cool' here.
That goes for both The Special Rules and Models.
I play my Sternguard with 8x Combi-Plasma and 2x Plasma Guns because I like how my Kit Bashed Combis look and It is cool to have them jump out of a Stormraven along with an Assault Dred. The fact that they are really effective at killing targets is secondary.

Interesting. I wouldn't even know how to build a list with terminators at this point.

I find it simple, you just put some in your list.
Method A: Build your list around Terminators
Method B: Add them on a current list.

Method B: That is what I did when I started using Sternguard. I dropped a Devistator Squad and an Assault Squad and went from there.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

We have seen some units are better than other here, but we still use them.
That is another big difference between your META and mine.
If I want to pull out my Ogryn's and Rough Riders I pull them out. We don't spend hours going of states and run our numbers though Mathhammer. We use the 'Rule of Cool' here.
That goes for both The Special Rules and Models.
I play my Sternguard with 8x Combi-Plasma and 2x Plasma Guns because I like how my Kit Bashed Combis look and It is cool to have them jump out of a Stormraven along with an Assault Dred. The fact that they are really effective at killing targets is secondary.

Interesting. I wouldn't even know how to build a list with terminators at this point.

I find it simple, you just put some in your list.
Method A: Build your list around Terminators
Method B: Add them on a current list.

Method B: That is what I did when I started using Sternguard. I dropped a Devistator Squad and an Assault Squad and went from there.

Except that I'm conditioned to hate them and never use them, lol. Because they are poor in the game.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, that's exactly what list tailoring is.

All my lists have grav because I don't know when I'm going to need it. This makes Orks a much harder match up for me than you because I don't know to leave the grav guns at home. The Ork list could just have easily been tri-Riptide. In my view, this gives you a skewed view of the effectiveness of Orks compared to how I face Orks.

This reason is why Eldar are so disgusting. They don't have to make these choices because the scatterlaser is so UNIVERSALLY effective.

No that is your Definition of "List Tailoring".
Your META has made it so it is hard to have a good "TAC" list, because such a thing does not exist anymore (as someone put it and I agree).
There is also some logic to how we do it. If Space Mares are about to Assault a Ork force, they are going to leave the Grav at home. Very rarely does one attack a completely unknown force. You should know if you are face Orks or Nids or Necrons.
Now Chaos and Dark Eldar are another issue...

You'd probably still take Grav on a Relentless platform and Grav Cannons because they do things SO well.

 Arth-Rytis wrote:
Do you prefer the drop pod + melta method, taking out tanks at the beginning of the game?
Or
Do you throw in some plasmas and drop in for some anti infantry action?
Or
Do you save your points and rely solely on special ammo?
Or
Have you found some other creative and deadly way to field your Sternguard Veterans?

And by all means, describe any instances where your strategy worked out beautifully. (link some battle reports if you have them.)

For my Sons of Medusa I run five guys, Drop Pod, three combi-plasmas, two plasma guns, LOCATOR BEACON
-Drop in FIRST, erase something, and get chewed up. Also gives me a means of getting characters in without short-changing tactical squads. The Locator beacon on their pod also gives me a possible foothold for the rest of the army.

For my Sons of Antaeus its 10 guys, usually in a Rhino. Two Grav guns and a power weapon generally. I usually run them around with two or more tactical squads to act as secondary infantry clean-up. A lot f people seem to forget that Sternguard have two attacks base. So if I can make them Relentless, not terribly difficult, so that's a wall of gunfire and then thirty attacks on the charge and that hurts. Not as much as Death Company, not as much as Vanguard Veterans, but enough to tip the scales.

I see nothing wrong with a "I'm facing orks and thus I'll take flamers not grav" as others have noted. it's actually pretty realistic. and if still maintains the possiability to suprise.you could end up running into someone running a Great WAAAGH detachment, with a minimum number of 'ardboyz, and the lion's shreof his infantry being Mega armored Nobz (not gonna debate if this is an effective unit or not, just that a SM player might be missing his grav guns if he's facing down 50 2+ armor save Orks.

 Dust wrote:

 Arth-Rytis wrote:
Do you prefer the drop pod + melta method, taking out tanks at the beginning of the game?
Or
Do you throw in some plasmas and drop in for some anti infantry action?
Or
Do you save your points and rely solely on special ammo?
Or
Have you found some other creative and deadly way to field your Sternguard Veterans?

And by all means, describe any instances where your strategy worked out beautifully. (link some battle reports if you have them.)

For my Sons of Medusa I run five guys, Drop Pod, three combi-plasmas, two plasma guns, LOCATOR BEACON
-Drop in FIRST, erase something, and get chewed up. Also gives me a means of getting characters in without short-changing tactical squads. The Locator beacon on their pod also gives me a possible foothold for the rest of the army.

For my Sons of Antaeus its 10 guys, usually in a Rhino. Two Grav guns and a power weapon generally. I usually run them around with two or more tactical squads to act as secondary infantry clean-up. A lot f people seem to forget that Sternguard have two attacks base. So if I can make them Relentless, not terribly difficult, so that's a wall of gunfire and then thirty attacks on the charge and that hurts. Not as much as Death Company, not as much as Vanguard Veterans, but enough to tip the scales.

Red Scorpions can do Relentless Sternguard with that one character that's like 60 points.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Red Scorpions can do Relentless Sternguard with that one character that's like 60 points.

Oh I'm aware. When I was initially structuring and building my Sons of Antaeus I was debating between Red Scorpions and Ultramarines. I ended up going with Ultramarines because it seemed more appropriate given the scant bits of lore that exist for them and how Greek I had gone with some of the modelling and aesthetic choices.

I've thought about a Red Scorpion army though and if I do a Haas Sternguard squad it'll be with heavy weapons, probably multi-meltas or Grav Cannons.

8 combi meltas and 2 heavy flamers in a pod.

BrianDavion wrote:
I see nothing wrong with a "I'm facing orks and thus I'll take flamers not grav" as others have noted. it's actually pretty realistic. and if still maintains the possiability to suprise.you could end up running into someone running a Great WAAAGH detachment, with a minimum number of 'ardboyz, and the lion's shreof his infantry being Mega armored Nobz (not gonna debate if this is an effective unit or not, just that a SM player might be missing his grav guns if he's facing down 50 2+ armor save Orks.

I suppose that's true. It's an interesting play group difference.

Well I'm a bit silly.

I run 5 with 2 grav guns and 2 c-grav, nothing on the sarge. Runs at about 170 points I think.

I usually stuff them in a Razorback and use them as a poor man's carnifex. If people shoot them , fine. Carnifex worked. If they leave them alone... Well...

I realize it's not the best, but its a nice little trick.

 darkcloak wrote:
Well I'm a bit silly.

I run 5 with 2 grav guns and 2 c-grav, nothing on the sarge. Runs at about 170 points I think.

I usually stuff them in a Razorback and use them as a poor man's carnifex. If people shoot them , fine. Carnifex worked. If they leave them alone... Well...

I realize it's not the best, but its a nice little trick.

Why nothing on the Sergeant?

I'd never really considered Sternguard with my Blood Angels (the power armor I play), though my most recent list had them front and center in my battle plans.

I wanted to take advantage of a few HQs that I've had access to, but had not yet really messed around with since the new codex drop: Mephiston and Cypher. Mephiston because he's still pretty great even though he's now a 5T, 3W IC (what a nerfing, huh?), and Cypher because he has a bunch of rules that SEEM to be great, like Shrouding, Hit and Run, and non Gets Hot Plasma shots (2 of em) that Overwatch at full BS (which is 10, for those keeping score), but a price tag that really feels too expensive for where he'll be utilized on the battlefield.

Which is where the Sternguard come in. 7 Sternguard in a drop pod, Led by Mephiston, a Sanguinary Priest, and Cypher, who, hopefully, land in some ruins to do their dirty work so they can take advantage of that sweet, sweet, Shrouding bonus (I guess any cover will do...heck,..even open ground is better than the lot of them normally get considering the unit's lack of an Invul save). The Sternguard could be loaded for bear, but I feel 2 meltaguns and 2 combi-meltas is probably good enough to for this unit, as I'd like them to be able to pop armor if needbe, but their real job will be to wade into and through the opponents infantry, their combination of special rounds, accurate plasma, and force weaponry being able to take on most foes while Hit and Running wherever they need to be.

That's the plan, at least...now I need to convert up a Cypher, maybe even a Mephison (I hate both models), and get some Sternguard in my queue.

Surround them with Guardian Defenders and cut loose with 18 S4 rending shots at BS4 per unit (and before the Starcannon), potentially with re-rolls to hit and/or to wound. If that fails, Psychic Shriek them to death. If that fails, use whatever firepower I have remaining to force the Sternguard to suffer a critical existence failure.

Oh wait, I think I got the wrong idea...

 RazgrizOne wrote:
Personally, I like using them in the Deathwatch Kill-team formation from Warzone : Damnos. It's one captain + 2 or more Sternguard / Vanguard in any combination.

When I choose sternguard, I make them my MC/GMC dedicated killers cause I usually play against Nids or Eldar. With a Drop-pod 2 Grav guns and 1 grav pistol, they strike hard, especially because the formation give them Preferred Enemy (Xenos). I like to stick a Location Beacon on the drop pod so my Tempestus Scions can DS near them and give them support.

I know it's a costly combination but it's very fluffy and I like it. Sometimes, if I play well, my vets can avoid retaliatory fire and then they become even more a pain in the butt for my opponent.

Only issue here is that is an Apoc formation, not a standard 40k formation, like the rest of the book.

I just run them lean, 5 guys with one combi-plasma and a Rhino or Razor. They are very good at clean up and covering a flank.

They look amazing on my shelf


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jimsolo wrote:
8 combi meltas and 2 heavy flamers in a pod.

I'm assuming you combat squad and pop them all first turn... so whatre the flamers for since you shouldn't live to the next one? Just overwatch support?

 Dust wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Well I'm a bit silly.

I run 5 with 2 grav guns and 2 c-grav, nothing on the sarge. Runs at about 170 points I think.

I usually stuff them in a Razorback and use them as a poor man's carnifex. If people shoot them , fine. Carnifex worked. If they leave them alone... Well...

I realize it's not the best, but its a nice little trick.

Why nothing on the Sergeant?

Ran out of grav guns...

Lol no. Actually I just like to keep things cheap. I could have skimped elsewhere and given the Sarge a gun or sword but does he really need it? The whole idea is just to throw out some grav shots and provide a distraction. No point giving the Sarge anything since he is really just another model in the unit. Sure he can take melee weapons but in a unit full of guns, why? I got a bunch of honour guard. I'm okay.

What about a 1st Company Task Force with 3 ten man sternguard squads, all in drop pods, using only special ammo.

5 in a pod. 2 melta guns, 3 combi-meltas.

Melta-cide. Not long for this world, but usually blow something the feth up.

I've been considering doing a counts-as Sternguard Deathwatch squad. I figure they match the closest with the special ammo and all. I was thinking of doing a grav squad, since my CF use a plasma squad and a melta squad already and fluff-wise grav would be great for killing Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes, MegaNobz and other assorted Xenos monstrosities. Thoughts?

I run a 9 man squad with 3 of them carrying combi-plasma in a Drop Pod. Drop them in on turn 1 to take out my opponent's Warlord/Big Scary monster or hard hitting infantry unit. If your opponent fields daemon princes, bloodthirsters or any other MC, then sternguard are a good way of taking them out early in the game before they can get near your army. I take that many as I use them in my Crimson Fists force as Pedro Kantor gives all Sternguard Obj Secured. Due to their numbers (and my other stuff that needs to be dealt with), they usually stay alive for a couple of turns at least and make a real nuisance of themselves. Plus because they are a bigger unit, they will tie up my opponent when he makes the inevitable revenge assault from me taking out his precious snowflake unit.

 Slaphead wrote:
I run a 9 man squad with 3 of them carrying combi-plasma in a Drop Pod. Drop them in on turn 1 to take out my opponent's Warlord/Big Scary monster or hard hitting infantry unit. If your opponent fields daemon princes, bloodthirsters or any other MC, then sternguard are a good way of taking them out early in the game before they can get near your army. I take that many as I use them in my Crimson Fists force as Pedro Kantor gives all Sternguard Obj Secured. Due to their numbers (and my other stuff that needs to be dealt with), they usually stay alive for a couple of turns at least and make a real nuisance of themselves. Plus because they are a bigger unit, they will tie up my opponent when he makes the inevitable revenge assault from me taking out his precious snowflake unit.

You've had more luck with plasma vs grav weapons?

Also, since you're worried about the inevitable assault, have you tried giving the sergeant a power weapon or attaching an IC to the squad?

 minigun762 wrote:

 Slaphead wrote:
I run a 9 man squad with 3 of them carrying combi-plasma in a Drop Pod. Drop them in on turn 1 to take out my opponent's Warlord/Big Scary monster or hard hitting infantry unit. If your opponent fields daemon princes, bloodthirsters or any other MC, then sternguard are a good way of taking them out early in the game before they can get near your army. I take that many as I use them in my Crimson Fists force as Pedro Kantor gives all Sternguard Obj Secured. Due to their numbers (and my other stuff that needs to be dealt with), they usually stay alive for a couple of turns at least and make a real nuisance of themselves. Plus because they are a bigger unit, they will tie up my opponent when he makes the inevitable revenge assault from me taking out his precious snowflake unit.

You've had more luck with plasma vs grav weapons?

Also, since you're worried about the inevitable assault, have you tried giving the sergeant a power weapon or attaching an IC to the squad?

I have had really good luck with Plasma yes. My regular opponent fields mainly CSM's and daemons. Sorry, I forgot to mention that my sergeant has a power fist which I hide in the middle of the unit. Grav is awesome, but I decided to go for plasma on that unit as I just plasma weapons (that's the Dark Angels player in me influencing it). I've had great success against Chaos Space Marines and a Daemon Prince with them and they are really quite handy at tying other units up in combat if need me.

I use the First company Task force with 3 units of sternguard in drop pods 2 armed with grav cannons and the third with a heavy flamer. All non heavy are armed with combi-melta.

Basically a Deathwatch army. I usually use Imperial Fists Tactics.

I use Lias Issodon as my commander. He brings the Raptors Chapter Tactics to the game, granting Scout and Stealth on the first turn and allowing Bolter-armed units to fire Rending Sniper Rounds when necessary. Needless to say, this is an excellent force multiplier for your Sternguard, especially when you consider Issodon's own buffed bolter, which can also fire the Sternguard specialist rounds.

However, the real strength of Issodon is in his Warlord Trait. He comes automatically with the Master of Ambush trait, which allows him to infiltrate D3 units (and himself), as well as granting Shrouded to the squad he joins. This means he will always be able to infiltrate at least one unit. All for a tidy 190pts.

If you ask me, there is no better way to use your Sternguard than Infiltrating them onto a mid-field objective with Shrouded (and Invisibility, if you commit a lucky Librarian to them as well) and daring the enemy to come and take it from you.

 Spineyguy wrote:
I use Lias Issodon as my commander. He brings the Raptors Chapter Tactics to the game, granting Scout and Stealth on the first turn and allowing Bolter-armed units to fire Rending Sniper Rounds when necessary. Needless to say, this is an excellent force multiplier for your Sternguard, especially when you consider Issodon's own buffed bolter, which can also fire the Sternguard specialist rounds.

However, the real strength of Issodon is in his Warlord Trait. He comes automatically with the Master of Ambush trait, which allows him to infiltrate D3 units (and himself), as well as granting Shrouded to the squad he joins. This means he will always be able to infiltrate at least one unit. All for a tidy 190pts.

If you ask me, there is no better way to use your Sternguard than Infiltrating them onto a mid-field objective with Shrouded (and Invisibility, if you commit a lucky Librarian to them as well) and daring the enemy to come and take it from you.

I'll come take it Also, an ignore cover grav cent squad will make you very, very sad.

Martel732 wrote:
I'll come take it Also, an ignore cover grav cent squad will make you very, very sad.

Well, if we're going to start a game one one-upmanship then of course the Centurions will win. The Librarian and Raptors tactics will help to an extent, but I wouldn't expect the Sternguard to hold that objective alone against that kind of enemy.

Normally trying 20 of them. 10-5-5. 3 Drop Pods. Using the formation, giving them Fear, Fearless, and preferred enemy against something plus the -2 LD effect.

10 man and one of the 5 first turn Drop in and combat squad. other 5 man deployed on table normally.

If Heavy Flamers were FREE upgrade, I would take them in one squad. Also Might equip one squad with 3-4 Meltas if my list was lacking anti tank that badly, but I see the combi-weapons on these guys as a waste of points overall in a competitive setting since there are other units in the dex that can kill vehicles without wasting other specialty weapons that I've already paid for in the base model cost.

 Spineyguy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'll come take it Also, an ignore cover grav cent squad will make you very, very sad.

Well, if we're going to start a game one one-upmanship then of course the Centurions will win. The Librarian and Raptors tactics will help to an extent, but I wouldn't expect the Sternguard to hold that objective alone against that kind of enemy.

Just pointing out that I think they are wasted camping objectives.

Martel732 wrote:
Just pointing out that I think they are wasted camping objectives.

Well that's the reason for the Infiltrate. This isn't camping in the traditional sense (I have Scouts for that), I generally put my Sternguard on the closest available objective to the enemy, so they can open fire as soon as possible.

One thing I forgot to mention is that Lias Issodon also has a Locator Beacon. I don't know why he'd just be carrying one around, but it does mean that he can be bringing in Flyers, Land Speeders, Assault Squads and Drop Pods from Turn 1.

Drop Pod 25 Salamander Veterans down first turn in 3 out of my 5 pods. With minimal scatter can cut off and take out key enemy units before opponent gets to use them. Favorite placement was behind enemy unit of 10 Chaos Marines. Disembarked in a straight firing line and with Sgt. plasma pistol shot, 2 HF, and 7 combi-flamers was able to get 43 hits, and with Salamander chapter tactics roll 35 wounds. All 10 Chaos Marines were tabled.

10 Sternguard: Sgt. w/plasma pistol/chainsword, 2 Heavy flamers, 7 combi flamers

10 Sternguard: Sgt. w/plasma pistol/chainsword, 9 combi-meltas

5 Sternguard: Sgt. w/plasma pistol/power sword, 1 Heavy flamer, 3 combi-flamers.