Update: KM have recently released both a Spiderman and Marvel Universe miniatures game, feel free to discuss those here as well!
Seems to have been a spike in interest in this game recently, at least in the P&M section, so I figured we ought to have a general discussion thread for it. Nothing specific, so go wild with game talk, mini discussion/showing off, proposed rules and anything else you fancy discussing about the Batman Miniatures Game!
I'll also be compiling something of a beginners guide here in the OP once I've got a bit more experience, but for now, here's some handy links. If anyone has any other good resources I'll add them in.
Anyway, to get some discussion going, I'll start with a bit of wishlisting, models I'd really like to see:
From Arkham, The Arkham Knight/AK Scarecrow and associated goons, Azreal as a Free Agent with Affinity: Batman, Oracle, perhaps?
From Arrow/Flash, Alt League of Assassins stuff, The Dark Archer, Captain Cold, Captain Boomerang, Diggle, Al-Sahim Arrow, Atom, Firestorm, rules for Flash and other metahumans! (More on that below)
In general: more goon sets for various bands, a few different crew options like a Suicide Squad list in the vein of the Court of Owls/Watchmen, a way to run Red Hood and Arsenal together as Outlaws, a way to run a mostly full Bat Family without house rules ect.
What do you want to see?
And on the note of super/metahumans in BMG, I know it's a rather hotly debated issue but personally I think there's scope to include some of the less powerful ones with ease. So far, the best human stats sit around 150 points, guys like Deathstroke and Big Bane, but I think that by pushing up to 180-220 points you could easily make characters like Atom, Firestorm, Starfire or even Flash himself work. Such models would take up over half a list, and could still only be in one place at once, so there's a balancing factor already, and I think they'd add a lot to the game. You'd need to play them well and you'd always be at a numeric disadvantage, but such teams would play very differently to anyone already out.
I also like the idea of making these powers high-AC-Cost abilities, so it would be a choice whether to use them or fight normally. Flash, for instance, could come with Acrobat as a base trait, but any real super-speed would be something like 2MC/2AC to move anywhere he can see (so 30cm normally), leaving only a couple of AC for attack and defence. Again, this balances nicely, he can be quick but hit softly, or slow down to fight better. Thoughts?
Anyway, have at it! Hopefully we can get some discussion going and drum up some more intereste!
Of note, critskillpeople is also building a wiki for BMG, which is viewable now in sort of a beta mode. Pretty much everything is up there, it just hasn't been gone over with the fine toothed comb yet and the FAQ hasn't been totally integrated.
I'm really hoping that this month or the next gives us a Mr. Freeze gang starter. Killer Frost as a sidekick got me really excited and I'd like to see it take a step further. A $0 modified version of Mr. Freeze to lead would be nice.
I think supers may be a slippery slope, but I could see them pulling off "young" versions of some of them, where their powers aren't fully mastered/harnessed/awakened.
A Freeze gang would be cool, what you you envision as henchmen, though? Just the generic Blackgate/Arkham lot, or something specific? He seemed to be working solo in Arkham City.
I see what you mean about the 'slippery slope' for supers, so far the game is great at keeping basic henchmen important and I wouldn't want anything to take away from that. I do think there's room for models costing up to 200-ish points, lower level/tech based heroes and villains rather than anyone like Superman/WW/Doomsday or anything.
I'm currently loving this game, Have quite a few gangs, just need to find more local players now to enjoy it against, have found 1 regular guy and hopefully another.
Duce, do you have a chance to run demo games? The gameplay is so nice that (combined with the fact it's freaking Batman!) it shouldn't be hard to get some interest in your local store/club. That and the fact you really can play full games for less than some 40k squads cost!
Another question while we wait for this month's releases (according to the BMG forum, they've been delayed a bit due to rewrites and a warehouse move), what are your guys favourite gangs to run?
Personally, I'm liking Bane a lot more than I thought I would. Once you realise how well the game represents his tactical ability as well as his combat skills, he's really thematic. Scheming and the Veteran trait on most models makes him super-flexible (so perhaps a good one for beginners if you're demoing) and the bulletproof vests on most Mercs are handy to say the least!
Nightwing is probably my favourite character so far, though, he just hits so hard and fast! Acrobat, M3 and a Batclaw to get around, and then Att4 and Combo with a Handy, Mechanic weapon with the magic 2 damage, he's just awesome!
In the Arkham origins dlc,, Cold Cold heart, Freeze does indeed run with his own gang which includes new 1 or 2 new game mechanics for is gang members. This includes a cold beam that freezes you unless you dodge over it.
However it would seem to be an unusual choice to go back to Arkham origins for material right now. I do imagine the next starter releases we will see will either involve the Arkham Knight, Scarecrow or the Arkham militia.
Compel wrote: In the Arkham origins dlc,, Cold Cold heart, Freeze does indeed run with his own gang which includes new 1 or 2 new game mechanics for is gang members. This includes a cold beam that freezes you unless you dodge over it.
Hmm, that's likely to show up, then. AK Bats has a Disruptor that disaables Weapons with the 'Firearm' or 'Beam' type, and currently the latter doesn't exist. So I'd guess Freeze and co would be the first (only?) Faction to get access to 'Beam' weapons.
However it would seem to be an unusual choice to go back to Arkham origins for material right now. I do imagine the next starter releases we will see will either involve the Arkham Knight, Scarecrow or the Arkham militia.
Agreed. Personally I'm hoping for Scarecrow as a Leader and the Knight as a capable sidekick (as in, 85+ points, WP7, similar in ability to someone like Nightwing, Red Hood or even Sidekick Arrow) so you can run them both together without house rules.
Hopefully we get something like this:
Scarecrow starter with militia
Knight blister
Blister with Minigunner and maybe Martial Artist/Drone Controller/Other militia type
I can see the faction being pretty shooty, and there's plenty of stuff to include from the game. Perhaps the Stealth armour that could cancel 'Total Vision', or even a Medic (there's a precedent with Alfred) could be cool.
I can almost see the Militia being Elite, so you'd need the Knight to take multiples, while Scarecrow has the generic gas-masked guys in his starter.
I can't wait to actually see this month's releases! The Riddler we've seen doesn't do much for me, but I am desperate to get a look at Azreal and the AK Red Hood (wonder which version that'll be, pre or post main game quest? ). Both of those might well be instant buys for me unless the sculpts are poor.
Azreal should be bringing some nice up-close Blood damage to the Bat-team, hopefully in Free Agent as I don't want to have to pick between him and Nightwing!
For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, this month's releases are:
AK Harley Thugs 1
Riddler and Robots
Robots set 1
AK Red Hood
AK Azreal
Hugo Strange and Arkham Inmates
drazz wrote: Busy month at Knight Models. I'll put up cards later if anyone wants to see them.
Red Hood
Harley Thugs
Bat Signal
Azrael
Rocket Raccoon
Riddler Bots
Hugo Strange and Inmates
And cards:
Spoiler:
Azrael:
Red Hood:
Strange:
Inmates
Joker/Harley Thugs:
Riddler
Riddler Bots:
Liking the look of Azrael and Hood. At some point, I can see myself making a post-retirement 'Batman' crew with Red Hood, Az, Nightwing and Tim! Could be pretty kickass!
One thing I'd like to see is the completion of the future gangs (Mr. Freeze, Mad Hatter, etc) instead of the trickling out of more FAs and Henchmen. But I understand why they do it that way.
I'm currently running Ivy w/ Harley, Deadshot, and Clayface rotating as my FAs and just the 1st Blackgate Prisoner henchmen. I also have Swamp Thing, but have yet to play him (the local meta had been inactive for a couple months, but is now picking back up again the past week or 2), so I'm REALLY looking forward to making some Swampy lists...somehow...(i hate plants, but I try to be faithful to fluff).
I am a bit torn on what I want my 2nd gang to be. It's between DKR Bane, GCPD, Organized Crime, or a Batman-less Batman gang (led by Nightwing and Red Hood). I'm kinda leaning towards the Batman-less Batman gang, maybe GCPD (there'll probably be carry over anyway), since I already have a "bad guy" gang. Though, I can always play my bad guy gang as good guys (Swamp Thing as leader, henchmen as over-zealous treehuggers?). Organized Crime will probably NOT be picked, but I do love Bane quite a bit...
Well, they did do that with Riddler this month, so I expect we'll see Freeze (the Killer Frost release suggests it's coming sooner rather than later) and Scarecrow (AK tie-in) in the near future. Hatter there's no sign of, and he didn't feature on AK so I guess he might be a bit longer in coming. Organised Crime is an odd one at the moment, I expect we'll see Falcons/Moroni/maybe the Triad making an appearance there, but when is anyone's guess.
I'm pretty sure you can fit the Fab Four of Robins into a standard 300 Rep list. Nightwing+(original) Red Hood+AK Drake+Damien Wayne is 297 from memory), and you could swap in Huntress/Azrael/Canary/Batgirl/Catwoman easily enough if you wanted an all-hero goo guy list with no Batman. Or yeah, you can grow a Batman/Law gang at the same time. Start with, say, Gordon+SWAT, a cop blister and Batgirl and you can then go in either direction.
I can thoroughly recommend Bane! His starter is great value considering you get a 'big' guy in there, and can all be used by League as well which is nice. I'm not sure whether I prefer Origins or DKR Bane, though, as while DKR's Insensitive and Kill Them traits and higher Def are nice, Scheming is awesome on Origins Bane, and he gains a lot from being Large (no pesky knockdowns!) His Henchmen are wicked too, Assault Rifle with Night Vision goggles keeps even the toughest heroes on their toes.
I'm pretty sure you can fit the Fab Four of Robins into a standard 300 Rep list. Nightwing+(original) Red Hood+AK Drake+Damien Wayne is 297 from memory), and you could swap in Huntress/Azrael/Canary/Batgirl/Catwoman easily enough if you wanted an all-hero goo guy list with no Batman. Or yeah, you can grow a Batman/Law gang at the same time. Start with, say, Gordon+SWAT, a cop blister and Batgirl and you can then go in either direction.
Yeah, I'm a big DC comic reader and I'm trying to stay faithful to characters I like. Which means no Catwoman or Tim Drake lol. But w/ Azrael available now, it definitely changes my consideration and gives me more choices of characters I like. BC is one of my faves, Huntress is meh, but I'm willing to use her. Either way, if I stick to Nightwing and Red Hood (comics) as my leaders and have BC, Damian, AK Red Hood, and Azrael as my FAs, I don't think I'll pretty much be too far from/over 300 or 350 w/o having to sub in or use some GCPD/SWAT. Which is fine by me. I just need to plan my purchases carefully! =D
edit: My 2nd gang is a ways away anyway. I need to get lots of Swampy list games in in the mean time! If I'm lucky, I'll play 2~3 times a month... And I wanna focus on Swampy for at least my next handful of games!
Just a question, how effective is Batman AK + Nightwing + Robin AC + Red Hood AK as a team? I'm looking at starting the game up, but if that isn't a really effective group, I'm not really gonna bother that much. Also, does anyone know if there's any gaming scene in Australia for this game? I'd like to be able to play against different people as well as my friends, but I'm unsure if there is anywhere already started up.
I've been doing pretty well with AK Bats, AC Robin and Nightwing (with a cop or two until I pick up Hood and/or Az). That said, it's a setup that will take some practice, I lost my first few games with it pretty badly until I figured out how to play them.
You need to be ballsy with all-hero teams, and especially when it's just 3 models. Set up early attacks with Bats/Nightwing while Robin goes objective grabbing, use rooftops/Batclawing to make sure you can pounce on any straggling henchmen, and to get back to safety once you have taken down a guy or two. Try not to get Bats stuck in fights with tough enemies; as cool as a 4-turn brawl between two heavy hitters can be, you're better off using your mobility to hit exposed henchmen or unguarded objectives rather than piling in on someone like Titan Bane or Ra's.
The hero team is definitely very fun, though, and effective once you get a measure of each model's ability and get them working together.
Just be aware that unless we get a cheaper Nightwing at some point, getting Robin, Nightwing, Hood and Bats in one team is going to be tricky. You might be able to manage it with Miller Bats at 350, but until then you're probably going to have to pick and choose.
Ok so you guys have convinced me to bite the bullet and dive in, but I have one more question before I make my first order. How expensive is postage, and how long does it usually take? I've found that the models themselves are well within my price range, but if the postage is ridiculously expensive I'll wait until I can grab the other 2 I need for my crew.
I'm pretty sure Free Agents can't take upgrades, so I don't think Deadshot can have the extra ammo. Other than that it looks good, and you've got nice redundancy. Two heavy hitters, two shooters, three finishers/grabbers.
Let me know what you think of the Venom thug, I've got one on the way but it might be a while before I can get him on the table.
If you can afford a Batclaw, I'd give it to the Venom thug. The ability to grapple up to rooftops to fight would be a good way to deter Batman and friends who can otherwise zip around with relative impunity and be sure of the first strike.
I've no real experience with Law, but it looks pretty effective. A good mix and plenty of bodies.
Nah, it's $300, sadly, so you'd need to drop the extra ammo or NVGs on Dallas to fit it in.
Personally I'd still try it, though. Best case scenario, Dallas gets an Ammo Crate to sit on, worse case he only gets two shots with the best gun in the game and unlimited range, so is still a major threat and more than capable of dropping a couple of models.
On the subject of lists, I was thinking of this one last night:
Nightwing
Batgirl
AC Robin (Drake)
Black Canary
Huntress
Two Robins, three Birds of Prey. As I mentioned before, I love all hero teams, but I'm sure there'll be a time I don't want Batman himself. Against larger crews like Joker, Law or Black Mask I foresee this being a little more effective than my 3-model Batman-led crew, able to cover more ground and with a bit more redundancy, and quite a bit of nice synergy. Canary Cry to allow Nightwing an unimpeded beat down, Huntress for ranged support, Batgirl for some mid range and combat support, Drake foot objective running.
It'll be a good while before I have all those minis, but this team is definitely on my list now!
Again, the problem is that only henchmen, not FAs or Sidekicks, can take upgrades. I'm more of a rule of cool player, though, so don't mind not having spent all the $. It might not be optimal, but if it's fun I ain't complaining!
Not a huge fan of Catwoman as a character, hence why I put Drake in, but yeah, that list is probably more fluffy.
Aha, I see now. Yeah, that could certainly help. My plan with Robin and Loot, though, is usually just to grab the Loot then take a couple of turns Batclawing to Ammo or Titan, then just sit there and rack up VP until I really need him in the fight.
There is some interest in this game at my club. I'm not really a Batman fan but it looks fun so I'm going to pick up some models for it but I'd like to keep the price down. I've decided on the Joker as no one else was considering him and he's the villain I am most familiar with.
The points value my club was going to start with is around 200 points. If I get the Joker starter and either Arkham Harley or Clown Set 1 I'll get into that range. Any recommendations? I read that the Joker is a swarm gang but I'd like to start off with a sidekick.
Joker is definitely a decent crew for a beginner, the Kaos Agent rule he has means that you won't be punished if you mess up your dice allocation (and you will, until you get the hang of the game, it's a bit of a learning curve) as you can just re-allocate when you activate. Starting out, it's a safety net, once you get good it's lethal!
Tactically I'd recommend the clown set over Harley at this stage. The Shotgun and the Axe are both high-damage weapons that would add a lot of punch, and with Joker, the more guys you have the better. The other option I'd suggest is the Titan clown, having a big, tough brawler like that would be handy if you go up against weaker Sidekicks/Agents, and gives you at least something that can put hurt on someone like Batman or little Bane, and take at least a few hits back.
Of the two, though, I think the clowns offer more. Either set 1 for a pair of fast-ish threatening weapons, or set 2 to get a Shield guy to defend an objective and an Assault Rifle that basically creates a 30cm bubble of 'come into my line of sight and you are dead!'
My wife picked up the rule book as soon as it came out. We only got round to playing the other week. Spent the whole day playing games
I have a tom hardy bane crew and my wife has heath ledger joker and harly (plus a few clowns). She spent the last 3 rounds of one game beating the gak out of TNT. He had Harly smacking him with a bat and 2 clowns kicking him whilst he was down (she was loving it). Poor rolls kept him alive but knocked down.
She won that game, but the next one saw bane tear through most her crew.
It's easily the most fun skirmish game we have played.
Can't get there myself this year, hopefully next time though! I'd love to see some pics from those of you going to the various events! Good luck to you in the tournaments.
And from the official to the totally unofficial, I now have a way to make character cards based on the proper design. First I'm working on Starfire to run with Arsenal and Red Hood (Outlaws for the win!), but does anyone have any characters they want stat cards done up for? I'm going to try and come up with something for the various members of the Arrow cast, and a few from the various animated movies (Sons of Batman from 'The Dark Knight Returns' are definitely on my list, a way to pad Bat-crews without cops), but these are quick enough to do that I can pretty much do whoever.
Any interest in cards for the appropriate Marvel characters? The likes of Spidey, Daredevil, Elektra and Punisher could definitely fit here, and who doesn't want to see Wolverine take on the League of Shadows?
My stuff came today. Not a single piece fits together well, it's going to be a pain assembling them.
In particular this piece (Shotgun guy) seems the worst. The arms and body don't fit together..
It didn't seem to quite match the picture and looking online it seems to be the assault rifle guys body. Asking here to double check before I email for a replacement.
durecellrabbit wrote: My stuff came today. Not a single piece fits together well, it's going to be a pain assembling them.
In particular this piece (Shotgun guy) seems the worst. The arms and body don't fit together..
It didn't seem to quite match the picture and looking online it seems to be the assault rifle guys body. Asking here to double check before I email for a replacement.
What kind of minis do you usually work with? If you aren't used to metal, then it can be quite intimidating trying to get the pieces together. Get yourself a decent set of modelling files and with a bit of trial and error, you should get the pieces fitting relatively snug.
I was the same with Guild Ball minis recently, but I found they just needed a bit of work.
Try asking on the official batman forums, you'll have a bigger audience. KM's sculpts aren't very sharp so they don't always fit together well, on the other hand, they aren't exactly stellar in the QA department so a mispack is about equally as likely as a model that doesn't quite fit together.
Found a thread on the Batman forums with pictures, I definitely got the wrong part. I emailed KM about it and got a reply this morning saying they'll send the correct part.
Managed to get 3 models done over the weekend. The other 2 are filed and waiting to be pinned and have the gaps fixed with greenstuff. Other than the connection side of the parts being awful the rest of the sculpts are good.
Thanks to the crew that ran it for all the help they've provided to use newbies getting into the game! Hopefully something new will come along to fill the void soon!
That's a shame. I spent a while in bat builder looking at ll the option before I decided to get into the game and had chosen a gang.
Got my replacement part from KM yesterday.
edit: This might be a stupid question but I don't know much about Batman. Are the named henchmen actual named characters from comics/games/movies? For example Triston the shotgun clown or August the axe clown. I'd like to try some varied skintones but don't want to change any real characters.
yeah, RIP Bat-Builder. Luckily an app is currently being worked on. But I definitely liked using it not to build w/ what I already have, but to project lists on future purchases/gangs. Luckily I had already come up w/ a purchase list for a Batman gang that gave me 250, 300, 350 lists and I'm pretty sure I memorized it lol.
durecellrabbit wrote: edit: This might be a stupid question but I don't know much about Batman. Are the named henchmen actual named characters from comics/games/movies? For example Triston the shotgun clown or August the axe clown. I'd like to try some varied skintones but don't want to change any real characters.
Nah, none of the henchmen are real characters in the comics except Alfred obviously. However, some of ones for the major villains are in the Arkham video games.
Yeah, Bat-Builder was awesome. - I think the most essential part of it is actually the 'planning out purchases' component. I can imagine people getting pretty disappointed if, say, they get Catwoman as a generic free agent, only to find she can't be used in Two-Face gangs.
In order to learn more Batman background I picked up the first 3 Arkham games on a recent Steam sale for ~£10 total. With my poor internet it took forever to download but the games are really good. I can definitely see parts of the games in the rules in addition to the models.
I feel pretty good about my choice of gang, Joker is a great villain in the games. There are also a bunch of free agent villains that I didn't know of before like Killer Croc and Copperhead that are now on my wishlist.
I'm almost done painting my first bunch of models but I'm on the difficult part of painting Arkham logos on T-shirts and Joker's suit stripes. Unfortunately the computer games are proving to be just a bit of a distraction.
Yeah, the Arkham Games are excellent and the way BMG takes elements of them is something that impressed me a lot. And those games are probably my favourite of Mark Hamill's (yes, Luke Skywalker is the Joker for those who didn't know!) turns as The Clown Prince of Crime. The guy in Origins is pretty good as well.
Looking forward to seeing these painted models, I may be working on some Joker stuff myself soon!
The Arkham games were the first IP that Knight Models had in regard to the Batman line. You can see it running throughout the line of models for the past two years. Hell, the whole set of releases from last month were from Arkham Knight.
Its interesting (to me anyway) to watch them expand on the IP ranges that they get access to. 1960's Batman? At least the one. Frank Miller's Batman? Yep. But what about others from those lines?
And its been a firm NO so far for models from the 1980/90's movies, so no Nickelson Joker or Arnold Freeze.
Yeah, there's some kind of licencing issue with the 90s stuff. I'd love to see some more stuff based on Miller's run, especially some stuff from Dark Knight Returns like a Carrie Kelly Robin or some Sons of Batman (as non-cop Henchmen for a Bat-crew). You could add Mutants as Affiliate:Unknown Henchmen for the bad guy crews, as their allegiance changes rather fluidly.
I just recently got into this because Im into batman and saw that someone in the swap shop had some court of owls stuff they were trading. I now have the court of owls (starter I guess?) set and the Butcher, plus some tokens.
I have not had the chance to play yet as Im still working on painting them but they look amazing. Well they are amazing now that I have cleaned them up and got them together, these were the worst miniatures Ive dealt with as far as not fitting and excess flash, Ive never used so much green stuff just trying to get a miniature to look how it does on the box. Honestly, now that everything is together I am really happy with it but my home may have been filled with some serious cursing as I was assembling these. My profile pic is my first completed one!
That's a common complaint. Its not really excusable, but the Knight Models company is literally something like 5 people. They make some great sculpts, the rules set is coming together nicely.
But, yeah, the models seem to have issues: fit is often off and detail gets dull. I have had some suspect ones. I do know they have a good replacement policy, though it takes some time. Again, small staff and international travel.
Randomly is there any other places bar the official forums and the FBook groups where you can search for more local players? I'm still trying to find more people to play against.
The new releases have helped spur this on and I want one of each new mini
Not that I'm aware of. Your best bet would probably be to try and demo it at your local club or store if you have one, try and drum up some interest that way. The game definitely seems to be gaining some traction in recent months, so hopefully you'll find some willing recruits or even someone who already plays!
And for the sake of completeness, here's the first of this month's new releases, a Scarecrow gang (which I want right bloody now, thanks KM!)
Also coming this month are the Arkham Knight (hell yeah!), a Militia brute for the crew above and a Mad Hatter crew box (which I'm not too fussed about as I hate the character, but I know quite a few people have been wanting this one for a while!)
Paradigm wrote: That's some lovely work right there! Your orange and purple tones are great, and the Clown masks look awesome!
Thank you
Duce wrote: Randomly is there any other places bar the official forums and the FBook groups where you can search for more local players? I'm still trying to find more people to play against.
The new releases have helped spur this on and I want one of each new mini
If you get one of each mini then you'll have enough stuff to loan an gang out and try and find interested players that way!
In the absence of Bat-builder, I've started putting together 'codexes' that are collating all a faction's cards in one place (with some cool pics to boot!), not that useful in-game but it should help for list-building and comparing stats.
It really is good to have all these together, Paradigm.
One of the trickier things with the game is, if you go out to buy a model, you can potentially get caught out by what sides they be in.
I can, for example, imagine over the course of the game so far, that a few people would be annoyed to find out that Catwoman and Two-Face can't be in the same crew if they bought them at the same time.
Agreed, especially now Bat-builder is gone. I wish Knight would just organise their site properly so you could search by faction, but in the mean time, I'm more than happy to keep putting these together. Feel free to share them with your gaming group, or any other forums or such you're on that could use them!
Thanks. Is scanning better quality images allowed? When I get some more Joker models I could do that.
Got some random questions.
What do others use to look after their stat cards? I was thinking of getting them laminated.
One of my friends says he's getting the Flash. How does that work? Only watched the Flash TV show but he seems a lot stronger than most of the Batman characters.
What do others use for the table base? The green cloth we usually use or the fake grass gardening mat I found at Aldi don't quite suit the city theme.
If you fancy contributing some good quality scans then I'll certainly use them!
To be honest I've found the cards sturdy enough not to need laminating, but that does have the added advantage of being able to write in them in marker pen to track damage or ammo ect.
There are currently no rules for The Flash (as much as I'd love there to be and think he could be balanced). I've got a few ideas for him actually, and access to a blank card template, so if you/your friend fancy giving some Flash House Rules a go then let me know and I'll get that typed up!
Can't help on the city board, though I plan to make one one day for now just use a cardboard sheet.
At the start of his activation every round, place him anywhere on the board.
But... Give him 0 Movement points. - Yes, 0. Which means, no loot or objective interaction-ey hijinks. Presumably, anything 'The Flash' could have speedster'ed away, he would have done so before the game began.
Moderately low will power (as he doesn't need MC), high defence, but low endurance (when you hit him, you potentially *really* hit him - Just pulling that off is the hard part). Lots of attacks, but low strength.
That was largely in line with my thinking. I would put some restriction on his power. something like this was what I had in mind (and bear in mind I imagine him to be about 225 points, so that TV Arrow and TV Flash are a crew all by themselves)
Combo with Unarmed
Sustained Defence (combo for Defence, for those who don't know. Ra's has it)
Acrobat
Total Vision (to represent his super-speed perception
Speed Force (3SC, 1MC): Move this model any distance in a straight line. This line may not pass through terrain, obstacles, or other models, and may not cross gaps or change levels. For the remainder of this turn, this model has a Defence stat of 6. He may spend no other MC this turn, although he may spend AC and DC as usual. If this model is holding a Loot counter, it may not use this ability.
Supersonic Punch (3SC, 2AC, 1MC): Move this model at least 30cm in a straight line, which may not pass through terrain, obstacles, or other models, and may not cross gaps or change levels; this move must end in base contact with an enemy model. Make a single Attack against that model with the profile above, against which DC may not be used. If this attack misses, The Flash takes 2xStun damage.
So basically you give him the choice; be anywhere, and hit slightly harder than a basic henchmen at best, forgo the speed to lay a beating on someone or grab an objective, or go double or quits with the Supersonic Punch (which can't ever be used if he's taken more than 2 hits). Needs some refining, as this is the first time I've actually written these ideas down, but that's broadly the direction I'd go with this.
Paradigm wrote: Agreed, especially now Bat-builder is gone. I wish Knight would just organise their site properly so you could search by faction
agreed 100%. Fair or not, my interest in BMG has plummeted since Bat-Builder went down. Lack of army-building/purchasing/organizing resources by KM is something they should've done a while ago. But to be honest, once I get my Blackgate Prisoners 2 set in the mail, I'll probably be real eager to play again lol.
Here's the remainder of this month's releases, and associated cards:
Scarecrow and Militia:
Cards:
Spoiler:
Hatter and cards we've seen.
The Arkham Knight (hell yeah, this is beautiful!
Card:
Spoiler:
Black Widow Talia Al Ghul
Spoiler:
Affiliate LexCorp? Interrresting...
Militia Brute:
Spoiler:
And other bits:
Love the Knight mini, he's a definite buy for sure. Kind of annoying you can't run him with Deathstroke thanks to the 'Arrogant' rule, but makes sense in fluff terms. And he's super-shooty, almost like he's an evil version of The Red Hood...
Perhaps the most interesting thing there, though, is Talia's affiliate: Lexcorp! Wonder where that's going (and if we can get an armoured Lex Luthor mini in the game, then bring it on!)
Paradigm wrote: If you fancy contributing some good quality scans then I'll certainly use them!
To be honest I've found the cards sturdy enough not to need laminating, but that does have the added advantage of being able to write in them in marker pen to track damage or ammo ect.
There are currently no rules for The Flash (as much as I'd love there to be and think he could be balanced). I've got a few ideas for him actually, and access to a blank card template, so if you/your friend fancy giving some Flash House Rules a go then let me know and I'll get that typed up!
Can't help on the city board, though I plan to make one one day for now just use a cardboard sheet.
I'll see if he wants to use Flash after finding out he has no rules. He might just skip him given how many other models he's bought before we've played the game.
Did a test image. I resized it a little bit to reduce the file size but this is about the quality they'll all be at. I have 5 other cards and when my order arrives I'll have another 5.
Spoiler:
I think I like the Wonderland Gang most out of this month's releases. The Lampost set is also nice but I've already ordered one of the older ones.
Quick rule question. Am I reading the rules correctly that Joker's total vision gives him LOS of the entire board so he can use his explosive teeth on anything that gets within 40cm of him?
Total Vision allows you to see the whole board, yes. He can set his teeth after anyone on the board, but must still draw a line between the models. One of the Batman models has Total Vision AND Remote Control, allowing him to shoot around corners.
Total Vision also cancels Hidden and its deployment rules, since no model will be out of Line of Sight.
Agile is Fast (12cm move), can Jump/Climb without a MC, move through friendly models, and Dodge, I think.
Favorite model from this month is Talia. Good rule set and love the reference to the Cobra Baroness.
That card pic is handy, thanks! Much better quality than the ones on the KM site.
And you're right about the exploding teeth, Remote Control plus Total Vision means you can just hide round corners and blow stuff up. There's one or two Batman profiles that can do the same trick with Batarangs.
@Henshini: Now you mention it I can't find Agile either. I think it allows a re-roll on Agility tests, In which case, the combo between M4, Acrobat and Agile means he has a potential for 4, re-rollable Dodges that succeed on a 1-4... Yeah, you're not hitting that guy at range!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
drazz wrote: Agile is Fast (12cm move), can Jump/Climb without a MC, move through friendly models, and Dodge, I think.
Thanks, I get how it works now. Using the Arkham computer games as an example I was thinking of detonating explosive gel through walls/buildings instead of using the remote batarang to go around them.
I don't think explosive gel works like that, you need to be in base contact and spend 1MC to place the gel, then spend 1SC at a later point to destroy an object. No need for LoS or range as far as I can tell:
If a character with Explosive Gel Manipulates a lamppost, Sewer Marker or urban furniture place on it a Gel Marker. During any subsequent round this character can destroy the selected item and remove it from the game spending 1SC.
Total Vision just means you can see everything, Remote Control means you don't need to fire in a straight line (although the total distance you're firing over can't be more than the weapon's range, so if you use the teeth or a RC Batarang round buildings you still need to measure round it).
Sorry, I should have put computer games to be clearer. I forgot this is also a game as well as the Arkham series. I didn't mean the BMG explosive gel but rather incorrectly thinking that remote control stuff could work directly through walls like in the computer games.
Remote Control allows you to 'shoot round corners' so long as you don't exceed the maximum range of the weapon when doing so, Total Vision allows you to see through all obstacles and barriers, the two together mean you can basically target anyone within range, so long as the physical 'path' the weapon is travelling is within its maximum range.
Remote Control allows you to 'shoot round corners' so long as you don't exceed the maximum range of the weapon when doing so, Total Vision allows you to see through all obstacles and barriers, the two together mean you can basically target anyone within range, so long as the physical 'path' the weapon is travelling is within its maximum range.
Perhaps the most interesting thing there, though, is Talia's affiliate: Lexcorp! Wonder where that's going (and if we can get an armoured Lex Luthor mini in the game, then bring it on!)
qft. LexCorp was the first thing I noticed and was like
Oh how I miss Bat-Builder... That Spanish site I linked earlier needs to hustle up w/ all the gangs!
Miss it no longer! Bat-builder is back in business!
The new releases from last month don't appear to have been added, so I wonder if this just a case of a decision being reached to leave the site up as it is and just not spend the time updating it every month, but still, the vast majority of the range is there and a calculator can fill in the blanks.
And I now have all the necessary high-res pics for the 'codexes' from there too!
There's still going to be a massive issue with Bat-Builder and its ability to handle traffic. Two months ago it ran out of bandwidth around the 22nd of the month, leaving about a week to wait to reuse.
Last month it run out on the 12th. Four days before the international tournament and nearly three weeks before the end of the month.
I don;t know and have not heard that the guys are doing anything new with it, whether adding new cards or adding advertising, but I would not count on it being a permanent thing.
If you use Battlescribe, there's a really wonderful one that is being added to.
Since Katrina Law's interview on Geek And Sundry last week, I've been painting my Nyssa Al Ghul mini.
It's kinda tricky, I'm trying to paint her clothing to match with Liam Neeson's and the ninjas.
But I'm worried once I'm done highlighting, it'll look like she's wearing a bathrobe... Maybe a black wash instead of blue would do it?
I also haven't figured out what I'm going to do with highlighting her legs, for some reason, in the 20 years I've been painting, I don't think I've actually painted something like that... It's always been like, cloth / fatigues or armour plated legs... What lines do I go over?
Compel wrote: I also haven't figured out what I'm going to do with highlighting her legs, for some reason, in the 20 years I've been painting, I don't think I've actually painted something like that... It's always been like, cloth / fatigues or armour plated legs... What lines do I go over?
Looking good so far. The legs looks like it's wearing some form of skintight clothing so maybe you could highlight it like you would for bare legs. Personally I just leave parts without raised areas to highlight unhighlighted or just edge highlight it.
I spoke to the guys at Flashback Generations, the company that made Bat Builder, and it was switched on to showcase their web building skills. It's been left on by 'accident', so enjoy it while you can, but it won't be updated past what's already been included.
Yeah, they mentioned that it was basically just a 'demo' (personally I think they should have at least made us aware that they always planned to end it, rather than just stopping) when they took it down. I appreciate it being left up even if not updated, but if that;s going too then I'm far from happy. Apparently there are alternatives being worked on, but as yet I have yet to see anything concrete other than individual's efforts with Battlescribe/Army Builder.
On the note of army builders, I do plan to get around to another set of compendiums like the ones above, I've just been very busy for the last week or so.
The Battlescribe one is mostly done, at least with bands and the point costs of the models. Its good, but it does't have rules references.
There is another that I have seen that is also pretty much done. All the bands, each category, full large cards linked in. Its not ready for general release, but its out there and nearly ready. Again, no rules links for special abilities or anything.
Played our first game tonight. It took a while as we needed to look up traits all the time but was fun overall.
We had four players (5 as one team shared) with 200 points on two teams: my Joker + 5 henchmen allied with Riddler + 3 bots + Deadshot against Batman + Batgirl and Green Arrow + Red Hood. We upped the board size to 4 feet and used 4 objectives per team because of the number of players which in retrospect was not a good idea. The heroes were terrifying to face but couldn't keep up with all the objectives, henchmen running around with loot and clues everywhere.
One rule question that came up was about the batclaw and what can you target with it. Can you target the ground or an object on the ground like a car if there is a greater than 10cm height difference like on a building. Also are tall lampposts valid batclaw targets.
As far as I'm aware, Batclaws can target any 'different surface' that the model can reach in a straight line without passing through obstacles, and can place the model at the end. With that in mind, I'd say the lamp post is out (unless you want to try and balance the heavy metal mini on the very thin spar ), but the following are acceptable:
Building to building
ground to building
building to ground
building to item on the ground
ground to raised area like the top of a shipping container or truck
but not:
Building to a different point on the same level of the same building
ground to ground
anything that would cause the model to pass through an obstacle or gap it could not otherwise fit through
anywhere you couldn't physically place the model
anywhere you can't draw a clear LoS to.
drazz wrote: Also, at least one of the surfaces must be 10cm off the ground.
From what was officially answered on Facebook that isn't entirely accurate, but that is why there needs to be some better defining and examples to it. This discussion happened a couple months back on Facebook. It is a bit muddled as everyone chimes in and goes back and forth... but it actually helps gain a better understanding of it.
The distinction with batclaw is defined with either "gap" or "elevation". You can either go up or down 10cm OR across a GAP that is a minimum of 10cm (gap is defined as 2 objects with edges). If you are crossing a "gap" that is 10cm or more, you can use the batclaw. The ground, with no edges or ledges can never be one of those "gap" moves, it can only be the start (or end of an "elevation" move. Being on top of boxes, crates, buildings, etc (things with an edge) is what is required to do a "gap" move. There doesn't seem to be any indication of a minimum of maximum height for these, however most people are in agreement 2cm should be the minimum.
- You could batclaw from the top of the roof to another roof, even if the surface is only 7cm off the ground, providing the roof gap you are moving is over 10cm.
- You could batclaw from the top of a 8cm building to a box on the ground, providing the gap is over 10cm.
- You could NOT batclaw from the top of building to the ground, even if the building is 10cm but you could batclaw to a 2cm box or curb.
Legal - It is over a gap of 10cm, between two different objects that have edges. (objective marker is used to mark end movement location)
Not Legal - Although over 10cm, the ground with no edges or ledges does not meet the 'gap' requirement. (objective marker is used to mark end movement location)
drazz wrote: The second example is legal if the elevation of the ending point is more that 10cm high.
That would be correct yes, if it wasn't 7.5cm and was instead 10cm high then moving from the ground to it is legal but not the other way around (from object to flat ground). Part of it is functionality as well as balance, otherwise, you could move to a box/curb and then traverse 10cm to flat ground. Also because if there isn't an edge, what is the batclaw actually connecting with? Once you define and understand the gap, different play areas then it is pretty simple. The only 'non-defined piece' is how high an object must be to be considered a minimum height for edge.. some say 1cm while most say 2cm. My opinion is 2cm is about right.
So you're saying you can't Batclaw from a building to the ground? I would say that would be fine, as the elevation of most buildings is more than 10cm and I'm not seeing where the 'edge' thing comes into it.
I guess if that is the case then it'll just become one of those things that I house-rule, as it makes sense and doesn't seem to have caused in any imbalance in the several dozen games where I've played it like that.
Honestly if I were rewording the rule I'd just say that it has to be a different surface that you can draw a straigh line to, not worry about minimum distances or 'edges' or anything. As I say, that's how I've inadvertently been playing it and doing it that way there's never been any confusion.
The other easy solution to the 'can't batclaw down' issue would be to make the Bat-capes work as more than a parachute, allowing a glide movement of some kind rather than just a damageless straigh drop.
I have a quick question around the affiliates for the different characters and crews etc. I've tried searching for my answer to no avail. Also i'm at work so cant get on to a lot of the sites...
Anyway, I see on the cards that it lists who the affiliate with. Do we then presume that any factions not listed there are not able to be joined?
@ adzila: Yep, you may normally only join crews that are listed on the cards.
There are, however, a couple of exceptions: If a model has 'Affinity: Character', they may be taken as a Free Agent in a crew with that character. For example, Talia with Batman, or Harley with Ivy.
If a model has Affiliate: Unknown, it may be taken in any crew, except any that it's card lists as Hatred (for example, Catwoman is Affiliate: Unknown, but Hates Joker so can't be used with him)
@Carlos: Shiny! I see Bats, Robin, Nightwing and Catwoman, Penguin starter, Deathstroke, Deadshot, what are the other two (second from left top, bottom right)?
I bought tokens from counterattackbases and they've been very useful so far so I thought I'd do a mini review.
The token are nice solid pieces although I've not used them enough to check wear and tear and are easy to read while being a not too large size. The templates are really nice and I was worried about getting a non clear coloured one but I ended up getting red and you can still see models underneath easily. They're a massive help in-game, keeping track of the things we didn't have enough counter for was hard enough.
I found I didn't get enough of the action counters so I'm going to get some more but another player used those tiny dice and they seem a good alternative.
I always go for using dice as AC, it just speeds things up so much. Rather than having to worry about dice and counters, you just pick up the dice directly from the card, roll and put them back on the other half of the card when you're done. It does mean you need more dice, but frankly a single dice cube from GW or similar should cover you for a whole crew and then some.
Keep a few extra handy for the likes of Combo and such, and it really does speed things up.
Didn't think of doing that, it sounds efficient. It was just one dice per stat recording the number of counters then switching to bigger dice for rolls.
Thought I'd share these awesome papercraft buildings I found when digging around for terrain for a demo game tonight. Under Big Buildings there's a very Gotham-suitable Gothic building, and there's also plenty of more modern buildings, shipping crates, vehicles and scatter terrain on the site.
And if anyone's wondering about how it takes metal minis, I was able to place Batman and Origins Bane on the roof of one of the large buildings printed on normal printer paper and it held them, Print it on card and assemble it properly and they should more than stand up to the rigours of gaming.
For the trial run I just printed on whatever normal printer paper is. Since the designs are nice, though, I plan when I can to print some on cardstock in full colour, as they really are nicely sized buildings and look much better than the cardboard boxes I've been using so far!
Another option is to print onto full-page sticky label paper, then stick it down onto 5mm foam card (or use normal paper and get a can of spray adhesive).
Covered Bane for you already, but for Batman, here's what I got:
- Know your Batmen, and pick the right one for the job. There's a good video on youtube by Flashback Generations that covers the strengths and weaknesses of each, and Cheaphammer has a good head-to-head, but it breaks down like this: If you want a Brawler, you want either Arkham Knight (the most expensive, but with Master Fighter he's the best fighter of the lot, and also has all the toys) or Miller Bat as he's built for getting up close and personal with good damage output and Endurance and you're not paying for toys that a brawler isn't going to use. If you want to have a Batman that is more versatile, take either AC or AO, both are competent fighters but also have the RC batarangs and vision perks for range, and AC has counterattack while AO has the Remote Claw and Shock Gloves. Dark Knight Batman is the self-sufficient one, able to perform his own arrests and with Stealth and high movement to make use of Sneak Attack more reliably. He's a tad squisher than the others, though.
- Know your backup. In an all-hero team like you mentioned you're looking at, everyone needs a role and they need to stick to it. Batman has loads of options for the various roles, so I won't go into them all here, but basically, for damage output you want someone like Nightwing, Green Arrow or AK Robin, for objective grabbing mobility try AC Robin or Batgirl, and for fighting in support of Batman go for someone like Damien or Canary, both of which have ways of shutting down the enemy for your heavy hitters to give them a beating (Damien with his Technique ability, Canary with the Canary Cry) but can't stand up on their own.
- Play the points game. It can be tempting with a hero team to beat people up all day every day, but if the person you're beating up is just a Henchmen and they're not scoring points themselves, then no matter how easy it would be to KO them in a round you'll often be better off grabbing an objective. If you've got a lot of Batclaws, use that to your advantage, keep on the move and don't get bogged down in fights if they aren't earning you points. On the other hand, if you can get the drop on and reliably KO a Free Agent, Sidekick or even Leader then take the shot, as there's plenty of points on offer from those models.
- Don't be overconfident. Yes, you're playing with some very powerful characters, but you aren't bulletproof, or even stab-proof! While it might be awesome to send Batman and Robin heroically swinging into action against Titaned-up Bane, the end result is going to be Bat-paste on the floor and half a dozen VPs handed to your opponent. Similarly, you might think Nightwing's dodge ability can keep him safe from that Assault Rifle, but even one fluffed role and he's pretty much lost half his health.
I try and mix it up as much as possible, but I do enjoy:
Batman (AO), Robin (AC) and Nightwing at 300 (well, 301) Rep, or Batman, or if I want a few more bodies Batman, Nightwing, Agent Ron, Agent O'Connel, SWAT Bravo. Bit shootier, and has more objective-grabbing presence. There are a couple more I wanr or try but have't got to yet: Batman (Miller), Nightwing, Red Hood (AC), Robin (AC), or Nightwing, Batgirl, Robin (AC), Huntress and Canary if Batman is on holiday/has just been Baned...
For Bane, I often go with Bane (Origins), Deathstroke (Origins), McGregor and Dallas from the Bane starter. If escalating to 350 rep, I'd swap Dallas and McGregor out for TNT and Venom Thug.
I also have good fun with the League of Shadows, Ra's as leader, and then a mix of ninjas from his set and the Mercs from Bane's.
Seems like 300/$1000 and 350/$1500 are the standards, though I'd start at 200. The 350 has been the KM "official" tournament points, likely because the Watchmen add up to exactly 350.
(slightly shameless plug)
I'm also of the mind that the number of models in a band for a completive (at least tournament level) game is about 7. Looking at the tournament lists from UK, Spain, and Canada posted at KM's forum, the smallest was 5, the largest was 10 and the average was 7. You can see some of my thoughts based on the lists here:
http://skirmishwargaming.com/batman-miniature-game-tournament-meta-review/#.VkDBEtCs3Zc
Something intersting in the new FAQ (available on Crits Kill People)
Q: If a model is Multiple Ranks and a Legend, does it count against both limits?
A: Yes, A model that is a Legend always counts
against the normal maximum of that rank
(like vehicles, or leaders).
So that perhaps hints at how Vehicles and more powerful characters are going to be integrated.
i got my local shop to carry them yay!
now if i wanted to play an all hero team i currently have
AC batman and batgirl... who would go well with them?
i would like an all hero team.. i picked my two fav models
im hoping to keep it in the bat family id like to be able to win
i was thinking catwoman, red hood, or nightwing
AC Bats is great for starting out, he's really competent at everything and at a good price point too (Miller Batman is much cheaper, but loses out on a lot of toys, AK Bat is more expensive but you need to use everything to really get your points' worth out of him). Batgirl is very much a support character, you want to be using her to run objectives, knock the last damage of weak henchmen or very wounded characters, and never throw her into a fight; the lack of Reinforce Gloves or a weapon means her CC potential is roughly equivalent to being repeatedly bludgeoned with a plump pillow.
So what you really want is a heavy hitter. I am a big fan of Nightwing or Red Hood (either version) in this role, both have some serious damage potential and speed. Nightwing is more straightforward, just point him at the thing you want beaten to a pulp, keep him in cover until he gets there, then use his Combo ability and Batons to unleash hell. The comic Red Hood's usefulness comes in the ability to deal Blood damage (non-healable, rare in a Batman crew) and at range, meaning that unlike Nightwing you don't need to expose him right in the enemy's line of fire to be doing damage. AK Red Hood has the brutal ability to turn a KO into an instant casualty, netting you more VPs and preventing the enemy from getting back up.
Catwoman and AC Robin I'd leave out for now. Batgirl fills a similar role, of speed and manoeuvrability rather than damage, and you don't really want more than one character like that in a small sized crew.
I am hoping that when they get around to doing an AK Nightwing, he'll be a Free Agent, since Tim Drake's Robin became a Sidekick in his AK version. Even better if AK Bats, Robin and Nightwing=300 Rep!
So to get to my 300 rep im going to add AK red hood since hes a free agent, and a cop either ron/gcpd detective or the police woman if my opponent is too iffy about 2 points
Automatically Appended Next Post: i know there is going to be a Harley team, a bane team, and another hero team
"Hero" focused Green Arrow teams are pretty easy to put together. Green Arrow, Arsenal, Canary and Huntress is 334, enough left over for a standard cop (with lots of gear on it).
drazz wrote: "Hero" focused Green Arrow teams are pretty easy to put together. Green Arrow, Arsenal, Canary and Huntress is 334, enough left over for a standard cop (with lots of gear on it).
Honestly I'd rather play that lineup 16 points down than dilute the theme with a random cop! But that's just me This is why we need Diggle or Lance! But then, Arrow needs more options generally; Sara Lance Canary, Thea Queen Speedy, or even ATOM or The Flash! Hopefully once the AK stuff is mostly done we'll see a few more Arrowverse minis.
Yaeh I can certainly see that from my point of view too. There was a blister of cops available at the FLGS so I picked them up but I cant see myself using them that often tbh. Will always want a hero over a bunch of cops.
Well to be fair, Agents Ron and O'Connel are decent enough, capable of tangling with most Henchmen if you need them to (and legends are still whispered of that time my Agent Ron went 4 rounds with Ra's Al Ghul and survived! ), it's just from a thematic standpoint I'm not a huge fan. And even then, if its a whole squad of cops and one or two heroes then that makes perfect sense, it's when you have 3-4 heroes and then an equal or lower number of cops that I struggle with it.
Yeah you just stated exactly how I feel about it. The cops are pointed perfectly to be fillers when you have too few points left for another hero but a few too many to want to waste. But as you rightly put it batman, robin, night wing and a police officer just doesn't feel right thematically. It's not that I am saying they are not good profiles in game, I will just always want to play the Hero's/characters when I can,
If your gonna have police thematically you want a bunch of the guys not just one or two.
For me thematic lists are important as I got these models because I love batman first and foremost as because I wanted to play the game a distant second. Game looks great don't get me wrong.
Btw am I right in thinking that there is no current way to play red hood and speedy together?
Some interesting ones confirmed so far. Punisher and DD is definitely something I'd play. ...if I decided to play.
Marvel sure has a plethora of street-level characters to add - Blade, Moon Knight, Elektra, Black Panther, Black Widow, Black Cat, Bucky, Bullseye, Hawkeye, Silver Sable... guess it depends on how far KM wants to "stray" from having it be an actual Spider-Man game or just a Marvel game. Some X-Men maybe make the cut too... Maybe Ben from F4 given Spidey's ties to them...
Of course there's the vast amount of Spidey Rogues. Definitely plenty of options for KM. Hopefully this won't take too much of their time away from BMG.
That's very interesting. Considering that they've added models like the Watchmen and Lobo to the Batman game, I wouldn't be surprised to see some surprises (does that make any sense?) in the Spiderman game.
Bear in mind also that Spiderman is a decently powerful character in the comics (he can throw cars around if he has to), and that Marvel comics power levels are lower on average than DC comics, and I think the potential roster is less limited than it is for the Batman game.
So I recently picked up the rulebook and a bunch of models. I'm currently reading the rules for a second time; some of the rules I like (allocating action dice, simple dice roll targets), some feel a little cumbersome (movement, two types of damage counter, etc), but I'll have to try the game to judge.
Meanwhile I'm assembling the models, and I'm finding them to be more frustrating than I expected. Some models are OK, but some of them have some pretty annoying mold lines and miscasts, and some of the detail is so shallow and positioned such that I've actually mistaken details for mold lines and miscasts at times and scraped them off. And the weapons are so scrawny that they bend and even snap to a light breeze! I would desperately love to replace Green Arrow's bow because every time I look at it the limbs are bent to a different shape, but I don't know what to use that would be stronger but appropriately sized; my GW Wood Elf and PP Nyss Hunter bows are huge in comparison.
What's more, the bases have a molded-in texture, but also a slot? So you need to manually sculpt a texture over the slot for most models? Madness!
I've been assembling models for several years now and I'm decent at conversions and stuff so I can handle it (well, most of it; those bows are just stupid), I just wasn't expecting to have to. I guess I was thinking that the game was aimed at least partially at people who don't have experience with miniature gaming? Was that not a fair assumption? I assume that everyone on Dakka has prior miniatures experience so no-one here is going to have the kind of trouble that a newcomer would, but am I just overreacting? Did you guys think this this game is newbie-friendly, and should it be?
I bring this up partly because I picked up this game specifically because I thought it would appeal to non-gamers who wouldn't be up for getting into Warhammer or Warmachine (with their large model counts), but might be up for a game where you only need five or six models (of characters that they already know and like), but now I'm thinking it might not work out that way after all.
Anyway, sorry for the long pointless rambling. The real reason I'm posting here (other than fishing for moral support - yes, these miniatures really are getting on my nerves that badly; Nyssa Al-Ghul's bow snapped almost as soon as I picked it up and I had to pin it back together), is because I was wondering what people use for terrain and gaming mats? I really don't want to have to put the time into assembling and painting scenery, but I want thematically-appropriate good-looking terrain to help me lure in new players. If I could get pre-painted scenery I would. Does anyone have any recommendations? I'd love to see photos of people's tables set up for a game to get some ideas.
There's lots of suitable Gotham-esque MDF terrain from companies like 4Ground.
Personally, I've used my Gale Force 9 scenery set.
And my Mantic Deadzone scenery for games.
Personally, I would have to say that Batman is not a newbie friendly game. It's small model count, sure, but it goes into sooo much depth for those few models that the amount of options can be quite bewildering.
There are things you can do though. - For example, I've been contemplating putting together full page 'cheat sheets' for all the characters I have, including their special rules all printed out.
In saying that, the game is great fun and I really do want the opportunity to play more of it. However, being the person that's learning the game from the rulebook for myself and despite having fully 18 years of gaming experience behind myself, I still have a lot of trouble getting my head around some rules.
Personally, I think the best 'gateway' game for new players just has to be X-Wing.
Compel wrote:Personally, I would have to say that Batman is not a newbie friendly game. It's small model count, sure, but it goes into sooo much depth for those few models that the amount of options can be quite bewildering.
Ah, so it's not just me then. It's a shame, but I'm still planning to give it a try. I'll probably start by running games without any of the special rules (the traits and stuff), just using basic movement and combat rules, that way it shouldn't be as hard for people to pick up. I'm considering house-ruling some of the movement rules to make them simpler as well.
Compel wrote:There are things you can do though. - For example, I've been contemplating putting together full page 'cheat sheets' for all the characters I have, including their special rules all printed out.
That's a good idea, I might do something like that.
Ugh, OK, sorry, but I need to post this. I started assembling Seeker today, and his bow snapped right off. That's the second time this happened. This time I decided to try replacing it with a modified Wood Elf bow, which I think worked out OK. Then when I went to compare it to Green Arrow's bow to see how it looked, I found that Arrow's bow was seriously bent. From sitting on a shelf. Seriously, it was fine when I put him up there, and it was bent when I pulled him back down. Imagine what would happen if I actually tried to play a game with him! Clearly I'm going to have to replace his bow as well. Which will be harder since he's already assembled, but I'll just have to make do.
Arrow's bow:
Compared to the modified Wood Elf bow:
P.S. You can see in those photos that I modified the wall section Arrow stands on; I wanted him to sit more centrally over the base. You can also see my weak attempts to match the texture that was on the bases. Hopefully it won't look too bad when painted.
P.P.S. Why do all the arrows have three-feather fletching but two-blade arrowheads? Weird. Sorry, I like to nitpick sometimes.
I commented on CritsKillPeople a while ago but it's still awaiting moderation, so not sure if the mods have read it.
I'm not sure if it's a bug or some feature I’m unaware of, but for League, adding Ying, Yang, or Lotus makes the other 2 disappear from selection. Anyone else getting this problem?
I definitely like Bat-Builder more, but it needs an update!
Compel wrote: It sounds like you might be falling afoul of the 'elite' rules perhaps?
Who is leading your band? Try it with Liam Neeson and see if you have the same problem.
I was actually leader-less, but it appears you are right. It also appears I may have been misinterpreting the Elite rule for the past almost-year? Or perhaps just never bothered to thoroughly understand it since I play Ivy or Swampy and no plant limit was kind of a given. But thanks
Either version of Ra's, oldTalia or Nyssa all give you unlimited ninja goodness, Shiva or Bane limit you to only one DK ninja, but the Ninjas that come with Shiva are not Elite so have no such restriction.
Agreed that the Bat-builder was much better, I use that for building lists unless I need a newer release in there.
Not sure what's going on with CritsKillPeople, they posted about how they had plenty of content and a site-wise reorganisation planned in November, and since then there's been about 2 or 3 new posts. Unless I'm missing something on the site, which is entirely possible.
I also prefer the ui on batbuilder, although I do like that the hero builder is not only updated with new models but removes options that cannot take according to terrain rules which I am not sure batbuilder does.
Would be better if it showed the options greyed out however and explained why.
I'm looking at playing my first game of Batman in, well, to be honest, a good few months. - Too many games, not enough time!
Despite thinking I had bought a whole bunch of models, I'm still struggling with getting suitably pointed gangs. Basically, I own too many sidekicks...
So, this is what I've ended up working out to field for me and my mate. If I've done it right, you won't be able to figure out what one I'm playing as:
Batman - 345, 1400
Arkham Origins Batman
Green Arrow
Agent Ron - Magazine, Whistle
Agent O'Connell - Flashlight
Gotham Policeman - Whistle
Gotham Policewoman - Flashlight
Two-Face - 346, $1450
Two-Face
Lieutenant Brandon
Arkham Origins Deathstroke
Puuoop - Bulletproof Vest
Twoowt
Zwoowz - Magazine, Bulletproof Vest
Seems fair. The Two-Face crew does have a LOT of shooting potential with Dent, Branden, Deathstroke and Zwooz, but that is kind of his 'thing' and Stealth on Batman (does GA have it as well) can mitigate that slightly. The Bat player is going to have to manoeuvre very carefully to avoid those guns, but with judicious placing of objectives it shouldn't be too one-sided.
The only issue with the Gordon set is the $ cost on all those profiles because of the riot gear and guns. You can't even play the whole lot in one standard 300 Rep game without using someone who brings extra funding (currently Alfred or Adam West Bats), but as individuals, they're all good models; Assault rifles are killer, the shotgun allows some mobile shooting, and the riot shield is pretty handy too. Gordon's ability to illuminate an area is nifty with all that shooting, too.
Hmm, I probably need to pick the set up myself, come to think of it...
I don't know how public this is, or if its enough to make an issue with the Gordon set, but a new rule is in place to help. Any model that becomes the boss drops its funding price to $0.
So Gordon goes from $200 to $0, Talia from $200 to $0, and Cyborg from $500 to $0.
drazz wrote: I don't know how public this is, or if its enough to make an issue with the Gordon set, but a new rule is in place to help. Any model that becomes the boss drops its funding price to $0.
So Gordon goes from $200 to $0, Talia from $200 to $0, and Cyborg from $500 to $0.
this is already in effect? I thought it wasn't going to be until 2E/expansion. Either way, I like it.
Also, I presume people have seen the new models for this month. Both Cyborg and Hawkgirl (as rep-expensive as they are) are making it harder for me to resist making a "good guy" gang...
Automatically Appended Next Post: If they make a Grayson/Agent 37 model, it'll definitely make me get a good gang. not sure how his rules would work, though...
Dooo it! DKR Bats, Cyborg and Hawkgirl come to 342 Rep and $500, so perfectly playable. You could even swap out Bats for the comic Green Arrow if you wanted. .
Or how about a Teen Titans list?
Cyborg
Hawkgirl
AK Robin
is a nice round 300 Rep, and probably quite playable.
Figured this ought to become the general Knight Models games thread now we have Spiderman Miniatures Game and the Marvel Universe game. Go wild with speculation, wishlisting, discussion ect!
Prices will probably throw me off the most, so I'd like to see starters in which I like all of the models. Can't get too specific, but I'd know it if I saw it. Xmen team is nice but cyclops and wolverine aren't.. working for me, for whatever reason.
Oooh, so many things! But my immediate wishlist for the Marvel game at the moment is a villain set opposite each of the upcoming hero teams.
Against the X-men, of course, the Brotherhood of Mutants: Magneto, Mystique, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver
To face the Guardians, I thought Thanos, Ronan The Accuser, Nebula and I struggled to think of a 4th... maybe The Super Skrull? Or the guy that's Thanos's right hand man/ambassador, can't think of his name right now. The one who gets his neck snapped by Ronan in the GotG movie.
For the Avengers, I'd want to see either Hydra, with Red Skull, Dr Zola, Crossbones and a dual-faction Winter Soldier, or for something a little more recent, maybe the Dark Avengers? Norman Osborne as the Iron Patriot, Venom as 'Spidey', Moonstone as Captain Marvel and Bullseye as 'Hawkeye' could be a nice lineup.
In terms of individual heroes I want to see, The Vision, Warbird/Captain Marvel, Dr Strange, Jean Grey, Storm, Nightcrawler, Beast, Groot, Falcon, Agents 13, Ant-man and the Wasp (no idea how they'd implement these either as minis or in the game, but I'd love to see it! ).
The only Guardians I'd be interested in seeing is a 'Movie Guardians' boxed set. Same with the Avengers, to be honest.
The only X-Men I'm particularly attached to is the 90's cartoon X-men. - Though, I think there's an... "New" X-Men? Jean Grey that's pretty awesome. (Or at least, that's what Marvel Heroes calls it)
I dunno, I'm wondering if this is going to be an issue for Knight Models? Despite tending to prefer DC, instinctually, I know that Marvel is far more popular overall.
But, the question is, what part of marvel is popular? Could it be that since Marvel is so diverse, the popularity is evenly split? In which case, what if the fans of one subsection aren't popular enough for the kits themselves?
I might be talking rubbish... But seriously, it's a thing I'm thinking...
I mean, sure there's loads of different Batmen, but that's one guy. Which iteration of the Guardians of the Galaxy do you do? Movie? Current comics, classic comics? What about the ones when Iron Man was a Guardian?
Movie X-Men, First Class X-Men, 90's X-Men, 80's X-Men? The original team? These are all the situations of multiple 'core' teams and each person would have their own personal preference of what means the most to them. How do you manage that?
From what we've seen, the Guardians will be the current/movie lineup; Groot and Rocket are confirmed, so that suggests that we'll get Starlord and Gamora in the starter, Groot as a Large model blister (like Grundy, Croc ect). Avengers we know have Widow, we can assume Iron Man and Thor as they've been shown, throw in Cap and do Hulk on his own (they already have minis for both) and you have the core of the Avengers Assemble movie team (and in the first movie, Hawkeye was pretty minor for most of it anyway). All the X-men in the starters have appeared in films in significant roles.
Thing is that basically anyone who's anyone has been an Avenger at some point, but there are still certain characters you think of as Avengers specifically. the 5 mentioned above, Ant-man and the Wasp, Vision, Hawkeye, Captain Marvel, maybe Spiderwoman, that's about it. Then there's the ones people who've read comics will know were on the team, like Luke Cage, Spidey, Wolverine, Doc Strange, Ares, Sentry, Wonder Man... So that's a easily couple of years of releases in just the first two 'tiers' of well-known-ness.
X-men again there are maybe a dozen that people will know/care about, between the films and basic comic knowledge. Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Iceman, Rogue, Gambit, Colossus, Prof X, Beast, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Bishop maybe... After that, it's characters to which most people who don't read comics are going to respond to with 'who?' I'm thinking Sunspot, Warpath, Havoc, Banshee (yeah, they were in First Class and Days of Future Past, but are most non-invested moviegoers going to remember them? Probably not)
Guardians are more limited, but I imagine the Cosmic faction will be a lot more 'random' than the others. You could throw in assorted Asgardian characters, the Nova Corps/Nova himself, Shi'ar/Skrull/Kree characters... but already you're getting quite obscure there.
I think in general, they'll stick to people who have appeared in previous-decade films, or 'iconic' comic lineups (probably based around 80s/90s comics and cartoons). I can actually see this range being a lot more popular than the DC stuff. While I personally prefer DC comics, and Marvel pale in comparison to them in the video game and animated material departments, the Batman game only really has 3 draws in 'mainstream' culture; the Arkham games, the Dark Knight films, and more recently Arrow (though I imagine that's less something that gets people looking at BMG, more something that they're pleasantly surprised to see included when they look into it) whereas you can't walk past any toy store, DVD store or aisle in a supermarket without something that says Marvel on it. There may be a lot of people who only watch the films and have never touched a comic in their lives, but that's still a huge audience with plenty of material to work from minis-wise; just releasing characters that have featured in recent films could keep KM busy for several years.
However, all that said, I don't think that even with the DC/Marvel tag, KM games are things that get people into wargaming in the same way that X-wing does. You still need to be aware of the hobby just to find them, looking in dedicated stores or online, and reasonably competent to build and paint the minis. There's a lot of crossover between gamers and comic fans, though, and that's where they'll get their audience, folks like us who already play Warhammer/X-wing/D&D/whatever and one day see that oh, look, you can get Batman/Iron Man/Thor models, and there's games to go with them.
Oops, that seems to have gone a bit rambly! Apologies! In short, though, I don't think KM will struggle to find stuff to sell us!
Yeah, wargaming wise, I think the Knight Model's games, though awesome, are always going to be niche-ish - particularly in America.
Even though it's a far superior game, I can't ever seeing it having a bigger impact than Heroclix.
I'd love to be proven wrong though...
My thinking was less an issue of them finding things to sell us but more, are they going to find things in specific costumes and settings to sell us in sufficient volumes?
For example, comic fans might massively love the current 'Rocket Raccoon' model. Personally, I prefer the design of Movie Rocket. Therefore, if a Guardians box set comes out with comic Rocket, I'm then not going to be buying that and other primarily movie fans might not either. The inverse may be true as well. Therefore, though there are almost certainly sufficient 'Guardians of the Galaxy' fans to sustain the range, what if they're too split up into separate subgroups that won't fun group starter sets?
carlos13th wrote: Biggest thing I want from the batman game is more options for an Green Arrow team. So many free agents cant be used by Arrow team.
Interestingly, the Speedy/Red Arrow Roy Harper model has been erattad to Arsenal, so I wonder if we might be getting the current TV Thea Queen version of Speedy at some point in the not-too-distant future...
I'd buy the hell out of a more fleshed out Arrow line. Sara Black Canary, Thea Speedy, Diggle, I reckon The ATOM wouldn't be too hard to fit into BMG either now they've broken the 150-Rep barrier a few times... Give us a few Flash characters as well; I want Cap Cold, Heatwave, King Shark, Grodd!
My thinking was less an issue of them finding things to sell us but more, are they going to find things in specific costumes and settings to sell us in sufficient volumes? For example, comic fans might massively love the current 'Rocket Raccoon' model. Personally, I prefer the design of Movie Rocket. Therefore, if a Guardians box set comes out with comic Rocket, I'm then not going to be buying that and other primarily movie fans might not either. The inverse may be true as well. Therefore, though there are almost certainly sufficient 'Guardians of the Galaxy' fans to sustain the range, what if they're too split up into separate subgroups that won't fun group starter sets?
To be fair, there's nothing massively different about Rocket between the model and the movie version, so far as I can tell. With a lot of them, it's also a matter of what you can do with a simple alternate paintscheme; those X-men could be just as easily painted in the black/blue movie suits, paint a bit of stubble on Thor and you have the MCU version, do Drax in blue rather than green and you have the film version ect.
I can definitely see what you're saying, but with Batman they've already proven that when there are radically different versions of major characters, they are open to doing multiple versions. We're on what, 4 Jokers? 7 Batmen?
Which reminds me, can we get a proper Comic Bane, please, KM?
Alright, if we're talking about WISH lists... I want to see a Con marvel super heroes event where the players get to use one each of their pick of provided heroes... to fight Galactus as represented by a cosplayer in an elaborate outfit And I guess he would get silver surfer too, until he was coerced into switching sides as usual.
carlos13th wrote: Biggest thing I want from the batman game is more options for an Green Arrow team. So many free agents cant be used by Arrow team.
Interestingly, the Speedy/Red Arrow Roy Harper model has been erattad to Arsenal, so I wonder if we might be getting the current TV Thea Queen version of Speedy at some point in the not-too-distant future...
I'd buy the hell out of a more fleshed out Arrow line. Sara Black Canary, Thea Speedy, Diggle, I reckon The ATOM wouldn't be too hard to fit into BMG either now they've broken the 150-Rep barrier a few times... Give us a few Flash characters as well; I want Cap Cold, Heatwave, King Shark, Grodd!
Yeah I would buy the hell out of an arrow show line too. ATM all I have is speedy, Arrow and some cops.
It would be nice to have Cyborg available to them because I really like that model. Also I really hope I can use Speedy with Red Hood (Along with an eventual Starfire)
Which reminds me, can we get a proper Comic Bane, please, KM?
That would lead tme to purchase a third Bane. I am all for it.
carlos13th wrote: So lets start the wishlisting. What does everyone really want to see in marvel and batman ?
For BMG, I'll paste what i put in their "official" forums:
Grayson, Agent of Spyral
Mecha-Batman (James Gordon)
Bluebird
Duke Thomas
Cassandra Cain
Wildcat
Midnighter
Grifter
Voodoo
Zealot
The Question (either Sage or Montoya or the New 52 abomination)
Harvey Bullock (either from comics for Law or Gotham TV show for Law/Organized Crime)
Selina Kyle (Organized Crime Leader)
Man-Bat
Killer Moth
Bronze Tiger
Prometheus
Cheshire
Anarky (possibly own gang?)
Tigress (Gotham TV show)
Professor Pyg (probably would only work w/ own gang...)
Eduardo Flamingo
The Ventriloquist (male or female or both!)
For Marvel, while I have a ton of ideas, I won't be buying in to it, so I can't really come up w/ a wish-list. But there are a plethora of street level characters and X-characters I'd love to see if I ever did get into it...
Jim Gordon Robobatman
DKR Mecha Batman
Batman beyond batman
Azreal Batman
Comic Bane
Red Robin
Batwing
Dingle from arrow
Comic / arkham game Gordon
Red Robin
Miller Oliver queen. (One arm arrow)
Bullock
For Marvel
Old man Logan
Punisher in Body Armour
Punisher with covered eye from Warzone
Rachel Cole Alvarez
Winter Solider
Dr Strange
The Defenders
The ability to play Marvel Knights in the supers game
Nick Fury (Sam J and Original versions)
Hawkeye
Ronin
Gambit
Cable
Bridge and Shield Soliders
I definitely think we need more versions of Batman. While 7 Bruce Waynes is all well and good, I really want to see Gordon in the armour, Grayson Batman and Azreal-Bat, and Batman Beyond would be a really nice addition, maybe as a Sidekick, cheaper Batman that doesn't hit as hard but has amazing mobility from his Jetpack.
I agree we need more to flesh out the Miller line, Carrie Kelly Robin and some Sons of Batman would be awesome. Mutants too as generic Joker/Two-face Henchmen.
One thing I'd really like to see, maybe from KM but possibly as more of a community project, is supplements/expansions themed around major arcs, movies, games ect. Throw together half a dozen scenarios, a few alternate characters cards, some additional optional rules (vehicles, weather conditions, civilians, underground combat, larger games ect) and you could offer something really cool.
For example, you could do something based on the Arkham Origins storyline. Alternate cards for a young Joker, younger Gordon, a few different Henchmen profiles, a few scenarios that cover the big set pieces of the game's main story, some rules for fighting in snowy/icy conditions, put that all together and Bob's your Bat-uncle.
With so much source material out there, it really does baffle me that KM themselves haven't done anything like that; the game itself is inherently very cinematic/narrative or whatever you want to call it, but they could really take that to the next level with some more themed, source-based stuff, and so much of the work is already done for them.
Its a combination. While I partial think we already have too many Batmen the other half of me really wants other batmen. We didn't need origins batman sculpt because its too much like City batman an alternative card would have been better.
I would love to see greyson batman, I like the comics when greyson plays a very different kind of batman.
I would be all for scenerio packs. Either with no models or with one or two like the infinity Dire foes packs.
Back on the subject of Origins I am disappointed they went with the jacketed Bane instead of the unjacketed version.
to me that screams bane so much more than the version we have.
I need deadpool. Is there a deadpool yet? Should be. Then, I want deadpool and spiderman on my team. I dint care who else, probably attractive e female supers so pooly can make a bigger arse of himself.
There is a Deadpool, with the film so close I can't imagine the re-release of the mini with rules will be too far off.
@Carlos: I figure the reason they had Bane with his jacket on is to set him apart from just being a smaller version of the Arkham City version. I do really like the AO Bane, though, I think it has a real imposing presence without being too over-the-top. Of course, there is definitely a place for a completely mahoosive Bane as well, but the practical, down to earth version is really cool.
I got a few new purchases today. - Arkham City Poison Ivy - Entirely because she's going poof soon. Blackgate Prisoners set 1, because having some more cheap villains seems kinda handy.
And, more impotantly, Jim Gordon and SWAT. The lack of these seemed to be a huge limiting factor in all my 'good aligned' forces.
So, I've been putting some random lists together as a result, just to see what sort of options I have opening up now.
Ra's Al Neeson, Nyssa, Deathstroke (origins). - For some reason, I thought I'd have more models than that in this group...
Ra's Al Neeson, Nyssa, Lotus, Ying, Yang, Seeker, Prisoner 02
- Trying to field Ra's and Nyssa together always ended up in loads of wasted points until now.
Gordon, Batgirl, Alpha, Bravo, Delta, Echo, Policeman, Policewoman, O'Connell. - I heard rumour of bosses not costing funding, can't find that anywhere though... (But then, I've oft lamented that a lot of Batman rules seem to be hidden in secret webpages). - If my opponent would let me though, I'd be able to replace the police woman with a detective...
Anyhow, 10 models is a lot of models in a Batman game I feel...
- I think Joker and Penguin lists commonly run at that, am I right?
I figured, since I had the models, I might as well see what I can do with an Organised Crime faction...
Commissioner Loeb, Alpha Swat, Bravo Swat, Prisoner 01, Prisoner 02, Turk, Riddler, Catwoman, a Detective (Bullock perhaps? ), 2 magazines and bribe.
Even though I don't intend on collecting a Poison Ivy gang, I figured, lets see what I can pull off...
Arkham City Poison Ivy, Deathstroke Origins, Catwoman, Prisoner 02, Turk.
- I imagine this list would be rather terribad, but hey...
I've played Two Face a few times and he was a little too gun heavy for my mates enjoyment, so I figured trying to go for something a little less gunny.
Two-Face, Riddler, Twoowt, Zwoowz, Rottor, Mottom, Puuoop, HS Henchmen, Prisoner 01, Prisoner 02, 2 bulletproof vests, 2 magazines, handcuffs (Maybe Bribe instead though?)
And finally, I was able to make up a Batman list a lot easier than I used to.
Arkham Knight Batman
Arkham Knight Robin
Detective - Whistle, Ammo (I hear a detective is always better than Agent Ron?)
O'Connell
Policeman
Policewoman
Alpha Swat (Whistle, Ammo)
There still doesn't seem to be a good choice of minis for a Green Arrow force though. - Gimmie my Diggle and White Canary!
In other news, I've given myself a challenge, I've to finish painting Superman before the end of next Friday's Geek And Sundry Group Hug show.
There's still a lot of way to go with him. To be honest, he was a subject of my "Compel tries liquid mask and experiments fully airbrushing a model smaller than an AT-ST" disaster and, in all honesty, I should really have detolled him and repainted him right from the beginning... Like I plan to do with AK Robin...
I think I'm happy with this blue - Vallejo model colour Prussian Blue as a final main blue colour for him. The thing I need to figure out next is what to highlight with. I was thinking enchanted blue, but someone pointed out to me that Enchanted blue (aka Magic blue aka Teclis Blue... I think), is a bit too vibrant a colour and maybe I should be looking at something more pastel-ey? I don't think Ultramarines blue is light enough for a highlight though? I do have Ice blue and baharroth blue for the final ones though, but I think that's too much of a jump...
Although, before I get overly concerned about highlighting, I should probably do the S and his belt. At least the skin seems ok enough that only edge highlights should be needed, right?
Also, I'm playing a Batman game at my gaming club on Tuesday! We're looking at going for maybe 250 points, 1000 rep, because I'm incredibly slow at playing the game.
Naturally of course, the first list I come up with, is 251 points, with 3 models... - Ra's, Nyssa and Lotus. I might need to work on that a bit more...
I think I can go for Nyssa, Talia, Yang, Ying, Seeker and giving seeker pretty much all the equipment. - Night vision goggles, magazine, trained in shadow, climbing claws. - May be a little bit over kill though
Motograter wrote: And marvel universe has arrived. 3 boxes and 3 blisters, tokens and template. Obviously more will follow
Sweet, very interested to see what new models this leads to. Hoping for the full cast of the 90s x-men cartoon! I loved that show. Is there a new rulebook? I don't see one on the site.
By the way, that template is 3-dimensional? Interesting. Was there something like that for Batman?
The rulebooks are included in the starters, 36 pages if I recall which is pretty substantial. No sign of an online version yet, though all the stat cards are on their site.
I.... think... I might have finished painting Superman. Maybe...
Incidentally, still nowhere near brave enough to try to paint eyes.
Funnily enough, I've to repainted all the edge highlighting on the cape, as I tried doing the whole red glaze thing, which seemed to end up completely obliterating it all...
I'm definitely up for getting any advice on what I should do with him now.
Probably just varnishing time though? Satin then Matt varnish, if I remember right?
Awesome! Any idea where you'll be going on the painting front? I've decided I'll be going full 90s cartoon/comic book on mine, at least as far as the colours go. None of those boring black/blue jumpsuits from the films!
Not ordered the Avengers or X-men yet, but I will very soon, definitely while they're still on pre-order.
The other thing I found is that if you drop Thor and Widow from The Avengers, and move Wolverine over to them, that's equal to the remaining X-men at around 21 points. Might be good for demo games, and will almost certainly form the 'base teams' of the AvX campaign I have planned once we have a few more options for each side (We need Magneto, Emma Frost, Storm. Spidey and Captain Marvel pronto!)
Yeah probably going cartoon style for mine too. Was sonewhat tempted to paint up the xforce or the xmen deadpool costume he made for himself but I think I'll stick with the classic unless they make multiple deadpool.
Bit of a Shame that Cyclops has the head balaclava thing instead of hair.
I'm going for The X-Men myself, with a mate going for the Avengers. Of course, we're both getting a Deadpool, naturally.
I haven't heard many people voting for the Guardians of the Galaxy though. I'm wondering if maybe it's the sculpts. - Gamora looks incredibly slender and delicate, Star-lord looks closer to Bayonetta than Chris Pratt and, for me at least, I'd have preferred the movie Rocket.
The Guardians set definitely has the weakest sculpts' aesthetically/design wise, they're all fine, but Gamora looks tiny and Starlord is about 3/4 legs and 1/4 upper body, not to mention a pretty awkward pose. Rocket is fine, Drax and Nova are great, but Gamora and Starlord are poor, I think.
I love the guardians. Hate the avengers even though its my favorite. Id far rather have movie sculpts then old comic book ones.
On another note. Whats the turn around on knight models getting back to customer service. I want to cancel a preorder sibce flgs is getting it and havent heard anything for days
str00dles1 wrote: Anyone get any shipping notification? I know the site says estimate shipping the 24th, and im sure it will take awhile to get to the US.
Tried to contact them, and havent heard anything back for days
Due to really high demand, they stated there's been a delay of a week, so everything should start shipping first week of march or so
My latest stage was trying to give her skin a greenish tinge. I think I mostly succeeded alright, there were a couple of points (mostly on her hands) that went a bit overboard.
So, that was with Waywatcher Green glaze, I found an attempt at using the shade overdid it a little. - I'll be layering it next, which is going to be interesting. Ideally it'd be mostly normal skin with the layering (I'll need to be VERY careful where I'm painting, but hopefully practice with superman should help there.). But I'll see if I can put a little greenness into there too without overdoing it.
KM are on fire! Flash and Arrow expansion incoming! (Cheers to Drazz for posting this across to Dakka)
drazz wrote: Batman MIniature Game expansion announced today. Looks like the CW is coming to town!
(Sorry, no insider info yet. Will check sources today.)
Really looking forward to this one, I've been saying for ages that BMG could really use some expansion material so I hope they make the most of the potential here. Also opens up so many minis, being a full expansion. Gimme Captain Cold and Heatwave, The ATOM, Flash and Reverse Flash, Firestorm, GRODD!
I had pre-ordered within minutes of the game going up on a U.S. site...also posted all the U.S. sites to the FB page and the forum. Really excited...started some very positive threads about terrain and local gaming spots...
but then the delay happened...not a deal breaker for me...but the lack of communication from KM WAS a big concern for me.
I mentioned my concerns on the "official" facebook page...mentioned that several of my friends had already been burnt by BMG and it's poor distribution in the US...
I got a pretty sharply worded PM from "Drew Wood"...basically "cut the negative crap out"
I explained my concerns to him...
And was banned from every KM group...and told I was a Troll...a loud mouth and whiny.
WTF?
that is how you turn an excited fan into a person looking for another game...
cancelled my Preorder ($81) and put that money into another game that treats it's customers...well...like customers.
Sometimes people see themselves as 'gatekeepers' of a, well, to be honest, fandom. With knightmodels being a relatively small community, it's very easy to fall foul of overzealous fans. Sometimes, it's attempts in this case to hide negativity, othertimes, it's things a lot nastier.
The thing to remember is that the fans are not the employees. - In this case, I imagine that person administers many of those fan pages.
Knight Models seem to very much rely on others to do pretty much every ancillary thing to the game. - EG, the Army List builder is separately hosted at http://www.hero-builder.net
Ultimately, what's worth remembering, is that Knight Models number maybe 3-5 people at most and it is possible not to overzealous fans taint your experiences of a company or game.
Me, personally, I have no intention of ever going to a Batman Miniatures Game tournament, or marvel for that matter. I only really play the games with close friends at my club. I could choose to concern myself with the games fandom as a whole but I basically choose not to deal with the stress (when I can, at least).
In the meantime, my mates and I play Batman. Because, well, because Batman.
I'm sure he's one of the moderators/page-admins, yeah. - Not 100% certain about being one of the game designers (He's not Spanish, for one, for another, he doesn't list himself as being employed by them, something that a working games designer for a company would probably do). You could be right, of course, but a quick googling suggests he's more of an fan-with-connections, than an employee.
In any case, I wouldn't write the game off, myself. I'd probably write off the facebook communities though. :p
Compel wrote: I'm sure he's one of the moderators/page-admins, yeah. - Not 100% certain about being one of the game designers (He's not Spanish, for one, for another, he doesn't list himself as being employed by them, something that a working games designer for a company would probably do). You could be right, of course, but a quick googling suggests he's more of an fan-with-connections, than an employee.
In any case, I wouldn't write the game off, myself. I'd probably write off the facebook communities though. :p
the info was from a pretty reliable source...but I don't have the rulebook so maybe he's not. I know he is "Doctor Warlock" on the forums (which I have also been banned from)
I've been gaming for a long time...and I have had my share of disagreements with people but I have never been banned from a group...and never PMEd with insults by the guy banning me.
I was looking forward to it...but that treatment really turned me off...I did let KM know but no response yet (the incident happened on March 6th I think...but I wasn't able to find a real way to communicate with KM until last week).
Truthfully a well worded apology would be enough to set it straight.
Automatically Appended Next Post: by the way...this is the response (private message) to Drew Wood that got me banned
"I have been very clear in my criticism.
BMG could not get a foothold in the U.S. because of KM's poor distribution.
I want to like MUMG...I want to support it...but I am not getting my group excited about a game if they can't buy.
I tried that with BMG...and all I got was some frustrated friends. I will see what KM can do with this...if they haven't increased their resources for this game then they can't expect people to blindly support it.
constantly deleting posts that you don't agree with is going to make the group a very quiet echo chamber."
I don't know about Marvel, but, for Batman:
"Game Design and Development: Gustavo Adolfo, Cuadrado Egea, Francisco Conde, Nunez and Luis Escudero Moran.
Editors: Mark Latham and Gustavo Adolfo Cuadrado Egea
Translation Mark Latham and Andres Herranz Alonso.
There is a special thanks to him and the others in the Arkham City Limits facebook group, which isn't too big a surprise, really.
yeah it seems my information may not have been accurate...I know he is a big part of the BMG scene in the UK...I think he ran the big event at "Wayne manor" a while back.
once again...just looking for an apology for being treated disrespectfully by one of their people.
here was his response after banning me
"You know what mate, I tried to be nice - and you are arguing
One of the distribution issues is down to the bigger "middle men" not wanting to take it on - take that up with them.
As for the "constantly deleting posts" - no offence, we only do that with people who are rude/pushy/trolls/rules-breakers - and the ACL has been run that way from the start - its a "echo chamber" with 2,241 members and (no doubt) more on the way. Many of which feel welcome and unimpaired by trolls and unpleasantness.
We run the group for everyone, not just the few loud mouth curmudgeons who like to be a bit whiney because they cant have their own say.
This is run like a club, albeit an online club - we expect good behaviours from members. If you can't provide that - you aren't welcome.
After discussing it with the rest of the team - You've been removed from all official Groups - and you can rejoin on the express understanding, you stop moaning and being confrontational."
Just one of those things, I'm afraid, admins can run their groups (or forums), how they wish.
In any case, I can't wait for the Marvel game, myself. - Though I do have more Batman ninjas to paint first. It'd be nice to get a painted faction. Mostly right now, I've just been pottering around various characters and not been doing any henchmen. - Poison Ivy was my most recently painted mini, for example.
Marvel wise, I'm going for the X-Men, though I did buy the original version of the Black Widow mini too. - I have the horrible, horrible feeling that means I'll end up buying the Avengers at some point...
Yeah, the big reason I never went beyond the rulebook with BMG is the attitude and behaviour of KM and the group admins - which surprised me as I worked with Drew many years ago and Ian is a decent guy too.
Yup, I've had some difficulty with the facebook group myself. The thing is, Is, I just try to see it as a facebook game and I divorce it from the game itself (which is really fun).
As, lets face it, unless you're going for a tournament, you're never gonna interact with those guys anyways and there's other places to chat about the game anyhows (like Dakka).
Drew Wood is most definitely not a game designer for Knight Models. He is not an employee of Knight Models. He is not even in close communication with anyone at Knight Models.
He owns the Arkham City Limits BMG fanpage. He was basically the first to post about the game on Facebook and make the fan site there. Because it was the oldest and had the biggest following, KM made it the official fan page.
Really, the fan page does not have a good, close relationship with the KM people. There are a couple of mods there that have developed relations with KM though.
I have heard people complain about the Facebook page before and am not surprised really. PM me if you want to talk more about that.
But, really, don't let Drew Wood tut you off from the game. Both are fun and well designed. KM may get to be more user friendly as well. And keep coming back here to talk about the game
Have you considered emailing Knight Models with your concerns? If you have full copies of the entire conversation that would be good to include. Probably won't lead to much, but it probably won't hurt either, especially if you include the order number of your cancelled preorder.
thank you for all the replies.
I did finally find a way to contact them...their "contact form" seemed to be broken and they did not reply to my other attempts to contact them...finally I asked the guy that ran "ctritskillpeople" and he actually mentioned he now worked for KM. I explained what I had dealt with...haven't heard back.
i was definitely excited about the game and hearing that Drew Wood doesn't reflect KM seems promising.
But KM needs to hear about how bad the Mods are treating fans and potential fans. cancelling my pre-orders and telling those stores my reasoning seems like one way to get a message to KM too...I am a consumer and a fan...stop making me feel unwelcome...there are plenty of friendly great game companies out there that will gladly take my cash.
KM, in my opinion, is getting to the size that they need a community outreach guy. One that can communicate with the various message boards and websites and coordinate with them. One that speaks English fluently, even if its UK English. One that can reach out and find a god-damned distribution center in the US that doesn't run two months behind and isn't constantly out of stock. One that can give some information about what is happening and what is going to happen with their products.
I know the KM team is full of gamers; they made a great game and fun models. But they should know that gamers want information and fair treatment.
Drazz is dead on...and I will let my issues fade as you guys get back to enjoying these games...
on that note...any idea when the U.S. is getting it? I heard it was planned to ship out today...but it was unlcear if that was just EU/UK or worldwide.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ok...one more thing related to KN's poor customer service...and than I am done I swear
Ian Henderson runs a blog that has been a great source of information about BMG and MUMG...he just posted links to the 2 "Official" Marvel pages (the FB one and the forum)
I think it's a good place to post concerns anyone might have with those places...not trolling and not attacking but intelligent critiques of the issues.
Received my x men stuff yesterday looks good apart from the broken bits. In regards to the official km groups they are awful. Have had posts removed then banned then after are mailing knight themselves they banned and blocked me on facebook. Pretty sad when that's hardly doing them good publicity between the unfriendly groups and even them banning people. Seems like they don't care if they get bad rep or not. Not nlt that as I am banned from talking to them I cant get replacements for the broken stuff
Motograter wrote: Received my x men stuff yesterday looks good apart from the broken bits. In regards to the official km groups they are awful. Have had posts removed then banned then after are mailing knight themselves they banned and blocked me on facebook. Pretty sad when that's hardly doing them good publicity between the unfriendly groups and even them banning people. Seems like they don't care if they get bad rep or not. Not nlt that as I am banned from talking to them I cant get replacements for the broken stuff
for me...a company that treats me with Disrespect doesn't get my money...and my groups money...they obviously feel they can treat their customer base like idiots and still make money off of them.
...worse part of your situation is you know can't get ANY customer support even though you ARE a customer...all because some overzealous fan in charge of the "official" groups didn't like you...very unprofessional.
So i think it was mentioned each starter has its own mission.
Does it violate anything to post the mission? I dont have x men and using other avenger models so dont have their mission eother. Just guardians of galaxy
If I remember right, photocopying is bad, quoting things verbatim, also bad.
But if someone were to write up the scenarios in their own words with their own diagrams. (Which, quite frankly, would be helpful anyway, cause they are TINY), then there would be less of an issue. I'm not saying there would be 'no' issue (that would be for a mod to decide) but yeah...
The X-Men one is a kind of "Defend the middle of the board" style mission.
Compel wrote: If I remember right, photocopying is bad, quoting things verbatim, also bad.
But if someone were to write up the scenarios in their own words with their own diagrams. (Which, quite frankly, would be helpful anyway, cause they are TINY), then there would be less of an issue. I'm not saying there would be 'no' issue (that would be for a mod to decide) but yeah...
The X-Men one is a kind of "Defend the middle of the board" style mission.
The Avengers one is based around 3 Objectives, placed along the centre line, start Neutral and a model in base contact can spend 2 Power to Claim it for their side. 1VP for:
- First player to have ALL objectives Claimed at the end of a turn
- The player with most under their control at the end of the game
- Any time a player has held an Objective for 3 consecutive turns without the enemy capturing them
The idea of new minis coming with new scenarios is great, but I do wish there were some more in the starter book just for some variety... I'll see about getting some written up later if I get time. So far I've mostly just been doing fights to the death (with a turn limit), but will experiment a bit soon.
Really enjoying the game thus far, the mechanics are really exciting and solid, the interactions of powers/types/abilities is very nice, and the first time you pull off a Fastball Special it's just epic! Thor is a real beast to take on, but a 3 turn combo of 'chuck Logan with Colossus', 'Chuck truck with Colossus then beat on downed Thor with Logan' and finally 'steal Thor's power and last HP with Rogue' brought him down...
Only after his For Midgard power played skittles with my nicely lined up X-men though! Top tip, don't bunch up anywhere Thor can feasibly hit you, it hurts!
The guardians of the galaxy one is grab and take 2 objectives.
Each player places a objective 30mm or smaller within 4 inches of the center of the board.
6 turns game
While in base contact you can spend 1 power to grab it and hold on to it.
If your knocked out, dead, pushed, thrown, pulled you drop it where you stand before moving (in the case of a throw or push)
First to 5 VP wins
- First player to make someone drop a objective gets 1 VP
- If you own both at the end of a round, you gain 1 VP
- If you have both in your zone at the end of the game you get 1 VP ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compel, do you mind sharing yours? Or anyone who has the x men?
Played our first game last night and loved it. Really needs villains but the mechanics are great. Thor and Iron Man really can hit like trucks
Speaking of trucks, also had some questions...
For picking and throwing things at people, can you pick things up equil to your Strength vs its size? Like A tank is a 5 rating, can Thor pick up anything 5 or less?
Yep, that's how throwing works. The item (or character) size must be equal to or lower than the thrower's strength, the damage inflicted by a successful throw is equal to the Size of the thrown item or model. For example, Colossus (Str4) picks up a large car (Size 4) and throws it at Cap, who takes 4 Damage if the throw is successful.
str00dles1 wrote: Are there any good resources on modern city scatter terrain? Got buildings and cars, just needs more smaller stuff
It depends on how strictly you want to define modern.... I'm planning on using my Deadzone terrain from Mantic Games.
Mantic also have a "1950's redbrick" style scenery sets for their Mars Attacks game. A bit too "small town America" but not every fight has to take place in Manhattan.
I think there's plenty of 4Ground Infinity style scenery that you could use if you wanted a Tokyo or Times Square kinda feel.
A scenario I would be playing if I was playing as the X-Men would be something like
It's kinda a last stand sort of situation (hehe). Played on a 3' by 3' board for 6 turns. Player A gets to place all the scenery. Player B then decides whether he wants to either deploy in a 6 inch square in the middle of the board. Or 3 inches onto any board edge.
Deployment looks pretty standard for the game, I'm guessing. However, the person doing the surrounding can't deploy models within 2 inches of each other. (because they're surrounding).
1 point for killing the highest point enemy model (you have to specify which one if equal)
1 point for your highest point dude NOT dying
1 point if >50% of your models were still alive. Then an extra point if *all* your models are still alive.
1 point if you've killed >50% of your enemy models.
You must overdramatically shout "JEANNNNNN!!!!!!" if a model with red hair is killed during the battle.
Anyone managed to get some games in yet and figure out some neat interactions/combos that the rules seem to feature a fair few of?
Other than the awesomeness that is the Fastball Special, one I've found a good and very fluffy one is to use Cap's Avengers Assemble ability early on to regroup. Infiltrate Widow and fly up to lay down some early ranged damage with Stark and Thor, then move up Cap last and use Avengers Assemble to pull all 3 of them (with some careful positioning and Cap's 'Agile' rule you should be able to get all 3 in the 8" radius) back to then play a little more defensively the next turn as they all cover each other. Worked rather well in last night's game, took Cyclops and Rogue down a few HP early on then set up a solid defensive position.
No real combos ive seen. I had window start the game adjacent to the relic so turn one she grabbed it, moved, grabbed the other then I had Cap be her bodyguard as she ran off with them. Tony and Thor really can hurt which they did on Drax (though hes a tank also)
hoping to grab some scatter terrain at the local hobbytown usa today and grab deadpool, nova, and panther from the FLGS Weds and get another game in
str00dles1 wrote: Are there any good resources on modern city scatter terrain? Got buildings and cars, just needs more smaller stuff
I don't know about the US, but Ainsty in the UK do all sorts of skips, grit bins, vending machines, crates and piles of rubbish, piles of tyres and Jersey barriers, as well as pavement pieces with bollards. They also do interior furniture, too.
There's also Black Cat Bases and Fenris Games. Fenris have wheelie bins, pillar boxes, propane tanks (perhaps not so useful to hide behind!), dustbins, fire hydrants, 44gal. drums, plant posts, skips, a police box, street lamps and a wide variety of manhole covers for an assortment of real and fictional cities (sadly not Rome, though).
I finally found time to paint some of my Batman minis, so here's some quick Ninjas. I basically just focused on finishing these guys as quickly as possible, so they don't look like much (though to be honest I'm not sure how much more I could have done with them, I'm not very good at painting cloth):
Their names are, from left to right:
Ninja 01
Ninja 02
Ninja 03
Lars Andersen
(Seriously, look up Lars Andersen on youtube if you don't already know who that is).
The advantage of MUMG over BMG is that you can do a lot with the terrain. Probably the cheapest option would be the moonscape/alien planet, just scatter some rocks (both large for blocking and small for lobbing at folks) and a crater or two if you have one and you're sorted.
Underground/interior setups could also be interesting, and lots of games have suitable floor tiles.
There's also a lot of papercraft stuff out there if you're willing to put in the effort to build it, that's the cheapest you'll get.
Paradigm wrote: Lovely work on those, very nice cloth texture and the wooden weapons add a nice splash of colour and contrast. Can we expect Ra's to follow soon?
Thanks, I'm glad to hear they look ok considering I mainly just used very basic wash and drybrush techniques. I'm probably going to paint some GCPD next (in a similarly "economical" fashion), before moving on to the more time-consuming Batman and Mr. Ghul.
I didn't think of interior before. That might be neat and easier to build. Also the idea of the Savage lands world with Dinos.
Side question, as I want to make sure I am counting right. A Health marker starts on a characters first Grey slot and the character is removed when the marker moves from its very last red slot to nothing yea? so black window for example being 3/3/3 can take 9 total hits before dead
I was a bit unsure of that. Though, I think I did read (admittedly before I got the models), that they actually don't start on the grey track, therefore they don't get the grey bonuses until they take a hit.
"When a characters endurance reaches 0, the model is incapacitated."
Therefore, the way I would play it, Black Widow can take 9 points of damage (EG have 9 damage tokens assigned to her), she then has 0 endurance, and is therefore out of the game.
I have absolutely no idea whether that's the intention or not though, I'm kinda going by "Batman" and "Imperial Assault" rules for that.
However, thanks to the bit about "subtracting from their endurance" I would have a really hard time disagree with someone that treated it as a gauge, a bit like "Epic Spell Wars." - To be honest, I'm starting to talk myself into that way of thinking.
In which case, it's still 9, but you do start on the first grey box.
Start with no Damage
First hit puts a marker on the bar, in the relevant position
Once a model enters the pale, check for KO at the end of the round (note KOed models can still get up if they pass a Stamina roll)
Test for KO immediately if the model goes into the red, and at the end of any round it's in the red or the pale.
Once enough damage has been caused that the counter would go off the end of the bar, the model is removed.
So the way I play it, models both start and end with no marker on the bar.
Yeah, Ian Henderson just confirmed that's how it works. - So, effectively, Black Widow has 10 health points.
EDIT: Although, the latest update seems to be leaning towards, "Start on the first grey marker, then move off the grid." - Kinda like a gauge / epic spell wars kinda thing. - So it tracks along and when there's none left, dead.
After more games it has to be start on first grey and removed after damage is taken that would move counter off last red bar. Wouldnt make sense that all heros need to be damaged to gain their first bonus
str00dles1 wrote: After more games it has to be start on first grey and removed after damage is taken that would move counter off last red bar. Wouldnt make sense that all heros need to be damaged to gain their first bonus
That did make sense to me, actually, the first few hits are enough to piss them off (hence the bonus) but not cripple them, the red and pale areas are the point where the damage actually starts to affect them.
I reckon it can be played either way so long as both players are on the same page, but an 'official' answer would be nice.
Also looking at the FAQ, I noticed more things I have questions on...
If you have total vision and homing, do you ignore cover? Or can you shoot them regardless but suffer the -1 to hit still?
When you choose to overload, you get +1 dice OR the "Overload: XXX" effect. I guess I read it wrong in the book. I mean it makes sense you overload to not only hit but also get a effect but I guess that's not the case. Its hard enough as is to hit people. Guess it really makes it a choice of good change of a auto hit or small chance to hit but gain an effect.
If you are pushed, lets say from Thors ability and your pushed into a wall/building/scenery, do you take damage from hitting it?
I believe Total Vision and Homing works the same way as "Remote" and "Total Vision" in Batman the Miniatures game.
Basically, you can ignore cover as long as you can trace complete route up to the maximum distance that doesn't go through cover. - If you've played the Arkham Games, think about how the 'Remote Baterang' works.
With "Overload" you get to piece either +1 dice, or the Overload Effect, not both at the same time, but you get to pick.
Note: This is different from the Critical Damage effects, the 'special' effect *must* always happen rather than the +1 damage.
I'm gonna be honest, I've not really read the push / throwing rules yet.
str00dles1 wrote: When you choose to overload, you get +1 dice OR the "Overload: XXX" effect. I guess I read it wrong in the book. I mean it makes sense you overload to not only hit but also get a effect but I guess that's not the case. Its hard enough as is to hit people. Guess it really makes it a choice of good change of a auto hit or small chance to hit but gain an effect.
I've not found it that hard to hit in my games so far, even without Overloading, especially as most attacks/characters have plenty of power to perform multiple attacks per turn. That said, I do tend to Overload if I have the Power left to do so, simply as that extra D8 (or getting the effect) is usually worth it. You get a couple of enemies close together, you want to be overloading Thor's hammer throw or Cap's shield to hit them (as it's cheaper than attacking both separately), and if you absolutely need some damage, the extra D8 is really handy.
There's no damage from being pushed into something, there is damage for being thrown into something, detailed in the Throwing section of the book. If you're pushed or thrown off something, you take fall damage as normal.
Yeah, in effect, it's a 'gauge' that you track along. In effect, it might help for each character to only keep a single damage token and move it along the path, up or down, as opposed to collecting several and taking them away.
More weird issue's with the game came up this weekend. The group likes it but has some fairly big flaws.
Black widow and panther can start adjacent to the relics in the guardians mission. They take em and run first turn. Pretty lame
When a building is destoryed and the model is on the ground floor they take no damage. Seems really odd a colpaseing building does nothing
When you sucessfully grab someone then fail to throw them at a enemy they just sit there. You missed so they should hit the ground randomly or something. There is also the issue with throwing a unconcious person as they still need to roll to grab them
str00dles1 wrote: More weird issue's with the game came up this weekend. The group likes it but has some fairly big flaws.
Black widow and panther can start adjacent to the relics in the guardians mission. They take em and run first turn. Pretty lame -a simple one sentence fix (which hopefully KM does) "characters may not interact with objects that give victory points on turn one.
When a building is destroyed and the model is on the ground floor they take no damage. Seems really odd a collapsing building does nothing - maybe do a skill test per level of the building...characters can use agility or strength +2D8 vs. a number? failure means you take X damage per floor?
When you sucessfully grab someone then fail to throw them at a enemy they just sit there. You missed so they should hit the ground randomly or something. There is also the issue with throwing a unconcious person as they still need to roll to grab them uh...I got nothing...maybe roll 2 dice use one for direction (where the point of the die...um...points) and one for inches?
sadly these are all house rules and I don't have anyway to communicate with KM...plus I hear they aren't too keen on people criticizing their rules...
Thanks for the rule reply. Issue is like you said its a bunch of house rules. Your rules make sense, just I don't want to make up target numbers as I could break the game.
Though realistically, since they released Groot and Gambit, and no villians yet its tempting to make villain stats
Automatically Appended Next Post: has anyone created a "full size" rulebook from the tiny one we get in the starters?
Hope so. I know its a small company but hoping they put the effort in to get stuff out soon as leaving it ages could be detrimental to the game. Hell even a starter and single blister.
Surprised this month with just 2 releases, could have repacked hulk with rules which would have done. Yes its more a batman release for this one bug would have been nice to see more.
Hopefully though next month will see a lot more marvel releases.
As for rulebook, not something I've seen. Fairly pointless too, to be fair
Someone made a full sized reference sheet, which is basically all the rules of the game on 2 pages. http://marvel-minis-gaming.proboards.com/ On one of the sub boards there. Only issue is they got flying wrong.
Automatically Appended Next Post: has anyone created a "full size" rulebook from the tiny one we get in the starters?
Hope so. I know its a small company but hoping they put the effort in to get stuff out soon as leaving it ages could be detrimental to the game. Hell even a starter and single blister.
Surprised this month with just 2 releases, could have repacked hulk with rules which would have done. Yes its more a batman release for this one bug would have been nice to see more.
Hopefully though next month will see a lot more marvel releases.
As for rulebook, not something I've seen. Fairly pointless too, to be fair
yeah their size is showing...they need a rapid increase in staffing and resources IMHO
If you move to a health bar that would reduce your power in the middle of the turn do you loose that power immediately or at the mext round
Also thors once a round attack. It pushes d8. Push in the book says its treated as also thrown. So if thor hits mot only do you take that damage but you take 4 more blunt from being thrown and your knocked down?
For the first one, I'm guessing the effects come into play immediately. It's possible to argue the other way (as you could read the Power stat as determining how much Power you gain at the start of a turn, rather than your actual amount) but that seems a bit more clunky.
On the second, I'm assuming there would be no extra damage or knockdown, simply on the grounds that the For Midgard attack is already exceptionally good with 4 Damage, Push and potentially Explosive. It would need a careful rechecking the rules to be sure, but a single attack dealing 8 Damage is pretty mental.
I think they're planning on FAQing the push back thing. - I believe the holding response though, is it's just a literal "push the person backwards" with the only real damage coming through if they end up getting pushed off of something rather tall.
The first one, I'm not so sure on, they did answer a similar question of, "what happens if you go into an area that gives you +1 power" where the answer was, it would only become relevant at the start of the turn. So I think the, "Power stat as determining how much power you gain at the start of the turn" is probably the more correct way. - With the exception of Leadership anyhow.
On that matter, I've not actually checked what the definition of "Max Power" is.
so far people's questions haven't been too complex...it looks like they didn't playtest very much (probably just used the same group tat runs their fan sites...too small a group)
Not saying the rules are bad...they are fine but these are questions that would come up in the first or second round of playtesting normally. worried about how badly tested the speedforce rules are in the DC game...
I think you're partly right. I think more of the problem is that they haven't done any, what I'd call 'contextless' playtesting.
So, people haven't like, just been handed the rules and told to 'go at it.' Probably all the playtesters have either seen the early drafts of the rules, or seen games played with the designers.
Without having just random people play the game without any outside instruction or help, it can be possibly just never occur to someone in the playtesting group to question, say, "Where exactly does the health counter go on the card?"
Because, they've always done it the way intended, because they've seen it being played that way.
Anyone know where to buy the spiderman miniatures game stuff from knight models in the usa? I would order from knight models but see that shipping is at least 20 euros to wisconsi. now, even if I order one mini! Miniature market and most others don't have the punisher, daredevil, etc anymore, or the new ones with cards.
Also, anyone know good sleeves (soft or hard) for the game cards? I saw some gameplay videos on ebay where a guy had his cards sleeved in hard plastic sleeves.
Sadly, you can't get the SMG models from anywhere other than KM. It's a big mistake, I think, and the reason that SMG hasn't taken off like BMG has... Some very questionable designs didn't help either, I reckon, but the lack of availability hasn't exactly done wonders for the game.
Can't help on specific sleeves, but have you tried Ebay? I was looking for some sleeves for my X-wing cards and found plenty of different types on there cheaply.
The biggest issue is balance yea. I was trying to keep him under Thor since hes the most powerful currently. Maybe level 11? I could do more STR less AGI
I used the marvel wiki as a reference and it gives a ability rating. Yea apparently hes really good hand to hand but I also don't see it. I wanted to do his time travel ability but I can see where it might be crazy. Such as someone hits you with a once a game like Rocket Racoon and you take 6 damage, he just heals the 6. (Not that ive ever see rocket hit with the plasma in any game ive played yet)
Feedback is appreciated though. I also did this. Idea is you have them en-mass and could activate a bunch in a row but easily killed.
In a surprising move, they've actually made two versions of Batman (AK and AC) better, with the addition of the Martial Expert rule, which grants a Crit on the colatteral damage die on a 4+ rather than a 6! Basically, a 50% chance to do an extra Stun damage!
Combo for AC Robin is nice, I've always found him a little lacking in combat so that's a welcome change.
Other surprising clarification is that models do not block LoS... seems a little odd to me, but whatever!
My LGS cannot get a small restock of the Marvel game and his distributors have no idea when one is coming...so...Marvel is dead in the store.
Also does anyone know when the Pre-order for the Flash/Arrow expansion for BMG ends? (also no information from distributors...KM needs to open up lines of communication,,,more than just some promotional stuff thrown at the ONE fan site these games have.
tpryan01 wrote: My LGS cannot get a small restock of the Marvel game and his distributors have no idea when one is coming...so...Marvel is dead in the store.
Also does anyone know when the Pre-order for the Flash/Arrow expansion for BMG ends? (also no information from distributors...KM needs to open up lines of communication,,,more than just some promotional stuff thrown at the ONE fan site these games have.
Yeah my local game store is having trouble getting in Marvel stock too.
Any thoughts on that welcome, I've not tested it yet and won't get to for a while, but the aim was to create a Free Agent anti-Batman while making him not just a reversal of once of the Batman stat cards, hence the much faster movement and Scheming trait.
I'm not saying you should have been banned and that Drew Wood didn't treat you like a spanker, but catching up through this thread you do mention KM's flaws a lot.
Wlla Holland" said wrote:"I would like (Thea) to be represented (in the game) as her bad*** self, holding it down for women like they on the show. And if they can incorporate some of her really cool swordplay and put a little bit more of it in the show, that'd be really cool too."
Bow with only a couple of bow shows, but with a Combo Katana, anyone?
Traits:
Martial Artist
Good Aim
Combo or Weapon Master with the Katana
Rapid Fire (just so she can get a bit more mileage out of the 2 Ammo bow)
Affinity: Malcolm Merlyn (come on KM, we need him in the game ASAP as an alternate Leader for the League!)
Somewhere in the 70-75 Rep Rating, as she's not as shooty as Arsenal nor as deadly up close as Katana, but occupies a space between the two. Also means her and Oliver make up a nice round 200 on their own.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, quick question for those with the Flarrow book, what are the 'environment/setting' rules for places like Lian Yu and Star City like? I'm not entirely sure how they'd impact the game beyond the type of terrain you'd put down.
Would be good to see more characters from the shows. But I'm not holding my breath
The rules for the different cities are pretty minor. Each city has 2 scenarios to play but they can easily be applied to any game.
Each city has a minor bonus for their hometown hero, so Gotham - Batman, Star City - Arrow, etc. Downside is then losing the hero is worth an extra VP.
Gotham - Extra crime: whoever gets first blood; casualty or arrested, gets extra VPs.
Star City - Extra crime: same as above. Star City has rules for air ducts which are basically like sewers, enter through one, exit through another.
Central City - has the air ducts like Star city and rules for daytime - on a 5+ increases LOS for the game.
Lian Yu - Fog - opposite of daytime, decreases LOS to 20cm. And like you said, terrain, no lamp posts or sewers of course. ALso a rule for scarce resources so loot, ammo and Titan are worth an extra VP.
Gorilla city - Hi Tech city so no sewers, instead you get teleport pads which you can activate and teleport between them, they're also bigger than sewers - 40mm bases it recommends. The lamp posts also have an increased radius of 15cm.
Nothing hugely game changing but can add a bit of variety.
Looks good, Paradigm. - Maybe add a rule of something like, "Bloodlust: If Thea is in base contact with an enemy model that is KO, she must pass a will check to move away from them."
I did something productive with my morning and made a scenario for the Marvel Universe game, heavily inspired by one from Deadzone 1st Edition.
Capture & Control
The game lasts 8 rounds, or until a player has 10 Victory points at the end of the "End of Round" stage.
Objectives are a "Size 2" Man-sized object that do not block line of sight. Each objective is secretly marked 1, 2 or 3. A model can spend 3 POW while in base contact with an objective to allow the controlling player to look at the number on the objective, placing it back, facedown.
Roll 1d4 to determine the starting corner for Player A. The opposite corner is Player B. Objectives are then shuffled and deployed facedown as per the map.
Each player secretly rolls 1d3 and records the result, concealing it from the other player. This is that players "Control" Objective. All others for that player are "Capture" objectives.
* 1 VP is gained each time for killing an enemy model.
** +1 VP if the enemy model has the "Leadership" or "Master Tactician" rules.
** +1 VP if it is the most expensive enemy model ( If there is a choice, your opponent declares which at the start of the game).
* Capture - If, at the beginning of the "End of Round" stage, you have a model within 2" of a Capture Objective and have no opposing models also within 2" of it, you count as having +1 VP per Capture Objective until the start of the next round.
* Control - If, at the beginning of the "End of Round" stage, you have a model within 2" of your Control Objective and have no opposing models also within 6" of it, you count as having +5 VP until the start of the next round.
If both players have 10 VP and the end of the same round, the game is a draw.
If you claim victory with 10 VP, you must reveal your 'Control Objective' note and turn over the objectives. - If you're wrong, you lose the game!
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I had a go at a multiplayer game too.
Make a Breach
The game lasts 6 rounds.
The central Objective (The Breach) is the size of a standard game base on ground level and no scenery or models can be placed within 6 inches of The Breach.
The player with the fewest models chooses their deployment zone first, second fewest next etc. If teams have equal models, then decide between those teams randomly. The side with the most models deploys theirs first model first, then working round to the fewest.
Each model begins the game carrying a single "Shaped Charge." A model cannot "Throw" anything else while carrying carrying a Shaped Charge. A "Shaped Charge" can be thrown at The Breach, as if it was an object thrown at an enemy model with a Defence of 14. If the Throw fails, the Charge is not discarded and can be Thrown again in a future Round. A model can choose to Discard their Charge from the game for the cost of 2 Power.
At the end of the Game:
* 1 VP for each Shaped Charge successfully thrown into the Breach by your team.
* 1 VP is awarded for each surviving model in your team.
** +1 VP if the model has the "Leadership" or "Master Tactician" rule.
** +1 VP if it is your most expensive model (If there is a choice, you choose which and inform the other players at the start of the game).
Alternative Game Mode: For a 4 player game, deploy in each corner, 6 inches from the corner point and 3 inches forward into the board.
I played my first full 50 point game today.
The Avengers (Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Black Panther, Vision ) against Wolverine, Colossus, Cyclops, Gambit, Deadpool, Nightcrawler and Emma Frost.
It was the survival mission, so killing Frost and Thor.
My Avengers were starting in the middle, the X-Men surrounding the. - Frost Wolverine and Colossus on one table edge. Gambit on another, Deadpool on a third and Cyclops and Nightcrawler on the 4th.
Overall, this whole surrounding idea my opponent had didn't seem like a good idea, my Avengers basically moved after Deadpool, leaving Frost and Colossus playing catch up, while Wolverine raced to keep up with my team. I think for survival, you need to pick one corner to deploy in and only maybe, just maybe, have a few flankers further up. Going for a full surrounding attempt just gets you picked off one at a time.
How it went:
Black Panther: First time using him and I was really rather impressed with him. He and Gambit basically had their own little duel. He infiltrated just out of stealth range, ran in to combat and killed Gambit pretty much solo by the end of round 3 only taking maybe 3 points of damage in return. - Gambit did have a few bad rolls though and I got a couple of crits in.
Gambit: Had a bad day, my opponent kept on leaving him too late in the round to activate, leaving BP to get the jump on him. He also decided to overload with his bo staff for extra damage a couple of times, rather than, what I would have done, backed off and flung cards at Panther. They say hindsight is 20/20 though. Generally speaking, Gambit would be one of my mainstays in my X-Men lists but I think this game just illustrated that he has to be near enough his own teammates that they can capitalise on his attack shifting capabilities. Isolated, he's just not good.
Nightcrawler: I was pretty darned impressed with him, way more than I expected to be as we weren't playing an objective based mission. He was responsible for 4 points of damage on Thor thanks to a critting sneak attack. On top of that, he managed to run off to decent cover afterwards too. - Starts off next to Cyclops, so 7 power. Bamfs in, 4 inches away from Thor, sneak attacks, then runs off 6 inches to safety. My opponent didn't use his multiple teleport though, which I think was a missed opportunity for someone.
Deadpool: Deadpool was disappointing, really. I don't know what happened to be honest, he just seemed to shed a bunch of hitpoints almost immediately then fell unconscious. I've seen him do wonders with his katana's, but he didn't even get into close combat that game.
Hawkeye: Holy *flip* Hawkeye was brilliant, way, way better than I expected. Ultimately he was the artifact of Deadpools demise, taking his last hit point with a plain boring 1 damage arrow. An attack value of 8 is just insane. Deadpool down on the ground, unconscious and I completely fluffed my roll, yet it was *still* enough to kill him. He's like the Avengers answer to Cyclops. Then, in that same turn, he followed up and did enough damage to Wolverine too to knock him from pink to red, and therefore knocking him out. Sure, Hawkeye's attacks may not do much damage but an attack at just the right time can make the world of difference. Especially if he's getting covered by Cap. I am legitimately looking at taking him in every future list now.
Emma Frost: First time I've seen Emma in action and I'm kind of unsure about her. I think my opponent managed to hurt himself with his deployment. Both she and Colossus had a very, very long walk into the fight, especially as the fight moved away from them. She didn't even get to use most of her psychic abilities until Round 4-ish. Until then, it was just running forward and a single psychic bolt doing 1 damage. When she got into 6 inches though, her various shenanigans got into play and she seemed more of a force to be reckoned with. My opponent did separate her from Colossus a little too often though, and with a defence of 14 she was very badly focused down and was finished off by Thors "Call the Lightning." - Something that couldn't have happened if she was nearer a Colossus who still had enough power counters left.
Last new guy on the board was Vision. and, well, I'm kinda unsure of him. He fees like "Rogue" in a lot of ways, very difficult to fit into a standard RPG "slot" (EG Hawkeye is Ranged DPS, Colossus is a tank). He certainly made his presence known from tossing crates and barrels at Deadpool to throwing a shipping container at Wolverine doing a whole heap of damage on him He was also good for this scenario, palling around with Thor, able to bodyguard some heat off of him, allowing Cap to look after Iron Man and Hawkeye.
My takeaway thoughts for the game at 50 points was I was *really* surprised at how bloody it was. It might have been the nature of the scenario but having 7 guys on the board and being able to focus fire with them meant that a lot of damage could be done on a character very quickly in a single turn. - For example, a size 1 crate throw on Deadpool, combined with a "For Midguard" from Thor and topped off with several arrows from Hawkeye and some blasts from Iron Man in a single turn means that a *very* significant portion of a characters health can be taken out very quickly.
I think maybe with the game going forward, being more cagey about lines of approach and Line of Sight might be a much bigger deal than in the starter set games, where there's usually only 1 ranged character to particularly worry about.
Played X-Men vs Guardians today, starter sets only. There were two objectives, and my opponent went after one while I kept trying to take his fighters out of play. Now, we played just to have fun, including him letting a Wolverine/Colossus fastball special go off when he could have stopped it, because it was iconic and he wanted to experience it; even though it cost Gamora 5 health (she got dropped off a high section when hit). We made a few errors as we were first learning, nothing that would have been an absolute disaster, but it made for an even game. I also learned that cyclops is not as accurate when shooting at a fleeing raccoon as he should be! All in all, the game is fantastic amounts of fun, and I'm hooked.
). Both of those might well be instant buys for me unless the sculpts are poor.
And I wanna focus on Swampy for at least my next handful of games! 
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