This thread continues where the original thread has come to an end. Many exalts to PrimalExile for his initial work. The thread is dead. Long live the thread.


Kickstarter Link
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/warpath-the-sci-fi-battle-game/description

Current Stretch Goal:



Sweet spot pledge level:



$75 add-ons, one included in the sweet spot:





Full list of stretch goals:














...230K GBP ('fake') stretch for Plague heavy weapons, no stretch goal image.









GCPS metal character, added to BG.


Enforcer Breach and Eradicate team, metal upgrade components




$450.000 USD

I dropped my pledge, that other guys poor job at running the thread killed it for me.
Mantic, almost.

:O that's a new reason for Azazeling a pledge to me. Okay, no pressure then

Working on the TS, I'm not sure carbon copying the updates is the way to go so I'm trying something different.

I've gotta admit, I'm kinda hesitant about warpath myself. - Well, I say hesitant, but I know that I'm going to be in for, at the very least, the $50 pledge and a bunch of vehicles, just for my pre-existing Enforcer army (Currently sitting on an early bird right now).

But, the more I play other games, the more I come round to thinking that the 40k scale of things is just fundamentally flawed as a concept. - This goes doubly true for 40k itself but, I just didn't know any better. The scales just physically can't match up, not matter the ruleset. - Square peg, round hole, basically.

And none of this is Mantic's fault, really. To be honest, I don't think they've planned huge projections for this kickstarter, as I think they know this too.

So I think what we're going to get is the best that mantic can manage for, what they even understand, is an ultimately flawed concept for a game.

 Compel wrote:
I've gotta admit, I'm kinda hesitant about warpath myself. - Well, I say hesitant, but I know that I'm going to be in for, at the very least, the $50 pledge and a bunch of vehicles, just for my pre-existing Enforcer army (Currently sitting on an early bird right now).

But, the more I play other games, the more I come round to thinking that the 40k scale of things is just fundamentally flawed as a concept. - This goes doubly true for 40k itself but, I just didn't know any better. The scales just physically can't match up, not matter the ruleset. - Square peg, round hole, basically.

And none of this is Mantic's fault, really. To be honest, I don't think they've planned huge projections for this kickstarter, as I think they know this too.

So I think what we're going to get is the best that mantic can manage for, what they even understand, is an ultimately flawed concept for a game.

I suspect they are actually aiming for a certain range; not below, but not that much over either. Just fill a couple production slots they have sculpts ready for; with HIPS production they will have to account for that sort of pipeline.
As for the rules/scale issue, well, the more tactically challenging game would likely be had at 6-15mm - however, I really like painting 28mm infantry. 15mm not so much, and I suspect I'm hardly the only one who feels like that. It is a bit of a compromise, sure - but there's just nowhere near the fun to be had on the modelling side of things (infantrywise, that is) when you scale stuff down. So as long as we want to play something at solid platoon-strength and up levels, we're stuck with this situation.

As for your pledge, well: since you'd be paying $30 for a vehicle anyway it's just $45 (or $35 since you have an EB!) for one of those army sets - and that's a steal. If you're going for the enforcer vehicles in particular: even if the 'bunch' of vehicles were to be just two of them, you could get another two (plus those idiotic exclusive vehicle bits... seriously Mantic?!?) for just $5 more. I'd stick with the EB sweet spot if I were you!

So what are you saying Compel, that if we want to play a hundred plus man engagement we need to use 6-15mm models? Or am I misinterpreting you? Makes some sense if I'm reading it right.

I'm leaning towards skirmish myself honestly. But I 'grew up on' 40k and honestly I could still have fun playing such a game in a similar setting. Though. Really. If someone starts making awesome 10-15mm scifi minis and has good rules for them... I always wanted to try making scenery on that scale. Have your wee little units breaching wee little buildings and such, it would be adorable.

But lately I'm a painter first and eventually I'm going to have armies of stuff. I prefer 28mm for painting so far so I'm gonna have 28mm armies. So I'll appreciate having some rules to use with them.

--edit-- bolognesus kind of said what I said but more succinctly. I think 15mm could be fun to play but 28mm is better for painting (for me).

Also, like with most Mantic kickstarters, at this point I agree that doubling up an early bird is probably going to become the go-to method for maximizing goodies.

Mantic's lovely fethhuge images are going to make this a beast of an OP to scroll through no matter what I do.

Anyway, I always loved SS's KS bundle value summaries (I'm sure we all fondly remember that KoW1 thread OP!) so I'd say it'd be a good idea to do one here. One problem, though: what base price/unit to go with?
My thought would be to go with realistic prices from earlier KS(s) where there's no individual add-on price for the model or unit in this one, and skip the deals like 20 for $20 we likely won't be getting again.
Essentially: $10 for 5 regular enforcers or peacekeepers, $15 for 10 pathfinders + 2 dog drones, $15 for a strider (realizing that that one in particular is a bit of a made up number), $10 for two jetbikes etc.
Before I start digging into the two factions for which I can't remotely do this from memory, if anyone has a better suggestion please speak up. If not I'll get on that tomorrow or so.

I think we all know there's gonna be a 3 for 2 battlegroups pledge level come the first big stall in the funding

 Compel wrote:
I've gotta admit, I'm kinda hesitant about warpath myself. - Well, I say hesitant, but I know that I'm going to be in for, at the very least, the $50 pledge and a bunch of vehicles, just for my pre-existing Enforcer army (Currently sitting on an early bird right now).

But, the more I play other games, the more I come round to thinking that the 40k scale of things is just fundamentally flawed as a concept. - This goes doubly true for 40k itself but, I just didn't know any better. The scales just physically can't match up, not matter the ruleset. - Square peg, round hole, basically.

And none of this is Mantic's fault, really. To be honest, I don't think they've planned huge projections for this kickstarter, as I think they know this too.

So I think what we're going to get is the best that mantic can manage for, what they even understand, is an ultimately flawed concept for a game.

I don't disagree. Since the beginning of Warpath it has seemed like it was intended to be what 40k used to be pre-apocalypse. That mutated over time I guess, but I've always felt like 6-15mm were best for large scale (I still play Epic:Apocalypse now and then and have recently started my 15mm army for Gruntz).

I don't know that flawed concepts is as much of their problem though as simple communication is to avoid misplaced expectations.

As it stands, I think people were looking to DZ to be Killteam or Necromunda but Mantic and WP to be 40k.. but.. Mantic (same for KoW and WHFB). I don't know why I (or anyone) has expected this to change. Until now, I've been looking for enough similarities for me to convince myself to stay on board but I'm just really not there with it. I like enough of their models to buy them for other stuff but I think I've just convinced myself that Mantic is just on a different (and for me unappealing) wavelength as far as game development.

I'm hopeful enough to give the Firefight rules a chance but I think it's pretty obvious that I'm skeptical by now.

Basically, kinda yeah.

Though my main plan at the moment would be to go for the $50 pledge, plus the Vehicle bundles they'll put out at some point.

But yeah, basically, for the past couple of years I've been dabbling in Dropzone Commander, which is 10mm and yeah, that, or, in the interests of unbiasedness, similarly scaled games, feel at the level that the 40k type games 'should' be. Because having hundred plus sci fi soldiers, plus a half dozen large vehicles on a 6' by 4' is just, like I said, a flawed concept, can't physically work properly.

Square peg, round hole.

 GrimDork wrote:
So what are you saying Compel, that if we want to play a hundred plus man engagement we need to use 6-15mm models? Or am I misinterpreting you? Makes some sense if I'm reading it right.

I'm leaning towards skirmish myself honestly. But I 'grew up on' 40k and honestly I could still have fun playing such a game in a similar setting. Though. Really. If someone starts making awesome 10-15mm scifi minis and has good rules for them... I always wanted to try making scenery on that scale. Have your wee little units breaching wee little buildings and such, it would be adorable.

But lately I'm a painter first and eventually I'm going to have armies of stuff. I prefer 28mm for painting so far so I'm gonna have 28mm armies. So I'll appreciate having some rules to use with them.

--edit-- bolognesus kind of said what I said but more succinctly. I think 15mm could be fun to play but 28mm is better for painting (for me).

Also, like with most Mantic kickstarters, at this point I agree that doubling up an early bird is probably going to become the go-to method for maximizing goodies.

I don't want to drag this off course but 15mm has some pretty amazing stuff out these days thanks to 3d printers. I won't go into full details but Gruntz is a very flexible ruleset with mechanics that Warmahorde players should pick up quickly and 40k players won't be far behind. I was kinda hoping Mantic would be going that route for the huuuuge scale side of this tbh. They did flirt with the idea of 10mm but either way, I really like small to medium sized engagements for 28mm. If anything, for the amount of space it's supposed to occupy to scale with the real world. Scaled up it would be maybe a block or two.

Any vehicle bundle is likely to be a battlegroup. That means that either at $75 for the BG plus $50 for the basic pledge you won't be any cheaper off than with the sweet spot, and if you get the EB it's $10 cheaper already. Add to that the free vehicle and pretty much anyone who wants both rules and vehicles is extremely likely to be better off with the sweet spot pledge than with the $50 one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLaw wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
So what are you saying Compel, that if we want to play a hundred plus man engagement we need to use 6-15mm models? Or am I misinterpreting you? Makes some sense if I'm reading it right.

I'm leaning towards skirmish myself honestly. But I 'grew up on' 40k and honestly I could still have fun playing such a game in a similar setting. Though. Really. If someone starts making awesome 10-15mm scifi minis and has good rules for them... I always wanted to try making scenery on that scale. Have your wee little units breaching wee little buildings and such, it would be adorable.

But lately I'm a painter first and eventually I'm going to have armies of stuff. I prefer 28mm for painting so far so I'm gonna have 28mm armies. So I'll appreciate having some rules to use with them.

--edit-- bolognesus kind of said what I said but more succinctly. I think 15mm could be fun to play but 28mm is better for painting (for me).

Also, like with most Mantic kickstarters, at this point I agree that doubling up an early bird is probably going to become the go-to method for maximizing goodies.

I don't want to drag this off course but 15mm has some pretty amazing stuff out these days thanks to 3d printers. I won't go into full details but Gruntz is a very flexible ruleset with mechanics that Warmahorde players should pick up quickly and 40k players won't be far behind. I was kinda hoping Mantic would be going that route for the huuuuge scale side of this tbh. They did flirt with the idea of 10mm but either way, I really like small to medium sized engagements for 28mm. If anything, for the amount of space it's supposed to occupy to scale with the real world. Scaled up it would be maybe a block or two.

Level of detail is one thing, I'd like to be able to actually put a brush to it and not need a magnifying glass to see even half the detail even if I somehow manage to get it painted at half the size. Different considerations here

 judgedoug wrote:

Don't you realize Squig that when one must take an anti-Mantic position they must contort themselves in all manner of strange shapes in order to justify their beliefs
"Oh the glory days of restic! Those were the days! Not this hard plastic nonsense now! Mantic... almost"

Sad as it is, Restic appears to be the better medium for some models. Ogre-Troll-Golem sized models that don't suffer as much from shrinkage. etc - especially those that are not over-detailed. The problem is that Mantic went all-in on Restic for everything - so we all got way too many small and fiddly models, with mould lines across faces in what is a pretty awful material for things like that - which resulted in so much backlash that they've cut it out entirely and to offer it again, even for material-appropriate figures like that huge golem for KoW would result in more backlash from consumers who they managed to turn off the material entirely. (And yeah, that is their own fault).

Obviously hard plastic is the best solution for their mass-produced models, but metal has a place for people like you and myself who weren't brought up playing exclusively with GW's plastic kits. Unfortunately Hybrid models and metals have their own drawbacks if not planned properly. Examples include the wings on the Basiliean Character models from KoW1 (good luck pinning those! Dremel included in every kit?) and now, as already stated - metal jump packs on plastic figures - what could possibley go wrong?

Of course, I consider myself to have more of a critical stance than an anti-Mantic one. We'll see what the rules end up being like, though I may end up like their office Jetbike players and just use their models for 40k instead... At worst I get some Not-marines and Not-Squats.

Bolog, I shot you a PM as to not de-rail I definitely agree on the painting side too btw.

I'm going to go work on getting my game room done so I can actually push some model plastic dudesmen around now.

We're pretty close to the next SG, hopefully it'll be done by the time I'm back

Fired one back. I think we might have actually found an issue we don't even disagree on

And yes, fisty dwarfs incoming - all hail the top-heavy stunties!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Azazelx
IME a tactful blob of steel epoxy fixed those metal Elohi wings pretty well. I'd almost be more worried about the ankles of those models. Besides, if you absolutely must pin, Mantic's metals are generally quite soft and easy to drill into so you shouldn't need a dremel; a pin vice should suffice. IIRC those wings were pretty thick so it shouldn't be too hard to drill into.

Of all the quirks that first KoW KS turned out to produce I'm somewhat bemused how it's those angel characters that seem to keep coming up

I do agree with you when it comes to restic for larger models - I would have very much preferred the upcoming zombie trolls to have been restic rather than metal for example: cheaper and more convenient, and the lesser chance of damage in use or transport will on balance have them looking better as well.

And I'm subscribed to the Mantic Warpath KS thread... again!

Even with all the stretch goals, my feelings haven't changed: I'm pledging for just the rules, and waiting to see what they come up with for Asterians.

Man, as much stuff as ended up going into the Dungeon Saga KS, if I kickstarter this one my plastic mountain may tip over and cause an earthquake. . .

And we have 20 for $20 deals (once funded at $225k,)

I'm having some trouble convincing myself that dude in the top right is not wearing a bowler hat anyway, OP updated, I'm off.

Very pleased to see 20 for $20 return.

Indeed! I don't *love* the plague bundle, but it seems like a decent deal. 60 hard plastic infantry, 6 restic ogre-sized monsters, two even bigger restic monsters too. Man... volume-wise the plague BG is the best hands-down. 68 minis, almost down to a dollar/mini already and the terraton/1st gen are really chunky minis.

A little unsure of the disposition. I'm sure a 40/20 split is just fine for zombies/warriors, but I've already got 90something plague zombies and only 20-30 warriors (forget how many you get in two strike teams plus whatever else I wound up with) so it'll be 130/50. I guess if I just order one 20/$20 it'll be about the same split so not a big deal.


Oh also, I just realized in that update. Am I reading it correctly that the $15 drop-fathers set is for six forge guard with the metal bits, and not just for the metal bits? If the case, such a good deal.

What are the 20 for $20 deals?

Lemme dig up the photo.


It was a teeny bit different in the DZ:I kickstarter (I think the first price was $10 not $8) but basically the deal on infantry gets better the more you buy up till they're a dollar a piece in batches of 20. It's just on that new unit so far, but I suspect we may see more of the same in the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's an interesting commissar style cap, I must say.

Ah, thanks - I see it now - I am not sure how I missed it...

Off to bed for me then!

 GrimDork wrote:
Oh also, I just realized in that update. Am I reading it correctly that the $15 drop-fathers set is for six forge guard with the metal bits, and not just for the metal bits? If the case, such a good deal.

It establishes a pattern for metal-upgraded hard plastic units, since it follows the identical pricing of the Veer-myn creepers. Looks like we can expect $15 to be the standard for that, if there are any more metal / hard plastic hybrid variant kits like it coming. I have mixed feelings about hybrid metal / hard plastic, but I think the pricing is spot on. Even if I don't like the metal bits, I'm still getting good Forge Guard hp models for a good price. And if I do like the metal bits, so much the better.

I'd usually be weary of plastic/metal conversions (I still have nightmares about the original 40k Hellhound, the first GW kit I built), but replacement tops and arms for the Forge Guard shouldn't be an issue with unbalancing nor difficulty attaching.

Yeah, I don't want to go add-on heavy but the main things holding me back from that set was thinking it was *just* the metal bits for 3 dollars a pop, and also having to give up 6 of my 12 forge guard. But bumping the number up to 18 isn't excessive and it's a neat unit. Deep striking terminators aren't anything new, but they do it differently and come with different gear so I'll bite.

Arg, the Plague bundle will mostly be zombies. Guess what I bought a crapload of..
*facepalm*

If they do combo booster bundles to mix and match later on, that would be swell. Otherwise I'm probably stuck just doing add-ons. Ugh..

I had intended to buy the Plague Battlegroup, but I have 95 Zombies, 22 Stage 2's, a Stage 1 and a Teraton already.

I'm just gonna get a couple of 20 for $20 Stage 3 bundles instead. They look great!

 Alex C wrote:
I had intended to buy the Plague Battlegroup, but I have 95 Zombies, 22 Stage 2's, a Stage 1 and a Teraton already.

I'm just gonna get a couple of 20 for $20 Stage 3 bundles instead. They look great!

Do we know what the thing on that one guy's head is? Have any pictures of the sprues been floating around? If it's a commissar or biker hat that's great..but... also not great.. though.. I can't say I don't have plenty of heads to swap for it

I'm pretty sure it looks like a flat top commissar hat to me, though I'm not sure who else in the fluff would have such a hat.

I'm sure we'll get at least 6-7 heads on the sprue, surely.

 GrimDork wrote:
I'm pretty sure it looks like a flat top commissar hat to me, though I'm not sure who else in the fluff would have such a hat.

I'm sure we'll get at least 6-7 heads on the sprue, surely.

Probably, though I'm sure I could get away with swapping in some of the heads from the zombie sprues I have laying around everywhere.

Yeah that will probably work too. Unless they realized they made the helmeted zombie heads double-size and wisely scaled them back. But the other zombie heads would probably work.

Where's my one of everything pledge?

so in the plague battlegroup, everything is resin, metal, or restic except the new 3rd gens correct?

 keltikhoa wrote:
so in the plague battlegroup, everything is resin, metal, or restic except the new 3rd gens correct?

That's my understanding.
EDIT: Below someone points out that the zombies were too, slipped me mind.. that's it.. off to bed with me..

 pretre wrote:
Where's my one of everything pledge?

Probably closer to the middle/end of the KS I bet!

As for the earlier discussion - I think 28mm is no better or worse than 15mm for these types of games at the level they're aiming for. Heck, people play and seem to enjoy Apoc (I don't, personally), but it's really different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I am not a fan of 15mm (or smaller), simply because the detail is lacking - or it's so microscopic one needs a magnifying glass to see it. I played Epic for several editions, and simply grew out of it. Maybe I just got older and my vision got worse to the point where I was looking at tiny bundles of red fighting tiny bundles of green. There's little draw in that for me.

Some obviously want the maximum 'tactical challenge' they can find in a game, and they feel 15mm (or smaller) offers them that. I like that myself - but I am more about the aesthetic, and to me in that regard 15mm just doesn't compare to 28/32mm. I've scoped out DZC and even dabbled in DW and they were just 'meh' looking to me.

Obviously that doesn't mean Mantic's offerings are miniature Van Goghs on the tabletop. But I like enough of them to buy-in, and I have high hopes for Firefight. Warpath may or may not 'go over' very well, but I have a feeling the skirmish game will attract my attention more anyway. I'll be giving both a shot, though.

-Mort

The 40 zombies are hard plastic too. 60 hard plastic minis with 6 restic ogres sized models and two larger restic dudes. The restic is less of an issue on bigger stuff usually.

 Mort wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Where's my one of everything pledge?

Probably closer to the middle/end of the KS I bet!

As for the earlier discussion - I think 28mm is no better or worse than 15mm for these types of games at the level they're aiming for. Heck, people play and seem to enjoy Apoc (I don't, personally), but it's really different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I am not a fan of 15mm (or smaller), simply because the detail is lacking - or it's so microscopic one needs a magnifying glass to see it. I played Epic for several editions, and simply grew out of it. Maybe I just got older and my vision got worse to the point where I was looking at tiny bundles of red fighting tiny bundles of green. There's little draw in that for me.

Some obviously want the maximum 'tactical challenge' they can find in a game, and they feel 15mm (or smaller) offers them that. I like that myself - but I am more about the aesthetic, and to me in that regard 15mm just doesn't compare to 28/32mm. I've scoped out DZC and even dabbled in DW and they were just 'meh' looking to me.

Obviously that doesn't mean Mantic's offerings are miniature Van Goghs on the tabletop. But I like enough of them to buy-in, and I have high hopes for Firefight. Warpath may or may not 'go over' very well, but I have a feeling the skirmish game will attract my attention more anyway. I'll be giving both a shot, though.

-Mort

It's accurate to say that the details can get lost at that scale. Just remember though that if you have 150 28mm models on the table a)painting those details becomes mind numbing and b)when both sides have that much down, it's very hard to see those details as they are lost in the sea of minis. As someone who has built and painted Orcs, Orks, and Imperial Guard (2 different armies) and lord knows how many other hundreds of models over the years, I welcome the break. At the 15mm scale there's a lot more big vehicles and mechs too and that's where a lot of painters find their place it seems. That said, I really don't think Mantic is going smaller scale any time soon. As a fun experiment though, I think I might try the Warpath Alpha rules with some of my 15mm models.. could be interesting

 MLaw wrote:
Arg, the Plague bundle will mostly be zombies. Guess what I bought a crapload of..
*facepalm*

If they do combo booster bundles to mix and match later on, that would be swell. Otherwise I'm probably stuck just doing add-ons. Ugh..

I was thinking the same thing, but 20 for $20 is good enough replacement for a bundle. Add of the eventual 8 dollar character and you can get sixty dudes and a character for 7 dollars less than a bundle.

I figured I'd give this thread a chance and go back in for a dollar, but if it dies, I'm out!

Ha ha ha, I totally avoided the Plague Zombies in the two DZ KS, so I could totally get the Plague battlegroup now if I wanted.

But I won't, because I don't like the Plague Zombies

20 stage 3s sounds great, though. Especially after the next fake stretch goal, when we unlock a plague hound or two on the same sprue.

Yep next up is the heavy weapons -HMG, Grenade Launcher and probably the Mortar that will probably take another $10k or so and then they may add 2 hounds to the sprue for another $10k or so. Looking at the pathfinder and night crawler sprues that should all fit on the one sprue. That will probably bring us up to $250k

 Alex C wrote:
I had intended to buy the Plague Battlegroup, but I have 95 Zombies, 22 Stage 2's, a Stage 1 and a Teraton already.

I'm just gonna get a couple of 20 for $20 Stage 3 bundles instead. They look great!

Yeah, just getting the $20 for 20 deal is better if you went big on Deadzone.

There's also the $40 for 3 Plague Striders bundle as well to add some armour.

Hopefully they add in the Aberration as a bundle deal.

This is going to be an expensive KS for me, even just with the focus on Enforcers and Forgefathers.

Already wanting both battlegroups and a forgefather vehicle bundle.

I'd want the Enforcer vehicle bundle as well if it wasn't for the annoying restriction on the Arbiter upgrade... the vehicles are something I will definitely want to magnetize between all three variants, and if at retail they don't sell upgrade bits separately, I'm screwed.

At the moment Enforcers have a severe lack of anti-tank, the only thing they have is their 4x missile launcher team (which at the moment can only be bought by buying 4 lots of the restic deadzone starter set). so, that arbiter upgrade is going to be prety crucial.

I'm kind of liking the plague now...

I've always wanted a Plague Zombie army, going back to the Eye of Terror Codex Lost and the Damned list. I grabbed 80 (!) of the plague zombies in DZ1, and they're still sitting politely on sprues. Either the Battlegroup or a collection of bundles could really flesh out a nice Plague army!

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!

On the whole scale thing - did nobody pick up on the fact that the rulebook will contain rules for playing at 10mm?

There's more Enforcer stuff to come presumably metal upgrades for the plastic kits

The Enforcer Missile Team and a Tank Hunter team are on the way too.

Tank hunters have thermal rifles and mines if I recall correctly

It's nice that the rules will support 10 mm, however where am I supposed to get the models from that match the warpath aesthetic and unit stats/options/etc ? I'm sure it will be a handy foot note or maybe page, but without mantic models to back it up...

 GrimDork wrote:
It's nice that the rules will support 10 mm, however where am I supposed to get the models from that match the warpath aesthetic and unit stats/options/etc ? I'm sure it will be a handy foot note or maybe page, but without mantic models to back it up...

I suspect there is a plan, it seems unlikely it was just thrown in.

If mantic starts pumping out 10mm stuff someday, even as another kickstarter, I'll probably jump on it. Right now it's too nebulous for me to be comforted by it, we're already having to take firefight's mechanics on faith.

I'm not trying to be overly negative, but something like a line of 10mm troops i'll need concrete evidence before I get enthusiastic, and if we're aren't planning to see even marauders or possibly rebs in this campaign, I'm pretty sure no alternate model sizes will show up.


Total seems to have gotten a boost with the plague bundle, maybe we'll get far enough along to unlock the next total and the next thing will also be inspiring.

 mattjgilbert wrote:
On the whole scale thing - did nobody pick up on the fact that the rulebook will contain rules for playing at 10mm?

I noticed it and mentioned it in the now closed topic.

A 10mm starter box with a couple armies in it would get my money.

 Bolognesus wrote:

@Azazelx
IME a tactful blob of steel epoxy fixed those metal Elohi wings pretty well. I'd almost be more worried about the ankles of those models. Besides, if you absolutely must pin, Mantic's metals are generally quite soft and easy to drill into so you shouldn't need a dremel; a pin vice should suffice. IIRC those wings were pretty thick so it shouldn't be too hard to drill into.

Of all the quirks that first KoW KS turned out to produce I'm somewhat bemused how it's those angel characters that seem to keep coming up

I do agree with you when it comes to restic for larger models - I would have very much preferred the upcoming zombie trolls to have been restic rather than metal for example: cheaper and more convenient, and the lesser chance of damage in use or transport will on balance have them looking better as well.

This stuff?
http://www.selleys.com.au/putty/epoxy/knead-it-steel/

It's a fair enough thing that those models keep coming up. They're not exactly designed for ease of user-accessibility, are they? I mean - steel epoxy is hardly standard in the miniature modeller's toolkit. A bit more forethought on Mantic's part would have made them so much easier as models. Much deeper sinks for the wings, like they figured out way back in, I dunno, the 1980's would have made it a moot point without a need for dremels, pin vices, drilling or steel epoxy.

I actually have a few types of steel epoxy, a putty you knead and a couple types of JB Weld.

JB Weld is great for attaching metal wheels to resin vehicles for example, giving a VERY strong bond to a part that superglues never seem to work well for me.



But they see use for more than just hobby purposes. They come in handy for repairs on various things.

 CptJake wrote:

 mattjgilbert wrote:
On the whole scale thing - did nobody pick up on the fact that the rulebook will contain rules for playing at 10mm?

I noticed it and mentioned it in the now closed topic.

A 10mm starter box with a couple armies in it would get my money.

Yeah, I'm not interested in playing epic at 28mm scale, but at a smaller scale... particularly if it were cross-compatable (within reason) with my FoW terrain

 Azazelx wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

@Azazelx
IME a tactful blob of steel epoxy fixed those metal Elohi wings pretty well. I'd almost be more worried about the ankles of those models. Besides, if you absolutely must pin, Mantic's metals are generally quite soft and easy to drill into so you shouldn't need a dremel; a pin vice should suffice. IIRC those wings were pretty thick so it shouldn't be too hard to drill into.

Of all the quirks that first KoW KS turned out to produce I'm somewhat bemused how it's those angel characters that seem to keep coming up

I do agree with you when it comes to restic for larger models - I would have very much preferred the upcoming zombie trolls to have been restic rather than metal for example: cheaper and more convenient, and the lesser chance of damage in use or transport will on balance have them looking better as well.

This stuff?
http://www.selleys.com.au/putty/epoxy/knead-it-steel/

It's a fair enough thing that those models keep coming up. They're not exactly designed for ease of user-accessibility, are they? I mean - steel epoxy is hardly standard in the miniature modeller's toolkit. A bit more forethought on Mantic's part would have made them so much easier as models. Much deeper sinks for the wings, like they figured out way back in, I dunno, the 1980's would have made it a moot point without a need for dremels, pin vices, drilling or steel epoxy.

Mine comes in liquid form, but that'll do. It's not expensive and as cptjake mentions it gets plenty of use in modelling. If it was expensive or exotic I might agree with you but this really is neither. Besides a pin vice it's fairly standard kit and these wings were easily thick enough for pinning...

Personally, I have no interest in a 10mm game. The only detail that can be made out will be on vehicles. That would be a Mantic kickstarted I'd sit out on.

I'm a painter and modeler first, gamer second. 10mm gets a huge pass from me.

They might as well make a space fleet game, too, while they're at it.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They might as well make a space fleet game, too, while they're at it.

I'm sure they will, along with a fantasy skirmish game, and a fantasy naval game...

 Alex C wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They might as well make a space fleet game, too, while they're at it.

I'm sure they will, along with a fantasy skirmish game, and a fantasy naval game...

Or a fantasy skirmish naval game in space!?! What could possibly go wrong if you put in all that cool stuff together in one package?!?! It ticks every box!

Omg, there needs to be a Spelljammer game.

 Bolognesus wrote:

Mine comes in liquid form, but that'll do. It's not expensive and as cptjake mentions it gets plenty of use in modelling. If it was expensive or exotic I might agree with you but this really is neither. Besides a pin vice it's fairly standard kit and these wings were easily thick enough for pinning...

Nah, not exactly standard kit. I've never even heard of it for modelling and I've been doing this for 30+ years now, including quite some time on the interwebs. Kneadatite or Milliput or Plastic Putty, sure. Steel Epoxy? Nah, far from it. I do appreciate the heads-up and I'll probably grab some tomorrow. But neither that nor "you can pin them" is any excuse for the gakky wings on the Angels "out of the box", though.

Like, I can appreciate the advice from you, but let's not make excuses for bad design, is all. I'm just as critical of other companies' kits when appropriate, so Mantic don't get a free pass either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alex C wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They might as well make a space fleet game, too, while they're at it.

I'm sure they will, along with a fantasy skirmish game, and a fantasy naval game...

What about rebooting Kings of War as a Fantasy Skirmish game?

Just destroy Mantica in the summer campaign and reboot as skirmish with barely any rules. Seems legit.

 pretre wrote:
Omg, there needs to be a Spelljammer game.

There was a kickstarter earlier in the year for a similar type of game. The space-ships were pretty sweet.

 pretre wrote:
Omg, there needs to be a Spelljammer game.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/595589/wildspace-game-never-was-released

 Azazelx wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

Mine comes in liquid form, but that'll do. It's not expensive and as cptjake mentions it gets plenty of use in modelling. If it was expensive or exotic I might agree with you but this really is neither. Besides a pin vice it's fairly standard kit and these wings were easily thick enough for pinning...

Nah, not exactly standard kit. I've never even heard of it for modelling and I've been doing this for 30+ years now, including quite some time on the interwebs. Kneadatite or Milliput or Plastic Putty, sure. Steel Epoxy? Nah, far from it. I do appreciate the heads-up and I'll probably grab some tomorrow. But neither that nor "you can pin them" is any excuse for the gakky wings on the Angels "out of the box", though.

Like, I can appreciate the advice from you, but let's not make excuses for bad design, is all. I'm just as critical of other companies' kits when appropriate, so Mantic don't get a free pass either.

I'm just surprised that in 30+ years of, I'm guessing, assembling more than a few large metal models these stood out as unusually poor. If nothing else, having to pin large metal parts is a basic assumption as far as I'm concerned, and it's not as if these are line infantry models, or particularly hard to pin (on the contrary). Oh well.

As for the steel epoxy, get some of this stuff http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__81630__EV5_20G_5_Min_Steel_Filler_Epoxy_Glue_AU_Warehouse_.html
(I prefer HK's own brand which is even cheaper, but it's not available from AU warehouse so shipping would kill it).
I don't think it's *strictly* the same thing as the sort of kneadable steel epoxy you'd use for non modelling purposes (as CptJake mentioned) - I would rather use JB weld to fix a water pipe or something like that - but this will do fine for modelling and it saves a fair buck vs JBweld etc

 Azazelx wrote:
Nah, not exactly standard kit. I've never even heard of it for modelling and I've been doing this for 30+ years now, including quite some time on the interwebs. Kneadatite or Milliput or Plastic Putty, sure. Steel Epoxy?

I just got a pack of it meself, for quickly sticking and coating wire armatures, and hopefully being vulcanising-resistant too. Though, for sticking troublesome minis, does it have to be steel epoxy as opposed to any other liquid epoxy adhesive? (I've found the superglue|putty|superglue sandwich fairly useful for that, anyway)

Nah, far from it. I do appreciate the heads-up and I'll probably grab some tomorrow. But neither that nor "you can pin them" is any excuse for the gakky wings on the Angels "out of the box", though.

Like, I can appreciate the advice from you, but let's not make excuses for bad design, is all. I'm just as critical of other companies' kits when appropriate, so Mantic don't get a free pass either.

Agreed there.

Something vaguely on-topic... um... I agree with GrimDork. If Mantic put out some 10mm minis for the proposed Warpath conversion, I'd be a lot more interested. As it is, it sounds a bit like a footnote to a footnote (the rules) of the main matter. (the plastic crack) Sure, it'd be in the grand tradition of allowing and even writing army lists for other minis in KoW, and it won't be the first time there have been scale options in a game, but at this point in time it feels like a 'sure, sure, whatever' bit.
For one thing, what led them to pinpoint that scale? Besides DZC, how many 10mm sci-fi ranges are there? I'm more aware of 6mm and 15mm. Even if a 10mm ruleset is adaptable to either, would it fit neatly with both?

Why 10mm of all scales? I'd think they would want to maximize the number of compatible lines like they did with 28mm. The only reason I could see them going with 10mm is that they have their own 10mm line being planned out and don't want us using other brands. Or I suppose it could have been a typo.

Hawk Wargames and Dropzone Commander have turned up at their Open days a couple of time, maybe there's a cross promotion thing planned?

Moar 3A previews:



Looks pretty good. If they even get close to the quality of the zombie sprues these will be pretty enticing.

I like those a lot better than the resin 3a.

Hawk's ranges seem pretty well-rounded but I guess a crossover could work and it's not like Mantic's never done that sort of thing before.
I believe Spartan Games' Halo ground combat system is going to be 10mm which is what their Firestormlanetfall range is.
While I have always regarded Epic as 6mm I have also heard others call it 10mm (I think the infantry might be 10 and the vehicles 6 or the other way around, either way I've heard it but don't really put weight on it).

So, again, yeah.. 10mm eh.. I dunno I'd give it a shot but 15mm is only a shout away and I already have plenty for that and I already have a few leftover armies from Epic that I keep telling myself I'll play again one day. So I am open to proxy for those scales with the current alpha.


Just for a frame of reference, according to an article I found on TMP, 6mm = roughly 1/300 and 10mm is roughly 1/161.. N scale in model railroad is about 1/160. I am fairly sure the Micro Machines Action Fleet infantry (not the vehicles) are 10mm(roughly) and a few of the vehicles fall into that category like AT-STs and a few others. I only list these so anyone wanting to give this a shot or who doesn't understand the sizes of those smaller scales might get a better idea.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

Mine comes in liquid form, but that'll do. It's not expensive and as cptjake mentions it gets plenty of use in modelling. If it was expensive or exotic I might agree with you but this really is neither. Besides a pin vice it's fairly standard kit and these wings were easily thick enough for pinning...

Nah, not exactly standard kit. I've never even heard of it for modelling and I've been doing this for 30+ years now, including quite some time on the interwebs. Kneadatite or Milliput or Plastic Putty, sure. Steel Epoxy? Nah, far from it.

Really? I also thought that was standard kit for modellers. Most people around here call it plumbers putty, but same thing. I've been using it for years since it's cheaper than green stuff, dries harder, and hardens so much faster, wonderfull stuff for filling big gaps in models.

The new 3a plague look great, I'll definitely be adding some to my pledge in the pm, pity ive already got at least three times everything else in the battalion box otherwise I may have added one. As it stands I've already got most of the veermyn box coming from dzi.

I hope they get around to the asterians soon, I think alot of people are waiting to see the plastic drones.

I like those 3a's.....gah, don't drag me back in Mantic! My heart can't take the up and down of another KS.

 agnosto wrote:
I like those 3a's.....gah, don't drag me back in Mantic! My heart can't take the up and down of another KS.

Go on you know you want to.....

 agnosto wrote:
I like those 3a's.....gah, don't drag me back in Mantic! My heart can't take the up and down of another KS.

Keep the pledge small and it'll be fine. $125 for rules, counters, dice, vehicle and plague army is a pretty good deal.. plague have a looted interceptor in their army list so you can pick that.

Plus, the plague battlegroup seems like a pretty good deal. $75 for 60 regular infantry, 7 large infantry, one commander.is pretty good, once they add the inevitable hybrid metal upgrade unit for free, even better.

I'm probably in for $500, although a good chunk of that will have to be in the pledge manager. Hoping we get a big "all 6 battlegroups" pledge towards the end of this if Asterians and Corporation get unlocked as well.

 scarletsquig wrote:
. plague have a looted interceptor in their army list so you can pick that.

Wait, is there a place we can see army lists?

Page 57 of the Alpha rules - the Plague have a Dropship no stats yet

http://manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Warpath-KS-Alpha.pdf

Can we please keep this topic...on topic?

Mantic's WARPATH Kickstarter?

Thanks!

Ughhh. Dammit. I like those plastic 3a's. So much nicer looking than the restic crap.

Yup, those 3A's are going to drag me in too. The DZ zombies are a nice little kit but there were not enough options for my liking, mix them up with the KOW zombies and 3A kits and that will provide me with all the customisation I desire.

As more of a painter than gamer is it better to go $1 pledge with add ons of 3A's or just punt on a bigger pledge? The idea of looted Plague vehicles is pretty desireable.

Edit: With what is known of the Warpath rules thus far are base sizes an issue? I ask as I am currently loving putting infantry sized figures on 32mm bases rather than 25mm bases.

 Bolognesus wrote:

I'm just surprised that in 30+ years of, I'm guessing, assembling more than a few large metal models these stood out as unusually poor. If nothing else, having to pin large metal parts is a basic assumption as far as I'm concerned, and it's not as if these are line infantry models, or particularly hard to pin (on the contrary). Oh well.

As for the steel epoxy, get some of this stuff http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__81630__EV5_20G_5_Min_Steel_Filler_Epoxy_Glue_AU_Warehouse_.html
(I prefer HK's own brand which is even cheaper, but it's not available from AU warehouse so shipping would kill it).
I don't think it's *strictly* the same thing as the sort of kneadable steel epoxy you'd use for non modelling purposes (as CptJake mentioned) - I would rather use JB weld to fix a water pipe or something like that - but this will do fine for modelling and it saves a fair buck vs JBweld etc

Thanks for the link. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the quality of those heroes. While, yes, pinning is a normal thing, I found the joins to be particularly mediocre - and especially given that it was 2013(?) when I received those particular models when I have so many, so much older models that clearly had much more thought put into their join slots.

 Kalamadea wrote:

Really? I also thought that was standard kit for modellers. Most people around here call it plumbers putty, but same thing. I've been using it for years since it's cheaper than green stuff, dries harder, and hardens so much faster, wonderfull stuff for filling big gaps in models.

At this point I'm well sold on it, but nope, not heard of it being used before. Might be a regional thing perhaps? It certainly seems like a kind of word-of-mouth thing.

Ahem. Apparently we'll finish that tangent, as useful as it was to find out about a new modelling product, so thank you, gents.

Those plastic 3As? Are they the "same" Plague mobs as those not-quite-human guys with the huge torsos that were painted pink in the original DZ? If so, these look SO much better.

Is anyone else finding it a bit hard or even pointless to discuss this campaign in any depth? Since we know the campaign is going to look incredibly different in 2 and a half weeks. My main concern is the delivery window being Sept 2016 and wondering just how far it'll get pushed back when things get "so out of control, we just didn't expect it, etc". Since KoW2 was given a July 2015 date and looks like wrapping up in... 2016 sometime? (TBA, and no dates for wave 2)

Yeah, Az, they're 3rd gen plague mutants. Same as the main infantry from DZ.

Honestly I like both. I think a poorly constructed new s3 will look worse than the stock original s3's, but with good posing and some care, they've got potential to look better. And they don't have as much of the super torso that was bugging people. If they've got high cross-compatibility with the zombies, it will be good times

Vaguely on topic question, in some of the photos on the kickstarter there are a number of cargo containers. Where are they from, are they part of the scenery from the 2nd deadzone kickstarter?

Back on topic, I think it would take some hard plastic rebs to get me on board with this one. None of he new stuff has grabbed me at all yet.

 GrimDork wrote:
Yeah, Az, they're 3rd gen plague mutants. Same as the main infantry from DZ.

Honestly I like both. I think a poorly constructed new s3 will look worse than the stock original s3's, but with good posing and some care, they've got potential to look better. And they don't have as much of the super torso that was bugging people. If they've got high cross-compatibility with the zombies, it will be good times

Simply not having those silly torsos already makes them look better in my opinion. And they'd be silly not to have them cross-comptable with zombies, so surely they'd think of that? Actually, it shouldn' t be a given. Just like ball-joints for necks and heads on most plastic models should be a given...

 Azazelx wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

I'm just surprised that in 30+ years of, I'm guessing, assembling more than a few large metal models these stood out as unusually poor. If nothing else, having to pin large metal parts is a basic assumption as far as I'm concerned, and it's not as if these are line infantry models, or particularly hard to pin (on the contrary). Oh well.

As for the steel epoxy, get some of this stuff http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__81630__EV5_20G_5_Min_Steel_Filler_Epoxy_Glue_AU_Warehouse_.html
(I prefer HK's own brand which is even cheaper, but it's not available from AU warehouse so shipping would kill it).
I don't think it's *strictly* the same thing as the sort of kneadable steel epoxy you'd use for non modelling purposes (as CptJake mentioned) - I would rather use JB weld to fix a water pipe or something like that - but this will do fine for modelling and it saves a fair buck vs JBweld etc

Thanks for the link. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the quality of those heroes. While, yes, pinning is a normal thing, I found the joins to be particularly mediocre - and especially given that it was 2013(?) when I received those particular models when I have so many, so much older models that clearly had much more thought put into their join slots.

 Kalamadea wrote:

Really? I also thought that was standard kit for modellers. Most people around here call it plumbers putty, but same thing. I've been using it for years since it's cheaper than green stuff, dries harder, and hardens so much faster, wonderfull stuff for filling big gaps in models.

At this point I'm well sold on it, but nope, not heard of it being used before. Might be a regional thing perhaps? It certainly seems like a kind of word-of-mouth thing.

Ahem. Apparently we'll finish that tangent, as useful as it was to find out about a new modelling product, so thank you, gents.

Those plastic 3As? Are they the "same" Plague mobs as those not-quite-human guys with the huge torsos that were painted pink in the original DZ? If so, these look SO much better.

Is anyone else finding it a bit hard or even pointless to discuss this campaign in any depth? Since we know the campaign is going to look incredibly different in 2 and a half weeks. My main concern is the delivery window being Sept 2016 and wondering just how far it'll get pushed back when things get "so out of control, we just didn't expect it, etc". Since KoW2 was given a July 2015 date and looks like wrapping up in... 2016 sometime? (TBA, and no dates for wave 2)

YW. And yeah, I'm sure I've gone off on a thing or two that might have seemed minor to others from time to time as well

I think the Jul'15 date for KoW2 was supposed to be wave 1 with wave 2 shipping oct/nov or something like that? Could be mistaken.

The problem with discussing the campaign is we've pretty much discussed all of it already. Aside from the alpha rules (which we've all taken one or two well-deserved bazooka shots at before the campaign started) and the couple of new vehicles (most of which we saw sketches for during DZ:I, or even renders months ago) there's... what? three metal characters, a unit upgrade for the spesh dorfs, and one new sprue we all saw coming a mile away.

I don't think we really have a good view of the new, improved ruleset so far, and there's only so much discussion to be had on models we've all discussed to death during the DZ:I KS.

I really want to like this (for platoon level 28mm sci-fi it'll be either this or afterlife that produces a ruleset I might actually like to play, and I don't see Anvil getting the sort of market share that will actually get me opponents in the next couple of years, so yeah...), but they haven't really given us much to work with so far.

It's kind of telling how quickly we've gone into mid-campaign slow motion on this one. Usually that would have taken a week or so but this kind of leveled off after the first 24 hours, with pledges now just trickling in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamereth wrote:
Vaguely on topic question, in some of the photos on the kickstarter there are a number of cargo containers. Where are they from, are they part of the scenery from the 2nd deadzone kickstarter?

Back on topic, I think it would take some hard plastic rebs to get me on board with this one. None of he new stuff has grabbed me at all yet.

I think these are the ones you're looking for (although I think there's a few from the original accessory sprue as well): http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/deadzone/accessories/product/deadzone-resin-equipment-crates.html

Thanks Bolognesus but it's not the small crates I'm after but the large shipping container's. They can be seen most in the first veer'myn picture on the kickstarter page.

The plastic 3rd Gens look much, much better than the DZ torso beasts, but they still don't grab me. They remind me a lot of the old chaos mutation sprue and its generation of GW plastics, which are alright but not exactly cutting edge. I might pick up some to try out, but I'm not expecting to be blown away by them. If they come with a lot of weapons or some hounds, they will go up in my estimation.

I never thought I would say this, but going by plastics quality and diversity alone, it seems like the Veermyn are the best "bad guy faction" so far. I really hope Mantic makes some aliens that are actually alien soon, instead of fantasy exports or space zombies.


PS: Where is Chris Valera? I would expect him to be all up in this thing.

 Tamereth wrote:
Thanks Bolognesus but it's not the small crates I'm after but the large shipping container's. They can be seen most in the first veer'myn picture on the kickstarter page.

Ah, my bad. Those look like the rustforge shipping containers to me. In any case I'm pretty sure mantic doesn't have anything like that either in current or upcoming sets.

If they get to new Marauders (orks) as an army I'll get (semi) interested in the KS.

Only if it shoots the moon. They aren't even on the radar really.

 GrimDork wrote:
They aren't even on the radar really.

It hurts me when you say things like that.

Can I say the campaign has already stalled or will I be told off?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Can I say the campaign has already stalled or will I be told off?

You can, but if they shove in a Blaine as a result, I will murder you.

I have it on good authority that one of the new army lists is just all versions of Blaine.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I have it on good authority that one of the new army lists is just all versions of Blaine.

A Blaine army is my spirit animal

^That's ridiculous.

They're actually going to tool a giant mecha-Blaine in hard plastic as a $100k stretch.

100k wouldn't buy plastic hard enough for Blaine.
Did they really end up doing a Brian blessed mini?

My guess is that this campaign will end somewhere around $500K-$650K. Any bets against?

It is telling that Deadzone which had an innovative concept is their largest kickstarter yet. Another miniature game, however good, is not that new and exciting.

$650k and 6 armies fully funded sounds about right.

At the moment, they only need (at minimum) Veermyn, Corporation and Asterian vehicles, and Asterian infantry to get there.

So, 4 fairly large stretch goals, with some hybrid metal and character stretches in-between. Should be doable, although hard plastic Corp infantry as well would be ideal.

Yeah, it's already stalled. Good news is that means we'll start to see kitchen sinks thrown in if it keeps up for another few days

Lowered my pledge to concentrate on just 2 armies for now. After getting slapped with a duty tax on my DBX/KoW shipment and due to shipping for Warpath being charged after the project rather than being included, I figure I better keep the total low(ish).

 jorny wrote:


It is telling that Deadzone which had an innovative concept is their largest kickstarter yet. Another miniature game, however good, is not that new and exciting.

I think it's largely due to the fact that Warpath is just a 40K alternative while 40K still exists, unlike KoW which replaced the old WFB that GW killed. If you plan on paying Warpath with your existing 40K collection, then all you need are the rules. So, this KS is mainly for those who just want the rules or those who actually want one of the Warpath-specific armies (I, for example, do want a Forge Fathers army).

Re: my base size question on the previous page, anyone?

25mm for the basic infantry. I would not advise putting models on 32mm for Deadzone and it doesn't seem advisable for warpath either, really.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 jorny wrote:


It is telling that Deadzone which had an innovative concept is their largest kickstarter yet. Another miniature game, however good, is not that new and exciting.

I think it's largely due to the fact that Warpath is just a 40K alternative while 40K still exists, unlike KoW which replaced the old WFB that GW killed. If you plan on paying Warpath with your existing 40K collection, then all you need are the rules. So, this KS is mainly for those who just want the rules or those who actually want one of the Warpath-specific armies (I, for example, do want a Forge Fathers army).

I actually think the fact that they're avoiding being not-40k, while a good move, is part of the stall. The only one of the initial armies that has a clear analogue to 40k is the enforcers. Space dwarves, space skaven, and Lost and the Damned are all non-existent in the 40k universe. KoW went out of its way to allow a direct port of WFB armies into KoW, while warpath is being much more coy.

The bigger problem I have is that they left some great stuff on the cutting room floor. You have armies like Corporation and Orx/Marauders, which while a clear 40k analogue, are cool and popular. In Rebs you have an army made up of multiple alien races, plus browncoats. Why are they being given the cold shoulder?

I get the idea that they'll eventually warpathify all of the deadzone factions and maybe the orks and corp too. But they want to go the real plastic route and since it's expensive to make the molds and all they have to just focus on a little at a time. I'm sure they have future kickstarters planned for the other stuff

Core plastic Corporation infantry, plus the 3As and a few vehicles, would have me in for two battleforces and the rules (aiming at Firefight-scale. Honestly, I'm only interested in sci-fi at larger than company level in 6mm or 10mm, these days.)

I don't know why, but for a year now, I've been wanting to paint up some Corporation troopers in Hyperion colors. But I hate the thought of restic troops more than I love the thought of having a small Hyperion force for gaming.

I think it's also that a lot of the initial backing is coming from returning Mantic backers, and this time most of the starting pledge bundles are chock full of material that's been funded and ordered before. I already have as many enforcers, Plague zombies, Steel Warriors, Jet bikes, as I want, for example. (Same goes for specialists; I'll probably never build my second Plague Teraton, so why would I want another?)

I still have Deadzone forces to finish assembling and painting, so Warpath just doesn't look realistic as something to upgrade to. I'd never get all the models done. So why buy the rulebooks for something I'll never play?

Being in this mainly to spice up my Deadzone forces, I don't need any vehicles, either, although I could be tempted to purchase one of each just as scenery, scenario objectives, or for fun.

Currently Mantic's advice to people in my position is to go for the add-ons, they're a great deal, etc. Currently I have an early bird and given how these things evolve, I plan to sit on it until the end, in case the advanced warfare deal becomes so good that even from my perspective getting it makes sense. With Mantic, you never know until the end.

I don't really have any complaints, but I would make one request, which is that Mantic consider some sort of Advanced Warfare pledge tailored to Deadzone / previous backers like myself. Some of the add-on deals may be good (20 for $20 especially), but some are not: I don't think paying $30 for one of each vehicle type is very tempting, or paying $40 to buy more jetbikes in a quantity I'll never need or use (10 jetbikes is ridiculous for a Deadzone player). Similarly, while I would pick up 20 more hard plastic enforcers, plague zombies, and maybe a few more Peacekeepers, it's not worth it for me to buy a $75 army starter when they are the only things in those bundles that I want more of. Those are all cases where I would just buy less from the kickstarter rather than buy in larger quantity. The army bundles are better value, but if all I need are a few more hard plastic enforcers, buying a set or two at retail still makes more sense. (Unless I have lots of free time and incentive to trade or sell off a lot of excess, which many of us don't.)

This is a practical / business strategy issue, not a moral one about obligation to former backers / fans / etc. I get that this KS is for Warpath, not Deadzone, and that Mantic want to encourage people to scale up; accordingly, they should stick with that strategy as long as it seems to be working. If the KS stalls badly, that's when they should start considering what I'm saying here. This is the first Warpath / Deadzone universe KS campaign to feature so much previously funded / released material. There will be a lot of returning Deadzone players who would be happy to use the KS to fill in spots in their collections, even if they don't want to upgrade to full armies (or conversely, they already have enough for such armies minus one or two things, and would rather buy just those things to finish them). If the campaign stalls, Mantic might want to loosen up their approach and start catering more to those people by doing 20 for $20 deals for older HP stuff like enforcers, plague zombies, steel warriors, etc. That's money coming in in smaller chunks, but if those were people who were never going to go for the $75 hard sell upgrades anyway, that's much better than nothing.

All constructive ideas,

but the disadvantage is it kicks all their retail stockists many of whom are not best pleased with Mantics continual KS fest to begin with,

It's a lot easier for a store to accept a mantic rep telling them not to worry, the KS will really only appeal to new players (look we're only offering full armies at deal prices), and that once they are in the stores can sell them a bunch of other stuff, the new kit are fine too as without KS they wouldn't exist to make the game more appealing and help the stores sell it to their customers

but once Mantic start offering single existing items at big discounts stores will wonder if they have any profit left in stocking the line, or if all they'll get is people clogging up their tables playing with KS models and only buying the occasional brush/paint/soda which doesn't actually pay their rent & wages bill

 Psychopomp wrote:
Core plastic Corporation infantry, plus the 3As and a few vehicles, would have me in for two battleforces and the rules (aiming at Firefight-scale. Honestly, I'm only interested in sci-fi at larger than company level in 6mm or 10mm, these days.)

I don't know why, but for a year now, I've been wanting to paint up some Corporation troopers in Hyperion colors. But I hate the thought of restic troops more than I love the thought of having a small Hyperion force for gaming.

Borderlands Hyperion, or Marvel Hyperion (think crazy/nuts Superman, if anyone doesn't know him)? I assume the former, as it makes more sense.

I'm moderately interested in several of the factions here, but none of them are really grabbing me.

Enforcers - nice enough generic power armoured dudes, I could get them I guess.
Forgefathers - the kid in me who tried to build a Squat army at the tail end of 2nd edition really wants to make an army of these complete with drilling machines and land trains. But the adult in me finds Space Dwarves with beards a touch too silly.
Plague - Not interested in their backstory (I would rather my "plague" mutants look more disgusting and less like they've been pumping iron) but they could make passable mutants for a post apocalyptic setting.

Vermyn are a terrible concept as far as I'm concerned and the minis look like poop. Urgh. I hate that they're a core race. Space Skaven, did we really need such an unoriginal idea for one of the main factions? The idea of a "vermin" race that's sneaky and adaptable and scavenges tech is not too bad, but to have them be biped mutant rats is...urgh.

But none of it really excites me enough to want to pledge and then wait a year to get it. If I see the boxes on sale in my FLGS, I might pick up a couple.

If they started making hard plastic Rebs, I might take notice. I do quite like that faction.

 Da Boss wrote:
If they started making hard plastic Rebs, I might take notice. I do quite like that faction.

Why would anybody in interested in hardscrabble forces made up of fringe humans and a collection of alien races, all using different abilities to form distinct units?

Especially if they had a "space cowboy" vibe. I mean... who could possible want that?

Joyboozer wrote:
100k wouldn't buy plastic hard enough for Blaine.
Did they really end up doing a Brian blessed mini?

You may disagree, but I believe Brian Blessed was the inspiration for a certain over the top Forgefather character with a huge beard, winged helm, jump pack "wings" and a very screams attitude.

 Polonius wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
If they started making hard plastic Rebs, I might take notice. I do quite like that faction.

Why would anybody in interested in hardscrabble forces made up of fringe humans and a collection of alien races, all using different abilities to form distinct units?

Especially if they had a "space cowboy" vibe. I mean... who could possible want that?

::raises hand::

What put me off of Deadzone was how terrible a faction they turned out to be when they were the complete reason I bought Deadzone.

Deadzone's gone through at least one revision since I last looked at it so maybe they don't suck anymore; the last time I played, 2 plague mortars could control the entire board with massive frag by pinning everything, most boring game I ever played.

 agnosto wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
If they started making hard plastic Rebs, I might take notice. I do quite like that faction.

Why would anybody in interested in hardscrabble forces made up of fringe humans and a collection of alien races, all using different abilities to form distinct units?

Especially if they had a "space cowboy" vibe. I mean... who could possible want that?

::raises hand::

What put me off of Deadzone was how terrible a faction they turned out to be when they were the complete reason I bought Deadzone.

Deadzone's gone through at least one revision since I last looked at it so maybe they don't suck anymore; the last time I played, 2 plague mortars could control the entire board with massive frag by pinning everything, most boring game I ever played.

I'm with you! I love the rebs. I think they're a cool idea, and while maybe more Fire-fight appropriate than Warpath, I love the idea of a half dozen races teaming up to kick ass!

The new 3A do look very good, especially compared to the unbelievably awful restic ones. They could also make some very convincing Necromunda Scavvies!

I like the change to the plague battlegroup, way more tempting now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
3 FF Tanks for $75

I quite like those striders - but don't have need of them at the moment. For the most part, Mantic's undead continue to be their best lines, imo.

Started reading the short story they posted. It was pretty good until the word "Dwarves" turned up. And you are told that they have beards and are fantasy dwarves in space. I can't get over that they didn't make the forge fathers more like the Volus in Mass effect. I like the forge father minis, as long as they have masks and you aren't reminded of what they really are.

The battlegroup is still not going to be useful to particularly many players who already have a bunch of zombies; most of us have at least one or two DZ plague starters as well, and probably a plague teraton. Still good value if you don't have any yet but I don't see too many folks deciding it's no longer better to just get a bunch of 20 for $20 3A's.

Adding the 20 for $20 zombies was a nice touch, though.

 jorny wrote:
Started reading the short story they posted. It was pretty good until the word "Dwarves" turned up. And you are told that they have beards and are fantasy dwarves in space. I can't get over that they didn't make the forge fathers more like the Volus in Mass effect. I like the forge father minis, as long as they have masks and you aren't reminded of what they really are.

Precisely why i hate the ff hero fig - he represents most of what i dislike about gw's whfb dwarves.

I will be converting that fig pretty heavily. The rest of the ff guys look fabulous, and i am one of the few who seems to love their vehicles. One fig wont ruin it for me though.

 Da Boss wrote:

Vermyn are a terrible concep as far as I'm concerned

What?

Oh. Carry on.

and the minis look like poop. Urgh. I hate that they're a core race. Space Skaven, did we really need such an unoriginal idea for one of the main factions? The idea of a "vermin" race that's sneaky and adaptable and scavenges tech is not too bad, but to have them be biped mutant rats is...urgh.

Can't disagree. I'm not over the moon about their design and style either. They have the feel of a set of baddies from some 80's - 90's action cartoon. You can see it, can't you? Captain Planet battles Verminous Skumm and his squeaking gang of incompetent Veer-myn. Thinly-disguised homophones slathered with Ks and Ys and extra punctuation everywhere.

Agreed on the rest of the factions too. I could go for some enforcers sometime, but I'm just not champing at the bit for them.

I mean.. seriously. How can anyone complain about any of these 75% full hardplastic deals? They are amazing value and 95% of the minis are top notch.

RoninXiC wrote:
I mean.. seriously. How can anyone complain about any of these 75% full hardplastic deals? They are amazing value and 95% of the minis are top notch.

They're great, but I already own all the old stuff I would ever want. You can't rope me in with more of the same no matter how good a deal it is.

Sure.. but that's like not an argument against the deal.
Best food in the world is worth nothing when I'm already stuffed. Doesnt change anything about the quality of the food.

I'm not sure who exactly is saying that the army deals are just plain bad? I'm with blackfang on this one. The deals are great for newbies or for people who need them to flesh out their DZ squad into a full army. But for people who just want to pick up new things for use in Deadzone, or who already have enough figures from past Deadzone KS campaigns to field a Warpath army, there's little appeal to them. It's not a moral outrage thing, just a practical difference in what various backers are looking for.

I dunno, even with previous Deadzone campaigns, you might still be low on models for use in Warpath. Unless you went completely crazy and got 80+ models for every faction... never got the point in that tbh. Its not a good deal if Im getting 80 for 80 if 20 for 30 is completely sufficient. <.<

I have more of each faction than what comes in the $75 deals. For some reason.

Except the redone plague deal, which might end up being the one I pick in the end if they don't spam any more zombies in it. Swapping some for more 3rd gens was a great move.

 Tyr13 wrote:
I dunno, even with previous Deadzone campaigns, you might still be low on models for use in Warpath. Unless you went completely crazy and got 80+ models for every faction... never got the point in that tbh. Its not a good deal if Im getting 80 for 80 if 20 for 30 is completely sufficient. <.<

To be fair I pretty much did that, I saw it as stocking up for warpath. Theres not much on offer atm that I don't already own buckets of, however I'm still in for an adv. Warefare pledge to get some more Veermyn, I love the space rats

In for a dollar for now, so I can track the updates.

Most likely I'll be getting a 20-for-20 deal on the new Plague Gen3s, and if they do a 2-for-30 deal on the APC/Tank and Dropship I'll probably get one of those deals for each of those.

At the moment, my rules interest is in the mass battle opportunities, and I am not a fan of the current mass-battle ruleset they've got previewed. If they manage to clean it up and remove all the flack slowing it down, I may end up pledging for the rules after all, but for right now I'm in for add-ons and add-ons only.

 Tyr13 wrote:
I dunno, even with previous Deadzone campaigns, you might still be low on models for use in Warpath. Unless you went completely crazy and got 80+ models for every faction... never got the point in that tbh. Its not a good deal if Im getting 80 for 80 if 20 for 30 is completely sufficient. <.<

A lot of people took advantage of the deals during the DeadZone KS to get a start on Warpath armies. They won't necessarily ned the big bundles as they already have the core forces.

Yeah, unless Enforcers or FF are surprise horde armies, I'm fairly certain I have enough for the size games I enjoy. I estimated that my army size would need to be roughly that of a 1750 Space Marine army . That's what I presently own. Unfortunately, not having finalized rules or lists makes it kinda hard to dial it in from there but I certainly don't need full lists of stuff that is already in existence. Had they released some specialists or something we've not really seen yet, then yeah, I'd probably go for that.

I didn't get a chance to get in on the DZ KS, so for folks like me new to Mantic, the current deals seem pretty nice.

But the KS is still pretty fresh - Chances are there will be more cool stuff coming as the weeks roll by, right?

 Alex C wrote:
Lowered my pledge to concentrate on just 2 armies for now. After getting slapped with a duty tax on my DBX/KoW shipment and due to shipping for Warpath being charged after the project rather than being included, I figure I better keep the total low(ish).

Mantic need to get onto local distribution hubs for their kickstarters instead of just shipping everything from HQ in Nottingham. This will probably be my last one from Mantic due to upcoming changes to AU Import Duty that go into place July 2017. Even this one will be sketchy to see if they fully deliver by then. If CMoN can do it, and even a number of smaller companies with boardgames (Journey) that have lots of add-ons can also do it, Mantic should be able to organise something. Of course, using "Mantic" and "organise" in the same sentence might be more than a little hopeful...

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

I think it's largely due to the fact that Warpath is just a 40K alternative while 40K still exists, unlike KoW which replaced the old WFB that GW killed. If you plan on paying Warpath with your existing 40K collection, then all you need are the rules. So, this KS is mainly for those who just want the rules or those who actually want one of the Warpath-specific armies (I, for example, do want a Forge Fathers army).

That was luck and timing. GW hadn't yet taken WHFB out back to put a bullet in its head when the KoW KS was running. The KoW KS (delayed) distribution just happened to be happening when GW pulled AoS out. The KoW campaign was last year.

 Polonius wrote:

I actually think the fact that they're avoiding being not-40k, while a good move, is part of the stall. The only one of the initial armies that has a clear analogue to 40k is the enforcers. Space dwarves, space skaven, and Lost and the Damned are all non-existent in the 40k universe. KoW went out of its way to allow a direct port of WFB armies into KoW, while warpath is being much more coy.

The bigger problem I have is that they left some great stuff on the cutting room floor. You have armies like Corporation and Orx/Marauders, which while a clear 40k analogue, are cool and popular. In Rebs you have an army made up of multiple alien races, plus browncoats. Why are they being given the cold shoulder?

It's a good move in some ways and a bad move in others. As with "Mantica" I don't give two iotas about their not-40k background, so I'm looking for a better ruleset for my 40k models that I can easily slot my models into - and if the Mantic models are good enough, I'll use them too - as I have with Ogres, Undead and others bits and pieces. Basically the same mindset that I have with KoW/WHFB and those models.

I have to say, the changes to the Plague Battlegroup are good to see - and it's good to see Mantic regocnising and responding to their customer base in that way - and good to see that they've stated that the Stage 3s will be properly compatible with the Plague Zombies as well. So I guess you could also mix them in somewhat with the Fantasy Zombies and Ghouls for really ragged additional variations.

 jorny wrote:
Started reading the short story they posted. It was pretty good until the word "Dwarves" turned up. And you are told that they have beards and are fantasy dwarves in space. I can't get over that they didn't make the forge fathers more like the Volus in Mass effect. I like the forge father minis, as long as they have masks and you aren't reminded of what they really are.

They're in a "can't please everyone" situation with the Forge Fathers. I'm not keen on Bearded tanks, but the entirety of my interest in them stems from them being Not-Squats. I'd prefer them less over the top then that silly looking character they previewed with the dogs attached to his face (credit to insaniak for that one).

I really liked the aesthetic that they put together in the Rogue Trader era. They were dwarves in that they were practical, earthy and tough, but they looked like sci-fi soldiers with bikers and engineers rather than Troll Slayers and Longbeards and Hammerers.

New update, a nice simple $5k stretch goal to add heavy weapons and plague dogs to the Stage 3 sprue.

Looks like they're going straight onwards to the 5th faction after this!

I like the art for the corporation.

A lot.

The 3rd gen sprue looks pretty sweet and I wanted more plague hounds for DZ anyway.

Corp doesn't interest me at all, there were plenty of high-tech human grunts kickstarted in the last few years.

While I want Asterians I had to vote GCPS is the vehicles will cover 3 factions

No idea what I want from this Kickstarter. I've enough troops for decent sized Enforcer and Forgefather armies. 20 3rd gens would give me a small Plague army with all the Deadzone troops I have. More tanks I guess!

I really thought a WARPATH KS would really be crushing it - knocking down stretch goals (real and fake) at a breakneck pace!

I really thought WARPATH would be a serious contender/threat to 40K - and of course it may still be!

But so far for me, this KS has been a disappointment.

Warpath has been delayed for a little too long unfortunately. The iron isn't hot anymore, and Antares and Maelstrom's Edge got there first in terms of 40k alternatives.

For the past 4 years, Mantic has been a board game/ skirmish game company, it is only very recently that the refocus on mass battles has happened, Warpath was basically ignored through that entire time period despite being the main thing that everyone wanted from Mantic at the time. And then board games brought in way more money anyway.

I honestly think if the Kickstarter had happened 2-3 years ago it could have hit $2 million. Would have been very exciting, but these days KS fatigue and other issues mean it'll still do very well, just not spectacularly. The backer count and $ total is doing way better than the KoW 2 KS.

They do finally have mass battle rules nailed, though, the current alpha rules are superior to either of the previous two versions of the game, IMO.

I'd expect interest to start picking up more with the retail release, as has happened with KoW, most of the sales there are not going to be KS.

With the hushed rumours of a 40k reboot similar to AoS, Mantic might have the timing just right.

While I think a couple of years ago might have been a better time to run the campaign (I know there was something about it in Autumn '13, after the DZ campaign when there was still a lot of buzz- definitely would have done it then), I'm not sure that even if Mantic had been ready for it, the quality of their minis would have been. I'm a lot more confident to pledge for their hard plastic stuff now than I would have been after the first KoW campaign, for instance. And yeah, I also think a lot of people are just kickstartered out. I'm not really sure that they could do a spectacular, exceed all expectations campaign now even if they pulled out all the stops.

I think Mantic actually said that the way forward for them is smaller, more manageable KSs which means that we're not going to see a Warpath, all factions complete KS here. That said, I think that what this KS is pulling in so far is about in alignment with what they're offering; 4 factions, 1 a human faction that people can buy similar offerings from a dozen companies without waiting a year, the plague, and the other two factions having limited general appeal. For a number of reasons they're not bringing the Orx but that's a missed opportunity because they have character and a direct 40k analog to draw sales from. Nor are they bringing in one of their completely original races which I admit would be more of a gamble but would potentially generate more interest.

The fact is that most people who are interested in the humans or forefathers or even the plague or dwarves probably already own fairly significant forces from the bloated DZ kickstarters (you can play with 10 models so we'll give you 50) so they're just drawing in some new blood for those. At least one new faction would have been smart and I think we'll see a pick-up when they do something with Asterians as I'm sure they will soon.

Edit:
It also doesn't help that they're signaling that they still have no idea which direction they want to take the rules even making fairly major changes after the launch of the KS which can turn some people off of backing. It bugged me that I got the DZ book and then major changes happened a relatively short time later so I basically paid for beta rules.

Edit 2:
Oops. Forgot there are 4 factions.

If says you get a plague dog per sprue, but that you only get 4 plague dogs in the battle group. But I thought it was now 40 3rd gens in the group which sounds like 8 sprues and should have 8 dogs? Hmm.

I didn't want a GCPS redesign but holy crap. I really like that concept art. Only thing I can say that isn't positive is to ask if he looks like that then where did the plague and zombies get their helmets?

GCPS should look like that though, they're supposed to be crack/elite soldiers and not just fodder ike the IG/AM often seem to be.

Grim, I thought the same thing on the dogs, but it looks like it was corrected in the update to 8.

GCPS are just Corp security forces. Never thought there was anything elite about them.

I think Asterians makes more sense at this stage. The Droid/Tank concept art has been going around for a while now, humans already have a faction with the Enforcers and the Corp actually already have plastics (infantry, heavy weapons, marines, strider). Also Mantic said they want to do a Corp vs. Z'zor Deadzone set, so they could do the GCPS at that point. In the meantime, there's tons of sci fi human minis with a similar aesthetic that can stand in until then.

Asterians are currently lacking any kind of plastics, they really need priority imho.

RobertsMinis wrote:No idea what I want from this Kickstarter.

Radical thought: if there's nothing you want, don't throw money at it.

scarletsquig wrote:Warpath has been delayed for a little too long unfortunately. The iron isn't hot anymore, and Antares and Maelstrom's Edge got there first in terms of 40k alternatives.

Much as I've been moaning about this KS, I'd back Warpath before those. (Sorry Dakka) Talk about hot irons? I still have nightmares about the first GoA kickstarter and the back-of-a-school-jotter doodles they had as collateral, before it collapsed and the game went cold a good long while.

agnosto wrote:
It also doesn't help that they're signaling that they still have no idea which direction they want to take the rules even making fairly major changes after the launch of the KS which can turn some people off of backing.

Yup. That's in no way a good thing. (It's almost as if... they consider themselves a model company rather than a game company, or something...) But even so.

 GrimDork wrote:

I didn't want a GCPS redesign but holy crap. I really like that concept art. Only thing I can say that isn't positive is to ask if he looks like that then where did the plague and zombies get their helmets?

GCPS should look like that though, they're supposed to be crack/elite soldiers and not just fodder ike the IG/AM often seem to be.

Unless those guys in the concept art are a specific unit that are more elite, and the 'line troops' of the faction are moreakin to what we've already seen. In 40k terms, perhaps what we're seeing is Stormtroopers to the Corp guys' IG? Which personally I'm hoping for, as while that design is nice, it's nothing particularly new or different (I could find very similar models from Forge World, Anvil, Spartan when their 28mm Halo comes out) while I think the existing Corp guys are a little different.

I'd rather see HP Asterians, though, than another human faction.

I dunno I thought the GCPS marines were always supposed to be above average soldiers ala wp2.0 fluff. Would also be OK if they wanted to make a new kit a separate unit and still offer the restic marines, they really weren't bad as far as restic goes.

 Taaloc wrote:
While I think a couple of years ago might have been a better time to run the campaign (I know there was something about it in Autumn '13, after the DZ campaign when there was still a lot of buzz- definitely would have done it then), I'm not sure that even if Mantic had been ready for it, the quality of their minis would have been.

Agreed. The Plague Zombies were a remarkable early success, but I actually feel better that Mantic are tackling Plague 3rd Gens, Steel Warriors, and potentially Asterian battle droids now rather than back when the anvil was hotter but hard plastic experience was greener.

Also, I'm not sure about the relevance of Gates of Antares and Maelstrom's Edge getting there first, as neither went over gangbusters. I pledged for Maelstrom's Edge and remain excited for it, but it didn't capture a huge market - if anything, it seemed like it had also missed some hotter period of KS funding. Why that hot funding period is past, I'm not exactly sure, as there really hasn't been any hard plastic sci-fi alternative to 40K that has blown the doors off and captured the #2 spot yet. I'm starting to wonder if Deadzone did so well in large part because it at least pretended to be something of a boardgame hybrid, and that boardgames just beat the pants off of mass battle miniatures games on Kickstarter campaigns.

If so, time for Mantic to start thinking seriously about dusting off and re-launching Project Pandora, methinks.

Oh, and the Aztec god's name is spelled Tlaloc, if that's what your handle is referencing.

I have 200+ enforcers. I need exactly 0 more. But I do need drop ships for them. Lots of drop ships. And any special characters that hit. And those corporation designs they popped up are shmexy. I wants.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have 200+ enforcers. I need exactly 0 more. But I do need drop ships for them. Lots of drop ships. And any special characters that hit. And those corporation designs they popped up are shmexy. I wants.

When you get them all assembled and painted, you must post a picture. I have to see what that many enforcers looks like. And hats off to your ambition; that number of enforcers is far, far beyond me.

I think the concept art is supposed to be GCPS Rangers, which are the elite soldiers as far as that army is concerned now.

Used to be Marines -> Veteran Marines -> Rangers -> Enforcers before they split Enforcers into their own army, so they could be Rangers, they could be another elite option expending GCPS back out to four infantry options (or 5 if you count heavy weapon teams)

 Vermonter wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have 200+ enforcers. I need exactly 0 more. But I do need drop ships for them. Lots of drop ships. And any special characters that hit. And those corporation designs they popped up are shmexy. I wants.

When you get them all assembled and painted, you must post a picture. I have to see what that many enforcers looks like. And hats off to your ambition; that number of enforcers is far, far beyond me.

They're all assembled so far. Except the bits I kept to pop on jetbikes.

At least if Warhammer rules ever got better, I'd have a better looking SM army now!!

The only way I'd go Corporation, is if there were some really cool vehicles involved or something we've not seen before.
If they did something like an MRAP or some hover tank, or ATVs, or a dropship, or I dunno, just about anything, I'd be all about it. I just can't see choosing sci-fi humans though.. unless.. it involved Rebels.

As has been said, there's too many alternatives for that. Asterians could be cool. Are the space elves under that suit? Somehow I thought they were basically a curvy version of Star Wars' Battle Droids.. either way would be cool but I'm not sure how I never figured that out. Though, I did think we had already funded hard plastic Asterians but it didn't pan out for whatever reason.. So much deja vu with this KS.

 MLaw wrote:
The only way I'd go Corporation, is if there were some really cool vehicles involved or something we've not seen before.
If they did something like an MRAP or some hover tank, or ATVs, or a dropship, or I dunno, just about anything, I'd be all about it. I just can't see choosing sci-fi humans though.. unless.. it involved Rebels.

It's a pretty long bow to draw at this stage, but I keep a copy of the "Warpath II" pdf around for reference, and on that the corporation had a towed field artillery piece, an APC, a self propelled artillery/MLRS, a main battle tank, and a light flame thrower tank.

The nicest way to do it would be to have the two tanks share a tracked hull, and have the APC and SPG share an MRAP or wheeled LAV hull. That's if all of them survive the version change of course.

Asterians remotely pilot droids, they're not under the armor physically, though destruction of a droid risks injury to the pilot via neural feedback.

Mantic have never funded HIPS Asterians of any kind.

 Alex C wrote:
Asterians remotely pilot droids, they're not under the armor physically, though destruction of a droid risks injury to the pilot via neural feedback.

Mantic have never funded HIPS Asterians of any kind.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/deadzone-the-sci-fi-miniatures-board-game/posts/543729

Yup, but those got "oopsied" out, right back into restic before the (first, IIRC) survey.

Shame, too: although the current asterians work, well, well enough I guess, in restic they are perhaps the faction that could do with HIPSification the most. straight, hard lines, easy to avoid side detail, but alas that was not to be.

I'm still scratching my head who in the *world* figured that it'd be a better idea to do veermyn, of all things, in HIPS way before Asterians...

Anyone see 10 enforcer bikes for $40?! Wow.

Also, when I get Lt. Roca, he will be painted up like Frank Castle: The Punisher. Because reasons. Based on what's here...
I didn't get as many jetbikes as I wanted in Deadzone. Getting another 10.
Using my $75 box as the drop ships
Buying a second $75 box of drop ships
Roca.

That's it so far.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Yup, but those got "oopsied" out, right back into restic before the (first, IIRC) survey.

Shame, too: although the current asterians work, well, well enough I guess, in restic they are perhaps the faction that could do with HIPSification the most. straight, hard lines, easy to avoid side detail, but alas that was not to be.

Exactly!

That was the Beginning of the End for a lot of Mantic stuff for me.

I'll give them another shot in HIPs though!

(Maybe!)

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Anyone see 10 enforcer bikes for $40?! Wow.

Most people following the project, I'd wager.

This thread is really lacking in pics!

I'm kind of surprised it really isn't being kept up to date 'real time'!

 Taaloc wrote:
I'm starting to wonder if Deadzone did so well in large part because it at least pretended to be something of a boardgame hybrid, and that boardgames just beat the pants off of mass battle miniatures games on Kickstarter campaigns.

If so, time for Mantic to start thinking seriously about dusting off and re-launching Project Pandora, methinks.

Think the terrain in DZ drove a ton of pledges, as it is great for any sci-fi game, as did the hard plastic enforcers. Take those 2 out of the picture and I think DZ would have been about where Warpath is now.

Also think Mantic probably lost a lot of goodwill due to the 'questionable' quality of the DZ minis, and people realizing that you can pick up Mantic stuff very easily at huge discounts to RRP, making the KS less of a deal to tie up funds for months in advance.

I kind of love the tunneler. It doesn't look very menacing, but there isn't anywhere to put guns on a drill. Is it a melee vehicle?

Should add a compartment that pops open to reveal the dread chem laser!

Making the Asterian drones first makes sense. But on humans, it's not sci-fi humans that are overdone by everyone and their dog, it's sci-fi human men.

 Alpharius wrote:
This thread is really lacking in pics!

I'm kind of surprised it really isn't being kept up to date 'real time'!

It's sad since it is the second one to be created too... It is pretty tough to stay up on them though. I did the last KS, iirc, and it was a pain.

So close to dropping my pledge.....

Best to wait until the end...

 Alpharius wrote:
This thread is really lacking in pics!

I'm kind of surprised it really isn't being kept up to date 'real time'!

The thing is, how many pictures do you want me to shove up that OP? At some point it's going to make rather a bit of smoke come out of both phones and mobile data connections alike every time you try to look at that first page.

And it's not as if Mantic is putting out such a huge volume of newsworthy pictures compared to their usual tempo.

Glad to see the reworked Corp may be making an appearance in HIPS plastic; If they are released with a 20-for-20 deal, I'll probably get a score or two of them.

However, Mantic, listen to what AlexHolker and others are saying:

If you have a Corp sprue with just dudes, you'll get me to buy 20-40 of them.

If you have one with guys and ladies, or better yet a second dedicated sprue of just ladies (And realistic, no need for cheesecake here), you'll also get probably another two to threescore of figures on top of my order from my wife as well, effectively doubling the profit from this consumer household.

Already I know the Pathfinders I have coming are probably going to be her favorite Mantic models since the Deadzone Rebs and (soon) the Succubi, but she would drop a wad of cash in a heartbeat if it meant lots of affordable female HIPS scifi soldiers.

So many kickstarter and miniature gaming biz experts on dakka! Psh, if only they'd listen they would be on their second billion by now

I want a driller transport that carries smaller drills that rats ride like rice burners, and i want the drillbikes 10 for $40!

Oooh. I like this.

They can drive around in the drill-bikes like shriners in their tiny little cars!


Like this, but Veermyn and drill-cars. Woowoo.

Those Shriners look like they have no legs.

Like some sort of 40k admech servant type robot thing whose name escapes me at the moment.

Now, no thanks to our very own Vermonter, I can't get the idea of a Project Pandora/ Space Crusade/ Dungeon Saga crawl type game out of my head, and am ready to welcome it into being with both open arms and wallet.

As someone who always wanted a copy of Space Crusade in the US, after reading about it in a review in Dragon Magazine in an old B.Dalton, I've wanted something like it ever since, but have waited for a more modern take on the game.

If anyone will do it, it would be Mantic.

Really liking this KS, only $10k to get the next vehicle in!

Pledge manager being open until February with this one is going to be rough on the wallet, I can see this ending up at a $1000 spend for me, especially if there aren't any more Mantic Kickstarters for a while after this.

Currently thinking Operation Heracles + 4 battlegroups for the other 4 armies + 4 vehicle battlegroups. Even that only comes to $725, but some of the bundles look tempting.. $4 jetbikes aren't likely to happen anytime soon, I suspect that boxes of 2 for £10 or £25 for 6 are likely to be the retail pricing on those. Probably going to be one of the better buys, like peacekeepers were in the first Deadzone KS.

 Bolognesus wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
This thread is really lacking in pics!

I'm kind of surprised it really isn't being kept up to date 'real time'!

The thing is, how many pictures do you want me to shove up that OP? At some point it's going to make rather a bit of smoke come out of both phones and mobile data connections alike every time you try to look at that first page.

And it's not as if Mantic is putting out such a huge volume of newsworthy pictures compared to their usual tempo.

I've got to be honest with you, outside of a link to the project, I don't really check the first post much.

To me, its best if new pics get posted in the thread and the title gets updated - that's it!

The battlepack for the Tunnelers has some extra junk in the trunk.

The first person to paint an Enforcer Dropship in Thunderbird 2 Green and sling one of those underneath it in Mole yellow gets a million bonus points!

 Vermonter wrote:
Oh, and the Aztec god's name is spelled Tlaloc, if that's what your handle is referencing.

It isn't, but thanks.

For what it's worth, the Aztecs didn't have an alphabet, so it wasn't spelled as anything.

For what it's worth, the topic at hand here is Mantic's WARPATH Kickstarter.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
This thread is really lacking in pics!

I'm kind of surprised it really isn't being kept up to date 'real time'!

The thing is, how many pictures do you want me to shove up that OP? At some point it's going to make rather a bit of smoke come out of both phones and mobile data connections alike every time you try to look at that first page.

And it's not as if Mantic is putting out such a huge volume of newsworthy pictures compared to their usual tempo.

I've got to be honest with you, outside of a link to the project, I don't really check the first post much.

To me, its best if new pics get posted in the thread and the title gets updated - that's it!

That's all right then, you haven't missed much. Campaign is just a bit slower than mantic's usual, that's all

 Bolognesus wrote:


That's all right then, you haven't missed much. Campaign is just a bit slower than mantic's usual, that's all

Fair enough then!

I'm 'following' it here, not there, so I was just curious.

I still haven't been able to find the new Corporation concept art though...

Here you go:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:


That's all right then, you haven't missed much. Campaign is just a bit slower than mantic's usual, that's all

Fair enough then!

I'm 'following' it here, not there, so I was just curious.

I still haven't been able to find the new Corporation concept art though...

The Corporation concept art is in KS update #16. I'm too lazy to try to post it here using my phone but its at the bottom of the update with the Asterian art.

Ninja'd

That drill tank thing is silly. I know it is all subjective but what did they do? Rip out any drive mechanisms needed to turn the drill head so they could fit troops? I guess I am one of the guys who likes designs to at least be a bit realistic.

I may end up getting a few new plastic 3rd Gens, and would have gotten the Firefight book if we were going to get an idea of what it would be like (now I'll wait and maybe pick it up retail).

I'm just not impressed with the offering so far. I admit if you like the styling and don't already have a ton from DZ kickstarters there is good value, but it is only good value if they are selling something you want.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:
Here you go:

Spoiler:

Great start.

Where does he keep his extra rifle ammo?

Paradigm wrote:Here you go:

Spoiler:

Thank you!

That is pretty nice!

CptJake wrote:

I'm just not impressed with the offering so far.

I'm not impressed either but...

CptJake wrote:

...but it is only good value if they are selling something you want.

...well yeah!

Extra rifle ammo? It *is* a laser rifle, so maybe it doesn't need a lot of reloading? I don't see an obviously readily removable magazine either. Also, unless the magazine/battery is huge, he could have one or more of them stored in that pouch prominently featured right above his sidearm.

Didn't realize it was a laser. It looks like it has ejection ports so I assumed it was a projectile weapon.

Well I could be wrong, traditionally they've always been lasers on the GCPS marines, but that doesn't mean the concept artist drew a laser gun.

 Paradigm wrote:
Here you go:

But he will look like play doh when he comes.

Lol sour grapes there, they've done plenty of solid releases lately, MAA (what I assume you're referencing) are in the past.

If the Corp Marines look that good when they arrive, I'm throwing out all my old restic Corp and getting a thousand of these.

Corp look like that, hell, I'll buy some even.

It is a rarity when I will go out of my way to purchase actual human figures.

Damn that concept art is brilliant. Quite a huge departure from Mantics earlier cartoony style, which IMO is the biggest reason why so many of their sculpts have looked like gak.

I still like the original corp marines just fine and they'll continue to serve for a long time. But those new guys have a *lot* of potential, I'll find a place for both.

I'm also rather excited about combination corp/plague vehicles. I think that's intentional as a thing.

 CptJake wrote:
Where does he keep his extra rifle ammo?

Laser or caseless ammo magazine, the magazines stored in his backpack?

Either way I'd still love me some new Corp in plastic.

Even better, they can call the update when they release it Hard Corps!

You know, for hard plastic corporation... I'll show myself out.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Even better, they can call the update when they release it Hard Corps!

You know, for hard plastic corporation... I'll show myself out.

You deserve to be BANEd for that.

 Alpharius wrote:

CptJake wrote:

I'm just not impressed with the offering so far.

I'm not impressed either but...

Penny for your thoughts, guys. I'm just curious why you're not impressed, or what it would take to impress you. Is it the designs of the vehicles / figures? The repetition of units from earlier Deadzone campaigns? Your favorite faction isn't featured? What could they do better?

There's not really enough brand new material yet to get me fully engaged, and as a skirmish / Deadzone player, the pledges and vehicle bundles aren't drawing me in. All of which I pretty much expected and can't complain about, since this is a KS for a mass warfare game rather than Deadzone. I'm just not the kind of guy who can whip up enough painted guys to make playing mass battle games practical, so right now I'm an add-on poacher.

Oh, and no more Aztec pedantry, I promise.

To summarize, I think the current issues are-
No revealed rules, and existing rules are reviled- HUBba HUBba.
As you pointed out, few new models besides vehicles.
Very interesting art teased- but a history of wild variations in quality from art to model.
Most loyal backers already have Deadzone armies- this is Apocalypse the kickstarter.

That concept art is nice...no confidence that it would be translated accurately in any given material.
It also doesn't really seem to fit the universe from vaguely following various Mantic threads. Seems more like something that they found on Deviant Art and thought looked cool.

No Blaine! Make him pick a side!

Difference in concept art can be seen on the asterian or corp question they raised. One an artist was given time to create, the other is a napkin doodle.

 Vermonter wrote:

Penny for your thoughts, guys. I'm just curious why you're not impressed, or what it would take to impress you. Is it the designs of the vehicles / figures? The repetition of units from earlier Deadzone campaigns? Your favorite faction isn't featured? What could they do better?

For me vehicle design is killing it big time. Bearded tanks? Giant drills? Sorry. Even the dropship is mediocre at best. For the price ist isn't bad, just not good enough for me to buy. No real new units/figures hurts too. I have all the figures I want from the existing stuff from DZ, and the hairless rat things are never gonna be something I buy, they're just way too silly looking, between the base design and the super soaker gunz and so on.

Rules wise, I was mostly interested in the Firefight scale of game, but no way I'm putting money into something To Be Written.

I think the Veermyn tunneler is probably my favourite think from this ks so far, I'm looking forward to painting a few up in yellow

 CptJake wrote:
For me vehicle design is killing it big time. Bearded tanks? Giant drills? Sorry. Even the dropship is mediocre at best. For the price ist isn't bad, just not good enough for me to buy. No real new units/figures hurts too. I have all the figures I want from the existing stuff from DZ, and the hairless rat things are never gonna be something I buy, they're just way too silly looking, between the base design and the super soaker gunz and so on.

Rules wise, I was mostly interested in the Firefight scale of game, but no way I'm putting money into something To Be Written.

I agree on the vehicle design except for the tunneler, which I'm excited for. Not a big fan of the Enforcer dropship, and the Forge Father tanks with the face are pushing that a bit too far for me, at least for now. (Iron Ancestors grew on me despite using the same ham-fisted reference.) I think if the plow variant is a resin thing you only get for buying three, I'm out on the FF tank completely. That version at least hides a lot of the face. I still enjoy the Veer-myn - I always found them absurd, anyway - although truthfully I'm more of a fan of the original PVC ones. I think the smoothing out that they received to make them easier to computer model didn't do them any favors. Should have stuck with traditional sculpting.

So far it's just the tunneler for me, unless Mantic do some one-of-everything vehicle bundle that makes the ones I'm less fond of cheaper (without requiring that I buy three of them.)

This KS kind of fails for me since I think I would be mostly interested in the Firefight rules and it appears that those won't be available in beta form anytime soon. Even if I wind up paying more in the long term, I think this is a case where I want to skip the campaign and wait for retail. At that point, I should be able to read reviews of the Firefight rules and judge this whole thing better.

 agnosto wrote:

It also doesn't help that they're signaling that they still have no idea which direction they want to take the rules even making fairly major changes after the launch of the KS which can turn some people off of backing. It bugged me that I got the DZ book and then major changes happened a relatively short time later so I basically paid for beta rules.

Wait, what? What are they doing to the WP rules now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GrimDork wrote:

GCPS should look like that though, they're supposed to be crack/elite soldiers and not just fodder ike the IG/AM often seem to be.

I thought they were just regular soldiers, not elites. Not that that means cannon fodder. I mean, do you consider the US Army to be fodder? The Enforcers already fill the role of s̶p̶a̶c̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶r̶i̶n̶e̶s̶ Elites for "The Corporation".

@Azazelx,

I was referring to hubs, then no hubs, no multi-basing then multi-basing.

I thinks at this point they should at least know which direction they're going to jump with the rules if not outright alpha-tested. Others are making it sound like Firefight hasn't even been started.

Modelwise,
I wish that I were in the market for enforcers because it would be easy to jump in to an army right now and the models aren't bad at all. I was hoping for orx and asterians rather than derfs and space rats but we'll see what happens.

 Paradigm wrote:

Unless those guys in the concept art are a specific unit that are more elite, and the 'line troops' of the faction are moreakin to what we've already seen. In 40k terms, perhaps what we're seeing is Stormtroopers to the Corp guys' IG? Which personally I'm hoping for, as while that design is nice, it's nothing particularly new or different (I could find very similar models from Forge World, Anvil, Spartan when their 28mm Halo comes out) while I think the existing Corp guys are a little different.

If they are the designs for the line troops and they can do a good job of them in HIPS I'd be very happy indeed. None of the alternatives you mention are especially reasonably priced, and that adds up fast. I'd like to be able to build quite a force from troops that look that nice, especially if they manage to do them for $20 for 20 models. You can sign me up for a good 200 of them if they can manage that. How much would 200 Anvil soldiers or FW Elysians cost?

This is what I'm going off, from a few pages into the Warpath 2.0 rulebook:

Well trained and equipped with the best in
military technology, Corporation Troopers
are worth scores of the warriors of less
advanced cultures. The Troopers’ armour is
often invulnerable to the natives’ weapons,
leaving them free to mercilessly mow down
scores of the enemies with pulses from
their laser weaponry. Indeed, a great many
Corporation recruitment videos glory in
human troops slaughtering spear-waving
“savages” for the betterment of the cosmos.
If they encounter heavier resistance, the
Troopers can bring the awesome firepower
of their tanks and walkers to bear. In dire
circumstances an expeditionary commander
may petition Corporation Central to unleash
their most specialised force – the feared
Enforcers – who will quickly dispatch even
the most stubborn of foes.

So elite and heavily geared, not just mass fodder. And not just current/conventional military either, these guys go to other planets and subjugate them by force with fancy laser whatsits and high-tech armor. Then, the Enforcers are *even better than that*.

Obviously the Asterians and Forge Fathers have higher tech, and the plague can rely on sheer brutality, but the above quote is why I've always considered GCPS Marines to be more of a medium/elite troop, and not a baseline grunt.

 agnosto wrote:
@Azazelx,

I was referring to hubs, then no hubs, no multi-basing then multi-basing.

I thinks at this point they should at least know which direction they're going to jump with the rules if not outright alpha-tested. Others are making it sound like Firefight hasn't even been started.

Modelwise,
I wish that I were in the market for enforcers because it would be easy to jump in to an army right now and the models aren't bad at all. I was hoping for orx and asterians rather than derfs and space rats but we'll see what happens.

Ah, fair enough. I think the best rules for WarPath right now are the variant known as Warhammer 40,000 3rd Edition. Maybe Mantic can sort something out, or maybe they can't. Most likely is they come up with something passable to decent and then reboot it/them with a second edition in 2 years as they have done with KoW, DZ, etc...

As for rumours around an AoS reboot for 40k... I can't see it happening. Models and rules for 40k are still selling well. So many dataslates, datafaxes, add-on codices, and everything else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
I kind of love the tunneler. It doesn't look very menacing, but there isn't anywhere to put guns on a drill. Is it a melee vehicle?

I could see using those as S̶q̶u̶a̶t̶ Forge Father vehicles. Old-school EPIC stylings!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:

Pledge manager being open until February with this one is going to be rough on the wallet, I can see this ending up at a $1000 spend for me, especially if there aren't any more Mantic Kickstarters for a while after this.

This timeline would mean that there will be another Mantic KS beginning in January, surely?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GrimDork wrote:
This is what I'm going off, from a few pages into the Warpath 2.0 rulebook:
So elite and heavily geared, not just mass fodder. And not just current/conventional military either, these guys go to other planets and subjugate them by force with fancy laser whatsits and high-tech armor. Then, the Enforcers are *even better than that*.

Obviously the Asterians and Forge Fathers have higher tech, and the plague can rely on sheer brutality, but the above quote is why I've always considered GCPS Marines to be more of a medium/elite troop, and not a baseline grunt.

So, basically the US military then? Better trained, fancy laser whatsits and high-tech armour.

While a "baseline grunt" using that analogy would be more like the Iraqi military, or the military from African nations or places like the Philippines, lots of the Russian military (certain units excepted).. basically second/third world military.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

Unless those guys in the concept art are a specific unit that are more elite, and the 'line troops' of the faction are moreakin to what we've already seen. In 40k terms, perhaps what we're seeing is Stormtroopers to the Corp guys' IG? Which personally I'm hoping for, as while that design is nice, it's nothing particularly new or different (I could find very similar models from Forge World, Anvil, Spartan when their 28mm Halo comes out) while I think the existing Corp guys are a little different.

If they are the designs for the line troops and they can do a good job of them in HIPS I'd be very happy indeed. None of the alternatives you mention are especially reasonably priced, and that adds up fast. I'd like to be able to build quite a force from troops that look that nice, especially if they manage to do them for $20 for 20 models. You can sign me up for a good 200 of them if they can manage that. How much would 200 Anvil soldiers or FW Elysians cost?

That is a very fair point, I was thinking either for Firefight games where you're looking at 30-50 minis (which, while still expensive, is more manageable) or as a painter where if I wanted a design like that to paint up now, there are plenty of options available. I agree that for mass battles or as 40k proxies, HP sprues of those guys would be very handy.

If the advance continues to slow, we'll be entering the Kickstarter phase where Mantic attempts to sweeten the deal to get things going. Like adding a second free vehicle to the main pledge level, for example. And if people respond the way they usually do, the deal will be better, but somehow KS progress will get slower anyway.

This being so, this time Mantic should respond to slow-downs by making the deal progressively worse. Say, raise the price of all add-ons by $10 and the price of all pledge levels by $20, or replace all starter set troopers with old KOW Men-at-Arms. That should get this thing moving in the right direction.

 Vermonter wrote:
If the advance continues to slow, we'll be entering the Kickstarter phase where Mantic attempts to sweeten the deal to get things going. Like adding a second free vehicle to the main pledge level, for example. And if people respond the way they usually do, the deal will be better, but somehow KS progress will get slower anyway.

This being so, this time Mantic should respond to slow-downs by making the deal progressively worse. Say, raise the price of all add-ons by $10 and the price of all pledge levels by $20, or replace all starter set troopers with old KOW Men-at-Arms. That should get this thing moving in the right direction.

With out-of-the-box thinking like this, you will be Mantic's COO in no time.

Should be interesting to see what they do to spark buzz during the doldrums though.

I'd up my pledge if the goal was for Ronnie to do a nudie run through GW HQ, yelling "I got all your warhammers".

Joyboozer wrote:
I'd up my pledge if the goal was for Ronnie to do a nudie run through GW HQ, yelling "I got all your warhammers".

 Azazelx wrote:


This timeline would mean that there will be another Mantic KS beginning in January, surely?

Probably not.

There may be another licensed boxed board game at some point, but much like Mars Attacks, that's one to either pass on or go all-in with, depending on if you like the IP.

Beyond that, the only plans I am aware of for future releases for Mantic's games are ones they are self-funding.

Dreadball is very much "done" for the time being. 25 teams, 59 MVPs total. A good 4-5 months of queued retail releases.
KoW has a lot of mini releases to push to retail, along with a lot of rules expansions, army list books and campaign packs planned. At least three of them in development currently.
Deadzone is in development, not getting another KS for a long time, lots of releases to push to retail.
Dungeon Saga is fully funded, lots and lots of releases still to push to retail.

With the Warpath KS completed, combined with current in-house projects, Mantic will have funded a queue of retail releases well into 2017.

 Vermonter wrote:
If the advance continues to slow, we'll be entering the Kickstarter phase where Mantic attempts to sweeten the deal to get things going. Like adding a second free vehicle to the main pledge level, for example. And if people respond the way they usually do, the deal will be better, but somehow KS progress will get slower anyway.

This being so, this time Mantic should respond to slow-downs by making the deal progressively worse. Say, raise the price of all add-ons by $10 and the price of all pledge levels by $20, or replace all starter set troopers with old KOW Men-at-Arms. That should get this thing moving in the right direction.

If they do add more value to Advanced Warfare, there will be a lot of people going for multiples, especially EB buyers.

The only issue there is that Mantic will be sending out multiple copies of rulebooks, counters and dice, which will kinda be wasted on the people receiving them after a certain point. (I'm considering 6x AW myself currently!).

A good idea at this point would be to offer the option of switching out the rulebooks, counters and dice with another vehicle in any AW pledge.


Or, anything to get it moving, really. $2.4k yesterday was very much "snails pace".

I think they may need to consider lowering the price of their vehicle kits in some fashion. I don't think 1 for $30, or 3 for $75 for the same one (annoyingly exclusive resin bits or no), is their magic KS price point. $30 a pop may be good value compared to whatever GW is charging, but it's not a barnstormer price, and the campaign is starting to look like it could use a big barnstorming item. Yep, something bigger than ten jetbikes, I'm so entitled and awful I actually said it, don't even get you started on entitlement, blah blah blah. $30 for a vehicle is definitely not a price I care to put money on based on concept art alone.

 scarletsquig wrote:

(I'm considering 6x AW myself currently!)

You absolute madman

 Vermonter wrote:
I think they may need to consider lowering the price of their vehicle kits in some fashion. I don't think 1 for $30, or 3 for $75 for the same one (annoyingly exclusive resin bits or no), is their magic KS price point. $30 a pop may be good value compared to whatever GW is charging, but it's not a barnstormer price, and the campaign is starting to look like it could use a big barnstorming item. Yep, something bigger than ten jetbikes, I'm so entitled and awful I actually said it, don't even get you started on entitlement, blah blah blah. $30 for a vehicle is definitely not a price I care to put money on based on concept art alone.

All very true.

I personally don't see myself playing Warpath - even if I wanted to, I would have to provide both forces and beg for an opponent, as there's no gaming scene to speak of anymore locally - but I would like 1 of each vehicle for DZ terrain. Maaaybe the drill-tank could be used for 40k drop pods, but, as you say, we only have a sketch and I don't know how ramshackle they will end up looking, so I'm not going to risk buying a bunch.

Second free vehicle is a good guess. Would be funny if this caused people to drop a lot of the $75 vehicle deals, driving the total down.

 Vermonter wrote:
I think they may need to consider lowering the price of their vehicle kits in some fashion. I don't think 1 for $30, or 3 for $75 for the same one (annoyingly exclusive resin bits or no), is their magic KS price point. $30 a pop may be good value compared to whatever GW is charging, but it's not a barnstormer price, and the campaign is starting to look like it could use a big barnstorming item. Yep, something bigger than ten jetbikes, I'm so entitled and awful I actually said it, don't even get you started on entitlement, blah blah blah. $30 for a vehicle is definitely not a price I care to put money on based on concept art alone.

Same here!

Especially after the Enforcer Dropship turned out to be rather small too.

 scarletsquig wrote:

If they do add more value to Advanced Warfare, there will be a lot of people going for multiples, especially EB buyers.

The only issue there is that Mantic will be sending out multiple copies of rulebooks, counters and dice, which will kinda be wasted on the people receiving them after a certain point. (I'm considering 6x AW myself currently!).

A good idea at this point would be to offer the option of switching out the rulebooks, counters and dice with another vehicle in any AW pledge.

That seems a bit unrealistic. With the EB, you essentially pay $10 for all that junk after accounting for all the miniatures you get. I don't see them swapping it for a $30 vehicle.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:

If they do add more value to Advanced Warfare, there will be a lot of people going for multiples, especially EB buyers.

The only issue there is that Mantic will be sending out multiple copies of rulebooks, counters and dice, which will kinda be wasted on the people receiving them after a certain point. (I'm considering 6x AW myself currently!).

A good idea at this point would be to offer the option of switching out the rulebooks, counters and dice with another vehicle in any AW pledge.

That seems a bit unrealistic. With the EB, you essentially pay $10 for all that junk after accounting for all the miniatures you get. I don't see them swapping it for a $30 vehicle.

That's one way of looking at it. Another would be that the printing costs for those books are much, much higher than the cost of an extra shot from a mould they have tooled already, anyway - and that's before you account for (often international!) shipping where 100 grams of plastic tend to be a lot cheaper than several books.

I've noticed a couple of the old complaints of "models not turning out out like concept art" but I'm trying to figure out if that's still a thing.

KoW 1 had some pretty egregious examples of that. Maybe Dreadball 1 or Deadzone 1?

Has that happened at all in the last two years though? Seems like DBX was dead on. Dungeon Saga's models look 100% like their concepts. And actually the last releases from DZ1, and everything we've seen for DZ2, are dead on as well. KoW 2... my resin Blaine I just got looks like the concept art.

So is it even an issue anymore?

Even the much mocked Greater Elemental/Golem actually looked quite a bit like the concept art.

 judgedoug wrote:
I've noticed a couple of the old complaints of "models not turning out out like concept art" but I'm trying to figure out if that's still a thing.

KoW 1 had some pretty egregious examples of that. Maybe Dreadball 1 or Deadzone 1?

Has that happened at all in the last two years though? Seems like DBX was dead on. Dungeon Saga's models look 100% like their concepts. And actually the last releases from DZ1, and everything we've seen for DZ2, are dead on as well. KoW 2... my resin Blaine I just got looks like the concept art.

So is it even an issue anymore?

I think that they learned that particular lesson after the KoW1 campaign. They've made a great deal of progress lately but I have to say that they've taken a few steps back with the beard tank. The drill is ok to me but that tank is just stupid.

Look Mantic, I know that you've created an "aesthetic" of sorts with the ForgeFathers but please stop doubling down on stupid by making everything have a face and beard. We get it. They're dwarfs in space. We get it. Please stop.

 agnosto wrote:
I think that they learned that particular lesson after the KoW1 campaign. They've made a great deal of progress lately but I have to say that they've taken a few steps back with the beard tank. The drill is ok to me but that tank is just stupid.

Beard Tank concept art is the reason I won't be getting any because I am afraid it will actually turn out like the concept art
Though the tunneler is pretty neat. I used to have a huge IG army for Epic - including termites, moles, hellbore - so I'll get definitely be getting one.

I still think we see some daft decisions. Take the latest Dreadball KS. We have a team made out of clear blue plastic (I forget the name of the race), great not a problem at all. But the MVP? Made out of "standard" grey plastic rather than the clear blue stuff. Just plain stupid.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

Unless those guys in the concept art are a specific unit that are more elite, and the 'line troops' of the faction are moreakin to what we've already seen. In 40k terms, perhaps what we're seeing is Stormtroopers to the Corp guys' IG? Which personally I'm hoping for, as while that design is nice, it's nothing particularly new or different (I could find very similar models from Forge World, Anvil, Spartan when their 28mm Halo comes out) while I think the existing Corp guys are a little different.

If they are the designs for the line troops and they can do a good job of them in HIPS I'd be very happy indeed. None of the alternatives you mention are especially reasonably priced, and that adds up fast. I'd like to be able to build quite a force from troops that look that nice, especially if they manage to do them for $20 for 20 models. You can sign me up for a good 200 of them if they can manage that. How much would 200 Anvil soldiers or FW Elysians cost?

That is a very fair point, I was thinking either for Firefight games where you're looking at 30-50 minis (which, while still expensive, is more manageable) or as a painter where if I wanted a design like that to paint up now, there are plenty of options available. I agree that for mass battles or as 40k proxies, HP sprues of those guys would be very handy.

Even needing 30-50 figures, the price of Anvil or Forgeworld models is pretty significant. 20 quid/US$30 for 10 foot troop guys for Anvil isn't cheap. Elysians are twice that price, plus FW's ridiculous postage and then US people get sales tax dropped on that as well now. Vic's minis cost almost as much as Forge World's at US$50 per squad of 10 (she's located in AU but prices are all in USD$) GW's various Imperial Guard cost between US$30 (Cadians) to US$40 (Various Metal IG squads), and the DFG Eisenkern are very specific and give off a real Space Nazi vibe, no matter how much Mark claims/protests "They're like, WWI Germans, for really" So I really hope that Mantic manage to plug the "somewhat generic sci-fi human trooper" gap in 28mm at a decent quality and price.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vermonter wrote:
I think they may need to consider lowering the price of their vehicle kits in some fashion. I don't think 1 for $30, or 3 for $75 for the same one (annoyingly exclusive resin bits or no), is their magic KS price point. $30 a pop may be good value compared to whatever GW is charging, but it's not a barnstormer price, and the campaign is starting to look like it could use a big barnstorming item. Yep, something bigger than ten jetbikes, I'm so entitled and awful I actually said it, don't even get you started on entitlement, blah blah blah. $30 for a vehicle is definitely not a price I care to put money on based on concept art alone.

I agree. I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the vehicle pricing. It's not even especially good value compared to GW, given that this is KS funded a year out (and the discounted prices you can get the GW kits for).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 judgedoug wrote:
I've noticed a couple of the old complaints of "models not turning out out like concept art" but I'm trying to figure out if that's still a thing.
KoW 1 had some pretty egregious examples of that. Maybe Dreadball 1 or Deadzone 1?
Has that happened at all in the last two years though? Seems like DBX was dead on. Dungeon Saga's models look 100% like their concepts. And actually the last releases from DZ1, and everything we've seen for DZ2, are dead on as well. KoW 2... my resin Blaine I just got looks like the concept art.

So is it even an issue anymore?

Until they actually deliver on and we have that stuff in hand, of course there are going to be trust issues. It's a thing that they brought on themselves, and it'll take time for it to go away. If they held off on this KS until after all that new KoW and DZ2 stuff was in hand, then it might be far less of an issue. But they didn't, so it's still an issue people are concerned about. And the size of that dropship compared to how people pictured it from the artwork really does keep it an ongoing concern. At least we've seen the size of the Enforcer dropship now, but it doesn't help with the beard-tanks or the Mole Tunnelers or the Asterian Dropship or the Corp Tank/whatever.

The enforcer dropship is I believe bigger than a imperial guard flyer plus the ff tank is meant to be bigger than a predator so that may justify the cost slightly.

Yet it only carries 5 guys?

Tunneler does make a good Drop Pod replacement or objective for sci-fi gaming but at $30 I'll pass. If the vehicle deals were 2 for $40 I'd be much more inclined to bite.

So a Valkyrie sized ship (as someone who saw a physical render said) costing $25 is bad value when GW ones are $80? Even $30 if you only buy one vs $80.

The statement of the grey MVP in DBX when the rest of the team is clear blue is a good argument. But this one about vehicles is daft. And possibly worthy of a straight jacket.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So a Valkyrie sized ship (as someone who saw a physical render said) costing $25 is bad value when GW ones are $80? Even $30 if you only buy one vs $80.

The statement of the grey MVP in DBX when the rest of the team is clear blue is a good argument. But this one about vehicles is daft. And possibly worthy of a straight jacket.

Considering the MSRP of that $30 ship will be about $50 - $60, it's a fair comparison since the GW boat will likely be more detailed and have additional sprues of "extras". (note, I don't care about extras but they do cost and are worth something) Also, Valkyries are $53 on Ebay, NIB (plus shipping).

I'm not a GW fanbois by any stretch of the imagination but a good number of the new Mantic products are nudging up against GW level prices at MSRP; not a good or a bad thing, just an observation.

Bikes look cool - be good to see a szie comparison shot of the flyers..............

New Asterian Troops - Pictures specially for Alpharius

 agnosto wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So a Valkyrie sized ship (as someone who saw a physical render said) costing $25 is bad value when GW ones are $80? Even $30 if you only buy one vs $80.

The statement of the grey MVP in DBX when the rest of the team is clear blue is a good argument. But this one about vehicles is daft. And possibly worthy of a straight jacket.

Considering the MSRP of that $30 ship will be about $50 - $60, it's a fair comparison since the GW boat will likely be more detailed and have additional sprues of "extras". (note, I don't care about extras but they do cost and are worth something) Also, Valkyries are $53 on Ebay, NIB (plus shipping).

I'm not a GW fanbois by any stretch of the imagination but a good number of the new Mantic products are nudging up against GW level prices at MSRP; not a good or a bad thing, just an observation.

The thing is its $30 now or 3 for $75, which is a great deal compared to the $53 ebay price of the Valkyrie (if your happy to wait the 11 months) plus nobody knows the rrp for the kit and even then there will be discounts to have online plus mantic do bundle deals that save money unlike gw.

Older kits add ons to fund them - Enforcers have never been so cheap and damn I just spent £36 on 20 Enforcers (but they do have defender parts and used store credit I had so technically they were free right )

 judgedoug wrote:
I've noticed a couple of the old complaints of "models not turning out out like concept art" but I'm trying to figure out if that's still a thing.

KoW 1 had some pretty egregious examples of that. Maybe Dreadball 1 or Deadzone 1?

Has that happened at all in the last two years though? Seems like DBX was dead on. Dungeon Saga's models look 100% like their concepts. And actually the last releases from DZ1, and everything we've seen for DZ2, are dead on as well. KoW 2... my resin Blaine I just got looks like the concept art.

So is it even an issue anymore?

The Giant Obsidian Golem has proportions and texturing completely out of whack with the artwork. Valandor changed dramatically from his KS appearance, although there was artwork to support his new look, even if that artwork was not the artwork we paid to produce into a miniature during the campaign. I forget if the new art was available to view for the pledge manager.

Some very good pricing on those add ons, pretty much all good value compared to retail (the Forge Guard are about on par), and the 4 for $x amount are even better. These deals will get me to pledge at the $1 plus add ons route.

Really like the Asterian renders on the previous page, hopefully this stretch goal will get the total raised rolling again.

 Polonius wrote:
Even the much mocked Greater Elemental/Golem actually looked quite a bit like the concept art.

Only in the way that the Imaginext Millennium Falcon looks like the studio model of the Millennium Falcon. The details are there but the proportions destroy the aesthetics.

A bit of other news from the comments FF Valkyr squads aren't possible as an add on due to how the current molds are set up they share a mold with several other figures they might be doable in metal but they seem to be thinking of a complete resculpt at some later date.

Asterian Sky Razors aren't as big an issue as they have most of a mold to themselves so it might be possible to do a squad deal and just throw in the extra minis on the mold for free - it's cost dependent.

The Asterian Tank/Transport is already sculpted.

This doesn't look Valkyrie-sized to me.

 agnosto wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So a Valkyrie sized ship (as someone who saw a physical render said) costing $25 is bad value when GW ones are $80? Even $30 if you only buy one vs $80.

The statement of the grey MVP in DBX when the rest of the team is clear blue is a good argument. But this one about vehicles is daft. And possibly worthy of a straight jacket.

Considering the MSRP of that $30 ship will be about $50 - $60, it's a fair comparison since the GW boat will likely be more detailed and have additional sprues of "extras". (note, I don't care about extras but they do cost and are worth something) Also, Valkyries are $53 on Ebay, NIB (plus shipping).

I'm not a GW fanbois by any stretch of the imagination but a good number of the new Mantic products are nudging up against GW level prices at MSRP; not a good or a bad thing, just an observation.

So $25 vs $53 is still a good deal. Unless you're comparing full price Mantic ship ($50-60) vs discounted GW, which is an unfair comparison. It's an unfair comparison between ANY two companies, one at full price, one at discount.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


This doesn't look Valkyrie-sized to me.

Ah no that doesn't - :(

What if we just don't feel a Mantic plastic vehicle is likely to be worth $30?

Forget GW for a second. There are plenty of other options, and we have a pretty good idea of the number and quality of the frills to expect from Mantic. $35-40 at retail is cool because we know there will be discounts, and we will be able to see before we buy. For a kickstarter, $30 each just doesn't come across well for a variety of reasons.

Doesn't the Valkyrie have a clear canopy and a detailed cockpit and pilot? And door gunners and at least a rough interior for the passenger area?

That really shows a level of detail way past what I am seeing in the Mantic dropship. You can argue you don't need that detail to play the game, but you can't really argue that for many modelers that level of detail is a Good Thing and has value. Comparing a completely closed off/no interior model to one with an interior and expecting the same cost is also not fair.

 CptJake wrote:
Doesn't the Valkyrie have a clear canopy and a detailed cockpit and pilot? And door gunners and at least a rough interior for the passenger area?

So you're suggesting a more fair comparison would be to a simpler, less detailed miniature with a less grounded aesthetic?



How much does that cost, again?

Regarding size, Mantic have shrunken pilots to produce vehicles smaller than could actually be used by 28mm figures in the past. Striders and Valkyrs, namely, both of which have pilots much smaller than the average soldier in their army. Sounds like they're thinking about reworking the Valkyrs, at least. Open-air vehicles where the driver's entire body is exposed like Goblin Guntracks, Orx buggies, FF Quad cannons, and Asterian Sky Razors have, on the other hand, kept in scale with the rest of the army.

Things like that 20 for $20 Steel Warriors pack seem like a better option for me, who tends to have *loads* of Deadzone bits and pieces, than the $120 pledge levels, or indeed any theoretical tyrant equivalent ones.

Mostly because my flat doesn't exactly have infinite space...

Is there a list, anywhere that shows exhaustively what each model is (or going to be) made of?

Forge Fathers:
Model A : Restic
Model B: Plastic
Model C: hybrid metal/plastic

etc..

I'd love to back this but I dont need anymore restic in my life.

The 2 on the right have the troop compartment the one on the left the missile variant.

I wouldn't use that image to judge the size it's likely that they only have 1 resin print painted for now and photoshoped in 3. The jetbikes are more obviously photoshoped as one is over a kerb but isn't leaning as a result.

It looks deeper/taller in that picture but that's still nowhere near a Valkyrie. Valkyries are massive phenomenal models with a load of detail. I bought them when the MSRP was a good deal lower too. Valkyries were also about $120 when they were a FW resin kit so price/value/etc are fairly subjective, especially when you can also get 1/48 helicopters for $15-$20 with loads more detail. Value is where the consumer places it, for me.. either $20 or 2 for $40 if they need to go that route is what would hook me in.

 DaveC wrote:
I wouldn't use that image to judge the size it's likely that they only have 1 resin print painted for now and photoshoped in 3. The jetbikes are more obviously photoshoped as one is over a kerb but isn't leaning as a result.

Fair enough I must admit I'm not actually getting any from the ks, the veermyn tunneler is a much better deal, I think with the free one I can get in adv. Warfare and the 3.5 you get from the battalion I can make 1 standard sized one and 2 extended ones, with the left over drill bits been used possibility for an emerging/wrecked one.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So a Valkyrie sized ship (as someone who saw a physical render said) costing $25 is bad value when GW ones are $80? Even $30 if you only buy one vs $80.

The statement of the grey MVP in DBX when the rest of the team is clear blue is a good argument. But this one about vehicles is daft. And possibly worthy of a straight jacket.

Considering the MSRP of that $30 ship will be about $50 - $60, it's a fair comparison since the GW boat will likely be more detailed and have additional sprues of "extras". (note, I don't care about extras but they do cost and are worth something) Also, Valkyries are $53 on Ebay, NIB (plus shipping).

I'm not a GW fanbois by any stretch of the imagination but a good number of the new Mantic products are nudging up against GW level prices at MSRP; not a good or a bad thing, just an observation.

So $25 vs $53 is still a good deal. Unless you're comparing full price Mantic ship ($50-60) vs discounted GW, which is an unfair comparison. It's an unfair comparison between ANY two companies, one at full price, one at discount.

That wasn't my intent, no; I'm just saying that KS pricing is not an indicator of discount pricing or RRP and Mantic has been raising their prices of late so $50 or $60 for the ship isn't out of the question at RRP vs. an $80 Valkyrie. Sure, it's cheaper but I'd have to see what all is included and how big it is to determine if it's of good value or not. Pics make it look much smaller than a Valkyrie, a little bigger than a stormtalon?

It's good to see the Asterians make an appearance.

 DaveC wrote:
New Asterian Troops - Pictures specially for Alpharius

Spoiler:

Thanks Dave!

Is everything in that Asterian Battlegroup HIPs?

Kalyshi = metal
Sky Razor, Cyphers, Overseer, Weapon Drones = Restic
New Infantry = HIPS

Currently I'm thinking of waiting on pledging for vehicles and just pledge for figures during the KS campaign, then add vehicles after if things look promising.

Mantic have won my trust on hard plastic figures. I'm very happy with my Plague Zombies, Enforcers, and Peacekeepers, and honestly am not concerned about potential disappointment with Asterian drones or Plague 3rd Gens. The point is moot if I were only going in for $1 anyway, but I prefer to pledge as much up front as possible to help move the campaign forward.

As far as Mantic's hard plastic vehicles go, even though those should be easier (?) than small detailed figures, I don't know yet. Mantic did a great job on the Deadzone terrain, but I wasn't entirely pleased with the quality of the Mars Attacks robot or saucer. Those were "good enough," especially given the lighter subject matter and the good pricing (bundled, at least), but not really up to the standard that I'd want for Warpath. Mostly I'm not a fan of the big obvious seams on the robot's arms, which I'd like to get rid of but am not sure I'll be able to. No one who has posted an image of a painted one has yet, to my knowledge.

 DaveC wrote:
Kalyshi = metal
Sky Razor, Cyphers, Overseer, Weapon Drones = Restic
New Infantry = HIPS

That's a lot of restic.

I didn't really like the DZ Asterians in restic - what are the odds that it is better now?

I would imagine they're the same still. I don't think they've changed them at all.

 Alpharius wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Kalyshi = metal
Sky Razor, Cyphers, Overseer, Weapon Drones = Restic
New Infantry = HIPS

That's a lot of restic.

I didn't really like the DZ Asterians in restic - what are the odds that it is better now?

The restic Asterians here are the exact models produced in the DZ1 KS so if you didn't like them then, odds are you won't like them now.